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Off Topic => General Football & Sports => Topic started by: Atomic on April 02, 2018, 12:27:06 PM

Title: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on April 02, 2018, 12:27:06 PM
Good luck Big Dave.

Don't think you get an easy ride though. I want to see youngsters like Sam Field and Oli Burke given starts and some of the old dead wood resigned to where they should be, bench at best.

I'm certainly not expecting Big Dave to pull up any trees with this lot but I want to see reasoning behind the decisions he makes and the youngsters being helped in their progression.

Everyone loves Big Dave so at least a small cloud has been lifted from over the place.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: swad35 on April 02, 2018, 12:32:00 PM
Goodluck big Dave. Can’t go wrong really, if he gets some results then that will do him and us no harm, if we lose last few games then that’s just fault of Pardew and Pulis. Might take some pressure of him and allow him to try some of the youngsters out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: koren on April 02, 2018, 12:32:20 PM
No pressure for him as going down is inevitable.
Hope he can choose the players who have passion to play for us and bring some freshness for the club.
Field should starts all remaining games in my opinion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiebof on April 02, 2018, 12:40:51 PM
Real difficult task for him in many ways as confidence is low, the squad is clearly unbalanced and with our position, there isn't any hope or motivation left in the squad by the looks of things. I'd also say that being part of a relatively small coaching staff under the Parted tenure, the players may even have tuned out of listening to Big Dave even.

On the other hand, he probably can't do much worse and could get some easy wins (moral victories with the fans, not actual football matches) by giving the youth a chance and playing a side with more balance than the back 5 and 2 holding midfielders we saw on Saturday.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on April 02, 2018, 01:15:52 PM
Good luck Big Dave
I hope he gets a few good results just to lift his spirits
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: dont ask me to choose luv on April 02, 2018, 01:28:23 PM
Fed to the lions or crucifixion?

Good luck big man, you're going to need it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dan on April 02, 2018, 01:34:33 PM
It's a pretty decent opportunity for him really, if he wants to go into management its a good experience. We're not only down but pretty much ensured to finish bottom and having lost 9 in a row nothing is going to reflect on him. At worst we carry on doing badly which isn't his fault, or we pick up a couple of decent results to end the season which reflects well on him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Avonbaggie on April 02, 2018, 01:37:42 PM
Maybe they want DM to play some of the youngsters so we have a better understanding of who might be playing in the Championship next season... No point picking the same old wasters
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 02, 2018, 01:40:22 PM
Maybe they want DM to play some of the youngsters so we have a better understanding of who might be playing in the Championship next season... No point picking the same old wasters
I doubt it but Big Dave Will Probably Tried out to See if they can get any of the Long Gone Fans Back to the Hawthorns and Get behind the team again now. I for one will be starting to Watch MOTD to get back behind us and See A Glimpse of Our Future Squad in the Championship So Lets Get Behind Him and The Lads COYB Lets Restore Sum Pride.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on April 02, 2018, 02:19:46 PM
Good luck big man,your going to need it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on April 02, 2018, 02:28:35 PM
Opportunity to put name in frame, hope he changes first team eleven. Good luck
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hardtobeat on April 02, 2018, 02:36:00 PM
Wish the big fella all the best will be interesting to see how much he is able to change both tactically and in terms of selection. Just wonder who is left to help him on the training pitch this week ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: alex1 on April 02, 2018, 02:38:29 PM
The board may want to have a look at Big Dave for the last 6 games, and see if he's suitable for the job. If they don't appoint him, they can always say, it was only a temporary appointment.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on April 02, 2018, 03:39:18 PM
If you get 1 win in the final 6 games you will be our most successful manager all season :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 02, 2018, 05:54:02 PM
If you get 1 win in the final 6 games you will be our most successful manager all season :)

HAHA!!!

My spirits unbelievably are lifted. Best of luck Big Dave, try and enjoy it, you know we are all behind you. You're Albion through and through and it's the only bit of joy I've felt all season. Go on big man.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on April 02, 2018, 05:56:50 PM
I haven't wanted him to be lumbered with it because of what happened to the guy Wolves appointed after Mick left. Think he stepped up from coach to oversee 12 games without a win.

I'd hate to see a similar thing happen here.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 02, 2018, 06:03:04 PM
If you get 1 win in the final 6 games you will be our most successful manager all season :)


He wouldn't.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on April 02, 2018, 06:04:10 PM
Cannot do any worse than AP good luck Big Dave!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on April 02, 2018, 06:07:53 PM

He wouldn't.

Mogadon !
Good luck Dave, take it as a free hit NO ONE will knock you for having a go, now its much too late!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 02, 2018, 06:18:25 PM
Mogadon !
Good luck Dave, take it as a free hit NO ONE will knock you for having a go, now its much too late!


If he also got 2 draws however...  8)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Sted1990 on April 02, 2018, 06:21:50 PM
Good luck big Dave but you have a lot to prove having assisted the last 2 managers you have to take some responsibility. I hope you get us a few wins to gear us up for the championship.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on April 02, 2018, 06:29:16 PM
Coaches are instructed by the management
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Sted1990 on April 02, 2018, 06:36:33 PM
Coaches are instructed by the management

Downing and Kiely got a disgusting amount of stick on here.
Downing is 10 Times the coach of many current and past coaches.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 02, 2018, 06:40:26 PM
Downing and Kiely got a disgusting amount of stick on here.
Downing is 10 Times the coach of many current and past coaches.


Downing got stick for undermining Pepe Mel. Nothing to do with ability it was his character that was found wanting.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Sted1990 on April 02, 2018, 06:42:57 PM

Downing got stick for undermining Pepe Mel. Nothing to do with ability it was his character that was found wanting.

Thank god he did jump in, do you not remember the Pepe Mel Lugano high line. Another manager out of his depth.

Huge summer ahead, we have to make the correct appointment.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Black Pearl on April 02, 2018, 06:46:28 PM
Good luck Darren, just getting back a little pride will be an achievement.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 02, 2018, 06:52:13 PM
Thank god he did jump in, do you not remember the Pepe Mel Lugano high line. Another manager out of his depth.

Huge summer ahead, we have to make the correct appointment.


No. It wasn't his job, he should have been supporting Mel to get his ideas across. A crass individual.


Back to Big Dave I wish him nothing but the best. 6 wins out of 6 should do it!  ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on April 02, 2018, 07:05:33 PM
Wish Moore all the best. These games are still vital in my eyes regardless of the fact that we are going down. We need to turn the mood so that we finish with at least some pride. Bagging a few points would set us up well for next season. We all saw how the form from the end of one season can affect the next...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Sted1990 on April 02, 2018, 07:10:30 PM

No. It wasn't his job, he should have been supporting Mel to get his ideas across. A crass individual.


Back to Big Dave I wish him nothing but the best. 6 wins out of 6 should do it!  ;D

You know him personally then? To know what kind of individual he is and what is intentions were. To me he wanted the best for our club.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: RowleyBaggie2 on April 02, 2018, 07:33:14 PM
If we lose every single game but approach them like Big Dave did as a player I'll be happy - all I want to see from now until May is players actually trying.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 02, 2018, 07:39:18 PM
If we lose every single game but approach them like Big Dave did as a player I'll be happy - all I want to see from now until May is players actually trying.

Spot on. Big Dave IS Albion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on April 02, 2018, 08:19:06 PM
He deserves better than this mob, can't see them responding to be honest. If they continue in the same couldn't care less vein, and disrespect a club legend and genuinely good bloke, then they really are scum. Unfortunately that's exactly what I expect.
Hope I'm wrong and Big Dave does enough to throw his hat in the ring. Would like nothing more than to see him in charge and successful for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boot2006 on April 02, 2018, 08:39:43 PM
Good luck "Big Dave'!!
6 wins from 6 and nothing less...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on April 02, 2018, 09:49:53 PM
Already looking forward to hearing his first interview.

Nothing but 100% of our backing, good luck Big Dave.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 02, 2018, 10:04:04 PM
He deserves better than this mob, can't see them responding to be honest. If they continue in the same couldn't care less vein, and disrespect a club legend and genuinely good bloke, then they really are scum. Unfortunately that's exactly what I expect.
Hope I'm wrong and Big Dave does enough to throw his hat in the ring. Would like nothing more than to see him in charge and successful for the foreseeable future.
If his nick name lives up to him as a Player I bloody well help he can say to these Useless idiots Along With Foster, Brunt, Dawson, G mace, Rincon and some of the youth That this how Albion used to be this is what you've turned it into Now If you give me the Same Gutless Performances there are to be changes when our new boss comes in or before the Season is out. I'm in charge your not.
Restore Sum Pride Darren Mate
Strip Evans of Captain make Brunt it please.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on April 02, 2018, 10:34:40 PM
He can't really lose can he? We're going down, so he won't get the blame when it does happen, but just suppose he pulls off one of the greatest of miracles, he will be an even bigger legend than he is now.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on April 02, 2018, 10:43:45 PM
He should be on the blower to sneekes, superbob, Darren Bradley et al
Get the crowd fired for starters

Then pick a team that fly out of the blocks and with a point to prove
Gmac,krykowiac,field, Burke,Yacob all in there

Livermore, Evans,myhill,Barry. Not in the squad but made to sit on the bench

On the bench I'd have chadli,Sturridge and Leko ......you can get yourselves the move/career you want , just give me 6 matches at 100%

We beat Swansea 3-0 ......then ..
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on April 02, 2018, 11:21:38 PM
All I hope is that Darren can restore a bit of dignity before the end of the season. He goes into this as an Albion legend and no matter what the outcome he will leave it undiminished. The Albion fans won't turn on "Big Dave" but those players had better show him a bit more respect than they did Pardew otherwise things will get ugly.

We aren't going to win 6 on the spin but a bit of pride wouldn't go amiss.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on April 02, 2018, 11:27:09 PM
All I hope is that Darren can restore a bit of dignity before the end of the season. He goes into this as an Albion legend and no matter what the outcome he will leave it undiminished. The Albion fans won't turn on "Big Dave" but those players had better show him a bit more respect than they did Pardew otherwise things will get ugly.

We aren't going to win 6 on the spin but a bit of pride wouldn't go amiss.

It would leave the board with an extremely difficult decision if we did win 6 on the spin.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on April 02, 2018, 11:29:33 PM
It would leave the board with an extremely difficult decision if we did win 6 on the spin.

Yeah which stand to name after him  and where to put the solid gold statue that he would deserve.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on April 02, 2018, 11:30:05 PM
Feel a bit sorry for Moore to be honest, only appointed first team coach when Pardew came and I don't see anyone around to help him with any experience. Hope it goes well for him but if it doesn't I hope no-one gets on his back and the players get a bit of what is deserved as this squad have seen off two managers this season (admittedly one who should have gone at the end of last season and one who should never have been appointed at all) so have played a massive part in the way this season has gone and need to have a good look at themselves in the mirror.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 02, 2018, 11:30:59 PM
Yeah which stand to name after him  and where to put the solid gold statue that he would deserve.


Brilliant post actually laughed out loud.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie38 on April 03, 2018, 05:50:24 AM
We could lose every game between now and the end of the season with Big Dave in charge and it wouldn't change a thing with regards to how we admire him and everything he has done for the club. Hopefully seeing him in the dugout will get the fans on side a little bit and give him a taster of first team management. I wish him nothing but the very best of luck.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 03, 2018, 08:39:56 AM
Feel a bit sorry for Moore to be honest, only appointed first team coach when Pardew came and I don't see anyone around to help him with any experience. Hope it goes well for him but if it doesn't I hope no-one gets on his back and the players get a bit of what is deserved as this squad have seen off two managers this season (admittedly one who should have gone at the end of last season and one who should never have been appointed at all) so have played a massive part in the way this season has gone and need to have a good look at themselves in the mirror.
Maybe Brunt could help him
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on April 03, 2018, 08:47:57 AM
He can't really lose can he? We're going down, so he won't get the blame when it does happen, but just suppose he pulls off one of the greatest of miracles, he will be an even bigger legend than he is now.

Agree with you. Nothing is expected of him, but if he can give us a bit of pride and self respect back then that would be good. Realistically he could win two games and he would end the season with a better win ratio that the previous two clowns......and that will do for me.

He is a legend anyway.....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Trigger on April 03, 2018, 09:21:01 AM
Maybe we can see if megson can come back and support him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kc56wba on April 03, 2018, 09:25:10 AM
Good Luck Darren you are going to need it mate. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on April 03, 2018, 11:44:24 AM
Whatever happens the next six games Big Dave will always be a legend and has more pride and integrity than a lot of our squad put together.

Sadly i have no faith in the bunch of wasters doing anything different to what they did under Pulis and Pardew, i expect us to lose with a whimper with little or no pride shown, the rot is set in too deep and i expect them to let Big Dave down with gutless performances.

Fortunately i think the fans have now seen through them, we know we are going down and i hope as we now entering a new era with hopefully lots of the mercenaries gone, hopefully the support will be funny, positive and let the decent ones in our squad as well as Big Dave know the respect we have for them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: dan7heman on April 03, 2018, 07:33:02 PM
If they can’t try for this fella, then they should be ashamed of themselves. Just show us you give the tiniest sh!7.

All the best Big Dave, love you to earn the job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Greenock Baggie on April 03, 2018, 10:56:20 PM
This poor sod is on a hiding to nothing......do we really think that this bunch who have no self respect, no respect for 2 experienced managers.....are going to have any respect for someone they'd probably never heard of before coming to WBA who has no managerial experience at all........and bear in mind these 'players' know they are already relegated....despite what the head-in-the-sand may think !!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on April 03, 2018, 11:14:42 PM
This poor sod is on a hiding to nothing......do we really think that this bunch who have no self respect, no respect for 2 experienced managers.....are going to have any respect for someone they'd probably never heard of before coming to WBA who has no managerial experience at all........and bear in mind these 'players' know they are already relegated....despite what the head-in-the-sand may think !!!
He could not pick said players for starters
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Greenock Baggie on April 03, 2018, 11:20:27 PM
He could not pick said players for starters
We'd be playing 5 a side if he didnt !!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on April 03, 2018, 11:29:49 PM
We'd be playing 5 a side if he didnt !!!
Lol, not quite that bad. Would certainly leave out Barry, Livermore, Myhill, Evans, and then pick whoever he likes and whoever seems up for it. I think most of us at this stage would be happy with some genuine sweat breaking effort. All the fans will be 100 percent behind big Dave. He should ascertain who really wants to play for us next season and pick the side from them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wigmore on April 03, 2018, 11:48:33 PM
This poor sod is on a hiding to nothing......do we really think that this bunch who have no self respect, no respect for 2 experienced managers.....are going to have any respect for someone they'd probably never heard of before coming to WBA who has no managerial experience at all........and bear in mind these 'players' know they are already relegated....despite what the head-in-the-sand may think !!!
Why have you tarred all of the squad with the same brush?
What a sweeping statement, "...have no self respect"!
I'm confident that some of the players, including some of the 'old lags' and the kids will respond to DM.
The young players will know him very well, and I doubt there is any lack of respect in those relationships.
I fully understand that the club is in a parlous position, but not everything should be viewed through such a pessimistic lens.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 04, 2018, 12:16:10 AM
If anyone can galvanise team spirit it's Big Dave.

I don't give a monkey's now about results, it's over anyway. I just hope DM enjoys his time to the end of the season and learns some stuff. Bloke could do no wrong in my eyes anyway.

Boing Boing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie38 on April 04, 2018, 05:27:46 AM
I smiled watching the footage of Big Dave taking training that the club uploaded to Twitter yesterday. Honestly couldn't be happier for the bloke and after seeing nothing but dinosaurs in the dugout this season it's refreshing to see one of our own who has the club's best interests at heart there.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on April 04, 2018, 06:26:21 AM
I'm sure Big Dave will give the last six games his heart and soul.
No point in being concerned over the results, I hope he can get a couple of results between now and the end of the season just to give him a boost
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on April 04, 2018, 08:55:06 AM
I feel sorry for Big Dave getting left in this situation.

Clearly a lovely bloke, but a manager he’s not. Just hope it doesn’t tarnish his reputation and memories of him as a player here with folk.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: nick_wba on April 04, 2018, 09:05:07 AM
I feel sorry for Big Dave getting left in this situation.

Clearly a lovely bloke, but a manager he’s not. Just hope it doesn’t tarnish his reputation and memories of him as a player here with folk.

On what basis have you come to that conclusion?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wigmore on April 04, 2018, 10:20:30 AM
I feel sorry for Big Dave getting left in this situation.

Clearly a lovely bloke, but a manager he’s not. Just hope it doesn’t tarnish his reputation and memories of him as a player here with folk.

How on earth can his reputation be tarnished?? We all know how he came to be given the role. We all know who got us in this mess, and it isn't him!
I think you should head up to the Palm training ground and tell him to his face he is not a manager. Good luck! ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on April 04, 2018, 12:31:45 PM
Do I think the squad who couldn't "do it" on Cyrille Regis day will perform to show respect for Big Dave ??

sadly not !

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Greenock Baggie on April 04, 2018, 01:25:44 PM
Do I think the squad who couldn't "do it" on Cyrille Regis day will perform to show respect for Big Dave ??

sadly not !
My thoughts exactly. Yes it may seem pessimistic but I've watched us over the last 2 year and had any optimism kicked out of me. !! I wish Big Dave all the best because he is going to need it !!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on April 04, 2018, 01:29:51 PM
If anyone can galvanise team spirit it's Big Dave.
We'll have to see. Looking at it dispassionately, it doesn't necessarily follow that his wholeheartedness as a player will translate into him being a great coach. Having no meaningful help on the coaching front will make it even more difficult for him as well.

I'll be fascinated to see who he picks for the Swansea game, what tactics he uses and how the side as a whole responds.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on April 04, 2018, 02:20:54 PM
We're into damage limitation stage and Big Dave is there in my view to appease fans as much as he's there to shepherd the team to the end of the season.

Big Dave was an inspirational player but he has the sort of task even some of the World's best coaches would struggle to improve. It's not as thought he can make a few tackles or headers to raise the fans and he's relying on players who've shown they're not @rsed and are likely already looking to their next clubs/ way to maintain their extortionate wages.

I honestly struggle to see this team picking up more than 3 points in the remaining games (three hard won draws rather than 1 win).

I'd love to be surprised..........
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: MarkW on April 04, 2018, 02:31:30 PM
Like many others have said, he will have the fans backing. There's only one Big Dave afterall.

My hope is his experience working with the youth setup means he will put his trust in them. We have nothing to lose by giving them game-time and it will be good experience for years ahead, regardless of whether they make it with us or leave.

Despite the current crop coming through supposedly being the best we've produced so far, only Berahino has broken into the first team regularly. If you don't give players chances on the pitch, they won't improve and we, the fans, will always be in the dark as to their ability.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on April 04, 2018, 04:05:26 PM
We're into damage limitation stage and Big Dave is there in my view to appease fans as much as he's there to shepherd the team to the end of the season.

Big Dave was an inspirational player but he has the sort of task even some of the World's best coaches would struggle to improve. It's not as thought he can make a few tackles or headers to raise the fans and he's relying on players who've shown they're not @rsed and are likely already looking to their next clubs/ way to maintain their extortionate wages.

I honestly struggle to see this team picking up more than 3 points in the remaining games (three hard won draws rather than 1 win).

I'd love to be surprised..........
This is the only logic to sacking Pardew now, they could sense the fans were turning, or staying away altogether, and were trying to keep the peace. Could backfire though as, whilst Big Dave will galvanise the fans, if the players disrespect him by turning up with their "couldn't give a sh!te" attitude, then it will be them that they turn on. Could get ugly.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on April 04, 2018, 05:34:32 PM
Despite the current crop coming through supposedly being the best we've produced so far, only Berahino has broken into the first team regularly. If you don't give players chances on the pitch, they won't improve and we, the fans, will always be in the dark as to their ability.

Now we're in the Championship we should see more of the younger players.  It's a lot tougher trying to break into a mid table Prem side than it is a mid table Championship side.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on April 05, 2018, 01:09:28 PM
Question:

If he wins 4/5 of our remaining fixtures would you back him for the job full time?

A mate of mine is a Bournemouth fan and is completely bought into the way Bournemouth do things, and that is filling the club with 'Bournemouth people' all with one ethos. They have a one club philosophy and he expects that Howe would be replaced with one of the coaches working under him when he is poached.

So he questioned me, along those above lines, that if we are looking to build a project/system/structure/philosophy - whatever you want to call it, why wouldn't you give the job To Big Dave if he proves that he has something about him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on April 05, 2018, 01:12:29 PM
Question:

If he wins 4/5 of our remaining fixtures would you back him for the job full time?

A mate of mine is a Bournemouth fan and is completely bought into the way Bournemouth do things, and that is filling the club with 'Bournemouth people' all with one ethos. They have a one club philosophy and he expects that Howe would be replaced with one of the coaches working under him when he is poached.

So he questioned me, along those above lines, that if we are looking to build a project/system/structure/philosophy - whatever you want to call it, why wouldn't you give the job To Big Dave if he proves that he has something about him.


If he wins 4 or 5 games with this lot he should get a knighthood.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: MarkW on April 05, 2018, 01:17:35 PM
Now we're in the Championship we should see more of the younger players.  It's a lot tougher trying to break into a mid table Prem side than it is a mid table Championship side.

While that is true, I still think we need a strong, experienced core of players. We can't put put out a team of kids every week and hope to get promoted. But with the extra game, squad rotation is key so they may get their chance when we're playing our 4th game in 13 days
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 05, 2018, 01:34:41 PM
We'll Still have Brunt, Yacob, G-Mac (Possibly), Dawson (Hopefully), Foster (Hopefully) and Robson (Hopefully) to provide the Youth With Experience Not Forgetting Matt Phillips who has Experience at this level and might come good and J-Rod as well But we need more Players to help with the youth as well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: MarkW on April 05, 2018, 02:14:12 PM
Very true. You'd want to pair the younger player with a more experienced one, e.g. Field next to Yacob in midfield.

Anyway, going back to Big Dave, he has my full support for the rest of the season, and I hope to see some changes, though I am prepared for more of the same if I'm honest
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wimbledon baggie on April 05, 2018, 02:29:40 PM
Wish Darren Moore all the very best with zero pressure or expectation.

He is in a difficult position as the role of coach is very different to that of manager. Coaching is just trying to improve all the players and work on different formations etc. Managing means dropping some players, promoting others so he cant keep everyone happy. Be very interesting to see who he picks as captain and which players he leaves out.

Hope you get some reaction from this underperforming lot big man!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on April 05, 2018, 02:39:22 PM

If he wins 4 or 5 games with this lot he should get a knighthood.
If he wins 2 he will have done better than 2 "Established" Premier League managers.
If he wins 4 or 5 he should indeed get a knighthood plus the freedom of West Bromwich, drinks for life at the Star and Garter and first pick of the clobber on the market!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on April 05, 2018, 02:43:00 PM
If he wins 2 he will have done better than 2 "Established" Premier League managers.
If he wins 4 or 5 he should indeed get a knighthood plus the freedom of West Bromwich, drinks for life at the Star and Garter and first pick of the clobber on the market!

The Star and Garter closed down some time ago you cheapskate  ;D .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BB74 on April 05, 2018, 02:57:12 PM
While that is true, I still think we need a strong, experienced core of players. We can't put put out a team of kids every week and hope to get promoted. But with the extra game, squad rotation is key so they may get their chance when we're playing our 4th game in 13 days

You won't win anything with kids  ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on April 05, 2018, 03:07:25 PM
The Star and Garter closed down some time ago you cheapskate  ;D .
The Sportsman then, throw in some Chicken Tikka!  :P
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on April 05, 2018, 04:09:10 PM
The Sportsman then, throw in some Chicken Tikka!  :P

Big Dave eats Pot Noodles, don't you know nothing ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on April 05, 2018, 04:10:55 PM
Maybe Brunt could help him

I meant coaching experience, Brunt has none plus along with the rest of the playing staff is one part of the reason we are in this mess
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on April 05, 2018, 06:58:49 PM
I meant coaching experience, Brunt has none plus along with the rest of the playing staff is one part of the reason we are in this mess

As much as I've defended Nick Hammond, I'd be really disappointed if he didn't help Darren Moore during this period between now & end of season. Especially if, as others have said, a DoF is a wannabe Head Coach.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 05, 2018, 07:41:34 PM
I meant coaching experience, Brunt has none plus along with the rest of the playing staff is one part of the reason we are in this mess
Oh well Long He May Return And Long He May Stay Sir Garry We need you to help Big Dave out
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on April 05, 2018, 10:27:09 PM
To be honest it is about salvaging a little bit of dignity and that might just be avoiding 6 straight defeats. I would not have blamed Darren in the slightest if he politely declined to pick this up but that is not how the guy rolls so I hope it doesn't go too badly for him.

Darren Moore goes into this as legend and he will come out of it still a legend. Those players who feel like disrespecting him better get ready from serious grief because the fans will not direct any anger or frustration at Darren so that just leaves the collection of overpaid has beens and never wozzers in the firing line.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 06, 2018, 06:29:57 PM
You won't win anything with kids  ;)

Only just read that. Brilliant.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on April 06, 2018, 08:30:23 PM
I think his team selection will reflect whoever has applied the most this past week. Don't think he'll pull any punches or try and be a tactical genius.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 06, 2018, 09:21:57 PM
Just hopes he can at least make the team play with a bit of Passion Not Expecting him to win just make them play with Passion and if they don't they have Disrespected the great man and shows how they couldn't give a Damn
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Jimmy on April 06, 2018, 10:30:41 PM
Come on big Dave, I believe in you.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on April 07, 2018, 04:48:49 AM
Do your best Daz, and don't let those muppets win the day.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie38 on April 07, 2018, 06:06:06 AM
We could lose every game between now and the end of the season and I would still love this bloke. Wishing him nothing but the very best of luck. Who knows he may throw his hat into the ring to become our new head coach on a full time basis.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on April 07, 2018, 08:50:16 AM
We could lose every game between now and the end of the season and I would still love this bloke. Wishing him nothing but the very best of luck. Who knows he may throw his hat into the ring to become our new head coach on a full time basis.
But this once again shows why sentiment is an issue, what if he plays 442 against a 5 man midfield (like Pardew) what if he picks the same starting 11 that Pardew was picking...
Surely he needs to do/try different so he keeps his status ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on April 07, 2018, 08:59:36 AM
But this once again shows why sentiment is an issue, what if he plays 442 against a 5 man midfield (like Pardew) what if he picks the same starting 11 that Pardew was picking...
Surely he needs to do/try different so he keeps his status ?

I was thinking about this yesterday. I wouldn't be surprised if he went with a 3 at the back formation, he played in one under Megson.

I also think, while it's mathematically possible to stay up, he will go for experience. I'm not expecting to see too many personnel changes today.

On the other hand, I do expect to see a more positive attitude from the players.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 07, 2018, 10:14:11 AM
Not wanting a Win today but The Players just to shoes a bit of Fight for Big Dave Come on Big Dave good luck Son
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BB74 on April 07, 2018, 11:06:23 AM
For the younger ones who maybe don’t know where the Big Dave nickname comes from.

https://youtu.be/Pd3VQ0gpil8 (https://youtu.be/Pd3VQ0gpil8)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: east-stand-nick on April 07, 2018, 11:09:47 AM
For the younger ones who maybe don’t know where the Big Dave nickname comes from.

https://youtu.be/Pd3VQ0gpil8 (https://youtu.be/Pd3VQ0gpil8)

THAT'S where it comes from! Now I know :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggies_24 on April 07, 2018, 11:15:59 AM
Come on big Dave I hope those bunch of premaddona’s show you the respect you deserve.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on April 07, 2018, 11:38:50 AM
Big Dave is blameless in all of this and I will be cheering him on this afternoon.  Expectations though are still for me very low.  Anything above six straight defeats between now and the season end would be a plus.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on April 07, 2018, 03:38:43 PM
Big Dave is blameless in all of this and I will be cheering him on this afternoon.  Expectations though are still for me very low.  Anything above six straight defeats between now and the season end would be a plus.
He I said not
He has picked Livermore and brunt in central midfield, we know this doesn't work
He has picked a midfield 4 against a 5 , Pardew got slated for same
He has not changed the team to inject impetus

There really was only one man to come in for the last 6, SGM
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on April 07, 2018, 05:31:57 PM
Firstly, loved DM as a player and 2001/02 was my favourite WBA team of all time, simply for what was achieved.  Seems to be a really good guy in general too.

However, today to pick Brunt central / Mclean wide in a 4-4-2.  Seriously come on, 5 days on the training ground and that's the best he could do?

He's been there all season and every time Barry or Brunt are picked in that system we struggle.  And I still say Barry/Brunt can be effective in a 5, so not picking on them personally.  Burke has showed some promise recently and he's left out in favour of McLean? 

I guess Chadli/Belgium manager will dictate to WBA if/when he's selected not the other way around.

I don't see us winning any of the last 5 as that was by far the easiest fixture on paper.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on April 07, 2018, 05:56:51 PM
Big Dave should have made more changes in starting line-up and  team needed freshing up second half. Whole sale changes needed in summer.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on April 08, 2018, 09:37:39 AM
Big Dave should have made more changes in starting line-up and  team needed freshing up second half. Whole sale changes needed in summer.

100% Sure you will get your wish has i'd say up to 8 players will jump ship & their agents are more than likely looking for new births for them has i type.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on April 08, 2018, 09:45:58 AM
I genuinely believe he picked the XI who would have applied themselves best in training this week. That was my hope pre-game and I think that's what it was post-XI. You want to start, you have to earn it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on April 08, 2018, 09:46:08 AM
What a clueless selection yesterday. Negative and brain dead. Why not play the youngsters, why no subs yesterday save for Greg for J-Rod. Unbelievable the way he set us up. Clearly part of the problem and needs to go.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on April 08, 2018, 09:56:41 AM
Lets just remember that Big Dave didn't chose to be in the position he is in, and his team selection may well have been driven by the players themselves. I would like to see the youngsters thrown in but had he have done that yesterday, and we got a good trousering, then what would be all saying on here today? Had it not be for a bit of dilly dallying on the ball by CB then it could have been an unspectacular win, but its pointless criticising Big Dave for the selection, he is just doing what is asked of him whilst a new manager is appointed.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on April 08, 2018, 10:01:01 AM
People say youngsters..Field was injured . Leko & harper both didn't get regular game time on loan either ..
First point in 9....that's a good start for Moore. The point proves it was a good team to get a point. We lost 8 in a row..
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kc56wba on April 08, 2018, 10:01:32 AM
Lets just remember that Big Dave didn't chose to be in the position he is in, and his team selection may well have been driven by the players themselves. I would like to see the youngsters thrown in but had he have done that yesterday, and we got a good trousering, then what would be all saying on here today? Had it not be for a bit of dilly dallying on the ball by CB then it could have been an unspectacular win, but its pointless criticising Big Dave for the selection, he is just doing what is asked of him whilst a new manager is appointed.

Very true Kev cant understanding the bashing Big Dave is getting on here and other places.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: koren on April 08, 2018, 10:09:18 AM
Chadli and Field were not fit yesterday. Otherwise I think they would be included in the squad.
It's too early to say Moore's team selection is negative.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 08, 2018, 10:35:49 AM
What a clueless selection yesterday. Negative and brain dead. Why not play the youngsters, why no subs yesterday save for Greg for J-Rod. Unbelievable the way he set us up. Clearly part of the problem and needs to go.

One game in charge, gets us a point (even three would not be enough now, probably 18 wouldn't) and we're trigger happy. Turning on one of our greats too. Amazing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on April 08, 2018, 10:52:40 AM
Big Dave's hands could be tied with regards selection of team God knows what stipulations are in contracts but he should have used his bench.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on April 08, 2018, 11:08:28 AM
I would have been nervous of making any substitutions yesterday. There was a very clear synergy between the players on the pitch. I suspect they had been working on it all week.
Until CB's error I had us winning that match all day.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on April 08, 2018, 11:33:51 AM
We need to remember that Darren Moore is looking after things that's all. I think there is zero chance of him being considered for the head coach role so all he can really do is keep things ticking over and try and get the odd result.

He also has no experience of being the main man anywhere and this experience will be good for him in the long term.

Lay off him.The mess we're in isn't his fault.

If this season ended tomorrow it wouldn't be a day too soon.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: letmereadposts on April 08, 2018, 12:51:48 PM
We need to remember that Darren Moore is looking after things that's all. I think there is zero chance of him being considered for the head coach role so all he can really do is keep things ticking over and try and get the odd result.

He also has no experience of being the main man anywhere and this experience will be good for him in the long term.

Lay off him.The mess we're in isn't his fault.


If this season ended tomorrow it wouldn't be a day too soon.

Agreed, not a great team selection yesterday but this is a thankless task he's taken on.

We have someone who truly cares about the club, we need to remember this.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on April 08, 2018, 01:00:26 PM
Leko couldn't get into the Bristol City side. I'm all for giving youngster a chance but let them earn and deserve that chance not go throwing anybody into the first team on a whim. Think it's sets a poor precedent irrespective of how bad we have been playing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 08, 2018, 01:10:59 PM
If Darren Moore had a Fully Fit Squad to Pick from Yesterday He Probably would have Played Chadli, Field and The Youth Probably is Albion don't have Strength in Numbers and I actually thought Yesterday he did well Got a Point and Made The lads play with Intent after our Steak just wanted we needed
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on April 09, 2018, 12:35:30 AM
What a clueless selection yesterday. Negative and brain dead. Why not play the youngsters, why no subs yesterday save for Greg for J-Rod. Unbelievable the way he set us up. Clearly part of the problem and needs to go.

I assume this is a joke and not a serious post...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: colinmax on April 09, 2018, 06:48:54 AM
DM is a great bloke but failed his first test.
We could still possibly avoid relegation.The odds must be thousands to one but to do so we must basically win every match.
In view of this how on earth could he make the decision to remove our leading goalscorer and replace him with a player who has not scored for the club when we needed a goal to win?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on April 09, 2018, 07:05:27 AM
It is not a test it isn't an opportunity for Darren to throw his name into the ring all it is him looking after a mess doing the best that he can with a horrible situation which was created by 2 coaches far more experienced than him neither of whom were capable of resolving the issues he is currently dealing with.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on April 09, 2018, 07:06:26 AM
DM is a great bloke but failed his first test.
We could still possibly avoid relegation.The odds must be thousands to one but to do so we must basically win every match.
In view of this how on earth could he make the decision to remove our leading goalscorer and replace him with a player who has not scored for the club when we needed a goal to win?

So let me get this right, after the horrendous season we have had with two excuses for head coaches, DM has failed his first test by not winning his first game with a side that has only won three all season? And you seriously expect him to find Champions League form for the remaining games? We were down weeks ago when we failed to get anything from 5 very winnable games.

DM has nothing to prove, he did not apply for the job and has not promised anything. He is the caretaker coach until the end of the season. Many of the players seem to be going through the motions and will not be there next season. Relegation is required to get rid of a lot of the champagne charlies, both on and off the pitch.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on April 09, 2018, 07:10:55 AM
If Brunty had put his foot through that ball in the corner instead of fannying around we wouldn't be having a negative conversation about Big Dave.
I think Big Dave knows himself he's not ready to step up and take charge, he has a lot to learn about the other side of the game.
But give the bloke credit for having a go.
If 50 of us managed the team for one game there would probably 50 different teams/formations put out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on April 09, 2018, 07:21:50 AM
If Brunty had put his foot through that ball in the corner instead of fannying around we wouldn't be having a negative conversation about Big Dave.
I think Big Dave knows himself he's not ready to step up and take charge, he has a lot to learn about the other side of the game.
But give the bloke credit for having a go.
If 50 of us managed the team for one game there would probably 50 different teams/formations put out.

But he still set up 4-4-2 with Brunt centre-mid and McLean wing!

We’ve been outgunned many many times through midfield in 1718 with when teams break on us at speed.  So he showed he’s learnt next to nothing.

Too pally with the players and not wanting to upset the applecart, maybe?

Problem is our defenders have all performed well (Apart from Nyom).  You could argue Rondon / Rodriguez both deserve to start.

Go back though to 1617, we were always better set up 4-5-1.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on April 09, 2018, 07:51:39 AM
It is not a test it isn't an opportunity for Darren to throw his name into the ring all it is him looking after a mess doing the best that he can with a horrible situation which was created by 2 coaches far more experienced than him neither of whom were capable of resolving the issues he is currently dealing with.
Agree entirely with this, too many people are reading into this as a trial for Darren, for the job on a permanent basis. No such thing more likely a Downing type role, to ensure continuity when a Manager moves on.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: colinmax on April 09, 2018, 08:42:31 AM
It has nothing to do with football it was a matter of common sense that we needed a goal if we wanted to win and you do not take off your main goal scorer (who incidentally was having a good game)and replace him with a player who has never scored for the team.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on April 09, 2018, 08:55:30 AM
I think as Manager/Head Coach you should just pick the best 11 in the best formation and that's whether you have a 6 game or 6 year contract. 

You can't keep all the players happy.  But those are the demands of the role.  So if you're not capable of making those tough decisions maybe you are just a Club Coach after all.

Who knows what Darren Moore learnt from previous Managers such as Pardew?  What he needs to do is be himself and develop his own style.

My own view is that too many senior players are too ingrained in the decision making themselves.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on April 09, 2018, 09:28:39 AM
I think as Manager/Head Coach you should just pick the best 11 in the best formation and that's whether you have a 6 game or 6 year contract. 

Couldn't disagree more. There are a number of factors that influence team selection and it is nowhere near as cut and dried as that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on April 09, 2018, 09:38:41 AM
But he still set up 4-4-2 with Brunt centre-mid and McLean wing!

We’ve been outgunned many many times through midfield in 1718 with when teams break on us at speed.  So he showed he’s learnt next to nothing.

Too pally with the players and not wanting to upset the applecart, maybe?

Problem is our defenders have all performed well (Apart from Nyom).  You could argue Rondon / Rodriguez both deserve to start.

Go back though to 1617, we were always better set up 4-5-1.

I didn't see us as being out gunned, and Nyom did OK (apart from most of his passes are backwards, and he left Phillips a little exposed at times)
Brunty had a decent game apart from the balls up clearance.
The only mistake was taking Rodriguez off and putting Greg on, I thought for all the world he would have taken Phillips off and given Burke a run.
Just want this season over now and look to a fresh start for 18/19
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on April 09, 2018, 09:54:55 AM
I didn't see us as being out gunned, and Nyom did OK (apart from most of his passes are backwards, and he left Phillips a little exposed at times)
Brunty had a decent game apart from the balls up clearance.
The only mistake was taking Rodriguez off and putting Greg on, I thought for all the world he would have taken Phillips off and given Burke a run.
Just want this season over now and look to a fresh start for 18/19

just was talking about the season as a whole not a poor team like Swansea.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on April 09, 2018, 10:00:31 AM
just was talking about the season as a whole not a poor team like Swansea.

So therefore there was no reason why he shouldn't have set the team up the way he did.
His original team and set up cannot be criticised, we know the squad has limitations.
Only criticism I have is he made a poor choice on subs.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on April 09, 2018, 10:04:55 AM
I think Saturday went some way to proving what we all knew already, that big Dave is not management material...currently, but then it is not by his choice that he is in this position so I certainly will not criticise him for it.

Brunt in central midfield in a midfield trio is a bad idea, to play him there in a midfield two is just utterly ridiculous. Thankfully Swansea set up in a bizarrely negative fashion and didn't look to exploit the poor team selection so it at least stopped the rot.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on April 09, 2018, 10:32:39 AM
I think as others have said i think the team was probably selected on what happened that week during training.

Once we scored we showed small signs that we were starting to play with a bit of confidence, then Brunt didnt clear it, Livermore got out muscled and Swansea score, its happened loads this season, all the managers and coaches in the world cant allow for individual errors.

Although i wouldnt of made the sub Big Dave did i can see the logic to it, how many times have we thrown away the lead this season, soon as it got to 1-1 our mentality shows that previously we go on to lose, i imagine at that point Big Dave thinks just take the point and end the run of defeats, Greg can help the midfield a bit more and it just tightens it up.

Personally i would of put Burke or Leko on because we were very 'safe' we played sideways and backwards a lot, when your ten points adrift, won three all season, havent won for three months and on your fourth manager of the season confidence is low and nobody wants to be the one to take a risk incase they lose the ball and we concede.

A Burke or Leko would of run at them, lose the ball loads but also gave them something to think about now and again and possibly create something too but i think breaking the run of defeats was the order for saturday and that was done, I imagine once relegation is confirmed then we will see more of the fringe players and youngsters.

Regarding Big Dave, i have no idea if his management / coaching persona is different to the public one but my worry for him as a manager would be he is too nice a bloke! Most (not all) managers have a bit of an edge to them and he just doesnt seem that sort, everyone loves Big Dave, he is just a top bloke but i dont know if that would be the same when your having to drop seasoned pro's, dealing with unhappy non playing members, tell them they are not getting contracts, etc.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on April 09, 2018, 01:52:31 PM
I think as others have said i think the team was probably selected on what happened that week during training.

Once we scored we showed small signs that we were starting to play with a bit of confidence, then Brunt didnt clear it, Livermore got out muscled and Swansea score, its happened loads this season, all the managers and coaches in the world cant allow for individual errors.

Although i wouldnt of made the sub Big Dave did i can see the logic to it, how many times have we thrown away the lead this season, soon as it got to 1-1 our mentality shows that previously we go on to lose, i imagine at that point Big Dave thinks just take the point and end the run of defeats, Greg can help the midfield a bit more and it just tightens it up.

Personally i would of put Burke or Leko on because we were very 'safe' we played sideways and backwards a lot, when your ten points adrift, won three all season, havent won for three months and on your fourth manager of the season confidence is low and nobody wants to be the one to take a risk incase they lose the ball and we concede.

A Burke or Leko would of run at them, lose the ball loads but also gave them something to think about now and again and possibly create something too but i think breaking the run of defeats was the order for saturday and that was done, I imagine once relegation is confirmed then we will see more of the fringe players and youngsters.

Regarding Big Dave, i have no idea if his management / coaching persona is different to the public one but my worry for him as a manager would be he is too nice a bloke! Most (not all) managers have a bit of an edge to them and he just doesnt seem that sort, everyone loves Big Dave, he is just a top bloke but i dont know if that would be the same when your having to drop seasoned pro's, dealing with unhappy non playing members, tell them they are not getting contracts, etc.

Exactly.  You could forsee a scenario where the senior players would surround him demanding they play against Swansea and he's almost just taken that on board and said yes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on April 09, 2018, 01:55:27 PM
I think as others have said i think the team was probably selected on what happened that week during training.

Once we scored we showed small signs that we were starting to play with a bit of confidence, then Brunt didnt clear it, Livermore got out muscled and Swansea score, its happened loads this season, all the managers and coaches in the world cant allow for individual errors.

Although i wouldnt of made the sub Big Dave did i can see the logic to it, how many times have we thrown away the lead this season, soon as it got to 1-1 our mentality shows that previously we go on to lose, i imagine at that point Big Dave thinks just take the point and end the run of defeats, Greg can help the midfield a bit more and it just tightens it up.

Personally i would of put Burke or Leko on because we were very 'safe' we played sideways and backwards a lot, when your ten points adrift, won three all season, havent won for three months and on your fourth manager of the season confidence is low and nobody wants to be the one to take a risk incase they lose the ball and we concede.

A Burke or Leko would of run at them, lose the ball loads but also gave them something to think about now and again and possibly create something too but i think breaking the run of defeats was the order for saturday and that was done, I imagine once relegation is confirmed then we will see more of the fringe players and youngsters.

Regarding Big Dave, i have no idea if his management / coaching persona is different to the public one but my worry for him as a manager would be he is too nice a bloke! Most (not all) managers have a bit of an edge to them and he just doesnt seem that sort, everyone loves Big Dave, he is just a top bloke but i dont know if that would be the same when your having to drop seasoned pro's, dealing with unhappy non playing members, tell them they are not getting contracts, etc.


But Krychowiak didn't go into the midfield he went up front alongside Rondon.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on April 09, 2018, 02:02:17 PM
So therefore there was no reason why he shouldn't have set the team up the way he did.
His original team and set up cannot be criticised, we know the squad has limitations. 
Only criticism I have is he made a poor choice on subs.

What are you talking about?

Virtually all season we have been overrun in midfield, coming across teams with players not only more skilful but more athletic.  A combination of the 2 if you like.  In the short term, the only way to combat that is play with a 5 man midfield and try and squeeze the game.  In the longer term, it is buying in more athletic/skilful midfield players to replace some of the duds we've got currently.

It's a good job Swansea had an off-day.  That was the same template used for Southampton (H)x2 / Huddersfield (H) / Leicester (H) and many more.  If that way Pardew or any other Boss he'd have been criticised on that selection.  I'm not really criticising the players, it's Brunt in that position now but it was Barry previously.

I'm just amazed that people involved in football for such a long time can't see it.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on April 09, 2018, 03:30:44 PM
I think Greg was playing as an attacking midfielder / number 10 role rather than an out and out striker, he seemed to be behind Rondon then trying to burst through.

I think if he had put Yacob on it would of almost admitted we had settled for a point, if he had put Burke or Leko on (which i would of done) it may of left us open to conceding a goal and losing again, with Greg i thought it was somewhere in between the two above which resulted in not really achieving anything.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on April 09, 2018, 07:43:54 PM
What is he meant to do? We had lost 9 straight before Saturday including defeats to Huddersfield, Bournemouth, Southampton (hardly great teams and on a par with Swansea).
We have changed formation all season. We have played 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 and still lost. He was managing his first professional game and apparently now he isn't managerial material. He may not be a good manager but i'm glad we have decided that after 1 game.
They say Rome wasn't built in a day but at Albion you need to change a season of disaster and a whole football culture within 24 hours :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on April 09, 2018, 08:31:47 PM
What is he meant to do? We had lost 9 straight before Saturday including defeats to Huddersfield, Bournemouth, Southampton (hardly great teams and on a par with Swansea).
We have changed formation all season. We have played 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 and still lost. He was managing his first professional game and apparently now he isn't managerial material. He may not be a good manager but i'm glad we have decided that after 1 game.
They say Rome wasn't built in a day but at Albion you need to change a season of disaster and a whole football culture within 24 hours :)
Kudos for that post,
Darren needs support not negativism, lets stay behind him, he will be learning every day, us slagging him off already will not help anyone.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on April 09, 2018, 08:37:29 PM
What is he meant to do? We had lost 9 straight before Saturday including defeats to Huddersfield, Bournemouth, Southampton (hardly great teams and on a par with Swansea).
We have changed formation all season. We have played 4-4-2 and 4-5-1 and still lost. He was managing his first professional game and apparently now he isn't managerial material. He may not be a good manager but i'm glad we have decided that after 1 game.
They say Rome wasn't built in a day but at Albion you need to change a season of disaster and a whole football culture within 24 hours :)

Look, Darren Moore did well on Saturday in terms of bringing "Unity" (his words) and he certainly galvanised the players to such an extent that they at least were motivated, on the front foot and pushed Swansea back at times.  Certainly, the early signs would appear that he's a superior motivator/communicator than Pardew, who was probably arrogant/detached.

My criticism comes from the picking of a formation/personnel that has failed the test multiple times over a 30 plus game season.  It's almost like he hasn't heeded the lessons from what's gone before.

So it's certainly not "black & white" regarding DM, as I've said I'm sure he has strengths.  You do wonder about him tactically and let's hope he's not from the Steve Bruce school of Football Management!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on April 09, 2018, 09:40:18 PM
Look, Darren Moore did well on Saturday in terms of bringing "Unity" (his words) and he certainly galvanised the players to such an extent that they at least were motivated, on the front foot and pushed Swansea back at times.  Certainly, the early signs would appear that he's a superior motivator/communicator than Pardew, who was probably arrogant/detached.

My criticism comes from the picking of a formation/personnel that has failed the test multiple times over a 30 plus game season.  It's almost like he hasn't heeded the lessons from what's gone before.

So it's certainly not "black & white" regarding DM, as I've said I'm sure he has strengths.  You do wonder about him tactically and let's hope he's not from the Steve Bruce school of Football Management!

What would have been your formation and personnel then O wise one?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on April 09, 2018, 10:04:04 PM
What would have been your formation and personnel then O wise one?

Not exactly wise, just common sense I would have thought..... 

(Bearing in mind Pardew was getting panned previously for a 4-4-2 set up).

With so many WBA midfielders lacking pace / athleticism you wouldn't be having 2 centrally and 1 of those Brunt. 

Foster
Nyom
Gibbs
Dawson
Hegazi
Burke
Phillips
Livermore
Krychowiak
Brunt
Rondon

Rodriguez to be brought on 2nd half.

Moving forward, are you happy with 4-4-2 then?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on April 09, 2018, 10:07:05 PM
No falling out lads, season's over. save your energy for next season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on April 09, 2018, 10:46:01 PM
Look, Darren Moore did well on Saturday in terms of bringing "Unity" (his words) and he certainly galvanised the players to such an extent that they at least were motivated, on the front foot and pushed Swansea back at times.  Certainly, the early signs would appear that he's a superior motivator/communicator than Pardew, who was probably arrogant/detached.

My criticism comes from the picking of a formation/personnel that has failed the test multiple times over a 30 plus game season.  It's almost like he hasn't heeded the lessons from what's gone before.

So it's certainly not "black & white" regarding DM, as I've said I'm sure he has strengths.  You do wonder about him tactically and let's hope he's not from the Steve Bruce school of Football Management!

Steve Bruce games managed 865
Darren Moore games managed 1.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on April 10, 2018, 06:55:26 AM
Not exactly wise, just common sense I would have thought..... 

(Bearing in mind Pardew was getting panned previously for a 4-4-2 set up).

With so many WBA midfielders lacking pace / athleticism you wouldn't be having 2 centrally and 1 of those Brunt. 

Foster
Nyom
Gibbs
Dawson
Hegazi
Burke
Phillips
Livermore
Krychowiak
Brunt
Rondon

Rodriguez to be brought on 2nd half.

Moving forward, are you happy with 4-4-2 then?

Forget 4-4-2 forget formations we've got battered no matter what formation we've played.
Not so much about formations as personnel.
Where a few seasons back everybody was hailing the West Bromwich Albion model of running a football club, no sooner does the door shut on JP we adopt the Villa model.
Bring in over priced players, unbalance and unsettle the squad and here we are following Villa into the league below.

I was happy with the 4-4-2 on Saturday, we were winning the game, not over troubled, lost it because of individual errors.
We could have had six in midfield on Saturday, that would still be irrelevant because they scored from their first and only needless corner.
The point I'm trying to make is that we didn't throw points away on Saturday because of formation
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on April 10, 2018, 07:10:34 AM
Although we lacked a cutting edge I actually enjoyed large spells of the game. I haven't felt like that for ages. While ultimately disappointed to have only drawn with what has to be acknowledged as a dire Swansea side, those enjoyable spells were the most important thing for me. COYB  8) .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 12, 2018, 10:59:13 AM
Although we lacked a cutting edge I actually enjoyed large spells of the game. I haven't felt like that for ages. While ultimately disappointed to have only drawn with what has to be acknowledged as a dire Swansea side, those enjoyable spells were the most important thing for me. COYB  8) .

Same. That's what's important too right now. That feeling.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on April 15, 2018, 05:57:59 PM
I thought we had decided after 1 game he wasn’t a good manager and tactically not up to it ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Nice1Cyrille on April 15, 2018, 06:00:20 PM
Should be interesting to see how results develop for the rest of the season. Is Darren throwing his hat in the ring for the next manager?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: glosterbaggie on April 15, 2018, 06:02:22 PM
I think Saturday went some way to proving what we all knew already, that big Dave is not management material...currently, but then it is not by his choice that he is in this position so I certainly will not criticise him for it.

Brunt in central midfield in a midfield trio is a bad idea, to play him there in a midfield two is just utterly ridiculous. Thankfully Swansea set up in a bizarrely negative fashion and didn't look to exploit the poor team selection so it at least stopped the rot.
Good evening mate!  8)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on April 15, 2018, 06:03:09 PM
Should be interesting to see how results develop for the rest of the season. Is Darren throwing his hat in the ring for the next manager?

Time will tell, we've got some tough games ahead (Liverpool and Spurs) so potentially this could be our last win of the season. As great it is to win today, he'd have to win a few more games to be considered as he's still so inexperienced, but hopefully he can at least prove himself for consideration.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on April 15, 2018, 06:04:05 PM
Big Dave has made an impact. I'll be interested to see how we perform over the remaing games.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on April 15, 2018, 06:05:39 PM
Good evening mate!  8)

Good evening...?

Are we trying to say that one game proves everything here? We failed to beat Swansea at home, that is more of a concern for me currently.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Blowee on April 15, 2018, 06:11:25 PM
Good evening...?

Are we trying to say that one game proves everything here? We failed to beat Swansea at home, that is more of a concern for me currently.
Swansea demonstrated a lack of confidence after a very poor season. Today's result should give us some pride and confidence back. I'm not naive enough to suggest that two games undefeated suggests we've found our man but good luck to Big Dave. If we can finish on a high I would be at all surprised to see him get a shot at management somewhere.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: glosterbaggie on April 15, 2018, 06:30:44 PM
Good evening...?

Are we trying to say that one game proves everything here? We failed to beat Swansea at home, that is more of a concern for me currently.
Not really more deadpan humour. But fair do's a win there has to be commended.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: don1thedon on April 15, 2018, 06:31:38 PM
Thank you Darren, big time!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on April 15, 2018, 06:32:24 PM
Lets just be pleased for the bloke.
The players have responded to Big Dave because he's that sort of personality.
Is he ready for management? Probably not yet.
Put that aside and lets be pleased for him and the players he's had to prepare this week
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: CL3MO on April 15, 2018, 06:40:12 PM
Massive respect for what Big Dave is doing. He is truly one of our own!

But for the permanent job, no.

We need a fresh start across the board - board room, management and players.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on April 15, 2018, 06:47:56 PM
Massive respect for what Big Dave is doing. He is truly one of our own!

But for the permanent job, no.

We need a fresh start across the board - board room, management and players.
Agree but hope he retains a role that supports his development.
Mind you, if we win the last 4 he can have the job for life, for me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on April 15, 2018, 07:56:22 PM
Oh if only - Big D had been put in charge 6 weeks ago.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wigmore on April 15, 2018, 08:22:24 PM
Good evening...?

Are we trying to say that one game proves everything here? We failed to beat Swansea at home, that is more of a concern for me currently.

Stop digging.
If you really think that the Swansea result is more of a concern than the wholehearted improvement shown today, words fail me...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 15, 2018, 08:42:04 PM
I believe in the man and clearly the players do.

When we keep saying we're looking for something different, do we actually know what that different is? It could possibly be a fairly unassuming man who utterly loves our club and has some decent ideas and team selection and who also galvanises a jaded squad.

Just saying. Four more games to see.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on April 15, 2018, 09:16:56 PM
Said all along if he wins 4/5 of the matches he deserves to get the job full time. 3 more wins (which I doubt we’ll get) and he’s in for me.

Failing that then I hope he becomes our permanent 1st team coach in our new structure in the mold of Keith Downing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on April 15, 2018, 10:02:30 PM
Regardless of what happens between now and the start of next season, I want to thank Big Dave.

He didn’t need to step into this role, he didn’t have to take on responsibility of a team that was spiralling into the championship without a fight and he didn’t have to put himself in the firing line.

However, he’s taken it on until the end of the season and he’s brought the club back together, he’s brought the fans back onside, the players over the past two games have clearly put in shifts for him, he’s spoken about us being a family club and today’s result has probably softened how bad we have been for majority of the season.

Thank you Big Dave for understanding the club and the fans and for just giving us a little bit of pride and something to smile about in what’s been a terrible season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mig on April 15, 2018, 10:32:53 PM
So so happy with the win today and big thanks to Big Dave for that. Today was spot on and tactically he nailed it against a big club. What i want to see now is us taking the game to teams outside the top six. If he does that then give him the job. Otherwise he is not the one for me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on April 15, 2018, 11:08:17 PM
Whatever he's done bottle it.
If he keeps this up who knows always liked his attitude,he's a top baggie whatever happens he must stay at this club
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: chipperclark on April 16, 2018, 12:02:52 AM
 ;D Would love to see Big Dave get the assistant managers job next season...then the No 1 job when he has done a season or 2.
He is steady,honest and loves the club and the players love him. ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on April 16, 2018, 06:34:56 AM
;D Would love to see Big Dave get the assistant managers job next season...then the No 1 job when he has done a season or 2.
He is steady,honest and loves the club and the players love him. ;D

II can see that happening if Appleton gets the No 1 job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on April 16, 2018, 09:06:15 AM
Big Dave is an inspirational guy , we know that from his time as a player/ captain. He also has a large dose of humility and warmth which I perceive was not there with Pardew or Pulis' coaching teams. The players were obviously not happy playing for either of these guys this season.

The recent club's history was built on people like Big Dave, working their socks off but staying humble and that's how we'll rebuild it again - that's our soul or whatever you want to call it and Big Dave understands that. Hopefully , new coaches and players coming in understand and adopt this approach too.

There's only one Big Dave
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 16, 2018, 09:26:31 AM
I'd be very happy to see Big Dave take us into at least the start of next season if this is how he operates.

We've a lot of change needed in between now and August and I'd rather concentrate on the squad and backroom if DM can continue like this.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on April 16, 2018, 09:34:03 AM
Regardless of what happens between now and the start of next season, I want to thank Big Dave.

He didn’t need to step into this role, he didn’t have to take on responsibility of a team that was spiralling into the championship without a fight and he didn’t have to put himself in the firing line.

However, he’s taken it on until the end of the season and he’s brought the club back together, he’s brought the fans back onside, the players over the past two games have clearly put in shifts for him, he’s spoken about us being a family club and today’s result has probably softened how bad we have been for majority of the season.

Thank you Big Dave for understanding the club and the fans and for just giving us a little bit of pride and something to smile about in what’s been a terrible season.

Great post, agree with everything you have said. Thanks Dave...... :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiebof on April 16, 2018, 10:46:31 AM
Really pleased for him and hope he remains a part of the setup for a long while yet. Calls for him to become the new manager are very premature in my eyes but pleased it's him in charge of the ship at the current moment.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on April 16, 2018, 11:44:23 AM
i think it's important that whatever happens and whoever comes in that Big Dave isn't lost to the club.

there needs to be a role for him with us
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on April 16, 2018, 12:36:57 PM
Delighted for the Big Man, he is just one of those blokes you cant help but like.

I said previously as much as a like him, i had no idea what he was like as a coach or manager, well if yesterday is anything to go by, he is bloody good at it!

The only thing may be if he does well between now and the end of the season as the main man, and somebody elses gets the job, would he want to move back to Assistant or first team coach? I think he is quoted as saying he wanted to be a manager a couple of years ago but wasnt ready at the time, after a year as first team coach and now six games as a premier league manager, if he does okay i wonder if he will fancy a crack at being the main man, even if its not at the Albion.

As somebody said above, he has restored a bit of pride, we looked like a team yesterday and after enjoying the win, i then started to think, why havent we done that all season!

It also raised the dreaded 'what if' question! Maximum we can finish with would be 36 points in the unlikely event we won every game between now and the end of the season. There are 7 clubs above us who have less than 36 points but they all will pick up points and have games in hand.

However i cant be arsed to work it out, i read earlier there is only Swansea we could actually catch so if thats correct i assume a lot of clubs down there are playing each other between now and end of the season so therefore one or both has to get points? By the way i know we are 99.9% down just curious!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: MarkW on April 16, 2018, 12:43:40 PM
I still don't agree with his team selections, but you can't fault the guy on instilling an ethos into the team. Like I said on the after match thread, a great set piece routine off the training ground with everyone executing their roles perfectly
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on April 16, 2018, 12:57:52 PM
It's probably too early to make him full time manager, but it shouldn't be too difficult to keep hold of him in a coaching role, regardless of who the next manager is.

He's showing signs though, so down the line he might make a good choice.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: koren on April 16, 2018, 01:04:27 PM
Took charge of a team with 9 defeats in a row, got 4 points in first 2 games, win at Old Trafford. You can't ask for more.
Finally we can see the players playing as a team with fighting spirit. Well Done Big Dave.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 16, 2018, 01:30:18 PM
If Moore wins 2 of the last 4 games we will have to consider him seriously for the job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on April 16, 2018, 02:02:09 PM
Domenico Tedesco has just got Schalke back to the champions league at the age of 32 with no real first team coaching experience prior to his appointment.

We need to find our own Tedesco and that means taking risks, as Schalke did.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on April 16, 2018, 02:06:31 PM
Delighted for the Big Man, he is just one of those blokes you cant help but like.

I said previously as much as a like him, i had no idea what he was like as a coach or manager, well if yesterday is anything to go by, he is bloody good at it!

The only thing may be if he does well between now and the end of the season as the main man, and somebody elses gets the job, would he want to move back to Assistant or first team coach? I think he is quoted as saying he wanted to be a manager a couple of years ago but wasnt ready at the time, after a year as first team coach and now six games as a premier league manager, if he does okay i wonder if he will fancy a crack at being the main man, even if its not at the Albion.

As somebody said above, he has restored a bit of pride, we looked like a team yesterday and after enjoying the win, i then started to think, why havent we done that all season!

It also raised the dreaded 'what if' question! Maximum we can finish with would be 36 points in the unlikely event we won every game between now and the end of the season. There are 7 clubs above us who have less than 36 points but they all will pick up points and have games in hand.

However i cant be arsed to work it out, i read earlier there is only Swansea we could actually catch so if thats correct i assume a lot of clubs down there are playing each other between now and end of the season so therefore one or both has to get points? By the way i know we are 99.9% down just curious!
We can still finish above: Swansea, Palace, Huddersfield, Brighton, West Ham, Saints and Stoke.
I make it that we could still finish 13th on 36 points.
Not many games between the bottom 8.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on April 16, 2018, 03:24:52 PM
Delighted for the Big Man, he is just one of those blokes you cant help but like.

I said previously as much as a like him, i had no idea what he was like as a coach or manager, well if yesterday is anything to go by, he is bloody good at it!

The only thing may be if he does well between now and the end of the season as the main man, and somebody elses gets the job, would he want to move back to Assistant or first team coach? I think he is quoted as saying he wanted to be a manager a couple of years ago but wasnt ready at the time, after a year as first team coach and now six games as a premier league manager, if he does okay i wonder if he will fancy a crack at being the main man, even if its not at the Albion.

As somebody said above, he has restored a bit of pride, we looked like a team yesterday and after enjoying the win, i then started to think, why havent we done that all season!

It also raised the dreaded 'what if' question! Maximum we can finish with would be 36 points in the unlikely event we won every game between now and the end of the season. There are 7 clubs above us who have less than 36 points but they all will pick up points and have games in hand.

However i cant be arsed to work it out, i read earlier there is only Swansea we could actually catch so if thats correct i assume a lot of clubs down there are playing each other between now and end of the season so therefore one or both has to get points? By the way i know we are 99.9% down just curious!

It seems like an age ago now but I well remember a certain Sir Gary Megson restoring Albion's pride.

Now his captain is doing the same.

Whatever happens between now and the season's end, thank you Big Dave.

He may be a Viler at heart but he's OUR Viler and an honourary Baggie.

Arise Sir Darren, and SOTV with the rest of us..... COYB  8) .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 16, 2018, 03:59:00 PM
Delighted for the Big Man, he is just one of those blokes you cant help but like.

I said previously as much as a like him, i had no idea what he was like as a coach or manager, well if yesterday is anything to go by, he is bloody good at it!

The only thing may be if he does well between now and the end of the season as the main man, and somebody elses gets the job, would he want to move back to Assistant or first team coach? I think he is quoted as saying he wanted to be a manager a couple of years ago but wasnt ready at the time, after a year as first team coach and now six games as a premier league manager, if he does okay i wonder if he will fancy a crack at being the main man, even if its not at the Albion.

As somebody said above, he has restored a bit of pride, we looked like a team yesterday and after enjoying the win, i then started to think, why havent we done that all season!

It also raised the dreaded 'what if' question! Maximum we can finish with would be 36 points in the unlikely event we won every game between now and the end of the season. There are 7 clubs above us who have less than 36 points but they all will pick up points and have games in hand.

However i cant be arsed to work it out, i read earlier there is only Swansea we could actually catch so if thats correct i assume a lot of clubs down there are playing each other between now and end of the season so therefore one or both has to get points? By the way i know we are 99.9% down just curious!


I've just done a predictor. We would obviously need to win all our games. Then if the rest of the bottom 8 lose all their games (draw if playing each other) we would finish 13th on 36 points with 5 teams on 35 below us and goal difference determining the last relegated team. Stoke and Southampton would be 5 and 6 points adrift respectively.


Total pie in the sky of course because if we somehow beat Liverpool we'll go and lose at Newcastle. It's been that type of season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 16, 2018, 05:21:53 PM
Generally feel Big Dave has understood our anger all Season and Thought you know what I want this team to be playing with the Same Passion and Pride that I did he brought us the fans back on Side and Not only that You have to feel he was standing on the Touchline trying to inject Passion but The Players Playing under Pardew Probably Couldn't Inject the Players or make them see or play with any
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on April 16, 2018, 05:24:32 PM
Pardew couldn't have 'injected' the players with a hypodermic needle  :-X .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on April 16, 2018, 06:49:15 PM
Think he should be in with a shout for job on permanent bases.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 16, 2018, 08:54:32 PM
Think he should be in with a shout for job on permanent bases.

Think he should be if he carries on like this to the end of the season. I'd say so then for sure.

.... though thinking about it, we've kept asking for someone young (for management), with new ideas, that hadn't done the magic roundabout. Sounds a bit like DM.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on April 16, 2018, 10:36:05 PM

I've just done a predictor. We would obviously need to win all our games. Then if the rest of the bottom 8 lose all their games (draw if playing each other) we would finish 13th on 36 points with 5 teams on 35 below us and goal difference determining the last relegated team. Stoke and Southampton would be 5 and 6 points adrift respectively.


Total pie in the sky of course because if we somehow beat Liverpool we'll go and lose at Newcastle. It's been that type of season.
I think we could
There is always a story

Swansea
Stoke
Southampton
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on April 16, 2018, 11:08:03 PM
Yesterday was great.

But i think everybody's getting carried away!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on April 16, 2018, 11:13:29 PM
Yesterday was great.

But i think everybody's getting carried away!
We’ve not had much reason to this season. It certainly makes a pleasant change.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Big Al on April 16, 2018, 11:59:39 PM
Much as I love the job he is doing in restoring our pride, I would not want him to take us into next season.
However it would be great if he stayed on in a coaching capacity as he is clearly gifted. I think we all want a clean sweep but it is preferable to have a new manager with some experience in my opinion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on April 17, 2018, 08:34:33 AM
We can still finish above: Swansea, Palace, Huddersfield, Brighton, West Ham, Saints and Stoke.
I make it that we could still finish 13th on 36 points.
Not many games between the bottom 8.
After last night's draw, we can still finish above both Stoke and West Ham!
Maybe the fat lady's got a sore throat..... best hide the Strepsils!  ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on April 17, 2018, 11:29:43 AM
Having moved on most of the senior figures on the board, we also moved out the majority of our support & communications network.

IMO it would be an impossible job for Darren Moore (or any other coach for that matter) without the support behind them. I'm hoping we get a stellar DoF, who would be capable of mentoring our next head coach. Under those circumstances, I think it would be worth giving Darren a go.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on April 17, 2018, 12:04:58 PM
We can still finish above: Swansea, Palace, Huddersfield, Brighton, West Ham, Saints and Stoke.
I make it that we could still finish 13th on 36 points.
Not many games between the bottom 8.

Don't do it to yourself, its the hope that kills you.
Just go and have a lie down it will soon be over.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on April 17, 2018, 12:13:23 PM
Don't do it to yourself, its the hope that kills you.
Just go and have a lie down it will soon be over.
Can't help it, it's the most fun I've had all season. I can see the DVD now:

"The Great Escape II: The Return of Big Dave"

 :D

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 17, 2018, 06:14:06 PM
Can't help it, it's the most fun I've had all season. I can see the DVD now:

"The Great Escape II: The Return of Big Dave"

 :D

Haha don't we all wish. I've done the permutations too since, I must be mental.

Swansea Stoke Southampton would be an absolute dream come true. But they've all got to do pretty rubbish (genuinely some tough fixtures for them all) while we win each and every single one.

Once Liverpool put three past us on Saturday, we can check back in to reality.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 17, 2018, 06:50:25 PM
Haha don't we all wish. I've done the permutations too since, I must be mental.

Swansea Stoke Southampton would be an absolute dream come true. But they've all got to do pretty rubbish (genuinely some tough fixtures for them all) while we win each and every single one.

Once Liverpool put three past us on Saturday, we can check back in to reality.
However if we win many of us will be on the Beer not me as I'm 14 but Some people on here ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 17, 2018, 06:57:52 PM
However if we win many of us will be on the Beer not me as I'm 14 but Some people on here ;)

Tell you what BaggieBoy if we win on Saturday I will raise several glasses in your honour. I could not be happier if that happens.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 17, 2018, 08:00:47 PM
Haha don't we all wish. I've done the permutations too since, I must be mental.

Swansea Stoke Southampton would be an absolute dream come true. But they've all got to do pretty rubbish (genuinely some tough fixtures for them all) while we win each and every single one.

Once Liverpool put three past us on Saturday, we can check back in to reality.


Brighton are the ones to watch. Awful run in.


As you say though a spanking on Saturday and it makes no odds...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on April 18, 2018, 08:44:21 AM

Brighton are the ones to watch. Awful run in.


As you say though a spanking on Saturday and it makes no odds...
Brighton pretty much out of range now, would take 4 wins and a 10 goal swing.
Huddersfield have Chelsea, Everton, Man City and Arsenal left, with a worse goal difference though, so are there for the taking. ;)
Win Saturday and we'll all start to believe.
Hallelujah.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 18, 2018, 08:48:51 AM
Brighton pretty much out of range now, would take 4 wins and a 10 goal swing.
Huddersfield have Chelsea, Everton, Man City and Arsenal left, with a worse goal difference though, so are there for the taking. ;)
Win Saturday and we'll all start to believe.
Hallelujah.

I'd not looked at Huddersfield's fixtures. Blimey.

Mid afternoon Saturday will be a very different climate on here one way or another....

COYB!!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on April 18, 2018, 10:54:47 AM
Brighton pretty much out of range now, would take 4 wins and a 10 goal swing.
Huddersfield have Chelsea, Everton, Man City and Arsenal left, with a worse goal difference though, so are there for the taking. ;)
Win Saturday and we'll all start to believe.
Hallelujah.

Not me mate, I refuse to believe as I don't want the disappointment! IF we go into the Palace game needing a win to stay up then I shall allow myself to believe and then should we lose I'll just be pleased we managed to get ourselves into a position where we could have stayed up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on April 18, 2018, 11:31:36 AM
And if they don't & we do ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mrvulgarity on April 18, 2018, 12:26:35 PM
Promoted to the premier league vs Crystal Palace.... Darren Moore Scored.
Pulled off the great escape vs Crystal Palace.... Darren Moore Managed?

Dare to dream!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on April 18, 2018, 12:43:13 PM
Blimey chaps, we have only won one game.....

We are as dead as flares so lets just accept it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on April 18, 2018, 01:11:36 PM
Blimey chaps, we have only won one game.....

We are as dead as flares so lets just accept it.


Lol. Yep, not a chance in hell we stay up from this position.

I actually like the fact that fans have some sort of optimism and hope again though. It sure beats that "dead" feeling everyone obviously had at the Swansea game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Cullompton baggie on April 18, 2018, 01:45:44 PM
I don't like to burst anybody's bubble but 1 swallow does not make a summer! as the saying goes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: CorbyBaggie on April 18, 2018, 01:46:08 PM
Brighton pretty much out of range now, would take 4 wins and a 10 goal swing.
Huddersfield have Chelsea, Everton, Man City and Arsenal left, with a worse goal difference though, so are there for the taking. ;)
Win Saturday and we'll all start to believe.
Hallelujah.

If we won all four and Brighton lost all four that's a minimum 8 goal swing.

(I don't actually believe this will happen!)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on April 18, 2018, 01:51:07 PM
Promoted to the premier league vs Crystal Palace.... Darren Moore Scored.
Pulled off the great escape vs Crystal Palace.... Darren Moore Managed?

Dare to dream!
One of my best days as a baggie, only the 2nd time I went on the pitch (Oldham away 1st) Thanks for bringing this to mind
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mrvulgarity on April 18, 2018, 01:58:41 PM
One of my best days as a baggie, only the 2nd time I went on the pitch (Oldham away 1st) Thanks for bringing this to mind

I can remember the joy on DM's face. then THAT Taylor image.....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 18, 2018, 05:22:18 PM
I don't like to burst anybody's bubble but 1 swallow does not make a summer! as the saying goes.

I couldn't agree more but let's have a bit of fun til Saturday rains on our parade. As another saying goes :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 18, 2018, 05:24:15 PM
If we won all four and Brighton lost all four that's a minimum 8 goal swing.

(I don't actually believe this will happen!)

The stuff dreams are made of.

(I don't actually believe this will happen either!)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 18, 2018, 05:25:52 PM
Promoted to the premier league vs Crystal Palace.... Darren Moore Scored.
Pulled off the great escape vs Crystal Palace.... Darren Moore Managed?

Dare to dream!

Great reminder. Brilliant.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Cardiaccarol on April 21, 2018, 03:46:54 PM
Good man Dave
Finally feel like we are getting somwhere

WELL DONE THAT MAN
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheBrom on April 21, 2018, 05:05:19 PM
Have to admit I was questioning his first substitution. Wasn't sure why McClean was taken off when Gibbs got subbed minutes later. Would have though a straight Gibbs for Evans or Burke would have been a simpler approach. Worked in the end though.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on April 21, 2018, 06:08:01 PM
Giant job a purely to get a winning mentality back and restore pride if he does a good enough job of this then he will deserve the job if he wants it
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on April 21, 2018, 06:33:58 PM
Giant job a purely to get a winning mentality back and restore pride if he does a good enough job of this then he will deserve the job if he wants it

Absolutely love the man's enthusiasm, but it's going to take a lot more than enthusiasm to move us on from this season
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ajt33 on April 21, 2018, 10:35:18 PM
"Can we restart the season please?"  :P

(http://i3.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article11228260.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/WBA25jpe  :Pg.jpg)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on April 22, 2018, 01:40:48 PM
if Darren gets the job full time he has to be more proactive in using bench, if its not working change it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on April 22, 2018, 05:40:42 PM
Love the man and love all he is doing to galvanise the club currently...but next manager? Not for me still.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on April 22, 2018, 05:42:56 PM
Love the man and love all he is doing to galvanise the club currently...but next manager? Not for me still.
I have mixed feelings , felt for a while we should gamble on somebody fresh . I'd have Moore over a lot of names mentioned so far.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on April 22, 2018, 05:50:25 PM
Can't help it, it's the most fun I've had all season. I can see the DVD now:

"The Great Escape II: The Return of Big Dave"

 :D
Looks like we'll still be in it at 3pm next Sat.  I reckon or chances are up from 1% to about 3% now 😉
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on April 22, 2018, 06:57:20 PM
He needs to do the business and Newcastle and palace sides we're expected the game too. We have done well in our free hits. I'm impressed so far especially that he didn't crumble and put Evans back in the team. He needs to demonstrate we can take the game to teams and then he will defiantly be in with a shout
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: chipperclark on April 22, 2018, 11:31:04 PM
 ;D He would be a fantastic Assistant coach...he needs to stay with the Club and whoever comes in would have a fantastic attribute in Big Dave.

In a year or 2 give him the "Big Job". ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on April 23, 2018, 09:41:06 AM
Looks like we'll still be in it at 3pm next Sat.  I reckon or chances are up from 1% to about 3% now 😉
It's still on!
If we win all 3, Swansea lose their last 4 and Stoke and Saints only beat Swansea and lose the rest, job's a good un!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: dont ask me to choose luv on April 23, 2018, 10:04:40 AM
We stayed up with 34 points in the Great Escape season! guess how many points we can get this season  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If3SXJeZzMQ
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on April 23, 2018, 12:44:50 PM
The utterly ideal situation for me would be to get in a head coach strictly on a two year contract, with Darren Moore being his assistant (one of two if the guy wants to bring one) with the approach that Darren is lined up to take over after that.

A lot of the really successful teams adopt a system of promoting internally through a system of progression and talent recognition. I wonder how Darren would handle a 3-4 game dip in form in November of such, especially if we've a lot of the team to replace.

Aim high for the next coach, bring in the very best person we can (which probably means aiming at an old head who will come for the money, Luiz Felipe Scolari for example). Pour as much knowledge and wisdom into Moore and the other internal coaches as possible and then promote from within.

Lets try thinking more than 1 year ahead. Lets put a proper system in place!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on April 23, 2018, 12:49:31 PM
we are going down but thanks to Big Dave for lifting spirits which hopefully bodes well for new life in the championship
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on April 23, 2018, 01:52:23 PM
The utterly ideal situation for me would be to get in a head coach strictly on a two year contract, with Darren Moore being his assistant (one of two if the guy wants to bring one) with the approach that Darren is lined up to take over after that.

A lot of the really successful teams adopt a system of promoting internally through a system of progression and talent recognition. I wonder how Darren would handle a 3-4 game dip in form in November of such, especially if we've a lot of the team to replace.

Aim high for the next coach, bring in the very best person we can (which probably means aiming at an old head who will come for the money, Luiz Felipe Scolari for example). Pour as much knowledge and wisdom into Moore and the other internal coaches as possible and then promote from within.

Lets try thinking more than 1 year ahead. Lets put a proper system in place!


I believe something along those lines is the aim, whether we actually achieve that remains to be seen.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on April 23, 2018, 02:03:37 PM
Big Dave has really got them playing now and I wonder if it's down to his motivation or players thinking he will get the job so I have to impress him.
If that's the case they need to make a decision sooner. The issue with appointing someone in the Summer or close to end of season is that they may decide to 'give everyone a chance' whereas we know what they're like and few chances would be offered.
I think this process will take a lot longer than we think, unless there is someone waiting in the wings.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on April 26, 2018, 09:33:03 AM
I think these performances have always been in there somewhere.  Maybe Pulis had run his course with the squad, or the injuries were too much for the squad we had, but one things for sure, Pardew did not get the players on his side and playing for him.  I'd love to have been a fly on the wall for chunks of this season and see how bad it was and why management didn't do something sooner.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on April 26, 2018, 10:31:10 AM
The utterly ideal situation for me would be to get in a head coach strictly on a two year contract, with Darren Moore being his assistant (one of two if the guy wants to bring one) with the approach that Darren is lined up to take over after that.

A lot of the really successful teams adopt a system of promoting internally through a system of progression and talent recognition. I wonder how Darren would handle a 3-4 game dip in form in November of such, especially if we've a lot of the team to replace.

Aim high for the next coach, bring in the very best person we can (which probably means aiming at an old head who will come for the money, Luiz Felipe Scolari for example). Pour as much knowledge and wisdom into Moore and the other internal coaches as possible and then promote from within.

Lets try thinking more than 1 year ahead. Lets put a proper system in place!
This is muddled thinking. For a start, what coach with any confidence in his own ability is going to take a job where he is just keeping the seat warm for someone else? I doubt if such a person exists.
But just for a moment, let's assume that we found this mythical person and project forward with a couple of very plausible outcomes.
1 He gets us promoted in his first season, and gets a top ten finish in his second, making some excellent signings along the way. The team is playing with confidence and there is a feel good factor about the club. What are you going to do? Sack him and replace him with Big Dave? I don't think so.
2 He is a disaster and we are bottom of the Championship with half the matches played. What are you going to do? Sack him and appoint Big Dave 18 months ahead of schedule? Sack him and look for someone else to appoint in mid season for 18 months? What if this person then steers us clear of relegation and then gets us promoted in the second season? Sack him and replace him with Big Dave? I don't think so.
We all love Big Dave. He is a legend. But maybe he needs a bit more experience to undertake the role of head coach. In which case, we appoint the best person we can find, and offer Big Dave a role within the new set up. If he continues to develop as a coach over the next few years, we can look at him in a few years and make the decision then. On the other hand, if he is ready now, let's appoint him now. This is a decision for those with a finger on the pulse within the club and they have to make a judgement. But, I would suggest, your "utterly ideal situation" is not an outcome that has even a sniff of actually happening.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on April 26, 2018, 10:44:01 AM
It's amazing the change in atmosphere Big Dave has brought about in a few weeks in charge, however for me 3 or even 6 games is nowhere near enough to judge him able to take us into a massive rebuild and a long championship season. It seems we're all thinking along similar lines of putting in place a structure which allows greater longevity and succession planning which should include Big Dave.

We do need someone with experience of building/ rebuilding teams, relative success of developing younger players, possibly English league experience and possibly even championship experience (last two debatable of course). This means we'll likely have a shortlist of people who will be able to work with the existing coaches and build a legacy to avoid a Pulis style complete takeover which leads to an almost inevitable hangover at some stage.



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on April 26, 2018, 11:06:15 AM
still pretty angry the players wernt playing for the shirt priorto Big Dave being head
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on April 26, 2018, 11:13:26 AM
still pretty angry the players wernt playing for the shirt priorto Big Dave being head
Have you never had a boss who was a complete idiot, who you had no respect for, and you certainly weren't going to knock your pan out for? I certainly have. I have also had bosses who I had utter respect for, and I would go the extra mile for. You will probably say that these are highly paid professionals who should play with pride and commitment whoever the boss is, and I would agree with you in principle, but human nature being what it is, it ain't going to happen.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on April 26, 2018, 11:17:34 AM
Have you never had a boss who was a complete idiot, who you had no respect for, and you certainly weren't going to knock your pan out for? I certainly have. I have also had bosses who I had utter respect for, and I would go the extra mile for. You will probably say that these are highly paid professionals who should play with pride and commitment whoever the boss is, and I would agree with you in principle, but human nature being what it is, it ain't going to happen.

not that anyone would care but the players being half arsed will determine whether i will renew or not, it all depends whos left of this sad lot come august
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on April 26, 2018, 11:47:58 AM
Have you never had a boss who was a complete idiot, who you had no respect for, and you certainly weren't going to knock your pan out for? I certainly have. I have also had bosses who I had utter respect for, and I would go the extra mile for. You will probably say that these are highly paid professionals who should play with pride and commitment whoever the boss is, and I would agree with you in principle, but human nature being what it is, it ain't going to happen.

Agree totally.

Darren Moore can't lose with this assignment, in the very unlikely event that he keeps us up, he'll be a hero, if we get relegated, it was expected anyway, but we went down fighting.

From 1 June however, all bets are off, & whoever is in charge then will be expected to deliver.
 I have to say though I was very impressed with the interview Neil Cutler gave about the coaching team & particularly the attention to detail from James Shan.

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/04/25/meet-the-dedicated-coaching-team-behind-west-brom-caretaker-darren-moore/ (https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/04/25/meet-the-dedicated-coaching-team-behind-west-brom-caretaker-darren-moore/)

I don't think it will be an easy decision on the new head coach.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on April 26, 2018, 12:11:42 PM
This is muddled thinking. For a start, what coach with any confidence in his own ability is going to take a job where he is just keeping the seat warm for someone else? I doubt if such a person exists.
But just for a moment, let's assume that we found this mythical person and project forward with a couple of very plausible outcomes.
1 He gets us promoted in his first season, and gets a top ten finish in his second, making some excellent signings along the way. The team is playing with confidence and there is a feel good factor about the club. What are you going to do? Sack him and replace him with Big Dave? I don't think so.
2 He is a disaster and we are bottom of the Championship with half the matches played. What are you going to do? Sack him and appoint Big Dave 18 months ahead of schedule? Sack him and look for someone else to appoint in mid season for 18 months? What if this person then steers us clear of relegation and then gets us promoted in the second season? Sack him and replace him with Big Dave? I don't think so.
We all love Big Dave. He is a legend. But maybe he needs a bit more experience to undertake the role of head coach. In which case, we appoint the best person we can find, and offer Big Dave a role within the new set up. If he continues to develop as a coach over the next few years, we can look at him in a few years and make the decision then. On the other hand, if he is ready now, let's appoint him now. This is a decision for those with a finger on the pulse within the club and they have to make a judgement. But, I would suggest, your "utterly ideal situation" is not an outcome that has even a sniff of actually happening.

I don't think its muddled thinking.
If we could get a coach that's coming to the end of his carear but wants one last Hurrah (The Big Phil Scholari or Arsen Wenger type) what better way to finish than with leaving a legacy for another coach to carry forward.
It wouldn't work if we were to appoint a younger on the way up coach though.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on April 26, 2018, 12:19:55 PM
This is muddled thinking. For a start, what coach with any confidence in his own ability is going to take a job where he is just keeping the seat warm for someone else? I doubt if such a person exists.
But just for a moment, let's assume that we found this mythical person and project forward with a couple of very plausible outcomes.
1 He gets us promoted in his first season, and gets a top ten finish in his second, making some excellent signings along the way. The team is playing with confidence and there is a feel good factor about the club. What are you going to do? Sack him and replace him with Big Dave? I don't think so.
2 He is a disaster and we are bottom of the Championship with half the matches played. What are you going to do? Sack him and appoint Big Dave 18 months ahead of schedule? Sack him and look for someone else to appoint in mid season for 18 months? What if this person then steers us clear of relegation and then gets us promoted in the second season? Sack him and replace him with Big Dave? I don't think so.
We all love Big Dave. He is a legend. But maybe he needs a bit more experience to undertake the role of head coach. In which case, we appoint the best person we can find, and offer Big Dave a role within the new set up. If he continues to develop as a coach over the next few years, we can look at him in a few years and make the decision then. On the other hand, if he is ready now, let's appoint him now. This is a decision for those with a finger on the pulse within the club and they have to make a judgement. But, I would suggest, your "utterly ideal situation" is not an outcome that has even a sniff of actually happening.

If this scenario does happen, I would expect that this coach would start to get looked at by the 'bigger boys' and potentially be poached - DM could then step in
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on April 26, 2018, 12:26:15 PM
I don't think its muddled thinking.
If we could get a coach that's coming to the end of his carear but wants one last Hurrah (The Big Phil Scholari or Arsen Wenger type) what better way to finish than with leaving a legacy for another coach to carry forward.
It wouldn't work if we were to appoint a younger on the way up coach though.

Within our existing structure, it is muddled thinking, but if we appointed a genuine Director of Football who had responsibility for all football matters, with the head coach reporting to the DoF, then, it could work, in principle.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on April 26, 2018, 12:30:42 PM
I'm starting to come round to the idea of giving Big Dave a chance. We say we need experience, but what good has that done us so far this season? We say we want a fresh approach but ignore one that's staring us in the face.

I think the only reason that we are not clamouring for Big Dave to get the gig is that we are terrified that he may fail. We don't want to see one of our legend's reputation tarnished.
Question is, is that fair? Why should he be held back? He's a (very) big lad, he doesn't need wrapping in cotton wool.
He knows the club, loves the club and the fans love him, shouldn't that give him one foot in the door? Who else fits that criteria? McInnes? Potter? Neither have anything like Darren Moore's affinity with WBA.

We keep saying we should bring in someone new but they MUST keep him on to continue his development. What if that's not what he wants or the new bloke wants? What if it happens but the new bloke does a great job, how long does he wait in the wings? Does he have to leave to get experience somewhere else, in the hope that one day he can come back?

We could be guilty of not seeing what's right in front of our noses so, I say, if he wants it, he gets my vote!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WoysWunderful on April 26, 2018, 01:39:27 PM
not that anyone would care but the players being half arsed will determine whether i will renew or not, it all depends whos left of this sad lot come august

oh is that time again  ??? ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 26, 2018, 02:05:51 PM
oh is that time again  ??? ;D


No idea what you mean... he says it at least once a week.


 ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on April 26, 2018, 02:08:31 PM
oh is that time again  ??? ;D

what are you on about
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on April 26, 2018, 02:09:15 PM

No idea what you mean... he says it at least once a week.


 ;D


well if you want to support footballers who cant be bothered then thats up to you
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WoysWunderful on April 26, 2018, 02:21:32 PM

No idea what you mean... he says it at least once a week.


 ;D

tune in for next seasons addition of will he won't he? presented by wbaindevon
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on April 26, 2018, 03:26:25 PM
I am really quite grateful for the work that DM has done for us and it has added to his status as an Albion icon.  However, I think our judgement might be clouded by the truly terrible season and Management we have had this season.  That management being at more than one level as well.  We beat man Utd away- great result played well.  We drew with Liverpool (played with some spirit and had some luck).  Three results in total are not enough to reach a judgement and we would be taking a big risk if we appoint DM.  That being said I would still see at a bold and exhilarating appointment which would keep my interest for the early part of next year.  When we appointed Pardew, sorry but my heart sank...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on April 28, 2018, 05:01:10 PM
In 4 games he has beaten Mourinho, Benitez and drawn with Klopp :) Not a bad start...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie96 on April 28, 2018, 05:18:25 PM
He deserves respect and the applause next week, we will most likely still go down but big Dave has given us monumental pride and has even made a couple of special memories with the United and Liverpool results. Thank you Darren Moore.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albertbaggie on April 28, 2018, 05:22:59 PM
In 4 games he has beaten Mourinho, Benitez and drawn with Klopp :) Not a bad start...
He's done incredibly well.
Shame we couldn't quite see out the Swansea game ... he might have even kept us up!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on April 28, 2018, 05:40:46 PM
You can't help but love the guy. So down to earth so level headed so honest and decent. What a wonderful man.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: reynirver on April 28, 2018, 05:48:55 PM
He already had a mentor. The guy is ready! Experience is a overrated and has gotten us bored to death and relegated last 3 years. Moore in!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on April 28, 2018, 05:55:31 PM
Yeah he's done enough.

Give him a 12 month rolling contract
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Blowee on April 28, 2018, 06:01:19 PM
His home record is poor - not won under him! Only joking!

 :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on April 28, 2018, 06:04:01 PM
You can't help but love the guy. So down to earth so level headed so honest and decent. What a wonderful man.
That's why he should get the job, not a single applicant will have any of the above on his cv. Add to that his love for the club and it puts him head and (massive) shoulders above anyone else.
Big Davevin!!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Brummie Road on April 28, 2018, 06:37:16 PM
That's why he should get the job, not a single applicant will have any of the above on his cv. Add to that his love for the club and it puts him head and (massive) shoulders above anyone else.
Big Davevin!!!

Totally agree.

It's getting to the point where, looking at the touted candidates, it's more of a risk to give them the job rather than Darren Moore?

We've actually got something good going here for the first time in around 15 months, why on earth should we risk losing that?

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elmo_in_swansea on April 28, 2018, 06:55:17 PM
well pleased for Darren whatever may happen! smashing fella!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on April 28, 2018, 07:05:54 PM
Likely that big Dave will win manager of the month also, add that to the recent wins and you start to question whether can really not offer him the job.

If we don’t offer him the job I guarantee another club will come knocking for him, he oozes professionalism and you can’t help but like him and feed off his positive attitude.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on April 28, 2018, 07:31:39 PM
I think he's bringing my love back for the club after not caring (but deep down caring) after employing two managers that i couldn't stand.

I'm on board!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on April 28, 2018, 07:46:33 PM
I’m behind him. He’s not going to have a style or a tactical philosophy yet but I’m sure Eddie Howe didn’t when he was thrown into the Bournemouth job at a young age. Will take him to develop that aspect. Will the fans/owners be patient enough for that?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on April 28, 2018, 07:52:48 PM
he's won more  matches this season for us than Pulls & Pardew.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on April 28, 2018, 08:02:44 PM
has to be given a chance in my opinion but what the hell was clueless doing in his time in charge, owner and board have alot to answer for with the worst appointment in Albions history >:(
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyPulis on April 28, 2018, 08:06:36 PM
Hes been very good for us so far. Its pretty common though that new managers tend to give a new manager bounce and Im not sure if we should stick with him. I feel like hes a bit too inexperienced.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on April 28, 2018, 08:24:41 PM
Originally didn’t want him to get the job next season as I didn’t want him to spoil his reputation and legacy. Yet with each game that goes by and each result he gets I think it’s harder and harder to ignore.
At the moment I’m leaning towards Moore with an experienced no.2.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dan on April 28, 2018, 08:44:22 PM
I think we should keep him, he's inexperienced but then RDM was our most comfortable promotion and he only had one season of league one football as experience. I don't see that Moore is particularly any more inexperienced having spent the last 6 or so years within various coaching positions. Unless we can get a particularly good manager like Marco Silva - extremely  unlikely, the likely candidates aren't really any more appealing.

Hopefully some of our more trustworthy senior pro's like Brunt and Foster have been consulted, but if they give his coaching the thumbs up, I don't see why we should rock the boat and change things up. He's a risk, but any appointment we make will be.

Obviously questions will remain over his tactical ability in his early stages, of the style of play he wants. I'm not sure he'll be espousing free flowing football philosophy and certainly he's not changed things up much on that front though we're certainly more organised, but if we can keep a good bunch of this team together - Foster, Hegazi, Dawson, Brunt, Livermore, Phillip and Rodriguez - the talent should make up for any potential shortcomings there, as indeed it did with RDM. We'll have a talented squad next season, half the job will be getting them motivated for the battle. Multiple promotions under his belt and undoubtedly a good motivator, Moore certainly has that in his locker.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ripryan1971 on April 28, 2018, 08:48:03 PM
Before anyone gets over excited with Moore, and i love him just as much as anyone else, however, its far far different having the job perm that was he's doing now. Its literally no pressure because we are virtually down. When the going gets tough in the championship, can Moore get nasty?  If everyone says yes, then maybe deserves a chance. Because for me, you need that nasty streak in your locker at some stage.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on April 28, 2018, 08:50:22 PM
It's time to announce he is our head coach for the championship , not lee johenson. Darren deserves a go. If only a few weeks previous eh.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on April 28, 2018, 08:55:25 PM
I don't think we should underestimate the part that James Shan & Neil Cutler have played in the last few weeks.

James Shan has a reputation for being tactically astute & a fine attention to detail.

If we are to make an appointment, it's the team we need to appoint, not just Darren Moore.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on April 28, 2018, 08:57:44 PM
I don't think we should underestimate the part that James Shan & Neil Cutler have played in the last few weeks.

James Shan has a reputation for being tactically astute & a fine attention to detail.

If we are to make an appointment, it's the team we need to appoint, not just Darren Moore.

Spot on. Shan has done a lot in the academy and Seaver was this chance with the first team too.

My only concern now is if they aren’t given the job, will the players play up with the new head coach cause they want big Dave back?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on April 28, 2018, 09:00:09 PM
I don't think we should underestimate the part that James Shan & Neil Cutler have played in the last few weeks.

James Shan has a reputation for being tactically astute & a fine attention to detail.

If we are to make an appointment, it's the team we need to appoint, not just Darren Moore.
Big fan of Shan , his Twitter account shows a lot of his training drills and methods .
He was mentioned a couple of years ago with the Notts County job , think he's gone as far as he can with the under 23's.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 28, 2018, 09:19:47 PM
Before anyone gets over excited with Moore, and i love him just as much as anyone else, however, its far far different having the job perm that was he's doing now. Its literally no pressure because we are virtually down. When the going gets tough in the championship, can Moore get nasty?  If everyone says yes, then maybe deserves a chance. Because for me, you need that nasty streak in your locker at some stage.

I know what you're saying but I tend to disagree, with every respect. I think he's come in at a rubbish time when the team were showing zero confidence and direction. I think Moore's got what it takes.

I'm pretty sure Pardew did nasty. That worked.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on April 29, 2018, 12:53:11 AM
For me it's quite emotional  that big Dave is doing so well and on the back of this I will be at the hawthorns against spurs supporting him ,  only the third attendance  this season, Bournemouth and our Cyrille  tribute along with Brighton away . Shocking considering 35 years a season ticket holder priori to the start of this season
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on April 29, 2018, 07:10:18 AM
Dave Moore as head coach and Shan and Cutler as permanent assistant and GK coach in the new set up?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on April 29, 2018, 07:18:19 AM
Dave Moore as head coach and Shan and Cutler as permanent assistant and GK coach in the new set up?
Would be a brave appointment , fresh and very interesting but a huge gamble which I can't see them taking.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on April 29, 2018, 09:01:50 AM
Dave Moore as head coach and Shan and Cutler as permanent assistant and GK coach in the new set up?
After all this, you put his brother in 😀
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wbarenno on April 29, 2018, 09:24:11 AM
If we do the same in the next two games as we have in the previous four then Darren Moore has to get the job. He has earned it. What more can he do?

My only reservation would be that the team we have now is going to be a totally different team next season. Different squad. Now is Darren Moore the man to rebuild a team and get promotion out of probably the most competitive league in Europe ? Also will he get the same reaction out of the new players coming in? Will they have the same respect for him as the players that know him now that will more then likely be gone next season ?

If we are looking at managers like mcinnes, potter and Appleton then go for Moore. If we want a young hungry coach go for Moore. I'd be more then happy with him. But that's my only worry above !

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on April 29, 2018, 11:48:19 AM
The impression I get is that Shan is the brains behind the operation, Moore is a hell of a motivator mind you, I’d run through a brick wall for him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on April 29, 2018, 12:52:34 PM
Darren Moore should be named "Manager" of the Month

Can't think of anyone who deserves it more, but then again I admit to be being biased!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on April 29, 2018, 02:06:18 PM
Darren has been fantastic as an interim and deserves a job in the new structure, and we are and should be grateful to him.  I thing longer term though we need more experience.  Particularly given we will be rebuilding our squad.  Still, it will bring a smile to my face if we appoint DM, and I will look forward to next season.  I just have this nagging doubt that after all the promising names on here have been discussed we finish up with another "Alan Irvine" moment.  In which case by October we will be begging DM to return from wherever he then is.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: brettsf on April 29, 2018, 03:05:17 PM
we will need a fast start to next season, assuming we're in the Championship, since the games come thick and fast. If we go for an 'experienced ' manager, there will inevitably be another stutter as he and the players get used to each other, whereas Big D will be hit the ground running with the bounce from this season.
We should remember that experience can be good and bad, and is merely one of the important considerations. Ron Atkinson oversaw one of our most exciting eras, and he came with little experience, none in the top flight.Darren will need some help, but it seems he's already getting it, and showing signs of becoming an excellent coach.
For me I think he has earned his chance, and he would appear to have the players on board, and certainly all the fans.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BB74 on April 29, 2018, 06:50:44 PM
Big Dave is apparently praying with the lads before games asking for them to be kept safe during the game etc.

Nice touch if true. Shows he cares. All these little things are helping the team bond and gets the players wanting to run through a brick wall for him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: letmereadposts on April 29, 2018, 07:05:44 PM
Big Dave is apparently praying with the lads before games asking for them to be kept safe during the game etc.

Nice touch if true. Shows he cares. All these little things are helping the team bond and gets the players wanting to run through a brick wall for him.

Sometimes a person just needs the opportunity to prove themselves. Even if Big Dave loses the final two games, he still warrants serious consideration.

If the club doesn't appoint him, and things take a turn for the worse next season, we'll be eternally thinking what could have been had he been given the opportunity.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on April 29, 2018, 08:47:56 PM
The way I see it is folks on here keep talking about taking a huge gamble giving big Dave the job,well its a big gamble giving it to an experienced manager as we've found to our cost.
So a gamble is a gamble regardless of who it is,let Dave learn with us as he progresses its a mutual thang.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on April 29, 2018, 11:41:05 PM
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/04/29/darren-moore-emerges-as-serious-contender-for-west-brom-job-as-ben-foster-urges-board-to-give-him-the-role/

"Darren Moore has emerged as a serious contender for the permanent Albion job after receiving backing from senior members of the dressing room".

Which reads that certain players are happy that they have someone they like in charge, been down that road before, didn't end well. Not interested in mates or cliques, want someone with balls to upset a few when its needed, can Big Dave do that ? will the little clique like being upset by their old mate if he dares to drop them or will we see certain players being picked regardless ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on April 30, 2018, 12:06:10 AM
I think this is a major PR gaff from Foster. Players shouldn't be openly lobbying for any particular candidate and of course the the $60,000 question is "Do any of those making plans to leave like working with Darren Moore so much that they will take a 50% pay cut?" No, thought not.

I am pleased that Foster and Brunt seem to be committed to the club for next year but it really isn't their call who the next coach is. They have to work with whoever the club appoints and in point of fact the harder they lobby for Darren the more an alternative coach is likely to view him as a threat and want him gone rather take him on.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie38 on April 30, 2018, 01:51:52 AM
I think this is a major PR gaff from Foster. Players shouldn't be openly lobbying for any particular candidate and of course the the $60,000 question is "Do any of those making plans to leave like working with Darren Moore so much that they will take a 50% pay cut?" No, thought not.

I am pleased that Foster and Brunt seem to be committed to the club for next year but it really isn't their call who the next coach is. They have to work with whoever the club appoints and in point of fact the harder they lobby for Darren the more an alternative coach is likely to view him as a threat and want him gone rather take him on.   

You are overthinking it. These are model professionals who know how the game works. Absolutely nothing wrong with them voicing their support for big Dave. Fair play to them I say because it takes balls to do that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on April 30, 2018, 04:02:39 AM
Surely" those making plans" are thinking I don't think I'll get what I'm currently being paid at WBA, I'm actually only worth 50% less.
The grass isn't always greener,anyway if they don't want to stay,we didn't want you anyway.
Funny that brunty said he expects a lot to stay,perhaps McLean just wants to go go play for Celtic,so let him go if they are stupid enough to buy a car crash waiting to happen,please go ahead.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on April 30, 2018, 06:30:55 AM
Surely" those making plans" are thinking I don't think I'll get what I'm currently being paid at WBA, I'm actually only worth 50% less.
The grass isn't always greener,anyway if they don't want to stay,we didn't want you anyway.
Funny that brunty said he expects a lot to stay,perhaps McLean just wants to go go play for Celtic,so let him go if they are stupid enough to buy a car crash waiting to happen,please go ahead.

Fair play to McLean, he's got a football ambition, to play for the club he's supported from a kid.
I can accept that rather than players with already probably having more money than they will ever need, wanting to go anywhere else that will pay them even more.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 30, 2018, 06:41:11 AM
Darren got in at the "dirty end" and has learnt "on the job".

Pardew never got his hands dirty, and yet he was appointed manager.
I think we all know someone who has got paper qualifications but are absolutely useless at their job.
To quantify that last statement....
How many people do you know have a driving licence and are useless?

Repeat...
Darren got in at the "dirty end" and has learnt "on the job".
He deserves the job, he has earned the right to do the job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on April 30, 2018, 07:11:18 AM
You are overthinking it. These are model professionals who know how the game works. Absolutely nothing wrong with them voicing their support for big Dave. Fair play to them I say because it takes balls to do that.

If they were model professionals they wouldn't have started to phone it in under Pardew not to mention taxigate. It takes no balls to pipe up in the media when you have a contract and pretty much can't or won't be sacked for doing so. On the other hand it takes brains to hold your tongue.

If the board ask for an opinion they should give it even go and see Jenkins but to go to the media is dumb. If Moore get's the job will he be seen as beholden to a group of senior pro's or if he doesn't and things go badly for his successor are the same players are likely to be accused of sulking because their man didn't get the job.

Surely" those making plans" are thinking I don't think I'll get what I'm currently being paid at WBA, I'm actually only worth 50% less.
The grass isn't always greener,anyway if they don't want to stay,we didn't want you anyway.
Funny that brunty said he expects a lot to stay,perhaps McLean just wants to go go play for Celtic,so let him go if they are stupid enough to buy a car crash waiting to happen,please go ahead.

Very few think I'm lucky to be earning 50% of what I'm currently on. Even if they can't make what they do at the Albion they will be looking to minimise their losses and with an extra year on a contract a decent signing on fee even a 20% wage cut won't leave them too much worse off but they will be a lot better off than they are staying at the Albion.

I suspect that the Senior Pro's are the ones that predate Pulis. e.g. Foster,Brunt, Yacob ,McAuley Dawson and Myhill. Some of whom are out of contract and might be thinking that they might have a better chance of getting the options taken up or a new deal under Moore than a new broom.
Darren got in at the "dirty end" and has learnt "on the job".

Pardew never got his hands dirty, and yet he was appointed manager.
I think we all know someone who has got paper qualifications but are absolutely useless at their job.
To quantify that last statement....
How many people do you know have a driving licence and are useless?

Repeat...
Darren got in at the "dirty end" and has learnt "on the job".
He deserves the job, he has earned the right to do the job.


Nearly everyone I know who has a driving licence is a better driver than someone who has never driven a car.

Besides which Darren is a fully qualified coach. I would have a huge issue giving it anyone who wasn't.

Pardew also learnt on the job is a product of the culture that places effort over technical prowess and "inspirational"  speeches over tactical know-how. He is the generation that had to be dragged kicking and screaming towards a professional coaching education for ex-players many of whom to this day grumble about the requirement for a player to learn the skills of coaching because of their experience as players.

Darren has no more earned this job than any other suitably qualified candidate and would be extremely lucky to get this opportunity to get a Head Coach role at a good Championship club at this stage of his career. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: DaveWBA on April 30, 2018, 08:49:46 AM
I think this is a major PR gaff from Foster. Players shouldn't be openly lobbying for any particular candidate and of course the the $60,000 question is "Do any of those making plans to leave like working with Darren Moore so much that they will take a 50% pay cut?" No, thought not.

I am pleased that Foster and Brunt seem to be committed to the club for next year but it really isn't their call who the next coach is. They have to work with whoever the club appoints and in point of fact the harder they lobby for Darren the more an alternative coach is likely to view him as a threat and want him gone rather take him on.   

I see the logic here, I fear DM is riding the wave of not being Pulis or Pardew.

Can't remember which poster said it but I'm in agreement with their wish for him to win every game as caretaker, then resume next season as part of the coaching staff or assistant manager. If it went sour next season I wouldn't be able to cope with sacking him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 30, 2018, 09:02:24 AM
Nearly everyone I know who has a driving licence is a better driver than someone who has never driven a car.

And yet ironically, it's been a car crash of a season with those two Reginald Molehusbands in charge with all their licences and all of a sudden we're cruising.

Qualifications.  One of my class at Poly years ago was disappointed he was only getting a 2.1 degree, to which the assessor immediately replied:
"Tell you something son, your degree isn't worth a tuppenny toss in the real world of working".
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wappingbaggie on May 01, 2018, 12:31:46 AM
lets say we get 3 points from last 2 games ... at a basic level of analysis/decision making are they really going to decide not to appoint someone who took 11 points from 6 toughish games ...especially given the paucity of available alternative candidates
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on May 01, 2018, 06:37:25 AM
Whatever happens, whoever takes over, whether the players are playing for the shirt of a move, not bothered who stays and who goes........


Thanks Big Dave for putting a smile back on our fans faces and restoring a bit of pride back on the terraces  ;)

Top top man!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kev on May 01, 2018, 08:49:28 AM
Whatever happens, whoever takes over, whether the players are playing for the shirt of a move, not bothered who stays and who goes........


Thanks Big Dave for putting a smile back on our fans faces and restoring a bit of pride back on the terraces  ;)

Top top man!



He is a top man and with what he as achieved now and what he did as a player puts him on the short list of Albion all time legends...And that's why he should not take the job because he will eventually get the sack and I don't want that for him.... He should  remain at the Albion on the coaching staff and be know as a one of the greats ...not if but when he gets the sack he is out of the club.. Do we really want to see his career at the Albion end like that...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: bradleysrocket on May 01, 2018, 09:35:26 AM


He is a top man and with what he as achieved now and what he did as a player puts him on the short list of Albion all time legends...And that's why he should not take the job because he will eventually get the sack and I don't want that for him.... He should  remain at the Albion on the coaching staff and be know as a one of the greats ...not if but when he gets the sack he is out of the club.. Do we really want to see his career at the Albion end like that...
If that’s the chance he wants to take them that’s his professional choice. If he fails as a manager I don’t think anybody will forget all the rest. One thing is for sure, I can’t remember an Albion manager that will have been universally backed by all the fans upon appointment.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on May 01, 2018, 09:44:20 AM
If that’s the chance he wants to take them that’s his professional choice. If he fails as a manager I don’t think anybody will forget all the rest. One thing is for sure, I can’t remember an Albion manager that will have been universally backed by all the fans upon appointment.

That's quite a good point actually.

If its not Darren then as other threads have shown we are very divided on who should be considered. Personally I am not in favour at present BUT the evidence is there for all to see. I echo others views about the players playing for themselves, but something has definitely happened in the dressing room and he really has got them playing as a team. We have been talking about an up and coming new talent like Smith or Potter. Why not Moore?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 01, 2018, 02:57:04 PM
Darren Moore should be named "Manager" of the Month

Can't think of anyone who deserves it more, but then again I admit to be being biased!

Darren Moore has been nominated for April's Barclays Premier League Manager of the Month...

Surely must win it!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Beefy on May 01, 2018, 08:33:04 PM
Get voting ..

https://barclaysfootball.fbapp.io/barclaysmotmnov-dup-dup-dup-2278073/oe8jrmh3
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Jimmy on May 01, 2018, 08:35:20 PM
Isnt a curse usually bestowed upon the winner as well?

Leave that for Mourinho.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 01, 2018, 08:36:14 PM
Get voting ..

https://barclaysfootball.fbapp.io/barclaysmotmnov-dup-dup-dup-2278073/oe8jrmh3

Done
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on May 01, 2018, 11:25:53 PM
Get voting ..

https://barclaysfootball.fbapp.io/barclaysmotmnov-dup-dup-dup-2278073/oe8jrmh3

Would do, but I'm not on Facebook.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: chipperclark on May 02, 2018, 12:32:59 AM
 :D Have to give Big Dave the Assistant role in coaching the team. He has to be there...but I don't want him to be the "fall guy" if things go wrong.

He is getting close to getting his own statue/gates as Legend status...take my hat off to you Big Dave. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on May 02, 2018, 06:59:29 AM
:D Have to give Big Dave the Assistant role in coaching the team. He has to be there...but I don't want him to be the "fall guy" if things go wrong.

He is getting close to getting his own statue/gates as Legend status...take my hat off to you Big Dave. ;D ;D ;D

Maybe Big Dave doesn't want to play second fiddle!
Maybe he figures he's done enough over the last few games to warrant a crack on his own.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: chipperclark on May 02, 2018, 07:03:50 AM
Maybe Big Dave doesn't want to play second fiddle!
Maybe he figures he's done enough over the last few games to warrant a crack on his own.
;D Tuamigos we are of the same vintage,and I agree deep down he probably would like the job....I would also like him to stay at the club for the next 10 years in some capacity....my comment is "I don't want him to be the fall guy" and as you well know a Manager is only as good as his last result.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on May 02, 2018, 07:48:02 AM
;D Tuamigos we are of the same vintage,and I agree deep down he probably would like the job....I would also like him to stay at the club for the next 10 years in some capacity....my comment is [b]"I don't want him to be the fall guy"[/b] and as you well know a Manager is only as good as his last result.

Me neither, but as we both know nice guys get crapped on!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 02, 2018, 12:07:59 PM
Not wanting Moore as manager in case he has to be sacked at a later date is the worst reason not to want him imo...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: dont ask me to choose luv on May 02, 2018, 01:51:16 PM
Not wanting Moore as manager in case he has to be sacked at a later date is the worst reason not to want him imo...

Absobloodylutely, If you don't try, you'll never fail & if you've never failed, you'll never know the sweet taste of success.

If he wants it just give the man the job, 99% of Albion fans love this guy, I doubt there is a current coach/manager around that will galvanise the fans like Big Dave has, call the recent results whatever you like, bounce, luck, players reverse window shopping, DM has restored a lot of pride & no small amount of belief, lets take that into next season, as the new chapter begins.

#giveittobigdave   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on May 02, 2018, 03:35:30 PM
Every manager will end up leaving and more than likely under a cloud.  I can only think of Fergie in recent times.  I guess Roy as we couldn't begrudge him the England job (although I bet a lot did).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on May 02, 2018, 05:01:09 PM
Not wanting Moore as manager in case he has to be sacked at a later date is the worst reason not to want him imo...

I understand the sentiments of those who suggest he shouldn't get the job under the future sacking scenario. On the other hand it does sound a bit like wanting to inject puppies with no grow serum so they can stay cute forever. May as well let 'em grow, give 'em a bit of freedom and see what they do. There's no guarantee they'll sh it all over the place  ;D .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: east-stand-nick on May 02, 2018, 05:09:41 PM
Get voting ..

https://barclaysfootball.fbapp.io/barclaysmotmnov-dup-dup-dup-2278073/oe8jrmh3

What a stupid way of deciding it. Of course Mourinho is going to win that, United have millions of fans across the world.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on May 06, 2018, 08:09:49 AM
I bought the wife's son a tee shirt which said..."What a difference a DAVE makes".
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 06, 2018, 09:49:03 AM
I bought the wife's son a tee shirt which said..."What a difference a DAVE makes".

Top six form. And against three of the top six.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on May 06, 2018, 11:04:21 AM
Excellent droitwich,should have all supporters wearing one over their Albion shirt at the palace game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 06, 2018, 07:12:13 PM
Whilst it's hard to argue against 3 wins and 2 draws (particularly given who we've defeated), I'm hesitating to fully back Big Dave, because his tactics so far have been akin to Pulis #2 (but with legendary club status and a much better personality in Darren's favour), and I really really want us to move away from a "defend for our lives and hope to catch them on the break or from a set piece" mentality. Darren was a solid rock-solid central defender, and I've seen nothing so far to indicate that his style of play will be anything other than that.

I'm trying to view this with my head rather than my heart, and I want to see us approaching games with more attacking flair, which is what Jenkins has said is the Board's aim with their next appointment, and there's absolutely no indication to me that Darren has the mindset or tactical nous, at this stage of his career, to deliver that. Keep Darren here and promote him by all means, but I don't think he's got the experience, flexibility and tactical armoury to be ready for a head coach's role just yet.

If this view makes me a heretic, so be it....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on May 06, 2018, 09:01:07 PM
Whilst it's hard to argue against 3 wins and 2 draws (particularly given who we've defeated), I'm hesitating to fully back Big Dave, because his tactics so far have been akin to Pulis #2 (but with legendary club status and a much better personality in Darren's favour), and I really really want us to move away from a "defend for our lives and hope to catch them on the break or from a set piece" mentality. Darren was a solid rock-solid central defender, and I've seen nothing so far to indicate that his style of play will be anything other than that.

I'm trying to view this with my head rather than my heart, and I want to see us approaching games with more attacking flair, which is what Jenkins has said is the Board's aim with their next appointment, and there's absolutely no indication to me that Darren has the mindset or tactical nous, at this stage of his career, to deliver that. Keep Darren here and promote him by all means, but I don't think he's got the experience, flexibility and tactical armoury to be ready for a head coach's role just yet.

If this view makes me a heretic, so be it....
I agree with you. Yesterday's performance was similar to what we saw under Pulis (when things were going well) but with more crowd passion, and rightly so, because of Big Dave's standing at the club and the momentum in this unlikely survival fight.  We have no idea what approach DM would have next season if given the job. This is the ideal time for a change of tack with a likely high turn over of players and with some luck 3 or 4 of our own being given chance to step up in the next year or two.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on May 07, 2018, 02:49:23 AM
Whilst it's hard to argue against 3 wins and 2 draws (particularly given who we've defeated), I'm hesitating to fully back Big Dave, because his tactics so far have been akin to Pulis #2 (but with legendary club status and a much better personality in Darren's favour), and I really really want us to move away from a "defend for our lives and hope to catch them on the break or from a set piece" mentality. Darren was a solid rock-solid central defender, and I've seen nothing so far to indicate that his style of play will be anything other than that.

I'm trying to view this with my head rather than my heart, and I want to see us approaching games with more attacking flair, which is what Jenkins has said is the Board's aim with their next appointment, and there's absolutely no indication to me that Darren has the mindset or tactical nous, at this stage of his career, to deliver that. Keep Darren here and promote him by all means, but I don't think he's got the experience, flexibility and tactical armoury to be ready for a head coach's role just yet.

If this view makes me a heretic, so be it....

I respect your opinion but have to disagree. Are you expecting swash buckling attacking play and a complete change in philosophy in 5 games? We have also played Man Utd, Spurs and Liverpool. From a team that had lost 9 straight games do you think we would start to out football top 4 teams? i think Big Dave is actually clever, he realized the squad we have and what our strengths are. He wanted to win games and this was the best way to do it. Its not his squad and yet he is getting the best out of underperforming players. I don't think you could say what his "style" of play is until he was given his own chance to build a squad and put his stamp on the team. Man management is so important and Big Dave seems to have that in abundance.
Wasn't Tony Mowbray and bruising centre half in his playing days and yet he loves a team of "Artists" :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on May 07, 2018, 08:32:27 AM
I have to say that tactically DM has been spot on for the games we have played so far. Against Spurs any team in our position would set up fairly defensively and in my view we did this very well.  Tactically he has payed to the strengths of Dawson and Hegazi, he has the best out of Phillips who looks a changed person over the last few games and the substitutions make a difference.  One (of very many) mistakes Pardew made was to try and change a style of play too quickly and it did not work.  I think DM will play exciting football, he just recognises it will take some time to achieve. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 07, 2018, 09:18:39 AM
I respect your opinion but have to disagree. Are you expecting swash buckling attacking play and a complete change in philosophy in 5 games? We have also played Man Utd, Spurs and Liverpool. From a team that had lost 9 straight games do you think we would start to out football top 4 teams? i think Big Dave is actually clever, he realized the squad we have and what our strengths are. He wanted to win games and this was the best way to do it. Its not his squad and yet he is getting the best out of underperforming players. I don't think you could say what his "style" of play is until he was given his own chance to build a squad and put his stamp on the team. Man management is so important and Big Dave seems to have that in abundance.
Wasn't Tony Mowbray and bruising centre half in his playing days and yet he loves a team of "Artists" :)
I can only base my opinion what's happened so far with the style of play. Anything else is just speculation by all of us. I agree with you regarding man management and, should Darren get the job, I'll back him and will be interested to hear him state his intentions during the close season regarding the style of play. All I'm saying is that I'm desperate for us to have someone at the helm who can demonstrate that it's possible to be successful using a different playing style to the likes of Pulis, Allardyce etc.

You're correct about Mogga, but I would regard him as being more the exception rather than the rule.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on May 07, 2018, 10:13:00 AM
I can only base my opinion what's happened so far with the style of play. Anything else is just speculation by all of us. I agree with you regarding man management and, should Darren get the job, I'll back him and will be interested to hear him state his intentions during the close season regarding the style of play. All I'm saying is that I'm desperate for us to have someone at the helm who can demonstrate that it's possible to be successful using a different playing style to the likes of Pulis, Allardyce etc.

You're correct about Mogga, but I would regard him as being more the exception rather than the rule.

I agree with your sentiment and in general with coaches, what you see is what you get. I never believed that Pulis would change although plenty of posters clung to the notion that he would.

In Darren's defence because his career is in his infancy and he has been given one task which is to steady a rudderless ship then maybe you cannot judge on what we have seen to date. If that is the case we can't judge either way and maybe 6 games is just too few to make a judgement about him being able to step up to the Head Coach role but many of us are happy to do just that.

Darren gets a free pass from the fans because of who is but eventually if we are playing dreary unimaginative football that free pass will run out.  If we ever want to fill those empty seats in the Hawthorns we need to play attractive football or at least not the pig ugly brand associated with the British Old School Gaffers.

I certainly hope that Pardew is not seen as the model for progressive football and therefore used as an excuse to revert to Pulisball. Pardew was an empty suit it doesn't matter what style of football you choose to adopt if you lack basic competence as a coach it won't end well.

I watched Sunday Supplement on Sky yesterday and the London/Manchester based journalists made the point that the Potteries and the Black Country were largely blue collar areas and that their teams e.g. Stoke and ourselves needed to reflect this is in first and foremost be hard working even if the football was not always that pretty.

Setting aside the slightly patronising tone they have a point and plenty of posters on here talk about "putting a shift in" but they miss the bigger picture. Football clubs in blue collar communities are where fans go to be elevated beyond the everyday to dream a little be inspired and nobody dreams of watching Pulisball.

We are desperate for a progressive coach whoever is next has to lay down a style that is just that. The challenge for Darren Moore is if he is appointed he has to be that coach for all the goodwill he has and will continue to have that is where he will have to take us. 

 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 07, 2018, 11:02:31 AM
20 points from the first possible 96.
11 from the next possible 15.

In the words of Paul Robinson if they don't offer it him at least it will be a scandal in my opinion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on May 07, 2018, 11:13:43 AM
Even Alan Pardew who I'm quite happy to label as one of the worst managers to ever be inflicted upon the club has had spells of 6 games where he has run at 2 points a game or better. We are making a long term decision (hopefully) based on short term results.

It won't be a scandal if the board don't offer him the position.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on May 07, 2018, 11:23:48 AM
Trouble is I find those people who complain about players not putting a shift in are also the same ones that berate players like McClean for not being good enough.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on May 07, 2018, 03:07:45 PM
Even Alan Pardew who I'm quite happy to label as one of the worst managers to ever be inflicted upon the club has had spells of 6 games where he has run at 2 points a game or better. We are making a long term decision (hopefully) based on short term results.

It won't be a scandal if the board don't offer him the position.
will be a scandle if board **** up next pick and Dave shows his capabilities else where, he`s done a fantastic job just to keep us in with a sniff of staying up and your relying on board who left clueless in charge for to long God help us
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 07, 2018, 04:33:30 PM
Even Alan Pardew who I'm quite happy to label as one of the worst managers to ever be inflicted upon the club has had spells of 6 games where he has run at 2 points a game or better. We are making a long term decision (hopefully) based on short term results.

It won't be a scandal if the board don't offer him the position.


You infamously said we should name the Hawthorns after Darren if he kept us up...


It will be scandalous if he doesn't get the chance AND the next manager makes a hash of it.



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on May 07, 2018, 04:44:01 PM

You infamously said we should name the Hawthorns after Darren if he kept us up...


It will be scandalous if he doesn't get the chance AND the next manager makes a hash of it.
That is easy to say when you don't have the responsibility of making the decision. Personally I don't wants big Dave. We need to change the way we play, to evolve. Its fine  sitting back against elite clubs but next season teams are going to park the bus. Big Dave simply won't be able to handle all the changes that are imminent.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on May 07, 2018, 05:20:52 PM

You infamously said we should name the Hawthorns after Darren if he kept us up...


It will be scandalous if he doesn't get the chance AND the next manager makes a hash of it.

No just a stand and we still should. We have a chance but it is an 80/1 shot at best.  I'll try not recall the criticism that he shipped post Swansea for dropping a couple of vital points which at the time didn't seem all that vital.

Ultimately whoever comes in may fail and there is nothing to suggest that Darren or is less likely to do so than .

The question is if Darren does keep us up the list at the top of the page changes and do we get seduced by the big names that suddenly become available?  The irony is we could be watching  a new Head Coach's team from the Darren Moore stand.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on May 07, 2018, 08:22:04 PM
Does anyone remember that famous picture of Dave facing a young Rooney who has his foot on the ball,can't remember the match but a great picture ,grateful if someone could put it up on here.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Chipperfan on May 08, 2018, 07:50:05 AM
Martin Samuels take in the Daily Mail, looking at whether DM should get the job and contrasting his record to those of Appleton and Smith. An interesting read.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5700651/MARTIN-SAMUEL-West-Brom-lack-respect-Darren-Moores-magic-touch.html
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on May 08, 2018, 08:25:24 AM
He has to be given a year, we could be missing out on a great manager here. Every appointment is a risk.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on May 08, 2018, 08:26:17 AM
And can we re-run the poll?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: bradleysrocket on May 08, 2018, 09:03:04 AM
Martin Samuels take in the Daily Mail, looking at whether DM should get the job and contrasting his record to those of Appleton and Smith. An interesting read.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5700651/MARTIN-SAMUEL-West-Brom-lack-respect-Darren-Moores-magic-touch.html
Speaks a lot of sense, from somebody not in any way aligned to the club. Obviously ex players have clamoured for Moore, it seems everyone thinks Moore deserves a crack. Everyone except those within the club boardroom. Having read that article it’s hard to see how Appleton is even viewed as a viable alternative at all. Give ‘im a goo.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on May 08, 2018, 09:59:11 AM
Having read the article in The Mail I would tend to agree with Martin Samuels. He speaks a lot of sense and why should the position go to someone 'less deserving' than Darren. He has stepped into the role and as well as out performing both Pulis and Pardew he conducted himself really well in a way that I would want a manger to represent the club.
His after match interviews come across really well, he obviously loves the club and has grown into this job. There are so many reasons why he should have the job and very few why he shouldn't. All this lack of experience business is a poor excuse for not appointing him, whilst the ones with so called experience are not that special anyway. This dithering about could cost us in the long term. The next few weeks will be vital (whatever happens between now and next Sunday) but to retain Darren would be a major statement by the club and show that we actually mean business and will back someone who undoubtedly wants this club to do well, embraces the supporters, can organise and motivate players and has brought smiles back to this club.
To those is charge --JUST GET ON WITH IT.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on May 08, 2018, 10:02:14 AM
I'd agree with that but what about the fans who put the style of football ahead of everything else?   We don't know if Big Dave will play a more expansive game in the future and he is having to work with a squad with limitations - but, IF the way we're playing now is indicative about how we'd play in the future there'll be a lot of unhappy fans around.

Personally, I think the results mean everything - if we're winning and picking up points then people won't care how we play of who's in charge.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on May 08, 2018, 10:35:33 AM
IF Darren is so in tune with the club and the fans he will know that we want more entertaining football, however he doesn't have the tools to make that happen at the moment.
Is he capable of building what we (Standaman and myself to name 2) want? Thats a total unknown, I do believe its too big a gamble to give to a untried coach, BUT put the correct man alongside him and it reduces the risk.

Clough & Taylor, Ferguson and Kidd, Ferguson & Carlos Queiroz, Wenger & Bould, Anfield boot room,  Lone coaches are not the way to sustained success, even the capped one had Kempey FFS !
Yes Darren and Shan seem to be a team but I maintain that somewhere in the organisation we need a mentor if we are going to let Darren take the reins in SUCH an important time in the clubs history.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on May 08, 2018, 05:05:34 PM
well done indeed to Darren Moore
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on May 08, 2018, 05:07:31 PM
Fantastic news that he's won Manager of the Month!

No one deserves it more than he does!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on May 08, 2018, 05:13:23 PM
Well done Darren :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on May 08, 2018, 05:17:21 PM
Great news and fully deserved.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 08, 2018, 05:19:44 PM
Barclays Premier League Manager of the Month for April 2018.


Superb from the big man.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hardtobeat on May 08, 2018, 05:29:52 PM
The one thing the appointment of Big D would do is re unify / re connect a club that has become very fractured and divided. No other candidate would be able to do that in as short a space of time regardless of their experience something the board need to take into consideration when making the next , vital appointment
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on May 08, 2018, 05:36:07 PM
Congratulations Big Dave. Fully deserved.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Critical Baggie on May 08, 2018, 05:40:21 PM
There's only one Big Dave! More than fully deserved, I think it would not be a tragedy we don't ride on this upturn and give him the job for next season now. Just imagine how awful it'd feel if we change and fall into another rubbish spell given most our squad seem to have issues with getting along with the manager...I say rise on the momentum and give him the job!!

Also really nice touch him brining out all the staff for his award, what a humble gentleman.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on May 08, 2018, 06:06:32 PM
Congratulations Dave now give him the job!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kirk on May 08, 2018, 06:37:23 PM
It’s a real shame the colour of his skin has been mentioned regarding why he hasn’t been given the job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on May 08, 2018, 06:38:00 PM
No don't give him the job. There is a world of difference between his current role and the one he'd  be expected to carry out next season. Fans are more than happy to concede possession for a result against Man U and Spurs but do that at home to Norwich and Brentford will soon bring the knives out. We have to evolve as a club and this is the perfect opportunity. This is a massive appointment that will determine the next five years or so. We must look at the bigger picture.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tommcneill on May 08, 2018, 06:38:48 PM
Excellent news for Darren..fully deserved

should he get the job FT? If we go down YES, if we stay up? I’m undecided
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on May 08, 2018, 06:40:15 PM
It’s a real shame the colour of his skin has been mentioned regarding why he hasn’t been given the job.
That's just pathetic to be honest. Some people just can't help themselves.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on May 08, 2018, 07:01:52 PM
It’s a real shame the colour of his skin has been mentioned regarding why he hasn’t been given the job.

As far as I'm aware, the permanent head coach job hasn't been filled yet.

Non white managers in football has been a contentious issue in football circles for some time now, so it was inevitable it would be commented on.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 08, 2018, 07:03:45 PM
After the terrific run of games he engineered, as I said earlier in this thread, I couldn’t think of anyone who deserves it more.

Well done Darren and thank you for restoring pride to the club and the ride of hope!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 08, 2018, 07:10:33 PM
As far as I'm aware, the permanent head coach job hasn't been filled yet.

Non white managers in football has been a contentious issue in football circles for some time now, so it was inevitable it would be commented on.


This I do agree with even a club with our rich history is not above scrutiny. Black coaches are under represented and given Moore's record looking from the outside in it must be baffling to other fans and the media that he isn't hot favourite for the position.


We know it's a big job with a big rebuild ahead. Others just see Champions League form against Champions League teams.


The issue was bound to come up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on May 08, 2018, 07:15:00 PM
It's an incredible achievement for him. I think he above all will be thinking, 'if only I had taken over sooner'. Tremendous accolade for him and he thoroughly deserves it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on May 08, 2018, 07:15:29 PM
It’s a real shame the colour of his skin has been mentioned regarding why he hasn’t been given the job.

I heard a comment, possibly from Liam Rosenior pre-empting that he won't get it because he's black, it could've been somebody else but surely pre-empting racism is a problem too?!

The reasons he may not get it are all here on this board; is he a long term answer? Will he play the right style? Is he ready for a long Championship season where we'll be expected to take the game to teams? If we stay up will he offer evolution of the playing style?

Personally i think we can't judge his style on what he's done so far, he's got it bang on in every game since Swansea and even in that game he stopped the losing streak.

Big well done and deserved award.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: vrabbit on May 08, 2018, 07:18:27 PM
Excellent news for Darren..fully deserved

should he get the job FT? If we go down YES, if we stay up? I’m undecided

this is where I'm at. DM has done an outstanding job with the current group we have given the limitations of the roster. But does have a long term plan in place for next season? He's never done that before so I wonder about that, although admittedly being prepared is not something he fails at. But that is something I'd focus on when considering him as a long term manager in the PL. What's the plan? Surely you're not banking on McClean and Nyom as starters for a full season. How do you deal with Chadli? Many questions.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 08, 2018, 07:27:10 PM
this is where I'm at. DM has done an outstanding job with the current group we have given the limitations of the roster. But does have a long term plan in place for next season? He's never done that before so I wonder about that, although admittedly being prepared is not something he fails at. But that is something I'd focus on when considering him as a long term manager in the PL. What's the plan? Surely you're not banking on McClean and Nyom as starters for a full season. How do you deal with Chadli? Many questions.


In the Championship this is the least of our worries, both will be far above average in their respective positions.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 08, 2018, 07:28:24 PM
How very typical of the man

Darren Moore Shares Premier League Manager Of The Month Prize With Over 100 Staff


Source: http://www.sportbible.com/football/news-reactions-darren-moore-shares-pl-manager-of-the-month-prize-with-over-100-staff-20180508
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: vrabbit on May 08, 2018, 07:49:08 PM

In the Championship this is the least of our worries, both will be far above average in their respective positions.

granted, but my questions were in the scenario where we actually pull off the survival to remain in the PL
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggies_24 on May 08, 2018, 07:50:04 PM
Brilliant achievement delighted for the big man. I’d give him the job but I’d want the club to support him with an experienced first team coach and a strong director of football who can provide the support and structure he will need to succeed next season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on May 08, 2018, 08:07:04 PM
How very typical of the man

Darren Moore Shares Premier League Manager Of The Month Prize With Over 100 Staff


Source: http://www.sportbible.com/football/news-reactions-darren-moore-shares-pl-manager-of-the-month-prize-with-over-100-staff-20180508
He is a genuinely lovely man he really is. As a human being people really should look at him and use him as a role model. Arguably the nicest most down to earth and genuine man you'll ever come across.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on May 08, 2018, 08:28:18 PM
No don't give him the job. There is a world of difference between his current role and the one he'd  be expected to carry out next season. Fans are more than happy to concede possession for a result against Man U and Spurs but do that at home to Norwich and Brentford will soon bring the knives out. We have to evolve as a club and this is the perfect opportunity. This is a massive appointment that will determine the next five years or so. We must look at the bigger picture.

He is doing what he needs to do to get results now. I don't think the tactics of this season shed any light on the tactics he would impose next season if he got the job full time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 08, 2018, 08:30:59 PM
He is doing what he needs to do to get results now. I don't think the tactics of this season shed any light on the tactics he would impose next season if he got the job full time.


Spot on. He's adapted to every game tactically. Anyone who wants to go toe to toe with United Liverpool and Spurs is either naive or stupid.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on May 08, 2018, 08:37:02 PM

Spot on. He's adapted to every game tactically. Anyone who wants to go toe to toe with United Liverpool and Spurs is either naive or stupid.

His substitutions and in game management has been excellent as well. He's really shown a knack for tactical awareness. I really think we are witnessing the birth of an excellent man manager with excellent tactical awareness. It is a bigger risk to let him go than it is to give him the job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on May 08, 2018, 08:39:36 PM
It’s a real shame the colour of his skin has been mentioned regarding why he hasn’t been given the job.

Some people will cling onto anything to try to raise this issue. Never mind the fact he has been put in charge now, that doesn't count does it...

The racism card is a real bug bear of mine. Maybe because I've been on the receiving end of racism from PoC so much.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on May 08, 2018, 08:46:08 PM
If Dave becomes our manager it proves once more that our club is in the vanguard.
He will get it on merit not his colour,that's it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on May 08, 2018, 08:48:28 PM
I've not seen or heard nor have i myself even once considered his colour.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnwilliamso20 on May 08, 2018, 09:14:57 PM
I've not seen or heard nor have i myself even once considered his colour.

Kevin Campbell has been at it too.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11698/11363161/darren-moore8217s-west-brom-future-why-would-he-not-get-the-job
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: vrabbit on May 08, 2018, 09:41:20 PM
now that we're officially headed to the Championship I'm 100% behind giving this to job to DM.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 08, 2018, 11:03:19 PM
now that we're officially headed to the Championship I'm 100% behind giving this to job to DM.


GIVE HIM THE JOB.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 08, 2018, 11:14:19 PM

Spot on. He's adapted to every game tactically. Anyone who wants to go toe to toe with United Liverpool and Spurs is either naive or stupid.

Precisely the qualities you need for the Chumps.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: saml30 on May 09, 2018, 05:21:19 AM

In the Championship this is the least of our worries, both will be far above average in their respective positions.

I feel your one of theses people underestimating just how hard the championship is these days, it’s a different monster since we were last here, for me neither of them will be good enough
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: swad35 on May 09, 2018, 06:38:01 AM
His substitutions and in game management has been excellent as well. He's really shown a knack for tactical awareness. I really think we are witnessing the birth of an excellent man manager with excellent tactical awareness. It is a bigger risk to let him go than it is to give him the job.

Couldn't agree more, not a reason to take him solely but imagine he might get a few offers at the end of the season. Wouldn't want to face him in the championship. I find myself checking myself that I'm not getting too carried away with him as our manager but I think he will be a success. My only question mark is in the transfer market, with his lack of experience but I'm sure he will have others to help. To be honest after recent efforts he might be a breathe of fresh air there to.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on May 09, 2018, 10:47:46 AM
My only doubt with Big Dave getting the job is not even down to his ability.

What concerns me is how much player power there seems to be, yes some are backing Big Dave which is great, but i also think its quite disgraceful that they seemed to down tools under Pulis and Pardew (both who wasnt blameless) but then as its a manager they now like they seem to be trying again.

This wasnt one or two players who stopped under Pulis and Pardew, that happens at most clubs, it seemed it was a lot of the squad, what happens if things go sour for a bit under Moore (and they will, it happens at all clubs) do these players then just down tools again til they get another manager they play for.

This is where the tough bit will be for Big Dave, he probably has to take into account how some of these players performed and their mentality under Pulis and Pardew and get rid of them, he saw it for himself.

It may even be some of those who have supported him but i think there seems to be too much player power and i think they need to be got rid of, even if it means making some unpopular decisions.

For all the efforts the last few weeks (and they have done brilliant) it cannot disguise that for 7 and half months of the season the players have been rubbish and on various occasions not even seemed to try, yet on paper we looked to have a strong squad and they have shown the last month that actually they can actually play a bit and can be a decent side, however the fact remains for majority of the season they werent at it and we are now relegated.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 09, 2018, 11:03:53 AM
I did wonder how bad Morrison and Chadli's injuries have been and was the prolonged sick bay anything to do with attitude?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on May 09, 2018, 11:15:09 AM
6 games undefeated when we are as good as down doesn't swing it for me. The players who couldn't give a toss all season are playing for a move.
Next week most of them will be saying, See ya Big Dave.
Is Darren Moore the man to rebuild the team?
Let's not let our love of Darren Moore cloud our judgement.
Tony Barton, Brian Little, Brian Talbot, all did well initially as stand in's.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Jack Thrust on May 09, 2018, 11:33:35 AM
It's interesting that apparently only our players are playing for a move and not those at Stoke or Swansea.

For me Darren has to get the job, he seems to me to embody everything we have been lacking this season. Commitment, professionalism, passion and pride in the club. Take some time to read what people who know him have been saying about his coaching credentials. He started down this road when he was still a player, he hasn't just ended up in this position accidentally and equally accidentally made a success of it. He knows what he is doing and he has known that this is what he wanted for many years.

I think people are making assumptions about his ability based on the fact he is a "nice guy", however I definitely think he has got some inner steel. He certainly wasn't a "nice guy" on the pitch in his playing days I remember him as giving the opposition no quarter. I have no doubt that as a coach he would be able to bring a whinging prima donna down a peg or two if need be.

That Darren's success has happened with us is a happy coincidence for both parties and we should be making the most of this opportunity in my view.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 09, 2018, 12:21:34 PM
I feel your one of theses people underestimating just how hard the championship is these days, it’s a different monster since we were last here, for me neither of them will be good enough


Going off topic but it's the opposite you are overestimating our task. The Championship is bilge.


Nyom for example is a better right full back than Doherty who has just won the league.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on May 09, 2018, 12:21:45 PM
In this day and age people tend to rise to the top because they have some grit and determination as well as having to sort a few people out en route.
I would think that Darren has come across a few in his rise to where he is that he has had to 'overcome'.
The fact that he is where he is now proves to me that he is capable of sorting out players with over inflated ego's. After all he has side lined Evans for the last period of time which was something Pardew failed to do. I believe he will be a complete breath of fresh air and the best solution all round would be to give him the job permanently before Sundays game and then all the rumours and conjecture will be over with and Darren can get on with what he obviously does best - Manage our club.

The longer this goes on the more it becomes a soap opera and we don't need another of those.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Jack Thrust on May 09, 2018, 12:53:13 PM
As further evidence of Darren's "inner steel" I present this extract from In Pastures Green by Chris Lepcowski where Sir Bob Taylor recounts an encounter between Moore and Clinton Morrison before THAT game in 2002.

“For some reason, Clinton Morrison wanted to humiliate us,” said Taylor. “He’d come out with some rubbish during the week and the manager stuck the clippings on the board. Mooro put Morrison in his place before the game. He was heading off to Japan and Korea with Ireland for the World Cup and Mooro just went over, glared at him and said: ‘Do you want to go to the World Cup or not?’ Mooro didn’t need to say any more. He just glared and that was it. Morrison barely touched the ball."
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tylerm on May 09, 2018, 01:09:47 PM
My heart would love Darren Moore to get the job and he has done a fantastic job for the last few games.
However, he has done well by reverting to the style played by Pulis, which to a certain extent worked against the top clubs, ie limited possession and make the most of set pieces. I want us to progress from that, we will need to in the championship, and have majority of possession and be dangerous in open play. Can Darren change the style to that and buy the players to make it happen. Not sure.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: koren on May 09, 2018, 01:45:23 PM
We should be relegated much earlier, it's Moore to keep our dream alive for few more weeks.
No matter he get the job permanently or not, he really deserves big credit and I want to say a big thank you to him.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on May 09, 2018, 01:59:54 PM
Darren Moore should be offered the position.

The evidence is there to support his abilities. Just like the evidence was there last season to show us that Pulis was on the beach and had no intention of moving forward, or the evidence after our first two fortunate wins at the start of the season that he had gone past his sell by date, or the evidence that Pardew was not up to the task with his appalling results and leadership, Darren has stepped up to the mark and delivered. When he was first appointed all we wanted was to have a modicum of pride restored. He has more than delivered that.

I think he should be offered the position for the start of next season. If it looks as though we are not going in the right direction then we consider a restructure, but I think that he has more than earned the chance to manage the team, assuming he wants it of course.

Whichever way this goes, I would like to thank Darren for what he has done so far - magnificent.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on May 09, 2018, 04:42:31 PM

Going off topic but it's the opposite you are overestimating our task. The Championship is bilge.


Nyom for example is a better right full back than Doherty who has just won the league.

Got to agree to an extent, take Neves, Jota, Boly and Cavaleiro out of that Wolves squad (who are exceptional players at Championship standard) and there isn't a single player that would get in our current starting XI. The likes of Ruddy, Doherty, Bennett, Batth, Douglas, Coady etc. are absolute dross at PL level but they get away with it because they have a handful of players that are far too good for the Championship. The issue we have, is that our players who are far too good for the Championship (Chadli, Rondon, Evans etc.) won't be sticking around. The likes of Nyom and McClean are fine if you have a few Chadli's or Jota's in your team, but there's every chance that we won't have those sort of players next season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Jimmy on May 09, 2018, 04:46:03 PM
Not going to lie, I am absolutely gutted we are going down. Saying that though, Darren Moore allowed us to go down with some honour intact.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Cantello on May 09, 2018, 06:18:29 PM
Darren Moore should be offered the position.

The evidence is there to support his abilities. Just like the evidence was there last season to show us that Pulis was on the beach and had no intention of moving forward, or the evidence after our first two fortunate wins at the start of the season that he had gone past his sell by date, or the evidence that Pardew was not up to the task with his appalling results and leadership, Darren has stepped up to the mark and delivered. When he was first appointed all we wanted was to have a modicum of pride restored. He has more than delivered that.

I think he should be offered the position for the start of next season. If it looks as though we are not going in the right direction then we consider a restructure, but I think that he has more than earned the chance to manage the team, assuming he wants it of course.

Whichever way this goes, I would like to thank Darren for what he has done so far - magnificent.   

Another very eloquent argument.  The evidence is staring us in the face.  We all wanted our club back, didn’t we? Our club is embodied in Darren Moore.  We’d be crazy not to take the risk with him.  It may be a steep learning curve in the championship, but he’d have so much goodwill behind him. A massive vote for DM here.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 10, 2018, 07:49:35 AM
Discussing whether Darren should be given the Head Coaches job at West Brom on TalkSport now, Alan Brazil Show
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on May 10, 2018, 08:12:57 AM
Another very eloquent argument.  The evidence is staring us in the face.  We all wanted our club back, didn’t we? Our club is embodied in Darren Moore.  We’d be crazy not to take the risk with him.  It may be a steep learning curve in the championship, but he’d have so much goodwill behind him. A massive vote for DM here.
A lot of us want positive football too to be entertained. The way Darren has set up his teams hasn't shown he is capable of delivering that. it won't matter when we beat Man Utd playing that way but it will matter when we're playing the likes of Millwall and Ipswich.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on May 10, 2018, 08:39:09 AM
A lot of us want positive football too to be entertained. The way Darren has set up his teams hasn't shown he is capable of delivering that. it won't matter when we beat Man Utd playing that way but it will matter when we're playing the likes of Millwall and Ipswich.

So perhaps he will change his tactics accordingly. He should be given the chance.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on May 10, 2018, 08:47:49 AM
Remains a massive no from me.

Ultimately he may be given the job and prove me wrong, and if he were given the job I would love for him to prove me wrong, I can't think of many former players who are held in the same esteem as Big Dave with our fans, perhaps only Bomber and Super Bob of those still alive so all i would want is for him to succeed.

Sadly, I just cannot look past the circumstances surrounding the upturn in form and what would be required moving forward and for me it points to bringing in someone who has the experience to deal with what is to come, not someone to learn on the job. It is a unique set of circumstances, there was no pressure on the players when he took charge, they were clearly glad to see the back of Pardew and as a man Big Dave is loved by all, who couldn't love him, and so the players were always going to put the effort in for him (questions raised as to why they weren't putting it in before despite the manager). There is no denying the achievement, but the pressure will be right back on for next season with whoever is in charge, we will be one of the favourites to win the league, rightly so, and therefore the goalposts completely change. We need someone who has experience of at least planning for an entire season, whatever the level, and the dealing with the turbulent times that a full season brings.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on May 10, 2018, 09:25:57 AM
As further evidence of Darren's "inner steel" I present this extract from In Pastures Green by Chris Lepcowski where Sir Bob Taylor recounts an encounter between Moore and Clinton Morrison before THAT game in 2002.

“For some reason, Clinton Morrison wanted to humiliate us,” said Taylor. “He’d come out with some rubbish during the week and the manager stuck the clippings on the board. Mooro put Morrison in his place before the game. He was heading off to Japan and Korea with Ireland for the World Cup and Mooro just went over, glared at him and said: ‘Do you want to go to the World Cup or not?’ Mooro didn’t need to say any more. He just glared and that was it. Morrison barely touched the ball."
Very good point mate. A lot of people seem to want to wrap him up in cotton wool, and not offer him the job, to "protect" him from failure. Well the above proves that there is a different side to him and, just because he's a calm and humble, decent guy it does not mean he is weak.
Physically, the bloke is a man mountain, but I think his inner strength is his biggest asset.
I also think, because he is more in tune with the players and the fans, rather than consumed by his own ego, like both Pardew and Pulis, he will be more flexible and open to new ideas. That makes him the perfect fit to lead us into the new season, IMO
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: miggybaggy on May 10, 2018, 09:35:56 AM
Jesus, a lot of posters are making very eloquent and persuasive arguments in favour of, and against appointing Darren Moore. I have a pounding headache!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on May 10, 2018, 10:15:06 AM
Remains a massive no from me.

Ultimately he may be given the job and prove me wrong, and if he were given the job I would love for him to prove me wrong, I can't think of many former players who are held in the same esteem as Big Dave with our fans, perhaps only Bomber and Super Bob of those still alive so all i would want is for him to succeed.

Sadly, I just cannot look past the circumstances surrounding the upturn in form and what would be required moving forward and for me it points to bringing in someone who has the experience to deal with what is to come, not someone to learn on the job. It is a unique set of circumstances, there was no pressure on the players when he took charge, they were clearly glad to see the back of Pardew and as a man Big Dave is loved by all, who couldn't love him, and so the players were always going to put the effort in for him (questions raised as to why they weren't putting it in before despite the manager). There is no denying the achievement, but the pressure will be right back on for next season with whoever is in charge, we will be one of the favourites to win the league, rightly so, and therefore the goalposts completely change. We need someone who has experience of at least planning for an entire season, whatever the level, and the dealing with the turbulent times that a full season brings.


My feelings entirely. He had no pressure on him at all because we were dead men walking.
The teams we got points from probably thought they only had to turn up.
This might seem harsh but next season there will be huge pressure and expectation from the owner as well as from the fans.
Tony Mowbray once said he would hate to manage Boro in case he was a failure. Well he did and he was.
I would hate to see it happen to Big Dave.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on May 10, 2018, 10:24:01 AM
A lot of us want positive football too to be entertained. The way Darren has set up his teams hasn't shown he is capable of delivering that. it won't matter when we beat Man Utd playing that way but it will matter when we're playing the likes of Millwall and Ipswich.

Sorry but this just wrong. You have no way of proving how Moore would approach a 46 game season tactically.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on May 10, 2018, 10:31:23 AM
Sorry but this just wrong. You have no way of proving how Moore would approach a 46 game season tactically.


It isn't wrong because you have no idea how he would approach it either. The only evidence any of us have is his mind set during the run in. His approach has been to use senior pro's, concede possession and with increasing regularity use the long ball option. Against Spurs we barely passed the ball at all.

Next season is going to need a completely different style of management and a completely different mind set that supporters will also need to buy into. The noises coming from out of the club suggest that they realise the need for progression which is the correct approach. I think supporters need to also understand that need.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on May 10, 2018, 10:52:04 AM
Ultimately it's a risk either way.

If we appoint him, it's a risk that the last few games have been a flash in the pan, he won't be able to adapt tactically to the championship and won't be able to manage a squad across an entire season.

If we don't appoint him, it's a risk we appoint another duff and let go a potentially very good manager.

Unfortunately we don't know which way it's going to go - we just have to hope the guys that get paid to make the right decision finally get one right!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on May 10, 2018, 11:03:32 AM
I would like to see him get the job, if it dont work it dont work but that applies for any manager coming in.

Big Dave may not even want the job, but if he does its hard to see what else he could of actually done.

When he took over there was apathy at the games like i cannot remember before, Big Dave changed all that but he could only do that with the players buying into what he was doing, ultimately we all love Big Dave but its only the blokes on the pitch who can change the mood with their performances and they did.

Whether it was pressure was off, we were already down, teams took us too easy, they hated Pardew / Pulis, the fact remains the players have put in performances under Moore (serious questions need to be asked why they hadnt before) Players seem to buy into what he is trying to do and nowadays players have too much power for that to be ignored.

Big Dave has made the best of a rubbish situation, he has gone back to the methods that kept these players up comfortably for the two previous seasons which in turn gave us a slight chance of staying up that we didnt have a month ago, i would say that is very good coaching and management to do that.

In 5 months Pardew couldnt get us to be a good footballing side so no way Big Dave was going to in 5 weeks, he dealt with the situation as it was.

We need a rebuild and yes he may lack experience but the one big advantage he has is that he knows these players, he has been a assistant coach, first team coach and now a manager so he has worked with these for a while now and so will know their strengths and weaknesses and who needs to be shipped out, also i believe he had a strong role in the academy setup so if him and Jimmy Shan dont know if / who the players who could step up, nobody will!

None of us know what style he will play, none of know if he will be a success or failure but i personally feel after a trial audition the last month he has earnt the right to have a go at the top job if he wants it, the club needed uniting, Big Dave could do a lot regarding that just by being Big Dave but from the admittedly small evidence so far, he looks as though he can coach and manage too.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on May 10, 2018, 11:09:01 AM

It isn't wrong because you have no idea how he would approach it either. The only evidence any of us have is his mind set during the run in. His approach has been to use senior pro's, concede possession and with increasing regularity use the long ball option. Against Spurs we barely passed the ball at all.

Next season is going to need a completely different style of management and a completely different mind set that supporters will also need to buy into. The noises coming from out of the club suggest that they realise the need for progression which is the correct approach. I think supporters need to also understand that need.


Do you think that could be down to the limited resources available and what they have been trained to do for the last three years? He can hardly turn them into Barcelona overnight can he?

BTW, I do understand the need for next season :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: DaveWBA on May 10, 2018, 11:26:36 AM

It isn't wrong because you have no idea how he would approach it either. The only evidence any of us have is his mind set during the run in. His approach has been to use senior pro's, concede possession and with increasing regularity use the long ball option. Against Spurs we barely passed the ball at all.

Next season is going to need a completely different style of management and a completely different mind set that supporters will also need to buy into. The noises coming from out of the club suggest that they realise the need for progression which is the correct approach. I think supporters need to also understand that need.

He's chosen a style of play that suited the players at his disposal and the opposition we were facing. Almost every manager in the league faces up to the likes of Spurs, United and Liverpool in this way. Pardew being the exception because he's batshit mental.

The board have made statements alluding to the need to change the style of football we play. This will be a condition of the new appointment and it will be up to the new Head Coach and recruitment team to assemble a squad of players capable of playing in this manner.

To question his tactical nouse after he has just earned 1/3 of our points in five games this season is a bit disrespectful to the man.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on May 10, 2018, 11:47:13 AM
A lot of us want positive football too to be entertained. The way Darren has set up his teams hasn't shown he is capable of delivering that. it won't matter when we beat Man Utd playing that way but it will matter when we're playing the likes of Millwall and Ipswich.
I thought Pards bought us entertaining and positive football :) I mean wasn’t entertainment the highest value for a lot of fans.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Jack Thrust on May 10, 2018, 12:00:19 PM
Remains a massive no from me.

Ultimately he may be given the job and prove me wrong, and if he were given the job I would love for him to prove me wrong, I can't think of many former players who are held in the same esteem as Big Dave with our fans, perhaps only Bomber and Super Bob of those still alive so all i would want is for him to succeed.

Sadly, I just cannot look past the circumstances surrounding the upturn in form and what would be required moving forward and for me it points to bringing in someone who has the experience to deal with what is to come, not someone to learn on the job. It is a unique set of circumstances, there was no pressure on the players when he took charge, they were clearly glad to see the back of Pardew and as a man Big Dave is loved by all, who couldn't love him, and so the players were always going to put the effort in for him (questions raised as to why they weren't putting it in before despite the manager). There is no denying the achievement, but the pressure will be right back on for next season with whoever is in charge, we will be one of the favourites to win the league, rightly so, and therefore the goalposts completely change. We need someone who has experience of at least planning for an entire season, whatever the level, and the dealing with the turbulent times that a full season brings.

I can totally understand that point of view, as well as the uncertainty about how Moore would approach altering our playing style away from the current defensively focussed, nick a goal from a set piece.

I sincerely hope that Moore and the board are having detailed discussions about their plans for next season and that these plans align.

If the Board decide that they want to go with someone else and they hire an interesting prospect like Dean Smith or Potter or the like although i'll be disappointed I will be reasonably happy with that, get behind the new manager, and hope that Moore remains at the club in a coaching capacity.

If however we turn down Moore and hire an Allardyce or similar i'll burn all my Albion shirts.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on May 10, 2018, 12:35:14 PM
I'd still prefer somebody with more coaching experience and qualifications than Big Dave at this moment in time.

Judging him on us picking up a handful of results at the end of a season against teams with nothing to play for is borderline pointless.

Thats not to say we can't be successful next season with him as head coach, but i'd just rather go for someone thats perceived to be less of a gamble

There is a whole world of head coaches out there we should be exploring and scouting out.

whilst I tend to agree with your overall statement; Liverpool, Man Utd and Spurs all needed points to guarantee top 4 finishes, Swansea needed points to fight relegation, so only Newcastle could be said to have "nothing" to play for.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 10, 2018, 01:17:46 PM
Sorry but this just wrong. You have no way of proving how Moore would approach a 46 game season tactically.

Agreed totally. None of us can assume he is going to be a great success or failure, but if he wants it and gets offered it, I'd much rather the devil we knew. The last four experienced appointments have been utter dog sh1t3. Let's give it to the boy with loyalty and passion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on May 18, 2018, 04:07:32 PM
May as well move discussions to this thread now that it is official.

Seemingly confirmed on the official Twitter account.

Made my views clear last night, certainly not my choice for the job and I believe this will end in utter disaster and will ruin the image of one of my heroes when it comes to the parting of the ways during the course of this season, but I shall get fully behind him and the team and pray that in seven months Jacko is quoting this post with a ' ;D ' as he steers us to the top of the table with consummate ease.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on May 18, 2018, 04:10:34 PM
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/may/moore-appointed-head-coach/

ALBION are delighted to confirm the appointment of Darren Moore as the Club’s new Head Coach.

Darren has agreed an improved and extended contract to lead the Club in its efforts to make as swift a return as possible to the Premier League.

The 44-year-old’s stewardship over the final six games of the 2017/18 Premier League campaign saw a dramatic improvement in the team’s form and results.

Announcing the decision today, Chief Executive Mark Jenkins said the impression Darren made across all areas of the Club delivered a powerful case for his promotion to Head Coach.

“We are delighted to confirm Darren as our new Head Coach and we look forward to his continuing the excellent work we saw when he stepped into the role in an interim capacity in the first week of April,” said Mark.

“He embodies the spirit of the Club and the spirit of what we are striving to achieve in this new chapter ahead.

“We conducted a thorough process of recruitment but Darren’s powerful impact on the pitch and across all areas of the Club established him as the outstanding candidate.

“We suffered a torrid season but if there was a redeeming feature it was to see Darren at work over those final weeks, galvanising the Club and getting everyone positive again.

“We all know we have a challenging summer ahead of us but from talking at length to Darren about his plans, they are challenges he is ready to meet head on.”

'Mooro’ completes the journey from promotion-winning player to Head Coach in a 17-year link that has established him as one of the most popular figures to serve The Hawthorns in modern times.

His efforts in his most recent capacity saw him named as the Premier League’s Manager of the Month after that memorable sequence of results which brought victories over Manchester United, Newcastle and Tottenham.

He will set about assembling his backroom team as a priority before finalising plans for pre-season and working closely with Technical Consultant Giuliano Terraneo over player recruitment.

Darren said: “I am obviously extremely proud to accept this role and also extremely excited.

“We have a big summer ahead of us, a lot of hard work we need to get in now. I’m going all out to try to get those plans and personnel in place to make sure we’ve got everything ready.

“And we need to be because this is a tough league packed with great clubs. But what an opportunity for us to move the club in the right direction.”
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on May 18, 2018, 04:11:34 PM
congrats Darren, a great cheap option, fingers crossed it goes well for you.Your now under pressure. I hope you have some recruitment pulling power. please dont buy all cloggers some footballers and pace would be nice
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on May 18, 2018, 04:20:36 PM
Well done Albion fkd it up again. Jenkins' comments worth absolutely zilch. Albion urine  me off everytime we have the chance to really progress we turn it down. However it's not Big Dave's fault and I will be behind him 100%.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: miggybaggy on May 18, 2018, 04:23:42 PM
Very very good luck Darren.

Now, the board have made a brave decision....but they're also going to have to back you with some serious funding to rebuild a squad in keeping with our traditional values. I really hope it works out for you.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on May 18, 2018, 04:24:09 PM
All the best Darren you have a big job ahead of you so here's to successful seasons ahead for you & the team.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on May 18, 2018, 04:26:41 PM
We all know that a rebuild is needed and Big Daves lacks experience.

Obviously it isnt ideal however out the candidates linked - Smith, Johnson, McInnes, Appleton, Shakespeare, i dont think one of those has a promotion on their CV as it stands so any rebuilding they have done hasnt achieved what we want so they are no guarentees.

Out the others, Mick McCarthy has rebuilding and promotion experience but i think his style would be an issue to fans, Graham Potter does in Sweden but again would be a huge risk as thats nothing like the championship.

The advantage Big Dave has over these is that he knows half the squad, is liked and respected and so will make the transition easier (hopefully) for bedding new players in.

Also i know people say the cheap option, we have just spunked a load of money on Pulis and Pardew who were expensive options, we had cheaper options previous in Mowbray and RDM who worked out fine, of course we also had Roy who would of been expensive, we could of paid loads and got Big Sam (thankfully we didnt), its not about the cheapest or most expensive, its who the best option is, i think even our playing staff, by and large the more expensive ones have been the biggest let downs.

Maybe that Terraneo bloke looked at candidates and decided that the bloke currently there was infact the best option.

Big Dave may well be a disaster, i think we all have reservations, but i think we will all wish him well, but for those who have already decided he is a terrible appointment seems a bit OTT.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on May 18, 2018, 04:28:11 PM
Well done Albion fkd it up again. Jenkins' comments worth absolutely zilch. Albion urine  me off everytime we have the chance to really progress we turn it down. However it's not Big Dave's fault and I will be behind him 100%.

Sorry but while I have my reservations that is way over the top. Darren Moore made a strong case for his promotion maybe I would have preferred a different candidate but this is not the terrible decision you paint it as being. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on May 18, 2018, 04:31:13 PM
Young , hungry , ambitious , knows the Club inside out , got performances out of a toxic set of players .
We could have done a lot worse like a McCarthy or another Pardew so I'm fine with Moore having the job , just as important is the staff he is given to work with.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on May 18, 2018, 04:31:48 PM
Sorry but while I have my reservations that is way over the top. Darren Moore made a strong case for his promotion maybe I would have preferred a different candidate but this is not the terrible decision you paint it as being.
My bet is he'll be gone by Christmas and the club will be scrambling  around desperate for a manager they could and should have appointed now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 18, 2018, 04:32:40 PM
My bet is he'll be gone by Christmas and the club will be scrambling  around desperate for a manager they could and should have appointed now.


Remind me please who was your preferred option?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on May 18, 2018, 04:33:52 PM

Remind me please who was your preferred option?
Look it up
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: stever60 on May 18, 2018, 04:35:19 PM
Well done Albion fkd it up again. Jenkins' comments worth absolutely zilch. Albion urine  me off everytime we have the chance to really progress we turn it down. However it's not Big Dave's fault and I will be behind him 100%.
We haven't kicked a ball in the new season yet. Big Dave did more than the dead beats that went before him. Needs to be given every chance and support. There are no guarantees in football. Just because he isn't the big name a lot of supporters maybe hoped for (and I dont get the Smith love in) he has the club at heart so I for one wish him all the best!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on May 18, 2018, 04:35:37 PM
On a side note, just having a look and the general opinion of other fans is wishing Big Dave all the best (The Dogheads excepted of course, they believing they are something superior once again, it tends to happen every few years, look forward to normal service being resumed)

However after a few years of being labelled anti football under Pulis, its nice to see some pride restored to our club.

Think Big Dave is just one of those blokes that people warm too, there seems a lot of goodwill to him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Jack Thrust on May 18, 2018, 04:36:57 PM
I'm really pleased, absolutely deserves this chance to show what he's got. He's Albion through and through.

I can't help but wonder if he had been caretaker of Stoke for their last 6 games and got similar results whether some of the negative voices would be clamouring for us to appoint him before we miss out.

I think he will be a success, but that is only my opinion of course hence why I've stated it as such rather than as fact. Some people would do well to remember the difference.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on May 18, 2018, 04:37:57 PM
We haven't kicked a ball in the new season yet. Big Dave did more than the dead beats that went before him. Needs to be given every chance and support. There are no guarantees in football. Just because he isn't the big name a lot of supporters maybe hoped for (and I dont get the Smith love in) he has the club at heart so I for one wish him all the best!
No one was after a BIG name. Who?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on May 18, 2018, 04:40:51 PM
Very happy! Congrats big man!

All aboard the Moore Express!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on May 18, 2018, 04:42:02 PM
I've wanted the Albion to make a brave appointment for years , last one was probably Mowbray .
It may go wrong but how many years do managers last these days ?  Well done Dave , just hope the club support him with staff and players .
If he fails it certainly won't be through lack of effort unlike the last berk.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: bangkokbaggie on May 18, 2018, 04:43:08 PM
Well this should shut Sol Campbell up after his recent comments!

Have mixed feelings about this appointment and not sure how this fits in with the recent club announcement of a more attacking approach on the field.

I'm even more confused by the appointment of Giuliano Terraneo and what his actual purpose will be.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on May 18, 2018, 04:45:42 PM
He's one of us. He's a natural leader with a lot to learn but with the humility to do it. Hope he's supported with the right players / team around him.

Well done Big Dave!

COYB

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on May 18, 2018, 04:58:03 PM
Well this should shut Sol Campbell up after his recent comments!

Have mixed feelings about this appointment and not sure how this fits in with the recent club announcement of a more attacking approach on the field.

I'm even more confused by the appointment of Giuliano Terraneo and what his actual purpose will be.
Stuff Sol Campbell and Kevin Campbell the FA should be dealing with them but they don't have the bottle. To even suggest that Big Dave's colour should be influential in his getting the job is an insult and I'm absolutely certain that Darren would be appalled at any suggestion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HamsteadHarry on May 18, 2018, 05:04:22 PM
Good luck Darren.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wbastrollers on May 18, 2018, 05:07:01 PM
Actually, he gave the board no choice, he had the players and the fans behind him and as a unit they proved that there was bond. The board in fairness had to give Darren Moore the opportunity to see how far he could take this new found rejuvenation within the Club.
 It was noticeable that in all the after match interviews Darren gave, he always mentioned the team spirit within the Club, not just the players on the pitch.
We also need to remember that the players were fully behind him, because he understood the way they played  best, therfore, they were prepared to give everything for the cause until all hope was gone.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: don1thedon on May 18, 2018, 05:14:49 PM
Boing boing big fella so pleased for you.
Its clear you won't have any easy ride but you've never shirked challenges in the past so I am confident that you will give it everything. I would so love to be chanting your name as we get promotion next year (don't care how!) but you have a lot of work to do before then as have the team that you will be assembling around you as the club is rebuilt from the shambles we became recently.
110% support you Darren, your love of this club is clear, lets hope you continue to demonstrate a successful career managing West Brom - Good luck!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 18, 2018, 05:15:17 PM
I wish Darren all the best and he'll have my backing. One thing we can say for definite is that he'll get more than the usual amount of leeway from our fans. I look forward to hearing more details from him about his plans in several respects for next season. All I've seen from him in that regard so far since his appointment is "we need resilience, focus, dedication, hard work....", which sounds rather Pulis-like....

What I really want to see done away with (and I've already seen it in the new manager thread) is the "we need to do whatever it takes to achieve...." mentality regarding our style of play. You could apply this to all scenarios we could ever find ourselves in and I utterly refute the implication contained in such statements that rubbish, defensive football is necessary/acceptable to achieve things. Wolves have shown that you can get out of this division with an attacking approach and Fulham have got to the play-off final whilst playing attractive football. It's time to throw off the shackles of 3 years under Pulis folks and cast aside fear football forever!  :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Barrington on May 18, 2018, 05:15:46 PM
Really happy that they've given the job to Moore. He's proven in his short time in charge that he's a good motivator and managed to pick up a good amount of points against some good opposition.

He also has a love for the club and managed to bring the fans a bit closer to the club in his short stint in charge.

I'm really glad that someone at the club has had the balls to offer the job to someone without a long established career in management, rather than going down the route of lining the pockets of one of the old guard of merry go round folk.

He's not going to be on his own either. He'll now have the chance to pick up some back-room staff.

Wishing him all the best, and I think he'll do well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on May 18, 2018, 05:18:34 PM
It's going to be a tough job but good luck Darren.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Regis Rocket on May 18, 2018, 05:22:27 PM
Big dave deserves his chance after his good run and has club at heart. If he doesn't hack it after 10 games or so he can go back to coaching then we can bring someone in. If he does well then we all win. I know its risky but imagine if we did it the other way round and appointed say Dean Smith and it didn't work out. We'd all be saying dave should have been given a chance. We may have stumbled across the man to do the job besides there's a saying 'it it ain't broke don't fix it'. Congratulations and let's prove everyone right big dave.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: vrabbit on May 18, 2018, 05:23:47 PM
happy with this, right move at the right time, interested to learn more about his overall philsophy
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie004 on May 18, 2018, 05:39:37 PM
Very happy Baggie here!  Done all he could with a very under achieving squad.  Turned the entire place around, team, staff, fans, coaches, etc.  No one was left without a little bit of hope in the last 6 weeks of the season.  He was my first choice, although I admit i didn't think it would happen and we would end up with a continent appointment. 

He has a tough job ahead of him, but one thing I've learned from the big man is he approaches everything in his stride.  Never make a mountain out of a mole hill.  He just smiles, nods and gets on with it.  Very positive person.  Never lose that Big Dave touch, and I think we are in good hands....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on May 18, 2018, 05:50:01 PM
Any news on the length of appointment, salary, and/or who the Director of Football will be (or even if we are appointing one)?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VVVAlbion on May 18, 2018, 05:57:01 PM
Can't help but think we have missed another opportunity to show our ambition. Essentially we have appointed someone with two caps for Jamaica,  whose domestic playing achievements are relegation from Premiership on both occasions he played at that level (although with a couple of Championship promotions) and 6 matches managerial experience.  However,  he is Big Dave, he does appear to have the club at heart and no matter what reservations people have I can not see anyone giving him a hard time before a ball is even kicked unlike previous appointments .
Good luck Darren, really hope you prove us doubters wrong.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on May 18, 2018, 06:22:59 PM
Not my choice, but now he is our manager lets all get behind him and back him all the way.
Good luck Big Dave.
COYB.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: garry on May 18, 2018, 06:25:18 PM
Congratulations, Big Dave
You love the club and we love you
Now do us proud
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 18, 2018, 06:26:21 PM
Not my choice, but now he is our manager lets all get behind him and back him all the way.
Good luck Big Dave.
COYB.

That's fair enough divine, although I have been dead keen all along I totally get why there are reservations.

He's one of us. He LOVES the club and not just the glory. It's up to the club now to get the squad right. Fasten yourselves in chaps! We Are Albion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionBest on May 18, 2018, 06:28:12 PM
Was in two minds but really chuffed now the decision has been made - how different to the appointments of the last two clowns!

Let's all get behind and hope that the club provide him with the resources and support he's going to need to get us off to a good start.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on May 18, 2018, 06:29:57 PM
The first appointment is as long as I can remember that has pretty much everyone’s backing ( few people probably wanted someone else but will still back big Dave).

Just hope he can mould team together capable of taking it to teams and playing some decent football.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionBest on May 18, 2018, 06:32:11 PM
The players talked Darren up so it's time for them to stand up and support him in their actions to get us back up now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Bigrob80 on May 18, 2018, 06:41:19 PM
I’m happy to have Darren as our manager/head coach I think he had to be given the job after the end of season results from a team that was totally demoralised.
It’s going to be a hard old slog but I hope it all comes together for us and him.
COYB
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: sconesy on May 18, 2018, 06:50:13 PM
Massive congrats to Darren, really feel that we have a manager who cares and has the FULL backing of ALL at the club. I met him only a few months ago in Brum and he was an absolute gent and a pleasure to talk with. He has my full support and I’m sure everyone involved in the day-to-day running of the club.
We must be patient and allow him to make his mark and impose his ethics - we’ve certainly chosen the right character....now ‘Big Dave’, over to you!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albertbaggie on May 18, 2018, 07:13:56 PM
Can't help but think we have missed another opportunity to show our ambition. Essentially we have appointed someone with two caps for Jamaica,  whose domestic playing achievements are relegation from Premiership on both occasions he played at that level (although with a couple of Championship promotions) and 6 matches managerial experience.  However,  he is Big Dave, he does appear to have the club at heart and no matter what reservations people have I can not see anyone giving him a hard time before a ball is even kicked unlike previous appointments .
Good luck Darren, really hope you prove us doubters wrong.
Since when has that mattered? Don't remember Mourinho, Alex Ferguson having great playing careers
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on May 18, 2018, 07:31:14 PM
Congratulations Darren. Nice to have a very humble, polite guy in charge. Just the issue of ripping this squad apart and rebuilding. Get rid of anyone that doesn't want to play for him, and lets get this wagon rolling. I'm actually very excited at this new beginning. Yes it could go horribly wrong, but for once I feel positive about the club. Glad Foster and Brunt have pledged their allegiance to us, we will need some wise old heads among the younger players. Roll on August I say
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on May 18, 2018, 07:34:42 PM
Since when has that mattered? Don't remember Mourinho, Alex Ferguson having great playing careers

And Bryan Robson made a great manager ???
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on May 18, 2018, 07:58:05 PM
I want him to succeed, I really do. He's a great bloke, and a hero of mine. But...

I have been racking my brains, and I can't remember a caretaker who went in as a firefighter, like Moore did, who was then a success when they got the job on a full time basis.

I also think this is unlikely to shake any of the players out of the comfort zone they seem to inhabit. I can see new contracts on the horizon for Yacob, Myhill, even Morrison, and a continuation of the malaise we seem to find ourselves in.

I hope I'm wrong. I really hope I am. But I can see this going badly wrong, it lasting until about November / December, and then us having to go out and hire the manager we should be getting now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LongBridge Baggie1 on May 18, 2018, 08:03:56 PM
May as well move discussions to this thread now that it is official.

Seemingly confirmed on the official Twitter account.

Made my views clear last night, certainly not my choice for the job and I believe this will end in utter disaster and will ruin the image of one of my heroes when it comes to the parting of the ways during the course of this season, but I shall get fully behind him and the team and pray that in seven months Jacko is quoting this post with a ' ;D ' as he steers us to the top of the table with consummate ease.

Great PR stunt but only experience from April I'd have brought another head coach in and let him work with DM but sadly I can see this ending in tears. As you say he's a hero its just too early for him As you said I hope he proves me wrong. but even RDM had a season under his belt
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VVVAlbion on May 18, 2018, 08:14:47 PM
Since when has that mattered? Don't remember Mourinho, Alex Ferguson having great playing careers
If Darren Moore turns out to be the next Mourinho or Alex Ferguson then we will truly have struck gold and we will have to question why the muppets ever employed Pulis or Pardew ahead of Big Dave in the first place. (If you are seriously anticipating this I think you may be disappointed)

I belive you are missing my point. If Darren was Joe Bloggs with no connection to the Albion and that record I imagine the burning torches and pitch forks would be on their way to the Hawthorns now and the threats of non purchasing of season tickets filling these pages.

I personally do not think it is an ambitious appointment but he will have the benefit of bringing the support together behind him and plenty of good will.

As an aside, it took Mourinho 13 years to go from his non existent playing career to first managerial position with 7 years (?) as a number two. Fergie was managing for a good number of years before he got success with Aberdeen in the early eighties. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on May 18, 2018, 08:27:35 PM
Delighted for the big man now owners need to back him, good luck Darren let's take Championship league by storm  ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on May 18, 2018, 08:33:28 PM
Not my first choice but 100% behind him now he needs backing in the transfer market. We need some fire power 2 strikers in (before any leave) we need an attacking mid to replace chadli and we need two cbs.

If we can get some of the shopping done before the World Cup then we will really hit the ground running
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on May 18, 2018, 08:44:21 PM
Re-reading the statement put put by the club it reads as if his influence has gone beyond the playing side of things and has reinvigorated the club by putting pride and heart back in where the last few seasons it has been missing. There is no denying the guy is charismatic and like many leaders that's a great quality to have.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albertbaggie on May 18, 2018, 09:11:56 PM
And Bryan Robson made a great manager ???
Well yeah, reiterates the point I was making
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggieboy74 on May 18, 2018, 09:12:23 PM
He's been promoted as a player......whilst having a leaders roll in those teams. I think he can do it.
Arsenal are about to appoint Arteta......that's equally a gamble.
The Pardew saga has made us look within and I really hope it works.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on May 18, 2018, 09:14:13 PM
Fingers crossed this works out. Will be fascinating to see what goes on with player sales and recruitment, what happens to the DOF and how decent the football is at the start of the season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albertbaggie on May 18, 2018, 09:19:57 PM

If Darren Moore turns out to be the next Mourinho or Alex Ferguson then we will truly have struck gold and we will have to question why the muppets ever employed Pulis or Pardew ahead of Big Dave in the first place. (If you are seriously anticipating this I think you may be disappointed)


I belive you are missing my point. If Darren was Joe Bloggs with no connection to the Albion and that record I imagine the burning torches and pitch forks would be on their way to the Hawthorns now and the threats of non purchasing of season tickets filling these pages.

I personally do not think it is an ambitious appointment but he will have the benefit of bringing the support together behind him and plenty of good will.

As an aside, it took Mourinho 13 years to go from his non existent playing career to first managerial position with 7 years (?) as a number two. Fergie was managing for a good number of years before he got success with Aberdeen in the early eighties.
Not anticipating that at all. Merely pointing out you don't have to be a great player to be a  good manager. People clambouring for Dean Smith ..was he as good a player as Big Dave?

Incidentally, people seem to be just assuming Big Dave has got the job based on six games.
Have you thought, he might have impressing before that?
He's been promoted through the varying coaching set-ups for a while now, so it's natural progression.
In terms of playing style, give the guy a chance.
You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear and for me that's what he was dealing with ...it was a dismal squad for all people keep saying it wasn't.
If the club get the recruitment right, let's judge the playing style then.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on May 18, 2018, 09:39:46 PM
I want him to succeed, I really do. He's a great bloke, and a hero of mine. But...

I have been racking my brains, and I can't remember a caretaker who went in as a firefighter, like Moore did, who was then a success when they got the job on a full time basis.

I also think this is unlikely to shake any of the players out of the comfort zone they seem to inhabit. I can see new contracts on the horizon for Yacob, Myhill, even Morrison, and a continuation of the malaise we seem to find ourselves in.

I hope I'm wrong. I really hope I am. But I can see this going badly wrong, it lasting until about November / December, and then us having to go out and hire the manager we should be getting now.

Agreed but would say that I don’t anticiipate them removing big dave , the bloke would have to quit so we could save a few quid which is the name of the game..
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on May 18, 2018, 10:07:20 PM
Makes you wonder if any players may now stay because of big Dave
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on May 18, 2018, 10:19:33 PM
Can't help but think we have missed another opportunity to show our ambition. Essentially we have appointed someone with two caps for Jamaica,  whose domestic playing achievements are relegation from Premiership on both occasions he played at that level (although with a couple of Championship promotions) and 6 matches managerial experience.  However,  he is Big Dave, he does appear to have the club at heart and no matter what reservations people have I can not see anyone giving him a hard time before a ball is even kicked unlike previous appointments .
Good luck Darren, really hope you prove us doubters wrong.
One of my pub hobbyhorses, how the best managers are usually not the most naturally gifted players, they are the ones who had to work out what to do with limited God given ability.  If you had to think about playing to your strengths as a player, you're already half way to being a coach.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on May 18, 2018, 10:46:26 PM
One of my pub hobbyhorses, how the best managers are usually not the most naturally gifted players, they are the ones who had to work out what to do with limited God given ability.  If you had to think about playing to your strengths as a player, you're already half way to being a coach.
Good point. If a person is naturally gifted, they’ve not had to learn. It then may become a problem to teach. I’d never thought of it that way. And while I’m here, I’m pleased with Darren’s appointment. It feels like we’ve been given our club back. One step at a time, eh?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on May 18, 2018, 11:20:47 PM
None of the top managers were stand out players, Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho, Hodgson. Did Roy ever play professionally?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on May 18, 2018, 11:27:37 PM
I belive you are missing my point. If Darren was Joe Bloggs with no connection to the Albion and that record I imagine the burning torches and pitch forks would be on their way to the Hawthorns now and the threats of non purchasing of season tickets filling these pages.

This is a point I was thinking of yesterday. But ultimately he has connections to the club and has done a great job at every opportunity the club has afforded him and he deserves credit for that.

However I do believe in Big Dave and just hope that the club works with him and aids his development because lets be honest he's as much as a work in progress as we are going to be this summer.

On the point of caretakers not making great long term managers... Eddie Howe began his role as just that and so did Garry Monk at Swansea. Naturally Monk didn't last but his dismissal was against the fans wishes who felt he deserved longer. Michael Flynn has done a spectacular job at Newport County after initially taking the reigns as caretaker.


Congratulations Big Dave and good luck. I hope he gets the support from every level of the club he deserves.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on May 18, 2018, 11:32:50 PM
Roy was on Palace's books as a teenager but mainly played semi pro and his background is strikingly similar to Wenger's.  Generally the best coaches have modest playing careers often cut short by injury which pushes them into coaching relatively early in life. A great player who also makes it as a great coach is a fairly rare bird, which is why calls for high profile ex pro's to be fast tracked through coaching qualifications is a complete nonsense.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on May 18, 2018, 11:48:14 PM
Makes you wonder if any players may now stay because of big Dave

I have a feeling a few who maybe we’re considering leaving will give us a season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hardtobeat on May 18, 2018, 11:52:22 PM
None of the top managers were stand out players, Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho, Hodgson. Did Roy ever play professionally?
Guardiola, Zidane, Conte and Ancelloti weren't too shabby
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on May 18, 2018, 11:59:35 PM
Pep Guardiola -
Antonio Conte -
Diego Simeone -
Gheorgi Hagi -
Massimo Carerra -
Phillip Cocu -
Diego Alonso -
Giovanni Van Bronkhorst -
Luis Enrique -
Marcelo Gallardo -
Mauricio Pochettino -
Zidane -
Patrick Vieira -

Great players don't make great coaches but that's not a bad list representing some of the best managers about in world football.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on May 19, 2018, 12:24:27 AM
Pep Guardiola -
Antonio Conte -
Diego Simeone -
Gheorgi Hagi -
Massimo Carerra -
Phillip Cocu -
Diego Alonso -
Giovanni Van Bronkhorst -
Luis Enrique -
Marcelo Gallardo -
Mauricio Pochettino -
Zidane -
Patrick Vieira -

Great players don't make great coaches but that's not a bad list representing some of the best managers about in world football.
OK! How’s this for a challenge. Let’s name the household names that failed. Here’s my starter for one point. Bobby Charlton. ☺️
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on May 19, 2018, 01:19:14 AM
Paul Gascoigne
Maradona
Bobby Charlton
Gary Neville
Alan Shearer
John Barnes
Stoichkov
Tony Adams
Van Basten
Roy Keane 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on May 19, 2018, 02:45:39 AM
As I said earlier I have serious reservations about this appointment. I think everyone is entitled to joy or disappointment when a new head coach is put in place, we're all human, we all have our own thoughts and emotions.

However, the club have made their decision so now no more moaning it's time to get right behind Darren Moore. If it all goes wrong I won't be giving it the I told you so's. There's no purpose to that and I'm not into gaining cheap points. Hopefully Darren's time in charge will be a resounding success.

Good luck Big Dave.

Come on you Baggies!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: telford baggie on May 19, 2018, 05:38:12 AM
time to enjoy pulis football again and sounds like as long as you work hard that is good enough, gone by xmas out the division by may, dean saunders mark 2
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie steve on May 19, 2018, 06:26:21 AM
Makes you wonder if any players may now stay because of big Dave


Do we want them to stay ? There are a few who were that bad last year we don't want them to stay around ,  new broom was promised by Jenkins , we want some young hungry talented players and play a more pleasing on the eye style.
Big Dave has said this squad can only play one way ? A change in personnel is needed
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Chipperfan on May 19, 2018, 06:29:35 AM
time to enjoy pulis football again and sounds like as long as you work hard that is good enough, gone by xmas out the division by may, dean saunders mark 2

Not sure how it “sounds like” anything. All DM has said so far are the usual platitudes about being excited to get the job etc.

Seems the club couldn’t do anything apart from appoint Moore, the upturn in form had made the decision for them, there was really no other choice.

After watching Albion since 1966, I must say I recognise that I know nothing really of how football works. I couldn’t say who is going to be a good/great player and I certainly am not qualified to recognise a good/great coach. Like most fans and supporters, I’m just along for the ride.

I withdrew my support while Pulis was there. Much as I struggled not to because he was at Albion, I detested the man’s brand football. I detested it while he was at Stoke and continued to when he was at the Hawthorns. Then I really hoped Pardew would turn it round, but no, we all know the outcome.

So, here I stand, with over fifty years of following the club, fifty years of (largely) false dawns, looking at DM’s appointment thinking “yes, this is it, this is the beginning of a new era, something great”. Part of me knows it’s foolish, as statistically and financially we can’t compete with the top end of the Prem, but hey, who cares, this is football not a logic seminar. Big Dave is an Albion man, he won games when all looked lost. He galvanised everything around Albion, he feels about the club like I do, and he seems like a genuine bloke.

He’s our top boy now, I’m with him 100% and I’ll be back up there next season come what may.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on May 19, 2018, 06:36:42 AM
Big Dave could turn out to be his own worst enemy.
With the results he managed in the last 6 games he made it very difficult for the board not to appoint him.
Not sticking up for the board but they were on a hiding to nothing, dammed if they did and dammed if they didn't
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on May 19, 2018, 07:30:41 AM
time to enjoy pulis football again and sounds like as long as you work hard that is good enough, gone by xmas out the division by may, dean saunders mark 2

Jesus, I'm disappointed by the appointment but it sounds like you need to give Samaritans a ring.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on May 19, 2018, 08:26:23 AM
Paul Gascoigne
Maradona
Bobby Charlton
Gary Neville
Alan Shearer
John Barnes
Stoichkov
Tony Adams
Van Basten
Roy Keane

Fair enough but all these are in the past. There is a definite shift in the modern game and for whatever reason, perhaps the current crop are better prepared. But when we're talking of top players making it as managers it really has no bearing on the Darren Moore debate in fairness.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 19, 2018, 09:11:58 AM
Paul Gascoigne
Maradona
Bobby Charlton
Gary Neville
Alan Shearer
John Barnes
Stoichkov
Tony Adams
Van Basten
Roy Keane

Bobby Moore
Brian Kidd
Bryan Robson
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on May 19, 2018, 09:25:18 AM
Billy Wright.

The new DoF who ever that may be will do the recruiting / selling etc. Big Dave will hopefully be the motivator, the feel good factor, the one who pulls everyone together.
We have to get the DoF appointment spot on.
Really hope this works, for Darrens sake as much as our own.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: koren on May 19, 2018, 09:33:02 AM
Did a great job for the last six games but there are much more difficult tasks ahead of Big Dave.

Promotion would be the top priority. Nowadays the teams in championship are also very competitive. We need to have a good start at the beginning of the season in order to boost the promotion chance. Therefore Big Dave has to prepare well in the pre-season, in terms of tactics and game plan. There is no room for testing or experiment after the season starts.

Overhaul for the squad is another important task. It should be happened last summer but we missed it.
Big Dave is inexperienced for player recruitment. Giuliano Terraneo has to work closely with him and bring new players to improve the aging squad.

Also, I'm sure many fans were tired of Pulis' style football in last few years, it is hoped that Big Dave can develop a team with more attacking intent and play better football.

Good luck Big Dave!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 19, 2018, 09:35:04 AM
Did a great job for the last six games but there are much more difficult tasks ahead of Big Dave.

Promotion would be the top priority. Nowadays the teams in championship are also very competitive. We need to have a good start at the beginning of the season in order to boost the promotion chance. Therefore Big Dave has to prepare well in the pre-season, in terms of tactics and game plan. There is no room for testing or experiment after the season starts.

Overhaul for the squad is another important task. It should be happened last summer but we missed it.
Big Dave is inexperienced for player recruitment. Giuliano Terraneo has to work closely with him and bring new players to improve the aging squad.

Also, I'm sure many fans were tired of Pulis' style football in last few years, it is hoped that Big Dave can develop a team with more attacking intent and play better football.

Good luck Big Dave!


To be fair that's probably the one thing you don't need in the Championship. You need to finish strongly.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on May 19, 2018, 09:58:44 AM

To be fair that's probably the one thing you don't need in the Championship. You need to finish strongly.

This season

Cardiff took 17/24 points at the start of the season. Fulham took 10/24.

Cardiff took 11/24 points at the end of the season. Fulham took 19.

Season before

Brighton took 14/24 points at the start of the season, Reading the same.

Brighton took 16/24 points at the end of the season. Reading took 18/24 points

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 19, 2018, 10:09:09 AM
Off the top of my head, Sunderland 06/07. You can be in the bottom half at Christmas and still get automatic promotion, it's that type of league.


That said, ideally you would get a lead and then give yourself breathing space so a slump doesn't derail the season. My issue was with the idea that a good start was vital, suggesting Moore has no time to settle, which just isn't the case, coupled with the fact he'll have far more goodwill from the fans (which will afford him more time) than any manager in recent history. A solid start is all that is required from the club in August and September.


edit. Interestingly in that season Sunderland won the title they had 17 players come in and 15 leave. It can be done.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: MarkW on May 19, 2018, 10:26:51 AM
I've kept relatively quiet about a new manager, and about Darren Moore's appointment, as I have been very much on the fence.

He wasn't my first choice. I'm not sure who was but it wasn't Darren. I want to club to build a footballing identity and from the little I've seen, DM either doesn't have one, or his is similar to Pulis in that we concede possession and use set pieces to nick goals. This has worked well against the big teams he has come up against, but failed vs those around us. That again is a very Pulis-like trait.  Next season we will have to play with initiative, and take the game to teams that look to set up shop. We'll be a big scalp, and there are plenty of teams who will form two banks of four, and ask if we can break them down.

DM has yet to show an ability or desire to set us up in that way, but maybe a summer of new arrivals and a bit of a clear out will allow him to play with more freedom.

This may come across as writing DM off, and it is definitely not intended that way. I will back DM totally, and look forward to him building a culture of togetherness at the club, which I think has been missing. I have my reservations, but he gets my support, as any manager would when they arrive. It is up to him to maintain that good faith.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Cullompton baggie on May 19, 2018, 11:37:04 AM
He will need at least 2 types of system to counter act teams coming to the Hawthorns, teams are going to come to us and shut shop, trying to get away with a point! we will need to have a system that will allow us to break down this type of team. something we did not have under Pulis or Pardew. and a 2nd system for the likes of Stoke, who bombard you with long balls all the time!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 19, 2018, 11:54:31 AM
He wasn't my first choice. I'm not sure who was but it wasn't Darren. I want to club to build a footballing identity and from the little I've seen, DM either doesn't have one, or his is similar to Pulis in that we concede possession and use set pieces to nick goals. This has worked well against the big teams he has come up against, but failed vs those around us. That again is a very Pulis-like trait.  Next season we will have to play with initiative, and take the game to teams that look to set up shop. We'll be a big scalp, and there are plenty of teams who will form two banks of four, and ask if we can break them down.

DM has yet to show an ability or desire to set us up in that way, but maybe a summer of new arrivals and a bit of a clear out will allow him to play with more freedom.

This may come across as writing DM off, and it is definitely not intended that way. I will back DM totally, and look forward to him building a culture of togetherness at the club, which I think has been missing. I have my reservations, but he gets my support, as any manager would when they arrive. It is up to him to maintain that good faith.
That's a great post,  which I entirely agree with. We need to bring in more attack-minded players than we have at present - players who are adept at breaking down massed defences. By and large, the clubs who've got automatic promotion have been capable of that; consider Wolves, Wigan and Blackburn (I can't bring myself to write about Cardiff, given who's in charge there)! To my mind, those are the 3 clubs we should look to be emulating in their style of play and bringing players in who are capable of delivering it.

All Darren's talked about so far is being organised and working hard, but it's going to need more than that to stand out from the crowd and push for automatic promotion, so I look forward to hearing his more considered thoughts on what's going to be our general approach for next season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on May 19, 2018, 12:31:29 PM
He will need at least 2 types of system to counter act teams coming to the Hawthorns, teams are going to come to us and shut shop, trying to get away with a point! we will need to have a system that will allow us to break down this type of team. something we did not have under Pulis or Pardew. and a 2nd system for the likes of Stoke, who bombard you with long balls all the time!

I wouldn’t be so sure. A lot of them might fancy their chances at turning us over and our current team doesn’t seem to know anything other than shutting up shop themselves.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on May 19, 2018, 01:17:44 PM
He's set up teams and taken points off sides who are elite European clubs. He was never in a position to try and instil a style of play during those 6 games. Instead he had to act like Ronsil and simply get the job done.

What he needs to be judged on is how he sets up a side that he has had the opportunity to mould into his own. You cannot stamp a style and identity on a football club in the last 6 games of a season where circumstances dictate otherwise.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on May 19, 2018, 03:23:18 PM
It will take a good few transfer windows to clear out the dead wood and build the team he wants. You can’t really judge his full style until he’s built the team. However we will see signs straight away.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on May 19, 2018, 03:42:07 PM
Be interesting to see how many players will stop after their comments saying many would stay if he was appointed.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on May 19, 2018, 04:19:33 PM
He's set up teams and taken points off sides who are elite European clubs. He was never in a position to try and instil a style of play during those 6 games. Instead he had to act like Ronsil and simply get the job done.

What he needs to be judged on is how he sets up a side that he has had the opportunity to mould into his own. You cannot stamp a style and identity on a football club in the last 6 games of a season where circumstances dictate otherwise.

Very good post mate!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: letmereadposts on May 19, 2018, 05:33:37 PM
We have a responsibility to give Big Dave the benefit.

We need to remember how far we've come. Whilst I'm just as disappointed as the next person at the lack of achievement during our time in the top tier, we have the opportunity of a second chance if we make an immediate return to the premier league.

If the recruitment of Darren Moore means the majority of the squad stay for one season - a personal expectation of mine, considering this is essentially the players own appointment - then this gives us every chance to continue our good form, and achieve an immediate promotion which avoids the need for a complete rebuild with limited resources in a second rate league.

We have a responsibility next season as fans to push this team up the league. That's why I'm spending my limited funds to increase my own attendance at the Hawthorns next season.

Good luck Big Dave, I'm confident you'll have a strong (and maintained) backing from our fanbase.

46 games, its going to be a long season...COYB!

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 19, 2018, 06:09:07 PM
time to enjoy pulis football again and sounds like as long as you work hard that is good enough, gone by xmas out the division by may, dean saunders mark 2

That's it, keep it positive.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on May 19, 2018, 07:40:41 PM
 Its really hard to believe that some posters on here are actually baggies fans,isn't it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on May 19, 2018, 07:51:47 PM
Its really hard to believe that some posters on here are actually baggies fans,isn't it.

99% are Baggies fans its just that people have different views and opinions, thats what makes a forum. Be a bit pointless having one if everyone agreed on everything wouldn't it ??
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on May 19, 2018, 07:54:50 PM
99% are Baggies fans its just that people have different views and opinions, thats what makes a forum. Be a bit pointless having one if everyone agreed on everything wouldn't it ??

Would be the logical answer. Sadly not all on here are so logical and adopt the ‘if you don’t just smile and clap regardless you’re clearly not an Albion fan’. Quite pathetic really
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: letmereadposts on May 19, 2018, 08:05:16 PM
99% are Baggies fans its just that people have different views and opinions, thats what makes a forum. Be a bit pointless having one if everyone agreed on everything wouldn't it ??

Clearly not the point the chap was making in my opinion. Although I appreciate the point of a forum.

The negativity we're seeing on this appointment reflects a culture not normally reflective of our fanbase.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 19, 2018, 08:06:54 PM
Would be the logical answer. Sadly not all on here are so logical and adopt the ‘if you don’t just smile and clap regardless you’re clearly not an Albion fan’. Quite pathetic really


Think your measured if underwhelmed response is a bit different to TBs post.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: letmereadposts on May 19, 2018, 08:10:55 PM
Would be the logical answer. Sadly not all on here are so logical and adopt the ‘if you don’t just smile and clap regardless you’re clearly not an Albion fan’. Quite pathetic really

So if the argument is positive, then it must be ignorant?! The tiresome criticism of a 'Happy Clapper' is jading.

In the context of this topic, many are asking we give the benefit and full support for someone who clearly has the best intentions for the club (and community) we care for.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on May 19, 2018, 08:15:29 PM
So if the argument is positive, then it must be ignorant?! The tiresome criticism of a 'Happy Clapper' is jading.

In the context of this topic, many are asking we give the benefit and full support for someone who clearly has the best intentions for the club (and community) we care for.

Not in the slightest. It’s an opinion, in the same manner in which a negative post is an opinion. Both are equal, neither are necessarily ignorant (though of course this is a subjective test), and the criticism of anyone being negative could be considered just as tiresome of anyone criticising those being positive
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: letmereadposts on May 19, 2018, 08:20:33 PM
Not in the slightest. It’s an opinion, in the same manner in which a negative post is an opinion. Both are equal, neither are necessarily ignorant (though of course this is a subjective test), and the criticism of anyone being negative could be considered just as tiresome of anyone criticising those being positive

 â€˜If you don’t just smile and clap regardless you’re clearly not an Albion fan’.  - This was not the point the chap was making.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on May 19, 2018, 08:26:13 PM
Glad you understood it letmeread.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: P Anderson on May 19, 2018, 10:50:09 PM
I am happy that we have appointed a manager who has a strong connection with the club. DM will get my full support, the only concern is the players have pushed for this.
These are the same model pro’s that let us down so badly throughout the whole of last season. I would like to see all of the old boys club broken up and DM start his reign with a young team and a real plan in place throughout the club, from top to bottom. Sadly I think the same pro’s will become a spanner in the works with lack lustre performances and billy big boots attitudes.
Already average players like mclean,  think they are too big to be here.
I feel the key to this season is going to be in the recruitment of players and coaching staff but fear we will have problems getting rid of some of the overrated and overpaid, who will remain under the guise of supporting DM.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on May 20, 2018, 08:42:35 AM
Has anybody read how long a contract he's signed?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BB74 on May 20, 2018, 08:50:04 AM
I’m suddenly having cold feet about the appointment. Not sure why. I want nothing more than Darren to succeed.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mini gaardsoe on May 20, 2018, 09:14:19 AM
Apologies if this has already been mentioned but what do we think the make up of the backroom staff should be? An experienced no.2 at championship level a must?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on May 20, 2018, 09:18:45 AM
I am happy that we have appointed a manager who has a strong connection with the club. DM will get my full support, the only concern is the players have pushed for this.
These are the same model pro’s that let us down so badly throughout the whole of last season. I would like to see all of the old boys club broken up and DM start his reign with a young team and a real plan in place throughout the club, from top to bottom. Sadly I think the same pro’s will become a spanner in the works with lack lustre performances and billy big boots attitudes.
Already average players like mclean,  think they are too big to be here.
I feel the key to this season is going to be in the recruitment of players and coaching staff but fear we will have problems getting rid of some of the overrated and overpaid, who will remain under the guise of supporting DM.

This is where Darren needs to stamp his authority early. A ruthless approach to players who haven’t been commited enough and also players that aren’t good enough should be told they are no longer part of the plans. Nyom, McLean, Robson Kanu, Morrison, Barry etc.

Hopefully we can get a few out the door early in the window for a change.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 20, 2018, 09:34:26 AM
I’m suddenly having cold feet about the appointment. Not sure why. I want nothing more than Darren to succeed.

I reckon it's just the anxiety of wanting us to do well this season. Regardless of how any of us feel about Big Dave, we are together in our ambition.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on May 20, 2018, 09:37:31 AM
I’m suddenly having cold feet about the appointment. Not sure why. I want nothing more than Darren to succeed.

I think it’s because there’s that element it might all go tits up for one of our modern day legends. No one wants this to end badly or destroy the fans feelings towards big Dave.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on May 20, 2018, 09:56:24 AM
This is where Darren needs to stamp his authority early. A ruthless approach to players who haven’t been commited enough and also players that aren’t good enough should be told they are no longer part of the plans. Nyom, McLean, Robson Kanu, Morrison, Barry etc.

Hopefully we can get a few out the door early in the window for a change.

I would have myhill and his comfy slippers out so fast his feet wouldn’t touch the floor.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on May 20, 2018, 09:58:59 AM
I think it’s because there’s that element it might all go tits up for one of our modern day legends. No one wants this to end badly or destroy the fans feelings towards big Dave.

This is it, we all want manager to succeed with us even if we previously couldn't stand them (Pulis, Pardew) but this one is huge - most of us LOVE Darren Moore. Scored THAT goal at the Smethwick, was there on the great escape and has worked his way up in the club. For him to fail would be heartbreaking on more levels than Pulis/Pardew failing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on May 20, 2018, 10:13:43 AM
Apologies if this has already been mentioned but what do we think the make up of the backroom staff should be? An experienced no.2 at championship level a must?

Nothing mentioned as yet. There are two vacancies and I suspect Jimmy Shan would be in line for a promotion which leaves a gap. Not sure that Championship experience is a prerequisite it isn't some alien form of football that is beyond understanding unless you've worked in it for a decade. Whoever it is does need to be a long term assistant a good coach but someone who isn't going to have aspirations to be a Head Coach not sure who I would suggest.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on May 20, 2018, 11:40:08 AM
Why change a winning formula. James Shan as number 2 seems the logical appointment. Big Dave has earned his shot, now it's up to him to keep on delivering. One thing is for sure, he has proven already that he has what it takes to manage at the highest level. Experience can be very overrrated in the football world. Sometimes a new approach or a fresh face can bring fantastic results. Just look at Eddie Howe at Bournemouth.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on May 20, 2018, 12:03:08 PM
Why change a winning formula. James Shan as number 2 seems the logical appointment. Big Dave has earned his shot, now it's up to him to keep on delivering. One thing is for sure, he has proven already that he has what it takes to manage at the highest level. Experience can be very overrrated in the football world. Sometimes a new approach or a fresh face can bring fantastic results. Just look at Eddie Howe at Bournemouth.

I think Jimmy Shan has as much earned a promotion to the 1st team as Darren. However there is no denying the fact that they are a very inexperienced coaching team there will be another appointment and I would expect it to be an experienced assistant however it is more important that whoever it is compliments what Jimmy and Darren bring to their roles and fits with the coaching culture we are trying to develop.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on May 20, 2018, 12:10:20 PM
Do we have a pre-season tour sorted out yet?
Do we have a fitness coach?
What is left of the scouting department?
What’s going on with the DOF?
Does Darren Moore have any idea who he wants in & out?
Who runs the academy now Moore & staff are dealing with first team?

Watching his interview on the club site dispiriting for him to be referring to the wonderful and big clubs in the championship! Enough of that Pulis mentality of talking up the opposition, this is division 2 of English football. Lots of references to unity and hard work, no mention of the word quality or ability and no discussion upon transfers.

We’re turning into an episode of dream team and Harchester F.C.

Exceptionally rare for a manager job to go to someone at our level with zero experience of the basics. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on May 20, 2018, 12:16:12 PM
Do we have a pre-season tour sorted out yet?
Do we have a fitness coach?
What is left of the scouting department?
What’s going on with the DOF?
Does Darren Moore have any idea who he wants in & out?
Who runs the academy now Moore & staff are dealing with first team?

Watching his interview on the club site dispiriting for him to be referring to the wonderful and big clubs in the championship! Enough of that Pulis mentality of talking up the opposition, this is division 2 of English football. Lots of references to unity and hard work, no mention of the word quality or ability and no discussion upon transfers.

We’re turning into an episode of dream team and Harchester F.C.

Exceptionally rare for a manager job to go to someone at our level with zero experience of the basics. Fingers crossed.

That's an awful lot of questions for someone to answer who's only confirmed in a job less than 40hours ago
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Uncle Peter on May 20, 2018, 12:40:52 PM
Quote
That's an awful lot of questions for someone to answer who's only confirmed in a job less than 40hours ago

True, but they're questions that desperately need answering.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on May 20, 2018, 12:49:45 PM
Never been cold to the appointment of Moore but I did favour Smith. Over the last few days I’ve really warmed to the idea of Big Dave and I am desperate for him to be successful with us.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on May 20, 2018, 01:04:51 PM
I think somewhere in the initial interview that seems to have triggered Baggies 38 panic attack Darren said "It is going to be a busy summer" Might be busy over the next few weeks tackling some of the issues raised.

However just filling in a few of the gaps for him.

The people running the academy are still running the academy Darren was with the 1st team squad anyway and James Shan was running the U23's and might yet return to that role but he is only one person from an Academy staff of over a dozen.

Fitness coach Matt Bickley worked his way through from the academy appointed October last year.

Scouting department is still largely intact Ford and Thorn have gone but there is at least 3 full time Recruitment personnel in post. In any event what exactly are scouts scouting right now? Any scouting work has either been done or it hasn't been and there is nothing much to scout until August. Scandinavia excepted.

Darren might have a fairly good idea of players he might like to keep or indeed move on yet he is hardly going to announce that in his first club interview. We might think that West Ham emailing James Collins after 11 years with the club is a bit naff but Darren saying "Sorry Mozza your time is up" during his welcome interview is a whole different level of naffness.

Transfers are going to be a matter for him and Terraneo which I think Darren might have mentioned in the interview.

Director of Football will be appointed between now and September in the meantime Terraneo is helping the club with it's recruitment etc...

Pre season. I honestly think we will gather the lads together the week before the season starts for a few five a sides and away we go.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on May 20, 2018, 02:38:25 PM
Really want Big Dave to do well Shows The Board Beleive in him Maybe now he can employ his own Tactics
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Nice1Cyrille on May 20, 2018, 04:55:51 PM
Im excited to see who Darren brings in. There are some players that I would like to see coming in but its not up to me is it.
Also like to see if he can keep Rondon and Dawson.
Im sure we won t have to wait long for some ins/outs either way.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on May 20, 2018, 06:44:30 PM
This is where Darren needs to stamp his authority early. A ruthless approach to players who haven’t been commited enough and also players that aren’t good enough should be told they are no longer part of the plans. Nyom, McLean, Robson Kanu, Morrison, Barry etc.

Hopefully we can get a few out the door early in the window for a change.
I agree generally, but I think McClean and Nyom can do a good job in the championship.  Nobody has ever run through Nyom, even if the top prem players went round him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BAGGIE5 on May 20, 2018, 10:25:53 PM
Press conference at 10am. Guess we will get more answers then.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 20, 2018, 10:29:59 PM
I'd guess it'll just confirm Shan and Cutler as permanent. Possibly the release list will be announced with Darren thanking those leaving. Would be a very classy way to do it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 65baggie on May 20, 2018, 11:30:28 PM
Maybe Alan Irvine as his assistant
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on May 21, 2018, 11:45:04 AM
James shan and Neil cutler staying.

A new assistant head coach coming in.

No player to be bought in without moore agreeing.

We have a "strong budget"

We don't have to sell to balance the books

--

On the style of play..
The league has many different hurdles, they'll see a team that will play football when it's needed, but also a team that's willing to fight and scrap for every ball. We've got to create a team that when those challenges come, we're well prepared."


Very positive statements today imo
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Pie on May 21, 2018, 11:57:14 AM
James shan and Neil cutler staying.

A new assistant head coach coming in.

No player to be bought in without moore agreeing.

We have a "strong budget"

We don't have to sell to balance the books

--

On the style of play..
The league has many different hurdles, they'll see a team that will play football when it's needed, but also a team that's willing to fight and scrap for every ball. We've got to create a team that when those challenges come, we're well prepared."


Very positive statements today imo

Sounds good! I'm fairly optimistic about next season. Think we may surprise a few people.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on May 21, 2018, 12:12:12 PM
James shan and Neil cutler staying.

A new assistant head coach coming in.

No player to be bought in without moore agreeing.

We have a "strong budget"

We don't have to sell to balance the books

--

On the style of play..
The league has many different hurdles, they'll see a team that will play football when it's needed, but also a team that's willing to fight and scrap for every ball. We've got to create a team that when those challenges come, we're well prepared."


Very positive statements today imo

That's what I got out of it too. I'm very optimistic for the coming season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Cantello on May 21, 2018, 12:15:55 PM
Let's give Big Dave time and patience. For the first time in my memory, there's a true Albion man in charge.  That's got to be worth celebrating!  Hope the Hawthorns is rocking again next season; we have to play our part too.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on May 21, 2018, 12:22:51 PM
Let's give Big Dave time and patience. For the first time in my memory, there's a true Albion man in charge.  That's got to be worth celebrating!  Hope the Hawthorns is rocking again next season; we have to play our part too.

I think that's key. I would hope that he has got some time in the bank from all fans and we remember what he has been a part of when things get tough and results don't go as expected.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on May 21, 2018, 01:36:45 PM
Will have full support from me, more than I would give most managers certainly given his status in my eyes, as all managers get from me when they first start until it becomes obvious that they are not right for the job.

Time to get behind the boys and hope for an extremely successful season with some exciting signings.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on May 21, 2018, 02:10:57 PM
Happy with what has come out of the press conference today. I didn't want Moore to get the job, but I would love it if he turns out to be a revelation.

Surprised we haven't had the retained list yet, expect we'll see it in the next couple of days. With our supposed 'strong budget', hopefully we won't be feeling the need to hang on to players who we really should be letting go. I'd be disappointed if Moore retains Myhill, Morrison and McAuley out of loyalty, we really need to be moving on.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: MarkW on May 21, 2018, 03:28:23 PM
Happy with what has come out of the press conference today. I didn't want Moore to get the job, but I would love it if he turns out to be a revelation.

Surprised we haven't had the retained list yet, expect we'll see it in the next couple of days. With our supposed 'strong budget', hopefully we won't be feeling the need to hang on to players who we really should be letting go. I'd be disappointed if Moore retains Myhill, Morrison and McAuley out of loyalty, we really need to be moving on.

Re: a retained list. Think DM said that he would be speaking to the players this week, so I would expect something to come out next week
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 21, 2018, 05:29:17 PM
With regard to the player situation, I am far more comfortable with the reasoned, measured and calculated approach that Darren and the club are employing in this area, more so than the "shoot from the hip" approach and get rid ASAP approach as it's "more professional".

We live in a society where most things are disposable, including relationships, and instant success is a demanded more than something to be earned.

