[iwastherein68]

I believe the main focus of our recruitment was squad back up plus Johnston.

 With our defence performing as well as it does the need to rotate was probably deemed unnecessary.

Now the need is there, through injury,  the new guys will get the game time and fill the purpose they were brought in for in the first place.

What , and no replacement for Kipre, and Yokuslu. Holgate bought in as back up for Semi and Kyle?
I don't think so.

[zippyandbungle]

And yet neither one of you have answered the question…

Yet both of us actually did

He was undoubtedly one of the better performers at Blackburn,but only played because of an injury to one of the favourites that can’t be dropped.
You and others have said that the defence hasn’t conceded many so isn’t The Problem,and I get the thought process but we need to get the ball moving and forward quicker,Semi and Bartley are ponderous and opposition managers of teams such as Plymouth,Cardiff,Milwall are coming with the intention of letting them and palmer stroll around with it …McNair and Holgate  look sharper and more forward thinking …it’s a pity McNair got injured but for me Holgate and Heggem will prove themselves in the position.
Tge underlying problem is that The manager should and could have used the players at his disposal earlier and better …rather than persisting with his preferred players despite the results turning .

[beechyboy90]

Injuries may force Carlos to do something. Presuming Ajayi Mcnair and Bartley are all injured for coming game means Heggem and Holgate at cb. Will we see Frambotta? Styles doesn't look a left back to me...

The thing he does need to do is get Fellows and Johnston both back in the 11 together. The main reason we were so good back end of last season is you cannot afford to double up on both!

Also my concern is with Maja Injury history he shouldn't be playing as many minutes as he is. May as well give Cole 10 mins here and there. Not sure Dobbin has touched the ball since he came in on loan

[NJS]

During the game against Cardiff, Ajayi made several forward passes that eluded 2 or 3 opposition defenders but were intercepted by another in the packed defence,  The usual groans from certain parts ensued.

Q1  Is this a failed pass by Semi or a failure of an attacker to accept it?

Q2  If he had booted the ball forward skyward, the result was probably going to be the same.  Why do some see this over the top method of  getting the ball forward quickly seen as preferable to an attempted defence splitting pass?

[gazberg]

Someone on FB said they were at the open training today and the formation looked different.

On the ball he said it was a '2 up top' with Wallace playing alongside Maja.

Off the ball Maja dropped into the 10, leaving Wallace up front (I assume)

Cole and Dobbin replicated the same drills etc as the back up 2 (I imagine)

[zac]

Someone on FB said they were at the open training today and the formation looked different.

On the ball he said it was a '2 up top' with Wallace playing alongside Maja.

Off the ball Maja dropped into the 10, leaving Wallace up front I assume.

Cole and Dobbin replicated the same drills etc as the back up 2 I imagine.

If Wallace upfront is the answer i don't even want to hear the question.

[gazberg]

If Wallace upfront is the answer i don't even want to hear the question.

Don't know mate i'm just posting what i saw from the 'West Bromwich Albion IST fans discussion page'.  I won't post the blokes name, he's not a journo.

[boingboing1989]

If Wallace upfront is the answer i don't even want to hear the question.

I'm hoping Wallace is the Dike proxy and we're gearing up for Maja and Dike two up top.

[robnewbold]

We seem to be trying to do what Arsenal did in their bad old days and walk it into the net.

[gazberg]

Ajayi out for 4 months, McNair out for 2 months -official Facebook site

[zippyandbungle]

Ajayi out for 4 months, McNair out for 2 months -official Facebook site

I can’t understand why we didn’t utilise McNair at the start of the season knowing he was off after Christmas,it would have enabled rotation and I’d suggest lessen the risk of injuries to others …
Repeat for Fabrotta/Styles at left back …to protect Hagen who is now the first choice CB and him and Holgate know that they have no competition and cannot afford injury or suspension…Shambolic use of the squad
Course we could put good ol Jed in first 😂😂

[gazberg]

I can’t understand why we didn’t utilise McNair at the start of the season knowing he was off after Christmas,it would have enabled rotation and I’d suggest lessen the risk of injuries to others …
Repeat for Fabrotta/Styles at left back …to protect Hagen who is now the first choice CB and him and Holgate know that they have no competition and cannot afford injury or suspension…Shambolic use of the squad
Course we could put good ol Jed in first 😂😂

Poor use of squad I agree.


We should be moving Jed on, not playing him anywhere

[zippyandbungle]

Poor use of squad I agree.


We should be moving Jed on, not playing him anywhere

Whilst I want heggem/Holgate as the 2 cb’s …it would be good to have some fit ones on the bench…Semi got injured trying to cover his own error,Bartley should not have had his contract extension IMO …McNair and Taylor as cover and rotated when we are/were 2-0 up or comfortable last 10 mins would have been ideal .
The big big worry now is Maja…we have 100 wingers and we are unable to get Cole any minutes,if Maja gets a knock then he’s in from the cold and that really isn’t fair on him.

