[BaggiePhil]

Genuine question aimed at no one in particular. Or even just an observation. Has anyone actually suggested Carlos Corberan IS beyond criticism? I only ask as it's getting a little tiring reading that he isn't when this is a football forum and criticism is pretty much a given  .

Opinion is fine. Moaning for the sake of moaning is tiresome and boring. Corboran is just the latest to be Kvetching about. It was the Palmer before ( always a firm favourite of the glass half full brigade) Before that furlong. I can even remember Mowatt on the end of some stick for a while. Disappointment and frustration with football is a given.

[OldburyWBA]

Opinion is fine. Moaning for the sake of moaning is tiresome and boring. Corboran is just the latest to get the boo boy treatment. It was the goalkeeper before ( always a firm favourite of the glass half full brigade) Before that furlong. I can even remember Mowatt on the end of some stick for a while. Disappointment and frustration with football is a given.

Can we not get into the "boo boy" stuff when people have a differing opinion, its the same as the other side being the "happy clapper" stuff.

[BaggiePhil]

If we just consider Champ managers in a job then I would say:

Farke, Edwards and Parker all have promotions from this league.
W
Robins, Carrick and Rohl are all decent IMO.

If we were recruiting and they were available then I'm sure they'd all jump at the job. I'd expect any of these to get ums into the top 6. It's a tough league but quality wise a poor one for me.

I'm not anti CC but I also do not believe that he's the st in this league or that no one else could do better.

what makes you think  they would jump at a job where the club only has enough money to buy 2 players. Blues spent 3 times what we did in total on one player. When CC leaves us, which I hope won't be for some time he will go to a much more prosperous and probably a Premier League club. I'm all for criticising Albion managers where it's merited. Pardew and Bruce spring to mind as managers received my ire.

[BaggiePhil]

Can we not get into the "boo boy" stuff when people have a differing opinion, its the same as the other side being the "happy clapper" stuff.

I've swapped boo boys for kvetching

[SmethDan]

Piece on Carlos courtesy of Radio WM, the wonderfully named Nick Mashiter and taken from the BBC's sports page. Spoiler alert. This will be a bit long for some; especially if read in a Spanish accent. Collective seeds planted in minds  .

'Carlos Corberan has vowed to keep chasing his West Brom dream as he marks his two-year anniversary as manager.

The Spaniard celebrates his milestone at The Hawthorns on Friday as he aims to return the Baggies to the Premier League.

Since 2000, only Tony Mowbray and Gary Megson have managed to go into a third year in charge at The Hawthorns.

Corberan replaced Steve Bruce with Albion 23rd in the Championship, eventually guiding them to ninth in 2022-23. Last season they lost in the play-off semi-finals to Southampton.

Albion are currently fourth, three points behind second-placed Burnley, ahead of Saturday's visit of Cardiff City, having been relegated from the top flight in 2021.

"It’s not easy. I know what my dream is. I know where I want to put West Bromwich Albion," Corberan told BBC Radio WM. "I'm not always going to be able to achieve what I want to achieve but I will make my best. If I don’t achieve, I will learn.

"I know the love I have for this club and for every single fan I meet after the games, for every single one that travels to support us and when you love them, the only thing you want is to give your best to them.

“I would love to give to them exactly what they want to achieve because where they want the club to be, I want to see too. I don’t know if I will achieve it one day or not, but I can promise I am going to put my life there to achieve it.”

It is hardly surprising given Corberan worked with Marcelo Bielsa at Leeds for two years as Under-23s coach, the Argentine's work ethic has rubbed off on the 41-year-old.

He had to work hard and clever as for the first year he did not pay a transfer fee but the club's trajectory changed when owner Shilen Patel, a Florida-based investor who has previously been involved as a minority stakeholder in Italian club Bologna, bought the Baggies from Guochuan Lai earlier this year.

“The first thing that they did was listen to everyone, understand them, analyse their job, and respect them," Corberan added.

"So, they have respect and they have added their level of ideas, football knowledge and organisation ideas. This club has grown, even still with financial restrictions, the club for me is growing in a good direction.

“We haven’t seen everything that Shilen wants to do in this club because he has had restrictions and a short space of time but if I am a fan, I would be excited about the things he has in mind."

Corberan was linked with the Burnley job before Scott Parker was appointed in the summer, with Leeds also been reportedly interested in tempting him back to Elland Road last year.

