Author Topic: Carlos Corberan (Appointed Valencia CF Manager 25/12/24)  (Read 493793 times)

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zippyandbungle

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3500 on: October 20, 2024, 02:31:11 PM »
Yeah let's go back to someone like Bruce. Nearly every team in the Championship would have Carlos over their current managers. What most of the challenging clubs in the division wouldn't swap is our budget. All but 3 signings were free transfers or loans. We were 16th out of 24 on the amount spent on transfers. https://www.transfermarkt.com/championship/transferausgabentabellenplatz/wettbewerb/GB2 Look at this table comparing expenditure to league position.
Not one person has asked for Bruce back
There are many managers out there that are capable and some that may be in the correct club/Envoirement..
We can read how much we have or haven’t spent after every game…it doesn’t add to the points total,besides if you haven’t got a large budget,wouldn’t you use it correctly and get players who you would use
Diakite,Holgate,McNair,Cole,Styles,Dobbin…might be wondering why they bothered .
If youre going to get told off, get told off for doing something not for doing nothing..

zippyandbungle

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3501 on: October 20, 2024, 02:36:56 PM »
I cannot see why  after a couple of poor games we are suggesting dumping the Head Coach.
Who do we think we are, the Tory Party?
We can judge and criticise, fair enough, but actually proposing replacing him at this stage of the season is sheer madness.
He has over achieved compared to where most of us thought we would be this season and we are a couple of points off automatic promotion.
If failure this year is pitched at not achieving promotion then the only person who could have gotten us that given our financial restrictions is Harry Houdini, and we would have to dig him up first.
Yes we had a cracking start and raised hopes with a league position none of us expected.
Now that momentum has gone and we are settling in to a playoff position where most of us thought was the very best we could have hoped for pre- season.
If we maintain that and stay in the final play-off positions  , for me that is success, regardless of the outcome.
If we had levels of unrestricted finances like some other clubs and were not under EFL restrictions, then promotion would be the yardstick. But we have to be realistic. Our project due to previous disgraceful ownership and near oblivion has to be a longer term one and for me the current owners and coaches seem to see that clearly and have the right stuff to carry it out. Short termism had almost destroyed us.
 We are where we are and for me CC  and his team are the best we could hope for given those circumstances.
If things went  south and we went  into free-fall then of course we would have to reconsider, but we are nowhere near that and hopefully  will never be in that position.
I don’t think anyone has actually said get him out?
However there does seem to be a thing that if anyone dares criticise they get bombarded with
“You want Bruce back”
Or “we ay got no money”
Bruce not the financial restrictions are responsible for our play being negatively cautious nor do they decree that Jed Wallace must enter the field of play at somewhere between 69:01 and 71:02???
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DevonInStripes

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3502 on: October 20, 2024, 02:39:15 PM »
Given the complete lack of new signings in the starting line up , Heggem being the only regular since the season started , have we once again had the recruitment team bring us a load of players that Carlos didn’t actually want ?

zippyandbungle

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3503 on: October 20, 2024, 02:39:55 PM »
Given the complete lack of new signings in the starting line up , Heggem being the only regular since the season started , have we once again had the recruitment team bring us a load of players that Carlos didn’t actually want ?
But good coaches improve players ?
If youre going to get told off, get told off for doing something not for doing nothing..

KN22

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3504 on: October 20, 2024, 02:42:45 PM »
He makes mistakes of course he does and I too wonder why Wallace is anywhere near the first team now. However, to say that we would be better off without him but 4m better off is simply not true in my book. 4m gets you what exactly?
« Last Edit: October 20, 2024, 03:08:15 PM by KN22 »

timdon

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3505 on: October 20, 2024, 03:04:49 PM »
There's some huge over-reaction going on here in my opinion. Look back to the comments pre-season. We had spent virtually no money and had a huge squad turnover. Most of us recognised at the time that this was going to be a season where we rebuilt the club and that change doesn't happen overnight. Then we had the unexpected excellent start to the season and I think that this clouded the judgement of a lot of fans, and expectations suddenly soared. Now we have had a few mediocre games and it's all gloom and doom.
Carlos did an excellent job last season to get us to the play-offs with all the chaos going on behind the scenes. We are still in the play off positions now, and I have little doubt that he will turn results around again soon.
One other point. At various times it has been suggested that Carlos may walk, what with the club being fairly unstable/having no money to spend/being lured to another position etc. But he has remained loyal to our cause. Maybe it's time we gave him a bit more loyalty back?

