[NJS]

DM is a good coach and motivator but, tactically, he is all at sea.  He persists on playing to a back 3 scheme for which he doesn't seem to recognise he has the right resources.  There's no sense trying to play out from the back if your back line can't pass accurately under pressure and your midfield is too aged to get back to within their comfort range.  Someone, someone in the midfield must have the skill to turn with the ball when he receives it so he's not looking at giving it  straight back together with the opposition's press.  A manager needs to be ruthless.  If a player isn't cutting it in midfield he should be discarded without hesitation or feelings of loyalty.  A manager needs to recognise what's happening in real time and make changes based on the game situation not on some preconceived plan.  I think after his few victories at the end of last season it would have been very difficult not to give him a chance.  Shame because I think that Potter would have been a wiser choice with a wider knowledge of management.

We shouldn't hope for a sugar daddy to come along, we're not in a fashionable part of London and I can't see us as a trophy club for a foreign billionaire.  As ever in the black country we must do it by our own efforts and bringing on our own players.

[Mister AT]

For me, Big Dave's best role was behind the scenes working with the youngsters/ loan players.

You cant knock that hes a likeable guy and there's something about him which makes you want him to do well.

He's never a head coach for me though, that's nothing against him, he was put in this position way too soon and he was never going to turn it down as it may not have come round again.

He will have learnt more (hopefully) over the last few weeks and the next 3/4 games are massive for him and his career.

He HAS to go back to basics.

[stuvetti]

If you appoint someone with no managerial experience and who's only qualification is that he is not Pulis, or Pardew, then you reap what you sow. His whistling is great though and surely a spot on one man and his dog beckons.

It's a shame because Potter and Smith were available and we took the path of lowest resistance (from the fans). Good management needs to take brave decisions, which sometimes fly in the face of the fans wishes. I can imagine the hullabaloo if DM hadn't got the job.

The brave decision now would be to recognise that DM isn't equipped for the job and to act. Sadly, there doesn't appear to be many alternatives out there.

In the end we have two seasons to get out of this league, before we lose the parachute money and in reality they won't jettison DM until its too late. So the pressure will really be on next season.

 

[KN22]

For me, Big Dave's best role was behind the scenes working with the youngsters/ loan players.

You cant knock that hes a likeable guy and there's something about him which makes you want him to do well.

He's never a head coach for me though, that's nothing against him, he was put in this position way too soon and he was never going to turn it down as it may not have come round again.

He will have learnt more (hopefully) over the last few weeks and the next 3/4 games are massive for him and his career.

He HAS to go back to basics.

I agree with much of the above. The results he achieved at the end of last season made him nailed on to get the top job. I too have never seen him as a potential top manager. His remains our manager though and, as such, will certainly get my support. For the sake of the team and his own future however, he must start to play to the strengths that we have. That means a back four for starters. Let the defenders defend and stop this insistence on getting them to do what they clearly cannot do. I am not sure how he injects energy into the midfield though. Field does not look as good as we thought he was and you wont get the required energy levels from the likes of Brunt/Barry/Morrison or Hoolahan. I fear for us on Saturday coming but would love to be wrong!!

[paulosull]

I'd just wish he'd stop playing 3 at the back and go with 4 33 which seems to be where the game is going at the moment and stop playing his favourites.

[BalisPen]

What Franks on radio wm keeps saying is that Jones coaches the players in possession and Darren Moore coaches them when they are out of possession.

Jones and Darren Moore are supposed to be best friends.

But, we waited for Jones as he wanted to go on holiday before joining us.

He was a coach with Belgium, and imo was on holiday most of the time with international teams meeting up every 2/3 months for games.

Then he persists this shocking defence when a true friend tells his mate that it isn't working and these defenders aren't good enough to play this way and we will play to their strengths and then try and progress when we can with a more passing style.

A cynic could say that Jones is letting Darren Moore hang himself whilst conveniently placed to take the reigns when it all falls apart.

