Author Topic: Peace makes new offer for shares.  (Read 8425 times)

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labaggies

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Peace makes new offer for shares.
« on: September 29, 2011, 08:33:14 AM »
http://www.newsnow.co.uk/A/522683192?-11200

If he spent more time looking after the club, than himself, things would be a lot better....
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 11:30:00 AM by RowleyBaggie2 »
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j2burnz

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Re: The Greedy Accountant is at it again
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2011, 08:37:50 AM »
Hmmm, this old chestnut

Whats exactly wrong at the minute that Peace can do a lot about? Really sicl of these threads I am. By the way , it does state thats its an offer for more shares which is not compulsory

Quakes Fan

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Re: The Greedy Accountant is at it again
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2011, 08:45:40 AM »
This hardly qualifies as looting the club.

rubyruby

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Re: The Greedy Accountant is at it again
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2011, 08:52:59 AM »
Hmmm, this old chestnut

Whats exactly wrong at the minute that Peace can do a lot about? Really sicl of these threads I am. By the way , it does state thats its an offer for more shares which is not compulsory

j2 i couldnt agree more with you. footballs a business and JP is a hard working business owner! Nobody ever comments on all the steady jobs he creates and protects around the club through his responsible management of the club. First and foremost nearly all of us are out to feather our nest in some way. We dont think twice about selling our house for a handsome profit do we for instance. Its the capitalist world we live in and whether we like it or not we all embrace it for our own ends right or wrong.

kris_boing

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Re: The Greedy Accountant is at it again
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2011, 09:01:10 AM »
If you want to sell your shares the offer is there.

I'm hoping hes trying to increase his share in order to maximise his profit when he sells to a multi-billionaire Oil tycoon with more money than sense or a multi-billionaire Albion fan.

Hope is a wonderful thing.

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Re: The Greedy Accountant is at it again
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2011, 10:18:24 AM »
What reasons are there for increasing his stake in the club other than preparing to sell it on for a greater profit?
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BaggieBirdRus

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Re: The Greedy Accountant is at it again
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2011, 10:38:45 AM »
This is all part of his master plan! He is going to get as many shares as he can to make the club look as desirable as it can to possible billionaires. This is because when a billionaire buys a club they basically want full control at the club, e.g. Man City, Chelsea etc and not going to want all the hassle of trying to buy the last remaining few shares.
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RowleyBaggie2

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Re: The Greedy Accountant is at it again
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2011, 10:55:46 AM »
Its an offer, take it or leave it - simple.

Personally the sooner the shares are consolidated the sooner investment can be found, its holding us back.
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dangerman

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Re: The Greedy Accountant is at it again
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2011, 11:21:21 AM »
The fact that JP doesn't have 80 or 90% shareholding is stopping us selling the club in my opinion.

People wanted to know why investers were interested in the likes of Blackburn etc and not us well I think that is your answer, it is too messy.

However, I don't think people should just 'sell up' because they have too, if they feel it's worth more to them than the offer then fair play to them and good luck.

Personally I think this is the next step to selling the club.

If he leaves us an established Prem club with no debt and makes a few bob out of us then I think that is a very good deal for both the fans and JP. Surely that's a win win situation? 

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Re: Peace makes new offer for shares.
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2011, 11:41:13 AM »
A Warning...If you have read the sticky on the main page called "This Forum" you will know we want to get this Forum back to its best by respecting each others views.This topic is one that in the past has got heated,please post respectfully whatever your feelings.Already the title of this thread has been changed and one post removed.
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Re: Peace makes new offer for shares.
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2011, 12:16:02 PM »
I don't want him to sell, very happy with what he is doing and how he has strengthened the club on so many different levels.

People are hoping for billionaire owners but this doesn't neccessarily equal success and often 'new money owners' don't have the club's best interests at heart. People crow about Peace filling his pockets and even if  he is, at least he is doing so while strengthening the club.  Could the same be said about the Venkey's et al.
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KevinWBAFC

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Re: The Greedy Accountant is at it again
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2011, 12:21:02 PM »
The fact that JP doesn't have 80 or 90% shareholding is stopping us selling the club in my opinion.

People wanted to know why investers were interested in the likes of Blackburn etc and not us well I think that is your answer, it is too messy.

However, I don't think people should just 'sell up' because they have too, if they feel it's worth more to them than the offer then fair play to them and good luck.

Personally I think this is the next step to selling the club.

If he leaves us an established Prem club with no debt and makes a few bob out of us then I think that is a very good deal for both the fans and JP. Surely that's a win win situation?



the 80% share ownership issue is crucial.

once you hit 80% it activaties a compulsary share buyout for the remaining share stock. obviously anyone wishing to invest significant capital in the club will want full control, rather than a controlling interest, in the club.

JP now holds 60%, he's after another 5% now, if he achieves that then i expect he will make an offer to geoff hale who holds just over 10% in the club, which will leave JP on a total of 75% if he succeeds. just 5% shy of the compulsary offer figure. he will then persue the final 5% he needs for the compulsary buyout and then market the club for sale.   