I am very optimistic about the new era the club, Head Coach et al, players and us fans are embarking on, my half full glass is overflowing 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Critical Baggie on May 21, 2018, 05:31:37 PM
Was disappointed to see a bit of the negative feedback about Moore getting the job. He's earned it on merit, yes albeit as a Caretaker and the pressure off but we haven't had any momentum in some time now so thought it would be foolish not to be opportunistic and instead appoint someone with so called experience (and look whats thats give us this past 18 months).

Everything is in Big Dave's favour; the players, the coaches, the staff, the board, football people in general really....and hopefully all our supporters! He's been promoted 4 times and knows how it's done and rightly managing everyones expectations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPoBu2ZLLhU

Come on Big Dave and COYB!

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on May 21, 2018, 05:55:05 PM
Just seen the interview. I have never wanted a manager to succeed as much as I do Darren Moore. We have to wait and see about style and how he does but in terms of a person representing our club I have not been as proud in a long time. After the Pulis era and Pardew debacle (taxi gate etc) to have DM in charge Represents a new day.
If people think of the Albion and see Darren Moore then I am proud of that.
What an amazing ambassador.

Hoping he can be successful.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on May 21, 2018, 06:05:05 PM
Just seen the interview. I have never wanted a manager to succeed as much as I do Darren Moore. We have to wait and see about style and how he does but in terms of a person representing our club I have not been as proud in a long time. After the Pulis era and Pardew debacle (taxi gate etc) to have DM in charge Represents a new day.
If people think of the Albion and see Darren Moore then I am proud of that.
What an amazing ambassador.

Hoping he can be successful.

Very well said indeed sir :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on May 21, 2018, 06:06:59 PM
Dave is also a member of the management committee of the PFA.
He has completed his FA badges,he's been promoted 4 times.
Born in Handsworth as well.
He is certainly no lightweight as some seem to portray him.
A well respected person in football.
I think his time has arrived,he's paid his dues,he will succeed at the Albion, the club he loves.
Well done mate,can't wait to see who we sign and maybe not all will leave.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 21, 2018, 06:18:48 PM
Was disappointed to see a bit of the negative feedback about Moore getting the job. He's earned it on merit, yes albeit as a Caretaker and the pressure off but we haven't had any momentum in some time now so thought it would be foolish not to be opportunistic and instead appoint someone with so called experience (and look whats thats give us this past 18 months).

Everything is in Big Dave's favour; the players, the coaches, the staff, the board, football people in general really....and hopefully all our supporters! He's been promoted 4 times and knows how it's done and rightly managing everyones expectations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPoBu2ZLLhU

Come on Big Dave and COYB!


in today's world, people make a good living out of having an opposing view, sometime they are right and sometimes they are not, but hindsight is a wonderful vision.

I prefer to go with my initial "gut feeling" and Darren will do for me!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: charlebaggie on May 21, 2018, 06:20:56 PM
When I first heard it was Darren Moore it didn't really excite me ,but listening to his interview and watching footage when he played for us I'm beginning to warm to his appointment.Wears his heart on his sleeve and a Baggie through and through.Heres a thought to throw around Assistant Head coach to be named.  Gary Megson anyone ?? :o
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on May 21, 2018, 06:26:45 PM
I think everyone loves Big Dave, even though there are doubts about whether he is the right bloke for the job (there would be no candidate who everyone wanted)

What comes across though in his interviews is how much this means to him, when he talks about his love of the Albion, he means it, we have had numerous managers previous who say all the right things - famous old club, loyal fanbase, etc, etc and they probably mean it in their own way but Big Dave is one of us and he just gets it.

This isnt just any ex player taking over, i said previous if we wanted the sentiment route we could of got Super Bob, AJ, etc in, but this is Darren Moore, quite possibly the biggest cult hero of the last 20 years, certainly in the top 3, a legend already who has worked his way up, got the qualifications and now has the chance which he probably one day dreamed of he when he first started those badges and on the coaching ladder.

I have never wanted somebody to succeed at the Albion as much as i do Big Dave, a gentle giant, a great man and so far it would seem a very good coach too, i think we will see a team reflecting his values on the pitch and that can only be a good thing, i think every player will be made to earn their corn and play with some pride, hopefully with plenty of entertainment along the way.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: charlebaggie on May 21, 2018, 06:32:29 PM
I think everyone loves Big Dave, even though there are doubts about whether he is the right bloke for the job (there would be no candidate who everyone wanted)

What comes across though in his interviews is how much this means to him, when he talks about his love of the Albion, he means it, we have had numerous managers previous who say all the right things - famous old club, loyal fanbase, etc, etc and they probably mean it in their own way but Big Dave is one of us and he just gets it.

This isnt just any ex player taking over, i said previous if we wanted the sentiment route we could of got Super Bob, AJ, etc in, but this is Darren Moore, quite possibly the biggest cult hero of the last 20 years, certainly in the top 3, a legend already who has worked his way up, got the qualifications and now has the chance which he probably one day dreamed of he when he first started those badges and on the coaching ladder.

I have never wanted somebody to succeed at the Albion as much as i do Big Dave, a gentle giant, a great man and so far it would seem a very good coach too, i think we will see a team reflecting his values on the pitch and that can only be a good thing, i think every player will be made to earn their corn and play with some pride, hopefully with plenty of entertainment along the way.
.    Well said Baggie 79 my sentiments exactly.Great post
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Critical Baggie on May 21, 2018, 06:44:40 PM
in today's world, people make a good living out of having an opposing view, sometime they are right and sometimes they are not, but hindsight is a wonderful vision.

I prefer to go with my initial "gut feeling" and Darren will do for me!!

Certainly! However I did just think it would of been a lot more heartbreaking starting next season on a bad run with a different man in charge, would of been a really horrible 'what if' moment if we didn't try ride the momentum but yeah of course theres not guarantee Big Dave is going to succeed but lets cross that bridge when come to it  ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 21, 2018, 09:53:47 PM
I've been waiting to hear more on Darren's thoughts on our style of play going forward. We didn't get much today apart from "play attractive football when it's needed". It was good to see him mention attractive football, but what he meant by "when it's needed" is unclear.

To my mind, positive attacking football (and I don't mean Route 1) should be Plan A, with other approaches being the fall-back. Having a resilient defence is fine, but we need to have possession more and show more intent and threat when we do have the ball.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on May 21, 2018, 10:06:50 PM
I've been waiting to hear more on Darren's thoughts on our style of play going forward. We didn't get much today apart from "play attractive football when it's needed". It was good to see him mention attractive football, but what he meant by "when it's needed" is unclear.

To my mind, positive attacking football (and I don't mean Route 1) should be Plan A, with other approaches being the fall-back. Having a resilient defence is fine, but we need to have possession more and show more intent and threat when we do have the ball.


From reports thus far, I'm not sure style is top of the agenda.

If I've understood DM right he's basically saying he'll adopt "situation management" to games to get results.
Like others have said, I'm not sure how big DM's tactical portfolio is, if it's limited, you would hope we'd employ an assistant to fill the gaps.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 21, 2018, 10:10:33 PM
From reports thus far, I'm not sure style is top of the agenda.
Jenkins said what he said a few weeks ago and I thing it would be wrong for the club to try to quietly sweep that under the carpet. Style of play is key to deciding what players to sign, so it can't be ignored. "Situation management" smacks of playing for 1-0 wins to me and I don't want to see us going down that road once again.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kc56wba on May 21, 2018, 10:46:05 PM
Jenkins said what he said a few weeks ago and I thing it would be wrong for the club to try to quietly sweep that under the carpet. Style of play is key to deciding what players to sign, so it can't be ignored. "Situation management" smacks of playing for 1-0 wins to me and I don't want to see us going down that road once again.

Worked with Sir Gary Megson.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 21, 2018, 10:52:51 PM
Worked with Sir Gary Megson.
Yes and it wasn't good to watch, unless all you're bothered about is winning the game at any cost. Do you really want yet more negative football after 3 years of Pulis?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on May 21, 2018, 10:55:21 PM
Jenkins said what he said a few weeks ago and I thing it would be wrong for the club to try to quietly sweep that under the carpet. Style of play is key to deciding what players to sign, so it can't be ignored. "Situation management" smacks of playing for 1-0 wins to me and I don't want to see us going down that road once again.
Situation management could also refer to changes made during a game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 21, 2018, 10:55:46 PM
With regard to the player situation, I am far more comfortable with the reasoned, measured and calculated approach that Darren and the club are employing in this area, more so than the "shoot from the hip" approach and get rid ASAP approach as it's "more professional".

We live in a society where most things are disposable, including relationships, and instant success is a demanded more than something to be earned.

I am very optimistic about the new era the club, Head Coach et al, players and us fans are embarking on, my half full glass is overflowing

Great post.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on May 21, 2018, 10:56:37 PM
Why don't we give Gary Megson a swerve now guys,he's history ,getting a bit fed up of him being something of a recurring mesiah.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ripryan1971 on May 21, 2018, 10:57:48 PM
Lads its a results business and soon as you get that in your heads all will be fine. I don't want to be playing pretty football and stuck in midtable of Championship and there's teams that do that.

If you don't conceed goals you get 1 point, and you build from there, there's no guarantee of points if you score 2-3 goals in a game, if your defence is poor
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kc56wba on May 21, 2018, 11:12:41 PM
Yes and it wasn't good to watch, unless all you're bothered about is winning the game at any cost. Do you really want yet more negative football after 3 years of Pulis?

If Darren does the same as Megson, play offs in the first season in charge and the promotion in the second year fans wont care if it is 1-0 wins just so long as they win. One thing they wont stand for is defeat after defeat no matter if the football is attractive.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on May 21, 2018, 11:15:02 PM
Jenkins said what he said a few weeks ago and I thing it would be wrong for the club to try to quietly sweep that under the carpet. Style of play is key to deciding what players to sign, so it can't be ignored. "Situation management" smacks of playing for 1-0 wins to me and I don't want to see us going down that road once again.

"Situation Management" is exactly what it says on the tin, you manage situations.

As far as player recruitment is concerned, I agree with a number of other posters, that we're screaming out for a number 10.
At this stage, we don't know who's going & who's staying, but if we're going down the "situation management" route, we'll need a number of versatile players.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on May 22, 2018, 12:25:48 AM
Sorry situational management is not how football works. Coaches have a default style they can tweak it they adapt it within the overall parameters of the style but there is common idea or philosophy at the heart of it.

Take one of the most consistent style templates from the last decade or so Mourinho's 4-2-3-1. Against weaker opposition particularly at home. The full backs and the double pivot camp in the opposition half pinning their opponents back allowing the front four to operate within the final third constantly probing for openings while recycling possession either among themselves or back through the deep sitting midfielders.

Equally the same formation when deployed against one of the bigger teams is used to form a deep sitting block with a couple of out balls. The same personnel are often deployed in both versions.

Darren will find a playing identity, he needs to be clear about what it is and what he needs to make it work.

Today it is not clear.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on May 22, 2018, 08:37:51 AM
Sorry situational management is not how football works. Coaches have a default style they can tweak it they adapt it within the overall parameters of the style but there is common idea or philosophy at the heart of it.

Take one of the most consistent style templates from the last decade or so Mourinho's 4-2-3-1. Against weaker opposition particularly at home. The full backs and the double pivot camp in the opposition half pinning their opponents back allowing the front four to operate within the final third constantly probing for openings while recycling possession either among themselves or back through the deep sitting midfielders.

Equally the same formation when deployed against one of the bigger teams is used to form a deep sitting block with a couple of out balls. The same personnel are often deployed in both versions.

Darren will find a playing identity, he needs to be clear about what it is and what he needs to make it work.

Today it is not clear.

Stan,

First of all let me say, your knowledge of football tactics is far more advanced than mine, & I wouldn't take issue with anything you say, however..........
Darren More was asked about style, & his reply suggested that he would attempt to manage situations as they arose.
You may well be right, that successful, high profile coaches have a default style & a situation management style per ce is just too complex, or costly to adopt.

Darren is making all the right noises right now, but there is a lot of idealism in his speeches, think we really need an experienced assistant for him as a foil.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on May 22, 2018, 09:35:05 AM
Yesterday he said:
 â€œI want to build a team that has different dimensions to it. The fans can expect a team that will play attractive football but also a team that’s willing to fight and scrap for every ball."

“There’s many different challenges but we need to create a team that can be prepared for those challenges. We will need to be mentally and physically prepared."

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/may/moore-outlines-battle-plan/
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on May 22, 2018, 09:46:07 AM
I haven't read a lot of what has come out in the media, not overly fussed on it, I will judge on what I see on the pitch.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on May 22, 2018, 09:50:07 AM
I remember Pardew constantly talking up the style of play he wanted and we know where that went. As Fritzl says, we can only judge what we see on the pitch over time.

Hopefully, we'll see the style evolve whilst maintaining decent results. The start of the season is about hitting the ground running, getting results and being top 4 by November/ Christmas. Then we can try to evolve and develop the way we play whilst winning. I don't know of many teams that play great, attacking but losing football and sustain this. Mowbray's premier league team was pedestrian and boring to watch for me.

A nice balance with a team who can actually keep the ball more at home and break with pace, quickly , especially away from home whilst being defensively sound would be very nice indeed. Oh yes, a natural finisher or two to put them away would be perfect.

We need a midfield first though - something we haven't had for a few years!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on May 22, 2018, 11:19:54 AM
I like what he is saying. Flexibility is the key to any successful business, the thought that one method will work ad infinitum is ridiculous.
Both Pulis and Pardew, whilst polar opposites in terms of style, both fell victim of their inability to change, sticking to their, frankly, tired and tested methods and paid the price.
One of the worst phrases in business, for me, is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". The only way to ensure a process is still fit for purpose is to constantly review and update.
With this in mind, Big Dave's "Inexperience" could be a blessing, in that he doesn't have a deeply ingrained style, which will hopefully allow him to be more flexible and adaptable.
In order to play free flowing, attacking football, the most important ingredient is confidence, the best way to build confidence is to win games. To this end, I would fully expect us to start off next season in a similar vein to which we ended last. If this works and we get points on the board then, gradually, we can expand on our style. In order to do this of course, you have to have the personnel, which is what he alluded to in his conference. We need to build a squad and an ethos that is capable of both.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on May 22, 2018, 11:36:42 AM
Hey setee,I agree with you that in football flexibility is key but not always in business.
If you have a successful business plan don't change it e.g.MacDonald's,that's the same formula all over the world ,I think that works don't you?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on May 22, 2018, 12:24:29 PM
Hey setee,I agree with you that in football flexibility is key but not always in business.
If you have a successful business plan don't change it e.g.MacDonald's,that's the same formula all over the world ,I think that works don't you?
The basics may appear the same but I can pretty much guarantee that McDonalds will have changed their operating methods significantly over the years. They would constantly have to review methods, ingredients, trends etc.
Not resting on one's laurels was more the message.
The amount of times I've gone into a new business and seen something odd, so asked why they do it that way, and got the response "We've always done it that way" is scary.
The very best businesses are always one step ahead of the game, but the very ninimum requirement is to keep up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on May 22, 2018, 12:28:50 PM
Hi mate,I reiterate that their basic plan has stayed the same they may tweak the ingredients but I can tell you that their chocolate milkshake tastes the same here,in new York and Japan!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on May 22, 2018, 12:29:58 PM
The basics may appear the same but I can pretty much guarantee that McDonalds will have changed their operating methods significantly over the years. They would constantly have to review methods, ingredients, trends etc.
Not resting on one's laurels was more the message.
The amount of times I've gone into a new business and seen something odd, so asked why they do it that way, and got the response "We've always done it that way" is scary.
The very best businesses are always one step ahead of the game, but the very ninimum requirement is to keep up.

Totally agree. Have to be able to adapt to change or if you want to be the best, be the trendsetter.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on May 22, 2018, 12:41:07 PM
Hi mate,I reiterate that their basic plan has stayed the same they may tweak the ingredients but I can tell you that their chocolate milkshake tastes the same here,in new York and Japan!
Don't disagree that some things may never change, doesn't mean you don't review it to ensure it's still relevant. If you do it on a regular basis then it becomes, as you say, subtle teaks, whereas, if left too long, then it can involve major changes, which can prove catastrophic.
Could argue that this is what we did with Pulis and just assumed that he would always keep us up, because that's what he'd always done. When we realised this was not the case, it was too late for minor tweaks and we tried to change too much, too soon.
The key is not to assume something is still fit for purpose, without actually proving it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on May 22, 2018, 01:23:22 PM
Come to think about it Ollie,are there many strikers who have made good coaches?
They seem to be mostly defenders don't they?
Is there one ex striker who's a coach in the premier or championship?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 22, 2018, 01:27:44 PM
I'm puzzled why so many people have a fixation that:

Defensive football => promotion
Attacking football => mid-table obscurity

It's not black and white - both styles of play can be effective and both can fail miserably. Let's try to build a squad which can attack with pace/flair and be resolute in defence, surely everyone can agree with that approach?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on May 22, 2018, 01:34:47 PM
Devils advocate,
Mourinhio has parked the bus many times!
Pep & Conte have squads of 20 plus A grade players,

DM will have a core of players he will use as much as possible and then flex the others when he feels its appropriate. The key is, will the core be progressive or conservative? and, will the more peripheral players be competent to influence games as required by the tactics?

To compare what will be a championship squad with Prem top 6 resources is frankly a redundant discussion
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on May 22, 2018, 01:50:10 PM
Come to think about it Ollie,are there many strikers who have made good coaches?
They seem to be mostly defenders don't they?
Is there one ex striker who's a coach in the premier or championship?

Mark Hughes is the only 1 in the Prem, Klopp started out as a striker at Mainz but then became a defender!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 22, 2018, 07:27:15 PM
I didn't hear all of the Radio WM phone-in at 6.00pm this evening, where Darren was taking calls from fans, but I did catch 2 questions regarding our style of play going forward. The first was from Paul Franks, but Darren dodged it by turning it round to make it about counteracting the opposition. Approaching games through fear of the opposition is obviously something he's learned from Pulis over the years. Right at the end of the phone-in, a fan also asked him about our style of play (referring to Pulis's dire football in the process), but Darren was non-committal again, merely referring to us playing with 2 strikers and 2 wide players during his 6 game caretaker stint, but saying nothing about us conceding so much possession.

Judging by Darren's comments tonight, what Jenkins said about us adopting a much more attacking style of play isn't going to happen. Obviously we'll have to see who goes and who comes in before we get a better idea, but I wasn't encouraged by what was said this evening.

What we seem to have forgotten is that it's not just about playing with 2 strikers and 2 wide players, but that we need to both be able get behind teams and also play through them. For example, Albion have become almost devoid of the ability to play through balls. It's a vital aspect of attacking, but we've pretty much stopped using it as a method of creating chances. We need to be able to attack in a number of different ways so that we're not one-dimensional and give the opposition several things to worry about. I hope to see some evidence of this being recognised and acted upon as we go through the summer and into next season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on May 22, 2018, 07:44:54 PM
I didn't hear all of the Radio WM phone-in at 6.00pm this evening, where Darren was taking calls from fans, but I did catch 2 questions regarding our style of play going forward. The first was from Paul Franks, but Darren dodged it by turning it round to make it about counteracting the opposition. Approaching games through fear of the opposition is obviously something he's learned from Pulis over the years. Right at the end of the phone-in, a fan also asked him about our style of play (referring to Pulis's dire football in the process), but Darren was non-committal again, merely referring to us playing with 2 strikers and 2 wide players during his 6 game caretaker stint, but saying nothing about us conceding so much possession.

Judging by Darren's comments tonight, what Jenkins said about us adopting a much more attacking style of play isn't going to happen. Obviously we'll have to see who goes and who comes in before we get a better idea, but I wasn't encouraged by what was said this evening.

What we seem to have forgotten is that it's not just about playing with 2 strikers and 2 wide players, but that we need to both be able get behind teams and also play through them. For example, Albion have become almost devoid of the ability to play through balls. It's a vital aspect of attacking, but we've pretty much stopped using it as a method of creating chances. We need to be able to attack in a number of different ways so that we're not one-dimensional and give the opposition several things to worry about. I hope to see some evidence of this being recognised and acted upon as we go through the summer and into next season.
I'm extremely concerned about the appointment. It's clear from his answers to every interview that he has no tactical knowledge (including his responses to last season's post-match interviews), and his stock answer about "togetherness"/related platitudes is already becoming repetitive. This is consistent with his (albeit successful) frankly baffling substitutions and the fact he has predominantly played/coached under Megson, Billy Davies and Pulis. I only hope that the coaches behind the scenes (Cutler, Shan, the new assistant) have much greater tactical and technical knowledge, and will be taking care of this side of things.

I suspect that posters claiming that he is just "keeping his cards close to his chest" or being "flexible" are thinking wishfully, and reading far more into his answers than what really exists - which is that they simply lack substance.

This may seem harsh given his status with the club, and again, I genuinely hope to be proved badly, badly wrong. But, I fear that there will be a slow realisation of my point over the course of next season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: telford baggie on May 22, 2018, 08:07:17 PM
amazing how many people will accept defensive football now big dave is in charge but wouldnt under pulis! and how forgiving they are of the rubbish that was on the pitch last season,all of a sudden want them to stay. dont go blaming lai and jenkins when this all goes wrong
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on May 22, 2018, 08:22:18 PM
Sorry situational management is not how football works. Coaches have a default style they can tweak it they adapt it within the overall parameters of the style but there is common idea or philosophy at the heart of it.

Take one of the most consistent style templates from the last decade or so Mourinho's 4-2-3-1. Against weaker opposition particularly at home. The full backs and the double pivot camp in the opposition half pinning their opponents back allowing the front four to operate within the final third constantly probing for openings while recycling possession either among themselves or back through the deep sitting midfielders.

Equally the same formation when deployed against one of the bigger teams is used to form a deep sitting block with a couple of out balls. The same personnel are often deployed in both versions.

Darren will find a playing identity, he needs to be clear about what it is and what he needs to make it work.

Today it is not clear.

There's more to 'Situational Management' than that, and you've probably cited one of the worst case manager's in this instance. Situational management does indeed focus on flexibility and change, but this includes incorporation of the resources at your disposal in the present time. Ie, don't ask people to do what they can't do. Mourinho constantly slates those who can't do what he asks them to do.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: leeiswba on May 22, 2018, 08:33:24 PM
I don’t know what some people mean by attacking football, there is some kind of middle ground between Pulis and Mowbray for instance. All these that crave this certain attacking football can they tell me which teams play like this?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on May 22, 2018, 08:34:52 PM
Pardew played more attacking football :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VVVAlbion on May 22, 2018, 09:02:07 PM
Pardew, like Pepe Mel before him, tried to get the club to run before it could walk and change the mindset and style of a group of players brought together to play in a certain way. Moore, like Downing and Kiely before him, went back to basics and playing (more) to the strengths of the players available to them. Ultimately we don't really know what Big Dave is going to offer (one of my concerns about his appointment) and we may only get an indication when we start recruiting. If we are linked to a lot of 6ft 6 centre halfs, start worrying.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: alwaysbilly on May 22, 2018, 09:45:08 PM
I don’t know what some people mean by attacking football, there is some kind of middle ground between Pulis and Mowbray for instance. All these that crave this certain attacking football can they tell me which teams play like this?
Not too many get out of the championship playing flowing football.

I like the idea of a team that can play but also can scrap - we need some Sean Gregans, Siggi’s, Moore’s mixed with good attack minded players
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 22, 2018, 09:46:23 PM
I don’t know what some people mean by attacking football, there is some kind of middle ground between Pulis and Mowbray for instance. All these that crave this certain attacking football can they tell me which teams play like this?
The middle ground you refer to is fine, but we haven't occupied it for some considerable time. Pardew tried to make us more attacking, but it backfired for whatever reason (which perhaps had a much to do with players being out of the comfort zone as Pardew's ineptitude). There's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't sign suitable players and then set up to play in a similar manner to how Wolves, Fulham and Wigan have approached this season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 22, 2018, 10:17:16 PM
Not too many get out of the championship playing flowing football.
2017-18:
The top 2 clubs were in the top 8 for average shots on goal
The champions (Wolves) were 5th for possession %
The champions were 2nd for passing accuracy
The champions scored 82 goals. The next 2 highest scorers (Villa & Fulham) are in the play-off final.
Fulham were 1st for both possession % and passing accuracy
2016-17:
The 3 promoted clubs were in the top 8 for average shots on goal
The 3 promoted clubs were in the top 7 for possession %
The 3 promoted clubs were in the top 6 for passing accuracy
The champions (Newcastle) scored 85 goals. The runners-up (Brighton) scored 74.
2015-16:
The top 2 clubs (Hull and Middlesbrough) had the highest average shots on goal
2 of the promoted clubs were in the top 7 for possession %
2 of the promoted clubs were in the top 3 for passing accuracy
No-one else scored more goals than the champions (Burnley) - 72 goals
2014-15:
The 3 promoted clubs were in the top 8 for average shots on goal
The 3 promoted clubs were in the top 9 for possession %
The 3 promoted clubs were in the top 7 for passing accuracy
The champions (Bournemouth) scored 95 goals. The runners-up (Watford) scored 91. Norwich (who won the play-offs) scored 88.
2013-14:
3 promoted clubs were in the top 9 for average shots on goal
The 2 of the promoted clubs were in the top 7 for possession %
The champions (Leicester) scored 83 goals. The runners-up (Burnley) scored 72.

Source: Whoscored.com (https://www.whoscored.com)

Stats aren't available on that website for earlier seasons.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 22, 2018, 10:47:26 PM
2017-18:
The top 2 clubs were in the top 8 for average shots on goal
The champions (Wolves) were 5th for possession %
The champions were 2nd for passing accuracy
The champions scored 82 goals. The next 2 highest scorers (Villa & Fulham) are in the play-off final.
Fulham were 1st for both possession % and passing accuracy
2016-17:
The 3 promoted clubs were in the top 8 for average shots on goal
The 3 promoted clubs were in the top 7 for possession %
The 3 promoted clubs were in the top 6 for passing accuracy
The champions (Newcastle) scored 85 goals. The runners-up (Brighton) scored 74.
2015-16:
The top 2 clubs (Hull and Middlesbrough) had the highest average shots on goal
2 of the promoted clubs were in the top 7 for possession %
2 of the promoted clubs were in the top 3 for passing accuracy
No-one else scored more goals than the champions (Burnley) - 72 goals
2014-15:
The 3 promoted clubs were in the top 8 for average shots on goal
The 3 promoted clubs were in the top 9 for possession %
The 3 promoted clubs were in the top 7 for passing accuracy
The champions (Bournemouth) scored 95 goals. The runners-up (Watford) scored 91. Norwich (who won the play-offs) scored 88.
2013-14:
3 promoted clubs were in the top 9 for average shots on goal
The 2 of the promoted clubs were in the top 7 for possession %
The champions (Leicester) scored 83 goals. The runners-up (Burnley) scored 72.

Source: Whoscored.com (https://www.whoscored.com)

Stats aren't available on that website for earlier seasons.


Some of the teams that scored the most goals got promoted... Brilliant insight mate.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on May 22, 2018, 10:52:44 PM
You don’t have to play freeflowing attacking football to scores lots of goals.

What is wrong with Darren Moore putting out a balanced team? Solid at the back with good counters, and also good in possession with a real impetus going forward?

You can be all those things.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 22, 2018, 11:12:15 PM
You don’t have to play freeflowing attacking football to scores lots of goals.

What is wrong with Darren Moore putting out a balanced team? Solid at the back with good counters, and also good in possession with a real impetus going forward?

You can be all those things.


Absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on May 22, 2018, 11:22:20 PM
You don’t have to play freeflowing attacking football to scores lots of goals.

What is wrong with Darren Moore putting out a balanced team? Solid at the back with good counters, and also good in possession with a real impetus going forward?

You can be all those things.

The only person who ever achieved all of that was Ranieri at Leicester in fairness.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 22, 2018, 11:35:22 PM
What is wrong with Darren Moore putting out a balanced team? Solid at the back with good counters, and also good in possession with a real impetus going forward?
Nothing's wrong with it at all, there's just no indication at present that it's how we're going to play.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Barrington on May 23, 2018, 05:34:35 AM
Anyone else notice how many times he says "West Bromwich Albion Football Club" when being interviewed? Going to start making a note of how often he uses the full name, because it's quite frequent, and slightly annoying  ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on May 23, 2018, 07:39:02 AM
The only person who ever achieved all of that was Ranieri at Leicester in fairness.

Leicester weren’t really that balanced, they were ultra defensive with devastating counters and balls over the top. We took points off of them but playing them at their own game. They didn’t really know what to do with possession.

Darren Moore is already on record as saying he wants his teams to be effective in possession.

Any manager worth his salt try’s to counter act opposition strengths. Unless your Man City with infinite resources you have to. Pulis took it too far and only worried about the opposition. Nothing to suggest Moore is going to do that.

I don’t think we’ll be playing tippy tappy but I expect Moore to like quick, strong, athletic and committed players and that lends itself to some exciting football.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiebof on May 23, 2018, 08:00:56 AM
Leicester weren’t really that balanced, they were ultra defensive with devastating counters and balls over the top. We took points off of them but playing them at their own game. They didn’t really know what to do with possession.

What you are saying is generally true however they were better in possession than you are giving them credit for; I certainly remember them at our place having their full backs high and Schmeichel throwing the ball out to them or rolling it to Kante or Drinkwater in between the centre backs. Maher and Albrighton were threats wide too.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on May 23, 2018, 08:54:44 AM
Anyone else notice how many times he says "West Bromwich Albion Football Club" when being interviewed? Going to start making a note of how often he uses the full name, because it's quite frequent, and slightly annoying  ;D


That's who we are and that's what we're called. I hate being called West Brom.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 23, 2018, 09:11:31 AM

That's who we are and that's what we're called. I hate being called West Brom.

I'm not keen on that abbreviation either. The full name is fine, doesn't annoy me; in fact it sounds reverential.

But if you're going to shorten it or nickname it, Albion, Throstles, Baggies...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ashcroft19 on May 23, 2018, 09:14:18 AM
Quite right, I dislike us being referred to as “theAlbion” . We are West Bromwich Albion, to miss of the West Bromwich is losing our identity.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: miggybaggy on May 23, 2018, 09:16:58 AM

That's who we are and that's what we're called. I hate being called West Brom.

Christ, yes!! So do I! I thought I was alone in thinking that. We're the Albion or the Baggies. Or the full monty as Darren says. End of.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on May 23, 2018, 10:03:21 AM
have to change the words to one of our songs then!

West Brom FC from, the black country......
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on May 23, 2018, 10:23:30 AM
Anyone else notice how many times he says "West Bromwich Albion Football Club" when being interviewed? Going to start making a note of how often he uses the full name, because it's quite frequent, and slightly annoying  ;D

Yes and I think it's great  ;D !
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mr Cynical on May 23, 2018, 11:15:18 AM
we may only get an indication when we start recruiting. If we are linked to a lot of 6ft 6 centre halfs, start worrying.

Although we do need at least 2 centre halfs... so don't worry prematurely...

If we can get back to a midfield that played like Morrison, Gera, Brunt and Texiera, Robbie Koren and Greeno (I think they were the words?) then we'll have overachieved.

I hope Big Dave is recruiting to fit his style and that it will be aspirational.  I hope that playing a better type of football is part of the brief he's been given.  Most of us will remember that a lot of the time in the championship its a battle of attrition that you have to overcome in order to play your football. 

In reality the players that stay should provide the experience and we should be looking to find young dynamic players to fill the gaps.  Much like Burnt and Morrison were 10 years ago.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wigmore on May 23, 2018, 12:15:09 PM
Anyone else notice how many times he says "West Bromwich Albion Football Club" when being interviewed? Going to start making a note of how often he uses the full name, because it's quite frequent, and slightly annoying  ;D

It looks like you are going to be very busy noting DM's reiteration of our club's name.
If he wants to say it each and every time he opens his mouth, that's fine by me (and other posters, judging by the responses).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on May 23, 2018, 01:40:07 PM
Although we do need at least 2 centre halfs... so don't worry prematurely...

If we can get back to a midfield that played like Morrison, Gera, Brunt and Texiera, Robbie Koren and Greeno (I think they were the words?) then we'll have overachieved.

I hope Big Dave is recruiting to fit his style and that it will be aspirational.  I hope that playing a better type of football is part of the brief he's been given.  Most of us will remember that a lot of the time in the championship its a battle of attrition that you have to overcome in order to play your football. 

In reality the players that stay should provide the experience and we should be looking to find young dynamic players to fill the gaps.  Much like Burnt and Morrison were 10 years ago.

There were a load of different versions of this but I think the one that encapsulated the most was Morrison, Gera, Brunt and Texeira, Kim, Koren and Jono-o-oh.

Sadly I can't see us having an exciting midfield like that next season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 23, 2018, 03:40:57 PM
Anyone else notice how many times he says "West Bromwich Albion Football Club" when being interviewed? Going to start making a note of how often he uses the full name, because it's quite frequent, and slightly annoying  ;D

I think he is reinforcing our identity, which has gone AWOL in the last few years and I wholeheartedly agree with him
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on May 23, 2018, 05:04:00 PM
There were a load of different versions of this but I think the one that encapsulated the most was Morrison, Gera, Brunt and Texeira, Kim, Koren and Jono-o-oh.

Sadly I can't see us having an exciting midfield like that next season.
Morrison, Gera, Brunt & Texeira, Robert Koren & Jonno
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: letmereadposts on May 23, 2018, 05:48:53 PM
Anyone else notice how many times he says "West Bromwich Albion Football Club" when being interviewed? Going to start making a note of how often he uses the full name, because it's quite frequent, and slightly annoying  ;D

You're criticising a club legend for referring to our club its full name.

If this is the kind of criticism Big Dave will be facing then West Bromwich Albion Football Club will have a much lower chance of promotion than I anticipated.

Our new manager has installed a level of identity and pride at a speed I didn't think was possible, particularly considering the damage by Pardew and Pulis.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on May 23, 2018, 05:53:29 PM
I didn't think they'd go for Moore, but now they have, I am going to stop worrying about it and just get behind him 100%

Come on you West Bromwich Albion!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Barrington on May 23, 2018, 06:05:47 PM
You're criticising a club legend for referring to our club its full name.

If this is the kind of criticism Big Dave will be facing then West Bromwich Albion Football Club will have a much lower chance of promotion than I anticipated.

Our new manager has installed a level of identity and pride at a speed I didn't think was possible, particularly considering the damage by Pardew and Pulis.

Crikey guys. See my previous post about Moore in this thread saying that I am very happy about it. I was highlighting a little quirk that personally cranks ME slightly. Notice the big Smiley at the end. No need to get so hurt about it or take it quite so seriously......   ::)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wardy65 on May 23, 2018, 06:59:47 PM
Crikey guys. See my previous post about Moore in this thread saying that I am very happy about it. I was highlighting a little quirk that personally cranks ME slightly. Notice the big Smiley at the end. No need to get so hurt about it or take it quite so seriously......   ::)
Lol, did get shredded a bit there didn't you pal.
Tbh, I see where you're coming from, but it's been going on for years & way before big Dave was even thinking about management. I seem to remember the Dingles old boss Dave Jones being the chief culprit, with everything finishing with 'Wolverhampton Wanderers football club.'
Don't think anyone minds us being called West Bromwich Albion, but i do find the constant reminder that we're a football club a bit unnecessary.
In a way though, I'm loving the support of big Dave, & how our fans have got his back. Long may that continue. I'll be up there next week renewing mine and my 2 sons season tickets, and look forward to the appointment of hopefully Shakespeare or Super Kev, as his assistant.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 24, 2018, 01:27:51 PM
I guess we can now look forward to this forum soon being renamed to westbromwichalbionfootballclub.com. It has a certain ring to it, don't you agree?  ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on May 24, 2018, 01:49:51 PM
It rolls off the tongue. As a kid in the 60's i always got excited by the West Bromwich Albion v Manchester United fixture.
It sounded more appealing than West Brom v Man U.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on May 24, 2018, 03:37:17 PM
And, may I add, we also have a tuneful terrace song that spells it out.  ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 24, 2018, 07:36:48 PM
It rolls off the tongue. As a kid in the 60's i always got excited by the West Bromwich Albion v Manchester United fixture.
It sounded more appealing than West Brom v Man U.

Where's the 'like' button on here again?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 24, 2018, 07:38:29 PM
I guess we can now look forward to this forum soon being renamed to westbromwichalbionfootballclub.com. It has a certain ring to it, don't you agree?  ;D

Ok so you've convinced me that sometimes westbrom is fine. ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggie79 on May 24, 2018, 09:49:58 PM
I have already heard some serious moans from people about Moore that are usually very level headed and positive. If he doesn't start well I think we will see the knives coming out and his reputation under question.

I believe the fans that have been around for a longtime will cut him some slack but the premiership generation will soon turn if given any excuse.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on May 24, 2018, 09:57:55 PM
He's a baggie mate,we will give him time,give him a chance,crikey he's only had the job a matter of days.
If all these soothsayers who proficy the future were right they'd be millionaires by now.
Give the fella a break.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiebof on May 24, 2018, 10:00:35 PM
I have already heard some serious moans from people about Moore that are usually very level headed and positive.

Other fans or people closer to the club?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on May 25, 2018, 01:43:18 AM
I have already heard some serious moans from people about Moore that are usually very level headed and positive. If he doesn't start well I think we will see the knives coming out and his reputation under question.

I believe the fans that have been around for a longtime will cut him some slack but the premiership generation will soon turn if given any excuse.

I don't think there has been a Head Coach who has started their tenure with so much good will even among the small group of Albion fans who have the reservations about the appointment (according to newspaper polls he has an 85% or better approval rating).

 How long this lasts is anyone's guess. My view is if Albion fans back the appointment then they have to accept the consequences and be patient. Regardless of what I think of the appointment I am fully prepared to give Moore at least a full season in charge unless we find ourselves mired at the foot of the table at the halfway point. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: chipperclark on May 25, 2018, 02:56:07 AM
It rolls off the tongue. As a kid in the 60's i always got excited by the West Bromwich Albion v Manchester United fixture.
It sounded more appealing than West Brom v Man U.
;D I also got excited as the 1960s team was fun to watch and if the opposition scored 4 goals we would get 5.
I remember some results such as 4-4 v Arsenal,4-3 v Man Utd 5-4 v Everton. Those were the days...and I agree we are West Bromwich Albion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Black Pearl on May 25, 2018, 07:06:14 AM
I hope big Dave is astute enough to get good people around him, that is the key to success for him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 25, 2018, 04:12:07 PM
"Darren Moore looks for a range of skills for West Brom"

Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/05/25/darren-moore-looks-for-a-range-of-skills-for-west-brom/
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on May 25, 2018, 04:36:15 PM
Everything he has said so far lends itself to a team that could be very exciting to watch. Not snooze fest tippy tappy rubbish. But some exciting football no doubt, if words translate to the pitch.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on May 25, 2018, 04:46:08 PM
Everything he has said so far lends itself to a team that could be very exciting to watch. Not snooze fest tippy tappy rubbish. But some exciting football no doubt, if words translate to the pitch.

Impossible to know what to expect at this point. At least all the upheaval brings some excitement with lots of transfers due, new assistant manager, new league, new DOF, looks like absolute chaos, hopefully it all pans out. Got a lot of reservations about appointing a rookie manager at such a key time in our history but you can't deny his passion or bond with the team and fans. Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 25, 2018, 06:02:08 PM
Everything he has said so far lends itself to a team that could be very exciting to watch.
I'm not sure on what basis you've arrived at that conclusion. The best we have so far from him in terms of potential excitement is "we'll play football when needed". The obvious question that begs is under what circumstances does he think it'll be needed and we don't have the answer as yet.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 25, 2018, 06:21:43 PM
There will always be doubters and, as Darren is a confirmed Christian, he would use the Biblical character "Thomas" to describe them.

In my view, we, as fans, have to accept what Darren says are his desired intentions at this time. Obviously, in practise, it may not always go to script and be deliverable for many reasons.

If Darren didn't put forward his vision, he would be criticised. He puts forward a vision and he is doubted. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 26, 2018, 11:47:21 AM
If Darren didn't put forward his vision, he would be criticised. He puts forward a vision and he is doubted.
Online forums like this one exist to discuss everything to do with the club. What's said by those at the club gets analysed, what they do gets dissected - that's the nature of the beast and is as it should be.

Darren will be the subject of scrutiny like any other manager we've had in the past or will have in the future. Just because of his past associations with the club, I don't think that should give him a magic free pass where nothing he does or says is reacted to or questioned. As long as people try to be objective, I think that's absolutely fine.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on May 26, 2018, 01:14:33 PM
Just met him at the airport, what a top man, genuinely humble, intelligent and down to earth. He’ll do for me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on May 26, 2018, 01:23:26 PM
Is he going somewhere or is he meeting a new player?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 26, 2018, 02:08:17 PM
Online forums like this one exist to discuss everything to do with the club. What's said by those at the club gets analysed, what they do gets dissected - that's the nature of the beast and is as it should be.

Darren will be the subject of scrutiny like any other manager we've had in the past or will have in the future. Just because of his past associations with the club, I don't think that should give him a magic free pass where nothing he does or says is reacted to or questioned. As long as people try to be objective, I think that's absolutely fine.

I was stating a fact and not denying anyone a voice, weird why you would think like that

I suspect Darren would expect nothing less from the fanbase
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 26, 2018, 07:14:03 PM
I was stating a fact and not denying anyone a voice, weird why you would think like that
Calling people doubting Thomases isn't stated a fact, such a comment is loaded with subjectivity and cynicism.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on June 01, 2018, 11:05:28 AM
Do we know what DM's contract is ? I can't remember seeing anything other than 'an extended contract'. Given that he was only in charge to the end of the season originally that could mean anything.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on June 01, 2018, 03:52:16 PM
Calling people doubting Thomases isn't stated a fact, such a comment is loaded with subjectivity and cynicism.

You have obviously read into my post something that was not there and are being overscrupulous and/or pedantic and/or semantical. Could you point out where I called anyone a “Doubting Thomas” as you suggest”?

I wrote,

“There will always be doubters and, as Darren is a confirmed Christian, he would use the Biblical character "Thomas" to describe them.” 

I was actually using a simile to make a valid point if you had read the sentence more closely. 

One poster actually wrote:-

“I have already heard some serious moans from people about Moore that are usually very level headed and positive. If he doesn't start well I think we will see the knives coming out and his reputation under question”

Would you agree that post could be construed as implying and / or inferring having “doubts” and concerns about Darren on the part of “some people”? How would you describe their feelings?

Another poster wrote,

“Everything he has said so far lends itself to a team that could be very exciting to watch”

Your response,

“I'm not sure on what basis you've arrived at that conclusion. The best we have so far from him in terms of potential excitement is "we'll play football when needed". The obvious question that begs is under what circumstances does he think it'll be needed and we don't have the answer as yet”

I interpret that response as having “doubts” or were you being sceptical or something else? To a greater or lesser extent, we are all gifted /afflicted with subjectivity and cynicism, its called human nature and I’m sure you come across it or are involved in it every day.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on June 01, 2018, 05:07:29 PM
You have obviously read into my post something that was not there and are being overscrupulous and/or pedantic and/or semantical. Could you point out where I called anyone a “Doubting Thomas” as you suggest”?

I wrote,

“There will always be doubters and, as Darren is a confirmed Christian, he would use the Biblical character "Thomas" to describe them.”

I'm struggling to understand the point you're making here. You do understand that the phrase “Doubting Thomas” originally arose in the way you described? It's also always used with a negative and critical connotation, unless said in jest, but there were no emoticons in your post to suggest that you were making a joke.

I wasn't saying that there weren't doubters, or people expressing cynical views, but was commenting on your claim that people being "doubting Thomases" is a fact. Continuing with your biblical references, the obvious inference to draw from what you wrote is that anyone who has doubts about Darren is effectively a heretic.

Your view isn't a fact, it's just another opinion and that's the only point I was trying to make.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on June 02, 2018, 01:19:09 PM
I'm struggling to understand the point you're making here. You do understand that the phrase “Doubting Thomas” originally arose in the way you described? It's also always used with a negative and critical connotation, unless said in jest, but there were no emoticons in your post to suggest that you were making a joke.

I wasn't saying that there weren't doubters, or people expressing cynical views, but was commenting on your claim that people being "doubting Thomases" is a fact[/u]. Continuing with your biblical references, the obvious inference to draw from what you wrote is that anyone who has doubts about Darren is effectively a heretic.

Your view isn't a fact, it's just another opinion and that's the only point I was trying to make.

Obviously, clarification on Biblical definitions is required as you have introduce the word "Heretic" to further cloud and distort my post

Doubting Thomas - a person who refuse to believe something until they see definite proof or evidence of it.
Heretic - a belief or action that most people think is wrong, because it disagrees with beliefs that are generally accepted.

I think there is a distinct difference in definition and meaning between the two, you may not. However, there is nothing wrong with having doubts, it's a human emotion. Doubt involves the uncertainty about which decision will turn out best, we are faced with decisions every day and have doubts as to whether we have made the right choice! Personally, I fail to see how you can draw an inference to Heretic from my post given their different definitions and meanings.

I think there is enough evidence to be found on this forum to support the facts that people do doubt Darren and have included a few example for your perusal.

"Part of me feels it is a huge error, but that's more because I'd feel bad for Big Dave."
"If Big Dave had no connection to WBA would you be happy with this appointment based on his short managerial career so far?"
"He is a legend and he will get my support, but I am really worried. And I hope I am proved totally wrong."
"Everyone loves Big Dave but I don't think it's the appointment I'd hoped for"
"Moore lacks tactical knowledge and we are yet to see how he responds to defeat, let alone whether he can make really difficult decisions involved managing a football club over a full season."
"If he'd have achieved exactly the same as Stoke, who had ultimately gone down with us, would we even be considering appointing him?"
"If it's true .Then I wish him well and hope he does well.but the appointment doesn't really excite me ,so I won't be renewing my season ticket .Im out !"
"Personally I think I am giving up using this forum , it's full of non-supporting, moaners who can't wait until the bigger picture is revealed."
"I honestly wish I could get behind the appointment, but I can’t help thinking that it is completely the wrong way to move forward at a pivotal time for us."
"Feels very risky with his lack of experience. I love Big Dave but as someone else said previously, his post match interviews do turn more to cliches than indepth assessments."
"I would much prefer him to be the number 2 or joint manager if such a thing is possible (see Lincoln City!) with an experienced guy & cut his teeth the right way with a view to eventually taking the job."
"well 11.2% voting have got their wish, not a very big percentage"
"DM just seems like too much of a continuation of the old regime."
"Darren Moore made manager at a time that could make or break us. I still think i am having a nightmare."
"Amazing! Big Dave goes from hero to zero before he is even officially appointed. What a bunch of moaning Minnie's on this board."
"I don't wish ill on the bloke, but I can't see him being a success full time."
"I think what makes this decision hard to accept amongst us fans is that next season we should be the team with the ball, trying to attack, not the ones who are sitting back."
"give it until october and big dave pulis, shocking appointment"

The posters of the above aren't Heretics for expressing their doubts.

Good luck Darren, I have no evidence, but I feel you have more believers than those who are not.  :D ;D ;)

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on June 02, 2018, 01:47:17 PM
Doubt involves the uncertainty about which decision will turn out best, we are faced with decisions every day and have doubts as to whether we have made the right choice!
I understand what doubts are, but thanks for clarifying it. In my previous message I wrote: "I wasn't saying that there weren't doubters, or people expressing cynical views". I have some doubts about this appointment myself, quite large ones actually.

Good luck Darren, I have no evidence, but I feel you have more believers than those who are not.  :D ;D ;)
I'm sure that's true, but I think that if he'd been brought in having not had a past association with Albion, then the number of "believers" (to use your description) would be a lot less.

This is my last post in this sub-debate with you, as I'm sure the mods will either start removing posts or telling us to take it to PM if we continue with it!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 03, 2018, 12:05:11 AM
I understand what doubts are, but thanks for clarifying it. In my previous message I wrote: "I wasn't saying that there weren't doubters, or people expressing cynical views". I have some doubts about this appointment myself, quite large ones actually.
I'm sure that's true, but I think that if he'd been brought in having not had a past association with Albion, then the number of "believers" (to use your description) would be a lot less.

This is my last post in this sub-debate with you, as I'm sure the mods will either start removing posts or telling us to take it to PM if we continue with it!


His past association with Albion, namely 6 games and 11 points IS what got him the job.


Would we be as happy if he had no Albion association? No, but he wouldn't be in the job were that the case.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on June 03, 2018, 01:37:26 AM
He was not my choice, the appointment was probably for financial reasons.

But, he has all his coaching badges and is totally devoted to the club. Passion is the one thing money can't buy.
I'm in, let's all get behind him and create an irresitable tidal wave that nothing can withstand.
Out with negative thoughts.

We Are Albion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on June 03, 2018, 09:32:57 AM
He was not my choice, the appointment was probably for financial reasons.

But, he has all his coaching badges and is totally devoted to the club. Passion is the one thing money can't buy.
I'm in, let's all get behind him and create an irresitable tidal wave that nothing can withstand.
Out with negative thoughts.

We Are Albion.
my thoughts exactly, bring back the pride in the blue and white stripes
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on June 03, 2018, 11:24:24 AM
He was not my choice, the appointment was probably for financial reasons.

But, he has all his coaching badges and is totally devoted to the club. Passion is the one thing money can't buy.
I'm in, let's all get behind him and create an irresitable tidal wave that nothing can withstand.
Out with negative thoughts.

We Are Albion.


Nice one DW.

And as actions speak louder than words the following link may prove useful in your quest to create said irresistible tidal wave....  ;D .

https://wbatickets.co.uk/en-GB/subscriptions/season%20ticket%202018-19?hallmap
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on June 03, 2018, 04:59:45 PM
Nice one DW.

And as actions speak louder than words the following link may prove useful in your quest to create said irresistible tidal wave....  ;D .

https://wbatickets.co.uk/en-GB/subscriptions/season%20ticket%202018-19?hallmap


Can't afford an ST at the moment unless i get my redundancy. Might take in a game or two, if so i'll let you know for a meet in the Sportsman.

I hope now we have appointed Darren Moore he is given  the time to change things round.
When Giles first took over we were bottom of Div.2 at the end of September and out of the League Cup.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on June 03, 2018, 10:44:46 PM
He was not my choice, the appointment was probably for financial reasons.

But, he has all his coaching badges and is totally devoted to the club. Passion is the one thing money can't buy.
I'm in, let's all get behind him and create an irresitable tidal wave that nothing can withstand.
Out with negative thoughts.

We Are Albion.


Lovely. That's it entirely. COYB.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 03, 2018, 11:49:04 PM

Can't afford an ST at the moment unless i get my redundancy. Might take in a game or two, if so i'll let you know for a meet in the Sportsman.

I hope now we have appointed Darren Moore he is given  the time to change things round.
When Giles first took over we were bottom of Div.2 at the end of September and out of the League Cup.


Nice sentiment DW hope to see you in the Sportsman soon.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on June 04, 2018, 12:44:32 PM

Can't afford an ST at the moment unless i get my redundancy. Might take in a game or two, if so i'll let you know for a meet in the Sportsman.

I hope now we have appointed Darren Moore he is given  the time to change things round.
When Giles first took over we were bottom of Div.2 at the end of September and out of the League Cup.

Nice one.

Looking forward to a meet up.

It's been too long chap  8) .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on June 06, 2018, 07:31:44 PM
“West Brom boss Darren Moore has confidence in his contacts”

Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/06/06/west-brom-boss-darren-moore-has-confidence-in-his-contacts/
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on June 06, 2018, 08:08:56 PM
This story seems to have gone under the radar but it has alarmed me a bit. If our transfer policy is going to be based on Big Dave's phone book then I feel we really have gone back on everything that made us a success back 8 years ago.

Clubs all over the world understand the importance of good scouting now including more and more English clubs. They hire directors of football and top scouts and look all over the world for players. Big Dave will no doubt know a lot of people having played at the top level for a fair few years, however how many of his contacts will honestly know about the next big thing in the Serbian or Romanian leagues?

Good scouting could allow us to find the next Robert Lewandowski or Luca Modric (both of whom we nearly signed when theu were in their native countries). I don't want us to just look at players in the British leagues who are over priced and often limited.

I really want to look forward to the new season as it is a chance for us to start winning games again after a few tough seasons post Dan Ashworth, but there are so many alarm bells ringing for me that i'm struggling. The club needs to go back to it's basics, instead of the current situation where it is unclear who does what and how decisions are made (other than on a whim like Lai seems to do). We will only have parachute payments for a limited time. Use them wisely.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on June 06, 2018, 08:12:50 PM
This story seems to have gone under the radar but it has alarmed me a bit. If our transfer policy is going to be based on Big Dave's phone book then I feel we really have gone back on everything that made us a success back 8 years ago.

Clubs all over the world understand the importance of good scouting now including more and more English clubs. They hire directors of football and top scouts and look all over the world for players. Big Dave will no doubt know a lot of people having played at the top level for a fair few years, however how many of his contacts will honestly know about the next big thing in the Serbian or Romanian leagues?

Good scouting could allow us to find the next Robert Lewandowski or Luca Modric (both of whom we nearly signed when theu were in their native countries). I don't want us to just look at players in the British leagues who are over priced and often limited.

I really want to look forward to the new season as it is a chance for us to start winning games again after a few tough seasons post Dan Ashworth, but there are so many alarm bells ringing for me that i'm struggling. The club needs to go back to it's basics, instead of the current situation where it is unclear who does what and how decisions are made (other than on a whim like Lai seems to do). We will only have parachute payments for a limited time. Use them wisely.

I’m hoping that story is one dimensional, considering we have a Technical Consultant, Giuliano Terraneo, who was given responsibilities for recruitment.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on June 06, 2018, 08:23:54 PM
It depends how they plan to make decisions albionfan. The club has lacked a clear structure ever since Ashworth left, with several football directors coming in with fancy titles but varying degrees of power. In the majority of Hammond's time here, Pulis signed the players he wanted and ignored Hammond from near enough all reports.

The owners have so far in 2 years displayed little evidence to convince that they are anywhere near nailing down a structure, with the latest move being to hire a 64 year old bloke who has had 1 concrete job in the last 17 years and made a pigs ear of it. His remit is apparantly to help over the summer and to find us a new technical director, although why he would want to find a replacement for himself remains to be seen and seeing as Lai eventually chose to forgoe the "attacking football" he briefed about by then going for Moore whi's success was based organisation rather than flair.

It just looks and feels messy.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on June 06, 2018, 08:31:44 PM
I acknowledge and take on board your points, but I do hope your assessment is wide of the mark for all our sakes and yours as well I suspect
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on June 06, 2018, 08:35:41 PM
This story seems to have gone under the radar but it has alarmed me a bit. If our transfer policy is going to be based on Big Dave's phone book then I feel we really have gone back on everything that made us a success back 8 years ago.

Clubs all over the world understand the importance of good scouting now including more and more English clubs. They hire directors of football and top scouts and look all over the world for players. Big Dave will no doubt know a lot of people having played at the top level for a fair few years, however how many of his contacts will honestly know about the next big thing in the Serbian or Romanian leagues?

Good scouting could allow us to find the next Robert Lewandowski or Luca Modric (both of whom we nearly signed when theu were in their native countries). I don't want us to just look at players in the British leagues who are over priced and often limited.

I really want to look forward to the new season as it is a chance for us to start winning games again after a few tough seasons post Dan Ashworth, but there are so many alarm bells ringing for me that i'm struggling. The club needs to go back to it's basics, instead of the current situation where it is unclear who does what and how decisions are made (other than on a whim like Lai seems to do). We will only have parachute payments for a limited time. Use them wisely.

To be honest, so am I.

After Mark Jenkins' "No stone unturned" speech, I thought we'd be well ahead of the game this summer, but all I'm hearing is platitudes & soundbites.
As things stand, just can't see us competing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on June 06, 2018, 08:57:59 PM
nearly 3 weeks since Moore was appointed manager permanently, it appeared that there would be a lot of activity this summer and the assistant role is one i thought we would have filled by now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on June 06, 2018, 09:50:04 PM
Why is Dave on holiday?
I would have thought he should be on the case right now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 06, 2018, 09:50:33 PM
Why is Dave on holiday?
I would have thought he should be on the case right now.


When should he go?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on June 06, 2018, 09:52:19 PM
Why is Dave on holiday?
I would have thought he should be on the case right now.

It's not only him on holiday but pretty much the majority of European football.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Chipperfan on June 06, 2018, 10:41:19 PM

When should he go?

We don’t want him on holiday. We want him here, now, doing things, anythings as long as it gives the impression of movement. Making deals, appointing people, any people. We want activity, any activity, just do something Darren.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on June 06, 2018, 10:49:26 PM
Remember the old days, when factories and businesses used to close, at the same time, for two week summer holidays? It’s a bit like that for football at this moment. Then they open for business until the same time next year. I’m sure some poor sods still do stuff in the background, but it won’t amount to much.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on June 06, 2018, 11:09:58 PM
We don’t want him on holiday. We want him here, now, doing things, anythings as long as it gives the impression of movement. Making deals, appointing people, any people. We want activity, any activity, just do something Darren.

Nothing much is going to happen this side of the world cup.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on June 06, 2018, 11:29:17 PM
Nothing much is going to happen this side of the world cup.
The World Cup finishes on July 15th, by which time there will be 3.5 weeks before the transfer window closes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Chipperfan on June 07, 2018, 12:32:43 AM
Nothing much is going to happen this side of the world cup.

Sorry, I forgot to add the tongue in cheek emoji to my post.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on June 07, 2018, 06:27:02 AM
The World Cup finishes on July 15th, by which time there will be 3.5 weeks before the transfer window closes.

Loads of time to get the freebies and over 30's that nobody else wants.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on June 07, 2018, 08:15:24 AM
Sorry, I forgot to add the tongue in cheek emoji to my post.

Haha fair play; as for July 15th not giving us enough time to do any business, we never start til then anyway.

I do feel Jenkins' speech was hot air. We'll never change.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on June 07, 2018, 11:09:02 AM
I would imagine a lot of his holiday time will be spent on the phone and laptop but we won't see anything concrete until he's back and that, for me, is a good thing. If we started employing assistants or buying players in his absence then it would just look like he wasn't in control.
I honestly think we will see a flurry of activity from next week onwards.

I really think a lot of people are underestimating Moore. Just because he's a nice bloke, doesn't make him weak. He's an intelligent, passionate and committed guy who will not be bullied, pretty much the same as he was as a player. How the fact that these characteristics have made him many friends within the game can be construed as negative is beyond me. I'm sure the likes of Pulis and Pardew had people who wouldn't even pick up the phone if their number popped up, whereas Darren will find many more open doors. I agree, we can't restrict our scouting but, who cares if we have a team full of British players? As long as they play as a team, with a bit of style, I would be more than happy.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: victor mature on June 07, 2018, 12:24:08 PM
I have a feeling we won't spend a penny until we sell and we won't spend a penny more than what funds are generated through sales. We can't end up like Villa.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on June 07, 2018, 02:55:57 PM
I have a feeling we won't spend a penny until we sell and we won't spend a penny more than what funds are generated through sales. We can't end up like Villa.
I assume there won't be any actual money changing hands until July 1st when the window officially opens but deals in and out can and should be progressed in the meantime. I think you're right that we'll be doing things very carefully and Mr Jenkins will be studying the goings on at Villa with interest.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on June 07, 2018, 04:23:35 PM
It's not a negative setee that Moore has friends in the game. My concern is more about how it reads on paper with the limited transcript of the interview. Moore talks about his years in the game meaning he has built up contacts around the country who he can speak to assisting with the identification of players.

This approach is the one we used years ago when we used to yo yo and what we seemed to revert to under Pulis. It goes back to the old early 2000's era of signing players who do well at a major tournament because that is where clubs notice them.

It was only 5 or 6 years ago when Ashworth and co were still here that we would hear lots about players being scouted for 2 years, transfer departments recording hours and hours of games from across the world to identify the next player of interest and us finding bargains such as free transfer Claudio Yacob, Yousouff Mulumbu, Peter Odemwingie and Craig Dawson. That was the right way to do it, as there are pkayers currently at clubs in smaller European leagues, available for less than 4 million who will one day end up playing for Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich and Man City. I want our scouting to identify these players - not just the ones blokes working in lower league English scouting feel are handy.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on June 07, 2018, 04:41:45 PM
It's not a negative setee that Moore has friends in the game. My concern is more about how it reads on paper with the limited transcript of the interview. Moore talks about his years in the game meaning he has built up contacts around the country who he can speak to assisting with the identification of players.

This approach is the one we used years ago when we used to yo yo and what we seemed to revert to under Pulis. It goes back to the old early 2000's era of signing players who do well at a major tournament because that is where clubs notice them.

It was only 5 or 6 years ago when Ashworth and co were still here that we would hear lots about players being scouted for 2 years, transfer departments recording hours and hours of games from across the world to identify the next player of interest and us finding bargains such as free transfer Claudio Yacob, Yousouff Mulumbu, Peter Odemwingie and Craig Dawson. That was the right way to do it, as there are pkayers currently at clubs in smaller European leagues, available for less than 4 million who will one day end up playing for Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich and Man City. I want our scouting to identify these players - not just the ones blokes working in lower league English scouting feel are handy.
It would be great if we could get back to finding players who want to make their reputation with us, like Koren, Mulumbu, Yacob instead of Barry, Fletcher, Krychowiak who were all already jaded when they got here.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on June 08, 2018, 12:35:27 AM
I have a feeling we won't spend a penny until we sell and we won't spend a penny more than what funds are generated through sales. We can't end up like Villa.

Let's please not use this as an excuse to sell players and not buy - we can definitely afford not to do that. Be very unfair on Darren if we were to go down that route.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on June 08, 2018, 09:07:11 AM
Let's please not use this as an excuse to sell players and not buy - we can definitely afford not to do that. Be very unfair on Darren if we were to go down that route.
Jenkins has already said there is a substantial budget and we don't have to sell. No reason to believe otherwise.
The only reason we haven't seen any business is because DM is on holiday, as are most of players. I predict, and I stand to be shot down, that by the time the window closes, we will be among the top spenders in the division.
We were hamstrung by FFP in the Prem but, the flex down in wages along with the exodus of some of the top earners, should mean we can spend, provided we keep the wage bill proportionate. Or have I got that wrong?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on June 08, 2018, 09:22:53 AM
Jenkins has already said there is a substantial budget and we don't have to sell. No reason to believe otherwise.
The only reason we haven't seen any business is because DM is on holiday, as are most of players. I predict, and I stand to be shot down, that by the time the window closes, we will be among the top spenders in the division.
We were hamstrung by FFP in the Prem but, the flex down in wages along with the exodus of some of the top earners, should mean we can spend, provided we keep the wage bill proportionate. Or have I got that wrong?

That's pretty much my understanding of it too. It is the wages that were the issue not the money for transfers, at least with Krychowiak, Sturridge and Evans gone that's about £300K saved in wages already.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on June 08, 2018, 09:34:23 AM
Jenkins has already said there is a substantial budget and we don't have to sell. No reason to believe otherwise.
The only reason we haven't seen any business is because DM is on holiday, as are most of players. I predict, and I stand to be shot down, that by the time the window closes, we will be among the top spenders in the division.
We were hamstrung by FFP in the Prem but, the flex down in wages along with the exodus of some of the top earners, should mean we can spend, provided we keep the wage bill proportionate. Or have I got that wrong?

In addition, the players we are going to be in the market for now are not going to be the sort of players who are playing at the World Cup in any event so there is no mad rush because of it being a disjointed summer.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on June 08, 2018, 10:33:11 AM
In addition, the players we are going to be in the market for now are not going to be the sort of players who are playing at the World Cup in any event so there is no mad rush because of it being a disjointed summer.

There are plenty of countries at the World Cup that could have players we may look at e.g. Portugal, Peru, Austria, Switzerland, Colombia, Russia, Sweden, Uruguay, Morrocco, Nigeria,Tunisia etc.Even squad players from some of the more fancied countries. Maybe we could unearth the kind of gem we used to?

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on June 08, 2018, 01:44:05 PM
I assume there won't be any actual money changing hands until July 1st when the window officially opens but deals in and out can and should be progressed in the meantime. I think you're right that we'll be doing things very carefully and Mr Jenkins will be studying the goings on at Villa with interest.

No, the window actually opened on May 17th. We can buy and sell now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on June 08, 2018, 01:54:55 PM
No, the window actually opened on May 17th. We can buy and sell now.

Ah yes, but the fresh Bosman free transfer targets don't become available until July 1st......  :-X .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on June 08, 2018, 01:58:24 PM
Ah yes, but the fresh Bosman free transfer targets don't become available until July 1st......  :-X .

Not true. We can negotiate with any player whose contract expires at the end of this month now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on June 09, 2018, 06:22:46 PM
Being linked with Bobby Reid and Romaine Sawyers got me thinking. Get these types of lads in a room with Darren Moore and I’m sure he’d be able to convince any one of them to sign for us. He’s that type of personality. Could be a big asset for transfers.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 21, 2018, 10:31:40 AM
my only concern, does he have pulling power
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on June 21, 2018, 11:05:10 AM
my only concern, does he have pulling power
I think he'll have as much as anyone else in the Championship...maybe excepting Frank Lampard but it doesn't sound as though Derby will have much money to throw at things anyway. I read somewhere that  Bobby Reid was texting DM during the run of results at the end of last season, both Jamaican decent, not sure if any other connection. It sounds like the clubs are 2m - 3m apart in the fee for Reid which sounds familiar, so as usual it's likely to be valuations holding things up more than us struggling to get players to move to us.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on June 21, 2018, 11:10:55 AM
I actually think he will have great pulling power. I think his attitude will win over a lot of potential signings when they meet him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on June 21, 2018, 11:13:50 AM
my only concern, does he have pulling power
The club will have the pulling power mate. Favourites to go up, higher end wages etc.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on June 21, 2018, 12:01:13 PM
The clubs status in this league will attract the player, big saves personality will convince them to sign.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on June 21, 2018, 12:14:38 PM
The clubs status in this league will attract the player, big saves personality will convince them to sign.
Is that Foster you're talking about?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on June 27, 2018, 10:24:08 PM
Darren has to pull off the "miracle of miracle! if we are to finish the coming season still in the Championship.
He has the most difficult job to do than any other manager that i can remember.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on June 27, 2018, 10:53:57 PM
It will end in tears. Darren is not experienced enough to deal with the present situation, and no-one with the necessary experience is going to come as Darrens assistant.Except maybe one,.........SGM, but under Jenkins no chance. The club appears to be in turmoil, and has no infrastructure. I think we can write of any hope of a speedy return to the Premier League.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on June 27, 2018, 11:20:10 PM
Darren has to pull off the "miracle of miracle! if we are to finish the coming season still in the Championship.
He has the most difficult job to do than any other manager that i can remember.

Given our budget is in top 3 in the league there is no reason why a competent management team should not be building a squad to challenge in the top 3. That's par. He has already made big mistakes releasing Yacob & G-mac. Two soldiers who would have been invaluable in a 46 game season and respected by the rest of the squad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on June 28, 2018, 07:36:46 AM
Albion hero without doubt but i do worry its going to end in tears
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on June 28, 2018, 07:46:04 AM
Albion hero without doubt but i do worry its going to end in tears
I don't care if it takes a few years of struggle to get the club stable again with players proud to wear our famous shirt. Moore will never be a failure in my eyes no matter how things pan out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on June 28, 2018, 07:59:17 AM
Looks like new we not me culture isn't spreading to the players anyway.

Get rid out anyone who doesnt want to be here and give Darren Moore our 100% backing to build a team full of players that he wants and embodies his attitude.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on June 28, 2018, 08:30:51 AM
Appoint Darren Moore, they said. He'll unite the club, they said  :-X
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: don1thedon on June 28, 2018, 08:38:16 AM
It doesn't look like Darren is getting much support from the players or those above him in what we all know is going to be a really tough job this season. Suspect it may be a rough ride & he's going to need all the support he can get from us, I just hope supporters stay strong & continue to believe in him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: DaveWBA on June 28, 2018, 08:39:23 AM
Appoint Darren Moore, they said. He'll unite the club, they said  :-X

Sold a few season tickets though hasn't it?

Cynically I wonder whether he's just being made another scapegoat. They knew there was to be little investment and they knew players want to leave. It's easy to pin the blame on a rookie manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mr Cynical on June 28, 2018, 09:41:23 AM
I think people assigning this problem to DM are mistaken.  He'll have been allocated a wage budget and told that he can get much cheaper peripheral players than Yacob, McAuley and Myhill.  (Jenkins would have perceived that Field, Fitzwater and Palmer would be their direct low cost replacements.) Jenkins won't have any idea of how the group works and it's mentality, and won't care until something like this kicks up.

My guess would be that the Foster and Dawson issue is a consequence of other clubs talking to Terraneo about their availability.  One of the articles I read about Terraneo's side-lining said that he was overpricing our players and was intransigent regarding the pricing.  This would have got back to the agents and players and caused their reaction.  They refuse to travel on Monday and Terraneo is sidelined on Monday/Tuesday.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on June 28, 2018, 09:44:34 AM
Sold a few season tickets though hasn't it?

Cynically I wonder whether he's just being made another scapegoat. They knew there was to be little investment and they knew players want to leave. It's easy to pin the blame on a rookie manager.

I don't think that's the case, but I do think there's been a change of plan, & I wonder if we're being readied for a sale.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: DaveWBA on June 28, 2018, 11:16:06 AM
I don't think that's the case, but I do think there's been a change of plan, & I wonder if we're being readied for a sale.

Depends how much of a loss Lai is willing to take. You would imagine he would want us back in the PL as soon as possible. We're only of any use to him in the PL, with the exposure and revenue that comes with it. As Championship also-rans he's looking at a massive loss.

The change of plan probably came shortly after the players in question realised their wages had halved.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on June 28, 2018, 01:32:58 PM
The change of plan probably came shortly after the players in question realised their wages had halved.
It should hardly have been a surprise to them - it would always have been in their contracts.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on July 07, 2018, 09:18:56 AM
Has anyone else noticed the similarities between Darren’s culture and philosophy (#wenotme) and that of Gareth Southgate with the England team?

IMO, it is the way forward when dealing with and motivating multi-millionaires
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on July 07, 2018, 09:42:18 AM
Has anyone else noticed the similarities between Darren’s culture and philosophy (#wenotme) and that of Gareth Southgate with the England team?

IMO, it is the way forward when dealing with and motivating multi-millionaires

The only difference being that Southgates seems to be working
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: sammyg on July 07, 2018, 09:43:11 AM
I would say with Darren’s 6 games in the prem it definitely was working
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Blowee on July 07, 2018, 10:00:16 AM
Has anyone else noticed the similarities between Darren’s culture and philosophy (#wenotme) and that of Gareth Southgate with the England team?

IMO, it is the way forward when dealing with and motivating multi-millionaires
By the end of this transfer window I doubt there will be many multi-millionaires for Big Dave to have to cope with. It looks increasingly like we'll have a team of 11 experienced players and a squad made up largely of academy graduates.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Bigrob80 on July 07, 2018, 10:03:49 AM
The only difference being that Southgates seems to be working

Sure is working and don’t forget he has moved all the big egos out in the qualifying stages and gone with young blood!
This philosophy has been implemented for a while now and is a good benchmark for DM to move towards!
I personally feel if implemented correctly could do is wonders.
Only time will tell.
Boing Boing
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on July 07, 2018, 11:33:19 AM
Darrens job is getting harder by the day there's just so many positions that need filling with a big possibility of many more to fill before the window closes. Has it stands i'm worried he hasn't been thrown to the wolves.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on July 07, 2018, 12:47:16 PM
The only difference being that Southgates seems to be working
Difference being that Southgate has vastly more tactical knowledge and intelligence.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on July 07, 2018, 01:24:47 PM
Darrens job is getting harder by the day there's just so many positions that need filling with a big possibility of many more to fill before the window closes. Has it stands i'm worried he hasn't been thrown to the wolves.
I wonder whether having seen what the clique did to Pulis and Pardew he is quite happy to see them diluted/move on?  I wouldn't put Brunt in that category of troublemaker either, he is the closest thing to a "stalwart" we have had for years.  Any gossip from close to the club about whether instant promotion is required to avoid the sack, or is he going to be given a couple of seasons with  a mix including youngsters as long as we don't implode before Xmas?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Chipperfan on July 07, 2018, 06:55:55 PM
Difference being that Southgate has vastly more tactical knowledge and intelligence.

That’s really quite harsh. Don’t forget that Southgate managed Boro to relegation. He has more experience that Darren for sure, but you can’t just dismiss Darren without him having more time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mr Cynical on July 09, 2018, 10:24:52 AM
What's Southgate's transfer budget? 

I really hope Darren Moore is given a chance.  At the moment the squad (that is going to be) available makes a positive outcome unlikely.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on July 09, 2018, 10:28:39 AM
Difference being that Southgate has vastly more tactical knowledge and intelligence.
and you base that on what ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on July 11, 2018, 01:06:38 AM
I saw my mate again tonight who has given me some ITK information lately, here is a few bits he said tonight (Tuesday) as he is seeing the Albion fella on a weekly basis.

Foster left for playing and money reasons, and not training was nothing to do with personal stuff, he just didnt want to risk getting injured and wasnt happy with the club.

Apparently he wanted to move as soon as it was confirmed we were down, however he wanted somewhere where he could commute daily and also where he was number 1 which ruled out the likes of Man United and Liverpool who had expressed interest in going as a backup.

He felt he had a couple of years playing left in him top flight but would of stayed at Albion rather than go and be a number 2 somewhere else, however Albion said they were looking to sign a new keeper and he could go once they had one in, apparently that rubbed Foster up the wrong way (along with he didnt like his mates being released) as he wanted the reassurance that if no club came in for him to be the number 1, he could stay at the Albion, The club were having none of it and needed to plan forward (and rightly so in my book)

By all accounts he is also on a lot more money at Watford than he has ever been at Albion and a quite a few of the players were quite shocked he made those comments about wanting to stay, etc as they knew he was looking at moving on.

Also Big Dave has had a major cull of backroom staff over the last couple of weeks, a lot of analysts, sports science people, etc have gone, apparently although he felt they were good at their jobs, over the last few years we have taken on more and more in these roles and he felt that we were heavily over stocked and they wasnt needed and he could use the budget elsewhere.

Dawson had indicated he was happy to stay but has been got at and knows he can earn a lot more money elsewhere and has had a change of heart, i didnt get chance to ask about his portugal no show.

Also Big Dave spoke with Chadli before the world cup and got the impression Chadli wasnt looked to kick up a fuss and seemed happy to stay, apparently Big Dave regarded this as a major coup but with the world cup Chadli has had he now accepts he will move on.

Nothing to do with budget stuff but Big Dave really wants more of the youngsters involved in the first team and is putting a big emphasis on that rather than wanting to sign a whole new squad, it seems if he could keep most of the squad as it is right now, with a couple of additions to replace Dawson and McClean he would be more than happy.

However the problem lies with the likes of Chadli, Livermore, Phillips, Rodriguez, Rondon, Hegazi, if they go they will be replaced but if none of those go then we will probably only be signing a couple more players to replace Dawson and McClean.

Again as per previous not that much revolutionary info and it could all be rubbish but what been told so far seems to of happened so assume its pretty on the ball.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on July 11, 2018, 07:40:30 AM
All seems entirely plausible to me, especially the replacement when necessary piece, rather than overstocking and then people don’t move and we have a huge staff and wage bill.
A bit surprised about the back room staff but let’s hope Darren knows better than I do what’s needed (shocked if he doesn’t)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on July 11, 2018, 08:10:22 AM
All seems entirely plausible to me, especially the replacement when necessary piece, rather than overstocking and then people don’t move and we have a huge staff and wage bill.
A bit surprised about the back room staff but let’s hope Darren knows better than I do what’s needed (shocked if he doesn’t)

Agreed, but I can't help thinking the strategy was "advised" from above rather than original thinking from DM.
I think if I was a rookie HC with a track record of 6 games, I'd want all the help I could get.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on July 11, 2018, 08:39:52 AM
All seems entirely plausible to me, especially the replacement when necessary piece, rather than overstocking and then people don’t move and we have a huge staff and wage bill.
A bit surprised about the back room staff but let’s hope Darren knows better than I do what’s needed (shocked if he doesn’t)

Agreed  the squad we have is not a bad squad and is capable of getting us promoted again. If Moore had more time with his run of form at the end of the season that squad would of kept us up. Clear out the ego's get some youth in and we could have a great season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on July 11, 2018, 10:10:47 AM
Agreed, but I can't help thinking the strategy was "advised" from above rather than original thinking from DM.
I think if I was a rookie HC with a track record of 6 games, I'd want all the help I could get.
High earners leaving , others to go most likely, a few players in , young players to be used , cuts behind the scenes.....call me cynical but it points towards Jenkins rather than Moore.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on July 11, 2018, 10:22:58 AM
High earners leaving , others to go most likely, a few players in , young players to be used , cuts behind the scenes.....call me cynical but it points towards Jenkins rather than Moore.

Don't think you'r being cynical at all. I've been there, & when you're a rookie, you don't have the experience to fall back on, to put up a counter argument.

I'm not sure a no-risk financial strategy, is going to give us the quick return to the Premier League we were promised.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on July 11, 2018, 10:39:17 AM
Don't think you'r being cynical at all. I've been there, & when you're a rookie, you don't have the experience to fall back on, to put up a counter argument.

I'm not sure a no-risk financial strategy, is going to give us the quick return to the Premier League we were promised.
I just hope Moore gets what he wants , even more reason for a older assistant to come in with him.
I'll keep my powder dry just yet but 5m plus on a young keeper and cheap tickets won't be enough for me.
Overall I think Moore's job has got harder before a ball is kicked.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on July 11, 2018, 10:40:36 AM
Don't think you'r being cynical at all. I've been there, & when you're a rookie, you don't have the experience to fall back on, to put up a counter argument.

I'm not sure a no-risk financial strategy, is going to give us the quick return to the Premier League we were promised.


Would that be so bad? A return to a league we can't compete in where success in finishing forth from bottom.

That's not competition to me, that's dull and boring watching your team getting beat almost every week.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on July 11, 2018, 10:47:42 AM

Would that be so bad? A return to a league we can't compete in where success in finishing forth from bottom.

That's not competition to me, that's dull and boring watching your team getting beat almost every week.
Granted the top 6 can be painful to play and watch against but we got sloppy against the rest of the teams .
As much as being pasted by City and co was boring I enjoyed beating the Sunderland's , Watford's , West Ham's and co . We never had the cup run we should have but our time at the top table wasn't always bad.
Staying where we are now (if it doesn't get worse ) will only lead to the club going backwards in my view.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on July 11, 2018, 10:55:15 AM
Granted the top 6 can be painful to play and watch against but we got sloppy against the rest of the teams .
As much as being pasted by City and co was boring I enjoyed beating the Sunderland's , Watford's , West Ham's and co . We never had the cup run we should have but our time at the top table wasn't always bad.
Staying where we are now (if it doesn't get worse ) will only lead to the club going backwards in my view.


Fair enough. I guess it depends on your outlook. I'd love us to be what we once were (more than anything) but realistically we can't compete so I'd rather us try and play football and entertain and win more games than we lose. I'm sort of comfortable with the reality now, tired of swimming against a relentless tide of lack of drive, lack of foresight and lack of ambition.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on July 11, 2018, 11:43:05 AM

Would that be so bad? A return to a league we can't compete in where success in finishing forth from bottom.

That's not competition to me, that's dull and boring watching your team getting beat almost every week.

The point is, we were promised by Jenkins, (I'm assuming acting as a voice for GL) that we would "leave no stone unturned" in a bid to get an immediate return to the Premier League.
Personally, I'm not seeing that.

Also personally, I will miss not seeing Premier League football next season, & as others have said, until last season's debacle, we were competing quite well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on July 11, 2018, 12:27:38 PM
Jenkins was brought back for one thing and that was to get finance's of club in order, I would be very surprised if any players with release clauses or are valuable assets will be at club for start of season. Rondon, Rodriguez, Chadli, Dawson, Hegazi Mcclean and Gibbs will in my opinion not play a competitive game again for the Albion, freebies, loans and minimum outlay transfers with low wages will be the norm
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on July 11, 2018, 03:09:31 PM
Jenkins was brought back for one thing and that was to get finance's of club in order, I would be very surprised if any players with release clauses or are valuable assets will be at club for start of season. Rondon, Rodriguez, Chadli, Dawson, Hegazi Mcclean and Gibbs will in my opinion not play a competitive game again for the Albion, freebies, loans and minimum outlay transfers with low wages will be the norm

Can't disagree (although the Johnstone signing was more encouraging) and you can hardly blame Darren Moore for that. I think the reality for most of us is realizing the transfer pool we are now fishing from isn't that great and it will be taking a risk on unproven players with potential or good championship players. Quality premier league players are not going to move to the championship.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on July 11, 2018, 03:54:28 PM
Can't disagree (although the Johnstone signing was more encouraging) and you can hardly blame Darren Moore for that. I think the reality for most of us is realizing the transfer pool we are now fishing from isn't that great and it will be taking a risk on unproven players with potential or good championship players. Quality premier league players are not going to move to the championship.
not blaming Darren at all but those who are involved in player recruitment, might as well have kept the three players we left go if we are going to replace with similar aged journeymen. And with regards to identifying new recruits do they have to have played for youth team?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on July 11, 2018, 06:46:05 PM
west-brom-take-experienced-trio-on-training-camp-as-moore-drops-hint

https://www.footballtransfertavern.com/premier-league/west-bromwich-albion/west-brom-take-experienced-trio-on-training-camp-as-moore-drops-hint/

not a fan of this trio at all.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on July 11, 2018, 07:00:46 PM
west-brom-take-experienced-trio-on-training-camp-as-moore-drops-hint

https://www.footballtransfertavern.com/premier-league/west-bromwich-albion/west-brom-take-experienced-trio-on-training-camp-as-moore-drops-hint/

not a fan of this trio at all.

I hope DM isn’t another “work ard and do a job” type coach at the expense of genuine ability. We’ve had enough of those type of coaches.

He said he had an extensive list of contacts so not sure where it is.

We need a new young squad and he was supposed to be spearheading a major transition. Hope for his sake we hit the ground running. He needs to be ready to take the flack if we don’t.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on July 11, 2018, 07:19:18 PM
west-brom-take-experienced-trio-on-training-camp-as-moore-drops-hint

https://www.footballtransfertavern.com/premier-league/west-bromwich-albion/west-brom-take-experienced-trio-on-training-camp-as-moore-drops-hint/

not a fan of this trio at all.

'Despite their advancing years'

Says it all really. Cheap and cheerful options who no-one else wants.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: NathWBA on July 11, 2018, 08:21:06 PM
How many times doesn’t it need to be said they are only training with us to help them gain fitness to find another club, we aren’t interested in them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on July 11, 2018, 08:29:38 PM
How many times doesn’t it need to be said they are only training with us to help them gain fitness to find another club, we aren’t interested in them.
Read Matt Wilsons latest piece mate , quote from Moore on the players . Its more than just training to get fit.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: NathWBA on July 11, 2018, 09:09:28 PM
Read Matt Wilsons latest piece mate , quote from Moore on the players . Its more than just training to get fit.
id be amazed if any of them sign for us and it’s not just Moore helping them out and trying to ignite some interest in them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 11, 2018, 10:00:46 PM
not blaming Darren at all but those who are involved in player recruitment, might as well have kept the three players we left go if we are going to replace with similar aged journeymen.
Who's left at the club who is involved with identifying targets?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 11, 2018, 10:05:37 PM
Who's left at the club who is involved with identifying targets?
Inspector Clouseau with a magnifying glurss?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on July 11, 2018, 10:47:15 PM
Inspector Clouseau with a magnifying glurss?

Darren Moore spent his career playing in the second division and below so he’s up to speed on championship journeymen. I don’t trust him - already incompetent enough to release Yacob for god sake who will cost millions to replace. Whole club is as professional as an episode of dream team.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 11, 2018, 10:50:22 PM

Darren Moore spent his career playing in the second division and below so he’s up to speed on championship journeymen. I don’t trust him - already incompetent enough to release Yacob for god sake who will cost millions to replace. Whole club is as professional as an episode of dream team.
I agree on this, is/was so obviously too good to let go.
Could have used him as the centre pin to build a team around.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on July 11, 2018, 10:51:54 PM
id be amazed if any of them sign for us and it’s not just Moore helping them out and trying to ignite some interest in them.

It’s all very noble of us but why not send them to any of our local rivals like walsall or Coventry if they want to get fit.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: NathWBA on July 11, 2018, 10:54:50 PM
It’s all very noble of us but why not send them to any of our local rivals like walsall or Coventry if they want to get fit.
I’d imagine because we have better facilities and it’s costing us nothing to have them adding numbers to the training camps
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on July 11, 2018, 11:05:12 PM
I’d imagine because we have better facilities and it’s costing us nothing to have them adding numbers to the training camps
doesn't sound right, a team that's just dropped out the premiership having to rely on non contracted players to make the numbers up for training, we'll be using jumpers as goalposts next.😕
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: telford baggie on July 12, 2018, 08:01:36 AM
when relegated there will always be cut backs, just maybe Darren Moore wants to go down the route of playing kids and its his call, it will be his call to take old men on tour to scotland, all new signings will be his call..easy to blame jenkins as big dave is a legend but when the kids arent good enough and we sign players like roofe and sawyers are probably struggling then it will all be down to Darren Moore. It will be the biggest mistake in our history but fans will back him into league1..enjoy
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: barnestormer on July 12, 2018, 10:29:18 AM
when relegated there will always be cut backs, just maybe Darren Moore wants to go down the route of playing kids and its his call, it will be his call to take old men on tour to scotland, all new signings will be his call..easy to blame jenkins as big dave is a legend but when the kids arent good enough and we sign players like roofe and sawyers are probably struggling then it will all be down to Darren Moore. It will be the biggest mistake in our history but fans will back him into league1..enjoy
Not a million miles from the truth and why I believe Darren Moore will be relieved of the responsibility well before bonfire night
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: DaveWBA on July 12, 2018, 11:25:35 AM
when relegated there will always be cut backs, just maybe Darren Moore wants to go down the route of playing kids and its his call, it will be his call to take old men on tour to scotland, all new signings will be his call..easy to blame jenkins as big dave is a legend but when the kids arent good enough and we sign players like roofe and sawyers are probably struggling then it will all be down to Darren Moore. It will be the biggest mistake in our history but fans will back him into league1..enjoy

One quote about taking players on a training camp and all of a sudden we're relegation candidates? Superb.

The club obviously did take these players on to help them with their fitness, if they've shown the fit in well to the group and potentially have something to add Darren Moore would be foolish to come out in the press and say otherwise, there's no harm in looking at the whilst they're training with us.

How about this quote...

Quote
“We have offers in for players at the moment,” he said. “Now it’s just trying to agree fees with the clubs we are trying to get them from from and obviously personal terms.

“Hopefully we can get them over the line and see one or two new faces coming to the club.”
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on July 12, 2018, 12:52:57 PM
Don't really understand the anti Darren Moore sentiments thus far, nor the fears regarding relegation.

Pre season........
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on July 12, 2018, 02:28:53 PM
Not sure DM has had complete control over Yacob and McAuley leaving. They themselves could have decided not to sign another contract.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: leeiswba on July 12, 2018, 02:34:14 PM
Don't really understand the anti Darren Moore sentiments thus far, nor the fears regarding relegation.

Pre season........

To be fair every season we were in the premierleague fans in June/July were tipping us to go down. Last season was the only one where I can remember people being positive about the squad we had an look what happened  ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on July 12, 2018, 03:09:01 PM
Not sure DM has had complete control over Yacob and McAuley leaving. They themselves could have decided not to sign another contract.

McAuley actually said in an interview that he didn't know what was happening as no one had contacted him to discuss his contract situation.
I got the impression that no contract had been offered
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Chipperfan on July 12, 2018, 07:29:58 PM
I’m pretty excited for next season. It’s time we got back to producing great teams from the youth system.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Blowee on July 12, 2018, 09:09:09 PM
It's also good to see the players actually training rather than taking taxis or out clubbing!


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on July 12, 2018, 09:54:13 PM
How about this quote...

"We have offers in for players at the moment,” he said. “Now it’s just trying to agree fees with the clubs we are trying to get them from from and obviously personal terms. Hopefully we can get them over the line and see one or two new faces coming to the club."
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about the quote, but I think we've had 7 players leave and 1 has come in so far, so what does Darren mean by "see one or two new faces coming to the club"? Is that until more players go or is it the sum total of what we hope to sign? Either way it suggests that we're going to be relying a lot on unproven youngsters whom apart from Leko, have never played at this level.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: DaveWBA on July 13, 2018, 08:40:02 AM
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about the quote, but I think we've had 7 players leave and 1 has come in so far, so what does Darren mean by "see one or two new faces coming to the club"? Is that until more players go or is it the sum total of what we hope to sign? Either way it suggests that we're going to be relying a lot on unproven youngsters whom apart from Leko, have never played at this level.

That we are in the market for players. If posters are able to read one quote and declare us relegation candidates then I thought I'd post that one for a bit of balance.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Nathan on July 13, 2018, 12:25:34 PM
I’m pretty excited for next season. It’s time we got back to producing great teams from the youth system.

Exactly. The kids are only going to prove themselves if they get the chance. If we have a team full of home grown players then our support will be 100% behind them, the atmosphere will be the best it's been for years and I've got a gut feeling that the kids will rise to the occasion. If they know the supporters are totally behind them, which they will be, the youngsters will be able to play without any fear and I think will surpass the levels of ability that they might have previously shown on loan at lower level clubs. We will have an identity back which is all too rare these days and I for one will be delighted with that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on July 13, 2018, 12:32:25 PM
Exactly. The kids are only going to prove themselves if they get the chance. If we have a team full of home grown players then our support will be 100% behind them, the atmosphere will be the best it's been for years and I've got a gut feeling that the kids will rise to the occasion. If they know the supporters are totally behind them, which they will be, the youngsters will be able to play without any fear and I think will surpass the levels of ability that they might have previously shown on loan at lower level clubs. We will have an identity back which is all too rare these days and I for one will be delighted with that.


Agreed. I'd rather see a bunch of kids wanting to prove themselves than energyless,legless has been's or never were's like Barry and Livermore. If either of them start ahead of Sam Field at the start of the season I'm going to be on Big Dave's case right from the start.

I love Big Dave but we have to move forward, this is a new era and he has to embrace it. If he doesn't the love fest he currently enjoys won't last very long.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on July 13, 2018, 03:31:20 PM
Don't really understand the anti Darren Moore sentiments thus far, nor the fears regarding relegation.

Pre season........

Me either. He obviously has what it takes getting a team of perennial losers to look like a quality Prem team in the last 6 matches. I understand people getting frustrated with the lack of movement in the transfer market but if Darren Moore is having a say on transfers, I like what he is doing (Yacob aside but I have a feeling Yacob wanted to go back to Argentina as he has mentioned it several times over the years). Let's just judge him on performances and more importantly results. He's done everything 100% right in my opinion so far.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Chipperfan on July 13, 2018, 04:36:02 PM
Personally feeling relatively optimistic. I actually like the type of players we are being connected with and really am looking forward to seeing youth being part of the team make up.

Being prehistoric I hark back to the days when young players coming into the team was the norm. Lovett, Hartford, Cantello, Robertson, Wilson, Hughes (Lyndon), Merrick, Nisbet and Bennett and many more. Those lads were part of the club, in some cases from the area, it felt so much more like our club back then.

Maybe Darren can recreate just a little of that feeling and belonging. Big name, big money foreigners aren’t always the answer, and to me Albion have lost their way and their identity. I’m looking for that to return.

I like the way he’s going about his job. He’s very impressive and for me absolutely the right bloke for the job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on July 28, 2018, 03:33:07 PM
So far I'm quite impressed with our transfer business this summer. Barnes, Townsend and Bartley all seem to be quite canny signings. It's clear that someone at the club (god knows who) has being paying attention to the talent in the championship and below. If we can get Dwight Gayle or another goalscorer and keep the core together then we have a real chance of starting the season strongly. I was sceptical when Big Dave was given the job but I'm warming to him rapidly. The club have got more right than wrong so far this summer, including sensible ticket prices for once.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on July 28, 2018, 03:52:58 PM
So far I'm quite impressed with our transfer business this summer. Barnes, Townsend and Bartley all seem to be quite canny signings. It's clear that someone at the club (god knows who) has being paying attention to the talent in the championship and below. If we can get Dwight Gayle or another goalscorer and keep the core together then we have a real chance of starting the season strongly. I was sceptical when Big Dave was given the job but I'm warming to him rapidly. The club have got more right than wrong so far this summer, including sensible ticket prices for once.
I agree regarding our signings. Some of our best Premier League deals were signing good, Championship players such as McAuley and Jones - even Keith Andrews on a free was decent for the 2nd half of the season.

There's nothing to snigger about lower-league signings, generally they're much cheaper and can be real bargains compared to Premier League prices.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on July 28, 2018, 03:58:11 PM
I agree regarding our signings. Some of our best Premier League deals were signing good, Championship players such as McAuley and Jones - even Keith Andrews on a free was decent for the 2nd half of the season.

There's nothing to snigger about lower-league signings, generally they're much cheaper and can be real bargains compared to Premier League prices.
...and we’re a step up in their careers.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Black Pearl on July 28, 2018, 05:23:51 PM
I have reserved judgement till now, with our recent transfer activity, the blend of youth and experience, I think we can look with some optimism to the coming season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on July 28, 2018, 06:00:19 PM
Seems to be signing players with better passing than in previous seasons , suspect there will be mixed styles at times especially given the long season.
I already feel a bit for Moore given most of us would have expected other big earners to have left with Evans and decent money being spent to replace them . To me his hands do seem a bit tied at the minute , can only hope these next few weeks don't hit us too hard and the players that are left settle in a team ethic.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: adamw1109 on July 28, 2018, 11:02:49 PM
Last 5 games, scored 15 conceded 6, W4 D1 ..... whens big daves statue getting put up at the hawthorns?!

Quite refreshing to see, even against lower league teams in the most recent past under previous managers we have struggled and looked like we are the lower league team majority of the time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: charlebaggie on July 28, 2018, 11:29:59 PM
Seems to be signing players with better passing than in previous seasons , suspect there will be mixed styles at times especially given the long season.
I already feel a bit for Moore given most of us would have expected other big earners to have left with Evans and decent money being spent to replace them . To me his hands do seem a bit tied at the minute , can only hope these next few weeks don't hit us too hard and the players that are left settle in a team ethic.
.    Why do we always think "His Hands are tied" What evidence have we for this ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hong Kong Phooey on July 29, 2018, 12:57:56 AM
Didn’t want him to get the job as it would potentially tarnish his legendary status as a true Baggie  8)

Can’t fault what he has done though - seems to have galvanised a talented but under performing squad - and restored pride in a difficult situation...

The way he has sidelined/moved on the disgruntled and brought in/given our youth the opportunity is testament that he is his own man - mind you, I wouldn’t argue with him... :-X

#WeNotMe
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BigFrank20 on July 29, 2018, 06:49:58 AM
.    Why do we always think "His Hands are tied" What evidence have we for this ?
I'm sort of with you on this mate, surely the system is either he, Big Dave, gives the club a list of players he'd like and/or the club hand him a list of those they think they could get or their agents have expressed an interest. Then off go the right people in the in the club to see what they can do in negotiations with interested parties, within the wage and cost ranges the club money men have decided we can afford and the sort of contract we are prepared to offer (length, extension terms, buy out clauses etc) It is far too complex a system for one man, in this case a head coach, to be expected to be in sole charge of such complexity so not sure how his hands could be tied? He is a single cog in a big machine where all the cogs need to mesh together smoothly and which can be interrupted in all sorts of ways for all sorts of reasons. Having watched yesterday's excellent showing I'm more than happy for him to be concentrating on form and fitness and styles of play rather than hovering round a phone and computer screen
COYB COBD 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on July 29, 2018, 09:02:57 AM
On the evidence of yesterday I'm feeling happy about the way Big Dave set the team up and wants us to play. It's far different to what we saw last season. If we pass the ball around and look as sharp and incisive as we did in the first half I'll be very happy with that.

I have been worried that Big Dave would want us to set up with men behind the ball as we did against Liverpool and Spurs last season but there was no sign of that. I know the standard of opposition was very different but nevertheless the intent and mentality were spot on from the start.

My biggest concern is defensively. We conceded two goals, one from bad organisation from a set piece, the other when that little guy completely sold Crainie. Added to that Hegazi failed to read a long ball and their centre forward missed a one on one first half.

Having more of the ball means we don't have as much defensive insurance as we would've had previously so defenders are going to have to defend better one on one. I'm not convinced by Crainie. I think if Nyom played yesterday we wouldn't have conceded that first goal.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on July 29, 2018, 09:09:34 AM
.    Why do we always think "His Hands are tied" What evidence have we for this ?
The fact the only decent size fee is for Johnstone , I think its clear there is no excess cash flow to bring players in before letting the big hitters go . I honestly think the club expected more than just Evans to have gone by now hence the season starts next week and we still don't really know who stays and who would still be available come in .
Its really not ideal for Moore , thats my point as in having hands tied.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on July 29, 2018, 09:19:21 AM
For me a lot depends on what happens between now and the closure of the window.  At the moment we are loosing less players than I thought we might, and we have made some judicial signings in replacement which I am quite pleased with.  With Dawson, Phillips and potentially Rondon in our squad we will be a very strong Championship team indeed.  Also one which will be well organised, and where the Manager will know the team well and be able to play to its strengths.  Of the leavers so far , the only one I have regretted is Foster- and even then we seem to have sourced a good replacement.  I would still like us to sell (note not loan) Chadli which would allow us to bring in potentially one further new recruit, but at the start of the season I am quite excited.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on July 29, 2018, 09:52:28 AM
The fact the only decent size fee is for Johnstone , I think its clear there is no excess cash flow to bring players in before letting the big hitters go . I honestly think the club expected more than just Evans to have gone by now hence the season starts next week and we still don't really know who stays and who would still be available come in .
Its really not ideal for Moore , thats my point as in having hands tied.

I'm not sure that it's transfer fees that's the problem as such. Even with flex down, we still have some big earners on the books, so I'd imagine they're juggling the wage budget around to ensure we comply with FFP.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on July 29, 2018, 10:20:37 AM
Hopefully Big Dave has the intent to sign that Belgium league Striker were interested in because if Rondon and J-Rod leave Hal Robson Kanuwill be up front I'm sorry Hal Robson Who
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on July 29, 2018, 10:44:38 AM
I dont know if Big Dave has had his hands tied, we went down, therefore that means cutbacks have to be made (as we seem to try and stick to some of FFP regulation)

We took a massive hit in income when we were relegated, yes the players are on flexdown contracts but those £70k - £80k still become £35k - £40k contracts in the championship which is still huge money for that level.

Until those players go we still have big overheads, yet our income is less than it was, the money we got for Foster and Evans we brought Johnstone with, we also spend £4m on Bartley and £700k (approx) on Townsend and supposedly buying this Luton bloke for £300k so thats £5m spend too.

Whilst we still have high value players on big money i can quite understand the club not going and splashing loads of money, if / when these players start to move, thats when i imagine Big Dave will start to spend decent fees, again just say we got £16m for Rondon, it doesnt mean we have to go and spend £16m on another striker, i would imagine it may be more the £10 - £12m maximum with the excess £4m being used towards the income reduction.

Worth noting we signed Chadli who we spent £13m on and Burke £15m on, thats nearly £30m quid and last season neither of them contributed a thing towards the team, whatever the reasons - Injured, manager didnt rate them, young with potential, etc for a club like Albion to have £30m worth of talent not doing anything (and thats just those two, there are others) is just not feasible.

Its rubbish but we got relegated, there are consequences, Big Dave will of known all about that before he took the job, from what i was told he wanted to keep as many of last seasons squad so whilst they are here he will be happy, and from the sales we have made and the fact we have brought others would suggest so far he is being backed.

If we start selling players and not replacing them then that will be a concern but at the moment having the likes of Dawson, Rondon, JRod we probably have better players in our squad than we would be signing to replace them anyway so not point just buying for the sake of it!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on July 29, 2018, 11:32:32 PM
Anyone know what is the average wages for Championship players and are our lot on more?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on July 30, 2018, 12:34:14 AM
Anyone know what is the average wages for Championship players and are our lot on more?

For the coming season our wage bill will about 50% greater than the average Championship team and anything up to four times that of a team like Rotherham. The bottom line is our top wage is about £30k a week whereas for the rest of the division it will be something in the region of £20k a week. The exceptions to that will be the clubs with parachute payments. Stoke Swansea Hull Norwich Middlesbrough and Villa.

Of those Hull have trimmed their wage bill back dramatically already Norwich and Villa are in the last year of parachute payments so will be under pressure to reduce their wage bills and have done this summer.

Darren will have one of the bigger payrolls in the division and with it the attendant expectations.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie38 on July 30, 2018, 04:55:22 AM
How we do this season under big dave remains to be seen but I'm very happy with the window under him so far. For a good two years or so I've been saying to friends and family we need to clear some of the dead wood and get in younger players who want to play for the Albion. All these players we have signed so far this season arrive with high praise from the clubs fans that they used to play in front of. Never thought I'd get excited over signing a scunthorpe LB and possibly a Luton right back but look over our past signings stretching back 30 plus years. Where you sign them from means absolutely nothing. Roll on next week.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on July 30, 2018, 07:41:56 PM
How we do this season under big dave remains to be seen but I'm very happy with the window under him so far. For a good two years or so I've been saying to friends and family we need to clear some of the dead wood and get in younger players who want to play for the Albion. All these players we have signed so far this season arrive with high praise from the clubs fans that they used to play in front of. Never thought I'd get excited over signing a scunthorpe LB and possibly a Luton right back but look over our past signings stretching back 30 plus years. Where you sign them from means absolutely nothing. Roll on next week.

Exactly, I mean, we could sign someone from somewhere like, Ooh I dunno.... Leyton Orient?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on July 30, 2018, 08:35:39 PM
Exactly, I mean, we could sign someone from somewhere like, Ooh I dunno.... Leyton Orient?

We could do worse...
How about non-league Hayes in Essex?
We did get a player from them once.
Just remind me of his name, I just can't think....C.R. were his initials.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on July 30, 2018, 08:56:07 PM
How we do this season under big dave remains to be seen but I'm very happy with the window under him so far. For a good two years or so I've been saying to friends and family we need to clear some of the dead wood and get in younger players who want to play for the Albion. All these players we have signed so far this season arrive with high praise from the clubs fans that they used to play in front of. Never thought I'd get excited over signing a scunthorpe LB and possibly a Luton right back but look over our past signings stretching back 30 plus years. Where you sign them from means absolutely nothing. Roll on next week.

Exactly how I feel.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Chipperfan on July 30, 2018, 09:18:23 PM
We could do worse...
How about non-league Hayes in Essex?
We did get a player from them once.
Just remind me of his name, I just can't think....C.R. were his initials.
Different world back then. We were excited just by the signing of Cyrille without knowing a bloody thing about him.

Nowadays even football fans feel entitled.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on July 30, 2018, 09:19:07 PM
We could do worse...
How about non-league Hayes in Essex?
We did get a player from them once.
Just remind me of his name, I just can't think....C.R. were his initials.

He was ok. ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on July 30, 2018, 09:20:51 PM
Different world back then. We were excited just by the signing of Cyrille without knowing a bloody thing about him.

Nowadays even football fans feel entitled.

Maybe we need to get the players back in the pub with us at the end of the match. That'd sort it....

 :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on July 30, 2018, 10:18:04 PM
Darren is rabbit in the headlights mk 2, being shafted from behind by management who went for the no risk option.
No assistant manager, no strikers, defenders leaving.
 I fear the worst.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on July 31, 2018, 12:18:23 PM
i think that the fact that Graeme whatsisname is coming shows that Darren has a strong position, the club could quite easily have gone over his head during the long interim period, but no Darren got the man he wanted
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on July 31, 2018, 12:31:59 PM
i think that the fact that Graeme whatsisname is coming shows that Darren has a strong position, the club could quite easily have gone over his head during the long interim period, but no Darren got the man he wanted

Is/has he?

Genuinely not being facetious but I'd no idea it had been officially announced.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on July 31, 2018, 12:33:05 PM
Is/has he?

Genuinely not being facetious but I'd no idea it had been officially announced.

Apparently starts working Thursdaytag and will be on talksport later today ! Just re-read your qu, no not official !
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on July 31, 2018, 12:36:07 PM
Apparently starts working Thursdaytag and will be on talksport later today !

Nice one and cheers, just popped over to the 'other' thread and read this too.

I'm a bit behind breaking events at the mo' as I've been trudging through loads of other peoples used online pre season nappies this morning  ;D .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: letmereadposts on August 01, 2018, 05:22:35 PM
Darren Moore - "I don’t like to say too much about this but I’m changing the culture around here and the first thing we have to do is recruit people with respect and humility for everyone, absolutely everyone, who we come into contact with. Everyone who steps into this place must show these characteristics."

I said it before he was appointed at how quickly Darren had given some identify, I don't think we should underestimate what an achievement that has been.

Irrespective of how this season transpires, I'm feeling excited and (on a basic level) I'm pleased that our club is less of a joke on and off the pitch thanks to Big Dave

Darren Moore = (West Bromwich) Albion Legend.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Cantello on August 01, 2018, 05:42:23 PM
Darren is rabbit in the headlights mk 2, being shafted from behind by management who went for the no risk option.
No assistant manager, no strikers, defenders leaving.
 I fear the worst.

My view is opposite.  Funny world.  Loving the vibes coming out of the club.  It feels like we’ve got our club back.  Keep the faith!  I have a feeling Big Dave is going to do something special....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BigFrank20 on August 01, 2018, 05:50:42 PM
Darren Moore - "I don’t like to say too much about this but I’m changing the culture around here and the first thing we have to do is recruit people with respect and humility for everyone, absolutely everyone, who we come into contact with. Everyone who steps into this place must show these characteristics."
This more or less confirms what many suspected that there was something very 'off' going on last season and my guess would be this references both playing and management level staff
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wbastrollers on August 01, 2018, 06:03:00 PM
Darren is rabbit in the headlights mk 2, being shafted from behind by management who went for the no risk option.
No assistant manager, no strikers, defenders leaving.
 I fear the worst.

The board went for the no option, option. DM made the job his by his results and his approach to the role. As for the no risk option - this is indeed a very risky appointment, one I suspect the board did not want to make, however, they would have looked even more foolish then they already are if they appointed someone else who failed
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on August 01, 2018, 06:08:43 PM
Darren Moore got the job on his results at the end of the seaso. And forced the clubs hands. However since then he has bought in some younger hungry players, FINALLY a very astute assistant and he wants to play attractive football. His we not me mantra is really tapping into our history and getting people excited.

As you said after his results appointing somebody else who came in and hashed I think up people would be asking well what about Darren Moore. So it was a lose lose in that sense. But it could also be argued to be win win as whilst Moore is popular Andrew he seems to be building something nicely many don't expect him to do much. So if he fails it's a never mind whilst if he achieves we will be delighted.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 02, 2018, 12:34:28 AM
What a joy it is to have someone who loves the club at the helm, knowing that it means something to him. It's not just a stepping stone to a bigger job or another stop on the old boys roundabout, it's his club and his love of the fans and his humble driving it.

I was initially worried about his appointment in fear of his lack of experience but now with the perfect right-hand man, I think we've made the right decision in the end. I hope our fans give Big Dave at least a season to get going, he's got a lot to learn and not a lot of time to learn it in, but fingers crossed that Big Dave is our Eddie Howe/Shaun Dyche. I for one will back him to the end. As someone's said previously; Young players, humble attitude, caring for the fans - it feels like OUR club again

Imagine the feeling of having an Albion man leading us back to the Premier League.

Big Dave's barmy army!!


I agree and I was against his appointment initially. What I have seen of the transfer activity and what I saw against Coventry has got me fully onside.

There is the odd consenting voice (there always will be) but generally there is a real feel good factor at the club now and a real positivity hence the likely sell out for Saturdays curtain raiser.

Proper home kit, yellow and green back. Things looking great at the moment. Just get Mozza signed up for Saturday and nothing to moan at.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on August 02, 2018, 01:48:35 AM
Darren's comments about changing the culture around the club is the single most interesting thing he has said since he took over.

To highlight

 "respect and humility for everyone, absolutely everyone, who we come into contact with"

implies that wasn't the case under previous regimes.

That is a fine starting point and while it might preclude signing some of the more egotistical talents in the game it isn't of itself a rounded philosophy. Plainly there is more to it than that and actions speak louder than words so it will be fascinating to witness where Darren is heading with this.

I hope that he is given time and support by the everyone at the club and the fan base to follow through with the work that he has begun. We must not lose our collective nerve when the inevitable set backs happen.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Brummie Road on August 02, 2018, 08:03:52 AM
There's no question that there's been a major transformation around the club since Darren Moore took control of the first team and he deserves massive credit.

While how non Albion fans perceive the club clearly isn't the be all and end all, there's no question that over the last few seasons any empathy from other supporters or the media has totally disappeared and hard to imagine any neutrals were disappointed to see us depart the Premiership, and there was that perception we were just making up the numbers, playing safety first football and really bringing nothing to the party (so to speak).

So wonderful to now have a genuinely respected figurehead at the helm and an opportunity to reinvent ourselves in many respects, on and off the pitch, regardless of our ultimate finishing place this season.

From a personal perspective, a united front off the pitch would, for me, be as much as a bonus as any success we may have on it.

As we all know, the Championship can be a real slog and inevitably we'll end up taking a few hits along the way, and with quite an upheaval in the squad we may not get off to the start we are all hoping for, but I just hope Darren Moore is given plenty of time to make his mark.

We all want the Albion to be successful as possible but I'm more than happy if Darren Moore is given as long as it takes, rather than going down the route of the short term fixes and managerial and coaching merry go round we've witnessed at the Albion over recent times, and at so many other clubs.

COYB!!  8)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 03, 2018, 04:29:42 PM
When asked at today's press conference if he's confident of keeping our best players, Darren said: "I can only speak for now. I’m happy they’re here, I’d like them to stay and continue the way they’re going. I always plan and prepare because they’re in the building and they’re available for selection for tomorrow. When next week comes, we’ll approach it when it comes. At this moment I’m delighted to have them in the building".

Additionally, when asked specifically about Dawson and Rondon, he said: "They’re still at West Brom. The speculation suggests we’ve got decisions to make".

Source: Birmingham Mail (https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/darren-moore-transcript-west-brom-14986091)

It does sound like he's anticipating a departure or two so, if that is the case, let's hope he's got replacements lined up who can be brought in before the window closes. It would be bad for prized assets to leave and be replaced by loan signings.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 03, 2018, 04:34:41 PM
I think at this stage he simply doesn't know. There will be all sorts of stuff going on behind the scenes with clubs / agents etc and there are always rumours abound.

Latest two I've heard are Gibbs agreeing terms with Torino and Burnley cooling their interest in Rodriguez. No idea if there's any substance behind either. Darren will know more than me obviously but I'm guessing even he is waiting and seeing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: colinmax on August 04, 2018, 10:21:44 PM
It is sad but I am glad we lost because it might be to or benefit.If we had fluked a 3 nil win it would have papered over the cracks till the transfer window has closed.
Three questions need answering.

1 why no striker on the subs bench?
2 why play Brunt and Livermore who basically provide no pace,little creativity and little goal threat?
3 very few players are match fit at this stage of the season why did we only make one substitution despite a very hot,tiring remperature and take 75 minutes before even doing this.
This is not just a football matter but a common sense requirement.
We desperately need a pacy,creative goal scoring midfielder and a clinical striker..


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on August 04, 2018, 10:52:01 PM
Absolute tripe from Moore.  He's had all summer to formulate a plan.  If he doesn't learn on the job then he's not going to be here come Autumn.  There really can be no excuses.  Today a large proportion of the fans saw what he couldn't.  We have to be ruthless otherwise the promotion dream is over.  And if that means certain players left out so be it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on August 04, 2018, 10:55:58 PM
It is sad but I am glad we lost because it might be to or benefit.If we had fluked a 3 nil win it would have papered over the cracks till the transfer window has closed.
Three questions need answering.

1 why no striker on the subs bench?
2 why play Brunt and Livermore who basically provide no pace,little creativity and little goal threat?
3 very few players are match fit at this stage of the season why did we only make one substitution despite a very hot,tiring remperature and take 75 minutes before even doing this.
This is not just a football matter but a common sense requirement.
We desperately need a pacy,creative goal scoring midfielder and a clinical striker..


I agree, we need more pace and creativity. But regarding your points:

1) We don't have any other strikers. Rondon is all but off. (As is Dawson apparently.) We literally have Kanu and Rodriguez for strikers.

2) Similar to point 1, we lack choice. However, I would argue that Brunt has, in the past, been a very valuable player with regards set pieces, and I'm sure he will be this season.

3) Totally agree. The subs should all have come around the 65-70 minute mark. For me, Burke should have replaced Kanu, Morrison should have replaced Livermore and Tosin should have replaced Nyom. Barnes looked fit and up for it. He also didn't look too happy at being taken off.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on August 04, 2018, 11:16:01 PM
We need to get some of our bigger assets of the books. If we could sell Livermore it would give us some money and we wouldn't have to suffer him all season. Or if Rondon goes for cash or chadli etc.

All I know is the centre midfield pairing won't work in a 442 we may do ok in 4231. If Rondon is goimg why play both recognised (using term liberally for HRK) strikers Leaving us no option on the bench?

In a game that called for freshening the midfield why not bring on Morrison?

We played 4-2-3-1 all pre season and it seemed to work yet we revert to 442 and it failed spectacularly.

All these points fall to the manager. Unfortunately there are still quiet a few players who don't want to be here and we could do with shipping them out but it's not ad easy as that
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on August 04, 2018, 11:40:07 PM
The long and short of it is there were 3 players stinking the place out on the pitch today and others off it who should be bombed out of the club ASAP . There is a lazy losing  mentality throughout the playing staff and the board of directors have a duty to back the coach who they appointed to  step forward this next week and sort it .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on August 04, 2018, 11:44:12 PM
The long and short of it is there were 3 players stinking the place out on the pitch today and others off it who should be bombed out of the club ASAP . There is a lazy losing  mentality throughout the playing staff and the board of directors have a duty to back the coach who they appointed to  step forward this next week and sort it .
Which three?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggyman68 on August 05, 2018, 12:04:01 AM
Nice man in the wrong job!
Losing against one of the poorest sides in the division points to a long hard season ahead.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionBest on August 05, 2018, 12:38:53 AM
Love the bloke but sounded like a rabbit caught in the headlights in his post match interview. Said that the missing big three were still WBA but never said why they weren't playing whilst the bench looked pathetic ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: royhan on August 05, 2018, 04:16:18 AM
DM comes across as a genuinely nice guy, but I don't share the view that he should have been appointed because he has a deep love for the club. There is too much at stake for sentimentality. What happens between now and the end of the transfer window will have a vital bearing on whether we will sink or swim under DM. We need some quality additions if we are going to lose the likes of Chadli, Dawson and Rondon, but there is no indication yet that we are going to get them. Not only are we shopping in Lidl's but we only seem to be attracting players from the lower divisions. What are we paying our overseas scouts for? The Rondon/Gayle swap deal makes no sense at all to me as Gayle's heart is not on dropping down a division, if press reports are to be believed. It should not be forgotten that Gayle scored fewer goals last season that Rondon.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: colinmax on August 05, 2018, 06:41:22 AM
It was said we didn't have another striker to put on the bench but unless hr was injured I would have picked Kyle Edwards who looked better in the play offs than our selected two.Our best player was a 20 year old and I would like to see a switch to a younger,hungry team.
I am always against swapping players unless we really want the offered player,why should we have a player the other team don,t want?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on August 05, 2018, 08:34:50 AM
There will be more days like yesterday I am sure. Darren is a rookie Head Coach and he made some mistakes but he was also let down by some of his players.

He needs to adapt his ideas and fast. The 4-4-2 did not work and won't with the personnel he has at his disposal and the complete rejig of the squad needed to make it work isn't going to happen in the next few days.

Unless Rondon is being a complete backside behind the scenes for us to reopen the discussions with Newcastle must mean that Darren really wants Gayle because with the release clause expiring we could just rebuff any further advances.

 The window still being open which is good sense that Moore can get a couple of reinforcements in but it is still a distraction for some of our players who are looking for moves. When the dust settles Darren will at least know what he has to work with and the players will either knuckle down or they won't play which won't be doing their career ambitions any good at all. I also feel that Moore is a strong enough character not to hold a grudge and get a player back on board.

This is a hell of a challenge for any Head Coach but even more so for one in his first job. All that said the plain fact is every fan who was on the Moore bandwagon had to know that and for some to be turning after one game is disappointing.

We have to give him time to ring the changes that are needed and if that means we have a stuttering season well that is just the way it is. We absolutely don't need another 6 month Head Coach appointment for any coach to achieve a culture and football shift they need time it won't happen overnight nor will it be plain sailing but the long term gain is worth the short term pain.   


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boot2006 on August 05, 2018, 08:54:38 AM
We're in for a long hard season, that's for sure.

At the moment I don't think we've got the balance in the team right.  We've got no real game changers in the squad.  I like Barnes  but it's too early to make any real judgement on him.  We need two more good strikers, an attacking midfielder, a centre half and a right back if we are to get out of this division.  I can also Myhill being our number one very quickly.

I like Darren Moore a lot, I really hope he gets the right backing.  This time in the Championship won't be like previous.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: don1thedon on August 05, 2018, 09:03:15 AM
There will be more days like yesterday I am sure. Darren is a rookie Head Coach and he made some mistakes but he was also let down by some of his players.
... ...
This is a hell of a challenge for any Head Coach but even more so for one in his first job. All that said the plain fact is every fan who was on the Moore bandwagon had to know that and for some to be turning after one game is disappointing.

We have to give him time to ring the changes that are needed and if that means we have a stuttering season well that is just the way it is. We absolutely don't need another 6 month Head Coach appointment for any coach to achieve a culture and football shift they need time it won't happen overnight nor will it be plain sailing but the long term gain is worth the short term pain.
Nicely put Stan.
There are challenges on so many fronts & we as supporters have to stay strong and support one of our own, someone we all know has the clubs best interests at heart - that's a rare opportunity!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on August 05, 2018, 09:13:34 AM
Its disappointing that so many on here are already slating the manager. I agree it wasn't a great day and I agree with many of the points in terms of formation and selection, but can we back him for a little bit longer please.

If we lose the next game and then end up booing the players on to the pitch in the next home game then we are right back to square one and all the efforts of Moore and the club to galvanise a pride and culture will have been wasted within the first few weeks.

We need to stick with this for the next few games and see how things develop. I really think that with Jones now at the club, some of these issues will be ironed out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on August 05, 2018, 09:49:21 AM
Which three?

I felt nyom , hegazi , Robson Kanu who isn’t good enough anyway , looked like they would rather be anywhere else. Wasn’t over enthused by Bartley either .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kirk on August 05, 2018, 10:26:21 AM
Did anyone scout Bolton during their friendlies? Totally wrong tactics, team, line up. Wrong subs and couldnt change it. All of this worries me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on August 05, 2018, 10:42:20 AM
Darren's options on the bench were limited at best so I'm not going to read to much into his substition. While the buck will always stop with the manager the two goals we conceded were school boy errors by our defence and not really down to any tactical error on his part.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheBrom on August 05, 2018, 10:44:57 AM
I got the feeling he was trying to make a point about needing another AM by not changing it when we clearly needed a change.

Saying that, other than Jimmy, the entire bench didn't really inspire confidence.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: koren on August 05, 2018, 11:00:42 AM
It's still early days in his managerial career, he would have many things to learn and improve.

Hope he can notice the problem and makes changes in the coming games.
Especially the players selection in midfield, Brunt alongside Livermore is not a good partnership in my opinion.
Both are too slow and can't go forward. I don't blame them because Brunt is not a central midfielder while Livermore is a holding midfielder.
They need an attacking midfielder plays in front of them.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on August 05, 2018, 11:01:22 AM
Darren's options on the bench were limited at best so I'm not going to read to much into his substition. While the buck will always stop with the manager the two goals we conceded were school boy errors by our defence and not really down to any tactical error on his part.

IMO this is the area that needs sorting fast. Steve Madeley (ex E & S) made the point yesterday about Sam Johnstone's fitness, If he's not fit, he shouldn't be playing.
Up to now he's not impressed me at all having watched him yesterday & during the Cov friendly match.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on August 05, 2018, 12:06:30 PM
At what point do these set of players take their share of the blame? I'm sorry but Rodriguez, Livermore, Brunt, Phillips etc should be ashamed they couldn't find a way through Bolton's defence yesterday.

Not because Bolton are mugs, but because we had 72% possession. Scoring goals isn't hard. Brentford scored 5 yesterday. All it takes is some movement and good passes and you have a goalscoring opportunity.

90 minutes with 72% possesion and all these players could muster was 3 shots on target, mostly from outside the box.

I really am starting to shift the blame from managers to players now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: graka on August 05, 2018, 12:07:56 PM
I'm not going to go in hard on Moore for the same reason I didn't go in hard on Irvine.

It's neither of their faults they were appointed to roles way out of their depth.

Once again the fans have been let down by penny pinching by the board as I refuse to accept we couldn't afford to appoint a manager that had actually been a manager before.

Now he has been appointed though I feel we should give him at least one full season to see if he can improve and reach the required standard for the 2019/2020 season.

The question is will he improve enough? Or will the board even give him a full season to try?

I'm skeptical on both of those fronts

Exactly right. This club have always gone for the cheapest option available going back to the 70s when I started supporting us.
If you look at most teams they have a style of play ours is governed by shoe horning certain players in
Brunt must play, jrod another.
Hegazi and nyom had hardly any pre season but started.
Apparently we had a decent budget but again we only seem to be spending what we recoup
No real infrastructure behind the scenes of people with any football knowledge and a man in charge put there by an absent uninterested owner to balance the books.
I can only see another season of struggle with poor football on show
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on August 05, 2018, 12:25:01 PM
It's Moore's fault he is responsible for the team put out on the pitch.  If the players aren't good enough then get rid.  Players don't pick themselves.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 05, 2018, 12:25:42 PM
At what point do these set of players take their share of the blame? I'm sorry but Rodriguez, Livermore, Brunt, Phillips etc should be ashamed they couldn't find a way through Bolton's defence yesterday.

Not because Bolton are mugs, but because we had 72% possession. Scoring goals isn't hard. Brentford scored 5 yesterday. All it takes is some movement and good passes and you have a goalscoring opportunity.

90 minutes with 72% possesion and all these players could muster was 3 shots on target, mostly from outside the box.

I really am starting to shift the blame from managers to players now.


The players have taken plenty of the blame but managers have to take their share too. It was Darren Moore who picked the team yesterday, who set up in a basic 4-4-2, and who failed to make changes to affect the game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on August 05, 2018, 12:26:52 PM
Given it was Graeme Jones' first game with us yesterday I'm wondering what he would have thought - especially of our midfield and general movement.

It was obvious last season that we were getting outnumbered in the midfield area when we played the 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1.....if the midfield failings are not obvious from the touchline then DM or someone else should be sat up in the stand looking down on the pitch as it's obvious from there.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 05, 2018, 12:32:03 PM
In this day and age setting up in a basic 4-4-2 is a disadvantage before you even kick off. Graeme Jones needs to make Darren Moore understand this. It's not even as though we have the players who suit such a system partcularly up front. We need to go 3 in midfield one way or another.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on August 05, 2018, 01:00:53 PM
It's Moore's fault he is responsible for the team put out on the pitch.  If the players aren't good enough then get rid.  Players don't pick themselves.

The system was wrong but the players we put out were more than good enough to
beat Bolton.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: jharman292 on August 05, 2018, 01:07:35 PM
Hate 442. Whether Moore believes by playing 2 forwards we will carry more threat going forward, I don't know but I do know if he continues to play that system with the central midfielders that we have, it's going to be a long season.

My biggest problem with playing the system was just like Pulis, one of the forwards (appeared to be JRod yesterday) is asked to drop and get involved with play, however as we don't have a natural number 10 apart from Morrison who wasn't on the pitch, it just doesn't work and results in both strikers having little impact.

It is woeful that the club has been crying out for a central playmaker for so long and have failed to bring one in. As much as I wanted Morrison on the pitch yesterday, I was concerned that on day 1, we seemed to be so reliant on a man that is the wrong side of 30 and is coming back from some serious injury problems.

I am desperate for Moore to succeed and give us a team that we can really get behind but yesterday he made the same predictable mistakes that previous managers have been making. Yes he needs support in the market but he had the players yesterday so create a different result in my opinion and failed to do so, he must learn very quickly.




 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 05, 2018, 01:15:56 PM
Hate 442. Whether Moore believes by playing 2 forwards we will carry more threat going forward, I don't know but I do know if he continues to play that system with the central midfielders that we have, it's going to be a long season.

My biggest problem with playing the system was just like Pulis, one of the forwards (appeared to be JRod yesterday) is asked to drop and get involved with play, however as we don't have a natural number 10 apart from Morrison who wasn't on the pitch, it just doesn't work and results in both strikers having little impact.

It is woeful that the club has been crying out for a central playmaker for so long and have failed to bring one in. As much as I wanted Morrison on the pitch yesterday, I was concerned that on day 1, we seemed to be so reliant on a man that is the wrong side of 30 and is coming back from some serious injury problems.

I am desperate for Moore to succeed and give us a team that we can really get behind but yesterday he made the same predictable mistakes that previous managers have been making. Yes he needs support in the market but he had the players yesterday so create a different result in my opinion and failed to do so, he must learn very quickly.


That is what is so disturbing for me. Why can head coaches not see the obvious. Watching yesterday was like watching us under Pardew.

Ryan Woods and Marcus Maddison - go and get the pair of them this week.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBASweden on August 05, 2018, 01:26:10 PM

That is what is so disturbing for me. Why can head coaches not see the obvious. Watching yesterday was like watching us under Pardew.

Ryan Woods and Marcus Maddison - go and get the pair of them this week.

Isn't Ryan Woods mainly a CDM? I see Romaine Sawyers as a better option tbh
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on August 05, 2018, 01:27:49 PM
Isn't Ryan Woods mainly a CDM? I see Romaine Sawyers as a better option tbh
We need both types of player. We need two central midfielders to dictate the tempo and an attacking midfielder to play behind the striker and create chances.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 05, 2018, 01:28:45 PM
Isn't Ryan Woods mainly a CDM? I see Romaine Sawyers as a better option tbh


He can pass a ball and make the play. I'd bring him in in a heartbeat but as part of a rebuild for the future. We need more than just Woods though he'd be pretty ineffective in yesterday's set up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on August 05, 2018, 01:32:07 PM
Given it was Graeme Jones' first game with us yesterday I'm wondering what he would have thought - especially of our midfield and general movement.

It was obvious last season that we were getting outnumbered in the midfield area when we played the 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1.....if the midfield failings are not obvious from the touchline then DM or someone else should be sat up in the stand looking down on the pitch as it's obvious from there.

I feel had Jones had more time with the squad then there would have been changes. This is where the assistant should have been appointed much earlier Jones has very limited knowledge of our playing staff that will take a few weeks to sort .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on August 05, 2018, 01:41:05 PM
I love Big Dave, but yesterday he got it horribly wrong. The game was crying out for pace and creativity and he failed to act. The moment Burke came on he was running through their defence. Mozza should have been on too. 24 hours later and I'm still bemused as to why he only made one sub on such a hot day.

His press conference wasn't convincing either. It's fine praising the other team, saying how their game plan worked etc. Yes, we all saw that it worked. Their plain was to pack the defence and midfield to stop us getting through. We simply weren't drilled enough, and we didn't have a plan B. We want to know how you plan to change it for Forest on Tuesday...


This isn't entirely DM's fault, but pre-season seemed to be a "let's just see how things go" rather than steam rolling a plan into operation. I appreciate he can only build a wall with the bricks he has to hand, but surely it was obvious that players were going to be leaving, so why release McAuley and Yacob with no replacements lined up?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 05, 2018, 01:45:29 PM
I love Big Dave, but yesterday he got it horribly wrong. The game was crying out for pace and creativity and he failed to act. The moment Burke came on he was running through their defence. Mozza should have been on too. 24 hours later and I'm still bemused as to why he only made one sub on such a hot day.

His press conference wasn't convincing either. It's fine praising the other team, saying how their game plan worked etc. Yes, we all saw that it worked. Their plain was to pack the defence and midfield to stop us getting through. We simply weren't drilled enough, and we didn't have a plan B. We want to know how you plan to change it for Forest on Tuesday...


This isn't entirely DM's fault, but pre-season seemed to be a "let's just see how things go" rather than steam rolling a plan into operation. I appreciate he can only build a wall with the bricks he has to hand, but surely it was obvious that players were going to be leaving, so why release McAuley and Yacob with no replacements lined up?


Yes. Much as Albion fans love Darren that sort of stuff will pretty soon grate on fans.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on August 05, 2018, 01:55:06 PM
Darren Moore has to take his fair share of blame there. There's no point saying their system worked, we didn't try a plan B at all.

On a warm day, when we had plenty of possession but not creating chances, I don't see why he only made 1 change.  And with a game on Tuesday as well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Westie on August 05, 2018, 02:13:45 PM
We need Dawson in the team...........
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on August 05, 2018, 02:34:51 PM
I love Big Dave, but yesterday he got it horribly wrong. The game was crying out for pace and creativity and he failed to act. The moment Burke came on he was running through their defence. Mozza should have been on too. 24 hours later and I'm still bemused as to why he only made one sub on such a hot day.

His press conference wasn't convincing either. It's fine praising the other team, saying how their game plan worked etc. Yes, we all saw that it worked. Their plain was to pack the defence and midfield to stop us getting through. We simply weren't drilled enough, and we didn't have a plan B. We want to know how you plan to change it for Forest on Tuesday...


This isn't entirely DM's fault, but pre-season seemed to be a "let's just see how things go" rather than steam rolling a plan into operation. I appreciate he can only build a wall with the bricks he has to hand, but surely it was obvious that players were going to be leaving, so why release McAuley and Yacob with no replacements lined up?

You must have been watching a different Oliver Burke to me, all I saw was a player running down blind alleys.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 05, 2018, 02:43:13 PM
You must have been watching a different Oliver Burke to me, all I saw was a player running down blind alleys.


To be fair there was no other alley to run into as there was very little movement ahead of / inside him. It's asking a lot of any player to expect them to beat and keep beating 2/3/4 players. Only other options he had on the ball were retain possession or hopefully cross into a crowded penalty area.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tylerm on August 05, 2018, 03:42:17 PM

You must have been watching a different Oliver Burke to me, all I saw was a player running down blind alleys.
[/quote]


At least he ran down an alley. Unlike Robson Kanu who was woeful again. Darren has to learn fast. Yesterday was as bad as anything in the last 2 years
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 05, 2018, 06:05:59 PM
We have to be patient with Moore/jones
It's his first full season, we have to give him that. We are going Through a massive change at the moment. We've lost one game. Still 40+. We have to see what happens this window then appoint scouts and sporting director before the January window and back him in that to. Obviously they want to change the style, he's got Barnes at the moment attacking wise. Let's see what happens when he gets others. Next summer will realistically be time to release the likes of myhill, brunt Morrison and Barry . The likes of fitzwater, Edwards and field could be very good players by then.
See what happens end of the season. If top 8 and fail to go up then he's earnt another season to get a full team of his. Below 8 then we both depart aye ?

No point in being trigger happy, I thought we was all sick of that ? It takes teams many years coming back except for Burnley and and Newcastle In the last decade or so ?

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on August 05, 2018, 06:27:20 PM
We have to be patient with Moore/jones
It's his first full season, we have to give him that. We are going Through a massive change at the moment. We've lost one game. Still 40+. We have to see what happens this window then appoint scouts and sporting director before the January window and back him in that to. Obviously they want to change the style, he's got Barnes at the moment attacking wise. Let's see what happens when he gets others. Next summer will realistically be time to release the likes of myhill, brunt Morrison and Barry . The likes of fitzwater, Edwards and field could be very good players by then.
See what happens end of the season. If top 8 and fail to go up then he's earnt another season to get a full team of his. Below 8 then we both depart aye ?

No point in being trigger happy, I thought we was all sick of that ? It takes teams many years coming back except for Burnley and and Newcastle In the last decade or so ?
Agree with the general sentiment but I don't want to see the same lack of movement, linking up and pace in the team...we don't have to wait a year to improve that. Also on a technicality, we can't release Morrison at the end of this year as he has another year in his favour.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on August 05, 2018, 06:33:24 PM
Top 8 with our budget and resources is nowhere near good enough. Top 6 is the bare minimum. Not about Big Dave, either he gets it right or gets the sack, no room for sentiment. Need to make the most of our parachute money season, either we go up this year or next or we become a small second tier club again for a decade. No excuses for yesterday’s shambles. The fans can see Brunt / Livermore doesn’t work and we’re not the paid professionals. Had all summer to get the basics right and schoolboy stuff going on yesterday. Expecting a much better account and result on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieNick on August 05, 2018, 06:52:44 PM
I think we'll lose on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 05, 2018, 06:58:32 PM
Top 8 with our budget and resources is nowhere near good enough. Top 6 is the bare minimum. Not about Big Dave, either he gets it right or gets the sack, no room for sentiment. Need to make the most of our parachute money season, either we go up this year or next or we become a small second tier club again for a decade. No excuses for yesterday’s shambles. The fans can see Brunt / Livermore doesn’t work and we’re not the paid professionals. Had all summer to get the basics right and schoolboy stuff going on yesterday. Expecting a much better account and result on Tuesday.

What budget is that ? Signing a keeper and center back for cash ? 2 players.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on August 05, 2018, 07:06:15 PM
What budget is that ? Signing a keeper and center back for cash ? 2 players.

We have a fairly strong squad with a lot of options. Gayle in, Dawson back, more singings to come as well. Our wage bill and squad strength is compabale or superior to any other team in the league. Top 6 is bare minimum.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: barnestormer on August 05, 2018, 07:08:51 PM
We have a fairly strong squad with a lot of options. Gayle in, Dawson back, more singings to come as well. Our wage bill and squad strength is compabale or superior to any other team in the league. Top 6 is bare minimum.
Trouble is can Darren Moore get a tune out of them? On yesterdays performance I worry
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: charlebaggie on August 05, 2018, 08:14:23 PM
Trouble is can Darren Moore get a tune out of them? On yesterdays performance I worry
.     After one game! Come on pal give him a chance..What about his record at the end of last season (Don't forget in the premier ). Unbeaten in pre season . One defeat in our 1st game.and you're ready to sack him UNBELIEVABLE !!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: barnestormer on August 05, 2018, 08:36:13 PM
.     After one game! Come on pal give him a chance..What about his record at the end of last season (Don't forget in the premier ). Unbeaten in pre season . One defeat in our 1st game.and you're ready to sack him UNBELIEVABLE !!!
Where did I say I was ready to sack him? Being a caretaker in the position we were in is one thing but being coach in his own right with the heavy burden of responsibility and expectation to get us promoted is another,I do hope he comes good but we can't afford sentiment to get in the way
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elminius on August 05, 2018, 08:41:31 PM
Having sat by the dugout yesterday and listened to his tactical thoughts to the players when trying to keep them out at corners, im more than worried. He just kept shouting 'defend', which simplistically is what they needed to do but not quite a tactical revelation!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheBrom on August 05, 2018, 08:44:11 PM
Having sat by the dugout yesterday and listened to his tactical thoughts to the players when trying to keep them out at corners, im more than worried. He just kept shouting 'defend', which simplistically is what they needed to do but not quite a tactical revelation!

Similar to when keepers shout ‘out!’ When a corner comes in. Thanks for reminding me I was going to do the exact opposite
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: NathWBA on August 05, 2018, 09:04:42 PM
Having sat by the dugout yesterday and listened to his tactical thoughts to the players when trying to keep them out at corners, im more than worried. He just kept shouting 'defend', which simplistically is what they needed to do but not quite a tactical revelation!
what would you suggest he shout? I struggle to understand what is wrong with shouting “defend” or “get rid” from a corner, what tactical genius could he have shouted instead? If he’d not said a word people would complain he doesn’t communicate enough.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 05, 2018, 09:22:50 PM
I don't care what he shouts during the game, i care more about the week of training leading up to it and what he is able to do during the game by way of substitutions to impact the game.

If, by half time, he was unable to see that HRK needed to be removed for Mozza with J Rod going up top, then I'm sorry but that is just horrific. That is without even examining why HRK was selected up top in the first place...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: charlebaggie on August 05, 2018, 09:23:12 PM
what would you suggest he shout? I struggle to understand what is wrong with shouting “defend” or “get rid” from a corner, what tactical genius could he have shouted instead? If he’d not said a word people would complain he doesn’t communicate enough.
.    Thought I was missing something.Thought there was a new tactical terminology  :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: charlebaggie on August 05, 2018, 09:27:09 PM
I don't care what he shouts during the game, i care more about the week of training leading up to it and what he is able to do during the game by way of substitutions to impact the game.

If, by half time, he was unable to see that HRK needed to be removed for Mozza with J Rod going up top, then I'm sorry but that is just horrific. That is without even examining why HRK was selected up top in the first place...
.     HRK had to start because Rondon was pulled out at the last minute .was originally down to play then was pulled from the squad completely
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on August 05, 2018, 09:39:23 PM
I don't care what he shouts during the game, i care more about the week of training leading up to it and what he is able to do during the game by way of substitutions to impact the game.

If, by half time, he was unable to see that HRK needed to be removed for Mozza with J Rod going up top, then I'm sorry but that is just horrific. That is without even examining why HRK was selected up top in the first place...

IMO DM was thinking of the game on Tuesday & was saving Mozza,

Not sure if I'm missing something, but it was the defence that lost us the game yesterday, & yet we're focusing on tactics.
I've only watched yesterday's game & the Coventry pre- season, & already my concern is the way we defend, & I've yet to be convinced by Sam Johnstone.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on August 05, 2018, 10:09:35 PM
IMO DM was thinking of the game on Tuesday & was saving Mozza,

Not sure if I'm missing something, but it was the defence that lost us the game yesterday, & yet we're focusing on tactics.
I've only watched yesterday's game & the Coventry pre- season, & already my concern is the way we defend, & I've yet to be convinced by Sam Johnstone.
Yes I think Mozza was being saved also, but he or Harper should have come on for 20 minutes. We were decidedly average in all departments. Barnes goal was carved out of pretty much nothing and we didn't really create any clear chances other than the Hegazi headers from set plays. Lots of work to do for DM and GJ on the team shape, midfield set-up....lots and lots of work to do.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: spencer Baggie on August 05, 2018, 10:31:31 PM
Everybody just needs to calm down. Big Dave needs time. Review it after 10 games. Hopefully the new Asst Manager can help stamp some authority on our style too.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: jamesh_91 on August 05, 2018, 10:59:00 PM
.     HRK had to start because Rondon was pulled out at the last minute .was originally down to play then was pulled from the squad completely

If that's the case then it does explain  it because you would spend all week working on your shape for the game and if that was 4-4-1-1 to suddenly change system the day before  doesn't really work as all your patterns of play you've worked on are a waste of time. The only problem is Hal Robson Kanu isn't good enough to play the role asked of him as lead striker. I won't criticise the guy as he gives his all and that's all you can ask from a player.

If we had the ball for 72 percent of the time that meant we only didn't have it for around 15 minutes so to concede two was quite poor. I would have taken a point yesterday but we ultimately lost it trying to win the game at the death.

A lot of games at home are going to be like that and we need to be confident that if we get a goal that it will be enough to win the game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on August 05, 2018, 11:00:44 PM
can I just ask why we would be saving players after 1 game? surely you put out the strongest team possible at all times and go for it when we play at home. if we are saving Morrison in this manner we'll get about 20-30 appearances such is the nature of this league.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mig on August 05, 2018, 11:19:06 PM
The signs were there for anyone who wanted to see them in Moore's six games last season. Sadly too many were caught up in the positive results against the big teams, rather than the tepid and uncreative performances against those we should have been able to beat (notably Swansea and Palace).

I wanted to believe that perhaps that style was a temporary fix which would transition to attacking and incisive football this season, but the early signs are suggest not. Hope to be proven wrong.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 05, 2018, 11:26:53 PM
We had most possession 72%. 2nd most shots (20, Wigan had 21). Highest attendance. In the division this weekend.


Even with 4-4-2 and supposedly a dreadful centre midfield we dominated the game. Hegazi should have scored a hat trick. Bolton effectively did to us what we've done for the last 5 year's to the likes of Liverpool and Manchester United.


I won't be writing us or Darren off so easily.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: MBWBA on August 05, 2018, 11:35:59 PM
Everybody just needs to calm down. Big Dave needs time. Review it after 10 games. Hopefully the new Asst Manager can help stamp some authority on our style too.

Didn’t Fulham win 1 of their first 10 games and still went up?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 05, 2018, 11:57:11 PM
We had most possession 72%. 2nd most shots (20, Wigan had 21). Highest attendance. In the division this weekend.


Even with 4-4-2 and supposedly a dreadful centre midfield we dominated the game. Hegazi should have scored a hat trick. Bolton effectively did to us what we've done for the last 5 year's to the likes of Liverpool and Manchester United.


I won't be writing us or Darren off so easily.

Possession means nowt, 2 shots on target is shocking from 20 attempts and yes we do have dreadful centre midfield, we have had a Summer to do something about it and now we have 4 days.

We were also playing a side which just escaped relegation last season, have had a stuttering pre-season due to players not being paid so hardly one of the favourites to go up.

I'm not writing us off as I never wrote us on, we will be lucky to reach the play offs with this squad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie38 on August 06, 2018, 04:51:29 AM
We had most possession 72%. 2nd most shots (20, Wigan had 21). Highest attendance. In the division this weekend.


Even with 4-4-2 and supposedly a dreadful centre midfield we dominated the game. Hegazi should have scored a hat trick. Bolton effectively did to us what we've done for the last 5 year's to the likes of Liverpool and Manchester United.


I won't be writing us or Darren off so easily.

This is what I've been telling myself. Bolton came and just did a job on us. Not every side will be able to do that Bolton have always been a physical team that go away and play for a draw or a scrappy win they are just one of those sides. Let's just get this week out the way we could have a completely different looking squad this time next week. I have faith in big dave
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on August 06, 2018, 08:00:52 AM
Completely agree with Phil. This summer has been a disappointment and we now only have a few days left to bring in the key creative modfielder that we very blatantly needed last season (as said by Pulis, and then Pardew, and the local press and the fans, but apparantly not by those at the club).

Going to be tough to make the top 6 at the moment.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on August 06, 2018, 10:01:16 AM
Possession means nowt, 2 shots on target is shocking from 20 attempts and yes we do have dreadful centre midfield, we have had a Summer to do something about it and now we have 4 days.

We were also playing a side which just escaped relegation last season, have had a stuttering pre-season due to players not being paid so hardly one of the favourites to go up.

I'm not writing us off as I never wrote us on, we will be lucky to reach the play offs with this squad.

That's the thing, for all our possession we didn't really create any chances that weren't from dead ball situations.  It's not like Bolton had to ride their luck to beat us.  If we had created a lot of really good chances then I'd be more confident as it is, one of the poorer sides in the league kept us out comfortable while our defence looked liked they'd only just met for the first time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 06, 2018, 10:16:05 AM
Where were these 20 shots we weren't meant to have had? I don't remember them.

I remember:

1 Barnes goal
3 Hegazi headers one hit bar, one saved, one wide
1 Nyom shot first half when he cut inside
1 Phillips (I think) shot, similar position, went wide, may have been deflected, can't remember exactly
1 Brunt pooh free kick second half, hit wall
1 Barnes shot blocked inside left channel, early second half
1 pooh Robson - Kanu effort from about thirty yards with about 15 mins to go

What were the other eleven?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: charlebaggie on August 06, 2018, 10:26:36 AM
Completely agree with Phil. This summer has been a disappointment and we now only have a few days left to bring in the key creative modfielder that we very blatantly needed last season (as said by Pulis, and then Pardew, and the local press and the fans, but apparantly not by those at the club).

Going to be tough to make the top 6 at the moment.
    We can take players on loan after Thursday so there's no rush. We can sit back and see what players in the prem won't get a game
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on August 06, 2018, 10:31:27 AM
Completely agree with Phil. This summer has been a disappointment and we now only have a few days left to bring in the key creative modfielder that we very blatantly needed last season (as said by Pulis, and then Pardew, and the local press and the fans, but apparantly not by those at the club).

Going to be tough to make the top 6 at the moment.

Our midfield has been a problem since we lost the balance of having Yacob and Mulumbu in there.

The problem we have is a lot of our midfielders are the same, Barry/Livermore/Brunt/Field all offer the same type of play, so when we play a midfield of 2 and 2 of those are picked, it limits what we can do.

That's why people wanted Morrison to stay, not because of sentiment, but more because hes the only one in the squad who can play in the middle and offer us a bit more creativity going forward.

Personally I think we need to play a middle two of possibly Field and Livermore sitting deeper and having a three infront of them of Morrison/Burke/Barnes/Phillips all rotating and trying to play.

When we play 4-4-2 we lack any sort of imagination.

The biggest confusion for me is we have hardly played 4-4-2 all pre season but revert to it for the first game of the season, hopefully we look at a 4-2-3-1 against Forest.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on August 06, 2018, 10:32:35 AM
There were quite a few awful efforts from about 30 yards, the kind where they're never even close to being a threat, not even struck well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on August 06, 2018, 12:56:56 PM
I just have the same two questions that I keep coming back to:

1/ Why play one formation for all (or most) of pre-season, and then go with something completely different on the opening day?

2/ Why no subs? Did he leave Morrison off for Forest, or did he not want to be seen to cave in to the fans? If it's the latter, then its a problem.

It was a step in the right direction that we were able to dominate a game and play possession football, but we need to be stronger defensively and actually have a number 10 who can create chances at this level. No use signing somebody like Gayle if you aren't going to create chances.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on August 06, 2018, 01:18:12 PM
It was almost as if he won a raffle to take charge.

Regardless of whether he is inexperienced or not, he should have seen clearly that the set-up and personnel was not working. I am more concerned that the apparent answer to the problem was to take off our best player and do nothing regarding our style strike force and midfield that cried out for a change.

I hope the Brunt and Livermore experiment is binned for good.

Furthermore, I am not sure pinning our hopes on Dwight Gayle is going to be much use to us if we cannot provide him with any service. If anything, I think we would cope much better with a Sam Vokes (or a Saloman Rondon) to allow us to play into.

Early days, but a more worrying sign. I hope it was just a one-off.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 06, 2018, 01:20:07 PM
Why no subs? Did he leave Morrison off for Forest, or did he not want to be seen to cave in to the fans? If it's the latter, then its a problem.
They're both a problem for me. Enthusiasm and expectations were high amongst fans for this game, and it was important to get off to a good start, so holding any players back for the next game couldn't be justified in my view.

Regardless of that, it was a hot day, so only making one substitution (and that after 76 minutes) also doesn't make sense. Everyone (well almost) wants to give Darren a chance, but many will also need to see him trying to make sensible/right decisions during matches, otherwise increasing numbers of questions will start being asked.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: cad on August 06, 2018, 05:50:28 PM
We had most possession 72%. 2nd most shots (20, Wigan had 21). Highest attendance. In the division this weekend.


Even with 4-4-2 and supposedly a dreadful centre midfield we dominated the game. Hegazi should have scored a hat trick. Bolton effectively did to us what we've done for the last 5 year's to the likes of Liverpool and Manchester United.


I won't be writing us or Darren off so easily.


Have you found a full match replay? I'd really appreciate a link if you have one.
Thanks in advance...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on August 07, 2018, 09:05:15 AM
I honestly think Darren bottled it on Saturday, 1st game and all that, just get a result and get it out of the way, sort of approach. I don't believe what we saw on Saturday is the way he wants to play, he just got a bit scared and reverted to safety first. 1st day nerves.
He said afterwards that it was a wake up call for the players but I'm sure it was one for him as well. Hopefully he will introduce Johnstone, Hegazi and Bartley to each other before tonights game, bin the Brunt / Livermore combo and get Morrison into a 3 behind 1 striker.
If we see the same team and formation then I will be genuinely worried.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 07, 2018, 09:37:47 AM
Lose tonight and again saturday which is highly probable and the pressure is on. I dont think we would ever boo Big Dave though
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 07, 2018, 09:42:54 AM
Loose tonight and again saturday which is highly probable and the pressure is on. I dont think we would ever boo Big Dave though


Lets hope we tighten things up at the back then...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on August 07, 2018, 10:01:35 AM
Could probably argue this game is his biggest test as a manager/head coach.

He had free hits at the remaining games last year.

A lot of us (and the rest of the country) probably had us to beat Bolton on Saturday, some expected a comfortable win, but that wasn't the case.

This game is a big test for DM, does he stick with the 4-4-2 or does he change it up.

Im excited, but nervous.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on August 07, 2018, 10:02:45 AM

Lets hope we tighten things up at the back then...

Sharp this morning !
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on August 07, 2018, 11:26:18 AM
 That means Dawson back tonight.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on August 07, 2018, 05:10:26 PM
How naive were our board listening to the players? When it was announced i posted that i felt sick
It was removed presumably by some doctor who knew i didn't really.
Now my worst fears have been realised, Big Dave is out of his depth, abandoned by the players and will be hung out to dry by a clueless board.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 07, 2018, 05:11:37 PM
How naive were our board listening to the players? When it was announced i posted that i felt sick
It was removed presumably by some doctor who knew i didn't really.
Now my worst fears have been realised, Big Dave is out of his depth, abandoned by the players and will be hung out to dry by a clueless board.


It's been one match...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on August 07, 2018, 05:26:55 PM
How naive were our board listening to the players? When it was announced i posted that i felt sick
It was removed presumably by some doctor who knew i didn't really.
Now my worst fears have been realised, Big Dave is out of his depth, abandoned by the players and will be hung out to dry by a clueless board.

Its comments like this that make me hope we win tonight more than usual.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on August 07, 2018, 05:28:00 PM

It's been one match...

It has yes, but Forest and Norwich next, i can see us struggling to stay up. I have no confidence in how the club is being run. When players like Foster want out, then something is very wrong. I have no confidence either in our transfer people. Buffoons.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on August 07, 2018, 05:30:01 PM
Its comments like this that make me hope we win tonight more than usual.

Nothing would give me more pleasure, but i see the mess this club is in.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 07, 2018, 05:44:57 PM
I have to admit, I am praying for a win and a good performance tonight as I am needing some faith to be restored
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: miggybaggy on August 07, 2018, 05:53:31 PM
Nothing would give me more pleasure, but i see the mess this club is in.

Yep. Three to four more years as mid-table championship at best thanks to Pulis. We'll go to Forest later and probably play Kanu up front, a midfield partnership of Brunt and Livermore only going backwards and sideways, and our best player (Barnes) stuck out on the wing never seeing the ball until he's substituted and increasingly demoralised. Can only see us being battered.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 07, 2018, 05:58:15 PM
It has yes, but Forest and Norwich next, i can see us struggling to stay up. I have no confidence in how the club is being run. When players like Foster want out, then something is very wrong. I have no confidence either in our transfer people. Buffoons.


Foster has never dropped into the Championship. Jumped ship every time.


I know you're a glass half empty supporter but I feel totally opposite we'll beat Forest and Norwich.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on August 07, 2018, 06:25:04 PM
It has yes, but Forest and Norwich next, i can see us struggling to stay up. I have no confidence in how the club is being run. When players like Foster want out, then something is very wrong. I have no confidence either in our transfer people. Buffoons.

I don't know any details about why Ben Foster left, but, unlike some others, I think he meant it when he said he wanted to stay & help us get back to the Premier league.

However,..................................I believe that he saw himself as our Number 1 keeper, & when he realised that wasn't going to be the case this season, he reviewed his position.

I believe he took the view, that he was better off financially on Watford's bench than on ours, & that's why he left.

At the moment, we're in a pretty tumultuous transition period, & on the surface, it's quite alarming how we've unravelled since this time last year, but it's rare that idealistic solutions are available, & it looks as though we've been forced to take a more pragmatic approach,
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: NathWBA on August 07, 2018, 06:27:40 PM
I don't know any details about why Ben Foster left, but, unlike some others, I think he meant it when he said he wanted to stay & help us get back to the Premier league.

However,..................................I believe that he saw himself as our Number 1 keeper, & when he realised that wasn't going to be the case this season, he reviewed his position.

I believe he took the view, that he was better off financially on Watford's bench than on ours, & that's why he left.

At the moment, we're in a pretty tumultuous transition period, & on the surface, it's quite alarming how we've unravelled since this time last year, but it's rare that idealistic solutions are available, & it looks as though we've been forced to take a more pragmatic approach,
from what people have said foster never had any intention of staying at all and as soon as relegation was confirmed he said he wanted out, apparently a lot of the other players weren’t happy that he’d publicly said he would stay but behind closed doors was telling people he was going to leave.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 07, 2018, 06:40:22 PM
Foster wouldn't have been on our bench and he won't be on Watford's...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wbastrollers on August 07, 2018, 06:50:54 PM
How naive were our board listening to the players? When it was announced i posted that i felt sick
It was removed presumably by some doctor who knew i didn't really.
Now my worst fears have been realised, Big Dave is out of his depth, abandoned by the players and will be hung out to dry by a clueless board.
[/b]

Master of contradiction.
If ‘Darren Moore is out of his depth’ - you would keep him on then, I presume?

I will agree the board are clueless.
Darren Moore - has earned the right to be Head Coach. How long he stays there, will depend on him, this is a results game   no room for sentiment - They left It too long with Pardew, they will not make the same mistake this time.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on August 07, 2018, 08:40:50 PM
[/b]

Master of contradiction.
If ‘Darren Moore is out of his depth’ - you would keep him on then, I presume?

I will agree the board are clueless.
Darren Moore - has earned the right to be Head Coach. How long he stays there, will depend on him, this is a results game   no room for sentiment - They left It too long with Pardew, they will not make the same mistake this time.



A bit contradictory yourself, no room for sentiment. It was sentiment that got him the job, that and the fact he cost bugger all.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieNick on August 07, 2018, 08:58:01 PM
A bit contradictory yourself, no room for sentiment. It was sentiment that got him the job, that and the fact he cost bugger all.

Mainly due to the second point...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: barnestormer on August 07, 2018, 09:06:38 PM
Gone before the kids are on the street with penny for the guy
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on August 07, 2018, 09:42:54 PM
The quality of our players has got him out of jail tonight. Again the team selection was wrong and the substitutions (or lack of) were awful. There's no game plan at all and tonight was embarrassing at times. Needs to learn very very quickly or he needs replacing.

The fact we had Dean Smith on a plate makes me want to cry.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on August 07, 2018, 09:48:12 PM
The quality of our players has got him out of jail tonight. Again the team selection was wrong and the substitutions (or lack of) were awful. There's no game plan at all and tonight was embarrassing at times. Needs to learn very very quickly or he needs replacing.

The fact we had Dean Smith on a plate makes me want to cry.

Yes poor team selection. Man city kid hung out to dry at right back- if Moore doesn't like or rate nyom we need to bring one in.

Lack of changes is criminal, I know we have a weak bench but still Burke and HRK on there.

I want him to succeed but I am worried
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie96 on August 07, 2018, 09:49:11 PM
Adarabioyo is not a right back, need to get one in ASAP.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 07, 2018, 09:57:31 PM
We've hit the wood work 5 times in 2 games ? 2 fantastic goals. All good build up

We still have to be patient, we have a point to build on.

Guarenteed incomings plus Gayle to come into the team.

We will still cause major problems once we know what we have to work withz

Plus club won't sack Moore. It's 2 games
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: crocodile007 on August 07, 2018, 09:58:32 PM
Really sorry to say but early indications are that darren doesn't have a clue. I honestly think he looks out of his depth. There was simply no style of play. We didn't play possession football, we didn't look to break at pace, we didn't didn't play a pressing game. I really struggle to see what we tried to do. I am concerned.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBASweden on August 07, 2018, 10:00:01 PM
We desperatly have to change out the whole central midfield sadly. We need atleast 2 new CDM/CM as Field seems never to be fit and atleast 1 new CAM. Brunt and Livermore are like The Two Towers
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie96 on August 07, 2018, 10:00:41 PM
Not many teams will get points at forest, the Bolton game was a freak game, like when we beat Man U, Liverpool etc. The football is better, we need a better left winger so we can stick Barnes in the middle. The signs are there, give it time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ComebackStrodds on August 07, 2018, 10:01:22 PM
Adarabioyo is not a right back, need to get one in ASAP.

He had a Shelton Martis Against stoke moment, another worry.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adamstv on August 07, 2018, 10:03:12 PM
Really sorry to say but early indications are that darren doesn't have a clue. I honestly think he looks out of his depth. There was simply no style of play. We didn't play possession football, we didn't look to break at pace, we didn't didn't play a pressing game. I really struggle to see what we tried to do. I am concerned.

I echo those thoughts. Need a proper experienced right back for this league who can defend and attack when needed. Midfield is so slow it’s cringeworthy. Gayle was the only positive tonight
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on August 07, 2018, 10:04:32 PM
Does not like using substitutes, playing players out of position (centre backs rarely make good full backs!!!!), failing to spot the glaring weaknesses in our team.

It's been a poor start for Moore. Already exhibiting the worrying signs that make you lose faith very fast.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on August 07, 2018, 10:05:06 PM
Really sorry to say but early indications are that darren doesn't have a clue. I honestly think he looks out of his depth. There was simply no style of play. We didn't play possession football, we didn't look to break at pace, we didn't didn't play a pressing game. I really struggle to see what we tried to do. I am concerned.
I hope he has the sense to understand his own lack of experience and learn what he can from Jones, otherwise we'll be mid table at best, we can't leave the middle of the park open like that when we haven't got the ball.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on August 07, 2018, 10:06:18 PM
Not many teams will get points at forest, the Bolton game was a freak game, like when we beat Man U, Liverpool etc. The football is better, we need a better left winger so we can stick Barnes in the middle. The signs are there, give it time.

I don’t share your enthusiasm there are many more Bolton’s to come.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on August 07, 2018, 10:06:33 PM
Interesting both our goals have come from full backs pushing up and crossing to the opposite winger, clearly something from the training field. Keep up the good work!

Hit the post 4 times in two games and missed some great chances.

Clearly he knows nothing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheBrom on August 07, 2018, 10:08:36 PM
Can honestly see why Pulis used to double up the wide midfielders with our full backs. We haven't had a decent ones for seasons now. Clearly the whole defence is not getting a great deal of coaching at the moment, they look all over the place.

We desperately need to switch up our formation and also provide the link between midfield and strikers. Gayle looked lively tonight but we need to make sure he gets the service.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on August 07, 2018, 10:08:53 PM
Not many teams will get points at forest, the Bolton game was a freak game, like when we beat Man U, Liverpool etc. The football is better, we need a better left winger so we can stick Barnes in the middle. The signs are there, give it time.

Seems very optimistic. I think we have the tools in the squad to get into the top six and enough options this window to plug some of the holes but I don't have a lot of faith in Moore & co to get it right. Not sure he is ruthless enough. Brunt seems to be playing central midfield on reputation in the dressing room, certainly not form or merit. Why no Harper? Very negative stuff tonight.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 65baggie on August 07, 2018, 10:09:33 PM
The quality of our players has got him out of jail tonight. Again the team selection was wrong and the substitutions (or lack of) were awful. There's no game plan at all and tonight was embarrassing at times. Needs to learn very very quickly or he needs replacing.

The fact we had Dean Smith on a plate makes me want to cry.


Are you for real ???
It’s a learning curve
New No 2 as well
Look at it after 10-12 games
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on August 07, 2018, 10:13:20 PM
Not many teams will get points at forest, the Bolton game was a freak game, like when we beat Man U, Liverpool etc. The football is better, we need a better left winger so we can stick Barnes in the middle. The signs are there, give it time.

Brunt left side get a decent cm 2 problems fixed in one go
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on August 07, 2018, 10:14:01 PM
Seems very optimistic. I think we have the tools in the squad to get into the top six and enough options this window to plug some of the holes but I don't have a lot of faith in Moore & co to get it right. Not sure he is ruthless enough. Brunt seems to be playing central midfield on reputation in the dressing room, certainly not form or merit. Why no Harper? Very negative stuff tonight.

I shared those thoughts as well until he got rid of whole goalkeeping department and rebuilt it. Froze out all players who did not want to play for us or sold the rest. Let go players many wanted to keep.

Makes me think Rondon was deliberately dropped to show how weak we would be without another striker in the team to replace him.

Always ask your self the opposite, what could he of done to be more ruthless that would of benefited the club?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on August 07, 2018, 10:17:06 PM

Are you for real ???
It’s a learning curve
New No 2 as well
Look at it after 10-12 games

We haven't got time for a learning curve. We should be pushing in and around the top six, either Moore is good enough or he's not. He's not entitled to learn his trade and score up a season whilst our parachute money runs dry. Not saying sack him, but he hasn't got a free pass for 10-12 games either. Every game in this division we should be looking to win.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie96 on August 07, 2018, 10:20:50 PM
Brunt left side get a decent cm 2 problems fixed in one go

Would prefer someone quicker, maybe ojo would be a good option after all. Need to bin Chadli if he doesn’t want to be here asap
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on August 07, 2018, 10:24:29 PM
Its only two games into the new season and far too early for any rash decisions but that doesnt mean there cant be concerns.

We have played two very different opposition and struggled against both, against Bolton we had all the ball and did little with it, against Forest we had the chance to play on the counter but were slow and ponderous it was never an option and instead we resorted to hoofing it (bar the last 5 minutes)

Don Goodman said he couldnt see what Albions style or system was or what they were trying to do and i totally agree with him, said the same Saturday. Its not the finished article i expect to see but something towards what identity we want to have, i saw the friendly vs Coventry and was very positive (abeit it was a friendly) yet the two leagues games just seem to be carbon copies of most of the last two seasons.

It makes me wonder what the six weeks of preseason were spent doing if the last two games are the outcome, its still early days but watching Leeds on Sunday you could see what they were trying to do, it may go t**s up for them but you could see something, the same went with Derby second half vs Reading, Swansea the same they all have the same issues we have and brought in new players and manager  the same time yet you could see what they were trying to do, even if they werent great at it, i cant actually see what we are trying to do so far.

I have now seen 11 championship teams and we are the worst by far with Stoke the second worst, again its still early though.

I saw Big Daves interview and that worried me, i am hoping he said one thing to the cameras and something different to the players but he seemed happy with the game plan and it seemed we setup for a draw. David Johnson the pundit seemed genuinely shocked and said we should be going to Forest with the players we have, also last season from the league above, taking the game to them, winning and laying down a marker, instead it feels like we are happy to of got lucky with a point.

Again i am hoping this setup / performance was just to get points on board and build from there but i have my doubts. I like to give managers a fair crack but i think a good time to judge Big Dave will be 8-10 games, speaking as a fan i dont expect us to be winning the league, or even be top half but if when watching you could see we are trying to build something, even if it takes time then i will be happy, but what i dont want is another season like the last 2 or 3, especially this season where even with a relegated team, we should have stronger players.

I was told by a very good source that Moore wanted to keep most of last seasons squad if he could, so his managerial career at Albion will succeed or fail on that, its his choice to keep that group.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on August 07, 2018, 10:39:12 PM
Its only two games into the new season and far too early for any rash decisions but that doesnt mean there cant be concerns.

We have played two very different opposition and struggled against both, against Bolton we had all the ball and did little with it, against Forest we had the chance to play on the counter but were slow and ponderous it was never an option and instead we resorted to hoofing it (bar the last 5 minutes)

Don Goodman said he couldnt see what Albions style or system was or what they were trying to do and i totally agree with him, said the same Saturday. Its not the finished article i expect to see but something towards what identity we want to have, i saw the friendly vs Coventry and was very positive (abeit it was a friendly) yet the two leagues games just seem to be carbon copies of most of the last two seasons.

It makes me wonder what the six weeks of preseason were spent doing if the last two games are the outcome, its still early days but watching Leeds on Sunday you could see what they were trying to do, it may go t**s up for them but you could see something, the same went with Derby second half vs Reading, Swansea the same they all have the same issues we have and brought in new players and manager  the same time yet you could see what they were trying to do, even if they werent great at it, i cant actually see what we are trying to do so far.

I have now seen 11 championship teams and we are the worst by far with Stoke the second worst, again its still early though.

I saw Big Daves interview and that worried me, i am hoping he said one thing to the cameras and something different to the players but he seemed happy with the game plan and it seemed we setup for a draw. David Johnson the pundit seemed genuinely shocked and said we should be going to Forest with the players we have, also last season from the league above, taking the game to them, winning and laying down a marker, instead it feels like we are happy to of got lucky with a point.

Again i am hoping this setup / performance was just to get points on board and build from there but i have my doubts. I like to give managers a fair crack but i think a good time to judge Big Dave will be 8-10 games, speaking as a fan i dont expect us to be winning the league, or even be top half but if when watching you could see we are trying to build something, even if it takes time then i will be happy, but what i dont want is another season like the last 2 or 3, especially this season where even with a relegated team, we should have stronger players.

I was told by a very good source that Moore wanted to keep most of last seasons squad if he could, so his managerial career at Albion will succeed or fail on that, its his choice to keep that group.
I read that somewhere too. If that's true, he should be sacked for that alone/should never have been appointed in the first place. Shows a complete lack of judgement, and naive loyalty to the detriment of our promotion hopes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kamarasboot on August 07, 2018, 10:48:01 PM
We haven't got time for a learning curve. We should be pushing in and around the top six, either Moore is good enough or he's not. He's not entitled to learn his trade and score up a season whilst our parachute money runs dry. Not saying sack him, but he hasn't got a free pass for 10-12 games either. Every game in this division we should be looking to win.

Exactly this.

You’re either happy to give Moore 10-12 games to learn or you’re not, For me if you’re happy for that to happen then I don’t think you can pass comment on performance or results until that time has passed.

The problem is the season could be gone by then. The championship is not a league you can learn in if your aim is to get promoted.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on August 07, 2018, 10:52:05 PM
Look we lost at home by one goal late on,we've just drawn away at forest who've spent big.
If Phillips is playing well pop him in the 10 role just behind Gayle who looks like the answer to our prayers up front and replace Phillips position.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 07, 2018, 10:52:51 PM
Look we lost at home by one goal late on,we've just drawn away at forest who've spent big.
If Phillips is playing well pop him in the 10 role just behind Gayle who looks like the answer to our prayers up front and replace Phillips position.

Thank you for your brilliant insight as ever... ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on August 07, 2018, 10:57:10 PM
Gotto admit to being a bit worried. I agreed with Don Goodman on the point about it not being clear what our gameplan is, and the comment from Moore about setting out to stifle does worry me.

Its still very, very early though. We need to get to the Norwich game, with our squad largely settled, and two games to learn from, and take it from there. Our defence on the whole looked better than Saturday. Jones is now in to help guide Moore, and Jones' specialism is in attack where we need it most. On that basis I still hold out hope.

But for the post we would have 4 points. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Topman on August 07, 2018, 10:59:23 PM
For me the comments from David Johnson spoke volumes. He was shocked that our tactics were to soak up away from home with the quality we have. Early days but there is much to be concerned about with Moore. I said I would back him and I will but this needs to improve and quickly. He must sort out the middle of the park as a matter of urgency.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on August 07, 2018, 11:12:11 PM
It is two games in and Darren needs to go back to the drawing board. Tonight we needed to play further up the pitch as a unit.  I thought there were some glaringly obvious round pegs in square holes some of which were entirely avoidable. I cannot see the 4-4-2 or it's near cousin 4-4-1-1 working with this group of players and I am really concerned that Moore seems to be sticking with Brunt in Central midfield when it is plainly not working, this might be due to a lack of alternatives but it needs to be rethought.

I am trying very hard not to rush to judgement but I hope things evolve somewhat and also players settle down and start to focus once the window closes.
 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Westie on August 07, 2018, 11:13:22 PM
I think Darren Moore is a great bloke but he did not come across well in his interview, sad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: graka on August 07, 2018, 11:22:20 PM
Tactically inept for me
And we are still playing square pegs!!
Also 2 games in 4 days and he doesn't use the bench
If he can't see that central midfield is atrocious he needs sacking now
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: charlebaggie on August 07, 2018, 11:25:56 PM
I think Darren Moore is a great bloke but he did not come across well in his interview, sad.
.  I agree with your post.Ive been one of DM's adversaries but on that interview after the game. Well! I'm sorry Darren it's got to better than that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: CL3MO on August 07, 2018, 11:28:43 PM
Anybody else worried about that post-match interview?

Moore on the game. "You're always pleased to get off the mark. For a neutral it was a good game... This will be a difficult place for visiting teams to come. We had to be smart and shut the game down, we managed the occasion very well." (1/2)

Moore: "We stifled them and then we get a sucker punch with the goal that took a deflection. The response by the players was excellent... We need to adapt to this league. There were slight signs today, but we're nowhere near the finished article." (2/2)

The bits in bold make me shudder. WE should be the team that others look to stifle. Fans have not bought their season tickets in their droves and become extremely excited about what the season holds to watch a team, full of talent, to 'stifle' other teams. Be 'respectful', at times, yes, but not stifle.

I love Big Dave but am I worried about his plans for the team this season? Yes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 07, 2018, 11:37:15 PM
Anybody else worried about that post-match interview?

Moore on the game. "You're always pleased to get off the mark. For a neutral it was a good game... This will be a difficult place for visiting teams to come. We had to be smart and shut the game down, we managed the occasion very well." (1/2)

Moore: "We stifled them and then we get a sucker punch with the goal that took a deflection. The response by the players was excellent... We need to adapt to this league. There were slight signs today, but we're nowhere near the finished article." (2/2)

The bits in bold make me shudder. WE should be the team that others look to stifle. Fans have not bought their season tickets in their droves and become extremely excited about what the season holds to watch a team, full of talent, to 'stifle' other teams. Be 'respectful', at times, yes, but not stifle.
I agree regarding your concerns about us setting up to do this, but we didn't stifle them and they had us on the back foot for long periods. When Darren was appointed, I thought the days of hearing our managers giving rose-tinted post-match interviews had gone, but it sadly appears not.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: alex1 on August 07, 2018, 11:44:51 PM
Darren is a respectful man, but he's over doing the praise for the likes of Bolton and Forest. I can see him doing that to every team in the league. We have come from the Prem league, playing the likes of Man U and Spurs, have the greater resources and we should be setting out to win all our games at this level, home and away.
I'm afraid on the evidence of the last 2 games, we are at nowher like the level we should be. There's a helluva lot of work to do on the training ground. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 07, 2018, 11:49:46 PM
The first 5 or 6 games will be a grind, anyone who thought he would transform us into some Barca like machine in 3 months needs a reality check. I've watched every live game available and we look by far the most threatening team in the division going forward. The defence is a shambles with Hegazi and Gibbs being badly let down by Bartley and both right backs that have played. Johnstone was better tonight than Saturday but is still rooted to his line. I feel Livermore is the problem with the central midfield as opposed to Brunt but that's just me. Morrison looked short of sharpness but showed some clever touches. Phillips has been excellent and Barnes was excellent on Saturday but poor tonight (awful miss too). Rodriguez and HRK are not interested and not good enough respectively. Rodriguez should have buried those chances tonight especially the 2nd one. Gayle looked lively and displayed a much better touch than I was expecting, he also should have scored tonight.


All in all the negativity towards Moore at such an early stage is totally over the top. We need the window to shut so he knows what he's got to work with, we need Field fit imo to replace Livermore and we need to sell and replace Rodriguez. Dawson coming back into the fold (strictly as a centre back) would be great also. Give the coaching team a bit of time to work together Moore, Jones, Shan and Cutler and lets see what happens.


#WeNotMe
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 08, 2018, 12:00:11 AM
Wanted him, but now..thank you and good night.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 08, 2018, 12:05:32 AM
Wanted him, but now..thank you and good night.


Incredible.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on August 08, 2018, 12:06:59 AM
Looked like Jones took over from sideline when Gale came on and even shook Forests managers first after game. Could it be player's are trying to jump ship before window shuts because of a naive head coach. Love for Darren to prove me wrong but pre and post match interviews he comes across  poorly.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on August 08, 2018, 12:09:16 AM
Wanted him, but now..thank you and good night.

Come on mukka, Not in the slightest has it been the start that can give us any hope in fact the opposite can be said but to call  for his head is a no no for me. It's not all his fault
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: CL3MO on August 08, 2018, 12:18:06 AM
I just cannot fathom the Brunt-Livermore partnership. If other teams get legs around them then we're screwed from the first whistle. I really hope DM can see this - like literally every other fan can.

I thought it was telling tonight how confused each and every pundit was with our tactics and general game plan. It's worrying and I hope it's something that we're not going to go to Norwich and do...

I also agree with you Jacko about getting Sam Field in the team, when fit, but do you honestly think DM will put him in the team, in place of Livermore or Brunty? Can't see it myself.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on August 08, 2018, 02:04:44 AM
Wanted Smith but have backed Moore and will continue too despite a rocky start. I don’t think people realise how long it will take to change things. There was a malaise that set in and it will take time. Squad wise he inherited some good footballers but a lopsided squad. I personally don’t think Moore has been backed in the transfer market and we want to shift some players on but has anyone bid for them? Livermore, Nyom, Hegazi and Gibbs have been mentioned but no concrete offers or credible rumours. Dawson and Chadli haven’t been available yet.
We also ended last season with Livermore, Barry, Field, Morrison, Yacob and Greg (loan) as our central midfield options...so much variety there ;)
I agree with the midfield comments 100% but for me it will take 2 maybe 3 windows to sort out the mess.
Someone said Moore makes his 7th signing with Gayle (3 were goalkeepers) and 2 were loan signings.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on August 08, 2018, 06:01:23 AM
Two games , lots of change, players wanting out, only got an assistant last week, no DoF sonrunning transfers more himself (imagine the time calls, meetings research , admin takes to the detriment of training). We’ll know more 15 games after the window is shut . Jones could be a key appointment and one which bolsters BDs inexperience/ lack of technical experience as a coach. Let’s wait and see for a bit Jones and Darren Moore together could be good!?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VVVAlbion on August 08, 2018, 06:54:12 AM
For me the comments from David Johnson spoke volumes. He was shocked that our tactics were to soak up away from home with the quality we have. Early days but there is much to be concerned about with Moore. I said I would back him and I will but this needs to improve and quickly. He must sort out the middle of the park as a matter of urgency.
He did equally say we should have scored more goals and pointed out we hit the woodwork on four occasions and could have won the game  ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VVVAlbion on August 08, 2018, 07:08:59 AM
Away from home at one of the title favourites and people are surprised that the tactic was to stifle the opposition before pushing on to get a winner. Pretty much standard fare up and down the leagues (arguably boring, but fairly common even with experienced coaches). It wasn't pretty but it resulted in very few chances for the home team and was forcing them to shoot from 40 yards which should have been comfortable.  We created far better opportunities. As to the pundit not understanding our game plan, easy target for Dingle Don to claim against an inexperienced coach and a bandwagon for Sky (and our own support)to jump on. Our team have played together for less than 180 minutes in competitive football and some aren't as good as we think. It'll take more than two games to sort out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on August 08, 2018, 07:15:12 AM
Wanted him, but now..thank you and good night.

Unbelievable comment.....

Good job Manchester United were not of the same mindset when they hired some scottish bloke.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on August 08, 2018, 07:47:17 AM
We will get a clearer picture in a few games time, when Moore will hopefully have Dawson, Chadli, Field and a couple of new signings available, but this start has not been good.

It always worries me when a manager comes in and says "I don't have a footballing philosophy". Di Matteo said the same, and while he did get us promotion, he has since gone on to show that he hasn't quite got enough to last as a manager having been sacked by us, Chelsea and Villa following poor league results.

A coach working in the game for a few years should have an idea how he wants the game to be played, be that defensive like Pulis, passing like Cruyff/Guardiola or fast pressing like Klopp/Bielsa.

When somebody comes in and says "I do 't have a philosophy", it just gives me the impression that they aren't particularly football thinkers, but more and more successful managers nowadays are and you can just be out thought if you don't really havr an opinion on tactics. Anyone can come in and make it up as they go along. We need more than that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: bigwigjack on August 08, 2018, 07:48:56 AM
Think some comments are harsh at best, down right ridiculous at worst. I think not sorting out the backroom staff  till late on is affecting us. Jones has probably only had  1 or 2 sessions with the team. You can see he is trying to influence things, and help Darren Moore.

To be calling for his head is ridiculous. Once Thursday is out the way, so we know what we have and can settle, and he has had a run of games, then it's time to judge.

Everyone expecting miracles is crazy, he braught the club back together, at least give him the decency of a fair crack at it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Smethwickender93 on August 08, 2018, 08:08:46 AM
I love Big Dave and will continue to back him but it just feels we have put a Sunday league manager in charge of the same set of players that got us relegated last season.

Players are unsure what there jobs are and with Darren Moore shouting things from the touch line like ‘defend’ and ‘you’ve got to work’ just reminds me of my playing days (which was a poor standard)

It’s the body language of the players that’s worrying me. I was looking forward to the championship with us having a reshuffle but I’m not convinced with this set of players and management.

Maybe that point last night is what we need to kickstart our season with a couple of additions.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 08, 2018, 08:24:11 AM
Unbelievable comment.....

Good job Manchester United were not of the same mindset when they hired some scottish bloke.

...some Scottish bloke who had won 3 league titles back when Scotland was a viable league, 4 Scottish Cups, 1 Scottish League Cup, the Cup Winners Cup and the European Super Cup  :o :-X
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 08, 2018, 10:05:10 AM
Sheff Utd pointless; some wanted wilder here. Not once have I seen people call for
Him to be sacked. One of the pre season favs. And it's actually his squad
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 08, 2018, 10:05:55 AM
hes got all the time in the world. just pass the ball to feet a bit more Darren, theres a good chap
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 08, 2018, 10:15:03 AM
"Droitchwitch" says it all. Has anyone actually been? They look down on normal people as peasents.

I actually can't believe people are actually calling him to go. It's 2 games and are currently in a switch over period. I think some fans really want him to fail and for us to get relegated so they can say told you so ....

Had my fill of that with us keeping Pulis on and it ending exactly as I predicted it would.

I believe everyone is of the same mind when it comes to Darren, that we are longing for it to be a success as we all love the bloke, but we can see already that he just is not up to the job. I was openly vehement at the time in not wanting him to be appointed and was in the minority at that point, but I have seen nothing thus far to dispel all the doubts I had about him in the job, he can't even get the name of the opponents ground correct.

If we started the season playing an attractive and effective brand of football I would be turning round my opinions, but the facts are that we are not and he is not addressing the problems that are patently obvious for all to see and ultimately it is his job to do that.

Sadly even if he were to go, I do not think Dean Smith would come here now so we end up in a position just like we did last season whereby we are scrambling round in the dark for a new manager because yet again the decisions made by those paid infinitely more than I am were so badly wrong.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on August 08, 2018, 10:33:42 AM
We are in a changeover period, the team that started yesterday wont be the one that starts in 2/3 weeks time.

We looked a different prospect when Gayle came on, higher up the pitch, more players in and around the box, Barnes drifting in, Phillips causing problems. I also seemed to note that Jones took more of a front foot in the technical area during that period.

The first half (apart from the first 5 minutes) we had no idea of the formation/set up or what we were meant to be doing. We rode our luck at times but that's football.

I'll reserve judgement until I see what business happens with incoming/outgoings today and tomorrow.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 08, 2018, 10:42:29 AM
But how can you want someone out after 2 games ?

It's not FIFA or football manager. We have our future at stake. Who the **** would want to come here after we sacked Moore after a couple of games
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 08, 2018, 10:54:16 AM
But how can you want someone out after 2 games ?

It's not FIFA or football manager. We have our future at stake. Who the **** would want to come here after we sacked Moore after a couple of games

I don't think anyone is truly calling for his head right now, I am just assuming a great number of people are just wishing we hadn't made the mistake in the first place. It was obvious that this is what would happen. All we can hope now is that the influence of Jones becomes more and more to the point whereby Darren's role becomes more limited and, combine that with the fact our squad is amongst the best in the league, results and performances naturally start to improve.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on August 08, 2018, 10:57:14 AM
Personally i dont want him sacked, think would be madness!

I think everyone wants Big Dave to succeed, and as others have said its still very early, i think around the 8-10-12 game mark is when we will get a good idea of how things are shaping up.

That said its normal after matches for us all to reflect and from what i have seen so far, i am far from impressed.

I know people say it will take a long time to change and i agree to an extent but i wonder what has been done in preseason because the last two games have been textbook performances from the last 18 months, with the exception of 5 minutes at the end last night.

I thought last night it was the players maybe being a bit cowardly by being so negative (and i think it was partly that) but when Big Dave said after we set out to stifle i didnt think that was a great sign.

Forest were decent, a lot better than us last night but they are nothing special, we have far superior players on paper to most teams in this league (yes that dreaded word 'on paper') and i would hope we will be taking the game to teams, at tempo, and stamping our superiority.

Thats not arrogance, our squad on paper (again!) should not have got relegated last season, however we setup most games not to lose for the last few seasons and by February 2017 the malaise had set in, the players are to blame but also our approach of being so cautious and negative eventually had its day.

We now have the chance to reverse that, i am hoping last nights approach was to just get points on the board and then from saturday we start playing like we did the last 5 minutes when we played higher up the pitch, added more tempo and started looking like the team we could be.

Worth noting too that Jones has probably only had three sessions with the team, i would imagine as an experienced assistant he will be saying to Big Dave we need to get on the front foot and raise the tempo from the off, if we do with attacking players like - Gayle, Barnes, Morrison, Phillips, Burke, Jrod (possibly) plus maybe one or two others to come in, most teams wont live with us, but we have to be positive, the last few seasons negative stuff has gone, this is a fresh start and Big Dave and the players should be embracing it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on August 08, 2018, 10:58:46 AM
Had my fill of that with us keeping Pulis on and it ending exactly as I predicted it would.

I believe everyone is of the same mind when it comes to Darren, that we are longing for it to be a success as we all love the bloke, but we can see already that he just is not up to the job. I was openly vehement at the time in not wanting him to be appointed and was in the minority at that point, but I have seen nothing thus far to dispel all the doubts I had about him in the job, he can't even get the name of the opponents ground correct.

If we started the season playing an attractive and effective brand of football I would be turning round my opinions, but the facts are that we are not and he is not addressing the problems that are patently obvious for all to see and ultimately it is his job to do that.

Sadly even if he were to go, I do not think Dean Smith would come here now so we end up in a position just like we did last season whereby we are scrambling round in the dark for a new manager because yet again the decisions made by those paid infinitely more than I am were so badly wrong.

You seem to be dismissing the impact that Graeme Jones will have.

GJ has been here for less than a week, I believe he will have a massive impact on how we play going forward.

When we went a goal behind last night, he seemed to take the game by the scruff of the neck & I'm pretty sure it was his decision to bring Gayle on.

I'm not convinced Darren Moore, on his own, will succeed, but with GJ's pedigree, I'm prepared to give the pair a chance.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on August 08, 2018, 11:02:17 AM
Just to play devils advocate aswell, although for large parts Forest were better on the ball than us, I can only recall the ambitious shot that Johnstone really had to save (other than routine stops).

Gayle should arguably have scored.
Barnes should have scored.
The follow up from Barnes shot ( I believe it was JRod) probably should have scored.

We had better chances to win the game in my opinion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on August 08, 2018, 11:19:02 AM
Just to play devils advocate aswell, although for large parts Forest were better on the ball than us, I can only recall the ambitious shot that Johnstone really had to save (other than routine stops).

Gayle should arguably have scored.
Barnes should have scored.
The follow up from Barnes shot ( I believe it was JRod) probably should have scored.

We had better chances to win the game in my opinion.
We did indeed but they had a few good openings that they stuffed up to be honest and allowed our defence to regroup.
If we can replace both fullbacks, drop Brunt and Livermore (or, at worst, at least one of them) I think between them Jones and Moore will get us creating chances and with Phillips, Barnes and Gayle up top we will start winning games. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wigmore on August 08, 2018, 11:28:38 AM
I believe everyone is of the same mind when it comes to Darren, that we are longing for it to be a success as we all love the bloke, but we can see already that he just is not up to the job. I was openly vehement at the time in not wanting him to be appointed and was in the minority at that point, but I have seen nothing thus far to dispel all the doubts I had about him in the job, he can't even get the name of the opponents ground correct.

If we started the season playing an attractive and effective brand of football I would be turning round my opinions, but the facts are that we are not and he is not addressing the problems that are patently obvious for all to see and ultimately it is his job to do that.
Oh dear. If you really think that getting the opposition ground name wrong is some sort of capital offence, can I refer you to another Albion legend, who whilst a very successful manager, didn't get his own player's names right -BR.
After 180 minutes you appear to have written DM off as a failure. I think you need to develop a more sensible sense of proportion and timescale.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tylerm on August 08, 2018, 11:52:33 AM
Personally i dont want him sacked, think would be madness!

I think everyone wants Big Dave to succeed, and as others have said its still very early, i think around the 8-10-12 game mark is when we will get a good idea of how things are shaping up.

That said its normal after matches for us all to reflect and from what i have seen so far, i am far from impressed.

I know people say it will take a long time to change and i agree to an extent but i wonder what has been done in preseason because the last two games have been textbook performances from the last 18 months, with the exception of 5 minutes at the end last night.

I thought last night it was the players maybe being a bit cowardly by being so negative (and i think it was partly that) but when Big Dave said after we set out to stifle i didnt think that was a great sign.

Forest were decent, a lot better than us last night but they are nothing special, we have far superior players on paper to most teams in this league (yes that dreaded word 'on paper') and i would hope we will be taking the game to teams, at tempo, and stamping our superiority.

Thats not arrogance, our squad on paper (again!) should not have got relegated last season, however we setup most games not to lose for the last few seasons and by February 2017 the malaise had set in, the players are to blame but also our approach of being so cautious and negative eventually had its day.

We now have the chance to reverse that, i am hoping last nights approach was to just get points on the board and then from saturday we start playing like we did the last 5 minutes when we played higher up the pitch, added more tempo and started looking like the team we could be.

Worth noting too that Jones has probably only had three sessions with the team, i would imagine as an experienced assistant he will be saying to Big Dave we need to get on the front foot and raise the tempo from the off, if we do with attacking players like - Gayle, Barnes, Morrison, Phillips, Burke, Jrod (possibly) plus maybe one or two others to come in, most teams wont live with us, but we have to be positive, the last few seasons negative stuff has gone, this is a fresh start and Big Dave and the players should be embracing it.

My thoughts too
The last 6 games of last season we reverted back to a TP style of play and Darren said that this was the system that the players were comfortable with. It worked well, but that containing style always worked well against the better sides. It was a style that was useless to break sides down. My worry when he was appointed was that he would continue with this style of play. However our mentality this year has to be to win games and not solely to stifle other teams.
So far all I have seen is a continuation of the TP style and we will go nowhere with this approach. Brunt is aweful as a central midfielder and both him and Livermore sitting just infront of the back four wont get us promoted. Darren needs to change quickly and adopt an approach to take games to other teams. If not I stand by my prediction that he wont be here in October.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 08, 2018, 12:10:39 PM
Oh dear. If you really think that getting the opposition ground name wrong is some sort of capital offence, can I refer you to another Albion legend, who whilst a very successful manager, didn't get his own player's names right -BR.
After 180 minutes you appear to have written DM off as a failure. I think you need to develop a more sensible sense of proportion and timescale.

It was just another thing that epitomised the issue that we have with him, which is on top of the numerous weeks of cliches that he has spouted without giving any form of insight.

Time will tell ultimately, but we have been given nothing from him thus far that lends itself to demonstrating that he has the tactical acumen to be in such a huge job in football. I am praying that things start to improve with Jones in place and that we get better on the pitch in spite of Darren's limitations.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on August 08, 2018, 12:20:27 PM
It was just another thing that epitomised the issue that we have with him, which is on top of the numerous weeks of cliches that he has spouted without giving any form of insight.

Time will tell ultimately, but we have been given nothing from him thus far that lends itself to demonstrating that he has the tactical acumen to be in such a huge job in football. I am praying that things start to improve with Jones in place and that we get better on the pitch in spite of Darren's limitations.

I'm not that bothered if DM isn't a tactical genius, IF he surrounds himself with people who are. I see DM as the motivator and manager and his coaching staff (GJ in particular) as the tactician. The guys haven't worked together for a week yet and people are getting upset (polite), for god sake lets get some perspective chaps.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Signor_Maresca on August 08, 2018, 12:24:41 PM
His post match comments are slightly concerning, saying that we executed our game plan and were unlucky in that we conceded a sucker punch goal...   Well if the game plan was to be completely outplayed and for our midfield to be dominated then it worked well and their goal was no sucker punch, they were well on top and worthy of their lead.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: MarkW on August 08, 2018, 12:29:24 PM
You seem to be dismissing the impact that Graeme Jones will have.

GJ has been here for less than a week, I believe he will have a massive impact on how we play going forward.

When we went a goal behind last night, he seemed to take the game by the scruff of the neck & I'm pretty sure it was his decision to bring Gayle on.

I'm not convinced Darren Moore, on his own, will succeed, but with GJ's pedigree, I'm prepared to give the pair a chance.

Gayle was recalled from his warm-up before Forest scored. It was GJ that recalled him, but that is a normal job for an assistant
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggies_24 on August 08, 2018, 12:54:07 PM
His post match comments are slightly concerning, saying that we executed our game plan and were unlucky in that we conceded a sucker punch goal...   Well if the game plan was to be completely outplayed and for our midfield to be dominated then it worked well and their goal was no sucker punch, they were well on top and worthy of their lead.

Another thing that alarmed me was when he said he changed the shape the last 15, everything seems to be a reaction rather than been on the front foot and making the opposition react to what we are doing, why was the shape not changed after 20 minutes when it was clear we were getting completely overrun in midfield.

The team put out last night financially & talent wise should better than the team Forest played yet it was men against boys for 82 minutes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: crocodile007 on August 08, 2018, 01:36:51 PM
I honestly have never wanted a manager to succeed more in my life but sadly I think this will end in tears. I have no doubt that Darren has the passion but everything I have seen/heard from him sound and look like a guy thankful to be in this position and I think that gratefulness is paralysing him with fear. Fear to try something new (Pulis type tactics), fear to make early/more substitutions, fear to speak in anything other than tired cliches. I think he was so desperate to get off the mark last night that he forgot that on balance we should be able to beat Forrest.
I think i'll be in the minority here but even that email we all received that was largely praised by most gave me pause for concern. In my opinion it sounded like something a fan would write if given the chance to manage the club. It came across to me very much like "c'mon guys, I need all your help. I need everyone to be with me, we are in this together, thank you for having me" - I would much have preferred someone who was quietly confident in his own ability. I know people might disagree and don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with an email from the manager ahead of the new season but the content just sounded a bit desperate - almost like trying too hard to please if that makes sense?
My overriding feeling at the moment is that I love the bloke and love his passion but at the same time feel sorry for him and the fact that I feel sorry for him suggests to me that something isn't right. I just feel like a nice guy has been thrown into the deep end and, at present, is looking every bit the novice and at times even coming across a little foolish/simple?
I wouldn't want him sacked or anything like that but at the same time i would only give him the first 10 games and if we are not towards the top end of the table or without clear improvement I would make the change. No one person is worth sacrificing the long term future of the club. I hope i'm wrong.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 08, 2018, 01:45:25 PM
I don't think anyone is truly calling for his head right now, I am just assuming a great number of people are just wishing we hadn't made the mistake in the first place. It was obvious that this is what would happen. All we can hope now is that the influence of Jones becomes more and more to the point whereby Darren's role becomes more limited and, combine that with the fact our squad is amongst the best in the league, results and performances naturally start to improve.


Brilliant... So after the window closes and the squad is settled and we take our place at the top of the table it'll be in spite of Darren.


Priceless.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 08, 2018, 01:48:27 PM
Just to play devils advocate aswell, although for large parts Forest were better on the ball than us, I can only recall the ambitious shot that Johnstone really had to save (other than routine stops).
Forest had a number of clear chances, but they had no composure in front of goal and their finishing was abysmal.

To go back on topic, Darren's not a great orator, so his pre and post-match interviews aren't likely to be the best. What I do expect from him as a minimum is truthfulness about our performances though.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 08, 2018, 01:55:47 PM
Forest had a number of clear chances, but they had no composure in front of goal and their finishing was abysmal.

To go back on topic, Darren's not a great orator, so his pre and post-match interviews aren't likely to be the best. What I do expect from him as a minimum is truthfulness about our performances though.


Not to be rude but he sounds thick. Full of cliches. Nothing insightful, like he's reading from a script.

I'm not going to lie, I hope Graeme Jones takes a more leading role. I really fear for us if not.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: j2burnz on August 08, 2018, 01:56:57 PM
I am frankly astonished at the treatment so far of Moore.

If a guy had swooped in last season from Italy named Guiseppie Le Vazzio to make the Big Dave did the masses would not be making the noises so many are making already.

He is a victim of being a relative novice and not being the most articulate speaker as much as anything.

Please think back to what he actually did last season when we were the laughing stock of the entire of English Football.

Its game 2 and we have a lot of turbulence around the playing squad yes, we got a bloodied nose against a side we should be taking care of at home.

We then go to a TOP side in the division and get outplayed for the most part but rally to the point we actually can count ourselves unlucky not to win. Very unlucky.

He clearly addressed some issues from the 1st game ( Nyom, HRK, Including ,Mozza - shape ) and showed hes not a stubborn so and so.

If a side and manager has ever needed time in my 25 years supporting the Albion it is this 1.

For the love of god, will the so called supporters already belly aching saying its all a big mistake appointing Moore give him the chance he so clearly deserves.

If we are well outside the top 6 at Christmas there will be a cause for concern but until then get behind your club and the manager that put the pride back into us.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ashdoy on August 08, 2018, 02:04:39 PM
Time will tell on Moore.

People have to remember just how bad this squad is. Pulis created it, Pardew crippled it, Moore is trying to revive it.

The lack of balance within the squad is shocking. To have 5 first team central midfielders but none with any real creative spark (not one of them can dribble with the ball in the mould of a Koumas or Dorrans). Not one of them is a true box to box in the mould of a Mulumbu. Not one of them is a Yacob style enforcer. Normally from 5 midfielders you'd have 2 or 3 who fit within our current crops attributes, but the others would/should be a specific enforcer/playmaker.

Our full backs arent good enough. Again, none of them have a clear style of play. None of them provide any kind of brilliant distribution, none have blistering pace for an overlap.

The forwards (taking out Gayle), again, what are they actually good at? What are their styles of play?

We have no target man, we have no on the shoulder CF who can burn away a defence. We have no Kevin Phillips style poacher.

All we have are a couple of decent wingers, but if we know this, then you can bet the world the opposition do. Stop our wingers, you stop Albion.

Teams will allow Brunt, Barry, Livermore, Field and Morrison all the time in the world to play sidways passes as none of them will travel forward and score a worldie like Koumas or Dorrans could. Because of this we are limited. Our wingers are marked, the full backs dont want the ball which forces us long onto forwards who arent target men or cant run in behind.

The end result is the appaling displays we have seen.

But this is not Moore to blame; its 3 or 4 succesive windows without improving the balance of the squad or looking towards a real future. Not one player has been brought into the club who we can fully build the team around.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on August 08, 2018, 02:07:41 PM
He wanted, and therefore waited for, Jones right from the off and there has to be a reason for that. I think DM knows his limitations but also knows that Jones strengths counter his own weaknesses.
Moore proved last season that he can organise and galvanise, not just the team, but the club, so he obviously has mettle, what he does lack though is tactical awareness and that vision to change and adapt. Hopefully this will prove to be Jones' area of expertise. If it does they could be a force to be reckoned with but it may take time.
I for one am willing to be patient and give the partnership chance to grow and flourish.
As for the press stuff, it is a bit cringey, but it's something that's relatively new to him and that he will also grow into.
At the minute, what happens on the pitch is all important and that needs to improve sharpish, starting with the end of the Brunt as CM experiment. Come on Darren, it doesn't work, find an alternative and move on!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mr Cynical on August 08, 2018, 02:16:06 PM
I'm with j2burnz.  I can't believe how many only/spoilt kids there are posting on here.  People expecting the finished product for the first game of the season, while the transfer window is a massive distraction.  Moore is doing (and has been doing) much more than his own job.  Jones' arrival will definitely help with the coaching, but no DoF must mean he is spending a lot of time on transfers that wouldn't be necessary in normal circumstances.

We are in transition both in trems of style of play and personnel.  We have to be patient.

There are many, completely reasonable criticisms about how we've played and the use of substitutions too.  The centre of midfield is a big concern for me - but there aren't that many options today.  If he'd have picked Barry and Harper then we'd have the same problem.  In fact the only part of the squad that I'm fully satisfied with is the wide players. 

The club have selected Darren Moore and we must give him a chance to get things right and succeed, not say he needs to go after two games.  That is completely ridiculous.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 08, 2018, 02:20:53 PM

Brilliant... So after the window closes and the squad is settled and we take our place at the top of the table it'll be in spite of Darren.


Priceless.

I'm sure the true catalyst will be your man, Brunty  ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 08, 2018, 02:32:45 PM
Lets be brutally honest here. Darren Moore got the job because results up turned at the end of the season and because certain people like Kevin Campbell came out and basically called the club racist if we didn't appoint him. The owners caved in, didn't have the bottle to stand up and say no.

Now everyone can be up in arms and throw insults about and all the rest but that is the bottom line.

Is this off topic? No not really because this is a massive period for Albion. Dean Smith or Graham Potter should've been given the gig. Instead we have a manager with NO experience whatsoever who basically got results by defending deep and riding his luck and snatching the odd set piece vs Man United, Liverpool and Spurs.

Totally different ball game this season and so far, predictably, Darren doesn't look as though he knows what he's doing.

I hope he proves me wrong (obviously because it's all the better for Albion) but I find him unintelligent, cliched (as learned) and totally noneffective.

Go on Big Dave prove me wrong ........... please!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on August 08, 2018, 02:47:47 PM
Lets be brutally honest here. Darren Moore got the job because results up turned at the end of the season and because certain people like Kevin Campbell came out and basically called the club racist if we didn't appoint him. The owners caved in, didn't have the bottle to stand up and say no.

Now everyone can be up in arms and throw insults about and all the rest but that is the bottom line.

Is this off topic? No not really because this is a massive period for Albion. Dean Smith or Graham Potter should've been given the gig. Instead we have a manager with NO experience whatsoever who basically got results by defending deep and riding his luck and snatching the odd set piece vs Man United, Liverpool and Spurs.

Totally different ball game this season and so far, predictably, Darren doesn't look as though he knows what he's doing.

I hope he proves me wrong (obviously because it's all the better for Albion) but I find him unintelligent, cliched (as learned) and totally noneffective.

Go on Big Dave prove me wrong ........... please!

Pretty much my thoughts. I said months ago I didn't think Darren Moore was a manager. I've also really wanted to avoid calling him unintelligent because he is such a nice and genuine bloke but I do agree.

We need people like him within the club, so it is also shame if or when it is eventually over we will lose his personality and character from the Albion. He definitely had roles at the club he could have been great in, but I don't think it was/ is as a head coach.

Like you implied Atomic, I would absolutely love to be proven wrong.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 08, 2018, 02:52:41 PM
Pretty much my thoughts. I said months ago I didn't think Darren Moore was a manager. I've also really wanted to avoid calling him unintelligent because he is such a nice and genuine bloke but I do agree.

We need people like him within the club, so it is also shame if or when it is eventually over we will lose his personality and character from the Albion. He definitely had roles at the club he could have been great in, but I don't think it was/ is as a head coach.

Like you implied Atomic, I would absolutely love to be proven wrong.
Totally agree with that. Absolutely love the bloke but he's in the wrong role.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on August 08, 2018, 03:58:21 PM
People saying with our team we should be seeing off forest easily. Is our team that good? Comments that we have a proven premier league squad are a myth to my mind.
Gibbs, Livermore, Phillips, Rodriguez the only “proven” premier league players. Brunt and Morrison (past their best).
Dawson and Chadli would make a huge difference but haven’t been available.
Hegazi not good enough for prem not sure if he is a good championship player yet.
Johnston and Bartley too early to say for Albion but good reputations.
Barnes looks great but a young loan player who Leicester were happy to loan out.
Tosin young and raw.

Then bench of Myhill, Barry, Harper, HRK, Burke, Townsend, Gayle (quality champ player).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on August 08, 2018, 04:08:55 PM
Time will tell on Moore.

People have to remember just how bad this squad is. Pulis created it, Pardew crippled it, Moore is trying to revive it.

The lack of balance within the squad is shocking. To have 5 first team central midfielders but none with any real creative spark (not one of them can dribble with the ball in the mould of a Koumas or Dorrans). Not one of them is a true box to box in the mould of a Mulumbu. Not one of them is a Yacob style enforcer. Normally from 5 midfielders you'd have 2 or 3 who fit within our current crops attributes, but the others would/should be a specific enforcer/playmaker.

Our full backs arent good enough. Again, none of them have a clear style of play. None of them provide any kind of brilliant distribution, none have blistering pace for an overlap.

The forwards (taking out Gayle), again, what are they actually good at? What are their styles of play?

We have no target man, we have no on the shoulder CF who can burn away a defence. We have no Kevin Phillips style poacher.

All we have are a couple of decent wingers, but if we know this, then you can bet the world the opposition do. Stop our wingers, you stop Albion.

Teams will allow Brunt, Barry, Livermore, Field and Morrison all the time in the world to play sidways passes as none of them will travel forward and score a worldie like Koumas or Dorrans could. Because of this we are limited. Our wingers are marked, the full backs dont want the ball which forces us long onto forwards who arent target men or cant run in behind.

The end result is the appaling displays we have seen.

But this is not Moore to blame; its 3 or 4 succesive windows without improving the balance of the squad or looking towards a real future. Not one player has been brought into the club who we can fully build the team around.

That is spot on, I'll buy you a pint for that post, we need to back the Manager not jump on his back from the off!
Never thought Albion fans could react this poorly.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: shortybaggies on August 08, 2018, 04:21:07 PM
Oh dear. If you really think that getting the opposition ground name wrong is some sort of capital offence, can I refer you to another Albion legend, who whilst a very successful manager, didn't get his own player's names right -BR.
After 180 minutes you appear to have written DM off as a failure. I think you need to develop a more sensible sense of proportion and timescale.

I heard it call it the City Ground and that's what it's called isn't it?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on August 08, 2018, 04:24:15 PM

Not to be rude but he sounds thick. Full of cliches. Nothing insightful, like he's reading from a script.

I'm not going to lie, I hope Graeme Jones takes a more leading role. I really fear for us if not.
This is the crux of it. Ever since he was appointed it's just been standard football clichés with no real insight.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on August 08, 2018, 04:28:04 PM
Also, the fact our priority is now to sign a right back, rather than a central midfielder, adds further evidence to the fact that he's not the right man for the job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on August 08, 2018, 04:30:47 PM
Also, the fact our priority is now to sign a right back, rather than a central midfielder, adds further evidence to the fact that he's not the right man for the job.

Would you still have this view if Moore knows that Chadli is staying?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on August 08, 2018, 04:34:40 PM
Would you still have this view if Moore knows that Chadli is staying?
I think we need a deep lying playmaker (a bit like   Ryan Woods) and a box-to-box or ball-winning central midfielder (a bit like Mulumbu was for us), neither of which Chadli is - so yes.

Livermore, Brunt and Barry are clearly not up to the job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: smethwickw on August 08, 2018, 04:36:58 PM
Would you still have this view if Moore knows that Chadli is staying?

Would Chadli have bossed the game last night like Guedioura did last night? No he wouldn't. This is the kind of midfielder we need. Brunt has been way past his best for a few years now and Livermore is just awful.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: miggybaggy on August 08, 2018, 04:43:46 PM
Time will tell on Moore.

People have to remember just how bad this squad is. Pulis created it, Pardew crippled it, Moore is trying to revive it.

The lack of balance within the squad is shocking. To have 5 first team central midfielders but none with any real creative spark (not one of them can dribble with the ball in the mould of a Koumas or Dorrans). Not one of them is a true box to box in the mould of a Mulumbu. Not one of them is a Yacob style enforcer. Normally from 5 midfielders you'd have 2 or 3 who fit within our current crops attributes, but the others would/should be a specific enforcer/playmaker.

Our full backs arent good enough. Again, none of them have a clear style of play. None of them provide any kind of brilliant distribution, none have blistering pace for an overlap.

The forwards (taking out Gayle), again, what are they actually good at? What are their styles of play?

We have no target man, we have no on the shoulder CF who can burn away a defence. We have no Kevin Phillips style poacher.

All we have are a couple of decent wingers, but if we know this, then you can bet the world the opposition do. Stop our wingers, you stop Albion.

Teams will allow Brunt, Barry, Livermore, Field and Morrison all the time in the world to play sidways passes as none of them will travel forward and score a worldie like Koumas or Dorrans could. Because of this we are limited. Our wingers are marked, the full backs dont want the ball which forces us long onto forwards who arent target men or cant run in behind.

The end result is the appaling displays we have seen.

But this is not Moore to blame; its 3 or 4 succesive windows without improving the balance of the squad or looking towards a real future. Not one player has been brought into the club who we can fully build the team around.

Best post I've seen on here for a long time.

I'm not at all confident our board has a clue about even the basics of a football team whatsoever. Too may businessmen and 'suits' involved in the game nowadays due to insane amounts of cash available.

Putting the blame solely at the feet of Darren Moore is just downright unfair.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on August 08, 2018, 04:49:06 PM
Time will tell on Moore.

People have to remember just how bad this squad is. Pulis created it, Pardew crippled it, Moore is trying to revive it.

The lack of balance within the squad is shocking. To have 5 first team central midfielders but none with any real creative spark (not one of them can dribble with the ball in the mould of a Koumas or Dorrans). Not one of them is a true box to box in the mould of a Mulumbu. Not one of them is a Yacob style enforcer. Normally from 5 midfielders you'd have 2 or 3 who fit within our current crops attributes, but the others would/should be a specific enforcer/playmaker.

Our full backs arent good enough. Again, none of them have a clear style of play. None of them provide any kind of brilliant distribution, none have blistering pace for an overlap.

The forwards (taking out Gayle), again, what are they actually good at? What are their styles of play?

We have no target man, we have no on the shoulder CF who can burn away a defence. We have no Kevin Phillips style poacher.

All we have are a couple of decent wingers, but if we know this, then you can bet the world the opposition do. Stop our wingers, you stop Albion.

Teams will allow Brunt, Barry, Livermore, Field and Morrison all the time in the world to play sidways passes as none of them will travel forward and score a worldie like Koumas or Dorrans could. Because of this we are limited. Our wingers are marked, the full backs dont want the ball which forces us long onto forwards who arent target men or cant run in behind.

The end result is the appaling displays we have seen.

But this is not Moore to blame; its 3 or 4 succesive windows without improving the balance of the squad or looking towards a real future. Not one player has been brought into the club who we can fully build the team around.

Agreed - the knee jerk reactions are embarrassing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on August 08, 2018, 04:49:17 PM
Also, the fact our priority is now to sign a right back, rather than a central midfielder, adds further evidence to the fact that he's not the right man for the job.

But we do need a right back and a couple of midfielders. When was the last time we had a good / proper right back? Pulis played Dawson (CB) there and Nyom isn’t good enough (Pulis played him at left back) before that we had Gamboa (from what I can remember).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kie the baggie on August 08, 2018, 05:08:59 PM
Agreed - the knee jerk reactions are embarrassing.
Not knee jerk mate, in my opinion that performance yesterday I felt embarrassed, no link between defence and midfield. No link between right back and right mid. No link between midfield and strikers same on the left side. Defence all over the place. Aimless balls hit long to an isolated JRod. Couldnt string 2 passes together, then looking over to Darren Moore, he just looked confused and way out of his depth. I love Darren Moore he was one of my all time favourite players, but I have no confidence that he can put a team together with some sort of identity, and philosophy. I really hope he proves me wrong as I would love for him to succeed but just cant see it. Look at the managers in this division now. They are experienced, have game plans. Tactical awareness. I do not feel this is an over reaction. I would love for someone to explain to me what our style, philosophy or identity is going to be, I dont think even the players do
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 08, 2018, 05:15:23 PM
Not knee jerk mate, in my opinion that performance yesterday I felt embarrassed, no link between defence and midfield. No link between right back and right mid. No link between midfield and strikers same on the left side. Defence all over the place. Aimless balls hit long to an isolated JRod. Couldnt string 2 passes together, then looking over to Darren Moore, he just looked confused and way out of his depth. I love Darren Moore he was one of my all time favorite players, but I have no confidence that he can put a tram together with some sort of identity, and philosophy. I really hope he proves me wrong as I would love for him to succeed but just cant see it. Look at the managers in this division now. They are experienced, have game plans. Tactical awareness. I do not feel this is an over reaction. I would love for someone to explain to me what our style, philosophy or identity is going to be, I dont think even the players do

I think there's some good points there. Its not knee jerk to criticise and be concerned about things. We've just had pre-season with the majority of this squad taking part and so we should have some idea of what we're trying to achieve. Other than the static twosome in midfield which seem to be a permanent fixture the rest is hard to see.

