Author Topic: Anything England Football  (Read 773918 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Albionic

  • Site Donator
  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 7677
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3175 on: November 15, 2019, 12:04:32 PM »
couldnt be arsed to watch the 7-0. was it a good game folks

decent display, not much of a "match" though, games like this make a mockery of disrupting the season to be honest, I haven't spoken to anyone who thinks they are justifiable, even fans of clubs with players in the team think its a distraction, let alone the risk of injuries .......
the road to the summit has dips, keep the faith when navigating those dips !!
Albion Family !!!

gerry m

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3148
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3176 on: November 15, 2019, 04:49:12 PM »
It's alright cake walking the qualifiers need to do it on the big stage.

Fritzl Palace

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 4519
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3177 on: November 18, 2019, 08:50:07 AM »
It's alright cake walking the qualifiers need to do it on the big stage.

We still somehow managed to lose a game in a group that should have been a complete doddle. First time in ten years that we have lost a qualifier, even under the complete disaster (apparently) that was Roy Hodgson we managed to avoid defeat in them.

I do get fed up of people holding Southgate up as being Corberan. We managed to beat a few poor teams at the World Cup and lost eveyr game when we came up against anyone half decent...he is just not a good manager, when it comes to the crunch decisions he just is not up to it. We have a superb young squad now with the fruits of the under 17 world cup winning squad coming through which will be wasted under his watch.

BalisPen

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1660
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3178 on: November 23, 2019, 07:44:21 PM »
We still somehow managed to lose a game in a group that should have been a complete doddle. First time in ten years that we have lost a qualifier, even under the complete disaster (apparently) that was Roy Hodgson we managed to avoid defeat in them.

I do get fed up of people holding Southgate up as being Corberan. We managed to beat a few poor teams at the World Cup and lost eveyr game when we came up against anyone half decent...he is just not a good manager, when it comes to the crunch decisions he just is not up to it. We have a superb young squad now with the fruits of the under 17 world cup winning squad coming through which will be wasted under his watch.

Agreed he's vile less than average manager whose probably got his next pizza hut advert sorted for when he finally gets the boot.

gazberg

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 17044
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3179 on: November 30, 2019, 05:55:30 PM »
Euro 2020 group D  :-

England
Croatia
Czech republic
Scotland/Israel,Serbia/Norway. (play off winner)


England vs Croatia is our first game

Group of death for me is F

Germany, France, Portugal and either =Hungary/Iceland/Romania/Bulgaria (play off winner)

Baggies

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 19779
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3180 on: January 05, 2020, 05:49:42 PM »
These FA Cup 3rd round ties are showing the embarrassment of riches British football has (seemingly) coming through the EPPP plan. While I hate what it has done to clubs like us losing players far too easily, there does seem to be the highest number of young players i’ve ever seen, especially in positions we don’t usually develop.

Curtis Jones has just scored a worldie while Harvey Elliot looks quite brilliant at only 16 for Liverpool here (not to forget Rhian Brewster is also a decent young striker), Phil Foden had another good game and scored what I believe is the 11th senior goal of his career (young defender Harwood-Bellis with his first goal and Tommy Doyle also making appearances), Hamza Choudhury and Harvey Barnes had a good day at Leicester, Callum Hudson-Odoi got another for Chelsea while Fikayo Tomori marshalled another clean sheet, Brandon Williams dealt well with Adama Traore for Man U while Mason Greenwood got another start and Jake Vokins at 19 getting his first goal from left back for Southampton. Tomorrow Arsenal will likely field Bukayo Sako, Joe Willock, Emile Smith-Rowe, Ashley Maitland-Nile’s and Reiss Nelson.

Even Wales and the Rep of Ireland are benefitting with Will Smallbone, Adam Idah, Dan James, Neco Williams, Dara O’Shea and, while not actually used today, Troy Parrott being on the bench for Spurs.

The rest of the world will hate it, but the money in Europe was already giving a select group of nations an unfair advantage, and it looks like we have taken advantage. We had a squad good enough to make a World Cup semi final back in 2018, we have a host of options in addition to that squad already waiting to get their chance (Grealish, Maddison, Barkley, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Wan Bissaka, Alexander-Arnold, Abraham, Rice, Winks, Chilwell, Shaw, Mount and Sancho who yes, are already in the team etc), and then you have this third wave of kids who are showing how good they could be.

At some stage in the next decade, I will be very surprised if we don’t end up with the mother of all summer parties at one of the next 6 tournaments.
Boing Boing

Baggies

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 19779
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3181 on: May 02, 2020, 10:31:43 AM »
England fans who are a bit of a glutton for punishment, today’s the day for you.

