[Atomic]

You are blaming wingers for last season's lack of creativity?

In previous promotion campaigns we've had the likes of Koren, Greening, Koumas, Texeira, Pereira all creating from central positions.

For £11m and with a Premier League pedigree, you'd expect even just a small amount of vision and flair.

None of those you mentioned were defensive minded midfielders. Koumas was often left forward, Pereira was predominantly a "10".

We've also had the likes of Claudio Yacob.

[Atomic]

If we pidgeon-hole Livermore as defensive midfield, then Molumby is a better play at doing that anyway.

Net result is Livermore is not required at WBA.

You can keep banging the same drum but if he wants to see out his contract he's perfectly entitled to and all the bellyaching in the world won't change that.

[GREGMT]

You can keep banging the same drum but if he wants to see out his contract he's perfectly entitled to and all the bellyaching in the world won't change that.

JL should be treated with contempt for outstaying his welcome at WBA. 

[SmethDan]

I'm taking your inability to use the quote function correctly as a sign that your face is currently in transition somewhere between purple and blue......  .

[gazberg]

JL should be treated with contempt for outstaying his welcome at WBA.

That could be applied to half the squad at times though. It's no players fault we are chained to dross, it's the clowns that ran the club

[Atomic]

JL should be treated with contempt for outstaying his welcome at WBA.

Ridiculous comment. You can't criticise anyone for honouring a contract.

Your argument is irrational. Maybe not to you but to the wider world it is.

[skyclad99]

Lowest number of goals scored in a championship season since when?

We couldn't create, that's why we never went up.  Ismael was focused on a rock solid defence and it worked for roughly 20 games.  When the dam burst, that was it. 

Livermore was excellent for roughly the first 8 games which contributed to a strong start.  But then it was evident he couldn't keep up with the energetic press.  It was at this point Mulumby and TGH should've taken over.  However, Livermore continued and we made it worse by then adding Reach to the midfield.

Not three words Iever thought you would put together Greg😂

[Fritzl Palace]

I mean, he is an awful footballer who, with age, has lost the only ability he had, which was covering a decent amount of ground, but the blame for him still being here is solely with previous persons in managerial roles within the club who afforded terrible footballers, lengthy and costly contracts.

When the end of the season rolls around, there will be no more Bartley and Livermore which I truly cannot wait for.

[zippyandbungle]

I mean, he is an awful footballer who, with age, has lost the only ability he had, which was covering a decent amount of ground, but the blame for him still being here is solely with previous persons in managerial roles within the club who afforded terrible footballers, lengthy and costly contracts.

When the end of the season rolls around, there will be no more Bartley and Livermore which I truly cannot wait for.

It’s always a risk,footballers all dip off at different ages and at differing rates of knots.

[LiamTheBaggie]

JL should be treated with contempt for outstaying his welcome at WBA.

Your argument loses all credibility when you come out with garbage like this.

Your hatred for JL just shines through in all of your posts.

And anyone who treats a player with contempt for honouring a contract we've dished out to them is a prat of the highest order. It is uncalled for and quite frankly unacceptable.

[Fritzl Palace]

It’s always a risk,footballers all dip off at different ages and at differing rates of knots.

Giving a guy whose only attribute is linked to the factors that naturally dip as you get older a five year contract was always fairly ridiculous. Technically, he has always been nothing short of abysmal.

[GREGMT]

Your argument loses all credibility when you come out with garbage like this.

Your hatred for JL just shines through in all of your posts.

And anyone who treats a player with contempt for honouring a contract we've dished out to them is a prat of the highest order. It is uncalled for and quite frankly unacceptable.

You calling me a prat, just as well you are a moderator because if that is the other way around it is a forum ban!

[GREGMT]

Your argument loses all credibility when you come out with garbage like this.

Your hatred for JL just shines through in all of your posts.

And anyone who treats a player with contempt for honouring a contract we've dished out to them is a prat of the highest order. It is uncalled for and quite frankly unacceptable.

You know what winds me up, people having a pop at Johnstone and Robinson, whilst saying nothing regarding Livermore.

Livermore is an £11m liability.

Just the ex Villa connection then.....

[Fritzl Palace]

I think the issue, Greg, is that the majority (well anyone with working eyes at least) of people can see that Livermore is terrible, but there is a difference between thinking someone isn't very good and showing pure hatred and bile towards them which, as the months have gone by, is the point you have reached with him.

In an ideal world Jake would have done the right thing for the club and not triggered the extension as whatever he is being paid by us is still far too much, but he knows that this is his last contract of any worth so you cannot begrudge him taking it. Blame those who afforded him that option in the first place

[Atomic]

You know what winds me up, people having a pop at Johnstone and Robinson, whilst saying nothing regarding Livermore.

Livermore is an £11m liability.

Just the ex Villa connection then.....

I'd say Bartley probably gets as much criticism as anyone does, he never played for Villa.

Maybe you're just seeing things you want to see?

[GREGMT]

Johnstone has moved to a mid table EPL club, so all those continually berating him now look to have egg on the faces, sure he wasn't perfect, but he's now bettered himself.

