Author Topic: Guochuan Lai  (Read 2349631 times)

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PsalmXXIII

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #800 on: June 29, 2015, 09:19:59 PM »
I've had to set aside my fairly entrenched views on Peace.  We are soon to start our sixth consecutive season in the PL.  I think almost everything about the club has improved significantly during his tenure.  I doubt whether it would be possible to find a shorter or smoother ride to where we are today without that sugar daddy (or even with it - see wulfs).  I, kind of, feel proud when I see WBA (nil debt) 3 - 0 (£1bn debt) Chelsea...

I reserve my criticism of Peace for areas such as fan interaction, financial openness and the fact that someone who is a 'fan' can plan to benefit to the tune of £150m after recovering his initial investment many years ago.  As a fan I don't think I could just take all the money and retire to Barbados.  I'd want to find a way to pay my dues and share the benefit.  Maybe I'm weird?  I like £s, but I love West Brom.

Really valid views appreciate the mature, reasoned response to that question. And I agree to a degree; he's done well at the helm and taken us to a point where we are established in a league we had no chance of reaching without his work. And as much as he's an Albion fan but he's a business man. Maybe he sees his parting gift as passing us on to safe, rich hands eh? As much as your personal views on Peace are justified, his actions aren't to the detriment of the club. He's making money off someone else buying us - all revenue made by the club stays with the club. And as much as a rumoured £10m in salary over 15 years seems a lot, we spend over 5 times that per season on staff and make 7 times that per year in revenue. It's a drop in the ocean. How many of us would pay a manager £1m to keep us up each year.

Yamaka

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #801 on: June 29, 2015, 09:35:11 PM »
The most sense I have heard on this topic. Whilst I am not persuaded by the argument that staying within the law makes everything ok we  have to acknowledge work done.
I never could kwite get the hang of spelling.

Baggieblood

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #802 on: June 30, 2015, 03:25:37 AM »
Some fans are so naive when it's shocking.

They see JP as this messiah who has led us to the promised land.

The facts are different.

We had a good chairman in paul thompson who sanctioned the building of the east stand.

Peace joined the board with mike o'leary. Both claiming they were life long baggies.

Then using divide and rule tactics he ousted thompson by pitting him against god megson.

Then systematically, along with sister, he embarked on various share purcahse scheme all designed to squeeze out the small shareholder.

In his long tenure he's improved the ground by giving the eest stand £4m lick of paint.

The east stand corners are ripe for development, but no he says our fanbase cannot grow because we surrounded by other clubs.

He tried staying up the cheap way until he realised that he would have to pay prem wages to stay in it.

Jp cares about cash not the Albion.

Ever met anyone who ever sat next to him in life long following of our great club?

I haven't.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 06:34:31 AM by kris_boing »

WorcsWBA

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #803 on: June 30, 2015, 08:23:28 AM »
He's making money off someone else buying us - all revenue made by the club stays with the club.
That isn't strictly true though. The club's money has been used for everything that he's done as Chairman, either directly or by loans taken out by the club and repaid by the club. As I understand it, that includes the share purchases. However, once he sells his shares, the money he gets for them comes to him personally and doesn't stay within the club.

Yamaka

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #804 on: June 30, 2015, 08:45:37 AM »
It's not called the greed league for nothing. The problem I have is why we seem happy when players are mercenary and yet have an issue with a guy who has invested a good part of himself into the club over a few years now and will be leaving it in better shape than when he started. The amount of money swilling around is obscene to me personally but that is a separate issue. Money attracts a certain kind of person, to expect otherwise is naive. We must hope that whoever comes in next has at least the same regards for the club.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 08:49:48 AM by Yamaka »
I never could kwite get the hang of spelling.

PsalmXXIII

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #805 on: June 30, 2015, 08:50:28 AM »
That isn't strictly true though. The club's money has been used for everything that he's done as Chairman, either directly or by loans taken out by the club and repaid by the club. As I understand it, that includes the share purchases. However, once he sells his shares, the money he gets for them comes to him personally and doesn't stay within the club.

I'm referring to revenue by the club through prize money, gate receipts, sponsorship, etc. 75% of that revenue currently goes on player wages, and 25% on everything else the club does. Whoever buys the club is buying the potential to produce revenue and current assets.

By speculated figures (I'll use the worst figures as I'm sure I'll be criticised for not) Peace picked up £1.19m last year before tax. I'll point out that 3 years ago Levy at Spurs paid himself £2.2m, David Gill at United was paid £2.6m and Niall Quinn was paid £2.4m after resigning from a director position at Sunderland. Based on latest accounts 1.5% of our YEARLY revenue goes to JP compared to 75% to the players.

