[wba13]

as you know i`m a big fan but today he looked lost  needs one to go in of his backside to get his confidence up

[TheJacko2000]

What Rondon does isn't just running around a lot... Anyone that knows my posting style knows I hate the idea of hero worship for effort over ability (Shane Long - a player who truly only runs around a lot). He played a sumptuous pass in to Chadli today very late on in the game after breaking two tackles, He would have also had two superb assists if James McClean had a modicum of composure in front of goal so his quality is there for all to see if people are willing to look; in front of goal he's in a slump but his career record is around 1 in 3, so it'll come again.


There were two clear moments when he took a particularly heavy touch allowing the defender in, one of these when Livermore tried to put him through, I feel these are being magnified on this forum. As to this insistence on banging on about Opta stats and aerial duels, who cares if he wins any flick ons? He's the furthest player forward anyway, get the stat where it says how many times he holds off 2 or even 3 defenders and lays the ball off and we'll talk.

[Black Country Pride]

What Rondon does isn't just running around a lot... Anyone that knows my posting style knows I hate the idea of hero worship for effort over ability (Shane Long - a player who truly only runs around a lot). He played a sumptuous pass in to Chadli today very late on in the game after breaking two tackles, He would have also had two superb assists if James McClean had a modicum of composure in front of goal so his quality is there for all to see if people are willing to look; in front of goal he's in a slump but his career record is around 1 in 3, so it'll come again.


There were two clear moments when he took a particularly heavy touch allowing the defender in, one of these when Livermore tried to put him through, I feel these are being magnified on this forum. As to this insistence on banging on about Opta stats and aerial duels, who cares if he wins any flick ons? He's the furthest player forward anyway, get the stat where it says how many times he holds off 2 or even 3 defenders and lays the ball off and we'll talk.

Hear hear! We do need back up though.

[CL3MO]

What Rondon does isn't just running around a lot... Anyone that knows my posting style knows I hate the idea of hero worship for effort over ability (Shane Long - a player who truly only runs around a lot). He played a sumptuous pass in to Chadli today very late on in the game after breaking two tackles, He would have also had two superb assists if James McClean had a modicum of composure in front of goal so his quality is there for all to see if people are willing to look; in front of goal he's in a slump but his career record is around 1 in 3, so it'll come again.


There were two clear moments when he took a particularly heavy touch allowing the defender in, one of these when Livermore tried to put him through, I feel these are being magnified on this forum. As to this insistence on banging on about Opta stats and aerial duels, who cares if he wins any flick ons? He's the furthest player forward anyway, get the stat where it says how many times he holds off 2 or even 3 defenders and lays the ball off and we'll talk.

See, I feel that his few good moments are being magnified by yourself. We struggled to get out of our half in the second half and although there were many occasions on which we just pumped the ball aimlessly, when Rondon had the ball he continually lost it.

Despite this, you can see he is clearly drained of confidence.

[Droitwich Baggie]

He is also cream crackered at the end of the game.
He helps out in defence....Runs up to over the halfway line, and with our system he has to track back again because the hoof or the poor passing means that the opposition are attacking our goal.
Repeat that last sentence quite a few times. Again repeat.
Our midfield are so preoccupied by having to track back too, they cannot support him when he does finally get the ball (they are also cream crackered)....They have to run half the pitch just to get close enough.
He needs more help by the team playing further up the field.

[geoff]

See, I feel that his few good moments are being magnified by yourself. We struggled to get out of our half in the second half and although there were many occasions on which we just pumped the ball aimlessly, when Rondon had the ball he continually lost it.

Despite this, you can see he is clearly drained of confidence.

You seem to disregard everything he does & concentrate solely on his lack of goals & before you say "but thats why he's in the team" i think he's in the team because of his all around game & there is not a finisher at the club, neither is there one who has his all around game. He needs better service he has to many ball to his neck ( which he jumps up as to take them on his chest) how about some to his feet or better still a few balls behind the defenders .   

[ian66]

Not being a huge fan of Rondon I’d like to add my opinion.

I can’t deny his graft and strength he shows week in week out and I also don’t overlook the work he does off the ball dragging defenders about to open up space for his team mates. But for me his ball control lets him down big time and I never get too excited when his on a one on one through on goal, he just doesn’t seem to have the confidence that a good striker should have.

All the above said after the TP WM phone-in on Tuesday a comment TP made got me thinking. He mentioned that when he was a player he used to go to a coaching seminar every summer which was run by the top coaches in England at the time. Malcom Allison was one of the coaches mentioned and he was well ahead of his time regarding tactics. He then went on to say how they used to set these sessions up without using a centre forward. Probably as they could see defences were getting better and eventually your out and out striker would be no more. Even the laws of the game have changed the way your old fashioned striker can play.

Did anyone else hear him say that and do you think this is how Salomon is played in our set up?

[ashdoy]

Hear hear! We do need back up though.

Here Here again!

The guy gets so much unfair stick on this site.