Robinson has been infinitely better than Burke, who was £15m of trash, what is the exact problem with Robinson.

Bartley cost £400,000 probably worth what we paid.

Livermore £11m say no more......

[GREGMT]

I think the issue, Greg, is that the majority (well anyone with working eyes at least) of people can see that Livermore is terrible, but there is a difference between thinking someone isn't very good and showing pure hatred and bile towards them which, as the months have gone by, is the point you have reached with him.

In an ideal world Jake would have done the right thing for the club and not triggered the extension as whatever he is being paid by us is still far too much, but he knows that this is his last contract of any worth so you cannot begrudge him taking it. Blame those who afforded him that option in the first place

I saw people hammering Johnstone regularly which was pure hatred.

I saw people berating Robinson for ducking out of ONE CHALLENGE in one match.  Small minded and not seeing the picture.

Yes I can't stand Livermore because we have wasted £11m on rubbish, Burke was even worse at £15m, thankfully he didn't hang around......

[Atomic]

Do you know something Greg.

Every now and then on a special birthday or through a lockdown or something, a player or ex player will, right out of the blue, phone a fan and have a chat with them.

If any player or ex player ever phones you, I really wish I could see your face if it turned out to be Jake Livermore. 

[phbaggies]

Johnstone has moved to a mid table EPL club, so all those continually berating him now look to have egg on the faces, sure he wasn't perfect, but he's now bettered himself.

Robinson has been infinitely better than Burke, who was £15m of trash, what is the exact problem with Robinson.

Bartley cost £400,000 probably worth what we paid.

Livermore £11m say no more......

I thought it was £10m? 174 games for us over 5 years (plus England call-ups), countless managers, all rate him. Yes we could get better, particularly in the premiership, but he isn't half as bad as you try to make out!

He genuinely gave a sh/t when we got promoted during covid as it saved jobs at the club, his tears of relief wasn't lost on me, at least he cared, and at least he tries.....

[skyclad99]

I thought it was £10m? 174 games for us over 5 years (plus England call-ups), countless managers, all rate him. Yes we could get better, particularly in the premiership, but he isn't half as bad as you try to make out!

He genuinely gave a sh/t when we got promoted during covid as it saved jobs at the club, his tears of relief wasn't lost on me, at least he cared, and at least he tries.....

Not entirely true ph, Big Sam dropped him as soon as he could. Your second paragraph however is entirely correct.

[MarkW]

Lowest number of goals scored in a championship season since when?

We couldn't create, that's why we never went up. Ismael was focused on a rock solid defence and it worked for roughly 20 games.  When the dam burst, that was it. 

Livermore was excellent for roughly the first 8 games which contributed to a strong start.  But then it was evident he couldn't keep up with the energetic press.  It was at this point Mulumby and TGH should've taken over.  However, Livermore continued and we made it worse by then adding Reach to the midfield.

Actually we could create, we just couldn't finish.

No forward or winger in our team outperformed their non-penalty xG, meaning they all had below average seasons for finishing. Grant was closest at 98% of his expected goals, but if Hugill and Robinson  performed at a similar rate, we'd have been fine. Hugill would have had an extra 5 goals in his half season, and Robinson would have made double figures. .

Also, Ismael wasn't "focused on a rock solid defence". He was focused on pressing and winning the ball high up the pitch, so the opposition is out of position. The fact that means the defence had to do less is a welcome bonus.

You warp everything because of this irrational hatred of a player. You think members who tell you you're wrong have a love-in with him. I don't think anyone would have him in their first choice XI, but unlike you we don't blame him for being here. I daresay plenty of us would rather he hadn't played so much over the past few seasons, but your dogged vendetta against makes you lack credibility in anything you say on the subject.

[LiamTheBaggie]

You calling me a prat, just as well you are a moderator because if that is the other way around it is a forum ban!

No.

I said anyone who treats a player with contempt purely because they do not like them being here is a prat and that such behaviour is totally unacceptable.

If you fit that criteria then there's not a lot I can do about that other than pity you.

[LiamTheBaggie]

You know what winds me up, people having a pop at Johnstone and Robinson, whilst saying nothing regarding Livermore.

Livermore is an £11m liability.

Just the ex Villa connection then.....

This thread is littered with posters (myself included) who have been criticial of Livermore.

I've also been critical of Johnstone and Robinson too.

The problem you have is that you have some warped viewpoint that everyone is a supportive of Livermore when this is really not the case.

Your hatred for the bloke means you cannot even view this forum with any objectivity anymore because you constantly make up myths to try and support your views.

The difference between you, me and other members of this forum is quite stark.

We criticise Livermore for his performances. You just hate him.

[gazberg]

I've slated Livermore, Bartley and Phillips loads as they turn in rubbish performances more often than not IMO.

Saying that you simply cannot blame any of them for taking the contracts our dumbass owners dish out via their minions.

[Baggie79]

My heart sinks every time I log on and see another petty Livermore topic added too. Get over it and just accept that some like him and some dont and then talk about something that matters.