So there's clear evidence that he has enough money to buy the shares outright but unless you know the in's and out's of how our holding groups work, you can't make claims that he's not bought his shares outright. Either way he's done everything legally or he'd have been arrested. There's less senior directors at other clubs making much more money than Peace too. Don't hate the player hate the game.

Mr Cynical

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #806 on: June 30, 2015, 09:03:51 AM »
It's not called the greed league for nothing. The problem I have is why we seem happy when players are mercenary and yet have an issue with a guy who has invested a good part of himself into the club over a few years now and will be leaving it in better shape than when he started. The amount of money swilling around is obscene to me personally but that is a separate issue. Money attracts a certain kind of person, to expect otherwise is naive. We must hope that whoever comes in next has at least the same regards for the club.

That's a good point.

Modern football!

tommcneill

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #807 on: June 30, 2015, 09:08:30 AM »
Some fans are so naive when it's shocking.

They see JP as this messiah who has led us to the promised land.

The facts are different.

We had a good chairman in paul thompson who sanctioned the building of the east stand.

Peace joined the board with mike o'leary. Both claiming they were life long baggies.

Then using divide and rule tactics he ousted thompson by pitting him against god megson.

Then systematically, along with sister, he embarked on various share purcahse scheme all designed to squeeze out the small shareholder.

In his long tenure he's improved the ground by giving the eest stand £4m lick of paint.

The east stand corners are ripe for development, but no he says our fanbase cannot grow because we surrounded by other clubs.

He tried staying up the cheap way until he realised that he would have to pay prem wages to stay in it.

Jp cares about cash not the Albion.

Ever met anyone who ever sat next to him in life long following of our great club?

I haven't.

What a ridiculous statement....I bet ive never sat next to you does that mean you are not an Albion fan?

And unless you can prove your facts with cold hard evidence then its your opinion or something you have been told by someone else which again is secondary news
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paulosull

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #808 on: June 30, 2015, 09:24:49 AM »
What a ridiculous statement....I bet ive never sat next to you does that mean you are not an Albion fan?

And unless you can prove your facts with cold hard evidence then its your opinion or something you have been told by someone else which again is secondary news
Are you on JPs wage bill, just because someone has a different opinion of your mate dosnt mean their statement is wrong

Hayward1984

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #809 on: June 30, 2015, 09:44:22 AM »
No actually I agree with Tommy.

What's it matter if Peace has attended 1 or 10000000 games before owning the club?

People are having a massive laugh if they think Peace isn't going to try and make himself some wonger from the potential sale but it is a fact that under his chairmanship we've established ourselves in the Premiership, which prior to him was a distant dream.

Think some people are still carrying knives for him from a few years back and are desperate for something bad to happen to the club so they can be proved right.
"Time to show how big our balls are." - Paul Schnarer 14th Janurary.

Albion79

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #810 on: June 30, 2015, 09:57:12 AM »
JP runs a successful business, like all people who do that, he will reward himself handsomely, its the same in businesses all over the world.

West Bromwich Albion are a business, for us fans on matchday its entertainment (though not all the time!) but during the week it operates like any other business.

JP may be paying himself more than he was a few years back, i dont know but even if he is, the business is doing better than it was a few years back, its getting richer. JP isnt creaming all the profits and letting other parts of the club go to pot, we are paying bigger transfer fees, wages, got a nice ground, good academy, training centre, etc so all those are being improved as part of the business doing better.

Another chairman may have done a better job than JP, he has made mistakes but there isnt a single person in life or in business who hasnt! Everyone is entitled to their opinion but i have been going for nearly 30 years and even upto 15 or so years ago i never would of dreamed we would be in the position we are now, sadly due to football being the way it is we probably cant progress that much further without major investment but JP to me is the best chairman we have had in my lifetime by a million miles.

Thats not a love in with JP, its just a personal view but i know the West Bromwich Albion as a club today is a lot better than the one i started watching in 86/87. Its okay saying so and so would of done better, maybe they would but the fact remains JP was in charge of a club that has gone from championship relegation contenders to a established premiership club.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 10:01:34 AM by Albion79 »

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #811 on: June 30, 2015, 10:11:19 AM »
Are you on JPs wage bill, just because someone has a different opinion of your mate dosnt mean their statement is wrong

Sorry to disagree Paul but that IS a ridiculous statement.
1. Last 10yrs? unless you are a Director or VIP why would anyone be sat next to JP??
2. Prior to last 10 year, who would know or care if they were sat next to him?

Why people cannot acknowledge that we have the best VALUE chairman in the league (apart from Swansea maybe) is mind boggling to me.

