Poll

Will you be taking up your option of receiving the Covid vaccine.

Yes
90 (86.5%)
No
11 (10.6%)
Undecided
3 (2.9%)

Total Members Voted: 104

Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 1356700 times)

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BB74

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8900 on: July 18, 2021, 10:46:52 AM »
How’s everyone feeling about tomorrow? Will you be going back to normal? Anyone deleting the app? Seen a lot of people moaning about it now, especially after the pilot schemes of daily lft testing mps have got themselves on.

Dropping my mask from tomorrow. But other than that I won’t see much difference in life although it’s apparently ‘freedom day’. We’ll still have to book for things and over zealous businesses/people will try and drag this out as long as they can.

The spontaneity of life will take another year to come back for me. Everything will still be regimented and organised and sold out on the day etc. So planning and prebooking will continue.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 11:10:07 AM by BB74 »

LiamTheBaggie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8901 on: July 18, 2021, 10:56:35 AM »
How’s everyone feeling about tomorrow? Will you be going back to normal? Anyone deleting the app? Seen a lot of people moaning about it now, especially after the pilot schemes of daily lft testing mps have got themselves on.

Life has been normal for me - just with the addition of the mask and table service at the local.

Tomorrow will not be such a massive change - though I’ll keep the mask just encase I am required to wear it.
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8902 on: July 18, 2021, 12:08:31 PM »
The app has been a waste of money from the start.

I have deleted it now because it really isn’t fit for purpose.

As above, (and regardless of the reason) if nhs managers are telling their staff not to use it that says everything to me about how good the app is.

If you go into settings on the Covid app you can turn the tracking mode off. NHS workers (along with  everyone else) have an option to turn the tracking off before they start their shift and turning it back on again once away from their place of employment. It takes seconds.
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
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gazberg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8903 on: July 18, 2021, 12:44:49 PM »
You seemed to be saying 18months of restrictions haven't been worthwhile which to my mind means we shouldn't have any

18 months of blanket lockdowns were stupid. Doesn't mean everyone will die if we didn't. What I'm saying is people are going to die now anyway just not as many which is a good thing.

gazberg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8904 on: July 18, 2021, 12:46:59 PM »
How’s everyone feeling about tomorrow? Will you be going back to normal? Anyone deleting the app? Seen a lot of people moaning about it now, especially after the pilot schemes of daily lft testing mps have got themselves on.

Can't wait, masks binned, app deleted. Lost 18 months of life that I will never be compensated for so time to hit everything twice as hard

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8905 on: July 18, 2021, 01:20:46 PM »
How’s everyone feeling about tomorrow? Will you be going back to normal? Anyone deleting the app? Seen a lot of people moaning about it now, especially after the pilot schemes of daily lft testing mps have got themselves on.

What's normal?
I shall be going about my business a usual, just watching what I'm doing, mask at the ready for when I go into a shop, hand sanitiser in pocket. Get on with it.
My old man always said 'You can't educate pork!'

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8906 on: July 18, 2021, 02:13:19 PM »
18 months of blanket lockdowns were stupid. Doesn't mean everyone will die if we didn't. What I'm saying is people are going to die now anyway just not as many which is a good thing.
I think I see where you're coming from lockdowns haven't proven to be the answer Sweden pretty much carried on as normal without huge numbers getting the virus, the one thing overlooked is the population and density of population England has a high population and a high density a double whammy when trying to fight a virus.

gazberg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8907 on: July 18, 2021, 02:23:12 PM »
I think I see where you're coming from lockdowns haven't proven to be the answer Sweden pretty much carried on as normal without huge numbers getting the virus, the one thing overlooked is the population and density of population England has a high population and a high density a double whammy when trying to fight a virus.

