[royhan]

Izzy Brown who opted for Chelsea’s big bucks and a London lifestyle instead of developing his talent at the club that gave him his big opportunity has now gone on loan to Luton. I can’t help thinking that his career would have moved forward much quicker if he had remained at The Hawthorns

[sammyg]

Izzy Brown who opted for Chelsea’s big bucks and a London lifestyle instead of developing his talent at the club that gave him his big opportunity has now gone on loan to Luton. I can’t help thinking that his career would have moved forward much quicker if he had remained at The Hawthorns

Luton are in the same league as us this season mate

[Albionic]

Luton are in the same league as us this season mate

Same division, will NEVER be in our league 

[SmethDan]

Izzy Brown who opted for Chelsea’s big bucks and a London lifestyle instead of developing his talent at the club that gave him his big opportunity has now gone on loan to Luton. I can’t help thinking that his career would have moved forward much quicker if he had remained at The Hawthorns

Given he was developing nicely while on loan abroad I think his biggest problem has been injuries as opposed to his London life style. He could have picked those injuries up here just as likely as there but I know which move provided more for he and his family. I'd have loved him to stay or even come back on loan but the protracted nature of his departure, subsequent low fee and acrimony between our board of the time and Chelsea's put an end to that.

[LiamTheBaggie]

I've just been having a read of some of the going on's at Bury - staggering.

Their recent takeover went through without the approval of the EFL.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jul/11/bury-takeover-without-full-football-league-approval-transfer-embargo-efl

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/23/bury-players-12-weeks-without-pay-owner-steve-dale

It seems that the previous owner Stewart Day took a variety of loans with high monthly interests rates and secured them against Gigg Lane. He's now flung the club into the hands of an unknown associate who seemingly specialises in insolvent companies and liquidation.

Most of Day's property business have all entered administration. HMRC are owed around £1million.

[skyclad99]

I've just been having a read of some of the going on's at Bury - staggering.

Their recent takeover went through without the approval of the EFL.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jul/11/bury-takeover-without-full-football-league-approval-transfer-embargo-efl

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/23/bury-players-12-weeks-without-pay-owner-steve-dale

It seems that the previous owner Stewart Day took a variety of loans with high monthly interests rates and secured them against Gigg Lane. He's now flung the club into the hands of an unknown associate who seemingly specialises in insolvent companies and liquidation.

Most of Day's property business have all entered administration. HMRC are owed around £1million.

An absolute nightmare for Bury fans... but for the grace of god etc

Given all of the money in ther game in the top league I think that the great footballing minds should get together and help clubs like Bury and Bolton etc to save them from going out of business. Not necessarily give them money, but to loan them the funds to save them and to have an administration in place to ensure that they do not go out of business. After all, these are the feeder clubs that some of our better players come through.

and here we are discussing our goalkeeper and centre back..........puts it all in perspective to me.

[Adder]

An absolute nightmare for Bury fans... but for the grace of god etc

Given all of the money in ther game in the top league I think that the great footballing minds should get together and help clubs like Bury and Bolton etc to save them from going out of business. Not necessarily give them money, but to loan them the funds to save them and to have an administration in place to ensure that they do not go out of business. After all, these are the feeder clubs that some of our better players come through.

and here we are discussing our goalkeeper and centre back..........puts it all in perspective to me.

It's a fair point you make but there is another argument that says, there are clubs surviving on a very tight budget who also wouldn't mind a bit of a handout as security. Would it make clubs lazier if they knew there was bail out available if they went bust ?
Newport is the situation I know best. As most will know, they went bust were reformed as a new club by supporters, forced to play outside Wales and have progressed through the pyramid to the league 2 play off final last season and cup games against Man City, Spurs and Leicester in the last 2 seasons. It's an ongoing situation which could tail off again but they know the dangers of over ambition through experience.

[elmo_in_swansea]

In addition to the above comments on Newport there's a documentary about them on bbc iplayer 'giantkillers the team that wouldn't die' incidently my wife saw her late father in some of the footage also, there's a rather interesting programme about Fort William FC in the Highland league called 'The Fort' they have hadn't won a game in over 600 days iirc on the same platform

[LiamTheBaggie]

The Premier League should not be used a bail out for league clubs whom have not conducted their finances appropriately.

If anything, you are purely going to encourage other clubs to speculate to accumulate or run football clubs disastrously, knowing there is a pool of money to assist them should it go tits up.

Premier League clubs, however, should remove the loan fee to those in the football league. It should be focused towards player development and not fleecing lower league clubs out of funds.

Moreso, it also needs the football league to take a good look at themselves really. There is no way that they should allow their member clubs to be run so disastrously. What the heck are they doing?

