[Jeremy Roland Peace]

Someone needs to bang him on the head then 

just don't let the drum in, we don't need it

[ashdoy]

I hate Lai but correct me if im wrong...

he borrowed £7m

made us a profit

now paying himself £7m as a dividend so in affect he is above board and not taking anything?

Or have I totally misunderstood...

[gazberg]

I hate Lai but correct me if im wrong...

he borrowed £7m

made us a profit

now paying himself £7m as a dividend so in affect he is above board and not taking anything?

Or have I totally misunderstood...

He's going to skimp and save on the club, hold back money, sell players etc until the club shows enough profit he can use it to pay it back from the clubs money rather than his own personal money.


We made 100k in the PL season so he needs another 6.9m

[hardtobeat]

I hate Lai but correct me if im wrong...

he borrowed £7m

made us a profit

now paying himself £7m as a dividend so in affect he is above board and not taking anything?

Or have I totally misunderstood...

This is my understanding . He is not taking his dividend but leaving it in/for the club as payment for the loan

[johnny Cash]

This is my understanding . He is not taking his dividend but leaving it in/for the club as payment for the loan

It still amounts to the club losing millions in a way that only two other clubs in England have seen in the past 20 years (Man Utd and Swansea according to Kieran Maquire).

[smethwickw]

I hate Lai but correct me if im wrong...

he borrowed £7m

made us a profit

now paying himself £7m as a dividend so in affect he is above board and not taking anything?

Or have I totally misunderstood...

He shouldn't be loaning money or taking a dividend with the position the club currently finds itself in.

[darbolina]

From a 'layman's' perspective, it seems Lai borrowed money from the club and the club is now paying his debt back from it's own earnings/ profits? Seems legal of course but seems a simple way for Lai to legally extract money from the club - not small amounts either.  I'd expect him to continue to do it too...........

Lai Out

[tambag]

From a 'layman's' perspective, it seems Lai borrowed money from the club and the club is now paying his debt back from it's own earnings/ profits? Seems legal of course but seems a simple way for Lai to legally extract money from the club - not small amounts either.  I'd expect him to continue to do it too...........

Lai Out

I agree he needs to go.

God knows what the next set of accounts will show for last season, did he take any of the MP money out ?

[gazberg]

I agree he needs to go.

God knows what the next set of accounts will show for last season, did he take any of the MP money out ?

I strongly believe, as i did with the PL season when everyone said we would lose millions and millions, that we will end up in the black when last seasons accounts come out next year. They have too for his plan to work.  He's making ongoing profit by limitiing our budget each season.

[mulliganstired]

I strongly believe, as i did with the PL season when everyone said we would lose millions and millions, that we will end up in the black when last seasons accounts come out next year. They have too for his plan to work.  He's making ongoing profit by limitiing our budget each season.

This is exacty what is happening.  Plain as the nose on your face.  Unless we fluke a promotion soon we are championship at best for the forseeable.

[Barrington]

He's doing what many a poor business or businessperson does when they've run out of actual ideas or talent. They just cut the staff budget until their profits look more healthy. Then reward themselves with bonuses (dividends) for performing so well financially.

[baggiejohn]

You can pay a dividend out of retained earnings so there is no need for him to have to do this - the profit generated does not have to be in the same year.

From a very quick glance at the accounts, there is enough in the brought forward kitty to do this. Paying a dividend would just then become an accounting exercise which would repay the loan back - the only cash that then needs to come out of the business would be the portion payable to the minority shareholders.

Can you point us to this in the accounts please? (The page will do) My understanding is we haven't made a profit for a very long time.

[gazberg]

This is exacty what is happening.  Plain as the nose on your face.  Unless we fluke a promotion soon we are championship at best for the forseeable.

Feels like he's knocking a few million quid out of our true budget for the season, each season, saying we can't afford what we need until he recoups it back. It's not rocket science but it is bad news for us.


When i think back to that article where they said the total 2 year parachute payments for WBA would be budgeted/split over 3 years. He can squeeze out a few million here and there over 3 years rather than the lot over 2 when it would be more noticeable possibly?

[gazberg]

He's doing what many a poor business or businessperson does when they've run out of actual ideas or talent. They just cut the staff budget until their profits look more healthy. Then reward themselves with bonuses (dividends) for performing so well financially.

This is it in short. Cut so many costs, that are not needed, until the books are black and he doesn't owe us a penny.

What league we will be in by then who knows.

[bidbaggie]

Can you point us to this in the accounts please? (The page will do) My understanding is we haven't made a profit for a very long time.

Of course, it is the profit and loss account carried forward on the Football Club Accounts (pg 14 - £11m) and there is also WBA group ltd (pg 15 - £24m)

[Mo]

I agree he needs to go.

God knows what the next set of accounts will show for last season, did he take any of the MP money out ?

The words that have been used to me to describe our situation are ‘financial basket case ‘ .

