[tuamigos]

I won't be having the vaccine and will demand a refund if you have to prove you've been doubled jabbed to get into WBA.

Why demand. I'm sure the club will give you your money back gladly.

[BaggiePhil]

These are the facts. Check them out and make your own mind up.

But if you think that if you have the vaccine you are suddenly immune ...............  then think again !!!

Personally, I find it very disappointing and sad that last year politicians and scientists were talking about the end game being the vaccination. But now we have the vaccination and we are nowhere nearer forward because we are still talking about restrictions etc.

I don't think the vaccine is as good as they make out because they keep talking about different variants cropping up. I also think there is a lot of selfish behaviour taking place by the government and the scientists and the medical companies. If they found a cure tomorrow and we wiped covid off the face of this planet, a lot of companies and people with interest in these companies would lose a lot of income. Also these scientists we keep seeing on TV would suddenly disappear into  their normal day jobs and lose all that fame.

Facts? what facts are you talking about? That you know more than a professor?  I blame this  modern frivolous lack of trust in experts and scientists. Yes different variants are cropping up because of high infection rates across the world. The more infections the more potential for variants. Why do you think there are different flu vaccines each year, because of variants. i agree with you that the government hierarchy and their buddies have made money from this pandemic but I don't believe they made it up and perpetuate  it for they own benefit. They can easily make money look at Cameron and Blair they don't need to invent a pandemic to do that. As for scientists do you really think they are in it for the fame and lie to become celebrities? This is one step away from from those obscenities at the weekend.

[tuamigos]

Facts? what facts are you talking about? That you know more than a professor?  I blame this  modern frivolous lack of trust in experts and scientists. Yes different variants are cropping up because of high infection rates across the world. The more infections the more potential for variants. Why do you think there are different flu vaccines each year, because of variants. i agree with you that the government hierarchy and their buddies have made money from this pandemic but I don't believe they made it up and perpetuate  it for they own benefit. They can easily make money look at Cameron and Blair. As for scientists do you really think they are in it for the fame and lie to become celebrities? This is one step away from from those obscenities at the weekend.

I would think the opposite. Most of them look quite uneasy in front of the cameras.
Why wouldn't anybody trust Whitty, Vallance, or Van Tam?
Yes they're cautious but they are dealing with people's lives, they see it every day. We don't.

[baggiemart]

Facts? what facts are you talking about? That you know more than a professor?  I blame this  modern frivolous lack of trust in experts and scientists. Yes different variants are cropping up because of high infection rates across the world. The more infections the more potential for variants. Why do you think there are different flu vaccines each year, because of variants. i agree with you that the government hierarchy and their buddies have made money from this pandemic but I don't believe they made it up and perpetuate  it for they own benefit. They can easily make money look at Cameron and Blair. As for scientists do you really think they are in it for the fame and lie to become celebrities? This is one step away from from those obscenities at the weekend.

Yes the facts are that you can pass on the virus and you can still catch the virus when you have been double jabbed. Do your research before you start throwing your insults around !!!!!!

If you are correct with all these different variants cropping up then we are stuck with this situation for life !!!!  How thrilling. 

People have to face facts. This is not even in the top 10 causes for death in the country. But while this is getting all the headlines and everything is revolving around covid, people are dying of cancer because their operations are being cancelled.

In all of this the main fact has been missed by almost everyone. These precautions are being introduced to protect the NHS. This is because successive governments have failed to invest in the NHS. In 2000 we had 60 million in the country. Today we have 66 million an increase of 10%. So logic says that we should now have 10% more hospitals, 10% more doctors, 10% more nurses, etc . If this had happened, when this situation arises the NHS could cope easily.

Its like if you start a family,  with one child you can get by with your Ford fiesta but if you end up with 4 kids you need to upgrade your ford fiesta to a bigger vehicle.

[skyclad99]

This thread is so going to go the same way as the other one........

[BaggiePhil]

Yes the facts are that you can pass on the virus and you can still catch the virus when you have been double jabbed. Do your research before you start throwing your insults around !!!!!!

If you are correct with all these different variants cropping up then we are stuck with this situation for life !!!!  How thrilling. 

People have to face facts. This is not even in the top 10 causes for death in the country. But while this is getting all the headlines and everything is revolving around covid, people are dying of cancer because their operations are being cancelled.

In all of this the main fact has been missed by almost everyone. These precautions are being introduced to protect the NHS. This is because successive governments have failed to invest in the NHS. In 2000 we had 60 million in the country. Today we have 66 million an increase of 10%. So logic says that we should now have 10% more hospitals, 10% more doctors, 10% more nurses, etc . If this had happened, when this situation arises the NHS could cope easily.

Its like if you start a family,  with one child you can get by with your Ford fiesta but if you end up with 4 kids you need to upgrade your ford fiesta to a bigger vehicle.

Agree with you about funding for the NHS. Governments could have funded it more. As for Corona Virus being an issue for a long time that is more likely than not. Booster shots to mitigate the probable variants from the scientists you were sad and disappointed with. Oh and don't forget the cancer treatments they develop.

[TheJacko2000]

Back to Vaccine Passports, I'm still yet to be told one positive for bringing them in. I'm still pretty confident it's just a nudge to increase vaccination uptake in the 18-30 age bracket.

[baggiemart]

Agree with you about funding for the NHS. Governments could have funded it more. As for Corona Virus being an issue for a long time that is more likely than not. Booster shots to mitigate the probable variants from the scientists you were sad and disappointed with. Oh and don't forget the cancer treatments they develop.