Results, Infrastructure, Financial stability, Manager, all are in top class order, yes he has made mistakes, but he acknowledges that unless most of the megalomaniacs in modern football.

Long live JP, I really hope that if he sells he can be retained in a non-exec role, very likely on lots of shekels!
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baggyman68

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #812 on: June 30, 2015, 10:12:32 AM »
I dont mind Mr Peace making a it of Wonga on the sale but how much profit is enough for him on his original investment?
Just how much profit does he need 5,10,20.40 million quid? He has had a good few years of big wages out of the club and at times has deserved what he took, but if he really had the interests of the club in mind he would go for the right owner to bring investment in infrastructure and playing staff.
This is why he is not a supporter like the rest of us. Like all people with money playing their own real game of monopoly they can never be satisfied and greed takes over.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #813 on: June 30, 2015, 10:36:29 AM »
I think Mr Peace is seen either as a god or a devil, and will probably always be seen that way long after he's gone.

I must say the crush some poster's seem to have on him on here is a bit unnerving.  ;)

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #814 on: June 30, 2015, 10:39:01 AM »
I think Mr Peace is seen either as a god or a devil, and will probably always be seen that way long after he's gone.

I must say the crush some poster's seem to have on him on here is a bit unnerving.  ;)

Look at the alternatives and Dad (oops) is far and away the best option.
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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #815 on: June 30, 2015, 10:42:34 AM »
I dont mind Mr Peace making a it of Wonga on the sale but how much profit is enough for him on his original investment?
Just how much profit does he need 5,10,20.40 million quid? He has had a good few years of big wages out of the club and at times has deserved what he took, but if he really had the interests of the club in mind he would go for the right owner to bring investment in infrastructure and playing staff.
This is why he is not a supporter like the rest of us. Like all people with money playing their own real game of monopoly they can never be satisfied and greed takes over.

So what, people invest in high risk, high yield speculative shares like gold mining, oil exploration, start ups, microsoft, penny shares, they strike it lucky and get 1000 times more back than they invested.

How do you know Peace is not looking for the right owner - he has stated that he is?
What do you mean like the rest of us? Are you saying if you have some money you are not allowed to be a supporter like the rest of us.

I just can't believe how small minded and jealous of earned wealth some of our supporters are. No wonder the voters in Birmingham, and the Black Country vote the way they do. Life must be a burden with chips on both shoulders :(

PsalmXXIII

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #816 on: June 30, 2015, 10:46:06 AM »
I dont mind Mr Peace making a it of Wonga on the sale but how much profit is enough for him on his original investment?
Just how much profit does he need 5,10,20.40 million quid? He has had a good few years of big wages out of the club and at times has deserved what he took, but if he really had the interests of the club in mind he would go for the right owner to bring investment in infrastructure and playing staff.
This is why he is not a supporter like the rest of us. Like all people with money playing their own real game of monopoly they can never be satisfied and greed takes over.

I'll ask it again, why does what he makes from this deal matter with regards to the team and football? We don't lose any money! He's not taking any money out of the club whatsoever! Someone is paying him to take over the clubs revenue making potential. He's not decided to nick 5,000 seats to flog somewhere or all the silverware in the trophy room. He's selling his shares for a price someone is willing to pay. Call it greedy or whatever, it has absolutely no affect on the club and the clubs money or it's assets. If he was asset stripping by all means his sale of the club would be an issue but he's not. He's selling 80% (majority) ownership of the club and it's assets. The money earnt by the club stays there for the new owner of the shares to do what they wish with.

You've also said he's not a real fan because he's wants to make as much money as he can, and apparently isn't looking for the right owner to take over. I assume that means you know exactly who he's selling to to make that claim? 

It doesn't take a degree in economics to work out that you buy low, sell higher. It is without doubt that that's a trademark of Peace's business - look at how much he's made for the club from selling distinctly average players for more than they're worth, something everyone here has praised him for. Why is this any different? Buying and selling of assets is relatively simple and I guarantee if he'd sold the club for a fraction of what it's willing to be bought for people would complain.

baggyman68

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #817 on: June 30, 2015, 10:55:42 AM »
But why does he have to make the maximum amount of profit? You cant have it both ways mate!
Oh he's a business man and that's what he does and he's blue and white through and through!
How much money does a person need?
And why does it bother you so much that other people have a view different to yours? It was a CLUB before he came with a wide range of shareholders but he has mopped up the lot and now it is a business pure and simple. But what that business relies on is the loyalty and supports of the fans for it to continue and without them then its not worth anything.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #818 on: June 30, 2015, 11:11:24 AM »
Just before Gary Megson left, he said something along the lines of,it's nice for a club to make money but not at the expense of progressing on the field.
10 years on i don't think the club has progressed either on a playing level or in the terms of the stadium.

