[Baggie79]

My initial opinion was that all would benefit the squad and I still believe they will. None of them have been great but they are very very clearly not match fit and I think it is unfair to judge them until they are 100% match fit.

More worringly why are they being played when unfit? My Forest mate asked why is he playing Johansen and Murphy when they were both blowing after 20 mins?

I think they will improve especially Johansen but dont hang them out to dry.

[beechyboy90]

My initial opinion was that all would benefit the squad and I still believe they will. None of them have been great but they are very very clearly not match fit and I think it is unfair to judge them until they are 100% match fit.

More worringly why are they being played when unfit? My Forest mate asked why is he playing Johansen and Murphy when they were both blowing after 20 mins?

I think they will improve especially Johansen but dont hang them out to dry.

all need game time to get fit so is a double edge sword, but as you said we cant really be afford to carrying numerous players who aren't 100% match fit.

I mean murphy wore a protective boot so wasn't fit really the other day. Johansen seems to manage 70 minutes. Now with gayle suspension it could be argued we will start Montero v villa.

add this to the likes that gayle gibbs Phillips hegazi have history with muscle injuries and gareth barry is almost 38 we really need to use our squad and our subs well over the next few weeks or we could be further up the stream without a paddle.

[paulosull]

Didn't think much of the loan signings on last day of window too me it looked like we were getting players in that in all seriousness we could have got in at start of the window. But because Moore, Jones and recruitment staff were hoping that  Harvey Barnes would be able to return to us they left these deals to last minute. I have said that I'm not impressed with these loans not because these players arnt any better than the players we have but because they will hinder the progress of our Yong players who are coming through. In my opinion our best 11 would have only Holgate and Gayle in it with maybe Johansen on bench.

[overseas baggie]

all need game time to get fit so is a double edge sword, but as you said we cant really be afford to carrying numerous players who aren't 100% match fit.

I mean murphy wore a protective boot so wasn't fit really the other day. Johansen seems to manage 70 minutes. Now with gayle suspension it could be argued we will start Montero v villa.

add this to the likes that gayle gibbs Phillips hegazi have history with muscle injuries and gareth barry is almost 38 we really need to use our squad and our subs well over the next few weeks or we could be further up the stream without a paddle.

The reason why players are available on loan from
PL clubs is because they aren’t required by the PL clubs - at best they are on the bench, and usually they aren’t even in the match day squad at all, so they won’t be match fit.  If we want players who are match fit then we are going to have to take players who are in somebody’s first team, which either means that they don’t want to release them, or we would have to buy them.  Buying players wasn’t really a financial option for us in January unless we were selling anyone.   Unfortunately that’s all the nature of the January market. 

[darbolina]

With Murphy,  it looks more than fitness, he seems to lack quality on the ball and frankly just seems fast (another mcclean). Johansen will be a good signing I think. montero not sure as haven’t seen him . Holgate is a good signing. I hope Gayle and Phillips are able to play most of the rest of the season ........

[Standaman]

I think there is a bit of a myth here. Match fitness is probably a thing but not as big of a thing as sometimes made out by people in football. It is an easy line to trot out and virtually impossible to challenge except it doesn't seem to impact some players at all and not in all circumstances.

Holgate for instance did not play at all for Everton after the begininng of October but there has been no apparent sign of a lack of match fitness since his arrival.

Johansson while not being a regular starter has had minutes during the first half of the season. It wasn't until the middle of December that he was dropped altogether from the Fulham squad.

Murphy like Johansson hasn't been completely out of the Newcastle squad and he had the 3 FA cup games that Newcastle played in January, in point of fact he had more minutes in Janaury than Livermore (maybe his poor performance was down to a "lack of match fitness" following his suspension lay off although there was no sign of that against Stoke)

Montero is a different kettle of fish. He has been fairly inactive through a number of seasons at Swansea and even out on loan. Here I would conclude that you don't have the same player that joined and did well for Swansea 3 years ago (?) but again this has nothing to do with "match fitness".

Okay so collectively we believe that the loanees have been less than impressive for a start nobody walked off the pitch the other night with much credit (yes but we know all our current players are rubbish these our our new players they are meant to be good least ways until we become familiar with them then they become rubbish).

All joking aside the most logical reason is that new players take time to become familiar with patterns of play and what the players around them will do in game situations and at game level inesity working at 3/4 pace in training is different but it is not an issue of "fitness".

 Equally what you see might be what you get Johansson might have hit the point in his career where he has to pace himself through games and until he adjusts he might run out of steam towards the end of games. Murphy might be headless chicken winger mk10001 although he might yet bloom into a left footed wide attacker (apart from the fact that he is most definetly rigt footed).

Maybe it is too early to judge. 

[darbolina]

Good point Stan - sometimes it just takes time for players to settle in - with a group and a system. It's too early to write anyone off but Murphy is the one that worries me most. We need a player to slot into where Barnes provided goals and assists. Murphy might work best away from home when we hit teams on the break more (his pace). For when we need quality and movement at home to break teams down, I'm not so sure?

Johansen and Montero off the bench will likely do a job. Holgate is already a success for me.

Others have said it, perhaps we fundamentally need to change the way we play at home and be more direct and with width. With this in mind, Murphy or Phillips and Montero will be very important. Trouble is , we need to find some home form quickly...........

