Author Topic: Nathan Ferguson Joins Crystal Palace  (Read 202312 times)

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johnny Cash

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #700 on: February 01, 2020, 11:36:10 PM »
Intersting Interview I heard tonight on WM (around 6:15pm), with Bilic.

Last part of Interview [3:11] talks about Ferguson. Clearly he will not be playing "unless he is staying". This is heard quite clearly twice in the interview.

Audio : https://audioboom.com/posts/7493529-listen-slaven-bilic-post-luton

I know He said ‘if’ but it sounded more to me like he meant now he’s staying he will be part of the squad

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #701 on: February 01, 2020, 11:43:18 PM »
Nothing personal against him at all, I’m sure he’s a good lad - but WBA, the fans and club come first. The powers that be obviously need to establish if there is any desire to reach a contract agreement and move forward. If not, he needs to be removed as far away from the first team as possible and banished from memory ASAP. We need everyone pulling in the right direction - whether or note he’s likeable or not is irrelevant, he would be a ‘bad egg’ and not someone or a situation we need anywhere near the ground during this vital end to the season.

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #702 on: February 01, 2020, 11:48:32 PM »
I know He said ‘if’ but it sounded more to me like he meant now he’s staying he will be part of the squad

Not in my view, If He is saying, meaning he signs another contract. Only way of knowing he is staying. Bilic also being very diplomatic.

Transcript hear (should have added to original post).

'Reporter'

Just finally one issue arising from the transfer window.
Nathan Ferguson didn't move to Crystal Palace in the end,
how do you go about integrating him back into your squad now.

'Bilic'
After along pause, ahh, Well we need every player. Nathan is a good player.
Nathan is a player that I like, I gave him his chance and admire to be fair
his quality and everything. And err....if he is fit it would be great to
have him of course. I do not know the stage of his injury and all that,
but "if he is staying" and is fit, of course, I am going to be hmm {pause} well {pause} I will, I like Nathan, "If he is staying" and if he is fit of course
he is going to be member of our squad

Personally, should be nowhere near 1st team or PL2 squad until he signs a new contract.

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #703 on: February 02, 2020, 01:17:14 AM »
A youth player turning down a (rumoured) 5 year 20k a week contract, with a 1m sign on bonus and 10k wage increase upon promotion, from the club that nurtured you for over a decade and gave you the chance is just greed. Unless he signs a new contract he shouldnt ever play for us again.

Best case scenario going forward is he signs a new contract with a set release clause that expires jan/summer 2021, works his ******** off and does his best to get us up and gets his big move whilst we make a sizeable profit. Best outcome for all parties.

Agree 100% with the second paragraph.

First half I can't be on board with cause we don't know what's gone on and our record with youngsters suggests it's a problem with us rather than them. I think we need to take a deep, hard look at how we're handling our young players

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #704 on: February 02, 2020, 03:08:48 AM »
Not in my view, If He is saying, meaning he signs another contract. Only way of knowing he is staying. Bilic also being very diplomatic.

Transcript hear (should have added to original post).

'Reporter'

Just finally one issue arising from the transfer window.
Nathan Ferguson didn't move to Crystal Palace in the end,
how do you go about integrating him back into your squad now.

'Bilic'
After along pause, ahh, Well we need every player. Nathan is a good player.
Nathan is a player that I like, I gave him his chance and admire to be fair
his quality and everything. And err....if he is fit it would be great to
have him of course. I do not know the stage of his injury and all that,
but "if he is staying" and is fit, of course, I am going to be hmm {pause} well {pause} I will, I like Nathan, "If he is staying" and if he is fit of course
he is going to be member of our squad

Personally, should be nowhere near 1st team or PL2 squad until he signs a new contract.

He’s simply saying if he’s at the club and fit, he will be in the squad.... nothing Bilic said in the interview has anything to do with Ferguson signing a contract or not.

Nothing more nothing less to it than that.


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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #705 on: February 02, 2020, 06:58:35 AM »
Agree 100% with the second paragraph.

First half I can't be on board with cause we don't know what's gone on and our record with youngsters suggests it's a problem with us rather than them. I think we need to take a deep, hard look at how we're handling our young players

I think also, to be fair, a footballers career can be a very short one due to injury.  Of course it would be nice if he accepted the lower offer, rejected Prem football to stay with us and look for a bigger money move in the future but, it comes with a lot of risk. 