[gazberg]

Whilst I want heggem/Holgate as the 2 cb’s …it would be good to have some fit ones on the bench…Semi got injured trying to cover his own error,Bartley should not have had his contract extension IMO …McNair and Taylor as cover and rotated when we are/were 2-0 up or comfortable last 10 mins would have been ideal .
The big big worry now is Maja…we have 100 wingers and we are unable to get Cole any minutes,if Maja gets a knock then he’s in from the cold and that really isn’t fair on him.

Can't disagree with any of your comments.

[Standaman]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c62l6p7lw2yo

West Bromwich Albion boss Carlos Corberan expects Semi Ajayi to be out for 16 weeks following surgery on a hamstring injury which has sidelined the Nigeria international alongside fellow centre-backs Paddy McNair and Kyle Bartley.

McNair, who was also forced off by a hamstring problem during the Baggies' 0-0 draw at home to Cardiff City in the Championship on Saturday, is expected to be out for eight weeks, while vice-captain Bartley will miss between four and six weeks as a result of a knee procedure.

“We are talking about three specific centre-backs who have had injuries at the same time, all within a week," said Corberan.

"It is what it is and it will be a challenge for us as a team and for individuals, too."

Corberan has been working with summer signings Ousmane Diakite, Torbjorn Heggem and Gianluca Frabotta as potential cover for the injured trio.

Mason Holgate played for the first time since signing on a season-long loan from Everton on August 30 with an 11-minute substitute appearance against Cardiff.

"We will have times when the situation is more challenging with defenders and we need to find solutions," Corberan said.

"We still have players like Heggem, who has played at left-back at an amazing level and can find his level too as a centre-back.

"He has played there before, which is one of the reasons why we brought him in. Holgate is another who is similar to Heggem and can manage these positions.

"There are players who can allow me to keep playing with a back four or find an alternative with a line of five.

"Within a line of five, you have players like Diakite, who hasn't played as a centre-back in his career but, we think, can adapt to be in a line of three centre-backs.

"Frabotta is a pure left-back or wing-back but we are developing some of his skills as one of three centre-backs."

Daryl Dike has had his return pushed back to next year after sustaining a muscle problem.

Just picked up the above from the BBC website (assume from an interview with Radio WM).

I have to say that is an interesting response to having 3 out of 5 CB's out with injury going to a 3 at the back which requires er... more CB's than we currently have fit. It might be a set up purely for Luton who are one of the few teams in the Championship that regularly play 3 at the back.

I have no idea how it might fit together who the wing backs might or the rest of the structure. I will await tonight's line up with interest.

[mulliganstired]

We haven't got any "stopper" CBs left, so we probably have to go for a back five really, which would allow the FBs to still have licence, and also mean you could fit Styles in if necessary.

[alex1]

I think we were playing a back 3 towards the end of the Cardiff game with Furlong and Styles further forward as wing backs.  I think there are 2 crucial things to consider with the defensive formation. 1) Can they play the ball out from the back, 2) can they defend. On the first point, I have my doubts. None of them look particularly comfortable with the ball which is probably why they are extra slow. Heggem will probably have to be one of the 3 but even his distribution is not great, but his defending is no nonsense.  I haven't seen enough of Holgate to say, but the fact Everton released him probably tells you something. I thought Styles was ok at left back, except for his crossing which was shocking, and that is an important detail. 

We need to be quicker building through the midfield. Unfortunately, the players there have their limitations. We need players who can turn with the ball, through 180 degrees, like Yokuslu could, but most aren't confident enough to, apart from Swift, who on the other hand tends to slow the game down.  Saying that, players losing possession  in that position can be catastrophic, so that's why they keep playing it backwards, but unfortunately that slows the whole process down.

The other big problem we have is that all our forwards and wingers are nowhere near their top form. Dianga looks a bit lost, but I think he's worse playing in a No.10, as he just gets bundled off the ball through the pace of the game.

[graka]

Whilst there are numerous issues Bartley/Ajayi doesn’t work but we may not see that again for a while, lack of creativity from a number 10/who to play there
I think ultimately we need to sort our centre mid out, the eng8ne room or lack of engine room
We have not replaced yokuslu like for like, mowatt is a decent player but my god he runs in treacle
If mowatt starts we have to play molumby or diakite to gives us some energy
Perhaps a molumby /diakite axis with mowatt in front would be worth a shout or even Racic
I think the signing of a more all round cdm is our priority it will prevent players coming so deep to get the ball pushing us further up the field

[zippyandbungle]

