Author Topic: Dwight Gayle (at Newcastle)  (Read 235039 times)

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #875 on: June 17, 2019, 10:32:33 PM »
If you are thinking about Gayle being in the team, he has to be behind the most forward player.
I can remember a certain Jeff Astle being up front and nodding the ball down to Mr. Bobby Hope and Mr. Tony Brown several times.
Gayle needs to be in one of those positions to be able to capitalise.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #876 on: June 18, 2019, 08:43:59 AM »
Pukki, Abraham, Maupay, Sharp, Gayle, Rodriguez, McBurnie, Adams, Bowen. That's 9 last season alone, one of which didn't even play as a striker. There's also not many players in that list who I would take as more than a back-up if we were in the Prem. Doesn't take a special player to hit 20 in this league, just a good finisher and a team that creates plenty of chances.

It's easy to tell us the players who scored over 20 goals after the season has ended, we need to know who WILL score 20 goals next season.

Out of the players you named , Pukki, Maupay, McBurnie, Adams and Bowen had never achieved 20+ goals before last season and I think they probably won't next season. Gayle will.  Now we could take him if not he will go to another championship club because they are lining up to sign him.

The point is , we can afford him and he will deliver the goals. Without him who is going to score the goals !!!

There is still a chance we could lose Jrod, that leaves us with HRK and some unknown strikers if we can manage to get anyone in.  That is not only a formula for staying in the championship its a formula for relegation to League 1 .

A lot of fans on this thread have got this great dream we will get a player for £5 mill who will score 25+ goals.

Get real people its not going to happen.  Go with the guaranteed goals . In fact I think without Gayle we will not get promoted in fact probably not even in the play offs.

If its such a bad idea to sign him why are other clubs lining up to sign him.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #877 on: June 18, 2019, 08:53:27 AM »
Albion as it stands aren’t a side who can go out and buy a striker who has scored 20 plus goals, the trick as with a lot of those players that did it last season is to get them before they have and are affordable. Naming a striker who has got twenty goals isn’t difficult, the difficulty is finding them before they go somewhere else and score twenty and end up out of reach.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #878 on: June 18, 2019, 09:18:05 AM »
I think the point is - they had to be discovered by the clubs that bought them and that's what we need to do. For Example; Pukki. If we were linked with him people would look at his record. 7 in 26 in the SPL? 8 in 37 for Schalke? Sure he did well in the Danish league, but that's the Danish League. But at Norwich it clicked. I think they signed him for 2 million euros.

But that's all hindsight.  How many clubs signed players with poor scoring records and they went onto also score poorly?  How did HRK turn out? 

We COULD sign a player who then goes and scores 20+ goals, it's not impossible, but the odds are stacked against it.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #879 on: June 18, 2019, 09:30:37 AM »
It's easy to tell us the players who scored over 20 goals after the season has ended, we need to know who WILL score 20 goals next season.

Out of the players you named , Pukki, Maupay, McBurnie, Adams and Bowen had never achieved 20+ goals before last season and I think they probably won't next season. Gayle will.  Now we could take him if not he will go to another championship club because they are lining up to sign him.

...


How can we be sure?  Other teams might work out how to contain him; he might get injured?  He's good but to make a disproportionate outlay of our funds on him is to create a single point of failure.
 
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #880 on: June 18, 2019, 09:40:45 AM »

How can we be sure?  Other teams might work out how to contain him; he might get injured?  He's good but to make a disproportionate outlay of our funds on him is to create a single point of failure.

We can be sure because he has done it time after time in this division. With us last season and in previous seasons with Newcastle and Crystal Palace.  It's all about goals.  We supporters buy our season tickets to see the team win and score goals . We certainly don't pay out our money and sit there and say " We lost but at least the club are sensible and are managing the money " !!!

As for the injury , you could say that about any player in any division in the county !!

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #881 on: June 18, 2019, 09:54:47 AM »

It's easy to tell us the players who scored over 20 goals after the season has ended, we need to know who WILL score 20 goals next season.

