Author Topic: Carlos Corberan (Appointed Valencia CF Manager 25/12/24)  (Read 480880 times)

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SmethDan

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3625 on: October 24, 2024, 07:07:49 PM »
I don’t think that is what he is thinking,but if it is then it’s one hell of a risk.
It would also be a massive change from the pretty cautious approach of the last 5-6 games in to all out attack….
I’m not surprised people are getting fed up of it…again I wouldn’t pull the trigger yet,but I’d have a word and I’d want know what goes through his mind with 9 subs no striker,and bringing Wallace in for 1 minute .

And I'm not remotely surprised you don't want to pull the trigger on him yet. Not after all the time and effort that's gone into highly polishing the pile of rocks you're absolutely gagging to sling in his immediate direction  ;) .
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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3626 on: October 24, 2024, 07:18:06 PM »
Yeah I think we could do a lot worse than Corberan at this level.

Having said that, since our new owners have came in, I think we're less dependent on him. I do wonder whether they're unhappy with his use of our new signings. Heggem aside, they haven't really featured apart from the odd cameo and Racic.

zippyandbungle

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3627 on: October 24, 2024, 07:31:40 PM »
And I'm not remotely surprised you don't want to pull the trigger on him yet. Not after all the time and effort that's gone into highly polishing the pile of rocks you're absolutely gagging to sling in his immediate direction  ;) .
Then you’d be wrong
I have said repeatedly I’d much rather he does what he does but sees that there needs to be some flexibility and usage of the full toolkit at his disposal.
But all opinions isn’t it
If youre going to get told off, get told off for doing something not for doing nothing..

SmethDan

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3628 on: October 24, 2024, 07:53:23 PM »
Then you’d be wrong
I have said repeatedly I’d much rather he does what he does but sees that there needs to be some flexibility and usage of the full toolkit at his disposal.
But all opinions isn’t it

No I'm not.

You'd love it too  ;D .

You'd absolutely love it  ;) .
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If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
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lewisant

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3629 on: October 24, 2024, 08:16:24 PM »
I’m actually am completely perplexed by calls for his head or people not being fussed. He’s not free of criticism and for me the frustration is a lack of Cole on the bench and Wallace on it and getting on the pitch.

I’ve seen someone say we haven’t pushed on from next year but is that the expectation? Surely if we get play-offs again that’s the realistic target. Also we’re 4th and 3 points off a two points a game average.

Last night was a labour of love for 60 mins BUT within that 60 mins we should’ve scored and the chances fell to two players that none of us would be dropping…so that’s on Corberan is it? Last half hour Grady moved to the right and we have Johnston and Swift on and we were looking far better. Should’ve had a penalty. It was a poor game but Blackburn had won all 5 previous home games.

We’ve not seen a lot of the noobs asides from Heggem and Racic but we have to remember that Corberan probably wanted these new signings in because it is a VERY long season and look back to our injuries last year a squad has been assembled to prepare for the worst. They will be used over the 46 game season.
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Standaman

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3630 on: October 24, 2024, 09:09:11 PM »
I hope that the owners aren't as trigger happy as some of our fans are. Where we are as a club is in no small part of short term knee jerk appointments which in some instances worked but for the most part did not and each cycle has left the squad more disjointed, older and less fit for purpose.

At the very least the owners have to let this season unfold before taking stock of the situation.
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CL3MO

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3631 on: October 24, 2024, 09:14:12 PM »
The Cardiff game is massive now for CC. The fans are turning in increasing numbers.

This is hyperbole - the fans aren't exactly pleased with the football or lack of goals but huge numbers recognise the amazing job he has done and fully support him, there's no doubt.

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3632 on: October 24, 2024, 09:46:27 PM »
This is hyperbole - the fans aren't exactly pleased with the football or lack of goals but huge numbers recognise the amazing job he has done and fully support him, there's no doubt.

He is OK at the moment. I like KC and the Sunshine Gang.If he becomes a "stick in the mud" he needs to either reconsider or go.


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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3633 on: October 25, 2024, 06:56:51 AM »
I obviously can't speak for everyone but I do think there's something about our fast start and the subsequent drop off that is making people think more negatively at the moment. Over a prolonged period, Corberan has shown he can have us running at a level that would usually get us in the playoffs; for a club with a squad in transition and without the resources of some of the other clubs in the league, that will do me.

Of course he is not beyond criticism, that's what this forum is for, but any talk of him going or being under pressure is extremely premature and in my view, undeserved.

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3634 on: October 25, 2024, 09:32:51 AM »
I obviously can't speak for everyone but I do think there's something about our fast start and the subsequent drop off that is making people think more negatively at the moment. Over a prolonged period, Corberan has shown he can have us running at a level that would usually get us in the playoffs; for a club with a squad in transition and without the resources of some of the other clubs in the league, that will do me.