Mr Peace has great ambition when buying shares with the clubs money, but shows a lack of ambition when buying players.
He's a five o clock Bilston market visitor.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #819 on: June 30, 2015, 11:29:40 AM »
10 years on i don't think the club has progressed either on a playing level or in the terms of the stadium.

Are you joking?! You must be joking.

I don't need to explain why do I?

PsalmXXIII

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #820 on: June 30, 2015, 11:32:14 AM »
But why does he have to make the maximum amount of profit? You cant have it both ways mate!
Oh he's a business man and that's what he does and he's blue and white through and through!
How much money does a person need?
And why does it bother you so much that other people have a view different to yours? It was a CLUB before he came with a wide range of shareholders but he has mopped up the lot and now it is a business pure and simple. But what that business relies on is the loyalty and supports of the fans for it to continue and without them then its not worth anything.

Sadly I disagree on all counts.

Why SHOULDN'T he sell it for what someone is willing to pay? If nobody wanted the club at his asking price he wouldn't sell. What he sells the club for, for the fourth time, has NO influence on the clubs revenue. It doesn't matter one iota. So if he were to sell it for less, the only thing that would happen is he makes less money. Nothing else. Literally NOTHING. He could sell the club for 20p, we'd still make £70m+ per year, we'd still pay £50m+ on wages. He's not a charity. Saying he can't make as much money on the club as he wants makes him any less blue and white is such a flawed argument. What he sells the club for makes no difference whatsoever. Give me one reason, one reason at all why someone should sell something for less than someone is willing to pay? He's not taking any money in this deal from you, your family, the club, the players, the league or anyone except the new owners. I don't know how many times that needs to be explained. I can only see jealousy at someone making money, so please if you can find a reason why selling the club for the maximum amount someone is somehow damaging us as a club, tell me it.

And I get the sentiment towards simpler times and football for the love of the game, but when transfer fees and wages were introduced many many years ago, football clubs operated as businesses. You can't throw thousands, millions, billions of pounds worth of money around without being business-like. Christ anyone would think our best bet was to turn us into a non for profit organisation. Let's forget trying to get the best players and best facilities and just not worry about money at all. It baffles me how people can argue and protest at the amount of money in the league and then complain if we don't spend it. To be where we are in the football league system you need to spend money. We couldn't even begin to compete as a football team without making and spending money. Say we stopped operating as a business, not caring about spending money on the best players we can get, or attracting the best players we can afford wage wise, we'd fall so fast it'd make your head spin. To suggest we operate in any other way than a business is suicide. Yes it's because of the money in the game, yes I'd like us to give away free tickets and invest everything we make into the footballing side of things, but it wont happen. It'd kill us.

And the final point I disagree with, but not because I enjoy the fact that I do. This club does NOT rely on the loyalty of supporters. Not even slightly. We could have had an average attendance of fourteen last season, we'd still make £70m+ - football teams rely on the monetary rewards of success. Buy better players, perform better, get more money. Rinse and repeat. You could play every single Premier League game in front of empty stadiums and it'd make virtually no difference to the money a team makes. Portsmouth, Leeds, etc didn't drop out of the big leagues because fans turned away, it's because they acted poorly as a business.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #821 on: June 30, 2015, 11:44:00 AM »
Pompey and Leeds didn't act foolishly, they acted wrecklessly,in Pompeys case buying and paying players they couldn't afford, in the case of Leeds spending all the dosh in anticipation of a champions league run.

No one is asking for that here,just buying decent premier league players instead of gambling on lower league ones and crocks, and number 2 managers.

Hayward1984

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #822 on: June 30, 2015, 11:54:55 AM »
Some magical wind up merchants on this board.

Be sensible!
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Mr Cynical

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #823 on: June 30, 2015, 12:00:18 PM »
I think Mr Peace is seen either as a god or a devil, and will probably always be seen that way long after he's gone.

I must say the crush some poster's seem to have on him on here is a bit unnerving.  ;)

Its not just Peace its everything.  Some people defended and supported the appointment of Irvine - which is the most ridiculous thing that has happened during Peace's tenure, closely followed by selling all your strikers in the January transfer window without replacing them (when you're in a relegation battle) twice!  Berahino is either the new young god or a jumped up idiot (I think he's probably both).  After approximately 10 years service Brunt is either useless or brilliant, or best at full back rather than wide midfield... but he was never a good captain, right?  We can have an argument about anything.

I don't know if its the same on every forum, but views and positions are entrenched and the fan base is totally divided on all but the most positive issues.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #824 on: June 30, 2015, 12:17:24 PM »
Really hope we get some news soon.
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