Out of the players you named , Pukki, Maupay, McBurnie, Adams and Bowen had never achieved 20+ goals before last season and I think they probably won't next season. Gayle will.  Now we could take him if not he will go to another championship club because they are lining up to sign him.


wow you can see into the future! Can I have this weeks lottery numbers please? :D

No one can say who will score 20+ goals a season as none of us can see into the future...and if we could we'd still be using hindsight (as we'd be looking at a future event that had happened)

Is Gayle likely to score 20 goals next season ..probably as he has in 2 of the 3 seasons he's played in the Championship, the exception being the 13 he got for Peterborough. However if he is playing at a higher level then it's unlikely he'll get 20 goals next season as he never has got anywhere near it for Palace or Newcastle.

Seriously you can't say that Gayle will score 20+ goals next season as anything can happen between now and then. He might break a leg in pre season, he might get injured at the start of the season and be out for a long period of time.

I'm not against us signing Gayle at all, in fact I'd love us to, my point is that he wasn't the only 20+ goal scorer last season so other players can do it.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2019, 09:57:47 AM by Hull Baggie »
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #882 on: June 18, 2019, 09:56:34 AM »

Gayle has never played for Palace in the Championship, he has played 3 seasons in it one each for Peterborough, Newcastle and us.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #883 on: June 18, 2019, 11:37:34 AM »
I like Gayle.  I'd be really happy to see him come back next season... buy only on loan.  (Maybe we can wrap him up in a deal for Rondon?)

He's too expensive.  It's too big a risk for us with only 1 more season (of much lower) parachute payments after this one. 

If we're stuck in the Champs then, we have wasted too much money on an asset with a low resale value and high wages.

If we're promoted then we know Gayle doesn't really work as a PL player. 

I see him in the same mould as Earnshaw.  He's a goal scorer, who really comes alive in the box and has little impact outside of it.  If we're getting in the box a lot he'll score goals.  In the PL, where we won't get in the box so much, he becomes a passenger that we can't afford to carry.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #884 on: June 18, 2019, 07:40:10 PM »
Pukki, Abraham, Maupay, Sharp, Gayle, Rodriguez, McBurnie, Adams, Bowen. That's 9 last season alone, one of which didn't even play as a striker. There's also not many players in that list who I would take as more than a back-up if we were in the Prem. Doesn't take a special player to hit 20 in this league, just a good finisher and a team that creates plenty of chances.

All of the players you have cited above are as expensive or more expensive than Gayle, save for Pukki:

-Abraham: expensive loanee coveted by PL teams last season
-Maupay: Price tag of £15-20m, quality at this level for years
-Sharp: Sheff Utd player, 33 years old, not for sale
-McBurnie: Swansea academy product not for sale
-Che Adams: attracting a £10-£15m price last LAST Summer, more now.
-Bowen: scored 15 goals in 17/18 - linked with £12m move to Everton LAST summer
-Pukki: journeyman, a year older than Gayle, amazing season in 18/19

This idea that we can replace Gayle like quality and goals on the cheap doesn't stack up. You can sign 100 journey men strikers, 99% of the time you get a HRK and 1% you hit the jackpot and get a Pukki.

The only names mentioned turn out to be just as expensive or more expensive than Gayle anyway.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #885 on: June 18, 2019, 09:43:54 PM »
All of the players you have cited above are as expensive or more expensive than Gayle, save for Pukki:

-Abraham: expensive loanee coveted by PL teams last season
-Maupay: Price tag of £15-20m, quality at this level for years
-Sharp: Sheff Utd player, 33 years old, not for sale
-McBurnie: Swansea academy product not for sale
-Che Adams: attracting a £10-£15m price last LAST Summer, more now.
-Bowen: scored 15 goals in 17/18 - linked with £12m move to Everton LAST summer
-Pukki: journeyman, a year older than Gayle, amazing season in 18/19

This idea that we can replace Gayle like quality and goals on the cheap doesn't stack up. You can sign 100 journey men strikers, 99% of the time you get a HRK and 1% you hit the jackpot and get a Pukki.

The only names mentioned turn out to be just as expensive or more expensive than Gayle anyway.

You've missed my point. We don't by Maupay or Che Adams this summer. We buy the next Maupay or Che Adams. We take a punt on the next Pukki. We don't put all our eggs in one basket, especially when we can't recoup much if we fail to go up.

