[Astle1968]

added to the thread above (which is really good imho) that rondon has been playing under a manager that wasnt interested in attacking. So in terms of chances created for him, he must have had less. Perhaps the amount of possession for the team of the players verses the possession had by us (in our opponent's half) would make for interesting reading.

Agreed, you can break that down dozens more ways. For example I'd add in our style of play under Pulis massively hampered Rondon. Most of Deeneys goals have been penalties so does his 12 mean more than Rondons 11 in reality? King and Defoe have both scored more but have both done very little this season. But then on he other side Rondon has been the 1st choice number 9 for us where others have been bit part players or played more of the bench. However as a basic overall comparison it should serve to show some worth to the numbers.

I think the point about back up/other options is the key one. HRK just simply isn't good enough and Rodriguez so far has been borderline at absolute best. It's why I mention the goals from Rodriguez, Phillips, Chadli etc being just as important. Silly as it sounds but I think if we could bring in another CF with Rondons ability but maybe with a different style it would automatically improve us.

[alex1]

Agreed, you can break that down dozens more ways. For example I'd add in our style of play under Pulis massively hampered Rondon. Most of Deeneys goals have been penalties so does his 12 mean more than Rondons 11 in reality? King and Defoe have both scored more but have both done very little this season. But then on he other side Rondon has been the 1st choice number 9 for us where others have been bit part players or played more of the bench. However as a basic overall comparison it should serve to show some worth to the numbers.

I think the point about back up/other options is the key one. HRK just simply isn't good enough and Rodriguez so far has been borderline at absolute best. It's why I mention the goals from Rodriguez, Phillips, Chadli etc being just as important. Silly as it sounds but I think if we could bring in another CF with Rondons ability but maybe with a different style it would automatically improve us.

Well done for the goalscorers analysis. You've done a fair amount of number crunching there. I've been looking at German Bundesliga scorers which is almost similar standard to the Premier League, and you'll find some names, not at so-called top clubs, with very respectable conversion rates. 
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/german-bundesliga/top-scorers

Players like Petersen at Freiburg, Finnbogason and Gregoritsch both at Augsburg, Volland at Leverkusen. I think any of the above would offer quality in their all round game as well as a major boost to our goalscoring conversion rate. 
Also, their shots on target make interesting reading. Nearly all 50% plus.
Not sure what their transfer sums would be, but you'd expect them to be slightly lower than for other Premier League strikers.

[Albionic]

I'm sorry that comparison isn't fair. Most those teams have other striking options unlike us, i.e. Rondon or Austin = Austin

Austin is almost permanently injured which is of no use to anyone, whereas Rondon .....
Put Austin into our squad in place of rondon and HRK would have to play week in / week out, that would go well wouldn't it ?

[Astle1968]

Well done for the goalscorers analysis. You've done a fair amount of number crunching there. I've been looking at German Bundesliga scorers which is almost similar standard to the Premier League, and you'll find some names, not at so-called top clubs, with very respectable conversion rates. 
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/german-bundesliga/top-scorers

Players like Petersen at Freiburg, Finnbogason and Gregoritsch both at Augsburg, Volland at Leverkusen. I think any of the above would offer quality in their all round game as well as a major boost to our goalscoring conversion rate. 
Also, their shots on target make interesting reading. Nearly all 50% plus.
Not sure what their transfer sums would be, but you'd expect them to be slightly lower than for other Premier League strikers.

For the record I completely agree we need to be looking abroad for most of our signings, especially a CF. The point is that the vast majority of us would have been happy if we signed the likes of Musa, Slimani, Gabbiadini, Mitrovic, Hernandez in the last 18 months and they have all been a failure to some degree and not one if them is 1st choice for their club. Would anyone of them really be a huge upgrade on Rondon?

If/when we sign a new CF the chances are he won't be much better than Rondon and could well turn out to be worse. Again, that doesn't mean we don't try but just that in comparison to most of his peers Rondon is doing 'ok'.

For example I was really disappointed when we didn't sign Slimani but he looked absolute dreadful against Fleetwood in the week and is apparently available for loan. I thought Musa would have been a good signing on loan at the start of the season and he's barely a footballer these days. Of course any of the names you mention could come in and score 20 goals for a club but history suggests it's far more likely they will be the next Slimani, Rondon, Gabbiadini etc.

