John Percy Twitter AccountSo not actually 'official' yet?
Slaven Bilic is the new head coach of West Brom. 2 year deal. Announcement imminent
So not actually 'official' yet?
I just heard on radio WM that he as signed a 2 year deal and it will be announced in the next couple of hours.
Just seen it mate.Thanks
On official site already mate.
Considering some of the dross we have been linked with, I'm quite happy.
I can still see him walking in November after an argument with Jenkins.
STILL negativity.
What the hell does it take for some people? Are you on medication?
Come on man let's big ourselves up for once. Let's get everything buzzing. Remember that atmosphere vs Villa. We can do it, let's make sure we do.
PS! No offence intended. :-*
Really happy with this.
Glad we've taken our time and not rushed into getting one of the merry go round / safe pair of hands managers.
Exciting times ahead I think.
It will be interesting to discover who his background team is. I hope Shan stays in his original post.Julian Dicks hopefully for one. There will be no shirkers if he's around.
Sorry everyone. I forgot that everything will be brilliant if we sing louder, clap harder, and believe in everything the club do, even the things that contradict the other things they were doing.
PS No offence intended :P
Can all fans now get behind the club now PLEASE and stop moaning.
This isn't a cheap option and no we didn't get Appleton.
If you haven't got a season ticket, get one, lets get behind the club and make the Hawthorns a special place next season.
ATID.
Absolutely delighted with this appointment after some of the names we have been linked with, only Bilic, Jokanovic and Labbadia were acceptable to me. This is only the start, Slaven has a massive rebuild to orchestrate starting today.
In a word no. This is a start, but Dowling and Jenkins need to go a LOT further to mend the damage they have caused and regain our trust. I will however keep my powder dry until the Transfer Window closes.
Absolutely delighted with this appointment........This is only the start, Slaven has a massive rebuild to orchestrate starting today.......Dowling and Jenkins need to go a LOT further to mend the damage they have caused and regain our trust..........
Matt Wilson Twitter Account
Dowling explains the wait: “We had the opportunity to ensure we conducted a wide range of interviews and were determined to take it. We have spoken to some outstanding candidates and I would like to thank them for their interest in the post.â€
Can’t argue with the logic, no matter how frustrated fans felt about the process
Very pleased with this , shows a bit of ambition. Bilic is no fool and needs to rebuild his reputation so, if this was a hiding to nothing, due to lack of funds, I don't think he would have taken it.I hope he does a Giles (without actually playing of course... although if HRK can get a game...???)
Hope he does a Roy (without the bogging off to manage England bit)
Absolutely delighted with this appointment after some of the names we have been linked with, only Bilic, Jokanovic and Labbadia were acceptable to me. This is only the start, Slaven has a massive rebuild to orchestrate starting today.
Bilic was unemployed when DM was sacked and you didn't mention him then. But you did say:
"If we can't convince Jokanovic then Hughton is my pick.
No more average ex-players, with a 'knowledge of the club'.
Rip them out root and stem... "
Fair play to whoever had £20 on Bilic to be our manager at 28/1.....oh that would be me then! ;D ;D ;D
Happy with the appointment, shows a bit of ambition by the club which pleases me.Well if it is, by some stroke of luck on your part, 95% of pleased fans at the moment, let’s hope it doesn’t level out to the normal 50/50 split when things get tough. I’m certainly happy with the announcement.
Have to be honest at times I was fearing the worst, when we were linked with O'Neil, Cowley, Bowyer etc I did have a feeling I would end up underwhelmed, but the appointment of Bilic is high profile and a big signing for a championship club.
If Boro had got Slaven in, then I'm sure many of us would have been annoyed we hadn't gone for him.
I'm quietly confident that he will get backing this summer to build his own team aswell, he doesn't seem the type to agree to come here without their being an agreement that he can bring in some players of his own and have some money to work with.
He has a week/10 days to assess the background of the club, have a look at the squad, identify what positions he wants to strengthen, then when the players come back he can have a chat with them and decide whos committed to being here for the season and who needs to be shifted out.
Good appointment by the club and one which will please 95% of the fans.
Is Slaven the highest profile Head Coach / Manager we’ve ever appointed?Roy Hodgson definitely, biggest 'profile' since Ardiles or Bryan Robson maybe but they made their names as footballers more than managers?
I’m struggling to think of anyone with a better CV in our modern era. Roy maybe. I’d like to read what others think.
Delighted with this, best appointment since Roy. And with the right backing could do even better for us.
Board forgiven for being embarrassingly long in this, maybe they were doing it right. Maybe we should cut some slack now and see what happens.
Welcome on board, Slaven; I begrudgingly admired you at West Ham. Now instead of blowing bubbles, let's blow some smoke up the competition.......
Well...no, because we completely wasted a season and our best chance of bouncing back by them employing Moore instead of now Premier League manager, Dean Smith
Well...no, because we completely wasted a season and our best chance of bouncing back by them employing Moore instead of now Premier League manager, Dean Smith
West brom and villa are two completely different set ups, what works for one may not work for another.
Ever thought that Dean Smith may have rejected us if he was approached?
I just know I'm properly excited for the first time in ages.
Yes, I am reminded of Christmas when I was a kid ;D
Looking forward to an influx of young Croation players desperate to play under their national footballing hero. ;)
I hope. I've admired their national side since the days of Poborsky.
I hope. I've admired their national side since the days of Poborsky.
Top trolling ;D
That meant something different when I was at school :-X
I'm a knob!!! Anyway that aside, I have admired them since.... er .... that same time!!!
Feel like I've milkshaked myself! :-[
All this talk of Slaven, I was half expecting Jenkins and Dowling to pull a fast one and announce “Slaven has always been our number one target, and he fits all the criteria we had for the role ........... and we have admired Bernie since his days at Middlesbrough!†;)
Wonder when he'll be presented to the media?
Happy with the appointment but as he is likely to try and sign at least a few foreign players I’m a bit concerned his wings might be clipped post Brexit depending on any new employment rules for Europeans. If so this window might be the only one he can get the players he wants. Anybody more knowledgeable than me on this ?
Bilic wouldn't have been my choice due to the huge rebuild needed and the fact he's never been near the dog fight we find ourselves in at this level .
That said he's here now and adds a freshness the club has needed , I only hope he is backed with some decent funds.
Welcome Slav and good luck.
You have stolen my thoughts. Whilst I am optimistic and happy with the appointment, a small part of me is nervous about the work that's needed to actually rebuild this squad once the wage bill has been reduced.Dowling has to be involved in the recruitment as much as Bilic as we have to have some sort of strategy that will continue beyond Bilic's tenure. He must have been the main voice in decisions like releasing Morrison and Barry and despite press mutterings about they could theoretically be taken back on that should not happen (even in the unlikely scenario of Bilic saying he strongly wants one or both of these).
That being said, Slav seems an interesting character and I cant for one second think he would have taken this job without reassurances on being back in the transfer window.
Over to you again Dowling and Jenkins, time to back the bloke you want in the job and give him a fighting chance of getting us back up.
Happy with the appointment but as he is likely to try and sign at least a few foreign players I’m a bit concerned his wings might be clipped post Brexit depending on any new employment rules for Europeans. If so this window might be the only one he can get the players he wants. Anybody more knowledgeable than me on this ?
New article up on the official site:
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/june/bili-on-championship-ambitions-and-albion-traditions/ (https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/june/bili-on-championship-ambitions-and-albion-traditions/)
Bilić on Championship ambitions and Albion traditions
Slaven Bilić has made it clear he is relishing his first crack at a competition he describes as “the essence of football".
The 50-year-old Croatian was confirmed as Albion's new Head Coach on Thursday and, despite a career which has taken him all over Europe and to two European Championships at both club and international level, the season approaching will be his first taste of the Championship.
It is a division which he says has long fascinated him - “my friends will tell you it has been on my bucket list†- and the chance to take it on with the Baggies was hugely appealing.
Bilić said: “First of all, my friends know, and my fellow coaches know, not just here in Croatia but throughout Europe, that the Championship was always a competition that was on my bucket list.
“This is a common view and not just with me, I assure you. This is a view held by many coaches all over Europe.
“It is like the real essence of football; it is a proper league and when I get the chance to manage one of the strongest clubs in this division, it was an easy decision to make.
“I’ve played in England, I’ve managed in England. I know the club, I know West Bromwich Albion and its history, its traditions. I know their story.â€
I'm pleased with this appointment. In fact , it's the best coach we could have signed.If he could do that the government should employ him to resolve world peace, famine and brexit!!
the other names mentioned would have been interesting but they all had problems with them.
Labbida has never managed in this country, Cowley has never managed at this level, Monk has never really achieved anything, Wilder was never going to leave Sheffield.
So all in all this is the best we could have got. If he could talk Rondon in staying, Gayle to take a cut in wages, Leicester to part with Harvey Barnes, Fulham to release Johannson and Everton to release Holgate , we could be walking this league next season !!!
If he could do that the government should employ him to resolve world peace, famine and brexit!!
I would imagine that in the negotiations, Bilic would have made it clear that he has the final say and control over players. Hopefully he goes in and rips out deadwood and the old pals brigade that has clung on to contracts and stole a living from this football club by outstaying their welcome for far too long.
We need to be astute in the loan market for sure but let’s get the high wages out and the bring some youth through and hunger in.
Reece Oxford as the first one through the door would be a promising sign and a signal that young players have a future at this football club.
We desperately could do with a couple of midfielders who can help us become a possession based team again- anyone you think could be on Slavs radar from his past that could be thy player?
My first post.
Yes why not.
Slaven for the long overdue rebuild, possibly from our youth, possibly from young aspiring Croats.
Regret - immediately appointed after DM = promotion
Mark Noble - new captain ;D
Looks like Julian Dicks is joining him! That will put a stop to any player power!!
Looking at his coaching career it doesn't add up to much - currently manager of Isthmian League North Division club Heybridge Swifts.
Looking at his coaching career it doesn't add up to much - currently manager of Isthmian League North Division club Heybridge Swifts.He was a coach for Bilic during his stint at West Ham , clearly did enough for Slaven to give him the call again.
New article up on the official site:
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/june/bili-on-championship-ambitions-and-albion-traditions/ (https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/june/bili-on-championship-ambitions-and-albion-traditions/)
Bilić on Championship ambitions and Albion traditions
Slaven Bilić has made it clear he is relishing his first crack at a competition he describes as “the essence of football".
The 50-year-old Croatian was confirmed as Albion's new Head Coach on Thursday and, despite a career which has taken him all over Europe and to two European Championships at both club and international level, the season approaching will be his first taste of the Championship.
It is a division which he says has long fascinated him - “my friends will tell you it has been on my bucket list†- and the chance to take it on with the Baggies was hugely appealing.
Bilić said: “First of all, my friends know, and my fellow coaches know, not just here in Croatia but throughout Europe, that the Championship was always a competition that was on my bucket list.
“This is a common view and not just with me, I assure you. This is a view held by many coaches all over Europe.
“It is like the real essence of football; it is a proper league and when I get the chance to manage one of the strongest clubs in this division, it was an easy decision to make.
“I’ve played in England, I’ve managed in England. I know the club, I know West Bromwich Albion and its history, its traditions. I know their story.â€
If Julian isn't up to it at least we can all chant "Dicks out now!!"
My only concern is how he'll shape the squad. His transfer record at West Ham was quite poor. So it'll be an interesting summer, I'm certainly going to give him the benefit of the doubt though.
Need him in that office now as soon as possible to start shaping our squad
New article up on the official site:
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/june/bili-on-championship-ambitions-and-albion-traditions/ (https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/june/bili-on-championship-ambitions-and-albion-traditions/)
Bilić on Championship ambitions and Albion traditions
Slaven Bilić has made it clear he is relishing his first crack at a competition he describes as “the essence of football".
The 50-year-old Croatian was confirmed as Albion's new Head Coach on Thursday and, despite a career which has taken him all over Europe and to two European Championships at both club and international level, the season approaching will be his first taste of the Championship.
It is a division which he says has long fascinated him - “my friends will tell you it has been on my bucket list†- and the chance to take it on with the Baggies was hugely appealing.
Bilić said: “First of all, my friends know, and my fellow coaches know, not just here in Croatia but throughout Europe, that the Championship was always a competition that was on my bucket list.
“This is a common view and not just with me, I assure you. This is a view held by many coaches all over Europe.
“It is like the real essence of football; it is a proper league and when I get the chance to manage one of the strongest clubs in this division, it was an easy decision to make.
“I’ve played in England, I’ve managed in England. I know the club, I know West Bromwich Albion and its history, its traditions. I know their story.â€
Juilan Dicks will be one of them.Can we bring him on just to take penalties?
I was hoping Bilic and the backroom staff would officially be unveiled today.
Can we bring him on just to take penalties?It was in the press last week. He was with Bilic at West Ham.
What makes you think this? have they worked together before? Not heard of Dicks since he packed in playing to be honest. Wouldn't think he would suffer fools gladly though, unless he's mellowed as a coach.
When are we to see Bilic working for us?
Other clubs are signing players,what are we doing?
It seems we are reactive not proactive,its like were waiting for offers for our players but not looking for new ones.
I expected some action anybody itk?
So Matt Wilson has said that we expect to announce 2 of Bilic’ backroom staff today, after appointments over the weekend. Any idea who these could be?No idea..............but then neither does Matt Wilson. Wrong again Matt, one day you will guess right.
Sound like interesting appointments - good to see a couple more fresh faces come in to shake up the coaching side.
I like the sound of DANILO BUTOROVIĆ - multi lingual and "expertise in technology and analysis will see him focusing particularly on pre-match preparation, recruitment and training preparations and assessment."
Julian Dicks manages Heybridge Swifts who play in the fifth division of the Isthmian League North. Can't see us matching their transfer budget or compo' demands. Time to move on to the next target before getting our hopes up, and as for landing that twenty plus goal striker of theirs we've got no chance.........Fair point.
From the sounds of things, Dean Racunia, is more of a long time adviser to Bilic looking at the posts he held when they worked together with the national team, although some individualised player work is referenced. The fact he has been out in Australia suggests he will be able to speak English. Danilo Butorovic sounds like he will be doing more of the technical analysis stuff and I dare say he'll be looking after set-pieces. Good to hear of a modern coach working in there and I'd imagine he will work well with Shan. Shan has been retained so it suggests that both he and Bilic will carry out much of the physical coaching. Good that Shan will still be involved in my view, clearly seems like a talented coach and a decent chap to boot. Financially it makes sense to retain some backroom staff so that you are not always paying out lots every time a manager is sacked however this seems a good balance as it is good to have fresh faces, voices and ideas.
There is a large Croatian population in Australia though.
Danilo Butorovic sounds like he will be doing more of the technical analysis stuff and I dare say he'll be looking after set-pieces.
Apart from old-man Brunt we don't have any one who can take a free kick!
Its a very quiet from our new head coaches ay it?
Its all gone a bit flat after the initial appointments.
What's going on anyone know?
He’s on holiday.
Apart from old-man Brunt we don't have any one who can take a free kick!Brunt can put it in a dangerous area from a crossed free kick but as far as hitting the target from a direct free kick...he can't control his shooting.
Does anyone know when slavs press conference is?
The game is supposed to be more technical these days, yet there is a shortage of players who can do basic things like take a free kick, head the ball or play with both feet. How about a winger continually skinning a back on the outside? Haven't seen that in years.
Pampered overpaid prima donnars that's what they are.
Does anyone know when slavs press conference is?
Matt Wilson Twitter Account
Slaven Bilic’s appointment last week led to a little surge in season ticket sales. Now more than 16,000 seats sold.
A couple of other tidbits in that piece. Dowling told sponsors this week that #wba are keen to keep Jay Rod (who has a £10m release clause) and Bilic wants to look at Gareth Barry once he returns from his knee injury
Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/06/22/slaven-bilic-appointment-leads-to-surge-in-season-ticket-sales/
Read this and my heart sank a little we really have to move on. Slaven you are 50 you can't have players you played against in your squad it is almost not natural.
Was our best midfielder (Barnes apart) over the course of last season, for me would be massively dependant on wages as to have both Barry and Brunt competing for the same position (no competition to be honest as Brunt is not suited to that role) on big wages is a mistake when those wages could be used elsewhere.
It clearly is competition because Brunt keeps on being picked there.
But it shouldn't be and its obvious to nearly all of us.
Don't mind Slaven having a look at Barry, Morrison who was a great signing would be a bridge to far. Keeping jrod seems sensible if we can't get Gayle.
Hope he utilises our blossoming youth academy before looking to get loan signings for pre season and season to come.
Who is it that doesn't see it...
I wouldn't be against Barry if we can get 20+ games out of him.
Hope Bilic gives some kids a chance but the most important thing is that they are good enough to step up to warrant a chance. No point him giving kids a go regularly if they are not good enough.don't know what these youngsters have to do to get a run of games, some of the dross they got in on short term contracts or on loan didn't pull up many trees last season and what I've seen of our kids they wouldnt have been worse so I'd be hoping that they are given a fair chance.
Nice to see the images of him arriving this morning. Let's get down to business...
Bilić saying all the right things but not much substance from Dowling yet.Is there a livestream?
Is there a livestream?
He sounded like he was genuinely pleased to be here. I think he will command alot of respect in the dressing room. He comes across as someone with the personality to get the best out of players.
On OS now.
He sounded like he was genuinely pleased to be here. I think he will command alot of respect in the dressing room. He comes across as someone with the personality to get the best out of players.I agree with that Alex, and to be fair I thought that Dowling came over well too. Lets hope that they can work well together.
The thing that struck me most about the press conference, other than Slaven's sincerity, was the indication that there may not be the mass exodus a lot of us were expecting. It came across very much that the current squad that we have here seem happy and contented and nobody seems to be chomping at the bit to leave. There is definitely a very marked contrast in Dawson's demeanour, for example.
Is this a good thing? Well yes it has to be. The squad does need freshening up, we need to bring in energy, creativity and we need numbers in certain areas but it makes life easier when you can pick and choose who you want and who you don't want rather than having changes forced upon you and then you have to react to them leaving you no solid base to work from.
Very positive signs.
Nothing for me to moan about .......... yet. ;)
The thing that struck me most about the press conference, other than Slaven's sincerity, was the indication that there may not be the mass exodus a lot of us were expecting. It came across very much that the current squad that we have here seem happy and contented and nobody seems to be chomping at the bit to leave. There is definitely a very marked contrast in Dawson's demeanour, for example.
Is this a good thing? Well yes it has to be. The squad does need freshening up, we need to bring in energy, creativity and we need numbers in certain areas but it makes life easier when you can pick and choose who you want and who you don't want rather than having changes forced upon you and then you have to react to them leaving you no solid base to work from.
Very positive signs.
Nothing for me to moan about .......... yet. ;)
The thing that struck me most about the press conference, other than Slaven's sincerity, was the indication that there may not be the mass exodus a lot of us were expecting. It came across very much that the current squad that we have here seem happy and contented and nobody seems to be chomping at the bit to leave. There is definitely a very marked contrast in Dawson's demeanour, for example.
Is this a good thing? Well yes it has to be. The squad does need freshening up, we need to bring in energy, creativity and we need numbers in certain areas but it makes life easier when you can pick and choose who you want and who you don't want rather than having changes forced upon you and then you have to react to them leaving you no solid base to work from.
Very positive signs.
Nothing for me to moan about .......... yet. ;)
We still need to potentially reduce the wage bill don't we? I still believe Dawson will leave and then I still expect to see one of Rodriguez/Hegazi/Gibbs/Phillips/Livermore to be moved on aswell as they are the 'big' earners.
From what I have heard, Jay Rod hasn't pushed to leave and is just cracking on business as usual. With Egypt potentially going far in their tournament that could help us in keeping Hegazi aswell. If someone comes in with a decent enough bid for Gibbs/Livermore than I can see us moving them on to free up some wages.
Would love to see us keep Rodriguez, Gibbs and Hegazi. Phillips is a huge player for us when he is fit and I would like to see him stay also. Not too fussed on losing Dawson if a decent bid comes in, and I can't see any prem team stupid enough to offer any decent money for Livermore.
Biggest test for Slaven is to get our youngsters tied down to long term contracts starting with Barry and Harper. Club need to instill a pride in wearing the shirt for kids going through the youth setup, former players should be brought on board to emphasis this point.
To be fair though when you’ve got Barcelona , Juventus and PSG interested what can you do. Those 3 clubs are very hard to compete with :Dcan't beat going down the Albion, I'll take the Hawthorns any day of the week.
West Bromwich , Paris , Barcelona or Turin not exactly a hard choice is it
Just found a very nice 'personal' message in my emails
Dear Frank,
I wanted to take this opportunity to introduce myself and thank you for your support and warm welcome as we begin preparing for a new season.
I am delighted to have been appointed as your new Head Coach because I genuinely believe we can be good together. This is a club which I know has a special place in English football and I am going to do all I can to help us achieve what we all desire.
Promotion back to the Premier League is the main aim of course. It is no easy or simple task as I am sure you are aware. There are so many strong teams and big clubs in this division; nothing can be guaranteed.
The Championship is crazy and competitive but we have set our sights on returning to the top flight and I will do all I can to give you a team in which you will take pride and enjoyment on the course of our journey.
As I said at the media conference this week, we do not yet know what the make-up of the squad will be but what we can say is that we’re going to play as a unit - that’s 100 per cent - and play with passion, play with energy; play each game like it’s the last game of our lives.
I have spent many years in English football in my career and so I am aware of Albion’s traditions and standing in the history of the game. It is a proud club and one I am privileged to now lead.
So thank you for welcoming me. We have plenty of work to do because I know there will be challenges ahead to shape the team that I hope you will enjoy watching.
Mostly, I hope I can continue to justify the support you have already shown me.
My best wishes
Slaven Bilic
It's a stroke of genius on the club and his part. It sounds very sincere too. I am mightily impressed.
Weirdly bumped into the only West Ham fan I know on Saturday (I live in St Anne's just outside of Blackpool). He went mad with enthusiasm on our behalf and just said 'look after him'.
I do believe we should.
Just found a very nice 'personal' message in my emailsReally don’t like this sort of thing , each to their own but it’s cringe at best
Dear Frank,
I wanted to take this opportunity to introduce myself and thank you for your support and warm welcome as we begin preparing for a new season.
I am delighted to have been appointed as your new Head Coach because I genuinely believe we can be good together. This is a club which I know has a special place in English football and I am going to do all I can to help us achieve what we all desire.
Promotion back to the Premier League is the main aim of course. It is no easy or simple task as I am sure you are aware. There are so many strong teams and big clubs in this division; nothing can be guaranteed.
The Championship is crazy and competitive but we have set our sights on returning to the top flight and I will do all I can to give you a team in which you will take pride and enjoyment on the course of our journey.
As I said at the media conference this week, we do not yet know what the make-up of the squad will be but what we can say is that we’re going to play as a unit - that’s 100 per cent - and play with passion, play with energy; play each game like it’s the last game of our lives.
I have spent many years in English football in my career and so I am aware of Albion’s traditions and standing in the history of the game. It is a proud club and one I am privileged to now lead.
So thank you for welcoming me. We have plenty of work to do because I know there will be challenges ahead to shape the team that I hope you will enjoy watching.
Mostly, I hope I can continue to justify the support you have already shown me.
My best wishes
Slaven Bilic
If you watch his press conference and interviews with Adrian Childs he comes across very well indeed, he gives you cause for optimism
I'm very excited mate!!! Long time since..........Does anyone know where James Shan figures in the hierarchy now? I have seen no mention of his status.
Does anyone know where James Shan figures in the hierarchy now? I have seen no mention of his status.
Really don’t like this sort of thing , each to their own but it’s cringe at best
Agreed. I will judge him on what I see on the pitch but I am happy with how he is going about things thus far.Call me cynical If you like but the social media team need to wind all this #SuperSlav stuff in IMO , way too early .
Call me cynical If you like but the social media team need to wind all this #SuperSlav stuff in IMO , way too early .
Sometimes the club cannot win.
I for one have been critical of their communication skills in the past, so I am pleasantly surprised with the Slaven letter (even though he didn’t write to me😖).
Yep. Bloody whingers.Whose whinging ? , I feel the letter is fine but the twitter stuff is awful right now .
Whose whinging ? , I feel the letter is fine but the twitter stuff is awful right now .
This Club and the Owner have a lot of ground to catch up after frankly a poor 2 years full of mistakes on and off the pitch . Credit for attracting Bilic but let him get a month or two under his belt before a huge PR drive thats almost too much/sickening .
That's how I feel - the proof is in the pudding eh.....?
That's how I feel - the proof is in the pudding eh.....?
Whose whinging ? , I feel the letter is fine but the twitter stuff is awful right now .
This Club and the Owner have a lot of ground to catch up after frankly a poor 2 years full of mistakes on and off the pitch . Credit for attracting Bilic but let him get a month or two under his belt before a huge PR drive thats almost too much/sickening .
Fair enough. I just feel pretty confident the pudding is about to be served. With a plum.
Hopefully but losing Gayle, Johansen , Holgate and Barnes (not replacing him) means we're already trying to plug some big holes in the first team let alone the squad. Our subs bench vs Villa would be our first team (Leko, Edwards, Field) . We'll also lose at least 3 or 4 first team players on top of losing the loanees I think (Dawson, JRod plus one other maybe Hegazi, Livermore or Phillips).
Dowling needs to help Bilic replace and build a brand new first team and squad (I reckon 11 new players are needed in the squad - three new strikers, four midfielders and four defenders) so we'll have to judge Dowling/ the club on the support they provide by September when we've seen our squad take shape.
Bilic is a great start though.....as he'll hopefully help to attract better players!
Nice email, now for some players. So chop chop Messrs Dowling, Jenkins and Bilic as I'm sure you have a few in mind. While nobody wants you to act in haste and repent at leisure, time and tide wait for no man (or tea lady), actions speak louder than words, a rolling stone gathers no moss, don't let the grass grow under your feet, jumpers for goalposts..... and roll on the new season - COYB 8) .
I was excited from the day i heard his name first mentioned, but i didn't get excited too much because i thought he was just a smokescreen and we would employ Hughton or Appleton.
It's been a long time since Albion have excited me, the last few years have been a drudge.
But now we have a larger than life, of the wall, outrageous, passionate manager. I think it's going to be fun.
I think you inadvertently omitted “a stitch in time saves nineâ€, but the rest are spot on ;)
Nope, just leaving crumbs along the way for others to follow ;D ;) .
Slaven Bilic defends his short spell in Saudi Arabia
Interesting read
Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/06/26/slaven-bilic-defends-his-short-spell-in-saudi-arabia/
The last time you got this excited about the Albion was November 2009 under Mowbray when we beat Leicester 1-2 ;) .
I don't think anyone is getting carried away, certainly not Slaven himself, we all know how tough this division is.
But after years of number two's and novices we finally have a bona fide manager in every sense of the word.
This time last year when they gave it to Darren, i was in despair, another cheap option, nothing to lose except an Albion legends standing amongt the fans.
If we had appointed Hughton, or worse still, Appleton or Shan it would have been another sunless summer.
Sorry that is just plain wrong Pulis and Pardew were not cheap. I am fairly certain they would both be paid more than Bilic is currently. In the sense they had at least twice the experience than Bilic has were "bona fide managers
I don't want this appointment to go wrong and I am hopeful that it won't but it has the capacity to crash and burn as much as any of those you mentioned.
First team coach same position that he had under MooreReally? I had my suspicions about where Jimmy would be
Really? I had my suspicions about where Jimmy would be
I am sure that Stan can speak for himself. I am also sure that I new where Jimmy Shan would end up!
When Stan posted this Shan was 1st team coach.
Every manager is a risk when appointed. You are never too sure how it will work but slaven ticks many more boxes than Irvine, Big Dave, Pardew, etc.
Pulis did the job he was asked to do and ticked a lot of boxes at the time. Slaven ticks different boxes and maybe a few more.
Pulis ticked no boxes for meBilic for me.
He's the 1st manager in a long time that has made me feel posative for our future,right man right time just needs the backing with £££ for transfars. He has a MASSIVE job on his hands i just hope everyone keeps their feet off his throught.
Pulis was the man right time but after keeping us up he should have gone,Job Done
Me too, can't remember the last time I was so looking forward to the start of the season.
He's been given 2 years to see what he can do, lets give him the chance
I can’t recall reading anyone who has posted on this thread that isn’t
I wonder if he is getting frustrated yet by the lack of signings?
Ally Robertson: I hope Slaven Bilic tells us exactly what he thinks
Sensible article from Ally
Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/07/05/ally-robertson-i-hope-slaven-bilic-tells-us-exactly-what-he-thinks/
Ally Robertson: I hope Slaven Bilic tells us exactly what he thinks
Sensible article from Ally
Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/07/05/ally-robertson-i-hope-slaven-bilic-tells-us-exactly-what-he-thinks/
Wonder how much Bilic is on board with the current situation of losing our best players ?
Wonder how much Bilic is on board with the current situation of losing our best players ?
Wonder how much Bilic is on board with the current situation of losing our best players ?
Wonder how much Bilic is on board with the current situation of losing our best players ?
I'd expect him to be fully on board with it otherwise we could well be looking for another manager sooner rather than we expectedIndeed I don't think he is the kind to "suffer fools" and I may be unkind there.But can only go on last seasons performance.
he knows exactly what he's been sold! dont panic! he's got signings lined up ready to fill those voids!
Wouldn't surprise me if he walks god knows what bull his been sold.
Wouldn't surprise me if he walks god knows what bull his been sold.I’m pretty sure he would have been well aware of Rodriguez release clause, there hasn’t been an unexpected departure at all yet.
Wouldn't surprise me if he walks god knows what bull his been sold.
This is something that needed doing at the start of last season.
But I don't think we had the personnel confident enough of doing such changes.
Lets face it , we failed last season. So we need to change the team so that we don't fail again. We might need a season to set the foundations but in the long run I am sure it will all come good.
If we had kept the side that finished last season we would not have made the play offs next season
The defence was not good enough, the midfield was to old and not mobile enough and the attack was not sharp enough.
Absolutely right in every respect. We were crying out for sweeping changes last Summer, on and off the pitch. Instead we were stuck with Moore and the same backroom and the same under achieving players, nothing changed, no new impetus, just a wasted season. Now we are having the much needed (vital) sweeping changes, people are panicking. It's a year too late in my eyes but it's exactly what is required. I knew we would be 99% certain to be losing Dawson, Rodriguez, Rondon and Hegazi so I'm damn sure Slaven did too! He would be preparing his targets with that knowledge. I'm quite sure Slaven is thrilled deep down that he can put his own stamp and mark on the team without being reliant on and lumbered with the old guard. I for one am excited by the season ahead. Slaven will do us proud.
Whilst I agree with much of your sentiment, I'm not sure that loaning players on one year deals will achieve this. Surely we will be back to square one this time next year when they leave. Will it become another two year project at that point?
Nathan you are talking way too much sense here mate, it goes against the grain with our supporters.
You only have to watch the press conference with Dowling and Bilic when Bilic was unveiled to realise that not only is Bilic aware of the "rebuild" he actually desires it, it is absolutely imperative that it happens in order for Slaven to build the type of team that he wants. The talk was of higher tempo, energetic football, you cannot successfully play that way with a squad full of old, one paced plodders (no disrespect to them). How many times last season were we crying out for us to up the tempo in games? We couldn't do it because we didn't have the players to do it. Imagine Bilic being stuck with the same squad, there's not a lot he could do with them.
Fans are impatient they want players in NOW! Well, it doesn't always work like that. We now have Rodriguez and Dawson's wages off the books, together with the fees we received for those players, that gives us ammunition in the transfer market and with the imminent departure of Rondon we will be in a very strong position (I'm not sure Hegazi will leave). Slaven will know who he wants, there will be people lined up and they'll start coming in soon enough.
What fans need to take on board also is both Dowling and Bilic stating a two year project so although it'd be ideal for the club, promotion next season is NOT absolutely imperative. It might take a bit more time than this transfer window for Slaven to assemble the squad he desires. It's not what fans want to hear I'm sure but in the long run it's better for the club. Papering over cracks doesn't do the job long term, the walls still fall down, only building properly gets consistent results in the long term.
The club has been left in a mess by previous mismanagement. You don't solve those issues overnight. It takes a bit of time and patience.
In Slaven we must trust.
I just hope he utilises our dwindling youth set up, prefer our kids getting game time than other teams loans.
So you prefer not winning matches?
Leko ahead of Barnes; Burke ahead of Gayle; Wilson ahead of Holgate. Or is it only the loan players you don't like that are a problem?
Agreed. The fascination with the youth from some of the posters on here baffles me. Do we want to be successful or get relegated, at which point our academy will suffer yet further and the standard of youth players we bring in will drop yet further but at least they will be 'our own' despite the fact none of them can pick a pass.
This is something that needed doing at the start of last season.
I think you're right. I grew to really hate some of the players that got us relegated. At the end of that season I'd have been happy to see them all go. After a year of more attacking style I was warmer towards them. But my favourite players last season were Barnes and Gayle, not any of the relegation crew.Any incoming transfer is a risk, regardless whether it's £1m or £100m, but you are right this needs to happen. The alternative is to keep players that have failed for 2 or 3 seasons and are clearly in decline in terms of ability and / or commitment.
Right now Phillips is our best attacking player. I really resented him when we were getting relegated. His lack of effort, heart and complete cowardice at any sign of a challenge was mind blowing. He's in the last year of his contract now, so he'll be gone if we get a decent offer (or for free next year).
I believe that dismantling the side from last season is the correct move because they failed to achieve their target last season. The same players would have achieved far less this year.
The trouble at the moment is that fans need to start seeing additions to the squad to get that little bit of doubt out of their mind.
We have 30 days of the transfer window left. We need to see additions within the next 7 days. If not it could be squeaky bum time !!!!
I could not disagree more. With a better/actual manager in place, those players would have won the league last season.
I could not disagree more. With a better/actual manager in place, those players would have won the league last season.
i agree. the squad was there but was managed very poorly which is why we underachieved and finished 4th.
the person who had to take most of the blame for that i see still isnt in another managerial job which does not surprise me.
Yeah, totally agree. The majority of that squad finished 10th in the Prem. We then had a bad season with a terrible managerial appointment. The squad should have been able to finish top 2 and if you look at the points we threw away we should have.I still can't believe the way we went about that, by November every other side had worked out that we would probably gift them 1 or 2 goals a game if they gave us the charge when we played out. And so it went.
And when I say threw away, I mean, if we hadn't persisted on playing it out from the back and just settled it a normal approach to games. We were our own worst enemy last season.
you for got Murphy, Montero, Tosh and Johansen great loan signings not. Give the kids a run of games and they might surprise a few no wonder we are having problems retaining talent.
So you prefer not winning matches?
Leko ahead of Barnes; Burke ahead of Gayle; Wilson ahead of Holgate. Or is it only the loan players you don't like that are a problem?
The loan players you have mentioned offered much quality and have improved the team.
So you prefer not winning matches?
Leko ahead of Barnes; Burke ahead of Gayle; Wilson ahead of Holgate. Or is it only the loan players you don't like that are a problem?
The loan players you have mentioned offered much quality and have improved the team.
But the others such as Murphy and Adarabioyo, were they really much better than Kyle Edwards, Fitzwater or Dara O'shea?
Oh, it's the 1st time I saw someone rated Murphy.
Yes much better.
This is why so many fans on these forums are not disappointed that Dawson and Jrod have left. the players last season were just not good enough.The table doesn't lie !!!
A striker wins you matches, a good defence wins you championships !!
Wouldn't surprise me if he walks god knows what bull his been sold.He’s cool with everything that’s going on. Just read his comments on transfers and he’s on the case. Interesting what he says about the kids out in Spain too, rates them highly but says they need experienced players round them. I trust him to put together a good squad. He’s going to be busy in the next four weeks though!
New video interview with Bilić up on the OS. Confirms Rondon will leave in the next few days for those of us hoping he might stay.
I think most of our signings will be loan players, and imo it is the right way to go.
See where we finish and how good they are. If we go up we could have the choice of either signing them or signing better.
Anyway decent players aren't going to commit long term to a Championship club.
He doesn't CONFIRM Rondon will go at all. Like all of us he fully expects he will leave. That is not confirmation.
'Probably Salomon is going to go as well and hopefully it will happen quick.'
Sounds as much like confirmation he won't be here as anything he can say without jeopardizing any deal by naming clubs etc.
It's enough for me and I imagine most people who aren't obtusely pedantic.
It's nothing to do with being pedantic. He says "probably" Rondon will leave. 95% of us would say exactly the same. That isn't CONFIMATION that he is leaving, unless I've misunderstood the English language.
Well you've emphasised a made up word so it's possible... ;D
Felt abit more relaxed after hearing Slav talk.
He seems really calm about the situation which makes me think they are in good positions with some targets. He also mentions he has some good contacts, ones I think he will use to coup us some decent players on loan.
In Slav we trust.
It's nothing to do with being pedantic. He says "probably" Rondon will leave. 95% of us would say exactly the same. That isn't CONFIMATION that he is leaving, unless I've misunderstood the English language.
That is not the way to go !!!
Thats what happened last year Barnes and Gayle were our best players and now we are looking at the forth coming season without them.
What ever happens about signings permanent or loans something has to happen quick.
Don't expect to get 5 new signings a week before the season starts and expect them to click into a team straightaway.
Every day that goes by without a signing I am getting a little bit more worried about next season .
We should be getting players in first and then selling the surplus, not the other way around.
This season could go one of two ways. We could end up with the minimum amount of signings, get money in for the ones we can, Lai pockets the cash, we struggle and Bilic leaves before Christmas.
Or Bilic gets the players he wants and we have a good season.
I'm afraid I wouldn,t put money on either just yet
Clearly got targets and money so no need to panic, will be busy right up until deadline day I expect.
Slav isn't the issue though is he? who negotiates and signs the contracts?
Even with a fee for Rondon, we are not going to have alot of money to chuck about for new purchases
We had no hope of permanently signing either players and both made a huge impact. To me they are a great example of why we should use loans. Holgate too!
Also, buying players before selling? Come on. This is just basic stuff. I assume that when you buy a new car you buy it and then look to sell your old car? Same with when you buy a house?
Yes I buy my car I would never think of loaning one. Because no matter how good that loan car is I would have to give it back one day and I would be without a car ......................... a bit like loaning a player.
Put it this way. Our Prem parachute money is going to be less than last year, so I can't see us buying alot more than last season. And who did we buy last season?
Why not? We have an income of about £90m and a wage bill of circa £30m. Surely we have plenty to spend on transfers and wages with all the outgoing players and parachute money.
Why not? We have an income of about £90m and a wage bill of circa £30m. Surely we have plenty to spend on transfers and wages with all the outgoing players and parachute money.
Worse analogy ever. Youd just loan another car... much like Albion. Or buy a car with the money you saved by loaning last year...
What save money by loaning !!!!! Do you think these loan players come free ??? There is always a fee to be paid for loaning a player, so that money like loaning a car is dead money. Where if you buy a player he is yours and hopefully he might be worth something in the future. ( The Jrod deal is an exception because we lost money on that !!! )
If we had purchased Barnes and Gayle we would have been in a lot better position now !!!!
What save money by loaning !!!!! Do you think these loan players come free ??? There is always a fee to be paid for loaning a player, so that money like loaning a car is dead money. Where if you buy a player he is yours and hopefully he might be worth something in the future. ( The Jrod deal is an exception because we lost money on that !!! )
If we had purchased Barnes and Gayle we would have been in a lot better position now !!!!
Why not? We have an income of about £90m and a wage bill of circa £30m. Surely we have plenty to spend on transfers and wages with all the outgoing players and parachute money.
What's this £90 million income? Can you break it down? Seems an estimate on the VERY high side.
Rondon is still our player.
Rodriguez cost Burnley £5 million.
Have a look at Stans post for more accurate figures.
Rodriguez cost Burnley £10m as you well know, good effort though. Like all transfers the fee is to be paid in instalments. Secondly, is anyone realistically expecting Rondon's clause not to be met this summer? Stan's figures are similar to my own, save for he had not accounted for incoming transfers fees of £36.5m. I'd presumed our wage bill now stands at £25m. He said it was £38m last summer, with all the players gone that it might be even lower than £25m at present. Overall income is around £70m with Rondon or £86m with him sold and our wages can't be more than £25m so we should have £45-60m to invest in rebuilding the team.
-Parachute payment 2nd year: £35m
-Champ TV revenue: £8.5m (£7.8m plus £50k each live game).
-Dawson £6m
-Jrod £10m
-Rondon £16.5m
-Morgan Rogers £4m
-Ticket, match day and commercial £7m
That’s £87m income and I’ve probably underestimated our season ticket, match day and commercial income.
I can’t see how our wage bill can be any more than £25m as it stands, we only have 16 established players to pay.
We have bills to pay as players are bought and sold in instalments but that works both ways. So we’re playing the final part for Gibbs this summer and getting more money in for Chadli.
That would leave £62m to spend on transfers and wages without being in debt. Even if I’m £10m out it’s a lot of money available. Not that I’m confident the board are going to spend it or spend it wisely.
I'll have a wager with you we wont spend more than £20 million.
Stumbled onto the Slaven Bilic thread half expecting sagacious discourse as to the effeminacy of his seated posture in contrast to the square jawed masculinity displayed when drawing on his cigarettes being subliminal evidence of the 'The Jenkins Effect' on his tortured inner soul. General accountancy of figures plucked out of thin air in several cases then jumbled with an imaginary abacus flying through the air's far more stimulating though. Phew, ;D .
Stumbled onto the Slaven Bilic thread half expecting sagacious discourse as to the effeminacy of his seated posture in contrast to the square jawed masculinity displayed when drawing on his cigarettes being subliminal evidence of the 'The Jenkins Effect' on his tortured inner soul. General accountancy of figures plucked out of thin air in several cases then jumbled with an imaginary abacus flying through the air's far more stimulating though. Phew, ;D .
great imagery although it's more likely to be salacious discourse rather than sagacious!
I don't know why, but i am looking forward to the start of the new season. Probably because i always do, but i think more because we will have a new manager and see new players.
Seems that Bilic may put his faith in Oli Burke?Bilic doesn't have many other alternatives to Burke up front at the moment.
I say this based on our social media at the moment, it seems to be featuring Burke a lot. It could be really good management if Bilic was able to unlock his potential.
Seems that Bilic may put his faith in Oli Burke?
I say this based on our social media at the moment, it seems to be featuring Burke a lot. It could be really good management if Bilic was able to unlock his potential.
Slav isn't the issue though is he? who negotiates and signs the contracts?The person that got Barnes,Gayle,Holgate on loan, the same person that convinced an out of contract "billy big balls apparently" teenager to sign a three year deal
The person that got Barnes,Gayle,Holgate on loan, the same person that convinced an out of contract "billy big balls apparently" teenager to sign a three year deal
I actually think he's good at his job
Dowling?You and your facts 😂
If so he didn't join until end of September so Gayle and Barnes nothing to do with him and I would say Bilic persuaded Harper to stay more than anything.
You and your facts 😂
I'm not having the bit about Harper, we would have been well down the line before Slav joined
Seems that Bilic may put his faith in Oli Burke?
I say this based on our social media at the moment, it seems to be featuring Burke a lot. It could be really good management if Bilic was able to unlock his potential.
Oli Burke reminds me of Steve Kindon of Dingles, only with more ability, wasted on the wing as he doesn't look up enough, but could be useful down the middle provided we get a decent striker alongside him, and i don't mean HRK.Steve Kindon. The build of a carthorse..speed of a racehorse..brains of a rocking horse. :D
We had no hope of permanently signing either players and both made a huge impact. To me they are a great example of why we should use loans. Holgate too!
Also, buying players before selling? Come on. This is just basic stuff. I assume that when you buy a new car you buy it and then look to sell your old car? Same with when you buy a house?
I DO think he has been given a short term brief of 'work with the kids and whatever signings we can get this season, with a view to more signings next season in the Prem.'
If anyone can get the youth working to their maximum though I'd put money on Slaven.
Interesting times I think.
Every player has his price . It depends how confident Albion with their purchasing !!!
The second point , Isn't that what I said !!!! , buy players first then get rid of anyone you want to sell.
However, we have done it the other way around and a lot of West Brom fans are getting nervous because as it stands our forward line is HRK and Burke.
I know Bilic says we have irons in the fire but one fire went out yesterday when Callum Robinson went to Sheff Utd and we had bid for him.
At the moment our squad looks like a relegation battle squad. We have got one new player in and he's a loan and now there is only about 25 days to go !!!.
We need to be seeing at least one player a week from now, if not more.
Every player has his price . It depends how confident Albion with their purchasing !!!
The second point , Isn't that what I said !!!! , buy players first then get rid of anyone you want to sell.
However, we have done it the other way around and a lot of West Brom fans are getting nervous because as it stands our forward line is HRK and Burke.
I know Bilic says we have irons in the fire but one fire went out yesterday when Callum Robinson went to Sheff Utd and we had bid for him.
At the moment our squad looks like a relegation battle squad. We have got one new player in and he's a loan and now there is only about 25 days to go !!!.
We need to be seeing at least one player a week from now, if not more.
You missed my point. You are forgetting the basics of cash flow and managing the finances. Unless we have a bottomless pool of cash - which we don’t - then we have to sell first. Buying players on the assumption that we will sell player x for value x would be totally irresponsible.
Thank goodness you don’t run the club - we’d be broke in a summer.
Let's face it we are not talking about millions. And just to put the record straight I was the accountant for many manufacturing companies and if we ever needed a new manufacturing machine we would buy it first then offload the old one to another company. The reason for doing this was because we would never lose any manufacturing hours !!!
So using your scenario we are now sitting here without a decent striker, constantly missing out on potential targets and the clock is ticking. Will we replace the 40+ goals we have lost . No . Clubs also know how much they can push the asking price too because they will know how much money we have !!!
We see other clubs buying strikers. Even Tom Eaves of Gillingham 20+ goals last season, avaliable on a free. Could have been a good back up striker or potential 1st choice . But Hull beat us to him.
Like I said before, at the moment our squad is relegation battle material.
So let's just be thankful you don't run our club because we would start the season without any players and have a relegation battle on our hands.
Bilic is potentially a good manager and could potentially do a good job for us but the club need to give him the tools !!!!
Hmmm :)
So the lesson today is buy before you sell !!!!
As every day passes the more I’m convincing myself bilic will walk before the season starts . We’re a a mess
Get the sheet out on the first Sky TV match...Jenkins and Dowling OUT !The saying goes "Dont shoot the Messanger ".They are only acting on the messages they are getting from China . We are in a bl...y Mess
The saying goes "Dont shoot the Messanger ".They are only acting on the messages they are getting from China . We are in a bl...y Mess
As every day passes the more I’m convincing myself bilic will walk before the season starts . We’re a a mess
Not a chance in my view. He will have been told score before he took the job. Just hope I’m right........
If we had been really serious about going up last season we wouldn't have appointed a rookie manager, and we would have certainly had someone lined up when we sacked him, not let the season peter out with another Rookie.
Everybody who is talking about Bilic walking and stressing out....hasn't it occurred to you that we will be doing our business late on, probably a big proportion on deadline day? We're also probably being a creatively flexible with our wage bill to save a few extra quid. We're not going to spend months waiting for Bilic, then pay his wages and not back him do you? When I say back him, I don't mean spending £5m-€20m on multiple players but to make wages available for high quality loans, and free transfers. We'll do plenty of business this window, while it's better to get them in early, I'd rather wait for the right players rather than panicking and getting any old player in because we're light of numbers in training for a few weeks. Stoke signed 5 players in a day a while back, does that mean they have an advantage over us? We can't know that till our business is complete.That’s true and it’s what I’m clinging onto but it’s now getting very late to buy right and integrate them all in time to hit the ground running. The fact that Slaven Bilic is expressing concerns is more worrying.
Everybody who is talking about Bilic walking and stressing out....hasn't it occurred to you that we will be doing our business late on, probably a big proportion on deadline day? We're also probably being a creatively flexible with our wage bill to save a few extra quid. We're not going to spend months waiting for Bilic, then pay his wages and not back him do you? When I say back him, I don't mean spending £5m-€20m on multiple players but to make wages available for high quality loans, and free transfers. We'll do plenty of business this window, while it's better to get them in early, I'd rather wait for the right players rather than panicking and getting any old player in because we're light of numbers in training for a few weeks. Stoke signed 5 players in a day a while back, does that mean they have an advantage over us? We can't know that till our business is complete.I could marry you
I don't think we can jump to too many conclusions just yet. I can understand that getting the money for Rondon would be an important factor, and lets face it, the deal was only agreed in the last 48 hours (even then its not completly official). If there was a last minute hitch, we could have a very awkward cash flow situation, if we'd made commitments elsewhere. We certainly need alot of incoming players, esp strikers, though ironically I think some on the Forum haven't helped things by encouraging Dawson and JayRod's departures.
About Billic, I don't know who's heard what, but I think Matt Wilson has his ear close to the ground (and he was out on the Costa Blanca). On his podcast, he too picked up on Billic's concerns about lack of new players, but he wasn't suggesting it was panic stations. When Billic's was first interviewed he also acknowledged there was some luck involved in getting the right players in.
Don't get me wrong, losing Gayle and JayRod's goals especially, has given us a major problem, but let's see where we are on Transfer Deadline day.
Everybody who is talking about Bilic walking and stressing out....hasn't it occurred to you that we will be doing our business late on, probably a big proportion on deadline day? We're also probably being a creatively flexible with our wage bill to save a few extra quid. We're not going to spend months waiting for Bilic, then pay his wages and not back him do you? When I say back him, I don't mean spending £5m-€20m on multiple players but to make wages available for high quality loans, and free transfers. We'll do plenty of business this window, while it's better to get them in early, I'd rather wait for the right players rather than panicking and getting any old player in because we're light of numbers in training for a few weeks. Stoke signed 5 players in a day a while back, does that mean they have an advantage over us? We can't know that till our business is complete.
Ok, getting ready to get absolutely pelted here but I'm having early concerns about Slaven already.
It's pre-season, I understand that and all the rest of it but the trigger was the comment that he wants to play two up top. That to me sets alarm bells ringing already. I didn't expect this from Slaven or any foreign coach. If he wants to play two up top then 3-5-2 is pretty much the only option. 4-4-2 at least a flat version will leave us compromised and will NOT work over the course of the season.
Potential signings mostly seem to be revolving around athleticism but compromising on quality on the ball Krovinovic excepted. We need a mix.
The team selection in Benidorm was woeful first half. Two in CM Harper and Livermore was shocking, nothing there at all. As for Leko, I'm not even going to mention him any further. This makes me wonder if that is in Slav's head his first choice midfield. If it is then god help us. Second half he went with three Krovinovic, Brunt, Field and we looked better which is encouraging but it was after the match he made the two up top comments. Really worrying.
I will be watching like a hawk what he does at Scunthorpe tomorrow.
I accept, it's far too early to make a proper judgement just yet, hence the "early" concerns.
Go on pelt me!
I think it's a case of him picking the formation to suit the personnel we have at present. We don't have a proper right back and only 2 fit CH's! The starting 11 needs another 4/5 new faces or it will be a tough season. The squad at present is very poor. Slav will only have needed to watch the 2 play off games to see where our weaknesses are.
Bilic is a clever man, If he plays 1 up top in pre-season the board will tell him he only needs 1 more striker to come in.
He probably wants two new strikers, so making comments about playing two up top when we only have 2 strikers could help him bring that extra player on board. Then revert to 1 up top when he has them 8)
Away from that I just read this article which I found amusing:
https://www.planetfootball.com/nostalgia/the-shithouse-files-slaven-bilic-v-france-when-he-broke-blancs-heart/ (https://www.planetfootball.com/nostalgia/the-shithouse-files-slaven-bilic-v-france-when-he-broke-blancs-heart/)
Ok, getting ready to get absolutely pelted here but I'm having early concerns about Slaven already. It's pre-season, I understand that and all the rest of it but the trigger was the comment that he wants to play two up top. That to me sets alarm bells ringing already. I didn't expect this from Slaven or any foreign coach. If he wants to play two up top then 3-5-2 is pretty much the only option. 4-4-2 at least a flat version will leave us compromised and will NOT work over the course of the season.
Potential signings mostly seem to be revolving around athleticism but compromising on quality on the ball Krovinovic excepted. We need a mix.
The team selection in Benidorm was woeful first half. Two in CM Harper and Livermore was shocking, nothing there at all. As for Leko, I'm not even going to mention him any further. This makes me wonder if that is in Slav's head his first choice midfield. If it is then god help us. Second half he went with three Krovinovic, Brunt, Field and we looked better which is encouraging but it was after the match he made the two up top comments. Really worrying.
I will be watching like a hawk what he does at Scunthorpe tomorrow.
I accept, it's far too early to make a proper judgement just yet, hence the "early" concerns.
Go on pelt me!
It is way too soon to draw any firm conclusions. Although I must admit I share some of the concerns voiced about the "2 up top" If we don't get what is behind the 2 right be that in a 4-4-2 or a 3-5-2 then we are going to struggle.I agree it was our failure to control games that was our undoing which boiled down to being out numbered / outrun in midfield. I'd be hard pushed to list 5 games where we actually controlled most of the play. The only time it looked right was on the few occasions we used Johansen as an AM making up a proper midfield three.
On reflection and I don't claim to have worked this out at the time but Moore persevering with a front 2 was part of his undoing. While the front 2 scored plenty because of the compromises made elsewhere to accomodate them we didn't control games in the way we should have done at times and that cost us any number of points.
I hope Bilic does not fall into the same trap. However he is still getting to understand the players he has and their limitations. Equally there are still a number of players to be recruited so we are not in a position to judge and in point of fact I would want to see at least half a dozen competitive fixtures before getting the burning pitchforks out (again!!) :D
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/08/02/slaven-bilic-exclusive-interview-manager-west-bromwich-albion/
What a great article, some fantastic insights into Bilic and some behind the scenes stuff at Albion. Think we have a quality man as well as manager. Please Albion don’t mess this up.
Bloody love the man.
Could listen to him talk for hours. The type of manager you would love to work for.
I'm going to wait until the window closes to elaborate but I'm having serious concerns over Bilic / Albion and certain situations.
I understand we are still at the stage where Slaven is king, we trust blindly and all that but I'm far from convinced at present.
More once the window closes.
I'm going to wait until the window closes to elaborate but I'm having serious concerns over Bilic / Albion and certain situations.
I understand we are still at the stage where Slaven is king, we trust blindly and all that but I'm far from convinced at present.
More once the window closes.
After years of tedium and boredom i feel like an Albion fan again. We have the most ambitious, passionate, charismatic and extrovert manager since Ron Atkinson.
We had lost our identity. Wolves of all clubs had taken our great entertainers title from us.
Lets get it back big time.
Genuinely thrilled and excited.
COYB.
After years of tedium and boredom i feel like an Albion fan again. We have the most ambitious, passionate, charismatic and extrovert manager since Ron Atkinson.
We had lost our identity. Wolves of all clubs had taken our great entertainers title from us.
Lets get it back big time.
Genuinely thrilled and excited.
COYB.
I'm going to wait until the window closes to elaborate but I'm having serious concerns over Bilic / Albion and certain situations.
I understand we are still at the stage where Slaven is king, we trust blindly and all that but I'm far from convinced at present.
More once the window closes.
Any thoughts on why Slaven persisted with Burke for 90 mins last night,40 of them as our main forward,was it to give his one final chance,personally I would have pulled him off at halftime ,one of the most disinterested performances since Fabian De Fratais,Slaven knew what to expect from Millwall it was deja vu of Saturdays game but our tactics remained the same,Steele did not make a save all night we could still be playing now and wouldn't have scored.
A few posts on different threads have mentioned Zonal marking.Well said sir, can't think of a single team that excels at zonal marking. Confusing for defenders and diminishes responsibility.
I'll never understand Zonal marking for set pieces. Its rare to ever see it done well consistently. The attacking team regularly seem to get the jump on defenders and I think it diminishes responsibility on individuals. Managers do seem to have a clear preference though and persist with it if they favour it.
By all means in open play, Zonal marking is much more likely due to a formation. From an attacking set piece, zonal positioning could be the way forward too, but for defending set pieces, man to man has to be the way to go.
I'm hoping Bilic isn't stubborn with it.
Well said sir, can't think of a single team that excels at zonal marking. Confusing for defenders and diminishes responsibility.
Slaven went over the top today with the match officials and got sent off, which means he will not be in the technical area, where he needs to be, next week.The players were in the officials faces. So was he. Not a good look. We don’t need that.
The officials were very poor , but I have been to all five games and seen him trying to influence almost every single decision. Some referees will respond if properly challenged over a decision, but not many will respond favourably to having every decision questioned.
I started off the season thinking his very active touchline style would maybe get us a few extra points, now I am not so sure.
The players were in the officials faces. So was he. Not a good look. We don’t need that.
He should be setting the tone for the players. I’m all for passion but now he will be banned from the touch line.
I wouldn’t accept a player being banned for poor behaviour so I don’t accept it from the manager.
Really? Because Livermore was banned for 7 games last season for sheer stupidity.
Apologies if this has already been asked but : who was Albions last manager to get sent off? I'm struggling to come up with one.Darren Moore away at Wigan ;D
Darren Moore away at Wigan ;D
I take it Bilic can't appeal ?
7 games in.
In 6 we were behind - still unbeaten - pattern emerging?
Slaven sees how we can improve, makes appropriate changes, point or points salvaged.
BY FAR the best signing between last season & this.
Obviously he watches the game and adjusts.
A sign of a good manager who is not afraid to admit that he may have made initial mistakes.
Work in progress.
I am starting to have concerns about Austin. He has to be match fit now yet, for me, looked off the pace on Saturday.
Austin looks completely shot. Similar to Ricky Lambert who went from a goal machine to a useless OAP by the time we signed him. He still needs 4/5 games in his legs. Then we can judge just how knackered he is, but clearly he isn't a patch on Dwight Gayle. Looking like a 2004 Peugeot with 190k miles on the clock.Austin will get goals, in the first half on Saturday anyone would have struggled he is a goalscorer and needs service when he gets it just watch.
Austin will get goals, in the first half on Saturday anyone would have struggled he is a goalscorer and needs service when he gets it just watch.I'm not too sure,its been a very long time since he was a prolific goalscorer,he has had a few clear cut chances in games already and not scored Millwall cup game aside,he does try a lead the line well,but I think his legs have gone
The substitutions changed the game for me. So good to have a manager who knows how to be proactive and make a difference with their subs after years of reactive changes.Absolutely, BUT, why not give me guys who make a difference a chance for 90 mins? Not a dig but genuinely confused about this?
Absolutely, BUT, why not give me guys who make a difference a chance for 90 mins? Not a dig but genuinely confused about this?
Absolutely, BUT, why not give me guys who make a difference a chance for 90 mins? Not a dig but genuinely confused about this?As a manager, I don't think you can predict exactly who is going to be on the top of their game, who is having an off day. That's why its important to have a strong squad. You also need to be able to read a game and see where the team can improve or which opposition players are causing big problems. Billic seems to be good at spotting that.
As a manager, I don't think you can predict exactly who is going to be on the top of their game, who is having an off day. That's why its important to have a strong squad. You also need to be able to read a game and see where the team can improve or which opposition players are causing big problems. Billic seems to be good at spotting that.
As a manager, I don't think you can predict exactly who is going to be on the top of their game, who is having an off day. That's why its important to have a strong squad. You also need to be able to read a game and see where the team can improve or which opposition players are causing big problems. Billic seems to be good at spotting that.His in game management has been exemplary and as someone who was an advocate of his appointment I am more than pleased with his management to date, but taking your point on board if he picks the team based upon training and then sees players regularly doing better when given the opportunity regularly on match day, surely at some point he has to adapt to reflect this?
Wrong team first half. As soon as he brought Diangana on wide and moved Periera into the middle we looked a much better team and far better balanced.
Slav's in game management up to now has been exemplary.
he should not risk going on at the 4TH OFFICIAL. tHEY CANNNOT INFLUENCE THE REFEREE. dO WE WANT HIM SUSPENDED? tHE THREE OFFICIALS CANNOT BE SPOKEN TO NOR SHOULD THE 4TH MAN.
I remember a lot of talk from his West Ham days about a lack of discipline within the squad there but there's been absolutely no sign of that here. I could truly listen to him talk about football all day too, seems to be a proper manager with most of his changes often having the required influence on games. So far so good.And like all of us, we hopefully learn as we go along, even when we think we know/are good at stuff....that is exactly the I ever to have another look ..
I remember a lot of talk from his West Ham days about a lack of discipline within the squad there but there's been absolutely no sign of that here. I could truly listen to him talk about football all day too, seems to be a proper manager with most of his changes often having the required influence on games. So far so good.
Leeds game was in October so shouldn't have an impact. Unless they count the pre-match preparation for the couple of days beforehand.good, let the curse ruin Forest’s promotion chances.
Lamouchi only one of the managers to win all three games with other managers getting 7 points from 9 so would make him the favorite.
Leeds game was in October so shouldn't have an impact. Unless they count the pre-match preparation for the couple of days beforehand.
Lamouchi only one of the managers to win all three games with other managers getting 7 points from 9 so would make him the favorite.
Sadly as a result of the Leeds game it will not be Slav.
Why not? We dominated that game everywhere except the scoreline.
Maybe gives him a little medal to stick on his shelf, which would be nice for Slaven, but to be honest, as an Albion fan, I couldn't care less about Manager of the Month. Draws attention to him, but will it make the team perform any better? I doubt it.
I do worry a premier league job could tempt him such as Everton soon as it looks like Silva's days could be numbered........?
I would’t Worry too much - Everton fans are renowned for being delusional, they believe there are far bigger fish in the sea!?
Tactics and team selection spot on. Great decision with the full backs, correct to leave Hegazi and Brunt our of the 16. Subs at correct time and right ones. Got the players at their max as well. Remarkable how well HRK and Bartley are doing. Still early days but spot on so far. Some nice one touch football tonight as well.
Anyone worried Everton could come knocking now Silva's gone already seen him at 33/1 for the job FFS.
Hopefully Slaven will go on Facebook and take note of the ' Expert' Coaches who know it all and turn things around 8)To be fair some on there and here speak sense , nowt wrong with opinions and all coaches should have a pretty open mind if things are not working
To be fair some on there and here speak sense , nowt wrong with opinions and all coaches should have a pretty open mind if things are not working
Do we think that continually rushing Gibbs back is good?
Do we think that not leaving anybody upfield when defending a corner is a good idea?
Zonal marking, is that working?
The keeper doesn’t feel that their is competition, and he really isn’t good enough
First third of the season we were all quite impressed with how Slav was changing things up and effecting positive results ...now we feel a bit flat...yes they may get tired , but no more than others in fact e don’t play a high press so should be relatively bouncy.
I also understand that we have lost Diangana and he’d be a loss for anyone in this league, but we should have another option/formation ..
Today taking hegazi out (I wouldn’t have had him back in anyway after O’Shea’s performance) looks like realisation that we made an error....I’m fine with that
Just think we need to be a bit more....cohesive
We have been sussed out. We need reinforcements in January. Sawyers performances have dropped off a cliff.
We have been sussed out. We need reinforcements in January. Sawyers performances have dropped off a cliff.
Not going to knock the man because he has done wonders for us since he's been here but in there is the problem. Seeing us dominant the ball and opposition for majority of games so far this season, with his never say die attitude culminating in our best performance disposing of Swansea. Any fall in standards and we are on teams back me included, listening to his post match comments he was not happy with what he saw and that is refreshing as he could of praised the opposition to protect his players, he knows he's got a problem and I believe he's good enough coach to get us through this sticky patch.Agreed. It was very apparent that he was unhappy, the clear implication being that he would be taking steps to improve things, especially in defence, which is where his criticism was aimed. Whether this will be changes in personnel, changes to the zonal marking system, or both, will be very interesting to see.
Jury’s still out for me.
Top of the league, played 27, lost 2 and the jury is still out? Jesus Christ. He's done an unbelievable job so far.And currently in a run of form that would have people calling out
I’ve not slaughtered him, and I’m not writing him off, and I don’t think anything I’ve said isn’t valid.I did indeed
Zippy posted about the pre Match Charlton warm up in another threat too and I’ve no reason to dispute what he said, but it’s quite concerning how blasé we are as a team if it’s true.
I hope it works and I’ve not written him off by any means, but he’s proven / achieved nothing yet.
I did indeed
I don’t think anyone has laid in to Slav....but surely people can voice concerns?
Yesterday pre match I definitely saw Diangana pereria and Krov, on their own little triangle playing no bounce...then when you watch them stretch , they don’t look like they can be arsed......on another area of the pitch, brunt was teeing up hegazi for 35-40 yard shots at goal...
Shouldn’t all players be doing proper pre game drills?
If we praised Slav HIGHLY when his decisions were affecting matches in a good way, we should be able to speak when they are not.
And currently in a run of form that would have people calling out
Pullis
Moore
Pardew
I like Slav, but we have to be fair, no one above criticism
Bilic has been a breath of fresh air. However the points raised by Zippy and others are well founded.
For me the things we need to change are (1) zonal marking (it's just not working; we concede far too many goals from set pieces. One of the biggest criticisms of Moore was that we didn't learn from our mistakes but the same could be levelled at Bilic) (2) Not leaving anyone up the field when we defend a corner (3) having both Phillips and Periera standing together when we have a corner (sometimes it will be a good ploy but not all the time) (4) Trying to score the perfect goal by walking it in, have a shot for god's sake!
1 - I have seen a lot of bashing of 'zonal' marking on here over the last few days, some of which has been unfair (not from you Hull I must add). I saw one comment along the lines of "you always see goals let in as a result of zonal marking" well yeah, that's because it is always highlighted as being a fault of zonal marking. You never hear someone say, that's the problem with the man marking system. I haven't got the time or the will power to start recording goals conceded from corners but would hazard a guess that zonal marking isn't the problem. We conceded shed loads under Mowbray, we marked man for man. I also saw someone say that zonal marking was ok at elite level because the players are better; zonal marking actually benefits smaller teams as it means you can focus your best few defenders of the ball in the most important areas, like Guardiola's Barcelona teams for example. I guess this is just a defence of unfair zonal marking criticism. Regards whether we should change from zonal marking, everyone is right, something must change but for me it is probably a mentality/personnel thing more than a system thing.
2 - I think it is actually a better attacking ploy to have people back behind the ball because when the ball gets cleared, you can press in whatever direction the ball is cleared in, if it goes nowhere near the player up the field then they are just out of the game. You also have forward momentum when attacking the ball when it is cleared. It is very common place for teams to not leave someone up so no problem with this from me. I'll add this in here too as I have seen it elsewhere but I wonder how many times in a season a side that covers both posts have someone on the post saving a goal, not many I'd suggest whereas the additional men can help stop a short corner, cover the edge of the box or help mark but you wouldn't necessarily point out the positive impact of this. Not having men on the post also helps you to attack a ball quicker when cleared and also clear out of the box to squeeze the space for the second phase and the ball back in, it certainly has its plus points.
3 - I agree on this on, not a fan. I understand the logic for free kicks in and around the box as it will influence a defence dropping deep or pushing up depending on whether it is an in or out-swinger but corners isn't the same, only really matters to the keeper.
4 - Amen.
You may well be right about the amount of goals we concede from set pieces being more of a mentality thing rather than because of zonal marking.And
For me I think having a man staying up near the halfway line when we are defending corners means that the opposition has to leave 2 playes back to stop any break away. Also if we have a man up the pitch it means they have a chance of picking up any clearance, by not having anyone up we are giving the ball back. There have been plenty of times this season when we have cleared a corner to no one and the ball has come straight back meaning we still have to defend.
For me do I think things are perfect? Far from it. Do I think slav is the right man for the job definitely. Do I think if I question things on this form in particular that I will be shouted down.... 100% yes.
Slav is the man I want in charge but that doesn’t make him immune to criticism or mistakes, what frustrates me is the way any criticism is immediately regarded as ‘your moaning you should be at the Wo1ve5’ responses.
Overall nobody can doubt what Slav has done, fantastic job so far to put us in the position we are in, however and judging by what I have seen and heard of the man he would be the first to admit their have been mistakes and they need putting right.
In Slav I 100% trust but in the ‘happy clapper, don’t dare criticise anything brigade’ then I’m not interested.
We will go up, Slav will get it right but there will be mistakes and he will be the first to say that I’m sure.
And
The attacking team can throw all their defenders in to our box....even if we get 5he ball away from the initial corner, they are then still up for the second wave .
We should leave 2 up Phillips and Diangana .....it would really take the pressure off our defence
But what else can he do really?! There's a couple of arguments like Austin>Zohore & why change shape after 90 seconds but he can't help the injuries to Diangana, Gibbs and Ferguson.We don't have to leave huge gaps between the CB's and full backs , they are miles away from the first whistle and its a regular thing .For Johnstone's faults we are exposed game after game , too weak and too easy to score against . Poor goals mostly too.
Some of the existing squad was awful quite frankly. Townsend is woeful.
But what else can he do really?! There's a couple of arguments like Austin>Zohore & why change shape after 90 seconds but he can't help the injuries to Diangana, Gibbs and Ferguson.
Some of the existing squad was awful quite frankly. Townsend is woeful.
Never been fully sold on Bilic , said that a few months back too .
I didn't and still don't think theres enough goals in our front three and midfield base to justify the 4 2 3 1 with a limited forward , it was always going to be a case of Phillips vanishing , Pereira doesn't have a record of scoring and Diang was a bit unknown .
Lone forward we are left with a slow Austin , Zohare doesn't look up to it and H.R.K is H.R.K even in a better bit of form.
Add that to full backs out of position and weak defending of set pieces it looks like Bilic has a half built side despite the good start.
Not convinced.
I think Slav is getting a bit of unjust stick. I think we've overachieved massively especially when you look at the strikers at our disposal. We need to back him in this window.Exactly , Bilic bases his teams around attacking midfielders and thats where he goes wrong .
I think Slav is getting a bit of unjust stick. I think we've overachieved massively especially when you look at the strikers at our disposal. We need to back him in this window.Slaven better show his ruthless side and drop the likes of Saywers, Phillips and Livermore.
He can freshen it up. He is playing the same players the same way despite it not working.
Best performance since the Swansea game (our most complete one of the season) was charlton in the cup. Livermore needs dropping both barry and harper played well that game. Phillip's off form why not try brunt or give Edward's a run
Really good point, i enjoyed that game. It was against a weakened team though so needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. I'd say Barry deserves a chance in place of Livermore and Austin deserves to start.Another thing with how Bilic plays , its so open Barry looked like he had concrete in his boots in his last starts .
Would still far rather a manager like Billic than, for example, a Michael ONeill. I doubt O'Neill knows how to play any other way than compact defence in numbers and hope for a counter. Whereas I think Billic's instinct is to play attacking football and to choose flair players. Doesn't mean he won't make the odd mistake like choosing Zohore rather thanOdd mistake?
replacing Diangana with a wide player (Edwards).
Right then
I’m not sold on him.....not anti him, but like on any subject I try and be fair
The keeper is atrocious ....how can billic and the management team not see that ?
O’Shea ...came on when Bartley got injured(because Hegazi had made an issue) he played well, his reward was bombed out the squad next match, hegazi started
Barnsley away....that day we tried Krov, pereira Barry and sawyers out wide at different stages during the game.....he left Edwards and Phillips as unused subs
Today....after setting up 451 and you would assume that we trained mainly with this all week, the left winger goes off after a couple of mins
Do you
A) replace like for like because you have a fast left winger available
B) send on a striker who despite getting v lucky and scoring twice looks woefully short and scared off the ball?
If I thought about it I could write many many more.....he worries me.
There have been a few notable strange choices and decisions in recent weeks , another you could point to is Austin who despite scoring some important goals now appears to be behind a bloke who couldn’t get on the bench a few weeks ago.Yep
There have been a few notable strange choices and decisions in recent weeks , another you could point to is Austin who despite scoring some important goals now appears to be behind a bloke who couldn’t get on the bench a few weeks ago.
Yep
There is defiantly a weird ranking system going on
There are many saying that we are desperate for “fresh faces†or “new signingsâ€....maybe we should get a couple of deals done but , sometimes the answer is in front of your nose
Bond
Ferguson
Edwards
Krovinovic
O’Shea
Harper
All of which could and Should have been more involved over the festive period and/or not messed around for no good reason
This is spot on especially in Harpers case. Both livermore and Sawyers are beyond embarrassing at the moment.Thank you sir
Thank you sir
Bond
Furlong. Semi. O’Shea. Ferguson
ORSIC. Harper. Krovinovic. Edwards
Pereira
H.r.k
Not too bad a line up?
Theres enough under belly there to make Mowbray have a fitOpinions
That midfield is awful.
Thank you sir
Bond
Furlong. Semi. O’Shea. Ferguson
ORSIC. Harper. Krovinovic. Edwards
Pereira
H.r.k
Not too bad a line up?
I think we need a change in system, if Diangana isn't playing / isn't fit enough.
Sawyers - Livermore - Krovinovic
Perreira - Striker - Phillips / Edwards
4-3-3 might be the way forward.
Important few days for Bilic now. He has clearly stated we need players, so it’s over to the club now and whether they back him to get the job over the line or leave him to turn this rubbish around.
I'm not sure there's muc Bilic can do at the moment. Missing Gibbs\Ferguson and Diangana is causing us all sorts of problems down our left hand side. Having to rely on Zohore\HRK\Austin as the front line isn't helping at all, we rely on the midfield getting forward to score gals. When Diangana plays it occupies the other team giving him, Pererira and Phillips more space.
Our issue is the players out injured and a weak front line. Need to get the players back fit and sign a forward or two.
its not that desperate we need Harper yet. Hes played twice in the cups and looked poor in both so hes not exactly pulling trees either.
Billic got it oh so wrong last night and his fault we lost the game IMO. Everybody makes mistakes so we need to put it right.
I just cannot believe his thoughts behind putting in Hegazi in for Ajayi and not putting Edwards on in a straight swap and put Zohore on instead.
Hegazi & Zohore's performance were the worst i have seen in a long time last night.
I tend to agree with this aside from the shout on Hegazi.
I thought Hegazi was a nailed on giving our deficiencies in dealing with crosses into the box - alongside Bartley that should be meat and drink. Little did we know he would play like he was
I am with you all day on the Zohore shout - it has came from nowhere and seemed like someone clutching at straws. Given we would have prepared to play with a winger, to lose one in the first minute & then not replace him with a like for like replacement was baffling.
It meant we were pedestrian and one paced. Zohore, HRK, Austin, Brunt, Livermore & Sawyers are all much of a much-ness. No ability to run at their opponents and take a man on. The variety which made us so exciting has vanished.
I think a core part of the problem is we have lost the quick one-touch football we were playing earlier in the season. There were games where we grabbed control of the midfield and just drove forward at the opposition without losing momentum. A good example was Leeds away (ironically although we were beaten). The players all looked comfortable passing it around, but not dropping the tempo and waiting for the opposition defence to re-group, which is what was happening all of last night's game.
Last night we just knocked it around slowly in front of the Stoke defence and then launched lots of long high crosses into the Stoke box, 95% of which were comfortably dealt with by Butland and their defenders. There was one glimpse late on where Pereira combined with Livermore and broke deep into the Stoke penalty box, that was our most dangerous attack.
But if you look at the team who were dominating the midfield earlier in the season, the players are still there, apart from Diangana and Gibbs. Billic has to re-discover that formula with those players. Maybe players like Sawyers just need a breather. Maybe Diangana and Gibbs were crucial to it, in which case we must get squad reinforcements who can slot in. At the same time we definitely need a goalscoring striker, as Zohore and HRK are both limited players.
Is it to early to sack him?
Never changes tactics.
Continually picks certain players regardless of form.
This is worse than some of the rubbish served by pulis and big Dave.
For me I'd do it now.
I'd sack him.Theres a lot of things starting to mirror his end at West Ham
Exactly the same as what happened at West ham and couldn't and didn't change enough tactically.
This squad is nowhere near as good as a lot of you think.
Very little depth after the first XI. With injuries and tiredness our form was always going to be unsustainable. Yes the last 7 games havent been good enough but people need to get off their high horses and realise that this is Bilic's first season and comes after a summer of upheaval.
He’ll get the full season - his name means he won’t be sacked.
There are serious questions to be answered though - this is nowhere near good enough
It seems to be the only changes he is intent on making are swapping around the bleedin’ full backs. That really is not helping a side whose ability to defend looks shot
I'm not sure, the board sacked Moore who was a media darling and who was sitting in the play-offs, many of our fans at the time still supported him too. I think it's part of Chinese culture, they're ruthless and don't care what others think so it wouldn't surprise me if he was given the boot.
This squad is nowhere near as good as a lot of you think.
Very little depth after the first XI. With injuries and tiredness our form was always going to be unsustainable. Yes the last 7 games havent been good enough but people need to get off their high horses and realise that this is Bilic's first season and comes after a summer of upheaval.
Take a bow. A rare bit of sanity on here. Our team with the current injuries is rubbish. Bilic worked a miracle to get us top in the first place.
Take a bow. A rare bit of sanity on here. Our team with the current injuries is rubbish. Bilic worked a miracle to get us top in the first place.
Luton, Millwall, Reading. Three games from the sack in my opinion. Needs to get a couple of wins or i think they’ll pull the trigger.
Take a bow. A rare bit of sanity on here. Our team with the current injuries is rubbish. Bilic worked a miracle to get us top in the first place.Can’t agree
There is a complete lack of fight in the team and that stems from the manager. Why do the opposition always want it more than us? Organise your defence. And be ruthless is attack.
Amazing when you look at Bilic and his number 2
Unbelievable that folk are suggesting that Bilic be sacked. We’re having a poor run but this is a bloody tough league and every side has one or more bad runs over 46 games. We have no divine right to rock up and just get 3 points.
We’ve missed Diangana and Gibbs massively. We’re missing half our teeth. Opposition are no longer scared of us. With Diangana missing they can focus on snuffing out Pereira. With them both playing there are two threads to snuff out and they can’t cope. We urgently need an injection of fresh blood before the window closes.
The defence is poor and keeps making stupid errors, just like we did under DM last season. Made worse this year by zonal marking.
But let’s take stock. We are in the top 2 with 17 games to go and it’s totally in our hands. New players are coming in this week. Let’s get behind the team and get over the line. There will be ups and downs. Leeds, Forest, Brentford and Fulham will make it very hard for us, but if we turn on Bilic then we deserve what we get.
We have quality youth players refusing to sign new contracts, from the last few games it looks like he has lost the dressing room as well,especially from his comments to the press last night about what was said in the dressing room. His failure to mix things up tactically are a really worry.
Moore was being hounded out of the club by many on here long before his disastrous run and people refused to accept the loss of Barnes and injuries he had to deal with as an excuse. So why should they be an excuse for Billic?
I refute these suggestions we have a mediocre squad for the Championship. We've spent a lot of money compared to the likes of Cardiff. Bilic is not picking the right players to start, for instance Bond, Austin and now a massive case can be made for Brunt and Barry. There looks to little or no defensive organisation on the training ground. It is a given we will concede in a league match.
Bond was playing for a league one side as recently as 2018
Austin gets exhausted after a mild sprint
Brunt is 35..and gets exhausted after a mild sprint
Barry is 38...and gets exhausted after a mild sprint
We also have the likes of Scunthorpe legend Conor Towsend and Kenneth Zohore waiting in the wings.
Doesn't exactly scream promotion does it.
Edit - And that's not even mentioning Hal Robson Kanu...
cannot believe the S word is even being used.
i think he has done a terrific job with the squad he has. Goals win games and we have the worst strike force in the top 6. 23 games-ish was perfect and some of that work has been thrown away now but i do feel that the quality of our strike force is beginning to tell.
HRK & Zohore with Austin as a strike force and still be in the top 2.
i honestly believe that is our biggest problem and we need a proven goal scorer at this level in before the window shuts.
if we dont, we will not finish top 2.
we need to back Slaven.
I refute these suggestions we have a mediocre squad for the Championship. We've spent a lot of money compared to the likes of Cardiff. Bilic is not picking the right players to start, for instance Bond, Austin and now a massive case can be made for Brunt and Barry. There looks to little or no defensive organisation on the training ground. It is a given we will concede in a league match.This is key. Aside from the refusal to drop players, that under-perform week in week out; Johnstone, Livermore, Sawyers, Phillips, HRK, whoever plays we are getting worse week on week and making more and more basic mistakes. This says to me that the training is poor, motivation is shot and so confidence is non existent.
This is exactly correct. People seem to be forgetting just how poor HRK is because he had a little purple patch. Austin, aside from fitness, you can make a case for but we are clearly very poor up front. What is Bilic supposed to do? Try Phillips again up front on his own? If you've got such a poor strike force you need an amazing midfield and for them to create and sharet he goals - that's what we did until we hit injuries and suspensions.
If too many fans blame Julian Dicks they will be calling him to be sacked. " Dicks Out " !!!!made me laugh that did, DICKS OUT
exactly, but so many on here and elsewhere dont see it.
people slag livermore or sawyers off instead. the movement last night was like watching a team of 75 year olds play. imagine being in that midfield role with the options you have?
HRK will always put in 100% but you cant have him being first or second choice in a team trying to win promotion. he has to be 3rd choice at best. Austin should be 2nd and Zohore should be no where near the club.
it stuck out like a sore thumb last night we have nothing upfront. Zohore was none existent. none of this is bilic fault.
he needs to be backed and get a proven striker in at this level like we should have done in the summer. Diangana and Perreria playing constantly in the first half of the season reduced how visible the striking situation was.
If Bilic had Darren Moores striking options last season we would win the league in march.
I quite agree, the strikeforce is not good enough for a side with promotion aspirations. I will say though that it was apparent to me about 6 league games ago that HRK was suffering a dip and back to his non-threatening self. I believe in the 2 FA Cup games Austin played and hey presto we won both 0-1. HRK should have been dropped at the turn of the year. This useless idea of bringing Austin on after 70 mins is TOO LATE, the pattern of games are set by this point. Even the last league game we won (2-3 at Blues), Austin rescued us from 2-1 down late on with 2 great strikes.
