[GrGr]

Yes, we are in transition. Darren Moore can only take responsibility for and fix situation related to the current squad's training, match preparation, team tactics and so on. The club has been seriously mismanaged for a number of years under TP et al. This has left us with a very poorly balanced  squad. However, it is Darren's job to make the most of what he has got here and now. This is not happening and that Darren must fix.

At least the club has recognized one of the problems, recruiting fresh talent, and appointed a head scout at long last. The club now needs to trim the squad of aging overpaid players and find new talent to build around. The team on the pitch needs to have a solid defence, a strong spine, and reliable goal scoring. The goal has to be a hungry, hard working, talented team with as few flaws as possible. But that is the long term goal and it won't happen overnight.

Darren's team has obvious problems, and that is where he needs to start and where I am looking for immediate improvement from him.

[Droitwich Baggie]

If you look at the back of our matchday programme and compare our squad with our opponents ours is sizeable. It's all very well saying Moore is hampered by the squad he has but he has a far, far better squad than most clubs in the Championship, you could argue all clubs. We were awful at Hull on Saturday look at their squad and compare it to ours.

I know Graeme Jones is having a major influence on how we play but Darren Moore is HEAD coach he carries the can, he is ultimately responsible for what we do on the pitch. If he is being over-inflenced by Jones then he's not strong enough to be a head coach.

Yes, we had to change from Pulisball but now we've gone completely the other way no organisation, no solidity, no structure. It doesn't have to be one or the other i.e.e ultra pragmatic or no pragmatism there is a middle ground.

A lot of coaches would give their right arm for a squad like Albion's. Darren is making the job hard by playing the system he is and picking the players he is perfect example Brunt in CM.EVERYBODY can see that Brunt is not a CM.

What is concerning is that we seem to be getting worse rather than better. Following the showing at Hull I'd question whether the players have lost or are losing belief in what they are supposed to be doing.

The best we've played all season was the opening half an hour of the Coventry game in the pre season friendly (lower league opposition I know). We've gone a fair way backwards since then.

It isn't always about what you have got, it is sometimes about the way you use it.
Pulis tried the same thing....round pegs in square holes.
Blunt (too old and useless now in my opinion) should never be put in the centre.
Robson Kanu is not a hold up player, so why even try to persist?
Please feel free to add your own.

[Atomic]

It isn't always about what you have got, it is sometimes about the way you use it.
Pulis tried the same thing....round pegs in square holes.
Blunt (too old and useless now in my opinion) should never be put in the centre.
Robson Kanu is not a hold up player, so why even try to persist?
Please feel free to add your own.

This is exactly my point.

He (Moore) has 3 central defenders playing a way they are not used to and not suited to. That is 3 of the 11 straight away who are square pegged.

Then there is Brunt who is not a central midfielder. So far that's 4 of the 11 not suited to the role they are asked to perform.

Matty Phillips is a natural winger not a wing back. 5 out of 11.

That is half a team square pegged. No wonder we don't resemble a team. You can get away with most things for a few games but not over a period of time.

[gazberg]

Big fan of Big Dave, just not as a manager, seems to be a good number 2 type but as for in charge with his inability to see the simplest of things not working? no thanks.

[17GD]

This is exactly my point.

He (Moore) has 3 central defenders playing a way they are not used to and not suited to. That is 3 of the 11 straight away who are square pegged.

Then there is Brunt who is not a central midfielder. So far that's 4 of the 11 not suited to the role they are asked to perform.

Matty Phillips is a natural winger not a wing back.

That is half a team square pegged. No wonder we don't resemble a team. You can get away with most things for a few games but not over a period of time.

Six, actually. Mears isn't a footballer.

But on a serious note, Field isn't a CB either.

[tuamigos]

Big fan of Big Dave, just not as a manager, seems to be a good number 2 type but as for in charge with his inability to see the simplest of things not working? no thanks.