I don't want to criticise Moore too much but he has to be culpable for some things that are not going right, he's not totally new to this, he had games at the end of last season with no pressure on him and got the job based on it, if its true he wanted to keep the majority of the squad that were gutless, poor and got us relegated then that has to be a concern. Was it the right man for the job or the cheap option ?

Yes, its early days and hopefully Jones coming in will help and make him see things that are not working, if these same issues are there in a few games times then serious questions needed to be asked about not just Moore but those above him as well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on August 08, 2018, 05:30:35 PM
I think there's some good points there. Its not knee jerk to criticise and be concerned about things. We've just had pre-season with the majority of this squad taking part and so we should have some idea of what we're trying to achieve. Other than the static twosome in midfield which seem to be a permanent fixture the rest is hard to see.

I don't want to criticise Moore too much but he has to be culpable for some things that are not going right, he's not totally new to this, he had games at the end of last season with no pressure on him and got the job based on it, if its true he wanted to keep the majority of the squad that were gutless, poor and got us relegated then that has to be a concern. Was it the right man for the job or the cheap option ?

Yes, its early days and hopefully Jones coming in will help and make him see things that are not working, if these same issues are there in a few games times then serious questions needed to be asked about not just Moore but those above him as well.

My point is that we have employed a young manager with no experience - and a good chunk of our fans were in support of this. Therefore its absolutely right that we stand by him as he finds his feet. I absolutely recognise some of the criticisms from the first two games but we appointed him knowing he is inexperienced and so we 100% have to support him.

To me this was always going to be the case so for people to start talking about sacking him is inexcusable in my opinion.

I also think there are many posters here who have either forgotten or never experienced the Championship. Most of my time supporting Albion has been in the Championship, and its one hell of a league. Three points is never a given and there are some talented managers in this league.

We must stick by him and be vocal in our support- I genuinely think that in a few matches time, with a settled squad and Jones by his side, we will start to see our identity.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on August 08, 2018, 05:30:39 PM
But we do need a right back and a couple of midfielders. When was the last time we had a good / proper right back? Pulis played Dawson (CB) there and Nyom isn’t good enough (Pulis played him at left back) before that we had Gamboa (from what I can remember).
Agreed - but we're much more desperate for central midfielders than a right back - that's what caused Forest to dominate the game, and why we failed to break down Bolton.

A failure to control midfield is a fundamental problem that will ultimately prevent us from winning enough games to mount a promotion challenge if unaddressed.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: vrabbit on August 08, 2018, 05:34:25 PM
too many Pulis fingerprints still all over the roster, which may not necessarily be DM's fault, but some Pulis-like decisions are definitely a red flag. Dawson at RB is one thing, but 6'5" Adarabioyo at RB is the kind of square-peg-in-a-round-hole decision that comes straight from the Pulis book. Add to that the team's inability to find an identity going forward (and even worse, not having as strong of an identity defensively) and Big Dave definitely needs to come up with some changes SOON
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 08, 2018, 05:36:19 PM
My point is that we have employed a young manager with no experience - and a good chunk of our fans were in support of this. Therefore its absolutely right that we stand by him as he finds his feet. I absolutely recognise some of the criticisms from the first two days but we appointed him knowing he is inexperienced and so we 100% have to support him.

To me this was always going to be the case so for people to start talking about sacking him is inexcusable in my opinion.

I also think there are many posters here who have either forgotten or never experienced the Championship. Most of my time supporting Albion has been in the Championship, and its one hell of a league. Three points is never a given and there are some talented managers in this league.

We must stick by him and be vocal in our support- I genuinely think that in a few matches time, with a settled squad and Jones by his side, we will start to see our identity.

I don't join the sack him brigade but inexperienced or not he has to learn quickly, its not a game for sentiment anymore. If this was as someone said an Italian coach named whatever people would also be questioning things, we've got some experienced players in this squad who last season got us relegated and instead of a kick up the back side it seems to drifting back toward a bit of a comfortable place again when no-one should be guaranteed a shirt, not one of them.

I remember the Championship and to be honest its changed a lot since we were last there, more competitive and these players and coaching staff have to get to grips with it asap.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on August 08, 2018, 05:48:23 PM
I don't join the sack him brigade but inexperienced or not he has to learn quickly, its not a game for sentiment anymore. If this was as someone said an Italian coach named whatever people would also be questioning things, we've got some experienced players in this squad who last season got us relegated and instead of a kick up the back side it seems to drifting back toward a bit of a comfortable place again when no-one should be guaranteed a shirt, not one of them.

I remember the Championship and to be honest its changed a lot since we were last there, more competitive and these players and coaching staff have to get to grips with it asap.

Yep - fair enough. I guess my view is that he needs to pick teams, try formations etc so he can see what works and what doesn't together with Jones.Lets not forget that he's inherited a squad from Pulis where creativity and movement was actively discouraged for organisation and power, and as a result we have a midfield choc full of heavily paid and experienced defensive midfielders.

Looking at the last 6 games last season - it seemed to me that bringing Brunt into midfield worked. Looking at this season it looks like it doesn't work so well. Its what Moore does about it that's important and we need to give him time to make those decisions - we've only played two games.

Its why I'll be really interested to see how the team settles down over the next few matches once the window has closed. A combative and energetic midfielder could really change our starting eleven.

However if in 4 or 5 games we have the same static midfield and the ball in the air more than in the ground then I will join everyone and have a right old panic - but in the meantime I think its important that this forum doesn't boil itself up into a frenzy.

I'm still far prouder of what we are trying to than i have been at any point probably since Hodgson left.

For the record a midfield of Woods, Chadli, that Turkish fella, with Phillips and Barnes on the wings would do me a treat.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Paulsammax on August 08, 2018, 06:20:24 PM
I think we need to put things into some perspective here. Darren Moore inherited a squad of players that on paper looked fine but at least a season of pretty incompetent management from Pulis and especially Pardew can't be turned around overnight.
So we got relegated. Players obviously would rather move to clubs who can match their pre relegation wages (why wouldn't they?). Therefore there is still a fair bit of uncertainty around who is staying and who is leaving. Moore sensibly is being cautious with these players as they are unlikely to give their all and risk an injury calling a halt to their chances of a transfer.  Where players have left then he has signed strong replacements but they need time to play as a team.
People are moaning about loan signings. For me it makes sense. As a club we don't want to commit to buying a player who might not cut it in the premier league and therefore is a liability should we get promoted. Similarly players like Barnes would never come to us on a permanent basis in a month of Sunday's whilst we are in the championship. But if we get promoted then of course things may change.
I keep hearing that we should play the kids. When the team is as it is, it is absolutely the wrong time to bring them in. If the crowd get on their backs they are not experienced enough to deal with it. And let's face it even the best players did not walk into a team and become the finished article (remember Christian Ronaldo at the Hawthorns in the league cup?). I recall Scott Darton. When he was picked people were saying great - giving he kids a chance. He had a couple of mares in a struggling team and the fans made him the scapegoat and pretty much destroyed his career.
Finally if we expect to go to Forest who are potentially doing a dingles and expect to play them off the park then that level of arrogance belongs at Villa Park.
Rant over!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on August 08, 2018, 06:26:55 PM
I think we need to put things into some perspective here. Darren Moore inherited a squad of players that on paper looked fine but at least a season of pretty incompetent management from Pulis and especially Pardew can't be turned around overnight.
So we got relegated. Players obviously would rather move to clubs who can match their pre relegation wages (why wouldn't they?). Therefore there is still a fair bit of uncertainty around who is staying and who is leaving. Moore sensibly is being cautious with these players as they are unlikely to give their all and risk an injury calling a halt to their chances of a transfer.  Where players have left then he has signed strong replacements but they need time to play as a team.
People are moaning about loan signings. For me it makes sense. As a club we don't want to commit to buying a player who might not cut it in the premier league and therefore is a liability should we get promoted. Similarly players like Barnes would never come to us on a permanent basis in a month of Sunday's whilst we are in the championship. But if we get promoted then of course things may change.
I keep hearing that we should play the kids. When the team is as it is, it is absolutely the wrong time to bring them in. If the crowd get on their backs they are not experienced enough to deal with it. And let's face it even the best players did not walk into a team and become the finished article (remember Christian Ronaldo at the Hawthorns in the league cup?). I recall Scott Darton. When he was picked people were saying great - giving he kids a chance. He had a couple of mares in a struggling team and the fans made him the scapegoat and pretty much destroyed his career.
Finally if we expect to go to Forest who are potentially doing a dingles and expect to play them off the park then that level of arrogance belongs at Villa Park.
Rant over!

It wasn't a rant so much as a well balanced post.

Must try harder  ;D  ;) .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on August 08, 2018, 06:40:32 PM
I think we need to put things into some perspective here. Darren Moore inherited a squad of players that on paper looked fine but at least a season of pretty incompetent management from Pulis and especially Pardew can't be turned around overnight.
So we got relegated. Players obviously would rather move to clubs who can match their pre relegation wages (why wouldn't they?). Therefore there is still a fair bit of uncertainty around who is staying and who is leaving. Moore sensibly is being cautious with these players as they are unlikely to give their all and risk an injury calling a halt to their chances of a transfer.  Where players have left then he has signed strong replacements but they need time to play as a team.
People are moaning about loan signings. For me it makes sense. As a club we don't want to commit to buying a player who might not cut it in the premier league and therefore is a liability should we get promoted. Similarly players like Barnes would never come to us on a permanent basis in a month of Sunday's whilst we are in the championship. But if we get promoted then of course things may change.
I keep hearing that we should play the kids. When the team is as it is, it is absolutely the wrong time to bring them in. If the crowd get on their backs they are not experienced enough to deal with it. And let's face it even the best players did not walk into a team and become the finished article (remember Christian Ronaldo at the Hawthorns in the league cup?). I recall Scott Darton. When he was picked people were saying great - giving he kids a chance. He had a couple of mares in a struggling team and the fans made him the scapegoat and pretty much destroyed his career.
Finally if we expect to go to Forest who are potentially doing a dingles and expect to play them off the park then that level of arrogance belongs at Villa Park.
Rant over!

Far to much sense in this post for these parts!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: westbrom3wolves0 on August 08, 2018, 06:59:02 PM
Best post I've seen on here for a long time.

I'm not at all confident our board has a clue about even the basics of a football team whatsoever. Too may businessmen and 'suits' involved in the game nowadays due to insane amounts of cash available.

Putting the blame solely at the feet of Darren Moore is just downright unfair.
Agreed, well articulated @miggybaggy. Couldn't agree any more, this is exactly the problem - our squad in midfield has lacked pace and any creative threat through the middle for years. It's something which is so frustrating to watch as a fan, as surely if the fans can see it ... can't the management who are paid the big bucks? I feel like we never truly replaced Jason Koumas and I'm rolling my eyes for saying it as this was a long time ago now, but I can't recall a player with the midfield engine, gears and creativity ... besides Graham Dorrans. It's pretty much 5 years since Dozza was a starter for the Albion and we are still with our slow, side to side, boring, predictable midfield.

The fact that the people that matter, seemingly cannot see this too or even more concerning, they see it but feel no need to address it is what will be our downfall for years to come. Just over 24 hours to sort it out Albion, please.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ashdoy on August 08, 2018, 07:21:04 PM
That is spot on, I'll buy you a pint for that post, we need to back the Manager not jump on his back from the off!
Never thought Albion fans could react this poorly.

I’ll take you on that offer mate 😂
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on August 08, 2018, 08:45:02 PM
Championship is a tough, competitive league - be organized and score goals and you’ll be there or there abouts though eg Cardiff last season . We were awful last night but got a draw - case in point. We can’t expect wonderful football after years of Pulis then Pardew to ice the sh1tty cake, however results improving wil breed confidence and a feel good factor which will give us momentum for a promotion push and perhaps more goals along the way. We’ve done it before........and Darren Moore knows......let’s get behind him, he needs us!


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mr Cynical on August 09, 2018, 10:10:56 AM
Didn't Moore say (last week - before Rondon left) that he wanted a striker, midfielder and right back?

So, he's aware of the problems that poeple are moaning about on this thread.  Will the club back him?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 09, 2018, 10:41:24 AM
lets give the fella a chance, i cant see us fans ever booing or calling for his head anyway. we are in the championship for many years before we rise again. i am sure the football will improve come September and all the players have settled. good to see Darren applauding the supporters after games
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on August 09, 2018, 10:58:16 AM
lets give the fella a chance, i cant see us fans ever booing or calling for his head anyway. we are in the championship for many years before we rise again. i am sure the football will improve come September and all the players have settled. good to see Darren applauding the supporters after games
I hope we wouldn't do that, but then I never thought I'd see the day when our own fans would throw coins at the club captain.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 09, 2018, 11:04:40 AM
I hope we wouldn't do that, but then I never thought I'd see the day when our own fans would throw coins at the club captain.

I don't think you could refer to the people that did that as fans, they were just utter cretins. I was at Reading that day and I was as annoyed by anyone with the team and the manager because the performance was rank awful, but whoever it was that did that was subhuman, not an Albion fan.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on August 09, 2018, 11:07:09 AM
I hope we wouldn't do that, but then I never thought I'd see the day when our own fans would throw coins at the club captain.

One 'fan' threw one coin.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on August 09, 2018, 11:18:29 AM
I don't think you could refer to the people that did that as fans, they were just utter cretins. I was at Reading that day and I was as annoyed by anyone with the team and the manager because the performance was rank awful, but whoever it was that did that was subhuman, not an Albion fan.
I agree, but even if you ignore the coin throwing Brunt was getting way more abuse than was reasonable over that period I think (in my opinion).  Some of our younger 'fans' might not even have that much of a memory of Big Dave so, even though I would like to think we wouldn't get on his back, I'm not 100% convinced that would be the case.  We clearly shouldn't be getting rid of him and we need to give him time to bed in.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Joust on August 09, 2018, 11:24:19 AM
I hope we wouldn't do that, but then I never thought I'd see the day when our own fans would throw coins at the club captain.

It was 1 coin, thrown by 1 kid, probably inebriated up thinking he was a big man in his stone island knock off jumper.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 09, 2018, 11:28:07 AM
As fans we have a right to be critical of anyone at the club if we think they are making mistakes etc. It's how we go about it that is important.

If by Christmas we are in the bottom half still playing terrible football with hard to fathom team selections and tactics then I think I will be justified in criticising the management.

At the moment it is too early to be getting on Moore's back but some worrying warning signs are there.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on August 09, 2018, 11:29:17 AM
My point is, if a fan can do that, then getting on Big Dave's back is not exactly unthinkable. 

Quote from Brunt:
“Our supporters obviously think it’s okay to throw coins at their own players. It’s absolutely disgusting,” Northern Ireland international Brunt told BBC Sport. “I am ashamed of them today.  If people come to matches and think it is acceptable to throw coins at footballers or anyone else, it is disgusting."

Let's not forget he was coming over to give his shirt away and was copping a lot of abuse, not just coin throwing.  And that's the club captain.  I just don't see why anyone would think that there's no way the fans would get on Big Dave's back regardless of form.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on August 09, 2018, 11:33:33 AM
As fans we have a right to be critical of anyone at the club if we think they are making mistakes etc. It's how we go about it that is important.

If by Christmas we are in the bottom half still playing terrible football with hard to fathom team selections and tactics then I think I will be justified in criticising the management.

At the moment it is too early to be getting on Moore's back but some worrying warning signs are there.

I agree, he has to get until Christmas at least but I hope he starts using his substitutions a bit better.  It's an easy rod for his own back if we aren't getting results and he's not using thge squad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 09, 2018, 11:39:20 AM
I agree, he has to get until Christmas at least but I hope he starts using his substitutions a bit better.  It's an easy rod for his own back if we aren't getting results and he's not using thge squad.

Better use of subs and less Pulis like tactics would be a good start.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 09, 2018, 12:23:29 PM
Chairman and board have let him down. Hope people see this and turn on board if things don't go well and not moore
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 09, 2018, 12:25:47 PM
Chairman and board have let him down. Hope people see this and turn on board if things don't go well and not moore


but if football continues to be bad as like at forest then Darren carries some responsibility
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 09, 2018, 12:26:09 PM
Chairman and board have let him down. Hope people see this and turn on board if things don't go well and not moore

To an extent I agree, but we have more than enough quality in this squad to be performing better than we have thus far and that is Darren's job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on August 09, 2018, 12:28:03 PM
Chairman and board have let him down. Hope people see this and turn on board if things don't go well and not moore
He's let himself down - it was his choice to try to retain the core of players rather than go for a mass turnover of players, and he has decided what are priorities are - which he has failed to identify as our central midfield. You'll probably find he thinks we've had a good window, because he overrates the ability of many of our old guard.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on August 09, 2018, 12:29:19 PM
With players we have at the minute there's only one way of playing pumping balls over the top for Gayle to run onto
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 09, 2018, 12:30:25 PM
With players we have at the minute there's only one way of playing pumping balls over the top for Gayle to run onto

There really isn't...

We have some very good ball carriers at this level in Barnes, Phillips, Morrison, Barry etc, we should be playing through the thirds and carving teams apart with Gayle on the end of the chances created.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on August 09, 2018, 12:38:06 PM
There really isn't...

We have some very good ball carriers at this level in Barnes, Phillips, Morrison, Barry etc, we should be playing through the thirds and carving teams apart with Gayle on the end of the chances created.
well from what I've seen in two games so far that's all we're doing
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 09, 2018, 12:50:28 PM
well from what I've seen in two games so far that's all we're doing

Hence my frustrations with those selecting the side and tactics.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on August 09, 2018, 01:00:56 PM
well from what I've seen in two games so far that's all we're doing

Goal v Bolton - wide player cuts in from the right and scores a screamer.

Goal v Forest - decent passing move through the pitch finished off by a tremendous strike by a wide player.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 09, 2018, 01:05:23 PM
Goal v Bolton - wide player cuts in from the right and scores a screamer.

Goal v Forest - decent passing move through the pitch finished off by a tremendous strike by a wide player.


Also 3 po8nt blank headers from Set pieces missed.


2 simple headed chances within 8 yards of goal blazed over by stupid acrobatic volleys. One on one hits post. Open goal 12 yards out hits bar. Open goal rebound headed tamely back to keeper.


We are creating big clear goal scoring chances.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: telford baggie on August 09, 2018, 01:06:44 PM
Chairman and board have let him down. Hope people see this and turn on board if things don't go well and not moore
how do you know..Darren Moore may be happy with whats he got and only wants back up players as thats all we seem to be after, if Darren Moore fails theres only 1 person to blame and after 2 games hes not doing himself any favours
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: victor mature on August 09, 2018, 02:02:35 PM
 Middlesbrough seem to be after the sort of players I thought  we'd be after. Strange that Pulis's signings for Palace and Boro aren't as carp as the signings Albion made while he was here. Maybe they weren't his signings. Meanwhile this window is the worst since we signed HRK. ******** to them
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieNick on August 09, 2018, 08:02:55 PM
Or perhaps they were his signings under the usual financial constraints we have all become accustomed to.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on August 09, 2018, 08:44:33 PM
Can't see us being under the constraints of FFP but can see us being under constraints of a billionaire owner ok a owner with sod all money.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on August 09, 2018, 09:04:44 PM
Or perhaps they were his signings under the usual financial constraints we have all become accustomed to.

I don't think it has a great deal to do with financial constraints. Middlesbrough signed Aden Flint for £7m, he's one of the best centre backs in this division, a notch if not two above Bartley. Dawson's been quoted as being worth £20m+ and he's good, but he's really not much better than Flint.

In this division however you can get away with playing some average players and still go up. Fulham were playing some ordinary players last year and had a threadbare squad. Odoi at centre-back is no better than Bartley and he played an important part in their promotion. For all the hype Sessegnon is not much better than Philips. They also lacked a goalscorer prior to signing Mitrovic in January, yet still finished third in the table. Cairney as their attacking midfielder is not in the same league as Chadli. Macdonald as their 'playmaker' is no better than Morrison.

It's the coaching that elevated Fulham, rather than their personnel. Their goalkeeper would always play a goal-kick to a defenders feet, even when the opposition put three forwards on the 18 yard line. Our players are hoofing it forward even when under no pressure in their own half. It's an archaic style of play that needs to be addressed.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Westie on August 09, 2018, 09:51:59 PM
Big Dave has been let down badly by Lai and so have we. The ownership of our club by Lai makes my blood boil. I take every opportunity to express my opinion of the man except on this board. Peace certainly saw him coming.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on August 10, 2018, 08:23:59 AM

Steven Gerrard has slammed West Brom manager Darren Moore

Talking in the Daily Record, Gerrard said: “James was magnificent. Good players get attention from other clubs. I don’t appreciate that attention 24 hours before a big game. I’d like a phone call off of big Darren [Moore] at some point.

“But James handled it very well and that was probably his strongest performance so far".

I think it should be the other way round Steve
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on August 10, 2018, 08:27:47 AM
Gerrard has been a bitbof a knob already so far in his post game interviews. He came out with some guff last week about how Rangers had been discriminated against by referees for years and now this.

If he lasts in management, you can guarantee that he will do exactly the same at some point and he won't think twice.

Just a big mouth with a big club attitude.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Chipperfan on August 10, 2018, 08:52:38 AM
Gerrard has been a bitbof a knob already so far in his post game interviews. He came out with some guff last week about how Rangers had been discriminated against by referees for years and now this.

If he lasts in management, you can guarantee that he will do exactly the same at some point and he won't think twice.

Just a big mouth with a big club attitude.

He’s just another gobsh!te scouser with an overinflated opinion of himself. He needs to get over himself.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 10, 2018, 08:56:18 AM
I fail to see how that is Gerrard slamming Moore? Headlines become more and more embarrassing with every passing day.

It's Gerrard using it as an opportunity to have a dig generally, the only mention of Moore is in him hoping he gets a phone call from him, which is a nonsense in itself. We bid for a player on transfer deadline day, what does he expect in life?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on August 10, 2018, 12:29:22 PM
I wouldn't have been too impressed to receive such a late bid if I were Gerrard and preparing for a game.

While I appreciate that targets come and go Albion had all summer to put the feelers out.

If we'd wanted Tavernier that badly we should have been in much sooner.

However, if I wanted to know Gerrard's thoughts on the subject I'd sh it in a jar and take a sniff.

The bloke always comes across as an arrogant, sneering bell end.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Blowee on August 11, 2018, 08:00:43 AM
Matt Wilson's piece is an interesting view on Darren Moore. It's fair comment that time is needed to change things at our club and that this has been a very difficult summer. I agree that Darren Moore should be given that time and that we should support him in this endeavour. Many of us predicted that we'd be mid table this season - I'm just a guilty as many on here of being disappointed with 1 point out of two games and our approach in those matches but what did we expect? Personally I was hoping we'd go for Graham Potter but now we have Darren Moore I would like to back him for at least the season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on August 11, 2018, 08:26:51 AM
Moore said the right things in the main and I understand the need to give him time, but my alarm is more around the fundamentals. Not using substitutes has always been one of my biggest bug bears, not making any tactical change when things were going wrong is a hint towards somebody who isn't sure what to do and his seeming comfort with our immobile central midfield- the same midfield EVERYONE agreed was not good enough last year - makes me think he isn't going to make the improvements our team needs.

He will get enough time but the early assessment is alarming.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Blowee on August 11, 2018, 08:41:47 AM
I share these concerns but at the same time can understand the temptation not to change things too quickly. Bolton probably was a bit of a wake up call. Had things gone differently we could have won it comfortably and we probably would have gone to Forest with a more confident approach. Had we got 4 points at this stage I think we would all have been quite happy. Fine margins - I won't get too carried away whatever the results for a while. Whoever took over would have needed time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on August 11, 2018, 09:36:06 AM
Middlesbrough seem to be after the sort of players I thought  we'd be after. Strange that Pulis's signings for Palace and Boro aren't as carp as the signings Albion made while he was here. Maybe they weren't his signings. Meanwhile this window is the worst since we signed HRK. ******** to them


Middlesbrough have had a terrible window. Lost many very good players and signed mainly defenders. Pulis is already making excuses and their fans are showing signs of getting restless. They're in a worse place than us.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Blowee on August 11, 2018, 09:40:57 AM

Middlesbrough have had a terrible window. Lost many very good players and signed mainly defenders. Pulis is already making excuses and their fans are showing signs of getting restless. They're in a worse place than us.
watched their game against Sheffield United and they seemed happy enough.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on August 11, 2018, 10:05:42 AM
No matter who we appointed as Head Coach this year had to be given time the culture change Moore is talking about won't happen overnight and unless we are prepared to invest a season in it things won't change.

I expect things to gradually improve as the season progresses. There are issues with the balance of the squad and frankly we still don't have a functioning midfield how much of this is down to Moore is debatable his hands are tied by the players we have under contract and let's face it for the most part there wasn't a queue of clubs willing to pay money for them.

Moore may well be able to supplement what he has with a few loan signings  and that will help the situation. However once that option has closed at the end of the month he will have to make what he has work. I suspect that process won't be a smooth one and the lineup will evolve over the coming weeks and months.  It is plain that Moore is no fool  and his rather avuncular public persona belies inner steel which he has needed to achieve what he has already achieved in the game. If the players aren't delivering then I suspect they will find out there is a ruthless side to his personality.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Blowee on August 11, 2018, 10:37:04 AM
 :(
No matter who we appointed as Head Coach this year had to be given time the culture change Moore is talking about won't happen overnight and unless we are prepared to invest a season in it things won't change.

I expect things to gradually improve as the season progresses. There are issues with the balance of the squad and frankly we still don't have a functioning midfield how much of this is down to Moore is debatable his hands are tied by the players we have under contract and let's face it for the most part there wasn't a queue of clubs willing to pay money for them.

Moore may well be able to supplement what he has with a few loan signings  and that will help the situation. However once that option has closed at the end of the month he will have to make what he has work. I suspect that process won't be a smooth one and the lineup will evolve over the coming weeks and months.  It is plain that Moore is no fool  and his rather avuncular public persona belies inner steel which he has needed to achieve what he has already achieved in the game. If the players aren't delivering then I suspect they will find out there is a ruthless side to his personality.
I agree with the assessment of Darren Moore. He may not appear to be the most educated in interviews etc but he is a thinking character who is very determined and honest. Ok he's not an experienced manager (head coach) but he is a football man who has spent his life in the game. I think he will come good and hope it's with us. He'll make mistakes along the way but learn from them unlike other more experienced managers that we have had who seem to be set in their ways.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ashdoy on August 11, 2018, 10:56:45 AM
I dont buy into the opinion we needed a more experienced manager.

Remember, we had Pulis. He left this mess.

Cant get more experienced than that.

Give the guy a chance.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: miggybaggy on August 11, 2018, 11:55:01 AM
I'm hoping that Jones will have an increasing influence on Darren Moore. Lets see how it goes today with the lessons (hopefully) learned from Forest.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on August 11, 2018, 11:58:26 AM
I dont buy into the opinion we needed a more experienced manager.

Remember, we had Pulis. He left this mess.

Cant get more experienced than that.

Give the guy a chance.

I concur.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on August 11, 2018, 12:10:05 PM
People need to look at the squad Pulis inherited and then see where we were when he left.

Likewise with Moore, you can't judge this squad now against him. Not in my opinion.

I have confidence in him he just has some steep learning curves to contend with.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dan on August 11, 2018, 02:17:44 PM
We needed drastic changes to the team but we just haven't had them, some of that isn't his fault, but persisting with 4-4-2 with Brunt in the middle most certainly is. Against decent teams we will never win the midfield battle, against poor teams, we will struggle to break them down.

Even when he was younger, Brunt always struggled to play central midfield, and certainly never in a midfield two. Expecting him to be capable of that twice a week at 33 years old is just strange.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 11, 2018, 02:20:03 PM
I dont buy into the opinion we needed a more experienced manager.

Remember, we had Pulis. He left this mess.

Cant get more experienced than that.

Give the guy a chance.

The argument to counter that though is that it was inexperience that led to us needing Pulis in the first place. Hopefully with Jones who has  been around a while alongside Moore it may help him see things that everyone else seems to be aware of apart from Moore himself.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 11, 2018, 05:00:11 PM
4 points out of 9.

4 away. Dodgy first game.

Positives/negatives.

Well done on the first one Darren and co..

The signings of of Johnstone, Bartley, Barnes, Gayle all very good.

Just a shame not fully backed

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 11, 2018, 05:01:31 PM
100% needs to bin of nyom and get a full back on loan asap.

Need to stop going with livermore/brunt.

100% behind Dave, he deserves our full backing all season
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on August 11, 2018, 05:03:00 PM
Well done Darren. We are very slowly making progress. On to the cup and a chance to see some other players in midfield and hopefully start to play Dawson into fitness.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 11, 2018, 05:07:11 PM
Delighted for Darren. Dawson and Chadli to return. Can see us going on a decent run for the next few weeks.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 11, 2018, 05:08:56 PM
By the way stoke have played one game less than us. Say they was playing tomorrow despite how they'd get on they wouldn't have more points than us..how much did they spend again? Rowett out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on August 11, 2018, 05:11:05 PM
Delighted for Darren. Dawson and Chadli to return. Can see us going on a decent run for the next few weeks.

Club are hopeful of offloading Chadli to Marseille in the next few days I've heard today.  Need to get him off the wage bill before we bring in anyone on loan.

Very important we don't let go of Dawson though given the issues as the back.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dan on August 11, 2018, 05:27:30 PM
By the way stoke have played one game less than us. Say they was playing tomorrow despite how they'd get on they wouldn't have more points than us..how much did they spend again? Rowett out.

Certainly wouldn't be thrilled with him either, Rowett is very much a pragmatist and plays very functional football.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 11, 2018, 05:32:52 PM
Rowett is a painfully dull, Pulis type, manager.

Always said I would not want him here. Dean Smith on the other hand...Brentford bossed that game and looked brilliant by all accounts
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on August 11, 2018, 05:33:57 PM
Club are hopeful of offloading Chadli to Marseille in the next few days I've heard today.  Need to get him off the wage bill before we bring in anyone on loan.

Very important we don't let go of Dawson though given the issues as the back.
Hopefully that means we go in for a central midfielder - preferably Ryan Woods on loan turning in to a permanent in January.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kie the baggie on August 11, 2018, 05:34:39 PM
Club are hopeful of offloading Chadli to Marseille in the next few days I've heard today.  Need to get him off the wage bill before we bring in anyone on loan.

Very important we don't let go of Dawson though given the issues as the back.
Dawson wont go abroad
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on August 11, 2018, 05:38:18 PM
Delighted for Darren. Dawson and Chadli to return. Can see us going on a decent run for the next few weeks.

Its weird agreeing with you.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on August 11, 2018, 05:39:59 PM
Hopefully that means we go in for a central midfielder - preferably Ryan Woods on loan turning in to a permanent in January.

I don't think he played today. I'd love him here.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on August 11, 2018, 06:21:43 PM
Delighted for Darren. Dawson and Chadli to return. Can see us going on a decent run for the next few weeks.
Very very unlikely
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on August 11, 2018, 06:28:28 PM
Delighted for Darren. Dawson and Chadli to return. Can see us going on a decent run for the next few weeks.

Love the optimism and rate Chadli but cannot see him staying. Really pleased for Darren so want him to do well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on August 11, 2018, 10:26:43 PM
After watching Darren's post match interviews it's obvious to me that although he's a nice guy he isn't particularly smart, articulate or versed in anything approaching in-depth tactics.

His decisions during games have been questionable at best.

I hope that we can bolster the central midfield position with loan signings, move brunt out to the left and then Darren can grow into the job, but quickly.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on August 11, 2018, 11:12:10 PM
After watching Darren's post match interviews it's obvious to me that although he's a nice guy he isn't particularly smart, articulate or versed in anything approaching in-depth tactics.

His decisions during games have been questionable at best.

I hope that we can bolster the central midfield position with loan signings, move brunt out to the left and then Darren can grow into the job, but quickly.
Unfortunately Moore isn't suddenly going to become smart, articulate or tactically aware if he hasn't developed this in his football career by now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 11, 2018, 11:19:29 PM
Anyone watching motd...

Chelsea manager apparently said it could take 2-3 months to see his style..
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 11, 2018, 11:26:05 PM
Anyone watching motd...

Chelsea manager apparently said it could take 2-3 months to see his style..


Behave. He should have them marching to the beat of his drum within a couple of training sessions...  :o ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on August 11, 2018, 11:39:12 PM
Hey slate,he has all his coaching badges so I think he knows all about tactics so hes smart.
Articulate? Who says he has to be,as long as the players understand him that's good enough for me.
Smart? I bet he earns more than me and you,so he's not daft is he?
He's doing OK let him breathe fgs.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wigmore on August 12, 2018, 03:07:48 AM
After watching Darren's post match interviews it's obvious to me that although he's a nice guy he isn't particularly smart, articulate or versed in anything approaching in-depth tactics.

His decisions during games have been questionable at best.

I hope that we can bolster the central midfield position with loan signings, move brunt out to the left and then Darren can grow into the job, but quickly.
Amazing. Since when has watching a three minute sound bite qualify you to make sweeping assumptions about his tactical abilities?  Would you prefer DM to talk to the public like our last manager? He knew all the right buzzwords - pity he was sh**e.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on August 12, 2018, 03:38:09 AM
After watching Darren's post match interviews it's obvious to me that although he's a nice guy he isn't particularly smart, articulate or versed in anything approaching in-depth tactics.

His decisions during games have been questionable at best.

I hope that we can bolster the central midfield position with loan signings, move brunt out to the left and then Darren can grow into the job, but quickly.
Ouch! My twin brother and I are both trained mechanical engineers. My vocabulary is much better than his. (He’s dyslexic by the way) However, his problem solving at the base level is bewildering. Maybe Darren is a nuts and bolt guy. I’d prefer that to some guy who spouts off cliches during interviews. This pressure from Sky et al for pre/post match interviews is ridiculous anyway.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on August 12, 2018, 06:53:11 AM
Darren turned around a club last year which was in an utter mess. He did this through being himself - a humble and an inspirational leader who created a sense of 'us' amongst a bunch of scared and selfish individuals. He didn't do it by being a statto, tactical genius. He's admitted he's learning the coaching side as he goes so I think we should get off his back. Graeme Jones' experience along with the rest of the coaching team behind him will help Darren immensely. He doesn't seem to operate alone but as a team of coaches which will help him/ us as the season progresses. He's different t oeveryone else out there because he is Albion and he is not jumping from club to club every couple of years.

If Darren can get a sense of belonging and team work amongst the squad whilst picking up results we might see him start to build something. Performances follow results and with the attacking players we have in this division we'll scare most teams on the break.

I always said I'd enjoy the ride with Darren and I am already, it won't be dull and I again feel a connection to the club which was waning a bit to be honest over the past few years.

Great result yesterday in spite of lots and lots of work needed particularly on organisation and shape - an area which takes time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Blowee on August 12, 2018, 07:54:05 AM
After watching Darren's post match interviews it's obvious to me that although he's a nice guy he isn't particularly smart, articulate or versed in anything approaching in-depth tactics.

His decisions during games have been questionable at best.

I hope that we can bolster the central midfield position with loan signings, move brunt out to the left and then Darren can grow into the job, but quickly.
Being articulate comes with practice and experience of handling the media - anyone remember David Beckhams first interviews? Darren Moore speaks from the heart and that's more honest than many more eperienced 'smart' head coaches.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on August 12, 2018, 09:11:47 AM
I'm not worried about him coming across articulate, I'm worried that he is in a situation where we will need to score loads of goals to get results.
Scored 4 yesterday and we never had control of the game.
Keystone Kop defending, attacking midfielder and a couple of defenders.

I'd be inclined to say arrivederci to Gibbs and drop Brunty back there.
Bin Nyom and for goodness sake lets have some pace and guile in midfield.
If we can get Dawson back and focused that will be a plus
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 12, 2018, 09:13:18 AM
Can't help but think those questioning Moore's intelligence might have a few issues 'upstairs' themselves.  ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on August 12, 2018, 09:20:16 AM
After watching Darren's post match interviews it's obvious to me that although he's a nice guy he isn't particularly smart, articulate or versed in anything approaching in-depth tactics.

His decisions during games have been questionable at best.

I hope that we can bolster the central midfield position with loan signings, move brunt out to the left and then Darren can grow into the job, but quickly.

Pretty offensive comment really.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 12, 2018, 09:26:03 AM
Pretty offensive comment really.


It's an opinion.

I do not think Darren comes across as particularly bright either. That's not to say he isn't it's maybe just his manner.

You get some managers / head coaches that sound like a genius when they talk but their actual ability to succeed in their role doesn't match how they come across. Maybe Big Dave is the opposite?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on August 12, 2018, 09:27:19 AM
I'm not worried about him coming across articulate, I'm worried that he is in a situation where we will need to score loads of goals to get results.
Scored 4 yesterday and we never had control of the game.
Keystone Kop defending, attacking midfielder and a couple of defenders.

I'd be inclined to say arrivederci to Gibbs and drop Brunty back there.
Bin Nyom and for goodness sake lets have some pace and guile in midfield.
If we can get Dawson back and focused that will be a plus

I’d agree with that, have Brunt back where he should be playing (i.e somewhere on the left hand side), and sort the midfield and right back position out properly which is what should have been done a month ago.

Gibbs looks completely disinterested.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on August 12, 2018, 09:34:33 AM
People are being harsh on Gibbs. He got down the line yesterday a fair bit, he also dug in and won the ball back a few times.  Compare that to the other side with Nyom and now that is a disinterested performance.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: NathWBA on August 12, 2018, 10:37:49 AM
People are being harsh on Gibbs. He got down the line yesterday a fair bit, he also dug in and won the ball back a few times.  Compare that to the other side with Nyom and now that is a disinterested performance.
I don’t get the hatred towards gibbs, he’s a modern full back, not the best defensively but gets up the pitch well, exactly as he did last season, difference is this year he’s got Barnes in front of him who offers no defensive cover which leave Gibbs exposed quite often.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on August 12, 2018, 10:58:30 AM
I don’t get the hatred towards gibbs, he’s a modern full back, not the best defensively but gets up the pitch well, exactly as he did last season, difference is this year he’s got Barnes in front of him who offers no defensive cover which leave Gibbs exposed quite often.

Gibbs was that awful that he was subbed at half time and yet you think he did alright and are blaming Barnes, hilarious! How often does a full back get subbed at half time? He’s a useless spectator and I can’t see him getting back in the team any time soon.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on August 12, 2018, 11:04:46 AM
I do understand what Slate is trying to say, even if it sounds a bit too harsh.

If you listen to the majority of top managers, you get a feel that they are football thinkers, who can explain their views on the game in a clear and sometimes original way. The same for top pundits who are articulate in discussing what they think went well and what didn't.

It isn't one of Moore's stronger points. His interviews generally stick to very safe lines, we stick together, we did some things well, we showed fight, sometimes while stumbling over his words.

It could be a sign of someone nervous in front of the camera, and maybe he is a deep thinker about the game but he hasn't yet been able to reflect that in his interviews, but that is all we have to go on. It does give me more confidence in a manager when they are articulate as I can more readily understand their ideas about the game. Hopefully Moore gets better at it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on August 12, 2018, 11:08:08 AM
I do understand what Slate is trying to say, even if it sounds a bit too harsh.

If you listen to the majority of top managers, you get a feel that they are football thinkers, who can explain their views on the game in a clear and sometimes original way. The same for top pundits who are articulate in discussing what they think went well and what didn't.

It isn't one of Moore's stronger points. His interviews generally stick to very safe lines, we stick together, we did some things well, we showed fight, sometimes while stumbling over his words.

It could be a sign of someone nervous in front of the camera, and maybe he is a deep thinker about the game but he hasn't yet been able to reflect that in his interviews, but that is all we have to go on. It does give me more confidence in a manager when they are articulate as I can more readily understand their ideas about the game. Hopefully Moore gets better at it.

I don’t think the criticism was harsh. Moore does come across as a bit simple with a very limited vocabulary. Speaks in a child like sentences. However I’d like to think he is more intelligent than he is able to project. He obviously has other strengths. I always thought Pardrew spoke very well and yet he was tactically clueless so there is no direct link between talking a good game and making good decisions.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: NathWBA on August 12, 2018, 11:09:33 AM
Gibbs was that awful that he was subbed at half time and yet you think he did alright and are blaming Barnes, hilarious! How often does a full back get subbed at half time? He’s a useless spectator and I can’t see him getting back in the team any time soon.
you didn’t read my post properly at all, hilarious! , where did I mention anything at all about Gibbs performance yesterday? Simply stated that his performances are no different to last season and he offers more going forward. As a modern full back he isn’t the best defensively so needs protection from whoever is in front of him, Barnes doesn’t offer anything defensively so whoever plays behind him needs to be a good defender because they will be left exposed, Gibbs isn’t disinterested he’s just more exposed than last season. That’s not blaming Barnes he’s an attacking player, it’s a consequence of playing brunt in the centre not on the left where he does offer more protection to the full back.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on August 12, 2018, 11:47:53 AM
Also he was taken off because of an injury.
Perhaps Dave talks in so called child Luke sentences( which is very disparaging ) so some on here can understand him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on August 12, 2018, 11:52:01 AM
Nothing quite like a controversial Sunday morning!

I realise that my comments were rather blunt and I apologise if anybody was offended by them.

Baggies makes a good point of press conference manager comments versus in-game decision making actions. Clearly Pardew was a master at the former and not the latter.

However, I'm not seeing much of either by Darren at the moment to give me the confidence that, to paraphrase Jacko2000, that we will comfortably win the league.

It's early days though and I hope that he can grow into the role quickly and be successful.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on August 12, 2018, 12:19:11 PM
Congrats to big Dave on his first win as first team coach, like everyone on this forum I hope he does well. ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on August 12, 2018, 12:37:41 PM
Also he was taken off because of an injury.
Perhaps Dave talks in so called child Luke sentences( which is very disparaging ) so some on here can understand him.

He is an ex footballer who is the man manager of other footballers big words and complex sentences are not needed!

He will know as well as anyone that the way to keep his critics quite is by results. It's a shame that the good will for one of our own has not been extended to DM by some quarters.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on August 12, 2018, 12:48:20 PM
I don’t think the criticism was harsh. Moore does come across as a bit simple with a very limited vocabulary. Speaks in a child like sentences. However I’d like to think he is more intelligent than he is able to project. He obviously has other strengths. I always thought Pardrew spoke very well and yet he was tactically clueless so there is no direct link between talking a good game and making good decisions.

He comes across a bit simple? Childlike sentences?

Frankly I'm more interested in the work he does than analysing the wordcount and the number of letters in the words he uses.

Seeing as some of you are all so superficial maybe we should send him to elocution lessons and ask him to wear reading glasses and develop a studious pose - would you be happier with that?

Some of the comments on here defy belief. 

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on August 12, 2018, 01:10:24 PM
He comes across a bit simple? Childlike sentences?

Frankly I'm more interested in the work he does than analysing the wordcount and the number of letters in the words he uses.

Seeing as some of you are all so superficial maybe we should send him to elocution lessons and ask him to wear reading glasses and develop a studious pose - would you be happier with that?

Some of the comments on here defy belief.

Your making the same point as me, yes he does come across as a bit simple but that’s not correlated to his performance or decision making.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on August 12, 2018, 01:49:38 PM
He comes across a bit simple? Childlike sentences?

Frankly I'm more interested in the work he does than analysing the wordcount and the number of letters in the words he uses.

Seeing as some of you are all so superficial maybe we should send him to elocution lessons and ask him to wear reading glasses and develop a studious pose - would you be happier with that?

Some of the comments on here defy belief.

Now you're being ridiculous. A simple monocle will be just fine.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Chipperfan on August 12, 2018, 01:56:38 PM
He comes across a bit simple? Childlike sentences?

Frankly I'm more interested in the work he does than analysing the wordcount and the number of letters in the words he uses.

Seeing as some of you are all so superficial maybe we should send him to elocution lessons and ask him to wear reading glasses and develop a studious pose - would you be happier with that?

Some of the comments on here defy belief.

People are confusing someone being softly spoken with someone being simple. Frankly, posters are also confusing their own views about football as supporters with the views of highly trained professionals who have spent their entire careers in the game.

It’s nonsense really to imagine that any of us knows or understands the game in the way that someone like DM does.

He’s going to get things wrong, everyone does, but for goodness sake give him a break. He’s just three games into the season, the team is trying to adapt to new thinking and new tactics, some of the players are either useless or not interested and despite that we scored four yesterday and won away from home.

So far, so good. Improvements can be made and no doubt will. It’s a long season. I’m going to enjoy it I think.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on August 12, 2018, 02:09:24 PM
For someone who is "simple",who does the poster think he is saying something about another person?, I say this ,take the six games Dave was in charge in the premier league,the pre season games and the three championship games and tell us all how many matches he lost?
He is not simple perhaps you should look at yourself mate before saying things like that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on August 12, 2018, 02:12:05 PM
People are confusing someone being softly spoken with someone being simple. Frankly, posters are also confusing their own views about football as supporters with the views of highly trained professionals who have spent their entire careers in the game.

It’s nonsense really to imagine that any of us knows or understands the game in the way that someone like DM does.

He’s going to get things wrong, everyone does, but for goodness sake give him a break. He’s just three games into the season, the team is trying to adapt to new thinking and new tactics, some of the players are either useless or not interested and despite that we scored four yesterday and won away from home.

So far, so good. Improvements can be made and no doubt will. It’s a long season. I’m going to enjoy it I think.
agree with your sentiment but Darren hit the nail on the head by saying that it will take time on training ground to get players mind set right for this division where they are the big boys in most games
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Chipperfan on August 12, 2018, 02:20:30 PM
agree with your sentiment but Darren hit the nail on the head by saying that it will take time on training ground to get players mind set right for this division where they are the big boys in most games

Pretty sure that we are agreeing with each other...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on August 12, 2018, 02:24:31 PM
So far I am quite pleased with Big Dave,after the forest performance the city kid had a mare,so he replaced him with Nyon,cant blame Big Dave that somehow Nyon happed to be worse,there was no way he could have started the city kid v Norwich,again Morrison not in the game v Forest,so start Gayle and drop back jrod into midfield all good and sound decisions,i think all us posters agree our forward line is very good,centre midfield is too slow for this league,Brunt if he needs to play him should play left back,and ive always thought Livermore a bit slow too and have yet to see how he ever featured in the England set up,centre defence Dawson back in here,and we will be fine,Right Back is the main problem,so in a nutshell Dawson Centre Midfield,Brunt out of centre midfield and a solution for right back,if Dave can see this we will be fine
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: royhan on August 12, 2018, 02:28:26 PM
Moderators, i think this topic should be ended. It has become far too personal. Let’s focus on football issues.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on August 12, 2018, 03:02:56 PM
You don't have to shout to make yourself heard
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Black Pearl on August 12, 2018, 03:11:02 PM
Unfortunately Moore isn't suddenly going to become smart, articulate or tactically aware if he hasn't developed this in his football career by now.

And our fan base is not going to be any more knowledgeable if they make judgements based on three games.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Xpresso on August 12, 2018, 03:31:18 PM
Some of the comments are becoming downright offensive and verging on racist. Some people need to stop and read through what they've written before they hit the Post button.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Black Pearl on August 12, 2018, 03:45:40 PM
I despair sometimes, we have been competitive in every game, could have had more points could have had less, but the defence can be sorted with the players at our disposal, its the midfield and forward line that was more of a concern going into the season, midfield still is a concern, but we are scoring and creating, the glass should be half full, not half empty.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on August 12, 2018, 03:51:00 PM
Some strange comments. We were all on a high before Bolton, then there was meltdown until yesterday when it calmed down a bit. I put it down to posters who only know of the premier league days.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on August 12, 2018, 04:33:41 PM
Some of the comments are becoming downright offensive and verging on racist. Some people need to stop and read through what they've written before they hit the Post button.

Which comments are verging on being racist?

There is zero place for that here.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 12, 2018, 04:44:28 PM
Moderators, i think this topic should be ended. It has become far too personal. Let’s focus on football issues.
I agree to an extent, happy for the tpic to remain but some comments are getting a bit too personal.

Can people stick to discussing Darren Mooore as a Head Coach and not the man himself please
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 12, 2018, 04:45:13 PM
Some of the comments are becoming downright offensive and verging on racist. Some people need to stop and read through what they've written before they hit the Post button.

Please forward any racist comments to myself, they and the person making them will be removed from this forum
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 12, 2018, 05:22:38 PM
I agree to an extent, happy for the tpic to remain but some comments are getting a bit too personal.

Can people stick to discussing Darren Mooore as a Head Coach and not the man himself please
I think you need to be wary about censoring this topic too much. For example, how well Darren does in interviews does relate to his job as head coach. Also, both Pulis and Pardew got dog's abuse on here on a personal level and a lot of posts of that nature remained. It's a difficult line to draw to discuss his performance as a head coach without it being in some way personal. Many football fans up and down the land would have reason at times to call their club's manager "clueless", but I'm sure posts where people say that wouldn't be removed.

Obviously racist abuse of any kind shouldn't be tolerated, no matter who is the subject of it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 12, 2018, 05:29:20 PM
I think you need to be wary about censoring this topic too much. For example, how well Darren does in interviews does relate to his job as head coach. Also, both Pulis and Pardew got dog's abuse on here on a personal level and a lot of posts of that nature remained. It's a difficult line to draw to discuss his performance as a head coach without it being in some way personal. Many football fans up and down the land would have reason at times to call their club's manager "clueless", but I'm sure posts where people say that wouldn't be removed.

Obviously racist abuse of any kind shouldn't be tolerated, no matter who is the subject of it.

I know all about abuse that previous managers received, most of it didn't remain on the forum to be seen. I know there is a difference between personal abuse and criticism. Criticism is fine, abuse is not and as such abusive comments will be removed.

I think it might be time for us to step down as it seems plenty of you think you are able to do a better job moderating the forum than we are.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 12, 2018, 05:29:25 PM
And our fan base is not going to be any more knowledgeable if they make judgements based on three games.
Well, there were plenty of people who wanted Darren to get the head coach's job permanently on the basis of him being in charge for just 6 games. Those same people can't now reasonably claim that he should be given 15-20 games this season before anyone judges him. He got the job on the back of 6 games, so it's only right and proper for him to be under scrutiny from the outset this season.

There are failings in the side that are apparent to everyone, and I'm sure people will be happier to cut Darren more slack if they see evidence that he's recognised those failings for himself and taken steps to address them. We're 3 games in now and the obvious problems all still glaringly remain.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 12, 2018, 05:32:33 PM
I think it might be time for us to step down as it seems plenty of you think you are able to do a better job moderating the forum than we are.
My post was just a polite response suggesting a bit of caution, nothing more.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 12, 2018, 05:36:51 PM
My post was just a polite response suggesting a bit of caution, nothing more.

I think we're aware thanks
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: alex1 on August 12, 2018, 05:52:51 PM
Just listened to the video interview with Graeme Jones. He comes across as impressive, good attitude and a believer in good attacking football. As number 2 to Roberto Martinez's Belgium you can see why. What's important is that he's come to the club because of DM. The 2 are good friends, but Jones and his football philosophy will have a big impact. DM's success as a manager will partly be down to Jones.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on August 12, 2018, 05:55:15 PM
Well, there were plenty of people who wanted Darren to get the head coach's job permanently on the basis of him being in charge for just 6 games. Those same people can't now reasonably claim that he should be given 15-20 games this season before anyone judges him. He got the job on the back of 6 games, so it's only right and proper for him to be under scrutiny from the outset this season.

There are failings in the side that are apparent to everyone, and I'm sure people will be happier to cut Darren more slack if they see evidence that he's recognised those failings for himself and taken steps to address them. We're 3 games in now and the obvious problems all still glaringly remain.
I think that's a bit simplistic. He got the job on the back of 6 games, the fact that he holds all the necessary coaching badges, his obvious qualities as a motivator both with the youths and the first team, his dedication and honesty, and (importantly) that he has West Brom in his heart and understood the need for the club to re-connect with the fans. He was a good candidate, a somewhat risky one given his lack of experience, but sometimes risks can work out well. He is clearly trying to build a new team with a new mentality, more attacking, more entertaining, more enjoyable, but he is not a wizard and we have to be a bit patient surely and cut him a bit of slack for now.
By the way, just a quick comment on a couple of other comments from the above posts. To Xpresso, I have looked back and can't find a single comment that is even remotely racist, so I don't know why you suggested such a thing. And to Oldbury, you are doing a great job moderating the site, and I can say this despite having the odd post of my own removed. Critics should have a look at some of the other shambolic fans' forums around before being so quick to criticise.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on August 12, 2018, 05:59:03 PM
Well, there were plenty of people who wanted Darren to get the head coach's job permanently on the basis of him being in charge for just 6 games. Those same people can't now reasonably claim that he should be given 15-20 games this season before anyone judges him. He got the job on the back of 6 games, so it's only right and proper for him to be under scrutiny from the outset this season.

There are failings in the side that are apparent to everyone, and I'm sure people will be happier to cut Darren more slack if they see evidence that he's recognised those failings for himself and taken steps to address them. We're 3 games in now and the obvious problems all still glaringly remain.

6 games?!?! I'm pretty certain he was around the club much longer then that with other parts of the club and impressed enough to work his way up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 12, 2018, 06:40:47 PM
6 games?!?! I'm pretty certain he was around the club much longer then that with other parts of the club and impressed enough to work his way up.
How many fans can truly claim to know anything one way or the other about the quality of his work prior to becoming head coach?

I'm giving him a chance, as anyone should with a new manager or player, but I disagree that he should somehow be excused any scrutiny for what he does or doesn't do.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on August 12, 2018, 06:50:15 PM
How many of us know that Darren had put his head into the lion's mouth taking on the Albion has his 1st managerial job,
i'd say all of us but we wished him well.
Give him at least best part of the season to see if can get the team pulling in right direction.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on August 12, 2018, 06:54:37 PM
I have plenty of good mates i would not work with, The fact that Graeme Jones has felt confident enough to walk away from Belgium job to team up with DM suggests 9to me at least) that DM is no mug and a top coach thinks the same clearly.
I also think DM deserve credit for getting GJ here!
I'll reserve judgement on the new teams gelling at Xmas and not before.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Black Pearl on August 12, 2018, 08:38:51 PM
Bottom line is, Big Dave's here to manage a squad of professional footballs, and try and win football games based on his assessment of the team and individuals. He may not be a gifted orator in some people's eyes, but that's not his job. The way someone speaks is usually a reflection of their upbringing rather than their intelligence.

Donald Trump/Alan Sugar have a far more limited vocabulary than Big Dave, yet they know how to run a successful business better than 99% of people. Just because someone isn't an eloquent speaker, doesn't mean they're not intelligent.

Spot on, I would add that people who are successful are aware of their limitations, they make up for those by employing people around them who bring those skills to the party, that is the sign of intelligence, not their ability to trot out a line to the media.
The arrogant think they know it all, the smart ones know they don't and utilise the knowledge of others, a life lesson many could learn, but many don't.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 12, 2018, 09:36:41 PM
I can't see why people get so offended at people's honest opinions
If you knew neither of them, and based on a 3 minute interview I'd suggest that most would choose Pardew to go on a general knowledge game show over Big Dave

That doesn't make you racist or disparaging, it's just taking what you see and hear at face value?
I don't think he talks too well in interview, but then I don't really care , if he (and Mr Jones) can train the group during the week and get the most out of them I'm happy..
We are a full week in to the season, we really do have to be a little bit more considered and patience , there are many a team that will set up not to lose to us and many a team that have some good players, we should not sack him yet, we should be free with realistic critics my and we should be grown up enough to accept that others have opinions too.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on August 12, 2018, 10:41:45 PM
Bottom line is, Big Dave's here to manage a squad of professional footballs, and try and win football games based on his assessment of the team and individuals. He may not be a gifted orator in some people's eyes, but that's not his job. The way someone speaks is usually a reflection of their upbringing rather than their intelligence.

Donald Trump/Alan Sugar have a far more limited vocabulary than Big Dave, yet they know how to run a successful business better than 99% of people. Just because someone isn't an eloquent speaker, doesn't mean they're not intelligent.


Oh where to start?

Alan Sugar is a very accomplished businessman who is self-made and was one of the first people to get into the start of the vast computer business. He can speak both eloquently and with purpose.

Donald Trump, however, is an ignorant narcissistic propagandist who squandered his father's money and has left behind him a string of failed businesses, controversial relationships and now looks forward to his chief campaign aides and family being indicted for conspiracy to defraud the electoral process of the United States of America.

Big Dave just plays Chris Brunt in the wrong position.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on August 13, 2018, 06:10:59 AM
In general fans pay too much attention to what Coaches say to the media pre and post match. For the most part it is a minefield which they are seeking to navigate without causing controversy and by convention without throwing their players under the bus.

Was Moore happy with Nyom's performance on Saturday? Probably not but he also knows the player far better than any of us and knows enough to not to hang the player out to dry. That does not mean to say he won't drop him or give him an earful in private.

There are some coaches who are very comfortable in front of the cameras and others less so. Some are so full of bs regardless of their eloquence they are far more embarrassing than any slightly stilted interview that Darren Moore might give.

Pardew was the ultimate smooth operator and exudes confidence and charm. Yet he is the emptiest of empty suits.

Ultimately judge a coach by want happens on the pitch that is their work the shape of the team the tactics what they get out of a group of players is it more or less than could be reasonably be expected?

Yes they are the public face of the club but all we can ask is they conduct themselves with a bit of dignity in sometimes trying circumstances and have a some personal integrity in a job which does not always reward it.

Don't worry too much about Darren's media persona but pray to everything holy that he finds the wisdom to abandon this bloody 4-4-2.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: letmereadposts on August 13, 2018, 08:14:25 AM
Not sure previous managers received such early criticism.

In my opinion, Darren Moore has some hugely undervalued qualities considering the posts we're seeing in this thread.

Big Dave has a level of emotional intelligence and self awareness rarely seen other than those who are top managers. His tactics in midfield are interesting to say the least but let's get something straight here - no one knows our best 11 yet, I totally appreciate he needs time.

In addition he is fully qualified and has an industry leading assistant coach.

I could go on, but I'm just happy we have some identity and integrity back thanks to Darren Moore.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on August 13, 2018, 08:55:28 AM
Leave him alone. He's in charge and I for one will support him for that. He's certainly doing his best in what is possibly one of the more complicated businesses. Yes there are some faults but there are everywhere if you look hard enough. Ok we don't set up as some would like but lets not forget - on Saturday we actually scored 4 goals away from home. That didn't happen in the recent past. So we let 3 in but if you score more than your opponents you will win any game.
Based on previous occupants of the role it would be possible to say that it is easier to defend than attack. TP obviously thought so which was dire. AP tried to attack but lacked any idea. Big Dave is slowly getting things right. We won't just go through this league winning every week. When Reading won it at a canter they lost their first game. Better to start slowly and improve than to implode dramatically mid way through.
Let just be happy - we actually look like we are trying which is something.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: don1thedon on August 13, 2018, 09:30:04 AM
Not sure previous managers received such early criticism.

In my opinion, Darren Moore has some hugely undervalued qualities considering the posts we're seeing in this thread.

Big Dave has a level of emotional intelligence and self awareness rarely seen other than those who are top managers. His tactics in midfield are interesting to say the least but let's get something straight here - no one knows our best 11 yet, I totally appreciate he needs time.

In addition he is fully qualified and has an industry leading assistant coach.

I could go on, but I'm just happy we have some identity and integrity back thanks to Darren Moore.
Great post fella, thanks!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on August 13, 2018, 09:49:39 AM


Oh where to start?

Alan Sugar is a very accomplished businessman who is self-made and was one of the first people to get into the start of the vast computer business. He can speak both eloquently and with purpose.

Donald Trump, however, is an ignorant narcissistic propagandist who squandered his father's money and has left behind him a string of failed businesses, controversial relationships and now looks forward to his chief campaign aides and family being indicted for conspiracy to defraud the electoral process of the United States of America.

Big Dave just plays Chris Brunt in the wrong position.
This made me laugh, thanks, bit of perspective!

At the moment he deos seem to go a bit "Ron Manager" in interviews, but don't they all?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on August 13, 2018, 09:50:46 AM
I know all about abuse that previous managers received, most of it didn't remain on the forum to be seen. I know there is a difference between personal abuse and criticism. Criticism is fine, abuse is not and as such abusive comments will be removed.

I think it might be time for us to step down as it seems plenty of you think you are able to do a better job moderating the forum than we are.

I don't agree Phil, having been on plenty of other fan sites I appreciate how well run [and moderated] this one is. I did come on yesterday afternoon when the DM debate was getting a little tense and had to walk away. I think the recent posting by Letmereadtheposts is absolutely bang on.

So no need to step down, sometimes debates get a little exciting and require management, keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on August 13, 2018, 02:59:07 PM
I think that Dave is different to other head coaches by the way he speaks,its a refreshing honesty that goes against the other so called professionals.
But he knows how many beans make 5.
He has more knowledge about players and football than we will ever know.
He also seems to be a deep thinker about how he wants the club to be.
We've had all the clever dicks and look where it got us,more power to him I say,leave him be.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 14, 2018, 10:41:44 PM
Thought that was superb management by Darren and his team. Showed more awareness than TP has in 4 seasons re League Cup ties against lower league opposition.


Trialled a different system, and made full use of his squad. Made sure he had firepower in the starting line up and on the bench in case things went wrong.


Very pleased.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on August 15, 2018, 09:46:11 AM
I understand the need to give the wider squad competitive minutes and it's good to try a different formation.

However, considering that we have a glaring gap in centre midfield why was Field being played as a centre back?

This makes less sense than playing Robson-Kanu at right back.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 15, 2018, 10:10:29 AM
I understand the need to give the wider squad competitive minutes and it's good to try a different formation.

However, considering that we have a glaring gap in centre midfield why was Field being played as a centre back?

This makes less sense than playing Robson-Kanu at right back.


Because we had no recognised right back available therefore had to play wing backs. The only centre backs available were Bartley, Hegazi and Tosin. Bartley and Hegazi weren't going to be asked to play ninety minutes ahead of Saturday's game so Field being both versatile and left footed was asked to play left centre back and Bartley / Hegazi a half each.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BigFrank20 on August 15, 2018, 10:19:27 AM

Because we had no recognised right back available therefore had to play wing backs. The only centre backs available were Bartley, Hegazi and Tosin. Bartley and Hegazi weren't going to be asked to play ninety minutes ahead of Saturday's game so Field being both versatile and left footed was asked to play left centre back and Bartley / Hegazi a half each.
I'm with you on this and also tend think DM took the ideal opportunity to see how well Tosin went with both Hegazi and Bartley in a competitive situation as opposed to out on the training field
I also thought Field did himself a whole lot of good by being both willing and able to fulfil the role asked of him
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on August 15, 2018, 10:54:17 AM

Because we had no recognised right back available therefore had to play wing backs. The only centre backs available were Bartley, Hegazi and Tosin. Bartley and Hegazi weren't going to be asked to play ninety minutes ahead of Saturday's game so Field being both versatile and left footed was asked to play left centre back and Bartley / Hegazi a half each.

They should be able to play a full game twice per week but I see your logic. This clearly highlights how thin our squad is.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on August 15, 2018, 11:01:04 AM
Pleased for Big Dave that he has got a couple of wins under his belt.

Said after the Forest game, though there were worrying signs, all i wanted to see was the team start to get some identity + method, even if it took a while to achieve, it wasnt going to happen overnight.

So far its been in fits and spurts which is fine, i thought we were poor v Bolton the whole game, for 80 minutes against Forest and for 45 minutes against Norwich.

However first half of the friendly v Coventry (Friendly i know!), last 10 minutes v Forest and the second 45 minutes v Norwich, we were very good, hopefully with more work and with Jones in assisting too, there will be more consistency, like i say for me personally even if it takes time, so be it, its just nice to see an Albion team taking the game to the opposition (at times!)

What it does look like we are going to be is when we are in possession a fast attacking away team, i dont think it will be tikka takka or keep ball for the sake of it, we pass quick sharp and use our pace and its worked well, mainly because we have players suited to that and who are better than most others in the league.

The home approach will be interesting because many teams will shut up shop straight away, frustrate us, try and turn the crowd then have a go (ie - Bolton) There the games Big Dave and Jones need to find a different approach but again given time, lets hope they can.

It must of been quite difficult with so many players linked with leaving and some acting unprofessional (Dawson, Foster and Mclean) but he still has to keep them involved without relying on them because they would of still been around the place, you dont want them becoming rotters. Same applies for Dawson (again), JRod, Gibbs, Hegazi, Chadli - all players it looked like could go or were rumoured to want to go, yet Big Dave still has to work with them and keep them involved without rocking the boat, so far he seems to of done that well and thats credit to him, its a lot to deal with first pre season!

With the window shut he now knows roughly what he has to work with, i like that he wants pace in the team, he is playing the youth, and there are signs every now and then away from home from what this team can do, its quite exciting and as a fan right now, thats all i want!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on August 15, 2018, 07:50:29 PM
Pleased for Big Dave that he has got a couple of wins under his belt.

Said after the Forest game, though there were worrying signs, all i wanted to see was the team start to get some identity + method, even if it took a while to achieve, it wasnt going to happen overnight.

So far its been in fits and spurts which is fine, i thought we were poor v Bolton the whole game, for 80 minutes against Forest and for 45 minutes against Norwich.

However first half of the friendly v Coventry (Friendly i know!), last 10 minutes v Forest and the second 45 minutes v Norwich, we were very good, hopefully with more work and with Jones in assisting too, there will be more consistency, like i say for me personally even if it takes time, so be it, its just nice to see an Albion team taking the game to the opposition (at times!)

What it does look like we are going to be is when we are in possession a fast attacking away team, i dont think it will be tikka takka or keep ball for the sake of it, we pass quick sharp and use our pace and its worked well, mainly because we have players suited to that and who are better than most others in the league.

The home approach will be interesting because many teams will shut up shop straight away, frustrate us, try and turn the crowd then have a go (ie - Bolton) There the games Big Dave and Jones need to find a different approach but again given time, lets hope they can.

It must of been quite difficult with so many players linked with leaving and some acting unprofessional (Dawson, Foster and Mclean) but he still has to keep them involved without relying on them because they would of still been around the place, you dont want them becoming rotters. Same applies for Dawson (again), JRod, Gibbs, Hegazi, Chadli - all players it looked like could go or were rumoured to want to go, yet Big Dave still has to work with them and keep them involved without rocking the boat, so far he seems to of done that well and thats credit to him, its a lot to deal with first pre season!

With the window shut he now knows roughly what he has to work with, i like that he wants pace in the team, he is playing the youth, and there are signs every now and then away from home from what this team can do, its quite exciting and as a fan right now, thats all i want!

Tikka takka?

Sorry but that totally killed me. If you can't play like Barcelona then I guess playing like Bombay is the next best thing. 😭😭😭😭😭
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on August 15, 2018, 10:10:23 PM
The West Midlands is famous for its curries so i thought i would rebrand the football style to suit! Can see it catching on!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on August 15, 2018, 11:32:46 PM
The West Midlands is famous for its curries so i thought i would rebrand the football style to suit! Can see it catching on!

That is a most excellent idea!!!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on August 16, 2018, 01:03:01 AM
I thought he got a lot right last night.

Firstly shape of the team

3-4-1-2 which was a fairly radical departure.

Regardless of the personnel in the various roles this is the sort of move that suggests a greater tactical range than had hitherto been in evidence.

Looking at the personnel Moore seems to have shipped even more criticism for some of selections.

Couple of points the League Cup is not a priority and we have just come off 3 games in 7 days so he had to change things up and it was Luton. If anything he might have been justified in fielding an even weaker starting XI

A lot of people seem to be slagging off the decision to play Field in the 3. It is critical that when we play a 3 at the back at least one of the 3 is good on the ball. Adarabioyo is a bit a of unknown quantity although coming from Man City I would expect him to be at least okay, Hegazi is a little haphazard in his distribution but Field is excellent in this regard.

In the summer England's back three were largely selected for their ability on the ball. In that context Field's selection is logical.

One feature that was consistent is that Moore seems to be determined to play 2 up top. The most significant difference between this set up and the 4-4-2 is it allows for a dedicated "10" and there should be a better link between the front and the back of the team and the transition from defence to attack should be more fluid.

It will be interesting to see if Moore uses this experiment with his full squad, I hope that he does because this could elevate us to a different tactical level.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 16, 2018, 08:47:34 AM
I thought he got a lot right last night.

Firstly shape of the team

3-4-1-2 which was a fairly radical departure.

Regardless of the personnel in the various roles this is the sort of move that suggests a greater tactical range than had hitherto been in evidence.

Looking at the personnel Moore seems to have shipped even more criticism for some of selections.

Couple of points the League Cup is not a priority and we have just come off 3 games in 7 days so he had to change things up and it was Luton. If anything he might have been justified in fielding an even weaker starting XI

A lot of people seem to be slagging off the decision to play Field in the 3. It is critical that when we play a 3 at the back at least one of the 3 is good on the ball. Adarabioyo is a bit a of unknown quantity although coming from Man City I would expect him to be at least okay, Hegazi is a little haphazard in his distribution but Field is excellent in this regard.

In the summer England's back three were largely selected for their ability on the ball. In that context Field's selection is logical.

One feature that was consistent is that Moore seems to be determined to play 2 up top. The most significant difference between this set up and the 4-4-2 is it allows for a dedicated "10" and there should be a better link between the front and the back of the team and the transition from defence to attack should be more fluid.

It will be interesting to see if Moore uses this experiment with his full squad, I hope that he does because this could elevate us to a different tactical level.


It would also rule out the need to sign a right back. In fact if you look at our squad it would leave all bases covered and personnel-wise it suits:

                               
                                                   Johnstone
                                                   Myhill

                          Dawson             Bartley               Hegazi
                          Nyom                Adarabioyo         Field

Phillips                            Livermore             Brunt                           Gibbs
Edwards                          Morrison               Harper                         Townsend
                                                                  Barry

                                                   Barnes
                                                   Chadli
                                                   Leko

                                      Rodriguez              Gayle
                                      Robson-Kanu         Burke


It will be interesting to see if we use this sort of system as a default moving forward or whether Big Dave thought it was the only way to line up against Luton given the squad of players available / he wanted to use.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on August 16, 2018, 09:22:33 AM
I really like Darren Moore and think he is doing OK.
Its his first gig, he's going to make mistakes like all managers. He'll be measured by how he responds after a loss.
My worry is will there be mass hysteria when he's sacked/leaves by mutual consent.
Like it or not that's how this will end
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 16, 2018, 09:38:06 AM
What about if he gets another job like Hodgson & Mowbray ?

3 straight wins if we win Saturday. That'll make a great change compared to what we went through last season
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 16, 2018, 09:44:19 AM
What about if he gets another job like Hodgson & Mowbray ?


I think Big Dave is unique in that I really don't think he'd leave Albion to go anywhere else. I know players / managers have affinities with clubs and they move on but Darren Moore is probably the most honest, humble and genuine man you could ever meet. He adores the Albion and I honestly don't think he'd go anywhere to "further his career".
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on August 16, 2018, 09:57:12 AM


It will be interesting to see if we use this sort of system as a default moving forward or whether Big Dave thought it was the only way to line up against Luton given the squad of players available / he wanted to use.

IMO the fact that it was a knock-out tournament meant that Luton had to come here to win.

On Saturday, we have to set up to win the game, but QPR could be happy not to lose.

That might mean a different mindset on how we approach the game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on August 16, 2018, 10:01:32 AM
IMO the fact that it was a knock-out tournament meant that Luton had to come here to win.

On Saturday, we have to set up to win the game, but QPR could be happy not to lose.

That might mean a different mindset on how we approach the game.
And you would think 352 gives us much better attacking options, we really have to win this
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tylerm on August 16, 2018, 10:14:12 AM
And you would think 352 gives us much better attacking options, we really have to win this

Hopefully we have learnt from the Bolton game. We will get nowhere in this division trying to contain at home. We need to be on the front foot which is why Brunt and Livermore barely crossing the half way line gifted the game to Bolton
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BigFrank20 on August 16, 2018, 10:36:40 AM
3 straight wins if we win Saturday. That'll make a great change compared to what we went through last season
When was the last time we won 3 on the bounce? I'm guessing quite some time ago
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on August 16, 2018, 10:42:47 AM
And you would think 352 gives us much better attacking options, we really have to win this

I don't know enough about QPR's strengths & weaknesses to comment.

They've had a pretty torrid time of it so far, so you would think that Mclaren would set them up to keep the game tight & nick it on the break, but I don't know what resources they have to do that.
On the other hand, they've conceded 3 goals in 2 games against our 6 in 3 games, but we've scored 6 against their 1.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on August 16, 2018, 10:47:26 AM
When was the last time we won 3 on the bounce? I'm guessing quite some time ago

August last year

Bournemouth at home 1-0
Burnley away 1-0
Accrington Stanley away 3-1
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on August 17, 2018, 05:20:03 PM
Whilst I can level criticisms at Darren Moore over his cm pairing and lack of subs there isn't much else I can criticise him for. His assistant was a solid choice we look like we're evolving into a good footballing side. Whilst he hasn't given the youth as much as a chance as we had hoped field in particular. Field and Harper got 90 mins in Cup, Edwards 45 mins and leko 30. He also used his squad well that night.

Best thing I can say about big dave is he has got rid of and improved on some of the weaker elements of our squad.
McLean replaced by Barnes
Nyom gone (replacement incoming)
Foster (not weak but aging- replacement younger hungrier and full of potential)

A win on Saturday will further enhance his start. He still has a 50% win rate with us (3/6 last season and 2/4 including cup this season)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on August 17, 2018, 06:22:15 PM
What's Dave's unbeaten rate %?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on August 17, 2018, 06:31:35 PM
What's Dave's unbeaten rate %?

50% I believe in the 10 matches he has been in charge, but will stand corrected
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 17, 2018, 06:37:31 PM
What's Dave's unbeaten rate %?


80 percent


We've only lost 2 games under him (out of 10)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on August 17, 2018, 06:51:30 PM

80 percent


We've only lost 2 games under him (out of 10)

80% Correct, Won 5, (50%) Drawn 3, (30%) Lost 2, (20%). Unbeaten 80% as per Jacko's post 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on August 17, 2018, 06:58:20 PM
80% Correct, Won 5, (50%) Drawn 3, (30%) Lost 2, (20%). Unbeaten 80% as per Jacko's post 

You can’t argue with them stats.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on August 17, 2018, 10:08:31 PM
You can’t argue with them stats.
I'm sure some will though. He's doing very well, we are a work in progress
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on August 17, 2018, 11:27:19 PM
Yeah, he'll never win over some. Which is a shame considering the legend that he is to the club.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 17, 2018, 11:33:46 PM
Yeah, he'll never win over some. Which is a shame considering the legend that he is to the club.

that word again, he's not a legend, he's a modern day favourite and rightly so.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: saml30 on August 17, 2018, 11:58:52 PM
that word again, he's not a legend, he's a modern day favourite and rightly so.

Define the two In your opinion?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 18, 2018, 12:16:39 AM
Define the two In your opinion?

Rather than fill this topic with other stuff, i'll start a new topic so people can give their view on it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on August 18, 2018, 12:20:02 AM
that word again, he's not a legend, he's a modern day favourite and rightly so.

Its subjective to the beholder. In my time supporting the Albion (i'm 32) he's a legend.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 18, 2018, 12:22:42 AM
Its subjective to the beholder. In my time supporting the Albion (i'm 32) he's a legend.

As I said new topic started to avoid filling this topic up (I know you are talking about Darren Moore but no doubt others will be mentioned)

I agree though its down to individuals to choose who they see as legends, i'm 49 and don't see him as one.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 18, 2018, 05:07:08 PM
So much for being dumb and tactically inept aye lads
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 18, 2018, 05:13:06 PM
Clueless...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on August 18, 2018, 05:16:25 PM
So much nonsense and knee-jerk reaction about Moore. He has shown tactical intelligence, flexibility and bravery.

No doubt he will have his ups and downs, and I could see a scenario where we lose on Friday, but we should praise Moore for how he has given players and formations a chance, and then gradually developed and improved from there.

And its encouraging that there is still loads of work to be done. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on August 18, 2018, 05:17:00 PM
Clueless...

It was a good result and I'm happy for him. Bet you're gutted you can't lay into Robson-Kanu seeing as he scored.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 18, 2018, 05:18:01 PM
It was a good result and I'm happy for him. Bet you're gutted you can't lay into Robson-Kanu seeing as he scored.


No mate, not remotely gutted...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on August 18, 2018, 05:22:11 PM
It was a good result and I'm happy for him. Bet you're gutted you can't lay into Robson-Kanu seeing as he scored.

Bet you're gutted you can't lay into Moore's intelligence... ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Cantello on August 18, 2018, 05:27:31 PM
Big Dave yaaaaaaaaaaaaay!  :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kris_boing on August 18, 2018, 05:28:36 PM
Well done Darren Moore. That is the formation to go with from now on. Suits us much better.

We are definitely going to get bigger tests but that result will do the players the world of good.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on August 18, 2018, 06:00:49 PM
Bet you're gutted you can't lay into Moore's intelligence... ;D

Well i could but you wouldn't understand it! 😅😅😅😅
Seriously I hope I'm proven wrong and today, although one game, has moved towards that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheBrom on August 18, 2018, 06:40:53 PM
3 at the back certainly worked as it did against Luton midweek. Just need to sort the centre midfield and we’ll have a decent chance
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on August 18, 2018, 07:14:04 PM
I hoped that he would stick with 3 at the back and playing Barnes in the 10 role but never thought it would turn out so well. Delighted for Darren and his coaching team as he got that right. Okay we can quibble about central mid and I would also say looking at our distribution from the back that playing Field at Centre Back wasn't the worst decision.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on August 18, 2018, 07:32:17 PM
What a result.

Getting the nagatives out of the way first, we reslly need to start to win headers in our box. So many goals being conceeded after the opposition play head tennis in our box. Dawson might be the answer.

Also a shame not to see Edwards and Burke getting time off the bench after their modweek performances.

Onto the positives, Moore realised the issues we were having the in the middle and has shaken it up in an imaginative, (and so far) very effective way. Who knew Barnes was not just an exciting wide man, but also a great central attacking midfielder as well.

The new formation gives us so much attacking threat. Chadli still to come in, Burke, Edwards, HRK (great scoring record under Moore), Morrison at a stretch and also Leko also, that's a lot of strength in depth in attacking positions.

Credit to Moore and his back room team, proven me and other wrong in the last 2 games. Long may it continue.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on August 18, 2018, 07:52:53 PM
Wasn't at the game but seems a good piece of management bringing on Barry when he did. It's obvious Barry's not a fans favorite and he's also been through a very difficult time personally. If ever there was a time to re-introduce him it was today. Still a good player who could have an important role to play down the line.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: saml30 on August 18, 2018, 07:56:39 PM
Hard to criticise after such a big win but for me I didn’t see the point of bringing on Barry, Morrison and Kanu when we were clearly winning the game, surely some of the younger players should have got the chance
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on August 18, 2018, 09:14:08 PM
Hard to criticise after such a big win but for me I didn’t see the point of bringing on Barry, Morrison and Kanu when we were clearly winning the game, surely some of the younger players should have got the chance

Your right nothing to criticize :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: CL3MO on August 18, 2018, 09:56:40 PM
Big well done today to Darren and the team.

I thought first half was poor but had faith in the system and the way we were playing and it proved extremely effective in the end.

More of the same please! (But please, for the love of god, somebody sort out defending the set pieces...)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: we8seals on August 19, 2018, 08:54:07 AM
Your right nothing to criticize :)
Use of subs is a totally valid criticism. It has been a weakness in every game. Not using the opportunity to give one or two of the younger players game time seems daft to me. (Particularly Fiekd). How on earth are we going to find out if they are good enough?
Oddly I thought two of the stand out performances came from two on loan younger players- what does that say about our much vaunted youth set up?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 19, 2018, 10:11:31 AM
Use of subs is a totally valid criticism. It has been a weakness in every game. Not using the opportunity to give one or two of the younger players game time seems daft to me. (Particularly Fiekd). How on earth are we going to find out if they are good enough?
Oddly I thought two of the stand out performances came from two on loan younger players- what does that say about our much vaunted youth set up?


The substitutions yielded a goal and 2 assists... the young players got their game time in midweek.


Think it's time to accept they're unlikely to get regular league minutes due to the strength of the squad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: koren on August 19, 2018, 10:54:26 AM

The substitutions yielded a goal and 2 assists... the young players got their game time in midweek.


Think it's time to accept they're unlikely to get regular league minutes due to the strength of the squad.
I agree that we have some quality options on the bench, especially the central midfielder role.
That's why I think Field should be loaned out, rather than stay here and play few cup games only in whole season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 19, 2018, 11:19:31 AM

The substitutions yielded a goal and 2 assists... the young players got their game time in midweek.


Think it's time to accept they're unlikely to get regular league minutes due to the strength of the squad.


Yeah but to be fair QPR fell apart after the forth goal.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 19, 2018, 11:23:36 AM

Yeah but to be fair QPR fell apart after the forth goal.


Isn't stopping others waxing lyrical about Gareth Barry  :-X
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 19, 2018, 11:25:27 AM

Isn't stopping others waxing lyrical about Gareth Barry  :-X


I know. I thought Barry did Ok but nothing special. I'd seriously worry about him against other sides he's painfully slow and he'll get over-run.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 19, 2018, 11:55:58 AM
Poor subs every game ?

Only Bolton game for me. Bringing Gayle on at forest Gained us a point & we've won 3 others...

Experience sees out games professional.

Richardson was taking the **** out of Southampton yesterday 2-0 up then he got absolutely snapped in half.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on August 19, 2018, 01:19:26 PM
Best thing about today...

All those criticising DM can STFU !!! Love it. Back in your boxes boys. 😂🤣😀😎😋

Wait, that's the best thing about today? Not the fact we git our biggest win in a decade, the fact we have found a system that seems to unleash our biggest threats or the fact that we are now showing signs of being title contenders.

What you enjoyed most was the chance to slag off other fans?

Interesting way of looking at it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on August 19, 2018, 01:24:46 PM

The substitutions yielded a goal and 2 assists... the young players got their game time in midweek.


Think it's time to accept they're unlikely to get regular league minutes due to the strength of the squad.

While i'm not sure I agree, it is hard to argue with that. The subs were a success with Morrison and Robson-Kanu having an impact and it being the perfect chance to bring Barry in.

Maybe we just have a lot more strength in depth that we realise. Feeling more positive now that Barnes can play centrally, and we have a system that negates the need for a true right back (not to mention Phillips and Burke being able to play as strikers in this system).

Credit where it is due to Moore.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 19, 2018, 01:29:28 PM
While i'm not sure I agree, it is hard to argue with that. The subs were a success with Morrison and Robson-Kanu having an impact and it being the perfect chance to bring Barry in.

Maybe we just have a lot more strength in depth that we realise. Feeling more positive now that Barnes can play centrally, and we have a system that negates the need for a true right back (not to mention Phillips and Burke being able to play as strikers in this system).

Credit where it is due to Moore.


One thing that concerns me. Had Phillips gone off injured yesterday who would've played at right wing back?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on August 19, 2018, 01:33:48 PM
Folks much as I do not want to be a killjoy, lets remember that DM has said that he will tailor the "style" to the type of opposition. Yesterday was brilliant but if DM is good to his word, (and there is no reason to doubt this) we can expect a few less expansive games and 'boro away is likely to be one of these IMO
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 19, 2018, 01:39:11 PM
Folks much as I do not want to be a killjoy, lets remember that DM has said that he will tailor the "style" to the type of opposition. Yesterday was brilliant but if DM is good to his word, (and there is no reason to doubt this) we can expect a few less expansive games and 'boro away is likely to be one of these IMO


I agree and that's a good thing. Adjusting to nullify the opposition is a huge positive. Pulis will have Boro slinging everything into the box. We need Dawson in there.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on August 19, 2018, 02:08:40 PM
Happy with result, system, player's and coaching staff but slight concern that younger player's didn't come off bench when let's be frank Qpr had given up. Yesterday would have been ideal for Burke to get a few minutes to boost his confidence. As for going forward agree with lots of posts that Dawson needs to be starting as he is our best center half and with regards to recruitment player's that Darren has identified need to be brought in
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on August 19, 2018, 08:10:18 PM
I think Darren Moore deserves a bit of credit - he and the coaching staff have demonstrated in the last week or so that they can be football thinkers and are prepared to try something new. My fear was that Moore would have been stubborn and persisted with a flat 442, to the detriment of the players, but he showed his ability to mix it up and try something new and that deserves applauding and show signs of someone who is prepared to learn from his mistakes.

The formation that we have seen in the last two football matches suits this group of footballers - it allows a bit more protection for Brunt and Livermore, it allows Kieran Gibbs to be more flexible and provide us with genuine width. The important ingreident is having Harvey Barnes in the middle who can link the attack and midfield. The problem we faced in our opening two matches is that any of our attacking moves broke down because there was nobody to link our forwards and the midfield. Barnes provides that missing link with not only a good passing range but with the ease in which he moves the ball. Barnes allows us the platform to get the best out of Gayle and Rodriguez

I am expecting us to be more conservative away from home, I don't think we will go around and try to rail-road teams, but yesterday was everything I want to see from a side at The Hawthorns. There was pace in the squad, there was energy, we pressed to get the ball back as quickly as we could and furthermore we were clinical with our opportunities. To be honest, at 3-1 we could have easily shut up shop and saw the game out. I was impressed that rather than seeing the game out we chased more opportunities and more goals. If we get that every week, then every single one of us will be happy.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on August 19, 2018, 08:27:09 PM
I think Darren Moore deserves a bit of credit - he and the coaching staff have demonstrated in the last week or so that they can be football thinkers and are prepared to try something new. My fear was that Moore would have been stubborn and persisted with a flat 442, to the detriment of the players, but he showed his ability to mix it up and try something new and that deserves applauding and show signs of someone who is prepared to learn from his mistakes.

The formation that we have seen in the last two football matches suits this group of footballers - it allows a bit more protection for Brunt and Livermore, it allows Kieran Gibbs to be more flexible and provide us with genuine width. The important ingreident is having Harvey Barnes in the middle who can link the attack and midfield. The problem we faced in our opening two matches is that any of our attacking moves broke down because there was nobody to link our forwards and the midfield. Barnes provides that missing link with not only a good passing range but with the ease in which he moves the ball. Barnes allows us the platform to get the best out of Gayle and Rodriguez

I am expecting us to be more conservative away from home, I don't think we will go around and try to rail-road teams, but yesterday was everything I want to see from a side at The Hawthorns. There was pace in the squad, there was energy, we pressed to get the ball back as quickly as we could and furthermore we were clinical with our opportunities. To be honest, at 3-1 we could have easily shut up shop and saw the game out. I was impressed that rather than seeing the game out we chased more opportunities and more goals. If we get that every week, then every single one of us will be happy.

at 3-1 we could have easily shut up shop and saw the game out. I was impressed that rather than seeing the game out we chased more opportunities and more goals

This is the major change in philosophy which the club needed, football is about winning games and scoring goals and ENTERTAINING, it seems that the new team get this, thank god, there are signs that we we may be in danger of getting our club back !!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on August 19, 2018, 08:44:20 PM
I think Darren Moore deserves a bit of credit - he and the coaching staff have demonstrated in the last week or so that they can be football thinkers and are prepared to try something new. My fear was that Moore would have been stubborn and persisted with a flat 442, to the detriment of the players, but he showed his ability to mix it up and try something new and that deserves applauding and show signs of someone who is prepared to learn from his mistakes.

The formation that we have seen in the last two football matches suits this group of footballers - it allows a bit more protection for Brunt and Livermore, it allows Kieran Gibbs to be more flexible and provide us with genuine width. The important ingreident is having Harvey Barnes in the middle who can link the attack and midfield. The problem we faced in our opening two matches is that any of our attacking moves broke down because there was nobody to link our forwards and the midfield. Barnes provides that missing link with not only a good passing range but with the ease in which he moves the ball. Barnes allows us the platform to get the best out of Gayle and Rodriguez

I am expecting us to be more conservative away from home, I don't think we will go around and try to rail-road teams, but yesterday was everything I want to see from a side at The Hawthorns. There was pace in the squad, there was energy, we pressed to get the ball back as quickly as we could and furthermore we were clinical with our opportunities. To be honest, at 3-1 we could have easily shut up shop and saw the game out. I was impressed that rather than seeing the game out we chased more opportunities and more goals. If we get that every week, then every single one of us will be happy.

Agreed. Really encouraging and the coaching staff have proved that they are open minded and inventive. Fantastic to see.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on August 20, 2018, 07:12:54 AM
I spent 3 years moaning about Pulis/Pardew because they couldn't or wouldn't evolve their tactics regardless of the players they had in the squad. My criticism of Darren was that the tactics weren't quite working and didn't fit the players he had and within weeks he has identified the issues and done something about it.

Nobody could have expected his tactical switch to work as spectacularly as it did and even if it hadn't the important and refreshing thing is that he was willing to do something different. Maybe it is function of inexperience a coach without hundred's of games of confirmation bias or just that he is a different generation of coach whose education has had more influences from outside the closed shop of the English game.

With regard to substitutions I wouldn't be critical often pundits overstate their importance yes a coach can influence the game through changes of personnel but there is a lot of guff spouted on the issue. Player subbed on scores  it's a stroke of genius fluffs easy chance it's a mistake whereas in all probability it was neither. Incidentally Darren got a goal and an assist out of the substitutions on Saturday but I honestly think the state QPR were in at the time it didn't matter who was on the pitch that was always likely to have happened.     

Overall Darren has had a very good week and everything he has done has worked. I hope fans remember this when things don't go so well, he still needs to be given time but the signs are encouraging.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on August 20, 2018, 08:31:53 AM
I spent 3 years moaning about Pulis/Pardew because they couldn't or wouldn't evolve their tactics regardless of the players they had in the squad. My criticism of Darren was that the tactics weren't quite working and didn't fit the players he had and within weeks he has identified the issues and done something about it.

Nobody could have expected his tactical switch to work as spectacularly as it did and even if it hadn't the important and refreshing thing is that he was willing to do something different. Maybe it is function of inexperience a coach without hundred's of games of confirmation bias or just that he is a different generation of coach whose education has had more influences from outside the closed shop of the English game.

With regard to substitutions I wouldn't be critical often pundits overstate their importance yes a coach can influence the game through changes of personnel but there is a lot of guff spouted on the issue. Player subbed on scores  it's a stroke of genius fluffs easy chance it's a mistake whereas in all probability it was neither. Incidentally Darren got a goal and an assist out of the substitutions on Saturday but I honestly think the state QPR were in at the time it didn't matter who was on the pitch that was always likely to have happened.     

Overall Darren has had a very good week and everything he has done has worked. I hope fans remember this when things don't go so well, he still needs to be given time but the signs are encouraging.

I remember an interview I think it was with Brunt after Pardrew had left where he said that Pardew tried to change to much to quickly and the players did not know what they were doing. When Darren Moore took over he reverted back to what the players knew and got instant results. I think that was a lesson he learnt from someone else's mistake and has been introducing a more gradual shift over the last few games and waited for Graeme Jones to come in and help with that shift to a new style of football.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on August 20, 2018, 09:38:58 AM
When QPR scored my brother looked at me and said "I wish we had conceded first and scored, we could fold up now" That was based around previous experience of what we had witnessed during tenure of TP and AP. In that situation with them in charge we would not have got back into most games and just plodded on. Well we all know what happened on Saturday and wasn't it so refreshing. We've put down a marker now and whilst we know there are games where we have to slug it out, opposition teams will be pretty wary of us because we've got goals all over the place and they won't want to relax against us.
More of it please - let's enjoy the ride.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mr Cynical on August 20, 2018, 06:09:23 PM

I know. I thought Barry did Ok but nothing special. I'd seriously worry about him against other sides he's painfully slow and he'll get over-run.

Same happens to Brunt every game, two bookings for pulling players back after being mugged and a penalty given away in pretty much the same fashion.  He wants too much time on the ball and isn't mobile enough to evade the pressing player(s).  I think Field would do a better job than either of them.  Plus I was disappointed for Harper (who I thought was MotM in the week) deserved to be on the bench ahead of Barry IMO.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 20, 2018, 09:38:47 PM
Same happens to Brunt every game, two bookings for pulling players back after being mugged and a penalty given away in pretty much the same fashion.  He wants too much time on the ball and isn't mobile enough to evade the pressing player(s).  I think Field would do a better job than either of them.  Plus I was disappointed for Harper (who I thought was MotM in the week) deserved to be on the bench ahead of Barry IMO.
Yes Rakeem earned a place on that bench for sure.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on August 23, 2018, 02:22:16 AM
For those who don't think Darren Moore is a good manager he got 6 million for McLean and replaced him with Harvey Barnes...:) Will go down in Albion folklore
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on August 23, 2018, 06:48:03 AM
He's not a good manager mate,he's a good head coach though.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Joust on August 23, 2018, 07:31:37 AM
He's not a good manager mate,he's a good head coach though.

Can you elaborate ..?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on August 23, 2018, 07:37:33 AM
I’m a big fan of the trust he has of his team. Heavily delegated roles for Jones and Cutler. Seems like he lets them get on with it and gives them a lot of freedom.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 23, 2018, 08:11:35 AM
Can you elaborate ..?

think Liver was referring to Moore's job title rather than anything about his ability to do the job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on August 23, 2018, 10:46:42 AM
For those who don't think Darren Moore is a good manager he got 6 million for McLean and replaced him with Harvey Barnes...:) Will go down in Albion folklore

Barnes is on loan though, if DM can get him signed up that would be impressive.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on August 23, 2018, 11:19:17 AM
Barnes is on loan though, if DM can get him signed up that would be impressive.

Forget the Barnes part of the equation... he got £6m for McLean...genius itself!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on August 23, 2018, 11:49:14 AM
Your quite right Hull.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on August 23, 2018, 12:13:29 PM
Forget the Barnes part of the equation... he got £6m for McLean...genius itself!

I couldn't agree more with that !

great train robbers, bonnie & clyde, Ned kelly all would have been proud of that one
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie53 on August 23, 2018, 12:42:09 PM
Forget the Barnes part of the equation... he got £6m for McLean...genius itself!
Except that big Dave wouldn't have anything to do with the fee. It would be the much criticised Jenkins doing the haggling
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on August 23, 2018, 04:49:07 PM
Happy that Darren is doing well with no support from board it seems, no DOF appointed to help out Moore with transfer targets but one will be appointed after transfer window is closed that beggar's belief
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on August 23, 2018, 05:48:04 PM
Happy that Darren is doing well with no support from board it seems, no DOF appointed to help out Moore with transfer targets but one will be appointed after transfer window is closed that beggar's belief
There will have been cheaper options than Graeme Jones as assistant manager and I suspect that's the main appointment Moore wanted during this window. It's the old chestnut, a DOF could actually get in the way of Moore and Jones bringing in the players they want.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ranvir wba90 on August 24, 2018, 09:49:04 PM
Tactically not good enough again. Keep insisting with brunt in midfield. Taking off barnes again we lost impetus. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on August 24, 2018, 10:06:05 PM
Thought we played well tonight  8) hope that's only for cameras Darren because we were awful. Brunt is not the answer in midfield and if you and Jones can't see this then you won't be here long I'm afraid
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie96 on August 24, 2018, 10:15:43 PM
We were starting to run the game through Barnes, but then Morrison came on and did well. Maybe should have taken brunt off. Got done by a sucker punch by a Pulis team, not the first and probably won’t be the last. Move on to the next game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hunsletbaggie on August 24, 2018, 10:23:37 PM
Barnes is on loan though, if DM can get him signed up that would be impressive.
Wouldn't worry about that Barnes is destined for bigger and better things than us.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on August 24, 2018, 10:31:42 PM
Very, very quiet on this thread tonight. It's almost as though some of the loudmouths shot their bolt a little prematurely after the thrashing of QPR.

Tactics were all wrong tonight and not for the first time. This demonstrates that Darren is far from a competent manager at this level.

We've gambled on him big time. Still hope that he can come good for the team but boy he needs to learn quickly.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on August 24, 2018, 10:36:22 PM
Watched this team live three times this season and each time we have been poor. Bolton at home Forest away and now boro away. With the game at home to Bolton I was shocked by the way the center halves were pumping balls over the top by passing midfield which to be honest was over run. Forest was an eye opener with the lack of tactical thinking coming from sideline and we looked naive as a team and I still can't believe how we got point in that game. Tonight persisting with Brunt in midfield cost us the game as well as head scratching substitutions. Darren I hope will be ruthless with players who aren't performing but I hope he would be courageous and bring on younger hungrier players that he has at his disposal.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on August 24, 2018, 10:36:39 PM
We won 7-1 against QPR and we’re quite rightly overjoyed at the result.

We lost 1-0 away to Pulis’ top of the table team. Poor performance by the sounds of it. Never mind, we go on.

No need to get the knives out.

It seems as though there is no middle position, you can only be angry or over the moon.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on August 24, 2018, 10:46:21 PM
We won 7-1 against QPR and we’re quite rightly overjoyed at the result.

We lost 1-0 away to Pulis’ top of the table team. Poor performance by the sounds of it. Never mind, we go on.

No need to get the knives out.

It seems as though there is no middle position, you can only be angry or over the moon.

I agree, but at the same time we will probably be around 12th this time tomorrow when the other teams have played their respective games - that's 5 games in. After day 1 our fans were saying 'judge Moore after 5 games' etc - and the table doesn't lie.

In my opinion, he will either get better at set-pieces and make the play-offs, or he will continually struggle and we will finish mid-table.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Nathan on August 24, 2018, 10:46:49 PM
Very, very quiet on this thread tonight. It's almost as though some of the loudmouths shot their bolt a little prematurely after the thrashing of QPR.

Tactics were all wrong tonight and not for the first time. This demonstrates that Darren is far from a competent manager at this level.

We've gambled on him big time. Still hope that he can come good for the team but boy he needs to learn quickly.

Quite right. We've beaten Norwich and QPR who will be amongst the worst 6 sides in this division come the end of the season and everyone has seemed to wet their pants with excitement. The first half performance against both those terrible sides was no better than the opposition we faced. Tonight was woeful, Darren Moore looks like a rabbit in the headlights both in front of the media and on the touchline. Didn't want him at the end of last season and don't want him now. He got the job on the basis of an improved set of results in the last 6 games of last season when the fact is the club could have appointed ME as caretaker manager and seen an improvement in performance and results purely for the reason that the players were no longer playing for the pair of c***s we had in charge previously.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 24, 2018, 10:51:44 PM
That 50 percent win rate is dreadful, an Albion side/manager losing to an inferior Pulis managed team? Fancy that.



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on August 24, 2018, 11:09:34 PM
That 50 percent win rate is dreadful, an Albion side/manager losing to an inferior Pulis managed team? Fancy that.
his win rate is 40% in the season that matters. he will need to get it higher if we want an automatic spot,might scrape the play offs if the current rate continued.
gut feeling it will take more than 1 season for Moore to get this team playing the way he wants and the personnel needed to achieve it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on August 24, 2018, 11:12:41 PM
We won 7-1 against QPR and we’re quite rightly overjoyed at the result.

We lost 1-0 away to Pulis’ top of the table team. Poor performance by the sounds of it. Never mind, we go on.

No need to get the knives out.

It seems as though there is no middle position, you can only be angry or over the moon.
.. or accepting. ☺️
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on August 25, 2018, 04:24:00 AM
I like how Darren Moore has tried to freshen up our footballing ethos. And in lots of ways he has steadied the ship. The club was rotten and still has issues which I doubt will just vanish straight away.

I can't dislike the man because at least he tries to play football the right way. Unfortunately he is still learning and in many ways is naive. He needs to earn his stripes and make some hard decisions. He needs to decide how to fix centre midfield, he needs to make bold decisions and stop playing people on reputation Rodriquez Gibbs brunt Livermore etc
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 25, 2018, 04:59:03 AM
Experience won(pulis)
We have to be patient. It's 5 games for **** sake. First defeat since opening day against a team who is expected to challenge. Pulis has had 2 windows with boro and has been backed. Wouldn't  say Moore has been fully backed.

If we sack Moore then the club had gone against what I'd say would be around 80% of fans have wished for over the past few years.
We are still in a switching over period with our style of play. We need to give him
The January window and see where we are end of the season.
If we sack him before then it's an absolute disgrace and everyone above him deserves hell, we would be in An even bigger mess.

I'm glad most are behind moore and have faith in him. I'm 100% the fans will not turn against him at games(how many of you on here(armchairs)  who called for
Him to be sacked already has started a Moore out chant ? No one. No one has the balls, they know they'll be laughed at.

If things do get pooh on the pitch then direct it at the players who was here last season.


We will still challenge. At least top 6
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 25, 2018, 05:01:20 AM
Does anyone know where wolves/Cardiff/Fulham/villa/boro and the other team who
Got into play offs(forgot who) was after 5 games last season ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mank baggie on August 25, 2018, 05:56:23 AM
Does anyone know where wolves/Cardiff/Fulham/villa/boro and the other team who
Got into play offs(forgot who) was after 5 games last season ?

No
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: stokelad84 on August 25, 2018, 08:07:34 AM
Does anyone know where wolves/Cardiff/Fulham/villa/boro and the other team who
Got into play offs(forgot who) was after 5 games last season ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40983499

Cardiff were top. Wolves were 4th.

Boro 9th, Derby 12th, Fulham 14th, Villa 18th.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hunsletbaggie on August 25, 2018, 09:14:51 AM
Don't like to knock Big Dave too much but taking Harvey Barnes off last night just when he looked like he could make something happen was quite baffling to me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on August 25, 2018, 09:33:00 AM
Personally I think he'll be replaced by New Year  >:(
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on August 25, 2018, 09:46:53 AM
Don't like to knock Big Dave too much but taking Harvey Barnes off last night just when he looked like he could make something happen was quite baffling to me.

The logic of the change seemed to be ",Morrison is an attacking mid and Barnes is an attacking mod so we will swap them". The problem with that is you aren't actually changing anything at all. Barnes didn't look tired and while Morrison came on and did well, Boro were not facing anything they hadn't already been facing for the 75 minutes previously.

We really needed a change to the shape of our midfield as we were being overrun by Howson and the only way to do that was either to change formation, or change the shape and dynamic of the centre of our midfield. That meant Morrison or Field for Brunt/Livermore. Would have changed from 2 very deep midfielders to one who can play more advanced.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on August 25, 2018, 10:00:02 AM
The logic of the change seemed to be ",Morrison is an attacking mid and Barnes is an attacking mod so we will swap them". The problem with that is you aren't actually changing anything at all. Barnes didn't look tired and while Morrison came on and did well, Boro were not facing anything they hadn't already been facing for the 75 minutes previously.

We really needed a change to the shape of our midfield as we were being overrun by Howson and the only way to do that was either to change formation, or change the shape and dynamic of the centre of our midfield. That meant Morrison or Field for Brunt/Livermore. Would have changed from 2 very deep midfielders to one who can play more advanced.

I suspect DM's thinking was to bring on some 'more experienced heads' to help see the game out. I didn't think anything needed changing mayself as I thought we looked pretty comfortable and were looking increasingly dangerous as well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: koren on August 25, 2018, 10:09:18 AM
For the midfield problem, he wanted a new midfielder throughout the summer but the board fail to sign one. It's a mistake form the board.
But if you can't find a solution from the transfer market, you have to find it from the bench.
We have Field or Barry, which will bring different qualities to the midfield.
It's still early days for the season and his managerial career, hopefully he is willing to make changes and explore more options in the coming games.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 25, 2018, 10:29:23 AM
If he does not change his mind about Brunt, he will get himself the sack.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on August 25, 2018, 11:46:15 AM
If he does not change his mind about Brunt, he will get himself the sack.

Agreed, very worrying he cannot see this.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wollastonbaggie on August 25, 2018, 12:25:33 PM
He's obviously come to a decision about who he wants to play in midfield and he's not  going to change it on the strength of 1 or 2 games, especially off the back of 2 wins. Once people make a decision it takes time for them to conclude they got it wrong and try something else. It might happen but not overnight.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 25, 2018, 12:29:25 PM
He's obviously come to a decision about who he wants to play in midfield and he's not  going to change it on the strength of 1 or 2 games, especially off the back of 2 wins. Once people make a decision it takes time for them to conclude they got it wrong and try something else. It might happen but not overnight.

The sign of a top coach is changing things that are not right even when you are winning games
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on August 25, 2018, 03:41:30 PM
just back from Middlesborough,the Barnes substitution was one of the most baffling I have ever seen,not one single albion fan would agree with Dave on this one,in the minutes prior to his substitution barnes had ripped them open twice,we were just getting to grips with the game,and he is the only one who was and who could damage them,i said to my partner Barnes is either going to score or put one on a plate for someone very shortly,unbelievable Dave
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 25, 2018, 04:01:18 PM
just back from Middlesborough,the Barnes substitution was one of the most baffling I have ever seen,not one single albion fan would agree with Dave on this one,in the minutes prior to his substitution barnes had ripped them open twice,we were just getting to grips with the game,and he is the only one who was and who could damage them,i said to my partner Barnes is either going to score or put one on a plate for someone very shortly,unbelievable Dave


Agree with that. It was our best spell of the game as well we were looking most likely. Dave takes Barnes off and our threat and momentum is gone. Utterly stupid substitution, sorry but it was.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on August 25, 2018, 04:05:33 PM
I think last night summed up that we are definitely a work in progress under Big Dave!

The key thing when your in transition is seeing the mistakes and not keep repeating them, the glaring mistake at the moment is the Brunt and Livermore combination.

I dont think Brunt is finished, he still has something to offer but his role should now be a left back or left midfielder if we revert back to 442 or 451, i feel for him as he is being played out of position and it shows, its affecting him and affecting the team.

This is a real big situation for Moore, if he sticks with Brunt and Livermore we wont progress too much, he needs to have the balls to drop Brunt and change his role at the club, it happens to most players and wont be easy, but time waits for nobody and Moore is the one who has to deal with the Brunt situation.

Brunty is a club stalwart, never let us down but also has the added factor he is captain, if i was Big Dave i would pull him to one side, say he is still important to us (which he will be) when we play 442 or 451 (which we will need to at times) he will be involved. I also wouldnt make a big fuss about demoting him as captain, there doesnt need to be any big PR stunt, if he isnt on the pitch then he cant be captain.

I like that we are trying to change the way we play, ie - from the back, however my early thoughts are we dont have the players to do that. If we are playing 3 at the back, at least 1, ideally 2 needs to be comfortable on the ball.

A lot of teams are going to get everyone behind the ball, the last thing we need is somebody to come and get the ball off the 3 centre halves (ie - Brunt) The centre halves are going to be alone anyway, by getting another player back we have 4 outfield players behind the ball before we even begin an attack.

Dawson can probably get away with his distribution at this league so i would play him on the right side of the 3, Hegazi or Barley in the middle as neither can pass a ball, and there is the left sided slot to fill, probably Tosin (on the basis he is from Man City so would assume he is decent on the ball) possibly Field? When we played 3 at the back under Megson it worked having three stoppers, nowadays, and in this league, the onus is on us to open teams up, our centre halves have to be comfortable bringing the ball out, carrying it forward and also being able to pick a decent pass.

I think Dawson has to come in, we defended better last night, yes Dawson was partly to blame but all season we have looked nervous at the back, the defenders all seem to do a lot of pointing at each other and shouting after the moment has passed, you need a organiser in there, we have been spoilt with Olsson, GMac, even Evans in recent years, Dawson is the most likely to organise so i think he has to play, Tosin will probably look better with him in there too.

I think Bartley what i have seen so far is a run of the mill championship defender, big and strong with little quality, i think you pick one of him or Hegazi, IF (and its a big if) we did go up i would think we will be replacing both Bartley and Hegazi as we may scrape by with them in this league but in the prem we will get tore a new one.

Johnstone looks nervous too, my villa supporting mates said he was good but also made to look better as Bruce is defensive by nature and they also had Terry and Chester infront of him, i also think Dawson will help Johnstone too, its a bit more authority as the worry at the moment would be Johnstone is clearly a good keeper but when your young and you spend too much time behind a shaky defence it takes its toll and you can end up like Carson, ruined by it and i see a lot of similarities with Johnstone and Carson at the moment, hopefully Johnstone will go the opposite way to Carson.

Lets hope we are learning as we go, its only 5 games in, the 2 decent sides we have played we have lost too and they have out thought us, we beat Norwich and thumped QPR, i expect with how we play we will thump a few other lesser teams in this league, but its not winning 7-1 or 5-0 against those sides that will make or break us, its how we do against the better ones.

I can see progress playing wise and i am happy with that side of things but we have to learn and learn quick against the better teams, 3 of our next 5 games are against sides who will fancy they will be up there - Stoke, Bristol City and Preston.

If this season was about consolidation then we should of got rid of the 'names' and brought in more of the likes of Townsend, players who will develop and progress over a number of years, we didnt and Big Dave chose to keep most of the squad together, that immediately adds more pressure to go up this year, if we dont then next season the likes of Gayle and Barnes wont be here and you can bet JRod, Phillips, Gibbs, Dawson wont hang around either so we will need a rebuild anyway and almost starting again.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on August 25, 2018, 04:18:35 PM
After reading the article about MaCaulay and his reference in it to Darren wanting to keep him, but the club didn't want him, I fear that Darren may be just a pawn on Jenkins chessboard and the easiest and cheapest piece to sacrifice when the battle commences in earnest and if it is not going well.

It must have been like manna from Heaven for Jenkins when Darren had that good run of results at the end of last season. So, appointing him appeased a fanbase that loved Darren, he was probably the least expensive option to appoint as Head Coach, a true club many that won't create waves or rock the boat and, as a novice Head Coach in his first role would, therefore, be easier to manipulate all the aforementioned ticked many of the boxes for Jenkins.

I still consider that Darren will do a good job in spite of being, somewhat, hamstrung and, in the course of doing well, he will strengthen his own position within the club, then we will have to wait and see what the outcome of that particular power struggle will be. I just hope the Albion do not struggle as a consequence.

All conspiracy theory of course  ;D



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 25, 2018, 08:28:51 PM
I think last night summed up that we are definitely a work in progress under Big Dave!

The key thing when your in transition is seeing the mistakes and not keep repeating them, the glaring mistake at the moment is the Brunt and Livermore combination.

I dont think Brunt is finished, he still has something to offer but his role should now be a left back or left midfielder if we revert back to 442 or 451, i feel for him as he is being played out of position and it shows, its affecting him and affecting the team.

This is a real big situation for Moore, if he sticks with Brunt and Livermore we wont progress too much, he needs to have the balls to drop Brunt and change his role at the club, it happens to most players and wont be easy, but time waits for nobody and Moore is the one who has to deal with the Brunt situation.

Brunty is a club stalwart, never let us down but also has the added factor he is captain, if i was Big Dave i would pull him to one side, say he is still important to us (which he will be) when we play 442 or 451 (which we will need to at times) he will be involved. I also wouldnt make a big fuss about demoting him as captain, there doesnt need to be any big PR stunt, if he isnt on the pitch then he cant be captain.

I like that we are trying to change the way we play, ie - from the back, however my early thoughts are we dont have the players to do that. If we are playing 3 at the back, at least 1, ideally 2 needs to be comfortable on the ball.

A lot of teams are going to get everyone behind the ball, the last thing we need is somebody to come and get the ball off the 3 centre halves (ie - Brunt) The centre halves are going to be alone anyway, by getting another player back we have 4 outfield players behind the ball before we even begin an attack.

Dawson can probably get away with his distribution at this league so i would play him on the right side of the 3, Hegazi or Barley in the middle as neither can pass a ball, and there is the left sided slot to fill, probably Tosin (on the basis he is from Man City so would assume he is decent on the ball) possibly Field? When we played 3 at the back under Megson it worked having three stoppers, nowadays, and in this league, the onus is on us to open teams up, our centre halves have to be comfortable bringing the ball out, carrying it forward and also being able to pick a decent pass.

I think Dawson has to come in, we defended better last night, yes Dawson was partly to blame but all season we have looked nervous at the back, the defenders all seem to do a lot of pointing at each other and shouting after the moment has passed, you need a organiser in there, we have been spoilt with Olsson, GMac, even Evans in recent years, Dawson is the most likely to organise so i think he has to play, Tosin will probably look better with him in there too.

I think Bartley what i have seen so far is a run of the mill championship defender, big and strong with little quality, i think you pick one of him or Hegazi, IF (and its a big if) we did go up i would think we will be replacing both Bartley and Hegazi as we may scrape by with them in this league but in the prem we will get tore a new one.

Johnstone looks nervous too, my villa supporting mates said he was good but also made to look better as Bruce is defensive by nature and they also had Terry and Chester infront of him, i also think Dawson will help Johnstone too, its a bit more authority as the worry at the moment would be Johnstone is clearly a good keeper but when your young and you spend too much time behind a shaky defence it takes its toll and you can end up like Carson, ruined by it and i see a lot of similarities with Johnstone and Carson at the moment, hopefully Johnstone will go the opposite way to Carson.

Lets hope we are learning as we go, its only 5 games in, the 2 decent sides we have played we have lost too and they have out thought us, we beat Norwich and thumped QPR, i expect with how we play we will thump a few other lesser teams in this league, but its not winning 7-1 or 5-0 against those sides that will make or break us, its how we do against the better ones.

I can see progress playing wise and i am happy with that side of things but we have to learn and learn quick against the better teams, 3 of our next 5 games are against sides who will fancy they will be up there - Stoke, Bristol City and Preston.

If this season was about consolidation then we should of got rid of the 'names' and brought in more of the likes of Townsend, players who will develop and progress over a number of years, we didnt and Big Dave chose to keep most of the squad together, that immediately adds more pressure to go up this year, if we dont then next season the likes of Gayle and Barnes wont be here and you can bet JRod, Phillips, Gibbs, Dawson wont hang around either so we will need a rebuild anyway and almost starting again.
You used th "transition" word, its this seasons VAR 😂

Anyway
I think we could be in danger of looking to deep at this, the problem is quite simple brunt and Livermore don't work, it puts too much pressure on the back line and makes them look bad too

Back three of Livermore Dawson Tosin

Midfield of Gibbs Barnes Barry field/Harper Phillips

Top two of Gayle and jay rod

Sorted
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on August 27, 2018, 01:29:50 PM
Amazing that he took our most dangerous player off on Friday. I have always said coaching badges mean nothing, footballers are basically thick, the game is simple enough for a five year old to understand. Managers are given badges the same way The Wizard of Oz gave out hearts, courage etc, to make them feel intelligent. The truth is most of us can see what is happening and needs to be done. Roy Hodgson never played professionally, some of the the daft people in management today try and blind by science. Mourhino acts like he is Napoleon. Just because Big Dave played at the highest level doesn't mean he knows anymore than the average Joe in the street.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 27, 2018, 01:40:09 PM
Amazing that he took our most dangerous player off on Friday. I have always said coaching badges mean nothing, footballers are basically thick, the game is simple enough for a five year old to understand. Managers are given badges the same way The Wizard of Oz gave out hearts, courage etc, to make them feel intelligent. The truth is most of us can see what is happening and needs to be done. Roy Hodgson never played professionally, some of the the daft people in management today try and blind by science. Mourhino acts like he is Napoleon. Just because Big Dave played at the highest level doesn't mean he knows anymore than the average Joe in the street.


Agree 100% with that. Anyone can take coaching badges you just have to go and do it. How many people have them? I don't know the answer but LOTS. Therefore they all "learn" the same things which means theoretically they all cancel each other out. They can't all be successful otherwise no team would ever lose a game.

It's a bit like Exam passes at school you can get them all doesn't mean you'll be any good at any particular job because exams mean you have good retention of information it doesn't mean you have commonsense or the ability to create when you don't have information to store mentally.

This idea that coaches know more than the average Joe is utter nonsense. An idiot could see it was stupid to take Barnes off the other night (example). How many fans would've subbed him? The man who has the badges did and we lost. What does that say?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on August 27, 2018, 02:39:44 PM
I think it's a sweeping statement to say all footballers are thick, as you can be intelligent and good at football (European footballers often come from different back grounds to English ones). I do agree however about the general point, you don't have to be academic to be a footballer, but in England, you have to be a footballer to be a coach. It is also a great point that all of the managers pass their coaching badges, it doesn't make them good managers.

More and more countries with forward thinking cultures are picking up young failed footballers and developing them into young managers - even at the age of 30, 31 and 32 in places like Germany and Portugal. These people haven't played the gane at the top level, they have only played atva level similarto many football fans (how many people do you know who played non league or were scouted by top clubs).

It does disprove what many people say about managers definitely knowing more than fans. Yes they will be immersed in the game as they work in it, so understand the inner workings etc, but it doesn't mean they understand what they are watching on the pitch on a higher plain to the average fan. They just in some cases get more time to review it after.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: adamw1109 on August 27, 2018, 02:40:24 PM
You used th "transition" word, its this seasons VAR 😂

Anyway
I think we could be in danger of looking to deep at this, the problem is quite simple brunt and Livermore don't work, it puts too much pressure on the back line and makes them look bad too

Back three of Livermore Dawson Tosin

Midfield of Gibbs Barnes Barry field/Harper Phillips

Top two of Gayle and jay rod

Sorted

Livermore in a back three combined with a slow and past it Barry in the middle is a disaster waiting to happen.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mr Cynical on August 27, 2018, 02:45:20 PM
Bit weird that people are saying that they'd make a better coach than Darren Moore becuase they haven't got any coaching badges and haven't been involved in professional football for the last 25/30 years.

If you aspire to manage at the top level you must have the UEFA Pro licence.  Here's a summary of the top 3 levels in the UEFA coaching Pyramid.  The UEFA Pro Licence can take 5 years to achieve (along with the prerequisites).

The UEFA Pyramid:

-   Level 5, UEFA Pro Licence (focus on how to manage)
    A mandatory qualification for managing in the FA Premier League and UEFA competitions.
    Most candidates complete in 12 months

-   Level 4, UEFA A Licence (focus on phases of play, 9v9 games and 11v11 match play)
    Work as a manager/coach in the professional game, or Academy Manager.
    Most candidates complete within 2 years.

-   Level 3, UEFA B Licence (focus on functions, phases of play and 8v8 games)
    Find work in Centres of Excellence and Academies.
    You have 2 years, but can usually be completed in 12-18 months
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on August 27, 2018, 02:50:59 PM
Bit weird that people are saying that they'd make a better coach than Darren Moore becuase they haven't got any coaching badges and haven't been involved in professional football for the last 25/30 years.

If you aspire to manage at the top level you must have the UEFA Pro licence.  Here's a summary of the top 3 levels in the UEFA coaching Pyramid.  The UEFA Pro Licence can take 5 years to achieve (along with the prerequisites).

The UEFA Pyramid:

-   Level 5, UEFA Pro Licence (focus on how to manage)
    A mandatory qualification for managing in the FA Premier League and UEFA competitions.
    Most candidates complete in 12 months

-   Level 4, UEFA A Licence (focus on phases of play, 9v9 games and 11v11 match play)
    Work as a manager/coach in the professional game, or Academy Manager.
    Most candidates complete within 2 years.

-   Level 3, UEFA B Licence (focus on functions, phases of play and 8v8 games)
    Find work in Centres of Excellence and Academies.
    You have 2 years, but can usually be completed in 12-18 months

Worth noting that the UEFA Pro License is far from a given and is around the 50% pass rate.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 27, 2018, 02:51:24 PM
Bit weird that people are saying that they'd make a better coach than Darren Moore becuase they haven't got any coaching badges and haven't been involved in professional football for the last 25/30 years.

If you aspire to manage at the top level you must have the UEFA Pro licence.  Here's a summary of the top 3 levels in the UEFA coaching Pyramid.  The UEFA Pro Licence can take 5 years to achieve (along with the prerequisites).

The UEFA Pyramid:

-   Level 5, UEFA Pro Licence (focus on how to manage)
    A mandatory qualification for managing in the FA Premier League and UEFA competitions.
    Most candidates complete in 12 months

-   Level 4, UEFA A Licence (focus on phases of play, 9v9 games and 11v11 match play)
    Work as a manager/coach in the professional game, or Academy Manager.
    Most candidates complete within 2 years.

-   Level 3, UEFA B Licence (focus on functions, phases of play and 8v8 games)
    Find work in Centres of Excellence and Academies.
    You have 2 years, but can usually be completed in 12-18 months


Yes and how many people have them? How many of those people have had success as head coaches? Give me the percentage and then the breakdown.

It's bureaucracy, nothing more. All the frippery means nothing. Football is about getting teams to win matches and be successful that's the bottom line. Who's got what certificate means naughty word all.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on August 27, 2018, 02:52:33 PM

Agree 100% with that. Anyone can take coaching badges you just have to go and do it. How many people have them? I don't know the answer but LOTS. Therefore they all "learn" the same things which means theoretically they all cancel each other out. They can't all be successful otherwise no team would ever lose a game.

It's a bit like Exam passes at school you can get them all doesn't mean you'll be any good at any particular job because exams mean you have good retention of information it doesn't mean you have commonsense or the ability to create when you don't have information to store mentally.

This idea that coaches know more than the average Joe is utter nonsense. An idiot could see it was stupid to take Barnes off the other night (example). How many fans would've subbed him? The man who has the badges did and we lost. What does that say?

Agreed. The only difference between coaching and playing is with playing you need the physical aspect to be able to compete. With coaching you need the psychological strength to compete.

But, with both roles, you need to be able to READ the game. You need to be able to see how the opposition will line up and adapt as the game progresses. This is something players and managers fall down on. You get some top players like lampard who could read the game as a player but it remains to be seen if he can do the same as a coach.

For me, too many managers cannot read the game. Hate to say it but I think dm falls into this category.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on August 27, 2018, 03:02:02 PM
Divine says thick and atomic says idiot what charming vocabularies you have ,that's our head coach and ex player you are talking about,someone who is trying to make this club great again in difficult circumstances thankfully I suspect mist fans don't think that of Dave.
Theres nothing stopping either of you two trying for the pro badges etc then we could see how you do,its easy to criticize , oh by the way Dave thinks highly of you both,be a bit more half full kind of guys eh?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on August 27, 2018, 03:04:25 PM
Agreed. The only difference between coaching and playing is with playing you need the physical aspect to be able to compete. With coaching you need the psychological strength to compete.

Totally disagree here. We've seen managers with limited footballing careers step up and compete amongst the best in the world as managers. Likewise players with glittering careers fall flat on their faces when it comes to managing.

Wenger, Fergie, Mourinho, Sarri, Klopp... none of these graced the highest stage of football as a player. All have done remarkably well as managers, each with a completely different style. Wenger's ability to develop a player was his biggest strength, Fergie's sheer ability all round was world class, Mourinho could take the player equivalent of a Ford Fiesta and beat a F1 car....

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on August 27, 2018, 03:06:41 PM
Bit weird that people are saying that they'd make a better coach than Darren Moore becuase they haven't got any coaching badges and haven't been involved in professional football for the last 25/30 years.

Make a better manager? Well, that escalated quickly. Haven't seen anyone say that cynical, I think there is a bit of a leap from what is being said, to "i'd make a better manager".

The badges are like all qualifications, based around theory. The key is being able to take what you learn and put it into action, while reading the game, looking at it from a strategic point of view and having the leadership qualities to seperate yourself from the players you manage.

Football expects players to take on football full time from the age of 16 in most cases, meaning it does not lend itself to academic types (a few notable exceptions, like Joe Lolley  and Hal Robson Kanu excluded).

With coaching badge opportunties generally only available in England to ex players, it does limit the available talent pool and means we can't prove if a "lay person" could do better. Early suggestions from Germany however suggest somebody who left the game as a teenager and starts studying football can however make a better manager than an ex pro, despite having never PLAYED at pro level (cast an eye on last years Bundesliga top ten and see how many managers are in their early thirties and never played the game at a decent level).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on August 27, 2018, 03:20:18 PM
It's the cost Baggies that rules out your Joe Average pursuing the coaching badges in this country. In Germany you pay between 10-20% of what the FA charge for the UEFA badges and in Spain 20-50%. Work that out?!

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wigmore on August 27, 2018, 03:22:55 PM

Yes and how many people have them? How many of those people have had success as head coaches? Give me the percentage and then the breakdown.

It's bureaucracy, nothing more. All the frippery means nothing. Football is about getting teams to win matches and be successful that's the bottom line. Who's got what certificate means naughty word all.
Your earlier post (agreeing with an equally ignorant divinewind) made me laugh, as it demonstrated a sublime ignorance of coaching qualifications and their attainment.
Surely it is up to YOU to find the statistical information to support your nonsensical assertions, rather than your audience.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on August 27, 2018, 04:57:03 PM
For those asking for respect for our Head Coach, can I point out that his name is Darren Moore.

"Big Dave" was a derogatory term used for him in his playing days.

The UEFA qualifications are essentially vocational, so by their nature, more practical than theoretical.

DM's position is Head Coach, which means he is head of a team of coaches, all selected by him for advice, on various issues related to the objective of winning football matches.

The one area that DM doesn't appear to have full control of, is the selection of additions to & leavers from, the squad of players.
It looks as though there is a fixed budget, & although not strictly a one in one out basis, any additions have to be funded by a leaver.
In an ideal world, we, as fans, might want to see some changes to the playing squad, but it might not be possible due to the constraints.

Against Middlesborough, I would have taken off Harvey Barnes, & replaced him with Morrison. Not necessarily because Morrison was a better player, but sometimes, when you make a substitution, the opposition lose the new player & you gain an advantage for a few minutes.
The game could have gone either way, in the event it went against us, but that sub could have meant it going for us.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 27, 2018, 05:02:48 PM
For those asking for respect for our Head Coach, can I point out that his name is Darren Moore.

"Big Dave" was a derogatory term used for him in his playing days.

The UEFA qualifications are essentially vocational, so by their nature, more practical than theoretical.

DM's position is Head Coach, which means he is head of a team of coaches, all selected by him for advice, on various issues related to the objective of winning football matches.

The one area that DM doesn't appear to have full control of, is the selection of additions to & leavers from, the squad of players.
It looks as though there is a fixed budget, & although not strictly a one in one out basis, any additions have to be funded by a leaver.
In an ideal world, we, as fans, might want to see some changes to the playing squad, but it might not be possible due to the constraints.

Against Middlesborough, I would have taken off Harvey Barnes, & replaced him with Morrison. Not necessarily because Morrison was a better player, but sometimes, when you make a substitution, the opposition lose the new player & you gain an advantage for a few minutes.
The game could have gone either way, in the event it went against us, but that sub could have meant it going for us.

I haven't seen anyone ever use it in a derogatory way ever, it has always been used affectionately and the man himself knows that. Its purely because of his likeness to the character in an advert nothing more.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on August 27, 2018, 05:08:19 PM
I haven't seen anyone ever use it in a derogatory way ever, it has always been used affectionately and the man himself knows that. Its purely because of his likeness to the character in an advert nothing more.

It's all about opinions Oldbury. I know where it came from, & even at the time, I thought it was derogatory, & taking the mick.

Let's put it this way, if it had been aimed at me, I would have been a bit miffed.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 27, 2018, 05:09:38 PM
It's all about opinions Oldbury. I know where it came from, & even at the time, I thought it was derogatory, & taking the mick.

Let's put it this way, if it had been aimed at me, I would have been a bit miffed.

If there was anything derogatory about it the club themselves would not use it.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on August 27, 2018, 05:11:36 PM
It's all about opinions Oldbury. I know where it came from, & even at the time, I thought it was derogatory, & taking the mick.

Let's put it this way, if it had been aimed at me, I would have been a bit miffed.

That's mental. He genuinely looked/looks like the guy off the advert. PC gone mad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on August 27, 2018, 05:20:42 PM
Never heard it said before that Dave is used in a derogatory way,I'm sure its meant as a form of affection,that's my take on it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VVVAlbion on August 27, 2018, 05:25:57 PM
From the stand it is easy to make decisions, they're never wrong and never tested (and don't have to consider the full circumstances of the game). Was it right to take Barnes off for Morrison?  I don't think I would of but I don't know the circumstances of the fitness of Barnes, for example, and therefore easy to criticise. Did it change the result of the match? I don't think so. Will Dave  ;) make bad decisions? Probably, most coaches do and he is a relatively inexperienced one but i'd still rather have him trying to play football than either of his two predecessors.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on August 27, 2018, 05:34:28 PM
If there was anything derogatory about it the club themselves would not use it.

As I said it's all about opinions.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on August 27, 2018, 05:43:39 PM
From the stand it is easy to make decisions, they're never wrong and never tested (and don't have to consider the full circumstances of the game). Was it right to take Barnes off for Morrison?  I don't think I would of but I don't know the circumstances of the fitness of Barnes, for example, and therefore easy to criticise. Did it change the result of the match? I don't think so. Will Dave  ;) make bad decisions? Probably, most coaches do and he is a relatively inexperienced one but i'd still rather have him trying to play football than either of his two predecessors.
Yes they could also be mindful that Barnes is only 20 and we have to be a bit careful not to burn him out too early this season. He did play against Luton also. He is a key player so watching his workload could come into it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BB74 on August 27, 2018, 05:49:20 PM
That's mental. He genuinely looked/looks like the guy off the advert. PC gone mad.

This nickname came out in what, 2001? Just four years into the New Labour government and before they had insisted every get offended and find things derogatory. The generation since then has had a stronghold over being politically correct and offended by everything.

I’m not surprised someone thinks it’s derogatory in 2018.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on August 27, 2018, 05:54:18 PM
As you say Baggiejohn its all about opinions and people take offence to what they want but the nickname was from a lookalike in a pot noodle advert.

Every week he has people chanting 'theres only one big dave' and he seems happy enough to wave and smile, i have seen him at various off the field functions both as a player, manager, and in between and nearly everyone said Big Dave or Mooro and he seemed more than happy.

Back in his playing days i was a guest in one of the boxes and he was the player who came in after, he was a top bloke (made me like him even more) he was asked about the nickname, he knew exactly where it was from and said he loved it, he loved that he had that bond and affection with the fans and some of the other lads even just called him Dave in training.

I would imagine if he had any issue he would politely inform people when they called him 'Big Dave' that he didnt like it, it could also be leaked to the media to stop it a bit, lets be fair, if Big Dave / Darren / Mooro told you he didnt like it, you wouldnt argue with him!

As for his coaching / management, personally i think he is doing a decent jog, i think we are trying to move away from what we were, it takes time and there are things he needs to learn quick, but every coach makes mistakes, i would imagine after 10-12 games things will start to settle in terms of favoured formation, team, etc and come xmas / new year we will probably have an idea if we are going to be in the promotion mix.

As said previous, i think he has created extra pressure for himself by choosing to retain the bulk of last seasons 'premier league' players as on paper you see those names and you think they should be near the top of the table, but as we saw last season, on paper means nothings! However he must trust those players to do that job as i have a feeling unless we make the playoffs this year he wont be here next season anyway (i am not saying i dont think he should be, we will only tell as the season pans out, the owners however will not be looking at development, style of play, building for the future, i think they will be looking at the premier league gravy train and getting there in any way possible)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on August 27, 2018, 05:56:48 PM
As I said it's all about opinions.

There are times when you can't really say... well I respect your opinion and we'll beg to differ... this is one of those times. Never, ever, since the emergence of Big Dave have I ever saw an article or any statement or sentence of the kind referring to the nickname with any form of it being derogative in any kind. Likewise his nickname of Bruno whilst at Pompey.

If we had referred to Inamoto as Big Dave eyebrows would have been raised. If a Caucasian player looks a lot like somebody else then they're is no question there will be a reference with no comeback. Darren Moore looked similar to Big Dave at the time. Simple as that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 27, 2018, 06:07:03 PM
I'm sure if Darren had a proplem with being called big Dave then we would of heard from him during playing days and not a decade later
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mank baggie on August 27, 2018, 06:15:04 PM
People getting offended on other people's behalf ! Massive problem with today's society,  just my opinion
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on August 27, 2018, 06:36:16 PM
Apologies in advance, well not really, Oh for God's sake get a grip

Just my opinion of course!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mank baggie on August 27, 2018, 06:39:52 PM
Apologies in advance, well not really, Oh for God's sake get a grip

Just my opinion of course!

It's all about opinions
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Uncle Peter on August 27, 2018, 07:18:40 PM
Quote
Let's put it this way, if it had been aimed at me, I would have been a bit miffed.

I should imagine you would be, unless you were a genuine look-a-like for the character on the pot noodle advert. Or you were trying to engender yourself to the fans of your new club.

Genuine question, have you ever had a nickname?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on August 27, 2018, 07:40:13 PM
I should imagine you would be, unless you were a genuine look-a-like for the character on the pot noodle advert. Or you were trying to engender yourself to the fans of your new club.

Genuine question, have you ever had a nickname?

As I've said, it's all about opinions.

I've no knowledge on whether or not Darren Moore himself finds the nickname derogatory or disrespectful. According to one poster, he's OK with it.

Personally, I'd find it disrespectful.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 27, 2018, 08:41:55 PM
just slightly below par for the season so far, Bolton result most annoying. cant afford another 5 losses if we are to go up. the longer we stay in this division the harder it gets
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on August 28, 2018, 12:27:21 AM
Without wishing to stir the Pot on the Big Dave debate. (Sorry ::)

I personally don't think it is disrespectful however whether or not it grates with Darren after 15 years might be a different matter but unless the man himself says something about it we won't ever know. 

If you are an ex-player of note and you choose to have an association with your former club never make the mistake of taking the manager's job, because at that point the relationship between yourself and the fans changes forever.  Darren Moore the much loved former player could be "Big Dave" it was of it's time and was part of the club's folklore there is a certain amount of fondness and an unconditional love about it

Darren Moore the Head Coach can't be Big Dave. Fans pick his every decision to pieces obsess about his utterances in new conferences and criticise his work in the most unflattering terms. There is nothing unconditional about the relationship within weeks of him being appointed. Sorry Big Dave has gone you can't pore scorn on the man's head in one moment and then use the matey nickname the next.

No it isn't disrespectful but it doesn't work in the way it once did.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on August 28, 2018, 12:50:59 AM
I don't think big dave is rude or was disrespectful of him at the time. That said, I have made a concious effort every since he became manager to call him Moore as it felt more appropriate with him now the gaffer.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on August 28, 2018, 06:55:50 AM
Let it rest.
He's Big Dave, Darren Moore, DM, Dazza whatever.
He's the coach manager.
Great affiliation with the club or not he will sink or swim on the decisions he makes and the results he gets not by what his name is.
He's getting a lot more slack at the moment from the fans because he is remembered for the time he played for us.
If we had appointed an 'outsider' the 'he's gotta goo Franksy' brigade would have been on the rise by now.
If we don't start knocking a few results together I don't think that point is too far away.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on August 28, 2018, 09:22:17 AM
Let it rest.
He's Big Dave, Darren Moore, DM, Dazza whatever.
He's the coach manager.
Great affiliation with the club or not he will sink or swim on the decisions he makes and the results he gets not by what his name is.
He's getting a lot more slack at the moment from the fans because he is remembered for the time he played for us.
If we had appointed an 'outsider' the 'he's gotta goo Franksy' brigade would have been on the rise by now.
If we don't start knocking a few results together I don't think that point is too far away.
Not true for the vast majority I don't think. He inherited an overpaid, under performing and aging squad who were geared to play defensive football over a long period, and most of us understand that it will take time to change the side and get it playing well and effectively. Anyone who thinks everything will gel immediately and we will storm the league is deluded. It's a work in progress. This season will be up and down, but will certainly be more enjoyable than what we have been used to for a few years. If DM has the team finish top half, that will be about par, top 6 would be a good achievement, and promotion would be an outstanding achievement (and one we are probably not ready for just yet).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on August 28, 2018, 10:25:39 AM
Let it rest.
He's Big Dave, Darren Moore, DM, Dazza whatever.
He's the coach manager.
Great affiliation with the club or not he will sink or swim on the decisions he makes and the results he gets not by what his name is.
He's getting a lot more slack at the moment from the fans because he is remembered for the time he played for us.
If we had appointed an 'outsider' the 'he's gotta goo Franksy' brigade would have been on the rise by now.
If we don't start knocking a few results together I don't think that point is too far away.
I would imagine how he is referred to is the last thing on his mind at the moment and, as has already been said, he doesn't find it offensive so it matters not if anyone else does to be honest. Agree, let it rest.
As for the slack he is getting, I also agree that it is down to his affiliation to the club, but I think that is a great thing. Yes he's a inexperienced and a bit naive but he's still learning and working his way into what is a very difficult role in a hostile environment. In that sense I am glad he is here because he will get a bit more time to find his feet and hopefully will evolve into a very capable head coach. Of course there are no guarantees that he will succeed but I have seen enough so far to suggest he is definitely worth my patience.
That being said, he's not teflon and should be criticised if he gets things wrong, like playing Brunt in the centre or not using his subs as well as he might, but I would hope the criticism would be more constructive than  "he's gotta goo".
If we do pull the trigger too early, I think we will regret it in the long run and possibly lament what could have been.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on August 28, 2018, 10:30:29 AM
I don't think that Big D is getting any more slack than another, more experienced manager would have.  We are still only a few games into a season in which the manager is trying to completely change not only the style of play, but also the mind set of the playing staff from one of playing with the fear of losing to playing with the bravery to win.  TP's legacy is a squad full of so called Premier League players with limited technical ability and attacking flair - this has been proven by the fact that a young loanee, Harvey Barnes, is already our most creative and dangerous player by some distance.   I missed the Norwich game through illness (typical) but from what I have seen so far, apart from Barnes only Phillips looks like a player who is top quality even at this level.  Big D hasn't been backed financially - with the one in, one out, policy really causing problems as this includes Barry and Chadli who are still taking up big salaries and pretty much blocking our purchase of another CM or AM player that we all know (including Darren Moore) we need. 

Big D has shown himself to be open to ideas and flexible in his tactics, also bringing in a very good number 2.    An area of criticism might be his persistence with Brunt and Livermore as a central two, but he is certainly not the first manager to look to his more experienced pro's to click before turning to his youngsters.  As fans we would love to see some academy players come in and solve all our problems, but how often does this really happen? The management team see the players in training everyday and obviously see weaknesses as well as strengths.  That's not to say I wouldn't love to see Field or Harper given a chance and I still hope that will happen.

Being back in this division is a learning journey for the whole club as well as Darren Moore, and I also think making the play-offs would be a fantastic achievement for him.  If we don't go up and lose some more of these Premier League players then so be it, I don't think I will be mourning there passing if we can replace them with more young, hungry and technically proficient players that will be suited to an attacking set-up.   I would rather be taking my boy to watch an attacking team we can relate to and be proud of rather than have another season of Premier League drudgery where the main entertainment is spot the millionaire.   

So given the circumstances, would any other manager already be under pressure following some indifferent performances but also a 7-1 win at home?  I would also like to think once the dust settles on a defeat or poor performance that the vast majority of fans would still be behind any manager.  The fact that the one we have is inexperienced but Albion to the core, has fantastic values and seems to have the respect of everybody in the game he comes across can only be a further reason to continue backing him, surely? I also think there is a chance, maybe a slim one, that the partnership between Darren Moore and Jones can produce something special in regards to not only results but also regaining our footballing identify.  So come on Darren Moore and COYB.


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on August 28, 2018, 10:38:26 AM
I don't think that Big D is getting any more slack than another, more experienced manager would have.  We are still only a few games into a season in which the manager is trying to completely change not only the style of play, but also the mind set of the playing staff from one of playing with the fear of losing to playing with the bravery to win.  TP's legacy is a squad full of so called Premier League players with limited technical ability and attacking flair - this has been proven by the fact that a young loanee, Harvey Barnes, is already our most creative and dangerous player by some distance.   I missed the Norwich game through illness (typical) but from what I have seen so far, apart from Barnes only Phillips looks like a player who is top quality even at this level.  Big D hasn't been backed financially - with the one in, one out, policy really causing problems as this includes Barry and Chadli who are still taking up big salaries and pretty much blocking our purchase of another CM or AM player that we all know (including Darren Moore) we need. 

Big D has shown himself to be open to ideas and flexible in his tactics, also bringing in a very good number 2.    An area of criticism might be his persistence with Brunt and Livermore as a central two, but he is certainly not the first manager to look to his more experienced pro's to click before turning to his youngsters.  As fans we would love to see some academy players come in and solve all our problems, but how often does this really happen? The management team see the players in training everyday and obviously see weaknesses as well as strengths.  That's not to say I wouldn't love to see Field or Harper given a chance and I still hope that will happen.

Being back in this division is a learning journey for the whole club as well as Darren Moore, and I also think making the play-offs would be a fantastic achievement for him.  If we don't go up and lose some more of these Premier League players then so be it, I don't think I will be mourning there passing if we can replace them with more young, hungry and technically proficient players that will be suited to an attacking set-up.   I would rather be taking my boy to watch an attacking team we can relate to and be proud of rather than have another season of Premier League drudgery where the main entertainment is spot the millionaire.   

So given the circumstances, would any other manager already be under pressure following some indifferent performances but also a 7-1 win at home?  I would also like to think once the dust settles on a defeat or poor performance that the vast majority of fans would still be behind any manager.  The fact that the one we have is inexperienced but Albion to the core, has fantastic values and seems to have the respect of everybody in the game he comes across can only be a further reason to continue backing him, surely? I also think there is a chance, maybe a slim one, that the partnership between Darren Moore and Jones can produce something special in regards to not only results but also regaining our footballing identify.  So come on Darren Moore and COYB.


That's a very good post for an opening one. Welcome to westbrom.com mate.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on August 28, 2018, 10:43:04 AM
I cannot agree that top half is par.

Having played five games I genuinely believe this squad is more than capable of top 6. We should be challenging for top two.

There is still talent in this squad, and it shouldn't take 12 months to turnaround.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on August 28, 2018, 10:44:31 AM
I don't think that Big D is getting any more slack than another, more experienced manager would have.  We are still only a few games into a season in which the manager is trying to completely change not only the style of play, but also the mind set of the playing staff from one of playing with the fear of losing to playing with the bravery to win.  TP's legacy is a squad full of so called Premier League players with limited technical ability and attacking flair - this has been proven by the fact that a young loanee, Harvey Barnes, is already our most creative and dangerous player by some distance.   I missed the Norwich game through illness (typical) but from what I have seen so far, apart from Barnes only Phillips looks like a player who is top quality even at this level.  Big D hasn't been backed financially - with the one in, one out, policy really causing problems as this includes Barry and Chadli who are still taking up big salaries and pretty much blocking our purchase of another CM or AM player that we all know (including Darren Moore) we need. 

Big D has shown himself to be open to ideas and flexible in his tactics, also bringing in a very good number 2.    An area of criticism might be his persistence with Brunt and Livermore as a central two, but he is certainly not the first manager to look to his more experienced pro's to click before turning to his youngsters.  As fans we would love to see some academy players come in and solve all our problems, but how often does this really happen? The management team see the players in training everyday and obviously see weaknesses as well as strengths.  That's not to say I wouldn't love to see Field or Harper given a chance and I still hope that will happen.

Being back in this division is a learning journey for the whole club as well as Darren Moore, and I also think making the play-offs would be a fantastic achievement for him.  If we don't go up and lose some more of these Premier League players then so be it, I don't think I will be mourning there passing if we can replace them with more young, hungry and technically proficient players that will be suited to an attacking set-up.   I would rather be taking my boy to watch an attacking team we can relate to and be proud of rather than have another season of Premier League drudgery where the main entertainment is spot the millionaire.   

So given the circumstances, would any other manager already be under pressure following some indifferent performances but also a 7-1 win at home?  I would also like to think once the dust settles on a defeat or poor performance that the vast majority of fans would still be behind any manager.  The fact that the one we have is inexperienced but Albion to the core, has fantastic values and seems to have the respect of everybody in the game he comes across can only be a further reason to continue backing him, surely? I also think there is a chance, maybe a slim one, that the partnership between Darren Moore and Jones can produce something special in regards to not only results but also regaining our footballing identify.  So come on Darren Moore and COYB.

Cracking post chap and one pretty much after my own heart  8) 8) .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on August 28, 2018, 11:09:54 AM
I don't think that Big D is getting any more slack than another, more experienced manager would have.  We are still only a few games into a season in which the manager is trying to completely change not only the style of play, but also the mind set of the playing staff from one of playing with the fear of losing to playing with the bravery to win.  TP's legacy is a squad full of so called Premier League players with limited technical ability and attacking flair - this has been proven by the fact that a young loanee, Harvey Barnes, is already our most creative and dangerous player by some distance.   I missed the Norwich game through illness (typical) but from what I have seen so far, apart from Barnes only Phillips looks like a player who is top quality even at this level.  Big D hasn't been backed financially - with the one in, one out, policy really causing problems as this includes Barry and Chadli who are still taking up big salaries and pretty much blocking our purchase of another CM or AM player that we all know (including Darren Moore) we need. 

Big D has shown himself to be open to ideas and flexible in his tactics, also bringing in a very good number 2.    An area of criticism might be his persistence with Brunt and Livermore as a central two, but he is certainly not the first manager to look to his more experienced pro's to click before turning to his youngsters.  As fans we would love to see some academy players come in and solve all our problems, but how often does this really happen? The management team see the players in training everyday and obviously see weaknesses as well as strengths.  That's not to say I wouldn't love to see Field or Harper given a chance and I still hope that will happen.

Being back in this division is a learning journey for the whole club as well as Darren Moore, and I also think making the play-offs would be a fantastic achievement for him.  If we don't go up and lose some more of these Premier League players then so be it, I don't think I will be mourning there passing if we can replace them with more young, hungry and technically proficient players that will be suited to an attacking set-up.   I would rather be taking my boy to watch an attacking team we can relate to and be proud of rather than have another season of Premier League drudgery where the main entertainment is spot the millionaire.   

So given the circumstances, would any other manager already be under pressure following some indifferent performances but also a 7-1 win at home?  I would also like to think once the dust settles on a defeat or poor performance that the vast majority of fans would still be behind any manager.  The fact that the one we have is inexperienced but Albion to the core, has fantastic values and seems to have the respect of everybody in the game he comes across can only be a further reason to continue backing him, surely? I also think there is a chance, maybe a slim one, that the partnership between Darren Moore and Jones can produce something special in regards to not only results but also regaining our footballing identify.  So come on Darren Moore and COYB.
Where is the evidence that Moore has identified a CM as a problem area?

I agree that Moore could have been backed more, but the evidence is that a central midfielder was never his priority (with DM seemingly happy with Brunt and Livermore), with Moore instead targeting a right back, despite central midfield (IMO) being the most important area needing attention.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on August 28, 2018, 12:04:28 PM
Where is the evidence that Moore has identified a CM as a problem area?

I agree that Moore could have been backed more, but the evidence is that a central midfielder was never his priority (with DM seemingly happy with Brunt and Livermore), with Moore instead targeting a right back, despite central midfield (IMO) being the most important area needing attention.

There is some presumption on my part here.  But this is based around my observation of the one in, one out, system that we seem to be operating on transfers.  I don't think its a case that he doesn't want another central midfielder (what manager wouldn't want to improve the middle of the part) its more the case that whilst we have Barry and Chadli on the books he can't have one.  Only from what I've observed so no facts or ITK.   However, if we are getting rid of Nyom and replacing him with Mears on a rolling contract......what chance do we have of actually buying a decent CM or AM whilst those other two are taking up wages.  It would seem things are financially tighter than we realised which is impacting more on recruitment than we realised.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on August 28, 2018, 12:11:24 PM
There is some presumption on my part here.  But this is based around my observation of the one in, one out, system that we seem to be operating on transfers.  I don't think its a case that he doesn't want another central midfielder (what manager wouldn't want to improve the middle of the part) its more the case that whilst we have Barry and Chadli on the books he can't have one.  Only from what I've observed so no facts or ITK.   However, if we are getting rid of Nyom and replacing him with Mears on a rolling contract......what chance do we have of actually buying a decent CM or AM whilst those other two are taking up wages.  It would seem things are financially tighter than we realised which is impacting more on recruitment than we realised.

Think that's been quite obvious when you look at the business this summer, every departure has been replaced with a similar positioned player on a lower wage.

Foster > Johnstone
Evans > Bartley
McClean > Barnes
McAuley > Tosin
Nyom > Mears/Townsend
Rondon > Gayle (not sure on the figures in this one but may be the only one that is close wages wise)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on August 28, 2018, 12:21:19 PM
Think that's been quite obvious when you look at the business this summer, every departure has been replaced with a similar positioned player on a lower wage.

Foster > Johnstone
Evans > Bartley
McClean > Barnes
McAuley > Tosin
Nyom > Mears/Townsend
Rondon > Gayle (not sure on the figures in this one but may be the only one that is close wages wise)

I would agree, but I think the Mears deal has really driven this home.  At least there seemed other footballing reasons behind the other signings

Foster > Johnstone - one of the best young keepers outside the Premier league
Evans > Bartley - potentially a very solid championship defender
McClean > Barnes - take him EVERYDAY
McAuley > Tosin - young, tall potentially good on the ball
Rondon > Gayle  - swapped a workhorse for a proven goal scorer

Nyom > Mears - errrrmmmm, he's cheap back up and easy to get rid of :)

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: letmereadposts on August 28, 2018, 02:12:11 PM
Promised myself I would give Big Dave a year but three areas concern me so far -

Firstly, signing TM - I don’t believe he’s worth even as back-up, if it’s to see us into January then fine. I’m also disappointed in the PR, this is not a significant signing (it’s actually embarrassing) so why champion the MLS when we know fully we’ll how mediocre the league is. I’d rather use funds for young promising player (remember Dawson from Rochdale) or despite not like for like keep on GM.

Secondly, not valuing balance in the midfield as Livermore and Brunt simply don’t work and adds unnecessary additional criticism to a modern club hero that genuinely cares.

Thirdly, GJ made a big statement in the press before Boro game, only for us to try and play out a draw for the last 20 minutes - unacceptable for a team supposedly aiming for the title/100points/100goals. In addition Darren Moore completely overplayed our performance.

A few things bugging me so far, I’m concerned because next season their will be no Barnes, no Morrison, no Brunt, no Gayle, no Dawson etc. I’m hoping we at least hit the play offs in some form.

I believe in Darren Moore and GJ but we need to kick-on hopefully starting with Stoke.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: letmereadposts on August 28, 2018, 02:22:37 PM
As much as I disagreed with the Darren Moore appointment I would only like him to be sacked if both of the following criteria are met

- It is mathematically impossible for us to finish in the top 6

- Throughout the season we have not seen enough to suggest we would get into the top 6 in the 2019/2020 season

It is still only August and there is a lot of football still to be played.

I think this is how I’m feeling, it’s a strange position for us knowing we have similar chances of run away with the league or finish mid table.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on August 28, 2018, 02:40:31 PM
I want Darren to succeed and like all previous coaches and managers I'll give him time but if his hands are tied when it comes to finance's then he should explain it to us fans who would appreciate the honesty.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on August 28, 2018, 03:00:07 PM
I want Darren to succeed and like all previous coaches and managers I'll give him time but if his hands are tied when it comes to finance's then he should explain it to us fans who would appreciate the honesty.

Like the sentiment but its naive in the extreme.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on August 28, 2018, 05:08:40 PM
Sad to say but i fear Darren is Jenkins puppet, cheap, grateful for the job and won't rock the ship. He will be discarded by Jenkins if we struggle, to deflect away from the real culprits. This was an old trick of Jeremiahs. I hope Darren is a success, he's a good bloke, but even if he takes us up how much will he be given to spend?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on August 28, 2018, 05:10:15 PM
It's not even the end of August and some are talking about the criteria on which we should sack the Head Coach after he has had only five competitive games under his belt and with a win rate of 40%, now that seems negative to me.

And I though we used to sing "We know who we are", well, clearly, some have delusions of grandeur 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on August 28, 2018, 06:06:38 PM
Like the sentiment but its naive in the extreme.
always been naive when it comes to the Albion let my heart rule my head when it comes to that lot :(
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on August 28, 2018, 08:52:04 PM
Sad to say but i fear Darren is Jenkins puppet, cheap, grateful for the job and won't rock the ship. He will be discarded by Jenkins if we struggle, to deflect away from the real culprits. This was an old trick of Jeremiahs. I hope Darren is a success, he's a good bloke, but even if he takes us up how much will he be given to spend?

If he takes us up we will have had a fantastic season, scored lots of goals and see the team really come together.  I'll be too busy enjoying it to worry about next year (and lets face it we know the answer to how much would we spend).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on August 29, 2018, 06:37:15 AM
Sad to say but i fear Darren is Jenkins puppet, cheap, grateful for the job and won't rock the ship. He will be discarded by Jenkins if we struggle, to deflect away from the real culprits. This was an old trick of Jeremiahs. I hope Darren is a success, he's a good bloke, but even if he takes us up how much will he be given to spend?

In general I have never understood this criticism of Head Coaches and I have seen it from other club's fans. What does anyone expect? Public criticism of the board/ownership generally ends in one way and that is badly for the Head Coach. Even where it happens and the coach is in a strong enough position to not be fired e.g. Rafa at Newcastle it just creates a sense of crisis around the club and it changes very little.

Incidentally the one occasion where there was a major public falling out where the manager won the battle at West Brom was Megson and Thompson which ushered in the much maligned Peace era. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wigmore on August 29, 2018, 11:07:53 AM
Sad to say but i fear Darren is Jenkins puppet, cheap, grateful for the job and won't rock the ship. He will be discarded by Jenkins if we struggle, to deflect away from the real culprits. This was an old trick of Jeremiahs. I hope Darren is a success, he's a good bloke, but even if he takes us up how much will he be given to spend?

Covering every pessimistic angle...
DM fails - sacked.
DM gets promotion - WBA spends no money.
Can you just keep your negative prediction of what will happen next season (post promotion) to yourself, or better still insert some factual information into your posts?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on August 29, 2018, 11:20:53 AM
Credit to Moore and Jones last night. They put out a side that were full of energy and fairly well balanced, giving a number of youngsters a chance in positions that they could thrive in (not counting Field out of position of course).

Also pleased to see him tweaking the tactics a bit by playing Burke as the loan striker, supplemented by 2 deeper lying attackers in Leko and Edwards. It gives us a bit more tactical flexibility if we aren't too dogmatic about having 2 centre forwards at all times. That was a good sign.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on August 29, 2018, 05:28:27 PM
Credit to Moore and Jones last night. They put out a side that were full of energy and fairly well balanced, giving a number of youngsters a chance in positions that they could thrive in (not counting Field out of position of course).

Also pleased to see him tweaking the tactics a bit by playing Burke as the loan striker, supplemented by 2 deeper lying attackers in Leko and Edwards. It gives us a bit more tactical flexibility if we aren't too dogmatic about having 2 centre forwards at all times. That was a good sign.

Can't fault him onthe cup games we got through both times using very youthful players. We need to follow this up by getting some of them loan deals to further there development.

League games still going with the brunt Livermore axis which has had 5 games and failed in 5 games for me. Still doesn't know his best back 3. Also now having let nyom go we now can't play 4 at the back- nears will not cut it at this level. Also persisting with 2 up front every away game might not be the answer.

We can't seriously talk about getting rid of Darren Moore until after xmas. His brief would have been lower the wages and get rid of some of the deadwood which on the whole he has done
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on August 30, 2018, 12:33:48 AM
Can't fault him onthe cup games we got through both times using very youthful players. We need to follow this up by getting some of them loan deals to further there development.

League games still going with the brunt Livermore axis which has had 5 games and failed in 5 games for me. Still doesn't know his best back 3. Also now having let nyom go we now can't play 4 at the back- nears will not cut it at this level. Also persisting with 2 up front every away game might not be the answer.

We can't seriously talk about getting rid of Darren Moore until after xmas. His brief would have been lower the wages and get rid of some of the deadwood which on the whole he has done
no that was Jenkins brief to cut running costs of club even to the detriment of playing squad. Darren is head coach and his brief is to get a team ready for league and Cup competitions even when board won't back him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 30, 2018, 08:01:06 AM
no that was Jenkins brief to cut running costs of club even to the detriment of playing squad. Darren is head coach and his brief is to get a team ready for league and Cup competitions even when board won't back him.
Freudian slip?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mr Cynical on August 30, 2018, 11:57:22 AM
Think that's been quite obvious when you look at the business this summer, every departure has been replaced with a similar positioned player on a lower wage.

Foster > Johnstone
Evans > Bartley
McClean > Barnes
McAuley > Tosin
Nyom > Mears/Townsend
Rondon > Gayle (not sure on the figures in this one but may be the only one that is close wages wise)

Just wanted to say that Krykowiack and Yacob have left without midifield replacement.  However, to balance that out I'd like to see one of Harper or Field get some game time.  From what I've seen of Harper this season (and Field last season - especially under Megson) I think they could hold their own alongside Livermore.

Mears isn't a signing that impressed me, but during the game on Tuesday he got better and looked stronger the longer the game went on.  He is cover only and looked OK. 

It's pretty clear that Moore is operating under a tight budget and Mears was a signing with the lowest impact on the budget.  So the question is was it done just to fill an absolutely necessary gap or was it in order to leave enough money in the pot for one more significant loan signing?

Jenkins statement about having significant funds was obvisouly based on selling players that we haven't sold, and was designed to appease and sell STs.  Normally clubs that are relegated have their most significant players picked off by PL clubs.  I think the lack of interest in some of our players has really surprised the club.  (Although I just read something about Chadli to Monaco, so maybe that's changed.)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on August 30, 2018, 05:02:01 PM
Just wanted to say that Krykowiack and Yacob have left without midifield replacement.  However, to balance that out I'd like to see one of Harper or Field get some game time.  From what I've seen of Harper this season (and Field last season - especially under Megson) I think they could hold their own alongside Livermore.

Mears isn't a signing that impressed me, but during the game on Tuesday he got better and looked stronger the longer the game went on.  He is cover only and looked OK. 

It's pretty clear that Moore is operating under a tight budget and Mears was a signing with the lowest impact on the budget.  So the question is was it done just to fill an absolutely necessary gap or was it in order to leave enough money in the pot for one more significant loan signing?

Jenkins statement about having significant funds was obvisouly based on selling players that we haven't sold, and was designed to appease and sell STs.  Normally clubs that are relegated have their most significant players picked off by PL clubs.  I think the lack of interest in some of our players has really surprised the club.  (Although I just read something about Chadli to Monaco, so maybe that's changed.)

I think the lack of interest in our players and/or the derisory offers made for them tells you everything you need to know about how good the squad TP left us actually is.  We may have been stuck with Chadli if he hadn't played those WC games for Belgium, just hope he passes the medical.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on August 31, 2018, 12:06:55 PM
It's becoming increasingly clear from Moore's comments in interviews, team selections and transfer market priorities that he does not see central midfield as the key area in need of strengthening.

He has failed to identify that this is our weak spot, probably because of being too close to Brunt and Livermore.

Sadly, central midfield is the beating heart of any team, and this will likely result in us surrendering too many games to be promoted.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mikehy on August 31, 2018, 12:20:02 PM
He is coming across as the boards puppet. Didn't think he'd be a yes man willing to take the flak for the people who haven't provided the tools for him to do a decent job
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on August 31, 2018, 12:22:47 PM
Thought he deserves his chance but clearly willing to put his personal ambitions before the club's welfare and go along as a yes man.

The fact he cannot see midfield as a massive problem is massively worrying
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on August 31, 2018, 12:28:42 PM
A lack lustre performance tomorrow and I think the tide will start ebbing
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on August 31, 2018, 12:30:29 PM
A lack lustre performance tomorrow and I think the tide will start ebbing

Really? When the last home league game fans were leaving gushing at the best performance for years, have we become that fickle?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on August 31, 2018, 12:49:52 PM
A lack lustre performance tomorrow and I think the tide will start ebbing


Bloody hell have I stumbled on villa talk, on the back of a 7-1 home win, an unlucky last minute goal at the league leaders and a cup win.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: smethwickw on August 31, 2018, 01:01:40 PM
If the club had any ambition whatsoever then Moore wouldn't have even made the managerial shortlist. I bet he still can't believe himself that he was given the job. Appointed to try and appease the fans whilst being a puppet that can be easily controlled from above.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: barnestormer on August 31, 2018, 01:11:23 PM
If the club had any ambition whatsoever then Moore wouldn't have even made the managerial shortlist. I bet he still can't believe himself that he was given the job. Appointed to try and appease the fans whilst being a puppet that can be easily controlled from above.
I'm woefully afraid I too am of this persuasion
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on August 31, 2018, 01:22:13 PM

Bloody hell have I stumbled on villa talk, on the back of a 7-1 home win, an unlucky last minute goal at the league leaders and a cup win.

Ah yes, a 7-1 drubbing of one of the worst team to grace our pitch for several seasons.
An unlucky last minute goal against a team we were lucky not to be 3 or 4 down to before that lucky goal, and a sneaky win against a team lying 13th in Division 2.
Wow, your aspirations appear to match those of our owners.
Its the owners commitment that I find hard to accept not what's going on on the pitch.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on August 31, 2018, 01:29:07 PM

Bloody hell have I stumbled on villa talk, on the back of a 7-1 home win, an unlucky last minute goal at the league leaders and a cup win.

Its laughable isn't it.

Let the team gel over the next month or so. If we're not top 6 and not putting together performances, then start to grumble.

I'm confident we'll be playing better and around the top come late October. If we're adrift of the top by January, then i'll be concerned. This degree of player turn over was always going to take a couple of months.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 31, 2018, 01:34:17 PM
Ah yes, a 7-1 drubbing of one of the worst team to grace our pitch for several seasons.
An unlucky last minute goal against a team we were lucky not to be 3 or 4 down to before that lucky goal, and a sneaky win against a team lying 13th in Division 2.
Wow, your aspirations appear to match those of our owners.
Its the owners commitment that I find hard to accept not what's going on on the pitch.

We went in 1-1 with QPR at half time, we just blew them away in the second half, they only looked really poor after the 4th goal went in maybe it was our good play that made them look so bad.

Considering Middlesbrough only had 3 efforts on target they would have been lucky to score 3 or 4. We were poor in that game though but while they were the better team they hardly troubled us really.

Against Mansfield we played with a line up that had hardly played any football this season and featured 3 academy kids, Mansfield made 2 changes from their side that regularly plays together...and we still won.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: barnestormer on August 31, 2018, 01:45:47 PM
We went in 1-1 with QPR at half time, we just blew them away in the second half, they only looked really poor after the 4th goal went in maybe it was our good play that made them look so bad.

Considering Middlesbrough only had 3 efforts on target they would have been lucky to score 3 or 4. We were poor in that game though but while they were the better team they hardly troubled us really.

Against Mansfield we played with a line up that had hardly played any football this season and featured 3 academy kids, Mansfield made 2 changes from their side that regularly plays together...and we still won.
Arnt our kids at least league 2 standard though and to be expected to perform adequately against their peers?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 31, 2018, 01:48:46 PM
Arnt our kids at least league 2 standard though and to be expected to perform adequately against their peers?

yes and they did... we won!
 My point was that we put out a team that hadn't played together before with some academy kids that also haven't had much if any game time against a side that plays together regularly so know each others game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on August 31, 2018, 01:53:18 PM
We went in 1-1 with QPR at half time, we just blew them away in the second half, they only looked really poor after the 4th goal went in maybe it was our good play that made them look so bad.

Considering Middlesbrough only had 3 efforts on target they would have been lucky to score 3 or 4. We were poor in that game though but while they were the better team they hardly troubled us really.

Against Mansfield we played with a line up that had hardly played any football this season and featured 3 academy kids, Mansfield made 2 changes from their side that regularly plays together...and we still won.

Your obviously of the glass half full persuasion, nothing wrong with that.
Its a game of opinions you have yours I have mine.
Just for the record the BBC website stats say they had 4 shots on target, so they could have had 3 or 4 goals.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: barnestormer on August 31, 2018, 01:58:00 PM
yes and they did... we won!
 My point was that we put out a team that hadn't played together before with some academy kids that also haven't had much if any game time against a side that plays together regularly so know each others game.
Fore that's the problem ATM,every game has been on the edge of your seat stuff,QPR accepted, and that just tells me we have a very soft underbelly that has not been addressed and will stop us beating bog standard teams in this league,January will be far too late to right the wrongs with inflated prices
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on August 31, 2018, 02:05:14 PM
Fore that's the problem ATM,every game has been on the edge of your seat stuff,QPR accepted, and that just tells me we have a very soft underbelly that has not been addressed and will stop us beating bog standard teams in this league,January will be far too late to right the wrongs with inflated prices

When Tony Mowbray was here in the chumps there was lots of edge of seat stuff, but most times we came out on top, as long as we do that its fine by me. I'd rather be on the edge of my seat than bored bloody rigid, Its not results at any price for me, sorry !
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 31, 2018, 02:10:25 PM
The fans will turn against Jenkins and lai.

I don't think the fans will turn against Moore at all. 90% of our fan base can see it's not
His fault
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 31, 2018, 02:11:49 PM
Your obviously of the glass half full persuasion, nothing wrong with that.
Its a game of opinions you have yours I have mine.
Just for the record the BBC website stats say they had 4 shots on target, so they could have had 3 or 4 goals.

fair enough hadn't seen the BBC report, the ones I'd seen said 3 on target. As you say all about opinions.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: smethwickw on August 31, 2018, 02:13:59 PM
When Tony Mowbray was here in the chumps there was lots of edge of seat stuff, but most times we came out on top, as long as we do that its fine by me. I'd rather be on the edge of my seat than bored bloody rigid, Its not results at any price for me, sorry !

I looked back at this the other day. We amassed only 81 points yet still won the league (drawing 12 and losing 11). I can't see us being as fluent as back then but we will hammer some of the lesser sides at home. I just think we'll struggle to break down anyone half decent as been proven so far this season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on August 31, 2018, 02:42:20 PM
I looked back at this the other day. We amassed only 81 points yet still won the league (drawing 12 and losing 11). I can't see us being as fluent as back then but we will hammer some of the lesser sides at home. I just think we'll struggle to break down anyone half decent as been proven so far this season.

Graeme Jones nailed it for me, Wins are what count in the chumps, I think (and hope) we will be going for it a lot more this season, especially at home.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on August 31, 2018, 02:45:35 PM
Graeme Jones nailed it for me, Wins are what count in the chumps, I think (and hope) we will be going for it a lot more this season, especially at home.

So we've chased a bloke all round Europe since the end of last season for him to state the bleedin obvious?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on August 31, 2018, 02:46:58 PM
So we've chased a bloke all round Europe since the end of last season for him to state the bleedin obvious?

Wasn't "bleedin obvious" to the Esteemed Tony Pulis was it ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: royhan on August 31, 2018, 02:51:10 PM
I keep logging on every 10 minutes to see if Moore has signed anyone. I know I am wasting my time but with two hours and 10 minutes to go before the window closes I can still hope!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on August 31, 2018, 02:56:02 PM
Wasn't "bleedin obvious" to the Esteemed Tony Pulis was it ?

did he manage us in the Championship?
Just my opinion but the Esteemed One' engineered his move out of here.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 31, 2018, 02:58:23 PM
Wasn't "bleedin obvious" to the Esteemed Tony Pulis was it ?

not defending Pulis but it was a different league with a different expectation. Draws aren't too bad when you are trying to stay in a division but not much use when you are trying to get promoted (which was Jones' point).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 31, 2018, 03:02:20 PM
A couple of things coming from Darren's lips worry me a bit.
"Gareth Barry has a big part to play this season" For me that should be a "bit part", even though I watched him orchestrate our young players very well in the first half on Tuesday night.
Problem is he tired so badly in the second half, which I think was the main reason for Mansfield basically overrunning us as the game wore on.
Personally I think that if we are going to rely on messr's Barry, Brunt, and Morrison to play a big part for us this season then we will be in trouble.
I also think that Darren is also over-doing the "we are one" "all in this together" lark a bit too much. Hoping that Albion supporters "remember Saido's goals and his performances" is a bit too much for me to stomach I am afraid.
Some things better left unsaid I think Darren.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on August 31, 2018, 03:14:33 PM
Overall Darren hasn't had to bad a start to the season points wise especially with his hand tied behind his back in the transfer market, its his substitutions were he needs grow & as to learn when & how to use them more wisely. 7/10
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 31, 2018, 04:59:47 PM
One thing I expected above else from Darren is that we would get honesty, integrity and no bias from him above all else. Sad to say, the evidence of the season so far has shown this not to be the case. He appears to be a yes man for Lai and Jenkins, he says that he's happy with poor perfomances, talks up players but doesn't reflect that with actions and he picks players based on who they are, rather than what form they're in and/or what they bring to the team/position.

Add to that his baffling decisions on substitutions and I have to admit that I expected more from him than has been delivered so far. I just hope that the influence of Graeme Jones increases so as to address some of these failings.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on August 31, 2018, 05:10:39 PM
We have a manager who managed around 13 professional games who has had no real support in recruitment (no technical director) for a while no chairman and has had to rebuild an old squad and start to form a new identity. I think the 2 former incumbents in the dugout should have the finger pointed at them for our current problems much more than Moore.
He doesn’t seem to be being helped by those above him and has had “model pros” act like children.
I for one am prepared to give him time and think considering he is being asked to do a job with his hands tied is doing alright.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on August 31, 2018, 05:18:28 PM
Totally agree with you Sir tony,and we paid off the two previous jokers as well for the privilege.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on August 31, 2018, 05:41:19 PM
One thing I expected above else from Darren is that we would get honesty, integrity and no bias from him above all else. Sad to say, the evidence of the season so far has shown this not to be the case. He appears to be a yes man for Lai and Jenkins, he says that he's happy with poor perfomances, talks up players but doesn't reflect that with actions and he picks players based on who they are, rather than what form they're in and/or what they bring to the team/position.

Add to that his baffling decisions on substitutions and I have to admit that I expected more from him than has been delivered so far. I just hope that the influence of Graeme Jones increases so as to address some of these failings.

I think that is a harsh assessment, calling his honest and integrity into question. You don't know anymore than the rest of us or do you?

He is an employee of an organisation, like you no doubt are and I was. You have to toe the party line in public even if you don't like or agree with decisions. But, who knows what he says behind closed doors and how he has influenced things, who knows without him it could be worse. Additionally, he is trying to hold the club together and unite it in what are difficult circumstances that he has inherited.

Would you have him resign and we go back to minus square 10? What then? And how committed would the next incumbent be to do as you want, and the next one and the next one as they all throw the towel in or are sacked because they openly disagree with the owner? Where then?

No one is immune to criticism, but let it be based on fact, because I haven't heard him be anything other than honest, there are parameters he has to work within, he has the best interest of the club at heart without doubt, but it doesn't suit everybody, obviously.

No doubt your comments were borne out of frustration, which is understandable, but I hope you would reconsider calling his honesty and integrity into question

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 31, 2018, 06:16:35 PM
No doubt your comments were borne out of frustration, which is understandable, but I hope you would reconsider calling his honesty and integrity into question
I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed then. I seek to be objective in all of my opinions and try to explain my viewpoint. If something's good I'll say it is and if something's bad I'll say that too. I don't do happy clapping, because I regard that as taking a path towards mediocrity and stagnation.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on August 31, 2018, 06:26:11 PM
I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed then. I seek to be objective in all of my opinions and try to explain my viewpoint. If something's good I'll say it is and if something's bad I'll say that too. I don't do happy clapping, because I regard that as taking a path towards mediocrity and stagnation.

I'm never disappointed by fans these days for many obvious reasons.

So, you have evidence, as you alluded to in your earlier post, of his dishonesty and lack of integrity? Are you able to share that with us?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Canmore Baggie on August 31, 2018, 07:18:12 PM
One thing I expected above else from Darren is that we would get honesty, integrity and no bias from him above all else. Sad to say, the evidence of the season so far has shown this not to be the case. He appears to be a yes man for Lai and Jenkins, he says that he's happy with poor perfomances, talks up players but doesn't reflect that with actions and he picks players based on who they are, rather than what form they're in and/or what they bring to the team/position.

Add to that his baffling decisions on substitutions and I have to admit that I expected more from him than has been delivered so far. I just hope that the influence of Graeme Jones increases so as to address some of these failings.

If you delete the part in bold I think you sum up very accurately the frustration of many of us - myself included. I would never question DM's integrity, but I do question his ability to lead the club where it needs to be. He has my support, but not without concern, and the longer he persists with the same tactics, personnel and substitutions the more concerned I become.

Definitely a question of ability though, and not one of integrity.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 31, 2018, 07:44:17 PM
So, you have evidence, as you alluded to in your earlier post, of his dishonesty and lack of integrity? Are you able to share that with us?
I explained the reasons behind my viewpoint in my original post.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 31, 2018, 07:46:17 PM
Definitely a question of ability though, and not one of integrity.
Having sacred cows in your team selection demonstrates a lack of integrity in my book.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on August 31, 2018, 07:47:38 PM
I explained the reasons behind my viewpoint in my original post.

Then I think your post is dishonest and lacks integrity as you accused Darren of being
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on August 31, 2018, 08:54:18 PM
One thing I expected above else from Darren is that we would get honesty, integrity and no bias from him above all else. Sad to say, the evidence of the season so far has shown this not to be the case. He appears to be a yes man for Lai and Jenkins, he says that he's happy with poor perfomances, talks up players but doesn't reflect that with actions and he picks players based on who they are, rather than what form they're in and/or what they bring to the team/position.

Add to that his baffling decisions on substitutions and I have to admit that I expected more from him than has been delivered so far. I just hope that the influence of Graeme Jones increases so as to address some of these failings.
He's only a handful of games into a new season , he's trying to bed a passing game in ( which you wanted If I remember ) . I raise my eyebrows at a few things but to question his honesty , integrity and bias at this stage is  far fetched for me . There isn't a football manager around who doesn't have favoured players , certainly not in my time watching the Albion anyway.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on September 01, 2018, 08:06:26 AM
In my opinion (all I have) , Darren is as honest as the day is long. He's trying to do his best. So far, he's shown signs of learning, developing and by brining in Jones, he's shown he wants gone elope a more passing and attacking bass game. We've seen this in the goals count (+\-!).

Like any manager we need to see after about 15 games how things are developing. Unlike any manager, he really understands the club (good and bad) plus loves it. Those last two bits means a lot to me anyway.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 01, 2018, 08:32:15 AM
Then I think your post is dishonest and lacks integrity as you accused Darren of being
Well, at least I explained my reasoning, whereas you've just posted a one-liner.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 01, 2018, 08:34:42 AM
There isn't a football manager around who doesn't have favoured players , certainly not in my time watching the Albion anyway.
As I recall, a lot of people have criticised them for it as well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on September 01, 2018, 09:41:14 AM
As I recall, a lot of people have criticised them for it as well.
Exactly which makes that part of your post even more vague to be honest , day in day out football that is.
Sure I posted more  in that in reply too.... :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 01, 2018, 10:39:39 AM
Exactly which makes that part of your post even more vague to be honest , day in day out football that is.
Sure I posted more  in that in reply too.... :)
As a former no-nonsense central defender I (obviously naively) expected Darren to be part of a new breed which makes fair, rational and objective decisions when picking the side.

I didn't answer your comment about the style of play because how we play is irrelevant to the original point I made.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on September 01, 2018, 11:49:40 AM
Well, at least I explained my reasoning, whereas you've just posted a one-liner.

One thing I expected above else from Darren is that we would get honesty, integrity and no bias from him above all else. Sad to say, the evidence of the season so far has shown this not to be the case.
It's obvious you didn't want Darren as Head Coach, as I recall your choice was Thomas Tuchel, well dream on, on that one. And at every opportunity since his appointment you've had a snip at him as you don't consider him to be the attack minded coach you wanted. You’ve said words to the effect “he has my support”, but here we are five league games into the season, he has a 40% win rate and you make this post.

He appears to be a yes man for Lai and Jenkins,
I think Mourinho said this week that there was no problem with him and the Man United Board; does that make him a yes man? There are politics at play in every club, Darren and our club are no different in that respect and you call into question his honesty and integrity.


he says that he's happy with poor perfomances, talks up players but doesn't reflect that with actions.
He is a professional and is looking at the game from a different prospective than supporters, his livelihood depends on it. When I was at school my English Teacher, who was also our football coach was an ex-Nottingham Forest player and he always said the player without the ball is just as important as the player with the ball. Just because a player isn’t dominating the ball doesn’t mean he’s having a bad game, he can influence play in many other ways and if a player is fulfilling the role that the Head Coach has assigned him within the team framework, then the Head Coach is right to acknowledge that and if the team have performed to an acceptable level based on his tactics, he is right to acknowledge that as well, but show me where he has said he is “happy with poor performance” and you call into question his honesty and integrity for doing what every Head Coach / Manager does week in and week out. Very few managers are critical of their players in public after a game, because these same players have to play for him in the next match and the next match et al and if they don’t perform, the sack is not far off for the Head Coach. How would you feel if your boss, in front of your pier group, subordinates and customers was openly critical of your performance?

and he picks players based on who they are, rather than what form they're in and/or what they bring to the team/position.
He selects the team based on what he considers will give us the best opportunity of winning. He sees them training during the week and I doubt he has favourites, but he acknowledges and respects experience in what is a tough and completive league and has the right to select who he thinks will give us the best chance of being completive in it. It may not be your choice or mine, but don’t call into question his honesty and integrity for doing his job the best he can

Add to that his baffling decisions on substitutions and I have to admit that I expected more from him than has been delivered so far.
His substitutions may be baffling to you, but they make sense to him and his tactical game plan. Substitutions are normally planned in advance of the game and discussed amongst the coaches; there will be a range of options based on how the game is developing, injuries obviously alter options, but you can’t really legislate for who is going to get injured and how that effects the game plan and tactics, also there’s the old adage, “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” and the Head Coach gets to decide on that one as well.

I just hope that the influence of Graeme Jones increases so as to address some of these failings.
Credit to Darren for appointing someone he knows and trust and someone with greater experience than he has himself, I think that of itself displays honesty and integrity on the part of Darren. And know another disservice to Darren “failings”, five games into the season. I seem to recall you heralded the appointment of Alan Pardew as you perceived him to be an attacking coach, well that went well. The difference is you were prepared to give Pardew more time and I can’t recall you calling his honesty and integrity into question, when he may well have been more deserving of your angst.

So, I ask again, based on your statement about his honesty and integrity “Sad to say, the evidence of the season so far has shown this not to be the case.” Where is the evidence for this, because I have seen nothing in your post to substantiate that statement?

Fans will always criticise Head Coaches / Managers, but I think a line is crossed if, without substantial evidence, their honesty and integrity are called into question when they are doing the job to the best of their ability and with the resources available to him.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 01, 2018, 12:26:47 PM
at every opportunity since his appointment you've had a snip at him as you don't consider him to be the attack minded coach you wanted. You’ve said words to the effect “he has my support”, but here we are five league games into the season, he has a 40% win rate and you make this post.
You're ranting like I've called for Darren to be sacked, which I haven't done, unlike some others. You must have also missed where I wrote "so far". Like I've said, I call everything as I see it at the time, good or bad. The forum would be a bit dull if everything was given 6 months before anyone commented.

You obviously just want to justify everything as being good, that's your choice. For example, you obviously think it's absolutely fine and sensible to continue playing Brunt in a position in which he's worse than ineffective and I don't. That's a choice to which you're entitled, but I don't have to answer to you for the views that I hold.

I don't have the time or energy to respond to the rest of your post (but thank you for taking the trouble to post it), other than that I find your knowledge of my historical posts (some of your comments about which I would dispute if I had the aforementioned time/energy) a bit creepy to be perfectly honest. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on September 01, 2018, 12:48:24 PM
As a former no-nonsense central defender I (obviously naively) expected Darren to be part of a new breed which makes fair, rational and objective decisions when picking the side.

I didn't answer your comment about the style of play because how we play is irrelevant to the original point I made.
Your original post refers to poor performances and baffling subs , both to do with playing/ playing style from where I'm stood . As with my origjnal reply , I think he needs at least 15 games before things as strong as  you first posted hit the forums .
For whats its worth Im a bit bothered by a few things but I wouldn't question a rookie over how conducts himself straight away . I wouldn't think Jenkins is ideal to work with either for a newbie.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on September 01, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
You're ranting like I've called for Darren to be sacked, which I haven't done, unlike some others. You must have also missed where I wrote "so far". Like I've said, I call everything as I see it at the time, good or bad. The forum would be a bit dull if everything was given 6 months before anyone commented.

The thing I didn’t miss was questioning his honesty and integrity, no problem at all with comments it’s the, just the honesty and integrity for doing his job.

You obviously just want to justify everything as being good, that's your choice. For example, you obviously think it's absolutely fine and sensible to continue playing Brunt in a position in which he's worse than ineffective and I don't. That's a choice to which you're entitled, but I don't have to answer to you for the views that I hold.

I suggest, you re read all my post if that is your perception

I don't have the time or energy to respond to the rest of your post (but thank you for taking the trouble to post it), other than that I find your knowledge of my historical posts (some of your comments about which I would dispute if I had the aforementioned time/energy) a bit creepy to be perfectly honest.

I think your posts below are contradictory to what you write above and previous posts on Darren
21st November
Welcome to The Hawthorns Alan, I'm certain there are some exciting times ahead!


28th November
So, whilst Pardew wasn't my choice, I would urge everyone to put aside their prejudices about him and judge him on what he does during his time with us, rather than writing him off at the outset.


29th November
What a breath of fresh air - I hope the positivity he's exuding soon brings some rewards.


You are quick to defend Pardew and post comments to another member (wigmore) who dared to question Pardew’s appointment
30th November
Fast forward to the appointment of Alan Pardew and you've had absolutely nothing to say about him so far apart from withering and sarcastic comments.


1st December
There are some who thought Pulis shouldn't be judged yet despite having been here for 5 transfer windows, so it doesn't seem like you're willing to give Pardew any time at all really.


5th December
Can you really not see the plainly obvious signs of improvement since AP arrived?


17th December
Everything AP says, both before and after games, has made eminent sense so far, so I have every faith that he'll get things going in the right direction sooner rather than later.


17th December
It's pointless speculating what AP might do when players are fit again, let's judge him based on what he actually does, eh?

17th December
I think AP deserves to be cut some slack and I believe that things will come good with him at the helm.


24th December
At this point in time I think we need to get behind him, because he is trying to improve our play and performances.


Its just a shame you didn't write similarly about Darren
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on September 01, 2018, 02:10:48 PM
Thought Darren would be more progressive in intergrating younger player's into first team.  :o that only change for Stoke Dawson in for city kid. Midfield continues to be a problem and if coaches cannot see this then we are in for a long season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on September 01, 2018, 02:27:44 PM
Moore isn't learning based on that team selection. Selecting players based on name and reputation rather than ability and form. Harper MOTM in the cup and out of the squad. Brunt and Livermore poor in all 5 games start again. Townsend excellent in all his games, out of the squad because he's not part of the old guard. Same with Tosin.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on September 01, 2018, 02:51:01 PM
Selecting players based on name and reputation rather than ability and form. Harper MOTM in the cup and out of the squad. Brunt and Livermore poor in all 5 games start again.

Spot on. I think patience is starting to run thin with Livermore and Brunt getting guaranteed starting places in central midfield. One of the few highlights of relegation was more game time for the likes of Harper and yet nothing has changed. Harper should have at least been on the bench. Pressure to win today's game or questions are going to be asked.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: telford baggie on September 01, 2018, 02:57:19 PM
The fans will turn against Jenkins and lai.

I don't think the fans will turn against Moore at all. 90% of our fan base can see it's not
His fault
keep picking players that are not performing is his fault cant keep blaming jenkins and lai, he coaches the players he picks the team, worse defensive performances for years and cm shocking that is down to DM but lets blame jenkins.nobody knows who Darren Moore wanted and didnt want he might have made all decisions but just a puppet
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie96 on September 01, 2018, 05:07:21 PM
Doing an excellent job, teams decent on the ball which is mad considering it’s mainly the same team
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on September 01, 2018, 05:18:35 PM
Tactically inept according to some  :o
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie96 on September 01, 2018, 05:25:44 PM
Tactically inept according to some  :o

First 2 games were pretty bad, since Graeme jones came in it’s been excellent
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on September 01, 2018, 05:31:42 PM
Brunt and Livermore played well today so that will continue. I felt tactically today the only problems were the faffing at the back when Stoke pressed defenders.

The Bartleys and Hegazis of this world aren't going to be overly good when pressured.

Can't argue with the top 3 and the wingers today. You'd think Harper and Townsend had done enough to be on the bench but we've come away with 3 points having been by far the better team today. We had an iffy 10 mins first half when Bartley and Johnstone went a bit loopy with their decision making.

Second half the defence were far better and ate up everything they hit us with from the wings.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on September 01, 2018, 05:36:25 PM
Moore isn't learning based on that team selection. Selecting players based on name and reputation rather than ability and form. Harper MOTM in the cup and out of the squad. Brunt and Livermore poor in all 5 games start again. Townsend excellent in all his games, out of the squad because he's not part of the old guard. Same with Tosin.

Livermore was good against Norwich and excellent against QPR oh and Livermore man of match with Gayle today :) Its a funny old game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on September 01, 2018, 05:37:25 PM
First 2 games were pretty bad, since Graeme jones came in it’s been excellent

Beat Poch, Mourinho and Benitez and drew with Klopp before Jones :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 01, 2018, 05:47:25 PM
He needs to work on his sustitutions.

Again they were nonsensical.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on September 01, 2018, 05:49:34 PM
All new systems have teething problems. He’s not only changing tactics from 3 years of Pulis/Pardew but he’s trying to change ethos of the club.

These things take time.

If we can stay in touch of the top of the table until Jan when we can strengthen then we’re in a good position.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on September 01, 2018, 05:52:18 PM
He needs to work on his sustitutions.

Again they were nonsensical.

100%
Should have had leko or Burke on for one of the front men to keep stretching them. So many gaps at the end but Rodriquez and hrk don't have any pace to exploit it.
Holding 2-0 is why it finished 2-1 we would have been better going for the third...

Having said that we have 10 points from 6 games with +7 GD and we have played boro forest and stoke who will all be in the top 7/8 imo we have a "kinder" run of games so it looks promisingly
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on September 01, 2018, 05:55:23 PM
Young lad making his first game for Swansea, straight red for a potential leg breaker...some are rash, some aren't.

We need to slowly put them in. Which we've been doing so far in the cup, they will get further chances.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on September 01, 2018, 05:58:23 PM
He needs to work on his sustitutions.

Again they were nonsensical.

HRK has already scored twice this season coming off the bench. He's not great but you can see why Moore would bring him on.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on September 01, 2018, 07:46:58 PM
He needs to work on his sustitutions.

Again they were nonsensical.

Baking hot in the stands. must have been even worse on the pitch. Even the refs assistant had to ask for water.

Nonsensical? why?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on September 01, 2018, 07:48:49 PM
We worked really hard and looked a bit knackered last ten minutes or so. Hardly surprising it must have been hot as hell on that pitch.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on September 01, 2018, 09:02:31 PM
Moore is very quickly laying to rest one of the fears I had that he would play negative hoofball. It might not be seamless at times but he is trying to play an attacking style of football. For this alone he has my undying gratitude.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: colinmax on September 02, 2018, 11:01:06 AM
We could easily dropped points yesterday and probably would have if they had scored the penalty.
With 3 or 4 assistant coaches on the bench and constantly jumping up to have a word with DM you would think that one of then would notice that the flow of the game was changing and suggest a young quick player with fresh legs to keep their centre backs and midfielders occupied. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dan on September 02, 2018, 11:09:47 AM
He's a very young manager, he's just past double digit amount of games in his career. He also does not have an extensive first team coaching career before this.

Much like with young players, you need to give plenty of patience. He's showing plenty of promise so far and I was originally skeptical of his appointment. I like that he's not Pulis V2 as it it seemed like he might be style wise. I like that he's got a commitment to trying to play the ball out - its brave because as happened with City people can't wait to tear that style apart if it ever fails. I like that he's got a decent mixture of youth and experienced pro's playing (though a few of our own in there would be nice).

He's not perfect, his subs are often conservative and seem pre-mediated, and I think Brunt playing consistently in central midfield could be improved upon, likewise defensively we've been poor. But weigh up the positives and there's a lot to enjoy.

I suspect had he been backed like Rowett was, we'd be doing even better.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on September 02, 2018, 11:35:48 AM
Hey Colin, why do you think the negative?
We could also have scored ourselves at that time.
The other jumping up and down coaches are doing their jobs assisting.
Just a reminder to you,we won the game and outplayed Stoke completely in my opinion,crikey mate lighten up a bit,a wins a win and we did it in style.
If you want to be critical go watch Villa.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on September 02, 2018, 11:45:17 AM
He's a very young manager, he's just past double digit amount of games in his career. He also does not have an extensive first team coaching career before this.

Much like with young players, you need to give plenty of patience. He's showing plenty of promise so far and I was originally skeptical of his appointment. I like that he's not Pulis V2 as it it seemed like he might be style wise. I like that he's got a commitment to trying to play the ball out - its brave because as happened with City people can't wait to tear that style apart if it ever fails. I like that he's got a decent mixture of youth and experienced pro's playing (though a few of our own in there would be nice).

He's not perfect, his subs are often conservative and seem pre-mediated, and I think Brunt playing consistently in central midfield could be improved upon, likewise defensively we've been poor. But weigh up the positives and there's a lot to enjoy.

I suspect had he been backed like Rowett was, we'd be doing even better.


I'd agree with almost all of that. The only thing I'd mention is I don't think we've been as bad defensively and people tend to suggest. It's not like we're shipping three or four goals a game. We do need to improve defensively for sure but we haven't been cronic. I thought yesterday other than when we created our own problems we were pretty sound, only a worldie away from a clean sheet. I know they missed a pen, that was bad decision making from Livermore the ball wasn't even going in.

Work to be done, yes but you could argue we were really unlucky to concede at Boro and yesterday. Could easily have been two clean sheets.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 02, 2018, 02:17:27 PM
He needs to work on his sustitutions.

Again they were nonsensical.

Could not agree more. His substitutions this season to date have been poor.

Better display yesterday, but ultimately with the starting team we have we should win 90% of games this season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on September 02, 2018, 02:19:53 PM
Great result yesterday but still concerned that we can’t keep clean sheet and I like few posters on here wonder why is Darren not introducing youngster's especially Burke who could of stretched their back line  ::)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on September 02, 2018, 02:31:05 PM
Given how few people weren't giving him a chance and expecting mid table at best, the fact he's exceeding some expectations and still people are unhappy are equally impressive!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on September 02, 2018, 02:36:53 PM
Given how few people weren't giving him a chance and expecting mid table at best, the fact he's exceeding some expectations and still people are unhappy are equally impressive!


The way he set the team up at the end of last season left me deeply concerned about his philosophy. This season he's set the team up totally differently. I have the odd issue with him but overall I'm delighted with the way Darren is approaching games. Field for Brunt and I'd have no complaints whatsoever.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 02, 2018, 03:50:38 PM

The way he set the team up at the end of last season left me deeply concerned about his philosophy. This season he's set the team up totally differently. I have the odd issue with him but overall I'm delighted with the way Darren is approaching games. Field for Brunt and I'd have no complaints whatsoever.
Brunt to come in later...When our forwards' have worn the opposition down
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on September 02, 2018, 04:20:27 PM
7 games in 22 days after the 2 week break, very interesting to see how he manages the squad then
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: leeiswba on September 02, 2018, 04:45:24 PM
Given how few people weren't giving him a chance and expecting mid table at best, the fact he's exceeding some expectations and still people are unhappy are equally impressive!

It is quite weird mate isn’t it, lots of people said they would rather be in the championship than have Pulis as manager and also said we would not finish above mid table are still moaning even though we are winning games in the league they didnt mind being in.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: colinmax on September 02, 2018, 06:57:06 PM
I object to being described as negative when I feel I am being objective.
If you do not agree with my views so be it but this would be a very poor website if every time we won we said didn't DM do well and different opinions were not aired.
I suggested we sign Harry McGuire 6 months before he went to Leicester and I was possibly the first to recommend we go for Dean Smith and I got reprimanded by the administrator because Pulis had not actually gone so there was no vacancy.
I always try to give an objective view and regarding the Stoke match if the penalty had been scored the adage that goals change matches could well have come into play.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wigmore on September 02, 2018, 07:51:37 PM
Great result yesterday but still concerned that we can’t keep clean sheet and I like few posters on here wonder why is Darren not introducing youngster's especially Burke who could of stretched their back line  ::)

After a better defensive display, the only reason we did not keep a clean sheet was a unstoppable 25 metre worldie  from a SCFC fullback, Eric Pieters, who has a strike rate of 3 goals in 10 seasons.
Hardly a major blemish on our defender's collective record.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on September 02, 2018, 08:07:42 PM
I am a big advocate of giving young players a chance if we can but the way some people talk about our young players you would think they were the busby babes or the class of 92. I read and heard people saying how burke and Leko should have come on for sure and would have made a huge difference. Leko has had one good game against mansfield as far as I can tell. He rarely played for bristol city last year. Burke has played well in fits and starts but isn't an obvious game changer. I am happy to give them a chance and think DM is trying too but I wouldn't blame him for not playing them yesterday. HRK for all his faults has scored 2 off the bench this season and Barry was an obvious choice to shore up the midfield.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on September 02, 2018, 08:44:34 PM
I am a big advocate of giving young players a chance if we can but the way some people talk about our young players you would think they were the busby babes or the class of 92. I read and heard people saying how burke and Leko should have come on for sure and would have made a huge difference. Leko has had one good game against mansfield as far as I can tell. He rarely played for bristol city last year. Burke has played well in fits and starts but isn't an obvious game changer. I am happy to give them a chance and think DM is trying too but I wouldn't blame him for not playing them yesterday. HRK for all his faults has scored 2 off the bench this season and Barry was an obvious choice to shore up the midfield.

As one who thought Burke should be brought on I'll answer your point. Burke wouldn't have had to be a "game changer" though would he, by bringing him on it would have meant we could have kept the same shape as we had with Barnes on the pitch rather than sitting back with 3 cm 's on the pitch. Barry was more of a game changing sub as we went to a very defensive shape (a la Pulis) and tried to see out the last 10 mins. Burke would have given an out ball with pace to occupy Stokes defenders. When Stoke had a corner in injury time we had no one up field at all, Burke could have been an option near the half way line.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on September 02, 2018, 10:25:31 PM
As one who thought Burke should be brought on I'll answer your point. Burke wouldn't have had to be a "game changer" though would he, by bringing him on it would have meant we could have kept the same shape as we had with Barnes on the pitch rather than sitting back with 3 cm 's on the pitch. Barry was more of a game changing sub as we went to a very defensive shape (a la Pulis) and tried to see out the last 10 mins. Burke would have given an out ball with pace to occupy Stokes defenders. When Stoke had a corner in injury time we had no one up field at all, Burke could have been an option near the half way line.

The problem with bringing Leko or Burke on when the games is finely balanced is that they both could easily loose the ball in possession without tracking back either,Leko did exactly this in his last premier league game when Pulis introduced him,the opposition scored and it cost us
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: pensnett stu on September 02, 2018, 11:18:21 PM
Yes I remember that game Townsend took it off Leko ran most of the length of the pitch and not another Albion player bothered to tackle him and he scored, but Pulis blamed Leko and I think he never picked him again..Good job the likes of Statham, Robertson and Robson aren't around these days they'd have been loaned out, I wouldn't have seen 3 great baggies players.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on September 03, 2018, 12:48:00 PM

The problem with bringing Leko or Burke on when the games is finely balanced is that they both could easily loose the ball in possession without tracking back either,Leko did exactly this in his last premier league game when Pulis introduced him,the opposition scored and it cost us


I never mentioned Leko. I wanted Burke on rather than Barry. The game wasn't finely balanced though was it? We were 2-0 up with 10 minutes to go and in control when Barry came on. We dropped back and pretty much stopped attacking ...and then Stoke scored.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on September 03, 2018, 01:14:24 PM

I never mentioned Leko. I wanted Burke on rather than Barry. The game wasn't finely balanced though was it? We were 2-0 up with 10 minutes to go and in control when Barry came on. We dropped back and pretty much stopped attacking ...and then Stoke scored.


I tend to agree with you.It's OK trying to protect a lead if that's what you want to do but you still have to have a threat otherwise you don't get out. Burke would've at least kept Stoke's centre backs honest knowing that his pace in behind could potentially hurt them.

Saturday was a very warm day and we worked very hard throughout the game. I think we tired the last ten minutes or so and Darren's decision to bring on old, slow legs just invited pressure.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on September 03, 2018, 01:51:36 PM
Don't really think there is a right or wrong answer to the substitutions question, its all about opinion.  HRK came on for Gayle, he doesn't offer the pace or spark but has scored two goals coming on as sub and showed some know-how to draw a few fouls and kill the game off in the last few minutes of injury time.

The one causing discussion, the Barry substitution, wasn't made until the 87th minute, and was a standard pack the midfield and "lets see the game out" kind of substitution.  This did draw some pressure, but it was working until JRods legs went (he did some miles on Saturday) and he just could not get to Pieters who hit a peach.    Burke for Barnes would have left us with three out and out attacking players on the pitch (Burke is no all rounder like Barnes).  Maybe we could have left Burke up top and played JRod and HRK deeper, but I can't say I'm sure that would have been the best decision.   

In conclusion, I have no conclusion as to the quality of these substitutions.  Conservative? yes probably. Poor or wrong? Not sure about that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on September 03, 2018, 02:00:20 PM
We have to be pleased not just by the results but by the way we are attempting to play.
Both Darren Moore and the team are on a learning curve, and I think the mid table predictions are down to how long it would take to implement the transition, and so far we are exceeding expectations.
I do believe though that Darren Moore is the motivator and decision maker during games, while Jones is the tactician who gets us playing expansive football. No complaints from me if we carry on in this vein.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on September 03, 2018, 02:22:33 PM
We have to be pleased not just by the results but by the way we are attempting to play.
Both Darren Moore and the team are on a learning curve, and I think the mid table predictions are down to how long it would take to implement the transition, and so far we are exceeding expectations.
I do believe though that Darren Moore is the motivator and decision maker during games, while Jones is the tactician who gets us playing expansive football. No complaints from me if we carry on in this vein.


Brian Clough / Peter Taylor. That'll do for me.  ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on September 03, 2018, 02:38:42 PM
We have to be pleased not just by the results but by the way we are attempting to play.
Both Darren Moore and the team are on a learning curve, and I think the mid table predictions are down to how long it would take to implement the transition, and so far we are exceeding expectations.
I do believe though that Darren Moore is the motivator and decision maker during games, while Jones is the tactician who gets us playing expansive football. No complaints from me if we carry on in this vein.

Totally agree, I'm very happy with the potential for this combination.  I would also say that Darren Moore will be no mug when it comes to tactics either, just less experienced than Jones in applying his ideas in a team environment.  This is a guy that was taking his coaching badges in his mid 20's, when he met Jones, and they obviously share an ideology on football tactics and how the game should in general should be played.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Cantello on September 03, 2018, 05:29:54 PM
Can’t believe how much negativity there can be on this forum.  We’re a club in transition with a much loved manager playing football that can be an absolute joy to watch.  Work in progress but very much going the right way.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on September 03, 2018, 06:48:47 PM
Can’t believe how much negativity there can be on this forum.  We’re a club in transition with a much loved manager playing football that can be an absolute joy to watch.  Work in progress but very much going the right way.

It just opinions Cantello. People can say they feel the subs need improvements without it being all doom and gloom.

Near enough every Albion fan you meet, here and offline is happy with how great Saturday was.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on September 05, 2018, 01:37:24 PM
"Wayne Jacobs named assistant head coach as role at West Brom made official"

Completes his coaching staff no doubt

Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/09/05/wayne-jacobs-named-assistant-head-coach-as-role-at-west-brom-made-official/
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on September 14, 2018, 09:21:56 PM
Shocking performance  whatever the opposition
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on September 14, 2018, 09:26:14 PM
Well I am fed up with his pathetic continuance of sticking with the old guard, who have let us down continually. I have stated previously that I am not bothered about getting back to the Prem, I want to see us building a good young team for the future, and Darren Moore does not have either the will or the way.
He will have to be replaced, this is neither one thing or the other.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2018, 09:41:02 PM
Rapidly losing faith with DM and i was a fan. When things are so obvious and you cannot see them as a manager its worrying.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on September 14, 2018, 09:43:00 PM
"There's only one big dave" from the away end. Shows people who actually pay money have faith.

We are 5th. 7 games in.

We've lost 2 games!!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mini gaardsoe on September 14, 2018, 09:45:56 PM
"There's only one big dave" from the away end. Shows people who actually pay money have faith.

We are 5th. 7 games in.

We've lost 2 games!!!

He’s so tactically naive though, Monk got his tactics spot on tonight, we were embarrassing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on September 14, 2018, 09:46:39 PM
"There's only one big dave" from the away end. Shows people who actually pay money have faith.

We are 5th. 7 games in.

We've lost 2 games!!!

We're joint 8th with the other teams to play tomorrow, realistically we'll be about 11th come Sunday which isn't great.

One thing I've noticed about Moore is that he struggles to break down defensive teams; in the Premier League it was the opposite, but as the aggressor he lacks ideas.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on September 14, 2018, 09:51:12 PM
Needs to learn that you’re allowed to change shape during a game. Also needs to learn that you don’t get points deductions for playing young players in league games. If not we need to make a change, his in game management is honestly no better that what you see during Sunday league.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on September 14, 2018, 09:52:52 PM
Happy that Darren got the job but he's persistence with Brunt in the middle is beginning to urine me off
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on September 14, 2018, 09:53:40 PM
"There's only one big dave" from the away end. Shows people who actually pay money have faith.

We are 5th. 7 games in.

We've lost 2 games!!!
I pay money and do not believe. I don't care where we are in the league he is not giving the kids a chance despite abject performances from some of the seniors.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on September 14, 2018, 09:57:01 PM
For me, tonight is proof that unfortunately, DM isn't up to the job
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on September 14, 2018, 09:57:52 PM
"There's only one big dave" from the away end. Shows people who actually pay money have faith.

We are 5th. 7 games in.

We've lost 2 games!!!
I pay money and do not believe. I don't care where we are in the league he is not giving the kids a chance despite abject performances from some of the seniors.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on September 14, 2018, 10:03:39 PM
For me, tonight is proof that unfortunately, DM isn't up to the job

Shhhh. You're not allowed to say that here. Everything is awesome, remember?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on September 14, 2018, 10:13:58 PM
For me, tonight is proof that unfortunately, DM isn't up to the job

We take a point and move on but performances like that are simply not acceptable over the long term . There are major question marks over the coaching particularly defensively . The players look ill at ease passing the ball from the back and they should be asked to do the simple things first and foremost . Nice bloke but I fear for him when someone beats us heavily .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on September 14, 2018, 10:15:17 PM
too early to get the noose out but Moore needs to up his game and show he's a strong enough character to change players who aren't performing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: cornishbaggie on September 14, 2018, 10:17:55 PM
Give him time. Not the finished article. Needs time to learn on the job. Patience required. It's still September. Give him at least a year.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on September 14, 2018, 10:18:17 PM
too early to get the noose out but Moore needs to up his game and show he's a strong enough character to change players who aren't performing.

Correct hopefully he gives Barry or field a go over brunt.

As I stated on after match thread my biggest concern is how he fails to really change anything with his subs. He doesn't change tactics or shape jsut the perssonel. Having said that since he's been here we have only lost 3 games. Squad still needs loads of work and his hands were tied all summer hopefully we can fix the isses come Jan.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Sted1990 on September 14, 2018, 10:37:19 PM
Disappointed in his reaction to the first half. Every Albion Fan could see at half time that  we needed a change at centre Mid and left back but once again he didnt react.

This is happening too often away from home and I fear it will cost us dearly come May.

You may be a legend but this reluctance to react is not good enough.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on September 14, 2018, 10:48:35 PM
Absolutely awful.  He doesn’t have a clue.

I’d say Barry and Hoolahan are superior footballers to Brunt / Livermore.  If he doesn’t bomb them out soon then automatic promotion will be lost.  I’d rather see Burke deployed as a sub up front than HRK.  You can also make a case for Dawson being switched back to centre half instead of Bartley. 

I just don’t think Moore is intelligent enough in game mode.  Yes he has the qualifications but just isn’t sharp enough to alter things.  Monk is easily better tactically.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Canmore Baggie on September 14, 2018, 10:49:49 PM
Give him time. Not the finished article. Needs time to learn on the job. Patience required. It's still September. Give him at least a year.

In a perfect world yes, but can we really afford to do that?
We are in the short-term position of having a squad that is way ahead of the rest of the division in terms of class, and having financial resources to back us. This does not last very long, and we need a manager who is tactically astute enough to take advantage.

I am not advocating sacking Darren Moore now - would be way too early - but he does need to get his act together and demonstrate that he can do the job at the level required.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on September 14, 2018, 10:58:23 PM
Absolutely awful.  He doesn’t have a clue.

I’d say Barry and Hoolahan are superior footballers to Brunt / Livermore.  If he doesn’t bomb them out soon then automatic promotion will be lost.  I’d rather see Burke deployed as a sub up front than HRK.  You can also make a case for Dawson being switched back to centre half instead of Bartley. 

I just don’t think Moore is intelligent enough in game mode.  Yes he has the qualifications but just isn’t sharp enough to alter things.  Monk is easily better tactically.
Burke is awful and who ever paid 15 mill ought to be ashamed! Darren Moore not intelligent? Dear oh dear
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on September 14, 2018, 11:09:49 PM
Burke is awful and who ever paid 15 mill ought to be ashamed! Darren Moore not intelligent? Dear oh dear

Robson Kanu is not going to get any better at 30 years old and is limited.
I’d say Burke has potential and he needs to play to learn whether it’s here or on loan.
Are you happy then with the way Moore sets up the team and subs?  Monk would give his right arm for the quality WBA have.  He’s scrapping away with free transfers yet has completely bossed Moore tactically.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 14, 2018, 11:12:01 PM
Robson Kanu is not going to get any better at 30 years old and is limited.
I’d say Burke has potential and he needs to play to learn whether it’s here or on loan.
Are you happy then with the way Moore sets up the team and subs?  Monk would give his right arm for the quality WBA have.  He’s scrapping away with free transfers yet has completely bossed Moore tactically.


He didn't though he just employed a half pitch press having his players sit off the back three until they gave it away. Hardly mind blowing stuff.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on September 14, 2018, 11:15:10 PM
Burke is awful and who ever paid 15 mill ought to be ashamed! Darren Moore not intelligent? Dear oh dear
Awful, no skill, no speed, contributes nothing. Needs to be dropped. Just don't understand why DM keeps picking him. Bring back Rodriguez I say.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on September 14, 2018, 11:17:10 PM

He didn't though he just employed a half pitch press having his players sit off the back three until they gave it away. Hardly mind blowing stuff.
I wouldn't want Monk as manager but tonight he did a number on Moore and created better chances with far inferior players. He's arguably got the worst team in the league yet for large parts he killed our attacks and created more than us. Had they had Gayle instead of Jukiewitz or even finished their penalty, we'd have lost the game.

You're right though - he didn't do mind-blowing stuff which is the worry. He just sat back and let us invite our own problems upon ourselves.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggies_24 on September 14, 2018, 11:21:10 PM
My one wrangling thought having watched Brentford a few times this season is what would Dean Smith do with this group of players. We have been thoroughy outplayed in every away game bar 20 minutes against Norwich in the second & the last 10 minutes tonight & against Forest. The really worrying thing for me is that he seems to be very slow to react to things, Brunt should have been dropped weeks ago yet he’s still getting in the time, the 3 at the back look so susceptible with the ball at their feet yet he still persists with them playing out from the back. It’s clear to see for everyone out there it wasn’t working tonight why wait 70 minutes to change it up? Why not try and play a different formation?

As others have mentioned this is our one really big chance to get out of the league this season if we don’t then Gayle, Barnes, Rodriguez (although based on tonight it won’t be a huge loss), Phillips, Gibbs, Dawson will all be gone next year and we won’t be in the financial position to replace them.