Of course he is not beyond criticism, that's what this forum is for, but any talk of him going or being under pressure is extremely premature and in my view, undeserved.
The voice of reason, is this a blip? Only time will tell, if it is all well and good, if not then any club will consider options. There was always going to be blips, as SUPPORTERS we should get behind CC and the club and do anything we can to bring things back on course.
Does any of this preclude comment or criticism? Absolutely not.
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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3635 on: October 25, 2024, 09:41:34 AM »
There has been a lot to like about CC but his style is boring and rather negative. If he refuses to play on the front foot and take risks, even at home then he’ll do himself out of a job. Whilst his job is to get us winning he also has a duty to entertain. We’re neither winning or being entertained. He has a good enough squad to be top six or top 2. If the current style of play and lack of points return continues he’ll be gone soon. The new owners haven’t bought us to watch the nonesense that is currently being served up.

HampshireBaggie

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3636 on: October 25, 2024, 09:45:14 AM »
I actually remember feeling exactly about the same about the team this time last year. We had just drawn 0-0 at home to Plymouth and we were hovering around mid table.

This season we've had a noticeably better start so we are sitting in 4th. If we can start a run like we did this time last year that took us up to the christmas break, Starting tomorrow, we would be challenging for the top 2!

While i am feeling as despondent as the rest, all is not lost.

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3637 on: October 25, 2024, 09:50:46 AM »

People have their opinions and are free to express them. Bilkul will decide whether he's the man for the job or not in the end. I don't see any PL teams coming in for him myself but who knows.

Of course, dont think anyone has said no one is free to express them. the same way mine is its madness to consider moving him on.

no one is perfect and Corberan isnt, but i honestly dont think there is a better manager out there that would take this job.

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3638 on: October 25, 2024, 10:22:53 AM »
I’ve commented previously (or may have been on twitter) that the trouble with Corberan’s football is the same as when we had Pulis. It’s great (tolerable) when results are good but as soon as the results steady and the negative football turns to draws the knives start sharpening. Personally he should be under no pressure at all but questions should always be asked especially with some of his selections. People need to remember saying he may have got that wrong doesn’t mean ‘he’s gorrrrraaa gooooo’

lewisant

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3639 on: October 25, 2024, 10:41:52 AM »
I’ve commented previously (or may have been on twitter) that the trouble with Corberan’s football is the same as when we had Pulis. It’s great (tolerable) when results are good but as soon as the results steady and the negative football turns to draws the knives start sharpening. Personally he should be under no pressure at all but questions should always be asked especially with some of his selections. People need to remember saying he may have got that wrong doesn’t mean ‘he’s gorrrrraaa gooooo’

I’ve considered the same myself however the performances are nowhere near Pulis territory. I hated his time in charge of the club, even when the results were ok.
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gazberg

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3640 on: October 25, 2024, 10:47:52 AM »
I obviously can't speak for everyone but I do think there's something about our fast start and the subsequent drop off that is making people think more negatively at the moment. Over a prolonged period, Corberan has shown he can have us running at a level that would usually get us in the playoffs; for a club with a squad in transition and without the resources of some of the other clubs in the league, that will do me.

Of course he is not beyond criticism, that's what this forum is for, but any talk of him going or being under pressure is extremely premature and in my view, undeserved.



For me it's because he started this season less cautious and we picked up results. He then reverted to having us play cautious and the results/PPG dropped off.


I don't care how pragmatic we are as long as the results prove the system up.


I'd be happy to watch us win 40 out of 46 games 1-0 with the most turgid football going as long as it's effective.

It's currently not effective and he won't make the changes he could easily make which is where my ftrustration comes from.




Of course, dont think anyone has said no one is free to express them. the same way mine is its madness to consider moving him on.

no one is perfect and Corberan isnt, but i honestly dont think there is a better manager out there that would take this job.


There doesn't need to be a better manager, if we got 4m for him and the club could not find a similar level manager with that 4m without cash to spare i'd very worried personally.

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3641 on: October 25, 2024, 11:00:36 AM »
I do have faith in CC to achieve a playoff place but simply down to the fact that he will just do enough to get us there in what is a poor league. I could not see us beating any of the top teams in the play offs however with his approach to games. I don't buy this nonsense that there is no one better out there that could do a good or even better job here either. There are plenty of decent managers about. All I ask is that CC becomes a bit more flexible and shows that he does have some tactical nous.

At least on here we can debate in a civil manner. I left a FB group yesterday as anyone that dared question the 'future Champions League manager' was called a Dingle or told to go down the Villa.

BaggiePhil

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3642 on: October 25, 2024, 11:24:50 AM »


For me it's because he started this season less cautious and we picked up results. He then reverted to having us play cautious and the results/PPG dropped off.


I don't care how pragmatic we are as long as the results prove the system up.


I'd be happy to watch us win 40 out of 46 games 1-0 with the most turgid football going as long as it's effective.

It's currently not effective and he won't make the changes he could easily make which is where my ftrustration comes from.





