[Standaman]

Probably a fair few covering for Jake giving the ball away

Sawyers has lost possession more often and had more unsuccessful touches than Livermore.

I know this is deeply ingrained but Livermore 3.0 is a significant upgrade on the earlier versions that were running on the old analogue Pulis based platform and fans of the WBA game franchise need to find a new multi purpose gripe.

[Albionic]

Sawyers has lost possession more often and had more unsuccessful touches than Livermore.

I know this is deeply ingrained but Livermore 3.0 is a significant upgrade on the earlier versions that were running on the old analogue Pulis based platform and fans of the WBA game franchise need to find a new multi purpose gripe.

Please Stan, please do not use that Americansportspeak,  does my swede in, proper, like!

Many thanks in anticipation

[skyclad99]

Stan is bang on the money though...……

Great post

[Albionic]

Stan is bang on the money though...……

Great post

Sam is still in the frame though !

[Standaman]

Please Stan, please do not use that Americansportspeak,  does my swede in, proper, like!

Many thanks in anticipation

Sorry just paradying video game speak. Chill dude.

[frazzle]

Sawyers has lost possession more often and had more unsuccessful touches than Livermore.

I know this is deeply ingrained but Livermore 3.0 is a significant upgrade on the earlier versions that were running on the old analogue Pulis based platform and fans of the WBA game franchise need to find a new multi purpose gripe.

Exactly. For some on here they just can’t let it go. I think what we are seeing now is the real Livermore.

[baggie82]

Sawyers has lost possession more often and had more unsuccessful touches than Livermore.

I know this is deeply ingrained but Livermore 3.0 is a significant upgrade on the earlier versions that were running on the old analogue Pulis based platform and fans of the WBA game franchise need to find a new multi purpose gripe.

Unfortunately what you’ve said above is plain wrong.
-Sawyers has made 704 passes this season, average of 62 per game with a pass completion rate of 92%.
-Livermore has made 462 passes, average of 42 per game with a pass completion of 84%.

Sawyers makes on average 20 passes a game more than Livermore and has a higher pass completion rate. Jake is playing much better this season but he’s not a patch on Romaine and never will be.

Anyone interested can find the player stats here:
https://www.infogol.net/en/team/west-bromwich-albion/168

[boingboing1989]

Unfortunately what you’ve said above is plain wrong.
-Sawyers has made 704 passes this season, average of 62 per game with a pass completion rate of 92%.
-Livermore has made 462 passes, average of 42 per game with a pass completion of 84%.

Sawyers makes on average 20 passes a game more than Livermore and has a higher pass completion rate. Jake is playing much better this season but he’s not a patch on Romaine and never will be.

Anyone interested can find the player stats here:
https://www.infogol.net/en/team/west-bromwich-albion/168

Any stats on how many times Romaine has been dispossessed of the ball as he's done that an awful lot more than Jake Livermore this season. Don't get me wrong Romaine is absolutely brilliant but he needs Livermore doing the dirty work for him. Livermore is another who has been branded 'poor' and will never lose that tag with some people despite being Mr Consistent this season.

[TheJacko2000]

He's been Mr Consistent throughout his tenure at the club. Consistently poor.

[Standaman]

Unfortunately what you’ve said above is plain wrong.
-Sawyers has made 704 passes this season, average of 62 per game with a pass completion rate of 92%.
-Livermore has made 462 passes, average of 42 per game with a pass completion of 84%.

Sawyers makes on average 20 passes a game more than Livermore and has a higher pass completion rate. Jake is playing much better this season but he’s not a patch on Romaine and never will be.

Anyone interested can find the player stats here:
https://www.infogol.net/en/team/west-bromwich-albion/168

The quote I was responding to was suggesting that Sawyers was covering for Livermore's loss of possession. The relevant stat is not pass completion but dispossession available on Who Scored Sawyers 1.2 per 90 v Livermore 0.6 per 90.

[frazzle]

He's been Mr Consistent throughout his tenure at the club. Consistently poor.

Not now though. He is quite clearly playing well now.

[boinging_along]

Unfortunately what you’ve said above is plain wrong.
-Sawyers has made 704 passes this season, average of 62 per game with a pass completion rate of 92%.
-Livermore has made 462 passes, average of 42 per game with a pass completion of 84%.

Sawyers makes on average 20 passes a game more than Livermore and has a higher pass completion rate. Jake is playing much better this season but he’s not a patch on Romaine and never will be.

Anyone interested can find the player stats here:
https://www.infogol.net/en/team/west-bromwich-albion/168

You would also need to take into account where the passes are made. Livermore has been playing more forward than Sawyers.

[johnnyg]

He's been Mr Consistent throughout his tenure at the club. Consistently poor.

At least you are consistent yourself. Consistently wrong.

[Adder]

As usual with stats there are numerous possible contributing factors. Sawyers will be seen as our play-maker and so teams will be attempting to disrupt his game as much as possible. Stating the obvious the important things is that Livermore and Sawyers are playing well in the heart of the team.