There is no movement up front when HRK is up front on his own. The opposition's defence play 10 yards up the field. Time for Bilic to drop HRK.
exactly, but so many on here and elsewhere dont see it.I'm far from someone who is at the point of wanting to sack Bilic, but the bit I have highlighted is utter rubbish. Do you really think that Bilic had nothing to do with signing Zohore, nothing to do with signing Austin, nothing to do with giving HRK an extended contract? He has to take his share of responsibility, even if others have been equally culpable.
people slag livermore or sawyers off instead. the movement last night was like watching a team of 75 year olds play. imagine being in that midfield role with the options you have?
HRK will always put in 100% but you cant have him being first or second choice in a team trying to win promotion. he has to be 3rd choice at best. Austin should be 2nd and Zohore should be no where near the club.
it stuck out like a sore thumb last night we have nothing upfront. Zohore was none existent. none of this is bilic fault.
he needs to be backed and get a proven striker in at this level like we should have done in the summer. Diangana and Perreria playing constantly in the first half of the season reduced how visible the striking situation was.
If Bilic had Darren Moores striking options last season we would win the league in march.
I'm far from someone who is at the point of wanting to sack Bilic, but the bit I have highlighted is utter rubbish. Do you really think that Bilic had nothing to do with signing Zohore, nothing to do with signing Austin, nothing to do with giving HRK an extended contract? He has to take his share of responsibility, even if others have been equally culpable.
Only if the option was Zohore or nowt!! It's been evident that he's never really trusted him from the get go or he would have had an extended run, and indeed at one point he was completely bombed out of the squad. If Robinson is fit i expect him to be bombed out again, lets hope the £ figures mentioned for him were very much performance related.Of course the option wasn't Zohore or nowt. Bilic would have signed it off, so he has to accept some responsibility.
Austin yes, it is obvious that he likes Charlie but on closer assessment of his pace and fitness wants to play him as an impact sub - a role in which he has been tremendous at times.
HRK deserved his year extension, and he had a real purple patch earlier in the year but like other players his form has dipped back to more realistic levels.
I am not saying we should not be questioning some of Billic's decisions, but there is no way he would be happy with the striking options he has at his disposal and this has been confirmed by the first player through the door being a forward with a decent scoring record in the division.
people slag livermore or sawyers off instead. the movement last night was like watching a team of 75 year olds play. imagine being in that midfield role with the options you have?
Only if the option was Zohore or nowt!! It's been evident that he's never really trusted him from the get go or he would have had an extended run, and indeed at one point he was completely bombed out of the squad. If Robinson is fit i expect him to be bombed out again, lets hope the £ figures mentioned for him were very much performance related.He definitely sanctioned Barry's re-signing but doesn't pick him either, despite Livermore and Sawyers no longer working. Al-Habsi is another who came in on his watch but still Johnstone keeps getting picked.
Austin yes, it is obvious that he likes Charlie but on closer assessment of his pace and fitness wants to play him as an impact sub - a role in which he has been tremendous at times.
HRK deserved his year extension, and he had a real purple patch earlier in the year but like other players his form has dipped back to more realistic levels.
I am not saying we should not be questioning some of Billic's decisions, but there is no way he would be happy with the striking options he has at his disposal and this has been confirmed by the first player through the door being a forward with a decent scoring record in the division.
Surely too early to be talking change but ...Bilic looks beat right now , out of ideas even .Ok injuries but why no Tulloch or Willock on the bench last night ? Lot of silly mistakes on repeat right now , add that to conceding bad goals all season . Needs something to grind out a few results.
What would Tulloch or Willock have done differently though? He's already copped flack for putting Ferguson back in. He can also see those players in training and if he considers them not good enough what point is there in sticking him on the bench. To us they're practically unknowns but he sees them every day.Thought O'Shea was alright other than the bad pass , I meant Tulloch or Willock on the bench to be clear.
He did play O'Shea and that didn't work out. He also put HRK back in and we got an HRK special performance.
Its harsh to be negative about Slaven when he has key players missing. If we were in this position and Grady & Periera had been ever present then I would be concerned. Also he wanted more players across the line in the summer but that didn't happen, so he deserves the time and patience to see that through. I don't think he looks beat, I think he looks frustrated because he knows what he wants and it isn't happening on the pitch. He may sort that out in this transfer window.Agree with a lot of that but on the other hand we've conceded bad goals all season . Thats a fact too.
Whilst I am concerned about our current form, all I need to do is think about the Pulis era and how we have subsequently changed style wise. We are in a bad patch but we will come out of it I am sure, and to all of you who think we need to get rid of SB, who do you have in mind to replace him? [a rhetorical question that does not need an answer].
Thought O'Shea was alright other than the bad pass , I meant Tulloch or Willock on the bench to be clear.
Agree with a lot of that but on the other hand we've conceded bad goals all season . Thats a fact too.
We had the same problems with conceding goals last season aswell. So it isn’t just a Bilic thing . Facts are Bartley Hegazi and Ajei aren’t good enough , the amount of clean sheets kept make this a fact . The goal keeper isn’t good enough either
Bond was playing for a league one side as recently as 2018
Austin gets exhausted after a mild sprint
Brunt is 35..and gets exhausted after a mild sprint
Barry is 38...and gets exhausted after a mild sprint
We also have the likes of Scunthorpe legend Conor Towsend and Kenneth Zohore waiting in the wings.
Doesn't exactly scream promotion does it.
Edit - And that's not even mentioning Hal Robson Kanu...
My motherDoes your mother command her area?
Furlong. Semi. Bartley/O’Shea. Gibbs
Phillips. Harper. Pereira Krov Diangana
HRK / Austin
More than enough to win this league
My mother
Furlong. Semi. Bartley/O’Shea. Gibbs
Phillips. Harper. Pereira Krov Diangana
HRK / Austin
More than enough to win this league
I'm not even going to make the joke about her box.Feel free ....Judging by your posts your desperate for some humour 😀
Feel free ....Judging by your posts your desperate for some humour 😀
If my moms plays vs Luton I’d be more confident of a clean sheet (o,er) than Johnstone
I don't know whether to mount case for the defence or the prosecution here. On the one hand the calls for a change are way too early. Some posters seem to think that all our players are rubbish but also seem to hold the view that Bilic is incompetent it is unlikely that is true of a team that is even in the play-off spots.
My view is that this is one of the better squads in the division and were it not to make any sort of challenge for a promotion you could ask a legitimate question of the coach. I am not sure when a team's back up choice at left back became the litmus test of squad quality but from an earlier post Townsend seemed to be the living proof that the squad was somehow inadequate. The 2nd choice left backs of Championship clubs are a combination of callow youths gnarled old veterans and players who are barely household names in their own household and as such I wouldn't use ours as exhibit a in Bilic's defence.
Yet here we are in what can only be described as a slump in form. I can be sanguine and suggest that maybe the team ran a little hot across the first half of the season (as suggested by the evil ex-g numbers) and what we are currently experiencing is a regression to the mean.
If I were to look at Bilic's career maybe I could point out his time at West Ham where his teams ran hot for periods and then regressed quite sharply at some point and critically he was unable to arrest the slide. His sides have always given up soft goals and he is in the school of coaches that is we will score 1 more than you.
Maybe he doesn't have a plan "b" well I am going to let you into a secret most coaches don't their fundamental approach does not vary yes they tweak things to the extent the group of players they have allows them to but few will go through a 180 degree about face. Klopp to Pulis all have a basic style sometimes it evolves but it generally succeeds or fails because the squad they have marries up to that style template and critically the players buy into it which is the man management part of the job.
All coaches have their limitations and modern football seems to decree that Head Coaches have a limited shelf life. Yet there is value to sticking with a coach through a downswing something nobody does anymore. This is a hill I am prepared to die on Bilic can turn this around, I don't agree with every team selection I don't get everything he does but overall I would still prefer to have him in charge than not.
My mother
Furlong. Semi. Bartley/O’Shea. Gibbs
Phillips. Harper. Pereira Krov Diangana
HRK / Austin
More than enough to win this league
That midfield won't win a single tackle all game. You've still got Bartley in there, or if not the inexperienced O'Shea.
And Austin whose legs are going and HRK is, well, HRK.
.......if my moms plays vs Luton I’d be more confident of a clean sheet (o,er) than Johnstone
I don’t want perfect, perfect goes to bigger clubs, I accept mistakes......but to continually overlook obvious issues and to persevere regardless...is negligent?
Absolutely nailed it. Bilic is a breath of fresh air and we must back him. No coach is perfect. No coach doesn’t make mistakes. If he was perfect then he wouldn’t be managing us!
We are second in the table with 17 games left. The top two go up. That’s stating the obvious but many posters on SM seem to be forgetting it! We have strengthened the squad this week and may well strengthen further before tomorrow night. We are in a great position with Pereira and Diangana about to return.
That midfield won't win a single tackle all game. You've still got Bartley in there, or if not the inexperienced O'Shea.I 5hink Bartley has been ok until hegazi moved him, O’Shea has also been good
And Austin whose legs are going and HRK is, well, HRK.
We'll see how good a manager he is in the next two or three games.
Can he survive?
Again we'll see over the next few weeks
For me he could start by putting Ajai back on the right hand side and Bartley back on the left.
He has to move Johnstone out of the firing line.
Furlong back at right back and Townsend back at left.
Then he has enough new options in front of those with the new arrivals to liven it up a bit
Must win today if not I can see the season ending up like that one when Buckley was in charge when at one point we were second in the league and ended up mid table still have nightmares about that.Buckley, he ain't!
Buckley, he ain't!Yes - I have had a few doubts recently, and put them on here, but if they won't play for him and the club after that they never will.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11930215/bilic-we-were-terrific
Is this inspirational enough for the doubters?
It was embarrassing that any fan would even have mentioned sacking him. Proper over the top pant wetting. Doing and done a great job.
Big shout out to Bilic today, cause we have had many a manager where going to Millwall in terrible conditions would've meant only one thing, a loss. But we played the conditions well and the team stood up to the test they had.first job is get promoted then we will worry about prem :P
I said on a separate thread if we didn't sign anyone we'd struggle for playoffs but 2 or 3 signings and I had us top two. I stand by that, I think Bilic has signed players in the right positions and although I still doubt the signings we've made will be any good in PL, I think they'll get us up.
Big shout out to Bilic today, cause we have had many a manager where going to Millwall in terrible conditions would've meant only one thing, a loss. But we played the conditions well and the team stood up to the test they had.
I said on a separate thread if we didn't sign anyone we'd struggle for playoffs but 2 or 3 signings and I had us top two. I stand by that, I think Bilic has signed players in the right positions and although I still doubt the signings we've made will be any good in PL, I think they'll get us up.
Big shout out to Bilic today, cause we have had many a manager where going to Millwall in terrible conditions would've meant only one thing, a loss. But we played the conditions well and the team stood up to the test they had.
I said on a separate thread if we didn't sign anyone we'd struggle for playoffs but 2 or 3 signings and I had us top two. I stand by that, I think Bilic has signed players in the right positions and although I still doubt the signings we've made will be any good in PL, I think they'll get us up.
Pleased for him but one win against a side that didn’t turn up doesn’t answer all the questions.
Bond
Harper
Hegazi
Austin
Grozicki
Phillips
Furlong
That bench would finish in the play offs with a few average players around it. Bilic needs to prove himself now over 14 games, not one.
They're clearly not meant to.
Robinson is going back to Sheffield at the end of the season. Wilder has said that he's not here for a move, he's here to gain/maintain sharpness.
Grosicki is an 18 month contract. He'll do his job to get us up, then will be a bench option in the prem.
Peltier's contract is simply until the end of the season (unless I read it wrong), so I fully expect him to see that out, make a few cameo appearances when needed, then move on.
Its kind of a nice arrangement for both eventualities, or promotion or staying where we are.
Hasn’t he proved himself over 31 games so far?
Hasn’t he proved himself over 31 games so far?
Why are some people on here having a go at SB?He deserved criticism, during the bad run, but he has addressed that now with a scrappy home win and an away masterclass. For me he has answered the questions that were rightly being thrown at him and we can now, collectively, kick on for the last 14 league games and enjoy whatever comes of the cup run.
Do some expect perfection over a season?
He's only lost 4/31 and got us into 5th round!
Were top of the league 4 points clear with 14 league matches to go.
We all would have been happy with this at the beginning of this season.
Brilliant work by all at WBA.
Why are some people on here having a go at SB?
Do some expect perfection over a season?
He's only lost 4/31 and got us into 5th round!
Were top of the league 4 points clear with 14 league matches to go.
We all would have been happy with this at the beginning of this season.
Brilliant work by all at WBA.
It was embarrassing that any fan would even have mentioned sacking him. Proper over the top pant wetting. Doing and done a great job.
A third of those games, show he has no plan b when key players are out injured.
We had a blip...we are top of the league with a worse squad than the one we had last season. I questioned his team selection against Luton and Millwall and we won both games comfortably. I do not think he deserves too much questioning currently. When we appointed Slav, did anyone really think we would be in this position after 31 games? I was hopeful of the play offs, nothing more.
I think it’s fair for us to ask questions during our slump and also during the last two games.
And if you engaged Slav in conversation about this he would probably welcome it and enjoy it.
But I am glad he is our head coach, I think we’ve made some good additions in the window and we’re back on track to make the top two.
A lot of work still to be done though.
You think our squad is worse than last season? Wow.
I just hope those who were calling for his head two weeks ago have learned from their foolishness.Those actually calling for his head were very much the minority. Many more were calling for a change in system, which we have now got and viola.
Those actually calling for his head were very much the minority. Many more were calling for a change in system, which we have now got and viola.I see what you did there. Very clever. Slaven orchestrated the changes and now we are much improved.
I see what you did there. Very clever. Slaven orchestrated the changes and now we are much improved.Much as I'd love to blow my own trumpet, you've got me, French was never my strong point. :D
Much as I'd love to blow my own trumpet, you've got me, French was never my strong point. :D
Much as I'd love to blow my own trumpet, you've got me, French was never my strong point. :DI could tell because the word is actually Voila not Viola
I could tell because the word is actually Voila not Viola
I just hope those who were calling for his head two weeks ago have learned from their foolishness.
Not at all. Questions should of been asked due to a poor run of form. What we have learnt he is unable to adapt his style of play (Pulis ball for a few games?) when key players are out. Playing this system in the prem is going to require a massive overhaul to our squad as its clear he wont/cant play any other style which leaves us vulnerable to conceding every game and means we rely on pinning teams back with attacking flair. Who in the prem is going to be looking at Kanu, Kos, Phillips, Robinson, Austin with fear? Even Perira is untested at that level.We've won 3 on the trot are now 6 points clear at the top of the league, but you seem unhappy with Billic's game management. I don't know what you want. Billic has an attacking style, others like Mourinho, Pulis favour a more defensive style. I know which I prefer watching.
Don't get me wrong, I'm very much enjoying the style of play and winning games, but some big questions have been answered over his inability to change our style of play.
Not at all. Questions should of been asked due to a poor run of form. What we have learnt he is unable to adapt his style of play (Pulis ball for a few games?) when key players are out. Playing this system in the prem is going to require a massive overhaul to our squad as its clear he wont/cant play any other style which leaves us vulnerable to conceding every game and means we rely on pinning teams back with attacking flair. Who in the prem is going to be looking at Kanu, Kos, Phillips, Robinson, Austin with fear? Even Perira is untested at that level.
Don't get me wrong, I'm very much enjoying the style of play and winning games, but some big questions have been answered over his inability to change our style of play.
Our upturn in form shows how we were too reliant on Diangana. When he was out the cutting edge was gone. Robinson and Grosicki have addressed this. Bilic has to be given credit for identifying this and doing something about it. We really need Gibbs though for the remainder of the season. He will make a big difference.
"Fans" who have criticised Slaven this season need a head wobble. He's been outstanding. His signings and coaching have resulted in us playing coherent quality football. We went on a mentally amazing good run, then suffered with injuries, luck and the number of games over the New Year, now were picking up again. Top of the league, been fantastic so far. The posts from a couple of weeks back on him are nothing short than pant wetting and embarrassing. Sort of stuff I'd expect from teenagers addicted to their playstation.Fans who use the term “head wobble†need to respect the thoughts of others with more dignity and maturity.
Fans who use the term “head wobble†need to respect the thoughts of others with more dignity and maturity.
No the people who need the head wobble know nothing about football. Probably the same people saying it was a joke to sack Moore. Look where we are now?
There’s nothing wrong with opinions, but just because people have differing ones doesn’t mean we have to start name calling...throwing insults and speakeking louder does not make people correct.
No the people who need the head wobble know nothing about football. Probably the same people saying it was a joke to sack Moore. Look where we are now?
No the people who need the head wobble know nothing about football. Probably the same people saying it was a joke to sack Moore. Look where we are now?
He's lost 4 games all season mate,and into the 5 th round,what more do you want?
Nobody above criticism and billic took what he deserved during our blip. However he has recruited well the football we play is outrageous at times. He also turned a blip round sign of a good manager. Can he do the same in the next tier up I for one am interested to see.
If we get promoted we probably need to extend his contract he only has a 2 year deal doesnt he?
He's lost 4 games all season mate,and into the 5 th round,what more do you want?
Absolutely this. Next season will be very interesting.
Personally I think he will get us promoted now he has turned this blip around and made some decent signings.
BUT I'm worried these players will not cope in the prem with this system and he has not shown any inclination to change the system. Which cost him his job a West Ham.
Perfectly sums up how insane it is for any of our fans to be pointing any criticism at him. Just look back at this thread from a couple of week pre Luton. It’s embarrassing.There is a clear difference between pointing criticism and raising fair points.
"Fans" who have criticised Slaven this season need a head wobble. He's been outstanding. His signings and coaching have resulted in us playing coherent quality football. We went on a mentally amazing good run, then suffered with injuries, luck and the number of games over the New Year, now were picking up again. Top of the league, been fantastic so far. The posts from a couple of weeks back on him are nothing short than pant wetting and embarrassing. Sort of stuff I'd expect from teenagers addicted to their playstation.
We went 7 games without a league win, if that doesn't merit criticism I don't know what does. We weren't injury ravaged, we didn't have a really tough run of games. We finally won playing at home to the worst team in the league after a good transfer window. Bilic has obviously done a great job this season but noone is above criticism.
But criticism is only due when there is negligence, making the odd team selection error should be understood because we all make mistakes don't we? Bilic has made far more great team call than selection errors, if indeed they were errors, as the thing we never really know is the stuff behind the scenes, minor illness, family upsets, training ground arguments,etc, why should we, team selection including substitutions, is the managers responsibility, its only revealed one hour before kick off for several obvious reasons.Does this mean, in your eyes, he has a job for life?
Whilst its okay to suggest we should play an alternative player, its foolish to criticise player selection and team performance levels using phrases like 'lost the dressing room" and suggesting Bilic's removal.
Lets not beat about the bush, Bilic is the best manager we have had since Hodgson, he is not perfect (neither is Hodgson who was often criticised for his pragmatism), we should be backing him 100% because he is a breath of fresh air and when we criticise him, show some respect for what he has done for us delivering an entertaining and attacking team that on the whole, are a joy to watch.
You don't think our downturn in form coincided with losing Diangana and Gibbs for extended periods?Of course it did mate but that wouldn't have made any difference had the winless run continued.
You don't think our downturn in form coincided with losing Diangana and Gibbs for extended periods?
I didn't say he was beyond criticism, I said he should not be criticised unless his performance as a manager was negligent, clearly, too any fair minded person, it wasn't.So, if a manager loses 20 games in a row but, in your mind is not negligent during that time, but merely a victim of circumstance, he should just be allowed to continue without being criticised?
What I like about Bilic is that he reacts to how the game is going and makes changes - often they work but at least he has ideas.Pep, Mourinho,Klopp.....all still get criticism from time to time
We've had a coach whose Neolithic tactics produced a very defensive game which was unattractive to those watching and to those thinking about playing for the club. We've had a coach who seemed paralysed by indecision and who only made substitutions upon an injury or too late to have an effect. In my opinion Bilic suffers from neither of those faults and I think he should be allowed to get on with it.
For me, this run of bad form we had was down to a few things. The fixture congestion over Christmas and the tiredness, the injuries and suspensions and the lack of a quality forward.
When you think back to the black days of Pulis what Slav has done is, for me, nothing short of miraculous. Would anyone have dared dream of being top of the league and six points clear this time last year? And playing some really exciting stuff?
The bloke has, quite simply, repaired my love for all things Baggies!
What I like about Bilic is that he reacts to how the game is going and makes changes - often they work but at least he has ideas.
We've had a coach whose Neolithic tactics produced a very defensive game which was unattractive to those watching and to those thinking about playing for the club. We've had a coach who seemed paralysed by indecision and who only made substitutions upon an injury or too late to have an effect. In my opinion Bilic suffers from neither of those faults and I think he should be allowed to get on with it.
Bilic needs to sort out that defence and its time changes are made keeper who is rooted to the spot on every cross needs a rollicking or dropping, Bartley is having a mare every game of late.
Dropping for who? Please don't suggest bond... there is a reason he is now about 26/27 and still a back up keeper, there is a reason he has spent his career getting loaned out and a reason he was free.Good post. If Sam Johnstone visits this forum, and social media, then he must feel totally alienated from the clubs supporters.
The way some people go on about dropping Johnstone, they must think Bilic is somehow going to get the next Neuer plucked out the academy!
Dropping for who? Please don't suggest bond... there is a reason he is now about 26/27 and still a back up keeper, there is a reason he has spent his career getting loaned out and a reason he was free.
The way some people go on about dropping Johnstone, they must think Bilic is somehow going to get the next Neuer plucked out the academy!
ikeep asking and no-one answers, What the hell is Al Habsi doing??? What are we paying for??That had occurred to me too, but I guess he's just backup backup.
That had occurred to me too, but I guess he's just backup backup.
A backup backup goalkeeper for me should be a youth player. Bilic must really not rate the kids he has available.
A backup backup goalkeeper for me should be a youth player. Bilic must really not rate the kids he has available.Palmer’s on loan, Griffiths and Cann are 18ish and ahead of Brad House while The likes of Pierce and Przybek are gone (not sure on Keranovic, he’s disappeared)
ikeep asking and no-one answers, What the hell is Al Habsi doing??? What are we paying for??
It's quite obvious what he's being paid to do. Al Habsi started out as an airport firefighter. He's therefore employed not only as third choice goalkeeper but also doubles up as training ground fire marshal. Two birds with one stone and all that.
Yours, M. Jenkins (maybe....allegedly....etc).
Griffiths' distribution was awful when I saw him in the U23's. I'd say he's a good way off the first team.
Palmer will be 24 at the start of the new season, if he doesn't break through in the summer he never will. I have a feeling we will sell him to a lower league team.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2020/march/bili-wins-sky-bet-manager-of-the-month/
Slav named manager of the month for February. Well done Slav
Well done and shame on the pathetic minority of online keyboard warriors throwing mud at him and our club.Are you having a bad day?
Bilic is the man. Does he always get it right in his selections? I think, mostly, he does. Does he know a sh17load more than we do? YES.
Well deserved Slaven.
Anyone who has doubts over bilic clearly has a couple of screws loose. ;D
Screenshot of wba.co.uk doing the rounds saying Bilic has gone? ???
Screenshot of wba.co.uk doing the rounds saying Bilic has gone? ???
Screenshot of wba.co.uk doing the rounds saying Bilic has gone? ???
what day is it today?wednesday !
what day is it today?Christmas?
what day is it today?Today.
Today.
Any one else wondering what SB (is) up to during this hiatus in the season?......Anything else we think...he.. should be doing?
Having seen a photo of Mrs Bilic the other day, if I were Mr Bilic I'd be mostly banging the Mrs 8) ;) .If there is one person I can rely on this forum to keep me smiling, it's you mate.
Having seen a photo of Mrs Bilic the other day, if I were Mr Bilic I'd be mostly banging the Mrs 8) ;) .Absolutely true. But like going up the M5 first time...... after 3000 times you need a rest!
Having seen a photo of Mrs Bilic the other day, if I were Mr Bilic I'd be mostly banging the Mrs 8) ;) .
Wow! Just took a gander, absolutely stunning.
Thank you but I'm spoken for, flattering nonetheless you old smoothie :-* .
Having seen a photo of Mrs Bilic the other day, if I were Mr Bilic I'd be mostly banging the Mrs 8) ;) .By the look of him, it looks like he responded to your recommendation mate.
£12m payout for being sacked by his old club. Football really is bonkers.
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/05/15/west-brom-boss-slaven-bilic-bags-12m/
I honestly don't mind it. If the money is in the game (and you could argue it isn't I guess), but if it is, then I'd rather see managers, playing staff getting big wages than it being pocketed by all the directors and board members - because that's where it would go otherwise.
At the end of the day, it's no different to movie stars getting paid big bucks.
Sky sports have done an interview with Slav - available to watch here:
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11698/11994438/at-home-with-west-brom-boss-slaven-bilic
not actually had a chance to watch it yet.
Wonder how Slaven will utilise the 5 subs rule?
Also if we are winning comfortable I expect him to bring some kids onI don’t think so
Also if we are winning comfortable I expect him to bring some kids on
Have I read you can still only make three interventions? ie. to get the 5 subs on if you had already made 2 separate changes the next (last) would have to be a triple substitution?
Have I read you can still only make three interventions? ie. to get the 5 subs on if you had already made 2 separate changes the next (last) would have to be a triple substitution?
Thats exactly how ive seen the way it will be implemented.
Glad I haven't imagined it!!or a triple and a double.... pedantry A level
So for clarity to utilise all 5 subs, you can either...
Make 1 quintuple substitution.
Make 1 quadruple and 1 single substitution.
Make 1 triple and 2 single substitutions.
OR make 2 double and 1 single substitution.
or a triple and a double.... pedantry A level
Glad I haven't imagined it!!Yep basically its all 5 subs across 3 substitions only, in whichever way you wish to bring them on.
So for clarity to utilise all 5 subs, you can either...
Make 1 quintuple substitution.
Make 1 quadruple and 1 single substitution.
Make 1 triple and 2 single substitutions.
Make 1 triple and 1 double substitution.
OR make 2 double and 1 single substitution.
Since lads have been back I'm right in saying that 60 minutes is all the players have got into their legs with these friendlies, that being said I'd expect multiple changes around the 60 min mark. Once up to speed then individual game will dictate changes.both Utd games were 90mins each, so they have all done match length at least once.
Yep basically its all 5 subs across 3 substitions only, in whichever way you wish to bring them on.I assume it’s to stop continual substitutions at the end of the game to run the clock down aka time wasting !
I'd like to see Tulloch get some minutes but only IF / WHEN he has signed a new contract.I don’t get hung up on contacts , I’d play him regardless ....once we have promotion confirmed, if the gaffer wants to rest others.
Glad I haven't imagined it!!
So for clarity to utilise all 5 subs, you can either...
Make 1 quintuple substitution.
Make 1 quadruple and 1 single substitution.
Make 1 triple and 2 single substitutions.
Make 1 triple and 1 double substitution.
OR make 2 double and 1 single substitution.
I remember reading somewhere that you can make any changes during half time and it doesn't count as one of the three opportunities.
Does he only have 1 year left on his contract if so we should probably be looking to get him a longer deal
No. Reward him upon promotion. Nothing stupid like an 8 year deal.
Agreed, no dumb deals, that is the road to ruin, a rolling year or rolling 2 year max.
A contract has to be attractive for both parties. Why would he accept a rolling 1 or 2 year deal?
I have always thought a 12 month rolling contract was the best and in some ways fairest arrangement for both club and coach.
From the coaches perspective he is always guaranteed 12 months pay should the club be minded to sack him. Equally the club will always get some compensation should the coach up and leave but that won't be enough to deter a determined suitor. It does not preclude a negotiated mutually beneficial termination say if the coach wanted to retire. It also avoids all speculation in circumstances where a coach's contract is running down because well the contract never runs down.
Picked the wrong team today. Krovinovic was the outstanding player for last few games before lockdown and he got 5 minutes. How can you pick HRK instead of him? It's about picking the best players. Guardiola played with a False 9 at Barcelona and they still smashed teams.
erm because he's a striker not a midfielder.
Bilic isn't Guardiola. We aren't Barcelona.
Picked the wrong team today. Krovinovic was the outstanding player for last few games before lockdown and he got 5 minutes. How can you pick HRK instead of him? It's about picking the best players. Guardiola played with a False 9 at Barcelona and they still smashed teams.needs to figure out his best team because this one wasn't, waste of time picking player's on past performances. Phillips, Kanu struggling before shut down. Krovinovic should have started with Diangana also in first team.
I wouldn't even call him.a striker he's just a forward. Krovinovic is just as good for goal scoring and assists and is just a better all round player.
Krovinovic has assisted 4 time this season with 2 goals Robson Kanu has scored 10 with 1 assist, which is what you'd expect when comparing 2 players that don't play in the same position when one of them is a striker.
You can't logically compare a midfielder with an attacker/forward/striker they are not like for like.
I’m not Bilic’s biggest cheerleader, in fact I think despite being incredibly likeable, he’s massively over rated.
However He’s entitled to expect better from those players who simply have to create more when they dominate a game like that.
Whether it’s HRK or Austin, or Robinson, Grosicki, Pereira, Krovinovic, Philips, or Diangana chosen, they should be capable of more when the other side offers so little.
Let’s stop asking for new contracts for Bilic after passionate interviews though, let’s do it after a period of great results.
What, like have us sitting in first position after nearly the whole season?
I’ll tell you what worries me ....throughout this season we don’t seem to have one off blips, at present we haven’t scored in over 270 minutes of league football, the run we had without winning pre Christmas dragged on....and despite him being very popular etc...I still think that Slaven has had the advantage of injuries/suspensions making the big decisions for him (when sawyers desperately needed dropping)
I have a fear he picks the same starting 11 as per the blues game....and that won’t end well .
Not much in it HRK also had more gametime. If Krov played in his position then he'd be 10 yards further up the pitch giving loads more potential for goals and assists.
I'm sure that he will put out a slighter different team/squad for the Brentford game. I would expect to see Grosicki on the bench (if not starting).
I agree. I think we will see Grosicki on the bench. However, I'm sure there was an occasion before the shutdown where Grosicki didnt make the squad too. So I do wonder how much Bilic fancies him.
There isn't a cat in hells chance he will go with the starting X1 he picked against Blues. No chance. There will be changes.
That's a ridiculous argument to make. Krovinovic isn't a striker/forward whatever word you want to use. If he played 10 yards further forward as you suggest he would look like a midfielder playing out of position.
Krovinovic joining Sawyers and Livermore in a midfield 3 yes but not replacing a forward.
Anyway back to Bilic.
I'm sure that he will put out a slighter different team/squad for the Brentford game. I would expect to see Grosicki on the bench (if not starting). I think Diangana will come in for Robinson and we may well go 4-3-3 with Krovinovic joining Livermore and Sawyers in midfield.
The team he put out against Blues was good enough to beat them but due to a lack of being able to break down a very stubborn defensive side and also when we did put balls in the box nobody anticipated them plus some wayward shooting we didn't win.
Not ridiculous at all. Krovinovic couldn't play in a midfield. 2 just like Brunt, Greening, Barry etc. He is not fast enough for an outright winger either. He doesn't have defensive capability. He is a player in the mould of Messi, Cantona, Zidane, Zola etc a No10 playmaker. It's not ideal but sometimes. Special circumstances dictate. He is a bettet player than HRK every day of the week, if you can't see that well...... What is it 3 hours without a championship goal.
Agree with this 100%. He has shown on several occasions he is not afraid to make changes. He was given a 2 year remit to get the club promoted and is ahead of schedule following a major rebuild last summer.I honestly cannot think of any big changes to personal,tactics he has made that were positive, without them being made for him by injuries/suspensions,..can you?
Not ridiculous at all. Krovinovic couldn't play in a midfield. 2 just like Brunt, Greening, Barry etc. He is not fast enough for an outright winger either. He doesn't have defensive capability. He is a player in the mould of Messi, Cantona, Zidane, Zola etc a No10 playmaker. It's not ideal but sometimes. Special circumstances dictate. He is a bettet player than HRK every day of the week, if you can't see that well...... What is it 3 hours without a championship goal.
I clearly said Krovinovic to join Livermore and Sawyers in a midfield 3, not sure where you get the midfield 2 from? His best games have come as part of a midfield 3.
It's 3 games without a goal not 3 hrs but all strikers go through a dry spell. He's still our top scorer.
It's still a ridiculous idea to drop a striker for a midfielder...especially dropping 10 goals for 2 goals.
I think Krovinovic is a more technical player but he plays a different role to HRK so saying one is better than the other is illogical as you are comparing two different things.
Don't get me wrong I like Krovinovic and think he should be starting games but not as a replacement for HRK.
I honestly cannot think of any big changes to personal,tactics he has made that were positive, without them being made for him by injuries/suspensions,..can you?
HRK is top. Scorer because Austin is a perennial sub and Zohore out of the picture. Nothing to write home about 10 goals, the Kevin Phillips would have 25-30 by now in this team. HRK is not good enough for this team. The only other option is Robinson up front. If you watched the Guardiola Barcelona team from. 2008 onwards, the false 9 does work as he proved it. We need the best players starting at this critical stage. He did the right thing with including Hegazi / Gibbs. Starting Krov and Diangana on the bench is madness. How can HRK be one of the best XI with everyone available?
Guardiola had the players to play with a false number 9 we don't. Are you seriously comparing us with Barcelona??? The problem on Saturday wasn't with the formation it was that we didn't create enough clear chances, too many times Phillips had the chance to cross but decided to try and beat his man another time. Phillips wasn't the only one though Gibbs, Periera, Edwards all did it too.
HRK is top scorer because he has scored more goals than anyone else in the team end of. Austin is usually a sub because he hasn't been good enough when he comes on (apart from Blues away). IF HRK isn't good enough for this team then Austin isn't. Neither HRK or AUstin should be 1st or 2nd choice in the PL. The less said about Zohore the better.
I wouldn't mind seeing Robinson through the middle but we would need to play to his strengths. Although I can imagine there would be lots of moans on here if Bilic tried it and we didn't win.
At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you or I think about the line up it's Bilic that makes the call. He put out a team on Saturday that should have been capable of beating Blues but we didn't, that's football.
As I said in a previous post I'm sure Bilic will make changes to either the starting line up and/or the bench for the Brentford game. Football is a squad game and while players are getting back to match sharpness it makes sense to utilise that squad as much as possible.
It's the same scenario as Barcelona. We are one of the leading lights in the division. Our players are a class above most of the division so WBA v B'ham was a bit like Barca v Levante. I'm quoting real stats in that we're struggling to make the net bulge. Austins primary problem is fitness, he's not in prime condition. You seem to also acknowledge that HRK is not good enough and doesn't have the instinct of a natural scorer. He doesn't play on the shoulder of a defender because he's slow, everything is back to goal and limits our attacking options.
I have also quoted real stats the main one being that HRK is our top goalscorer.
The Barcelona comparison isn't as simple as you make it though. Barcelona had players that were schooled in playing with a false number 9, we haven't had that luxury so to try it with players that would have to adjust to it is a bad idea especially as there is a promotion at stake and only 8 games left.
OK that's your view. I happen to think formations are a little over rated and its down to the quality of players at your disposal. The other point is that Sawyers and Livermore are poor at shooting from outside the box, you'll have noted that Krovinovic is more adept. When your forward is not prolific is to put the pressure and emphasis on midfield to score.
Ther was a post on Facebook with a quote from Darnell furlong
Along the lines of we are working on being more defensive so that the frontline don’t have to score as many....
Now whilst I get it...and we have 6 clean sheets in 9 matches (League) ......we haven’t scored for over 3 matches (league) and our imbalance in squad is definitely weighted towards the front end of the pitch....it would seem like a very strange strategy for 5his manager and 5his group of players .
I think you're missing the point of the quote.That’s what I said....so no..I don’t think I’m missing the point .
https://twitter.com/WBA/status/1275728225386270721?s=09
If we're not scoring many then we need to be keeping clean sheets or we will lose, that's fairly obvious.
That’s what I said....so no..I don’t think I’m missing the point .
Ok then, apologies. Seemed to me you were suggesting we need to be more gung-ho in order to start scoring.Dow be daft..no need to apologise
In reality it's a minor fluff piece to give our social media team something to post. It's pretty common sense that the defence will be working hard on keeping clean sheets
if that's the case why do managers buy players that will fit their system?
Sawyers is poor at shooting from outside the box as was evidenced on Saturday. Livermore isn't as bad as you are making out, he has scored from outside the box. Krovinovic might be more adept at it but he doesn't do it often enough. He had a goal disallowed against Millwall earlier this season but then seemed reluctant to shoot from range after that and was often one of the players guilty of endlessly passing it around the edge of the box when shooting was an option.
Yes our forwards aren't prolific but we are the second highest scorers in the league only 2 behind the top scorers are 6 goals better than the 3rd highest scorers, so scoring isn't an issue. Not really sure why you mentioned it.
The issue that Bilic has to deal with is how we break down sides that pack the defence and sit back like Blues did on Saturday. Luckily most of the games we have left are against teams with something to play for, which should mean a more open game.
In recent games we are struggling to open teams up, apparently its 270mins without a goal. My point is HRK is a guaranteed starter when he only scores occasionally. Someone else said it was madness Edwards was picked as a sub ahead of Grosicki. I agree and Grosicki is one of our fastest players despite turning 30. So I don't see why Grosicki or Robinson can't be deployed as the central striker? Krovinovic was our best player in the few games before the lockdown and I noted his shooting ability.Ajayi pretty much confirmed in an interview that Kyle Edwards is the quickest member of our 1st team squad. It's good to see Bilic show some faith in him and we have seen him produce a burst of pace or quick shifts of the ball on the edge of the box to get shots off. Perfectly reasonable to bring him on - like the other 3 wingers used on the night he didn't get much joy but doesn't make it wrong to bring him on. I'm not aware of Grosicki playing through the middle to any extent and I think most of us would be surprised if Bilic played him there.
In summary, Phillips/Livermore/Sawyers/HRK are very lucky to be guaranteed starters with their patchy form. If I was Krovinovic I wouldn't be happy with the team selection v Blues. We'll see what Bilic comes up with tomorrow night......
Ajayi pretty much confirmed in an interview that Kyle Edwards is the quickest member of our 1st team squad. It's good to see Bilic show some faith in him and we have seen him produce a burst of pace or quick shifts of the ball on the edge of the box to get shots off. Perfectly reasonable to bring him on - like the other 3 wingers used on the night he didn't get much joy but doesn't make it wrong to bring him on. I'm not aware of Grosicki playing through the middle to any extent and I think most of us would be surprised if Bilic played him there.
In recent games we are struggling to open teams up, apparently its 270mins without a goal. My point is HRK is a guaranteed starter when he only scores occasionally. Someone else said it was madness Edwards was picked as a sub ahead of Grosicki. I agree and Grosicki is one of our fastest players despite turning 30. So I don't see why Grosicki or Robinson can't be deployed as the central striker? Krovinovic was our best player in the few games before the lockdown and I noted his shooting ability.
In summary, Phillips/Livermore/Sawyers/HRK are very lucky to be guaranteed starters with their patchy form. If I was Krovinovic I wouldn't be happy with the team selection v Blues. We'll see what Bilic comes up with tomorrow night......
Ther was a post on Facebook with a quote from Darnell furlongBut as we are hoping to playing in the Prem, this would need to be addressed at some point, so at least it shows forward thinking.
Along the lines of we are working on being more defensive so that the frontline don’t have to score as many....
Now whilst I get it...and we have 6 clean sheets in 9 matches (League) ......we haven’t scored for over 3 matches (league) and our imbalance in squad is definitely weighted towards the front end of the pitch....it would seem like a very strange strategy for 5his manager and 5his group of players .
I’m going to repeat a point I made in the match thread....well Bilic will be happy because he loves the championship.
Darren Moore’s last 15 league games - 25 points from 45 and sacked.
Bilic’s last 15 league games -19 points from 45!
We can’t sack him, we have to see it through but the bloke belongs in a studio with Gary Neville.
I hope we manage to stumble over the line because the money will help us longer term, particularly in uncertain times, but next season will be hard work and I’ve no confidence or faith he will be able to keep us up.
If we don’t go up we are in real trouble and I think we could see a real extended period of time in the championship.
Robinson I can see as a central striker as he has played there before but I can't see the logic of playing Grosicki, who has spent his entire career as a winger, through the middle. Yes he has pace but that pace is better on the wing. We need players that can beat a man and put a cross in that's where Grosicki is most dangerous.
Phillips would be another option through the middle as he has played there before.
I agree that Krovinovic was much improved for the 12 games before shut down but before that he was very hit and miss. Used as part of a midfield 3 he has become effective. I just can't see him playing as a false 9 as you suggested.
HRK does score occasionally but he scores more occasionally than anyone else.
As you saw tonight we were far far better with HRK off and Krovinovic on. I don't know what Bilic is doing? Both HRK and Zohore were poor but at least the latter hit the bar. By playing with a midfield 3 we disrupted their passing game and looked much better. We are playing a striker for the sake of it. The False 9 option is not as far fetched as you seem to think. It's like picking a rubbish Spinner in a Test Match on a green top just because he's a Spinner instead of picking another Seamer who's more skilled.let's face it we haven't got a decent striker on our books unless we give Tulloc a run out.
let's face it we haven't got a decent striker on our books unless we give Tulloc a run out.
Hes not good enough either, seen him a few times.
Has to fall on his sword.
Bilic has addressed our poor defensive record - no doubt. Brentford beat us but Johnstone didn't have much to do outside of that. He's turned around poor form earlier in the season and I believe in him, he'll do it again.
As much as I like Furlong i think O'Shea should come back - he was part of that defence turning it around but also i think the right side needs addressing. Phillips has not done enough.
He needs to go back to the 433 that was working so well. Diangana needs to start on the right of the 3 pronged attack now fit and needs a few games to get his mojo back - he shown glimpses yesterday. Hopefully Grosicki is back soon.
I think we need to start with Austin - he can put chances away and is a great finisher as he's proven. He has 1 goal every 134 minutes for us - he deserves a chance and HRK is bang out of form. If not Austin then Robinson.
We just need to go back to what was working pre-covid with a few tweaks in attack.
I disagree. Ok we’ve not conceded as many recently, but we’ve not looked any better at the back when teams have attacked us. So I don’t think anything has changed, and it’s likely over a longer period our problems at the back will be clear again.
Even saying he turned around poor form is questionable, he stopped a horrific slide for a month but now we seem to be back in it, and the squad is too good to never have 3/4 game spells of good results in this division.
He may get us over the line, we still have a great chance and if we win Wednesday and Sunday things look better again, improving further if Brentford and Fulham drop some points. Longer term he isn’t inspiring me though and if we fail there’s no defending him.
Bilic would be a huge concern for me in the Premier League. If he sets us up the way he is doing we will get absolutely obliterated by a number of teams. Newly promoted clubs cannot go and try and out football Premier League teams with the abundance of quality those clubs have.
Wolves and Sheff Utd have done it right, both set up in a way to concede possession and then play off that. You have to be more aware of the opposition.
Bilic doesnt play that way. If he tries to do out play Man City I'm not watching that match I'll peep at the score through my fingers at full time.
I wish people would stop banging on about the games before lock down which we didn't score in. Those games count for nothing now. We are effectively now playing in a mini tournament with no intense pre season. That Swansea game was three and a half months ago. It's completely different circumstances we are playing under now and with different prep. The way I look at these opening two games is the blues game we should of won but our passing was off in the final third and we looked leggy. First game back with it also being a Derby not easy then we travelled to the best side in the league who are high on confidence after beating Fulham last week that's without mentioning that only Brentford and Man City are the only clubs in the country who seem to of hit the ground running post lock down. We will get there... Just
I think Bilic has done a great job so far. In my view the squad is nowhere near as good as people think. Yes we are blessed with plenty of wide attacking options but the spine of the side is very weak. Johnstone Bartley Livermore and HRK have been the mainstays in the side and all are average at best.
I agree to an extent.
Bartley has has a good season, completely revitalised to last year under Moore. We've only lost one game this season with him playing.
That’s a bit angry.
You are talking rubbish and that's not me being rude its fact.
We have lost 3 league games with Bartley starting
Leeds
Stoke
Cardiff
And one when he came on as sub for the injured Hegazi at 0-0
Wigan
If you want to be taken seriously, I suggest your facts straight.
we have lost almost every match Hegazi has started
That’s a bit angry.
I get the sentiment but , we have lost almost every match Hegazi has started , so even just on ratios Bartley comes out on top.
I also think he is much better this year than last....and would add that Semi always looks better next to Kyle (or at least less panicked)
Thank you, Atomic, you need to learn some manners. No need to be so aggressive. The above post is spot on.
Are you in a bad mood today ...relax ...we can’t lose again until Wednesday .
Again, nonsense
What you said was rubbish, simple as that. If you don't want to be picked up for saying things that are factually untrue then check your facts.If you don’t want to be picked up about stuff ...start with dialect
Are you in a bad mood today ...relax ...we can’t lose again until Wednesday .
What you said was rubbish, simple as that. If you don't want to be picked up for saying things that are factually untrue then check your facts.
You can point out the mistake in the post without launching in an abusive meltdown. The wider point remains that we lost more regularly with Hegazi playing and our best partnership this season has plainly been Ajayi with Bartley.
We've lost games because since around Christmas when Diangana was injured our front players haven't been creating or scoring goals. Nothing to do with centre backs.
It changed when Robinson came in we went 433 and looked outstanding.
Then Sawyers got suspended Bilic messed the midfield up changing two positions instead of one. Robinson went off the boil and we started failing to score again.
Now Bilic has completely lost it since the lockdown, bombing players out, changing the system and basically making a mess that didnt need making.
This is probably why I'm fed up.
Do you know what lads,I'm fed up with the excuses.
Put out an attacking team on Wednesday with Grosiki and Pereira on the wings and Robinson up top and krov at 10 then attack in all remaining games because if we start winning Brentford can't catch us
I agree, our inconsistency isn't down to one decision. The team selection post lock-down have been all wrong. I'm praying we can turn it around this week.
Anyone know who are our fitness and conditioning coaches? Because Bilic needs to get answers on why his players look like there running on empty.
I believe our fitness coach is Nick Davies. Ex West Ham and Norwich. Funnily enough Gary O'Neill did make the comment that he was his "fittest" under Davies at Norwich.
Has to fall on his sword.
People saying he looked "stressed" "frazzled" etc...doesn't he always look like that!?
People saying he looked "stressed" "frazzled" etc...doesn't he always look like that!?
People saying he looked "stressed" "frazzled" etc...doesn't he always look like that!?not the way he looked against Brentford, like he new something was wrong. Saw him and said to the better half we ain't going to win this.
I always get the feeling he'd look more comfortable with a fag on the go to be honest. That or looking at his next victim through the cross hairs of a sniper rifle. Very intense is our Slaven ;D .Hopefully he doesn’t pass the rifle on to the 11 “soilders†or them pigeons could be in trouble
not the way he looked against Brentford, like he new something was wrong. Saw him and said to the better half we ain't going to win this.
Huge pressure on him to get it right tomorrow. The gap is 2 pointsAt the moment?
Its Bilic job to get this team wound right up,read the riot act throw freezing cold water over them before they go out onto the pitch and at half time hairdryers etc.Sounds like he had words at a meeting today.
Tell them to wake up from their slumber, were sleepwalking back into the chumps league ask them if they care about this proud club who pay them a fortune for that privilege shock them somehow he has to work some magic.
Hire catweazle now!!
Its Bilic job to get this team wound right up,read the riot act throw freezing cold water over them before they go out onto the pitch and at half time hairdryers etc.Too right - they certainly need waking up. Our players are paid a lot of money - far more than the opposition in this league. Sheffield Wednesday still owe their team wages this month. I hope our ‘stars’ are aware of how fortunate they are when they put the shirt on tomorrow night. They shouldn’t need reminding of that!
Tell them to wake up from their slumber, were sleepwalking back into the chumps league ask them if they care about this proud club who pay them a fortune for that privilege shock them somehow he has to work some magic.
Hire catweazle now!!
He’s maintained that training, energy, fitness etc have been spot on since they returned to training. Tomorrow’s they must show it in a game.well that's a load of bull just hope he's saying that to media and rollocking his fitness staff and player's for being out of shape. HAIR DRYER treatment needed Mr Bilic. Make them run till they puke.
football managers amaze me when they can not see that a player is playing poorly for weeks and virtually all the fans can.
We haven't been very good but we've only had two games. Bilic does get to see the players day in day out which we don't and sees how fit or unfit they are after lockdown and sees what they are putting in and producing on the training pitch. That is probably the reason he has Edwards in front of Grosicki at the moment for example. We need to see what is produced tonight and where we go over the next 2 or 3 games.
Happens all the time doesnt it? There are that many examples going back in time. Almost always the fans end up being right. Some of the time it ends up in a manager losing his job. Don't think that'll be the case in this instance though.
Bilic is picking "favourites" at the moment which is obvious because he's leaving players out that have not deserved leaving out. Some of the players he's picking he is NOT picking because they've earned it through performances nor did the teams results dictate it.
It cant be doing the morale of some of the players any good and that can have a knock on effect throughout the squad.
We haven't been very good but we've only had two games. Bilic does get to see the players day in day out which we don't and sees how fit or unfit they are after lockdown and sees what they are putting in and producing on the training pitch. That is probably the reason he has Edwards in front of Grosicki at the moment for example. We need to see what is produced tonight and where we go over the next 2 or 3 games.We don't have 2 or 3 games though mate. Brentford are relentless at the minute so we need to stay ahead of them and that means winning games. We can't play not to lose and hope for the best.
We haven't been very good but we've only had two games. Bilic does get to see the players day in day out which we don't and sees how fit or unfit they are after lockdown and sees what they are putting in and producing on the training pitch. That is probably the reason he has Edwards in front of Grosicki at the moment for example. We need to see what is produced tonight and where we go over the next 2 or 3 games.
We don't have 2 or 3 games though mate. Brentford are relentless at the minute so we need to stay ahead of them and that means winning games. We can't play not to lose and hope for the best.
We don't have 2 or 3 games though mate. Brentford are relentless at the minute so we need to stay ahead of them and that means winning games. We can't play not to lose and hope for the best.I totally agree with you on the 4-3-3, and also with Krov in the CM/AM link role. There will have been words since the Brentford game and we'll hope to see a big reaction tonight and ongoing.
If players are flattering to deceive in training then Bilic needs to see that and pick a team that has the desire, experience and know how to win by whatever means possible.
Austin may not be technically as good as others, but he knows where the goal is. He comes in for me, even if we have to modify our approach a little bit.
Grosicki is direct, can cross a ball, take set pieces and is not scared to shoot. He should be in.
Krov is technically our best CM who can open doors and link the midfield to the forward line. He should be in.
Most important change though has to be 4-3-3, it's by far our most positive option.
I'm going to lay it on the line, in that, I don't think Bilic can survive failing from this position, forget the 2 year plan, that will go out the window if we blow this, so he needs to get a grip quickly. It's time to take a few risks.
did Bilic have a say in our January signings?Peltier was always a short term cover signing due to the Ferguson situation. Think you are being a bit unkind on Robinson - he did well overall in his first 4 or 5 games I'd say. Played a big part in getting us out of our mid season slump with his directness - has tailed off a bit though with the rest of 'em.
Peltier has not played at all has he?
Absi??I can understand just as cover.
Grosicki inexplicably did not play in first match he was available and has started very few if any games
Robinson was excellent for 1st half of his debut and acceptable in the 2nd half but since then appears very lightweight like Jacob Murphy did last year.
I am not impressed if he did have a say and if he didn't why not?
How would you feel if you were a Brentford player, playing out of your skin & got within 2 points of WBA, only to see them win at Sheffield Wednesday & put 5 points between us, so they now have to win 2 more games than us with only 6 games left?
Think I'd be gutted.
I think that's the dressing room speech I'd be making tonight.
I don’t know about ‘gutted’ but I think it’s fair to say the Brentford players will be a little flatter tonight if we win. It’s human nature.Brentford could run out as Champions! Leeds look more fallible at present.
On the other hand, you can imagine the excitement amongst their players if we lose, the banter in the group WhatsApp’s, the smiles in training at thought of going second on Saturday and twisting the screw further. I’ve said this numerous times over the years, momentum in sport is huge.
If we don’t win tonight, I honestly think Brentford will pip us. A win is great for us, and also may just take some wind from their sales.
Brentford could run out as Champions! Leeds look more fallible at present.
I really hope we hit the mother lode tonight and our season takes off for the last few games.If Grady is indeed injured , and he does not pick Grosicki then he needs locking up.
We've been top two all season and if we ended up in the playoffs I think that would kill us.
On a brighter note, a win tonight would assure us of a play off place ???
It shouldn't even be debatable whether Bilic should survive this season if he doesn't get us promoted from this position. It would be a massive failure which we couldn't at all risk repeating for another season and he would simply have to leave.
We've again this season relied on having better individual players and a bigger budget than most of the clubs in the league to keep us around the top of the table. We have not even been playing a good brand of football of which you can look at and see a vast improvement and a way forward for the future. Countless first halves of games have been very poor and we have just relied on a bit of quality to nick us some points in the second half. Some team choices have in my opinion been poor and he has also been reluctant to rest players who quite clearly could have done with replacing as their form was poor and we had the squad depth to give someone else a run of games.
However, and surprisingly, we're still in the top 2. Make no mistake though, to screw it up from here would not be worthy of another chance next season. It's time to prove me and some others wrong, because I'm just not convinced we're that good under Bilic.
I think we will find out today Diangana has a pull, he looked in pain as he left his seat on 90mins.
Step forward Kamil Grosicki
IF we don't go up this season Bilic will go nowhere. We will bring in a decent striker or two and strengthen in one or two areas and we will run away with this league next season.
If we are to fail this season and Bilic is sacked then I suggest next season we will struggle with the vast majority of decent players moving on.
That’s pipe-dream stuff Atomic. The owner(s) won’t sanction those signings and I think our parachute payments will have all been used.
January 2020 was the crucial time to bring in another striker. It was evident HRK, Chaz and Big Ken weren’t going to score enough goals.
That’s pipe-dream stuff Atomic. The owner(s) won’t sanction those signings and I think our parachute payments will have all been used.
January 2020 was the crucial time to bring in another striker. It was evident HRK, Chaz and Big Ken weren’t going to score enough goals.
There is no chance of Bilic being sacked. Only a handful of the most mentalist of Albion fans have suggested that should / would walk if we don't get promoted this season. Sad indictment of the modern football fan mentality and a view that is totally alien to most the fan base.
Again I hope you are correct if we don’t gain promotion. My concern is the vocal minority often get their wish.
Wait and see.
You're not going to get any decent striker in January.
I've not seen anyone say they WANT him to go?
I have seen a fair few on twitter to be honest.
Really? Think that's call for the unfollow button.
I've not seen anyone say they WANT him to go?
Other than asking him to be given the boot after Brentford away (and that was said literally moments after the game had ended on Sky Sports) I’m not leading a vocal minority to see him sacked. I’m pointing out we really shouldn’t be in this position and think it’s okay to accept it.
Wait and see.
You're not going to get any decent striker in January.
Agreed we shouldn’t be in this position, however let’s assume we don’t make it this season there is no logic to replacing Bilic.
Aztech what would Bilic do differently next season? Personally I see us languishing, with or without him.
With a years experience of the championship I believe he would see certain things differently.
What’s more to the point I believe the type of players we could secure would be better quality with Bilic in charge than a run of the mill championship manager who we would likely replace him with.
With a years experience of the championship I believe he would see certain things differently.
What’s more to the point I believe the type of players we could secure would be better quality with Bilic in charge than a run of the mill championship manager who we would likely replace him with.
He couldn’t bring Dwight home despite trying in the summer window and the January window, who was barely getting game time at Newcastle. He may not be able to bring in a rough-diamond Croat or an under-the-radar West Ham player on loan next season.
I tend to agree. All this talk that we’ll fade into obscurity if we don’t go up is unreal. As Brentford have shown you need a clever transfer policy and some good kids. Neither they or shef u last year had parachute payments etc. We need to leave Bilic in charge of the worst happens and let him build
Brentford are a well run club who have kids with footballing brains. Sheffield United are a highly organised team who understand what it takes to get results.
We’re neither.
Brentford are a well run club who have kids with footballing brains. Sheffield United are a highly organised team who understand what it takes to get results.
We’re neither.
Brentford are a well run club who have kids with footballing brains. Sheffield United are a highly organised team who understand what it takes to get results.
We’re neither.
I honestly believe given his name and history in the game he is more likely to secure the type of player we need than the likes of Rowett, Harrison, Johnson etc The type of manager we would likely replace him with.
The money still has to be there to pay these players wages because they’ll be coming in on loan - which quite frankly we’re too heavily reliant upon. Mandarin Jeremy isn’t going to put his hand in his pocket, that’s for sure!
I agree. We’ve lost our way and our 2010 ways. I think it’s been since Peace left.
Covid may help us if we don’t go up regarding losing players. Money is going to be tighter for all clubs, so I don’t expect anywhere near the kind of business done as in previous years
Other than Pereira, I don’t see a huge clamour for any of the players we own. Keeping most of them won’t be a problem.
Good, simply need to shift Kanu, Zohore, Townsend, Bartley etc
I honestly think Zohore will see out his contact here. I’d be surprised if we are able to move any of the others one this next window either
I cant think of any manager who would realistacally come here that is better than Bilic, its fine saying he will go but for who? For me we are so lucky to have him and I cant believe he is even being questioned before his first season has even finished.
Also the likes of MP and naughty word would never have been here without his reputation.
Overachieved as is by his scouting of good wingers and attacking midfielders krovonovic periera diangana etc.
We have one of the weakest strike forces in the league and a pretty average keeper. How we have even got in the running for the title and promotion with charlie Austin and HRK as our main strikers.
Exactly, excellent effort to be in the running for automatic promotion all season, particularly with so much turnover of the playing squad and all of last season's goals from Barnes, Gayle and J-Rod being taken out of the team. Now of course we need to keep our mettle and get across the line. Nothing really matters apart from Tuesday. Draw or win and then we can win the last two. It's going be a very nervous 11 days potentially. Thank god the games are coming thick and fast.
Yeah it’s been a real big positive, the fixtures come around so quickly. Doesn’t leave too much time to dwell on the previous result. Fulham at home on Tuesday is now the biggest game of the season. I hope it’ll along be remembered for the right reasons, fingers crossed.
He hasn’t failed yet and let’s hope we don’t. However if we dont get top two, let’s not make out like getting close will be some grand achievement.Totally agree, however the minute you question him you are accused of being short sighted, wanting him out and asked “who’s betterâ€
Throwing away such a great advantage will be a disaster and a massive failure. Our form since December has been awful.
We haven’t dropped points because teams have better players or ability (in most cases) and if we had that would be ok. .
We’ve dropped points because of things the manager should be affecting.
Totally agree, however the minute you question him you are accused of being short sighted, wanting him out and asked “who’s betterâ€
I think he’s ok....but he’s made and repeated some clear errors....we have had more than enough opportunity to have this all sorted with games to spare.
Bilic is not beyond criticism however the question “who’s better†is always relevant, and more to the point who that’s an improvement is likely to want to join.
Bilic has done very well this season. Yes he got the subs completely wrong yesterday but you have to blame poor finishing for not winning the game. A decent striker in this side and we’d have been promoted by now.
Bilic is not beyond criticism however the question “who’s better†is always relevant, and more to the point who that’s an improvement is likely to want to join.I don’t need to be an expert to see and mention the errors
I don’t need to be an expert to see and mention the errors
I do need to be an expert to be able to scout and interview the relevant replacement when the time comes.
Then would you agree our chances of securing a better replacement are likely to be reduced with what will Likely be a reduced budget.Money isn’t everything
There’s also the compensation we would have to pay to Bilic and his coaches.
If we are not promoted does Bilic go elsewhere?
If we are not promoted does Bilic go elsewhere?
I would just point out that this is Bielsa’s 3rd attempt at promotion. Previous 2 attempts his team collapsed after being top 2 for most of season.
Yes, but they usually start to collapse with about 10 games to go. 3rd time lucky for Leeds this season, sadly.
I don't think Bilic will go anywhere if we don't get promoted and nor should he. He signed a 2 year deal with the aim of getting us promoted and I'm sure he'd stick around to try and achieve that.
I certainly want him to stay regardless. Watching his style of football compared to the vast majority of dross we have had to endure over the past few years is a pleasure......
Yup, got to stay for me. He's turned us around in a season and let's face it, if we had a decent striker we'd be well clear by now.
Yes, but they usually start to collapse with about 10 games to go. 3rd time lucky for Leeds this season, sadly.
I don't think Bilic will go anywhere if we don't get promoted and nor should he. He signed a 2 year deal with the aim of getting us promoted and I'm sure he'd stick around to try and achieve that.
You make my point - they stayed loyal to Bielsa even though they had a similar collapse two seasons running. Can you imagine that happening on this forum - the knives would be out for a jolly good killing after the first collapse.
The Corvid 3 month break may have been very helpful to Bielsa and the Leeds team - gave him the opportunity to freshen up his team with another start to the season.
I'm interested in how we have been 'turned around'.This is a fair comment
I dont think the differences between Bilic and Moore are as pronounced as some people would like to believe. The issues are not dissimilar and the positives are mainly still down to us having a better squad and better options than the vast majority of other sides in the division.
However when we play the better sides and the difference in quality is less pronounced (so vs other teams in the top 6), our record is quite poor which i hadn't noticed in particular until someone pointed it out recently.
I'm interested in how we have been 'turned around'.
I dont think the differences between Bilic and Moore are as pronounced as some people would like to believe. The issues are not dissimilar and the positives are mainly still down to us having a better squad and better options than the vast majority of other sides in the division.
However when we play the better sides and the difference in quality is less pronounced (so vs other teams in the top 6), our record is quite poor which i hadn't noticed in particular until someone pointed it out recently.
Moore had a much better squad and complete, superior financial backing. He just wasn't upto it. Don't see the comparison. Bilic has a lot to learn so he is about as good as we are getting in the Champo.this is Bilic's first experience of managing in the chumps isn't it? If so not bad for a novice
Moore had a much better squad and complete, superior financial backing. He just wasn't upto it. Don't see the comparison. Bilic has a lot to learn so he is about as good as we are getting in the Champo.Darren's problems stemmed from having no midfield to speak of and bringing in journey men to cover those positions.
16 draws in this division and most of the sides within it are rubbish
That’s the reason we’re making hard work of it..
this is Bilic's first experience of managing in the chumps isn't it? If so not bad for a novice
Only 6 defeats though.
With our strike force it's no surprise mate, especially with Slav favouring the wrong one until recently.
We've lost 6 matches. Despite my wavering the other night this has been a superb debut season.
While I pour scorn on the Gayle shouts if we'd gave had Mitrovic or Watkins we'd be about 15 points clear. We had 50 at halfway without a striker.
Think it's only his second season at Leeds.
I would just point out that this is Bielsa’s 3rd attempt at promotion. Previous 2 attempts his team collapsed after being top 2 for most of season.
Good job done for me, the team does need work but I've seen enough to know that will Bilic will know what needs doing. I think we have actually got more points than our performances have deserved and a lot of that is down to Bilic and his in-game management in my opinion.
I like Slaven a lot, such a breath of fresh air after the disastrous Pulis era. However, he needs to drop his loyalty to HRK and keep him well away from the pitch in the final two matches....otherwise it could cost us a place in the Prem.
I find Bilic’s loyalty to HRK misplaced at the moment, given his overall contributions in games being quite poor. HRK will be on the pitch at some point against Huddersfield and QPR, make no mistake! 😏Austin was poor vs Fulham, but then again he hasn’t got the legs to start 3 games in a week.
Austin was poor vs Fulham, but then again he hasn’t got the legs to start 3 games in a week.
HRK hasn’t been great since the restart, but never stops trying
Zohore....is available in the raffle
However despite calls for a false nine or Robinson/Phillips/tulloch....this is not the time to mess around....even from just a team psychology point of view
If it were me
I’d get
Johnstone
O’Shea. Semi. Hegazi. Gibbs
Sawyers. Livermore. Krov
Pererira. HRK. Grosiki
In a room and tell them that the start both matches...now go get on with it
If I see HRK is starting in a must win game I will not be happy.Well he wasn’t that easy to mark away at Bristol city , stoke away, boro away, Swansea home etc .
Never stops trying simply isn’t good enough.
I’d play someone mobile up front who has the ability to beat a man and drawer a foul. HRK is very easy to defend against.
If I see HRK is starting in a must win game I will not be happy.
Never stops trying simply isn’t good enough.
I’d play someone mobile up front who has the ability to beat a man and drawer a foul. HRK is very easy to defend against.
HRK up top is a big no from me his purple patch is history and he has reverted back to type. Striker options have been our achilies heal this season and recruitment department have made a right pig's ear of this.
Well he wasn’t that easy to mark away at Bristol city , stoke away, boro away, Swansea home etc .
If I was playing cb I’d want to mark Zohore...then Austin, I really wouldn’t fancy taking on HRK
I was a forward, however if I was playing centre half I’d prefer to Mark HRK
He is not a happy chappy at the moment, just see his demeanour in the last few interviews as proof of this. I hope that he sticks with us no matter what happens this season.
Chris Lepkowski has replied to my tweet suggesting Slav was very unhappy after 3 weeks in the job and Zohore was signed as a panic signing to appease him.
We would have been home and dry before now if Brentford didn’t have their run of form. That’s out of Bilic’s hands.Think that's wrong before the Wigan game we were 4 points clear of Leeds the last nine games we have won 3 drawn 4 and lost 2 and that simply isn't top 2 form draws have killed us.
In all fairness the bloke wasn't happy within a few days of taking the job due to broken promises from Dowling and Co? Can we honestly say we are surprised at that?
Slav will leave if we don't go up. Palace,Watford,Burnley, could be on the lookout for a new manager. Then he could have offers from abroad. I hope he stays but he may fancy his chance elsewhere rather than another slog season in the Championship.
I cant see it at all. It was a two year project and I've little doubt he will see it through.
He doesnt strike me as unhappy either despite what one or two people say, he may be frustrated at our inability to finish our chances but that's be about it.
Hes looked happy enough all season.
15 point lead blown.
I think you have to question Bilic.
15 point lead blown.
I think you have to question Bilic.
I’ve been questioning Bilic for ages. I’ve got no faith in him after this evenings result and I’m not the only one. It’s not completely his fault, but the book stops with him.
Really don't know why he took Livermore off tonight was one of the best players first half.Agreed , take the bloke you make leader off at HT in a vital game . That just shows the blokes lost it.
Agreed , take the bloke you make leader off at HT in a vital game . That just shows the blokes lost it.
He lost it for the Blues game, found it again then lost it again.
It's almost like hes trying to give everyone a game.
Thrown away. Bad management.
Did the instruct the players to play like they had their feet tied together and were blindfolded? It was the idiots on the pitch who let us down.
Bilić hasn't fronted to Sky. Losing all faith in him.Poor form that is.
Tactics are down to slaven but it’s not his fault if:
Team struggles to put 3 passes together in first 20 mins he setsup the team
A goalkeeping error 1st goalhe picks the keeper
Ajayi got dragged to the ball hegazi lost his man completely another error??
Crosses don’t beat first manbest crosser in divisionon the bench
End product not good enough e.g Robinson chancebrought Robindon into the club, and brought him on tonight
Huddersfield did a job on us today slowed us down and never let us get a rhythm even got w booking for time waisting in 15 minutes.
Judge bilic at end of season or the play offs
Don’t be ‘typical fans’
Stick with him, he said it was a 2 year plan so we should give him the two years. Let's face it, we are ill-equipped for the Prem League.
Stick with him, he said it was a 2 year plan so we should give him the two years. Let's face it, we are ill-equipped for the Prem League.He's cutting his own throat.
Tactics are down to slaven but it’s not his fault if:taking off are most effective midfielder at half time and leaving Sawyers on was a shock but starting Phillips is a stackable offence in my book.
Team struggles to put 3 passes together in first 20 mins
A goalkeeping error 1st goal
Ajayi got dragged to the ball hegazi lost his man completely another error
Crosses don’t beat first man
End product not good enough e.g Robinson chance
Huddersfield did a job on us today slowed us down and never let us get a rhythm even got w booking for time waisting in 15 minutes.
Judge bilic at end of season or the play offs
Don’t be ‘typical fans’
We could have Klopp in our dugout but we have our only half decent LB injured, a pathetic excuse for a GK between the sticks with no one better to replace him with and a trio of strikers who are completely dreadful.
The whole season we have over achieved, if you look at our strike force no one would ever put faith in them to get their team promoted. Only the deluded fans who know naff all about football were expecting us to walk the championship.
For people to call for a blokes head who has turned us around completely off the back of the dreadful Pulis dross we all witnessed, its a embarrassing.
and for people to suggest we have the 'best team in the league', what a crock of nonsense that is!
Since the return of football, regardless of what Bilic has tried... the players just ain't seemed up for it for the most part.
8 wins in 23 is over achieving?
Think its far too early to be talking about changing Billic. When you look at our 4 previous managers, he's brought the team a long way. Our goals scored is 2nd highest in the league and we're still 2nd in the league. I'm alot happier with the football under him than under Darren or his predecessors. Who knows he could walk, but I doubt it.
Finally, someone talking sense on this forum.He hasn’t improved us though has he? We made the play offs last year.
The grass ain't always greener on the other side.
Anyone who can get a team to the playoffs with a keeper and front line like ours is over achieving.
I am as angry as everyone else is tonight but despite that I still want to be rational, SB made some major errors tonight Phillips/ Livermore being the major 2, Should we replace him because of this a resounding no!
Anyone who can get a team to the playoffs with a keeper and front line like ours is over achieving.
I am as angry as everyone else is tonight but despite that I still want to be rational, SB made some major errors tonight Phillips/ Livermore being the major 2, Should we replace him because of this a resounding no!
I've put in bold the critical point so many of our fans on this forum thread cannot get their head around.
Leeds had a meltdown last season and chucked it away - didn't see them sacking Bielsa.
I've put in bold the critical point so many of our fans on this forum thread cannot get their head around.
Leeds had a meltdown last season and chucked it away - didn't see them sacking Bielsa.
For me getting rid of Billic now would be a bad move, who the hell do we get in next?
For me getting rid of Billic now would be a bad move, who the hell do we get in next?Not a question of who to bring in, more about can Bilic get us up for the playoffs? If we fail we are in long term trouble.
Not now in the summer yes.
For me getting rid of Billic now would be a bad move, who the hell do we get in next?You can see the candidates now, Danny Cowley and his brother, Lee Johnson or Michael ***** O'Neil.
Used to come to this forum for some sensible debate with people who spoke with some semblance of sense. Seems westbrom.com has become the new Twitter...
Used to come to this forum for some sensible debate with people who spoke with some semblance of sense. Seems westbrom.com has become the new Twitter...Feel free to make some sensible points.
Used to come to this forum for some sensible debate with people who spoke with some semblance of sense. Seems westbrom.com has become the new Twitter...
Sack Bilic and resign yourself to championship struggles.
Sack Bilic and resign yourself to championship struggles. Those asking for his sacking forget the Saunders years and the ten years that followed. For a change we should stick with a manager - we’ve had far worse.
Sack Bilic and resign yourself to championship struggles. Those asking for his sacking forget the Saunders years and the ten years that followed. For a change we should stick with a manager - we’ve had far worse.
Sack Bilic and resign yourself to championship struggles. Those asking for his sacking forget the Saunders years and the ten years that followed. For a change we should stick with a manager - we’ve had far worse.wouldn't trust Jenkins with next appointment but Slaven's decisions of late have been poor and rightly so should be criticised. Said from start it was a two year project to get promoted so happily see how he gets on next year if still in Championship.
How do you know we would be resigned to the championship? For what it's worth I wasn't that pleased in the summer when he joined. He lost the dressing room and had a very poor stint in Saudi or wherever he was based. I wanted Bruno Labbadia that would of been an exciting appointment. Someone totally unknown and out of the ordinary
What are your thoughts on the season since we hit 51 points?
I'm angry and annoyed but thinking of things level headed weve overall done very well this season and far exceeded expectations to have been in the top 2 for so long
That isnt neccesarily the case at all, there are hundreds of managers in the world.
Who are you speaking for here?
Not in my mind we haven't. I look at our squad on paper and expect to be near the top of the league.
Yeah, so let's keep sacking the manager and bringing a new one in every 9 months - that's worked so so well over the course of history. Leeds must be gutted they didn't sack Bielsa after their collapse last season. The Man Utd board must lament not sacking Alex Ferguson anytime between 1986 and 1990 - what a disaster that turned out to be.
It is incredibly short-sighted to be looking to sack the manager for finishing third. Third is gut wrenching after being clear in the top two for so long but is also above what was realistic back in August.
Which genius of a manager collected those 51 points?if my auntie had balls she'd be my uncle, in this position due to our urine poor strike force and shambolic recruitment up top.
If Krov or Livermore had scored from point blank range at Blackburn last weekend when we were leading 1-0 we'd be promoted tonight.
It was the players that crumbled tonight and Slav has got more than a tune out of several very average players all season.
I think your cloud cuckoo land. We haven't got a decent goalkeeper or striker.
Neither have most teams in this league. Their main striker may have scored more than ours but when you look at minutes per goal Austin doesn't come out that bad.
Yeah, so let's keep sacking the manager and bringing a new one in every 9 months - that's worked so so well over the course of history. Leeds must be gutted they didn't sack Bielsa after their collapse last season. The Man Utd board must lament not sacking Alex Ferguson anytime between 1986 and 1990 - what a disaster that turned out to be.
It is incredibly short-sighted to be looking to sack the manager for finishing third. Third is gut wrenching after being clear in the top two for so long but is also above what was realistic back in August.
Who are you speaking for here?
Not in my mind we haven't. I look at our squad on paper and expect to be near the top of the league.
I didnt say sack the manager you are just looking to start an argument.
I just pointed out that there are many managers out there and a number of them could do a job for us. Bilic is not god.
Now, point out where I've ever said sack Bilic.
You’ve used examples of two huge clubs who’d enjoyed periods of dominance before either of those managers were appointed. We’ve won f**k all in over 50 years. That’s a disaster given our clubs proud history in domestic cups.
It amazes me that no one is mentioning lock down and the effect this as had on the players. Plus we have played 5 games in 13 days or something like that not exactly normal circumstances. Not gutless not cowards just not good enough for whatever reason since the restart. Hope Bilic stays pointless getting rid just get him a goalkeeper a box to box midfielder and someone who can put the ball in the net!
He's no better than Moore for me, but I think a lot of people like him due to his personality and success with Croatia (he didn't do that well in reality and inherited an excellent side).
Today and throughout parts of the season he's proved this, no defensive quality on set-pieces, playing his favourites too much and at times a lack of attacking options. If Moore wasn't good enough then neither is Bilic. Remember we probably have the best team in the league on paper, but at times it doesn't look like that.
My mate said Bilic was furious when the club signed Zohore, is this true? I dont remember reading anything about it but it does make sense looking at the fact he doesnt even make the squad in a crucial run in.
Keep Billic regardless of what happens this season. Take Pereira out of this team it may sneak in the top six.
Lepkowski said Ken was signed as a panic buy to appease Bilic over lack of signings
Lepkowski said Ken was signed as a panic buy to appease Bilic over lack of signingsshould have signed Barbie she'd have made a bigger impact.
Bilic has been in charge since last August. I don't think he's had much sway over our trophy haul over the last 50 years.
Lepkowski said Ken was signed as a panic buy to appease Bilic over lack of signings
Christ you are utterly clueless. Bielsa is a different class, up there with Klopp and Guardiola of course they didn't sack him. Bilić is no Sir Alex.
Bottler with no real plan
The more I think about it the more i think he may walk if we fail to go up. Citing the boards lack of support in the transfer market.
Bottler with no real plan
Very harsh. Yes we have thrown it away but we have been top 2 since october. To say he has no plan is ridiculous!
The more I think about it the more i think he may walk if we fail to go up. Citing the boards lack of support in the transfer market.
Bilic cannot cope under pressure.
The board and technical director share a portion of the responsibility for not bringing in another striker in January to bolster our attacking options. But Bilic should take the vast majority of the blame. If he walks, he’ll only be remembered as a complete bottler. There was enough depth in the squad to get us over the finishing line but Slaven couldn’t do it!
Slaven wasn't on the pitch tonight
i wonder if Leeds had similar feelings when Bielsa bottled their promotion last season?
For the 4th or 5th time they're not remotely on the same level. Leeds sacking Bielsa would be like City sacking Pep.
Bilic is just average unfortunately.
But a club like ours isnt going to attract better really is it?
Why? Hodgson was better, Mowbray was better? Even Pulis was better. It was the ones in between that were the problem.
But a club like ours isnt going to attract better really is it?
I hate this sort of post. Who are we Oxford, Mansfield?
Absolute rubbish, a name doesn't make a manager. Obvious current example is the Brentford manager.
We are in a dilemma, as we really cannot wait until Xmas to decide if need to get rid, as getting rid then would mean we are doing badly and it may be too late to salvage the season.
If he walks I would seriously look at 2 managers I mentioned previously, Hughton and Paul Cook.
I hate this sort of post. Who are we Oxford, Mansfield?
Absolute rubbish, a name doesn't make a manager. Obvious current example is the Brentford manager.
Who won 1 of his first 10 games in charge. Our fans would have been calling for his head. Brentfords manager has lost more games than ours. He could be a failure with us who knows.
Who’s going to come to little old Albion...LOL. We’re so much better than that.
Who won 1 of his first 10 games in charge. Our fans would have been calling for his head. Brentfords manager has lost more games than ours. He could be a failure with us who knows.
Why? Hodgson was better, Mowbray was better? Even Pulis was better. It was the ones in between that were the problem.The only one of those possibly Hodgson, though Billic got a small country to a semi final of the world cup. As for Pulis, dear oh dear.
The only one of those possibly Hodgson, though Billic got a small country to a semi final of the world cup. As for Pulis, dear oh dear.Hodgson is and knows football
The only one of those possibly Hodgson, though Billic got a small country to a semi final of the world cup. As for Pulis, dear oh dear.
The only one of those possibly Hodgson, though Billic got a small country to a semi final of the world cup. As for Pulis, dear oh dear.
That "small country" didnt do too badly at the last world cup either.Greece and Denmark have managed to win a trophy, why haven’t Croatia ?
Who won 1 of his first 10 games in charge. Our fans would have been calling for his head. Brentfords manager has lost more games than ours. He could be a failure with us who knows.I'd also add Frank got Brondby to the Europa League the season after they were nearly relegated. While not a household name he's not exactly a nobody either.
Wasnt it old Jeremy Peace who said we were a mid table championship club ;D
That "small country" didnt do too badly at the last world cup either.So they've had 2 very decent managers.
Greece and Denmark have managed to win a trophy, why haven’t Croatia ?
Modric, Klasnic, Mandzukic,... behave small country.what was their squad in 2006 like?
Is this a serious question?Winners medal always trumps a runners up medal....
I am tired and pretty much drunk so you'll have to spell things out lol.
I would argue that world cup finalists trumps Euro Champs? No?
Winners medal always trumps a runners up medal....
Neither of those two teams had a chance(one didn’t even qualify) whereas Croatia have had some awesome players .
Not really. Winners in the Championship doesnt trump runners up in the Premier.But they are not knock out competitions....
I'd argue the world cup is a much higher level than the Euros particularly considering teams are usually working on a 4 year plan leading up to peaking for the world cup and just taking on the Euros on route.
He attracted some good players to the club that I am almost certain wouldn't have come without him being here: diangana periera krovonovic etc.
He has used the squad to the best of his abaility we have no decent strikers and a clown of a keeper. I do agree that he should have stuck with 433 he has been too loyal to some players such as Phillips hrk sawyers etc.
Second half of season Is like 8 wins out of 22 which is pretty bad. He might walk in the summer
Regardless of the outcome for this season we have to avoid the next knee jerk sacking because it takes the club further away from developing a consistent style of play which underpins everything from youth development to recruitment.
Bilic gets the gig for next season come what may. If he fails to get us promotion next year which is quite likely (any coach will struggle to overcome the very obvious challenges next season brings) by default he leaves because at stage we won't be able to renew his contract. We then recruit a Head Coach who plays in a similar style they bed in start to develop the squad then we move forward albeit from a lower base but probably with a younger squad a better defined style and hopefully some sense of purpose.
With SJ and that strike force it is a miracle we are near the top 2. We got off to an absolute flyer and I think that has given people an incorrect opinion of this squad.Agreed but how do we sign another striker or goalkeeper when we have to pay Austin, HRK, Zohore, Johnstone and Bond. They have contracts which will pay far more than anyone else will pay them. They are our squad - until their contacts are up.
I think we've fallen back to what I expected at the start of the season when we didn't sign any striker of note. We genuinely may as well be playing with 10 men our strikers are so ineffective.
I can't remember a single bit of good play, hold up play, decent effort, a pass that set a team mate up from HRK or Austin all game. Wait. Hal did a nice bit of skill 30 seconds in.
Throw in a goal keeper who has got worse as the season has gone on so we are now at the point that any cross into the box is a clear goal scoring chance. We draw so many because we keep giving goals away due to the keeper not controlling his 6vyard box (let alone penalty box).
Thr board neee to hold their hands up for not fixing these obvious issues of the squad in January.
Let Bilic have another go, the lack of striker this season is criminal and SO clearly has been our problem. There's only so much the midfield can do.
Sell them in the window or cancel their contracts. If we go into another season without a decent first choice striker we'll get the same result.In an ideal world we would. You can only sell if someone wants to buy and the player is prepared to sign for them. Cancelling a contract (I’m not sure is even allowed) but if you can means paying them all the wages that they would have earned for the duration of that contract. That would leave very little to pay new players!
We have a lower championship level strike force and keeper, must improve them.
See here's another issue for me , although not one striker is up to it how many clear chances do they get ?
The service at times to Austin and HRK is not there no matter how dangerous MP and Diang are .
