[KingKoren]

He and Galloway have a virus according to the Express and Star.

[adamw1109]

Err, around £20m?

But we ain't losing £20m, we didn't pay £20m for him... yes we have invested money into the academy and time and effort into him, but there's a lot of players we have invested time in (youth players that is), not everyone of them are going to make us any profit so does it really matter if we don't get anything for him aslong as the situation is sorted?

[kamarasboot]

But we ain't losing £20m, we didn't pay £20m for him... yes we have invested money into the academy and time and effort into him, but there's a lot of players we have invested time in (youth players that is), not everyone of them are going to make us any profit so does it really matter if we don't get anything for him aslong as the situation is sorted?

Really? So let's talk through this through - someone gives you painting, you put it into a cupboard. 10 years later you want to use that cupboard but need to clear it out, when clearing it out you find out that the said painting is a master piece and worth 20m - do you just chuck it away because you want the cupboard and situation sorted? Doubt it.

Massive clanger dropped by the hierarchy if he moves abroad and for nothing at the end of his contract, bad enough if we only get half of the 20m for ok tribunal.

Considering we as fans have been hammered with the 'we run the club as a business' line for years this is a massive cock up. Most seem happy to berate Pulis at he moment but this is acceptable because Berahino has acted like a tit? Afraid not, terrible by the club if it pans out like everyone's expecting.

[tommcneill]

Really? So let's talk through this through - someone gives you painting, you put it into a cupboard. 10 years later you want to use that cupboard but need to clear it out, when clearing it out you find out that the said painting is a master piece and worth 20m - do you just chuck it away because you want the cupboard and situation sorted? Doubt it.

Massive clanger dropped by the hierarchy if he moves abroad and for nothing at the end of his contract, bad enough if we only get half of the 20m for ok tribunal.

Considering we as fans have been hammered with the 'we run the club as a business' line for years this is a massive cock up. Most seem happy to berate Pulis at he moment but this is acceptable because Berahino has acted like a tit? Afraid not, terrible by the club if it pans out like everyone's expecting.

I fail to see the comparison...one gains monetary value whilst the others value decreases year on year.

We don't lose 20m, because we haven't shelled out 20m to sign him.

Its a shame as he is now whats called a 'could have been'...let him rot until he goes

[kamarasboot]

I fail to see the comparison...one gains monetary value whilst the others value decreases year on year.

We don't lose 20m, because we haven't shelled out 20m to sign him.

Its a shame as he is now whats called a 'could have been'...let him rot until he goes

How do you fail to see the comparison? - one is given for nothing and worth 20m, one is developed for nothing and worth 20m. Yet the answer is let him rot until he goes?

If your argument is he cost us nothing then we lose nothing it's just plain daft. Irrelevant of what the kid has done or is doing we could have taken 20m for him. Now ask yourself since that offer have we had 20m in value from him. I'd argue nowhere near, he's hardly played the club should have took the 20m, but because he's been a tit we seem to be accepting of the situation???

And if we think the club are some sort of ground breakers holding him to his contract and not giving in to player power then we're mistaken, all we've done is shoot our selves in the foot and cut our noses off the spite our face.

[adamw1109]

Really? So let's talk through this through - someone gives you painting, you put it into a cupboard. 10 years later you want to use that cupboard but need to clear it out, when clearing it out you find out that the said painting is a master piece and worth 20m - do you just chuck it away because you want the cupboard and situation sorted? Doubt it.

We're not just 'chucking him away', for a start he's been out of form for some time which is a shame because at times he shown great potential... whilst I believe in the right team with the right attitude he can be a top player (whoever says he's not any good don't know jack all about football, it's not easy scoring goals in the Prem and he's proved at a young age he can do that quite easily).... but anyone signing him are taking a big gamble due to the publicity he has...it may put other teams off him, if that's his fault or partly other people's fault is a different story that we won't get into. We can't force teams to want to buy him.... why keep him here to not get any game time and when he does he gets played out of position? We are not benefiting from here being here the way things are and he's not exactly kept himself in the shop window has he?.

Massive clanger dropped by the hierarchy if he moves abroad and for nothing at the end of his contract, bad enough if we only get half of the 20m for ok tribunal.

None of us know the facts of offers we received, only rumours but it seems as though the right offer wasn't made. Would you sell something to someone who wasn't giving you what you believe is the right value for it?

Considering we as fans have been hammered with the 'we run the club as a business' line for years this is a massive cock up. Most seem happy to berate Pulis at he moment but this is acceptable because Berahino has acted like a tit? Afraid not, terrible by the club if it pans out like everyone's expecting.

