[smosher34]

NO, if people do not take the vaccine they are potential hosts for mutations to develop within! That threatens those of us who are participating to reduce the probability of mutations. Not having the vaccine (unless for medical reasons) IS SELFISH and risks everyone. "their risk, their choice" is just plain wrong, what you do, can impact everyone.

i am not having the vaccine .this does not make me SELFISH everyone has a choice in life mine is not to have it. how it risks everyone not having the vaccine is beyond me.

[MarkW]

i am not having the vaccine .this does not make me SELFISH everyone has a choice in life mine is not to have it. how it risks everyone not having the vaccine is beyond me.

Having the vaccine contributes towards Herd immunity. It's herd immunity that protects those who can't have the vaccine for legitimate reasons. By not having the vaccine, you're harming that effort towards the herd immunity

[tuamigos]

i am not having the vaccine .this does not make me SELFISH everyone has a choice in life mine is not to have it. how it risks everyone not having the vaccine is beyond me.

Yes it does, and if it's beyond you there there is no point trying to explain.

[TheJacko2000]

And thus, indoctrination has been a success...

[kc56wba]

I know of a couple of people who said no way they were having the vaccine, then this talk about Vaccine passports for holidays started and now both of them have had their first jab. 

[SmethDan]

I know of a couple of people who said no way they were having the vaccine, then this talk about Vaccine passports for holidays started and now both of them have had their first jab. 

Always interesting to see the priorities of others......

[Hunnington Baggie]

I’ll have mine when it eventually comes to the under 30’s. I’ve personally not yet reached a good reason NOT to have it.

[section5]

I’ll have mine when it eventually comes to the under 30’s. I’ve personally not yet reached a good reason NOT to have it.

Natural immunity? Vaccines are made to emulate the reaction of the immune system within the body? Extremely low/minuscule infection fatality rate (in particular your age range, and in fact under 60s)

[section5]

Natural immunity? Vaccines are made to emulate the reaction of the immune system within the body? Extremely low/minuscule infection fatality rate (in particular your age range, and in fact under 60s)

However people dress it, the vaccines are trial/experimental. Emergency authorisation for use is not comparable to the typical phased clinical trials that last years

https://www.immunology.ox.ac.uk/covid-19/covid-19-immunology-literature-reviews/robust-t-cell-immunity-in-convalescent-individuals-with-asymptomatic-or-mild-covid-19

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/natural-immunity-covid-19-may-be-long-lasting

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2550-z

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6512/89

Global Infection Fatality Rate
0.15‐0.20% (0.03‐0.04% in those <70yrs) - https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf

[tuamigos]

However people dress it, the vaccines are trial/experimental. Emergency authorisation for use is not comparable to the typical phased clinical trials that last years

https://www.immunology.ox.ac.uk/covid-19/covid-19-immunology-literature-reviews/robust-t-cell-immunity-in-convalescent-individuals-with-asymptomatic-or-mild-covid-19

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/natural-immunity-covid-19-may-be-long-lasting

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2550-z

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6512/89

Global Infection Fatality Rate
0.15‐0.20% (0.03‐0.04% in those <70yrs) - https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf

Whether you like it or not, vaccine passports will be the norm for foreign travel.

[section5]

Whether you like it or not, vaccine passports will be the norm for foreign travel.

Will it be though? Multiple countries are already abandoning the approach... the barriers seem to be coming back to the U.K.

[The Black Pearl]

Will it be though? Multiple countries are already abandoning the approach... the barriers seem to be coming back to the U.K.

Not what I'm reading and rightly so, no vaccination, no vacation.

[TheJacko2000]

Not what I'm reading and rightly so, no vaccination, no vacation.

This is patently untrue.

[Albionic]

This is patently untrue.

how do you know? what are the policies of all potential destinations, please share ?

[section5]

Not what I'm reading and rightly so, no vaccination, no vacation.