When you mention cancer thats another topic I have an opinion on but not for here.

Getting back on the point, vaccine passports, so by your reasoning these vaccine passports will be with us indefinitely because covid will be with us indefinitely !!

[baggiemart]

Back to Vaccine Passports, I'm still yet to be told one positive for bringing them in. I'm still pretty confident it's just a nudge to increase vaccination uptake in the 18-30 age bracket.

Agreed.  All these vaccines are a number game. Look how many vaccines I managed to get when I was in government !!

[BaggiePhil]

I think vaccine passports are an attempt to prevent transmission of the virus. Yes you can still pass it on if you are double vaccinated but are less likely to than if you haven't been vaccinated. Also you are less likely to contract the virus if you have been vaccinated. But the vaccines aren't a magic bullet to end the virus in themselves. The more people that get the virus the more opportunity for variance. The more variants the more likely the virus is to mutate into a strain that defeats the immunity of the current vaccines and naturally generated immunity. Whether vaccine passports is one of best ways to mitigate this problem I'm not sure but just vaccinating as many people as possible without any other measures will not stop transmission and hence the potential for an ongoing pandemic.

[kc56wba]

If the government say that the football club's must implement Vaccine Passports, what can the fans do? Boycott? well I would say that the vast majority of those who have had the vaccine, both jabs, wont care and still go to games and wont be bothered about showing an App on the phone or even carrying an certificate. 

[baggiemart]

If the government say that the football club's must implement Vaccine Passports, what can the fans do? Boycott? well I would say that the vast majority of those who have had the vaccine, both jabs, wont care and still go to games and wont be bothered about showing an App on the phone or even carrying an certificate.

One sure way to get rid of vaccine passports is to boycott any venue that uses them.  But we all know that is not going to happen because we live in a selfish society today .

[SmethDan]

If there's money to be made (and there would be) you can almost guarantee someone would find a way around vaccine passports. Dare say software plans are already underway.

[baggiemart]

If there's money to be made (and there would be) you can almost guarantee someone would find a way around vaccine passports. Dare say software plans are already underway.

I think it might be more difficult at football matches. The stewards probably have boring jobs monday to friday but come the weekend they enjoy the power of being a steward !!!

As far as nightclubs are concerned lets be honest here. They have struggled for over 12 months with little help from the government. They get open for one day then the government drop the vaccine passport on them. Do you really think they are going to turn away paying punters because they haven't got a vaccine passport and how is anyone going to find out.

Politicians issue there orders from their Ivory towers in London, but the real world is in nightclubs in Walsall, Handsworth, Dudley and the like.
 

[Albionic]

One sure way to get rid of vaccine passports is to boycott any venue that uses them.  But we all know that is not going to happen because we live in a selfish society today .

vaccinate for the greater good   or    boycott for the greater good ?

all depends on your perspective of selfish I suppose

[gazberg]

I would definitely boycott any business that chooses to ask for them if not legally required too.

[The Black Pearl]

Back to Vaccine Passports, I'm still yet to be told one positive for bringing them in. I'm still pretty confident it's just a nudge to increase vaccination uptake in the 18-30 age bracket.

That's the main reason and a huge positive to me.

[TheJacko2000]

That's the main reason and a huge positive to me.

As in they will never come to pass...

Imagine being pro vaccine passports, we've been here before (Germany in the 1930s) it doesn't end well.

[Albionic]

As in they will never come to pass...

Imagine being pro vaccine passports, we've been here before (Germany in the 1930s) it doesn't end well.

Seriously thats an outrageous link to make, you need to rethink that one mate, not remotely funny.

[gazberg]

Seriously thats an outrageous link to make, you need to rethink that one mate, not remotely funny.

Thin end of the wedge these passports are. He's not being funny.

[hardtobeat]

He's not being funny.

You got that right !

[BaggiePhil]

One sure way to get rid of vaccine passports is to boycott any venue that uses them.  But we all know that is not going to happen because we live in a selfish society today .

Or conversely boycott any venue that doesn't use them to show your support for vaccine passports.

[TheJacko2000]

Seriously thats an outrageous link to make, you need to rethink that one mate, not remotely funny.

It's not, I don't,  it's not intended to be.

[baggiemart]

It does make you think where all this is going to end.

Johnson and his merry men are  now talking about banning students from lectures if they have not be double jabbed.

Ireland will only allow you in pubs and restaurants if you have been double jabbed.

This is all not going well.

They put these restrictions in because people have not been double jabbed but allow car to belt out cancer causing fumes. Allow companies like Just Eat etc  to supply food that is just making people obese and lazy. Isn't this a strain on the NHS !!

They only tell people that you have been vaccinated. they don't tell anyone if you currently have covid. It has already been pointed out that vaccinated people can catch the virus and pass it on.  So you could have a crowd of 20,000 in a stadium, 15,000 of them could have covid although they have been vaccinated. Of those 15,000 ,500 could end up in hospital, Of those 500 some could die.

So how is the vaccination passports protecting people.

If you want a stadium of people free of covid have testing before you go in.  Its the only way to make it safe !!!

[phbaggies]

One sure way to get rid of vaccine passports is to boycott any venue that uses them.  But we all know that is not going to happen because we live in a selfish society today .

That's unfair on the venue. The venue isn't bringing them in because they want to, it will only be if the government make it a mandatory evidence for entry!