That mainly is down to how we set up .
In an ideal world we would. You can only sell if someone wants to buy and the player is prepared to sign for them. Cancelling a contract (I’m not sure is even allowed) but if you can means paying them all the wages that they would have earned for the duration of that contract. That would leave very little to pay new players!
OK then, we are stuck with this team and cannot improve them. What else are we supposed to do if we have clear weak spots in the squad? If this is the case we can't be surprised when we don't end up as successful as we like.It’s a problem many clubs have faced - Sunderland being a prime example. Unfortunately, that’s the modern game. It’s a gamble - I really hope despite the negativity we all feel today that a minor miracle occurs and Stoke beat Brentford and we beat QPR. Then we roll the dice again.
I think overall Bilic has done an OK job this season. He has a strange squad at is his disposal, it is incredibly strong in certain areas for this league, however having no forwards of any mobility or quality has cost us dearly. As has having no defensive midfielder in the Yacob mode to sniff out danger and protect the back 4, neither Sawyers or Livermore excel in this area.thoughtful insight there pal and through the red mist of anger still have a chance of promotion. Bilic needs to change personal, Brunt left back, Barry midfield with Harper and Livermore. Townsend, Sawyers And krovinovic dropped. Tulloch given a chance up top with Phillips and Kanu nowhere to be seen.
Having said all that, you can not argue that with some of the players at his disposal, a good coach would have found a system/style that would at the very least, secure a top 6 finish which we look set to do. Obviously, it could and should have been so much more. I think we are pretty unlucky that Brentford have hit record breaking form at the wrong time. I think players such as Brunt have been under used just when a calm head and quality passer of the ball have been desperately needed.
Brentford and Leeds seem to have a clear plan and know exactly how they are going to approach games whilst Bilic is still chopping and changing every game with both system and personnel. He seems to change formation based on the opposition. Why? We have been top 2 for most of the season. We should have our own game plan and stick to it regardless of opponent.
Most concerning thing for me now is whether Bilic can pick the players up mentally. They look drained. They are simply not the same players that we have seen for most of the season. Lack of character in the side telling in recent weeks as well. I think we are now looking at play-offs and i hate to sound too negative but unless Bilic can quickly get a handle on this, we stand little chance of promotion in my opinion.
Manager and players crumbled last night. Luckily for them, they will get yet another chance to put it right. Over to them now.
thoughtful insight there pal and through the red mist of anger still have a chance of promotion. Bilic needs to change personal, Brunt left back, Barry midfield with Harper and Livermore. Townsend, Sawyers And krovinovic dropped. Tulloch given a chance up top with Phillips and Kanu nowhere to be seen.
thoughtful insight there pal and through the red mist of anger still have a chance of promotion. Bilic needs to change personal, Brunt left back, Barry midfield with Harper and Livermore. Townsend, Sawyers And krovinovic dropped. Tulloch given a chance up top with Phillips and Kanu nowhere to be seen.
Never mind next season, needs to get us over line on Wednesday, plays Phillips then he's lost it. First 11 needs freshening up Townsend, Sawyers, Kanu and Phillips out. Tulloch, Harper or Barry, Brunt and Grosicki in.
Sack Bilic and resign yourself to championship struggles. Those asking for his sacking forget the Saunders years and the ten years that followed. For a change we should stick with a manager - we’ve had far worse.
Never mind next season, needs to get us over line on Wednesday, plays Phillips then he's lost it. First 11 needs freshening up Townsend, Sawyers, Kanu and Phillips out. Tulloch, Harper or Barry, Brunt and Grosicki in.
Biblical has given us a feeling for our club back something that has been missing for most of the time since the appointment of Irvine. On appointment he said it was a two year plan to get the club back into the premSo now we ask the big man in the sky for help...
So now we ask the big man in the sky for help...Probably be better than asking Zohore !!
Harper, Barry, Brunt? Dear oh dear.Wont run , can’t run and hasn’t run in ages yeah that may work !
Wont run , can’t run and hasn’t run in ages yeah that may work !
Slavens better than he gets credit for. We lost 40 goals last year and argueably our best defender. Yet we have outperformed that team. To be anywhere near the top two with the squad we have is a miracle. We own 1 premier league quality player and 1 good youngster in O'shea. If we had signed Gayle over Austin and Zohore we would have walked the league by 15 points. All in my opinion... the beauty of football.
How can you build anything at a club if you are continually chopping and changing the manager every year? Unless they clearly have had a shocker or are taking the club nowhere. It means changing everything, backroom staff, the players will probably be unsuited to the new style of play. And you can almost guarentee the same people would want it all changed again a year later.
No he isn’t. He started very well and strong midfield performances along with a HRK purple patch propelled us.
If our form for the last 6 months was over an entire season we would be finishing 10-12th and there is no way there are 6 better squads than ours, let alone 10.
I personally think his days are numbered here now regardless, as I think Friday saw a lot of fans wise up to his shortcomings and he lost a lot of the grace he may have had.
If we go up and he doesn’t start well pressure and questions will follow very quickly and if we don’t go up now, I think his position is untenable as he will have ballsed it up, been given a lifeline and ballsed it up again!
Luckily, the decisions on his future will be made by the guys above him that know what their talking about... and not short minded deluded fans.
A win against QPR and Bilic has achieved his objective of getting the club promoted. I don’t recall hearing about any long term plans that involved Slaven after that.
If he achieves it, pay the man his bonus and pay up the remainder of his contract too. Shake hands and terminate the contract under mutual consent.
Slaven isn’t the right man to take us forward in the Premiership. Don’t wait until Christmas as by then it’ll probably be too late.
A win against QPR and Bilic has achieved his objective of getting the club promoted. I don’t recall hearing about any long term plans that involved Slaven after that.
If he achieves it, pay the man his bonus and pay up the remainder of his contract too. Shake hands and terminate the contract under mutual consent.
Slaven isn’t the right man to take us forward in the Premiership. Don’t wait until Christmas as by then it’ll probably be too late.
A win against QPR and Bilic has achieved his objective of getting the club promoted. I don’t recall hearing about any long term plans that involved Slaven after that.
If he achieves it, pay the man his bonus and pay up the remainder of his contract too. Shake hands and terminate the contract under mutual consent.
Slaven isn’t the right man to take us forward in the Premiership. Don’t wait until Christmas as by then it’ll probably be too late.
If Bilic does not get us promoted there is no logical argument to change coach. We are at the half way stage of a two year project we achieved the minimum requirement with this squad which is a play-off place. The squad is geared up to play the way he wants it to and there is very little scope for significant changes to that squad. Equally there is very little chance of the club attracting a coach who is of an obviously higher calibre.
Conversely or maybe even perversely there is an argument for firing him if he gets us promoted. First of all on the face of it the task has changed. It is no longer about getting promoted it is about staying in the Premier League. Is Bilic the best coach for that task? Absolutely not.
The formula for maximising the chances of staying in the Division is quite clear deep sitting block grind out results pat yourselves on the back when you get to 40 points. It could be argued that Pulis is the best man for that job and Pulis is available. Partisan is right if you are going to go do that at Christmas you might as well as do it now because that gets you the best chance of sucess.
It might not come as a surprise that I reject this notion, the worst possible footballing fate is the hollowed out bottom half Premier Club desperately grinding out points for no other reason to cling to the Premier League golden tit. ******** to that lets play some football give it out best shot if it works great if it don't we have lost nothing. Is Bilic the best man for that job I really can't think of a better one.
There is plenty of logic to getting rid if we don’t go up. As you said, there is no scope for significant change to the squad, and he’s shown he cannot get them to perform. So the way to get significant change is to change the manager.
I don’t understand how being geared to how he wants to play is a saving grace either. If he even has a clear and obviously way of playing (does he?) Pereira and Diangana are both key and both probably leave.
Sorry 80 odd points is getting this team to perform regardless of what happens from here there are a lot of worse outcomes available.
Bilic does have a clear and consistent style of play and I can't understand why you think he doesn't.
A win against QPR and Bilic has achieved his objective of getting the club promoted. I don’t recall hearing about any long term plans that involved Slaven after that.
If he achieves it, pay the man his bonus and pay up the remainder of his contract too. Shake hands and terminate the contract under mutual consent.
Slaven isn’t the right man to take us forward in the Premiership. Don’t wait until Christmas as by then it’ll probably be too late.
Well said.
A few online fans who seem to think that a par performance this season was to finish first or second and anything else deserves a P45. The same bunch who give Bilic no credit for building up a massive lead and yet pelters for throwing it all away, delusional.
Slavens better than he gets credit for. We lost 40 goals last year and argueably our best defender. Yet we have outperformed that team. To be anywhere near the top two with the squad we have is a miracle. We own 1 premier league quality player and 1 good youngster in O'shea. If we had signed Gayle over Austin and Zohore we would have walked the league by 15 points. All in my opinion... the beauty of football.
Gayle was out injured until just before Xmas. With the best will in the world he wouldn’t have contributed more than Austin and Zohore for the first 4 months of the season!
I truly despair at some of the comments suggesting we get rid of Bilic. This time last year we’d have bitten anyone’s hands off to be in this current situation. The aim on appointing him was “promotion in 2 yearsâ€.
There isn’t a single manager in the works who is perfect. If they were, then rest assured they wouldn’t be at the Hawthorns. Should Leeds have sacked Bielsa after bottling it last season? Every manager makes mistakes. It’s how they learn from those mistakes which counts. Players make far more mistakes! Bilic has had to rebuild a squad, lost 40 goals a season and was not given adequate replacements. He’s got a keeper who has lost confidence. Why does anyone think another manager would have dealt with those issues any better?
He’s been a breath of fresh air after the shambles of the last 3 years with previous managers. Whatever happens, I for one would like to see him here next season and appropriately backed to sign what he needs. For those who don’t agree, be careful what you wish for.
Luckily, the decisions on his future will be made by the guys above him that know what their talking about... and not short minded deluded fans.A couple of things....firstly because you don’t agree doesn’t mean that the poster is either “short minded†or “deludedâ€
But who would have been playing up front for us before Xmas if we’d signed Gayle (instead of Austin and Zohore) and he was out injured for months? I’m really not sure you’ve thought that through.
I truly despair at some of the comments suggesting we get rid of Bilic. This time last year we’d have bitten anyone’s hands off to be in this current situation. The aim on appointing him was “promotion in 2 yearsâ€.
There isn’t a single manager in the works who is perfect. If they were, then rest assured they wouldn’t be at the Hawthorns. Should Leeds have sacked Bielsa after bottling it last season? Every manager makes mistakes. It’s how they learn from those mistakes which counts. Players make far more mistakes! Bilic has had to rebuild a squad, lost 40 goals a season and was not given adequate replacements. He’s got a keeper who has lost confidence. Why does anyone think another manager would have dealt with those issues any better?
He’s been a breath of fresh air after the shambles of the last 3 years with previous managers. Whatever happens, I for one would like to see him here next season and appropriately backed to sign what he needs. For those who don’t agree, be careful what you wish for.
It’s highly unlikely Bilic will be shown the door anyway. The Albion are too tight to pay up his contract in the event of a parting of company. How do you think we’ve ended up with Clarke, Irvine and Moore in recent years. The cheap option.
No, the albion know his ability and clearly put their trust in him. Just because a few clueless fans think sacking him would be best option if we were to be promoted.. that doesn't mean the club are being tight.
Scary what goes through some peoples heads.
No, the albion know his ability and clearly put their trust in him. Just because a few clueless fans think sacking him would be best option if we were to be promoted.. that doesn't mean the club are being tight.
Scary what goes through some peoples heads.
You’re scaring me by thinking the Albion board know what they’re doing, that the club aren’t tight and that Bilic’s ability should be trusted in.
You’re scaring me by thinking the Albion board know what they’re doing, that the club aren’t tight and that Bilic’s ability should be trusted in.
Big job starts now, his team selection worked well, just needed a bit of run of the ball and we would have won comfortably.
We didnt win the game. The changes fell flat.
The changes did fall flat Robinson set up one and scored.
Anyting to further your agenda, even on I night like this. Watch the Liverpool celebrations and have a "bevvy".
Can we cut out the 'deluded' and 'crank' comments. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, it's a forum.
Sadly I think my mind is pretty much made up. I really hope I’m wrong but I don’t think he’s a manager who will keep us up for a year, let alone bring us a period of stability in the top flight.
I know promotion is great for the club, and I’m delighted with that and that longer term we should still be in a better position as even with relegation, refreshed year one parachute payments is vastly better than entering year three, but next year fills me with dread.
We didnt win the game. The changes fell flat.The poster said would have won the game not did win the game.
Indeed, believe I was threatened with a permanent ban for similar... can only hope the same standard is applied across the board.
Diangana scored and created an open goal. Right back at left back caught under the ball for the 2nd. Calamity Kyle committed himself when Livermore had already done so on the first goal. Leaving scorer with a clear sight of a goal guarded by someone who concedes for fun.
We were reliant on 23rd beating 3rd.
How did they work again? No agenda.
I repeat. No agenda.
Houdini wouldn't keep the current squad-up, we obviously need to sign a new strike force and strengthen all over the pitch.
Well done to Slav and to Downing. Brilliant job to get so many decent players in through the door and to get them to gel.
I’m not saying it’s not a tough job regardless. It’s a tough job for any promoted manager. However you have to be solid to survive, and there are no signs he can do it.
He couldn’t do it with some of the more talented players in a division, what chance has he got with one of the most limited sides.
Interesting comment from Slav in his post match interview about next year..saying that most of the squad for next year would come from the current squad. Wonder if that was a subtle hint to the board that he needs to recruit and also not wishing to be disingenuous to those who have just got us promoted..
Why not wait and see what transfers happen, and how we play before writing the manager off? We only got promoted an hour ago, and our own fans are moaning ffs.
Why not wait and see what transfers happen, and how we play before writing the manager off? We only got promoted an hour ago, and our own fans are moaning ffs.
Yeah, you couldn't make it up. Tragic, I used to hold our fan base in higher regard than most of our neighbours. Not this season.
Have you ever criticised a manager on here?
Got us promoted in his 1st season. Hopefully the board will back him.
We got promoted automatically at the first attempt an hour ago after a huge summer upheaval playing without much of a strike-force in an ultra competitive league. Bilic has done a tremendous job. You want to moan about him, in the immediate aftermath of promotion, be my guest - I just don't have any respect for you.
When you consider the quality of the team we have. Slav has done a great job. Also top of the championship for points won from losing positions. So his ingame management is spot on. Made a brave call tonight with Robinson and we looked miles better. Conceded to 2 brilliant finishes.
Honestly think that out of the level of managers we could attract he is by far the best option.. remember we have no money. For me after Hodgson the best manager since I have been watching since 1997.
Its most of the players that cause our issues not him.. in my opinion anyway.
When you consider the quality of the team we have. Slav has done a great job. Also top of the championship for points won from losing positions. So his ingame management is spot on. Made a brave call tonight with Robinson and we looked miles better. Conceded to 2 brilliant finishes.
Honestly think that out of the level of managers we could attract he is by far the best option.. remember we have no money. For me after Hodgson the best manager since I have been watching since 1997.
Its most of the players that cause our issues not him.. in my opinion anyway.
Time will tell who’s been the better judge.
he doesn’t usually last too long in a job.
99% of managers fall into that category, usually down to how trigger happy the boardroom is. Look at mental Watford sacking Pearson. It's a very precarious occupation. OGS looking decent at Utd now but finish 5th and he's under the radar. Roy at Palace is getting loads of stick, seven defeats on the bounce. Poch at Spurs was lauded as one of the best coaches in the World and then bombed out by Levy. Let's hope we have a very good transfer window, above all else I suspect recruitment will be key to how Albion and Bilic compete in the PL next season.
Time will tell? Newsflash - the season has ended and we've got automatic promotion. We can judge away at this season all we like. It's finished and I'm delighted with the job Slav has done and the success the club has achieved.
I'll judge next season in its own right on the signings, performances and results.
Fair argument, although I’d expect to see atleast 1 club where you have a decent length of time (Poch has a few years at Spurs plus he was poached for 2 different jobs).
The recruitment will be huge over the next 2 months, all eyes in Dowling.
Next season is brand new and will be difficult. If we can't support our team now when we've just won promotion I dread to think what some of you will be like next season.
This is his big chance to really get his career going, but I'm not sure he has much other than charisma and passion. We shall see.
Sadly I think my mind is pretty much made up. I really hope I’m wrong but I don’t think he’s a manager who will keep us up for a year, let alone bring us a period of stability in the top flight.
I know promotion is great for the club, and I’m delighted with that and that longer term we should still be in a better position as even with relegation, refreshed year one parachute payments is vastly better than entering year three, but next year fills me with dread.
Lists already drawn up depending on whether we went up or not according to local journos so let's see how quickly the board act.
Let me nail my colours to the Bilic mast. Just picking up on few comments earlier in the thread.
Bilic can walk away from football tomorrow and have enjoyed a better career as a player and coach than most have had. He isn't going to handed the keys to one of the elite clubs that moment if it ever existed has passed but he will never be short of a job if he wants one.
Charisma cuts very little ice with me and passion even less. Yet he has a style I like he plays with attacking intent which is pretty much all I ask.
You are right. Bilic is absolutely not a grind out 40 points type coach. If the club wants that they need to fire Bilic in the next few days and get in whichever dull as ditch water coach to oversee operation survival. Don't wait until Christmas do it before the window opens so we can build a squad equipped for the task.
However blow that for a game soldiers if we survive with Bilic it will be by the seat of our pants we might fail but at least we will be do so trying to play football.
When will Albion fans stop being such timorous wee creatures? Embrace the rollercoaster love the rollercoaster and just see how things go.
The timing of transfers will in most cases be out of our control. Players and their agents hold the power and unfortunately we are going to near the bottom of their shopping list, so a lot of our targets will be holding out moves to bigger clubs and may then come available down the line as all the transfers play out. It's like one big game of dominos and we are down at the back of the pack. That said it's not clear what is going to happen with the transfer window, restart date and football finances all up in the air. We might have a bigger pool of players to pick from.
In our favour Bilic is a players manager and has got some good contacts - it's not like we've got Neil Warnock in charge. A lot of players would genuinely want to play for Bilic and I'd like to think that some of our players like Krov could be more suited to the PL with more rest time between matches.
Falling over the line with 8 wins in 24 is tremendous? He’s did incredibly well to get two of the players on loan who turned out to be two off the most talented players in the division. He won’t be able to do that next year and so needs to get something from a limited bunch.
The timing of my opinion is of no relevance to its validity.
Time will tell who’s been the better judge. If you only see the problems when results ram them home (8 in 24 should a little), then your the ones who’s opinion on football deserves no respect.
I’m not after a return to Pulis or a Pulis type, the difference is you think Bilic might do a job of keeping us up. I sadly don’t think he will get us anywhere close.
Let me nail my colours to the Bilic mast. Just picking up on few comments earlier in the thread.
Bilic can walk away from football tomorrow and have enjoyed a better career as a player and coach than most have had. He isn't going to handed the keys to one of the elite clubs that moment if it ever existed has passed but he will never be short of a job if he wants one.
Charisma cuts very little ice with me and passion even less. Yet he has a style I like he plays with attacking intent which is pretty much all I ask.
You are right. Bilic is absolutely not a grind out 40 points type coach. If the club wants that they need to fire Bilic in the next few days and get in whichever dull as ditch water coach to oversee operation survival. Don't wait until Christmas do it before the window opens so we can build a squad equipped for the task.
However blow that for a game soldiers if we survive with Bilic it will be by the seat of our pants we might fail but at least we will be do so trying to play football.
When will Albion fans stop being such timorous wee creatures? Embrace the rollercoaster love the rollercoaster and just see how things go.
Great job done Slaven. At the end of last season when we lost Dawson, Rodriguez, Gayle, Holgate and the rest of them etc I have to be honest I thought we would do well to get playoffs. Yes we faltered over Christmas ans post covid. But over 46 games we were the second best team. Well done Slaven, I could see what it meant to you and im proud for you to be our manager
I agree with you Johnny Cash.
I’m relieved we’ve been promoted because the clubs financial future was depending on it. Jake Livermore echoed this in his post-match interview when he confirmed staff jobs were on the line.
Some big decisions need to be made about the plan of action for next season because it’s going to get a whole lot tougher.
But for now, let us relax and enjoy the end to a very arduous season.
Let me nail my colours to the Bilic mast. Just picking up on few comments earlier in the thread.
Bilic can walk away from football tomorrow and have enjoyed a better career as a player and coach than most have had. He isn't going to handed the keys to one of the elite clubs that moment if it ever existed has passed but he will never be short of a job if he wants one.
Charisma cuts very little ice with me and passion even less. Yet he has a style I like he plays with attacking intent which is pretty much all I ask.
You are right. Bilic is absolutely not a grind out 40 points type coach. If the club wants that they need to fire Bilic in the next few days and get in whichever dull as ditch water coach to oversee operation survival. Don't wait until Christmas do it before the window opens so we can build a squad equipped for the task.
However blow that for a game soldiers if we survive with Bilic it will be by the seat of our pants we might fail but at least we will be do so trying to play football.
When will Albion fans stop being such timorous wee creatures? Embrace the rollercoaster love the rollercoaster and just see how things go.
Pretty obvious you have formed a bubble with JC😁
The season with Slav:
-Fewest defeats (7)
-Joint-most goals scored at HOME (44G)
-Fewest AWAY goals conceded (18)
-Longest unbeaten run (14 games)
-Most comeback victories (6)
The season with Slav:
-Fewest defeats (7)
-Joint-most goals scored at HOME (44G)
-Fewest AWAY goals conceded (18)
-Longest unbeaten run (14 games)
-Most comeback victories (6)
An honest man, but still struggling
An honest man, but still struggling
Hi Stan, agree with most of that.
What do you make of the contrast between the first 23 games and the 2nd? Is this a normal fluctuation or something Bilić can never arrest?
Hi Stan, agree with most of that.
What do you make of the contrast between the first 23 games and the 2nd? Is this a normal fluctuation or something Bilić can never arrest?
I know people are entitled to their opinion but really some fans? opinions stagger me.
This coach has brought a freshness an attacking younger team,we all know some players limitations,do you think Slav doesn't know that?
Knowing that is an even bigger achievement, top 2 since September, last years failure,he's gone one better than that.
He and the powers that be will know what to do to improve with what money is available don't worry about that.
The openness and honesty and his name around Europe will entice players to come ,younger eager faster skillful players,just wait and see what happens he might even win some of you over.
Well done Slav brilliant job.
There's no joy in some eyes.
You said we were awful, mentally weak and losers on Friday?
Now following a 2-2 draw against a terrible QPR and a reprieve only by the grace of stoke, Barnsley and Brentford performances and opinions stagger you? Seems fickle.
It might be a struggle but on the other hand..
- We have a midfield that will enjoy this much more than the championship.
Just seen a couple of Twitter references to Slaven and Partizan and hints at a problem or issue have I missed something?not finding anything, you got a linky?
Just seen a couple of Twitter references to Slaven and Partizan and hints at a problem or issue have I missed something?
Surprise surprise Slav overlooked for manager of the season by his fellow managers in favour of Bielsa :(
Personally i am chuffed we have him and looking forward to seeing what he does next season.
My last memories of the premier league are three years of boredom and just grinding results, there is more to football than that to me.
I have no doubt we will be predicted as one of the strugglers and there is every chance that will be the case but i think under Bilic we will approach games in a positive manner.
He picked up a club that had lost to one of its local rivals who then went to go up via Wembley, he lost 40+ goals, he inherited a goalkeeper and defence that was shaky to say the least and then had to stamp some sort of identity on a team that had losts its way for months prior to it.
I think we also have to take into account the COVID, yes it was the same for everyone but Bielsas teams are usually known for running out of steam (not just Leeds last season, its happened prior with other teams of his) yet as we were approaching the last two months of the season, COVID strikes.
Bielsas team playing a unique high tempo of football and with the COVID they get a three month break and i think they came back refreshed and able to play the football he wanted and rightly won the league as the best team, i think it may of been different with no COVID.
Same with Brentford, they were the little fairytale story, everyone loved them, they had a free hit because nobody had Brentford to be doing so well, yet they gelled, played great football and put an amazing run together, the pressure was off most of the time, yet when the pressure fell on them, they bottled it losing 2 games against struggling teams.
Fulham have arguably the best individuals yet finished 4th, so i think all things considering Slav has done great.
I think he has made some errors as we all do, there were times we could of tried a different approach (prime example, when we were playing teams who came to defend, we usually had lots of pace on our wings anyway, i think he could of played Brunty at left back in those games, we already had enough pace, but try something different who has more quality on the ball) but all managers have their hinderances.
I think the biggest issue Bilic may have next season is he seems a very intense coach, towards the end at West Ham he looked a broken man because i think he is an all or nothing man so when things arent going well, it gets to him, if we are struggling next season, have a run of defeats, thats when then the test will be, not necessarily the team as i think its expected but how he personally reacts to it.
But i look forward to seeing what happens with him in charge.
I don’t dislike Slav
This is a forum for opinions and having one shouldn’t mean that you must take sides....
I know it’s been a very VERY long season, we played some good stuff, we had games when we were woeful.
Whilst I honestly have got the buzz back, I feel it’s also fair to point out a couple of things.
Man manager YES....master tactician NO, he still doesn’t know his best 11...
JOHNSTONE ......?
Napoleon said don’t bring me a good general, bring me a lucky one ....and without knocking the achievement of promotion, we have had some fortune upon the way ..
It’s great to win....but it almost feels like we have just took the prize for how many burgers you can eat...and been presented with a huge rack of ribs ....we had to go up ££££....but I’ll miss championship 19/20.
Surprise surprise Slav overlooked for manager of the season by his fellow managers in favour of Bielsa :(
I don’t dislike SlavHe was stuck with Johnstone. Other options worse.
This is a forum for opinions and having one shouldn’t mean that you must take sides....
I know it’s been a very VERY long season, we played some good stuff, we had games when we were woeful.
Whilst I honestly have got the buzz back, I feel it’s also fair to point out a couple of things.
Man manager YES....master tactician NO, he still doesn’t know his best 11...
JOHNSTONE ......?
Napoleon said don’t bring me a good general, bring me a lucky one ....and without knocking the achievement of promotion, we have had some fortune upon the way ..
It’s great to win....but it almost feels like we have just took the prize for how many burgers you can eat...and been presented with a huge rack of ribs ....we had to go up ££££....but I’ll miss championship 19/20.
We don't have a midfield. We have Livermore and Sawyers. That's it. They are not going to keep us going all season.One of the most interesting sights in the on-pitch celebrations last week was the sight of Slaven having a word with Harper and Edwards away from the main celebrations. I don't think he'll have been telling them they are going out on loan, probably that they have a chance to pitch for a squad and team place in the prem. I think he rates them both but expects players to impose themselves on games which both can do but not often enough.
I will be amazed if Harper is even considered for the Premier League, a loan away surely likely?
Krovinovic's loan has ended. We may get him back, we may not. By no means certain.
Field will return from his Charlton loan. Considering Bilic was quick to loan him out in the first place, I'd be surprised if he figures next season. Another loan? Maybe a move permanently?
Barry is out of contract and wont get another one and Brunty as we know is leaving.
Midfield is a problem area.
I don't understand why Slav gets criticised for Johnstone (or the forwards) Slav inherited them (except Zohore) and will be as fed up as we are when balls bounce off SJ's knees or our 6 yard box seems to have been vacated by the keeper, he will be doing all he can to get the club to improve the obviously weakest areas of the squad BUT at the end of the process who the club signs is outside of his control.Because he had January.....and he had bond
Because he had January.....and he had bond
If you really belive that all signings are beyond his control, why are Pererira / Krov being hailed has his signings?
Are you referencing the member on here, Partisan Baggie, who suggested we get rid of Bilic as he won't get us up?
Because he had January.....and he had bond
If you really belive that all signings are beyond his control, why are Pererira / Krov being hailed has his signings?
I feel sure he has to rubber stamp them, but he will not do the identification, selection, interviewing, contract negotiation ...... The club has done a lot of good in the last 12 months and made some mistakes (in my opinion) BUT you cannot lay everything at Slav's door. (Good or Bad).If you read my original post I was being balanced and was not laying everything at Slavs door....but a great manager would not just put up with that keeper surely?
A well run club will change over a few transfer windows, not try to change wholesale in one January window. It sounds like you are in the "splash the cash, be super-ambishush and damn the consequenses camp, which this club is not, thank god
Just seen a couple of Twitter references to Slaven and Partizan and hints at a problem or issue have I missed something?
If you read my original post I was being balanced and was not laying everything at Slavs door....but a great manager would not just put up with that keeper surely?
We don't have a midfield. We have Livermore and Sawyers. That's it. They are not going to keep us going all season.
I will be amazed if Harper is even considered for the Premier League, a loan away surely likely?
Krovinovic's loan has ended. We may get him back, we may not. By no means certain.
Field will return from his Charlton loan. Considering Bilic was quick to loan him out in the first place, I'd be surprised if he figures next season. Another loan? Maybe a move permanently?
Barry is out of contract and wont get another one and Brunty as we know is leaving.
Midfield is a problem area.
I would point out that Sam Field has played Premier League football, he deserves a chance like others, a squad player maybe, but he is a West Brom player and an option.
I would point out that Sam Field has played Premier League football, he deserves a chance like others, a squad player maybe, but he is a West Brom player and an option.Why “deserved�
A valid point but, in my personal opinion, he will not make it as a premier league player.Yep, think it will be a story of what could have been. Obviously talented but never really commanded any specific position or style.
Why “deserved�
Strange reply!He has spent a large portion of the current championship season injured, I would be more inclined to send him out on loan again.
If you put the effort in at work and your managers see's that you are worth trying in a more senior position, have you not earned that chance for a shot in a more senior position?
Same with a footballer, if he's put the effort in in training then the footballer has earned a chance tp perform in the first team.
Jo Masi Twitter Account
A two hour video interview with Slaven Bilic aired in Croatia last night thanks to news outlet Index HR. During it he discussed his interest in signing Filip Krovinovic, Mislav Orsic and Ivo Grbic.
Details here:
Source: https://expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/08/18/west-brom-boss-slaven-bilic-talks-grbic-orsic-and-krovinovic/ #wba
Makes for truly awful reading. Billic wasnt happy within days of joining us last summer. Sounds as though he isn't best pleased now either.5Can't do a job without decent tools , not good to read .
Makes for truly awful reading. Billic wasnt happy within days of joining us last summer. Sounds as though he isn't best pleased now either.When he signed up, I think Billic would have been realistic enough to know how the club has been run and what sort of financial constraints he would have. I doubt that the board have had any sudden change of policy or are going back on any promises made. In his position, you would expect Billic to fight his corner and make it known which positions and players are priorities. It doesn't mean that he suddenly feels let down.
The board strike again.
We are in no worse a position than any other PL club. They have to pay the same as us for the COVID19 knock on effect.
The 10m player bonus was cancelled out by the 8 figure transfer surplus they said themselves that they didn't spend. Seems to have been conveniently forgotten/swept under the carpet so they can plead poverty. Awful.
It appears our strategy is to be 20th in the league for budget / investment and pray to finish 17th. Shoestring economics will be the relegation of us.that is our financial reality, like it or not
that is our financial reality, like it or not
How did Sheff Utd spend so much money last season and £18m on a keeper this summer? We would be much better off in my view allocating the PL money AND the first year parachute money to our budget this year. That would immeasurably improve our team and chances of staying up. If we got relegated we’d still have the second year parachute payment to fund the wage bill and a squad with a lot more players that would be sellable if we needed to.
I don’t see how anyone can’t expect us not to finish 20th on the current trajectory - which will mean all that effort to get back up will be wasted, again.
Yes that is what I would be doing. Just going for it. If we go down we go down but we would have a fantasic squad at EFL level .
To be passive makes no sense. We might as well [sell] Pereira now because he won't keep us up on his own and once we are relegated he is gone.
Not justifying what is happening with us or what happened at SUFC
They spent around £40million last summer - the overall spend increased with the addition of Sander Berge in January, by which point their survival was already more or less confirmed so the risk was not as great - that would largely have been off-set against their prize money which for finishing 9th was £21million.
Their financial position was much different to ours - we are reverting back to Premier League contracts whilst they were operating very much as a club who had been in league one the season before their promotion.
If I recall, I remember reading an article which stated their wage bill was around £19million when they were promoted.
That has given them the wriggle room to spend on fees - I haven't seen their latest accounts, but I think their wage bill is around £45million - ours was that in the championship !
Don't these two statements kind of contradict each other?
I've seen you quote the £10million player bonus twice now so I've checked it.
“Getting promoted cost the club nearly £20million in bonuses to players and in clauses we had to pay other clubs in transfer agreements,â€
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/08/08/player-sales-to-boost-west-brom-budget/
They have already accounted for £40million of any funds and we haven't entered pre-season training yet..
Makes for truly awful reading. Billic wasnt happy within days of joining us last summer. Sounds as though he isn't best pleased now either.You may wish to think this is truly awful reading, which would be consistent with the unwavering pessimistic tone which is found on this forum.
You may wish to think this is truly awful reading, which would be consistent with the unwavering pessimistic tone which is found on this forum.
I would rather believe that SB would have been very well aware of the paucity of money that would be injected by our distant owners, from the first discussions that he would have had with a brutally frank Jenkins. Do you really think that Slav would have stood for being conned over such a crucial issue?
ALL managers want more money/players, so would not regard Bilic as being overly disenchanted with his position at WBA.
Additionally, it would be exceptional for a Croatian interview not to focus on Croatian players irrespective of the practical reality of them signing for the Albion.
Spot on, totally agree. Great post.It should also be considered that SB was challenged to get promotion by the end of next season, by which time we would have been flat broke as parachute payments ran out, he took the job on that basis, so in some respects he is now better equipped than planned
You may wish to think this is truly awful reading, which would be consistent with the unwavering pessimistic tone which is found on this forum.
I would rather believe that SB would have been very well aware of the paucity of money that would be injected by our distant owners, from the first discussions that he would have had with a brutally frank Jenkins. Do you really think that Slav would have stood for being conned over such a crucial issue?
ALL managers want more money/players, so would not regard Bilic as being overly disenchanted with his position at WBA.
Additionally, it would be exceptional for a Croatian interview not to focus on Croatian players irrespective of the practical reality of them signing for the Albion.
Slightly off topic, just looked at the done deals on the Beeb website and there has not been a lot of business in the Premier League so far so a lot of coaches along with SB will be frustrated.The difference is that most of the other premiership teams already have squads capable of being competitive in this league. We don't.
The difference is that most of the other premiership teams already have squads capable of being competitive in this league. We don't.
Chairman promise the earth and moon to managers slash coaches when they try and lure them to club. Think Bilic was genuinely surprised at lack of funds available and I believe Jenkins jumped ship over this development. Slaven is a highly thought of coach around the footballing world and with promotion on his cv should have no problem in getting another appointment. If owner is unwilling or unable to come up with financial backing that gives him a fighting chance then would he stay?When you have one iota of fact to support your theories of Slav's surprise and Jenkin's abdication, I will start worrying. As I said earlier today, this forum has a steady drumbeat of unyielding pessimism.
Not really, if we are going to have a go keep him. If we are not sell him as he will be sold in 12 months time anyway, at least we know where we are this season and it gives the board this season to prep for next years in the EFL.
An odd take, he'll be worth about £50 million next summer as opposed to whatever Benrahma is worth now...
The E&S link isn’t working for me anymore for some reason. Did Bilic say he will do everything to sign Krovinovic again?
When you have one iota of fact to support your theories of Slav's surprise and Jenkin's abdication, I will start worrying. As I said earlier today, this forum has a steady drumbeat of unyielding pessimism.Don’t hold your breath on an answer....this is what he does ...spouts negativity and runs off.
As Albionic remarked, SB was given two seasons for promotion and would have been well versed in difficulties attached to WBA finances, and is ahead of the curve.
The self financing template has been in place for years, so why on earth would that be a valid reason for MK to quit?
Don’t hold your breath on an answer....this is what he does ...spouts negativity and runs off.
You do have to wonder why people bother to follow a team if everything is so bad?
The negativity on here is stifling at times, Z&B.It's not negativity as such. I'm sure every single one of us hopes that we have a half decent season and stay up. But realistically we will have one of the weakest squads in the league, even with 2 or 3 good additions. If Slaven manages to keep us up, he will have done a very, very good job.
Last season was a great year. Very good summer transfer window, refreshing brand of football and promotion. More than we could expect. I was delighted. The mood music for this season back in the premiership however is horrific. We appear to be showing zero ambition to retain our hard fought top flight status. Of course I may change my mind on that as the transfer window plays out but every indication so far is of the white flag being raised in favour of guaranteeing being solvent in the championship for the next two seasons.OK. Nuff said
As fans - we deserve more. Find me another premiership club who have been as dull, as boring, as pathetic at board room level and I include in that lots of clubs with similar fan bases or small clubs, all without benefactors.
It's not negativity as such. I'm sure every single one of us hopes that we have a half decent season and stay up. But realistically we will have one of the weakest squads in the league, even with 2 or 3 good additions. If Slaven manages to keep us up, he will have done a very, very good job.There is a world of difference between understanding our realistic potential
Last season was a great year. Very good summer transfer window, refreshing brand of football and promotion. More than we could expect. I was delighted. The mood music for this season back in the premiership however is horrific. We appear to be showing zero ambition to retain our hard fought top flight status. Of course I may change my mind on that as the transfer window plays out but every indication so far is of the white flag being raised in favour of guaranteeing being solvent in the championship for the next two seasons.
As fans - we deserve more. Find me another premiership club who have been as dull, as boring, as pathetic at board room level and I include in that lots of clubs with similar fan bases or small clubs, all without benefactors.
I agree with what Slav said after we got promotion .............. give the current players the chance. But one thing they cannot get away with is not buying at least 2 strikers.
We know we won't attract the top premier strikers but come on anyone who thinks we can survive with the current strike force is totally deluded.
I think everywhere else in the team some of the players could surprise us and perform in the premier but no way will we score goals with HRK, Austin and Zohore.
For me get 2 decent strikers, top championship strikers if it has to be but get someone in !!
The top Championship strikers will be out of our price range. (Watkins, Wilson etc). We'd need to look at League 1 and below or ideally abroad.
Or look at why a top championship striker is out of our price range.and do what about it?
Or look at why a top championship striker is out of our price range.
The top Championship strikers will be out of our price range. (Watkins, Wilson etc). We'd need to look at League 1 and below or ideally abroad.
Because we are skint!
We need to be investing in young up and coming players that we can move on for a profit. Something we've not really done before. Even now you look at our squad and Pereira aside we have no one else that we could make a sizeable profit on. During our long stint in the Prem we didn't manage it either. The only players we could have made good money on were Evans and Rondon and we managed to balls that up too.
Alternatively we could just accept the fact that your top League 1 strikers are being touted around at £10 million and top Championship/decent Euro league strikers are being touted around at £20 million
Of course they are, Championship & League 1 clubs have had no revenue since March, the one way they might stop in business is to sell their best players.
Doesn't mean to say anyone's going to pay that money though.
I believe most buying clubs are playing a brinkmanship game, & we'll see most of the business done in the final week of the transfer window.
If we're skint now, what will change for us to be able to compete in the Prem? (In, not 'for', lol). We've made steps to bring young players through and they get poached away by the bigger clubs. We could keep trying to find Periera's and selling them on - but that gets us nowhere.
Like it or not, our board need to step up and sanction some signings else we'll end up back to square 1. If we can't afford top championship quality players where does that leave us?
To me, it's small club mentality to think we're just 'lil old Albion, not got a pot to pee in". We've had the club tell us how important promotion is, the media tell us how much it's worth, to suddenly find ourselves no better off financially than the end of last season seems crazy.
I seem to be getting the impression from the club that getting promotion was just a financial achievement to get money into the club or should I say the owners back pocket !!This is spot on. We have to prioritise a goalscoring striker. That means if there are limited funds, forget about bringing in a centre back. Unless we want to end up with a slight upgrade on Zohore, who apparently cost £8 million.
I don't think the club ever had any intention of trying to compete in the premier league are are expecting to be relegated. They will then have the premiership money from this season and 2 seasons of parachute payments and they wouldn't have had to pay out big money on transfers. My point can be proven by the lack of activity in the transfer market.
The end of last season it was so evident that we were lacking strikers. in fact is was so bad it was embarrassing. If I was at the club that would have been number 1 priority and I would have at least got one half decent striker in by now.
If this is the case I don't think Bilic will put up with that attitude for long !
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8648859/amp/Frustrated-West-Brom-manager-Slaven-Bilic-wants-signings-ahead-new-Premier-League-season.html?__twitter_impression=true (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8648859/amp/Frustrated-West-Brom-manager-Slaven-Bilic-wants-signings-ahead-new-Premier-League-season.html?__twitter_impression=true)It would cost him, but I couldn't blame him, because of the way we dither.
Anyone think he might walk ?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8648859/amp/Frustrated-West-Brom-manager-Slaven-Bilic-wants-signings-ahead-new-Premier-League-season.html?__twitter_impression=true
Anyone think he might walk ?
If every time the media reported that manger x is frustrated by lack of transfer activity at club y and they walked out they would be going at a rate of 2 a week. They don't it is standard transfer window narrative. Rogers, Moyes, Smith, Bruce and all the poor sods in the Championship except a couple are probably frustrated are they going to walk? No they are not. Is Bilic? Probably not.
If every time the media reported that manger x is frustrated by lack of transfer activity at club y and they walked out they would be going at a rate of 2 a week. They don't it is standard transfer window narrative. Rogers, Moyes, Smith, Bruce and all the poor sods in the Championship except a couple are probably frustrated are they going to walk? No they are not. Is Bilic? Probably not.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8648859/amp/Frustrated-West-Brom-manager-Slaven-Bilic-wants-signings-ahead-new-Premier-League-season.html?__twitter_impression=true
Anyone think he might walk ?
Good job that he is back here now. Croatia has been added to the quaranteen list.Which will make it more difficult to bring in any signings he may have identified!
I seem to be getting the impression from the club that getting promotion was just a financial achievement to get money into the club or should I say the owners back pocket !!
I don't think the club ever had any intention of trying to compete in the premier league are are expecting to be relegated. They will then have the premiership money from this season and 2 seasons of parachute payments and they wouldn't have had to pay out big money on transfers. My point can be proven by the lack of activity in the transfer market.
The end of last season it was so evident that we were lacking strikers. in fact is was so bad it was embarrassing. If I was at the club that would have been number 1 priority and I would have at least got one half decent striker in by now.
If this is the case I don't think Bilic will put up with that attitude for long !
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8648859/amp/Frustrated-West-Brom-manager-Slaven-Bilic-wants-signings-ahead-new-Premier-League-season.html?__twitter_impression=trueNothing in that article to suggest so. In fact there is just nothing in the article at all really, you could spend 5 minutes on this forum and pick up all the information stated. Lazy journalism at it's worst.
Anyone think he might walk ?
So you would have got at least one decent striker in by now would you! Is this using your magic wand or rubbing your magic lamp. This is not football manager!
Ridiculous we haven't already secured Krovinovic. Slaven wants him as a high priority signing, £8m is a steal. We paid £15m for Burke, £11m for Livermore, £8m for Zohore. What are we hanging around for? Unless the board pull their finger out, I think there's serious threat of Bilic walking out during mid Winter.
Krov should be signed then we need a striker ASAP.
Livermore was £11m? :o
Said weeks ago, we would see in the transfer window the reason why Jenkins retired.
If we buy cheaply or noone, Jenkins left in order for the blame to be placed squarely at the owner's door.
I cannot see Slav going, think he has a genuine bond. He just went sign a new contract. Number one priority should be a three year deal with Slav. I wouldnt leave it until after the window, as he might be utterly **** off.
Two of the worst transfers in our history (Zohore and Burke) do not make Krovinovic a steel. Krovinovic did not make a position his own in one of the best sides in a lower division. The fact a Bilic is so set on him is a concern. If he insists we blow £8m of a limited budget on him it’s even more concerning.
Krovinovic on loan with an option to buy (or obligation only if he makes so many So many appearances) is the only sensible way to secure him if they want more than £5m.
Krovinovic is a better footballer than Sawyers and Livermore. Brentford are after £25m for Watkins, is he x3 better than Krov?
What strikers do you propose signing for the £8m? Villa paid £22m for Wesley and he's a bag of nails. As far as I can see there is no one in the lower divisions that would make the step up. We'll probably have to chance our arm on a kid from somewhere like the Swedish Premier League.
Krovinovic changed games last season from the bench. Pointless getting a striker If he's no better than what we've got.
Krovinovic is a very good player who had a bad injury and took time to get properly over it. He is a technical footballer who will be suited to the Premier League where most teams will back themselves rather than set up to stop the opposition.
He will be a big asset if we get him in.
Interesting summary of Slav on Wikipedia - speaking several languages and a degree, he’s obviously a bright fellow:
“Along with his native Croatian, Bilić is fluent in German, Italian and English, while he also holds a degree in law. As a big fan of rock music, he plays rhythm guitar with his favoured red Gibson Explorer and is a member of Rawbau, a Croatian rock band. In 2008, the band recorded a song for Croatia's performance at Euro 2008 called "Vatreno ludilo" (Fiery Madness).
After a few sticky jobs Bilic's stock is higher again now , this would be his best time to leave and to be honest I can see it happening.
Krov is right for this league and Krov is right for this squad.
That's it.
On what evidence? 25 mediocre championship appearances and 5 good ones.
Which position will he cement as his own?
After a few sticky jobs Bilic's stock is higher again now , this would be his best time to leave and to be honest I can see it happening.Have to agree with you Dexy. This is my biggest concern.
Can't help but feel sorry for Slav. Leeds and Fulham making new additions. Seems like Dowling want's to wait until the final week, which I could understand if we only needed 1-2 players but we need at least 6-7. Still not convinced by Dowling I do think he gets over hyped way too much.we will only be able judge that at the end of the window, hopefully we won't be too far behind by then, and hopefully any incomings will arrive fit and ready to go.
That's a whole lot of hoping we need to do.Hope not !
Bilic must have instilled a cracking environment with the players under his watch. Pereira happy to sign, Krovinovic desperate to come back and now Grady seems interested to join permanently or bid wouldn't have been made. Got to say the man is trying to build something here ;D
I like Slav and want him to succeed but he needs to get off to a good start as his results at the end of last season will go against him imo.
I remember being shot down for saying that players wouldn't come and play for Pulis. The usual response was that players move for money. I disagree. Slav seems a great character, man manager and plays a decent style. All of those have got to be attractive for some players.All good points.
I remember being shot down for saying that players wouldn't come and play for Pulis. The usual response was that players move for money. I disagree. Slav seems a great character, man manager and plays a decent style. All of those have got to be attractive for some players.
Correct, footballers want to 1) play games, 2) enjoy their football & 3) get as much money as possible. Any decent striker would run a mile from Pulis. Under Bilic we play football in the right manner, have a coached pattern of attack. Not surprising that the gang from last year want to carry on. Let's just hope we can get Diangana over the line as you never know in football, anything can happen.Yes, I can see the vile lot offering £20K to WHU, just to get him. WHU would then take the money, after all it is business.
Yes, I can see the vile lot offering £20K to WHU, just to get him. WHU would then take the money, after all it is business.
I dont think even West Ham would be stupid enough to accept £20k for Grady.
I dont think even West Ham would be stupid enough to accept £20k for Grady.
Bilic must have instilled a cracking environment with the players under his watch. Pereira happy to sign, Krovinovic desperate to come back and now Grady seems interested to join permanently or bid wouldn't have been made. Got to say the man is trying to build something here ;D
If we are in the middle of negotiations and he is starting to throw his toys I’d be marching him off the premises in the morning.
I know plenty on here think he’s Corberan...I think he’s ok ,but you cannot have a manager being grumpy in the media without consequences.
If we are in the middle of negotiations and he is starting to throw his toys I’d be marching him off the premises in the morning.
I know plenty on here think he’s Corberan...I think he’s ok ,but you cannot have a manager being grumpy in the media without consequences.
If we are in the middle of negotiations and he is starting to throw his toys I’d be marching him off the premises in the morning.One of the worst posts ever....Go dunk your head in a bucket of cold water! I like a manager with fire in him!
I know plenty on here think he’s Corberan...I think he’s ok ,but you cannot have a manager being grumpy in the media without consequences.
It’s how managers are, you cannot blame Slav for these words it’s because he cares and it’s a fair reflection on how the fans are feeling. Would you prefer a yes man? Alan Irvine perhaps?I fail to see how him being publicly unhappy is going to help us negotiate a deal for a player that he wants ?
Slav got this team promoted and was our chief scout last summer with Pereira. Without Slav the club would not be premier league. At worst we’ve extended 2-3 years of competing and at best we’re back on our way to being an established top flight club. That’s more than ‘ok’ in my book. .
One of the worst posts ever....Go dunk your head in a bucket of cold water! I like a manager with fire in him!It’s great that you do like him, I didn’t say I didn’t...but he’s not perfect and me stating that he should (publicly) toe the line ...does not make my post “the worst everâ€
I fail to see how him being publicly unhappy is going to help us negotiate a deal for a player that he wants ?
Slav was in charge when we went up...I’d consider that other managers may have gained promotion earlier and at least been able to retain top spot when we had an eleven point gap.
I’m glad you feel that it’s more than ok ...that’s you opinion, to which you are entitled as am I .
Zippy he's unhappy because he's not going to get the players he wants.I have no objection to him being unhappy....but if he is being open in the media about it, teams like Huddersfield will know and stick to their asking price hoping that we won’t want to risk upsetting the manager even more...it’s a naive thing to do.
We've spent 12m on Diangana, Button and Kipre were around 1.3m combined and got 1m for Leko. Which is a net spend of £12.3m. If we get Grant that will probably be about 13-14m guaranteed so thats £26m combined and apart from loans we are done by the sounds of it.
I understand we may have to pay Sheff Utd some money for Burke but thats only if Burke hits his targets.
I have no objection to him being unhappy....but if he is being open in the media about it, teams like Huddersfield will know and stick to their asking price hoping that we won’t want to risk upsetting the manager even more...it’s a naive thing to do.
In real terms his grumpiness could cost 2-3 million.....which could go towards someone else he wants?
I get you’ve taken a bit of a pasting for your post, but for what it’s worth at no point in my reply did I say you weren’t entitled to your opinion nor did do try to imply it. It’s interesting that you seem to judge Slav for not winning the league in his first year. High expectations indeed.I can more than cope with a few baggies disagreeing with me....I should bloody hope some do too otherwise we live in vanilla land
In Super Slav I Trust.
He doesn't get to choose who he wants though mate, his comments about Button and Kipre remind me of the Zohore situation.You cannot have the cake and eat it
He doesn't get to choose who he wants though mate, his comments about Button and Kipre remind me of the Zohore situation.Exactly. We need Slaven, but his treatment of players is often questionable if he has not personally recommended the player.
Exactly. We need Slaven, but his treatment of players is often questionable if he has not personally recommended the player.
When Cedric Kipre's arrival was announced, his interviewer asked Cedric if he had met Slaven or spoken to him. Cedric's response "no not yet" even though he had known of Albion's interest for a month.
That is not what I expect of the Albion manager, and it is indeed a repeat of the Zohore scenario.
One of the worst posts ever....Go dunk your head in a bucket of cold water! I like a manager with fire in him!
You cannot have the cake and eat it
Either he does get a say (Krov/Pererira) or he doesn’t
You cannot be half pregnant ?
If we spend anywhere in the region of £14m on Grant and £5m on Krov, which I still expect to happen, our total expenditure will be something like £35m (excluding Pereira) plus future incentives.
In the circumstances thats probably around what could have reasonably been expected. If he doesn’t like it, he maybe needs to look at what seems to have been his own insistence we get the gang back together.
He says who he wants and then the board see if they can afford them, ifd they cant they buy people he doesnt want which pisses him off because he doesnt want them and they use up the budget so he can't get others he may have got. It's pretty straight forward mate
I have no issue if they can't afford a player what i'm 1000000000% against is the board buying players he does not want. It's bad for everyone concerned and a complete waste of time, money and effort. See Zohore.
If we can't afford who the manager wants KEEP THE MONEY!! For a board so frugal and cost conscious they don't half waste money.
I have no issue if they can't afford a player what i'm 1000000000% against is the board buying players he does not want. It's bad for everyone concerned and a complete waste of time, money and effort. See Zohore.In an ideal world maybe
If we can't afford who the manager wants KEEP THE MONEY!! For a board so frugal and cost conscious they don't half waste money.
I don’t see anything wrong with what he has said.I would be annoyed too if I was the Billic. It really is simple, all of following three possible signings: Batshuayi, Deeney and Grant are better than Zohore, Austin and Robson Kanu. The more we have of the first three and less of the latter, the more chance we have of staying up. You don't have to be Klopp or Guardiola to work that out. In my opinion we will be relegated if we don't replace at least two of our existing strikers with the quality of the three I mentioned.
I’m sure he’s annoyed at our transfer stance, but I see nothing wrong with what he said about Kipre
I don’t think anyone is suggesting Bilic can’t be annoyed. Of course he can.How do you retain you own counsel if you know that your team will be relegated if your bosses won't buy enough good players ?
For me and I think for others the issue is that he seems to be displaying this publicly. He is a senior figure at the club, a man with a lot of responsibility and in my opinion should keep his counsel on many matters.
If players were in the media showing a little descent I’m sure he wouldn’t like it but perhaps he feels he is savvy enough to play the media and angle some pressure. Managers at times can act just as petulant as some players. The fact he has referred to himself as a psychologist before suggests he knows exactly what he is doing and how his body language will be read.
Again, many won’t mind but I’d personally prefer he didn’t. I like a manager to keep themselves to a higher standard but that’s just me.
It’s a shame, because most of the time I get the impression his standards are very high, so he just lets himself down a little. In my opinion of course.
How do you retain you own counsel if you know that your team will be relegated if your bosses won't buy enough good players ?
He’s not a child who wants a new PlayStation game and but doesn’t understand and cannot comprehend that his parents cannot afford it.Have to agree with you here Johnny Cash. Bilic is acting like a spoilt child and, whether he wanted Kipre or not, his job is to coach every player to the best of his ability in order to make them the best that they can be. To cold shoulder him, is childish and disrespectful.
He is manager of a football team from a working class area in West Bromwich, that doesn’t have a benefactor and has had its finances impacted by a global pandemic.
Relegation will be a genuine threat to us for us whenever we are in the top flight unless something dramatic happens.
Absolutely agree if he really didn’t want Kipre we shouldn’t have signed him. However I can’t agree if he wants the club to spend what it hasn’t got
Have to agree with you here Johnny Cash. Bilic is acting like a spoilt child and, whether he wanted Kipre or not, his job is to coach every player to the best of his ability in order to make them the best that they can be. To cold shoulder him, is childish and disrespectful.
He's been around the game long enough for none of our situation to come as a surprise. In fact, the biggest surprise of the window was getting Diangana as i don't think anyone expected that!
We are 2 days away from a massive game and the anticipation and excitement was building nicely, with even the odd bit of optimism thrown in, but this sulky petulance has a really negative affect, not only on us fans, but also, surely, the players (especially poor old Cedric!). For someone who talks so passionately about psychology, he should, frankly, know better.
How has he cold shouldered him?I was referring to Kipre's quote that he hadn't spoken to him.
The report literally states that he said he has been very good in training, but that he wasnt a prime target, of course he wasnt a prime target, the guy has come from a side relegated to L1. He was just stating the obvious.
The whole manager in conflict with board narrative is incredibly tiresome and nothing he said in the interview was overly critical of the board. Yes we need additions to the squad and everybody knows we are trying to bring players in. The process is frustrating but with a limited budget and Bilic knows what the situation at first hand it is always going to be.The fact that we are all talking about it, 2 days before, what should be a really special game, is what's tiresome. It just puts a damper on things :'(
Those of you who express their frustration with the lack of signings on an hourly basis can hang their hat on his comments fine but in truth he is not throwing his toys out of the pram. There is every indication he has a good working relationship with his employers and yes he won't get exactly wants but he also knows that and does not expect otherwise.
I don't really know what the fuss is about. Just as in any job, anyone worth their salt will want to point out where improvements are needed and I don't think anyone was expecting Billic to be a 'yes man'. I can't see there are any major problems between Billic and anyone else at the club. Obviously it depends on what was promised when he originally took the job, but I very much doubt Jenkins talked as though he would have the same budget as longer established Prem clubs. Its not how the club has been run and Billic will have been aware of that.
To present a united front does not make him a yes man or mean he cannot look for improvements. In my opinion you keep something’s in house though. On the eve of the season we’d be better with some positively.
Bilic knows what he’s doing, I don’t think he’s often flippant. The fact He can do it shows it’s not like other jobs as most people don’t have a public forum. Try insinuating you’re aren’t happy with your employer on linkedin, see what happens.
Is it the worst thing, no. Is it reasonably for some to just prefer a manager did things a little differently, yes that’s fine too.
Apparently we do not have a big budget and I know we have apparently off loaded Burke but how can we spend our money and give him a 5 year contract on a player who has little physicality and can't get in Sheffield united or Ireland's team?
I presume you're talking about Callum Robinson? I thought he did okay today, played 60 minutes and was fed scraps. Some good movement pulled into the channels and got in-behind Leicester twice in the first half. Austin couldn't play that role and HRK was a disaster in his 30 minutes.Good post, agree with that, Callum was our best option up top today, and did O.K
Robinson may have been our best option today which just goes to show how poor we are up front.
Surely we could have bought a better player with the money we have spent on him and remember we have got to watch him for the next five years.
Seems a pleasant chap but what does he offer?
Robinson may have been our best option today which just goes to show how poor we are up front.
Surely we could have bought a better player with the money we have spent on him and remember we have got to watch him for the next five years.
Seems a pleasant chap but what does he offer?
Do you not think we would have bought better if we could have?
This isn’t football manager, clubs are demanding silly amounts for bang average strikers who won’t guarantee us goals.... then even if the club are willing to pay, the player has to agree to join.
Until we actually finalise a deal for a better option to play as our main striker, Robinson is the best we have... like someone has already said he was fed off scraps. He can get himself around 10 times better than Austin and with the performances we have seen from HRK over the years he more than likely can finish better than HRK.
I agree we need someone more prolific upfront but it’s not always as simple as getting what you want.
That's the thing, while it isn't as simple as football manager, the experts we bring in to the club to navigate the difficult transfer market really set us back last summer when it came to strikers. You need to get your transfer strategy spot on when at a club with our finite resources and you need more hits than misses.I think the fair counter to that is the money was invested last year with the job (because it was pretty urgent) of getting is in to the prem ....so if there were a time machine, would the club have done it again with HRK/zohore/Austin,if the outlay and future wage burden would guarantee promotion....I’d say they would
We spent around £11m on strikers last summer and yet at the end of this window they will be our 4th and 5th choice options. The most expensive one is desperately being flogged by the club to whoever will have him (likely on subsidised wages) while the other is in the twilight of his career, coming off the back of a fairly subdued season.
For the 13 goals they added last season, we could have probably spent half of it on younger options from abroad/lower league/the PL2 who at worst would have added around 6 goals each, but might have ended up having far more successful seasons. Instead, we are where we are now, needing to spend money on Robinson as an option to make up for our previous mistakes.
Good transfer strategy looks 2 or 3 years down the line, not just one season at a time like we have done up to this point.
I think the fair counter to that is the money was invested last year with the job (because it was pretty urgent) of getting is in to the prem ....so if there were a time machine, would the club have done it again with HRK/zohore/Austin,if the outlay and future wage burden would guarantee promotion....I’d say they would
That presupposes we wouldn't have got promption without Zohore and Austin. The 13 goals they added work out at just over 6 goals per player. It's reasonable to assume that lower cost, younger options would likely have managed that as a minimum with the service our creative players provided (it's a really low bar), but the up side is they might have done even better and they would have both been better value for money and would have resale value/potential to step up to the premier league.But you are looking at it with hindsight
Without going too far down the rabbit hole, the point is that those 2 signings not only have held us back this summer, they actually didn't add enough last season to justify the difficulties they have caused us now. It was poor business all round, its a failure of those in charge of our recruitment.
But you are looking at it with hindsight
I know there contribution didn’t really have a much better impact than a couple of cheaper options...but at the time the board thought it made sense to put the money down....and the final result was the one they wanted .
I think there is a big over reaction to yesterday!Lets not forget we were awful at the point RDM got sacked and looked dead certs to go down until Roy arrived.
I was really happy with how things were at half time. Granted, they had a couple of chances but you come to expect that and it's first game of the season.
The second half was disappointing and highlighted where we need to strengthen but no more.
It highlighted that Bartley is stupid, O'Shea needs experience and the spine needs improving.
Ivanovic will be in for Bartley and hopefully Kipre will play a part in back 3's but I cant see Hegazi coming in now if Bilic wants to pick Bartley ahead of him.
He took Sawyers off - he ackonowledged that necessity to improve in that area i feel. We're actively trying to get Grant and hopefully another while shifting older players (Zohore and hopefully HRK too).
Our starting 11 will be better and we will have better days.
A few seasons ago we lost 6-0 on the opening day to Chelsea and that season didn't end so badly.
Yes I acknowledge that there is work to be done and there are questions as to that being done but the Diangana transfer surprised us all so I hope there are more surprises to come...
It’s judging the results of the transfer business. You can only assess the result of an event once it’s finished and the result was that Dowling/the recruitment team got it wrong. Those mistakes are now making things more difficult as a direct consequence. You have to hope that they learn from this and start planning a bit further ahead and improve their decision making.
But you are looking at it with hindsight
I know there contribution didn’t really have a much better impact than a couple of cheaper options...but at the time the board thought it made sense to put the money down....and the final result was the one they wanted .
I think the fair counter to that is the money was invested last year with the job (because it was pretty urgent) of getting is in to the prem ....so if there were a time machine, would the club have done it again with HRK/zohore/Austin,if the outlay and future wage burden would guarantee promotion....I’d say they would
In terms of the head coach, last week I posted about how he shouldn’t public voice his unhappiness , because by doing so 2 things happen...
1) he says he is frustrated that we haven’t sorted player x in to the club yet= player x,s club put the price up
2) in over a century of football, the amount of managers that have gone to war with a board and won.....will be in the minority...never enter a fight you can’t win.
Again today some strange choices and observations
352 seemed ok , when we went to 442 we looked bad
IMO....we need Livermore and sawyers out of this team....then Bartley ...and whilst I have mentioned my dislike for Johnstone, he actually played well....but the two in midfield just cannot/should not, neither of them...we need to make the decisions.
I’ve seen posts that billic was showing his lack of depth....Grosiki is an international, one that scored and assisted less than a week ago....if he came to me sayingâ€lack of depthâ€I’d be straight back with lack of tactical nous....
I am also probably in a very small minority that wouldn’t have got Diangana back....at least yet....I know that timelines don’t always sit how you want them....but it was obvious to the world...we need CM and CF as priorities.....we have wingers, the quality of them is open to debate and most would agree that Diangana is (when fit) our best wide option....but surely the CF position is the one where we are most at risk.....all other business should have been done AFTER we had signed at least one striker.
For what's its worth i feel that Livermore looks poor at times because in general he is having to o it all himself in the centre of the park. This results to him being played around and being out of position because he has had to try and win the ball back or put a tackle in because no one else will do it.
get a decent partner or two for him who can actually tackle and get around the park and i think you will see a much better player. think back to the early days of when we had Barry, he along side Livermore looked so much better because both would get stuck in...
with our wide and attacking players you can afford to have two players like that in there.... as long as we then get a decent striker or two
Lets not forget we were awful at the point RDM got sacked and looked dead certs to go down until Roy arrived.
After a nights sleep, I think we're at least four quality players (down our spine) short of staying up. This season for me is one where (because we don't have committed ownership), the best we can hope for is to blood some younger players and build a squad which can be built on next year when we go down again in order to come back stronger. We look like we did when we first got up under Megson or under Mowbray when we were lacking in quality and lightweight in key areas. Both times, we built on the experience to eventually establish ourselves. Unfortunately, we have ownership that has no connection at all (don't even attend matches or 'seem' to take an active interest) or seeming desire to do anything than to tread water so there is no possibility of them being creative or committed to doing anything other than hope for the best. Our recruitment badly lacks imagination which coupled with a relatively small budget means curtains, our manager can only do so much with what he has so overall , yesterday was a reality check that we'd be lucky to be close to staying up with a few games left. If we get over 20-25 points, I'll be amazed.
From Slav's point of view, we have to be much better at pressing teams and defending though. We know, with better organisation , we could've lost 1-0 yesterday which if we ever had an actual striker would've given us a fighting chance going into he last 10mins which is what this crappy division is about.
Isn't it not great to be back tin the premier league ...............
I know everyone adores Slaven but I've never been totally convinced by him. Before anyone hammers me no I'm not advocating he gets the sack.
Must do better though, Bilic. By now he should know what I've posted above hes been in the job long enough.
I just can't get my head around the decision to play an untested system on our first game back in the premier league. Not only was it untested but it alienated many of the players - Pereira and Diangana were pushed high but whenever they got the ball, there was little to no support other than each other with Leicester players swarming around them. Robinson was left on his own when inevitably we got deeper and Pereira and Diangana dropped deep to get the ball. Livermore tried but Sawyers looked lost in the middle as he was unable to sit and dictate the pace of the game when we had possession like he had done the previously.
The one thing that stands out to me is that I dont actually know what our style of play is. The teams that have come up and done well all have a distinct way of playing - Sheff Utd, Wolves and probably this year Leeds. Whereas, ourselves and Fulham to an extent, we kind of knock it about nicely but then sometimes counter attack (hence being better away from home) but I honestly couldn't describe our style.
Player's looked knackered after 20 minutes yesterday, who the hell is getting these players in shape? Same problem after lock down none of them could run.I agree with this Leicester took a while to get into their stride but once there they kept going for 90 minutes. We ran around for 20 minutes closing them down and pressing which was good but then seemed to blow up with 70 minutes to go. It may be in the head as Slaven said but they also looked physically tired.
Our players have looked unfit for ages now. Very worrying.,
Our players have looked unfit for ages now. Very worrying.
Unusually hot yesterday and our tactics contributed massively to the players looking knackered. You have three players, Robinson, Diangana and Pereira closing down the Leicester defence and midfield who simply passed the ball around them as they massively out numbered them. Then you had our two midfielders and numerous defenders 20 yards back watching on.
Unsurprisingly the front three we're shot after 30 minutes. The consequences of our approach we couldn't get the ball back and on the few occasions we put a cross in we had hardly anyone in the box. Chalk and cheese with Leeds for example who flooded Liverpool's box in every attack.
We we're far too defensive yesterday and the front three we're given no help whatsoever apart from Furlong getting forwards in the first 20 minutes. Shape and formation was horrible, badly needed another player in the midfield, not in the defence.
Unusually hot yesterday and our tactics contributed massively to the players looking knackered. You have three players, Robinson, Diangana and Pereira closing down the Leicester defence and midfield who simply passed the ball around them as they massively out numbered them. Then you had our two midfielders and numerous defenders 20 yards back watching on.
Unsurprisingly the front three we're shot after 30 minutes. The consequences of our approach we couldn't get the ball back and on the few occasions we put a cross in we had hardly anyone in the box. Chalk and cheese with Leeds for example who flooded Liverpool's box in every attack.
We we're far too defensive yesterday and the front three we're given no help whatsoever apart from Furlong getting forwards in the first 20 minutes. Shape and formation was horrible, badly needed another player in the midfield, not in the defence.
They shouldn't be shot after 30 mins whatever they do.
I seem to recall that was a criticism of Bilic at West Ham towards the end that his team wasnt fit enough.
I'm not making any judgement yet but I will be keeping an eye open.
We only had 25% of the ball. That's what knackered the team. When you don't have the ball and you chase after it your energy levels get burnt through. Leicester had the luxury of a second half keep-ball training session, which is why their players looked so much fresher.don't know about that body fat percentage HRK was getting ready to come on saw a bit of belly fat there.
Nothing seriously wrong with the underlying fitness of the team. They all have blood tests, body fat % taken, diet and exercise regimes etc, similar set-up to other clubs in the top tiers. No magic bullet for players just not being good enough.
don't know about that body fat percentage HRK was getting ready to come on saw a bit of belly fat there.
Albion remaining patient to ensure they get 'proper' targetHas to be Grant surely??? Basically a blinking contest that we think we will ultimately win?? Hope they are right, if we leave it to the last minute and Hudds fail to blink we will be up HRK creek without a striker.
Slaven Bilic says that Albion will sit tight and continue pressing on with plans to bring their primary target to the club before the transfer window shuts next month
birminghammail.co.uk
The longer we fail to score the more it's going to cost us I fear.
Only three games left now before the transfer window closes and realistically Chelsea at home is already a write-off and we're already close to the away game with Everton so I'd rather they wait now for the best targets possible than sign-up second choice and third choice targets.
Only three games left now before the transfer window closes and realistically Chelsea at home is already a write-off and we're already close to the away game with Everton so I'd rather they wait now for the best targets possible than sign-up second choice and third choice targets.
Only three games left now before the transfer window closes and realistically Chelsea at home is already a write-off and we're already close to the away game with Everton so I'd rather they wait now for the best targets possible than sign-up second choice and third choice targets.
21 days or three weeks sounds a lot longer
We've had the best part of 3 transfer windows and failed to sign a decent striker. I'm not so hopeful.
Bonkers isn't it. Zohore 40k pw minimum, Austin 50kpw minimum and HRK 35k pw. 125k pw waste from a money conscience board. Almost like they ain't very good at their jobs.
Bonkers isn't it. Zohore 40k pw minimum, Austin 50kpw minimum and HRK 35k pw. 125k pw waste from a money conscience board. Almost like they ain't very good at their jobs.
I agree which is why I don't have any faith whatsoever in them bringing in the quality that we need. Almost all of our fans would have said no to Zohore or HRK. Austin I guess was worth the gamble based on his record. Sounds like Grant is our main target but again he's a massive gamble having barely played at this level.
Result last night should give the whole club a boost going into weekend and some players could have got Slaven thinking.
Result last night should give the whole club a boost going into weekend and some players could have got Slaven thinking.I think Button gave a good performance and should be given a go. Of the others Peltier may be one to also give a go too has he would offer experience with ivanovic. OShea and Kipre are developing and should do us a job long term. Edwards, Harper, Austin, Field and Robson Kanu are not premier league standard and should be shipped out.
I think Button gave a good performance and should be given a go. Of the others Peltier may be one to also give a go too has he would offer experience with ivanovic. OShea and Kipre are developing and should do us a job long term. Edwards, Harper, Austin, Field and Robson Kanu are not premier league standard and should be shipped out.
Personally I thought Edwards was the pick of the bunch second half after being pretty much anonymous in the first half. If he's staying he needs to find a bit more consistency to his performance level.I like Edwards,I agree on the consistency ....the question is how does he get that when he starts....is out the squad.....on the bench unused.....on the bench comes on for 8 minutes......out the squad ?
They certainly got me thinking wtf!
I think Button gave a good performance and should be given a go. Of the others Peltier may be one to also give a go too has he would offer experience with ivanovic. OShea and Kipre are developing and should do us a job long term. Edwards, Harper, Austin, Field and Robson Kanu are not premier league standard and should be shipped out.
It would be so much easier to name players who are premier league standard, namely:
Pereira
Diangana
Both of whom upto now are completely unproven in the Premier League. Neither are proven Premier League class. At least not yet.
Diangana true but Pereira has played in the top flight of Portugal and recently the German league. Im confident in saying that he is premier league pedigree
yes, but Atomics pedantry is admirable ;D
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8745037/Slaven-Bilic-urges-West-Brom-board-money-sign-Filip-Krovinovic.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ito=1490&ns_campaign=1490He risks looking silly if we buy him and then don't play him.
Slav getting frustrated with the board.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8745037/Slaven-Bilic-urges-West-Brom-board-money-sign-Filip-Krovinovic.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ito=1490&ns_campaign=1490Slav needs to pipe down......manager vs board there is only ever one winner...
Slav getting frustrated with the board.
He risks looking silly if we buy him and then don't play him.
Slav should have quiet word with himself and consider what he’s risking with this constant pining for a player who he only started 24 times and wasn’t particularly impressive.100%
Think we could see more fans turn on him later today.
Think we could see more fans turn on him later today.Why? And if they do i won't be one of them.
Think we could see more fans turn on him later today.
Slav should have quiet word with himself and consider what he’s risking with this constant pining for a player who he only started 24 times and wasn’t particularly impressive.
Not a chance, well apart from the fruit loops!
Not a chance, well apart from the fruit loops!
Why? And if they do i won't be one of them.
Agreed. The bloke is doing best he can with what’s available. I fully expect formation to change when he has all available players to choose from.
This set up is the best we can do? Not having it.That’s your opinion and I respect it. Very early days this season and window still gives options, incoming and outgoing.
So how do you all think he's doing today then :-X
Won't last the season. Most likely won't last til Christmas.
Shall I say it?
Taxi for Bilic? :o
In all seriousness, if it wasn’t for the lack of any real stand out candidates I think I’d be tempted to be calling for him to go!
I would walk now if I was him. Get out while your stock is high. Clearly frustrated with the board's penny pinching.
Not even two games into the season and it has started..............
Yeah because playing musical chairs with the manager two games into the season will make clown defenders and a clown keeper play better right?.
Shall I say it?There isn't a manager on the planet who could keep this team in the premier League. Bilic performed wonders getting them promoted last season. You can't blame him that we haven't strengthened the squad. The team over-achieved in the Championship - what do we expect in the Premier League?
Taxi for Bilic? :o
In all seriousness, if it wasn’t for the lack of any real stand out candidates I think I’d be tempted to be calling for him to go!
There isn't a manager on the planet who could keep this team in the premier League. Bilic performed wonders getting them promoted last season. You can't blame him that we haven't strengthened the squad. The team over-achieved in the Championship - what do we expect in the Premier League?
Bilic isn't the problem here, he's trying to get blood out of a stone. We've got few players of PL quality, we NEED a real striker and we NEED one now, not to mention a keeper (Button needs a chance). Ivanovic will hopefully help sure up our defence so im not so worried about that just yet.
Bilic got us promoted first try and he hasn't been backed fully, he doesnt have a realistically capable squad. He's not the problem here, he needs time and backing
Tony Pulis? ;D
As above, I don’t think he should be sacked but something needs to change.
We lack confidence and that can’t be down to lack of signings.
We were lucky to get promoted and it’s carried on into this season.
I back Bilic. I also hope he addresses some issues pretty quickly. Main issues being:
Formation, Furlong, Bartley, spine of team, keeper.
Disappointed Furlong is in that list but he's not good enough defensively.
Lack confidence? What are you on?
It’s Purely just a lack of quality... the back line including the keeper have been a disgrace in both games and Livermore is just like a raging bull.
Get Gallagher in the squad, sort that back line out and get button in goal and no doubt we will see a difference. After all it can’t get any worse.
Hence why he is a wing back against Leicester he was our best player
Sheff Utd last season had a world class keeper. We have a clown in goal.They also had the likes of McGoldrick and Leon Clarke up front. My point is, sometimes it's down to poor quality. But sometimes it's down to bad tactics and organisation. If you look at their third for instance, it wasn't Johnstone's fault. It was the defending as they haven't drilled set-pieces well enough.
Bilic isn't the problem here, he's trying to get blood out of a stone. We've got few players of PL quality, we NEED a real striker and we NEED one now, not to mention a keeper (Button needs a chance). Ivanovic will hopefully help sure up our defence so im not so worried about that just yet.
Bilic got us promoted first try and he hasn't been backed fully, he doesnt have a realistically capable squad. He's not the problem here, he needs time and backing
The problem is we can all see the deficiencies , we all knew what we needed yet all I have read this week is him banging on about Krovinovic who is a decent player but to me bilic is missing the point get the spine of the team sorted then build around it , you cannot build a house without the right foundations .krovinovic won't improve this team, has he got shares in him? Baffling.
I said elsewhere that late October early November he'll get the boot and we'll rejected by fat sham and Chris Hughton will get his dream job back in the Premier league.
The 4 games at the end of last year will go into the thinking to this season's start plus his constant moaning about players.
He clearly doesn't understand we have a limited budget and he looks like someone who wants out anyway, but wants to be pushed.
This thread is really interesting
It feels that there (at least in posts) is a pretty clear split between
Those that love bilic and definitely blame Dowling etc for any shortcomings.
&
Those that do not rate him and have said so for some time .
I don’t hate the bloke,but I do think he’s been found wanting ,and whilst he appears to have good camaraderie with the team...formation and tactics worry the life out of me.
Anyone can see the keeper is an issue,he’s had more than enough time to sort...
I don’t like the fact that he’s grumbling publicly....the club have spent on pereira and Diangana,still in for strikers and possibly Krov...
He needs to at least accept some responsibility ,shut up and get in with it .
Bilic needs to accept he needs a proper defensive midfielder , all a bit Mowbray like for me.
He wasn't. He got into space twice and failed to provide. His level is where we got him from.
I said elsewhere that late October early November he'll get the boot and we'll rejected by fat sham and Chris Hughton will get his dream job back in the Premier league.
The 4 games at the end of last year will go into the thinking to this season's start plus his constant moaning about players.
He clearly doesn't understand we have a limited budget and he looks like someone who wants out anyway, but wants to be pushed.
Agree, but this doesn't remotely solve our biggest issue of crosses into the box not being dealt with. Or our 2nd biggest, this ridiculous formation.It would be a start , agree on formation
Utter garbage in my opinion.Yes, awful post,
Utter garbage in my opinion.
I haven’t called for Slaven Bilic to be sacked though. I don’t rate him and if anything I’m consistent with my view on that topic.
Really? Can a manager be utter garbage and get a team automatic promotion . The amount of times on here i see people slate our lack of quality but also call Bilic rubbish is baffling.
Really? Can a manager be utter garbage and get a team automatic promotion . The amount of times on here i see people slate our lack of quality but also call Bilic rubbish is baffling.
:o Where did I say the manager was utter garbage?
You didn't, he was mixing up a comment that Partisan Baggie's criticisms of Bilic were utter garbage with calling the manager utter garbage, which you did not.
I'm all for defending Bilic but with picking certain players and this strange formation he isn't helping himself.I'm very much a 4-3-3 man, or at least 4-2-3-1, but you have to agree the formation today was working quite well until the Gibbs sending off. Clearly, it is designed to counter attack the better teams. I doubt he would use it v Fulham or West Ham.
Bilic needs to accept he needs a proper defensive midfielder , all a bit Mowbray like for me.
I'm very much a 4-3-3 man, or at least 4-2-3-1, but you have to agree the formation today was working quite well until the Gibbs sending off. Clearly, it is designed to counter attack the better teams. I doubt he would use it v Fulham or West Ham.It was better Id agree but 5 at the back and we have let 8 goals in 2 games all ready plus lots of misssed chances in both games . I'm torn between trying it a bit longer , id prefer a 4 3 3 with a screen in front of the back 4 .
By picking certain players I assume you are referring to Johnstone, HRK? I think he'd like better in both positions, but the limited funds means his style has had to be cramped. If he had a better No.9 I don't think HRK would get much of a look in. With the GK position, he's had to settle for the 3rd choice Brighton keeper, rather than a straight forward No.1.
Yes, awful post,
SB got a side with awful strikers and an average championship goalkeeper promoted, he is now trying to get the same squad competitive in the Premier league, he has earned our support and that of the club,
We can't keep sacking managers as soon as we lose 3 or 4 games especially against top half sides. We have to give Bilic a chance to turn things around. He's had no time to use the recent signings. If he wants Krovinovic then we should try and bring him in. If he turns out to be a turkey in the EPL then his ideas have failed and then we can justifiably sack him - but that will cost.
Having said that I cannot understand wht he plays weird formations with mediocre players
- go 4-3-3
It's no good clamouring for top class strikers when the money isn't there. Guochan is finding out that english football is not a sure fire investment; he should have gone into Thames side property. At some point he'll cut his losses probably when we're back in the second tier.
Johnstone, Gibbs, Bartley, Hegazi, Livermore, Phillips, Brunt, Barry, Harper, Robson-Kanu and Edwards were all featured in the 18/19 season where we finished 4th. Lead firstly by Darren Moore (who had no previous first team managerial experience) and secondly by Jimmy Shan (who had no managerial experience whatsoever).
You’re telling me Slaven Bilic, with his résumé, exceeded all our expectations by finishing the way we did. Have a word with yourself Albionic.
Solely thanks to the goals of Dwight Gayle and J-Rod who both left before Bilic took over and he had to rebuild the team in one transfer window. Automatic promotion was a fantastic achievement last season and as usual your spouting rubbish.He didn't rebuild the team, that is spouting rubbish.
Billic gets the season for me. We have changed the manager far too often of late. He has for the large part overhauled the squad. The football is better.Agreed, but he just has to stop his love in with both Johnstone and Livermore.Edit: Add Kanu to that list.
As posters above have said we just have a team that's not ready for pl and we have a soft underbelly in midfield and we try to play football all over the park and a calamity keeper as the mowbray side did
He’s had no time to use recent signings?!
He’s had Diangana and Pereira at his disposal since September 2019 and Robinson since January 2020.
He didn't rebuild the team, that is spouting rubbish.
By your own logic, he replaced Gayle and JRod with Austin and Zohore.
Team that played in the play off final against Villa and lost on pens.Sorry I don't get your point?
West Brom: Johnstone, Holgate, Dawson, Hegazi, Bartley, Gibbs, Johansen, Brunt, Phillips, Murphy, Rodriguez.
Subs: Morrison, Harper, Adarabioyo, Leko. Gayle suspended.
Best manager we’ve had since Hodgson. Suggesting replacing him is just nonsense in my view.
Really? Can a manager be utter garbage and get a team automatic promotion . The amount of times on here i see people slate our lack of quality but also call Bilic rubbish is baffling.If a goalkeeper and strikers can be utter carnage and still be part of a promotion winning team...then yes
If a goalkeeper and strikers can be utter carnage and still be part of a promotion winning team...then yes
Just goes to show how good job Bilic did getting so many points with a plastic keeper and OAP strikers. He got HRK for a few months playing out of his skin, never seen it since or likely to see that again.Or just goes to show that we were extremely lucky that when presented with the opportunity, Fulham, Brentford and Forrest all bottled it..