Realistically, for £12m, who could we get who's better?

Nobody who albion could sign could do his job better IMO

[Adder]

Not being a huge fan of Rondon I’d like to add my opinion.

I can’t deny his graft and strength he shows week in week out and I also don’t overlook the work he does off the ball dragging defenders about to open up space for his team mates. But for me his ball control lets him down big time and I never get too excited when his on a one on one through on goal, he just doesn’t seem to have the confidence that a good striker should have.

All the above said after the TP WM phone-in on Tuesday a comment TP made got me thinking. He mentioned that when he was a player he used to go to a coaching seminar every summer which was run by the top coaches in England at the time. Malcom Allison was one of the coaches mentioned and he was well ahead of his time regarding tactics. He then went on to say how they used to set these sessions up without using a centre forward. Probably as they could see defences were getting better and eventually your out and out striker would be no more. Even the laws of the game have changed the way your old fashioned striker can play.

Did anyone else hear him say that and do you think this is how Salomon is played in our set up?

There's different views on what is an out and out striker. Is it the good in the air target man type or the quick goal scoring type...or a mix of the two. I know Rondon is a huge focal point for us...his mobility and strength must mean any centre back pairing will know they've been in a game after playing against him. He's not absolute top notch for skill or finishing but he's ideal for our team setup with Morrison, Chadli, Phillips, Brunt able to play around him.

[lewisant]

I didn't see any of the game yesterday other than MOTD so the debate here is really interesting. I've gotta say, MOTD can paint a picture but he looked involved in everything good that they showed.

Has he scored since his hat-trick? We do need better back up than Robson-Kanu or to to use him more as Rondon in general does so much every week and as Jacko points out, it's not only about goals and aerial duels he's a clever player and if some of our players were more composed he'd have a few more assists this year.

[baggiejohn]

MOTM for me as well today. People are judging him based on how many goals he scored and not on his overall contribution. His touch is nowhere near as bad as its made out.

Not normally, I'd agree, but he couldn't get anything to stick yesterday.

Have to say though, in his defence, the Hawthorns has a reputation for being a really difficult stadium to play in on a windy day.

[baggiebof]

Just intrigued to see your side of things - what do you think he did to be man of the match?

Only just come back to this and the debate has moved on, Jacko explained my views pretty well. He brought others into play, occupied the centre backs, was always a winning runner and but for some finishing frailties, could have had an assist. He also should have won us a penalty/free kick in the first half and a probable red card for the defender.

I brought a United supporting friend to the game yesterday and he was very impressed with him. He commented how well he does considering there is no one within 30 yards of him and he has to hold the ball for around 5 seconds before he has any support at times. I think perhaps we forget what a difficult role he plays.

To comment on the shouts for Livermore as man of the match, I thiught he played well too. However he is new and exciting; we haven't yet seen his faults and limitations but with Rondon we have. His limitations are well established: he doesn't have blistering pace, he's not the best player technically and isn't the best finisher but we can overlook a players positives when they've been here a while, like sometimes happens with Brunt and Morrison for example.

[halifax_baggie]

What Rondon does isn't just running around a lot... Anyone that knows my posting style knows I hate the idea of hero worship for effort over ability (Shane Long - a player who truly only runs around a lot). He played a sumptuous pass in to Chadli today very late on in the game after breaking two tackles, He would have also had two superb assists if James McClean had a modicum of composure in front of goal so his quality is there for all to see if people are willing to look; in front of goal he's in a slump but his career record is around 1 in 3, so it'll come again.


There were two clear moments when he took a particularly heavy touch allowing the defender in, one of these when Livermore tried to put him through, I feel these are being magnified on this forum. As to this insistence on banging on about Opta stats and aerial duels, who cares if he wins any flick ons? He's the furthest player forward anyway, get the stat where it says how many times he holds off 2 or even 3 defenders and lays the ball off and we'll talk.

Don't agree with you often but this is spot on

[Pie]

part of a team that is in our best run of form for a very long time. I'm not going to complain about that. Personally I love the bloke, as I've said before if he had better finishing and dribbling ability he would be playing for  a bigger team than us.

[Adder]

I agree with Jacko on the opta stats front re Rondon - he fights such a lone battle and is often outnumbered by defenders, the stats just don't reflect his importance to us at all. He can't just knock it 5 yards sideways or backwards to notch up a completed pass.

[SirTonyPulis]

What Rondon does isn't just running around a lot... Anyone that knows my posting style knows I hate the idea of hero worship for effort over ability (Shane Long - a player who truly only runs around a lot). He played a sumptuous pass in to Chadli today very late on in the game after breaking two tackles, He would have also had two superb assists if James McClean had a modicum of composure in front of goal so his quality is there for all to see if people are willing to look; in front of goal he's in a slump but his career record is around 1 in 3, so it'll come again.


