[baggiejohn]

With all due respect John, I think you're going round in circles a bit - your final sentence says all that need to be said, this sector should not be run on "entrepreneurial" lines at all, involving risk taking and profit making by being "close to the edge" - if it ends up being "inefficient" in those terms, what does that actually mean?  An extra staff member working now and then?  Food being of a higher quality that is necessary to keep body and soul together?  A bigger, nicer garden than is absolutely required?

I'm not a Corbynista who wants to nationalise everything, but its gone too far the other way generally, and this (along with prisons and other parts of the justice system) is just not civilised.

yes

[skyclad99]

Just wondering if people on here believe that the threat is more or less over now or do we still need to be very cautious. By the pictures in the press today (see link for an example), it isn't just a "few idiots" that believe we can go back to normal now, it's large amounts of the general public.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/uk-weather-crowds-hit-beaches-despite-lockdown-as-met-office-confirms-hottest-day-of-the-year/ar-BB14nILQ?ocid=msedgntp

My personal view is that this is far from over. I am of the opinion that the long term aim of the government is to get to herd immunity, as it clearly cannot be beaten by total lockdown due to the unrest of the general populus regarding restriction. From the outset the Government have said 'protect the NHS' and they did to a degree and prevented mass overloading. With the easement of lock down it is almost as if they are expecting further exposure and an increase in cases. Watching US tv yesterday the commentator said that they have had 5 pandemics in their history, and none have been beaten by lockdown, more by herd immunity, and that has to be at least 60/70% of the population to have had the infection. So I am of the view that the Government and scientists know what they are doing, and that further infections are inevitable regardless of what we do. If we were to come up with a vaccine then the storyline will change, but until then I cannot see this being over this year.   

[TheJacko2000]

Just wondering if people on here believe that the threat is more or less over now or do we still need to be very cautious. By the pictures in the press today (see link for an example), it isn't just a "few idiots" that believe we can go back to normal now, it's large amounts of the general public.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/uk-weather-crowds-hit-beaches-despite-lockdown-as-met-office-confirms-hottest-day-of-the-year/ar-BB14nILQ?ocid=msedgntp

You cannot account for the idiot gene. Despite anecdotal evidence like the coastal pictures, McDonald's queues etc. It's still a very small minority.

[kc56wba]

You cannot account for the idiot gene. Despite anecdotal evidence like the coastal pictures, McDonald's queues etc. It's still a very small minority.

A very small minority is true but a small minority spreading the virus could cause the 'R' rate to go over 1 and we will be back into a stricter lockdown.

[baggiejohn]

Just wondering if people on here believe that the threat is more or less over now or do we still need to be very cautious. By the pictures in the press today (see link for an example), it isn't just a "few idiots" that believe we can go back to normal now, it's large amounts of the general public.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/uk-weather-crowds-hit-beaches-despite-lockdown-as-met-office-confirms-hottest-day-of-the-year/ar-BB14nILQ?ocid=msedgntp

On the evening briefings, I pay close attention to the medics & scientists.

Van Tam said recently, that they don't know for sure, but if it follows the pattern of other coronaviruses, there will be a fall-off in cases in the summer months. The spanish flu outbreak in 1918, for example, followed that pattern, but then came back with a vengance the following winter.
I believe the medical & scientific group, are attempting to ensure that the 1918 experience isn't replicated.

[BoingFlyer]

The Spanish flu came back with a vengeance because it mutated This virus is also capable of mutating. What we have is the new norm and society needs to adjust and accept it. Continuing lockdown when the NHS is not over stretched is madness.

[skyclad99]

The Spanish flu came back with a vengeance because it mutated This virus is also capable of mutating. What we have is the new norm and society needs to adjust and accept it. Continuing lockdown when the NHS is not over stretched is madness.

Its more to do with controlling the rate of infection to me. If we lift lockdown now and everything goes back to normal, not only will the hospitals be rammed but we will see all of the Nightingale hospitals full as well.

