[Norfolk Baggie]

Most of us will have followed this story with some horror.  I was appalled at the way this child was treated by his father and step mum.  In some of the pictures he looks happy in his Birmingham City shirt, and it did occur to me that someone cared enough to buy it form him.  Perhaps a grandparent?  Perhaps there was a time when someone got him a burger (or a tikka?) and took him to his first match.  Then I read that part of his punishment was to have his shirt cut up into pieces in front of him.  There was quite a lot of cruelty experienced by this small boy and this was not the worst.  But it did touch me, and I will be holding my own kids just a bit closer this weekend. I sincerely hope this couple never see the light of day again…one way or another.

[KYA]

Hanging would be too good I hope they suffer for years in Prison always looking over their shoulder wondering what's coming next.

[tuamigos]

What sort of creatures are they to treat a child in this way.
The poor little boy, thinking that no one loved him.
He was let down big time by the agencies and to some extent his own family.
They should have got that little boy out of there short shift.
We don't have to worry because there's a government review 'to ensure this never happens again.'
Just like when Baby P, Victoria Climbe, Ella Rose Clover, and hundreds of other children killed every year.
Sickening!

[Droitwich Baggie]

I am sorry, Athur for what those creatures calling themselves your family put you through.I was also very touched when following the details, I am not ashamed to say that I wept.
Again let down by social services.I have no time for most of those employed there.The social worker who was supposed to help look after my sister, arrived late at every meeting, even though it was the first on her calendar.When I complained about her attitude too, she was taken off the case, my sister was given compensation to appologise.
I have since heard that she wasn't sacked, just moved sideways.If the top don't act, shouldn't it be reorganised?

[LiamTheBaggie]

Horrendous and I won’t deny I had a tear in my eye when I had read some of those court reports.

I am not going to hammer social services too much as Hughes would have originally passed his parenting assessments which would have lead to the closure of the initial case following the sentencing of Arthur’s mother. There are questions from that point on however. Bruises which were reported by family members were investigated but I would want to know whether any other assessments into Arthur’s health was taken into consideration.

The real issue that has contributed to this is lockdown. I would’ve interested to know whether Arthur’s atttendance at school was satisfactory as that would have raised initial concerns. The fact Arthur wasn’t able to present in a classroom is likely to have hidden the real issues at play and those being escalated to Childrens Services.

I am worried that there are other children who have been subjected to similar abuse because lockdown has prevented any disclosures and professionals recognising the signs of emotional abuse.

Unfortunately these sorts of cases are far too common nowadays which is a damning reflection of society. Thankfully the large majority of these cases are intercepted but it is upsetting to know so many are happy to neglect their children. Scum of the earth.

[caravanc58]

Horrendous and I won’t deny I had a tear in my eye when I had read some of those court reports.

I am not going to hammer social services too much as Hughes would have originally passed his parenting assessments which would have lead to the closure of the initial case following the sentencing of Arthur’s mother. There are questions from that point on however. Bruises which were reported by family members were investigated but I would want to know whether any other assessments into Arthur’s health was taken into consideration.

The real issue that has contributed to this is lockdown. I would’ve interested to know whether Arthur’s atttendance at school was satisfactory as that would have raised initial concerns. The fact Arthur wasn’t able to present in a classroom is likely to have hidden the real issues at play and those being escalated to Childrens Services.

I am worried that there are other children who have been subjected to similar abuse because lockdown has prevented any disclosures and professionals recognising the signs of emotional abuse.

Unfortunately these sorts of cases are far too common nowadays which is a damning reflection of society. Thankfully the large majority of these cases are intercepted but it is upsetting to know so many are happy to neglect their children. Scum of the earth.

Good point about how the Lockdowns played a part in this sad case,  difficult to understand how two evil creatures could perpetrate such cruelty on an innocent child. No punishment can justify the crime but I hope they are mentally tortured forever but you need a conscience which the clearly haven't.

[tommcneill]

Like others it bought a tear to my eye reading what happened to him. What I cant square with this though is that the mother was a perfectly good, loving mother to her own kids by all accounts. So its not as if we are dealing with someone who abused everyone, just this little boy. Its heartbreaking that someone who loves her own kids can have such evil intentions to another child in her household.

They are evil people, the pair of them. Absolute evil.