Rightly so?
Why should one be coerced into getting a vaccine when they’ve been exposed naturally and the science backs up immunity gained naturally as per the studies linked in a few posts above?
What science is this following?
Most (if any) countries don’t require a “vaccine passport” - requirements are: proof of negative tests or recent recovery from covid or your proof of jabs.
Turkey only requires a negative test but the barrier coming back from anywhere is on our side with the quarantine hotels etc which double/triple the cost for people...

[albion59]

i am not having the vaccine .this does not make me SELFISH everyone has a choice in life mine is not to have it. how it risks everyone not having the vaccine is beyond me.

You are not having the vaccine. So if you got seriously ill with covid would you expect to be treated in hospital?

[section5]

You are not having the vaccine. So if you got seriously ill with covid would you expect to be treated in hospital?

Of course... I can’t believe this is the state of mind people are actually in...it’s shocking to think to be honest

[albion59]

Of course... I can’t believe this is the state of mind people are actually in...it’s shocking to think to be honest

why is it shocking? No vaccine = no treatment. Why should someone getting ill through not having a vaccine take up a bed in hospital from someone with caner,heart attack and stroke etc who can't get a bed? No competition.

[section5]

There is evidence in natural immunity and immunity in the unexposed through “cross” immunity. This leads to the dependence on a vaccine for everyone and not just the vulnerable as questionable now in terms of policy and protection of those statistically vulnerable to covid.

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17.20061440v1.article-info#disqus_thread
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S120197122100120X
https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/natural-immunity-covid-19-may-be-long-lasting

In terms of the nhs the things you pointed out are the exact things that have been neglected by establishments in favour of COVID-19 which has an infection fatality rate of 0.15‐0.20% (0.03‐0.04% in those <70yrs)” Prof Ioannidis  With a recommendation of “Targeted/precise management of pandemic & avoiding past mistakes would minimize mortality”.
https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf
 
I would advise to look at the BMA report into the serious backlog the nhs now faces and the impact the measures have had to millions of people whether through cancer care,diabetes,cardiovascular etc the impact is quite astonishing.

https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/nhs-delivery-and-workforce/pressures/pressure-points-in-the-nhs

Some worrying snippets:
“The BMA estimates that, between April 2020 and March 2021, there were:

3.37 million fewer elective procedures
21.4 million fewer outpatient attendances.

While the overall median waiting time for treatment decreased to 11.6 weeks in March 2021, the total number of patients waiting over 18 weeks for treatment increased again to 1.76 million.

Moreover, the number of patients waiting over one year for treatment hit 436,127 in March and has risen 378-fold since March 2019. This figure has consistently risen since March 2020 and is now the highest it has been since August 2007.

This 14-year high highlights the scale of unmet need in a significant portion of the waiting list, with patients having been de-prioritised for care and experiencing extremely long waits.

This decrease in cancer treatment and screening is unacceptable given the Government’s statements that cancer care would be unaffected during the pandemic.

There is irrefutable evidence that cancer treatment was severely affected during the first peak of COVID-19 hospitalisations. All measures need to be put in place to prevent such large activity drops occurring as we grapple with the larger second peak.”

So instead of worrying about medical apartheid systems over a vaccination that, by definition:
“A vaccine stimulates your immune system to produce antibodies, exactly like it would if you were exposed to the disease. After getting vaccinated, you develop immunity to that disease, without having to get the disease first. This is what makes vaccines such powerful medicine.”-  immunisation basics
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htm

The backlog the nhs is going to see due to the neglect of care of the very things you mentioned is going to be bad enough never mind coercing people into vaccination to get treatment as you suggest.. it’s frankly quite baffling the stance on the insistence of forced medical treatments, especially as the vulnerable are vaccinated (who want it), the studies confirm natural immunity- so if exposed why the need for a vaccine? And the fact that the infection fatality rate is equivalent to a bad flu season.

