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Messages - johnny Cash

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I don’t know why Dike is thrown in the equation. I can’t see how he can go anywhere. Injured until the end of the year, two years left and probably uninsurable for any new club. We would have to give him away and pay him up

Over the last 6 games QPR have won 4 drawn 1 and lost 1 which means they’ve taken more points than us over that period.  Over the last 10 matches we’ve both got 17 points.

I didn’t realise how buried they must have seemed considering they are still only on the same points as 21st. Their new manager is doing a good job and this now looks like quite a tough game. 

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Grady Diangana
« on: Yesterday at 10:33:35 AM »
This puts it in context. Imo, it's his second best season at the club and shows he has improved compared to his last couple of seasons. While he's not at his peak, he's still been decent at times this season and has shown a bit more consistency. Before AFCON he was in really good form and has come back in the cold a little. Nonetheless, his goal is a positive and shows he's still an asset. I really don't think he's as bad as some are making out.

I think it provides some context but for me he doesn’t pass the eye test. His goal and assist stats might be three quarters of his best but he’s not half the player IMO. He’s capable of a lot better.

General Football & Sports / Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« on: March 02, 2024, 09:00:32 PM »
Would rather Leeds, Leicester and Southampton keep winning now. Fancy our best shot over two legs against Ipswich

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Mark Miles new CEO
« on: March 01, 2024, 04:04:13 PM »
Good luck to him. He has been with us through good and bad and his experience will be invaluable to Patel, at least in the short term. I'd imagine he's also been the person who has built the biggest relationship with Patel. Whether he will be with us longer term is impossible to predict.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« on: March 01, 2024, 11:39:03 AM »
So new owner and if still in Championship increase in revenue to 14 million a season with new sky deal. Should help with running costs of club.

Any idea what it is going up from? Only info I can seem to find is £8m but that’s a huge jump so seems unlikely?

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« on: February 29, 2024, 11:18:05 AM »
I believe the MSD loans are bespoke (not off the shelf).

The loan under Lai's stewardship carried a high level of risk, & a subsequent high interest rate.

IF, the Patel family have guaranteed repayment, then it's possible that they may have been able to extend the loan without an interest penalty.

The tone coming out from the Patels suggests that they have the capacity to repay the loan, Lai didn't, so from that point of view, I don't think there's too much to worry about.

Just to clarify on cash flow. It's not WBA's cash flow, it's the Patel's, they can inject cash over a period of time as opposed to all at once.

I wasn't suggesting a higher interest rate. A 10% interest rate over three years is less interest than a 10% rate over four years. If MSD have renegotiated, MSD are getting something out of it.

if I had lent money to a business owner who was taking money out of the business, I would charge a LOT more than to someone who was going to support (invest in) the business as much as the rules (FFP) allow.

If the new rates / terms are advantageous then I think Mr Patel would be daft not to take that advantage.  (MSD backing him suggests very strongly they are better terms &  He (SP) doesn't strike me as daft !

Do agree though that successful business men are often adept at manipulating the media and healthy scepticism is not a bad thing.

This is true, but MSD have a contract. They don't need to renegotiate anything outside the existing terms now.   If they have, their is something in it for them. That's almost certainly more money. 

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« on: February 29, 2024, 10:02:44 AM »
As for the MSD loan and interest rates being somewhere in the region of £50M I'm genuinely not sure about that one.

Agree, I don’t think it’ll be £50m. It could be near £40m though when all is said and done.

The initial loan was £20m with about £6m in interest (depending on when instalments are due). Rumours / reports are the second loan was £8m. Thats  Probably with another £2.5m in interest. That’s £36.5m. If we’ve added a year or more on it the additional interest by paying it down slower  easily takes us close to £40m.

Like you said to the overall post though, even if a lot of what Grumpy has said is true, it’s understandable people want to believe in the new regime. Hopefully the new emperor is wearing clothes (but many accept he may well be not).


West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« on: February 28, 2024, 08:43:14 PM »

I don't think he's taken on the MSD loan either, it's possible him & his father are acting as guarantors (why MSD wanted them), but I'm sure the plan is to pay off the loan from WBA Group income/profit.

Personally, I'm happy to give Lai the benifit of the doubt, it's impossible to make good business decisions when your hands are tied, but I'm pleased we now have owners who are not constrained.

Sorry, think I misread / misunderstood what you were saying. Yes agree the plan is still repaying it via club (although I think under FFP he can invest £8m per season and more for infrastructure so would be nice if he had plans to do so, which would sort of be him paying back some if not all of the loans).