[skyclad99]

It's a fair point you make but there is another argument that says, there are clubs surviving on a very tight budget who also wouldn't mind a bit of a handout as security. Would it make clubs lazier if they knew there was bail out available if they went bust ?
Newport is the situation I know best. As most will know, they went bust were reformed as a new club by supporters, forced to play outside Wales and have progressed through the pyramid to the league 2 play off final last season and cup games against Man City, Spurs and Leicester in the last 2 seasons. It's an ongoing situation which could tail off again but they know the dangers of over ambition through experience.

To clarify, I was not proposing handouts, but loans to keep the clubs solvent under they can be sorted out financially. I would not see it as a 'speculate to accumulate' scenario and any loan if possible would be secured against the ground etc.
Unscrupulous owners are starting to become the scourge of the earth and it is likely that more clubs will eventually go to the wall like Bury.........
Personally I think the big boys are in a position to help, but I appear to be on my own.

[gerry m]

I've just been having a read of some of the going on's at Bury - staggering.

Their recent takeover went through without the approval of the EFL.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jul/11/bury-takeover-without-full-football-league-approval-transfer-embargo-efl

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/23/bury-players-12-weeks-without-pay-owner-steve-dale

It seems that the previous owner Stewart Day took a variety of loans with high monthly interests rates and secured them against Gigg Lane. He's now flung the club into the hands of an unknown associate who seemingly specialises in insolvent companies and liquidation.

Most of Day's property business have all entered administration. HMRC are owed around £1million.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/bury-on-the-brink-a-day-in-the-life-of-a-dying-club/ar-AAGdnwO?ocid=spartandhp

[Droitwich Baggie]

Why doesn't Sky and BT contribute more?
Bury wanted help and they were left begging.
It stinks about how much money is thrown at the Premeiership and it is drown or swim for the rest.
Edit...
No moral help even.

[Standaman]

Why doesn't Sky and BT contribute more?
Bury wanted help and they were left begging.
It stinks about how much money is thrown at the Premeiership and it is drown or swim for the rest.
Edit...
No moral help even.

BT and Sky contribute plenty but it is then the various football authorities that decide what to do with the money. There is enough money in football to sustain the game from top to bottom without subsidy. Yet football chooses to urine the money up the wall by paying £500,000 a week to a player who is now being desperately hawked around Europe because his club don't want him or £100m plus transfer fees or £40m being paid to an agent to arrange a transfer, or pick any other obscene waste of money there are plenty of examples.

In Bury's case the question is how do you throw the club a lifeline without helping out the shyster ownership? The only sanction the EFL when the owners ignore the rules is against the club. If the ownership don't care about the club then what leverage does the league have?

In all of this people lose sight of what the EFL is. It is an association of clubs and the club ownership including all the shysters won't give the EFL the sort of power that it requires to stop bad ownership from reducing a club to the state that Bury and Bolton find themselves. Were football clubs franchises then the League would have real contractual muscle but it does not possess the sort of power that can really hold owners to account.

If you look at FFP which for the most part was introduced to protect clubs from their owners stupidity instead of complying ownerships have used all sorts of ruses to circumvent the rules, the latest wheeze being the sale and lease back of a clubs ground. This is madness and it would appear that the League is powerless to prevent it.

With an hour and a half left before the deadline this from the BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49455433


Dale says the League One club has been sold to a football analytics company.

Well we wait and see I wouldn't take that cheque to the bank just yet.

[OldburyWBA]

Just seen that Dale apparently has 43 liquidations to his name and the EFL admitted to not doing proper checks on his as the club "were in financial trouble", the mind boggles.

[NJS]

…
In all of this people lose sight of what the EFL is. It is an association of clubs and the club ownership including all the shysters won't give the EFL the sort of power that it requires to stop bad ownership from reducing a club to the state that Bury and Bolton find themselves. Were football clubs franchises then the League would have real contractual muscle but it does not possess the sort of power that can really hold owners to account.
...

Thanks for this.  What it seems to imply is that the EFL is a private club that can make its own rules and behave how it wants as long it doesn't defraud or affect anyone outside the club?  As supporters we are merely observers.

[johnny Cash]

Apparently £7m of Bury’s debt was sold for £70k to a company owned by Dale’s daughter’s husband. The evidence for this seems strong.

As part of the CVA, a quarter of the debt should be paid. So the daughters husbands company should be paid £1.75m. 

Blokes a crook, should jail Dale and his Daughters husband as it’s clearly defrauding genuine creditors

[Standaman]

Thanks for this.  What it seems to imply is that the EFL is a private club that can make its own rules and behave how it wants as long it doesn't defraud or affect anyone outside the club?  As supporters we are merely observers.

In law which is the only means that anyone has to compel an entity to do something it is disinclined to do at best you are a customer. Unless fans own clubs collectively which there is little or no tradition of in this country that is the extent of our rights.

