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Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14550 on: May 17, 2017, 05:42:41 PM »
I'd like people to answer this.

What do you think the rest of the country thinks when they watch games like that last night?

We were time wasting after 17 minutes for God's sake.  It was totally and utterly unacceptable for me.  I ended up watching the play off semi.  I can't remember turning an Albion game over in my life, I'm a season ticket holder and will go no matter what.  There were three games on last night, I would bet we were the least watched of the three.  This is because we are unwatchable to the watching public without a vested interest in the teams.

These are the sort of games that make my blood boil.  I enjoyed Friday, even though we defended most of the time, and did it well, we did carry a threat.


Probably the same thing they thought watching Manchester United at Anfield except we haven't got a 90 million pound central midfielder.
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Offline Manc Baggie

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14551 on: May 17, 2017, 06:26:22 PM »
I am not sure he does beechy, I think its psychological in the players minds to be honest. When you think about it, after we got to 40 points we had nothing else to play for [other than the shirt and pride]. Take Chelsea for instance, win on Friday and they are the champions, Man City - fighting for a Champions league spot. Admittedly we have come up against other teams with not so much to play for, but would we be playing differently or better if [hypothetically] we were in a cup final or we were chasing a European spot? I still see TP on the sidelines shouting at his players to 'take him on' etc

There is no evidence available to confirm that he tells his players after 40 points 'job done, put your feet up' - if anyone believes that for one second.......

I suppose we have only noticed it with TP because we have hit the target with games to spare, and our relegation dogfight is not going down to the final couple of games.

There is evidence of some kind of switch off after 40 points & the common factor is tp.
There was a stat on the bbc sports page when we played Leicester which confirmed that tp teams in the prem's record after reaching 40 points was played 43 won 6. This is now played 46 won 6.
Regardless of playing style, which is another issue altogether, I can't see how anyone can defend this stat as acceptable or that tp is not at the heart of it.
I doubt the club will be in any hurry to see the back of tp with his 40 point & safety first approach, its practically risk ( & often entertainment ) free but makes great sense from an investment & business point of view.
Its us fans I feel are getting short changed.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 06:48:54 PM by Manc Baggie »

Offline ex coseley kid

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14552 on: May 17, 2017, 10:47:42 PM »
Barclays Premier Manager Award? Don't make me laugh my moobs off.
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Offline ex coseley kid

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14553 on: May 17, 2017, 10:48:19 PM »
Yes. I'm a Pulis Pendulum. But it's a very shallow swing.
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Offline Albion79

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14554 on: May 18, 2017, 11:55:20 AM »
Stating the obvious but its a massive summer for the club.

I think both parties need to go into the end of season meeting with an open mind.

Obviously after the meeting things may change but i would offering Pulis a one year extension and setting him a target of 60 points and ideally a decent cup run for next season.

I think the 40 points becomes an obsession and once we hit it, sub conciously the mentality changes, i think if we could of had another 10-12 points to what we have had the  target been set, the players have tried but the mentality has changed.

I think this season has progressed from last season, spread the season into four and the the middle two quarters were good, i felt we played some decent stuff, we are not going to be a great footballing side under Pulis but we played good attacking stuff, sadly the last quarter of the season has overshadowed that.

I have no doubt most seasons we could probably hit 40 points because i think some of our players are experienced short term fixes who get the job done, however as owners looking to break into the far east market i would think the target has to be better than 40 points, we wont attract much attention that way.

Whether we like it or not Pulis has a type of player and style, i think defensive minded players have improved a lot under him but attacking players havent.

Although pleased in one way of the signing of Chadli i did wonder at the time if he was really the type of player we would get the best out of, in an ideal world we would be looking for that classy player to improve us, the reality is the way we play we are better with the Phillips, Mcleans, etc. In a different team i have no doubt Chadli would be quality but i just dont think he fits how we play so there is no point us signing players like that.

Like say above Pulis has a type of player and style so we may as well get the best possible players we can who play that way rather than sign players who dont fit the style and convert / waste them.