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #706 on: February 02, 2020, 10:09:25 AM »
As someone who bangs the drum for youth development being the way forward for the club this is hugely frustrating.

You cannot fault the club for the contract offer they made it was quite simply the best they could have offered £20k in the Championship is the absolute most we can afford. They also threw in a year's salary as a bonus and matched Palace's £30k week on promotion. This is the stuff of dreams for Nathan Ferguson as recently as July 2019.

The irony of course is that we could have probably secured his services for the next 3 years in May 2019 for as little as £3k a week. However why would we? At that point we have an eighteen year old Centre Half who is under 6ft tall which is pretty much seen as the cut-off point for the position (yes some excellent Centre Halves have been shorter Colin Todd springs to mind but generally this is not the case)  plainly a very good defender but probably lacks the ball skills to push into Centre Mid or in the increasingly attacking modern full back role.

Even assuming that we could see that despite his lack stature he had potential to be a first team Centre Back the pathway to the first XI was blocked by Hegazi, Barkley, Dawson, O'Shea and Fitzwater. Even when Dawson left he was replaced by Ajayi.
If the club was serious about youth development when Dawson leaves you don't replace him but O'Shea and Fitzwater shuffle up as the back up. Even if that had happened you are still probably looking at loaning Ferguson out.

That then brings us to the loan market and the further down the pyramid you go the more the lack of height becomes an issue and the harder it becomes for us to place him.

Had Bilic not come in and looked at him and gone "your a full back son" I am not sure that he would have made it and with a 3 year contract he becomes the blocker for the next generation of defenders coming through the academy.

That said before he made his debut maybe there was a window were we could have put a contract on the table and said you are part of the first team squad but only if you sign this contract. 
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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #707 on: February 02, 2020, 10:11:59 AM »
Okay so I agree after all the shenanigans over the transfer window it was right not to play him on Saturday.  However, he should be considered alongside everyone else going forward, dependent on what the nature of this shadowy injury is.  Remember he is a very young lad, and if he gets booed when he comes on I do not think this would be fair. 

section5

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #708 on: February 02, 2020, 11:18:58 AM »
Here's an idea. Shall we give the young lad a bit of support? He's hardly downed tools, gone one social media spitting his dummy out or been unprofessional. It's a frustrating situation but maybe us as fans should put an arm around him instead of the inevitable slagging off and bad mouthing that he will probably get. This must have been quite an emotional journey in the past 8 months for the lad, from us not willing to offer a contract, to Slaven introducing him to his new position, to becoming one of the most wanted youngsters in his position in Europe, he was inevitably sold the dream and let's face it.. put yourself back to being 19. I would have probably handled it a lot worse. Past is the past, whether he stays beyond this season we shouldn't outcast him as a fan base, There's no way he would even consider staying if a baying mob of thousands of people start giving him abuse every time he steps out on the pitch. I for one hope in a twisted way the developments will mean he gets either the medical attention he needs now or at the end of the season (whatever is best for him) and he signs a contract and we sell him in a year or two for a juicy profit, while he develops as a player. That is my heart but my head is telling me he is going to sit it out until the summer and wait for offers and options- which in fairness would be a complete opposite to his previous summer of uncertainty. COYB let's show some class with all our players from now until the end of the season, it's so cliche but we can be the 12th man and carry these players over the line.

Maresca Was A Baggie

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #709 on: February 02, 2020, 11:20:36 AM »
As much as he may have been mislead by his agent etc etc, he was the one that ultimately didn't sign a contract with us. Now he has to accept that there is going to be a lot of friction within the club potentially, and certainly with some supporters. For me he shouldn't play ahead of any player that is currently under contract, as i find that disrespectful to those that want to be at a the club.

