[MarkW]

This is down to Ismael.  The 1 year extension is only triggered by a set no. of appearances.

Livermore is obviously "a big cheese" within the club.

Fair play, Allardyce stood up to him last season.  Maybe a lack of ambition, and retaining the likes of Livermore, dissuaded Allardyce from re-signing last Summer?

There are a number of midfielders better than Livermore at the club, but Ismael can't see it.

Hasn't Ismael said that if he's fit he plays?

And you know this how?

[Albionic]

And you know this how?

He read it in the express and dingle article

But the Express & Star understands Livermore has triggered a 12-month extension – which was activated after he made a set number of appearances

[MarkW]

He read it in the express and dingle article

But the Express & Star understands Livermore has triggered a 12-month extension – which was activated after he made a set number of appearances

Fair enough. That's a shame.

[KYA]

This is down to Ismael.  The 1 year extension is only triggered by a set no. of appearances.

Livermore is obviously "a big cheese" within the club.

Fair play, Allardyce stood up to him last season.  Maybe a lack of ambition, and retaining the likes of Livermore, dissuaded Allardyce from re-signing last Summer?

There are a number of midfielders better than Livermore at the club, but Ismael can't see it.

Hasn't Ismael said that if he's fit he plays?

I find this to be disingenuous it states in the paper Livermore passed the set number of games months ago blaming this on VI is really streching it.

[GREGMT]

I find this to be disingenuous it states in the paper Livermore passed the set number of games months ago blaming this on VI is really streching it.

Ismael has been picking Livermore since August 2021,  no one else's fault is it?

[KYA]

Ismael has been picking Livermore since August 2021,  no one else's fault is it?

So you're a new manager at a club and you decide in the first week you won't be picking the captain anymore?
Also due to injuries and suspensions, you still wouldn't use him and play someone else am I understanding you correctly?

[KN22]

Apparently, it's a clause in his contract that's automatically triggered based on number of appearances, which he passed some time ago.
Must be a slow news day.

Thats exactly what it is. So the comments such as 'terrible decision' are inaccurate. It was part of his last deal. As someone has posted, it could be a way to ensure we at least get some money if and when he leaves.

[johnny Cash]

So you're a new manager at a club and you decide in the first week you won't be picking the captain anymore?
Also due to injuries and suspensions, you still wouldn't use him and play someone else am I understanding you correctly?

I think that is exactly what he is saying.

The papers say he triggered it a while ago, so its likely the clause only required 10 or 15 appearances. Even with all of Livermore's limitations, I find it hard to imagine he wouldnt have hit that under the majority of managers. Can't see how anyone can blame VI for this, unless they are now completely blinded in their dislike of him.

[GREGMT]

So you're a new manager at a club and you decide in the first week you won't be picking the captain anymore?
Also due to injuries and suspensions, you still wouldn't use him and play someone else am I understanding you correctly?

Captain is of little relevance, plenty of other senior players could do it.

Apart from starting the season, to allow Molumby to settle into the club, is there any good reason why he should have started 90% of the games?  This has triggered the clause.

Absolute no way do we need him in midfield next season. 

I'm not averse to him playing centre back, but there are multiple options better than him in that position, where we are well blessed.

Allardyce didn't select him, why was he re-integorated?

[KN22]

I find this to be disingenuous it states in the paper Livermore passed the set number of games months ago blaming this on VI is really streching it.

Nothing whatsoever to do with the manager. Let's at least read the information. Triggered by Jake having made the agreed number of appearances.

[GREGMT]

Nothing whatsoever to do with the manager. Let's at least read the information. Triggered by Jake having made the agreed number of appearances.

I didn't realise Livermore was fully part of team selection for matchday?

[Hull Baggie]

This is down to Ismael.  The 1 year extension is only triggered by a set no. of appearances.

Livermore is obviously "a big cheese" within the club.

Fair play, Allardyce stood up to him last season.  Maybe a lack of ambition, and retaining the likes of Livermore, dissuaded Allardyce from re-signing last Summer?

There are a number of midfielders better than Livermore at the club, but Ismael can't see it.

Hasn't Ismael said that if he's fit he plays?

he did, and then he clarified the statement by saying something like "if fit and showing in training that he is worthy of a spot"...same as every other player.

[alex1]

Shows a lack of long term ambition. The lack of creativity on midfield, is to my mind, the team's biggest problem at the minute. We should be looking for our next midfielder. Mulumby is really just a younger version. How does Ian Pearce spend his time?

[KYA]

Captain is of little relevance, plenty of other senior players could do it.

Apart from starting the season, to allow Molumby to settle into the club, is there any good reason why he should have started 90% of the games?  This has triggered the clause.

Absolute no way do we need him in midfield next season. 

I'm not averse to him playing centre back, but there are multiple options better than him in that position, where we are well blessed.

Allardyce didn't select him, why was he re-integorated?

We don't know how many games it took to trigger the clause but the question i'm asking is would you have stopped playing him period?
Mulumby for instance has 15 appearances under his belt so to avoid the clause let's assume he wouldn't have played this season but someone would have had to.

[baggiejohn]

Thats exactly what it is. So the comments such as 'terrible decision' are inaccurate. It was part of his last deal. As someone has posted, it could be a way to ensure we at least get some money if and when he leaves.

I can't remember if it was on this forum, or I saw it somewhere else, but there was an article recently about the difference between playing sport at elite level & say, semi-professional.

