Author Topic: Dwight Gayle (at Newcastle)  (Read 235019 times)

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Atomic

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #625 on: May 20, 2019, 11:55:25 AM »
from the clubs POV with Gayle, i think we may replace those players and still be financially better off  and will cost us nothing.

players like Dawson, Hegazi, Gibbs, Rodriguez and Rondon will all definitely go and all fetch transfer fees.

Rondon has a £16.5m release clause which someone will pay. the other 4 combined will fetch at least £20-25m.

so you think we are going to spend £40m plus on replacing those players???

we will replace them with players of the same calibre like Townsend. players doing well at league 1 & 2 and bottom end of the championship, yes who will cost money but will cost a lot less wages than those 5 players mentioned and transfer fees too.

we will have a mid table squad next year at best and will actually make money IMO.


You have no way of knowing what players will go. You cannot sign someone purely on the presumption that someone else will leave for a start.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #626 on: May 20, 2019, 12:00:19 PM »

You have no way of knowing what players will go. You cannot sign someone purely on the presumption that someone else will leave for a start.

Of course you can.  We'd be signing Gayle to replace, well, Gayle.  We are ALREADY 2 or 3 strikers down so we definitely need to sign at least 1.  Why wouldn't you be interested in the best striker in the Championship?

Atomic

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #627 on: May 20, 2019, 12:02:43 PM »
Of course you can.  We'd be signing Gayle to replace, well, Gayle.  We are ALREADY 2 or 3 strikers down so we definitely need to sign at least 1.  Why wouldn't you be interested in the best striker in the Championship?


We're probably going to be bringing in seven / eight players maybe more. Now we can bring in absolute rubbish on rock bottom wages or we can bring in some promising talent on decent (but not Premier League) wages. Which would you prefer?




boinging_along

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #628 on: May 20, 2019, 12:05:27 PM »

We're probably going to be bringing in seven / eight players maybe more. Now we can bring in absolute rubbish on rock bottom wages or we can bring in some promising talent on decent (but not Premier League) wages. Which would you prefer?

Well, firstly, I will say this "You have no way of knowing what players we will sign".  It works both ways.

I would prefer us to bring in players who are going to give us a serious promotion push, aiming for top two.  Gayle is one of these, it's as simple as that. 


Atomic

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #629 on: May 20, 2019, 12:08:02 PM »
Well, firstly, I will say this "You have no way of knowing what players we will sign".  It works both ways.

I would prefer us to bring in players who are going to give us a serious promotion push, aiming for top two.  Gayle is one of these, it's as simple as that.


I know for certain we will bring players in because if we don't we simply can't function.

We're going to make no promotion push with no squad of players to utilise that is for certain.

Gayle didn't get us up last season did he? In fact most of the games he didn't play in we won including the Villa play off game at home.


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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #630 on: May 20, 2019, 12:14:20 PM »
Gayle has no affiliation to this club so is not going to take a wage cut to come to us, yeah he probably enjoyed most of his loan spell but his next move will be his last big one, he's 28 and there will be clubs that are prepared to pay for him and give him the wages he's currently on or maybe better depending where he goes so no way will he take a pay cut.

He's also still got 2 years left at Newcastle so any fee will be more than we realistically can be spending at this stage.

It did also say we cannot sign him permanently so there is still hope that we can do something to get him back on loan depending on what happens with Rondon going there and then maybe next Summer if a miracle happens and we do go back up we can look at a perm deal but if someone else comes in he will go there if its right for him.

OldburyWBA fully agree with your post.

Yes we are disappointed with the news, but just wish our fans would look at all the facts before shouting for everyone to get the bed sheets out ( Facebook at it again ).   
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boinging_along

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #631 on: May 20, 2019, 12:19:33 PM »
@Atomic

But you don't know which players we will be bringing in so forcing the decision into a binary one like you have is unfair, especially considering your stance regarding other people's thoughts on the squad and who we might buy.  Why can't we buy Gayle and "promising talent on decent (but not Premier League) wages"? 

"Gayle didn't get us up last season did he? In fact most of the games he didn't play in we won including the Villa play off game at home."

I don't think any single player is to blame for us not getting promotion.  By your logic we don't need any of our current squad because they all failed to get us promoted.  Clearly Gayle was one of the bright points and was definitely one of the reasons why we came close to getting promoted.  Are you realistically tell me that if we'd not played Gayle we would have been better off this season?   :)

The board have come out and have signalled their intention to do everything on the cheap.  I don't see how anyone can be happy with that.

Gayle had 24 goals last season, 2 assists, and won, what 6? 8? penalties?  You think we can replace that on the cheap?  It's not impossible but this board has hardly got a recent history of making quality transfers. 