[Adder]

The Spanish flu came back with a vengeance because it mutated This virus is also capable of mutating. What we have is the new norm and society needs to adjust and accept it. Continuing lockdown when the NHS is not over stretched is madness.

'Not over stretched' depends on how you look at it - they may have capacity but over 150 NHS workers have died, God knows how many others affected (we don't get that figure) and they must be drained, exhausted and dreading a 2nd wave.

[TheJacko2000]

A very small minority is true but a small minority spreading the virus could cause the 'R' rate to go over 1 and we will be back into a stricter lockdown.

Maybe that is what will be required, compared to Spain, Italy etc. ours was barely a lockdown anyway.

[kc56wba]

Yesterday there was a big gasp of excitement when it was announced that 177,216 coronavirus test were done. Even I thought bloody hell that is brilliant then I read this.

        Tests    People tested   Positive   Deaths in hospitals   Deaths in all settings
Daily   177,216   60,744           2,472    216                            363
Total   2,962,227   1,996,648           248,293    28,970                    35,704

60,744 people tested is low and I just wish the government will say how many PEOPLE have been tested not how many different tests they have done.

[The Black Pearl]

The Spanish flu came back with a vengeance because it mutated This virus is also capable of mutating. What we have is the new norm and society needs to adjust and accept it. Continuing lockdown when the NHS is not over stretched is madness.

I presume you are a younger man, not obese, not diabetic, no pre existing health conditions?

[Droitwich Baggie]

This is the site which I view (bar charts and %)
https://covid19-uk.co.uk/

[timdon]

You cannot account for the idiot gene. Despite anecdotal evidence like the coastal pictures, McDonald's queues etc. It's still a very small minority.

Depends on what you mean by very small really. Given our population, even 2% would equate to over a million people, and it's a lot more than that. The survey below certainly suggests that increasing numbers of people have stopped following the guidelines or at least are "cheating". Don't think you can entirely put it down to an "idiot gene", unless you think that large numbers of young people have the gene (which would mean that their parents do too).

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/young-adults-not-strictly-sticking-to-lockdown-rules-study-says/ar-BB14nK3a?ocid=msedgntp

[The Black Pearl]

Depends on what you mean by very small really. Given our population, even 2% would equate to over a million people, and it's a lot more than that. The survey below certainly suggests that increasing numbers of people have stopped following the guidelines or at least are "cheating". Don't think you can entirely put it down to an "idiot gene", unless you think that large numbers of young people have the gene (which would mean that their parents do too).

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/young-adults-not-strictly-sticking-to-lockdown-rules-study-says/ar-BB14nK3a?ocid=msedgntp

The government anticipate the idiot factor in their calculations, that's why they don't let people meet behind closed doors

[baggiejohn]

The Spanish flu came back with a vengeance because it mutated This virus is also capable of mutating. What we have is the new norm and society needs to adjust and accept it. Continuing lockdown when the NHS is not over stretched is madness.

Think mutation was a factor, but lung damage to troops from mustard gas was a bigger factor, none the less, the medical specialists are predicting a second wave this time.

Going on to your second point, I agree wholeheartedly that where we are now is the new norm, we can't stay in lockdown for ever, & there has to be a managed progression out.

[leeiswba]

Yesterday there was a big gasp of excitement when it was announced that 177,216 coronavirus test were done. Even I thought bloody hell that is brilliant then I read this.

        Tests    People tested   Positive   Deaths in hospitals   Deaths in all settings
Daily   177,216   60,744           2,472    216                            363
Total   2,962,227   1,996,648           248,293    28,970                    35,704

60,744 people tested is low and I just wish the government will say how many PEOPLE have been tested not how many different tests they have done.

Ive seen this a few times and this is a genuine question that I have no knowledge on but has there been 60,744 people tested because this is only the amount of people that have come forward or require a test?

I mean I don't know anybody who wants a test or in need of a test and cant get one.