[caravanc58]

added to the thread above (which is really good imho) that rondon has been playing under a manager that wasnt interested in attacking. So in terms of chances created for him, he must have had less. Perhaps the amount of possession for the team of the players verses the possession had by us (in our opponent's half) would make for interesting reading.

Brown Ideye scored 23 goals in 43 matches after he left us, not sure how good the top Greek league is but he was scoring in the champions league.
I would expect an uplift in goals from our forwards like you say just because we play a more attacking game than under the previous manager.

[alex1]

For the record I completely agree we need to be looking abroad for most of our signings, especially a CF. The point is that the vast majority of us would have been happy if we signed the likes of Musa, Slimani, Gabbiadini, Mitrovic, Hernandez in the last 18 months and they have all been a failure to some degree and not one if them is 1st choice for their club. Would anyone of them really be a huge upgrade on Rondon?

If/when we sign a new CF the chances are he won't be much better than Rondon and could well turn out to be worse. Again, that doesn't mean we don't try but just that in comparison to most of his peers Rondon is doing 'ok'.

For example I was really disappointed when we didn't sign Slimani but he looked absolute dreadful against Fleetwood in the week and is apparently available for loan. I thought Musa would have been a good signing on loan at the start of the season and he's barely a footballer these days. Of course any of the names you mention could come in and score 20 goals for a club but history suggests it's far more likely they will be the next Slimani, Rondon, Gabbiadini etc.

I know what you're saying when you say there is no absolute guarentee about any of the  strikers I mentioned. I think though that if we restrict ourselves to just the Premier League, you are probably looking at an extra 25% or so premium on their value, which is going to put most outside our budget. What I'm saying is that if you have proper scouting in the other main leagues you can save yourself a helluva lot of money further  down the line. If we had been in for Arnoutovic, the Korean guy at Spurs, Firmino, Mhyktarian, Sigurdsson when they were with German clubs, we'd be laughing now. Now they are out of our range. 
Bringing it back to Rondon (before the Moderator's mention it , at the least, he  needs more competition than JayRod and HRK, although I think JRod is a good player. One way or another, scoring more goals is an absolute priority.

[TheJacko2000]

We're looking at the problem wrong, Rondon isn't it, the other 2 are. We need a signing to compliment Rondon not to replace him.

[zippyandbungle]

We're looking at the problem wrong, Rondon isn't it, the other 2 are. We need a signing to compliment Rondon not to replace him.

That's twice in a month 😲😲😲😲

[Albionic]

We're looking at the problem wrong, Rondon isn't it, the other 2 are. We need a signing to compliment Rondon not to replace him.

I happen to agree with this, put Defoe alongside Salomon and the goals would flow.
On the subject of Slimani et al looking rubbish at the moment, I would temper that with them not playing on a regular basis, its very hard to look good when you only play for a few minutes here or there, or the odd cup game. Leicester have Vardey / Mahrez partnership and all their other players are of a different style and will not "slot in" readily.

[ashdoy]

We're looking at the problem wrong, Rondon isn't it, the other 2 are. We need a signing to compliment Rondon not to replace him.

Bang on.

Rondon with Pete/Lukaku/Long would have been some front line.

Rondon with HRK & JRod makes it look very poor.

Rondon with a mix of Defoe, Sturridge, Auston, Gray, Deeney etc wouldnt look too bad.

[Hull Baggie]

We're looking at the problem wrong, Rondon isn't it, the other 2 are. We need a signing to compliment Rondon not to replace him.

Rondon isn't all of the problem , as you rightly say the other 2 strikers have to share in the burden but Rondon most definitely is part of the problem.

[baggie53]

Bang on.

Rondon with Pete/Lukaku/Long would have been some front line.

Rondon with HRK & JRod makes it look very poor.

Rondon with a mix of Defoe, Sturridge, Auston, Gray, Deeney etc wouldnt look too bad.

I agree about Pete and Lukaku, but I have never understood why Long is held in such high esteem
Willing runner but never has been and never will be a regular goalscorer

[baggie82]

I agree about Pete and Lukaku, but I have never understood why Long is held in such high esteem
Willing runner but never has been and never will be a regular goalscorer

Spot on. Long isn't a footballer, just a hard working athlete who is quick. No football brain or goal scoring instinct in him. His scoring stats are poor and his recent long running drought without scoring for Southampton was an embarrassment by any standard. Shane Long's inability to score from a few yards out was one of the main reasons Clarke lost his job. Cardiff away I think it was when Long bottled it; although it happened week in and week out.