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #710 on: February 02, 2020, 11:22:54 AM »
Here's an idea. Shall we give the young lad a bit of support? He's hardly downed tools, gone one social media spitting his dummy out or been unprofessional. It's a frustrating situation but maybe us as fans should put an arm around him instead of the inevitable slagging off and bad mouthing that he will probably get. This must have been quite an emotional journey in the past 8 months for the lad, from us not willing to offer a contract, to Slaven introducing him to his new position, to becoming one of the most wanted youngsters in his position in Europe, he was inevitably sold the dream and let's face it.. put yourself back to being 19. I would have probably handled it a lot worse. Past is the past, whether he stays beyond this season we shouldn't outcast him as a fan base, There's no way he would even consider staying if a baying mob of thousands of people start giving him abuse every time he steps out on the pitch. I for one hope in a twisted way the developments will mean he gets either the medical attention he needs now or at the end of the season (whatever is best for him) and he signs a contract and we sell him in a year or two for a juicy profit, while he develops as a player. That is my heart but my head is telling me he is going to sit it out until the summer and wait for offers and options- which in fairness would be a complete opposite to his previous summer of uncertainty. COYB let's show some class with all our players from now until the end of the season, it's so cliche but we can be the 12th man and carry these players over the line.

Sorry Section5 but he has clearly shown no desire to be at the club. Why should we reintegrate him above others?? So Furlong sits on the bench to allow Ferguson to play?? Or Townsend, O'Shea?? Sorry but no. They all WANT to play for WBA, Ferguson clearly does not.

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #711 on: February 02, 2020, 11:35:15 AM »
Here's an idea. Shall we give the young lad a bit of support? He's hardly downed tools, gone one social media spitting his dummy out or been unprofessional. It's a frustrating situation but maybe us as fans should put an arm around him instead of the inevitable slagging off and bad mouthing that he will probably get. This must have been quite an emotional journey in the past 8 months for the lad, from us not willing to offer a contract, to Slaven introducing him to his new position, to becoming one of the most wanted youngsters in his position in Europe, he was inevitably sold the dream and let's face it.. put yourself back to being 19. I would have probably handled it a lot worse. Past is the past, whether he stays beyond this season we shouldn't outcast him as a fan base, There's no way he would even consider staying if a baying mob of thousands of people start giving him abuse every time he steps out on the pitch. I for one hope in a twisted way the developments will mean he gets either the medical attention he needs now or at the end of the season (whatever is best for him) and he signs a contract and we sell him in a year or two for a juicy profit, while he develops as a player. That is my heart but my head is telling me he is going to sit it out until the summer and wait for offers and options- which in fairness would be a complete opposite to his previous summer of uncertainty. COYB let's show some class with all our players from now until the end of the season, it's so cliche but we can be the 12th man and carry these players over the line.


You're talking about football fans here, the lad is going to get both barrels.
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jimmyj

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #712 on: February 02, 2020, 12:05:05 PM »
Quote from: Maresca Was A Baggie
Sorry Section5 but he has clearly shown no desire to be at the club. Why should we reintegrate him above others?? So Furlong sits on the bench to allow Ferguson to play?? Or Townsend, O'Shea?? Sorry but no. They all WANT to play for WBA, Ferguson clearly does not.

He showed the desire to be at the club long term, less than a year ago. As a club we (appeared) to show little desire to keep him. How does that square with your views?

Think of it this way: after a decade with the club it appeared the hierarchy had decided you weren't for them and after making noises that you wanted a new, long term contract nothing was forthcoming.

All of a sudden, within a matter of months, you're in the first team, being hailed as the new big thing with clubs the size of Juve and PSG asking after you and everybody's clamouring for you to sign a contract when less than a year ago you couldn't get them round the table.

If that was your kid, would you be so eager to sign up after the shenanigans of the previous year?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 12:10:42 PM by jimmyj »

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #713 on: February 02, 2020, 12:19:58 PM »
We had 'other priorities' back then. I believe we were looking for a management team at the time. Low and behold we found one and guess what? Between them they helped the lad realise some early potential in a position he was untried in at first team level.