[Oldbury24]

One of the main concerns voiced on this board following the end of last season was that we were going to end up with a Pullis Mk 2 as Darren Moore had got his results from going back to basics with the players and just injecting some pride back into the team.  I think most of us were delighted when it became apparent that Darren Moore actually wanted to play an attractive and open type of football, playing from the back and utilising wing-backs.   We ALL knew we were at least one central midflielder(s), right back and striker short but the start we had seemed to suggest we might just get away with it.  Without Gayles injury this may have continued, as he really can be the difference at this level and it is no coincidence that Barnes form has dropped off without him ahead making runs and scaring defenders half to death.   Without any-one to run in behind (JRod runs in behind eventually, but no defender is scared of this chap anymore) and stretch the game Barnes is half the player. 

But we have lost Gayle and all of a sudden the transfer chickens have come home to roost.  It's horribly obvious that this squad does not have the pace, energy or invention within the midfield area to continue playing this way - I'm still getting flashbacks from the youth and exuberance in the Derby midfield - or the quality at the back to make up for it.   In additional we have lost Gibbs who after a poor start was starting to look a real threat and Phillips has done what Phillips does - find form and look a world beater - then get injured and look like he can't beat a defender with a 10 yard head start.

So what do we do? 

Should Darren Moore just accept that he hasn't got the squad to do what he wants, and go back to basics once more?  4-4-2 or 4-1-3-2 tight and compact, looking for channels and concentrating on defending first?  Stop conceding poor goals and look to steal a few ugly games?  Or

Should he gamble on the kids coming into freshen it up? Continuing to play an open game but with extra legs, even if they are inexperienced and unproven?   Hoping that quality re-enforcements will arrive in Jan (fat chance of that, lets face it).  Or

The final option, which is the one being taken at the moment - to carry on and hope it comes together again - getting Gayle back on the pitch alongside Sakho must be key to this.   

Which would you plump for???  1. Back to basics.  2. Try the kids.  3. Carry on and hope.

And no, I don't yet include replacing Darren Moore as an option.   Different manager, same problems.  The only manager that I know who could make something of this bunch of players is the capped one who put them together and even then, without a big man to bring on up-front and the threat of McCauley at corners and set-pieces I think he would struggle.   



 

 

[Albionic]

Hate to say it, but we have to revert to being tight at the back and grind a few games out, the other options have higher risk that the slump continues and confidence erodes more.
Go tight at the back with 4 protected by 2 and hopefully Dwight and Barnes get back together and nick us a few points.

The problem is a back 4 almost certainly means Daws at RB !  and the sheilding mf - 2 will almost certainly mean Barry in there.

I would likely go with
Daws   Hegazi  Tosin  Gibbs
 
 ___Field      Barry_____   as the defensive unit

[seteefeet]

The true test of a manager is how they cope with a blip and stop it turning into much worse. More experienced managers than Darren have succumbed under these circumstances but it does appear that he is not coping well. If he can halt the slide and somehow get us back to winning ways then it will have been a good show of mettle and will stand him, and us, in good stead for the long winter ahead. If he doesn't then I think the writing will be on the wall.
Struggling to see a way out at the minute though as, apart from Gayle coming back, I can't see how he changes it that much. The back 3 are rubbish, so may try a back 4 but that would mean an already half arsed Dawson at RB and we would still have the issue that no combination of our 5 or so midfielders can a) pass for toffee or b) have the balls to take the game by the scruff of the neck. If we can scrape through to January and still be there or thereabouts then Brunt, Livermore, Barry and Morrison have to be replaced with younger, braver, better options.
Not sure if he has been financially hamstrung, or he has orchestrated the situation himself by relying on experienced failures, but either way, he needs to act fast or it looks like being his downfall.

[Oldbury24]

Hate to say it, but we have to revert to being tight at the back and grind a few games out, the other options have higher risk that the slump continues and confidence erodes more.
Go tight at the back with 4 protected by 2 and hopefully Dwight and Barnes get back together and nick us a few points.

The problem is a back 4 almost certainly means Daws at RB !  and the sheilding mf - 2 will almost certainly mean Barry in there.