You get promoted by scoring goals.  Gayle will score goals.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #632 on: May 20, 2019, 12:24:29 PM »

I know for certain we will bring players in because if we don't we simply can't function.

We're going to make no promotion push with no squad of players to utilise that is for certain.


Gayle didn't get us up last season did he? In fact most of the games he didn't play in we won including the Villa play off game at home.

Yes, I'm sure we would bring in players, but I can't see them being anywhere near the quality up top we will need. Probably another Anichebe or Murphy who would be inside our budget, but will not get us the goals.
Yes, the team put in a fantastic performance v Villa in terms of commitment, but clearly they raised their game for the occasion. Are they going to do that 46 matches a season?
I can't see a forward line with HRK and Leko producing over 46 matches.
We are not going to find a better striker than Gayle in the market we now find ourselves.
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Atomic

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #633 on: May 20, 2019, 12:25:12 PM »
@Atomic

But you don't know which players we will be bringing in so forcing the decision into a binary one like you have is unfair, especially considering your stance regarding other people's thoughts on the squad and who we might buy.  Why can't we buy Gayle and "promising talent on decent (but not Premier League) wages"? 

"Gayle didn't get us up last season did he? In fact most of the games he didn't play in we won including the Villa play off game at home."

I don't think any single player is to blame for us not getting promotion.  By your logic we don't need any of our current squad because they all failed to get us promoted.  Clearly Gayle was one of the bright points and was definitely one of the reasons why we came close to getting promoted.  Are you realistically tell me that if we'd not played Gayle we would have been better off this season?   :)

The board have come out and have signalled their intention to do everything on the cheap.  I don't see how anyone can be happy with that.

Gayle had 24 goals last season, 2 assists, and won, what 6? 8? penalties?  You think we can replace that on the cheap?  It's not impossible but this board has hardly got a recent history of making quality transfers. 

You get promoted by scoring goals.  Gayle will score goals.


We're losing millions of pounds of parachute payments of course we have to do things cheaper.

You're blaming the board and Dowling but it wasn't Dowling who sanctioned paying Gregorz Krychowiak £120K a week for doing naughty word all. It wasn't Dowling who sanctioned bringing in Daniel Sturridge who did even less and it wasn't Dowling who brought Oli Burke in for £15 million.

We are left with the mess all that has created and we've got to get out of it.

Yes fans are disappointed but Dowling has asked us to trust him. Let's let the guy do his job before we hammer him.

The club is bigger than Dwight Gayle and he is not the only person in the world that can score goals.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #634 on: May 20, 2019, 12:31:57 PM »
@Atomic

We are losing millions of pounds yes, but you still get to choose where the money we do have is spent. 

I don't see why you're going on about Burke, Sturridge and Krychowiak.  Firstly I don't remember anyone complaining when we signed them so it's not good now using hindsight to say they were terrible transfers.    They also had ZERO effect on last season and will have zero effect on next season. 

We will not get out of the mess we're in by refusing to sign players who will get you 20+ goals a season.  Your position seems weird, on one hand you're saying "you don't know who we will let go", then acknowledging that you don't know who we will sign, then you're convinced we will buy a replacement who will score as many goals.  While also writing off Gayle's contribution last season.

Look, if we sign a replacement who is as good or better, on a fraction of the money, who scores 20+ goals next seasons and wins penalties, then yeah, I'm wrong.  What on earth makes you think the board will do that?  The fact we signed HRK?

Atomic

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #635 on: May 20, 2019, 12:34:08 PM »
@Atomic

We are losing millions of pounds yes, but you still get to choose where the money we do have is spent. 

I don't see why you're going on about Burke, Sturridge and Krychowiak.  Firstly I don't remember anyone complaining when we signed them so it's not good now using hindsight to say they were terrible transfers.    They also had ZERO effect on last season and will have zero effect on next season. 



Yes they have. They've had a massive affect on our finances which controls what we can and can't do.




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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #636 on: May 20, 2019, 12:39:58 PM »
Hardly surprising - we cannot afford those wages in the Championship.

I think this failure to get promotion is going to be a massive reality check to some supporters come August.
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boinging_along

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #637 on: May 20, 2019, 12:43:54 PM »

Yes they have. They've had a massive affect on our finances which controls what we can and can't do.
Sturridge wasn't here last season, neither was Greg.  Burke has been out on loan, no idea on how much wages we've paid.    Again, nobody complained when we signed those players.  Some players work out, some don't. 