IMO.


Baggie79

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Re: Peace makes new offer for shares.
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2011, 12:36:50 PM »
Mountain and molehill come to mind. It is an offer if you want to sell then fine, if you dont want to then fine. I really dont see the problem. Best long term chairman we have ever had, just look where we are now compared to when he took over?
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Re: Peace makes new offer for shares.
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2011, 12:43:30 PM »
I think this is a fairly straight forward transaction, and I am pleased that Peace wants more of the club.  This shows we are succesful.  I am at a loss on occassion to understand what fans expect of the Chairman.  He has acted with prudence and maturity in difficult times and continues to do so, Peace more than anyone over the years he has been in charge has guided the club forward and we only might start to realise this when he has gone.  Think about the other clubs of our size wrecked by mis-management.  Leeds, Southampton, Charlton, Portsmouth....list is endless.  We have a lot to be thankful for.

kris_boing

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Re: Peace makes new offer for shares.
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2011, 01:24:00 PM »
I think he has been a little too prudent at times resulting in our gradual improvement being far slower than expected.

For example we find ourselves, this season, in exactly the same position we were in when Robson was in charge for his first full season.  05-06 when we surrendered was 6 years ago.   Are we that much better?

Yes we have improved the infrastructure of the stands (or neutralised them) but reduced capacity and improved the training ground but ON the pitch are we significantly better?  I know we finished 11th last season which was a great achievement but the way the league panned out NONE of the bottom 12 were safe until the last few games.

I certainly dont see 6 years worth of improvement.   I can see the argument for slow progress but this takes it to the extreme.

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Re: Peace makes new offer for shares.
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2011, 01:25:11 PM »
All those praising the Chairman to the hilt were presumably equally impressed with our summer transfer dealings? One other thing to bear in mind, and I stand to be corrected on this, is that I believe the Club ends up funding these share acquistions rather than Peace himself?

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Re: Peace makes new offer for shares.
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2011, 01:32:55 PM »
I think he has been a little too prudent at times resulting in our gradual improvement being far slower than expected.

For example we find ourselves, this season, in exactly the same position we were in when Robson was in charge for his first full season.  05-06 when we surrendered was 6 years ago.   Are we that much better?

Yes we have improved the infrastructure of the stands (or neutralised them) but reduced capacity and improved the training ground but ON the pitch are we significantly better?  I know we finished 11th last season which was a great achievement but the way the league panned out NONE of the bottom 12 were safe until the last few games.

I certainly dont see 6 years worth of improvement.   I can see the argument for slow progress but this takes it to the extreme.

Look at the progress (?) 6 years before that and then 6 years before that and then 6 years before that.

We are in possibly the best position, as a club, that we have ever been in my supporting life time. I appreciate that there are a number of factors attributable to that but JP is a significant one of those.
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Re: Peace makes new offer for shares.
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2011, 01:35:05 PM »
I was happy enough that the manager got his top targets.

The last offer was quite complicated, nothing has been published about the financing of this offer.
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KevinWBAFC

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Re: Peace makes new offer for shares.
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2011, 01:49:40 PM »
One other thing to bear in mind, and I stand to be corrected on this, is that I believe the Club ends up funding these share acquistions rather than Peace himself?



two periods of share aquisitions have been funded by the club. c£3M was spent during robsons great surrender season, and c£300K was spent in 2010.

the rest have been payed for with his own resources.

a quick recap...



in

When JP first came to the club as a director, he brought £3M worth of fresh share capital in a rights issue. A large proportion of this £3M was provided by Kappa/Hamilton Trustees, who he had worked with before on other investment projects. This was bought just after the Bolton play off season ended and was reported at the following years AGM. This money payed for the new training ground and several players.

http://www.baggies.com/news/?id=332&pag=21



When he took over the chair from Thompson, after the summer split with Megson, he payed £55 a share to buy PT out which amounted to another £1.5M in total. That was payed in April 2003.

http://www.baggies.com/news/?id=544&pag=13



Buying Thompson out triggered a mandatory shares offer, again at £55 a share, which cost JP another £1.3M in total. That was payed in May 2003.

http://www.baggies.com/news/?id=552&pag=12



December 2008 saw JP invest another £750K for the shares that had not been either amalgamated by the existing small shareholders or brought up by other shareholders. He underwrote the shares consolidation.

http://www.birminghammail.net/birmingham...-22512311/



out


During the great surrender season the club completed a shares buyback that saw Kappa/Hamilton Trustee's shares brought from them for £3M, which would have equated to their original investment plus a premium.

in 2010 he completed another shares issue when the clubs holding company was changed. the share valuation of the entire share capital available for purchase was £6M. at the time of the share offer he was listed as owning a 56% stake in the club, when the offer was completed he held 60%, which means he bought 4% of the available shares which had been  valued at £6M, 4% of £6M is c£300K.