We are looking at a very different picture had Johnstone not saved the 3 penalties he’s faced this season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on September 14, 2018, 11:23:32 PM
Awful, no skill, no speed, contributes nothing. Needs to be dropped. Just don't understand why DM keeps picking him. Bring back Rodriguez I say.
correct only one of the above, speed I know lots of people with speed doesn't make them good footballers though. Funny that 3 different   head coaches didn't don't play him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on September 14, 2018, 11:33:52 PM
correct only one of the above, speed I know lots of people with speed doesn't make them good footballers though. Funny that 3 different   head coaches didn't don't play him.
Exactly. On what then do you base your opinion?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on September 14, 2018, 11:41:52 PM
Exactly. On what then do you base your opinion?
What? I am basing my opinion on Burke ain't no good!? Apart from being fast??
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on September 14, 2018, 11:44:28 PM
Burke hasn't been given a chance at this club and if Darren persist's with his favourites then if I was Oliver I'd be looking for a move same goes for Field and Leko.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on September 14, 2018, 11:48:10 PM
Burke hasn't been given a chance at this club and if Darren persist's with his favourites then if I was Oliver I'd be looking for a move same goes for Field and Leko.
I beg to differ he as been given a chance but as never taken it as I said in a previous post Darren Moore is the third head coach who won't play him
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: leeiswba on September 15, 2018, 03:38:15 AM
I beg to differ he as been given a chance but as never taken it as I said in a previous post Darren Moore is the third head coach who won't play him

I agree mate, when I’ve seen him he’s technically not done it for me. There could be times where his pace scares teams and that could be an advantage but I don’t really trust his final ball or decision making to say he should be playing.

On to Moore I still think we are in a transitional period, we hated the way we played for a few years now and we wanted it changed. As far as I can see Moore is trying to do this, it won’t happen over night so I can’t see how people can slate him.

A few people questioning him were the same people saying we need to change; if come December we are still putting performances like tonight and not challenging then I agree ask questions but at the moment we are stil trying to change and play the way everyone wanted.

He’s got to have time to change and do what he wants to do and we have to back him

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: telford baggie on September 15, 2018, 05:59:41 AM
I beg to differ he as been given a chance but as never taken it as I said in a previous post Darren Moore is the third head coach who won't play him
darren moore only interested in playing his mates, the same players that didnt turn up last season and are doing the same again..he is out of his depth i hope we have dean smith on speed dial and take captain marvel with him, the most over rated footballer in the last 10yrs
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on September 15, 2018, 07:01:01 AM
I’m a supporter of Moore but I’d say the management team as a whole failed last night. We needed to change it and playing it out from the back really wasn’t working. We miss having a lump like Rondon up top as believe it or not long balls sometimes cause issues (see Blues v us last night!).

I think we needed to drop to a back 4 last night and take j rod off for a midfielder to go 4231.

I want to see them be a bit more pro active on the subs front. Burke can’t be rated or he’d have been on in a game like that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on September 15, 2018, 07:42:38 AM
Sure we didn't play well but,we still managed to get an away point.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on September 15, 2018, 08:44:43 AM
I cannot believe the tone of some of the comments on here. The vast bulk of fans wanted Moore and they had to know that he was relatively inexperienced and that means he is going to make mistakes well last night he made a mistake in keeping the team as it was, but really that is part of the process.

Maybe he is persisting too long with Brunt in midfield but he doesn't yet trust the alternatives or he knows Barry has no more legs than Brunt maybe he knows stuff I don't. However he has adjusted during the season and I am sure he will pick over last night and he will make changes.

What he cannot do is abandon the way we are playing he simply does not have the personnel to revert to lumping the ball up the pitch Pulis style and nor should he if this is what he believes in then he has to succeed or fail doing what he believes to be right.

You cannot take 90 minutes or even 7 games as definitive proof of anything.     
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on September 15, 2018, 09:18:53 AM
What he cannot do is abandon the way we are playing he simply does not have the personnel to revert to lumping the ball up the pitch Pulis style and nor should he if this is what he believes in then he has to succeed or fail doing what he believes to be right.

I don't want the team to lump the ball aimlessly up the pitch. Nor do I want to watch Hegazi, Dawson and Bartley passing it between themselves for a whole game deep in their own half. We had 58% possession last night and barely got near the Blues goal until the last 10 minutes. Hegazi seems to think he's the new Pirlo and we get points for every successful pass he exchanges with Dawson and Bartley. Why don't we try something novel like passing the ball to one of the five midfielders occasionally? Or if they are being pressed to death spin it into the channel for one of the front two? Just a bit of common sense would help. God knows what DM told them at half time yesterday as all the obvious first half errors were repeated second half.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on September 15, 2018, 09:33:52 AM
I beg to differ he as been given a chance but as never taken it as I said in a previous post Darren Moore is the third head coach who won't play him
wrong mate, Burke scored in league Cup and played well but following game was unused sub so how is that giving him a chance  ??? Clueless vilified him in game against spam and he having worst record as head coach. As for Pulisball signed by him and under used by coach who had lost the plot in the end
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on September 15, 2018, 09:34:35 AM
Big Dave is learning as he goes but there are some quite obvious flaws which need to be rectified.

At the moment Johnstone makes the defence nervous and vice versa, the players make the fans nervous and vice versa.

I want us to continue with the passing approach and it will take time to fully function but we have a problem when 2 of the 3 centre backs cant pass a ball well and based on last night, make that all 3 centre backs as Dawson was terrible.

It is a worry that players in the 2nd highest level of british football struggle to pass a ball forwards, the Stoke game suited us as they didnt really pressure our defence, they sat in their own half which meant when we had the ball at the back it didnt really matter if we made any mistakes. Last night Blues played a bit quicker and forced us into mistakes, i expect Bristol City to play a bit quicker than the Blues too, force us into even more mistakes, Bristol City also pass the ball well and have more quality than the Blues and i expect them to beat us quite comfortable which may in the long run be a good thing.

Our possession stats up but its passing it for the sake of it, teams are quite happy to sit deeper because we arent doing anything with the ball, you need at least one of your centre backs to be comfortable in carrying the ball forward, bringing it out of defence, that way it eventually forces the opposition to break ranks a bit, start closing down the centre back higher up the pitch which then leaves space, which then falls on our midfield and attacking players to exploit that space by moving and creating space elsewhere too.

Also when we are passing it, the most basic passing drill you are taught is playing in triangles, ie - everytime you have the ball you should have 2 options, one diagonally to your left, one diagonally to your right, we just seem to have one option which is sideways.

Ideally you need all 3 of your centre backs being able to do it, certainly 2, i think Tosin on paper would be the obvious one, after spending all your development years at Man City you would hope he is comfortable on the ball something which none of our current ones are, Bartley is about a typical championship centre half as you get - cumbersome, Hegazi is inconsistent, Dawson i find it hard to believe he can be as bad again as he was last night, but whether he is still playing catchup due to preseason but he is struggling, he was partly at fault for the Boro goal, nearly gifted Mansfield a goal and was terrible in general last night.

The midfield combo isnt working, i can understand Big Dave persisting with the same team as Stoke to give them another chance, but it was clear early doors it wasnt working, we scraped in drawing at half time and thats where changes should of been made, Jones is the more experienced one and maybe thats where Mooro needs his help. Livermore and Brunt were awful, the advantage Livermore has over Brunt is that he has played good a couple of times this season, Brunt hasnt even done that, so hopefully last night was the turning point.

Its not even just legs in there, at least Barry will keep the ball and hold his natural position, it isnt Brunts position and at least when dropped he can go back to competing for a place on the left where he is at his best and we can play a centre midfield in centre midfield, arguably the most important position on the pitch, sadly i dont think it will happen and i expect Brunt / Livermore to start Tuesday.

I can see why we have signed Hoolahan as another option for that attacking midfield role, Barnes came into the game the last 15 minutes but until then Blues swamped him and also he got fouled a lot which is probably a sign of things to come, Morrison hasnt made the bench last two games (not sure if thats because of injury or just not included) but a Morrison or Hoolahan would of been ideal last night, the two up top wasnt working, Blues dealt with it comfortable, however having two natural attacking midfielders would cause a bit of confusion and again create that elusive thing - space!

JRod was poor the last two games, you can never fault his effort, but again i would imagine he will start Tuesday but unless he starts to contribute to the game then his place should be in doubt, i think he has only scored one goal from outfield play this season which will no doubt bug him, he is a quality player but hasnt had a particularly good season yet overall.

The 4 away games have all been poor and i dont think its unfair to say that the approach we are going with isnt working, i dont like it anyway but its ok hanging in there and then going for it the last 15-20 minutes if your defence is rock solid and keeps you in it, however ours isnt, we always concede and on all our away games we have been lucky to not be out of sight by the 70th minute, eventually that will come unstuck.

Last night was the first time i saw Big Dave look agitated, he wasnt happy, i dont think he is a soft touch, i think he is a fair loyal person but i think he hopefully will see now that although we are on the right path, there are some tweaks and changes need to be made, including probably leaving out some of the bigger names.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: royhan on September 15, 2018, 09:42:02 AM
You've summed up the situation perfectly Albion 79. Well done
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on September 15, 2018, 10:02:03 AM
To be fair, I have to agree Albion79.

I want us to continue passing, as we've been crying out for a change of style for years, and it won't happen overnight. It won't realistically happen in one season, it will take a long time to shake off the Pulis "style". However, we desperately need better scouting, which is only partly down to DM. We need different starting XI's depending on who we're playing, which is mainly down to DM and we need more subs, which again, is mainly down to DM.

Moore obviously sees things in training that we're not seeing on the pitch. But last night, we just couldn't get the ball through to our front men. Distribution was the worst I've seen for a long while. These are all things that DM could be improving in training, but it seems as though the players had the past two weeks off.

We all have our own opinions of course, but for me, Johnstone just isn't an improvement on Foster. He seems shy and loves to stay on his line. Perhaps he's being told to do this, I don't know. But he isn't proactive and this makes me nervous. The entire defence makes me nervous. And considering Big Dave was a defender, I'd have thought we'd have been tight there and slack everywhere else. But I'd say defence is where we're most vulnerable. We have some quality in midfield and JRod and Gayle are quality strikers, we just need better play from the back.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: miggybaggy on September 15, 2018, 12:47:48 PM
I cannot believe the tone of some of the comments on here. The vast bulk of fans wanted Moore and they had to know that he was relatively inexperienced and that means he is going to make mistakes well last night he made a mistake in keeping the team as it was, but really that is part of the process.

Maybe he is persisting too long with Brunt in midfield but he doesn't yet trust the alternatives or he knows Barry has no more legs than Brunt maybe he knows stuff I don't. However he has adjusted during the season and I am sure he will pick over last night and he will make changes.

What he cannot do is abandon the way we are playing he simply does not have the personnel to revert to lumping the ball up the pitch Pulis style and nor should he if this is what he believes in then he has to succeed or fail doing what he believes to be right.

You cannot take 90 minutes or even 7 games as definitive proof of anything. 

Hmmm. I'm worried that we're slowly sleep-walking into mid-table oblivion and a non-entity in the eyes of the wider footballing public.

I was bored senseless (again) last night watching careful possession football with little pace and flair followed by a hopeful hoof. It wont bring promotion or excitement, but will probably gain enough points for safety. Is that what we really want to see?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 15, 2018, 02:27:42 PM

He didn't though he just employed a half pitch press having his players sit off the back three until they gave it away. Hardly mind blowing stuff.

Precisely right, and yet it was still enough to outclass Moore with a far worse side. Anyone who isn’t concerned by our away form at this stage of the season should look at it a bit more deeply, we haven’t played well in a single game as yet which means we will have to win nigh on every home game to have a chance of finishing where would should with this squad, top 2
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 15, 2018, 02:32:07 PM
Precisely right, and yet it was still enough to outclass Moore with a far worse side. Anyone who isn’t concerned by our away form at this stage of the season should look at it a bit more deeply, we haven’t played well in a single game as yet which means we will have to win nigh on every home game to have a chance of finishing where would should with this squad, top 2


Moore can't pass the ball for the back 3.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 15, 2018, 02:33:15 PM

Moore can't pass the ball for the back 3.

He can select the make up of it though and not play a back 3 or Bartley. Sadly he’s left himself with no choice now as he has failed to bring in a right back of any quality.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on September 15, 2018, 04:01:03 PM
We are invested in Darren Moore and have to stick with him while he makes his mistakes.

As long as we stay in touch while we are trying to perfect our new system, this is fine with me.

I have doubts over some of his team selections (Brunt).

Last night was an absolute shambolic performance. I couldnt believe what i was seeing. It was as though our 11 players consisted of 2 teams.

Moore needs to learn how to deal with teams that sit back and don't take the bait to press us. So many times we baited them and they wouldn't press. Its simple stuff really. Lots of teams will do it to us. We need to work out a way of playing to our strengths (ie NOT long ball) when the team are sitting back.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on September 15, 2018, 04:10:59 PM
wrong mate, Burke scored in league Cup and played well but following game was unused sub so how is that giving him a chance  ??? Clueless vilified him in game against spam and he having worst record as head coach. As for Pulisball signed by him and under used by coach who had lost the plot in the end
I know he scored in the league cup I was there but he didn't play well that's why he wasn't in the next game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on September 15, 2018, 05:19:37 PM
To be fair, I have to agree Albion79.

I want us to continue passing, as we've been crying out for a change of style for years, and it won't happen overnight. It won't realistically happen in one season, it will take a long time to shake off the Pulis "style". However, we desperately need better scouting, which is only partly down to DM. We need different starting XI's depending on who we're playing, which is mainly down to DM and we need more subs, which again, is mainly down to DM.

Moore obviously sees things in training that we're not seeing on the pitch. But last night, we just couldn't get the ball through to our front men. Distribution was the worst I've seen for a long while. These are all things that DM could be improving in training, but it seems as though the players had the past two weeks off.

We all have our own opinions of course, but for me, Johnstone just isn't an improvement on Foster. He seems shy and loves to stay on his line. Perhaps he's being told to do this, I don't know. But he isn't proactive and this makes me nervous. The entire defence makes me nervous. And considering Big Dave was a defender, I'd have thought we'd have been tight there and slack everywhere else. But I'd say defence is where we're most vulnerable. We have some quality in midfield and JRod and Gayle are quality strikers, we just need better play from the back.

Totally agree with you on Johnstone. The loss of Foster is huge. Not just for his shot-stopping, but for his organisation of the defence and ability to get an offensive move started quickly before the opposition are back in formation.

I disagree on it taking a long time to shake off the Pulis style. That's long gone in my opinion. We are no longer playing 4 centre backs, 2 defensive midfielders, lumping the ball up top and playing low possession football.

We are now trying to play a more attractive passing possession game - We're just currently rubbish at it.

Although it is still early days in Moore's tenure he needs to stop repeating the same mistakes over and over.

The owners have paid top price for this club and we are now worth a fraction of that price. The investors won't be happy. We either bounce back to the premiership this season or I'd imagine there will be pressure to asset strip, including the parachute payments.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GrGr on September 15, 2018, 05:53:06 PM
Darren Moore needs to get a grip quickly. This team lacks a spine and a coherent defense. We look good at the attacking end but the imbalance in the team is palpable. If this continues we will look good in some games and shocking in others, exactly what we have seen on the pitch so far. This is not how to build a campaign for promotion. Promotion, a winning season, is built on consistent quality and a winning mentality. 

Now it is up to Darren to prove, quickly, he has what it takes to be a winning head coach and show that he can out think and out coach his opponents. Being too soft is as bad as being too rigid (TP, Megson). If DM is to survive he must show he has a winner instinct and do what is necessary to address the problems.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mig on September 15, 2018, 05:58:32 PM
I admire the way he wants us to play but Adarabioyo has to start if we are going to pass it from the back. Bit ridiculous that the kid was dropped for no reason other than that Dawson was back.

This for me is where Moore is falling down right now - team selection and substitutions. It really does seem like he has his favourites and will stick to them. A lot of the kids have played well in the cup and deserve game time in the league now - yes it's a step up, but we have to give them the chance to show they can do it or else we'll never bring anyone through.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on September 15, 2018, 07:30:43 PM
I think Dave and jonesy are on the right track,we are picking up points and getting a bit of luck for a change, it seems today's results leave us handily placed in 8 place,what's the problem?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on September 15, 2018, 07:38:46 PM
I think Dave and jonesy are on the right track,we are picking up points and getting a bit of luck for a change, it seems today's results leave us handily placed in 8 place,what's the problem?

Agree, as most fans with realistic asperations for this seasons would also go along with
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kie the baggie on September 15, 2018, 08:12:59 PM
Agree, as most fans with realistic asperations for this seasons would also go along with
Whats our realistic aspirations please tell me?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on September 15, 2018, 08:37:59 PM
Agree, as most fans with realistic asperations for this seasons would also go along with

There's utterly no excuse to not finish top 4 this season. You need a bit of luck, so 4th would be annoying, but not a "bad" season from DM. If we finish outside the top 6 DM needs replacing. There's just no excuse to not finish top 6 at the utterly outside edge least this season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 15, 2018, 10:13:46 PM
I think Dave and jonesy are on the right track,we are picking up points and getting a bit of luck for a change, it seems today's results leave us handily placed in 8 place,what's the problem?

Just because some results have gone away does not mean the glaring weaknesses in our side should be over looked..
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 15, 2018, 10:17:13 PM

Moore can't pass the ball for the back 3.

I agree with your sentiment - those players should take more responsibility for their own performances.

However, there is no doubt Moore is trying to use a style of football which does not suit the three centre backs we have.

More concerningly is that he has recruited Bartley and then tried to shoe-horn him into a footballing defender.

It's like watching Mowbray and Leon Barnett all over again.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VVVAlbion on September 15, 2018, 10:20:56 PM
I'm sorry but DM needs to stick with what he is doing and trying to change the footballing philosophy at the club. What he needs is the time and the players to do this and unfortunately, at the moment, he is struggling with both. We are reliant on the back three to be competent enough to pass to our own players and they're not showing that. Our midfield needs to get better control of games and our strikers need to make themselves more available. Whilst it isn't happening (yet) we still aren't losing touch with the top half of the table so we're doing something right.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 15, 2018, 10:50:46 PM
No.  He has to learn that we need to improve.
We need to defend, and then get our midfield to do their job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: jamesh_91 on September 15, 2018, 10:57:57 PM
I think the defending has improved drastically. The problem is we are giving the ball away in terrible areas and are often forced into  defensive situations that leave us stretched and exposed.

As has been mentioned above the problem is the ball retention and passing to another Albion team mate.

Please DM, just please play Gareth Barry from the start on Tuesday. The guy just oozes quality. Maybe he can't do it for 90 minutes at his age but let's get on the front foot and substitute him at the end of the game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on September 16, 2018, 03:04:29 PM
I think the defending has improved drastically.

Just choked on my lunch reading this. No clean sheet this season, lucky not to concede 3 or 4 on Friday. 3 penalties conceded in 7 games. The defending has been criminal this season and Friday was as bad as it has ever been. Thankfully Blues finishing was non-league standard.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: jamesh_91 on September 16, 2018, 03:14:27 PM
Just choked on my lunch reading this. No clean sheet this season, lucky not to concede 3 or 4 on Friday. 3 penalties conceded in 7 games. The defending has been criminal this season and Friday was as bad as it has ever been. Thankfully Blues finishing was non-league standard.

Nice of you to quote only part of my post and take it completely out of context to suit your point.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on September 16, 2018, 03:41:23 PM
Nice of you to quote only part of my post and take it completely out of context to suit your point.

For what it's worth I agree with you that Barry should be starting. But let's be realistic, our defending this season has been woeful.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on September 16, 2018, 04:22:15 PM
Whats our realistic aspirations please tell me?

http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=22013.100
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on September 17, 2018, 01:25:06 AM
Just read some of the comments on twitter after an article posted about Moore. You would think we were bottom with no points...Friday was rubbish but we still got a point. The results at the weekend showed what a weird and difficult league it is.
Norwich (who we beat) lost to Boro
Leeds late draw at Millwall
Derby lost at Rotherham
QPR who we beat 7-1 lost to Bolton who beat us :)

There will be ups and downs along the way, not even October yet. 7 games gone and 3 points off second.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on September 17, 2018, 01:59:03 AM
Just read some of the comments on twitter after an article posted about Moore. You would think we were bottom with no points...Friday was rubbish but we still got a point. The results at the weekend showed what a weird and difficult league it is.
Norwich (who we beat) lost to Boro
Leeds late draw at Millwall
Derby lost at Rotherham
QPR who we beat 7-1 lost to Bolton who beat us :)

There will be ups and downs along the way, not even October yet. 7 games gone and 3 points off second.


QPR beat Bolton.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: we8seals on September 17, 2018, 07:15:46 AM
Nice of you to quote only part of my post and take it completely out of context to suit your point.

how much context is required for a statement saying our defending has improved dramatically?? I see no signs of our defending improving at all. I had hoped the reintroduction of Dawson would have made a significant difference by adding some organisational to the headless chicken party that Bartley and Hegazzi have every match day - thus far sadly no such luck. that added to using players at wing back who are simply not wing backs (Philips) - or out of depth (townsend) is a major cause for concern. As the fact that there is nothing in the squad that will enable us to change things much
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Chipperfan on September 17, 2018, 01:23:46 PM
I just hope that Darren and Graeme read this board. That way they can pick up
tips and insights they otherwise would likely overlook or fail to recognise.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on September 17, 2018, 01:55:45 PM
how much context is required for a statement saying our defending has improved dramatically?? I see no signs of our defending improving at all. I had hoped the reintroduction of Dawson would have made a significant difference by adding some organisational to the headless chicken party that Bartley and Hegazzi have every match day - thus far sadly no such luck. that added to using players at wing back who are simply not wing backs (Philips) - or out of depth (townsend) is a major cause for concern. As the fact that there is nothing in the squad that will enable us to change things much

Wouldn't agree with this. Phillips has looked one of our most dangerous players this season and looks high in confidence, is scoring and setting up goals.

Townsend looked solid in the games he played before Friday (including come on against Norwich) and a lot of us would have been happy to see him start over Gibbs. He looked shaky at times on Friday but I wouldn't say he is out of his depth at all. Give the kid a chance.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 17, 2018, 02:28:27 PM
Phillips isn't a wing back, though, is the point I am assuming he was trying to make. Phillips on the right of a 3 man attack would be absolutely lethal with the form he is in, he should not have to be concerned with defending, let him take the game to the opposition.

Townsend is a poor wing back, he is clearly a left back who is playing out of position whenever Gibbs is unable to play.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on September 17, 2018, 02:31:41 PM
how much context is required for a statement saying our defending has improved dramatically?? I see no signs of our defending improving at all. I had hoped the reintroduction of Dawson would have made a significant difference by adding some organisational to the headless chicken party that Bartley and Hegazzi have every match day - thus far sadly no such luck. that added to using players at wing back who are simply not wing backs (Philips) - or out of depth (townsend) is a major cause for concern. As the fact that there is nothing in the squad that will enable us to change things much

I am not sure what Darren sees in Barkley, he looks like an accident waiting to happen to me. There can be no excuse for that handball, and he gets too physical at set pieces with the opposition which is going to cost us soon. My concern is that his 'clumsiness' is being transmitted to Hegazi and Dawson.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on September 17, 2018, 05:08:54 PM

QPR beat Bolton.

Sorry that’s what I meant...:)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on September 17, 2018, 05:47:20 PM
Personally, I think we should always play 4 at the back. Three CDs doesn't suit us, especially ones who cannot distribute well. We often look too stretched at the back. I hope that tomorrow's game will show an improvement in defence, seeing how our head coach was a defender...

Also, Field needs to be played in MF, and I don't see why Brunt and Gibbs couldn't do a job on the left. Brunt is no good in MF, so overlapping with Gibbs would work in my opinion. The only concern is his legs.

With regards our aim for the season, promotion should be number one for us all. I'm not of the opinion that we should settle for a mid-table finish. I want us to be financially stable so we can always compete. I'd hate for us to get into trouble and have embargos and points deductions due to finance. The only place you get the money is in the PL. Look at some of the teams around us who have narrowly avoided punishments. Fair enough, some of them may be about the owner, but playing in the second and third tier of football won't help them.

I just checked the Championship table, and 18 of the 24 teams who compete in it have at some point played in the PL. I'd hate for us to turn into a Bolton, Blues, Blackburn etc.

Moore needs to wise-up with regards use of subs and consider using different players. It pains me to say it, but with the amount of games we have coming up, it only takes a couple of losses and we've lost touch with the top. If by Christmas we're in the play offs then I think Moore will be ok, but if we're not then fans could start turning and pressure could mount for him to be replaced.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on September 18, 2018, 11:11:57 AM
Personally, I think we should always play 4 at the back. Three CDs doesn't suit us, especially ones who cannot distribute well. We often look too stretched at the back. I hope that tomorrow's game will show an improvement in defence, seeing how our head coach was a defender...

Also, Field needs to be played in MF, and I don't see why Brunt and Gibbs couldn't do a job on the left. Brunt is no good in MF, so overlapping with Gibbs would work in my opinion. The only concern is his legs.

With regards our aim for the season, promotion should be number one for us all. I'm not of the opinion that we should settle for a mid-table finish. I want us to be financially stable so we can always compete. I'd hate for us to get into trouble and have embargos and points deductions due to finance. The only place you get the money is in the PL. Look at some of the teams around us who have narrowly avoided punishments. Fair enough, some of them may be about the owner, but playing in the second and third tier of football won't help them.

I just checked the Championship table, and 18 of the 24 teams who compete in it have at some point played in the PL. I'd hate for us to turn into a Bolton, Blues, Blackburn etc.

Moore needs to wise-up with regards use of subs and consider using different players. It pains me to say it, but with the amount of games we have coming up, it only takes a couple of losses and we've lost touch with the top. If by Christmas we're in the play offs then I think Moore will be ok, but if we're not then fans could start turning and pressure could mount for him to be replaced.

Of course I agree that promotion is our main aim, currently the same for nearly every club in the division and as long as we are in the mix I think I'm going to enjoy this rollercoaster ride of a season.  In regards to money; I also agree that the only place you get the money is in the PL but unfortunately most of it ends up in the pocket of players and agents.  Don't forget that last year was the first time we have had to use our overdraft option.   If we don't go up I am hoping that we can use the parachute money more sensibly in this division, to keep us towards the top of the pack and build a squad capable of playing good football and challenging again next year.  Of course, I'm not overly confident in our ability to do that after our summer business......the rumoured bids around Dack and Tevernier were positive signs of ambition, but neither came off and that may be an issue again in Jan.  There can be no doubt that to play the way Darren Moore wants we do need additional quality to come into the club, players who are adept at passing the ball and playing out under pressure. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on September 18, 2018, 09:59:24 PM
3rd in the league

Let's replace the manage aye
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on September 18, 2018, 10:08:12 PM
3rd in the league

Let's replace the manage aye
Once again, we won today in spite of his tactics and in-game management, not because of it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tommcneill on September 18, 2018, 10:12:00 PM
Once again, we won today in spite of his tactics and in-game management, not because of it.

We won in-spite of his tactics??

We won playing his tactics....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on September 18, 2018, 10:12:49 PM
Once again, we won today in spite of his tactics and in-game management, not because of it.

Ok so when we lose it’s not his fault either then...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tommcneill on September 18, 2018, 10:13:30 PM
Ok so when we lose it’s not his fault either then...

exactly it works both ways
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on September 18, 2018, 10:18:46 PM
I like what he's trying he just needs to find the balance it's Abit total football tony mowbray at the moment- needing 3 to win a game won't work in the long run.

At least we saw field today and he finally broke up brunt and Livermore (whether it worked or not is a separate issue)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on September 18, 2018, 10:20:56 PM
exactly it works both ways

Yep that argument has never made sense to me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on September 18, 2018, 10:32:58 PM
A wins a win,well done coaches players and fans,3 more points top six,what's the problem,its winning as count's, some people expect perfection each game,which team in the world ever achieves it all the time.
Put it this way our defence can only get better,then the others had better watch out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on September 18, 2018, 10:35:54 PM
exactly it works both ways
So if we win it's in spite of his tactics and if we lose it's not his fault. No real point having a head coach then lol.

Everyone wanted attacking football, we have it

Everyone wanted watching football to be fun and entertaining again, it is

Everyone wanted us to be winning games and up near the top of the table, we are

Of course we can improve, every team can, but we really are a work in progress. DM showed tonight by dropping Brunt that he is strong enough to make changes when he feels he needs to, and sends a message that no-one can take for granted their selection.

As for the defence, new system, new goalie, new personnel (some), they need to work as a unit, and this will improve as they spend more time playing together. Also, we have been used to seeing a well drilled defence under Pulis, but now we are much more attacking it is inevitable that the defence will be exposed more often. It gives us the jitters because we can see than Man City would put 10 past us, but this is the Championship and the quality isn't as good, so will will get away with it more often.

Well happy tonight
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on September 18, 2018, 10:43:00 PM
Main positive of tonight was bringing in Barry for Brunt, showing Moore can change/see problems and that experienced players aren't too big to be benched.

I thought his subs were a bit smarter than usual too and helped to slow the game down and kill it. Hopefully he is learning as if he can sort our defence out then we will do well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on September 18, 2018, 11:03:58 PM
3rd in the league

Let's replace the manage aye

Can we cut the petty stuff please, win, lose or draw its boring and not wanted on here.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on September 18, 2018, 11:40:49 PM
Thought his team selection was better today, though it still didn't look right on the pitch. I'll also praise him for the Hoolahan/Rodriguez sub as I believe that was his first substitution that has actually had an effect on a game, closed the spaces they were exploiting in the midfield and Hoolahan is experienced and tidy enough to help close the game out.

The defence looks shambolic though, and we're yet to properly outplay a team this season - even the QPR game wasn't a 7-1 performance. There just doesn't seem to be any indication that we can control the midfield regardless of who we are playing against, and the centre backs are all looking like bomb scares whenever we get attacked.

Going to be another week of reserving judgment for me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on September 18, 2018, 11:45:30 PM
Can we cut the petty stuff please, win, lose or draw its boring and not wanted on here.

Fair point and valid but is asking for a new managers head after 5 games petty?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on September 18, 2018, 11:58:17 PM
Happy days loved the attacking threat we had and top three so clinical in front of goal, had palpitations with the three at the back with Hegazi been the worst of a bad lot and what was he doing for their second goal :o. He went straight down tunnel after match and didn't shake anyone's hand.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on September 19, 2018, 12:06:08 AM
Fair point and valid but is asking for a new managers head after 5 games petty?

To me yes as it knee jerk, we just don't want the toing and froing when we win a game and then lose a game of one camp battling the other, we'd prefer sensible stuff not petty squabbles especially posts containing nothing worth reading.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on September 19, 2018, 12:42:16 AM
To me yes as it knee jerk, we just don't want the toing and froing when we win a game and then lose a game of one camp battling the other, we'd prefer sensible stuff not petty squabbles especially posts containing nothing worth reading.
Agreed :) And thanks for your hard work keeping us on track ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 19, 2018, 09:47:07 AM
Main positive of tonight was bringing in Barry for Brunt, showing Moore can change/see problems and that experienced players aren't too big to be benched.

I thought his subs were a bit smarter than usual too and helped to slow the game down and kill it. Hopefully he is learning as if he can sort our defence out then we will do well.

It helps when you have a 36 year old class act in Gareth Barry.

The real question is would Brunt have been dropped for a lesser presence such as Field? No, in my view.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on September 19, 2018, 09:52:40 AM
Obviously we look great going forward but absolutely awful in defence.

My issue with Moore over this is the two things aren't really *that* connected.  If we tightened things up at the back I don't see how it would have much of an affect on our attacking play.

It's not a case of the defence is in trouble because we are playing so attacking minded - it's a case the defence is in trouble because they're not capable of doing the basics.

That can (and should) get fixed.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 19, 2018, 10:03:33 AM
Obviously we look great going forward but absolutely awful in defence.

My issue with Moore over this is the two things aren't really *that* connected.  If we tightened things up at the back I don't see how it would have much of an affect on our attacking play.

It's not a case of the defence is in trouble because we are playing so attacking minded - it's a case the defence is in trouble because they're not capable of doing the basics.

That can (and should) get fixed.

The defence is in trouble, for me, because of what Darren is asking them to do. You have three out and out defenders at the back and he is asking them to play some form of possession based, passing game from the back which none of them are comfortable with and as a result of there being three of them there, we are losing out on an extra body to keep possession further up the pitch.

Sadly, thanks to the fact that we failed to sign a right back of any note in the window, presumably because a) Darren/Jones wanted to play 3 at the back b) we are too tight to invest in one, we are now stuck with a defensive system that does not work.

Darren is extremely lucky that we have an attacking line up of Barnes, Phillips, Gayle and Rodriguez, all of whom would walk into every team in this league, as they will bail him out of a lot of trouble this season. Away from home, however, when they will see less of the ball, we are already seeing how tactically the onus is on Moore and he is failing to deliver thus far.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on September 19, 2018, 10:29:33 AM
The defence is in trouble, for me, because of what Darren is asking them to do. You have three out and out defenders at the back and he is asking them to play some form of possession based, passing game from the back which none of them are comfortable with and as a result of there being three of them there, we are losing out on an extra body to keep possession further up the pitch.

Sadly, thanks to the fact that we failed to sign a right back of any note in the window, presumably because a) Darren/Jones wanted to play 3 at the back b) we are too tight to invest in one, we are now stuck with a defensive system that does not work.

Darren is extremely lucky that we have an attacking line up of Barnes, Phillips, Gayle and Rodriguez, all of whom would walk into every team in this league, as they will bail him out of a lot of trouble this season. Away from home, however, when they will see less of the ball, we are already seeing how tactically the onus is on Moore and he is failing to deliver thus far.

The bit that puzzles me the most is if DM knew this was the style of play he wanted to play going forward, then signing Bartley seems bizarre as he seems the most uncomfortable out the 3 on the ball.

I said it on another post, we only seem to be in trouble when one of the back 3 play a sloppy pass out and leave us open.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on September 19, 2018, 11:05:13 AM
I think its refreshing that experienced players are being given a run in the side to show they can still cut it, but, when they fail CONSISTENTLY the manager is big enough to make changes.
Sometimes the changes will work sometimes they will not.

Darren isn't a tinkerman and he is also showing he is not so dogmatic as to be damaging, its a hard line to tread but it looks (to me) that DM is getting it about right. (so far).

yes away performances and defence still need a fair bit of work, but as someone said above if can get it all right we will be a cut above anyone else in this league. Its very rare for everything to come right though and unheard of in B71  ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on September 19, 2018, 11:31:10 AM
The bit that puzzles me the most is if DM knew this was the style of play he wanted to play going forward, then signing Bartley seems bizarre as he seems the most uncomfortable out the 3 on the ball.

I said it on another post, we only seem to be in trouble when one of the back 3 play a sloppy pass out and leave us open.

Or any crosses into the box, we tend to not deal with them that well although we did better last night.  The commentators remarked on how many headers Dawson just wasn't winning.  We also tend to let the ball bounce more than we should.

As for the passing out.  I don't know if this link will work but I grabbed a still from 25 seconds into the highlights on Sky where we should have conceded after having easy control.

http://i64.tinypic.com/2cwx3pi.jpg
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2cwx3pi.jpg)

You can just see Dawson's shadow off to the left of the pitch.  Either Hegazi plays it forward or he plays a negative ball back to Dawson and invites more pressure.   Look where Bartley is!  He is MILES away and effectively out of the game.  At this point we are playing with 2 defenders. 

So Hegazi opts to chip the ball forward but his pass is all wrong.  It's not into feet, it's not over the head to run onto.  It gives the Albion player zero chance because his pass is so poor.  The Bristol player just heads the ball forward, Hegazi is the wrong side and too slow to react.  Bartley is too far away to get across, Bristol should have scored.

Even if the header forward was poorer, we were still suddenly outnumbered.

This is just one example when our setup is wrong, the quality of the pass is wrong and it puts us into heaps of trouble.  Look at the number of Bristol players forward, if Hegazi's ball is better then we do cut them out.  Play a poor pass though and we are struggling.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: altonbaggie on September 19, 2018, 11:49:27 AM
That picture sums the bigger question up for me.  If Moore or Jones look at that image then you suspect that like us they could point out who isn't in the right position for the way we are looking to play.  The argument then would be "with more training sessions we can make the system work as the players learn and adapt".  Bartley would be a bit closer, Livermore would have found space, Barry would be in the picture/available as would Dawson, and even Phillips' shadow would be showing. 

But, let's say all of the players have learnt the system well.  Then would Hegazi pick the right pass and be able to execute it - or the other 2.  It's hard to know for definite...because what we've seen happen alot so far is it all goes a bit slow and they get out of position and then the defender has a visible panic and plays a bad pass.   Would they have played a better one if the system was being implemented better?

One thing though - we are scoring some great goals at least in part because we play out from the back.  If we win 4-2 each week with horrific defending then I'd still renew next year [in the interests of evenness, I was at Birmingham and I'm not sure I could watch that!].  If we had had more 1-0 / 0-0 matches with great defending then I wouldn't have renewed.  Like others, I can see problems but I'd hope people are enjoying going to the game more and surely the manager gets some credit for that?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on September 19, 2018, 11:52:46 AM
Once again, we won today in spite of his tactics and in-game management, not because of it.

Possibly one of the most ridiculous comments I’ve ever seen on this forum.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on September 19, 2018, 11:53:56 AM
I agree alton.  I think if we are set up this way then the defender playing the pass has to do better.  It's sort of along the lines of "not there ffs!".  We are asking Hegazi to play too good a pass in those situations. 

Regards your last paragraph, as I said in another thread though, it's great when we're winning.  But if we start slipping up more and we end up losing 2-1, 3-1, it'll be a very different story.  Cross that bridge when we get to it I guess.

Another issue is long term.  Gayle and Barnes are not our players and are absolutely crucial to us at the moment.  Dawson made it clear he wants to leave, as did J-Rod and we nearly lost Gibbs.  Barry\Hoolahan won't be around much longer. 

What's Moore's plan for next year?  Go for promotion and see if we can sign Gayle\Barnes and improve the defence?  What if we don't go up?  Less money, lose even more players?  This season is so crucial for us that we can't really afford to be shipping cheap goals.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on September 19, 2018, 11:57:57 AM
Possibly one of the most ridiculous comments I’ve ever seen on this forum.

That's quite a sweeping statement given some of the competition  ;D  ;) .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on September 19, 2018, 12:02:35 PM
Or any crosses into the box, we tend to not deal with them that well although we did better last night.  The commentators remarked on how many headers Dawson just wasn't winning.  We also tend to let the ball bounce more than we should.

As for the passing out.  I don't know if this link will work but I grabbed a still from 25 seconds into the highlights on Sky where we should have conceded after having easy control.

http://i64.tinypic.com/2cwx3pi.jpg
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2cwx3pi.jpg)




You can just see Dawson's shadow off to the left of the pitch.  Either Hegazi plays it forward or he plays a negative ball back to Dawson and invites more pressure.   Look where Bartley is!  He is MILES away and effectively out of the game.  At this point we are playing with 2 defenders. 

So Hegazi opts to chip the ball forward but his pass is all wrong.  It's not into feet, it's not over the head to run onto.  It gives the Albion player zero chance because his pass is so poor.  The Bristol player just heads the ball forward, Hegazi is the wrong side and too slow to react.  Bartley is too far away to get across, Bristol should have scored.

Even if the header forward was poorer, we were still suddenly outnumbered.

This is just one example when our setup is wrong, the quality of the pass is wrong and it puts us into heaps of trouble.  Look at the number of Bristol players forward, if Hegazi's ball is better then we do cut them out.  Play a poor pass though and we are struggling.



This is where decision making is key though. Hegazi makes the wrong pass here because as you say his pass has to be pretty much perfect. The decision he should've made is the pass to Dawson who then should in turn use the triangle and play a first time ball into Livermore (I think it is in shot).

Even Man City had problems adjusting to exaggerated playing out from the back so it's inevitable that we will.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: altonbaggie on September 19, 2018, 12:08:05 PM
Yup - agree we want that defending to improve.  Although Mowbray got us promoted without it!  I guess 8 games in, it's ok for me on the "are we going to get promoted" measure.  If we can improve the defending by 20% then we've got a great chance.  And it is wonderful on the "is this exciting and enjoyable" measure. 
As for next season - bit too far away for now.  Honestly, I wish we could just get promoted from the championship each year.  I haven't enjoyed a premiership season for so long that I don't really look forward to playing in it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on September 19, 2018, 12:31:49 PM
Yup - agree we want that defending to improve.  Although Mowbray got us promoted without it!  I guess 8 games in, it's ok for me on the "are we going to get promoted" measure.  If we can improve the defending by 20% then we've got a great chance.  And it is wonderful on the "is this exciting and enjoyable" measure. 
As for next season - bit too far away for now.  Honestly, I wish we could just get promoted from the championship each year. I haven't enjoyed a premiership season for so long that I don't really look forward to playing in it.

If we do get promoted we are in deep do do.
We have first team players at the moment that are on loan, so we will I expect lose Barnes and Gayle.
Dawson will want away again, may be JRod also.
Barry will retire.
Brunt and Morrison wouldn't cut another Prem season IMO.
HRK no use to man nor beast in the Prem.
Adarayiobo will go back to Man C
Bartley.......well enough said
Mears/Hoorihan would retire I imagine
The amount of players we would need to recruit for a new season in the Prem doesn't bear thinking about, and our recent track record in transfer windows doesn't instill confidence.
I'm just going to enjoy this season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on September 19, 2018, 12:35:10 PM
The comment that gets me the most is 'Darren's lucky he has our front 4'

The front 4 which includes 2 players that he has brought in. Anyone would think he's been left with that miraculously.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: altonbaggie on September 19, 2018, 12:43:05 PM
As you say tuamigos ... "let's just enjoy it". Bringing the topic back to Darren Moore a bit ... if we have got promoted this way then 1) his stock is going to be very high and 2) it will be interesting to see who we can attract.

That's all miles away though.

For now, I'm going to look forward to getting to the Hawthorns again on Saturday and my son will watch the whole game next to me rather than distracted with boredom.  I'll be nervous of the defence, excited by the attack, hopeful that Field gets a go, and grateful that our manager is someone who is playing in a way I want to watch football be played from an attacking sense and, while not essential, it is at least pleasant to actually like the manager as a person.  Before the season started, 3rd in the table with most goals scored would have been an acceptable outcome for me after 8 games.  I'm proud to be a baggie again and Moore gets some credit from me for that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on September 19, 2018, 01:02:18 PM
That's quite a sweeping statement given some of the competition  ;D  ;) .

Tell me about it. Couldn’t believe what I was reading. Especially when maccbaggie is the first to jump on the back of Moore when we lose!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: chippyclarke on September 19, 2018, 01:59:15 PM
If we do get promoted we are in deep do do.
We have first team players at the moment that are on loan, so we will I expect lose Barnes and Gayle.
Dawson will want away again, may be JRod also.
Barry will retire.
Brunt and Morrison wouldn't cut another Prem season IMO.
HRK no use to man nor beast in the Prem.
Adarayiobo will go back to Man C
Bartley.......well enough said
Mears/Hoorihan would retire I imagine
The amount of players we would need to recruit for a new season in the Prem doesn't bear thinking about, and our recent track record in transfer windows doesn't instill confidence.
I'm just going to enjoy this season.
Why if we get promoted would Dawson and probably Rodrigues want to leave? They would be playing Premiership football that they want, their pay would be greatly enhanced AND they play  an exciting style of football.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on September 19, 2018, 02:29:05 PM
Why if we get promoted would Dawson and probably Rodrigues want to leave? They would be playing Premiership football that they want, their pay would be greatly enhanced AND they play  an exciting style of football.
Serious question, I get that we got relegated thus players wages flexed down, if we get promoted do wages flex up?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on September 19, 2018, 03:04:09 PM
If we do get promoted we are in deep do do.
We have first team players at the moment that are on loan, so we will I expect lose Barnes and Gayle.
Dawson will want away again, may be JRod also.
Barry will retire.
Brunt and Morrison wouldn't cut another Prem season IMO.
HRK no use to man nor beast in the Prem.
Adarayiobo will go back to Man C
Bartley.......well enough said
Mears/Hoorihan would retire I imagine
The amount of players we would need to recruit for a new season in the Prem doesn't bear thinking about, and our recent track record in transfer windows doesn't instill confidence.
I'm just going to enjoy this season.

I would say we are in more of a 'do-do' if we don't go up. The above list will probably still happen, add into that Phillips will be sought after and I imagine Gibbs etc will want out.

I think if we were to go up we would be in a better position, we could buy Gayle if we wanted him, Tosin could be taken on loan again, may be able to convince Leicester to loan us Barnes for another year for prem experience etc etc.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on September 19, 2018, 03:13:51 PM
Yeah, if we don't go up this season then I doubt we will take the current squad, improve a few positions and come back stronger next season.  I think it'll be a fire sale and an even bigger rebuild.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on September 19, 2018, 03:20:34 PM
This has to be Barry, Brunt and Mozzas last season with us regardless of division surely.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on September 19, 2018, 05:01:49 PM
I personally think that if 90% of fans had this league position/performances offered to them at the start of the season, they'd have bitten the hand off. Considering this is Big Dave's first job in management, i think he's doing a fantastic job. He definitely needs to be backed even if we have a bad run, he's obviously got what it takes to lift spirits during a dip in form and keep players motivated.

Defence is a worry but as long as it's eventually fixed and we're scoring more goals than the opposition, it's not that much of a problem.
Add to that, we are the top scorers in the league and we are a million miles from the Pulis ultra defensive style and that will do for me.
Yes we look rubbish at the back (at times) but we are still 3rd and what we seem to forget is that most defences in this league are a bit rubbish. Don't forget, Bristol City are being lauded by many for their performance last night, yet conceded twice as many as we did. Go figure.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: alwaysbilly on September 19, 2018, 05:02:03 PM
Dear Darren
Keep clean sheets with this team and you win the league.
Please sort it.
Thanks
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on September 19, 2018, 05:28:02 PM
Dear Darren
Keep clean sheets with this team and you win the league.
Please sort it.
Thanks

but not at the cost of compromising the forward unit and entertainment !
not so easy now is it?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 19, 2018, 05:32:02 PM
but not at the cost of compromising the forward unit and entertainment !
not so easy now is it?
Posibly getting our midfield organised would be a start?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on September 19, 2018, 05:45:05 PM
Blimey, According to this site in the last week
The keepers well dodgy
The defence is a shambles
Midfield needs sorting - STILL
One striker is only good for pens
The subs are rubbish and mis-timed
The kid everyone wants to play did naff all

oh and the captain got dropped (not rested) much to one posters chagrin

How in gods name are we third with most goals scored in the div ???
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggieboyfred on September 19, 2018, 06:07:22 PM
Irrespective of the result two points are glaringly obvious , the defence is woeful with premiership quality defenders seemingly unable to pick a pass and continually giving the ball away thus creating most of the problems in our third of the pitch secondly the wing back play in the system is not up to standard , fortunately the four main men  up  front are quite capable of creating and scoring goals so we need to sort the problem out without  diminishing our goal threat .
Big Dave as a former defender hopefully will get it sorted, and as one of the clubs modern day heroes, he will be given the time to get it sorted , this is a wide open division and any team who can score the amount of goals we have already scored , but keep down the goals conceded column will get promoted , so far one out of two so keep it going Big Man you have the vast majority of fans on your side
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on September 19, 2018, 06:12:57 PM
This has to be Barry, Brunt and Mozzas last season with us regardless of division surely.

If we are going to play this system then yes. Brunt in a flat 4 or even as a third man in midfield or possibly as second choice left back- but at best squad player.
Morrison some how got another year and got injured again. I hope testimonial plans are well underway so they get the send off they deserve.

And Gareth Barry absolutely he's only got an hour in his legs and I'm not sure he can do that twice a week.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on September 19, 2018, 07:15:10 PM
but not at the cost of compromising the forward unit and entertainment !
not so easy now is it?

Yes, it is. We play the way we do but instead of miss hitting 20 yard passes we pass the ball to each other.  Just stuff players at this level should be capable of.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on September 20, 2018, 09:22:50 AM
Just out of interest and I'm not asking this to undermine anybones opinion but all of the posters whi are heing vocally critical of DM's tactics and management. Would you prefer Pulis back and his style which would certainly fix the weakness at the back?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 20, 2018, 09:25:22 AM
Just out of interest and I'm not asking this to undermine anybones opinion but all of the posters whi are heing vocally critical of DM's tactics and management. Would you prefer Pulis back and his style which would certainly fix the weakness at the back?

No.

I didn't want either in charge, but not since Roy Hodgson have we had a manager I actually wanted at the time we were appointing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on September 20, 2018, 09:48:30 AM
Don't want to see or hear Pulis at the Hawthorns ever again.
I think Dave and Jonesy are doing a very good job in what was a difficult time during the summer and they and the other coaches have steered us into 4th place.
Once they have sorted the defence out we will be pushing for promotion.
Incidentally,in the 14 games he's been in charge am I right in saying he's lost only 3 games?
And some people don't want Dave?
Who do they think could do better?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on September 20, 2018, 10:16:45 AM
Just out of interest and I'm not asking this to undermine anybones opinion but all of the posters whi are heing vocally critical of DM's tactics and management. Would you prefer Pulis back and his style which would certainly fix the weakness at the back?

I'd be happy to carry on the way we are if the defence didn't have a forward pass completion rate of about 25%.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on September 20, 2018, 11:19:38 AM
I don't concern myself with the percentages,its all about getting goals for and points,let's keep on accumulating points then hopefully during that time we can solve our back 3.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on September 20, 2018, 01:54:50 PM
Our defence seems to the only main issue at present [midfield needs stabalising a little] but we are attacking and scoring goals, something we were all asking for last season. I am confident that Darren & Co will sort it all out in time - if we can see it then I am sure they can too. The league doesnt lie and we are where we want to be, so it can't be all bad.

What does amuse me are the few who are already calling for his head. I read a comment recently after the 3rd or 4th game that simply said 'Thank you and goodnight'.....from someone who confirmed that they voted for Darren in the forum poll!

What were you expecting??????
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on September 20, 2018, 02:00:29 PM
Our defence seems to the only main issue at present [midfield needs stabalising a little] but we are attacking and scoring goals, something we were all asking for last season. I am confident that Darren & Co will sort it all out in time - if we can see it then I am sure they can too. The league doesnt lie and we are where we want to be, so it can't be all bad.

[what does amuse me are the few who are already calling for his head][/b]. I read a comment recently after the 3rd or 4th game that simply said 'Thank you and goodnight'.....from someone who confirmed that they voted for Darren in the forum poll!

What were you expecting??????


Stupid people. I wouldn't have chosen Darren Moore initially but to be calling for his head is just stupidity.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gurnbaggy on September 20, 2018, 02:15:19 PM
I don`t post on here very often as I usually just enjoy reading what others have to say, however I feel DM is in need of some support.
  Tony Pulis was selected by the board to come and do a job of keeping us from relegation and to try and establish us in the premiership. he actually succeded in this (initially), it wasn`t pretty but it was effective. He was given financial support and asked to improve the squad, again he was initially succesful in this. The problem started when the board then changed his remit and wanted him to establish us as a top 6/7 team. The reality was he didn`t have the tools in his locker for that task, the board realised this to late and employed Pardew as a knee jerk reaction. Pardew was totally the wrong call and when the reality of this hit home DM was given an unenviable task of picking up the pieces. All of this has been posted on this forum in varying degrees of passion for the last 3 years.     Darren Moore has proved to all that he was aware of our failings and has started a rebuilding process, this is not going to happen overnight and will take a couple of transfer windows to get in the players he feels will do the job in his style. He has shown that he wants to play fast, atractive, free flowing football, it`s what all of us on here have been crying out for. The current crop of players are having trouble at times to follow the game plan but we all make mistakes occasionally (even Man City) however they are showing they have faith in DM and his system and are trying to entertain and be succesful. We should be giving them all the support and encouragement we can to help them move us in the right direction.
COYB
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: leeiswba on September 20, 2018, 02:34:47 PM
3rd in the league and 20 goals scored, the people who are moaning about him were the ones who at the start of the season were saying the club were a shambles and we would finish mid table.

You would think they would be happy that we are above their expectations.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on September 20, 2018, 02:46:02 PM
The guy is still learning on the job. 4th place and scoring a lot of goals, but defensively a bit naive at times.
I expect some of the people on hear who moaned about TP being too negative(me included) are moaning that were letting too many silly goals in. Give the guy a chance we are only 8 games in
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: alwaysbilly on September 20, 2018, 09:35:55 PM
but not at the cost of compromising the forward unit and entertainment !
not so easy now is it?
I think it is easy yes - stop dallying around and overplaying.
Darren Moore is doing a great job and things look promising but i still think we will cop a wallop a some point, as well as hand out a few  :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on September 21, 2018, 07:35:14 AM
The guy is still learning on the job. 4th place and scoring a lot of goals, but defensively a bit naive at times.
I expect some of the people on hear who moaned about TP being too negative(me included) are moaning that were letting too many silly goals in. Give the guy a chance we are only 8 games in

He won't learn, just like Mowbray never learned. He suffers from FDS. (Frustrated Defender Syndrome) He's had enough of defending, seen it all through his playing career.
I tell you what though!
It's bleeding great to watch  8)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on September 21, 2018, 07:47:13 AM
He won't learn, just like Mowbray never learned. He suffers from FDS. (Frustrated Defender Syndrome) He's had enough of defending, seen it all through his playing career.
I tell you what though!
It's bleeding great to watch  8)

I was thinking on Tuesday this is like watching the Mowbray side in the Championship. That was fun this is fun, will the result be the same? Who knows.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: miggybaggy on September 21, 2018, 09:24:42 AM
He won't learn, just like Mowbray never learned. He suffers from FDS. (Frustrated Defender Syndrome) He's had enough of defending, seen it all through his playing career.
I tell you what though!
It's bleeding great to watch  8)

It is!(At home at least)! But only as long as we keep Barnes. I fervently hope our scouting team are briefed on a like-for-like replacement for when Barnes inevitably leaves us.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on September 21, 2018, 10:36:33 AM
He won't learn, just like Mowbray never learned. He suffers from FDS. (Frustrated Defender Syndrome) He's had enough of defending, seen it all through his playing career.
I tell you what though!
It's bleeding great to watch  8)
He played a different game in the Prem though, with great results I might add, so maybe he has more than 1 string to his bow.
It is great to watch though mate and i for one would take another nail-biting 4-2 on Saturday over an 8 men behind the ball 1-0.
Stuff the clean sheets!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on September 21, 2018, 11:39:49 AM
Everyone would rather take 4-2 over a 1-0 win.
The question is, would you take a 1-0 win over a 4-2 loss?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on September 21, 2018, 11:50:05 AM
Everyone would rather take 4-2 over a 1-0 win.
The question is, would you take a 1-0 win over a 4-2 loss?
Yes, as long as it only happened now and again, we played well and were a tad unlucky
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on September 21, 2018, 12:58:36 PM
Everyone would rather take 4-2 over a 1-0 win.
The question is, would you take a 1-0 win over a 4-2 loss?
I would rather risk the odd 4-2 defeat and play to win than play not to lose and win the odd 1-0.
If we were getting pummelled every week then no, but occasionally, yes it's worth the risk.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on September 21, 2018, 01:10:14 PM
I would rather risk the odd 4-2 defeat and play to win than play not to lose and win the odd 1-0.
If we were getting pummelled every week then no, but occasionally, yes it's worth the risk.


Definitely. Football, at least for the working man, is about entertainment as well as results. I do not EVER, and I mean EVER, want to see Pulisball at the Albion again even if we won the Premier League and I mean it.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on September 21, 2018, 01:43:05 PM

Definitely. Football, at least for the working man, is about entertainment as well as results. I do not EVER, and I mean EVER, want to see Pulisball at the Albion again even if we won the Premier League and I mean it.

 i loathe it when people do this, but,

What he said !
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on September 21, 2018, 01:54:23 PM


Looks like Darren can cut the Mustard. When we were in the prem he could put a team out to defend and grind out a 1-nill, in this division we can go out and score for fun. At the start of the season he said this league is all about wining games not grinding out bore draws and trying to nick a goal. Fun times ahead.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: barnestormer on September 21, 2018, 02:31:33 PM
Said it once on here,its hard to argue and critisise any manager with a win ratio of around 56% never mind a club ledgend of one who I was never in favour of getting the gig.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on September 21, 2018, 03:02:32 PM
What is Dave's unbeaten %?
Its much better than the win% eh
Also what's his loss %?
Let's have it all out in the open for all the non believers of his coaching abilities.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on September 21, 2018, 03:14:33 PM
What is Dave's unbeaten %?
Its much better than the win% eh
Also what's his loss %?
Let's have it all out in the open for all the non believers of his coaching abilities.
overall or just this year?

According to Transfermarkt,

This year :- 10 games
Unbeaten - 8 = 80% all comps
Win - 6 = 60% all comps
Loss - 2 = 20% all comps

Overall:- 16 games
Unbeaten -  13 = 81%
Win - 9 = 56%
Loss - 3 = 19%
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on September 21, 2018, 03:18:35 PM
Thank you Huntington.
Either way his % are fantastic.
Why so many moaners then?
Perfection is impossible.
Sit back and enjoy the ride,stop running down the road too far,if, sorry when we get back to the premiere league worry about it then eh?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 21, 2018, 03:24:12 PM
Roberto di Matteo took us up comfortably from this division...and he would have taken us straight back down again if we hadn't have acted to bring in Roy. We have the best team in the division on paper, I would expect Darren to have very good stats this season, for my money they should be better than they are given that we have only faced one side thus far (in M'boro) who are anywhere near our level of player.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on September 21, 2018, 03:35:35 PM
Roberto di Matteo took us up comfortably from this division...and he would have taken us straight back down again if we hadn't have acted to bring in Roy. We have the best team in the division on paper, I would expect Darren to have very good stats this season, for my money they should be better than they are given that we have only faced one side thus far (in M'boro) who are anywhere near our level of player.
Who, apart from Boro, do you consider anywhere near us Fritzl?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on September 21, 2018, 04:22:38 PM
What do you expect from a new coach after 16 games,explain please.
Undefeated? Lost one?
Top of the league?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 21, 2018, 04:39:31 PM
Who, apart from Boro, do you consider anywhere near us Fritzl?

Only the Villa, Stoke, though I do not rate Rowett in the slightest, and Bielsa's Leeds until December when they burn out.

Aside from those, I see no other side with a squad on our level.

Liverbaggie, top two and playing far better, particularly away from home where we have been truly dreadful thus far.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on September 21, 2018, 05:00:23 PM
Who will win the Grand National next year mate?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 21, 2018, 05:06:28 PM
Who will win the Grand National next year mate?

Fail to see how this addresses me dealing with what is fairly obvious, but there we go.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Critical Baggie on September 21, 2018, 05:53:17 PM
I think most fans would of taken where we are at considering how much of a disaster last season was. Wasn't long ago that avoiding another relegation was the priority for this season.

We scored 31 goals ALL of last season, we've scored 20 so far and it's not even end of September! It's not perfect and the defensive certainly needs work but most importantly it's actually enjoyable watching the Albion play again.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on September 21, 2018, 06:02:22 PM
Only the Villa, Stoke, though I do not rate Rowett in the slightest, and Bielsa's Leeds until December when they burn out.

Aside from those, I see no other side with a squad on our level.

Liverbaggie, top two and playing far better, particularly away from home where we have been truly dreadful thus far.
Didn't we beat those already?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 21, 2018, 06:44:22 PM
Didn't we beat those already?

...and?

I said squad on our level. As i also said, I do not rate Rowett in the slightest and would want him nowhere near our club.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on September 21, 2018, 08:36:22 PM
Hey fritzle,your a hard taskmaster,try a little realism with a pinch of optimism then you'll feel better.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 21, 2018, 08:55:02 PM
Hey fritzle,your a hard taskmaster,try a little realism with a pinch of optimism then you'll feel better.

I’m very optimistic, I think we’ll win the league at a canter, we have a superb team for this level, I believe I have predicted us to win nigh on every game this season so far.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on September 21, 2018, 09:17:28 PM
Except the ones we've lost!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mig on September 21, 2018, 10:23:53 PM
Only the Villa, Stoke, though I do not rate Rowett in the slightest, and Bielsa's Leeds until December when they burn out.

Aside from those, I see no other side with a squad on our level.

Liverbaggie, top two and playing far better, particularly away from home where we have been truly dreadful thus far.

I agree with this - away from home we have been poor and relatively lucky to escape defeat in at least a couple of games. I like what Moore is trying to do overall, but his execution is lacking in some areas.

We have a quality squad at this level, we shouldnt be getting outplayed as often as we are.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hunsletbaggie on September 22, 2018, 12:07:53 PM
I would rather risk the odd 4-2 defeat and play to win than play not to lose and win the odd 1-0.
If we were getting pummelled every week then no, but occasionally, yes it's worth the risk.
I agree but what I think Moore and Jones have been poor at is game management. Stoke 2 nil up cruising Norwich 3-1 up and 4-2 up,and Bristol 4-1 up all of these games became a lot nervier than they needed to be with the right subs on.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Chipperfan on September 22, 2018, 05:06:05 PM
Third in the table, one point off being equal top. They’ve clearly no idea have they?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scruffy Stan on September 22, 2018, 05:22:15 PM
Third in the table, one point off being equal top. They’ve clearly no idea have they?
Yes, they have some idea, possibly quite a lot. But that doesn't mean we can't point out where we think they're missing a trick.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wbawill on September 22, 2018, 05:29:07 PM
My only major criticism so far would be our substitutes - both the players picked to be on the bench and the ones picked to come on in the match. The combined age of the first two subs was 71! We have a talented bunch of kids coming through, they're being stifled by players like Hoolahan, Mears and Barry coming on ahead of them. Other than that, Moore and Jones are doing a pretty good job so far in my opinion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on September 22, 2018, 05:31:38 PM
Yes, they have some idea, possibly quite a lot. But that doesn't mean we can't point out where we think they're missing a trick.

Agreed.

It's the classic internet problem of people overstating. So far this season we've been brilliant going forward and a bit dodge at the back. Pointing that out is fine. I'd rather be us than Stoke for example.

I'm curious as to how we'll look after say 25 games are gone. Alot of pressure is on Gayle & Barnes, an injury to either and we're faced with HRK playing and that drop in standards to huge. I'm a bit disappointed Field & Burke aren't getting game time, but you have to trust the boss.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheBrom on September 22, 2018, 06:03:24 PM
Now sitting 3rd in the league and playing great football. Doing a very good job so far
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on September 22, 2018, 06:08:36 PM
I agree but what I think Moore and Jones have been poor at is game management. Stoke 2 nil up cruising Norwich 3-1 up and 4-2 up,and Bristol 4-1 up all of these games became a lot nervier than they needed to be with the right subs on.

Completely agree with you, which i guess means that Tosin coming on for Gayle and a switch to a back 4 to see the game out shows better game management.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 22, 2018, 06:10:46 PM
Completely agree with you, which i guess means that Tosin coming on for Gayle and a switch to a back 4 to see the game out shows better game management.


Praise for 4 centre backs? *head explodes*
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on September 22, 2018, 06:15:02 PM
Think he got it spot on today, sometimes he's been deserved of criticism but today was probably our best win of the season after QPR with regards to how professional it was.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on September 22, 2018, 06:24:35 PM
Gaining a bit more confidence in him based on how we are playing and the results we are getting. Still think he needs to work on blooding some of the younger players off the bench when we're comfortable in games.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on September 22, 2018, 06:35:04 PM
Agree that he got it spot on today.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheBrom on September 22, 2018, 06:41:23 PM
Think he got it spot on today, sometimes he's been deserved of criticism but today was probably our best win of the season after QPR with regards to how professional it was.

Not only today, last game was bang on too. I’m very happy so far.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on September 22, 2018, 11:10:15 PM

Praise for 4 centre backs? *head explodes*

Let's put it into context - at 2-0 with 2 mins + injury time left with Gibbs on the pitch making it a potential back 5. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 22, 2018, 11:12:27 PM
Let's put it into context - at 2-0 with 2 mins + injury time left with Gibbs on the pitch making it a potential back 5.


 ;D


But if we're using actual context it was a genuine back 6, with 4 centre backs, Gibbs at left back and Mears at right back. 3 in midfield and Rodriguez up front.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on September 22, 2018, 11:27:30 PM
While he needs to sort the away form and make our defending more consistent, Moore is doing a good job. Around this stage you start to know which teams are likely to be challenging for promotion and we are right in the mix, having been winning so many of our home games.

There are still issues at the club. Players like Burke and Field not getting much of a look in is dissapointing in the longer term, heavily relying on 2 loan players - one of whom is likely to be called back in January is another, while the desperate need to sort out our back office infrastructure ready for what will be 2 key transfer windows in next 12 months is worrying, but it is great to see Moore having the team play exciting football.

Well done to the boss.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on September 22, 2018, 11:50:41 PM
While he needs to sort the away form and make our defending more consistent, Moore is doing a good job. Around this stage you start to know which teams are likely to be challenging for promotion and we are right in the mix, having been winning so many of our home games.

There are still issues at the club. Players like Burke and Field not getting much of a look in is dissapointing in the longer term, heavily relying on 2 loan players - one of whom is likely to be called back in January is another, while the desperate need to sort out our back office infrastructure ready for what will be 2 key transfer windows in next 12 months is worrying, but it is great to see Moore having the team play exciting football.

Well done to the boss.

I would love to see Burke come good and genuinely thought this could be his season but that is now three managers that have decided he doesnt offer enough.  Field? Its a long, tough season....he'll get his chance if he's as good as we hope he is.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on September 23, 2018, 08:56:32 AM

 ;D


But if we're using actual context it was a genuine back 6, with 4 centre backs, Gibbs at left back and Mears at right back. 3 in midfield and Rodriguez up front.

I'm fine with that! In the context of course!

I'm just happy we didn't see HRK on for J-Rod in the last few minutes as the sort of "go-to" late change. It shows Moore is developing and bringing that defensive opinion in when it's needed.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on September 23, 2018, 09:15:58 AM

 ;D


But if we're using actual context it was a genuine back 6, with 4 centre backs, Gibbs at left back and Mears at right back. 3 in midfield and Rodriguez up front.

So Jacko that being the case at 2-0 up Darren showed a bit more tactical awareness in the game than he has in the past, good.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on September 23, 2018, 09:23:03 AM
I think the fact that we haven't kept a clean sheet all season was the only reason we ended up with a back six. I think everyone at the club were pretty desperate to get that monkey off their backs. Five mins to go (or whatever it was) I can just imagine Moore and Jones thinking "there is no way on this ******* planet  we are conceding today"  ;D.

It was noticeable yesterday particularly second half we spent much less time on the ball at the back and there was less "over-playing" in fact we put in some proper clearances yesterday. It will be interesting to see if this becomes a common feature. Are we going to compromise on our adopted philosophy or was this just a one off? We shall see.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mank baggie on September 23, 2018, 09:55:30 AM
Well I'm happy the way big Dave is shaping up, does anyone know if he supported the Albion before he played for us? I always thought he followed the massive team that won the European cup.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on September 23, 2018, 01:39:02 PM
Still a lot of work to do to improve the quality of the play. Our pass completion rate in the opposition half yesterday was barely above 50%. The fixtures are a lot tougher in October and November. We have good a good platform to build on. The run up to Xmas is going to be crucial. Question marks still over midfield and standard of the defending. Clinical play from Gayle has bailed the team and management out so far IMV. Preston next week, is a big opportunity to break into the top two and make a statement.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggieboy79 on September 23, 2018, 02:42:03 PM
Well I'm happy the way big Dave is shaping up, does anyone know if he supported the Albion before he played for us? I always thought he followed the massive team that won the European cup.

He grew up in Handsworth and I do remember reading somewhere that he was a vile supporter.  He has obviously seen the light over the years though and now knows which side his bread is buttered  :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 1954 on September 23, 2018, 03:00:25 PM
He grew up in Handsworth and I do remember reading somewhere that he was a vile supporter.  He has obviously seen the light over the years though and now knows which side his bread is buttered  :D
I went to school with a girl who lived next door to Darren when he was growing up. It was through that connection I heard he was a Vile fan.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mank baggie on September 23, 2018, 04:20:06 PM
Oh well we all a bit daft when young
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on September 25, 2018, 10:15:58 PM
Moore's subs once again proving quite ineffective.

In a game where we have struggled to cause them any problems up front, he changed a dm for a dm, a rwb for a rwb and a cb for a cb.

Unless he did it on purpose, which is disrespectful to those who paif money, that just showed how poor this side of his management is.

He seems to be a good motivator and he is trying to play attacking football which is great, but the tactical side of his management is really lacking.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 25, 2018, 10:22:15 PM
Moore's subs once again proving quite ineffective.

In a game where we have struggled to cause them any problems up front, he changed a dm for a dm, a rwb for a rwb and a cb for a cb.

Unless he did it on purpose, which is disrespectful to those who paif money, that just showed how poor this side of his management is.

He seems to be a good motivator and he is trying to play attacking football which is great, but the tactical side of his management is really lacking.


They weren't intended to be effective he was resting the players who may be needed Saturday.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on September 25, 2018, 10:27:16 PM

They weren't intended to be effective he was resting the players who may be needed Saturday.
resting player's is no excuse if he'd use more of squad in league games then everyone should be fresh and it's only September.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 25, 2018, 10:28:44 PM
resting player's is no excuse if he'd use more of squad in league games then everyone should be fresh and it's only September.


More of the squad clearly isn't good enough. That was shown tonight.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on September 25, 2018, 10:50:32 PM

They weren't intended to be effective he was resting the players who may be needed Saturday.

Burke and Leko won't be used this weekend, and probably won't be used more than once or twice until January, so we could have brought them on to inject pace in to the team. What he instead chose ti do made zero sense.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on September 25, 2018, 10:54:06 PM
Burke and Leko won't be used this weekend, and probably won't be used more than once or twice until January, so we could have brought them on to inject pace in to the team. What he instead chose ti do made zero sense.

Spot on. We we're crying out for some pace to run in behind Palace. What is the point of Burke and Leko have a contract with us if they can't get in the 16 tonight? Why is DM playing Field at the back? Head scratching decisions. The squad is big enough to rest the key players and to have go with some of the youth in the league cup. Filled the team with Barry, Wes & Morrison, all decent but all slow and ageing, ditto Brunt when he came on. Needed Burke / Leko to stretch the opposition. Got the balance wrong tonight DM. Might have lost anyway but at least we'd have had a go at Palace. Barely laid a glove on them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on September 25, 2018, 10:54:53 PM
Burke and Leko won't be used this weekend, and probably won't be used more than once or twice until January, so we could have brought them on to inject pace in to the team. What he instead chose ti do made zero sense.


This.

Palace's defenders could've brought deck chairs with them tonight. Zero threat.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on September 25, 2018, 11:16:39 PM
Burke and Leko won't be used this weekend, and probably won't be used more than once or twice until January, so we could have brought them on to inject pace in to the team. What he instead chose ti do made zero sense.

If I was either burke or leko sat watching the like of Robson Kanu , and Darren’s mate Mears I would be asking myself if there is any hope for me here and the truth is there isn’t .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on September 25, 2018, 11:50:16 PM
DM bottled it tonight. Poor tactics and useless subs. His interviews actually make me cringe at times.

Realistically, we should be aiming for promotion this season. If we fail to get it, I think some fans will start turning.

I appreciate we're a club in transition and he's come out saying he wants us to play exciting football, but aside from stuffing a toothless QPR, have we been exciting to watch? Not really. We've made hard work of the previous cup games, and we've struggled to make our possession count in games (as in, making key passes - not sitting with it at the back).

It's ok beating bottom teams, but we come up against a bit of class and we have struggled.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on September 25, 2018, 11:58:32 PM

They weren't intended to be effective he was resting the players who may be needed Saturday.
that's a bizzare excuse and one you can't really believe surely. to say the subs weren't intended to be effective! if the sole purpose was to rest the players needed Saturday why play them in the first place. he could have selected a midfield without Brunt or Barry .
he could have rested players and picked a team with more threat than he did.
he's the head coach and he's doing a decent job so it's his call, he's got a lot right but tonight I feel he got a lot wrong.
the league is our priority so not that fussed we've gone out just the manner we exited.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: A5HB on September 26, 2018, 12:16:46 AM

They weren't intended to be effective he was resting the players who may be needed Saturday.
Surprised more people haven’t clocked this to be honest, seemed pretty obvious that they were pre meditated changes that we were always going to make regardless. Taking off Hegazi and Mears as they will be needed Saturday (the latter assuming Phillips is out) and saving Barry a late run around as he’ll no doubt start one or two of our up coming league games.

It’s a bit of an usual thing to do and it’s clear that we needed another forward on to help us stretch them a bit if we were at all serious about making a comeback, but I don’t think we were all that fussed in reality. Think we saw this game as a free hit, a run out for back up players but mostly as a huge inconvenience.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on September 26, 2018, 07:11:10 AM
People cry for youth and wanted Harper in the side. He proved last night he isn't good enough for champ/prem yet 

Just because we have youth doesn't mean we have to play then nor are they good enough
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on September 26, 2018, 07:24:16 AM
People cry for youth and wanted Harper in the side. He proved last night he isn't good enough for champ/prem yet 

Just because we have youth doesn't mean we have to play then nor are they good enough

I was about to say just this.
Fans have been saying why haven't the likes of Harper, Field and Edwards been playing on Saturdays, the answer was there for all to see last night.
The training staff see them day in day out so they get the full picture.
The kids looked good against the likes of Luton and Mansfield but I think last night that the Championship is a step up that they are not ready to take.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: leeiswba on September 26, 2018, 08:21:37 AM
People cry for youth and wanted Harper in the side. He proved last night he isn't good enough for champ/prem yet 

Just because we have youth doesn't mean we have to play then nor are they good enough

Unbelievable mate isn't it  ???

Players played last night that everyone cries out to given chances, they had that last night and proved that they aren't good enough yet.

I have come to the conclusion that whatever happens people want to moan, I normally love the cups as over the last 8 years its the only chance of what I would call 'success'. Now we are actually playing for promotion and to achieve something I'm happy to give the league cup the boot for a year especially with the amount of matches we have in small space of time

Only thing is I wish they would have told us they were going to basically throw it before spent money on the ticket
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on September 26, 2018, 08:33:41 AM
People cry for youth and wanted Harper in the side. He proved last night he isn't good enough for champ/prem yet 

Just because we have youth doesn't mean we have to play then nor are they good enough

so the kids come in for 1 game and we dismiss them after 1 game, we wouldn't do that for senior players, any reasonable fan would accept that a player needs a run of games to show his worth (or not) why are our kids not extended the same "run" before being judged ?
It may well be they are not "good enough" but to judge on 1 performance is harsh in the extreme
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on September 26, 2018, 08:39:33 AM
Can we really judge players that much on last night though? They were playing in a completely changed side, with a very disjointed set up, that provided no chance of challenging  on the break due to the lack of pace in the front 3 (Hoolahan and Morrison tried but it isn't their natural game and HRK is not good enough, something we all know and illustrated by Wales dropping him despite their lack of options).

Sam Field played centre half. Would you judge Ahmed Hegazi if played in central midfield? Kyle Edwards came on for the last 20 and like Mears before him, got pegged back due to us sitting deep so was effectivly pkaying as a right back at times - the kids best position is a striker or a wide forward.

Harper was not too bad last night. Nothing incredible, but no worse than Barry. Had we set up with genuine wide or forward options, we could have opened up the pitch and see more of what the midfield could do. Instead we played a formation which was over run. The wing backs became full backs as they could not get forward, which left our attacking play being 2 central midfielders, 2 attacking central midfielders and a slow cenrral striker. It was a narrow block that was doomed to fail from the start, as I said in the pre match chat.

I think itnis hugely unfair to judge players on last night. Moore needs to put them into a line up with a realistic chance before we judge individuals too heavily.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on September 26, 2018, 08:52:51 AM
Can we really judge players that much on last night though? They were playing in a completely changed side, with a very disjointed set up, that provided no chance of challenging  on the break due to the lack of pace in the front 3 (Hoolahan and Morrison tried but it isn't their natural game and HRK is not good enough, something we all know and illustrated by Wales dropping him despite their lack of options).

Sam Field played centre half. Would you judge Ahmed Hegazi if played in central midfield? Kyle Edwards came on for the last 20 and like Mears before him, got pegged back due to us sitting deep so was effectivly pkaying as a right back at times - the kids best position is a striker or a wide forward.

Harper was not too bad last night. Nothing incredible, but no worse than Barry. Had we set up with genuine wide or forward options, we could have opened up the pitch and see more of what the midfield could do. Instead we played a formation which was over run. The wing backs became full backs as they could not get forward, which left our attacking play being 2 central midfielders, 2 attacking central midfielders and a slow cenrral striker. It was a narrow block that was doomed to fail from the start, as I said in the pre match chat.

I think itnis hugely unfair to judge players on last night. Moore needs to put them into a line up with a realistic chance before we judge individuals too heavily.

Personally I'm not judging them on last nights performance but the coaches see these players day in day out and THEY deem them not good enough to get a starting place in the League games.
I think some of them would benefit from being loaned out to lower league clubs so that they can get regular game time to aid their development
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on September 26, 2018, 09:06:58 AM
And some people were critical when we didn't start them in the Prem.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: adamw1109 on September 26, 2018, 09:16:28 AM
DM bottled it tonight. Poor tactics and useless subs. His interviews actually make me cringe at times.

Realistically, we should be aiming for promotion this season. If we fail to get it, I think some fans will start turning.

I appreciate we're a club in transition and he's come out saying he wants us to play exciting football, but aside from stuffing a toothless QPR, have we been exciting to watch? Not really. We've made hard work of the previous cup games, and we've struggled to make our possession count in games (as in, making key passes - not sitting with it at the back).

It's ok beating bottom teams, but we come up against a bit of class and we have struggled.

Then those fans that start turning need a reality check.

PLENTY of teams have proved it's not easy to drop down to the championship then bounce straight back up the next season.

We have an inexperienced manager, with a new assistant trying to play a new style of football with some players that idiots signed who no one else would want and a couple of his own players... mix with that the likes of brunt, morrison, myhill who are clearly not performing to a great level.

This whole 'transition' period doesnt take one season and for people to expect Moore to work miracles then they need to sit back and think first.

Last night he rested our better players for an important game Saturday and gave the second string a chance to prove themselves..... regardless they should be capable of playing football and make effort... which they failed to do last night.

He will make more mistakes I'm sure of that, but for people to moan in September when we are sitting comfortable in the table and being top goalscorers in English football is embarrassing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on September 26, 2018, 09:44:24 AM
Then those fans that start turning need a reality check.

PLENTY of teams have proved it's not easy to drop down to the championship then bounce straight back up the next season.

We have an inexperienced manager, with a new assistant trying to play a new style of football with some players that idiots signed who no one else would want and a couple of his own players... mix with that the likes of brunt, morrison, myhill who are clearly not performing to a great level.

This whole 'transition' period doesnt take one season and for people to expect Moore to work miracles then they need to sit back and think first.

Last night he rested our better players for an important game Saturday and gave the second string a chance to prove themselves..... regardless they should be capable of playing football and make effort... which they failed to do last night.

He will make more mistakes I'm sure of that, but for people to moan in September when we are sitting comfortable in the table and being top goalscorers in English football is embarrassing.

Effort? Players did make effort last night. Of all the thibgs we can throw at the., noy trying wasn't one last night.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hardtobeat on September 26, 2018, 09:47:15 AM
Big D has 2 massive questions to answer for me after his team selection
1) Why the continuing infatuation with HRK , he offers the team absolutely nothing bar effort Burke at least has a turn of pace!

2) Why persist with Field at CB, and not give him a go in his best position ? IMO he should have started instead of Barry last night.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: miggybaggy on September 26, 2018, 09:48:12 AM
For me, Darren Moore has his hands tied by the lack of depth and quality in our squad, but his priority has to be promotion surely? My worry is how fragile we would be should anything happen to our most important players...Barnes and Gayle, both of whom are loans.

I really hope Darren Moore and the board are working hard to remedy that scenario.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on September 26, 2018, 09:55:06 AM
I was about to say just this.
Fans have been saying why haven't the likes of Harper, Field and Edwards been playing on Saturdays, the answer was there for all to see last night.
The training staff see them day in day out so they get the full picture.
The kids looked good against the likes of Luton and Mansfield but I think last night that the Championship is a step up that they are not ready to take.

You're an 18 year old kid looking for inspiration to your right Tyrone Mears is hiding and going through the motions , to your left you have Gareth Barry whose legs have gone , in front you have an old man and injury prone Morrison and up front you have a complete waster what chance have you got ? I was there last night there was very little intensity so it did the kids more harm than good , the atmosphere was non existent .Would be better off at Walsall or Shrewsbury where they will play .

The club likes to spin good things about its academy but it’s a sad state of affairs they trust a kid from Leicester city above their own .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on September 26, 2018, 09:57:17 AM
I love the cups and am always disappointed when we don't give it a go but, for once, I'm not that fussed. It's clear that DM sees it as a distraction and, while I don't agree, I can see his point. When in the Prem, the cups were our only chance of success but, this year, we genuinely have something to play for so I'll cut him some slack.
As for the team selection and performance, it was truly woeful with not a single player doing anything to raise their profile. That being said, we have to remember that Palace are a Prem side and not a bad one at that, whereas we are now a league below, so would probably expect to get beat even with a full strength side. maybe DM didn't want to derail our momentum by having our 1st 11 gubbed.
If we win Saturday, all will be forgiven.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on September 26, 2018, 10:00:14 AM
You're an 18 year old kid looking for inspiration to your right Tyrone Mears is hiding and going through the motions , to your left you have Gareth Barry whose legs have gone , in front you have an old man and injury prone Morrison and up front you have a complete waster what chance have you got ? I was there last night there was very little intensity so it did the kids more harm than good , the atmosphere was non existent .Would be better off at Walsall or Shrewsbury where they will play .

The club likes to spin good things about its academy but it’s a sad state of affairs they trust a kid from Leicester city above their own .
Sorry but we don't have anyone, kid or senior, that is anywhere near the kid from Leicester.
If DM where to drop Barnes for any of our own, I would think he'd lost his mind!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on September 26, 2018, 10:03:18 AM
I love the cups and am always disappointed when we don't give it a go but, for once, I'm not that fussed. It's clear that DM sees it as a distraction and, while I don't agree, I can see his point. When in the Prem, the cups were our only chance of success but, this year, we genuinely have something to play for so I'll cut him some slack.
As for the team selection and performance, it was truly woeful with not a single player doing anything to raise their profile. That being said, we have to remember that Palace are a Prem side and not a bad one at that, whereas we are now a league below, so would probably expect to get beat even with a full strength side. maybe DM didn't want to derail our momentum by having our 1st 11 gubbed.
If we win Saturday, all will be forgiven.


I won't, not on this issue.

Putting out a weakened team is bad enough but when we are 1-0 down, yes only 1-0, he could easily have put Burke and Leko on and have a go at Palace. He did nothing at all to try and win that game and that for me is unacceptable in any circumstances.

No I won't hang him because of it but there is no way I will condone his attitude towards that fixture last night.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on September 26, 2018, 10:11:48 AM

I won't, not on this issue.

Putting out a weakened team is bad enough but when we are 1-0 down, yes only 1-0, he could easily have put Burke and Leko on and have a go at Palace. He did nothing at all to try and win that game and that for me is unacceptable in any circumstances.

No I won't hang him because of it but there is no way I will condone his attitude towards that fixture last night.
I'll never agree with it mate, every year I'm a bit nearer to carking it without seeing us win a cup. Just saying I understand his motives in his first full season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: DaveWBA on September 26, 2018, 10:19:21 AM
Perhaps you'd all be better served directing your angst at those in charge of recruitment for assembling such a shallow squad. Crystal Palace are a team we were competing against and beating 12 months ago, now they're able to field a second string full of internationals. We had a young central midfielder at centre half and Wes Hoolahan.

Aside from bringing on some fast lads instead of HRK, what was Big Dave supposed to do? Leko and Burke hardly have a track record of coming on and changing a game do they?!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on September 26, 2018, 10:44:30 AM
I think what last night did show was how far we have regressed as a club and thats not Darren Moore's fault.

Just over a year ago we were starting a premier league season as a stable mid table club who had finished 10th the season before, within twelve months we had finished bottom after a quite pathetic season (last 6 games aside) and last night Crystal Palaces backup team outclassed our backup team.

The majority of Palace backups players last night would get in our starting team, to put it in context this is Crystal Palace, not Man City or Liverpool, Palace are a nothing premier league team (as we were) but they are far far superior to us nowadays, we have fallen so much in the last year (though the rot had started before that)

Last night Palace didnt even need to break sweat, they played in second gear and if it wasnt for some good saves from Myhill it could of been 6 or 7. It showed where our squad is at, based on last night alone we have a number of players like Mears, Field, Harper, Townsend, Morrison, Robson-Kanu who can fill in as a backup but put them together as a team and it shows the lack of quality.

That said it was against premier league opposition and its not fair to judge based on been thrown together for a game once a month which is what has happened with the cup, but last night maybe gives a good idea of where we are as a club and what Mooro is doing.

Just my view but i would say Big Dave has been told by the owners to get us promoted by hook or by crook, get on the premier league gravy train again. Our squad should be very competitive at this level as its proving this season, our attacking firepower will blow away most teams and that will compensate for a lot of our defensive issues.

I think he is trying to implement a more passing style whilst trying to achieve the above and it is tough,  but i think he knows the end goal from the owners this season is promotion, thats why he wanted to keep the bulk of last seasons squad as they should be more than good enough at this level, add the quality of Gayle and Barnes at this level and it bodes well.

With us signing Hoolahan (who looks good) and by the looks of it Sako on short term deals, it means we have took advantage of our financial position as a newly relegated club and gives us a strong chance of just over powering and attacking teams and just been too strong.

The downside to that is its a short term approach, its almost lets get promoted and worry about the premier league then, i dont think we are building anything at the moment, if we did go up, the only ones who you could say may even be premier league quality next year who we own would be Johnstone, Dawson, Gibbs, Phillips, Jrod, Livermore and there are major questions about all of them.

As a fan i would like to of seen us sign more players with a view to long term development and i would be surprised if Moore didnt think the same, as they get better, we get better, and they make the step up with us, like Bournemouth did, even if that means not going up right away.

However i understand the downside to that is you cant pick and choose if / when you go up and from the owners point of view they arent bothered about player development, progression, etc they just want to make sure we are back getting £200m a season for being in the premier league.

I think overall with all the above factors, Big Dave is doing a good job of whats asked of him, i do think the biggest mistake he has made is keeping the young players at the club when we were looking at signing experienced players on short team deals, those lads wont play now for a few months and based on last night, they arent good enough yet, they need to be playing reguarly elsewhere, where winning and losing means something.

I would imagine with Dowling coming in now there would hopefully be a bit more long term vision but i do think this seasons is just get up by whatever means possible.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on September 26, 2018, 11:10:13 AM
And don't forget there was a lot of talk in the summer about how we could do a Sunderland.  I suppose we still could, but it looks like we've avoided that one.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on September 26, 2018, 11:12:40 AM
And don't forget there was a lot of talk in the summer about how we could do a Sunderland.  I suppose we still could, but it looks like we've avoided that one.
That, sir, is a very good point!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on September 26, 2018, 11:14:14 AM
I didn't go last night so I am not carrying the disappointment of seeing a defeat, and I feel this cup is one too many for a squad like ours (full team for the FA please Darren Moore) but found it interesting that he pretty much used it as a way to give the likes of Hoolahan, Morrison and Mears some game time.  Not sure why Barry needed to play, but apart from that you can't really argue with his team too much and I would not have wanted Gayle risked unless it was 0-0 with 10 mins to go.   Also interesting to see that he is persisting with Field at CB, although you can see why Darren Moore wants to try out/develop him in the role as the system he wants to play ideally needs good passers in that position. 

Would have been good to see the likes of Leko and Burke get some game time over the often ineffectual HRK , but think that shows how far ahead Harper and Field are in the minds of Darren Moore.  Leko, well maybe he's just not good enough (remember he couldn't get in the Bristol team last year) and Burke - well, its one of those - nothing concrete but the noises you hear around him just aren't positive.  When he was captaining the Scotland kids it seemed he did not mix well with the group and that's not a good sign, particularly when you know Darren Moore is very much about team rather than individuals.

My only real concern at the moment is actually up front.  I see a lot of comments saying that our front department can blow teams away, but take Gayle and Barnes out of that team and we are left with JRod and HRK who, whilst both are grafters, can both look quite impotent at times.  Lets hope the Sakho deal does come through.....didn't realise he scored 6 in 18 at Premier level for Palace before his injury and even a 80% fit Sakho could have an impact at this level.



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on September 26, 2018, 11:24:05 AM
I didn't go last night so I am not carrying the disappointment of seeing a defeat, and I feel this cup is one too many for a squad like ours (full team for the FA please Darren Moore) but found it interesting that he pretty much used it as a way to give the likes of Hoolahan, Morrison and Mears some game time.  Not sure why Barry needed to play, but apart from that you can't really argue with his team too much and I would not have wanted Gayle risked unless it was 0-0 with 10 mins to go.   Also interesting to see that he is persisting with Field at CB, although you can see why Darren Moore wants to try out/develop him in the role as the system he wants to play ideally needs good passers in that position. 

Would have been good to see the likes of Leko and Burke get some game time over the often ineffectual HRK , but think that shows how far ahead Harper and Field are in the minds of Darren Moore.  Leko, well maybe he's just not good enough (remember he couldn't get in the Bristol team last year) and Burke - well, its one of those - nothing concrete but the noises you hear around him just aren't positive.  When he was captaining the Scotland kids it seemed he did not mix well with the group and that's not a good sign, particularly when you know Darren Moore is very much about team rather than individuals.

My only real concern at the moment is actually up front.  I see a lot of comments saying that our front department can blow teams away, but take Gayle and Barnes out of that team and we are left with JRod and HRK who, whilst both are grafters, can both look quite impotent at times.  Lets hope the Sakho deal does come through.....didn't realise he scored 6 in 18 at Premier level for Palace before his injury and even a 80% fit Sakho could have an impact at this level.
I would rather have an 80% Sako, with a brick in his shoe, over HRK.
That may seem harsh but he just isn't any good. Whenever he starts we are, as you say, impotent. Need an upgrade regardless but, if Gayle gets injured, we could really struggle. Get Sako in please.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on September 26, 2018, 11:33:21 AM
I think what last night did show was how far we have regressed as a club and thats not Darren Moore's fault.

Just over a year ago we were starting a premier league season as a stable mid table club who had finished 10th the season before, within twelve months we had finished bottom after a quite pathetic season (last 6 games aside) and last night Crystal Palaces backup team outclassed our backup team.

The majority of Palace backups players last night would get in our starting team, to put it in context this is Crystal Palace, not Man City or Liverpool, Palace are a nothing premier league team (as we were) but they are far far superior to us nowadays, we have fallen so much in the last year (though the rot had started before that)

Last night Palace didnt even need to break sweat, they played in second gear and if it wasnt for some good saves from Myhill it could of been 6 or 7. It showed where our squad is at, based on last night alone we have a number of players like Mears, Field, Harper, Townsend, Morrison, Robson-Kanu who can fill in as a backup but put them together as a team and it shows the lack of quality.

That said it was against premier league opposition and its not fair to judge based on been thrown together for a game once a month which is what has happened with the cup, but last night maybe gives a good idea of where we are as a club and what Mooro is doing.

Just my view but i would say Big Dave has been told by the owners to get us promoted by hook or by crook, get on the premier league gravy train again. Our squad should be very competitive at this level as its proving this season, our attacking firepower will blow away most teams and that will compensate for a lot of our defensive issues.

I think he is trying to implement a more passing style whilst trying to achieve the above and it is tough,  but i think he knows the end goal from the owners this season is promotion, thats why he wanted to keep the bulk of last seasons squad as they should be more than good enough at this level, add the quality of Gayle and Barnes at this level and it bodes well.

With us signing Hoolahan (who looks good) and by the looks of it Sako on short term deals, it means we have took advantage of our financial position as a newly relegated club and gives us a strong chance of just over powering and attacking teams and just been too strong.

The downside to that is its a short term approach, its almost lets get promoted and worry about the premier league then, i dont think we are building anything at the moment, if we did go up, the only ones who you could say may even be premier league quality next year who we own would be Johnstone, Dawson, Gibbs, Phillips, Jrod, Livermore and there are major questions about all of them.

As a fan i would like to of seen us sign more players with a view to long term development and i would be surprised if Moore didnt think the same, as they get better, we get better, and they make the step up with us, like Bournemouth did, even if that means not going up right away.

However i understand the downside to that is you cant pick and choose if / when you go up and from the owners point of view they arent bothered about player development, progression, etc they just want to make sure we are back getting £200m a season for being in the premier league.

I think overall with all the above factors, Big Dave is doing a good job of whats asked of him, i do think the biggest mistake he has made is keeping the young players at the club when we were looking at signing experienced players on short team deals, those lads wont play now for a few months and based on last night, they arent good enough yet, they need to be playing reguarly elsewhere, where winning and losing means something.

I would imagine with Dowling coming in now there would hopefully be a bit more long term vision but i do think this seasons is just get up by whatever means possible.

I made the exact same point last night.

There are 5 players at least (Hoolahan, Mears, Barnes, Gayle, Adarabioyo). Add to that the Barry who is almost definitely in his last year and ageing Brunt and Morrison, regardless of whether we go up or not we'll be in a much weaker position next season.

Like you say, don't think DM has been able to much in this respect, with the exception of the Bartley signing, the money of which could've perhaps been used better elsewhere.

Having said that I think his lack of experience counts for something here as some of the more old, wily heads (not necessarily better managers) would've pushed harder for more money/more long-term solution signings.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on September 26, 2018, 12:01:48 PM
Lads I understand the priorities but blatantly not attempting to win the game is not on. Burke and Leko could've come on at 1-0 and given Palace something to think about at least. That wouldn't have compromised the league campaign as neither of figuring but it might, just might have got us an equaliser last night. Instead Darren Moore made three substitutions which had no positive intent at all. Hell, Gayle could've even come on for half an hour or so. What if he got injured? Better not let him train then, just in case.

Excuses, and it's not good enough.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: adamw1109 on September 26, 2018, 12:28:00 PM
Effort? Players did make effort last night. Of all the thibgs we can throw at the., noy trying wasn't one last night.

Did you see myhills poor attempts at diving? Did you not see players passing the ball and the receiver just standing there? Instead of moving towards the ball? Which happened countless times which resulted in us losing possession...Did you not see HRK receiving the ball and just standing there to hold off the defender instead of trying to move with the ball or pass it? Did you not see the amount of times they had the ball and no one attempted to apply any pressure?

That's all lack of effort.

These are professional footballers, some older, some younger, some inexperienced... but everyone on that pitch has the ability to play football... last night that didnt show. Moore gave them a chance and they didn't take it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on September 26, 2018, 12:32:06 PM
Did you see myhills poor attempts at diving? Did you not see players passing the ball and the receiver just standing there? Instead of moving towards the ball? Which happened countless times which resulted in us losing possession...Did you not see HRK receiving the ball and just standing there to hold off the defender instead of trying to move with the ball or pass it? Did you not see the amount of times they had the ball and no one attempted to apply any pressure?

That's all lack of effort.

These are professional footballers, some older, some younger, some inexperienced... but everyone on that pitch has the ability to play football... last night that didnt show. Moore gave them a chance and they didn't take it.


He always does that. He's absolutely rubbish to be brutally honest.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on September 26, 2018, 12:49:45 PM
For all Moore's more progressive tactics, he does seem like any other dinosaur manager in a lot of respects.

Last night we showed no will to win the game, no intensity at all. To judge the kids on that last night would be like judging them on pre-season games - we were just going through the motions. That's the kind of approach I would expect from Pulis or Pardew, not a young manager looking to make a name for himself. Derby beating Man United will have given the entire club a big lift, and give fans and players more faith in a manager who is still learning.

The lack of trust in the kids is shocking. If they aren't good enough, release them. If they may be good enough but aren't quite ready, ship them out on loan. If they are good enough, give them chance. Field is good enough, Burke has shown flashes that he could be. Instead we sign 30-odd year-old players, because they have 'experience'. It's dispiriting for those who want to see academy players in the team, and it must be extremely dispiriting for young players who thought they would be getting more of a look-in this season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 26, 2018, 01:37:20 PM
The lack of trust in the kids is shocking. If they aren't good enough, release them. If they may be good enough but aren't quite ready, ship them out on loan. If they are good enough, give them chance. Field is good enough, Burke has shown flashes that he could be. Instead we sign 30-odd year-old players, because they have 'experience'. It's dispiriting for those who want to see academy players in the team, and it must be extremely dispiriting for young players who thought they would be getting more of a look-in this season.
All very good points. The suggestion from the way the management team approaching these games is that the young players aren't good enough and it's apparent that many of the older back-ups aren't either. Therefore, once suspensions and injuries kick in (and they will at some point) it doesn't bode well on the face of it. We didn't want to loan the young players out, but we seemingly don't want to put them on the pitch either, and that approach doesn't make much sense really.

Once the season ends, all the loan/free agent players have gone and Brunt, Morrison & Barry will be another year older, we're not going to have an awful lot left that's deemed to be good enough at this level, let alone if we get promoted.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on September 26, 2018, 02:49:15 PM
All very good points. The suggestion from the way the management team approaching these games is that the young players aren't good enough and it's apparent that many of the older back-ups aren't either. Therefore, once suspensions and injuries kick in (and they will at some point) it doesn't bode well on the face of it. We didn't want to loan the young players out, but we seemingly don't want to put them on the pitch either, and that approach doesn't make much sense really.

Once the season ends, all the loan/free agent players have gone and Brunt, Morrison & Barry will be another year older, we're not going to have an awful lot left that's deemed to be good enough at this level, let alone if we get promoted.

This does make you wonder if loaning young players out was simply not a priority in the close season, lets not forget we had Darren & Jenkins and no-one else in place,
Maybe once the squad was filled on a one in- one out basis, then the kids going out would have been seen as next most important job, but as has been clearly shown by the Mears / Hooligan signings this 1st team squad replenishment failed to get completed, and so the kids have become victims of the clubs lack of management resources at that time.
A sad indictment but plausible ???
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: DaveWBA on September 26, 2018, 02:54:50 PM
For all Moore's more progressive tactics, he does seem like any other dinosaur manager in a lot of respects.

Last night we showed no will to win the game, no intensity at all. To judge the kids on that last night would be like judging them on pre-season games - we were just going through the motions. That's the kind of approach I would expect from Pulis or Pardew, not a young manager looking to make a name for himself. Derby beating Man United will have given the entire club a big lift, and give fans and players more faith in a manager who is still learning.

The lack of trust in the kids is shocking. If they aren't good enough, release them. If they may be good enough but aren't quite ready, ship them out on loan. If they are good enough, give them chance. Field is good enough, Burke has shown flashes that he could be. Instead we sign 30-odd year-old players, because they have 'experience'. It's dispiriting for those who want to see academy players in the team, and it must be extremely dispiriting for young players who thought they would be getting more of a look-in this season.

In recent (and not so recent seasons) we've released or sold Roofe, Wood, Sawyers, Roberts and there have been threads on here throughout the summer questioning these decisions. What do you want the club to do? They can't really win can they.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on September 26, 2018, 03:40:24 PM
It's not as bad as a lot of people are making out. Ok, we lost a Malibu Cup (or whatever it's called) game to higher league opposition, fielding a weakened side.
The 1st team squad is doing fantastically well in the league and promotion is a real possibility which, for me, is as good as we could have hoped for.
Yes, if we go up, we'll need to rebuild but who doesn't.
We'll still have
Johnstone
Gibbs
Dawson
Bartley
Hegazi
Phillips
Brunt
Livermore
Rodriguez
Hoolahan
Townsend
Mears
Morrison
Burke
Leko
Field
Edwards
Harper

I know that's nowhere near a Prem squad but it's a base and we still have January transfer window so, provided we bring in 1st teamers and not squad players, we could hold our own.

In the meantime, let's just enjoy the ride. We're 3rd in the table and scoring for fun. Life is good.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on September 26, 2018, 06:35:38 PM
Then those fans that start turning need a reality check.

PLENTY of teams have proved it's not easy to drop down to the championship then bounce straight back up the next season.

We have an inexperienced manager, with a new assistant trying to play a new style of football with some players that idiots signed who no one else would want and a couple of his own players... mix with that the likes of brunt, morrison, myhill who are clearly not performing to a great level.

This whole 'transition' period doesnt take one season and for people to expect Moore to work miracles then they need to sit back and think first.

Last night he rested our better players for an important game Saturday and gave the second string a chance to prove themselves..... regardless they should be capable of playing football and make effort... which they failed to do last night.

He will make more mistakes I'm sure of that, but for people to moan in September when we are sitting comfortable in the table and being top goalscorers in English football is embarrassing.

Embarrassing?

So fans aren't allowed to express concerns about the future of our club?

The fact is, if we don't get straight back up it will get harder and harder. We have attracted some quality players like Barnes, but if we become a midtable championship side, who will we attract? Generally, we are expected to bounce straight back, we are one of the favourites to go back up.

The problem I have with DM at the moment is he is making glaringly obvious mistakes. Mistakes that a professional shouldn't be making.

My point was that IF we don't go back up, fans may start looking back on some of these mistakes and use them as reasons why he should be replaced. There's no room in football for sentiment.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on September 26, 2018, 09:07:48 PM
In recent (and not so recent seasons) we've released or sold Roofe, Wood, Sawyers, Roberts and there have been threads on here throughout the summer questioning these decisions. What do you want the club to do? They can't really win can they.

I want the club to give them a chance. A real chance, not a perceived chance like last night.

If they are good enough, they'll come on and do well, and become a regular. If they don't, then neither fans nor players can claim that it's just because they haven't been given a chance.

On a wider scale, I'd like to see more trust in young players such as you see in Spain, Germany, et al. It wasn't that long ago England U21's lined up against Germany U21's, and they had four times the amount of first team appearances our lads did. That's a gap that needs closing if the national team and the game is to progress.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on September 26, 2018, 09:23:33 PM
Darren took on a impossible job trying to keep us in the prem & almost pulled it off. The job he now faces in trying 1st time to get us back into the prem is far harder for him to achieve but gets the backing of most of us fans/supporters but a large percentage of them must have fears on if he's up to the job based on what we have seen so far
His starting 11 seems to make no sense at times when he keeps playing players out of position even when the game before they looked just has poor.
His subs baffle some of us by taking of players doing a job only to replace them & by doing this our team seems to lose its way.
Its this kind of substitutions that worry me the most.


But on the other hand if he is trying to show Mr. Lai that he needs money for the January window to better the squad it could be a Master Stroke by  him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 26, 2018, 10:06:30 PM
Darren took on a impossible job trying to keep us in the prem & almost pulled it off. The job he now faces in trying 1st time to get us back into the prem is far harder for him to achieve but gets the backing of most of us fans/supporters but a large percentage of them must have fears on if he's up to the job based on what we have seen so far
His starting 11 seems to make no sense at times when he keeps playing players out of position even when the game before they looked just has poor.
His subs baffle some of us by taking of players doing a job only to replace them & by doing this our team seems to lose its way.
Its this kind of substitutions that worry me the most.


But on the other hand if he is trying to show Mr. Lai that he needs money for the January window to better the squad it could be a Master Stroke by  him.
I wanted him to succeed and want him to succeed in the Championship and get us back. He needs to have a hard look at his squad, but is it good enough?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on September 26, 2018, 10:11:13 PM
How many people on this forum truly believe that we should expect to go back up?  And how many of those have followed us in the championship before? It’s not a given, we have no divine right, and we have to fight for every point against some extremely talented sides managed by extremely talented people.

To take on our squad after what has been a devastating season in every possible way, bring back pride, transform the style, and deliver a start to a season that sees us with a chance to go top this weekend as leading goal scorers ... and we moan about Moore? Really? I am genuinely astonished at some of the comments being made on here.

This is a time when we should be completely and utterly united behind the team. That’s where I am.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adamstv on September 26, 2018, 11:28:47 PM
How many people on this forum truly believe that we should expect to go back up?  And how many of those have followed us in the championship before? It’s not a given, we have no divine right, and we have to fight for every point against some extremely talented sides managed by extremely talented people.

To take on our squad after what has been a devastating season in every possible way, bring back pride, transform the style, and deliver a start to a season that sees us with a chance to go top this weekend as leading goal scorers ... and we moan about Moore? Really? I am genuinely astonished at some of the comments being made on here.

This is a time when we should be completely and utterly united behind the team. That’s where I am.

Hear hear cracking post and I feel exactly like you . Cannot believe the amount of moaning going on . Yes he will make mistakes , what manager doesn’t, and he is new to the job but have I enjoyed some of the football this season - Yes I have compared to the sterile I have watched for the last 3 years or so.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: DaveWBA on September 27, 2018, 08:10:50 AM
I want the club to give them a chance. A real chance, not a perceived chance like last night.

If they are good enough, they'll come on and do well, and become a regular. If they don't, then neither fans nor players can claim that it's just because they haven't been given a chance.

On a wider scale, I'd like to see more trust in young players such as you see in Spain, Germany, et al. It wasn't that long ago England U21's lined up against Germany U21's, and they had four times the amount of first team appearances our lads did. That's a gap that needs closing if the national team and the game is to progress.

At any level the most they're going to get is 5/6 games to prove their worth. The only one of our current crop I think has taken their chance is Field and arguably he can feel a little hard done by having to sit and watch Livermore, Brunt and Barry on the pitch ahead of him each week. I think you forget the coaching staff see these players every day and whilst it's nice to be able to bring youngsters through, if there are any doubts over whether they're good enough then it's not potentially worth sacrificing points for. What other team in England has four/five youth team players all coming into the first team at the same time? I can't think of one off the top of my head, maybe Everton? There was a stat produced last season saying West Brom academy graduates had the most minutes of any in the PL. What will you be saying if we line up on Saturday at Preston with five academy lads in the team and get beat 3-0?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on September 27, 2018, 08:42:44 AM
At any level the most they're going to get is 5/6 games to prove their worth. The only one of our current crop I think has taken their chance is Field and arguably he can feel a little hard done by having to sit and watch Livermore, Brunt and Barry on the pitch ahead of him each week. I think you forget the coaching staff see these players every day and whilst it's nice to be able to bring youngsters through, if there are any doubts over whether they're good enough then it's not potentially worth sacrificing points for. What other team in England has four/five youth team players all coming into the first team at the same time? I can't think of one off the top of my head, maybe Everton? There was a stat produced last season saying West Brom academy graduates had the most minutes of any in the PL. What will you be saying if we line up on Saturday at Preston with five academy lads in the team and get beat 3-0?

I think the problem with youth players stems through pretty much every team in England.

You only have to look at some of the teams the big boys put out in the cup this week, Chelsea for instance, could easily have played Loftus Cheek and a few youngsters.

United could have played a few youngsters, Liverpools team didn't really have too many youngsters in it. Look at Arsenals starting 11 against Brentford, hardly any youth players in it. If they aren't going to give this youngsters a chance in a round 3/4 cup game, then they are never going to break in to the first team.

Someone pointed out earlier that the coaching staff see these youngsters training every day so they will know if they are 'ready'. But it baffles me that if some of them aren't going to get any game time, then it makes more sense to send them out on loan for a few months.

Especially when we are now close to signing Sako, we could have easily loaned one of Edwards/Leko out on loan, and also looked to potentially loan Harper out (just pop an emergency recall in the deal).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on September 27, 2018, 08:48:24 AM
I think the problem stems from everyone wanting instant results NOW.  It's fine to play the kids and win, pats on the back all round.  Lose though and you get heavily criticised.

Loaning out to lower leagues can work but only if they're good enough to get results at that level AND good enough to improve.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: DaveWBA on September 27, 2018, 08:56:13 AM
I think the problem with youth players stems through pretty much every team in England.

You only have to look at some of the teams the big boys put out in the cup this week, Chelsea for instance, could easily have played Loftus Cheek and a few youngsters.

United could have played a few youngsters, Liverpools team didn't really have too many youngsters in it. Look at Arsenals starting 11 against Brentford, hardly any youth players in it. If they aren't going to give this youngsters a chance in a round 3/4 cup game, then they are never going to break in to the first team.

Someone pointed out earlier that the coaching staff see these youngsters training every day so they will know if they are 'ready'. But it baffles me that if some of them aren't going to get any game time, then it makes more sense to send them out on loan for a few months.

Especially when we are now close to signing Sako, we could have easily loaned one of Edwards/Leko out on loan, and also looked to potentially loan Harper out (just pop an emergency recall in the deal).

These kids have to be good enough in the first instance though. There was quite interesting discussion on Sky last night before the Liverpool game. Looking at the case of TAA, he was given 5/6 games and took his chance and now he's a regular in the team and has playing in the WC and the CL final.

I'd love to see an Albion team full of local lads doing well, playing good football but the reality is they're not going to get in the team if the management don't deem them an improvement on what we already have. Like I say, the only one I feel has been slightly hard done by is Sam Field.

As for letting them go, our squad is wafer thin and realistically we need them. We've played 9 of 46 games - I'm sure they'll all get their chance between now and May.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on September 27, 2018, 11:27:49 AM
I think Darren Moore is doing a good job, he will make mistakes along the way but overall we are going well.

As said previous i dont think he has the luxury of building a team over a few years, developing players, etc i think his remit is get promoted ASAP or likely scenario he will be out of a job.

Some things i think he gets wrong, i know people say we need a big squad for the championship and i agree to an extent but realistically we all probably know the team for saturday and it will just be who plays centre midfield out of Barry and Brunt, whoever plays saturday against Preston will also play against Reading the following saturday, with the other coming in to play midweek against Sheffield Wednesday.

They then have two weeks off so I think this rotating and keeping players fresh thing just doesnt happen, injuries aside we probably know what the team is as it has been for most of the season! When your winning everyone wants to play so that tiredness doesnt quite seem so bad!

As stated above, i think Moore is under pressure from the board to get promoted ASAP so has gone with
the tried and trusted players, rather than risking giving the youngsters a run of games which us fans maybe want, however i just cant help but think if the youngsters were really that good, he would include them.

Field i think we confirmed we had turned down loan offers for previously and he is obviously around the first team, Fitzwater i think said that Moore had said he was very close to the first team but loaned him out.

I havent seen enough of the others to comment but i do find it strange that last season we had players on loan at Redditch and Hereford, year before that we had a few at Kiddy Harriers and Evesham United, this season we have one at Barrow and i think another non league club.

I think we are a catergory A academy, i dont know about this season but previous seasons even as a championship club, Villa loaned players out to other championship clubs and league one, i think Wolves are similar to Villa, the bulk of our loans seem to be league two and non league, the two who went to championship and league (Leko and Harper) had both came back by Xmas.   

Like i say i dont know enough to judge but i think the above and the fact Moore was the loans manager, worked within our academy so knows what they are like, yet still doesnt pick them perhaps means they just arent good enough which begs the question why they havent been loaned out to give them game time.

PS - Whilst on about the academy, the fact our under 23's lose every week really grates me, i know people say there are a lot of 18 and 19 year olds playing but they also have some senior players involved too, the club have to look at this, losing every week achieves nothing, its okay saying they are learning from the defeats, i think thats rubbish, you creating a losing mentality, the gallant pride in defeat is okay every now and again, not every week.

Winning breeds confidence, you also learn from winning, its okay having the odd bad spell but from what i have seen for nearly two years now our under 23's seem to lose nearly every game, that has to change.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ronnie_allen on September 27, 2018, 11:43:57 AM
PS - Whilst on about the academy, the fact our under 23's lose every week really grates me, i know people say there are a lot of 18 and 19 year olds playing but they also have some senior players involved too, the club have to look at this, losing every week achieves nothing, its okay saying they are learning from the defeats, i think thats rubbish, you creating a losing mentality, the gallant pride in defeat is okay every now and again, not every week.

Winning breeds confidence, you also learn from winning, its okay having the odd bad spell but from what i have seen for nearly two years now our under 23's seem to lose nearly every game, that has to change.

Haven't seen our Under 23 side myself so I am sure yourself and others are more informed than me. My own thoughts on this is that given that Moore (and Jones) are looking to implement a new football style for our first team;  is this also being reflected in the style that our Under 23s play. While there is a good case that results breed confidence; I personally think that in this less pressurised area there is even more of an onus to focus on style of play and allowing players slot into the first team and the style that the manager wants.
Similarly; I do expect us to lose points (and we arguably have already) in the League as we are still transitioning and the manager just has to either to decide whether to stay true to his convictions for the long term benefit or whether to adjust current style to get results more immediately.

Given the approach being taken I am very happy that we are in the upper echelons of the League now and if we can stay within touching distance come the New Year I would be reasonably confident that we can compete for an automatic promotion spot.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: stoxman on September 28, 2018, 12:29:35 PM
Overall I think he is doing OK.   On a scale of A-E I would give him a B-.    1 point off top is good but I would expect nothing less given the squad he has got.  He's got the best strike force in the league, great wing backs, best attacking midfielder (if that's how we describe Barnes), a midfield squad of Barry/Livermore/Field/Hoolihan/Harper that would get in any other Championship team, centre halves that have all played PL (including a wonderkid from Man City) and a goalkeeper that was envied by all teams.   3rd place must be regarded as a minimum for a team of this quality and therefore I'd give him a C+ for results so far.  Pretty good but no better than I'd expect given his resources.

I'd knock him down a mark for his failures to address our away form, our constant tendency to get overrun in midfield and our appalling defensive record.  We have conceded a similar number of goals as Ipswich and Millwall who are both in the relegation zone...

I'd probably also knock him off a mark for the passing.  I have never seen passing so bad by Albion.  There are times when it looks like an Attackers v Defenders training session in which the defenders have to give the ball back to the attackers to have another go.   

I'd add a mark for the entertainment.  I'm enjoying this season for the first time in quite a few years and his tactics are responsible for that in large part.

Overall B-   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on September 29, 2018, 04:57:30 PM
Top after 10 games
1 point clear
4 clear from 7th
Top goal scorers,
Fantastic

Huge well done to Darren, the staff and players
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on September 29, 2018, 05:01:29 PM
Top after 10 games
1 point clear
4 clear from 7th
Top goal scorers,
Fantastic

Huge well done to Darren, the staff and players

Totally agree. 5 unbeaten with 4 wins. The form team in the league. And plenty of room for improvement. Given the devastation of last season I never expected to see us where we are, playing the way we are. Well done!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: garry on September 29, 2018, 05:03:51 PM
Division Manager of the Month
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on September 29, 2018, 05:45:43 PM
We just need to stop conceding soft goals. Or at least not as many. Still get the sense we have a lot more to give. Big game on Wednesday now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on September 29, 2018, 05:49:44 PM
needs to drop some of the defenders
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on September 29, 2018, 06:00:47 PM
We just need to stop conceding soft goals. Or at least not as many. Still get the sense we have a lot more to give. Big game on Wednesday now.

Perhaps it's a ploy to get teams to play expansive football against us so we can out score them?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: stoxman on September 29, 2018, 06:08:44 PM
Top after 10 games
1 point clear
4 clear from 7th
Top goal scorers,
Fantastic

Huge well done to Darren, the staff and players

I’d stay with my B- assessment so far (and I’m a natural optimist!).   Of course I’m delighted that we are top of the league and scoring goals but all the coaching problems were still present today.   PNE could easily have won that game.  We scored an own goal. They should have had a penalty, hit the post and scored a soft goal.   If Moore et al are going to be a really good coach rather than just a decent coach of the best squad in this league, there is a lot more work to be done in training.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on September 29, 2018, 06:09:22 PM
Having just gone through the last 10 years in the championship, the side who are top after ten games nearly always get promoted.

Now we have some real deficiencies, but it is looking likely that Moore will have us in a real promotion battle this season, rather than a struggle to break top 6.

Disagree with a lot of what he does but hard to argue with his results.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on September 29, 2018, 06:09:53 PM
Perhaps it's a ploy to get teams to play expansive football against us so we can out score them?

If it is it's working great.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on September 29, 2018, 06:13:31 PM
Having just gone through the last 10 years in the championship, the side who are top after ten games nearly always get promoted.

Now we have some real deficiencies, but it is looking likely that Moore will have us in a real promotion battle this season, rather than a struggle to break top 6.

Disagree with a lot of what he does but hard to argue with his results.

Like yourself I can't get my head around lots of things he does but the table doesn't lie.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on September 29, 2018, 06:37:07 PM
The thing is,there are things that can be  improved on,think about that,its looking good,top of the league top scores enjoy the ride because the league isn't won now. So guys pace yourselves for the ups and downs.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on September 30, 2018, 01:22:44 PM
Congratulations Big Dave,now just drop Bartley,move Dawson across to centre half,get a right back in,and a commanding centre midfielder,and all will end well,it is that simple
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on September 30, 2018, 01:48:49 PM
Congratulations Big Dave,now just drop Bartley,move Dawson across to centre half,get a right back in,and a commanding centre midfielder,and all will end well,it is that simple


Dawson does play centre half.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on September 30, 2018, 03:33:07 PM

Dawson does play centre half.
Suspect that he means central centre half
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on September 30, 2018, 05:13:18 PM

Dawson does play centre half.
where did he play last time and every time we go 442 right back
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on September 30, 2018, 05:38:13 PM
The commanding mf ended up at Stoke where he gets motm every game so far.

But, it's OK we have a mozza coming back from another injury.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on September 30, 2018, 07:08:48 PM
In Bartley's defence hes right footed and playing on the left hand side.  A couple of times on Saturday when he got into trouble it was down to this.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 30, 2018, 07:14:49 PM
In Bartley's defence hes right footed and playing on the left hand side.  A couple of times on Saturday when he got into trouble it was down to this.


What about the other 40 or 50 times?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on September 30, 2018, 08:46:41 PM
With get me wrong, he's looking poor played in that position and maybe not excellent in his natural position. This is the problem with square pegs in round holes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on September 30, 2018, 09:14:34 PM
where did he play last time and every time we go 442 right back


?? But we don't play 4-4-2 anymore!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on September 30, 2018, 11:32:32 PM
In Bartley's defence hes right footed and playing on the left hand side.  A couple of times on Saturday when he got into trouble it was down to this.
Totally agree. But some have him marked down as the man to blame for everything. Unfair in my view but it’s all about opinions.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on October 01, 2018, 10:05:55 AM
I'd be happy if he didn't try to swap shirts with opposition player during game in our box and kept his hands down
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on October 01, 2018, 12:05:49 PM
I’d stay with my B- assessment so far (and I’m a natural optimist!).   Of course I’m delighted that we are top of the league and scoring goals but all the coaching problems were still present today.   PNE could easily have won that game.  We scored an own goal. They should have had a penalty, hit the post and scored a soft goal.   If Moore et al are going to be a really good coach rather than just a decent coach of the best squad in this league, there is a lot more work to be done in training.

Surely we can go back over every game and point out where we “could” have had a different result. We “could” have drawn with Bolton at home and Boro away (hit bar and goal for them was handball). We could have beaten Forest away (Gayle hit post and Barnes bar).
I don’t agree we have the best squad in the league we have some quality individual players. We finished bottom of the league (below Stoke and Swansea) and the only reason we got as many points as we did was because of Moore. He took over a team on its knees that had lost 10 in a row (maybe more tried to forget).
He also recruited Gayle, Johnstone and Barnes.
He isn’t perfect but I have no idea what more people expected at this stage.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on October 01, 2018, 12:41:36 PM
The guy is doing a great job in my opinion. We are far from perfect and he acknowledges that by regularly stating that we are in transition. Transfer dealings also good so far. Lets face it, had he been able to sign Tavernier from Rangers, he wouldn't have considered Mears. Keep it up Darren.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on October 01, 2018, 02:31:16 PM
The guy is doing a great job in my opinion. We are far from perfect and he acknowledges that by regularly stating that we are in transition. Transfer dealings also good so far. Lets face it, had he been able to sign Tavernier from Rangers, he wouldn't have considered Mears. Keep it up Darren.

I wouldn't say a great job, but definitely a good job at least.

But I think this is key, other than spunking money on Bartley, he has signed short-term, ageing, free agents or loan deals (which you assume is purely because he isn't being given the cash from the board) so has done very well with the hand dealt.

I think he sort of proved that in the Palace game as it showed just how weak nearly every backup player is.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on October 01, 2018, 02:53:58 PM
If fit I do think we have the best first 11 in the league, but the squad has huge problems and we have bigger problems to come in the future since the two main stars are not ours.

How much blame you can put on Moore for the above I dont know. Probably very little. He did say he was happy with the squad though prior to the window closing though which was clearly a lie. You don't sign two 35/26 year olds on free transfers if you are happy. Could he have been braver with the board, perhaps. I can understand why he may not have been as a new manager though.

Purely from the playing perspective, whilst you cannot argue with the results I dont think we have been great and unless we improve I think the wheels will come off.


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on October 01, 2018, 03:42:46 PM
I think the Villa situation, at the time, put the fear of god into tightwad Jenkins and he changed the combination to the safe!
This left Darren with few options, with regards transfers, so he has used his nous and brought in players with experience to bolster the squad. The likes of Mears and Hoolahan will do a job over the season (as proved on Saturday), provided they are only required as cover. If we do get hit by injuries then we could be found wanting but we would have to be very unlucky.
The problem will come if we get promoted, we lose key players and our already ageing squad is a year older. It's a Catch 22 though, if you do a Villa and spunk a load of money at it and don't go up, you are in financial meltdown but, if you don't spend and do go up, you need a complete rebuild.
Darren may have preferred the former but it's not his call so he's towed the party line and I think he's worked an absolute miracle under the circumstances and long may it continue.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on October 01, 2018, 05:02:52 PM
Mears could well have been released by January window and hopefully by then the dof and Moore have found a decent right back to compete with Phillips
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on October 01, 2018, 06:24:12 PM
Personally I think the club has done good business.  Barnes and Gayle are the Championship signings of the window.  Hoolahan was a clever signing.

If you had a manager that’s signed Bree, Hogan, McCormack, Lansbury etc then youd have cause to moan.  They’ll be there or thereabouts lol.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on October 01, 2018, 09:36:41 PM

?? But we don't play 4-4-2 anymore!
we did 3 games ago,and we will probably play 3 5 2 and 4 4 2 before the seasons out ,and when we play 4 4 2 Dawson is used as right back,the point I am making is if and when we do go  4 4 2 dawson should play centre half
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 03, 2018, 12:12:15 PM
a nice piece about Darren Moore from The Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/football-league-blog/2018/oct/03/west-brom-championship-darren-moore-smiles-return
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 03, 2018, 12:15:11 PM
we did 3 games ago,and we will probably play 3 5 2 and 4 4 2 before the seasons out ,and when we play 4 4 2 Dawson is used as right back,the point I am making is if and when we do go  4 4 2 dawson should play centre half

did we? 3 games ago was either Millwall or Bristol City neither of which we played 4-4-2. I don't recall us playing 4 at the back since Nyom left. We did end the Millwall game with 6 defenders on the pitch though!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on October 03, 2018, 12:20:36 PM
we did 3 games ago,and we will probably play 3 5 2 and 4 4 2 before the seasons out ,and when we play 4 4 2 Dawson is used as right back,the point I am making is if and when we do go  4 4 2 dawson should play centre half


No we didn't.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: CL3MO on October 03, 2018, 09:12:53 PM
His substitutions tonight are an absolute disgrace.

We're two nil down and he's took off our two strikers!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 03, 2018, 09:20:12 PM
His substitutions tonight are an absolute disgrace.

We're two nil down and he's took off our two strikers!


What we were doing wasn't working. They've gone to the Belgium 3 4 3 with a target man and 2 attacking mids.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on October 03, 2018, 09:21:24 PM
His substitutions tonight are an absolute disgrace.

We're two nil down and he's took off our two strikers!


Bottom line is that Moore is clearly not learning on the job and tonight's substitutions were either a) tactically bankrupt  or b) an early capitulation of the game

Either way this isn't working as it should do and progress is incredibly slow. I have zero confidence that we have the right people to improve the squad into a premier league team.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on October 03, 2018, 09:52:41 PM

Bottom line is that Moore is clearly not learning on the job and tonight's substitutions were either a) tactically bankrupt  or b) an early capitulation of the game

Either way this isn't working as it should do and progress is incredibly slow. I have zero confidence that we have the right people to improve the squad into a premier league team.

I got to give it to you, your name is very appropriate.

A point is OK, and dm isn't thick he knows the defence needs to improve.

I don't think mears was number one choice and given the lack of funds he is given mostly free options

Let's see what happens, we need the defence to improve and dm knows this and he has to sort it out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on October 03, 2018, 09:53:52 PM
I think he got out of jail tonight; poor selection and sloppy defending yet again cost us - bailed out by some individual brilliance from Barnes.

That said, at least we got something. I thought his subs were awful but it did change it looking back. As said though, he seems to have his favourites (Brunt, Mears, Bartley) and they are harming us every time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on October 03, 2018, 09:54:10 PM
I got to give it to you, your name is very appropriate.

A point is OK, and dm isn't thick he knows the defence needs to improve.

I don't think mears was number one choice and given the lack of funds he is given mostly free options

Let's see what happens, we need the defence to improve and dm knows this and he has to sort it out.

Can we cut the personal comments please, not wanted on this forum, please check the rules.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on October 03, 2018, 09:55:53 PM
If we don't get promoted we're screwed, we had the chance to build a young team and give Moore time, we/he chose the short-termist approach of keeping our old players and signing loaness and 30+ year olds. We either rebuild in the PL next summer or lose pretty much everybody and start from scratch in the Championship.

For me Moore has forfeitted his right to be given time because of the squad he has built and the fact he is clearly not interested in developing our younger players. We are a top 2 squad for this season only, Moore's sole aim is promotion, if it looks like he isn't going to achieve that this season then I want us to appoint someone who will.

To date, I've seen no coherent plan other than relying on our attack to outscore every team we play. This league is dross and we've gotten away with it so far, but we're yet to play well for a full 90 minutes, the team selection and substitutions have been severely lacking and we're shipping goals at an alarming rate.

Before anyone churns out the "work in progress" rubbish, we have the best and oldest squad in the league, our two best players are only on loan, we are at our peak. It's top 2 or bust.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on October 03, 2018, 10:01:56 PM
Unbeaten in 6
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dan87uk on October 03, 2018, 10:10:49 PM
A lot of people unhappy with the subs at the time, me included; I thought it was very odd; but... I'm happy to admit that I clearly know less than I think... those substitutions; that on the surface to me and most of us watching looked like a white flag to save people for Saturday; did actually change our shape enough with Hoolahan being the link in the middle to allow Barnes the extra space up top and shifted Brunt wider (where he should be if he's playing, not in the middle) to cross in (right footed I might add) for the first goal.

Second goal was of course all about the boy Barnes, great driving effort from our own half again! As has been mentioned by the pundits, if it was Messi, Ronaldo, Bale, Modric etc it'd be hailed and on replay all week!

There are still concerns... Mears should not be playing for a league 2 club, let alone us and at this point i'd rather see him give the kid from Man City a go in defence over the woeful Bartley.

The less said about Johnstone the better, flaps at everything, doesn't command the box, but with burger boy Myhill on the bench we don't have much choice but to keep him between the sticks.

Brunt and Livermore.... eventually he surely has to see this does not work as a CM partnership, I love Brunt, but he is the weaker of the two in that position. Brunt plays wide, or he doesn't play and it's a drum i'll continue banging. would replace him with Hoolahan/Barry/Field depending on form or fitness...

Some of his tactics are possibly wanting at times, but we can't entirely dismiss that he is seeing something he wants to do with the shape of the team or formation etc, it's just perfecting it, which will only come with more games under his belt to know how to direct the team a bit better.

We're doing ok, we're winning at home and we're battling away, we just have to keep grinding out results and see where we are after the Christmas/New Year period to see if we are still mixing with the top Top 6.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 03, 2018, 10:20:52 PM
I think he got out of jail tonight; poor selection and sloppy defending yet again cost us - bailed out by some individual brilliance from Barnes.

That said, at least we got something. I thought his subs were awful but it did change it looking back. As said though, he seems to have his favourites (Brunt, Mears, Bartley) and they are harming us every time.

How can you describe Mears as a favourite. He has had two league games and he is clearly back up in a position where he is all we have.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on October 03, 2018, 10:21:38 PM

What we were doing wasn't working. They've gone to the Belgium 3 4 3 with a target man and 2 attacking mids.

Like!! Knowledge over knee jerk reaction.  I was confused at first but you could see the new shape after a while.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 03, 2018, 10:23:11 PM
I couldn’t believe the subs but they worked. So how about we give Moore some credit. Just a thought.

There were some on here berating Moore for the subs before they had seen the end of the match. Embarrassing behaviours on this forum at the moment.

Think I’m going to step back from this forum for a while.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: altonbaggie on October 03, 2018, 10:29:12 PM
I nearly crashed in the car listening to the radio when the subs were announced.  And then I lost the signal and then I heard we'd drawn 2-2.  Turns out I don't know as much as the manager or the manager was lucky?  Who knows.

This season is absolutely brilliant.  We've scored loads of goals and we're near the top of the league.  We look really dodgy at the back (something I suspect our two FIFA qualified coaches have spotted) but we're playing football in a really attractive way.  Mears looks like a stopgap measure - I hope he is anyway.  Bartley may end up being a fail but it is still early days really.  When we go forward it is a wonder to watch.  Surely, surely we have to credit the manager for that, don't we?

The worry is that if these comments and the in-game ones are representative then when we have a sticky patch (and we will) we'll be booing and calling for the manager's head.  And that would make me sick to my stomach having suffered through the Pulis years.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on October 03, 2018, 10:36:02 PM
I couldn’t believe the subs but they worked. So how about we give Moore some credit. Just a thought.

There were some on here berating Moore for the subs before they had seen the end of the match. Embarrassing behaviours on this forum at the moment.

Think I’m going to step back from this forum for a while.

My thoughts for a while tonight.   I'm new to posting on the boards but have really enjoyed the first few months.  For me Darren Moore had rejuvenated my love for the club after the Pullis years left me numb and I have a ST again.   Some of the football we are p!aying is wonderfull and some is terrible but it's never boring or souless.   We are in the top 6 and are the divisions top scorers....all this and we are being managed by a club legend who is one of our own!! 

Yet some of the posts are so negative it's making myself and Frazzle wonder if we want to continue on the forum.  You all try and work it out.

It's all just opinions i guess!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on October 03, 2018, 10:39:03 PM
How can you describe Mears as a favourite. He has had two league games and he is clearly back up in a position where he is all we have.
I think he's clearly a favourite - the two have known each other for years. The very fact he came here from an MLS club at his age says a lot, he wouldn't have got near another Championship club other than ours (I would much rather have Edwards, Leko or Burke start ahead of him) - and I don't think either 3 are fantastic.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on October 03, 2018, 10:39:38 PM
Keeper is very shakey and looks nervous in possession, back three are poor on the ball and can't defend. Brunt is not a central midfielder and has been very poor and should be no where near first team. Burke should be a head of Mears and so should Leko. Why Field can't get in team is beyond me, looks like Barry and Wes are a head of him. Only positive I see is at the top with Barnes and Gayle who are on loan are our best players jrod has been fine but with HRK as back up if any of the strikers get injured then we are screwed. Like many on here I don't know how Moore wants to play, playing out from back is fine but if players are uncomfortable and can't pick a pass then you will cause yourself trouble which happened tonight as Wednesday never carved us a part it was mistakes by individual Albion player's
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on October 03, 2018, 10:40:43 PM
My thoughts for a while tonight.   I'm new to posting on the boards but have really enjoyed the first few months.  For me Darren Moore had rejuvenated my love for the club after the Pullis years left me numb and I have a ST again.   Some of the football we are p!aying is wonderfull and some is terrible but it's never boring or souless.   We are in the top 6 and are the divisions top scorers....all this and we are being managed by a club legend who is one of our own!! 

Yet some of the posts are so negative it's making myself and Frazzle wonder if we want to continue on the forum.  You all try and work it out.

The point of a forum is for people to give their opinion which can be positive or negative. If everyone agreed then forums like this and others would be a waste of time. You are new to the forum and your posts so far have been of the type we would like to see more of so it would be a shame if you left but there is no way we would also discourage people from having a different opinion which may not always be a positive one.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on October 03, 2018, 10:49:34 PM
if everyone got upset about too much negativity or positivity there'd be no one on here. 👿
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on October 03, 2018, 10:50:09 PM
The point of a forum is for people to give their opinion which can be positive or negative. If everyone agreed then forums like this and others would be a waste of time. You are new to the forum and your posts so far have been of the type we would like to see more of so it would be a shame if you left but there is no way we would also discourage people from having a different opinion which may not always be a positive one.

Yep I agree on the nature of the forum, maybe my turn to over react and I did revisit my post and add that it is "all just opinion".    Just not something I expected as much of on a Baggies board......Maybe up a the Seal sanctuary yes  ;D   oh well, as my nan used to say "takes all sorts".
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on October 03, 2018, 10:57:41 PM
Well Darren maybe just maybe you know more about your squad than us keyboard experts. A lot of clubs will be more than pleased with a point from Sheffield wed away
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: CL3MO on October 03, 2018, 11:15:35 PM
Like!! Knowledge over knee jerk reaction.  I was confused at first but you could see the new shape after a while.

Thought it was very difficult to tell what we were playing - even Matt Wilson struggled for a good 10 minutes or so.

Chuffed with the comeback but I really don't believe that the change of system contributed to the two goals. Players picked the right pass and Barnes, well, it was a piece of such individual quality.

I did think Hoolahan made a difference though. With a little more composure around the edge of the box I think he could have even found a pass to sneak an unlikely winner.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ranvir wba90 on October 03, 2018, 11:15:56 PM
3-4-1-2 formation does not work away from home.Better opposition will punish us. Field needs to be given a chance. Brunt n livermore as our 2 midfield pairing does not work. They are to slow. Can get away with it at home where we have time on the ball and teams sit off us. Needs to mix it up time to time especially away from home.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on October 03, 2018, 11:17:05 PM
Big Dave making out in post match comments that it was his 3 subs that changed it,noway was this the case,leaving Harvey Barnes on the pitch to fully complete a game was what did it,he is the only player we have that can genuinely conjure up something from nothing,and he might have done this before especially away at Middlesborough when he was substituted just as he was getting in the game and defenders are tiring,barring injury he should always be kept on all game,i think Dave realises this now hopefully,and does anyone think we might have to revert to 442 to sort defence as they just do not seem comfortable at 352
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on October 03, 2018, 11:18:36 PM
Thought it was very difficult to tell what we were playing - even Matt Wilson struggled for a good 10 minutes or so.

Chuffed with the comeback but I really don't believe that the change of system contributed to the two goals. Players picked the right pass and Barnes, well, it was a piece of such individual quality.

I did think Hoolahan made a difference though. With a little more composure around the edge of the box I think he could have even found a pass to sneak an unlikely winner.


Without the change in system Brunt wouldn't have been wide right to supply the cross for the first goal.

That's where Brunt is dangerous not in the middle of the park.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on October 03, 2018, 11:26:30 PM
Darren is getting way too much stick for my liking given the results to date. For sure he needs to sort out the defence and maybe give Barry an extended run instead of alternating with Brunt. But with 27 goals scored in 11 games I am absolutely loving it.
He’s a new boss with things to learn but wow this is entertaining !
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on October 04, 2018, 12:11:41 AM
1 defeat in 10 and some want him gone

 :-[
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on October 04, 2018, 12:13:44 AM
Totally agree KN.
Who was it who said,the harder I practice the luckier I get.
I'm full of praise for what our club has achieved since relegation,fantastic effort from all concerned.
Brilliant entertainment not seen for years.
Love it.
All this chat about our defence,I agree it needs working on the training field,but no team has thrashed us.
The team will be up for the next game and hopefully another three points.
Don't forget we keep picking up points that's the main thing and let's take it one game at a time don't look to far down the road.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on October 04, 2018, 12:14:52 AM
I've just remembered who said it,it was Gary Player,the golfer.
Its so very true.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 04, 2018, 12:28:16 AM
Thought it was very difficult to tell what we were playing - even Matt Wilson struggled for a good 10 minutes or so.

Chuffed with the comeback but I really don't believe that the change of system contributed to the two goals. Players picked the right pass and Barnes, well, it was a piece of such individual quality.

I did think Hoolahan made a difference though. With a little more composure around the edge of the box I think he could have even found a pass to sneak an unlikely winner.


Even Matt Wilson? A fan with a journalism degree? I don't get your point, it was obvious what the changes were.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on October 04, 2018, 02:16:37 AM
I think some of us are becoming like vile fans and think we have a divine right to go back up.

The teams we are playing are used to this division and more importantly the rigours of Saturday then Wednesday games.

To expect to turn up at sheff wed and expect us to batter then is ridiculous as these teams are usually a few points behind us and they are at home.

It sickens me to read comments like this division is dross as it is not, as it has a lot of competitive teams who have spent heavily over the years trying to go up.

The defence is worrying but the positives are we don't throw in the towel and we get that crucial away point to which helps us get the average 2 points per game we need.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 04, 2018, 05:35:51 AM
I think he's clearly a favourite - the two have known each other for years. The very fact he came here from an MLS club at his age says a lot, he wouldn't have got near another Championship club other than ours (I would much rather have Edwards, Leko or Burke start ahead of him) - and I don't think either 3 are fantastic.

Not for me. None of them have any defensive knowledge whatsoever.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on October 04, 2018, 06:41:09 AM
The defending is abysmal and I think it could cost us id Darren Moore doesn't get it addressed in the transfer window.
As dingle don said last night it would be almost impossible to finish in the top two with a goals against like ours.

But I tell you what, we can never be accused of being boring can we.
Keep it going boys
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggies_24 on October 04, 2018, 07:04:35 AM
The defending is abysmal and I think it could cost us id Darren Moore doesn't get it addressed in the transfer window.
As dingle don said last night it would be almost impossible to finish in the top two with a goals against like ours.

But I tell you what, we can never be accused of being boring can we.
Keep it going boys

I like that the boys never gave up last night it shows the character they have and shows we will not be out of many games this season. The defending is very worrying at the moment, to get out of this league you have to go to places like Rotherham on a cold Tuesday night in January & scrape a  2-1 1-0 win even when you haven’t played very well. We managed it the season we went up under Mowbray & Di Matteo at the moment we look as though we have to score a minimum 2 goals in a game to get anything out of it. Certainly not complaining as it’s a breath of fresh air compared to some of the rubbish we’ve been served up the past 3 years but if the current defending isnt improved I can see it costing us down the line.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 04, 2018, 07:55:59 AM
1 defeat in 10 and some want him gone

 :-[

Unbelievable isn't it?

I notice that a few are saying that they are staying quiet on the forum due to the negativity, and I will admit that I have taken a step back. The in play thread makes me smile - there are a few contributors on there who just want to have a go, comments about 'hoof ball' and general negative observations are just a waste of electricity and time.... but some feel compelled to do this from the comfort of their armchair watching a dodgy and illegal stream........

Personally I love whats going on and what Darren has done for the club. Caught us all out with the triple sub last night, and regardless of your thoughts before that we did not look like scoring - after it we nicked a point so go figure. That's why Darren and Graham manage to the team and we all have jobs etc

I don't think that it will take a few keyboard warriors to tell them that our defence is bobbins, they already know.

Can't wait to go to the ground on Saturday.....COYB!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on October 04, 2018, 08:19:38 AM
I like that the boys never gave up last night it shows the character they have and shows we will not be out of many games this season.

The character we show in ganes under Moore is one of the big highlights of his reign so far.

I'll continue to voice my opinion on the aspects I feel we are failing with because this is a discussion forum, not a cheer leading zone, but that doesn't mean I want Moore gone.

It is clear the players will fight all the way for him and that they enjoynplaying for him. We have came back from behind a few times now, especially late in games and that fight is needed to get out of this division.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on October 04, 2018, 08:35:08 AM
I think some of us are becoming like vile fans and think we have a divine right to go back up.

Personally I don't think that's the case at all. I believe it is because people think we have the best squad in the division, despite signing Mears and Bartley, and therefore should be going straight back up because we have the players to do it. Put it another way, with the squad we have compared to the likes of a Sheffield United who now sit above us, would you not be disappointed if we didn't finish top two at the end of the season? I would personally see that as failure given the tools at our disposal.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on October 04, 2018, 08:46:38 AM
I think some of us are becoming like vile fans and think we have a divine right to go back up.

The teams we are playing are used to this division and more importantly the rigours of Saturday then Wednesday games.

To expect to turn up at sheff wed and expect us to batter then is ridiculous as these teams are usually a few points behind us and they are at home.

It sickens me to read comments like this division is dross as it is not, as it has a lot of competitive teams who have spent heavily over the years trying to go up.

The defence is worrying but the positives are we don't throw in the towel and we get that crucial away point to which helps us get the average 2 points per game we need.

I believe the person who wrote that formed his opinion from watching a number of games on tv.
By & large, I agree with him, there are a lot of poor sides in the Championship, but there are also some 6 to 8 sides who all have the potential for automatic promotion. I believe we are among them, but are not outstandingly better than any of them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on October 04, 2018, 08:48:42 AM
I think some of us are becoming like vile fans and think we have a divine right to go back up.



To be honest getting promoted does nothing for me.
Give me the rough and tumble of the Championship every wee.
I have something this season I haven't had for 3 or 4 seasons!
Value for money and entertainment.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on October 04, 2018, 08:51:21 AM
Personally I don't think that's the case at all. I believe it is because people think we have the best squad in the division, despite signing Mears and Bartley, and therefore should be going straight back up because we have the players to do it. Put it another way, with the squad we have compared to the likes of a Sheffield United who now sit above us, would you not be disappointed if we didn't finish top two at the end of the season? I would personally see that as failure given the tools at our disposal.

My feelings haven't changed at all, I think we'll maybe scrape play offs at best, the starting xi has a couple of issues in midfield and at the back, add to those a couple of injuries and suspensions and we could have problems. We've missed Phillips massively in the last couple of games and got away with it. We certainly have no divine right to go up and if we do this squad needs major work as in the main it got us relegated with gutless performances, the 2 bright sparks we have are not ours and neither will be here next season, out of the other 2 regular new signings Johnstone would be fine in the Prem but Bartley from what we've seen so far is not convincing.

I tend to ignore (and usually remove) comments saying we're like vile fans etc etc as it tends to take away anything in that particular post worthwhile.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on October 04, 2018, 08:59:11 AM
My feelings haven't changed at all, I think we'll maybe scrape play offs at best, the starting xi has a couple of issues in midfield and at the back, add to those a couple of injuries and suspensions and we could have problems. We've missed Phillips massively in the last couple of games and got away with it. We certainly have no divine right to go up and if we do this squad needs major work as in the main it got us relegated with gutless performances, the 2 bright sparks we have are not ours and neither will be here next season, out of the other 2 regular new signings Johnstone would be fine in the Prem but Bartley from what we've seen so far is not convincing.

I tend to ignore (and usually remove) comments saying we're like vile fans etc etc as it tends to take away anything in that particular post worthwhile.

Oh I would certainly agree on the promotion front. We would not keep getting away with abject performances like we have this season, we would be punished accordingly by better strikers so there would be some serious work required, but for this season, I do feel that we have the best squad in the division so anything less than top two isn't good enough. I would agree that our failure to bring in cover for Phillips and address the centre of midfield are issues, but there aren't many teams with great midfields in this league so we can get away with it and have done to date thanks to our firepower.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 04, 2018, 09:36:13 AM
I do think that we need to look at bringing in a CB who is comfortable playing out from the back in January, who that is I don't know.

I've read a few comments to the effect that we won't get promoted leaking goals the way we do but we do have a positive goal difference and Huddersfield got promoted, albeit through the play offs, with a negative goal difference so it can happen.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: leeiswba on October 04, 2018, 09:48:26 AM

I tend to ignore (and usually remove) comments saying we're like vile fans etc etc as it tends to take away anything in that particular post worthwhile.

Don’t know mate, I am starting to agree with it.

The reaction after those subs last night was shocking, booing the manager when we were top of the league 2 days ago and the one who brought a bit of pride back to us last season, never mind the fact is he a modern day legend.

Sounds exactly like villa fans to me, don’t know if I just notice it more now but I don’t remember fan turning so quick 10 years ago
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on October 04, 2018, 10:22:10 AM
Don’t know mate, I am starting to agree with it.

The reaction after those subs last night was shocking, booing the manager when we were top of the league 2 days ago and the one who brought a bit of pride back to us last season, never mind the fact is he a modern day legend.

Sounds exactly like villa fans to me, don’t know if I just notice it more now but I don’t remember fan turning so quick 10 years ago

Nothing different to be honest just that these days theres more places like this for those views to be aired.

Point stands people want to start telling others to go down the villa or the wolves may find themselves looking for another forum, does nothing to get debate on here and just ruins what ever else you post. People have a right to air their opinion whether positive or negative without being told to go elsewhere for having a differing view.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: leeiswba on October 04, 2018, 10:40:11 AM
Nothing different to be honest just that these days theres more places like this for those views to be aired.

Point stands people want to start telling others to go down the villa or the wolves may find themselves looking for another forum, does nothing to get debate on here and just ruins what ever else you post. People have a right to air their opinion whether positive or negative without being told to go elsewhere for having a differing view.

Doesn't bother me in the slightest people moaning on here mate and I agree its saft people telling others to go up the Villa, my problem is with the people at the game last night who decided to boo the manager and his decision.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on October 04, 2018, 10:57:38 AM
I think the positives massively outweigh the negatives with Big Dave, biggest one being i actually look forward to games!

I think he has got a lot of things right but its now at the stage to admit the defensive experiment isnt going to work as it is. I know we are the buzz words of 'transition' and 'work in progress' and i think its obvious going forward and our style are testament to that, we have improved massively.

However defensively there is no signs of any real improvement, we are nearly a quarter of the way through the campaign and if anything i would say its got worse, if we had the odd game where we shocking you would say ok but it happens nearly every game, there comes a point to say thats enough.

Its not just that Hegazi, Dawson and Bartley are out of form (which they are) but its the fact they just dont look comfortable with the basics of the role, they all look nervous and this spreads to the keeper too.

Dawson has gone from being one of our most consistent performers in the league above to a shell of the player he was, i am not Hegazi's biggest fan but he has his strengths yet at the moment he is an accident waiting to happen and watching Bartley on those surges is painful to watch at times.

I dont blame the players too much, i said at the start of the season i didnt see why a midfielder should need to drop and take the ball off them two yards away as the defenders at that level should be able to pass and carry a ball forward. I got that badly wrong, i do find it staggering that multi million pound footballers do struggle to pass and control a ball more than 10 yards but they clearly do.

If the long term plan was going to be playing out from the back then i do wonder why on earth we signed Bartley, if you want a stereotypical championship centre half who will head and kick anything, you sign Bartley. If you want somebody to keep possession and build from the back, you dont sign Bartley.

I love the you score 2 we score 3 in theory but if you want to win promotion which i assume we do, then there has to be a balance, you have to give yourself a chance with a clean sheet, we dont get out of bed unless we concede at least 1 and lately its more and more conceding 2's, its just not sustainable, you dont actually win anything when you defend as bad as we do, no matter how good your strikers are.

We dont have the defensive personnel to play the way Mooro and Jones want to play, i think revert back to what our defenders strengths are, style and formation wise for now then look to sign players who suit ball playing and 3 at the back.

We have tried something new, it hasnt worked for now, it happens to all coaches, learn from it, change it and move on.

At home i fancy us to blitz anyone and i would put half the premier league teams in with that too, away from home its very different. Big Dave said before the game last night it was all about the performance, he didnt really get that and its happened quite often away so maybe the time is to say, okay how we are setting up / approaching games away isnt working, you cant play well every game but we havent really played well away from home at all so again learn from it, change it and move on!

I have no idea if Big Dave got lucky with the subs last night or if it was tactical genius or panic subs, i like to see the positives and give the benefit of the doubt and with what he has achieved i would like to think it was the plan all along, something he has also added is the never give up attitude, players want to play for him, he is implementing a style we all want to see, as a fan i have said what i think we could improve but my job isnt on the line here but the biggest thing he has done is added pride back to our club, after the last few years of being classed as anti football, a bit of joke club last year, we now have the pride back and i put that down to one man - Darren Moore.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on October 04, 2018, 11:17:06 AM
We are still in a transistional peroid

If we was to sack Moore would set us back even more.

The players are fighting for Moore. We need that
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on October 04, 2018, 11:25:28 AM
I think the positives massively outweigh the negatives with Big Dave, biggest one being i actually look forward to games!

I think he has got a lot of things right but its now at the stage to admit the defensive experiment isnt going to work as it is. I know we are the buzz words of 'transition' and 'work in progress' and i think its obvious going forward and our style are testament to that, we have improved massively.

However defensively there is no signs of any real improvement, we are nearly a quarter of the way through the campaign and if anything i would say its got worse, if we had the odd game where we shocking you would say ok but it happens nearly every game, there comes a point to say thats enough.

Its not just that Hegazi, Dawson and Bartley are out of form (which they are) but its the fact they just dont look comfortable with the basics of the role, they all look nervous and this spreads to the keeper too.

Dawson has gone from being one of our most consistent performers in the league above to a shell of the player he was, i am not Hegazi's biggest fan but he has his strengths yet at the moment he is an accident waiting to happen and watching Bartley on those surges is painful to watch at times.

I dont blame the players too much, i said at the start of the season i didnt see why a midfielder should need to drop and take the ball off them two yards away as the defenders at that level should be able to pass and carry a ball forward. I got that badly wrong, i do find it staggering that multi million pound footballers do struggle to pass and control a ball more than 10 yards but they clearly do.

If the long term plan was going to be playing out from the back then i do wonder why on earth we signed Bartley, if you want a stereotypical championship centre half who will head and kick anything, you sign Bartley. If you want somebody to keep possession and build from the back, you dont sign Bartley.

I love the you score 2 we score 3 in theory but if you want to win promotion which i assume we do, then there has to be a balance, you have to give yourself a chance with a clean sheet, we dont get out of bed unless we concede at least 1 and lately its more and more conceding 2's, its just not sustainable, you dont actually win anything when you defend as bad as we do, no matter how good your strikers are.

We dont have the defensive personnel to play the way Mooro and Jones want to play, i think revert back to what our defenders strengths are, style and formation wise for now then look to sign players who suit ball playing and 3 at the back.

We have tried something new, it hasnt worked for now, it happens to all coaches, learn from it, change it and move on.

At home i fancy us to blitz anyone and i would put half the premier league teams in with that too, away from home its very different. Big Dave said before the game last night it was all about the performance, he didnt really get that and its happened quite often away so maybe the time is to say, okay how we are setting up / approaching games away isnt working, you cant play well every game but we havent really played well away from home at all so again learn from it, change it and move on!

I have no idea if Big Dave got lucky with the subs last night or if it was tactical genius or panic subs, i like to see the positives and give the benefit of the doubt and with what he has achieved i would like to think it was the plan all along, something he has also added is the never give up attitude, players want to play for him, he is implementing a style we all want to see, as a fan i have said what i think we could improve but my job isnt on the line here but the biggest thing he has done is added pride back to our club, after the last few years of being classed as anti football, a bit of joke club last year, we now have the pride back and i put that down to one man - Darren Moore.


We don't have the personnel to play the way we are playing you say BUT we are one point off the top of the league and since Jones's arrival we have lost one game a last minute handball goal vs Middlesbrough.

We clearly do have the players to play this way but it's an education for fans because we all grew up on four at the back and building from a solid defence. The game has evolved though and some fans perceptions haven't.

Yes of course we need to improve at the back  no denying that but people threw the same criticisms at Man City two seasons ago that we are getting now. It takes time but we're clearly doing a lot right and getting results.

The game nowadays favours attacking teams particularly in league formats. In cups or over a short period of time teams can succeed by being more pragmatic, France in the world cup is a good example but over a large number of games the Man City's, the Liverpool's, the Barcelona's come out on top.

We're doing OK and the three at the back gives us so much more flexibility going forward. I love it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: miggybaggy on October 04, 2018, 11:41:46 AM
We are still in a transistional peroid

If we was to sack Moore would set us back even more.

The players are fighting for Moore. We need that

Exactly. I said on the after match debate thread, just look at the reaction from Barnes following his equaliser when he ran to the fans. We'd never have come back from two down away from home in the last couple of seasons, and that's all down to Moore's man management.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on October 04, 2018, 11:45:53 AM
I don't see how anyone can watch that defence and think "yeah, we have the players to play this way".  Our attack, and the best part of that attack we don't even own, are bailing us out.  Can they do it for the entire season?  Who knows.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KYA on October 04, 2018, 12:11:51 PM
Yes, the defence isn't perfect but the greatest thing missing from our team is a box to box midfielder it's the midfield which is causing us problems especially when playing away.
 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on October 04, 2018, 12:12:01 PM
Our attack is bailing our defence out at the moment, you shouldnt need to score 2 goals to get at least a point.

Our defenders are out and out defenders, they are not ball playing defenders, they have probably spent their entire careers heading and kicking everything, they are now being being asked to play in a completely different way and they just dont look comfortable, if there were signs of improvement then you stick with it, but they arent improving and with each game they are turning into poorer versions of the players they were.

You wouldnt ask Brunt to start playing as a tough tackling hatchet man centre midfielder, you wouldnt ask Barry to be your box to box midfielder, you wouldnt ask Robson Kanu to play the number 10 creative centre forward role, its not what they do or what they are good at in that role, yet we are asking 3 no nonsense centre halves to be our starting point of keeping possession and starting attacks, when the reality is they are struggling with even the basics of organisation let alone passing the ball and bringing it out of defence, it just isnt their game, play to the strengths and they will look good defenders again.

Teams dont cut us open, they dont have to work that hard , we tend to just gift them chances from our own basic errors, usually passing the ball to them on a regular basis or the defenders having a breakdown in communication, we have conceded one of the highest amounts in the league.

Get Hegazi, Dawson and Bartley back doing what they are good at for now, then gradually (probably starting january) sign defenders who can play the way that Moore and Jones want us too, Rome werent built in a day!

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on October 04, 2018, 12:41:37 PM
On reflection I am in complete agreement with Oldbury WBA's response to my post on negativity last night.  It is the diverse nature of opinion, both positive and negative, on a forum like this that makes it interesting and will keep me posting.  However, I don't think anybody is suggesting that posters would be better off at the Villa or Wolves, or even that negative comments should be discouraged.   It's just that it doesn't seem the Albion way as I know it!  I will get back to Darren Moore but to explain what I mean.....

I was born in Oldbury in the 70's but too late in the decade to have seen or even remember the real glory years in yellow and green.   Unfortunately, I was just old enough (a year is a long time when your a diddler) to be aware of Villa's European cup win and remember the number of Claret and Blue shirts that turned up at school after that.  That win gave all Villa fans I knew an arrogance and sense of superiority that held good for three decades.....and still seems to be instilled.  How can the tenure of a man like Bruce be ended by a cabbage!!  Funny yep......but at least Gould got the dignity of a coffin.   

Prior to the arrival of SGM my best days as an Albion fan were the Swansea semi-final at home and Ossie's day at Wembley...around that was a load of pooh to be honest.  How can you become arrogant and carry expectation with that background.   So I've been grateful to Sir Gary, the Celtic Judas (he's now forgiven) RDM, Uncle Roy and even SC for our promotions and subsequent success in the PL.  Then AP :( TP arrived; Peace wanted his investment protecting, football died and I lost the love.....nuff said.   Ignoring AP, we end up with Darren Moore and pride is restored but not our Premiership status. 

So we are now back at the level I know best with a manger who is a club legend, a fully qualified coach but first time manager learning on the job, one of our own from just down the road, playing ridiculously attacking football, using free transfers and not out of choice, who is great friends with one of the best coaches in the country, has an eye for real young talent (Barnes is REAL talent), a good man motivator (Dawson) and well liked within the game.  We are top scorers in the league, and even top for a few days!!  Good football, pride restored and as an aside West Brom just happen to have taken a punt on one of the few black managers in the country (a little nod back to our heritage).

And yet there are still the odd posters who seem unhappy with his appointment and are even now ready to call for his head?  I am probably just misreading the posts, just as it is easy to misread the intonation in texts and emails.   This is probably just in game frustration coming from a desire to win and do well, and wanting what's best for the Albion!!  However, this is not the Albion way I know and not the way of my Albion mates I spoke to this morning.... but I DO agree it does make the forum interesting and enjoyable to take part in, in a way a good old love-in would not.   I look forward to the "heated debates" when we do have that inevitable run of poor results.   

Apologies if my posts go on a bit........

 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on October 04, 2018, 01:26:15 PM
It would be interesting to see the style of play and tactics particularly defensively had Moore chose Appleton or someone else as his assistant. Jones obviously has a big say in what happens .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tylerm on October 04, 2018, 01:46:37 PM
Our defence is looking aweful at the moment and I agree that they are not comfortable at playing the ball out. However they are not helped by having 2 central midfielders who don't offer them a pass and if they do, they pass it straight back to them
Whether they are comfortable on the ball or nor, 3 or 4 at the back would have made no difference to the goals conceded last night. We knew Wednesday had scored many goals from outside the box so we let their best player have a free shot from 20 yards out. He was never closed down. The second was a joke and the fact they cant pass the ball to each other made no difference
Keep with 3 at the back, but look for better quality but please sort out that centre midfield. Anyone notice Brunts best moment came from a cross from the wing. If we want to shoehorn Brunt into the side we should have played him instead of Mears for the last 2 games.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on October 04, 2018, 01:47:05 PM
It would be interesting to see the style of play and tactics particularly defensively had Moore chose Appleton or someone else as his assistant. Jones obviously has a big say in what happens .

Jones is key to it all....coached at PL level with success and at the world cup with Belgium.  Would not have come here were it not for his friendship with Darren Moore.  They have both said that they share the same footballing philosophies, but Darren Moore has no experience of implementing ideas wheras GJ has a decade of it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on October 04, 2018, 02:50:21 PM
Moore was the one who wanted to change the style. If he hadn't we wouldn't of appointed jones.

Sack Moore and we lose jones and end up having to change things again
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on October 04, 2018, 03:08:23 PM
we have bucked trends in the past, can we PLEASE buck one more, no sacking manager / coach for a min of 3 years - lets have some stability and BUILD for success, not demand instant gratification.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on October 04, 2018, 03:12:23 PM
I am not on facebook, etc but there cant be many who actually do want Moore sacked can there?!

I know people say stupid things heat of the moment but i would struggle of one reason to sack him! He is doing a very good job since he got it temporary, i think most think we could improve certain things but we are all football managers from our seats!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on October 04, 2018, 03:13:32 PM
The word "sack" should not be anywhere near Moore.

Like many, including notable media folk and even Bomber, I was surprised at his withdrawal of our two best strikers for HRK and a midfielder when we were trailing. His subs in general this season have been fairly confusing, but his overall approach and set up is fantastic.

If we keep up this pace we'll be there or there abouts come the end of the season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on October 04, 2018, 03:25:35 PM
Who's talking about sacking Moore?

With his record since he's been in charge there is zero chance of him being sacked and rightly so. I might not agree with everything he does but to even think about him getting sacked is mind blowing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on October 04, 2018, 03:33:38 PM
Who's talking about sacking Moore?

With his record since he's been in charge there is zero chance of him being sacked and rightly so. I might not agree with everything he does but to even think about him getting sacked is mind blowing.
no one, it was mentioned that Jones is here because of Dave, if Moore was sacked then Jones would leave too.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on October 04, 2018, 03:38:03 PM
no one, it was mentioned that Jones is here because of Dave, if Moore was sacked then Jones would leave too.


Oh Ok.

That usually happens when a head coach is sacked the backroom staff often go as well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on October 04, 2018, 03:42:06 PM

Oh Ok.

That usually happens when a head coach is sacked the backroom staff often go as well.

Didn't happen here for a spell until Pulis came in, it was partly the reason that some became too comfortable leading us to need Pulis in the first place.

Not sure why anyone would want Moore sacked, he's doing a decent job, still a couple of things that need looking at but overall don't see how anyone can want him out
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KYA on October 04, 2018, 05:58:55 PM
I am not on facebook, etc but there cant be many who actually do want Moore sacked can there?!

I know people say stupid things heat of the moment but i would struggle of one reason to sack him! He is doing a very good job since he got it temporary, i think most think we could improve certain things but we are all football managers from our seats!
One bloke on here has been on   Big Dave back from day one and he is starting to get on my nerves he never has anything positive to say about the team I can't help thinking he is a dingle or vile on the quiet.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on October 04, 2018, 08:10:01 PM
There is no way on this Earth that any Albion fan should be calling for Moore's dismissal even if things were going a lot worse than they are.

I also don't entirely buy the wait until we have a squad that is hand picked to play in the way Moore wants to play because that day may never come besides which what do you do in the meantime? . The squad is no more equipped to play any other style we don't have a natural target man so we are forced to play through the midfield  yes we could change our shape and personnel but at some point to get the benefit of the fire power we have to get the ball down on the deck and get the strikers into the box with the ball to feet.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: section5 on October 04, 2018, 10:24:12 PM
Theres just one major issue and that's the defence.  Hegazi is so dodgy and Bartley can't be a second on the pitch without grabbing someone's shirt or commiting silly fouls. We've got the players in the mid to find the right formula but it's really a throwback to the Mowbray era, shall we see if Martis or Meite are up for a game haha. On a serious note I really wish big Dave the best and will him to do well but the defence is a real issue and I'd like to see Field starting more
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VVVAlbion on October 04, 2018, 10:35:10 PM
It doesn't matter how many you concede at the  end of the day so long as you win most of your home games and at least draw most of your away games. We are doing that and we are doing that with a defense that can only really improve .

 In respect of DM and his subs yesterday,  hands up I was baffled by them, but with hindsight it was a fantastic call as the moves strenghend midfield, giving freedom to Barnes , and pushed Brunt wide to provide the service.

Plus it is better than Pulis

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on October 04, 2018, 10:45:50 PM
Think we were lucky yesterday to grab a draw and need to sort out defense because you can't keep expecting forwards to keep getting you out of trouble. Bartley is the weak link in a pourous defence and should either be sidelined or moved to his preferred right side of three. The midfield nerds to offer more for players coming out with ball which is causing lots of problems, Brunt is the weakling in Central midfield and should not be in there. Wednesday didn't open us up it was misplaced passing that led to goals.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on October 05, 2018, 03:19:59 AM
Theres just one major issue and that's the defence.  Hegazi is so dodgy and Bartley can't be a second on the pitch without grabbing someone's shirt or commiting silly fouls. We've got the players in the mid to find the right formula but it's really a throwback to the Mowbray era, shall we see if Martis or Meite are up for a game haha. On a serious note I really wish big Dave the best and will him to do well but the defence is a real issue and I'd like to see Field starting more

I said before that this team was like mogga's team that went up in 2008 and after 11 games it had 17 points and scored 24 and conceded 14 and ended up champions with 88 scored and 55 conceded. That 11 game goals for and against is very similar.

Wasn't Meite only in the prem though?

I think it was bostin cesar and occasionally Pele too.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on October 05, 2018, 03:32:31 AM
Nothing different to be honest just that these days theres more places like this for those views to be aired.

Point stands people want to start telling others to go down the villa or the wolves may find themselves looking for another forum, does nothing to get debate on here and just ruins what ever else you post. People have a right to air their opinion whether positive or negative without being told to go elsewhere for having a differing view.

I wouldn't ever tell our fans to become vile or dingle fans and go there.

Maybe it's expectation after 8 years in prem or just modern day impatience and the prevalence of social media but, a draw at sheff wed and one behind top spot wasn't treated like it was under the first promotion under God Gary.

I heard on the radio the other day that because of guardiola every fan wants there team to play passing/attacking football.

It's all about opinions and mine is that it's all about the wins and everything else is a bonus.

I have never left a game we've lost 3:2 thinking that was a great game and I don't mind losing.

In fact some of the best times supporting the Albion were under Meggo and his one nils.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on October 05, 2018, 07:08:20 AM
Darren Moore has just been named Skybet Championship Manager of the month.

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/october/duo-scoop-september-awards/
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on October 05, 2018, 07:38:07 AM
Well done Darren! ...just hope we get the win to match on Saturday, as I recall on previous occasions when an Albion Manager has won MOM we have lost the next game.... But we should have enough in the tank.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 05, 2018, 07:49:45 AM
A well deserved award. It hasn't all been anything like plain sailing for him, but he is a rookie manager/head coach with a new way of playing that has got a basket case of a club more settled and the team to the very top end of a difficult division. Early days I know but the signs are good.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KYA on October 05, 2018, 08:50:11 AM
On reflection I am in complete agreement with Oldbury WBA's response to my post on negativity last night.  It is the diverse nature of opinion, both positive and negative, on a forum like this that makes it interesting and will keep me posting.  However, I don't think anybody is suggesting that posters would be better off at the Villa or Wolves, or even that negative comments should be discouraged.   It's just that it doesn't seem the Albion way as I know it!  I will get back to Darren Moore but to explain what I mean.....

I was born in Oldbury in the 70's but too late in the decade to have seen or even remember the real glory years in yellow and green.   Unfortunately, I was just old enough (a year is a long time when your a diddler) to be aware of Villa's European cup win and remember the number of Claret and Blue shirts that turned up at school after that.  That win gave all Villa fans I knew an arrogance and sense of superiority that held good for three decades.....and still seems to be instilled.  How can the tenure of a man like Bruce be ended by a cabbage!!  Funny yep......but at least Gould got the dignity of a coffin.   

Prior to the arrival of SGM my best days as an Albion fan were the Swansea semi-final at home and Ossie's day at Wembley...around that was a load of S***e to be honest.  How can you become arrogant and carry expectation with that background.   So I've been grateful to Sir Gary, the Celtic Judas (he's now forgiven) RDM, Uncle Roy and even SC for our promotions and subsequent success in the PL.  Then AP :( TP arrived; Peace wanted his investment protecting, football died and I lost the love.....nuff said.   Ignoring AP, we end up with Darren Moore and pride is restored but not our Premiership status. 

So we are now back at the level I know best with a manger who is a club legend, a fully qualified coach but first time manager learning on the job, one of our own from just down the road, playing ridiculously attacking football, using free transfers and not out of choice, who is great friends with one of the best coaches in the country, has an eye for real young talent (Barnes is REAL talent), a good man motivator (Dawson) and well liked within the game.  We are top scorers in the league, and even top for a few days!!  Good football, pride restored and as an aside West Brom just happen to have taken a punt on one of the few black managers in the country (a little nod back to our heritage).

And yet there are still the odd posters who seem unhappy with his appointment and are even now ready to call for his head?  I am probably just misreading the posts, just as it is easy to misread the intonation in texts and emails.   This is probably just in game frustration coming from a desire to win and do well, and wanting what's best for the Albion!!  However, this is not the Albion way I know and not the way of my Albion mates I spoke to this morning.... but I DO agree it does make the forum interesting and enjoyable to take part in, in a way a good old love-in would not.   I look forward to the "heated debates" when we do have that inevitable run of poor results.   

Apologies if my posts go on a bit........

Cracking post mate.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on October 05, 2018, 09:31:39 AM
I said before that this team was like mogga's team that went up in 2008 and after 11 games it had 17 points and scored 24 and conceded 14 and ended up champions with 88 scored and 55 conceded. That 11 game goals for and against is very similar.

Wasn't Meite only in the prem though?

I think it was bostin cesar and occasionally Pele too.

No. He signed for us in the Prem' under Mowbray, stayed following relegation and played a part in our Championship promotion season under RDM. Wasn't used in the Prem' return League wise until Hodgson succeeded RDM and then put it some surprisingly good performances, most notably against Stoke from memory.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on October 05, 2018, 09:41:34 AM
He’s only had what? 3 months of competitive football as a manager and already has two MOTM awards, pretty decent return that!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on October 05, 2018, 09:48:31 AM
Hasn't got a clue though according to some..

Can't remember last time we had a due who won.
Roy/odemwingie?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on October 05, 2018, 10:20:56 AM
He’s only had what? 3 months of competitive football as a manager and already has two MOTM awards, pretty decent return that!!

But remember he has not got a clue. Pure luck. ???
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BigFrank20 on October 05, 2018, 11:13:16 AM
I would suspect this one from the in game chat is the one we all remember and find a little bit 'disturbing'?
Gayle and Rodriguez off?! Get out Moore, this is ridiculous
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KYA on October 05, 2018, 11:36:44 AM
I would suspect this one from the in game chat is the one we all remember and find a little bit 'disturbing'?
Gayle and Rodriguez off?! Get out Moore, this is ridiculous
Some of the anti-Moore comments are disgusting I dread to think what these so-called fans will be like when we have a rocky patch.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on October 05, 2018, 11:56:55 AM
No. He signed for us in the Prem' under Mowbray, stayed following relegation and played a part in our Championship promotion season under RDM. Wasn't used in the Prem' return League wise until Hodgson succeeded RDM and then put it some surprisingly good performances, most notably against Stoke from memory.

I.thought you were saying that Martis and meiti were in the 2008  promotion team. I meant wasn't meiti bought in the prem.

I remember volmer, Moore and Gilchrist for the first promotion under god Gary.

But, wasn't sure about 2008.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on October 05, 2018, 12:14:15 PM
 i just re-read the Sheff Wed in game chat and with the benefit of hindsight its hilarious.

My absolute favourite is this gem

Also, we are 40 yards from their goal. Unless we expect Barnes to run 40 yards with the ball, how exactly do we get in behind.

Got the lottery numbers please ???
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on October 05, 2018, 12:55:20 PM
The one thing that kind of surprises me is that for all Moore's massive qualities, with the best will in the world he was never a twinkle toed footballer himself, so why is he expecting 3 old fashioned center halves to manage such a change of style??  I'm just wondering if it comes more from Jones/Belgium?

You can see the logic though, if teams are thinking "right we'll press hard they've only got three at the back so they'll be open out wide", then they are going to leave gaps elsewhere for us to exploit.

Mind you, I don't think anyone will be telling Hegazi to carry on with the Cruyff turns in the six yard box. >:(
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on October 05, 2018, 01:28:02 PM
Darren Moore has just been named Skybet Championship Manager of the month.

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/october/duo-scoop-september-awards/

I'm happy he's got it, it's deserved on results. However...

His awards and his results as head coach shouldn't shield him from any and all criticism. But they should be taken into account when discussing his faults. It's a nuanced discussion, and the internet doesn't lend itself to nuance - especially Twitter, where an opinion has to be conveyed in a small amount of characters. So you say you're for something, and you're immediately against something else, even if you didn't say that.

Moore has had a terrific start as head coach, and deserves the plaudits for reinvigorating a team and fanbase that had found themselves drifting. However that should not stop constructive criticism of the way he sets his defence up, or the rate that we're conceding goals; if either of our loan stars get called back or injured, we're in trouble, and we need to sort it out sooner rather than later.

I think any talk of the sack is peoples comments taken out of context, at least on here. But we need to be able to have a grown up discussion about his merits and shortcomings.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on October 05, 2018, 01:54:27 PM
I think the situation is pretty simple really,
1. look at the squad,
2. identify where are the strengths / weaknesses,
3. formulate a plan to maximise the strengths (attack) and limit the weaknesses (defence / age) of available resources ability to the best of their ability
4. Start solidly, as opposition tires deploy more creativity to exploit oppos tiredness

In parallel
a) build off field strength with objective of maximising what we have and
b) Plan for addressing weaknesses identified above (and developing) when window opens.

Simples this football mullarkey.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on October 05, 2018, 02:23:09 PM
i just re-read the Sheff Wed in game chat and with the benefit of hindsight its hilarious.

My absolute favourite is this gem

Also, we are 40 yards from their goal. Unless we expect Barnes to run 40 yards with the ball, how exactly do we get in behind.

Got the lottery numbers please ???

 :D That was me. Couldn't believe it when minutes later he did exactly that though. Although it did kind of prove my point.

I stand by it though. The subs were crazy and if Barnes hadn't done that, I am certain there would have been more people saying how strange they were.

I do like to think I am quite balanced though. I still think DM tenure will end badly, but talk of sacking him is stupid. Having given him the chance, we have to back him. It is hard to place all the issues with the squad and selection at his feet too as he hasn't been able to make his mark yet.

There is a lot to improve though or we will not compete with the top two, and my frustration comes from the fact it doesn't seem to be getting any better. If that was because I thought we were incapable I would be more accepting, but I genuinely feel we are capable of much much better.



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on October 05, 2018, 02:28:19 PM
:D That was me. Couldn't believe it when minutes later he did exactly that though. Although it did kind of prove my point.

I stand by it though. The subs were crazy and if Barnes hadn't done that, I am certain there would have been more people saying how strange they were.

I do like to think I am quite balanced though. I still think DM tenure will end badly, but talk of sacking him is stupid. Having given him the chance, we have to back him. It is hard to place all the issues with the squad and selection at his feet too as he hasn't been able to make his mark yet.

There is a lot to improve though or we will not compete with the top two, and my frustration comes from the fact it doesn't seem to be getting any better. If that was because I thought we were incapable I would be more accepting, but I genuinely feel we are capable of much much better.

As i said with the benefit of hindsight, BTW whats the score tomorrow ???  ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on October 05, 2018, 03:06:37 PM
As i said with the benefit of hindsight, BTW whats the score tomorrow ???  ;D

Our second clean sheet. 3-0!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 05, 2018, 03:13:12 PM
There was always plenty of Pulis fans saying he needed loads of transfer windows to shape the team as he wanted it. I fully expect those same people to give Moore that same time. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on October 05, 2018, 03:50:04 PM
we have bucked trends in the past, can we PLEASE buck one more, no sacking manager / coach for a min of 3 years - lets have some stability and BUILD for success, not demand instant gratification.

I’d have loved that, but our transfer business has made that a no-go. Whether it was the decision of Moore, or he had his hands tied, we’ve gone very short-term with our recruitment yet again. Fail to get promoted this season and we’re in a mess, Gayle and Barnes won’t be here next season and almost all of the current squad will be 29+ years old or released.

It’s not like we’ve signed a bunch of kids and we’re relying on our academy graduates, where it’s obvious that we’re trying to build something and the fans can get behind a longer-term project. The club’s recruitment screams they want instant results, so that’s what I’m looking for. If Moore doesn’t get us promoted he’s failed.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on October 05, 2018, 04:44:29 PM
I.thought you were saying that Martis and meiti were in the 2008  promotion team. I meant wasn't meiti bought in the prem.

I remember volmer, Moore and Gilchrist for the first promotion under god Gary.

But, wasn't sure about 2008.

I wasn't saying anything in the first instance as you weren't quoting me  ;D .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on October 05, 2018, 05:00:51 PM
I’d have loved that, but our transfer business has made that a no-go. Whether it was the decision of Moore, or he had his hands tied, we’ve gone very short-term with our recruitment yet again. Fail to get promoted this season and we’re in a mess, Gayle and Barnes won’t be here next season and almost all of the current squad will be 29+ years old or released.

It’s not like we’ve signed a bunch of kids and we’re relying on our academy graduates, where it’s obvious that we’re trying to build something and the fans can get behind a longer-term project. The club’s recruitment screams they want instant results, so that’s what I’m looking for. If Moore doesn’t get us promoted he’s failed.

As much as people will cite this as more negativity, you are 100% right.

All of the sunmer decisions and everything Moore has done so far screams short term.

From our signings to our squad selections and our decisions to keep 5 under 22's in our reserves rather than loaning them out, no decision so far has been taken with a view to the following seasons and future planning.

Moore needs instant success this year or we will be in trouble.

Now in Moore's defence, he has us 1 point off the top after a quarter of the season and ahead of both of the relegated teams. He also got it spot on with the Gayle and Rondon swap (I hold my hands up as having doubts about that deal but he was 100% right).

The players he has brought in for this season's challenge are exactly what we need to make an instant return, butnif he fails we can't use the excuse of "we can't judge until he has had time to shape the squad" because his decision hasn't been to build a project. We have gone down the Stoke route and not the Swansea route (albeit Moore has done it so much better that Rowett so far while playing better football).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on October 05, 2018, 06:51:19 PM
Everything is short term now mate,
Players,coaches and managers.
On average 2 or 3 years max.
What is long term?
Enjoy while you can everything comes in cycles.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KYA on October 05, 2018, 07:01:49 PM
Everything is short term now mate,
Players,coaches and managers.
On average 2 or 3 years max.
What is long term?
Enjoy while you can everything comes in cycles.

Fans want instant success is it any wonder managers only look at short term.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on October 05, 2018, 07:08:58 PM
There was always plenty of Pulis fans saying he needed loads of transfer windows to shape the team as he wanted it. I fully expect those same people to give Moore that same time.

Indeed. Likewise those saying Pulis hasn't done enough to bring in better players after 1 or 2 Windows will also aim the same criticism at Darren Moore.  Pulis would have got slaughtered if he put the team out that Moore did in the cup and lost.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on October 05, 2018, 08:17:43 PM
If we don't go up who's to say that Darren Moore and the new DF won't use the remaining parachute money to buy young, upcoming talent and build again.  If we go up with this squad we may be back for a period of yo-yoing again anyway. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wbastrollers on October 05, 2018, 08:44:02 PM
If we don't go up who's to say that Darren Moore and the new DF won't use the remaining parachute money to buy young, upcoming talent and build again.  If we go up with this squad we may be back for a period of yo-yoing again anyway.

If we don’t go up this season, it is highly unlikely that DM will get that opportunity.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on October 05, 2018, 09:18:02 PM
Regardless of what happens this season next season will require a massive update to the squad. At least in the prem there's money to do it, if we are relying on more parachute payments it will be incredibly tough.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on October 05, 2018, 10:07:47 PM
If we don’t go up this season, it is highly unlikely that DM will get that opportunity.

Unless the backside completely falls out of our season i just can't see it.   Surely you would back him to go again.   But then i guess things can change quickly in this game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wbastrollers on October 05, 2018, 10:24:18 PM
Unless the backside completely falls out of our season i just can't see it.   Surely you would back him to go again.   But then i guess things can change quickly in this game.

The way we finished last season and continue the rest of this season, I would not have to make that decision, because we would have been promoted and Darren would be hailed as truly the ‘Espirito Santo’
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on October 06, 2018, 10:11:21 AM
I think within the club there is an understanding that we are going through a fairly substantial change in culture and playing style and I would hope that Darren is given the time to see that process through. That means he has to be given at least another season almost regardless of how this season turns out. I don't think any other outcome is fair.

 I believe that this squad is capable of making the play-offs but it is going to be broken up at the end of the season regardless of which Division we find ourselves in. I remember posters commenting on Pulis being given time to bring his players in although I might have not been that sympathetic to that argument because no coach starts with a blank sheet of paper and a measure of a coaches ability is getting the best out of what they have got rather than hand picking talent to match their style. However if that argument has any validity then Darren needs to be given the same latitude.

I would argue that had club appointed a quick fix manager (like Steve Bruce) bet the house on getting out of the division at the first attempt then the whole dynamic is different. Either the manager is delivering or they aren't. If results aren't going your way fire the manager while there is still enough of the season for the next quick fix manager to come in and turn things round. However we did not do that so Darren needs to be given time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on October 06, 2018, 11:32:17 AM
I think within the club there is an understanding that we are going through a fairly substantial change in culture and playing style and I would hope that Darren is given the time to see that process through. That means he has to be given at least another season almost regardless of how this season turns out. I don't think any other outcome is fair.

 I believe that this squad is capable of making the play-offs but it is going to be broken up at the end of the season regardless of which Division we find ourselves in. I remember posters commenting on Pulis being given time to bring his players in although I might have not been that sympathetic to that argument because no coach starts with a blank sheet of paper and a measure of a coaches ability is getting the best out of what they have got rather than hand picking talent to match their style. However if that argument has any validity then Darren needs to be given the same latitude.

I would argue that had club appointed a quick fix manager (like Steve Bruce) bet the house on getting out of the division at the first attempt then the whole dynamic is different. Either the manager is delivering or they aren't. If results aren't going your way fire the manager while there is still enough of the season for the next quick fix manager to come in and turn things round. However we did not do that so Darren needs to be given time.

I agree in essence with what you said in that Moore needs to be given time.  I think what DM brings is honesty, integrity, passion, motivation, team ethic and all round good nature.  I would hazard a guess that Graham Jones is having a lot of impact with game awareness and tactics.  You do wonder how “bright” many of the British managers actually are and to what level of detail they go into the game generally.  For instance, you can imagine Guardiola just being a naturally intelligent person.

One thing I don’t agree on is why should we set the bar at Top6?  We have players with vast experience.  I reckon the captures of Hoolahan / Sako will prove to be inspired and no other Championship clubs have done this.  I think we should be aiming to win the league.  Who is there to scare us?  No one is being deluded it’s important to be confident.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wbastrollers on October 06, 2018, 12:37:38 PM
I agree in essence with what you said in that Moore needs to be given time.  I think what DM brings is honesty, integrity, passion, motivation, team ethic and all round good nature.  I would hazard a guess that Graham Jones is having a lot of impact with game awareness and tactics.  You do wonder how “bright” many of the British managers actually are and to what level of detail they go into the game generally.  For instance, you can imagine Guardiola just being a naturally intelligent person.

One thing I don’t agree on is why should we set the bar at Top6?  We have players with vast experience.  I reckon the captures of Hoolahan / Sako will prove to be inspired and no other Championship clubs have done this.  I think we should be aiming to win the league.  Who is there to scare us?  No one is being deluded it’s important to be confident.
I think we should be aiming to win the league.  Who is there to scare us?
Bartley & Mears!?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 06, 2018, 04:58:18 PM
Fantastic once again from Moore who got the team going after half time. He also managed to avoid the manager of the month jinx.

Hopefully get more training into the back 3, get the team rested and get philips and Sako in the squad for the next game.

Superb stuff.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: alex1 on October 06, 2018, 05:59:51 PM
Just heard a stat that we have, at the beginning of October, scored as many goals as we managed the whole of last season under Pulis/Pardew.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Chipperfan on October 06, 2018, 06:27:29 PM
Just heard a stat that we have, at the beginning of October, scored as many goals as we managed the whole of last season under Pulis/Pardew.

Incredible isn’t it? And when our forward play clicks it’s wonderful to watch. Exhilarating football from Albion.

Thank you Darren.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on October 06, 2018, 06:34:54 PM
Well done big Dave you are doing a tremendous job.

Bringing in your longtime friend Jones was a masterstroke when  Appleton was being mooted by the media.

I was worried about the full-time appointment as I always want any new manager to have earnt out top job with at least 2 promotions under his belt, but he is doing great under very bad circumstances, as I don't believe he ever thought he'd be scratching around for players in their late 30's for his squad when he got the job.

Hopefully, Jenkins sorts out the finances and dowling sorts out some good scouts and we have some gems lined up in January to boost us in what hopefully will be a final push then.

Maybe Ayling swap for Bartley, who they like at Leeds and Mckenna from the dons if dekka does us a good deal.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on October 06, 2018, 08:05:00 PM

One thing I don’t agree on is why should we set the bar at Top6?  We have players with vast experience.  I reckon the captures of Hoolahan / Sako will prove to be inspired and no other Championship clubs have done this.  I think we should be aiming to win the league.  Who is there to scare us?  No one is being deluded it’s important to be confident.

In short the Championship is possibly the most competitive league in world football played over 46 games with relatively thin squads. I therefore would n't burden any team or manager with a benchmark of automatic promotion as a baseline. Top 6 is  reasonable and obviously that does include the 2 automatic promotion spots but there is a degree of luck involved and while it be wrong to suggest that luck will be the key determent those promoted won't be unlucky for sure.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on October 06, 2018, 08:40:40 PM
Well done big Dave you are doing a tremendous job.

Bringing in your longtime friend Jones was a masterstroke when  Appleton was being mooted by the media.

I was worried about the full-time appointment as I always want any new manager to have earnt out top job with at least 2 promotions under his belt, but he is doing great under very bad circumstances, as I don't believe he ever thought he'd be scratching around for players in their late 30's for his squad when he got the job.

Hopefully, Jenkins sorts out the finances and dowling sorts out some good scouts and we have some gems lined up in January to boost us in what hopefully will be a final push then.

Maybe Ayling swap for Bartley, who they like at Leeds and Mckenna from the dons if dekka does us a good deal.

After a wonderful win today I can't believe you're souring the victory with talk of shipping out Bartley! He was integral within the team today. Try and be happy!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on October 06, 2018, 10:44:50 PM
In short the Championship is possibly the most competitive league in world football played over 46 games with relatively thin squads. I therefore would n't burden any team or manager with a benchmark of automatic promotion as a baseline. Top 6 is  reasonable and obviously that does include the 2 automatic promotion spots but there is a degree of luck involved and while it be wrong to suggest that luck will be the key determent those promoted won't be unlucky for sure.   

I agree this league is competitive and relentless.

The stronger the squad the better your chance to be in the top 6.

Carlos carvahal, a manager I rate, was sacked last season by sheff wed when he had a whole first team out injured, after getting to the play offs the season before.

You need luck and a good medical team to get into the top six in this league with a good squad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Nocky on October 07, 2018, 12:49:44 AM
He’s done well and I like the fact he has a clear footballing philosophy and way of playing. Still lots of room for improvement. We’ve been unconvincing for large parts of the season and we’re far too open through the middle of the park. This needs to be addressed, as does the away performances.

Would like to see him be a bit more flexible with the formation and personnel away from home. I think the same attacking 3412 leaves us too open. Perhaps dropping one of the strikers for another midfielder would be worth a try with Barnes playing off either Gayle or J Rod.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KYA on October 08, 2018, 02:27:48 PM
Moore what a   top bloke.
https://www.footballfancast.com/championship/west-bromwich-albion/west-bromwich-albion-fans-adore-moore-for-classy-gesture-following-win-over-reading
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: don1thedon on October 08, 2018, 03:19:37 PM
Moore what a   top bloke.
https://www.footballfancast.com/championship/west-bromwich-albion/west-bromwich-albion-fans-adore-moore-for-classy-gesture-following-win-over-reading
Yes, saw that KYA, sets such a great standard for our club - respect!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 17, 2018, 09:27:26 AM
A message from the man himself:

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/october/a-message-from-darren-moore/
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on October 17, 2018, 09:33:22 AM
A message from the man himself:

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/october/a-message-from-darren-moore/

Just cant help but love the bloke can we.

Has been nothing but positive since he took the role on.
Won 2 manager of the month awards.
Rebranded our style of play.
Shifted tactics and formation in such a short space of time.
Scoring goals for fun.
Reconnected with the fans.
Reconnected with the community.
Pretty much run the club on his own over the summer until we managed to try and sort the mess out.

For his first crack at management he aint doing a bad job, granted we may question his tactics/subs at times but overall hes had a very SOLID start to life as a manager/head coach.

Long may it continue.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: miggybaggy on October 17, 2018, 09:37:33 AM
A message from the man himself:

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/october/a-message-from-darren-moore/

Thank YOU Darren. I now look forward to albion games with a sense of excitement for the first time in years! And your efforts are showing how an attack-minded approach will entice me and thousands of others back to games regularly just to drink in the amazing atmosphere our fans are capable of generating.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: keithowba86 on October 17, 2018, 03:46:53 PM
A message from the man himself:

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/october/a-message-from-darren-moore/
This almost bought a tear to my eye! The passion he has for not only the club but us fans is unreal... he deserves everything positive from our fans! No doom and gloom, even when the going gets tough! Because ultimately he's trying to get them to play the right way, and with dowling coming in now, we may just start to see a shift in player personel.

Im confident that if we were to lose 3 on the bounce at any point (and it will come) then he's more than capable of getting them back on track and motivating them to achieve great things.

Well done Darren, you've certainly proven me wrong... i wasnt completely against you bceoming our manager, you were just my second choice!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on October 20, 2018, 04:58:47 PM
Poor team selection, took way too long to change things, poor eventual substitutions.

Copy and paste this for virtually every game this season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on October 20, 2018, 05:01:32 PM
We might be third, but to repeat, we've won games in spite of Moore's team selections and tactics, not because of them.

Reactive management, illogical substitutions, clear favourites (mainly those players who are oldest or happen to have been around the longest), unable to recognise or make attempts to deal with our weaknesses (central midfield, as was clear before the season even started).

Not impressed at all.

Without being consistently bailed out by Gayle and Barnes (worryingly both of whom are on loan), we'd be languishing in the bottom half.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on October 20, 2018, 05:17:56 PM
Couldn't wait could you..

2 manager of the months. Beaten numerous top prem managers. His changes in recent games have gained us points.

It seems like you expect us to win every game by numerous goals.

We are going to get many more rubbish performances during the season.

Second game we've failed to score. First defeat in 8? Swansea and stoke behind us and both had better transfer windows according to some on here. Stoke fans wanting rowett out.
 
Moore has spent 7m! He hasn't been backed. We have to be patient, if we lose Moore we lose jones then back
To
Square one

We are 3rd. Best goal difference in the league.  1 point behind top, 4 clear from 7th. We are on track.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 20, 2018, 05:24:01 PM
We might be third, but to repeat, we've won games in spite of Moore's team selections and tactics, not because of them.

Reactive management, illogical substitutions, clear favourites (mainly those players who are oldest or happen to have been around the longest), unable to recognise or make attempts to deal with our weaknesses (central midfield, as was clear before the season even started).

Not impressed at all.

Without being consistently bailed out by Gayle and Barnes (worryingly both of whom are on loan), we'd be languishing in the bottom half.


3rd thread you've spammed this rubbish in now. Give over mate. Can't win them all.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on October 20, 2018, 05:32:41 PM
Can't be people calling for his head already seriously? Whilst that was pretty rank and most of the away performances have also been below par we have still got the results- he is a manager learning his trade.

This next run of fixtures will be test for him as a manager. We might lose a
Couple and it's whether we can bounce back. Also he has an opportunity to try field or Harper cm next game.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on October 20, 2018, 06:29:44 PM
Even Pulis (spit) did well at first. He then became a "stick in the mud" which was our undoing.
Darren, although playing a different style is also becoming a "stick in the mud" who wont change.
Surely to move on, people must see what is happening around and adjust accordingly.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 20, 2018, 06:37:16 PM
We might be third, but to repeat, we've won games in spite of Moore's team selections and tactics, not because of them.

Reactive management, illogical substitutions, clear favourites (mainly those players who are oldest or happen to have been around the longest), unable to recognise or make attempts to deal with our weaknesses (central midfield, as was clear before the season even started).

Not impressed at all.

Without being consistently bailed out by Gayle and Barnes (worryingly both of whom are on loan), we'd be languishing in the bottom half.

Becoming boring. Really boring. Might be best to just copy the same points you make on every thread and then you can paste them in to every thread you heart desires. Who was it you wanted as manager again?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on October 20, 2018, 06:46:54 PM
Poor performance again away from home but this time Barnes or Gayle couldn't come to Albion's rescue. Brunt is not a central midfielder and had his usual ineffective game but this time Livermore was no better. Have player's to urine this league if coach had the bottle to pick them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on October 20, 2018, 06:57:41 PM
Becoming boring. Really boring. Might be best to just copy the same points you make on every thread and then you can paste them in to every thread you heart desires. Who was it you wanted as manager again?
Dean Smith.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on October 20, 2018, 07:04:32 PM
Can't be people calling for his head already seriously? Whilst that was pretty rank and most of the away performances have also been below par we have still got the results- he is a manager learning his trade.

This next run of fixtures will be test for him as a manager. We might lose a
Couple and it's whether we can bounce back. Also he has an opportunity to try field or Harper cm next game.

Who is calling for his head?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hardtobeat on October 20, 2018, 08:00:09 PM
Concerned that as suspected he is very inflexible tactically. As already said he seems to be re active rather than pro active with his sub's. A game waiting to be won was lost due to familiar failings
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on October 20, 2018, 08:03:28 PM
I think as time goes on most fans can see what works and what doesn’t.

1) Surely Mears has seen his last action in a WBA shirt.  We have Phillips on the verge of returning and Sako almost ready.
2) The partnership of Brunt / Livermore is clearly not effective enough even at this level.  I’d like to see Hoolahan given a start.
3) Why always use HRK as a sub when he rarely is effective.  I’d rather have one of Sako, Burke or Leko come on to replace Gayle.

Moore should have learnt from the first 13 games and react accordingly.  I don’t really see any signs of this which I find worrying.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on October 20, 2018, 08:21:42 PM
I think as time goes on most fans can see what works and what doesn’t.

1) Surely Mears has seen his last action in a WBA shirt.  We have Phillips on the verge of returning and Sako almost ready.
2) The partnership of Brunt / Livermore is clearly not effective enough even at this level.  I’d like to see Hoolahan given a start.
3) Why always use HRK as a sub when he rarely is effective.  I’d rather have one of Sako, Burke or Leko come on to replace Gayle.

Moore should have learnt from the first 13 games and react accordingly.  I don’t really see any signs of this which I find worrying.

The Wigan goal highlights why Mears shouldn’t be at the club he is ball watching and when he realises it’s too late and he hasn’t got the capacity to sprint back.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 20, 2018, 08:26:22 PM
The Wigan goal highlights why Mears shouldn’t be at the club he is ball watching and when he realises it’s too late and he hasn’t got the capacity to sprint back.


You can pin a lot of things on Mears but the Wigan goal where Adarabioyo ducked/bottled the header from a straight long ball is not one.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 20, 2018, 08:28:21 PM
The Wigan goal highlights why Mears shouldn’t be at the club he is ball watching and when he realises it’s too late and he hasn’t got the capacity to sprint back.

Shame Hegazi couldn't put a tackle in too, think he's more to blame than Mears.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionBest on October 20, 2018, 08:29:46 PM
Poor, poor, poor all round from the defence.
Adarabioyo looked shaky and physically weak when he came on and no better than the underperforming three at the back.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionBest on October 20, 2018, 08:32:10 PM
Concerned that as suspected he is very inflexible tactically. As already said he seems to be re active rather than pro active with his sub's. A game waiting to be won was lost due to familiar failings

To be fair, I really couldn't see much of a gameplan to WIN the game today ?  Low energy, time wasting and very defensive.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on October 20, 2018, 08:45:32 PM

You can pin a lot of things on Mears but the Wigan goal where Adarabioyo ducked/bottled the header from a straight long ball is not one.

Look where the Wigan player starts his run from . It’s bloody awful defending. He just lets him go.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Senna68 on October 20, 2018, 09:50:59 PM
I think Big Dave will get things right if he is given the right support, but I do feel that the club have stitched him up a bit, like our lack of a left footed centre half & decent right back for a start. It's early days with the style of play so we have to accept there will be games where we will be nullified by more experienced managers. Big Dave is methodical & he will learn from these situations, but we have to back him as mistakes will happen, what is important is how he learns to react to them. My biggest worry would be January when we will really find out where the club is going, if they are going to back his ambition.

A point I would make is that when you are on the touchline you do not get a great view of the play & sometimes I think help is needed from a higher vantage point especially in the first half so that things can be addressed at half time by the coaching team, because that's when a change was needed to be made today. I also think this is why sometimes we are not proactive with subs when they are needed & the wrong players get taken off. The question we need to ask is do we still have or use a performance analyst, because if we do then questions need to be raised about his/her performance as they should really be carrying out this role & advising accordingly.

On todays game my biggest problem is why we are playing Mears. Having seen the games where he has been playing in the team, you have to question what does he offer, because yet again from what i have seen of him today we are basically playing with 10 men when he is on the pitch. He cost us bookings, the injury to Dawson & the goal today. He just cannot read the game & his movement is woeful to the extent that the team are frightened to put the ball down that wing, because when they did he offered no movement, it just came backwards, he was constantly out of position, the wrong side of players when defending & that was basically our problem today. Other players are having to cover for him & its costing us. I think he is well past his sell by date & we surely have better options. Other people may not agree but a performance coaching student highlighted these points with me today during the game.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Scooby Doo on October 20, 2018, 11:07:19 PM
In any walk of life you will make mistakes. That is the harsh reality of it. However what's important is learning from those mistakes. Repetition of mistakes is quite simply unforgivable in my opinion and irrespective of where we are in the league, Moore should not be exempt from this criticism.

That said it's a tough league and Rowett and Potter are finding that out. The squad is lacking in depth and that's also a concern. It's times like this when the threadbareness of it really gets found out.

Still overperforming in my book. Just think that it's so frustrating that we could be doing so much better if he wasn't being so naive.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on October 20, 2018, 11:11:40 PM
The idea of a public forum is to discuss views. If you disagree with them then that's fine, but to keep seeing people belittling others for having a different view point is just ridiculous.

If fans think Moore isn't up to it then they have a right to say.

Personally, I'm getting fed up of his post match interviews that big up the opposition and say how we will learn from it. I understand he's new to the role, but suggesting that seasoned pros still have things to learn is just an excuse. For a number of games, we've been far from good enough, and have relied on two very talented loanees.

Ironically, i think a player who does have a lot to learn has been one of our best and most creative players (Barnes).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 20, 2018, 11:22:36 PM
Look at the table. Back him or lose him and watch him succeed elsewhere.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on October 21, 2018, 12:27:54 AM
No creativity in the middle of park is hurting us especially away from home, teams just sit back and let us have the ball at the back but squeeze the space when it eventually comes forward. I'd be tempted to go to a back four on these away days giving Dawson and Hegazi the center halve partnership. 4 4 1 1 might help us gain control of midfield and I'd drop Barnes into middle with jrod playing no 10 and Gayle up top.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on October 21, 2018, 09:39:34 AM
There's clearly a performance problem away from home, although results haven't been too bad.

I think away we should just go 4231

Dawson would have to be RB, so it would be same personnel but a change of system. I'd go Livermore and Barry sitting, Brunt left, Phillips/Sako Right, Barnes number 10 and Gayle up top. You could potentially utilise Burke and Edwards more in this system, Field potentially.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: brummyroader on October 21, 2018, 09:11:14 PM
For me our main trouble particularly away from home with this 3-1-4-2 is the wing backs drop deep when we defend to form a 5 man defence. Brunt and Livermore then try to provide a 2 man shield for the defence but at this point they are trying to cover 4 opposition players in their two full backs and two centre mids as Barnes and the two strikers stay high up the pitch. This makes it ridiculously easy to play the ball around just outside our box ad players to make runs in dangerous areas which are static 5 man defence find it hard to pick them up and concede chances at will.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on October 22, 2018, 12:46:53 PM
It's worrying me that despite clear and obvious problems, Big Dave is taking no action to combat them.

Mears is simply not good enough for this level anymore, we desperately need younger legs in midfield, and we can't replace Gayle with Robson-Kanu and expect goals. Yet here we are again.

He's done terrifically well in his short tenure as head coach, and he's trying to instil a more progressive brand of football in the team, but until he actually starts to show that he's learning from his mistakes, and not falling into the traps so many other British managers do, he will always remain a qualified success.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on October 22, 2018, 01:48:03 PM
It's worrying me that despite clear and obvious problems, Big Dave is taking no action to combat them.

Mears is simply not good enough for this level anymore, we desperately need younger legs in midfield, and we can't replace Gayle with Robson-Kanu and expect goals. Yet here we are again.

He's done terrifically well in his short tenure as head coach, and he's trying to instil a more progressive brand of football in the team, but until he actually starts to show that he's learning from his mistakes, and not falling into the traps so many other British managers do, he will always remain a qualified success.
Have to agree. I like Moore a lot but he talks a lot about continual improvement and things to work on but nothing seems to change at all., the defence is still dodgy, Brunt still plays in CM, Mears starts despite being awful and HRK still comes on every game. Hopefully Saturday's defeat coupled with Livermore's ban will be the catalyst for change.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on October 24, 2018, 09:28:59 PM
Woeful substitutions again, just don’t think he’s up to it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: sconesy on October 24, 2018, 09:34:50 PM
Woeful substitutions again, just don’t think he’s up to it.

Agreed, I have the upmost respect for him as a person but he’s now getting found out. Those substitutions killed off any chance of getting anything from this game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on October 24, 2018, 09:56:33 PM
Nothing but respect for Moore but this rubbish has got to stop .
Bartley - gone
3 at the back - gone
HRK sub - gone
Phillips in defence - gone
Jrod still getting picked despite being out of form - gone.
Finally , Brunt out the middle.
Then we can turn this around.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on October 24, 2018, 09:59:09 PM
He seems afriad of shaking up the system. There were multiple tactical changes he could have made, putting j rod in his own up front and bringing sako on the wing, maybe put Barnes out there and put either Morrison or Hoolahan central, even just adding an extra man into the middle, but he always goes straight to Robson-Kanu, sespite him being a passenger for 3 seasons.

Maybe he will learn, but I don't have muxh confidence in him doing so.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on October 24, 2018, 10:01:25 PM
Top bloke but isn't doing it for me as head coach, unable to sort out defense being overrun in midfield and two loan signings baling him out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on October 24, 2018, 10:14:17 PM
Derby are below us. Loan signings are doing good for them too.
Lampard has connections at prem level.

When we was going good people on here said it was down to jones
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on October 24, 2018, 10:15:42 PM
Very poor from Moore.  Why HRK?  Why no Hoolahan?  Brunt 180mins in 4 days?  We are in big trouble if Gayle and Gibbs are injured.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on October 24, 2018, 10:16:09 PM
Sack moore and the players will be unhappy yet again

Do we really need that?

Let's go get someone who plays long balls to Gayle nd over Barnes head aye
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: telford baggie on October 24, 2018, 10:16:48 PM
Look at the table. Back him or lose him and watch him succeed elsewhere.
he wont succeed elsewhere hes clueless
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: charlebaggie on October 24, 2018, 10:17:51 PM
Where's Sako Where's Burke.Woeful substitutions HRK Tyrone Mears Defence well that's been waiting to happen all season  .Two defeats on the bounce a third and it won't belong till he's looking over his shoulder . Shocking tonight !
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: koren on October 24, 2018, 10:18:38 PM
It's not a bad thing to find out those problems as it's just October and still long way to go.

Now big test for his tactically ability. I hope he can overcome this hurdle.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on October 24, 2018, 10:25:52 PM
Goals conceded: 20th  :o

Darren Moore labels the game bizarre. He refers to J-Rod's gifting Derby a goal a slight mistake.

Sky pundits making the valid point our central midfield, Brunt and Field do not show for the ball when the defence have it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 24, 2018, 10:30:27 PM
Goals conceded: 20th  :o

Darren Moore labels the game bizarre. He refers to J-Rod's gifting Derby a goal a slight mistake.

Sky pundits making the valid point our central midfield, Brunt and Field do not show for the ball when the defence have it.

Field did show for the ball but Brunt hasn’t all season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on October 24, 2018, 10:33:31 PM
Nothing but respect for Moore but this rubbish has got to stop .
Bartley - gone
3 at the back - gone
HRK sub - gone
Phillips in defence - gone
Jrod still getting picked despite being out of form - gone.
Finally , Brunt out the middle.
Then we can turn this around.
Just about sums it up Dexy, just one line missing.
If none of the above, Darren Moore - gone
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mig on October 24, 2018, 10:34:48 PM
It's not a bad thing to find out those problems as it's just October and still long way to go.

Now big test for his tactically ability. I hope he can overcome this hurdle.

Except many of these problems were pretty clear a long time ago and not a lot has been done to overcome them thus far.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on October 24, 2018, 10:35:08 PM
Tactically out-thought by a manager even less experienced than him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hunsletbaggie on October 24, 2018, 10:38:01 PM
We need to revert to a back 4 with Hoolahan just in front as a play maker similar to what Leeds are doing with Kalvin Phillips in front of their back 4 .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on October 24, 2018, 10:39:07 PM
Tactically out-thought by a manager even less experienced than him.

By what ? 6 games ?

I'm sure Moore out smarted the spurs gaffer last season, huge difference in experience

Means nothing
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Beefy on October 24, 2018, 10:42:07 PM
It also defies logic that one of our best defenders of the last 20 years has managed to produce probably our worst defence in that time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on October 24, 2018, 10:42:52 PM
Talking utter garbage after game and is starting to be found out, tactics are none existence from his teams and only for Barnes and Gayle chipping in with goals and getting results to cover coaching staffs short comings.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on October 24, 2018, 10:43:31 PM
It also defies logic that one of our best defenders of the last 20 years has managed to produce probably our worst defence in that time.

Mowbray was a defender as a player. It doesn't seem to follow that good defenders are good defensive coaches for some reason.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on October 24, 2018, 10:44:46 PM
It also defies logic that one of our best defenders of the last 20 years has managed to produce probably our worst defence in that time.

Mowbray and Denis Smith were also guilty of the same. I think centre halves dream about how they want football to be played and going forward they seem to get it right most of the time but defensively they struggle
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: graka on October 24, 2018, 11:00:28 PM
Listening to his post match interview I wonder how well he gets his coaching points across.
He needs to grow some balls and tell his mate Jones he's not coaching Belgium now and the back 3 isn't working.
Bartley is one of the worst centre halves I've seen and i saw Stacey North.
Dawson's has been equally poor but we know there's a decent defender in there from his time next to Evans and gmac.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: alex1 on October 24, 2018, 11:01:26 PM
Don't think its only the defence that should be blamed, as they had very poor protection in front of them. Livermore might have made some difference in there. As Bomber said, we need to play more compact when defending. Anotehr problem is that, apart from Hegazi, we don't have many other defenders as an option. Obviously we tried to bring in more defenders in the close season but failed.
I hope this isn't used as an excuse to go more defensive. Do we really want to go back to scrapping for 1-0's? I've certainly had enough of that over the last few years.

Must say I fail to see what Mears and HRK bring. Puzzling subs. They must be doing something amazing in training. 
Really hope the injuries are not serious. Gayle, Gibbs and Phillips are absolutely vital. 

Still,  we haven't been beaten by more than one goal till tonight.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on October 24, 2018, 11:01:34 PM
A mistake is when you do something once, but if you keep repeating it then it becomes habitual, the same way fans used to say 'it was just one sloppy error' as to why we continually lost games under Irvine, when in reality it was a systematic problem which was a result of his bad tactics.

On to Moore, firstly I like his football and philosophy, after years of Pulis it's a refreshing change.
However, we've been making the same mistakes, over and over this season and it's starting to become concerning when you enter October and nothing seems to be improved upon. If anything, you could argue other teams are now gaining on us through use of tape/footage which reveals our errors. I think Derby did this tonight for the second goal, like Wigan it was from a long-ball goalkick.

The problem with Moore is that there's a massive gap between the middle and back. Dare I say it, Yacob would have been perfect to sit there and take easy passes/plug the gap. Instead we don't have that player so we get ran through too easy.
I would like to see Barry put in that position or as said above, even Hoolahan would be a good option. Possibly even Field or Livermore, just not Brunt! Basically it would allow us some cover at the back whilst also allowing more passing options. Our back 3 CANNOT pass the ball very well for 90 minutes and it brings attacks on to us.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on October 24, 2018, 11:02:45 PM
Listening to his post match interview I wonder how well he gets his coaching points across.
He needs to grow some balls and tell his mate Jones he's not coaching Belgium now and the back 3 isn't working.
Bartley is one of the worst centre halves I've seen and i saw Stacey North.
Dawson's has been equally poor but we know there's a decent defender in there from his time next to Evans and gmac.
I actually didn't understand what he was on about and its becoming painfully obvious that he isn't a head coach.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: CL3MO on October 24, 2018, 11:12:28 PM
His post-match comments are an absolute joke tonight.

I hope to god he gets in early with Jones tomorrow and starts thinking about how to set that new back four up...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: graka on October 24, 2018, 11:14:45 PM
I actually didn't understand what he was on about and its becoming painfully obvious that he isn't a head coach.

Agreed. I think Jones is the driving force behind our style of play from his time under Martinez but we don't have the personnel to do it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on October 24, 2018, 11:15:52 PM
Listening to his post match interview I wonder how well he gets his coaching points across.
He needs to grow some balls and tell his mate Jones he's not coaching Belgium now and the back 3 isn't working.
Bartley is one of the worst centre halves I've seen and i saw Stacey North.
Dawson's has been equally poor but we know there's a decent defender in there from his time next to Evans and gmac.

Agree, I think we could still have a good attacking threat with a more traditional back line, but also be more rounded as a result.