I find this issue hugely frustrating in that the one thing that fixes the issue is a root and branch reform of how the income within the game is distributed which is not going to happen. If anything the distribution of the games income will become less rather than more equitable.

Bad ownership is as much as a symptom as a cause of the problem.

 Let me explain. It is very difficult to run a club outside the top 2 flights on a break even sustainable basis. Often clubs require owner subsidy to survive. There is a limited pool of owners willing to take on the challenge and often the League and a clubs fans are just grateful that someone is prepared to step up to the plate. While they maybe able to pass whatever test at the point of purchase it does not mean that the whole thing won't fall apart when the enterprise hits the first set back. Nor does it mean the owner isn't a complete megalomaniac in point of fact the ownership model positively encourages that type of owner.

Once an ownership is in situ, there is precious little anyone can do about it. The sanctions available to the league e.g. points deductions etc.. punish the club and the fans but unless there is an alternative ownership waiting in the wings largely leave the ownership unscathed. 

It is a mess and everything the League has done to date is largely a sticking plaster.

[skyclad99]

I know that there has been some rumblings in the press about it, but I would have thought that a club like Man Utd could come in here and take ownership of the club, and use it as a feeder club for themselves - a Man Utd B team so to speak. I am not suggesting for one second that the crooks who are currently involved should receive one penny but I am pretty sure that this could be an arrangement that would benefit both Bury and MUFC

If there is evidence of malfeasance then it needs to be dealt with appropriately.

[johnny Cash]

I know that there has been some rumblings in the press about it, but I would have thought that a club like Man Utd could come in here and take ownership of the club, and use it as a feeder club for themselves - a Man Utd B team so to speak. I am not suggesting for one second that the crooks who are currently involved should receive one penny but I am pretty sure that this could be an arrangement that would benefit both Bury and MUFC

If there is evidence of malfeasance then it needs to be dealt with appropriately.

It’s against the rules I think for one club in the system to own another. It happens in Spain where the Barca / Real reserves are in the system but cannot be promoted to La liga. It has been suggested over here to help player development in the past but it’s always been rejected to protect the integrity of the 92. 

[skyclad99]

It’s against the rules I think for one club in the system to own another. It happens in Spain where the Barca / Real reserves are in the system but cannot be promoted to La liga. It has been suggested over here to help player development in the past but it’s always been rejected to protect the integrity of the 92.

I am aware that there cannot be direct ownership, but I am sure that a way can be found where Bury can be 'assisted' by a bigger club

[Hunnington Baggie]

I am aware that there cannot be direct ownership, but I am sure that a way can be found where Bury can be 'assisted' by a bigger club

in a way like the City group or Red Bull teams?

[TheJacko2000]

Big Dave done the Cowley bros today. Up the Donny!!

[tommcneill]

I dont think any club should be helping out Bury personally. Why should they? and What precedence would it set for other clubs in the lower reaches??

If Bury go out of business then another team from the National League who are run correctly get their opportunity for league football or to come back into the league structure.

Im with Bury fans but ultimately no club should be funding a lower league club out of their own pockets.

This would also get the EFL off the hook for their very poor management.

What I feel should happen though is a redistributon of a percentage of Prem TV money down the leagues. But we all know the Premier League was created to keep the money to themselves and as a separate entity to the Football League.

Like they did when the big clubs made sure that instead of home attendance money being split 50/50 and giving a club a cashflow every week they kept the money to themselves which then ensured that clubs like Burnley and us etc could not win the league title again as we could no longer compete financially with clubs with 50/60/70k+ attendances each week compared to 25-30k like we had.

I'd have 10-15% of the Prem TV money redistributed between the lower leagues. Football is a like a house of cards, weaken the bottom and the top will fall in.

I love that we have a 92 team professional football league (with many non-league also professional these days) and we have to make sure that its existence is not threatened. There is billions sloshing around in the Prem whilst other clubs are running at a loss lower down. A lot of this comes from the big clubs paying young players huge amounts of money who dont make it then have unreal wage expectations when they ultimately get released from these clubs and have to drop down to make a career.

I hope Bury can be saved, but where one league club dies another team lower down who is run correctly can rise and have their day in the sun

[Droitwich Baggie]

Bolton's EFL future under renewed threat after takeover deal collapses.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49470865

They have to be saved by 17:00 BST on Tuesday, but I can't find a date to say which Tuesday.

[Standaman]

Bolton's EFL future under renewed threat after takeover deal collapses.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49470865

They have to be saved by 17:00 BST on Tuesday, but I can't find a date to say which Tuesday.

That is tomorrow. The administrators aren't messing around here if there was any chance of doing this quietly behind the scenes that is the path they would chose to take. It would appear that at the centre of this is a dispute between the current ownership and the Eddie Davis Trust who are owed £7m. How either party has any equity left in this is beyond me but that is where we are at the moment and it is hard to see this being resolved.