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3506 on: October 20, 2024, 03:20:44 PM »
I did say pre-seaso. that there would be difficult periods when we need to get behind CC rather than knee jerk, I didn't quite expect it to be so soon. But I remain strong in the conviction that CC is bright enough to adapt, I just wish it was a bit sooner
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gazberg

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3507 on: October 20, 2024, 04:00:40 PM »
Given the complete lack of new signings in the starting line up , Heggem being the only regular since the season started , have we once again had the recruitment team bring us a load of players that Carlos didn’t actually want ?


There's not one manager in this league that has the exact squad they want though.

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm frustrated at his refusal to change things and particularly his insistence on playing midfielders up front when he subs Maja off.

He has the possibility to improve things now at no extra cost to the club so why doesn't he?

Blowee

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3508 on: October 20, 2024, 04:07:24 PM »
A victim of our early success. I for one didn’t expect us to be so quick out of the blocks. We still have a number of positions to sort over the next couple of windows and playoffs last season and top six this season is better than I expected. We are as good if not better than most in the division but not head and shoulders above any of them. It will be a very close Championship and I think we’ll be around the top for most of it.

timdon

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3509 on: October 20, 2024, 04:07:37 PM »

There's not one manager in this league that has the exact squad they want though.

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm frustrated at his refusal to change things and particularly his insistence on playing midfielders up front when he subs Maja off.

He has the possibility to improve things now at no extra cost to the club so why doesn't he?
Which of our forwards would you have liked him to have brought on?

gazberg

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3510 on: October 20, 2024, 04:11:38 PM »
Which of our forwards would you have liked him to have brought on?

Cole, the only one we have until Dike is fit


Edit - Which of our midfielders/wingers have sufficiently impressed you that he shouldn't have got any minutes in his place?

I accept Cole isn't amazing at this level, I'm certain everyone including Cole accepts he's not going to bang them in at this level but to get virtually no game time is maddening
« Last Edit: October 20, 2024, 04:13:51 PM by gazberg »

timdon

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3511 on: October 20, 2024, 04:21:09 PM »
Cole, the only one we have until Dike is fit
Listen, I don't know what is going on with Devante Cole, but he mustn't be doing much right behind the scenes not to even be included in the 9 substitutes. Think about it. He's about the only other fit forward we have and he isn't worth including in our best 20 players in the view of CC !!! Like you, I would be interested to see if he can do the job of taking some of the strain off Maja, but CC sees him every day and has decided he isn't up to scratch  - there has to be a good reason for that, we just don't know what it is.

luke.jones1234

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3512 on: October 20, 2024, 04:53:15 PM »
Listen, I don't know what is going on with Devante Cole, but he mustn't be doing much right behind the scenes not to even be included in the 9 substitutes. Think about it. He's about the only other fit forward we have and he isn't worth including in our best 20 players in the view of CC !!! Like you, I would be interested to see if he can do the job of taking some of the strain off Maja, but CC sees him every day and has decided he isn't up to scratch  - there has to be a good reason for that, we just don't know what it is.