As you say, Dawson was a proven Premier League player for years, along side various partners. I also think the others aren't as bad as people make out. Even Bartley who has been a pretty bad signing would look far better with more support - instead they're being asked to do things which make them look bad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on October 24, 2018, 11:16:37 PM
just wish he would try something different it's obvious the back 3 are uncomfortable with the ball, the central midfield has been a mess all season yet he constantly puts Brunt in a position he's wasted in. he's left himself short in personnel to go a back 4.Why send Nyom out on loan and bring in Mears who isn't good enough for this level. Where's Burke who cost £15m to possibly change a match instead of the predictably naff HRK.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on October 24, 2018, 11:19:37 PM
Time to say "Thank you but, good night."
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on October 24, 2018, 11:19:44 PM
I wonder if by holding onto to many of last years player has hindered him with building a new squad. off the top of my head

one's id let go
Hegazi, Bartley, Barry,Livermore,Morrison,Brunt, Myhill, Mears

         
one's i'd keep
Johnstone, Phillips,field, Gibbs,Sako,Dawson,Field,Harper,Edwards,Rodriguez,

 try to buy     Gayle & Barnes
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on October 24, 2018, 11:23:29 PM
Is there another goalie available? I am not too happy with Johnstone.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on October 24, 2018, 11:25:15 PM
His post-match comments are an absolute joke tonight.

I hope to god he gets in early with Jones tomorrow and starts thinking about how to set that new back four up...

Personally I don’t think either of them know how to coach it , Moore is supposed to be the off the ball expert according to Jones . On tonight’s evidence I’ve seen non league teams with better shape .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: alex1 on October 24, 2018, 11:26:02 PM
Agreed. I think Jones is the driving force behind our style of play from his time under Martinez but we don't have the personnel to do it.

A bit like the situation with Frank de Boer. With Ajax, his teams played some of the most attacking, attractive passing football you will see anywhere, winning 4 league titles into the bargain. Then he tried to play the same at Palace, and lost every game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on October 24, 2018, 11:26:59 PM
Tactically out-thought by a manager even less experienced than him.
That won champions league medals, went to world cups, played with and against some of the best players ever
It matters
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on October 24, 2018, 11:30:08 PM
every team we have played this season except qpr ,have played us of the park footballing wise irrespective of the final result,most teams couldn't finish,Derby could our luck ran out,we are playing now exactly the same as we did forest away back in august,3 centre halves that cannot play pass it out from the back ,a midfield with no legs that is overrun practically every game,tonights result did not surprise me at all,i totally respect Big Dave he is a club legend,but a football manager he is not,and we will only have the chance this season with this set of players
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on October 24, 2018, 11:31:13 PM
Agreed. I think Jones is the driving force behind our style of play from his time under Martinez but we don't have the personnel to do it.

Funny I was wondering if anyone would mention this. This style smacks of Jones and Martinez at Wigan (and Everton). Enjoyed going forward but couldn’t defend.
I thought Albion fans didn’t want defensive football though ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on October 24, 2018, 11:33:22 PM
every team we have played this season except qpr ,have played us of the park footballing wise irrespective of the final result,most teams couldn't finish,Derby could our luck ran out,we are playing now exactly the same as we did forest away back in august,3 centre halves that cannot play pass it out from the back ,a midfield with no legs that is overrun practically every game,tonights result did not surprise me at all,i totally respect Big Dave he is a club legend,but a football manager he is not,and we will only have the chance this season with this set of players

What players? The strength of the squad to my mind is a myth that the media and other managers have spun along. We have a few brilliant individuals at this level but not a great squad. It’s so lacking in certain areas.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on October 25, 2018, 12:00:25 AM
Agreed. I think Jones is the driving force behind our style of play from his time under Martinez but we don't have the personnel to do it.

I'm not sure he has the balls tbh.

Darren is the off the ball coach and was far more successful in coaching a back 4 at the back end of last season.

Since we've switched to a back 3 our shape has been awful. Not only that but it's our with the ball play that's causing havoc defensively at times so DM also needs to grow some balls in that respect and tell Jones the passing out from the back means we're woefully out of shape.

Will he stand up to Jones? I hope so but don't think so
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on October 25, 2018, 12:02:43 AM
What players? The strength of the squad to my mind is a myth that the media and other managers have spun along. We have a few brilliant individuals at this level but not a great squad. It’s so lacking in certain areas.
I agree even with a fully fit squad we cant put out a decent central midfield pairing,now we are starting to get injuries in other positions too,i just don't think our management have the right know how required to integrate the younger players or even getting us to play as a cohesive unit,we are still as disjointed as we were back in august and I cannot see this improving
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tlms-p23 on October 25, 2018, 12:11:03 AM
Hopefully he'll learn the lesson. 3 at the back doesn't work. 14 games played, 22 goals conceded.

We've conceded the same as 24th place Ipswich, 1 more than 23rd place Hull City, 2 more than 21st place Rotherham, 3 more than 18th place Bolton, 2 more than 17th place Stoke.

In fact, only 4 sides in the WHOLE LEAGUE have conceded more than us.

We will not go up if we continue to defend like this. We will not make the play offs if we defend like this. If Moore insists on playing 3 defenders with limited technical ability, asks them to play out from the back and gives them inadequate cover in midfield it'll cost him his job.

Teams do not get promoted or come in the top 6 when they concede 1.6 goals per game. They finish 16th.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on October 25, 2018, 01:33:23 AM
Agreed. I think Jones is the driving force behind our style of play from his time under Martinez but we don't have the personnel to do it.

My thoughts exactly, I believe it is Jones trying to implement the Belgium way with us, but instead of kompany and alderweld he has, ahem, Kyle Bartley.

We need to go back to basics and stop gifting goals from our own terrible passes.

We need a mf general like mulumbu, who can protect the back 4 like huddles tone did for Derby tonight.


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on October 25, 2018, 02:55:37 AM
I agree even with a fully fit squad we cant put out a decent central midfield pairing,now we are starting to get injuries in other positions too,i just don't think our management have the right know how required to integrate the younger players or even getting us to play as a cohesive unit,we are still as disjointed as we were back in august and I cannot see this improving

We don’t have a right back, we have 1 decent centre half and one centre midfielder. We then have a few brilliant (at this level) attacking players.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Nice1Cyrille on October 25, 2018, 03:26:52 AM
We need to revert to a back 4 with Hoolahan just in front as a play maker similar to what Leeds are doing with Kalvin Phillips in front of their back 4 .
Agree with the idea but do we have 4 good defenders to start with?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on October 25, 2018, 05:09:07 AM
100% Moore will be here for the season imo

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on October 25, 2018, 05:27:09 AM
Plus we are not even half way through the season yet.
We are 4th, we could be top in a few weeks ffs
Sack Moore and we lose jones and everything else.

We should not be looking to sack him. Sack him and we can wave goodbye to any chance of promotion. Stick with him and we have a chance. He got us top last week . We are not given a right to be dominate every week
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: chipperclark on October 25, 2018, 06:07:50 AM
 ??? Problem is plainly obvious...you can play 3 at the back but need a "defensive" shield similar to Yacob.

Field or Livermore can do this role....have more legs than Barry or Brunt.

This role leads to more flexibility if playing a "WEAKER" TEAM CAN MOVE FORWARD, OR BACK DEFENSIVELY against tougher opposition.

I coached the Under 14 girls team,several years ago,so know a thing or two about formations?????? :P :P :P.

BIG DAVE YOU HAVE TO CHANGE THINGS WE ARE GETTING SMASHED IN THIS AREA.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on October 25, 2018, 06:20:03 AM
That won champions league medals, went to world cups, played with and against some of the best players ever
It matters

Agreed.

Derby appointed a top class ex footballer with a wealth of knowledge and contacts. We appointed a bloke who’s attribute was heading a football.

Last night and last Saturday we’re completely unacceptable and Darren Moore needs to be told in no uncertain terms that things need to improve.

Personally don’t think there’s is enough pressure on him from the hierarchy.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on October 25, 2018, 07:18:03 AM
Moore has had 2 recent international breaks with the majority of his squad available to work on the defensive side of the game. Which begs the question what have they been doing ? There are deficiencies that are not being addressed .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on October 25, 2018, 07:22:13 AM
His after game analysis beggars belief, he must be going to different games.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on October 25, 2018, 07:26:35 AM

Sky pundits making the valid point our central midfield, Brunt and Field do not show for the ball when the defence have it.

Said it after the Sheff Wed game, our defenders are expected to pass it out from the back but without the support from midfield. Man City and Barcelona's defenders don't play like Xaxi and Iniesta, they just need to be able to pass to them, but under Moore's current system, they are expected to be the play maker because our central midfield two have not been mpbile enough to get into the positions to receive the ball, and neither have the wing backs.

The lack of a shielding midfielder is the second issue. Brunt is a winger, not a defensive midfielder. Moore has to address this but he won't.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mig on October 25, 2018, 07:26:58 AM
I do agree as has been mentioned elsewhere that the midfield isn't really helping the defence. Firstly in terms of showing for the ball, and secondly in terms of offering protection defensively. Brunt and Barry are too slow to get up and down the pitch - people are quick to write off Field and Harper but at least they'd bring some energy.

In any case, Moore should have identified this in the summer and brought in players to rectify it. Yacob and Mulumbu were both available at the very least.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on October 25, 2018, 07:27:44 AM
Moore his coaching staff, his baffling substitutions and the players on the pitch need to own up to their display last night but Jenkins and board are also to blame for poor recruitment and lack of investment in team.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on October 25, 2018, 07:34:34 AM
Bit worried by DM describing it as a bizarre game and hinting that fine margins made a big difference. Derby were first to everything, we were swamped....hopefully that can be spotted by the coaching team when they re-watch it if they didn't spot it the first time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggies_24 on October 25, 2018, 07:58:45 AM
Bit worried by DM describing it as a bizarre game and hinting that fine margins made a big difference. Derby were first to everything, we were swamped....hopefully that can be spotted by the coaching team when they re-watch it if they didn't spot it the first time.

The only bizarre thing was his post match comments, if management couldn’t see that derby were all over us from the side of the pitch then either they are tactically inept or need to go and sit in the stands as derby breezed past us. I’m also looking for the players to take some responsibility the back 3 & Johnson should be in his office this morning telling him they don’t feel comfertable playing the ball out from the back, Brunt also needs to be in there holding his hands up and saying he can’t play cm, they have to put their hands up and say they can’t do it for the good of the team. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: altonbaggie on October 25, 2018, 08:18:16 AM
The back 3 should be saying they need better options to pass to.  We're 4th, it's not exactly a disaster.  Now we get to see whether they can make a change or two to support the general style of play which most of us would support.  I hope he has the strength not to just give up and ask the defenders to lump it up to the attackers.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: keithowba86 on October 25, 2018, 08:18:51 AM
                                     johnstone

dawson             hegazi            bartley               gibbs

                          livermore       hoolahan

                                       Barnes

phillips                            gayle                            sako

The above team solves all problems!

Jay rodriguez offers us not enough to start, same with brunt

                                       
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on October 25, 2018, 08:28:58 AM
                                     johnstone

dawson             hegazi            bartley               gibbs

                          livermore       hoolahan

                                       Barnes

phillips                            gayle                            sako

The above team solves all problems!

Jay rodriguez offers us not enough to start, same with brunt

                                     


The midfield still gets over-run unless you play Barnes deeper. Do that and he loses his effect further forward.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on October 25, 2018, 08:44:18 AM
It amuses me that some still think Darren is capable, or will for that matter, change anything. We are 14 games into the season now and nothing has changed in the slightest; if anything, the defending looks even more chaotic now that when he first introduced the nonsensical 5-3-2 system for us, the only difference between last night and any other week is that Derby actually had the ability to kill us off with their sustained dominance.

Look at our games this season and there are only really a couple that I can see where we have looked like a 'good' team, which is how we should be looking most weeks against inferior opposition.

Bolton (h) - We were awful and beaten accordingly
Forest (a) - Utterly dreadful display, but they failed to capitalise on their dominance
Norwich (a) - We outscored them, with Rhodes in particular missing a couple of gilt edged chances
QPR (h) - Awful first 45 minutes before our attacking players came to the fore
Boro (a) - We offered absolutely nothing
Stoke (h) - Our best performance this season in my eyes, but still ended up getting lucky with them missing a penalty that could have changed the course of the game
Blues (a) - We were absolutely awful and lucky to come away with a point
Bristol City (h) - They should have been 3-0 up before we fashioned our first chance
Milwall (h) - Our most comfortable game in terms of them offering little up front, but look at how average their players are
Preston (a) - Abject display with us managing to outscore them as we did at Norwich with a similar performance.
Sheff Wed (a) - Should have been dead and buried before Barnes magic saved us
Reading (h) - One of the worst first half displays you will ever see before their keeper came and missed a cross to get us back into a game we should have been dead and buried in yet again
Wigan (a) - Terrible performance in which we created absolutely nothing
Derby (h) - Not much more to be said

We have performed awfully. In short, Barnes and Gayle, as well as Phillips to a lesser extent, have dug us out of many a hole this season. The coaching staff are doing absolutely nothing to improve us and are far out of their depth. We have, as we did with Silva a few years back when we retained Pulis, missed the perfect opportunity to bring in a young coach who knows this level and has performed way above his pay grade at Brentford who was keen to take the job and instead have a bloke in charge who, I'm sorry, but you have to admit, is thick as two short planks, you only have to watch his interview post match last night to see that, alongside a bloke who is trying to implement the system used with Belgium and their far superior players with defenders who cannot pass a pub. Failing to bring in a right back in the summer, failing to bolster the centre of midfield because Darren clearly read Jacko waxing lyrical on here and felt that Brunt was going to be the Championship equivalent of Pirlo....so so many mistakes made already.

We are what, fourth in the league currently? And I am full of so much discontent it is untrue. Even when we went on a winning run, I remained on here head above the parapet predicting what was going to come based on our performances and here we are. Our defensive record is utterly lamentable and I have no faith that the only man who has the power to alter things will be able to come up with any answers.

Disgruntled.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 25, 2018, 08:44:45 AM
Hopefully he'll learn the lesson. 3 at the back doesn't work. 14 games played, 22 goals conceded.

We've conceded the same as 24th place Ipswich, 1 more than 23rd place Hull City, 2 more than 21st place Rotherham, 3 more than 18th place Bolton, 2 more than 17th place Stoke.

In fact, only 4 sides in the WHOLE LEAGUE have conceded more than us.

We will not go up if we continue to defend like this. We will not make the play offs if we defend like this. If Moore insists on playing 3 defenders with limited technical ability, asks them to play out from the back and gives them inadequate cover in midfield it'll cost him his job.

Teams do not get promoted or come in the top 6 when they concede 1.6 goals per game. They finish 16th.

Apart from Huddersfield who got promoted with a negative goal difference.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on October 25, 2018, 08:45:22 AM
Bit worried by DM describing it as a bizarre game and hinting that fine margins made a big difference. Derby were first to everything, we were swamped....hopefully that can be spotted by the coaching team when they re-watch it if they didn't spot it the first time.

I love the bloke but I have stopped listening to his pre/post match interviews as its all quite generic stuff.

'Its a tough league'
'games come thick and fast'
'anyone can beat anyone'

If DM and the coaching staff don't see that Derby outclassed us last night then I give up. At times they pushed their 3 forwards high and wide, stretching our back 3, allowing Mount and co to have so much space to do the damage.

Last night should be a massive learning curve for DM and his team, hopefully its a lesson they learn from and react going forward to ensure it doesn't happen again.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on October 25, 2018, 09:28:18 AM
Stats that Skysports put up last night:

Goals conceded - 22 - Championship rank 20th
Shots faced - 212 - Championship rank 23rd
Shots on target faced - 71 - Championship rank 22nd
Clean sheets - 1 - Championship rank 23rd

Wolves and Cardiff went up last season only conceding 39 all season.

Regardless of how 'lethal' our attack is, you cant continue to defend and set up the way we do.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on October 25, 2018, 09:34:20 AM
Stats that Skysports put up last night:

Goals conceded - 22 - Championship rank 20th
Shots faced - 212 - Championship rank 23rd
Shots on target faced - 71 - Championship rank 22nd
Clean sheets - 1 - Championship rank 23rd

Wolves and Cardiff went up last season only conceding 39 all season.

Regardless of how 'lethal' our attack is, you cant continue to defend and set up the way we do.

I'm not usually one for statistics, but Chris that is absolutely damning.  Anyone thinking that last night was a one off need only look at those, it has been on the cards all season, we are so open defensively.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: barnestormer on October 25, 2018, 09:35:16 AM
It amuses me that some still think Darren is capable, or will for that matter, change anything. We are 14 games into the season now and nothing has changed in the slightest; if anything, the defending looks even more chaotic now that when he first introduced the nonsensical 5-3-2 system for us, the only difference between last night and any other week is that Derby actually had the ability to kill us off with their sustained dominance.

Look at our games this season and there are only really a couple that I can see where we have looked like a 'good' team, which is how we should be looking most weeks against inferior opposition.

Bolton (h) - We were awful and beaten accordingly
Forest (a) - Utterly dreadful display, but they failed to capitalise on their dominance
Norwich (a) - We outscored them, with Rhodes in particular missing a couple of gilt edged chances
QPR (h) - Awful first 45 minutes before our attacking players came to the fore
Boro (a) - We offered absolutely nothing
Stoke (h) - Our best performance this season in my eyes, but still ended up getting lucky with them missing a penalty that could have changed the course of the game
Blues (a) - We were absolutely awful and lucky to come away with a point
Bristol City (h) - They should have been 3-0 up before we fashioned our first chance
Milwall (h) - Our most comfortable game in terms of them offering little up front, but look at how average their players are
Preston (a) - Abject display with us managing to outscore them as we did at Norwich with a similar performance.
Sheff Wed (a) - Should have been dead and buried before Barnes magic saved us
Reading (h) - One of the worst first half displays you will ever see before their keeper came and missed a cross to get us back into a game we should have been dead and buried in yet again
Wigan (a) - Terrible performance in which we created absolutely nothing
Derby (h) - Not much more to be said

We have performed awfully. In short, Barnes and Gayle, as well as Phillips to a lesser extent, have dug us out of many a hole this season. The coaching staff are doing absolutely nothing to improve us and are far out of their depth. We have, as we did with Silva a few years back when we retained Pulis, missed the perfect opportunity to bring in a young coach who knows this level and has performed way above his pay grade at Brentford who was keen to take the job and instead have a bloke in charge who, I'm sorry, but you have to admit, is thick as two short planks, you only have to watch his interview post match last night to see that, alongside a bloke who is trying to implement the system used with Belgium and their far superior players with defenders who cannot pass a pub. Failing to bring in a right back in the summer, failing to bolster the centre of midfield because Darren clearly read Jacko waxing lyrical on here and felt that Brunt was going to be the Championship equivalent of Pirlo....so so many mistakes made already.

We are what, fourth in the league currently? And I am full of so much discontent it is untrue. Even when we went on a winning run, I remained on here head above the parapet predicting what was going to come based on our performances and here we are. Our defensive record is utterly lamentable and I have no faith that the only man who has the power to alter things will be able to come up with any answers.

Disgruntled.
Everything that needs to be said in a nutshell.but what a big nutshell that is
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: stuvetti on October 25, 2018, 09:49:40 AM
And now 3 goals conceded more than QPR
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on October 25, 2018, 10:03:45 AM
The most worrying thing about the last 2 games is that we appear to have been found out and any manager worth his salt will know that all he has to do is pressure our cumbersome midfield and fragile, fragmented, back 3 and they are in with a chance. Now, that's not saying they will succeed however, as Fritzl has so succinctly pointed out, this has been the case all season, yet we have still managed to get results.
The test for Moore and Jones now is how they react. Do they persevere with this system, in the hope that we will still win more than we lose, or will they change to counter the oppositions approach to it?
For me it's simply a case of slight changes, in both system and personnel, rather than ripping up the blueprint and reverting to a, god forbid, Pulis style system.
Go 4 at the back, bring Morrison or Hoolahan into a 5 man midfield and have someone on the bench who can actually affect a game, Rodriguez, Sako, Burke etc. Simple.
Oh and no more Brunt at CM. Not ever.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on October 25, 2018, 10:07:56 AM
When the pressing issue was raised earlier in the season I was told it was crucial to the way we play as it means we can pass through them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 25, 2018, 10:11:46 AM
When the pressing issue was raised earlier in the season I was told it was crucial to the way we play as it means we can pass through them.

In theory that is right as the pressing team will leave holes for us to exploit...sadly the theory isn't working as our defenders are poor passers and the midfield don't look to pass forward just sideways or straight back to the defence.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on October 25, 2018, 10:14:34 AM
Whilst there were clearly issues we were collecting points at the required rate up until Wigan, the measure of the Manager now is can he change things and get back on track?
Of course that is what we all want to see, we need to keep behind the man and the club through what is the first big test
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on October 25, 2018, 10:33:45 AM
When the pressing issue was raised earlier in the season I was told it was crucial to the way we play as it means we can pass through them.
That was true and reaped rewards, but the opposition is now getting wise to it so we need to adapt accordingly. I hoped that Wigan would be the catalyst for change. Last night will be, I have no doubt.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on October 25, 2018, 10:56:26 AM
It amuses me that some still think Darren is capable, or will for that matter, change anything. We are 14 games into the season now and nothing has changed in the slightest; if anything, the defending looks even more chaotic now that when he first introduced the nonsensical 5-3-2 system for us, the only difference between last night and any other week is that Derby actually had the ability to kill us off with their sustained dominance.

Look at our games this season and there are only really a couple that I can see where we have looked like a 'good' team, which is how we should be looking most weeks against inferior opposition.

Bolton (h) - We were awful and beaten accordingly
Forest (a) - Utterly dreadful display, but they failed to capitalise on their dominance
Norwich (a) - We outscored them, with Rhodes in particular missing a couple of gilt edged chances
QPR (h) - Awful first 45 minutes before our attacking players came to the fore
Boro (a) - We offered absolutely nothing
Stoke (h) - Our best performance this season in my eyes, but still ended up getting lucky with them missing a penalty that could have changed the course of the game
Blues (a) - We were absolutely awful and lucky to come away with a point
Bristol City (h) - They should have been 3-0 up before we fashioned our first chance
Milwall (h) - Our most comfortable game in terms of them offering little up front, but look at how average their players are
Preston (a) - Abject display with us managing to outscore them as we did at Norwich with a similar performance.
Sheff Wed (a) - Should have been dead and buried before Barnes magic saved us
Reading (h) - One of the worst first half displays you will ever see before their keeper came and missed a cross to get us back into a game we should have been dead and buried in yet again
Wigan (a) - Terrible performance in which we created absolutely nothing
Derby (h) - Not much more to be said

We have performed awfully. In short, Barnes and Gayle, as well as Phillips to a lesser extent, have dug us out of many a hole this season. The coaching staff are doing absolutely nothing to improve us and are far out of their depth. We have, as we did with Silva a few years back when we retained Pulis, missed the perfect opportunity to bring in a young coach who knows this level and has performed way above his pay grade at Brentford who was keen to take the job and instead have a bloke in charge who, I'm sorry, but you have to admit, is thick as two short planks, you only have to watch his interview post match last night to see that, alongside a bloke who is trying to implement the system used with Belgium and their far superior players with defenders who cannot pass a pub. Failing to bring in a right back in the summer, failing to bolster the centre of midfield because Darren clearly read Jacko waxing lyrical on here and felt that Brunt was going to be the Championship equivalent of Pirlo....so so many mistakes made already.

We are what, fourth in the league currently? And I am full of so much discontent it is untrue. Even when we went on a winning run, I remained on here head above the parapet predicting what was going to come based on our performances and here we are. Our defensive record is utterly lamentable and I have no faith that the only man who has the power to alter things will be able to come up with any answers.

Disgruntled.

Absolutely spot on. Even in many games we've won we've been lucky/relied on our attacking talent (on loan) to dig us out of holes.

Both last night and Wigan have been very much on the cards for a while.

Worrying times in my opinion (poor management, poor squad barring the loan players and not much coming from the youth team). The current management should be given a little while longer to try and turn it around but not too long. I fear if we don't go up this season we could be in the doldrums. Promotion this year is key.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on October 25, 2018, 11:57:02 AM
In theory that is right as the pressing team will leave holes for us to exploit...sadly the theory isn't working as our defenders are poor passers and the midfield don't look to pass forward just sideways or straight back to the defence.

Personally, I think there's a number of problems, but glaringly for me last night, was Brunt & Field not coming for the ball.
We're expecting our defenders to hit 20 & 30 yard passes accurately, even the top Premiership clubs don't do that.

Just looked at the highlights & the other problem we have is marking. We're giving the attackers time to get shots away, when we should be closing down. Compare that to the Derby defender who took the ball off HRK's toe.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Blowee on October 25, 2018, 12:01:11 PM
Much as I like Big Dave and appreciate that in many games the football has been far more entertaining. I worry about his comments after games like last night. His assessment of the match was naive at best and he seemed to have his head in the sand. He is either being loyal to players (and hopefully saying what he believes in the dressing room) or perhaps he realises that he has quite a few issues with certain poor aspects of the squad but just has to do his best to get as much as possible from them. Surely he can see what everyone else (fans and pundits) are saying that the defenders just can't seem to be able to adapt to playing from the back and our midfield is too poor to support them? In so many games balls go into midfield from the back three only to come right back at us as our midfielders just don't seem capable of gathering, retaining or passing the ball.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on October 25, 2018, 12:08:01 PM
Part of the reason they pop the ball back to the defence is because they're under pressure when receiving the ball and have no next ball on.  The wing backs are pushed further up and the CH's are spread out.  If they don't have time to turn and face forward their options are very limited. 

This is what happens when teams press us, they're up against our CH's and midfield.  It's ok to not worry about the CH's that are wide as they're so far away they're unable to play a neat triangle and it gives the opponent time to close them down.

If you watch decent teams play a deep lying MF will pick the ball up off the CH's, practically off their toes.  That's the CH's job done.  This means the opponent are all in front of the MF.  By playing the way we do we let the opponent get in between our back line and our MF.  Give the ball away and we are under serious pressure.

It would all be interesting and go ok if it wasn't for the fact our CH's seem unable to play 10 yard passes at times, let alone 20-30 yard passes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on October 25, 2018, 12:19:59 PM
Much as I like Big Dave and appreciate that in many games the football has been far more entertaining. I worry about his comments after games like last night. His assessment of the match was naive at best and he seemed to have his head in the sand. He is either being loyal to players (and hopefully saying what he believes in the dressing room) or perhaps he realises that he has quite a few issues with certain poor aspects of the squad but just has to do his best to get as much as possible from them. Surely he can see what everyone else (fans and pundits) are saying that the defenders just can't seem to be able to adapt to playing from the back and our midfield is too poor to support them? In so many games balls go into midfield from the back three only to come right back at us as our midfielders just don't seem capable of gathering, retaining or passing the ball.
This is the problem in a nutshell. The attitude of our midfield seems to be, if put under the slightest pressure, pass back to the defence / keeper. Issue with this is that the defenders / keeper aren't equipped to deal with it so the opposition just press high and catch them out. The 1st goal highlights this perfectly. Rodriguez was under barely any pressure but, instead of holding the play up and assessing his options, he nonchalantly chunks it backwards. It seems almost instinctive now, especially with Brunt, Livermore and Mears and also Field last night which suggests it is a premeditated plan. What we need is players to have the confidence to retain possession and look for options rather than just chickening out and taking the cowardly option of passing responsibility back to an insecure CH. Four at the back has to be the answer, at least until we get CH's who are comfortable on the ball and midfielders who want the ball and don't shirk responsibility.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on October 25, 2018, 12:41:29 PM
Much as I like Big Dave and appreciate that in many games the football has been far more entertaining. I worry about his comments after games like last night. His assessment of the match was naive at best and he seemed to have his head in the sand. He is either being loyal to players (and hopefully saying what he believes in the dressing room) or perhaps he realises that he has quite a few issues with certain poor aspects of the squad but just has to do his best to get as much as possible from them. Surely he can see what everyone else (fans and pundits) are saying that the defenders just can't seem to be able to adapt to playing from the back and our midfield is too poor to support them? In so many games balls go into midfield from the back three only to come right back at us as our midfielders just don't seem capable of gathering, retaining or passing the ball.

It will be now that we find out if he is cut out to be a manager, dare I say that the honeymoon is coming to an end
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on October 25, 2018, 12:44:33 PM
Apart from Huddersfield who got promoted with a negative goal difference.

Fair point and you are correct. However to add context Huddersfield finished fifth and were twelve points behind second placed Brighton. Compare our current squad to Huddersfield's during their promotion season and I would be hoping for a better return.

Further to this and despite their negative GD Huddersfield conceded 1.2 goals per game and not the 1.6 per game as previously mentioned. We've conceded 22 goals in 14 League games, twice as many as Leeds and just over three times as many as Boro'. It's been great celebrating our goals this season but if we continue to concede at this rate we'll ship something like 70 in the League. Forest conceded 72 that season and finished 21st.

I doubt we'll continue to concede at the same rate all season long, and we won't finish as low as Forest did back then. But something does need to be done, and it needs to be done quickly. As we keep being told fixtures come thick and fast in the Championship. Fourteen games gone, as a team we're going backwards defensively and the forwards can't always be relied on to get us out of jail.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on October 25, 2018, 12:54:25 PM
His post match comments really concern me, I really hope its a front and he doesn't believe we were in the ascendency and that Gayle's non penalty changed the game.

 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on October 25, 2018, 01:15:54 PM
I've said before how he seems to be falling to old British manager traps of being inflexible, almost intransigent, with team selection and tactics. But I had another thought last night.

He's been talking about "We not me" and respect, making sure we have the right characters - but has that actually taken away from our game? Granted we don't have the youth, pace, and energy of Derby, but they were in our faces and working hard, while several times this season we've just seemed to drift through games.

It's one thing to have a positive attitude but you also need a winning mentality.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on October 25, 2018, 02:18:07 PM
I cannot believe that he would want to bring in a possession style based mantra and then sign someone like Kyle Bartley to try and implement it. There is no consistency between recruitment and playing style.

Based on the evidence we are seeing, we have to bin off this formation and revert to a more solid base which we can build from. The only individual in this current system who has flourished is Harvey Barnes because the rest are all at sea.

I agree with Fritizl to an extent - this division is that bad that the quality of Barnes and Gayle have really papered over the cracks. The first time we have came across a side with any real sort of quality has wiped the floor with us. And if we are being honest, should have scored more.

Moore spoke after the game about it being bizzare and Derby being more clinical. Derby were far from clinical! If they had been they could potentially have run up a cricket score.

It's time to ditch this idealistic mantra when we do not have the players to perform it. Lets get back to basic and try and solidify ourselves.

What does not help is that we are severely lacking a right back which means reverting to a back four is difficult because it means the useless Bartley will have to partner Hegazi. Appalling that we did not sign a right back in the summer.

The substitutions last night was also pathetic - no inventiveness to try and change the game. Settling for the same shape, which had been over-ran, whilst 2-0 down and resorting to Mears and Kanu. Terrible on so many levels.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on October 25, 2018, 09:17:21 PM
I cannot believe that he would want to bring in a possession style based mantra and then sign someone like Kyle Bartley to try and implement it. There is no consistency between recruitment and playing style.

Based on the evidence we are seeing, we have to bin off this formation and revert to a more solid base which we can build from. The only individual in this current system who has flourished is Harvey Barnes because the rest are all at sea.

I agree with Fritizl to an extent - this division is that bad that the quality of Barnes and Gayle have really papered over the cracks. The first time we have came across a side with any real sort of quality has wiped the floor with us. And if we are being honest, should have scored more.

Moore spoke after the game about it being bizzare and Derby being more clinical. Derby were far from clinical! If they had been they could potentially have run up a cricket score.

It's time to ditch this idealistic mantra when we do not have the players to perform it. Lets get back to basic and try and solidify ourselves.

What does not help is that we are severely lacking a right back which means reverting to a back four is difficult because it means the useless Bartley will have to partner Hegazi. Appalling that we did not sign a right back in the summer.

The substitutions last night was also pathetic - no inventiveness to try and change the game. Settling for the same shape, which had been over-ran, whilst 2-0 down and resorting to Mears and Kanu. Terrible on so many levels.


We did actually change shape eventually, we went 4-3-3 and actually started to look a bit better with Morrison dictating play on the ball, Field carrying it forward and Barnes breaking free from his shackles. Admittedly Derby had done their job by then and the personnel we used were far from ideal in certain areas.

My heart sinks every time Robson-Kanu enters the field unless we're about 3-0 up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on October 25, 2018, 10:09:02 PM
Stats that Skysports put up last night:

Goals conceded - 22 - Championship rank 20th
Shots faced - 212 - Championship rank 23rd
Shots on target faced - 71 - Championship rank 22nd
Clean sheets - 1 - Championship rank 23rd

Wolves and Cardiff went up last season only conceding 39 all season.

Regardless of how 'lethal' our attack is, you cant continue to defend and set up the way we do.
It genuinely doesn't matter
We could conceded 100, as long as we score 200
It's points per game that matter, and we ain't doing bad
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on October 25, 2018, 10:13:14 PM
It amuses me that some still think Darren is capable, or will for that matter, change anything. We are 14 games into the season now and nothing has changed in the slightest; if anything, the defending looks even more chaotic now that when he first introduced the nonsensical 5-3-2 system for us, the only difference between last night and any other week is that Derby actually had the ability to kill us off with their sustained dominance.

Look at our games this season and there are only really a couple that I can see where we have looked like a 'good' team, which is how we should be looking most weeks against inferior opposition.

Bolton (h) - We were awful and beaten accordingly
Forest (a) - Utterly dreadful display, but they failed to capitalise on their dominance
Norwich (a) - We outscored them, with Rhodes in particular missing a couple of gilt edged chances
QPR (h) - Awful first 45 minutes before our attacking players came to the fore
Boro (a) - We offered absolutely nothing
Stoke (h) - Our best performance this season in my eyes, but still ended up getting lucky with them missing a penalty that could have changed the course of the game
Blues (a) - We were absolutely awful and lucky to come away with a point
Bristol City (h) - They should have been 3-0 up before we fashioned our first chance
Milwall (h) - Our most comfortable game in terms of them offering little up front, but look at how average their players are
Preston (a) - Abject display with us managing to outscore them as we did at Norwich with a similar performance.
Sheff Wed (a) - Should have been dead and buried before Barnes magic saved us
Reading (h) - One of the worst first half displays you will ever see before their keeper came and missed a cross to get us back into a game we should have been dead and buried in yet again
Wigan (a) - Terrible performance in which we created absolutely nothing
Derby (h) - Not much more to be said

We have performed awfully. In short, Barnes and Gayle, as well as Phillips to a lesser extent, have dug us out of many a hole this season. The coaching staff are doing absolutely nothing to improve us and are far out of their depth. We have, as we did with Silva a few years back when we retained Pulis, missed the perfect opportunity to bring in a young coach who knows this level and has performed way above his pay grade at Brentford who was keen to take the job and instead have a bloke in charge who, I'm sorry, but you have to admit, is thick as two short planks, you only have to watch his interview post match last night to see that, alongside a bloke who is trying to implement the system used with Belgium and their far superior players with defenders who cannot pass a pub. Failing to bring in a right back in the summer, failing to bolster the centre of midfield because Darren clearly read Jacko waxing lyrical on here and felt that Brunt was going to be the Championship equivalent of Pirlo....so so many mistakes made already.

We are what, fourth in the league currently? And I am full of so much discontent it is untrue. Even when we went on a winning run, I remained on here head above the parapet predicting what was going to come based on our performances and here we are. Our defensive record is utterly lamentable and I have no faith that the only man who has the power to alter things will be able to come up with any answers.

Disgruntled.
Good post, and I agree with much that you say. I did not want Darren to be appointed, but I understand why he was, because ,
(a) The people running the club thought that he had done a good job , and that supporters would have been upset if he had not been given his chance. We this one would not have been,
(b) Secondly Darren was the cheap option, and would take the job without making any demands for a large transfer budget.
It is all about preserving as much money as possible for the owner, and hoping for the best.
Darren is not cut out to manage this club and is certainly not good enough to do so.
His insistence on playing this back three and expecting them to play out is ludicrous, and we have all had enough of it.
Frankly, for me, promotion back to a premier league where we would have not the slightest chance of competing, is not the priority.
We need a bright young manager, able to harness the best of our young players , and complement with other good young players from other sources, to play an attractive style of football, and properly compete at this level.
The retention of the old guard who have let us down time and time again seems to be another of Darren's traits, and his refusal to give our youngsters game time is cowardly.
Does he really think we are stupid enough to believe that even our inexperienced youngsters could possibly perform any worse than the likes of Mears, Bartley, Brunt, and HRK ? 
I suspect that we will see a long drawn out wait for the inevitable dismissal.

 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on October 25, 2018, 11:32:01 PM
I wanted Darren to get the job, after the way he handled the last few games in the Premiership and looking at the mess and the drop he was left with.
I now feel that he may not be the right man at this time to help us start to win and succeed again.
I am a hard task master (always have been) and want to see results.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elmo_in_swansea on October 26, 2018, 09:10:32 AM
Can't disagree with anything posted 2 above by fritzl/68
The last 6 games last season, the pressure was off and it was still the same players that had seen off Pulis/Pardew, perhaps they played with freedom.
I love DM and want him to succeed but I didnt want him to get the job because I always felt that with our relegation/recruitment and all things off season Albion something like this would happen and he'd end up as a fall guy.
In my opinion we are an average side in the poorest Championship for a while. Without serious investment I'd fear for any team getting promoted this season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 26, 2018, 09:26:56 AM
Can't disagree with anything posted 2 above by fritzl/68
The last 6 games last season, the pressure was off and it was still the same players that had seen off Pulis/Pardew, perhaps they played with freedom.
I love DM and want him to succeed but I didnt want him to get the job because I always felt that with our relegation/recruitment and all things off season Albion something like this would happen and he'd end up as a fall guy.
In my opinion we are an average side in the poorest Championship for a while. Without serious investment I'd fear for any team getting promoted this season.

what 4th, 2 points off top spot?

Yes it's frustrating that we have now lost 2 games (and 4 in total) in a row and the players are struggling with a new formation especially away from home and Moore doesn't seem to see the issues that fans have identified but a little perspective in needed I think. We are only 1/3 of the way through the season.

The fact that we switched to 4 at the back leads me to think that Moore is realising that he can't stick religiously to playing 3 at the back regardless.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on October 26, 2018, 09:28:21 AM
Can't disagree with anything posted 2 above by fritzl/68
The last 6 games last season, the pressure was off and it was still the same players that had seen off Pulis/Pardew, perhaps they played with freedom.
I love DM and want him to succeed but I didnt want him to get the job because I always felt that with our relegation/recruitment and all things off season Albion something like this would happen and he'd end up as a fall guy.
In my opinion we are an average side in the poorest Championship for a while. Without serious investment I'd fear for any team getting promoted this season.
You are spot on with that comment Elmo, but in our case we will need serious investment even in the Championship.
No Brunt,Morrison,Barry, Houlahan,Gayle,Barnes, not to mention Livermore,Dawson, Gibbs,Rodriguez probably all wanting out. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on October 26, 2018, 10:51:40 AM
I'm not reading to much into the last couple of losses. Injuries are a problem and we lost to a very good Derby side who are on equal points. This league is crazy at the moment 6 sides at the top separated by two points and we are one of them.


Can't disagree with anything posted 2 above by fritzl/68
The last 6 games last season, the pressure was off and it was still the same players that had seen off Pulis/Pardew, perhaps they played with freedom.
I love DM and want him to succeed but I didnt want him to get the job because I always felt that with our relegation/recruitment and all things off season Albion something like this would happen and he'd end up as a fall guy.
In my opinion we are an average side in the poorest Championship for a while. Without serious investment I'd fear for any team getting promoted this season.

The same as every other year. Look at Wolves they had a very good squad to win promotion and still had to strengthen it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on October 26, 2018, 12:12:32 PM
DM needs to recognise the glaring problem we have and make the necessary adjustments. We haven't got the personnel to play 3 at the back, that much is obvious and we leak goals at an alarming rate. The defending on Wednesday was literally comical. Pure negligence. The substitutions didn't help us and we are now in danger of dropping down the league. For me, we need to revert to a back 4 and stop playing out from the back at EVERY opportunity. There is a time and a place and if you are being constantly pressed, then that should create space further up the field to distribute the ball. Mix it up a bit. keep the opponents guessing. Derby knew exactly what we were going to do as we are very predictable. The defence play like robots and seem to have no clue on what decision to make and when to make it. If DM can identify this and adapt then he will go up in my estimation, and I really want that to happen but I'm not sure he will. He looked and sounded like a deer in the headlights in his post match interview on Wednesday and it really seemed that the pressure could be getting to him. I hope I'm wrong about that and he addresses what we can all see as the only thing that really could stop us fighting for the top 2 spots this season. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wollastonbaggie on October 26, 2018, 12:22:44 PM

The same as every other year. Look at Wolves they had a very good squad to win promotion and still had to strengthen it.
Yes that's right but the difference is we won't spend in the way they have and for me promotion would be pointless, unless you're just going for the parachute money the year after to keep the lights on. If we get promoted we'll have to spend an absolute fortune which will be totally beyond our means.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on October 26, 2018, 12:47:47 PM
I'm not reading to much into the last couple of losses. Injuries are a problem and we lost to a very good Derby side who are on equal points. This league is crazy at the moment 6 sides at the top separated by two points and we are one of them.


The same as every other year. Look at Wolves they had a very good squad to win promotion and still had to strengthen it.

burnley?? Huddersfield ??
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kirk on October 26, 2018, 01:01:19 PM
I didn’t think Big Dave was the right man for the job but I cannot believe some of the decisions he is currently making. The signing of Bartley one of the worst defenders I have seen and then to continue to play him, letting Nyom go out onloan and replace him with Mears. Playing Mears. Playing Brunt centre midfield, playing Field at centre half in the cup games, the lack of action for a younger players and the bizarre substitutions he keeps making.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on October 26, 2018, 01:04:27 PM
I didn’t think Big Dave was the right man for the job but I cannot believe some of the decisions he is currently making. The signing of Bartley one of the worst defenders I have seen and then to continue to play him, letting Nyom go out onloan and replace him with Mears. Playing Mears. Playing Brunt centre midfield, playing Field at centre half in the cup games, the lack of action for a younger players and the bizarre substitutions he keeps making.

apart from that everything is tickety-boo!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kie the baggie on October 26, 2018, 02:26:23 PM
We have had real tests twice this season, v boro and derby, lost both. Other games won despite poor tactics against poor teams. Love Darren Moore to bits, but its going to end in tears. Already subs getting boo'd and getting smashed at home in the championship and the scoreline flattered us.post match comments baffling. Constant whistling during the games starting to p#!s the players off. Wednesday reminded me of the game v Leicester last season and look at the comments pards got. Cracks have been papered over all season so far, and to be honest I havent seen a good performance yet. I will get behind him all the way, but I am very worried inside
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: barnestormer on October 27, 2018, 04:38:02 PM
Doesn't know what he's doing I'm afraid.no plan b
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on October 27, 2018, 05:07:09 PM
Still yet to play well this season, still making poor substitutions. HRK consistently fails to make an impact, yet is still Moore's first port of call every time we need a goal. The past 3 games he hasn't had Gayle and Barnes bailing him out, and it's shown him up for what I've feared since the appointment, a poor and naive head coach.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 27, 2018, 05:12:13 PM
Well done to Darren and the team for putting the run of defeats to an end against a decent side.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on October 27, 2018, 05:23:09 PM
Well done to Darren and the team for putting the run of defeats to an end against a decent side.

another windup merchant. we should be doing much better than this against an injury hit side. we are punching well under our weight
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on October 27, 2018, 05:24:49 PM
Still yet to play well this season, still making poor substitutions. HRK consistently fails to make an impact, yet is still Moore's first port of call every time we need a goal. The past 3 games he hasn't had Gayle and Barnes bailing him out, and it's shown him up for what I've feared since the appointment, a poor and naive head coach.


totally agree. we have had 10 minute cameos but our general play is not good enough
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on October 27, 2018, 05:32:15 PM
First bad run under him

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on October 27, 2018, 05:32:42 PM
Darren Moore isn’t perfect and has made mistakes but a look on social media and comments I read from a lot of “fans” are embarrassing. Not thoughtful or a “critique” just vitriolic abuse. I am convinced people have never played football or haven’t studied the games. I have loved football since I was a kid but the “modern fan”’ is putting me off.
Can we put to bed the myth he inherited a “great squad” he didn’t. The board didn’t back him and he’s had 1 transfer window. Everyone of our players not in the team is now a world beater. People couldn’t wait to get rid of Nyom now he’s a huge loss. Burke is a goalscoring machine (against Rushall Olympic and u23 teams).
I wouldn’t play HRK but he has scored off the bench and is actually a forward so it’s not such a ridiculous decision. Mears didn’t play today but I’m sure today was his fault.
I also find it amusing that trying to score past 10 men is now the managers fault. The fact the players couldn’t surely is some of their responsibility.
The amazing thing is it’s not yet November and people are calling for his head...the joys of modern football.

 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on October 27, 2018, 05:33:59 PM
another windup merchant. we should be doing much better than this against an injury hit side. we are punching well under our weight

Yep, they lost both CH's and their attacker. Finished with 10 men and a midfielder in goal.

Yet we didn't muster a single shot on goal.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on October 27, 2018, 05:40:36 PM
I wanted Darren to get the job, after the way he handled the last few games in the Premiership and looking at the mess and the drop he was left with.
I now feel that he may not be the right man at this time to help us start to win and succeed again.
I am a hard task master (always have been) and want to see results.
After today, please see repeat.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 27, 2018, 05:41:12 PM
another windup merchant. we should be doing much better than this against an injury hit side. we are punching well under our weight

Unnecessary comment. We were injury hit too. You'll be one of those who thinks that we should walk this league and that anything less than a win is a reason to dig out Moore. This league isn't like that. Have you forgotten the absolute shambles of last year? Have you forgotten that he inherited this squad from Pulis and the shambles of a board that were sacked. Wake up. Support the team and let's see where we end up. One thing for certain is that constantly moaning is unhelpful to what we are all trying to achieve. 

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 27, 2018, 05:43:45 PM
Darren Moore isn’t perfect and has made mistakes but a look on social media and comments I read from a lot of “fans” are embarrassing. Not thoughtful or a “critique” just vitriolic abuse. I am convinced people have never played football or haven’t studied the games. I have loved football since I was a kid but the “modern fan”’ is putting me off.
Can we put to bed the myth he inherited a “great squad” he didn’t. The board didn’t back him and he’s had 1 transfer window. Everyone of our players not in the team is now a world beater. People couldn’t wait to get rid of Nyom now he’s a huge loss. Burke is a goalscoring machine (against Rushall Olympic and u23 teams).
I wouldn’t play HRK but he has scored off the bench and is actually a forward so it’s not such a ridiculous decision. Mears didn’t play today but I’m sure today was his fault.
I also find it amusing that trying to score past 10 men is now the managers fault. The fact the players couldn’t surely is some of their responsibility.
The amazing thing is it’s not yet November and people are calling for his head...the joys of modern football.

Spot on. And let's not forget that we are currently 5th. You'd think we were bottom for the nonsense talked on here.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on October 27, 2018, 05:51:39 PM
hes not a leader and not the man for the job. my last comment on the matter
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on October 27, 2018, 06:06:36 PM
A sizeable portion of our fanbase has been appalling this year. Booing, slating, abusing players is taking place every week in the Brummie, its left me and many other real supporters feeling quite disappointed and embarrassed with our fans. It doesnt surprise me that the board end up ignoring the fans at times, because a lot of them frankly are idiot. The same people who were pining for Big Dave now want him sacked after losing a couple of games.

Some fans will moan and undermine the team no matter what the club do

Can we cut the "real supporters" comments out please, not wanted on thisd forum, any others by anyone will be removed as we usually do.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 27, 2018, 06:36:31 PM
hes not a leader and not the man for the job. my last comment on the matter

I’ll hold you to that :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: jharman292 on October 27, 2018, 06:54:52 PM
Do find it frustrating to see the comments towards those that have concerns over Moore, like they know nothing of football and are "knee jerking after a couple of losses".

How about the fact that after 15 games, we still do not look like a team. Defense is a shambles. Midfield looks slow and lacks energy required to control games in this league. Any attacking impetus seems to be fading quickly and the players seem to be struggling to create any real chances, instead time and time again, opting for the long diagonal ball. These are real problems and they are not new. At this stage, Moores ideas should be getting stronger and players should be getting more in tune with this system and way of playing, however i believe it is going the other way which is a major concern.

His use of subs is awful. Simple as that. You can not argue with the fact we are a big fish in this league and when the game is in the balance, we should be making bold changes in an effort to win the game. Robson Kanu has not put in a single good performance and yet is always first shout.

I dont expect us to win every game and romp the league but i do think that those who think this is a little blip are refusing to accept that these problems are not going away and 15 games in, i do not believe we have put in a good performance over 90 minutes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 27, 2018, 07:01:24 PM
Do find it frustrating to see the comments towards those that have concerns over Moore, like they know nothing of football and are "knee jerking after a couple of losses".

How about the fact that after 15 games, we still do not look like a team. Defense is a shambles. Midfield looks slow and lacks energy required to control games in this league. Any attacking impetus seems to be fading quickly and the players seem to be struggling to create any real chances, instead time and time again, opting for the long diagonal ball. These are real problems and they are not new. At this stage, Moores ideas should be getting stronger and players should be getting more in tune with this system and way of playing, however i believe it is going the other way which is a major concern.

His use of subs is awful. Simple as that. You can not argue with the fact we are a big fish in this league and when the game is in the balance, we should be making bold changes in an effort to win the game. Robson Kanu has not put in a single good performance and yet is always first shout.

I dont expect us to win every game and romp the league but i do think that those who think this is a little blip are refusing to accept that these problems are not going away and 15 games in, i do not believe we have put in a good performance over 90 minutes.

Totally accept your point. But equally in the context of last year, the squad, his experience, and the difficulty of this league, in my view a lot of the vitriol is totally unwarranted.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on October 27, 2018, 07:05:54 PM
Darren Moore isn’t perfect and has made mistakes but a look on social media and comments I read from a lot of “fans” are embarrassing. Not thoughtful or a “critique” just vitriolic abuse. I am convinced people have never played football or haven’t studied the games. I have loved football since I was a kid but the “modern fan”’ is putting me off.
Can we put to bed the myth he inherited a “great squad” he didn’t. The board didn’t back him and he’s had 1 transfer window. Everyone of our players not in the team is now a world beater. People couldn’t wait to get rid of Nyom now he’s a huge loss. Burke is a goalscoring machine (against Rushall Olympic and u23 teams).
I wouldn’t play HRK but he has scored off the bench and is actually a forward so it’s not such a ridiculous decision. Mears didn’t play today but I’m sure today was his fault.
I also find it amusing that trying to score past 10 men is now the managers fault. The fact the players couldn’t surely is some of their responsibility.
The amazing thing is it’s not yet November and people are calling for his head...the joys of modern football.

Great Post.

I don't think for a second DM thought he'd scratching around for freebies when he took the job

Our squad is not the best and our bench is pathetic imo.

I hope we can be in or close to the play offs in Jan and then strengthen with a box to box mf and a commanding ch to replace Bartley.

Reality bit me a while back and I think it will dawn on others soon that DM is doing his best whilst getting no support from cost cutter Jenkins.

We tracked woods all summer.and Stoke lose their couple of games and they buy him straight away.

Lot is expected now from Dowling to find what we need.

It's also sad how our "acclaimed" youth team cannot produce as good or better than mears and hoolahan.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on October 27, 2018, 07:19:19 PM
Great Post.

I don't think for a second DM thought he'd scratching around for freebies when he took the job

Our squad is not the best and our bench is pathetic imo.

I hope we can be in or close to the play offs in Jan and then strengthen with a box to box mf and a commanding ch to replace Bartley.

Reality bit me a while back and I think it will dawn on others soon that DM is doing his best whilst getting no support from cost cutter Jenkins.

We tracked woods all summer.and Stoke lose their couple of games and they buy him straight away.

Lot is expected now from Dowling to find what we need.

It's also sad how our "acclaimed" youth team cannot produce as good or better than mears and hoolahan.

Could it be argued that in signing Mears and Hoolahan that he’s actually given the board a get out of jail card ? Moore will never be in a stronger position due to the levels of goodwill he has been afforded so he could have said no to either and been cute with the media to portray his dissatisfaction with either . He has also had ample opportunity to play some of the younger players but has chose not to.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albertbaggie on October 27, 2018, 07:24:35 PM
another windup merchant. we should be doing much better than this against an injury hit side. we are punching well under our weight
Really? I'd say he's doing as well as he can with a very average squad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 1954 on October 27, 2018, 07:28:13 PM
Unnecessary comment. We were injury hit too. You'll be one of those who thinks that we should walk this league and that anything less than a win is a reason to dig out Moore. This league isn't like that. Have you forgotten the absolute shambles of last year? Have you forgotten that he inherited this squad from Pulis and the shambles of a board that were sacked. Wake up. Support the team and let's see where we end up. One thing for certain is that constantly moaning is unhelpful to what we are all trying to achieve.
It's the present board(I.e. Jenkins) that's a shambles! Signing overage deadbeats on freebies like Mears & Hoolahan, not to mention just banking the Chadli £12million when instead we should have backed the manager & signed some quality players to get us promoted at the first attempt.
Give me the previous board any day. At least they showed some ambition & tried to sign some quality players even if they didn't all come off. The real mistake that Board made was renewing Pulis's contract at the end of the season when we could have recruited Hodgson instead.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 1954 on October 27, 2018, 07:29:59 PM
Great Post.

I don't think for a second DM thought he'd scratching around for freebies when he took the job

Our squad is not the best and our bench is pathetic imo.

I hope we can be in or close to the play offs in Jan and then strengthen with a box to box mf and a commanding ch to replace Bartley.

Reality bit me a while back and I think it will dawn on others soon that DM is doing his best whilst getting no support from cost cutter Jenkins.

We tracked woods all summer.and Stoke lose their couple of games and they buy him straight away.

Lot is expected now from Dowling to find what we need.

It's also sad how our "acclaimed" youth team cannot produce as good or better than mears and hoolahan.
Spot on. My feelings exactly.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on October 27, 2018, 07:37:46 PM
I have to say that i think some fans are looking back with Rose tinted specs. The last board made some shocking decisions and when they said "we wanted 5 players and we have signed 5 players", that seemed to sum up their knowledge of football.

I'm upset we haven't signed any real quality, but we do need to be careful not to do a Villa. We can't spend loads only to fail to return to the PL. It's a catch 22 really.

If i was in charge I'd be telling DM to mix it up and to drop some of the dross like Mears and Kanu. The sooner Bartley goes the better in my opinion. He's worse than Meite.

I'm still yet to see a game where we actually play a thorough game of football. In the matches I've seen, we lack character and don't seem to know what to do with the ball. It's ok DM saying that the games come thick and fast in this league but he doesn't seem to be learning much, considering how much he says we have to learn.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on October 27, 2018, 07:48:34 PM
I have to say that i think some fans are looking back with Rose tinted specs. The last board made some shocking decisions and when they said "we wanted 5 players and we have signed 5 players", that seemed to sum up their knowledge of football.

I'm upset we haven't signed any real quality, but we do need to be careful not to do a Villa. We can't spend loads only to fail to return to the PL. It's a catch 22 really.

If i was in charge I'd be telling DM to mix it up and to drop some of the dross like Mears and Kanu. The sooner Bartley goes the better in my opinion. He's worse than Meite.

I'm still yet to see a game where we actually play a thorough game of football. In the matches I've seen, we lack character and don't seem to know what to do with the ball. It's ok DM saying that the games come thick and fast in this league but he doesn't seem to be learning much, considering how much he says we have to learn.

Moore won’t drop Mears mate . He’s one of his best mates and Moore is responsible for bringing him here .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 27, 2018, 08:04:05 PM
It's the present board(I.e. Jenkins) that's a shambles! Signing overage deadbeats on freebies like Mears & Hoolahan, not to mention just banking the Chadli £12million when instead we should have backed the manager & signed some quality players to get us promoted at the first attempt.
Give me the previous board any day. At least they showed some ambition & tried to sign some quality players even if they didn't all come off. The real mistake that Board made was renewing Pulis's contract at the end of the season when we could have recruited Hodgson instead.

The previous board failed. They would have us demoted in no time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on October 27, 2018, 08:07:34 PM
Moore won’t drop Mears mate . He’s one of his best mates and Moore is responsible for bringing him here .

Mears was dropped today. I don't think he signed him because of their frienship, rather because of the fact we made derisory bids for ayling and tavernier according to the press.

He's back up to mp and his playing contract will thankfully end in Jan.

What should be more concerning imo is not their friendship, but the brummie booing their own keeper in the first half.

What the hell is that all about?

He's a youngish player and he's need building up not being booed because he is not taking his kicks quick enough.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 1954 on October 27, 2018, 08:35:10 PM
The previous board failed. They would have us demoted in no time.
Surely you are not saying you prefer Jenkins?! If so you are backing his decisions to sign useless overage freebies Mears & Hoolahan! Any idiot can cut costs & not allow the manager to sign players that actually cost money. Why is it we never have an ambitious board ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on October 27, 2018, 11:56:50 PM
Needs to work on his subs. Too many "like" for "like" changes. Changes are usually overly conservative.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on October 28, 2018, 01:15:38 AM
First time I've said this but I can see him being gone by the new year unless he has a serious re-think about the way he approaches games moving forward. The fact that he is an Albion hero means absolutely zilch to me.

If this 3-4-1-2 doesn't go, I predict he will.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: koren on October 28, 2018, 05:12:32 AM
Hope he can trust the young players more.

Burke deserves few minutes in yesterday game with his recent good form in u23.
The last sub should be him rather than HRK.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on October 28, 2018, 07:51:36 AM
Repeating myself but 3 at the back doesn't suit us at all , the players look unsuited to it .
Quite possibly the best winger in the division is wasted at wing back and can't defend anyway , Dawson our best defender for me looks lost although better in the centre against Blackburn .
Bartley should have been dropped but although poor since signing for us I've seen him play very well in a flat 4 .
I believe we have better player's than what we are seeing although I respect and understand why Moore is still trying to bed in the system ...it just isn't for me at all .
The majority wanted a change from Irvine / Pulis type football , it wasn't going to happen over night especially with a rookie manager. First bad patch , lets see what happens .
That 3 at that back needs to go though!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on October 28, 2018, 10:35:04 AM
Moore is starting to pee me off, how bad do some of these players have to play before their dropped? Besides injuries has he given any of the fringe player's a shout I think not. 15 games in and still we have the same problems what the hell are they doing on the training pitch? Haven't seen a  decent performance from this lot yet.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on October 28, 2018, 10:39:34 AM
Moore is starting to pee me off, how bad do some of these players have to play before their dropped? Besides injuries has he given any of the fringe player's a shout I think not. 15 games in and still we have the same problems what the hell are they doing on the training pitch? Haven't seen a  decent performance from this lot yet.

Its OK dropping player but there is no quality underneath.

We have four centre backs - three play and one of whom is injured.

Phillips has Mears has his understudy.

Gibbs has Townsend.

Its a mixture of Brunt, Barry, Livermore and then Morrison whenever he is fit.

Rodriguez and Gayle have Sako and HRK.

Burke clearly is not fancied.

So I can understand why Moore doesn't ring the changes. What should be changed is our formation but because we do not have a right back we have to persist with the three centre halves.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on October 28, 2018, 10:40:58 AM
Hope he can trust the young players more.

Burke deserves few minutes in yesterday game with his recent good form in u23.
The last sub should be him rather than HRK.

I can't work out why the coaching staff still think Robson-Kanu is a better 20 minute impact choice than a player like Burke, Leko or Edwards. Only reason I can think is that he is a nice bloke and so that has blindsided them.

Robson-Kanu from the bench is only really worth it if defending a lead and wanting the ball to stick further up the pitch. If needing a goal, it is surely better to change the system rather that just the "like for like, centre forward for centee forward, central midfielder for central midfielder" changes Moore makes. Burke is scoring goals for fun at under 23 level, Leko is also getting goals while Edwards was at his best for Exeter last year coming off the bench.

As for the 3 at the back, we have had 1 clean sheet all season. Teams with our defensive record rarely get promoted. The only way I can think to improve our defence is to go flat back 4, and then mix up the midfield and forward lune into a more attacking set up (a different variant of 451 or 433).


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on October 28, 2018, 11:39:51 AM
I said a while ago, the problem i think Moore has is we are aiming for a short term goal.

I dont know but had he gone in to his interview in the summer and said he wanted to build and develop a team using the young players at the club (which he has experience of working with) and that it may take time, i think the board may of thought you have no experience of doing that, yet we are also interviewing Dean Smith, a bloke who has done that same job with two other clubs, we will give him the job.

Instead they probably said we want the bloke who can get us promoted, we arent interested in 3 or 5 year plans, we brought this club for £150m and so we want to get back there by hook or by crook ASAP and start getting our money back and earning something from our investment.

On paper we have a number of very good players for this level - Johnstone, Dawson, Hegazi, Gibbs, Phillips, Livermore, Brunt, Gayle, JRod, Sako, Barnes, those players should ensure you are near the top part of the league (which we are)

We also have some good backup players too, the problem we have is that our squad is quite lopsided and after 15 games we still havent found the right system and tactics to accomodate the above players, yet we are still 5th in the league.

The issue seems to be that teams have now worked out how to play against us and we dont really seem to have an alternative way of playing, i like the footballing approach and i want us to continue with that regardless, i dont think we need to completely overhaul how we play, we just need to tweak things a bit.

Some obvious things, playing players in their correct and proven positions, even if that means switching formation for a bit, if we have visions of 3-5-2 then thats fine, but lets wait until we have players who can play that way.

I think it does seem to be Jones who is pushing the 3-5-2, again thats fine but if things dont work out, Big Dave will be the one who takes the fall and has a sacking in his CV, Jones will go and get an assistant managers job elsewhere, its not as easy to get the main job, i think i heard the other day, 50% of managers who get sacked in their first job dont get another job in the same role.

There was a bloke who is seems quite spot on with the Albion stuff who said the current setup is similar to the RDM days, RDM was the public face but it was Eddie Newton who did all the planning, tactics, etc and apparently its the same now with Big Dave the Public face and Jones the 'brains'. However, Mooro has to standup to Jones IF he is the one insisting on the 3-5-2, its easy to get starry eyed by Jones CV and he is obviously a very good coach but its quite apprarent that the 3-5-2 isnt for us at the moment, when we win, we win well but teams were always going to wise up against us and that time has now come.

There may be some truth to that because we played 4-4-2 all preseason and signed defensive players to suit in Bartley and Johnstone, it dont take a genius to see the way we play now doesnt suit Bartley, and Johnstone said himself in a interview in the week that he has never played this way before, which begs the question, if we were always going to go to 3-5-2, why didnt we sign players in the summer who could play it?!

We have gone for short term fixes, likes of Sako and Hoolahan who will come in and do a job and it may be enough to get us over line come May, If we had come out and said we are starting again, youth will come in i think the fans would of brought into that and there would of been patience, however because on paper we have still a very strong group of players, rightly or wrongly there is an expectation now and i think crowd reactions show that, yesterday after 25 minutes fans were booing and jeering Johnstone.

It was frustration because i do think after 8 years in the premier league there is a undercurrent of entitlement that we should blitz everyone, but also there is frustration because thousands of people can see the way we are currently playing from the back is not quite right and if they can see it, why cant the coaches.  There is a nervous atmosphere which goes from players to fans and vice versa.

Its new territory, under RDM there were some hostile games, i think that season both Olsson and Carson had a few run ins with fans, but we still yoyoing at the time. Even under Mowbray, as great as that season of promotion was, we still took some hidings, Leicester and Coventry at home, losing to Colchester away spring to mind so it wastn all roses, but again we were in the yoyo years, now after been an established premier league club, there is a generation of fans who have got used to that, i probably do it myself at times without realising.

One final thing is based on yesterday, Mowbray seems to of learnt that you cant always just play ideal football, he had players missing, he dealt with and his game management was spot on, sadly for him it took a couple of sackings at Celtic and Middlesboro to probably realise that ideal football doesnt always win, i hope for Big Daves sake that he realises that now rather than when he is too late because i have a feeling if come the new year we were around the halfway mark, the board will get rid and spunk a load of money on a promotion specialist, ie - Allardyce or Warnock type and i really dont want that as we would go back to square one in terms of football.

I like what Big Dave wants to do and think he is doing decent, i just hope now he is facing the first dip in his managerial career, he learns whats wrong and deals with it rather than carrying on with something that isnt right.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on October 28, 2018, 04:52:04 PM
He's still not learning is he? Same problems again yesterday.

Regarding his post-match comments, I know somebody who's been going up since the '70's, and his words sum it up best: "I've been going to football for years, don't tell me I haven't seen what I've seen. Don't insult my intelligence. Protect your players fine, but don't lie to me".
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on October 28, 2018, 05:11:36 PM
He's a nice bloke but his comments after games do him no favours, he just rambles on with cliches and some absolute garbage at times
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 28, 2018, 05:34:22 PM
He's still not learning is he? Same problems again yesterday.

Regarding his post-match comments, I know somebody who's been going up since the '70's, and his words sum it up best: "I've been going to football for years, don't tell me I haven't seen what I've seen. Don't insult my intelligence. Protect your players fine, but don't lie to me".

Maybe Moore is being honest from his perspective, just as your friend is from his perspective?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 28, 2018, 05:48:24 PM
I said a while ago, the problem i think Moore has is we are aiming for a short term goal.

I dont know but had he gone in to his interview in the summer and said he wanted to build and develop a team using the young players at the club (which he has experience of working with) and that it may take time, i think the board may of thought you have no experience of doing that, yet we are also interviewing Dean Smith, a bloke who has done that same job with two other clubs, we will give him the job.

Instead they probably said we want the bloke who can get us promoted, we arent interested in 3 or 5 year plans, we brought this club for £150m and so we want to get back there by hook or by crook ASAP and start getting our money back and earning something from our investment.

On paper we have a number of very good players for this level - Johnstone, Dawson, Hegazi, Gibbs, Phillips, Livermore, Brunt, Gayle, JRod, Sako, Barnes, those players should ensure you are near the top part of the league (which we are)

We also have some good backup players too, the problem we have is that our squad is quite lopsided and after 15 games we still havent found the right system and tactics to accomodate the above players, yet we are still 5th in the league.

The issue seems to be that teams have now worked out how to play against us and we dont really seem to have an alternative way of playing, i like the footballing approach and i want us to continue with that regardless, i dont think we need to completely overhaul how we play, we just need to tweak things a bit.

Some obvious things, playing players in their correct and proven positions, even if that means switching formation for a bit, if we have visions of 3-5-2 then thats fine, but lets wait until we have players who can play that way.

I think it does seem to be Jones who is pushing the 3-5-2, again thats fine but if things dont work out, Big Dave will be the one who takes the fall and has a sacking in his CV, Jones will go and get an assistant managers job elsewhere, its not as easy to get the main job, i think i heard the other day, 50% of managers who get sacked in their first job dont get another job in the same role.

There was a bloke who is seems quite spot on with the Albion stuff who said the current setup is similar to the RDM days, RDM was the public face but it was Eddie Newton who did all the planning, tactics, etc and apparently its the same now with Big Dave the Public face and Jones the 'brains'. However, Mooro has to standup to Jones IF he is the one insisting on the 3-5-2, its easy to get starry eyed by Jones CV and he is obviously a very good coach but its quite apprarent that the 3-5-2 isnt for us at the moment, when we win, we win well but teams were always going to wise up against us and that time has now come.

There may be some truth to that because we played 4-4-2 all preseason and signed defensive players to suit in Bartley and Johnstone, it dont take a genius to see the way we play now doesnt suit Bartley, and Johnstone said himself in a interview in the week that he has never played this way before, which begs the question, if we were always going to go to 3-5-2, why didnt we sign players in the summer who could play it?!

We have gone for short term fixes, likes of Sako and Hoolahan who will come in and do a job and it may be enough to get us over line come May, If we had come out and said we are starting again, youth will come in i think the fans would of brought into that and there would of been patience, however because on paper we have still a very strong group of players, rightly or wrongly there is an expectation now and i think crowd reactions show that, yesterday after 25 minutes fans were booing and jeering Johnstone.

It was frustration because i do think after 8 years in the premier league there is a undercurrent of entitlement that we should blitz everyone, but also there is frustration because thousands of people can see the way we are currently playing from the back is not quite right and if they can see it, why cant the coaches.  There is a nervous atmosphere which goes from players to fans and vice versa.

Its new territory, under RDM there were some hostile games, i think that season both Olsson and Carson had a few run ins with fans, but we still yoyoing at the time. Even under Mowbray, as great as that season of promotion was, we still took some hidings, Leicester and Coventry at home, losing to Colchester away spring to mind so it wastn all roses, but again we were in the yoyo years, now after been an established premier league club, there is a generation of fans who have got used to that, i probably do it myself at times without realising.

One final thing is based on yesterday, Mowbray seems to of learnt that you cant always just play ideal football, he had players missing, he dealt with and his game management was spot on, sadly for him it took a couple of sackings at Celtic and Middlesboro to probably realise that ideal football doesnt always win, i hope for Big Daves sake that he realises that now rather than when he is too late because i have a feeling if come the new year we were around the halfway mark, the board will get rid and spunk a load of money on a promotion specialist, ie - Allardyce or Warnock type and i really dont want that as we would go back to square one in terms of football.

I like what Big Dave wants to do and think he is doing decent, i just hope now he is facing the first dip in his managerial career, he learns whats wrong and deals with it rather than carrying on with something that isnt right.

Excellent, thoughtful post.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 28, 2018, 05:52:37 PM
He's still not learning is he? Same problems again yesterday.

Regarding his post-match comments, I know somebody who's been going up since the '70's, and his words sum it up best: "I've been going to football for years, don't tell me I haven't seen what I've seen. Don't insult my intelligence. Protect your players fine, but don't lie to me".


Perception.


No one is telling lies.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on October 28, 2018, 05:59:04 PM
He seems to me to be in a tough situation. An up and coming coach who is basically learning as he goes along. We had experienced coaches like Tony Pulis and Alan Pardew and look where it got us. We don't have a god given right to go straight back up as some people on here seem to think. In my opinion this is one of the toughest leagues in the world.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on October 28, 2018, 06:26:53 PM
I don’t buy this thing about being inexperienced and learning.

Derby’s Lampard looked like he made errors early on which are now being rectified.  We look as if we are going backwards.

15 games in you wouldn’t thought he would’ve nailed a starting 11 and decided which players excel at this level and the ones that look out of their depth.  There can be no sentiment whatsoever. 

You are talking about someone being paid about £2m a year to do a job.  Some of our recent Managers have shown they hardly have any more idea than the man in the street.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on October 28, 2018, 06:38:10 PM
I don’t buy this thing about being inexperienced and learning.

Derby’s Lampard looked like he made errors early on which are now being rectified.  We look as if we are going backwards.

15 games in you wouldn’t thought he would’ve nailed a starting 11 and decided which players excel at this level and the ones that look out of their depth.  There can be no sentiment whatsoever. 

You are talking about someone being paid about £2m a year to do a job.  Some of our recent Managers have shown they hardly have any more idea than the man in the street.

I think you have basically contradicted yourself there GREGMT. I may be wrong though!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: east-stand-nick on October 28, 2018, 09:13:31 PM
He's a nice bloke but his comments after games do him no favours, he just rambles on with cliches and some absolute garbage at times

The number of cliches is embarrassing, it's as if he's parodying a stereotypical football interview.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on October 28, 2018, 09:58:58 PM
He's a nice bloke but his comments after games do him no favours, he just rambles on with cliches and some absolute garbage at times

His post match interviews are the biggest insight into how he is. They are truly embarrassing. We need to change the formation, it just is not working
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on October 28, 2018, 10:00:35 PM
I can't work out why the coaching staff still think Robson-Kanu is a better 20 minute impact choice than a player like Burke, Leko or Edwards.

Nail, hammer, head.

Utterly ridiculous that the coaching staff can't see the blindingly obvious.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on October 28, 2018, 10:06:08 PM
I think we've been found out a bit under Moore - whereas at the start of the season he was still unknown in management.

For instance, both Wigan and Derby recently scored goals from a long-ball goalkick. Both were cheap mistakes, very similar and something which was clearly no coincidence.

More worrying is the closing down of Barnes. Against Derby and Blackburn he still had influence, but not complete domination in other games.

Thirdly, we are now being pressed much more when our back 3 have the ball, which leads to mistakes and problems.

All these weren't known problems 1-2 months ago, but now we're on tape, it seems more clear what we're about. What will define Moore is how he deals with this and whether he can solve this problem.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on October 29, 2018, 09:51:22 AM
I've been away for around 6 weeks so have only seen things from afar. What looked quite promising has now turned into a bit of a problem. I think we managed to win the early games we did as we took some teams by surprise and they possibly held us in awe - premier league and all that!
However it seems that we've now been found out and our style is too predictable. I heard somewhere that Lampard used the International break to practice playing against a 3 at the back set up as Derby were playing Sheff Utd, us and Middlesborough in their next games. If that is true then it shows proper preparation for matches and along with that it brings results. I saw the Derby game and to be fair we were embarrassing. Would have hoped for changes on Saturday, not necessarily with players but in formation and set up. That didn't happen and we know the outcome. 3 at the back doesn't really work for us as we don't have the right playing staff to do it and it inhibits the players we have who can use speed and attacking threat. And to be fair some of our squad is quite ordinary.
The next 3 games will impact hugely on our season. Logic says we should win against Hull and Ipswich. I would also hope we will give a good account of ourselves against Leeds and send a message out that we are back and kicking.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 29, 2018, 10:10:00 AM
I've been away for around 6 weeks so have only seen things from afar. What looked quite promising has now turned into a bit of a problem. I think we managed to win the early games we did as we took some teams by surprise and they possibly held us in awe - premier league and all that!
However it seems that we've now been found out and our style is too predictable. I heard somewhere that Lampard used the International break to practice playing against a 3 at the back set up as Derby were playing Sheff Utd, us and Middlesborough in their next games. If that is true then it shows proper preparation for matches and along with that it brings results. I saw the Derby game and to be fair we were embarrassing. Would have hoped for changes on Saturday, not necessarily with players but in formation and set up. That didn't happen and we know the outcome. 3 at the back doesn't really work for us as we don't have the right playing staff to do it and it inhibits the players we have who can use speed and attacking threat. And to be fair some of our squad is quite ordinary.
The next 3 games will impact hugely on our season. Logic says we should win against Hull and Ipswich. I would also hope we will give a good account of ourselves against Leeds and send a message out that we are back and kicking.


I will have a pint of what you are on........ ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VVVAlbion on October 29, 2018, 12:40:41 PM
Personally I'm not surprised at the criticism of Moore but dissapointed by it.

We finished rock bottom of the Premier League last season and, let's face it, would have been well adrift had Moore not convinced his players to turn up towards the end of the season. Historically,  have a look at the teams that have finished bottom and see the position they are in now (or were after relegation) and I'm fairly sure we are above all of them.  Of the starting line up on Saturday 6 are new to the team (7 if you count Morrison  ;D) and the style we try  (:D )to play is a long way from the one dimensional, do one job, yawn football that we have been used to. To even be challenging at this point should be seen as an achievement in my opinion.

I understand the frustration at persisting with playing out from the back when it appears to be hampering our progress but i'd rather struggle and improve (I'd be looking at changing personnel, in my opinion Bartley and Hegazi don't appear to be capable ball players and Dawson is struggling, out of form, possibly mentally?) rather than revert to the hoof to a holding striker (who would have to be HRK as nobody else is)

With regards to his substitutions,  some work, some don't, some are enforced, some are not but those not forced upon us are generally done to change an aspect of play which isn't working and not just like for like as has been an issue in our recent history.

We are in transition,  we have not been particularly backed in the transfer market and for me, we are doing better than expected.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on October 29, 2018, 12:42:08 PM
Trouble is, the playing out from the back isn't improving though.  We seem to be just as bad at it now, except we have the added problem that teams know what we're going to do.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on October 29, 2018, 12:46:45 PM
His post match interviews are the biggest insight into how he is. They are truly embarrassing. We need to change the formation, it just is not working

Not with this squad thats for sure.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on October 29, 2018, 12:50:25 PM
Perception.


No one is telling lies.

If his comments after the Derby match were how he actually saw it, then I fear for us this season. We were second best all over the park - to say the only difference between the teams was the finishing was bull.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on October 29, 2018, 01:26:06 PM
His bedding in period is now over.
Like you say some of his after match comments are bewildering.
If he wasn't Darren Moore he would be slated on these boards, I expect that will come later in the season.
He must see that the playing three at the back puts untold pressure on those three players for the simple reason that they are uncomfortable in that system, and the reason they have to keep playing the ball backwards is that the central midfield players fail to show for the pass so the ball has to go back.
Like others have said teams have us worked out, put pressure on the back 3 when we have the ball and a mistake will surely follow.
We're too slow and predictable, other teams have worked out who our danger men are and just concentrate on marking them out of the game.
Stop Barnes and Gayle and we're stuffed having then to bring on Mears and HRK in a remarkable duet.
I never wish ill on any player ours or any one else's but I do hope that both of these are replaced in January.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on October 29, 2018, 03:31:58 PM
With regards the 3 central players at the back are uncomfortable, and cant play the ball out of defence - That's still the case in a back 4. Are we actually accepting that the well paid players cant pass a ball 20 yards?? I don't think we had to money to go out and spend in the summer, so we were left with what we got - 2nd rate players. Jenkins will continue to keep a tight rain on spending, so I don't expect much come January. In theory, if a team look to mark our best players out the game, it should open up for other players?? It's 11 v 11, and we need to find ways to win when teams try to close us down. Allegedly we have one of the best squads in the league. We need to attack with more urgency, not let the opposition settle. Basically WE should be dictating the game, not the opponents. We are still only a few games into the season, trying to implement an entirely new system, that 99% of us were begging for. Sort the back 3 and I think its a decent system.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on October 29, 2018, 04:18:50 PM
His bedding in period is now over.
Like you say some of his after match comments are bewildering.
If he wasn't Darren Moore he would be slated on these boards,
I expect that will come later in the season.
He must see that the playing three at the back puts untold pressure on those three players for the simple reason that they are uncomfortable in that system, and the reason they have to keep playing the ball backwards is that the central midfield players fail to show for the pass so the ball has to go back.
Like others have said teams have us worked out, put pressure on the back 3 when we have the ball and a mistake will surely follow.
We're too slow and predictable, other teams have worked out who our danger men are and just concentrate on marking them out of the game.
Stop Barnes and Gayle and we're stuffed having then to bring on Mears and HRK in a remarkable duet.
I never wish ill on any player ours or any one else's but I do hope that both of these are replaced in January.

You've written what I thought, though I didn't know how to put into words.

If this was any other manager, he would be being torn to shreds by now, even at this stage of the season. Too many "if's" in that sentence, I know, but stands true. His comments are becoming dull and predictable, which I think leads fans into thinking he doesn't know what he's talking about. Personally, I don't know how many more things professionals need to "learn" to take into the next game.

I think if we were good value for money, performance-wise, I doubt many would have a problem with our current position (5th). But aside from Barnes & Gayle, I've not seen any other player who has shown real quality, at least not consistently, which in turn makes our overall performances look a sham. And with his reluctance to drop Mears, it doesn't make for pretty viewing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on October 29, 2018, 04:53:39 PM
What the season, so far, shows is that it's not difficult to compete in this league, as the overall quality is poor and with the quality of our squad, we will win more than we lose. The (incredibly) difficult bit is getting out of it though and to do that you have to be solid, consistent and adaptable. We are none of these at present.
That doesn't mean we can't be though and hopefully these last 3 games, coupled with Bartley's suspension, will prompt Moore and Jones to re-evaluate and ring the changes. After all, it doesn't require major surgery, we are doing ok, just a few subtle tweaks and a bit of faith in youth and we could have it wrapped up with games to spare.
The football and entertainment is a vast improvement on the previous dinosaurs, Moore and Jones just need to prove that they can adapt quickly when things take a turn and not bury their heads in the sand, hoping for a miracle.
For what it's worth, i truly believe they will and this will be a season to remember.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on October 29, 2018, 07:18:09 PM
The thing about three at the back is you need five in midfield to complement it. We don't play that way we play with four across the middle with Barnes playing in a number ten role. Barnes never drops in to a five so if a team plays 3-5-2, 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 against us we are still always outnumbered in the middle of the park. Even 4-4-2 we never have a man over.

3-4-1-2 may work in international football to some extent and with certain personnel but I question whether any team will ever make it work over a season in a league like the Championship. This league is unrelenting, it's a grind and you have to battle and win by scrapping it out at times, even Wolves who ran away with the league last season had to do it that way at times. You cannot grind wins out playing the way we play.

I agree with a previous comment, if it wasn't Darren Moore in charge the head coach would be getting a much rougher ride. We have Hull City next, that is a game we will be expected to win then following that we have Leeds coming to the Hawthorns. If we lose both those games (and the Leeds game is a very tough one on paper) then I think the mood amongst even the most supportive of supporters is going to darken considerably.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on October 30, 2018, 08:39:57 AM
Would another manager really get a rough ride?
Were top six lad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on October 30, 2018, 08:56:32 AM
Were top six lad.

"were top six" will be accurate soon.  ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on October 30, 2018, 05:23:51 PM
So what is the answer to my question?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 30, 2018, 07:11:41 PM
Just flabbergasting comments on here. Can’t wait to see what manager everyone thinks will arrive here to replace Moore and walk the league. This place has become the most incredibly negative forum.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on October 30, 2018, 08:02:46 PM
Just flabbergasting comments on here. Can’t wait to see what manager everyone thinks will arrive here to replace Moore and walk the league. This place has become the most incredibly negative forum.
Colin...He luvs us.  :o
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on October 30, 2018, 09:05:24 PM
Just flabbergasting comments on here. Can’t wait to see what manager everyone thinks will arrive here to replace Moore and walk the league. This place has become the most incredibly negative forum.

This past week has shown up a number of issues with the team that need addressing. If we can't offer constructive criticism and voice our opinion of them, then what is the point of even having a forum?

Supporting a team means wanting what's best for it, and sometimes that means you have to be as prepared to point out its weaknesses as praise its strengths.

I don't think I've seen one person here suggest we should be walking the league, but I think we all want to push and finish as high as possible.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 31, 2018, 06:21:27 AM
This past week has shown up a number of issues with the team that need addressing. If we can't offer constructive criticism and voice our opinion of them, then what is the point of even having a forum?

Supporting a team means wanting what's best for it, and sometimes that means you have to be as prepared to point out its weaknesses as praise its strengths.

I don't think I've seen one person here suggest we should be walking the league, but I think we all want to push and finish as high as possible.

I’m seeing very little praise at all.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: east-stand-nick on October 31, 2018, 09:22:29 AM
I’m seeing very little praise at all.

There's been plenty for Barnes and Gayle and rightly so, because without them we'd be midtable at best.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on October 31, 2018, 09:50:51 AM
Just flabbergasting comments on here. Can’t wait to see what manager everyone thinks will arrive here to replace Moore and walk the league. This place has become the most incredibly negative forum.


I would much prefer that to continually being told to be positive by you despite the glaring deficiencies that the majority are now raising which, if we are to stand any chance of finishing in the top two as we should, need to be addressed by those much higher up than us on here. I’ll be positive when I see something to be positive about, which is not us being outplayed every game as we have been throughout this season despite having far better players than most
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on October 31, 2018, 11:39:26 AM
There's been plenty for Barnes and Gayle and rightly so, because without them we'd be midtable at best.
We knew about Gayle but Barnes was a Moore find in all fairness .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 31, 2018, 11:53:27 AM
There's been plenty for Barnes and Gayle and rightly so, because without them we'd be midtable at best.

I think he meant praise for Darren Moore.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on October 31, 2018, 11:53:58 AM
We knew about Gayle but Barnes was a Moore find in all fairness .
He must have found him before he was lost.
Barnes was on loan last season at Barnsley and got rave reviews.
I suspect Moore might still have a contact at Barnsley after spending 2 years as a player there.
There's the tie in.
Hardly rocket science
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on October 31, 2018, 12:05:02 PM
He must have found him before he was lost.
Barnes was on loan last season at Barnsley and got rave reviews.
I suspect Moore might still have a contact at Barnsley after spending 2 years as a player there.
There's the tie in.
Hardly rocket science
Yes it was but if you ask Leicester fans they'll tell you Barnes had come to a stand still there much like Leko here.
We have limited funds so each deal is a risk , Moore got that one right . The player himself turned down more money elsewhere to play for Moore by all accounts.
I'm as concerned as the next and hate this 3 at the back but I'll give him credit where it's due.
Even the most obvious moves don't work out , Burke for 15m being a example so far.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on October 31, 2018, 01:00:48 PM
I’ve explained why I think we should be more positive than we are. Most don’t agree. I’m flabbergasted by that. It’s really as simple as that.

We are in a good position, trying to do positive things having inherited a dodgy squad at the lowest ebb after an appalling season. To be where we are is more than I expected. We’ve clearly got some issues to iron out but given the context I’m happy. Sorry if that’s a viewpoint that doesn’t match yours.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on October 31, 2018, 01:41:31 PM
I’ve explained why I think we should be more positive than we are. Most don’t agree. I’m flabbergasted by that. It’s really as simple as that.

We are in a good position, trying to do positive things having inherited a dodgy squad at the lowest ebb after an appalling season. To be where we are is more than I expected. We’ve clearly got some issues to iron out but given the context I’m happy. Sorry if that’s a viewpoint that doesn’t match yours.

If the latter part of your post was meant for me then I'm largely in agreement with your general sentiments. I wasn't knocking you, I'm just pointing out this place isn't the most negative Albion forum. And it really isn't.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on November 02, 2018, 09:38:58 AM
There's been plenty for Barnes and Gayle and rightly so, because without them we'd be midtable at best.
Well for starters we wouldn't be playing with 9 men, we would have got others in
Maybe mason mount, maybe extremely lucky and get loftus cheek
Then instead of Gayle we could have had Maja from Sunderland or maupay from Brentford
We could just as easily be better off
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on November 02, 2018, 09:49:56 AM
Well for starters we wouldn't be playing with 9 men, we would have got others in
Maybe mason mount, maybe extremely lucky and get loftus cheek
Then instead of Gayle we could have had Maja from Sunderland or maupay from Brentford
We could just as easily be better off

Yeah, our record in the transfer market makes me think out that we've probably missed a trick signing Barnes and Gayle and we should have held off.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on November 02, 2018, 10:08:07 AM
Well for starters we wouldn't be playing with 9 men, we would have got others in
Maybe mason mount, maybe extremely lucky and get loftus cheek
Then instead of Gayle we could have had Maja from Sunderland or maupay from Brentford
We could just as easily be better off

Is this a serious post zippy? 

Why on earth do you think England International Loftus Cheek would want to come and play for us?

And what has Maupay or Maja got that makes them better than Dwight?

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 02, 2018, 12:37:34 PM
Is this a serious post zippy? 

Why on earth do you think England International Loftus Cheek would want to come and play for us?

And what has Maupay or Maja got that makes them better than Dwight?

Just to play devil's advocate: 11 goals and 4 assists in 13 games in the same league as opposed to 8 goals and 5 assists in 13 games.
I'm more than happy with Gayle and I do think that by the end of the season he will have much better stats than Maupay
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on November 02, 2018, 02:21:46 PM
Just to play devil's advocate: 11 goals and 4 assists in 13 games in the same league as opposed to 8 goals and 5 assists in 13 games.
I'm more than happy with Gayle and I do think that by the end of the season he will have much better stats than Maupay

Maupay is an excellent player Hull, as his record shows, but was he available on loan?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 02, 2018, 02:26:30 PM
Maupay is an excellent player Hul, as his record shows, but was he available on loan?
Don't know, but he would have been available to buy, maybe as buy to loan? We made a big offer for Dack and someone else who's name escapes me so the money would have been there for Maupay I'm sure.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on November 02, 2018, 02:56:49 PM
Don't know, but he would have been available to buy, maybe as buy to loan? We made a big offer for Dack and someone else who's name escapes me so the money would have been there for Maupay I'm sure.

Tavernier from Rangers I believe.

Maupay is certainly on fire this year, but at the time we recruited Gayle we would not have known how good Maupay was going to be  unless we had been seriously scouting him. His record last year is 42 appearances with 12 goals, so for me saying we could have got Maupay or the other chap is great in hindsight.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 02, 2018, 03:58:00 PM
I’ve explained why I think we should be more positive than we are. Most don’t agree. I’m flabbergasted by that. It’s really as simple as that.

We are in a good position, trying to do positive things having inherited a dodgy squad at the lowest ebb after an appalling season. To be where we are is more than I expected. We’ve clearly got some issues to iron out but given the context I’m happy. Sorry if that’s a viewpoint that doesn’t match yours.

I appreciate the reasons as to why you are positive, but that isn't the issue here. The issue here is that you and a couple of others are criticising other fans, who happen to be the majority from what I can see, for not agreeing with your position and you are saying it week in week out. I have no issue with your positivity, I disagree entirely and have seen enough in Darren to see that he is not cut out for this, but you are entitled to feel that way, just like I and others are to speak negatively about what we are watching without criticism from you and others.

Disagree with me by all means, but don't criticise others for giving an opinion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 02, 2018, 04:02:54 PM
Tavernier from Rangers I believe.

Maupay is certainly on fire this year, but at the time we recruited Gayle we would not have known how good Maupay was going to be  unless we had been seriously scouting him. His record last year is 42 appearances with 12 goals, so for me saying we could have got Maupay or the other chap is great in hindsight.

I was merely replying to your original question about what had Maupay got the Gayle hasn't, whether we would have been in for him is immaterial really as this wasn't the question you originally asked.
The fact that we made big money bids for players (I don't think it was Tavernier as we bid a relatively small amount for him) shows that the money would have been there if we had decided to go for Maupay that's all.
As stated in my original post I'm glad we got Gayle as I expect his stats to be better than Maupay's at the end of the season.

I don't want to get involved in a debate about Gayle and Maupay in what is a thread about Darren Moore. ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 02, 2018, 05:08:27 PM
I appreciate the reasons as to why you are positive, but that isn't the issue here. The issue here is that you and a couple of others are criticising other fans, who happen to be the majority from what I can see, for not agreeing with your position and you are saying it week in week out. I have no issue with your positivity, I disagree entirely and have seen enough in Darren to see that he is not cut out for this, but you are entitled to feel that way, just like I and others are to speak negatively about what we are watching without criticism from you and others.

Disagree with me by all means, but don't criticise others for giving an opinion.

So what’s the problem. What you are effectively saying is that you can say what you like and I can say what I like. I agree. That’s what we are both doing. Expressing our views and our frustrations. I’m not criticising people for giving an opinion - I’m criticising their opinion - and I stand by it. It’s fine by me to carry on as we are.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 02, 2018, 05:15:00 PM
Yeah, our record in the transfer market makes me think out that we've probably missed a trick signing Barnes and Gayle and we should have held off.

Is that a tongue in cheek comment? These are the two players that many are hailing as our best players and using them as another stick to batter Moore because they are loan players.

So instead of praising Moore or the club for signing them, we are critical because they are only loan. And now we are saying we could have got better?

This must have been a tongue in cheek comment. Must have been.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 02, 2018, 05:59:45 PM
So what’s the problem. What you are effectively saying is that you can say what you like and I can say what I like. I agree. That’s what we are both doing. Expressing our views and our frustrations. I’m not criticising people for giving an opinion - I’m criticising their opinion - and I stand by it. It’s fine by me to carry on as we are.

Would you honestly testify to that statements veracity in court? I have seen a number of posts to the contrary.

Ultimately, made my point clear on it, we shall see how you post moving forward with it in mind.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on November 02, 2018, 06:17:45 PM
Is this a serious post zippy? 

Why on earth do you think England International Loftus Cheek would want to come and play for us?

And what has Maupay or Maja got that makes them better than Dwight?
It is, but me thinks taken out of context
All I actually meant was the argument that we would be rubbish without x and x doesn't stand up, because we may have got better in....no guarantees but you never know ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 02, 2018, 06:47:11 PM
Would you honestly testify to that statements veracity in court? I have seen a number of posts to the contrary.

Ultimately, made my point clear on it, we shall see how you post moving forward with it in mind.

In what situation would I be in court. Don’t be daft. But it would. Your point makes no difference to what I’ll post on this forum. I’ve said everyone absolutely has the right to express an opinion. And if my opinion is that there is a bizarre level of angst and negativity then I’ll express that opinion. Doesn’t make it right or wrong. I’ll stick to my view and if it changes it will change because I want to change it. I have found you to be fairly negative, and that’s fine, I’m just expressing my view.

I couldn’t stand Pulis, it played out as I had forecast and I’m still on a high following his departure.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 02, 2018, 06:49:34 PM
It is, but me thinks taken out of context
All I actually meant was the argument that we would be rubbish without x and x doesn't stand up, because we may have got better in....no guarantees but you never know ?

Ah I get it. In the end we’ve made two very good loan signings - it’s just a shame that instead of saying well done, we find the negative.

I don’t remember when we signed Kieran Richardson there being so much negativity because he was just a loan - then again there was barely any internet then I suppose.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on November 03, 2018, 10:32:21 AM
Darren is unfortunate in that he has inherited a situation where the fan base has grown impatient with the players who we felt let us down last season and most would have welcomed a complete clear out. Unfortunately football doesn't work like that and even if it did I am certain that the club did not have the capacity to replace virtually a whole squad.

Equally while an assistant of Jones' calibre was probably worth the wait I suspect a lot of the tactical plan turned up after the bulk of the players were in place. If the plan was to play 3 at the back then who in their right mind would sign Kyle Bartley to play on the left of a 3? At least find someone who is left footed even accepting they might not be a world beater when we are a Championship club. I suspect that Bartley had been scouted whilst at Leeds he barely got enough minutes last season for anyone to have a detailed look at him. To some extent that tells you how broken the club had become behind scenes.

None of this is Darren's fault but he has to play the hand he has been dealt which is why at the outset I was of the view that this was no job for a rookie. He needs time but nobody seems to want to give him any. I was often told during the Pulis years wait until he has own players don't rush to judgement etc... I see precious few running the same defence for Darren and frankly what he is attempting is a far greater challenge than anything Pulis did at the club. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 03, 2018, 10:35:37 AM
Darren is unfortunate in that he has inherited a situation where the fan base has grown impatient with the players who we felt let us down last season and most would have welcomed a complete clear out. Unfortunately football doesn't work like that and even if it did I am certain that the club did not have the capacity to replace virtually a whole squad.

Equally while an assistant of Jones' calibre was probably worth the wait I suspect a lot of the tactical plan turned up after the bulk of the players were in place. If the plan was to play 3 at the back then who in their right mind would sign Kyle Bartley to play on the left of a 3? At least find someone who is left footed even accepting they might not be a world beater when we are a Championship club. I suspect that Bartley had been scouted whilst at Leeds he barely got enough minutes last season for anyone to have a detailed look at him. To some extent that tells you how broken the club had become behind scenes.

None of this is Darren's fault but he has to play the hand he has been dealt which is why at the outset I was of the view that this was no job for a rookie. He needs time but nobody seems to want to give him any. I was often told during the Pulis years wait until he has own players don't rush to judgement etc... I see precious few running the same defence for Darren and frankly what he is attempting is a far greater challenge than anything Pulis did at the club.

Excellent post - particularly the last paragraph. Totally agree.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on November 03, 2018, 11:01:02 AM
Darren is unfortunate in that he has inherited a situation where the fan base has grown impatient with the players who we felt let us down last season and most would have welcomed a complete clear out. Unfortunately football doesn't work like that and even if it did I am certain that the club did not have the capacity to replace virtually a whole squad.

Equally while an assistant of Jones' calibre was probably worth the wait I suspect a lot of the tactical plan turned up after the bulk of the players were in place. If the plan was to play 3 at the back then who in their right mind would sign Kyle Bartley to play on the left of a 3? At least find someone who is left footed even accepting they might not be a world beater when we are a Championship club. I suspect that Bartley had been scouted whilst at Leeds he barely got enough minutes last season for anyone to have a detailed look at him. To some extent that tells you how broken the club had become behind scenes.

None of this is Darren's fault but he has to play the hand he has been dealt which is why at the outset I was of the view that this was no job for a rookie. He needs time but nobody seems to want to give him any. I was often told during the Pulis years wait until he has own players don't rush to judgement etc... I see precious few running the same defence for Darren and frankly what he is attempting is a far greater challenge than anything Pulis did at the club.

I have a lot of sympathy with your comments Stan, but I find it difficult to believe that there wasn't a conversation taking place between Darren Moore & Graeme Jones during this summer's recruitment process.
If I recall, the decision to appoint Graeme Jones was taken weeks before he actually took up the post.

I'm not even sure I'd lay the blame for recruitment at Hammond's door. There is evidence to support the argument that Pulis had over ridden any recruitment offerings that Hammond had put forward.

For me, the major failing was not identifying a replacement for Pulis, & then allowing him to have all the power. That has to lie with Williams & Goodman & possibly the owner.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on November 03, 2018, 03:58:54 PM
going to be More calls for him to go if result stays the same.

Still not heard any Moore out songs though so club won't pull trigger till fans turn.

No one really stands out who we could get in realistically. THats why we have to stick with Darren for this season
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Sted1990 on November 03, 2018, 04:09:50 PM
I’m the last person to turn normally but I can’t stand him trying to play this football with these defenders, it makes no sense whatsoever. He has 45 minutes to change my mind
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hardtobeat on November 03, 2018, 04:18:26 PM
Darren is unfortunate in that he has inherited a situation where the fan base has grown impatient with the players who we felt let us down last season and most would have welcomed a complete clear out. Unfortunately football doesn't work like that and even if it did I am certain that the club did not have the capacity to replace virtually a whole squad.

Equally while an assistant of Jones' calibre was probably worth the wait I suspect a lot of the tactical plan turned up after the bulk of the players were in place. If the plan was to play 3 at the back then who in their right mind would sign Kyle Bartley to play on the left of a 3? At least find someone who is left footed even accepting they might not be a world beater when we are a Championship club. I suspect that Bartley had been scouted whilst at Leeds he barely got enough minutes last season for anyone to have a detailed look at him. To some extent that tells you how broken the club had become behind scenes.

None of this is Darren's fault but he has to play the hand he has been dealt which is why at the outset I was of the view that this was no job for a rookie. He needs time but nobody seems to want to give him any. I was often told during the Pulis years wait until he has own players don't rush to judgement etc... I see precious few running the same defence for Darren and frankly what he is attempting is a far greater challenge than anything Pulis did at the club.
Of course some of the blame has to be laid at the feet of the coaching staff , they see the players they have most days and should be devising tactics to suit if as you say these aren't the players they wanted. Clearly something's arent working and haven't been for a number of games surely it is the head coaches job to implement changes given this scenario ?!?!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on November 03, 2018, 04:38:55 PM
We weren’t particularly good when we were winning. You could say that masked t for a lot of people, or you could say those fans were fickle. Either way its getting harder and harder to defend now.

I wouldn’t mind if I believed in the process, but there’s no progression and no idea. We were getting away because of individuals rather than because we have ever shown any sign of being a good team.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: MarkW on November 03, 2018, 04:39:13 PM
Just remember we don't tolerate chat about future head coaches while we still have someone in charge
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 03, 2018, 04:44:45 PM
Simply put, results are now starting to match performances. We have been awful all season, there is no progression that I can see, no apparent impact of our coaching, no changes to a system that is not working. I love Big Dave, but he is painfully out of his depth.

As with Pulis and Marco Silva, we have missed the boat for getting Dean Smith. Not looking to moot potential replacements here, by the way, just making the point that we have made a shocking decision regarding the managerial position yet again this summer.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on November 03, 2018, 04:50:14 PM
Looks like the bubble may be bursting. I hope not, but this run needs to stop, and quickly.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on November 03, 2018, 04:51:54 PM
He comes accross as a nice bloke. Is that good enough for us?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: east-stand-nick on November 03, 2018, 04:53:38 PM
1 win in 6. That is not good enough.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Bilston Dan on November 03, 2018, 04:55:24 PM
I really want him to do well as I love the bloke but this system just isn't working. Our passing is so rubbish and one-dimensional. Sidewards, backwards, sidewards backwards. He is out of his depth at the moment. I think it's been coming a long time though.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on November 03, 2018, 05:00:52 PM
No Mears and Bartley. Field on early, Burke and Sako came on...(most people calling for that)Moore is really struggling but also maybe our players aren’t that good...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on November 03, 2018, 05:01:26 PM
I think it would be better if we end this early before things get ugly with DM
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on November 03, 2018, 05:02:11 PM
Not good enough
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on November 03, 2018, 05:02:33 PM
Like the bloke but the results are not good enough and don't look like improving.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Aztech on November 03, 2018, 05:02:56 PM
No Mears and Bartley. Field on early, Burke and Sako came on...(most people calling for that)Moore is really struggling but also maybe our players aren’t that good...

Indeed they aren’t that good, what’s worrying is that the coaching staff seem unable to change the style of football to suit.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on November 03, 2018, 05:03:22 PM
Just a matter of time before he gets deservedly sacked, clueless.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on November 03, 2018, 05:03:47 PM
Simply put, results are now starting to match performances. We have been awful all season, there is no progression that I can see, no apparent impact of our coaching, no changes to a system that is not working. I love Big Dave, but he is painfully out of his depth.

As with Pulis and Marco Silva, we have missed the boat for getting Dean Smith. Not looking to moot potential replacements here, by the way, just making the point that we have made a shocking decision regarding the managerial position yet again this summer.

Sadly I agree fully, I think we have to look for a new manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on November 03, 2018, 05:04:23 PM
Put Darren out of his misery
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on November 03, 2018, 05:07:23 PM
Just remember we don't tolerate chat about future head coaches while we still have someone in charge

A rule which I abide by but cannot for the life of me understand. Part of the debate and rationale for sacking the manger is the potential replacements. So they go hand-in-hand. I'm quite happy to get rid of Moore and Rob Jones but can't think of anyone striking to get things right, hence we may as well plod along with the current team for the immediate future.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: telford baggie on November 03, 2018, 05:08:13 PM
please go mr nice you havent a clue been very lucky up until now, take brunt with you aswell
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on November 03, 2018, 05:10:11 PM
Time to make a change. If we’d appointed the current Villa manager back in the summer when we’d narrowed it down to a two-horse race then we’d be sitting top of the league now. We’ve gone for the cheap and sentimental option and we’ve got what we deserved. We haven’t played well in a single game this season, Gayle and Barnes have just been papering over the cracks. In our last 4 games we’ve been outplayed by 3 glorified League 1 teams and destroyed by a promotion contender.

If he’s still in charge on Monday then I give up all hope of promotion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on November 03, 2018, 05:11:38 PM
His post match delusional excuses will be interesting to listen to. You have to wonder if they practice passing the ball to each other in training as they are incapable of it during a match. The regularity that players mis-control the ball and kick it anywhere is mind-boggling. As it the lack of common sense on the pitch and decision making. Desperately missing Gayle and dare I say it Gareth Barry to move the ball around.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 03, 2018, 05:12:51 PM
Who do we replace him with?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 03, 2018, 05:13:43 PM
Who do we replace him with?

Not allowed to discuss this.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on November 03, 2018, 05:16:13 PM
Not allowed to discuss this.

I really wish the moderators would have a rethink about that rule, potentially a separate thread to discuss managers available like we do for transfers, so all names are kept out of the Darren Moore thread.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 03, 2018, 05:16:23 PM
Too early to be calling for him to go in my view. He is under pressure now though I think.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: graka on November 03, 2018, 05:19:29 PM
Jones needs to go. When dm took over he kept the pulis shape but let us attack more whilst still being hard to beat
Jones is used to working with Martinez who plays 3 at the back and is a one trick pony which we don't have the players to do.
Saying that Moore signed mears and Bartley who are garbage.
Someone needs to be held responsible for allowing us to go all summer with no one in place to recruit players except Moore
Shambles and the owner doesn't seem bothered
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on November 03, 2018, 05:19:50 PM
He needs to change his spots quickly or we will need to change him. Leeds at home to come.

3 points thrown away today because they were awful and they didn't have to work that hard for it as we gift wrapped the goal and didn't have a shot on target. Poor tactics and subs again. The paper has fallen off the cracks
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: CL3MO on November 03, 2018, 05:19:55 PM
The problem for me is that he is not adapting and learning from his mistakes. As a new coach, trying to make it in the game, you are happy to give him chances to make mistakes. However, the match report reads the same every week at the moment. We're creating absolutely nothing to add.

Worrying times at the moment.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: MarkW on November 03, 2018, 05:22:18 PM
I really wish the moderators would have a rethink about that rule, potentially a separate thread to discuss managers available like we do for transfers, so all names are kept out of the Darren Moore thread.

It's a rule from the owner of the site,not the Mod team.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on November 03, 2018, 05:22:42 PM
this is one of the reasons I wouldn't have given Moore the job, his reputation with supporters will  be tarnished if results and performances continue and he gets sacked. I'm undecided where I stand because I think he's been let down by the club financially, also think there's a clash of how the team should be set up with Jones, to my mind I don't recall Moore playing 3 at the back last season. but he has continuously picked a central midfield pair that's mostly been poor and worse of all the signing of Bartley is looking a disaster.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 03, 2018, 05:23:16 PM
He needs to change his spots quickly or we will need to change him. Leeds at home to come.

3 points thrown away today because they were awful and they didn't have to work that hard for it as we gift wrapped the goal and didn't have a shot on target. Poor tactics and subs again. The paper has fallen off the cracks

I thought the subs were the right subs to make - but they didn’t work. Whole team looked like it had lost all confidence. It was very poor.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on November 03, 2018, 05:24:15 PM
I think the fact he has changed formation to react to how derby were playing against us, and done the same today, he knows this 3 at the back isn’t working, so why he still persists with it confuses me.

I think he has put way too much trust into Jones and it just isn’t working. Maybe if Martinez gets the Madrid job and comes calling for Jones, we might be able to get an older head in like a Megson to help DM.

Like it or not I don’t see DM being sacked before the end of the season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Pelada on November 03, 2018, 05:25:59 PM
DM is a nice  enough bloke but his early season interviews put  the writing on the wall when he was setting the team up for draws at Forest  et al.

The performances are no more fluid and have no more direction than when he started the job at the end st season.

Would we have been this soft on Pulis?

He’s had plenty of games.

Unfortunately we probably missed the opportunity to get the guy we needed in the summer.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Blowee on November 03, 2018, 05:26:11 PM
I'm at a loss as to what I would do differently. The lack of creativity in midfield, ageing squad and lack of cover up front is there for us all to see. Needed investment in younger and hungrier players in the summer it didn't happen so we signed a number of older journeymen. This side will finish mid table but it will at some point needs back to the drawing board rebuild if we are to start moving forward again. Short term don't think there's too much that Big Dave can do except trying to motivate and get the best out of what we have.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on November 03, 2018, 05:26:25 PM
I think the fact he has changed formation to react to how derby were playing against us, and done the same today, he knows this 3 at the back isn’t working, so why he still persists with it confuses me.

I think he has put way too much trust into Jones and it just isn’t working. Maybe if Martinez gets the Madrid job and comes calling for Jones, we might be able to get an older head in like a Megson to help DM.

Like it or not I don’t see DM being sacked before the end of the season.

Even if we're languishing in the lower bottom half come February? Which I don't think is beyond the realms of possibility
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 03, 2018, 05:27:54 PM
What worried me today was the constant switching of the back 3. However the back 3 isn’t the reason that we have stopped creating. Players short of confidence and individuals off their game. Not good times at the moment and he definitely needs to do something to stop the decline.

We are roughly where I thought we would be at the start of the season so I guess I’m not that flustered because my expectations are pretty much being met. We don’t want to fall too much further though.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on November 03, 2018, 05:31:42 PM
Even if we're languishing in the lower bottom half come February? Which I don't think is beyond the realms of possibility

I genuinely think he will get the season. As long as the club think he’s in ‘touching distance’ of putting a run together for a late charge into the playoffs, he will remain in a job.

Do I think he’s the right man for the job, boultely not, I didn’t want him to start and wasn’t buying this whole club legend thing, if he wasn’t a wba player previously he would be nowhere near this job.

I just can’t see us sacking him anytime soon. Would need to take a run of around 8-10 losses on the bounce for them to even consider it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: stoxman on November 03, 2018, 05:32:16 PM
Even when we were top of the table, I felt we had the wrong man as the goals we were conceding, our inability to control the midfield, our away form etc was all pointing to deep problems papered over by good results in matches that we could have easily lost.

I personally don’t believe the Championship is all that complicated.  A well organized  defence, a high energy midfield and potent strike force is all thats needed for promotion. When I look at this squad compared with, for example, RDMa promotion squad, there is no reason why we should be struggling as bad as we have been.

It was right to give Moore a go. He had earned the chance and we would have kicked ourselves if we had got rid of him and he became successful elsewhere.   Now is the time for bold action and a change.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on November 03, 2018, 05:33:15 PM
What worried me today was the constant switching of the back 3. However the back 3 isn’t the reason that we have stopped creating. Players short of confidence and individuals off their game. Not good times at the moment and he definitely needs to do something to stop the decline.

We are roughly where I thought we would be at the start of the season so I guess I’m not that flustered because my expectations are pretty much being met. We don’t want to fall too much further though.
I am staggered that this rubbish is satisfying someones expectations
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 03, 2018, 05:35:41 PM
I am staggered that this rubbish is satisfying someones expectations

I expected us to be upper mid table. That’s all I’m saying.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: barnestormer on November 03, 2018, 05:36:39 PM
The big conundrum for me is who yanking who's chain as regards Moore and Jones?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: dan7heman on November 03, 2018, 05:38:37 PM
This is the game he must change things... I love Brunty but no.... Just no..

Deserves the chance to sort it... Please do Dave
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on November 03, 2018, 05:41:05 PM
Moore won't get the sack because he's cheap and jenkins was brought back to club to make sure its run self sufficiently.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: barnestormer on November 03, 2018, 05:43:02 PM
On WM now says he's going to analyse it again
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Barrington on November 03, 2018, 05:47:11 PM
It can be argued that it was worth giving him a chance due to the results he got at the end of last season. However, the performances have been pretty poor pretty much all season and now the results are matching those performances more often. He's obviously a top bloke and I think he should do the honourable thing and admit that he needs to let someone else have the chance to take over.

The longer the rot sets in the worse things will get. The way this club has been run lately hasn't helped things at all, but our squad is capable of better than this. This has all been very predictable unfortunately.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mikehy on November 03, 2018, 05:56:40 PM
If there is no improvement next week I would make a managerial chance during the international break.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gavinrussell on November 03, 2018, 06:02:04 PM
No need to panic..just held his press conference and he is off to analyse the game..🤣🤣🤣🤣
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on November 03, 2018, 06:03:08 PM
When Darren was appointed i posted on here that I felt sick. The post was removed. I foresaw the outcome we are seeing now, the name of a club legend being dragged through the mud by the fans who once worshipped him.
I don't blame Darren, I still have a huge amount of time for him. I blame a tight fisted, unambitious, cheap skate, small time board. The legacy of a certain Jeremiah Peace.
We will never be ambitious again until we get an owner who really can push us on.
Cheers Jezza.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on November 03, 2018, 06:07:21 PM
No need to panic..just held his press conference and he is off to analyse the game..🤣🤣🤣🤣

Dont really see what's funny.
Every manager analyses the game

I'd Be worried if he said he was happy and wouldn't review it
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on November 03, 2018, 06:08:27 PM
Moore: “I didn’t see that performance coming” - Jesus Christ. Has he had his eyes closed this season?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gavinrussell on November 03, 2018, 06:13:09 PM
Dont really see what's funny.
Every manager analyses the game

I'd Be worried if he said he was happy and wouldn't review it
He is analysing every game and we are getting worse every game...now that is worrying !!!!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 03, 2018, 06:19:00 PM
When Darren was appointed i posted on here that I felt sick. The post was removed. I foresaw the outcome we are seeing now, the name of a club legend being dragged through the mud by the fans who once worshipped him.
I don't blame Darren, I still have a huge amount of time for him. I blame a tight fisted, unambitious, cheap skate, small time board. The legacy of a certain Jeremiah Peace.
We will never be ambitious again until we get an owner who really can push us on.
Cheers Jezza.

Jeremy Peace is to blame? Wow.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on November 03, 2018, 06:20:55 PM
Even when we were top of the table, I felt we had the wrong man as the goals we were conceding, our inability to control the midfield, our away form etc was all pointing to deep problems papered over by good results in matches that we could have easily lost.

I personally don’t believe the Championship is all that complicated.  A well organized  defence, a high energy midfield and potent strike force is all thats needed for promotion. When I look at this squad compared with, for example, RDMa promotion squad, there is no reason why we should be struggling as bad as we have been.

It was right to give Moore a go. He had earned the chance and we would have kicked ourselves if we had got rid of him and he became successful elsewhere.   Now is the time for bold action and a change.

Where do you get one of those?? The kids??  Is Harper, Field and Edwards ready? Could they be any poorer.  I totally agree with you and Derby showed that, but outside of unproven youth I don't see many options.  Barry, Livermore, Brunt, Hoolahan ??  Derby had the equivalent of three or four Harvey Barnes.

Maybe we need Darren Moore to give up the experiment and go back to the TP mk 2 football that got him results at the end of last season??

Ps I don't know. Pretty confused myelf

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 03, 2018, 06:21:06 PM
Moore: “I didn’t see that performance coming” - Jesus Christ. Has he had his eyes closed this season?

He also said that the performance was unacceptable, but pick the part of the quote to suit your argument.

....though I do agree it’s been coming.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiesboots on November 03, 2018, 06:27:19 PM
Dont really see what's funny.
Every manager analyses the game

I'd Be worried if he said he was happy and wouldn't review it

The problem for DM is he's a young coach, in his biggest job so far, and it shows in his naevity. we needed to be ruthless in the summer and cull the players that have seen us get progressively worse over the last few seasons. Are we honestly staking a promotion push on the backs of Morrison,Brunt,Hegazi,Dawson?  Pfffft.   I have a lot of respect for DM and what he's trying to do, but a new era and approach required the right players to carry it off.  I'd be far happier watching younger,hungrier players developing their game and making mistakes, than the same old faces repeating history. It may be a good thing to remain in this league for a while, that way the 'bigger' players will naturally move on, and DM can build something better and more long standing. Will the board see this as an option though? Probably not, after all the PL is the holy grail for profit in the bank, which comes before fans, managers, long term ambition or anything else these days.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 03, 2018, 06:32:19 PM
If only we could have signed Ryan Woods. I genuinely think he could have made this system work.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on November 03, 2018, 06:49:40 PM
Moore: “I didn’t see that performance coming” - Jesus Christ. Has he had his eyes closed this season?
Clueless. Has repeatedly failed to see what has happened in front of him in every game this season, let alone learn from it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on November 03, 2018, 06:52:49 PM
If only we could have signed Ryan Woods. I genuinely think he could have made this system work.
It's been obvious since before pre season that we were in desperate need of central midfielders who can pass, are comfortable on the ball and dictating the tempo. Moore has to take a significant share of the blame for his transfer strategy of keeping the old guard together at all costs due to his excessive loyalty, at the expense of identifying and prioritising this glaring weakness which most of the fan base could see.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggyman68 on November 03, 2018, 07:58:22 PM
When's he getting the sack then?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on November 03, 2018, 08:10:19 PM
Looks like we are swiftly entering that stage where DM has to prove that he can rally a team and a dressing room short on confidence. We know he's a good bloke and 'players want to play for him' but there has to be more to it than just that. The lack of any control in the midfield area game after game is a huge concern.

 I think back to the Wigan team who often played 3 at the back under Martinez and Jones - they went down in the end but had some good spells in the prem and won the cup of course...in CM they usually had McCarthy (pre injuries) and a younger McArthur who both provided some quality and played as a pair with a high work rate.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on November 03, 2018, 08:16:12 PM
When's he getting the sack then?

We're 5 points off the top of the league after 16 games, not 5 points above relegation with 16 games to go.

Yes, the football hasn't been pretty so far this season, and we haven't won for a few matches, but calling for the sack at this stage is not going to help our cause. Not asking for names, but who realistically is there who would be a good appointment for us? No one at present.

And before anyone says "should have got dean smith", we didn't, so it's not even worth thinking about. Lots of things could have happened, but this is the situation,and managers get the sack way too early nowadays because fans are too impatient.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on November 03, 2018, 08:24:50 PM
He wont get the sack unless we drop bottom half
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: miggybaggy on November 03, 2018, 08:34:35 PM
We're 5 points off the top of the league after 16 games, not 5 points above relegation with 16 games to go.

Yes, the football hasn't been pretty so far this season, and we haven't won for a few matches, but calling for the sack at this stage is not going to help our cause. Not asking for names, but who realistically is there who would be a good appointment for us? No one at present.

And before anyone says "should have got dean smith", we didn't, so it's not even worth thinking about. Lots of things could have happened, but this is the situation,and managers get the sack way too early nowadays because fans are too impatient.

I think our fans are proving to be remarkably patient. We've been pretty rubbish for three seasons now (cheers tone) and its going to take a long time for us to rebuild. I feel sorry for Darren because he has inherited an incredibly difficult task that may well hurt him hard if he can't pull it off....and that would be sad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on November 03, 2018, 08:39:59 PM
We're 5 points off the top of the league after 16 games, not 5 points above relegation with 16 games to go.

Yes, the football hasn't been pretty so far this season, and we haven't won for a few matches, but calling for the sack at this stage is not going to help our cause. Not asking for names, but who realistically is there who would be a good appointment for us? No one at present.

And before anyone says "should have got dean smith", we didn't, so it's not even worth thinking about. Lots of things could have happened, but this is the situation,and managers get the sack way too early nowadays because fans are too impatient.

If we're going to go down that route, I would like to point out that we are actually only 10 points off the relegation zone, which isn't actually that far and quite worrying now that I've looked at it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on November 03, 2018, 08:40:34 PM
I think our fans are proving to be remarkably patient. We've been pretty rubbish for three seasons now (cheers tone) and its going to take a long time for us to rebuild. I feel sorry for Darren because he has inherited an incredibly difficult task that may well hurt him hard if he can't pull it off....and that would be sad.

Spot on. The recruitment and one dimensional management and style has left us with an aged slow squad. We don't have one decent centre midfield option at the club. we don't have a right back. Our striking department is beyond a joke- we don't have a decent one at the club.not to mention besides Phillips and Gayle and perhaps even Barnes we have a team of slow sods.

I feel for him because of these limitations however there are definately better ways to utilise the squad at his disposal.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggyman68 on November 03, 2018, 09:07:23 PM
So, we wait till we're in the bottom half to start looking for a replacement? By which time our season will be over.
The way we're playing shows no sign of an upturn so he should go now.
I know he's a great bloke and a good servant for the team but sentiment doesn't get promotions.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on November 03, 2018, 09:36:15 PM
I think our fans are proving to be remarkably patient. We've been pretty rubbish for three seasons now (cheers tone) and its going to take a long time for us to rebuild. I feel sorry for Darren because he has inherited an incredibly difficult task that may well hurt him hard if he can't pull it off....and that would be sad.


I didn't aim it at our fans, it was a general comment. But now you mention it, I don't consider WBA fans calling for him to be sacked after 16 games to be patient. And this isn't just after today's game. Last week there were a few calls, but now there are even more. As you say in your last sentence, he's inherited an incredibly difficult task, so sacking him would be unfair on him. He could have distanced himself from the post during the summer, but he obviously felt he has the ability to make it work.

If we're going to go down that route, I would like to point out that we are actually only 10 points off the relegation zone, which isn't actually that far and quite worrying now that I've looked at it.

If you're feeling that negative, why stop there? Why not look at it that we're only 15 points off the bottom of the table.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on November 03, 2018, 09:44:50 PM
We are enough games into the season now that we should expect to see some improvement but there just isn't any.  If anything we are going backwards.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on November 03, 2018, 09:57:52 PM
Forget promotion or play offs.
We're leaking goals and no sign of it stopping anytime soon.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 03, 2018, 10:36:38 PM

I didn't aim it at our fans, it was a general comment. But now you mention it, I don't consider WBA fans calling for him to be sacked after 16 games to be patient. And this isn't just after today's game. Last week there were a few calls, but now there are even more. As you say in your last sentence, he's inherited an incredibly difficult task, so sacking him would be unfair on him. He could have distanced himself from the post during the summer, but he obviously felt he has the ability to make it work.

If you're feeling that negative, why stop there? Why not look at it that we're only 15 points off the bottom of the table.

He has to be given time. So until the last month he has got amazing results without amazing performances. Now he isn’t getting the results. But we should at least give him time to turn it around. If we get to Christmas and we haven’t won a match then perhaps it will start getting a bit serious and perhaps we will look like doing a Sunderland which is the biggest fear. But in the meantime I’m sticking by him and I would urge everyone to do the same.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on November 03, 2018, 10:52:57 PM
His 90 minutes are up. The extra time has also gone.
Blow the whistle and leave.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on November 03, 2018, 11:42:29 PM
He has to be given time. So until the last month he has got amazing results without amazing performances. Now he isn’t getting the results. But we should at least give him time to turn it around. If we get to Christmas and we haven’t won a match then perhaps it will start getting a bit serious and perhaps we will look like doing a Sunderland which is the biggest fear. But in the meantime I’m sticking by him and I would urge everyone to do the same.
if we haven't won a game by Christmas it won't be serious it'll be a bloody disaster.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on November 04, 2018, 12:28:05 AM
Talking to a Norwich supporting friend at a bonfire party tonight.  He tells me that it took the new manager a season to get rid of the over paid deadwood and put together a team of (admittedly mainly German) young and hungry players all comfortable on the ball.  They may or may not say at the top but the squad they are building is progressive and being put together to meet the managers requirements.....could that happen here?

Then he made me watch the team goal they scored......check it our. Like us at our best tis season (but with more control).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: allenkevanastle on November 04, 2018, 12:33:37 AM
Ollie, you have written down my thoughts exactly. I don't want Big Dave out of our club but the naivety that is being shown at the moment is troubling. Let's hope he, and those around him, have a re think on tactics and approach that suit the players available - and have the courage to introduce some changes, particularly where young players are concerned.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: alwaysbilly on November 04, 2018, 07:53:55 AM
We really should have been more patient and got Dean Smith in as a short-term plan, with Darren Moore as the long-term plan. It was a bit of a silly time to gamble in my opinion, but what's done is done. Its just a shame we look as though we might lose Darren Moore when had we have bided our time, he could have been more successful when he was ready.

I pray he'd take the step down an assistant if it became inevitable, but i dont see it personally
It would have meant Jenkins having to pay out to get Smith. Cheap option was taken.

Whenever has a caretaker manager ever done well.

We are mirroring Blackburn rovers too much here - Steve (surname escapes me) stepped in and did well for a few games , got the job, then lost control. Not been near the prem since .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on November 04, 2018, 09:12:17 AM
Jeremy Peace is to blame? Wow.

Sorry i forgot where i am posting, i know he is a a masturbatory object to a lot on here. I thought he did well the price he got for us considering we are a mid table championship club. A great bit of marketing there, have top players rushing to join us.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on November 04, 2018, 09:32:33 AM
I think we really need to change to a back 4 now and stop asking the likes of Bartley to play like Pique.

Johnstone
Dawson, Tosin, Hegazi, Gibbs
Morrison, Barry
Phillips, Barnes, Sako
Gayle

Can see us improving a lot with something along those lines. I don't want Brunt or Livermore starting in CM, i wouldn't mind Brunt on the left but that would be all.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on November 04, 2018, 09:36:58 AM
CM and playing the ball out from the back as often as we are appear to be our main problems. I think we need TWO full backs with wingers in front of them and we can then give the likes of Phillips and whoever may go on the left a license to roam forward better.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on November 04, 2018, 10:06:18 AM
I see a lot of people saying he needs time, but do we have it?

Next year three more teams with parachute money will be battling it out and have a huge advantage, although admittedly may not use it as often seems to be the case. Meanwhile we will have to cut our cloth further which surely makes the task more difficult.

I’m really don’t think we can afford to gamble on time, especially when there is so little to justify giving it to date. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hardtobeat on November 04, 2018, 10:06:53 AM
As feared DM's naivety and lack of experience are starting to cost us. This is where his No2 needs to be a guiding light unfortunately most of Jones work has been done under Martinez who was equally rigid in his tactical approach and is therefore imo unable to turn round and say this isn't working , that needs changing why don't we try this way.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: smosher34 on November 04, 2018, 10:22:43 AM
Honeymoon period is now over. Leeds up next if have a few goals put past us I can see the fans starting to get on Moores back.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on November 04, 2018, 10:26:22 AM
Darren Moore is employed by this club as head coach. He should determine the tactics lbased on the players at his disposal . He should then work with his assistant to deliver these tactics drilling these players until it sinks in like Roy Hodgson did , like Tony Pulis did. What I see tells me that Jones is the coach and Moore is no more than a front man for the set up .  Jones let it be known that Moore is an off the ball specialist , if what we are watching defensively is the work of an off the ball specialist then lord help us . This guy has worked for Megson ,Billy Davies, and Pulis if he cannot learn from them on how to coach defensively then quite frankly he isn’t cut for it  What I feared when he was appointed is starting to happen . The wheels have come off .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on November 04, 2018, 11:13:14 AM
I never wanted Darren Moore appointed in the first place, in fact I called the club bottlers for appointing him. However, head coach he is and I stated at the time that I would get behind the guy and give him a fair chance. Am I now calling for his head? No, not yet, I desperately want him to succeed.

We have a major problem at present and things don't seem to be getting any better in fact they are getting worse and Darren clearly isn't learning from mistakes and worse still he's showing no signs of doing so. We are sixteen games in to the season now, things aren't new anymore and we cannot keep making excuses and show unlimited patience.

The system and style of play clearly isn't working and in truth it hasn't done all season. We haven't produced one performance I would call exceptional or complete. We have been rescued time and again by the quality of a few individuals. That cannot last and it hasn't lasted. We are not Belgium and we are not competing on the international stage. We are competing in the Championship and I'd defy any manager to gain promotion from this league playing a slow tempo 3-4-1-2 like we do.

Time is running out for Darren Moore because patience is running out amongst supporters. I don't blame any supporters for voicing their concern nothing was ever achieved by passively ignoring problems you have to tackle them.

Darren Moore has to change the way we are playing and he has to do it NOW. If he doesn't he will lose his job it's that simple and it's that black and white. The penny simply has to drop.

We have an ageing, leaden footed and impotent midfield. We cannot play two in there. We have to revert to 4-3-3 (or 4-3-2-1 if we're being absolutely accurate) and we have to dispose of Chris Brunt as a central midfielder. The same thing is being said time and time again, week after week after week and it's now starting to get exceptionally annoying.

Leeds are up next. If we lose that we have Ipswich away for Darren to keep his job. If he loses that as well I can see him being gone.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee Darren.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BB74 on November 04, 2018, 11:58:31 AM
Big Dave sacked? There’s a screenshot going round from the official site. It’s not on there though so was it posted prematurely or was it a draft?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: east-stand-nick on November 04, 2018, 12:02:38 PM
Bizarre..

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrKBfk_WwAAV9Uw.jpg)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on November 04, 2018, 12:46:29 PM
I see a lot base around formation arguments, but the guys we have at the back be it in a 3 or 4 or 5 seem to pop up the same regardless and I think if we are going to change ....then we really need to change ?

So.

                            Keeper (either myhill start again/Johnstone if we think we can fix          ..........................................the obvious faults )

Tosin.        Livermore.     Barry.     Townsend.

              Morrison/hoolahan.        Field
 Phillips.                 Barnes.                   Gibbs /sako

                            Gayle

Bench
Keeper
Edwards brunt Gibbs/sako hoolahan/Morrison

I'd sell Dawson
           Rodriguez
           Burke
           
I'd be getting in (or trying too)
Shawcross
Cahill
Defoe
Maja
Tavernier
A young midfielder like foden from citeh



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on November 04, 2018, 12:47:11 PM
Looks fake, grammatically it’s a mess.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on November 04, 2018, 12:53:35 PM
Bizarre..

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrKBfk_WwAAV9Uw.jpg)

Not on the OS (yet). In the photo there's no website address shown and it is easy to make a website nowadays. Can easily reproduce the OS.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on November 04, 2018, 01:08:15 PM
That's as fake as robson Kanu is a footballer.

Surely people don't believe that screen shot.

The word screen shot says it all
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on November 04, 2018, 06:05:44 PM
Bizarre..

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrKBfk_WwAAV9Uw.jpg)

I think the fact that they've also got Word open is a big clue.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on November 04, 2018, 06:16:39 PM
We really should have been more patient and got Dean Smith in as a short-term plan, with Darren Moore as the long-term plan. It was a bit of a silly time to gamble in my opinion, but what's done is done. Its just a shame we look as though we might lose Darren Moore when had we have bided our time, he could have been more successful when he was ready.

I pray he'd take the step down an assistant if it became inevitable, but i dont see it personally
He's had a whole career in football playing and coaching under various managers. His decision making (and reading his interviews) even at this early stage of his career make it clear he will never be a top manager, as he doesn't even display the potential to be one.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on November 05, 2018, 01:25:24 AM
I maintain the squad at DM's disposal is more than good enough to finish top 6 this season, however it seems to me that he is 'overthinking' his tactics/selections and more or less shoe-horning players into positions and/or roles within the team that they are to a lesser or larger degree not best suited.

Brunt is not and has never been a CM midfielder, why DM persists on playing him there is bizarre when he has got many other options. I do believe however that Brunt can still perform a role on the left of midfield and he should play there to keep the team balanced, unless one of Sako/Burke can take his place from him.

Rodriguez is IMO a very good striker at this level, however I don't believe that playing both him and Gayle together up front works for the team as we need another body in midfield. For this reason IMO Rodriguez should be dropped to the bench as Gayle is definitely our best forward. Barnes can play as the attacking CM as I feel this would be more effective to Rodriguez playing as a striker who drops deep to receive the ball.

The 'back 3' experiment clearly isn't working. I believe that Bartley is actually a solid enough CB at this level, but we should be playing 2 CB's and as we have Dawson and Hegazi this means Bartley should be benched. Our CB's also should not be instructed to play it out from the back as much as they are as they aren't up to it. This is obviously causing unnecessary problems leading to a drop in confidence, an issue which is now becoming exacerbated match-by-match. Most CB's in this division would eventually begin to look bad, make mistakes and lose confidence if they were asked to do this and ours are no different.

Philips is one of the best wingers in this division. However he is not a wing-back and asking him to perform this role must be having a negative impact on his game. We need him to be free to be an out and out winger and let some one else do the work at RB.

Mears and Robson-Kanu aren't good enough and I see no reason for them to be in the 18 if/when everyone is fit and available.

My team going forward would be:

-------------------Jonhstone--------------------

Tosin       Dawson            Hegazi          Gibbs

Philips       Field            Livermore         Brunt

                          Barnes

                           Gayle

SUBS: Rodriguez, Burke, Bartley, Townsend, Sako, Hoolahan/Morrison/Barry, Myhill

This set-up should get us through to January still in touch with the front-runner, and then the management team should have RB and CM targets lined up to be brought in during the window, as we could do with a decent player in each position. It seems this is considered the most pressing issue also judging by the bids for Tavernier and Dack towards the end of the summer window.

Do all this and I believe we would still be in with a chance of getting promoted.

Stick with the way we have been playing and this little 'blip' could become a more serious slump in form.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on November 05, 2018, 07:34:39 AM



Alan Pardew has been linked with a surprise return, the Baggies news:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-taught-valuable-lesson-15371731   >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 05, 2018, 07:52:18 AM


Alan Pardew has been linked with a surprise return, the Baggies news:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-taught-valuable-lesson-15371731   >:( >:( >:( >:(

A surprise return to Southampton not us.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: east-stand-nick on November 05, 2018, 08:20:20 AM


Alan Pardew has been linked with a surprise return, the Baggies news:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-taught-valuable-lesson-15371731   >:( >:( >:( >:(

Did you even read the article you've posted? They're welcome to him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 05, 2018, 08:22:58 AM
I would imagine that Geoff's issue with it is that he can return to Premier League management so quickly after such an abject failure.  I don't think anyone is foolish enough to believe he would ever end up back here as manager...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie steve on November 05, 2018, 08:27:41 AM
The people at the top making desicions on player and management recruitment are the ones to blame mostly.
Another dose of bad choices on the playing side , with the exception of our two loanees.
Fergie would struggle with our team.

Having said that Big Dave doesn't give me the impression he will succeed here despite being a lovely bloke.
If he believes our midfield 3 on Satutrday of Brunt , Morrison , Livermore has the energy levels needed then it shows how naive he is. He has missed a trick not getting in younger hungry players.

I wish him all the luck for the season , he is going to need it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on November 05, 2018, 08:43:50 AM
I would imagine that Geoff's issue with it is that he can return to Premier League management so quickly after such an abject failure.  I don't think anyone is foolish enough to believe he would ever end up back here as manager...

 ;) spot on Fritzl, it's like the pooh he served didn't count. What top flight club or fans would want him in charge.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: DurhamBaggie on November 05, 2018, 10:32:41 AM
Honeymoon period is now over. Leeds up next if have a few goals put past us I can see the fans starting to get on Moores back.

Start?? Based on the fans that were within earshot of myself at Hull...the general consensus seemed to be that he had to go that evening
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on November 05, 2018, 10:47:42 AM
To be honest our race has been run.
We've been found out and the system we play is nowhere near suitable for the players at our disposal.
When consideration is given to the players that lined up for us on Saturday that had played 'recently' in the Premier League, we should not be losing to Hull. That's how bad we've become and if steps (large ones) aren't taken we will find ourselves in trouble.
Lots of posts talk of lack of confidence in players which impacts on performance. I believe confidence and 'inspiration' comes from the top. Brian Clough never had a problem with motivating players (a bit at Leeds maybe) and clearly some current Championship managers don't either. Link that to the way they are playing and getting results, confidence rises, teams win games and everyone is happy
We need to sort this out quick.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Westie on November 05, 2018, 11:55:35 AM
No point in replacing Darren Moore, the bloke at the top isn’t going to put the required amount of money into the team to bring in the creative spark that the team needs. The will be no upturn in fortune until Lai is gone. I just wish that he would attend some matches so that we could make our feelings clear!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on November 05, 2018, 12:12:42 PM
It's interesting that a lot of posts are about players at our disposal and using them correctly. And it's absolutely right.

I coach, as I'm sure others on here do, and from grass roots it's common sense that you have to play to your strengths as a team, not play the coaches favourite formation. When that happens, the outcome is disastrous.

We all know that a team can play one up front if you have Lukaku. If you don't have a strong player who can hold the ball up then you don't have a release. So you need a different approach. Likewise, if you don't have skillful defenders then playing out from the back is asking for trouble.

How is it taking a fully qualified team of professionals so long to get the basics right?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: NJS on November 05, 2018, 12:19:10 PM
DM is a good coach and motivator but, tactically, he is all at sea.  He persists on playing to a back 3 scheme for which he doesn't seem to recognise he has the right resources.  There's no sense trying to play out from the back if your back line can't pass accurately under pressure and your midfield is too aged to get back to within their comfort range.  Someone, someone in the midfield must have the skill to turn with the ball when he receives it so he's not looking at giving it  straight back together with the opposition's press.  A manager needs to be ruthless.  If a player isn't cutting it in midfield he should be discarded without hesitation or feelings of loyalty.  A manager needs to recognise what's happening in real time and make changes based on the game situation not on some preconceived plan.  I think after his few victories at the end of last season it would have been very difficult not to give him a chance.  Shame because I think that Potter would have been a wiser choice with a wider knowledge of management.

We shouldn't hope for a sugar daddy to come along, we're not in a fashionable part of London and I can't see us as a trophy club for a foreign billionaire.  As ever in the black country we must do it by our own efforts and bringing on our own players.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on November 05, 2018, 12:39:54 PM
For me, Big Dave's best role was behind the scenes working with the youngsters/ loan players.

You cant knock that hes a likeable guy and there's something about him which makes you want him to do well.

He's never a head coach for me though, that's nothing against him, he was put in this position way too soon and he was never going to turn it down as it may not have come round again.

He will have learnt more (hopefully) over the last few weeks and the next 3/4 games are massive for him and his career.

He HAS to go back to basics.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: stuvetti on November 05, 2018, 12:50:35 PM
If you appoint someone with no managerial experience and who's only qualification is that he is not Pulis, or Pardew, then you reap what you sow. His whistling is great though and surely a spot on one man and his dog beckons.

It's a shame because Potter and Smith were available and we took the path of lowest resistance (from the fans). Good management needs to take brave decisions, which sometimes fly in the face of the fans wishes. I can imagine the hullabaloo if DM hadn't got the job.

The brave decision now would be to recognise that DM isn't equipped for the job and to act. Sadly, there doesn't appear to be many alternatives out there.

In the end we have two seasons to get out of this league, before we lose the parachute money and in reality they won't jettison DM until its too late. So the pressure will really be on next season.

 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on November 05, 2018, 12:51:20 PM
For me, Big Dave's best role was behind the scenes working with the youngsters/ loan players.

You cant knock that hes a likeable guy and there's something about him which makes you want him to do well.

He's never a head coach for me though, that's nothing against him, he was put in this position way too soon and he was never going to turn it down as it may not have come round again.

He will have learnt more (hopefully) over the last few weeks and the next 3/4 games are massive for him and his career.

He HAS to go back to basics.

I agree with much of the above. The results he achieved at the end of last season made him nailed on to get the top job. I too have never seen him as a potential top manager. His remains our manager though and, as such, will certainly get my support. For the sake of the team and his own future however, he must start to play to the strengths that we have. That means a back four for starters. Let the defenders defend and stop this insistence on getting them to do what they clearly cannot do. I am not sure how he injects energy into the midfield though. Field does not look as good as we thought he was and you wont get the required energy levels from the likes of Brunt/Barry/Morrison or Hoolahan. I fear for us on Saturday coming but would love to be wrong!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on November 05, 2018, 01:20:08 PM
I'd just wish he'd stop playing 3 at the back and go with 4 33 which seems to be where the game is going at the moment and stop playing his favourites.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on November 05, 2018, 01:31:42 PM
What Franks on radio wm keeps saying is that Jones coaches the players in possession and Darren Moore coaches them when they are out of possession.

Jones and Darren Moore are supposed to be best friends.

But, we waited for Jones as he wanted to go on holiday before joining us.

He was a coach with Belgium, and imo was on holiday most of the time with international teams meeting up every 2/3 months for games.

Then he persists this shocking defence when a true friend tells his mate that it isn't working and these defenders aren't good enough to play this way and we will play to their strengths and then try and progress when we can with a more passing style.

A cynic could say that Jones is letting Darren Moore hang himself whilst conveniently placed to take the reigns when it all falls apart.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on November 05, 2018, 01:50:00 PM
One of the main concerns voiced on this board following the end of last season was that we were going to end up with a Pullis Mk 2 as Darren Moore had got his results from going back to basics with the players and just injecting some pride back into the team.  I think most of us were delighted when it became apparent that Darren Moore actually wanted to play an attractive and open type of football, playing from the back and utilising wing-backs.   We ALL knew we were at least one central midflielder(s), right back and striker short but the start we had seemed to suggest we might just get away with it.  Without Gayles injury this may have continued, as he really can be the difference at this level and it is no coincidence that Barnes form has dropped off without him ahead making runs and scaring defenders half to death.   Without any-one to run in behind (JRod runs in behind eventually, but no defender is scared of this chap anymore) and stretch the game Barnes is half the player. 

But we have lost Gayle and all of a sudden the transfer chickens have come home to roost.  It's horribly obvious that this squad does not have the pace, energy or invention within the midfield area to continue playing this way - I'm still getting flashbacks from the youth and exuberance in the Derby midfield - or the quality at the back to make up for it.   In additional we have lost Gibbs who after a poor start was starting to look a real threat and Phillips has done what Phillips does - find form and look a world beater - then get injured and look like he can't beat a defender with a 10 yard head start.

So what do we do? 

Should Darren Moore just accept that he hasn't got the squad to do what he wants, and go back to basics once more?  4-4-2 or 4-1-3-2 tight and compact, looking for channels and concentrating on defending first?  Stop conceding poor goals and look to steal a few ugly games?  Or

Should he gamble on the kids coming into freshen it up? Continuing to play an open game but with extra legs, even if they are inexperienced and unproven?   Hoping that quality re-enforcements will arrive in Jan (fat chance of that, lets face it).  Or

The final option, which is the one being taken at the moment - to carry on and hope it comes together again - getting Gayle back on the pitch alongside Sakho must be key to this.   

Which would you plump for???  1. Back to basics.  2. Try the kids.  3. Carry on and hope.

And no, I don't yet include replacing Darren Moore as an option.   Different manager, same problems.  The only manager that I know who could make something of this bunch of players is the capped one who put them together and even then, without a big man to bring on up-front and the threat of McCauley at corners and set-pieces I think he would struggle.   



 

 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on November 05, 2018, 02:02:49 PM
Hate to say it, but we have to revert to being tight at the back and grind a few games out, the other options have higher risk that the slump continues and confidence erodes more.
Go tight at the back with 4 protected by 2 and hopefully Dwight and Barnes get back together and nick us a few points.

The problem is a back 4 almost certainly means Daws at RB !  and the sheilding mf - 2 will almost certainly mean Barry in there.

I would likely go with
Daws   Hegazi  Tosin  Gibbs
 
 ___Field      Barry_____   as the defensive unit
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on November 05, 2018, 02:11:59 PM
The true test of a manager is how they cope with a blip and stop it turning into much worse. More experienced managers than Darren have succumbed under these circumstances but it does appear that he is not coping well. If he can halt the slide and somehow get us back to winning ways then it will have been a good show of mettle and will stand him, and us, in good stead for the long winter ahead. If he doesn't then I think the writing will be on the wall.
Struggling to see a way out at the minute though as, apart from Gayle coming back, I can't see how he changes it that much. The back 3 are rubbish, so may try a back 4 but that would mean an already half arsed Dawson at RB and we would still have the issue that no combination of our 5 or so midfielders can a) pass for toffee or b) have the balls to take the game by the scruff of the neck. If we can scrape through to January and still be there or thereabouts then Brunt, Livermore, Barry and Morrison have to be replaced with younger, braver, better options.
Not sure if he has been financially hamstrung, or he has orchestrated the situation himself by relying on experienced failures, but either way, he needs to act fast or it looks like being his downfall.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on November 05, 2018, 02:16:32 PM
Hate to say it, but we have to revert to being tight at the back and grind a few games out, the other options have higher risk that the slump continues and confidence erodes more.
Go tight at the back with 4 protected by 2 and hopefully Dwight and Barnes get back together and nick us a few points.

The problem is a back 4 almost certainly means Daws at RB !  and the sheilding mf - 2 will almost certainly mean Barry in there.

I would likely go with
Daws   Hegazi  Tosin  Gibbs
 
 ___Field      Barry_____   as the defensive unit

Hate to say it makes sense.....keep a few clean sheets and see what Barnes and Gayle can come up with, buy they only have to nick one goal rather than score three or four to get points.   One problem playing this way is our lack of a target up front for when the defenders just want to clear the lines.....please not HRK ....he brings the fans nothing but disheartenment.   I have nothing against him as a person, or even a tryer, but as a forward for a team with aspirations of the Premier League he is an example of everything wrong with our club at the moment.  "Experience" used as a substitute for any skill, pace and footballing ability. 

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on November 05, 2018, 02:19:40 PM
He has to go back to basics, but by going back to basics in a certain way he can continue to keep the 'attacking' threat there.

For example:

Dawson
Hegazi
Tosin
Gibbs

Barry
Livermore

Phillips
Barnes
Sako

Gayle

Playing 4-2-3-1 is what I believe the best formation with the personnel we have. Solid back 4, let them cover each other, concentrate on being defenders first, play the ball second, if it aint on then hit channel and press higher up the pitch.

The 2 sitters, Barry is arguably our best passer, sit him in there with Livermore who is the 'runner'. Barry isn't going to play every game so he can be replaced with Morrison/Hoolahan, someone comfortable of getting on the ball and starting play.

The 3 infront: Phillips, Barnes, Sako - this is were the threat comes from, can even slot Rodriguez on the wing (same with Brunt) if you worried they might not get back and defend when needed.

Gayle up top.

That formation for me, makes us look and feel more solid, still gives us a threat going forward, but most importantly doesn't leave us short at the back. If a full back goes forward, we still have Barry/Livermore to sit infront of the defence.

Will Big Dave revert to this from the kick off - No. Will he react during the game when its too late (i.e Derby and also weekend just gone) Yes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on November 05, 2018, 02:32:14 PM
The true test of a manager is how they cope with a blip and stop it turning into much worse. More experienced managers than Darren have succumbed under these circumstances but it does appear that he is not coping well. If he can halt the slide and somehow get us back to winning ways then it will have been a good show of mettle and will stand him, and us, in good stead for the long winter ahead. If he doesn't then I think the writing will be on the wall.
Struggling to see a way out at the minute though as, apart from Gayle coming back, I can't see how he changes it that much. The back 3 are rubbish, so may try a back 4 but that would mean an already half arsed Dawson at RB and we would still have the issue that no combination of our 5 or so midfielders can a) pass for toffee or b) have the balls to take the game by the scruff of the neck. If we can scrape through to January and still be there or thereabouts then Brunt, Livermore, Barry and Morrison have to be replaced with younger, braver, better options.
Not sure if he has been financially hamstrung, or he has orchestrated the situation himself by relying on experienced failures, but either way, he needs to act fast or it looks like being his downfall.

I think it was a mixture of the above as yes he (and the club and many fans) misjudged the impact the likes of JRod and Dawson would have at this level, but I don't recall many other bids turned down and the Chadli situation did us no favours at all.    I do hold onto the fact that the players bought in on loan under DM (not as free's but genuine loans) have been our most successful players this season.  We have no idea how influential he was on these signings (particularily Gayle as that move was triggered by Rondon) but there was barely any other  infrastructure at the time so must have had a big say.   I also look at the players we tried half-arsedly to bring in at the death in Dack and Tavernier - if these were also Darren Moore's choices then that is going in the right direction for personal.   Not his fault we didn't make serious bids!   

The black mark of course is Bartley, but all managers make errors in their signings and more expensive ones at that.   I still see a decent (not good) championship centre half in there somewhere but he has struggled playing on the left of the three and the suspension must have been a relief for him.   
 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on November 05, 2018, 02:36:01 PM
The true test of a manager is how they cope with a blip and stop it turning into much worse. More experienced managers than Darren have succumbed under these circumstances but it does appear that he is not coping well. If he can halt the slide and somehow get us back to winning ways then it will have been a good show of mettle and will stand him, and us, in good stead for the long winter ahead. If he doesn't then I think the writing will be on the wall.
Struggling to see a way out at the minute though as, apart from Gayle coming back, I can't see how he changes it that much. The back 3 are rubbish, so may try a back 4 but that would mean an already half arsed Dawson at RB and we would still have the issue that no combination of our 5 or so midfielders can a) pass for toffee or b) have the balls to take the game by the scruff of the neck. If we can scrape through to January and still be there or thereabouts then Brunt, Livermore, Barry and Morrison have to be replaced with younger, braver, better options.
Not sure if he has been financially hamstrung, or he has orchestrated the situation himself by relying on experienced failures, but either way, he needs to act fast or it looks like being his downfall.

The 'back three' aren't playing well because they are playing as a back three and are being tasked with keeping possession and playing it out from the back, while also not having a suitable CM coming to take the ball and taking the pressure of them.

Go 2 at the back (Dawson and Hegazi) with 3 in the midfield (any 3 from the plethora of options we have excluding Brunt), to 1. give the defence more protection and 2. give us more bodies in midfield so we can more readily get control of it possession wise more frequently; move Brunt to the left (or drop him all together); and allow the defenders to move the ball up the pitch more quickly and things will improve pretty rapidly. Changing to a more suitable system and style of play from what we have may just lead to Dawson seeming a bit less 'half-arsed' as well as if most of the fans can see the system is badly flawed then I'm sure many of the players can as well. It's the set-up and tactics that is beginning to kill the team, not the standard of the players.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on November 05, 2018, 02:38:07 PM
He has to go back to basics, but by going back to basics in a certain way he can continue to keep the 'attacking' threat there.

For example:

Dawson
Hegazi
Tosin
Gibbs

Barry
Livermore

Phillips
Barnes
Sako

Gayle

Playing 4-2-3-1 is what I believe the best formation with the personnel we have. Solid back 4, let them cover each other, concentrate on being defenders first, play the ball second, if it aint on then hit channel and press higher up the pitch.

The 2 sitters, Barry is arguably our best passer, sit him in there with Livermore who is the 'runner'. Barry isn't going to play every game so he can be replaced with Morrison/Hoolahan, someone comfortable of getting on the ball and starting play.

The 3 infront: Phillips, Barnes, Sako - this is were the threat comes from, can even slot Rodriguez on the wing (same with Brunt) if you worried they might not get back and defend when needed.

Gayle up top.

That formation for me, makes us look and feel more solid, still gives us a threat going forward, but most importantly doesn't leave us short at the back. If a full back goes forward, we still have Barry/Livermore to sit infront of the defence.

Will Big Dave revert to this from the kick off - No. Will he react during the game when its too late (i.e Derby and also weekend just gone) Yes.

Yep....again makes sense to me.   The problem is when you take Gayle and Sakho out it looks like this :(

Dawson
Hegazi
Tosin
Gibbs

Barry
Livermore

Phillips
Barnes
JRod (although I'd like to see Edwards)

HRK

But that's very much me feeling sad about our options up front than a comment on the formation, which I would be happy with.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on November 05, 2018, 04:00:07 PM
He has to go back to basics, but by going back to basics in a certain way he can continue to keep the 'attacking' threat there.

For example:

Dawson
Hegazi
Tosin
Gibbs

Barry
Livermore

Phillips
Barnes
Sako

Gayle

Playing 4-2-3-1 is what I believe the best formation with the personnel we have. Solid back 4, let them cover each other, concentrate on being defenders first, play the ball second, if it aint on then hit channel and press higher up the pitch.

The 2 sitters, Barry is arguably our best passer, sit him in there with Livermore who is the 'runner'. Barry isn't going to play every game so he can be replaced with Morrison/Hoolahan, someone comfortable of getting on the ball and starting play.

The 3 infront: Phillips, Barnes, Sako - this is were the threat comes from, can even slot Rodriguez on the wing (same with Brunt) if you worried they might not get back and defend when needed.

Gayle up top.

That formation for me, makes us look and feel more solid, still gives us a threat going forward, but most importantly doesn't leave us short at the back. If a full back goes forward, we still have Barry/Livermore to sit infront of the defence.

Will Big Dave revert to this from the kick off - No. Will he react during the game when its too late (i.e Derby and also weekend just gone) Yes.
The problem with that is it's still relying on a central 2 of Barry and Livermore - don't expect Barnes to drop in and make a 3 if we are getting outnumbered in there. This is our single biggest issue game in game out as far as I'm concerned....lack of ability to get control of the middle of the park.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on November 05, 2018, 06:46:36 PM
The problem with that is it's still relying on a central 2 of Barry and Livermore - don't expect Barnes to drop in and make a 3 if we are getting outnumbered in there. This is our single biggest issue game in game out as far as I'm concerned....lack of ability to get control of the middle of the park.


Excatly this Adder. I'm surprised by peoples team selection to see them still going with a two in the middle of the park.

Whatever we do, we must go three in central midfield. Harvey Barnes will not drop into there and I wouldn't want him to. by doing that we'd be losing our (at present) one potent threat.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on November 05, 2018, 06:49:33 PM

Excatly this Adder. I'm surprised by peoples team selection to see them still going with a two in the middle of the park.

Whatever we do, we must go three in central midfield. Harvey Barnes will not drop into there and I wouldn't want him to. by doing that we'd be losing our (at present) one potent threat.

So Darren Moore should play 4 - 3  - 2 - 1 ? Or 4 - 3 - 3 ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on November 05, 2018, 06:52:52 PM
So Darren Moore should play 4 - 3  - 2 - 1 ? Or 4 - 3 - 3 ?


Or 4-5-1. There are slight variations but they're all fairly similar. With the players we have we need three in midfield.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on November 05, 2018, 06:57:49 PM
                    Myhill

     Tosin    Livermore.   Barry.  Gibbs
                              (Bee gees 😀)

Phillips.     Field.     Morrison.   Sako
                   
              Barnes

                          Gayle

But if anyone is really nervous with the CBS , take out either, push tosin in , Edwards at RB , no one would want to defend against this team
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on November 05, 2018, 07:13:04 PM
I'm waiting to see how Darren learns from the recent results. I don't think performances have been good all season overall but we got away with a few games through having some good firepower and over-powered a few teams. You can't go a whole season that way , especially leaking goals. I'd like to see more balance with a tighter system. We could play three centre backs if they had good distribution but ours generally don't. We end up playing a fairly static 5-3-2 because our midfield lacks energy and movement on the whole.

Surely this is fairly obvious?


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mickyfudge on November 05, 2018, 08:51:49 PM
Agree with atomic we must play three midfield players ,we are continually getting overrun, desperately need to stop this bad run somehow
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VVVAlbion on November 05, 2018, 10:06:14 PM
Darren Moore is limited by the rubbish squad that we have assembled on the cheap and the requirement to change the way we play from the Pulisball dross that we have had served up for the last few seasons. Rome wasn't built in a day but the expectation is that it can be at a football club and maybe it can if you spend the money but not if you pick up players who nobody else want. There is definately an element that we have been found out, we have 3 or 4 players who can make a difference and if you mark them out the game the rest are limited or clueless. That isn't about Darren Moore, that is the squad and no change of coach is going to change that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on November 05, 2018, 10:15:16 PM
I am going to make a few points in defence of the manager some of which are counter intuitive but bear with me.

The squad is on paper at least as good as any in the Championship. We can all look at the best players in other teams squads many of whom are on loan from Premier League clubs and go I wished he was here. The reality is if a player is of genuine quality they spend roughly a season in the Championship before moving on to the Premier League either through promotion or transfer but generally the squads are a mixed bag. There are plenty of Mears and Bartleys and worse out there.

Most of the players in the division were we to recruit would be dismissed by our underwhelmed fan base as "Championship player" (a strange criticism given we are in the championship) The Derby side we lost 1:4 to included Keogh,Malone, Waghorn and Carson (a player chased out of the Hawthorns and whose name to this day induces hilarity and fear in equal measure).

So in theory the manager should be doing better as should Rowett at Stoke who probably has a better squad than Moore has at least on paper.

Here is the rub the squad looks strong on paper (which was why punters backed us to 2nd favourite at the start of the season) but unfortunately it has a number of bad habits which we seem to regress into whenever we are under a bit of pressure. This is mainly manifests itself in an unwillingness to show for the ball. While this was bad under the Pulis set up it is practically suicidal when we are trying to pass through the midfield.

Ultimately there is a fragility about this squad and maybe we would have better clearing the decks more this summer but in reality there wasn't a queue of suitors for Phillips, Barry and Livermore etc...Even if there was we have degraded the recruitment department to such a degree that we weren't in a position to rebuild and had we we there would be an issue of anything up to 11 new recruits gelling as a unit.

Ultimately the challenges facing Darren would be the same for any manager and I am not sure we would get an obviously better outcome with any likely alternative. It is equally clear in my mind that we have to persevere with whoever we had appointed. Running through another couple managers trying to find one with a magic wand who to transform us into something a little less flakey is going to be counter productive.

Calls for Moore's dismissal are premature we are in transition and the our season will be hit and miss. The rebuild will continue to be hampered by the contractual legacy of the Premier League years but it will gather pace next summer.

   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on November 05, 2018, 10:24:38 PM
Darren Moore is limited by the rubbish squad that we have assembled on the cheap and the requirement to change the way we play from the Pulisball dross that we have had served up for the last few seasons. Rome wasn't built in a day but the expectation is that it can be at a football club and maybe it can if you spend the money but not if you pick up players who nobody else want. There is definately an element that we have been found out, we have 3 or 4 players who can make a difference and if you mark them out the game the rest are limited or clueless. That isn't about Darren Moore, that is the squad and no change of coach is going to change that.


If you look at the back of our matchday programme and compare our squad with our opponents ours is sizeable. It's all very well saying Moore is hampered by the squad he has but he has a far, far better squad than most clubs in the Championship, you could argue all clubs. We were awful at Hull on Saturday look at their squad and compare it to ours.

I know Graeme Jones is having a major influence on how we play but Darren Moore is HEAD coach he carries the can, he is ultimately responsible for what we do on the pitch. If he is being over-inflenced by Jones then he's not strong enough to be a head coach.

Yes, we had to change from Pulisball but now we've gone completely the other way no organisation, no solidity, no structure. It doesn't have to be one or the other i.e.e ultra pragmatic or no pragmatism there is a middle ground.

A lot of coaches would give their right arm for a squad like Albion's. Darren is making the job hard by playing the system he is and picking the players he is perfect example Brunt in CM.EVERYBODY can see that Brunt is not a CM.

What is concerning is that we seem to be getting worse rather than better. Following the showing at Hull I'd question whether the players have lost or are losing belief in what they are supposed to be doing.

The best we've played all season was the opening half an hour of the Coventry game in the pre season friendly (lower league opposition I know). We've gone a fair way backwards since then.


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on November 05, 2018, 10:29:16 PM
I am going to make a few points in defence of the manager some of which are counter intuitive but bear with me.

The squad is on paper at least as good as any in the Championship. We can all look at the best players in other teams squads many of whom are on loan from Premier League clubs and go I wished he was here. The reality is if a player is of genuine quality they spend roughly a season in the Championship before moving on to the Premier League either through promotion or transfer but generally the squads are a mixed bag. There are plenty of Mears and Bartleys and worse out there.

Most of the players in the division were we to recruit would be dismissed by our underwhelmed fan base as "Championship player" (a strange criticism given we are in the championship) The Derby side we lost 1:4 to included Keogh,Malone, Waghorn and Carson (a player chased out of the Hawthorns and whose name to this day induces hilarity and fear in equal measure).

So in theory the manager should be doing better as should Rowett at Stoke who probably has a better squad than Moore has at least on paper.

Here is the rub the squad looks strong on paper (which was why punters backed us to 2nd favourite at the start of the season) but unfortunately it has a number of bad habits which we seem to regress into whenever we are under a bit of pressure. This is mainly manifests itself in an unwillingness to show for the ball. While this was bad under the Pulis set up it is practically suicidal when we are trying to pass through the midfield.

Ultimately there is a fragility about this squad and maybe we would have better clearing the decks more this summer but in reality there wasn't a queue of suitors for Phillips, Barry and Livermore etc...Even if there was we have degraded the recruitment department to such a degree that we weren't in a position to rebuild and had we we there would be an issue of anything up to 11 new recruits gelling as a unit.

Ultimately the challenges facing Darren would be the same for any manager and I am not sure we would get an obviously better outcome with any likely alternative. It is equally clear in my mind that we have to persevere with whoever we had appointed. Running through another couple managers trying to find one with a magic wand who to transform us into something a little less flakey is going to be counter productive.

Calls for Moore's dismissal are premature we are in transition and the our season will be hit and miss. The rebuild will continue to be hampered by the contractual legacy of the Premier League years but it will gather pace next summer.
I think the key factor is the first eleven on a man for man basis is one of the best BUT it’s a totally unbalanced squad with gaping holes in it, Darren has 7 very good players for this level and 4 well below par players. He has to make it up until the January window and then address the problems. It’s our job to get behind the team in the interim!

 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GrGr on November 05, 2018, 10:42:02 PM
Yes, we are in transition. Darren Moore can only take responsibility for and fix situation related to the current squad's training, match preparation, team tactics and so on. The club has been seriously mismanaged for a number of years under TP et al. This has left us with a very poorly balanced  squad. However, it is Darren's job to make the most of what he has got here and now. This is not happening and that Darren must fix.

At least the club has recognized one of the problems, recruiting fresh talent, and appointed a head scout at long last. The club now needs to trim the squad of aging overpaid players and find new talent to build around. The team on the pitch needs to have a solid defence, a strong spine, and reliable goal scoring. The goal has to be a hungry, hard working, talented team with as few flaws as possible. But that is the long term goal and it won't happen overnight.

Darren's team has obvious problems, and that is where he needs to start and where I am looking for immediate improvement from him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on November 05, 2018, 10:43:58 PM

If you look at the back of our matchday programme and compare our squad with our opponents ours is sizeable. It's all very well saying Moore is hampered by the squad he has but he has a far, far better squad than most clubs in the Championship, you could argue all clubs. We were awful at Hull on Saturday look at their squad and compare it to ours.

I know Graeme Jones is having a major influence on how we play but Darren Moore is HEAD coach he carries the can, he is ultimately responsible for what we do on the pitch. If he is being over-inflenced by Jones then he's not strong enough to be a head coach.

Yes, we had to change from Pulisball but now we've gone completely the other way no organisation, no solidity, no structure. It doesn't have to be one or the other i.e.e ultra pragmatic or no pragmatism there is a middle ground.

A lot of coaches would give their right arm for a squad like Albion's. Darren is making the job hard by playing the system he is and picking the players he is perfect example Brunt in CM.EVERYBODY can see that Brunt is not a CM.

What is concerning is that we seem to be getting worse rather than better. Following the showing at Hull I'd question whether the players have lost or are losing belief in what they are supposed to be doing.

The best we've played all season was the opening half an hour of the Coventry game in the pre season friendly (lower league opposition I know). We've gone a fair way backwards since then.
It isn't always about what you have got, it is sometimes about the way you use it.
Pulis tried the same thing....round pegs in square holes.
Blunt (too old and useless now in my opinion) should never be put in the centre.
Robson Kanu is not a hold up player, so why even try to persist?
Please feel free to add your own.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on November 05, 2018, 10:55:25 PM
It isn't always about what you have got, it is sometimes about the way you use it.
Pulis tried the same thing....round pegs in square holes.
Blunt (too old and useless now in my opinion) should never be put in the centre.
Robson Kanu is not a hold up player, so why even try to persist?
Please feel free to add your own.


This is exactly my point.

He (Moore) has 3 central defenders playing a way they are not used to and not suited to. That is 3 of the 11 straight away who are square pegged.

Then there is Brunt who is not a central midfielder. So far that's 4 of the 11 not suited to the role they are asked to perform.

Matty Phillips is a natural winger not a wing back. 5 out of 11.

That is half a team square pegged. No wonder we don't resemble a team. You can get away with most things for a few games but not over a period of time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on November 05, 2018, 11:48:48 PM
Big fan of Big Dave, just not as a manager, seems to be a good number 2 type but as for in charge with his inability to see the simplest of things not working? no thanks.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on November 05, 2018, 11:52:10 PM

This is exactly my point.

He (Moore) has 3 central defenders playing a way they are not used to and not suited to. That is 3 of the 11 straight away who are square pegged.

Then there is Brunt who is not a central midfielder. So far that's 4 of the 11 not suited to the role they are asked to perform.

Matty Phillips is a natural winger not a wing back. (http://5 out of 11.)

That is half a team square pegged. No wonder we don't resemble a team. You can get away with most things for a few games but not over a period of time.

Six, actually. Mears isn't a footballer.

But on a serious note, Field isn't a CB either.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on November 06, 2018, 06:58:24 AM
Big fan of Big Dave, just not as a manager, seems to be a good number 2 type but as for in charge with his inability to see the simplest of things not working? no thanks.

The simple fact is that if it wasn't for his historic connections with the club he would not be anywhere near the manager/head coach job on a full time basis.
There's a world of difference between playing the last six games of a season with a squad of players vying for a move away and playing a full season with most of those same players that no one else would cough up for.
Would like to think he can turn it round but my head thinks that we will be looking for another head coach very shortly.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on November 06, 2018, 12:16:39 PM
What's a new bloke going to do though? He'll still have the same players, so will still have to play square pegs.
I agree that Moore needs to sort out tactics, but I'm not sure there's a magic wand, or system, that will suddenly turn the likes of Brunt, Livermore, Barry, Morrison, Field, Bartley, Hegazi, Dawson, HRK, Mears and Rodriguez into great players.
These are the same players that we keep saying are "Good on paper" but the truth is they are just not. When was the last time, even in our good period, any one of these put in a MotM performance? Our squad flatters to deceive on a massive scale and, as has been proved these last few games, if we lose Gayle and / or Barnes, the rest are just as shocking as they were last year.
We need to stick with Moore and clear out this dross, which, I'm afraid, will take more time than we probably anticipated. i just hope that this is what Dowling alluded to when he said we would look to accept bids for our "better" players and replace them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: stuvetti on November 06, 2018, 01:08:23 PM
I'm not sure the players in defence are as bad as performances suggest. The fact is that despite finishing bottom, we were "Mid-table" for goals against last season. We still have Gibbs, Hegazi and Dawson and so we should be more than capable of defending in this league.

What's changed is our shape and we are all over the place when we lose possession. The defence is left to fend for itself and the opposition have oodles of time to get pot shots away with no midfield closing down. Eventually a few "worldies" are going happen as we've seen.

City and others that want to play out from the back and play possession football are going 4-3-3 and perhaps that would be a better option for us. Dawson back at RB, Lets see if Bartley is better in a 2.

With the pace of Philips and Barnes and the goal scoring of Gayle we are more than capable of scoring on turnover ball. Sure it might be 2-1's and not 5-4's, but the aim is promotion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: NJS on November 06, 2018, 01:08:42 PM
What's a new bloke going to do though? He'll still have the same players, so will still have to play square pegs.
I agree that Moore needs to sort out tactics, but I'm not sure there's a magic wand, or system, that will suddenly turn the likes of Brunt, Livermore, Barry, Morrison, Field, Bartley, Hegazi, Dawson, HRK, Mears and Rodriguez into great players.
These are the same players that we keep saying are "Good on paper" but the truth is they are just not. When was the last time, even in our good period, any one of these put in a MotM performance? Our squad flatters to deceive on a massive scale and, as has been proved these last few games, if we lose Gayle and / or Barnes, the rest are just as shocking as they were last year.
We need to stick with Moore and clear out this dross, which, I'm afraid, will take more time than we probably anticipated. i just hope that this is what Dowling alluded to when he said we would look to accept bids for our "better" players and replace them.

Perhaps if the 3 CBs played in a back four with 3 proper midfielders in front of them - they would no longer be square pegs?  It's about playing to the strengths not the weaknesses of what you have.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: telford baggie on November 06, 2018, 01:31:52 PM
clear big dave out, clear his old has been mates out like brunt and take all the freebies with you that would be a good start...sooner hes gone the better
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WorcsWBA on November 06, 2018, 01:40:19 PM
Darren Moore is limited by the rubbish squad that we have assembled on the cheap and the requirement to change the way we play from the Pulisball dross that we have had served up for the last few seasons. Rome wasn't built in a day but the expectation is that it can be at a football club and maybe it can if you spend the money but not if you pick up players who nobody else want. There is definately an element that we have been found out, we have 3 or 4 players who can make a difference and if you mark them out the game the rest are limited or clueless. That isn't about Darren Moore, that is the squad and no change of coach is going to change that.
On the other hand, Darren spent all summer saying that he was happy with the squad. Old managerial hands always put public pressure on the board during transfer windows, but Darren never did that. There were clear flaws in the squad that were pointed out regularly on here during the summer and yet nothing was done about it. Darren does have some culpability for this in my view.

I think people would cut him a lot more slack if they could see that he was identifying the tactical/positional flaws and trying to address them. However, he's shown very little sign of that and so people have understandably become fed up with seeing the same mistakes (e.g. Brunt playing in central midfield) being made week-in and week-out. His substitutions have often left very much to be desired too, but it's somewhat encouraging that, for once, he didn't turn to Robson-Kanu last Saturday.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on November 06, 2018, 02:07:58 PM
Perhaps if the 3 CBs played in a back four with 3 proper midfielders in front of them - they would no longer be square pegs?  It's about playing to the strengths not the weaknesses of what you have.
If you play the 3 CB's in a back four,  at least one of them is a square peg, two if they are all right footed, and we don't have 3 proper midfielders. Brunt is not a CM, Barry is too old, as are Mozza and Hoolahan and Livermore is just very poor.
The point is that any new manager will have the same problems.
As I said in a previous post, if Darren refused new signings in favour of these experienced failures, then he has no-one to blame but himself. If, however, this scenario was forced on him by lack of backing, then the same will apply to his successor, therefore sacking him is not just futile but grossly unfair.
I think we need to wake up, to the glaring lack of quality in this team, despite what it says "on paper", and re-adjust our expectations.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on November 06, 2018, 02:14:48 PM
On the other hand, Darren spent all summer saying that he was happy with the squad. Old managerial hands always put public pressure on the board during transfer windows, but Darren never did that. There were clear flaws in the squad that were pointed out regularly on here during the summer and yet nothing was done about it. Darren does have some culpability for this in my view.

I think people would cut him a lot more slack if they could see that he was identifying the tactical/positional flaws and trying to address them. However, he's shown very little sign of that and so people have understandably become fed up with seeing the same mistakes (e.g. Brunt playing in central midfield) being made week-in and week-out. His substitutions have often left very much to be desired too, but it's somewhat encouraging that, for once, he didn't turn to Robson-Kanu last Saturday.

Probably saying that because he was new to the role and wanted to say the right things in front of his chairman. He is hardly going to turn around and criticise them, but I know what you are saying and even if he did think that then, I bet he doesn't now. I know we don't!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on November 06, 2018, 02:32:02 PM
If you play the 3 CB's in a back four,  at least one of them is a square peg, two if they are all right footed, and we don't have 3 proper midfielders. Brunt is not a CM, Barry is too old, as are Mozza and Hoolahan and Livermore is just very poor.
The point is that any new manager will have the same problems.
As I said in a previous post, if Darren refused new signings in favour of these experienced failures, then he has no-one to blame but himself. If, however, this scenario was forced on him by lack of backing, then the same will apply to his successor, therefore sacking him is not just futile but grossly unfair.
I think we need to wake up, to the glaring lack of quality in this team, despite what it says "on paper", and re-adjust our expectations.
I feel it’s more the latter than the former, especially as we had the documented fallout with Terraneo and Jenkins and so lost the guy who was meant to be heading up recruitment. I don’t think it’s surprising after that that many of the player we ended up getting were known or had close relations to Big Dave. Add that there was the chairman who said that Moore was calling about a player (I think Ryan Woods) everyday without official correspondence from the club adds strength that we lacked either the will or the ability to back him.

 He’s also had 1 window where , despite being “happy with the squad”, we brought in 10 players (3 on loan) with 7 of them aged 27 or under and I can honestly say bar Bartley the new players haven’t been that bad when called upon. Mears and Hoolahan have done a utility job, Townsend had a stinker first game but has looked better recently, Tosin similar and Gayle and Barnes have done great, Bond and Sako haven’t played enough to make an opinion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on November 06, 2018, 03:10:02 PM
I would be more than interested to know what it is that he actually analysis?
After every game he says that he and his team will sit down and analyse the game and pick the bones out of it, then get ready for the next game.
How much analysis does it require to see that HRK is a waste of a shirt, or Bartley, Hegazi and Dawson are accidents waiting to happen in this formation?
Puzzling remarks really when you see the same mistakes week after week.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 06, 2018, 04:03:55 PM
Are people really trying to blame the squad? Wow.

I am sure any team in the league would love to be able to start a front four of Sako, Barnes and Phillips behind Gayle with J-Rod on the bench. Darren just chooses not to do this, or to make substitutions that make any sense whatsoever or to give an interview that actually identifies what went wrong and analyses the performance or change a system that has barely worked all season with every performance being utter tripe or stop playing Brunt in the centre of pigging midfield.

Buck has to stop with him I'm afraid, as great a player as he was for us. He should never have been appointed and I blame the majority of fans as there was such a groundswell of opinion for him to be appointed.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on November 06, 2018, 04:11:27 PM
I loved Darren Moore as a player and will never boo an Albion player or manager (although I hated Pardew), as I believe that role is reserved for the opposition.

However, I didn't feel Darren Moore was the right person for the job, as I felt the Albion manager had to earn the job by getting at least 2 promotions elsewhere and to have known his job when he came to us.

I fear Darren Moore is too nice.

He waited for GJ to go on holiday, when he should have been offered the job on the basis he would come in straight away as we needed him, in pre season, in order for him to give this passing style he wants a proper chance in training and in pre season games.

It is well documented that Terraneo had been sidelined and Garlick had left, so Darren Moore and MJ were doing everything on and off the pitch.

Darren Moore has been dealt a terrible hand in that MJ sole goal is cutting costs and the man who takes the blame is Darren Moore.

It's a results business and if Darren Moore doesn't show some guts and stamp his own authority and tighten up the defence, like he did when he took over last season when he ground out a point to end that horrendous run, he will be sacked.

The Leeds game will tell us if he adapts to the circumstances or if lets GJ get him the boot.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on November 06, 2018, 06:14:37 PM
What's a new bloke going to do though? He'll still have the same players, so will still have to play square pegs.
I agree that Moore needs to sort out tactics, but I'm not sure there's a magic wand, or system, that will suddenly turn the likes of Brunt, Livermore, Barry, Morrison, Field, Bartley, Hegazi, Dawson, HRK, Mears and Rodriguez into great players.
These are the same players that we keep saying are "Good on paper" but the truth is they are just not. When was the last time, even in our good period, any one of these put in a MotM performance? Our squad flatters to deceive on a massive scale and, as has been proved these last few games, if we lose Gayle and / or Barnes, the rest are just as shocking as they were last year.
We need to stick with Moore and clear out this dross, which, I'm afraid, will take more time than we probably anticipated. i just hope that this is what Dowling alluded to when he said we would look to accept bids for our "better" players and replace them.

They don't have to be 'great players' for now in order for us to finish in the top 6 this season.

Do you really think that the likes of Sheffield Utd, Norwich, even Leeds and Derby have personnel any better than what is at DM's disposal? I don't. They are Championship quality sides,  nothing more.

Cardiff and Fulham were promoted last season, I watched both of them a decent number of times. I maintain their squads are (or at least were last season) no better than what we currently have, and I include the much maligned Bartley in that assessment. Neither had any strength in depth and 2-3 injuries to key players would have seen them done for. I would go as far to say that no more than 2 or 3 players from the both of their squads from last season would be able to come into our current XI and give it some improvement!

It's no surprise that in 22 league games between them so far this season they have registered 2 wins, one of which came from beating the other! This is how poor and lacking in quality they both were, yet they were promoted.

They were however both superbly coached by two very intelligent, experienced, and ruthless managers.

The players aren't the problem with us at the moment, it's the coaching.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on November 06, 2018, 07:05:52 PM
My view is that there are 'faults' on both sides - players and coaches.
Some players clearly didn't think they would be here and that they were too good for us. However a quick look shows they were part of a relegated side so in effect were not good enough themselves to be in the Premier League. That in itself is the price we pay for over inflated ego's. My thoughts on this is that we know who they are so the management must also know. They still keep playing them and in the selfish way of modern day footballers they are only playing to get away in January should someone be daft enough to take a punt. Lets be fair we bemoaned the loss of Rondon but he's not exactly set the world on fire and I would take Gayle every time over him.
Then there's the coaching. Sort out the system, play players that actually have a desire to play, check out the opposition and attack their weak points. It's not rocket science, other teams are doing it to us.
I can't believe that we don't have 11 players who would pull on an Albion shirt and give their all. The fact they are supposedly professional footballers suggests they can play a bit. It's not a difficult game but we do have a tendency to make it look difficult.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on November 06, 2018, 10:10:52 PM
Yeah and the key gaping hole is a fit genuine AM that can produce on a regular basis or alternatively slot into CM to provide some legs and attacking threat. If Morrison was still 25 it would have been a good decision to keep him but given his age and the return we've had from him in the last two years it made it a blindly optimistic decision that was never going to work.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on November 07, 2018, 10:52:54 AM
They don't have to be 'great players' for now in order for us to finish in the top 6 this season.

Do you really think that the likes of Sheffield Utd, Norwich, even Leeds and Derby have personnel any better than what is at DM's disposal? I don't. They are Championship quality sides,  nothing more.

Cardiff and Fulham were promoted last season, I watched both of them a decent number of times. I maintain their squads are (or at least were last season) no better than what we currently have, and I include the much maligned Bartley in that assessment. Neither had any strength in depth and 2-3 injuries to key players would have seen them done for. I would go as far to say that no more than 2 or 3 players from the both of their squads from last season would be able to come into our current XI and give it some improvement!

It's no surprise that in 22 league games between them so far this season they have registered 2 wins, one of which came from beating the other! This is how poor and lacking in quality they both were, yet they were promoted.

They were however both superbly coached by two very intelligent, experienced, and ruthless managers.

The players aren't the problem with us at the moment, it's the coaching.
If it's purely down to the coaching then Darren is the 3rd to fail with pretty much the same group of player, 2 of whom were far more experienced than him and all had completely different tactics and systems.
I agree wholeheartedly that Darren has a lot to learn and is not perfect but I also think our squad is dramatically over-rated  and to think that a new head coach could come in and suddenly transform  performances is naive.
As backofthenet says, there are issues on both sides of the fence so, to address only one solves nothing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on November 07, 2018, 01:34:21 PM
The squad isn't perfect by any stretch, but there is no excuse for them failing to beat an awful Hull side, and Blackburn and Wigan who were in League 1 last season. Either the players don't want to play for Moore (which is almost certainly not the case), or he is a poor head coach who can't set them up correctly to get the best out of them (something I think we have seen vast evidence of this season).

Fail to beat Leeds and I don't see how he can stay in the job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Nice1Cyrille on November 07, 2018, 02:08:38 PM

Fail to beat Leeds and I don't see how he can stay in the job.

I think Albion are looking to Big D for the transfer window, so unless we go lose another 4 or 5 before then I don;t see him being released. Leeds are a decent team so it would have to be a thrashing for any movement by the board.
On the other hand, the last 4 games have been awful to watch so maybe you are on to something.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on November 07, 2018, 03:46:19 PM
We don't always see what happens in the club. We see some of the symptoms I guess (e.g. Pardew!!).

I don't see players giving up but it does seem Darren needs a plan B and maybe C as his plan A is being found out.

I'm not convinced on a Martinez (Jones) style 3-5-2 , playing out from the back through midfield with the players we have for a start.

I'd think we'd do better to have a much more compact set up and use the movement / pace of Gayle, Barnes, Phillips and maybe Sako to open teams up.  I like what Darren is trying to do but I think he's in danger of becoming an idealist failure like Mowbray did ultimatley (in the premier league) .

Often it's about momentum/ results and you get better performances as you get momentum .

We have a top 8 squad but not top 2 so I think we're about where we deserve to be.



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on November 07, 2018, 10:49:56 PM
Think Jones is behind playing out from back but who keeps picking Brunt in midfield? He should have his head examined.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on November 08, 2018, 09:32:29 AM
Darren has to be strong here and put the 3 at the back  experiment to one side until we get the players that can do it.
Clearly it's Jones behind it and if that upsets him then tough in my view.
No more Brunt in the middle , no more Jrod starting every game but offering nothing and no more 3 at the back.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on November 08, 2018, 09:42:51 AM
Darren has to be strong here and put the 3 at the back  experiment to one side until we get the players that can do it.
Clearly it's Jones behind it and if that upsets him then tough in my view.
No more Brunt in the middle , no more Jrod starting every game but offering nothing and no more 3 at the back.


Absolutely. Darren Moore is the HEAD COACH he takes responsibility and he should be dictating how the team play with the coaches underneath him carrying out his instructions.

Whoever heard of the head coach carrying out a lesser ranks instructions?

Darren needs to grab the situation by the scruff of the neck, show some leadership, show some steel and make certain that things are done his way. He is not just a front man he is the main man. He must start acting like it before someone else loses him his job.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on November 08, 2018, 10:04:31 AM

Absolutely. Darren Moore is the HEAD COACH he takes responsibility and he should be dictating how the team play with the coaches underneath him carrying out his instructions.

Whoever heard of the head coach carrying out a lesser ranks instructions?

Darren needs to grab the situation by the scruff of the neck, show some leadership, show some steel and make certain that things are done his way. He is not just a front man he is the main man. He must start acting like it before someone else loses him his job.

It seems strange to think that Darren Moore is being dictated to by his coaching staff.   Surely it is more that Darren Moore shares Jone's footballing philosophy and principles, and that is why he was so keen to bring him into the club?  The similarity with Mowbray is telling.....both beasts of a defender who want to play fluid, pass from the back football.   I can only presume that as defenders this was the type of football they hated playing against the most; lets face it they were both commanding in the air and able to bully forwards playing in a direct team.  Not so good against skill full strikers running at them at pace.   Don't disagree that the management team need to re-asses how we play with the players we have, but I genuinely think this is driven by the HC as well as AC.   

In theory we DO need to play to the strengths of the squad we have, but I'm not exactly sure what those strengths are if we do take away Gayle and Barnes?  On other threads I have moved towards the idea of 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 so as not to expose the ageing midfield and its lack of pace and energy. But will that leave us  playing channel balls and % football as there are no genuinely creative midfielders at the club?  These system potentially leave us reliant on Phillips regaining his early season form and Sakho coming good.   For me Gayle's return and Barnes form are key to any system working. 

Interesting times.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on November 08, 2018, 01:07:47 PM
Think Jones is behind playing out from back but who keeps picking Brunt in midfield? He should have his head examined.

Moore.

He went with Brunt in midfield last season too.

We were far more compact however and got away with it. Now we are open and exposed and the defensive frailties really show.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggieboyfred on November 08, 2018, 03:03:13 PM
I have said this before on this forum, by continuing to play a back 3 , not only is Big Dave continuing to coach a defence that leaks goals , he has managed to turn Dawson and Heghazi from competent premiership defenders into a pair of less than average championship defenders , please please  get this team playing 4 at the back , because with those 2 plus Gibbs and one other , we will have a defence that would be as good as the majority of the championship , to go with the obvious attributes of Gayle, Barnes and Phillips when all are fit going forward but he must start this back 4 against Leeds this week , before we get to far behind, there is no outstanding team in this years  title run so we should make play offs at very least hopefully with Big Dave , but if he is unable to do whats necessary then it will have to be without  him
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on November 08, 2018, 04:24:07 PM
I have said this before on this forum, by continuing to play a back 3 , not only is Big Dave continuing to coach a defence that leaks goals , he has managed to turn Dawson and Heghazi from competent premiership defenders into a pair of less than average championship defenders , please please  get this team playing 4 at the back , because with those 2 plus Gibbs and one other , we will have a defence that would be as good as the majority of the championship , to go with the obvious attributes of Gayle, Barnes and Phillips when all are fit going forward but he must start this back 4 against Leeds this week , before we get to far behind, there is no outstanding team in this years  title run so we should make play offs at very least hopefully with Big Dave , but if he is unable to do whats necessary then it will have to be without  him
And the back four you recommend wouldn't have to play like they are on a table football stick, there's nothing wrong with giving Gibbs more licence to roam than whoever is RB, doesn't have to be symmetrical, clubs often have an outright left winger but no right winger to balance the generally higher number of right footers and therefore crosses from the right eg Willie.  Basically no more 3xCBs please!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on November 08, 2018, 06:53:26 PM
It seems strange to think that Darren Moore is being dictated to by his coaching staff.   Surely it is more that Darren Moore shares Jone's footballing philosophy and principles, and that is why he was so keen to bring him into the club? The similarity with Mowbray is telling.....both beasts of a defender who want to play fluid, pass from the back football.   I can only presume that as defenders this was the type of football they hated playing against the most; lets face it they were both commanding in the air and able to bully forwards playing in a direct team.  Not so good against skill full strikers running at them at pace.   Don't disagree that the management team need to re-asses how we play with the players we have, but I genuinely think this is driven by the HC as well as AC.   

In theory we DO need to play to the strengths of the squad we have, but I'm not exactly sure what those strengths are if we do take away Gayle and Barnes?  On other threads I have moved towards the idea of 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 so as not to expose the ageing midfield and its lack of pace and energy. But will that leave us  playing channel balls and % football as there are no genuinely creative midfielders at the club?  These system potentially leave us reliant on Phillips regaining his early season form and Sakho coming good.   For me Gayle's return and Barnes form are key to any system working. 

Interesting times.


Yep. As soon as I wrote "dictate" I knew it wasn't quite the right word / phrase but I couldn't find the correct one. You got my point anyway.  ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on November 08, 2018, 07:45:19 PM

This is exactly my point.

He (Moore) has 3 central defenders playing a way they are not used to and not suited to. That is 3 of the 11 straight away who are square pegged.

Then there is Brunt who is not a central midfielder. So far that's 4 of the 11 not suited to the role they are asked to perform.

Matty Phillips is a natural winger not a wing back. 5 out of 11.

That is half a team square pegged. No wonder we don't resemble a team. You can get away with most things for a few games but not over a period of time.

I said when Moore was appointed he needed to choose the style in which he wanted his team to play then sign players suited to that style.
it's not the style that wrong its the player who through no fault  of their own aren't suited to play it.
The January window is a chance to sign 3-4 (minimum with more to follow) players suited do the job Moore wants us to play having missed that chance in pre season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Westie on November 08, 2018, 09:28:39 PM
Sign 3 or 4 new players in January? Where will the money come from? Anyway, if by some chance we were to achieve promotion, we would need to sign a whole new squad, otherwise we would be relegated again. There is more chance of me being the first man on Mars than Lai coughing up the cash for that!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VVVAlbion on November 08, 2018, 10:03:15 PM

If you look at the back of our matchday programme and compare our squad with our opponents ours is sizeable. It's all very well saying Moore is hampered by the squad he has but he has a far, far better squad than most clubs in the Championship, you could argue all clubs. We were awful at Hull on Saturday look at their squad and compare it to ours.

I know Graeme Jones is having a major influence on how we play but Darren Moore is HEAD coach he carries the can, he is ultimately responsible for what we do on the pitch. If he is being over-inflenced by Jones then he's not strong enough to be a head coach.

Yes, we had to change from Pulisball but now we've gone completely the other way no organisation, no solidity, no structure. It doesn't have to be one or the other i.e.e ultra pragmatic or no pragmatism there is a middle ground.

A lot of coaches would give their right arm for a squad like Albion's. Darren is making the job hard by playing the system he is and picking the players he is perfect example Brunt in CM.EVERYBODY can see that Brunt is not a CM.

What is concerning is that we seem to be getting worse rather than better. Following the showing at Hull I'd question whether the players have lost or are losing belief in what they are supposed to be doing.

The best we've played all season was the opening half an hour of the Coventry game in the pre season friendly (lower league opposition I know). We've gone a fair way backwards since then.
Personally I think you over exaggerate the strength of our squad. The squad finished bottom of the Premier League and have been added to by mainly cheap, free, loans or non contracted players. I'm not suggesting they are all rubbish, far from it, but they failed under Pulis, Pardew and now struggling with Big Dave, they are the constant. We have talent but limited talent and it is easy to stifle the talent we have and I struggle to see how a change in management  (or tactics) would change that. Time and better players might though.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on November 08, 2018, 10:13:34 PM
Sign 3 or 4 new players in January? Where will the money come from? Anyway, if by some chance we were to achieve promotion, we would need to sign a whole new squad, otherwise we would be relegated again. There is more chance of me being the first man on Mars than Lai coughing up the cash for that!

we would need to sign a whole new squad
No we wouldn't maybe 8 players in all tolled, which we should have done in pre season

There is more chance of me being the first man on Mars than Lai coughing up the cash for that!
 By cutting the wage bill of the 1st teamers not up to ot it & i would be cheaper at a guess by the reduction in the wage bill
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VVVAlbion on November 08, 2018, 10:14:12 PM
We don't always see what happens in the club. We see some of the symptoms I guess (e.g. Pardew!!).

I don't see players giving up but it does seem Darren needs a plan B and maybe C as his plan A is being found out.

I'm not convinced on a Martinez (Jones) style 3-5-2 , playing out from the back through midfield with the players we have for a start.

I'd think we'd do better to have a much more compact set up and use the movement / pace of Gayle, Barnes, Phillips and maybe Sako to open teams up.  I like what Darren is trying to do but I think he's in danger of becoming an idealist failure like Mowbray did ultimatley (in the premier league) .

Often it's about momentum/ results and you get better performances as you get momentum .

We have a top 8 squad but not top 2 so I think we're about where we deserve to be.
During games we have played with a back three, four and five, we have played with one or two in front of however many are in defense and one or two behind a lone striker or two up front. We swap a striker who feeds of the shoulder of the defense for one who holds the play up for mI'd field to join in. Tactically we have lots of plans but our only succesful one seems to be when we get the ball to our good players quickly and as has been shown this is becoming easy to defend against.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on November 09, 2018, 04:14:10 AM
Can't be true that we have got the second most expensive wage bill in Championship, how much is that HRK on?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on November 09, 2018, 06:28:38 AM
Can't be true that we have got the second most expensive wage bill in Championship, how much is that HRK on?

However much he's on he's overpaid
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 09, 2018, 07:50:17 AM
Can't be true that we have got the second most expensive wage bill in Championship, how much is that HRK on?

Even at 50% of premiership wages our players are on a high wage for the Championship. I would imagine HRK is on about £20K a week.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maccbaggie on November 09, 2018, 08:31:17 AM
Given that we have the second highest wage bill in the league, the expectation that should logically follow for this season is finishing 2nd.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on November 09, 2018, 09:00:52 AM
Given that we have the second highest wage bill in the league, the expectation that should logically follow for this season is finishing 2nd.
I'd bet our wage bill wasn't the lowest last season , bit flawed that logic for me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on November 09, 2018, 09:09:25 AM
I would be surprised if our wage bill was the 2nd biggest Villa have horrible fat berg of a wage bill still and Stoke are definitely higher than us not sure where Boro are at but ours has to be comparable and no doubt top 4 and probably double the average for the Division.

HRK's contract is apparently £25k a week Barry's £30k few if any of our squad are on less than £20k a week. Although the new signings and the kids might be. In short for those who were wondering where the parachute payments were going there is your answer equally why are we stuck with the squad well few if any clubs would be interested at their current wages. 

The reality is as I said earlier this squad is strong on paper but it is flawed on many levels we are paying a heavy price for some truly terrible decisions and unfortunately all the chickens have come home to roost on Darren's watch.

Over time wage bill and league finish have a very strong correlation it is a useful measure of expectation but sometimes there is a dramatic mismatch between performance and wage bill.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on November 09, 2018, 11:21:29 AM
I would be surprised if our wage bill was the 2nd biggest Villa have horrible fat berg of a wage bill still and Stoke are definitely higher than us not sure where Boro are at but ours has to be comparable and no doubt top 4 and probably double the average for the Division.

HRK's contract is apparently £25k a week Barry's £30k few if any of our squad are on less than £20k a week. Although the new signings and the kids might be. In short for those who were wondering where the parachute payments were going there is your answer equally why are we stuck with the squad well few if any clubs would be interested at their current wages. 

The reality is as I said earlier this squad is strong on paper but it is flawed on many levels we are paying a heavy price for some truly terrible decisions and unfortunately all the chickens have come home to roost on Darren's watch.

Over time wage bill and league finish have a very strong correlation it is a useful measure of expectation but sometimes there is a dramatic mismatch between performance and wage bill.
Stokes is the highest I believe. I also I agree that wage and position can be correlated but also sometimes don’t match up, otherwise every relegated club would get back up first time no problem at all.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on November 09, 2018, 11:28:00 AM
So in prem HRK was on 50 k a week  :o who the hell over see's these contracts? Not picking on the boy but I'm dumb founded.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on November 09, 2018, 12:15:34 PM
So in prem HRK was on 50 k a week  :o who the hell over see's these contracts? Not picking on the boy but I'm dumb founded.
So, if my maths is correct, he's made over £5m playing for us.  :-[
Why did I try so hard at school and not just play it off over the park, honing my skills  :'(
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 09, 2018, 12:50:35 PM
So, if my maths is correct, he's made over £5m playing for us.  :-[
Why did I try so hard at school and not just play it off over the park, honing my skills  :'(

In fairness, there is not much evidence of skills being honed in the case of HRK. Stealing a living that fella.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on November 09, 2018, 12:58:13 PM
So, if my maths is correct, he's made over £5m playing for us.  :-[
Why did I try so hard at school and not just play it off over the park, honing my skills  :'(

yes, but is he as happy in his job as you are ??  :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BAGGIE5 on November 09, 2018, 04:16:32 PM
Is there no press conferences this week?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on November 09, 2018, 05:59:14 PM
Given that we have the second highest wage bill in the league, the expectation that should logically follow for this season is finishing 2nd.

Over rated, over paid, over here!!  Hasn't been any value in signing experienced British pros for years.  But it was the capped ones preference. One paced, one dimensional or injury prone has been our scouting ticklist.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on November 09, 2018, 07:55:27 PM
Honest question..
Does anyone understand what he is doing?
He did well at the end of last season, but has now found himself up against what is now a new seasen.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on November 10, 2018, 09:57:45 AM
So, if my maths is correct, he's made over £5m playing for us.  :-[
Why did I try so hard at school and not just play it off over the park, honing my skills  :'(

Not quite I think his initial contract was relatively short (2 years?) and considerably less generous but we gave him a new contract in 2017 until 2020. Question: what is worse than peak HRK? Answer: post peak HRK. What are we currently paying for? Post Peak HRK. Will anyone ever take post peak HRK at £25k a week or if promoted at £50k a week? No. Could we have done something different and more than likely better for the same money or less? Hell yes. Unfortunately we are where we are and this is the legacy Darren Moore has to deal with.

Why do teams under perform their payroll? Off the top of my head I can think of four or five.

1. Injury. Key players get injured for instance our payroll was greatly inflated by Daniel Sturridge last season and we got zero bangs for those bucks. You can look at other examples Arsenal for instance have spent literally millions on players whose injury records have been just awful. Ramsey, Wellbeck Wilshire etc... Yes all teams suffer with injury but when 20% of your payroll is out it makes a difference.

2. Mismatch between Coaches style and players at the club. Expensively assembled and well rewarded squad has been put together to play a certain way get new Head Coach with different ideas things go wrong.

3. Jose Mourinho in his 3rd season. Yes I joke but there is a pattern.

4. Gross Mismanagement of a squad. This has several sub sections of bad management which mega rich clubs can indulge in but the mere mortals like ourselves quickly run into to trouble if we go down the path. Put simply paying too much money for too little talent.

5. Your Head Coach is Alan Pardew. It is the Loins lead by donkeys syndrome. Nothing much wrong with the squad players paid what they are worth but your club has played Head Coach roulette and the ball has landed on zero and congratulations you have won Alan Pardew. I might be unfair it is not just Alan but you get my drift.

6. A big influx of players which bloat the wage bill but don't gel. Say hello Fulham. 

Where are we? Injuries haven't played any significant part in where we find ourselves. We have 2 and 4. This squad was put together to play Pulisball and now Moore is trying to get that Elephant to dance.

I have sympathy for his position. The squad is what it is and it isn't going to be fixed overnight and even if it were see point 6 above. However the question is Moore up to the task?

We have a rookie Head Coach managing a dysfunctional squad although one that is on paper stronger than most in the division. In the case of Pulis or Pardew we had known quantities. Pulis was a functional grinder and Pardew was a fraud based on records that stretched back seasons.

 Whereas Moore is still an unknown quantity. Prior to this season I would never have guessed that we would be trying to play the football we are trying to play. It might be ill advised it might be a mistake the biggest and tragically the only one he gets to make but it is undoubtedly brave has some basis in logic and deserves our support.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on November 10, 2018, 10:43:01 AM
Big Dave could do with a win today to keep us in the pack. If we lose, although I don’t think the board will, I also wouldn’t be that surprised if they pull the trigger. 1 point from 16 is poor. If it’s a Derby style thumping it’ll he’s genuinely on the brink I think.

Think we will get a win though. Come on you baggies!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on November 10, 2018, 10:52:36 AM
Big Dave could do with a win today to keep us in the pack. If we lose, although I don’t think the board will, I also wouldn’t be that surprised if they pull the trigger. 1 point from 16 is poor. If it’s a Derby style thumping it’ll he’s genuinely on the brink I think.

Think we will get a win though. Come on you baggies!

No I don't think he is even close to being under threat regardless of the outcome of today's game. At some point he will be and the fans will probably be calling for his head long before the board will act but we are way off that now.

Incidentally I was looking back at the Giles promotion season as I got drawn into a discussion on twitter about that era. We got off to a really slow start that year again with a new manager trying to put into practice a very different playing style. I honestly think Giles might not have made to Christmas in the modern era. Howe who was an unmitigated disaster got 4 years to wreck havoc!!

Nobody gets a chance to build anything these days in football. The last person that was afforded that luxury at the club was bloody Pulis.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on November 10, 2018, 11:43:39 AM
I don't know. I think if we were to lose by 3 or 4 goals today the boo's at full time, and the online storm afterward will be pretty loud. Follow that with a loss to Ipswich and I think its almost untenable. Even a narrow defeat today followed by a loss at Ipswich its hard to see him surviving so for me the threat is there now.

In respect of giving people a change,  I don't think anyone thought Pardew deserved any more time, and Pulis was only one manager prior.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on November 10, 2018, 11:53:00 AM
I don't know. I think if we were to lose by 3 or 4 goals today the boo's at full time, and the online storm afterward will be pretty loud. Follow that with a loss to Ipswich and I think its almost untenable. Even a narrow defeat today followed by a loss at Ipswich its hard to see him surviving so for me the threat is there now.

In respect of giving people a change,  I don't think anyone thought Pardew deserved any more time, and Pulis was only one manager prior.

I think a defeat today would send the doubters into overdrive but the fixture that will cause him a major problem if we get tanked will be Villa at home.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on November 10, 2018, 11:59:38 AM
I can't see how it will get that far if it doesn't pick up. Ive just looked at our history of fixtures on Wiki (which are colour coded so it only requires a quick scan).....

If we don't win in the next two games I think its our worst run of results in the second tier since we finished 21st in 1999/2000 (we went 6 or more without a win on a couple of occasions that year). As most people seem to be predicting a loss today, thats not unfathomable.

Thats nearly 20 years. In fact, it looks like we have only gone 4 without a win on 3/4 occasions over that time, and I think we have only gone 5 without a win once. Something we do today if we don't beat the side top of the league!



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on November 10, 2018, 01:25:17 PM
I can't see how it will get that far if it doesn't pick up. Ive just looked at our history of fixtures on Wiki (which are colour coded so it only requires a quick scan).....

If we don't win in the next two games I think its our worst run of results in the second tier since we finished 21st in 1999/2000 (we went 6 or more without a win on a couple of occasions that year). As most people seem to be predicting a loss today, thats not unfathomable.

Thats nearly 20 years. In fact, it looks like we have only gone 4 without a win on 3/4 occasions over that time, and I think we have only gone 5 without a win once. Something we do today if we don't beat the side top of the league!
I think we went 10 games without a win under Pardew and 12 under Pulis.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on November 10, 2018, 02:12:32 PM
I think we went 10 games without a win under Pardew and 12 under Pulis.

We've had some baaad runs in the top flight. Quick google gave me this from an old Telegraph piece on longest winless runs

12. Team: West Brom Winless run: 15  Date of last game: 16-Jan-05

Of course this has since been smashed by

◾Record consecutive games without a win, all competitions: 21 (August 2017 – January 2018)[

Although I think the original post from JC was only looking at 2nd tier football.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on November 10, 2018, 05:00:30 PM
Does this bloke want the sack HRK on with Gayle on bench, so that's us playing with ten men.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dan on November 10, 2018, 05:20:36 PM
Considering the club has got almost every managerial selection horrifically wrong in the last 5 years, even when it was obviously going to turn out that way, I'm scared the alternative would be even worse - just need to hope Moore picks up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on November 10, 2018, 06:50:54 PM
 8)

Genius
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on November 10, 2018, 07:24:52 PM
Fantastic performance and result today. Finally went to four at the back and dropped Brunt.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Black Country Pride on November 10, 2018, 07:49:23 PM
Deserves great credit as he got it spot on tonight. Boing Boing
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on November 10, 2018, 08:00:46 PM
Had to make changes and did, and it paid dividends. To the person who made the comment about DM being a cretin has either removed it or had it removed you should be ashamed of your behaviour!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 10, 2018, 08:17:29 PM
If we had lost everyone would have piled in on this thread but funnily enough now we’ve won it’s very quiet.

A tactical change and a incredibly energetic performance against one of the best sides in the league. Well done Darren and the team.

Special word for Kanu. I’m not a fan and was surprised at his selection but he was absolutely excellent and a big part of making the formation work.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on November 10, 2018, 08:20:29 PM
I think you're wrong.  Even at half time we were waaaay better in previous games, anyone could see that.  If we'd have lost and played like that the entire game it would have still been good progress.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on November 10, 2018, 08:20:59 PM
Does this bloke want the sack HRK on with Gayle on bench, so that's us playing with ten men.

:)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on November 10, 2018, 08:28:47 PM
His record against “high profile” managers is great :)

Beat: Benitez, Poch, Mourinho, Bielsa
Drew: Klopp
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on November 10, 2018, 08:29:31 PM
Its all about fine margins, thought he set the team up well tonight and the team applied themselves well.
Phillips awesome and fair play to HRK if he performed like that every week he wouldn't get the stick he has drawn upon himself
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on November 10, 2018, 08:37:28 PM
At last Darren uses a bit of common sense tactically and look at the performance and result. Well done to him for adapting. I'm just baffled as to why this wasn't done earlier. A blind man could see that the setup was all wrong.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on November 10, 2018, 08:45:34 PM
Well done Darren Moore I had hoped and said he should go back to basics at the back like he did last season to get that point to halt that terrible run and you did it in a great fashion.

He still has the players on his side and today they played the way they can.

Now he must stick to this and the clean sheets will come and we've got a great chance of at least a top 6 finish, especially if we strengthen with a box to box mf in Jan.

Hopefully, Tosin can continue to grow at rb and Bartley stays on the bench before a Jan departure.

If he wants to persist with the 3 at the back, then he should do when we are winning by a significant margin or promotion has been achieved.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on November 10, 2018, 08:50:44 PM
The back 4 was a huge improvement, in my view it was our best, most balanced performance of the season as a result.

Overall Moore did really well today and it showed. I just hope he keeps the back 4 and keeps Brunt and Bartley away from the 11 and we should start to perform again.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on November 10, 2018, 09:06:00 PM
Okay that has bought him another 2 games :o
Delighted that he has managed to halt the slide in some style.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hunsletbaggie on November 10, 2018, 09:17:27 PM
 Got the tactics spot against the team I believe are the best in the league.We have got to move forward with the back four because Dawson and Hegazi are decent at this level can go into work Monday with my head held high now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on November 10, 2018, 09:20:59 PM
Fantastic performance and result today. Finally went to four at the back and dropped Brunt.

Brunt was injured
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on November 10, 2018, 09:29:01 PM
Got the tactics spot against the team I believe are the best in the league.We have got to move forward with the back four because Dawson and Hegazi are decent at this level can go into work Monday with my head held high now.

I thought Leeds were very ordinary and had nothing up front.

I would like kalvin Phillips though.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kanu on November 10, 2018, 09:45:00 PM
Thought we were superb today. Stripped it all back to basics, rolled our sleeves up and fought for the ball before trying any fancy stuff. It’s what we we all want to see. Credit to Big Dave for both getting them up for it and changing the system. Big Dave’s successful time at the Albion was built on players like Derek McInnes & co busting
a gut, doing the dirty work and letting the flair players like super Bob take the plaudits. Great to see that we have a ‘team’ again after the embarrassing performance’s of the last few weeks.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on November 10, 2018, 10:09:55 PM
set us up perfectly, much more solid at the back and more movement in midfield. well done Moore.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on November 10, 2018, 10:35:59 PM
Thought we were superb today. Stripped it all back to basics, rolled our sleeves up and fought for the ball before trying any fancy stuff. It’s what we we all want to see. Credit to Big Dave for both getting them up for it and changing the system. Big Dave’s successful time at the Albion was built on players like Derek McInnes & co busting
a gut, doing the dirty work and letting the flair players like super Bob take the plaudits. Great to see that we have a ‘team’ again after the embarrassing performance’s of the last few weeks.
Good post, spot on
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 10, 2018, 10:38:36 PM
I think you're wrong.  Even at half time we were waaaay better in previous games, anyone could see that.  If we'd have lost and played like that the entire game it would have still been good progress.

Sorry but regardless of performance if we’d have got beat this forum would have been going nuts.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on November 10, 2018, 11:38:02 PM
It was the best performance of the season by a mile and I think some don't realise what a terrible position we were in the summer with DM and MJ doing everything.

Hopefully, with LD in place we can start a root and branch rebuild and have some good additions lined up for Jan, which has to include a box to box mf.

If we turn those wigan and Hull defeats into hard fought one nil wins with this much more solid defence we won't be far off the top 2.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on November 11, 2018, 01:42:35 AM
Great performance and a tactical master stroke by big Dave, what do us humble fans know? Apologies to Darren and Hal from a humbled fan
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on November 11, 2018, 01:46:18 AM
Great performance and a tactical master stroke by big Dave, what do us humble fans know? Apologies to Darren and Hal from a humbled fan


Quite a lot seeing as some of us have been screaming out for that system for weeks on end.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on November 11, 2018, 06:43:32 AM
Great performance and a tactical master stroke by big Dave, what do us humble fans know? Apologies to Darren and Hal from a humbled fan

Don't over do it.
He should have changed to this system weeks ago and we know it
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on November 11, 2018, 10:25:48 AM
I criticise him when he gets it wrong, so only fair I praise him when he gets it right.

The system change suited us better, it allows our defenders to just defend and let the front line do the damage.

Thought Morrison was top notch in midfield today, brought a calm head on the ball and did a lot of the dirty work.

We allowed their cb’s to have the ball in areas it wasn’t going to hurt us, staying compact where it mattered.

Substitutions were well timed aswell and Gayle put the icing on the cake.

Phillips probably had his best game for us in a long while, looked real threatening coming through the middle.

Well done Big Dave, now lets go on a run and catch up some lost ground.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on November 11, 2018, 10:54:03 AM
Well done Darren
The choices you made before the game & during worked, that can only be seen has a good sign in you getting up to speed with the new job. Keep it up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on November 11, 2018, 11:01:06 AM
We have scored nearly twice as many goals than tp's boro, if we can sort out the defence long term we should be there or  thereabouts come the end of the season.

My only fear is that during this 2 break he does not persist with this back 3 in training and instead tries to improve the back of yesterday.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on November 11, 2018, 12:02:03 PM

Quite a lot seeing as some of us have been screaming out for that system for weeks on end.
granted folks have been screaming for a back four but it was the way he used a tight midfield 3 and a wide forward line which totally nullified Leeds attacking threat. Scratching my head to think of a better performance by an Albion team in years.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on November 11, 2018, 12:05:56 PM
Don't over do it.
He should have changed to this system weeks ago and we know it
mate have to give the man credit for that performance last night by his side, haven't had a buzz like that for a long time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on November 11, 2018, 12:28:03 PM
mate have to give the man credit for that performance last night by his side, haven't had a buzz like that for a long time.

Read my earlier post (8.39pm) I had already praised him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 11, 2018, 01:52:03 PM
All for giving him questions, but you would be naive to purely give credit and not raise questions as to why it has taken so long and only after such a groundswell of opinions from fans and pundits (Bomber especially) alike for him to make the obvious changes.

Said it before, we have the best or second best squad (second only potentially to Stoke) at this level so we should be far better than we have been this season. This will hopefully be the turning point.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on November 12, 2018, 08:03:31 AM
Well done Darren.
Please remember that you are the Head Coach, and YOU decide what goes, and your staff, whilst having input, carry out your instructions.
The whole world can see that our present group of players do not fit Mr Jones blueprint.
On Saturday you finally made the defensive change that as supporters , we had been begging for. You persevered with three at the back for far too long.
You could clearly see that not only the supporters, but the players themselves were much happier with the setup.
Please rein in Mr Jones. He has much more experience as a coach than you do, BUT YOU ARE ACCOUNTABLE.
Onward and upwards.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on November 12, 2018, 08:19:09 AM
It was great to see a performance on saturday where the defence looked comfortable. Frustrating not to get a clean sheet but that came down to our current frailty at winning aerial balls in the box. Over all, our defence handled everything well while sitting deeper than usual.

You can't use counter attack for every game, but the energy levels shown on saturday could be the difference in the long run.

Moore got his tactics spot, finally moving away from a stubborn 3512, to something that looked more solid. Laughed when I left and saw we only had twenty something % possession. This was a textbook example of how to look in control of a game without having possession of the ball.