That poor boy. His suffering really hit me, and as the OP said, I hugged my kids that little bit more recently.

Its such a devastating story.

[skyclad99]

It bought a few tears to my eyes as well. We have a grandson the same age who is loved dearly, like all of your children and grandchildren.

I hope the culprits are getting a very hard time in prison.

[Hull Baggie]

Reminded me of the sad case of the little Polish lad Daniel Pelka in Coventry about 8 or 9 years ago.

Seems the lessons from that case weren't learned.

[Droitwich Baggie]

And now little Star. 16 months old. Beaten and stamped on.
Relatives and friends pleaded with the SS to take note.
5 referrals to social services, in the 8 months before her death.
Close the SS down and have a single recognised unit to look into this discusting abhorrent crime.
They MUST act on all cases given to them, even if it means taking the child into care.

[Atomic]

It's hard to believe what humans are capable of.

Absolute scum some of them.

[hardtobeat]

And now little Star. 16 months old. Beaten and stamped on.
Relatives and friends pleaded with the SS to take note.
5 referrals to social services, in the 8 months before her death.
Close the SS down and have a single recognised unit to look into this discusting abhorrent crime.
They MUST act on all cases given to them, even if it means taking the child into care.

Agree with most of this but and it’s a huge but you’ve got to employ enough staff first. I knew a Social worker 30 years ago and their workload then was nigh on impossible then . Cuts since then will have led to many slipping through the cracks which in turn leads to the sad outcomes we are seeing

[KYA]

It's hard to believe what humans are capable of.

Absolute scum some of them.

We've always had scum in society but I do feel they are a significant minority these days a general lowering of standards and discipline over the last 50yrs has brought this about all I can say is I'm glad I'm on the wrong side of 60.

[Hull Baggie]

it's not just social services though, the police have been negligent too.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Agree with most of this but and it’s a huge but you’ve got to employ enough staff first. I knew a Social worker 30 years ago and their workload then was nigh on impossible then . Cuts since then will have led to many slipping through the cracks which in turn leads to the sad outcomes we are seeing

This in bucket and spades.   Children's social services are severely under funded, under paid and under protected.

It is riddled with agency staff who come and go because CSS is such a gruelling and unforgiving place to work for.

[KYA]

This in bucket and spades.   Children's social services are severely under funded, under paid and under protected.

It is riddled with agency staff who come and go because CSS is such a gruelling and unforgiving place to work for.

You can do a great long list of jobs people don't want to do you have that idiot Harry saying quit your job if you don't like it a fine mess the country would be in if we all did that.
Bottom line is we have record jobs vacancies the workforce is changing and not for the better it's a good job we have AI to fall back on for some jobs.

[skyclad99]

And now little Star. 16 months old. Beaten and stamped on.
Relatives and friends pleaded with the SS to take note.
5 referrals to social services, in the 8 months before her death.
Close the SS down and have a single recognised unit to look into this discusting abhorrent crime.
They MUST act on all cases given to them, even if it means taking the child into care.

I know others have covered this DB, but Social Services are massively under funded, overloaded and have a high staff turnover for various reasons. It is easy to blame SS in these awful instances but in both cases it has been identified that the parents purposely set out to intentionally deceive SS

I think we need to wait for the full enquiry before we lay blame and suggest that Social Services are closed down.

[KYA]

Star Hobson is another poor child let down by SS who also ignored the concerns of relatives who say they were accused of being 'troublemakers who made the complaint because we didn't like gipsies or same sex relationships'.
This is a shocking neglect of duty by someone who needs to rethink what they should be concentrating on it makes you wonder if such ineptitude is rife in SS.

[Droitwich Baggie]

I know others have covered this DB, but Social Services are massively under funded, overloaded and have a high staff turnover for various reasons. It is easy to blame SS in these awful instances but in both cases it has been identified that the parents purposely set out to intentionally deceive SS

I think we need to wait for the full enquiry before we lay blame and suggest that Social Services are closed down.

Every service and company is underfunded.
It shouldn't stop people doing what they are asked to do.
I have a lovely friend who was employed as a fostering department manager in Birmingham by the the SS. She said then (about 5 or so years ago) that she wasn't allowed to fire useless people, and only to send them onto other divisions. She was concerned by the people coming in and being employed, even then. She continued 3 years after her retirement age, but still felt the she was banging her head against a brick wall of beauraucracy. Even she said that the SS wasn't up to any sort of standard even then.