Yet we’ve seen Wallace try and play upfront for the last 18 months n quite clearly can’t ,it’s not on Cole it’s on the manager not giving him a chance ,the same in not giving holgate a chance or switching Heggem to cb and frabrotta to lb! Instead consistent playing Bartley and Ajayi which has never worked for the last 5 years! that’s down to the manager
« Last Edit: October 20, 2024, 05:11:51 PM by MarkW »

gazberg

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3513 on: October 20, 2024, 05:12:48 PM »
Listen, I don't know what is going on with Devante Cole, but he mustn't be doing much right behind the scenes not to even be included in the 9 substitutes. Think about it. He's about the only other fit forward we have and he isn't worth including in our best 20 players in the view of CC !!! Like you, I would be interested to see if he can do the job of taking some of the strain off Maja, but CC sees him every day and has decided he isn't up to scratch  - there has to be a good reason for that, we just don't know what it is.


I made a throwaway comment after a game on here somewhere saying that he must have a master plan that includes Dike because at this point Tim, nothing else makes sense. Genuinely struggling mate.

I really want CC to succeed and I believe he could,.I think he's a clever bloke unlike Bruce, Ismael etc but I believe he's the maker of his own problems to a large extent

timdon

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3514 on: October 20, 2024, 05:30:27 PM »

I made a throwaway comment after a game on here somewhere saying that he must have a master plan that includes Dike because at this point Tim, nothing else makes sense. Genuinely struggling mate.

I really want CC to succeed and I believe he could,.I think he's a clever bloke unlike Bruce, Ismael etc but I believe he's the maker of his own problems to a large extent
I agree with you mate. He's not stupid, which is why I suppose I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here. There must be a good reason why Cole isn't getting a sniff. Maybe he's not fit enough, has a bad attitude, has kicked off at CC, who knows, but there must be something that we don't know about. If we have to leave him out, I would prefer to use Grant in the second string striker role than Wallace on current form, but hey CC may be a better manager than me  ;D

timdon

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3515 on: October 20, 2024, 05:53:12 PM »
Yet we’ve seen Wallace try and play upfront for the last 18 months n quite clearly can’t ,it’s not on Cole it’s on the manager not giving him a chance ,the same in not giving holgate a chance or switching Heggem to cb and frabrotta to lb! Instead consistent playing Bartley and Ajayi which has never worked for the last 5 years! that’s down to the manager
I agree with you about not playing Wallace up front. I also think we will start to see some other options tried soon, but after the good start that we had I understand why CC stayed faithful to those who were doing the business and didn't  immediately abandon what had worked as soon as we had a bit of a blip

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3516 on: October 20, 2024, 06:35:41 PM »
I did say pre-seaso. that there would be difficult periods when we need to get behind CC rather than knee jerk, I didn't quite expect it to be so soon. But I remain strong in the conviction that CC is bright enough to adapt, I just wish it was a bit sooner

He’s been here for 2 years but still doing the same things. I’d also like him to adapt but he is very stubborn. We are seeing the same style of play, the same formations and same types of substitutions regardless of whether they are working. I can’t remember the last time he did something in game to turn things around. How many times have we come back to win a game after going behind under him. I’m yet to see the master tactician than many others see.

GrumpyBaggie

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3517 on: October 20, 2024, 07:05:44 PM »

We can read how much we have or haven’t spent after every game…it doesn’t add to the points total,besides if you haven’t got a large budget,wouldn’t you use it correctly and get players who you would use
Diakite,Holgate,McNair,Cole,Styles,Dobbin…might be wondering why they bothered .
Diakete was so bad when he started a game Carlos hooked him at half-time

GrumpyBaggie

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3518 on: October 20, 2024, 07:09:01 PM »
Given the complete lack of new signings in the starting line up , Heggem being the only regular since the season started , have we once again had the recruitment team bring us a load of players that Carlos didn’t actually want ?
Certainly looks that way doesn't it - seem to remember media suggesting Carlos really wanted Styles though.