Really pleased.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BigFrank20 on November 12, 2018, 08:41:37 AM
Don't over do it.
He should have changed to this system weeks ago and we know it
Agreed, up to a point, but it is also possible he's been waiting for enough of the right players to be fit enough to fit them into an 11 man system?
It's not just about the back 3 or 4 it also needs the right round pegs in the right round holes in front of the back line to make the whole system work
It's also clear Johnson has changed (instructed to change?) his distribution away from always looking to play it out from the back to also being prepared to punt it long to both wings as well as down the middle
Just a thought that it's not a clear cut black and white situation and not an argument
COYB
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on November 12, 2018, 09:05:09 AM
i don't believe we only had 28% of possession,  Leeds hardly touched the ball in the 1st fifteen minutes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on November 12, 2018, 09:10:52 AM
I didn't believe the possession stat either, but large parts of Leeds ball playing was along their back line and we allowed that to happen, we obviously pin pointed their centre backs as being weakest on the ball so allowed them to give it away.

I saw a stat yesterday that we have scored 28 goals in the second half of games this season. More than every team (apart from Leeds) have scored in the full 90.

That's incredible.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on November 12, 2018, 10:33:35 AM
Agreed, up to a point, but it is also possible he's been waiting for enough of the right players to be fit enough to fit them into an 11 man system?
It's not just about the back 3 or 4 it also needs the right round pegs in the right round holes in front of the back line to make the whole system work
It's also clear Johnson has changed (instructed to change?) his distribution away from always looking to play it out from the back to also being prepared to punt it long to both wings as well as down the middle
Just a thought that it's not a clear cut black and white situation and not an argument
COYB

Good points Frank, also tend to think that Neil Cutler going has had more of an influence than we think.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 12, 2018, 10:58:41 AM
It was great to see a performance on saturday where the defence looked comfortable. Frustrating not to get a clean sheet but that came down to our current frailty at winning aerial balls in the box. Over all, our defence handled everything well while sitting deeper than usual.

You can't use counter attack for every game, but the energy levels shown on saturday could be the difference in the long run.

Moore got his tactics spot, finally moving away from a stubborn 3512, to something that looked more solid. Laughed when I left and saw we only had twenty something % possession. This was a textbook example of how to look in control of a game without having possession of the ball.

Really pleased.

It was worse than I thought, we couldn't even win with 12 players! :D

You are absolutely right though about us controlling the game with minimal possession. Leeds huffed and puffed but never really threatened us, apart from maybe a chance before Roofe threw himself on the floor.

The goal we gave away was disappointing especially as you say we don't seem to win headers in our own box despite having 6'2" and 6'4" centre halfs in Dawson and Hegazi.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on November 12, 2018, 12:14:25 PM
Agreed, up to a point, but it is also possible he's been waiting for enough of the right players to be fit enough to fit them into an 11 man system?
It's not just about the back 3 or 4 it also needs the right round pegs in the right round holes in front of the back line to make the whole system work
It's also clear Johnson has changed (instructed to change?) his distribution away from always looking to play it out from the back to also being prepared to punt it long to both wings as well as down the middle
Just a thought that it's not a clear cut black and white situation and not an argument
COYB

I think it was a combination of things, including player availability.

There is no doubt that Darren Moore really wanted 3 at the back to work, and it did for a big chunk of the season at home in particular, with Barnes constantly ripping the opposition a new one every time we beat a press = Loadsagoals!  However, our goal scoring was compensating for just how vulnerable we looked at the back and once Gayle got injured and the goals dried up he had to change.

Mozza has been bought back gradually , but although at times his display was understated on Saturday due to the more direct style of play, he made a massive difference to the balance of the team.   Quick to turn on the ball, able to close down past the front three and fully aware of the space around him he just made us tick and for once Livermore was able to play as part of a balanced midfield team.  This solidity also allowed Phillips to get forward more and he had one of those days when he just looks a beast.

Regarding Johnstone, yep this looked to me like a tactical switch and he had been told to get rid up to the front three quickly often via the head of Phillips and Tosin who actually lost out once to the pipsqueak marking him but then won everything else.   However, this more direct route would not have worked withouth HRK and JRod having stoermers and this is where I do have to take off my hat to Darren Moore in the persistence with both.  We all had unhappy thoughts when we saw HRK on the team sheet and I thought JRod was done......but Darren Moore kept the faith and obviously saw they still had performances in them.







Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on November 12, 2018, 12:19:17 PM
Well it looks like the slump could be over. Now is the time to really push on and get some big points on the board. Before the end of the year we can make a big statement and hopefully hold onto players that can get us over the line.
To be fair Leeds were rubbish but I always thought the would implode. I don't think there is another side in this league that could stand up to us playing like we did, and as well as making them make mistakes, being able to capitalise on them. That has been a failing of ours for too long but we did ourselves proud on Saturday. Long may it continue.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on November 12, 2018, 03:57:23 PM
There was energy and impetus in that performance on Saturday I did not believe were capable of and MP appeared to set the tone with his (often missing) workrate, maybe more noticeable in his more central position.

The south American football correspondent Tim vickery said bielsa's team start off like a rocket and would have won him many leagues if the season only consistex of 19 games as his sides cannot maintain the pressing game they play over a long period.

That along with the mad sessions he had the Leeds players in pre season will see them fade imo, that and not having an out and out 20 plus goal striker.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on November 12, 2018, 06:22:27 PM
Just looked at our fixtures and I think the next 5 will shape our season. If we can come through playing well I think DM will have everyone right on side heading towards the transfer window.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on November 14, 2018, 12:49:53 PM
Agreed, although if we come through those 5 fixtures unscathed there will be some that hold the purse strings thinking we don't need strengthening in the window. It's a difficult one to forecast because we would all like to be sure of a positive outcome when May arrives and we all have ideas of how we should get there. What we really need is some consistency and balance.
I still see us very much as a work in progress and we might have to be patient. If we only rebuild to go back up that could be a backward step as we actually need to build to stay up which could prove a bit more difficult.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on November 15, 2018, 02:24:32 PM
I think it was a combination of things, including player availability.

There is no doubt that Darren Moore really wanted 3 at the back to work, and it did for a big chunk of the season at home in particular, with Barnes constantly ripping the opposition a new one every time we beat a press = Loadsagoals!  However, our goal scoring was compensating for just how vulnerable we looked at the back and once Gayle got injured and the goals dried up he had to change.

Mozza has been bought back gradually , but although at times his display was understated on Saturday due to the more direct style of play, he made a massive difference to the balance of the team.   Quick to turn on the ball, able to close down past the front three and fully aware of the space around him he just made us tick and for once Livermore was able to play as part of a balanced midfield team.  This solidity also allowed Phillips to get forward more and he had one of those days when he just looks a beast.

Regarding Johnstone, yep this looked to me like a tactical switch and he had been told to get rid up to the front three quickly often via the head of Phillips and Tosin who actually lost out once to the pipsqueak marking him but then won everything else.   However, this more direct route would not have worked withouth HRK and JRod having stoermers and this is where I do have to take off my hat to Darren Moore in the persistence with both.  We all had unhappy thoughts when we saw HRK on the team sheet and I thought JRod was done......but Darren Moore kept the faith and obviously saw they still had performances in them.

I'm still unsure if playing 3 at the back was DM's preference, or more of a case that the failure to sign the RB he wanted over the summer led to him trying to shoe-horn the players into a system which did not use an out and out RB. Early in the season we played a flat back 4 against Forest with Tosin at RB, but he did not look comfortable playing there if I recall, which led to the switch to a back 3. It has been a similar situation with Brunt playing centrally. If the attempted Dack transfer had come off I imagine Brunt playing CM would not have transpired, but DM has been trying to find the best solution until January with Morrison not match fit. Both these situations also caused DM to delve into the unattached market by bringing in Mears and Sako as cover for these positions.

I know many on here have regularly expressed views similar to my post below, which I made on the 5th, but I'll re-post it here anyway:

The 'back three' aren't playing well because they are playing as a back three and are being tasked with keeping possession and playing it out from the back, while also not having a suitable CM coming to take the ball and taking the pressure of them.

Go 2 at the back (Dawson and Hegazi) with 3 in the midfield (any 3 from the plethora of options we have excluding Brunt), to 1. give the defence more protection and 2. give us more bodies in midfield so we can more readily get control of it possession wise more frequently; move Brunt to the left (or drop him all together); and allow the defenders to move the ball up the pitch more quickly and things will improve pretty rapidly. Changing to a more suitable system and style of play from what we have may just lead to Dawson seeming a bit less 'half-arsed' as well as if most of the fans can see the system is badly flawed then I'm sure many of the players can as well. It's the set-up and tactics that is beginning to kill the team, not the standard of the players.

I am confident that the squad of players we have is good enough to challenge for an automatic space, and with one or two (RB and CM, no more) key signings in January there should be no excuses for not being able to finish in 1 of those two spots.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on November 16, 2018, 06:29:26 AM
I still think people are under estimating the work Darren has done with this group of players to move from the regimented structures of Pulisball to something more fluid that is capable of scoring goals from open play.

It is not just tactics and team shape that is the easy bit. Getting the players to buy into a wholly different approach and take responsibility for it and the risks that come with it is a lot harder. Moore has done something no coach has even attempted to do in ages with the possible exception of Pepe Mel which is push the players outside their comfort zone.

Having gone to a 3-4-1-2 Moore couldn't abandon it as soon as we hit the first bump in the road because the players are looking for easy and safe options and it was critical if Moore wanted to change that the players saw that he was serious about the changes he was implementing. 

In any event while we were getting results he could work on the issues that were fairly obvious but following the Derby game and more importantly the reaction in the following two games he had to acknowledge that maybe he was being over ambitious.

However the performance against Leeds was still more fluent than this team would otherwise have delivered under Pulis. It wasn't hit and hope and particularly when we got ahead there were passages of play which required the players to risks in possession.

Moore has genuinely changed the way the team plays whether 3-4-1-2 ever sees the light of day again is debatable but the lessons learnt from it are very much part of the process of building a different style of play.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on November 16, 2018, 08:24:18 AM
I still think people are under estimating the work Darren has done with this group of players to move from the regimented structures of Pulisball to something more fluid that is capable of scoring goals from open play.

It is not just tactics and team shape that is the easy bit. Getting the players to buy into a wholly different approach and take responsibility for it and the risks that come with it is a lot harder. Moore has done something no coach has even attempted to do in ages with the possible exception of Pepe Mel which is push the players outside their comfort zone.

Having gone to a 3-4-1-2 Moore couldn't abandon it as soon as we hit the first bump in the road because the players are looking for easy and safe options and it was critical if Moore wanted to change that the players saw that he was serious about the changes he was implementing. 

In any event while we were getting results he could work on the issues that were fairly obvious but following the Derby game and more importantly the reaction in the following two games he had to acknowledge that maybe he was being over ambitious.

However the performance against Leeds was still more fluent than this team would otherwise have delivered under Pulis. It wasn't hit and hope and particularly when we got ahead there were passages of play which required the players to risks in possession.

Moore has genuinely changed the way the team plays whether 3-4-1-2 ever sees the light of day again is debatable but the lessons learnt from it are very much part of the process of building a different style of play.   
Great post mate. I think it's worthwhile adding that both Pulis and Pardew's inability to change from a failing system cost them their jobs. The fact that Moore has, by going 4 at the back, practically admitted the 352 experiment hasn't worked, is further testament to his character and evidence that he may just have a bit more about him than some credit him for.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on November 16, 2018, 10:30:44 AM
Darren said at the start of the season it would be horses for courses, implying he would be flexible, he has also been loyal to the senior players (too much?? will be a point we can debate ad infinitum).

However Bartleys suspension and Brunts injury / form have meant loyalty ended and flexibility had to be used. The great performance that this resulted in was a joy when a lot of us were starting to doubt Darrens ability, yes it could be argued that circumstances caused the changes in personnel, but it was Darren that changed the system, so fair play to him.

I hope we start with an unchanged team / formation or at the very most bring in Gayle for either of HRK or JRod, to do any more than that would be de-motivating IMO.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on November 16, 2018, 05:04:35 PM
I still think people are under estimating the work Darren has done with this group of players to move from the regimented structures of Pulisball to something more fluid that is capable of scoring goals from open play.

It is not just tactics and team shape that is the easy bit. Getting the players to buy into a wholly different approach and take responsibility for it and the risks that come with it is a lot harder. Moore has done something no coach has even attempted to do in ages with the possible exception of Pepe Mel which is push the players outside their comfort zone.

Having gone to a 3-4-1-2 Moore couldn't abandon it as soon as we hit the first bump in the road because the players are looking for easy and safe options and it was critical if Moore wanted to change that the players saw that he was serious about the changes he was implementing. 

In any event while we were getting results he could work on the issues that were fairly obvious but following the Derby game and more importantly the reaction in the following two games he had to acknowledge that maybe he was being over ambitious.

However the performance against Leeds was still more fluent than this team would otherwise have delivered under Pulis. It wasn't hit and hope and particularly when we got ahead there were passages of play which required the players to risks in possession.

Moore has genuinely changed the way the team plays whether 3-4-1-2 ever sees the light of day again is debatable but the lessons learnt from it are very much part of the process of building a different style of play.   

Yep well said. Moore is trying to turn around a defensive juganaut whilst still moving. If he achieves a change in style with more fluidity whilst being defensively stronger it coukd mean a top four place which I think would be a great achievement. A top two place should see him talked about like Megson or Mowbray because make no mistake we were in utter turmoil a few months ago.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on November 16, 2018, 08:11:41 PM
The jury is still out on Moore i believe.

The unavailabilty of Bartley and Brunt forced his hand v Leeds and we had a much more mobile / fluid team.  We should be one of the leading lights in this division.  I don't understand the horses for courses statement, we should be imposing our will on teams not the other way around.

Do we teally want to back to a slow dsyfunctional midfield which resulted in recent disjointed performances.  Theres a lot to be said for finding your best 11 and standing by it.  Yes there will be 15min cameos by the support cast but poor performances should not be tolerated.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on November 16, 2018, 08:36:11 PM
The jury is still out on Moore i believe.

The unavailabilty of Bartley and Brunt forced his hand v Leeds and we had a much more mobile / fluid team.  We should be one of the leading lights in this division.  I don't understand the horses for courses statement, we should be imposing our will on teams not the other way around.

Do we teally want to back to a slow dsyfunctional midfield which resulted in recent disjointed performances.  Theres a lot to be said for finding your best 11 and standing by it.  Yes there will be 15min cameos by the support cast but poor performances should not be tolerated.


I'm with you. The "horses for courses" thing is slightly concerning. Yes, for sure, at times we will need to tinker with things during a game to cope with different situations but any good team should do that that should be a given. I hope that's what Darren means by "horses for courses", or maybe it's a polite and diplomatic way of deflecting the fact that he changed the system against the primary wishes of Graeme Jones. What I hope "horses for courses" doesn't mean is that he is going to keep chopping and changing the system, I don't want to see that at all.

We've found the system that suits us now in the 4-3-3, the Leeds performance was better than any of the sixteen or so games that we've played another way. We've found our default system now I expect us to stick with it. Not only does it suit the players we have but it's also advantageous in the modern game and that system should enable us to deal with almost anything the opposition do.

You can vary the way you play the 4-3-3, you can pull the wide men inside and slightly deeper for certain situations which then becomes more a 4-3-2-1. You can also play with a direct "number 9" than looks to run in behind rather than the J Rod type who will drop in and receive the ball to feet facing goal, almost like a false number 9 at times. Instead of using Robson-Kanu wide who you can hit directly, you can employ another option either a Gayle type who will need the ball played along the ground or a Burke type with blistering pace that you can use in behind. You can even play two through the middle and give the third forward a freer role. In the middle of the park you can do away with the attacking component (Phillips vs Leeds) and use a more pragmatic option (Barry, Harper, Field depending on how you play him) if you feel the need. At the back you can alter you full backs. You can use a more pragmatic left back rather than the marauding Gibbs or a more attacking option rather than the stay back option of Adarabioyo (not that we're blessed with other options).

All of the above are options in a 4-3-3 but what stays the same is the 4-3, the shape of the defence and midfield. This gives you stability and a strong platform every game and should result in a more consistent level of performance and a far better defensive record even when coping with the loss of first choice personnel.

In short, I don't want to see us deviate from the 4-3. Every good team has a default system and a way of playing that the players are a) comfortable with and b) familiar with. If we keep changing things we will lose that familiarity and consistency.

Jury is out on Darren Moore for me but the jury would be out with anyone they are judged on what they do at the time and how we are progressing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on November 18, 2018, 01:08:23 PM
The "Horses for Courses" comment can be taken any number of ways. I doubt whether there is a split in the Moore/Jones relationship it goes way back and is based on genuine mutual respect they are on the same page when it comes to coaching philosophy.

The 4-3-3 isn't so far removed from the 3-3-1-2. In possession Gibbs gets into far more advanced positions than Adarabioyo so at some points we are playing with 3 Centre Backs. Equally Leeds are a unique challenge in that they are probably the only team in the Division whose default style is the high press. Some teams have adopted the style specifically against us e.g. Derby and Bristol one worked well the other didn't.

 The key difference was not the shape of the team but the fact that they we didn't dwell on the ball at the back specifically to counter Leeds high press. The same style might not work against a deep sitting team trying to chisel out a point because they will get numbers back behind the ball in a deep sitting block. At this point we need to move the ball around to work positions. I suspect the first test of this is Ipswich next Friday. 

The games come thick and fast through Christmas we won't get through the programme without being forced to rotate out some players. Team selection will be a juggling act but on the back of the International break it will be interesting to see if Darren keeps the team that beat Leeds.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on November 18, 2018, 02:00:30 PM
The "Horses for Courses" comment can be taken any number of ways. I doubt whether there is a split in the Moore/Jones relationship it goes way back and is based on genuine mutual respect they are on the same page when it comes to coaching philosophy.

The 4-3-3 isn't so far removed from the 3-3-1-2. In possession Gibbs gets into far more advanced positions than Adarabioyo so at some points we are playing with 3 Centre Backs. Equally Leeds are a unique challenge in that they are probably the only team in the Division whose default style is the high press. Some teams have adopted the style specifically against us e.g. Derby and Bristol one worked well the other didn't.

 The key difference was not the shape of the team but the fact that they we didn't dwell on the ball at the back specifically to counter Leeds high press. The same style might not work against a deep sitting team trying to chisel out a point because they will get numbers back behind the ball in a deep sitting block. At this point we need to move the ball around to work positions. I suspect the first test of this is Ipswich next Friday. 

The games come thick and fast through Christmas we won't get through the programme without being forced to rotate out some players. Team selection will be a juggling act but on the back of the International break it will be interesting to see if Darren keeps the team that beat Leeds.



I think formations are overrated.  The number one factor for determining how successful a team is the overall quality of the players.  And as we have arguably close to the best set of players this division has to offer than we should be targeting top 2 and nothing less.

The appalling losses to Wigan and Hull originated from a desperately slow midfield that was shut down from kick off.  The game was turned into a scrap and we were bullied into submission. 

As you alluded to the best way of combating inferior opposition is with quality possession and moving them around the pitch to tire them out.  That is why Moore has to get the midfield selection correct as number 1 priority.  As I see it, Morrison is just coming to the fore he has missed the first 3 months so in theory shouldn’t need a break.  Barnes has young legs and will always want to play.  Livermore is the one that should be under threat, but he does have more energy than Brunt, Barry and Hoolahan.

Not getting promoted will probably cost this club about £80m next season alone.  Moore needs to pull out all the stops and that means picking the best players.  Horses for courses maybe at Xmas when the games are thick and fast?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on November 18, 2018, 04:05:53 PM
You can afford one "back row forward" player like Livermore to do the slogging as long as the other midfielders can be more procative and mobile.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on November 19, 2018, 09:38:33 AM
The "Horses for Courses" comment can be taken any number of ways. I doubt whether there is a split in the Moore/Jones relationship it goes way back and is based on genuine mutual respect they are on the same page when it comes to coaching philosophy.

The 4-3-3 isn't so far removed from the 3-3-1-2. In possession Gibbs gets into far more advanced positions than Adarabioyo so at some points we are playing with 3 Centre Backs. Equally Leeds are a unique challenge in that they are probably the only team in the Division whose default style is the high press. Some teams have adopted the style specifically against us e.g. Derby and Bristol one worked well the other didn't.

The key difference was not the shape of the team but the fact that they we didn't dwell on the ball at the back specifically to counter Leeds high press. The same style might not work against a deep sitting team trying to chisel out a point because they will get numbers back behind the ball in a deep sitting block. At this point we need to move the ball around to work positions. I suspect the first test of this is Ipswich next Friday. 

The games come thick and fast through Christmas we won't get through the programme without being forced to rotate out some players. Team selection will be a juggling act but on the back of the International break it will be interesting to see if Darren keeps the team that beat Leeds.


Can't agree with this at all. I think the shape was the critical difference. The 3 in midfield transformed us into a different team. You state that we didn't dwell on the ball at the back but the last few games have seen us do less of that anyway. I haven't seen a couple of the away games but the homes I have and I noticed this change before the Leeds game.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on November 21, 2018, 01:23:49 PM
Just seen this on the Express and Stir, and got really annoyed...

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/11/21/darren-moore-reveals-75-game-golden-rule-for-youngsters/

They aren't going to get to 75 games unless you give them 1 to 74.

I thought Dave would be better for the kids than this. As it is the only two consistently in the team aren't even ours. Edwards played against Reading and looked decent, hasn't been seen since. Field looks to have been hung out to dry because he came in for the games where Moore's formation and tactics were completely caught out. And Harper, Leko, and Burke have yet to see any real league football.

We've got another dinosaur; experience is king. But James McClean has played more games than Harvey Barnes, doesn't make him a better player.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on November 21, 2018, 01:57:47 PM
Just seen this on the Express and Stir, and got really annoyed...

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/11/21/darren-moore-reveals-75-game-golden-rule-for-youngsters/

They aren't going to get to 75 games unless you give them 1 to 74.

I thought Dave would be better for the kids than this. As it is the only two consistently in the team aren't even ours. Edwards played against Reading and looked decent, hasn't been seen since. Field looks to have been hung out to dry because he came in for the games where Moore's formation and tactics were completely caught out. And Harper, Leko, and Burke have yet to see any real league football.

We've got another dinosaur; experience is king. But James McClean has played more games than Harvey Barnes, doesn't make him a better player.
Barnes is playing though so i don't think he's saying you can't get in the team until you have 75 apps, rather that you will still be a bit of an unknown quantity.
If you look at it differently, you could interpret it as, if you are good enough, you'll play, if you're not, you probably won't ,but that doesn't mean you never will as, as your experience builds, so will your ability and identity.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiebof on November 21, 2018, 02:05:24 PM
Barnes is playing though so i don't think he's saying you can't get in the team until you have 75 apps, rather that you will still be a bit of an unknown quantity.

Exactly this, not quite sure why people have viewed it differently and jumped on Moore's back.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on November 21, 2018, 02:17:24 PM
Just seen this on the Express and Stir, and got really annoyed...

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/11/21/darren-moore-reveals-75-game-golden-rule-for-youngsters/

They aren't going to get to 75 games unless you give them 1 to 74

I thought Dave would be better for the kids than this. As it is the only two consistently in the team aren't even ours. Edwards played against Reading and looked decent, hasn't been seen since. Field looks to have been hung out to dry because he came in for the games where Moore's formation and tactics were completely caught out. And Harper, Leko, and Burke have yet to see any real league football.

We've got another dinosaur; experience is king. But James McClean has played more games than Harvey Barnes, doesn't make him a better player.
you haven’t actually read what he said, have you?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on November 21, 2018, 04:01:40 PM
Just seen this on the Express and Stir, and got really annoyed...

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/11/21/darren-moore-reveals-75-game-golden-rule-for-youngsters/

They aren't going to get to 75 games unless you give them 1 to 74

I thought Dave would be better for the kids than this. As it is the only two consistently in the team aren't even ours. Edwards played against Reading and looked decent, hasn't been seen since. Field looks to have been hung out to dry because he came in for the games where Moore's formation and tactics were completely caught out. And Harper, Leko, and Burke have yet to see any real league football.

We've got another dinosaur; experience is king. But James McClean has played more games than Harvey Barnes, doesn't make him a better player.
It may have escaped your notice, but Leicester are using us to gauge Barnes’ potential before making a decision on him. The only way our youngsters are going to get sufficient games under their belts, is us doing the same thing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: CL3MO on November 21, 2018, 07:02:41 PM
The real disappointing thing for me is that he isn’t loaning these young players out. This is the third season with Leko and Field where the fans have asked this question. If they’re not playing, their progress is being severely stalled.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tlms-p23 on November 21, 2018, 08:45:37 PM
The real disappointing thing for me is that he isn’t loaning these young players out. This is the third season with Leko and Field where the fans have asked this question. If they’re not playing, their progress is being severely stalled.

Second this. There comes a point where potential starts to dwindle and you just don't become the player you could have been - can't be a prospect forever. It's no way to manage your youngsters and it just feels like a waste. It's crazy that Sam Field hasn't been on loan and has only played 29 games for us - almost all off the bench.

Hopefully Field and Leko can go out on loan in January and get 20 games on the spin until the end of the season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on November 21, 2018, 09:57:04 PM
Exactly this, not quite sure why people have viewed it differently and jumped on Moore's back.
Because it's easy, because people spend £49 on FIFA and become experts , because some don't actually understand the game .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on November 22, 2018, 01:03:11 PM
I think some need to refer to the forum rules again

Instant 7 day ban for any member abusing players on the forum. We do not want posts where players or any officials are called wa**er, pricks etc. This forum is better than that.

Criticism is fine, abuse is not.


http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=48.0
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on November 22, 2018, 08:27:11 PM
you haven’t actually read what he said, have you?

I have read what he's said, but I don't think people have understood what he's said.

Quote
I’ve got a golden rule in my head with any youngster. Until you’ve played 75 games, you then become a product, we then know what we’re getting. Until he’s played 75 games, you don’t know what you’re getting. It’s a demanding industry to be in at every level. If you’re going to become a product, you’ll have to play 75 games.

This is the justification that managers in England have been using for 10 to 15 years, if not longer, for not giving chances to academy products. 'We don't know what we're going to get from them' is basically 'they could make a mistake while they're learning, and we can't afford that. So it's better that Gareth Barry gets a start because we know what he can do, and won't get any mistakes'. It's why we've ended up with players going out on loan at all levels of the game - we don't know what they're capable of, but we don't want to run the risk of finding out they're not good enough, so let them be somebody else's problem, and we'll have them back if they're good enough.

Quote
We’ve got wonderful young talented players within our club. Nobody has a crystal ball in terms of how they’re going to develop.

I'll praise them so they don't get downhearted, and then make a comment that hints that if they turn out to be really good, it's because they've stepped up, not because I won't give them a chance.

Those are the direct quotes from the article, and how they should be interpreted. It's the same old story at every club; we can't give the youngsters a chance because they may make mistakes, they need time to learn, and the manager is under pressure to get results here and now - not just from the board, but from the fans too. How short tempered have the Hawthorns been at times already this season? The crowd was already getting restless with Field against Derby, because he kept playing it backwards and sideways - often because there was nothing on ahead of him, so he was being careful and making sure we at least retained possession.

Basically if we want these lads to get to his magical 75 game mark, they're going to have to prove themselves somewhere else - either on loan, or being let go and then bought back.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on November 22, 2018, 08:30:53 PM
Because it's easy, because people spend £49 on FIFA and become experts , because some don't actually understand the game .

Not that anybody here should have to defend their viewpoint, but I've been a season ticket holder for over 20 years now. Granted that's not as long as some, but it's a period in which we've seen a lot, from different divisions, managers, owners, and chairmen, to a change in the face of modern football.

Just because you don't agree with somebody does not mean they learned everything off a FIFA game. That's a pretty poor assumption in my honest opinion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on November 22, 2018, 08:33:29 PM
The youngsters may make mistakes thing is something that irks me a bit. Tell me a footballer who doesn't make mistakes.

Jay Rodriguez should be dropped after his back pass against Derby then surely? Had Edwards or Leko been on the pitch and done what JRod did would there have been a different reaction?

Sorry to pick on JRod because there's not one of our players that hasn't made mistakes in almost every game this season, his was just the most glaring and relatively recent in memory. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on November 22, 2018, 08:48:42 PM
The youngsters may make mistakes thing is something that irks me a bit. Tell me a footballer who doesn't make mistakes.

Jay Rodriguez should be dropped after his back pass against Derby then surely? Had Edwards or Leko been on the pitch and done what JRod did would there have been a different reaction?

Sorry to pick on JRod because there's not one of our players that hasn't made mistakes in almost every game this season, his was just the most glaring and relatively recent in memory.

See this is part of my argument too. Over the last couple of years, we've seen some very experienced players make some very glaring mistakes - and I'm talking about on the field, not the 'steal a taxi' kind, for a change. At least the younger lads have the potential to see what they did wrong and learn from it; what's Hegazi really going to learn from taking five minutes to pass it directly out of play? (That was against Blues, for those wondering).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on November 22, 2018, 09:11:33 PM
It could be argued that experienced players are making mistakes on a regular basis in some cases and yet still keep their places despite obviously not learning from them. A youngster will make a mistake 100% guaranteed but hopefully they would learn from it.

If they are good enough they are old enough, 75 games should not be needed to find out
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on November 22, 2018, 09:25:37 PM
Not that anybody here should have to defend their viewpoint, but I've been a season ticket holder for over 20 years now. Granted that's not as long as some, but it's a period in which we've seen a lot, from different divisions, managers, owners, and chairmen, to a change in the face of modern football.

Just because you don't agree with somebody does not mean they learned everything off a FIFA game. That's a pretty poor assumption in my honest opinion.
Wasn't aimed at any individual, point being there are many reasons why people start jumping up and down
I think my suggestions are also valid
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on November 22, 2018, 09:50:14 PM
Nowhere has he said they need 75 games to be considered for match time at Albion, which is how nearly everyone who's commented on this thread about these comments has interpreted it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on November 23, 2018, 08:53:29 AM
Nowhere has he said they need 75 games to be considered for match time at Albion, which is how nearly everyone who's commented on this thread about these comments has interpreted it.

Managers - even relative novices such as Moore - use the press to communicate messages to both the players and the fans, which may not be exactly the words they use. We've seen this and we know this.

He's not saying they won't be considered for selection - that would simply dishearten them and they wouldn't work as hard. No, the message he's putting across is that because of their inexperience, they will always be behind the older players in terms of team selection, and both the young players and the fans need to understand that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on November 23, 2018, 10:48:57 AM
Managers - even relative novices such as Moore - use the press to communicate messages to both the players and the fans, which may not be exactly the words they use. We've seen this and we know this.

He's not saying they won't be considered for selection - that would simply dishearten them and they wouldn't work as hard. No, the message he's putting across is that because of their inexperience, they will always be behind the older players in terms of team selection, and both the young players and the fans need to understand that.
or the curtains are blue...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 23, 2018, 04:27:07 PM
Managers - even relative novices such as Moore - use the press to communicate messages to both the players and the fans, which may not be exactly the words they use. We've seen this and we know this.

He's not saying they won't be considered for selection - that would simply dishearten them and they wouldn't work as hard. No, the message he's putting across is that because of their inexperience, they will always be behind the older players in terms of team selection, and both the young players and the fans need to understand that.

For all we know the comments were aimed at players who have refused to go on loan. We don’t really know.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on November 23, 2018, 09:25:28 PM
Deserves huge credit for the past 2 games
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 23, 2018, 09:51:41 PM
Well done Darren. Maybe those who have slated him should now at the very least acknowledge that he has learned and adapted.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: CL3MO on November 23, 2018, 09:53:16 PM
Made the simple decision to keep it the same as Leeds and got the much deserved win tonight.

At the end of the day, with the squad we have, we should be at least where we are in the league but over the last two games, he's finally got the squad playing to their strengths.

I must say though, playing Phillips on the right of the centre three has been a fantastic decision though. Keep it up Darren!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on November 23, 2018, 10:01:11 PM
Considering the flack he has got after that winless run and even throughout the start when goals galore papered over cracks. He has changed his system and he's got back to back wins.

Well done Big Man and coyb
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on November 24, 2018, 09:35:13 AM
Darren Moore deserves huge credit. Head coaches are stubborn, they don't change their minds as a rule but Darren did against Leeds and he's not backed away from the issue against Ipswich he picked the same again. We are all quick to criticise (and rightly at times) but lets be quick enough to heap praise when it's merited as well. Leeds was our best performance of the season and Ipswich was our best away performance of the season, all is grand at the moment. At this present moment in time he gets 10/10 for his management.

Graeme Jones stated that Leeds was a one off. I don't know what he meant by that but clearly either he didn't mean the system or Darren Moore has contradicted him. I don't know which but I don't care. What id does show is the words don't mean a thing it's actions that count and to be fair that's always been the case.

There are no youngsters from our academy making any impact. This I was critical of Darren for at the start of the season as this should've been the breakthrough season for Sam Field and to be overlooked in favour of Chris Brunt was wrong for me. However, judging by the fact that Rekeem Harper is getting the nod on the bench with us playing 4-3-3 it seems Darren doesn't see a place for Sam in that system at all, preferring the physicality of Harper instead, which I can understand. Field's progress has clearly stalled and you now have to seriously question his future at the club. None of other youngsters to be fair to Darren should be getting first team action although I would like to see Oliver Burke on the bench. His pace one on one with a full back may turn out to be one hell of a weapon.

Overall, excellent stuff from Darren Moore. Keep it up big man.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on November 24, 2018, 09:59:26 AM
The three of Morrison, Livermore and Phillips seems to be working very well indeed.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiebof on November 24, 2018, 10:01:08 AM
Graeme Jones stated that Leeds was a one off. I don't know what he meant by that but clearly either he didn't mean the system or Darren Moore has contradicted him.

I think too much has been made of Jones' comments. I think he was referring to the game plan of sitting back, soaking up possession and then hitting on the counter. Even though the formation was the same last night, we applied it very differently as we pressed high and gave both Phillips and Morrison the scope to join the attack.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on November 24, 2018, 07:40:04 PM
Regarding post above Harper over field. Think because Harper has the ability to come in and replace Phillips and Livermore as he is a lot better at getting about the field. Field is competiting with Barry and Morrison for the other spot.

Field really needs a loan deal come January along with Edwards and or leko (depends whether we keep hoolahan)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on November 28, 2018, 09:57:39 PM
3 wins out of 3

Well done Darren
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on November 28, 2018, 10:00:39 PM
Fantastic run. If we can make it 5 on the bounce that would be a fantastic lead up to Christmas.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 28, 2018, 10:03:00 PM
Brilliant response to all the nonsense said about him. A poor run answered by three successive wins. He’s answered his critics.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on November 28, 2018, 10:04:57 PM
Brilliant response to all the nonsense said about him. A poor run answered by three successive wins. He’s answered his critics.

Not all was nonsense, as is the usual case both sides have some who go ott one way or the other, not just one.

Hopefully he has realised what works and what doesn't
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on November 28, 2018, 10:06:33 PM
The main thing is that Moore has changed it up a bit in recent weeks and shown he can use different styles and even win ugly if needed. I hope he continues to improve.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 28, 2018, 10:10:07 PM
Not all was nonsense, as is the usual case both sides have some who go ott one way or the other, not just one.

Hopefully he has realised what works and what doesn't

He should have been given more time and understanding. Too many had written him off. Who knows how good or bad he will be, but we should at least support him while he learns the ropes while turning us around from the post Pulis nightmare. I think that so far he has done a great job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on November 28, 2018, 10:32:05 PM
He should have been given more time and understanding. Too many had written him off. Who knows how good or bad he will be, but we should at least support him while he learns the ropes while turning us around from the post Pulis nightmare. I think that so far he has done a great job.

And too many were praising him over the top after a win, middle ground is needed. Long long way to go
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on November 28, 2018, 10:42:59 PM
And too many were praising him over the top after a win, middle ground is needed. Long long way to go
I agree, he definitely deserved criticism when he was on his bad run, as he also deserves praise right now.

That's management I suppose, you live and die by your decisions.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 28, 2018, 11:07:34 PM
Brilliant response to all the nonsense said about him. A poor run answered by three successive wins. He’s answered his critics.

Nonsense? It’s only him finally bowing to fan and media pressure and going to 4 at the back that has turned it around for him, he persisted with the 5 at the back ‘nonsense’ for far too long despite it being clear it wasn’t working
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on November 28, 2018, 11:36:27 PM
Nonsense? It’s only him finally bowing to fan and media pressure and going to 4 at the back that has turned it around for him, he persisted with the 5 at the back ‘nonsense’ for far too long despite it being clear it wasn’t working

No manager worth their salt pays any attention to the collective wisdom of the fan base and nor did Darren. Yes all Head Coaches play to the gallery to a lesser or greater degree but ultimately the last source of advice they draw upon are the fans or even less so the massed ranks of pundits and scribblers.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on November 29, 2018, 04:12:42 AM
Nonsense? It’s only him finally bowing to fan and media pressure and going to 4 at the back that has turned it around for him, he persisted with the 5 at the back ‘nonsense’ for far too long despite it being clear it wasn’t working

amazing :) If he bowed to fan pressure then HRK would never have played again for the Albion, Dawson would not have played again (after the summer). We wouldn't have signed Harvey Barnes (why sign a Leicester kid when we can develop our own were a lot of the comments). If you read the media it was Moore who wanted 4 at the back changed things even though jones wanted to keep the other system. But you can keep telling yourself Moore can't make his own decisions and does what the fans say if you like...


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on November 29, 2018, 06:24:18 AM
Darren Moore deserves huge credit. Head coaches are stubborn, they don't change their minds as a rule but Darren did against Leeds and he's not backed away from the issue against Ipswich he picked the same again. We are all quick to criticise (and rightly at times) but lets be quick enough to heap praise when it's merited as well. Leeds was our best performance of the season and Ipswich was our best away performance of the season, all is grand at the moment. At this present moment in time he gets 10/10 for his management.

Graeme Jones stated that Leeds was a one off. I don't know what he meant by that but clearly either he didn't mean the system or Darren Moore has contradicted him. I don't know which but I don't care. What id does show is the words don't mean a thing it's actions that count and to be fair that's always been the case.

There are no youngsters from our academy making any impact. This I was critical of Darren for at the start of the season as this should've been the breakthrough season for Sam Field and to be overlooked in favour of Chris Brunt was wrong for me. However, judging by the fact that Rekeem Harper is getting the nod on the bench with us playing 4-3-3 it seems Darren doesn't see a place for Sam in that system at all, preferring the physicality of Harper instead, which I can understand. Field's progress has clearly stalled and you now have to seriously question his future at the club. None of other youngsters to be fair to Darren should be getting first team action although I would like to see Oliver Burke on the bench. His pace one on one with a full back may turn out to be one hell of a weapon.

Overall, excellent stuff from Darren Moore. Keep it up big man.

Or maybe that was all stage managed to trick Ipswich. I did question how seriously we should take any comments about formation made at fans forums or through the media as giving away your tactics is suicide.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on November 29, 2018, 09:51:29 AM
Nonsense? It’s only him finally bowing to fan and media pressure and going to 4 at the back that has turned it around for him, he persisted with the 5 at the back ‘nonsense’ for far too long despite it being clear it wasn’t working

The 5 at the back nonsense gave us some fantastic attacking football (I'm only a home ST holder admittedly, so don't see the away games in that detail) and a tremendous start to the season as we were shaky at the back but outscoring teams by some margin (highest scorers in any league at one point?).  It's very much the ying and yang...it's no coincidence that Harvey Barnes has been slightly less effective in this system, or that Dwight Gayle can be left on the bench as these are the players in the squad that really DID suit playing in a 3-5-2 and that's why we might see it again as at our best, once we were beating the first press, they were lethal running into open space.  Once teams worked us out it became obvious that the players did not have the abilities required to continue playing the formation with teams pressing higher and in greater numbers and it was changed.  I think we had three really poor games before the change was made?  In football management terms that's a pretty quick reaction compared to some who've been in charge.

If you saw the Swansea v Norwich highlights you will see that Potter is going through the same problem now at Swansea  - Norwich pressed really high and tore them apart -  although the expectation seems to be much lower there.

   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 29, 2018, 10:01:12 AM
The 5 at the back nonsense gave us some fantastic attacking football (I'm only a home ST holder admittedly, so don't see the away games in that detail) and a tremendous start to the season as we were shaky at the back but outscoring teams by some margin (highest scorers in any league at one point?).  It's very much the ying and yang...it's no coincidence that Harvey Barnes has been slightly less effective in this system, or that Dwight Gayle can be left on the bench as these are the players in the squad that really DID suit playing in a 3-5-2 and that's why we might see it again as at our best, once we were beating the first press, they were lethal running into open space.  Once teams worked us out it became obvious that the players did not have the abilities required to continue playing the formation with teams pressing higher and in greater numbers and it was changed.  I think we had three really poor games before the change was made?  In football management terms that's a pretty quick reaction compared to some who've been in charge.

If you saw the Swansea v Norwich highlights you will see that Potter is going through the same problem now at Swansea  - Norwich pressed really high and tore them apart -  although the expectation seems to be much lower there.

 

Swansea have a poor squad devoid of any quality, we have either the best or second best squad in the league and our performances prior to the Leeds game were absolutely horrendous. Three really poor games? Not sure what you were watching, but we were awful in nigh on every game this season prior to the switch and it was abundantly clear that against a team with any quality, we would get picked apart, we just happened to be fortunate that we have some supremely talented forward players at this level.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on November 29, 2018, 01:07:13 PM
Swansea have a poor squad devoid of any quality, we have either the best or second best squad in the league and our performances prior to the Leeds game were absolutely horrendous. Three really poor games? Not sure what you were watching, but we were awful in nigh on every game this season prior to the switch and it was abundantly clear that against a team with any quality, we would get picked apart, we just happened to be fortunate that we have some supremely talented forward players at this level.

Jefferson Montero / Wilfeid Bony (who many wanted at B71)/ Martin Ollson (could have been at B71) / Leroy Fer (kept Mulumbu on bench at Norwich) / Tom carroll / Kyle Naughton  - If thats a poor squad devoid of quality, I'm a chinaman !

I normally agree with most of your contributions, but this one? - Nah!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 29, 2018, 01:12:17 PM
Swansea
25Mulder
17Carter-Vickers
5van der Hoorn
22Rodon
23Roberts
8Fer
21Grimes
3Olsson
10Celina
9McBurnie
20James

Honestly, that side, is awful.

Bony was done as a top level footballer 3 years ago.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on November 29, 2018, 01:15:45 PM
Swansea
25Mulder
17Carter-Vickers
5van der Hoorn
22Rodon
23Roberts
8Fer
21Grimes
3Olsson
10Celina
9McBurnie
20James

Honestly, that side, is awful.

Bony was done as a top level footballer 3 years ago.

Being a pedant you started with a "squad" now you're talking about the "side" Potter picked.

Agree about Bony by the way, I was one of the people saying he was a busted flush (a la Lambert) 2/3 seasons ago.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on November 29, 2018, 01:32:34 PM
Swansea have a poor squad devoid of any quality, we have either the best or second best squad in the league and our performances prior to the Leeds game were absolutely horrendous. Three really poor games? Not sure what you were watching, but we were awful in nigh on every game this season prior to the switch and it was abundantly clear that against a team with any quality, we would get picked apart, we just happened to be fortunate that we have some supremely talented forward players at this level.

Guess its all about perspective as to what awful actually is, but for the majority of this season I have been absolutely loving my days back down at the Hawthorns and seeing us try and implement the attaching 3-5-2.  It's been exhilarating at times and really got the blood pumping!!  My twelve year old has also been having a ball.  Yes we were incredibly shaky at the back (don't think I will every forget the sight of Hegazi doing a Cruyf turn on the edge of his own box) and lacking in midfield (which has been helped by the return of Mozza), and yes we rarely played consistently for 90 minutes but when it worked......

Awful to me immediately conjures up images of Gould, Buckley, Little and the Pardew and Pullis show last year when I just stopped caring until Darren Moore came along.  We may have been awful at times, but on the whole its been good fun to watch *

*at home.

Also saying that we just happened to be fortunate that we have some supremely talented forward players at this level seems a bit harsh.  We had obviously been tracking Barnes for a while and made the most of the opportunity that came along with Rafa wanting Rondon. Take away those two and our attack it made up of HRK and JRod which is hardly a wealth of goal scoring talent - so credit where credit etc.  If as a manger you find yourself with the aforesaid talented forwards then you will look for a formation to utilise their ability, which 3-5-2 undoubtedly did for those two (even if not for many others 😀)

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 29, 2018, 01:59:06 PM
Being a pedant you started with a "squad" now you're talking about the "side" Potter picked.

Agree about Bony by the way, I was one of the people saying he was a busted flush (a la Lambert) 2/3 seasons ago.

It's all good, I'm usually a massive pedant so I appreciate such things  ;D

I rate Gibbs higher than Olsson as a full back, Montero and Bony are in the same bracket as being spent as a force at the top level now, Naughton is a very limited full back in my eyes which is why no one came in for him. I am unsure about Fer, I did rate him back in the day, but he has hardly set the world alight at either QPR or Swansea. Carroll is a player I do rate in fairness, but he is about the only member of their squad I would want.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on November 29, 2018, 03:02:32 PM
Still really happy with the job Mooro is doing and  chuffed that he made the changes he did to halt the slide, albeit a bit later than I would have liked. Many managers would have stubbornly blundered on with the same formation, hoping for a bit of luck, but Darren took positive action and it paid off with 3 wins on the bounce. Another tick for me.
To say that he only acted due to fan and media pressure is ludicrous. It's not as if the fans are on his back (not on match days anyway) and I've not seen anything in the press questioning the 352.
Ok, we haven't played well in a lot of games but we're still 4th and rising.
Keep up the good work Darren  (Although maybe make your subs a bit sooner) ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on December 03, 2018, 10:14:59 PM
Still have my doubts about him, disappointed that he hasn't given youngsters a chance, game management is awful and in last two games lack of substitions is baffling
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on December 03, 2018, 10:21:56 PM
I have to question the lack of variety on the bench. Playing a team currently struggling and short of confidence we only had one genuine attacker (Gayle) on the bench, 4 midfielders and Mears. What's the point of 4 midfielders and Mears ?
If ever there was a game to give Leko or Edwards...or Burke 25 minutes to freshen it up it was this one.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on December 03, 2018, 10:35:29 PM
You have to question why Hoolahan, Brunt, Barry, Sako, Burke are still at the club?

Brunt - found wanting in CM and inferior to Morrison.  Has abour 10 starts under his belt.

The Other 4 - virtually no contribution all season.

Time to be ruthless in January.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on December 03, 2018, 10:42:37 PM
You have to question why Hoolahan, Brunt, Barry, Sako, Burke are still at the club?

Brunt - found wanting in CM and inferior to Morrison.  Has abour 10 starts under his belt.

The Other 4 - virtually no contribution all season.

Time to be ruthless in January.
some idiot gave them contracts
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tlms-p23 on December 03, 2018, 11:03:31 PM
@mattwilson_star

Asked Moore if he regretted not adding fresh legs at the end. "Not really," he said. "Because we were dominant in the game. When your back's against the wall you look to change it up. Because of the performance, I thought they were alright." Said he didn't see their goal coming.


Dave, mate, get real. The midfield were sh@gged after 80mins. Haven't used subs well in either of the last 2 games (haven't for much of the season). If Brunt and Barry are on the pitch for the final 10 mins I am convinced we win that game 1-0.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on December 03, 2018, 11:04:30 PM
@mattwilson_star

Asked Moore if he regretted not adding fresh legs at the end. "Not really," he said. "Because we were dominant in the game. When your back's against the wall you look to change it up. Because of the performance, I thought they were alright." Said he didn't see their goal coming.


Dave, mate, get real. The midfield were sh@gged after 80mins. Haven't used subs well in either of the last 2 games (haven't for much of the season). If Brunt and Barry are on the pitch for the final 10 mins I am convinced we win that game 1-0.

 :o

He has not got a clue. That is genuinely frightening.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: CL3MO on December 03, 2018, 11:13:43 PM
:o

He has not got a clue. That is genuinely frightening.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I’ve scanned the forum tonight and the number of people who said Morrison HAD to go off after we scored tells it’s oem story. Sometimes management is simple - every fan in the ground could see the change needed to happen.

Lessons needed to be learnt. Quickly.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on December 03, 2018, 11:16:11 PM
I think he should've rested Mozza either tonight or at Swansea and I think he should've changed things at 1-0 tonight.

Not going to murder the guy. Made a couple of errors here though I think.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on December 03, 2018, 11:25:51 PM
I think he should've rested Mozza either tonight or at Swansea and I think he should've changed things at 1-0 tonight.

Not going to murder the guy. Made a couple of errors here though I think.

How far with we go with these errors though? Persisting with 5 at the back for 15 games, persisting with Brunt in midfield, persisting with Bartley until injury made him unavailable selection, refusal to use his bench to impact the course of a game.

So, so many errors
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on December 03, 2018, 11:30:18 PM
Im a Darren Moore fan and the performance he got out of the team first 45 was outstanding we could have been six up.  We could even have scored two or three second half.   However, lets hope he watches the game again and asesses what he could have done different to close that game out.   We sat back and invited pressure from a team we had been bossing...we had less than ten minutes to defend and couldn't do it once they applied pressure.  Becomming a real achilles heal.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on December 03, 2018, 11:41:38 PM
Think we will get into play offs in spite of him if I can be brutally honest. Making to many mistakes for my liking and worryingly takes to long to learn from them, can see us going on another losing run due to lack of using squad, which has really surprised me to be honest.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on December 04, 2018, 07:18:32 AM
Moore would argue that Brentford should have been out of sight.

However as a coach he has to deal with things in the present moment it was obvious to everyone in the stadium we had dropped off and even more so that we had a couple of players running on fumes .He didn’t react and this is an ongoing concern. Not only would a sub have given us fresh legs but it would also have broken the game up .

Moore didn’t even have the subs warming up and that tells its own story.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on December 04, 2018, 07:34:42 AM
Funny thing is that we would not be having this conversation if we had won last night......
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: NathWBA on December 04, 2018, 07:58:18 AM
Funny thing is that we would not be having this conversation if we had won last night......
you can say that about literally anything, if’s and buts are irrelevant, the fact is we didn’t win, if if we had won his failings are there to be discussed. virtually the whole ground could see Morrison was shattered and needed to come off, we were crying out for fresh legs in the latter stages. I really want Moore to succeed but he needs to start learning from the mistakes fast, we can’t afford him the time to learn if we want to go up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on December 04, 2018, 09:09:46 AM
Funny thing is that we would not be having this conversation if we had won last night......

I'd certainly have raised the issue, not sure about anyone else. It was crying out for fresh legs
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on December 04, 2018, 09:17:10 AM
Funny thing is that we would not be having this conversation if we had won last night......
I think we would, because we have before.  I only get to watch on streams or highlights, so I'm happy to be corrected by those who pick up these things at the ground, but he doesn't seem to be keen on the players making tactical decisions on the pitch as games develop, or on using subs much.  He will be done by other managers if they realise this - the Brentford bloke, who's name I can't even remember, looked like a frightened rabbit most of the game, waved them forward, brought on a guy who scored, and we didn't do anything at all as they started to work the gaps except retreat gradually till the CHs were on the 18 yard line, asking for it.  Even if we'd got away with it, Dean Smith wouldn't have needed a notebook to write anything down, it was so clear.  Another thing you can't get off the telly, what's the Jones/Moore dynamic look like in real life?  Were they talking much?

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on December 04, 2018, 09:18:01 AM
Bizarrely we could have lost that were it not for an excellent save from Johnston, the scary thing for me is that once we sat back we conceded (again)
Every manager watching will have seen that and we can expect to be put under pressure in up coming games
a) because it nullifies our potency upfront (we create chances for fun)
b) because even the poorest teams score against us
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on December 04, 2018, 09:23:22 AM
Moore would argue that Brentford should have been out of sight.

However as a coach he has to deal with things in the present moment it was obvious to everyone in the stadium we had dropped off and even more so that we had a couple of players running on fumes .He didn’t react and this is an ongoing concern. Not only would a sub have given us fresh legs but it would also have broken the game up .

Moore didn’t even have the subs warming up and that tells its own story.
It would also have given Mozza and / or Phillips an extra 20 mins rest before a massive game on Friday.
Absolutely no excuse for not using all 3 subs last night, bordering on madness. If we play the same 11 against Villa then tiredness could be our downfall.
If Kanu is injured, I can see us reverting to 352 with Brunt coming back in, which does not bode well against a team that has scored a dozen goals in 3 games.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on December 04, 2018, 09:34:44 AM
I'd certainly have raised the issue, not sure about anyone else. It was crying out for fresh legs

I don't disagree with you there Fritzl. If you are saying to the bloke next to you at 80+ minutes 'they are going to score here' then something must be wrong. I did last night and I think everyone else in the ground did the same, because we have been there before. So why didnt the management team see it?
I have said on another thread I hope Darren learnt something from last nights game. I am a big Darren fan but his substitutions [or lack of] are puzzling at times........ 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on December 04, 2018, 09:48:22 AM
I don't disagree with you there Fritzl. If you are saying to the bloke next to you at 80+ minutes 'they are going to score here' then something must be wrong. I did last night and I think everyone else in the ground did the same, because we have been there before. So why didnt the management team see it?
I have said on another thread I hope Darren learnt something from last nights game. I am a big Darren fan but his substitutions [or lack of] are puzzling at times........

It's exactly what we were all saying, it was clear as day for all to see...except for the only ones who can actually effect it.

His substitutions all season have been horrendous. He is a rookie manager, but I do not see him learning from his mistakes which is the biggest worry.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Pie on December 04, 2018, 09:49:22 AM
Certain players have to take the blame for not scoring in the first half, we should have been 3-0 up (if not more). We could have then taken it easy in the 2nd half, rested key players by taking them off early.

However DM has to take responsibility for not changing it up when Brentford put us under pressure. As said above everyone could see the goal coming.

I have said previously that DM is so reactive rather than pro-active in his substitutions. Last night he wasn't even reactive as he made no changes after Brentford did. I did see the cameras focus on Jones and he seemed to indicate a back 3 with about 10 mins to go. I wonder if the defenders would not have got confused to let a man drift between them if they were still playing as a 4.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on December 04, 2018, 12:09:01 PM
Moore would argue that Brentford should have been out of sight.

However as a coach he has to deal with things in the present moment it was obvious to everyone in the stadium we had dropped off and even more so that we had a couple of players running on fumes .He didn’t react and this is an ongoing concern. Not only would a sub have given us fresh legs but it would also have broken the game up .

Moore didn’t even have the subs warming up and that tells its own story.

IMO, it was the fact that Brentford gamesmanship was breaking the game up, that stopped DM bringing any of our own.
 subs on

Substitutions always carry a risk of breaking the synergy in a team, we've seen it so often where a substitution is often followed by a conceded goal.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on December 04, 2018, 01:03:25 PM
Darren Moore was not the main reason for last nights draw, but he was one of the reason. (I would regard sub-standard finishing as the main cause).

Lots of people in the ground could tell it needed changing, as the players were showing fatigue - that neither he nor Jones could tell is staggering. His comment reveals a lot of naivety, which you wouldn't expect from somebody who had been around the game as long as he has. It's not just managerial naivety, because people who've been watching football could see it.

The subs bench was terrible. When we needed something a bit more dynamic to get through, all we had was Gayle. I don't get the continued exclusion of Sako, Burke, Edwards, or even Leko - at least they offer something different. Hoolahan, Brunt, and Barry offer nothing but steadying the ship, and you don't need three of those players on the bench.

The fact Moore hasn't made any changes to his starting line-up, or from the bench, has put us at a serious disadvantage for Friday night, and that's bad management.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Xpresso on December 04, 2018, 01:37:05 PM
For me, failure to beat a Brentford side totally devoid of confidence was purely down to management naivety.
Firstly, playing Robson-Kanu as a striker/attacker is a big mistake as far as I'm concerned, mainly because he can't hit the proverbial barn door with a banjo. Okay to bring him on later in the game, but not as first-choice starter. Had Gayle started last night we would have had the game sen up by half time.
Secondly, we're not varying our tactics in the slightest, so teams know exactly what they're going to have to deal with. It was the same when we used three at the back, the opposition adapted their team shape and tactics best suited to combating our strengths.
Thirdly, we're not making good use of the squad. Our midfielders is not the most mobile, Phillips apart, and Morrison, not long back from a lengthy spell out with injury and probably still lacking a bit in match fitness, was left to struggle on when it was clear he was running on empty.
Fourthly, someone needs to be reminding Gibbs that he has defensive responsibilities. He is caught out of position far too often and it's becoming increasingly clear that the weakness is being exploited.
Modern football is played at 90mph and coaches need to adapt quickly when the tide begins to turn, as it did last night after we finally got our noses in front.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: colinmax on December 04, 2018, 04:40:24 PM
Championship football is an 18man game.
How on earth can you have 5players of 35 or older,a good striker and a raw youngster on the bench to supplement your starting 11?
I agree DM should have made substitution of at least  3 players who hadn,t played 90 minutes with the Villa game in mind but surely you should name your subs to cover for every situation.

I didn,t want DM in the first place and suggested Dean Smith while Pulis was still the manager.I hope his appointment does not cost us promotion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on December 04, 2018, 05:51:46 PM
IMO, it was the fact that Brentford gamesmanship was breaking the game up, that stopped DM bringing any of our own.
 subs on




That would be concerning as you're basically saying he let Brentford dictate what we do.

Once we scored we should've done what Brentford had been doing. Go down. Bring on subs. Take time over throw in's etc, kill the game. It's not pretty but it's effective and in a scrappy half like the second half yesterday it was just what was needed. We didn't manage that part of the game at all well and it cost us. I'd call it naive the way we managed the remaining time once we'd scored.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dudleylad on December 04, 2018, 07:11:00 PM
Completely agree mate.

In addition to Moore stating he didnt feel fresh legs in centre midfield late on in the game is a major concern.

Im trying not to overreact as we are four unbeaten but I do believe the points need to be made.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on December 04, 2018, 07:40:49 PM

That would be concerning as you're basically saying he let Brentford dictate what we do.

Once we scored we should've done what Brentford had been doing. Go down. Bring on subs. Take time over throw in's etc, kill the game. It's not pretty but it's effective and in a scrappy half like the second half yesterday it was just what was needed. We didn't manage that part of the game at all well and it cost us. I'd call it naive the way we managed the remaining time once we'd scored.
Bringing on subs for the right reasons was the obvious thing we fell down on. Call me naive but I wouldn't want DM instructing players to go down to take the sting out of the game. Keeping possession is a less cynical way of taking the sting out of opposition momentum. If we did all the things you suggest and then conceded fans would say 'why did we stop playing and take our foot off the gas'.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on December 04, 2018, 07:50:41 PM
Bringing on subs for the right reasons was the obvious thing we fell down on. Call me naive but I wouldn't want DM instructing players to go down to take the sting out of the game. Keeping possession is a less cynical way of taking the sting out of opposition momentum. If we did all the things you suggest and then conceded fans would say 'why did we stop playing and take our foot off the gas'.


I agree with you in the main part. Monday was one of those games though, we couldn't keep the ball late on so we needed to find another way.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: stoxman on December 04, 2018, 07:53:47 PM
Lots of the posts above use the “naivety” to describe Moore.  I think that is way too generous.  If we let a kid from a local hospice manage a pre season friendly then we could forgive naivety.   If Moore has been undone by some leap of subtlety by a great manager then we could forgive naivety.

Moore may be relatively new to management but he has played 600 games of senior football. He has been in the game professionally for 30 years.  He has been in the dressing room with every kind of player and manager.  He has defended against some of the world’s greatest strikers.  He has played in front of 50k fans in massive stadiums.

Not knowing whether to substitute players who are almost unable to walk with 5 mins remaining isn’t naive; it is plain stupid.

Would we forgive a 30 year electrician who stuck his fingers in the socket because it’s his first year managing the electrical store??
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on December 04, 2018, 07:56:10 PM
Spot on Stoxman. He's not new to this sport. I do genuinely like him but as a manager I'm not so sure. He's blind to the blatantly obvious a lot of the time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on December 04, 2018, 08:02:58 PM
Spot on Stoxman. He's not new to this sport. I do genuinely like him but as a manager I'm not so sure. He's blind to the blatantly obvious a lot of the time.


Aren't all managers / head coaches like that? Whoever we have in charge people will criticise what they do.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on December 04, 2018, 11:14:15 PM

Aren't all managers / head coaches like that? Whoever we have in charge people will criticise what they do.

No i dont think they are all like that. No manager will ever please everyone of course but this is basic, obvious obivous stuff. Persisting with 3-5-2, continual lack of use of subs etc. It's just so obvious it's infuriating.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on December 05, 2018, 06:27:56 AM
Lots of the posts above use the “naivety” to describe Moore.  I think that is way too generous.  If we let a kid from a local hospice manage a pre season friendly then we could forgive naivety.   If Moore has been undone by some leap of subtlety by a great manager then we could forgive naivety.

Moore may be relatively new to management but he has played 600 games of senior football. He has been in the game professionally for 30 years.  He has been in the dressing room with every kind of player and manager.  He has defended against some of the world’s greatest strikers.  He has played in front of 50k fans in massive stadiums.

Not knowing whether to substitute players who are almost unable to walk with 5 mins remaining isn’t naive; it is plain stupid.

Would we forgive a 30 year electrician who stuck his fingers in the socket because it’s his first year managing the electrical store??

I personally don’t get all this negativity at this particular time when we have taken 10pts from a batch of 4 games and in the last we have one we have played some of our best football.

The time when I was annoyed with the management was the run of 4 games when we took 1pt from Derby, Hull, Wigan, Blackburn.  At the time we had Brunt and Bartley playing and we looked disjointed.

This has now been corrected (maybe later than it should’ve been).  There’s no way we’d have been promoted with that line up. 

The 2 issues I see now is integrating Sako/Burke as subs.  Then someone to replace Morrison through the Xmas Period as he tires, who is that going to be? 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on December 05, 2018, 08:21:47 AM
I have said before that football is a simple game, the rules and basics are understood by children at Primary school.
I have also said footballers are generally not the sharpest tools in the shed.
Most of us on here, well probably all of us,( some won't admit it for being seen as moaners or Dingles,) can see the obvious in a football game. ie if a player is tired, or if a formation is not working. It's not rocket science.
My biggest  gripe is these so called football managers who leave the best striker in the division on the bench, play left footed players in CM, Cb's at fullback and have strikers working the channels.
What in the name of God is that all about?
Gayle has said he would like to stay, so we keep sticking him on the bench. We play barely average defenders in a back three, despite it keep costing us goals.
Either the man is as dense as a piece of timber or he is so arrogant he doesn't want to admit he's wrong.
I think badges are just a bit of a cosmetic practice to give thick people a bit of confidence, a bit like the Wizard of Oz giving the scarecrow and Lion a diploma and medal.
It's not just Darren, i like the guy, but football in general.
For me a great simple exciting game has been turned more into a game of chess by clueless idiots.
Football is simple, play your best players in their best positions.
Having said that, we are third in the championship and Darren has a great record from the games he had in the prem.
You tell me, is it just beginners luck?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on December 05, 2018, 09:10:43 AM
I personally don’t get all this negativity at this particular time when we have taken 10pts from a batch of 4 games and in the last we have one we have played some of our best football.

The time when I was annoyed with the management was the run of 4 games when we took 1pt from Derby, Hull, Wigan, Blackburn.  At the time we had Brunt and Bartley playing and we looked disjointed.

This has now been corrected (maybe later than it should’ve been).  There’s no way we’d have been promoted with that line up. 

The 2 issues I see now is integrating Sako/Burke as subs.  Then someone to replace Morrison through the Xmas Period as he tires, who is that going to be?
I think the negativity around use of subs is more than justified as it has been an issue throughout Darren's tenure but it certainly doesn't warrant some of the statements we are seeing on here such as clueless, dense, arrogant etc.
Just to re-itterate your points; we are 3rd in the league and on a run of 4 unbeaten.
Your other point also seems to have been very quickly forgotten, in that we played some of the best football I have seen at the hawthorns for years, in that first half. If we had put away the sitters, that Darren's team selection and set up created, we would have gone in 2 or 3 up and I would defy anyone to define that as clueless, dense or arrogant.
It's perfectly acceptable to criticise, it's what a forum is for, but we should also give credit where it's due.
Moore has got things wrong this season but he has also got an awful lot right, more right than wrong in my opinion. If we win Friday, we will cement 3rd place and be a point off top two. That will signal a good weekend in my house  ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on December 05, 2018, 09:20:22 AM
I think the negativity around use of subs is more than justified as it has been an issue throughout Darren's tenure but it certainly doesn't warrant some of the statements we are seeing on here such as clueless, dense, arrogant etc.
Just to re-itterate your points; we are 3rd in the league and on a run of 4 unbeaten.
Your other point also seems to have been very quickly forgotten, in that we played some of the best football I have seen at the hawthorns for years, in that first half. If we had put away the sitters, that Darren's team selection and set up created, we would have gone in 2 or 3 up and I would defy anyone to define that as clueless, dense or arrogant.
It's perfectly acceptable to criticise, it's what a forum is for, but we should also give credit where it's due.
Moore has got things wrong this season but he has also got an awful lot right, more right than wrong in my opinion. If we win Friday, we will cement 3rd place and be a point off top two. That will signal a good weekend in my house  ;D


Great post.

We drew a game and some people are going way over the top. There will be matches we won't win that's football. When we don't win there is no need to keep changing things or having a go at the head coach, perspective is what is needed.

We are third in the table with 26 games to go. We're hardly in crisis.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on December 05, 2018, 09:22:33 AM

That would be concerning as you're basically saying he let Brentford dictate what we do.

Once we scored we should've done what Brentford had been doing. Go down. Bring on subs. Take time over throw in's etc, kill the game. It's not pretty but it's effective and in a scrappy half like the second half yesterday it was just what was needed. We didn't manage that part of the game at all well and it cost us. I'd call it naive the way we managed the remaining time once we'd scored.

Think this topic has moved on a bit since this conservation, but, I think I would take isssue by your use of the word "dictate"

I'm happy to concede that DM reacted to Brentford's gamesmanship, when perhaps he should have been more pro-active, but I'm not sure he was being dictated to.

I'm also not sure that DM is as naive as people think. We're in a period of transition, & up to the turn of the year, he has an opportunity to experiment. The very nature of experimentation means some times it doesn't work.
IMO, his judgement has been pretty good up to now, & our position in the table tends to support that opinion.
Come the turn of the year, then we reach the business part of the season, & experimentation becomes far more risky. It will be interesting to see what happens then.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: royhan on December 05, 2018, 09:26:16 AM
I have said before that football is a simple game, the rules and basics are understood by children at Primary school.
I have also said footballers are generally not the sharpest tools in the shed.
Most of us on here, well probably all of us,( some won't admit it for being seen as moaners or Dingles,) can see the obvious in a football game. ie if a player is tired, or if a formation is not working. It's not rocket science.
My biggest  gripe is these so called football managers who leave the best striker in the division on the bench, play left footed players in CM, Cb's at fullback and have strikers working the channels.
What in the name of God is that all about?
Gayle has said he would like to stay, so we keep sticking him on the bench. We play barely average defenders in a back three, despite it keep costing us goals.
Either the man is as dense as a piece of timber or he is so arrogant he doesn't want to admit he'
I think badges are just a bit of a cosmetic practice to give thick people a bit of confidence, a bit like the Wizard of Oz giving the scarecrow and Lion a diploma and medal.
It's not just Darren, i like the guy, but football in general..
For me a great simple exciting game has been turned more into a game of chess by clueless idiots.
Football is simple, play your best players in their best positions.
Having said that, we are third in the championship and Darren has a great record from the games he had in the prem.
You tell me, is it just beginners luck?

Excellent post Divinewind. I am sure that the majority of Albion fans will share your thoughts. Moore was appointed largely because of his past affinity with the club but football is such big business nowadays that there is no room for sentimentality. I'd like to read Jenkins' thoughts today. Knowing what he knows now would he have appointed Moore or Smith? I know which one I would have chosen. A defeat against the Villa will be disastrous for players' confidence and I can see us slipping down the table if we do lose. What has happened to our so called future stars - Leko, Burke and Edwards? They shone in pre-season but have hardly had a look in since as Moore has stuck largely with the players that got us relegated. I fear for the rest of the season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on December 05, 2018, 09:44:00 AM
I really despair of what I read on here! We have a bad result against a team we should have  battered but we have no right to expect to batter anyone we are not going to win every game despite what some on here think
 Any way back to Monday night we drew because our strikers couldn't finish and our defenders couldn't defend! How the hell is that Darren Moore's fault? Because Gayle was on the bench? No because if he had started there is no guarantee he would have scored or those chances would have been created also I would have started with the same team that had won the last 3.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on December 05, 2018, 09:47:49 AM
Another recurring theme with WBAFC, (not just through DM's tenure, although it persists) is the strategy of sitting back and defending a one goal lead.

Why not keep the ball in the front 2/3 of the pitch, too often when a team drops back into defensive mode the opposition manage to create chances.
What is wrong with running the ball into the corners, passing back and forth across the line and god forbid going for another goal. Yes that will go wrong occasionally but reverting to defensive posture goes wrong REGULARLY.

Before someone says look how many we have scored, i would also point out how many we have conceded particularly against teams in the lower half when leading.

Please, please can we defend from the front,
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on December 05, 2018, 09:59:15 AM
Excellent post Divinewind. I am sure that the majority of Albion fans will share your thoughts. Moore was appointed largely because of his past affinity with the club but football is such big business nowadays that there is no room for sentimentality. I'd like to read Jenkins' thoughts today. Knowing what he knows now would he have appointed Moore or Smith? I know which one I would have chosen. A defeat against the Villa will be disastrous for players' confidence and I can see us slipping down the table if we do lose. What has happened to our so called future stars - Leko, Burke and Edwards? They shone in pre-season but have hardly had a look in since as Moore has stuck largely with the players that got us relegated. I fear for the rest of the season.
What if we beat Villa (and therefore Smith)?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on December 05, 2018, 10:21:23 AM
I have said before that football is a simple game, the rules and basics are understood by children at Primary school.
I have also said footballers are generally not the sharpest tools in the shed.
Most of us on here, well probably all of us,( some won't admit it for being seen as moaners or Dingles,) can see the obvious in a football game. ie if a player is tired, or if a formation is not working. It's not rocket science.
My biggest  gripe is these so called football managers who leave the best striker in the division on the bench, play left footed players in CM, Cb's at fullback and have strikers working the channels.
What in the name of God is that all about?
Gayle has said he would like to stay, so we keep sticking him on the bench. We play barely average defenders in a back three, despite it keep costing us goals.
Either the man is as dense as a piece of timber or he is so arrogant he doesn't want to admit he's wrong.
I think badges are just a bit of a cosmetic practice to give thick people a bit of confidence, a bit like the Wizard of Oz giving the scarecrow and Lion a diploma and medal.
It's not just Darren, i like the guy, but football in general.
For me a great simple exciting game has been turned more into a game of chess by clueless idiots.
Football is simple, play your best players in their best positions.
Having said that, we are third in the championship and Darren has a great record from the games he had in the prem.
You tell me, is it just beginners luck?

Great post mate and spot on with a lot of your comments.

One question though, why cant we play left footed players in centre midfield?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on December 05, 2018, 12:18:26 PM
Great post about how simple the game is. I have been on here many times saying exactly the same thing. My problem with so called modern day football is that it has been turned into a science.
Imagine having an Ipad and showing it to Bomber Brown as he was about to come on. What would it say? "try and score" To John Wile " Stop them scoring"
These players are here because those in the 'so called' know think they can play, so let them play. Just try to put them in the right place in the team. Yes we are going to make mistakes at times but in all fairness we are making too many late in games. Giles would never have let that happen from a leading position. It is all pretty obvious - if we are winning try to get more or see the game out. against QPR that worked well and we all felt good. No matter how much we battered Brentford we still drew and you don't get points for nearly winning. As someone else has said you are going to concede the odd late goal and slip the odd point but we do it far to often. Our goal difference should be what it is called - a huge difference. That's why it is part of the deciding factor in where teams finish. Score loads and don't concede is what is needed. Unless you win every game 5- 4 which we won't.
Let's hope for something on Friday to give us a smile for the weekend. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on December 05, 2018, 12:43:14 PM
Another recurring theme with WBAFC, (not just through DM's tenure, although it persists) is the strategy of sitting back and defending a one goal lead.

Why not keep the ball in the front 2/3 of the pitch, too often when a team drops back into defensive mode the opposition manage to create chances.
What is wrong with running the ball into the corners, passing back and forth across the line and god forbid going for another goal. Yes that will go wrong occasionally but reverting to defensive posture goes wrong REGULARLY.

Before someone says look how many we have scored, i would also point out how many we have conceded particularly against teams in the lower half when leading.

Please, please can we defend from the front,
I think the problem at the end against Brentford is that we did neither, we didn't go for the kill, and we didn't go back into a proper defensive shape - no-one made a decision, so the defenders, being defenders, drifted backwards, while some were still trying to make breaks - Morrison lost the ball on the touchline just before their goal because he tried to beat two players, and if he had we could have been away on the break, it just bobbled their way off someone's shins if I saw it right, and they went forward and ended up scoring soon after.  I wouldn't have minded so much if they had scored as a result of the game going basketball and us trying for the second, but we didn't, we just sort of tried to hang in there.

Basically we had no shape at the end and no-one did anything about it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on December 05, 2018, 01:07:52 PM
What if we beat Villa (and therefore Smith)?

Exactly! It is quite alarming to me how many of our own assume we will lose this game. We could lose it.... but we may well not!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on December 05, 2018, 01:23:10 PM
Exactly! It is quite alarming to me how many of our own assume we will lose this game. We could lose it.... but we may well not!!
Not just assuming we will lose but that we will inevitably plummet down the league as a consequence.
I don't know what it is either. We are above them in the league and our current form is on par with theirs yet we appear to have no chance!
There is the width of a fag paper between us and it could go either way, but it will not be season defining.

My feeling is that, it hurts so much to lose these games and the bragging rights are submitted, at least until the next meeting, that we are that scared of getting beat we prepare ourselves for the worst. This leads to us subconsciously ignoring all the positives and convincing ourselves that we can't possibly win. It's the standard defence mechanism of the football fan. ;D

Let's have some Noel Edmunds style cosmic order and all think positive. Altogether now.... Hhommmmmmmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on December 05, 2018, 02:31:35 PM
I think the problem at the end against Brentford is that we did neither, we didn't go for the kill, and we didn't go back into a proper defensive shape - no-one made a decision, so the defenders, being defenders, drifted backwards, while some were still trying to make breaks - Morrison lost the ball on the touchline just before their goal because he tried to beat two players, and if he had we could have been away on the break, it just bobbled their way off someone's shins if I saw it right, and they went forward and ended up scoring soon after.  I wouldn't have minded so much if they had scored as a result of the game going basketball and us trying for the second, but we didn't, we just sort of tried to hang in there.

Basically we had no shape at the end and no-one did anything about it.

Spot on!! It was a real clustermessup. 

Players - In a team yet to keep a clean sheet the players hit the panic button and dropped deep to protect the lead.  At one point our only means of playing the ball out was to hit Tosin on the half way line who just flicked the ball away each time -  again drawing Brentford on.

Management - Regardless of how they scored it was coming, we could all see/feel that it was coming. The whole stadium fans and players were clenching buttocks.  I can understand that a manger with faith in his players would keep things as they were as we had dominated most of the game...but I'm hoping they learn.   As much as Brentford's gamesmanship was soooo frustrating I would have been happy to see us make substitutions just to break up Brentford's impetus and see our players writhe around on the floor like they had been snipered.   If we cannot close out a game against a team we have just dominated then we will not challenge for the top 2.  Simples.

Still happy with Darren Moore though.  Any manager that can set a team up so they should be leading 6-0 at half time is doing something right and he needs to be backed in January with a RB and CM at least as

a. Tosin cannot do the job of an attacking RB so when Brentford closed down Gibbs side in the second half there was no alternative to go wide right.
b.  Mozza has made a massive difference to this team, and he looks fitter and sharper than for a few years....but will he last the season?


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on December 05, 2018, 03:01:26 PM
I have said before that football is a simple game, the rules and basics are understood by children at Primary school.
I have also said footballers are generally not the sharpest tools in the shed.
Most of us on here, well probably all of us,( some won't admit it for being seen as moaners or Dingles,) can see the obvious in a football game. ie if a player is tired, or if a formation is not working. It's not rocket science.
My biggest  gripe is these so called football managers who leave the best striker in the division on the bench, play left footed players in CM, Cb's at fullback and have strikers working the channels.
What in the name of God is that all about?
Gayle has said he would like to stay, so we keep sticking him on the bench. We play barely average defenders in a back three, despite it keep costing us goals.
Either the man is as dense as a piece of timber or he is so arrogant he doesn't want to admit he's wrong.
I think badges are just a bit of a cosmetic practice to give thick people a bit of confidence, a bit like the Wizard of Oz giving the scarecrow and Lion a diploma and medal.
It's not just Darren, i like the guy, but football in general.
For me a great simple exciting game has been turned more into a game of chess by clueless idiots.
Football is simple, play your best players in their best positions.
Having said that, we are third in the championship and Darren has a great record from the games he had in the prem.
You tell me, is it just beginners luck?

Much to agree with in this post - once of SGM's greatest qualities whilst at the Hawthorns was bringing in players that were specialists in their position and sticking them there.   No fullbacks so in comes Lyttle and Clem.  Easy to beat in the air at corners so in came Butler.  Lacking captains? just go out and buy everybody else's (at one point I think we had four ex club captains in the first 11).  But what SGM did was bring in players to rectify the identified weaknesses.   Once Bartley, Barnes and Gayle had arrived Darren Moore was basically left to fill the remaining gaps with freebies and best mates!! I can guarantee they weren't his first choices.   So you get a CB at RB and Brunty in CM. 

However, in regards to dense or arrogant I have seen many more experienced football managers here who would have taken a lot longer than Darren Moore to change from a preferred way of playing.  Three? poor results in a 3-5-2 and we are playing 4-3-3 against Leeds and back on the up.  I agree that we struggled defensively at times in a 3-5-2 but we were winning games and scoring goals, isn't that what we all wanted? On the whole I was loving the 3-5-2 experiment and fully expect us to play that way again once the squad is supplemented. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on December 06, 2018, 12:56:14 AM
Don't mind either system but our problem was asking defender's to play silky football from the back which none of them are use to or comfortable doing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 08, 2018, 01:47:15 AM
Picked a team to dominate tonight, we definitely missed Mozza and HRK we but while the scores were level we were by far the better side... Dean Smith... another manager schooled by Big Darren Moore.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on December 08, 2018, 02:30:07 AM
Picked a team to dominate tonight, we definitely missed Mozza and HRK we but while the scores were level we were by far the better side... Dean Smith... another manager schooled by Big Darren Moore.
A good game to watch. A derby. Nobody schooled anyone.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on December 08, 2018, 07:47:40 AM
Picked a team to dominate tonight, we definitely missed Mozza and HRK we but while the scores were level we were by far the better side... Dean Smith... another manager schooled by Big Darren Moore.
That made me laugh Jacko!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on December 08, 2018, 08:15:39 AM
It's been obvious since day 1 that Moore's weakness at this level is conceding. We scored 2 tonight at home and still didn't win, whenever you go 1 goal up, you know you need at least 1 more because you will end up conceding at some point.

Sort the defence out and we go up, otherwise we stay down.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on December 08, 2018, 09:28:06 AM
Now's not the time to knee jerk , thats exactly how you get in trouble . Things from Moore need to improve , too much patching up and getting by this season .
We almost need to go back to basics again defending wise , stopping crosses , staying with your man , keeping your shape. Basics.
While there's things I question about Moore I will add he's been given little to work with , what side chasing promotion has to sign Mears , Wes and a knackered Sako ?
He's needs backing at least a right back , midfielder and striker.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on December 08, 2018, 09:51:44 AM
Now's not the time to knee jerk , thats exactly how you get in trouble . Things from Moore need to improve , too much patching up and getting by this season .
We almost need to go back to basics again defending wise , stopping crosses , staying with your man , keeping your shape. Basics.
While there's things I question about Moore I will add he's been given little to work with , what side chasing promotion has to sign Mears , Wes and a knackered Sako ?
He's needs backing at least a right back , midfielder and striker.

I don't think things can be considered knee jerk when you have been watching it for 21 games.

Having to score 2/3 goals to get something out of a game is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on December 08, 2018, 09:56:27 AM
Now's not the time to knee jerk , thats exactly how you get in trouble . Things from Moore need to improve , too much patching up and getting by this season .
We almost need to go back to basics again defending wise , stopping crosses , staying with your man , keeping your shape. Basics.
While there's things I question about Moore I will add he's been given little to work with , what side chasing promotion has to sign Mears , Wes and a knackered Sako ?
He's needs backing at least a right back , midfielder and striker.

The problem we have is that we have our first 11 beyond that Moore doesn’t seem to want to use or trust the subs . Last night we have Burke who has been in oblivion thrust
 into the last 10 mins yet people like Sako who has premier league and big game experience left on bench . We are coming up to a busy period and some of our players are tiring after 60 minutes if he can’t give people 5 or 10 mins against Brentford what’s he going to do when he has got to give them 90 .

Mears was a Moore choice  of that there is no doubt .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on December 08, 2018, 10:00:39 AM
Picked a team to dominate tonight, we definitely missed Mozza and HRK we but while the scores were level we were by far the better side... Dean Smith... another manager schooled by Big Darren Moore.

Schooled, by needing a 90th minute handball on our own patch and Abraham to miss the easiest chance you’ll ever see  ;D please never change, Jacko
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on December 08, 2018, 10:14:27 AM
I don't think things can be considered knee jerk when you have been watching it for 21 games.

Having to score 2/3 goals to get something out of a game is ridiculous.
The bloke hasn't had 30 games yet has he ? , he's a rookie thats taken over a mess of a club when you look at thr big picture . He's learning on the job and will make mistakes , thats not touching on the cost cutting thats gone on . In many ways he's over achieving , as I've said to you before there's plenty I don't agree with but he needs time .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on December 08, 2018, 10:18:05 AM
The problem we have is that we have our first 11 beyond that Moore doesn’t seem to want to use or trust the subs . Last night we have Burke who has been in oblivion thrust
 into the last 10 mins yet people like Sako who has premier league and big game experience left on bench . We are coming up to a busy period and some of our players are tiring after 60 minutes if he can’t give people 5 or 10 mins against Brentford what’s he going to do when he has got to give them 90 .

Mears was a Moore choice  of that there is no doubt .
I look at the bench and other than Brunt I don't see anybody who can change a game , Sako maybe if he gets fit.
I see Mears as a example of whats gone on , Nyom on good money shoved out and a cheap cover signing coming in.
If thats not cost cutting I don't know what is , I can only hope Dowling hits the floor running.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on December 08, 2018, 10:44:03 AM
Schooled, by needing a 90th minute handball on our own patch and Abraham to miss the easiest chance you’ll ever see  ;D please never change, Jacko
jrod against Brentford was worse
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on December 08, 2018, 11:25:46 AM
I look at the bench and other than Brunt I don't see anybody who can change a game , Sako maybe if he gets fit.
I see Mears as a example of whats gone on , Nyom on good money shoved out and a cheap cover signing coming in.
If thats not cost cutting I don't know what is , I can only hope Dowling hits the floor running.

A lot of people wanted anyone Nyom out though. I think he wanted to leave rather than being shoved out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on December 08, 2018, 12:52:03 PM
A lot of people wanted anyone Nyom out though. I think he wanted to leave rather than being shoved out.
Either way I'd bet Mears is at least on 50% less wages than Nyom , cost cutting from above
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on December 08, 2018, 01:08:21 PM
Anyone know how many player's have started for us this year must be the fewest in league
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Brummie Road on December 08, 2018, 01:44:04 PM
As I see it, following the relegation, the steady decline, chopping and changing of Head Coaches (4 in one season if you count Sir Gary) and looking at the Summer transfer upheaval (particularly the loss of our best GK for years) and teams we were putting out in the first few pre- season friendlies in the Summer, then if anyone had asked us if we would be satisfied to be sitting in 3rd place (appreciate that may change later today) and scoring 44 goals in the league, then for the majority of us, we'd have definitely exceeded expectations.

Darren Moore deserves huge credit for that. He also represents the club with great dignity.

Whether it'll get us promotion, well who knows?

Looking at the table, even going as low as 12th place Stoke, you see teams who could conceivably put together a run of results to catapult themselves into automatic contention.

In addition, from the outside looking in, it does appears that there's no great pot of cash left over from the Prem era and it's a matter of wheeling and dealing on a self financing basis.

Of course there's been issues, with formations, some of the Summer recruitment of players hasn't quite worked as we'd all hoped and defensive frailties have raised their ugly head which we clearly need to work on, but as we approach the end of the year, I'm not really sure anyone could have got more out of this squad than he has.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on December 08, 2018, 03:44:13 PM
Anyone know how many player's have started for us this year must be the fewest in league
i dont know about starting  but i can tell you that we've used 24 players so far, which is around the average.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on December 08, 2018, 04:10:52 PM
I’ve been saying for the last 2 months that the midfield wasn’t mobile enough.  We’ve been better with Morrison but for me we’ve got some tough decisions to make in January or June.  We need to decide what we do with Brunt, Hoolanhan, Barry and possibly Livermore and Morrison. 

I reckon we’ll get away with it against the lesser sides as our overall quality should tell.  The teams we play with greater quality will punish us (certainly if we get promoted).

The other point i’ll make is that if Sako and Burke aren’t utilised over a hectic Xmas then surely they’ll be surplus to requirements too?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on December 08, 2018, 05:43:36 PM
We have a few quality players but a poor squad (despite what the media says). Moore needs to be backed in January. A right back and 2 younger centre midfielders with energy (box to box) are vital. A new goalie might be good too ;)
I think DM is doing a good job all things considered.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on December 08, 2018, 08:20:17 PM
I’ve been saying for the last 2 months that the midfield wasn’t mobile enough.  We’ve been better with Morrison but for me we’ve got some tough decisions to make in January or June.  We need to decide what we do with Brunt, Hoolanhan, Barry and possibly Livermore and Morrison. 

I reckon we’ll get away with it against the lesser sides as our overall quality should tell.  The teams we play with greater quality will punish us (certainly if we get promoted).

The other point i’ll make is that if Sako and Burke aren’t utilised over a hectic Xmas then surely they’ll be surplus to requirements too?

Hoolahan will be released. Sako seems a strange one because he hasn't even had a go. Might as well get rid of him too. Barry will be released come summer regardless of division and possibly Brunt if we're going to continue with 433.

Mears should be released on the basis we're going to sign a good right back whose going straight into the first 11.

Kids need to go out on loan; leko Edwards field etc. Although if hoolahan is released and Burke gets shipped out maybe Edwards will get a go.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on December 08, 2018, 11:44:48 PM
This seems like a circular argument. On the one hand we do have the one of the better squads in the Championship and possibly Moore could be getting better results out of it although we are a bit off the automatic places we have spent most of the season in the top 6. After the dislocation of relegation that is better than a lot of relegated teams have managed in recent seasons.

I honestly cannot see how posters can be seriously suggest that we should be replacing him
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on December 09, 2018, 12:47:47 AM
This next transfer window is possibly the most important of recent times.

It will show us the owners intentions and the recruitment skills of the new team of LD and Co and their knowledge and connections.

If the right players are brought in then we can push for top 2, but if they aren't then we will be lucky to scrape into the top 6.

Fingers crossed we'll be a much more handyside by the time we play the vile next time.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on December 10, 2018, 08:55:11 AM
People have been complaining about Darren Moore's use of substitutes this season, quite rightly at times, but his decision to bring Brunt on on Friday certainly influenced the game. It was his pass that led to the cross for the equaliser.

We went 4-2-4 chasing the equaliser on Friday (Brunt and Barry in midfield, Barnes left, Burke right, JRod and Gayle through the middle) - again a Darren Moore decision which paid off. Phillips pushed further forward as the game went on and in the end played as an attacking right back and it was he who provided the cross for the hand of Rod goal.

Well done Darren.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on December 11, 2018, 08:12:32 AM
Anyone know how many player's have started for us this year must be the fewest in league

We've started every game with 11 players on the pitch, same as every other club in the league! :D

There are 13 teams that have used less players than us. Rotherham have used the fewest with 21, Ipswich have used the most at 28, we are pretty much slap bang in the middle, as Hunnington Baggie has said, with 24 players used so far. Bolton, Bristol City, Leeds and Forest have also all used 24 players so far.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/championship/eingesetztespieler/wettbewerb/GB2
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on December 11, 2018, 11:58:53 AM
The only way we'll be close to promotion spots or play offs is to invest in at least three players - RB, Centre Mid and Striker. That's if we don't lose any players.

Darren has done well with a good squad but it's not a squad of World beaters. Also, it's very tailored for defensive work whilst he's tried to open us up a bit more - Remember Pepe Mel's attempt at this (amongst others) !

I'm not exactly buzzing at the moment but if we bring in a few players in January who can make a difference with extra legs and quality, then who knows, we might be up there. I personally think a play off place would be a good achievement this year, provided there are signs we're building and not just living year to year as we have done in the past few years................
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on December 15, 2018, 05:02:55 AM
To think some thought Darren was clueless and wanted him gone
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on December 15, 2018, 06:30:41 AM
Moore has been absolutely outstanding. To take on the post Pardew and Pulis shambles, detain key players, change the style of play and get us to where we are is some achievement. We’ve had one blip in form and answered it really strongly which is a great sign. Clearly the squad is a little unbalanced and we need to retain our perky players but also bring in a right back as every time our midfield look out to the right they have to turn back in because Tosin is staying too deep (Not a criticism of him).

But well done Moore.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on December 15, 2018, 09:34:22 AM
He's doing a fantastic job.

There are some people that want him out it's absolutely mind blowing. That's football fans I suppose.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on December 15, 2018, 10:01:45 AM
A coach finding out if he has what it takes to be a manager, doing pretty well so far if you ask me - not very comfortable in front of the mic so he falls back on cliches a bit, but at least he isn't driven by ego like the last two specimins we had.  Now for the Xmas congestion/FA Cup, see what he makes of that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on December 15, 2018, 12:16:25 PM
Think we were very poor up until goal last night and with back four looking shaky again, goals change games and how true that was for us. Why wait till half time to tweak tactics that should be done during game, only tactics I saw was to let Sheffield United run themselves into ground. Two gripes I have with coaching staff was one why put our best finisher out on wing to accommodate anonymous Rodriguez and two with 5 games coming up in fifteen days why wasn't bench utilised.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on December 15, 2018, 12:34:34 PM
He's done very well so far. He's a rookie still let's remember.  He has to continue rebuilding whilst getting results which is a very tough task.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on December 15, 2018, 01:23:00 PM
Think we were very poor up until goal last night and with back four looking shaky again, goals change games and how true that was for us. Why wait till half time to tweak tactics that should be done during game, only tactics I saw was to let Sheffield United run themselves into ground. Two gripes I have with coaching staff was one why put our best finisher out on wing to accommodate anonymous Rodriguez and two with 5 games coming up in fifteen days why wasn't bench utilised.

The bench is terrible and I have not seen such game management from us ever away from home it was that good in the second half last night so why change it?

DM is doing a stellar job with an incredibly bad hand, where everyone has left in the summer and he and Jenkins were doing it all. Then "trusted" Albion fan Cutler jumped at the first opportunity and it's been chopping and changing all along.

Hopefully, we have now begun to settle and the recruitment of LD and IP will have us advance.

The next window is probably the most important in our history.

We don't have to spend millions but we need to bring players in.

When I would consider is Harrison Reed on loan at Blackburn and see if Southampton want to sell or at the very least if his loan move to Blackburn is season long.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on December 15, 2018, 01:59:59 PM
The second half last night and the Leeds game are the only two times we've looked great this season. I've read opposition forums after every game and Sheff Utd/Leeds are the only two where we've been particularly praised, matching my opinion on all of our performances to date. Even QPR fans could see we weren't all that after we beat them 7-1, which I'd also agree with.

I still have little confidence in Moore and he will have to do a lot more that steer the best team in the league to 3rd with 1 clean sheet in 22 for that to change. That still doesn't mean I won't praise him when he gets things right (e.g. not bringing subs on after we took the lead yesterday because we were comfortable.).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on December 15, 2018, 02:36:10 PM
Strange that we occasionally criticise Darren for his subs, but let’s be fair he is still learning his craft. Not so long ago when we were all done and dusted a certain chap would bring on Gardner..... that went well didn’t it...so when we have a go at Darren let’s remember a chap with a lot of experience sometimes got it wrong
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on December 15, 2018, 04:02:49 PM
Strange that we occasionally criticise Darren for his subs, but let’s be fair he is still learning his craft. Not so long ago when we were all done and dusted a certain chap would bring on Gardner..... that went well didn’t it...so when we have a go at Darren let’s remember a chap with a lot of experience sometimes got it wrong

I criticise him for lack of subs most weeks because it is detrimental to the team. It was blindingly obvious that Morrison was knackered after we took the lead against Brentford, Moore left him on and Morrison was at fault for the equaliser because he couldn't close down quick enough. Last night we were all over Sheff Utd after we scored and closed the game out perfectly, there was no need for a substitution so kudos to Darren for that.

As for Pulis, I was one of his biggest critics on here. Totally outdated dinosaur of a manager who is currently being found out at Middlesbrough. There are a lot of head coaches I'd swap Moore for, Pulis isn't one of them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on December 15, 2018, 04:10:14 PM
I do think it's a bit contradictory to complain about the number of fixtures while not making subs in games like last night.  If we'd swapped Jrod for Sakho, would that have made much difference to the result? I doubt it.  It would have given Jrod some rest and Sakho a run out though.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on December 15, 2018, 05:26:56 PM
The obsession with substitutions (relating to Moore) is strange. Our bench is poor, I don't see loads of options. After 20 minutes last night half of the fans wanted Barry subbed off and he was man of the match :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on December 15, 2018, 06:29:09 PM
Think we were very poor up until goal last night and with back four looking shaky again, goals change games and how true that was for us. Why wait till half time to tweak tactics that should be done during game, only tactics I saw was to let Sheffield United run themselves into ground. Two gripes I have with coaching staff was one why put our best finisher out on wing to accommodate anonymous Rodriguez and two with 5 games coming up in fifteen days why wasn't bench utilised.

A tactic that worked well by all accounts.....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on December 15, 2018, 09:28:22 PM
The bench is terrible and I have not seen such game management from us ever away from home it was that good in the second half last night so why change it?

DM is doing a stellar job with an incredibly bad hand, where everyone has left in the summer and he and Jenkins were doing it all. Then "trusted" Albion fan Cutler jumped at the first opportunity and it's been chopping and changing all along.

Hopefully, we have now begun to settle and the recruitment of LD and IP will have us advance.

The next window is probably the most important in our history.

We don't have to spend millions but we need to bring players in.

When I would consider is Harrison Reed on loan at Blackburn and see if Southampton want to sell or at the very least if his loan move to Blackburn is season long.

Totally agree on Harrison Reed he is exactly what we need thought he had a very good game for Blackburn at our place
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on December 15, 2018, 11:40:07 PM
The second half last night and the Leeds game are the only two times we've looked great this season. I've read opposition forums after every game and Sheff Utd/Leeds are the only two where we've been particularly praised, matching my opinion on all of our performances to date. Even QPR fans could see we weren't all that after we beat them 7-1, which I'd also agree with.

I still have little confidence in Moore and he will have to do a lot more that steer the best team in the league to 3rd with 1 clean sheet in 22 for that to change. That still doesn't mean I won't praise him when he gets things right (e.g. not bringing subs on after we took the lead yesterday because we were comfortable.).

Did I read that correct 7-1 isn't a great performance?

Doesn't matter the form of the other side 7-1 is always great.

And our squad is not the best squad Iin the div imo.

I think Stoke and vile's are better.

Stoke spent over £50m and only really lost shaqiri. Our bench is terrible and we have not got a rb.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on December 16, 2018, 12:35:17 AM
I watched the game on TV with a live twitter stream going and it was funny to watch the crescendo of tweets gathering from about 70 minutes for a substitution, obviously none were made nothing bad happened and everyone forgot how terrible it was  that Darren hadn't made a sub until he bought Chris Brunt on in the dying minutes of the game. 

I find the substitution debate amusing. I suspect that in general the significance of substitutions is greatly exaggerated because it is a fairly easy narrative. Substitute comes on scores goal (maybe even the scruffiest in the history of scruffy goals) manager is a genius or alternatively player comes on gives goal away manager is an idiot. That is seldom ever the case but it is something pundits and commentators can burble on about without much thought and attribute praise or blame.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on December 16, 2018, 09:51:08 PM
Club legend and fantastic person,but please lets be honest a football manager he is not,it will all end in tears,we still have no cohesion or fluidity to our play,we totally rely on individual moments of brilliance and Harvey Barnes,with someone like Dean Smith in charge we would be 10 points clear,the ridiculous 3 at the back play it out experiment cost us many points and ground,the subsitutions aren't great or just don't happen,ie taking off Barnes at boro,keeping Morrison on so long he cant close down,apart from Leeds and Qpr,we really haven't been very good at all,im not sure what is happening on the training ground
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on December 16, 2018, 10:15:42 PM
Club legend and fantastic person,but please lets be honest a football manager he is not,it will all end in tears,we still have no cohesion or fluidity to our play,we totally rely on individual moments of brilliance and Harvey Barnes,with someone like Dean Smith in charge we would be 10 points clear,the ridiculous 3 at the back play it out experiment cost us many points and ground,the subsitutions aren't great or just don't happen,ie taking off Barnes at boro,keeping Morrison on so long he cant close down,apart from Leeds and Qpr,we really haven't been very good at all,im not sure what is happening on the training ground
10 points clear
Well in that case let's go get him then ....however, this Dean smith fella ...you do know his fantastic manergerial capabilities failed to beat our guy, and he oversaw a 5 goal concede ...you sure ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 17, 2018, 06:07:02 AM
Club legend and fantastic person,but please lets be honest a football manager he is not,it will all end in tears,we still have no cohesion or fluidity to our play,we totally rely on individual moments of brilliance and Harvey Barnes,with someone like Dean Smith in charge we would be 10 points clear,the ridiculous 3 at the back play it out experiment cost us many points and ground,the subsitutions aren't great or just don't happen,ie taking off Barnes at boro,keeping Morrison on so long he cant close down,apart from Leeds and Qpr,we really haven't been very good at all,im not sure what is happening on the training ground


Moore has taken points off the wonderful Mr Smith as well as Bielsa, Pochettino, Klopp, Mourinho, and Benitez...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on December 17, 2018, 07:43:17 AM
10 points clear
Well in that case let's go get him then ....however, this Dean smith fella ...you do know his fantastic manergerial capabilities failed to beat our guy, and he oversaw a 5 goal concede ...you sure ?

Added to the fact that there’s just the slightest chance that he wouldn’t have taken the job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on December 17, 2018, 08:47:31 AM
Cut the personal comments out please, time to start handing out the 7 dayts again and in some cases it will be a permanent one given past misdemeanors
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on December 17, 2018, 09:59:56 AM
Club legend and fantastic person,but please lets be honest a football manager he is not,it will all end in tears,we still have no cohesion or fluidity to our play,we totally rely on individual moments of brilliance and Harvey Barnes,with someone like Dean Smith in charge we would be 10 points clear,the ridiculous 3 at the back play it out experiment cost us many points and ground,the subsitutions aren't great or just don't happen,ie taking off Barnes at boro,keeping Morrison on so long he cant close down,apart from Leeds and Qpr,we really haven't been very good at all,im not sure what is happening on the training ground

It's all good using those examples, but on the swing side you could also say that 99% of fans would have replaced Rodriguez for Sako in the villa game, which in hindsight would have meant Rodriguez wouldn't have been there to score his 'hand of Rod' and we would have lost the game.

I think some fans (not yourself) always want/need someone to moan about. Last year it was Pulis, then Pardew, then we looked at moaning at players, this season HRK became the one everyone laughed at, then he played well so it moved to Brunt, now hes out the team its DM getting the stick with subs.

Cant we just enjoy the ride. We have seen many teams this season drop points in unexpected games, I don't care who you are you wont walk away with the league by December. Leeds and Norwich have a little gap now from 3rd place yet I guarantee all their fans are still worried their form will drop off and they'll slip up.

We score goals for fun, we concede goals at a higher rate than we probably should, but you know what, its entertaining. Last season we all cried out to be entertained and to enjoy watching us play again and I can hand on heart say I would rather watch us play now than at any point over the last 2/3 years.

DM is a club legend, has the clubs best interest at heart, basically had to run the club on his own in the summer, has hardly had any real backing from the owner in regards to money etc, and we are still sitting in 3rd with a couple of winnable games coming up.

With some of the comments on here, anyone would think we are mid table and struggling.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on December 17, 2018, 10:06:30 AM
Darren has had 1 transfer window where he was hamstrung by the club (no execs in place and the Chadli farce) and had to resort to bringing in old players out of desperation to have a reasonably competitive squad.
I hope that we now have some opportunity to bring in some flair / pace / dynamism, lets not forget that some more established managers than Darren have struggled to get as good results in this division (Smith / Rowett / Pulis / Potter / Lambert).

Yes there has been a learning curve but what can we expect from a bloke with less than 30 games under his belt and a brand spanking new backroom team ??
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on December 17, 2018, 10:35:24 AM
Darren has had 1 transfer window where he was hamstrung by the club (no execs in place and the Chadli farce) and had to resort to bringing in old players out of desperation to have a reasonably competitive squad.
I hope that we now have some opportunity to bring in some flair / pace / dynamism, lets not forget that some more established managers than Darren have struggled to get as good results in this division (Smith / Rowett / Pulis / Potter / Lambert).

Yes there has been a learning curve but what can we expect from a bloke with less than 30 games under his belt and a brand spanking new backroom team ??

Whatever happens I just hope he's properly backed by the club during the coming transfer window. No real excuses for those at the top now as everybody appears to be in place. And you can bet some of the names you've mentioned such as Smith and Rowett will definitely receive the backing to strengthen their squads in January. Luke Dowling, Ian Pierce and Mark Jenkins - over to you.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on December 17, 2018, 11:02:58 AM
Darren has had 1 transfer window where he was hamstrung by the club (no execs in place and the Chadli farce) and had to resort to bringing in old players out of desperation to have a reasonably competitive squad.
I hope that we now have some opportunity to bring in some flair / pace / dynamism, lets not forget that some more established managers than Darren have struggled to get as good results in this division (Smith / Rowett / Pulis / Potter / Lambert).

Yes there has been a learning curve but what can we expect from a bloke with less than 30 games under his belt and a brand spanking new backroom team ??

Spot on.

If you look at the transfers DM made initially:

Johnstone - (younger replacement for Foster, im sure 99% fans were happy with this signing)

Bartley - again an experienced championship player, younger than Evans and McAuley.

Barnes - youthful player, flair and pace.

Gayle - Clinical in the championship, arguably the best striker in the league.

Each of those signings improved the first 11 when they were signed. DM may have been let down by tewith other targets, we will never know fully.

Transfer window shuts and we obviously didn't get all the targets we had hoped for, DM has then had to get some freebies in (99 times out of 100 these will be 'older heads'). Mears was cover for RB, DM had worked with him before so I can see why he went there. Wes and Sako have championship experience and on short term contracts they gave us other options. I think the fact that neither of them have really been used tells you that they were literally brought in as cover IF needed.

January will be an interesting one, we know seem more secure recruitment wise than we did in the summer and there seems to be a system in place, DM has an opportunity to bring in a couple of faces (obviously if the board give him a budget).

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on December 17, 2018, 11:26:36 AM
Club legend and fantastic person,but please lets be honest a football manager he is not,it will all end in tears,we still have no cohesion or fluidity to our play,we totally rely on individual moments of brilliance and Harvey Barnes,with someone like Dean Smith in charge we would be 10 points clear,the ridiculous 3 at the back play it out experiment cost us many points and ground,the subsitutions aren't great or just don't happen,ie taking off Barnes at boro,keeping Morrison on so long he cant close down,apart from Leeds and Qpr,we really haven't been very good at all,im not sure what is happening on the training ground
Since Smith Corberan took over at Villa, his record is W5, D3, L2. Darren Moore's record over the same period, W5, D3, L2.
Identical records, yet one is a tactical genius and the other not even fit to be called a "football manager". Sorry but that just doesn't stack up.
I'm all for criticism, where it's warranted, but to ignore the impact DM has had, and belittle him in such a way is just disrespectful.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on December 17, 2018, 11:50:31 AM
It really is about time people got of Darren's back. Third in the league is a very solid start and there will be 21 other teams who would swap with us. I'm not sure if anyone on here would want to swap with them. If we were playing awful and not getting results you might have some reason to moan, but realistically we are going into matches feeling like we are going to get something. Granted it took a few games for us to find our feet but we now have a pretty solid platform to build on. I'm not a big fan of the January window personally as I think signings are either panic buys and over priced or players that are not deemed good enough for their own clubs. My concern if anything is that we retain the players we have and if anything I would try and sign Barnes on a permanent deal - that would be like a signing and send out a message.
Keep it going Darren I think you are doing well.
When I was in Australia in October I bumped into a Cardiff fan who saw my Albion tee shirt and said he wished they had not gone up and he bet we would be very happy winning and competing in games. How right he was.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on December 17, 2018, 12:38:11 PM
I have kept quiet on this debate so far, but feel a need to comment having read the last couple of pages of this thread.  Firstly, on Darren's appointment I think this was quite cynical.  No real money sanctioned to be spent from above (and I do not think that any will be spent in January either), so the owners of the club played to the gallery and appointed Darren on the back of a very limited number of games where he had done exceptionally well and become a hero (as he was already).  Even more cynically if the club declines, Darren will take the bulk of the blame, even though the most pressing problem we have is lack of personnel in key areas- defence in particular.  Second comment is that he is growing into Management as Friday's match showed- he noted the gaps in the blades play and exploited them in the second half, he motivated our team to come out and play on a cold night in December in Sheffield.  I am also going to argue that this is not an isolated case, I think he has done this in a number of matches and is getting better at it as well.  The limitation he has is that he has a really thin squad.  On balance I tend to agree that he was right not to bring on a sub on Friday, even though the team looked tired at times.  However, the challenge is who would he have brought on anyway, there are no real game changers on our bench, and limited coverage in a number of areas.  One or two injuries in the New Year and life will get even tougher.  We can and should go straight back up, but we will not unless we invest in 2-3 key players.  If Darren does not get to do this, it will not be his fault.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on December 17, 2018, 02:13:52 PM
I have kept quiet on this debate so far, but feel a need to comment having read the last couple of pages of this thread.  Firstly, on Darren's appointment I think this was quite cynical.  No real money sanctioned to be spent from above (and I do not think that any will be spent in January either), so the owners of the club played to the gallery and appointed Darren on the back of a very limited number of games where he had done exceptionally well and become a hero (as he was already).  Even more cynically if the club declines, Darren will take the bulk of the blame, even though the most pressing problem we have is lack of personnel in key areas- defence in particular.  Second comment is that he is growing into Management as Friday's match showed- he noted the gaps in the blades play and exploited them in the second half, he motivated our team to come out and play on a cold night in December in Sheffield.  I am also going to argue that this is not an isolated case, I think he has done this in a number of matches and is getting better at it as well.  The limitation he has is that he has a really thin squad.  On balance I tend to agree that he was right not to bring on a sub on Friday, even though the team looked tired at times.  However, the challenge is who would he have brought on anyway, there are no real game changers on our bench, and limited coverage in a number of areas.  One or two injuries in the New Year and life will get even tougher.  We can and should go straight back up, but we will not unless we invest in 2-3 key players.  If Darren does not get to do this, it will not be his fault.

Excellent post.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on December 18, 2018, 01:22:35 PM
I have kept quiet on this debate so far, but feel a need to comment having read the last couple of pages of this thread.  Firstly, on Darren's appointment I think this was quite cynical.  No real money sanctioned to be spent from above (and I do not think that any will be spent in January either), so the owners of the club played to the gallery and appointed Darren on the back of a very limited number of games where he had done exceptionally well and become a hero (as he was already).  Even more cynically if the club declines, Darren will take the bulk of the blame, even though the most pressing problem we have is lack of personnel in key areas- defence in particular.  Second comment is that he is growing into Management as Friday's match showed- he noted the gaps in the blades play and exploited them in the second half, he motivated our team to come out and play on a cold night in December in Sheffield.  I am also going to argue that this is not an isolated case, I think he has done this in a number of matches and is getting better at it as well.  The limitation he has is that he has a really thin squad.  On balance I tend to agree that he was right not to bring on a sub on Friday, even though the team looked tired at times.  However, the challenge is who would he have brought on anyway, there are no real game changers on our bench, and limited coverage in a number of areas.  One or two injuries in the New Year and life will get even tougher.  We can and should go straight back up, but we will not unless we invest in 2-3 key players.  If Darren does not get to do this, it will not be his fault.

I pretty much agree with everything in this post.

The only thing I would say would be that would a more experienced manager not know how to put slightly more pressure on the board to make sure some signings happen/more money is spent?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on December 18, 2018, 01:45:45 PM
"See where we are at Christmas" seems to be a common benchmark so, how are we doing so far?

Sitting 3rd in the league
Guaranteed top 6 by Xmas whatever the results
Top goalscorers
2nd best goal difference
Above teams with bigger budgets and higher profile, experienced managers such as, Boro, Villa, Derby and Forest

All in all, I say a fantastic performance from a rookie manager. B+  Room for improvement but a sterling effort.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on December 18, 2018, 03:08:31 PM
I pretty much agree with everything in this post.

The only thing I would say would be that would a more experienced manager not know how to put slightly more pressure on the board to make sure some signings happen/more money is spent?

We have very recently had an experienced manager who was able to put pressure on the board! That didn't go so well in the end for anybody (particularly the Board).

I am more than happy for Darren to be working alongside the DoF and Chief Scout that are now in place, as that is the model that has served us well in the past.   You don't need a 6 figure salary to know where our weaknesses are, or the areas that need improving.  What you do need is a good scouting system to provide the manager with good options to choose from at the price we can afford.  Would be great to see us unearth another McCines, Dorrans (think Villa beat us to that one), Ollson, Mulumbu, Odemwengie or GMac to name a few.  Leftfield signings that have fitted into the Albion way and done us proud for minimal outlay. 


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on December 18, 2018, 05:19:12 PM
I'm pretty laissez faire about life and respect anyone's opinions...
BUT
Can't agree at all with anyone who doesn't admire everything DM has achieved and brought to us. This is a great season and I'm pretty sure we are ALL enjoying the ride... not even upset we're not top two, third is good for me as long as we are within reach.

I hope Big Dave reads this sometimes because I for one am really very grateful that we are fun to watch again. Thanks DM!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on December 18, 2018, 05:26:11 PM
I'm pretty laissez faire about life and respect anyone's opinions...
BUT
Can't agree at all with anyone who doesn't admire everything DM has achieved and brought to us. This is a great season and I'm pretty sure we are ALL enjoying the ride... not even upset we're not top two, third is good for me as long as we are within reach.

I hope Big Dave reads this sometimes because I for one am really very grateful that we are fun to watch again. Thanks DM!!

The negativity posts about him sadden me as like you i believe he is doing a good job, Lets get behind him and the players COYB.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on December 18, 2018, 07:17:09 PM
I was bored stupid with the football under Pulis, and bored stupid and frustrated under the clueless one. Darren has reminded me how exciting football can be again, and I am back in love with the Albion. Every match so far (with the possible exception of Middlesboro) has been wonderful to watch and utterly unpredictable. Well done Darren. I wasn't sure that he was the right appointment but he has won me over. I think he is building something good. Personally (and I realise that I will probably get some stick for this, and understand why) I think we would probably benefit long term from another season in the Championship as I really don't think our squad is anywhere near Premiership level and, even with a few new signings, we would probably just come straight back down again.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on December 19, 2018, 09:01:55 AM
I was bored stupid with the football under Pulis, and bored stupid and frustrated under the clueless one. Darren has reminded me how exciting football can be again, and I am back in love with the Albion. Every match so far (with the possible exception of Middlesboro) has been wonderful to watch and utterly unpredictable. Well done Darren. I wasn't sure that he was the right appointment but he has won me over. I think he is building something good. Personally (and I realise that I will probably get some stick for this, and understand why) I think we would probably benefit long term from another season in the Championship as I really don't think our squad is anywhere near Premiership level and, even with a few new signings, we would probably just come straight back down again.
Agree mate. Biggest concern for me is that promotion would mean a backwards step, in terms of the style of football, and the limitations in the squad and lack of real funding, would leave DM with no option but to apply a Pulis style of trying not to lose.
Another season in the Championship could give him chance to cement his style and supplement his squad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Sted1990 on December 19, 2018, 10:10:34 AM
Agree mate. Biggest concern for me is that promotion would mean a backwards step, in terms of the style of football, and the limitations in the squad and lack of real funding, would leave DM with no option but to apply a Pulis style of trying not to lose.
Another season in the Championship could give him chance to cement his style and supplement his squad.

I disagree. We have enough in our squad to compete with the bottom 5 of the prem and then with a few additions and better style of football we could push on and enjoy the prem more. 2 seasons in the champ can soon lead to 15 seasons, just ask Leeds, Forest, Sheffield Wednesday etc....let’s not take that risk
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on December 19, 2018, 10:24:13 AM
I disagree. We have enough in our squad to compete with the bottom 5 of the prem and then with a few additions and better style of football we could push on and enjoy the prem more. 2 seasons in the champ can soon lead to 15 seasons, just ask Leeds, Forest, Sheffield Wednesday etc....let’s not take that risk
If you discount the loan signings, no we don't, nothing like it. If you take out the loan signings, we would be down the other end of the Championship.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Sted1990 on December 19, 2018, 10:43:59 AM
If you discount the loan signings, no we don't, nothing like it. If you take out the loan signings, we would be down the other end of the Championship.

On that basis we would have Rondón back, we would sign players though so why be scared and wait a season, it’s this season or bust for me, the club would cut costs dramatically with another season at this level and our chances of promotion would deminish
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on December 19, 2018, 10:49:03 AM
I was bored stupid with the football under Pulis, and bored stupid and frustrated under the clueless one. Darren has reminded me how exciting football can be again, and I am back in love with the Albion. Every match so far (with the possible exception of Middlesboro) has been wonderful to watch and utterly unpredictable. Well done Darren. I wasn't sure that he was the right appointment but he has won me over. I think he is building something good. Personally (and I realise that I will probably get some stick for this, and understand why) I think we would probably benefit long term from another season in the Championship as I really don't think our squad is anywhere near Premiership level and, even with a few new signings, we would probably just come straight back down again.

I both agree entirely and disagree with the part I have bolded. I agree that our squad is nowhere near Premier League level, with me discounting Gayle and Barnes for that purpose who aren't ours, but another season in the Championship will do us no favours as the better players we do currently have that set our squad apart from Championship level (Dawson, Hegazy, Phillips etc) would all be picked off leaving us with a bang average squad as our owners will not invest. A season in the Premier League at least provides us with the big wedge of cash to be able to stay ahead of sides at this level.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 19, 2018, 10:56:52 AM
Also in assent. Another season at this level would be disastrous.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Sted1990 on December 19, 2018, 11:05:17 AM
Also in assent. Another season at this level would be disastrous.

Agreed. Have all these pro championship posters seen the Cardiff team that have a chance of survival, the prem isn’t that hard
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on December 19, 2018, 11:19:45 AM
Also in assent. Another season at this level would be disastrous.

Agreed.

This summer is going to be a big rebuild regardless of what division we are in - when you factor in Brunt, Barry, Mozza are all on their last legs, Tosin, Gayle and Barnes will return back to their clubs, Sako Wes and Mears will more than likely be let go.

Not to mention any of the players who think they belong in prem, i.e Jay Rod, Hegazi, Dawson, Phillips, Gibbs.

I would rather we were looking at premier league standard players, than building a championship squad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Black Pearl on December 19, 2018, 03:45:29 PM
I think we need accept the need to yo-yo for a couple of seasons to rebuild our team and ethos, to expect us to stay up, if we get promoted is unrealistic, the solid core of this team is just not there, Darren would be an absolute legend if he managed promotion and stability in the Premiership.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on December 19, 2018, 05:14:00 PM
I have been a "don't want to get back into the greed league" proponent.
This is from a fans perspective, for the club its an absolute necessity, I can see that 100%,

It doesn't mean that I have to want "it" too, especially if maintaining "it" means a return to "survival at any cost" football and good people losing their jobs because we don't have the financial clout to compete.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 19, 2018, 07:03:04 PM
I have been a "don't want to get back into the greed league" proponent.
This is from a fans perspective, for the club its an absolute necessity, I can see that 100%,

It doesn't mean that I have to want "it" too, especially if maintaining "it" means a return to "survival at any cost" football and good people losing their jobs because we don't have the financial clout to compete.


I'm talking from a fan perspective. Once this squad is broken up we won't be challenging at the top end of this division. It's not remotely enjoyable being a Championship also ran.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on December 19, 2018, 07:18:17 PM
Let’s just enjoy the ride and see what happens.

As a fan I can’t say I’m daunted by the Premier as the bottom 12 are as worse as i’ve ever known it.

When you watch 2 teams play from the bottom 12 it is not that dissimilar to the standard at the top of the Champ.

We do need to finish in the Top 2 and get back there.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on December 20, 2018, 07:57:08 AM
Agreed. Have all these pro championship posters seen the Cardiff team that have a chance of survival, the prem isn’t that hard

The fact that it's not even half way through the Premier league season and you've mentioned a team that might survive suggests that it is that hard a division. If it wasn't a hard division then no one would be talked about in terms of relegation less than half way through a season surely?
 
It's not necessarily about spending money as Fulham have spent something like £100M and look relegated.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on December 20, 2018, 10:56:09 AM
"See where we are at Christmas" seems to be a common benchmark so, how are we doing so far?

Sitting 3rd in the league
Guaranteed top 6 by Xmas whatever the results
Top goalscorers
2nd best goal difference
Above teams with bigger budgets and higher profile, experienced managers such as, Boro, Villa, Derby and Forest

All in all, I say a fantastic performance from a rookie manager. B+  Room for improvement but a sterling effort.

Surely most of that is a question of expectation. If you feel we have one of the best two squads then....

Sitting 3rd in the league - slightly under par
Guaranteed top 6 by Xmas whatever the results - if we are 6th it will be well below bar
Top goalscorers - very nice, but the games about winning.  One clean sheet.
2nd best goal difference - One clean sheet

Above teams with bigger budgets - Is this really true, How many bigger budgets than ours are there? Certainly below 2 smaller budgets.
Higher profile - Does profile means much? As a recently relegated side id say our profile is quite high. Harvey Barnes rejected Leeds for us. 
Experienced managers such as Boro, Villa, Derby and Forest. I'd expect to see more correlation with league position and budget than league position and managers experience.

DM is doing OK and he has us in the running. I dont buy any of the superlatives though.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on December 20, 2018, 11:19:26 AM
Surely most of that is a question of expectation. If you feel we have one of the best two squads then....

Sitting 3rd in the league - slightly under par
Guaranteed top 6 by Xmas whatever the results - if we are 6th it will be well below bar
Top goalscorers - very nice, but the games about winning.  One clean sheet.
2nd best goal difference - One clean sheet


Above teams with bigger budgets - Is this really true, How many bigger budgets than ours are there? Certainly below 2 smaller budgets.
Higher profile - Does profile means much? As a recently relegated side id say our profile is quite high. Harvey Barnes rejected Leeds for us. 
Experienced managers such as Boro, Villa, Derby and Forest. I'd expect to see more correlation with league position and budget than league position and managers experience.

DM is doing OK and he has us in the running. I dont buy any of the superlatives though.

Goals win games though, clean sheets don't. If we kept a clean sheet it just means we won't lose but if we don't score we won't win.

I am concerned about the lack of clean sheets but I'm sure they will come.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on December 20, 2018, 12:30:30 PM
Goals win games though, clean sheets don't. If we kept a clean sheet it just means we won't lose but if we don't score we won't win.

I am concerned about the lack of clean sheets but I'm sure they will come.

Totally understand what you are saying but a clean sheet gives you a base to start from. If you are confident of keeping one it helps relax in other areas and eases pressure, at the moment we go into games expecting to have to score at least 2 per game.

Sam Johnstone kept 20+ clean sheets last season in a defence that for spells contained Mile Jedinak a midfielder at centre half, do I think their defence of Chester/ Terry/ Jedinak is better than ours of Dawson and Hegazi ? no I don't one bit but something is not right for us and needs sorting. Maybe its the midfield that is lacking something in terms of protection for the back four.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on December 20, 2018, 12:58:25 PM
Totally understand what you are saying but a clean sheet gives you a base to start from. If you are confident of keeping one it helps relax in other areas and eases pressure, at the moment we go into games expecting to have to score at least 2 per game.

Sam Johnstone kept 20+ clean sheets last season in a defence that for spells contained Mile Jedinak a midfielder at centre half, do I think their defence of Chester/ Terry/ Jedinak is better than ours of Dawson and Hegazi ? no I don't one bit but something is not right for us and needs sorting. Maybe its the midfield that is lacking something in terms of protection for the back four.

That something would be called Yacob, for his limitations he was a brilliant shield for the back 4, no he doesn't fit the DM model but we do need something akin to CY, that said a Yacob who can pass and get up and down the pitch (a Kante / Mulumbu type) would be worth a small fortune if you could find one.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on December 20, 2018, 01:25:02 PM
Goals win games though, clean sheets don't. If we kept a clean sheet it just means we won't lose but if we don't score we won't win.

I am concerned about the lack of clean sheets but I'm sure they will come.

While goals win games, the lack of clean sheets could derail a promotion push. Take the Brentford game for example; if we had seen out a clean sheet there, we're two points better off. Then we're within one win of Norwich in second, not two. For the sake of one clean sheet.

You can't rely on your strikers to remain in form and score consistently through the season, but if you keep a few clean sheets then it takes the pressure off. You can't keep expecting to score 2 to 3 goals to win a game of football.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on December 20, 2018, 01:30:47 PM
While goals win games, the lack of clean sheets could derail a promotion push. Take the Brentford game for example; if we had seen out a clean sheet there, we're two points better off. Then we're within one win of Norwich in second, not two. For the sake of one clean sheet.

You can't rely on your strikers to remain in form and score consistently through the season, but if you keep a few clean sheets then it takes the pressure off. You can't keep expecting to score 2 to 3 goals to win a game of football.

I agree with the points that you and OldburyWBA both make in principle and as I said in my original post the lack of clean sheets is a concern.

I could also reasonably argue that you can't expect our defence to not get better and start keeping a few clean sheets.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on December 20, 2018, 02:25:43 PM
Surely most of that is a question of expectation. If you feel we have one of the best two squads then....

Sitting 3rd in the league - slightly under par
Guaranteed top 6 by Xmas whatever the results - if we are 6th it will be well below bar
Top goalscorers - very nice, but the games about winning.  One clean sheet.
2nd best goal difference - One clean sheet

Above teams with bigger budgets - Is this really true, How many bigger budgets than ours are there? Certainly below 2 smaller budgets.
Higher profile - Does profile means much? As a recently relegated side id say our profile is quite high. Harvey Barnes rejected Leeds for us. 
Experienced managers such as Boro, Villa, Derby and Forest. I'd expect to see more correlation with league position and budget than league position and managers experience.

DM is doing OK and he has us in the running. I dont buy any of the superlatives though.
Guess your expectations of an imbalanced, relegated squad, under a rookie manager, were greater than mine.

3rd has exceeded my expectations
In the play off places is a good return, just ask the other 2 relegated sides
Forest certainly have a bigger budget than us, as do Villa and Boro most likely. I'm guessing though so could be wrong.
I don't agree that a poor manager with a big budget is better than a good manager with a small budget. If that was true the manager would be rather inconsequential, surely?
A clean sheet has never won a game. We could keep 20 clean sheets in the second half of the season and not get promoted or could keep none and win the league. Goals scored and goal difference are far more important.

My glass is half full again and that's thanks to Big Darren. :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on December 20, 2018, 03:59:30 PM
46 clean sheets can get you relegated, but, never win you anything
scoring more than opposition can get you promoted - simples
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hardtobeat on December 20, 2018, 04:19:51 PM
46 clean sheets can get you relegated, but, never win you anything
scoring more than opposition can get you promoted - simples
Agree to a point but am willing to bet that if at the end of the season we only keep 2or 3 clean sheets which is what we are on course to do we won't win promotion
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on December 20, 2018, 06:08:54 PM
If we keep playing the way we are the clean sheets will start coming. We're not defending badly for the most part, Johnstone can't have had ten shots to save in the last half a dozen games, but we seem to lose concentration and gift teams a goal - usually Dawson and Adarabioyo. 4-0 up against Leeds should've been an easy clean sheet but Dawson switches off and doesn't see the runner he ball watches. Adarabioyo doesn't come across on the cover quickly enough (reading the game). 2-0 up at Ipswich and again we switch off mentally this time Adarabioyo not alert enough which creates a bad touch gifting them a goal. At Sheffield United - again Dawson and Adarabioyo. Dawson doesn't come across but more criminally Adarabioyo doesn't look along the line and step up. ALL of these goals are down to not concentrating well enough.

It might help if we had a proper right back to be fair. Harsh to be too critical of Tosin he's a young lad playing out of his natural position.

If Daws and Tosin can learn to communicate a bit better it'll cut out half the goals we concede.

I'm confident we will. In normal circumstances teams miss a few of the chances we gift them but once you start conceding it becomes a habit. Earlier in the season we conceded more goals from outside the area than I can ever remember us doing. Yes that's down to not closing down and not having the correct shape at times but it's also a bit unlucky that every shot seems to land in the top corner. Sometimes you go through spells like that.

London buses come to mind. Get one clean sheet and we'll probably get two or three in a row.
 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on December 20, 2018, 07:37:23 PM
Guess your expectations of an imbalanced, relegated squad, under a rookie manager, were greater than mine.

3rd has exceeded my expectations
In the play off places is a good return, just ask the other 2 relegated sides
Forest certainly have a bigger budget than us, as do Villa and Boro most likely. I'm guessing though so could be wrong.
I don't agree that a poor manager with a big budget is better than a good manager with a small budget. If that was true the manager would be rather inconsequential, surely?
A clean sheet has never won a game. We could keep 20 clean sheets in the second half of the season and not get promoted or could keep none and win the league. Goals scored and goal difference are far more important.

My glass is half full again and that's thanks to Big Darren. :D

If there was a like button I'd be pressing it.   It is all down to expectation and I genuinely had no idea what to expect before the season started.    I think a lot is being taken for granted.   Dawson was re integrated after THAT team photo.  Gibbs looks hungry and motivated.  Phillip's is playing his best football for us.  Barnes creativity has been encouraged and we have transitioned a squad used to playing in a dour defensive way and turned them into team scoring goals and occasionally playing scintillating football.   Oh, and by the way.......lets not forget the impact at the end of the year.  So no, not top two but a decent few months work.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on December 20, 2018, 07:49:51 PM
Agree to a point but am willing to bet that if at the end of the season we only keep 2or 3 clean sheets which is what we are on course to do we won't win promotion

While not disagreeing that the team needs to keep more clean sheets in the second half of the season, IMO to a certain extent there is an element of luck when keeping or not keeping the ball out of the net in any given game. In recent matches IMO we have looked pretty comfortable and sides have scored with virtually their first and possibly only chances.

On the other hand teams can keep clean sheets yet seriously ride their luck in doing so, in that the opposition can miss numerous chances. A good example of this is Leeds v Sheff Utd a few weeks back. Sheff Utd created more opportunities v Leeds than they did against us, yet Leeds kept the clean sheet.

Also, however well you defend, you can't legislate for a team scoring a fantastic goal which nothing could be done to prevent it. This was and is one of the big flaws in 'Pulisball' tactics. Nicking 1-0's is all well and good but with a little bit of luck going against you these results can easily swing the other way.

However there isn't a great deal of luck when it comes to being free-scoring, a team is either capable of putting the ball in the net frequently or it is not.

I would also add that apart from Middlesbrough, Leeds and possibly Forest, the other promotion chasing teams have defensive records that are not significantly different from Albion's. (I don't consider having 4,5, 6 goals less conceded over 20+ matches to be 'significant'.)

Score 2+ goals per game on average over the course of a season and a team will be unlucky to not be promoted come the seasons end. We're currently on track for that target.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie53 on December 20, 2018, 08:10:58 PM
While not disagreeing that the team needs to keep more clean sheets in the second half of the season, IMO to a certain extent there is an element of luck when keeping or not keeping the ball out of the net in any given game. In recent matches IMO we have looked pretty comfortable and sides have scored with virtually their first and possibly only chances.

OTOH teams can keep clean sheets yet seriously ride their luck in doing so, in that the opposition can miss numerous chances. A good example of this is Leeds v Sheff Utd a few weeks back. Sheff Utd created more opportunities v Leeds than they did against us, yet Leeds kept the clean sheet.

Also, however well you defend, you can't legislate for a team scoring a fantastic goal which nothing could be done to prevent it. This was and is one of the big flaws in 'Pulisball' tactics. Nicking 1-0's is all well and good but with a little bit of luck going against you these results can easily swing the other way.

However there isn't a great deal of luck when it comes to being free-scoring, a team is either capable of putting the ball in the net frequently or it is not.

I would also add that apart from Middlesbrough, Leeds and possibly Forest, the other promotion chasing teams have defensive records that are not significantly different from Albion's. (I don't consider having 4,5, 6 goals less conceded over 20+ matches to be 'significant'.)

Score 2+ goals per game on average over the course of a season and a team will be unlucky to not be promoted come the seasons end. We're currently on track for that target.

I might be a bit thick here but what's "OTOH"?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on December 20, 2018, 08:42:48 PM
46 clean sheets can get you relegated, but, never win you anything
scoring more than opposition can get you promoted - simples
That's 46 points
We would stay up
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 20, 2018, 08:48:17 PM
I might be a bit thick here but what's "OTOH"?


On the other hand.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on December 20, 2018, 10:50:08 PM
I might be a bit thick here but what's "OTOH"?
I think it’s something to do with being too lazy to type.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on December 20, 2018, 10:51:37 PM
I think it’s something to do with being too lazy to type.

One to add to the text speak list maybe
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on December 20, 2018, 10:52:55 PM
That's 46 points
We would stay up

Also known as the Pulis plan

How boring would that be ....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on December 21, 2018, 11:27:21 AM
Also known as the Pulis plan

How boring would that be ....

Middlesbrough are on line one.........  ;D .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on December 22, 2018, 05:34:13 PM
Best away run in a decade

50 goals already
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on December 22, 2018, 06:13:53 PM
I think it’s something to do with being too lazy to type.

I typed the post quick enough that I didn't even realise I'd typed it that way!

This afternoon illustrates my point however. We kept a clean sheet but it seems like Rotherham had several chances to score, including a penalty. Did the team deserve a clean sheet today but not against Brentford or Leeds? I would say no.

Man City conceded three today, and it sounds like at least one was a great strike. However well you set up these kind of strikes (and likewise terrible misses) can't be legislated for.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on December 23, 2018, 02:52:19 AM
Loving the fact that Darren Moore doesn't change a winning team. That's a real positive for me. He seems to believe in if you have the shirt and you perform you keep it and others have to wait for their chance whoever they are.

Players seem to be loving life at the Hawthorns. Every time you see them there seems to be a smile on every face and a spring in every step.

Fantastic.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BigFrank20 on December 23, 2018, 04:38:45 AM
How nice it is to not find this thread filled with moans and groans post match, well done Mr Moore it's an A+ for the season so far from me.
Keep up the good work
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on December 27, 2018, 08:21:04 AM
A bit quieter on here which suggests that there’s little for those who love to have a dig at Darren to see at the moment. No doubt they will be back when we next lose and tell us he’s not good enough and doesn’t speak with enough intelligence - but the results don’t provide that opportunity just yet.

As I’ve said consistently I think he’s doing a great job when you consider everything that he inherited from the monsters of Pulis and Pardew. An incredible turn around in club morale, pride and culture, team morale, playing style and now results. He’s still not happy and he still wants to improve but some of the issues are less glaring and the team is gradually refining the rough edges as Darren makes tactical switches both within games and between games to improve us and get the results.

Let’s hope we continue to see him learn and develop our team further.


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on December 27, 2018, 09:22:22 AM
A bit quieter on here which suggests that there’s little for those who love to have a dig at Darren to see at the moment. No doubt they will be back when we next lose and tell us he’s not good enough and doesn’t speak with enough intelligence - but the results don’t provide that opportunity just yet.

As I’ve said consistently I think he’s doing a great job when you consider everything that he inherited from the monsters of Pulis and Pardew. An incredible turn around in club morale, pride and culture, team morale, playing style and now results. He’s still not happy and he still wants to improve but some of the issues are less glaring and the team is gradually refining the rough edges as Darren makes tactical switches both within games and between games to improve us and get the results.

Let’s hope we continue to see him learn and develop our team further.

Great post and one that I totally agree with. I trust him to do the right thing in terms of team selection and in game management. I also trust that he will do all in his power to get a new right back when the window opens. Even the very limited Wigan team highlighted the need to do that yesterday.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on December 27, 2018, 09:58:16 AM
I know this is a bit weird, but,
I am actually enjoying having a manager who is not an ego, does not court the media, and is a football man.
I can unfortunately old enough to remember the days when we picked up a paper usually the Sports Argus and read "FOOTBALL" reports, who the line ups were, who played well, who didn't, how the vital moves developed etc, etc,
We were not subjected to page after page of Mourinhio this, Guardiola that.... ad nauseum, 
The reporters actually reported on the match not the pontifications of Pulis, Allardyce, Dyche or any other soundbite merchant they could rustle up.
As long as DM and his team keep trying to entertain and win games they will be alright by me,

Not to say I won't comment when I think they are missing a trick or slow to react to situations, if they makes me a bad fan as some seem to think then so be it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on December 27, 2018, 10:57:25 AM
Totally agree,who said Dave has to be eloquent?
He's a top bloke and he's one of us.
We can understand him that's good enough for me.
Since he took charge at back end of premier season and up till now,how many games has he lost?
Nuff said.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on December 27, 2018, 07:47:06 PM
I'm happy we're doing well, but I still see things from him that irk me.

Against Wigan I saw the team, and said to my mates "So what order are Robson-Kanu, Morrison, and Brunt coming on in?". Now granted there were valid reasons for the introduction of each this time, but the fact is that he goes for the same changes far too often.

He said a few weeks ago that the younger players need X number of games before you know what you're going to get from them - Rotherham would have been perfect to see Harper get a few minutes to see what he can do, but he's just making up the numbers. Field has been ignored since we lost back-to-back games, but that was Moore's fault, not his.

So yeah, it's good to see a manager who is effectively 'one of us' doing well, and we could easily be celebrating after 46/49 games. But he is still learning, and if I can pick up on his faults, I hope he will do too. I still see a few too many dinosaur traits though.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on December 27, 2018, 10:06:04 PM
I'm happy we're doing well, but I still see things from him that irk me.

Against Wigan I saw the team, and said to my mates "So what order are Robson-Kanu, Morrison, and Brunt coming on in?". Now granted there were valid reasons for the introduction of each this time, but the fact is that he goes for the same changes far too often.

He said a few weeks ago that the younger players need X number of games before you know what you're going to get from them - Rotherham would have been perfect to see Harper get a few minutes to see what he can do, but he's just making up the numbers. Field has been ignored since we lost back-to-back games, but that was Moore's fault, not his.

So yeah, it's good to see a manager who is effectively 'one of us' doing well, and we could easily be celebrating after 46/49 games. But he is still learning, and if I can pick up on his faults, I hope he will do too. I still see a few too many dinosaur traits though.


What are those? Playing attacking football with an expansive style while winning football matches.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on December 27, 2018, 10:14:34 PM
What are those? Playing attacking football with an expansive style while winning football matches.

I think his team's score far to many goals and he also keeps trying new things. Clearly to many players want to play for him as well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Westie on December 27, 2018, 11:29:02 PM
I am hoping that, for the Sheffield Wednesday game he starts Sako alongside JRod, although I expect that honour will go to HRK. I would also like to see Sam Field given another run out if and when he rests Gareth Barry. However, if that doesn’t happen I’ll just have to be happy with the win!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on December 28, 2018, 04:32:43 AM
I am hoping that, for the Sheffield Wednesday game he starts Sako alongside JRod, although I expect that honour will go to HRK. I would also like to see Sam Field given another run out if and when he rests Gareth Barry. However, if that doesn’t happen I’ll just have to be happy with the win!

I totally understand why you would want to see these two get some time - they are potentially two very good players. But to be frank I think it would be negligent to start Sako when he has done little to date and we are on such a strong run of form, and Field must be 6th choice in midfield at the moment? We have to do everything we can to get the points.

The cup team will be interesting though. I’d expect to see something if Sako at least.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on December 28, 2018, 10:31:44 AM
I have a certain amount of sympathy with Darren in terms of youngsters. Firstly I'll restate my view that the club has to develop young players capable of playing at Premier League level as a matter of routine if we are going to flourish as a club. As such the current crop should be able to hold their own at Championship level and therefore I am a little disappointed they are not getting game time.

However Darren has to survive as a Head Coach I don't. Given that a sequence of 4 games without a win triggered calls for his sacking (not widespread but they were out there) how many risks is it reasonable for him to take? Besides which his first XI are playing well. Long term you would want to see Field in for Barry but Barry is playing out of his skin right now. Leko/Burke for Barnes anyone? Harper for Livermore? Edwards for Phillips? At some point injuries suspensions and fatigue will kick in and we will need the youngsters but while we are playing well and accumulating points then Moore won't make changes for changes sake.

I suspect there will be wholesale changes for the cup game and I don't blame him one bit for that. With regard to Sako v HRK nothing that I have seen from Sako recently suggests that he is an ugrade on HRK who has done reasonably well whenever he has come into the side.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on December 28, 2018, 10:51:30 AM
He’s hopefully learning from his mistakes now, but I still cannot forget the awful decisions he has made thus far this season, playing 5 at the back for so long, keeping Brunt and Barkley in the team for so long etc. With the latter especially it was only them both being injured that prevented them being played against Leeds where things finally clicked, I do not doubt for a second that if they’d been fit, Darren wouldn’t have made the changes he did.

From my perspective, we should be top of this league so I can’t exactly call Darren a success thus far being 6 points off the top despite having the best squad.

As an aside for the mods, i do not understand the logic here sometimes. If someone like myself on a losing run had said ‘there’s not much noise from the happy clappers’ a nice 7 day ban would have come my way. Frazzle says the same in the other direction and nothing is mentioned? Bizarre
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tommcneill on December 28, 2018, 11:35:40 AM
He’s hopefully learning from his mistakes now, but I still cannot forget the awful decisions he has made thus far this season, playing 5 at the back for so long, keeping Brunt and Barkley in the team for so long etc. With the latter especially it was only them both being injured that prevented them being played against Leeds where things finally clicked, I do not doubt for a second that if they’d been fit, Darren wouldn’t have made the changes he did.

From my perspective, we should be top of this league so I can’t exactly call Darren a success thus far being 6 points off the top despite having the best squad.

As an aside for the mods, i do not understand the logic here sometimes. If someone like myself on a losing run had said ‘there’s not much noise from the happy clappers’ a nice 7 day ban would have come my way. Frazzle says the same in the other direction and nothing is mentioned? Bizarre

who says nothing has been said?

unless you are involved in the inner workings of the mod team then perhaps you shouldnt assume that nothing has been said to people.

Not everything is posted in the main forum, we do work behind the scenes aswell
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on December 28, 2018, 11:53:57 AM
who says nothing has been said?

unless you are involved in the inner workings of the mod team then perhaps you shouldnt assume that nothing has been said to people.

Not everything is posted in the main forum, we do work behind the scenes aswell

Bit like Spooks really isn't it?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on December 28, 2018, 03:21:57 PM
He’s hopefully learning from his mistakes now, but I still cannot forget the awful decisions he has made thus far this season, playing 5 at the back for so long, keeping Brunt and Barkley in the team for so long etc. With the latter especially it was only them both being injured that prevented them being played against Leeds where things finally clicked, I do not doubt for a second that if they’d been fit, Darren wouldn’t have made the changes he did.

From my perspective, we should be top of this league so I can’t exactly call Darren a success thus far being 6 points off the top despite having the best squad.

As an aside for the mods, i do not understand the logic here sometimes. If someone like myself on a losing run had said ‘there’s not much noise from the happy clappers’ a nice 7 day ban would have come my way. Frazzle says the same in the other direction and nothing is mentioned? Bizarre

The failed attempt to sign Tavernier left the team without a right back. Adaraboyio was played there against Forest and had a torrid time, from there on in DM reverted to the 5-3-2. I suspect the 5-3-2 was never DM's first choice system and was only utilised after having his hands tied regarding signings for much of the summer and Tosin's early performance in that position being inadequate.

To play the 5-3-2 meant that Bartley had to play and that the three centre backs had to adopt to a system they were perhaps unfamiliar with. It also meant Philips playing as a wing back. Calling this system a mistake is easy to do from the stands but there seems to be method to DM's madness when looking at the bigger picture.

Morrison and Brunt weren't playing due to injury etc. which meant the squad was stretched further, hence Brunt in the middle for a time.

As to having the best squad, I would say no, we don't. We may arguably have the best first XI, and a decent squad, but we lack that little bit of depth. The best squad wouldn't have to utilise an inexperienced CB at RB unless they had many injuries, which we do not.

Tosin has played at RB and done a solid job, but this is still far from an ideal solution in a position that I expect to see strengthened in the window. After that we may be closer to having the 'best squad'.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on December 28, 2018, 05:16:18 PM
He’s hopefully learning from his mistakes now, but I still cannot forget the awful decisions he has made thus far this season, playing 5 at the back for so long, keeping Brunt and Barkley in the team for so long etc. With the latter especially it was only them both being injured that prevented them being played against Leeds where things finally clicked, I do not doubt for a second that if they’d been fit, Darren wouldn’t have made the changes he did.

From my perspective, we should be top of this league so I can’t exactly call Darren a success thus far being 6 points off the top despite having the best squad.

As an aside for the mods, i do not understand the logic here sometimes. If someone like myself on a losing run had said ‘there’s not much noise from the happy clappers’ a nice 7 day ban would have come my way. Frazzle says the same in the other direction and nothing is mentioned? Bizarre

I think you must be in the minority of people that expect us to be on top of the league. You don’t believe we have the right manager and don’t seem to rate many in our squad so why would you expect us to be top. I’ll say it again, this is a tough and competitive league and given the nightmare he inherited I think he has done really well to be where we are at this stage of the season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on December 28, 2018, 05:23:20 PM
The failed attempt to sign Tavernier left the team without a right back. Adaraboyio was played there against Forest and had a torrid time, from there on in DM reverted to the 5-3-2. I suspect the 5-3-2 was never DM's first choice system and was only utilised after having his hands tied regarding signings for much of the summer and Tosin's early performance in that position being inadequate.

To play the 5-3-2 meant that Bartley had to play and that the three centre backs had to adopt to a system they were perhaps unfamiliar with. It also meant Philips playing as a wing back. Calling this system a mistake is easy to do from the stands but there seems to be method to DM's madness when looking at the bigger picture.

Morrison and Brunt weren't playing due to injury etc. which meant the squad was stretched further, hence Brunt in the middle for a time.

As to having the best squad, I would say no, we don't. We may arguably have the best first XI, and a decent squad, but we lack that little bit of depth. The best squad wouldn't have to utilise an inexperienced CB at RB unless they had many injuries, which we do not.

Tosin has played at RB and done a solid job, but this is still far from an ideal solution in a position that I expect to see strengthened in the window. After that we may be closer to having the 'best squad'.

Excellent post. I don’t think Tavernier will ever happen.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: telford baggie on December 28, 2018, 05:30:24 PM
A bit quieter on here which suggests that there’s little for those who love to have a dig at Darren to see at the moment. No doubt they will be back when we next lose and tell us he’s not good enough and doesn’t speak with enough intelligence - but the results don’t provide that opportunity just yet.

As I’ve said consistently I think he’s doing a great job when you consider everything that he inherited from the monsters of Pulis and Pardew. An incredible turn around in club morale, pride and culture, team morale, playing style and now results. He’s still not happy and he still wants to improve but some of the issues are less glaring and the team is gradually refining the rough edges as Darren makes tactical switches both within games and between games to improve us and get the results.

Let’s hope we continue to see him learn and develop our team further.
if he doesnt finish top 2 with the first team we have then he has failed in his position. we are a couple of injurys away from been an average team eg gayle and barnes who arent our players...i wouldnt trust moore with money to spend bartley rubbish, sj ok, mears hoolhan sako a joke. he is still getting alot of luck
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on December 28, 2018, 05:38:48 PM
if he doesnt finish top 2 with the first team we have then he has failed in his position. we are a couple of injurys away from been an average team eg gayle and barnes who arent our players...i wouldnt trust moore with money to spend bartley rubbish, sj ok, mears hoolhan sako a joke. he is still getting alot of luck

So he managed to keep the squad together to give us a first team that you think means we should be top 2 - yet you give him no credit. He signs Gayle and Barnes on loan - yet no credit for picking them and convincing them to come to us. What he does get is a hard time for the short term signings of Sako etc that have cost the club very little and were clearly signed to give the squad the depth we need in the short term.

Joke in my view. This is why I despair.

Now if you’d said that we shouldn’t have signed some of those players and instead utilised the youth a bit more then I’d have probably agreed with you.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on December 28, 2018, 05:59:10 PM
So he managed to keep the squad together to give us a first team that you think means we should be top 2 - yet you give him no credit. He signs Gayle and Barnes on loan - yet no credit for picking them and convincing them to come to us. What he does get is a hard time for the short term signings of Sako etc that have cost the club very little and were clearly signed to give the squad the depth we need in the short term.

Joke in my view. This is why I despair.

Now if you’d said that we shouldn’t have signed some of those players and instead utilised the youth a bit more then I’d have probably agreed with you.

I despair that you think it’s acceptable for a side that has 8 players who would walk in to every other first 11 in the league, to finish outside the top two.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on December 28, 2018, 06:32:10 PM
I despair that you think it’s acceptable for a side that has 8 players who would walk in to every other first 11 in the league, to finish outside the top two.

But no credit to him for keeping the squad together. Unbelievable.

Two things - I’d love to know who the 8 players are that you think would walk into any other team as many people on here, maybe even you I don’t know, don’t seem to rate any combination of our keeper, Hegazi, Tosin, Livermore, Brunt, JRod, Kanu, Burke. Very few wanted us to keep Morrison, we all thought Barry was unlikely to do much. Bartley had a poor start and his temporary signings have had a hard time. So other than maybe Gibbs, Barnes and Gayle - two of which were signed by Moore can I reminded you - who are the eight?

Now that Moore has got them performing really well have we suddenly reset expectations so that all he can do is get automatic or he has failed, and completely disregard what a great job he has done from turning them from the shambles they were last year to the top class, hard working and motivated team that they are now?

Also, I don’t know if you’ve noticed but sometimes the way a team is managed can have an impact on how they perform. Look at us last year. Look at Man Utd this year.

Did you think at the start of this season that we would walk the league as you now suggest we should?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 28, 2018, 06:42:54 PM
But no credit to him for keeping the squad together. Unbelievable.

Two things - I’d love to know who the 8 players are that you think would walk into any other team as many people on here, maybe even you I don’t know, don’t seem to rate any combination of our keeper, Hegazi, Tosin, Livermore, Brunt, JRod, Kanu, Burke. Very few wanted us to keep Morrison, we all thought Barry was unlikely to do much. Bartley had a poor start and his temporary signings have had a hard time. So other than maybe Gibbs, Barnes and Gayle - two of which were signed by Moore can I reminded you - who are the eight?

Now that Moore has got them performing really well have we suddenly reset expectations so that all he can do is get automatic or he has failed, and completely disregard what a great job he has done from turning them from the shambles they were last year to the top class, hard working and motivated team that they are now?

Also, I don’t know if you’ve noticed but sometimes the way a team is managed can have an impact on how they perform. Look at us last year. Look at Man Utd this year.

Did you think at the start of this season that we would walk the league as you now suggest we should?


This part I think is pretty obvious, all of the now preferred starting XI except the goalkeeper, Tosin and my assumption would be  Livermore.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on December 28, 2018, 07:16:58 PM

This part I think is pretty obvious, all of the now preferred starting XI except the goalkeeper, Tosin and my assumption would be  Livermore.

Weird. You can’t stand JRod :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on December 28, 2018, 07:41:21 PM
can we ban people from the forum who are coming out with drivel about moore not being good enough etc... stupid comments! we're 3rd!!!

Not a chance, its why the forum is here. If everyone had the same views then there would be no point in having a forum.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 28, 2018, 07:41:45 PM
Weird. You can’t stand JRod :)


Not really weird, my stance on Rodriguez is he isn't as good as Gayle who we are sidelining out wide to accommodate the inferior player, much like Hodgson stupidly did with our best player in the last 35 years, Peter Odemwingie (for Shane Long).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on December 28, 2018, 07:44:06 PM

Not really weird, my stance on Rodriguez is he isn't as good as Gayle who we are sidelining out wide to accommodate the inferior player, much like Hodgson stupidly did with our best player in the last 35 years, Peter Odemwingie (for Shane Long).

You were on JRods back for most of his time with us if I remember but never mind. And there’s no way odemwingie was our best player of the last 35 years - you’ve forgotten Kevin Steggles.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on December 28, 2018, 10:13:18 PM

Not really weird, my stance on Rodriguez is he isn't as good as Gayle who we are sidelining out wide to accommodate the inferior player, much like Hodgson stupidly did with our best player in the last 35 years, Peter Odemwingie (for Shane Long).

Odemwingie still played a fair bit under hodgson.
Steve Clarke completely bombed him out for long and the on loan Lukaku.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 28, 2018, 10:44:33 PM
Odemwingie still played a fair bit under hodgson.
Steve Clarke completely bombed him out for long and the on loan Lukaku.


Yes he did wide right...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Westie on December 29, 2018, 12:37:20 AM
I think Darren Moore is a great bloke and I am so pleased that we are doing well. I don’t care how he comes across to some people in interviews, he is Albion through and through. So pleased to have him than some other merry-go-round manager with no affinity to our Club. If you said to me before the season that we would be third after Christmas, I would have been sceptical. Why are some people moaning? We have had more entertainment and goals this season than in the last two or three put together. Yes, occasionally we’ll slip up but overall, there is much to celebrate. Just go and enjoy it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on December 29, 2018, 09:14:06 AM
It was just a joke. Kevin Steggoes, Barry Cowdrill, Stuart Evans, etc all from the mid to late 80s when I started following Albion. There was also a big striker called George Riley I think. Every one of them appalling and I remember sitting in the old family stand at the corner of the halfords and the brummie hearing fans refer to Stuart Evans as 'the plank'. It took Brian Talbots arrival to give me any sense of what success must be like.

Jacko is from roughly the same era as me so it was just a joke. Not winding anyone up.
I think his comment/question was aimed at 59 rather than you.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on December 29, 2018, 11:04:59 AM
Played 6 games in the prem.
Played 24 in championship.
Total under Dave 30 matches.
Lost 6.
when you think of the turmoil the club was in with Pulis and Pardew ,he has performed his job in a remarkable and humble way and to be 3rd in the league at halfway is a fantastic effort by him and his team of coaches.
Well played and thanks for the entertainment mate.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on December 29, 2018, 11:20:42 AM
Excellent post. I don’t think Tavernier will ever happen.

Neither do I, but I expect a right back (no idea who) to be brought in in the coming weeks.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on December 29, 2018, 11:48:43 AM
I despair that you think it’s acceptable for a side that has 8 players who would walk in to every other first 11 in the league, to finish outside the top two.

Gayle, Philips, Barnes and possibly Gibbs (in that order of likelihood) are probably the only players you could say would 'walk' into any side in the division.

Hegazi, Dawson, Barry, Livermore and Johnstone are as good as what just about anybody else has in their team, but none would walk into Stoke's or Middlesbrough's first XI's, for example. IMO Stoke are as strong as us in defence and while our wingers are stronger and we have a better striker, they are likewise (with Allen, Woods, Etebo and Clucas) better than us in central midfield. We could easily have been sitting where they are currently if DM had not carried out such a superb job, make no mistake about it.

If the club finish the season with a 2 point per game average on 92 points they will be very unlucky to not be promoted. They're are currently only 4 points off that, but I expect them to do slightly better in the second half of the season than they did in the first, so I think they will just reach that target.

That we are in such a good position is in many ways remarkable and DM deserves immense credit for that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on December 29, 2018, 12:10:16 PM
Gayle, Philips, Barnes and possibly Gibbs (in that order of likelihood) are probably the only players you could say would 'walk' into any side in the division.

Hegazi, Dawson, Barry, Livermore and Johnstone are as good as what just about anybody else has in their team, but none would walk into Stoke's or Middlesbrough's first XI's, for example. IMO Stoke are as strong as us in defence and while our wingers are stronger and we have a better striker, they are likewise (with Allen, Woods, Etebo and Clucas) better than us in central midfield.


Randolf, Flint, Ayala, Fry - Boro’s defence and keeper on Boxing Day.  Dawson, Hegazi, Johnstone all play in that.

I have literally looked through all the starting line ups from Boxing Day. Stoke have the most players who I think would get in our side with 4, the keeper and three central midfielders (not as a three but as individuals).. Dawson and hegazi definitely play over Shawcross and Williams though who are spent.



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on December 29, 2018, 05:34:56 PM
Moore's greatest coaching strength seems to be the charatcer his sides show. The character at the end of last season has carried over into the first half of this season, with us never being finished until the final whistle goes.

Some of his tactical decisions are just plain not working, his squad selection at times being the main culprit, and I feel only a select group of players stand any chance of getting game time under him (the academy seems redundant), but we are 5 points off the top and 2 off the automatic places going in to 2019.

He is doing a lot better than I expected. Just hope we can keep Gayle fit, keep Barnes full stop and aquire 2 or 3 new players in January. If we do all of the above, there is every chance we could go up this year in one of the most competetive divisions i've ever seen.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on December 29, 2018, 06:18:16 PM
Our squad is limited, not so much the first eleven, who are all of a decent standard at this level, but by depth. Our bench never looks up to much really, so I will expect a bit of a blip once injuries and suspensions kick in, which they are starting to do now. Nevertheless, this isn't DM's fault as he inherited the squad. Our loans have generally been of a good standard and, as we didn't have much of a scouting system and no assistant manager at the end of last season, I think DM has to take credit for these as well.
It takes time to adapt to the Championship as many relegated teams have found out. We finished below Stoke and Swansea remember, and we find ourselves 11 and 13 points ahead of these two teams, despite them spending more money than us. As a bonus, we are also above Villa.
We have had to put up with dreadful entertainment and hopeless ineptitude respectively under our last 2 managers, leaving the team in poor shape before DM took over. In a short space of time he has fixed both the entertainment and ineptitude problems, and has us playing effective football which is very good to watch, even if it is a bit heart in mouth on occasions. The players seem happy and are playing as a team again.
As has been said many times by DM himself, we are a work in progress, but he has done remarkably well so far.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on December 29, 2018, 06:26:52 PM
Matt Wilson Twitter account:

Owls caretaker Lee Bullen on Moore's triple sub. "He did it with us at home as well. He took of his two top scorers and we were thinking 'what's he doing?' But they came back and drew 2-2. He works his subs alright!"
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: glosterbaggie on December 29, 2018, 06:31:08 PM
Our squad is limited, not so much the first eleven, who are all of a decent standard at this level, but by depth. Our bench never looks up to much really, so I will expect a bit of a blip once injuries and suspensions kick in, which they are starting to do now. Nevertheless, this isn't DM's fault as he inherited the squad. Our loans have generally been of a good standard and, as we didn't have much of a scouting system and no assistant manager at the end of last season, I think DM has to take credit for these as well.
It takes time to adapt to the Championship as many relegated teams have found out. We finished below Stoke and Swansea remember, and we find ourselves 11 and 13 points ahead of these two teams, despite them spending more money than us. As a bonus, we are also above Villa.
We have had to put up with dreadful entertainment and hopeless ineptitude respectively under our last 2 managers, leaving the team in poor shape before DM took over. In a short space of time he has fixed both the entertainment and ineptitude problems, and has us playing effective football which is very good to watch, even if it is a bit heart in mouth on occasions. The players seem happy and are playing as a team again.
As has been said many times by DM himself, we are a work in progress, but he has done remarkably well so far.
Great post.I could not have put it better.He has had to deal with a very difficult situation. I really hope the "Board" back him in January.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on December 29, 2018, 06:35:21 PM
Matt Wilson Twitter account:

Owls caretaker Lee Bullen on Moore's triple sub. "He did it with us at home as well. He took of his two top scorers and we were thinking 'what's he doing?' But they came back and drew 2-2. He works his subs alright!"
"last roll of the dice" triple subs are all very well, but he doesn't seem to like making adjustments - I don't want to be too critical, I love the team spirit he has got going, so it's an A- from me generally.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on December 29, 2018, 06:35:58 PM
Our squad is limited, not so much the first eleven, who are all of a decent standard at this level, but by depth. Our bench never looks up to much really, so I will expect a bit of a blip once injuries and suspensions kick in, which they are starting to do now. Nevertheless, this isn't DM's fault as he inherited the squad. Our loans have generally been of a good standard and, as we didn't have much of a scouting system and no assistant manager at the end of last season, I think DM has to take credit for these as well.
It takes time to adapt to the Championship as many relegated teams have found out. We finished below Stoke and Swansea remember, and we find ourselves 11 and 13 points ahead of these two teams, despite them spending more money than us. As a bonus, we are also above Villa.
We have had to put up with dreadful entertainment and hopeless ineptitude respectively under our last 2 managers, leaving the team in poor shape before DM took over. In a short space of time he has fixed both the entertainment and ineptitude problems, and has us playing effective football which is very good to watch, even if it is a bit heart in mouth on occasions. The players seem happy and are playing as a team again.
As has been said many times by DM himself, we are a work in progress, but he has done remarkably well so far.
I actually think we should be doing a lot better, first he persisted with a formation that wasn't working then he fell into a 433 after a drubbing by Derby. Second he persisted with Brunt in central midfield when we never employed him in his prime. Third his insistence on playing Gayle out wide to accommodate an ineffective Rodriguez fourth lack of using his bench to rest our more influential players
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on December 29, 2018, 06:59:27 PM
I actually think we should be doing a lot better, first he persisted with a formation that wasn't working then he fell into a 433 after a drubbing by Derby. Second he persisted with Brunt in central midfield when we never employed him in his prime. Third his insistence on playing Gayle out wide to accommodate an ineffective Rodriguez fourth lack of using his bench to rest our more influential players
Let me re-write your post from a slightly more positive perspective.

I actually think we are doing way better than many people expected. When he found that his first choice formation wasn't working, he gave it a decent chance to improve and then changed it to 433 which worked much better. He tried Brunt in central midfield and persisted with him there because he was of the strong opinion that Brunt could play that role. However, he was big enough to admit that he was wrong eventually and now only plays him there if we have injuries or suspensions. He tried to accommodate both Gayle and Rodriguez into the team, as they are our best goal scorers. In the 433 that works for us, this means one of them has to play less centrally, which isn't ideal but is worth a try. In an ideal world, I'm sure he would like to rotate the squad more but is limited by the lack of depth in it, which will hopefully be addressed in January, with further strengthening in the summer.

All about interpretation and expectations. You're focusing on the things that could be improved (which is perfectly fine), whilst I'm focusing on the massive strides we have made in half a season. There's no reason to think that we won't continue to progress, if folk can just have a bit of patience.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on December 29, 2018, 07:04:43 PM
Moore's greatest coaching strength seems to be the charatcer his sides show. The character at the end of last season has carried over into the first half of this season, with us never being finished until the final whistle goes.

Some of his tactical decisions are just plain not working, his squad selection at times being the main culprit, and I feel only a select group of players stand any chance of getting game time under him (the academy seems redundant), but we are 5 points off the top and 2 off the automatic places going in to 2019.

He is doing a lot better than I expected. Just hope we can keep Gayle fit, keep Barnes full stop and aquire 2 or 3 new players in January. If we do all of the above, there is every chance we could go up this year in one of the most competetive divisions i've ever seen.

With regard to your point about the academy if I was in charge of it I would have resigned immediately after the Rotherham away game when he chose not to give Harper at least 10 mins at the end preferring Brunt and Morrison instead . It must have been heartbreaking for the kid . If we can’t bring a kid on when four up then there’s not much hope for the academy despite the club having told us how wonderful it is for the last 10 years .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on December 29, 2018, 07:22:37 PM
Let me re-write your post from a slightly more positive perspective.

I actually think we are doing way better than many people expected. When he found that his first choice formation wasn't working, he gave it a decent chance to improve and then changed it to 433 which worked much better. He tried Brunt in central midfield and persisted with him there because he was of the strong opinion that Brunt could play that role. However, he was big enough to admit that he was wrong eventually and now only plays him there if we have injuries or suspensions. He tried to accommodate both Gayle and Rodriguez into the team, as they are our best goal scorers. In the 433 that works for us, this means one of them has to play less centrally, which isn't ideal but is worth a try. In an ideal world, I'm sure he would like to rotate the squad more but is limited by the lack of depth in it, which will hopefully be addressed in January, with further strengthening in the summer.

All about interpretation and expectations. You're focusing on the things that could be improved (which is perfectly fine), whilst I'm focusing on the massive strides we have made in half a season. There's no reason to think that we won't continue to progress, if folk can just have a bit of patience.

Never has been, never will be a centre midfielder, i've been banging the drum for over 9 years since it was first tried in a friendly at Coventry under RDM, didn't work then, hasn't worked in any game under any manager. Darren Moore has seen enough of those from the sideline yet even now persists with it when he has better and more natural options on the bench whether that be Hoolahan and Harper today or Field on other occasions. Shoehorning a bloke in for set-pieces which to be honest have dropped off massively in recent seasons are not a good enough reason.

He needs to start trusting the kids and realise this is a squad game not just a 14 man game. Its the only fault I have with Darren Moore (apart from the distaster that is Bartley), he needs to start trusting others. Field has done well in the Premier League in the midfield yet Moore has given him very little chance this season in that position. If he don't rate him or the others send them out on loan and stick a 16 year old on the bench to fill the role of the youngster we have to put in there.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on December 29, 2018, 08:19:46 PM
of the past 3 managers we've had i thought Moore would be the most likely to involve the younger players with him having spent a time coaching the youths with  James Shan. We had Field and Leko getting game time in the premiership and would naturally have thought they'd both develop into 1st team players but it seems they're careers have stalled. include Harper and Burke with those two and obvious they ain't going to get used much here, may aswel loan them out to get more experience.personally I think we've wasted what talent the academy has produced for a long time and makes we wonder if it's worth all the investment it gets.
we've got two ex academy players playing for league leaders Leeds as an example.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on December 29, 2018, 08:25:16 PM
He hasn't yet learned that picking your mates does not work.
Brunt should take over the tea lady's role at the best.
Morrison needs to be rested for at least 4 matches at a time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on December 30, 2018, 10:36:38 AM
Never has been, never will be a centre midfielder, i've been banging the drum for over 9 years since it was first tried in a friendly at Coventry under RDM, didn't work then, hasn't worked in any game under any manager. Darren Moore has seen enough of those from the sideline yet even now persists with it when he has better and more natural options on the bench whether that be Hoolahan and Harper today or Field on other occasions. Shoehorning a bloke in for set-pieces which to be honest have dropped off massively in recent seasons are not a good enough reason.

He needs to start trusting the kids and realise this is a squad game not just a 14 man game. Its the only fault I have with Darren Moore (apart from the distaster that is Bartley), he needs to start trusting others. Field has done well in the Premier League in the midfield yet Moore has given him very little chance this season in that position. If he don't rate him or the others send them out on loan and stick a 16 year old on the bench to fill the role of the youngster we have to put in there.
As it happens, I totally agree with you. Brunt, Morrison and Bartley are not good enough and I would also be picking one of the kids over any of these 3 if any of our first team is injured or suspended. OK they might struggle a bit but proper playing time is the only way they will truly improve, My post was just trying to balance that of the previous poster who seemed to think that DM was doing a poor job, despite all the evidence pointing the other way.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on December 30, 2018, 12:03:13 PM
After Edwards played so well (it was either reading or Blackburn) I would have thought
A he would be on the bench more
B he would be a natural replacement for Phillips if injured/rested

Yes we are third blah blah and yes most would have taken that blah blah , but we have a right to an opinion and mine I see that whilst Darren may be one of us , he is not utilising what he has to its maximum
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on December 30, 2018, 12:10:17 PM
of the past 3 managers we've had i thought Moore would be the most likely to involve the younger players with him having spent a time coaching the youths with  James Shan. We had Field and Leko getting game time in the premiership and would naturally have thought they'd both develop into 1st team players but it seems they're careers have stalled. include Harper and Burke with those two and obvious they ain't going to get used much here, may aswel loan them out to get more experience.personally I think we've wasted what talent the academy has produced for a long time and makes we wonder if it's worth all the investment it gets.
we've got two ex academy players playing for league leaders Leeds as an example.
i wanted Darren to get the job not just for the final 6 games in prem but because of his association with our youth teams and players. Really disappointed in use of any of these players especially not giving them run outs when games are won. A club like ours, with this owner will not spend money on players so our best option is to develop these youngsters. If we get promoted it wouldn't surprise me to see the likes of Brunt, Morrison and Barry involved in our first team squad with a bunch of 30 plus freebies drafted in.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on December 30, 2018, 12:18:24 PM
v Sheffield,a baffling starting line up,why not start with Barry and Phillips and kanu.ok Bartley in for Heigazi was a forced change,but the others,Barry gets better with more game time,so bring him off when we are winning,Sheffield were there for the taking,he should have rested players at Blackburn,were we probably aren't going to get anything,Sako looked lively first half though,we would walk this league with an experienced manager,virtually every other teams forum says this too
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 30, 2018, 12:21:39 PM
Sako was awful.


The time to make changes was Rotherham or Wigan.


Nevertheless another point closer to the top two.


We should get ahead of Norwich in the next 2 games.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on December 30, 2018, 12:49:35 PM
v Sheffield,a baffling starting line up,why not start with Barry and Phillips and kanu.ok Bartley in for Heigazi was a forced change,but the others,Barry gets better with more game time,so bring him off when we are winning,Sheffield were there for the taking,he should have rested players at Blackburn,were we probably aren't going to get anything,Sako looked lively first half though,we would walk this league with an experienced manager,virtually every other teams forum says this too

Why will we probably get nothing there?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on December 30, 2018, 01:14:36 PM
Randolf, Flint, Ayala, Fry - Boro’s defence and keeper on Boxing Day.  Dawson, Hegazi, Johnstone all play in that.

I have literally looked through all the starting line ups from Boxing Day. Stoke have the most players who I think would get in our side with 4, the keeper and three central midfielders (not as a three but as individuals).. Dawson and hegazi definitely play over Shawcross and Williams though who are spent.

On reflection perhaps I have misjudged how far the quality a player like Williams has fallen so you may be correct in that case. The pairing of Ayala and Flint at the back for Middlesbrough is immense though and their defensive record is indicative of the quality they have at the back for this level than anything Pulis has done for them tactically. I just don't agree that the Hegazi and Dawson partnership are that far ahead of them that they would 'walk' into their team.

Middlesbrough and Stoke (if Rowett had not ostracised Bauer) also have better right backs than Albion and their respective keepers are on a level with Johnstone. I think Gibbs is excellent but Friend and Pieters are not as far behind him in quality as you may think.

Even with just one of our back four missing we start to look more than just a little less formidable. I wouldn't say that's the sign of a strong squad. How did our back four look with just Hegazi missing? Would Tosin or Bartley 'walk' into the defence Middlesbrough played today, or even Stokes? No way.

We have a strong first XI and on song are capable of hammering any team in this league, but we lack depth. A right back and bolstering the bench is imperative in January to capitalise on the position we are in.

Edit to add as lost my overall point: It seems some are taking our position for granted. I believe DM has carried out an excellent job considering the circumstances and talent within the squad. When you consider where the quality of team/squad was when he took over compared to where teams such as Middlesbrough and Stoke were (and are) it illustrates how well he has done. There is no reason we could not have been languishing in mid-table at this point if he hadn't made so many correct decisions since his appointment. The quality within the squad (certainly at the end of last season) was far from a given and to suggest anything less than a top 2 means DM has failed does his work a great disservice.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on December 30, 2018, 01:17:18 PM
Lads, can we stick to discussing Darren Moore please not who has the best centre halves etc.

If you want to discuss that then start a topic in the General Sports forum
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on December 30, 2018, 05:43:06 PM
With regard to your point about the academy if I was in charge of it I would have resigned immediately after the Rotherham away game when he chose not to give Harper at least 10 mins at the end preferring Brunt and Morrison instead . It must have been heartbreaking for the kid . If we can’t bring a kid on when four up then there’s not much hope for the academy despite the club having told us how wonderful it is for the last 10 years .

I struggled myself with that decision. Was screaming for him to come on.

As Keemar Roofe and Romaine Sawyers have shown, players who get game time can develop into something. Roofe is currently the third top scorer in the league and arguably one of the best players currently outside the top flight. He did all of this within a few years of leaving Albion.

We need to prove to the likes of Izzy Brown, Yan Dhanda, Jerome Sinclair, George Thorne, Tyler Roberts and any others thinking of moving on that they are better placed here than moving elsewhere, and yet we are proving to be even worse than the big clubs at giving youth a chance.

Gutted that Moore has no faith in them.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 01, 2019, 06:02:40 PM
Well there were fans calling Sheff Wed as 1pt gained we've now lost at Blackburn.  For me he was complacent pre Sheff Wed and it's cost us.

Playing Brunt, Mozza, Barry together was an absolute joke. 

Subs today?  What was it all about.

5 months in he should know his best team.  Everyone thought he'd settled on something and he goes and screws it up.

How can any WBA fan be happy now behind Sheff Utd?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on January 01, 2019, 06:13:06 PM
Well there were fans calling Sheff Wed as 1pt gained we've now lost at Blackburn.  For me he was complacent pre Sheff Wed and it's cost us.

Playing Brunt, Mozza, Barry together was an absolute joke. 

Subs today?  What was it all about.

5 months in he should know his best team.  Everyone thought he'd settled on something and he goes and screws it up.

How can any WBA fan be happy now behind Sheff Utd?

Not happy, but not wetting the bed either at our first loss in two months. He has a team that is clearly lacking depth on the bench and at the right back position. The later has already been addressed and Moore has hinted he is still looking to strengthen.

The youth are closer to the first team than they ever has been and are training regular with the first team. So to say he does not give them a chance is not true. I trust his judgement on when he thinks they are ready to have a go and none have yet staked a a claim on a first team place when given a game in the cups. I'm sure the youth will be played in the cup and any that do stake a place will be given a chance.  We now have a great chance to get the first team rested and recovered for the Norwich game where we will try and do the double on them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on January 01, 2019, 06:19:15 PM
Not happy, but not wetting the bed either at our first loss in two months. He has a team that is clearly lacking depth on the bench and at the right back position. The later has already been addressed and Moore has hinted he is still looking to strengthen.

The youth are closer to the first team than they ever has been and are training regular with the first team. So to say he does not give them a chance is not true. I trust his judgement on when he thinks they are ready to have a go and none have yet staked a a claim on a first team place when given a game in the cups. I'm sure the youth will be played in the cup and any that do stake a place will be given a chance.  We now have a great chance to get the first team rested and recovered for the Norwich game where we will try and do the double on them.

Sorry but have to disagree with this, last season Field played a part and never let us down, this season he has hardly had a sniff, got hung out basically after his one appearance in the middle after being messed around as a centre half in the cup. The others get a placed on the bench just to fill the gap we have to have of a home grown youngster there. He will play some in nthe cup this weekedn but after having no action other than the odd reserve game then none will be up to it to force themselves in. They need game time, Harper should have been on at Rotherham when he brought Brunt on for Barry.

They will make mistakes but those currently in the team are also making mistakes, they are experienced pros making those mistakes so obviously kids will, its how they learn from them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 01, 2019, 06:21:52 PM
Not happy, but not wetting the bed either at our first loss in two months. He has a team that is clearly lacking depth on the bench and at the right back position. The later has already been addressed and Moore has hinted he is still looking to strengthen.

The youth are closer to the first team than they ever has been and are training regular with the first team. So to say he does not give them a chance is not true. I trust his judgement on when he thinks they are ready to have a go and none have yet staked a a claim on a first team place when given a game in the cups. I'm sure the youth will be played in the cup and any that do stake a place will be given a chance.  We now have a great chance to get the first team rested and recovered for the Norwich game where we will try and do the double on them.


Mate in fairness you are looking at the big picture.  I'm addressing the last 2 fixtures where we have been a disaster.  Where do we go from here?

We have too many players and it's a case of too many cooks.  Look what Megson achieved with a squad of 20 it's Night and Day.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wbarenno on January 01, 2019, 06:39:35 PM
Mate in fairness you are looking at the big picture.  I'm addressing the last 2 fixtures where we have been a disaster.  Where do we go from here?

We have too many players and it's a case of too many cooks.  Look what Megson achieved with a squad of 20 it's Night and Day.

Obviously Megsons achievements were huge but the championship then compared to the championship now is a totally different league all together. It’s so much more competitive now, back then teams coming down from the prem would go straight back up now that isn’t the case because the league is so competitive. It’s basically a premier league 2 now . Two totally different times for the league so you can’t compare the two in my opinion
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on January 01, 2019, 06:40:17 PM
Mate in fairness you are looking at the big picture.  I'm addressing the last 2 fixtures where we have been a disaster.  Where do we go from here?

We have too many players and it's a case of too many cooks.  Look what Megson achieved with a squad of 20 it's Night and Day.

Hopefully we get Gayle and Hegazi back and Holgate will fix the RB problem but with Livermore out, I fear we will see the immobile Brunt/Barry midfield. I hope Field get a chance to prove him self in the cup.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 01, 2019, 06:46:31 PM
Not happy, but not wetting the bed either at our first loss in two months. He has a team that is clearly lacking depth on the bench and at the right back position. The later has already been addressed and Moore has hinted he is still looking to strengthen.

The youth are closer to the first team than they ever has been and are training regular with the first team. So to say he does not give them a chance is not true. I trust his judgement on when he thinks they are ready to have a go and none have yet staked a a claim on a first team place when given a game in the cups. I'm sure the youth will be played in the cup and any that do stake a place will be given a chance.  We now have a great chance to get the first team rested and recovered for the Norwich game where we will try and do the double on them.
Sorry, but Darren is doing A "Pulis" and becoming intransient. Totally a stick in the mud who can't remove blinkers.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: koren on January 01, 2019, 06:48:11 PM
Sorry but have to disagree with this, last season Field played a part and never let us down, this season he has hardly had a sniff, got hung out basically after his one appearance in the middle after being messed around as a centre half in the cup. The others get a placed on the bench just to fill the gap we have to have of a home grown youngster there. He will play some in nthe cup this weekedn but after having no action other than the odd reserve game then none will be up to it to force themselves in. They need game time, Harper should have been on at Rotherham when he brought Brunt on for Barry.

They will make mistakes but those currently in the team are also making mistakes, they are experienced pros making those mistakes so obviously kids will, its how they learn from them.
It makes me feel strange that Brunt failed to impress at central midfield since day 1 but still can keep his place.
Field lost his place immediately after defeated by Hull City in November and even left out of the 18-man squad since then.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 01, 2019, 06:50:29 PM
Sorry, but Darren is doing A "Pulis" and becoming intransient. Totally a stick in the mud who can't remove blinkers.


I assume you mean intransigent (unless of course Big Dave has signed a lifetime contract)?


Think we need to face it, Sam Field and the rest of the young players just aren't very good. It's a shame, but it is what it is.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on January 01, 2019, 06:53:10 PM
Sorry but have to disagree with this, last season Field played a part and never let us down, this season he has hardly had a sniff, got hung out basically after his one appearance in the middle after being messed around as a centre half in the cup. The others get a placed on the bench just to fill the gap we have to have of a home grown youngster there. He will play some in nthe cup this weekedn but after having no action other than the odd reserve game then none will be up to it to force themselves in. They need game time, Harper should have been on at Rotherham when he brought Brunt on for Barry.

They will make mistakes but those currently in the team are also making mistakes, they are experienced pros making those mistakes so obviously kids will, its how they learn from them.

I disagree too , the club has spun this academy for as long as I can remember yet rarely gives kids a sustained chance, and when they do get a chance they are messed around ( field , Edwards ) and then we get almost an entire team of academy kids against Mansfield then nothing for months , it’s poor man management regardless of how old they are .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 01, 2019, 06:53:50 PM

I assume you mean intransigent (unless of course Big Dave has signed a lifetime contract)?


Think we need to face it, Sam Field and the rest of the young players just aren't very good. It's a shame, but it is what it is.
I thank you for the correction about my spelling.
Cheers Kidda.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 01, 2019, 07:15:15 PM
Darren Moore is fast becoming Brexit, if you try and voice an opinion you are either
A, wanting to be his lover whilst wearing rose tinted spectacles
Or
B, a social disgrace who degrades a club legend

Well, I'm not anti Moore (I'm anti villa)
And I'm not pro Moore (I'm pro Albion)

The football generally is better than the last couple of years , the goal celebrations are multiply increased and yes he is one of our own
But
Continually the subs and selections don't add up, HRK has been the go to Sub almost every game but when Gayle was out ...Sako starts
Sako starts despite not having any game time in the last 6 matches when bringing him on would have been easy and without risk
Brunt centre midfield....stop it , it's embarrassing
Edwards, pretty bloody good against reading.....then invisible
Field last year, then humiliated at left back ?

Something is not right, maybe we need an experience DOF , but if I was in charge of the cheque book , I'm not sure I'd let him loose
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on January 01, 2019, 07:40:33 PM
Darren Moore is fast becoming Brexit, if you try and voice an opinion you are either
A, wanting to be his lover whilst wearing rose tinted spectacles
Or
B, a social disgrace who degrades a club legend

Well, I'm not anti Moore (I'm anti villa)
And I'm not pro Moore (I'm pro Albion)

The football generally is better than the last couple of years , the goal celebrations are multiply increased and yes he is one of our own
But
Continually the subs and selections don't add up, HRK has been the go to Sub almost every game but when Gayle was out ...Sako starts
Sako starts despite not having any game time in the last 6 matches when bringing him on would have been easy and without risk
Brunt centre midfield....stop it , it's embarrassing
Edwards, pretty bloody good against reading.....then invisible
Field last year, then humiliated at left back ?

Something is not right, maybe we need an experience DOF , but if I was in charge of the cheque book , I'm not sure I'd let him loose

Can't argue with any of it mate
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 01, 2019, 07:48:39 PM
Sheff Utd have gained 5pts on us in last 2 fixtures thereby eroding much of the damage from our Brammall Lane win.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on January 01, 2019, 07:57:21 PM
Think we have been bang average under Moore in this league and I don't see any dynamic play from us what so ever. Two loan players have covered up the cracks of an average coaching staff, Leeds at home is the onlytimethat Albion have played the whole game as the dominant force.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 01, 2019, 07:59:03 PM
Think we have been bang average under Moore in this league and I don't see any dynamic play from us what so ever. Two loan players have covered up the cracks of an average coaching staff, Leeds at home is the onlytimethat Albion have played the whole game as the dominant force.
Leeds
Stoke
Norwich
Qpr
Wigan

We were pretty comfortable with all these
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 01, 2019, 08:00:29 PM
Darren Moore is fast becoming Brexit, if you try and voice an opinion you are either
A, wanting to be his lover whilst wearing rose tinted spectacles
Or
B, a social disgrace who degrades a club legend

Well, I'm not anti Moore (I'm anti villa)
And I'm not pro Moore (I'm pro Albion)

The football generally is better than the last couple of years , the goal celebrations are multiply increased and yes he is one of our own
But
Continually the subs and selections don't add up, HRK has been the go to Sub almost every game but when Gayle was out ...Sako starts
Sako starts despite not having any game time in the last 6 matches when bringing him on would have been easy and without risk
Brunt centre midfield....stop it , it's embarrassing
Edwards, pretty bloody good against reading.....then invisible
Field last year, then humiliated at left back ?

Something is not right, maybe we need an experience DOF , but if I was in charge of the cheque book , I'm not sure I'd let him loose
Agree entirely, you could not make it up could you. The exclusion of Field, Harper, and Edwards is downright criminal 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on January 01, 2019, 08:04:50 PM
Leeds
Stoke
Norwich
Qpr
Wigan

We were pretty comfortable with all these
Gayle and Barnes played in these games if memory is correct?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on January 01, 2019, 08:05:26 PM
Agree entirely, you could not make it up could you. The exclusion of Field, Harper, and Edwards is downright criminal
Why is it downright criminal? Do you have access to the training ground and see them day in day out and know for a fact what they are doing should guarantee them a starting place? Thought not so why not leave it to those who are in that position?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 01, 2019, 08:29:30 PM
Why is it downright criminal? Do you have access to the training ground and see them day in day out and know for a fact what they are doing should guarantee them a starting place? Thought not so why not leave it to those who are in that position?
You could argue that persisting with brunt in centre midfield and refusing to replace obviously tired legs with subs ...is criminal , regardless of training
Maybe even that if the same players are outstanding in training but then repeatedly fail when it matters, more reason to try different ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Westie on January 01, 2019, 08:30:36 PM
Well, the fans know best, don’t we? I suggest a supporters panel to sit on the morning of every match day to consider team selections. At the end of the meeting the panel would inform Big Dave of his team.............

..........lol
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnnyg on January 01, 2019, 08:32:50 PM
People would want to get a serious grip on reality here.  Rewind to before DM was given the job.  Many on here wanted Dean Smith, plenty others wanted Gary Rowett.
Take a read of The Oatcake tonight.. its venomous towards Rowett. He ain't up to it, we escaped big-time there.
And admittedly it might still be early days for Smith at Villa, but there's been no new manager bounce, and he doesn't seem to have instigated any major revolution in their style or substance.
We are well in the mix, and after the absolute shambles that was last season, we need to give DM every chance.
If he fails, he fails, but lets not lose sight of the bigger picture.
And Gary Rowett is a good example of where we might have been. And lots of you on here wanted him in, lets not ignore that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 01, 2019, 08:38:34 PM
People would want to get a serious grip on reality here.  Rewind to before DM was given the job.  Many on here wanted Dean Smith, plenty others wanted Gary Rowett.
Take a read of The Oatcake tonight.. its venomous towards Rowett. He ain't up to it, we escaped big-time there.
And admittedly it might still be early days for Smith at Villa, but there's been no new manager bounce, and he doesn't seem to have instigated any major revolution in their style or substance.
We are well in the mix, and after the absolute shambles that was last season, we need to give DM every chance.
If he fails, he fails, but lets not lose sight of the bigger picture.
And Gary Rowett is a good example of where we might have been. And lots of you on here wanted him in, lets not ignore that.

Football is a simple game.

I've no doubt that many outsiders could make a fist of it. 

But they will not get the gig so it is irrelevant.

For the record Rowett is poor as was Pardew last season.

Just think it's crucial WBA get promoted this season.  To do it errors from management need to be minimised.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Westie on January 01, 2019, 08:44:24 PM
DM has done a better job than many on here expected. I seem to remember that some were full of doom and gloom in the Summer, predicting that we would ‘do a Sunderland’ and suffer another relegation to League One. I think most of would have been more than happy at the start of the season if we knew that we would be in the position that we are now.

Sadly, though, I believe that should we go back up, Mr Lai would seek to recoup his ‘investment’ and then dispose of the Club. I honestly can’t see him putting in enough money to give us a chance of staying up. So, enjoy this season while it lasts.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 01, 2019, 08:51:42 PM
DM has done a better job than many on here expected. I seem to remember that some were full of doom and gloom in the Summer, predicting that we would ‘do a Sunderland’ and suffer another relegation to League One. I think most of would have been more than happy at the start of the season if we knew that we would be in the position that we are now.

Sadly, though, I believe that should we go back up, Mr Lai would seek to recoup his ‘investment’ and then dispose of the Club. I honestly can’t see him putting in enough money to give us a chance of staying up. So, enjoy this season while it lasts.

Who knows what Lai will do?  Get promoted and worry about it later.  A failed promotion will result in our best players lost.  The same process the Villa have gone through amongst others.  Then it's advantage the 3 relegated from the Premier in May.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on January 01, 2019, 09:09:18 PM
Not his greatest day but in general he's doing a good job. We have a pretty poor and overpaid squad which limited his backing. His reliance on these senior players and his lack of variety from the bench do hurt big dave. But he's done wonders with a club that's been run in the cheap and has been in a downward spin since Clarke left.

The test of the man is how he bounces back. Last time v Leeds it was very impressive
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 01, 2019, 09:21:49 PM
Why is it downright criminal? Do you have access to the training ground and see them day in day out and know for a fact what they are doing should guarantee them a starting place? Thought not so why not leave it to those who are in that position?
No-one should be guaranteed a starting place , and that really is the problem. The three youngsters that I named have not been given opportunities and I have personally seen sufficient of them to believe that they should have been given more.
You do not have to be a qualified coach to recognise talent, and I have seen some appalling individual performances from some our senior players which basically should have made their positions untenable but "those who are in that position" have not been brave enough to give youth it's chance. The treatment of Sam Field in particular is disgraceful, and the continued selection of Chris Brunt may ultimately cost Darren Moore his job. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on January 01, 2019, 11:37:46 PM
No-one should be guaranteed a starting place , and that really is the problem. The three youngsters that I named have not been given opportunities and I have personally seen sufficient of them to believe that they should have been given more.
You do not have to be a qualified coach to recognise talent, and I have seen some appalling individual performances from some our senior players which basically should have made their positions untenable but "those who are in that position" have not been brave enough to give youth it's chance. The treatment of Sam Field in particular is disgraceful, and the continued selection of Chris Brunt may ultimately cost Darren Moore his job.
I agree with some of your points, but none of us know what goes on at the club there as got to be a reason why Sam Field doesn't get game time but we will never get the real reasons why he doesn't. To be honest though what I have seen of him i havent really been impressed. My main gripe (not at you) is that people want him to make changes then when he does they say he shouldn't have changed it. IMO our squad isn't great and Darren as done a great job with the players he inherited and as turned it around and got them playing and seemingly enjoying it I am enjoying what I'm watching! And finally I backed us to win the championship at the start of the season and I stick by it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Brummie Road on January 02, 2019, 07:17:25 AM
I'm just bemused that some are having a dig at DM as we sit just below an automatic promotion place at the start of the New Year. I'm really unsure about what more he could have done at this stage considering the resources available to him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on January 02, 2019, 08:29:38 AM
I'm just bemused that some are having a dig at DM as we sit just below an automatic promotion place at the start of the New Year. I'm really unsure about what more he could have done at this stage considering the resources available to him.

I think some fans believe we should be rolling over every team we play (which isn't going to happen).

This board is a lot calmer than the WBA facebook group, we only have to go 1-0 down on there and its mayhem.

DM has got my backing and in my opinion he is doing a good job. Let's not forget how much of a mess this club has been in behind the scenes, he's had to deal with a lot of stuff which a normal 'head coach' probably wouldn't have to get involved in.

Just to put it out there, if you are on of the fans who doesn't want Big Dave in charge, tell me who you would prefer in charge at this stage of the season (Admin - if that's not allowed, then people are more than welcome to private message me their options), as having a look at the 'out of managers' category, doesn't make for too many options.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 02, 2019, 09:21:34 AM
If Moore picks the best players then we still have a good chance of winning the league.

For those calling for Jenkins to dig deep i think he has the right to instruct Moore to cut the wage bill first.  We have big earners not doing it.

Does Moore have the courage to be ruthless now?  We could probably shed 4/5 which would allow another 2/3 in addition to Holgate.  We've come through the busiest period it'll be back to 1 game every 7 days now for the most part.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on January 02, 2019, 10:03:15 AM
I think there are a lot of misconceptions around our club at present, in that:

We have the best squad in the league. We simply do not. We have too many ageing players who are past their best, or younger ones who are simply over-rated

We have a crop of super youngsters that are being ignored. We simply do not. The likes of Edwards and Harper have done nothing to suggest they are at this level and, if anything, Leko has proved he probably is not. Burke is a complete enigma, but, again, has done nothing to suggest he could contribute anything significant. Only Field can feel genuinely aggrieved at his lack of opportunity as he has done little wrong when given a chance.

We are financially superior to our competitors. Whilst true, to a degree, as long as Jenkins is in charge our purse strings will be tight.

Considering all of the above, I think Moore is doing a very decent job and to anyone who suggests a different manager would be winning the league at a cantor, my question would be who, and how?
There are more experienced and higher profile managers, working with similar squads and similar budgets, below us in the table and I fail to see what anyone could do differently with this squad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 02, 2019, 10:14:02 AM
I think there are a lot of misconceptions around our club at present, in that:

We have the best squad in the league. We simply do not. We have too many ageing players who are past their best, or younger ones who are simply over-rated

We have a crop of super youngsters that are being ignored. We simply do not. The likes of Edwards and Harper have done nothing to suggest they are at this level and, if anything, Leko has proved he probably is not. Burke is a complete enigma, but, again, has done nothing to suggest he could contribute anything significant. Only Field can feel genuinely aggrieved at his lack of opportunity as he has done little wrong when given a chance.

We are financially superior to our competitors. Whilst true, to a degree, as long as Jenkins is in charge our purse strings will be tight.

Considering all of the above, I think Moore is doing a very decent job and to anyone who suggests a different manager would be winning the league at a cantor, my question would be who, and how?
There are more experienced and higher profile managers, working with similar squads and similar budgets, below us in the table and I fail to see what anyone could do differently with this squad.


Sorry but i just don't agree.

1) RE: Best squad.  I give you Gibbs best LB in division.  Dawson/Hegazi arguably best CB pairing.  Barry high class midfielder for this division.  JRod, Gayle, Barnes all walk into other teams.
2) Are you happy with Bartley and Brunt being given 1527 and 1227 mins respectively whilst Barry has been underused?
3) Why are Norwich, Leeds and Sheff U above us.  Sheff U on particular are very ordinary.
4) The jury is out on Darren Moore.  Why should Jenkins have to bring in more players with so many underused?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on January 02, 2019, 10:24:31 AM
I think if you look at the 3 relegated sides, ourselves Stoke and Swansea I suspect only ourselves will feature in the shake up for promotion in the 2nd half of the season. They are very much our peers having similar resources and unfortunately have all been relegated following lengthy albeit increasingly joyless spells in the Premier League.

All 3 clubs started the season in need of a reboot with newly appointed managers. If I am honest I cast an envious glance at Swansea's appointment of Potter but I was never on Rowett bandwagon. The 3 clubs have been faced with similar challenges of regrouping after terrible seasons with fanbases which are still bruised from the experience and in fairly unforgiving moods.

Swansea moved their squad on and I suspect that those they retained were only done so because there weren't buyers for them. They have turned to youth and accepted that this season is one of transition. Stoke on the other hand have largely retained their squad and in terms of numbers have actually added to it. We have retained the bulk of the squad and really only replaced those that have left.

Whatever the merits or demerits of the squads the fact remains that only one of these teams is currently in contention and that is the one managed by Darren Moore in his first full season as a Head Coach.

I have seen some abosolute tripe on social media on along the lines of "if manager x was in charge of the Albion then we would be 10 points clear" fine perfectly happy with posters inhabiting whichever alternative reality they feel comfortable in but it is seldom as straight forward as that.

I can easily pick holes in some of his decision making but no Head Coach on this earth sends out his players to make the basic errors (I don't care where they are playing be that their favoured position or not) that have cost us points this season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 02, 2019, 10:31:39 AM
Enough is enough I'll draw a line under last 2 games.

20 games to go.  We know what players have performed and who has failed.  It is now up to Moore to find a settled unit to hit the Top 2.  If he picks his favourites from here who fail to deliver there really is no one else to blame.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on January 02, 2019, 10:45:33 AM
Sorry but i just don't agree.

1) RE: Best squad.  I give you Gibbs best LB in division.  Dawson/Hegazi arguably best CB pairing.  Barry high class midfielder for this division.  JRod, Gayle, Barnes all walk into other teams.
2) Are you happy with Bartley and Brunt being given 1527 and 1227 mins respectively whilst Barry has been underused?
3) Why are Norwich, Leeds and Sheff U above us.  Sheff U on particular are very ordinary.
4) The jury is out on Darren Moore.  Why should Jenkins have to bring in more players with so many underused?
1) If 3 of our regular back 4 are the best in the division, why do we keep so few clean sheets? Are you seriously saying that is purely down to Moore? Barry is 37, whilst his class is undeniable, his legs are on the way out and he cannot play every game. I agree on Gayle and Barnes, not so much J-Rod but the fact that we are the top scorers in the division suggest Moore is using them perfectly.
2) Agree completely re Brunt and Bartley, but Moore has addressed this since moving to 433, with neither starting until forced by injury. The fact that we signed a CH / RB as soon as the window opened suggests Moore is aware of the Bartley issue. 
3) I don't watch Norwich, Leeds and Sheff Utd every week but their league positions suggest their managers are doing an exceptional job, as does ours. There are 20 teams below us and only 3 above. I think you've made my point better than I did.
4) I don't see how the jury is out, as you pointed out above, there are only 3 managers who can reasonably claim to be doing a better job, at this moment in time, so the transfer window should be used to address problem areas and give us the impetus to challenge top 2.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on January 02, 2019, 10:47:55 AM
Enough is enough I'll draw a line under last 2 games.

20 games to go.  We know what players have performed and who has failed.  It is now up to Moore to find a settled unit to hit the Top 2.  If he picks his favourites from here who fail to deliver there really is no one else to blame.

The key to us hitting top 2 is keeping Gayle fit.

The chances that we aren't taken or are coming close to taking, Gayle usually finishes.

Its those fine lines in games which is where he would win us the points.

Keep Gayle, Rodriguez, Phillps, Barnes and Barry fit and we should be top 2.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on January 02, 2019, 10:48:48 AM
I'm just bemused that some are having a dig at DM as we sit just below an automatic promotion place at the start of the New Year. I'm really unsure about what more he could have done at this stage considering the resources available to him.

Bang on.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on January 02, 2019, 10:51:46 AM
1) If 3 of our regular back 4 are the best in the division, why do we keep so few clean sheets? Are you seriously saying that is purely down to Moore? Barry is 37, whilst his class is undeniable, his legs are on the way out and he cannot play every game. I agree on Gayle and Barnes, not so much J-Rod but the fact that we are the top scorers in the division suggest Moore is using them perfectly.
2) Agree completely re Brunt and Bartley, but Moore has addressed this since moving to 433, with neither starting until forced by injury. The fact that we signed a CH / RB as soon as the window opened suggests Moore is aware of the Bartley issue. 
3) I don't watch Norwich, Leeds and Sheff Utd every week but their league positions suggest their managers are doing an exceptional job, as does ours. There are 20 teams below us and only 3 above. I think you've made my point better than I did.
4) I don't see how the jury is out, as you pointed out above, there are only 3 managers who can reasonably claim to be doing a better job, at this moment in time, so the transfer window should be used to address problem areas and give us the impetus to challenge top 2.
Two very sensible posts, well argued, can't really disagree with anything in them,
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 02, 2019, 11:17:32 AM
Bielsa, Farke and Wilder are undeniably doing better than Moore with available resources.

Moore great player, nice bloke but I judge him as a Manager.

This Norwich match is now critical.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on January 02, 2019, 11:26:45 AM
I think its worth saying that DM will be getting advised by the physios who can play / when / how long. He has to balance this with getting his best team on the pitch.
If he had a squad of capable young chaps then the problem would be less difficult than the crop of geriatrics he has to choose from. We are struggling to understand the reluctance to use the kids who are inexperienced (thats likely why he's reluctant), the big issue is we have so little of the in between bracket (22-28 year olds).

DM is trying to maintain a balance thats difficult and doing OK, cut him some slack.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on January 02, 2019, 01:04:30 PM
I think there are a lot of misconceptions around our club at present, in that:

We have the best squad in the league. We simply do not. We have too many ageing players who are past their best, or younger ones who are simply over-rated

We have a crop of super youngsters that are being ignored. We simply do not. The likes of Edwards and Harper have done nothing to suggest they are at this level and, if anything, Leko has proved he probably is not. Burke is a complete enigma, but, again, has done nothing to suggest he could contribute anything significant. Only Field can feel genuinely aggrieved at his lack of opportunity as he has done little wrong when given a chance.

We are financially superior to our competitors. Whilst true, to a degree, as long as Jenkins is in charge our purse strings will be tight.

Considering all of the above, I think Moore is doing a very decent job and to anyone who suggests a different manager would be winning the league at a cantor, my question would be who, and how?
There are more experienced and higher profile managers, working with similar squads and similar budgets, below us in the table and I fail to see what anyone could do differently with this squad.

This is an extremely good post and I agree almost entirely with it. I have just highlighted the comment about Field. He is a local lad who is proud to wear the shirt. However, I have yet to be impressed by him and, in my opinion, his lack of pace alone means he will never become a top player. I think Darren is doing an extremely good job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on January 02, 2019, 01:26:45 PM
Getting anything at Blackburn was going to be very difficult,even if Gayle and Hegazi were fit,this should have been the rest the players game,not Sheffield Wednesday at home,it is these stupid decisions that is costing us
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on January 02, 2019, 01:28:27 PM
Why will we probably get nothing there?
that's exactly what I said in my post,and we were both right
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on January 02, 2019, 03:24:13 PM
I have to say  I'm a bit shocked by the amount of stick Moore gets every sticky result we have , some of it is way over the top IMO especially the dreaded social media sites.
The club itself has been run like an absolute shambles the last 18 months which for me ended up with cut backs and Summer training camps involving a few first teamers , loads of kids and three or four trialists well past their sell by dates . To add to that we've had to boost the squad after that deadline with Mears , Wes and Sako .
Two of those are well into their 30's and the other had a career threatening injury , what other team aiming for promotion has to do that ? . I can only hope better quality comes in this next month.
Don't get me wrong , Moore has made mistakes like every novice will and not bringing Sako or Harper on at Rotherham stood out much like the Jones lead 3 at the back which I hope never returns .
Given the mess we were in in my view he's done well , not perfect by any means but not worth some of the stick flying around at times in my humble .
Just to add I understand the frustration with the kids but frankly I don't think some are up to it now and if the club hadn't got in such a tangle then some of them like Field and Harper should have been sent out on loan . I blame the club for that and the silly EFL rule about loans and the window , not Moore .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on January 02, 2019, 03:33:37 PM
I have to say  I'm a bit shocked by the amount of stick Moore gets every sticky result we have , some of it is way over the top IMO especially the dreaded social media sites.
The club itself has been run like an absolute shambles the last 18 months which for me ended up with cut backs and Summer training camps involving a few first teamers , loads of kids and three or four trialists well past their sell by dates . To add to that we've had to boost the squad after that deadline with Mears , Wes and Sako .
Two of those are well into their 30's and the other had a career threatening injury , what other team aiming for promotion has to do that ? . I can only hope better quality comes in this next month.
Don't get me wrong , Moore has made mistakes like every novice will and not bringing Sako or Harper on at Rotherham stood out much like the Jones lead 3 at the back which I hope never returns .
Given the mess we were in in my view he's done well , not perfect by any means but not worth some of the stick flying around at times in my humble .


Spot on mate.

For me its plain to see Sako, Wes and Mears were signed as squad fillers as he had probably missed out/been let down on his priority targets.

You only have to look at his signings to date to know that the 3 above don't fit in that mould (add to that they have hardly featured, Mears has featured the most due to being the only option).

Look at Gayle, Barnes, Townsend, Tosin, Johnstone, Holgate - all of those are the right side of 30, with majority of them being young players who have got a bright future.

Also look at the other targets he went for, Bobby Reid - again young and hungry. Its  clear to see what type of player he wanted to bring in.

The mess this club was in and the amount of work DM would have had to take on, on top of this being his first crack at management and the lack of an assistant for the summer, he deserves a lot more credit for the position we now find ourselves in.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on January 02, 2019, 03:40:36 PM

Spot on mate.

For me its plain to see Sako, Wes and Mears were signed as squad fillers as he had probably missed out/been let down on his priority targets.

You only have to look at his signings to date to know that the 3 above don't fit in that mould (add to that they have hardly featured, Mears has featured the most due to being the only option).

Look at Gayle, Barnes, Townsend, Tosin, Johnstone, Holgate - all of those are the right side of 30, with majority of them being young players who have got a bright future.

Also look at the other targets he went for, Bobby Reid - again young and hungry. Its  clear to see what type of player he wanted to bring in.

The mess this club was in and the amount of work DM would have had to take on, on top of this being his first crack at management and the lack of an assistant for the summer, he deserves a lot more credit for the position we now find ourselves in.
Agreed , the only one I'd flag up is Bartley so far but he was never suited to a three and I've seen him play well enough in a four elsewhere .
This was his first Xmas as a manager in a league where the games come thick and fast with an ageing squad and very little quality outside the first 11 to 13 players , he needs backing from the board and help from Dowling if we want to go up .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on January 02, 2019, 03:50:04 PM
Agreed , the only one I'd flag up is Bartley so far but he was never suited to a three and I've seen him play well enough in a four elsewhere .
This was his first Xmas as a manager in a league where the games come thick and fast with an ageing squad and very little quality outside the first 11 to 13 players , he needs backing from the board and help from Dowling if we want to go up .

I knew I had forgot someone. Even when we signed Bartley, myself like many others would have said it was a solid signing, on paper it was an experienced centre back with knowledge of the league and Leeds wanted to keep him.

I think the back 3 formation has killed his confidence, but that's for another thread.

Like you said, lets just hope he gets a bit more backing from the board this window.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Xpresso on January 02, 2019, 04:00:41 PM
He’s naturally right footed and not happy playing on the left. The transition isn’t easy when you’ve played on the right all your career. Having said that, he does look slow at times and for a man his size easily knocked off the ball
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 02, 2019, 04:36:43 PM
1) No one adequately answered why selection mistakes have been this bad.  I listed respective gametime afforded to each player.
2) No one has justified that the squads of the Top 3 are superior to ours.
3) We are operating at a huge financial advantage thanks to £100m prize money for being in the Prem.

Why should we settle for scraping the play offs.  Talk about a lack of confidence and ambition.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on January 02, 2019, 04:39:46 PM
He’s naturally right footed and not happy playing on the left. The transition isn’t easy when you’ve played on the right all your career. Having said that, he does look slow at times and for a man his size easily knocked off the ball

I keep reading this but he played the majority of games during his time at Leeds on the left of a central two alongside Pontus Jansson.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 02, 2019, 04:55:03 PM
I keep reading this but he played the majority of games during his time at Leeds on the left of a central two alongside Pontus Jansson.


He's woeful end of. Worse than the likes of Raven and Strodder.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on January 02, 2019, 05:14:25 PM

He's woeful end of. Worse than the likes of Raven and Strodder.

I wish the best for any Albion player and always hope to see improvement over time. That said I'm really not a fan of his either. Despite the odd moment in games nothing's changed for me on that score from the moment I watched him against Aberdeen. I've never really thought of him in comparison to Raven and Strodder before. Frightening :-X .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: halifax_baggie on January 02, 2019, 05:17:07 PM

He's woeful end of. Worse than the likes of Raven and Strodder.

But not as bad as Stacey North :P
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on January 02, 2019, 06:25:47 PM
I think he's overused Barnes, he should have been given a game off over Xmas he's looking jaded.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on January 02, 2019, 06:54:59 PM
I think he's overused Barnes, he should have been given a game off over Xmas he's looking jaded.
Over used? He's a young lad who should be fit enough to play at least 3 times a week.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on January 02, 2019, 09:19:18 PM
Over used? He's a young lad who should be fit enough to play at least 3 times a week.
He is fit enough to play 3 games a week....but don't expect him to be sharp all that time and to stay sharp through the season. There's a longer term mental side to things and playing at a high level the recovery/preparation time between games is very important.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on January 02, 2019, 10:25:44 PM
He is fit enough to play 3 games a week....but don't expect him to be sharp all that time and to stay sharp through the season. There's a longer term mental side to things and playing at a high level the recovery/preparation time between games is very important.
I agree, physically fit enough yes, and I'm sure he'll tell Moore he's up for it, but that's not all there is to it
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on January 03, 2019, 12:17:56 AM
1) No one adequately answered why selection mistakes have been this bad.  I listed respective gametime afforded to each player.
2) No one has justified that the squads of the Top 3 are superior to ours.
3) We are operating at a huge financial advantage thanks to £100m prize money for being in the Prem.

Why should we settle for scraping the play offs.  Talk about a lack of confidence and ambition.

Spot on. Overall his team selection has been poor, his substitutions have been awful. We've played somwhere between poor and mediocre in most games, good in 4 or 5. The fact that we're still well-placed for promotion shows 2 things, the lack of any standout teams in the league and the quality we have in certain areas that the majority of teams haven't got access to.

I was expecting us to fight for 2nd at the start of the season, but because Stoke appointed one of the worst managers they could have gone for, we should have had a clear run at the title. Overall, I'd say we're slightly underachieving this season. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on January 03, 2019, 12:28:55 AM
Spot on. Overall his team selection has been poor, his substitutions have been awful. We've played somwhere between poor and mediocre in most games, good in 4 or 5. The fact that we're still well-placed for promotion shows 2 things, the lack of any standout teams in the league and the quality we have in certain areas that the majority of teams haven't got access to.

I was expecting us to fight for 2nd at the start of the season, but because Stoke appointed one of the worst managers they could have gone for, we should have had a clear run at the title. Overall, I'd say we're slightly underachieving this season.
agree with your post, we should be peeing this league as the football is tripe. Moore has produced one good performance against Leeds where team has played to its potential, but his inability to sort out his defence and his insistence on using Brunt in midfield for so long was infuriating.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on January 03, 2019, 12:57:42 PM
It would appear that the standpoint on whether Darren Moore is doing well, indifferent or poor this year depends very much on interpretation of the quality of squad we have. 

Those who think we have by far the best squad in the division full of seven or eight Premier League quality players who would walk into any team in the Division understandably think we should be walking away with the league and anything but Top Two would be a disappointment.

Others (including myself) recognise that the majority of these players were the ones relegated, which puts a question mark against that quality.  They also recognise that a good squad is all about balance and requires energy and pace as well as experience.  They have also watched a number of these players over a period of years now and made up their own minds on the relative quality on display.

I agree that missing out on promotion this year would be disappointing, but i think we are at least three (if Holgate comes off) or four players short of being good enough to pull away top two.  And i don't think the missing players need necessarily be Premier League standard, but more so in the 23-28 bracket with legs, pace hunger and an attacking instinct.  Unfortunately i don't see these players arriving in January as the market offers no value*, so promotion will be as much a lottery for us as other teams around the top 6 based on injuries and suspensions to our best players (Gayle and Phillips particularly). 

*The other argument is that we should be top two based on our financial clout.  I think it has been made clear that we have spend what we earned from our time in the Premier League (£200k + per week for Sturridge and the Pole) and we have no more clout than other clubs around the top 10 that do get bankrolled.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on January 03, 2019, 01:08:33 PM
It would appear that the standpoint on whether Darren Moore is doing well, indifferent or poor this year depends very much on interpretation of the quality of squad we have. 

Those who think we have by far the best squad in the division full of seven or eight Premier League quality players who would walk into any team in the Division understandably think we should be walking away with the league and anything but Top Two would be a disappointment.

Others (including myself) recognise that the majority of these players were the ones relegated, which puts a question mark against that quality.  They also recognise that a good squad is all about balance and requires energy and pace as well as experience.  They have also watched a number of these players over a period of years now and made up their own minds on the relative quality on display.

I agree that missing out on promotion this year would be disappointing, but i think we are at least three (if Holgate comes off) or four players short of being good enough to pull away top two.  And i don't think the missing players need necessarily be Premier League standard, but more so in the 23-28 bracket with legs, pace hunger and an attacking instinct.  Unfortunately i don't see these players arriving in January as the market offers no value*, so promotion will be as much a lottery for us as other teams around the top 6 based on injuries and suspensions to our best players (Gayle and Phillips particularly). 

*The other argument is that we should be top two based on our financial clout.  I think it has been made clear that we have spend what we earned from our time in the Premier League (£200k + per week for Sturridge and the Pole) and we have no more clout than other clubs around the top 10 that do get bankrolled.


Hegazi, Gibbs, Barry, Phillips, Barnes and Gayle are massive for us. If we lose even one we get affected. Anyone else we can sort of bodge around, those six are real, genuine Premier League quality and they carry us to a huge extent. Some will disagree on Gayle but he's never played in a front foot Premier League team that compliments him.