[KN22]

He's been Mr Consistent throughout his tenure at the club. Consistently poor.

That is simply no longer true.

[Albionic]

The quote I was responding to was suggesting that Sawyers was covering for Livermore's loss of possession. The relevant stat is not pass completion but dispossession available on Who Scored Sawyers 1.2 per 90 v Livermore 0.6 per 90.

Surely a stay that needs context, if I attempt 1000 passed and complete 80%, but Jacko attempts 100 and completed 90% is Jacko a better player also if I attempt to pass through the eye of a needle to create match defining situations whereas Jacko simply drops the ball off to a more positive player are the numbers relevant? Let's be honest here Romaine is a far better player technically than Jake and has contributed more to us being where we are, not withstanding that the recent performances from Jake are far better than previously seen

[Standaman]

Surely a stay that needs context, if I attempt 1000 passed and complete 80%, but Jacko attempts 100 and completed 90% is Jacko a better player also if I attempt to pass through the eye of a needle to create match defining situations whereas Jacko simply drops the ball off to a more positive player are the numbers relevant? Let's be honest here Romaine is a far better player technically than Jake and has contributed more to us being where we are, not withstanding that the recent performances from Jake are far better than previously seen

I am not even trying to argue the case that Livermore is better than Sawyers all I am saying is that Sawyers is not covering for Livermore being dispossessed which is something quite specific.  They are different players they compliment each other they are not particularly interchangeable although they tend to occupy the same space on the pitch.

[seteefeet]

Jacko's right though, he has been consistently poor since he's been here. We have had a few false dawns, in the past, where he looks like he's found his feet but he's never sustained it. Maybe this time he will, I certainly hope so, because him and Sawyers have looked decent in recent weeks. Needs to keep it going a bit longer and continue to improve though, before I'm fully convinced.
Stats get thrown about like confetti, I prefer to trust my own eyes and what I see is a player who has been poor for a few seasons, getting better, and I think it's down to having better players around him and a system that suits him.

[tommcneill]

I think Livermore has been excellent this season myself, but as with everyone in that team there is still room for improvement. Thats the most exciting thing for me, top, playing well and can still get better.

I will call out Livermore when he is playing badly, I will also credit him when he is playing well. Pretty much how I treat all players.

Lets not have a scapegoat and be blinded by previous bad performances so that we cannot see or give credit when he plays well.

[skyclad99]

I think Livermore has been excellent this season myself, but as with everyone in that team there is still room for improvement. Thats the most exciting thing for me, top, playing well and can still get better.

I will call out Livermore when he is playing badly, I will also credit him when he is playing well. Pretty much how I treat all players.

Lets not have a scapegoat and be blinded by previous bad performances so that we cannot see or give credit when he plays well.

Sensible post Tom, and my thoughts entirely.

Many of our players were poor under Pulis, not just Jake. Unfortunately some of us always have to blame someone...….

I thought Jake was excellent on Saturday, a real workhorse who got stuck in and made things happen. I really am not in the slightest bit bothered about who has completed the most successful passes etc, all I am seeing is Jake and Romaine working together as a very solid unit in front of the defence, and them working to cover each other when required. Something we have not seen for quite some time......long may it continue.

[KN22]

Sensible post Tom, and my thoughts entirely.

Many of our players were poor under Pulis, not just Jake. Unfortunately some of us always have to blame someone...….

I thought Jake was excellent on Saturday, a real workhorse who got stuck in and made things happen. I really am not in the slightest bit bothered about who has completed the most successful passes etc, all I am seeing is Jake and Romaine working together as a very solid unit in front of the defence, and them working to cover each other when required. Something we have not seen for quite some time......long may it continue.

How very true. We do have to be concerned about who takes over when one of them is not available though. I see no obvious candidate other than Barry if available. Krovinovic would not, in my view, work well in the deeper lying roles that these guys operate.

[Albionic]

How very true. We do have to be concerned about who takes over when one of them is not available though. I see no obvious candidate other than Barry if available. Krovinovic would not, in my view, work well in the deeper lying roles that these guys operate.

 Barry / Harper / Field (re-call) / Ajayi (Hegazi back) / Brunt, in that order

[tuamigos]

How very true. We do have to be concerned about who takes over when one of them is not available though. I see no obvious candidate other than Barry if available. Krovinovic would not, in my view, work well in the deeper lying roles that these guys operate.

We have the option of using Ajayi in there as well in an emergency once Hegazi is up and running

[GREGMT]

Midfield is like Night and Day when compared to 2018/19 season.  I maintained that we conceded far too many shots from 20 yards simply because the midfield weren't energetic enough to close down.  Many people solely pointed the finger at Johnstone/Bartley. 

No need to re-sign Barry (Harper would be better), Morrison hasn't re-signed anywhere and pretty sure Brunt doesn't want to move house to play elsewhere.

[geoff]

I think Jacko is right in saying, He's been Mr Consistent throughout his tenure at the club. Consistently poor,
but this season he has stepped up his allround game & one could say he's been Mr Consistent since the start of the season.