Pete on the other hand was outstanding, never understood why Roy annoyed him by converting him to a out-in winger, when he loved playing on the shoulder up top and was deadly on the shoulder of the last defender (still remember his debut and winner against Sunderland fondly).

[NathWBA]

I agree about Pete and Lukaku, but I have never understood why Long is held in such high esteem
Willing runner but never has been and never will be a regular goalscorer

totally agree, never understood the the love for Long, only has pace, poor touch, poor finishing. Not only that but one of the worst divers in the game, even dived against us for hull and tried to justify it by saying he never claimed for the penalty.

As for Rondon, I rate him, deceptively quick, has scored goals everywhere he’s been but needs a decent strike partner.

[Droitwich Baggie]

totally agree, never understood the the love for Long, only has pace, poor touch, poor finishing. Not only that but one of the worst divers in the game, even dived against us for hull and tried to justify it by saying he never claimed for the penalty.

As for Rondon, I rate him, deceptively quick, has scored goals everywhere he’s been but needs a decent strike partner.

Yup. The King, often laid the ball off to Bomber.

[zippyandbungle]

totally agree, never understood the the love for Long, only has pace, poor touch, poor finishing. Not only that but one of the worst divers in the game, even dived against us for hull and tried to justify it by saying he never claimed for the penalty.

As for Rondon, I rate him, deceptively quick, has scored goals everywhere he’s been but needs a decent strike partner.

Totally disagree
Pace....loads and defenders hate it
Touch....very good, watch the two goals vs villa
Finishing....not bad, he does do a lot of donkey work for team mates..

In our current team WITH Rondon I think he'd be excellent

[baggie53]

Totally disagree
Pace....loads and defenders hate it
Touch....very good, watch the two goals vs villa
Finishing....not bad, he does do a lot of donkey work for team mates..

In our current team WITH Rondon I think he'd be excellent

Yes great goals against the Villa, but almost the whole ground were dumbstruck by the way he controlled the ball - so out of character

[ashdoy]

When I pointed out Long i wasnt trying to state how good he was, was more pointing to the fact that if Rondon had strike partners like the Pete/Lukaku/Long/Fortune combination then we would see much more from him.

[zippyandbungle]

When I pointed out Long i wasnt trying to state how good he was, was more pointing to the fact that if Rondon had strike partners like the Pete/Lukaku/Long/Fortune combination then we would see much more from him.

Agree, this is why I said earlier in the thread it's not about Rondon, it's the strike options
When we had lukaku, long Pete etc, we had options for every event/team...now if Solomon doesn't have a good day we may has well throw myhill up top...
This is the worst set of strike options I can remember

[ashdoy]

Agree, this is why I said earlier in the thread it's not about Rondon, it's the strike options
When we had lukaku, long Pete etc, we had options for every event/team...now if Solomon doesn't have a good day we may has well throw myhill up top...
This is the worst set of strike options I can remember

I would also argue that for the type of system we play and the role we ask of Rondon he isn’t helped by the wingers/midfielders.

None of them contribute enough in terms of goals.

Rather than a midfield creating a sackful for Rondon, or Rondon creating chances for a goal scoring midfield we have a midfield who don’t create chances and don’t get forward enough to score themselves.

[NathWBA]

Totally disagree
Pace....loads and defenders hate it
Touch....very good, watch the two goals vs villa
Finishing....not bad, he does do a lot of donkey work for team mates..

In our current team WITH Rondon I think he'd be excellent

thing is he didnt just have those two touches against the villa, those two touches don’t define a player, the vast majority of his touches were heavy which has been a problem throughout his entire career. As for his finishing you only need to look at his recent drought for club and country.

As for a strike partner Rondon id sooner try and take gabbiadini

[baggie96]

I think we need to get chadli behind rondon, no coincidence that he scored all his goals last season when chadli was with him. Second half of the season when chadli was shunted to a left midfield (left back) role he didn't score.

[ashdoy]

Since he came, does anybody know who our top scorers are?

Is Rondon on 20 goals? Not sure who’s second but won’t be many will it?

[Hunnington Baggie]

Since he came, does anybody know who our top scorers are?

Is Rondon on 20 goals? Not sure who’s second but won’t be many will it?

In the league?

Rondon’s on 20. Dawson and Morrison are next I think on 9.

[ashdoy]

Absolutely superb today.

And such a nice bloke, felt for him after the injury.