The simple fact is that if it wasn't for his historic connections with the club he would not be anywhere near the manager/head coach job on a full time basis.
There's a world of difference between playing the last six games of a season with a squad of players vying for a move away and playing a full season with most of those same players that no one else would cough up for.
Would like to think he can turn it round but my head thinks that we will be looking for another head coach very shortly.

[seteefeet]

What's a new bloke going to do though? He'll still have the same players, so will still have to play square pegs.
I agree that Moore needs to sort out tactics, but I'm not sure there's a magic wand, or system, that will suddenly turn the likes of Brunt, Livermore, Barry, Morrison, Field, Bartley, Hegazi, Dawson, HRK, Mears and Rodriguez into great players.
These are the same players that we keep saying are "Good on paper" but the truth is they are just not. When was the last time, even in our good period, any one of these put in a MotM performance? Our squad flatters to deceive on a massive scale and, as has been proved these last few games, if we lose Gayle and / or Barnes, the rest are just as shocking as they were last year.
We need to stick with Moore and clear out this dross, which, I'm afraid, will take more time than we probably anticipated. i just hope that this is what Dowling alluded to when he said we would look to accept bids for our "better" players and replace them.

[stuvetti]

I'm not sure the players in defence are as bad as performances suggest. The fact is that despite finishing bottom, we were "Mid-table" for goals against last season. We still have Gibbs, Hegazi and Dawson and so we should be more than capable of defending in this league.

What's changed is our shape and we are all over the place when we lose possession. The defence is left to fend for itself and the opposition have oodles of time to get pot shots away with no midfield closing down. Eventually a few "worldies" are going happen as we've seen.

City and others that want to play out from the back and play possession football are going 4-3-3 and perhaps that would be a better option for us. Dawson back at RB, Lets see if Bartley is better in a 2.

With the pace of Philips and Barnes and the goal scoring of Gayle we are more than capable of scoring on turnover ball. Sure it might be 2-1's and not 5-4's, but the aim is promotion.

[NJS]

What's a new bloke going to do though? He'll still have the same players, so will still have to play square pegs.
I agree that Moore needs to sort out tactics, but I'm not sure there's a magic wand, or system, that will suddenly turn the likes of Brunt, Livermore, Barry, Morrison, Field, Bartley, Hegazi, Dawson, HRK, Mears and Rodriguez into great players.
These are the same players that we keep saying are "Good on paper" but the truth is they are just not. When was the last time, even in our good period, any one of these put in a MotM performance? Our squad flatters to deceive on a massive scale and, as has been proved these last few games, if we lose Gayle and / or Barnes, the rest are just as shocking as they were last year.
We need to stick with Moore and clear out this dross, which, I'm afraid, will take more time than we probably anticipated. i just hope that this is what Dowling alluded to when he said we would look to accept bids for our "better" players and replace them.

Perhaps if the 3 CBs played in a back four with 3 proper midfielders in front of them - they would no longer be square pegs?  It's about playing to the strengths not the weaknesses of what you have.

[telford baggie]

clear big dave out, clear his old has been mates out like brunt and take all the freebies with you that would be a good start...sooner hes gone the better

[WorcsWBA]

Darren Moore is limited by the rubbish squad that we have assembled on the cheap and the requirement to change the way we play from the Pulisball dross that we have had served up for the last few seasons. Rome wasn't built in a day but the expectation is that it can be at a football club and maybe it can if you spend the money but not if you pick up players who nobody else want. There is definately an element that we have been found out, we have 3 or 4 players who can make a difference and if you mark them out the game the rest are limited or clueless. That isn't about Darren Moore, that is the squad and no change of coach is going to change that.

On the other hand, Darren spent all summer saying that he was happy with the squad. Old managerial hands always put public pressure on the board during transfer windows, but Darren never did that. There were clear flaws in the squad that were pointed out regularly on here during the summer and yet nothing was done about it. Darren does have some culpability for this in my view.