Key part, 'everyone's expecting', when in fact I could put my mortgage on atleast 95% of members on here don't have a clue what's going on at the club although they speak like they do.

If the club or us fans are expecting money for Saido the only real option is for the club to use him and play him regular in his best position, whilst the fans support him and hope he will hit some kind of form and score goals to make clubs interested in him and believe he is worth something... which I believe is never going to happen.

[Standaman]

The truth is there are so many mistakes in this sorry saga it is difficult to know where to begin but everyone is a loser.

The club is almost certainly losing out on a fee either totally or partially depending on where Berahino ends up. The player has wasted two years of his career and may never recover from the set back.

While he has been a bit of an idiot and does deserve the criticism that he gets the club hierarchy haven't played a blinder either.

At the outset of last summer someone should have sat Pulis down and asked the question "What role will Saido have in your team?" If the answer was anything other than "Main striker and I'm looking to play to his strengths" we sell for the best price we can get and reinvest the money. Okay that might have meant we spent £10m on Matt Phillips but even that would be preferable to the current situation which unfortunately was one of the more likely outcomes.

[halifax_baggie]

You are quite right saying he can do what he wants within legal boundaries but ethically its wrong he is just using a loophole to get around a fair compensation payout for the club.
Personally i  would give him the option of staying away from the club and if he did show up put him train ing by himself he is toxic .

Ethics in football 

Give me strength

[tommcneill]

How do you fail to see the comparison? - one is given for nothing and worth 20m, one is developed for nothing and worth 20m. Yet the answer is let him rot until he goes?

If your argument is he cost us nothing then we lose nothing it's just plain daft. Irrelevant of what the kid has done or is doing we could have taken 20m for him. Now ask yourself since that offer have we had 20m in value from him. I'd argue nowhere near, he's hardly played the club should have took the 20m, but because he's been a tit we seem to be accepting of the situation???

And if we think the club are some sort of ground breakers holding him to his contract and not giving in to player power then we're mistaken, all we've done is shoot our selves in the foot and cut our noses off the spite our face.

Because I fail to see the comparison that's why... as I said you are comparing something that increases in value year in year out to something that decreases in value.

You are talking hypothetically whereas I'm talking in fact

No matter what someone is willing to pay at the time it's based on his contract and worth to his owning club at some point he becomes valueless in terms of a fee and a person isn't worth any money to anyone else whereas your painting you seem to like comparing too is and will continue to gain value

Also in your comparison you also fail too see that your painting although given away for free was infact a masterpiece and worth millions to start with whereas our player was worth zilch to start with leaves for zilch so nothing has been lost

If I'm daft thinking like that well I won't say what I think of your mental capabilities comparing a worthless player with an expensive painting

No comparison whatsoever

[adamw1109]

Because I fail to see the comparison that's why... as I said you are comparing something that increases in value year in year out to something that decreases in value.

You are talking hypothetically whereas I'm talking in fact

No matter what someone is willing to pay at the time it's based on his contract and worth to his owning club at some point he becomes valueless in terms of a fee and a person isn't worth any money to anyone else whereas your painting you seem to like comparing too is and will continue to gain value

Also in your comparison you also fail too see that your painting although given away for free was infact a masterpiece and worth millions to start with whereas our player was worth zilch to start with leaves for zilch so nothing has been lost

If I'm daft thinking like that well I won't say what I think of your mental capabilities comparing a worthless player with an expensive painting

No comparison whatsoever

So accurate word for word.

me personally, his attitude and off the pitch antics don't bother me one bit im not paying his wages so i ignore it... i only judge any footballer based on their football and although he shown some great potential that one season when he scored a few goals, we are not seeing the same saido at this moment in time. Be that because of his attitude, the coaching staff, confidence, played out of position or any other reason we can all say this and that but the fact people assume we are loosing out big time is stupid.

like you say we payed zilch for him so if we get zilch back we aint lost anything, we just haven't gained anything other than one season which is past where his goals played part in us stopping up, to see any profit at all from him with a sale we need;

1) a less negative manager/head coach - saido is an attacking player so to play in a defensive side aint no good for him or us, its pointless he's out of place
2) him to be played in his best position - saido is more effective playing off the shoulder of defenders, running onto balls and scoring, he's too short to be winning long balls in the air and his heading aint exactly his strongest point is it
3) when he's warming up we need to either support him or if people cant bring themself to do that, atleast ignore him - booing a player only knocks their confidence even more so its as they say 'don't bite off your nose to spite your face'

that will then put him back in the shop window providing he starts scoring goals...  clubs would then start sniffing around if they saw he can get back to how he was before the whole spurs drama, then just maybe we could get a profit from him.