They put their trust in him and on that basis he was offered very favourable terms. Terms he, his 'advisers' and those close to him believed could be bettered elsewhere. 'Cheers for the big break Slaven but I'm off. Places to go, people to see and all that'. And then there was a BOOM.
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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #714 on: February 02, 2020, 12:33:46 PM »
What has happened will be the subject of much conjecture and will change nowt.
How do all parties move forward is more important, number 1 is sort out the injury
2) in parallel with (1) assuming the injury is sorted (would be unusual if not) agree a contract of a short term basis, making clear that no signature means no playing (at any level)
3) if contract is signed treat the kid as anyone else, if not very publicly explain that he is not welcome and why he is not welcome

It’s an awful situation but the club must defend itself and make the lad master of his own destiny, he must be aware of his agents track record in Berahino’s career and hopefully he and his family can see its showing signs of unraveling in a similar manner!
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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #715 on: February 02, 2020, 12:35:57 PM »
Yeah I understand what you're saying in regards to the commitment but if any of you were in his shoes as a 19 year old lad who's had a whirlwind of a 7 odd month period how would you have handled this. Please don't give me the romantic idea of loyalty etc because I'm sorry but when money's involved and a promotion in role ( no matter how you regard Palace's stature they're in the premier league and we're not, the lads probably looked at wan bissakas route and saw it a stepping stone with an immediate pay rise), I suppose what I'm trying to say is put yourself as a 19 year old in his position (try remember yourself at that age). It's easy to point fingers and blame when the shoes on the other foot but i know if I was offered an immediate payrise at another company in the same industry, and my current employers were offering me a lesser wage now, only with the potential of reclaiming the possible deficit based on an outcome of events in 6 months time.. I think I know what we'd all be thinking and doing ( he will like us have bills to pay and mortgages at some point etc, if your 19 year old son was in that exact position there's only one direction your pointing them in, regardless of copious tripe of loyalty that us fans spout- that's the reason we are fans because we are loyal, players are employees and are humans in a job, even if they are fans they have different priorities)

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #716 on: February 02, 2020, 12:47:12 PM »
We had 'other priorities' back then. I believe we were looking for a management team at the time. Low and behold we found one and guess what? Between them they helped the lad realise some early potential in a position he was untried in at first team level.

They put their trust in him and on that basis he was offered very favourable terms. Terms he, his 'advisers' and those close to him believed could be bettered elsewhere. 'Cheers for the big break Slaven but I'm off. Places to go, people to see and all that'. And then there was a BOOM.

This isn't really an argument as it seems all of our youngsters seem to be left in the same position when it comes to contractual situations. I'd argue us signing the prospects on longer professional terms has not been the priority and won't be as we implement the short term success model seen in loaning players such as Barnes,Gayle,diangana Robinson etc and those coming in permanent cost next to nothing in the modern football world: Peltier, Bartley,Krovinovic etc. I'd argue that the integration and promotion of these players has far from being a priority unfortunately to those at the top - despite having one of the best academies around. I'd also argue on the other hand why it was only Bilic after all this time to realise his potential as a full back as opposed to a centre back? Questions have to be asked then of previous coaching staffs and managers who have missed what seems to be a natural position to the lad. I don't need to list the number of kids we have lost because we all know their names and all know we potentially could have developed them ourselves. I think we should look internally at how we handle our under 23s and see the reoccurring theme of losing players from our own academy due to our indecisiveness and lack of prioritising the kids for years in the first team.

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #717 on: February 02, 2020, 12:51:16 PM »
There is also the suggestion in the article that he wanted to sign a new deal in the summer but we didn't want to open talks. Loyalty is a two way thing.

Will be ****** off if he goes abroad though just to get a better deal for his agent.

What has really surprised me was the fees being talked about. I thought it was a £4 million down payment but they are saying it was £8 million. Can't help but feel we could have maybe budged to make the deal happen. Real roll of the dice now as to whether we get anywhere near that in the summer when he inevitably leaves.

He may have wanted a new deal in the summer but we just appointed a new manager, until the manager had seen him we shouldn’t be offering any one new contracts
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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #718 on: February 02, 2020, 12:59:45 PM »
He may have wanted a new deal in the summer but we just appointed a new manager, until the manager had seen him we shouldn’t be offering any one new contracts

But we're talking academy kids /u23/development squad whatever they're called these days. I'd be surprised if the final say on a contract for them is done by the first team coach/manager these days to be honest, wouldn't it be our director of football or head of development etc.  Like I mentioned in last post way too many of our academy players have found themselves in this situation just doesnt seem to be a priority, O'Shea was just in the same position.