What relevance does this have to this coming season?  How long do you go back?  What about finishing 10th and the positive effect that had on our finances?  What about all the Prem money from last season?  Or the parachute payments that we get now?  Signing those players didn't put us in this position, a board making consecutive poor decisions has.

Your position seems to be "you can't complain about not signing Gayle because we did better without him anyway and remember we signed a few players on loan 2 seasons ago", coupled with a bit of "we'll sign someone better anyway".

If you're happy with us buying players on the cheap then fair play, I hope it all works out for you. 


Atomic

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #638 on: May 20, 2019, 12:45:00 PM »
Sturridge wasn't here last season, neither was Greg.  Burke has been out on loan, no idea on how much wages we've paid.    Again, nobody complained when we signed those players.  Some players work out, some don't. 

What relevance does this have to this coming season?  How long do you go back?  What about finishing 10th and the positive effect that had on our finances?  What about all the Prem money from last season?  Or the parachute payments that we get now?  Signing those players didn't put us in this position, a board making consecutive poor decisions has.

Your position seems to be "you can't complain about not signing Gayle because we did better without him anyway and remember we signed a few players on loan 2 seasons ago", coupled with a bit of "we'll sign someone better anyway".

If you're happy with us buying players on the cheap then fair play, I hope it all works out for you.



I give up.

Someone else explain to him.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #639 on: May 20, 2019, 12:46:24 PM »
Gayle did a good job for us last season and he would be probably do another good job for us next season. However, he has to come to us on our terms. We can't have players demanding what they want. 

At the end of the day he is a good championship striker, not a premier league one. Its up to us to build a team with a long term view. We tried a quick fix this season by bringing in loan players such as Gayle and it failed. We now have to get strikers ( and other players) from maybe lower leagues or abroad and gel them into a team capable of winning the championship.  It's no good trying to get into the premier league via the play offs. The last 10 teams that have done that 7 have been relegated within 2 seasons, 6 in the 1st season.

Lets face it Gayle was out scored this season by Pukki of Norwich and Malpauy of Brentford. I bet no one would have predicted that at the start of the season.  So we have got to find the next Pukki or Malpauy and at the same time get a decent midfield.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #640 on: May 20, 2019, 12:47:42 PM »
Why do some people think we can't afford it?  We've been a well run club, financially, for years and now suddenly signing Gayle would put us so far into the red that we'll have to sell the ground and sack the tea lady and club staff.  It's laughable and it's clearly the club just setting the scene for us doing everything on the cheap, once again.

Put it this way, if J-Rod decides he wants to leave this summer like he considered last year, then that would leave us with HRK and Edwards.  Where are the goals going to come from?  £55k a week to guarantee 20-+ goals is fine.  To get promoted you need to score goals, it will only make sense if we replace Gayle with someone who will score a decent amount.

Some people think we can't afford it because we genuinely can't afford it. The last twelve months in the Premier league, with the mismanagement, and the pay-offs for those responsible for that, we have seriously dented our finances. As Jenkins said, there used to be £40 million in the bank - in the space of 12-18 months, that had mostly gone.

We haven't been run well for a few years now, and it's set us back to where we were 10 years ago - maybe further. This is where a decent scouting network like Norwich would come in handy, but Pulis dismantled what was left of ours after Ashworth left.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #641 on: May 20, 2019, 12:49:00 PM »
The club have implemented a Championship level wage cap, broken for Gayle and a few others (Holgate, Tosin, Barnes, Murphy, Johansen) last season to see if we can bounce back. No chance of breaking the cap next season and players will need to be sold to balance the books for FFP rules.

Some think we can't afford it because we can't, about 75% of our Premier league money went on players wage. There is no premier league money sitting in our balance sheet. I doubt Lai will see a return on his investment in the club.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 12:55:56 PM by BoingFlyer »
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Atomic

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #642 on: May 20, 2019, 12:53:25 PM »
When's the last time we signed a Pukki?


This summer  ;)

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #643 on: May 20, 2019, 12:54:32 PM »


I give up.

Someone else explain to him.

Thanks but don't be so condescending if that's ok.

I understand about finances, I run my own company.  I would rather have a Gayle on £55k a week than two HRK's on £28k a week.  I would rather have Morrison and Brunt shipped out and use their wages on Gayle.  Saying we can't afford him isn't taking into account anything else that may or may not go on.

To say we can't afford him, before we've even looked at the rest of the squad, the incomings and outgoings, what the new manager wants\doesn't want etc, is purely an exercise in the board to get fans to readjust their expectations for this and the following seasons and let us know we will be doing things on the cheap. 

