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Do you want Sam to stay as manager?

Yes
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No
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Total Members Voted: 163

Author Topic: Sam Allardyce  (Read 599183 times)

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caravanc58

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #825 on: December 29, 2020, 10:28:50 PM »
first goal again knocked the stuffing out of these weak minded players who are not up for fight. Says it all really when our best player by a country mile is a young loanee from Chelsea.
The best player we've had for 20 years has been on the subs bench last two games, if you want a p!ayer who can carry the ball into the oppositions half instead of aimless hoofing then it's baffling that Pereira isn't starting.

WorcsWBA

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #826 on: December 29, 2020, 10:29:59 PM »
Fair play, we've all got an opinion but aside from the paragraph on Pereira and Diangana I couldn't disagree more.
Unsurprising as I can't remember a single post of yours that I've agreed with.

baggie82

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #827 on: December 29, 2020, 10:32:21 PM »
The best player we've had for 20 years has been on the subs bench last two games, if you want a p!ayer who can carry the ball into the oppositions half instead of aimless hoofing then it's baffling that Pereira isn't starting.

The failure to play Pereira tonight is even more indefensible when you consider he was fresh, in a team that played two days ago and apparently had chronic fitness problems against the fittest side in the league! Tonight's performance and result was humiliating for Albion and for Allardyce. His first concern will be to try to protect his own reputation. The only person who came out of tonight with any credit was Bilic. 

TheJacko2000

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #828 on: December 29, 2020, 10:33:20 PM »
Unsurprising as I can't remember a single post of yours that I've agreed with.

And yet I'd imagine we'd get on like a house on fire if we met in person 😂

Same goes for a few members.
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boinging_along

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #829 on: December 29, 2020, 10:34:51 PM »
We never looked like winning a game under the last bloke playing to their supposed strengths. The game we won was daylight robbery. Things had to change  :-\

We don't look like winning a game now.  In fact, we look even further away seeing as we can't even get the ball into the oppositions half.

It seems pretty logical to me.  If you don't play to the squads strengths then you're not going to get the best results out of them.  That has to be true by definition. 

You seem to think that any change has to be better - that's clearly not the case.  9 goals conceded and barely an effort on goal proves that. You think losing 5-0 at home to a team like Leeds while not offering a threat is an improvement on Bilic's results?

TheJacko2000

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #830 on: December 29, 2020, 10:37:24 PM »
We don't look like winning a game now.  In fact, we look even further away seeing as we can't even get the ball into the oppositions half.

It seems pretty logical to me.  If you don't play to the squads strengths then you're not going to get the best results out of them.  That has to be true by definition. 

You seem to think that any change has to be better - that's clearly not the case.  9 goals conceded and barely an effort on goal proves that. You think losing 5-0 at home to a team like Leeds while not offering a threat is an improvement on Bilic's results?

No we were poor tonight. But it's bigger than the bloke who's had 10 days to work with them and a period of games I expected 0 points under Slav.
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boinging_along

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #831 on: December 29, 2020, 10:37:36 PM »
LIvermore sent off 30 mins in so to be expected. Tonight was awful but you cant plan for Sawyers and Furlong playing how they did and i always said this when Bilic was in charge in those kind of circumstances. They killed the game for us.

We didn't offer any kind of threat in any of the games so far.  These haven't been "ooh, a bit unlucky" results - they've been "completely outplayed and not laid a glove on them" performances.  And it's absolutely not surprise when you try and park the bus for 90 minutes that teams with quality players can score goals.

baggiejohn

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #832 on: December 29, 2020, 10:37:55 PM »
Who's going to want them and, even if someone does, why would they be willing to go and earn less money?

Can't disagree, but if my coach had hung me out to dry in public, I think I would have been looking for another club.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

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The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

boinging_along

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #833 on: December 29, 2020, 10:40:54 PM »
No we were poor tonight. But it's bigger than the bloke who's had 10 days to work with them and a period of games I expected 0 points under Slav.

I'd agree if there were any positives at all but there haven't been any.  We're using tactics clearly not suited to the team and getting the performances you'd expect.  We don't know what Bilic would have got, or what another manager would have got, what we do know is we've had 3 games now where we've been outplayed massively and not even looked a remote threat.

alex1

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #834 on: December 29, 2020, 10:41:38 PM »
The best player we've had for 20 years has been on the subs bench last two games, if you want a p!ayer who can carry the ball into the oppositions half instead of aimless hoofing then it's baffling that Pereira isn't starting.
That is indeed mind boggling. And he should have been extra fit from only playing 30 mins on Sunday. As it is, he looked lost when he eventually came on. He seemed to be playing up front for which he is totally unsuited. It looks like his skills are just being ignored. His game is based on getting on the ball in the middle and setting up attacks with clever passes. Him and Krov buzzing was this team at its best.
I do have some sympathy for Sam in that there weren't any other alternatives for Grant, but Pereira should have been involved from the start.
Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

gazberg

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #835 on: December 29, 2020, 10:42:30 PM »
We didn't offer any kind of threat in any of the games so far.  These haven't been "ooh, a bit unlucky" results - they've been "completely outplayed and not laid a glove on them" performances.  And it's absolutely not surprise when you try and park the bus for 90 minutes that teams with quality players can score goals.