[17GD]

I think like any player and coach, you get a better basis for judgement after 10 games. And we need to remember that the PL and the Championship are very different leagues.

With regards match fitness, as you say Standaman, it's something that's hard to prove or disprove. Will playing 60 minutes improve fitness levels? Maybe if the player gets regular starts, but a start here and there won't add much. But personally, I think players are best trained to run for 120 minutes, rather than 90. That way you can last, rather than start tiring by the 70 minute mark.

I think Holgate has been a superb signing. His quality shows and is arguably the best right back in the league. He has pace, a lovely first touch, a good shot and can hit a beautiful diagonal ball. One thing I appreciate is that he clearly makes an effort to applaud the fans before and after the game. He seems as though he enjoys his football and it shows in moments like this.

[BoingFlyer]

Match fitness is not just about the physical aspects of the game their are the mental aspects as well. Not just about being switched on and psychologically prepared to play a full 90 minutes but also having to remember where each player fits in a new system. If the player is having to think about what they are doing (i.e. how Moor wants them to play) then it will have a massive impact on their performance. I think its referred to as the stages of learning in sports psychology.

If a player comes in and hits the ground running like Holgate, not only is he physically fit and sharp but he knows what Moore is asking of him. You could argue the role of a full back is probably the most straight forward of all the positions or what he is being asked to do is similar to what he has already done.

I'm still going to reserve judgement until 10 games have gone.

[Atomic]

I think like any player and coach, you get a better basis for judgement after 10 games. And we need to remember that the PL and the Championship are very different leagues.

With regards match fitness, as you say Standaman, it's something that's hard to prove or disprove. Will playing 60 minutes improve fitness levels? Maybe if the player gets regular starts, but a start here and there won't add much. But personally, I think players are best trained to run for 120 minutes, rather than 90. That way you can last, rather than start tiring by the 70 minute mark.

I think Holgate has been a superb signing. His quality shows and is arguably the best right back in the league. He has pace, a lovely first touch, a good shot and can hit a beautiful diagonal ball. One thing I appreciate is that he clearly makes an effort to applaud the fans before and after the game. He seems as though he enjoys his football and it shows in moments like this.

It's funny how people can see things differently. Mason Holgate, for me, has been a bit disappointing since his league debut. The first 25 minutes of that debut he looked absolute class. Every option he chose was the right one, every cross he put in (and there were four or five) were absolute top notch. He defended the odd situation he had to defend perfectly and I thought we have a real player here. He hasn't replicated that level of form since. In possession of the ball he has chosen the wrong option quite often and his delivery hasn't been nearly as good. He's a level above Mears and Adarabioyo as a right back in that he is athletic and can get up and down but his quality on the ball has dropped. That inconsistency is maybe why he isn't a regular Premier League starter.

The other January signings it is too early to judge really. I like to see every player play five or six games for us before I make a proper judgement of them as overall players. What I will say for the moment is Montero is impossible to get any sort of handle on for his few minutes game time. Johansen has not looked out of place but hasn't done anything spectacular. He seems to have decent technique and I'm hoping there is more to come from him. Jacob Murphy's on the ball quality has been nil so far apart from one peach of a cross on his debut. Looks like he has decent pace, not a lot of strength. Has scored already so maybe he is a goal threat at this level?

[Adder]

Johansen looks a neat and tidy player but so far hasn't shown any sign of imposing himself on matches. In the Championship for Fulham, Cairney was their playmaker and knitted it all together for them. We haven't got a Cairney, Livermore certainly isn't one, Barry is getting on and naturally sits deeper,  and really we need Johansen to do more than he has so far. Hopefully we'll start seeing it soon.

Murphy, again we need to see more urgency and positivity from him. The team has been generally lethargic since the Dubai break (happens to coincide with the absence of Barnes and Phillips also). Hopefully DM has been banging the drum since Tuesday after he described us as lethargic v Forest.

[SmethDan]

The team has been generally lethargic since the Dubai break (happens to coincide with the absence of Barnes and Phillips also). Hopefully DM has been banging the drum since Tuesday after he described us as lethargic v Forest.

If the players are flat and lethargic then he needs to get to the root of why and address it.

Drum banging's all well and good but on occasions you need to listen instead and change things around.

[Adder]

If the players are flat and lethargic then he needs to get to the root of why and address it.

Drum banging's all well and good but on occasions you need to listen instead and change things around.

There could also be a bit of a psychological effect from the absence of Barnes and Phillips. The players will know how important those two have been and the fact we haven't got replacements anywhere near as good (not giving up on Murphy yet).
We need to move on and dig in to make up for the fact a big part of our cutting edge has gone.

[SmethDan]

There could also be a bit of a psychological effect from the absence of Barnes and Phillips. The players will know how important those two have been and the fact we haven't got replacements anywhere near as good (not giving up on Murphy yet).
We need to move on and dig in to make up for the fact a big part of our cutting edge has gone.

If the players can't perform to the standards required of a system put in place for players of a higher calibre, it would perhaps be an idea to change the system to suit thoes currently available.

[Adder]

If the players can't perform to the standards required of a system put in place for players of a higher calibre, it would perhaps be an idea to change the system to suit thoes currently available.

It probably wouldn't stop you missing players who can spark things off and hurt teams though.