But 1) we have pulis in charge, 2) the style of play is not going to change just cause we now have chadli and 3) fans are not going to give in.


In reality we have an unhappy player who is now no use to us and a bunch of unhappy fans because he's still at our club, he will leave then we will still have unhappy fans because we never got £20m for him. Can the club ever win? 

[boinging_along]

This idea that we've paid nothing for him so if we get nothing back that's ok is insane.  I'm sorry, the painting comparison is valid.  Just because something cost you nothing does not mean it's ok to get nothing for it.  If I gave you a Ferrari, would you then give it away for nothing?  Like it or not, Berahino is a club asset, that asset's value has gone up and now it has taken a sharp drop.  Or put it this way, if we'd sold him last summer for £3m, should we be chuffed to bits for making £3m profit? 

This summer the board knew he would be out of contract and they knew he wouldn't be signing a new one.  We must of had offers on the table that the board turned down.  He'll go in the summer for less than what we could have got for him all because of poor decisions from the board.

Now, there might be some mitigating circumstances in this.  Maybe no firm offers came in until it was too late so we couldn't go into the season with just HRK and Rondon up top?  Or maybe the offers are less than what we think we'd get from a tribunial (hoho).  BUT regardless, we should have got rid as soon as the window opened and looked to reinvest that money.  Maybe we could have nipped in and got Slimani (for example) with the money we were going to spend + the Berahino money.  Yeah, we might have paid more than we wanted for a player but now that money isn't there and we're stuck with a player who doesn't want to be here.

The club have dropped a massive clanger, maybe not last year, but not selling him this summer was obviously a massive mistake.  As you say, we have an unhappy player that's no use to us, and unhappy fans because he's still at the club. 

The way for the club to "win" was to sell him in the summer and cut their losses.  What the club have done is given us the worst of both worlds. 

[tommcneill]

This idea that we've paid nothing for him so if we get nothing back that's ok is insane.  I'm sorry, the painting comparison is valid.  Just because something cost you nothing does not mean it's ok to get nothing for it.  If I gave you a Ferrari, would you then give it away for nothing?  Like it or not, Berahino is a club asset, that asset's value has gone up and now it has taken a sharp drop.  Or put it this way, if we'd sold him last summer for £3m, should we be chuffed to bits for making £3m profit? 

This summer the board knew he would be out of contract and they knew he wouldn't be signing a new one.  We must of had offers on the table that the board turned down.  He'll go in the summer for less than what we could have got for him all because of poor decisions from the board.

Now, there might be some mitigating circumstances in this.  Maybe no firm offers came in until it was too late so we couldn't go into the season with just HRK and Rondon up top?  Or maybe the offers are less than what we think we'd get from a tribunial (hoho).  BUT regardless, we should have got rid as soon as the window opened and looked to reinvest that money.  Maybe we could have nipped in and got Slimani (for example) with the money we were going to spend + the Berahino money.  Yeah, we might have paid more than we wanted for a player but now that money isn't there and we're stuck with a player who doesn't want to be here.

The club have dropped a massive clanger, maybe not last year, but not selling him this summer was obviously a massive mistake.  As you say, we have an unhappy player that's no use to us, and unhappy fans because he's still at the club. 

The way for the club to "win" was to sell him in the summer and cut their losses.  What the club have done is given us the worst of both worlds.

Why is it insane??

If we went out signed a player for 25m on a 4 yr contract and he then let his contract run down he could move for free and we get nothing.

That for me is more insane than a youth player coming through the ranks breaking through looking the real deal only to then make some huge mistakes lose his ability too play to a standard required and then look to possibly leave and go abroad to screw the club out of a tribunal fee.

The painting comparison is not valid at all in my honest neither is your Ferrari one, because if you gave me a Ferrari but I was already a millionaire and owned a couple of ferraris a Lambo and Porsche there is every possibility I wouldn't care less about the Ferrari you gave me.

Why do people love bringing up analogies that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic and are open to factors that invalidate your analogies completely

[The Black Pearl]

His goals in the 2014/15 season kept us in the division and are worth any transfer fee, if he goes for nothing, we have still done okay out of him.

I don't believe all the manipulation transfer deal paper talk, if it happens, then we could have been more astute, if he leaves for a UK club, we will get compensation, either way, it is what it is.