Whilst there are numerous issues Bartley/Ajayi doesn’t work but we may not see that again for a while, lack of creativity from a number 10/who to play there
I think ultimately we need to sort our centre mid out, the eng8ne room or lack of engine room
We have not replaced yokuslu like for like, mowatt is a decent player but my god he runs in treacle
If mowatt starts we have to play molumby or diakite to gives us some energy
Perhaps a molumby /diakite axis with mowatt in front would be worth a shout or even Racic
I think the signing of a more all round cdm is our priority it will prevent players coming so deep to get the ball pushing us further up the field

I have said before we need legs in there and I would have gone the back 4 that started last night
With 2 in front Molumby and Diakite
And put Mowatt in the 10 if we agree that other options so far haven’t worked ,he wouldn’t be required to get backwards/forwards and technically he can play ??
Then the three in front need to be Maja …flanked with either Johnstone /Grant on the left …Fellows/Dobbin on the right
That gives us so much more energy than the starters last night
Diangana/Wallace/racic/Mowatt cannot move around the pitch with any pace energy,and the two in midfield didn’t offer any bite so use the players that can ..

[Standaman]

I am starting to think our much trumpeted squad depth is somewhat illusory. 

 I have always been of the opinion that building a squad should start with a first XI that makes sense in relation to the tactical template, then address how to provide cover for each player. A squad might have a couple of wildcards or players that can be used in game specific situations but what a coach and the recruitment staff should be doing is working to a clearly defined plan and the first priority is to get a functioning first XI.

I get the impression the plan wasn't as clearly defined as it might have been and the line up certainly at the start of the season was somewhat experimental but it worked and that came to be the default. The early season performances of Grant and Heggem (at left back) stalled the introduction of the new players and created the default Ajayi/Bartley partnership at CB.

As ever the fluctuations in form and fitness prompt any coach to make changes. The injuries to 3 CB’s don’t give us many clues to Corberan’s thinking other than he chose Styles over Frabotta at left back which must be a concern for the player who hasn’t featured much since his arrival.

However on Friday Corberan did have all the midfield and forward options available to him therefore that line up was an attempt to address the current issues.

The base formation has been a 4-3-3. Typically the structure of the midfield is Mowatt as the deep sitting playmaker with one of Racic/Molumby and either Swift/Diangana playing in the 10 role. Ahead of the midfield Maja has been the lone striker with Grant and Fellows playing left and right wide attacker roles, Grant being inverted and Fellows in a more traditional winger role.

On Friday Corberan went with Diagana as an inverted wide player on the right which is more typical in a modern 4-3-3. Yet what was more atypical was dropping Wallace into the 10 role which turned it into a 2nd striker with Maja as is his habit from time to time dropping deep into the midfield to collect the ball.

In theory it puts another attack minded player on the pitch and gives Maja more passing options when he collects the ball. In short either because of the limitations of the personnel or because we got overrun in midfield the changes made matters worse

The issue is that the 4-3-3 particularly where the 6 is in a play maker rather than a DM needs a double 8 both to add ball winning strength but also to get into the opponent's penalty area.

At this point the obvious combination is Mowatt, Racic and Molumby. Although Styles could provide cover and Whitwell who is being developed as an 8 is waiting in the wings.

This brings us onto the front 3. At Centre Forward Maja is the only viable option at the moment with Cole as a backup option. Grant has rightly made the wide left slot his own and here we are 2 deep in cover (Johnston and Dobbin), If Corberanis looking to also invert the right winger then Diangana is the only option but on the evidence Diagana is ineffective in that role.

As such that leaves Corberan with the slightly suboptimal solution of playing a right footer wide right; we have Fellows and Wallace here but also could draft Dobbin or Johnston into the role.

If we are wedded to a 4-3-3 it leaves about 4 or 5 players redundant unless Corberan reverts to the 4-2-3-1, in which case a different group of players are side lined with little or no chance of meaningful minutes

Either way the squad gives Corberan options but depth is lacking in that in any set up we have players for a starting XI but quite quickly we end up with players not really playing to their strengths.

[BalisPen]

Like Jim in American Pie, declarations on the strength of our squad were premature.

Most of the players we signed we'd not heard of or they were coming from a the division below.

We signed MJ and expected him to produce the flashes of brilliance we only saw intermittently last season on a consistent basis, even though we knew that he had never done that at Celtic.

Add to that a rapidly declining Wallace and none existent GD and JS and our team got to the top thought clinical finishing and brilliant assist tally of Maja and TF respectively and a sold defensive unit.

It is still early for the new signings to write any of them off, but CC has openly said Frabotta has found it hard to adjust and that he spent to long moaning about not getting fouls in the championship that he would have got in Italy.

Previously, when Swift wasn't performing Grady was absolutely vice versa but this season they have both been pathetic and that has spread at MJ.

TF was never going to keep up with assist a game who was nearly averaging and Maja was not going to score in every game, but the fact that everything stopped (or did start) from all of them is hard to predict let alone deal with when you are relying on players who in the main are new to the club and others are useless like Dobbin.