[kc56wba]

Every service and company is underfunded.
It shouldn't stop people doing what they are asked to do.
I have a lovely friend who was employed as a fostering department manager in Birmingham by the the SS. She said then (about 5 or so years ago) that she wasn't allowed to fire useless people, and only to send them onto other divisions. She was concerned by the people coming in and being employed, even then. She continued 3 years after her retirement age, but still felt the she was banging her head against a brick wall of beauraucracy. Even she said that the SS wasn't up to any sort of standard even then.

Without the resources it does stop people doing what they are asked to do. Social Services have a ever growing list of cases but not the staff or support to deal with them.

[OldburyWBA]

Yet another case of social services not acting, 16 month old girl Star Hobson killed by her moms girlfriend. Warnings from great grandparents ignored by the authorities, disgraceful.

Few years ago a friends son broke his leg in their back garden after falling down a couple of steps, social services hassled them for months over it yet these kids who are suffering and reports made are getting ignored. Priorities are all wrong.

[Droitwich Baggie]

I digressed, and went off subject.
The subject should be... How do we protect those suffering abuse?
I suggested that there should be a single department which only looks at this.
Any other ideas?

[KYA]

I digressed, and went off subject.
The subject should be... How do we protect those suffering abuse?
I suggested that there should be a single department which only looks at this.
Any other ideas?

It strikes me the SS has one hand tied behind its back where when they visit the abuser's everything is staged managed to appear normal they should have the power to visit when they like and if concerned remove the child for a day to undergo a thorough examination in hospital.
Both the cases mentioned on here should never have happened relatives and others  concerns were ignored and actually accused of harassment the people involved in the SS should hang their heads in shame and to say its lack of funding is laughable these cases are down to pure incompetence or worse pure and simple.

[LiamTheBaggie]

I digressed, and went off subject.
The subject should be... How do we protect those suffering abuse?
I suggested that there should be a single department which only looks at this.
Any other ideas?

I’m not sure what you mean by single departments. Most already are single departments within their authority though many are now going into trusts.

It’s impossible to have ‘single departments’ as such as SS now combines any Governmental department such as housing, police, fire services, education & health care.

[LiamTheBaggie]

It strikes me the SS has one hand tied behind its back where when they visit the abuser's everything is staged managed to appear normal they should have the power to visit when they like and if concerned remove the child for a day to undergo a thorough examination in hospital.

Both the cases mentioned on here should never have happened relatives and others  concerns were ignored and actually accused of harassment the people involved in the SS should hang their heads in shame and to say its lack of funding is laughable these cases are down to pure incompetence or worse pure and simple.

They can & do visit both announced and unannounced. It is part of the evidence gathering.

SS cannot just remove a child off a whim - it requires a lengthy court process unless there is immediate risk of harm and even that requires going to court. You are then caught in the middle of litigation as is the right of the parent.

It takes nigh on 41 weeks or more for the court process to conclude - that is under funding.

Our local trust has 24 vacancies currently in its department - it is practically impossible for any department to run efficiently with such level of vacancies.

Recruiting to social services is demoralising for its workers because they’re scarred by cases and then abused widely by families and random folk on the internet.  No wonder nobody wants to do it.

[skyclad99]

They can & do visit both announced and unannounced. It is part of the evidence gathering.

SS cannot just remove a child off a whim - it requires a lengthy court process unless there is immediate risk of harm and even that requires going to court. You are then caught in the middle of litigation as is the right of the parent.

It takes nigh on 41 weeks or more for the court process to conclude - that is under funding.

Our local trust has 24 vacancies currently in its department - it is practically impossible for any department to run efficiently with such level of vacancies.

Recruiting to social services is demoralising for its workers because they’re scarred by cases and then abused widely by families and random folk on the internet.  No wonder nobody wants to do it.

Good post Liam

I think many on here are happy to blame Social Services without knowing the full facts. Lets wait until the enquiry has concluded before we nail them to the cross.

[KYA]

They can & do visit both announced and unannounced. It is part of the evidence gathering.

SS cannot just remove a child off a whim - it requires a lengthy court process unless there is immediate risk of harm and even that requires going to court. You are then caught in the middle of litigation as is the right of the parent.

It takes nigh on 41 weeks or more for the court process to conclude - that is under funding.

