[B_H_Baggie]

Foster had no chance with either goal and didn't have much more to do but he did rush out a couple of times needlessly.

[tuamigos]

WTF was Roy thinking of playing Milner at right back, Ive seen cheese turn faster than him, and some of those balls he was playing infield to the centre backs were suicidal.
Always reminds me of Waddle, with his slopey shoulders, but without the ability to beat a man.

[lewisant]

WTF was Roy thinking of playing Milner at right back, Ive seen cheese turn faster than him, and some of those balls he was playing infield to the centre backs were suicidal.
Always reminds me of Waddle, with his slopey shoulders, but without the ability to beat a man.

Yeah I hope that little experiment by Roy has revealed that he should be nowhere near the starting line up let alone the defence! It'll have to be Jones or Smalling as back up RB

[WSBaggie]

Yeah I hope that little experiment by Roy has revealed that he should be nowhere near the starting line up let alone the defence! It'll have to be Jones or Smalling as back up RB

I think it was more a test of if we are 1-0 up with 20 mins to go and Johnson comes off injured do we put the catastrophic looking Jones or Smalling on at right back or do we put Milner on there because he is 'trustworthy'.

Myself I would rather finish the game with with ten men.

[Greenock Baggie]

Foster didnt rush out needlessly, he rushed out to try to intercept a through ball and /or close a player down who was one on one with him due to a non-existant defence. He was hung out to dry by the pee poor defence and absent midfield cover.
I dont get the Wilshere love-in either, he was rubbish last night, constantly gave the ball away unless it was the simplest of passes, constantly caught in possession and looked as though tomorrow would do.
All I can say is that the team we play in the next warm up which is supposedly the one that will (probably ) be the one we start with against the Italians had better NOT include most of that team that played last night..........and I include Rooney in that. Oxlade Chamberlain being the only one who showed anything, and he's now crocked.

[Jack Russell]

Foster must have thought Reid and Ridgewell had come back to haunt him

[gerry m]

Foster didnt rush out needlessly, he rushed out to try to intercept a through ball and /or close a player down who was one on one with him due to a non-existant defence. He was hung out to dry by the pee poor defence and absent midfield cover.
I dont get the Wilshere love-in either, he was rubbish last night, constantly gave the ball away unless it was the simplest of passes, constantly caught in possession and looked as though tomorrow would do.
All I can say is that the team we play in the next warm up which is supposedly the one that will (probably ) be the one we start with against the Italians had better NOT include most of that team that played last night..........and I include Rooney in that. Oxlade Chamberlain being the only one who showed anything, and he's now crocked.

Every time Wilshere was touched he went down expecting a free kick. Overated and injury prone. Would like to see Barkley get a start.

[WBAinDEVON]

Land back in Blighty wednesday afternoon with their tails between their legs

[Greenock Baggie]

Land back in Blighty wednesday afternoon with their tails between their legs

and out the backdoor of Heathrow like so many of their predecessors

[Dexy]

It may sound a bit old fashioned but i can't help but feel England have lacked a true ball winner / nasty sod in the middle , De Jong of Holland is a good example...not the most technical but covers and protects .

[Greenock Baggie]

It may sound a bit old fashioned but i can't help but feel England have lacked a true ball winner / nasty sod in the middle , De Jong of Holland is a good example...not the most technical but covers and protects .

Those days are long gone, any nasty sod wouldn't last 5 minutes and be a liability if sent off. We are not good enough technically. Oh, and Jack Wilshere is the future, god help us. Caught in possession time and again, gave the ball away and couldn't beat anyone. As for our so-called attacking options, we scored 2 poxy goals in 3 matches. Nah, simple answer is we just are not good enough and never will be while money rules the premier league and foreign owners buy foreigners for instant success rather than being forced by the FA to use English players. Then we might see some change, especially with the top teams.

[Dexy]

Those days are long gone, any nasty sod wouldn't last 5 minutes and be a liability if sent off. We are not good enough technically. Oh, and Jack Wilshere is the future, god help us. Caught in possession time and again, gave the ball away and couldn't beat anyone. As for our so-called attacking options, we scored 2 poxy goals in 3 matches. Nah, simple answer is we just are not good enough and never will be while money rules the premier league and foreign owners buy foreigners for instant success rather than being forced by the FA to use English players. Then we might see some change, especially with the top teams.

That's just my point , we aren't technical enough so maybe need to revert to a ball winner.
Plenty of teams through or on the verge of the last 16 with a ball winner or two , look around.