Or just goes to show that we were extremely lucky that when presented with the opportunity, Fulham, Brentford and Forrest all bottled it..
When we were double digit points clear at the top....we should never have been going in to the last game as we did, Billic was in charge when we went up, I don’t think that means we went up due to Billic .
:o Where did I say the manager was utter garbage?
Just goes to show how good job Bilic did getting so many points with a plastic keeper and OAP strikers. He got HRK for a few months playing out of his skin, never seen it since or likely to see that again.[/b]
Sorry fully misread this apologies. One too many beers ha
You don't get automatic promotion over 46 games and 83 points by being lucky. You do realise we got into the position of being double digits clear a the top thanks to the unbelievable run of form and performances that the team put together, those results and wins are all credit to Bilic - they weren't handed to us by the EFL.
While I'm not always sold on some of the things Bilic does I think its fair to say if we get the basics right and a tad more rigid the season isnt over for us just yet as some predict .
Some of the sweeping football against Everton was a joy to watch and more important we actually looked a threat .
Certain players out the side , 4 3 3 for me and two more quality signings and this side will compete in my humble especially against the non top 8 sides .
I’d actually agree with the first paragraph, but Bilic isn’t capable of doing it. He’s ok at creating an attacking mentality that’s allows creative players to play and express themselves but the bits that need the more rigid coaching such as defending, organisation and shape he just can’t do.This is where I hope Bilic has learned from prevoius clubs and the 2 coaches he has with him have a say.
That’s in part why we were successful last season with more talented individuals in comparison to our opposition and our weaknesses were shielded. Now we will be utterly screwed as we wont have the ball, or better players and our weaknesses will be stressed and break constantly.
I’d actually agree with the first paragraph, but Bilic isn’t capable of doing it. He’s ok at creating an attacking mentality that’s allows creative players to play and express themselves but the bits that need the more rigid coaching such as defending, organisation and shape he just can’t do.
That’s in part why we were successful last season with more talented individuals in comparison to our opposition and our weaknesses were shielded. Now we will be utterly screwed as we wont have the ball, or better players and our weaknesses will be stressed and break constantly.
This is where I hope Bilic has learned from prevoius clubs and the 2 coaches he has with him have a say.
The lack of a DM is telling.
We can be defensively solid without a DM or rather one in that basically screens a back 4, we need more than that from all our central midfielders. A back 3 negates the need for one at all or least ways should.
I am afraid Bilic doesn't set up his teams to grind points through deep sitting rear guard actions and if that is what is now required we should have fired him on promotion.
We might take some beatings along the way but we can still get to the points total required but defense will be an ongoing concern.
I don’t think we can.
Just saw this site
http://www.just-football.com/2012/10/how-to-avoid-relegation-from-the-premier-league-a-statistical-analysis/
The stats are dated, but I suspect nothing major has changed. Concede more than 60 goals and you will likely be regulated.
There is a great chance we will have conceded over 10 after 3. It’s not out of the question that this could be 12 or more!
Ivanovic better take control of coaching the defence and be superman.
Looking on the bright side, 2 of them were penalities, and 3 were against 10 men.
You don't get automatic promotion over 46 games and 83 points by being lucky. You do realise we got into the position of being double digits clear a the top thanks to the unbelievable run of form and performances that the team put together, those results and wins are all credit to Bilic - they weren't handed to us by the EFL.Oh how we rejoiced as Stoke and Barnsley did the impossible at the tail end of the season..
Oh how we rejoiced as Stoke and Barnsley did the impossible at the tail end of the season..
We had to rely on others ....you surely cannot think we had no luck whatsoever?
And if Bilic was in charge when we went up, Zohore was also part of the squad when we went up..
If Slav takes the positive credit, he must also take the negative critic .
Your missing the point by focusing on a handful of games. 83 points over 46 games was what we achieved and that was fantastic. In respect of last season I really don’t know what your moaning about.Ok
Ok
Let’s look at more than
Stoke helping us
Barnsley helping us
Barnsley home
Barnsley away
Stoke home
Huddersfield away
Wigan home
Boro home
Those are just the ones that we absolutely should have done better in
Then there’s swapping/subbing fullbacks almost every match at the start of the season
Desperately needing width at Barnsley away...leaving Phillips AND Edwards on the bench and playing Sawyers,Krov AND Barry there during the game
HRK scores winner vs Boro away..then dropped
Krov scores vs Barnsley away...then dropped
Robinson...played wide every time he’s been on the pitch....pressure last match of the season, starts him through the middle
Johnstone ?
Need I go on ?
Ok
Let’s look at more than
Stoke helping us
Barnsley helping us
Barnsley home
Barnsley away
Stoke home
Huddersfield away
Wigan home
Boro home
Those are just the ones that we absolutely should have done better in
Then there’s swapping/subbing fullbacks almost every match at the start of the season
Desperately needing width at Barnsley away...leaving Phillips AND Edwards on the bench and playing Sawyers,Krov AND Barry there during the game
HRK scores winner vs Boro away..then dropped
Krov scores vs Barnsley away...then dropped
Robinson...played wide every time he’s been on the pitch....pressure last match of the season, starts him through the middle
Johnstone ?
Need I go on ?
So if Bilic was good we'd have won 100% of our matches?
Like it or not a season is judged over the entire length. Put it this way, if you swapped our first half and second half around would you be saying how great a job Bilic did because we had a storming second half to the season?
no. please dont go on. Just support your team - who did well to get promoted to a league wher we know we are going to find it tough. we may or may not survive but we dont have millions to **** away like the Vile who are not going to be much better than us, Are we going to be great? No - will we stay up? possibly not. Will we give it everthing? yes we will. Will all the negative **** posted on here help? no it blooming well wont.I do support my team, to the detriment of my sanity and wallet...I really have and can’t wait to do so in real time soon.
lets just get behind whoever wears the stripes - they do not pick themselves and they deserve our uncondtional support, ( that does not mean they are above critisism - but ax a collective we have to get behind them - albeit virtually
Don’t waste your time zippyandbungle, baggies82 won’t have a bad word said against Slaven Bilic.😂
Must be carrying Bilic’s baby. They’re completely devoted to the man. 😜
“Sometimes, you never know the true value of an individual until they become a memoryâ€Used to say this when Jerome Thomas was out the team.
“Sometimes, you never know the true value of an individual until they become a memoryâ€That will be wasted on some! Just saying :D
So if Bilic was good we'd have won 100% of our matches?
Like it or not a season is judged over the entire length. Put it this way, if you swapped our first half and second half around would you be saying how great a job Bilic did because we had a storming second half to the season?
Ever broken up with a partner? If you swapped the first 10% and the last 10% would you have broken up?
Timing matters, trends matter. A season of 82 points without big highs and lows is a different beast to judge than one that starts on incredibly well and ends incredibly badly.
Two cars in identical races, one wins after a poor start but fixes its engine Troubles and powers home. The other wins after building a big lead, but it’s engine blows up and it only narrowly gets over the line. Which one you backing in the next race?
Ever broken up with a partner? If you swapped the first 10% and the last 10% would you have broken up?
Timing matters, trends matter. A season of 82 points without big highs and lows is a different beast to judge than one that starts on incredibly well and ends incredibly badly.
Two cars in identical races, one wins after a poor start but fixes its engine Troubles and powers home. The other wins after building a big lead, but it’s engine blows up and it only narrowly gets over the line. Which one you backing in the next race?
Used to say this when Jerome Thomas was out the team.
😂
I doubt he’s carrying his baby, if he is I hope they washed their hands..
In all seriousness whilst I don’t just clap along, I do respect someone who sticks to their opinion, it’s not the making of a bad person, just a statement of inflexibility .
There are many things that we will all disagree on, but in the main it’s just different ways of wanting what we belive is best for WBA...
I think you've taken your racing car metaphor to destruction. We are now in a very different race, with competitors with much bigger engines and greater acceleration.
Last season the remit was top six, and we got top two, playing a quality brand of football. Excellent, especially with a weak keeper and no goalscoring striker. We might lose all 38 games this season and finish on a -40 goal difference, it won't change the fact that Bilic did a superb job last season which was successful.
I'll judge Bilic's performance for this season once we've played 38 games against the backdrop of the squad he has and the money we have spent. At present, a realistic finish is 18th-20th with these players, but a long way to go.
Buddy, the quality of football WBA have played under Slaven Bilic has not been consistently good. I wish it was. What has made the difference in games is simply having some better individuals than the opposition.
I also don’t think you’ll get to judge Slaven Bilic this season after 38 games. I’m not saying that to wind you up because I know you’re loyal to the guy which deserves some respect. But I do think the board will push the panic button if the results don’t pick up after the transfer window has shut.
no. please dont go on. Just support your team - who did well to get promoted to a league wher we know we are going to find it tough. we may or may not survive but we dont have millions to **** away like the Vile who are not going to be much better than us, Are we going to be great? No - will we stay up? possibly not. Will we give it everthing? yes we will. Will all the negative **** posted on here help? no it blooming well wont.
lets just get behind whoever wears the stripes - they do not pick themselves and they deserve our uncondtional support, ( that does not mean they are above critisism - but ax a collective we have to get behind them - albeit virtually
Don't worry, you are incapable of winding me up, so have no fear. After you called for Bilic to be sacked several times last season I don't take anything you say about him with any seriousness, although your posts do entertain me at times. Calling for his head was so left-field and unreasonable I was convinced you were a wolves teenager on a wind-up. A suspicion not helped your Wolverhampton address. I've just about come around to the conclusion that you're actually an Albion fan. Half of the the posts on this Bilic thread are from you calling for the bloke to be sacked in a promotion year, which I thought was disgraceful. Leading to that poll in pre-season which put you in 0.1% Bilic out brigade (the poll was ridiculed as an embarrassment to the fan base).
I'm not surprised your predicting the team to tank and Bilic to be sacked. If he ever does lose his job you are not going to know what to do with yourself. Although I don't think the board are anywhere as melodramatic and knee-jerk, particularly when there is a general consensus that we are facing a massive struggle, due primarily to the quality of the squad, or lack of.
Ironically I agree with you that we are facing a very difficult season. One thing is certain, this forum is going to stay very lively. Always so much more to debate and moan about when we are struggling.
Surely the danger is that Slaven walks, and not that we sack him.Whilst he could have had no complaints about being sacked had we failed to go up, I can see no scenario this season where he is at risk. We are so far behind in terms of personnel and finance, we have to just give it our best shot without too great an expectation.
Whilst he could have had no complaints about being sacked had we failed to go up, I can see no scenario this season where he is at risk. We are so far behind in terms of personnel and finance, we have to just give it our best shot without too great an expectation.
If we go down, so be it, we will have the parachute cash and a manager with promotion experience. Job's a good un.
That doesn't mean he's exempt from criticism though. There is a difference between having a whinge about team selections, formations, subs etc. (which I will continue to do as I see fit) and calling for his head.
Football fans are allowed to moan, it's one of the few concessions that we get in return for our hard-earned! ;)
I think this is spot-on. Well said. Fair & balanced.
Sorry to pick at an old scab but I would rather go down this season with Billic (and keep him in the Championship) Than stay up for two or three seasons playing Pulisball. I think Billic is one of the best managers we have had in many years and I hope he stays with us for many more whether in the Prem or Championship.
Agreed. The advantage of having someone like Bilic in charge for the long term is he gets to build a team over time that can compete at this level and play a progressive brand of football. We acknowledge that with the current budget he is pushing uphill this season but doesn’t mean we can’t dream and cheer them on.I agree, but with 1 caveat, I am a little concerned about ending up with a team where 90% of the names end in -ic and Slav Bil disappears ! That said are there that many -ic's playing in english football, i guess our recruitment policy mitigates this issue occurring
I agree, but with 1 caveat, I am a little concerned about ending up with a team where 90% of the names end in -ic and Slav Bil disappears ! That said are there that many -ic's playing in english football, i guess our recruitment policy mitigates this issue occurring
I agree, but with 1 caveat, I am a little concerned about ending up with a team where 90% of the names end in -ic and Slav Bil disappears ! That said are there that many -ic's playing in english football, i guess our recruitment policy mitigates this issue occurring
Lol sorry mate but that's just crazy.
I couldn't give a fig where players come from, what they look like, what sexuality they are or whether they are homosapien or alien-human hybrid.
As long as they can do the job they can even be a boyhood seal fan ......... well, maybe ;)
So are you suggesting we scratch all ic's?
So are you suggesting we scratch all ic's?
Agreed. The advantage of having someone like Bilic in charge for the long term is he gets to build a team over time that can compete at this level and play a progressive brand of football. We acknowledge that with the current budget he is pushing uphill this season but doesn’t mean we can’t dream and cheer them on.
And yes we may have had "better players" in some departments but certainly NOT in all, particularly at CF and some positions along the back.
How is it an advantage to have someone like Bilic if we want to build a team over the long term? That suggests he's a proven record of doing it, which he hasnt.
I still find it incredible what people think other championship squads consistted of when trying to down play ours last year. People seem to suggest teams like Blackburn and Preston had prime Maldini in their team and Cannavaro on the bench.
Nobody in the division had the best player in every position. We certainly did have one of the best squads though, and players like Hegazi and Ajayi are certainly better individuals than 90% of the division had available. They didn't look it at times I agree, but why was that?
A good number of our squad all start for 95% of the other sides we were competing with last year. Even some of the others like Furlong probably play for 19 of the 24.
How is it an advantage to have someone like Bilic if we want to build a team over the long term? That suggests he's a proven record of doing it, which he hasnt.
I still find it incredible what people think other championship squads consistted of when trying to down play ours last year. People seem to suggest teams like Blackburn and Preston had prime Maldini in their team and Cannavaro on the bench.
Nobody in the division had the best player in every position. We certainly did have one of the best squads though, and players like Hegazi and Ajayi are certainly better individuals than 90% of the division had available. They didn't look it at times I agree, but why was that?
A good number of our squad all start for 95% of the other sides we were competing with last year. Even some of the others like Furlong probably play for 19 of the 24.
How about these two??
# Player Country Team Goals (Penalty)
1. Aleksandar Mitrović Serbia Serbia Fulham FC Fulham FC 26 (4)
2. Ollie Watkins England England Brentford FC Brentford FC 25 (0)
3. Lewis Grabban Jamaica Jamaica Nottingham Forest Nottingham Forest 20 (4)
4. Karlan Grant England England Huddersfield Town Huddersfield Town 19 (6)
5. Nahki Wells Bermuda Bermuda Bristol City Bristol City
Queens Park Rangers Queens Park Rangers 18 (0)
6. Saïd Benrahma Algeria Algeria Brentford FC Brentford FC 17 (4)
Jarrod Bowen England England Hull City Hull City 17 (0)
8. Adam Armstrong England England Blackburn Rovers Blackburn Rovers 16 (2)
Patrick Bamford England England Leeds United Leeds United 16 (2)
10. André Ayew Ghana Ghana Swansea City Swansea City 15 (5)
Bryan Mbeumo France France Brentford FC Brentford FC 15 (0)
12. James Collins England England Luton Town Luton Town 14 (6)
Eberechi Eze England England Queens Park Rangers Queens Park Rangers 14 (4)
Lukas Jutkiewicz England England Birmingham City Birmingham City 14 (0)
15. Steven Fletcher Scotland Scotland Sheffield Wednesday Sheffield Wednesday 13 (4)
Jordan Hugill England England Queens Park Rangers Queens Park Rangers 13 (0)
Yakou Meïté France France Reading FC Reading FC 13 (1)
Cauley Woodrow England England Barnsley FC Barnsley FC 13 (2)
19. Conor Chaplin England England Barnsley FC Barnsley FC 12 (0)
Famara Diédhiou Senegal Senegal Bristol City Bristol City 12 (1)
Daniel Johnson Jamaica Jamaica Preston North End Preston North End 12 (6)
George Pușcaș Romania Romania Reading FC Reading FC 12 (4)
Matt Smith England England Millwall FC Millwall FC 12 (0)
Martyn Waghorn England England Derby County Derby County 12 (2)
25. Macauley Bonne England England Charlton Athletic Charlton Athletic 11 (0)
Sam Clucas England England Stoke City Stoke City 11 (0)
Chris Martin Scotland Scotland Derby County Derby County 11 (2)
Lyle Taylor Montserrat Montserrat Charlton Athletic Charlton Athletic 11 (4)
29. Britt Assombalonga Congo DR Congo DR Middlesbrough FC Middlesbrough FC 10 (1)
Charlie Austin England England West Bromwich Albion West Bromwich Albion 10 (4)
Rhian Brewster England England Swansea City Swansea City 10 (0)
Joshua Da Silva England England Brentford FC Brentford FC 10 (1)
Ashley Fletcher England England Middlesbrough FC Middlesbrough FC 10 (1)
Tom Lawrence Wales Wales Derby County Derby County 10 (0)
Kieffer Moore Wales Wales Wigan Athletic Wigan Athletic 10 (2)
Hal Robson-Kanu Wales Wales West Bromwich Albion West Bromwich Albion 10 (1)
If you remove the penalties and look at goals in open play it's up to 377!! All meaningless of course but my eyes told me all I needed to know. The Blues goals though!! Left a memory there.
It's pretty obvious he's now surplus havnt seen many champ clubs linked.
So if we're going to discount penalties does that mean we're dropping our interest in Karlan Grant? Someone needs to get onto Slaven and Luke pretty sharpish as it appears they've been looking the wrong way and at the wrong type of goals. Amateurs, pah.
Sorry to pick at an old scab but I would rather go down this season with Billic (and keep him in the Championship) Than stay up for two or three seasons playing Pulisball. I think Billic is one of the best managers we have had in many years and I hope he stays with us for many more whether in the Prem or Championship.If we go down the people that make the decisions probably won’t agree, and if he is as good as some suggest, then a bigger club than us will come in for him?
If we go down the people that make the decisions probably won’t agree, and if he is as good as some suggest, then a bigger club than us will come in for him?
I can’t see him doing 3 years with us.
I said on the "in game" chat, that it was The MIKE DEAN Show.
If he'd only scored half of his goals in open play, showed limited mobility outside of goalscoring and had started this season not being able to hit a cow's backside with a banjo....yep I'd say we should drop it like a stone.
My original point was we got promoted without a top striker. With one Slavs Albion would have been promoted with games to spare.
Nothing surprising from the authorities. Similar behaviour from big club managers would of course go unpunished.
Rubbish. The premier league isn’t out to get Bilic or Albion.
Well you’d hope not.
But as others have said, other managers have carried on worse than that and nothing happens. Hard to draw any other conclusions than double standards.
Others have said that without proving any examples, I don't recall any manager in the premiership berating the referee on the pitch post the reopening of football and social distancing.
Others have said that without proving any examples, I don't recall any manager in the premiership berating the referee on the pitch post the reopening of football and social distancing.
Dean merely sought to find a reason to allow what was a goal scored by a player from an offside position.
VAR not Dean overturned the offside decision as it was not offside.
Have you considered the possibility that as an Albion fan your are incapable of judging a decision that went against the team rationally in an even-handed manner?
How longs he got then? ;)
Yes I have, and freely admit that whilst I'm perfectly capable of making rational judgements regarding the team I support I find it more interesting to take the stance that I do in order to allow pedantic nonentities to exercise their misplaced feelings superiority. Have you considered the possibility of not taking selective quotes to back up your tendency to stir up controversy under the guise of rationality. My whole post is an even handed opinion piece as I saw it and was backed by a reasonable exposition of expectations. It was perhaps a little long for you. You may have the final word if you wish I no longer have any interest in debate with a poster who seems to believe they are the only one capable of rational argument, including the rationality shown by your many posts vilifying certain players and the manager of the club you purport to support.
HOWEVER tonight I am going to criticize him his starting 11 was a disgrace considering it was a favourable draw and we had another to come.
The starting 11 was a disgrace?
Button - obviously going to play
Townsend - only left back we have
Ivanovic - got a valuable 60 minutes into his legs
Kipre - pushing for a first team spot, always going to play
Peltier - experienced championship player
Field, Harper & Edwards - ideal game time for the academy players who aren't new to the likes of Brentford
Philips - first team player whole of last season, needed minutes
Gallagher - integral member of the team, not match fit
HRK - our next choice after Robinson, scored both penalties with ease
How you can call that selection against a weakened Brentford side a disgrace is beyond me. Had the referee not screwed us by giving them that penalty to level or had we beat them 5-4 on spot kicks what would your view have been?
We have Chelsea at home on Saturday to worry about.
Regardless, I think Bilic will be under immense pressure unless he gets something out of the Chelsea game which is not likely. I think he could even be sacked if we lose by a big score or if we lose then fail to win the next game. I'm not saying that's right or wrong but I feel that's the way the mood is going.
I thought we should have done better tonight. So far in the league a lot has been made of our lack of quality compared to the other teams and rightly so. You can't really compare some of our players to the likes of Vardy and Rodriguez et al.
However, tonight it was our second team vs Brentford's second team and we looked quite laboured.
Regardless, I think Bilic will be under immense pressure unless he gets something out of the Chelsea game which is not likely. I think he could even be sacked if we lose by a big score or if we lose then fail to win the next game. I'm not saying that's right or wrong but I feel that's the way the mood is going.
I thought we should have done better tonight. So far in the league a lot has been made of our lack of quality compared to the other teams and rightly so. You can't really compare some of our players to the likes of Vardy and Rodriguez et al.
However, tonight it was our second team vs Brentford's second team and we looked quite laboured.
Regardless, I think Bilic will be under immense pressure unless he gets something out of the Chelsea game which is not likely. I think he could even be sacked if we lose by a big score or if we lose then fail to win the next game. I'm not saying that's right or wrong but I feel that's the way the mood is going.
I thought we should have done better tonight. So far in the league a lot has been made of our lack of quality compared to the other teams and rightly so. You can't really compare some of our players to the likes of Vardy and Rodriguez et al.
However, tonight it was our second team vs Brentford's second team and we looked quite laboured.
Regardless, I think Bilic will be under immense pressure unless he gets something out of the Chelsea game which is not likely. I think he could even be sacked if we lose by a big score or if we lose then fail to win the next game. I'm not saying that's right or wrong but I feel that's the way the mood is going.
If the owner would give him the funds so we could compete in league that would be a start. Or if they want to do a Norwich well I'd like them to come out with plan that keeps Diangana and Pereira for our next crack at prem.
Too many changes. No robinson on bench. Periera and diangana would have started for me but I would have gone all out to get in hat for round 4.
Too much youth in cm
The starting 11 was a disgrace?Completely different reaction across the board if that had happened, it's the defeat that hurts, the rest is just borne of frustration.
Button - obviously going to play
Townsend - only left back we have
Ivanovic - got a valuable 60 minutes into his legs
Kipre - pushing for a first team spot, always going to play
Peltier - experienced championship player
Field, Harper & Edwards - ideal game time for the academy players who aren't new to the likes of Brentford
Philips - first team player whole of last season, needed minutes
Gallagher - integral member of the team, not match fit
HRK - our next choice after Robinson, scored both penalties with ease
How you can call that selection against a weakened Brentford side a disgrace is beyond me. Had the referee not screwed us by giving them that penalty to level or had we beat them 5-4 on spot kicks what would your view have been?
We have Chelsea at home on Saturday to worry about.
why would you risk robinson, Periera and diangana in a game that means nothing in the grand scheme of things. The league cup has become nothing more than a reserve competition that is useful to get minutes under the belt for some and give experience to young prospects... we have premier league games to concern ourselves with... not so much Chelsea because I doubt we will get anything from them but after that we have games we can hopefully compete in.... imagine if the 3 you mention get injuries in a worthless match or imagine we win and we have another game pushed in to a hectic schedule...
personally i couldn't give a flying F about going out of the league cup, it carries about as much importance for us as the EFL trophy..… now if we did the same to the FA cup then yes I would be annoyed
So if we don’t have much chance of beating Chelsea as everyone seems to be intimating are you saying why bother playing Robinson Diangana and Perreira in a nothing match as we are going to lose anyway. May as well keep them for October for the games that do count and we don’t risk injury on Saturday?....
Even though I think we've doomed against Chelsea (who will be keen to bounce back from their defeat against Liverpool) the premiership still has to be the priority, as you never know in football.
Bilic still struggling to come to terms with how passive and careless the board/owner are.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/slaven-bilic-makes-owner-plea-18981969
Christ that's an awful website.
I know Jacko, it's full of ad links, etc that freeze up my browser and probably partly explains why they rarely get any comments as well as the standard of journalism.
Christ that's an awful website.
Sites like this make an ad blocker an essential prerequisite for viewing.
Do they ever show relevant information that is not set up as clickbait?
Off topic i'm from Kent and you would absolutely hate Kentlive!
8k for asking for an explanation when his dressing room was in the car park??? It’s a bloody joke if you ask me?It’s probably for going on the pitch, confronting the fartsmeller, and raising his voice during the pandemic..
Just my opinion though
8k for asking for an explanation when his dressing room was in the car park??? It’s a bloody joke if you ask me? Just my opinion though
He pled guilty to the charge, it was obvious watching he'd lost the plot at the ref. He wasn't exactly going over for a quiet word. Similar to how he behaved at Derby at the start of last season when he got sent off. Hopefully he learns from it.You mean to say, that he can't express his emotions and opininions?
He pled guilty to the charge, it was obvious watching he'd lost the plot at the ref. He wasn't exactly going over for a quiet word. Similar to how he behaved at Derby at the start of last season when he got sent off. Hopefully he learns from it.
I am not sure of the story about having to cross the pitch to the away team's dressing rooms. In a pic on the BBC report Gibbs can be seen walking in the same direction as the Everton players.
Is there a link to actual tv footage which shows the whole episode unfold ?
Disappointed that we haven't backed him fully. I think we will be looking back in 12 months time and thinking "what if". Lai and his cronies will get rid of him if were struggling come Christmas. Don't be surprised if we see another firefighter drafted in. And for one I will simply not give this club another £1 until Lai is gone.
I dont think they will get rid of him. His contract expires in 9 months anyway. Lai and his boys are far too passive to bother with paying him off and then looking for a new manager and more compensation.
Same at least Peace had some interest until he couldn't squeeze a further drop from his wba lemon. Lai soon realised the lemon was dry after taking control and lost interest.
Last week 3-0 up swap Robinson for Robson-Kanu on the hour today 1-0 down exactly the same time exactly the same swap. Why??
No arguments that the team isn't remotely good enough for this level.
The more pressing concern though is our post Christmas form in the championship was also shocking (worse than mid-table), so we're quickly approaching a year of poor performances. I accept this team is going down regardless but if Bilic stays we will likely challenge Derby's record low points total and certainly concede over 100 goals. We look like conceding 5 or 6 every game. You look at say Cardiff the other year under Warnock who were also woefully unequipped for the premier but were at least competitive, we're not remotely competitive.
More pressing is that upon relegation once Diangana and Pereira are stripped from the side we will have a side that is not remotely close to the standard needed to get back up.
No arguments that the team isn't remotely good enough for this level.
The more pressing concern though is our post Christmas form in the championship was also shocking (worse than mid-table), so we're quickly approaching a year of poor performances. I accept this team is going down regardless but if Bilic stays we will likely challenge Derby's record low points total and certainly concede over 100 goals. We look like conceding 5 or 6 every game. You look at say Cardiff the other year under Warnock who were also woefully unequipped for the premier but were at least competitive, we're not remotely competitive.
More pressing is that upon relegation once Diangana and Pereira are stripped from the side we will have a side that is not remotely close to the standard needed to get back up.
Last week 3-0 up swap Robinson for Robson-Kanu on the hour today 1-0 down exactly the same time exactly the same swap. Why??
The art of managing and coaching is to get the best out of what you have got at your disposal recognising what you do well and working on your weaknesses . All Bilic seems to be doing is changing shape and hoping it works .
There doesn’t seem to be much work being done on our shape and some of the players don’t understand where they are supposed to be when we are out of possession.
The ease at which Southampton played through us in the first half made me very uncomfortable , they are a midtable team but we didn’t look anywhere near their level.
There seems to be ignorance toward being hard to beat and like it or not that should be a pre requisite of a promoted team finding their feet .
Lads you could put Mourinho or Klopp in charge of this lot, the squad is simply not good enough.
He desperately needs good investment in the spine of the squad, starting with a GK, a centre back, a new captain, and a striker who the ball sticks to to allow the midfield to link with.
Watching Sawyers, Livermore, Johnstone (some good saves yes but awful flat footed again for first goal) and Bartley is enough to see we are heavily underpowered for this level.
We need some major late work in the window but with a silent owner, I hold little faith.
People saying we haven’t been right since Christmas, we haven’t been right since the Swansea game at the start of December - the final performance of the great early start. After that, we struggled against Wigan, Blues and Brentford and that was all pre Christmas. We have been very ordinary for 10 months now.
I said when he came that I had doubts. He proved me wrong early on but it increasingly looks like just a short good run of form.
He won’t last. He will be gone.
Bilic is the one driving the “let’s keep the same players as last season†, not the silent owner....bilic wanted ivanovic, Gallagher, Krov, Diangana, Pererira....he’s got them all, but he makes the decision on players and in what formation and he clearly is not good at strategy.
We have just played a Chelsea team that have spent over200m and will be top 4 ....the team that started scored 3 against them....so how about we change personnel and formation ?, not only ridiculous...but fully at the doorstep,of Billic and not the owners or Dowling...furlong was great against Chelsea ...dropped, Gallagher signed 2 weeks ago....not even on the bench....his management is woeful.
If the board backed manager I'd understand the criticism of Slaven but player's just ain't good enough. We can't even get rid of dead wood who are on ridiculous wages for what they bring to club. Dowling should be shown door and lad from Brentford should be brought in.
I cannot believe the criticism of bilic.
He's the best manager we could possibly hope for in the situation that we are currently in.
He identified Pereira.
He identified Diagana.
He spotted Krov.
Tulloch and Richards both signed new contracts when other bigger clubs were circling.
If you can't see the other players respect him and the youth players look up to him then you're watching the wrong game.
I find it hard to believe the people could criticise him and discuss replacements. He's not been backed.
Yes, he makes the odd decisions at times but he's the best manager we've had for a long long time .
I agree today that sawyrs and livermore as midfield pairing is just not good enough however to criticize him for picking O'Shea rather than Furlong just goes beyond belief.
O'shea is a good defensive right back and we are playing a back four today and not a 5 which had allowed Furlong a good attacking right back to push on. It is obvious why he did this.
If you asked Albion fans who needed moving on, we would all say Phillips, Austin, zohore. And those are the players Bilic has agreed to move on and that is clearly shown by the squads. He gets it. He sees it. But he is limited by a poor squad with a recruiting team constantly cutting corners and taking loans when we need to build for the future.
Robinson was shattered today after 60. Hence HRK. what choice does he have? Robinson ran his socks off. We couldn't keep the ball and were under pressure. I don't want HRK coming on, but what choice does Bilic have?
To criticize a manager with probably the smallest budget we have ever had in the prem is shameful. Our fans are turning into vile fans who have no patience and wild expectations.
I cannot believe the criticism of bilic.All about opinions.
He's the best manager we could possibly hope for in the situation that we are currently in.
He identified Pereira.
He identified Diagana.
He spotted Krov.
Tulloch and Richards both signed new contracts when other bigger clubs were circling.
If you can't see the other players respect him and the youth players look up to him then you're watching the wrong game.
I find it hard to believe the people could criticise him and discuss replacements. He's not been backed.
Yes, he makes the odd decisions at times but he's the best manager we've had for a long long time .
I agree today that sawyrs and livermore as midfield pairing is just not good enough however to criticize him for picking O'Shea rather than Furlong just goes beyond belief.
O'shea is a good defensive right back and we are playing a back four today and not a 5 which had allowed Furlong a good attacking right back to push on. It is obvious why he did this.
If you asked Albion fans who needed moving on, we would all say Phillips, Austin, zohore. And those are the players Bilic has agreed to move on and that is clearly shown by the squads. He gets it. He sees it. But he is limited by a poor squad with a recruiting team constantly cutting corners and taking loans when we need to build for the future.
Robinson was shattered today after 60. Hence HRK. what choice does he have? Robinson ran his socks off. We couldn't keep the ball and were under pressure. I don't want HRK coming on, but what choice does Bilic have?
To criticize a manager with probably the smallest budget we have ever had in the prem is shameful. Our fans are turning into vile fans who have no patience and wild expectations.
I cannot believe the criticism of bilic.
He's the best manager we could possibly hope for in the situation that we are currently in.
He identified Pereira.
He identified Diagana.
He spotted Krov.
Tulloch and Richards both signed new contracts when other bigger clubs were circling.
If you can't see the other players respect him and the youth players look up to him then you're watching the wrong game.
I find it hard to believe the people could criticise him and discuss replacements. He's not been backed.
Yes, he makes the odd decisions at times but he's the best manager we've had for a long long time .
I agree today that sawyrs and livermore as midfield pairing is just not good enough however to criticize him for picking O'Shea rather than Furlong just goes beyond belief.
O'shea is a good defensive right back and we are playing a back four today and not a 5 which had allowed Furlong a good attacking right back to push on. It is obvious why he did this.
If you asked Albion fans who needed moving on, we would all say Phillips, Austin, zohore. And those are the players Bilic has agreed to move on and that is clearly shown by the squads. He gets it. He sees it. But he is limited by a poor squad with a recruiting team constantly cutting corners and taking loans when we need to build for the future.
Robinson was shattered today after 60. Hence HRK. what choice does he have? Robinson ran his socks off. We couldn't keep the ball and were under pressure. I don't want HRK coming on, but what choice does Bilic have?
To criticize a manager with probably the smallest budget we have ever had in the prem is shameful. Our fans are turning into vile fans who have no patience and wild expectations.
What lad from Brentford?
What lad from Brentford?head of recruitment got an eye for quality player's on the cheap
head of recruitment got an eye for quality and player's on the cheap
If people want Bilic gone then fine but please be aware the replacement will be more Irvine than Guardiola. I still believe we are more than lucky to have him.Spot on. Be careful what you wish for.
If people want Bilic gone then fine but please be aware the replacement will be more Irvine than Guardiola. I still believe we are more than lucky to have him.
If people want Bilic gone then fine but please be aware the replacement will be more Irvine than Guardiola. I still believe we are more than lu4cky to have him.Another 4/5 more games with performances like that and the obvious issues not sorted I wouldn't be devastated if I'm honest but then I've never been fully swept away with the Bilic thing.
I doubt more than a couple want him gone but I'd say a lot are getting frustrated with his none media matchday performance. I'm looking for him to make several personnel changes to a team that is REALLY struggling.
The fact is that none of our players are good enough.
It doesn't matter what manager you have in charge we are just not good enough.
Today Diangana was guilty of not back tracking when Southampton were attacking. In fact one instance he gave up.
Pereria doesn't stand out in the premier like he did in the championship which gives the opinion he is just an average premier player.
As for the rest, some of them try hard but none are up to this standard of football. This season has relegation written all over it.
So it doesn't matter what system or what players Bilic decides to play. He is doing a good job with limited resources. We have not added any higher standard players than we had last season. We have a 36 year old ex premier defender and a loanee from Chelsea who has never experienced premier league football and now we are trying to sign an over priced striker who has never played in the premier league.
Hard facts but every one is true !!!
Just hope our points total doesn't look too embarrassing at the end of the season.
None of those things are facts, hard or soft.
If people want Bilic gone then fine but please be aware the replacement will be more Irvine than Guardiola. I still believe we are more than lucky to have him.
I think you will find they are fact. We are playing premier league teams with championship players.
At the end of the season we will be rock bottom of the premier league.
I think you will find they are fact. We are playing premier league teams with championship players.
At the end of the season we will be rock bottom of the premier league.
Nope, they're your opinions.
So you think our players are premiership quality ?
Fulham will finish below us guaranteed
Can someone point out to me what our blue print is under Bilic? We’re not a side that keeps possession of the football, we are incapable of containing and soaking pressure. There’s no press to our game. So what are we? It all looks a bit of a mess.
The performance today was akin to the Pulis days. If that’s the approach he wishes to take then we may as well sack him and hire Pulis himself to do it properly. What on earth makes him think that this team are capable of containing a side and soaking up periods of pressure. They cannot defend well as a team.
This squad is severely lacking in quality - I accept that. But I cannot accept a side which turns up with no idea, unable to put forward a competitive performance. There is no making the most of your resources. We’re easy to play against, easy to cut through and easy to defend against.
Not a good recipe.
I watched Fulham at Wolves today, looked far better than us. Robinson on his debut was powerful. Their keeper caught more crossed in the match than Johnstone has done in his Albion career. Lookman came off the bench and almost got them a point. We're on track for a Derby county style 11 point season and you have to feel for Bilic, not being given the tools to compete. This opening mini-season has been a disaster. Why would Andros Townsend or anyone else half-decent wasn't to sign for us?
If people want Bilic gone then fine but please be aware the replacement will be more Irvine than Guardiola. I still believe we are more than lucky to have him.
Slaven Bilić is lucky to have people like you Baggie79. Right now at this level, I’m seeing very little difference between Slaven Bilić and Alan Irvine.
I don’t for a minute think the board are totally sold on him either. If things don’t improve, I hope the recruitment of his successor isn’t as shambolic as the Moore/Jones sacking. Although 100% the right decision and I agreed with it at the time, the recruitment process afterwards was a complete joke.
Slaven Bilić is lucky to have people like you Baggie79. Right now at this level, I’m seeing very little difference between Slaven Bilić and Alan Irvine.
I don’t for a minute think the board are totally sold on him either. If things don’t improve, I hope the recruitment of his successor isn’t as shambolic as the Moore/Jones sacking. Although 100% the right decision and I agreed with it at the time, the recruitment process afterwards was a complete joke.
Regardless of personnel there are basics to football that should be a given under any coach so I ask myself this :
Do we consistently look motivated enough ?
Are we fit enough ? No
Is our passing of required standard ? At times but largely no .
Can we defend set pieces consistently well ? No
Do we look a threat at set pieces ? No
Do we look organised ? No
Are we easy to play against ? Yes
Quite a lot of work to do there regardless of personnel players can be coached to at least do the basics well.
.
Slaven Bilić is lucky to have people like you Baggie79. Right now at this level, I’m seeing very little difference between Slaven Bilić and Alan Irvine.You've got to be joking. Do you think we'd have attracted Pereira, Diangana etc under Irvine? And by all accounts, man motivation was not high on Irvine's list of virtues. Billic is trying to build a team with limited resources. I feel confident that Billic is identifying the right players. Besides Pereira, Diangana , he would have liked Watkins and Eze but we didn't have the resources. If Billic is given the chance to get his team on the pitch, I'm sure it will be far better to watch than any of the past 5 managers. By chopping and changing the manager every year we are back to square one again and there is never any continuity.
You've got to be joking. Do you think we'd have attracted Pereira, Diangana etc under Irvine? And by all accounts, man motivation was not high on Irvine's list of virtues. Billic is trying to build a team with limited resources. I feel confident that Billic is identifying the right players. Besides Pereira, Diangana , he would have liked Watkins and Eze but we didn't have the resources. If Billic is given the chance to get his team on the pitch, I'm sure it will be far better to watch than any of the past 5 managers. By chopping and changing the manager every year we are back to square one again and there is never any continuity.
Okay I did it.
We've taken 39 points from the last 90 available.
Awful.
My goodness, that’s bad.
Points to this being a long term internal issue and not one necessarily defined by recruitment.
Again what it points to is this group of players simply aren’t good enough.
You've got to be joking. Do you think we'd have attracted Pereira, Diangana etc under Irvine? And by all accounts, man motivation was not high on Irvine's list of virtues. Billic is trying to build a team with limited resources. I feel confident that Billic is identifying the right players. Besides Pereira, Diangana , he would have liked Watkins and Eze but we didn't have the resources. If Billic is given the chance to get his team on the pitch, I'm sure it will be far better to watch than any of the past 5 managers. By chopping and changing the manager every year we are back to square one again and there is never any continuity.
You've got to be joking. Do you think we'd have attracted Pereira, Diangana etc under Irvine? And by all accounts, man motivation was not high on Irvine's list of virtues. Billic is trying to build a team with limited resources. I feel confident that Billic is identifying the right players. Besides Pereira, Diangana , he would have liked Watkins and Eze but we didn't have the resources. If Billic is given the chance to get his team on the pitch, I'm sure it will be far better to watch than any of the past 5 managers. By chopping and changing the manager every year we are back to square one again and there is n our ever any continuity.
That's 30 games mate. It points to the manager not being able to get any consistency and not able to arrest poor form.
That's 30 games mate. It points to the manager not being able to get any consistency and not able to arrest poor form.
Irvine was a coach masquerading as a head coach.
Sounds like Bilic is a scout acting as one.
Irvine was not a competent manager and Bilic doesn’t appear to be one either.
Can everybody stop talking about facts when they are opinions.Struggling to see you're point but, based on you're facts, we are going down?
Here are some facts:
We are 17th
We have 1 point from 4 games.
There are 34 games left.
If we do better than the 3 teams below us, we will stay up.
Again what it points to is this group of players simply aren’t good enough.
So no blame on the players then, purely down to the manager?
Slaven Bilić is lucky to have people like you Baggie79. Right now at this level, I’m seeing very little difference between Slaven Bilić and Alan Irvine.Well in the last week Irvine has beaten wolves and Leicester 😄
I don’t for a minute think the board are totally sold on him either. If things don’t improve, I hope the recruitment of his successor isn’t as shambolic as the Moore/Jones sacking. Although 100% the right decision and I agreed with it at the time, the recruitment process afterwards was a complete joke.
There is only one bloke putting the players onto the pitch.
That 30 match record. Johnstone has played every minute. Sawyers and Livermore virtually every minute. Bartley, Kanu, Phillips, Townsend regular starters etc etc etc.
He can't get a free pass when he keeps picking dross.
Bilic is a big name so he can do no wrong, fact is he is no better(in fact probably worse) than Moore.
Every poor signing down to Dowling, good ones down to Slaven, well, the truth is that he picked a terrible side today and cost us any chance of victory.
If you disagree then back it up with facts rather than ` he hasn't been backed'
He blew a great chance today and He needs to own that.
There is only one bloke putting the players onto the pitch.Correct...and whilst we all may have a view on the formation and players..HE is the one that sends them out....he really has got enough there to keep us up comfortably.
That 30 match record. Johnstone has played every minute. Sawyers and Livermore virtually every minute. Bartley, Kanu, Phillips, Townsend regular starters etc etc etc.
He can't get a free pass when he keeps picking dross.
So you are calling Sawyers dross now? That’s a bit of a change of tune. :oHe clearly didn’t say that
He clearly didn’t say that
So you are calling Sawyers dross now? That’s a bit of a change of tune. :o
He clearly didn’t say that
There is only one bloke putting the players onto the pitch.
That 30 match record. Johnstone has played every minute. Sawyers and Livermore virtually every minute. Bartley, Kanu, Phillips, Townsend regular starters etc etc etc.
He can't get a free pass when he keeps picking dross.
There is no denying that he is not helping the situation in picking some of those mentioned above, however I still believe the squad is no where near good enough.
Take a look at our forward options.
Robinson is not a natural centre forward in my opinion, Austin was once a decent player, unfortunately his legs have gone.
Kanu and Zohore are both awful and would struggle to score twenty goals a season in league 2.
As a manager how would you facilitate two up front if you wanted to change formation with the options above.
Correct...and whilst we all may have a view on the formation and players..HE is the one that sends them out....he really has got enough there to keep us up comfortably.
I wouldn't. Sorry to be flippant, but it's a thing of the past in all the best teams.
Struggling to see you're point but, based on you're facts, we are going down?
What would have your starting XI been?This is exactly the problem. Bilic is no magician we simply have not added any quality to last season's squad. We have let him and the supporters down badly. I hope that the next 24 hours is more productive on the transfer front.
My point really was that there are facts and opinions and when somebody says Pereira is a championship player (to paraphrase) that is an opinion. In fact, he’s actually quite literally a Premier League player (they all are, to my surprise with some of them) and has certainly shown signs that he will be a good one - that last bit is an opinion.
It’s also my opinion that we need to vastly improve and that Bilic has the tools. You don’t skin a chicken with a whisk - he needs to start picking out best 11 and 433 will be the best system!
This is exactly the problem. Bilic is no magician we simply have not added any quality to last season's squad. We have let him and the supporters down badly. I hope that the next 24 hours is more productive on the transfer front.When you play Chelsea and score three against them in the first half...why would you change the next starting line up?
When you play Chelsea and score three against them in the first half...why would you change the next starting line up?
We will see after the next few games and maybe one or two additional players whether Bilic is capable of organising this squad into a team who can a least challenge a bit more. I had serious doubts about him in the second half of last season and just over half a point a game for the past 30 games speaks for itself. But he ultimately achieved above what I expected last year and is a good character so I'd love him to get it together. He's always reminded me of Robson who at least had the sense to employ a top training ground coach in Nigel Pearson whilst he was good at man management.
I'd be surprised if Slav is here in 10 games , simply because I cannot see him building us into a tight enough unit to win (m)any points. You can't hope you'll get points in this division , detail matters and I'm not sure Slav can cope at this level.
This season so far reminds me of the Mowbray prem season. Some flair players and alright going forward but absolute powderpuff at defending.
What would have your starting XI been?See the pre match thread
So if Villa go three from three including a win over the champions do we just accept that Gammon face is actually a managerial giant or might it be to do with improving the core of the team to the tune of £75 million on three players and paying Greasy and Barkley god knows what wages. They were awful last year but survived and improved. This division is all about quality players. Not saying Billic hasn't made errors, his team today was questionable, but they aren't the defining factor.
He's a ruthless manager.He's a manager who has been backed with a lot of money. He kept playing the same players last year that Villa fans couldn't understand. He has replaced them now he has money. He kept playing Wesley and others last year but has the money to be ruthless. He also should have been relegated if someone had turned on the goal line technology at Villa Park. fine margins...
He's a ruthless manager.
I do agree with you - but maybe he thought the replacements had the quality to see this through?He didn’t see it almost every match this calendar year ...
You have to think he will see it differently now?
He's a decent manager but struggled last year even though he spent some serious bunce which included £25 million + on a CB (we have got in a 36 year old free transfer). Easy to be ruthless when you have options. I don't see SB showing loyalty to SJ if a £20m keeper comes his way.
Villa have been spending a LOT of money - there's no point comparing managers. Smith barely kept them up last season despite spending loads, they've spent more money still and are off to a good start. Let's not pretend scoring 7 against the champions is a 'normal' result.
Thanks to their Director of Football, Johan Lange
Bilic has his faults but let's face it the squad is woefully short of quality for this level. Look at our summer signings so far. Only Ivanovic has any real top flight experience.
Oldbury24, “ Is it his money? Unusual for an owner to also be DOF.â€
I think you maybe confused, Johan Lange is not the vile owner, he is the DOF.
You replied to my comment about Villa spending a LOT of money and said it's thanks fo the DOF. Anybody can sign a cheque, but someone is putting a lot of money into Villa.
Can't disagree with picking the same team that put in a decent performance against Chelsea. With the international break coming up it also gives the new signings a chance to get an extra couple of training sessions in before our next game. If he still refuses to play new signings after the next couple of games then it's time to start asking questions about why not.But he didn’t
Can't disagree with picking the same team that put in a decent performance against Chelsea. With the international break coming up it also gives the new signings a chance to get an extra couple of training sessions in before our next game. If he still refuses to play new signings after the next couple of games then it's time to start asking questions about why not.
If people want Bilic gone then fine but please be aware the replacement will be more Irvine than Guardiola. I still believe we are more than lucky to have him.
This season so far reminds me of the Mowbray prem season. Some flair players and alright going forward but absolute powderpuff at defending.
Can't disagree with picking the same team that put in a decent performance against Chelsea. With the international break coming up it also gives the new signings a chance to get an extra couple of training sessions in before our next game. If he still refuses to play new signings after the next couple of games then it's time to start asking questions about why not.
Sorry but he's seemed a bit lost since the restart for me, his mood has changed and he appears to have no clue what system he wants to play in this league. Got it totally wrong yesterday and needs to take responsibility, not just keep bemoaning the lack of signings. Of the 3 he fought so hard for, and got, 1 came on once the game was lost and the other 2 didn't get a look in.
Worst of all was the sub.
Is there one single person on this board who, when we were building up a bit of a head of steam and getting back into the game thought "I know what we need now. Robson Kanu"?? Absolute nonsense of a sub. Bang on the hour, as usual, it's as if some of the subs are decided before we've even kicked off. Totally ruined our momentum and handed the initiative, and the game back to Saints.
He needs to get his mojo back because at the minute he looks devoid of ideas and motivation.
I am questioning a number of his decisions lately, but blimey, I certainly would not want the bloke gone.
Realistically, what hope has he got this season? He polished a serious turd of a squad last season, got us promoted with a spine of Johnstone, Bartley, Livermore and HRK, for which he probably deserves a medal and his budget this season to strengthen the entire squad is less than what 18 of the 20 teams are spending on a single player. As I say, what hope does he really have?
My feeling on Bilic are no secret, but unless some real shocks occur today Dowling and the recruitment team have failed miserably too.
Perhaps the biggest disaster of all of this is we will head back to the championship with pretty much the same spine! You could forgive it somewhat if we had set ourselves up to be competitive over the next few years but we haven’t.
I am questioning a number of his decisions lately, but blimey, I certainly would not want the bloke gone.
Realistically, what hope has he got this season? He polished a serious turd of a squad last season, got us promoted with a spine of Johnstone, Bartley, Livermore and HRK, for which he probably deserves a medal and his budget this season to strengthen the entire squad is less than what 18 of the 20 teams are spending on a single player. As I say, what hope does he really have?
Will give Slaven 10 games to judge season but have given up on owner who has got f all interest in this club. He should be rewarding Bilic with decent funds for getting club out of Championship a year a head of schedule again I'll ask the question where has all the money gone?We all know the owners are rubbish though mate and our budget is ******* compared to everyone else and so does Bilic. It's time he got his backside out of his hands and showed some fight! A good manager works with what he's got and at the minute he's failing miserably, he needs to stop moaning about what he hasn't got and focus on getting the best out of what he has. For someone who has a reputation as a good man manager and a bit of a philosopher I expect better.
Look what happened at the vile ! TheY sign up Ross Barkley, couple of days later he is straight into the team , and starring, against the champions at that. Why do we always have the need to get them “settled in “
We all know the owners are rubbish though mate and our budget is ******* compared to everyone else and so does Bilic. It's time he got his backside out of his hands and showed some fight! A good manager works with what he's got and at the minute he's failing miserably, he needs to stop moaning about what he hasn't got and focus on getting the best out of what he has. For someone who has a reputation as a good man manager and a bit of a philosopher I expect better.
My expectations of this season are zero in terms of staying up, what I do want to do though is enjoy it. I can take relegation as long as we give it a go and Bilic needs to lead from the top. At the minute he looks hopeless and depressed and that showed in yesterday's performance.
If he can get his mojo back and show some of that incredible passion and intelligence, that he clearly has for the game, then I'll back him whatever happens.
Was passionate at Everton and got sent off! Klopp was passionate yesterday while letting in 7. I don’t think he’s moaning he’s doing what every other manager does. He is asked about transfers every interview and says he wants better players. What’s he meant to do say “the squads great, we have not improved on the squad from last year but we will be totally fineâ€.I feel like that very often but I do my level best not to show it and always keep up a positive front to my team.
He could play a different system and get more out of the players but I don’t know how much more. He is struggling at the moment but wouldn’t you be a little fed up working at a job which feels like you can only do so much with what you have.
Let's face it who would blame him if he walked. Hes not been backed at allReally?
Really?
Diangana just for one example
You think paying 18m over 5 years is backing your manager ? In this league ? Come on mate ...Poster (trigger) said that Slav “had not been backed at allâ€...it’s not correct is it?
Barkley is a 50 mill pound footballer who Had already played for Chelsea this season. If he had come to the Hawthorns he would be straight in the team. Gallagher and Ivanovic went straight in against Brentford and we lost. Gallagher was I’ll yesterday and was not allowed to play against Chelsea in the other game he was available for.
Really?
Diangana just for one example
One player and its been paid in installments, who was already with us previous season. That's not being backed. We all know we haven't got a massive budget but I honest cant believe how little we have spent this season and how obvious how much we needed to.
You think paying 18m over 5 years is backing your manager ? In this league ? Come on mate ...
Really?
Diangana just for one example
Do you really think that West Ham are going to wait 5 years for their money?
Would you?
That’s not how it works. Even though they are paid in yearly instalments they can still record the full fee in their accounts for this summer and still spend it back out again. It’s common accounting practice and all signings have their fees paid over their contract.
Do you really think that West Ham are going to wait 5 years for their money?
Would you?
That’s not how it works. Even though they are paid in yearly instalments they can still record the full fee in their accounts for this summer and still spend it back out again. It’s common accounting practice and all signings have their fees paid over their contract.
Getting us our championship squad back that struggled to be the best in the league, by paying for Diangana in installments and taking Krov back on loan... that's what you would call backing your manager? add to that, Ivanovic who is older than God's dog and Gallagher on loan who could be our harvey barnes for this season or just as much chance of him being a complete flop for us.You argue that getting the same players as last year is not a positive, but then say that we have a good manager....this being the same manager that wanted the same players as last year
We could ALL see how much we struggled at the back end of last season and upto now with our performances and results in the prem so far and our activity in the transfer window so far, anyone who thinks Slav is being backed is deluded.
People (on here included) have slated and laughed at clubs such as wolves and villa who have spend a crazy amount compared to us.... yet those same teams look like they can compete in the league, I wouldn't even have faith in us competing in the championship again.
We have a handful of decent players and a decent manager, but unfortunately its bein run by complete clowns who don't give a sh*t and the bang average players out number the decent ones we have.
Why would you stay at a club who looks destined to be relegated and whose board have no intention of staying in this division?
He’s not going to want a relegation on his CV.
He must be absolutely livid and he has every right to be. We have pretty much the exact same squad as last season which limped across the finishing line.
We’re heading into a pivotal month in our campaign - which could define our season - and we still have failed to sign a striker..
Pretty much summed up my feelings as well.
Some will argue were waiting for Grant but for me that’s giving the incentive to Huddersfield.
What is mad is we haven’t used our domestic loan quota. Why?
Have the board lost faith in him and backtracked?
Could it be that Bilic was fully aware we had no money and gambled on Grady?
We look cheap and desperate. Another poster used the phrase about having our backsides tickled by Huddersfield and they’re spot on.
Where’s the forward planning and alternative options? If the deal cannot be done then move to the next target on Dowling’s endless list that he brags about.
I’m not even sure we can claim to have tried to sign him given the most recent talk is a loan deal. Could you imagine our reaction if someone wanted to loan Pereira next season? We’d laugh them out of town.
It looks a rather strange hill for Bilić and Dowling to die on..
We’ve put our eggs in this basket. By god I hope it works.
has the prem league loans window closed today ?
Our strategy was to NOT be successful in the loan window in my eyes now the whole saga has panned out.
Yes we signed Pereira and Diangana but only as investments. Barring a disaster we sell them on for a profit. Thats good business in the eyes of Lai and our board. Double your money in 12 months? Yes please.
There is nothing this board have done outside of these 2 deals, 1 of which was locked in, that suggested they were ever at all serious. If we had signed Eze we wouldnt even have been able to buy Button or Kipre!
Their actions betrayed their words throughout. They didn't even use the 2nd PL loan and it's not like we don't need it. Nothing makes sense.
Our strategy was to NOT be successful in the transfer window in my eyes now the whole saga has panned out.
Yes we signed Pereira and Diangana but only as investments. Barring a disaster we sell them on for a profit. Thats good business in the eyes of Lai and our board. Double your money in 12 months? Yes please.
There is nothing this board have done outside of these 2 deals, 1 of which was locked in, that suggested they were ever at all serious. If we had signed Eze we wouldnt even have been able to buy Button or Kipre!
Their actions betrayed their words throughout. They didn't even use the 2nd PL loan and it's not like we don't need it. Nothing makes sense.
While I agree with all this post in the sense that this was the board's thinking, do we actually think we'll get £24m+ for Diangana if we go down?
I think the board think they know exactly what they're doing, when in reality most of us on here know they are playing with fire.
The only thing that saves us from going down here is that Bilic walks and they pick a miracle of a next manager, which again we know is highly unlikely. Bilic won't get sacked in the short term either - in fact I could see the board keeping him all season even if we're 20th all season as a) don't want to pay compensation and b) he got us up so they will see him as the best man to get us back up - but he may well walk a long time before he is pushed. Whilst some of his decisions have been questionable more recently, you cannot question him if he walks.
You argue that getting the same players as last year is not a positive, but then say that we have a good manager....this being the same manager that wanted the same players as last year
You then state that Ivanovic is older than Gods dog....but again it’s the same manager that wanted him in, even ensuring that the local press absolutely knew that the signing of Kipre (not as old as Gods Dog) was not one he was behind ...
Funny isn’t it how some see things?
While I agree with all this post in the sense that this was the board's thinking, do we actually think we'll get £24m+ for Diangana if we go down?
I think the board think they know exactly what they're doing, when in reality most of us on here know they are playing with fire.
The only thing that saves us from going down here is that Bilic walks and they pick a miracle of a next manager, which again we know is highly unlikely. Bilic won't get sacked in the short term either - in fact I could see the board keeping him all season even if we're 20th all season as a) don't want to pay compensation and b) he got us up so they will see him as the best man to get us back up - but he may well walk a long time before he is pushed. Whilst some of his decisions have been questionable more recently, you cannot question him if he walks.
i predict he will walk at end of October citing "an impossible job" which will be hard to argue with. I can imagine him popping up at Fulham next.Who could blame Slav...trouble is us Albion supporters cannot walk. What makes me angry is who pocketed the 170 million ???? No prizes for who that was to get back 90% of what he paid for the Club ???
>:( Who could blame Slav...trouble is us Albion supporters cannot walk. What makes me angry is who pocketed the 170 million ???? No prizes for who that was to get back 90% of what he paid for the Club ??? >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(to be honest ill watch the games on box or streaming but won't be too bothered if we win, lose or draw. Absolute certainties to be relagated and will take a massive effort to get into double figures with points. Dingles and vile will steam roll us home and away this season.
i predict he will walk at end of October citing "an impossible job" which will be hard to argue with. I can imagine him popping up at Fulham next.
Who could blame Slav...trouble is us Albion supporters cannot walk. What makes me angry is who pocketed the 170 million ???? No prizes for who that was to get back 90% of what he paid for the Club ???
i would not be surprised to see Bilic walk or him got rid of and firefighter brought in (i do not want that, even if we go down barring a hideous season i would like Slav to stay
I couldn’t do another season in the Championship with Bilić. The guy isn’t up to the task.
Backed or Not . 1 win in our last 10 games (Harrogate) is simply not good enough. Good managers work out a system with what they have. Sheffield United on paper look like a Championship team but Wilder has a system. Burnley under Dyche the same. Leeds under Bielsa. I don't care about tippy tappy football we simply can't do that in this league. But a style like Crystal Palace under Roy is what I want. Strong at the back but productive on the counter. At the moment it feels like were back in 2008 under Mowbray.
I couldn’t do another season in the Championship with Bilić. The guy isn’t up to the task.
Utter nonsense. Where shall I start.Pereira's transfer was from last season, match day income £250.000 about £7.5 million annually.did you mention transfer fee's due to club? Off top of head Dawson, JRod and Rondon should pull in £25 million plus.
Firstly, it’s nothing like £170m. It’s more like £120m maximum, and a good chunk of it is receivable only in the 2nd half of the season. It is also very likely to be at least £20m
less than that, because of the lost revenue from the China TV rights deal.
Secondly, it’s not all extra money. We received around £40m in the Championship last season being the standard Championship distribution plus year 2 of the parachute money. It is only the difference between that £40m and the probable extra £60m-£70m that we will get from this season that is “extraâ€.
Thirdly, the squad from last season received a promotion bonus of around £20m which comes out of this year’s money, and their contracts also entitled them to big increases whilst in the Premier League (which is why it is so hard to shift the dead wood because nobody in the Championship can afford their doubled wages). Those doubled wages also come out of this year’s increased money.
Fourthly, we have signed Grady for up to £18m (around £12m upfront) plus Pereira (although that might have been paid from last season’s money - it’s not clear).
Fifthly, we have no gate money or season ticket money this season. That’s 19 home league games where we are missing out on around £10-15m of otherwise expected normal revenue which helps massively with the wage bill.
Finally, Lai can’t take money out of the club as owner under company by law unless he is owed money by the club (which he isn’t) or if there are distributable profits to distribute as dividends (there aren’t). There’s nothing available for him to take.
That’s where this season’s money is accounted for. The only other money which could be available is debt - loans from a commercial lender (how could the club repay it?) or loans from Lai (how would he get repaid ? Has he even got any money ? If he did have money, is he allowed to take it out of China ? No).
That’s why we can’t afford to spend on transfers and that’s why we are struggling to make the books balance. The extra money is already accounted for and that just highlights the gulf between the Championship and the Premier League. We are a small club amongst big clubs whether we like it or not. Unless we find a rich sugar daddy who will virtually donate money to the club (because it is not an “investmentâ€) this is us. Very similar to Norwich and Burnley. We have to punch above our weight and spend very wisely. Our scouting has to be a lot better to get value for our limited money.
Pereira's transfer was from last season, match day income £250.000 about £7.5 million annually.did you mention transfer fee's due to club? Off top of head Dawson, JRod and Rondon should pull in £25 million plus.
Don't forget the lower costs involved with having no match day crowds, fewer police, fewer stewards, lower bills, its not cheap to put a match day on.
And this idea that we don't have the money 'now' is rubbish. It's Premier League money and banks will advance it. Its not like raiding a piggy bank. Think about it, how come every other club in the league doesn't have the same problem of "we don't get the cash until second half of the transfer window".
And again with Lai can't take money out, of course he can. Dividends are pretty far down the list on methods of taking serious money out of corporations, he's not an self employed sparky.
If receiving (even) £120m means a maximum transfer budget of £25m we may as well stop now. We can all see quality players are now in the £15-£20m bracket so how can we ever afford to get a foot hold?
Honestly, it's tiring to keep reading how well run a club we are, how we balance the books etc, and yet we also seem to be one decent signing from going broke.
He clearly isn't, I mean it is not as if he got us promoted from that league or anything... :-X
Match day income a bit higher in the PL than in the Championship. We’d already borrowed against the Dawson fee to receive it early, and will have repaid that borrowing from the JRod or Rondon and already spent the balance although I think we also owed money out on Johnstone.Dawson fee was £4 million or there abouts, £10 million for Rodriguez of which £5 million upfront with other £5 million this season and Rondons fee of over £16 million. Where do you reckon club spent all this money when overdraft was only £7 million and wages and running cost of club was covered by parachute payment including transfers.
Jacko
Yes, but the money lost isn't just the ticket revenue money. Here...
ticket money - costs = profit
So anyone quoting the lost ticket revenue as total money lost isn't correct - it's lost ticket money MINUS the costs. Not at any point did I suggest that we make a loss putting a game on.
And I've no idea why you think I'm wrong. I know 100% that this is true from having two companies that the accountant moved money between them by issuing management fees. We could easily take money out of both but if someone looked at just one of them you'd see everything accounted for. The same happened at another company I worked for - they had a parent company, two child companies, and money was moved between them.
I'm not saying that is even what Lai has done or will do - I'm saying you're wrong to say "literally the only way to get money out of a company is via dividends".
Backed or Not . 1 win in our last 10 games (Harrogate) is simply not good enough. Good managers work out a system with what they have. Sheffield United on paper look like a Championship team but Wilder has a system. Burnley under Dyche the same. Leeds under Bielsa. I don't care about tippy tappy football we simply can't do that in this league. But a style like Crystal Palace under Roy is what I want. Strong at the back but productive on the counter. At the moment it feels like were back in 2008 under Mowbray.
The squad is there, but is the manager? I don’t think so under Bilić unless he adapts a much better system.
Which is why I can see him walking. He won’t want to have a relation on his CV especially when it’s not his fault.Why do people think it’s not Bilics fault ??
I understand we don’t have much money, but to not buy at least a striker either means Bilic has been lied to or he’s gone mad and thinks we’re ok with what we’ve got.
I know which option I think it is.
Why do people think it’s not Bilics fault ??
Because I don't think all Bilic has asked for has been the same players as last season, a couple of squad players and Grant.
Let's face it, the board might be 100% right that there's no more money available. And Bilic is absolutely right that we need more players. In which case it's not really anyone's fault that we're in the position we're in. I don't think bringing in a new manager will suddenly mean SJ, Bartley and co are Premierleague players.
Our main problem is that the players who were brought in last summer to score the goals have been a total failure. And to compound that club don't seem to be able to get rid of them.
A lot of our current problems are down to Bilic though. Ever since lockdown he has struggled finding the right formation and personnel and has looked edgy and negative.
He needs to do two things for me:
1) Focus on his strengths: Man-management, motivation, inspiration, experience.
2) Focus on the strengths of the squad we have! We have good players, we are not the bunch of no-hopers that some make out. How does he think the constant "We need more, more, more" rhetoric affects the current squad, who he said himself, by the way, deserve the chance to prove themselves?
On paper, Sheff Utd. are no stronger than us. They certainly don't have the likes of Pereira and Diangana. What they do have is a clear purpose, a settled approach, good team spirit and, above all, a manager who believes in them.
Bilic needs to shake off his blues and get his head back in the game, as in what happens on the pitch, not off it.
Do that and we have every chance of competing in this league.
I couldn’t do another season in the Championship with Bilić. The guy isn’t up to the task.
Whilst I respect all other views I really do struggle with this one. I am fully aware of the recent statistics and they have all been games with Bilic in charge. But what about other displays under his stewardship? I saw some of the best football seen by my team in many years. How can we say he is not up to the task of managing in the lower league??
We’re above Sheff Utd in the league table, they have zero points. We should have 3 points but unlike the other 19 clubs in the league we don’t have a keeper worthy of the name.They have also proven they can compete in this league, which a lot of people think we cannot. I think we can.
I find it depressing to read the anti Billic posts on here. What support did he get from the board to strengthen the squad, one loan and a free. I hope we stick with him long term, the chopping and changing of manager just keeps resetting us back to square one.Not many anti Bilic posts from what I can see.
I think you can be critical of both Bilic and the board at the same time, you don't have to pick sides.What is this? Common sense?
For instance, the squad is the same as last season which obviously isn't good enough. At the same time, Bilic does have some fundamental errors which should be highlighted.
They have also proven they can compete in this league, which a lot of people think we cannot. I think we can.
I don't think we have a chance of competing in the top flight until we have a decent keeper, regardless of the system that Bilic opts for.
Grosicki scored an international hatrick in 36 minutes so will Bilic eat humble pie and at least give him a reasonable period of game time?
I find it depressing to read the anti Billic posts on here. What support did he get from the board to strengthen the squad, one loan and a free. I hope we stick with him long term, the chopping and changing of manager just keeps resetting us back to square one.
Criticising Bilić does not make you anti Bilić.I'm not anti Bilic , I wouldn't say I was swept away with him either .
The quality of this side might not be the great but that does not make him immune to criticism.
I'm not anti Bilic , I wouldn't say I was swept away with him either .Very well put, unfortunately theses days the minute you have an opinion you are labelled in/out ...
I look for performances and points total , 39 from 90 since Xmas isn't great no matter how much current cash issues arise.
I for one am more than happy with Slaven as our manager, a starting point for me is to look at the individual improvements in players and nobody can argue most players have improved, not all I agree, but the youngsters at the club have literally took off.
I am also aware of a few shortfalls in his tactical awareness sometimes, and he does get very emotional and distracted during the match at times.
But where we are as a club at the moment and the other viable alternatives as well as some of the past managers we have employed, I'm more than happy.
I also think there is a very real possibility he could walk if we have no striker signing by next week.
I really think we are moving in the right direction and nobody expects there to be no mistakes made along the way, but we could be the vile and mis out on relegation by default having spent over 100 million in the transfer market.
We could always ask Pulis back to keep us up.
I for one am more than happy with Slaven as our manager, a starting point for me is to look at the individual improvements in players and nobody can argue most players have improved.
I’ll bite. Which players has he improved?
these are only my opinions of coarse and sorry if you've had to bite, so my opinions:
The end of the season before last id have gladly given Livermore, Bartley and HRK away on a free, but Imo all three improved to the stage where they had a not to small part in our promotion.
Id never heard of Nathan Ferguson and didn't give much thought to O'shea.
There wasn't exactly a long question of clubs waiting to sign Periera, who is now our most valuable asset.
Diaganna may have had potential but has improved in nearly every game.
I know the season has not started well and these are my thoughts from last season.
Great post, agreed on all counts.
Apart from the bit about Poooliss ;) .
Can we please finally bin "Premiership"? There is no such thing, how long does it take to sink in? It is the PREMIER LEAGUE!
For God's sake, can we actually recognise that now?
Can we please finally bin "Premiership"? There is no such thing, how long does it take to sink in? It is the PREMIER LEAGUE!Who cares?😂
For God's sake, can we actually recognise that now?
Strange thing to get so excited about ! Are you ok?
Looked nervous with pre match interview, happy with team selection but substitions offered nothing and baffled by Philips still being given a chance bloke is shot at this level.
Phillips came on with what 4 minutes left? Just a case of getting some fresh legs out wide to push them back. The set-up tonight could not be faulted IMV. Bilic knows we are outgunned by almost all of the teams in the league and that competing at this level is tough. Sensible decision to choose physicality at the back against Burnley and the front four players pick themselves, although Robinson was unlucky to be dropped.
Robinson hadn’t trained because of the COVID problem. Think would have started otherwiseSo the question is...who starts next match?
To tinker or not to tinker? so put yourself in Slav's position whereby we have cover in most positions now, should Slav
a) play our strongest team every game and let opposition worry about us
b) adapt to the perceived strengths / weaknesses of the opposition
c) Only tinker with defence / defensive midfield as we need our best lads up front and that (front 4) is the strength of this squad
My opinion is that he should always play the strongest team available to him, there are no easy teams, therefore, no easy games in this division
The only changes I'd make is O'Shea in for Furlong and Gibbs in for Townsend with space on bench for Field who is our only natural defensive midfielder.
My opinion is that he should always play the strongest team available to him, there are no easy teams, therefore, no easy games in this division
Still think billic is doing a solid job his turnover of squad an investment in younger hungrier technically better players has been very good.
Still loads of players who aren't billics. Come summer gibbs Townsend Austin HRK peltier bond bartley all out of contract.
He has the chance to sign his own left back and another striker. Then of the old pulis days we will only have Phillips and Livermore left
O'Shea really is learning on the job and is not a natural RB but I do like the team to have that ability to drop into a back three freeing up one of the full backs to get further forward. Although i'm not sure we have the right balance in any combination.Slaven likes the option of three central defenders when we are attacking did it alot with Ferguson and O'Shea last season nice spot. With regards to Field has any manager really given him a chance? Boy needs game time.
Field does not seem to gain the absolute confidence of any manager. Why? Is subject to much conjecture but when playing alongside Livernore and Brunt in CM under DM he really struggled to provide the legs i expected. If he doesn't come through this year we really do need to invest in a DM regardless of division to improve the squad.
Not to mention Bilic himself.
That's the next contract we need to be sorting out. Its whether or not he believes in the project still.
That's the next contract we need to be sorting out. Its whether or not he believes in the project still.
He basically looks like a idiot after his comments about Hegazi the other day.
Joseph Masi Twitter Account
On route to Brighton but aware of the reports saying Bilic is far from happy with the sale of Ahmed Hegazi. Bilic will be asked about those stories and how he feels about Hegazi's departure post match. #wba
I referenced this in the Hegazi thread, we may have another problem looming large
I'm none fussed if he stays or goes to be honest. We're not going to stay up anyway so it's all a bit of a moot point.
His tactics aren't great and neither is his decision making.
He knew what he signed up for and would have known the budget before the end of last season so he either gets on with it or he walks.
All i'm fussed about is getting more than the lowest points total ;D
Got more than enough to stay up! Why are baggies fans so pessimistic!!!!
Based on tonight’s performance so far, I think we’re certainties to go down.
erm, based on 2nd half we are mid table
I'm none fussed if he stays or goes to be honest. We're not going to stay up anyway so it's all a bit of a moot point.Snap...I wouldn’t be overly fussed if he went.
His tactics aren't great and neither is his decision making.
He knew what he signed up for and would have known the budget before the end of last season so he either gets on with it or he walks.
All i'm fussed about is getting more than the lowest points total ;D
Just confirmed Hegazi was sold against his and the players wishes. Trouble ahead I fear.Regardless of what was said there’s no way Hegazi didn’t want to go. He could absolutely have turned the deal down, especially if Bilic wanted to keep him.
Joseph Masi Twitter Account
Asked Slaven if he could assure fans he is staying. This was his answer: I'm only disappointed with Hegazi’s departure because I had been assured he was staying. I wanted him to stay, he wanted to stay. To lose him on Sunday - to find that out - made me really disappointed
Joseph Masi Twitter Account
Asked Slaven if he could assure fans he is staying. This was his answer: I'm only disappointed with Hegazi’s departure because I had been assured he was staying. I wanted him to stay, he wanted to stay. To lose him on Sunday - to find that out - made me really disappointed
Not good at all. Suspect parting of the ways is not far away.
He's just voicing his disappointment - that's all. But this isn't anything new, is it? He knows what the owners are like.
Watching him on the touchline, it didn't look like a man who is thinking about walking. Not one bit.
This is what Dowling said about Bilic in June.He does sound disappointed, but perhaps its just a shot across the bows in the direction of the hirearchy to make sure they know. On the plus side, he was able to bring Diangana, Krov and Robinson back and he's got Ivanovic and Gallagher in.
Hardly going to undermine him now.
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/06/12/luke-dowling-slaven-bilic-is-the-real-west-brom-deal/ (https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/06/12/luke-dowling-slaven-bilic-is-the-real-west-brom-deal/)
Perhaps Hegazi was given an offer he couldn't turn down
So frustrating. If he was taken by surprise by this then it should have never happened. It’s really put him in an awkward position. Arguably this means that he is unlikely to stay beyond his contract. Gutting.Agreed. The bit I didn't understand though was that he said Hegazi wanted to stay. Why didn't he then?
Agreed. The bit I didn't understand though was that he said Hegazi wanted to stay. Why didn't he then?
I feel like his transparency makes him even more likeable and he really represents the fans and the team but the worry there is that it slowly becomes a divided club again, the board and Dowling Vs everybody else.
Of course, the best way Slav can shut them up and have all fans behind him is by keeping us out of the bottom 3 and getting some crucial wins on board.
I think he is disappointed, but I think financially, it was too good an opportunity to miss, it appears he was surprised, but, he has also been backed in many areas, we can't have what we want all the time.
Slav wont be here much longer, I think Lai wants him to walk to save money so he can employ a cheap, low ambition coach, this will fit in with what he's done on the playing side in stripping out the higher earnersI read some stuff on here and despair..
Can see Pulis back at club as owner will be clutching at straws and with no fans in terraces to object to his appointment.I could see that. What a state of affairs!
Can see Pulis back at club as owner will be clutching at straws and with no fans in terraces to object to his appointment.That's not even funny!
No post match interview with Slav on our website or social media tonight just Livermore :-[He gave a good interview on the BBC.
He gave a good interview on the BBC.on sky sports app near
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/54699444
The suggestion that Bilic is going to walk out because of this are laughable! Is he inebriated off with what happened? Yes, but it's not like we've just done a West Ham and sold Diangana!? If Bilic thinks Hegazi leaving is more important than the club signing Pereira, Grady, Robinson, Krov and Grant, then frankly he can go tomorrow for all I care.
Although I disagree how its been done, I think the board have done this in the clubs best interests. Fact is, Bilic wants to sign more players but we don't have the funds to do so. Will happily hold my hands up if it doesn't happen, but from where I'm seeing things, the club have done everything they can (within the limitations we have under Lai) to get the players he wanted.
I read some stuff on here and despair..Think you've put a few words in my mouth there. Slav is not the saviour just our current coach who got us promoted with a less than impressive forward line so deserves a fair crack. I see clear limitations in Slav's approach but think if we went with an 'Allardyce' type (shudder) I would hate to watch us as well as us still struggling badly to stay up.
You think Lai wants Slav to walk....after investing in all the players that Slav apparently demanded that we bring in ?
Why oh why do so many people hold Bilić as the saviour of West Brom....but also manage to mention on another thread that this “saviour†keeps throwing Matt Phillips on?
He hardly played Hegazi....Bilic cannot pretend that’s this transfer came out of the blue....he could look on here 3 weeks ago people were talking about it .
I’ve said before , he’s good at playing his own PR game....tonight he seems to have many in his hand.
1 win in 13 games, most in the Championship and that win came against Harrowgate.
He's got the players he wanted and we have been very poor for about 4 months.
I'd say he's on borrowed time.
Exactly how I feel.
We’ve simply been poor since January and limped over the line for promotion.
Can see Pulis back at club as owner will be clutching at straws and with no fans in terraces to object to his appointment.
It's one thing to wear your heart on your sleeve and be "honest", it's another to publicly disrespect your employers, and completely unnecessary in my view. If Lai or Ken came out and told Sky Sports that they thought Bilic's team selection and tactics, in the first half last night, were awful, he would be up in arms, even though they would probably be being "honest"!That is precisely what Dowling , Bilic, and Ken need to do, and cut out the squabbling here and now. Jenkins eluded to differences when he left, and whatever the outcome, Dowling and Bilic must both put the club first. If the very clear issues between Dowling and Bilic cannot be resolved , something has to give, and it won't be Dowling.
I just don't see how anyone benefits from this outburst, especially after a very good second half and a lot of positives, he's just brought the mood down again and, to be honest, I'm fed up with his negativity.
If we were playing well, consistently, getting results and a bit higher up the league, he may get a bit more leeway, but we are not, we are on a pretty awful run, so he is on thin ice for me and should focus on his job which is to get the players playing and winning games.
JFGOWI
Debated posting this as I've never had any sort of ITK on Albion before. However....Whilst not beyond the realms it would be a strange decision at this stage, especially after he has been backed so much with his choice of transfers.
Last night my brother was watching the game with a couple of mates and some of their friends who he didn't know. Turns out one of them is the agent for a player who has been at Albion for the last few season, and is still the agent for a current member of the first 11. I've since checked this before posting anything and it either was their agent, or someone pretending to be their agent to the point where he had the agents name, back story, same local non league clubs played for etc, and also had the rest of the guys there confirming he was the agent. Without posting further details which would basically confirm who it was and the players in question, I'm 99.9% that at the very least this guy is the agent of a current high profile player in the team.
He claims that if Bilic lost last night then he was gone but the draw will get him the Fulham game. However lose that and unless something dramatic changes between now and then he will be gone then. Said it was the clubs decision rather than Bilic, but makes you wonder with Bilic comments if he was aware of the situation so was happy to make his feeling on Hegazi and the boards actions perfectly clear in public.
I asked wether this was just this guys opinion/hunch, or of he actually had info confirming this. He never said directly along the lines of 'I know this is 100% fact...', but apparently it had been talked about & discussed and was common knowledge amongst the players that it was a definite possibility.
As I say, this could all be total rubbish and the guy was just showing off, but I am as sure as you can be that the person in question is the agent a nd has the connections he claimed. Wether he was making it all up or not is anyones guess, but he claims that if we lose to Fulham then Bilic is gone, and would have been sacked if we lost last night.
Whilst not beyond the realms it would be a strange decision at this stage, especially after he has been backed so much with his choice of transfers.
I guess we'll never know if we beat Fulham. If we lose and he goes then, hopefully, the board have done their homework and have someone lined up. If finding a replacement takes as long as getting Grant, the January window will be closed by the time they are in place.
Whilst not beyond the realms it would be a strange decision at this stage, especially after he has been backed so much with his choice of transfers.
I guess we'll never know if we beat Fulham. If we lose and he goes then, hopefully, the board have done their homework and have someone lined up. If finding a replacement takes as long as getting Grant, the January window will be closed by the time they are in place.
I honestly don't see the point in sacking Bilic.
While I know he makes some questionable decisions, who is available out there that is actually going to come in and keep a sub-standard team like ours in the division? (I had a few examples here, but then the post would be removed for speculating about the next manager).
And you know we aren't going to pay out money to get anybody who is currently in a job.
Could be if Bilic went, we'd just collapse.
Exactly how I feel.Old saying of 'be careful what you wish for'
We’ve simply been poor since January and limped over the line for promotion.
If the players were aware of the possible consequences for the manager of a defeat against Brighton, then the way they performed in the first half would suggest they weren't bothered if the manager went. But, the way they played in the second half suggests the opposite. I'd favour the latter but I struggle to explain the first half, when they did look as if they couldn't give a monkey's.I don't think it's a question of not giving a monkey's mate, it's just a question of all players playing to the best of their ability.
It's pretty impossible to "collapse" when you"ve won one game in thirteen. Who'd notice?
It will be interesting to see what happens if we lose against Fulham. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if Lai orders Bilic's dismissal.
I like Bilic and would like to see him given time in the job and try and build something, however modern football doesnt work like that.
I have had a sneaky feeling since the end of last season that he will be gone by Xmas unless we are looking very safe and halfway up the league (which is unlikely)
My personal theory is we got Bilic because he has contacts, he is high profile, he plays good football and in the championship with the squad we had we were expected to win most games, he was the man to do that.
However now we are in the premier league we will be looking to target certain games and pick up points here and there, that is why i have a feeling a Allardyce or somebody like that will be in charge by xmas.
Lai doesnt care about building for the long term, nice football, etc we are back in the big league now on the gravy train, his aim will be to make sure we are in the premier league every season, its money in the bank and makes us more appealing to buyers so he can at least get his money back.