[liverbaggie]

As I understand it he can take a salary and a dividend
He'll pay tax on both but if he's got any brains he'll be taking a dividend which accrues less tax
That's how it was in my day, don't know what the rules are nowadays on this

[baggiejohn]

Of course, it is the profit and loss account carried forward on the Football Club Accounts (pg 14 - £11m) and there is also WBA group ltd (pg 15 - £24m)

Yes, I've got that now.

It looks as though there is a provision in the football club accounts of around £13 million to pay future creditor commitments. This looks as though it's not been included in Group accounts.

So, in reality, there's about £11 million in retained earnings, have I understood that correctly?

[Baggies]

I'd need somebody who understands it to explain it all, but it doesn't help look fishy when we spread the parachute  payments over 3 seasons and sold players without bringing them in at the tail end of the window. All looks like money being saved to allow for a dividend.

The club is in effect being asset stripped isn't it? I don't really get the difference, maybe somebody can give me a different take but to a lay man that's how it looks.

[gazberg]

I'd need somebody who understands it to explain it all, but it doesn't help look fishy when we spread the parachute  payments over 3 seasons and sold players without bringing them in at the tail end of the window. All looks like money being saved to allow for a dividend.

The club is in effect being asset stripped isn't it? I don't really get the difference, maybe somebody can give me a different take but to a lay man that's how it looks.

He's not directly stripping the club but he's cutting the clubs cloth harsher than needed to make his dividend, it's all bad news whichever way you dice it.

[WBArgo]

I'd need somebody who understands it to explain it all, but it doesn't help look fishy when we spread the parachute  payments over 3 seasons and sold players without bringing them in at the tail end of the window. All looks like money being saved to allow for a dividend.

The club is in effect being asset stripped isn't it? I don't really get the difference, maybe somebody can give me a different take but to a lay man that's how it looks.

Technically not asset stripping, but taking money out of the club without investing much? Yes, he is doing that which is perfectly legal.

At this rate we will end up like Swansea who did similar (or worse). The issue with Lai's strategy is that when the parachute money goes, he won't be able to take much money out as we won't have any. Imagine 3-4 more windows of free's and loans. That will be what our team looks like which won't produce any money. It's a short term way for him to get some money from the club but as our quality declines he won't be able to do it. Not that that helps the club of course.

[johnny Cash]

I'd need somebody who understands it to explain it all, but it doesn't help look fishy when we spread the parachute  payments over 3 seasons and sold players without bringing them in at the tail end of the window. All looks like money being saved to allow for a dividend.

The club is in effect being asset stripped isn't it? I don't really get the difference, maybe somebody can give me a different take but to a lay man that's how it looks.

You are right, the result is no different to asset stripping even if technically it’s not asset stripping. Buying an asset to sell would be an unnecessary extra step.

[Dan]

Technically not asset stripping, but taking money out of the club without investing much? Yes, he is doing that which is perfectly legal.

At this rate we will end up like Swansea who did similar (or worse). The issue with Lai's strategy is that when the parachute money goes, he won't be able to take much money out as we won't have any. Imagine 3-4 more windows of free's and loans. That will be what our team looks like which won't produce any money. It's a short term way for him to get some money from the club but as our quality declines he won't be able to do it. Not that that helps the club of course.

Swansea at least asset stripped alongside having an intelligent and modern infrastructure supporting the club.

We seem to be content to do the same but by managing the club straight out the 90's. Much worse implications for us unless we can make the play offs and get promoted. Even then I suspect he'll try and bank the TV money.

[skyclad99]

I'd need somebody who understands it to explain it all, but it doesn't help look fishy when we spread the parachute  payments over 3 seasons and sold players without bringing them in at the tail end of the window. All looks like money being saved to allow for a dividend.

The club is in effect being asset stripped isn't it? I don't really get the difference, maybe somebody can give me a different take but to a lay man that's how it looks.

Not sure it is asset stripping as such. The definition of asset stripping

the practice of taking over a company in financial difficulties and selling each of its assets separately at a profit without regard for the company's future.

We certainly aren’t in financial difficulty, more like he is the one with financial issues so at this point I would see it more like he is ‘borrowing’ any surplus cash we have for his own purposes in whatever way he or the club dresses it up to be. Is it a loan or will it be consolidated as a dividend? Who knows?

[WBArgo]

Swansea at least asset stripped alongside having an intelligent and modern infrastructure supporting the club.

We seem to be content to do the same but by managing the club straight out the 90's. Much worse implications for us unless we can make the play offs and get promoted. Even then I suspect he'll try and bank the TV money.

Well with Swansea they've certainly go backwards in terms of their 'strategy' and I think we'll do the same. I don't think their modern infrastructure is too relevant either if you've got an owner who doesn't invest. Ultimately, you'll go backwards regardless.

The one thing I'd say about Lai is that he could have banked more money if needed. He could have sold Johnstone last year for £5-10 million, perhaps done similar with Diangana and Grant. I've always maintained that his 'policies' aren't good but we're not at that point just yet where the real penny pinching begins. Regardless, the next few years will be bleak.