Author Topic: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD  (Read 1325386 times)

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AlbionFan

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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3650 on: October 31, 2019, 01:49:21 PM »
My own take. All three players were negligent. The other two still have value to the club as they are capable of fulfilling their primary function of playing football while Keogh; with his injury is of no value. The injury being linked to a self-inflicted piece of negligence; even if it could be deemed to be lower than the two others who were drunk-driving is the reason he is sacked.

Is an employer legally allowed to sack an employee because they were a passenger in a car crash?
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mulliganstired

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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3651 on: October 31, 2019, 03:49:55 PM »
Derby are now saying they offered him a reduced contract and would let him see it out.

If you are a drunk passenger in a drink drivers car I'm not sure you have committed a criminal offence

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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3652 on: October 31, 2019, 08:16:28 PM »
He was part of a drunken night out where the club provided sober drivers, he put himself at risk and his contractual obligations to take reasonable steps to keep himself fit, well and away from injury.
Put it this way, I'm sure footballers would not be allowed to carry out hazardous pursuits like skiing or skydiving, he has carried out a hazardous activity albeit not one previously mentioned.
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eddiethebeagle

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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3653 on: October 31, 2019, 08:23:51 PM »
I think that’s the point though- if he has carried out a hazardous activity then so have the other two (perhaps more so as theirs would be hazardous not only to themselves but to the general public).

The overall point is whilst we can all understand the reasons why the club would want to sack him and keep the other two, how can they legally treat him differently and sack him without sacking the others?  As has been said, perhaps there is something else we don’t know- and any appeal may shed some light on that!

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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3654 on: October 31, 2019, 10:00:13 PM »
I think that’s the point though- if he has carried out a hazardous activity then so have the other two (perhaps more so as theirs would be hazardous not only to themselves but to the general public).

The overall point is whilst we can all understand the reasons why the club would want to sack him and keep the other two, how can they legally treat him differently and sack him without sacking the others?  As has been said, perhaps there is something else we don’t know- and any appeal may shed some light on that!


It has been alleged on Twitter he has failed a drug test.
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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3655 on: October 31, 2019, 11:28:01 PM »
Football club strays into employment law makes a complete hash of things part 101.

Based on the known facts of the Derby case.

The incident followed a Club sponsored evening out. Two players Bennet and Lawrence were involved in an car crash which left club captain Keogh seriously injured all parties were drunk and the 2 drivers were subsequently found guilty of drink driving. Incidentally Lawrence and Bennet both left the scene of the accident abandoning their unconscious team mate in the crashed car.

The club has fined the players the maximum under the terms of their contracts.

They are now firing Keogh for gross misconduct.

This is really stupid and quite probably illegal.

While football is an odd and peculiar world where breach of contract is not infrequent but generally the industry settles the issue by paying up players contracts so there is no financial loss, in the absence of loss there is little or no point for players to sue for breach.

This is different Derby have breached the contract by offering Keogh reduced terms and then terminated the contract by reason of gross misconduct. In isolation they have a solid case. Firstly the incident occurred following a club sponsored evening out so it is deemed to be in the work place. Secondly Keogh's actions could be deemed to be reckless and the consequences have resulted in the contract being frustrated through his injury. Thirdly Derby could also argue that his actions damaged the reputation of the club.

However while Derby have the right under the contract they also have to act in a manner that is reasonable and fair. The problem for Derby is they are not sacking Bennet and Lawrence both of whom were at least as culpable as Keogh and whose actions resulted in criminal prosecution which in terms of reputational damage is far greater than being the passenger in one of the cars. Given the inconsistency of treatment a tribunal will almost certainly hold the dismissal to be unfair.

Keogh's status as club captain is a red herring it is an informal role which won't be acknowledged in the contract. If the Head Coach had been in the car that might have been different as part of the club's management structure the club might be able to argue that he could be held to a higher standard than the players.

As ever a football club making a bad situation worse through their ham fisted and amateurish management of the fall out. 

     
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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3656 on: November 01, 2019, 10:05:53 AM »

While football is an odd and peculiar world where breach of contract is not infrequent but generally the industry settles the issue by paying up players contracts so there is no financial loss, in the absence of loss there is little or no point for players to sue for breach.