Yes indeed. I'm not sure how they think we are going to avoid each other, we live on top of one another as it is anyway. All we have done is delayed the inevitable is the point i was trying to make. It's cost lives regardless to uphold the lockdown and caused untold damage socially, economically, psychologically etc

We live in a world where humans fear being near other humans. Absolutely bonkers. No justification for it but the media and government have played a blinder in bullcrapping people.

gazberg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8908 on: July 18, 2021, 05:02:25 PM »
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/17/cloth-face-masks-comfort-blankets-do-little-curb-covid-spread/

Another non-shocker but nice to have it confirmed. The average persons mask is next to useless in terms of covid19 prevention.

If they really wanted us safe we would have been issued with N95 masks. I used to call masks teddy bears for adults but i see in this article they are using the term 'comfort blankets' which is probably more apt.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8909 on: July 18, 2021, 05:42:55 PM »
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/17/cloth-face-masks-comfort-blankets-do-little-curb-covid-spread/

Another non-shocker but nice to have it confirmed. The average persons mask is next to useless in terms of covid19 prevention.

If they really wanted us safe we would have been issued with N95 masks. I used to call masks teddy bears for adults but i see in this article they are using the term 'comfort blankets' which is probably more apt.

Available on Amazon. I have several

gazberg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8910 on: July 18, 2021, 05:49:39 PM »

Available on Amazon. I have several

Why wasn't this promoted by the government? If it was that vital it would have been surely? I know everyone couldn't have gotten one immediaately but over time yes.

section5

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8911 on: July 18, 2021, 06:50:34 PM »
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/17/cloth-face-masks-comfort-blankets-do-little-curb-covid-spread/

Another non-shocker but nice to have it confirmed. The average persons mask is next to useless in terms of covid19 prevention.

If they really wanted us safe we would have been issued with N95 masks. I used to call masks teddy bears for adults but i see in this article they are using the term 'comfort blankets' which is probably more apt.

N95’s are top of the class in lab settings for filter penetration but these results don’t translate to real life.

“Results of the increased efficiency of N95-rated masks such as that tested in our study suggest that such masks should be used, rather than surgical masks, for this purpose. The relatively greater filtration efficiency of N95-rated face masks relative to surgical masks demonstrated in laboratory studies has not, however, translated into significant differences in protection of healthcare workers in controlled studies which could be due to lack of fitting information provided in these studies.”

Because in order to get the benefits replicated in a lab you have to be compliant. Which would require a large amount of masks and essentially require us to be robots (plus factors such as leakage etc)

“Any increased benefits of N95 facepiece respirators such as the test mask over surgical masks are likely dependent upon the ergonomic fit of the mask to the wearer’s face. This is because in the absence of a tight fit, inward leakage would be expected to dominate over filter penetration as the predominant mode of entry of particulates/aerosols containing infectious agents into the mask, regardless of the type of mask. A controlled clinical study failed, however, to reveal a significant difference in protection of healthcare workers using fit-tested vs. non-fit-tested N95 masks”

https://jtd.amegroups.com/article/view/20136/15564

“In this pragmatic, cluster randomized trial that involved multiple outpatient sites at 7 health care delivery systems across a wide geographic area over 4 seasons of peak viral respiratory illness, there was no significant difference between the effectiveness of N95 respirators and medical masks in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza among participants routinely exposed to respiratory illnesses in the workplace”

“This supports the finding that neither N95 respirators nor medical masks were more effective in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza or other viral respiratory infection or illness among participants when worn in a fashion consistent with current US clinical practice.”

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214

“Our study found a low N95 VMF pass rate of 12.6%. The observation that reading pictorial instructions was not associated with increased VMF pass rates may suggest an inherent complexity to N95 mask wearing”

“These findings support ongoing recommendations against the use of N95 masks by the general public during the COVID-19 pandemic. N95 mask use by the general public may not translate into effective protection but instead provide false reassurance.”