[TheJacko2000]

why is it shocking? No vaccine = no treatment. Why should someone getting ill through not having a vaccine take up a bed in hospital from someone with caner,heart attack and stroke etc who can't get a bed? No competition.

Sorry mate but you cannot create a health caste system. Where vaccinated = good (rich) (1st class) citizen, and unvaccinated = bad (poor) (2nd class) citizen.

It's frankly an outrageous and dangerous suggestion. It's exactly like saying deny obese people, people who smoke and drinkers and drug abusers NHS treatment. Doing this would certainly free up beds and resources, but is unthinkable in any civilised society.

[tuamigos]

Will it be though? Multiple countries are already abandoning the approach... the barriers seem to be coming back to the U.K.

From what I've been reading other countries are further down the road to vaccine passports than we are.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/explainer-how-vaccine-passports-for-global-travel-will-work-1.5442977

[albion59]

Sorry mate but you cannot create a health caste system. Where vaccinated = good (rich) (1st class) citizen, and unvaccinated = bad (poor) (2nd class) citizen.

It's frankly an outrageous and dangerous suggestion. It's exactly like saying deny obese people, people who smoke and drinkers and drug abusers NHS treatment. Doing this would certainly free up beds and resources, but is unthinkable in any civilised society.

I can see what you are saying but someone who drinks, smokes, or are overweight ain't going to kill or make other people seriously ill.

[section5]

I can see what you are saying but someone who drinks, smokes, or are overweight ain't going to kill or make other people seriously ill.

Neither is someone likely to do that with covid statistically, especially now the majority of vulnerable would have been vaccinated or exposed naturally.. and in consideration of its infection fatality rate being equivalent as a nasty flu, if we didn’t put all these measures in place for equivalent viruses with similar fatality rates- why the need for covid?

[tuamigos]

Neither is someone likely to do that with covid statistically, especially now the majority of vulnerable would have been vaccinated or exposed naturally.. and in consideration of its infection fatality rate being equivalent as a nasty flu, if we didn’t put all these measures in place for equivalent viruses with similar fatality rates- why the need for covid?

Because it's far more easily transmissible than flu and the long term effects are worse.
The problem is that if there are lots of infections that need hospital treatment then the health system cannot cope with its day to day business that normally goes on. That is what's happened now.
I thought the long term strategy was to use the Nightingale hospitals for Covid patients which would leave the normal hospitals free to do all the other business. Where they fell down with that was manpower, they didn't have enough doctors and nurses to staff both.

[section5]

Because it's far more easily transmissible than flu and the long term effects are worse.
The problem is that if there are lots of infections that need hospital treatment then the health system cannot cope with its day to day business that normally goes on. That is what's happened now.
I thought the long term strategy was to use the Nightingale hospitals for Covid patients which would leave the normal hospitals free to do all the other business. Where they fell down with that was manpower, they didn't have enough doctors and nurses to staff both.

I’m sorry but this notion of the health system not being able to cope is nonsense.

The very idea a disease with a 0.15% infection fatality rate can bring the NHS to its knees is shocking to be honest. I propose it is more the protocols that have impacted the nhs due to self isolation/testing etc - staff absenteeism has been at record highs in the time of need, coupled with the serious impact as mentioned in the “pressure points in the nhs”-https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/nhs-delivery-and-workforce/pressures/pressure-points-in-the-nhs

The Nightingale project cost us over half a billion pounds. It’s naive to think this was going to be our saving grace and whatever idiot signed off on it needs to face public inquiries, as you mentioned there were never enough staff to facilitate this plan and due to the protocols there’s not been enough staff in the normal nhs facilities to cope and care for people.

Birmingham nightingale cost £66million and treated 0 people...

I’m sorry but the statistics don’t suggest that. Long term affects could well be post viral fatigue syndrome experienced again in a statistically minor amount of people. Never has a disease had this much focus from the whole world since HIV/AIDS and the amount of science that seems to have been repurposed to fit the scare agenda is quite frightening.