Our local trust has 24 vacancies currently in its department - it is practically impossible for any department to run efficiently with such level of vacancies.

Recruiting to social services is demoralising for its workers because they’re scarred by cases and then abused widely by families and random folk on the internet.  No wonder nobody wants to do it.

They should have the power to remove a child for a medical health check if there are concerns that seems an obvios step to me.
I'm not saying per sa there is no underfunding but it's clear in the cases mentioned on here that those involved from SS were negligent in carrying out their job I believe they even closed the case on Star despite a rack of evidence suggesting the child was being abused.
As with many things the abusers seem to have more rights than the abused this needs to change.
There are job vacancies everywhere that's the changing dynamics of the workforce they all want well paid easy jobs.

[KYA]

Good post Liam

I think many on here are happy to blame Social Services without knowing the full facts. Lets wait until the enquiry has concluded before we nail them to the cross.

You don't need an enquiry just read the list of mistakes they made the people involved are unfit to be in the job an Ofsted report criticised the department in 2018 and no significant improvements made since then with the boss quitting his £121K jobs days before the trial.
The department was rocked by an Ofsted report in 2018 which branded it 'inadequate' and said some children under its care were 'at risk of serious harm.'

[skyclad99]

You don't need an enquiry just read the list of mistakes they made the people involved are unfit to be in the job an Ofsted report criticised the department in 2018 and no significant improvements made since then with the boss quitting his £121K jobs days before the trial.
The department was rocked by an Ofsted report in 2018 which branded it 'inadequate' and said some children under its care were 'at risk of serious harm.'

That applies to all Government departments KYA, trust me I used to work for one of them.

The police would be a very good example.

An inquiry is necessary to establish the exact facts leading to these horrendous situations. We cannot simply refer to a three year old report and condemn them

[KYA]

That applies to all Government departments KYA, trust me I used to work for one of them.

The police would be a very good example.

An inquiry is necessary to establish the exact facts leading to these horrendous situations. We cannot simply refer to a three year old report and condemn them

I appreciate we have to go through the hoops an exercise in trying to pass the buck and will achieve and change nothing, i'm sure those on the jury have already made up their minds on the competence of those involved.

[skyclad99]

I appreciate we have to go through the hoops an exercise in trying to pass the buck and will achieve and change nothing, i'm sure those on the jury have already made up their minds on the competence of those involved.

Having been involved in a few as a fact finder, its a little bit more that you suggest. An enquiry will examine all contacts made with the family in minute detail to see if the guidance was strictly adhered to and what was done as a result of these contacts. We need to remember that it came out in Court that poor Arthur was trained to lie to the Social Services about his circumstances. With the best will in the world, there is not a great deal you can do without the evidence to gain the appropriate Court Orders to take action. The days of obtaining such an order on 'a hunch' are long gone sadly.

[KYA]

Having been involved in a few as a fact finder, its a little bit more that you suggest. An enquiry will examine all contacts made with the family in minute detail to see if the guidance was strictly adhered to and what was done as a result of these contacts. We need to remember that it came out in Court that poor Arthur was trained to lie to the Social Services about his circumstances. With the best will in the world, there is not a great deal you can do without the evidence to gain the appropriate Court Orders to take action. The days of obtaining such an order on 'a hunch' are long gone sadly.

Why are the concerns of relatives so easily dismissed? one person you may take at face value but when there are several as appears in both Star and Arthurs cases surely red lights alarm bells would be going off in your head instead of criticizing them, that's one question I would like the answer's too.

[skyclad99]

Why are the concerns of relatives so easily dismissed? one person you may take at face value but when there are several as appears in both Star and Arthurs cases surely red lights alarm bells would be going off in your head instead of criticizing them, that's one question I would like the answer's too.

I agree, and an independent enquiry will establish all of this

[Droitwich Baggie]

I’m not sure what you mean by single departments. Most already are single departments within their authority though many are now going into trusts.

It’s impossible to have ‘single departments’ as such as SS now combines any Governmental department such as housing, police, fire services, education & health care.

Exactly.
They are combined and now too big to be able to do a single job properly.
Things get hidden and lost in a monster.

[johnny Cash]

Nothing much will change. Failings will be found, hands will be slapped and blame will be apportioned. 