On the BBC 1 FIFA World Cup rewind this lunchtime, you have England vs Argentina from 1998. On BBC Wales at the same time (also available on catch up - BBC Wales MOTD), Wales 1-0 England from the final ever home nations championship in 1984.

Been watching a lot of the old football on BBC these last couple of months and it really hits home how much we have underperformed for a nation of our size.

1 solitary major tournament final, compared to Germany (14 finals), Italy (9), France (6), Spain (5), Netherlands (5 if counting nations league), Soviet Union (4), Yugoslavia/Croatia (3), Portugal (3 if counting nations league), Czech and Hungary (both 2).

Really hope this new generation of players can make it right. There isn’t a nation our size with such a poor record in Europe.
Boing Boing

Standaman

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 7986
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3182 on: May 02, 2020, 04:04:37 PM »
Seeing England's major tournament record laid out like that brings it home how generally disappointing we have been.

I am not sure what par would have been over the same period 5 maybe. Spain until relatively recently were seen as international football's great under achievers. Yet one golden generation from 2008 to 2012 have glossed over 25 years of relative mediocrity.

I am fairly sure that the reasons for our relative failure is deeply ingrained in our football culture.

Some of the issues have started to be addressed and I think the influence of continental players and more critically coaches will have an impact on our players.

 
Standaman - Born to be a Baggie.

TheJacko2000

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 14714
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3183 on: May 02, 2020, 07:48:59 PM »
Can anyone explain why the England team between say 76 and 86 was so poor? We were dominating Europe at club level with a variety of clubs, I realise a portion of the top players at those clubs were home nations nationals as opposed to English but surely it was not a majority?


Edit. Sorry should have added it's before my time...
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.

seteefeet

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 4114
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3184 on: May 02, 2020, 09:12:04 PM »
Can anyone explain why the England team between say 76 and 86 was so poor? We were dominating Europe at club level with a variety of clubs, I realise a portion of the top players at those clubs were home nations nationals as opposed to English but surely it was not a majority?


Edit. Sorry should have added it's before my time...
I think you've hit the nail on the head mate that the top teams were made up of the best of British. That's only from memory though, maybe state say otherwise but I always thought that a GB 11 would be e won a major trophy.
Think the FA had a lot to do with it as well though in that players from "lesser" clubs never got a look in.
If you take the Baggies alone and count the caps of Statham, Cunningham, Regis , Wile and Bomber, it's disgraceful.

P Anderson

  • Site Donator
  • Junior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 199
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3185 on: May 02, 2020, 10:56:33 PM »
One of the best managers at the time was ‘big head’ clough, never given a chance as he had his own mind and even bigger opinions. I’ll never know how we got so far in the 86 World Cup, as it seemed like a big jolly up as soon as the got of the plane
Submariners go deeper

Standaman

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 7986
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3186 on: May 03, 2020, 12:38:50 AM »
Can anyone explain why the England team between say 76 and 86 was so poor? We were dominating Europe at club level with a variety of clubs, I realise a portion of the top players at those clubs were home nations nationals as opposed to English but surely it was not a majority?


Edit. Sorry should have added it's before my time...

So many reasons. This was the point where the FA were living up to the phrase "professional game run by amateurs" it is hard under estimate the drag this had on the national team. For instance when Kevin Keegan moved to Hamburg there was a very real debate about whether or not he would be selected for England because he had moved abroad.

In general we were slipping behind the best both technically and tactically and to some extent sucess at club level  masked this. Both Liverpool and Forest were coherent and well oiled units to some degree both were better than the sum of their parts the opposite could be said of the national team.

 As has been pointed out throughout this period both Forest and Liverpool had key players who weren't English. For younger readers I know this might be hard to comprehend but for most of the decade had there been a combined UK team the first 5 outfield players on the team sheet would have been Scottish.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2020, 09:31:50 AM by Standaman »
Standaman - Born to be a Baggie.

Baggies

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 19779
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3187 on: May 03, 2020, 09:20:57 AM »

I am not sure what par would have been over the same period 5 maybe. Spain until relatively recently were seen as international football's great under achievers. Yet one golden generation from 2008 to 2012 have glossed over 25 years of relative mediocrity.


Spain were certainly under achievers, but even they had been to 2 major finals (winning 1), prior to their modern golden era.
Boing Boing

Baggies

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 19779
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3188 on: May 03, 2020, 09:45:00 AM »
Can anyone explain why the England team between say 76 and 86 was so poor? We were dominating Europe at club level with a variety of clubs, I realise a portion of the top players at those clubs were home nations nationals as opposed to English but surely it was not a majority?


Edit. Sorry should have added it's before my time...

Growing up, I always used to wonder this too. As Stan and Seteefeet have said, it seems to be a few factors. I had a look at the home championship tournament records and while England won more than the rest, throughout the 70's Scotland won as many as England and Northern Ireland won 2 of the last 4 tournaments (I think we put out weakened sides near the end).