[Nocky]

This idea that we've paid nothing for him so if we get nothing back that's ok is insane.  I'm sorry, the painting comparison is valid.  Just because something cost you nothing does not mean it's ok to get nothing for it.  If I gave you a Ferrari, would you then give it away for nothing?  Like it or not, Berahino is a club asset, that asset's value has gone up and now it has taken a sharp drop.  Or put it this way, if we'd sold him last summer for £3m, should we be chuffed to bits for making £3m profit? 

This summer the board knew he would be out of contract and they knew he wouldn't be signing a new one.  We must of had offers on the table that the board turned down.  He'll go in the summer for less than what we could have got for him all because of poor decisions from the board.

Now, there might be some mitigating circumstances in this.  Maybe no firm offers came in until it was too late so we couldn't go into the season with just HRK and Rondon up top?  Or maybe the offers are less than what we think we'd get from a tribunial (hoho).  BUT regardless, we should have got rid as soon as the window opened and looked to reinvest that money.  Maybe we could have nipped in and got Slimani (for example) with the money we were going to spend + the Berahino money.  Yeah, we might have paid more than we wanted for a player but now that money isn't there and we're stuck with a player who doesn't want to be here.

The club have dropped a massive clanger, maybe not last year, but not selling him this summer was obviously a massive mistake.  As you say, we have an unhappy player that's no use to us, and unhappy fans because he's still at the club. 

The way for the club to "win" was to sell him in the summer and cut their losses.  What the club have done is given us the worst of both worlds.

All of the above. Crazy to suggest we've not lost out if Saido goes on a free. Sure we got him for nothing but that's 20m we could have used for much needed reinforcements. It's not looking like a good business decision at present.

For a club of our stature and financial resources, the academy should be an important means of generating revenue. Look at how much Southampton have made from selling of their best youngsters. Losing Saido for next to nothing would be a tragedy.

[boinging_along]

Why is it insane??

If we went out signed a player for 25m on a 4 yr contract and he then let his contract run down he could move for free and we get nothing.

That for me is more insane than a youth player coming through the ranks breaking through looking the real deal only to then make some huge mistakes lose his ability too play to a standard required and then look to possibly leave and go abroad to screw the club out of a tribunal fee.

The painting comparison is not valid at all in my honest neither is your Ferrari one, because if you gave me a Ferrari but I was already a millionaire and owned a couple of ferraris a Lambo and Porsche there is every possibility I wouldn't care less about the Ferrari you gave me.

Why do people love bringing up analogies that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic and are open to factors that invalidate your analogies completely

Of course an analogy isn't going to match exactly - otherwise it wouldn't be an analogy.  The whole point of them is to compare they don't have to be a perfect replication.  In the Ferrari example, no, you're not a multimillionaire with loads of Ferrari's, the car just represents the idea of having something of value given to you for next to nothing.

Ignore the analogies then...

Our board could have taken £20m in the summer.  Chose not to.  Now we have a disinterested player who will go for about £5m in the summer. 

Good business decision or not?

Your example is just as bad, if anything it highlights the folly of what we're doing with Berahino. 

If we sign a player for £25m on a 4 year contract, then that's what we're getting.  We know that up front, that's the deal.  We've paid £25m to get this player on a 4 year contract.  If it's allowed to run down and for him to leave that is no different to what the board has done with Berahino except in Berahino's case it's worse because we've turned down what seem to be perfectly reasonable offers.

[tommcneill]

All of the above. Crazy to suggest we've not lost out if Saido goes on a free. Sure we got him for nothing but that's 20m we could have used for much needed reinforcements. It's not looking like a good business decision at present.

For a club of our stature and financial resources, the academy should be an important means of generating revenue. Look at how much Southampton have made from selling of their best youngsters. Losing Saido for next to nothing would be a tragedy.

It's not crazy at all

In the whole scheme of things we don't lose anything that's a fact, you are arguing that we should have accepted a bid for him, we didn't, JP is not what I would call a person with no business sense so I'll leave it to others to argue whether this was a bad business decision or not.

As long as he stays within the UK we will get a decent tribunal fee, if he goes abroad it won't be somewhere of any significance and he won't get big wages and will quite possibly push his career back even more..either way I don't care


Isn't it weird though that in 2012 Hodgson recommended we sack him and Ashworth pleaded to give him his chance...he took it at first but soon reverted to type with his misdemeanours off the pitch and now his downturn in form on the pitch

Won't miss him at all

[tommcneill]

Of course an analogy isn't going to match exactly - otherwise it wouldn't be an analogy.

Ignore the analogies...

Our board could have taken £20m in the summer.  Chose not to.  Now we have a disinterested player who will go for about £5m in the summer. 

Good business decision or not?