That led to a new contract, committing him to Albion until 2027, but the ex-Huddersfield and Olympiakos manager feels uneasy with the interest.

"When I am linked with clubs, I feel in one way uncomfortable for our fans because it’s not comfortable for me," he said. "I am happy these things appear because this is the consequence that we are doing good things.

“After a disastrous season nobody wants you as a coach. When people say they want you it’s because you have done a good job in your club.

“My most important target is to make my best job here. I consider that more of a positive thing, than a negative thing; knowing that can be uncomfortable for the people that doesn’t know you or know your targets."

Carlos Corberan was speaking on a BBC Radio WM special - listen to it here on BBC Sounds.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c3wq6g9w4z2o

[smethwickw]

what makes you think  they would jump at a job where the club only has enough money to buy 2 players. Blues spent 3 times what we did in total on one player. When CC leaves us, which I hope won't be for some time he will go to a much more prosperous and probably a Premier League club. I'm all for criticising Albion managers where it's merited. Pardew and Bruce spring to mind as managers received my ire.

We are still an attractive club regardless of our recent issues. Good history and fan base and now have stable owners. Managers would definitely be interested IMO. The only way CC manages in the Prem in the near future will be if he takes us up. I can't see that happening and don't see a top flight club taking a chance on him either. Leeds are possibly the best he could hope for if they get rid of Farke.

[KN22]

Dan, I listened to the special on WM, an hour long interview with Steve Herman. It was very interesting. Clearly CC is a highly intelligent guy who lives and breathes football. Equally clear is his passion for managing our great club. He’s is not perfect, who is?
This is a project and we are nowhere near the completion of it. Why ditch him now when he is so integral to the plan? The £4m that keeps being raised by one poster would not begin to change my view. One quarter of what we paid for Grant? Yes, that’s worth taking!! 

[timdon]

Dan, I listened to the special on WM, an hour long interview with Steve Herman. It was very interesting. Clearly CC is a highly intelligent guy who lives and breathes football. Equally clear is his passion for managing our great club. He’s is not perfect, who is?
This is a project and we are nowhere near the completion of it. Why ditch him now when he is so integral to the plan? The £4m that keeps being raised by one poster would not begin to change my view. One quarter of what we paid for Grant? Yes, that’s worth taking!! 

Exactly right. This is very much a plan in progress. Us fans aren't known for our patience, but this is one situation where patience is going to be obligatory. CC has been a crucial cog in the wheel, inheriting a club pretty much in crisis, guiding us to safety, then taking us into the play offs, now working with a minus budget and still doing well. He has already done an exceptionally good job by any measure, he isn't going to be sacked barring a catastrophic demise, and is very much part of the owners' vision from what I have read. So patient we must be, hard though that may be for some.

[zippyandbungle]

Genuine question aimed at no one in particular. Or even just an observation. Has anyone actually suggested Carlos Corberan IS beyond criticism? I only ask as it's getting a little tiring reading that he isn't when this is a football forum and criticism is pretty much a given  .

There have definitely been posts on here stating that “we should stick with him regardless”,and countless excuses used like…”he’s not Bruce”,”he hasn’t had any transfer budget”which are alluding that maybe he shouldn’t be criticised because …

It’s the stubbornness and strange decisions that get me,and this week it feels like many more are voicing similar concerns.
Smash Cardiff tomorrow and the noise obviously lessons…but if they win …oh dear.

[NJS]

We are still an attractive club regardless of our recent issues. Good history and fan base and now have stable owners. Managers would definitely be interested IMO. The only way CC manages in the Prem in the near future will be if he takes us up. I can't see that happening and don't see a top flight club taking a chance on him either. Leeds are possibly the best he could hope for if they get rid of Farke.

We're currently the third club by position and by average attendances (9th in championship) in a seemingly unfashionable region .  As regards football, in these times the lens of history is very myopic  and maybe covers the 5 to 10 previous seasons.  I don't think that managers would be falling over themselves to come to the Hawthorns unless like Bruce they would not get a gig with any other Championship side.

[baggiemart]

what makes you think  they would jump at a job where the club only has enough money to buy 2 players. Blues spent 3 times what we did in total on one player. When CC leaves us, which I hope won't be for some time he will go to a much more prosperous and probably a Premier League club. I'm all for criticising Albion managers where it's merited. Pardew and Bruce spring to mind as managers received my ire.

