Poll

Will you be taking up your option of receiving the Covid vaccine.

Yes
90 (86.5%)
No
11 (10.6%)
Undecided
3 (2.9%)

Total Members Voted: 104

Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 1185026 times)

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costa blanca baggie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1125 on: April 14, 2020, 12:54:45 PM »
Donald stuck it on them and is right again.

He has done more for America compared to Obama who Is idolised

2 fingers up to the media
I’m guessing you’re a big fan of Fox News.
Humanity is a parade of fools, and I’m at the front of it...twirling the baton.

The Black Pearl

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1126 on: April 14, 2020, 12:57:13 PM »
Difficult to get into this discussion without it being political, but undoubtedly there will be lessons learned.
Don't expect too much though, It will be the "we don't buy snow ploughs for one harsh winter in 50 argument"

And that is a valid argument, much as we would all like gold plated, near perfect public public services, every competent government of any colour will have limits placed by available budget,.
I would like to drive a Range Rover Vogue, but I drive a 14 year old Nissan Pathfinder, does almost the same job, but costs much less.
Baggie in Southampton

baggiejohn

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1127 on: April 14, 2020, 01:22:24 PM »
And that is a valid argument, much as we would all like gold plated, near perfect public public services, every competent government of any colour will have limits placed by available budget,.
I would like to drive a Range Rover Vogue, but I drive a 14 year old Nissan Pathfinder, does almost the same job, but costs much less.

As I said, it's difficult to get into the discussion without getting political, but...........

Agree that the stockpiling for an event that may or may not happen is not a great idea, but I think this pandemic has caught the government out.
There doesn't appear to been a lot of "what if" thinking going on, & almost certainly other issues have taken a front seat over the last 4 years.


This the latest UK disaster plan I can find (p33/34 refers to infectious diseases).

This was published in 2017

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/644968/UK_National_Risk_Register_2017.pdf
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 01:32:25 PM by baggiejohn »
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

boinging_along

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1128 on: April 14, 2020, 01:48:24 PM »
I think it's reasonable to not expect the government to have stockpiled ventilators just in case we need them to be fair.  I think stockpiling PPE is another thing though.  We might not be able to stockpile enough but the government could source it and then distribute as needed. 

Failing that we should have plans in place, already, as to what to do if we *do* need a massive amount of PPE quickly or if we do have such a pandemic that means the economy takes a beating and we all can't go and do our jobs.

That's just planning, and something we should have done.

gazberg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1129 on: April 14, 2020, 01:57:13 PM »
A very fair comment Boinging along.

It's impossible to stockpile everything for once in a lifetime events but to have no PPE in reserve is just urine poor planning.

The company i work for keep ZERO PPE in stock as policy. Absolutely ridiculous. If we need something it has to be ordered. I've been working with torn gloves for over a month now due to this idiocy. When asked where are my new gloves everyday they say they can't get any because of Coronavirus virus to which i replied which is why exactly essential PPE should be stocked not ordered.

MarkW

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1130 on: April 14, 2020, 03:07:33 PM »
The government had a state of the art epidemiological model a couple of years ago, the results of which are essentially the plan the government was following in the early stages of the outbreak. This would see what the government would consider an "acceptable" lost of life, while keeping reasonable economic and societal stability. However, the model was built on the assumption the next pandemic would be a more fatal version of season flu (the linked pdf in an above post talks about avian and swine flu).

Covid-19 is not only more fatal, but more virulent - it infects far more people for every original carrier. This means that it spread through the country much quicker, and left the government playing catch up.

I would want to know why, when the data coming out of Iran, Italy and China suggested this was the case, the government persevered with their original plan. This has likely cost lives.

I think in times of disruption, that is when you need to hold a government to account the most, as it's very easy to expand government oversight unnecessarily in the name of an emergency
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gazberg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1131 on: April 14, 2020, 03:42:54 PM »
778 today a slight increase from yesterday. Total 12,107. RIP.

kc56wba

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1132 on: April 14, 2020, 04:49:21 PM »
Covid 19 is running wild in care homes, where is the help for them. 
IT'S MORE THAN A CLUB, IT'S OUR CULTURE

TheJacko2000

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1133 on: April 14, 2020, 04:51:50 PM »
Covid 19 is running wild in care homes, where is the help for them.


CQC oversee them, but the vast majority are run by private companies who should have their own disaster plans.
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The Black Pearl

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1134 on: April 14, 2020, 05:17:18 PM »

CQC oversee them, but the vast majority are run by private companies who should have their own disaster plans.

That is correct, the government is there to support them, but blaming the government for their health failings is incorrect, some care homes have done it very well, some haven't.
Older people were always going to die as a result of this, it was a known consequence, we also have the second oldest population in Europe.
Baggie in Southampton

kc56wba

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1135 on: April 14, 2020, 05:58:45 PM »
That is correct, the government is there to support them, but blaming the government for their health failings is incorrect, some care homes have done it very well, some haven't.
Older people were always going to die as a result of this, it was a known consequence, we also have the second oldest population in Europe.

 Vulnerable care home residents ‘abandoned like lambs to the slaughter’ claims ex minister after 92 outbreaks in a day.

It comes after care home bosses claimed health chiefs are playing Russian roulette with old people’s lives because of a lack of testing.

