Author Topic: The Cricket Thread  (Read 418357 times)

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wodenson46

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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2550 on: February 09, 2022, 01:26:26 PM »
The England batting is tripe. On field Leadership and decision making is of dubious quality. Keeping and fielding have not been of test standard. So what is the answer? I know drop the only two guys who have been anywhere, near the required quality, and who if listened to, may have some ideas, based on experience, about how to go about winning particular games.
The batting is broken so they mess about with the bowling....Haven't they done well? ::)

Test match cricket is about winning, and England desperately need some wins, it is not about giving the lads a go. You pick your best eleven. I do not care how old they are, they are our best two seamers, without either of them we cannot pick our best eleven. :'(

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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2551 on: February 09, 2022, 01:36:16 PM »
The England batting is tripe. On field Leadership and decision making is of dubious quality. Keeping and fielding have not been of test standard. So what is the answer? I know drop the only two guys who have been anywhere, near the required quality, and who if listened to, may have some ideas, based on experience, about how to go about winning particular games.
The batting is broken so they mess about with the bowling....Haven't they done well? ::)

Test match cricket is about winning, and England desperately need some wins, it is not about giving the lads a go. You pick your best eleven. I do not care how old they are, they are our best two seamers, without either of them we cannot pick our best eleven. :'(

Thats a seriously good summation of things, well done Woden.
Can we send this to Mr Strauss please.
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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2552 on: February 09, 2022, 01:37:05 PM »
They carry an awful lot of presence and both have been vocal in calling our Root, Silverwood and the batsman (rightly or wrongly) across the last couple of months.

I think Strauss wants a reset without them without their lingering presence as a distraction.

Though not picking two bowlers with 1000 wickets between then is an unwelcome distraction.

Point taken Liam. But in my opinion i would rather somebodies criticism than them just saying something like 'Unlucky lads better luck next time'.

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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2553 on: February 09, 2022, 05:55:49 PM »
As for the overall squad - can't help but think our bowling looks extremely weak to be honest. Woakes has a very poor average abroad but has the benefit of a dukes ball so will spear head the attack. Mahmood is high end 80s whereas Robinson and Fisher are similar bowlers in terms of their style and craft.

There is no genuine number three either so either Root has to sacrifice himself or Bairstow or Pope are going to require batting at three. That probably wouldn't be much of an issue now Bairstow will not have the gloves

Lees, Crawley, Bairstow, Root, Stokes, Foakes, Woakes, Robinson, Fisher, Wood, Parkinson

I think we need to be careful as to how we use Stokes to be honest - the way he was utilised in the Ashes was ridiculous so I'd include him moreso as a batsman than a bowler.

The other alternative is Pope ahead of Fisher as our batting does look light when you consider that top three
Yeah that batting does look a bit light Liam. Assuming Stokes starts fully fit I think he has to be the 4th seamer but agree he shouldn't be asked to bang it in short for long periods even if Wood isn't in the side. I would have retained Malan to bat at 3. It generally hasn't gone well with Bairstow any higher than 5. Ah while typing I just spotted that Root has 'categorically said he wants to bat at 3'.
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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2554 on: February 09, 2022, 08:49:36 PM »
Thats a seriously good summation of things, well done Woden.
Can we send this to Mr Strauss please.

The issue is when they go. What do we do then?

There is an argument for trying to source their replacements now given one of them is nigh on 40
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wodenson46

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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2555 on: February 10, 2022, 05:37:26 PM »
The issue is when they go. What do we do then?

There is an argument for trying to source their replacements now given one of them is nigh on 40

I agree to some extent Liam but I still think it is more important at the moment that we win some test matches. Given our specific requirements regarding the batting I would argue we should be prioritising developing that area of the team.

Agree that any bowling replacement needs are imminent but they should have already been sourced by the time any incumbent is 40. If they are not better than a 40 year old seam bowler now, it's doubtful they ever will be.

Until the 40 year old is past it, you play your best team in test matches (surely anything else is disrespectful to opponents) and let potential replacements develop elsewhere. Although I do not have a clue where that 'elsewhere' might be, maybe A team tours replicating test match experience more closely? I think you are more likely to have better insight into this than I have though.