Scotland and Northern Ireland had decent tournament qualification records around the time English club sides dominated and even Wales came close to qualifying a few times so it seems we did have 4 strong nations worth of players to puck from (not forgetting the Republic of Ireland who also provided lots of players to the English game). I've always been told that Scotland produced a lot of flair players too, so maybe this aided our club sides (a type of player we developed less of possibly).

When i've read up on it though, the FA do seem to get a lot of the blame. It was a very poor set up as Seteefeet has said.

Other factors could include the fact so many tournaments were hosted in hot nations with sun baked pitches (in contrast to our boggy ones of the time), although this doesn't explain our poor qualification record, as well as the tough English seasons maybe taking something out of our players by the time tournaments came around. The world cuo games from the 70's in particular look very slow compared to Englush foot all which was high intensity.
Boing Boing

Standaman

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 7986
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3189 on: May 03, 2020, 01:19:14 PM »
Spain were certainly under achievers, but even they had been to 2 major finals (winning 1), prior to their modern golden era.

By any measure England have been the laggards of the major footballing nations. The comparison with Spain being that one exceptional side could quite quickly give us a bit of respectability in terms of final appearances. I don't believe that we are close to that we in are in a better place than we have been on many occasions since 1966 but as the song went in '96 "30 years of hurt" well we are at 54 years of hurt and counting.

To be honest looking at the nadir which was from the mid 70's through to the mid 80's and ask the question what was wrong? Answer, just about everything.

At the time we weren't even asking the right questions.

In 1974 because of the England's failure to qualify for the World Cup I watched Holland and fell in love with Dutch football As a impressionable 13 year old decided that as a Centre Half Rudi Krol was a my new role model. It really didn't end well when I started to bring the ball out from the back the watching PE teacher bellowed "Who do think you are Joanne Cryuff (the mispronunciation was entirely deliberate I think)"  Me "No Sir Rudi Kroll" PE teacher "You're not him neither whoever he is). That pretty much summed things up.

English football was insular incapable of learning lessons from anywhere else. We failed we kept on failing but we never looked beyond the end of our own noses.
Standaman - Born to be a Baggie.

Baggies

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 19779
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3190 on: May 03, 2020, 03:09:45 PM »
BBC red button and on the website - the England 1-0 Argentina from the 2002 World Cup.
Boing Boing

Baggies

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 19779
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3191 on: May 03, 2020, 03:20:14 PM »
By any measure England have been the laggards of the major footballing nations. The comparison with Spain being that one exceptional side could quite quickly give us a bit of respectability in terms of final appearances.

Good point. While I doubt the coming generation is anywhere near as special as the La Masia driven side, I do think there is a chance that we will finally make some finals over the next decade, and the financial gulf between Europe and the rest of the world means we should do more over the next 50 years as well.

I’d be shocked if we are still in this situation when I reach 60.
Boing Boing

Albionic

  • Site Donator
  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 7677
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3192 on: May 03, 2020, 10:42:07 PM »
Good point. While I doubt the coming generation is anywhere near as special as the La Masia driven side, I do think there is a chance that we will finally make some finals over the next decade, and the financial gulf between Europe and the rest of the world means we should do more over the next 50 years as well.

I’d be shocked if we are still in this situation when I reach 60.

i dunno how old you are, but be prepared to be shocked
the road to the summit has dips, keep the faith when navigating those dips !!
Albion Family !!!

alex1

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 5941
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3193 on: May 04, 2020, 12:26:37 PM »

In 1974 because of the England's failure to qualify for the World Cup I watched Holland and fell in love with Dutch football As a impressionable 13 year old decided that as a Centre Half Rudi Krol was a my new role model. It really didn't end well when I started to bring the ball out from the back the watching PE teacher bellowed "Who do think you are Joanne Cryuff (the mispronunciation was entirely deliberate I think)"  Me "No Sir Rudi Kroll" PE teacher "You're not him neither whoever he is).

I too was a fan of Ruud Krol. He used to get forward from his left back position seemingly winning all tackles because he was so powerful on the ball. At right back in that team you had his Ajax teammate Wim Suurbier. Suurbier was incredibly fast and used to creep around the outside of defences with his turn of pace. But he got caught out of position alot and ended up making alot of crude tackles. Overall though, Krol is the best full back I've ever seen. 

« Last Edit: May 04, 2020, 12:29:59 PM by alex1 »
Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

Standaman

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 7986
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3194 on: May 04, 2020, 01:21:18 PM »
My ongoing admiration for Dutch football dates from 1974 in truth I find the poor spells from the Dutch national side more vexing than those from England. To a degree my expectations are out of whack Netherlands after all is a nation with less than half the population of England. Yet they have managed to give football 2 genuinely great teams one of which was ephoc defining.



