[baggie82]

When it’s quite clear that a player has had a good game yet particular posters still dig out that player it’s 100% a vendetta. It’s well known on this forum.

I didn't see the QPR game where he apparently played well or our match at Preston in which he apparently was average. Every other game I seen this season and he has been somewhere between alright, a little annoying to infuriating. One good game in ten matches isn't up to scratch.

[baggie82]

It's a vendetta when you constantly criticise a player for making certain mistakes but excuse other players from doing the same.

I recall 2 particularly poor bits from Livermore tonight, he skied a clearance in midfield straight up in the air, and he badly misplaced a forward pass. The rest of the game he was no worse (or better) than any of the other players.  Regardless of how he plays you stick the knife in.

Mowatt made more errors than Livermore, for example, he headed it straight up in the air while in our box, he also mishit several passes, his shooting was even worse than Livermore's.

Hugill was the worst player on the pitch tonight by some distance.

If you read the post-match thread it is full of comments from me criticising Johnstone, Townsend and Hugill along with the team in general without any mention of Livermore. Anyone suggesting posters on here have an agenda should name the said poster, or keep their mud-slinging to themselves.

[Aztech]

I didn't see the QPR game where he apparently played well or our match at Preston in which he apparently was average. Every other game I seen this season and he has been somewhere between alright, a little annoying to infuriating. One good game in ten matches isn't up to scratch.

I’m sure the manager and coaching staff will agree with your comments and we won’t see Livermore anywhere near the squad for the foreseeable future.

[baggie82]

I’m sure the manager and coaching staff will agree with your comments and we won’t see Livermore anywhere near the squad for the foreseeable future.

Sarcasm at its finest. I expect him to be first choice for the foreseeable future unless results really dip and/or Molumby takes his chance once the inevitable suspension kicks in.

[GREGMT]

Quote me as having the vendetta if you want, I'm calling what I see.  Deep down everyone knows Livermore is only just about Championship standard.  11 games in, 0 assists and 0 goals for a team in an automatic promotion spot.

Compare that with the likes of Koren, Koumas, Texeira, Greening, Gera, Dorrans, Morrison, McInnes etc.

[boinging_along]

Livermore was taken to the cleaners tonight by Stoke's superior players in the middle.  Essentially that's what decided the game, we were overrun 2nd half, we looked slow and disjointed.

Central midfield is the biggest problem in the WBA team.

Disagree, our biggest problem is the defence.  The argument against our midfield is that against 3 decent midfielders even 2 good players will struggle.

[frazzle]

Livermore was taken to the cleaners tonight by Stoke's superior players in the middle.  Essentially that's what decided the game, we were overrun 2nd half, we looked slow and disjointed.

Central midfield is the biggest problem in the WBA team.

We’ve seen enough of Livermore to know what he’s good at and what he’s not good at. But current tactics mean that he watches the ball sail over him, has to close down, and if he does get the ball then he has a split second to play a pass because it’s all about playing it forward quickly. What is the role of our midfield at the moment - I don’t think it’s clear.

[Baggiee_Boyy_Benn]

Quote me as having the vendetta if you want, I'm calling what I see.  Deep down everyone knows Livermore is only just about Championship standard.  11 games in, 0 assists and 0 goals for a team in an automatic promotion spot.

Compare that with the likes of Koren, Koumas, Texeira, Greening, Gera, Dorrans, Morrison, McInnes etc.

What are you talking about? Why are you comparing a current player to a previous 8 players?

[boinging_along]

Quote me as having the vendetta if you want, I'm calling what I see.  Deep down everyone knows Livermore is only just about Championship standard.  11 games in, 0 assists and 0 goals for a team in an automatic promotion spot.

Compare that with the likes of Koren, Koumas, Texeira, Greening, Gera, Dorrans, Morrison, McInnes etc.

He doesn't play anywhere near the kind of midfield roll as those players though! His main roll is mopping up and picking up the second ball from the defence.  All of those, except maybe McInnes, would not be able to do the job Livermore is asked to do.

He still has his moments but it's more about getting the ball
ack and giving it Phillips, Mowatt, Diangana, Robinson, Reach, Furlong to get forward.  Against QPR it was Livermore who won the ball back high up the pitch that started the winning goal.  He slid Furlong in tonight who crossed and Robinson had 2 chances from, he then cushioned a header back to Robinson for a 3rd chance.  It's more like saying why didn't Yacob have the goal scoring and assist rate of Koumas.

[GREGMT]

Disagree, our biggest problem is the defence.  The argument against our midfield is that against 3 decent midfielders even 2 good players will struggle.

That's a defence that so far has the best goals against record since 02/03 under Megson.

You call Joe Allen decent, lol.  He played multiple times for Swansea & Liverpool.  Nick Powell was once of Man Utd.  Vrancic has played in Norwich promotion winning teams.

[boinging_along]

What are you talking about? Why are you comparing a current player to a previous 8 players?

Apparently Livermore should have similar assist and goal rates as every recent creative midfielder we've had.  Just surprised he missed Pierera off.