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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2556 on: February 10, 2022, 07:24:14 PM »
Listening to David Lloyd on Talk Sport, he reckons that in the absence of any long term coaches Root will have had a big input into this selection. It does make you wonder if there is some dressing room conflict or atmosphere that has contributed to both Anderson and Broad being left out of this tour.
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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2557 on: February 10, 2022, 08:16:16 PM »
Well Root blamed the bowlers after the batsmen made themselves look silly down under and the next test, after a brilliant bowling performance Anderson hit back with a dig of his own. It wouldn't be shocking to think that Root feels Anderson and Broad have too much sway.

If that is the reason for them being dropped, I'd be very unhappy. Anderson and Broad are two of our greatest cricketers ever and deserve more respect.
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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2558 on: February 10, 2022, 10:11:44 PM »
It's not an easy one to work out and we can't really judge the dynamic within the dressing room.
Apart from Root who is also one of our greatest ever cricketers, our batting has been abject and rightly criticised, but outside of the sub-continent the pitches are nearly always bowler friendly these days. There wasn't one test in Australia where any batsman on either side will have felt like they were 'in' and set for a big score. It was more a case of toughing it out, riding luck and the quality of the opposing bowling comes into it. Australia were better in all departments.
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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2559 on: February 11, 2022, 08:54:57 AM »
I agree to some extent Liam but I still think it is more important at the moment that we win some test matches. Given our specific requirements regarding the batting I would argue we should be prioritising developing that area of the team.

Agree that any bowling replacement needs are imminent but they should have already been sourced by the time any incumbent is 40. If they are not better than a 40 year old seam bowler now, it's doubtful they ever will be.

Until the 40 year old is past it, you play your best team in test matches (surely anything else is disrespectful to opponents) and let potential replacements develop elsewhere. Although I do not have a clue where that 'elsewhere' might be, maybe A team tours replicating test match experience more closely? I think you are more likely to have better insight into this than I have though.

I agree in developing that area of the side and I do not think English cricket had done enough to support that in recent years.

I would have taken Broad for the series and left Anderson at home and allowed him to spearhead an inexperienced attack. I do take the sound bites from the ECB that both are powerful members within the dressing room and that perhaps is an additional hindrance to an already failing batting unit.

I am supportive of A tours in general although they do not replicate the test environment. I think the ECB really needs to look at regular tours oversees for championship counties. There is no reason why Warwickshire for example cannot compete in foreign conditions in the Sheffield shield. It would be a chance for Rob Yates (our future opener), Sam Hain, Craig Miles and Liam Norwell to demonstrate their worth in different conditions.

Farbrace and Alec Stewart have spoken at length about how their roles at the Bears and Surrey respectively is geared around providing a successful group for the English national side. It’s imperative that players experience new surroundings.

The same applies to Fisher, Mahmood, Parkinson, Garton, Pope, Hameed, Lawrence, Crawley et al. All brought up on similar English decks but have not sampled cricket abroad well enough to improve their skills which will be of benefit to them and the English game.

When Rob Yates eventually gets his call up within the next few years, his first introduction to pace and spin will be in the test environment. We cannot keep expecting players to learn in that environment as it’s ruthless. They need to learn beforehand as it will equip them for the realities and struggles of test match cricket.
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wodenson46

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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2560 on: February 11, 2022, 02:50:36 PM »
Thanks Liam Great post. Have to agree with you on all of that.  See that powerful voices in the dressing room, might be counter productive, but if Root has influenced the selection process to the detriment of the teams attacking options, because they might challenge him, then he has further convinced me he is not true captain material.

If we can get the counties into regular Winter tours abroad not only will it benefit English cricket development in the ways you describe, and also the counties themselves as clubs, but what an excuse for a few long distance 'away days (weeks)' for the support. Watching Warwickshire in Australia would give me a real reason to try and get there, or to get off me backside to return to watch them in Barbados or Antigua, where I have only visited the empty Kensington Oval and Sir Viv Stadiums. Would love to watch some Warwickshire games with the local old geezers who  know more about English county cricket than I do. going to start saving me pension money just in case I am still alive when it happens :D

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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2561 on: March 08, 2022, 02:27:52 PM »
A very on brand start in the cricket.