This isn't just my opinion on signing Gayle, it's a problem that runs deep in our recruitment. Brentford bring in the likes of Maupay, Benrahma, Jota etc. with a much smaller budget than we have. We spend £4m on Kyle Bartley because he's played in the Championship before. Brentford are £40m richer from those signings, simply because they employ smart footballing people.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #886 on: June 18, 2019, 10:02:41 PM »
This entire thread has condescended into a very hypothetical one. NOTHING is guaranteed in football. The only exceptions would be the World Class players who consistently bagged 20 goals a season in The Premiership.

Ross McCormack was signed by how much for Villa because he was going to guarantee them goals? He scored 17+ in 3 consecutive seasons and was widely regarded as the best striker in the league. The rest is history. He is The Championships all time top scorer.

Dwight Gayle meanwhile IS the all time Championship best striker in terms of Goals/Mins. Factor in that statistic how much is that worth? Definitely a straight swap for Rondon and paying him £40k a week minimum. Somebody will pay it, that or someone will take a punt on him in The Premiership.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #887 on: June 18, 2019, 10:27:32 PM »
This entire thread has condescended into a very hypothetical one. NOTHING is guaranteed in football. The only exceptions would be the World Class players who consistently bagged 20 goals a season in The Premiership.

Ross McCormack was signed by how much for Villa because he was going to guarantee them goals? He scored 17+ in 3 consecutive seasons and was widely regarded as the best striker in the league. The rest is history. He is The Championships all time top scorer.

Dwight Gayle meanwhile IS the all time Championship best striker in terms of Goals/Mins. Factor in that statistic how much is that worth? Definitely a straight swap for Rondon and paying him £40k a week minimum. Somebody will pay it, that or someone will take a punt on him in The Premiership.


How old is McCormick? He'd be an instant hero with about 30%  ;)  of the fanbase just for his exploits at Villa, chuck in a few goals...


Sign him up!!
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #888 on: June 19, 2019, 12:27:41 AM »
You've missed my point. We don't by Maupay or Che Adams this summer. We buy the next Maupay or Che Adams. We take a punt on the next Pukki. We don't put all our eggs in one basket, especially when we can't recoup much if we fail to go up.

I get it, you want the magic wand, the club to buy the next superstar batch of strikers at a low cost with a huge sell on value. The main issue being that everybody else is looking for the same thing and they don’t grow on trees, even players with limited experience can attract hefty price tags based on potential alone. The market is now mad. What happens when the potential strikers we invest with no track record turn into a Simon Cox and a HRK? Look how much money was wasted on Burke. Quality strikers are rare commodities, when you get one it pays good heed to hold onto them. I’ve been watching us since 1993, in the last 26 years the only strikers worth mentioning have been Super Bob, Andy Hunt, Hughes, Lukuku, Odemwingie, SKP and Gayle. That’s 7 in 26 years! Our aim next season has to be to throw everything at a promotion push, we’re not yet a mid table championship team looking to build. Our resources and ambition is bigger than that. If we lose the parachute money we will have to take more of a longer term view and settle for less but it’s worth keeping at it.

I don’t have a problem with lowering the age of the squad but that shouldn’t be a precursor to trying to resign Gayle as well. Committing £10m and wages on a quality forward isn’t financial kamikaze, in the grand scheme of things. We have resources that few other teams in our league can match.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #889 on: June 19, 2019, 01:12:29 AM »
I get it, you want the magic wand, the club to buy the next superstar batch of strikers at a low cost with a huge sell on value. The main issue being that everybody else is looking for the same thing and they don’t grow on trees, even players with limited experience can attract hefty price tags based on potential alone. The market is now mad. What happens when the potential strikers we invest with no track record turn into a Simon Cox and a HRK? Look how much money was wasted on Burke. Quality strikers are rare commodities, when you get one it pays good heed to hold onto them. I’ve been watching us since 1993, in the last 26 years the only strikers worth mentioning have been Super Bob, Andy Hunt, Hughes, Lukuku, Odemwingie, SKP and Gayle. That’s 7 in 26 years! Our aim next season has to be to throw everything at a promotion push, we’re not yet a mid table championship team looking to build. Our resources and ambition is bigger than that. If we lose the parachute money we will have to take more of a longer term view and settle for less but it’s worth keeping at it.