There were two clear moments when he took a particularly heavy touch allowing the defender in, one of these when Livermore tried to put him through, I feel these are being magnified on this forum. As to this insistence on banging on about Opta stats and aerial duels, who cares if he wins any flick ons? He's the furthest player forward anyway, get the stat where it says how many times he holds off 2 or even 3 defenders and lays the ball off and we'll talk.

He did play two good balls to McClean but that was about all he did yesterday. Hes played more of his career in weaker leagues so hes goalscoring ratio looks better due to that. Rondon tends to mess up a lot of decent opportunities, not just yesterday but very often due to poor touches. Being able to hold of defenders is the least he should be able to do, especially with his physique as he doesnt offer much else. Poor in the air, ball rarely sticks to him, poor finisher etc. His movement is decent but running around a lot is something every striker should be able to do.

If we do want to finish in the top half of the table regulary and having a some decent cup runs then Rondon is the first player that needs to be replaced.

[wodenson46]

He did play two good balls to McClean but that was about all he did yesterday. Hes played more of his career in weaker leagues so hes goalscoring ratio looks better due to that. Rondon tends to mess up a lot of decent opportunities, not just yesterday but very often due to poor touches. Being able to hold of defenders is the least he should be able to do, especially with his physique as he doesnt offer much else. Poor in the air, ball rarely sticks to him, poor finisher etc. His movement is decent but running around a lot is something every striker should be able to do.

If we do want to finish in the top half of the table regulary and having a some decent cup runs then Rondon is the first player that needs to be replaced.

Speechless, was going to reply but this is such a load of nonsense i really can't be arsed

[TheBrom]

Speechless, was going to reply but this is such a load of nonsense so true i really can't be arsed

Fixed that for you

[HampshireBaggie]

Rondon is absolutely integral. Anyone who doesn't see the work he does for this team isn't looking properly. He is having a rough patch in front of goal at the moment but his all round play hasn't dropped at all.

And the mental pressure on him when there is no worthwhile back up must take its toll on him as well. He single handily leads the front line and there is no one else to relieve that mental or physical pressure.

[Hull Baggie]

Appreciate this all round play but he needs to start scoring more.
 I don't buy this if he scored more he wouldn't be playing for Albion argument. I'm not expecting him to get 20+ goals a season but he has only scored in 5 league games this season. 5 out of 26.
Is it unreasonable for us to expect our main striker to get 12-15 goals a season? Shouldn't that be the rate for a top 10 quality striker? I know there are 12 games left but I'd be gobsmacked if he gets into double figures.

I really hope he makes me eat my words by scoring 3 or more in our remaining games.

As I say I do appreciate his hard work but surely he was bought to score goals as he has a 1 in 3 goal rate. It's not as if his misses often make the keeper make a save either they are very often wayward lashes (often it seems from frustration).

We need at the very least 1 new striker in the Summer but not someone similar in style to Rondon but someone more in the style of Odemwingie.

[TheBrom]

Appreciate this all round play but he needs to start scoring more.
 I don't buy this if he scored more he wouldn't be playing for Albion argument. I'm not expecting him to get 20+ goals a season but he has only scored in 5 league games this season. 5 out of 26.
Is it unreasonable for us to expect our main striker to get 12-15 goals a season? Shouldn't that be the rate for a top 10 quality striker? I know there are 12 games left but I'd be gobsmacked if he gets into double figures.

I really hope he makes me eat my words by scoring 3 or more in our remaining games.

As I say I do appreciate his hard work but surely he was bought to score goals as he has a 1 in 3 goal rate. It's not as if his misses often make the keeper make a save either they are very often wayward lashes (often it seems from frustration).

We need at the very least 1 new striker in the Summer but not someone similar in style to Rondon but someone more in the style of Odemwingie.

Agree with this, the stats I posted in the goals from everywhere thread last week have changed with this week's matches. With the two defenders scoring for us and King scoring for Bournemouth, we've now got the least percentage of goals scored by our striker out of everyone in the league.

I know everyone will say he works and pulls players out of positions, but I feel he needs to improve his hold up play, first touch and finishing to really help us kick on. Those saying he had a good game yesterday, he clearly knew he hadn't as did most of the fans sitting around me; he was right down the tunnel as soon as the whistle went.

[wba13]

Rondon helped make the first goal / his goals winner v palace scored and made one against spam equalised against Stoke scored v Burnley and hatrick v Swans  that means when RONDON scores we havn`t lost and take away some of his goals and we would be seven points worse of and back in the pack Just lay off him he does a great job for our team

[Adder]

Does it actually matter that much that he's not scoring if the team is ? He plays a big role in the team. If he was a penalty box striker who does nowt else then it's fair enough to grumble but we are scoring more goals as a team with him as a fulcrum of the attack.

[BoingFlyer]

When was a clear cut chance created for Rondon by the midfield or full backs sticking crosses in that he should of scored? I'm struggling to think of any from the last game. There was a couple of chances played to his feet in the middle of their half but they were not even half chances. Until he starts missing those clear cut chances which we don't even create it's unfair to lay blame at his door when he does not score.

[wba13]

to true adder