I think if he knew then what he did now he wouldnt of trusted Williams to get rid of Pulis, when he first took over there were plans for us to be big in the far east, increase his chances of an investment return, within 12 months we were relegated, nobody in the far east gave a stuff and he had lost half his investment with the club value!
I have said previous i think when we went down the aim was reduce the wage bill and get us back in the premier league asap under whatever circumstances, thats why i think we focused mainly on the british transfer market, the safest option.
Now we are there we have reduced the wage bill, got a younger squad with resale value, i think the next step will be to take the safest option to protect that which would be to get a Big Sam in, he could mould most groups of premier league players into a team that avoids relegation.
Although i am pleased with the Hegazi sale, i also think it was disrespectful how it was handled, Slav seemed genuinely in shock that he had gone, i have no doubt he used the media to suit himself too but you would think a manager / head coach would know one of their players was being sold, actions like that dont give you much faith all is well.
(it probably did him a favour as Ajayi's pace was crucial against Brighton, Ivanovic and Hegazi would of got tore a new one but thats not the point!)
Barring a disastrous season i hope Slav is here next year, yes he makes mistakes but so does every manager, we have young exciting players, this season is going to be hard and if we stay up we have done well but would like to see what he could do with this squad and then the next step once some more of the big earners go (HRK, Phillips, etc) but sadly i think the club will go safety first, to us fans its a club, to the owners its a business.
Beyond the likes of Livermore, I can't see many Allardyce-type players in our present squad so I doubt he would take the job for which I'm thankful.
I'm not saying we could/should change managers but keeping things on track (nods to Mods) I think you're overlooking a few others. Bilic and Big Sam have more in common than Jake player wise.Good observations mate. It could happen. Sadly I think an appointment like that is what is needed to have a chance of staying in this vile league. Me, I will be quite happy to resume home and away in the Championship, which is where we should build a proper team, with our own players fit to have a proper go at the Premier league. Under the current ownership we are never going to be spending sufficiently to do it any other way.
After Liivermore, Ivanovic is an experienced and wizened head and Sam categorically loves a war horse. Kipre's strong and powerful while O'Shea's a bit of a throw back defender. A lot of Sam's Bolton side could play football too, something which Bilic is a fan of.
Our Djorkaev and Okoche are Krovinovic and Pereira while Gallagher brings the legs and work rate often associated with 'Allardici' sides. Sam likes wide men to hit teams on the break and Slaven's assemled several of those to supply the recently signed Grant.
Karlan has exampled heading prowess and the strength to hold players off and finish with power (Davies). When HRK comes back into the fold he could come off the bench (Carlton Cole from Sam's West Ham days), we're not that far from having a Samable squad.
Just saying...... :-X .
I'm not saying we could/should change managers but keeping things on track (nods to Mods) I think you're overlooking a few others. Bilic and Big Sam have more in common than Jake player wise.
After Liivermore, Ivanovic is an experienced and wizened head and Sam categorically loves a war horse. Kipre's strong and powerful while O'Shea's a bit of a throw back defender. A lot of Sam's Bolton side could play football too, something which Bilic is a fan of.
Our Djorkaev and Okoche are Krovinovic and Pereira while Gallagher brings the legs and work rate often associated with 'Allardici' sides. Sam likes wide men to hit teams on the break and Slaven's assemled several of those to supply the recently signed Grant.
Karlan has exampled heading prowess and the strength to hold players off and finish with power (Davies). When HRK comes back into the fold he could come off the bench (Carlton Cole from Sam's West Ham days), we're not that far from having a Samable squad.
Just saying...... :-X .
Can I be blunt, Dan you can FRO with that theory and right sharpish like! We have had Pulis and Pardew, i thought we had exhausted the supply of Dinosaurs and you have the bleeding audacity to come up with that !!
You can forget Guiness and Starpromen, you'll be lucky to get a can of Boddingtons if you continue in this vein.
Some of our fans can't wait to have a dinosaur in charge.....
Sincerely hope you're not including me in their number. I was just idling away the time and pointing out the idea isn't completely out of the park in terms of the players currently at our disposal :) .And you had the temerity to accuse ME of having too much time on my hands! :P
Sincerely hope you're not including me in their number. I was just idling away the time and pointing out the idea isn't completely out of the park in terms of the players currently at our disposal :) .
And you had the temerity to accuse ME of having too much time on my hands! :P
It wasn't a dig at anybody in particular. I've just seen a few Albion fans with short memories clamouring for another dinosaur-type in charge to make sure we stay up, and it's really aggravating me.Fully agree. I've certainly had enough dinosaur-type managers to last a few decennia. If it were to happen again, I think I'd be driven to finding a more exciting leisure time activity. Such as stamp-collecting.
Old saying of 'be careful what you wish for'Why...?
Given our record of managerial appointments - Irvine, Mel, Pulis, Pardew, Moore etc I wouldn't be too quick to see Slav gone.
Think you've put a few words in my mouth there. Slav is not the saviour just our current coach who got us promoted with a less than impressive forward line so deserves a fair crack. I see clear limitations in Slav's approach but think if we went with an 'Allardyce' type (shudder) I would hate to watch us as well as us still struggling badly to stay up.Genuinely not specifically aimed at you....but there does appear to be a few that hold him in really high esteem....and I don’t get what he’s done that is so fabulous..
The club are cutting wages and ages, that's clear. My comment was that the club are clearly stripping away costs (for obvious reasons and which is Lai's prerogative as it's his investment). Bilic could be seen as a fairly expensive coach (around 2m a year) compared to say an Alan Irvine type who was on 500k a year - all reportedly of course.
Just saying - my words
Whilst Hegazi may not have cemented a starting place, its a squad game, and Billic would have very much pencilled Hegazi in as part of that squad. Its almost inevitable that central defenders pick up suspensions and injuries, so we are short in that area when it happens. I hope though that Ivanovic and Ajayi can get us through to the January window, and that Billic is then allowed to pick up some kind of replacement with the cash for Hegazi.So would the “squad game†be more pertinent in the champ or the prem?
If you look at the transfer window overall, Billic did get his wish to bring in Krovinovic, Robinson, Grant, Ivanovic, Gallagher and most importantly Diangana, when that looked impossible. So Billic can't grumble too much, although Hegazi going after the window had closed will have been a rude shock.
If the team can start gelling together and picking up points hopefully Billic will be able to put this behind him.
Genuinely not specifically aimed at you....but there does appear to be a few that hold him in really high esteem....and I don’t get what he’s done that is so fabulous..1. Got promoted in 1 year when the target was 2 years
Genuinely not specifically aimed at you....but there does appear to be a few that hold him in really high esteem....and I don’t get what he’s done that is so fabulous..
1. Got promoted in 1 year when the target was 2 years
2. Attracted the best player in 20 years to the club (MP)
3. Raised the clubs profile
4. Played attractive / entertaining football
Thats fabulous from where we have been !
So would the “squad game†be more pertinent in the champ or the prem?Both. Probably more so in the Prem as the quality of the opposition is better.
And he hardly played him last season ..
1. Got promoted in 1 year when the target was 2 years
2. Attracted the best player in 20 years to the club (MP)
3. Raised the clubs profile
4. Played attractive / entertaining football
Thats fabulous from where we have been !
Correct, if we don't follow through on support for Bilic, it will be criminal mismanagement, we have set a course that the fans clamoured for and now we must follow that path, rough or smooth for at least the next two seasons.What about Bilic's negativity?
I really don't get the negativity, it's like a disease that really is not required.
Whilst Hegazi may not have cemented a starting place, its a squad game, and Billic would have very much pencilled Hegazi in as part of that squad. Its almost inevitable that central defenders pick up suspensions and injuries, so we are short in that area when it happens. I hope though that Ivanovic and Ajayi can get us through to the January window, and that Billic is then allowed to pick up some kind of replacement with the cash for Hegazi.
If you look at the transfer window overall, Billic did get his wish to bring in Krovinovic, Robinson, Grant, Ivanovic, Gallagher and most importantly Diangana, when that looked impossible. So Billic can't grumble too much, although Hegazi going after the window had closed will have been a rude shock.
If the team can start gelling together and picking up points hopefully Billic will be able to put this behind him.
It's a squad game. Indeed !!!! Well we are down to 24 now I believe and if Grosicki goes to Forest we will be down to 23Use the Hegazi money to get Wilshere in on a 1 year deal.
Use the Hegazi money to get Wilshere in on a 1 year deal.A Sturridge sized mistake IMO
1. Got promoted in 1 year when the target was 2 years
2. Attracted the best player in 20 years to the club (MP)
3. Raised the clubs profile
4. Played attractive / entertaining football
Thats fabulous from where we have been !
Graeme Dorrans had a better season than MP during our 2009/2010 promotion season. He scored 18 goals that season and was very much the key player in our automatic promotion. Awesome.
Still early days to judge whether MP will be a consistent performer at Premier League level.
In terms of attracting the best players in 20 years, for me personally Jonny Evans for £6million from Manchester United takes some beating in terms of quality.
He was rubbish.....
..... once he started to sulk, prior to that he was quality. There are more comfortable hills to die on than this one.If I remember he had personal problems? He never settled after. I meant Dorrans.
Why...?Who exactly do you want then? Allardyce? Howe?
Do you think his record is good?
He was rubbish, and that is (as the Americans say) a hill I am prepared to die on.
The best current players we have were all bought in by Bilic though.
At the time we were an established Premier League club with the ability to sign a Manchester United academy graduate who’d won 3 Premier League titles and had plenty of experience playing in the Champions League whilst at the club. We purchased him for £6million when he was 27 years of age.
His solid performances at the top level during the 89 appearances he made in an Albion shirt didn’t go unnoticed. Man City and Arsenal made bids of £20million+ for him, but he ultimately went on to sign for Leicester City when they activated a clause in his contract following our relegation. He played 38 games last season and the Foxes enjoyed their best season since winning the title 5 years ago.
The signing of Jonny Evans was a great coup for us and showed how far we’d come as a club.
Some of our fans can't wait to have a dinosaur in charge, as though it's the answer to all our problems. It's only a short-term solution, if it works at all. And btw, it's possible to stay up and play good football, they're not mutually exclusive.
Some people forget the damage done to this football club by Pulis; it wasn't just the style of play, it was reputation. Nobody wanted to play us but nobody wanted to watch us, the attendances fell, and we struggled to attract new fans.
It isn't worth staying in the Premier League now if we put off all the fans that could be following us in 20-30 years.
For me this is an excellent post. Regardless of track records of keeping clubs in the premier league we would be beyond foolish to make another Pulis type appointment. How people can just dismiss the fact that Bilic achieved promotion in his first season is beyond me. We played some great football and achieved the objective one year ahead of the plan. What exactly do some people want? Cannot believe he is on the brink of dismissal as suggested earlier. The mind just boggles.
For me this is an excellent post. Regardless of track records of keeping clubs in the premier league we would be beyond foolish to make another Pulis type appointment. How people can just dismiss the fact that Bilic achieved promotion in his first season is beyond me. We played some great football and achieved the objective one year ahead of the plan. What exactly do some people want? Cannot believe he is on the brink of dismissal as suggested earlier. The mind just boggles.
Darren Moore and Jimmy Shan, two coaches with no first team managerial experience whatsoever, got us placed in 4th position and into the playoffs only the season before.Pure conjecture on my part but if Bilic had Gayle and/or Rod last season we would have won that league comfortably.
Let that boggle your mind. Two blokes with no managerial experience placing us 4th on their managerial debuts.
Then we have Slaven Bilić, who has managerial experience at international level and also European level including the Premier League. Who, might I add, we’ve played consistently poor under all of this year.
Pure conjecture on my part but if Bilic had Gayle and/or Rod last season we would have won that league comfortably.If Moore had Pererira and Diangana ?
If Moore had Pererira and Diangana ?.
If Moore had Pererira and Diangana ?
He had Harvey Barnes as a wide player. Not being funny but he was (even then) better than Diangana.He may be...but history is littered with teams (Denmark, Greece) where the team worked better than any opposition individuals.
He may be...but history is littered with teams (Denmark, Greece) where the team worked better than any opposition individuals.They still would have had Buggerlugs :( >:(
My point being nowt is as simple as ....if we had Messi in the cup vs Woking ..
It's only the odd absolute crazy who thinks like that. The vast majority of the fan base appreciate that Bilic has been a breath of fresh air and is vital to our immediate future, with a lot of the players very close to him.The two are not mutually exclusive.
Darren Moore and Jimmy Shan, two coaches with no first team managerial experience whatsoever, got us placed in 4th position and into the playoffs only the season before.
Let that boggle your mind. Two blokes with no managerial experience placing us 4th on their managerial debuts.
Then we have Slaven Bilić, who has managerial experience at international level and also European level including the Premier League. Who, might I add, we’ve played consistently poor under all of this year.
I could argue that Bilic is the best coach we have had since Hodgson and I could certainly argue he is the coach with the highest profile we have ever hired. The job he was bought into do i.e. get us promoted and finally expunge the dead hand of Pulisball. Despite still having classic Pulisball era players in his squad Bilic has achieved this. As such I am delighted.
Yet I am starting to get a little concerned about Bilic.
In broad terms modern football tactically seems to have boiled down to two broad schools of thought. The high press v the low block. Both schools accommodate various team shapes and players with slightly different skill sets and there are varying degrees of press and depth of block but if you are watching a game it is clear which of the two broad schools most coaches are in.
It is equally clear when a coach is not in either school. Many are in what might be termed the Wenger school which is possession orientated yet quite passive and generally out of possession will funnel back into a 3/4 block. It has struck me that this third school seems to be squeezed from both sides and is only sustainable in situations where the coach has a clear talent advantage over their opponents e.g. like we had in the Championship or Emery enjoyed at PSG in Ligue 1 but didn't with Arsenal with obvious consequences.
There are many high profile coaches who are struggling with this dichotomy and unfortunately I think Bilic is one of them.
This is not me saying he should be replaced. However tactically even with better players I'm not sure how good the outcome can be for us in the Premier League with Bilic at the helm but equally without some work on the squad I am not sure whether an alternative with a clear preference for the high press or deep block would work all that well either.
This is tough I really hoped that Bilic's appointment would set a strategic direction for the club but increasing it looks like it is an interim step to another 180 degree about face.
Joseph Masi Tweet
Slaven Bilic has just held his pre-Fulham press conference. Says he reiterated his position over the sale of Ahmed Hegazi to the board after returning from Brighton. But says now the "chapter is closed, finished."
Lets all just get on with it as best as we can for the good of the club, if that's at all possible
Given the chapter's closed he didn't really need to tell the press he'd reiterated his stance to the board. All reads a bit like 'I'm having the final word on this'. Not picking, it just seems a bit needless to me.In a nutshell. Utterly pointless, should just be carrying over the positives from the last game.
In a nutshell. Utterly pointless, should just be carrying over the positives from the last game.Think he's just anticipating a few inevitable questions from journos and putting the record straight. Good on him.
He's starting to grate on me.
Think he's just anticipating a few inevitable questions from journos and putting the record straight. Good on him.He's just so downbeat though, people like that just grate on me.
In a nutshell. Utterly pointless, should just be carrying over the positives from the last game.Maybe it was an answer to a question.
He's starting to grate on me.
Maybe it was an answer to a question.Almost certainly was, but some people just seem to have a downer on Slaven at the minute, even though he has achieved a lot considering what he inherited. The side is being rebuilt and it is a project that is about 50% complete at the present time. The average age of the side is coming down and youngsters coming through our academy are being given a chance and/or found good quality loans. These were the 2 main changes most of us were looking for prior to his appointment. Hope we extend his contract as he's the best manager we have had since Roy.
It's possible to pass comment on a Q+A without having a downer on him and I'm glad he's our boss.I genuinely wasn't having a go at you. There are a few others though who seem to want him gone, or certainly wouldn't be fussed if he was. Wrong headed in my opinion.
I genuinely wasn't having a go at you. There are a few others though who seem to want him gone, or certainly wouldn't be fussed if he was. Wrong headed in my opinion.
Almost certainly was, but some people just seem to have a downer on Slaven at the minute, even though he has achieved a lot considering what he inherited. The side is being rebuilt and it is a project that is about 50% complete at the present time. The average age of the side is coming down and youngsters coming through our academy are being given a chance and/or found good quality loans. These were the 2 main changes most of us were looking for prior to his appointment. Hope we extend his contract as he's the best manager we have had since Roy.
You clearly have an agenda against the man. That is your prerogative but it doesn't make me agree with you The 'two blokes' you refer to had 2 strikers who were excellent at the level and we still did not go up. The guy has brought youthful talent to the club and, having achieved promotion, deserves at least this full season to establish the club at a higher level.
Competition from other teams (Norwich, Sheffield United, Leeds, Villa, Derby) was stronger in the 2018/2019 season. Sure, we had a better strikers that season. But the kamikaze playing it out from the back and the serious issues we had in midfield had us at a massive disadvantage. Still finished 4th though and nearly made it to the play-off final between the ‘two blokes’.You don’t have to have an agenda to have an opinion.
Other than that run of form we had between September 2019 and December 2019, the rest of Bilić’s Albion performances for me have been very mediocre.
I don’t know if I’d necessarily call it an agenda KN22, but Bilić is not someone I consider long-term. Put it this way, if we get relegated this season, I haven’t got the faith in him to get us promoted again.
You don’t have to have an agenda to have an opinion.
Bilic is not Corberan,he’s also not terrible.
I think your point about post December is a fair one...we literally stumbled in to this league , at one point celebrating victories of other teams over our rivals more frequently than our own.
The Hegazi stuff is spilt milk, and makes him look petulant, the failure you spot and fix the obvious....is painful....but he does appear to have most of the playing staff firmly behind him...he deserves a few more matches 6-8 , but the pressure will not relent without some wins.
Just as a matter of interest zippy, lets assume that the results do not go our way. Are you saying that we sack him? Who is going to pay for that? and more importantly, where is the money going to come from to get the quality manager that is required?
We got into this league by accident to be fair, and we are now punching above our weight with [unbelievably] a few quality players in our squad. I personally do not see anything changing managerial wise this season.
Rather Slaven than Pulis any day..........at least Slav will try.
COYB
Let me spin this back. Let’s say we don’t win in the next 6-8.
Our record spell without a league win is 20 games. We are currently on 10. It simply cannot go on as it has. Let’s hope we get the win we desperately need on Monday because the next two fixtures are Spurs and United.
I don’t know if I’d necessarily call it an agenda KN22, but Bilić is not someone I consider long-term. Put it this way, if we get relegated this season, I haven’t got the faith in him to get us promoted again.
I'd definitely call it an agenda. You insanely wanted him sacked last season and moaned when he got us promoted :D
You only make me more certain than ever that Bilic is great for Albion.
I'd definitely call it an agenda. You insanely wanted him sacked last season and moaned when he got us promoted :D
You only make me more certain than ever that Bilic is great for Albion.
I did start to wonder towards the end of last season if PB would be genuinely
dissapointed should we gain promotion under Slav such was the apparant strength of his conviction. But what's the beef? Slav has his faults but he is a top bloke and as good a manager as we will get, and if he didn't have a few faults, well he wouldn't be here at the Hawthorns. Wants to play the right way, has lowered the age of the squad, found us a couple of gems, and tries to effect the game in play. Yes he can be stubborn and sometimes lacked a plan B last year but he got us promoted regardless of how. Continues the job, started by DM, of removing the bad taste left by TTITC and Pardew.
I did start to wonder towards the end of last season if PB would be genuinelyNot being awkward...but when fans call managers “top blokes†what is this based on ?
dissapointed should we gain promotion under Slav such was the apparant strength of his conviction. But what's the beef? Slav has his faults but he is a top bloke and as good a manager as we will get, and if he didn't have a few faults, well he wouldn't be here at the Hawthorns. Wants to play the right way, has lowered the age of the squad, found us a couple of gems, and tries to effect the game in play. Yes he can be stubborn and sometimes lacked a plan B last year but he got us promoted regardless of how. Continues the job, started by DM, of removing the bad taste left by Pulis and Pardew.
Not being awkward...but when fans call managers “top blokes†what is this based on ?
Maybe he means he’s good at his job? That’s my take anywayBut that really is totally different ?
But that really is totally different ?Top bloke suggests to me someone you'd like to have a beer with, Slaves definitely fits that bill. Our terrible record, of late, would certainly be on the agenda after about 6 pints though.
Just think it’s strange when people praise personality traits and have no time with the person or even anybody that has ..
Some people are star struck, there's no doubt. Few managers would get away with the results over the last few months.
But if you take the last 45 minutes v Brighton there's a lot to be positive about. If that group starts to gel, things can only get better.I don't disagree.
Not being awkward...but when fans call managers “top blokes†what is this based on ?
Intelligent and educated (law degree and multilingual), socially and politically aware (bit of a lefty like myself) charismatic (you've seen him n the telly) well travelled and in a rock band ffs. Passionate about his football. Never met him but from a distance, to me, seems a top bloke.
I know this has nothing to do with his ability as a football manager but It feels good to actually like the manager of our club. Not star struck or in awe as too old for all that rubbish. But simply he got us promoted and has had what? one or two games with a near full strength side so time is deserved. The fact that he seems a good shout for a pint is just an aside.
You can take "top bloke" out of my original post and I stand by it.
Slav has his faults but he is as good a manager as we will get, and if he didn't have a few faults, well he wouldn't be here at the Hawthorns. Wants to play the right way, has lowered the age of the squad, found us a couple of gems, and tries to effect the game in play. Yes he can be stubborn and sometimes lacked a plan B last year but he got us promoted regardless of how. Continues the job, started by DM, of removing the bad taste left by Pulis and Pardew.
Pardew BTW is Not a top bloke on any level. And Pullis, despite what I thought at times when he was here, is just a ****
I did start to wonder towards the end of last season if PB would be genuinely
dissapointed should we gain promotion under Slav such was the apparant strength of his conviction. But what's the beef? Slav has his faults but he is as good a manager as we will get, and if he didn't have a few faults, well he wouldn't be here at the Hawthorns. Wants to play the right way, has lowered the age of the squad, found us a couple of gems, and tries to effect the game in play. Yes he can be stubborn and sometimes lacked a plan B last year but he got us promoted regardless of how. Continues the job, started by DM, of removing the bad taste left by Pulis and Pardew.
Intelligent and educated (law degree and multilingual), socially and politically aware (bit of a lefty like myself) charismatic (you've seen him n the telly) well travelled and in a rock band ffs. Passionate about his football. Never met him but from a distance, to me, seems a top bloke.
I know this has nothing to do with his ability as a football manager but It feels good to actually like the manager of our club. Not star struck or in awe as too old for all that rubbish. But simply he got us promoted and has had what? one or two games with a near full strength side so time is deserved. The fact that he seems a good shout for a pint is just an aside.
You can take "top bloke" out of my original post and I stand by it.
Slav has his faults but he is as good a manager as we will get, and if he didn't have a few faults, well he wouldn't be here at the Hawthorns. Wants to play the right way, has lowered the age of the squad, found us a couple of gems, and tries to effect the game in play. Yes he can be stubborn and sometimes lacked a plan B last year but he got us promoted regardless of how. Continues the job, started by DM, of removing the bad taste left by Pulis and Pardew.
Pardew BTW is Not a top bloke on any level. And Pullis, despite what I thought at times when he was here, is just a ****
What a complete and utter croc of ****!
It’s a numbers game. Simple as that.
What a complete and utter croc of ****!
It’s a numbers game. Simple as that.
Let’s all stop discussing football then and go down the bingo thenThursday evening ?
That is a numbers game !
Intelligent and educated (law degree and multilingual), socially and politically aware (bit of a lefty like myself) charismatic (you've seen him n the telly) well travelled and in a rock band ffs. Passionate about his football. Never met him but from a distance, to me, seems a top bloke.
I know this has nothing to do with his ability as a football manager but It feels good to actually like the manager of our club. Not star struck or in awe as too old for all that rubbish. But simply he got us promoted and has had what? one or two games with a near full strength side so time is deserved. The fact that he seems a good shout for a pint is just an aside.
You can take "top bloke" out of my original post and I stand by it.
Slav has his faults but he is as good a manager as we will get, and if he didn't have a few faults, well he wouldn't be here at the Hawthorns. Wants to play the right way, has lowered the age of the squad, found us a couple of gems, and tries to effect the game in play. Yes he can be stubborn and sometimes lacked a plan B last year but he got us promoted regardless of how. Continues the job, started by DM, of removing the bad taste left by Pulis and Pardew.
Pardew BTW is Not a top bloke on any level. And Pullis, despite what I thought at times when he was here, is just a ****
In fairness to Pulis I’ve heard a lot of people speak well of him and say how nice a guy he is. Even some ex players who’ve not necessarily agreed with him about his views on how the game should be played have said he’s a decent bloke. In the artist doc he came across as a good guy too.
He can be a defensive, dinosaur of a football manager and still be a decent guy.
What a complete and utter croc of ****!
It’s a numbers game. Simple as that.
In fairness to Pulis I’ve heard a lot of people speak well of him and say how nice a guy he is. Even some ex players who’ve not necessarily agreed with him about his views on how the game should be played have said he’s a decent bloke. In the artist doc he came across as a good guy too.
He can be a defensive, dinosaur of a football manager and still be a decent guy.
For me its so much richer and more nuanced than that, which is why it gets under the skin and creates boreds like this. Why bother watching the games if its only the numbers? We might as well just check into the table on a Monday night. This time last year Southampton were really struggling at the wrong end of the table and took an absolute strumping off Leicester. They went top four today.
I think you’ve misunderstood my post Oldbury24.
I was dismissing your love letter to Slaven Bilić and attempting to remind you that football is a results driven game. Romanticise all you want, that’s the bottom line. If we’ve already seen the best of Slaven and our performances and results do not improve, the board will replace him.
Bilić is already in the second year of his two year contract. To date, the board haven’t extended it. That says a lot to me.
In fairness to Pulis I’ve heard a lot of people speak well of him and say how nice a guy he is. Even some ex players who’ve not necessarily agreed with him about his views on how the game should be played have said he’s a decent bloke. In the artist doc he came across as a good guy too.
He can be a defensive, dinosaur of a football manager and still be a decent guy.
In fairness to Pulis I’ve heard a lot of people speak well of him and say how nice a guy he is. Even some ex players who’ve not necessarily agreed with him about his views on how the game should be played have said he’s a decent bloke. In the artist doc he came across as a good guy too.
He can be a defensive, dinosaur of a football manager and still be a decent guy.
Tbh I am struggling to understand your posts against the context of mine. Not sure how my personal opinion of someone can be viewed as a croc of **** for a start. I've reread the posts a few times to see what I'm missing and I think we are just talking in different footballing languages here. Happens.Play some decent football and showcase some of our fantastic talent (Pereira, Diangana, Gallagher, Robinson, Sawyers (maybe wishful thinking but I still have faith) and hopefully Grant). Do that and league position will not really matter to me.
In simples terms: I like Slav as a manager, think he has done a decent job, and don't think there are many out there within reach who would be better. I hope he succeeds, whatever success actually looks like this year. It is evident you don't feel the same. FWIW my gut feeling is that he won't be here next year regardless of results, but much can change.
For me any pressure lies squarely with the club for not bringing players in sooner.
Anything but a win tonight and the pressure will be back on him
Been hinting at it for a while but it’s clear he doesn’t want to be here.
We’ve been rubbish since the start of the year pretty much.
Only issue is not sure who we’d get in to replace him, who’d want to sign for this club atm?
Remember we don't talk about new managers on here , it wont be long .
Is there a seperate area for that or not allowed anywhere on the site? just trying to stay on right path.
Not until he's sacked or resigns.
We didn't have a good squad but his poor team selection doesn't help.
Sawyers and Philips should not be picked.
Bilic has to go now.
No win in 11.Tonight feels like a turning point for the middle ground.
ANYONE else, we'd be baying for blood.
I cannot take anymore of these stupid decisions and selections.
We will go down irrespective as to who is head coachYes I think we will go down too but before that the team have to try their best to fight!
If we finish 20th this season then that is par with what we should be doing with this squad compared to our competitors. We look at Fulham away as one of our winnable games but even Fulham have completely blown us away in the transfer market. Their left back tonight, Bilic wanted him, didn't get him. We have Townsend from Luton and Furlong from QPR :) Even finishing 18th or 19th would be to over-perform. That's the tough reality.
We will go down irrespective as to who is head coach
If we finish 20th this season then that is par with what we should be doing with this squad compared to our competitors. We look at Fulham away as one of our winnable games but even Fulham have completely blown us away in the transfer market. Their left back tonight, Bilic wanted him, didn't get him. We have Townsend from Luton and Furlong from QPR :) Even finishing 18th or 19th would be to over-perform. That's the tough reality.
He's very weak mentally and can't handle pressure. He looks depressed and broken and its spread to the players. Give him what he wants and sack him now. He has no fight, his answer seems to be to do things that he knows won't work, its almost like self punishment.never thought I'd see another coach as bad as clueless, but Bilic is getting there.
Hope for both sides sake he's gone by morning.
There’s a difference between going down with the worst points total and going down with a bit of fight
We will go down irrespective as to who is head coach
Yes I think we will go down too but before that the team have to try their best to fight!
From what I've seen today, most of the players have lost their fighting spirit and it's unacceptable.
I love this mind boggling idea that if we sack Bilic and bring in god knows who that our team is going to rejuvenate itself at this level. We are the weakest side in the league, no doubt about it and changing Bilic will not change that.I could agree with some of this if a whole load of basics weren't missing . Shape , fight , hunger , motivation, balanced side . Not all of that is down to transfers , its basics ...and I'm afraid it comes back to Slav.
I love this mind boggling idea that if we sack Bilic and bring in god knows who that our team is going to rejuvenate itself at this level. We are the weakest side in the league, no doubt about it and changing Bilic will not change that.
I thought today was similar to Southampton, we were just outclassed. If I was Bilic I'd be playing Pereira in the number ten role and have Grosicki on the bench in place of Philips. I'd also retire Livermore but the reality is that whoever is in charge never quite picks my starting eleven each week. If you look at our team, Periera, Diangana, Krov, Grant, Ivanovich, the spine - they are Bilic's players, the last thing any of them want is the manager to be sacked.
It is also important to remember that if the board was trigger happy that we are a complete poisoned chalice. Any unemployed manager would only be signing on to add a relegation to their CV and to get hammered every other week - not much of an incentive for any realist.
But to go down without a fight is unacceptable.
I love this mind boggling idea that if we sack Bilic and bring in god knows who that our team is going to rejuvenate itself at this level. We are the weakest side in the league, no doubt about it and changing Bilic will not change that.
Ask yourself, do you trust the club to bring in someone better?
I know I don’t
So, correct me if I'm wrong but since the lockdown we have won just 4 games and thats including Harrogate. 4 Wins out of 18 games. Pretty dreadful really. It doesn't look good.
While I'd agree there are holes in the squad I refuse to believe this squad/team is as bad as we are seeing.
All the charm in the world but this is nowhere near good enough.
Completely agree. It's like when Bilic moaned about Hegazi going. He played him 16 times last year in the championship, many of these from the bench without Ivanovic. He didn't really use him much. Our squad isn't as bad as it currently looks.
Even the staunchest of Bilic supporters cannot tell me that husk of a man on the touchline tonight is the best we can do? He looks nervous, scared and lost. He doesn't have the mental strength to deal with our situation and its written all over his face.
I like him I really do, but its like watching animal hospital at the minute with his anxious sad little puppy eyes. I want to wrap him in a blanket and take him to a safe place.
Even the staunchest of Bilic supporters cannot tell me that husk of a man on the touchline tonight is the best we can do? He looks nervous, scared and lost. He doesn't have the mental strength to deal with our situation and its written all over his face.
I like him I really do, but its like watching animal hospital at the minute with his anxious sad little puppy eyes. I want to wrap him in a blanket and take him to a safe place.
I've always hated carrying over results from different seasons. They are too very different propositions and challenges. We scraped across the line last season with a number of draws after building up a massive lead, that was massive for the club. I'd judged the championship season on all 46 games, and the outcome. That season is done and gone, and it's a promotion, fantastic, nothing else to say about it.
Equally we should be looking at the premiership over the 38 games this season. So far played 7, and we've drawn 3, lost 4. Chelsea at home was a massive. This season our weakest opponents were our strongest ones from last season. If your expecting is to survive you're expecting a miracle in my view. The writing was on the wall as soon as we decided not to spend big like all of our competitors.
What were you expecting from his body language, hand-stands and high fives? I love it the minute that the reality kicks in of our limitations and the results turn some our of fans start a psychoanalysis of the manager's facial expressions like they are Dr Sigmund Freud.No I didn't expect handstands and high fives.
No I didn't expect handstands and high fives.
I expected passion, fight and logic. I got fear and self pity.
What did you see?
Bilic doesn't appear to be in the right frame of mind and is lacking motivation which surely is being sensed by the players and having an effect on how they play on the field.
Are you referring to the manger or the players on the pitch? Bilic can't kick the ball and run around for them. The bloke is just about the most demonstrative and emotive manager that is about. Whether he looked resigned to defeat this evening or was jumping around like a lunatic would not have changed the result. Bilic is a very intelligent man, a qualified lawyer, speak multiple languages. He knows this squad is not up to it. He told the board, they rejected his advice and gave him a conservative budget. Fulham keep possession very well, they are not sort of team that turns over the ball, so once they went 2-0 nil up we we're stuffed.
Even the staunchest of Bilic supporters cannot tell me that husk of a man on the touchline tonight is the best we can do? He looks nervous, scared and lost. He doesn't have the mental strength to deal with our situation and its written all over his face.
I like him I really do, but its like watching animal hospital at the minute with his anxious sad little puppy eyes. I want to wrap him in a blanket and take him to a safe place.
Are you referring to the manger or the players on the pitch? Bilic can't kick the ball and run around for them. The bloke is just about the most demonstrative and emotive manager that is about. Whether he looked resigned to defeat this evening or was jumping around like a lunatic would not have changed the result. Bilic is a very intelligent man, a qualified lawyer, speak multiple languages. He knows this squad is not up to it. He told the board, they rejected his advice and gave him a conservative budget. Fulham keep possession very well, they are not sort of team that turns over the ball, so once they went 2-0 nil up we we're stuffed.This is absolute tosh!
Tonight has rocked me I must admit.
Hold on a minute the guy had a one man crusade for Krovinovic and the club obliged , He also said he wanted to give last seasons team a go this year on the back of a shocking performance at Huddersfield and a rubbish performance against QPR . He knew the budget he had 2 choices quit or use that money wisely . The bottom line is he is a nice guy no one will despute that but I have serious reservations about his overall coaching ability and now his man management seems to be shot too.
Quit or use that money wisely ... why would he sacrifice his salary and just who would you not sign, pereira ... which the money was supposed to come from last year but somehow got included with this years budget, diangana we all thought that was a steal, the striker he wanted took 6 games in. He wanted a keeper the board got a cheap option, he wanted a centre half again another board cheap option, fullbacks nothing and to cap it off sold a player behind his back. Only Burnley has spent less and look where they are with a current crop of established premiership players
Unless he walks I think Bilic will get the next two games , depending more on performances than results things will pan out then.
Lets be honest Dowling will be putting feelers out , can't continue with these lifeless efforts .
Unless he walks I think Bilic will get the next two games , depending more on performances than results things will pan out then.
Lets be honest Dowling will be putting feelers out , can't continue with these lifeless efforts .
I should imagine the feelers have already been put out Dex.Sheffield Utd didn't feel like that last year, and Leeds don't this year. The man's talking gibberish.
If Bilić is saying in post-match interviews tonight that the team lose confidence before a ball is kicked when they see better opposition, heaven knows what Spurs and Man U will do to us 🙁
Heard he's gone
Sheffield Utd didn't feel like that last year, and Leeds don't this year. The man's talking gibberish.
Heard he's gone
There was a tweet that I fell for, for a split second. Said Allan Nyom was taking temp charge lol. Had a genuine link to the official site but the story was us sacking big Dave. Was well constructed and may have fooled others!
Link please mate?
LOL, Bambi taking charge! 😂Thats the only thing made me chuckle Tonight
There was a tweet that I fell for, for a split second. Said Allan Nyom was taking temp charge lol. Had a genuine link to the official site but the story was us sacking big Dave. Was well constructed and may have fooled others!
Christ what we wouldn't give for Allan Nyom now. Furlong is woeful.Imagine a world where Livermore and Johnstone are not the first names on the team sheet........
Back to Bilic, can't see him taking charge of the Sheffield United game. Just want the next man to consign Livermore to history and go from there.
Imagine a world where Livermore and Johnstone are not the first names on the team sheet........
He knew the bloody budget , he also knew one of Hegazi or Bartley was going if right offer came in . it’s his job to coach and get the best out of what he has got.
Imagine a world where Livermore and Johnstone are not the first names on the team sheet........
Trouble with sacking him is that we have been here before. We have all as fans have seen that we are playing the wrong players or system and call for the manager to go and when they do guess what the new managers they all make the same mistakes or equally bad ones then we are upset again.
I just dont see anyone coming in and magically turning us into a team that will stay up. Maybe we stick with someone for more than a season for once and give them sufficent funding or am I just an old romantic?
Trouble with sacking him is that we have been here before. We have all as fans have seen that we are playing the wrong players or system and call for the manager to go and when they do guess what the new managers they all make the same mistakes or equally bad ones then we are upset again.
I just dont see anyone coming in and magically turning us into a team that will stay up. Maybe we stick with someone for more than a season for once and give them sufficent funding or am I just an old romantic?
WBA operational cycle.
Club appoint new seemingly decent/promising manager,
Literally everyone can see WBA squad clearly not good enough,
Fans desperate for signing of decent striker/winger/midfielder/defender/goalkeeper in run up to & throughout transfer window,
Seemingly decent/promising manager calls for quality signings in transfer window,
Club confirms budget is “competitive†(meaning small)
Club linked to various players, some quality, some has beens, some never heard of,
Transfer dealings seemingly left until late in the window & regularly outbid for players by Crystal Palace/Burnley/West Ham,
Owner not willing or interested in investing in players good enough to allow us to compete with bottom half of this league as the club must be “run self sufficientlyâ€,
Desperate fans left disappointed at quantity/quality of signings,
Seemingly decent/promising manager left disappointed at quantity/quality of signings,
Results get worse over time,
Performances get worse over time,
Seemingly decent/promising manager now failing & looking totally deflated,
Club sells player(s) from under seemingly decent/promising manager to balance the books,
Fans call for more spending in the next transfer window/sack the board/new owner who will invest/new manager,
Board eventually sack seemingly decent/promising manager citing “disappointment at results†but have no replacement lined up & state “the search for a new manager starts nowâ€,
Caretaker manager appointed while club takes many weeks to appoint a new permanent seemingly decent/promising manager,
Results & performances continue to steadily decline with relegation looming larger every game,
Fans left lamenting “if only we had a decent manager/decent squad/decent board/decent owner willing to invest, we could have stayed upâ€
Club appoint new seemingly decent/promising manager,
Rinse and repeat operational cycle......
WBA operational cycle.
Club appoint new seemingly decent/promising manager,
Literally everyone can see WBA squad clearly not good enough,
Fans desperate for signing of decent striker/winger/midfielder/defender/goalkeeper in run up to & throughout transfer window,
Seemingly decent/promising manager calls for quality signings in transfer window,
Club confirms budget is “competitive†(meaning small)
Club linked to various players, some quality, some has beens, some never heard of,
Transfer dealings seemingly left until late in the window & regularly outbid for players by Crystal Palace/Burnley/West Ham,
Owner not willing or interested in investing in players good enough to allow us to compete with bottom half of this league as the club must be “run self sufficientlyâ€,
Desperate fans left disappointed at quantity/quality of signings,
Seemingly decent/promising manager left disappointed at quantity/quality of signings,
Results get worse over time,
Performances get worse over time,
Seemingly decent/promising manager now failing & looking totally deflated,
Club sells player(s) from under seemingly decent/promising manager to balance the books,
Fans call for more spending in the next transfer window/sack the board/new owner who will invest/new manager,
Board eventually sack seemingly decent/promising manager citing “disappointment at results†but have no replacement lined up & state “the search for a new manager starts nowâ€,
Caretaker manager appointed while club takes many weeks to appoint a new permanent seemingly decent/promising manager,
Results & performances continue to steadily decline with relegation looming larger every game,
Fans left lamenting “if only we had a decent manager/decent squad/decent board/decent owner willing to invest, we could have stayed upâ€
Club appoint new seemingly decent/promising manager,
Rinse and repeat operational cycle......
Trouble with sacking him is that we have been here before. We have all as fans have seen that we are playing the wrong players or system and call for the manager to go and when they do guess what the new managers they all make the same mistakes or equally bad ones then we are upset again.
I just dont see anyone coming in and magically turning us into a team that will stay up. Maybe we stick with someone for more than a season for once and give them sufficent funding or am I just an old romantic?
You’re just an old romantic Baggie79.
Would you agree Mowbray was the last manager the club backed?
The problem with NOT sacking Bilic is that Bilic himself clearly doesnt want to be here. Why would he shoot himself in the foot week after week with his daft decisions.
Trouble with sacking him is that we have been here before. We have all as fans have seen that we are playing the wrong players or system and call for the manager to go and when they do guess what the new managers they all make the same mistakes or equally bad ones then we are upset again.Frankly he's sacking himself , theres no getting away from his record since Xmas .
I just dont see anyone coming in and magically turning us into a team that will stay up. Maybe we stick with someone for more than a season for once and give them sufficent funding or am I just an old romantic?
You’re just an old romantic Baggie79.
Would you agree Mowbray was the last manager the club backed?
As Mowbray admitted himself he was not backed as he saw fit and this was part of his justification for moving on.
The real question is that is Bilic correct over his decisions and the fans wrong or is he wrong and the fans are right?
I havent asked anyone if he is going as I fear I will get an answer I dont like.
He's got more goodwill as an Albion manager than I've ever seen but how many more of these limp performances can we take ? .
He's had one season and achieved one promotion, against the odds. More goodwill than any manager in our history? Do you not think on reflection that your comment is getting crazily carried away.
Frankly he's sacking himself , theres no getting away from his record since Xmas .
He's got more goodwill as an Albion manager than I've ever seen but how many more of these limp performances can we take ? . At the very least we need effort , heart and guts .
We haven't had that from a Bilic side in months.
I don't know why its gone so wrong but I do know it can't go on.
Those that think if he stayed after relegation and we'd be challenging need to have a look at our post Xmas results and performances with a very good squad for the league we were in.
TBF he does have a lot of goodwill amongst the albion fanbase but not as much as Darren Moore had. No way. That was insane and self-harming.
He has way more than Moore. Way more.
NO way, DM was out of depth from the first game and 95% of people wouldn't accept it many games later to the detriment of the club.
It was 50/50 whether Moore should get the job. Ask Fritzl.
The fan base has been far more patient with Bilić.
I’d suggest they backed Pulis, unfortunately he was clueless when it came to scouting players.
He's had one season and achieved one promotion, against the odds. More goodwill than any manager in our history? Do you not think on reflection that your comment is getting crazily carried away.No , I look at his record and performances since Xmas.
I dont mean the appointment, the fact that we as a fanbase tolerated his awful management when it clear it was not workiing was worrying and based on sentiment alone.
Bilic is a better manager, i was middle of the road when it came to him but now i'm done with him after that bottlejob selection.
This is an excellent post.It's not though is it?
Moore NEVER went on a run as bad as this. Not sure if you're misunderstanding what I mean by goodwill.
A serious portion of fans wanted Moore (or at least Jones) out before Christmas based purely on conceding sloppy goals by passing out from the back.
No , I look at his record and performances since Xmas. Considering his record I believe as Jacko posted earlier near enough any other manager would be getting serious stick by now.
It's not though is it?
It all sounds very profound and poetic but its not factually accurate.
He had more money than most of his contemporaries last season.
He was backed in January, whilst no-one of note was sold, certainly not without his say so.
Despite this our form continued to drop against poorer opposition, in terms of both finance and quality. The board stuck by him.
Onto this season and the budget was made clear.
He campaigned for and got Robinson, Diangana, Grant and Krov (despite him never being a regular in the league below)
He has openly criticised the club and its owners, latest being about another player who he rarely picked in the league below
ITK posters tonight reveal that he actively predicted relegation
This all leads me to a man who does not believe in the task at hand and has no faith in his squad. How can he possibly get the best out of them and encourage them exceed expectations?
Yes our chances are limited but so many of his problems are self induced.
He's a nice bloke and I'd love a beer with him, but he's backed himself into a corner and there's no way out.
Yeah, I hate the notion of mixing seasons together to judge the manager. I'm more patient, and take each season as a whole. I also don't like making snap decisions on sacking managers after 7/38 games. Last season top four was par, top six was minimum and top two was out performing what was reasonable - that was my benchmark, so hats of to Bilic for getting us promoted at the first attempt in the top two. This season I've long maintained that 20th is par and even 18th or 19th would be out performing what could be reasonably expected. My view on that doesn't change if we sack the manager.
I remember similar arguments with mixing results across different seasons being trotted out to justify the sacking of Steve Clark that I never agreed with after he had guided us to 8th which was a phenomenal achievement.
He is running out of grace. He has done a good job on the overhaul but the 7 wins in 30 or whatever it is isnt good enough.
I dont like that we keep sacking managers we have to stick with one eventually. Knowing our board like I do we havent even thought about a replacement or contingency yet...
Bye bye
Sad to see it play out like this because I, like so many Albion and football fans alike, appreciate the fact Bilić is a very likeable football man.Agree ...many would like it to work...but
By all accounts though, Alan Irvine was a well-respected academy coach and also very well thought of by the players and staff at WBA during his tenure.
But that alone cannot sustain a managers position.
Our club and its future is paramount. If we carry on down this road I fear it will inflict long-term damage. I, for one do not want to beat Derby’s disgraceful record. The teams gradual decline over almost 12 months is not going to change with Slaven in charge. He knows it and the board know it too. I wish we’d parted company amicably in the summer because he was already spent at that point.
We are on a very slippery slope. We can’t let the slide continue. Sentiment means nothing in this multi million pound industry. Give Bilic two more games to get his act together or bring in a new captain to put the sinking ship back on course.
We are on a very slippery slope. We can’t let the slide continue. Sentiment means nothing in this multi million pound industry. Give Bilic two more games to get his act together or bring in a new captain to put the sinking ship back on course.Spurs and Manchester City?
If Bilic should depart I hope you are happy with his replacement as it won’t be long before most are calling for his head. The squad simply isn’t good enough.
Really? Because you posted several times that in 54 matches we only scored more than 1 goal 9 times in the lead up to Pulis leaving ;)
As many fans have noticed it is very lightweight with plenty of skilful players but not enough players prepared to roll up their sleeves and fight for the badge.
As many fans have noticed it is very lightweight with plenty of skilful players but not enough players prepared to roll up their sleeves and fight for the badge.
Agree ...many would like it to work...but
Maybe if he spent time actually coaching instead of moaning, maybe picking the team so obvious that most can see it
Maybe stop looking for excuses and get on with the job
Can honestly not see this carrying on past Sheffield barring a miracle.
I’ll wager that the new manager will
Drop Johnstone
Play kipre
Play Gibbs
Drop Livermore and sawyers
Centralise Pererira
Get grant and Robinson starting
Not having us fans at the Hawthorn’s being fed-up will possibly drag this out Zippy.No pal....
No pal....
Using this forum alone as a straw poll......it’s gone almost fully towards lack of confidence tonight .
Much of Pulis I loathed, I considered him a long term cancer on the club but I still would have judged his performance on each season and we did have a couple of stable if not boring mid-table finishes. 2017/18 I wanted him out and was vehemently opposed to his new contract. That was the summer when his long term assistant Dave Kemp retired only to return back alongside him as soon as he got his next job. Pulis had a massive legal bill to pay and his sacking just after signing a new deal was fantastic news, economically for him, couple that we him changing the team radically from the British players he always relied on to a random collection, after we had managed to win the first three league games and I'm convinced that TP put his own interests ahead of the clubs that season and played our naive new board like a fiddle. The strangest point was after losing at Huddersfield when he wouldn't resign but was demanding the "board make a decision", it stank to high heaven.
As least Slav doesn't have several court cases against him!
;D Come on lads we only need 10 more wins.....got a feeling Hegazi going drained all "motivation"How mate ? Played 14 times under Bilic only.
You are in effect asking a new captain to pilot a ship that has been hit by a torpedo. It will sink either way.So you'd carry on with a captain who jumped up and down until he got Krov ( lightweight at best ) , pushed for a 37 year old CB , has no clear plan on if we are set up to defend or press and for quite a while now puts out performances like last night ? .
We are on a very slippery slope. We can’t let the slide continue. Sentiment means nothing in this multi million pound industry. Give Bilic two more games to get his act together or bring in a new captain to put the sinking ship back on course.The next 2 games are Spurs and Man United ,this squad could play out of their skins and potentially lose both by 3or 4 goals such is the gulf inabilities then what? If it’s going to be done do it pre international break if a replacement is lined up .
I have long argued we need to stop firing coaches as soon as we hit the first bump in the road so we can actually develop a style of play and recruit and develop to it across multiple seasons. To do this we have to be prepared to write off a season i.e. suffer a relegation or forgo a promotion that we might have avoided or achieved with a short term coaching fix.
It is not an easy argument to make when the team is losing week in week out and to be able to make it at all there has to be a clear sense of purpose and a tactical template to buy into.
Bilic is a great man manager and motivator but he is not a particularly good technical coach, by modern standards. His teams are flawed tactically this is masked by the fact that he has a talent advantage (e.g. us in the Championship) or can fire up a group of decent players across the short term (e.g. West Ham).
I can't make an argument for Bilic based on the post lockdown evidence and displays like yesterday are just so structurally poor there is very little point to even trying.
Also, if we stick with him we could end up parting ways at the end of this season anyway.
I do agree with Standaman though. We need to stick with somebody and the club needs to develop a blueprint and identity and that isn’t going to happen while we keep chopping and changing, especially when it’s total different styles of manager and play.
Clarke - Mel - Irvine - Pulis - Pardew - Moore - Bilic .
Having slept on last night when I was mightily **** off, i'm just normal **** off now, I still think we need continuity, the squad is the squad now, Slav needs to fix the obvious tactical flaws and get the players motivated for a fight. We need to back them all players and staff, chopping and changing achieves nothing !
The issues you’re talking about have been there for nearly 12 months now. Bilić isn’t going to change or turn this situation around.
I have long argued we need to stop firing coaches as soon as we hit the first bump in the road so we can actually develop a style of play and recruit and develop to it across multiple seasons.
I have long argued we need to stop firing coaches as soon as we hit the first bump in the road so we can actually develop a style of play and recruit and develop to it across multiple seasons. To do this we have to be prepared to write off a season i.e. suffer a relegation or forgo a promotion that we might have avoided or achieved with a short term coaching fix.
It is not an easy argument to make when the team is losing week in week out and to be able to make it at all there has to be a clear sense of purpose and a tactical template to buy into.
Bilic is a great man manager and motivator but he is not a particularly good technical coach, by modern standards. His teams are flawed tactically this is masked by the fact that he has a talent advantage (e.g. us in the Championship) or can fire up a group of decent players across the short term (e.g. West Ham).
I can't make an argument for Bilic based on the post lockdown evidence and displays like yesterday are just so structurally poor there is very little point to even trying.
Yesterday the team were desperate for changes at half time obviously but he didn't do that.
Later he brought on Sawyers and Philips, both were poor recently, rather than Edwards who did well against Brighton.
It makes me feel that he has given up.
I for one have kept my mouth shut about Bilic this year but it's hard not to start taking a serious look at what the hell is happening after last nights (non) performance. We haven't really been in a good place since that home loss to Middlesbrough over last years Xmas period.I think he's the one who's mentally weak to be honest. We have players who love to play with a smile on their face and a bit of swagger but that has gone now and it all coincides with Bilic becoming moody and downbeat.
I love the guy, but perhaps thats the problem. My worry is he's just not tough enough with the players.
We are mentally weak. When was the last time we actually won a big match?
Didn't he get into a downward spiral at West Ham and couldn't stop it?I was working with a West Ham fan at the time, and he said there were just no new ideas, no ability to mix things up, change ideas. We have been worked out as a team who will basically give up the midfield for space out wide, which is clearly Bilic's thing. I think he's a great bloke in many ways, but we need to to shore up and fight through the middle more - and we have a player in Perreira who can make things happen there, and draw players to him to make space for others, but he's being played out wide. He barely touched the ball apart from set pieces last night.
I think he could have hit the buffers again.
The slump we find ourselves in is not a new phenomenon, it been going on since the turn of the year.
I like Slav as a man but lets face it, he's toast.
How many of our fans are having a hard time accepting that his squad is getting relegated no matter who the manager is. If you put a journeyman boxer into the ring against Anthony Joshua you are getting knocked out. You can sack the trainer and try different tactics but you are still getting knocked out again in the next fight.
I think most of us would accept relegation if we rolled our sleeves up, made ourselves hard to beat and gave a good account of ourselves.
What we are seeing a limp roll over from many players who Bilic has stated are not good enough with his repeated calls for strengthening.
We should not accept a relegation where we get our stomachs tickled every week purely because the board “didn’t do enoughâ€.
How many of our fans are having a hard time accepting that his squad is getting relegated no matter who the manager is. If you put a journeyman boxer into the ring against Anthony Joshua you are getting knocked out. You can sack the trainer and try different tactics but you are still getting knocked out again in the next fight.It's not just about results though is it?
I am the kind of supporter who like's to give the manager a really good chance in a new league, is 7 league games enough for supporters to call for him to be sacked? I dont think it is.
So a question to you all, do we take a chance on the results changing or get rid of Slaven now and see if a new manager can change things round.
Lets be honest here. What manager worth their salt is going to come and work for the clowns that are running the club at present? If Slav does go then expect another Pulis / Allardyce type appointment or worse still someone like Appleton.
I am the kind of supporter who like's to give the manager a really good chance in a new league, is 7 league games enough for supporters to call for him to be sacked? I dont think it is.
So a question to you all, do we take a chance on the results changing or get rid of Slaven now and see if a new manager can change things round.
Pulis and Allardyce aren't alike.
He seems to base his selection on performance in training but not all good players really commit to training.
One of Villa's most respected players in recent years was Paul McGrath.Because of his medical problems he basically did not train at all and it was left to the medical staff to get on the pitch for the next match.
How many of our fans are having a hard time accepting that his squad is getting relegated no matter who the manager is. If you put a journeyman boxer into the ring against Anthony Joshua you are getting knocked out. You can sack the trainer and try different tactics but you are still getting knocked out again in the next fight.Andy Ruiz JR . Next.
Yes but there's a huge difference between unable to train for medical reasons and not pulling your weight.
I would have Perreira down in the no 10 position first on the team sheet, tell him to forget defending, and then build whatever we can around him with the players we have. I think that is about our only chance of staying up - Bilic need to stop this obsession with width at the expense of everything else.
I completely agree about Pereira as a no 10.I thought it was linked to comments back in the thread about Perreira maybe being subbed for not pulling his weight, that's all.
I'm not sure what your response has to do with my comment about players not training hard when they are medically capable of doing so.
From today's Athletic, kind of sums up what I have been saying:
https://theathletic.co.uk/2176399/2020/11/03/west-brom-slaven-bilic-job/
Passionate Bilic has entered football’s fiercest gunfight with a water pistol
In fairness to Slaven Bilic, managing West Bromwich Albion in the Premier League in 2020 is devilishly hard.
The likeable and passionate Croatian has entered domestic football’s fiercest gunfight armed only with a water pistol and so far he and his team have come up short. After last night’s limp 2-0 defeat to Fulham, Albion are 18th in the table and have yet to register a league victory this season after seven attempts.
Despite that disappointing start, Bilic deserves gratitude from the club and their supporters for all he has achieved in his 17 months at The Hawthorns. He took a club that was on a downer after defeat in the Championship play-offs weeks earlier and reinvigorated it with his infectious brand of inclusive management, re-engaging a disenchanted fanbase in the process.
He led a newly-assembled squad to promotion at the first time of asking and played a key part in the recruitment of a successful side by identifying Matheus Pereira and Grady Diangana as the men to add stardust to an already promising group.
His desire to keep West Brom’s promotion winners together was understandable given the success they achieved in 2019-20, but the portion of the club’s summer transfer budget swallowed up by the endeavour of doing so left precious little to then add to it.
To date, this season has brought some tough days, some of which have put Bilic himself in the spotlight. The decision to switch to a three-man central defence at the start of the season — understandable though it was — backfired and set the defensive tone for a difficult start to the campaign.
Adding a defensive midfielder and improved full-backs could perhaps have taken priority over re-signing all of last season’s loanees. The deals for Pereira and Diangana, both of whom every Albion fan would have wanted back, meant the club struggled to bolster the rest of the squad.
The switch to 4-2-3-1 at Southampton a month ago, at a time when a solid midfield trio was required, was another self-inflicted wound, yet the club’s problems this season have been less about tactics and more about personnel. If results fail to improve, Bilic will pay the price with his job.
He would not depart free from his share of responsibility after a tough start but, in truth, any manager in his place would have found it challenging to extract a great deal more from a squad with such limitations.
In fairness to Luke Dowling, £20 million in the modern-day Premier League is chicken feed. Yet that was the budget Albion’s sporting and technical director was handed to try to give Bilic a fighting chance this season.
By negotiating a swap deal to bring back Callum Robinson and another season-long loan for Filip Krovinovic, Dowling managed to fulfil Bilic’s primary objective — putting the band back together — for the cost of signing Pereira and Diangana in deals that few right-minded fans would have turned down.
The initial bill for the pair, a little under £20 million, left Dowling with next to nothing remaining in his transfer kitty to further arm Bilic for Albion’s Premier League return. The £500,000 fee for Brighton & Hove Albion’s David Button was solid business in a window when signing a genuine rival to No 1 goalkeeper Sam Johnstone was financially out of the question. And, at £800,000 from Wigan Athletic, Cedric Kipre was not intended as an instant first-team hit but instead as a low-cost investment that was too tempting to turn down.
Dowling’s persistence and bargaining also enabled Albion, after a 13-month pursuit, to finally land Karlan Grant from Huddersfield Town — Bilic’s No 1 attacking target. Relations with the head coach have hit a rough patch from which a long-term recovery seems unlikely and for which both men must shoulder responsibility.
But even when future add-ons are included, West Brom’s summer spending commitments amount to only a modest £46 million.
It is hard to see how Dowling could have stretched his resources much further. In fairness to Guochuan Lai, his intentions seemed honourable. When the Chinese businessman bought Albion from Jeremy Peace four years ago, he seemed genuinely excited and well-intentioned. He is not the only club owner from his country to fall foul of its government’s fading interest in investing in Western sport, which waned as quickly as it soared shortly after Lai had paid Peace around £200 million for his controlling stake.
Lai could help himself enormously by communicating with Albion’s frustrated supporters and enlightening them on his intentions for West Brom now his initial business plan — branded eco-towns — has apparently bitten the dust. Addressing the unpaid loan, which continues to accrue increasing interest, to the club he inherited from Pearce would also be a start.
His man on the ground, Xu Ke, could help everyone around him by engaging with media and the fans.
They could have avoided inflaming tensions between the club and Bilic by telling the Croatian they intended to sell defender Ahmed Hegazi instead of canvassing his opinion, only to over-rule it a few days later.
Yet the sale of Hegazi made business sense and better communication would not change the basic facts — that Lai is stuck with a club he can neither offload nor invest in. And the club are stuck with him.
In fairness to West Brom’s players, they over-achieved last season with automatic promotion and have perhaps found themselves in the Premier League too early. Last season was meant to mark the start of a two-year project of squad regeneration but Albion hit on a winning formula that has brought them back to the top flight ahead of schedule.
Many of their squad had barely established themselves as Championship players before being asked to take the next step and so far, for some, it has looked like a step too far. They earned promotion without having a regular goalscorer and with a relative lack of experience. They have, at times in the early weeks of this season, looked potent in possession, but have too often shown a predictable naivety.
In fairness to Albion fans, they are simply speaking from the heart.
The criticisms of Bilic and his players that flooded social media after last night’s defeat in a key game away to fellow newly-promoted strugglers Fulham were entirely justifiable. Their team’s statistics, especially without the ball, do not make for pretty reading. Albion’s PPDA (passes per defensive action) figure of 18.45 is the third-worst in the division. The figure, which is the average number of passes they allow their opponents before attempting to win the ball back through a tackle, interception, or similar sort of act, was considerably improved in Monday’s game to 6.95 but still Bilic admitted afterwards that the work rate had not been good enough.
Supporters understand the limitations placed on Dowling and Bilic in the summer, yet are frustrated Premier League rivals found the cash to invest in their squads while the Lai regime did not. With the next two games at home to Tottenham Hotspur and away at Manchester United, the fans cannot see where a first win of the season is coming from and are frustrated by what seems likely to be a Premier League opportunity going to waste.
In fairness to everyone, the season is just seven games old and there is ample time for things to improve.
Yet on current form, it seems unlikely that West Brom will find the quality required to avoid a grim season or that Bilic will manage to turn things around quickly enough to save his job. It is a frustrating situation that cannot be laid at the door of any individual but is, instead, the result of a perfect storm in which Bilic, Dowling and Lai find themselves coming under intense scrutiny.
Presume that's Madeley, who's first tweet yesterday evening was to excuse the team selection.Fully agree , poor piece from Madeley that is .
No mention of the terrible form since Christmas or the one chink of light, the last 30 minutes at the Amex.
Stinks to high heaven of keeping what limited access he has, and who can blame him.
Presume that's Madeley, who's first tweet yesterday evening was to excuse the team selection.
No mention of the terrible form since Christmas or the one chink of light, the last 30 minutes at the Amex.
Stinks to high heaven of keeping what limited access he has, and who can blame him.
The issues you’re talking about have been there for nearly 12 months now. Bilić isn’t going to change or turn this situation around.And if we were making quite obvious mistakes in the champ....it’s only going to be exaggerated in the prem.
And if we were making quite obvious mistakes in the champ....it’s only going to be exaggerated in the prem.
It’ll be painful to watch, no doubt Zippy. And in the end, no good will come of persisting with someone who can’t deliver the sort of results we need this season.
Percy confirms Bilić is under serious scrutiny regards staying in post.
What does he know that others don’t? Pure speculation and hardly imaginative journalism.
What does he know that others don’t? Pure speculation and hardly imaginative journalism.
Everyone creams themselves when he posts ITK transfer information so why would this be any different?
Jesus Christ can't deliver the results we need this season. I would have thought you'd half dread Bilic getting the boot as then you'd have no purpose on the message board. Your raison d'etre / clear agenda is to constantly call for the blokes head.Again I've maybe seen one or two across many platforms who are anti Bilic , the majority want him to turn this around at least performance wise rather than be sacked.
I don't see how people can slate the state of the squad while also blaming Bilic for not getting them performing.
Bilic has his faults. We knew that before he came here. His record overall is OK nothing more. However this squad lacks the quality required to compete at this level.
how many of Slavs squad would get in your fantasy team ? :-\I don't have any from Burnley, Sheffield Utd., Brighton, West Ham, Fulham, Palace, Newcastle or Leeds either.
I just ditched Periera by the way.
The squad isn't great but it could certainly be more competitive. It's the way Bilic sets up that is the problem. If you have inferior players you cant go toe to toe with teams on a game by game basis. You have to be tactically astute and you have to be solid. We are from from solid, way too easy to play against and this is down to the way Bilic likes his teams to play.
Typical Albion, it always goes one of two ways with good managers. They do well and are then poached by a bigger club or the manager who has too much pride not to lie about the quality of the squad and knows it isn't good enough to compete says so in public and then gets the sack. What do we want? A manager who knows he isn't good enough to get a job elsewhere so pretends everything is peachy so as not to rock the boat? Albion just get someone who doesn't care the squad hasn't got a prayer and just wants a premier league job or get a defensive dinosaur who encourages us to waste as much time as possible taking goal kicks and throw ins and plays five centre halves across the back in the minuscule hope that we will finish 17th on goal difference.
This is an excellent summing up of how our club operates. My big concern is that the club will do exactly that which you describe in the second half of your post.Thanks mate. I love the Albion but they drive me mad.
My biggest concern is that we get a knee-jerk reaction after a particular defeat without thinking through the consequences. Wouldn't be the first time the club sacked a manager and were then left open mouthed when they realised there were hardly any suitable repacements. So you get a panic appointment or the youth team manager takes over. This squad has been set up to play decent attacking football, and couldn't perform in a manner which suited the style of many other managers. A number were attracted to the club because of Billic, and the chances are another manager would get far less out of them.
Going to be careful how I put this, but I do wonder who fits the Kevin Keegan of Newcastle period mould nowadays ?Can't get my eddie round it but, however it is they need to have experience playing the way we want to.
Thanks mate. I love the Albion but they drive me mad.
I think, when the transfer window closed and we all had a look at what we had got, I for one thought then and still do,think that we will be relegated. The squad of players is just not good enough no matter who is our manager.Totally get this view but the other side of this is the poor performances since Xmas and to be honest they are getting worse . How long can we go on with these results and more importantly the efforts on the field , there has to be a balance between both views .
I like Bilic and also think he attracts a decent amount of players who probably wouldn't give us a second glance. I do hope he can turn things around and keep his job to keep improving the squad. the players obviously like him and he plays the type of football we all crave for.
unless a top top manager comes along, I don't see any reasoning to get rid of him, we knew this season was going to be painful, but we must not forget the bigger picture.
I would be hugely disappointed to see him go but for me it’s not the defeats. It’s the manner of the defeats. I want performances like the second half at Brighton. I want to see pressing, chasing down, running at defences, pace. If we show that and lose so be it. But what was served up at Fulham is not acceptable.
Any posts containing names or suggestions for new managers will be removed, if it continues bans will be issued.
Hull Baggie,
Can you please explain to me where one should post any such a suggestion or name if it is not under the subject matters topic which,in this case,is Slaven Bilic?
Thanks
I would be hugely disappointed to see him go but for me it’s not the defeats. It’s the manner of the defeats. I want performances like the second half at Brighton. I want to see pressing, chasing down, running at defences, pace. If we show that and lose so be it. But what was served up at Fulham is not acceptable.
The short answer is nowhere. The forum doesn't allow new managers to be named/discussed while we still have a manager in place.
I thought we started the game well and looked up for a win. Fulham did not get a touch in the opening minutes. Then it all collapsed.
The one rule on here that I have never understood. You can't have a rational discussion on the merits of sacking Bilic without discussing who is available that would be any better, so the debate is suppressed.
It's also not much different from discussing new goalkeepers we should be looking to sign to replace Sam Johnstone, or owners to buy out Lai.
Plenty of other places you can discuss replacement managers just not on here.
But why? It's a bit confusing that we can't discuss potential situations like this especially when extremely likely to happen. I'm not moaning or anything, I just don't genuinely don't understand the reason why. I mean we can discuss potential replacements for our players, why is the manager any different?Its a rule from the owner of this site , well before my time but one we have to stick to.
Its a rule from the owner of this site , well before my time but one we have to stick to.
When exactly was the site first created Dex?Not sure , OldburyWba would know ;D
It was relaxed in the past though. I’m sure when Pulis was in charge it was temporarily allowed, so it’s not a hard and fast rule.Don't remember that mate.
Can any mods give any clarity on why it was allowed on that occasion?
Not sure , OldburyWba would know ;D
Don't remember that mate.
Found it....
http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=20937.0
Appears to answer my own question, seems like it was put to an admin / mod vote. ::)
Found it....
http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=20937.0
Appears to answer my own question, seems like it was put to an admin / mod vote. ::)
I also think it was on the day Pulis was sacked so we weren't discussing a new manager while we still had one. I think Pulis was sacked on 19th November (my birthday!) and it was reported in the media on Monday 20th.
I've seen a lot of people saying that Bilic should have started the game against Fulham with the same line up that finished the Brighton game, that would have meant having Phillips starting and Grant on the bench.
Haha, you know full well they (we) mean the system with Pereira in the middle and Livermore out the team.
He was definitely still in post as far as the board was concerned. In the first post Oldbury even says that it a vote of confidence comes it will be locked. It may have been very close to the trigger point but the basis of the post was definitely that having had a vote, the usual rule would be waived.
I also think it was on the day Pulis was sacked so we weren't discussing a new manager while we still had one. I think Pulis was sacked on 19th November (my birthday!) and it was reported in the media on Monday 20th.
that may be true but it was pretty common knowledge that his time was up, John Percy even commented on it on the 19th November 2017.
Bilic is still very much in post, there hasn't been an emergency meeting set to decide his future (that has been announced) so the situation with Bilic isn't the same as the one Pulis found himself in.
At the end of the day we all have to abide by the decision; Mods, admin, site donators, ordinary posters, everyone it's not as if it's one rule for some. As I said in an earlier post there are plenty of other places people can go to discuss replacements for Bilic.
I missed the first 25 mins, i've seen a few people say this. What went wrong?
I would be hugely disappointed to see him go but for me it’s not the defeats. It’s the manner of the defeats. I want performances like the second half at Brighton. I want to see pressing, chasing down, running at defences, pace. If we show that and lose so be it. But what was served up at Fulham is not acceptable.
The last word on any future manager/ coach discussion is this.
Until the person currently in the job is sacked then this forum will not be allowing any talk of future managers/ Head Coaches etc. End of story, we haven't done in the past and won't be doing in the future.
Some agree with it, some disagree but tough its a rule that will be staying and as its been mentioned its not actually in the rules thats no problem as I will amend them now.
Any issues with this pm me and I can repeat the exact same to you as i've just put here.
Anyone ignoring it will see their post removed
Can i ask a question please, calm down its not about managers, when was the first post on this site, thanks
HAve a look on the Mirror site for some news. Cant say anymore :D
No don't :D
Not 100% sure, I think I joined 2005 but it had been going few years before, possibly 2001 it started, Dudleylad, Atomic or maybe Tom McNeill will know.
Slaven is like many managers, seemingly good until the wheels come off the track, then they can't handle it.
Unfortunately for clubs like ours, most of the managers available have never won anything, and are unlikely to do it here.
Bilic has assembled the best squad he could given how much his hands have been tied.I didn't think we needed Krov as I thought he'd be too lightweight , other than that your post is bang on .
He can certainly spot a quality player or two.
But for reasons we can't fathom, he doesn't seem to see what we see and who his best XI are - and more to the point, where they should be placed on the pitch.
I really don't want to oversimplify it, but if he could get that right I think we'd be in with a shout to survive. I know we still have holes, but that could be enough for now. And I really like the geezer so I hope he gets it sorted.
I cant remember exactly but I don't think you are far out with 2001, certainly I remember being on here in 2002.
For anyone that doesn't know, we used to have a Sunday morning football team as well in the Warley League. I was manager so in future when anyone questions my opinions they need to think on. Not only am I incredibly knowledgable I also have managerial experience.
Therefore, I am always right, so dissenting voices 🤫
Thank you and goodnight. 😎😜
No he is like many Albion managers in that he does well with less finances than most other clubs, then the higher the team goes the more the gulf widens and not Pep or Klopp could do any better.Even if they did for a very short time another bigger club would poach them. Check the spending against the rest of the Prem teams and I bet we are 19th or 20th in spending. Every club finishes in proportion to their spending historically apart from one season wonders.
I cant remember exactly but I don't think you are far out with 2001, certainly I remember being on here in 2002.
For anyone that doesn't know, we used to have a Sunday morning football team as well in the Warley League. I was manager so in future when anyone questions my opinions they need to think on. Not only am I incredibly knowledgable I also have managerial experience.
Therefore, I am always right, so dissenting voices 🤫
Thank you and goodnight. 😎😜
I also played, captained and eventually managed that team. 😜
I really hope slaven turns it around, we cant keep chopping and changing managers, but that being said if say eveton came calling would he say no , I got project here I want to finish? I doubt it .
If that were the caseBaggiePhil, could you explain our poor performances and results playing football teams in the second tier of English football post December 2019 under Slaven Bilić?
Was it you that caused their ultimate demise? :P
The Mirror are speculating on a new manager to succeed Bilic. Nobody remotely reliable is running with this story at the minute so I am inclined to dismiss it as fanciful, but to some extent it is only credible because the wheels look like they are dropping off the Bilic bus.
It is almost ridiculous to have the conversation at 7 games into the season, it is frankly even more ridiculous that our Head Coach's future might hinge on fixtures against Spurs and Man United where we are facing a mismatch almost regardless of circumstances.
However the poor showing post restart is leaves Bilic in a precarious position. I am not calling for his head in part because I am far certain that this squad is capable of staying up regardless of who is in charge. If we think we have a genuine shot at staying up if we change the coach do it and do it now. If there isn't leave him in situ and start with a clean slate at the end of the season when Bilic's contract expires.
I cant remember exactly but I don't think you are far out with 2001, certainly I remember being on here in 2002.
For anyone that doesn't know, we used to have a Sunday morning football team as well in the Warley League. I was manager so in future when anyone questions my opinions they need to think on. Not only am I incredibly knowledgable I also have managerial experience.
Therefore, I am always right, so dissenting voices 🤫
Thank you and goodnight. 😎😜
I also played, captained and eventually managed that team. 😜
Slaven is like many managers, seemingly good until the wheels come off the track, then they can't handle it.Slaven is like all managers, has his ways, will do well sometimes, will not sometimes...
Unfortunately for clubs like ours, most of the managers available have never won anything, and are unlikely to do it here.
I cant remember exactly but I don't think you are far out with 2001, certainly I remember being on here in 2002.Fred west had kids....doesn’t make him a knowledgable father ?😂😂
For anyone that doesn't know, we used to have a Sunday morning football team as well in the Warley League. I was manager so in future when anyone questions my opinions they need to think on. Not only am I incredibly knowledgable I also have managerial experience.
Therefore, I am always right, so dissenting voices 🤫
Thank you and goodnight. 😎😜
Did Bilic play in the Sandwell and Warley Leagues as well?He was manager of the Smethwick home guard....refused to drop the captain and it did for him in the end
I thought this was a Bilic thread?
Did Bilic play in the Sandwell and Warley Leagues as well?
I thought this was a Bilic thread?
Not 100% sure, I think I joined 2005 but it had been going few years before, possibly 2001 it started, Dudleylad, Atomic or maybe Tom McNeill will know. The site has been revamped a couple of times with old posts lost. It was more than just a forum at one time but it got to the stage where no-one could spare the time to keep the rest of the site going so we had to drop it, shame as it was a goldmine of info with the daily news updated , match reports etc the lot.
He was manager of the Smethwick home guard....refused to drop the captain and it did for him in the end
I think part of it was due to having no crowds. it seemed to have affected us more than other teams. Without blowing our fans trumpet we were missed.
I’ve been on here since about 2003/4 i think??
Became more active in 2005 when in Australia as I used to Mod then.
It was going for a few years before I joined for sure
If you go to your profile info and then summary it gives you the exact date and time that you registered. ;)
What was the team name mate? I played in Warley and Sandwell County for years.
It was of course WestBrom.com! Division 5 if I remember.
There used to be a separate section on here for match reports and pictures etc. Not sure how many of the lads still post on here.
Masi
"A passionate and fiery Slaven Bilic has just spoken to the press. He says Albion are in a gunfight. But it's very clear he is up for the battle and - with Bilic saying he knows what is needed to get out of it. #wba"
If he plays Livermore or Sawyers clearly he doesnt know what is needed. Be interesting to see what Bilic picks.
Fred west had kids....doesn’t make him a knowledgable father ?😂😂
Lol.
Got to admit I've heard all sorts over the years but I've never been mentioned in the same breath as Fred West before.
Returning to topic subject reading Joe Masi's comments that Bilic is up for the fight and knowing what is needed - I don't believe for a second he does. Nice words but thats all it is just noise and that doesnt win football matches.
I don't believe Bilic has it in his make up to keep this squad in the league his footballing philosophy is all wrong for task in hand.
Do I hope I'm wrong, hell, yeah of course I do but I very much doubt it.
I will seriously start to doubt him if Phillips so much as makes the bench!
there couldn't be something in Matts contract along the lines of "if fit must play' (to earn bonuses, could there? The hierachy at WBAFC wouldn't have been that daft would they ????He hasn't been fit for 2 years though mate, seen less timber on a Scottish hillside!
there couldn't be something in Matts contract along the lines of "if fit must play' (to earn bonuses, could there? The hierachy at WBAFC wouldn't have been that daft would they ????
He looked fiery and resilient today when interviewed. Well top early to sack him. I would give him the season however if we were going to entertain this idea it camt be until after the leeds game in December.
Come on slaven sort them out and get us firing again
Ay carumba. If that were the case I'd put him on in the 90th minute. I used to really rate him, early on.....!
Lol.
Got to admit I've heard all sorts over the years but I've never been mentioned in the same breath as Fred West before.
Returning to topic subject reading Joe Masi's comments that Bilic is up for the fight and knowing what is needed - I don't believe for a second he does. Nice words but thats all it is just noise and that doesnt win football matches.
I don't believe Bilic has it in his make up to keep this squad in the league his footballing philosophy is all wrong for task in hand.
Do I hope I'm wrong, hell, yeah of course I do but I very much doubt it.
Like the spirit. It has made me feel less suicidal about the next game. Good for him.Most fired up I've see Bilic in months.
If you go to your profile info and then summary it gives you the exact date and time that you registered. ;)
I cant remember exactly but I don't think you are far out with 2001, certainly I remember being on here in 2002.
For anyone that doesn't know, we used to have a Sunday morning football team as well in the Warley League. I was manager so in future when anyone questions my opinions they need to think on. Not only am I incredibly knowledgable I also have managerial experience.
Therefore, I am always right, so dissenting voices 🤫
Thank you and goodnight. 😎😜
The side even had a celebrity striker didn’t it? I know a few of the lads who played for the side on off who weren’t on here, decent footballers.
Makes you realise just how long the sites been going. Loved the other parts of the website as well pre it going solely forum.
The squad isn't great but it could certainly be more competitive. It's the way Bilic sets up that is the problem. If you have inferior players you cant go toe to toe with teams on a game by game basis. You have to be tactically astute and you have to be solid. We are from from solid, way too easy to play against and this is down to the way Bilic likes his teams to play.
I think he's gone regardless of the result tomorrow. Suspect Dowling already has someone in mind.
THere is someone kind of lined up but we cant talk about it on here.
I heard that it’s Donald Trump or his son!
I think he's gone regardless of the result tomorrow. Suspect Dowling already has someone in mind.
Not sure what makes you say that?
Lack of extension on existing contract?
Yes but that’s in June next year. I believe the comment I responded to suggests his departure is imminent regardless of the result today and I disagree.
In just over an hours time we will find out if Slav wants to stay or not when he releases his team selection. Interesting to see what he changes if anything.Id guess at a return to 5 at the back.
Id guess at a return to 5 at the back.
So he doesn't want to keep it then? :DNo comment :D
Might as well sack him now. What a team to put out. Ffs.
That’s a very good shout for the worst starting XI in Premier League history.
I really don't think so.
I really don't think so.
Relative to the quality of the rest of the league it is. Don’t think a single one of those players would get into a Palace or a West Ham team and that’s embarrassing.
Definitely wants out even allowing for the 2 covid changes.
More the formation, we know it doesnt work.
So four at the back then against Son, Kane and Bale? Great idea.
Don't think Bilic can take any credit for the set up of the side. Spurs just weren't at the races and we still bottled it at the end.
I think that's him gone
If it is then the club really are clueless.
This team will be relegated irrespective as to who is in charge.
If it is then the club really are clueless.
This team will be relegated irrespective as to who is in charge.
Don't think Bilic can take any credit for the set up of the side. Spurs just weren't at the races and we still bottled it at the end.
Can't fault Bilic's approach at all today.
I criticise when required and equally I praise when required.
Last game or not, I dont know, but he got it right today.
Don't think Bilic can take any credit for the set up of the side. Spurs just weren't at the races and we still bottled it at the end.
If it is then the club really are clueless.
This team will be relegated irrespective as to who is in charge.
If ypu pick SJ week in week out i have no sympathy.
No doubt you will be very disappointed then when the next manager does the same thing.
Who is the next manager?
It won’t matter who it is, whilst SJ isn’t great he is better than Bond and Button.
SJ has been first choice under three different managers since he joined.
The problem wasnt just todays game. Its been for the last god knows how many games/months. Stats talk themselves. 1 win in 14. 1 goal in 5.
He isnt going to be here next year so might aswel get rid now and least give us a chance. Team was always going to come out today, but they didnt against fulham. Hes still got to go for me.
The problem wasnt just todays game. Its been for the last god knows how many games/months. Stats talk themselves. 1 win in 14. 1 goal in 5.
He isnt going to be here next year so might aswel get rid now and least give us a chance. Team was always going to come out today, but they didnt against fulham. Hes still got to go for me.
I didn’t like the approach, because I don’t like 5 at the back. However I’d agree that it’s hard to criticise Bilic today. The player Showed up for him and we nearly got a good point. He was also helped massively by spurs not being at the races though.
However It might be hard to criticise him after Man Utd, it might even be hard to criticise after Sheffield United too, however it’s another loss in what is now a horrific 11 month run.
I don’t think he will be sacked yet, I think we would have had to get smashed today for that, but it’s coming.
It’s a results business and ultimately despite all the plaudits are we just kicking the can down the road by keeping him just because we played better today.
I do think that there are plenty on here that should consider what supporter actually means. I don’t think it means we need to be unconditionally happy clappy about the team - but there is bugger all supportive of the team on these boards. The 11 who go out to play don’t pick themselves and we should be much more supportive than the perpetually negative rants on here.
Today was our best 90 mins of the season yet the overriding feeling in here is negativity and a desire to slag off individuals
You may well get your wish, however do you honestly believe the club are able to employ someone better.
I very much doubt it as they are useless and will want to see significant savings on wages once they have to pay up the contract of Bilic and the coaching staff.
I agree with this. The performance was good today, but it was woeful against Fulham and has been all season.He's bought himself sometime for me, what I dont want to see is switching of players and systems each game just yet.
Has he gone yet?
I do think that there are plenty on here that should consider what supporter actually means. I don’t think it means we need to be unconditionally happy clappy about the team - but there is bugger all supportive of the team on these boards. The 11 who go out to play don’t pick themselves and we should be much more supportive than the perpetually negative rants on here.