No we fully deserved a point against one of the top 3 teams in the world at their place and ended their ridiculously good winning streak.

Villa game we started poor but then good ole nobby got himself sent off with 2/3rds of the game remaining.

Tonight was appalling granted. Everyone looked exhausted because they were because they are not fit enough. If he changed the XI though and we lost then Allardyce would have been beaten with the "Why change the team after a great result" stick till he was dead.

caravanc58

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #836 on: December 29, 2020, 10:42:41 PM »
What was the Phillips- Ivanovic sub in aid of?
Says it all about Allardyce when you play the last 30 minutes of a game without a recognised striker on the pitch.
Zero ambition from start to finish to win the game.

TAFKATMNo1Fan

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #837 on: December 29, 2020, 10:47:11 PM »
What was the Phillips- Ivanovic sub in aid of?
Says it all about Allardyce when you play the last 30 minutes of a game without a recognised striker on the pitch.
Zero ambition from start to finish to win the game.

I assume Ivanovic was sent on to make sure the game didnt end 0-8

baggie82

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #838 on: December 29, 2020, 10:50:00 PM »
What was the Phillips- Ivanovic sub in aid of?
Says it all about Allardyce when you play the last 30 minutes of a game without a recognised striker on the pitch.
Zero ambition from start to finish to win the game.

A desperate move and early sign of madness. All out defence had resulted in a thrashing, the management response? Bring on another centre back of course.  Jacko has a reasonable point that Allardyce has only had 10 days but the changes he had made so far have damaged the team. I can forgive him for not improving us but to get us playing this badly and illogically, he deserves criticism. His all out attack on the players in the press also bodes badly for the future. He admitted himself he is not sure who we can bring in, in January. The core of his team will have to be from this squad.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #839 on: December 29, 2020, 10:52:46 PM »
I assume Ivanovic was sent on to make sure the game didnt end 0-8

This.

At 4-0 down we're getting nothing out of the game, it's damage limitation.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #840 on: December 29, 2020, 10:56:40 PM »
There is no way Allardyce is getting a whole new squad in January he will get 4 additions at most (I hope he gets none but that's different issue) so he has to work with what he has got and there is the small matter of 5 league games between now and the end of January. If we lose all 5 it will seal our fate before any new players have any sort of impact.

As it stands the ham fisted attempt at keeping us up is going to do more damage than had we just let the season bleed out under Bilic.

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gazberg

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #841 on: December 29, 2020, 10:58:11 PM »
There is no way Allardyce is getting a whole new squad in January he will get 4 additions at most (I hope he gets none but that's different issue) so he has to work with what he has got and there is the small matter of 5 league games between now and the end of January. If we lose all 5 it will seal our fate before any new players have any sort of impact.

As it stands the ham fisted attempt at keeping us up is going to do more damage than had we just let the season bleed out under Bilic.

Should have spent nothing apart from what we were obliged too and gone down with the money for next year.

Manc Baggie

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #842 on: December 29, 2020, 11:00:09 PM »
I agree with all of that. I'm trying to understand the mindset of those who still wanted Bilic to go after the Man City draw, who then were falling over each other to hail Allardyce as Corberan for the Liverpool result (when on another day we could have been 4-0 down at half-time in that game too) and, finally, who are now blaming the players, rather than the teflon-coated Allardyce, for tonight's worst performance for many years.

It was clear when the transfer window closed that the squad hadn't been strengthened enough to be able to compete in this league. It's not Bilic's fault that he wasn't given the tools with which to do the job. No-one objected to us signing Pereira and few complained about us signing Diangana. Both, at the time, were regarded as being excellent business despite it using up most of our paltry budget.

There was plenty to be dissatisfied about regarding Bilic's later tactics but, Man City apart, at least we made some attempt to have an attacking threat. So far, Allardyce has employed exactly the same approach as Pulis would have in every game so far. It should now be clear to him that this squad is even less capable of using his preferred tactic than it was for what Bilic tried.

Either Allardyce needs to change his approach or the Board needs to find a magic money tree to change more than half of the squad to try to mould it into Allardyce's Pulis-like vision that of putting out a side that tries to keep a clean sheet by defending its penalty area in numbers whilst hoping to nick one from a set piece at the other end. Allardyce has implied that he wants to sign players with plenty of Premier League experience. The only such players we're likely to be able to get are those who are the wrong side of 30. What will this leave us with for next season following what now looks like an inevitable relegation?

There's much criticism of the players' fitness this evening, but few are linking it to what would have been an unchanged side playing twice in 48 hours had Gibbs not suffered an almost predictable pre-match injury. Players' fitness can very easily be assessed outside matches, so it doesn't take a genius to realise that playing the same side again 48 hours later after the immense effort against Liverpool would be asking for trouble. Yet Allardyce did that, but people prefer to blame the players rather than him because it doesn't fit in with their currently baseless "Big Sam walks on water" mentality.