Then, outside the (first choice) first eleven the bench is average even by Championship standards. The likes of Mears / Hoolahan / Bartley / Sako / Burke / Robson - Kanu are a huge downgrade and shouldn't be at the club if we expect to be genuine Premier League material. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on January 03, 2019, 01:44:27 PM
It would appear that the standpoint on whether Darren Moore is doing well, indifferent or poor this year depends very much on interpretation of the quality of squad we have. 

Those who think we have by far the best squad in the division full of seven or eight Premier League quality players who would walk into any team in the Division understandably think we should be walking away with the league and anything but Top Two would be a disappointment.

Others (including myself) recognise that the majority of these players were the ones relegated, which puts a question mark against that quality.  They also recognise that a good squad is all about balance and requires energy and pace as well as experience.  They have also watched a number of these players over a period of years now and made up their own minds on the relative quality on display.

I agree that missing out on promotion this year would be disappointing, but i think we are at least three (if Holgate comes off) or four players short of being good enough to pull away top two.  And i don't think the missing players need necessarily be Premier League standard, but more so in the 23-28 bracket with legs, pace hunger and an attacking instinct.  Unfortunately i don't see these players arriving in January as the market offers no value*, so promotion will be as much a lottery for us as other teams around the top 6 based on injuries and suspensions to our best players (Gayle and Phillips particularly). 

*The other argument is that we should be top two based on our financial clout.  I think it has been made clear that we have spend what we earned from our time in the Premier League (£200k + per week for Sturridge and the Pole) and we have no more clout than other clubs around the top 10 that do get bankrolled.

I think we have the best first XI in the division: 4-3-3 lining up with Jonhstone, Holgate, Gibbs, Dawson, Hegazi, Livermore, Barry, Philips, Barnes, Rodriguez, Gayle. Our bench is limited though, and it is this that needs reinforcing in the window. We need another defender (probably a RB) and a couple of energetic, attack minded midfielders to give us options off the bench/cover for injuries. If we can do that by the end of January, let Mears and Hoolahan go while perhaps loaning out Burke and Field at the same time, we will be in great shape to go for a top 2 finish.

I think DM has done a fantastic job and we are superbly placed for the run in, but his success so far for me means the goalposts for the rest of the season have now changed. If we keep the first XI fit from here on in I expect a 2 point per game average, perhaps even slightly better and that should see us finish in the top 2.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on January 03, 2019, 02:01:26 PM
It would appear that the standpoint on whether Darren Moore is doing well, indifferent or poor this year depends very much on interpretation of the quality of squad we have. 

Those who think we have by far the best squad in the division full of seven or eight Premier League quality players who would walk into any team in the Division understandably think we should be walking away with the league and anything but Top Two would be a disappointment.

Others (including myself) recognise that the majority of these players were the ones relegated, which puts a question mark against that quality.  They also recognise that a good squad is all about balance and requires energy and pace as well as experience.  They have also watched a number of these players over a period of years now and made up their own minds on the relative quality on display.

I agree that missing out on promotion this year would be disappointing, but i think we are at least three (if Holgate comes off) or four players short of being good enough to pull away top two.  And i don't think the missing players need necessarily be Premier League standard, but more so in the 23-28 bracket with legs, pace hunger and an attacking instinct.  Unfortunately i don't see these players arriving in January as the market offers no value*, so promotion will be as much a lottery for us as other teams around the top 6 based on injuries and suspensions to our best players (Gayle and Phillips particularly). 

*The other argument is that we should be top two based on our financial clout.  I think it has been made clear that we have spend what we earned from our time in the Premier League (£200k + per week for Sturridge and the Pole) and we have no more clout than other clubs around the top 10 that do get bankrolled.

If we mark it on squads then hes doing a great job in my opinion. Whilst we have a handful of players who could play in the premier league, we also have a handful of championship players.

I would say Stoke and Villa arguably have better squads, with the likes of Boro being on a par with us.

Stoke were many pundits favourites to run away with this league, and Rowett was a manager a fair few baggies fans wanted, we are doing much better than them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on January 03, 2019, 02:03:55 PM
I get the youth issue some have with Moore as there's nothing better than one of your own even if our last turned into a spoilt brat . While I'd love to see some come through I do understand its Moore job on the line , this could be his one go at a decent job let alone a lower league gig .Thats the harsh reality and I think one reason he sticks with the tried and tested , I'm pretty sure if he'd had a better squad in the Summer our better hopes would have been out on loan.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on January 03, 2019, 02:07:07 PM
If we mark it on squads then hes doing a great job in my opinion. Whilst we have a handful of players who could play in the premier league, we also have a handful of championship players.

I would say Stoke and Villa arguably have better squads, with the likes of Boro being on a par with us.

Stoke were many pundits favourites to run away with this league, and Rowett was a manager a fair few baggies fans wanted, we are doing much better than them.
You can add Forest to the better squad list too , great mix of young talent , older heads and stylish players .
For me our first 11 match anybody , the squad however is far from it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 03, 2019, 04:16:35 PM
So why has Moore seen fit to give Bartley 1500 mins with mistake after mistake?

Similarly, Brunt whilst not as bad as Bartley  has ruined the midfield's effectiveness, limiting goal scoring chances.

This can be sought from the training ground.  Even if they had a short run in matches Moore didn't pick up on it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on January 03, 2019, 04:32:18 PM
So why has Moore seen fit to give Bartley 1500 mins with mistake after mistake?

Similarly, Brunt whilst not as bad as Bartley  has ruined the midfield's effectiveness, limiting goal scoring chances.

This can be sought from the training ground.  Even if they had a short run in matches Moore didn't pick up on it.
Mistake after mistake is stretching it plus he isn't going to sign someone and ditch him 3 games in , lets not forget Dawson was nowhere to be seen for a long spell and by several accounts Hegazi wanted out too .
Brunt wouldn't my choice in the middle  yet without him coming on against Villa that equaliser doesn't happen.
As I've said to you before if you expect a rookie manager to have all the answers from day one I think you will be asking too much , this isn't Football Manager , Fifa 1 to 19 or Subbuteo.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 03, 2019, 05:18:42 PM
You just make excuses for him.

Our strongest spell was prior to Xmas including wins over Sheff U and Leeds which yielded over 2pts per game.

We are better than all the other teams on the basis that Moore selects the best team match after match.  Can ee trust him to do it until May?

I don't want to hear anyone talking up other teams it's just nonsense.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on January 03, 2019, 06:44:05 PM
You just make excuses for him.

Our strongest spell was prior to Xmas including wins over Sheff U and Leeds which yielded over 2pts per game.

We are better than all the other teams on the basis that Moore selects the best team match after match.  Can ee trust him to do it until May?

I don't want to hear anyone talking up other teams it's just nonsense.

One person's nonsense is another person's opinion.   We have a good first 11 but not  without weaknesses. 

For example, we have no right back but a fantastic attacking left back however he is still prone to defensive lapses,  we have an England international midfielder with a good engine but a VERY limited passing range, our best midfielder is 37 and our only AM is injury prone and been at the club a few years to long.  An in form Matty Phillips is a beast and can be unplayable but he does have real dips in form throughout a season, Jrod is a good attacker but not an instinctive finisher and Barnes could be heading back next week.   Johnstone is still learning his trade and struggles to come off his line and in front of him are the best CB pairing in the division who are still struggling to keep a clean sheet.   I like HRK for his energy but........

I agree that both Bartley and CM Brunty should NOT have had the game time but they are both the kind of experienced pros that most managers would try and lean on.

Despite this if we can get Gayle fit and bring in a few more additions of quality I think we can still go up top two.   Just my own opinion or bit of nonsense dependent on perspective.  COYB
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 03, 2019, 06:54:11 PM
One person's nonsense is another person's opinion.   We have a good first 11 but not  without weaknesses. 

For example, we have no right back but a fantastic attacking left back however he is still prone to defensive lapses,  we have an England international midfielder with a good engine but a VERY limited passing range, our best midfielder is 37 and our only AM is injury prone and been at the club a few years to long.  An in form Matty Phillips is a beast and can be unplayable but he does have real dips in form throughout a season, Jrod is a good attacker but not an instinctive finisher and Barnes could be heading back next week.   Johnstone is still learning his trade and struggles to come off his line and in front of him are the best CB pairing in the division who are still struggling to keep a clean sheet.   I like HRK for his energy but........

Despite this if we can get Gayle fit and bring in a few more additions of quality I think we can still go up top two.   Just my own opinion or bit of nonsense dependent on perspective.  COYB


Thanks for your input but quite frankly your text doesn't enlighten me one bit.  I've been watching Albion since 1981.

I can see the shortcomings/weaknesses in our side, if they weren't there we'd be looking at an almost invincible team banking well over 100pts.  Don't you think that the fans of the other contenders can pick upon their weaknesses also?

All I'm referring to is the evidence in front of me which spells out that if we play our best team (along with the weaker parts) then no other team can match us!  So over to Big Dave to identify his best team, stick with it, and the points total and league position will look after itself.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 03, 2019, 06:57:17 PM
Thanks for your input but quite frankly your text doesn't enlighten me one bit.  I've been watching Albion since 1981.

I can see the shortcomings/weaknesses in our side, if they weren't there we'd be looking at an almost invincible team banking well over 100pts.  Don't you think that the fans of the other contenders can pick upon their weaknesses also?

All I'm referring to is the evidence in front of me which spells out that if we play our best team (along with the weaker parts) then no other team can match us!  So over to Big Dave to identify his best team, stick with it, and the points total and league position will look after itself.


He knows his best team, but he can't stick with it for a 50 match season, no team could. This entire diatribe from yourself over the last few posts has been utterly pointless.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on January 03, 2019, 07:37:42 PM
Thanks for your input but quite frankly your text doesn't enlighten me one bit.  I've been watching Albion since 1981.

I can see the shortcomings/weaknesses in our side, if they weren't there we'd be looking at an almost invincible team banking well over 100pts.  Don't you think that the fans of the other contenders can pick upon their weaknesses also?

All I'm referring to is the evidence in front of me which spells out that if we play our best team (along with the weaker parts) then no other team can match us!  So over to Big Dave to identify his best team, stick with it, and the points total and league position will look after itself.

The evidence put In front of me this year (as a ST holder) has suggested that we should be competing for a top two place yes.....but nothing I've seen has shown me that no other team should match us.  Our best eleven can really take the game to most teams but is not infallable, if you then take away two key players at either end like Gayle and Hegazi the weakneses mentioned above are more exposed. 



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnnyg on January 03, 2019, 08:23:57 PM

He knows his best team, but he can't stick with it for a 50 match season, no team could. This entire diatribe from yourself over the last few posts has been utterly pointless.

Jacko, as you know, I haven't always agreed with you, but you have nailed this one on the nose. Dead right and well said.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on January 03, 2019, 09:38:35 PM
You just make excuses for him.

Our strongest spell was prior to Xmas including wins over Sheff U and Leeds which yielded over 2pts per game.

We are better than all the other teams on the basis that Moore selects the best team match after match.  Can ee trust him to do it until May?

I don't want to hear anyone talking up other teams it's just nonsense.
I don't make excuses for anybody , when I've seen fit I've posted on here the things I don't agree with that Darren has done so far . (3 at the back /Nyom for Mears / Jrod out of form yet plays each game and several more ) . However  I understand Moore's a novice , he will make mistakes and his squad is wafer thin .
Your constant reference to playing the best 11 every week despite age , injuries , form and the recent number of games is the only nonsense I've seen lately .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on January 03, 2019, 09:40:50 PM

He knows his best team, but he can't stick with it for a 50 match season, no team could. This entire diatribe from yourself over the last few posts has been utterly pointless.
Exactly what I've been saying this week , you can add that other than Brunt and possibly Sako there's very little on the bench of quality.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 03, 2019, 09:48:17 PM

He knows his best team, but he can't stick with it for a 50 match season, no team could. This entire diatribe from yourself over the last few posts has been utterly pointless.

Your support of Brunt is absolutely pointless!  Shame you haven't got the balls to admit he is not the player he was.  Who is better Barry or Brunt in your opinion?

Moore had roughly a 12 game spell with Brunt and Bartley in the starting 11 and results were patchy.

You yourself have posted many a time we should be aiming for Top 2 and no less, which contrasts with the more conservative people on here who favour other teams squads over ours.

You also said it's critical we deliver promotion in 18/19 due to the potential loss of good players in Summer 19.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 03, 2019, 09:55:37 PM
I don't make excuses for anybody , when I've seen fit I've posted on here the things I don't agree with that Darren has done so far . (3 at the back /Nyom for Mears / Jrod out of form yet plays each game and several more ) . However  I understand Moore's a novice , he will make mistakes and his squad is wafer thin .
Your constant reference to playing the best 11 every week despite age , injuries , form and the recent number of games is the only nonsense I've seen lately .

Why should he be a novice he's been involved in football donkey years and he's assessing the players week in week out.

He picked the same (best) team for the 9 games running to Sheff Wed, hey presto 2+ pts per game!  As I stated before there are simply no excuses now the busy period is over, pick your best team!

All hail Sheff Utd, Leeds and Norwich they have better players than us, we're the underdogs, lol.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on January 03, 2019, 10:03:41 PM
Why should he be a novice he's been involved in football donkey years and he's assessing the players week in week out.

He picked the same (best) team for the 9 games running to Sheff Wed, hey presto 2+ pts per game!  As I stated before there are simply no excuses now the busy period is over, pick your best team!

All hail Sheff Utd, Leeds and Norwich they have better players than us, we're the underdogs, lol.
The blokes never had a management  role to my knowledge , not even under 23's . There's a huge difference between coaching roles and being the main man , of course he's a novice as a manager still.
Don't you think he'd want to pick his best players every game ? , do you think he'd want to lose Hegazi and Gayle ? He'll pick them when fit but as I and others on here have pointed out to you several times its a squad game now which once outside 11/13 players our quality drops a lot .
I've asked you twice , I'll ask you again...other than the ageing Brunt and at best rusty Sako who was there of any quality on that bench against Blackburn who could turn that game ?
Nobody is hailing the other teams , most can see we probably have the best 11 in the division but we do not have the best squad by a long way.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 03, 2019, 10:18:04 PM
The blokes never had a management  role to my knowledge , not even under 23's . There's a huge difference between coaching roles and being the main man , of course he's a novice as a manager still.
Don't you think he'd want to pick his best players every game ? , do you think he'd want to lose Hegazi and Gayle ? He'll pick them when fit but as I and others on here have pointed out to you several times its a squad game now which once outside 11/13 players our quality drops a lot .
I've asked you twice , I'll ask you again...other than the ageing Brunt and at best rusty Sako who was there of any quality on that bench against Blackburn who could turn that game ?
Nobody is hailing the other teams , most can see we probably have the best 11 in the division but we do not have the best squad by a long way.

You are asking me about Blackburn (a).  That game roughly equates to 4% of total games (26) thus far.  We lost.  We also lost at home to Bolton in Game 1. 

For the very last time, we drifted along with the same personnel playing poorly until well into the Autumn and no attempts were made to swap it around and use the squad.  For instance Barry wasn't introduced until late on.  Dawson was experimented at RB to accommodate a bumbling Bartley.

In summary we have been playing catch-up for large parts of the season, when we could've garnered many more points earlier on and been leading from the front.

Anyhow, I haven't been exactly been hammering DM all season.  I'm getting concerned now as we approach the business end.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on January 03, 2019, 10:31:13 PM
You are asking me about Blackburn (a).  That game roughly equates to 4% of total games (26) thus far.  We lost.  We also lost at home to Bolton in Game 1. 

For the very last time, we drifted along with the same personnel playing poorly until well into the Autumn and no attempts were made to swap it around and use the squad.  For instance Barry wasn't introduced until late on.  Dawson was experimented at RB to accommodate a bumbling Bartley.

In summary we have been playing catch-up for large parts of the season, when we could've garnered many more points earlier on and been leading from the front.

Anyhow, I haven't been exactly been hammering DM all season.  I'm getting concerned now as we approach the business end.
You spent the last few days telling us Moore should use his squad better hence why I ask you about the quality outside the first 11/13 players , still no answer or example of anybody.
You then preach about the first / best 11 should play every week as it leads to results buts thats impossible over both the season and the Christmas period .
Dawson came in late because he wanted out , refused to go Portugal and by all accounts sulked for a while so no I wouldn't be bending over backwards for him either even though I'm a fan , it was only the odd game at RB too before he became part of that back 3 .
I know it's far from perfect and I don't like the defending at all at times but Moore and Jones are trying to build something different from the last few years , that simply isn't going to happen in a matter of months and especially with a limited squad . I'd have to look into it but I have a feeling Barry was injured early season too although personally as well as he's played of late I'd sooner have built around somebody younger but that again goes back to the lack of Summer budget .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on January 03, 2019, 10:34:01 PM
Your support of Brunt is absolutely pointless!  Shame you haven't got the balls to admit he is not the player he was.  Who is better Barry or Brunt in your opinion?

Moore had roughly a 12 game spell with Brunt and Bartley in the starting 11 and results were patchy.

You yourself have posted many a time we should be aiming for Top 2 and no less, which contrasts with the more conservative people on here who favour other teams squads over ours.

You also said it's critical we deliver promotion in 18/19 due to the potential loss of good players in Summer 19.

Brunt and Bartley were being played due to players being unavailable due to injury/lack of match fitness/personal reasons/their future being in doubt in the window etc, nothing more. These reasons apply to Dawson, Morrison and Barry most notably. Moore also showed strong signs of wanting to strengthen both the RB and CM roles with the late bids for Dack and Tavernier (bids enabled by the late sale of Chadli) but unfortunately these did not come off.

Once Dawson was available and he felt Tosin (who had initially had a torrid time at RB against Forest, leading to the 3 at the back formation) was going to be comfortable at RB in the short term, Bartley was benched. Since both Barry and Morrison have been available we have seen less of Brunt. Brunt may have been injured initially when these two came in, but this was only short term and he has not started regularly since his return to fitness. If DM felt Brunt was the best option in the middle he would have started a number of recent games in succession, but he hasn't, because DM clearly doesn't believe he is.

The Holgate signing has already strengthened the team/squad and DM has stated they intend on signing a RB this month, so he sees the weakness in that area and has taken and is taking steps to rectifying it. He has also said he intends on signing a further attacking player (midfielder?) so it seems he sees the weakness in the squad in that area as well.

Everything that has happened so far this season tells me DM is more 'switched on' than many give him credit for and most of his decisions are quite explainable. I for one am as comfortable with him in charge than I have been at any time since his appointment and fancy him to take us to a top 2 finish this season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 03, 2019, 10:45:40 PM
Well there are less games on average per week now (especially if we exit FA Cup).

So we'll see what DM comes up with.....

If we sign players now I just don't see the point in scores of players reporting for training and not playing.  Get rid!

I still don't see why fans should water down expectations which some on here have done?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on January 03, 2019, 10:50:13 PM
Well there are less games on average per week now (especially if we exit FA Cup).

So we'll see what DM comes up with.....

If we sign players now I just don't see the point in scores of players reporting for training and not playing.  Get rid!
I still don't see why fans should water down expectations which some on here have done?
Personally speaking and others have said it too when we lose a key player we have little to come in , that's my reason for keeping it in check . Suspect those youngsters yet to prove something will head out on loan if we get some quality in . Winning situation for all if they aren't ready for the first team.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on January 04, 2019, 12:02:25 AM
Just speed read through the last few posts. While I haven't checked through previous line ups I think it's only fair to point out that from memory Craig Dawson hasn't played right back all season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on January 04, 2019, 09:27:56 AM
Well there are less games on average per week now (especially if we exit FA Cup).

So we'll see what DM comes up with.....

If we sign players now I just don't see the point in scores of players reporting for training and not playing.  Get rid!

I still don't see why fans should water down expectations which some on here have done?
To be honest, your expectations and one-eyed criticism are hard to comprehend.
I don't know of a single staunch supporter of Moore, of which i'm one, who doesn't openly question his tactics, selections, subs etc. when required, but you seem to solely focus on his short comings without offering any recognition of his achievements.
No manager or squad is perfect, or capable of "walking" any division, even Pep and his millions are fallible at times.
What Moore has done in turning a bunch of hopeless relegation fodder, into genuine contenders, is truly commendable and, if you can't even begin to see that, then I fear you will never be happy.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 04, 2019, 10:37:06 AM
To be honest, your expectations and one-eyed criticism are hard to comprehend.
I don't know of a single staunch supporter of Moore, of which i'm one, who doesn't openly question his tactics, selections, subs etc. when required, but you seem to solely focus on his short comings without offering any recognition of his achievements.
No manager or squad is perfect, or capable of "walking" any division, even Pep and his millions are fallible at times.
What Moore has done in turning a bunch of hopeless relegation fodder, into genuine contenders, is truly commendable and, if you can't even begin to see that, then I fear you will never be happy.

The gulf between the Premier League and Championship is large.  What is this grand achievement?  We are sitting 4th not Top with a 6pts advantage.  I've never said he's doing a poor job just think average.  If we lose Hegazi then we should maybe revise expectations?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on January 05, 2019, 09:37:45 AM
Thanks for your input but quite frankly your text doesn't enlighten me one bit.  I've been watching Albion since 1981.

I can see the shortcomings/weaknesses in our side, if they weren't there we'd be looking at an almost invincible team banking well over 100pts.  Don't you think that the fans of the other contenders can pick upon their weaknesses also?

All I'm referring to is the evidence in front of me which spells out that if we play our best team (along with the weaker parts) then no other team can match us!  So over to Big Dave to identify his best team, stick with it, and the points total and league position will look after itself.

Oldbury gives you a throrough response using examples of our squad and you respond to say that it doesn’t enlighten you and that you have supported Albion since 1981? I think you then effectively say that we should steam roller the league by playing our first team in every match. Isn’t that what Moore has been doing? It’s not like he changes the team much. Then again what would I know, my first match was in 1983 so I don’t have the same experience.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 05, 2019, 09:49:09 AM
Moore knows his best side - he spoke about changing the culture and that was tried from the summer. It yielded some results but during a sticky spell Moore made the neccesary changes to get us back on track.

We have been in freefall for over a year - to suddenly expect us to have all the answers following a relegation, withdrawing of investment & changing a culture within a club with an inexperienced boss in charge was aiming very high.

Stoke are a good example of how hard the transition can be and they spent a shed load of money doing it.

Moore knows his best 11, but the age of this squad & pile up of fixtures means we cannot persist with the same team every week. And whatever you say, our back up options are not good enough.

Viva Big Dave
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on January 05, 2019, 09:52:37 AM
Moore knows his best side - he spoke about changing the culture and that was tried from the summer. It yielded some results but during a sticky spell Moore made the neccesary changes to get us back on track.

We have been in freefall for over a year - to suddenly expect us to have all the answers following a relegation, withdrawing of investment & changing a culture within a club with an inexperienced boss in charge was aiming very high.

Stoke are a good example of how hard the transition can be and they spent a shed load of money doing it.

Moore knows his best 11, but the age of this squad & pile up of fixtures means we cannot persist with the same team every week. And whatever you say, our back up options are not good enough.

Viva Big Dave

Spot on.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on January 05, 2019, 10:35:06 AM
The gulf between the Premier League and Championship is large.  What is this grand achievement?  We are sitting 4th not Top with a 6pts advantage.  I've never said he's doing a poor job just think average.  If we lose Hegazi then we should maybe revise expectations?

If Stoke and Swansea were running away with the league you would have a valid point, but they're not and you don't.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 05, 2019, 10:51:46 AM
My main gripe is that we clearly played the wrong personnel for too long but some of you lot refuse to see it. 

I'm suck to death of Swansea and Stoke references, who cares about them.

It's gone so it's time to park it and look forward.  We can only change the present and future.

It's important we re-focus on the squad and what it looks like come 1 Feb.  The transfer window is the most important thing for this club now.

For instance if we lose Hegazi, Barnes and Phillips then I'd take 6th all day long.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on January 05, 2019, 11:13:12 AM
My main gripe is that we clearly played the wrong personnel for too long but some of you lot refuse to see it. 

I'm suck to death of Swansea and Stoke references, who cares about them.

It's gone so it's time to park it and look forward.  We can only change the present and future.

It's important we re-focus on the squad and what it looks like come 1 Feb.  The transfer window is the most important thing for this club now.

For instance if we lose Hegazi, Barnes and Phillips then I'd take 6th all day long.

You are so confusing. In an earlier post you said you didn’t see the point signing players. Now you say the window is the most important thing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 05, 2019, 11:21:59 AM
You are so confusing. In an earlier post you said you didn’t see the point signing players. Now you say the window is the most important thing.

Because of the potential of losing our most prized assets simple.  We don't need to add but replace if the need arises IMO.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on January 05, 2019, 11:23:18 AM
But what if they are out of form, or injured? 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 05, 2019, 11:26:14 AM
The 3 mentioned won't be out of form they are a cut above in this division.

How big a squad do you want 30, 35, 40?  Only 11 start a match.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on January 05, 2019, 11:30:13 AM
The 3 mentioned won't be out of form they are a cut above in this division.

How big a squad do you want 30, 35, 40?  Only 11 start a match.

Minimum 2 for each position, always looking to improve the quality. Don’t know what the problem is.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 05, 2019, 11:33:51 AM
The bloody problem is having too many players and keeping them happy.  Do you really want 15/20 knocking Big Dave's door every week?  I've already mentioned selection issues the problem will be highlighted twofold.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on January 05, 2019, 11:51:26 AM
Minimum 2 for each position, always looking to improve the quality. Don’t know what the problem is.
Think 2 per place is a bit too much , we do however need a few quality signings for the squad and to get a few youngsters out on loan just as Burke has done Today.
Most likely will be loans in and loans out IMO.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on January 05, 2019, 11:56:48 AM
My main gripe is that we clearly played the wrong personnel for too long but some of you lot refuse to see it. 

I'm suck to death of Swansea and Stoke references, who cares about them.

It's gone so it's time to park it and look forward.  We can only change the present and future.

It's important we re-focus on the squad and what it looks like come 1 Feb.  The transfer window is the most important thing for this club now.

For instance if we lose Hegazi, Barnes and Phillips then I'd take 6th all day long.
If another member chooses to reference another club thats up to them , its a forum for all within reason of course.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on January 05, 2019, 11:59:46 AM
The bloody problem is having too many players and keeping them happy.  Do u really want 15/20 knocking Big Dave's door every week?  I've already mentioned selection issues the problem will be highlighted twofold.

I don’t think that is our problem at all.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on January 05, 2019, 01:50:37 PM
I don’t think that is our problem at all.
I agree the problem isn’t numbers it’s depth of quality particularly in certain positions
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheBrom on January 05, 2019, 03:30:13 PM
Thought he got the balance of youth and experience bang on today and will have benefited greatly from seeing a number of the fringe players play.

In my opinion I’d like to see more of Harper and potentially Edwards around the first team.

Will also be interesting to see what the defence looks like against Norwich as Holgate was good at right back today, as was Tosin in the middle.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on January 10, 2019, 09:23:21 AM


Darren has been nominated for manager of the month award  for December's unbeaten run.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on January 10, 2019, 10:46:41 AM
Brinigng in Gary Walsh as goalkeeper coach to replace Cutler.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 12, 2019, 02:10:27 PM
In my opinion, because Darren was an understudy to Pulis, he won't use our youth and prefers old men to play. Pulis has rubbed off onto him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on January 12, 2019, 02:15:28 PM
In my opinion, because Darren was an understudy to Pulis, he won't use our youth and prefers old men to play. Pulis has rubbed off onto him.
you mean the Pulis who used both Feild and Leko? Overall I’d agree he doesn’t like youth but he did to an ok degree while here.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 12, 2019, 03:00:20 PM
Masterstroke from Darren akin to Leeds imo. His hand has been forced by injuries to Phillips and Morrison but he has gone with Rekeem who now lives and dies by his performance. Very pleased.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 12, 2019, 04:59:45 PM
No Albion fan can comprehend playing 37 and 34 year olds for 90 mins when we have replacements on the bench.

Fail to win at Bolton then play offs is all we can hope for.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mini gaardsoe on January 12, 2019, 05:02:42 PM
Manager needs changing, players need buying. Unfortunately we have an owner with no interest so nothing changes
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tommcneill on January 12, 2019, 05:07:42 PM
Manager needs changing, players need buying. Unfortunately we have an owner with no interest so nothing changes

The manager does not need changing don’t be silly

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on January 12, 2019, 05:09:53 PM
This is the problem with owners who know jack about football but have lots of money. They don't want to invest, it's just about turnover.

Darren won't last long if he keeps failing to make subs. I question his ability to make key decisions. He seems like a nice guy, and nice guys finish last. He blathers on about a tough, busy schedule, but doesn't make use of subs.

And considering he was a defender himself, our defence is shocking. Usually the position the coach played in is the first to be improved. The reason you don't see a great number of GKs in management positions.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mini gaardsoe on January 12, 2019, 05:35:41 PM
The manager does not need changing don’t be silly

If you like watching the Championships best striker playing left wing then fair enough, keep him. It’s criminal.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: telford baggie on January 12, 2019, 05:38:53 PM
Masterstroke from Darren akin to Leeds imo. His hand has been forced by injuries to Phillips and Morrison but he has gone with Rekeem who now lives and dies by his performance. Very pleased.
probably wont play him again when livermore and mozza are back..and obviously the love child brunt will be in front of him..harper only played because of injurys not cause moore wants to play the kids..he likes them old and rubbish
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maximus on January 12, 2019, 05:40:10 PM
HRK/Jrod but especially HRK offer very little goal threat, Take Jrods pens away and his not even double figures, Let alone he just runs around and less said about HRK's goal record the better, I said before the game Barnes/Gayle was carrying us. Now we have only Gayle and he plays out wide!

Big Dave too nice and will babble on about learning and improving while analysing the game etc. Make subs earlier, Used to drive me mad under Roy aswell.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on January 12, 2019, 06:04:10 PM
HRK/Jrod but especially HRK offer very little goal threat, Take Jrods pens away and his not even double figures, Let alone he just runs around and less said about HRK's goal record the better, I said before the game Barnes/Gayle was carrying us. Now we have only Gayle and he plays out wide!

Big Dave too nice and will babble on about learning and improving while analysing the game etc. Make subs earlier, Used to drive me mad under Roy aswell.

I just find this view to be ridiculous. Philips is more important than both. JROD has had an excellent season and performs an important role. Barry has stepped up and looks a different class in midfield. Also with the signing of Holgate we now arguably have the best back four in the division. Johnstone may be no Foster but he is as good as any keeper in this league. Despite losing both Barnes and Philips and with other injuries/suspensions we were still unfortunate not to beat the team who before today were second in the league. We're not being carried by two players by any means, we are one of the top sides in the division.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on January 12, 2019, 06:17:05 PM
Matt Wilson asked him about lack of subs, Moore's response: "Hindsight is a great thing".

Doesn't help himself does he? I can see it in real time, why can't he? Why can he only see it with hindsight when it's his job? I saw it against Brentford as well, we were desperate for a sub, Mozza could barely move and it ends up costing us. I said it would be his downfall on here after that game and nothing has changed.

It's why I don't think he's going to make it in the long run, I've seen too many characteristics ingrained in his management style that are holding us back. The 3 teams above us have worse squads, but far better head coaches who utilise everything at their disposal to get results.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 12, 2019, 06:24:21 PM
Absolute nail on the head.

I got shot down for saying all this about 2 weeks ago.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: cheesyknackers on January 12, 2019, 06:28:03 PM
Matt Wilson asked him about lack of subs, Moore's response: "Hindsight is a great thing".

Doesn't help himself does he? I can see it in real time, why can't he? Why can he only see it with hindsight when it's his job? I saw it against Brentford as well, we were desperate for a sub, Mozza could barely move and it ends up costing us. I said it would be his downfall on here after that game and nothing has changed.

It's why I don't think he's going to make it in the long run, I've seen too many characteristics ingrained in his management style that are holding us back. The 3 teams above us have worse squads, but far better head coaches who utilise everything at their disposal to get results.



Totally agree . We should have won this game , legs had gone well before the equaliser...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on January 12, 2019, 06:49:00 PM
Bench is terrible, he has no real quality options.

I depth of squad is not great, despite what most think.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 12, 2019, 07:15:04 PM
There was literally no one on the bench to bring on to sure up the midfield (and keep control better than Barry and Brunt were).


Lack of subs didn't cost us today. A silly forwards tackle and numerous missed chances did.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on January 12, 2019, 07:19:27 PM
There was literally no one on the bench to bring on to sure up the midfield (and keep control better than Barry and Brunt were).


Lack of subs didn't cost us today. A silly forwards tackle and numerous missed chances did.


I tend to agree with you that we were limited with our options today.

At the time I thought Johnstone should've stopped the goal but need to see it back first to confirm that. Dunno how you saw it? 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 12, 2019, 07:23:11 PM

I tend to agree with you that we were limited with our options today.

At the time I thought Johnstone should've stopped the goal but need to see it back first to confirm that. Dunno how you saw it?


Couldn't tell, I was right behind the Norwich dugout. We cleared the first cross and then switched off. I'll come back to you after I've seen a replay.  :D


edit. No, Johnstone not to blame, defenders all switched off.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 12, 2019, 10:09:51 PM
To put Darren's reign in context: nominated for Manager of the Month in 4 of 6 months he's been eligible for it (Premier League AND Championship). Beaten Pochettino, Mourinho, Benitez, Bielsa; drawn with Klopp. Had the spine of his team removed: Foster, Evans, Krychowiak, Rondon. Given precious little money to replace them approx £8 million. Far more competitive than Stoke and Swansea, top scorers and best goal difference in the division, decent passing football, cemented in the play off places and 3 points off the auto's with plenty of games left to play. Shrewd operator in the loan market. Restorer of pride.


Cheers Darren, long may you reign.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on January 12, 2019, 10:13:15 PM
To put Darren's reign in context: nominated for Manager of the Month in 4 of 6 months he's been eligible for it (Premier League AND Championship). Beaten Pochettino, Mourinho, Benitez, Bielsa; drawn with Klopp. Had the spine of his team removed: Foster, Evans, Krychowiak, Rondon. Given precious little money to replace them approx £8 million. Far more competitive than Stoke and Swansea, top scorers and best goal difference in the division, decent passing football, cemented in the play off places and 3 points off the auto's with plenty of games left to play. Shrewd operator in the loan market. Restorer of pride.


Cheers Darren, long may you reign.


Best post you've ever posted lol. Totally agree Darren is doing a fantastic job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on January 12, 2019, 10:35:07 PM

Best post you've ever posted lol. Totally agree Darren is doing a fantastic job.

Totally agree :) I came on looking for the Dean Smith love in but that seems to have quietened down the past 2 weeks :) I have said for months we have some great individuals but not a great squad. I think DM is doing a great job with what we have got. Today we had no Barnes, Livermore, Morrison or Phillips. If the board actually helps him out we might have a chance. We are 3 points off second...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 12, 2019, 10:50:20 PM
he's doing what should be done with this squad imho. the teams full of internationals with premiership experience who should be doing well in this league. he's still a rookie which makes his job a bit harder but don't see anyone doing the job better. he really needs the club to back him now.




Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on January 12, 2019, 10:51:41 PM
Manager needs changing, players need buying. Unfortunately we have an owner with no interest so nothing changes

Utterly ridiculous statement in my opinion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on January 13, 2019, 12:32:37 AM
Utterly ridiculous statement in my opinion.

Better just to leave them alone :) They want a reaction.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiesboots on January 13, 2019, 12:57:57 AM
To put Darren's reign in context: nominated for Manager of the Month in 4 of 6 months he's been eligible for it (Premier League AND Championship). Beaten Pochettino, Mourinho, Benitez, Bielsa; drawn with Klopp. Had the spine of his team removed: Foster, Evans, Krychowiak, Rondon. Given precious little money to replace them approx £8 million. Far more competitive than Stoke and Swansea, top scorers and best goal difference in the division, decent passing football, cemented in the play off places and 3 points off the auto's with plenty of games left to play. Shrewd operator in the loan market. Restorer of pride.


Cheers Darren, long may you reign.

Well done, well balanced and to the point. Here's another Baggie who totally agrees!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on January 13, 2019, 01:24:52 AM
Norwich were starting to get on top in second half we needed to freshen thinks up but as per Moore couldn't see it. Has to be looking for striker this window because HRK is not the question never mind the answer
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on January 13, 2019, 08:34:10 AM
To put Darren's reign in context: nominated for Manager of the Month in 4 of 6 months he's been eligible for it (Premier League AND Championship). Beaten Pochettino, Mourinho, Benitez, Bielsa; drawn with Klopp. Had the spine of his team removed: Foster, Evans, Krychowiak, Rondon. Given precious little money to replace them approx £8 million. Far more competitive than Stoke and Swansea, top scorers and best goal difference in the division, decent passing football, cemented in the play off places and 3 points off the auto's with plenty of games left to play. Shrewd operator in the loan market. Restorer of pride.


Cheers Darren, long may you reign.
Said it before in this thread....I think he's punching above his weight so far as seen with the loss of Barnes and and Phillips Yesterday . I won't defend him on late subs at times but there really isn't much quality on the bench.
Yesterday Norwich could bring Rhodes on , our only option is Sako who has yet to show much.
If Lai wants his money back then Moore needs backing not past it free's or begging bowl to other clubs.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 13, 2019, 08:40:50 AM
No Albion fan can deny we don’t have the numbers.  Sako, Wes and Mears all added in the Autumn as free agents in top of what we had.

Whether we have the quality in depth is the major question?

For me tough decisions have to be made NOW on suitability of our players.  I wouldn’t be against getting rid of 5 and bringing in the same number in THIS window.  There are loads of players who haven’t done enough in the first 5 months.  Adding more with no exits will create even more selection confusion than we have now IMO.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on January 13, 2019, 08:53:52 AM
No Albion fan can deny we don’t have the numbers.  Sako, Wes and Mears all added in the Autumn as free agents in top of what we had.

Whether we have the quality in depth is the major question?

For me tough decisions have to be made NOW on suitability of our players.  I wouldn’t be against getting rid of 5 and bringing in the same number in THIS window.  There are loads of players who haven’t done enough in the first 5 months.  Adding more with no exits will create even more selection confusion than we have now IMO.
I'd sooner have quality over quantity , those three players you named have added little or nothing so far .
Sako I'd hang judgement on but the wages for Wes and Mears at this point need to go on someone who can effect the starting 11 not making the bench or the odd cup game .
There is no confusion of players , we all know the best 11 / 12 players , its the rest where there's a huge drop in quality.
I think Moore has done enough to be backed by two quality players.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 13, 2019, 09:04:48 AM
I'd sooner have quality over quantity , those three players you named have added little or nothing so far .
Sako I'd hang judgement on but the wages for Wes and Mears at this point need to go on someone who can effect the starting 11 not making the bench or the odd cup game .
There is no confusion of players , we all know the best 11 / 12 players , its the rest where there's a huge drop in quality.
I think Moore has done enough to be backed by two quality players.

Know the best 11/12 players?  In your humble opinion can you nominate from 1 to 12, please?  I want to see if that correlates with selections in first 27 games.  Just going off the top of my head, I’d expect variances from game to game, that would contrast with Sheffield Utd for example.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on January 13, 2019, 09:08:48 AM
I know there wasn't a ton of options on the bench (being without Phillips, Barnes, Livermore and Morrison is always going to deplete the squad), but I don't think Hoolahan, Sako, Leko and Field are that bad that they aren't worth 15 minutes. Sako and Hoolahan in particular have been fine for their whole careers at this and the higher level, so they were better options than a tired Harper/Barry/HRK. The kids would have added a bit of fearlessness as well.

This has been a factor in Moore's time here so it isn't just about today. Hebhas got to use his bench to it's full potential.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on January 13, 2019, 09:24:26 AM
Know the best 11/12 players?  In your humble opinion can you nominate from 1 to 12, please?  I want to see if that correlates with selections in first 27 games.  Just going off the top of my head, I’d expect variances from game to game, that would contrast with Sheffield Utd for example.
Johnstone , Tosin ( now Holgate) , Gibbs , Dawson , Hegazi , Livermore , Barry , Brunt , Phillips , Barnes (gone now of course ) Gayle , JRod , Morrison , HRK.....quality starting to drop now .  Thats 15 , 14 with Barnes gone .
2 of those are well into their 30's , 2 of the current subs in Wes and Mears are well into their 30's and have added little so far . As I and others have posted its weak in certain areas and accident waiting to happen .
I won't add Bartley as that just hasn't worked out and at that point both Dawson and Hegazi wanted out although Hegazi settled down first.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on January 13, 2019, 09:53:28 AM
The sub issue really is a matter of the following: on the bench we have either age or inexperience. So what do you go for?

But whatever you go for, i think with all the fixture congestion that DM keeps on about, he should be making changes. Even if it's on 75 mins. I don't know any other manager who doesn't make use of all subs. Bringing a player on on 92 mins is just inexcusable. He won't even get a touch and it makes zero difference to energy levels.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 13, 2019, 09:56:36 AM
The sub issue really is a matter of the following: on the bench we have either age or inexperience. So what do you go for?

But whatever you go for, i think with all the fixture congestion that DM keeps on about, he should be making changes. Even if it's on 75 mins. I don't know any other manager who doesn't make use of all subs. Bringing a player on on 92 mins is just inexcusable. He won't even get a touch and it makes zero difference to energy levels.
This is exactly the point I've been arguing with others ,they keep saying he doesn't have options....but why would you change something on the 92nd...it's almost an insult.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 13, 2019, 09:57:55 AM
Johnstone , Tosin ( now Holgate) , Gibbs , Dawson , Hegazi , Livermore , Barry , Brunt , Phillips , Barnes (gone now of course ) Gayle , JRod , Morrison , HRK.....quality starting to drop now .  Thats 15 , 14 with Barnes gone .
2 of those are well into their 30's , 2 of the current subs in Wes and Mears are well into their 30's and have added little so far . As I and others have posted its weak in certain areas and accident waiting to happen .
I won't add Bartley as that just hasn't worked out and at that point both Dawson and Hegazi wanted out although Hegazi settled down first.

Cheers.  I pretty much agree.  Keeper - Johnstone.  Defence - Hegazi Dawson Gibbs Holgate (Tosin back up).  Attack - Gayle JRod.

Then come the issues......  I don't understand why HRK is still picked before Sako when Sako has had the more distinguished career and they are a similar age.

The midfield is just a mess and 90% the source of problems (now DM has wised up to Bartley).

I think we're making a major mistake with Brunt and Morrison, they should just leave now.  Livermore continues to be mediocre.  We added Hoolahan at 36 to join a 37 yr old, 34 yr old and a 33 yr old.

If these personnel problems aren't addressed then don't see promotion?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on January 13, 2019, 10:15:49 AM
Said it before in this thread....I think he's punching above his weight so far as seen with the loss of Barnes and and Phillips Yesterday . I won't defend him on late subs at times but there really isn't much quality on the bench.
Yesterday Norwich could bring Rhodes on , our only option is Sako who has yet to show much.
If Lai wants his money back then Moore needs backing not past it free's or begging bowl to other clubs.

I am 100% behind Darren Moore and I don't have a massive issue with his substitutions.

Having said that I don't think you can point to the Norwich bench or their squad and say Farke has far better options. In terms of strikers aside from Rhodes they have Oliveria who has not played a single first team minute this season (not in the squad) and Dennis Srbenny who has not played at a level higher than the German 3rd division before joining Norwich and scoring 1 goal in 12 outings.

 It has been 3 seasons since Rhodes has had a heavy goal scoring season (a 1/3 of the goals he has scored this season have been against us) and he is the type of forward if he isn't scoring hatfulls doesn't give you a hell of a lot else. He is on loan from Sheffiled Wednesday. I might swap him for Sako but then again I don't much rate Sako although as a squad player he is lot more versatile.

The shinning light for Norwich this season is Pukki and I absolutely guarantee that had we signed on a free from Brondby most of the Albion twitterati would have been underwhelmed.

The rest of the squad is the typical Championship mix of promising youngsters and a sprinkling of steady eddies e.g. Krul Tettey and Klose. Other than Rhodes the bench consisted of players who are barely household names in their own household.

No Albion fan can deny we don’t have the numbers.  Sako, Wes and Mears all added in the Autumn as free agents in top of what we had.

Whether we have the quality in depth is the major question?

For me tough decisions have to be made NOW on suitability of our players.  I wouldn’t be against getting rid of 5 and bringing in the same number in THIS window.  There are loads of players who haven’t done enough in the first 5 months.  Adding more with no exits will create even more selection confusion than we have now IMO.

I don't think Darren can accused of not knowing his best XI and when everyone is fit he is fairly consitent in his selection and formation. I don't think shipping 5 in and 5 out is practical nor even that desirable.

This kind of surgery can only happen in the summer and I suspect it will be unavoidable then.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on January 13, 2019, 10:22:40 AM
  I wouldn’t be against getting rid of 5 and bringing in the same number in THIS window.  There are loads of players who haven’t done enough in the first 5 months.  Adding more with no exits will create even more selection confusion than we have now IMO.

5 in 5 out in January when we're just 3 point behind second seems a bit OTT to me. We're very much still there with a lot of football to play. I would condone Hoolahan and Mears out with 2 in though.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on January 13, 2019, 10:24:23 AM
If ok to play i think his favoured midfield 3 is Phillips, Livermore, Barry. Which works very well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on January 13, 2019, 11:11:45 AM
5 in 5 out in January when we're just 3 point behind second seems a bit OTT to me. We're very much still there with a lot of football to play. I would condone Hoolahan and Mears out with 2 in though.

I think Mears might go (unless MCFC have an option to recall Tosin), think Hoolahan might well stay for the rest of the season
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 13, 2019, 11:17:04 AM
5 in 5 out in January when we're just 3 point behind second seems a bit OTT to me. We're very much still there with a lot of football to play. I would condone Hoolahan and Mears out with 2 in though.
Mears
Hoolahan
Phillips (not our choice)
Barnes (return)
Johnstone. (Yes Johnstone)

holgate (loan)
Emile smith Rowe (loan)
Ollie Watkins
Nemecha or nketiah on loan

And any goalkeeper from anyone (except krull) because the one we have is shocking at decision making and makes the boys in front of him nervous, people keep saying he's young, he's a year older than Pickford and the same age as pope , yesterday Gibbs really told him about himself but he's been an accident waiting to happen all season
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on January 13, 2019, 01:40:37 PM
Mears
Hoolahan
Phillips (not our choice)
Barnes (return)
Johnstone. (Yes Johnstone)

holgate (loan)
Emile smith Rowe (loan)
Ollie Watkins
Nemecha or nketiah on loan

And any goalkeeper from anyone (except krull) because the one we have is shocking at decision making and makes the boys in front of him nervous, people keep saying he's young, he's a year older than Pickford and the same age as pope , yesterday Gibbs really told him about himself but he's been an accident waiting to happen all season

Do you not recognise that the club has had no official ‘ expert ‘ goalkeeper coach for the best part of 3 months ?

He is doing ok and his decision making is far from shocking.

This constant negativity towards him and others is irritating.

Johnstone is going nowhere so people may aswell get used to it .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 13, 2019, 04:17:31 PM
Do you not recognise that the club has had no official ‘ expert ‘ goalkeeper coach for the best part of 3 months ?

He is doing ok and his decision making is far from shocking.

This constant negativity towards him and others is irritating.

Johnstone is going nowhere so people may aswell get used to it .
Ask yourself why it feels like constant negativity?
My opinion (and many others) is that he is just not good enough,opinions are allowed on here ?
At 26 he should be ready now and he clearly is not,so are you saying you agree and he’s been below par because of no specialist coach,or are you saying he is good enough??...in which case the lack of coach wouldn’t be an issue?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on January 14, 2019, 08:52:12 AM
Ask yourself why it feels like constant negativity?
My opinion (and many others) is that he is just not good enough,opinions are allowed on here ?
At 26 he should be ready now and he clearly is not,so are you saying you agree and he’s been below par because of no specialist coach,or are you saying he is good enough??...in which case the lack of coach wouldn’t be an issue?
Have to agree to be fair. I sat looking down the goal line Saturday and he just looks either nervous or half asleep. His positioning on corners is shocking, he basically hides in the crowd with no intention of commanding his area. Should have done better with the goal and got away with a couple where he pushed saves back into play.
Hopefully the new (old) coach can bring him some confidence. If so, he could be a decent shot stopper but, my thoughts are that crosses will never be "his thing"
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on January 14, 2019, 09:12:54 AM
To put Darren's reign in context: nominated for Manager of the Month in 4 of 6 months he's been eligible for it (Premier League AND Championship). Beaten Pochettino, Mourinho, Benitez, Bielsa; drawn with Klopp. Had the spine of his team removed: Foster, Evans, Krychowiak, Rondon. Given precious little money to replace them approx £8 million. Far more competitive than Stoke and Swansea, top scorers and best goal difference in the division, decent passing football, cemented in the play off places and 3 points off the auto's with plenty of games left to play. Shrewd operator in the loan market. Restorer of pride.


Cheers Darren, long may you reign.

Yes he has flaws but the positives you list (very well BTW) far outweigh the flaws.
If he was perfect he would be headhunted as quick as.

Keep it up Darren, work on the flaws and hopefully we all see the benefits.
(By way of comparison,  The Norwich manager (forgot his german name) was very close to losing his job not long ago, but has adapted and is now getting loads of plaudits).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on January 14, 2019, 10:21:08 AM
Tall lad should be better at corners and high balls coming in from out wide. Disappointed that he didn't do better with equaliser
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on January 14, 2019, 10:31:44 AM
Tall lad should be better at corners and high balls coming in from out wide. Disappointed that he didn't do better with equaliser

In fairness to Darren he only leaves his technical area to go to the bog, allegedly.....  ;D  ;) .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 14, 2019, 01:19:47 PM
There was literally no one on the bench to bring on to sure up the midfield (and keep control better than Barry and Brunt were).


Lack of subs didn't cost us today. A silly forwards tackle and numerous missed chances did.

This

We was absolutely comfortable - we possibly could and should have made a change to provide fresh legs but lets face it, it was hardly a backs to the wall job.

Our management of the game on Saturday was very good. It is just a shame that our forward decided to sprint 30 yards back to clatter one of their players.

Had Gayle not been so stupid, we win 1-0, and everyone on here is waxing lyrical.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on January 14, 2019, 01:30:25 PM
Regarding the subs issue, my opinion is that we should have replaced Gayle much earlier, and injected fresh legs. If you look at the way Hoolahan retained possession against Wigan, maybe he would have been a good option.

What I did notice again on Saturday was the lack of discipline. I saw Brunt commit a couple of silly fouls quite early, and put it down to his lack of legs against more mobile players. But every time Norwich played for a foul, we went for it. The players aren't being smart or disciplined enough, and we eventually paid for that when a tired Gayle gave away a silly foul.

Also, I hate to say it, as much as Moore has given us a bit more to be proud of, I can't see him being manager if we aren't promoted. As little as he's had to work with, I think there is pressure on him to get us back up from above. And I think Lai and co will want us promoted, as little interest as they have in it, and might not be forgiving of the circumstances.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on January 14, 2019, 08:17:35 PM
This

We was absolutely comfortable - we possibly could and should have made a change to provide fresh legs but lets face it, it was hardly a backs to the wall job.

Our management of the game on Saturday was very good. It is just a shame that our forward decided to sprint 30 yards back to clatter one of their players.

Had Gayle not been so stupid, we win 1-0, and everyone on here is waxing lyrical.


He's been told before not to do that as well. The two wide men are supposed to stay up the field and not go chasing back. Dwight needs to learn this. As much as anything if our wide men keep tracking back we will have no outlet we'll start to get penned in in games.

Too eager for his own good and probably as a result of the British mentality of always giving 100%. Sometimes less is more.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on January 26, 2019, 05:17:50 PM
5 academy players on the pitch today

 Well done darren
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gavinrussell on January 26, 2019, 05:21:00 PM
5 academy players on the pitch today

 Well done darren
Agree..and hopefully the same 5 players will feature in the replay too...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on January 26, 2019, 05:33:46 PM
Doing a fantastic job. Very proud of our club, manager and team at the moment.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on January 26, 2019, 06:39:32 PM
Doing a fantastic job. Very proud of our club, manager and team at the moment.
Seconded, carpe diem!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on January 26, 2019, 10:41:19 PM
Great result today.  I hope DM backs the players we have for rest of season.  I don't understand why we need to go into the market.  The rule is don't sign anyone unless they are better than what you have.  The only gripe is we need to move on from HRK.  We have players here already that could do better.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on January 26, 2019, 10:47:59 PM
Great result today.  I hope DM backs the players we have for rest of season.  I don't understand why we need to go into the market.  The rule is don't sign anyone unless they are better than what you have.  The only gripe is we need to move on from HRK.  We have players here already that could do better.
Barnes gone and Phillips injured, Sako as good as gone, Burke out on loan that's a major dent in our pace options. If we have the funds we'd be daft not to be looking for at least one replacement.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 27, 2019, 09:00:15 AM
If he has learnt anything from yesterday then I hope it’s that he shows a bit more faith in the academy graduates. Harper has taken his chance when offered and field showed his capabilities in that central midfield role.

Those two in particular should have had more minutes this season
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on January 28, 2019, 01:50:20 AM
Doing a great job. I'm not sure about the criticism of his lack of minutes for the young players. I was delighted and proud at the fighting display yesterday but if you watch the match Brighton over ran us at times. I want Field to succeed and would love him to be great for us but I wouldn't say he has been brilliant when he has played. I can see why Moore has played Livermore, Barry, Morrison ahead of him this season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 28, 2019, 05:50:57 AM
Doing a great job. I'm not sure about the criticism of his lack of minutes for the young players. I was delighted and proud at the fighting display yesterday but if you watch the match Brighton over ran us at times. I want Field to succeed and would love him to be great for us but I wouldn't say he has been brilliant when he has played. I can see why Moore has played Livermore, Barry, Morrison ahead of him this season.


Agree, Field offered the back 4 precious little protection on Saturday, Brighton had just shy of 25 shots on goal. In possession he was very much 'safety first' sideways and backwards. Not good enough yet.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on January 28, 2019, 11:42:19 AM
Field had a good game Saturday, gave the ball away a couple of times first half but grew into it after that and had a good game. You cannot blame one man for another team having 25 shots on goals, its a team game and not at all safety first, he played some decent stuff going forward as well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 01, 2019, 06:57:44 AM
I'm behind Darren Moore.  To be truthful after the 3 signings we need to get top 2.  I feel the board have done their bit in the Summer and 31 Jan with getting players.

IMO on reflection we have made some mistakes with keeping Brunt, Morrison, HRK and most certainly signing Bartley for 4.5m.

There is no reason to play these guys with all the options available.

Maybe it's me but I can't help recalling what Megson achieved twice and 2001/02 is up there with our greatest seasons in history.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Black Pearl on February 01, 2019, 08:10:46 AM
Darren has done a good job balancing the squad, getting the age down, operating within budget :-X, if he can now complete this seasons mission and getting us promoted, he will have done an excellent job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 01, 2019, 08:22:52 AM
I'm behind Darren Moore.  To be truthful after the 3 signings we need to get top 2.  I feel the board have done their bit in the Summer and 31 Jan with getting players.

IMO on reflection we have made some mistakes with keeping Brunt, Morrison, HRK and most certainly signing Bartley for 4.5m.

There is no reason to play these guys with all the options available.

Maybe it's me but I can't help recalling what Megson achieved twice and 2001/02 is up there with our greatest seasons in history.
You are spot on my friend. I have been a season ticket holder for 50 years and he is the best manager in my lifetime without a doubt. My late father even put him ahead of his favourite Vic Buckingham !
I would still have Gary back at the club like a shot and would have liked to have seen him mentor Darren Moore as his assistant.
Mind you , i still believe that if they had trusted Gary to stay on, instead of appointing Pardew we would not have been relegated.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 01, 2019, 08:53:49 AM
Megson and his football would be run out of town nowadays.


He has the massive boon of extremely low supporter expectations.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on February 01, 2019, 09:13:48 AM
Well done "Big Dave" the best January window in a long time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 01, 2019, 11:08:42 AM
Megson and his football would be run out of town nowadays.


He has the massive boon of extremely low supporter expectations.

Still doesn't take away what was achieved in 2002 with an £8m wage bill.  I think ours is £38m now according to the commentator the other night.

Expectations should be higher now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 01, 2019, 11:38:08 AM
Still doesn't take away what was achieved in 2002 with an £8m wage bill.  I think ours is £38m now according to the commentator the other night.

Expectations should be higher now.
Football has changed though:

Record British transfer 2002 - £30m.......2018 £90m
Average weekly wage 2002 - £16k........2018 £37.5k (or there or thereabouts)

Megson did a great job with the resources available, no doubt, but Moore is doing an equally great job, albeit under different circumstances.

Our expectations are definitely higher, and rightly so, but, to most of our fanbase at least, Moore is at the very worst, "on target", for me he is well above what I expected.

Personally, whilst I admired Megson greatly, I didn't like the football so the fact that Moore is doing it with a bit of style makes it all the more enjoyable.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mrvulgarity on February 01, 2019, 11:40:40 AM
Excellent Jan Window

Will people now get off his back for being negative in times like this do you think?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 01, 2019, 11:47:34 AM
Excellent Jan Window

Will people now get off his back for being negative in times like this do you think?

I don't understand this point?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 05:02:19 PM
Darren Moore = Nice guy / Error ridden manager
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2019, 05:06:42 PM
Darren Moore = Nice guy / Error ridden manager
Thing is Barry was at fault or part fault for the first goal , Brunt with the third . 
He made subs at the right time for once. Not really on him Today.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on February 02, 2019, 05:07:34 PM
Darren Moore = Nice guy / Error ridden manager

2 huge individual mistakes...obviously Moore’s fault.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on February 02, 2019, 05:09:33 PM
Judge him at the end of the season. Players want to play for him, if we sack him now players would lose interest
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 05:09:38 PM
2 huge individual mistakes...obviously Moore’s fault.

WTF did Brunt come on for?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on February 02, 2019, 05:10:32 PM
The only time managers should be sacked is when the players have enough of him
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2019, 05:11:26 PM
WTF did Brunt come on for?
Field got smacked in the head and waved at the bench.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 05:14:13 PM
Field got smacked in the head and waved at the bench.

hes an old carthorse ready for the knackers yard
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on February 02, 2019, 05:16:36 PM
WTF did Brunt come on for?

Maybe because he has experience and the players were tiring (which incidentally is the reason Moore gets stick all the time because he doesn’t make subs). Don’t think Moore said “hey Chris, if you could mess this up and get Pulis a win, that would be great”....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on February 02, 2019, 05:16:46 PM
Field got smacked in the head and waved at the bench.
The question wasn't why did Field go off, which was a perfectly good decision, but why did Brunt come on, which wasn't.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 05:17:46 PM
3 signings this week and the manager still holds a candle to Brunt whats going on?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2019, 05:19:21 PM
The question wasn't why did Field go off, which was a perfectly good decision, but why did Brunt come on, which wasn't.
Was there another midfielder on the bench ? , can't remember off top of my head .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on February 02, 2019, 05:20:48 PM
Maybe because he has experience and the players were tiring (which incidentally is the reason Moore gets stick all the time because he doesn’t make subs). Don’t think Moore said “hey Chris, if you could mess this up and get Pulis a win, that would be great”....

He brought Brunt on instead of the lightening pace of Montero to run at them. We already had Livermore and Harper. How many central midfielders at 2-2 were necessary? Indefensible substitution.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2019, 05:22:29 PM
hes an old carthorse ready for the knackers yard
On Todays performance so is Barry , two mistakes from the two Moore and 99% of us wouldn't expect , stinking ...I hate losing to Pulis like that again .
It's how we bounce back from this.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on February 02, 2019, 05:28:54 PM
Been saying it all season, not a chance he'll make it as a relatively successful head coach. Doesn't learn from his mistakes at all. In-game management is consistently atrocious.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2019, 05:29:15 PM
He brought Brunt on instead of the lightening pace of Montero to run at them. We already had Livermore and Harper. How many central midfielders at 2-2 were necessary? Indefensible substitution.
We weren't losing , still well in the game so I don't see the point changing the system and let Pulis over run us in the middle . Livermore not mobile enough for two .
I struggle to blame Moore too much , two howlers from players with enough about them not to do that 99 out of a 100 times . My moan Today was taking H.R.K off , vital cog gone . 
Can't believe I'm saying that about H.R.K  :o , Moore even used his subs in time for once.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 02, 2019, 05:41:49 PM
How disrespectful some of our fans are with the language they use about a player coming to the end of a distinguished career and having made 400 appearances for our club. 

Unbelievable, I hope they rethink themselves when they have cooled down and gotten over the disappointment of losing a football match.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 05:42:07 PM
On Todays performance so is Barry , two mistakes from the two Moore and 99% of us wouldn't expect , stinking ...I hate losing to Pulis like that again .
It's how we bounce back from this.

yep bounce back to claw back the deficit on the Blades operating with about a quarter of our wage bill
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 02, 2019, 05:42:37 PM
Who coaches the defence because he should be sacked
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Blowee on February 02, 2019, 05:45:46 PM
Not a hero when we win or a villain when we lose. Honest bloke who actually has done a good job since taking over a club in turmoil. Let's judge him much later on. We aren't going down - we could go up. Buck the trend as modern day supporters and show patience. I think Darren Moore will turn out to be a very good manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2019, 05:46:04 PM
yep bounce back to claw back the deficit on the Blades operating with about a quarter of our wage bill
Moore's nothing to do with a wage bill coming down from the Premier , we played well enough Today .
2 errors from old heads , lets see how he responds and how one or two play in the Cup . Bond could well be one .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 05:46:16 PM
How disrespectful some of our fans are with the language they use about a player coming to the end of a distinguished career and having made 400 appearances for our club. 

Unbelievable, I hope they rethink themselves when they have cooled down and gotten over the disappointment of losing a football match.

like it or not i just tell the truth about Brunt.  I don't actually blame the player himself and respect him for the player he WAS.  He doesn't pick himself.......
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 02, 2019, 05:49:20 PM
like it or not i just tell the truth about Brunt.  I don't actually blame the player himself and respect him for the player he WAS.  He doesn't pick himself.......

He deserves respect, criticise his performance by all means, but describe him as you did does you no credit
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 05:49:54 PM
Moore's nothing to do with a wage bill coming down from the Premier , we played well enough Today .
2 errors from old heads , lets see how he responds and how one or two play in the Cup . Bond could well be one .

nah i'm sorry i just don't think Moore's good enough.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 05:52:39 PM
He deserves respect, criticise his performance by all means, but describe him as you did does you no credit

ok i deserve no credit just for being honest about the situation.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2019, 05:52:50 PM
nah i'm sorry i just don't think Moore's good enough.
Thats your opinion and that's fine , I'm sorry too but I'm not blaming him Today .
He did most things we all would , I'll judge him at the end of the season or longer as he's a project and always was going to be.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 02, 2019, 05:55:34 PM
ok i deserve no credit just for being honest about the situation.

You obviously don't get it do you? And no, I want waste my time trying to explain to you
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 02, 2019, 05:58:52 PM
Thats your opinion and that's fine , I'm sorry too but I'm not blaming him Today .
He did most things we all would , I'll judge him at the end of the season or longer as he's a project and always was going to be.

Did he? Team selection, tactics, personnel on the bench, substitutions. None of them are what I would have gone for.

Dwight Gayle hugging the left flank. Utter nonsense
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 06:00:41 PM
You obviously don't get it do you? And no, I want waste my time trying to explain to you

i think i get it mate.  here you are:

Brunt fine servant to WBA 400 games played.
Good player in his early time at the club and good value at £3m.
However, certainly nowhere near our all time greats.
Way past championship level now, can't run, rushed on the ball.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 02, 2019, 06:06:07 PM
i think i get it mate.  here you are:

Brunt fine servant to WBA 400 games played.
Good player in his early time at the club and good value at £3m.
However, certainly nowhere near our all time greats.
Way past championship level now, can't run, rushed on the ball.

Had you used that description in your original post, then fine, but do you think "hes an old carthorse ready for the knackers yard" is respectful?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 06:09:17 PM
Had you used that description in your original post, then fine, but do you think "hes an old carthorse ready for the knackers yard" is respectful?

ok i am distespectful.  And you haven't come forward with an opinion....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 02, 2019, 06:12:48 PM
This is the Darren Moore thread, aside from picking Field and Kanu ahead of Brunt and Murphy he got most things right today.


Can't keep defending him if he persists with this goalkeeper though.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: telford baggie on February 02, 2019, 06:14:19 PM
i think i get it mate.  here you are:

Brunt fine servant to WBA 400 games played.
Good player in his early time at the club and good value at £3m.
However, certainly nowhere near our all time greats.
Way past championship level now, can't run, rushed on the ball.
brunt has done naff all for years..keep hearing about this wand so he can put 1 good corner in every 10 the blokes past it time to move on and quickly, big dave should follow if he fails the end of the season aswell just not upto it
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 02, 2019, 06:15:04 PM
ok i am distespectful.  And you haven't come forward with an opinion....

My opinion, he's been a great servant to the club and deserves respect
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2019, 06:16:32 PM
Did he? Team selection, tactics, personnel on the bench, substitutions. None of them are what I would have gone for.

Dwight Gayle hugging the left flank. Utter nonsense
Easy to say after the event though ? , I thought he did the right thing with Field and Harper .
The back 4 picks itself , up until Today Johnstone was doing enough .
Murphy too much of a risk to start so agree on that , Brunt and Livermore on the bench agree with that .
H.R.K was a mistake to sub and I'm not keen on Gayle out wide/cutting in but then again Jrod scores again and maybe got a touch on the 2nd .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 06:19:34 PM
This is the Darren Moore thread, aside from picking Field and Kanu ahead of Brunt and Murphy he got most things right today.


Can't keep defending him if he persists with this goalkeeper though.

Moore was out manoevered by Pulis today (who remains a good tactician despite the drab football). 

I agree bring in the other keeper immediately.  Mr Bond - we have been expecting you........

I think Brunty is negotiating a new 4 year contract as we speak!!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 02, 2019, 06:20:53 PM
Easy to say after the event though ? , I thought he did the right thing with Field and Harper .
The back 4 picks itself , up until Today Johnstone was doing enough .
Murphy too much of a risk to start so agree on that , Brunt and Livermore on the bench agree with that .
H.R.K was a mistake to sub and I'm not keen on Gayle out wide/cutting in but then again Jrod scores again and maybe got a touch on the 2nd .

Check my post in the pre match thread chap, it was hardly hindsight.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 02, 2019, 06:22:25 PM
This is the Darren Moore thread, aside from picking Field and Kanu ahead of Brunt and Murphy he got most things right today.


Can't keep defending him if he persists with this goalkeeper though.

You really still think that Brunt should be playing centre mid? Blimey Jacko, even for you that’s a stretch
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2019, 06:23:46 PM
Check my post in the pre match thread chap, it was hardly hindsight.
I see a lot of your posts day in day out thanks ;D 5-0 Albion.

Redemption after years of putting up with that cretin both during his time with Stoke and when he was in charge here.

this one......
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 06:24:02 PM
My opinion, he's been a great servant to the club and deserves respect

so despite me being disrespectful you've basically agreed with my opinion, not much insight from you....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 02, 2019, 06:25:00 PM
Moore was out manoevered by Pulis today (who remains a good tactician despite the drab football). 

I agree bring in the other keeper immediately.  Mr Bond - we have been expecting you........

I think Brunty is negotiating a new 4 year contract as we speak!!!

Not very good at wit and / or sarcasm are you  :D ;D :D ;D :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 06:27:46 PM
Not very good at wit and / or sarcasm are you  :D ;D :D ;D :D

and you don't have the confidence to say what you think
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on February 02, 2019, 06:28:36 PM
Easy to say after the event though ? , I thought he did the right thing with Field and Harper .
The back 4 picks itself , up until Today Johnstone was doing enough .
Murphy too much of a risk to start so agree on that , Brunt and Livermore on the bench agree with that .
H.R.K was a mistake to sub and I'm not keen on Gayle out wide/cutting in but then again Jrod scores again and maybe got a touch on the 2nd .

I agree with Fritzi, it's ridiculous having Gayle on the left wing and I've been moaning about that since we started doing it. Credit to Gayle for still contributing but it's not getting the best out of our best striker. At 2-2 today with 10 minutes left the obvious sub for Field was Montero to scare them with his pace not Brunt who is prone to giving free kicks away, floating crosses to their keeper and giving the ball away in possession. Montero would have been the obvious and attacking move. Instead we had Brunt on who within seconds got himself deep into his own box (where he wasn't needed) who gifted Boro a goal with a lazy air-kick. No idea why Livermore replaced Barry either, I don't recall him doing anything of note. He's an inferior footballer to Barry in every department and Barry didn't seem too knackered not to see out the holding role.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 02, 2019, 06:28:57 PM
and you don't have the confidence to say what you think

Hahaha, game set and match, I rest my case  :D :D :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2019, 06:30:52 PM
I agree with Fritzi, it's ridiculous having Gayle on the left wing and I've been moaning about that since we started doing it. Credit to Gayle for still contributing but it's not getting the best out of our best striker. At 2-2 today with 10 minutes left the obvious sub for Field was Montero to scare them with his pace not Brunt who is prone to giving free kicks away, floating crosses to their keeper and giving the ball away in possession. Montero would have been the obvious and attacking move. Instead we had Brunt on who within seconds got himself deep into his own box (where he wasn't needed) who gifted Boro a goal with a lazy air-kick. No idea why Livermore replaced Barry either, I don't recall him doing anything of note. He's an inferior footballer to Barry in every department and Barry didn't seem too knackered not to see out the holding role.
Again I'll point out you don't leave two in the middle against Pulis , especially if one is the lumbersome Livermore . Pulis would have had 4 in the middle before Field sat down.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 02, 2019, 06:32:43 PM
I see a lot of your posts day in day out thanks ;D 5-0 Albion.

Redemption after years of putting up with that cretin both during his time with Stoke and when he was in charge here.

this one......

Foolish me was optimistic that the manager was capable of picking the right team.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 06:34:38 PM
Hahaha, game set and match, I rest my case  :D :D :D

You sound a bit strange to me. 

Yes we share the same footabll team, the similarity ends there.

Cheerio.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2019, 06:34:58 PM
Foolish me was optimistic that the manager was capable of picking the right team.
;D , forgive me Fritzl . I was pulling your leg on a bad night against the capped one.
Your other post did say about being bullied , in fairness that didn't happen .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 02, 2019, 06:35:18 PM
Some embarrassing posts on here. Hindsight used in some of these posts isn’t power or wisdom, it’s an embarrassing smugness and used to reinforce whatever pathetic agenda they have against Moore.

I’m proud to have him as our Manager and delighted with the job he is doing. He’s not the first Albion manager to be beaten by Pulis and had his experienced players not made mistakes we’d have won
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on February 02, 2019, 06:40:01 PM
Again I'll point out you don't leave two in the middle against Pulis , especially if one is the lumbersome Livermore . Pulis would have had 4 in the middle before Field sat down.

When Assombalonga came on Boro changed their formation and went to a 442 so there was no need whatsoever to have Barry, Livermore and Harper in midfield against them. Plus Brunt is more of a liability than an asset in midfield anyway. I also agree that Livermore is clumbersome but Moore choose to bring him on for Barry who is clearly our best and most consistent central midfielder. Boro were at their most vulnerable defensively and  Montero down the left could have capitalised on their tired legs, especially with Gayle given 10 minutes in the middle.

I like Moore but he got his game management and subs all wrong today and the clanger from Brunt wasn't out of keeping with him this season, you didn't need to be mystic meg to realise him and Livermore had potential to backfire.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on February 02, 2019, 06:42:08 PM
Some embarrassing posts on here. Hindsight used in some of these posts isn’t power or wisdom, it’s an embarrassing smugness and used to reinforce whatever pathetic agenda they have against Moore.

I’m proud to have him as our Manager and delighted with the job he is doing. He’s not the first Albion manager to be beaten by Pulis and had his experienced players not made mistakes we’d have won

There's no agenda against Moore. Fans are rightfully starting to get p****d off that he's leading the best squad in the league to almost having no chance of making the automatics. By making the same mistakes over and over, and they are mistakes that the majority of us can see yet he somehow can't.

I'd be a bit more worried by your own undying loyalty to an underperforming head coach who can seemingly do no wrong, if I were you.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2019, 06:45:23 PM
When Assombalonga came on Boro changed their formation and went to a 442 so there was no need whatsoever to have Barry, Livermore and Harper in midfield against them. Plus Brunt is more of a liability than an asset in midfield anyway. I also agree that Livermore is clumbersome but Moore choose to bring him on for Barry who is clearly our best and most consistent central midfielder. Boro were at their most vulnerable defensively and  Montero down the left could have capitalised on their tired legs, especially with Gayle given 10 minutes in the middle.

I like Moore but he got his game management and subs all wrong today and the clanger from Brunt wasn't out of keeping with him this season, you didn't need to be mystic meg to realise him and Livermore had potential to backfire.
Hegazi / Dawson should have been enough to deal with lumps up to those front two to be fair , Barry for my money was well off the pace most of the game so I understand the sub .
Montero would most likely have been as effective as Murphy due to Hegazi /Dawson and Gibbs lumping it forward to nobody when Moore took HRK off . That for me was Moore's mistake , at the very least he went early with it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 06:48:54 PM
There's no agenda against Moore. Fans are rightfully starting to get p****d off that he's leading the best squad in the league to almost having no chance of making the automatics. By making the same mistakes over and over, and they are mistakes that the majority of us can see yet he somehow can't.

I'd be a bit more worried by your own undying loyalty to an underperforming head coach who can seemingly do no wrong, if I were you.

Well summed up and I'm 100% in agreement.  We have the BEST squad in this division bar none.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 02, 2019, 06:50:23 PM
There's no agenda against Moore. Fans are rightfully starting to get p****d off that he's leading the best squad in the league to almost having no chance of making the automatics. By making the same mistakes over and over, and they are mistakes that the majority of us can see yet he somehow can't.

I'd be a bit more worried by your own undying loyalty to an underperforming head coach who can seemingly do no wrong, if I were you.

Errrr. Moore didn’t make the mistakes Barry and Brunt made.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 02, 2019, 06:52:10 PM
There's no agenda against Moore. Fans are rightfully starting to get p****d off that he's leading the best squad in the league to almost having no chance of making the automatics. By making the same mistakes over and over, and they are mistakes that the majority of us can see yet he somehow can't.

I'd be a bit more worried by your own undying loyalty to an underperforming head coach who can seemingly do no wrong, if I were you.

And yes there is an agenda against him to the extent that people on this forum were having a go at him for sounding ‘simple’ in post match interviews. It’s become quite an unpleasant place.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on February 02, 2019, 06:55:40 PM
Hegazi / Dawson should have been enough to deal with lumps up to those front two to be fair , Barry for my money was well off the pace most of the game so I understand the sub .
Montero would most likely have been as effective as Murphy due to Hegazi /Dawson and Gibbs lumping it forward to nobody when Moore took HRK off . That for me was Moore's mistake , at the very least he went early with it.

He didn't go early with it, he waited until the 74th minute - 20 minutes after Pulis made his first move and 10 minutes after the Assombalonga sub that changed the game. We'd already conceded the 2nd before Darren 'Reaction Man' Moore did anything.

I said to a mate after 62 mins when Hugill broke through for a shot that the midfield were knackered and Assombalonga would have a field day if Negative Pulis had the balls to bring him on. We scored on the next attack, and Moore ignored the obvious problem.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on February 02, 2019, 06:57:51 PM
Well summed up and I'm 100% in agreement.  We have the BEST squad in this division bar none.

Since Thursday night we may have the best squad...Before that we didn't and who says we actually do? in terms of money spent on the squad this season we would be down the list..
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2019, 07:01:54 PM
He didn't go early with it, he waited until the 74th minute - 20 minutes after Pulis made his first move and 10 minutes after the Assombalonga sub that changed the game. We'd already conceded the 2nd before Darren 'Reaction Man' Moore did anything.

I said to a mate after 62 mins when Hugill broke through for a shot that the midfield were knackered and Assombalonga would have a field day if Negative Pulis had the balls to bring him on. We scored on the next attack, and Moore ignored the obvious problem.
Early for me then , he was the centre point for a lot of our out balls (granted he hits the floor too much ) .
Apart from the goals the other forwards did little as daft as that sounds.
HRK was subbed then we conceded from memory.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 02, 2019, 07:03:12 PM
This is the Darren Moore thread, aside from picking Field and Kanu ahead of Brunt and Murphy he got most things right today.


Can't keep defending him if he persists with this goalkeeper though.

Field over Brunt every day of the week, had a decentish game today, can pass and can tackle plus he is a natural centre midfielder unlike Brunt who is not and never will be one.

HRK had a good game today.

Moore is tactically naive at times today being one.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 02, 2019, 07:04:38 PM
Cannot be held accountable for the pathetic mistakes of Johnstone/Barry and then Chris Brunts air shot

Hopefully with the new additions we’ll see HRK and Brunt resigned to the bench or reserves.

He has the resources now so there can be no excuses going forwards
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on February 02, 2019, 07:07:09 PM
Field over Brunt every day of the week, had a decentish game today, can pass and can tackle plus he is a natural centre midfielder unlike Brunt who is not and never will be one.

HRK had a good game today.

Moore is tactically naive at times today being one.


I thought he had a pretty good first half while Harper was poor. Second half it reversed Harper got better and Field seemed to lose every one on one beit in the air or in the tackle.

HRK didn't deserve to be taken off today.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 07:13:56 PM
Since Thursday night we may have the best squad...Before that we didn't and who says we actually do? in terms of money spent on the squad this season we would be down the list..

Are you joking?  The Board have done absolutely everything to return us to the top flight.  How the hell are Sheff Utd in front of us?  No one has outplayed us.  The most impressive side was Villa who admittedly shaded us.  Even Derby was a 50-50 game in which we lost 1-4 which was evened up with the 4-1 v Leeds.  We are architechs of our own downfall, continually shooting ourselves in the foot.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 02, 2019, 07:16:00 PM
Field over Brunt every day of the week, had a decentish game today, can pass and can tackle plus he is a natural centre midfielder unlike Brunt who is not and never will be one.

HRK had a good game today.

Moore is tactically naive at times today being one.


I don't agree Field is as good as Brunt in central midfield. He was very weak today and is best kept in the under 23s imo.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 02, 2019, 07:16:06 PM
Are you joking?  The Board have done absolutely everything to return us to the top flight.  How the hell are Sheff Utd in front of us?  No one has outplayed us.  The most impressive side was Villa who admittedly shaded us.  Even Derby was a 50-50 game in which we lost 1-4 which was evened up with the 4-1 v Leeds.  We are architechs of our own downfall, continually shooting ourselves in the foot.

Derby was a 50/50 game? Are you serious. They outplayed us in every sense.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 02, 2019, 07:20:47 PM

I don't agree Field is as good as Brunt in central midfield. He was very weak today and is best kept in the under 23s imo.

Field is a natural central midfielder who you seem to have now put on your hit list, even last week you were possibly the only person not to give him any credit anywhere, Brunt has never been a central midfielder, he cannot tackle, his positioning is poor and due to a combination of both he gives away stupid free kicks in dangerous areas. Wide player who now should be used sparingly from the bench, the wand is no more.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on February 02, 2019, 07:21:37 PM
Are you joking?  The Board have done absolutely everything to return us to the top flight.  How the hell are Sheff Utd in front of us?  No one has outplayed us.  The most impressive side was Villa who admittedly shaded us.  Even Derby was a 50-50 game in which we lost 1-4 which was evened up with the 4-1 v Leeds.  We are architechs of our own downfall, continually shooting ourselves in the foot.

A lot points dropped recently with self-inflicted mistakes. Selection of players picked out of loyalty not form. Naive tactical decisions and indecision from the bench. That is what is so frustrating. Moore has got a lot right but repeats his mistakes and is too slow to react. Bottom line is our home form is horrendous and with our team and squad we should be doing a lot better than we have been. Today was particularly difficult to accept.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 02, 2019, 07:22:40 PM
Field is a natural central midfielder who you seem to have now put on your hit list, even last week you were possibly the only person not to give him any credit anywhere, Brunt has never been a central midfielder, he cannot tackle, his positioning is poor and due to a combination of both he gives away stupid free kicks in dangerous areas. Wide player who now should be used sparingly from the bench, the wand is no more.


Natural or not he's not as good as Brunt at it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on February 02, 2019, 07:23:25 PM
Darren Moore makes mistakes like every other manager does and you knew Pulis would win today (he always does against his former teams). Some of the vitriol and criticism seems over the top to me. Our modern "self-righteous" culture has become pervasive in football too. Someone has to be blamed, while those watching on (who incidentally never seem to make mistakes in their own life) get to criticize often with straw man arguments.
Just go online and look at Leeds fans today slagging Bielsa off...
There are some reasoned and thoughtful posters on here and I understand people's passion but often it seems we are waiting to see people fall.
In the summer one of the biggest reason Moore shouldn't get the job is Dean Smith is way more experienced and tactically more astute. That argument seems to have gone very quiet now we realize that is not the case and his win percentage is way worse than Moore and the villa fans are now claiming he is tactically naive (Oh and they got to keep their loan signing who made a huge difference).

Thoughtful criticism is fine but honestly some people need to cheer up. We are still in the cup, there are 17 games left and while football is great there is more to life.
Off to put the tin hat on :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 02, 2019, 07:24:22 PM

Natural or not he's not as good as Brunt at it.

Yes he is even at this stage of his career, i've yet to see your mate given a man of the match after a game in the centre by anyone except yourself yet despite you slating him last week Field seemed to get that accolade from a couple of places.

Brunt will never be a central midfielder, even Northern Ireland with limited resources never used him there which speaks volumes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on February 02, 2019, 07:25:14 PM
I don't agree Field is as good as Brunt in central midfield.

Hopefully Johansen works out and plays alongside Barry with Phillips an Harper supporting and then Field, Livermore and Brunt in that order are the backup options and we never has to see Chris Brunt play central midfield again. I don't mind him getting a 15 minute spell on the left wing to put some crosses but that's about it. I'd also sell Livermore if we get a decent offer this summer.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 07:25:50 PM
Derby was a 50/50 game? Are you serious. They outplayed us in every sense.

Look at the stats - same possession same shots.  It started with a horrendous mistake by JRod in keeping with today.

Look at the defeats - beaten x2 by 'Boro who are inferior, literally bullied by Wigan and Hull due to selection mistakes, beaten by Blackburn when rotation was needed over Xmas, ridiculous defeat by Bolton 1st up, Derby (H).

So where do you think we should be in the table? 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2019, 07:29:32 PM
Probably the wrong time to post this but I think we have to remember Moore is very much in the apprenticeship stage , If I'm correct I don't think he's even been a manager at under 23 level anywhere or maybe even lower.
Yes he makes mistakes , that's only natural as frustrated as we get especially losing to the baseball capped one!
I for one am happy enough so far given the above and the mess the club has been in over the last 18 months , that's not to say I don't expect gradual improvement over time .
Its worth remembering Daniel Farke of Norwich had more lower level experience in Germany before becoming the current toast of Norfolk yet could easily have lost his job both last season and early this season . I believe this was the first season you could buy a ST at Carrow Road without the waiting list such was the feeling towards Farke and the club .
Personally quite enjoying trying something different rather than another dinosaur or a fraud like Pardew , Moore's an long term investment but of course he'll have to achieve .
Patience is the key even in this must win every game time of supporters.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 02, 2019, 07:31:03 PM
Probably the wrong time to post this but I think we have to remember Moore is very much in the apprenticeship stage , If I'm correct I don't think he's even been a manager at under 23 level anywhere or maybe even lower.
Yes he makes mistakes , that's only natural as frustrated as we get especially losing to the baseball capped one!
I for one am happy enough so far given the above and the mess the club has been in over the last 18 months , that's not to say I don't expect gradual improvement over time .
Its worth remembering Daniel Farke of Norwich had more lower level experience in Germany before becoming the current toast of Norfolk yet could easily have lost his job both last season and early this season . I believe this was the first season you could buy a ST at Carrow Road without the waiting list such was the feeling towards Farke and the club .
Personally quite enjoying trying something different rather than another dinosaur or a fraud like Pardew , Moore's an long term investment but of course he'll have to achieve .
Patience is the key even in this must win every game time of supporters.

I've just said elsewhere, i'm not convinced by the backroom staff, wheres the experience he needs alongside him ? Jones doesn't seem to be the man, Shan has not first team experience and I don't think Wayne Jacobs has either.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on February 02, 2019, 07:32:18 PM
DM is still learning his trade. Unfortunately it's with us when ideally he should have started at a lower team. He can't keep saying "we'll learn and move on" as that only buys you a certain amount of time. He's tactics haven't been good enough all season and mentally he hasn't got what it takes to be a manager.

I don't wish to see him sacked, but would rather have him as an assistant to a more qualified manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2019, 07:34:37 PM
I've just said elsewhere, i'm not convinced by the backroom staff, wheres the experience he needs alongside him ? Jones doesn't seem to be the man, Shan has not first team experience and I don't think Wayne Jacobs has either.
Jones has been about enough  , he should be up to it however I suspect we'd be playing 3 at the back If it was up to him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on February 02, 2019, 07:34:58 PM
Probably the wrong time to post this but I think we have to remember Moore is very much in the apprenticeship stage , If I'm correct I don't think he's even been a manager at under 23 level anywhere or maybe even lower.
Yes he makes mistakes , that's only natural as frustrated as we get especially losing to the baseball capped one!
I for one am happy enough so far given the above and the mess the club has been in over the last 18 months , that's not to say I don't expect gradual improvement over time .
Its worth remembering Daniel Farke of Norwich had more lower level experience in Germany before becoming the current toast of Norfolk yet could easily have lost his job both last season and early this season.  I believe this was the first season you could buy a ST at Carrow Road without the waiting list such was the feeling towards Farke and the club .
Personally quite enjoying trying something different rather than another dinosaur or a fraud like Pardew , Moore's an long term investment but of course he'll have to achieve .
Patience is the key even in this must win every game time of supporters.
I've just said elsewhere, i'm not convinced by the backroom staff, wheres the experience he needs alongside him ? Jones doesn't seem to be the man, Shan has not first team experience and I don't think Wayne Jacobs has either.

Good post Dexy. Going into this year most Norwich fans were unconvinced by Farke.
The point about the backroom staff is fair. Jones with Martinez meant their teams always conceded goals.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on February 02, 2019, 07:36:52 PM
DM is still learning his trade. Unfortunately it's with us when ideally he should have started at a lower team. He can't keep saying "we'll learn and move on" as that only buys you a certain amount of time. He's tactics haven't been good enough all season and mentally he hasn't got what it takes to be a manager.

I don't wish to see him sacked, but would rather have him as an assistant to a more qualified manager.

Like Pulis ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 02, 2019, 07:39:52 PM
Look at the stats - same possession same shots.  It started with a horrendous mistake by JRod in keeping with today.

Look at the defeats - beaten x2 by 'Boro who are inferior, literally bullied by Wigan and Hull due to selection mistakes, beaten by Blackburn when rotation was needed over Xmas, ridiculous defeat by Bolton 1st up, Derby (H).

So where do you think we should be in the table?

Roughly where we are for the reasons I’ve explained countless times.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 07:42:46 PM
I was concerned before the Jan window that:

further signings = further selection confusion

I think this will now prove to be the case with the team chopped and changed. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on February 02, 2019, 07:48:19 PM
Probably the wrong time to post this but I think we have to remember Moore is very much in the apprenticeship stage , If I'm correct I don't think he's even been a manager at under 23 level anywhere or maybe even lower.
Yes he makes mistakes , that's only natural as frustrated as we get especially losing to the baseball capped one!
I for one am happy enough so far given the above and the mess the club has been in over the last 18 months , that's not to say I don't expect gradual improvement over time .
Its worth remembering Daniel Farke of Norwich had more lower level experience in Germany before becoming the current toast of Norfolk yet could easily have lost his job both last season and early this season . I believe this was the first season you could buy a ST at Carrow Road without the waiting list such was the feeling towards Farke and the club .
Personally quite enjoying trying something different rather than another dinosaur or a fraud like Pardew , Moore's an long term investment but of course he'll have to achieve .
Patience is the key even in this must win every game time of supporters.

Correct about Norwich's expectations for this season due to their feelings towards Farke. I followed them for a short while after he was appointed and he struck me as being exceptional. I planned to back them for promotion this year as far back as this time last year largely on my impressions of him, and especially after they played Chelsea off the park in the FA Cup at their place. Changed my mind though after they sold a few important players, most notably Maddison. Damn and blast it. I think he'll go on to be one of the top managers in the game any case and is an indication of the managerial quality DM is up against this season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on February 02, 2019, 07:50:28 PM
Big Dave i feel should be doing better disregarding todays game. We have the best squad in terms of depth in the league that i have no doubt about. People keep saying he's learning but hes been in the game 40 years. I'm just not convinced by him at all.


Brunt is waayyyyy past it even at this level. Should never be anywhere near CM.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 02, 2019, 07:51:04 PM
Correct about Norwich's expectations for this season due to their feelings towards Farke. I followed them for a short while after he was appointed and he struck me as being exceptional. I planned to back them for promotion this year as far back as this time last year largely on my impressions of him, and especially after they played Chelsea off the park in the FA Cup at their place. Changed my mind though after they sold a few important players, most notably Maddison. Damn and blast it. I think he'll go on to be one of the top managers in the game any case and is an indication of the managerial quality DM is up against this season.


We outplayed Norwich a couple of weeks ago...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 07:52:15 PM
Roughly where we are for the reasons I’ve explained countless times.

With Sheff Utd above us because they are technically superior...…

No mate, we have consistently chucked games away for the record:

Bolton (H) 3 pts lost
Blackburn (H) 2 pts lost
Brentford (H) 2 pts lost
Sheff W (H) 2 pts lost
Blackburn (A) 1 pt lost
Norwich (H) 2 pts lost
'Boro (H) 3 pts lost

There you go 15pts straight away.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 02, 2019, 08:02:32 PM
With Sheff Utd above us because they are technically superior...…

No mate, we have consistently chucked games away for the record:

Bolton (H) 3 pts lost
Blackburn (H) 2 pts lost
Brentford (H) 2 pts lost
Sheff W (H) 2 pts lost
Blackburn (A) 1 pt lost
Norwich (H) 2 pts lost
'Boro (H) 3 pts lost

There you go 15pts straight away.

All true, but name me one team in this division that hasn’t done similar?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 02, 2019, 08:08:56 PM
I am extremely frustrated

Firstly, I have said previously , this is not George bushes war on terror (" you are with me or against me") it's a manager of a football team, you can be positive without being "a Moore lover" you can criticise without being a "Moore hater"
I've just listened to him on WM and I'm really concerned, he can talk all he wants about "no easy games and hurdles"but what he says doesn't stack up....when asked if johansen wasn't included because he was the fifth loan...Moore responded with no, saying it was because when new players come in they shouldn't go straight in to the matchday squad and he needs to get to know the players first"
...SO WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED WITH HOLGATE AND MURPHY ? The last four incoming
Holgate started straight away
Murphy came off bench
Montero made bench
Johansen needs to get to know players first, however the position (AM) that we need an option in because Livermore, field,brunt,Barry ,Harper are generally more defensive ....so we won't even have him on the bench, but we will have both Tosin and Barkley who both play CB and neither were used, no to freshen up midfield we put on brunt, who promptly waddles on and gets an assist for boro..... then spend 40 seconds of time added on wobbling from the left to take a corner from the right with his "wand" and the keeper makes the easiest catch he ever will

Then the starters
Keeper (like any other position it should be picked on form, Sam scares me , the defence look nervous, him and the silliness playing from the back cost the first...get bond (100% clean sheets) in
Barry, he is allowed one bad one , lord knows his legs must hurt having carried the midfield recently...but their no26 rattled him on about 25 mins and after that he was done...not like him
HRK...AKA messi 😂😂, he tries..but he should not be in the 11
Rodriguez...terrible again, when he went through on the keeper any forward in the world (even defreitus) would have got a penalty, he spends all match apologising and doing his hair....Gayle scored twice when he got in to central positions , would Liverpool have put rush on left wing, would Newcastle put shearer right wing?....he is the best finisher play him centrally

Yes the footballs better, yes the fans have come back (some even stay till the end) but he should not be beyond critic and whatever the arguments if we drop out the top 6 ....I think Lai will act.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 02, 2019, 08:14:59 PM
With Sheff Utd above us because they are technically superior...…

No mate, we have consistently chucked games away for the record:

Bolton (H) 3 pts lost
Blackburn (H) 2 pts lost
Brentford (H) 2 pts lost
Sheff W (H) 2 pts lost
Blackburn (A) 1 pt lost
Norwich (H) 2 pts lost
'Boro (H) 3 pts lost

There you go 15pts straight away.

Let it go will you. You asked me where I expected us to be. I answered roughly where we are. This was never going to be easy. Some said we had a weak squad. Others said the strongest. Some say he’s doing a great job, others not. Brunt, Livermore, Johnstone etc all split opinion. It’s all about opinions only I’m not fussed about your opinion so let it go.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2019, 08:19:08 PM
Let it go will you. You asked me where I expected us to be. I answered roughly where we are. This was never going to be easy. Some said we had a weak squad. Others said the strongest. Some say he’s doing a great job, others not. Brunt, Livermore, Johnstone etc all split opinion. It’s all about opinions only I’m not fussed about your opinion so let it go.

OK I'll let it go.  My final point: no one has contested the points chucked away, we should be top, and even though I criticize Moore, the players are culpable too.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albertbaggie on February 02, 2019, 08:44:46 PM
With Sheff Utd above us because they are technically superior...…

No mate, we have consistently chucked games away for the record:

Bolton (H) 3 pts lost
Blackburn (H) 2 pts lost
Brentford (H) 2 pts lost
Sheff W (H) 2 pts lost
Blackburn (A) 1 pt lost
Norwich (H) 2 pts lost
'Boro (H) 3 pts lost

There you go 15pts straight away.
You could probably go through and pick games where we nicked things too. Without thinking, villa, forest, sheff wed (a and h)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 02, 2019, 08:53:49 PM
Let it go will you. You asked me where I expected us to be. I answered roughly where we are. This was never going to be easy. Some said we had a weak squad. Others said the strongest. Some say he’s doing a great job, others not. Brunt, Livermore, Johnstone etc all split opinion. It’s all about opinions only I’m not fussed about your opinion so let it go.

If people think we don’t have a strong squad this season, I dread to think what they’ll make of it next season if we don’t get promoted...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on February 02, 2019, 09:34:16 PM
The strongest squad debate is strange to me. Last year alot of people said Pulis left the squad lopsided in a lot of positions.
No proper right back and no creative midfielder or predatory striker.
We then get relegated and sell our best player - Foster and our best defender Evans.
At the start of the season Brunt, Barry and Morrison divided opnion on whether we should retain them (most would have binned Barry). And now brunt apparently should be no-where near the squad.
Alot of people don't rate Johnstone, most want Robson-Kanu gone, a lot think Livermore is poor.
We had no right back so signed Mears and got Hoolohan on a free (why are we signing a 36 year old was the cry).
If you look at the players signed on deadline day Montero was on the bench for Swansea most games.

Since Thursday at 11pm I would say we have a "strong squad". Is it the best in the championship not sure.

 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on February 02, 2019, 09:34:46 PM
I am extremely frustrated

Firstly, I have said previously , this is not George bushes war on terror (" you are with me or against me") it's a manager of a football team, you can be positive without being "a Moore lover" you can criticise without being a "Moore hater"
I've just listened to him on WM and I'm really concerned, he can talk all he wants about "no easy games and hurdles"but what he says doesn't stack up....when asked if johansen wasn't included because he was the fifth loan...Moore responded with no, saying it was because when new players come in they shouldn't go straight in to the matchday squad and he needs to get to know the players first"
...SO WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED WITH HOLGATE AND MURPHY ? The last four incoming
Holgate started straight away
Murphy came off bench
Montero made bench
Johansen needs to get to know players first, however the position (AM) that we need an option in because Livermore, field,brunt,Barry ,Harper are generally more defensive ....so we won't even have him on the bench, but we will have both Tosin and Barkley who both play CB and neither were used, no to freshen up midfield we put on brunt, who promptly waddles on and gets an assist for boro..... then spend 40 seconds of time added on wobbling from the left to take a corner from the right with his "wand" and the keeper makes the easiest catch he ever will

Then the starters
Keeper (like any other position it should be picked on form, Sam scares me , the defence look nervous, him and the silliness playing from the back cost the first...get bond (100% clean sheets) in
Barry, he is allowed one bad one , lord knows his legs must hurt having carried the midfield recently...but their no26 rattled him on about 25 mins and after that he was done...not like him
HRK...AKA messi 😂😂, he tries..but he should not be in the 11
Rodriguez...terrible again, when he went through on the keeper any forward in the world (even defreitus) would have got a penalty, he spends all match apologising and doing his hair....Gayle scored twice when he got in to central positions , would Liverpool have put rush on left wing, would Newcastle put shearer right wing?....he is the best finisher play him centrally

Yes the footballs better, yes the fans have come back (some even stay till the end) but he should not be beyond critic and whatever the arguments if we drop out the top 6 ....I think Lai will act.

I think we stick with Darren Moore and see where it takes us.   The fact is that I would rather spend eternity.in purgatory than  have another manager like TP trying to take us up.  SMITH looked a good bet but hasn't exactly pulled up trees for the seals.  We have a young, promising manager who is an Albion man.  He is making mistakes but cerainly not making a complete Thierry of things.   Lets givje him time and something special might just happen
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on February 02, 2019, 09:35:12 PM

We outplayed Norwich a couple of weeks ago...

And drew.

My point though is that Norwich are decent this season almost entirely due to Farke (who I believe could well go on to manage at the highest of levels) and with us challenging Norwich for promotion DM is competing with him week in week out even if not directly.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on February 02, 2019, 10:10:27 PM
In years to come i think Moore will become a good manager, personally I wouldn't have given him the job just yet. this season is vital for the club to get promoted but it's a huge gamble to have given a novice the task. would be bitterly disappointed if this squad fails to achieve it because there's not many teams at this level that have the experience we have.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: leeiswba on February 02, 2019, 10:11:38 PM
Really don’t see how Moore can take criticism today, controlled the game and just individual mistakes cost us..... and there is no way he could have seen brunt come on and do what he did, I’ve seen nothing in the last 11 years either to predict he would have messed up so no way he can be blamed
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: graka on February 02, 2019, 10:40:03 PM
Moore and Jones are out of there depth
Continually tactically out thought
Too loyal to certain players
With our squad and budget we should be top 2 easily.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 02, 2019, 10:49:19 PM
Moore keeps saying we are trying to learn from our mistakes but week in week out coaches seem unable to teach or player's seem unable to crasp what coaches want them to do. Could be that we have to many chefs in kitchen? Either Darren let's Jones have complete control of training or he takes it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 02, 2019, 10:57:04 PM
Really don’t see how Moore can take criticism today, controlled the game and just individual mistakes cost us..... and there is no way he could have seen brunt come on and do what he did, I’ve seen nothing in the last 11 years either to predict he would have messed up so no way he can be blamed
I've seen nothing this season to suggest he was going to improve us when he came on ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 02, 2019, 11:24:48 PM
Darren Moore makes mistakes like every other manager does and you knew Pulis would win today (he always does against his former teams). Some of the vitriol and criticism seems over the top to me. Our modern "self-righteous" culture has become pervasive in football too. Someone has to be blamed, while those watching on (who incidentally never seem to make mistakes in their own life) get to criticize often with straw man arguments.
Just go online and look at Leeds fans today slagging Bielsa off...
There are some reasoned and thoughtful posters on here and I understand people's passion but often it seems we are waiting to see people fall.
In the summer one of the biggest reason Moore shouldn't get the job is Dean Smith is way more experienced and tactically more astute. That argument seems to have gone very quiet now we realize that is not the case and his win percentage is way worse than Moore and the villa fans are now claiming he is tactically naive (Oh and they got to keep their loan signing who made a huge difference).

Thoughtful criticism is fine but honestly some people need to cheer up. We are still in the cup, there are 17 games left and while football is great there is more to life.
Off to put the tin hat on :)

Best post here in a long time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 02, 2019, 11:27:41 PM
The strongest squad debate is strange to me. Last year alot of people said Pulis left the squad lopsided in a lot of positions.
No proper right back and no creative midfielder or predatory striker.
We then get relegated and sell our best player - Foster and our best defender Evans.
At the start of the season Brunt, Barry and Morrison divided opnion on whether we should retain them (most would have binned Barry). And now brunt apparently should be no-where near the squad.
Alot of people don't rate Johnstone, most want Robson-Kanu gone, a lot think Livermore is poor.
We had no right back so signed Mears and got Hoolohan on a free (why are we signing a 36 year old was the cry).
If you look at the players signed on deadline day Montero was on the bench for Swansea most games.

Since Thursday at 11pm I would say we have a "strong squad". Is it the best in the championship not sure.

Yep. People claim it’s a strong squad yet the same people criticise them non step.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on February 03, 2019, 08:24:40 AM
Honestly I don't think it is possible for Darren to win and if you accept that he has a reservoir of good will to draw on given his long association with the club then you have to wonder what chance any coach has of ever being good enough to be our Head Coach.

The white noise of bollox that greets every defeat and goes silent when we win is not coherent nor logical. Yesterday should put the subsitutions thing to bed he made them probably at the point in the game when those who argue for them would have made them. One of the subsitutes makes a mistake for what turns out to the be deciding goal that is obviously Dareen's fault. Plainly he should have turned to one of those footballers who never makes mistakes that were on the bench yesterday.

We have a strong squad apparently but if you go to the indivdual players threads and you would think we have a collection of donkeys "the worst ever" being not an uncommon description.

Some say that he should give kids more game time but you can understand why he and most other coaches do not take the risk lose and the fans turn often the same ones that were advocating the very thing you did. When that mood gathers to seething discontent you are out of a job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: jharman292 on February 03, 2019, 08:37:38 AM
Moore took some stick yesterday and rightly so. However that does not mean he can not be the man to lead this club back into the Premier League. He has made basic errors but he has also got plenty right, he just needs to me a couple of adjustments to turn us into a promotion team.

I still think tactically he has not got it right, im hoping the signings change that and provide the team with more balance.

Johnstone. Gets unfair critism in my opinion, not helped by the ease in which we allow players to come forward and get a shot away.

Defense. I think its pretty sorted now and we certainly have the best pair of full backs in the league. Perhaps and argument for bringing Tosin in for Dawson who i thought waa awful yesterday and got beat too easily for there first 2 goals.

Midfield 3. Moore has to find a consistant 3 that works. Not helped recently with injuries and suspensions but too often playing 3 side to side players who simply struggle to bridge the gap between midfield and attack. I really believe Harper is the best CM in the squad at the minute so hope Moore keeps him in. Livermore. Harper. Johansen. Would be my 3. Mixture of legs and quality

Front 3. Biggest problem in the team at the minute and one that Moore needs to correct before Stoke. Gayle left is madness. The best striker in the league constantly out wide crossing the ball into the box baffles me and that is down to Moore. JRod used to operate off the left, surely a better option? Gayles movement alone causes nightmares for defenders and is a game changer for us, something that has been wasted in recent weeks. HRK? Awful. I dont care about how he played yesterday, he simply doesnt offer enough and should not be starting games. Replaced by Murphy or Montero next week please Darren.

Subs. I would say this is where Moore has come in for the most abuse. His subs are often far too late in a game and a more reactive than proactive. Continues to bring on Brunt when everyone knows he is finished at this level. His set pieces are not even very good these days. Would like to see more attacking subs and we could start seeing more games out rather than settling and slipping up.

I really like Moore and im desperate for him to succeed but he has to make some changes otherwise i can see us slipping down table over the next month. I think in 4 weeks time, we will have a much better idea about how this season is going to finish up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 03, 2019, 08:42:08 AM
Honestly I don't think it is possible for Darren to win and if you accept that he has a reservoir of good will to draw on given his long association with the club then you have to wonder what chance any coach has of ever being good enough to be our Head Coach.

The white noise of bollox that greets every defeat and goes silent when we win is not coherent nor logical. Yesterday should put the subsitutions thing to bed he made them probably at the point in the game when those who argue for them would have made them. One of the subsitutes makes a mistake for what turns out to the be deciding goal that is obviously Dareen's fault. Plainly he should have turned to one of those footballers who never makes mistakes that were on the bench yesterday.

We have a strong squad apparently but if you go to the indivdual players threads and you would think we have a collection of donkeys "the worst ever" being not an uncommon description.

Some say that he should give kids more game time but you can understand why he and most other coaches do not take the risk lose and the fans turn often the same ones that were advocating the very thing you did. When that mood gathers to seething discontent you are out of a job.

You seem blind to the importance of promotion in May and the devastation of losing our best players as a consequence.

Any other club would be demanding promotion with our resources.

Darren Moore did a fine job as a WBA player however it is in the past.  He is handsomely paid to be Manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 03, 2019, 08:45:54 AM
Honestly I don't think it is possible for Darren to win and if you accept that he has a reservoir of good will to draw on given his long association with the club then you have to wonder what chance any coach has of ever being good enough to be our Head Coach.

The white noise of bollox that greets every defeat and goes silent when we win is not coherent nor logical. Yesterday should put the subsitutions thing to bed he made them probably at the point in the game when those who argue for them would have made them. One of the subsitutes makes a mistake for what turns out to the be deciding goal that is obviously Dareen's fault. Plainly he should have turned to one of those footballers who never makes mistakes that were on the bench yesterday.

We have a strong squad apparently but if you go to the indivdual players threads and you would think we have a collection of donkeys "the worst ever" being not an uncommon description.

Some say that he should give kids more game time but you can understand why he and most other coaches do not take the risk lose and the fans turn often the same ones that were advocating the very thing you did. When that mood gathers to seething discontent you are out of a job.

Agreed. Replace him and the next guy gets it in the neck. The modern football fan I’m afraid
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mr multivac on February 03, 2019, 09:10:12 AM
For Darren to succeed and ultimately the Baggies
He needs to put sentimentality to bed and become more ruthless
I’m
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on February 03, 2019, 09:15:16 AM
He is making mistakes for sure and for me the continuing ploy of Gayle out wide and starting of HRK are the biggest ones. I refuse to accept that Darren cost us the game yesterday however. Yes he brought Brunt on but the error that led to third goal was a once in a hundred occurrence.

I think team selection for the Stoke game needs to be carefully thought out and should include starting roles for at least two of the players who joined on Thursday.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 03, 2019, 09:42:56 AM
Honestly I don't think it is possible for Darren to win and if you accept that he has a reservoir of good will to draw on given his long association with the club then you have to wonder what chance any coach has of ever being good enough to be our Head Coach.

The white noise of bollox that greets every defeat and goes silent when we win is not coherent nor logical. Yesterday should put the subsitutions thing to bed he made them probably at the point in the game when those who argue for them would have made them. One of the subsitutes makes a mistake for what turns out to the be deciding goal that is obviously Dareen's fault. Plainly he should have turned to one of those footballers who never makes mistakes that were on the bench yesterday.

We have a strong squad apparently but if you go to the indivdual players threads and you would think we have a collection of donkeys "the worst ever" being not an uncommon description.

Some say that he should give kids more game time but you can understand why he and most other coaches do not take the risk lose and the fans turn often the same ones that were advocating the very thing you did. When that mood gathers to seething discontent you are out of a job.

As per usual an eloquently constructed post from a voice of intelligence, reason, logic and common sense, qualities that appear to to be lacking in some quarters.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 03, 2019, 10:07:28 AM
It is intelligence to be able to disect what happened during a game, offer insight to what went right/wrong and offer an opinion.  We are 30 games in not 10, people have been patient with Moore.

You just want to back Moore to the hilt and not offer an opinion.

What were you like with Pardew did he get this same blanket support even though he was incompetent?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on February 03, 2019, 10:14:10 AM
It is intelligence to be able to disect what happened during a game, offer insight to what went right/wrong and offer an opinion.  We are 30 games in not 10, people have been patient with Moore.

You just want to back Moore to the hilt and not offer an opinion.

What were you like with Pardew did he get this same blanket support even though he was incompetent?

Had Pardew won some of his first 6 games and we looked like a team with a realistic chance of escape, of course we would have all backed him, but we know what happened and that was totally unacceptable. Darren took over and against all odds we nearly got out of it. So he deserves our backing and he deserves the chance.

We have hit some slightly questionable form, but other teams will do the same. We are still in a very strong position and yesterday was just one game. It was pretty obvious what happened yesterday, we went into the lead, TP bought a couple on, slightly changed his game plan and the rest is well documented. I don't think our subs reacted to his and that for me was the issue - we just carried on regardless.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on February 03, 2019, 11:26:51 AM
The big thing for me yesterday was a lack of common sense. In his preparation, DM should have been telling his players to move the ball quickly, keep the ball on the deck, one touch and move. I'd say Peter Crouch is the only tall player I've seen who can move quickly. One thing tall defenders hate is being moved around at speed with the ball around their feet. We have nippy little players like Gayle, Jrod, Gibbs who all have pace and dribbling ability. We didn't use it. Vast majority of the balls into the box yesterday were chest or head height. Played right into Boros hands.

On a different day we wouldn't have made those errors and would have won the match 2-1. Mistakes happen, that's life. But I'm shocked at how so many people in life make big money who can't do their job well enough.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on February 03, 2019, 12:26:46 PM
I like Darren Moore, the football is much better, we have made some astute signings. But our home form has been awful for a while, Sheffield Wed, Brentford, Boro, we should have beat the lot of them with our squad. So he’s making mistakes and not getting the best out of the resources he has. Doesn’t mean I would want him out at all, still has my support. We are now in the business end of the season and we’ve got to get it sorted ASAP to have a chance of getting into the top two. Yesterday was a massive own goal.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 03, 2019, 12:27:25 PM
Some of the stuff on here "the white noise of bollox"? Really?

On Sunday I play football with a bunch of friends, I'd step in and fight anyone who started on them , I love them all, but when they make mistakes I tell them...that is life, that is football.
Darren Moore has had half a season of picking players in the wrong position, being tactically poor and continuing to say that they learn from mistakes and then clearly repeating
Because he seems nice, because he is not Pardew and because he played for us , some seem to be able to not see the obvious in front of them
Keeper is poor
Brunt is not a cm
We need a plan b
Gayle is our best CENTRE forward etc etc

Now, people can run around calling others names that's your choice, but at the moment there are very basic issues that are not being addressed by the management , listen to his aftermatch interview on WM it is shocking ...
Mr Lai will act
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on February 03, 2019, 02:19:58 PM
I don’t think Mr Lai is set to act any time soon, not for one minute. We shall see.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wodenson46 on February 03, 2019, 02:45:56 PM
completely agree with Standaman on this. Plus we lost a match to one of the wiliest managers in the game who schools his sides to use ‘the dark side’ to good effect. Ok we made mistakes but could and should have won that game 2-1, but we lost because of a couple of uncharacteristic errors from senior players and some very average goalkeeping. We need to take on board what we did wrong, look at some options, move on and get back to winning both in the cup and against Stoke. Some of the knee jerk stuff on here is so damn childish I wonder if......Oh never mind, get over it move on -rant over.. apologies to the more cosidered posters; the ones who keep this forum interesting and informative.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on February 03, 2019, 03:15:08 PM
Some of the stuff on here "the white noise of bollox"? Really?

On Sunday I play football with a bunch of friends, I'd step in and fight anyone who started on them , I love them all, but when they make mistakes I tell them...that is life, that is football.
Darren Moore has had half a season of picking players in the wrong position, being tactically poor and continuing to say that they learn from mistakes and then clearly repeating
Because he seems nice, because he is not Pardew and because he played for us , some seem to be able to not see the obvious in front of them
Keeper is poor
Brunt is not a cm
We need a plan b
Gayle is our best CENTRE forward etc etc

Now, people can run around calling others names that's your choice, but at the moment there are very basic issues that are not being addressed by the management , listen to his aftermatch interview on WM it is shocking ...
Mr Lai will act

Can we not have some continuity? The football we play is decent, acquisitions have been of good quality and he is one of our own.  This last fact counts for nowt amongst some but stands for something with me.   Why not let Darren Moore grown and develop with us whether that be in the PL or in the championship. Look at the managers that have been given that bit more time and shown loyalty...... Norwich and Bristol City reaping the rewards in our division.  Most of us would have taken Dean Smith in a heartbeat if Darren Moore had not been given the role...... His time so far at Villa has shown there is no guarantee of immediate success. 

One thing this season has taught me is that although getting to the PL with immediacy is our number one priority my footballing world will not fall apart if we fail.   We now appear to have got some good staff on the recruitment team and if they can find good players that can play on the front foot and score goals I'll be happy regardless.  Better that than play Pullisball in any division!!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on February 03, 2019, 03:38:45 PM
Moore and Jones are out of there depth
Continually tactically out thought
Too loyal to certain players
With our squad and budget we should be top 2 easily.

I think DM has done just about as well as could be expected considering the circumstances at the start of the season. He hasn't got everything right and he shouldn't be immune from criticism but I still maintain he has got considerably more right than wrong and there's no telling where we would be if another manager had been in charge over the last 6 months. We could easily have had a season like Stoke and the fact we are in contention at all at this stage is to DM's credit.

My thoughts on this also come down to the standard of our squad. I just don't agree that the squad - up to this week at least - has been anything special. We have an Xi that is as good as anything in the league, arguably the best in the division, but have lacked depth all season.

Brunt, Morrison, Bartley, HRK, Field, Harper, Mears, Townsend, Hoolahan and Sako (before he left), are really no better than what half of the division have as back-up. It's an ordinary second string. The purse strings haven't been opened for DM to strengthen and he only had 1 summer to build. The January window is always going to be difficult and likely come down to bringing in loan players.

After relegation we were facing a rebuilding process. Norwich are in their second year of being rebuilt under Farke. Leeds have been building their current squad for 2-3 years. Sheff Utd have been in a steady rebuilding process for almost 3 seasons under Wilder. Their squad is well built to get out of this division. Middlesbrough are in the second season of their post relegation re-build.

I don't believe for one minute our bench up to now has been any stronger than these clubs. In fact it's possibly weaker.

Following the window we now look a lot stronger, but these new players haven't featured yet (bar a late 15 minutes for Murphy).

If we keep our primary 14-15 players fit we can still push for an automatic spot. Johansen and the return of Phillips will transform our midfield for the run-in as we won't get promoted playing Harper, Field or Burnt in the midfield. Murphy coming in for Kanu will give us some more impetus up front.

DM has rectified our weak areas as well as could be expected in a short time-frame and again as well as could be expected. We could well be sitting here in May saying his business in January was a masterstroke, but these things are always easier to say in hindsight.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on February 03, 2019, 06:12:36 PM
I hate losing to the footballing Anti-Christ, even more so in circumstances such as those. Moore cannot be held accountable for individual mistakes, however that first goal came from players who have been told to play it out from the back continuing to do so, despite being perennially rubbish at it. Either get in some proper footballing centre halves, or let them do what they can do - stop trying to force them to do things they clearly aren't comfortable with.

And by the way, since we beat Reading 4-1 on October 6th, we've won just 2 of the following 9 home league games (lost 2, drawn 5). That is not promotion form, and we can't keep failing to see games out / pushing for winners, and expect to go up.

We're seven points off Leeds and Norwich at the start of a big month. Moore will have to motivate like never before, because it's clear he's going to continue to be caught out tactically.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 03, 2019, 08:14:54 PM
Moore and Jones are out of there depth
Continually tactically out thought
Too loyal to certain players
With our squad and budget we should be top 2 easily.

Too loyal to who?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on February 03, 2019, 10:13:46 PM
I genuinely think his main problem is that he naively thinks that if something works/appears to be working then there is no need to change. Regardless of the opposition, regardless of what the opposing manager is doing, regardless of the flow of the game at any particular moment. Even if something is clearly wrong, as long as we win or we are leading then he does absolutely nothing. Every time we win a game, he goes with the same unchanged team, regardless of how awful individual players have been. HRK had done nothing to warrant a start yesterday, regardless of the fact he wasn't as poor as he usually is.

He's far too reactionary. It took him an awful run of form before he switched from the 3 at the back and dropped Bartley and Brunt, despite the fact that it was painfully obvious after a couple of games that it wasn't working. Every substitution is like-for-like, and happens after we conceed, even if it was needed 10 mins earlier. He never changes the shape during a game, never forces the opposition manager to react, he's always on the back foot tactically even when we are leading.

This "we score as a team and we conceed as a team" nonsense is a load of waffle too. We score because Gayle, Rodriguez, Barnes and Phillips are too good for this division. We conceed because they've been instructed to p*ss around at the back, allow copious amounts of shots at a shakey goalkeeper, and because our midfield is always knackered and bypassed in the last 20 mins due to lack of and/or awful substitutions. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on February 03, 2019, 10:55:40 PM
My humble opinion; after the January window we have the best team in the league, even without Barnes.

I think failure to get promoted (automatically or play-offs) and the book stops with Moore - he was out thought yesterday by a man who many (rightly at times) call a tactical dinosaur.

We have the players to go up, the rest is on Moore and how he deals with it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: webral on February 04, 2019, 01:44:27 AM
DM has done a good job but his inflexibility and in game management leave a lot to be desired. Lack of using timely subs in a proactive manner or tweaking the system during a game has probably cost us a few points which is frustrating. When 3 at the back was getting us goals and points earlier in the season (even though we were conceding chances for fun and getting away with it on many occasions), DM was reluctant to change for a few games when other teams had done their homework. He's pretty much stuck with the 4-3-3 since Leeds at home where we've looked more solid generally even though he said horses for courses at the time.
He strikes me as someone who doesn't like to take risks, choosing his favourites, not playing kids earlier in the season, afraid to make substitutions if we're winning/drawing. I thought Saturday was crying out for an impact sub like Montero who'd been in good form with Swansea to dribble at their big defenders and potentially get a penalty but he never got on the pitch. I'd also like to have seen Johansen who sounds like the type of player we need although maybe his fitness kept him out along with the 5 loanee rule - I'd have left Tosin out. Barry was pressured into mistakes and Pulis knew exactly what to expect from us. Hopefully now that we have more options on the bench, they will be utilised to better effect during the remaining games.
I guess this year will be our best chance to get promoted for a while with older players leaving, loanees returning and sales of some of our high wage earners for whom we can get a transfer fee sold at the end of the season -  at least 3 I reckon from from Rondon, Rodrigues, Phillips, Livermore, Gibbs, Burke, Dawson, Hegazi. Any small amount in the transfer kitty will need to be better spent than Johnstone and Bartley to have any chance in the foreseeable. The powers that be will be well aware of this so it will be interesting to see if DM keeps his job if we don't make the play-offs. Overall, I think he's done a good job bringing the fans back with his positive approach, the players like him, fans are generally happy but the time has come to start making decisions to have a positive impact during games. If not and we don't make the play-offs, would you want him here next season?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on February 04, 2019, 06:20:04 AM
One thing is for sure all opposition managers will be targeting our players receiving the ball from the keeper now, as they know that there will be mistakes. DM has to mix it up know
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 04, 2019, 06:46:35 AM
I think we have a problem now. Darren has more players to choose from, and still wants to find places for Brunt and HRK.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on February 04, 2019, 07:00:06 AM
To clarify my "white noise of bollox" comments. I can make that comment in defence of any coach not just Darren Moore. Football is not a game of chess which is controlled by the Coaches on the touchline. However some of the comments made here and elsewhere suggest that it is.

So for instance blaming the coach for errors made by the players in the heat of the moment is nonsensical. Football is a game that lends itself to mistakes but never the less a coach should expect a certain level of basic competence from any professional footballer if the footballer does not deliver that then that's the footballers fault. Steven Gerrard slipped Brendan Rodgers didn't nor could he stop Gerrard from slipping. There is a huge amount of randomness in football and when you put 22 players on the pitch stuff happens that nobody planned for.

 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 04, 2019, 07:48:32 AM
To clarify my "white noise of bollox" comments. I can make that comment in defence of any coach not just Darren Moore. Football is not a game of chess which is controlled by the Coaches on the touchline. However some of the comments made here and elsewhere suggest that it is.

So for instance blaming the coach for errors made by the players in the heat of the moment is nonsensical. Football is a game that lends itself to mistakes but never the less a coach should expect a certain level of basic competence from any professional footballer if the footballer does not deliver that then that's the footballers fault. Steven Gerrard slipped Brendan Rodgers didn't nor could he stop Gerrard from slipping. There is a huge amount of randomness in football and when you put 22 players on the pitch stuff happens that nobody planned for.

 


You are referencing basic competence on a football pitch.

The evidence is that the Head Coach fails regularly to pick the correct players based on ability and then is reactive in terms of subs.

That is why there is "white noise" as you put it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 04, 2019, 08:10:26 AM
To clarify my "white noise of bollox" comments. I can make that comment in defence of any coach not just Darren Moore. Football is not a game of chess which is controlled by the Coaches on the touchline. However some of the comments made here and elsewhere suggest that it is.

So for instance blaming the coach for errors made by the players in the heat of the moment is nonsensical. Football is a game that lends itself to mistakes but never the less a coach should expect a certain level of basic competence from any professional footballer if the footballer does not deliver that then that's the footballers fault. Steven Gerrard slipped Brendan Rodgers didn't nor could he stop Gerrard from slipping. There is a huge amount of randomness in football and when you put 22 players on the pitch stuff happens that nobody planned for.
And to clarify my point
It’s not Bollox it’s quite a few people who all concur that for a variety of reasons it’s not happening and their view is valid

I agree with your point the gerrard and once theplayers are out there etc,but if they are continually set up to play from the back for instance,it will get found out (Saturday) and therefore put the players in a position to make mistakes .
Johnston is not looking good,Brunt is continually played and played in the wrong position,Barkley only came out due to suspension,Harper only came in due to injuries....the decisions that are made are enforced,very rarely does he make one voluntary and with positive impact .
If we beat Brighton and Bond makes it 3/3 cleansheets ...who do you think starts against Stoke ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 04, 2019, 09:35:36 AM
You are referencing basic competence on a football pitch.

The evidence is that the Head Coach fails regularly to pick the correct players based on ability and then is reactive in terms of subs.

That is why there is "white noise" as you put it.
If this is true and he's constantly picking the wrong players, how are we 4th in the table?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but please tell, what 11 would you have picked on Saturday?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 04, 2019, 10:28:31 AM
If this is true and he's constantly picking the wrong players, how are we 4th in the table?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but please tell, what 11 would you have picked on Saturday?

you have low standards, why are we 7pts off the top? 

our quality sees us through in some games such as Bolton where we were average at best.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 04, 2019, 10:42:48 AM
you have low standards, why are we 7pts off the top? 

our quality sees us through in some games such as Bolton where we were average at best.
You didn't answer the question though, what 11 would you have picked on Saturday?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on February 04, 2019, 10:51:13 AM
you would think with this squad of players top two is a given
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 04, 2019, 11:06:31 AM
you would think with this squad of players top two is a given
Sorry but who are these world beaters, we have at our disposal?
3 individual mistakes cost us on Saturday, which suggests the squad is not as good as some make out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on February 04, 2019, 11:08:23 AM
How many of Norwich, Leeds or Sheff Utd would you take?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 04, 2019, 11:38:20 AM
How many of Norwich, Leeds or Sheff Utd would you take?
I don't know, I don't watch them every week. From what I have seen though, they look pretty decent so I'm sure they have players who would give the likes of Johnstone, Dawson, Livermore, Brunt, Rodriguez, Field, Harper, Barry, Kanu and Morrison a run for their money.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 04, 2019, 12:02:43 PM
You didn't answer the question though, what 11 would you have picked on Saturday?

Looking forward to this
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on February 04, 2019, 12:13:56 PM
Looking forward to this

I hope you are not holding your breath !
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 04, 2019, 12:14:47 PM
Looking forward to this
Didn't realise this was a spectator sport
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on February 04, 2019, 12:16:11 PM
Didn't realise this was a spectator sport
the sport of kings!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 04, 2019, 12:17:02 PM
the sport of kings!!
Indeed
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 04, 2019, 12:18:26 PM
You didn't answer the question though, what 11 would you have picked on Saturday?
You didn't answer his question either. 15 all
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on February 04, 2019, 12:47:31 PM
If this is true and he's constantly picking the wrong players, how are we 4th in the table?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but please tell, what 11 would you have picked on Saturday?

Because the league is full of dross, and individual performances, notably from Gayle, Barnes, and Phillips, have seen us overcome tactical issues to win games.

Leeds have lost 4 of their last 6, and we don't seem to be any closer to them than we were 6 games ago. 2 wins in 9 at home. He's really starting to look out of his depth. If the fans can continually see the problems, why can't he?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on February 04, 2019, 12:54:25 PM
I'm a HUGE supporter of Darrens, however persisting with
a) Gayle out wide is just plain wrong, we are wasting perhaps our greatest asset.
b) Persisting with HRK who is not by any measure prolific or a provider is confusing to me
c) Keep putting CB in what is an alien position (over to you SmeDan) is suicidal and unfair on CB.

address these issues which you should be able to with the new guys and the fans should be supportive, or at least explain why you are persisting with confusing selections PLEASE.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 04, 2019, 12:56:16 PM
You didn't answer his question either. 15 all
Which one?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 04, 2019, 12:58:05 PM
Because the league is full of dross, and individual performances, notably from Gayle, Barnes, and Phillips, have seen us overcome tactical issues to win games.

Leeds have lost 4 of their last 6, and we don't seem to be any closer to them than we were 6 games ago. 2 wins in 9 at home. He's really starting to look out of his depth. If the fans can continually see the problems, why can't he?
That's a worse record than ours, is Bielsa also out of his depth?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 04, 2019, 01:01:31 PM
Because the league is full of dross, and individual performances, notably from Gayle, Barnes, and Phillips, have seen us overcome tactical issues to win games.

Leeds have lost 4 of their last 6, and we don't seem to be any closer to them than we were 6 games ago. 2 wins in 9 at home. He's really starting to look out of his depth. If the fans can continually see the problems, why can't he?

Seeing the problems is one thing and doing something about them is another. Barnes has gone, not Moore's fault, Phillips is injured, not Moore's fault, Livermoore seeing red, not Moore's fault. Loosing those two (Phillips & Barnes) means teams can mark and hold there shape better against Gayle (who was also injured for a while). He has let the kids have a go which many of Moore's critics wanted to see and now complain when we have dropped points.

What has Moore done? Identified weakness and bought in 3 very good players to counter that weakness.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on February 04, 2019, 01:04:45 PM
That's a worse record than ours, is Bielsa also out of his depth?

Given his long term track record, and the fact that he's doing better in the league with an arguably lesser group of players, I'm going to say no.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on February 04, 2019, 01:09:35 PM
Seeing the problems is one thing and doing something about them is another. Barnes has gone, not Moore's fault, Phillips is injured, not Moore's fault, Livermoore seeing red, not Moore's fault. Loosing those two (Phillips & Barnes) means teams can mark and hold there shape better against Gayle (who was also injured for a while). He has let the kids have a go which many of Moore's critics wanted to see and now complain when we have dropped points.

What has Moore done? Identified weakness and bought in 3 very good players to counter that weakness.

I'm not complaining about him playing the kids, in fact it's been one of the recent positives that they've come in and not looked out of place. But as with other things he's done, you get the feeling he was forced into it rather than it being his choice.

The problems go deeper than Barnes being gone, Phillips being injured, and Livermore suspended (although there is an argument that last one improved the team). It's tactical issues which you can understand to start with, but when they are apparent to fans and opposition managers, need to be corrected. But we've had the same issues from the opening day against Bolton, and all the personnel changes aren't going to affect that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 04, 2019, 01:28:59 PM
I don't know, I don't watch them every week. From what I have seen though, they look pretty decent so I'm sure they have players who would give the likes of Johnstone, Dawson, Livermore, Brunt, Rodriguez, Field, Harper, Barry, Kanu and Morrison a run for their money.

That's you trouble mate you haven't watched the other teams, so are oblivious to their strengths/weaknesses.

How much is Sheff Utd's / Leeds / Norwich's wage bill compared to ours?  (Sheff Utd operate on about 20% of the wage bill).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on February 04, 2019, 01:38:21 PM
Given his long term track record, and the fact that he's doing better in the league with an arguably lesser group of players, I'm going to say no.

The problem with saying they have a lesser group of players is that we only look strong when everyone is fit, and there has hardly been a run of games this season where that has happened.

Dawson missed out early in the season, Gayle missed a chunk of games not that far back, Barnes was recalled a few weeks ago and Phillips has missed the last handful of games. We also played the first 5 months without a recognised right-back, a major weakness.

On Saturday we fielded a very strong back four, and had Gayle up-front. Nobody else in that starting XI is exceptional for this level.

Field, Harper, Kanu, Johnstone, Brunt etc. wouldn't get near Boro's, Leeds', Norwich's or Sheffield Utd's XI's.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 04, 2019, 01:40:27 PM
My own observations from WBA season 2018/19:

1) Bartley played way too long and was making regular mistakes until he was belatedly removed.
2) Brunt CM for a spell of around 10 games running, why?
3) No natural right-back so Tosin played out of position for first half of the season.
4) Harper not selected until the New Year when he looks at home at this level.
5) HRK getting regular game time when looking below par.
6) Livermore quite ordinary, not enough pressure on his place.
7) Johnstone better than Bond or vice versa?
8) No settled starting 11 throughout the season.
9) 3 free agents signed, 2 of those short of game time (Sako, Hololahan).  Why was this?
10) 3 incoming players on 31st Jan are they better than what we have, where do they fit in?

You would expect mistakes early on, but a new Manager to learn from them over time. 

Moore has the benefit of overseeing training pretty much everyday.  What does he see?

Even Pulis has stated we have the best squad in the league (oblivious to some on here).

This is not some snap judgement, 30 odd games have now gone by.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 04, 2019, 01:41:23 PM
That's you trouble mate you haven't watched the other teams, so are oblivious to their strengths/weaknesses.

How much is Sheff Utd's / Leeds / Norwich's wage bill compared to ours?  (Sheff Utd operate on about 20% of the wage bill).
I said I don't watch them every week mate, which unless you have a time machine, I presume you don't either, unless you expect me to believe that you record every game in the division and watch the full 90 mins.
Your trouble mate, is that you have ingrained yourself so much in your dissent against Moore that you can't see any positives. You have the opposite of rose tinted specs.
I'm no happy clapper and am more than happy to criticise his shortcomings, but I also recognise his strengths. that's what a balanced argument is about.
I'm not interested in wage bills, they prove nothing. What I am happy to admit is that Norwich, Leeds and Sheffield United are slightly better than us at present. What that also means though, whether you like it or not, is that we are better than the other 20 teams in the division.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on February 04, 2019, 01:43:57 PM
Nice to see we are all MATES !!   ;D :D ::)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 04, 2019, 01:50:04 PM
I said I don't watch them every week mate, which unless you have a time machine, I presume you don't either, unless you expect me to believe that you record every game in the division and watch the full 90 mins.
Your trouble mate, is that you have ingrained yourself so much in your dissent against Moore that you can't see any positives. You have the opposite of rose tinted specs.
I'm no happy clapper and am more than happy to criticise his shortcomings, but I also recognise his strengths. that's what a balanced argument is about.
I'm not interested in wage bills, they prove nothing. What I am happy to admit is that Norwich, Leeds and Sheffield United are slightly better than us at present. What that also means though, whether you like it or not, is that we are better than the other 20 teams in the division.

Bollox.  When have you criticised him? 

That's wonderful that we are above the other 20 clubs, we can have an open-top bus in May to celebrate! 

We should be one of the leading lights in this division because we have more MONEY.  So with that comes expectation.  It seems you are content with us being the underdogs.  I think you are stuck in a time machine: 1993-94 under Burkinshaw!

There's a lot of dissenting voices (not only mine).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 04, 2019, 01:52:06 PM
I'm not complaining about him playing the kids, in fact it's been one of the recent positives that they've come in and not looked out of place. But as with other things he's done, you get the feeling he was forced into it rather than it being his choice.

The problems go deeper than Barnes being gone, Phillips being injured, and Livermore suspended (although there is an argument that last one improved the team). It's tactical issues which you can understand to start with, but when they are apparent to fans and opposition managers, need to be corrected. But we've had the same issues from the opening day against Bolton, and all the personnel changes aren't going to affect that.

The Bolton game? The one where we had 20 odd shots hit the woodwork several times bought on Burke to see out the last 15 and conceded a last minute goal. His options on the bench were woeful for that game plus the backroom staff was an absolute mess from DoF down and our first team coach had been busy beating England in the 3rd place world cup final.

The 3-5-2 worked well until the Blues game when everyone worked out how to beat us at it pushing and he rightfully changed tactics to 4-3-3. There is a question mark if we should re-look at 4,4,2 but that still gives me nightmares from last season. I would say after the appointment of Pardrew he was given the same mandate to play more attractive football.

Looking at his tactical change on Wednesday when Pulis went behind and chucked on the kitchen sink at us. Just before their goal Moor'e went 4-4-2, taking off HRK for Murphy.  He then took Barry and Field off for Livermore and Brunt, both very experienced and capable of seeing 20 minutes of a game out. Looking at what was left on the bench I fail to see how those decisions are tactically incompetent.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 04, 2019, 02:00:07 PM
Bollox.  When have you criticised him

That's wonderful that we are above the other 20 clubs, we can have an open-top bus in May to celebrate! 

We should be one of the leading lights in this division because we have more MONEY.  So with that comes expectation.  It seems you are content with us being the underdogs.  I think you are stuck in a time machine: 1993-94 under Burkinshaw!

There's a lot of dissenting voices (not only mine).
The same as everyone else with regards 3 at the back, Brunt in CM, sub timings etc. If you take your dirty brown specs off you may actually be able to read a balanced post.
He's not perfect and does make mistakes, but he's doing a decent job, with what he has available
You still haven't answered my earlier question about what 11 you would have sent out on Saturday. If he made such an almighty hash of his selection, then surely that should be easy?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 04, 2019, 02:05:51 PM
The same as everyone else with regards 3 at the back, Brunt in CM, sub timings etc. If you take your dirty brown specs off you may actually be able to read a balanced post.
He's not perfect and does make mistakes, but he's doing a decent job, with what he has available
You still haven't answered my earlier question about what 11 you would have sent out on Saturday. If he made such an almighty hash of his selection, then surely that should be easy?
Nor have you answered his question of why we are 7 points behind ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 04, 2019, 02:07:19 PM
I am the umpire here by the way
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 04, 2019, 02:13:34 PM
Nor have you answered his question of why we are 7 points behind ?
I thought I had addressed that but, just for clarity.
We are 7 points behind because they have won or drawn more games than we have. This leads me to believe that they are slightly better than us at this moment in time.
Regardless of wages or reputations, they have a better, more consistent starting 11.
Moore cannot be absolved from responsibility for this but nor should he be hung out to dry.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on February 04, 2019, 02:14:25 PM
That's you trouble mate you haven't watched the other teams, so are oblivious to their strengths/weaknesses.

How much is Sheff Utd's / Leeds / Norwich's wage bill compared to ours?  (Sheff Utd operate on about 20% of the wage bill).

That tells you more about the ridiculous salaries being handed out in the Premier League.  Decent players they may be, but there is no way that the like of Dawson, 36 year old Barry, Livermore, JRod and HRK just for example are worth the money they are being paid in comparison to their peers at the like of Sheff Utd if your 20% stat is any where near correct. They are NOT 5 times better players they just signed a contract at the right time.   

I like HRK.....but i try not to think about the long term contract he was given when he is obviously no more than an average Championship journey-man who would not get in any of the top four sides on a regular basis. We all admire Dawson but saw him ripped up on Saturday and Barry is just outrun at times.  Livermore is an incredibly average midfielder who would not stand out in any of the top teams and Brunty must be on a decent wedge purely from his yearly % inflation rise.    JRod who i imagine is another high earner is a technically decent player but i just don't see him being top level any more (Burnley were interested, but then they just took Crouchy). I can only make a guess at what their combined wage must be?  Being on a Premier League wage (even after the reduction) does not automatically make a Premier League player.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 04, 2019, 02:15:18 PM
I thought I had addressed that but, just for clarity.
We are 7 points behind because they have won or drawn more games than we have. This leads me to believe that they are slightly better than us at this moment in time.
Regardless of wages or reputations, they have a better, more consistent starting 11.
Moore cannot be absolved from responsibility for this but nor should he be hung out to dry.
40-30
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 04, 2019, 02:15:30 PM
I thought I had addressed that but, just for clarity.
We are 7 points behind because they have won or drawn more games than we have. This leads me to believe that they are slightly better than us at this moment in time.
Regardless of wages or reputations, they have a better, more consistent starting 11.
Moore cannot be absolved from responsibility for this but nor should he be hung out to dry.

We also have a game in hand....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 04, 2019, 02:30:33 PM
The same as everyone else with regards 3 at the back, Brunt in CM, sub timings etc. If you take your dirty brown specs off you may actually be able to read a balanced post.
He's not perfect and does make mistakes, but he's doing a decent job, with what he has available
You still haven't answered my earlier question about what 11 you would have sent out on Saturday. If he made such an almighty hash of his selection, then surely that should be easy?

Hey sunshine, what does this "dirty brown specs" business mean?  I along with loads of others have the gall to criticise our Manager yet the mud is slung in my direction, why hit a nerve?

Middlesbrough is 1/30 of games played which 3.33% of league games, not a big sample is it to use? 

The fact that mistakes have been made regularly from earlier in the season means we are behind the 8 ball in terms of Top Two.  Therefore, maybe there is "not much credit left in the bank".

Middlesbrough (H)

1) Bond
2) Holgate
3) Gibbs
4) Dawson
5) Hegazi
6) Barry
7) Harper
8) Livermore
9) J Rod
10) Gayle
11) Leko

Subs:

Johnstone
Tosin
Townsend
Field
Johansen
Montero
HRK
 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 04, 2019, 02:44:26 PM
Hey sunshine, what does this "dirty brown specs" business mean?  I along with loads of others have the gall to criticise our Manager yet the mud is slung in my direction, why hit a nerve?

Middlesbrough is 1/30 of games played which 3.33% of league games, not a big sample is it to use? 

The fact that mistakes have been made regularly from earlier in the season means we are behind the 8 ball in terms of Top Two.  Therefore, maybe there is "not much credit left in the bank".

Middlesbrough (H)

1) Bond
2) Holgate
3) Gibbs
4) Dawson
5) Hegazi
6) Barry
7) Harper
8) Livermore
9) J Rod
10) Gayle
11) Leko

Subs:

Johnstone
Tosin
Townsend
Field
Johansen
Montero
HRK
 
Deuce, and I would call it a day there chaps , you are never going to agree, and I shall retire as umpire. For what it's worth Darren is not good enough and I believe it will all end in tears.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 04, 2019, 02:49:37 PM
I hope we finish Top 2, and me and the other critics can eat humble pie over the Summer.

Over to the Manager and Players.....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 04, 2019, 03:01:10 PM
Hey sunshine, what does this "dirty brown specs" business mean?  I along with loads of others have the gall to criticise our Manager yet the mud is slung in my direction, why hit a nerve?

Middlesbrough is 1/30 of games played which 3.33% of league games, not a big sample is it to use? 

The fact that mistakes have been made regularly from earlier in the season means we are behind the 8 ball in terms of Top Two.  Therefore, maybe there is "not much credit left in the bank".

Middlesbrough (H)

1) Bond
2) Holgate
3) Gibbs
4) Dawson
5) Hegazi
6) Barry
7) Harper
8) Livermore
9) J Rod
10) Gayle
11) Leko

Subs:

Johnstone
Tosin
Townsend
Field
Johansen
Montero
HRK
 
That was in response to this statement:
Bollox.  When have you criticised him? As I took it that you were suggesting that I looked through "Rose tinted glasses", therefore a little self indulgent play on words. Sorry sunshine.

Fair play on that 11. Personally I don't think Leko has done anywhere near enough to start, whilst Field had done enough to keep his shirt and played pretty well to be fair. I'll give you Bond though, that's the only one that could feasibly have made any difference to the result. I've been critical of Johnstone myself and have already said in another thread that if Bond plays well on Wednesday then he should be considered.

Leko aside, you may get your chosen 11 on Saturday, so the proof may be in the pudding.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on February 04, 2019, 03:09:33 PM
The same as everyone else with regards 3 at the back, Brunt in CM, sub timings etc. If you take your dirty brown specs off you may actually be able to read a balanced post.
He's not perfect and does make mistakes, but he's doing a decent job, with what he has available
You still haven't answered my earlier question about what 11 you would have sent out on Saturday. If he made such an almighty hash of his selection, then surely that should be easy?

perhaps I can help

G.Banks
Roberto Carlos
Maldini
Koemans
Statham
Maradona
Robson
Iniesta
Zidane
Messi
Pele

subs:- Joe Mayo, Jason Van Blerk, Tininhio, Scott Darlow, who needs bloody subs anyway withthat team



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 04, 2019, 03:10:04 PM
Has to sort out defense or we will be lucky to get into play offs, I'd say 90 percent of Forum are happy with back four that started against boro. Bond looks a better option in goal from what I've seen of him so Darren should give him a go and maybe he's the solution to leaky back line. Midfield has been crying out for a player who can put his foot on ball and pick a pass either Wes or Johansen could fill that role. Maybe we need to go 442 to see if this formation suits players, last point Brunt and HRK should be no where near first team.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on February 04, 2019, 03:18:11 PM
He was under absolutely no pressure to bring Brunt on. You can't blame him for individual mistakes, but you can blame him for bringing on an ageing player in a position he has never looked comfortable in when there was no need to. Bar Jacko, would anyone on here have brought Brunt on at that moment in time? It should have been Montero and a shift to 4231. Even a not-quite-fit Johansen would have been a better option.

As for the Johnstone/Barry mistake, again not his direct fault, but why is he asking a goalkeeper with poor distribution to play as a sweeper keeper? He's no Neuer or Alisson, he's proven that consistently this season and been caught out doing it multiple times, anyone with an ounce of tactical nous would either stop the keeper playing it out with his feet or change to a different keeper.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 04, 2019, 03:19:11 PM
perhaps I can help

G.Banks
Roberto Carlos
Maldini
Koemans
Statham
Maradona
Robson
Iniesta
Zidane
Messi
Pele

subs:- Joe Mayo, Jason Van Blerk, Tininhio, Scott Darlow, who needs bloody subs anyway withthat team


and the point of this is......
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on February 04, 2019, 03:31:48 PM
He was under absolutely no pressure to bring Brunt on. You can't blame him for individual mistakes, but you can blame him for bringing on an ageing player in a position he has never looked comfortable in when there was no need to. Bar Jacko, would anyone on here have brought Brunt on at that moment in time? It should have been Montero and a shift to 4231. Even a not-quite-fit Johansen would have been a better option.

As for the Johnstone/Barry mistake, again not his direct fault, but why is he asking a goalkeeper with poor distribution to play as a sweeper keeper? He's no Neuer or Alisson, he's proven that consistently this season and been caught out doing it multiple times, anyone with an ounce of tactical nous would either stop the keeper playing it out with his feet or change to a different keeper.

Johansen wasn't in the match day squad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on February 04, 2019, 03:41:51 PM
and the point of this is......

The point is that, you criticised anothers view, the other perfectly reasonably asked you for alternative views and you ignored the request, so
a) I sarcastically (I cant type "took the urine") responded on your behalf.
b) sarcastically I was trying to show that DM had his hands tied to a large degree, which will change as the new guys bed in (I hope).

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on February 04, 2019, 04:14:26 PM
Johansen wasn't in the match day squad.

I know he wasn't. He should have been.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on February 04, 2019, 04:17:12 PM
Sorry but who are these world beaters, we have at our disposal?
3 individual mistakes cost us on Saturday, which suggests the squad is not as good as some make out.

No one mentioned world beaters, this is the Championship - not the Champions league so world beaters are not required.

It wasn't individual errors either, it was bad management which cost us the game. Try playing the ball out from the back without the quality to do it and you will get punished which has happened several times this season already, one being against Derby too.
This could have been stopped if we weren't so stubborn on short passes from the back. I like this strategy but Johnstone should be allowed to hoof it every now and then.

The second goal was terrible defending/lack of closing down, by no means was it an individual error, it was a team error and should be worked on in training.

And the final goal was an individual error from Brunt but it begs the question why on earth was he even brought on, and how many points has he cost us this season?

On paper, our team is good enough for top 2. I have seen us play all teams this season, we have so much more quality than most...teams would kill for the likes of Gibbs, Dawson, Phillips, J-Rod, Gayle, Barnes, Barry and Holgate.

Even the likes of Adibayaro, Livermore, Hegazi, Johnstone, Harper etc would walk into most other teams.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hillsm on February 04, 2019, 06:17:38 PM
I didn't want him to get the job in the summer as I didn't think he was up to the task.

I expected us to  have a season like how Stoke's is panning out, so in that respect we are exceeding my expectations, however, I think this is down to the quality we have in the squad that is pulling us through certain matches - Bolton for example, than anything DM is doing.
 
It's quite galling the number of mistakes that DM is making and how he continues to repeat them week after week. He offers no meaningful insight after matches, just spouts on about the need to learn from mistakes. Well 60% of the season has already passed, basic mistakes should not be happening at this stage. Granted we look a bit more solid defensively but still are nowhere near a side that you could be confident of grinding out the clean sheets or holding onto a narrow lead in the last fifteen minutes of a match.

I can see us making the play-offs; failing to go up; losing Rondon, Phillips, JRod, Dawson, Gibbs and Gayle in the summer; making a poor start to next season and then this experiment will be over come November time. The ramifications going forward though means we will probably be set back about a decade languishing in the second tier.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: MarkW on February 04, 2019, 06:36:26 PM
Cut out the petty digs: the "sunshine's", the "softys" or posts will be removed
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 04, 2019, 06:44:42 PM
The point is that, you criticised anothers view, the other perfectly reasonably asked you for alternative views and you ignored the request, so
a) I sarcastically (I cant type "took the urine") responded on your behalf.
b) sarcastically I was trying to show that DM had his hands tied to a large degree, which will change as the new guys bed in (I hope).

I'm still waiting for a response to this

"With Sheff Utd above us because they are technically superior...…

No mate, we have consistently chucked games away for the record:

Bolton (H) 3 pts lost
Blackburn (H) 2 pts lost
Brentford (H) 2 pts lost
Sheff W (H) 2 pts lost
Blackburn (A) 1 pt lost
Norwich (H) 2 pts lost
'Boro (H) 3 pts lost

There you go 15pts straight away."

All true, but name me one team in this division that hasn’t done similar?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on February 04, 2019, 06:56:54 PM
I'm still waiting for a response to this

"With Sheff Utd above us because they are technically superior...…

No mate, we have consistently chucked games away for the record:

Bolton (H) 3 pts lost
Blackburn (H) 2 pts lost
Brentford (H) 2 pts lost
Sheff W (H) 2 pts lost
Blackburn (A) 1 pt lost
Norwich (H) 2 pts lost
'Boro (H) 3 pts lost

There you go 15pts straight away."

All true, but name me one team in this division that hasn’t done similar?


That may be true but we don't aspire to be like every other team.

The biggest problem we have is throwing away leads at home. When we are level or even behind in games we look totally different to when we go in front. When we lead the visual difference is clearly noticeable, we invite teams on to us and we go on the back foot. It's happened all season and the result is we more often than not end up conceding an equaliser - (worse at the weekend).

I don't know the reason for this whether it's meant to be tactical or it's a subconscious thing, but it has to stop. We've won something like 2 of the last 9 at home in the league. That's not good enough and most of that is us throwing away a lead in a game we've previously looked in control of. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 04, 2019, 07:02:42 PM

That may be true but we don't aspire to be like every other team.

The biggest problem we have is throwing away leads at home. When we are level or even behind in games we look totally different to when we go in front. When we lead the visual difference is clearly noticeable, we invite teams on to us and we go on the back foot. It's happened all season and the result is we more often than not end up conceding an equaliser - (worse at the weekend).

I don't know the reason for this whether it's meant to be tactical or it's a subconscious thing, but it has to stop. We've won something like 2 of the last 9 at home in the league. That's not good enough and most of that is us throwing away a lead in a game we've previously looked in control of.

I wasn’t asking about aspirations, but comparitors of which there are a few in this league as it is a completion and my the question, regardless, is still a valid one.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 04, 2019, 07:06:01 PM
I'm still waiting for a response to this

"With Sheff Utd above us because they are technically superior...…

No mate, we have consistently chucked games away for the record:

Bolton (H) 3 pts lost
Blackburn (H) 2 pts lost
Brentford (H) 2 pts lost
Sheff W (H) 2 pts lost
Blackburn (A) 1 pt lost
Norwich (H) 2 pts lost
'Boro (H) 3 pts lost

There you go 15pts straight away."

All true, but name me one team in this division that hasn’t done similar?

Answer is no other team has wasted as many points as us.

The reason is technically we are the best team in the division.

Other teams scrap, battle, graft, work for their points because they don’t have as many match winners that can turn a game on its head.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 04, 2019, 07:13:49 PM
Answer is no other team has wasted as many points as us.

The reason is technically we are the best team in the division.

Other teams scrap, battle, graft, work for their points because they don’t have as many match winners that can turn a game on its head.

You are still appear to be unwilling to answer question with specifics and it makes me wonder why?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 04, 2019, 07:20:45 PM
You are still appear to be unwilling to answer question with specifics and it makes me wonder why?

I’ve answered your question and don’t need to engage further.  I’ve no idea why you feel a need to interrogate this further?  We’ve both got WBA passion that’s where the connection ends.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 04, 2019, 07:26:55 PM
I’ve answered your question and don’t need to engage further.  I’ve no idea why you feel a need to interrogate this further?  We’ve both got WBA passion that’s where the connection ends.

It appears that you make statements but, when challengedare, are unable to justify your position, which would suggest you have a weak argument and then resort to personal distractions.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 04, 2019, 07:44:32 PM
It appears that you make statements but, when challengedare, are unable to justify your position, which would suggest you have a weak argument and then resort to personal distractions.

Dear or dear this is hard work.

Interrogate the other Moore detractors and there are many of them......

For the record you never answered my question on whether you gave blanket support to Pardew or got on his back early like most others?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 04, 2019, 07:46:18 PM
Dear or dear this is hard work.

Interrogate the other Moore detractors and there are many of them......

For the record you never answered my question on whether you gave blanket support to Pardew or got on his back early like most others?

I take it you have no support for your previous assertions, I’m not surprised as there aren’t any
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 04, 2019, 07:52:24 PM
I take it you have no support for your previous assertions, I’m not surprised as there aren’t any

You talk in riddles and clearly don’t like to be challenged.  All because I hold a different opinion to you.  You still don’t answer the question.  I’m not prepared to waste any more time with you, so if you don’t mind I will leave it there........
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 04, 2019, 08:08:22 PM
You talk in riddles and clearly don’t like to be challenged.  All because I hold a different opinion to you.  You still don’t answer the question.  I’m not prepared to waste any more time with you, so if you don’t mind I will leave it there........

An observation, this is a forum where there are many differing views, beliefs, and opinions, as a result we all receive, understandably, many challenges to justify and support a statement, belief, point of view et al we make. But I do note from your posts a strong feeling of annoyance, displeasure and hostility, it was never my intention to provoke any of those within you but to discuss, debate and challenge, I have no issue with you feeling you can no longer engage with me and wish you all the very best for the future.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 04, 2019, 08:27:16 PM
An observation, this is a forum where there are many differing views, beliefs, and opinions, as a result we all receive, understandably, many challenges to justify and support a statement, belief, point of view et al we make. But I do note from your posts a strong feeling of annoyance, displeasure and hostility, it was never my intention to provoke any of those within you but to discuss, debate and challenge, I have no issue with you feeling you can no longer engage with me and wish you all the very best for the future.

For the record it is disappointing my views were construed in this way.  I don't hold grudges against anyone.  I'm sure you are a very decent person.  I wish you many years of health, happiness and Hawthorns visits.  Regards.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on February 04, 2019, 09:30:15 PM
what are you talking about?????? 

you softy.....

all I have done is have a reasoned debate, there was no abuse (banning orders for inappropriate behaviour anyway).

What alternative views, what does this actually mean?

I stated my preferred team so provided an answer?

MOORE - Hands tied?  In what way?  We have a larger squad than any other in the division!

Where was Darren Moore at CB in your best all-time 11?

sorry for the delay responding, was working and all that, anyway,

1. Softy ??        I'll treat that with the contempt it deserves.
2. reasoned debate !        not reasoned and hardly a debate more of an argument,
3. Alternative views?       do you really need an explanation for those 2 words ?
4. Stated team,         fair play, I missed that post, my apologies, actually I withdraw my apologies, it may be construed as being soft.
5. Moore hands tied,       No Right back, injuries, weak bench, suspension of Livermore, new lads not upto speed ......
6. Darren Moore best all time team ?      I loved the guy as a baggies player but you were discussing his managerial ability so its totally irrelevant you asking this question

If you had said this argument is none of my business then fair enough, as i was sticking my oar in, where it clearly wasn't wanted.

Don't bother responding as we won't ever agree, At this point in time I back DM, you don't,  end of !


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 04, 2019, 09:41:05 PM
Johansen wasn't in the match day squad.
And do you know why?
On WM afterwards Moore said"new players can't come in to the match day squad straightaway, they have to spend time with the players and staff first and get to know them"
Not only concerned that this is like an FA version of grinder, but totally weird considering the last four signings
Holgate straight in starting
Murphy straight on bench came on
Montero straight on bench
Johansen......currently shaking hands with each player at the training ground and learning their tastes in music
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 04, 2019, 09:42:20 PM
sorry for the delay responding, was working and all that, anyway,

1. Softy ??        I'll treat that with the contempt it deserves.
2. reasoned debate !        not reasoned and hardly a debate more of an argument,
3. Alternative views?       do you really need an explanation for those 2 words ?
4. Stated team,         fair play, I missed that post, my apologies, actually I withdraw my apologies, it may be construed as being soft.
5. Moore hands tied,       No Right back, injuries, weak bench, suspension of Livermore, new lads not upto speed ......
6. Darren Moore best all time team ?      I loved the guy as a baggies player but you were discussing his managerial ability so its totally irrelevant you asking this question

If you had said this argument is none of my business then fair enough, as i was sticking my oar in, where it clearly wasn't wanted.

Don't bother responding as we won't ever agree, At this point in time I back DM, you don't,  end of !




Debate closed.

All the best and Kind Regards.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on February 04, 2019, 10:17:09 PM
Well I thought this friendly chat was over at 2.15 this afternoon...how wrong was I!  ;D

Amazing what happens when 'dark arts' wins the day

We will be bringing the political thread back next :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on February 04, 2019, 10:25:22 PM
And do you know why?
On WM afterwards Moore said"new players can't come in to the match day squad straightaway, they have to spend time with the players and staff first and get to know them"
Not only concerned that this is like an FA version of grinder, but totally weird considering the last four signings
Holgate straight in starting
Murphy straight on bench came on
Montero straight on bench
Johansen......currently shaking hands with each player at the training ground and learning their tastes in music


Tosin
Gayle
Holgate       = 5 allowed loan players
Murphy
Montero

Johansen couldn't make the squad with Tosin in it
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 04, 2019, 10:26:17 PM

Tosin
Gayle
Holgate       = 5 allowed loan players
Murphy
Montero

Johansen couldn't make the squad with Tosin in it

To be fair what zippy has posted regarding Johansen is what Darren Moore said on WM after the game
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on February 04, 2019, 10:31:04 PM
An observation, this is a forum where there are many differing views, beliefs, and opinions, as a result we all receive, understandably, many challenges to justify and support a statement, belief, point of view et al we make. But I do note from your posts a strong feeling of annoyance, displeasure and hostility, it was never my intention to provoke any of those within you but to discuss, debate and challenge, I have no issue with you feeling you can no longer engage with me and wish you all the very best for the future.

Did you just break up with him? This bromance is killing me. As you were...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on February 04, 2019, 10:31:37 PM
And do you know why?
On WM afterwards Moore said"new players can't come in to the match day squad straightaway, they have to spend time with the players and staff first and get to know them"
Not only concerned that this is like an FA version of grinder, but totally weird considering the last four signings
Holgate straight in starting
Murphy straight on bench came on
Montero straight on bench
Johansen......currently shaking hands with each player at the training ground and learning their tastes in music

A bit like his comment about always giving the kids a chance yet didn’t bring Harper on when four nil up at Rotherham away .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on February 04, 2019, 10:35:04 PM
To be fair what zippy has posted regarding Johansen is what Darren Moore said on WM after the game

Moore might be right, Montero & Murphy trained with the squad on Friday, don't know if Johansen did or not, but in any case he couldn't have been in the squad with Tosin.
It might not be possible for all three new loanees to play in the same squad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 04, 2019, 10:36:28 PM
Moore might be right, Montero & Murphy trained with the squad on Friday, don't know if Johansen did or not, but in any case he couldn't have been in the squad with Tosin.
It might not be possible for all three new loanees to play in the same squad.


Tosin will surely miss out going forward, having him and Bartley on the bench is utterly pointless.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 04, 2019, 10:38:02 PM
Did you just break up with him? This bromance is killing me. As you were...

No, he dumped me  :D ;D :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 04, 2019, 11:06:38 PM
Moore might be right, Montero & Murphy trained with the squad on Friday, don't know if Johansen did or not, but in any case he couldn't have been in the squad with Tosin.
It might not be possible for all three new loanees to play in the same squad.

Yes he did train on Friday same as the other 2 as there were photos of him in that session, so what Moore said makes no sense given they all joined the same day.

The odds are Tosin will be left out or should be given we have more than enough centre half cover.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 04, 2019, 11:22:08 PM
Yes he did train on Friday same as the other 2 as there were photos of him in that session, so what Moore said makes no sense given they all joined the same day.

The odds are Tosin will be left out or should be given we have more than enough centre half cover.

What Moore says never makes a great deal of sense.

Tosin, much as I am a massive fan of his, should have been left off the bench on Saturday. I’d have started Johansen regardless of how well he knows the players, their wives, parents etc but at the bare minimum he should have been on the bench.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on February 05, 2019, 12:47:02 AM
And do you know why?
On WM afterwards Moore said"new players can't come in to the match day squad straightaway, they have to spend time with the players and staff first and get to know them"
................Johansen......currently shaking hands with each player at the training ground and learning their tastes in music

He really shouldn't bother.

From what I've heard their general taste in music is pretty sh ite to be honest  ;D .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on February 05, 2019, 01:19:46 AM
No, he dumped me  :D ;D :D

B*stard. Well I hope you're keeping the jewellery.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 05, 2019, 06:28:18 AM
B*stard. Well I hope you're keeping the jewellery.
Brilliant
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Raymond John on February 05, 2019, 10:57:47 AM
Appropo Darren's in-game management; apart from Sheffield Wednesday away, has he made game-changing substitutions/formation changes resulting in points being gained which otherwise would have been lost?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 05, 2019, 11:08:35 AM
Appropo Darren's in-game management; apart from Sheffield Wednesday away, has he made game-changing substitutions/formation changes resulting in points being gained which otherwise would have been lost?

The issue with this is that that is the only in-game management performed by Darren that people can attribute to us gaining points, whereas there are so many instances where his in-game management has cost us points.

The Sheffield Wednesday one was bizarre because it resulted in us having about 5 central midfielders (or central midfielders in Darren's eyes) on the park and therefore you saw Brunt end up on the wide right (on a wing, where he should be) due to the imbalance and able to put the ball in for Barnes. The second goal was all Barnes and a piece of utter genius and majesty that can be but admired.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 05, 2019, 11:13:59 AM
B*stard. Well I hope you're keeping the jewellery.

Well, that's the least I deserve considering the hell he put me through  :D ;D :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on February 05, 2019, 11:18:53 AM
Appropo Darren's in-game management; apart from Sheffield Wednesday away, has he made game-changing substitutions/formation changes resulting in points being gained which otherwise would have been lost?
of the top of my head, Norwich away. Hal came on as a sub and got the winning goal. You could argue Bolton away too as Field replaced Brunt and got the winner as well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 05, 2019, 11:27:01 AM
of the top of my head, Norwich away. Hal came on as a sub and got the winning goal. You could argue Bolton away too as Field replaced Brunt and got the winner as well.
Villa at home , Brunt in the middle as sub feeding it out wide right which led to the second goal . Thats my favorite change anyway :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on February 05, 2019, 11:27:51 AM
Impossible to say mate.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on February 05, 2019, 11:28:22 AM
In all fairness there will always be issues with whoever is managing because we all think we could do better and would pick different players etc.
Darren is actually achieving better than I thought and that increases the thoughts that we could and should be in the automatic places. Over a season the league position tells a story about how a team has performed and usually a club's position reflects it's ability.
At times there have been tactical decisions that have been questionable and some starting line-ups are arguable. However we are still in the race and we should enjoy it whilst it lasts. - It could be a lot worse.
I play (or try) golf and it's amazing at how many club members would be the best club steward, green-keeper and secretary (in their opinion).
Let Darren get on with it, there's no way he would lose points on purpose and this is a big learning curve.
There are teams in this league - Stoke, Villa as examples who really thought they would be promoted. Imagine how they feel at present.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on February 05, 2019, 11:47:26 AM
In all fairness there will always be issues with whoever is managing because we all think we could do better and would pick different players etc.
Darren is actually achieving better than I thought and that increases the thoughts that we could and should be in the automatic places. Over a season the league position tells a story about how a team has performed and usually a club's position reflects it's ability.
At times there have been tactical decisions that have been questionable and some starting line-ups are arguable. However we are still in the race and we should enjoy it whilst it lasts. - It could be a lot worse.
I play (or try) golf and it's amazing at how many club members would be the best club steward, green-keeper and secretary (in their opinion).
Let Darren get on with it, there's no way he would lose points on purpose and this is a big learning curve.
There are teams in this league - Stoke, Villa as examples who really thought they would be promoted. Imagine how they feel at present.   


I also play golf, & the difference between a very good club player & a professional is incredible, the difference between an average club player & a professional is insurmountable.

Think it's the same situation in most sports.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on February 05, 2019, 11:54:58 AM
I'm not a huge fan of Darren Moore the manager. However I really do hope to be proven wrong in time. With that said, I don't think he did a lot wrong against Boro and poor individual errors cost us. 

Sadly, when not viewed in isolation I think we a failing to perform this season far to often. Earlier in the season we were clinical in front of goal and it masked those poor performances at times. 

The idea we should be happy because we arent as bad as Stoke or Villa is silly too.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on February 05, 2019, 12:07:26 PM
Appropo Darren's in-game management; apart from Sheffield Wednesday away, has he made game-changing substitutions/formation changes resulting in points being gained which otherwise would have been lost?

You only have to watch games live to see how formations fluctuate from one to the other.

I honestly can't be bothered to check back through team line ups, substitutions and their timings but I know that many of his substitutions have been fairly late on.

The fact that we've gained so many points from losing positions (or had at one point) and scored so many goals late in games suggests to me that yes, he has made changes to affect results in our favour.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 05, 2019, 01:22:31 PM
Well, that's the least I deserve considering the hell he put me through  :D ;D :D

I must be a really nasty and intimidating so and so from behind a keyboard  :D

I would describe hell as what my Grandfather went through in World War II.  Fighting the Japanese in the Burmese jungle (hard to imagine what that was really like).

As agreed, now things are just fine between us.   ;)

It will be interesting to see what transpires (as an onlooker) when your pro-Moore views go up against the anti-Moore views of other posters.......
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 05, 2019, 01:46:20 PM
Why do we have to split in to two groups Pro and anti Moore? Why don't we all get behind him and praise and criticise where neccesary?

There are far too many on this forum who get entrenched into their views they cannot recognise the differing opinion of another. They get that far entrenched that in staunch devotion to their opinion they either over criticise or over praise. This and the Chris Brunt threads being classic examples.

It's boring to be honest.

Lets praise Moore where he has done well (and there is lots) and criticise where he hasn't or can improve further.

Simple as that.

No need for petty groups where both fiercely air their opinions to mug of the opposing side from 5pm onwards every friggin' Saturday.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 05, 2019, 02:47:54 PM
Why do we have to split in to two groups Pro and anti Moore? Why don't we all get behind him and praise and criticise where neccesary?

There are far too many on this forum who get entrenched into their views they cannot recognise the differing opinion of another. They get that far entrenched that in staunch devotion to their opinion they either over criticise or over praise. This and the Chris Brunt threads being classic examples.

It's boring to be honest.

Lets praise Moore where he has done well (and there is lots) and criticise where he hasn't or can improve further.

Simple as that.

No need for petty groups where both fiercely air their opinions to mug of the opposing side from 5pm onwards every friggin' Saturday.

Totally agree, it does seem that any criticism sees you down as Anti Moore and any praise sees you the Moore lover !!

No-one is above criticism and as a new Head Coach he will makes mistakes but its how you learn from them that matters, repeating the same errors over and over leads to deserved criticism and what some fail to acknowledge at times it that criticism is not the same as abuse.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on February 05, 2019, 03:10:25 PM
Why do we have to split in to two groups Pro and anti Moore? Why don't we all get behind him and praise and criticise where neccesary?

There are far too many on this forum who get entrenched into their views they cannot recognise the differing opinion of another. They get that far entrenched that in staunch devotion to their opinion they either over criticise or over praise. This and the Chris Brunt threads being classic examples.

It's boring to be honest.

Lets praise Moore where he has done well (and there is lots) and criticise where he hasn't or can improve further.

Simple as that.

No need for petty groups where both fiercely air their opinions to mug of the opposing side from 5pm onwards every friggin' Saturday.

Well said that man  8) .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tommcneill on February 05, 2019, 04:17:45 PM
Why do we have to split in to two groups Pro and anti Moore? Why don't we all get behind him and praise and criticise where neccesary?

There are far too many on this forum who get entrenched into their views they cannot recognise the differing opinion of another. They get that far entrenched that in staunch devotion to their opinion they either over criticise or over praise. This and the Chris Brunt threads being classic examples.

It's boring to be honest.

Lets praise Moore where he has done well (and there is lots) and criticise where he hasn't or can improve further.

Simple as that.

No need for petty groups where both fiercely air their opinions to mug of the opposing side from 5pm onwards every friggin' Saturday.

Seems to be the way of the world right now....you have to be in one group or another, if you are in one group you have to continue with your view or you are kicked out of said group and into some kind of purgatory

Im very centrist in most things, happy to hear opinions, happy to debate, happy to criticise, happy to heap praise...all where its due
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on February 05, 2019, 04:45:24 PM
Well said that man  8) .

Yowm bloody soft yow am !   ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on February 05, 2019, 04:46:03 PM
Yowm bloody soft yow am !   ;)

Ar, ay it  ;D  ;) .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 05, 2019, 06:42:10 PM
Why do we have to split in to two groups Pro and anti Moore? Why don't we all get behind him and praise and criticise where neccesary?

There are far too many on this forum who get entrenched into their views they cannot recognise the differing opinion of another. They get that far entrenched that in staunch devotion to their opinion they either over criticise or over praise. This and the Chris Brunt threads being classic examples.

It's boring to be honest.

Lets praise Moore where he has done well (and there is lots) and criticise where he hasn't or can improve further.

Simple as that.

No need for petty groups where both fiercely air their opinions to mug of the opposing side from 5pm onwards every friggin' Saturday.


Totally agree, some of the nonsense on both threads beggars belief.


Get behind all the lads, if you perceive constructive critiscism then post it, preferably in a respectful manner to both the Albion man and fellow posters.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on February 05, 2019, 06:47:19 PM
If mourinho was our manager we would all give him a year for him to bed in etc wouldn't we?
But we've got our own Big Dave who needs the same at least, he's doing well and don't forget he's a coach and he's trying to change the club philosophy ,whatever that means,but he's got my full support.
I look at the number of actual defeats he's had including the six games in charge in the prem,I imagine its pdg.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tex on February 05, 2019, 08:41:15 PM
7 points from 15 so far in 2019.  12 points from 18 in December suggests we miss Barnes but have not adapted to life without him. There will have to be an improvement if we are to get an automatic promotion spot. Pressure is on Moore now to be back at 2 points from every game on average.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 05, 2019, 08:49:16 PM
West Brom's injury, yellow and red card list - absentees and potential return dates

What Darren May have to contend with selecting his strongest team

Source: https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-injuries-suspensions-championship-14254394
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 05, 2019, 08:51:04 PM
7 points from 15 so far in 2019.  12 points from 18 in December suggests we miss Barnes but have not adapted to life without him. There will have to be an improvement if we are to get an automatic promotion spot. Pressure is on Moore now to be back at 2 points from every game on average.


You have to consider the opposition too. Norwich and Boro are much sterner tests than anything in December. Let's get the loanees integrated into the group and push on, Stoke are on their knees under this new head coach, we can start the run there.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on February 05, 2019, 09:10:58 PM
7 points from 15 so far in 2019.  12 points from 18 in December suggests we miss Barnes but have not adapted to life without him. There will have to be an improvement if we are to get an automatic promotion spot. Pressure is on Moore now to be back at 2 points from every game on average.

We have only played 3 league games since Barnes left. Phillips has also missed all of those, and we feel his absence at least as much as Barnes, more so in my view. As already mentioned, two of those three matches were against tougher opposition in Norwich and Middlesbrough and goals haven't really been our issue in those 3 games either.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 05, 2019, 09:15:27 PM
Well, that's the least I deserve considering the hell he put me through  :D ;D :D
if only hell auto-corrected to hole ❤️🏳️‍🌈
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on February 06, 2019, 11:13:59 AM
Seems to be the way of the world right now....you have to be in one group or another, if you are in one group you have to continue with your view or you are kicked out of said group and into some kind of purgatory

Im very centrist in most things, happy to hear opinions, happy to debate, happy to criticise, happy to heap praise...all where its due

Exactly this!   Added to this is the fact that everything has to be right here, right now.   Its why we live in this ridiculous time when the average tenure of a manager in the professional game in England is just 1.23 years - with the Championship the hardest league in which to keep your job.  Don't think its a coincidence that Norwich, Sheff Utd and Bristol City have bucked this trend although.

The simple fact is that DM is an inexperienced Head Coach in his first managerial job and there will be errors repeated whilst he find his way. I have also walked out of the ground disappointed on a number of occasions grumbling; why Brunty in the middle of the park, why Bartley on the left of a three, why the reliance on the flawed genius of HRK, why the late subs when we could see it needed a change, why the disappearance of Edwards after that superb cameo etc

But guess what, I'm still a fan of Darren Moore. The difference from last season is that by Monday i am feeling optimistic again and ready to go.  He has served up some fantastic football at times, and totally changed the playing style from defense first to attack and the club just feels healthier for his presence. 

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on February 06, 2019, 12:44:39 PM
If mourinho was our manager we would all give him a year for him to bed in etc wouldn't we?
But we've got our own Big Dave who needs the same at least, he's doing well and don't forget he's a coach and he's trying to change the club philosophy ,whatever that means,but he's got my full support.
I look at the number of actual defeats he's had including the six games in charge in the prem,I imagine its pdg.

Mourinho wouldn't get a year to bed in because of the demands of the club; demands which Moore is facing. The club needs the financial boost that comes with being in the Premier League, and we need to get back - that demand would be the same no matter who is in charge, or how long they'd been in charge for.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tex on February 06, 2019, 03:09:44 PM
I think it’s the fear that this is our best chance of promotion and we are at the mercy of how fast he can learn, or if he can learn. I like his style of play, it’s good to watch, but ultimately he also needs to adapt to injuries or loosing a player like Barnes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on February 06, 2019, 04:00:30 PM
Mourinho wouldn't get a year to bed in because of the demands of the club; demands which Moore is facing. The club needs the financial boost that comes with being in the Premier League, and we need to get back - that demand would be the same no matter who is in charge, or how long they'd been in charge for.

I think it's the demand of some fans who clearly don't want him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on February 06, 2019, 04:32:43 PM
In the circumstances following Pulis Pardew,who do people on here who didn't want Dave ,think who could do better than he has,keeping the majority of the squad,4 the in league possible 5th round of cup.
Who I ask the complainers of Dave do or did they suggest?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 06, 2019, 06:21:54 PM
Matt Wilson Twitter Account

In his @WBAFCProgramme notes, Moore says #wba are "implementing a new DNA and cannot have our heads turned" by set-backs like Saturday. "If performance levels continue to be high, then the results will come too... The important thing is to keeping believing."

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on February 06, 2019, 10:32:30 PM
unless Dawson was injured tonight,using 4 subs with 30 mins to go cost us,together with Bartley being selected to play at all
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 06, 2019, 10:34:49 PM
Was Moore just taking the pee tonight with those substitions?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 06, 2019, 10:37:52 PM
I've no real complaints, he didn't want to go through. Job done.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 06, 2019, 10:38:33 PM
I think it's the demand of some fans who clearly don't want him.
Is that because they notice the problem s he seems ignorant towards?
I genuinely don't think there are many at all thatdont want him to succeed, in fact I'd say he would probably be the most popular manager of modern times....if the obvious was addressed
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: east-stand-nick on February 06, 2019, 10:38:52 PM
I've no real complaints, he didn't want to go through. Job done.

Didn't want to go through so took it to a replay and extra time. Genius.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on February 06, 2019, 11:12:42 PM
I'm proud of our team tonight,hrk the kids and sub's,hard luck but tried hard looking good for our future.
Good on you too Dave for trying it out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on February 06, 2019, 11:19:30 PM
I've no real complaints, he didn't want to go through. Job done.

I don't think this is true for a second, but any pro who doesn't want to win shouldn't be in employment.

I think DM wanted to give the kids a run out, but he shouldn't have had so much inexperience on the field at the same time. We were pretty much left with age and youth, with very little solid players to keep it steady.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 06, 2019, 11:22:32 PM
I don't think this is true for a second, but any pro who doesn't want to win shouldn't be in employment.

I think DM wanted to give the kids a run out, but he shouldn't have had so much inexperience on the field at the same time. We were pretty much left with age and youth, with very little solid players to keep it steady.


As I said in a post that seems to have been deleted he wouldn't have minded winning, but he clearly didn't set out to win the game. His substitutions make this obvious surely? 210 minutes of Gayle on the bench 7 subs used, he's not one of them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 06, 2019, 11:27:04 PM
Really mad that mistakes and a blatant red card have cost us a decent chance of getting to Wembley for a semi final. The prat in the black should have sent of their player in first half, central defenders particularly Bartley cost us with mistakes and not great play from them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 06, 2019, 11:41:41 PM

As I said in a post that seems to have been deleted he wouldn't have minded winning, but he clearly didn't set out to win the game. His substitutions make this obvious surely? 210 minutes of Gayle on the bench 7 subs used, he's not one of them.

I think it’s clear to all that he had no desire to win the tie. He could have easily brought Gayle on, or generally picked a stronger side, in the original tie as we had a whole week before the Boro game yet he opted not to. If we lose to Stoke following it having lost to Boro then even his staunchest of fans must surely be asking questions.

I like to think I am relatively young still (30’s) but I am still a fan of the FA Cup, so to see us treat the competition with such little respect was disappointing for me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 06, 2019, 11:43:12 PM
No need to involve Dawson tonight. Thought he looked as though he picked up an injury on Saturday, and I was staggered to see him warming up tonight.
Now in danger of missing Saturday.

.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 06, 2019, 11:48:24 PM
Some positives from tonight.
The excellent Rekeem Harper. Not to be left out Mr Moore
Sam Field growing in stature.
Promising performance from Rayhaan Tulloch.
We get to play Villa before Grealish is fit.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: webral on February 07, 2019, 12:33:36 AM
Bottom line is he got it wrong tonight again. Can't help thinking that with better tactics and a few extra minutes for a couple of first teamers, we could have gone through. Back 3 again 2nd half with Bartley, Mears at RWB, Hoolahan up front, subs used too early and Jones appearing to be calling the shots at the end. Unlucky in a sense that their guy didn't get sent off 1st half but who would have guessed, mistakes at the back again. Great to see so many young players on the field but can't get past the fact that they'd get more benefit by still being in the competition and playing again. Playing 3 at the back and sharing the time between Dawson/Hegazi left us short on subs which ended up costing us when HRK got injured.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 07, 2019, 05:37:52 AM
The scheduled substitutions of Dawson and JRod we’re wrong in my view. I don’t think you should treat a game like that. He got it wrong in my view. Good news is no one is injured.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on February 07, 2019, 05:59:58 AM
Moore deserves praise for the chance he is giving the kids a chance in the cup competitions but his subs were poor today. The Dawson for Rodriguez sub was pants and then hooking him for Hegazi. Waste of 2 subs one of which should have seen us get Gayle on.

If we win Saturday at stoke then all will be forgotten overall I think he's working miracles with his hands tied behind his back
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on February 07, 2019, 07:25:48 AM
Overall last night was nothing more than a glorified training exercise for both teams with little intensity and substitutions planned in advance . As a couple of people have stated I felt there was little desire from us to progress .

If changing the DNA of the club is passing the ball from the goalkeeper around central areas at the back inviting trouble best of luck Darren.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AidantheBaggies on February 07, 2019, 08:02:47 AM
Big Dave will always be an Albion legend in my eyes, you could not wish to meet a more genuine and sincere person. However i am not convinced he is a head coach (I never have been), i do honestly believe that if we had a more experienced manager we would be comfortably in the top 2 now. Big Dave's subs and game management is absolutely abysmal and has cost us points this season which could well be the difference between finishing 3rd and 2nd.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: jharman292 on February 07, 2019, 09:46:46 AM
Moore deserves praise for the chance he is giving the kids a chance in the cup competitions but his subs were poor today. The Dawson for Rodriguez sub was pants and then hooking him for Hegazi. Waste of 2 subs one of which should have seen us get Gayle on.

If we win Saturday at stoke then all will be forgotten overall I think he's working miracles with his hands tied behind his back

Really? I think every manager in the league would swap squads with his. One thing he can not point to is the lack of quality at his disposal. He has the players now capable of finishing in the top 2, its down to him to utilise them correctly.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wbatillidie on February 07, 2019, 10:18:37 AM
Unfortunately it’s another example of Darren’s awful in game management. Too many times has he got it wrong this season, those subs last night were a joke and unfair on the likes of Field/Harper who could barely walk at the end.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on February 07, 2019, 10:52:23 AM
The bit that confuses me with some fans, is one minute Graham Jones is the one running the show, then the next minute DM doesn't have a clue what he's doing with subs etc etc.

Surely if the fans that believe Jones is the 'main man' then isn't it his fault with the subs etc?

For what its worth, I still think DM is doing a good job, he was 5 minutes from going through to the next round last night by playing a very youthful team, albeit for a Bartley/Dawson error, we would still be in the cup.

Say what you want about tactics/subs etc but if Bartley clears that ball instead of trying to control/pass it, then we see the game out.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on February 07, 2019, 12:50:17 PM
I am staggered by his poor game / squad management last night. If you don't want your first team out there, don't pick them. It's that simple. And then to press on with his pre-planned subs when Rodriguez was the most dangerous player was ridiculous, but bringing Dawson on and changing to a back three killed us - none of those centre halves can play in a three, with the possible exception of Adarabiyio.

And then to use the 4th sub right at the beginning of extra time, before losing Robson-Kanu? He says he couldn't have foreseen that, but the very reason we're given an extra sub in extra time is to prevent that very scenario.

What is really galling me is that he constantly fails to learn from his mistakes. I've mentioned 3 at the back above, but every goal kick going short? It's negligence. Fair enough if the majority go short, but you need some variation in them. As it is teams know they're going short, know our defenders aren't very good ball-to-feet, and so we're under pressure straight away. It's rudimentary, and he's not learning.

I felt he was the wrong man in the summer, but ultimately wanted him to succeed because he was a hero of mine as a player, and it would be what's best for the club. But he has now put an incredible amount of pressure on himself to get a result at Stoke (of all places), and if we drop points against them and Forest it could be curtains for the automatics.

When we got promotion under Megson in 2002, when we won the league under Mowbray in 2008, we went on runs to the quarters and semis respectively. It generated momentum and positivity at a point when the games were coming thick and fast and players were tiring after 30-40 games. Apart from the kids performances, we have very little to show from last night - he's created a rod for his own back.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: staticboy on February 07, 2019, 01:00:25 PM
I feel that if we lose this next game he has has to go, he just does not seem to know what to do.  And you don't get anywhere in life by just being nice, sorry Darren it's nearly time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on February 07, 2019, 01:02:46 PM
I've asked the question in another thread but was there some other motive in bringing Rogers on ? Does the fact he's now played senior football make it more difficult or expensive for some other club to poach him ? If so, you could say that it excuses that substitution as keeping him here could be worth a lot to us a year or two down the line, either financially or in having a quality player at our disposal.

Moore did not want extra time last night which influenced the substitutions. We've got 4 league games in 10 days starting Saturday (5 in 2 weeks). He sees Rodriguez, Dawson and Hegazi as key players and made a pre-meditated decision that they would only play 45 mins max. Difficult balancing act.


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 07, 2019, 01:03:40 PM
I feel that if we lose this next game he has has to go, he just does not seem to know what to do.  And you don't get anywhere in life by just being nice, sorry Darren it's nearly time.


Incredible. We would be the laughing stock of all football if we sack Moore after what he has achieved.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on February 07, 2019, 01:06:38 PM

Incredible. We would be the laughing stock of all football if we sack Moore after what he has achieved.


Wow! We actually 100% agree.

Well done Jacko you are right at last.  ;D ;)

In all seriousness, staticboy you are incredible, there is no way at this stage that Darren Moore is anywhere near the sack
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: richjonawba on February 07, 2019, 01:32:53 PM
I found it interesting last night that in the BBC coverage at the end of the ninety minutes, all the players huddled around Moore and Jones and it looked to me like Jones was delivering tactical instructions to the players while Moore stood and listened not saying a single word throughout. I do wonder how much tactical input Moore actually has, it does seem like Jones runs the show.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BRIAN on February 07, 2019, 01:43:15 PM
Maybe Darren is polite so he did not interfere when the players were getting instructions.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on February 07, 2019, 01:51:12 PM
Maybe Darren is polite so he did not interfere when the players were getting instructions.


????

Wtf?

He is the head coach. Doesn't want to interfere out of politeness? He is the main man
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 07, 2019, 02:01:59 PM
I found it interesting last night that in the BBC coverage at the end of the ninety minutes, all the players huddled around Moore and Jones and it looked to me like Jones was delivering tactical instructions to the players while Moore stood and listened not saying a single word throughout. I do wonder how much tactical input Moore actually has, it does seem like Jones runs the show.


Assistants often run through tactics, watch when a sub comes on.


That said I feel the back 3 is very much Jones led, and as the game (down to the subs) was pre-planned like a friendly it didn't need much input from Darren.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on February 07, 2019, 02:22:14 PM
I feel that if we lose this next game he has has to go, he just does not seem to know what to do.  And you don't get anywhere in life by just being nice, sorry Darren it's nearly time.

Absolutely no chance.

I would bet my house on DM not losing his job before the end of the season.

The only way he loses his job in the summer would be if we exploded now and didn't even make the playoffs, even though I would probably hazard a guess at him still remaining in a job.

DM has dealt with a lot in his time in his first job, steadying a sinking ship that couldn't buy a win in the premier league, dealing with all the chaos in the summer, no club structure, dealing with all the ins and outs, being given a very limited budget to try and mount a promotion challenge, changed the style of play, brought the club together, changed the perception of the club to others, bring back a little bit of pride to be a baggie, has us sitting just off the top 2, 2nd highest scorers in the country, introduced several youth team players into the first team squad.

All that plus more in his first managerial job is incredible. You only have to look at Villa, Stoke, Swansea to see how hard it is to fall on your feet in this league and be challenging straight away.

Give the bloke a bloody break, hes done a great job, he is going to get things wrong of course he is, its his first job, he's learning as he goes. Quite frankly some of the fans who want him sacked, would be better off toddling down the M6 and going to support the Vile.

Anyone would think we are sitting 16th in the club and not having a clue what to do each game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: sammyg on February 07, 2019, 02:28:00 PM
Great post Mister AT , I agree completely!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tgd26 on February 07, 2019, 02:33:32 PM
Great post Mister AT , I agree completely!

Same here - some people need to get a grip
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 07, 2019, 02:43:30 PM
Why bother sacking him if Jones is running the show anyway.  ::)

Seriously though, anyone who thinks he is anywhere near the sack need to give their head a wobble! We are stable top 6 with every chance of making top 2 so, for a bloke with a remit of attaining automatic promotion, he is on target.

Moyes and Allardyce are still available though, as is Pardew ffs.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: staticboy on February 07, 2019, 04:04:44 PM
Ha ha I'm so glad I contributed now.
I have just wobbled my head I feel much better now.

I think I'm just frustrated in how we are not spending money on players, have weird substitutions and we cannot play football like fifa on easy level.

Thank you Jacko and Atomic, I am incredible :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wodenson46 on February 07, 2019, 04:40:06 PM
Darren Moore makes decisions some of us on here find baffling. Sometimes those decisions do not have the desired effect of improving the situaton the team is in at any given time. In our wisdom everyone has an opinion on the decisions he makes and then according to their own preconceptions some pass on to others their opinions regarding Darren’s ability to do his job. These brilliant tacticians who always get things right in their own minute little worlds have like myself, no idea of all of the factors influencing DM’s choices. These people are obviously entitled to their opinions, but to immediately and consistently call for the sacking of any Head Coach who has in a short time lifted the club as a whole, including a great deal of its traditional support, changed the playing style, improved the performance of the team and put them in a position to challenge for promotion, is in my opinion childishly reactive and more in line with the attitudes displayed by dogyeds and seals than West Bromwich Albion supporters. If anyone has the time to check back through the posts I would love to know if those who are constantly calling for Moore to be sacked are the same ones over time, who also have often taken against certain players who have served this great club.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on February 07, 2019, 04:53:26 PM
Absolutely no chance.

I would bet my house on DM not losing his job before the end of the season.

The only way he loses his job in the summer would be if we exploded now and didn't even make the playoffs, even though I would probably hazard a guess at him still remaining in a job.

DM has dealt with a lot in his time in his first job, steadying a sinking ship that couldn't buy a win in the premier league, dealing with all the chaos in the summer, no club structure, dealing with all the ins and outs, being given a very limited budget to try and mount a promotion challenge, changed the style of play, brought the club together, changed the perception of the club to others, bring back a little bit of pride to be a baggie, has us sitting just off the top 2, 2nd highest scorers in the country, introduced several youth team players into the first team squad.

All that plus more in his first managerial job is incredible. You only have to look at Villa, Stoke, Swansea to see how hard it is to fall on your feet in this league and be challenging straight away.

Give the bloke a bloody break, hes done a great job, he is going to get things wrong of course he is, its his first job, he's learning as he goes. Quite frankly some of the fans who want him sacked, would be better off toddling down the M6 and going to support the Vile.

Anyone would think we are sitting 16th in the club and not having a clue what to do each game.

Great post!.Why some people on here think we have the divine right to win the Championship is beyond me. Give him the season to show what he can do.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: smethwick2 on February 07, 2019, 05:51:01 PM
Absolutely no chance.

I would bet my house on DM not losing his job before the end of the season.

The only way he loses his job in the summer would be if we exploded now and didn't even make the playoffs, even though I would probably hazard a guess at him still remaining in a job.

DM has dealt with a lot in his time in his first job, steadying a sinking ship that couldn't buy a win in the premier league, dealing with all the chaos in the summer, no club structure, dealing with all the ins and outs, being given a very limited budget to try and mount a promotion challenge, changed the style of play, brought the club together, changed the perception of the club to others, bring back a little bit of pride to be a baggie, has us sitting just off the top 2, 2nd highest scorers in the country, introduced several youth team players into the first team squad.

All that plus more in his first managerial job is incredible. You only have to look at Villa, Stoke, Swansea to see how hard it is to fall on your feet in this league and be challenging straight away.

Give the bloke a bloody break, hes done a great job, he is going to get things wrong of course he is, its his first job, he's learning as he goes. Quite frankly some of the fans who want him sacked, would be better off toddling down the M6 and going to support the Vile.

Anyone would think we are sitting 16th in the club and not having a clue what to do each game.
Can't agree more with this. Yes I think there are some decisions of Moore's that I disagree with but overall he is doing a stand up job. This time last year we were bottom of the premier league with something like 3/4 wins in around 40 games (This hardly improved until DM). Since he took over he gained some dignity back with the final few results in the PL and then mounted a strong promotion push in arguably the most competitive league going. Yes we have a lot of 'premier league stars', as a lot of opposition clubs have said but we all know how little that can really mean. Stoke had a lot of 'premier league' players as have a number of teams over the years but not many are able to bounce straight back up

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 07, 2019, 06:21:03 PM
Absolutely no chance.

I would bet my house on DM not losing his job before the end of the season.

The only way he loses his job in the summer would be if we exploded now and didn't even make the playoffs, even though I would probably hazard a guess at him still remaining in a job.

DM has dealt with a lot in his time in his first job, steadying a sinking ship that couldn't buy a win in the premier league, dealing with all the chaos in the summer, no club structure, dealing with all the ins and outs, being given a very limited budget to try and mount a promotion challenge, changed the style of play, brought the club together, changed the perception of the club to others, bring back a little bit of pride to be a baggie, has us sitting just off the top 2, 2nd highest scorers in the country, introduced several youth team players into the first team squad.

All that plus more in his first managerial job is incredible. You only have to look at Villa, Stoke, Swansea to see how hard it is to fall on your feet in this league and be challenging straight away.

Give the bloke a bloody break, hes done a great job, he is going to get things wrong of course he is, its his first job, he's learning as he goes. Quite frankly some of the fans who want him sacked, would be better off toddling down the M6 and going to support the Vile.

Anyone would think we are sitting 16th in the club and not having a clue what to do each game.

Excellent post but can we leave the stuff about people going down the road to the villa (or Wolves) out of posts please.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: colinmax on February 08, 2019, 09:18:45 AM
I can see both sides of the argument as regards playing our strongest team or our youngsters although making Gayle get changed and sit on the bench with no intention of playing him seems unfair on the player.
My main concern is DM's use of substitutes.
Last week he was extolling the virtues of Montero saying how dynamic he is and how difficult he is to mark in fact he is a game changer.
Good teams usually win their home games or at least  try their hardest to do so.
If that is the case why when we were drawing two all with ten minutes to go against Boro did he put Brunt on and not the potential match winner on the bench?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on February 08, 2019, 09:27:27 AM
I can see both sides of the argument as regards playing our strongest team or our youngsters although making Gayle get changed and sit on the bench with no intention of playing him seems unfair on the player.
My main concern is DM's use of substitutes.
Last week he was extolling the virtues of Montero saying how dynamic he is and how difficult he is to mark in fact he is a game changer.
Good teams usually win their home games or at least  try their hardest to do so.
If that is the case why when we were drawing two all with ten minutes to go against Boro did he put Brunt on and not the potential match winner on the bench?
becuase Montero had only been here a day and is not a central midfielder? I know Brunt isn’t either but he’s trusted there for one reason or another.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on February 08, 2019, 11:01:42 AM
becuase Montero had only been here a day and is not a central midfielder? I know Brunt isn’t either but he’s trusted there for one reason or another.
how long the players been at the club shouldn't matter if he's been named in the squad surely.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on February 08, 2019, 11:51:03 PM
From the Mirror:-

"West Brom ready to hand head coach Darren Moore a new contract"
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/west-brom-ready-hand-head-13973356
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 08, 2019, 11:55:13 PM
From the Mirror:-

"West Brom ready to hand head coach Darren Moore a new contract"
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/west-brom-ready-hand-head-13973356
Why ? What's the rush?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on February 08, 2019, 11:56:52 PM
Why ? What's the rush?
do we actually know the terms of his current contract? might be rolling 1 year so to show faith they'll give him a longer term fixed option for some security.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 09, 2019, 12:07:32 AM
From the Mirror:-

"West Brom ready to hand head coach Darren Moore a new contract"
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/west-brom-ready-hand-head-13973356 (https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/west-brom-ready-hand-head-13973356)


Great news if true. Nice write up too.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 09, 2019, 03:17:36 AM

Great news if true. Nice write up too.

Great write up.

"While the club had resigned themselves to relegation, Moore picked up an impressive 11 points from the final five games.

It was more than his predecessors had managed in the previous 25.

He started last season with no recruitment team, no technical director and Jones arriving two days before the campaign started after his decision to quit the Belgium team."

And people want him sacked ???
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 09, 2019, 08:01:40 AM
Fantastic and a good article
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on February 09, 2019, 08:05:11 AM
We must have a plan for not going up, and Moore taking the young players forward with a few careful signings assuming we lose Rodriguez, Gibbs and Dawson and all the loan players would be my preference.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Brummie Road on February 09, 2019, 10:51:31 AM
Great write up.

"While the club had resigned themselves to relegation, Moore picked up an impressive 11 points from the final five games.

It was more than his predecessors had managed in the previous 25.

He started last season with no recruitment team, no technical director and Jones arriving two days before the campaign started after his decision to quit the Belgium team."

And people want him sacked ???

Totally agree and I'm sure the sensible majority of us (who generally don't have too be online 24/7, attention seeking and having a dig at various club personnel) continue to be bemused at some of the flak Darren Moore's receiving.

Personally I think he's doing a great job and long may it continue.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on February 09, 2019, 11:55:30 AM
I wouldn't give him a new contract until the end of the season. We could be clinging to 6th later today with some tricky fixtures coming up. 

I hope he goes on a roll and earns it, but I don't think he has earned it yet.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BigFrank20 on February 09, 2019, 12:00:37 PM
Totally agree and I'm sure the sensible majority of us (who generally don't have too be online 24/7, attention seeking and having a dig at various club personnel) continue to be bemused at some of the flak Darren Moore's receiving.

Personally I think he's doing a great job and long may it continue.
I must start with offering a 100% agreement with the quoted post above
OK I'm not sure how long the mods will tolerate this post and the replies it may draw but after some of the vitriol flying around, and not necessarily on this board which does tend to self regulate pretty effectively, I feel a need to put out there something that has been bothering me almost since the day Darren's appointment was announced.
I have to wonder how much of the bad mouthing of DM is being driven more by the colour of his skin than his ability as a coach?
It may just be a subconscious or covert thing or perhaps it's more overt?
Because of the very nature of what I am extrapolating here it is something I have been, and still am, reluctant to verbalise openly but this last week has made me think enough is enough especially after the childish attempts by certain parts of the media to racialise the Bong song/chant. We might think we have 'kicked it out' but I have grave doubts if we really have both in football and wider society 
Lets try to keep this sensible guys if you do wish to add your own thoughts to my musings 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 09, 2019, 12:11:57 PM
I must start with offering a 100% agreement with the quoted post above
OK I'm not sure how long the mods will tolerate this post and the replies it may draw but after some of the vitriol flying around, and not necessarily on this board which does tend to self regulate pretty effectively, I feel a need to put out there something that has been bothering me almost since the day Darren's appointment was announced.
I have to wonder how much of the bad mouthing of DM is being driven more by the colour of his skin than his ability as a coach?
It may just be a subconscious or covert thing or perhaps it's more overt?
Because of the very nature of what I am extrapolating here it is something I have been, and still am, reluctant to verbalise openly but this last week has made me think enough is enough especially after the childish attempts by certain parts of the media to racialise the Bong song/chant. We might think we have 'kicked it out' but I have grave doubts if we really have both in football and wider society 
Lets try to keep this sensible guys if you do wish to add your own thoughts to my musings

Not sure why you bring skin colour into it, I will leave it for now personally I find it insulting that just because I have criticised the bloke that someone would suggest it is down to his colour. I couldn't give a stuff about that, I was brought up on the Three Degrees, Regis is my all time hero, my daughters boyfriend is black so colour has nothing to do with it at all.

Moore has made some naive errors and has at times repeated those errors which is why he gets criticised, personally I have doubts about the experience he has around him, i'm not convinced Jones is the right man. To be successful you have to learn from mistakes, time wil ltell whether long term Darren does, its his job on the line.

I hate this modern day thing when people of a different sex, colour or sexual orientation are criticised that some (and no i'm not directing this at you) suggest its for "other" reasons, there will be a minority who find fault because of those reasons but those people will have been doing exactly the same their whole lives.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on February 09, 2019, 12:15:34 PM
I must start with offering a 100% agreement with the quoted post above
OK I'm not sure how long the mods will tolerate this post and the replies it may draw but after some of the vitriol flying around, and not necessarily on this board which does tend to self regulate pretty effectively, I feel a need to put out there something that has been bothering me almost since the day Darren's appointment was announced.
I have to wonder how much of the bad mouthing of DM is being driven more by the colour of his skin than his ability as a coach?
It may just be a subconscious or covert thing or perhaps it's more overt?
Because of the very nature of what I am extrapolating here it is something I have been, and still am, reluctant to verbalise openly but this last week has made me think enough is enough especially after the childish attempts by certain parts of the media to racialise the Bong song/chant. We might think we have 'kicked it out' but I have grave doubts if we really have both in football and wider society 
Lets try to keep this sensible guys if you do wish to add your own thoughts to my musings

I can't speak for everyone but its certainly nothing to do with race for me, and I've seen nothing on this board to suggest its a race issue. So in that respect you are doing what the media tried to do this week.

For the most part, those like myself who have doubts about Darren Moore the manager have those doubts because we think we have the best team in the league and we are not performing as well as we think we should be (in position and in individual games). That doesn't mean we want him sacked either.

Whether you agree with our stance on our squad or our performances or not, the fact that it is our opinion shouldn't be tough to grasp nor are they so outlandish in a subject as polarising as football that it must be down to something else, such as race.


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 09, 2019, 12:32:17 PM
I must start with offering a 100% agreement with the quoted post above
OK I'm not sure how long the mods will tolerate this post and the replies it may draw but after some of the vitriol flying around, and not necessarily on this board which does tend to self regulate pretty effectively, I feel a need to put out there something that has been bothering me almost since the day Darren's appointment was announced.
I have to wonder how much of the bad mouthing of DM is being driven more by the colour of his skin than his ability as a coach?
It may just be a subconscious or covert thing or perhaps it's more overt?
Because of the very nature of what I am extrapolating here it is something I have been, and still am, reluctant to verbalise openly but this last week has made me think enough is enough especially after the childish attempts by certain parts of the media to racialise the Bong song/chant. We might think we have 'kicked it out' but I have grave doubts if we really have both in football and wider society 
Lets try to keep this sensible guys if you do wish to add your own thoughts to my musings

The thought had crossed my mind to, but I believe it's a sign of the times we live in. Opinion across everything has become more polarised and entrenched with very few wanting to see the middle ground.

I guess for some they should ask themselves would they trade our manager and position for that of Dean Smith and the seals down they road, and if they would why? Moore is now proven to be a better manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on February 09, 2019, 12:40:35 PM
The thought had crossed my mind to, but I believe it's a sign of the times we live in. Opinion across everything has become more polarised and entrenched with very few wanting to see the middle ground.

I guess for some they should ask themselves would they trade our manager and position for that of Dean Smith and the seals down they road, and if they would why? Moore is now proven to be a better manager.

It does seem that with every recent manager we have had, including Darren, that a large selection want them out pretty early on. Whether that is accentuated due to Darren's race I don't know.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 09, 2019, 12:43:26 PM
The thought had crossed my mind to, but I believe it's a sign of the times we live in. Opinion across everything has become more polarised and entrenched with very few wanting to see the middle ground.

I guess for some they should ask themselves would they trade our manager and position for that of Dean Smith and the seals down they road, and if they would why? Moore is now proven to be a better manager.

I’m a big supporter of Moore but it’s too early to say that he’s proven to be a better manager. That’s why I get so frustrated on this forum - people are too quick to reach a conclusion. Dean Smith is only a few matches in, by this time next season we may have a completely different view. Same for Moore. For my money Moore has done a great job so far, but I didn’t like the way he treated the cup game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 09, 2019, 01:27:50 PM
From the Mirror:-

"West Brom ready to hand head coach Darren Moore a new contract"
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/west-brom-ready-hand-head-13973356

I'm genuinely pleased with this, it demonstrates confidence in Darren by the owner and Board and provides stability within the club. I hope he continues to develop as a Head Coach and that, as a result, heis offered many more contracts.

But at the end of the day, it's a football contract and we all know what that means.

Rearrange the following into a well known phrase or saying.
"The" "Worth" "On" "Written" "It's" "Paper" "Not"

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 09, 2019, 01:29:16 PM
New contract before seeing whether he has succeeded or failed miserably  :-X standard Albion decision making right there.

We finish outside the top six we this squad. Will people really think he’s done a good job? Seriously?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 09, 2019, 01:34:22 PM
New contract before seeing whether he has succeeded or failed miserably  :-X standard Albion decision making right there.

We finish outside the top six we this squad. Will people really think he’s done a good job? Seriously?

It's what many of us expected considering the mess we were in start of the season. Top 6 beats expectations, promotion would be amazing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on February 09, 2019, 02:08:35 PM
It's what many of us expected considering the mess we were in start of the season. Top 6 beats expectations, promotion would be amazing.
who's expectations? he's certainly had a mess to sort out following relegation but I'd be disappointed if we didn't finish in the top six. automatic promotion would probably exceed what I expected but top six is a minimum for me.
just my thoughts.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 09, 2019, 02:15:39 PM
Don't get me wrong, I would be disappointed if we don't get top 6 and I'm sure Moore would be too.

But judge him ovver the whole season, when he took over from Pardrew. For me he has achieved more than Dean Smith.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 09, 2019, 02:19:55 PM
I must start with offering a 100% agreement with the quoted post above
OK I'm not sure how long the mods will tolerate this post and the replies it may draw but after some of the vitriol flying around, and not necessarily on this board which does tend to self regulate pretty effectively, I feel a need to put out there something that has been bothering me almost since the day Darren's appointment was announced.
I have to wonder how much of the bad mouthing of DM is being driven more by the colour of his skin than his ability as a coach?
It may just be a subconscious or covert thing or perhaps it's more overt?
Because of the very nature of what I am extrapolating here it is something I have been, and still am, reluctant to verbalise openly but this last week has made me think enough is enough especially after the childish attempts by certain parts of the media to racialise the Bong song/chant. We might think we have 'kicked it out' but I have grave doubts if we really have both in football and wider society 
Lets try to keep this sensible guys if you do wish to add your own thoughts to my musings
Yes that must be the same reason that Brunt, Johnstone, Morrison, Barry , Field,  Hoolahan, and Burke get criticized too.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on February 09, 2019, 02:21:57 PM
From day one in the summer I felt that top 6 would be an achievement and still feel the same way now. We are not there yet so I agree that there is no rush to be handing out new contracts. For me he is doing a very good job nonetheless.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 09, 2019, 02:30:14 PM
It's what many of us expected considering the mess we were in start of the season. Top 6 beats expectations, promotion would be amazing.

Top 6 beats expectations with our squad? Come off it!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on February 09, 2019, 02:34:29 PM
Genuinely amazes me that some expectations are still so low. I can sort of understand why they may have been at the start of the season, but having shown we can take Leeds apart, dominate Sheffield United and get 4 points from Norwich, shouldn’t expectations change?

Who should be finishing above us exactly and why, let alone 5 teams? It’s certainly not because they have better players, so are there 5 better managers?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 09, 2019, 02:34:35 PM
Top 6 beats expectations with our squad? Come off it!

A squad of players assembled by a manager you want shot of? ???
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 09, 2019, 02:36:42 PM
A squad of players assembled by a manager you want shot of? ???

Blimey...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 09, 2019, 02:37:33 PM
Genuinely amazes me that some expectations are still so low. I can sort of understand why they may have been at the start of the season, but having shown we can take Leeds apart, dominate Sheffield United and get 4 points from Norwich, shouldn’t expectations change?

Who should be finishing above us exactly and why, let alone 5 teams? It’s certainly not because they have better players, so are there 5 better managers?

Injurys and suspension into the run up for one. Take the best 3 players out of any top 6 team and they would struggle, as we have. I'm glad Moore has strengthen in the right areas as losing Barnes, Gayle and Phillips in the run up without the new signings would put us outside top 6.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 09, 2019, 02:42:16 PM
I must start with offering a 100% agreement with the quoted post above
OK I'm not sure how long the mods will tolerate this post and the replies it may draw but after some of the vitriol flying around, and not necessarily on this board which does tend to self regulate pretty effectively, I feel a need to put out there something that has been bothering me almost since the day Darren's appointment was announced.
I have to wonder how much of the bad mouthing of DM is being driven more by the colour of his skin than his ability as a coach?
It may just be a subconscious or covert thing or perhaps it's more overt?
Because of the very nature of what I am extrapolating here it is something I have been, and still am, reluctant to verbalise openly but this last week has made me think enough is enough especially after the childish attempts by certain parts of the media to racialise the Bong song/chant. We might think we have 'kicked it out' but I have grave doubts if we really have both in football and wider society 
Lets try to keep this sensible guys if you do wish to add your own thoughts to my musings


Tactically (the back 3) at times the criticism has been valid (if wildly over the top) but I'm sorry stuff like he's thick, sounds thick in interviews, etc I believe that feeds far more into your theory and have have done for most of his tenure.


Regards success, he's done enough to earn a new deal (he was the cheap option remember  ;)  so a pay bump is more than fair at this stage) though I think expectation should remain top 2 after the backing in the winter transfer window and the form of the other teams above us. Finishing 7th or below would be a bad season from this position but it's not going to happen so no need to worry!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on February 09, 2019, 03:02:22 PM
Not sure on why the rush to do this, for me he has slightly underperformed. We should be in the top 2 with the players at our disposal. After what he did at the end of last season i firmly believed he deserved his chance to steer the ship this year but i'm not convinced by him. Would prefer us to get to end of season and go from there.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 09, 2019, 03:21:27 PM
Under performing views, over performing views, I suspect the reality of Darren's performance is somewhere in the middle of that particular continuum and, I get the impression from this thread, that is where the majority of our fans views are held.

Although, views on his performance, at the opposing ends of the continuum, are like a swingometer and will fluctuate from game to game. In my humble opinion, he earned his chance and deserves a fair crack at it, those who suggest he should leave aren't really giving him a fair crack at the chance he earned. My opinion!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on February 09, 2019, 04:10:02 PM
On paper we probably do have the best squad in the league, however on paper our squad wouldnt of finished 20th last season in the premier league yet they did, so on paper and reputations mean nothing.

To give an example, the media reguarly say Livermore, Gibbs and Jrod are England internationals, technically they are, but i couldnt tell you the last time Gibbs and JRod were even in a squad and i would be surprised if Livermore gets close anytime soon, but by saying 'England international' makes them  and their reputation sound better than they are.

If the championship was that easy, the 3 relegated clubs from the premier league would just be promoted straight back up again, now and again 1 or 2 do it but most dont, ask Stoke, newly promoted club, with all the extra money they have spent this season, why they arent 10 points clear at the top, football just doesnt work like that.

The mentality at the Albion is different this season for the first time in 8 years, the pressure and mentality in the premier league was not to lose, nowadays the pressure is on us to win. Ask most professional sports people and they will tell you mentality at that level is probably the most important thing, they are all talented and have ability to get to where they are (some players make you doubt that!) but they are top sports people and the mental side is huge.

Darren Moore has had to reverse the mentality at the club, whilst also trying to reverse a playing style to entertaining, whilst also trying to be successful, all this inherited from the exact opposite to what he is now trying to do - Pulis.

(This isnt a Pulis bashing, you employ him you know what your getting) but Pulis probably uses the most  extreme negative and underhand styles in professional football in this country to get results. Ask any player who has / is coached by Pulis and they will tell you, every session its just drill routines so you dont forget, i dont hate Pulis, i think he seems a bloke you would have a beer with (yes he has made mistakes) but last saturday, watching Middlesbroughs boring but effective tactics, i thought i am so glad i dont have to watch that every week, Albion players would of had those tactics drilled into them nearly three years, it does damage.

When a new manager wants you to try a different way of course you would be pleased and try to adapt but those endless sessions, days and days of something being implanted in your brain isnt easy to forget, i still think its noticeable with Sam Field as an example, his first couple of years experience of senior football was under Pulis, Field is a talented footballer but most times he gets the ball now he just wants to play a cautious no risk safe pass, yet i think he can do so much more, gradually Darren Moore will try and change Fields mentality, the way to do that is keep playing games, i am not sure he will actually get that at the Albion, especially if we go up but i think the mentality drilled into Field has affected his career, thats what Darren Moore is up against, however he must think he can change the way a lot of the squad play as he chose to keep them, but he does need time.

I dont think Mooro is perfect and i also dont think he is doing a great job but i do think he is doing a good job and i would say we are about where i expected us to be, its only middle of February, i dont think its fair to say he isnt the right man or he is clueless because we arent top at the moment, same as i dont think you would hand him a  new five year contract because we went top back in October.