Today was our best 90 mins of the season yet the overriding feeling in here is negativity and a desire to slag off individuals
He has his favourites. He will play them at all costs, no matter how bad and useless they are. SJ, Bartley, Livermore, Phillips and Robson-Kanu, just to name a few. He is costing us staying up.
He has his favourites. He will play them at all costs, no matter how bad and useless they are. SJ, Bartley, Livermore, Phillips and Robson-Kanu, just to name a few. He is costing us staying up.
I dont think Bartley is a fave but he is definitely his 3rd choice ahead of Kipre. The rest are awful and should not be played unless we have no choice.
I do think that there are plenty on here that should consider what supporter actually means. I don’t think it means we need to be unconditionally happy clappy about the team - but there is bugger all supportive of the team on these boards. The 11 who go out to play don’t pick themselves and we should be much more supportive than the perpetually negative rants on here.I am not a happy clapper, i am not slagging off any individuals and it may well have been our best 90 minutes of the season but we LOST again and that is the most important statistic of the day.
Today was our best 90 mins of the season yet the overriding feeling in here is negativity and a desire to slag off individuals
Whilst I dont disagree with you Livernore has been a regular starter under Pulis, Megson, Pardew, Moore, Shan and Pulis
I don't think a new manager will drop him
Thats why he needs the captaincy taken off him, it's keeping him safe but who do we have thats a good leader? I don't know, genuine question.
Ivanovic
A portion of our online fanbase deserve Bilic to be sacked, two other manages to be sacked this season at least, the club to finish with less points than Derby in 2008, Diangana and Pereira to be sold off and a bottom half finish in the championship next season including a further couple of managerial sackings.
Has he gone yet?You thought we were going to get battered today. Instead we came within a couple of minutes of getting a draw against one of the best teams in the division, as well as putting in a much improved performance. I know it's hard, but try admitting that you were wrong, and giving a bit of credit where it's due. Not holding my breath though.
You thought we were going to get battered today. Instead we came within a couple of minutes of getting a draw against one of the best teams in the division, as well as putting in a much improved performance. I know it's hard, but try admitting that you were wrong, and giving a bit of credit where it's due. Not holding my breath though.
Spurs didn't turn up, at all.. We got lucky in that respect and still conspired to lose the game. Sugar coat the situation all you want. His time is coming to an end.
Spurs didn't turn up, at all.. We got lucky in that respect and still conspired to lose the game. Sugar coat the situation all you want. His time is coming to an end.I don't think we had much luck at all. Spurs didn't turn up because we defended well (aside from the Johnstone blunder).
Agreed. No Pereira or Ivanovich due to Covid. We scrap all match and it's even against a side who demolished Southampton and Man Utd. We lose thanks to having a clown keeper that the manager wanted to be replace. It's bang out of order for fans to then criticise Bilic for that performance and result, some of our fans are a disgrace.It could be said that those who don’t wish to honestly criticise are guilty of burying their heads and that in itself is a disgrace....but we don’t need the name calling..
But but but he’s a great bloke apparently and that’s the best qualification for the job in some quarters .
But but but he’s a great bloke apparently and that’s the best qualification for the job I some quarters .
Please show me where someone has suggested being a great bloke is the best qualification.Well before we all waste many posts ....maybe they didn’t exactly use those words,, but some have said that he’s aâ€great guy†and “caresâ€.....which is strange because they haven’t spent any length of time with him...
We deserved a draw. The goal was a sucker punch. We are not going to get a better Manager on this budget. They are his players. Sheff Utd at home is massive, if we don't win that then questions will be asked.Pretty much how I saw it. We're wrong though. Apparently it was all down to Spurs not showing up.
The point today is we didn't allow Spurs to play and closed down the spaces we'll.
Pretty much how I saw it. We're wrong though. Apparently it was all down to Spurs not showing up.Would you have brought Phillips on?
Well before we all waste many posts ....maybe they didn’t exactly use those words,, but some have said that he’s aâ€great guy†and “caresâ€.....which is strange because they haven’t spent any length of time with him...
Anyway , that aside , he’s in trouble, yes he had a coup,e unavailable today, but I don’t think there is anyone who actually would have played Phillips over Grosiki....other than perhaps phillips’s mom...(and I’ve heard she ain’t sure)
Bilic seems fed up...he has done some public moaning, usually that goes only one way....has he ever left a job without a pay off ?
Well before we all waste many posts ....maybe they didn’t exactly use those words,, but some have said that he’s aâ€great guy†and “caresâ€.....which is strange because they haven’t spent any length of time with him...
Anyway , that aside , he’s in trouble, yes he had a coup,e unavailable today, but I don’t think there is anyone who actually would have played Phillips over Grosiki....other than perhaps phillips’s mom...(and I’ve heard she ain’t sure)
Bilic seems fed up...he has done some public moaning, usually that goes only one way....has he ever left a job without a pay off ?
I think he has much to moan about to be honest.3-0 up vs Chelsea ....we have no ambition
The club have no ambition whatsoever.
The only possibility of this squad staying up is if three other sides underperform on a massive scale. We have the worst squad in the division.
Would you have brought Phillips on?No. Not sure what your point is though.
3-0 up vs Chelsea ....we have no ambition
18m on a winger when we already have 4 ....we have no ambition
Manager wants, Krov,Diangana,ivanovic,Gallagher,Grant....he got them all...we have no ambition.
Maybe play button, kipre, Grosiki, maybe admit that Johnstone,sawyers,Livermore,Phillips are just not good enough ....maybe it’s not “the clubâ€
I think he has much to moan about to be honest.
The club have no ambition whatsoever.
The only possibility of this squad staying up is if three other sides underperform on a massive scale. We have the worst squad in the division.
But but but he’s a great bloke apparently and that’s the best qualification for the job in some quarters .Petty post. You may want Slav out, I don't. Nothing to do with him being a 'nice bloke' . Just maybe some of us think we need a longer term view, that there are no decent managers out there, have no faith in the board to appoint anyone better, feel he's been hung out to dry in terms of funds and recruitment. Sadly, we are out of our depth. The Premier League has moved on. We need to build something, even if that means relegation. The recruitment of younger players like Grady, Grant, MP is a start with that.
But but but he’s a great bloke apparently and that’s the best qualification for the job in some quarters .
You thought we were going to get battered today. Instead we came within a couple of minutes of getting a draw against one of the best teams in the division, as well as putting in a much improved performance. I know it's hard, but try admitting that you were wrong, and giving a bit of credit where it's due. Not holding my breath though.Nice to see a sensible comment after all the rubbish that's said by know- it- all supporters!
Petty post. You may want Slav out, I don't. Nothing to do with him being a 'nice bloke' . Just maybe some of us think we need a longer term view, that there are no decent managers out there, have no faith in the board to appoint anyone better, feel he's been hung out to dry in terms of funds and recruitment. Sadly, we are out of our depth. The Premier League has moved on. We need to build something, even if that means relegation. The recruitment of younger players like Grady, Grant, MP is a start with that.
Petty post. You may want Slav out, I don't. Nothing to do with him being a 'nice bloke' . Just maybe some of us think we need a longer term view, that there are no decent managers out there, have no faith in the board to appoint anyone better, feel he's been hung out to dry in terms of funds and recruitment. Sadly, we are out of our depth. The Premier League has moved on. We need to build something, even if that means relegation. The recruitment of younger players like Grady, Grant, MP is a start with that.Exactly. And I would say we are building something. But we aren't a club with loads of money to buy instant success so it is a slower process. We need to be patient, though football fans don't always have that commodity in abundance. At some point we need to give a manager 3 or 4 years though if we really want to see progress in the medium time
I don't want Bilic sacked .
He's a breath of fresh air compared to the last jokers.
Give him until Christmas if no improvement then review the situation.
Only Eddie How's would do as a replacement in my opinion.
But either way its the same players whoever is in charge.
At the end of the day we have to do SOMETHING. Either dismiss him or offer him a new contract. All this talk of building slowly (despite huge regression on the field of play over a concerted period) is pie in the sky when he's got just 8 months left on his contract.Having seen that performance today ,I do not think that this group of players can do much better , but we still did not score let alone win. There will be many games when they do not perform at that level.
At the end of the day we have to do SOMETHING. Either dismiss him or offer him a new contract. All this talk of building slowly (despite huge regression on the field of play over a concerted period) is pie in the sky when he's got just 8 months left on his contract.Well, huge regression over a concerted period is overstating things, but yes, I take your point. The contract thing needs to be addressed for sure, but not until the new year. If doing something means changing the manager every 18 months, then the vicious circle will just start all over again. At some point we have to stick with a manager. Bilic is far from perfect but he's also a lot better than a few others we have had over the last 20 years, so I would stick with him. Just my opinion of course.
Well, huge regression over a concerted period is overstating things, but yes, I take your point. The contract thing needs to be addressed for sure, but not until the new year. If doing something means changing the manager every 18 months, then the vicious circle will just start all over again. At some point we have to stick with a manager. Bilic is far from perfect but he's also a lot better than a few others we have had over the last 20 years, so I would stick with him. Just my opinion of course.
Exactly. And I would say we are building something. But we aren't a club with loads of money to buy instant success so it is a slower process. We need to be patient, though football fans don't always have that commodity in abundance. At some point we need to give a manager 3 or 4 years though if we really want to see progress in the medium timeAgree with a lot of that, one thing you missed though, with such limited resources, we can't afford to discard players just because the manager didn't personally sanction their signings. Nor can we persist with continually under performing players.
Bertie, he looked out of his depth for large periods in the Championship.Having lost 50 goals in JRod and Gayle, to get us anywhere near the Premier League was an incredible effort.
If you think we’re going down to come straight back up again, I think you need the reality check in terms of your longer term view.
Spurs didn't turn up, at all.. We got lucky in that respect and still conspired to lose the game. Sugar coat the situation all you want. His time is coming to an end.
Having lost 50 goals in JRod and Gayle, to get us anywhere near the Premier League was an incredible effort.
Exactly. And I would say we are building something. But we aren't a club with loads of money to buy instant success so it is a slower process. We need to be patient, though football fans don't always have that commodity in abundance. At some point we need to give a manager 3 or 4 years though if we really want to see progress in the medium time
and if he accepts that then give him a new contract.
We did not bomb out SGM we gave him another chance because similarly we was not financially backed. Alternatively replace him now.
It’s alright saying Spurs didn’t turn up but that is the only chance we have of getting something against a top 6 team.
If spurs did ‘turn up’ then no matter what Slav did we would have lost
No manager has been at our club for 3 years since Gary Megson joined us 20 years ago.Yes, that's the point I was making.
Tell me where do you rate this squad in the premier league?Bottom with a manager that persists in weird selections and formations , somewhere between 10th and bottom if they are utilised properly .
Petty post. You may want Slav out, I don't. Nothing to do with him being a 'nice bloke' . Just maybe some of us think we need a longer term view, that there are no decent managers out there, have no faith in the board to appoint anyone better, feel he's been hung out to dry in terms of funds and recruitment. Sadly, we are out of our depth. The Premier League has moved on. We need to build something, even if that means relegation. The recruitment of younger players like Grady, Grant, MP is a start with that.Longer term view
I don't want Bilic sacked .So you don’t want him sacked (fine, your opinion) but you would review at Christmas....what if we are running at the same run rate of points and he’s still picking Phillips she’d of Grosiki, not giving Kipre a chance etc....why would you rather wait?
He's a breath of fresh air compared to the last jokers.
Give him until Christmas if no improvement then review the situation.
Only Eddie How's would do as a replacement in my opinion.
But either way its the same players whoever is in charge.
Bottom with a manager that persists in weird selections and formations , somewhere between 10th and bottom if they are utilised properly .
If you seriously believe this squad is capable of finishing 10th I think you will be very disappointed irrespective as to who is in charge.You thought Leicester would win the title ?
You thought Leicester would win the title ?
Grant, Robinson,kipre,Pererira,Diangana,Grosiki , Gallagher,krovinovic,Ajeyi,Gibbs, have all got enough in them to finish 10th.
Sawyers,Johnstone,Livermore,Phillips, Austin really have not
You thought Leicester would win the title ?
Grant, Robinson,kipre,Pererira,Diangana,Grosiki , Gallagher,krovinovic,Ajeyi,Gibbs, have all got enough in them to finish 10th.
Sawyers,Johnstone,Livermore,Phillips, Austin really have not
He's bought himself sometime for me, what I dont want to see is switching of players and systems each game just yet.
We looked solid , compact and with a tad more luck would have scored.
Surely the economic approach is to let him run down his contract then we don't waste precious money paying him off. Our reputation for knee-jerk sacking of managers is not a good look and not attractive to prospective managers. Given the spending power of other teams, even Sheffield Utd, only wild optimism could lead one to think a manager we are capable of attracting could keep us up.
The club could use the time to decide what its strategy actually is. It seems that we're always involved in a promotion or relegation scrap and no-one is thinking whether we're a nursery club based on our academy or a scouting club using a comprehensive set of stats. (Based on some of our recent acquisitions our current assessment system is poor and signing Ivanovitch is surely the outcome of desperate, last minute panic.) If it's a hybrid - what are the proportions of academy to scouted players?
We should always be researching the next manager because if the current one is good, he (or she!?) will be poached and if they're bad, we will eventually fire them. Peace always seemed to have someone ready whether you agreed with the choice is not the point.
For what it's worth, I think we did well on Saturday given that Pereira was unavailable.
Wouldn't be offering Bilic new contract unless results improve, went down that road with Pulis. Then had to back him in transfer market, how did that work out? Slaven needs to work with players at his disposal and build bridges with others who might do a job for him.Agree. Madness to offer new contract as it would just increase his payout if the slide continues. New contracts are earned with results and performances, we are nowhere near either yet.
I don’t know whether to laugh at the idea of offering Bilić a 3 year contract extension or the foolishness of whoever posted it.
Whoever it was, thank God they’re not a member of the Albion board. Talk about the lunatics taking over the asylum 🤣
I don’t know whether to laugh at the idea of offering Bilić a 3 year contract extension or the foolishness of whoever posted it.Ah takes me back Fun boy three :D
Whoever it was, thank God they’re not a member of the Albion board. Talk about the lunatics taking over the asylum 🤣
I don’t know whether to laugh at the idea of offering Bilić a 3 year contract extension or the foolishness of whoever posted it.
Whoever it was, thank God they’re not a member of the Albion board. Talk about the lunatics taking over the asylum 🤣
Count me in then. :D I’d happily extend his contract. We are Albion not ACMilan. He’s as good as we will get. The bigger issue is whether he would even want to stay.How on earth do you come to the conclusion that he is the best we can get?
If we're not going to make the change now, then I hope he's given the rest of the season. About time we had stability but I do feel something is brewing in the background regarding the ownership of the club. Worth listening to the liquidator podcast with Adrian Goldberg and Chris Lepkowski.Do you mean the journo who is bitter towards the clubs hierarchy?....do you think it’ll be objective comments?
https://www.buzzsprout.com/987004/6279955-bilic-hokey-cokey-more-yasha-ge-nobby-stiles-r-i-p-west-brom-pubs
How on earth do you come to the conclusion that he is the best we can get?
I don’t know whether to laugh at the idea of offering Bilić a 3 year contract extension or the foolishness of whoever posted it.
Whoever it was, thank God they’re not a member of the Albion board. Talk about the lunatics taking over the asylum 🤣
Do you mean the journo who is bitter towards the clubs hierarchy?....do you think it’ll be objective comments?Chris Lepowski was treated badly by the club, but above all else he is a Baggie and his co-editor Adrian Goldberg is too. The club got rid of the wrong bloke, Dingle Swain should have gone.
Chris Lepowski was treated badly by the club, but above all else he is a Baggie and his co-editor Adrian Goldberg is too. The club got rid of the wrong bloke, Dingle Swain should have gone.
Ah takes me back Fun boy three :D
I did ask earlier if your Partisan handle is associated with Partizan Belgrade, I don't think I saw a response, if you did answer my apologies but can you refresh my memory.
Chris Lepowski was treated badly by the club, but above all else he is a Baggie and his co-editor Adrian Goldberg is too. The club got rid of the wrong bloke, Dingle Swain should have gone.
Chris Lepowski was treated badly by the club, but above all else he is a Baggie and his co-editor Adrian Goldberg is too. The club got rid of the wrong bloke, Dingle Swain should have gone.Bully was a baggie....do you think that stops the wolf’s from adoring him ...it matters more that the job can be done...I have no knowledge about the internal workings nor would I profess or want to...what I do know is he was “within†the club and never said boo...then wasn’t “within†and has been non stop bad mouthing ....foolish to suggest sour grapes?
Because in my opinion I think he’s doing a pretty good job. Had he been given another two or three players in the areas he wanted I think he’d have been able to show it. But all in all I think he has done well.Do you think he handled himself well re the kipre signing?
Do you think he handled himself well re the kipre signing?
Do you honestly believe that other similar grade coaches would not have us on more points?
It worries me Zip when some of our fans say Bilić is doing a good job.Me too
In today's Mail for anyone interested.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8942387/West-Brom-chiefs-deciding-sack-winless-Slaven-Bilic.html
If we were to sack him ,where do we go.
This club has a habit of taking an age to get a manger in. It took us weeks to get Pulis, Pardew, Mel. The mess the club made of sacking Darren Moore. We should have sacked Pulis far earlier than when we did.
Getting sick of the circus around our club.He has been backed, “players†plural= multiple, I can think of one who may come under that bracket, a certain central defender that he hardly played, has had two positional replacements brought in and was at the absolute peak of value in terms of transfer and shifting wages.
We are run by clowns though so perhaps ‘circus’ is the perfect analogy currently.
Haven’t backed him financially.
Sold players under his nose.
Farcical, at a time when we should be united to stay up
Wet finger in the air speculative articles in the Mirror and the Mail relating to a manager in the bottom three without a win this season or towards the end of the last one. I don't suppose we're in international week with a need to fill column inches by any chance? News or prodding a wound hoping for winces? Who knows....Spot on Dan.
Wet finger in the air speculative articles in the Mirror and the Mail relating to a manager in the bottom three without a win this season or towards the end of the last one. I don't suppose we're in international week with a need to fill column inches by any chance? News or prodding a wound hoping for winces? Who knows....Good point. And even if it the reports had any substance to them, it would surely be a bit desparate to be interested in a manager who's just got relegated into League 1 on his CV.
Me too
I see people saying extend his contract to test his commitment and that we should keep him for the long term because we need stability...
I just don’t get it ,the amount if repeat decisions like using Phillips ....it just erodes the faith and respect .
No way should we even consider extending Bilić’s contract Zip. Rewarding mediocrity, no thanks 👎🏻Yes, you and your pal agree about that. We get it. But let me ask you this. Which of out recent permanent managers do you prefer, because this gives you some indication of the type of manager we would get next time around. Darren Moore? Alan Pardew? Tony Pulis?
Yes, you and your pal agree about that. We get it. But let me ask you this. Which of out recent permanent managers do you prefer, because this gives you some indication of the type of manager we would get next time around. Darren Moore? Alan Pardew? Tony Pulis?
Alan Irvine? Pepe Mel?
In other words, be careful what you wish for.
Also, rewarding mediocracy is a ridiculous comment. If we sacked Bilic now he would become the permanent West Brom manager with the highest win ratio since Ossie Ardiles, and the second highest EVER !!
Yes, you and your pal agree about that. We get it. But let me ask you this. Which of out recent permanent managers do you prefer, because this gives you some indication of the type of manager we would get next time around. Darren Moore? Alan Pardew? Tony Pulis?
Alan Irvine? Pepe Mel?
In other words, be careful what you wish for.
Also, rewarding mediocracy is a ridiculous comment. If we sacked Bilic now he would become the permanent West Brom manager with the highest win ratio since Ossie Ardiles, and the second highest EVER !!
He is also 3-4 games away from being the Albion manager who has presided over the most games without a win, of all time.
He is also 3-4 games away from being the Albion manager who has presided over the most games without a win, of all time.Haha. You got any evidence for that claim? In any case, you are looking into the future and speculating. What I said was just fact.
The first four months of Bilic's reign were an abnormality that was aided massively be a big skill advantage.
Yes, you and your pal agree about that. We get it. But let me ask you this. Which of out recent permanent managers do you prefer, because this gives you some indication of the type of manager we would get next time around. Darren Moore? Alan Pardew? Tony Pulis?I agree and disagree with many on here, doesn’t make them pals or enemies...
Alan Irvine? Pepe Mel?
In other words, be careful what you wish for.
Also, rewarding mediocracy is a ridiculous comment. If we sacked Bilic now he would become the permanent West Brom manager with the highest win ratio since Ossie Ardiles, and the second highest EVER !!
Yep. The support Bilic has from the fanbase is remarkable and at the same time a bit silly.
I've criticised him a number of times and given praise when due. I have not called for his head but he does need a win very soon otherwise he simply cant last.
Haha. You got any evidence for that claim? In any case, you are looking into the future and speculating. What I said was just fact.
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2017/12/12/west-brom-on-verge-of-unwanted-club-record/
There you go. Buckley went 15 games without a win. We have gone 20 as a club, but that was multiple managers. I think Pulis only survived 10 of those.
Slav has currently gone 12, which included four 'cup finals' in the championship. Yes I am speculating, but speculating on recent evidence is a far better basis to speculate on than our form of a year ago.
Yet some want us to give him a new contract. Madness. If he can stop the run and beat Sheffield United or Palace he might save his job. I don't think he will beat the record though, because he will be sacked before Newcastle if we don't get a win.
When Billic was appointed he was given a 2 year plan to get the club promoted. He achieved that in one year. It is a building process. To expect we would be mid-table in the Prem by now back in 2018 would have been seen as over optimistic.
When Billic was appointed he was given a 2 year plan to get the club promoted. He achieved that in one year. It is a building process. To expect we would be mid-table in the Prem by now back in 2018 would have been seen as over optimistic.
Come on alex1, it was imperative we were promoted last season. The pressure got to everyone working at the club because of the financial implications which we were facing. Huge bonuses were paid to ensure it. I read £20million came out of our promotion budget to cover it. This was an 80% increase from the £12million promotion bonus offered the season before.
The two year contract itself was negotiated by Bilić’s representatives. It may have been sold to the fans as a 2 year project, but as far as the board were concerned it needed to be done in one season. Mark Jenkins’ body language during the last game of the season at home to QPR tells you all you need to know about how much was riding on the promotion.
That’s a very narrow way to look at it. Context is important and makes a huge difference. Buckley didn’t get us promoted in his first season and then make the huge leap to the premier league with an extremely low budget. Pulis spent all the money we’d made and was well on the way to taking us down. Hardly a like for like comparison and Bilic compares well against those examples.
It will be the worst run in our history. That is context.
It's an entirely misleading context. It is churlish to compare a sequence of results in the Premiership against Alan Buckley's rain in the bottom half of the championship. The Premiership this season is the strongest it has ever been and we are seriously out gunned. So many mid-table clubs with serious money and ambition, coupled with the elite and then our promotion rivals loaded up with cash and ambition.I hope Bilic stays and pull's this round but the run of results and poor performances goes back to Xmas last year in the second tier as we all know .
It could be the worst run in our history under a single manager. That is context.
Come on alex1, it was imperative we were promoted last season. The pressure got to everyone working at the club because of the financial implications which we were facing. Huge bonuses were paid to ensure it. I read £20million came out of our promotion budget to cover the bonuses paid upon promotion. This was an 80% increase from the £12million promotion bonus offered the season before.Yes, of course there were bonuses paid for promotion and of course Mark Jenkins celebrated when we got promoted, as I'm sure all WBA fans did. I still don't really know what you want. To be comfortable mid table in the Premier league, even given the very modest amount we spent? It is a building process and Bilic deserves a decent chance. Billic made it clear he chose Albion, not that it was just like a lottery ticket he drew.
The two year contract itself was negotiated by Bilić’s representatives. It may have been sold to the fans as a 2 year project, but as far as the board were concerned it needed to be done at first attempt. Mark Jenkins’ body language during the last game of the season at home to QPR tells you all you need to know about how much was riding on the promotion.
If Bilić achieves that record, some on here will want to celebrate the milestone by offering him a contract extension 😜
I believe I was the first to moot a contract extension on here. I'm wavering on the very edge of the Bilić out camp, but one of the major reasons for not sacking him is apparently torpedoing the mythical 'long-term plan'. In my opinion, with his contract expiring in 8 months there is no long term plan or vision under his stewardship, so if we are not going to sack him then we need to extend or else we're just kicking the can down the road to June 2021 when we're a much less attractive prospect to any new manager having just been relegated.
I believe I was the first to moot a contract extension on here. I'm wavering on the very edge of the Bilić out camp, but one of the major reasons for not sacking him is apparently torpedoing the mythical 'long-term plan'. In my opinion, with his contract expiring in 8 months there is no long term plan or vision under his stewardship, so if we are not going to sack him then we need to extend or else we're just kicking the can down the road to June 2021 when we're a much less attractive prospect to any new manager having just been relegated.
Yes, of course there were bonuses paid for promotion and of course Mark Jenkins celebrated when we got promoted, as I'm sure all WBA fans did. I still don't really know what you want. To be comfortable mid table in the Premier league, even given the very modest amount we spent? It is a building process and Bilic deserves a decent chance. Billic made it clear he chose Albion, not that it was just like a lottery ticket he drew.
If we keep changing managers every 1 to 2 years, then its a merry-go-round at best, but more likely, we appoint a manager with far lesser credentials than Billic and we go on a downward spiral from which we may not recover.
I believe we have to stay with Bilic.
The position we are in as a club is not just down to Bilic.
A huge part is the board (and there financial backing), the players (some of which Bilic has brought in ans some which Bilic didn't want) and the Covid situation.
The crazy thing is...
If we were in this mess with any other manager and Bilic was available, we would be clambering over ourselves to employ him.
I say stick with him and see this season through, yes we may go down but I hate the thought of just sacking people wehn they have had one arm tied behind their back finacially.
Isn't that the definition of insanity-doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? If we get rid, all I can see is weeks and weeks to appoint a successor followed by relegation and a repeat in 12-18mnths time. Barmy
"This may or may not come as a surprise to you alex1, but we’ve been on a manager merry-go-round for 45 years now. It’s how we work as a club."
Isn't that the definition of insanity-doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? If we get rid, all I can see is weeks and weeks to appoint a successor followed by relegation and a repeat in 12-18mnths time. Barmy
Is anyone who watched us last season surprised by our results? We are lightweight in so many areas including ownership/leadership. But I don't particularly blame Bilic. We are so much better to watch - and isn't that the point? I was disappointed we sacked DM and would be equally so if we we sacked Slav.
He has been backed, “players†plural= multiple, I can think of one who may come under that bracket, a certain central defender that he hardly played, has had two positional replacements brought in and was at the absolute peak of value in terms of transfer and shifting wages.
You seriously think he has been backed financially and enough to keep us competitive in this league??I’d keep this squad up, I’d play players on form, I’d have no favourites and my first purchase this season wouldn’t have been 18m on a winger , rather I would have used that money to get a very active cdm.
I’d keep this squad up, I’d play players on form, I’d have no favourites and my first purchase this season wouldn’t have been 18m on a winger , rather I would have used that money to get a very active cdm.
I believe I was the first to moot a contract extension on here. I'm wavering on the very edge of the Bilić out camp, but one of the major reasons for not sacking him is apparently torpedoing the mythical 'long-term plan'. In my opinion, with his contract expiring in 8 months there is no long term plan or vision under his stewardship, so if we are not going to sack him then we need to extend or else we're just kicking the can down the road to June 2021 when we're a much less attractive prospect to any new manager having just been relegated.
I’d keep this squad up, I’d play players on form, I’d have no favourites and my first purchase this season wouldn’t have been 18m on a winger , rather I would have used that money to get a very active cdm.
I honestly think there is too much water under the bridge for them to consider an extension.I'd agree about dynamics pre Spurs but Bilic looked much more like it in his Pre match interviews . He also looked better on the sidelines I thought and indeed the team looked better.
I can certainly see the next appointment being a bland character who would tow the line and not brief the press calling out the boards miserable efforts.
The dynamics between them are broken.
Since the beginning of the millennium, we have had 13 permanent Head Coaches and 9 interim Head Coaches. That’s an average turnover, of someone new at the helm, ever 10.9 months, let the implications of that sink in for a minute or two.How many of the ones sacked do you think should have stayed and why?
No wonder, as a club, we are and have been in a mess for much of that time as “Continuityâ€, “West Bromwich Albion†and “Head Coach†are words that are not synonymous when used in the same sentence to describe us.
But the search for the mythical “Holy Grailâ€, aka the mythical right “Head Coach†will commence its merry “dance macabre†once more with an oh too familiar outcome as Owners, Players and fans all line up to take their turn in the dance of death for the next victim, metaphorically speaking of course.
However and unfortunately, I suspect Liam’s assessment will be proven correct and we will be placing an Ad in the Situations Vacant column very soon, which is not what I would want.
How many of the ones sacked do you think should have stayed and why?
It's ok blaming the club for everything and wishing for continuity but how far do you take it? How many more games can we go without a win? Christmas, Easter, all season. Genuine question by the way.
The truth is, with most, we will never know as they weren't given enough time.Who else sacks managers but the club so, surely, they must shoulder the blame for not allowing adequate time?
I never mentioned blame, you did. I said owners, players and fans all seek the "Holy Grail".
How far do we take it? Well, longer than our average for a start.
"If you can meet success and failure and treat them both as impostors, then you are a balanced man, my son.â€
Since the beginning of the millennium, we have had 13 permanent Head Coaches and 9 interim Head Coaches. That’s an average turnover, of someone new at the helm, ever 10.9 months, let the implications of that sink in for a minute or two.
No wonder, as a club, we are and have been in a mess for much of that time as “Continuityâ€, “West Bromwich Albion†and “Head Coach†are words that are not synonymous when used in the same sentence to describe us.
But the search for the mythical “Holy Grailâ€, aka the mythical right “Head Coach†will commence its merry “dance macabre†once more with an oh too familiar outcome as Owners, Players and fans all line up to take their turn in the dance of death for the next victim, metaphorically speaking of course.
However and unfortunately, I suspect Liam’s assessment will be proven correct and we will be placing an Ad in the Situations Vacant column very soon, which is not what I would want.
I'm with this. Please don't think for a minute that I'm comparing Slaven with Ferguson but when Fergie started at Man U, there was discontent (e.g. you'll never win with kids). Like I say I'm not making a comparison but some longevity of someone in charge cannot be undervalued; we've chopped and changed so much - especially in the last decade - the only thing we've been consistent in is inconsistency.
Do I think Bilic can keep us up this season? I actually think we are going to finish 17th or 18th so who knows right now. But do I fancy anyone else's chances of making that silk purse out of sow's ears? No. And would I fancy going on that appointment merry-go-round again at the moment? No. Every time we do that it feels like the board are playing Russian Roulette.
Won't be a popular opinion but I think we see where we are end of this season, then act.
Who else sacks managers but the club so, surely, they must shoulder the blame for not allowing adequate time?
So how long does he get? What is your limit? How many more games can we lose to beat the average?
Since the beginning of the millennium, we have had 13 permanent Head Coaches and 9 interim Head Coaches. That’s an average turnover, of someone new at the helm, ever 10.9 months, let the implications of that sink in for a minute or two.
No wonder, as a club, we are and have been in a mess for much of that time as “Continuityâ€, “West Bromwich Albion†and “Head Coach†are words that are not synonymous when used in the same sentence to describe us.
But the search for the mythical “Holy Grailâ€, aka the mythical right “Head Coach†will commence its merry “dance macabre†once more with an oh too familiar outcome as Owners, Players and fans all line up to take their turn in the dance of death for the next victim, metaphorically speaking of course.
However and unfortunately, I suspect Liam’s assessment will be proven correct and we will be placing an Ad in the Situations Vacant column very soon, which is not what I would want.
Not that it really matters, but the “you’ll never win anything with kids†comment wasn’t made until about 10 years and 2 league titles in to Alex Ferguson’s reign.
I'm with this. Please don't think for a minute that I'm comparing Slaven with Ferguson but when Fergie started at Man U, there was discontent (e.g. you'll never win with kids). Like I say I'm not making a comparison but some longevity of someone in charge cannot be undervalued; we've chopped and changed so much - especially in the last decade - the only thing we've been consistent in is inconsistency.
Do I think Bilic can keep us up this season? I actually think we are going to finish 17th or 18th so who knows right now. But do I fancy anyone else's chances of making that silk purse out of sow's ears? No. And would I fancy going on that appointment merry-go-round again at the moment? No. Every time we do that it feels like the board are playing Russian Roulette.
Won't be a popular opinion but I think we see where we are end of this season, then act.
It was a risky decision to use Bilić as your profile picture AlbionFan. You’re going to have the hassle of changing it soon buddy!
I think it was Alan Hansen on Match of the Day when they lost their opening fixture to the Vile......
So obviously you rate this squad very highly, if someone such as yourself who I’m guessing has no managerial experience at semi pro level or above could keep them up.Opinions...you say yours but try and make mine up?
Where do you think this squad is good enough to finish say if we had a manager who had about 10/15 years prem experience? If you think you could keep them up surely you see it as about a top 8 squad?
Either that or you rate yourself very highly as a manger :o :D
In my opinion this squad is easily the 20th best out of 20
No hassle at all, I’m an AlbionFan and as such, it’s second nature old pal!
I honestly think there is too much water under the bridge for them to consider an extension.
I can certainly see the next appointment being a bland character who would tow the line and not brief the press calling out the boards miserable efforts.
The dynamics between them are broken.
It was a risky decision to use Bilić as your profile picture AlbionFan. You’re going to have the hassle of changing it soon buddy!
I’d keep this squad up
I honestly think there is too much water under the bridge for them to consider an extension.
I can certainly see the next appointment being a bland character who would tow the line and not brief the press calling out the boards miserable efforts.
The dynamics between them are broken.
Genuine question for you: given that you are hell bent on Slaven losing his job, and bizarrely this started as he was winning promotion last season, what do you think the club should then do when they grant you your wish?How about get someone who would:
Not that it really matters, but the “you’ll never win anything with kids†comment wasn’t made until about 10 years and 2 league titles in to Alex Ferguson’s reign.
I always find it odd that a Head Coach in semi public dispute with the board is seen to be a good thing. There isn't a pot of untapped money that will suddenly made available no matter what the Head Coach says or does.
We have to let Bilic work out his contract because:
1) we can't afford to pay him off
2) there's nobody available can keep the present squad in the EPL
3) with our reputation there will be no decent, self-respecting manager willing to join us
(maybe Partizan Belgrade has such a gent ::))
4) At least the football is not negative. I don't think the likes of Gallagher would have wanter to spend a year under he tutelage of the likes of the Pulis.
:oI’ve been out with better, stoodi bakers was a veritable feast of hotties 😀
You'd have more chance pulling Cameron Diaz.
The last time I heard such bravado and hyperbole it was an Alan Pardew pre-match interview.
Jesus Christ himself couldn't keep this lot up with Sam Johnstone in goal.
How about get someone who would:
Drop our calamity keeper
Drop captain can't tackle
Pick from the entire squad
Focus on football rather than publicly slagging off the board
Pick a formation that suits our strengths
And finally....... Win a game.
And I'm not "hell bent" on him losing his job but to ignore his weaknesses is naive.
Genuine question for you: given that you are hell bent on Slaven losing his job, and bizarrely this started as he was winning promotion last season, what do you think the club should then do when they grant you your wish?
Thanks for that. It was not you to whom I addressed the post.It's a forum.
Has anyone who thinks Bilic is the right man, said how long they would give him without a win before you would accept we have to act?
Act in what way? If we were going to replace him with Irvine, I'd say stick with Bilic even if we go the season winless.We have alternative options to both of these, but Bilic won't use them.
What I don't get is that the same fans who say our players are nowhere near good enough, also seem to want the manager out. But bringing in an allegedly better manager isn't going to suddenly make Townsend a better left back, or make SJ good at crosses. Either you think the players are good enough and a better manager would get more out of them, or that the players aren't good enough, in which case a better manager is going to struggle anyway.
And none of that address what kind of manager we'd get as replacement. There's no guarantee we'd get a swashbuckling attacking manager who suddenly gets everything to click. All evidence points to getting a manager who would look to shut up shop.
Has anyone who thinks Bilic is the right man, said how long they would give him without a win before you would accept we have to act?
1. We can.
2. Extremely debatable.
3. See 2.
4. Conceding a League high goals and barely scoring is not decent football.
The continuity argument is if Bilic is the right man you don't fire him. The narrative is that the club can't fund a competitive squad in the Premier League so this season is almost a free hit for the Head Coach. The club sticks with him to the point where results are so bad that they they undermine the psychology of the squad to such an extent that recovery in the following season in the Championship is at risk.
We have done this in the past Megson survived two relegations and Robson one. It is quite likely Mowbray would have been given the season after relegation had he not gone to Celtic. It is only from Di-Matteo onwards that we got trigger happy.
I am not sure we are better for it however the rule of thumb now seems to be extended period under 1 point a game and the knives are out. I am not saying this is of it's self is wrong and Albion are far from unique in this approach. However if you want to build for the longer term at some point you have to take an extended downturn of form and not sack the coach.
All that said I might not be completely convinced that Bilic is the coach I want to back long term (long term is not in his nature almost as much as it is not in ours) and there is the issue of the contract which expires next summer. We could invest the season in him and he can walk away which is a reason why I like one year rolling contracts for managers.
I am not in the Bilic out camp but nor am I in give the man the money camp either. It is a tough call for someone who would very much like to see us retain a Head Coach who will give us a clear tactical identity. It all hinges on who the replacement is and is that someone I can look at for the longer term continuity and development? If they aren't then frankly we might as well let this season bleed out under Bilic and revaluate in the summer.
Although an interesting question KN22, it’s Luke Dowling and the WBA board who are responsible for what our club should do next, not me. But I’ll try and answer your question as best as I can.
In between the Darren Moore sacking and interim of Jimmy Shan, my personal choice of manager to get us out the Championship was Slaviša Jokanović. I did hear we approached him as Luke Dowling had previously worked with at Watford, but in true WBA style we balked at his wages. I like his possession-based attacking style of football and felt it would have been a good match for us. Especially in terms of our traditional way of playing football. Slaviša Jokanović also has two promotions from the English Championship with Watford and Fulham respectively on his CV.
Now, I know what you’re thinking. Bilić has more experience in the Premier League than this guy. You’d be right, Bilić had a successful first season with West Ham before being given the boot the following season. Whereas Jokanović was given his marching orders early in his first season managing in the Premier League. In fairness to Jokanovic though, the Fulham chairman wasted about £150million buying in players that probably weren’t the right fit and in doing so broke up the promotion-winning team and its spirit. We know how that ended up.
Of course, I appreciate we could be in the exact same position now had the Albion appointed Slaviša Jokanović, or even worse for that matter. But as a club what we should be doing better is forward planning. Identifying those progressive coaches who may be a very good fit and keeping them on our radar. At the end of the day, the longevity of managers/coaches at our club averages about a year and I don’t believe that culture will change. We need to be better prepared though, which we’re not at this present time.
So to answer your question, what do I think the club should do..my answer is be better prepared in terms of our forward planning. Not dismissing managers/coaches without a clear plan B and C in place. Whether you want to accept this or not, at the moment we’re one of 20 teams in arguably the greatest football league in the world. That in itself should be an exciting enough prospect to be able to attract progressive managers/coaches that fit our ethos instead of the usual merry-go-rounders. We have a team that are capable of staying up, certainly better quality than the 2010/2011 squad.
To me, I feel we’re stuck with Bilić at the moment because in reality the board don’t have an adequate back-up plan in place yet. If myself and others can see we’ve been poor under Bilić for almost a year now, you can bet the board know it too. What I don’t think they know is what to do about it. This is a cause for concern.
.......In between the Darren Moore sacking and interim of Jimmy Shan, my personal choice of manager to get us out the Championship was Slaviša Jokanović. I did hear we approached him as Luke Dowling had previously worked with at Watford, but in true WBA style we balked at his wages........
Has anyone who thinks Bilic is the right man, said how long they would give him without a win before you would accept we have to act?
Back at the time I read that we'd been in talks with him too. However, I also remember reading that following initial talks we weren't too far apart wages wise. The problem was that once we sacked Darren Moore and re opened talks he upped his demands by a third which by anyone's marker would be a not insignificant amount.
Disclaimer alert for the benefit of Balis and other forum users. I am not claiming to be ITK or this to be a fact. I'm just relaying that I read it somewhere. I have no link to paste and I have no idea whether this notion was floated online by Mr Swain or any other employee, former employee or board member of West Bromwich Albion.
Thought provoking as always Stan. As a point of clarity however Megson only survived one relegation. The powers that be have to make up their minds that is for sure.
You seem a lot more generous towards Jokanovic than your are Bilic weirdly. Not sure why you think a "possession-based attacking style of football" would suit us - it needs to suit the players else you're not going to get results. And if we balked at his wage demands when in the Championship, what do you think his wage demands would now be like?
Another way of looking at Jokanovic is that he can get a team out of the Championship but cannot make the step up despite having a huge transfer budget at his fingertips, that he basically ends up wasting. It's a no from me Clive.
What I was explaining to KN22 is that Jokanović was my preferred choice, not Bilić. That boat sailed long ago after the job was given to Slaven in the summer of 2019.How do you know that they don't? Perhaps they are just not planning a change in management at the present time. No need for a contingency plan at this stage of the season.
The answer to KN22’s original question in terms of what should the club do next is to have clearer contingency plans in place in the event of a change in management.
Thanks for responding. I too was keen for us to appoint Jokanovic but who is to say he would have done any better? Bilic achieved promotion in one season yet now we are struggling for lots of reasons. He is not faultless of course not but I still look at the fact that he did want to sign a better keeper and did want to sign a better CH as evidence that he is not stupid either.
How do you know that they don't? Perhaps they are just not planning a change in management at the present time. No need for a contingency plan at this stage of the season.
Bilić has had no public backing from the WBA hierarchy this season as far as I’m aware. The only thing that’s played out publicly is the spat between Bilić and the board.There has been no reason for the board to come out publicly and support Bilic at this stage of the season. The board don't say anything publicly about anything, but that's another discussion. In any case, even if they were so disposed, it's far too early. I'm sure that there have been discussions about various things behind the scenes, and the fact that he is still in a job says to me that the board haven't yet reached the point where they have totally lost faith in him.
There has been no reason for the board to come out publicly and support Bilic at this stage of the season. The board don't say anything publicly about anything, but that's another discussion. In any case, even if they were so disposed, it's far too early. I'm sure that there have been discussions about various things behind the scenes, and the fact that he is still in a job says to me that the board haven't yet reached the point where they have totally lost faith in him.
1> So we have funds sloshing around? News to me
2. Yes its a debate who would you suggest is better than Bilic and available atm?
3. See 2 -How does this address the point of current reputation for sacking managers deterring prospective candidates?
4. Didn't say decent said "not negative"
There has been no reason for the board to come out publicly and support Bilic at this stage of the season. The board don't say anything publicly about anything, but that's another discussion. In any case, even if they were so disposed, it's far too early. I'm sure that there have been discussions about various things behind the scenes, and the fact that he is still in a job says to me that the board haven't yet reached the point where they have totally lost faith in him.
Why would the board come out and publicly support a manager who has 8 wins in 29 league games during 2020? Not to mention the numerous poor performances shown during those fixtures too.I answered this in the last sentence of my last post. You've been negative about Bilic pretty much from the first moment you started posting on this board. Not everyone agrees with you, including the board at this moment in time.
I answered this in the last sentence of my last post. You've been negative about Bilic pretty much from the first moment you started posting on this board. Not everyone agrees with you, including the board at this moment in time.
What’s my unwavering criticism towards Slaven Bilić got to do with this timdon? I really don’t mind whether you agree with me or not, Bilić’s poor record speaks for itself.
There has been no reason for the board to come out publicly and support Bilic at this stage of the season. The board don't say anything publicly about anything, but that's another discussion. In any case, even if they were so disposed, it's far too early. I'm sure that there have been discussions about various things behind the scenes, and the fact that he is still in a job says to me that the board haven't yet reached the point where they have totally lost faith in him.As a matter of interest, who exactly are the decision makers when it comes to extending a manager's contract, new appointments etc? With all due respect, Lai and Ken do not strike me as people with in depth knowledge of the game or even the football industry in this country. So do they rely entirely on Dowling's advice when it comes to making football decisions?
As a matter of interest, who exactly are the decision makers when it comes to extending a manager's contract, new appointments etc? With all due respect, Lai and Ken do not strike me as people with in depth knowledge of the game or even the football industry in this country. So do they rely entirely on Dowling's advice when it comes to making football decisions?Who knows the exact inner workings of the club, but Dowling will be very influential for sure.
Obviously, anybody can read a set of results and a league table, but there's more to consider than that. I can read up on results from equestrian show jumping tournaments, but I wouldn't have a clue about making any decisions for the sport.
It’s coming across to me that your agenda is anti-Bilic first and foremost, it feels that it’s more important to you than the long term good of the club, now if that’s because you are banging this particular drum so loudly because you are primarily motivated by the clubs success it would be good to hear that!It comes across to me that way too. The criticism of Bilic dates back to the early part of the year and has continued consistently ever since.
It comes across to me that way too. The criticism of Bilic dates back to the early part of the year and has continued consistently ever since.It comes across to me that we need another game to focus on.
As a matter of interest, who exactly are the decision makers when it comes to extending a manager's contract, new appointments etc? With all due respect, Lai and Ken do not strike me as people with in depth knowledge of the game or even the football industry in this country. So do they rely entirely on Dowling's advice when it comes to making football decisions?
Obviously, anybody can read a set of results and a league table, but there's more to consider than that. I can read up on results from equestrian show jumping tournaments, but I wouldn't have a clue about making any decisions for the sport.
IMO the overriding factor is financial.
Staying in the EPL will guarantee another £100 million of income, how we get there is irrelevant to the owners.
IMO the overriding factor is financial.
Staying in the EPL will guarantee another £100 million of income, how we get there is irrelevant to the owners.
Who knows the exact inner workings of the club, but Dowling will be very influential for sure.
Re the bit in bold, apparently there isn't as far as some are concerned.
albionic and timdon, see above post.So, without naming names (which would be against forum rules), where would you expect a "better" (and realistic) manager to finish with this squad in this league?
That’s what motivates me. The long-term financial stability of our club and most importantly, Yunyi Guokai (Shanghai) Sports Development Limited being able to sell our club to what I hope is a more hands-on and interested owner. Remaining in the Premier League for the foreseeable future is the only way that can possibly happen.
If I had confidence in Slaven Bilić’s ability to keep us up this season, I wouldn’t be so critical. But I don’t have that sort of faith in him and that became clear to me whilst we were still in the Championship.
I dont rate Bilic, but it’s certainly not based just on paper results. In fact, I’d suggest those who rate Bilic are heavily influenced by paper results (over a year ago) our promotion and Bilics media personality rather than looking at Bilics actual ability and considering how we actually got promoted.Same question to you
I’d support the manager with us going down, and being last if we were getting the more from our squad because I know we have huge limitations as a club. However I do expect us to be trying to do the right things and apply ourselves as best we can, but we aren’t.
We don’t have a clear tactical plan
We don’t look fit at times
We aren’t well organised or drilled
Our shape defensively is horrific.
There were games in the championship we were toothless and all the above applied then too, so it’s not just against Better opposition.
On top of this, Bilic seems to be trying to excuse all of this by questioning investment, and getting in to public spats with the board, but we aren’t sitting on piles of cash and his job is to do the best we can with what we
So, without naming names (which would be against forum rules), where would you expect a "better" (and realistic) manager to finish with this squad in this league?
I think a decent manager could have us in the fight for 17th.So, one place above where we are now !! In fact, you could argue that we ARE in the fight for 17th as things stand.
We may not achieve it, there’s a huge difference to me in being in the mix come April and still going down, and just going down without a fight which is how I see it going with Bilic.
So, one place above where we are now !! In fact, you could argue that we ARE in the fight for 17th as things stand.
Before a game was played you could argue we were in the fight for the title too. Doesn't mean the argument has merit. It is probably not possible to be too far adrift after 8 games so that I think that is a weak positon youve taken.You make a statement like that and then suggest I'm taking a weak position haha.
The fact is our form and performances over 11 months (and 8 games) suggests we will fall under by a distance, not that we will be fighting valiantly to keep our head above water.
Hodgson would finish in the top 12/14 with this squad.If anyone could, Hodgson probably could, but there ain't many of him out there and available. But it is just speculation, and you perennially over estimate the strength of our squad, so more likely he would get us to 16th or 17th. On the other hand, Pardew or Irvine...............
Hodgson would finish in the top 12/14 with this squad.
As has been pointed out many times, he was sacked at West Ham because he just didn't seem to be able to develop things after a good start; he never "lost the dressing room", stayed popular in the stands, but results were just drifting away, as they have been with us. I hope he can find a way to turn things round, but it doesn't look like it does it?Pick players on form, address the formation all issues.....if he did that not only would we have a better chance, I think he gets more respect.
You make a statement like that and then suggest I'm taking a weak position haha.
Look, from before the start of this season I argued that if Bilic could keep us up it would be a fantastic achievement and that is still my position. Maybe our different perspective is more to do with how strong our squad is as much as how good a manager Bilic is. I think our squad is certainly one of the weakest 3 in the division and I expect us to go down for that reason, whereas you clearly see the potential for doing better. Fair enough, it's just a difference of perspective. However, whatever the rights and wrongs, I strongly believe that sacking the manager who gained us promotion (yes, I know, we barely scraped over the line and all that) last season, after giving him only 8 games of the new campaign would be unjust. It's too soon to make that call.
If anyone could, Hodgson probably could, but there ain't many of him out there and available. But it is just speculation, and you perennially over estimate the strength of our squad, so more likely he would get us to 16th or 17th. On the other hand, Pardew or Irvine...............
However yes, perspective is everything. We both agree our squad is in the weakest three but for me it should compete. It is yet to be seen if we will. The two home games coming up after united will give be telling. Maybe we will get 6 points and things will look a lot better.
My comment was an exaggerated / tongue in cheek one made for emphasis in response to yours. I don’t know what else to say if you think I meant it.Haha, no I realised that your comment wasn't serious, otherwise I'd be sending round the men in white coats. My comment was also tongue in cheek, in response to yours. ;)
However yes, perspective is everything. We both agree our squad is in the weakest three but for me it should compete. It is yet to be seen if we will. The two home games coming up after united will give be telling. Maybe we will get 6 points and things will look a lot better.
Look at our squad in the 2017/2018 season timdon. Most expensive squad ever assembled in the clubs history and on paper we looked very strong indeed.Yes indeed..............but we had Pardew for most of that season. I remember it well, which perhaps explains my reluctance to pile in against Bilic this early. I still carry the scars.
Finished off bottom of the league and relegated.
Good post. I would argue that our squad, the outfield players anyway have already competed and but for the keeper we would be on 6 points be 17th in the table.
The frustrating part of this season is that we are a goalkeeper, left back and defensive midfielder away from having a decent squad at this level. Had for arguments sake the board spent another £13.5m on Grbić (£4m), Antonee Robinson (£1.5m) and a Harrison Reed (£8m) type then we'd be well set-up to compete with our rivals, whereas we didn't do that and will lose £100m odd of income on relegation? The false economics of not pushing the boat out a little more was pointed out by Bilic and the board declined his advice in favour of their safety first model. It's madness when you consider that in the event we did get relegated we could have sold any of those players or the one's we have signed if we needed money in that badly. It's incredibly short sighted from the board so you can hardly blame Bilic for point out that he had been shafted.
Longer term the challenge isn't in avoiding relegation but making sure have a good chance of getting promoted again at the start of next season. With that in mind we should be looking to keep the squad together and improve it once we can get the dead wood players on big wages off our books (Zohore, Austin, Gibbs, Phillips, Livermore, etc) and replaced with better quality and younger, quicker players.
Shorter term we need to keep our fingers crossed that we can beat Sheff Utd, just to give the fans some hope and cheer - although I'm sceptical, as we are just as likely to lose any such game.
What a thoroughly depressing read this thread has become.
Yes indeed..............but we had Pardew for most of that season. I remember it well, which perhaps explains my reluctance to pile in against Bilic this early. I still carry the scars.
What a thoroughly depressing read this thread has become.
What a thoroughly depressing read this thread has become.The whole forum is depressing at the moment ....................need a win badly.
Yes indeed..............but we had Pardew for most of that season. I remember it well, which perhaps explains my reluctance to pile in against Bilic this early. I still carry the scars.
The thing that concerns me is the inconsistency in how switched on and energetic we are in games. This was evident last season when in two spells of the season we looked far too good for the Championship and then a lot of the rest of the time we were lethargic and toothless.good points overall but think your marks are slightly high there, has the Donald been in your ear.
This season it's a completely different level but it's a similar sort of picture. For sheer energy and being 'at it' I'd mark our displays as
Leicester 6
Everton 7 (man sent off impacted result)
Chelsea 8
Southampton 5
Burnley 6
Brighton 6
Fulham 4
Spurs 8
There's a bit of a pattern with not performing against the so say weaker teams. Last year it was Barnsley, Wigan, Charlton...this year it's Southampton (we started their run) and Fulham.
There's a lethargy that is never far away. Is it the manager, is it the players or a bit of both ?
good points overall but think your marks are slightly high there, has the Donald been in your ear.Unsettling thought that :D Yes maybe I was being a touch generous.
I hope this result doesn't disguise what was another very encouraging performance. There will be those who, no doubt, will say once again we failed to pick up points, but clearly we were beaten this time by the referee coupled with who the opposition happened to be. Last week v Spurs we put in another decent performance, but were beaten by one defensive error. I genuinely don't think there are many other managers who could have got more out of this team. You'd hope that decision makers at the club can put these results into that context.
Eventhough the last 2 games weve lost, our peformances have been alot better. Players are definitely playing for him.
My 15 year old had a good question, if we lose our next 1/2 but we play ok, then what happens? Stick with him or no?
When we lost against Fulham i was sure he was a gonner, but 2 games later, we look better and look like we can compete.
Eventhough the last 2 games weve lost, our peformances have been alot better. Players are definitely playing for him.Ultimately the board will look at the wins/points column.
My 15 year old had a good question, if we lose our next 1/2 but we play ok, then what happens? Stick with him or no?
When we lost against Fulham i was sure he was a gonner, but 2 games later, we look better and look like we can compete.
The last two games have saved Bilic's job for me. There has been enough from these games to suggest that he has come to terms with what we need to do.
However the next three games are absolutely critical for him IMO. He NEEDS a win desperately. The board's patience is not going to last forever while we are winless, it's just a question of how long.
If after 10.games we have a misely 3 points then questions need to be asked. Last two games player's did well but where is our cutting edge? Pereira and Diangana need to start showing up or dropped.
Nothing personal but drop Diangana and Pereira? Are you for real,
Why not? They cant play on reputation alone. We can play with Grant and Robinson as a front two for a start and play more into channels. We dont have to play Pereira and Diangana in order to succeed.
You mean ditch the possession based game and play long ball into the channels? That's what we did under Pulis! If you can't see we are better off with Diangana and Pereira then you are mad, how are we going to retain the ball?On paper you are correct but we need players in form which Grady certainly isn't . I'm hoping they both will hit top gear asap but as a unit we can't be picking out of form players too long .
Sheff Utd next and if we play like you suggest then it'll be right into their hands, remember the 0-1 under Moore? You beat SU with skill and out-passing them.
You mean ditch the possession based game and play long ball into the channels? That's what we did under Pulis! If you can't see we are better off with Diangana and Pereira then you are mad, how are we going to retain the ball?
Sheff Utd next and if we play like you suggest then it'll be right into their hands, remember the 0-1 under Moore? You beat SU with skill and out-passing them.
Nothing personal but drop Diangana and Pereira? Are you for real, maybe we can put Field and Harper in and be even more toothless? Fact is it's mighty hard playing in a struggling team as a creative force. Grant looks a below average striker at this level but is still an upgrade on HRK and Austin.Why not drop them? They are not exactly tearing up the prem
Bilic has made us tighter with the addition of 3 centre halves, I don't think Ajayi/Ivanovic/Bartley look secure enough in a defensive 2, so this is the way forward.
Nothing personal but drop Diangana and Pereira? Are you for real, maybe we can put Field and Harper in and be even more toothless? Fact is it's mighty hard playing in a struggling team as a creative force. Grant looks a below average striker at this level but is still an upgrade on HRK and Austin.do I really need to respond?
Bilic has made us tighter with the addition of 3 centre halves, I don't think Ajayi/Ivanovic/Bartley look secure enough in a defensive 2, so this is the way forward.
do I really need to respond?
We have the weakest squad in the league and yet still only a point off 17th. The last couple of performances have been much better but we lack quality all over the pitch for this level.
Just need a consistent GK, Left back and CDM!
Bit unfair on Townsend who I think has improved game on game. Even Hoddle last night gave him praise. He was not my idea of a left back for the Prem but has got better.
I must admit, i am surprised Bilic has the backing he does. This is not me demanding his head by the way, i am just surprised given the stats and some very concerning performances so far this season, he still seems to have the support from the fans on the main.For some it’s not because he’s Bilic, it’s not what he has done....it’s the fact he isn’t Pullis or Pardew.
I keep hearing how we are now more organised but lets face it, we have done so by sticking pretty much the whole team behind the ball and hoping we can nick something with some magic from either Pereira or Diangana who at the minute dont seem capable of doing that.
That is now 1 goal in 6 games. We can work hard and defend for our lives every game but there has to be a balance. I appreciate we have played Utd and Spurs. I appreciate Bilic has not been fully backed in the market but things have to improve and fast.
After next weekend, we would have played the 4 teams around us. At what point do you make a decision? Despite 2 committed performances, I cant help but feel we just dont look capable of winning a football match.
Anything other than a win next weekend and I dont see how you could argue with the board if they made the decision to part ways.
For some it’s not because he’s Bilic, it’s not what he has done....it’s the fact he isn’t Pullis or Pardew.The names and irrelevance it’s having a younger more dynamic attacking team wanting to perform hopefully some results will come too, that would be the icing on the cake for me.
Why not? They cant play on reputation alone. We can play with Grant and Robinson as a front two for a start and play more into channels. We dont have to play Pereira and Diangana in order to succeed.I thought Pereira had a good game v MU. Got on the ball alot in midfield and picked some good passes. I agree that he is wasted playing on the wing, but although on paper that's where he's down as playing, he was popping up all over the pitch. The commentator praised him as well. Maybe because he's not new, fans forget to notice the difference he makes.
The usual poster who insistently calls for Bilic to be sacked is nowhere to be seen. Should tell you all you need to know. The players and staff can be proud of their performance this evening. They could not have done much more.I'm more bothered that the decision makers at the club see what sort of performances we are putting in. That's why I posed the question some time back, who are the people who would ultimately make any decision on Billic's future. My concern is that if its just those in China, they are more likely to just take the results and league table at face value without seeing what else is happening.
I don't agree - how are we inferior to Burnley and Sheff U?
We play better football than both who have Dinosaur managers. I'm all for being realistic but let's not talk ourselves down too much!
We have improved every game this season-barring Fulham, but we desperately need a win from somewhere before someone else wins a couple of games. Beating Sheffield has got to be the game we win.
I firmly believe we need to keep Bilic to be successful. We should offer him an extended contract and regardless of what happens this season, for a change we should stick with the manager and see where we get to. Look at Norwich - did exactly what we did and got promoted ahead of time. They didnt stay up, granted, but they stuck with the manager and now building some form.
I dont think we are down by a long shot, there are some awful teams at the bottom with us and if we can just get some decent points from the next three then we are well in with a shout of staying up. And if we do that, with this squad and the amount of money spent, then Bilic will have done an outstanding job.
I must admit, i am surprised Bilic has the backing he does. This is not me demanding his head by the way, i am just surprised given the stats and some very concerning performances so far this season, he still seems to have the support from the fans on the main.
I keep hearing how we are now more organised but lets face it, we have done so by sticking pretty much the whole team behind the ball and hoping we can nick something with some magic from either Pereira or Diangana who at the minute dont seem capable of doing that.
That is now 1 goal in 6 games. We can work hard and defend for our lives every game but there has to be a balance. I appreciate we have played Utd and Spurs. I appreciate Bilic has not been fully backed in the market but things have to improve and fast.
After next weekend, we would have played the 4 teams around us. At what point do you make a decision? Despite 2 committed performances, I cant help but feel we just dont look capable of winning a football match.
Anything other than a win next weekend and I dont see how you could argue with the board if they made the decision to part ways.
Even if we lose to the Blades next weekend Jharmz some of our Bilić disciples on here would reward their Croat messiah with a new bumper contract! 😁And your point is what exactly? We are a work in progress and most of us understand that. I can certainly see a lot of progress since Bilic became manager, in terms of personnel, in terms of style of play, and in terms of bringing down the average age of the woefully aging and stale squad he inherited. And yes, he is still a breath of fresh air compared to Pulis and Pardew. It is those who believe that there is some wonderful unemployed manager out there who can come in with a magic wand and transform us overnight who are deluded
And your point is what exactly? We are a work in progress and most of us understand that. I can certainly see a lot of progress since Bilic became manager, in terms of personnel, in terms of style of play, and in terms of bringing down the average age of the woefully aging and stale squad he inherited. And yes, he is still a breath of fresh air compared to Pulis and Pardew. It is those who believe that there is some wonderful unemployed manager out there who can come in with a magic wand and transform us overnight who are deluded
I was just flicking through Understat.clm and noticed a couple of things:
We are yet to outscore an opponent on xG, a measure of how many goals you'd expect given the quantity and quality of chances. The closest we came was 0.3 Vs Brighton's 0.55. To me this suggests we aren't creating gilt-edged chances.
The other thing which concerns me is that over all our league games, our xG is 4.49, i.e. it should be expected that we should have scored 4.49 goals. We've scored 6. There's a couple of ways to look at this, but to me it suggests Bilic hasn't found a system to generate regular, high percentage chances, and we've relied on variance (or luck) to score the number of goals we have. The rest of the bottom for are underperforming their xG, and given these things tend to regress towards the mean, it concerns me we haven't been able to address our lack of high success chance creation.
XG is a pretty meaningless metric though. What would our xG have been if we had been given the penalty we should’ve had?
XG is meaningless? I'll go tell all the professional clubs using it...
A penalty is worth 0.76 xG so 1.2 for the game. But we didn't get the pen.
If Man Utd hadn't had theirs, their xG would have been above one still, indicating they ought to have still beaten us.
Thank you, Baggies.
I'm not Bilic Out, but not am I happy with how things are going. Our last two performances have supposed to be much better in terms of application, but our combined xG is only 1.24, yet our opponents have garnered 4.3. Sam Johnstone has played very well to limit the number of goals we have conceded, but the fact remains, based on the quantity and quality of chances in those games, we should have lost on aggregate by about 4-1, not 2-0.
Our xG is woeful on a game by game basis:
Leicester - 0.35
Everton - 0.32
Chelsea - 0.91
Southampton - 0.16 (Christ that is bad)
Burnley - 0.73
Brighton - 0.30
Fulham - 0.48
Spurs - 0.8
Manchester United - 0.44
There's no real upward trend, there's little to suggest we have a player who should be performing better than they are (in terms of chance creation or conversion). Kyle Bartley has our second highest xG behind Karlan Grant. That kind of tells you how poor things have been up front. And Bilic needs to see this and change something
This whole xG thing is symptomatic of when Match of the Day started drawing Venn diagrams all over videos of match highlights.I agree its all cobblers, the game is played on the pitch not in some virtual reality world, I wish it was still 1973 as ELO once sang.
We've stopped bloody enjoying the game, getting all this ANALysis stuff out to the extreme.
What do I know, I'm an old git.
What I DO know is this thread is titled Slaven Bilic, not xG.
Folk can moan about the XG statistic as much as they want
It highlights glaring deficiencies Within this side.
The change of formation deployed by Bilic has not made us more likely to score - we need to get more from Pereira and Diangana in forward areas.
I tend to be a fan of stats, I believe they are very useful as a tool to measure the success or otherwise of tactics and strategies.
What I would query at this stage of the season is their relevance after 9 games.
What I would find useful, is a chart, showing a rolling xg (both scored & conceded), showing improvement or regression.
Average xg is just a snapshot.
Maybe this is a good time to start a thread entitled XG.
I think XG is relevant to Bilic personally.
As has been mentioned, it has shown in the past to be quite a good indicator. I believe at points last October / November when we were racking up points it suggested we were getting more than we perhaps deserved.
So XG has merit in this Bilic debate, particularly as the big defence of him seems to be how we did in the four month period Aug - Dec 19.
Many won’t like it because it’s supports those who question Bilic though.
However you want to frame the argument be that based on stats, results, or evidence of your eyes. Bilic is in the zone where typically Head Coaches are fired. The discussion is on going and we now move onto the next crunch point i.e. this coming weekend's game against Sheffield United.
With the best will in the world and I am biased toward the continuity argument, if we are in a race to be least bad of the current bottom 4 losing 2 out of 3 fixtures against those teams is to put it mildly is not a good look.
But we have surely spent the least amount of money of any Premier league club. So how do you quantify this? Wilder has spent £25m on Brewster and he paid big money for Berge. We've been vastly out spent by Leeds and Fulham. Smith jammily kept Villa up in 17th after spending £140m.has been our problem throughout our stay in prem no tangible investment to speak of. If you don't speculate you won't accumulate, here's a stat for you £18 million is our record outlay but more importantly £16.5 million is what club received for Rondon our record transfer incoming.
Whichever way you look at it Lai has let us down and similarly Peace who sold the club to him.
We are like a "Metro on a Grand Prix Circuit" as Oldham manager Joe Royle said famously in 1992.
Sick of us bring the financial poor relations.
has been our problem throughout our stay in prem no tangible investment to speak of. If you don't speculate you won't accumulate, here's a stat for you £18 million is our record outlay but more importantly £16.5 million is what club received for Rondon our record transfer incoming.
Just think how much money we would have made had pushed the boat out and signed Lukaku permanently and then sold him onto Man Utd, rather than Peace moaning about agent fees and hoping to strike a last minute deal only to be gazumped by Everton. Pulis didn't help either as he only wanted to sign and play players who ageing and hence had limited a resale value. Much better under Bilic with Ajayi, Pereira, Dianganna etc, and we have been smart to get our best and youngest players tied down under five year deals. If we keep getting the recruitment right then over time we can establish ourselves in the PL. That's one of the big benefits of having a head coach in charge over a few summer transfer windows to build a squad, which can't be done in 18 months without limited budget.This, I hope, is the plan. It's a much better plan than if we don't beat Sheffield United we should sack the manager and start all over again. It's also why we should offer Bilic a new contract regardless of whether or not we get relegated this season
This, I hope, is the plan. It's a much better plan than if we don't beat Sheffield United we should sack the manager and start all over again. It's also why we should offer Bilic a new contract regardless of whether or not we get relegated this season
PS I'm assuming you meant to write "with our limited budget" ;)
This, I hope, is the plan. It's a much better plan than if we don't beat Sheffield United we should sack the manager and start all over again. It's also why we should offer Bilic a new contract regardless of whether or not we get relegated this season
PS I'm assuming you meant to write "with our limited budget" ;)
Absolutely the only way forward for me, If wed spent £140 million and was in this position then wed have an argument, we must move forward with Bilic and the younger players.
Its very painful at the moment but to bring in another Alan Pardew would take us back 3 years.
This, I hope, is the plan. It's a much better plan than if we don't beat Sheffield United we should sack the manager and start all over again. It's also why we should offer Bilic a new contract regardless of whether or not we get relegated this season
PS I'm assuming you meant to write "with our limited budget" ;)
We can offer Bilic a new contract whether he agrees it is another matter and the longer it goes where there is no new contract it will very quickly become the elephant in the room where as every week passes the scrutiny increases .
We can offer Bilic a new contract whether he agrees it is another matter and the longer it goes where there is no new contract it will very quickly become the elephant in the room where as every week passes the scrutiny increases .
I expect Bilic (and most managers) would accept. It’s a far more serious commitment from the club than from the manager.
Offering Bilic a new contract right now would be absolute stupidity.
It is not going to happen anyway there are senior figures inside the club that are far from convinced by Bilic. If we don't win one of the next three games (minimum) he will be gone.
You may well be right.... then what??
That's up to Lai primarily.
That's up to Lai primarily.
Leaving the decision to Lai would be sheer stupidity. I’d be trying to pin him down long term.
Genuine question Frazzle. Say we sign Bilić and his coaching staff up for another two seasons with improved pay, benefits, etc. but the results and performances are still the same as they’ve been since the beginning of the year...what do we as a club do then?Think we need to split out results and performances. I can take losing in this league, Saturday proved how corrupt it is and how difficult it is for teams like us to win games. The performances though have to be 100%. If we carry on like we have in the last 2 games then we will at least compete. Bilic also seems to have got his petulance about transfers out of his system and is focussed on football again. Albeit with the likes of Grosicki, Kipre and Button as collateral damage. I wouldn't be offering him a new deal based on 2 games, but he has definitely earned more time.
Think we need to split out results and performances. I can take losing in this league, Saturday proved how corrupt it is and how difficult it is for teams like us to win games. The performances though have to be 100%. If we carry on like we have in the last 2 games then we will at least compete. Bilic also seems to have got his petulance about transfers out of his system and is focussed on football again. Albeit with the likes of Grosicki, Kipre and Button as collateral damage. I wouldn't be offering him a new deal based on 2 games, but he has definitely earned more time.
We need to keep improving though and we need to start scoring.
I don’t mind losing when a good performance is put in either Set.I'd love to say I'm not bothered but I've been in this game long enough to know better! We need at least one win from the next 3. Then beat Villa and he'll see in the new year. Fail and he's gone by Christmas.
Okay, the performances to one side. How long is an acceptable length of time for Bilić and Co to pick up a win or two?
Genuine question Frazzle. Say we sign Bilić and his coaching staff up for another two seasons with improved pay, benefits, etc. but the results and performances are still the same as they’ve been since the beginning of the year...what do we as a club do then?Do you expect a serious answer to that question? You talk about things as if changing the manager would automatically bring improvement, which of course it wouldn't. Let me ask you this. Which Albion managers in your lifetime would you rather have? And why?
Do you expect a serious answer to that question? You talk about things as if changing the manager would automatically bring improvement, which of course it wouldn't. Let me ask you this. Which Albion managers in your lifetime would you rather have? And why?
Leaving the decision to Lai would be sheer stupidity. I’d be trying to pin him down long term.
Do you expect a serious answer to that question? You talk about things as if changing the manager would automatically bring improvement, which of course it wouldn't. Let me ask you this. Which Albion managers in your lifetime would you rather have? And why?
I didn’t direct the question at you, Timdon. I asked Frazzle.
I didn’t direct the question at you, Timdon. I asked Frazzle.I can only apologise for interrupting your little tete a tete.
Roy & Won Atkinson for startersHaha, yeah for sure, but on the flip side i would put forward Brian Talbot, Bobby Gould, Keith Burkinshaw, Alan Buckley, Denis Smith, Brian Little, Bryan Robson, Alan Pardew, and Alan Irvine. It brings a shiver just thinking about a few of those.
Haha, yeah for sure, but on the flip side i would put forward Brian Talbot, Bobby Gould, Keith Burkinshaw, Alan Buckley, Denis Smith, Brian Little, Bryan Robson, Alan Pardew, and Alan Irvine. It brings a shiver just thinking about a few of those.I was a RDM fan as well until the Ipswich away cup game, some of the footy under Wobby was bwilliant
I can only apologise for interrupting your little tete a tete.
My question though was directed to you.
Where we going with this, Timdon?!I'll tell you once you answer the question ;)
If this your way of saying we’ve had more bad managers than good over the last 40 years, there’s plenty of fans from other English football clubs that will attest to the exact same thing.
I'll tell you once you answer the question ;)I think the question of how long Bilic supporters will accept no wins is far more relevant than comparing to past managers., but no one seems keen to answer that.
I think the question of how long Bilic supporters will accept no wins is far more relevant than comparing to past managers., but no one seems keen to answer that.
For what its worth there are very few that I would prefer other than Giles, Atkinson or Ardiles but it's not really a level playing field as we have rarely had the financial clout that we have now in my 40 years watching.
Ok, I'll take the bait,So another 7 games without a win and you would keep him provided we are in 9 points of 17th. Fair play that is very clear and concise and I can see the logic. Personally don't think any manager can survive a winless run of that magnitude though.
If performances drop off and at new year we are cut adrift (at least 6 points off 19th) then yes, I would understand if we got shut, personally I wouldn't but I could understand why), if we are in contention with 17th (within 9 points) then keep the status quo.
(likely result will be down, down, dee derum down)
Ok, I'll take the bait,Not a million miles from my thinking, as long as I can see the team continue to put in the effort for him
If performances drop off and at new year we are cut adrift (at least 6 points off 19th) then yes, I would understand if we got shut, personally I wouldn't but I could understand why), if we are in contention with 17th (within 9 points) then keep the status quo.
(likely result will be down, down, dee derum down)
So another 7 games without a win and you would keep him provided we are in 9 points of 17th. Fair play that is very clear and concise and I can see the logic. Personally don't think any manager can survive a winless run of that magnitude though.
So another 7 games without a win and you would keep him provided we are in 9 points of 17th. Fair play that is very clear and concise and I can see the logic. Personally don't think any manager can survive a winless run of that magnitude though.Its too simplistic just putting a number of defeats on it. A big indicator is if the players are still putting in the effort and playing for him. Once you hear stories of open criticism in the dressing room its the beginning of the end. There's no evidence for any of that at the moment. But decision makers (whoever they may be ) also have to consider the availability of any successor.
So another 7 games without a win and you would keep him provided we are in 9 points of 17th. Fair play that is very clear and concise and I can see the logic. Personally don't think any manager can survive a winless run of that magnitude though.
I clearly did not say "another 7 games without a win" I would not expect that to be case at all and in the circumstance YOU suggest I would see that the pressure would be huge.I'm not disagreeing with YOU ;)
My position is clear stick with the manager unless we are a) not performing AND b) cut adrift.
I can see no circumstance where chopping and changing AGAIN benefits the club for the medium / long term. There is more being achieved than points on the board, let the process continue.
I'm not disagreeing with YOU ;)
I have said many times that I care more about performances than results, in this god awful league, and want Bilic to succeed. I did, therefore, question him when he was having his petulant rants about the board and it reflected on the pitch. It's no coincidence, for me, that since all that nonsense stopped, we have seen a welcome upturn in performance levels. If that continues, I am happy to see him stay long term but it just won't happen without wins and points unfortunately. Sadly fans value performance far more than the money men do.
Where we going with this, Timdon?!
If this your way of saying we’ve had more bad managers than good over the last 40 years, there’s plenty of fans from other English football clubs that will attest to the exact same thing.
I can see no circumstance where chopping and changing AGAIN benefits the club for the medium / long term. There is more being achieved than points on the board, let the process continue.
Absolute common sense, especially given present day circumstances. Bilic is not a bad manager/head coach, whatever.Another very sensible post to add to the increasing number of sensible posts in recent days.
The team is still an underfunded work in progress but progress is being made. I do not agree with some of team selections, players not included etc but Bilic is the guy in charge, he sees the detail and the bigger picture day to day. Just leave it all alone for a while.
The worst that can happen is relegation from a corrupt league to a slightly less corrupt league, and the loss of money that goes with it. It might happen anyway even if we get another head coach. Give this one time see what happens. Continuity is what builds success
I sense the hysterical jackals snapping at Bilic’s heels have somewhat subsided.Very poetic, almost Shakespearian in its imagery. ;D
Gone to earth waiting waiting with dripping bloodied teeth, only to arise should the blades taste first blood come Saturday!? :o
Very poetic, almost Shakespearian in its imagery. ;D
they (blades) won't need to draw blood, the team selection will be sufficient to promote apoplectic convulsions of galactic proportions, regardless of its composition.Good grief, what's happening to this board? Is it Slaven Bilic or Hamlet we're discussing?
My position is clear stick with the manager unless we are a) not performing AND b) cut adrift.
I can see no circumstance where chopping and changing AGAIN benefits the club for the medium / long term. There is more being achieved than points on the board, let the process continue.
Here is an off the wall idea, can we have a thread which can only be posted on by mods, who put all the removed posts there for posterity and general amusement PLEASE,
Genuine question Frazzle. Say we sign Bilić and his coaching staff up for another two seasons with improved pay, benefits, etc. but the results and performances are still the same as they’ve been since the beginning of the year...what do we as a club do then?
Here is an off the wall idea, can we have a thread which can only be posted on by mods, who put all the removed posts there for posterity and general amusement PLEASE,
They get deleted every so often (when it gets to 150 removed posts usually so about every 2 weeks or so) but it would make for some fantastic reading.
Maybe we could just have a thread where we remove the names of the poster and just put the comments so people can see some of the stuff we do remove.
Quite honestly I’d give him to the second or third month of next season regardless of which league we are in and take a view then.So would I, but he's out of contract at the end of the season so that would have to be sorted out. Maybe a one year rolling contract would be the way forward.
Brilliant idea, can we try it for a trial period, it would be fascinating,
thats a staggering number or are you being sarcastic?
Theres currently 111 going back to the 10th November to give you an idea of how many we delete
Jesus :o, i'm well behaved then in the scheme of things !
Where have you sent Jacko by the way ?
to look for Brunty's career!
So is Jacko off the books permanently then?
I think it is win or bust Slav tomorrow, I love his passion but he is a very limited manager. Granted he lost Hegazi after our only clean sheet, but the Brighton display was abject.
Re the Brighton display - we were well on top for the last 25 minutes and looked like we could have sneaked it. Southampton was far worse in terms of competing from the first whistle.
It's important that we show 100% energy and a bit of belief tomorrow which we've failed to do against the teams more at our level so far.
Our best performances have come without Livermore, if Bilic can realise that, it could just save him and us! Please Slaven go for it tomorrow and leave Jake out.
He's only missed the Man Utd game....he played 90 mins against Spurs.
I think his point was that once Livermore was subbed at Brighton we radically transformed and looked a million percent better, dominated them and scored, whereas prior with him on the pitch we were second best.
Maybe but the performance against Spurs was roundly applauded as our best performance of the season up to that point..so Livermore was part of the team that had put in the best performance.Man Utd was by far the best all round performance, Brighton 2nd half the best attacking.
Maybe but the performance against Spurs was roundly applauded as our best performance of the season up to that point..so Livermore was part of the team that had put in the best performance.
This thread is remarkably quiet. Well done Slav ;DPossibly people enjoying a bottle at home after a well earned victory, not sure it means that bilic is automatically absolved of any critic that was fair over the last few months.
Last season was last season. Top 2 for most of the season, others got there on the back of a string of wins but when it came down to it they couldn't do it and we did. PROMOTION
Prem: Leics, learning process, we were beaten well by a better team but individual errors gave them the advantage. Everton ok till Gibbs red, but ref issues as ever. Probably against Southampton could have been more competitive. Burnley ok good perf from Burnley gk. Just the 2 bad ones: Brighton & Fulham. 3 decent, Chelsea Spurs & Manu all shown improved performances, and we were robbed of points in 2 by poor decisions. So not really as bad as painted so far.
My post was an error re Brighton game as I meant Fulham. We could have won the Brighton game in the second half.
Happy for Slav, that was a long time coming. Just wish we could stretched the measly budget by another £5m to get Toney in too, but Austin staying didn't help I suppose.
MP played well as emergency LB, Billy Big bx game gibbs can't be bothered. Sooner he leaves the better.
My post was an error re Brighton game as I meant Fulham. We could have won the Brighton game in the second half.
Happy for Slav, that was a long time coming. Just wish we could stretched the measly budget by another £5m to get Toney in too, but Austin staying didn't help I suppose.
MP played well as emergency LB, Billy Big bx game gibbs can't be bothered. Sooner he leaves the better.
This thread is remarkably quiet. Well done Slav ;D
Bilic got away with it last night for me.
I know many will feel results are the only thing that matter (and that can in an individual game) but it’s rarely the case longer term. The performance wasn’t great, and we had the same deficiencies so it doesn’t bode well.
They had 22 shots, only 3 teams have had more in a game apparently. These weren’t 22 shots from distance either, some of these were really good chances.
If only differences in that game were Ramsdale finger tipped Gallagher shot around the post and they had put one of their chances away, that performance would be getting slaughtered.
I hope I’m wrong and we improve against palace with more confidence but I think we will go straight in to another long run without a win I’m afraid.
Bilic got away with it last night for me.
I know many will feel results are the only thing that matter (and that can be the case in individual games) but it’s rarely the case longer term. The performance wasn’t great, and we had the same deficiencies so it doesn’t bode well.
They had 22 shots, only 3 teams have had more in a game apparently. These weren’t 22 shots from distance either, some of these were really good chances.
If only differences in that game were Ramsdale finger tipped Gallagher shot around the post and they had put one of their chances away, that performance would be getting slaughtered.
I hope I’m wrong and we improve against palace with more confidence but I think we will go straight in to another long run without a win I’m afraid.
Bilic got away with it last night for me.But deserved something out of Spurs and Man U, so deserves a bit of a break
I know many will feel results are the only thing that matter (and that can be the case in individual games) but it’s rarely the case longer term. The performance wasn’t great, and we had the same deficiencies so it doesn’t bode well.
They had 22 shots, only 3 teams have had more in a game apparently. These weren’t 22 shots from distance either, some of these were really good chances.
If only differences in that game were Ramsdale finger tipped Gallagher shot around the post and they had put one of their chances away, that performance would be getting slaughtered.
I hope I’m wrong and we improve against palace with more confidence but I think we will go straight in to another long run without a win I’m afraid.
But deserved something out of Spurs and Man U, so deserves a bit of a break
They had 22 shots, only 3 teams have had more in a game apparently. These weren’t 22 shots from distance either, some of these were really good chances.
None of which went in.
We have three more points.
Next.
Fair enough, if that’s your criteria for assessing games. Doesn’t give you much scope when we lose though.