   Why do you think a premier club would want Carlos.  Let's face it he hasn't achieved anything yet in the championship. Getting 2 sides to the play offs is not the sort of achievement which will bring premier league clubs come knocking on the door. There are more managers in this league that have achieved a lot more.  I don't think it will be a case of CC leaving us it will probably be a case of CC being sacked by us.

I think he has done a great job so far but we have got be looking on improving on last season. For me that means automatic promotion anything less is at best standing still. Not making the play offs is a failure. On our current form that is a very realistic possiblity.  The squad we have we should be pushing for automatic . However, with the likes of teams like Burnley, Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Leeds, Sheffield United and Norwich, making the play offs will be tough.

[timdon]

There have definitely been posts on here stating that “we should stick with him regardless”,and countless excuses used like…”he’s not Bruce”,”he hasn’t had any transfer budget”which are alluding that maybe he shouldn’t be criticised because …

It’s the stubbornness and strange decisions that get me,and this week it feels like many more are voicing similar concerns.
Smash Cardiff tomorrow and the noise obviously lessons…but if they win …oh dear.

Yes, it was me who said that, but you have quoted me only in part to suit your argument, and I think you know it. . For context, the full sentence was "I would keep him regardless of results this season, yes, unless we find ourselves in the bottom 6.", which is somewhat different to saying it without the bit in bold

[zippyandbungle]

Yes, it was me who said that, but you have quoted me only in part to suit your argument, and I think you know it. . For context, the full sentence was "I would keep him regardless of results this season, yes, unless we find ourselves in the bottom 6.", which is somewhat different to saying it without the bit in bold

There have been more than one person to say it,sorry if that means you aren’t special 😃

[caravanc58]

Can you give any examples of how we have become more cautious? We've become less clinical and certainly failed to create, but that does mean we are being cautious. The Swansea game wasn't exactly scintillating but it was a professional result determined by one piece of great skill from Maja to set up Molumby.

There are certainly reasons to worry about the last five games: we are not a free-flowing, but most teams aren't - football is a game of trade-offs, the more you attack the more open you are, the more risk there is of being done on the counter. We're about midtable for goals scored, but 4th for goals against, and three of those came vs Wednesday (one deflection, one keeper error, one actual goal). For those that care, we are also underperforming our xG by about two goals - we should have scored 15, which could have converted a couple of the last few results from losses to draws, or draws to wins.

At the beginning of the season I had us in mid-table, and then at the end of the window I had us winning the play-offs. The results recently haven't been good but this notion that CC is the second coming of Pulis or Ismael is so far off the mark in my opinion. I hear people bemoaning a lack of plan B. If plan B was any good, it would be plan A. What exactly is our squad set up to do differently? We don't have a target man to lump balls into the box, and most Championship defenders will eat that up.

I think it's clear from the players in our back line that we want to be a bigger threat from set-pieces, and that has to be something to work on moving forward. You don't play a 6-4 guy at left back and not have a thought as to the benefits in both boxes.

I hear people bemoaning a lack of plan B. If plan B was any good, it would be plan A. What exactly is our squad set up to do differently? We don't have a target man to lump balls into the box, and most Championship defenders will eat that up.

Plan A = 4 wheels on a car.
Plan B = 1 spare wheel in the boot.
Your in a better position if you have a plan B when part of plan A goes wrong. Plan B may not be better than plan A that's why it's plan B not A,but it can get you out of trouble occasionally.

The reason we don't ever have a target man to pump balls into the box at is because Corberan
doesn't feel the need to find a spot for the tallest striker at the club in Devante Cole.
Could've been useful at Blackburn in the 91st minute.

 

[baggiebof]

Mark W - there is a clear difference for me in how we managed the games from the first 5 or so to the last 4 or so. There is no one thing i point too, it's from viewing the games with my eyes and comparing them to previous games viewed through same eyes lens.

I'm with Mark here, I'm not so sure that there is much difference other than how teams are setting up against us and a bit of confidence/variance with finishing.

The first two games of the season we had 7 and 8 shots respectively, in both games we went ahead with plenty of time to go and (evidenced by the shot count) played risk averse. Sure, vs QPR we got a third but we didn't go all guns blazing to get it.

[gazberg]

I'm with Mark here, I'm not so sure that there is much difference other than how teams are setting up against us and a bit of confidence/variance with finishing.