Same applies to a certain extent with Rondon, in a playing sense i feel sorry for him as he knows most of the game he is fighting a lost cause, he is a very different player to the one we first signed and i think his head has gone, and whoever we replace him with will probably be the same in 18 months time, but you have to milk them for the 12-18 months leading upto it.

Personally i dont think Pulis can change his style or ways but he has steadied the ship and i think deserves another season and if we can buy players, improve certain aspects of our play (we are never going to be Man City possession wise but lately our ball retention is shocking) be more positive in our targets and our playing style and make the those two good season quarters into three good season quarters then thats good.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2017, 11:58:42 AM by Albion79 »

Offline KnaveofAlbion

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14555 on: May 18, 2017, 12:15:51 PM »
With so much change going on behind the scenes Pulis was needed to steady the front of house at least. I even think a 2nd season of stability is a good idea for the big picture. But if Pulis (given the investment he'll be getting this summer) can't break 50 points and isn't bare minimum 12th next season then he must be moved on.

At a certain point we need to break the mindset that we're lucky and happy to be here. Next season is our 8th in a row in the Prem and our 11th out of 15 (off the top of my head).

We have every right to consider ourself a Prem team now and as so we should aim to be improving year on year, not just "we survived, brilliant! Job done lads". The above post by 79 is bang on about mentality, even if it's subconcious.

Personally I'd rather watch a 2-2 than a 0-0 and i'd rather lose 3-2 than 1-0, so our lack of effort in attack has taken a huge chunk of the fun out for me, especially seeing as we're not keeping clean sheets anymore.

Give Pulis this last year. If it's not noticably better then part ways.
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Online Hull Baggie

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14556 on: May 18, 2017, 12:18:49 PM »
There is evidence of some kind of switch off after 40 points & the common factor is tp.
There was a stat on the bbc sports page when we played Leicester which confirmed that tp teams in the prem's record after reaching 40 points was played 43 won 6. This is now played 46 won 6.
Regardless of playing style, which is another issue altogether, I can't see how anyone can defend this stat as acceptable or that tp is not at the heart of it.
I doubt the club will be in any hurry to see the back of tp with his 40 point & safety first approach, its practically risk ( & often entertainment ) free but makes great sense from an investment & business point of view.
Its us fans I feel are getting short changed.

It's not just under Pulis though. Under Hodgson and Clarke we struggled once we were safe, we struggled under Mel too but that had nothing to do with being safe.

I am disappointed with the way this season has panned out, especially the way we've mostly (not) played since we hit the 40 point mark and to take 5 points from the available 33 is unacceptable, especially as in the previous 11 games we got 20 points.

Pulis has to take some blame, probably most of it but I just don't think you can lay all the blame at Pulis's door, the players have to be held responsible too.

Having Matt Phillips injured hasn't helped but we did give our best performance (in my opinion) without him in the side against Arsenal at home so we can play nice attacking football without him in the side.
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Online Hull Baggie

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14557 on: May 18, 2017, 12:25:21 PM »
Stating the obvious but its a massive summer for the club.

I think both parties need to go into the end of season meeting with an open mind.

Obviously after the meeting things may change but i would offering Pulis a one year extension and setting him a target of 60 points and ideally a decent cup run for next season.

I think the 40 points becomes an obsession and once we hit it, sub conciously the mentality changes, i think if we could of had another 10-12 points to what we have had the  target been set, the players have tried but the mentality has changed.

I think this season has progressed from last season, spread the season into four and the the middle two quarters were good, i felt we played some decent stuff, we are not going to be a great footballing side under Pulis but we played good attacking stuff, sadly the last quarter of the season has overshadowed that.

I have no doubt most seasons we could probably hit 40 points because i think some of our players are experienced short term fixes who get the job done, however as owners looking to break into the far east market i would think the target has to be better than 40 points, we wont attract much attention that way.

Whether we like it or not Pulis has a type of player and style, i think defensive minded players have improved a lot under him but attacking players havent.

Although pleased in one way of the signing of Chadli i did wonder at the time if he was really the type of player we would get the best out of, in an ideal world we would be looking for that classy player to improve us, the reality is the way we play we are better with the Phillips, Mcleans, etc. In a different team i have no doubt Chadli would be quality but i just dont think he fits how we play so there is no point us signing players like that.