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2010/07/06/jeremy-peace-bids-to-up-albion-stake/#ixzz1XFaa62xA

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2011/05/18/sportscribddoc.pdf


balance


Thats a total of £6.55M raised by JP/Kappa for shares with £3.3M going back out to pay off Kappa/Hamilton Trustee's initial investment and amalgamate the consolidated shares in the new holding company, totalling £3.25M payed out by JP for shares.

« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 01:52:46 PM by KevinWBAFC »

kris_boing

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Re: Peace makes new offer for shares.
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2011, 01:55:55 PM »
Look at the progress (?) 6 years before that and then 6 years before that and then 6 years before that.

We are in possibly the best position, as a club, that we have ever been in my supporting life time. I appreciate that there are a number of factors attributable to that but JP is a significant one of those.

When Peace took over we'd already been promoted to the Premier League.  He was in an incredibly lucky position because of the divide between Thompson and the, at the time unsackable Megson.  In those 6 years hes has had unprecidented resources that come with the Premier League money.

I believe, it can never be proved however, that under Thompson we would have far quicker progress than we have under Peace.

KevinWBAFC

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Re: Peace makes new offer for shares.
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2011, 02:39:24 PM »
When Peace took over we'd already been promoted to the Premier League.  He was in an incredibly lucky position because of the divide between Thompson and the, at the time unsackable Megson.  In those 6 years hes has had unprecidented resources that come with the Premier League money.

I believe, it can never be proved however, that under Thompson we would have far quicker progress than we have under Peace.



JP's influence and work at the club didnt start when he took the chair though did it?

heres an interesting quote from paul thompson himself, at the AGM that followed the play off season, regarding it.



Paul Thompson used the re-election of two of the Directors - Jeremy Peace and Clive Stapleton - to give a summary of the achievements made over the last twelve months; the purchase and construction of the Football Development Centre, the improvements in the team and the construction of the new East Stand - not just a replacement of the old Rainbow, as he put it, but the completion of the ground. Thompson's description of the ground as one of the best in the First Division, and one that was ready for the Premiership if we can get there, was met with generous approval from the floor - as was his description of one of the decisions that Peace and Stapleton had helped to make: the appointment of Gary Megson. The £3 million of investment brought in by Jeremy Peace had played a major part in the progress made over the last twelve months, as had the effort put in by all the Board members.


http://www.baggies.com/news/?id=332&pag=21


as for paul thompson, loath as i am to criticise him, many of the criticisms faced by JP, for example, endless negotiations, haggling over fees for incoming players and haggling over personal terms for incoming players, are as pertinent regarding PT as they are JP.

lets also not forget PT giving new deals to adamson, lyttle and butler against the managers wishes, the implementation of a bonus scheme that was unworkable, and his handling of his relationship with GM that caused the bitter civil war that ruined our pre season preperations for our first premiership season.


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Re: Peace makes new offer for shares.
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2011, 02:54:09 PM »
We were losing 30k a week at the time and in danger of going out of business altogether so prudence was far more an issue.

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Re: Peace makes new offer for shares.
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2011, 03:06:04 PM »
We were losing 30k a week at the time and in danger of going out of business altogether so prudence was far more an issue.



that loss had already been turned around due to the kilbane/maresca sales during the near relegation season.

the following two seasons we had the £3M brought in by peace/kappa, the c£4M from the ehiogu clause and the £5M from hughes to play with.

that didnt stop us from protracted negotiations with gilchrist, hoult, moore, dichhio and others which threatened those deals taking place and saw us sign them weeks or sometimes months after we could have. it also didnt stop us from missing out on jason koumas during the 11 point choke campaign. how many more did we miss out on?

the dichio deal stalling intensified the rift between megson and thompson that pretty much led directly to thompson leaving in the summer. i'm sure you can remember both parties using the club programme and the local press to criticise each other during the promotion season?

dont get me wrong, PT did a good job overall for us and i appreciate it, but he had his faults.


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Re: Peace makes new offer for shares.
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2011, 04:02:46 PM »
Can we try and keep this as a debate/discussion rather than a slanging match please?
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Re: Peace makes new offer for shares.
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2011, 04:03:37 PM »
People must have known that their share purchase wasn't forever. I get the 'buying a bit of the club' argument because I am a supporter and the 'emotions' in me would rule me head.

My brother has a share in the Disney Company, he loves the movies etc and wanted a part of that for similar reasons, but he wouldn't expect to keep his share forever nor would he expect to make money, yet most if not all of the shareholders will leave with a profit should they sell.

With the share consolidations last year surely this is a case of a good buisness man making most of the system? Surely if the question of being 'moral' about buying shares is brought up you have to question the system?

Unfortunately alot of every day life is about beating the system, wether it be getting off with a speeding fine or shopping around for a cheaper price its about making the most of a situation.

If you let your emotions get the better of you in business, your business won't last that long and I am glad JP hasn't pandered to some of the fans pleeding 'hard done by' because if he had, i am sure we wouldn't be sat here today talking about the Albion.

Maybe I am being harsh but sadly that's the way of the world and to think anyone cares about us little people is just naive in my opinion.