[SmethDan]

you could say the same for corner flag which usually does more than Livermore

I'm sorry but that's very harsh on Jake. Corner flags outnumber him by four to one in every game. Poor lad can't be expected to cover all four corners of the pitch at the same time.

[paulosull]

I'm sorry but that's very harsh on Jake. Corner flags outnumber him by four to one in every game. Poor lad can't be expected to cover all four corners of the pitch at the same time.

got me there mate 👏

[Hull Baggie]

I'm sorry but I just don't get it with Livermore.  I see "a muck and nettles" type of player with little quality, honest as the day is long, tremendous effort, team man.  And he can be effective at this level, just.

I get flashbacks to Arsenal, Leeds and Villa over Xmas and it was just painful watching out midfield. So out of our depth it was truly embarrassing.

you do realise that Livermore only featured in 1 of those games (for 37 minutes against Villa before being sent off)? Our poor midfield in those games had nothing to do with Jake Livermore.

[skyclad99]

you do realise that Livermore only featured in 1 of those games (for 37 minutes against Villa before being sent off)? Our poor midfield in those games had nothing to do with Jake Livermore.

Trust you to come out with some facts Hull, you have spoilt a good rant there😂

[KN22]

you do realise that Livermore only featured in 1 of those games (for 37 minutes against Villa before being sent off)? Our poor midfield in those games had nothing to do with Jake Livermore.

I recognised this but why spoil a good conspiracy theory

[Albionic]

Disagree, our biggest problem is the defence.  The argument against our midfield is that against 3 decent midfielders even 2 good players will struggle.

Nail on the head, if the oppo just lamp it over midfield then it doesn’t matter how good / bad midfield is, if the press works and you win the ball back in their final 3rd it doesn’t matter how good the defensive midfield is BUT against a team prepared to take us on at football with 3 versus our 2 in midfield we are bang in trouble, that is where the manger has to recognise the issue and resolve it. Yes JL has limitations but the Stoke game was not down to him. VI got it wrong and failed to react, thatx the real issue

[GREGMT]

you do realise that Livermore only featured in 1 of those games (for 37 minutes against Villa before being sent off)? Our poor midfield in those games had nothing to do with Jake Livermore.

Fair do's you are correct, hats off.  I will point out Livermore was utterly abysmal for those 37 mins, as we got absolutely trounced.

Livermore was nowhere to be seen in Albion's greatest victory since 30 December 1978, I will say.

The reality is with Mowatt now out for a period, the pressure is massively on Jake to deliver.  He cost £11m, has international and premier league experience.  We cannot afford to collapse in this pre Xmas stretch.

[skyclad99]

Fair do's you are correct, hats off.  I will point out Livermore was utterly abysmal for those 37 mins, as we got absolutely trounced.

Livermore was nowhere to be seen in Albion's greatest victory since 30 December 1978, I will say.

The reality is with Mowatt now out for a period, the pressure is massively on Jake to deliver.  He cost £11m, has international and premier league experience.  We cannot afford to collapse in this pre Xmas stretch.

Seriously, I would give up if I were you.....

[GREGMT]

Seriously, I would give up if I were you.....

The boys from B6 walked through us, made us look like mugs, you forgot?  Then to compound matters we were reduced to 10!

[boinging_along]

Definitely no vendettas though!

[GREGMT]

Definitely no vendettas though!

Call it as me having a vendetta against Jake Livermore if you want?  If we can manage this period of games without Mowatt with a good pts haul then JL can take all the plaudits.

However, multiple posters criticise Sam Johnstone, so I think people have their vendetta against the goalkeeper!

[skyclad99]

The boys from B6 walked through us, made us look like mugs, you forgot?  Then to compound matters we were reduced to 10!

i have not forgotten at all, last year many teams walked through us and made us look like mugs, so I don't see how that is Jakes fault - there are 11 players on the pitch.

[iwastherein68]

I find it laughable pathetic that against a scenerio of a possible lengthy absence of Mowatt, that already some people are suggesting combinations of Reach/ Molumby / Phillips for our midfield and still excluding Jake.

[skyclad99]

I find it laughable pathetic that against a scenerio of a possible lengthy absence of Mowatt, that already some people are suggesting combinations of Reach/ Molumby / Phillips for our midfield and still excluding Jake.

Its both 68, I don't get it either.

[seteefeet]

I think it perfectly reasonable to be concerned by the Mowatt situation. He is by far the stronger of the two, he's a better passer, tackler, shooter and header, he also reads the game better so is going to be a massive loss and, if we are relying on Jake to pick up that baton, it just won't work. That's why the key to it is who comes in. VI needs to look at Jake's strengths and weaknesses and put someone alongside him to give us the most stability.
It is not beyond the realms of possibility though that the answer to losing Mowatt, would be to change the midfield completely, but, given our squad limitations, I admit that that is unlikely.

[johnny Cash]

I find it laughable pathetic that against a scenerio of a possible lengthy absence of Mowatt, that already some people are suggesting combinations of Reach/ Molumby / Phillips for our midfield and still excluding Jake.

The only posts I’ve seen about a Reach / Molumby partnership are talking about the situation when Livermore picks up his 5th yellow and is not available.

[Hull Baggie]

Call it as me having a vendetta against Jake Livermore if you want?  If we can manage this period of games without Mowatt with a good pts haul then JL can take all the plaudits.