There doesn't need to be a better manager, if we got 4m for him and the club could not find a similar level manager with that 4m without cash to spare i'd very worried personally.
I think you are wrong. I think it would be extremely difficult to get a better manager than CC to come and manage us even if we got £10m for Corboran. Too many have quickly and conveniently forgot the dire financial difficulties we were and still are in. Take a look at the stats on money spent in the Prem and Championship and where clubs finish in the table. I'm tired if this argument that it's cautious tactics and not having better players for the reason we are not winning every game and bossing the league with 100 pts plus.

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3643 on: October 25, 2024, 11:57:21 AM »


For me it's because he started this season less cautious and we picked up results. He then reverted to having us play cautious and the results/PPG dropped off.


Can you give any examples of how we have become more cautious? We've become less clinical and certainly failed to create, but that does mean we are being cautious. The Swansea game wasn't exactly scintillating but it was a professional result determined by one piece of great skill from Maja to set up Molumby.

There are certainly reasons to worry about the last five games: we are not a free-flowing, but most teams aren't - football is a game of trade-offs, the more you attack the more open you are, the more risk there is of being done on the counter. We're about midtable for goals scored, but 4th for goals against, and three of those came vs Wednesday (one deflection, one keeper error, one actual goal). For those that care, we are also underperforming our xG by about two goals - we should have scored 15, which could have converted a couple of the last few results from losses to draws, or draws to wins.

At the beginning of the season I had us in mid-table, and then at the end of the window I had us winning the play-offs. The results recently haven't been good but this notion that CC is the second coming of Pulis or Ismael is so far off the mark in my opinion. I hear people bemoaning a lack of plan B. If plan B was any good, it would be plan A. What exactly is our squad set up to do differently? We don't have a target man to lump balls into the box, and most Championship defenders will eat that up.

I think it's clear from the players in our back line that we want to be a bigger threat from set-pieces, and that has to be something to work on moving forward. You don't play a 6-4 guy at left back and not have a thought as to the benefits in both boxes.
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HampshireBaggie

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3644 on: October 25, 2024, 12:07:36 PM »
We are not less cautious.

If we are then Furlong and Heggem haven't got the message!

Teams have worked out how to nullify us and we havent worked out a new way yet.

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3645 on: October 25, 2024, 12:26:19 PM »
I am entertained by 3 points. ( But in fairness i don't have to fork out hard earned cash to travel and watch us week in week out, so i empathise with those who do and are disappointed when we play turgid football even though we may win because of it)
CCS job is to get as many points as possible and get us hopefully into a promotion position, either automatic or play-offs.
Both of these seemed out of our reach during the close season, we were forced to lose senior players some gladly, some through financial necessity.
Our heads were turned by our awesome start and as reality sets in we are disappointed.
There are some posters who just seem  anti-Corberan for some reason, when we win it is deemed lucky against weak opposition and nothing to do with his tactics, when we lose it is solely because of his tactics.
I am disappointed that we are not in the top two, I am puzzled by some of his substitutions, I am intrigued by his failure to blood new recruits.
 But I believe he is arguably the best Manager in this league, is a massive asset for our Club and any talk of replacement is utter and complete madness.

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3646 on: October 25, 2024, 12:36:30 PM »
I think you are wrong. I think it would be extremely difficult to get a better manager than CC to come and manage us even if we got £10m for Corboran. Too many have quickly and conveniently forgot the dire financial difficulties we were and still are in. Take a look at the stats on money spent in the Prem and Championship and where clubs finish in the table. I'm tired if this argument that it's cautious tactics and not having better players for the reason we are not winning every game and bossing the league with 100 pts plus.

Completely agree.

Corberan sets us up taking into account the squads limits. and i still think he has us over achieving. when a manager achieved a play off position and still in those positions the season after, with a squad that on paper with its quality is probably a 9th-14th placed IMO im not sure what people want sometimes.




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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3647 on: October 25, 2024, 12:52:11 PM »
Mark W - there is a clear difference for me in how we managed the games from the first 5 or so to the last 4 or so. There is no one thing i point too, it's from viewing the games with my eyes and comparing them to previous games viewed through same eyes lens.


Baggies Phil - i'd take £4M all day long for CC. I wouldn't take 1-2m if i was Bilkul  as i think he's a decent EFL manager and worth more than that but that's his level for me.   

As you mention our financial difficulties that's partly behind my thinking also. If a good offer for someone comes in, Bilkul will probably consider it and rightly so.



SmethDan

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3648 on: October 25, 2024, 01:30:36 PM »
Genuine question aimed at no one in particular. Or even just an observation. Has anyone actually suggested Carlos Corberan IS beyond criticism? I only ask as it's getting a little tiring reading that he isn't when this is a football forum and criticism is pretty much a given  ;D .
« Last Edit: October 25, 2024, 01:37:33 PM by SmethDan »
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gazberg

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3649 on: October 25, 2024, 02:01:04 PM »
Genuine question aimed at no one in particular. Or even just an observation. Has anyone actually suggested Carlos Corberan IS beyond criticism? I only ask as it's getting a little tiring reading that he isn't when this is a football forum and criticism is pretty much a given  ;D .


I think it's less of a 'thing' now as more and more people are cleaning the 'king carlos' mentality out but it was definitely around last season.