Are there people out there who desperately need a test and cant get one because we haven't got the capacity?

[The Black Pearl]

Not to my knowledge, testing now seem to exist for anyone who needs one, Gotcha mentality will have to move somewhere else now.

[BoingFlyer]

I presume you are a younger man, not obese, not diabetic, no pre existing health conditions?

You presume wrong, put it this way im eligible for the seasonal flu vaccine on the NHS. What we have is the new norm and people will always put their desire to put food on the table over the greater good. This goverment fund jolly can't last much longer. You have some people working and trying to home school while several million other people are treating it as an all expenses paid holiday. Something has to give.

[kc56wba]

Ive seen this a few times and this is a genuine question that I have no knowledge on but has there been 60,744 people tested because this is only the amount of people that have come forward or require a test?

I mean I don't know anybody who wants a test or in need of a test and cant get one.

Are there people out there who desperately need a test and cant get one because we haven't got the capacity?

Well if only 60,744 people were tested yesterday one as to ask how many went to the Covid - 19 testing stations of which there are 50 Regional Test Sites that have been set up by the Department of Health and Social Care also The Department of Health and Social Care is currently supporting 25 NHS trusts with satellite test sites for their staff.

Everyone aged five and over in the UK with coronavirus symptoms can now be tested for the disease. If you think you need a coronavirus test you can arrange to visit a regional test site. Alternatively, you can ask for a home test kit - although these have been in short supply.

At first the British Medical Association said accessing centres was a major problem, with some people having to drive hundreds of miles to their nearest site.

New testing centres have since been opened, although people must still have access to a car and someone to drive them - or be well enough to drive themselves.

Now the government is working towards a fresh target to get to 200,000 tests a day by the end of May, but this figure seems to refer to testing "capacity", not the actual number of tests carried out.

So I believe the " capacity " is there.

[leeiswba]

If the capacity is there but there isn't actually 100k-200k people per day who want a test is there a problem? Surely it is a good thing?

Or have I misunderstood?

[The Black Pearl]

You presume wrong, put it this way im eligible for the seasonal flu vaccine on the NHS. What we have is the new norm and people will always put their desire to put food on the table over the greater good. This goverment fund jolly can't last much longer. You have some people working and trying to home school while several million other people are treating it as an all expenses paid holiday. Something has to give.

I do agree, we have to find a new way, I do fear that some people are looking for a new norm that would be catastrophic, for instance, pubs reopening their beer gardens with strict social distancing and table service is probably okay, people crowding at a bar or close confines inside is madness.

[kc56wba]

If the capacity is there but there isn't actually 100k-200k people per day who want a test is there a problem? Surely it is a good thing?

Or have I misunderstood?

So why do they say they have done 100k - 200k tests if these people dont want a test?

[BoingFlyer]

I do agree, we have to find a new way, I do fear that some people are looking for a new norm that would be catastrophic, for instance, pubs reopening their beer gardens with strict social distancing and table service is probably okay, people crowding at a bar or close confines inside is madness.

I agree, I cant see any place where you congregate inside for leisure opening any time soon. We need to find the new norm where kids can get an education and people return to work while not over whelming the NHS.

[WoysWunderful]

Just came off a conference call, looks like the pub industry are going with July 4th reopening, most back mis/late june. going to be very different when They do open though guys. Also my company is fine to not open in July if there is another spike but spoons and one other (mnb I think reading between the lines) are in serious trouble if they are not able to open/have to close again. Next 12 months I expect a lot if not a majority of companies go under u less there is a miracle.

[mulliganstired]

The Spanish flu came back with a vengeance because it mutated This virus is also capable of mutating. What we have is the new norm and society needs to adjust and accept it. Continuing lockdown when the NHS is not over stretched is madness.

If anyone really knows please feel free to correct me, but don't viruses usually mutate to become less deadly? - they need us alive as hosts to pass on the bugs, as with colds/flu.