[frazzle]

Quote me as having the vendetta if you want, I'm calling what I see.  Deep down everyone knows Livermore is only just about Championship standard.  11 games in, 0 assists and 0 goals for a team in an automatic promotion spot.

Compare that with the likes of Koren, Koumas, Texeira, Greening, Gera, Dorrans, Morrison, McInnes etc.

I don’t think anyone thinks you have a vendetta against Livermore. Don’t think that was suggested anywhere.

[boinging_along]

That's a defence that so far has the best goals against record since 02/03 under Megson.

You call Joe Allen decent, lol.  He played multiple times for Swansea & Liverpool.  Nick Powell was once of Man Utd.  Vrancic has played in Norwich promotion winning teams.

And you're surprised when Mowatt and Livermore - 2 (TWO) players are overrun by 3?

Our defence are a nightmare regardless of what you think to the Goals Against column.  I lost count how many times it was panic stations when Bartley and Ajayi get turned and are running back to our goal or when they head it straight out play, or countless other things they struggle with.

[GREGMT]

He doesn't play anywhere near the kind of midfield roll as those players though! His main roll is mopping up and picking up the second ball from the defence.  All of those, except maybe McInnes, would not be able to do the job Livermore is asked to do.

He still has his moments but it's more about getting the ball
ack and giving it Phillips, Mowatt, Diangana, Robinson, Reach, Furlong to get forward.  Against QPR it was Livermore who won the ball back high up the pitch that started the winning goal.  He slid Furlong in tonight who crossed and Robinson had 2 chances from, he then cushioned a header back to Robinson for a 3rd chance.  It's more like saying why didn't Yacob have the goal scoring and assist rate of Koumas.

I'm sorry but I just don't get it with Livermore.  I see "a muck and nettles" type of player with little quality, honest as the day is long, tremendous effort, team man.  And he can be effective at this level, just.

I get flashbacks to Arsenal, Leeds and Villa over Xmas and it was just painful watching out midfield. So out of our depth it was truly embarrassing.

[baggie82]

Apparently Livermore should have similar assist and goal rates as every recent creative midfielder we've had.  Just surprised he missed Pierera off.

I'd settle for a shot on target at some point this season.

[BAGGIE5]

Jake frustrations come from what he doesn’t do well. People almost think thats basics of being a midfielder. Just pass it to your player. He fluffs easy passes sometimes.

He does the pressing and breaking up really well. But what’s the point of this when you give straight back to opponents.

Can’t ever question his work rate or commitment.

[paulosull]

Problem is that we have only two midfielders his lack of technical ability,his lack of pace, his lack of distribution and his lack of a goal threat get highlighted more.

[lewisant]

I think he has been okay over the last 4 or 5 games, i generally think he's poor. I don't know a lot about Molumby but I would like to see him in for Jake alongside Alex Mowatt just to get a look. I have no worries if Livermore stays in but it'd be good to know if Molumby's a better option.

He works very hard, but he's very basic and I'd love to see how good our other options are. I'm not sure it'll happen.

[johnny Cash]

Livermore is poor. The problem I suspect we have, is we don’t have anyone better so there’s nothing we can do in the short term.

[Adder]

We were outnumbered in midfield last night and Mowatt had a pretty anonymous game. Livermore did at least battle away, yes needed more quality on occasions but he was at least a presence in there.

[paulosull]

We were outnumbered in midfield last night and Mowatt had a pretty anonymous game. Livermore did at least battle away, yes needed more quality on occasions but he was at least a presence in there.

you could say the same for corner flag which usually does more than Livermore

[iwastherein68]

you could say the same for corner flag which usually does more than Livermore

That's what I like , a little bit of constructive critisism.

[Atomic]

I think he has been okay over the last 4 or 5 games, i generally think he's poor. I don't know a lot about Molumby but I would like to see him in for Jake alongside Alex Mowatt just to get a look. I have no worries if Livermore stays in but it'd be good to know if Molumby's a better option.

He works very hard, but he's very basic and I'd love to see how good our other options are. I'm not sure it'll happen.

The only way is up for Molumby you'd have to hope. He's been hopeless so far but on very limitted evidence.

Jake is Jake you get what you get he's not going to progress at his age. Generally he's OK at this level, falls well short in the Premier League.

[wodenson46]

The only way is up for Molumby you'd have to hope. He's been hopeless so far but on very limitted evidence.

Jake is Jake you get what you get he's not going to progress at his age. Generally he's OK at this level, falls well short in the Premier League.

Absolutely. Molumby cannot be judged on a few minutes in a couple of games, but no doubt some have made up their minds already. Jake's errors  seem to be highlighted whilst the odd bit of good play gets overlooked he is, for me, generally ok, not good but ok at this level as Atomic says. However more performances from the team like last nights and Premier League is not going to be something we need worry about. It was truly abysmal and whilst Hugill was not too much worse than the rest, he was indeed one of the worst whilst  I thought Livermore was one of the better ones.

[gazberg]

Livermore is on 4 bookings now so one more yellow ijnthe next 8 games or so and he is suspended. Would like to see Molumby get a full 90 minutes. Impossible to judge him on his 2 cameos to date.