This is different Derby have breached the contract by offering Keogh reduced terms and then terminated the contract by reason of gross misconduct. In isolation they have a solid case. Firstly the incident occurred following a club sponsored evening out so it is deemed to be in the work place. Secondly Keogh's actions could be deemed to be reckless and the consequences have resulted in the contract being frustrated through his injury. Thirdly Derby could also argue that his actions damaged the reputation of the club.


Completely agree they appear to have made a huge mess of it, which is incredible considering they have surely taken this action under advisement.

As for offering a lower contract, then sacking him. If there is any evidence of that whatsoever, then surely that enters the realms of blackmail.

In respect of the above two points you made though, I suspect breach of contract and what a normal person would find is gross misconduct is even more frequent than we know and in fact the usual action is to ignore, overlook or punish through a fine rather than contract termination.

I also disagree that in isolation they would have had a solid case. The club took the players to an event which involving alcohol, the fact he stayed out and had "too much" I don't think in itself would be gross misconduct, not without another action which caused embarrassment to his employer. His accident has embarrassed his employer but only because of the actions of others, which may be too remote to sack Keogh for.







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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3657 on: November 01, 2019, 10:58:22 AM »
I'm hearing Nathan Jones is about to be sacked before our game...

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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3658 on: November 01, 2019, 11:28:54 AM »
I'm hearing Nathan Jones is about to be sacked before our game...

Let's hope he hangs on for a few more days!😃
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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3659 on: November 01, 2019, 09:02:54 PM »
Bristol City currently a goal to the good against Barnsley.

If they win, they go top of the division.

Come on Barnsley!
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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3660 on: November 01, 2019, 09:15:03 PM »
Bristol City currently a goal to the good against Barnsley.

If they win, they go top of the division.

Come on Barnsley!

How can they go top unless they win something like 7-0
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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3661 on: November 01, 2019, 09:20:26 PM »
How can they go top unless they win something like 7-0

You’re right and I was just about to remedy my error, but thank you for doing so :)
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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3662 on: November 01, 2019, 09:21:57 PM »
How can they go top unless they win something like 7-0

They only need 6 in the last 20mis or so now ;D
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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3663 on: November 01, 2019, 09:23:16 PM »
They only need 6 in the last 20mis or so now ;D

 :o
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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3664 on: November 01, 2019, 09:33:39 PM »
:o

Breath, they need 7 again now.  :D

Come on Barnsley!
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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3665 on: November 01, 2019, 09:43:16 PM »
Yes Barnsley, thanks for the favour!
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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3666 on: November 01, 2019, 09:46:57 PM »
Yes Barnsley, thanks for the favour!

They're very tricky under their new manager, drawing with us, Bristol and beating Swansea. Thankfully results have been going for us lately but we have to help ourselves on Monday.

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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3667 on: November 01, 2019, 09:54:00 PM »
They're very tricky under their new manager, drawing with us, Bristol and beating Swansea. Thankfully results have been going for us lately but we have to help ourselves on Monday.
This is what I have been saying to quite few friends. (btw, I do have a couple  ::))

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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3668 on: November 01, 2019, 10:16:32 PM »
Stopped hating Barnsley quite so much now

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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3669 on: November 02, 2019, 02:25:29 PM »
Stoppage time Swansea winner takes them above us to the summit.
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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3670 on: November 03, 2019, 02:31:05 PM »
Preston beat Charlton and tbh showed how to close out a game with 7 minutes stoppage time. Kept a clean sheet to boot and Charlton were pretty ineffective. Not a great game but away from home, clean sheet and 3 points is a great result against a fellow challenger

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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3671 on: November 04, 2019, 06:05:59 PM »
Preston beat Charlton and tbh showed how to close out a game with 7 minutes stoppage time. Kept a clean sheet to boot and Charlton were pretty ineffective. Not a great game but away from home, clean sheet and 3 points is a great result against a fellow challenger

Think the ref we had played a huge part in us not seeing out the game against Charlton, rather than it being anything that we did.
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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3672 on: November 11, 2019, 05:08:28 PM »
Cardiff and Colin go their separate  ways. Think that’s the last we’ll see of him in a dugout.

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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3673 on: November 11, 2019, 05:12:35 PM »
Shame. Likable bloke really despite what happened with ourselves in the past

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Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« Reply #3674 on: November 11, 2019, 05:12:48 PM »
Cardiff and Colin go their separate  ways. Think that’s the last we’ll see of him in a dugout.

He came out before and said that he wasn't going to carry on at the club beyond the end of the season, so you'll be right on that one. Personally, I thought he should have left Cardiff during the summer