However, multiple posters criticise Sam Johnstone, so I think people have their vendetta against the goalkeeper!

Why would he take all the plaudits? If he deserves them then yes he can take plaudits but it's a team game.
 If we get a good points haul from the  games Mowatt misses it will most likely be because of team performance...same if we don't pick up many points.

Some posters do seem to have a vendetta against Johnstone you are right.

[GREGMT]

Why would he take all the plaudits? If he deserves them then yes he can take plaudits but it's a team game.
 If we get a good points haul from the  games Mowatt misses it will most likely be because of team performance...same if we don't pick up many points.

Some posters do seem to have a vendetta against Johnstone you are right.

The issue is if we go back to last season, then Sawyers and Livermore were bombed out the team by Allardyce, only used in half of EPL games. 

Other (much maligned) players were retained for longer playing time, examples Johnstone (37 games), Furlong (35), Phillips (33), Ajayi (33), Bartley (30), Townsend (25) etc.

Clearly, after utilising Yokuslu, AMN & Snodgrass, there was an upswing in performances/results.  The Manager highlighted centre-midfield as the key problem area. 

Sawyers has gone (racism stuff impacted) but Livermore is hanging on. 

Onto this season, firstly Hugill & secondly Livermore have done nothing in goal scoring/contribution and that's putting huge pressure on the wingers & centre backs from set pieces.

Can we continue the same pts average without Mowatt?

[KN22]

Probably not, but that’s not Livermore’s fault is it? He is good enough at this level without doubt. Not for the premier but we are not in that division.

[GREGMT]

The recent evidence shows that Livermore should not be used as a starter in the league ever again, unless there is a suspension/injury crisis.

1) at the start of the season there was a need for Molumby to integrate into the WBA set up and get accommodation in the area etc.
2) Snodgrass has been injured/not fully fit for several weeks.
3) Livermore is ranked 4th in ability in a list including Mowatt, Molumby, Snodgrass.
4) Livermore is not fit enough to play this PRESSING style for 90 mins, he is only good for 60 mins before tiring.  He has never been a good athlete.
5) Livermore has been the critical figure in these complaints over style of play.  He lacks quality.

The best scenario is to give him a free transfer, regardless of Promotion.

[KN22]

The recent evidence shows that Livermore should not be used as a starter in the league ever again, unless there is a suspension/injury crisis.

1) at the start of the season there was a need for Molumby to integrate into the WBA set up and get accommodation in the area etc.
2) Snodgrass has been injured/not fully fit for several weeks.
3) Livermore is ranked 4th in ability in a list including Mowatt, Molumby, Snodgrass.
4) Livermore is not fit enough to play this PRESSING style for 90 mins, he is only good for 60 mins before tiring.  He has never been a good athlete.
5) Livermore has been the critical figure in these complaints over style of play.  He lacks quality.

The best scenario is to give him a free transfer, regardless of Promotion.

I am just not sure what it is that fires this vendetta you have against Livermore. I enjoyed the performance yesterday but would also point out that in the previous 2 games we had played, Jake was a candidate for man of the match. To suggest he tires after 60 minutes is simply not true either. It’s good that we now have options for the midfield roles but Jake is very much one of them. Don’t believe me? Let’s see what the gaffer thinks.

[seteefeet]

I am just not sure what it is that fires this vendetta you have against Livermore. I enjoyed the performance yesterday but would also point out that in the previous 2 games we had played, Jake was a candidate for man of the match. To suggest he tires after 60 minutes is simply not true either. It’s good that we now have options for the midfield roles but Jake is very much one of them. Don’t believe me? Let’s see what the gaffer thinks.

I agree with Greg. No vendetta, I just think he inhibits us too much going forward, yet offers nothing defensively.
You also make a point about him being close to MoM but that only happens when we play poorly. He only looks good when we are bad.
Yesterday we looked better all over the park, not just in midfield. The defence was better, as was the forward line.
I really like Mowatt but, after yesterday, he too should have to win back his place. Molumby and Snodgrass were that good.

[Albionic]

I think the incumbents should keep their places, but if they drop off at all they know JL and Mowett are waiting to step in.
In truth there are not many chumps sides who could claim similar strength.

[boinging_along]

I actually thought Snodgrass didn't offer that much.  Tidy on the ball but if we revert back to plan A he would be seriously exposed due to his lack of pace - Molumby did all his running for him.  Even Livermore would have come out of that game with credit as Bristol were so poor in the middle.

There's a world of difference if the ball is being moved from defence to midfield to forwards like we did yesterday and the previous games where it was defence straight to forwards and expect your MF to sprint to keep up, then expect them to sprint to help the defence when it comes back.

[gazberg]

I actually thought Snodgrass didn't offer that much.  Tidy on the ball but if we revert back to plan A he would be seriously exposed due to his lack of pace - Molumby did all his running for him.  Even Livermore would have come out of that game with credit as Bristol were so poor in the middle.

There's a world of difference if the ball is being moved from defence to midfield to forwards like we did yesterday and the previous games where it was defence straight to forwards and expect your MF to sprint to keep up, then expect them to sprint to help the defence when it comes back.

That's why they had a good balance/chemistry. They understood what each other could and not could do. I do feel that due to Fulhams very athletic squad however they would get over run next Saturday though.