I think people would cut him a lot more slack if they could see that he was identifying the tactical/positional flaws and trying to address them. However, he's shown very little sign of that and so people have understandably become fed up with seeing the same mistakes (e.g. Brunt playing in central midfield) being made week-in and week-out. His substitutions have often left very much to be desired too, but it's somewhat encouraging that, for once, he didn't turn to Robson-Kanu last Saturday.

[seteefeet]

Perhaps if the 3 CBs played in a back four with 3 proper midfielders in front of them - they would no longer be square pegs?  It's about playing to the strengths not the weaknesses of what you have.

If you play the 3 CB's in a back four,  at least one of them is a square peg, two if they are all right footed, and we don't have 3 proper midfielders. Brunt is not a CM, Barry is too old, as are Mozza and Hoolahan and Livermore is just very poor.
The point is that any new manager will have the same problems.
As I said in a previous post, if Darren refused new signings in favour of these experienced failures, then he has no-one to blame but himself. If, however, this scenario was forced on him by lack of backing, then the same will apply to his successor, therefore sacking him is not just futile but grossly unfair.
I think we need to wake up, to the glaring lack of quality in this team, despite what it says "on paper", and re-adjust our expectations.

[skyclad99]

On the other hand, Darren spent all summer saying that he was happy with the squad. Old managerial hands always put public pressure on the board during transfer windows, but Darren never did that. There were clear flaws in the squad that were pointed out regularly on here during the summer and yet nothing was done about it. Darren does have some culpability for this in my view.

I think people would cut him a lot more slack if they could see that he was identifying the tactical/positional flaws and trying to address them. However, he's shown very little sign of that and so people have understandably become fed up with seeing the same mistakes (e.g. Brunt playing in central midfield) being made week-in and week-out. His substitutions have often left very much to be desired too, but it's somewhat encouraging that, for once, he didn't turn to Robson-Kanu last Saturday.

Probably saying that because he was new to the role and wanted to say the right things in front of his chairman. He is hardly going to turn around and criticise them, but I know what you are saying and even if he did think that then, I bet he doesn't now. I know we don't!

[Hunnington Baggie]

If you play the 3 CB's in a back four,  at least one of them is a square peg, two if they are all right footed, and we don't have 3 proper midfielders. Brunt is not a CM, Barry is too old, as are Mozza and Hoolahan and Livermore is just very poor.
The point is that any new manager will have the same problems.
As I said in a previous post, if Darren refused new signings in favour of these experienced failures, then he has no-one to blame but himself. If, however, this scenario was forced on him by lack of backing, then the same will apply to his successor, therefore sacking him is not just futile but grossly unfair.
I think we need to wake up, to the glaring lack of quality in this team, despite what it says "on paper", and re-adjust our expectations.

I feel it’s more the latter than the former, especially as we had the documented fallout with Terraneo and Jenkins and so lost the guy who was meant to be heading up recruitment. I don’t think it’s surprising after that that many of the player we ended up getting were known or had close relations to Big Dave. Add that there was the chairman who said that Moore was calling about a player (I think Ryan Woods) everyday without official correspondence from the club adds strength that we lacked either the will or the ability to back him.

 He’s also had 1 window where , despite being “happy with the squad”, we brought in 10 players (3 on loan) with 7 of them aged 27 or under and I can honestly say bar Bartley the new players haven’t been that bad when called upon. Mears and Hoolahan have done a utility job, Townsend had a stinker first game but has looked better recently, Tosin similar and Gayle and Barnes have done great, Bond and Sako haven’t played enough to make an opinion.

[tuamigos]

I would be more than interested to know what it is that he actually analysis?
After every game he says that he and his team will sit down and analyse the game and pick the bones out of it, then get ready for the next game.
How much analysis does it require to see that HRK is a waste of a shirt, or Bartley, Hegazi and Dawson are accidents waiting to happen in this formation?
Puzzling remarks really when you see the same mistakes week after week.