I don’t have a problem with lowering the age of the squad but that shouldn’t be a precursor to trying to resign Gayle as well. Committing £10m and wages on a quality forward isn’t financial kamikaze, in the grand scheme of things. We have resources that few other teams in our league can match.


You come out with some poor shouts but this right up there.


I've been going up since 88.


Don Goodman, Bob Taylor, Andy Hunt, Paul Peschisolido, Lee Hughes, Jason Roberts, Robert Earnshaw, Kanu, Dio Kamara, Kevin Phillips, Ismael Miller, Peter Odemwingie, Romelu Lukaku, Saido Berahino, Salomon Rondon, Jay Rodriguez and Dwight Gayle.


We've consistently had excellent strikers aside from the one season it really mattered under Mowbray (and if James hadn't crocked Ish I think he was headed for the very top and would have kept us up).


Gayle was great, I'd love him back if Slaven Bilic wants him, but it won't be anything more than a loan and I have serious reservations about that with the wage he's on.


{Apologies to the likes of Kevin Bartlett, Scott Dobie, Geoff Horsfield, Marc Fortune, Carlos Vela and Roman Bednar, but never Shane Long}  ;D
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #890 on: June 19, 2019, 07:54:06 AM »

You come out with some poor shouts but this right up there.


I've been going up since 88.


Don Goodman, Bob Taylor, Andy Hunt, Paul Peschisolido, Lee Hughes, Jason Roberts, Robert Earnshaw, Kanu, Dio Kamara, Kevin Phillips, Ismael Miller, Peter Odemwingie, Romelu Lukaku, Saido Berahino, Salomon Rondon, Jay Rodriguez and Dwight Gayle.


We've consistently had excellent strikers aside from the one season it really mattered under Mowbray (and if James hadn't crocked Ish I think he was headed for the very top and would have kept us up).


Gayle was great, I'd love him back if Slaven Bilic wants him, but it won't be anything more than a loan and I have serious reservations about that with the wage he's on.


{Apologies to the likes of Kevin Bartlett, Scott Dobie, Geoff Horsfield, Marc Fortune, Carlos Vela and Roman Bednar, but never Shane Long}  ;D

You forgot that lethal striker Paul Williams!  ;D

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #891 on: June 19, 2019, 09:50:31 AM »
Don Goodman, Bob Taylor, Andy Hunt, Paul Peschisolido, Lee Hughes, Jason Roberts, Robert Earnshaw, Kanu, Dio Kamara, Kevin Phillips, Ismael Miller, Peter Odemwingie, Romelu Lukaku, Saido Berahino, Salomon Rondon, Jay Rodriguez and Dwight Gayle.

Goodman, Peschi, Roberts, Earnshaw, Kanu, Kamara, Miller, Berahino, J-Rod.... They are all a long way from what I would call excellent.  At best you could point to a couple of purple patches and that's about it. 

I'm probably being a bit harsh on Kanu as he was a very talented forward, but his goal scoring record wasn't great. 

Like it or not, finding top strikers, even for this level is not easy, even if you're willing to pay the money.  When you're doing it on the cheap it's even tougher.  The odds are stacked against you.  We are more likely to spend money on an HRK quality player than we are on unearthing the next young Lukaku.

So the question is, do we risk spending £Xm on a player who *might* do it at this level.  Or do we spend £Ym on a player who can do it at this level?

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #892 on: June 19, 2019, 09:56:23 AM »
Goodman, Peschi, Roberts, Earnshaw, Kanu, Kamara, Miller, Berahino, J-Rod.... They are all a long way from what I would call excellent.  At best you could point to a couple of purple patches and that's about it. 

I'm probably being a bit harsh on Kanu as he was a very talented forward, but his goal scoring record wasn't great. 

Like it or not, finding top strikers, even for this level is not easy, even if you're willing to pay the money.  When you're doing it on the cheap it's even tougher.  The odds are stacked against you.  We are more likely to spend money on an HRK quality player than we are on unearthing the next young Lukaku.

So the question is, do we risk spending £Xm on a player who *might* do it at this level.  Or do we spend £Ym on a player who can do it at this level?