At the end of it all though, child services will still be underfunded, as will elderly care and the NHS in general. The whole thing is a mess and there is no easy answer. Processes and practices will probably be changed, but I don't see how you will close all of the cracks without serious investment.  Its nearly 15 years since Baby P and this situation will be a rinse and repeat until the next time.

What these kids have been through is heartbreaking. I wish I had the belief things will get better.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Exactly.
They are combined and now too big to be able to do a single job properly.
Things get hidden and lost in a monster.

But those departments have to be taken into account as many of them will have existing issues with families which may then influence the course of action that needs to taken.

We cannot just simply state "its the job of social services" as otherwise what you find is that we have more of these cases and not less.

That is then why for those children subject to care orders or child protection plans, you will have to undertake weekly/monthly core group meetings, child protection review meetings etc to assess improvements/whats working well and future risks.

It needs more people contributing, not less.

And that's why Government should support qualifications in social care to enable more individuals to take up an interest in the field and furthermore pay them accordingly for what they have to do deal with. Referrals continue to increase whilst the number of workers available to review them continues to decrease. That is a real problem.

And to add on a general point - just because social services may close a case from there end does not mean that no support is provided. There are early help and targeted family support units which will pick up cases which may not meet the threshold for social services so that they do not simply fall off the radar.

[KYA]

Nothing much will change. Failings will be found, hands will be slapped and blame will be apportioned. 

At the end of it all though, child services will still be underfunded, as will elderly care and the NHS in general. The whole thing is a mess and there is no easy answer. Processes and practices will probably be changed, but I don't see how you will close all of the cracks without serious investment.  Its nearly 15 years since Baby P and this situation will be a rinse and repeat until the next time.

What these kids have been through is heartbreaking. I wish I had the belief things will get better.

The NHS is a huge blackhole wasting millions every year and getting worse with made-up jobs and less spent on the actual treatment of patients.
The whole system to work effectively would need overhauling which is never going to happen.
Last year, the UK spent more on healthcare as a proportion of GDP than any other so-called "advanced economy" bar the United States. What? More than France, more than Germany, more than the Netherlands? Indeed yes, according to data collated by the OECD.

[hardtobeat]

We could always try spending the money in the right places . Over the last 10 years the number of Doctors , Nurses , hospital beds etc etc have all gone down . For those advocating a US type service take a look at how many suicides and other deaths  they get as a result of having either no insurance or being unable to pay for their treatment !

[LiamTheBaggie]

Lets not have this topic stray from the children and social services....

[seteefeet]

Lets not have this topic stray from the children and social services....

It's all linked though isn't it? NHS cuts have a massive bearing on this issue and are at the heart of it. Social workers are human and make mistakes and some are probably poor at their job, but, I would imagine, most people that go into such a profession, do so out of a genuine desire to help and protect.
If they are drowning in work load, red tape and bureaucracy, then that needs to be addressed and funded accordingly.
Protecting our kids should be an absolute priority and money should not be an excuse for even one death such as this.

[KYA]

It's all linked though isn't it? NHS cuts have a massive bearing on this issue and are at the heart of it. Social workers are human and make mistakes and some are probably poor at their job, but, I would imagine, most people that go into such a profession, do so out of a genuine desire to help and protect.
If they are drowning in work load, red tape and bureaucracy, then that needs to be addressed and funded accordingly.
Protecting our kids should be an absolute priority and money should not be an excuse for even one death such as this.

Serious question how much would you be prepared to see say income tax rise to pay for a hopefully but far from guaranteed better health service? chances are the money would be wasted then what?
Sorry to admin  I have no problem if you remove mine and other posts that have gone off-topic.

[hardtobeat]

Just to put some context into work loads. Ten years ago apparently there were 55000 job vacancies in the health and social care sector today that number is around 198000 !

[KYA]

Just to put some context into work loads. Ten years ago apparently there were 55000 job vacancies in the health and social care sector today that number is around 198000 !

Where do you get your figures from it's nothing like the information from GOV UK.
https://explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/children-s-social-work-workforce

[mulliganstired]

The tabloids don't help, in a couple of months they will be running a story about dreadful social workers taking children from a nice family into care for a couple of playground bruises.  The truth is those two killed the kid, nobody else.  Throw away the key

[Droitwich Baggie]

I resurrected this thread to keep it in all of our minds.
No apologies.