Author Topic: Anything England Football  (Read 773954 times)

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tommcneill

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1150 on: March 04, 2016, 03:40:48 PM »
The list will keep expanding because there are more than 11 world class players thats how it works
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Albionic

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1151 on: March 04, 2016, 03:43:03 PM »
There can be as many world class players as there are?? there is no limit to how many there is!!

And yes Rooney is up there with the best players ever, his overall ability for a start and he currently has the goalscoring record. what more does he need to be up there with the best??. When he received his award for breaking the record Bobby Charlton told you all you need to know about what everyone else thinks go him in the football world.

He has got his goals in an era when most intl games are qualifiers or freindlies against "lesser" nations, when he's been needed to contribute in meaningful games has he?

He is good, maybe very good, but on the world stage, ie super elite, sorry i just do not see it.
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robbo_wba

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1152 on: March 04, 2016, 04:04:32 PM »
Ok, if its ridiculous, how many world class players can there be at any one time ??? Surely you have to draw the line somewhere? If not 11, would you say 20, 30, 40..... 100??

To me its equally ridiculous that anything above 20 players could be deemed as world class, I chose to use 11 as I think its easy to name a side, rather than a list with no end. 

I apologise for being ridiculous, but hey you know what i'll get over it  ;D

Oh and on Rooney being one of the best england players ever, are you honestly saying he's been better than Shilton, Banks, Moore, Charlton, Lineker, Hurst, Greaves, Ball, Mortenson, Wright, Matthews, to name oops 11   :-*

It's the definition of being in the top 11 and that only one player in each position can be world class that is ridiculous. But thanks, apology accepted.

Thankfully, there is no limit to world/top class players.

While of course it is subjective, I find it hard to believe that anyone can argue that Rooney over his career has not been world class. He has won premier league titles, the Champions league, player of the year, shown ability in scoring a whole range of goals, created goals, and broke historic individual goal scoring records.

And yes Rooney would get in most people's England 11 ahead of Lineker, Greaves, Mortenson, Hurst etc. He has scored more domestic, European, and international goals than all of them. As well as more assists, and a better all round game.

I feel he is too harshly written off as he has played in an era with Messi and Ronaldo, probably the best 2 players ever to play the game, and is therefore always compared to those two. For me, they are on another level to everyone else.

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1153 on: March 04, 2016, 04:06:25 PM »
England playing around the country again i hear, bout time too
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1154 on: March 04, 2016, 04:09:43 PM »
the sooner Hodgson goes the better, and he will after the euros. Wilsher, delph, luke shaw all mentioned as possibilities. current players on form for me. no doubt rooney will be starting
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robbo_wba

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1155 on: March 04, 2016, 04:23:34 PM »
He has got his goals in an era when most intl games are qualifiers or freindlies against "lesser" nations, when he's been needed to contribute in meaningful games has he?

He is good, maybe very good, but on the world stage, ie super elite, sorry i just do not see it.

Charlton goals had his fair share of goals against minnows. 5 against Luxembourg, 4 against USA (minnows at the time), and hat tricks against Mexico and Switzerland in 8-0/8-1 wins.

Rooney has also scored more goals in major tournaments than Charlton.

And when compared to someone in this era, he even has a similar record to Ronaldo. 51 in 109, to 55 in 122. Not bad at all!
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 04:30:33 PM by robbo_wba »

Scooby Doo

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1156 on: March 05, 2016, 06:40:18 AM »
World class forwards; Messi, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Aguero.

Anyone putting Rooney in their bracket needs a rethink.

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1157 on: March 05, 2016, 07:58:28 AM »
I understand when people say it's hard to compare Rooney to Messi and Ronaldo because they are the level above but for me he's never really been in the level below either.  Not ever close to World or European player of the year.

The likes of Zlatan,  Aguero, Suarez, neymar,  bale, muller, Torres all way ahead of Rooney.

Rooney was ruined by Ferguson imo. Tried to improve his all round game but ended up taking the best thing away from him which was taking players on almost Gazza-esque.

caravanc58

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1158 on: March 05, 2016, 10:34:58 AM »
World class forwards; Messi, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, Aguero.

Anyone putting Rooney in their bracket needs a rethink.
I know he's a dickhead but I would add suarez to that list, agree about rooney though, I tend to judge what players do at major tournaments when the play against the best when calling them world class, and rooney has fallen well short in that respect.   

Albion79

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1159 on: March 05, 2016, 11:20:35 AM »
I think going on the past Rooney has been a top player for England but like others have said, i dont think he quite fulfilled his full potential, he was / still is quality but dont think he is world class.

I watched the documentary on him when he broke the goalscoring record and when he started at Everton he was so raw and instinctive, combined with stupid amounts of talent too and thats what made him so special. Over the probably with getting older and more coaching he has lost that edge a bit.

Until he got injured recently then i would of picked him for England for the Euros, for once as a tournament approached he seemed to be approaching the end of season in good form and injury free but then he ended up getting injured!

I think you should take your best / form players to tournaments wherever they are from, not just names, aside from the very very very odd glimpse of Sturridge actually getting on the pitch this season i have yet to see why he deserves to go to the tournament, same thing with Wilshere, how you can justify picking players who havent played for their clubs i have no idea, its not like they have been playing poor for their clubs, form comes and goes, but at the time of writing they havent actually even been playing!
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 11:23:21 AM by Albion79 »

Dan

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1160 on: March 05, 2016, 11:25:46 AM »
I understand when people say it's hard to compare Rooney to Messi and Ronaldo because they are the level above but for me he's never really been in the level below either.  Not ever close to World or European player of the year.