What if a new manager comes in and says he wants Gayle and would sacrifice a few quad fillers.  What about all the money we could save on player's wages and receive in transfer fees?  The announcement is nothing to do with whether we can afford him or not, it's all to do with getting fans to think that we can't afford players of that calibre.

Buckle up, it's going to be a tough few years.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #644 on: May 20, 2019, 12:59:04 PM »
The club have implemented a Championship level wage cap, broken for Gayle and a few others (Holgate, Tosin, Barnes, Murphy, Johansen) last season to see if we can bounce back. No chance of breaking the cap next season and players will need to be sold to balance the books for FFP rules.

Some think we can't afford it because we can't, about 75% of our Premier league money went on players wage. There is no premier league money sitting in our balance sheet.

But Tosin, Holgate, Barnes, Murphy, Johansen won't be here this year.  Current players have write down agreements in their contracts.  We will also lose some of our big hitters in the summer.  We are not trying to operate on Premiership wages while in the Championship.  It doesn't mean that you can't have some players earning more if their worth to the squad makes it worth while.  A striker that will get you 20+ goals a season is one of those. 

Like I said, it's fine if we sign someone who can do it.  But if J-Rod leaves that leaves us with nothing and our board have set their stall out that we'll be doing this on the cheap. 

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #645 on: May 20, 2019, 01:01:38 PM »
Thanks but don't be so condescending if that's ok.

I understand about finances, I run my own company.  I would rather have a Gayle on £55k a week than two HRK's on £28k a week.  I would rather have Morrison and Brunt shipped out and use their wages on Gayle.  Saying we can't afford him isn't taking into account anything else that may or may not go on.

To say we can't afford him, before we've even looked at the rest of the squad, the incomings and outgoings, what the new manager wants\doesn't want etc, is purely an exercise in the board to get fans to readjust their expectations for this and the following seasons and let us know we will be doing things on the cheap. 

What if a new manager comes in and says he wants Gayle and would sacrifice a few quad fillers.  What about all the money we could save on player's wages and receive in transfer fees?  The announcement is nothing to do with whether we can afford him or not, it's all to do with getting fans to think that we can't afford players of that calibre.

Buckle up, it's going to be a tough few years.

That is the crux of the problem. Stick a bunch of employees in the same room doing a similar job and let them know one of them is on double the rest, the green eyed monster would soon appear as quickly as the team harmony disappears. It won't be just two HRK it will be at least 10 other players as well. You can get away with it last season as it's a one off, if we bounce back up everyone gets a slice of the premier league pie.

Who do you play if Gayle is injured/exhausted/off form/Suspended if you have sold all of our other strikers to fund him?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 01:07:04 PM by BoingFlyer »
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #646 on: May 20, 2019, 01:03:04 PM »
Has anyone considered the fact that Gayle may not want to return here? He may have already stated this to the club with Dowling spinning the line of not being able to afford him. After such a good season here I'm sure he won't be short of a few attractive offers elsewhere.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #647 on: May 20, 2019, 01:03:29 PM »
I'd be amazed if we pick up a Pukki. But Norwich have the benefit of a manager who had first hand knowledge of the German leagues market. I'm not sure if we have any scouts in Europe.
I can understand the need to balance our books. But we are going to be extremly fortunate to find a goalscorer who can produce 20+ goals in the Championship. You have to look at it from the players' perspective. Who would be interested in coming to West Brom? Basically lower division players, or others struggling to get a game in the Prem.
Despite what Dowling has said, I hope he is still open to seeing if a deal can be done with Newcastle over Rondon and Gayle.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #648 on: May 20, 2019, 01:05:24 PM »
But Tosin, Holgate, Barnes, Murphy, Johansen won't be here this year.  Current players have write down agreements in their contracts.  We will also lose some of our big hitters in the summer.  We are not trying to operate on Premiership wages while in the Championship.  It doesn't mean that you can't have some players earning more if their worth to the squad makes it worth while.  A striker that will get you 20+ goals a season is one of those. 

Like I said, it's fine if we sign someone who can do it.  But if J-Rod leaves that leaves us with nothing and our board have set their stall out that we'll be doing this on the cheap.

They won't be here but the club will have a contingency plan on how to fund their premier league wages and failure to bounce back. I suspect we have borrowed money this season to fund their wages, that money has to be paid back and the parachute money decreases next season as well so we need to adjust to that as well.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #649 on: May 20, 2019, 01:11:48 PM »
Has anyone considered the fact that Gayle may not want to return here? He may have already stated this to the club with Dowling spinning the line of not being able to afford him. After such a good season here I'm sure he won't be short of a few attractive offers elsewhere.

Why would Dowling cover for him?