Fans shouldn't have got carried away with the squiad strength and being first, even though when we were winning it was basically the same team as last season plus Heggem, when we were first and now
they shouldn't asking for CC's head.

Hopefully, we can stay in touch until January and hopefully move some deadwood on in January and have a attacking mf lined up on loan.

We've lost 3 centre halves and we haven't won for 7 games and yet we are still sixth.

Everyone in this division will have bad runs (Coventry, Cardiff, Boro), but I hope our new hierarchy can see that just throwing in unknown quantities doesn't mean you are going carry on winning and reinforcements will be required if you want to make more progress.

[SmethDan]

Something passed me by at Kenilworth Road on Friday night but I can't quite put my finger on it. Oh that's it. 4-3-3.

[NJS]

Basic rule of loans:  Aston Villa is not going to loan you anyone useful (cf Dobbin).  The strategy is to suck the life out of us by nobbling our prospects and then our support.  In Villa's eyes there's only room for one club in the neighbourhood.

[zippyandbungle]

Basic rule of loans:  Aston Villa is not going to loan you anyone useful (cf Dobbin).  The strategy is to suck the life out of us by nobbling our prospects and then our support.  In Villa's eyes there's only room for one club in the neighbourhood.

Isn’t the onus on us to Scout / Asses prior to entering the agreement?
If I were Dobbin I’d be stating that I really haven’t had enough opportunities to make a difference/show what I can do .

[zippyandbungle]

Like Jim in American Pie, declarations on the strength of our squad were premature.

Most of the players we signed we'd not heard of or they were coming from a the division below.

We signed MJ and expected him to produce the flashes of brilliance we only saw intermittently last season on a consistent basis, even though we knew that he had never done that at Celtic.

Add to that a rapidly declining Wallace and none existent GD and JS and our team got to the top thought clinical finishing and brilliant assist tally of Maja and TF respectively and a sold defensive unit.

It is still early for the new signings to write any of them off, but CC has openly said Frabotta has found it hard to adjust and that he spent to long moaning about not getting fouls in the championship that he would have got in Italy.

Previously, when Swift wasn't performing Grady was absolutely vice versa but this season they have both been pathetic and that has spread at MJ.

TF was never going to keep up with assist a game who was nearly averaging and Maja was not going to score in every game, but the fact that everything stopped (or did start) from all of them is hard to predict let alone deal with when you are relying on players who in the main are new to the club and others are useless like Dobbin.

Fans shouldn't have got carried away with the squiad strength and being first, even though when we were winning it was basically the same team as last season plus Heggem, when we were first and now
they shouldn't asking for CC's head.

Hopefully, we can stay in touch until January and hopefully move some deadwood on in January and have a attacking mf lined up on loan.

We've lost 3 centre halves and we haven't won for 7 games and yet we are still sixth.

Everyone in this division will have bad runs (Coventry, Cardiff, Boro), but I hope our new hierarchy can see that just throwing in unknown quantities doesn't mean you are going carry on winning and reinforcements will be required if you want to make more progress.

Now me n thee have to play nice 😊

Firstly American pie is a great film and should be used to benchmark all situations ..

In terms of intermittently consistent …not sure ,but I think if being that was possible then wingers more than any other position could carry the badge
But
Mickey is very capable and did show it by scoring a very good solo goal for Celtic pre season
I think what many seem to have forgot is that he had a very nasty eye socket injury (aka G Santos) and that may have played some part in his early non form ??

On the players being from lower clubs,whilst some were…
Dobbin Villa/Everton
Holgate saints/Everton
Heggem Norwegian international
Johnston Irish international/Celtic
Even Styles has played for Hungary who ain’t shabby

I think it’s fair that fans expectations should rise on these players signing …
However I agree that there are players that are also on decline
Diangana …IMO has been very obvious for sometime but I think that both the fans and club “wanted” it to work as there does seem an emotional tie and there’s always the 16.5m
Wallace was steady and dependable but slowing and this season looks absolutely shot
Swift is in /out …I really think he is a great technical footballer but a couple of injuries lay offs,being in and out of the team and the lack of any real other pace in midfield makes it even harder for him to have impact

On the manager ,I’ve said a few times he needs to be asked some tough questions,I don’t agree that “no one should want him out” I agree that there are worse managers out there,but by definition that would mean there are also better out there…no doubt under him we have moved on and are in a much better place,but I do believe Albion fans are very romantic and loyal past a point …
The loss of the centre halves has IMO left us with the best pairing,but without cover,for this I think the manager must take some blame as we needed some rotation earlier in the season .
You are correct,in this league with so many fixtures all teams will have blips…be great If Thursday (not sure why we couldn’t play weds?) is the next win .