I would likely go with
Daws   Hegazi  Tosin  Gibbs
 
 ___Field      Barry_____   as the defensive unit

Hate to say it makes sense.....keep a few clean sheets and see what Barnes and Gayle can come up with, buy they only have to nick one goal rather than score three or four to get points.   One problem playing this way is our lack of a target up front for when the defenders just want to clear the lines.....please not HRK ....he brings the fans nothing but disheartenment.   I have nothing against him as a person, or even a tryer, but as a forward for a team with aspirations of the Premier League he is an example of everything wrong with our club at the moment.  "Experience" used as a substitute for any skill, pace and footballing ability. 

[Mister AT]

He has to go back to basics, but by going back to basics in a certain way he can continue to keep the 'attacking' threat there.

For example:

Dawson
Hegazi
Tosin
Gibbs

Barry
Livermore

Phillips
Barnes
Sako

Gayle

Playing 4-2-3-1 is what I believe the best formation with the personnel we have. Solid back 4, let them cover each other, concentrate on being defenders first, play the ball second, if it aint on then hit channel and press higher up the pitch.

The 2 sitters, Barry is arguably our best passer, sit him in there with Livermore who is the 'runner'. Barry isn't going to play every game so he can be replaced with Morrison/Hoolahan, someone comfortable of getting on the ball and starting play.

The 3 infront: Phillips, Barnes, Sako - this is were the threat comes from, can even slot Rodriguez on the wing (same with Brunt) if you worried they might not get back and defend when needed.

Gayle up top.

That formation for me, makes us look and feel more solid, still gives us a threat going forward, but most importantly doesn't leave us short at the back. If a full back goes forward, we still have Barry/Livermore to sit infront of the defence.

Will Big Dave revert to this from the kick off - No. Will he react during the game when its too late (i.e Derby and also weekend just gone) Yes.

[Oldbury24]

The true test of a manager is how they cope with a blip and stop it turning into much worse. More experienced managers than Darren have succumbed under these circumstances but it does appear that he is not coping well. If he can halt the slide and somehow get us back to winning ways then it will have been a good show of mettle and will stand him, and us, in good stead for the long winter ahead. If he doesn't then I think the writing will be on the wall.
Struggling to see a way out at the minute though as, apart from Gayle coming back, I can't see how he changes it that much. The back 3 are rubbish, so may try a back 4 but that would mean an already half arsed Dawson at RB and we would still have the issue that no combination of our 5 or so midfielders can a) pass for toffee or b) have the balls to take the game by the scruff of the neck. If we can scrape through to January and still be there or thereabouts then Brunt, Livermore, Barry and Morrison have to be replaced with younger, braver, better options.
Not sure if he has been financially hamstrung, or he has orchestrated the situation himself by relying on experienced failures, but either way, he needs to act fast or it looks like being his downfall.

I think it was a mixture of the above as yes he (and the club and many fans) misjudged the impact the likes of JRod and Dawson would have at this level, but I don't recall many other bids turned down and the Chadli situation did us no favours at all.    I do hold onto the fact that the players bought in on loan under DM (not as free's but genuine loans) have been our most successful players this season.  We have no idea how influential he was on these signings (particularily Gayle as that move was triggered by Rondon) but there was barely any other  infrastructure at the time so must have had a big say.   I also look at the players we tried half-arsedly to bring in at the death in Dack and Tavernier - if these were also Darren Moore's choices then that is going in the right direction for personal.   Not his fault we didn't make serious bids!   

The black mark of course is Bartley, but all managers make errors in their signings and more expensive ones at that.   I still see a decent (not good) championship centre half in there somewhere but he has struggled playing on the left of the three and the suspension must have been a relief for him.   
 

[Windmill Baggy]

The true test of a manager is how they cope with a blip and stop it turning into much worse. More experienced managers than Darren have succumbed under these circumstances but it does appear that he is not coping well. If he can halt the slide and somehow get us back to winning ways then it will have been a good show of mettle and will stand him, and us, in good stead for the long winter ahead. If he doesn't then I think the writing will be on the wall.
Struggling to see a way out at the minute though as, apart from Gayle coming back, I can't see how he changes it that much. The back 3 are rubbish, so may try a back 4 but that would mean an already half arsed Dawson at RB and we would still have the issue that no combination of our 5 or so midfielders can a) pass for toffee or b) have the balls to take the game by the scruff of the neck. If we can scrape through to January and still be there or thereabouts then Brunt, Livermore, Barry and Morrison have to be replaced with younger, braver, better options.
Not sure if he has been financially hamstrung, or he has orchestrated the situation himself by relying on experienced failures, but either way, he needs to act fast or it looks like being his downfall.