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #719 on: February 02, 2020, 01:05:38 PM »
This isn't really an argument as it seems all of our youngsters seem to be left in the same position when it comes to contractual situations. I'd argue us signing the prospects on longer professional terms has not been the priority and won't be as we implement the short term success model seen in loaning players such as Barnes,Gayle,diangana Robinson etc and those coming in permanent cost next to nothing in the modern football world: Peltier, Bartley,Krovinovic etc. I'd argue that the integration and promotion of these players has far from being a priority unfortunately to those at the top - despite having one of the best academies around. I'd also argue on the other hand why it was only Bilic after all this time to realise his potential as a full back as opposed to a centre back? Questions have to be asked then of previous coaching staffs and managers who have missed what seems to be a natural position to the lad. I don't need to list the number of kids we have lost because we all know their names and all know we potentially could have developed them ourselves. I think we should look internally at how we handle our under 23s and see the reoccurring theme of losing players from our own academy due to our indecisiveness and lack of prioritising the kids for years in the first team.
I think you make a really valid point, which will only be exacerbated if we get promoted! In that scenario it’s hard to believe that the club will risk its position by promoting our kids while funding is available to bring in “tried and tested” players - damn the TV money
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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #720 on: February 02, 2020, 01:06:44 PM »
This isn't really an argument........

The seemingly inconvenient truth for many posting on this thread is that it really is part of the argument. He got his break, he got his contract offer and he turned it down. And for now at least his and his agent's gamble has blown up in theirs and our faces.

I often hear about how short players careers are and how they may only be one step away from a threatening injury. Grab the money while you can and run instead of developing your game and future earning potential.

Nobody is a winner in the current situation. We have a player who will be understandably upset and facing potential surgery. His bank balance will be short by approximately £19,000 this week (our offer). The irony of 'grab it while you can' is probably alive and well in the Ferguson household this morning.
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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #721 on: February 02, 2020, 01:11:02 PM »
The seemingly inconvenient truth for many posting on this thread is that it really is part of the argument. He got his break, he got his contract offer and he turned it down. And for now at least his and his agent's gamble has blown up in theirs and our faces.

I often hear about how short players careers are and how they may only be one step away from a threatening injury. Grab the money while you can and run instead of developing your game and future earning potential.

Nobody is a winner in the current situation. We have a player who will be understandably upset and facing potential surgery. His bank balance will be short by approximately £19,000 this week (our offer). The irony of 'grab it while you can' is probably alive and well in the Ferguson household this morning.

No one in the house today, had to take the 196 inch TV back and cancel the Evokes (*3)
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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #722 on: February 02, 2020, 01:21:24 PM »
The seemingly inconvenient truth for many posting on this thread is that it really is part of the argument. He got his break, he got his contract offer and he turned it down. And for now at least his and his agent's gamble has blown up in theirs and our faces.

I often hear about how short players careers are and how they may only be one step away from a threatening injury. Grab the money while you can and run instead of developing your game and future earning potential.

Nobody is a winner in the current situation. We have a player who will be understandably upset and facing potential surgery. His bank balance will be short by approximately £19,000 this week (our offer). The irony of 'grab it while you can' is probably alive and well in the Ferguson household this morning.

Well my point was that is it really the changing of guard that prevented Ferguson from getting a contract last summer or would you be able to point to a pattern with our youngsters and our transfer policies in general? It was more being a "priority" which our youth clearly aren't when it comes to first team matters and contracts etc and that's where the real frustration should be.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 01:25:44 PM by section5 »

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #723 on: February 02, 2020, 04:46:30 PM »
Shows how the mad money has created a monster, some of these agents are the scum of the earth

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Re: Nathan Ferguson
« Reply #724 on: February 02, 2020, 06:43:23 PM »
The club has to look at what is in the interests of WBA. If Ferguson wants to leave, come what may, we will have to get used to the idea, and try to get the maximum fee for him.
If, he did show willingness to think again and sign a new contract, then I think we should applaud it, because he is a very promising full back.  Of course his decision may well be decided by how other players in the dressing room treat him, or maybe reactions from the fans. If that works negatively, then we just have to get the maximum fee we can get, which due to the contract situation, probably won't be very much.
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