Like say above Pulis has a type of player and style so we may as well get the best possible players we can who play that way rather than sign players who dont fit the style and convert / waste them.

Same applies to a certain extent with Rondon, in a playing sense i feel sorry for him as he knows most of the game he is fighting a lost cause, he is a very different player to the one we first signed and i think his head has gone, and whoever we replace him with will probably be the same in 18 months time, but you have to milk them for the 12-18 months leading upto it.

Personally i dont think Pulis can change his style or ways but he has steadied the ship and i think deserves another season and if we can buy players, improve certain aspects of our play (we are never going to be Man City possession wise but lately our ball retention is shocking) be more positive in our targets and our playing style and make the those two good season quarters into three good season quarters then thats good.

I agree with most of what you say but I think setting a points total of 60 is unrealistic especially as we've never even got to 50. Setting a minimum of 49 would be better in my opinion it is achievable and also more likely that we would get to 50 and beyond, couple it with at least 5th round in both cups.
Also I don't buy the defensively sound argument either as we concede in pretty much every game.
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Offline Albion79

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14558 on: May 18, 2017, 12:30:12 PM »
Apologies, i meant defensive minded players individually seem to of improved - Dawson, McAuley, Evans, Yacob mainly but i agree as a unit we are still not great.

My worry with saying 50 points would be we would hit it and then stop again and finish on 51 points or something when they may be still plenty of points to play for.

I dont think we can blame anyone but ourselves for not getting 50 points this season, we had three months to do it.

Online Hull Baggie

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14559 on: May 18, 2017, 12:46:59 PM »
Apologies, i meant defensive minded players individually seem to of improved - Dawson, McAuley, Evans, Yacob mainly but i agree as a unit we are still not great.

My worry with saying 50 points would be we would hit it and then stop again and finish on 51 points or something when they may be still plenty of points to play for.

I dont think we can blame anyone but ourselves for not getting 50 points this season, we had three months to do it.

Setting it at 49 points is achievable though and an improvement on 40. If we only got to 51 that would still be our best Prem League era total.
I just think 60 points is way too unachievable. Everton have only just broken it and they are quite a bit ahead of us in every aspect.

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Online geoff

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14560 on: May 18, 2017, 01:15:16 PM »
Setting it at 49 points is achievable though and an improvement on 40. If we only got to 51 that would still be our best Prem League era total.
I just think 60 points is way too unachievable. Everton have only just broken it and they are quite a bit ahead of us in every aspect.

Why not (if we don't already) offer a bonus system based on points & league position rising noticeably after 50 & that to include the manager & the staff.
But the manager has to be 100% the driving force behind this push for 50 points or more.

Offline paulosull

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14561 on: May 18, 2017, 01:25:19 PM »
Why not (if we don't already) offer a bonus system based on points & league position rising noticeably after 50 & that to include the manager & the staff.
But the manager has to be 100% the driving force behind this push for 50 points or more.
we could increase the price of season tickets to pay for this bonus as they don't get paid enough.

Online geoff

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14562 on: May 18, 2017, 01:31:01 PM »
we could increase the price of season tickets to pay for this bonus as they don't get paid enough.

Were the F did my post suggest a increase in the price of season ticket.

Offline paulosull

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14563 on: May 18, 2017, 01:34:41 PM »
Were the F did my post suggest a increase in the price of season ticket.
so where do you suggest we find the funds for bonus, transfer funds maybe?

Online geoff

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14564 on: May 18, 2017, 01:39:11 PM »
Were the F did my post suggest a increase in the price of season ticket.

A better question would have been "where would this extra money come from"
My answer would have been
1. sale of extra tickets brought on by better results
2. Extra tv revenue for showing more of our games live.