zippyandbungle

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3519 on: October 20, 2024, 07:48:44 PM »
There's some huge over-reaction going on here in my opinion. Look back to the comments pre-season. We had spent virtually no money and had a huge squad turnover. Most of us recognised at the time that this was going to be a season where we rebuilt the club and that change doesn't happen overnight. Then we had the unexpected excellent start to the season and I think that this clouded the judgement of a lot of fans, and expectations suddenly soared. Now we have had a few mediocre games and it's all gloom and doom.
Carlos did an excellent job last season to get us to the play-offs with all the chaos going on behind the scenes. We are still in the play off positions now, and I have little doubt that he will turn results around again soon.
One other point. At various times it has been suggested that Carlos may walk, what with the club being fairly unstable/having no money to spend/being lured to another position etc. But he has remained loyal to our cause. Maybe it's time we gave him a bit more loyalty back?
Is it a massive over reaction or is it some fans being fed up with the repetition of stubbornness and inability to change ?
Probably compounded every time he overlooks one of the many bomb squad for Jed Wallace …on 69 minutes
If youre going to get told off, get told off for doing something not for doing nothing..

zippyandbungle

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3520 on: October 20, 2024, 07:50:00 PM »
Diakete was so bad when he started a game Carlos hooked him at half-time
Wallace ,Diangana,Johnstone,Racic have all played worse at time this season but keep getting time on the pitch .
If youre going to get told off, get told off for doing something not for doing nothing..

zippyandbungle

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3521 on: October 20, 2024, 07:51:46 PM »
Listen, I don't know what is going on with Devante Cole, but he mustn't be doing much right behind the scenes not to even be included in the 9 substitutes. Think about it. He's about the only other fit forward we have and he isn't worth including in our best 20 players in the view of CC !!! Like you, I would be interested to see if he can do the job of taking some of the strain off Maja, but CC sees him every day and has decided he isn't up to scratch  - there has to be a good reason for that, we just don't know what it is.
Potentially
But you would have to be unbelievably bad if you were the only real alternative and they can’t find space inn9 places to sit you on the bench ?
There are also many instances where managers just don’t want or like players …Karlan Grant springs to mind
If youre going to get told off, get told off for doing something not for doing nothing..

timdon

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3522 on: October 20, 2024, 08:48:14 PM »
Is it a massive over reaction or is it some fans being fed up with the repetition of stubbornness and inability to change ?
Probably compounded every time he overlooks one of the many bomb squad for Jed Wallace …on 69 minutes
Didn't see many complaining about stubbornness or inability to change when he took us to the play offs last season, or indeed after the first half dozen games this season. These sorts of comments happen to every single manager when we have a bad run of results, and they will disappear again once the form turns around. And he'll make changes gradually as the season progresses I have no doubt.

zippyandbungle

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3523 on: October 20, 2024, 09:40:36 PM »
Didn't see many complaining about stubbornness or inability to change when he took us to the play offs last season, or indeed after the first half dozen games this season. These sorts of comments happen to every single manager when we have a bad run of results, and they will disappear again once the form turns around. And he'll make changes gradually as the season progresses I have no doubt.
People wouldn’t complain usually when form / position was in the positive.
Quite rightly people are now asking why there isn’t a plan b and why he persists with the same formation/players/substitutions .
It’s also worth pointing out that since run in to the play offs ,there have been seismic changes in terms of personal…most of which the manager looks to have decided he won’t utilise, you keep the faith that he will make those changes,I believe he is too stubborn and it could end quite badly .
If youre going to get told off, get told off for doing something not for doing nothing..

timdon

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Re: Carlos Corberan
« Reply #3524 on: October 20, 2024, 11:14:58 PM »
People wouldn’t complain usually when form / position was in the positive.
Quite rightly people are now asking why there isn’t a plan b and why he persists with the same formation/players/substitutions .
It’s also worth pointing out that since run in to the play offs ,there have been seismic changes in terms of personal…most of which the manager looks to have decided he won’t utilise, you keep the faith that he will make those changes,I believe he is too stubborn and it could end quite badly .
It was only a few short weeks ago that you were predicting that we would finish first or second and you were worrying that we might not be able to keep CC. Now you think that it's all going to end badly !! Stop worrying, it will be fine. we won't finish top 2 but it's not going to end badly either. Get yourself into a somewhere in the middle (top 6) frame of mind  ;D