I had some sympathy for Lai. We could have been relegated with any owner realistically, and failed to get back up. Never any guarantees. My sympathy went with the loans of club money and failure to pay it back

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« on: February 28, 2024, 08:29:51 PM »
Patel submitted his offer in September, took 6 months to sort according to Brum Mail

It’s from the horses mouth it took 5-6 months, he said in the interview he became aware of the opportunity in September and submitted his first bid a few weeks later

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« on: February 28, 2024, 08:25:18 PM »

Reading between the lines, it looks as though Bilkull Football has taken on all of the loans (MSD, Wisdom Smart & the Peace loan)

It looks as though he's going to make good the Wisdom Smart loan, (the Peace Loan is subject to litigation, so not able to be resolved yet).

I suspect he's hoping to repay the MSD loan from media income as a consequence of promotion to the EPL.

There was an article on Birmingham Live a few weeks ago that stated Shilen Patel had a personal wealth of around £100 million & his father, £400 million. If that's true, we haven't got the wealthy owners we thought we had.

We do have the benifit though of an owner who's hands are not tied by government.

I’ve seen it suggested on twitter he has taken on the msd loan. He hasn’t based on his interview, unless somehow he’s become a personal gaurantor / underwritten it with msd (he’s taken it on in the sense owns the company that’s majority shareholder, but that’s no different to how Lai was on for it)

Big difference being our financial position destroyed the value of Lai’s investment and he had no idea how to turn it around. Patel has brought it low and has plans but It’s still a loan to the club with security on club assets.

If he can’t start to turn it around we are still in trouble / in a precarious position for a while yet, but that’s not Patels fault.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« on: February 28, 2024, 06:41:09 PM »
If it’s a £60m takeover, who is he paying £60m to if Lai is only getting £10-£20m?

I’m fairly sure it’s not a £60m takeover / he’s not paying £60m to anyone.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« on: February 28, 2024, 06:19:54 PM »
Just watched the interview with Patel on the OS.

Can anyone explain in more detail his answer to the question about the MSD loans. It sounds like he is still planning for the club to pay them back to MSD, not the new owners. Which I thought would be the plan?

I’ve just watched it to. I would recommend anyone watch it rather than read it.

I had hoped he would clear the debt (maybe he can’t as it’s a club debt, not sure how that would work with FFP), but obviously he’s now on record saying he will not. That means his initial investment is  relatively cheap, the £10m the Athletic have reported probably.   

That matter makes me a little nervous to be honest and I’m still not convinced they are that rich (football wise)

However, he speaks well, it’s clear it’s a business and investment for him (which I don’t think has been in doubt) but he seems sincere. He speaks a lot like the chairman of the company I work for which is a large Fortune 500 American company still run by members of the founding family.

I hope he’s can be as bright and astute as he thinks he can be within football ,because his plan is to do this with his intellect not his wallet!

It’s a good interview though and the interviewer does ask the right questions and overall he comes across well.

He said the club will have what it needs to operate inside FFP when asked about finances. I wonder if that is a signal he plans to put in the £8m per year he can.

The part I didn’t quite follow was about the Warmfront loans.

Big shake up and huge reductions to wage bill still needed this summer

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Darnell Furlong
« on: February 28, 2024, 11:10:45 AM »
Someone has applied the Fantasy premier league points system the championship and used it to create a championship team of the season.  Kipre, Palmer and Furlong all make it using those metrics.  With us having kept the most clean sheets it is not surprising but the defense have done well as a unit.

Some turnaround given that after pre-season and until the end of September many were wondering how on earth we would compete conceding 2 goals a game. Including Millwall on September 23rd, its 15 clean sheets in 27 matches. 

Megson kept a club record 24 clean sheets in the league, ill be difficult for this defense and CC to do that, but if we maintain the consistency of clean sheets since the the Millwall I have us hitting 21!

If only we had an out and out goal scorer.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Alex Palmer
« on: February 26, 2024, 07:45:49 PM »
Think Palmer's getting an unnecessarily harsh deal here.

Yes he has saved tougher shots but it was the run up to it for me, you could see it coming.

I think so too.

He should have saved the goal in my opinion, it wasn’t right in the corner and it went through him, it’s not like he only got finger tips to it and his kicking / touch was terrible on Saturday.