These words from ex Tory minster.
IT'S MORE THAN A CLUB, IT'S OUR CULTURE

The Black Pearl

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1136 on: April 14, 2020, 06:23:12 PM »
Almost everyone is doing their best in an impossibly difficult situation, I have volunteered my own services, but there are a million people who receive care in care homes or their own home. The logistics in providing PPE for that support system when it did not exist at all 5 weeks ago is mind boggling.
Things will not be perfect Kev, all we can expect is that people do their best.
Baggie in Southampton

TheJacko2000

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1137 on: April 14, 2020, 06:24:50 PM »
A very assured performance from Sunak again. More impressed every time I see him.
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liverbaggie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1138 on: April 14, 2020, 07:06:35 PM »
Always thought he's a future PM

Albionic

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1139 on: April 14, 2020, 07:10:12 PM »
A very assured performance from Sunak again. More impressed every time I see him.

The public speaking coaches at Eton have proved their worth.
the road to the summit has dips, keep the faith when navigating those dips !!
Albion Family !!!

lewisant

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1140 on: April 14, 2020, 07:12:31 PM »
Vulnerable care home residents ‘abandoned like lambs to the slaughter’ claims ex minister after 92 outbreaks in a day.

It comes after care home bosses claimed health chiefs are playing Russian roulette with old people’s lives because of a lack of testing.

These words from ex Tory minster.

All care homes should have a stock of basic PPE and infection control policies which sort of cover basic reactions to what this is however masks etc and the reaction to COVID 19 has been difficult and (I work with young people with autism care) it must be so difficult in elderly care when there is a breakout.

CQC have been great with advice and policies but I imagine it has been very very difficult running large, elderly homes.
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baggiejohn

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If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

zippyandbungle

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1142 on: April 14, 2020, 07:45:23 PM »
Difficult to get into this discussion without it being political, but undoubtedly there will be lessons learned.
Don't expect too much though, It will be the "we don't buy snow ploughs for one harsh winter in 50 argument"
There will be many views on this crisis, many will use it for political gain, many good people will be taken and many things will change forever.
I’m not particularly politically minded , I have my opinions on things and I know they won’t please all...but I always try and listen to an alternative view too.

There can be no doubt , that if we had more beds, more nurses etc , that we would be better prepared, I do worry that people think that there  is any argument, I also worry that people think there is a big pot of self replenishing money that the government have (irrespective of party) they just don’t...

Do you know what really boils my pi55 during all this though .
Each year this country has to spend in excess of 150 billion on anti terrorism
I don’t think it’s political to say that that money could be better used and that scumbags that try to kill innocent people drain our ability to look after our people...
They more than any Tory/labour/liberal should be dealt with with appropriate force .
If youre going to get told off, get told off for doing something not for doing nothing..

liverbaggie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1143 on: April 14, 2020, 08:46:49 PM »
You would think that it would be part of basics to running a care home and an order by the cqc that all homes must have ppe in stock for all staff plus extra just in case.
Before anyone can set up as a care home and checked in some sort of record book every say 3 months as a duty of care wouldn't you?

mulliganstired

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1144 on: April 14, 2020, 08:51:44 PM »
You would think that it would be part of basics to running a care home and an order by the cqc that all homes must have ppe in stock for all staff plus extra just in case.
Before anyone can set up as a care home and checked in some sort of record book every say 3 months as a duty of care wouldn't you?
It would help make sure they were run properly if they were not private profit making organisations; we have to bite the financial bullet and pay more tax to run them.  In my opinion.

kc56wba

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1145 on: April 14, 2020, 09:52:27 PM »
It would help make sure they were run properly if they were not private profit making organisations; we have to bite the financial bullet and pay more tax to run them.  In my opinion.

We are going to pay more Tax there is no doubt about that, well those of us who do pay their taxes will.
IT'S MORE THAN A CLUB, IT'S OUR CULTURE

liverbaggie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1146 on: April 14, 2020, 10:25:23 PM »
I will gladly pay a tax increase as long as it goes specifically and only to look after and care for elderly people she need it ,whether they have there own home or not.
So they do not have to sell their house to fund their own care!

Droitwich Baggie

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1147 on: April 14, 2020, 11:15:46 PM »
I will gladly pay a tax increase as long as it goes specifically and only to look after and care for elderly people she need it ,whether they have there own home or not.
So they do not have to sell their house to fund their own care!
That sounds nice, but practicalities come in.
My sister is in a care home. She has learning difficulties and severe dementia.
Our mother left the house to her to pay for her care.
OK... some will Pi$$ it up the wall, I am still in the belief, that if you can pay for things, surely you should contribute to your care. (Yeah, I have missed out on the money... So what? My sister/family come first). btw.. I am a 55% right winger.

The Black Pearl

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1148 on: April 15, 2020, 05:49:25 AM »
Trump blames World Health Organisation also criticised by Taiwan for not warning of human to human transition earlier.
https://www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6a68
Baggie in Southampton

Foster#1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #1149 on: April 15, 2020, 06:17:45 AM »
Donald Trump freezes ALL U.S. funding for World Health Organization accusing it of 'accelerating the pandemic' by opposing his partial ban on travel from China and 'putting political correctness above lifesaving

Well Done trump. Taking the lead role. Like I said last week on here can't trust WHO