« Last Edit: May 04, 2020, 02:17:06 PM by Standaman »
Standaman - Born to be a Baggie.

TheJacko2000

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 14714
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3195 on: May 04, 2020, 04:28:50 PM »
Thanks for all the insights lads.
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.

alex1

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 5941
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3196 on: May 04, 2020, 06:14:29 PM »
My ongoing admiration for Dutch football dates from 1974 in truth I find the poor spells from the Dutch national side more vexing than those from England. To a degree my expectations are out of whack Netherlands after all is a nation with less than half the population of England. Yet they have managed to give football 2 genuinely great teams one of which was ephoc defining.
The Dutch had enough chances to have beaten Germany in the 1974 final, but after taking an early 1-0 lead, they tried to rub the Germans noses in it with lots of showboating. Still lots of post-war memories. The Germans got back into it from a penalty which the Dutch claimed was a dive, and then Muller got the winner. They got to the final again in 1978, and when it was 1-1 close to the end, they hit the post. Argentina went on to win 3-1 in extra time.
The finals were hosted in Germany and Argentina respectivaly, and the Dutch still feel everything was against them. However, I think the 1974 team was probably the best team never to win the world ciup.
Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

Baggies

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 19779
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3197 on: May 04, 2020, 11:52:44 PM »
Looking at what they have coming through now, there might be another Dutch golden era coming. One of the dark horses for the next 2 major tournaments.
Boing Boing

Baggies

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 19779
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3198 on: May 05, 2020, 12:25:38 AM »
i dunno how old you are, but be prepared to be shocked

I’ve had my fair share of hurt as an England fan so I know not to get too carried away, but football has followed an increasing pattern in recent years of European domination (2 of the last 4 world cup semi finals have had entirely European line ups, and all of the last 4 World Cups have been won by a European nation who also have one of the “big 5” leagues).

I’ve seen a fair bit written about the trends that suggest the money that the big leagues are generating is starting to give a widening advantage over the rest of the world and this will increasingly play into our hands.

The money being put into youth development in England now is at a record high, arguably evidenced by the upturn in performance by the Welsh national team in addition to ours who benefit via their English pyramid club sides as well as dual nationals.

There is no guarantee of course, Germany, Spain and France are producing just as many players as us, while Italy, Portugal, Netherlands and Belgium have brilliant programmes, but our last 2 tournament performances have been promising (World cup and Nations League) and you can pair that with a number of highly successful age grade teams winning things from the Under 16s up to the under 20’s in the last 4 years (ignoring 2019’s youth results blip).

There hasn’t been a time in my life when we have had such a variety of high quality youth players between the ages of 16-23 as we do right now. Sancho, Greenwood, Alexander-Arnold, Hudson-Odoi, Foden, Harvey Elliot, Maddison, Mount as well as others like Grealish, Reece James, Bellingham etc. If only a quarter of these players fulfil their potential, that is still a very strong core of high quality players.

I’ve never been so confident that England will break the bad streak sooner rather than later.
Boing Boing

TheJacko2000

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 14714
Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3199 on: May 05, 2020, 02:16:52 AM »
I’ve had my fair share of hurt as an England fan so I know not to get too carried away, but football has followed an increasing pattern in recent years of European domination (2 of the last 4 world cup semi finals have had entirely European line ups, and all of the last 4 World Cups have been won by a European nation who also have one of the “big 5” leagues).

I’ve seen a fair bit written about the trends that suggest the money that the big leagues are generating is starting to give a widening advantage over the rest of the world and this will increasingly play into our hands.

The money being put into youth development in England now is at a record high, arguably evidenced by the upturn in performance by the Welsh national team in addition to ours who benefit via their English pyramid club sides as well as dual nationals.

There is no guarantee of course, Germany, Spain and France are producing just as many players as us, while Italy, Portugal, Netherlands and Belgium have brilliant programmes, but our last 2 tournament performances have been promising (World cup and Nations League) and you can pair that with a number of highly successful age grade teams winning things from the Under 16s up to the under 20’s in the last 4 years (ignoring 2019’s youth results blip).

There hasn’t been a time in my life when we have had such a variety of high quality youth players between the ages of 16-23 as we do right now. Sancho, Greenwood, Alexander-Arnold, Hudson-Odoi, Foden, Harvey Elliot, Maddison, Mount as well as others like Grealish, Reece James, Bellingham etc. If only a quarter of these players fulfil their potential, that is still a very strong core of high quality players.

I’ve never been so confident that England will break the bad streak sooner rather than later.


Will need a new manager ASAP. Southgate has never got a good performance out of them when up against even slightly superior opposition.
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.