[Atomic]

That's just my point , we aren't technical enough so maybe need to revert to a ball winner.
Plenty of teams through or on the verge of the last 16 with a ball winner or two , look around.

We need someone to sit in front of the back four but we don't need some De Jong character. We need to work on technique and ball retention. In the end, when it comes to the crunch that's what will matter.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Those days are long gone, any nasty sod wouldn't last 5 minutes and be a liability if sent off.

Segio Busquets, Xabi Alonso, Javier Mascherano, Danielle De Rossi, Thiago Motta, Nigel De Jong, Fernandinho, Luis Gustavo are just small examples of nasty sods who are doing quite well in the modern game.

You can be a nasty sod as much as you like in football - at the end of the day you have to be disciplined and that's the real test.

[Greenock Baggie]

We need someone to sit in front of the back four but we don't need some De Jong character. We need to work on technique and ball retention. In the end, when it comes to the crunch that's what will matter.

Exactly, the days of kicking people and getting away with it are long gone. No top team has a clogger. We are not good enough and its our technique and passing and shooting that needs improving, not our ability to kick people.

[Atomic]

Segio Busquets, Xabi Alonso, Javier Mascherano, Danielle De Rossi, Thiago Motta, Nigel De Jong, Fernandinho, Luis Gustavo are just small examples of nasty sods who are doing quite well in the modern game.

You can be a nasty sod as much as you like in football -

I'd call De Jong nasty but none of the others. Busquets goes down when you blow at him. Some of the others Mascherano, De Rossi, Fernandino,  are competitive but I wouldn't call them nasty. De Jong on the other hand I would call nasty, sometimes he deliberately tries to hurt someone.

[LiamTheBaggie]

I'd call De Jong nasty but none of the others. Busquets goes down when you blow at him. Some of the others Mascherano, De Rossi, Fernandino,  are competitive but I wouldn't call them nasty. De Jong on the other hand I would call nasty, sometimes he deliberately tries to hurt someone.

I do tend to agree - I think I used the wrong word - they're not nasty, they're combative.

Add in their fabulous talents with the ball and you have quite a player.

[Dexy]

Exactly, the days of kicking people and getting away with it are long gone. No top team has a clogger. We are not good enough and its our technique and passing and shooting that needs improving, not our ability to kick people.

Missing the point , nobody said clogger ...more of a shield type player , lord knows that back 4 need more protection. All about balance , if we are more comfortable defending as a unit our attacking movement may well get better . De Jong may have been a bad example , look at the players Liam listed ....they know how to sit and block and let others do the attacking. It's not fully the answer to England's problems granted but we simply don't have any midfielder to do that role.

[Atomic]

Missing the point , nobody said clogger ...more of a shield type player , lord knows that back 4 need more protection. All about balance , if we are more comfortable defending as a unit our attacking movement may well get better . De Jong may have been a bad example , look at the players Liam listed ....they know how to sit and block and let others do the attacking. It's not fully the answer to England's problems granted but we simply don't have any midfielder to do that role.

I do agree we are lacking someone to play that role. I also think we are lacking a top quality striker. No-one seems to be hammering Sturridge after today's match if it had been Rooney missing those chances he'd have been pelted all round.

Where have all the English strikers gone? We used to have Shearer, Lineker, Owen, Fowler, Wright. Anyone of those at the moment and we PROBABLY would've gone through the group stage.

[Dexy]

Strikers are a good point , it will be interesting to see how Sturridge gets on in this years Champs League with Liverpool.

[Albionic]

Parallels with another team,
lacking a consistent striker,
lots of similar midfielders,
 no long term options at centre half, and
options at full backs are kids or coverage with centrehalves.

Name that team .......

[RedHead_Baggie]

Strikers are a good point , it will be interesting to see how Sturridge gets on in this years Champs League with Liverpool.

He won't do a great deal unless he has Suarez to create chances for him.

Speaking of Liverpool, if they are thinking of paying 30 million pound for Adam Lallana then they need their heads examining.

[Albionic]

think that Lallana deal could fall through now that Suarez is virtually worthless !

[WBAinDEVON]

England =shambles.First time since 1958 not to get out of a group stage.Roy Hodgson should leave and the job should go to someone like Gary Neville

[B_H_Baggie]

England =shambles.First time since 1958 not to get out of a group stage.Roy Hodgson should leave and the job should go to someone like Gary Neville

What has Gary Neville done to be given such a big job? He was arguably part of the problem being on the current coaching staff.

You can change manager after every tournament but it wont change the fact our players just aren't good enough.