Four overs gone, 17-2 - both openers out.

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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2562 on: March 08, 2022, 04:25:11 PM »
A very on brand start in the cricket.

Four overs gone, 17-2 - both openers out.

57/4 at lunch!

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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2563 on: March 08, 2022, 07:03:47 PM »

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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2564 on: March 08, 2022, 09:04:26 PM »
145/5 at tea!

241/6 Jonny Bairstow 101 not out. Great comeback!

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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2565 on: March 08, 2022, 09:40:17 PM »
241/6 Jonny Bairstow 101 not out. Great comeback!

Close of play 268/6.

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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2566 on: March 09, 2022, 06:49:40 AM »
More of the standard top order woes, it doesn't really matter what combination we play it seems, we just don't have any players coming through - it doesn't say much for the South African youth system does it  ;)

Bairstow is atleast saving our blushes. The only player to score centuries in the last how many tests now? I know many want to see him out of the squad but even with his mediocre average, he is worth his spot.
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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2567 on: March 09, 2022, 08:34:40 AM »
More of the standard top order woes, it doesn't really matter what combination we play it seems, we just don't have any players coming through - it doesn't say much for the South African youth system does it  ;)

Bairstow is atleast saving our blushes. The only player to score centuries in the last how many tests now? I know many want to see him out of the squad but even with his mediocre average, he is worth his spot.
He is better at batting at 6, than 3, that's for sure!
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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2568 on: March 09, 2022, 08:52:21 AM »
It was a superb knock from Bairstow
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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2569 on: March 09, 2022, 02:43:02 PM »
Day 2 collapse begins, 2 in 3 balls!
« Last Edit: March 09, 2022, 02:44:44 PM by phbaggies »
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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2570 on: March 09, 2022, 03:23:14 PM »
Just 43 added, 311 all out. Hopefully there's something in this pitch for our bowlers, lets see.....
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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2571 on: March 09, 2022, 04:19:11 PM »
Just 43 added, 311 all out. Hopefully there's something in this pitch for our bowlers, lets see.....

It’s flat as a pancake.

Overton and Woakes opening the bowling away from home?

Requiring a spinner we have no faith in after 8 overs.

Poor.
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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2572 on: March 09, 2022, 04:38:48 PM »
It’s flat as a pancake.

Overton and Woakes opening the bowling away from home?

Requiring a spinner we have no faith in after 8 overs.

Poor.
Its got the making of a long couple of days in the field if that session is anything to go by!
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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2573 on: March 09, 2022, 06:37:06 PM »
A couple of quick wickets and we are in to their soft middle order, so the bowling attack might get away with one here, but the poor start did get me looking at one stat that is a bit baffling.

We have dropped Broad and Anderson, despite them both still bowling to an acceptable level because in theory they are getting too old to be still leading the line in 18 months time. 2 of those playing today however are 33 year old Chris Woakes and 32 year old Mark Wood. Now sports science has come on and maybe both players have 2 years longer in them than Broad and Anderson have, but then neither are any where near as good as peak Broad and Anderson and so the 34-35 year old versions of Wood/Woakes likely have to retire from test cricket anyway around the same time.

It begs the question if Anderson and Broad only have a year left in their legs anyway, are Wokaes or Wood really going to last much longer than that?
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Re: England Cricket Thread
« Reply #2574 on: March 09, 2022, 08:04:33 PM »
Woakes has also always been an awful bowler away from home, baffling he still gets selected for away tours. His away bowling average is 52, he shouldn't be close to tour squads yet alone leading the attack. What did they think was going to happen?

Root shouldn't be captain if he can't deal with Anderson/Broad, as seems to be the issue. Absolute insanity to promote the worst bowler from the Ashes to our lead bowler because he's a nice guy.