The likes of Zlatan,  Aguero, Suarez, neymar,  bale, muller, Torres all way ahead of Rooney.

Rooney was ruined by Ferguson imo. Tried to improve his all round game but ended up taking the best thing away from him which was taking players on almost Gazza-esque.

If Torres was world class, then Rooney certainly was. Rooney's record is better domestically, internationally, at European level and probably a stronger all round player too than Torres who only ever thrived in one particular system under Benitez.

tommcneill

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1161 on: March 05, 2016, 11:40:54 AM »
Ridiculous these posts saying Rooney is not up there with the Agueros, Ibrahimovich's etc

His record proves you are wrong

Your opinion might be that you don't think he is as good but everything else points to him being as good if not better than some of the World Class players mentioned in above posts

Rooney is/was world class.
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1162 on: March 05, 2016, 01:00:46 PM »
Lineker head and shoulders over Rooney for me,  these type of players come into their own on the big stage like the 86 world cup when Lineker won the Golden Boot Award with 6 goals, look how Lineker dragged England to the semis in Italia 90 with goals against Cameroon and Germany.
Big players shine in the tournaments and the biggest stage to play football is the world cup finals
Lineker 10 GOALS
Rooney 1 goal.

Dan

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1163 on: March 05, 2016, 01:05:15 PM »
Lineker head and shoulders over Rooney for me,  these type of players come into their own on the big stage like the 86 world cup when Lineker won the Golden Boot Award with 6 goals, look how Lineker dragged England to the semis in Italia 90 with goals against Cameroon and Germany.
Big players shine in the tournaments and the biggest stage to play football is the world cup finals
Lineker 10 GOALS
Rooney 1 goal.

I'm not sure you can say Lineker "dragged" England to the semi-finals by scoring 2 penalties against Cameroon.

Besides which it's a bit ridiculous to judge someone solely on a tournament held every 4 year that is largely dependent on team strength. Based on such logic then Cristiano Ronaldo isn't world class as he's never done much at world cups. Only scored 3 goals, all in the group stages, a penalty against Iran, the 6th against North Korea, and a late goal against Ghana that was little more than a consolation as they exited the last world cup.

Landon Donovan 5 World cup GOALS
Lionel Messi 5
Cristiano Ronaldo 3
Zlatan Ibrahimovic 0
Sergio Aguero  0

There's a real cognitive dissonance with Rooney and other strikers from some England "fans". You'll see as above people praising Aguero for being world class for example then slagging off Rooney based on his international record, when Aguero's is even worse.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 01:23:45 PM by Dan »

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1164 on: March 17, 2016, 08:45:02 AM »
any squad announcement yet?
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1165 on: March 17, 2016, 12:50:27 PM »
Danny Drinkwater made the squad then
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saml30

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1166 on: March 17, 2016, 01:11:51 PM »
Generally really like the squad as a whole, just questions over Jagielka, Lallana and Walcott for me
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MarkW

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1167 on: March 17, 2016, 01:19:18 PM »
Goalkeepers: Jack Butland (Stoke City), Fraser Forster (Southampton), Joe Hart (Manchester City).

Defenders: Ryan Bertrand (Southampton), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Nathaniel Clyne (Liverpool), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Danny Rose (Tottenham Hotspur), Chris Smalling (Manchester United), John Stones (Everton), Kyle Walker (Tottenham Hotspur).

Midfielders: Dele Alli (Tottenham Hotspur), Ross Barkley (Everton), Eric Dier (Tottenham Hotspur), Danny Drinkwater (Leicester City), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Adam Lallana (Liverpool), James Milner (Liverpool), Raheem Sterling (Manchester City).

Forwards: Harry Kane (Tottenham Hotspur), Daniel Sturridge (Liverpool), Jamie Vardy (Leicester City), Theo Walcott (Arsenal), Danny Welbeck (Arsenal).


« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 01:21:18 PM by MarkW »
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1168 on: March 17, 2016, 01:23:21 PM »
2 of those strikers will miss out on the Euro's if Rooney is fit. Got a feeling it'll be Vardy and Walcott out.
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1169 on: March 17, 2016, 01:30:12 PM »
 could always take the extra forward by leaving Walker out. Dier, Stones and even Milner can all cover at r/b. Not a fan of either Lallana or Henderson but looking round it is an area we are a bit short in if Wilshere and Oxlade Chamberlain are unavailable
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1170 on: March 17, 2016, 02:04:50 PM »
Noble probably should have got a look in.

Sterling? Really?
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1171 on: March 17, 2016, 03:12:27 PM »
Couple of points:-

Danny Welbeck and Jordan Henderson are not good enough.

The new kit looks fuggin disgusting.

Hodgson said door is still open for players.

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1172 on: March 17, 2016, 03:27:59 PM »
welbeck / sturridge / walcott all sick notes, expect minimum of 1 of these to be out before the tournament, If by some miracle they all stay fit, I certainly wouldn't take all 3, much too big a risk IMO
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1173 on: March 17, 2016, 03:49:49 PM »

The new kit looks fuggin disgusting.


Absolutely awful top.

The away kit also has far too much claret and blue.
 :-X.
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #1174 on: March 17, 2016, 03:51:17 PM »
Best 11 people.....

Butland

Clyne
Cahill
Smalling
Bertrand (no other LB there!)

Drinkwater/Henderson
Ali
Barkley

Sterling
Kane
Vardy

It's a very unbalanced squad, if we play 4 in midfield then Milner is a shoe-in which depresses me - where are the wingers?! I think Hodgson will pick

Hart

Clyne
Jagielka
Cahill
Bertrand

Milner
Henderson
Barkley
Sterling

Kane
Sturridge

We don't really have a steady, experienced central midfielder.


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