The first two games of the season we had 7 and 8 shots respectively, in both games we went ahead with plenty of time to go and (evidenced by the shot count) played risk averse. Sure, vs QPR we got a third but we didn't go all guns blazing to get it.

Fair enough, it's your right to disagree. I'm going to stick by my statement. It's all about opinions

[SmethDan]

There have definitely been posts on here stating that “we should stick with him regardless”,and countless excuses used like…”he’s not Bruce”,”he hasn’t had any transfer budget”which are alluding that maybe he shouldn’t be criticised because …

It’s the stubbornness and strange decisions that get me,and this week it feels like many more are voicing similar concerns.
Smash Cardiff tomorrow and the noise obviously lessons…but if they win …oh dear.

Right. So you can't recall anyone posting 'he is beyond criticism' which was the question/observation? Thought not. Me neither. Clearly neither of us are all that special. Tell you what though, there's some genuinely special posts on this thread over the last couple of weeks and days in particular.

Never mind, I bet you're rubbing your hands at the prospect of polishing your rocks if we don't smash Cardiff tomorrow. God forbid if we do though. You'll only be able to moan about Carlos not reading your posts sooner....... that and how victory's down to you of course  .

[the other AJ]

It’s a dip in form for sure but nothing to go making drastic decisions over.
Yes there’s been some odd subs.
Yes Carlos isn’t perfect and not beyond criticism at all.
However, he got this club out of the brown stuff and for that alone I for one am 100% in his camp.
Also worth noting that some of our first teamers have not been performing recently either….

[timdon]

There have been more than one person to say it,sorry if that means you aren’t special 😃

Well, I think that is a figment of your imagination, unless you would like to prove me wrong and actually show me one.

[Blowee]

For me our problems are still that CC hasn’t got the players needed to play in the way that he wants week in week out for 90 minutes+. With the exception of Heggem we are no better off in terms of the squad from last season. Last season we were playoffs on merit but ultimately not good enough to be promoted. Currently we are fourth and that’s probably about where we should be.

[zippyandbungle]

Abject
He has no idea what to do
I would be happier if he now leaves.

[beechyboy90]

People are beginning to turn. I am not suggesting we need to part ways but I'm definitely questioning whether replacing him solves some of our issues.

He won't change tactics just personnel it reminds me of the end under Ismael. Still no Cole or an attempt to go 2 up top. Fellows on for Johnston but not played together is madness (if they both play and teams double up on both there would be a lot of space elsewhere- only playing one is easier to defend against) in form Grant unceremoniously dropped. Swift and Diangana poor (Grady suddenly burst into life then was hooked)

[gazberg]

People are beginning to turn. I am not suggesting we need to part ways but I'm definitely questioning whether replacing him solves some of our issues.

He won't change tactics just personnel it reminds me of the end under Ismael. Still no Cole or an attempt to go 2 up top. Fellows on for Johnston but not played together is madness (if they both play and teams double up on both there would be a lot of space elsewhere- only playing one is easier to defend against) in form Grant unceremoniously dropped. Swift and Diangana poor (Grady suddenly burst into life then was hooked)

His tactics don't suit these players and vice versa for me. Something will have to give.

[miggybaggy]

People are beginning to turn. I am not suggesting we need to part ways but I'm definitely questioning whether replacing him solves some of our issues.

He won't change tactics just personnel it reminds me of the end under Ismael. Still no Cole or an attempt to go 2 up top. Fellows on for Johnston but not played together is madness (if they both play and teams double up on both there would be a lot of space elsewhere- only playing one is easier to defend against) in form Grant unceremoniously dropped. Swift and Diangana poor (Grady suddenly burst into life then was hooked)

I posted a comment after the Blackburn game that this (Cardiff) game would be massive for CC to slow down the growing and damaging lack of confidence in him from our (largely) loyal fan base. Well, he isn't helping himself is he? Leaving Grant and Fellows out for such a long time is just crazy in my eyes, the only time we look a threat is when they're involved.

[robnewbold]

I would play Fellows and Johnston together, i thought that was the plan, tie up four defenders and expose the opposition centre, allowing our midfielders more space to be more direct.
But what do I know.
From an armchair i am still a Carlos believer, but I can clearly see that from the stands, where fans have to pay hard earned cash to watch, the belief is beginning to wear thin.
 I thought we changed our name from Strollers a long time ago, but it appears to have made somewhat of a comeback.
But something definitely has to change......anything.