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2766070

“The earliest retrospective studies failed to demonstrate any statistically significant improvement in surgical site infection rates following the use of masks. Indeed, the latest National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidelines on the matter do not require operating staff to wear a mask in theatre”

“Based upon the findings of this review, National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidelines state that there is ‘limited evidence concerning the use of non-sterile theatre wear’ such as surgical masks when trying to minimise the risk of surgical site infection, although there was an overall ‘consensus that wearing non-sterile theatre wear is important in maintaining theatre discipline’

“Despite clear evidence that facemasks act to protect the theatre staff from macroscopic facial contamination, there are studies to suggest that they fail to protect surgeons from potentially hazardous sub-micrometre contaminants. This corresponds roughly to the size range of infectious bacteria while viruses are even smaller. Therefore, the protection that masks confer in the form of macroscopic facial contamination may not necessarily extend towards any microscopic infectious agents present within that contamination.”

“Given that there is no evidence that they cause any harm either, proponents would rather err on the side of caution and encourage their continued use, stressing that there is no room for complacency when it comes to ensuring patient safety. This opinion is similarly echoed by the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidelines which assert that mask usage contributes towards ‘maintaining theatre discipline’.”

“It is possible, if not probable, that if surgical facemasks were to be introduced today, without the historical impetus currently associated with their use, the experimental evidence would not be sufficiently compelling to incorporate facemasks into surgical practice.“

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4480558/#__ffn_sectitle

Personally I think the mask recommendations were more to make it look like the government(s) were being proactive and doing something visible in order to give “confidence” to people to go out.

“Mr Hancock expanded saying "face coverings increase confidence in people to shop".”

https://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2020/july/coronavirus-statement-14-july/

gazberg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8912 on: July 18, 2021, 06:55:12 PM »
Yeah the last line sums it up, they serve a purpose but not a medical one.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8913 on: July 18, 2021, 07:54:48 PM »
There are also many very good cloth masks that have good / very good effectiveness - triple layer, correct thread count, properly tested. Another shocker...some masks are better than others. 
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hardtobeat

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8914 on: July 18, 2021, 08:14:26 PM »
Why wasn't this promoted by the government? If it was that vital it would have been surely? I know everyone couldn't have gotten one immediaately but over time yes.
Perhaps because they preferred a mate at the pub to get the contract?
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gazberg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8915 on: July 18, 2021, 09:00:17 PM »
There are also many very good cloth masks that have good / very good effectiveness - triple layer, correct thread count, properly tested. Another shocker...some masks are better than others.

Still the fact remains they do little in the grand scheme of things. If they comfort people thats fine, i don't care whether someone wears one or not but lets not call them something they are not -medically essential.

Perhaps because they preferred a mate at the pub to get the contract?

Definitely wouldn't disagree with that.

Adder

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8916 on: July 18, 2021, 09:25:12 PM »
Still the fact remains they do little in the grand scheme of things. If they comfort people thats fine, i don't care whether someone wears one or not but lets not call them something they are not -medically essential.

Definitely wouldn't disagree with that.
It's a bit more than 'comfort people' though. Of course they don't stop a pandemic in it's tracks but we don't actually know how many more cases there would have been without any face masks over the past 15 months.
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gazberg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8917 on: July 18, 2021, 09:29:50 PM »
It's a bit more than 'comfort people' though. Of course they don't stop a pandemic in it's tracks but we don't actually know how many more cases there would have been without any face masks over the past 15 months.

True we will never know but data suggests not that many. People can wear them for the rest of time for me, i believe in that right of choice, i just hate it when they are claimed to be something they are not.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8918 on: July 19, 2021, 07:37:14 AM »
Face masks help reduce transmission end of discussion. The only thing to debate is by how much and how people should be advised on how to wear them effectively. I feel that wearing a mask is a patriotic. Patriotism is defined as

"Feeling, expressing, or inspired by love for one's country.
Full of patriotism; actuated by the love of country.
Inspired by the love of one's country; directed to the public safety and welfare."