I'm not expecting many wins this season, so when we get one I'm getting my deck chair out.
If you view the Fulham performance as the nadir of the season Bilic had to get the team to improve on it. Had he not done so I think he would be done by now and probably couldn't have too many complaints.This is the right way of looking at it. We made the decision to stick with Bilic, but he had to improve. We have, so the decision is justified.
Performances have improved, he has settled on a shape and he has pretty much sacrificed Diangana to achieve it. Generally across the 3 games since Fulham we have looked good at least for an hour of each of the games and while results haven't quite matched the performances a 3 point haul is at least hitting the survival rate.
Ultimately we may still end being relegated but the last 3 games have shown enough to justify sticking with Bilic even if we are. Fulham was so bad that record low points totals started to loom large and regardless of the money spent that should never be acceptable because it is too damaging to the club. You could argue Derby County have never really recovered from that season. So it was critical for Bilic to be able to stop the rot and he has to a point.
We got lucky but after the last two games we deserved some luck.
Yes Sheffield should have scored but we also did have 16 attempts and a stupid amount of corners. It wasn't as one sided as some people are making out.
Saying this Bilic needs to get another win out of the next two games or I fear the worst
Oh, you are right, i'm not saying it was 1 sided. Sheff Utd were probably better overall but I should add that our own XG was apparently close to 2 goals which is probably our highest tally all season.
We looked more threatening going forward than at any time other than maybe that 2nd half at Brighton, but we do have issues that will still see us finish 20th unless they are solved and those who ppint that out shouldn't be criticised by those who see our role as fans as only being positive.
As Stan says though, these last 3 games, in difficult circumstances, Bilic has managed to pick the team up. He deserves credit for that.
Comical.
Let’s all demand he breaks the rules in place set out by the government in terms of COVID shall we ::)
If you don't know what's going on with him read the slav comments. He hasn't had covid since 20th October. The fact you think he isn't being picked because of a covid outbreak is the real joke here.
Bilic got away with it last night for me.
Yep, me too Johnny 👍🏻
Don’t get me wrong, I’m pleased we’ve actually won a game. Only took us 10 attempts in the end. HOO ******* RAY!
But wow, weren’t the footballing God’s smiling down on Slaven last night. Not exactly a win to silence the critics was it 🤨
Yep, me too Johnny 👍🏻Not sure what you want. Chances of us steamrollering any side is unlikely at this level, certainly right now as we try to re-establish ourselves. I'd take a few more wins like that. Great win in the circumstances, with the pressure that was on both sides.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m pleased we’ve actually won a game. Only took us 10 attempts in the end. HOO ******* RAY!
But wow, weren’t the footballing God’s smiling down on Slaven last night. Not exactly a win to silence the critics was it 🤨
I wasn't too happy when I saw the formation, as we shouldn't be playing against the bottom club at home with 5 defenders across the back. I always look to see wingers as wingbacks should only be supplements, not replacements for giving us width.
Its about attacking in numbers. Look at Man City, Liverpool etc., when they are attacking you see 8 or 9 of their players in camera shot around the penalty box. Not one striker and a couple of midfielders.
On a related reason, I think if there is one player Billic tries to guarentee a place, its Ivanovic. When Billic first made contact, I expect he said, look I want the defence to be built around you. Trouble is, Ivanovic is slow, so he needs extra help and maybe that's why we are playing 3 central defenders instead of 2.
The only reason we should be playing without wingers is if they are all off form. Maybe that was the reason and seeing as we won yesterday, now is not the time to criticise him.
Well I for one, am shocked, absolutely shocked, that you're still critical.
Not sure what you want. Chances of us steamrollering any side is unlikely at this level, certainly right now as we try to re-establish ourselves. I'd take a few more wins like that. Great win in the circumstances, with the pressure that was on both sides.
If we can play the Blades at home every week maybe we’d get a few more wins this season.
Last nights game was a much needed win for Bilic, if anything. A great win on the other hand would have seen us beat the team at the bottom of the league comfortably without hanging on by the skin of our teeth for large periods.
Well, I for one am shocked, absolutely shocked, that you think last night was anything but a very, very lucky win for us...A bit lucky maybe, but I think it is to easy to focus too much on the hairy last 20 mins, there were periods when we were very much on top.
We were more than a bit lucky last night.Do you mean this is one for the birds?Throstles, eagles and magpies.
Let’s see how our luck fares against the Eagles and Magpies.
I don't understand why Slaven keeps making these pre-determined subs around 65mins. Robson-Kanu offers virtually nothing. I think Edwards would be a better option than an over the hill Phillips.Or just leave a striker on?? Have we had a game where whoever started up front has actually completed 90 mins.
I think we almost need 5 in Defence and also 5 in Midfield!!! Bartley and Ivanovic are slow and need the assurance of a quick Ajayi. Despite Gallagher we are still too slow with either Sawyers or Livermore.
Concerned about Grant, he looks poor and lacks confidence. I would drop him and go with a False 9. It needs to be all hands on deck to protect the defence.
We are going in the right direction with the ratio of goals conceded per match coming down.
Do you mean this is one for the birds?Throstles, eagles and magpies.
Bilic made a strange decision at half time with introduction of Krovinovic for Diangana, when an extra defender would have been an obvious call. Thought we coped well after joke of a card till half time but his change gave us no outlet.
Bilic made a strange decision at half time with introduction of Krovinovic for Diangana, when an extra defender would have been an obvious call. Thought we coped well after joke of a card till half tim5e but his change gave us no outlet.We played the remainder of the first half with 10 men quite well , we offered a threat .
No problem with the sub at half time, however the reaction of the team after their second and third is disgusting. He’s got to go for me, played well against Man U and Spurs but sheff u game should have been a similar score line to today as well.
We don’t seem able to get up for the games against teams around us which is worrying. Our form in 2020 has been awful including in the championship.
Personally I understood the decision. It didn’t work. We already had a back 5 in effect and it was 1-1 so to add another defender would have been strange.can you explain it too me because I'm baffled with it? Hold what you have when down to ten frustrate opposition
How do you raise a team that are constantly getting done by poor refs, week in week out? The players gave a good account of themselves, playing against a superior team, in a superior league, and crooked officials. I still have a lot of time for Bilic.thought they gave up after second goal to be honest but weren't helped by coach with half time change.
can you explain it too me because I'm baffled with it? Hold what you have when down to ten frustrate opposition
I know a lot of people don't buy into analytics with their xG and xS and xP stats, but enough top sides are now buying into it so it must be on to something. According to these metrics, we are comfortably the worst performing side in the division. We have some good attacking players, but no defensive structure, concede far too many chances and don't have a cohesive attacking shape either.
We like Bilic's passion, he is a good talker and a decent motivator. He isn't a goof enough club football coach, not in the modern game. Our best hope of keeping this very limited side up is with a different manager.
How do you raise a team that are constantly getting done by poor refs, week in week out? The players gave a good account of themselves, playing against a superior team, in a superior league, and crooked officials. I still have a lot of time for Bilic.
I say stick with Bilic until the transfer window closes in January and see if he gets any backing from the chap in China. If he dont get the backing I can Bilic walking anyway.
Seems very unlikely. We good be as good as down come January as I don't see any more points picked up any time soon. And if you think he will get any more money to spend is very optimistic
If they have someone who they believe can do a better job than bilic then fair enough but pointless just sacking someone for the sake of it
It’s not a new head coach we need but better quality players.
It could be argued it wouldn’t improve with better quality players this is down to lack of organisation , fitness , and most importantly a lack of mental strength .
I ignore his personality I look at the evidence on the pitch and whilst I don’t have reservations about him as a person I do about his ability to coach .
It’s not a new head coach we need but better quality players.
No one will keep this squad up.
I agree, can’t say i want bilic sacked.no fight in this team and that comes from coach who sends out his players to do a job. 11 games in with a pathetic 6 point haul.
At the same time though even if the players aren’t anygood there is something wrong when they go out and put a performance like they did second half
I’d argue it would definitely improve with better quality players.
This has to be one of the worst squads in premier league history.
Our best player is on loan.
Bilic gets by as a likeable person but as a manager it seems once something goes wrong or against him he cannot handle it. I can't believe he's still here, his record is abysmal and his tactics baffling. Seems he is here most liklely because we cant afford to sack him due to our amazing owner.Another poor show at Newcastle and i think that will be his lot , likeable person as you say but his record is poor.
Another poor show at Newcastle and i think that will be his lot , likeable person as you say but his record is poor.
I cannot see them sacking him. Who is available that is cheap?I agree theres not a lot out there but we can't go on like that , his record over 12 months is poor.
You have to have some sympathy for him today. There's not alot he can do about disfunctional refs and the VAR system which gave us a massive disadvantage. Palace came at us in numbers after the break and it was just a matter of time before they made their advantage count. Having lost our most creative player, the obvious replacement was Krov. My only criticism is that he should have replaced Grant earlier with Robinson. I thought the players were too cautious after we went behind. We never got numbers forward to threaten the Palace goal.
Bilic gets by as a likeable person but as a manager it seems once something goes wrong or against him he cannot handle it. I can't believe he's still here, his record is abysmal and his tactics baffling. Seems he is here most liklely because we cant afford to sack him due to our amazing owner.
Bowyer ::)Now that would be planning for the Championship, and if that is the intention there are better options , but we are not allowed to mention them.
Now that would be planning for the Championship, and if that is the intention there are better options , but we are not allowed to mention them.
On the other hand , if the owner wants to stay in this league, then he will have to make a change methinks,
and there are not many managers capable of doing that with this group.
YEah but it all boils down to same thing mate, we cant afford to sack him whether its his wage or the replacement wage , we are all stuck in a dead end marriage together ;D
OK so Bilic had better players at West Ham and what happened there ? He looked like a broken man at the end .
At West Ham the worst running stats in the league given our fitness levels we can’t be too far off that
A leopard doesn’t change its spots , as their fans say great bloke but would they have him back ?
I don’t believe there is any manager capable of keeping this squad up.Sorry but I can't buy this! Bilic is not doing anything like a wonderful job and today's capitulation was no surprise. Whenever things aren't going his way he becomes downbeat and morose.
And they do say Christmas is the worst time for strained marriages lol.
God help us over the festive period Gaz! 🎅🏼âš½ï¸😭
Watch us find form without Pereira...
Sorry but I can't buy this! Bilic is not doing anything like a wonderful job and today's capitulation was no surprise. Whenever things aren't going his way he becomes downbeat and morose.
This squad is not as bad as a lot make out.
I think a new coach could get a tune.
We write off the likes of Bowyer because they aren't trendy or high profile but I think he could do ok. Lets face it we are not attracting the Pochetinos of this world.
I'm not really Bilic out, but he's weak minded for me and won't survive this relegation battle.
So you honestly believe this squad is premier league quality?
He never said that...
I say stick with Bilic until the transfer window closes in January and see if he gets any backing from the chap in China. If he dont get the backing I can Bilic walking anyway.
I still can't see a better option available to us, but I'd understand if he went after that. They weren't even trying for him.
That bring said, anybody coming in is on a hiding to nothing unless Dowling goes too imo
So you honestly believe this squad is premier league quality?It’s good enough to finish 17th yes
I struggle to count on one hand players we own who are good enough.
It’s good enough to finish 17th yes
The irony is, I have no desire to stay here.
If we’re feeling sorry for him today then what about the last 12 months?
Out of interest who are the 3 teams you think are worse than us?We could finish above Sheffield Utd Fulham Burnley Brighton Leeds Newcastle Villa.
We could finish above Sheffield Utd Fulham Burnley Brighton Leeds Newcastle Villa.
Whether they are worse is subjective but the potential is there.
We could indeed but all of those teams bar Leeds have far more top flight experience than we do. A lot of our squad are average Championship players at best. A new manger may improve things for a short while but we will finish bottom 2 regardless IMO.
We could indeed but all of those teams bar Leeds have far more top flight experience than we do. A lot of our squad are average Championship players at best. A new manger may improve things for a short while but we will finish bottom 2 regardless IMO.We had a great deal of premiership experience last time we went down. And 2 big name managers with loads of premiership experience., however, the only one who did any good was the one with none.
We had a great deal of premiership experience last time we went down. And 2 big name managers with loads of premiership experience., however, the only one who did any good was the one with none.
How anyone can judge Bilic on today is beyond me. It was yet another absolute joke of a "football match".
People need to wise up and realise we are being sinned against / cheated / being the victim of gamesmanship.
If you want Bilic sacked on that basis, shame on you, is what I say.
The judgement being passed on Slav. B is not solely based on today’s result and performance, Greg. It goes back a lot further than that.
How anyone can judge Bilic on today is beyond me. It was yet another absolute joke of a "football match".Well said Greg. This match and at least 3 others, all major decisions by useless or corrupt officials, and that is without even mentioning the general lack of protection, and eagerness to punish in most other games. Looking at a lot of the reactions by posters against Bilic there is certain consistency by some who have made it clear they did not want Bilic and will never fail to criticise. Nothing anybody can do about em they have a right to their own opinions.
People need to wise up and realise we are being sinned against / cheated / being the victim of gamesmanship.
If you want Bilic sacked on that basis, shame on you, is what I say.
Would you trust the club to appoint someone better than Bilic and his coaching staff, I know I wouldn’t. The board are inept.Thats the main thing Bilic has left in favour because his record since Xmas is poor , theres no getting away from that and with a better squad than everybody else bar Leeds maybe .
I’d expect another Pardew or Irvine style appointment.
Would you trust the club to appoint someone better than Bilic and his coaching staff, I know I wouldn’t. The board are inept.
I’d expect another Pardew or Irvine style appointment.
Two points for the Bilic detractors:
1) Do people realise the amount of football matches "we have been done out of". How many more points could we have acquired? We could've easily doubled our points tally!
2) We are at the "top of the league table" in terms of hitting the woodwork! We even hit the woodwork early on v Fulham at 0-0 (Townsend).
I for one find it impossible, in light of the above, to give a clear and consistent of Bilic's performance this season. Anyone rating him as "not good enough" is dismissing these two points.
It is a separate conversation, but i do see your point.
Could we get somebody in who would give is a better chance of staying up? Almost certainly
Would this board find that person? Almost certainty not.
Lepkowski does make some way OTT statements, but he did make the point that any Bilic replacement would either be a pal of Dowling (one person springing to mind instantly) or somebody who works under the "new era" football agency who the club apparantly work closely with.
I don't have much faith in the club finding the man we need.
Agreed. I mean, it's not been great, but we do still have basically the team from the Championship trying to compete in the Prem. Throw in all the VAR stuff, the clanger for losing against Spurs - with just a bit of luck\better VAR decisions, we could be 6-7 points off easily. We'd then all be thinking we're doing fine. Bilic can't do anything about the crooked VAR decisions.
I'd also argue that if we go down, we know Bilic can get us out of that league, so why not keep him and let him build this team?
We can point quite rightly at Var this season but looking at the big picture Bilic's record and performances are far from great .
His defending has never been solid , too many times we lose our shape and both these things were papered over by having better players last season .
He's likable and I felt we were starting to turn the corner a bit after Spurs but its the little things that bother me , he does tinker a bit too much like Grady in for the lively Robinson Today .
I fear the axe won't be long ( imo its been coming result wise ) but i fear who comes next more....
If we hadn’t got bilic in charge and we were in this position and he was available we would be falling over ourselves to get him in.
We have zero chance of staying in this division with Bilic in charge.
Make the change now, give the new man a few weeks to get to know the squad then give him the cash to give us half a chance of staying up.
Needs to be someone who knows how to get the best out of players and motivates them and organises them.
We can't play open football with a poor defence in this league. The last couple of decades has taught us that. We also don't need to go ultra defensive like we were under Pulis.
Can't name names for obvious reasons but there are managers out there that suit that approach.
I love this forum
We could have Pulis back ,win every match and he’d never win people over.
We now have a coach who hasn’t really put a string of results together for a very long time and it’s forgivable because people “like the blokeâ€....many of whom have never met him ..
You can blame VAR, the board,anybody you like, but plain and simple he pick players that are out of form, continually uses the same subs at the same time with no rhyme or reason....and refuses to play Grosiki / Kipre because his ego won’t allow it....he demanded Grady when after 3 successive bouts out with injuries last year it was clear he was struggling...he got him, now look at him 18m on an out of sorts winger that West Ham couldn’t allow to leave quick enough, when what we really needed was a midfield destroyer ...etc etc...it’s time.
Can't name names for obvious reasons but there are managers out there that suit that approach.
I dont see the point of dismissing Bilic whilst the club is supposedly up for sale. Whoever has the job is not going to receive any further financial backing by the looks of it, and it will cost money to a) get rid of Bilic, and b) employ a new manager.
Relegation seems highly likely under the present structure, and I have all but given up thinking we can get out of the bottom 3. This club is only going to change under new ownership, we can sack as many as we want but the problem is higher than that.
I am all for Bilic, as he will be ideal for us next year.
At the moment we are going down without a fight. I atleast want us to fight for every point, not giving up like yesterday. Playing 5 at the back is okay against the big boys but not against the others. Fight for every point is the least, but we cant even do that. For me, the manager has to be blamed if he cant even organise his players and instil fight into them, no character is what i previously said.
Edit:
Sorry one thing i forgot to add was, he is not fighting for his own players, said Periera gave the option of the red - back your player. Ivanovic shoved aside in the box in the 1st half - blatent pen, he never mentioned it. Nor did he mention the CG should be pen in the 2nd half when he was pushed over. None of this was mentioned in the post match press. Is that a manager who has given up or is a manager who doesnt expect any decisions so why talk about it?
Could also be a manager that has feels he is banging his head against a brick wall this season and will only do the club more harm regarding the way authorities view and deal with us . Remember that Bilic whilst being a very passionate man is also a very clever one , qualified in lawNot sure what link there is between a law degree and a weak midfield not to mention limp performances in the second tier with possibly the strongest squad from Xmas onwards .
I know exactly the man that I would appoint who would almost certainly get us up and keep us up.Well firstly, we are already "up", so the first part of your statement is unnecessary
Obviously cant name names but there are others out there that would also do that you are right.
Why didn't they just give Bilic the funds to compete at the start of the season?I'll give you an example here , clear as day Bilic likes to play open football . Thats fine but if you do you are going to need a ball winner to shield , from what I saw Bilic jumped up and down until he got Krovinivic who certainly is a not a ball winner or imo physically strong enough . While he shoulld have more to spend that again imo is a waste of a wage when priorities were elsewhere . No proof but it looked like he dug his heels in on Grant too , the board has a lot to answer for but transfer wise I'm not convinced Bilic's hands are clean either.
I can't think of any managers out there that will be able to keep us up.
Well firstly, we are already "up", so the first part of your statement is unnecessary
And secondly, there is not a manager anywhere that could "almost certainly" keep us up.
Making statements like that is easy, but there are no easy fixes, it's just fantasy and/or wishful thinking.
We wont be up at the end of the season that's my point.Sorry, I thought when you said that you knew the man who could get us up, you were talking about this season. If you are talking about next season, then presumably you accept that we are going to get relegated whatever? In which case, let's stick with Bilic, a manager who has already proved that he can get us up, and at the first attempt.
As for the other part of my post I stand by my comment it's no fantasy to suggest someone else can get us up and keep us there.
I agree with a lot of that. However I think fans are a little quick to blame Bilic for Kipre. I thought Kipre was an ok gamble at the price, but I had concerns having seen footage of him. He could be awful and Bilic could be quite right to leave him out.I get that, but it’s not just kipre, Grosiki stands out, hatrick in the international break but can’t even get on the bench....some of it is just bizarre .
I get that, but it’s not just kipre, Grosiki stands out, hatrick in the international break but can’t even get on the bench....some of it is just bizarre .
I would have sacked him after Fulham.
People are blinded by the scoreline today, when we didn't actually perform that poorly with XI.
I think there is an argument for that, but I think the counter to that is how, as soon as the second goal went in, the players stopped fighting.
I have been saying for a few weeks that I don't see the sense in getting rid of Bilic while the players are still fighting for him. I still don't, because the replacement would be much worse, and these players aren't staying in this division regardless.
But if they've stopped fighting for him, then how long do you persevere?
Alot on here saying might aswel stick with him.
How can we stick with a guy when we've won 1 in 15 or whatever it is now?
These players know their level and that they will struggle against most teams with eleven men on the field playing well. In addition they lack form, confidence and experience. Once the second goal went in it's not that there was a lack of fight, just that they knew there was no coming back regardless of how hard they might try. That's a hard hard place to be even for a professional sportsman and one I know all too well as a pretty average footballer who often felt out of his depth when the odd quality team came our way or even just the odd quality player in a decent side....like Zaha. Too quick, too strong, too skillful.To keep getting kicked in the nads by horrendous, game changing, incorrect VAR decisions must also be spirit breaking. They are only human.
I would have sacked him after Fulham.
People are blinded by the scoreline today, when we didn't actually perform that poorly with XI.
Not sure it's being blinded by the scoreline - whatever way we want to dress it up, losing to Crystal Palace 5-1 at the Hawthorns is unacceptable.So you would sack him because of 40 minutes when we were down to 10 men, whereas the three and a half matches before that there was no lack of commitment so it's not as if Bilic has lost the dressing room? It's not all his fault you know.
I don't have any issues in losing football matches - its why I'm an Albion fan.
But the capitulation and surrender that we saw the second half was in itself a reason for him to be sacked. Every single one of them appeared to give up & there are no excuses for that.
I'm not sure how Bilic recovers from it either.
Alot on here saying might aswel stick with him.
How can we stick with a guy when we've won 1 in 15 or whatever it is now?
So you would sack him because of 40 minutes when we were down to 10 men, whereas the three and a half matches before that there was no lack of commitment so it's not as if Bilic has lost the dressing room? It's not all his fault you know.
One win in fifteen and awful form since the turn of the year is a lot more than one 40 minutes to be fair.
I have to be honest any other manager with that record would be gone.
Sheffield United manager has no win in 15 and some on here would take him over Bilic.
Id suggest both are decent managers in charge of premier league teams that are not good enough.
So you would sack him because of 40 minutes when we were down to 10 men, whereas the three and a half matches before that there was no lack of commitment so it's not as if Bilic has lost the dressing room? It's not all his fault you know.
It does not matter who is in charge this team will be relegated, I said it before a ball was even kicked this season.
We have a championship squad playing in the premier league.
One win in fifteen and awful form since the turn of the year is a lot more than one 40 minutes to be fair.
I have to be honest any other manager with that record would be gone.
One win in fifteen and awful form since the turn of the year is a lot more than one 40 minutes to be fair.What on earth are you talking about? We only lost 5 out of 21 matches in 2020 in the Championship, hardly "awful form since the turn of the year". Sorry but that is a ridiculous comment. And as for the Premiership season so far, how did you expect us to be doing?
I have to be honest any other manager with that record would be gone.
Not in a club where the owners do not want to invest further and the hierarchy had pretty much accepted the probability of relegation before kick off despite whatever was said (actions speak louder etc). And for many fans, myself included, the last time we bought in a fire fighter to keep us up was a dark dark day in hind sight and we would rather go down than take that route again. With the heart rather than the head, but this is football.
In addition I agree with a previous post regarding confidence in the management team to bring in a replacement. Again, not the best reason to want a manger kept on the books but.....
What on earth are you talking about? We only lost 5 out of 21 matches in 2020 in the Championship, hardly "awful form since the turn of the year". Sorry but that is a ridiculous comment. And as for the Premiership season so far, how did you expect us to be doing?
He's not the right man to keep us in this league, but you see little to gain in sacking him now? I'm struggling to make sense of your posts to be honest. What exactly do you think should happen? Keep Bilic in post until the end of the season, whilst you pour scorn on his ability for the next 6 months, then sack him and appoint the man that would "certainly" get us up?
Exactly as we are as you will see if you go back through my posts. I said before a ball was kicked we had no chance of staying up. It's not after timing, take the trouble to go and check.
Bilic is not the right man to keep us in this league he earned the right to retain his position at the start of the season but his philosophy is all wrong for a club in our position.
All that said I see little to gain in sacking him now.
He's not the right man to keep us in this league, but you see little to gain in sacking him now? I'm struggling to make sense of your posts to be honest. What exactly do you think should happen? Keep Bilic in post until the end of the season, whilst you pour scorn on his ability for the next 6 months, then sack him and appoint the man that would "certainly" get us up?
We will never be anything other than a Championship side until someone comes along with a shed load of dosh. It's that simple. There are another six or seven Championship sides up there as well. The divide just gets greater and greater.The gap in terms of quality/ ability has grown quickly even in the 2 seasons we have been out putting even more emphasis on aspiring clubs financial clout. I suspect that Brexit rules are going to add to the burden because clubs are not going to bring in young gems at a young age according to some employment laws that ar3 going to affect all from the next window onwards. The talent pool shrinks so the cost of players grows !
The gap in terms of quality/ ability has grown quickly even in the 2 seasons we have been out putting even more emphasis on aspiring clubs financial clout. I suspect that Brexit rules are going to add to the burden because clubs are not going to bring in young gems at a young age according to some employment laws that ar3 going to affect all from the next window onwards. The talent pool shrinks so the cost of players grows !Which makes our academy prospects even more attractive to the big clubs, especially as it costs them next to nothing!.
Read back through the rest of my posts in this thread.I have, so let me be clear. You think we should keep Bilic until the end of the season, but with no offer of a new contract even if he wants one, and with the sword of Damocles hanging over his head. Then you would sack him and bring in the wonderful manager who would certainly bring us straight back up and keep us up. That is if no-one else appoints him in the next 6 months, which is quite likely as he is such a good manager. To be honest, it's a very poor plan.
I have, so let me be clear. You think we should keep Bilic until the end of the season, but with no offer of a new contract even if he wants one, and with the sword of Damocles hanging over his head. Then you would sack him and bring in the wonderful manager who would certainly bring us straight back up and keep us up. That is if no-one else appoints him in the next 6 months, which is quite likely as he is such a good manager. To be honest, it's a very poor plan.
Yes that's about it. Should said manager be snapped up there are others in world football that could also do the job required.But surely if your man is so good and currently available, what possible reason is there in your mind not to sack Bilic now and appoint him immediately while he is available? Just to save 6 months salary for Bilic?
You say it's a poor plan but its exactly the way to go and I would risk my reputation on "my man".
But surely if your man is so good and currently available, what possible reason is there in your mind not to sack Bilic now and appoint him immediately while he is available? Just to save 6 months salary for Bilic?
Because we would have the "right" manager in situ. He would get 6 months to get to know the squad, with no pressure, and could have time to identify how he is going to spend the money which apparently will appear in June. The alternative is to stick with a dead duck manager (as you see it), watch morale go down the plug hole and all our best players push for a transfer? As I said, a bad plan, poorly thought out.
Because with practically no funds in January what's the point? No manager in world football is going to keep this lot up.
I say keep Slaven.17th would be a minor miracle frankly, but I agree with the rest of what you say.
He had virtually no transfer money.
The players are working as best they can, the sending off was wrong and it changed the game when we were on top.
His goal this season ,as I keep saying, is 17 th position only.
Because we would have the "right" manager in situ. He would get 6 months to get to know the squad, with no pressure, and could have time to identify how he is going to spend the money which apparently will appear in June. The alternative is to stick with a dead duck manager (as you see it), watch morale go down the plug hole and all our best players push for a transfer? As I said, a bad plan, poorly thought out.
We will never be anything other than a Championship side until someone comes along with a shed load of dosh. It's that simple. There are another six or seven Championship sides up there as well. The divide just gets greater and greater.
We will never be anything other than a Championship side until someone comes along with a shed load of dosh. It's that simple. There are another six or seven Championship sides up there as well. The divide just gets greater and greater.
I don't agree. Our finishes just ten years ago - 11th, 10th, 8th in the Premier - say it is possible to bridge that gap with intelligent scouting and recruitment, and a long term plan. All of which have been glaringly absent at our place since Dan Ashworth walked out the door for the FA.
Of course it just got harder now that it will be more difficult to bring in players from abroad; and British clubs will see that as a green light to charge what they want for players, knowing that they don't have many options. However if we play the long term game, invest in the academy and younger players on the way up, then we can establish ourselves. It just might take a long time again. Remember that first 11th was on the back of 8 years of constant up-and-down, and the slow building of a team.
But if we were to build up a team that good again, we couldn't be sentimental and just stick with it; we would need to know when to invest in a player, and when to let him go so that the club could move forward.
Sheffield United manager has no win in 15 and some on here would take him over Bilic.
Id suggest both are decent managers in charge of premier league teams that are not good enough.
A local Sheffield lad and Blades fan who spent 7 years at the club as a player, later returned as a manager and within the space of 4 years got the Blades promoted from League One to the Premier League and kept them up in their first season with a very mediocre squad.
Chris Wilder deservedly has more goodwill from Sheffield United because of what he’s achieved with the club.
Certainly more than the 3 month purple patch Slav. B gave us in the autumn of 2020.
Which makes our academy prospects even more attractive to the big clubs, especially as it costs them next to nothing!.
They may as well have done with it and make teams like us kick uphill, with 10 men whilst wearing slippers. Even then buffoons like Klopp and Mourinho would laud themselves as world beaters, ignorant to the fact that they are winning a fixed race.
I have to say the whole poor for 12 months stick to beat Bilic with grates me.
Firstly, in the last 12 months, we didnt play football for 5 months of it due to the COVID break and also then the break between the end of last season and then this.
During February and March we beat Millwall, Bristol City and Preston who all at the time were strong play off contenders, we didnt just beat them, we outclassed them without conceding a goal.
Even after the COVID break we thrashed Sheffield Wednesday, Hull and beat a then playoff contender in Derby. Of course there were some shockers but we were the 2nd best placed team, we scored the joint second highest amount of goals, let in the third least amount of goals and had the second best goal difference in the league.
There seems to be a myth that the season only started on June and because of the greatest run in Brenfords entire history that we were lucky, we wasnt, we had 46 games to get promoted and we did, it was nervy at the end and we could of made it easier but we got 83 points to get 2nd spot.
Let us not forget, unlike a lot of other clubs, everyday peoples jobs were on the line if we didnt go up, our owners have said we would be self sufficient, there would be no bail out like other clubs have done, so those players know what they do affects peoples livelihoods, yes they get well paid but they also human, any decent human being seeing canteen staff, office staff, etc every day knowing that you could cost them there job is a lot of pressure, So i am not sure what else Bilic and the players could of done last season.
I do think Bilic has made plenty of mistakes, when we signed Diangana i think most fans were chuffed, at the moment its not looking such a good signing as we have changed our system, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Same with Grant, most of us were so happy we got him, and now we have, i am not sure he is the type of striker we need, but again we have had to change how we play, Bilic was maybe naive but i also think there has been a big step up in Premier League quality from other clubs compared to when we were there a couple of years ago.
Our transfer window made us get back what we had last year and add a couple of extra, we are out our depth in this league, aside from the obvious, even sides we will be really targeting for points have players we just cant match, Villa have Grealish, Southampton have Ings and Ward Prowse, Palace have Zaha, even Burnely have a top class keeper, we just dont have those type of players and wont attract players of that ilk in our first season up.
For us to stay up, we need a lot of things to go in favour, we are one of the poorest sides in the league, but you need a few breaks too, we were fortune v Sheffield United, but yesterday looked the better side, sending off changes the game and we just cant match most teams with 10 men, its hard enough with 11. Sheffield United are a good example, they came up, stuck at it and had a season where things went there way, this season they look hopeless.
As i say Bilic has made plenty of mistakes but he has no room for error, most managers can make signings that dont work, because of how Albion are run, we have more pressure than most when it comes to that. I have said previous i think Bilic could do himself a favour and get a defense minded coach in to help organise things, we do make a lot of mistakes but also we just arent good enough a lot of the time and whoever the manager is, that wont change.
We are in a mini league with 3, possibly 4 other clubs, the rest are a long way ahead of us in terms of quality, all we can do is make ourselves competitive, there have been games where it hasnt been good enough such as Fulham and Southampton, there have been games where a sending off played a big part in costing us the game v Everton and Palace and games where were outclassed like Leicester, and others where we have been unlucky.
There is lots of talk about vision and long term, but what does it say if you sack the bloke who got you promoted at the first attempt, if we keep sacking managers every couple of seasons then nothing will change, if Bilic goes then if the next manager is struggling after another 15 games which in this league there is a very strong chance we will be, do we sack him? Then the next, then the next, etc.
We could go and get a Pulis or Allardyce type, they may strangle the life out of football and keep us up but as we saw with Pulis, its short term and when things go stale (which they will) there is a lot of mess to be cleaned up and you alienate and already fickle fan base after having three years of Pulis ball.
You cant keep sacking people every time there is a tough spell, i think any fan knew this season was going to be hard and its proving just that, Bilic task was to get us up, he did it, the next task is keep us up, he is having a go at it, we have played six of the top 9 already and we are only 1 point from 17th which is our target this season (which shows how bad modern football is but thats the premier league for you)
The only way i would be looking at getting rid of Bilic is if he made it clear he had no intention of staying next season.
No.Spot on Liam.
I'd sack him on the basis of the last 12 months.
I have never insinuated that Bilic has lost the dressing room but this is a damaging defeat which I'm not sure how they recover from.
I could have taken losing had we put up a spirited effort, whereby we defended well and squeezed Palace as much as we could. But we didn't, we conceded quickly and waived the white flag.
Defending with fewer men are basic, routine training exercises. I do not think there will be another side in this division - or in the division below for that matter - that would put up such a weak performance following a red card.
This side has no defensive structure to it - it does not know how to defend - and therefore we will find ourselves on the back of a few more embarrassing hammerings this season if we continue with the same approach.
We conceded a goal per game last season with pretty much the same personnel. Can someone enlighten me how we can improve on that without upgrading this personnel. I think most people would agree that Johnstone, Bartley, Furlong and Townsend are nowhere near Prem quality. In fact look through the whole squad and tell me who really is good enough for this level? Palace had a squad full of very experienced players on show yesterday. Of their first 11 I'd say at least 9 would start ahead of what we had on show. Their bench had players we could only dream of signing.
I don't think there is a cat in hells chance of this squad staying up whether it is Guardiola or Pulis in charge. If we do make a change then I hope it is with a long term plan in place and not a quick fix to try and stay up. Let's face it with our current ownership we aren't going to attract anyone of note.
You cant keep sacking people every time there is a tough spell, i think any fan knew this season was going to be hard and its proving just that, Bilic task was to get us up, he did it, the next task is keep us up, he is having a go at it, we have played six of the top 9 already and we are only 1 point from 17th which is our target this season (which shows how bad modern football is but thats the premier league for you)
It’s not a new head coach we need but better quality players.Disagree with this Bielsa is getting a lot more out of players like Bamford,Cooper,Dallas,Ayling who are all of a similar quality to what we have.
Disagree with this Bielsa is getting a lot more out of players like Bamford,Cooper,Dallas,Ayling who are all of a similar quality to what we have.
Yesterday second half performance was unforgivable after getting to halftime 1-1.Tactically it was a lesson in how not to play a game with 10 men.
I have to say the whole poor for 12 months stick to beat Bilic with grates me.Thank you for taking the time to post in detail what many of us have been trying to say less eloquently for the last few weeks. Everything you say is spot on.
Firstly, in the last 12 months, we didnt play football for 5 months of it due to the COVID break and also then the break between the end of last season and then this.
During February and March we beat Millwall, Bristol City and Preston who all at the time were strong play off contenders, we didnt just beat them, we outclassed them without conceding a goal.
Even after the COVID break we thrashed Sheffield Wednesday, Hull and beat a then playoff contender in Derby. Of course there were some shockers but we were the 2nd best placed team, we scored the joint second highest amount of goals, let in the third least amount of goals and had the second best goal difference in the league.
There seems to be a myth that the season only started on June and because of the greatest run in Brenfords entire history that we were lucky, we wasnt, we had 46 games to get promoted and we did, it was nervy at the end and we could of made it easier but we got 83 points to get 2nd spot.
Let us not forget, unlike a lot of other clubs, everyday peoples jobs were on the line if we didnt go up, our owners have said we would be self sufficient, there would be no bail out like other clubs have done, so those players know what they do affects peoples livelihoods, yes they get well paid but they also human, any decent human being seeing canteen staff, office staff, etc every day knowing that you could cost them there job is a lot of pressure, So i am not sure what else Bilic and the players could of done last season.
I do think Bilic has made plenty of mistakes, when we signed Diangana i think most fans were chuffed, at the moment its not looking such a good signing as we have changed our system, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Same with Grant, most of us were so happy we got him, and now we have, i am not sure he is the type of striker we need, but again we have had to change how we play, Bilic was maybe naive but i also think there has been a big step up in Premier League quality from other clubs compared to when we were there a couple of years ago.
Our transfer window made us get back what we had last year and add a couple of extra, we are out our depth in this league, aside from the obvious, even sides we will be really targeting for points have players we just cant match, Villa have Grealish, Southampton have Ings and Ward Prowse, Palace have Zaha, even Burnely have a top class keeper, we just dont have those type of players and wont attract players of that ilk in our first season up.
For us to stay up, we need a lot of things to go in favour, we are one of the poorest sides in the league, but you need a few breaks too, we were fortune v Sheffield United, but yesterday looked the better side, sending off changes the game and we just cant match most teams with 10 men, its hard enough with 11. Sheffield United are a good example, they came up, stuck at it and had a season where things went there way, this season they look hopeless.
As i say Bilic has made plenty of mistakes but he has no room for error, most managers can make signings that dont work, because of how Albion are run, we have more pressure than most when it comes to that. I have said previous i think Bilic could do himself a favour and get a defense minded coach in to help organise things, we do make a lot of mistakes but also we just arent good enough a lot of the time and whoever the manager is, that wont change.
We are in a mini league with 3, possibly 4 other clubs, the rest are a long way ahead of us in terms of quality, all we can do is make ourselves competitive, there have been games where it hasnt been good enough such as Fulham and Southampton, there have been games where a sending off played a big part in costing us the game v Everton and Palace and games where were outclassed like Leicester, and others where we have been unlucky.
There is lots of talk about vision and long term, but what does it say if you sack the bloke who got you promoted at the first attempt, if we keep sacking managers every couple of seasons then nothing will change, if Bilic goes then if the next manager is struggling after another 15 games which in this league there is a very strong chance we will be, do we sack him? Then the next, then the next, etc.
We could go and get a Pulis or Allardyce type, they may strangle the life out of football and keep us up but as we saw with Pulis, its short term and when things go stale (which they will) there is a lot of mess to be cleaned up and you alienate and already fickle fan base after having three years of Pulis ball.
You cant keep sacking people every time there is a tough spell, i think any fan knew this season was going to be hard and its proving just that, Bilic task was to get us up, he did it, the next task is keep us up, he is having a go at it, we have played six of the top 9 already and we are only 1 point from 17th which is our target this season (which shows how bad modern football is but thats the premier league for you)
The only way i would be looking at getting rid of Bilic is if he made it clear he had no intention of staying next season.
Disagree with this Bielsa is getting a lot more out of players like Bamford,Cooper,Dallas,Ayling who are all of a similar quality to what we have.
Yesterday second half performance was unforgivable after getting to halftime 1-1.Tactically it was a lesson in how not to play a game with 10 men.
Ridiculous to take players of over red card but also ridiculous were Bilic's comments after game about Pereira giving ref the option to send him off. Only blokes that needs to grow a pair is Slaven and the 11 he puts out (Gallagher not included more balls than the lot of them)
I'd hope w are appealing. No way that was violent conduct.
if it was overturned they'd be admitting that VAR and the ref were wrong, and that won't happen.
FAO: zippy and bungle / albion59Are you ok?
So are you quite content with the officials decision making so far this season in relation to WBAFC? Cards on the table.
Do you concur that we could've at least doubled our points total (to 12, from 6) with better decision making?
Do you realise the full implications and detrimental impact bad refereeing / VAR has on actual football results?
Decisions are different level, even worse than 2002/03 under Megson!
Are you ok?
What cards are you playing with?
Better decision making....in this case I’m assuming you mean officials, and whilst it may appear they favour the “bigger teams†I don’t think that’s always the case, my “better decision making†could come from the head coach...the subs, the tactics, the strange continued omissions ..
But if folk want to blame a couple of VAR decisions for the fact that under Slav in 2020 we have never really looked like we could...then that’s their choice.
I wouldn't have thought that was an option.
VAR told the ref to review his original decision (a yellow) which he did.
On review the ref decided it was red.
So it's already had two coats of looking at.
If it was overturned they'd be admitting that VAR and the ref were wrong, and that won't happen.
The VAR was not wrong, it only recorded the incident. Its down to referee interpretation, and the bloke 150 miles away.
It wont be overturned because whatever excuse they come up with he planted his studs in the players chest, and although it was not a full blown kick, he did straighten his legs a fair bit. I am not offering an opinion of his mindset, but it 'looked' intentional and that to me is what came across on VAR. As soon as I saw it I knew he was in trouble.
Then how do you explain the fact that VAR looked at similar if not worse reactions from Man United and Wolves players and found no reason to send them off?
Are you ok?
What cards are you playing with?
Better decision making....in this case I’m assuming you mean officials, and whilst it may appear they favour the “bigger teams†I don’t think that’s always the case, my “better decision making†could come from the head coach...the subs, the tactics, the strange continued omissions ..
But if folk want to blame a couple of VAR decisions for the fact that under Slav in 2020 we have never really looked like we could...then that’s their choice.
I'll make it easier for you:You must be having a bad day
Everton V WBA. Albion better side leading 1-2, Gibs sent off to help Everton win the game.
WBA v Chelsea. Blatant Chavs goal awarded to deny us the win last kick of the game.
Man U v WBA, penalty overruled to go 0-1 then Man U pen gets re-taken, we lose.
WBA v CP, CP incorrectly awarded in build up to 0-1 after 8 mins, Pereira sent off for nothing, possible WBA penalty waved away?
Throw in we top the league hitting the woodwork.
But it's OK, you just carry on and blame Bilic and let the VAR/Assistants do their thing.....
2 penalties for Grealish are upcoming in the Derby.
I'm not watching WBA anymore this season, just checking results, which I'm entitled to do.
Bring on Allardyce as it's all Slaven's fault.
I'll make it easier for you:
Everton V WBA. Albion better side leading 1-2, Gibs sent off to help Everton win the game.
WBA v Chelsea. Blatant Chavs goal awarded to deny us the win last kick of the game.
Man U v WBA, penalty overruled to go 0-1 then Man U pen gets re-taken, we lose.
WBA v CP, CP incorrectly awarded in build up to 0-1 after 8 mins, Pereira sent off for nothing, possible WBA penalty waved away?
Throw in we top the league hitting the woodwork.
But it's OK, you just carry on and blame Bilic and let the VAR/Assistants do their thing.....
2 penalties for Grealish are upcoming in the Derby.
I'm not watching WBA anymore this season, just checking results, which I'm entitled to do.
Bring on Allardyce as it's all Slaven's fault.
Then how do you explain the fact that VAR looked at similar if not worse reactions from Man United and Wolves players and found no reason to send them off?
You must be having a bad day
I’m not sure if being top of the “hitting the woodwork†League is a good thing.
I also don’t see how you can blame officials for sending Gibbs off?
Then you are able to see in to the future?
The club basically said to Bilic we don't expect anything this season, we will simply take the money on offer and go again next year.
If that is the case why didn’t the club communicate that message to the fans?
I mean, Norwich City had no trouble communicating that message to their fans following the clubs promotion in 18/19.
This is exactly what they should have done. We are here for the money, we will likely go down and take the cash thank you very much. Lai and board should have been honest and transparent. People will respect them more for it. Signing players Bilic doesnt want as it might make good business sense for future transfers isn't a staying up strategy.
I always said i felt this year isnt of much important to Lai. It's 2022-23 that is IMO When the new PL TV rights deal kicks in. Any PL club that season will go up in value due to that alone. He will want us in the PL that year for sure.
Much easier to get your hands on the new EPL TV deal when you’re already in the EPL, Gaz. Just think how many of the 24 teams in the Championship will be vying for promotion during the 2021/2022 season in a bid to secure their financial future for 2,3,4 or even 5 seasons afterwards.
But yeah, I agree with what you’re saying about honesty and transparency. Can’t really complain too much if our expectations have already been managed!
I agree Partisan and Bilic rightly called the board out on it, it's easier to stay in the PL than get into it but i won't say too much more about the board.
Being positive we should make a very nice profit last season and this season combined. With all the dead wood leaving at the end of this season and the parachute payments next year we should be in the top 3 richest clubs in the EFL.
My thoughts in short after a few days....
Did Bilic need more backing ? Yes
Has he spent money wisely ? Early yet but I'm not convinced .
Has Var hindered us ? 100% done over
Is Bilic tactically up to it at this level ? No , don't think so.
Is Bilic getting the best out of what he has ? No IMO.
Anybody better qualified available ? Nobody stands out.
Will his 60 min sub stop ? No chance :D.
Utter mess really , can only hope he turns it round but I think Newcastle might be his last stand if its another limp Southampton/ Fulham performance.
Bilic not good enough tactically, where? You can't look beyond we deserve more points. He's dropped Livermore when it was justified. Who on the sidelines could improve the playing 11? We don't have better resources in the stands. We still have the lowest budget of all teams.Well for a start our best attacker this season has been Robinson , tell me why he was dropped for a well out of form Diang against Palace ? . Our best attacker Pereira has spent most of this season out of position , the stubborness over Grosiki is laughable and although I'm no Gibbs fan ...Phillips at LWB ? Really ? .
You referenced a poor performance v So'ton, they are an outstanding team. Even Fulham we hit the bar at 0-0.
I predict the axe will fall after the Villa match.
Well for a start our best attacker this season has been Robinson , tell me why he was dropped for a well out of form Diang against Palace ? . Our best attacker Pereira has spent most of this season out of position , the stubborness over Grosiki is laughable and although I'm no Gibbs fan ...Phillips at LWB ? Really ? .This is pretty much how it seems to me, especially the bodge of a tactical setup that seems to never give us proper traction in midfield and makes us look disjointed all over the pitch so often, I think it is supposed to make us quick on the break?
I've seen you mention the crossbar at Fulham a few times , that doesn't hide one of the weakest Albion performances in years . Yes Saints are having a good season but again we never laid a glove on them . Tactically as said by West Ham fans if plan A doesnt work he's lost , are we defensive ? are we a pressing side ? ....its a bodge of whatever if we are being honest .
Down to ten men against Palace , we did ok last 15 of the first half and still had a threat so why 2nd did he sit us deeper and invite Eze , Benteke, Zaha and others to a party on the edge of our box .
He's a top guy , a motivator but he's not a good tactical coach at all .Thats not to say I want him gone i might add but i think he will , limp against Newcastle and's gone for me.
Allright lads, some valid points you've made about Bilic there. But really you're picking at small holes.
No use complaining about v Palace, the officials/VAR decided that game, it was absolutely ruined.
Rather than games in isolation I raise the following:
1) Dean Smith should've relegated AV last season after spending £140m.
2) Think Scott Parker at Fulham is better? 1 pt better off, loads more money spent.
3) Chris Wilder still at SU despite embarrassingly having 1 pt.
And yes Bilic does frustrate me for bringing on HRK in the 60th minute.
Anyhow unless Slaven delivers an unexpected win at St James Park I think it's a case of when he goes rather than if, sadly for me.
Allright lads, some valid points you've made about Bilic there. But really you're picking at small holes.Not picking at small holes , the holes get bigger as time goes on . Easy with the var episode to look past another dreadful start in the Palace game and could well have been 2 down before the red card .Slow starts are a regular thing and were from Xmas last year , quite why Bilic said in public about Pereira giving them a chance for a red I just don't know as that buggered an appeal before we tried .
No use complaining about v Palace, the officials/VAR decided that game, it was absolutely ruined.
Rather than games in isolation I raise the following:
1) Dean Smith should've relegated AV last season after spending £140m.
2) Think Scott Parker at Fulham is better? 1 pt better off, loads more money spent.
3) Chris Wilder still at SU despite embarrassingly having 1 pt.
And yes Bilic does frustrate me for bringing on HRK in the 60th minute.
Anyhow unless Slaven delivers an unexpected win at St James Park I think it's a case of when he goes rather than if, sadly for me.
Bilic not good enough tactically, where? You can't look beyond we deserve more points. He's dropped Livermore when it was justified. Who on the sidelines could improve the playing 11? We don't have better resources in the stands. We still have the lowest budget of all teams.He hasn't, it wasn't , he would'nt , next
You referenced a poor performance v So'ton, they are an outstanding team. Even Fulham we hit the bar at 0-0.
I predict the axe will fall after the Villa match.
Not picking at small holes , the holes get bigger as time goes on . Easy with the var episode to look past another dreadful start in the Palace game and could well have been 2 down before the red card .Slow starts are a regular thing and were from Xmas last year , quite why Bilic said in public about Pereira giving them a chance for a red I just don't know as that buggered an appeal before we tried .
Money spent well helps but as we know you need a structure and direction , just chucking money isnt a cure .
As much as I like Slav and dread some names without a job we lost our direction , structure and plan a fair while back.
Being brutal we blew it and let Brentford in , thankfully they blew it also with two games to go ....I was never convinced that was good enough with the squad he had back then.
As you say unless theres a major break through it wont be long sadly.
I don't see the point of harping back to last season, he got us up! First season back in the Championship, we failed!
You mean the dreadful start when we conceded on 8 mins from a Palace free kick that wasn't even a foul?Foul or not you have to be switched on , can't keep hiding behind VAR as much as its hindered us at times ...dozy starts and bad shape isn't down to VAR .
Palace has spent millions more than us but we matched them 1st half until we'll you know the rest......
I don't see the point of harping back to last season, he got us up! First season back in the Championship, we failed!
When all is said and done we still have the lowest budget. Why hasnt the club being sold to new investors? Next month we'll be scratching around for free transfers, not good enough enough.
Overall I've lost some interest (just as well).
Still finished 4th being led by two highly inexperienced managers.
Slav.B only just about managed to finish second, even with his vast experience as a manager.
I just don’t understand comments like ‘only just managed to finish second’! It’s like we thought we had a divine right to go up and the best squad in the league to do it with.Quite agree no divine right but for the 2nd tier that was a hell of a squad . Debatable between us and Leeds , nobody else came near .
Neither are true. It was a hell of a job to get us up especially with a huge break for a pandemic mid season and then playing the final games behind closed doors.
Would love to know what you thought of Pulis, Pardew and Moore.
I just don’t understand comments like ‘only just managed to finish second’! It’s like we thought we had a divine right to go up and the best squad in the league to do it with.
Neither are true. It was a hell of a job to get us up especially with a huge break for a pandemic mid season and then playing the final games behind closed doors.
Would love to know what you thought of Pulis, Pardew and Moore.
The only team to touch us last season was Leeds, Frazzle.
And speaking of Leeds, they came back refreshed and raring to go at the restart, whereas we looked shattered. Why?
There's a world of difference between looking shattered and looking out of our depth.
I’m referring to the 19/20 season restart in June 2020.
The only team to touch us last season was Leeds, Frazzle.They didn't come back refreshed and raring to go - they lost their first match back.
And speaking of Leeds, they came back refreshed and raring to go at the restart, whereas we looked shattered. Why?
They didn't come back refreshed and raring to go - they lost their first match back.
We didn't come back looking shattered. We were unbeaten in 5 home games after the restart, and only lost 2 in 9.
We deservedly went up.
The only team to touch us last season was Leeds, Frazzle.
And speaking of Leeds, they came back refreshed and raring to go at the restart, whereas we looked shattered. Why?
So Bilic achieved the objective of getting promoted in 19/20. What exactly is the point of going on about performance against weaker teams in the division below? The 5-1 v Swansea was the most complete WBA performance in how long, it could have been 8 or more.Nobody expects us to survive , most hope to have a good go . As a few of us pointed out to you Yesterday theres no clear pattern when we play , we drift through games with the hope one of our attackers comes up with something .
Just to get this straight Dean Smith was kept on at AV for the whole season, spending £140m, they could and should have gone down. I'm sure their board was expecting a much better placing than 17th?
At the Hawthorns, we are seriously considering sacking a guy who has the lowest budget in the league and something like 20% of the budget DS had. By rights we deserve to finish 20th, do it can be argued we are over-achieving. Why do our fans EXPECT to survive in this division, based on the constraints placed on our Manager?
Nobody expects us to survive , most hope to have a good go . As a few of us pointed out to you Yesterday theres no clear pattern when we play , we drift through games with the hope one of our attackers comes up with something .
Again as a few of us pointed out to you thats been since Xmas , it was an issue then so clearly it is now where you can be 3 down in 10 mins if you're not careful .
While Bilic should have had more to spend he was hugely backed last season , our isnt so much amounts its how you spend it and what you build .
I look at games against Fulham , Saints and partly Palace and he's miles off . The likes of Man Utd , Spurs and Sheff Utd is more like it ....turning up 110% should be a given every game but so far its not.
I look at games against Fulham , Saints and partly Palace and he's miles off . The likes of Man Utd , Spurs and Sheff Utd is more like it ....turning up 110% should be a given every game but so far its not.
So Bilic achieved the objective of getting promoted in 19/20. What exactly is the point of going on about performance against weaker teams in the division below? The 5-1 v Swansea was the most complete WBA performance in how long, it could have been 8 or more.
BUT, you can only select from what you've got and if they're not good enough, you can talk till you're blue in the face about tactics, shape fitness etc and it will make no/too little difference to affect the result.
BUT, you can only select from what you've got and if they're not good enough, you can talk till you're blue in the face about tactics, shape fitness etc and it will make no/too little difference to affect the result.
You can have great players to select from and still be a poor manager.
BUT, you can only select from what you've got and if they're not good enough, you can talk till you're blue in the face about tactics, shape fitness etc and it will make no/too little difference to affect the result.Whether they are good enough is also subjective though. They may not look good enough at the minute because of tactics, fitness, morale etc. but someone new comes in and Eureka.
Its blatantly clear that you have no time at all for Slaven and that is your right. It is however a pity that you give him minimal credit for getting the club promoted at the first attempt. It is far too simple to say that only Leeds were close to us in terms of squad available. That championship is extremely competitive, regardless of your personnel and he did the job asked of him. We are in a different league now in more ways than one. I have to agree that he is getting things wrong but do not believe he deserves the sack based on resources available to him. I do however think you will get your wish, before Christmas, and what happens after that will be very interesting.....
I think it all boils down to: are you happy with how Albion are doing? And I think the answer to that question is "no". You might be accepting, but not happy.
The follow-up to that is "why?". Why are we not happy? And the answer is far and ranging and much too long to discuss here, but for me it comes down to Vision. Vision across the entirety of the club, from the Owner, down to the players on the pitch.
What is our Owner's vision for the club? He wants to sell it. Well that doesn't give us much steer as to what the club will look like in five or ten years time. There's no vision.
What is Dowling's vision for the club? How is he preparing and cultivating a playing squad that is well balanced and suites for the task at hand? As others have said, we have plenty of wingers and attacking midfielders, with very few true defensive midfielders. As I have said elsewhere, we have plenty of ageing first team players in their final year of contract, and we haven't moved them on, nor extended their contracts to protect their value. We're not looking beyond the next few months. There's no vision.
Finally, Bilic. Can we see a trajectory of where he's trying to take us in terms of playing style or method of winning games? Can we see a progression from the football we played last year, to how we play now? What is Bilic's style? High pressing? Not really. Counter-attacking? A little, maybe. I don't see where he is trying to take us with his tactics. There's no vision.
I saw an analogy that the three roles outlines above are like the hands on a clock face. Hours. Minutes. Seconds. The owner has the longest term vision as the hour hand, the Sporting Director manages the medium term as the minute hand, and the head coach is second hand, dealing with each match.
Except our clock is broken. The hour hand isn't moving at all (though it would prefer not to be on the clock at all), the minute hand is going round at double or even triple speed, and the second hand can't decide if it wants to go clockwise or counterclockwise.
You can talk about changing the manager but you're not going to fix the club. Any new appointment would be found by Dowling and approved by Ken or Lai, and each of them will have their own motivations for the appointment, whether it's cost, or someone who won't rock the boat.
This isn't a defence of Bilic, I hope that is clear, but it's an acknowledgement that changing the manager won't fix our problems. At best it would be a plaster on the wound, that might buy us some time, but I don't have faith the club would use that time wisely even if we got it.
I'm in the no point in changing manager camp, give him the season and make a decision in the summer.Unless someone becomes available who is too good to turn down, I'd agree. Wouldn't be doling out any contract offers based on current performances though.
Unless someone becomes available who is too good to turn down, I'd agree. Wouldn't be doling out any contract offers based on current performances though.
At some point though, it's going to be untenable, if things don't turn. No-one can survive 1 win in 20/30 games. Worry then would be the sort of replacement we'd be looking at. ::)
The fact that we have lost so many points in the final 10 or so minutes of a match might indicate that the fitness regimen at the club is not up to EPL standards as well as anything else.
The purchases have been less than optimal. We are overloaded in wingers and light in defensive midfielders. The acquisition of Ivanovitch confounds me especially after we let Hegazi go.
However I think we should retain Bilic for the remainder of his contract. We already have the reputation of knee-jerk dismissals of managers. It doesn't present an attractive prospect to future applicants. Anyway, I can't think of anyone that is in our price range, is available and would want to come to the Hawthorns. (Well I can think of one but rules are rules.)
As a supporter I can take life in the second division. What I couldn't stomach is someone coming in and trying to make a quick buck by selling and leasing back the real estate: Hawthorns and training.
The club is where it is for a reason. Without the financial backing enjoyed by Wolves and Witton this is where we will remain.
Getting rid of Slaven and replacing him with someone else is like sticking lipstick on a pig.
You can have great players to select from and still be a poor manager.
Seems like you are blaming Bilic for the Crystal Palace debacle?
So Albion fans are expected to turn a blind eye to the cheating and say "stiff upper lip old chap"?
So for the next 3 matches (inexplicably without our best player arguably) what is the minimum requirements for Bilic to keep his job going into the Christmas programme?
Out of NEW, MC, AV I don't see us winning either. Grealish and Co will be imagining what carnage they can unleash under the VAR system.
Seems like you are blaming Bilic for the Crystal Palace debacle?
So Albion fans are expected to turn a blind eye to the cheating and say "stiff upper lip old chap"?
So for the next 3 matches (inexplicably without our best player arguably) what is the minimum requirements for Bilic to keep his job going into the Christmas programme?
Out of NEW, MC, AV I don't see us winning either. Grealish and Co will be imagining what carnage they can unleash under the VAR system.
Mate, I’m as fed up with you about Var but you are beginning to sound like Trump complaining about the election! :D
Thanks for the likeness to Donald Trump, that's just great! The difference was the election wasn't rigged, lol.
Against Palace we won by a lot! ;D
At this moment in time, Slaven doesn't have great players to select from.
He has a bunch of average players with 2/3 exceptions.
It's clear how you feel about Slav, but even great managers like Klopp and Pep would struggle making our current squad look like a comfortable premier league side that ain't facing a relegation battle.
The grass isn't always greener on the other side is what alot of fans need to realise.
Against Palace we won by a lot! ;D
I think you’ve already answered for me in your post, KN22.
“He did the job asked of himâ€
Can that all be down to the manager? The players have shown that they are capable of putting a shift in from time to time. Where is the consistency?I'd agree on fitness , we look blown on 70 mins quite often .
The one thing I would question however is fitness. I'm not convinced we are anywhere near the level required.
Well we are giving it a go in terms of surviving. I don't know how many times I have to point out, we are at least minus 6 pts in terms of where we should be thanks to decisions.Nobody is debating about the VAR issue / points but that doesn't mask over other issues .
Wow, you are actually accusing of the players giving less than 100% in the games? I disagree.
Everytime our players line up in the tunnel the team opposite is more expensive!
I'm not really sure exactly what you're expecting here? I don't think your expectations correlate in any way to the clubs operating model.
For me the blame lies 50% with the board / 50% with VAR & Officials.
Lai has had the chance to ensure the club was sold over the Autumn, in order to release funds for the January transfer window.
Its tough Bilic has had to put up with this situation. Ultimately, I expect him to be made a scapegoat.
Nobody is debating about the VAR issue / points but that doesn't mask over other issues .
Your point about more expensive players , that's nearly always been the way when we have been top flight so I don't see where you are going with that .Look at our past wins against much better sides and its nearly always staying tight , sticking to a plan and a little bit of quality.....we've seen that almost work against Spurs and Man Utd and thats how I want to see us approach games . You then have the other side of the coin where we turn up looking dozy , powderpuff at times and it doesn't look like the same side .That happened a lot last season and has followed on to this season at times , I've seen you posting about the Palace game blaming it on the red card , I agree it blew the game for us but again we turned up with little shape and could easily been 2 down inside 20 mins long before our goal and the sending off .
I'm not at all saying the players give less than 100% but I will say I do not think there is a clear plan coming from Bilic , for a bloke whose key point is motivating there are some really flat performances at times .
If you think Lai is going to sell just for some funds in Jan......well I'll leave that one there mate.
The crux of the matter is accepting all of the context is Bilic getting the most out of the players available to him? I am not sure he is and that is not a question of motivation but basic team shape tactics etc.
As far as i can see the main cause for concern from the Bilic detractors is from a lack of shape / cohesion /organisation similar to Hodgson or Pulis. Perhaps the most similar Manager in that style is Chris Wilder and he only has 1 point on the board.
By defintion Bilic wants to play more attacking football and easier on the eye.
No one can get away from the fact we should be on 12 pts. A pragmatic Manager doesn't give anymore guarantee of success.
We don't have the Infrastructure of a Premier League club and that really is the bottom line.
I think its a lazy argument to bring Pulis / Hodgson in. There is a hugh spectrum between Pulis' and Bilic. Wanting to see a back four that know their role, position and shape doesn't mean going to four centre half's and cutting out the midfield.
I also can get away from the 'fact' we should be on 12 points.
There is no fact we should be on 12 points. We may have still only been on 8. Only the Chelsea incident was at a point that it almost certainly cost us points from memory.
Sorry mate but we had Gibbs sent off at Everton when well in the game and 1-2 at one point. Everyone knows we had the chance of 3 pts at Man U. Crystal Palace we were slightly on top and was absolutely no indication we'd have got any less than a draw at least.
So for you to say we could be on 8pts is frankly laughable. You can keep passing off the VAR decisions as OK. Wait till Grealish takes the **** with diving.
Who is your suggestion to replace Bilic based on the financial constraints placed by the WBA board?
Damn, run out of popcorn.....
I think it all boils down to: are you happy with how Albion are doing? And I think the answer to that question is "no". You might be accepting, but not happy.That's a great piece and you've hit the nail on the head.
The follow-up to that is "why?". Why are we not happy? And the answer is far and ranging and much too long to discuss here, but for me it comes down to Vision. Vision across the entirety of the club, from the Owner, down to the players on the pitch.
What is our Owner's vision for the club? He wants to sell it. Well that doesn't give us much steer as to what the club will look like in five or ten years time. There's no vision.
What is Dowling's vision for the club? How is he preparing and cultivating a playing squad that is well balanced and suites for the task at hand? As others have said, we have plenty of wingers and attacking midfielders, with very few true defensive midfielders. As I have said elsewhere, we have plenty of ageing first team players in their final year of contract, and we haven't moved them on, nor extended their contracts to protect their value. We're not looking beyond the next few months. There's no vision.
Finally, Bilic. Can we see a trajectory of where he's trying to take us in terms of playing style or method of winning games? Can we see a progression from the football we played last year, to how we play now? What is Bilic's style? High pressing? Not really. Counter-attacking? A little, maybe. I don't see where he is trying to take us with his tactics. There's no vision.
I saw an analogy that the three roles outlines above are like the hands on a clock face. Hours. Minutes. Seconds. The owner has the longest term vision as the hour hand, the Sporting Director manages the medium term as the minute hand, and the head coach is second hand, dealing with each match.
Except our clock is broken. The hour hand isn't moving at all (though it would prefer not to be on the clock at all), the minute hand is going round at double or even triple speed, and the second hand can't decide if it wants to go clockwise or counterclockwise.
You can talk about changing the manager but you're not going to fix the club. Any new appointment would be found by Dowling and approved by Ken or Lai, and each of them will have their own motivations for the appointment, whether it's cost, or someone who won't rock the boat.
This isn't a defence of Bilic, I hope that is clear, but it's an acknowledgement that changing the manager won't fix our problems. At best it would be a plaster on the wound, that might buy us some time, but I don't have faith the club would use that time wisely even if we got it.
I think he rates him quite highly Sanbag
Hmmmmm, I thought as much.
The VAR debate feels like Custer’s Last Stand.
My expectations are at the correct level according to the clubs infrastructure.
You've still put no credible alternative for who you want as boss?
No doubt youll be on here at 5pm tomorrow calling for Bilic's removal if we lose at Newcastle.......
My expectations are at the correct level according to the clubs infrastructure.If we lose tomorrow there won't be any need for anyone to call for his removal he will be removed anyway.
You've still put no credible alternative for who you want as boss?
No doubt youll be on here at 5pm tomorrow calling for Bilic's removal if we lose at Newcastle.......
Not to worry, I still have more than enough left and have sent a lorry load to you ;)
In reference to x8 successive seasons in the Premier League, we were pretty much over achieving on 2 counts: player recruitment and manager / tactics.See now you've hit the point of our past sucess and tactics , something which as posted before is very unclear with Bilic as yet . Roy could be boring at times but you knew exactly how we would play , same for Clarke in part and again fully for Pulis . Hand on heart there appears to me at times to be no clear plan from Bilic or style , I have no issue losing/struggling at this level if I see a clear plan .
As I alluded to, the club is not befitting of Premier League status on budget. We have not increased the size of stadium. Throw in catastrophic VAR decisions on a regular basis, then you have an absolute recipe for disaster.
If we fire Slaven Bilic, then it is highly probable the new boss will not see out the season either. 25 or so games is a long slog.
As far as i can see the main cause for concern from the Bilic detractors is from a lack of shape / cohesion /organisation similar to Hodgson or Pulis. Perhaps the most similar Manager in that style is Chris Wilder and he only has 1 point on the board.Theres playing attacking football / easier on the eye and then there's being naive which we have at times .
By defintion Bilic wants to play more attacking football and easier on the eye.
No one can get away from the fact we should be on 12 pts. A pragmatic Manager doesn't give anymore guarantee of success.
We don't have the Infrastructure of a Premier League club and that really is the bottom line.
Sorry mate but we had Gibbs sent off at Everton when well in the game and 1-2 at one point. Everyone knows we had the chance of 3 pts at Man U. Crystal Palace we were slightly on top and was absolutely no indication we'd have got any less than a draw at least.Interesting that all those that disagree with you (and there are numerous) are “laughableâ€
So for you to say we could be on 8pts is frankly laughable. You can keep passing off the VAR decisions as OK. Wait till Grealish takes the p--s with diving.
Who is your suggestion to replace Bilic based on the financial constraints placed by the WBA board?
Interesting that all those that disagree with you (and there are numerous) are “laughableâ€
Does it ever feel that the rest of the world are all wrong?
You blame VAR for bilic,s lack of management and tactical nous, you revere the fact that we are top of the “hitting the woodwork†league
You also ask about replacements ....when the mods have said on many many occasions that this is not allowed .
We would have had 12 points is no more factual than if bilic dropped his pride, played kipre and played Grosiki that we would have more goals ...
Your argument is starting to look a bit stretched now.
So if Kipre and Grosiki had been playing we would have let in less and scored more? It's impossible to know. I was hoping to see more game time for both. The management team get to see them in training, we don't.
GREGMT is right to point out that the chips have not fallen our way. Numerous games, decisions and events have gone against us so far.
It's just incredible people continue to gloss over the substantial negative effects of VAR/Officials on WBA's total points and position in the table.
It's almost like they want us to go down so they can say I told you Bilic would relegate us!
They talk about having rigid shape, organisation, every player knowing their job etc. Wilde has that in abundance at SU, the net result is 1 point and bottom of the table.
It's just about to get harder as Burnley's £200m takeover is at the point of completion. Shame on you Lai.
Yet Bilic does need to stop gifting his detractors sticks to beat him with.
If we get pummelled by Newcastle today, I’m using a bamboo stick!
Well let’s hope we don’t then, eh?
Too right. Given the situation Newcastle are in, today’s game is the perfect opportunity to bounce back from the thrashing we had from Palace last Sunday.
Yeah. I don't like to say 'must win', but it's a must win for me.
Take Slaven Bilić’s future out of the equation and today is still a must win, Coseley 👍🏻
If we want to stay in this league, we have to be taking all 3 points when we’ve been gifted a weakened Newcastle team.
Newcastle team not that weak!
Steve Bruce looks to victimise himself though so 2 out is the end of the world to him.
Take Slaven Bilić’s future out of the equation and today is still a must win, Coseley 👍🏻What does that even mean? Must win or what?
If we want to stay in this league, we have to be taking all 3 points when we’ve been gifted a weakened Newcastle team.
What does that even mean? Must win or what?
Can’t even believe you’re asking me that question 🤔Okay, that aside, what's the answer?
Bad officiating (it does not matter whether it's live or delivered by VAR) has obviously impacted the outcomes in some of our games but I don't think you can argue that the decisions if reversed would automatically have doubled our points total.Very well put
For instance on the penalties there is roughly a 20% chance that we fail to score. With the exception of the handball against Chelsea most of the decisions that went against us were with plenty of time remaining on the clock and we have no way of knowing how that game time plays out.
To be fair to Bilic the last coach to endure such a run of horrible decisions was Steve Clarke which is an unfortunate precedent. Bilic has yet to have a decision as bad as the one Clarke had go against him in the infamous Chelsea game (97th minute most blatant penalty dive ever) which really did cost us 2 points and a month latter Clarke was fired without much fanfare and those points would have almost certainly earned him at least an extra couple of games grace.
Maybe Bilic is just unlucky, fine fire him and hire a lucky coach. Although I think we tried that with Pardew but unfortunately he used up all his luck just by being hired.
Given the context I could quite happily back Bilic even if we finish rock bottom of the league. However those posters who are generally inclined to be supportive of him do need something a little bit more from his team. I absolutely don't want him to revert to Pulisball but there is a brittleness about the team that was also present in his West Ham team and that is worrying.
I don't want to try to save the season with another firefighting appointment and that was the worst trick Peace ever picked up and that seems to have seeped into the current ownership via Jenkins influence. Yet Bilic does need to stop gifting his detractors sticks to beat him with.
Another shocking start and shape going missing at key times , suspect subs again .
We show at times a bit of quality , if we had a manager who'd set up a bit more rigid we'd pick up more points .
If Slav goes then I hope Dowling isn’t far behind.
Why? He’s as hamstrung by lack of funds as Bilic.
He’s finished. I think they might keep him for a few games though purely so any new coach doesn’t start with such a horrendous run of games!We cried last season for a ball winner let alone this at a much harder standard , naive from Bilic .
Another mark beginning to go against him too in the eyes of the board I think. It’s hard to attribute our signings at times, but we can obviously make reasonable guesses and it seems Ivanovic, Krov and Diangana are Ones Bilic’s championed. Perhaps Grant.
You’ve now got Krov who doesn’t get a start without someone else missing, diangana benched, Ivanovic looking passed it and Grant being pulled at Half time.
If Slav goes then I hope Dowling isn’t far behind.
Why? He’s as hamstrung by lack of funds as Bilic.donkey down at Millwall need I say more?
Why? He’s as hamstrung by lack of funds as Bilic.
Bilic should stay, we are competitive in most games and several players have improved this season, several players are underperforming but that's just the way it is, lowest spenders in the division, what did anyone expect.
Our defending is shocking since day one.
He tried different systems but there was no improvement at the back.
He has to go if he can't turn things around.
Bartley, O’Shea, Ajayi, Furlong, Townsend and an ageing Ivanovich are nothing like what’s needed in the premier league.
Bilic should stay, we are competitive in most games and several players have improved this season, several players are underperforming but that's just the way it is, lowest spenders in the division, what did anyone expect.While theres some merit to this we as a side have rarely looked solid since he arrived at the club , I felt despite promotion he'd have to address this and stiffen us up a bit .
I fail to see what sacking Bilic will do. The players aren’t good enough and we’re playing with essentially the same team that crawled over the line last year. Bringing a new manager in won’t change thatsomething has to change or these players confidence will be shot to pieces, new eyes and that.
Looked a broken man at the end. A man who knew he was approaching the end.Our lack of shape is killing us week in week out at key times , Bilic has done a bit of a Mowbray trying to out football better teams than us while leaving holes behind .
You just cannot defend as poorly as we do and expect to get away with it.
More frustratingly, we have the best part of £30 million worth of players sat on our bench in the second half - the players he wanted all summer. That looks such an expensive waste when you see our other glaring weaknesses.
I fail to see what sacking Bilic will do. The players aren’t good enough and we’re playing with essentially the same team that crawled over the line last year. Bringing a new manager in won’t change that
Our lack of shape is killing us week in week out at key times , Bilic has done a bit of a Mowbray trying to out football better teams than us while leaving holes behind .
5 of our defenders nowhere for Newcastle's first , we can talk allday about whose good enough , funds , Dowling , Lai and so on but Bilic can't get the basics right .
If Slav goes then I hope Dowling isn’t far behind.
That's only true if you believe the manager has little to no influence on team performance.
Last season Chris Wilder got a very ordinary championship side to a top half premier league finish. Sometimes, coaching can make a difference.
We might not stay up making a change, but we can atleast get ourselves to a position where atleast one of our attack or defence might be able to function. It's important that we don't go down like Derby or Sunderland as we will struggle to return. We need to go down with a flourish.
I honestly think we wouldn't achieve anything changing the manager with this squad of players, you can see they are trying for him, they're just not good enough,
Honestly. who would come in with this lot and go down with that on their CV anyway.
I honestly think we wouldn't achieve anything changing the manager with this squad of players, you can see they are trying for him, they're just not good enough,The way Bilic plays just makes us so open , we simply dont have the players for it . Its like he jumped two steps too soon.
Honestly. who would come in with this lot and go down with that on their CV anyway.
He is indeed but needed to spend more wisely. The fact that we haven’t been scouring the foreign markets for signings is criminal.Doesn't always work though. Villa signed a host of foreign players last season and, but for a goal-line technology error, would have gone down.
Worried this would be the case pre season when seeing who we were signing. Said it a few times but got dismissed.I was too for questioning the Krov loan again when I could see a huge hole and limited budget .
We might as well sack Bilic. Then if the new Boss fails to get anymore than 6pts from his 12 games, we can dismiss him too.I've replied to you several times this week about shape and discipline as a way to work around limited players.
Our club is taking on VAR/Officials as well as the Opposition.
We will get 0 pts from the next 3 anyway, so I'd rather another individual get tarnished with that, so the moaning can start against them too.
Jeremy Peace has screwed this club selling to Lai, who's operating it in the same way.
I've replied to you several times this week about shape and discipline as a way to work around limited players.
I hope you were watching that first goal , thats pure bad tactics and a reflection of what must be going on or not on the training field .
No Var , No Dowling , No Lai , No Townsend hitting the bar at Fulham with a awful cross .
I was too for questioning the Krov loan again when I could see a huge hole and limited budget .I didn't mind any of the loan signings returning .. problem was that was simply keeping the squad we already had. Needed to bring them in and add 3/4 quality players on top of that.
I didn't mind any of the loan signings returning .. problem was that was simply keeping the squad we already had. Need to bring them in and add 3/4 quality players on top of that.
Professional football players need coaching not to concede within 26 seconds from their own kick off?Answered your own question , go watch it again and look at how they are lined up from the middle to the back.
Think he’s going to get the chop, feel for the guy he’s been handed an awful team & not been backed by the board who are a disgrace. no-ones keeping this team up we need to look ahead and pick someone who can get us back up next year, I don’t trust the higher ups at the club to make the right decision.
Answered your own question , go watch it again and look at how they are lined up from the middle to the back.
Think he’s going to get the chop, feel for the guy he’s been handed an awful team & not been backed by the board who are a disgrace. no-ones keeping this team up we need to look ahead and pick someone who can get us back up next year, I don’t trust the higher ups at the club to make the right decision.
Been backed mate got pretty much every target bar the keeper that went to Spain.
People can say he’s not been backed all they like it’s Slavs own players can’t get a tune from.
Right, so Bilic told them to line up like idiots when in possession from kick off? The players have to take responsibility for that shambles. I don't care if Barry Fry is the manager and we spend all week in training in clown costumes. We still can't be conceding after 26 seconds from our own kick off.Who sets them out in training across the week with regards to the next game , system and tweaks ? Do the players do that themselves then ? .
Which is exactly what Bilic told the board and led to their falling out.Didn't Bilic say he wanted to give the lads from last year a chance and push for Krov, Pereira and Grady?
Who sets them out in training across the week with regards to the next game , system and tweaks ? Do the players do that themselves then ? .
Bilic sides don't defend well , that was my gut feeling last season and its come clear now .I think back to Pulis lumping Bilics West Ham 4 2 in what was one of the worst top flight defending show I've seen , I hoped he'd learn from that .
I'm not saying that the team doesn't lack organisation. I'm just saying that to concede within 26 seconds from your own kick off is so inept that the players have to take the responsibility for that one.Id agree to a part they should know better but look at Phillips and who put him at LWB . Basics missing all over , gets worse each time its shown that first goal.
Id agree to a part they should know better but look at Phillips and who put him at LWB . Basics missing all over , gets worse each time its shown that first goal.With Gibbs clearly fit it is unforgivable,
With Gibbs clearly fit it is unforgivable,I'm no Gibbs fan but I take your point especially puttjng a right footed winger there who doesn't play that much anyway.
I'm not saying that the team doesn't lack organisation. I'm just saying that to concede within 26 seconds from your own kick off is so inept that the players have to take the responsibility for that one.
Indeed they do - but that issue alone should not deflect from a side who are showing all the hallmarks of being appallingly coached.
I’d suggest it’s a side who show all the hallmarks of not being good enough.
Their goal started with a ball from Ajayi straight to one of their players whilst under no pressure whatsoever.
Do you think Bilic needs to coach a so called premier league player in how to pass a ball?
Premier league games aren't contested by two sides who each get 100% pass completion. There will be multiple misplaced passes a game. As poor as it is from Ajayi, You can't just crumble afterwards.
I’d suggest it’s a side who show all the hallmarks of not being good enough.
Their goal started with a ball from Ajayi straight to one of their players whilst under no pressure whatsoever.
Do you think Bilic needs to coach a so called premier league player in how to pass a ball?
Yes but we misplace more passes than any other team in the league due to the fact that they are all better than us.
There are some players who are not good enough for this level and some who will make mistakes - that cannot be prevented but it is prevalent in all sides of this division and not solely restricted to ourselves.
Ivanovic should have dealt with the original long ball and O’Shea should have reacted quicker to the danger when we were so exposed.
However, there are some fundamentals within this side which are poor and reflect their work on the training field. Defensive press, defensive position, spaces between defence and midfield, the shifting across of our midfielders and defenders, the prevention of space etc. Those are not as a result of poor quality - it’s a result of poor coaching.
Throw in our haphazard transfer window where Bilic has seemingly changed approach which means we now have footballers with no tactical fit in this side. Unfortunately that was the whole of our transfer budget.
We also seem to have bomb squad roulette whereby we have players who are frozen out and then suddenly appear from the cold. Today we’ve seen four of the bomb squad feature. Bartley thrown out into the cold. Diangana seems to have fallen into the squad and released Phillips from the shackles.
There is no joined up thinking from our recruitment, our training, our team selection and performances.
Bilic is not solely liable for everything that goes wrong - but he’s a contributing factor to the issues we currently have.
So we need to be coached well for a number of reasons. Firstly so that players are on the same wave length to mitigate the lack of ability, secondly so that invariably when things go wrong we can make things as difficult for the opposition as possible.
We don't do that.
I tend to agree with those who think that we will be unable to replace Bilic with someone capable of keeping us up. We should however, be able to find someone who can improve our shocking defence with structure and coaching. Someone who can identify his best team and system to suit . Bilic's random team selections and shocking in-game management will surely damage the confidence and application of our players further. Many of us are accepting that we are on our way back to the Championship next season, and most think that we will go down with the basis of a very good team for that level, raring to get back to the Premier League. We need to get our better players performing to a level where they actually believe that they can come back ready next time irrespective of results. The players are not good enough but they can be better.
SGM's first team in the Premier League were poor but they achieved 24 points. Under Bilic as these players confidence and performances drop we will not get near that.
We need to make a change.
Whilst I agree with most of your post, our defence is a shambles and that ain't down to the organisation... its purely because they are just rubbish defenders. All the coaching in the world ain't going to improve them.
The best thing for Albion to do is nothing.
If we get rid of Bilic who replaces him ? I've heard some say Eddie Howe, but he left Bournemouth because he didn't want to manage in the Championship. So no way will he come to us. Then the other options are championship managers untried in the premier or experienced over the hill quick fixes like Allardyce. Again 2 risky options. Which we tried before with Pardew !!!
If we stick with Bilic and the players we have, some which are on long contracts, then come again in the Championship next season. Players like Diangana, Periera, Robinson and Grant will be excellent in the Championship. Add to that youngsters like O'shea and Edwards who will only get better. Then just replace the older players like Livermore and Phillips. It would also be good if we could get Gallagher permanently but I don't know if Chelsea would sell him.
We could quite easily win the Championship and when we get back to the premier we will be a stronger team. The team would have a season of playing together and winning which breeds confidence.
No matter what we do this season, I think we are down.
This is what Norwich did. So its no surprise that they are already 3 point clear at the top of the Championship.
When they do come up they will perform better next season.
Really do fear that this is true. Any suggestions?
The board should have done a Norwich and protected Bilic and the players more and said we can't afford to be where we got promoted too this season so we will take the money and do what we can.
Instead they hung everyone out to dry by saying they were going to make a real go of staying up with a 25m budget signing players he doesn't want in hope of making a profit down the line and selling players behind his back.
For the above I have real sympathy for Bilic still doesn't explain or excuse his self-destructive management though.
The best thing for Albion to do is nothing.