Offline paulosull

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14565 on: May 18, 2017, 01:41:13 PM »
Were the F did my post suggest a increase in the price of season ticket.
they get enough bonuses already, we should be docking wages or Pulis should have given our youth team a run out that might have embarrassed the so called professionals to turn up for game's

Offline TheBrom

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14566 on: May 18, 2017, 01:46:44 PM »
they get enough bonuses already, we should be docking wages or Pulis should have given our youth team a run out that might have embarrassed the so called professionals to turn up for game's

I've often thought this before, but you can't start not paying people because they don't win. I imagine they get bonuses for winning, scoring, clean sheets etc already.

Online geoff

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14567 on: May 18, 2017, 03:08:41 PM »
I've often thought this before, but you can't start not paying people because they don't win. I imagine they get bonuses for winning, scoring, clean sheets etc already.

I thought that was the case like i sad in my above post.

Money is the biggest motivator in football today wouldn't you agree.
Maybe the way forward could be a wage cap for ALL players then topped up  by uncapped bonuses at the end of each season.

Offline TheBrom

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14568 on: May 18, 2017, 03:11:51 PM »
I thought that was the case like i sad in my above post.

Money is the biggest motivator in football today wouldn't you agree.
Maybe the way forward could be a wage cap for ALL players then topped up  by uncapped bonuses at the end of each season.

I was also thinking this earlier. Trouble is if you're the only club doing the wage caps, the players will just sign elsewhere where there aren't any caps.

Offline Droitwich Baggie

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14569 on: May 18, 2017, 05:22:33 PM »
When we initially brought most of the players to the Hawthorns, they played really well.
Since then Pulis has trained all those skills out of them so that they fit his ideas.
The players should have been left to employ those skills, instead of dumbing down.

Offline Albionic

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14570 on: May 18, 2017, 06:42:38 PM »
I think We have to examine what the chairman and investors will want, clearly a major element will be exposure in Asia, as WBAFv we will not provide that, as a premier league side we do!
So the owners will almost certainly keep Pulis to achieve this, however exposure as a defensive side that does not competed against the high profile clubs Weill not attract the Asian to companies, they will err towards the more attractive matches IMO.
I expect that TO will be given a season to
a) maintain prem status
b) transition the squad to a more attractive proposition
c) modify the style to what the TV audience wish to see

Can he do it? a) yes b&c) I doubt it very much
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Offline baggiejohn

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14571 on: May 18, 2017, 07:20:08 PM »
I'm interested to know why people think that Tony Pulis is the only Head Coach that can keep us in the Premier League.

Every season there are 16 other clubs that retain their EPL status, & even if you take out the top 6, that still leaves 10, whose Managers kept them in the EPL.

We could double TP's wage & it wouldn't have a significant impact on the club's outgoings, so I can't imagine wages is a problem.

Personally, I don't think moving Pulis on would be too much of a risk, & until we do any transition or transformation just isn't going to happen.

Mr Pulis is very much WYSIWYG.
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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14572 on: May 19, 2017, 10:26:59 AM »
hows season ticket sales going. if Tonys brand is identical this time next year and the same of the last 2 seasons then i think folk will start getting the sleeping pills out
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Offline adamw1109

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14573 on: May 19, 2017, 10:39:19 AM »
hows season ticket sales going. if Tonys brand is identical this time next year and the same of the last 2 seasons then i think folk will start getting the sleeping pills out

I think they will still do well with season ticket sales, too many are blinded by our current league position.

Me personally I couldn't care less where we are in the table, it's about the entertainment and fun in the days out on matchdays for me.... only problem is, the entertainment and fun is slowly slipping away.

Whilst others will happily pay their money to watch us not even bother to attempt to win a football match but it's ok but we're 8th and over achieving anyway... again, that 8th position is slowly slipping away too  ::)

Offline skyclad99

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Re: Tony Pulis
« Reply #14574 on: May 19, 2017, 10:41:19 AM »
I think they will still do well with season ticket sales, too many are blinded by our current league position.

Me personally I couldn't care less where we are in the table, it's about the entertainment and fun in the days out on matchdays for me.... only problem is, the entertainment and fun is slowly slipping away.

Whilst others will happily pay their money to watch us not even bother to attempt to win a football match but it's ok but we're 8th and over achieving anyway... again, that 8th position is slowly slipping away too  ::)

Last time I checked we were 9th........ all academic I know
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