I believe the welfare of other people in my country is enhanced if we wear masks. It is a similar call of self sacrifice that was asked for in the second world war by those who observed black outs and other community restrictions for the greater good.Does it really matter if it only helps 5,10,15 or 20% of people not to become infected. To me its a minor inconvenience for the benefit of others.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8919 on: July 19, 2021, 08:23:15 AM »
I think I see where you're coming from lockdowns haven't proven to be the answer Sweden pretty much carried on as normal without huge numbers getting the virus, the one thing overlooked is the population and density of population England has a high population and a high density a double whammy when trying to fight a virus.

Sweden don't have huge numbers of Covid infections? Not on the face of it perhaps but infection rates per million are worth bearing in mind. Sweden's infection rate per million currently stands at 107,652 whereas the UK's infection rate per million is significantly lower at 79,608.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

As you suggest, Sweden's demographics in terms of population, density, age and underlying health conditions are different to our own. With that in mind I'd suggest that if the UK had adopted Sweden's approach we'd have been up a smelly brown creek without a paddle.
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gazberg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8920 on: July 19, 2021, 09:32:52 AM »
Face masks help reduce transmission end of discussion. The only thing to debate is by how much and how people should be advised on how to wear them effectively. I feel that wearing a mask is a patriotic. Patriotism is defined as

"Feeling, expressing, or inspired by love for one's country.
Full of patriotism; actuated by the love of country.
Inspired by the love of one's country; directed to the public safety and welfare."

I believe the welfare of other people in my country is enhanced if we wear masks. It is a similar call of self sacrifice that was asked for in the second world war by those who observed black outs and other community restrictions for the greater good.Does it really matter if it only helps 5,10,15 or 20% of people not to become infected. To me its a minor inconvenience for the benefit of others.


Brilliant opening sentence. No one's stopping you wearing your face mask. If you want too, go for it. I'm done with next to useless inconvenience and gestures personally. If these things worked we'd be in a much better place than we are.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8921 on: July 19, 2021, 09:46:33 AM »

Brilliant opening sentence. No one's stopping you wearing your face mask. If you want too, go for it. I'm done with next to useless inconvenience and gestures personally. If these things worked we'd be in a much better place than we are.


You are wrong. If people hadn't have worn masks we would have been in a worse place now. They did work.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2021, 12:36:14 PM by MarkW »

tuamigos

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8922 on: July 19, 2021, 10:12:03 AM »

Brilliant opening sentence. No one's stopping you wearing your face mask. If you want too, go for it. I'm done with next to useless inconvenience and gestures personally. If these things worked we'd be in a much better place than we are.

Or in a much worse place if they hadn't.
I don't say the masks are the be all and end all, but along with people learning how to keep their hands clean, social distancing and the other minute changes have combined to alleviate some of the problems.
I agree with Baggie Phil, I'll wear my mask in shops or enclosed surroundings to help protect others.
I imagine that's too much to ask for some people.
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8923 on: July 19, 2021, 10:23:28 AM »
Isn't the point with masks that they don't really protect you, but they do help protect others FROM you?

I've got no problem wearing a mask to protect others, I knew when wearing them that they don't really protect me but that doesn't matter. Up to others now how they feel in that regard about those around them.


On a slightly different note, I am finding the right wing presses latest obsession a bit off. The whole "PINGDEMIC! If you are double jabbed you shouldn't have to isolate" shtick. As somebody who is double jabbed but is current isolating with CoVID, I can tell you that you still get it, it just lessens the symptoms (my other half who isn't double jabbed is currently lying in bed unable to move while I'm chasing a crawling baby around the house with a bit of a headache and a temperature). There's a reason why the scientists aren't lifting restrictions for double jabbed people - ignore the press who have their own agenda.

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BB74

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8924 on: July 19, 2021, 10:24:23 AM »
It was nice to walk into the petrol garage* today mask free. 5 customers, 1 kiosk worker all without a mask. 1 customer with a mask. It will be interesting to see how this pans out over the next week.

*the one at the top of Roebuck by The Vine.