However he’s been good generally, seems he has  a decent relationship with his defence and he’s quite commanding.  He’s made some very good saves over the season and most keepers outside the prem will cost their sides a few goals a season, even prem keepers cost a couple. 

I wasn’t a fan either but I’ve changed my opinion and he’s good enough for a championship side that could get promoted. That’s not to say we don’t have a decision with Griffiths. He really needed another loan though.

Last Match Forum - 01/03 Coventry City (H) / Re: Pre Match Chat
« on: February 26, 2024, 10:15:41 AM »
Very big game this, a win here and that gap to 7th could be looking good

5th to 10th in the league are all playing each other.  Sunderland probably need to beat Norwich or they are out of it. 

If we win, and Sunderland get anything against Norwich, its a minimum 6 point gap to 7th unless Preston beat Hull (4 points if they do and its not the worst thing in the world for Hull to lose). 

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Run in to end of season
« on: February 25, 2024, 12:28:42 PM »
Agree with Oldbury. I said yesterday I still thought we would drop out but the next two weeks / four matches were huge. Yesterday’s results were better than realistically expected and I think expectations and the measure of success now changes. Not making the play offs from here would now be a failure.

Our away form has to continue get better though, as does our return when going behind. We have a lot of away matches against teams that will be scrapping and they will be tough matches to come.

Big chance to dent Coventry’s chances further coming up with Norwich also playing Sunderland and Hull, Preston. Thats 5th-10th all playing directly against another in that group in the next set of fixtures.

Last Match Forum - 24/02 Hull City (A) / Re: After Match Debate
« on: February 24, 2024, 02:28:41 PM »
They were better second half without being dominant. Probably a fair result but we certainly didn’t deserve to win.

Good point overall, most of us would have taken it.

Last Match Forum - 24/02 Hull City (A) / Re: In Game Chat
« on: February 24, 2024, 02:05:46 PM »
Got the Ipswich feel about it at present. We need a goal against the run of play as I think they’ll get one

Last Match Forum - 24/02 Hull City (A) / Re: In Game Chat
« on: February 24, 2024, 01:39:21 PM »
I agree it was disappointing that Palmer didn’t save their goal but what alternative options have we got?  Bringing Griffiths on would be a disaster given his last performance for us.

I’ve only really seen one person implying he should be replaced.  It’s a mistake but sadly as a keeper it has a huge effect.

Last Match Forum - 24/02 Hull City (A) / Re: In Game Chat
« on: February 24, 2024, 01:26:34 PM »
Mikey Johnston started really well. Also interesting to see Fellows again against Giles, as I distinctly remember Giles showing how far off it Fellows was a couple of years ago when he started against Cardiff.

Think overall we have done well but that’s a poor goal to concede, too slow to react and Palmer beaten too easily. Shocked to see we’ve only taken 2 points when going behind this season.

Last Match Forum - 24/02 Hull City (A) / Re: In Game Chat
« on: February 24, 2024, 01:09:34 PM »
Palmer should save it. He’s been shaken generally today

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Run in to end of season
« on: February 24, 2024, 12:25:21 PM »
Playoffs will be an outstanding season for us even if we go out in the semi's. I don't expect us to beat Leeds/Leicester/Southampton over 2 legs in the semis but I think we could give Ipswich or A N Other a good go. Not sure we would win a final though.

If we make play offs they are free hits in effect as with our injuries and off-the-field issues we shouldn't be in this position.

Agree about the semis in that I’d rather meet Ipswich and in many respects I think the semi being over two games is a tougher ask. If we made the final we wouldn’t be favourites but we would have more than a punchers chance over 90 minutes.

I still think we will just miss out though but the next 2 weeks are huge and I think they will be make or break.

General Football & Sports / Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« on: February 24, 2024, 09:56:54 AM »
Coventry 3 down to Preston at home  :o

Good result for us. If we could win the next two and Norwich stutter a little our play off chances would look really strong

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Mikey Johnston joins on loan (Official!)
« on: February 23, 2024, 02:43:30 PM »
There’s a number of debates with Celtic and Rangers joining the prem, including how they’d do immediately and how they’d do in time.

I personally don’t think there is much doubt about either. Both would struggle and potentially be relegated if the went straight in. Over time I think they’d be solid premier league clubs though.

They are too both big not to be, and would probably both be brought by billionaires quite quickly. Newcastle and spurs both get over 50k attendances with rich owners though and both have a battle on for top 6 nevermind league titles. 

It would be interesting to see in theory, but I can’t see it ever happening.

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