Almost all professional sport is like an iceberg, what you see on the playing field is only the tip of the huge mechanism that goes on to support it.

The owners of WBAFC have a policy to develop young players, with a view to capability for elite level football.
The main legacy of Dan Ashworth was the establishment of the mechanism for our academy.

Even if a first team player's capacity is diminished, doesn't it make sense to retain his services as a mentor for younger players both on & off the pitch?

[baggies_24]

I’m not Livermore’s biggest fan & admit he’s a extremely limited footballer with the ball at his feet and has been part of the furniture in the gradual decline from been a established Premier League team to what will most likely be a mid-table championship team. However I do think he’s the scape goat at the moment he’s actually been fairly solid this season. I can think of many others in the team that deserve the pelters Livermore gets. I’d say he’s probably the fittest of them out there he goes for 95 minutes & has been involved in some big moments late on in games (nicking the ball of the QPR lad at home for the winner)

For this division he’s absolutely fine for another year, I’d like to see him eventually be phased out for Mulumby or given a chance at CB. If we somehow miraculously go up then he needs to be moved on.

[baggiejohn]

Captain is of little relevance, plenty of other senior players could do it.

Apart from starting the season, to allow Molumby to settle into the club, is there any good reason why he should have started 90% of the games?  This has triggered the clause.

Absolute no way do we need him in midfield next season. 

I'm not averse to him playing centre back, but there are multiple options better than him in that position, where we are well blessed.

Allardyce didn't select him, why was he re-integorated?

IMO Allardyce wanted to buy a team, VI is happy to try to build one.

I suspect Allardyce knew about the clause & dropped Livermore, so he could use his wages to bring somebody else in.
Very much short term thinking.

[smethwickw]

IMO Allardyce wanted to buy a team, VI is happy to try to build one.

I suspect Allardyce knew about the clause & dropped Livermore, so he could use his wages to bring somebody else in.
Very much short term thinking.

Big Sam was never going to stay on so I guess he wasn’t fussed about any clause. I suspect he dropped Livermore as he’s a poor footballer and needed upgrading.

[KYA]

Big Sam was never going to stay on so I guess he wasn’t fussed about any clause. I suspect he dropped Livermore as he’s a poor footballer and needed upgrading.

Last season we had options in midfield very different from this season not really comparable.

[GREGMT]

I’m not Livermore’s biggest fan & admit he’s a extremely limited footballer with the ball at his feet and has been part of the furniture in the gradual decline from been a established Premier League team to what will most likely be a mid-table championship team. However I do think he’s the scape goat at the moment he’s actually been fairly solid this season. I can think of many others in the team that deserve the pelters Livermore gets. I’d say he’s probably the fittest of them out there he goes for 95 minutes & has been involved in some big moments late on in games (nicking the ball of the QPR lad at home for the winner)

For this division he’s absolutely fine for another year, I’d like to see him eventually be phased out for Mulumby or given a chance at CB. If we somehow miraculously go up then he needs to be moved on.

I disagree with you, as I don't think Livermore would make the midfield of any other Championship team.  Livermore is 6th in terms of the most league minutes for a WBA player (above Mowatt).

We have scored 6 goals in the last 12 league matches. 

He has delivered 1 assist / 0 goals all season.

Are level is now of a bottom half Championship team.  He needs moving on and fast (along with others).

[smethwickw]

Last season we had options in midfield very different from this season not really comparable.

We only had options after we’d bought in Maitland Niles and Yokuslu. Sam identified midfield as a weakness and sorted it out straight away. Both should have been replaced in the summer but Val is obviously a big fan of JL.

[LiamTheBaggie]

IMO Allardyce wanted to buy a team, VI is happy to try to build one.

I suspect Allardyce knew about the clause & dropped Livermore, so he could use his wages to bring somebody else in.
Very much short term thinking.

The clause wouldn't have bothered Allardyce in the slightest.

He was clear he wanted a better player and he went and got one in Yokuslu.

Just like he did with Sawyers, Diangana and co.

[seteefeet]

The clause wouldn't have bothered Allardyce in the slightest.

He was clear he wanted a better player and he went and got one in Yokuslu.

Just like he did with Sawyers, Diangana and co.

It's what we need right now, someone with the experience and nous to look at what's going wrong and address it.
Allardyce is known as a negative manager, with a set way of playing, yet I would guess he has played every formation known to man at some point in his career. Like him or loathe him, he is a clever football man and is never slow to adapt or change if things aren't working.


Maybe in a few years Val will have learned and developed but, at the minute, his inflexibility and one track focus on his system, is making him look incredibly naive and a bit foolish.

[KN22]

I didn't realise Livermore was fully part of team selection for matchday?

Blimey, you really do have an issue with him dont you? You raved about Molumby a few months ago. The more we see of him the less I like personally. Yes Jake should be moved on but, as already stated elsewhere, he  is not alone and at least gives a damn about the club. I wish this could be said of all of the squad.

[SmethDan]

Ismael has been picking Livermore since August 2021,  no one else's fault is it?

You know, I'm beginning to get the impression you're not very keen on Jake Livermore and Valerian Ismael being part of the fixtures and fittings at West Bromwich Albion.

I'm normally quite sensitive of people's feelings towards players and staff but this has completely passed me by up until now. I'm a little surprised I didn't notice sooner in all honesty...........  .