If we get rid of Bilic who replaces him ? I've heard some say Eddie Howe, but he left Bournemouth because he didn't want to manage in the Championship. So no way will he come to us. Then the other options are championship managers untried in the premier or experienced over the hill quick fixes like Allardyce. Again 2 risky options. Which we tried before with Pardew !!!
If we stick with Bilic and the players we have, some which are on long contracts, then come again in the Championship next season. Players like Diangana, Periera, Robinson and Grant will be excellent in the Championship. Add to that youngsters like O'shea and Edwards who will only get better. Then just replace the older players like Livermore and Phillips. It would also be good if we could get Gallagher permanently but I don't know if Chelsea would sell him.
We could quite easily win the Championship and when we get back to the premier we will be a stronger team. The team would have a season of playing together and winning which breeds confidence.
No matter what we do this season, I think we are down.
This is what Norwich did. So its no surprise that they are already 3 point clear at the top of the Championship.
When they do come up they will perform better next season.
Mark Jenkins knew exactly what was planned and made sure he was out the exit door before it turned nasty.
Bilic won’t be here next season regardless though, so is it not better to start planning now with a manager who will be? Sleepwalking in to a relegation and then wasting some of the Summer looking for a new manager wont be a good thing
Whilst I agree with most of your post, our defence is a shambles and that ain't down to the organisation... its purely because they are just rubbish defenders. All the coaching in the world ain't going to improve them.Well I think Ivanovic's inclusion and playing three at the back is a disaster, and forcing Dara, our most inexperienced CB to play on the left is irresponsible management. We have yet to see Kipre at this level, so there are options. Playing Phillips at left wing-back with Gibbs sitting on the bench, is criminal.
Yep. Very ominous sign that was. They shifted the flak from themselves onto the playing and coaching staff in my view.
Has he been sacked yet?
Think Jenkins retiring was more to do with a future ownership than day to day tactics.
I would absolutely keep Slaven. I'd even go so far as to give the bloke a contract extension and commit to keeping him in place for when we go down.
The thread about the players out of contract is telling. We'll have a big rebuild on our hands and it will be focused around the defensive unit. The attacking unit is mostly there. We'll be much better equipped that way.
The only, only things I can really bring myself to be grumpy about today is a) not playing Gibbs and b) subbing of Gallagher.
Extending Bilić’s contract is most definitely not the answer, Jim.
Sorry I'm not getting at what you are saying, Jenkins left so he can return under a new owner in the future? I might be being daft and missing the point completely unintentionally
Extending Bilić’s contract is most definitely not the answer, Jim.
I don't want Billic to go unless someone special has been lined up. And the chances of that happening are pretty remote as any bright ambitious managers will want to steer clear. So we will be left with the unemployed journeymen and lower division managers who have proved little and without much idea about the Premier league.
I agree that some of Billic's sub choices are puzzling (Gallagher coming off today), but I don't think he has lost the dressing room, and they look like they are playing for him most of the time. This is largely Billic's team. You have to ask, are Pereira and Krovinovic going to start playing better because some other upgraded lower division coach starts screaming in their ear?
I'm still enjoying watching us play for large spells, including today, which is more than can be said for watching previous managers. Its going to be a struggle right through this season, but you never know, we might start getting a bit of luck, which will hopefully build confidence through the team. A couple of good results could do wonders, and good results can, like today, be a matter of fine margins.
I don’t know why so many want us to go down with Bilic. He won’t suddenly become a better manager in the championship. For over half the championship season we were poor and the problems people are now seeing were foreseeable even then.
Obviously if we go down he will get better results, but that will be because we have a talent advantage again.
[quote author=LiamTheBaggie link=topic=23428.msg755833Have said this a few times....there is no rhyme or reason, he was doing some very strange things last season....today kipre on the bench, Austin getting game time..
We also seem to have bomb squad roulette whereby we have players who are frozen out and then suddenly appear from the cold. Today we’ve seen four of the bomb squad feature. Bartley thrown out into the cold. Diangana seems to have fallen into the squad and released Phillips from the shackles.
Bartley was injured, hence his omission.
Have said this a few times....there is no rhyme or reason, he was doing some very strange things last season....today kipre on the bench, Austin getting game time..
It's not a surprise he has been making changes as we have not been getting results.He has making very strange decisions for over a year ...
We also seem to have bomb squad roulette whereby we have players who are frozen out and then suddenly appear from the cold. Today we’ve seen four of the bomb squad feature. Bartley thrown out into the cold. Diangana seems to have fallen into the squad and released Phillips from the shackles.
The other reason I’m on the fence is that it’s only a good decision to replace Slaven if we have a better replacement. In the end that’s the main point isn’t it. Do a Pardew and it becomes a terrible decision. Do a Hodgson and it becomes a great decision.
Exactly that for me. Unless they've got a fantastic solution, there's no point replacing SB.
I'm intrigued as to who you think might be a good replacement, Frazzle... in the interests of abiding by forum rules, care to inbox me?
Sent. Will be interesting if you think it’s a decent idea or not.
Sent. Will be interesting if you think it’s a decent idea or not.
I think there are about four or five teams at bottom of prem that could go down, so my question is why should we trust Slaven to keep us up? One win in 16 games would get any coach fired, leaking goals for fun would ask questions about coaches at his disposal. He's best 11, formation are all signs that something is wrong.
If majority are happy fot Bilic to stay do they honestly believe that he will keep us up.
.
Bilic and the board should be talking as to what happens next, if neither party wants to work with the other next season, then get rid now, otherwise extend the contract for another year to 18 months and try and get continuity.
Bilic it looks like will be in charge of Man City game its been reported, so board still believe. Think this will go the way of cluelesses reign embarrassing the coach to resign or leave on mutual consent.
I see the point for half a season / last year is still been bandied about, the facts say different.That's a good question but don't think you will get too many answers. Overall a good balanced post, most of which I agree with, but I feel you are swimming against the tide at the moment. Every single time when results don't go our way there is a clamour to sack the manager because the players aren't playing for him/the system is wrong/ he has the wrong tactics/he picks the wrong players (pick and choose from any selection of these). Then the next manager gets appointed and everyone makes the (very valid) point that he has to be given time to build his own team. Everyone acknowledges (correctly) that this will take 2 or 3 years given our budget restrictions. Then, as soon as results drop away, the manager is to blame because the players aren't playing for him/the system is wrong/he has the wrong tactics/he picks the wrong players and we start the process all over again. If you think I'm over stating this, just take a few minutes/hours to go back to the threads of previous managers and you will see what I am getting at. Exactly the same moans as are now being directed at Bilic were made about every single one of our previous managers at some point in their tenures, sometimes by the same people that are moaning still. Unless results and performances are through the floor (and I'm thinking Pardew bad) at some point we need to give someone their 3 years and then re-assess how much progress or otherwise we have made. We have to show some loyalty. We have to be patient. We have to understand that sometimes things go on behind the scenes that we don't know about. We have to stick instead of constantly twisting. But we probably won't.
Before the last game against Swansea going into lockdown, we were top of the league, going into lockdown we dropped to second, if thats a disaster, i would love to know what a good season is.
After lockdown we wasnt great but we still got 12 points from 27 and got the job done.
Genuine question, where do Albion fans think we should be?
Out our entire squad we have the following premier league ex regulars - Kieran Gibbs, Hal Robson Kanu (Who was mainly sub in the Pulis years), Matt Phillips and Jake Livermore, all players using this forum as a guide who are in the top players called for to be dropped.
Grosicki (15), Furlong (3), Diangana (15), Bartley (20 spread over six years) are the others, and a number of those were sub appearances, So there is little evidence that we have players already good enough to play in the premier league.
When we went up we had to give a number of players the chance to show they could step up, because we dont pay massive wages and we had a small budget anyway so we wasnt going to attract top flight players as a newly promoted club.
The players who have been better are the ones who we thought would struggle - Johnstone, Townsend, Furlong and Robinson to an extent, Ajayi has been okay too.
The ones who stood out last year and we thought were going to be our key players - Pereira and Diangana, havent really got going yet, i think O'Shea has struggled too.
It was always going to be like that, compare our squads with others around us and we are about where we should be, even Fulham have players like Mitrovic (although not having a good season so far) Harrison Reed, Lemina, Tom Cairney, Lookman, Loftus Cheek, Anguissa, all players who would walk into our team and they are currently one point better off than us.
Sheffield United, Burnley both known for their organised approach both conceded loads of goals, Brighton known for their passing style, conceded loads of goals, and all of them are right down there with us, all been in the premier league longer than us, yet i dont see much calls for their managers to be sacked? They have credits in the bank which surely Bilic should have after his one task last season was to get promoted which he did.
Identities, playing styles, etc are great and of course you have to have them, but ultimately if you dont have the players good enough, most of the time you will get found out against teams who have better players than you, all you can do is use your 'identity' to try and make yourself competitive and on that basis where we are is about right.
Of course Bilic makes mistakes but whoever we get in next should he go will too, we will all think he should do things different, but going on the players we have, they will probably be about the same sort of position, we can gamble, get someone in, but then we have to stop talking about long term vision and plans because it goes out the window, we would be a revolving door club like a Watford and if thats our approach then so be it, but from fans and board alike, lets not hear terms like 'vision 'project' 'plan for the future' when its clearly a load of rubbish if you sack managers every time you have a bad spell.
If i was in charge i would do things different to Bilic, but everyone on this forum would probably disagree, but if we do sack Bilic, will the next manager also will be given 8-10 games before people judge him in this league and if they dont like what they see and where we are, they will want him sacked? Because its the same situation, Bilic has a very unproven premier league squad to work with, some want him gone after 11 games (some did after 3) so whoever comes in next i assume they will be judged on the same critieria, and we cant say its based on last season too as Bilic got us promoted!
Bilic and the board should be talking as to what happens next, if neither party wants to work with the other next season, then get rid now, otherwise extend the contract for another year to 18 months and try and get continuity.
Run his contract down then replace him. That is the best thing to do.Not sure it is , performances are getting worse.
No point replacing him now with impossible fixtures looming and practically no money to spend in January not to mention possible take over talks in the background.
Just write off this season and restructure.
If they sack him today then who will be caretaker to take that game.? Would be really unfair to let the U23 coach get a battering from City.That’s the case for the next month whoever comes in will hardly have any chance to work with the players it’s a case of play ,rest ,recover , rinse and repeat for the next month or so now . If they were going to pull the trigger it should have been done before the last international break giving themselves a fortnight to get the replacement in
I am going to say Bilic has to stay, we aye going to stay up with this team and that would be the same for any new manager coming in, if Bilic dont get the support he needs in the transfer window he may walk but he should not be sacked by a incompetent owner.
Not sure it is , performances are getting worse.
Joe Chapman TwwetedNot unusual. Normal protocol before a match
Albion have arranged a conference, with Slaven Bilic, on Monday ahead of the Man City game on Tuesday
Joe Chapman Twwetedprobably get dreaded vote of confidence or the bullet.
Albion have arranged a conference, with Slaven Bilic, on Monday ahead of the Man City game on Tuesday
Just to add, i do expect Bilic to be gone very soon, probably some statement about mutual consent.make some good points but those coaches mentioned had backing of respective boards when it came to recruitment. I would now be in favour of getting in someone on short term basis with prem experience at bottom of league and not big Sam. Super Kev would be in favour of this coach.
I wont be devastated if he goes but i would like him to stay because i think he deserves time but also i dont like where it means we are going as a club, keep changing managers every couple of years.
Clubs sometimes have to be patient, a couple of years ago Villa appointed Dean Smith, we beat them in the february and a number of their fans had turned, they stuck with him and got promoted. Last season before lockdown they were looking certainties to go down, again the fans had turned (and they had spent a lot of money) but the board remained calm and yes they had some luck but they are now top half of the premier league.
Southampton stuck with Hassenhuttl after some poor results then losing 9-0 to Leicester last year, fans wanted him gone, they stuck with him and look at them now. Norwich stuck with Farke after getting relegated, again fans wanted him gone, but they are top of the league.
Sometimes you have to remain calm, ride the storm and maybe take one step back to take two forward (ie - Norwich) we have lowered the age of the squad and have some valuable youngsters and are not adrift in this league, all those things Bilic has played a big part in.
In the summer we can lose some big earners and it would be nice for a manager to still be here to then really put his mark on the squad, we cant expect things to change if we keep doing the same thing which is changing managers too often.
I don’t think anyone thinks a new manager can wave a magic wand and keep us up but he may at least organise us and make us hard to beat
I don’t think anyone thinks a new manager can wave a magic wand and keep us up but he may at least organise us and make us hard to beatI would think there would be a few possibles looking over the players we have and thinking, "Hmmm, I reckon I could do something more solid with those players"
I wonder if the Sheff Utd fans are calling for Wilders head?Some are, some aren't, no different to us. All football fans are the same. Some Liveeerrrpooool fans will be calling for Klopp's head by 7 bell at this rate.
I wonder if the Sheff Utd fans are calling for Wilders head?I couldn't give a flying what Sheffield United, their fans, the manager or the board are doing! I'm only interested in what's happening at our club.
I remember when our fans used to be held in high regard for being more sensible than most and we used to laugh at wolves and villa fans for being hysterical. Those times are long gone.
I don't see any hysteria just people pointing out the obvious flaws with Bilic. Not one of the diehard Bilic backers has said that there are things he can do to improve the team. He can make a few improvements at least by being a better manager. Whether they keep us up or not is not what we are saying.Do you even read other peoples' posts before you spout off stuff like this? There are a few excellent examples of balanced opinions just on this page, let alone the previous 20 or so. We can all see the flaws and mistakes, but that would be the case with all human beings, let alone football managers.
I don't see any hysteria just people pointing out the obvious flaws with Bilic. Not one of the diehard Bilic backers has said that there are things he can do to improve the team. He can make a few improvements at least by being a better manager. Whether they keep us up or not is not what we are saying.
If the posts exist they are few and far between they are lost in the mass of posts saying nothing can be improved so stick with Bilic.
I'll respond to the general vibe I'm getting unless I quote someone in which case I will use the quote function. Hopefully clears up any misunderstanding for you.
If the posts exist they are few and far between they are lost in the mass of posts saying nothing can be improved so stick with Bilic.Quite the opposite. There are many recent posts that are well reasoned and eloquent in support of retaining Bilic. You may not agree with them, which is fine, but it adds nothing to the debate to make inaccurate and sweeping generalisations like the one highlighted and a few other examples in your recent postings.
I'll respond to the general vibe I'm getting unless I quote someone in which case I will use the quote function. Hopefully clears up any misunderstanding for you.
Quite the opposite. There are many recent posts that are well reasoned and eloquent in support of retaining Bilic. You may not agree with them, which is fine, but it adds nothing to the debate to make inaccurate and sweeping generalisations like the one highlighted and a few other examples in your recent postings.
New article just up about Bilic on the Athletic which is a decent read whichever side of the fence you are on.
In essence they say it's better to give him a new extended contract or sack him. In or out. Letting him just run till the end of the season and then everyone parting free of charge would be the worst of the 3 options and that i do agree with. It does say that the club have little appetite for opening talks with him which we all knew anyway.
He won’t keep us up, nor will he get us promoted again. Sack him.
Nice prediction.
Whether you support him or not, is it worth the little cash we have to pay him and his entourage severance and then cast around engage another manager in a panic? A new manager who has to find a system with players that Bilic has in some part an influence over signing. We're going down; let's run down his contract and - just for a change - do some long term thinking about next season.
Every year the Championship gets harder and much more competitive.
As much as I understand most of what you say, I would dearly like to hear who your replacement would be. Obviously you can’t say, due to site rules, but maybe we can work it out after, say, 5 questions. 1st Question. Is it you?😁Or you could PM 8)
The last thing we want to do is end up back there straight away.Especially not with a manager in place who has a proven record of getting us promoted at the first attempt. Oh, hold on a minute...............
Especially not with a manager in place who has a proven record of getting us promoted at the first attempt. Oh, hold on a minute...............
The reading on this thread is very interesting.
Even those of you I dont agree with fully still have an element to their opinion that I agree with.
The manager argument we have to look at from many angles.
Billic took a side that most of us wouldn't have fancied for top spot having lost Rodriguez and gayle to automatic promotion. He went against wba policy of recent years and signed younger hungrier players such as furlong ajayi. He brought in some talent from overseas in periera and krovonovic.
Latest statistic is that we have won 4 of our last 48 Premier League games.
Absolutely shocking.
Statistically then does that show that Bilic has won a quarter of those, in 12 game therefore is no better nor worse than all of the others. Of course this does not take into account the relative differences in spending, comparative squad values, increasingly and more obvious corrupt/inadequate officialdom etc. nor does it account for intangibles such as how close to extra goals we might or might not have scored or just pure bad luck. Not saying it is good or yet bad, just Lies Damned lies and Statistics (Churchill I think, but certainly not my original)
Short of a miracle tomorrow I expect him to be gone Wednesday. Hopefully the search for his replacement has started.
Look to Norwich re continuity. I don't see why we should not do the same. They were out of their depth last season as we are now. They left things in place and look like returning to the premier league next season when , hopefully for them, they are better placed to make a fist of it. What is wrong with that strategy??
Short of a miracle tomorrow I expect him to be gone Wednesday. Hopefully the search for his replacement has started.Some posters on here have been expecting him to be gone very soon since the middle of last season. The number of prophets predicting his demise has increased dramatically since about 4 games into this season. Eventually one of you will be right I guess.
Short of a miracle tomorrow I expect him to be gone Wednesday. Hopefully the search for his replacement has started.
No search needed. Leave it to me I have the right man in mind. 😎.They sacked Pulis after Chelsea when he should have gone after Huddersfield
I dont see why a defeat at Man City would convince our powers that be that they need to be rid of Slav. No one expects us to get anything surely?
Some posters on here have been expecting him to be gone very soon since the middle of last season. The number of prophets predicting his demise has increased dramatically since about 4 games into this season. Eventually one of you will be right I guess.
Dress it up any way you like but the Fact is 4 wins in 48 Premier League games, regardless of who the manager is/was/will be.
It's a sad reflection of us as a club in my opinion.
An infrequent poster, I would not claim to be in the know living in Texas.
They sacked Pulis after Chelsea when he should have gone after Huddersfield
Huddersfield away, wow, what a new low that was! Saying that, the reverse fixture at the Hawthorn’s was probably the worst home game I was at that season. Especially when that ex-dingle Van La Parra popped up with a goal. What a miserable Saturday afternoon that was ☹ï¸
Don’t understand to this day why the club didn’t sack TP after Huddersfield away. The booing from our travelling fans said it all.
it was an even more gutless performance than Southampton away (and that was rank!).
The fact that Huddersfield played the last 30 mins or so with 10 men and we still didn't lay a glove on them was enough for me.
They will go straight back down again.
That bloody Van La Parra scored in that fixture too. Foster beaten from outside the box and then as you said the Terriers were reduced to 10 men straight afterwards.
I remember listening to the game on WM and the phone-in with Franksy afterwards was painful to listen to. If I remember 2,500 - 3,000 of our fans traveled all the way to West Yorkshire for that disgraceful performance.
I do remember Southampton away being utterly **** too.
Sadly I was one of them (although my journey was shorter!). I travelled across fully expecting us to get the 3 points, thinking surely we can't be as bad as were were against Southampton, boy was I wrong!
Sadly I was one of them (although my journey was shorter!). I travelled across fully expecting us to get the 3 points, thinking surely we can't be as bad as were were against Southampton, boy was I wrong!
I went to both. The first half at Southampton represented a new low for me that season. And then along came the Huddersfield game. Despite them being down to ten men I don't think we had a shot on target until time added on.
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/12/14/no-contract-talks-between-slaven-bilic-and-west-brom/
I should think not. Would be absolute insanity.
I think the board should just let it be known that his contract will not be renewed, thus saving on severance for him and his team. We must have spent fortunes on this over the years.
The board must then do nothing and leave well alone and we hope that we get properly taken over by somebody that can develop the team and get a manager in and back him to the hilt.
I wish we could right this season off and erase it from our history. Sadly it wont happen
I think the board should just let it be known that his contract will not be renewed, thus saving on severance for him and his team. We must have spent fortunes on this over the years.
The board must then do nothing and leave well alone and we hope that we get properly taken over by somebody that can develop the team and get a manager in and back him to the hilt.
I wish we could right this season off and erase it from our history. Sadly it wont happen
If the Villa game is the be all and end all, and if we lose some of the anti-Bilic brigade want him gone, will they give him some credit and breathing space if we win?
What do you reckon Atomic, gone after the Villa game should we get a spanking?
WAs chatting to a West Ham fan last night randomly on Twitter and he said everything we are seeing now with Bilic, the wacky calls, baffling lineups, terrible subs, lack of fitness, lack of discipline, general can't be arsed attitude etc is excactly the same as what Bilic did at WHU when Bilic felt he wasn't being backed there as well. What an odd bloke.They weren't. Generally, West Ham fans remember Bilic quite fondly. He gave them a lot of good memories. Here are a few from his wiki page:
They were glad to be rid of him.
My missus lives in chelmsford and the local pub by her is a west ham pub and full of their fans.
They absolutely love Bilic, they said they would have him back tomorrow, they said as a rule the Golds and Sullivans stick with managers through tough spells, the one manager the fans wanted them to stick with and they didnt was Bilic.
Albion have become a lot of their second teams because of Slav, the night we lost to Huddersfield end of last season they brought me beers all night and cheered me up and said Slav would do it, and he did!
Thats completely different to what was going on in the thread from last night. They loved him indeed but he had lost the plot by the end they said. As a person they still like him to this day but as a manager they dont want him back. Appreciate you provided an alternative viewpoint.I don't know where you get this from. I know 6 West Ham fans and to a man (and one woman) they think the club were wrong to sack him and that the decision was very harsh. Each and every one of them would be glad to have him back.
I don't know where you get this from. I know 6 West Ham fans and to a man (and one woman) they think the club were wrong to sack him and that the decision was very harsh. Each and every one of them would be glad to have him back.
I don't know where you get this from. I know 6 West Ham fans and to a man (and one woman) they think the club were wrong to sack him and that the decision was very harsh. Each and every one of them would be glad to have him back.the difference in opinion between an online fans forum and an actual fanbase. I doubt we represent the consensus of all Albion fans, if we were we’d have had a new manager every month for the past decade.
I'm saying in the conversation i/we/them had last night. I'm not saying you are lying or wrong.I realise that. I wasn't taking it personally. But I think that the one person you were chatting with last night is very much the exception, that's all I was saying.
Exactly, some people still want Darren Moore back because he's a nice bloke.Blimey, I don't think that's right. You must mix in some strange circles, as I have never met an Albion fan (on here or in the flesh) who has made that argument. ;D
I realise that. I wasn't taking it personally. But I think that the one person you were chatting with last night is very much the exception, that's all I was saying.
Blimey, I don't think that's right. You must mix in some strange circles, as I have never met an Albion fan (on here or in the flesh) who has made that argument. ;D
Fair enough!I mean, he was a little bit, but I haven't seen any clamour to have him back as manager.
Must be me then because it's complete madness to me, they think he was harshly done by :o
Well, that is what you have written today
.........and this was what you wrote back in January
Albion Matchday Forum / Re: After Match Debate
« on: January 28, 2020, 09:53:20 PM »
Bilic will be gone soon.
In between, you have constantly been on Bilic' back, and made countless predictions that he will be sacked or will resign in the near future. Never fear, one day you will be right, and will no doubt be on here saying I told you so. ::)
Please put in as much effort against the SealsAll we ask , its like night and day against the non top 6 teams. Why ?
All we ask , its like night and day against the non top 6 teams. Why ?I think we set up to defend throughout the team against the top teams. We need to do the same against all of the opposition at this level.
I think we set up to defend throughout the team against the top teams. We need to do the same against all of the opposition at this level.
No we dont or at least not with 5 at the back.But for me the first thing to do is to be strong at the back. If we get the defence right we are far less likely to lose and always have a chance on the break. There aren’t any sides in this division that we can turn over with an attacking line up.
No we dont or at least not with 5 at the back.
Very much so Gaz. We always hear things like "every game in the prem is a tough game"...just a shame our perfomances drop against teams around us. We usually let teams in with shocking defending. If we went into every game with the intention of defending for our lives, we might be a bit better off.
We are so light up front though. Its alright keeping the goals out but if we don't score we won't win games. Might be worth giving Austin a start. Grant should have scored to be honest.
Even so though...today feels like a win.
COYB!
Big Sam in apparently
The only thing I can think of is that the club have a buyer at the end of the season and they're rolling the dice to see if we can sneak 4th bottom. Nothing else makes sense at this point.
Big Sam in apparently
It’s bad enough if he gets sacked but if Allardyce is the replacement then it will really suck what’s left of my love for the club out of me. No club should have Pulis and Allardyce.
Fingers crossed.
You want him in?
What?!? That cannot be true!
The way he said he didn't care about his future - may be he knew something.
With Allardyce in our fitness, discipline, work rate would improve no end i am 100% confident of that. It would be uglier to watch but if it got results then fair enough.And people moaned when that was Pulis ..... ?
Just seems strange to sack Bilic NOW, Bilic has been pratting about for 6 games and now he's gone sensible and got a result they want rid? At least give him the Villa game to see if he goes back to being bonkers.
Great point tonight and an organised hard working performance. Our performances this season against the elites sides have been fantastic. We almost beat Chelsea, got robbed at Man Utd, held Spurs and have now held City.
And people moaned when that was Pulis ..... ?
We need to stay up and at the moment I would have more confidence in Allardyce than Bilic when it comes to achieving that aim.
To sack Slaven and bring in Allardyce of all people would be insanity of the first order. Hopefully it's just typical Talksport nonsense. They are wind up merchants most of the time.
The board would have thought we'd get tonked tonight, now they will look very very stupid and be rightly criticised as Bilic just bought himself the Villa, Liverpool and Leeds games at the least and 4-6 points in those buys him longer.
After the high that draw will bring the board would very naive to do this now. It will kill the club. They may not care due to no fans being in the ground.
We lost 1-0 to Spurs mate, sorry to flag that but i agree with your point in general.
To sack Slaven and bring in Allardyce of all people would be insanity of the first order. Hopefully it's just typical Talksport nonsense. They are wind up merchants most of the time.
From John Percy article
Allardyce or Nigel Pearson are the 2 favourites, no decision made.
Board felt Bilic time was up and as we all know relationship between Bilic and board is dead in the water.
IF the players knew about this and they put that performance in as a way of making a point, you've got to question their attitude at this point?
Or perhaps i am reading to much into it.
The timing of all this is strange, especially as this could have been done a few weeks ago?
They have made a serious balls up - they’ve kept bilic on because they expected us to get a tonking tonight and this would be the ideal time to sack him. They’re stuck on a rock because he’s pulled a miracle from the bag and cocked up their plans.
If they don’t want him, they need to act. This constant merry go round of briefing is seriously unhelpful
Still the chance the board will take stock after tonight and change course. Never say never.
TO sack him and not have someone to replace him would be even more insane but i wouldnt put it past the lovely people in charge
I dunno, to me its just one of many neverending awful things our board has done and i'm still here.
We are all still going to be here. You don't just stop being an Albion fan.
We'll still be here when the current board have gone, shame on them in so many ways.
The whole leaking of this story minutes after a valiant performance just shows what a bunch of snivelling toe rags we have running the club at the moment. Regardless of people's opinions on the dismissal, Slav deserves more respect than this.
It might be Billic's people that have leaked it ???
Well Partisan would get his wish but potentially would be positing away on an empty forum as the majority of us will have thrown the towel in completely.
What ridiculous timing, we can't even get the basics right. They clearly expected we would be hammered tonight and so briefed the press of their plans, only for it to back fire. I get why we are planning to make a change, but to do it in this way? What a mess.As much as I was surprised, and chuffed, to get a point away at one of the elite clubs tonight, the powers to be look further back. A workforce, digging in occasionally, shouldn’t sway a decision that has already been made.
The players put in everything for him tonight. This isn't the way to make a change.
Lai, Dowling, clowns.
As much as I was surprised, and chuffed, to get a point away at one of the elite clubs tonight, the powers to be look further back. A workforce, digging in occasionally, shouldn’t sway a decision that has already been made.
This is true, moving emotions from the result aside Bilic has not helped himself tactically and when you look at his record over 12 months it is poor. The board have also screwed him over royally though, BIG TIME. He could have reacted better himself in turn. What a mess.
Why not do this Saturday night, Sunday or Monday? That’s what I don’t understand Gaz.
Why not do this Saturday night, Sunday or Monday? That’s what I don’t understand Gaz.There are usually legal reasons why any decision is made. We’ll never know.
Guessing they just assumed he was going to mess it up tonight and chances are even if he didnt we would normally lose, they are our bogey team after all. Now it looks mad. Give him Villa, if he goes back to squares in round holes we know he doesnt want to be here. If he gets it right and stays sensible going forward we will be ok
There are usually legal reasons why any decision is made. We’ll never know.
What the hell is going on, ive got up this morning to the news Slaven could be sacked today. Have they got a magician lined up for the next manager, who could do any better with this group of players. This is Slavs team and he needs time to build on it, especially after last night he has shown he can get a result from this team.
How long do you give Slav though? We’ve been awful for the whole of 2020 across two seasons and two leagues.I agree we have been awfully at times, I just think we are in transition and Slav needs more time to build. Do you think he would be in this position if he was given 3 or 4 premier quality players at the start of the season, which is what we needed. I worry more on who the next manager may be.
Joe Masi confirmed last night that the clubs briefing last night happened whilst Bilic was conducting his post match interviews. Masi put up an emotional defence of Bilic last night.
Appalling treatment of the man regardless of the merits of his sacking.
This club (the board) reminds me of my hometown club, Hajduk Split. Enough said. If Slaven get sacked I'm out of here, no more stream searching for Albion games, no more hope to getting on one of Albion games to the "island". So sad. Board down!
This board has sucked my love of football out of me, I find myself not even bothered about Sunday’s game
This board has sucked my love of football out of me, I find myself not even bothered about Sunday’s game
I'm not anti-Bilic really, but if they'd buried either of those 2 free headers in the last 10 mins, no-one would be saying much about our performance, just trotting out the old cliches about getting set further and further back in defenceYou could also say that if we rightfully get thr penalty at Man Utd score it we may well not even be having this debate. Fact is they did have those chances Johnstone did save them and earned us a point from a performance that should put to bed any rumours that say SB had lost the dressing room. It was to a performance that will make it doubly difficult for any incoming manager this in a perverse way make it more difficult to stay up because if the sacking happens the players could well sulk for long enough to make avoiding relegation almost impossible
You could also say that if we rightfully get thr penalty at Man Utd score it we may well not even be having this debate. Fact is they did have those chances Johnstone did save them and earned us a point from a performance that should put to bed any rumours that say SB had lost the dressing room. It was to a performance that will make it doubly difficult for any incoming manager this in a perverse way make it more difficult to stay up because if the sacking happens the players could well sulk for long enough to make avoiding relegation almost impossibleYou could be right, this is very much his squad now.
awful awful awful just awful.
Thank you Slav for restoring my pride in the Albion.
Saying he has now been sacked.
Uproar coming, can see a few protests
Doubt it Albion fans are the most placcid in the land.
Doubt it Albion fans are the most placcid in the land.
Even though I felt his time here was up and he definitely did not help himself as of late he was undeniably screwed over by the board and left hung out to dry.
Once he started making those comments in preseason it was never going to work and Percy did say the breakdown in relationship between them was one of the 2 big factors.
I feel he should have had the Villa game to see if he was going to take us forward in a sensible manner but clearly the board had already appointed Sam in the background in the recent past. We all know Lai would rather save face over anything else.
Either Bilic or Lai had to go and obviously and sadly it was not going to be Lai.
Results wise there can be no complaints. We were awful in the 2nd half of last season too. Bilic goes with my thanks and well wishes.
Saying that Bilic isnt bigger than the Albion and neither is that lovely guy Lai. No way will he further dampen my love of WBA.
If it's Big Sam then it's Big Sam and he will get my full support whilst he's in charge.
Should be the owner going not the coach!
Doubt it Albion fans are the most placcid in the land.
I still remember mexican waves under Robson and a standing ovation for Mowbray despite relegation both times.
Anyone else happy or am I a rarity? We were on the one way road to relegation. Big Sam gives us half a chance of survival now.And if he fails we will be gone and going round in circles by May !
Anyone else happy or am I a rarity? We were on the one way road to relegation. Big Sam gives us half a chance of survival now.
Sad to see Bilic go but lets be honest since Lockdown we haven't been performing and his tactical decisions (except for last night) have been bizarre to see the least.
On top our general fitness as a team appears to be awful currently.
Admittedly, financial backing has been poor but where the money was spent on the transfers that were bought in failures appear to be down to Bilic:
- Diangana - hasn't been the same since his injury and very expensive (in hindsight)
- Krovinovic - luxury signing where a defensive midfielder was needed
- Grant - jury's out for me, confidence definitely an issue as we aren't creating chances but currently not looking great
- Ivanovic - we needed something but not looking great currently
- Pereira - again jury's out - struggling for form and confidence especially without Diangana pulling up trees
Understand why it has been done and not sure I am happy with Sam as a replacement but until we find someone to buy the club and pump some money in to the club, this is where we are. Sam will give us a chance as we are not down yet.
I am pretty cut up about this, I thought we would get relegated based on our squad makeup and so I am not sure what was expected of Bilic, was he meant to walk on water?
It is not that we can't still fight of relegation, it is only I strongly believe we have one of the three weakest squads in the Prem and so relegation is "par" for this squad.
I trusted Bilic would be in a position to help us bounce back.
But I long for the days that Peace was the owner "Better the devil you know"
Anyone else happy or am I a rarity? We were on the one way road to relegation. Big Sam gives us half a chance of survival now.
And if he fails we will be gone and going round in circles by May !
I'm not really that fussed about staying in this division. However if a takeover hinges on it then I'd agree Big Sam probably gives us a better chance.
Anyone else happy or am I a rarity? We were on the one way road to relegation. Big Sam gives us half a chance of survival now.
Thing is we are doing that whether we are staying up or going down.Bilic was never getting a new dealIf he’d kept us up at the very least they would have had to have offered him one
Thing is we are doing that whether we are staying up or going down.Bilic was never getting a new deal
Anyone else happy or am I a rarity? We were on the one way road to relegation. Big Sam gives us half a chance of survival now.
You are a rarity. We have now employed the 2 biggest dinosaurs the game has seen. Great!
Disgusting decision, good bye Slav and thanks for your great efforts with an average squad and some poor additions and players sold behind your back.Already there but you can never truly forget about it, it justs gets easier with every season.
I am done Albion, thanks for the memories in the past 50 years which I take with me.
Goodbye for ever WBA and sky, football is dead to me anyway and this is the final straw.
If he’d kept us up at the very least they would have had to have offered him one
I don't think so mate. The board and him did not get on from the second they slashed his budget it went very south, very fast. There is no way back from that
The marriage is finally settled with a divorce.They didn't expect us to get a result mate but, let's face it, who did?
The sacking was inevitable and even if Bilic had received a few more weeks following last nights stellar performance and result, the clouds of doom will have been hanging around him following his next defeat. The thin rope was getting thinner and with no discussions of a new deal & the breakdown between him and the board made this sacking inevitable really.
I thoroughly enjoyed last season following the dour years of Pulis - I enjoyed attending football games again and for that I will thank him. I wish him well.
On a point of the club though - the timing of this pretty much stinks. If they wanted to sack him they should have done it following the Newcastle game really.
Only if you're a stubborn fool who doesn't have the interests of the club at heart.
This is all about money.
The owner wants to sell our club, and our Premier status if worth a lot more to him than in the Championship.
Peace is the root cause of our situation. Everything he did, most noteably forcing out the best chairman we have had for many years, was done with his own financial interests paramount. Mr Lai is only doling what Mr Peace did. The only difference is Mr Lai does not pretend to be a supporter.
Bilic will go down as one of my favourite West Brom managers. A really class act and I'm sure super to work with and play for.
Typically managers are very selfish with over inflated egos and Bilic could never be accused of that. However, I feel his open playing style and lightweight midfield is reminiscent of Mowbray (also one I liked) and is not fit to compete/survive in the Prem League. He had very talented players with Croatia and I think that might have affected his view of what's possible with skillful players.
We are clearly desperate for defensive/mobile midfielders and even in last nights super effort Livermore and Sawyers were again accidents waiting to happen. We need more Connor Gallagher's and the addition of at least one defensive midfielder in January will help the defense and improve results IMO.
Disgusting decision, good bye Slav and thanks for your great efforts with an average squad and some poor additions and players sold behind your back.Hey come on man. I am just as disgusted as you but I will always support the Albion, always. I have been a supporter too ever since my dad took me and sat me behind the goal in the Smethwick end, sat on the wall with my legs behind the advertising boards. Watching John Osborne lean against the goal post when we were attacking the Brummie Road. It has been a tough 50 years but I would never want to support anyone else. They are my club, not Peace's or Lai's or Pulis. They all come and go.Once this pandemic is over I long for the day I can go to the Hawthornes and sing We love you Albion oh Albion we love you. I wanted to keep Bilic. He plays attacking football the way I like it, even though he didn't have the quality to do much better than we have in the Prem. Yes Im disappointed Yes I wish we had Billionaire owners that wanted to get the club into Europe. You'll feel different when we beat the Villa on Sunday trust me.
I am done Albion, thanks for the memories in the past 50 years which I take with me.
Goodbye for ever WBA and sky, football is dead to me anyway and this is the final straw.
Gutted for SlavWell said - you have said it all.
Gutted for the majority of fans
Gutted for the future of the club
I hate the premier league and what it has done to our club with every fibre of my body !
Thanks for some great days Slav, you deserved better !
Hey come on man. I am just as disgusted as you but I will always support the Albion, always. I have been a supporter too ever since my dad took me and sat me behind the goal in the Smethwick end, sat on the wall with my legs behind the advertising boards. Watching John Osborne lean against the goal post when we were attacking the Brummie Road. It has been a tough 50 years but I would never want to support anyone else. They are my club, not Peace's or Lai's or Pulis. They all come and go.Once this pandemic is over I long for the day I can go to the Hawthornes and sing We love you Albion oh Albion we love you. I wanted to keep Bilic. He plays attacking football the way I like it, even though he didn't have the quality to do much better than we have in the Prem. Yes Im disappointed Yes I wish we had Billionaire owners that wanted to get the club into Europe. You'll feel different when we beat the Villa on Sunday trust me.
Gutted for Slav
Gutted for the majority of fans
Gutted for the future of the club
I hate the premier league and what it has done to our club with every fibre of my body !
Thanks for some great days Slav, you deserved better !
Gutted for SlavHear hear to that. Should probably add gutted for the players.
Gutted for the majority of fans
Gutted for the future of the club
I hate the premier league and what it has done to our club with every fibre of my body !
Thanks for some great days Slav, you deserved better !
Not with a smug fat corrupt lying cheat representing our club i won't ! (allegedly)Me neither. We have lost all dignity and abandoned all principles as a club.
I agree it's not a good feeling today with how Bilic been dumped, but you have to think bigger picture. If Sam comes in, on this alleged 6 month contract and stabilises us, then we look far more enticing to take a gamble on for a new owner. If this American consotium as an example wanted to buy in, they'd be more comfortable doing it if we look like we are more likely to stay in the league and Sam does offer that possibility - at the cost of entertainment of course in the short term (On a scale of 1 to Pulis, he's about a 6 so not nearly as bad).
6 month contract = easier to move him on if/when a new owner comes in and wants to stamp authority with a new manager in the off season.
Today does suck, but it could be the first stepping stone towards the exit of the egregious Lai.
Yep.That's exactly what worries most of us.
People think with their hearts rather than their heads. There is a bigger picture to look at that will influence our fortunes over the next (maybe) ten years.
Not with a smug fat corrupt lying cheat representing our club i won't ! (allegedly)
For me the only positive about sacking Bilic is that if we manage to stay up it should hasten the departure of the owner and the rest of the board.Yes the only silver lining in the murky depths we have to align ourselves these days.
If we don't stay up I imagine the board will try and cash in on some of our more saleable players and we end up with a much weaker squad in the Championship.
Me neither. We have lost all dignity and abandoned all principles as a club.
Gutted for Slav
Gutted for the majority of fans
Gutted for the future of the club
I hate the premier league and what it has done to our club with every fibre of my body !
Thanks for some great days Slav, you deserved better !
And what will this do to the moral of the players now too. They gave everything yesterday, then come in to find the manager has gone and to be replaced by Allardyce.
So now we'll still go down, then we'll get rid of Sam, say bye to Dianagana, Pierera, Krov will go back, maybe lose Robinson and possibly SJ. Great.
Then we'll rebuild again, if we are lucky to get promoted the board won't back the manager then we start over again.
Bilic last days. Summary of new article from Athletic.
October 25th Bilic was ready to resign. Talked into staying by his advisers.
Board already discussed sacking him by then too.
Both parties felt no point carrying on last this season regardles as relationship was dead and unsalvageable.
Board couldn't get/afford their targets so stick Bilic but then Allardyce decided he wanted to get back into management so that changed things.
Bilic shook hands with Dowling and Xu Ke this morning when he was told and then he and his backroom staff went and said goodbye to the players
And what will this do to the moral of the players now too. They gave everything yesterday, then come in to find the manager has gone and to be replaced by Allardyce.
They should be taking some of the responsibility for his sacking..
If that is true then it was only a week or so after Karlan Grant signed .
I agree it's not a good feeling today with how Bilic been dumped, but you have to think bigger picture. If Sam comes in, on this alleged 6 month contract and stabilises us, then we look far more enticing to take a gamble on for a new owner. If this American consotium as an example wanted to buy in, they'd be more comfortable doing it if we look like we are more likely to stay in the league and Sam does offer that possibility - at the cost of entertainment of course in the short term (On a scale of 1 to Pulis, he's about a 6 so not nearly as bad).
6 month contract = easier to move him on if/when a new owner comes in and wants to stamp authority with a new manager in the off season.
Today does suck, but it could be the first stepping stone towards the exit of the egregious Lai.
it was also the day that Hegazi went.
If there was breakdown in relationship as it seems, i cant see much changing with Big Sam, he is known for wanting things his way and being demanding and as he has done in other jobs, he walks if he doesnt get it.Not much he can walk out over in 6 months. He’ll know the January budget and that’s about all he can complain about.
Something will have to give.
Absolute joke. We are a club without investment, leadership or direction. Billic did everything he could in the circumstances and i am ashamed of my club. The way it was leaked to the BBC this morning is also indicitive as to the way our club is run. Faceless owners who don't care about the manager, players, supporters and other shareholders. A very sad day for Albion I am mortified.
Lots of its and buts from all parties. Let's look at facts.None of what you have written, apart from the contracts which will come to an end, are "facts". They are just your opinions of what may happen. Facts are things that can be proven by evidence.
If we stay up - Bilic goes, we keep our best players and have a massive rebuild due to 10 contract expiries
If we go down - Bilic goes, sell our best players and rebuild due to the 10 contract expiries.
The same situation is inevitable no matter who is in charge, if we go down then Pereira and co are gone. We rebuild whether we stay up or not. Bilic was never going to be here past 1st June 2021 regardless.
Nothing has changed, just new management has been brought forward.
Doubt it Albion fans are the most placcid in the land.
None of what you have written, apart from the contracts which will come to an end, are "facts". They are just your opinions of what may happen. Facts are things that can be proven by evidence.
Fascinating article in the Athletic, which states:
https://theathletic.com/2257769/2020/12/16/bilic-sacked-west-brom-allardyce/
1) Bilic didn't want either Zohore or Austin last summer. He wanted Albian Ajeti or Vedat Muriqi who ended up signing for West Ham and Lazio. He was annoyed with our board, he felt we could have signed either had we moved sooner.
2) Bilic was also annoyed at the length of time it took to get the deals done to bring in Pereira and Diangana.
3) After Hegazi was sold he ironically commented: "It sometimes feels like we’ve been relegated to the Premier League, not promoted".
4) Bilic was shocked to learn the limits of the summer budget which was just £20m upfront. He presented some ambitious transfer targets in the hope of persuading Albion owner Lai, via Dowling, to cough up more cash, which was unsuccessful.
5) It was Bilic that was concerned that it was a mistake to spend all of our budget on Diangana, he preferredd another loan move but was overruled by Dowling.
Bilic expressed concerns that the fee of up to £18 million would eat up too much of the club’s limited summer funds and even believed another loan deal for Diangana would be possible later in the window. But Dowling and Albion pressed ahead with the early-September deal, believing that signing a young English player with obvious re-sale value on a long-term contract was an exciting football move and a shrewd financial investment.
6) Dowling thought we should be targeting full backs and a holding midfielder. Bilic agreed but not at the expense of singing Krovinovic and Karlan Grant.
7) It was Dowling pushing to sign Shane Duffy, Bilic never wanted him.
-8) The only reason Bilic wasn't sacked after Fulham is that there was no viable replacement available.
This paragraph neatly sums it all up and I think Bilic is 110% correct:
When the season finally began, the Albion board felt Bilic needed to provide more pragmatic answers to the difficult problems he faced. Those around Bilic felt the playing group was simply not strong enough, irrespective of how it was used.
Not much he can walk out over in 6 months. He’ll know the January budget and that’s about all he can complain about.
Based on our results throughout 2020, it was very obvious that Slaven's days were numbered if things didn't improve, and they didn't. However, our promotion last season was no mean achievement and his style of football was a breath of fresh air compared to what had gone before for some time. The obvious time for him to go was after the Palace game or, failing that, after Newcastle. To do it today leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I wish Slaven and the other coaches well and hope that they're not out of work for very long. Thanks for giving us our soul back, albeit all too temporarily.
Unfortunately, it looks like we're going to lose our soul once again - if you're an anti-football dinosaur, the Albion Board always has a place for you. Ours is a club with no plan, no vision and no competence, it just basically staggers like a drunk from one crisis to the next. You can't keep on sacking managers after 18 months (or less), at some point there has to be some continuity with a manager in place who is able to build a proper framework of a team over an extended period. We can't keep massively rebuilding the side at the end of every season and bringing players in who will lose us money.
I am firmly of the opinion that Albion has to make a stand for entertaining football. Call me old-fashioned, but I believe that the "Albion way" should actually mean something. In this day and age (more than ever in a post-Covid world), if football isn't entertaining then it's nothing. Fans won't want to watch it and attendances will decline. Instead, it looks like we're going to into reverse gear yet again and bring in another dinosaur as a panic measure, when it was obvious that we weren't spending enough money in the summer to give ourselves a decent chance of staying up.
Now we're expecting someone to come in and perform miracles. If we go down, which is highly likely, the next new manager to follow the interim dinosaur will have precious little time to sort out new signings and I don't trust the club to identify quality, value for money players. Therefore I feel that Dowling should be leaving too and, ultimately, yearn for the club to be sold to someone who actually cares, and who wants to bring passion, vision and excitement back to Albion. It feels like wishful thinking in the extreme at present.
Oh and please can everyone who was in the habit of calling our former manager "Bilic" not call the likely replacement "Sam" or "Big Sam". It puts the latter on a pedestal as being cuddly, likeable character when he's anything but.
All in all, today is a very sad day for the club.
So, regardless of the Manager we have there is a very strong liability that we will be relegated at the end of this season and back in the Championship. I liked Bilic and would have retained him. The idea of appointing Big Sam fills me with horror. Surely the Board have not thought this through. Lots of us have not renewed season tickets at this point, and in the Championship season ticket revenue (and gate receipts generally), will be much more important. Personally I am going to have a long hard think about renewing to watch this type of anti-football. Feeling quite sad today. The time when I will get to watch good football is moving further away.
I understand why he's gone. The timing was rubbish, but with results poor and having not been given a new contract in the summer, you could see it coming.
Still rubbish though.
Yeah feels rubbish but realistically, emotions aside it's the right call.
Dependent on who comes in. TBH for all i don't like the man Allardyce is as good an appointment as we can make for the situation we are in, possibly Pearson for a short term fix. After that, the names are scary and i'm sure the club have only floated Mark Hughes to make that actual appointment more palatable ie at least it's not Mark Hughes
I believe Allardyce and Pearson are the 2 who can do a job for us. If its Mark Hughes then i will be royally cheesed off.
The meltdown on here would be epic though ;D .
The meltdown on here would be epic though ;D .
The meltdown on here would be epic though ;D .
It's the right decision, but at the wrong time.
We've been pretty poor for a long time now so it's a bit late in coming in my opinion. We don't have a great squad by Premier League standards but I think his player selections were baffling most of the time. We didn't even play good football most of the time, we can still hardly string a few passes together.
I wouldn't be too displeased if we appointed Allardyce. Worth a shot.
Ok lets change facts to very likely to happen. You agree regarding the 10 contracts. It's been established that neither party wanted to continue the charade so it leaves the good players going bit.I think they would have if Slaven was still in situ, or at least there would have been a better chance.
If we go down you genuinely see Pereira, Diangana etc staying?
At least we've won something this year, even if it's only the sack race
Best case scenario now is we scrape stopping up, a new owner comes in at the end of the summer and we spend a few quid to make us a competitive midtable team.
I think they would have if Slaven was still in situ, or at least there would have been a better chance.
Without wanting to sound too dramatic, I feel as if something inside me has died today. I feel very down in the dumps.
Without wanting to sound too dramatic, I feel as if something inside me has died today. I feel very down in the dumps.
What's most likely scenario though? We play turgid football, get relegated, get rid of the manager and lose Periera, Diangana, amongst others - then we gamble on the rebuild again.
Lai is gambling the future of the club on us stopping up with a new manager.
Without wanting to sound too dramatic, I feel as if something inside me has died today. I feel very down in the dumps.
I was born into an Albion family’s and have been going to matches for over 55 years.In that time various boards/ owners have made unpopular decisions , decisions that have baffled , some downright stupid decisions , even the odd good decision but until now never has it made a decision that is so utterly ridiculous. Ridiculous in timing and ridiculous in the appointing( to be confirmed) of a corrupt , Albion hating manager .
Whilst I want the best for this club I would have a little chuckle if the ex England manager turns them down
Not only is it a stupid decision but if as seems likely we get relegated judging by the noises coming out we will have to go through the managerial roundabout all over again come April, May , June time . Total stupidity come on Lai, Ken, Dowling et al show us a plan that is longer than 18 months before repetition kicks in
I am as angry now as I ever have been with this club and the running of it or may be it should it be ruining of it in all my time supporting it .
Finally I would like to thank Slav for giving me my club back after the dark days of Pulis and Pardew
What's most likely scenario though? We play turgid football, get relegated, get rid of the manager and lose Periera, Diangana, amongst others - then we gamble on the rebuild again.
Lai is gambling the future of the club on us stopping up with a new manager.
Based on our results throughout 2020, it was very obvious that Slaven's days were numbered if things didn't improve, and they didn't. However, our promotion last season was no mean achievement and his style of football was a breath of fresh air compared to what had gone before for some time. The obvious time for him to go was after the Palace game or, failing that, after Newcastle. To do it today leaves a bad taste in the mouth. I wish Slaven and the other coaches well and hope that they're not out of work for very long. Thanks for giving us our soul back, albeit all too temporarily.Agree with a lot of this post Worcs.
Unfortunately, it looks like we're going to lose our soul once again - if you're an anti-football dinosaur, the Albion Board always has a place for you. Ours is a club with no plan, no vision and no competence, it just basically staggers like a drunk from one crisis to the next. You can't keep on sacking managers after 18 months (or less), at some point there has to be some continuity with a manager in place who is able to build a proper framework of a team over an extended period. We can't keep massively rebuilding the side at the end of every season and bringing players in who will lose us money.
I am firmly of the opinion that Albion has to make a stand for entertaining football. Call me old-fashioned, but I believe that the "Albion way" should actually mean something. In this day and age (more than ever in a post-Covid world), if football isn't entertaining then it's nothing. Fans won't want to watch it and attendances will decline. Instead, it looks like we're going to into reverse gear yet again and bring in another dinosaur as a panic measure, when it was obvious that we weren't spending enough money in the summer to give ourselves a decent chance of staying up.
Now we're expecting someone to come in and perform miracles. If we go down, which is highly likely, the next new manager to follow the interim dinosaur will have precious little time to sort out new signings and I don't trust the club to identify quality, value for money players. Therefore I feel that Dowling should be leaving too and, ultimately, yearn for the club to be sold to someone who actually cares, and who wants to bring passion, vision and excitement back to Albion. It feels like wishful thinking in the extreme at present.
Oh and please can everyone who was in the habit of calling our former manager "Bilic" not call the likely replacement "Sam" or "Big Sam". It puts the latter on a pedestal as being cuddly, likeable character when he's anything but.
All in all, today is a very sad day for the club.
We are no longer a football club - we are a commercial entity.Let's hope if it is Big Sam he keeps us up and we can be sold to someone who actually wants to own a football club with a history, not a commercial operation.
Lai purchased us in the hope that if we remained a premier league club, TV revenues would increase year on year and he would be able to sell us on at a profit.
Every decision we make is based on Lai at least getting his money back. We've no interest in winning a trophy, entertaining fans, growing the fanbase.
I'm sick of it. We the fans the suffer because Lai made a poor decision in buying us and he hoped to use West Brom as a vehicle to make a quick buck.
I feel sick that our club, with our long and proud history is in this position. We are at the mercy of an owner who has given us nothing.
Without wanting to sound too dramatic, I feel as if something inside me has died today. I feel very down in the dumps.
This is exactly it. Allardyce isn't going to keep us up. 6 months of watching eyesore football then back to the Championship with no hope of keeping the squad together.
Yup, and we'll lose the most exciting players we've had down the Hawthorns for years. It's going to be a sad day when Periera leaves, was hoping he'd move onto better things while we were in the Prem and could spend the hefty fee on more exciting players to push us on. Instead, he's not going to stick around to watch the ball sail over his head every game, so we'll lose him for peanuts.
You have my goodbyes and I wish you all good luck with your club. It was a great time and as much I want to I just can't stay to support the club with a board like this one. Thank you for this great tripYou don't have to go Albion is not there's it's mine it's yours it's the man who lives five doors down from the Hawthorns. It's the Fans at the end of the day Owners will leave fans and loyalty won't we are the reason many owners don't get away with destroying clubs. At the end of to Mr Lai He sees West Bromwich Albion as a brand as a Business that he profits from. But for Me and you we see the Hawthorns and West Brom as more Memories, Passion, laughing, crying it is all part of the Magically journey that is Albion. It is our club and always will be it is not a Millionaires Club
Didn't want Slav to go, the reality is he needed to go.
A fantastic point at Man City but One Swallow doesn't make a summer...
You have my goodbyes and I wish you all good luck with your club. It was a great time and as much I want to I just can't stay to support the club with a board like this one. Thank you for this great tripAppreciate that , best wishes mate .
Yup, and we'll lose the most exciting players we've had down the Hawthorns for years. It's going to be a sad day when Pereira leaves, was hoping he'd move onto better things while we were in the Prem and could spend the hefty fee on more exciting players to push us on. Instead, he's not going to stick around to watch the ball sail over his head every game, so we'll lose him for peanuts.
that's been a real disappointment, thought the two of them would shine in prem.
Both Periera and Diangana not exactly been on fire in the Prem with Bilic in charge .
You have my goodbyes and I wish you all good luck with your club. It was a great time and as much I want to I just can't stay to support the club with a board like this one. Thank you for this great trip
Those who follow my posts avidly will have noted that I have been quiet recently. Bad news in the real world has taken over, but I felt an urge to log in today just to put a couple of things on the record this evening.
Slav was a breath of fresh air; a manager who not only was successful on the pitch, but a human being who understood the importance of football for us, the fans. He gave me reason to believe once again, he restored pride to our club. When I heard he was to be sacked, I felt gutted, something I'd not experienced before when parting ways with a manager. This quickly turned to anger when it became clear how the club had treated him with a complete lack of respect, conspiring behind his back. Slav has more integrity in his little finger than the faceless ***** who run our club have put together. Our club, not their club.
Moving onto the decision: I disagree with it fiercely. Slav had got us promoted, and while things were far from perfect, the players were playing with pride and belief for their boss. He was not backed to any reasonable extent and our current predicament was more due to the ineptitude and inaction of our board. Due to the aforementioned personal circumstances, football was already moving down the pecking order and today's news just solidifies this. I will always be a Son of Albion, but I will not be down The Hawthorns for the foreseeable future, I fear. Allardyce is not my manager and the board, who have brought shame on this great club, are the enemy within.
Thanks for the memories, Slav.
Those who follow my posts avidly will have noted that I have been quiet recently. Bad news in the real world has taken over, but I felt an urge to log in today just to put a couple of things on the record this evening.
Slav was a breath of fresh air; a manager who not only was successful on the pitch, but a human being who understood the importance of football for us, the fans. He gave me reason to believe once again, he restored pride to our club. When I heard he was to be sacked, I felt gutted, something I'd not experienced before when parting ways with a manager. This quickly turned to anger when it became clear how the club had treated him with a complete lack of respect, conspiring behind his back. Slav has more integrity in his little finger than the faceless ***** who run our club have put together. Our club, not their club.
Moving onto the decision: I disagree with it fiercely. Slav had got us promoted, and while things were far from perfect, the players were playing with pride and belief for their boss. He was not backed to any reasonable extent and our current predicament was more due to the ineptitude and inaction of our board. Due to the aforementioned personal circumstances, football was already moving down the pecking order and today's news just solidifies this. I will always be a Son of Albion, but I will not be down The Hawthorns for the foreseeable future, I fear. Allardyce is not my manager and the board, who have brought shame on this great club, are the enemy within.
Thanks for the memories, Slav.
I am done with the club. They are disgraceful and embarrassing.
It is a shame because he is a good guy but performances have been so poor that it was inevitable he would be sacked.Do you know him well?
Those who follow my posts avidly will have noted that I have been quiet recently. Bad news in the real world has taken over, but I felt an urge to log in today just to put a couple of things on the record this evening.Fantastic post mate. All the best.
Slav was a breath of fresh air; a manager who not only was successful on the pitch, but a human being who understood the importance of football for us, the fans. He gave me reason to believe once again, he restored pride to our club. When I heard he was to be sacked, I felt gutted, something I'd not experienced before when parting ways with a manager. This quickly turned to anger when it became clear how the club had treated him with a complete lack of respect, conspiring behind his back. Slav has more integrity in his little finger than the faceless ***** who run our club have put together. Our club, not their club.
Moving onto the decision: I disagree with it fiercely. Slav had got us promoted, and while things were far from perfect, the players were playing with pride and belief for their boss. He was not backed to any reasonable extent and our current predicament was more due to the ineptitude and inaction of our board. Due to the aforementioned personal circumstances, football was already moving down the pecking order and today's news just solidifies this. I will always be a Son of Albion, but I will not be down The Hawthorns for the foreseeable future, I fear. Allardyce is not my manager and the board, who have brought shame on this great club, are the enemy within.
Thanks for the memories, Slav.
Some very dramatic and highly-charged posts on this thread. My commiserations to the pro-Bilić faction of our club.
Some very dramatic and highly-charged posts on this thread. My commiserations to the pro-Bilić faction of our club.
I unfortunatly know a bit more about this than I personally wanted to and I can assure you that the club have done this purely for self interested money reasons and nothing else. If you agree with their reasons then fine and I hope you are happy but I feel it is abhorrent and have no interest in the club until they quite frankly f*** o** completely!
Slaven Bilic, ex-West Ham United and Everton manager who previously managed his National Team.
Sam Allardyce, ex-West Ham United and Everton manager who previously managed his National Team.
Bilic has never managed EvertonOops!
Just spoken to my mate a Wolves fan says we will go down says we played well last night and also says Allardyce will go in it for money and that sacking Billic was Unfair
I unfortunatly know a bit more about this than I personally wanted to and I can assure you that the club have done this purely for self interested money reasons and nothing else. If you agree with their reasons then fine and I hope you are happy but I feel it is abhorrent and have no interest in the club until they quite frankly f*** o** completely!
Just spoken to my mate a Wolves fan says we will go down says we played well last night and also says Allardyce will go in it for money and that sacking Billic was UnfairYou have a friend who is a Wolves fan who has that much insight and intelligence. Are you sure he's a Wolves fan?
You have a friend who is a Wolves fan who has that much insight and intelligence. Are you sure he's a Wolves fan?
I unfortunatly know a bit more about this than I personally wanted to and I can assure you that the club have done this purely for self interested money reasons and nothing else. If you agree with their reasons then fine and I hope you are happy but I feel it is abhorrent and have no interest in the club until they quite frankly f*** o** completely!This is exactly as I suspected. I know you aren't able to elaborate, but I appreciate the confirmation.
You have a friend who is a Wolves fan who has that much insight and intelligence. Are you sure he's a Wolves fan?We have a mutual respect but they have been there before under Moxley when we laughing at them they have had there fun laughing at us now they know we are going through what they did. My dad once said to Wolves fans in my family that they very nearly went to the Conference and went bust.
Friend... Wolves fan...is that not a contradiction in terms?I went to school in a Wolves area Willenhall. We got on alright we had our moments but we like Football and we both have a common hatred Villa
Oh, I see. And what do you know exactly Baggie79?Baggie 79 has very many years of proven ITK knowledge, the accuracy of which has been well established on this board. He knows a hell of a lot more than most of us about what is actually going on.
Baggie 79 has very many years of proven ITK knowledge, the accuracy of which has been well established on this board. He knows a hell of a lot more than most of us about what is actually going on.
He does clearly have insight, however with all due respect I could have told you it’s a financially driven decision.As I said, I suspected as much as well. The difference is that you and I might have suspected that this was what was going on, but, believe me, if Baggie 79 says he knows, then he knows. He doesn't tend to get into any discussion about anything he is ITK about, but you can trust what he says.
Lai has rolled the dice to try and keep us up and protect the value of his investment.
As I said, I suspected as much as well. The difference is that you and I might have suspected that this was what was going on, but, believe me, if Baggie 79 says he knows, then he knows. He doesn't tend to get into any discussion about anything he is ITK about, but you can trust what he says.
Some very dramatic and highly-charged posts on this thread. My commiserations to the pro-Bilić faction of our club.
Conspiracy theory...How much would the remaining 6 months of his contract be worth then?
The board wouldn't let Slaven have any real money for transfers, because they wanted to keep it, just to pay him off.
The right decision if you look at the results over the last 16/24 games, with only 1/4wins. Its just the timing that is bad.It only looks bad timing because we didn't lose 4 or 5 nil as expected
How much would the remaining 6 months of his contract be worth then?
I think he was being ironic (well I hope he was :)I think youre right, he got me
It only looks bad timing because we didn't lose 4 or 5 nil as expected
Those who follow my posts avidly will have noted that I have been quiet recently. Bad news in the real world has taken over, but I felt an urge to log in today just to put a couple of things on the record this evening.
Slav was a breath of fresh air; a manager who not only was successful on the pitch, but a human being who understood the importance of football for us, the fans. He gave me reason to believe once again, he restored pride to our club. When I heard he was to be sacked, I felt gutted, something I'd not experienced before when parting ways with a manager. This quickly turned to anger when it became clear how the club had treated him with a complete lack of respect, conspiring behind his back. Slav has more integrity in his little finger than the faceless ***** who run our club have put together. Our club, not their club.
Moving onto the decision: I disagree with it fiercely. Slav had got us promoted, and while things were far from perfect, the players were playing with pride and belief for their boss. He was not backed to any reasonable extent and our current predicament was more due to the ineptitude and inaction of our board. Due to the aforementioned personal circumstances, football was already moving down the pecking order and today's news just solidifies this. I will always be a Son of Albion, but I will not be down The Hawthorns for the foreseeable future, I fear. Allardyce is not my manager and the board, who have brought shame on this great club, are the enemy within.
Thanks for the memories, Slav.
Am I being lazy asking what has he said?
"whilst I can never support Allardyce, the main reason being his disrespectful attitude and the rubbish he has spouted publicly about OUR club"
Sorry Glos. can't give you quotes, memory not that accurate these days. Others might be able to. But stuff like being a club he wouldn't want to go back to, looking at us as small time not deserving of our place etc. OK he might have been correct, but I didn't like it.Thanks mate. I think I can remember some of those but then again he was sacked so....?
Thanks mate. I think I can remember some of those but then again he was sacked so....?
Looking at the Wolves Villa stuff he does not seem to be that with them. If fact his managerial achievements were quite varied.
I loved Stav and was gutted last night but maybe he could do a job for us?
Just looking at it from the outside.
It only looks bad timing because we didn't lose 4 or 5 nil as expected
Really classy comments from Slav after his departureClassy comments from a classy guy. I notice he mentioned the word integrity. Won't be hearing that again for a while.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12165283/slaven-bilic-former-west-brom-boss-opens-up-on-sacking-and-honour-of-managing-club
Classy comments from a classy guy. I notice he mentioned the word integrity. Won't be hearing that again for a while.Absolutely. It seems like pretty much everyone here has forgotten him already, judging by the lack of responses. There were a number of things he did that I didn't agree with, but I can't fault his passion or his willingness to embrace the club and its fans.
Really classy comments from Slav after his departure
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12165283/slaven-bilic-former-west-brom-boss-opens-up-on-sacking-and-honour-of-managing-club
Billic tried to play the game the right way. He brought some quality players into the club and I have enjoyed watching Pereira, Diangana, Krovinovic and Robinson and what they have brought in terms of entertainment. Just think he may have got it wrong with Grant, but we know he wanted Watkins and Eze but they were outside of his budget. Obvioulsy with the step up to the Prem league, the team hasn't had quite enough quality to control matches through to the final minute, but then we are playing clubs who have had alot more in their budget and on the bench.For me I think he got it wrong with Grady, was already showing signs of being a bit brittle in the champ and the fee was high (relative for us) ,had some great games in the champ but I have a horrible feeling itwon’t happen for him....grant I think will play in to the role .
As a person, Bilic is top notch. I heard him say how he chose West Brom out of a small group of clubs he wanted to manage. He showed that passion for the club on the touchline.In his last interview he called us a unique club and wished us well which I believe was genuine.
Slaven Bilic was running at 0.54 pts per match from 13.
Sam Allardyce is soon to be at 0.00 from 2.
To justify sacking the previous boss, we should be expecting him to at least match that figure.
Under SB we should have been averaging around 1.00 as it was about 6pts snatched away from VAR.
Can you see players signed and integrated before 20 Jan? I can't as most players are signed at the tail end of the window.
With 5 more league games between now and 20 Jan if SA attains 4 pts or less you can argue we are down anyway, so what's the point of opening the chequebook to any large extent?
To get 4pts from the next 5, we have to beat either Leeds or Arsenal at home, I don't fancy us at Liverpool, Dingles or WHU.
then let's judge him after 13 games.
VAR hasn't snatched any points from us. We've been on the end of some awful decisions but the games still might have ended how they did. Under new handball rules VAR has been correct on some of them (Chelsea, Man Utd's penalty) it's not VAR that is always to blame but stupid changes to laws.
The only things I'd say VAR has got wrong was the non penalty against Man Utd and potentially the sending off of Pereira.
Villa should have had a player sent off last night and the goalkeeper should have been booked for handball but I doubt either decision would have changed the outcome of the game.
I can't believe what I've just read. So you're saying all the injustice under Slaven was all OK and we shouldn't say otherwise.
I'll stick my neck out after 13 games of Allardyce, we will achieve no more than 7pts more. So that's 14pts or less after 26 games.
Bilic's defensive record of 2.00 goals.conceded per game is already superior to Allardyce's 3.00.
Goof luck at Anfield Sam, you'll need it.
then let's judge him after 13 games.
VAR hasn't snatched any points from us. We've been on the end of some awful decisions but the games still might have ended how they did. Under new handball rules VAR has been correct on some of them (Chelsea, Man Utd's penalty) it's not VAR that is always to blame but stupid changes to laws.
The only things I'd say VAR has got wrong was the non penalty against Man Utd and potentially the sending off of Pereira.
Villa should have had a player sent off last night and the goalkeeper should have been booked for handball but I doubt either decision would have changed the outcome of the game.
Think you need to read my post again, I clearly said some of the VAR decisions where wrong. You are blaming everything on VAR which is wrong.
The Chelsea handball was correct under new handball rules, the penalty for Man Utd was also correct under new handball rules. All VAR was doing was upholding the new rules the fault lies with the stupid new rules in those cases not VAR.
It was a clear foul on Gallagher in the build up to Man Utd's goal - the goal should never have been awarded.
Even the Chelsea was dubious as I'd argue we never had control of the ball - the hurried clearance was instigated by the handball that kept it in play. Put it this way - if it had been ruled no goal because of the handball I don't think people would have been saying "that's the wrong decision".
Where have I blamed everything on VAR? I continually highlight the weaknesses in the team whether that's under Bilic, Allardyce or anyone else.
It suits your argument for sacking Bilic to say he deserved 7pts and no more from VAR.
I'll back Allardyce (in spite of the indescretion with taking bungs/being a rumoured dingle) if he plays football the right way. Lumping it forward will make us even worse in my view.
I was referencing your numerous posts stating that Bilic would have 6-8 more points if VAR had got things right (which it mostly did).
I was gutted that we sacked Bilic but since the board were unlikely to give him funds to strengthen in January and given how poor we were generally playing, it was time for him to go. He just didn't seem to know the best 11 or how to change things around.
If we continue to play possession based football with very little end product whilst being weak defensively we are going to go down.
The uncomfortable fact is that we have to play a different way to have any chance of staying up, it's not going to be pretty but that's the simple truth.
If we want the owner to be able to sell we need to be in the Premier league next season.
Well its entirely valid we were due 6pts more, why do you reference 8pts? 6pts puts Bilic on 13 from 13, 1 pt per game and out of the bottom 3. What are these poor performances, the heroic 1-1 at Man City? Or the 1-5 v CP decided by the ref?
What the hell was that last night by the way, 35% possession and 1 shot in a Derby. It was far worse than CP.
So if we lump it forward like a League 2 team we have a better chance of getting results, that's just nuts!
It's not valid that we were due 6 more points at all, where are these 6 points coming from?
The poor performances are Leicester, Soton, Fulham, Burnley, 1st half against Brighton, 2nd half against Palace.
What is nuts is that you seem to think we have less chance of staying up being more defensively sound (which is what I've said, I've not mentioned lumping it like a league 2 side) than if we continue with possession based no end product football.
You're saying Leicester was a bad performance, lol. 2-5 at Man City and 0-2 at Tottenham. Let Bilic off on that one.
I like how you mentioned Brighton 1at half but not 2nd half! Classic instance of game if 2 halves, a draw about right. Let Bilic off.
CP totally ruined by VAR, why criticise that game when we were clearly sinned against?
Southampton are a.very good side.
What's clear was that last night was the worst display all season.
I don't think you are an Albion fan with this blindness.VAR. If you want it your way it should be 10pts from 13 if we.split the difference, enough to be out of the bottom 3.
It was a poor performance against Leicester, and what's them beating Man City and Spurs got to do with that?
I didn't mention 2nd half against Brighton because you asked me to show poor performances! The fact we played well in the 2nd half doesn't alter the fact it was poor first half (you even acknowledge it was a game of 2 halves!)
Against Palace we played okay for the remainder of the first half after Pereira's red card but in the 2nd half we capitulated, yes the red card played a part but the performance was just dire.
Soton may be a very good side but that still doesn't deny how poor we were.
Last night was dreadful, poor 1st goal, Livermore being reckless, poor performances all over the park, not sure that any of those things have anything to do with a change of manager as poor performances have been happening numerous times this season.
Mate, frankly your expectations are ridiculous with the money handed over by the Board. We deserve to go down with such limited funds, regardless of Manager.a dream team combo of Klopp and Pep with Mourinho as defence coach wouldn't keep this lot up, disinterested owner is our main problem and until he's out of club us fans will suffer.
I think we'll struggle under Allardyce but that's my opinion. I'm not confident of beating either Leeds or Arsenal. And without a win by then we.are down before SA canfet his hands on any money. We basically got in Allardyce for a new Manager bounce. On the evidence of last night, it already looks bleak.
Mate, frankly your expectations are ridiculous with the money handed over by the Board. We deserve to go down with such limited funds, regardless of Manager.
I think we'll struggle under Allardyce but that's my opinion. I'm not confident of beating either Leeds or Arsenal. And without a win by then we.are down before SA canfet his hands on any money. We basically got in Allardyce for a new Manager bounce. On the evidence of last night, it already looks bleak.
I expect us to be in a relegation battle, I expected it at the start of the season. How is that ridiculous?
I don't expect Allardyce to turn it round but I think he could if he is backed by the board in January (something that Bilic wasn't going to be).
Having an experienced manager like Allardyce gives us more chance of staying up than if we'd kept Bilic in charge.
It's not trying to entirely blame VAR - but there's been a few decisions that haven't gone our way and they've been very marginal calls that have tended to not go in our favour.
Time to reflect. Bilic's biggest undoing was signing players that would fit a 4231 and then switching to 541/343 with the full backs in the 11 and 3 centre backs. Were were suddenly out of shape, unbalanced and then he kept chopping and changing when the team was barely new and should have just continued in the shape of last season.
Played right-footed players at left back.
No Pereira in the middle. Diangana in, Diangana out. Robinson in, Robinson out.
If he kept it simple, and players did the basics we could have gone on from there.
Time to reflect. Bilic's biggest undoing was signing players that would fit a 4231 and then switching to 541/343 with the full backs in the 11 and 3 centre backs. Were were suddenly out of shape, unbalanced and then he kept chopping and changing when the team was barely new and should have just continued in the shape of last season.
Played right-footed players at left back.
No Pereira in the middle. Diangana in, Diangana out. Robinson in, Robinson out.
If he kept it simple, and players did the basics we could have gone on from there.
I have no complaint about the sacking as I think the form towards the end of last season was not good enough and maybe a victim of his own success with the early part of last season and it is a results business however the manner it was done was unprofessional and totally disrespectful to Bilic and his staff.
As for the signings Dowling is also guilty here so its not just on Bilic, yes he chased and chased Grant and Krovinovic who have not come off but reports are that Button, Kipre and the permanent deal for Diangana were not ones he favoured but the main man always carries the can.
I wish him well in the future and he did for a spell reunite the fanbase which yet again due to to poor management from those at the top is as split as it was a few years ago.
It was a poor performance against Leicester, and what's them beating Man City and Spurs got to do with that?
I didn't mention 2nd half against Brighton because you asked me to show poor performances! The fact we played well in the 2nd half doesn't alter the fact it was poor first half (you even acknowledge it was a game of 2 halves!)
Against Palace we played okay for the remainder of the first half after Pereira's red card but in the 2nd half we capitulated, yes the red card played a part but the performance was just dire.
Soton may be a very good side but that still doesn't deny how poor we were.
Last night was dreadful, poor 1st goal, Livermore being reckless, poor performances all over the park, not sure that any of those things have anything to do with a change of manager as poor performances have been happening numerous times this season.
That's a relatively short turn around to ponder a move to Chinese football with all it's pros, cons, contract negotiations, budgets, relocation etc.
The cynic within suggests he may have been in negotiations prior to his release by our board (and who could blame him given that he did in fact work for our board?).
I wonder whether he wrote the names of any Chinese football clubs or leagues from around the world he saw as potential challenges on a piece of paper on a flight somewhere at any point over the last couple of years.
Pure speculation on my part of course but perhaps he's nowhere near as heartbroken by our parting of the ways as much of the support base he's left behind is/was............ all of the very best Slaven and warmest regards to your other half.
Slaven Bilic has been appointed as head coach of Beijing Guoan on a 2 year contract.
All the best Slav!
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/12180322/slaven-bilic-former-west-brom-boss-returns-to-management-with-chinese-side-beijing-guoan
OR........................
Maybe the sale is a lot closer than we think.
It was rumoured to be set for completion by mid January........ yes, this year.
What sale!? :o
The one that's been widely speculated on for some time. I've no idea how solid or speculative said links were though.
I'm with Dan. This has happened very quickly in the current circumstances.
Played us like a fiddle. Paid off by us, massive salary there. No doubt in my mind this particular iron was in the fire while he was still an employee of WBA.
Did he definitely get a pay off from us, or was he on gardening leave?
To be honest we all bemoaned the board for the summers transfer dealings. If he had started looking then, who could have blamed him? Unless we all wait to be unemployed before we look for a new job?
I'm with Dan. This has happened very quickly in the current circumstances.You know what, it's best to have at least a scintilla of evidence before you become absolutely certain about something.
Played us like a fiddle. Paid off by us, massive salary there. No doubt in my mind this particular iron was in the fire while he was still an employee of WBA.
......Hopefully our fans can move on as quickly...
What a surprise he ends up on the opposite side of the world within 3 weeks of his sacking.
I’ve no doubt he was already in negotiations hence his ‘not bothered’ comment on his future
I'm with Dan. This has happened very quickly in the current circumstances.
Played us like a fiddle. Paid off by us, massive salary there. No doubt in my mind this particular iron was in the fire while he was still an employee of WBA.
Huge money no doubt , easier standard with a lot less pressure.
Good luck to him.
Who can blame him having something else up his sleeve if it went pear-shaped with us. What was he supposed to do? Sit around crying for 6 months. I think he had a genuine affection for the club, and he had ambitions to take us further. However sometimes in life, a decision is taken out of your hands by someone else. Good luck Slaven.I agree 100%. Some of those who were adamant earlier in the season that he shouldn't be given a contract extension and, latterly, were also saying that he should be sacked, are now criticising him for getting a new job so quickly, which is hypocritical to say the least. Beijing Guoan only sacked their previous manager this week.
What a disgraceful comment and a load of garbage. Bilic was sacked by our board. He owes our club nothing there on. Unbelievable that posters are criticising him for gaining employment. No evidence for anything the above poster insinuates.
That’s what a forum is for...’opinions’I think Bilic would consider it more of an accusation than an opinion.
We owe him nothing as a club aswell
Good luck to him though
Hopefully! Notice Zhang Yuning, the young chinese experiment for Lai plays for the same team that Bilic now works at.Who
About his level these days, the Chinese Super League. To be fair to the man he should have been freed to take up this new post in early August 2020.
That being said, I shall pass on my very best wishes to Slaven Bilić and his coaching staff. Good luck 👍🏻
I think Bilic went to China for a taste of there Culture one day he may return to finish what he intended to start here but not why we have this board in charge. If or when we get new owners who are actually interested in doing best for the club and we sack whoever is in charge let's say Big Sam after 3 years, we kept Pereira here Bilic might just return if he doesn't. I hope he will receive a Warm Welcome back from our fans if he comes to The Hawthorns again he united us and brought our little club some fantastic times and made us all beleive in this club again. Good lack Slav and whatever you do don't take Pereira with you yet.
I doubt our present incumbent would have the foresight (or an agent)
Have people not considered that much as a club would have succession planning in place, a manager may have his agent career planning, this isn't disrespectful or abhorrent its clever. I doubt our present incumbent would have the foresight (or an agent)If a member of my team was courting other offers whilst his performance was dropping I would be extremely disappointed. It would be, stay and sort yourself out, or pack up your stuff. Not keep doing a tat job and when I get fed up enough I'll pay you off.
I wouldn't say that Slav was doing a bad job or couldn't be bothered. This squad of players is awful. Big Sam the saviour has managed 1 point from 4 games with the same bunch. He will need 4/5 decent players to give him any chance of survival. It seems the club were stringing Bilic along anyway and would have sacked him sooner has a suitable replacement been available.
If a member of my team was courting other offers whilst his performance was dropping I would be extremely disappointed. It would be, stay and sort yourself out, or pack up your stuff. Not keep doing a tat job and when I get fed up enough I'll pay you off.No evidence that he was
If the offer was on the table and his heart wasn't in it he could have walked. This is where the conspiracy theory comes into play, in that, he wasn't "bothered" about the sack because he knew he was sorted. If he really is this bastion of integrity he would have put personal pride and the best interests of the club first and quit.
I don't blame him, it's the way of modern football and probably what I would do, it just further shows how detached football is from real life.
I wouldn't say that Slav was doing a bad job or couldn't be bothered. This squad of players is awful. Big Sam the saviour has managed 1 point from 4 games with the same bunch. He will need 4/5 decent players to give him any chance of survival. It seems the club were stringing Bilic along anyway and would have sacked him sooner has a suitable replacement been available.
Bilic started the season with 1 point from 4 games, let's judge Allardyce properly when he's had a chance to get some players in that can play his way.
Yes he probably does need 4/5 players to try and balance the side and get them fighting to stay in this league.
I don't know if the club were stringing Bilic along more that they were giving him enough rope to hang himself which he duly did.
No evidence that he wasNo evidence that he wasn't
No evidence that it was.
So the rest of your post is only based on groundless speculation.
No evidence that he wasn'tIt isn't possible to provide evidence for something that isn't or wasn't ;D
No evidence that it wasn't
Entire post is based on my opinion, I've claimed nothing as fact.
𝗕𝗥𝗘𝗔𝗞𝗜𝗡𝗚: Former West Ham and West Brom manager, Slaven Bilić, is keen on taking the Burnley job - talkSPORT sources understand.I wonder if he'd turn up his nose if we approached him again. I suppose it depends on if he left on friendly terms and if he'd be dealing with the same people.
I wonder if he'd turn up his nose if we approached him again. I suppose it depends on if he left on friendly terms and if he'd be dealing with the same people.I highly doubt he left on Good Terms, he had his best defender Hegazi taken from him, given no money and was sacked after a decent result against Man City. Also no Pereira anymore. You could see in his eyes and his face we ruined him we broke that man, you could also see it hurt him as he had a Passion for this club one that us Fans could see and most loved him for, he had his flaws but unlike Bruce he cared. I think Bilic had got the squad before Covid where they let him down back Man City was a turning point. Slav would make sure we battled Hammer and nail to stay up and if we went down I'm sure the board were scared he would call them out for not backing him. Had we stayed up he would have used his knowledge to get us some players. But alas we will never know. As I stated many time I loved Slav I hope he returns one day and either wins us a Cup, takes us up or keeps us up from whatever division and or gets a Standing ovation. During Val's time his name was still sang by us, I hope he returns would he I don't know I think we broke him.