The 'back three' aren't playing well because they are playing as a back three and are being tasked with keeping possession and playing it out from the back, while also not having a suitable CM coming to take the ball and taking the pressure of them.

Go 2 at the back (Dawson and Hegazi) with 3 in the midfield (any 3 from the plethora of options we have excluding Brunt), to 1. give the defence more protection and 2. give us more bodies in midfield so we can more readily get control of it possession wise more frequently; move Brunt to the left (or drop him all together); and allow the defenders to move the ball up the pitch more quickly and things will improve pretty rapidly. Changing to a more suitable system and style of play from what we have may just lead to Dawson seeming a bit less 'half-arsed' as well as if most of the fans can see the system is badly flawed then I'm sure many of the players can as well. It's the set-up and tactics that is beginning to kill the team, not the standard of the players.

[Oldbury24]

He has to go back to basics, but by going back to basics in a certain way he can continue to keep the 'attacking' threat there.

For example:

Dawson
Hegazi
Tosin
Gibbs

Barry
Livermore

Phillips
Barnes
Sako

Gayle

Playing 4-2-3-1 is what I believe the best formation with the personnel we have. Solid back 4, let them cover each other, concentrate on being defenders first, play the ball second, if it aint on then hit channel and press higher up the pitch.

The 2 sitters, Barry is arguably our best passer, sit him in there with Livermore who is the 'runner'. Barry isn't going to play every game so he can be replaced with Morrison/Hoolahan, someone comfortable of getting on the ball and starting play.

The 3 infront: Phillips, Barnes, Sako - this is were the threat comes from, can even slot Rodriguez on the wing (same with Brunt) if you worried they might not get back and defend when needed.

Gayle up top.

That formation for me, makes us look and feel more solid, still gives us a threat going forward, but most importantly doesn't leave us short at the back. If a full back goes forward, we still have Barry/Livermore to sit infront of the defence.

Will Big Dave revert to this from the kick off - No. Will he react during the game when its too late (i.e Derby and also weekend just gone) Yes.

Yep....again makes sense to me.   The problem is when you take Gayle and Sakho out it looks like this

Dawson
Hegazi
Tosin
Gibbs

Barry
Livermore

Phillips
Barnes
JRod (although I'd like to see Edwards)

HRK

But that's very much me feeling sad about our options up front than a comment on the formation, which I would be happy with.

[Adder]

He has to go back to basics, but by going back to basics in a certain way he can continue to keep the 'attacking' threat there.

For example:

Dawson
Hegazi
Tosin
Gibbs

Barry
Livermore

Phillips
Barnes
Sako

Gayle

Playing 4-2-3-1 is what I believe the best formation with the personnel we have. Solid back 4, let them cover each other, concentrate on being defenders first, play the ball second, if it aint on then hit channel and press higher up the pitch.

The 2 sitters, Barry is arguably our best passer, sit him in there with Livermore who is the 'runner'. Barry isn't going to play every game so he can be replaced with Morrison/Hoolahan, someone comfortable of getting on the ball and starting play.

The 3 infront: Phillips, Barnes, Sako - this is were the threat comes from, can even slot Rodriguez on the wing (same with Brunt) if you worried they might not get back and defend when needed.

Gayle up top.

That formation for me, makes us look and feel more solid, still gives us a threat going forward, but most importantly doesn't leave us short at the back. If a full back goes forward, we still have Barry/Livermore to sit infront of the defence.

Will Big Dave revert to this from the kick off - No. Will he react during the game when its too late (i.e Derby and also weekend just gone) Yes.

The problem with that is it's still relying on a central 2 of Barry and Livermore - don't expect Barnes to drop in and make a 3 if we are getting outnumbered in there. This is our single biggest issue game in game out as far as I'm concerned....lack of ability to get control of the middle of the park.

[Atomic]

The problem with that is it's still relying on a central 2 of Barry and Livermore - don't expect Barnes to drop in and make a 3 if we are getting outnumbered in there. This is our single biggest issue game in game out as far as I'm concerned....lack of ability to get control of the middle of the park.