I couldn't really answer that to be honest no one but those at the club can

For all we know the bids might have been 20m but only 5m upfront and the rest based on career projections due to his obviously renowned attitude so perhaps those 20m+ bids would never have materialised which is why the club turned them down.

So then those 20m bids are actually meaningless and the real figures are much less

Let's also not forget he turned Stoke down so he is to blame for not leaving when he had the chance too...

[boinging_along]

I couldn't really answer that to be honest no one but those at the club can

For all we know the bids might have been 20m but only 5m upfront and the rest based on career projections due to his obviously renowned attitude so perhaps those 20m+ bids would never have materialised which is why the club turned them down.

So then those 20m bids are actually meaningless and the real figures are much less

Let's also not forget he turned Stoke down so he is to blame for not leaving when he had the chance too...

That's a fair point - if the offers were stupidly poor then maybe we are right to turn him down.  Sturridge went for £6.5m in the end as a tribunal fee and I doubt the offers would have been that poor. 

[tommcneill]

That's a fair point - if the offers were stupidly poor then maybe we are right to turn him down.  Sturridge went for £6.5m in the end as a tribunal fee and I doubt the offers would have been that poor.

Ings went for 10m at Tribunal.

I'd expect similar or more if he stays over here

Although I don't think he is worth that personally or at least not anymore

[overseas baggie]

It's not crazy at all

In the whole scheme of things we don't lose anything that's a fact, you are arguing that we should have accepted a bid for him, we didn't, JP is not what I would call a person with no business sense so I'll leave it to others to argue whether this was a bad business decision or not.

As long as he stays within the UK we will get a decent tribunal fee, if he goes abroad it won't be somewhere of any significance and he won't get big wages and will quite possibly push his career back even more..either way I don't care


Isn't it weird though that in 2012 Hodgson recommended we sack him and Ashworth pleaded to give him his chance...he took it at first but soon reverted to type with his misdemeanours off the pitch and now his downturn in form on the pitch

Won't miss him at all

I don't think he has any intention of actually playing abroad.  Seems that he would merely sign for a co-operating foreign club and then get immediately get loaned back to an English club.  Seems to be nothing to prevent it and it gets around the tribunal fee rules.

[tommcneill]

I don't think he has any intention of actually playing abroad.  Seems that he would merely sign for a co-operating foreign club and then get immediately get loaned back to an English club.  Seems to be nothing to prevent it and it gets around the tribunal fee rules.

But he will have to sign for the foreign club who will then out a price tag on him knowing what English clubs will pay so exactly the same situation he is in with us

How many co owned clubs are there in the Prem?? 1 I can think of Watford and I cant see him wanting to go there either

[overseas baggie]

But he will have to sign for the foreign club who will then out a price tag on him knowing what English clubs will pay so exactly the same situation he is in with us

How many co owned clubs are there in the Prem?? I can think of Watford and I cant see him wanting to go there either

I don't think you understand the plan.  The foreign club will just be a facilitator.  There are many foreign clubs who would very happily take a £500k facilitation fee.  No need for them to be co-owned at all.  It's the easiest money they will ever make and is petty cash to Berahino and his agent who will pocket many millions as a signing-on fee with an English club when he's a free agent.  The foreign club is needed solely to avoid the tribunal fee.

[royhan]

One day, that excuse for a man, will learn that the grass is not always greener on the other side. He should have taken what is reported to be a sizeable pay rise from us and continued playing for us. After all, he's not a particularly special player. I can see him slide even further down the slippery slope. He hasn't shown anything much in the past few seasons so why would any club want to line his and his agent's pockets with millions of pounds.

[tommcneill]

I don't think you understand the plan.  The foreign club will just be a facilitator.  There are many foreign clubs who would very happily take a £500k facilitation fee.  No need for them to be co-owned at all.  It's the easiest money they will ever make and is petty cash to Berahino and his agent who will pocket many millions as a signing-on fee with an English club when he's a free agent.  The foreign club is needed solely to avoid the tribunal fee.

No I understand the plan entirely.

Ive never seen a transfer of that type ever so it would be very murky waters.

[tommcneill]

One day, that excuse for a man, will learn that the grass is not always greener on the other side. He should have taken what is reported to be a sizeable pay rise from us and continued playing for us. After all, he's not a particularly special player. I can see him slide even further down the slippery slope. He hasn't shown anything much in the past few seasons so why would any club want to line his and his agent's pockets with millions of pounds.

I cannot see after another non-season for him anyone wanting to pay him the huge amounts of money or signing on fee's that he thinks he can command...that ship has sailed I reckon

on loan in the championship within 3-4 years