Kanu was a complete class act. Some of his passes used to look misplaced at times because the rest of the team was no where on the same wave length as him.

he was more like a number 10 and not a goal scorer, he only scored double figures for arsenal once.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #893 on: June 19, 2019, 10:00:22 AM »
Kanu was a complete class act. Some of his passes used to look misplaced at times because the rest of the team was no where on the same wave length as him.

he was more like a number 10 and not a goal scorer, he only scored double figures for arsenal once.

100% agree.  I used to say the same thing to my mate with his passing, it would look like a terrible ball but it was a great pass that wasn't read by his teammates. 

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #894 on: June 19, 2019, 12:04:08 PM »
Goodman, Peschi, Roberts, Earnshaw, Kanu, Kamara, Miller, Berahino, J-Rod.... They are all a long way from what I would call excellent.  At best you could point to a couple of purple patches and that's about it.

I'm probably being a bit harsh on Kanu as he was a very talented forward, but his goal scoring record wasn't great. 

Like it or not, finding top strikers, even for this level is not easy, even if you're willing to pay the money.  When you're doing it on the cheap it's even tougher.  The odds are stacked against you.  We are more likely to spend money on an HRK quality player than we are on unearthing the next young Lukaku.

So the question is, do we risk spending £Xm on a player who *might* do it at this level.  Or do we spend £Ym on a player who can do it at this level?

I think the point though was that baggie82 said there had only been 7 'decent' forwards  since 1993, which is being harsh on quite a few 'decent' forwards we have had over that period.

Roberts and Kamara were better all round attackers than Gayle IMO. Roberts in particular was unlucky with injury in the 2002 promotion season otherwise I fancy he would have got 20+ goals. Kamara reached 20 goals in his one season in the Championship.

JROD is underrated and regardless reached the 20+ goal mark last season. His record for his last 3 full seasons in the Championship is 1 per every 2.4 games. Earnshaw's career record in the Championship is 1 for every 2.5 games, Roberts is around 1 in 2.3, Gayle's is around 1 in 1.8.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #895 on: June 19, 2019, 01:24:13 PM »
The phrases used were "Quality strikers" and "excellent". 

To be fair I would class most of those as decent.  Just not at that level above. 

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #896 on: June 19, 2019, 02:31:01 PM »
The phrases used were "Quality strikers" and "excellent". 

To be fair I would class most of those as decent.  Just not at that level above.

Baggie82's comment: 'I’ve been watching us since 1993, in the last 26 years the only strikers worth mentioning have been Super Bob, Andy Hunt, Hughes, Lukuku, Odemwingie, SKP and Gayle. That’s 7 in 26 years!'

Earnshaw's, Roberts', Kamara's and JROD's goal-scoring records at Championship level are all excellent and it seems a bit harsh to suggest they're not worth mentioning.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #897 on: June 19, 2019, 03:07:57 PM »
You missed this bit

"Quality strikers are rare commodities, when you get one it pays good heed to hold onto them."

I don't think we'd be having much of a discussion if the question was "is it worth paying decent money for a player of the quality of HRK".

"Earnshaw's, Roberts', Kamara's and JROD's goal-scoring records at Championship level are all excellent and it seems a bit harsh to suggest they're not worth mentioning."

None of that 4 are in the same group that we're talking about though.  We also had them in the Prem and their goal scoring records weren't great at all.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 03:16:48 PM by boinging_along »

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #898 on: June 19, 2019, 03:28:20 PM »
You come out with some poor shouts but this right up there.

Coming from you I take criticism as a badge of honour.

The wider point is a player of calibre of Gayle at this level is rare and worth the money. The weekend press reports that Bilic wants to sign him is encouraging and Newcastle would clearly prefer some sort of swap then having to fund Rondon's full buy out clause, so its not hopeless yet.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #899 on: June 20, 2019, 09:48:55 PM »
I would love Gayle back next year and think if our manager wants him it will happen.
If he doesn't then so be it. what we do need is a few options because at the moment we have very little.
its a lot easier when your in the prem to convince players to come on good wages and put in there contracts that they have a 50% paycut because most of them jump ship anyway, but convincing them to come on that reduced wage to start with is difficult.
We know our owner isn't going to help with finances in the foreseeable future, so we have to be self financing
I think some money must have been promised to Bilic but most will come from selling players and good recruiting. 
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