Excatly this Adder. I'm surprised by peoples team selection to see them still going with a two in the middle of the park.

Whatever we do, we must go three in central midfield. Harvey Barnes will not drop into there and I wouldn't want him to. by doing that we'd be losing our (at present) one potent threat.

[Oldbury24]

Excatly this Adder. I'm surprised by peoples team selection to see them still going with a two in the middle of the park.

Whatever we do, we must go three in central midfield. Harvey Barnes will not drop into there and I wouldn't want him to. by doing that we'd be losing our (at present) one potent threat.

So Darren Moore should play 4 - 3  - 2 - 1 ? Or 4 - 3 - 3 ?

[Atomic]

So Darren Moore should play 4 - 3  - 2 - 1 ? Or 4 - 3 - 3 ?

Or 4-5-1. There are slight variations but they're all fairly similar. With the players we have we need three in midfield.

[zippyandbungle]

                    Myhill

     Tosin    Livermore.   Barry.  Gibbs
                              (Bee gees 😀)

Phillips.     Field.     Morrison.   Sako
                   
              Barnes

                          Gayle

But if anyone is really nervous with the CBS , take out either, push tosin in , Edwards at RB , no one would want to defend against this team

[darbolina]

I'm waiting to see how Darren learns from the recent results. I don't think performances have been good all season overall but we got away with a few games through having some good firepower and over-powered a few teams. You can't go a whole season that way , especially leaking goals. I'd like to see more balance with a tighter system. We could play three centre backs if they had good distribution but ours generally don't. We end up playing a fairly static 5-3-2 because our midfield lacks energy and movement on the whole.

Surely this is fairly obvious?

[Mickyfudge]

Agree with atomic we must play three midfield players ,we are continually getting overrun, desperately need to stop this bad run somehow

[VVVAlbion]

Darren Moore is limited by the rubbish squad that we have assembled on the cheap and the requirement to change the way we play from the Pulisball dross that we have had served up for the last few seasons. Rome wasn't built in a day but the expectation is that it can be at a football club and maybe it can if you spend the money but not if you pick up players who nobody else want. There is definately an element that we have been found out, we have 3 or 4 players who can make a difference and if you mark them out the game the rest are limited or clueless. That isn't about Darren Moore, that is the squad and no change of coach is going to change that.

[Standaman]

I am going to make a few points in defence of the manager some of which are counter intuitive but bear with me.

The squad is on paper at least as good as any in the Championship. We can all look at the best players in other teams squads many of whom are on loan from Premier League clubs and go I wished he was here. The reality is if a player is of genuine quality they spend roughly a season in the Championship before moving on to the Premier League either through promotion or transfer but generally the squads are a mixed bag. There are plenty of Mears and Bartleys and worse out there.

Most of the players in the division were we to recruit would be dismissed by our underwhelmed fan base as "Championship player" (a strange criticism given we are in the championship) The Derby side we lost 1:4 to included Keogh,Malone, Waghorn and Carson (a player chased out of the Hawthorns and whose name to this day induces hilarity and fear in equal measure).

So in theory the manager should be doing better as should Rowett at Stoke who probably has a better squad than Moore has at least on paper.

Here is the rub the squad looks strong on paper (which was why punters backed us to 2nd favourite at the start of the season) but unfortunately it has a number of bad habits which we seem to regress into whenever we are under a bit of pressure. This is mainly manifests itself in an unwillingness to show for the ball. While this was bad under the Pulis set up it is practically suicidal when we are trying to pass through the midfield.

Ultimately there is a fragility about this squad and maybe we would have better clearing the decks more this summer but in reality there wasn't a queue of suitors for Phillips, Barry and Livermore etc...Even if there was we have degraded the recruitment department to such a degree that we weren't in a position to rebuild and had we we there would be an issue of anything up to 11 new recruits gelling as a unit.

Ultimately the challenges facing Darren would be the same for any manager and I am not sure we would get an obviously better outcome with any likely alternative. It is equally clear in my mind that we have to persevere with whoever we had appointed. Running through another couple managers trying to find one with a magic wand who to transform us into something a little less flakey is going to be counter productive.