If this squad is good at anything at all, it's counter-attacking with pace, skill and purpose, which Leeds are employing to pretty good effect overall. If more than half the side can't be replaced, then it seems reasonable to give that appraoch another go and, perhaps, have your best player on the pitch in the middle, where he's most threatening, rather than leaving him on the bench and preferring the likes of Phillips to him.

Unless we want to keep being tonked every game, we're about to find out just how flexible Allardyce is with his tactical approach. The signs so far is that he's only going to play one way and it won't be pretty and will be even less effective than what Bilic was doing. Yet there are those who are keen to see him doing the same thing in the Championship next season, when we showed last season that you can get out of that league without having to employ increasingly discredited dinosaur football.

Ultimately however, only one thing will give our club any hope for the future, and that's for it to be sold, with all those currently involved at a high level on the non-playing side leaving (including Dowling). Hopefully they can be replaced by people who know about football, have vision and creativity, and can actually come up with a plan that befits this once proud club of ours that has, once again as it was when Pulis and Pardew were here, become a laughing stock.

Absolutely spot on.
An excellent, sane, well thought out & entirely rational summary of our current messiah manager & club.




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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #843 on: December 29, 2020, 11:04:07 PM »
A desperate move and early sign of madness. All out defence had resulted in a thrashing, the management response? Bring on another centre back of course.  Jacko has a reasonable point that Allardyce has only had 10 days but the changes he had made so far have damaged the team. I can forgive him for not improving us but to get us playing this badly and illogically, he deserves criticism. His all out attack on the players in the press also bodes badly for the future. He admitted himself he is not sure who we can bring in, in January. The core of his team will have to be from this squad.
Yeah, I have the same concern. Some will probably say they need a kick up the backside, but attacking your own players in public before you have built any sort of relationship with them isn't great man management to say the least.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #844 on: December 29, 2020, 11:05:50 PM »
Problem if and when we go down the club will want us to come straight back up again rather than let us try and build an identity, invest in youth and have a long term plan for success they will sack a manager if we arent top of the league like they did with Big Dave (although I agreed with his departure at the time) then if we do go up and are near the bottom again they will sack him and we will just round in circles again. As a supporter I'd have no problems with a few seasons in the championship building a team the club want instant success and an obsession at being in the premier league at all costs the problem is everybody else in the league is shopping at Harrods and we are shopping at Aldi

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #845 on: December 29, 2020, 11:08:13 PM »
There is no way Allardyce is getting a whole new squad in January he will get 4 additions at most (I hope he gets none but that's different issue) so he has to work with what he has got and there is the small matter of 5 league games between now and the end of January. If we lose all 5 it will seal our fate before any new players have any sort of impact.

As it stands the ham fisted attempt at keeping us up is going to do more damage than had we just let the season bleed out under Bilic.

abso kin lutely,   I am off to bed dreading Sam being there tomorrow but also dreading him going because these idiots will be on the phone to Pulis !??!
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Manc Baggie

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #846 on: December 29, 2020, 11:14:04 PM »
The best player we've had for 20 years has been on the subs bench last two games, if you want a p!ayer who can carry the ball into the oppositions half instead of aimless hoofing then it's baffling that Pereira isn't starting.
The best player we have & would easily get in the majority of other prem sides, (outside of the top 6 teams) Pereria is already worth way more than we paid for him, so in the absence of the owner pumping in some investment cash (I know how ridiculously unimaginable this is for us fans) or the club discovering a copse of magic money trees growing round the back of the training ground, I won’t be surprised if the club sell Pereria to raise funds for some pulis BS type of players.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 12:18:20 AM by MarkW »

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #847 on: December 29, 2020, 11:16:45 PM »
Regarding WorcsWBA’s post, I will say that I’m not sure about criticising BS for playing the same side. I understand player fitness and 2 games in 3 days, but Leeds played the same XI as the other day and ran us off the park.

The fitness of the players lies at the door of the previous regime. 

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #848 on: December 29, 2020, 11:17:22 PM »
Regarding WorcsWBA’s post, I will say that I’m not sure about criticising BS for playing the same side. I understand player fitness and 2 games in 3 days, but Leeds played the same XI as the other day and ran us off the park.

The fitness of the players lies at the door of the previous regime.

the same physios and fitness team who were in place before SB and are still in place ! ?  If SB had sacked them al after we lost the academy team to Vile and the medics to leicester ????
« Last Edit: December 29, 2020, 11:20:00 PM by Albionic »
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baggie82

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #849 on: December 29, 2020, 11:17:43 PM »
The best player we have & would easily get in the majority of other prem sides, (outside of the top 6 teams) Pereria is already worth way more than we paid for him, so in the absence of the owner pumping in some investment cash (I know how ridiculously unimaginable this is for us fans) or the club discovering a copse of magic money trees growing round the back of the training ground, I won’t be surprised if the club sell Pereria to raise funds for some pulis Allardyce type of players.

The only chance of success is to bring in quality players to play alongside Pereira. If you sell your best players you end up dropping down the leagues into the abyss.