[Fritzl Palace]

Are people really trying to blame the squad? Wow.

I am sure any team in the league would love to be able to start a front four of Sako, Barnes and Phillips behind Gayle with J-Rod on the bench. Darren just chooses not to do this, or to make substitutions that make any sense whatsoever or to give an interview that actually identifies what went wrong and analyses the performance or change a system that has barely worked all season with every performance being utter tripe or stop playing Brunt in the centre of pigging midfield.

Buck has to stop with him I'm afraid, as great a player as he was for us. He should never have been appointed and I blame the majority of fans as there was such a groundswell of opinion for him to be appointed.

[BalisPen]

I loved Darren Moore as a player and will never boo an Albion player or manager (although I hated Pardew), as I believe that role is reserved for the opposition.

However, I didn't feel Darren Moore was the right person for the job, as I felt the Albion manager had to earn the job by getting at least 2 promotions elsewhere and to have known his job when he came to us.

I fear Darren Moore is too nice.

He waited for GJ to go on holiday, when he should have been offered the job on the basis he would come in straight away as we needed him, in pre season, in order for him to give this passing style he wants a proper chance in training and in pre season games.

It is well documented that Terraneo had been sidelined and Garlick had left, so Darren Moore and MJ were doing everything on and off the pitch.

Darren Moore has been dealt a terrible hand in that MJ sole goal is cutting costs and the man who takes the blame is Darren Moore.

It's a results business and if Darren Moore doesn't show some guts and stamp his own authority and tighten up the defence, like he did when he took over last season when he ground out a point to end that horrendous run, he will be sacked.

The Leeds game will tell us if he adapts to the circumstances or if lets GJ get him the boot.   

[Windmill Baggy]

What's a new bloke going to do though? He'll still have the same players, so will still have to play square pegs.
I agree that Moore needs to sort out tactics, but I'm not sure there's a magic wand, or system, that will suddenly turn the likes of Brunt, Livermore, Barry, Morrison, Field, Bartley, Hegazi, Dawson, HRK, Mears and Rodriguez into great players.
These are the same players that we keep saying are "Good on paper" but the truth is they are just not. When was the last time, even in our good period, any one of these put in a MotM performance? Our squad flatters to deceive on a massive scale and, as has been proved these last few games, if we lose Gayle and / or Barnes, the rest are just as shocking as they were last year.
We need to stick with Moore and clear out this dross, which, I'm afraid, will take more time than we probably anticipated. i just hope that this is what Dowling alluded to when he said we would look to accept bids for our "better" players and replace them.

They don't have to be 'great players' for now in order for us to finish in the top 6 this season.

Do you really think that the likes of Sheffield Utd, Norwich, even Leeds and Derby have personnel any better than what is at DM's disposal? I don't. They are Championship quality sides,  nothing more.

Cardiff and Fulham were promoted last season, I watched both of them a decent number of times. I maintain their squads are (or at least were last season) no better than what we currently have, and I include the much maligned Bartley in that assessment. Neither had any strength in depth and 2-3 injuries to key players would have seen them done for. I would go as far to say that no more than 2 or 3 players from the both of their squads from last season would be able to come into our current XI and give it some improvement!

It's no surprise that in 22 league games between them so far this season they have registered 2 wins, one of which came from beating the other! This is how poor and lacking in quality they both were, yet they were promoted.

They were however both superbly coached by two very intelligent, experienced, and ruthless managers.

The players aren't the problem with us at the moment, it's the coaching.