Calls for Moore's dismissal are premature we are in transition and the our season will be hit and miss. The rebuild will continue to be hampered by the contractual legacy of the Premier League years but it will gather pace next summer.

   

[Atomic]

Darren Moore is limited by the rubbish squad that we have assembled on the cheap and the requirement to change the way we play from the Pulisball dross that we have had served up for the last few seasons. Rome wasn't built in a day but the expectation is that it can be at a football club and maybe it can if you spend the money but not if you pick up players who nobody else want. There is definately an element that we have been found out, we have 3 or 4 players who can make a difference and if you mark them out the game the rest are limited or clueless. That isn't about Darren Moore, that is the squad and no change of coach is going to change that.

If you look at the back of our matchday programme and compare our squad with our opponents ours is sizeable. It's all very well saying Moore is hampered by the squad he has but he has a far, far better squad than most clubs in the Championship, you could argue all clubs. We were awful at Hull on Saturday look at their squad and compare it to ours.

I know Graeme Jones is having a major influence on how we play but Darren Moore is HEAD coach he carries the can, he is ultimately responsible for what we do on the pitch. If he is being over-inflenced by Jones then he's not strong enough to be a head coach.

Yes, we had to change from Pulisball but now we've gone completely the other way no organisation, no solidity, no structure. It doesn't have to be one or the other i.e.e ultra pragmatic or no pragmatism there is a middle ground.

A lot of coaches would give their right arm for a squad like Albion's. Darren is making the job hard by playing the system he is and picking the players he is perfect example Brunt in CM.EVERYBODY can see that Brunt is not a CM.

What is concerning is that we seem to be getting worse rather than better. Following the showing at Hull I'd question whether the players have lost or are losing belief in what they are supposed to be doing.

The best we've played all season was the opening half an hour of the Coventry game in the pre season friendly (lower league opposition I know). We've gone a fair way backwards since then.

[Albionic]

I am going to make a few points in defence of the manager some of which are counter intuitive but bear with me.

The squad is on paper at least as good as any in the Championship. We can all look at the best players in other teams squads many of whom are on loan from Premier League clubs and go I wished he was here. The reality is if a player is of genuine quality they spend roughly a season in the Championship before moving on to the Premier League either through promotion or transfer but generally the squads are a mixed bag. There are plenty of Mears and Bartleys and worse out there.

Most of the players in the division were we to recruit would be dismissed by our underwhelmed fan base as "Championship player" (a strange criticism given we are in the championship) The Derby side we lost 1:4 to included Keogh,Malone, Waghorn and Carson (a player chased out of the Hawthorns and whose name to this day induces hilarity and fear in equal measure).

So in theory the manager should be doing better as should Rowett at Stoke who probably has a better squad than Moore has at least on paper.

Here is the rub the squad looks strong on paper (which was why punters backed us to 2nd favourite at the start of the season) but unfortunately it has a number of bad habits which we seem to regress into whenever we are under a bit of pressure. This is mainly manifests itself in an unwillingness to show for the ball. While this was bad under the Pulis set up it is practically suicidal when we are trying to pass through the midfield.

Ultimately there is a fragility about this squad and maybe we would have better clearing the decks more this summer but in reality there wasn't a queue of suitors for Phillips, Barry and Livermore etc...Even if there was we have degraded the recruitment department to such a degree that we weren't in a position to rebuild and had we we there would be an issue of anything up to 11 new recruits gelling as a unit.

Ultimately the challenges facing Darren would be the same for any manager and I am not sure we would get an obviously better outcome with any likely alternative. It is equally clear in my mind that we have to persevere with whoever we had appointed. Running through another couple managers trying to find one with a magic wand who to transform us into something a little less flakey is going to be counter productive.

Calls for Moore's dismissal are premature we are in transition and the our season will be hit and miss. The rebuild will continue to be hampered by the contractual legacy of the Premier League years but it will gather pace next summer.

I think the key factor is the first eleven on a man for man basis is one of the best BUT it’s a totally unbalanced squad with gaping holes in it, Darren has 7 very good players for this level and 4 well below par players. He has to make it up until the January window and then address the problems. It’s our job to get behind the team in the interim!