[Backofthenet]

My view is that there are 'faults' on both sides - players and coaches.
Some players clearly didn't think they would be here and that they were too good for us. However a quick look shows they were part of a relegated side so in effect were not good enough themselves to be in the Premier League. That in itself is the price we pay for over inflated ego's. My thoughts on this is that we know who they are so the management must also know. They still keep playing them and in the selfish way of modern day footballers they are only playing to get away in January should someone be daft enough to take a punt. Lets be fair we bemoaned the loss of Rondon but he's not exactly set the world on fire and I would take Gayle every time over him.
Then there's the coaching. Sort out the system, play players that actually have a desire to play, check out the opposition and attack their weak points. It's not rocket science, other teams are doing it to us.
I can't believe that we don't have 11 players who would pull on an Albion shirt and give their all. The fact they are supposedly professional footballers suggests they can play a bit. It's not a difficult game but we do have a tendency to make it look difficult.

[Adder]

Yeah and the key gaping hole is a fit genuine AM that can produce on a regular basis or alternatively slot into CM to provide some legs and attacking threat. If Morrison was still 25 it would have been a good decision to keep him but given his age and the return we've had from him in the last two years it made it a blindly optimistic decision that was never going to work.

[seteefeet]

They don't have to be 'great players' for now in order for us to finish in the top 6 this season.

Do you really think that the likes of Sheffield Utd, Norwich, even Leeds and Derby have personnel any better than what is at DM's disposal? I don't. They are Championship quality sides,  nothing more.

Cardiff and Fulham were promoted last season, I watched both of them a decent number of times. I maintain their squads are (or at least were last season) no better than what we currently have, and I include the much maligned Bartley in that assessment. Neither had any strength in depth and 2-3 injuries to key players would have seen them done for. I would go as far to say that no more than 2 or 3 players from the both of their squads from last season would be able to come into our current XI and give it some improvement!

It's no surprise that in 22 league games between them so far this season they have registered 2 wins, one of which came from beating the other! This is how poor and lacking in quality they both were, yet they were promoted.

They were however both superbly coached by two very intelligent, experienced, and ruthless managers.

The players aren't the problem with us at the moment, it's the coaching.

If it's purely down to the coaching then Darren is the 3rd to fail with pretty much the same group of player, 2 of whom were far more experienced than him and all had completely different tactics and systems.
I agree wholeheartedly that Darren has a lot to learn and is not perfect but I also think our squad is dramatically over-rated  and to think that a new head coach could come in and suddenly transform  performances is naive.
As backofthenet says, there are issues on both sides of the fence so, to address only one solves nothing.

[wba_1996]

The squad isn't perfect by any stretch, but there is no excuse for them failing to beat an awful Hull side, and Blackburn and Wigan who were in League 1 last season. Either the players don't want to play for Moore (which is almost certainly not the case), or he is a poor head coach who can't set them up correctly to get the best out of them (something I think we have seen vast evidence of this season).

Fail to beat Leeds and I don't see how he can stay in the job.

[Nice1Cyrille]

Fail to beat Leeds and I don't see how he can stay in the job.

I think Albion are looking to Big D for the transfer window, so unless we go lose another 4 or 5 before then I don;t see him being released. Leeds are a decent team so it would have to be a thrashing for any movement by the board.
On the other hand, the last 4 games have been awful to watch so maybe you are on to something.

[darbolina]

We don't always see what happens in the club. We see some of the symptoms I guess (e.g. Pardew!!).

I don't see players giving up but it does seem Darren needs a plan B and maybe C as his plan A is being found out.

I'm not convinced on a Martinez (Jones) style 3-5-2 , playing out from the back through midfield with the players we have for a start.

I'd think we'd do better to have a much more compact set up and use the movement / pace of Gayle, Barnes, Phillips and maybe Sako to open teams up.  I like what Darren is trying to do but I think he's in danger of becoming an idealist failure like Mowbray did ultimatley (in the premier league) .

Often it's about momentum/ results and you get better performances as you get momentum .

We have a top 8 squad but not top 2 so I think we're about where we deserve to be.

[paulosull]

Think Jones is behind playing out from back but who keeps picking Brunt in midfield? He should have his head examined.