The good points are we are trying to play football, we score plenty of goals, their seems to be a good spirit in the squad, the fans are interested again (we are selling out games home and away, though away wise i appreciate that may also be due to it being new grounds) we are creating an identity as a good attacking side, fans and media are changing their opinion of us after the Pulis years and we have also started to see some academy players stepping up (though we wont probably wont know the real success of those for a season or twos time when we see who become regulars)

I think the mistakes he has made are signing Johnstone, who although not a bad keeper, i dont think he was the right choice for the style we are looking to play, Johnstone has played over 150 senior games and admitted earlier this season he hasnt played this way before, i think it shows because he is nervous (playing behind our 3 at the back earlier of the season wouldnt of helped either, the defence and him made each other nervous) However I think we should of got a keeper who was confident and experienced in playing the way Moore and Jones wanted us too.

I also think they tried to rush the 3-5-2 in, in hindsight they should of seen we didnt have the players for it, however you learn from your mistakes and they did change formation (though i expect we will see more of the 3-5-2 between now and the end of the season as we have better options though i am not convinced our centre halves are right for it)

The Brunt in midfield is bizarre too, it clearly doesnt work and hopefully now we have Harper coming in and signing Johansen, Brunt can go back to competing on the left (i think have him on the bench because certain games he will still be very useful) i would hope the new competition in midfield, Brunt never sees centre midfield again, if thats the case you can say Moore has learnt from his mistake, however if Brunt appears there again it will be a concern.

The other one and it probably sounds petty, i am not sure why we need Morrison and Hoolahan, they are similar (ish) types of players and if they were playing reguarly or swapped roles alternately then fair enough, but as we very rarely use either of them, as they are both likely to be on very good wages for this level, i just think it was a waste of money having both, have one or the other.

Those are the mistakes i think he has made but everybody makes them, especially when you are new to something, but he has shown in some cases, he has given something a fair chance then rectified it when it doesnt work, l like that.

As a fan i am enjoying going the Albion again and although not perfect (but who is) i credit the good job Mooro is doing for making it enjoyable again.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 09, 2019, 04:20:38 PM
On paper we probably do have the best squad in the league, however on paper our squad wouldnt of finished 20th last season in the premier league yet they did, so on paper and reputations mean nothing.

To give an example, the media reguarly say Livermore, Gibbs and Jrod are England internationals, technically they are, but i couldnt tell you the last time Gibbs and JRod were even in a squad and i would be surprised if Livermore gets close anytime soon, but by saying 'England international' makes them  and their reputation sound better than they are.

If the championship was that easy, the 3 relegated clubs from the premier league would just be promoted straight back up again, now and again 1 or 2 do it but most dont, ask Stoke, newly promoted club, with all the extra money they have spent this season, why they arent 10 points clear at the top, football just doesnt work like that.

The mentality at the Albion is different this season for the first time in 8 years, the pressure and mentality in the premier league was not to lose, nowadays the pressure is on us to win. Ask most professional sports people and they will tell you mentality at that level is probably the most important thing, they are all talented and have ability to get to where they are (some players make you doubt that!) but they are top sports people and the mental side is huge.

Darren Moore has had to reverse the mentality at the club, whilst also trying to reverse a playing style to entertaining, whilst also trying to be successful, all this inherited from the exact opposite to what he is now trying to do - Pulis.

(This isnt a Pulis bashing, you employ him you know what your getting) but Pulis probably uses the most  extreme negative and underhand styles in professional football in this country to get results. Ask any player who has / is coached by Pulis and they will tell you, every session its just drill routines so you dont forget, i dont hate Pulis, i think he seems a bloke you would have a beer with (yes he has made mistakes) but last saturday, watching Middlesbroughs boring but effective tactics, i thought i am so glad i dont have to watch that every week, Albion players would of had those tactics drilled into them nearly three years, it does damage.

When a new manager wants you to try a different way of course you would be pleased and try to adapt but those endless sessions, days and days of something being implanted in your brain isnt easy to forget, i still think its noticeable with Sam Field as an example, his first couple of years experience of senior football was under Pulis, Field is a talented footballer but most times he gets the ball now he just wants to play a cautious no risk safe pass, yet i think he can do so much more, gradually Darren Moore will try and change Fields mentality, the way to do that is keep playing games, i am not sure he will actually get that at the Albion, especially if we go up but i think the mentality drilled into Field has affected his career, thats what Darren Moore is up against, however he must think he can change the way a lot of the squad play as he chose to keep them, but he does need time.

I dont think Mooro is perfect and i also dont think he is doing a great job but i do think he is doing a good job and i would say we are about where i expected us to be, its only middle of February, i dont think its fair to say he isnt the right man or he is clueless because we arent top at the moment, same as i dont think you would hand him a  new five year contract because we went top back in October.

The good points are we are trying to play football, we score plenty of goals, their seems to be a good spirit in the squad, the fans are interested again (we are selling out games home and away, though away wise i appreciate that may also be due to it being new grounds) we are creating an identity as a good attacking side, fans and media are changing their opinion of us after the Pulis years and we have also started to see some academy players stepping up (though we wont probably wont know the real success of those for a season or twos time when we see who become regulars)

I think the mistakes he has made are signing Johnstone, who although not a bad keeper, i dont think he was the right choice for the style we are looking to play, Johnstone has played over 150 senior games and admitted earlier this season he hasnt played this way before, i think it shows because he is nervous (playing behind our 3 at the back earlier of the season wouldnt of helped either, the defence and him made each other nervous) However I think we should of got a keeper who was confident and experienced in playing the way Moore and Jones wanted us too.

I also think they tried to rush the 3-5-2 in, in hindsight they should of seen we didnt have the players for it, however you learn from your mistakes and they did change formation (though i expect we will see more of the 3-5-2 between now and the end of the season as we have better options though i am not convinced our centre halves are right for it)

The Brunt in midfield is bizarre too, it clearly doesnt work and hopefully now we have Harper coming in and signing Johansen, Brunt can go back to competing on the left (i think have him on the bench because certain games he will still be very useful) i would hope the new competition in midfield, Brunt never sees centre midfield again, if thats the case you can say Moore has learnt from his mistake, however if Brunt appears there again it will be a concern.

The other one and it probably sounds petty, i am not sure why we need Morrison and Hoolahan, they are similar (ish) types of players and if they were playing reguarly or swapped roles alternately then fair enough, but as we very rarely use either of them, as they are both likely to be on very good wages for this level, i just think it was a waste of money having both, have one or the other.

Those are the mistakes i think he has made but everybody makes them, especially when you are new to something, but he has shown in some cases, he has given something a fair chance then rectified it when it doesnt work, l like that.

As a fan i am enjoying going the Albion again and although not perfect (but who is) i credit the good job Mooro is doing for making it enjoyable again.

A good post and balanced view
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 09, 2019, 05:08:46 PM
Fair play Darren you have dropped Brunt from the whole squad.  Credit where it is due.  Maybe a realisation that Brunt is at the end of the road at WBA? 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 09, 2019, 05:13:19 PM
Fair play Darren you have dropped Brunt from the whole squad.  Credit where it is due.  Maybe a realisation that Brunt is at the end of the road at WBA?

It's being reported Brunt is injured.

I don't necessarily disagree with you about Brunt medium to long term future with us, but it would be interesting to see him playing in his natural position.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 09, 2019, 05:18:26 PM
It's being reported Brunt is injured.

I don't necessarily disagree with you about Brunt medium to long term future with us, but it would be interesting to see him playing in his natural position.


Definitely injured as I said when I posted the team news.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 09, 2019, 05:19:09 PM
It's being reported Brunt is injured.

I don't necessarily disagree with you about Brunt medium to long term future with us, but it would be interesting to see him playing in his natural position.

OK I didn't realise this.  You see, I don't understand what his natural position is?  Left wing abilities are hugely affected by a lack of pace and skill to beat a man.  He was Left back till the end of last season.  Now he's shifted back to CM again, which doesn't suit him either.

Let's see how we go today......
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 09, 2019, 05:23:55 PM
OK I didn't realise this.  You see, I don't understand what his natural position is?  Left wing abilities are hugely affected by a lack of pace and skill to beat a man.  He was Left back till the end of last season.  Now he's shifted back to CM again, which doesn't suit him either.

Let's see how we go today......

With you on that Boing, Boing!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: slate on February 09, 2019, 06:47:39 PM
OK I didn't realise this.  You see, I don't understand what his natural position is?  Left wing abilities are hugely affected by a lack of pace and skill to beat a man.  He was Left back till the end of last season.  Now he's shifted back to CM again, which doesn't suit him either.

Let's see how we go today......

Brunt has been an excellent long term and loyal player to our club and I would like to see some of that loyalty paid back to him rather than several of the "Get rid" posters. Whether that is playing him in his correct position or some kind of training role at the club.

His is rubbish at centre midfield and although his gives his best it is not good enough by far. His best position is left midfield, followed by left back. His crossing and set piece delivery is above anything else in the squad and if we stay in the championship I think that he has another season to offer us.

Moore playing him in the centre is a disservice to him and the team and I wish that he would cut it out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on February 09, 2019, 07:32:02 PM
First 1-0 win of the season & a double over the clay heads

Well done Darren
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 09, 2019, 07:43:58 PM
Well done to Darren Moore a job well done today
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 09, 2019, 07:47:05 PM
Excellent. Good subs and the experience in the team managed the last 15 minutes well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on February 09, 2019, 08:40:21 PM
Big win. Subs were the ones I wanted and we needed and weren't too late.
Deserves praise for put away form which is probably better than our home form over the course of the season
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 09, 2019, 10:01:17 PM
Darren switched Rodriguez and Gayle after about 20 mins. Gayle promptly scores, we line up from the resulting kick off with Gayle back out wide..


Darren's only major mistake this season imo is wasting Dwight Gayle. He'd be close to 30 goals if he'd played regularly through the middle.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 09, 2019, 10:10:02 PM
Nice one Darren, not at our best but didn't need to be to beat this lot, Clay heads pay backs a bitch :-*. Only grip was having Livermore on instead of Harper who's head and shoulders a better player.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 09, 2019, 10:12:48 PM
Darren switched Rodriguez and Gayle after about 20 mins. Gayle promptly scores, we line up from the resulting kick off with Gayle back out wide..


Darren's only major mistake this season imo is wasting Dwight Gayle. He'd be close to 30 goals if he'd played regularly through the middle.

If he played in the middle of the front three then he’d be playing deeper. I take your point but I think it works fine and he’s scored plenty starting out wide.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 09, 2019, 10:19:39 PM
If he played in the middle of the front three then he’d be playing deeper. I take your point but I think it works fine and he’s scored plenty starting out wide.


Doesn't matter, he finds himself deep playing out wide, on numerous occasions today he came looking for the ball on halfway. Meanwhile Rodriguez is stinking up the place again. It's almost as if when we didn't sell Jay in the summer we guaranteed him a starting game at centre forward.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 09, 2019, 10:49:46 PM
Darren switched Rodriguez and Gayle after about 20 mins. Gayle promptly scores, we line up from the resulting kick off with Gayle back out wide..


Darren's only major mistake this season imo is wasting Dwight Gayle. He'd be close to 30 goals if he'd played regularly through the middle.

Saw a stat yesterday that he has (before tonight) scored more goals coming in from out wide than through the middle, sure it was on Twitter possibly from Chris Lepkowski not 100% sure
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 09, 2019, 10:50:21 PM
Saw a stat yesterday that he has (before tonight) scored more goals coming in from out wide than through the middle, sure it was on Twitter possibly from Chris Lepkowski not 100% sure


He's had no choice  :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on February 09, 2019, 10:56:10 PM
Darren your doing ok apart from
Bartley being any where near the team or bench.
Gayle not being played as a centre forward always.
Brunty never in the middle,on the left or not at all.
Harper needs to start.
Jrod,should not be guaranteed to start everygame.
Nomore 3 at the back wingback experimentations,with limited centre halves expected to bring the ball out.
Apart from this and a few dodgy subs ala taking Barnes off v Boro Away,everything good,if Phillips gets back soon and the loan signings work out we might be ok


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on February 10, 2019, 12:42:24 AM
Job well done today Dave, tactics & subs to do the job spot on.  :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on February 10, 2019, 01:48:12 AM
Darren your doing ok apart from
Bartley being any where near the team or bench.
Gayle not being played as a centre forward always.
Brunty never in the middle,on the left or not at all.
Harper needs to start.
Jrod,should not be guaranteed to start everygame.
Nomore 3 at the back wingback experimentations,with limited centre halves expected to bring the ball out.
Apart from this and a few dodgy subs ala taking Barnes off v Boro Away,everything good,if Phillips gets back soon and the loan signings work out we might be ok

Darren your doing a great job. My advice is don't listen to a lot of people on this forum and stick to your guns. They wanted the "experienced" bloke down the road at Villa Park :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on February 10, 2019, 06:33:28 AM
Saw a stat yesterday that he has (before tonight) scored more goals coming in from out wide than through the middle, sure it was on Twitter possibly from Chris Lepkowski not 100% sure


I've been telling people for weeks that it makes no difference him starting from out wide. People just have it in their minds that your main goalscorer should play through the middle because that's what they grew up with, instead of understanding the modern game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on February 10, 2019, 06:45:57 AM
I thought he got his subs spot on yesterday.
They bought there big useless lump at the back on (Shawcross) and we responded in like by bringing our big useless lump at the back on.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 10, 2019, 07:39:22 AM

I've been telling people for weeks that it makes no difference him starting from out wide. People just have it in their minds that your main goalscorer should play through the middle because that's what they grew up with, instead of understanding the modern game.

Same. Totally agree.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ashdoy on February 10, 2019, 08:43:21 AM
He has his flaws, but so do our young crop of players who we would state “are learning their trade” so why don’t we cut DM some slack?

Yesterday’s first half was superb, an excellent display of football. Had the chance in the second half gone in (where Johansen/JRod/Gibbs were all involved in the quick flow of football) we’d have been screaming about that goal for years.

The second half was, despite everybody telling us he had no idea about game management after Weds’ cup defeat, outstanding game management.

With a limited budget, an ageing squad, and overrated squad, on the back of relegation, a club in turmoil, Darren Moore has played a huge part in rebuilding both the team and the club.

The away followings are superb, the football is so much better with improvements still clearly visible. He has helped reignite Albion on so many levels.

And for anyone who thinks he can’t see flaws, we now have the 2nd best defence in the league since switching to a back four (since early November).

He has his flaws, he has areas of improvement, but I for one am enjoying Big Dave’s reign.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on February 10, 2019, 10:46:14 AM
I thought he got his subs spot on yesterday.
They bought there big useless lump at the back on (Shawcross) and we responded in like by bringing our big useless lump at the back on.
superb, thank God there wasn't much time left for (Bartley) to cause any damage.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on February 10, 2019, 11:39:59 AM
He has his flaws, but so do our young crop of players who we would state “are learning their trade” so why don’t we cut DM some slack?

Yesterday’s first half was superb, an excellent display of football. Had the chance in the second half gone in (where Johansen/JRod/Gibbs were all involved in the quick flow of football) we’d have been screaming about that goal for years.

The second half was, despite everybody telling us he had no idea about game management after Weds’ cup defeat, outstanding game management.

With a limited budget, an ageing squad, and overrated squad, on the back of relegation, a club in turmoil, Darren Moore has played a huge part in rebuilding both the team and the club.

The away followings are superb, the football is so much better with improvements still clearly visible. He has helped reignite Albion on so many levels.

And for anyone who thinks he can’t see flaws, we now have the 2nd best defence in the league since switching to a back four (since early November).

He has his flaws, he has areas of improvement, but I for one am enjoying Big Dave’s reign.

Excellent post. It’s certainly a lot quieter on this thread when we win.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 10, 2019, 11:40:40 AM
He has his flaws, but so do our young crop of players who we would state “are learning their trade” so why don’t we cut DM some slack?

Yesterday’s first half was superb, an excellent display of football. Had the chance in the second half gone in (where Johansen/JRod/Gibbs were all involved in the quick flow of football) we’d have been screaming about that goal for years.

The second half was, despite everybody telling us he had no idea about game management after Weds’ cup defeat, outstanding game management.

With a limited budget, an ageing squad, and overrated squad, on the back of relegation, a club in turmoil, Darren Moore has played a huge part in rebuilding both the team and the club.

The away followings are superb, the football is so much better with improvements still clearly visible. He has helped reignite Albion on so many levels.

And for anyone who thinks he can’t see flaws, we now have the 2nd best defence in the league since switching to a back four (since early November).

He has his flaws, he has areas of improvement, but I for one am enjoying Big Dave’s reign.
Well....
The young players learning their trade will get taken out from time to time, we don't have the luxury of swapping the manager for a few games, he's the no1 every match
I'd also consider there should be no need for "cutting slack" an error is just that, repeating it is bad, repeating it in multiple is negligence.....
I think the majority are very supportive of DM to the point he has been afforded more time and allowed more mistakes
But we have to get away from this "hes one of our own" so cannot be criticised
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 10, 2019, 07:06:07 PM
superb, thank God there wasn't much time left for (Bartley) to cause any damage.
just what I was thinking when he was coming on.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ashdoy on February 10, 2019, 07:29:55 PM
Well....
The young players learning their trade will get taken out from time to time, we don't have the luxury of swapping the manager for a few games, he's the no1 every match
I'd also consider there should be no need for "cutting slack" an error is just that, repeating it is bad, repeating it in multiple is negligence.....
I think the majority are very supportive of DM to the point he has been afforded more time and allowed more mistakes
But we have to get away from this "hes one of our own" so cannot be criticised

Where did I say he can’t be criticised? I have criticised a few of his decisions this season, away games at Blackburn & Boro for a starters spring to mind where I have questioned some of his decisions.

But that hasn’t stopped me from seeing the plan,5)3 adventurer he has us on.

Just think of City had our stance and got on Pep’s back after that Leicester defeat, look at what we’d have missed out in as football fans.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 10, 2019, 07:57:06 PM
Where did I say he can’t be criticised? I have criticised a few of his decisions this season, away games at Blackburn & Boro for a starters spring to mind where I have questioned some of his decisions.

But that hasn’t stopped me from seeing the plan,5)3 adventurer he has us on.

Just think of City had our stance and got on Pep’s back after that Leicester defeat, look at what we’d have missed out in as football fans.
What did you mean by cut him some slack,if that doesn’t imply to be lenient with criticism?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on February 10, 2019, 08:22:26 PM
First time in a while but I agreed with his team selection and subs, I'm not surprised we won. Didn't post on here after the Brighton game but I was relieved we went out, we need full focus to be on the league. Well done to Darren, hopefully this is a sign of things to come from his in-game management.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ashdoy on February 10, 2019, 08:34:40 PM
What did you mean by cut him some slack,if that doesn’t imply to be lenient with criticism?

Judging from your posts on this thread, you don’t like the majority of DM’s selections or choices, this as I mentioned above is a little hasty given the circumstances he has been dealt.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on February 10, 2019, 08:48:29 PM

I've been telling people for weeks that it makes no difference him starting from out wide. People just have it in their minds that your main goalscorer should play through the middle because that's what they grew up with, instead of understanding the modern game.

Would you please enlighten on this aspect of the modern game. Cheers
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 10, 2019, 08:49:52 PM
Judging from your posts on this thread, you don’t like the majority of DM’s selections or choices, this as I mentioned above is a little hasty given the circumstances he has been dealt.
We are over halfway through the season
He has made many mistakes,we all do we are all human but if we continually repeat them that’s silly
352 took too long to change,Bartley coming out took too long,Harper coming in only happened because it was forced upon him...Brunt repeatedly at CM etc etc

I’d like Moore to be a success,but a successful manager
A makes decisions
B doesn’t need(or expect) slack
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ashdoy on February 10, 2019, 09:00:01 PM
We are over halfway through the season
He has made many mistakes,we all do we are all human but if we continually repeat them that’s silly
352 took too long to change,Bartley coming out took too long,Harper coming in only happened because it was forced upon him...Brunt repeatedly at CM etc etc

I’d like Moore to be a success,but a successful manager
A makes decisions
B doesn’t need(or expect) slack

Disagree.

Any manager with his limited experience is going to make mistakes, the fact that we are the leading scorers, arguably one of the most entertaining teams in the country and now with the 2nd best defence in the league shows he noticed those mistakes and put them right.

We don’t play 352 any more.
Bartley no longer a starter.
Harper needed time, if he had come in during our shambles earlier in the season then he could have crumbled.

You need to forgive and forget a little more, focus on the here and now rather than what happened 6 months ago.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 10, 2019, 10:04:04 PM
Disagree.

Any manager with his limited experience is going to make mistakes, the fact that we are the leading scorers, arguably one of the most entertaining teams in the country and now with the 2nd best defence in the league shows he noticed those mistakes and put them right.

We don’t play 352 any more.
Bartley no longer a starter.
Harper needed time, if he had come in during our shambles earlier in the season then he could have crumbled.

You need to forgive and forget a little more, focus on the here and now rather than what happened 6 months ago.
What are you disagreeing with?
I said we all make mistakes

You need to stop telling people what they need to do
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on February 11, 2019, 08:36:05 AM

I've been telling people for weeks that it makes no difference him starting from out wide. People just have it in their minds that your main goalscorer should play through the middle because that's what they grew up with, instead of understanding the modern game.

The fact you keep banging on about it doesn't mean others can't disagree, and doesn't necessarily mean those who do disagree with you are either entrenched or have no understanding of the modern game either. It means they disagree with you and feel his talents could be more effectively employed.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on February 11, 2019, 09:50:15 AM
I reckon DM is doing a good job. I actually thought this season would be one where we hovered around mid table and gradually rebuilt our club. However he has galvanised the club and we are in with a very good chance of promotion. Returning to the PL is not something I relish but I am certainly enjoying the present times with exciting football and actually being entertained.
There will always be some form of criticism of any football manager because we all think we can do it. However my fantasy team is struggling and I've got the whole league squads to pick from !!!
Let Darren get on with it, we would have snapped hands off if we had ben offered 4th place at this stage (with a game in hand) before the season started.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 11, 2019, 10:17:34 AM
As long as we pick our best players and therefore strongest team then the results look after themselves.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on February 11, 2019, 10:23:39 AM
The team that started Saturday is more than capable of going on a run and winning this division.

Tomorrows game is massive, win that and we look like serious contenders to at least take 2nd spot.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ashdoy on February 11, 2019, 10:29:40 AM
What are you disagreeing with?
I said we all make mistakes

You need to stop telling people what they need to do

Sorry Sir.


Lets agree to disagree, we'll see where DM takes us come the end fo the season wont we.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wigmore on February 12, 2019, 12:34:38 PM


You need to stop telling people what they need to do
Oh, the irony..... :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 12, 2019, 10:00:50 PM
Looking like it's playoffs for us and I don't think that's guaranteed, home form is woeful and without the talent of Barnes Moore and Jones are getting found out with their inability to be able to break teams down. Think their reliance on favourites will cost them in long run.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on February 12, 2019, 10:03:15 PM
Gone from unconvinced to wondering if the blokes one dimensional or just ignorant. Not for me Big Dave sorry.

His plan A got sussed fast and the sames happened to his plan B but still he perseveres.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 12, 2019, 10:06:12 PM
Fast becoming an unchanging dinosaur like Pulis.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 12, 2019, 10:17:27 PM
Fast becoming an unchanging dinosaur like Pulis.
no matter what we thought of Pulisball at least he was tactically aware this coaching staff is anything but and the football is becoming as bad. Moore and Jones look clueless and will cost us our best hope of promotion, same mistakes cost us week in week out and think we will end up outside play offs.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on February 12, 2019, 10:34:03 PM
We're under achieving a bit now for the squad we have. Not sure what our 'Albion DNA' Darren speaks about os to be honest - 30 passes along the back then a long diagonal ball?  Our best teams were always tough to break down , broke quickly, had a focal point up front and sometimes wingers.

I think we should go back to basics, tight, compact, width and pace at home. fewer risks in possession.  Hit teams on the break away from home. Defend and organise us like he did in the last six games of last season and stop trying to emulate Pep with Pulis defenders or this is going to end in tears sooner than the end of the season.



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 12, 2019, 10:37:23 PM


Right subs at the right time for me. Would of preferred Barry starting instead of Livermore but 3 games in a week is probably to much for him. 

Shame individual mistakes cost us the game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on February 12, 2019, 10:43:01 PM
no matter what we thought of Pulisball at least he was tactically aware this coaching staff is anything but and the football is becoming as bad. Moore and Jones look clueless and will cost us our best hope of promotion, same mistakes cost us week in week out and think we will end up outside play offs.
If the same mistakes are costing us week in week out, then we wouldn't be 4th would we? If Moore and Jones were clueless, we wouldn't be above Swansea and Stoke, who both finished above us last season and spent more money than us last summer, would we? And if you seriously believe that we will finish outside the play offs, and want to back that opinion with some cash, please PM me and I'm sure we can arrange a small wager  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 12, 2019, 10:46:37 PM
no matter what we thought of Pulisball at least he was tactically aware this coaching staff is anything but and the football is becoming as bad. Moore and Jones look clueless and will cost us our best hope of promotion, same mistakes cost us week in week out and think we will end up outside play offs.
Yeah, tactically aware enough to play 9 at the back at home against Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Watford etc. etc. etc.

Boro are also below us by the way.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 12, 2019, 10:51:41 PM
If the same mistakes are costing us week in week out, then we wouldn't be 4th would we? If Moore and Jones were clueless, we wouldn't be above Swansea and Stoke, who both finished above us last season and spent more money than us last summer, would we? And if you seriously believe that we will finish outside the play offs, and want to back that opinion with some cash, please PM me and I'm sure we can arrange a small wager  ;D ;D
simple because we have a forward line that has scored 62 goals and we had a talent in Barnes who made their team talks easy, as for my view on us not being in play offs that's my opinion and I'd never bet against the Baggies
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 12, 2019, 10:56:24 PM
Yeah, tactically aware enough to play 9 at the back at home against Bournemouth, Huddersfield, Watford etc. etc. etc.

Boro are also  below us by the way.
not advocating getting in a Pulis type coach but the football that we are witnessing in the absence of Harvey Barnes is ponderous with no plan from where I'm sitting
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maximus on February 12, 2019, 10:56:56 PM
I did find it funny our two subs was 35 year old Wes and then 37 year old Barry, While Burke isn't considered worthy, Just shows how much we depended on Barnes/Phillips as the runners with the ball. Our loans doing the work all season. What a weird season if anything, Ancient players, Loans all over the joint. But we got some good youth talent.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on February 12, 2019, 10:59:07 PM
Panic over. DM said the playing out from the back is going to continue. From Matt Wilson

"It's what's got us to where we are now, we continue to play the football that we feel is right with the personnel we've got. Whenever there's a transition sometimes you've got to take the rough with the smooth to set a culture."
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: graka on February 12, 2019, 11:06:54 PM
Regardless of which division we are in they both need to go in my opinion, and I'm sorry to say every Albion fan I know.
I don't know an Albion fan who wanted him to get the job but the run at the end of the season made it impossible not to.
We are where we are in the league because of a few quality players we have or had papering over the many cracks our management team continue to ignore.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on February 12, 2019, 11:07:54 PM
simple because we have a forward line that has scored 62 goals and we had a talent in Barnes who made their team talks easy, as for my view on us not being in play offs that's my opinion and I'd never bet against the Baggies
You'd "never bet against the Baggies", but you're quite happy to talk them down. Ok.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 12, 2019, 11:15:59 PM
I've been critical of Big Dave but I don't know what else he was supposed to do. We were still the better footballing team tonight.

We have been making mistakes ever since Game 1when we lost to Bolton. My gripes were regarding selections.  Murphy was never going to be as good as Barnes.  We can beat Villa.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 12, 2019, 11:17:16 PM
You'd "never bet against the Baggies", but you're quite happy to talk them down. Ok.
if I lived in a fairytale Albion would win the Premier league, champions league, FA Cup, league Cup, European championships and World Cup evey season but sadly I don't. On the basis of our recent form and the form of teams around us I think we will finish 7th which is hard to take. Management team seem to be unable to stop the terrible mistakes that occur in majority of our games and with needing two or more goals to get point, over the season cost teams points.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 12, 2019, 11:17:53 PM
Listening to D.M on the radio after the match, he said he was delighted with a point, Well i wasn't and I am told that the penalty award was a "joke" but I have not had the chance to see the replay yet. I do know that Sam Johnstone mad an excellent save to keep us in the game at 1-2 , so it is easy to see that we could have quite easily lost the game 3-1. I really do not know what the plan was tonight, but it fell apart after five minutes, and there did not appear to be a plan B.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 12, 2019, 11:35:51 PM
Oh, the irony..... :D
It was deliberately so
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 12, 2019, 11:41:20 PM
Listening to D.M on the radio after the match, he said he was delighted with a point, Well i wasn't and I am told that the penalty award was a "joke" but I have not had the chance to see the replay yet. I do know that Sam Johnstone mad an excellent save to keep us in the game at 1-2 , so it is easy to see that we could have quite easily lost the game 3-1. I really do not know what the plan was tonight, but it fell apart after five minutes, and there did not appear to be a plan B.
ref made up for shocker in first half when Holgate got assaulted
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 12, 2019, 11:43:04 PM
Listening to D.M on the radio after the match, he said he was delighted with a point, Well i wasn't and I am told that the penalty award was a "joke" but I have not had the chance to see the replay yet. I do know that Sam Johnstone mad an excellent save to keep us in the game at 1-2 , so it is easy to see that we could have quite easily lost the game 3-1. I really do not know what the plan was tonight, but it fell apart after five minutes, and there did not appear to be a plan B.

Interesting, he did not look happy on the sky interview. The only positive he could say was we kept going until the end.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ashdoy on February 12, 2019, 11:48:11 PM
Albion fans under Pulis “the football is shocking, bored of this lump it long stuff”

Albion fans under Moore “why are we trying to play football, just revert to basics and not try to change a culture, to improve and move us forward”

Our fan base at times baffles me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 12, 2019, 11:51:01 PM
Albion fans under Pulis “the football is shocking, bored of this lump it long stuff”

Albion fans under Moore “why are we trying to play football, just revert to basics and not try to change a culture, to improve and move us forward”

Our fan base at times baffles me.
owner never invested in first team so we have still got Pulis type players who especially at back our not comfortable on ball and can't pass wind
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ashdoy on February 13, 2019, 07:00:13 AM
owner never invested in first team so we have still got Pulis type players who especially at back our not comfortable on ball and can't pass wind

So by that theory, we should have just kept Pulis.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on February 13, 2019, 07:19:09 AM
Listening to D.M on the radio after the match, he said he was delighted with a point, Well i wasn't and I am told that the penalty award was a "joke" but I have not had the chance to see the replay yet. I do know that Sam Johnstone mad an excellent save to keep us in the game at 1-2 , so it is easy to see that we could have quite easily lost the game 3-1. I really do not know what the plan was tonight, but it fell apart after five minutes, and there did not appear to be a plan B.

We also let them in down our right side after we had equalised for a second time and then contrived to almost let their player go clean thorough on goal in the dying seconds resulting in a booking for Dawson. Moore said they were tired but there is no excuse for a lack of basic organisation .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 13, 2019, 08:29:07 AM
I gave up listening to his press conferences a long time ago, they provide no insights whatsoever, just the same trodden out cliches.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 13, 2019, 08:54:14 AM
I see familiar faces have returned - it was lonely on Saturday without you...  ???
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 13, 2019, 08:59:28 AM
I see familiar faces have returned - it was lonely on Saturday without you...  ???

Strangely enough I was still around on Saturday  :o
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on February 13, 2019, 09:51:37 AM
I think Big Dave was very clever in switching our setup to a 4-3-3 ahead of the Leeds game, however since that game at the start of November we have won one home league match which was against Wigan.

I think the 4-3-3 is fine when we play away as the onus is on the home side to come at us a bit, we then pick them off. Its professional and workman like as we saw with the wins at Bolton and Stoke, but we miss the magic of Barnes.

However the home setup has to change, one win in the last 7 at home in the league now says that this formation and approach isnt working. Pretty much every team we have played since the Leeds game at home has come to defend and get everybody behind the ball (Villa and Norwich were possibly the exception, Villa should of won and we should of beat Norwich)

Teams have wised up, at the start of the season both QPR and Bristol City come to have a go and we took them apart, along with pretty comfortable wins v Stoke, Millwall and Reading, teams are wise and they know with our attacking players (especially when we had Barnes) we would take them apart so the are now getting everyone behind the ball, happy to keep it 0-0, frustrate the crowd and try a nick a goal so when we gift them goals like we did v Middlesbrough and Forest, they wont believe their luck.

At the moment we are very predictable at home, there isnt that spark or flair, We are missing Barnes and Phillips but Barnes has gone for good and Phillips does tend to be injured a lot then take a few games to get upto speed so if i was Moore i would be planning without him and treat him as a bonus when he does come back.

If i was Moore now i would be going back to a 3-5-2 at home with Hegazi, Dawson and Livermore at the back. The reason for Livermore is when he has time on the ball he can use it well, as we have seen most teams are happy to let us have it so i would have him as the ball player at the back, the one who passes it around and who can carry it forward into midfield for attacks. Tosin or Holgate can also play as one of the three centre halves as no doubt we will get injuries and suspensions.

I would have Holgate at right wing back with Murphy able to play there and Gibbs and on the other side (and Montero and Brunt able to play there) with how teams setup against our wing backs are going to be pretty much wingers anyway.

Have Barry (and Field) in the defensive midfield role with Johansen (and Harper) as the box to box midfielder. In the attacking midfield free role (between the midfield and attack) i would have Hoolahan (Phillips if he is fit) with maybe Montero being able to play there. (I would say Morrison but he doesnt even make the squads at the moment so not sure how bad his injury is)

Upfront play Jrod and Gayle as a partnership with HRK, Montero and Murphy all able to play there too.

Sounds very football manager i know but to me that plays to our strengths when teams setup to defend, home or away, and we have the option of 4-3-3 for teams who come at us a bit.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on February 13, 2019, 10:15:53 AM
Strangely enough I was still around on Saturday  :o

Dare I say this but I think you may need to get out a  little more chap.

There's pubs, restaurants and many other places to be of a Saturday night ;D  ;) .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 13, 2019, 10:16:48 AM
Dare I say this but I think you may need to get out a  little more chap.

There's pubs, restaurants and many other places to be of a Saturday night ;D  ;) .

Not sure they would appreciate me giving my constructive criticism of their menu  ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiebof on February 13, 2019, 10:23:19 AM
Interesting post Albion79, I have been saying for a while that I don't think this way of playing is working at home. The return to 3412 could work however I'd play it differently personnel wise to what you've suggested above - I think you'd want Phillips and Gibbs as wing-backs as they were such a threat earlier in the season.

I actually think tweaking the current 433 would be beneficial. We currently play with a deep centre forward and two wide forwards that stay up. I'd play the centre forward more orthodox and asked to stay high, lead the line and look to get in behind and give the wide players the freedom to drift inside into the no.10 positions or stay wide as suits. I think this would give us more outlets on the ball and make us rely on playing through the deep lying pivot in midfield so much as teams are coming to The Hawthorns and have worked us out: they press with 4 men high and the back 4 and two central midfielders just sit deep. It negates the space for the wide forwards and gives them a chance of turning the ball over high and scoring - as happened last night and vs Boro. With everyone available, I'd play it like this at home:

Johnstone

Holgate
Dawson
Hegazi
Gibbs

Harper
Barry
Johansen

Murphy
Gayle
Phillips

What I will say about Moore is, although he is sometimes slow to change things, he does usually get to the right answer, be it a tactical change or personnel change. We must remember, he has to manage a squad of players and look after players confidence as well as morale within the squad. He does this by being loyal and fair to players so although things are obviously not working, he rarely just shunts somebody out into the cold or change it immediately, he gives things a chance and is a bit more 'fair' which fits into his mantra and culture he tries to implement. I'm hopeful that in the next home game he will tweak it as it needs to happen before we run out of games.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on February 13, 2019, 10:25:58 AM
I think Big Dave was very clever in switching our setup to a 4-3-3 ahead of the Leeds game, however since that game at the start of November we have won one home league match which was against Wigan.

I think the 4-3-3 is fine when we play away as the onus is on the home side to come at us a bit, we then pick them off. Its professional and workman like as we saw with the wins at Bolton and Stoke, but we miss the magic of Barnes.

However the home setup has to change, one win in the last 7 at home in the league now says that this formation and approach isnt working. Pretty much every team we have played since the Leeds game at home has come to defend and get everybody behind the ball (Villa and Norwich were possibly the exception, Villa should of won and we should of beat Norwich)

Teams have wised up, at the start of the season both QPR and Bristol City come to have a go and we took them apart, along with pretty comfortable wins v Stoke, Millwall and Reading, teams are wise and they know with our attacking players (especially when we had Barnes) we would take them apart so the are now getting everyone behind the ball, happy to keep it 0-0, frustrate the crowd and try a nick a goal so when we gift them goals like we did v Middlesbrough and Forest, they wont believe their luck.

At the moment we are very predictable at home, there isnt that spark or flair, We are missing Barnes and Phillips but Barnes has gone for good and Phillips does tend to be injured a lot then take a few games to get upto speed so if i was Moore i would be planning without him and treat him as a bonus when he does come back.

If i was Moore now i would be going back to a 3-5-2 at home with Hegazi, Dawson and Livermore at the back. The reason for Livermore is when he has time on the ball he can use it well, as we have seen most teams are happy to let us have it so i would have him as the ball player at the back, the one who passes it around and who can carry it forward into midfield for attacks. Tosin or Holgate can also play as one of the three centre halves as no doubt we will get injuries and suspensions.

I would have Holgate at right wing back with Murphy able to play there and Gibbs and on the other side (and Montero and Brunt able to play there) with how teams setup against our wing backs are going to be pretty much wingers anyway.

Have Barry (and Field) in the defensive midfield role with Johansen (and Harper) as the box to box midfielder. In the attacking midfield free role (between the midfield and attack) i would have Hoolahan (Phillips if he is fit) with maybe Montero being able to play there. (I would say Morrison but he doesnt even make the squads at the moment so not sure how bad his injury is)

Upfront play Jrod and Gayle as a partnership with HRK, Montero and Murphy all able to play there too.

Sounds very football manager i know but to me that plays to our strengths when teams setup to defend, home or away, and we have the option of 4-3-3 for teams who come at us a bit.


It's not the 4-3-3 that's the problem. The biggest problem we have at the moment is we keep giving teams a goal start with stupid decision making at the back.

I do agree we need a plan B though because whatever system you play by default you have to make adjustments at times to suit the circumstances. Maybe a diamond system may be worth looking at on certain occasions:


                                     Johnstone

Holgate           Daws / Tosin             Hegazi                Gibbs

                                     Barry

                      Harper                      Johansen

                                    Phillips

                      Rodriguez                  Gayle


It's a way of making sure we retain numbers in midfield so we don't get over-run with the two in the middle and a way of getting Gayle through the middle alongside Rodriguez.

You can argue that the system lacks width but we have marauding full backs so that shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: we8seals on February 13, 2019, 10:44:02 AM
Was clear to everyone apart from our management team that 433 was not going to work against the system Forest employed against us. (Particularly with the personnel we had). 5
352 - 442 - 4321 would all have given us a better chance. As would a member of front three with a physical presence!

Our home record is abysmal and getting worse - the fewest clean sheets at home of anyone in the league says it all. We have to be more flexible at home - we are being out coached as much as outplayed
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on February 13, 2019, 11:07:33 AM

It's not the 4-3-3 that's the problem. The biggest problem we have at the moment is we keep giving teams a goal start with stupid decision making at the back.

I do agree we need a plan B though because whatever system you play by default you have to make adjustments at times to suit the circumstances. Maybe a diamond system may be worth looking at on certain occasions:


                                     Johnstone

Holgate           Daws / Tosin             Hegazi                Gibbs

                                     Barry

                      Harper                      Johansen

                                    Phillips

                      Rodriguez                  Gayle


It's a way of making sure we retain numbers in midfield so we don't get over-run with the two in the middle and a way of getting Gayle through the middle alongside Rodriguez.

You can argue that the system lacks width but we have marauding full backs so that shouldn't be a problem.

I also think the 4-3-3 isn't suiting us any more. I think the team you've picked here is our best line-up. This would also allow us to have Murphy and Montero as options off the bench should we need the extra pace in the closing stages of games. Kanu, Brunt, Livermore and Bartley would be the other subs.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on February 13, 2019, 11:09:27 AM
I'd agree with the side above.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on February 13, 2019, 11:11:55 AM
Not sure they would appreciate me giving my constructive criticism of their menu  ;D

Go on give it a go,  I  do that all the time and and it only usually ever ends up in a row  ;D .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 13, 2019, 11:14:33 AM
Go on give it a go,  I  do that all the time and and it only usually ever ends up in a row  ;D .

I'm a lover not a fighter, Dan  ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on February 13, 2019, 11:54:53 AM
I didn't see the so called dive,I'm glad we got the pen and the point,keeps us ticking over because with our squad I would like to think it will hopefully click into a team.
No one mentioned yet about the deliberate and obvious time wasting from forest ref very poor.
We didn't press them high enough if we had we would have easily win it their defence was so poor.
Livermore and Johansen playing like defenders far too deep terrified to go over the halfway line,missed hegazi,what did tosin  do all night faffing about he's like a spider with that ball.
A poor display overall,highlight for me was the appreciation for our ex player.
By the way,I thought the bre was strangely quiet mostly,
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 13, 2019, 12:36:37 PM
The form of Rekeem Harper must be making DM cringe with embarassment at his lack of faith in him. Mind you, he may have to make way for Brunt on Saturday if he is fit.
In all seriousness if this kid does not sign a contract, somebody needs to be sacked.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on February 13, 2019, 12:50:51 PM
I don't think playing out from the back is a bad way to go - some of my happiest times as an Albion fan were under Mowbray, where we did it constantly. But these players can't do it. They just don't get it. They make passes that go nowhere, do nothing to create attacks, and then they make bad passes that play each other into trouble. They can't be talking to each other either, because last night there were times when only the crowd was shouting 'man on'. If he wanted to change the culture, he had to change more players. Keeping last seasons squad together isn't helping him.

Then you have another substitution made as we are defending a set piece, leading to another goal conceded. I desperately want Moore to be a success, but it's becoming harder and harder to defend him as he continues to make the same mistakes.

3 home wins in 12 games (all competitions) tells its own story.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 13, 2019, 01:08:06 PM
I think we have hit another crunch time now. Similar to the death throes of 352, the 433 is now not working very well, which granted is mainly down to the loss of Barnes and Phillips but, as neither will be returning anytime soon, we need a change.

Whatever that change is, whether 451 or even a return to 352, Moore needs to act quickly as our home form is becoming embarrassing.

Thankfully, we are still in and around the top 2 so it's not too late, but we do need to kick on now as it will go right to the wire.

I have been impressed with his subs though over the last 2 games, he has acted timely and got them mostly bang on. Last night, Livermore was not just poor but actually a bit of a liability, but there was a time where Moore would have stuck with him, instead he acted and got him off and we looked far better with Barry on the field.

If last night highlighted anything though, it was the weakness in our squad. Livermore, Dawson, Gibbs, Rodriguez and Gayle, all highly cossetted by some, were all poor. Add to that, the new signings Murphy and, to a lesser extent, Johanson were no better and it shows how important it is to find a system that plays to their strengths rather than highlighting their many frailties.

Business end of the season is fast approaching and all sides will be feeling the strain, we need to re-group and come out all guns blazing, starting on Saturday!!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 13, 2019, 02:11:51 PM
The form of Rekeem Harper must be making DM cringe with embarassment at his lack of faith in him. Mind you, he may have to make way for Brunt on Saturday if he is fit.
In all seriousness if this kid does not sign a contract, somebody needs to be sacked.

That would be a disgrace if it happens. Harper who puts his foot in and can pass a ball and is growing with each game or Brunt who cannot tackle and his hopeful balls are just that these days, hopeful. Barry, Harper and Johansen would be ideal.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 13, 2019, 04:27:05 PM
Quote from: ashdoy link=topic=21637.msg645605#msg645605 date=155004uh 1141
So by that theory, we should have just kept Pulis.
uh no owner should have invested in player's who would suit the style of play coach envisages  :o
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: stoxman on February 13, 2019, 07:42:10 PM
What I (and I’m sure others) struggle to understand is the suicidal defending given the resources we have.  We have:

-Two prem full backs. Easily too good for the Championship
-Dawson who is admired in the Premier, Hegazi who one his day is great, Tosin who is regarded as one of Man City’s gems
-A keeper who the Villa fans were desperate to keep
-A manager who, whilst not the most elegant of defenders, was the perfect Championship defender and who also “benefited” from seeing Pulis defensive coaching first hand
-A first team coach who worked with probably the best defensive national team

How does this lot come together to form a mess that needs to score 3 goals to win a game???
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on February 13, 2019, 07:47:29 PM
This was a typical game that we had need for a big guy up front because the two animals forest had in CD were hopeless when pressed and hoofed it anywhere,have we got one?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 13, 2019, 08:00:15 PM
What I (and I’m sure others) struggle to understand is the suicidal defending given the resources we have.  We have:

-Two prem full backs. Easily too good for the Championship
-Dawson who is admired in the Premier, Hegazi who one his day is great, Tosin who is regarded as one of Man City’s gems
-A keeper who the Villa fans were desperate to keep
-A manager who, whilst not the most elegant of defenders, was the perfect Championship defender and who also “benefited” from seeing Pulis defensive coaching first hand
-A first team coach who worked with probably the best defensive national team

How does this lot come together to form a mess that needs to score 3 goals to win a game???


- Holgate is a centre back. Gibbs I agree.
- Dawson in 5 Premier League seasons could never hold down a regular place as a Central Defender, and imo would have drifted down the leagues if we had virtually any other head coach.
- When you look at Guzan, Nyland etc. He's probably not that bad. Problem we've got is he hardly saves anything on target (penalties aside) {in fact thinking about we'd have great Special Teams, J Rod on to score pens, Johnstone to save them}
- Mowbray was as no nonsense a defender as you'll ever see.
- Not sure any team coached by Bobby Martinez is defensively sound.


Aside from these points, I am also totally baffled why we continue to suicidally pass between the keeper, the back 2 or 3 and the pivot.  :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Pureade1 on February 13, 2019, 10:07:41 PM
Darren Moore is the head coach and is not responsible for player recruitment, i am sure he has a say of course but with this little idiot that owns us we will always have one hand tied behind our back.

Ive said on other threads that if we dont go up we are in big trouble next season as Lai has no intention of allowing the club to spend money he is trying to recouperate his losses as right now he looks foolish for buying a business and letting it depreciate in value so much, one thing the chinese dont like is looking foolish.

Fact is big dave has got us to 4th in the table with an assortment of players most of whom wont be here next season if we dont go up. Footballers are notoriously fickle so whilst yes he has some shortfalls (tactically he has alot to learn for example) lets be aware of what he has actually done.

Bigger question to all those saying he isnt up to the job? Who else would want to manage us with an owner spending no money and a fanbase that expects to be fighting to go up?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on February 14, 2019, 10:31:55 AM
If we are realistic we are all hoping for a top two finish but results and experience of performance dictate that this is unlikely. We are coming slightly adrift of the top 2 who keep grinding out results (apart from Norwich last night) and where teams seemed to be scared of us earlier in the season, they don't appear to be now.
Yes Forest wasted time. played defensively and generally ran the game down, it has to be said we gifted them 2 goals and had little idea of how to break them down even though they weren't that good - just organised. Sadly they won't be the only team to try and do that against us and we now present as a one trick pony that can't change its ways. Compete against that and you've got a chance is what other teams are thinking. We need a serious re think about strategy and playing to our strengths. We have failed to impose ourselves on opposition too many times recently and we will eventually run out of games. Sorry this sounds a bit doom and gloom it's just how I see it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 14, 2019, 11:23:48 AM
This division is average.  Bristol City have just won 7 on the bounce.

The only constant is us gifting goals to the opposition.  Yes it's playing out from the back but it's also a reluctance for the midfield to show for the ball. 

The other thing I have noticed is seems generally seem quicker than us but lack the technical quality.  We seem slower but have the technical ability.  We have lost the ability to quickly transition from midfield to attack with the loss of Barnes / Phillips.

I don't think we have been fluent recently with J Rod and Gayle, so if the latter gets banned, it might work in our favour with 1 up top and 2 genuine wingers in Montero and Murphy.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 14, 2019, 11:44:47 AM
He has a mind set.
He is blind to the fact that his tactics have now been sussed.
He must consider plan B.....
Keep the ball higher up the field and stop messing around at the back.
Forget about tippy tappy passing at the back. Tell the players to move the ball up a hell of a lot quicker to stop the opposition funnelling back to defend their goal.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on February 14, 2019, 11:54:06 AM
Albion fans under Pulis “the football is shocking, bored of this lump it long stuff”

Albion fans under Moore “why are we trying to play football, just revert to basics and not try to change a culture, to improve and move us forward”

Our fan base at times baffles me.

Ditto, its bemusing isn't it?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on February 14, 2019, 11:58:17 AM
He has a mind set.
He is blind to the fact that his tactics have now been sussed.
He must consider plan B.....
Keep the ball higher up the field and stop messing around at the back.
Forget about tippy tappy passing at the back. Tell the players to move the ball up a hell of a lot quicker to stop the opposition funnelling back to defend their goal.

Are you advocating a lump forward? A la Tony Pulis
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 14, 2019, 12:17:57 PM
Are you advocating a lump forward? A la Tony Pulis

To our 5ft 8" striker...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on February 14, 2019, 02:29:10 PM
There is a halfway house between lumping it forward and Johnstone passing it to the edge of the box when there are three opposition players hanging around
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on February 14, 2019, 02:36:54 PM
There is a halfway house between lumping it forward and Johnstone passing it to the edge of the box when there are three opposition players hanging around

Exactly. 1 thing is for sure,  It's better to lose possession in the middle of the park than on the edge of your own box.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 16, 2019, 01:54:26 PM
Club are considering giving Darren a new deal, which I think Is daft at this moment in time. Do that business in summer with less distractions. Moore's position could be strengthened if he brings us up so I'd be surprised if he signed new deal now anyone know what his current status is with regards to contract?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on February 16, 2019, 04:28:11 PM
"There's only one big dave" rings away away

Shows how far away he is from being under pressure.

If we hold on then we've got 7 points out of boro, stoke, forest & villa which isn't the end of the world
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on February 16, 2019, 05:13:05 PM
He’s doing well for me and that doesn’t change when we lose a match. Mistakes? Yes of course but for his first ever job he’s doing great for me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on February 16, 2019, 05:33:46 PM
4 away clean sheets in a row. Last time we did that Darren stared in them.

He's earnt to see the season through
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on February 16, 2019, 05:46:56 PM
4 away clean sheets in a row. Last time we did that Darren stared in them.

He's earnt to see the season through

Very true!. Needs to be given time to stamp his mark on this team.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on February 16, 2019, 05:48:53 PM
Won today without Gayle and Phillips. He makes mistakes and gets criticized when we lose / draw. When we win we should give him credit. The comments aimed at him are about game management / tactics and substitutions....today he got all of them right. Ironically in alot of the games against the "bigger teams" he has done well, we beat Leeds, Norwich and Sheff Utd.
For someone who is "inexperienced" and "tactically naive" he put one over on the manager we should have appointed who was more experienced and would have done better than Moore ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 16, 2019, 06:26:17 PM
Fair play to Darren Moore.  I think Gayle’s ban actually helped us today.  Since we lost Barnes I just don’t think we’ve been as threatening with J Rod and Gayle together.  Personally I think we look better with 1 front man and 2 out and out wingers.  To date J Rod hasn’t been dropped at all for league games.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ashdoy on February 16, 2019, 07:37:50 PM
Superb again today.

Away from home we are a force.

Wonder if Zippy still hates Big Dave.

Boing Boing
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 16, 2019, 07:51:27 PM
Superb again today.

Away from home we are a force.

Wonder if Zippy still hates Big Dave.

Boing Boing
And there in is the problem
I don't hate him, never have...I want him to succeeed because then wba succeed , the fact that you have to be seen to hate him if giving an opinion needs addressing
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 16, 2019, 08:23:58 PM
John Percy Twitter Account

“Darren Moore doing a brilliant job at West Brom. Always felt there’s been a sense that the squad is so good he’s not had to do much, which is balls IMO. Hugely under-rated work so far #wba”

That from a reliable jurno, who knows a bit about football
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dan on February 16, 2019, 08:33:48 PM
He suffers a little I think because of how well we've done in previous years in the championship after relegation, which isn't really representative of the difficulties most relegated teams find in this league, particularly those who've been out the championship for a long time and aren't used to it. Most relegated teams do not get promoted after relegation, or even make the play offs.

Stoke are a good example of how difficult it can be, they spent 60m - if you looked down the list signing what appear to be very good championship players, retained most their squad from last season, got a highly rated experienced championship manager in......and they've completely tanked this season. So they went for the highly rated league one manager.....and they've got worse.

Do not underestimate how difficult turning the mentality of a team that's had to just aim for 40 points a season to a team that wins promotion is. Far more experienced managers than Moore have tried and failed at that.

The circumstances of this season were hardly ideal either, no background structure in place behind him at the season start, no scouting system, no assistant manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnnyg on February 16, 2019, 09:43:43 PM
Hands up all those who were adamant that Dean Smith was going to be our saviour.
After that lesson today, I think we'll take Big Dave over Mr Smith all day long, thank you.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on February 16, 2019, 11:24:31 PM
One of his best managerial performances today, got the in-game management spot on, credit where it is due.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: leeiswba on February 16, 2019, 11:32:34 PM
Only a few comments in here tonight that’s it. Imagine the amount of posts if we had lost
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on February 17, 2019, 03:18:44 AM
He has a mind set.
He is blind to the fact that his tactics have now been sussed.
He must consider plan B.....
Keep the ball higher up the field and stop messing around at the back.
Forget about tippy tappy passing at the back. Tell the players to move the ball up a hell of a lot quicker to stop the opposition funnelling back to defend their goal.

You seem to be advocating ‘hoof ball’, the one thing you constantly criticise us for during the in game chat!! Make your mind up!

Smith didn’t ‘suss’ us yesterday😁
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on February 17, 2019, 06:56:43 AM
Only a few comments in here tonight that’s it. Imagine the amount of posts if we had lost


A dissenting voice is always the loudest that's human nature I'm afraid.

Moore is doing a great job and he managed yesterday just about perfectly.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on February 17, 2019, 07:06:25 AM
Huge win for the big man. Utilised his bench and squad will considering who was unavailable. Biggest win v villa for many years and that shouldn't be forgotten. Keep it up big man
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on February 17, 2019, 09:09:36 AM
Brilliant management from Big Dave yesterday.

Got the lead, defended it well, never looked in too much trouble - perfect game management.

Reason i say perfect was since we were being lauded (and rightly so) for our attacking players, we now have lost -

Barnes (arguably our talisman, his goals and assists show that)
Phillips (Our best attacking option other than Barnes)
Gayle (one of the best goalscorers in the league, his pace, movement and workrate are brilliant too)

Robson-Kanu - at half time we lost a player who although quite often gets stick, when we play 4-3-3, especially away really offers something. He holds the ball well, and offers a outlet. (To be fair it doesnt work as well at home as the onus is on us more to break teams down)

So 2nd half we are without 3 key attacking players, we have Jrod and a out of form and confidence winger (Murphy) being backed up attacking wise by two midfielders - Harper and Field.

I think to see out the game as easy as we did is credit to Mooro and the coaching team, it looks like we have found our way of playing away, they now need to look at the system and whatever tweaks are needed for the home games.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on February 17, 2019, 09:17:51 AM
Good use of Field, covered a lot of ground second half
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on February 17, 2019, 09:24:09 AM
I was one of those posters who was in favour of appointing a more experienced coach ahead of Darren last summer, two of  my preferred choices Smith and Potter are both in the Championship at clubs that are 13 points and several places behind us in the league. So Darren wins, right?

Well not entirely I dismissed talk of manager x being appointed and we would be 10 points clear at the top of the league as nonesense well so is the lazy narrative of Moore doing better than Potter and Smith over the course of less than a season at clubs with very differing circumstances.

A surprigsingly insightful poster on Villa talk said of his club "a place where promising managerial careers come to die" and Swansea's travails are well documented ( https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/feb/16/swansea-city-graham-potter-model-club-to-cautionary-tale?CMP=share_btn_tw). These are both clubs with real challenges that might be beyond the one faced by Darren and who knows what would have happened had we swapped coaches you never get to find out.

Ultimately whoever we appointed had a twofold brief. 1. Change the style of play. 2. Keep us competitive and get us into the play-offs. Darren has done this. Without the first condition you might argue that we might be in a better place but again you don't know and none of the teams ahead of us the division play Pulisball.

Darren has done a good job to date in his own right and does not need the validation of other coaches struggles elsewhere nor the unflatering comparisons with Wilder,Bielsa or Farke. Nobody is a fraud here nobody is stealing a living etc... they are just coaches doing the best they can in a competitive league and frankly way too much criticism is heaped on their collective shoulders.


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 17, 2019, 10:30:10 AM
Moore did great yesterday and a 7pts haul from Stoke, Forest and Villa is excellent.

We look more comfortable playing away and I think if Forest is anything to go by we have to use the flanks more to get behind teams.

Harper is just a great find and his legs provide the foil for Barry's passing range.  I think Darren Moore will only utilise Johansen when Barry is fatigued.  Looks like Murphy is going to play regularly and I hope we play a left winger whether that's HRK, Phillips or Montero.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 17, 2019, 11:11:14 AM
Got the team set up right yesterday in the absence of Gayle and Phillips. Goal keeper and back four pick themselves midfield three of Harper, Barry and livermore did their jobs with special mention to Barry and Harper who were class. Glad to see Murphy out on left only because he wasn't in Holgates way. HRK scored a cracking goal and was a handful during time on pitch, jrod was a nuisance all game and put in good shift topped of with well deserved goal.
Can see why coaches went so defensive in second half after vilest last home result, two of our subs was spot on with Field and Johansen being brought on but I wouldn't have put on Bartley and changed shape.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 17, 2019, 11:19:41 AM
Only a few comments in here tonight that’s it. Imagine the amount of posts if we had lost

Do we have to have stuff like this after every game ?

Its not a competition so no need for one to side to start after a win and the other after a defeat, at the end of the day we all want the bloke to succeed and the whole point of this forum is for people to post their views on stuff
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on February 17, 2019, 11:30:12 AM
I haven't seen the game but a good win obviously.

My one gripe is the balance on the bench again. Only one out and out attacker in Montero - Hoolihan offers a bit of flexibility but not pace. If you happen to lose Murphy or presumably J-Rod or HRK early in the game when it's 0-0, then you'd expect Montero to come on, which leaves no other striker to come on later in the game if you are a goal down and chasing the game (similar to the Brentford game).

We need to be winning games so we need attacking options (at least 2) on the bench - not sure of the injury situation but one of Tulloch, Edwards, Leko should have been on there. Gripe over.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: CL3MO on February 17, 2019, 11:37:40 AM
Fair play to DM - coped well without key personal and got the tactics spot on.

Thought we took our chances and they missed a few key ones but it's about time we faced a team who don't score two from two shots on goal...

Always risky shutting up shop but even Dean Smith (who made a few condescending comments about our second-half tactics after the game) admitted that they struggled to penetrate our defensive shape.

Also, on the basis of the other results, it was in the 'must win' category too. MUST look to press on against QPR and Sheff U now to keep the pressure on.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 17, 2019, 12:01:48 PM
The man is doing a fantastic job - long may he reign
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on February 17, 2019, 12:19:29 PM
I was one of those posters who was in favour of appointing a more experienced coach ahead of Darren last summer, two of  my preferred choices Smith and Potter are both in the Championship at clubs that are 13 points and several places behind us in the league. So Darren wins, right?

Well not entirely I dismissed talk of manager x being appointed and we would be 10 points clear at the top of the league as nonesense well so is the lazy narrative of Moore doing better than Potter and Smith over the course of less than a season at clubs with very differing circumstances.

A surprigsingly insightful poster on Villa talk said of his club "a place where promising managerial careers come to die" and Swansea's travails are well documented ( https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/feb/16/swansea-city-graham-potter-model-club-to-cautionary-tale?CMP=share_btn_tw). These are both clubs with real challenges that might be beyond the one faced by Darren and who knows what would have happened had we swapped coaches you never get to find out.

Ultimately whoever we appointed had a twofold brief. 1. Change the style of play. 2. Keep us competitive and get us into the play-offs. Darren has done this. Without the first condition you might argue that we might be in a better place but again you don't know and none of the teams ahead of us the division play Pulisball.

Darren has done a good job to date in his own right and does not need the validation of other coaches struggles elsewhere nor the unflatering comparisons with Wilder,Bielsa or Farke. Nobody is a fraud here nobody is stealing a living etc... they are just coaches doing the best they can in a competitive league and frankly way too much criticism is heaped on their collective shoulders.

I also had doubts about the appointment of Darren Moore, but I became less concerned when his supporting team was announced. While I agree with the logic of your argument, I don't believe we should underestimate the impact the Graeme Jones & James Shan have had on both the style of play & the tactics we employ.
James Shan, had developed a reputation as a "thinking" coach before GJ arrived, & was allegedly mainly responsible for plotting the tactics of our last few games in the Prem.
IMO it's the team that's taken us to where we are, not just Darren Moore
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on February 17, 2019, 12:36:06 PM
Dean Smith should be critical of himself,his coaching team and players,who between them couldn't find a way to beat us yesterday.
Don't criticise us,you were the home team you lost 0-2.
To a far better set up all round.
Do you know what Dean Smith, your just not cutting it are you you are not good enough,you'll be on your way out soon enough,then where will you go?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on February 17, 2019, 01:55:09 PM
Darren is unbeaten against vile, other more experienced Albion managers couldn't claim that which has to be a great plus for all Albion fans.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on February 17, 2019, 02:21:07 PM
Great result Dave,and in view of what happened to Sheff utd,probably wise to shut shop in the 2nd half,2 minor gripes,Bartley no need to bring him on,disrupted a system that was working well,and he totally lost Abrahams for what was a sitter,and Tulloch on the bench please
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on February 17, 2019, 02:25:52 PM
Great result Dave,and in view of what happened to Sheff utd,probably wise to shut shop in the 2nd half,2 minor gripes,Bartley no need to bring him on,disrupted a system that was working well,and he totally lost Abrahams for what was a sitter,and Tulloch on the bench please


He did yes. If you look at the still frame he steps up and leaves Abraham behind him leaving Hegazi and Gibbs deeper playing Abraham onside. When the cross is delivered Abraham then has space and Hegazi has to come across in a last ditch attempt to reach the ball. Shocking defending by Bartley, he should've been behind Abraham or at least level in front of him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on February 17, 2019, 02:32:40 PM
Hands up all those who were adamant that Dean Smith was going to be our saviour.
After that lesson today, I think we'll take Big Dave over Mr Smith all day long, thank you.

I was.
Darren is learning & gaining more experience game by game. I was total aghast with his decision to park the bus at the start of the 2nd half but ha it worked so fair play.
I don't think its fair to compare managers just by there teams league positions especially when we have the stronger squad.
If we weren't to get automatic promotion but got through by the play off's i would have doubt's again, If we failed to go up i would keep him on has i think it would help him & us build a team made up of young players able to play his brand of footy

So far so good.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 17, 2019, 03:23:38 PM
Do we have to have stuff like this after every game ?

Its not a competition so no need for one to side to start after a win and the other after a defeat, at the end of the day we all want the bloke to succeed and the whole point of this forum is for people to post their views on stuff

Oh Amen to that 👍🏼
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: chipperclark on February 17, 2019, 10:51:51 PM
 ;D And to think we nearly offered Dean Smith Big Daves' job ???? No way.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on February 18, 2019, 09:27:48 AM
Great result Dave,and in view of what happened to Sheff utd,probably wise to shut shop in the 2nd half,2 minor gripes,Bartley no need to bring him on,disrupted a system that was working well,and he totally lost Abrahams for what was a sitter,and Tulloch on the bench please

Bringing a defender on was the correct move but Bartley just gets lost in a three. Would take Tosin everyday in that formation but he loses out due to the loan limit.....no other CDs to choose from.   They obviously train around formations a lot but he just cor do it ....shame.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wigmore on February 18, 2019, 11:57:13 AM
Do we have to have stuff like this after every game ?

Its not a competition so no need for one to side to start after a win and the other after a defeat, at the end of the day we all want the bloke to succeed and the whole point of this forum is for people to post their views on stuff
Sadly, your premise that, "we all want the guy to succeed", is not born out by some of the negative and overly critical analyses of DM's every move.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on February 19, 2019, 09:54:33 PM
Use of the bench has been fantastic now he has his own players
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on February 19, 2019, 09:55:11 PM
Use of the bench has been fantastic now he has his own players
much better recently
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on February 19, 2019, 10:03:54 PM
his subs won us that game , Harper's flick to Livermore who most wanted removed from the pitch.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 20, 2019, 12:02:44 AM
Big Dave is doing a superb job, the Boro game could have totally derailed us, the response has been brilliant.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on February 20, 2019, 12:06:47 AM
Big Dave is doing a superb job, the Boro game could have totally derailed us, the response has been brilliant.

Bang on mate. He has also used his squad better than he did in the early fixture congestion we had. He also utilising his bench better. So constantly improving. Now we have the likes of Phillips and Gayle available he has to find his best team and may have to be ruthless to the likes of Livermore and Rodriguez maybe others. Great 5 days for us after the boro and forest games. If he sorts his home form out we will be laughing
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 20, 2019, 01:07:24 AM
Saturday will be litmus test for him and coaching staff need to be winning at home to have any hope of automatic promotion. I think sheff united will come to us with attacking intent so hopefully that will play into our hands.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on February 20, 2019, 09:08:04 AM
Brilliant result - great work by everyone. I would have taken a draw at the start but we showed we can go on to the end and the win was thoroughly deserved.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on February 20, 2019, 09:27:13 AM
Away from home we look good - hopefully we can finally get some home form going too?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on February 20, 2019, 10:06:21 AM
Hats off to DM and the team.

February looked such a season defining month and so far we have come through it with flying colours. If we can remain within touching distance of the top 2 after the Sheffield and Leeds games, then in my opinion, DM will have a promotion on his CV.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on February 20, 2019, 12:51:23 PM
Think its also worth highlighting that DM's substitutions last night helped us win the game.

Harper and Barry were involved in the winning goal, both also helped us to push on before we got the equaliser.

Just mentioning it as I know DM gets a fair bit of stick for his lack of/poor subs.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on February 23, 2019, 07:39:03 PM
Utterly clueless, yet again he does absolutely nothing to change the game when it obviously wasn't working. I didn't want him the day we appointed him. I got loads of stick after the Brentford game when I said he'd be out of management within 5 years, I still stand by that statement and it's becoming more likely with every passing week. The guy is incapable of reading a football match and, even worse, incapable of learning from his mistakes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 23, 2019, 07:48:42 PM
It happened v Forest and it happened today.  When you give away stupid goals early it gives the opposition something to hang on to.

Are our players too relaxed before they go out?

We seem to lack aggression and intensity early in games.

Barry was so bad he should've been hooked at half time and we should have gone for it.

I am concerned about Gayle and J Rod there seems to be no chemistry.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on February 23, 2019, 07:52:22 PM
Should of took Harper off after 2 minutes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on February 23, 2019, 08:09:31 PM
Schooled by a decent coach tonight, looking like a rabbit caught in head lights.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mini gaardsoe on February 23, 2019, 08:10:18 PM
Do you think if Moore was manager back in the day he’d have played Kevin Phillips wide left? Asking for a friend.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on February 23, 2019, 08:26:49 PM
Do you think if Moore was manager back in the day he’d have played Kevin Phillips wide left? Asking for a friend.


Great post. Too many on here know nothing. Hardly anybody mentions Gayle playing out wide left. He’s a 6 yard box player.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on February 23, 2019, 08:33:08 PM

Great post. Too many on here know nothing. Hardly anybody mentions Gayle playing out wide left. He’s a 6 yard box player.

Watch out, you'll have the Moore fan club on here soon telling you what a tactical masterclass it is. Someone compared him to Salah the other week. Wide attackers don't work when the player being played there is a poacher, and especially when they are 5'9" and the only gameplan is to lump crosses into the box.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on February 23, 2019, 08:34:08 PM
I thought it would be busy on this topic tonight. After the quite after our last 2 games.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 23, 2019, 08:34:47 PM
Watch out, you'll have the Moore fan club on here soon telling you what a tactical masterclass it is. Someone compared him to Salah the other week. Wide attackers don't work when the player being played there is a poacher, and especially when they are 5'9" and the only gameplan is to lump crosses into the box
As I said last week after the win can we cut this sort of stuff out week in week, don't want it on here, petty squabbling better suited to other social media.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 23, 2019, 09:00:53 PM
I'm still fully behind Darren because it IS a big job, but the season will be a failure if we don't get promoted purely due to the way we've gone about it, there is ZERO planning for another season in this league, none, so at this time Darren is very close to failure. He has to arrest the home form, he has to get some guile into midfield and he has to get the best out of the best pure goal scorer in the division.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on February 23, 2019, 09:04:16 PM
The man has no plan B and his interviews offer no insight. I cannot believe that he tells the players to do what they did tonight. They had no idea where to pass and lacked any form of creativity.

We were a shambles tonight. Sheff utd played the perfect game. They got an early goal and then defended as a unit. They completely shut us out. Moore had nothing to fall back on, but blames it on having too many games. Pathetic.

Why was SJ time wasting throughout the match at every goal kick? Who actually tells him the game plan? They need a kick up the rs because it doesn't work.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 23, 2019, 09:13:49 PM
I'm still fully behind Darren because it IS a big job, but the season will be a failure if we don't get promoted purely due to the way we've gone about it, there is ZERO planning for another season in this league, none, so at this time Darren is very close to failure. He has to arrest the home form, he has to get some guile into midfield and he has to get the best out of the best pure goal scorer in the division.

I agree that not getting promoted would be deemed as failure.  Darren Moore deserves to see out the season as a minimum.  I believe we can win at Elland Road, we are good enough.

I just don’t think we are compact enough as a unit without the ball.  We just concede horror goals regularly.  We shouldn’t need to always score 2 or 3 to win a game.  The goal tonight was pathetic from our viewpoint, just no challenge whatsoever.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on February 23, 2019, 09:18:50 PM
In a short space of time 3 organised teams have come to the Hawthorns with a game plan aimed to frustrate and pick us off knowing we will make a mistake at the back.

I do worry about how much influence of Graeme Jones on Moore and who is actually calling the shots .We aren’t streetwise and in this league that worries me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: overseas baggie on February 23, 2019, 09:30:48 PM
The man has no plan B and his interviews offer no insight. I cannot believe that he tells the players to do what they did tonight. They had no idea where to pass and lacked any form of creativity.

We were a shambles tonight. Sheff utd played the perfect game. They got an early goal and then defended as a unit. They completely shut us out. Moore had nothing to fall back on, but blames it on having too many games. Pathetic.

Why was SJ time wasting throughout the match at every goal kick? Who actually tells him the game plan? They need a kick up the rs because it doesn't work.

I don’t take any notice of his interviews.  It’s what he says to the players in the dressing room and on the training ground that counts.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 23, 2019, 09:46:17 PM
Moore has said all season to get out of this legaue you need to score goals. We failed to do that today, I was not at the game so can't comment on why that was, but it is probably along the lines Shef utd came for a point or to nick a goal and we could not break them down.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: letmereadposts on February 23, 2019, 09:53:37 PM
Off the ball I would say we’ve seen some improvements over the season regarding our off the ball play, and that is apparently thanks to Darren Moore who coaches this area.

On the ball not seen that much improvement and it’s supposed to be Graeme Jones in charge of coaching this area.

It’s strange, Darren Moore was very pragmatic in the PL yet now completely up for football from the back. I’m personally pleased with our attempts to at least try this approach after Pulis and Pardew but maybe too much trust in our assistant?

I’ve seen better off the ball management, greater opportunity to youngsters and earlier intervention with substitutions as the season has progressed. However home form is awful and I do not see a consistent approach in our playing style when we have the ball.

We’re good at spreading play keeping possession using our wings and patiently waiting for space we can create yet I do not see an emphasis on this area during games.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 23, 2019, 09:59:47 PM
He has to get the players working as a team.
Today Sheffield showed us up and how to play as a team.
They attacked in force, and when they didn't have the ball, they filed back QUICKLY (which we allowed them to do, because we were ponderously passing the ball around the back).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on February 23, 2019, 10:05:33 PM
I don’t take any notice of his interviews.  It’s what he says to the players in the dressing room and on the training ground that counts.

Which validates my point. If he can't give a basic explanation with regards an overview of the game, without reverting to "the other team were well organised", what can the man do ON the training ground? My answer is that the players don't know what to do and that was abundantly clear tonight. The players were out of ideas as soon as sheff utd scored.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 23, 2019, 10:14:43 PM
Said it last week after a win and saying it again tonight after a defeat, can we cut the pathetic childish squabbling, the pathetic sarcastic posts and start acting like adults, if its difficult then we'll make it easier and give you a break for a spell
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on February 23, 2019, 10:29:38 PM
Moore has said all season to get out of this legaue you need to score goals. We failed to do that today, I was not at the game so can't comment on why that was, but it is probably along the lines Shef utd came for a point or to nick a goal and we could not break them down.
No it wasn't that, they were fresher and sharper than us today and inexplicably we failed to change a tired and malfunctioning midfield 3.
The bench, either the choice of players on it (OK today) or actually using it correctly (was a problem today) seems to be DMs biggest failing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on February 24, 2019, 01:48:27 AM
Some were tipping us for another relegation at the start of the season

Sorry, but who said that? That's absurd.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie38 on February 24, 2019, 02:05:44 AM
I don't think you can get away with being critical of Moore for some stupid reason. The bloke seems to be immune from stick. I personally think he is out of his depth. I gave him credit over the last two games but last night he got it so wrong. Its been apparent for months that the tactics we deploy at home don't work. For me automatic is now gone. If he doesn't get us promoted with the squad we have he and his coaching staff should be sacked
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on February 24, 2019, 02:39:05 AM
Thought it showed that Barry will struggle to do 3 games in a week, it was apparent in the first 30 minutes how lethargic he looked.
Don't know if Murphy was injured but I'd have played him and Phillips out wide with Gayle in the centre and Bring Rodriguez on later who also looked a bit jaded.
should we have changed a winning side?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on February 24, 2019, 03:30:38 AM
I've given up on automatics, the top 3 shows that the ability of the head coach is much more important than the quality of the players in this division. Moore still hasn't got this team to gel, we very rarely look good in games, a lot of the time the players look uncomfortable and unsure of the system they are playing. Slow high-risk passing between the back 5, before a hospital pass into the midfield or a floated cross into the box appears to be all we've got going forward after 34 games of working on it. Defensively, I don't see anything positive. The midfield never get back, we don't stop crosses coming in, we don't press as a team, there's always yards of space. We just seem to let the opposition have the ball until they finish their attack. Since Barnes was recalled, it hasn't even been that enjoyable to watch.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on February 24, 2019, 07:03:50 AM
Looking like we are creeping closer and closer to the crapshoot that is the playoffs.

If we win it then great. If we dont then I feel we should stick with Moore into the next season. If we then are not in the top 6 come Christmas, would then prefer to see a head coach change and to roll the dice in the January transfer window.
...or maybe just wait to see how this season pans out? Too early as a fan to be thinking this way. 12 games to go. Let those who are paid to worry about the distant future worry. The Leeds game is enough worry for me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 24, 2019, 07:48:12 AM
I've given up on automatics, the top 3 shows that the ability of the head coach is much more important than the quality of the players in this division. Moore still hasn't got this team to gel, we very rarely look good in games, a lot of the time the players look uncomfortable and unsure of the system they are playing. Slow high-risk passing between the back 5, before a hospital pass into the midfield or a floated cross into the box appears to be all we've got going forward after 34 games of working on it. Defensively, I don't see anything positive. The midfield never get back, we don't stop crosses coming in, we don't press as a team, there's always yards of space. We just seem to let the opposition have the ball until they finish their attack. Since Barnes was recalled, it hasn't even been that enjoyable to watch.


That’s pretty much how I feel.  But, I won’t give up on automatic until Leeds match is done.  Sheffield Utd looked fantastically well drilled and coached.  They do not have a squad, their reserves lost at home to Barnet.  Wilder knows what he wants each and every game. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: overseas baggie on February 24, 2019, 07:53:09 AM
Thought it showed that Barry will struggle to do 3 games in a week, it was apparent in the first 30 minutes how lethargic he looked.
Don't know if Murphy was injured but I'd have played him and Phillips out wide with Gayle in the centre and Bring Rodriguez on later who also looked a bit jaded.
should we have changed a winning side?

Murphy picked up a knock at the end of the QPR game
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on February 24, 2019, 08:12:15 AM
I've given up on automatics, the top 3 shows that the ability of the head coach is much more important than the quality of the players in this division. Moore still hasn't got this team to gel, we very rarely look good in games, a lot of the time the players look uncomfortable and unsure of the system they are playing. Slow high-risk passing between the back 5, before a hospital pass into the midfield or a floated cross into the box appears to be all we've got going forward after 34 games of working on it. Defensively, I don't see anything positive. The midfield never get back, we don't stop crosses coming in, we don't press as a team, there's always yards of space. We just seem to let the opposition have the ball until they finish their attack. Since Barnes was recalled, it hasn't even been that enjoyable to watch.

good summary that
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 24, 2019, 08:23:47 AM
Reports that Darren is thinking about changing the formation for home games!, well about time too. Can we also stop this fixation with playing out from the back. Our goalkeeper is getting flak from our "supporters" because he is not allowed to vary from this bloody nonsensical practice.
As supporters we had better get used to the idea that our management is not strong enough, or savvy enough to see us over the line, and by the way, I do not want to see our manager staying on the pitch to shake the hand of every one of the opposition, I want him in the dressing room telling our players that their performance is unacceptable.
I do not want him telling me that the players gave their all after that appalling performance yesterday.
I was at QPR on Tuesday and saw amazing togetherness at the end of the game.
We are once again at a point where the players do not believe in the system being forced upon them (home games) and like in recent seasons it is going to end in disappointment.   
The vast majority of supporters only see home games, and what they see is not good, and by the way away performances are often not good either despite the results.
For me the "love-in" is definitely over
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggies_24 on February 24, 2019, 09:05:58 AM
One big criticism I have of the coaching staff is they persist with things that aren’t working for too long. The 3 at the back experiment went on for 3 games too long, playing the 4-3-3 at home has gone on for 3 games too long also. I’m not advocating we completely change formation every 7-8 games however playing the same formation with no little tweaks  for 4-5 games means there’s enough tape on video for teams to analyse how we play and to pick weaknesses in the formation, it’s no coincidence Wednesday, Boro, Forrest & Sheffield United have all played a similar style of football at the Hawthorns and have come away with a result.

The formation needs changing we need Gayle & Rodriguez up top Gayle is utterly wasted out wide, I don’t know what Hoolahan needs to do to get a game either every time he’s played in the cup he’s been one of our better players and gets in those spaces between the defence & midfield that none of our current midfield seem able to get into.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on February 24, 2019, 09:15:57 AM
From what I heard on ts2 they seemed to be swarming us,closing down quickly.
Apart from the first and last ten minutes they won the match fair and square.
Could their extra 3 days of not playing when we won at QPR have been the difference?
Disappointing result today but still a lot of points to pickup and really only Leeds to sort out then games get a little easier in the run in.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 24, 2019, 09:25:27 AM
From what I heard on ts2 they seemed to be swarming us,closing down quickly.
Apart from the first and last ten minutes they won the match fair and square.
Could their extra 3 days of not playing when we won at QPR have been the difference?
Disappointing result today but still a lot of points to pickup and really only Leeds to sort out then games get a little easier in the run in.
Brentford away
Bristol City away
Reading away
Derby away
Blues Home
None of those easy
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on February 24, 2019, 09:33:43 AM
Johnstone must be trusted to play it long more often, he is so obviously being told to virtually never to do that, he plays daft suicide passes, and it just makes it so easy for a well drilled side like Sheff U.  We have to keep 5 players on our own half, 3 of them around the box, so when we do get it forward we are faffing around ten/fifteen yards outside their box instead of in it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on February 24, 2019, 09:34:16 AM
Wilder and Sheffield United are an interesting comparison. United spent 6 seasons in League One they would have one of the bigger clubs in the League and always among the pre season favourites for promotion. They ran through 5 managers during that time sacking each one when they "failed" to get promotion although a very poor start to a season saw David Weir fired after just 13 games.

Wilder took over and got promotion at the first time of asking which was fortunate for him because on previous form they probably wouldn't have given him a second chance. Last season he guided them to a respectable 10th place having got to Christmas in the play-off positions. This season has seen them improve and it now seems quite likely they will be in the promotion race down the home straight and are very likely to finish in the top 6.

He has done this with a fairly modest squad, (imagine if we had signed Nadine,McGoldrick or Washngton) but it is a squad which he has put together to play a certain way. He has had the benefit of working with some of the players for the better part of 3 seasons. It is also a squad and a club that has got used to being relatively sucessful and is now probably seen as such by the fans.

Moore is in roughly the same position Wilder was in his first season at United.Our squad has been cobbled together most of it under different managers to play a completely different style of football. The feeling around the club is one of entitlement and disappointment. On the one hand we should be doing better with the squad we have got but equally we are probaly not doing quite as well as we might because of the flaws that current squad has and the legacy of too many years of struggling to stay in the Premier League.

Stoke are in the same boat but it is credit to Moore that he has stopped the rot at least to a degree with less of a drop off in league position. Ultimately we need to stick with Moore if this season turns out to be a bust. Someone described the play-offs as a rubbish shoot it is but it is a rubbish shoot for all of the teams in it not just us.

Before anyone accuses of me being overly gentle on Moore because of sentiment due to his long term association with the club remember I would have appointed a more experienced coach. I would however be arguing to stick with whoever the coach was unless things were dire (i.e. relegation struggle) or worse still whoever we appointed turned out to be a Pulis clone.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on February 24, 2019, 09:47:17 AM
Wilder and Sheffield United are an interesting comparison. United spent 6 seasons in League One they would have one of the bigger clubs in the League and always among the pre season favourites for promotion. They ran through 5 managers during that time sacking each one when they "failed" to get promotion although a very poor start to a season saw David Weir fired after just 13 games.

Wilder took over and got promotion at the first time of asking which was fortunate for him because on previous form they probably wouldn't have given him a second chance. Last season he guided them to a respectable 10th place having got to Christmas in the play-off positions. This season has seen them improve and it now seems quite likely they will be in the promotion race down the home straight and are very likely to finish in the top 6.

He has done this with a fairly modest squad, (imagine if we had signed Nadine,McGoldrick or Washngton) but it is a squad which he has put together to play a certain way. He has had the benefit of working with some of the players for the better part of 3 seasons. It is also a squad and a club that has got used to being relatively sucessful and is now probably seen as such by the fans.

Moore is in roughly the same position Wilder was in his first season at United.Our squad has been cobbled together most of it under different managers to play a completely different style of football. The feeling around the club is one of entitlement and disappointment. On the one hand we should be doing better with the squad we have got but equally we are probaly not doing quite as well as we might because of the flaws that current squad has and the legacy of too many years of struggling to stay in the Premier League.

Stoke are in the same boat but it is credit to Moore that he has stopped the rot at least to a degree with less of a drop off in league position. Ultimately we need to stick with Moore if this season turns out to be a bust. Someone described the play-offs as a rubbish shoot it is but it is a rubbish shoot for all of the teams in it not just us.

Before anyone accuses of me being overly gentle on Moore because of sentiment due to his long term association with the club remember I would have appointed a more experienced coach. I would however be arguing to stick with whoever the coach was unless things were dire (i.e. relegation struggle) or worse still whoever we appointed turned out to be a Pulis clone.

This X about a fuggin million. Saved my fingers.   Top post etc.    Don't get me wrong I'm fuggin inebriated this morning, more than I have been for some time but I want to give this management team TIME.  Norwich gave their manager time, Sheff Utd gave their manager time, Bristol City etc. At least I am angry today..... Last year I just stopped caring.  That's the difference Darren Moore is making.   

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 24, 2019, 09:52:06 AM
Wilder and Sheffield United are an interesting comparison. United spent 6 seasons in League One they would have one of the bigger clubs in the League and always among the pre season favourites for promotion. They ran through 5 managers during that time sacking each one when they "failed" to get promotion although a very poor start to a season saw David Weir fired after just 13 games.

Wilder took over and got promotion at the first time of asking which was fortunate for him because on previous form they probably wouldn't have given him a second chance. Last season he guided them to a respectable 10th place having got to Christmas in the play-off positions. This season has seen them improve and it now seems quite likely they will be in the promotion race down the home straight and are very likely to finish in the top 6.

He has done this with a fairly modest squad, (imagine if we had signed Nadine,McGoldrick or Washngton) but it is a squad which he has put together to play a certain way. He has had the benefit of working with some of the players for the better part of 3 seasons. It is also a squad and a club that has got used to being relatively sucessful and is now probably seen as such by the fans.

Moore is in roughly the same position Wilder was in his first season at United.Our squad has been cobbled together most of it under different managers to play a completely different style of football. The feeling around the club is one of entitlement and disappointment. On the one hand we should be doing better with the squad we have got but equally we are probaly not doing quite as well as we might because of the flaws that current squad has and the legacy of too many years of struggling to stay in the Premier League.

Stoke are in the same boat but it is credit to Moore that he has stopped the rot at least to a degree with less of a drop off in league position. Ultimately we need to stick with Moore if this season turns out to be a bust. Someone described the play-offs as a rubbish shoot it is but it is a rubbish shoot for all of the teams in it not just us.

Before anyone accuses of me being overly gentle on Moore because of sentiment due to his long term association with the club remember I would have appointed a more experienced coach. I would however be arguing to stick with whoever the coach was unless things were dire (i.e. relegation struggle) or worse still whoever we appointed turned out to be a Pulis clone.


I do like this very sensible and reasoned post.

With the Sheffield Utd comparison in League One I can’t relate to their quality of squad at that particular time.

What I do know is that teams are coming to the Hawthorns and doing a job on us with a more limited team.  Is it just an unlucky streak for us or is there something more stark within this.

With all 8 defeats I have yet to see a team play us off the park and our fans having to bow to their superiority.  Even Derby it was just a clinical show from them having had a gift from J Rod for the opener.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BRIAN on February 24, 2019, 09:58:34 AM
Players know if they have performed below the accepted level so there is no point in a manager going straight in and yelling at them. I heard someone from Burnley saying Dyche does not go into the dressing room straight after the game. Poor old Moore is getting some unwanted stick from some unimaginative people. LAY OFF.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on February 24, 2019, 10:28:07 AM
A minute an a half of injury time left and we win a free kick just inside uor half. I'm screaming at SJ to get the ball into the box. He is dithering, but then plays a 5 yard square ball. I despair. There comes a point with virtually the last kick where we needed it in their box. But no, we had to continue with tippy tappy. I love the fact we are trying to play football, but for gods sack, theres a time and a place for it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 24, 2019, 10:35:05 AM
Players know if they have performed below the accepted level so there is no point in a manager going straight in and yelling at them. I heard someone from Burnley saying Dyche does not go into the dressing room straight after the game. Poor old Moore is getting some unwanted stick from some unimaginative people. LAY OFF.
I watch them every week mate imagination has nothing to do with it, and nobody mentioned YELLING
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: barnestormer on February 24, 2019, 11:58:04 AM
Still think Jones is yanking Moore's chain and not as it should be,it's fairly obvious .just look at the full time team talk v Brighton before extra time and looked the same to me from the east stand yesterday
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 24, 2019, 11:58:53 AM
Still think Jones is yanking Moore's chain and not as it should be,it's fairly obvious .just look at the full time team talk v Brighton before extra time and looked the same to me from the east stand yesterday
And villa away, qpr away etc etc
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: barnestormer on February 24, 2019, 12:55:40 PM
And villa away, qpr away etc etc
Doesn't really matter as regards the positive results does it? It matters that we keep repeating the same mistakes and have no plan B.i stand by my statement of who's in the accendency of who's yanking who's chain
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on February 24, 2019, 01:33:48 PM
I am not Daves biggest fan but he did put out the strongest starting line uptoday,its really not his fault if Holgate poorly crosses at least 10 times,and yes I am still a Holgate fan.
Dear Dave,to break teams down at home you always have to go wide,ALWAYS to get behind there fullbacks,why is it we try and walk into through the middle,with Holgate and Gibbs they should be instructed to overlap ,they both have the ability to do this,final ball is another thing though,yesterday Gibbs hardly attacked his flank,and at least try Gayle down the middle at home before the season finishes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Westie on February 24, 2019, 05:47:31 PM
Unbelievable that some ‘fans’ want Big Dave replaced! We have a bloke at the helm who is Albion through and through, and a really good bloke. Alright, that doesn’t guarantee good football but look at his record, it isn’t that bad. Ask yourselves who you would rather have. Many wanted Smith, he’s doing really well. Gary Rowett, another success story! We could get a really experienced manager, someone like Alan Pardew; win would inevitably follow win.

Just be careful what you wish for. This club will not prosper again until we are rid of our esteemed owner.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Sted1990 on February 24, 2019, 07:42:57 PM
He’s doing a very good job, we’re set for the play offs at worse.
Do I always like his subs? No.
Is he the boss? Yes so I respect his decisions.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lindenbaggie on February 24, 2019, 09:32:20 PM
Yes, we all get frustrated at games like that, but to be honest I expected a difficult game from them as they have a decent record at the Hawthorns. In addition to that, it's not the first or last time we win away and to lose at home in the next match, as it happens elsewhere as well.

As far as Moore is concerned, yes he makes mistakes, but even so, he's only in his first year, and his percentages are over 50, something not achieved I believe since the Ardiles era. We shouldn't forget he's been promoted four times to the Premieship as a player, so knows full well what the pressures are for the staff and players. Far too early to write this guy off.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on February 25, 2019, 04:38:10 AM
Yes, we all get frustrated at games like that, but to be honest I expected a difficult game from them as they have a decent record at the Hawthorns.

They also had a longer rest period between games. A lot of people mock and say professional footballers should be able to play every day of the week etc but I think the amount of time between games has a large affect on performance levels. I don't think it's any co-incidence that we've had some of our worst performances when we've played a team that has had extra rest days - Sheff United, Villa at home. Sometimes you can get away with it if you're playing largely inferior opposition but in high intensity games against decent sides it makes a difference.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 25, 2019, 08:38:14 AM
Pressure is massively on the Leeds game now. Win that and we remain in contention, but lose it and we could end the weekend 9 points off the top of the league, 7 off the automatics with games fast running out. Failure to get automatic promotion this season is a failure in my eyes, but he could redeem himself through the play offs as a bare minimum. The squad will get no better next season, and if there is an inability to get promoted with this side, I dread to think how it would go next season with far worse players.

He may be a good bloke, and potentially Albion through and through, as I have seen mentioned on here recently, but we are not in the business of employing people for their personality, we need results and this season we needed promotion. Player for player, the first XI we stick on the park every week, for this level, is superior to every other side, it just cannot be denied, a defence of Johnstone, Holgate, Dawson, Hegazi and Gibbs in the Championship? That should be achieving clean sheets most weeks, but it isn't, so you have to delve a bit deeper for me than looking at a nice guy who has galvanised the club and start asking why it isn't.

 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on February 25, 2019, 10:55:22 PM
Pressure is massively on the Leeds game now. Win that and we remain in contention, but lose it and we could end the weekend 9 points off the top of the league, 7 off the automatics with games fast running out. Failure to get automatic promotion this season is a failure in my eyes, but he could redeem himself through the play offs as a bare minimum. The squad will get no better next season, and if there is an inability to get promoted with this side, I dread to think how it would go next season with far worse players.

He may be a good bloke, and potentially Albion through and through, as I have seen mentioned on here recently, but we are not in the business of employing people for their personality, we need results and this season we needed promotion. Player for player, the first XI we stick on the park every week, for this level, is superior to every other side, it just cannot be denied, a defence of Johnstone, Holgate, Dawson, Hegazi and Gibbs in the Championship? That should be achieving clean sheets most weeks, but it isn't, so you have to delve a bit deeper for me than looking at a nice guy who has galvanised the club and start asking why it isn't.
Of course it can be denied. It's just your opinion, not a fact. It is also deluded, but that's just my opinion. Why should our defence be keeping clean sheets most weeks? Other teams have good players as well you know and we are an attacking team so inevitably we will concede goals. Anyway that defence has only played half a dozen full games together, and we kept clean sheets in half of them, which is at least as good as any other back 5 in the division.
This club was toxic from top to tail when Darren Moore took over. In one short year he has restored a lot of pride in the club, changed the style of play hugely for the better in entertainment terms, and dramatically improved morale for players and fans alike.
It's his first managerial job, he has had to recruit on a shoestring, inherited a squad that had just lost a couple of key players and whose morale was rock bottom, and a couple of those who stayed didn't want to be at the club anyway. But hey ho, apparently we should be walking the division. The guy has done remarkably in the circumstances.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: graka on February 25, 2019, 11:05:48 PM
Pressure is massively on the Leeds game now. Win that and we remain in contention, but lose it and we could end the weekend 9 points off the top of the league, 7 off the automatics with games fast running out. Failure to get automatic promotion this season is a failure in my eyes, but he could redeem himself through the play offs as a bare minimum. The squad will get no better next season, and if there is an inability to get promoted with this side, I dread to think how it would go next season with far worse players.

He may be a good bloke, and potentially Albion through and through, as I have seen mentioned on here recently, but we are not in the business of employing people for their personality, we need results and this season we needed promotion. Player for player, the first XI we stick on the park every week, for this level, is superior to every other side, it just cannot be denied, a defence of Johnstone, Holgate, Dawson, Hegazi and Gibbs in the Championship? That should be achieving clean sheets most weeks, but it isn't, so you have to delve a bit deeper for me than looking at a nice guy who has galvanised the club and start asking why it isn't.

Agree with most of this. I said to my brother prior to kick off that's a strong starting eleven.
However we are still shoehorning people into the team rather than playing people in there best position.
After we lost I said to my brother how many of the Sheffield United players would you have swapped for ours before kick off? None.
We were out thought and out coached.
Anything less than top 2 with this squad shows limitations or stubbornness from our head coach and his assistant and failure for me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on February 26, 2019, 09:43:40 AM
Pressure is massively on the Leeds game now. Win that and we remain in contention, but lose it and we could end the weekend 9 points off the top of the league, 7 off the automatics with games fast running out. Failure to get automatic promotion this season is a failure in my eyes, but he could redeem himself through the play offs as a bare minimum. The squad will get no better next season, and if there is an inability to get promoted with this side, I dread to think how it would go next season with far worse players.

He may be a good bloke, and potentially Albion through and through, as I have seen mentioned on here recently, but we are not in the business of employing people for their personality, we need results and this season we needed promotion. Player for player, the first XI we stick on the park every week, for this level, is superior to every other side, it just cannot be denied, a defence of Johnstone, Holgate, Dawson, Hegazi and Gibbs in the Championship? That should be achieving clean sheets most weeks, but it isn't, so you have to delve a bit deeper for me than looking at a nice guy who has galvanised the club and start asking why it isn't.

Fantastic post. agree with everything. i Love DM when he was a player and although i dont really rate him as a manager it dont matter who is in charge.

Promotion this season is a MUST. with the squad we have there should be no excuses.

top two or win the play offs. if we fail then unfortunately he has to go. i think numerous managers of weaker clubs could have us 5-6 points clear at the top at the moment. dont forget, it took how long for him to realise 3 at the back wasnt working and i said then to my dad that could cost us.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on February 26, 2019, 11:37:21 AM


top two or win the play offs. if we fail then unfortunately he has to go. i think numerous managers of weaker clubs could have us 5-6 points clear at the top at the moment. dont forget, it took how long for him to realise 3 at the back wasnt working and i said then to my dad that could cost us.

You don't think CB's blunder against Middlesborough, which gifted them three points or the blunder that led to Norwich equalising losing us 2 points (both times playing with a flat back 4) cost us then?
We were scoring goals with 3 at the back, now we're not. 3 at the back was working in terms of getting points, personally, I'd go back to it, especially at home.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 26, 2019, 11:44:06 AM
You don't think CB's blunder against Middlesborough, which gifted them three points or the blunder that led to Norwich equalising losing us 2 points (both times playing with a flat back 4) cost us then?
We were scoring goals with 3 at the back, now we're not. 3 at the back was working in terms of getting points, personally, I'd go back to it, especially at home.

Our blunders are coming from the insistence of playing around with the ball in ridiculous areas which is ultimately coming from the management team. Doesn't matter if you are 10 at the back, if you keep playing in that way it will continue to cost us goals.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wigmore on February 26, 2019, 02:52:34 PM
Fantastic post. agree with everything. i Love DM when he was a player and although i dont really rate him as a manager it dont matter who is in charge.

Promotion this season is a MUST. with the squad we have there should be no excuses.

top two or win the play offs. if we fail then unfortunately he has to go. i think numerous managers of weaker clubs could have us 5-6 points clear at the top at the moment. dont forget, it took how long for him to realise 3 at the back wasnt working and i said then to my dad that could cost us.
Any chance you could list just a few of these managers who would guide us to the promised land so easily? ::)
Given DM's lack of experience, and the parlous state of the club after the work of two supposedly expert coaches, I applaud his efforts.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on February 26, 2019, 03:13:28 PM
Any chance you could list just a few of these managers who would guide us to the promised land so easily? ::)
Given DM's lack of experience, and the parlous state of the club after the work of two supposedly expert coaches, I applaud his efforts.

Are you being serious?
Look at the job Lee Johnson is doing at Bristol, or even Garry Monk at Blues, Chris Wilder at Sheffield. 3 Managers there on shoe string budgets who are massively over achieving. as ive said, i love moore as an ex player but as a manager he is out of his depth. His in game management is extremely poor, we are winning games at home to Norwich & Boro and they make attacking changes and he stands there and does nothing?! He is in charge of a team who has the best striker in the league in Dwight Gayle but consistently plays him out wide left?

Someone mentioned CB's error that cost us but again that was because he was put on the pitch when he never should of by DM !!!

We play Norwich at home, winning the game and slowly they are coming back into the game and pushing us back, they make a double substitution and within minutes are level. Our players were out on their feet and our first change was the 85th minute.

We are still in the race and if we get a result Friday which we have to then we have put the pressure back on.

in summary, a decent manager should be getting a squad of Albions ability out of this division. I hope for DM and our future that he is able to achieve that but i am not confident.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BigFrank20 on February 26, 2019, 03:22:01 PM
Look at the job Lee Johnson is doing at Bristol, or even Garry Monk at Blues, Chris Wilder at Sheffield. 3 Managers there on shoe string budgets who are massively over achieving.
Good picks but all currently working at clubs and I suspect the question was more meant to ask who is there out there and out of work who could do a better job
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on February 26, 2019, 03:31:37 PM
Good picks but all currently working at clubs and I suspect the question was more meant to ask who is there out there and out of work who could do a better job

Apologies if i misunderstood the question. Out of work and available, no one who i think is good enough but back in the summer we had a huge decision to make and could have got a better manager in my opinion and at the time didn't want DM but have backed him since and until mission is failed then i still will.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on February 26, 2019, 03:33:00 PM
i really hope DM takes us up and if he does i will hold my hands up, but i am just not confident in his ability as a manager. he picks the right team majority of the time but its his in-game management that baffles me.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 26, 2019, 03:49:03 PM
Are you being serious?
Look at the job Lee Johnson is doing at Bristol, or even Garry Monk at Blues, Chris Wilder at Sheffield. 3 Managers there on shoe string budgets who are massively over achieving. as ive said, i love moore as an ex player but as a manager he is out of his depth. His in game management is extremely poor, we are winning games at home to Norwich & Boro and they make attacking changes and he stands there and does nothing?! He is in charge of a team who has the best striker in the league in Dwight Gayle but consistently plays him out wide left?

Someone mentioned CB's error that cost us but again that was because he was put on the pitch when he never should of by DM !!!

We play Norwich at home, winning the game and slowly they are coming back into the game and pushing us back, they make a double substitution and within minutes are level. Our players were out on their feet and our first change was the 85th minute.

We are still in the race and if we get a result Friday which we have to then we have put the pressure back on.

in summary, a decent manager should be getting a squad of Albions ability out of this division. I hope for DM and our future that he is able to achieve that but i am not confident.
Lee Johnson is in his 3rd year at Bristol City and has been allowed time to build his team.
Chris Wilder is also into his 3rd year and has done tremendously well at Sheff utd but, again has been given time to build.

Perhaps, instead of using these 2 as a stick to beat Moore with, we should use them as a benchmark of what can be achieved when a manager is given time.

Neither can match his overall win % by the way, despite all of their games being played in the Championship and below, and him being the only one with Premier League experience.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on February 26, 2019, 04:30:52 PM
i really hope DM takes us up and if he does i will hold my hands up, but i am just not confident in his ability as a manager. he picks the right team majority of the time but its his in-game management that baffles me.
Maybe the problem is we are doing well enough for him to not really have to have a good look at what goes wrong every third or fourth game, and to be fair the next game is on us too quickly for any long navel gazing - I think he is on a pretty steep learning curve though, and if we don't go up I hope we give him at least a fair crack at it next year to see how it goes, see if he can add a bit of tactical flexibility and better use of subs during the game to add to his enthusiasm and integrity
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on February 27, 2019, 01:55:14 AM
Lee Johnson is in his 3rd year at Bristol City and has been allowed time to build his team.
Chris Wilder is also into his 3rd year and has done tremendously well at Sheff utd but, again has been given time to build.

Perhaps, instead of using these 2 as a stick to beat Moore with, we should use them as a benchmark of what can be achieved when a manager is given time.

Neither can match his overall win % by the way, despite all of their games being played in the Championship and below, and him being the only one with Premier League experience.

Spot on, could not have put it better myself.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Sted1990 on February 27, 2019, 07:41:54 AM
Spot on, could not have put it better myself.

Finally some sense
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on February 27, 2019, 08:46:39 AM
Lee Johnson is in his 3rd year at Bristol City and has been allowed time to build his team.
Chris Wilder is also into his 3rd year and has done tremendously well at Sheff utd but, again has been given time to build.

Perhaps, instead of using these 2 as a stick to beat Moore with, we should use them as a benchmark of what can be achieved when a manager is given time.

Neither can match his overall win % by the way, despite all of their games being played in the Championship and below, and him being the only one with Premier League experience.

Premier League Experience? he managed the last few games as interim manager. You are right in Johnson and Wilder being allowed to build.

unfortunately though, i dont think we are in a position to allow Moore to build in the championship. we are in a position where we need immediate success to get back up. If we get promoted, great, Moore can build his own side in trying to establish us in there but We are only going to get weaker each season we fail to get back into the PL and as i have said, with the quality of the squad we have and to retain those players, we have to be playing premier league football next season. its really as simple as that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on February 27, 2019, 08:49:20 AM
Lee Johnson is in his 3rd year at Bristol City and has been allowed time to build his team.
Chris Wilder is also into his 3rd year and has done tremendously well at Sheff utd but, again has been given time to build.

Perhaps, instead of using these 2 as a stick to beat Moore with, we should use them as a benchmark of what can be achieved when a manager is given time.

Neither can match his overall win % by the way, despite all of their games being played in the Championship and below, and him being the only one with Premier League experience.

Also, Chris Wilder has a 53.2% win percentage.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on February 27, 2019, 09:10:26 AM
Also, Chris Wilder has a 53.2% win percentage.

Only at Sheff Utd. Wilder's career win percentage is 44.4%. He has been in management for something like 16/17 years.

 Darren Moore's win percentage is based on his entire career of less than a year.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 27, 2019, 11:48:50 AM
Premier League Experience? he managed the last few games as interim manager. You are right in Johnson and Wilder being allowed to build.

unfortunately though, i dont think we are in a position to allow Moore to build in the championship. we are in a position where we need immediate success to get back up. If we get promoted, great, Moore can build his own side in trying to establish us in there but We are only going to get weaker each season we fail to get back into the PL and as i have said, with the quality of the squad we have and to retain those players, we have to be playing premier league football next season. its really as simple as that.
It's more Prem experience than either of them, plus both of them have games in lower leagues within their figures.

Bristol City have also lost 2 in a row now. Johnson OUT ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 27, 2019, 12:04:59 PM
It's more Prem experience than either of them, plus both of them have games in lower leagues within their figures.

Bristol City have also lost 2 in a row now. Johnson OUT ;)

He only ever lost one game in the premier league as well, and won manager of the month  ;D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on February 27, 2019, 12:30:06 PM
I really wanted DM to get the job as i thought he deserved the chance after the end of last season but i sadly think i am wrong. It's not hard to motivate people if they repsect you and half of their salary is on the line.  Top bloke just needs more experience and this season is too important to us to mess up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on February 27, 2019, 12:51:45 PM
It's more Prem experience than either of them, plus both of them have games in lower leagues within their figures.

Bristol City have also lost 2 in a row now. Johnson OUT ;)

Suggesting it’s easier to win in lower divisions is far too simplistic
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on February 27, 2019, 01:05:04 PM
I really wanted DM to get the job as i thought he deserved the chance after the end of last season but i sadly think i am wrong. It's not hard to motivate people if they repsect you and half of their salary is on the line.  Top bloke just needs more experience and this season is too important to us to mess up.

Finally some sense
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on February 27, 2019, 01:35:13 PM
Finally some sense

How is this sense, its a pointless comment.  If this season is too imortant to.mess up does that mean you Ythink he should be replaced NOW? and with who?  Big Sam???  A top lower league manager (please see Stoke).    Ask Rafa to pop by and bring Sol back with him.........or did i misunderstand the original post?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 27, 2019, 01:42:14 PM
Suggesting it’s easier to win in lower divisions is far too simplistic
It's far more simple than the Premier league, yet it's ok to dismiss Moore's record there?

Plus,isn't the general consensus with Moore's detractors, that he should be tearing up this "lower" league with this squad?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Backofthenet on February 27, 2019, 01:45:30 PM
I'm struggling with the concept of us going up as the reason for not losing some of our squad. Lets be fair most of our squad was not good enough for the PL so we are deluding ourselves if we think it will be any different.
A Norwich supporter on a phone in on Saturday summed it all up for me when he said that he would be delighted to win the league, take the trophy and then tell the authorities they want to stay in the Championship. He rightly said that they will struggle regardless of how much they spend and it will be a lot less enjoyable.
At the start of the season we ran a poll to see where we thought we would end up and loads thought mid table. That being the case we are over performing. We would struggle in the Premier League and we are fooling ourselves if we think otherwise - rebuild or not. Top players do not want to sign for clubs who are likely to be facing a relegation battle. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on February 27, 2019, 02:04:14 PM
I'm struggling with the concept of us going up as the reason for not losing some of our squad. Lets be fair most of our squad was not good enough for the PL so we are deluding ourselves if we think it will be any different.
A Norwich supporter on a phone in on Saturday summed it all up for me when he said that he would be delighted to win the league, take the trophy and then tell the authorities they want to stay in the Championship. He rightly said that they will struggle regardless of how much they spend and it will be a lot less enjoyable.
At the start of the season we ran a poll to see where we thought we would end up and loads thought mid table. That being the case we are over performing. We would struggle in the Premier League and we are fooling ourselves if we think otherwise - rebuild or not. Top players do not want to sign for clubs who are likely to be facing a relegation battle.

That's it for me as well.
Regardless of what division we are playing in next season we will have a massive overhaul of the squad.
6 loanees will go back.
The likes of Dawson/Phillips/Hegazi/Livermore/Gibbs/JRod would they fancy another season of Championship football or a relegation struggle in the Premiership?
Barry, Morrisson, Brunty all past it IMO.
Hoolihan and Mears will go  (hopefully)
Harper not signed a new deal yet.
That leaves the kids, Johnstone, Calamity Kyle and HRK.
Not inspiring is it?



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on February 27, 2019, 02:19:26 PM
How is this sense, its a pointless comment.  If this season is too imortant to.mess up does that mean you Ythink he should be replaced NOW? and with who?  Big Sam???  A top lower league manager (please see Stoke).    Ask Rafa to pop by and bring Sol back with him.........or did i misunderstand the original post?

You cant replace him now because we are still in contention to be in the top two and look quite confident of play offs as a minimum.

dont understand the sarcasm to be fair or what you're trying to point out.

but its not very difficult, we have to get promoted this year to keep majority of our squad. I believe the players who got us relegated were good enough to stay in that division, dont forget the summer before so many on here were saying its the strongest ever top flight squad we have had !! we got relegated by poor management and sticking with a complete dinosaur for too long when a lot of players were not playing for him, then had a manager come in on the cheap who did not have a clue.

we fail to go up this season, then we make none of the loan signings permanent, we lose other assets like Gibbs, Dawson, Hegazi etc etc and it then becomes even more difficult to gain promotion, the parachute money reduces further and each season it becomes less likely to get back into the premier league (look at villa).

that is why it is absolutely imperative to get back into the premier league for next season.

if we do not, then the question has to be asked, was the squad good enough? yes.
was the manager backed? yes.
did the manager fail? yes.

unfortunately then if that does happen then in my oppinion, we then have a huge re-building job and have to appoint an experienced manager over a 4-5 year project.

as i have said before, a decent manager should be getting Albion out of this division with the resources available to use this season. if Moore achieves that, brilliant, i will be proud of the club and what DM has achieved in his first full season as manager and he should be backed to try and build his own squad.

but failure is not an option this season and if we do fail then unfortunately he must be made accountable for it. a lot on here dont seem to like that but its true.

i will continue to do what i have all season, remain positive and back my team every single home and away game and hopefully we achieve our aim.

COYB.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on February 27, 2019, 02:33:23 PM
You cant replace him now because we are still in contention to be in the top two and look quite confident of play offs as a minimum.

dont understand the sarcasm to be fair or what you're trying to point out.

but its not very difficult, we have to get promoted this year to keep majority of our squad. I believe the players who got us relegated were good enough to stay in that division, dont forget the summer before so many on here were saying its the strongest ever top flight squad we have had !! we got relegated by poor management and sticking with a complete dinosaur for too long when a lot of players were not playing for him, then had a manager come in on the cheap who did not have a clue.

we fail to go up this season, then we make none of the loan signings permanent, we lose other assets like Gibbs, Dawson, Hegazi etc etc and it then becomes even more difficult to gain promotion, the parachute money reduces further and each season it becomes less likely to get back into the premier league (look at villa).

that is why it is absolutely imperative to get back into the premier league for next season.

if we do not, then the question has to be asked, was the squad good enough? yes.
was the manager backed? yes.
did the manager fail? yes.

unfortunately then if that does happen then in my oppinion, we then have a huge re-building job and have to appoint an experienced manager over a 4-5 year project.

as i have said before, a decent manager should be getting Albion out of this division with the resources available to use this season. if Moore achieves that, brilliant, i will be proud of the club and what DM has achieved in his first full season as manager and he should be backed to try and build his own squad.

but failure is not an option this season and if we do fail then unfortunately he must be made accountable for it. a lot on here dont seem to like that but its true.

i will continue to do what i have all season, remain positive and back my team every single home and away game and hopefully we achieve our aim.
 
COYB.

I think we just read Gazbergs post differently.....happens.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on February 27, 2019, 02:40:23 PM
How is this sense, its a pointless comment.  If this season is too imortant to.mess up does that mean you Ythink he should be replaced NOW? and with who?  Big Sam???  A top lower league manager (please see Stoke).    Ask Rafa to pop by and bring Sol back with him.........or did i misunderstand the original post?

It's too late to do it now. The warning signs were there right from the start of the season. Our failure to act may very well come back to bite us but we won't find out till all is said and done. Insanity at this point would be offering him a new contract.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on February 27, 2019, 02:42:22 PM
That's it for me as well.
Regardless of what division we are playing in next season we will have a massive overhaul of the squad.
6 loanees will go back.
The likes of Dawson/Phillips/Hegazi/Livermore/Gibbs/JRod would they fancy another season of Championship football or a relegation struggle in the Premiership?
Barry, Morrisson, Brunty all past it IMO.
Hoolihan and Mears will go  (hopefully)
Harper not signed a new deal yet.
That leaves the kids, Johnstone, Calamity Kyle and HRK.
Not inspiring is it?

This.  And if we we want to play a more progressive brand of football in the PL would we want Dawson and Livermore first picks anyway?  Both struggle to pass a ball forward more than ten yards.   Phillips is injury prone, Gibbs was often exposed in the air at LB and Jrod will struggle to reach double figures in the division above.  Hegazi is still green at the top level.   Are these the players we are pinning our PL status on?

Clubs needs full rebuild, and needs a philosophy and management team (full team including recruitment and youth) to hang it on..Being in the.PL doesn't magically solve your squad issues  its.not that long ago as a PL team we signed Samaras, Gambia and Davidson.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on February 27, 2019, 02:44:20 PM
It's too late to do it now. The warning signs were there right from the start of the season. Our failure to act may very well come back to bite us but we won't find out till all is said and done. Insanity at this point would be offering him a new contract.

Ahhh this is more about the new contract question.  Makes sense now even if I might not agree 👍
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on February 27, 2019, 03:45:47 PM
This.  And if we we want to play a more progressive brand of football in the PL would we want Dawson and Livermore first picks anyway?  Both struggle to pass a ball forward more than ten yards.   Phillips is injury prone, Gibbs was often exposed in the air at LB and Jrod will struggle to reach double figures in the division above.  Hegazi is still green at the top level.   Are these the players we are pinning our PL status on?

Clubs needs full rebuild, and needs a philosophy and management team (full team including recruitment and youth) to hang it on..Being in the.PL doesn't magically solve your squad issues  its.not that long ago as a PL team we signed Samaras, Gambia and Davidson.

Good points but surely being in the PL allows us more financial support and with the right recruitment team like you say in place we can attempt to be an established premier league club again. not being in the PL and failing at promotion year after year just reduces the possibility of it happening and the revenue gets less and less as Mr Lai is not going to invest any into us in 2-3 years if we fail to get back up there.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on February 27, 2019, 04:46:28 PM
I don't really get the issue with DM. Are we so arrogant as supporters that we expected to win this league by 20 points? This is a tough league, and only 3 teams out of 24 will go up. Many Relegated teams have struggled over the years. We have a new coach, who is learning his trade on the hoof. There was always going to be some ups and downs, but its a darn site more exciting than being bottom 4 in the Premiership, trying to just avoid defeat each week. We will NEVER be on a par with a lot of the Premiership clubs, unless some stupidly mega rich Arab buys us out. We need to keep our feet on the ground and remember who we are. It wasnt too long ago we were playing the likes of Bury at home on a freezing January night.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on February 27, 2019, 05:00:18 PM
I don't really get the issue with DM. Are we so arrogant as supporters that we expected to win this league by 20 points? This is a tough league, and only 3 teams out of 24 will go up. Many Relegated teams have struggled over the years. We have a new coach, who is learning his trade on the hoof. There was always going to be some ups and downs, but its a darn site more exciting than being bottom 4 in the Premiership, trying to just avoid defeat each week. We will NEVER be on a par with a lot of the Premiership clubs, unless some stupidly mega rich Arab buys us out. We need to keep our feet on the ground and remember who we are. It wasnt too long ago we were playing the likes of Bury at home on a freezing January night.

No one is being "arrogant" and i haven't seen a comment by anybody saying we should win the league by 20 points either.

we have no divine right to win the league and the championship is a very difficult league to get out of. However, we are a recently relegated side with the best squad in the league according to many people including fans of many other clubs. So with this comes expectation. as years go on and on with no success then expectation decreases. but as i say, we are a recently relegated side with the best strikeforce in the league.


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 27, 2019, 05:55:59 PM
Moore should remain regardless of whether we get promoted or not.

A merry go round of managers is not what the football club needs - especially whilst we have remained in constant contention for promotion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: maximus on February 27, 2019, 06:24:22 PM
I would rather we kept DM, I disagree alot with him and his choices, Whether that be lineup, Playing players out of position, Not being active enough with subs, Never criticising a loss with his samey answers after every game. But his albion and he is learning himself on the job, Going forward maybe he wont put so much faith in players not performing. Either way i would rather he stay, He did unite the whole club towards the end of last season, And that win against Spurs at home will stick with me forever, Even we did get relegated that day, We had a little bit of hope.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ronnie_allen on February 27, 2019, 06:34:24 PM
Some good arguments from both sides. Nice to see compared to some boards.

I feel Moore is probably doing slightly above par. Competing for play-offs and upwards would have been my expectation. Some of those managers around and above us are certainly over-achieving. I think every club would have bitten their hands off to get a manager of Bielsa's calibre at this level.  Stoke I would have thought were stronger at the start of the season and have totally capitulated. I feel Moore has done well to instil a togetherness and focus within the squad to have us competing and towards the upper end without any major fall-off; but certainly with this implemented we are probably being out-thought quite a bit.

One other factor; if we don't go up in relation to Moore being here next season is that as a young novice manager; I would be hopeful that he would have learned and gained a lot of experience that hopefully can make him a better manager next season. Not that there is any scientific guarantees that will be the case.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on February 27, 2019, 06:41:17 PM
Moore should remain regardless of whether we get promoted or not.

A merry go round of managers is not what the football club needs - especially whilst we have remained in constant contention for promotion.

Agree 100% Liam. But i fear that if we don't go up the knives will be out for him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gavinrussell on February 27, 2019, 07:30:09 PM
Let's  face it..if he goes who would we attract will no money to spend....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on February 27, 2019, 07:46:20 PM
It's far more simple than the Premier league, yet it's ok to dismiss Moore's record there?

Plus,isn't the general consensus with Moore's detractors, that he should be tearing up this "lower" league with this squad?

In my opinion the Moore sample in the premiership was not large enough to take a great deal from. Galvanising short term is view differently, hence why not all caretakers go on to get jobs, and why Ole at United still has questions around his long term future.

In respect to the second point, the general consensus from me and others who don't think he is doing a great job is that we should be pushing for the title closer than we are, and getting better performances from this squad. You've supported my point though by taking in to account other facts, such as our strong squad.

You can't dismiss a win percentage or suggest its easier without taking in to account further details. Wilders stepped a team up a division only two years ago so you have to say, his percentage is fantastic at SUFC.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on February 27, 2019, 08:05:37 PM
Johnny Cash agree 100%, he should be doing better with the players at his disposal. Anything less than top 2 has to be seen as a failure. Sure there have been some awful, awful individual errors and performances but his stubborness or lack of nous tactically has cost us too so he's not blameless yet he likes to persevere which causes people to see him as a motivator not a tactician.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 27, 2019, 08:36:10 PM
Johnny Cash agree 100%, he should be doing better with the players at his disposal. Anything less than top 2 has to be seen as a failure. Sure there have been some awful, awful individual errors and performances but his stubborness or lack of nous tactically has cost us too so he's not blameless yet he likes to persevere which causes people to see him as a motivator not a tactician.

And what if we finish 6th and win the playoffs and are promoted?

That surely is the main and overriding objective and the real measure of success

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 27, 2019, 08:42:12 PM
He has done and is doing a good job. He just needs to read the game better from the management side.
ie. When to change personnel and/or tactics.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on February 27, 2019, 08:42:56 PM
This squad the best in the league, really? According to lots of different people on here, here us a list of players not good enough
Johnstone
Hegazi
Dawson
Morrison
Brunt
HRK
Rodriguez also Holgate, Field and Harper have come in for some criticism. Then we have the other 4 loanees none of who are exactly pulling up trees. So this leaves Gibbs Phillips and Gayle! So I think Darren Moore not Dave is doing a bloody fantastic job!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 27, 2019, 10:21:29 PM
This squad the best in the league, really? According to lots of different people on here, here is a list of players not good enough
Johnstone
Hegazi
Dawson
Morrison
Brunt
HRK
Rodriguez also Holgate, Field and Harper have come in for some criticism. Then we have the other 4 loanees none of who are exactly pulling up trees. So this leaves Gibbs Phillips and Gayle! So I think Darren Moore not Dave is doing a bloody fantastic job!!

Well put sir, look at the comments in those threads and they are not spoken about as the best in the league.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 27, 2019, 11:27:59 PM
This squad the best in the league, really? According to lots of different people on here, here us a list of players not good enough
Johnstone
Hegazi
Dawson
Morrison
Brunt
HRK
Rodriguez also Holgate, Field and Harper have come in for some criticism. Then we have the other 4 loanees none of who are exactly pulling up trees. So this leaves Gibbs Phillips and Gayle! So I think Darren Moore not Dave is doing a bloody fantastic job!!

I agree

Given the years of pulis and pardew

Given the fact he took over a club with a disillusioned fan base

Given the fact we did not have a recruitment team when we took over

Senior players rocking the boat throughout pre-season

An aging unbalanced midfield

To be in contention at this point is what I had hoped.

Should we fail to go up, he still deserved time to mould this club how he wants

Rome wasn’t built in a day - neither were Sheffield United, Norwich and Bristol City who appear to be flavour of the month at the moment

Patience, may be a virtue
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on February 28, 2019, 09:00:15 AM
I agree

Given the years of pulis and pardew

Given the fact he took over a club with a disillusioned fan base

Given the fact we did not have a recruitment team when we took over

Senior players rocking the boat throughout pre-season

An aging unbalanced midfield

To be in contention at this point is what I had hoped.

Should we fail to go up, he still deserved time to mould this club how he wants

Rome wasn’t built in a day - neither were Sheffield United, Norwich and Bristol City who appear to be flavour of the month at the moment

Patience, may be a virtue


i think you are missing the point mate slightly without being rude. Sheffield Norwich and Bristol have all slowly built squads capable of challenging as you say.

But we have just been relegated and already have a squad more than capable of being in the top two if managed correctly. When you are relegated as long as you keep majority of the squad together you dont have to "build rome" for that. just a few additions and managed correctly, the first season back in the championship is the best and biggest chance to bounce straight back up.

DM did bring back the feel good factor at the club and plenty of positive feeling after a dreadful season with two poor managers. i would say he is just below par at the moment but hopefully he gets us in that top two.

i think 95% of the time DM picks the right team in all honesty, but its his in game management that is questionable.

tomorrow is the biggest game of the season so far i think, fail to win and we are going to have to do it through the play offs.

COYB.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on February 28, 2019, 09:23:57 AM
This is probably totally off beam BUT....

In Darrens playing career he is unlikely to have been subbed very often at all (barring injuries). Could this influence his thinking that subs should be used as a very last resort ?? Would he feel that players should start and finish games (as he did!)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on February 28, 2019, 09:43:54 AM
This is probably totally off beam BUT....

In Darrens playing career he is unlikely to have been subbed very often at all (barring injuries). Could this influence his thinking that subs should be used as a very last resort ?? Would he feel that players should start and finish games (as he did!)

A good point actually. i just find it completely bizarre the amount of games we have dominated and then 15-25 minutes to go the opposition starts coming back into the game and some players look dead on their feet and the changes happen too late. some games his first sub is 75 minutes onwards. Too late when it is 46 games a season and most weeks saturday-tuesday.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 28, 2019, 10:14:10 AM
It seems pretty clear that how well we think Darren is doing, depends on how good we think the squad is.

Personally, I don't think it is that good:
Johnstone, Dawson, Livermore, Rodriguez, whilst decent Championship level players are very over-rated by some.
The likes of HRK,  Bartley, Mears and Brunt (in CM) are pretty universally lambasted as not good enough.
Morrison and Phillips are injury prone and inconsistent.
Harper, Field and Tosin are still learning their trade.
Which leaves only Holgate, Hegazi, Gibbs and Gayle as genuine quality.

He picks the 11 that most would pick, in the formation that most would pick, so not sure he could do much different. His in-game management is suspect at times but we don't have a wealth of riches on the bench, especially in an attacking sense.

Would a different manager have us in the top 2? It's certainly possible, but a different manager could also have us in the bottom half so, for me, he's making a decent fist of it and, hopefully, will get us over the line and we can all unite behind him.
I'm sure though, that, even if we go up, there will be those that say he got lucky, is not good enough for the Prem, and the cycle will begin again.
History says that, if you say a manager isn't good enough, sooner or later you will be proved right.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on February 28, 2019, 10:18:53 AM
This is probably totally off beam BUT....

In Darrens playing career he is unlikely to have been subbed very often at all (barring injuries). Could this influence his thinking that subs should be used as a very last resort ?? Would he feel that players should start and finish games (as he did!)

I wouldn't think that would have anything to do with his decisions as a manager.

You could argue that point with 80% of managers, Steve Bruce was a defender but makes regular changes.

Even down the road, wasn't Nuno a goalkeeper, he would have probably never been subbed off in his career, but it doesn't stop him from making changes if needed in a game.

I have backed Darren Moore from the beginning (and still do). I wrote a post before about how I admire the cr*p hes had to deal with behind the scenes and how he still has us challenging for promotion.

Like others have said, we ran a poll at the start of the season and many had us finishing mid table, some even feared that we could do a 'Sunderland', yet here we are sitting in the playoffs, a win tomorrow puts in a strong position with a favourable run in.

For me he is doing a solid job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on February 28, 2019, 10:30:24 AM
I wouldn't think that would have anything to do with his decisions as a manager.

You could argue that point with 80% of managers, Steve Bruce was a defender but makes regular changes.

Even down the road, wasn't Nuno a goalkeeper, he would have probably never been subbed off in his career, but it doesn't stop him from making changes if needed in a game.

I have backed Darren Moore from the beginning (and still do). I wrote a post before about how I admire the cr*p hes had to deal with behind the scenes and how he still has us challenging for promotion.

Like others have said, we ran a poll at the start of the season and many had us finishing mid table, some even feared that we could do a 'Sunderland', yet here we are sitting in the playoffs, a win tomorrow puts in a strong position with a favourable run in.

For me he is doing a solid job.

Hey, I totally agree, especially for a novice he has done a really solid job IMO.
Do I agree with all his decisions a resounding No, but he is a professional coach and I'm not, I also don't know the injury status, fitness status, personal issues etc, etc that the players / squad are dealing with & so I measure my responses against his greater knowledge.

I think its healthy that fans question things but to "slag off" coaches when we re not in possession of the facts is just daft. That said when a coach consistently serves up negative / cowardly football its ok to call him out for it but then the converse has to be true.

So in summary, A good first season so far, yes it could have been better but my god it could have been a hell of a lot worse.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 28, 2019, 10:41:03 AM
It seems pretty clear that how well we think Darren is doing, depends on how good we think the squad is.

Personally, I don't think it is that good:
Johnstone, Dawson, Livermore, Rodriguez, whilst decent Championship level players are very over-rated by some.
The likes of HRK,  Bartley, Mears and Brunt (in CM) are pretty universally lambasted as not good enough.
Morrison and Phillips are injury prone and inconsistent.
Harper, Field and Tosin are still learning their trade.
Which leaves only Holgate, Hegazi, Gibbs and Gayle as genuine quality.

He picks the 11 that most would pick, in the formation that most would pick, so not sure he could do much different. His in-game management is suspect at times but we don't have a wealth of riches on the bench, especially in an attacking sense.

Would a different manager have us in the top 2? It's certainly possible, but a different manager could also have us in the bottom half so, for me, he's making a decent fist of it and, hopefully, will get us over the line and we can all unite behind him.
I'm sure though, that, even if we go up, there will be those that say he got lucky, is not good enough for the Prem, and the cycle will begin again.
History says that, if you say a manager isn't good enough, sooner or later you will be proved right.

I'd call issue with a lot of what you said, but had to make specific reference to that. I do not think most would have picked the three at the back for as many games as Darren went with it, and I do not think most would play Gayle as a left winger for starters.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 28, 2019, 11:09:56 AM
I'd call issue with a lot of what you said, but had to make specific reference to that. I do not think most would have picked the three at the back for as many games as Darren went with it, and I do not think most would play Gayle as a left winger for starters.
I know you would mate and that's fine, i'm not saying I'm right, just giving my opinion. You value the squad a lot higher than I do so your expectations are different and I get that.
As for the 3 at the back, I agreed at the time that it did go on a bit too long but, in hindsight, it wasn't as bad as it seems, especially at home, as we only lost 1 out of 7. Our home form has dived since we went 433, so it would be just as easy to criticise Darren for changing it!
Personally, I think it just backs up my theory that the players are just not that good and regardless of formation, we are limited and vulnerable in what is a very difficult league.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 28, 2019, 11:21:35 AM
I know you would mate and that's fine, i'm not saying I'm right, just giving my opinion. You value the squad a lot higher than I do so your expectations are different and I get that.
As for the 3 at the back, I agreed at the time that it did go on a bit too long but, in hindsight, it wasn't as bad as it seems, especially at home, as we only lost 1 out of 7. Our home form has dived since we went 433, so it would be just as easy to criticise Darren for changing it!
Personally, I think it just backs up my theory that the players are just not that good and regardless of formation, we are limited and vulnerable in what is a very difficult league.

Agree entirely, it is ultimately all down to opinions, I have no issue with people having opinions that differ to mine. I personally feel that the players we have should be capable of far more than we are currently providing at home and that, for a side looking toward automatic promotion, our form at home is completely unacceptable and I do not see enough being done by the powers that be to address it, either in planning for the games or during the game.

That Sheffield United game to me looked like one side who were insistent on lining up a certain way (us), with the other side knowing exactly how we would line up and exploiting it (them) and the first side doing absolutely nothing once realising that plan A was not going to work to address it, which to me is poor management.

I compare the two starting XI's player for player and it would impossible to convince me that we should have lost that game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on February 28, 2019, 11:27:16 AM
Agree entirely, it is ultimately all down to opinions, I have no issue with people having opinions that differ to mine. I personally feel that the players we have should be capable of far more than we are currently providing at home and that, for a side looking toward automatic promotion, our form at home is completely unacceptable and I do not see enough being done by the powers that be to address it, either in planning for the games or during the game.

That Sheffield United game to me looked like one side who were insistent on lining up a certain way (us), with the other side knowing exactly how we would line up and exploiting it (them) and the first side doing absolutely nothing once realising that plan A was not going to work to address it, which to me is poor management.

I compare the two starting XI's player for player and it would impossible to convince me that we should have lost that game.
Sheff Utd was horrible, worst performance of the season for me, and yes we looked found out. In Moore's defence though, even our "better" players, Barry, Gibbs, Holgate, Harper and Gayle were pants and it's hard to legislate for that all happening in the same game. Maybe tiredness, maybe motivation but, whatever it was, I hope they shake it by Friday.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on February 28, 2019, 11:44:09 AM
It seems pretty clear that how well we think Darren is doing, depends on how good we think the squad is.

Personally, I don't think it is that good:
Johnstone, Dawson, Livermore, Rodriguez, whilst decent Championship level players are very over-rated by some.
The likes of HRK,  Bartley, Mears and Brunt (in CM) are pretty universally lambasted as not good enough.
Morrison and Phillips are injury prone and inconsistent.
Harper, Field and Tosin are still learning their trade.
Which leaves only Holgate, Hegazi, Gibbs and Gayle as genuine quality.

He picks the 11 that most would pick, in the formation that most would pick, so not sure he could do much different. His in-game management is suspect at times but we don't have a wealth of riches on the bench, especially in an attacking sense.

Would a different manager have us in the top 2? It's certainly possible, but a different manager could also have us in the bottom half so, for me, he's making a decent fist of it and, hopefully, will get us over the line and we can all unite behind him.
I'm sure though, that, even if we go up, there will be those that say he got lucky, is not good enough for the Prem, and the cycle will begin again.
History says that, if you say a manager isn't good enough, sooner or later you will be proved right.
A very balanced post, with which I wholeheartedly agree. In particular, your analysis of the strength of the squad is spot on. It is not nearly as strong as many people on here make out, and certainly not so good that we should be winning the division with ease. Patience is something we as fans aren't blessed with, but patient we must be. I don't believe that we will go up this season, but it won't be the disaster that many people seem to think. We have quite a few very promising youngsters, and a new scouting system, which will hopefully unearth a few gems that don't cost the earth. DM inherited a mess and is building for the future. I am very hopeful that after a couple of seasons in the Championship we will rise again and be stronger and better equipped to go up than we are right now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 28, 2019, 11:47:56 AM
Sheff Utd was horrible, worst performance of the season for me, and yes we looked found out. In Moore's defence though, even our "better" players, Barry, Gibbs, Holgate, Harper and Gayle were pants and it's hard to legislate for that all happening in the same game. Maybe tiredness, maybe motivation but, whatever it was, I hope they shake it by Friday.

Massive one Friday. I think I speak on behalf of all those who question Moore's ability when I say that, despite that, we will all be behind them for a big performance and hopefully massive win on Friday to set us up for the remaining 10/11 games of the season. We can still more than achieve automatic promotion, we have a favourable run of home fixtures to hopefully address the awful home form and hopefully we keep the away form as it has been.

I would love nothing more than for Darren to shut me up because it would mean promotion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on February 28, 2019, 12:12:57 PM
Agree entirely, it is ultimately all down to opinions, I have no issue with people having opinions that differ to mine. I personally feel that the players we have should be capable of far more than we are currently providing at home and that, for a side looking toward automatic promotion, our form at home is completely unacceptable and I do not see enough being done by the powers that be to address it, either in planning for the games or during the game.

That Sheffield United game to me looked like one side who were insistent on lining up a certain way (us), with the other side knowing exactly how we would line up and exploiting it (them) and the first side doing absolutely nothing once realising that plan A was not going to work to address it, which to me is poor management.

I compare the two starting XI's player for player and it would impossible to convince me that we should have lost that game.

Completely Agree. out of their starting 11 i wouldn't have swapped one player.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on February 28, 2019, 12:15:04 PM
Massive one Friday. I think I speak on behalf of all those who question Moore's ability when I say that, despite that, we will all be behind them for a big performance and hopefully massive win on Friday to set us up for the remaining 10/11 games of the season. We can still more than achieve automatic promotion, we have a favourable run of home fixtures to hopefully address the awful home form and hopefully we keep the away form as it has been.

I would love nothing more than for Darren to shut me up because it would mean promotion.

Second that. there is over 2,000 of us going friday and they will be right behind the team as usual away from home.

but it is really the critical stage of the season and we HAVE to win friday if we are to go up automatically.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on February 28, 2019, 02:19:19 PM
Agree entirely, it is ultimately all down to opinions, I have no issue with people having opinions that differ to mine. I personally feel that the players we have should be capable of far more than we are currently providing at home and that, for a side looking toward automatic promotion, our form at home is completely unacceptable and I do not see enough being done by the powers that be to address it, either in planning for the games or during the game.

That Sheffield United game to me looked like one side who were insistent on lining up a certain way (us), with the other side knowing exactly how we would line up and exploiting it (them) and the first side doing absolutely nothing once realising that plan A was not going to work to address it, which to me is poor management.

I compare the two starting XI's player for player and it would impossible to convince me that we should have lost that game.
Moore didn't react at all, and it is clear now that the players are told to stick to the pre-match plan until told otherwise.  I don't think we had one serious effort until about 5 minutes from time when Montero beat the keeper to a long ball but touched it straight into his arms.  If I could see the big hole between our back 6 and the front 3+Harper, if I could see they had 3 up hassling brilliantly in our half while we stooged it around, leaving 7 against 4 in theirs if we ever managed to get it forward, why couldn't Moore.?  Or Jones?  Are our players banned from trying to get a message to Moore that it isn't working? If it had been 0-0 you could maybe have understood it.
 
What is frustrating is one of the only times we went for a big shift, against Sheff Weds away, it worked.  Maybe it was individual moments from Barnes, but if you chop things around anything can happen, you might concede as well as score, but if you're losing anyway it doesn't matter that much.

I am still pro-Moore, by the way, I just hope he loosens up a bit in this area.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on February 28, 2019, 02:35:56 PM
A very balanced post, with which I wholeheartedly agree. In particular, your analysis of the strength of the squad is spot on. It is not nearly as strong as many people on here make out, and certainly not so good that we should be winning the division with ease. Patience is something we as fans aren't blessed with, but patient we must be. I don't believe that we will go up this season, but it won't be the disaster that many people seem to think. We have quite a few very promising youngsters, and a new scouting system, which will hopefully unearth a few gems that don't cost the earth. DM inherited a mess and is building for the future. I am very hopeful that after a couple of seasons in the Championship we will rise again and be stronger and better equipped to go up than we are right now.

I don't see anyone suggesting we should win it with ease, but it is the strongest squad in the division. I'll happily debate any other squad you think is better.

We certainly arent getting the performances of the best squad though. Jay Rodriquez for instance has had some very poor games, but you cannot tell me he isn't better than the majority of the forwards in this division.

The fact we have so many players under performing should bring question marks over what they are being asked to do. I don't look at our squad and think its an attitude problem, most seem like good honest pro's.



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on February 28, 2019, 05:49:23 PM
I don't see anyone suggesting we should win it with ease, but it is the strongest squad in the division. I'll happily debate any other squad you think is better.

We certainly arent getting the performances of the best squad though. Jay Rodriquez for instance has had some very poor games, but you cannot tell me he isn't better than the majority of the forwards in this division.

The fact we have so many players under performing should bring question marks over what they are being asked to do. I don't look at our squad and think its an attitude problem, most seem like good honest pro's.
I'll turn the question around. You say that we have the best squad in the division, but they are under performing. You pick Jay Rodriguez as an example, so you must rate him pretty highly. Are you seriously suggesting that he is the best forward in the division, or even one of the top 3? And tell me exactly when in his career you think he was playing at his very best?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 28, 2019, 06:15:30 PM
Looks like HRK is back for tomorrow, glad to see some one who can give us a more direct and hold the ball up option.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on February 28, 2019, 06:22:53 PM
I'll turn the question around. You say that we have the best squad in the division, but they are under performing. You pick Jay Rodriguez as an example, so you must rate him pretty highly. Are you seriously suggesting that he is the best forward in the division, or even one of the top 3? And tell me exactly when in his career you think he was playing at his very best?

He's not far off. Gayle, Rodriguez, Abraham and Assombalonga are the best 4 proven strikers in this division. Che Adams and Neal Maupay are both very good young prospects. Sharp is a veteran poacher having the best season of his career. Pukki is having an incredible season but has never done anything in his career prior to this season. We've got the best squad in the division, we have a top Championship player in every position and when fully fit have the strongest bench in the league.

I'd also disagree with the people saying Moore is building for the future. Look at the squad, Moore has built for the extreme short term. I said in the summer we had 2 options, go down the long term route by bringing in young players and scouting abroad, or target an immediate return to the Prem. We clearly chose the second option which is why I've been less patient with Moore. I expected top 2 when the summer window closed and I feel the board would have expected the same, I think he's underperforming. If we'd chosen the long term vision I would have expected a similar season to Swansea's (but without their chronic lack of investment), in this case I'd be more concerned with play style and performances than league position.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on February 28, 2019, 06:51:12 PM
I'll turn the question around. You say that we have the best squad in the division, but they are under performing. You pick Jay Rodriguez as an example, so you must rate him pretty highly. Are you seriously suggesting that he is the best forward in the division, or even one of the top 3? And tell me exactly when in his career you think he was playing at his very best?

Yes I rate him highly at this level. He isn’t the best but I agree with the poster who said his quality and ability is in the best 5 or 6, although I don’t think he’s doing himself justice. If we assume 4 forwards per club that’s 96 so he is better than the majority. Also agree with the poster before that we have one of those few better in Gayle (bizarrely in the prem you may get more from jay than Gayle in a struggling side)

As for when he’s been at his best, that’s easy but sadly a long time ago in football terms now and without doubt 13-14 at Southampton. 1 in 2 season, England cap and talk of a big move to spurs. I don’t think any other player in the champ has hit that height in their careeer albeit short lived due to injuries (bar the older pros like Barry and Cole).

I honestly believe JR and the squad in general is capable of more, and like I said, I don’t think it’s his attitude. Even playing poorly nobodies really dominated us.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on February 28, 2019, 06:55:43 PM
We surely do have the strongest squad in the league.  We still got to 32pts with one of the worst managers in our history (Pardew). 

The board have been proactive with adding players.  We haven’t lost many from last season just Evans, Chadli, Rondon, Foster. 

Our rivals haven’t got many household names.  Read through the Leeds squad for tomorrow, would people seriously swap theirs for ours?  Ditto Sheffield Utd and Norwich.

No other clubs really come close maybe Villa, Stoke.

RE: expectations some people say there was disruption with a rookie manager, new playing style, new division, even looking at the Sunlun, Dingles examples.

Others just say after 46 games we should prevail due to have the strongest squad/team.

Overall I just can’t see how football fans can make a case for other teams over ours?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on February 28, 2019, 08:43:06 PM
You can go round and round in circles all day on this but for me names on paper mean nothing as seen with our relegation last season . I also believe it's no surprise that some of the teams doing well have been building for two or three seasons .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dan on February 28, 2019, 09:24:38 PM
We surely do have the strongest squad in the league.  We still got to 32pts with one of the worst managers in our history (Pardew). 

The board have been proactive with adding players.  We haven’t lost many from last season just Evans, Chadli, Rondon, Foster. 

Our rivals haven’t got many household names.  Read through the Leeds squad for tomorrow, would people seriously swap theirs for ours?  Ditto Sheffield Utd and Norwich.

No other clubs really come close maybe Villa, Stoke.

RE: expectations some people say there was disruption with a rookie manager, new playing style, new division, even looking at the Sunlun, Dingles examples.

Others just say after 46 games we should prevail due to have the strongest squad/team.

Overall I just can’t see how football fans can make a case for other teams over ours?

Which was everything to do with Moore, before he came in we were on for one of the lowest points totals ever.

In general our team isn't that good, lots of people rating names over anything a lot of these players have done in recent times.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on February 28, 2019, 11:27:10 PM
Yes I rate him highly at this level. He isn’t the best but I agree with the poster who said his quality and ability is in the best 5 or 6, although I don’t think he’s doing himself justice. If we assume 4 forwards per club that’s 96 so he is better than the majority. Also agree with the poster before that we have one of those few better in Gayle (bizarrely in the prem you may get more from jay than Gayle in a struggling side)

As for when he’s been at his best, that’s easy but sadly a long time ago in football terms now and without doubt 13-14 at Southampton. 1 in 2 season, England cap and talk of a big move to spurs. I don’t think any other player in the champ has hit that height in their careeer albeit short lived due to injuries (bar the older pros like Barry and Cole).

I honestly believe JR and the squad in general is capable of more, and like I said, I don’t think it’s his attitude. Even playing poorly nobodies really dominated us.
Exactly. So if it's a question of getting the best out of him, several managers have failed with him since then. DM has probably done about the best with him in the last 6 or 7 years. Personally I don't think he was ever as good after his injury
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on March 01, 2019, 06:36:18 AM
Which was everything to do with Moore, before he came in we were on for one of the lowest points totals ever.

In general our team isn't that good, lots of people rating names over anything a lot of these players have done in recent times.

Good point about Darren Moore's achievements last season.

However, you need to evaluate the other Championship squads then compare them to ours.  There is not much quality flying around IMO.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Nathan on March 01, 2019, 10:12:56 AM
Good point about Darren Moore's achievements last season.

However, you need to evaluate the other Championship squads then compare them to ours.  There is not much quality flying around IMO.

The thing about Darren Moore's 'achievements' last season is that in all honesty how much of the improved set of results in the last 6 games was down to him? In my opinion the answer is very little. It's the same scenario this season with Manchester United, the players obviously didn't want to play for/perform for Jose Mourinho yet they miraculously improved IMMEDIATELY after he left. I don't think Solskjaer would even begin to take credit for such a drastic, immediate change! Our players quite clearly didn't want to play for Pardew. Anybody (within reason) appointed manager would have seen an improved performance, not because of him, but because of the change in the willingness of the players to perform. Moore was extremely lucky to get the job on the back of this. I agree with your final point, the Championship is extremely poor this season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 01, 2019, 10:33:12 AM
The thing about Darren Moore's 'achievements' last season is that in all honesty how much of the improved set of results in the last 6 games was down to him? In my opinion the answer is very little. It's the same scenario this season with Manchester United, the players obviously didn't want to play for/perform for Jose Mourinho yet they miraculously improved IMMEDIATELY after he left. I don't think Solskjaer would even begin to take credit for such a drastic, immediate change! Our players quite clearly didn't want to play for Pardew. Anybody (within reason) appointed manager would have seen an improved performance, not because of him, but because of the change in the willingness of the players to perform. Moore was extremely lucky to get the job on the back of this. I agree with your final point, the Championship is extremely poor this season.
Using that rationale, you are saying that the players in question, many of whom are still here, deliberately under-performed in order to lose games, just to get the manager the sack, even though it meant certain relegation? If that's true then we can't possibly have the best squad in the division, can we as this would be despicable behaviour.

Even if it was true, why did we not see an upturn when Pardew took over?

I think you are finding ways to discredit Moore's achievements to back up your argument against him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 01, 2019, 10:35:21 AM
The thing about Darren Moore's 'achievements' last season is that in all honesty how much of the improved set of results in the last 6 games was down to him? In my opinion the answer is very little. It's the same scenario this season with Manchester United, the players obviously didn't want to play for/perform for Jose Mourinho yet they miraculously improved IMMEDIATELY after he left. I don't think Solskjaer would even begin to take credit for such a drastic, immediate change! Our players quite clearly didn't want to play for Pardew. Anybody (within reason) appointed manager would have seen an improved performance, not because of him, but because of the change in the willingness of the players to perform. Moore was extremely lucky to get the job on the back of this. I agree with your final point, the Championship is extremely poor this season.
My thoughts exactly. I didn't begrudge him his chance,and I hope he takes us up, but he takes too long to recognise the need for change, both in game, and in strategy.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 01, 2019, 10:40:11 AM
Using that rationale, you are saying that the players in question, many of whom are still here, deliberately under-performed in order to lose games, just to get the manager the sack, even though it meant certain relegation? If that's true then we can't possibly have the best squad in the division, can we as this would be despicable behaviour.

Even if it was true, why did we not see an upturn when Pardew took over?

I think you are finding ways to discredit Moore's achievements to back up your argument against him.
They threw in the towel under Pardew without a doubt. Yes they let us down badly. The Leadership let us down badly too. They should have let Megson have the job for the rest of the season, and if they had we would not be playing Leeds tonight and worrying about promotion. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Nathan on March 01, 2019, 10:49:53 AM
Using that rationale, you are saying that the players in question, many of whom are still here, deliberately under-performed in order to lose games, just to get the manager the sack, even though it meant certain relegation? If that's true then we can't possibly have the best squad in the division, can we as this would be despicable behaviour.

Even if it was true, why did we not see an upturn when Pardew took over?

I think you are finding ways to discredit Moore's achievements to back up your argument against him.

I'm not trying to discredit Moore, I'm just playing devil's advocate and looking at it from another angle which is more that feasible and realistic. I'd love nothing more than for him to succeed, I just don't think he will and I don't think he was the right man for the job.

Regarding the Pardew point, we DID show a bit of an initial upturn, especially over New Year and into January. The three consecutive games in particular, Brighton at home, Everton away, Liverpool away (FA cup), we looked to be on the right track and showing vast improvement. Things then went drastically wrong within a fortnight surrounding the Sturridge loan and the disastrous Barcelona trip. We might never know what happened around that time but something certainly did and the players definitely downed tools.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 01, 2019, 11:50:55 AM
I'm not trying to discredit Moore, I'm just playing devil's advocate and looking at it from another angle which is more that feasible and realistic. I'd love nothing more than for him to succeed, I just don't think he will and I don't think he was the right man for the job.

Regarding the Pardew point, we DID show a bit of an initial upturn, especially over New Year and into January. The three consecutive games in particular, Brighton at home, Everton away, Liverpool away (FA cup), we looked to be on the right track and showing vast improvement. Things then went drastically wrong within a fortnight surrounding the Sturridge loan and the disastrous Barcelona trip. We might never know what happened around that time but something certainly did and the players definitely downed tools.
Moore took 11 points from his 6 Prem games (and won manager of the month) Pardew took 3 from his first 6.
Sorry but I think it's grossly unfair to deny him credit for this period and it's not more feasible, or realistic, to put it down to luck. Regardless of what the players thought of Pardew, they stood up and were counted for Darren and that is an achievement that cannot be denied.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 01, 2019, 12:19:10 PM
I'd take nothing away from those six games last season, personally. It could well have been the perfect storm of the players feeling no pressure as, for all intents and purposes, we were down already, it could have been tactical brilliance and mastery from Darren, we'll never know, just like those saying other managers would do better or worse with the current squad in this league, they are all unknowns that we will never be able to know for sure. I just hope he gets the chance to ply his trade in the Premier League again next season as it means he would have achieved him minimum objective this season, to get us back up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 01, 2019, 02:45:14 PM
Not getting more out of the dreadful Jay Rodriguez is hardly something to criticise Darren for. He's limped his way to 17 goals a combination of penalties/tap ins/deflections/keeper spills and handballs. The criticism for Moore if any is allowing the goals to gloss over a series of woeful performances from Jay.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on March 01, 2019, 03:41:07 PM
Not getting more out of the dreadful Jay Rodriguez is hardly something to criticise Darren for. He's limped his way to 17 goals a combination of penalties/tap ins/deflections/keeper spills and handballs. The criticism for Moore if any is allowing the goals to gloss over a series of woeful performances from Jay.

I absolutely hear what you are saying, Jay seems to be the complete polar opposite to Markus Rosenburg who had force fields installed in the goalmouths.  I think Jay may be an example of the harder I work, the luckier I get.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 01, 2019, 04:17:01 PM
Some of the comments about Jrod bemuse me.

Granted he is no world beater but the way some talk to get 17 goals is a fluke.

No way am i comparing these players as Jrod isnt nowhere near their level, but look at the goals Lineker, Van Nistelrooy, Fowler, Kevin Phillips (in his younger days) scored, most were taps in, following up keeper spillages or penalties with the odd spectacular goal! None were known for being all round great players but they scored bags of goals, every team wants a goalscorer! Were all their goals lucky as well?!

Its not luck, its instinct, its reactions, its knowing when to be in the right place and at this level Jrod can do that and do it well, he may struggle in the premier league as the reactions, etc need to be a split second quicker but this season he is just fine.

I think most clubs would take such a hopeless striker who just happens to of fluked his way to 17 goals with still a quarter of the season to go! Look on most teams forums when we play them this season, Jrods name is usually one of the names to watch.

Darren Moore has his faults as we all do and time will tell if he is the right man for Albion (personally i think he is) but to slate him for playing a player who has scored 17 goals this season so far and who also got 11 goals last season (playing as a striker in one of the most negative and poor teams of recent years) is quite something.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 01, 2019, 05:49:23 PM
Spot on Albion 79.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 01, 2019, 06:27:56 PM
Apologies Albionic, i think (i may of misunderstood) but you were giving credit for the harder he works the luckier he gets which isnt a bad thing.

Certainly at home i think Moore needs to try and get Gayle and Jrod as a partnership, it worked well at the start of the season but to be fair Gayle has weighed in with goals from the left too, i also think Jrods role is to try and link the play by dropping deeper, again i dont think he is great at it but at this level does a decent job and i am not sure Gayle would be able to do that role.

I just dont think playing a striker who has got 17 goals with 12 games or so left to play should be used as a negative against Moore yet it seems to be (the jrod topic itself shows it and also on here now)

Still all about opinions, its what makes it interesting!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 01, 2019, 06:52:55 PM
No LB in the team tonight despite Townsend on the bench and continues to play Gayle out wide. Big gamble by DM.

Hope it pays off.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 01, 2019, 08:33:53 PM
I believe in reacting after 90 minutes but tonight I’ll make an exception. I’m not going to be sarcastic but am seriously interested to hear peoples opinions on Darren Moore tonight.

The biggest game of the season and we are 2-0 down at half time. Work all week and stuck at Leeds watching this pathetic performance.

You DO NOT play a right footed centre half, at left back!!!!!! His positioning was all over the place for the first goal and played them onside for the second goal. DM made that decision with a left back on the bench.

Gayle still plays out wide and we have no wingers on the pitch. Unbelievable.

Hopefully some see sense tonight that unfortunately DM is not cut out to be a manager at this level.

Basic football.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gavinrussell on March 01, 2019, 08:38:42 PM
Unfortunately he doesn't seem to be able to react until it's too late...would have taken Tosin off after a minute...dont think any of the players could complain if the were pulled at half time..
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 01, 2019, 08:39:48 PM
Second guessing himself with Tosh on pitch and Townsend on bench, had full week to come up with planto compete with Leeds. Think he came with a plan of keep them scoreless for 60 or 70 minutes then change it to see if we can nick it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dan on March 01, 2019, 08:40:40 PM
In his defence the squad is nowhere near as good as a lot of people think it is. There's a reason we finished bottom last season and were going down with about 17 points till Moore came in.

Dawson is a average championship standard centre back, good in the air but nothing else. So many goals we've conceded since he moved to centre back where his lack of concentration just means someone gets behind him.

The entire midfield is mid-table championship level at best whichever options we pick. Barry for all the praise is 38 and horrible in every game except where we don't take the lead and sit extremely deep. Livermore has no discernable attributes as far as I can tell, Brunt was never a central midfielder and didn't suddenly become one at 33, Johanssen clearly isn't fit or looked any better than Livermore when he played, Harper has talent on the ball but needs to work a lot harder off it - that will determine what division he ends up in, Morrison and Phillips always injured.....

Out the forwards Gayle is lethal at this level, Rodriguez is OK championship forward - his goal stats heavily padded out by penalties almost all won by Gayle but as with Livermore i'm not sure what the supposed qualities of Rodriguez are really, HRK is a ten a penny championship forward we could get virtually any big lump to do the same job with the same effectiveness.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 01, 2019, 08:42:41 PM
Needs to go asap. Terrible performances and tactics for the majority of the season but somehow kept us in the chase due to the fact we have many of the better players in the division (not that you would know it).

Now found wanting every single game. Blokes clueless. Top man, toss manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 01, 2019, 08:45:01 PM
In his defence the squad is nowhere near as good as a lot of people think it is. There's a reason we finished bottom last season and were going down with about 17 points till Moore came in.

Dawson is a average championship standard centre back, good in the air but nothing else. So many goals we've conceded since he moved to centre back where his lack of concentration just means someone gets behind him.

The entire midfield is mid-table championship level at best whichever options we pick. Barry for all the praise is 38 and horrible in every game except where we don't take the lead and sit extremely deep. Livermore has no discernable attributes as far as I can tell, Brunt was never a central midfielder and didn't suddenly become one at 33, Johanssen clearly isn't fit or looked any better than Livermore when he played, Harper has talent on the ball but needs to work a lot harder off it - that will determine what division he ends up in, Morrison and Phillips always injured.....

Out the forwards Gayle is lethal at this level, Rodriguez is OK championship forward - his goal stats heavily padded out by penalties almost all won by Gayle but as with Livermore i'm not sure what the supposed qualities of Rodriguez are really, HRK is a ten a penny championship forward we could get virtually any big lump to do the same job with the same effectiveness.


Nothing to do with quality of squad. You do NOT put a right footed centre half at left back when you have a left back on the bench!!!! No wingers starting and Gayle out wide again.He is to blame
For
Tonight, end of.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 01, 2019, 08:47:56 PM
If you can't get the basics right and he can't then every game will be an uphill struggle.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 01, 2019, 08:49:25 PM
If you can't get the basics right and he can't then every game will be an uphill struggle.


I am genuinely intrigued to see what the fans opinions are of tonight who rate Moore and think he is doing a good job.

Had to win tonight and a complete balls up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 01, 2019, 08:50:33 PM
He’s not even made a sub. Laughable.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: graka on March 01, 2019, 08:55:21 PM

Nothing to do with quality of squad. You do NOT put a right footed centre half at left back when you have a left back on the bench!!!! No wingers starting and Gayle out wide again.He is to blame
For
Tonight, end of.

Completely agree. We do have the best or one of the best 2 or 3 squads in the league.
Moore and Jones were lucky in the fact the quality on the pitch got us through despite of shape and selection.
Both of them are clueless please get rid
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 01, 2019, 08:57:52 PM
We are where we are in spite of these 2, not because of them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: EastYorksAlbion on March 01, 2019, 09:05:18 PM
We are where we are purely down to individual performances through the season, not team, tactics or management.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 01, 2019, 09:13:26 PM
Going to be an uphill task to even make the playoffs under this clown. Time to put him out of his misery.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: barnestormer on March 01, 2019, 09:14:21 PM
No one absolutely no one can defend Moore and his team selection tonight.disgraceful
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mig on March 01, 2019, 09:14:34 PM
Not getting more out of the dreadful Jay Rodriguez is hardly something to criticise Darren for. He's limped his way to 17 goals a combination of penalties/tap ins/deflections/keeper spills and handballs. The criticism for Moore if any is allowing the goals to gloss over a series of woeful performances from Jay.

I agree that Rodriguez really isn't that good but then surely Moore is at fault for picking him every week?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on March 01, 2019, 09:21:04 PM
So for the last few games we've seen the following:

Barry poor.
Midfield far too slow in all aspects.
Absolutely no link up between Rod and Gayle.
We've been poor offensively through the middle so you use 2 wingers.

None of this picked up by Moore and Jones.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on March 01, 2019, 09:39:50 PM
It's time for Moore to address the glaringly obvious.

We need wingers on the pitch.

One of Rodriguez or Gayle has to be benched.

We need to go 4231.

Back 4 picks itself.

Then for me Barry and Livermore sitting.

An attacking 3 of Murphy one wing, Montero the other and Phillips in the middle. Gayle up top.

There's no balance, no power, no urgency, no drive and no fight in this team.

We thought QPR was a turning point, it just papered over the cracks.

I'm still behind Moore but not if he can't see the bleeding obvious for much longer.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 01, 2019, 09:40:15 PM
He's crumbling when it matters. I'd like to see Jones out of the door before I write Moore off. The tail is wagging the dog imo.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on March 01, 2019, 09:43:27 PM
Don't know whether it's Jones lead or not but we bottle every game against teams that work hard against us , same  mistakes every week which we can all see .
Time for a reboot , get ready for a play off charge and some big changes needed.
If he intends to limp on like this I expect him gone next season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Aztech on March 01, 2019, 09:43:57 PM
He's crumbling when it matters. I'd like to see Jones out of the door before I write Moore off. The tail is wagging the dog imo.

Jones is indeed the man that makes the decisions, unfortunately without him Darren Moore would be absolutely clueless.

Let’s here what he has to say tonight, My guess Leeds are a fantastic side and we move on to the next game 😡
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on March 01, 2019, 09:45:24 PM
He's crumbling when it matters. I'd like to see Jones out of the door before I write Moore off. The tail is wagging the dog imo.

Got to be honest I agree, Jones is not the man for me, Moore needs guidance from someone with number 1 experience not a number 2 who was a part of a poor Wigan set-up
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on March 01, 2019, 09:45:28 PM
One point from a fortunate penalty against forest boro sheff and Leeds tells its own story so naive on many fronts . Thanks for bringing a bit of unity but dreadfully naive the pair of them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on March 01, 2019, 09:46:19 PM
Jones is indeed the man that makes the decisions, unfortunately without him Darren Moore would be absolutely clueless.

Let’s here what he has to say tonight, My guess Leeds are a fantastic side and we move on to the next game 😡

It's time he came out and took the blame for a loss. Not only that but not changing things now for 180 minutes of dross against two teams above us.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 01, 2019, 09:48:58 PM
Jones is indeed the man that makes the decisions, unfortunately without him Darren Moore would be absolutely clueless.

Let’s here what he has to say tonight, My guess Leeds are a fantastic side and we move on to the next game 😡


He was far from clueless against Liverpool,  Manchester United, Spurs and Newcastle. This Martinez crony is now our biggest issue.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on March 01, 2019, 09:51:58 PM
It's time for Moore to address the glaringly obvious.

We need wingers on the pitch.

One of Rodriguez or Gayle has to be benched.

We need to go 4231.

Back 4 picks itself.

Then for me Barry and Livermore sitting.

An attacking 3 of Murphy one wing, Montero the other and Phillips in the middle. Gayle up top.

There's no balance, no power, no urgency, no drive and no fight in this team.

We thought QPR was a turning point, it just papered over the cracks.

I'm still behind Moore but not if he can't see the bleeding obvious for much longer.

Just going to quote myself and say i had gone a bit made when i wrote the part in bold. I have no idea who the sitting two should be.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 01, 2019, 09:52:21 PM
Player's were poor tonight front three were anonymous midfield were so slow and back four were car crash waiting to happen. Having said that Moore and Jones have a lot to figure out if they hope to stay in play offs
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 01, 2019, 09:52:46 PM
He plays too many out of position.
ala Pulis his teacher.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on March 01, 2019, 09:53:33 PM
We've got results in spite of many poor performances all season but we're being picked apart by far more organised and energised teams at the moment.

Can't see that Darren will turn this around enough . He seems to have little clue at the moment and the players look lost.

The one basic requirememt should be oganisation and we don't have that - another few games like this and Darren is in big trouble.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Aztech on March 01, 2019, 09:54:02 PM

He was far from clueless against Liverpool,  Manchester United, Spurs and Newcastle. This Martinez crony is now our biggest issue.

It could be argued Pardew wasn’t clueless at Newcastle with some of the results he achieved there, doesn’t make him a good manager though.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mini gaardsoe on March 01, 2019, 09:54:06 PM

He was far from clueless against Liverpool,  Manchester United, Spurs and Newcastle. This Martinez crony is now our biggest issue.

If you belive that then we have a manager who can’t make his own decisions and is being bullied in to tactics by the number 2 he chose, which is just as bad as being an awful manager
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: koren on March 01, 2019, 09:56:49 PM
Since Barnes left, it's clearly that we lack pace on the front and Gayle is ineffective at left wing.
It seems that Moore still doesn't notice that up to now.
We still have a chance in the play-offs if we can fix the problems quickly, Murphy and Montero would be useful.
But the most important thing is Moore willing to make changes.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mig on March 01, 2019, 10:06:07 PM
Where exactly is the evidence that Jones suddenly is running the show? We don't play anything like the exciting and dynamic Belgium team he coached, nor Martinez's Everton (aside from the defensive deficiencies) so I feel the guy is becoming a bit of a scapegoat. And regardless it was Moore's decision to bring Jones in so I doubt one will go before the other.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 01, 2019, 10:06:46 PM
The bloke looks frightened at the moment between his own principles and those of Jones. The pattern play looks severely disjointed because the midfield nor current formation suits us

Moore should be criticised for hanging Tosin out to dry. Such poor judgement and player management skills.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 01, 2019, 10:08:17 PM
Even Keith Andrews who has seen us a handful of times wonders why Darren didn’t adapt to it! Everyone can see it
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on March 01, 2019, 10:09:25 PM
Even Keith Andrews who has seen us a handful of times wonders why Darren didn’t adapt to it! Everyone can see it

What did they say?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Aztech on March 01, 2019, 10:10:22 PM
Even Keith Andrews who has seen us a handful of times wonders why Darren didn’t adapt to it! Everyone can see it

Keith Andrews has been pretty much spot on in his analysis of our games this season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 01, 2019, 10:11:38 PM
I agree Jacko, unfortunately we will probably never know but i would be keen to know how much influence Jones has.

If (a) he is pulling the strings and has done nothing to rectify a shocking run of results and performances the past month has produced then i would ask if he is the right man for us. On the flip side (b) if he is pointing things out and being ignored then i would think his professional pride would look to leave. I have a feeling it is option A as i cant help but think if he was disillusioned he would of gone to Luton or elsewhere.

As for Big Dave, he made a choice at the start of the season to give the players who let the club down last season and got 2 managers sacked another chance and that will possible be his downfall.

I think he has done a decent job, i thought we would be around the playoffs around now but its the manner of things which is a worry. I said at the start of the season with all the turmoil at the club i was hoping we would be mid table to top half then second half of the season kick ontowards the playoffs. Instead of kicking on we seem to be getting worse and its not just the results, its the tactics, setup and performances which have got me having doubts about Moore.

I dont want him sacked but the last month cant be masked over, we have lost to Middlesbrough, Sheffield United and Leeds and cheated a draw vs Forest, in all those games but the last two inparticular we have offered no attacking threat and i cannot any keeper having saves to make, our strength was our attacking play but we have lost that, it does seem Barnes was more important than we all thought but you cant cry over it, he isnt coming back, we dont have a like for like replacement so we have to try something different, however we are not doing that and thats what worries me about Moore.

I find it hard to believe Moore and the coaches really thought that Leeds would play the same again after we battered them 4-1 yet since that day we have not changed our formation once and the stubborness / naivety / arrogance to do not do so is a concern.

I have said previous i am not bothered about going up as it will mean we get to see the back of these players and rebuild, at this stage i think Moore has enough credit and enough knowledge of the academy to be given the chance next season to do that, however i would imagine if we dont make the playoffs he will be gone.

Speaking of the players, they have to take a massive share of the blame, yet again in big games they have bottled it, thats why i dont blame Moore as much because over the past few seasons a number of these players whether under Pulis, Pardew and now Moore have failed to produce when the pressure is on.

A lot of them are living on past reputations, england internationals, established premier league players, etc, etc thats why on paper opposition fans and a number of our own fans says we should be doing better with the squad we have, maybe they are right to an extent but our squad is strong on paper.

As we witnessed numerous times last season, these players just arent that good, if they were they wouldnt of finished bottom of the premier league, they made it look more respectable when the pressure was off at the end of the season, when it really counted they bottled it and we could easily of finished one of the worst premier league teams ever (thats not to take away credit from Moore who managed to wake them up at the end of last season)

Last season wasnt bad luck, it was combination of things, one key one being the players were no longer as good and living on past glories, fortunately judging by how other clubs look at them and the media talk, should we not go up, those past glories might con some other teams into buying them off us.

Its okay snatching a late win at QPR and the players spouting off how we are as one, what a team, we all love each other, etc the reality is yet again when big games happen, we dont turn up and its happened too often to just be bad luck or bad form, there is a culture that has been at this club for years and i for one do not want the play offs as i have no doubt in the big games we will bottle it.

I am sure we will plunder through to the end of the season and be flat track bullys again and probably make the playoffs but these players have shown in the last month that as the 'business end' of the season approaches, when the pressure is on, they are not up to it and unfortunately Darren Moore may well be the one who suffers at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 01, 2019, 10:12:16 PM
Did DM give a post match interview in Sky, I switched off. If so what did he say?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mig on March 01, 2019, 10:12:26 PM
The bloke looks frightened at the moment between his own principles and those of Jones. The pattern play looks severely disjointed because the midfield nor current formation suits us

Moore should be criticised for hanging Tosin out to dry. Such poor judgement and player management skills.

This is much more likely the case than the idea that Jones is solely to blame for everything.

I think Moore is mostly restricting Jones's attacking style, but then compromising by allowing the team to play out from the back which causes us problems. Right now the football is neither solid defensively nor threatening going forward.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Aztech on March 01, 2019, 10:15:49 PM
Did DM give a post match interview in Sky, I switched off. If so what did he say?

Usual rubbish as expected, we lost because we conceded an early goal
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 01, 2019, 10:17:04 PM
This is much more likely the case than the idea that Jones is solely to blame for everything.

I think Moore is mostly restricting Jones's attacking style, but then compromising by allowing the team to play out from the back which causes us problems. Right now the football is neither solid defensively nor threatening going forward.
Should Jones be allowed to take control of the team?
This is down to upper management.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Smethwickender93 on March 01, 2019, 10:17:41 PM
See us out till the end of the season, blend some youth in and get Harper signed up.

The board have got 4 months to plan our next manager
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 01, 2019, 10:23:14 PM
Two things guaranteed as soon as available Brunt and Morrison return! , yes Moore is so predictable, I can call that with confidence.
He is also bloody clueless
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on March 01, 2019, 10:25:57 PM
Two things guaranteed as soon as available Brunt and Morrison return! , yes Moore is so predictable, I can call that with confidence.
He is also bloody clueless

To be fair they have been available for last couple of games, just not selected, I guess that will change for next week. Is it for the better ? not for me. The one in ten Morrison can offer something but the other 9 games he offers little, Brunt has to be out wide or on the bench, nowhere near the middle.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 01, 2019, 10:27:05 PM
See us out till the end of the season, blend some youth in and get Harper signed up.

The board have got 4 months to plan our next manager
Harper was embarrassing today, gave the ball away numerous times and never tracked back just shrugged his shoulders and felt sorry for himself. Even so he was the best of our midfieldrers . Livermore is pinching a living and to think that he has more England caps than Bomber and Cyrille gives me indegestion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mig on March 01, 2019, 10:31:21 PM
Should Jones be allowed to take control of the team?
This is down to upper management.

Yes, it is. Moore's audition for the job was to play pretty defensive and dour football. Grinded out results against some big teams but the home games against Palace and Swansea (where the expectancy was to go and attack) showed that he can't set up a team to do that.

In the championship - where we are meant to be a big fish - that obviously wouldn't cut it as teams can sit back and stifle us. Hence we go and get Jones. That was generally the sentiment amongst fans at the time (who were receptive to it too) so I imagine it was upper managements consensus as well. The problem is seemingly we are stuck between two mindsets and thus mastering neither, and in Barnes we have lost the one player good enough to carry us through games regardless.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: royhan on March 01, 2019, 10:36:02 PM
There's no room for sentiment in football. Time for Moore to go now while there is still some hope. If not we will regret it come May.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 01, 2019, 10:38:57 PM
Usual rubbish as expected, we lost because we conceded an early goal

Thanks for that. Get rid of DM now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 01, 2019, 10:39:02 PM
There's no room for sentiment in football. Time for Moore to go now while there is still some hope. If not we will regret it come May.
I have now just been dragged into the "time to change" camp.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 01, 2019, 10:41:11 PM
Our board won't sack him as it would cost them money, Pardew the worst manager we have ever had left by mutual consent, he was embarrassed into leaving.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 01, 2019, 10:46:06 PM
Our board won't sack him as it would cost them money, Pardew the worst manager we have ever had left by mutual consent, he was embarrassed into leaving.
No. It is because they only look at to the bean counters rather than what will take us forward.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on March 01, 2019, 10:50:33 PM
Did DM give a post match interview in Sky, I switched off. If so what did he say?

The one on the official twitter he goes on (yet again) about picking the bones out of it. He offers no deep insight into what went wrong, because he doesn't know. His tactics are school boy and he lacks a deep understanding of the game.

We do have the best squad in the league, but they are being mismanaged week in week out.

I actually regret buying my Ipswich ticket now. They're bottom, we're going to get battered.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 01, 2019, 10:55:28 PM
The one on the official twitter he goes on (yet again) about picking the bones out of it. He offers no deep insight into what went wrong, because he doesn't know. His tactics are school boy and he lacks a deep understanding of the game.


We do have the best squad in the league,
 but they are being mismanaged week in week out.

I actually regret buying my Ipswich ticket now. They're bottom, we're going to get battered.
You cannot seriously claim that you have just watched the best squad in the league!!! Not in green and yellow anyway. Stevie Wonder couldn't coach the best team in the league to play that bad.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 01, 2019, 10:57:25 PM
The one on the official twitter he goes on (yet again) about picking the bones out of it. He offers no deep insight into what went wrong, because he doesn't know. His tactics are school boy and he lacks a deep understanding of the game.

We do have the best squad in the league, but they are being mismanaged week in week out.

I actually regret buying my Ipswich ticket now. They're bottom, we're going to get battered.
utter garbage lacks a deep understanding of the game? So you have a better understanding do you? So why aren't you a coach? If you don't want to go against Ipswich sell your ticket or give it to someone who would love to go and support the club but can't afford it. And if you think we have the best squad in the league you and all the others who think that are seriously deluded.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 01, 2019, 10:58:43 PM
I am now going to uposet a lot.
Although as we know he came from Handswoth (on our borders), didn't he support the vile lot from Witton?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 01, 2019, 11:01:08 PM
I am now going to uposet a lot.
Although as we know he came from Handswoth (on our borders), didn't he support the vile lot from Witton?
Who gives a pooh?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 01, 2019, 11:02:25 PM
Just seen his interview on twitter to the official club page an some comments made to Matt Wilson from e and s. Utter garbage.

He's just a football equivalent of the 'Great Zoltar' machine from the film 'Big'. Regurgitating cliche after cliche from a selection of 15 pre-written phrases
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 01, 2019, 11:05:15 PM
What do you want him to do? Come out and say I have no backing from the club and all our players are rubbish!!?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 01, 2019, 11:05:29 PM
Just seen his interview on twitter to the official club page an some comments made to Matt Wilson from e and s. Utter garbage.

He's just a football equivalent of the 'Great Zoltar' machine from the film 'Big'. Regurgitating cliche after cliche from a selection of 15 pre-written phrases
ala Pulis
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 01, 2019, 11:05:38 PM
Yes, it is. Moore's audition for the job was to play pretty defensive and dour football. Grinded out results against some big teams but the home games against Palace and Swansea (where the expectancy was to go and attack) showed that he can't set up a team to do that.

In the championship - where we are meant to be a big fish - that obviously wouldn't cut it as teams can sit back and stifle us. Hence we go and get Jones. That was generally the sentiment amongst fans at the time (who were receptive to it too) so I imagine it was upper managements consensus as well. The problem is seemingly we are stuck between two mindsets and thus mastering neither, and in Barnes we have lost the one player good enough to carry us through games regardless.
spot on mate, went to our first game against Bolton with an expectation of free flowing football from us but was shocked at what I saw, playing the ball out from back to three center halves who looked uncomfortable on the ball no movement in front of them so side ways passing and then long passes lumped forward to no one in particular. Role on 7 months and nothing seems to have changed.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 01, 2019, 11:07:58 PM
What do you want him to do? Come out and say I have no backing from the club and all our players are rubbish!!?

No because he was backed. He's made some poor signings or at least approved them. I want him to do his job and take responsibility. I want him to develop half a footballing brain. The guys been in the game nearly all his life but you wouldn't believe it
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Aztech on March 01, 2019, 11:08:48 PM
What do you want him to do? Come out and say I have no backing from the club and all our players are rubbish!!?

I simply want him to be honest in his assessment and admit he got the formation and tactics wrong. Unfortunately given that he provided similar comments after the Sheffield United game I don’t think he has the ability to change things.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on March 01, 2019, 11:09:07 PM
utter garbage lacks a deep understanding of the game? So you have a better understanding do you? So why aren't you a coach? If you don't want to go against Ipswich sell your ticket or give it to someone who would love to go and support the club but can't afford it. And if you think we have the best squad in the league you and all the others who think that are seriously deluded.

I am a fully insured qualified member of the FA Coaches club and I do coach cheers mate.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 01, 2019, 11:11:53 PM
I am a fully insured qualified member of the FA Coaches club and I do coach cheers mate.
Good for you so why not apply for Darren's job then you can see how easy it is  ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 01, 2019, 11:12:56 PM
Hands up. I was hoping that he could be our Massiah.
He is not.
Time that we changed (mid course), and hope we can come out of the Sargasso sea of tanglement and rubbish
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggies_24 on March 01, 2019, 11:22:33 PM
He’s not learning from his mistakes, he’s come out and said he put Tosin in at lb because of his physicality Leeds aren’t a physical team they don’t pump balls into the box they play it on the floor with quick 1-2’s I can tell you that without doing in depth analysis. To play the same midfield 3 that got utterly overrun by Sheffield United last week is criminal surprise fin surprise the same happened tonight. Genuinely this season for the so called best squad in the league how many games have we really outplayed the opposition? I honestly think it’s about 5 halves of games (QPR second half, Milwall, Villa away, 2nd half Leeds home game, 2nd half Sheffield United away) the rest has been a mixture of urine poor or just about scraping through.

The mans playing the best forward we have at the club as a winger ffs, his inept tactics are clear for all too see.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 01, 2019, 11:23:01 PM
Is it time in the old music hall to say "Thank you, but good night"?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 01, 2019, 11:24:24 PM
I simply want him to be honest in his assessment and admit he got the formation and tactics wrong. Unfortunately given that he provided similar comments after the Sheffield United game I don’t think he has the ability to change things.
Leeds coach held his hands up after we spanked them at our ground but Moore just utters the same old garbage after match learn from mistakes and move on. We'll fans won't to know do you understand faults in game and what are you going to do to rectify them
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on March 01, 2019, 11:27:19 PM
Good for you so why not apply for Darren's job then you can see how easy it is  ;)

One day I'd love to be a league manager.

The thing is, bad managers don't always lose and good managers don't always win. But a good manager knows how to motivate the team, ensures they know what to do and has the ability to change things if they don't work. They learn from mistakes and are critical of themselves. Personally, I don't see any of this in DM. It isn't just tonight. It's been happening all season, but the wins have papered over the cracks and over the past few matches it has been highlighted.

If you look at our squad compared to others, we have numbers and we have PL and international experience throughout. That's why I believe we have the best squad.

You could see Leeds were hungry tonight. Their defender cheered when the ball went out for a goal kick towards the end. They wanted it, we weren't pumped at all. And they only played 3 days ago.

DM is very calm on the touchline and if he's like that before the match then the players will also be relaxed. It's a manager's job to motivate the team for battle.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 01, 2019, 11:31:12 PM
One day I'd love to be a league manager.

The thing is, bad managers don't always lose and good managers don't always win. But a good manager knows how to motivate the team, ensures they know what to do and has the ability to change things if they don't work. They learn from mistakes and are critical of themselves. Personally, I don't see any of this in DM. It isn't just tonight. It's been happening all season, but the wins have papered over the cracks and over the past few matches it has been highlighted.

If you look at our squad compared to others, we have numbers and we have PL and international experience throughout. That's why I believe we have the best squad.

You could see Leeds were hungry tonight. Their defender cheered when the ball went out for a goal kick towards the end. They wanted it, we weren't pumped at all. And they only played 3 days ago.

DM is very calm on the touchline and if he's like that before the match then the players will also be relaxed. It's a manager's job to motivate the team for battle.
Mogadom plays a part.
We need a man who is there and WANTS to win. Kick the water bottles etc.
It won't do his heart any good, but we need motivation and desire.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: EastYorksAlbion on March 01, 2019, 11:52:11 PM
If I was the chairman I'd make DM aware/remind him that we need promotion this season and he needs to change things as the last month has been poor.

If we fail to arrest this slump over the next few weeks (barring poor luck), I'd offer him an opportunity to step down back to either a coach or an assistant manager role for the remainder of the season, with the intention that he'll have another crack of the whip in the future when he's had some more time to learn under an experienced manager. This method should also minimise any fallout from players if they all want him to stay. If he doesn't wish to do so then make him aware we'll have to consider his position.

I did say before he was appointed that if he becomes manager, i'd like to see a clause added in as to he can step back into his old should he want to so we don't lose a promising manager. I still think he's got it in him, we just need promotion THIS season and we can't afford to lose out. He either needs to learn FAST now, or learn at his own pace as an AM/coach and step back up when the time is right.

Hopefully he gets everyone back on side with some great performances over the remainder of this month. I firmly believe will be great manager for us at some point, whether its now or in 5 years, but the longer this poor run goes on and the longer he seems to be missing out on obvious tactical shortfalls, the more I worry now might not be the right time.

I think that would be a great idea, my only question, and I don’t have an answer myself, is who would step in?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 02, 2019, 12:00:09 AM
I'd just get rid if it was me but Albion board are a different kettle of fish and owner has no interest in club so I'd say Darren s job is save even if we don't make play offs. Cloth will be cut accordingly in summer and he'll go again
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on March 02, 2019, 12:46:12 AM
He ain't going anywhere and rightly so.

Any club who sacks a manager at this stage while still fighting for promotion will fail  and deserve to fail
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on March 02, 2019, 12:47:07 AM
Still no hint of the players turning against him.

That is when the manager should go.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on March 02, 2019, 04:30:07 AM
I am now going to uposet a lot.
Although as we know he came from Handswoth (on our borders), didn't he support the vile lot from Witton?

I am struggling to see the relevance of this comment to be honest. You are pretty desperate to have a pop at Darren if you are resorting to this. A bit like your comment regarding our board and the fact that Ronnie Allen funded the transfer of the late great Cyrille Regis. I imagine the majority of that board are no longer with us, and the situation is probably not unique. From memory something similar happened at the vile a few years ago. Linking the board of 1977 to today’s board makes no sense.
The facts are that we were done by a very good youthful team. Lessons will hopefully be learned in due course. It is clearly apparent that you do not like Darren (even though you voted for him) but there is no need for some of your comments when we are on the losing end. Some folk just want him to fail full stop, and for the life of me I do not know why.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: colinmax on March 02, 2019, 06:03:08 AM
Apparently we lost to Sheffield Utd because we were tired after only 4 days rest from previous game yet Leeds were rampant after only 3 days rest.
Early in the season we scored goals for fun with Gayle in the middle and 2 fast wingers.
We have not scored in the last 2 games and have not got Gayle in the middle or even one fast winger last night.
Why was Murphy on the bench and not used?At half time the game was lost if we did not score at least two goals so why did we not move Gayle and bring Murphy on?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Pelada on March 02, 2019, 06:21:31 AM
I can understand why watching a midfield pairing of Barry and Livermore could indicate “tired performances” though.

We need more energy and pace in the midfield- one or the other (Barry
/Livermore at best )

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie38 on March 02, 2019, 06:43:47 AM
Out thought and clearly struggles to motivate the players on the big occasions. For a former defender he can't organise a backline or identify a poor keeper which we have I'm afraid. Throw that in with questionable substitutions and questionable timings of substitutions and it leads to one conclusion I'm afraid. I can't wait for this season to end I can't see us going up and I'd sack him in the summer when our place in the championship is confirmed. Who I'd get as a replacement I don't know. I'd be half tempted by Appleton. I wanted him in the summer. Knows the club and wouldn't want to try to be everybody's friend like DM.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wbarenno on March 02, 2019, 07:06:46 AM
Out thought and clearly struggles to motivate the players on the big occasions. For a former defender he can't organise a backline or identify a poor keeper which we have I'm afraid. Throw that in with questionable substitutions and questionable timings of substitutions and it leads to one conclusion I'm afraid. I can't wait for this season to end I can't see us going up and I'd sack him in the summer when our place in the championship is confirmed. Who I'd get as a replacement I don't know. I'd be half tempted by Appleton. I wanted him in the summer. Knows the club and wouldn't want to try to be everybody's friend like DM.

Appleton  :D you really think Appleton would do a better job then Darren Moore. Appleton. He can’t do anything in the lower leagues never mind with us in the championship
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on March 02, 2019, 07:09:15 AM
We have a Pulis lite squad but with coaches with delusions of Guardiola - a bad combination which was brushed over with some flattering results and with an early season goal glut. The business end of the season is showing what we are - a muddled project for a lovable rookie who favoured defensive organisation last year but has completely changed, pushed (lead?) by Jones  who is a hungry idealistic coach beside and who thinks he is still coaching Belgium.

This all looks so inevitable now. If Darren had kept to his core principles of a well organised, strong team without the attempt at continental frills , I'm pretty sure he would have been more successful this season.

My prediction is we will limp into the play offs somehow but then fade out badly because we're just so open and lack ball player midfielders and pace.  Plus Moore / Jones have fallen into the trap of others in the past of playing Gayle out wide which doesn't work and nulifies one of our only goal threats these days.  Painful and frustrating .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie38 on March 02, 2019, 07:13:14 AM
Appleton  :D you really think Appleton would do a better job then Darren Moore. Appleton. Ant do anything in the lower leagues never mind with us in the championship

Who would you suggest then? I wanted Dean Smith in the summer say what you want with Vila now they have a awful side now but he will get them going next year. With a decent squad at our disposal I think he would of been good for us this year.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Blowee on March 02, 2019, 07:23:10 AM
Leeds coach held his hands up after we spanked them at our ground but Moore just utters the same old garbage after match learn from mistakes and move on. We'll fans won't to know do you understand faults in game and what are you going to do to rectify them
Totally agree. I never think it's right when managers blame individual players or make other excuses but I think sometimes they should hold their hands up and say I got it wrong. This is one thing that disappoints me about Big Dave as a manager. I would expect him to have the humility to admit when his tactics and selection aren't working.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on March 02, 2019, 07:42:32 AM
Does he realise his selections and tactics don't suit our players? He keeps persisting with them?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 02, 2019, 07:51:28 AM
Finally, we are beginning to see sense after last night.


I have woke up and had to check the line up again as I’m sure  DM played a right footed centre half at left back. He hung Tosin out to dry last night.

No wingers our outlet when we had the ball and Gayle out wide again. Pathetic performance and 2-0 down at half time and makes NO changes at half time.

That performance by Darren Moore last night looked we hand picked somebody out of the crowd and asked them to pick the team and and tactics.

Utterly embarrassing.  We will limp into the play offs and lose to majority of them over 2 legs. Then require a manager who is passionate, wants to win, but has a football brain and looks to re-build the squad over 4/5 years.

Complete joke last night.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on March 02, 2019, 08:23:54 AM
We have a Pulis lite squad but with coaches with delusions of Guardiola - a bad combination which was brushed over with some flattering results and with an early season goal glut. The business end of the season is showing what we are - a muddled project for a lovable rookie who favoured defensive organisation last year but has completely changed, pushed (lead?) by Jones  who is a hungry idealistic coach beside and who thinks he is still coaching Belgium.

This all looks so inevitable now. If Darren had kept to his core principles of a well organised, strong team without the attempt at continental frills , I'm pretty sure he would have been more successful this season.

My prediction is we will limp into the play offs somehow but then fade out badly because we're just so open and lack ball player midfielders and pace.  Plus Moore / Jones have fallen into the trap of others in the past of playing Gayle out wide which doesn't work and nulifies one of our only goal threats these days.  Painful and frustrating .

How do you know what his core principles are? (If they are to be well organised and strong that’s very simple and very Pulis like at its essence).

Hoping his beliefs are from the 7 successful games, rather than 40 not so is wishful thinking. As is blaming Jones. Looking for any excuse but to question DM as he’s such a nice guy.

Any suggestion of him stepping back to a coach is ridiculous too. That should not and thankfully will not happen. He may return to the club in a role one day, but it won’t be immediate.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kris_boing on March 02, 2019, 08:39:27 AM
I think it was too soon for him to get the big job. Should have been an assistant for a while. He is so naive it's unbelievable.

I didn't fancy us to get promoted this season purely because I thought we'd lose more players at the start of the season. But we kept the likes of JRod, Phillips, Gibbs, Dawson and Hegazi who I was certain would be sold.

The players stayed so this squad together with the additions and kids is good enough for promotion. It's the tactics, defensive organisation, p*****g about with it at the back from Johnstone and the criminal use of Gayle out wide that's going to cost us promotion.

Whether it is or isn't Jones' influence Big Dave has had all the time in the world to see what the rest of us have seen all season and that these tactics have consistently cost us points.

That naivety is going to cost us promotion and then we have missed our best chance of getting back up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on March 02, 2019, 08:48:12 AM
I do wonder if we hadn’t had Harvey Barnes, whether DM would have made it this far
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on March 02, 2019, 09:02:39 AM
If we fail to beat Ipswich at home then there really is no hope for the rest of the season.  It will be down to the Board whether they want to make a change within the 2 week international break which is the perfect time.  You are looking at a 2 month window to determine 3 promotion places.

At least with a change we would have some hope of a tactical plan.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kris_boing on March 02, 2019, 09:17:43 AM
I don't think he's in any danger of the sack. He's a long term project with a view to bringing through the kids whichever league we are in.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 02, 2019, 09:25:05 AM
Anyone that reads my comments will know I do not rate DM at all as a manager but I think it would be silly to sack him now when we are into the final hurdle and someone comes in who don’t know a lot about the players etc at a critical time of the season.

Automatic has now well and truely gone so it’s just about hanging onto a play off position now and hope for the best.

Failure in the play offs though and he has to go the very next day.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 02, 2019, 09:25:54 AM
I don't think he's in any danger of the sack. He's a long term project with a view to bringing through the kids whichever league we are in.

Which worries me greatly. We are going to be in for many years of suffering.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on March 02, 2019, 09:28:54 AM
We are facing the worst team in the league next at home.  If we don't win how can anyone make a case for performing well in the play offs (if we get there)?

And we have won once at home in the league in 4 months.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 02, 2019, 09:29:46 AM
I don't think he's in any danger of the sack. He's a long term project with a view to bringing through the kids whichever league we are in.

Precisely this.

You do not sack managers at this stage of the season as you approach the final furlongs

To sack him would be unbelievably stupid. Counter productive.

The fact we are talking about a sacking - despite our reasonable league positioning reflects poorly on us in my view
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 02, 2019, 09:42:39 AM
Precisely this.

You do not sack managers at this stage of the season as you approach the final furlongs

To sack him would be unbelievably stupid. Counter productive.

The fact we are talking about a sacking - despite our reasonable league positioning reflects poorly on us in my view


He shouldn’t be sacked but I’m confused why you find it a poor reflection on fans for discussing it??

Last night was a complete embarrassment and he has got away with it for so long due to it being a poor division really. I mean come on, there is no stand out quality team and we are still in the top 6 due to that and the fact we still have majority of the squad together and the best striker in the league in Gayle.

I just do not know or cannot get my head around why this man is still being protected.

1) plays a right footed centre half at left back
2) no wide players on the pitch despite us set up to play on the counter
3) the best striker in the league playing left wing
4) no changes at half time despite a pathetic first half

Just let that sink in for a bit. That proves to me someone is in charge who does not know the basics of football.

Automatics is a right off let’s jusy hope for some luck in the play offs and if it don’t happen then he just has to go.

Not good enough at this level.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on March 02, 2019, 09:51:17 AM
he won't be sacked and probably shouldn't be whilst the play offs are achievable.
but I wouldn't be overly bothered if he was or Jones was, something not quite right in this partnership.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 02, 2019, 09:54:12 AM
Well it isn’t a poor reflection isn’t it?

There’s a reasonable chance of promotion - be that automatic or play offs

And we’re bed wetting about wanting him sacked as we approach the final furlongs

Not denying that some errors have been made - in particular last night, but it’s now down to Moore to correct those.

Managers make mistakes - but until there’s mutiny in the stands, our form severely drops off & those players no longer back him, then any talk of sackings is severely premature
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 02, 2019, 10:08:43 AM
Well it isn’t a poor reflection isn’t it?

There’s a reasonable chance of promotion - be that automatic or play offs

And we’re bed wetting about wanting him sacked as we approach the final furlongs

Not denying that some errors have been made - in particular last night, but it’s now down to Moore to correct those.

Managers make mistakes - but until there’s mutiny in the stands, our form severely drops off & those players no longer back him, then any talk of sackings is severely premature

Well when reflecting you have to look at the position the club is at in the table and compare that I suppose to the quality of the resources the manager has (the squad).

I wouod say we are 6-9 points behind where we should be taking into account the above. That may not seem like a lot but in reality and this stage of the season that is huge.

Managers do make mistakes but it’s how you correct them that makes you a better manager. DM continuously takes way too long to make substitutions in order to change the outcome of a football match. He continuously sticks with a certain plan for far too long which inevitably is going to cost us such as the 3 at the back, and now a huge problem is playing your best striker out wide left. Everyone else can see it, I have just watched Keith Andrews and Jimmy Flloyd saying they can see it but why can’t he???

We are 4th and now 95% chance of not finishing in the top two because of Darren Moore. Nobody else.

Let’s just hope we have some luck and go up through the play offs because if we are in this league next season we are fuc*ed.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on March 02, 2019, 10:17:44 AM
We can't sack him right now. He picked a side up that were on their knees and had us challenging for automatic promotion up until a few weeks ago. The other 2 relegated sides have struggled to build any momentum but Moore has found a way of halting the slide from the previous 18 months and has at least given us a shot at the play offs.

If we sack him now, it would be grossly unfair and would be hard to justify, not to mention it would give certain journalists a chance to write more of their favourite virtue signalling articles.

That all said, if I was honest, I simply wouldn't back Moore to take us up either in the play offs, or have us challenging next season for the top 6 after the difficulties we would face this summer.

For everything he has as a leader, motivator and general good bloke, he isn't string with tactics, flexibility ot being able to change/adapt. We have had hardly any GREAT performances this year, instead relying on getting wins and draws thriugh sheer determination and individual bits of skill (mainly from Gayle, Barnes, Phillips and sometimes J-Rod).

We made our bed hiring him in the first place, we can't sack him now, however much I think he will fail this year.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on March 02, 2019, 10:24:42 AM
He needs to ditch the plan of getting us up with the old stagers then overhauling - that plan had some logic while we had a chance of automatic, but unless we win 9 or 10 of our final games that ones gone now.  We might as well give the home grown players a decent run - Field on the pitch with Harper, the others on the bench to come on instead of HRK, maybe give Montero and Murphy plenty of game time to see if we want to go for them longer term.  Don't mind if one of Barry/Brunt/Livermore is on the pitch to give a bit of experience, but don't overlaod the players with instructions, let them play football.  If we squeeze through the play-offs or not at least we'll know if they're going to be a good basis to build on for the future whatever division we're in.

I think he will probably be sacked if we don't go up, unless he is given 10-15 games to see how next season starts.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on March 02, 2019, 10:26:58 AM
Well it isn’t a poor reflection isn’t it?

There’s a reasonable chance of promotion - be that automatic or play offs

And we’re bed wetting about wanting him sacked as we approach the final furlongs

Not denying that some errors have been made - in particular last night, but it’s now down to Moore to correct those.

Managers make mistakes - but until there’s mutiny in the stands, our form severely drops off & those players no longer back him, then any talk of sackings is severely premature

He won’t be sacked. I’m not a fan but I agree he shouldn’t be either.

The position alone shouldn’t be reason not to question things though.  The manager and his assistant said themselves the aim was 100 goals and winning the league, so 10 points off and 4th is not good enough.

In most leagues a manager who those aims sitting 4th would be in trouble. The fact we have a play off scenario that could save the day in a lot of sense is very fickle. To end up in scanario where one game will change if a tenure is deemed success or failure is fickle.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on March 02, 2019, 12:04:10 PM
We can't sack him now at this stage of the season, if we were an aeroplane taking off we have already passed V1. But the whole set up needs revaluating in the summer.
There were rumours Darren was to be offered a new contract, i hope not, this would be foolhardy in the extreme, a manager who has achieved nothing with arguably the best squad in the division.
But it wouldn't surprise me if our board extended his contract, they did with Pulis, and it saves them spending money on a proper manager.
I can understand fans wanting Darren to do well with us, and give him time to learn. But the time for learning in football is brutally short, and Darren doesn't seem to learn from even his most basic mistakes.

Sorry, it's out for me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on March 02, 2019, 02:24:40 PM
I do wonder if we hadn’t had Harvey Barnes, whether DM would have made it this far

Without Gayle and Barnes we wouldn’t even be in the top half of the league. Tactics were a shambles yesterday, as were the players.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on March 02, 2019, 02:27:17 PM
Well when reflecting you have to look at the position the club is at in the table and compare that I suppose to the quality of the resources the manager has (the squad).

I wouod say we are 6-9 points behind where we should be taking into account the above. That may not seem like a lot but in reality and this stage of the season that is huge.

Managers do make mistakes but it’s how you correct them that makes you a better manager. DM continuously takes way too long to make substitutions in order to change the outcome of a football match. He continuously sticks with a certain plan for far too long which inevitably is going to cost us such as the 3 at the back, and now a huge problem is playing your best striker out wide left. Everyone else can see it, I have just watched Keith Andrews and Jimmy Flloyd saying they can see it but why can’t he???

We are 4th and now 95% chance of not finishing in the top two because of Darren Moore. Nobody else.

Let’s just hope we have some luck and go up through the play offs because if we are in this league next season we are fuc*ed.

Great post. Playing Gayle on the left is driving me insane. Huge self inflicted own goal whilst man bun skips around in the middle.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 02, 2019, 02:38:27 PM
Unfortunately we are being served rubbish football.
One of the last coaches (Pulis) served us rubbish fooball and a lot of fans stayed away.

I feel the main thing he has to do is to have a game plan or two and play players in their best positions.
Not trying to shoe horn square pegs into round holes (OK...too many metaphores).
Darren has to instill pride and determination in the players.
He has to motivate them before the kick off and again at the beginning of the second half.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on March 02, 2019, 05:15:51 PM
He cant even do the obvious,Tosim at leftback lol,Gayle on the wing,all the pace on the bench,there is still no cohesion in the team,the most disturbing factors are he will only play the youngsters when is hand is forced and tactically he is outthought in virtually every game by the opposition manager,i really think that if we had the manager of any of the other top 10 clubs in this division we would have walked this league
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Nice1Cyrille on March 02, 2019, 05:56:10 PM
I think he has done well but not great in his first management role. Pride was somewhat restored at the end of last  season and great expectations laid for this season. That being said we are supposed to have the best team on paper in the division. I don't agree with that statement as I think there are too many has beens and few quality players in our squad.

If we make the playoffs its not a bad season, if we don't go up in the playoffs then its a financial disaster. Staying down will see us lose  a number of starters and loan players going back to their teams will make things worse.

Anything but promotion and DM is gone. The team will need a complete rebuild and a new head coach.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Cunningham56 on March 02, 2019, 06:01:59 PM
I really think some fans need to look at the bigger picture.

In the last four years our managers have been; Pepe Mel, Alan Irvine, Tony Pullis, and Alan Pardew. Just looking at those names makes me shudder. Jesus christ what a s**tshow. Those last two clowns especially ruined our club and made many fans fall out of love with the Albion. Big Dave has single handedly reignited the fans passion again and made us proud to be Baggies.

He's the nicest man in football, and one of own. This alone isn't reason to back him regardless, but it's his first management role and he deserves more of a chance. I'd rather give Moore a few seasons to rebuild us fully than hire some other clown on the cheap and fail.

If we make the playoffs, he will have my support whatever happens.

Oh by the way, if we sacked Pardew a month earlier then Darren Moore would have kept us up last season. Fact!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on March 02, 2019, 07:04:10 PM
I really think some fans need to look at the bigger picture.

In the last four years our managers have been; Pepe Mel, Alan Irvine, Tony Pullis, and Alan Pardew. Just looking at those names makes me shudder. Jesus christ what a s**tshow. Those last two clowns especially ruined our club and made many fans fall out of love with the Albion. Big Dave has single handedly reignited the fans passion again and made us proud to be Baggies.

He's the nicest man in football, and one of own. This alone isn't reason to back him regardless, but it's his first management role and he deserves more of a chance. I'd rather give Moore a few seasons to rebuild us fully than hire some other clown on the cheap and fail.

If we make the playoffs, he will have my support whatever happens.

Oh by the way, if we sacked Pardew a month earlier then Darren Moore would have kept us up last season. Fact!
'Tis not a fact, it is your opinion

Reading a post like this always makes me think why we are where we are, as a club and in the bigger scheme as a country
There are clubs out there (Real Madrid) that have won the league and sacked the manager , I'm not saying they are right but they made a decision because they want better....always better
We sometimes don't make a decision, and the reason is because we are ok with...ok

The "fact" is there are many voicing an opinion that Moore has made many mistakes and showed repetitive naivety
the squad we have/had should be top imho we have probably the best wing backs , wingers and fox in the box (if he was allowed by the box)
Sorry to say I'd be considering a change
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Cunningham56 on March 03, 2019, 01:25:41 AM
In general, Darren Moore is doing a decent job. Especially for a first-time manager who is effectively learning on the job. We aren't that special. There are so many big clubs in the championship, a lot of sleeping giants. Our fans just have modern memories of us being a yo-yo team in the mid 2000s so think we had a god given right of an instant return.

Teams rarely go straight back up, it's such a difficult league to navigate. Better teams than us with more experienced managers have failed.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/championship/10826050/How-often-do-relegated-Premier-League-clubs-bounce-straight-back-from-the-Championship.html

In the last 28 seasons; We looked at the records of all the teams that had just been relegated from the Premier League/First Division. How many of them bounced straight back the following season?

(https://secure.i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02909/bounce-1_2909096a.gif)

If we got automatic promotion it would be great job done by Darren Moore. It's likely we'll be in the play-offs which is still okay, albeit probably the minimum requirement to keep his job. So he deserves another season either way.

The owners need to go, not the manager! Lai makes Peace look like a big spender
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Westie on March 03, 2019, 08:13:47 AM
Are the Derby fans calling for Frank Lampard’s head? They lost 4-0 to the Vile so Lampard must surely be sacked.

Who would you have replace DM? How would you know that another manager would be guaranteed to better what Big Dave has done? Sure, he has made mistakes but who doesn’t? How many players miss sitters, do they get sacked immediately? Really, I think anyone calling for Moore to get the boot should be locked in a dark room for a while to think about reality.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on March 03, 2019, 08:21:41 AM
Are the Derby fans calling for Frank Lampard’s head? They lost 4-0 to the Vile so Lampard must surely be sacked.

Who would you have replace DM? How would you know that another manager would be guaranteed to better what Big Dave has done? Sure, he has made mistakes but who doesn’t? How many players miss sitters, do they get sacked immediately? Really, I think anyone calling for Moore to get the boot should be locked in a dark room for a while to think about reality.

Thanks for the common sense Westie, I thought it was just me😖
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on March 03, 2019, 08:47:46 AM
Thanks for the common sense Westie, I thought it was just me😖

The Forum's becoming quite dark at the moment isn't it?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on March 03, 2019, 09:29:57 AM
Darren Moore is our 5th permanent manager since 2014 he is only the 2nd of those 5 to make it past 30 games. During those 5 years we hired 2 coaches with a clearly defined style of play Mel and Pulis. Plainly our squad was not geared up to play Mel's high pressing game and the outcome is well documented. Even during Pulis' two and a half years in charge we still persisted in hiring players that were never going to fit in to his style of play.

Neither Irvine nor Pardew survived long enough to have any profound influence on the squad but they didn't have any particular style of play, which in part led to their downfall.

Before this season I didn't know for sure what Moore's style was my biggest fear was that he would be some sort of Pulis clone. That fear has been allayed but he is still trying to teach the elephant to dance in that the back four (the Centre Backs in particular) and the midfield would probably be more comfortable playing Pulisball. The only problem is we do not have a target man, and as such we are not geared up for the percentage game.

At some point as a club and that includes the fans we have to back a Head Coach. There is no point in copying what Real Madrid do or any of the other giants European or English football because they can only do what they do because they have money to waste on hiring and firing managers and turning over their squads. We have to tread a different path.


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 03, 2019, 10:19:48 AM
Are the Derby fans calling for Frank Lampard’s head? They lost 4-0 to the Vile so Lampard must surely be sacked.

Who would you have replace DM? How would you know that another manager would be guaranteed to better what Big Dave has done? Sure, he has made mistakes but who doesn’t? How many players miss sitters, do they get sacked immediately? Really, I think anyone calling for Moore to get the boot should be locked in a dark room for a while to think about reality.
Derby fans are used to fading at the end of each season in recent times.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on March 03, 2019, 10:24:29 AM
He is an head coach in name only. He doesn't seem to understand the simple basics of the game, and it has been suggested that Jones makes the decisions. What kind of head coach is that?

Keep him until the end of the season and then say thanks but no thanks.
There is a difference beteen someone learning the ropes and someone who will never learn if they are in the job for one season or twenty.
We have to think about the club and what is best for it.
Darren Moore is a lovely bloke, but he will never be a top coach in any division. I think assistant at lower league level his more his cup of tea.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on March 03, 2019, 10:37:41 AM
Who do We get in the summer though ?!

The summer is way to early too. Has to be given till January
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on March 03, 2019, 10:38:12 AM
He simply has to have another summer transfer window
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 03, 2019, 10:43:04 AM
I simply do not think he has the motivational skills to drive this squad of plodders. I was at Q.P.R where we had massive incentive to gain 3 points, and produced a performance that was totally lacking in drive. I watched him stand on the line and do nothing.
It was only in the last 10 minutes when the players realised they only had ten men to play against that they really drove on and got the winner.
On Friday night after that debacle of a performance, his opening gambit was "after giving them a goal within a minute we had a mountain to climb" , well feck me didn't we have another 89 + minutes to recover the situation.
If he feels comfortable in making those kind of comments to his team, and it's supporters then he is the wrong man for the job.
We now have three games before the international break, and we needto, and should be capable of winning all three.
Between now and then Leeds play Sheff Utd, and there is the Sheffield derby today too.
We have 11 games to make up 7 points and it can be done, we must not give up.
If we make a total cock-up of these next two home games, then he should go without a doubt, we already know the willingness to throw the towel in of some of our players.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hardtobeat on March 03, 2019, 10:46:19 AM
Who do We get in the summer though ?!

The summer is way to early too. Has to be given till January
Who would be dependent on those charged with recruitment. Had Norwich fans heard of or considered Farke before his appointment
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on March 03, 2019, 10:49:19 AM
He is an head coach in name only. He doesn't seem to understand the simple basics of the game, and it has been suggested that Jones makes the decisions. What kind of head coach is that?

Keep him until the end of the season and then say thanks but no thanks.
There is a difference beteen someone learning the ropes and someone who will never learn if they are in the job for one season or twenty.
We have to think about the club and what is best for it.
Darren Moore is a lovely bloke, but he will never be a top coach in any division. I think assistant at lower league level his more his cup of tea.
So because someone somewhere once suggested that Jones makes the decisions, that makes it a fact?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wollastonbaggie on March 03, 2019, 10:55:26 AM
Those calling for DM to be sacked are displaying tunnel vision in my opinion. He's not the only factor in our current situation. Everyone at the club having any input into the running of the club, and specifically the team, has to share the blame as do the players themselves. Where we are now is not just the result of decisions made by DM and just replacing him, at sometime before the start of next season will leave the next head coach still struggling with a lack of money, and an ageing team of loanees (if he's replaced soon)  wantaways, and generally players who aren't good enough-assuming they haven't already gone of course by the time next season starts. Perhaps DM recognises that he is amongst those who need to learn from the recent defeats and will do something about the way we play. He's had a baptism of fire and has probably coped as well as most would have done and who else, (of those we could hope to attract!) would have brought a guarantee of success?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on March 03, 2019, 10:58:31 AM
Who would be dependent on those charged with recruitment. Had Norwich fans heard of or considered Farke before his appointment

That would be the same Farke that many Norwich fans were giving it 2 or 3 games to turn things round at the beginning of this season.

If we fire Moore I would honestly despair.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 03, 2019, 11:03:17 AM
I don’t care that he was an ex-player. Makes no difference to me. I also don’t care what he says to the press. I work with the media and what’s said to the press can have no relevance at all to what might be said amongst closed doors. Suggestions that Jones is running the tactics side is just speculation.

I do care about having a club to be proud of with a positive playing style and I think we have those two things now.

Clearly Moore is learning, it can definitely be argued that in some cases he isn’t learning from his mistakes, yet he has done a lot to demonstrate that he can learn and he has answered a lot of criticisms.

He doesn’t play the youngsters - he does now.
Three at the back doesn’t work - he switched to a 4
His subs are appalling - generally speaking I think they have
Brunt can’t play midfield - seems he is now bench at best
He has his favourites and only plays his mates - not sure of the evidence for that any longer

Then there’s the playing from the back issue. In my mind the issue isn’t the centre halves or the goalkeeper where this falls apart, it’s the midfield. While we have plenty of options they are all pretty similar. We never look sharp or inventive enough in that area and that’s where I think the squad inherited from Pulis is the issue, and also why I don’t think it’s the best squad in the league.

Morrison, if fit, would probably help the issue but fundamentally we don’t have clever midfielders who have better movement, can find a pass and that’s where the issue is for me, rather than about the defence.

Largely speaking I am still very happy with where we are and I think Moore is doing a decent job. Yes there have been some frustrations but for me it would be nuts to give him 50 or so games, let him learn, and then dump him and lose the opportunity to capitalise on everything he has learned. Whatever league we are in next year I think he should stay, get a few more signings in to help him make his system work. If it fails by Christmas next year then fair enough, it may be time for him to go.

When Pullis was manager for the first couple of years there was plenty of comment on this forum that he needed multiple transfer windows before he could call it his side and we could properly judge him.

Maybe we should afford Moore the same time and patience. He deserves it more than Pulis ever did.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on March 03, 2019, 11:26:15 AM
Suggestions that Jones is running the tactics side is just speculation.

I would hope it's more than just speculation.

DM would be crazy to ask GJ to join his coaching team & then ignore his advice.

Allegedly, James Shan also has a big part to play in determining tactics.

It's a team effort.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hardtobeat on March 03, 2019, 11:28:30 AM
Keep reading /hearing that  he is learning , developing etc where are the example!s please?  The introduction of the likes of Harper Field etc took a long time and was probably helped by fan pressure. Are we really any better now than we were in September /October? Defensively we are IMO still as poor and  still making basic mistakes, the m/f is still based around slow one dimensional players and we cannot possibly be as good up front with our best finisher playing out of position along with the loss of Barnes so am scratching my head furiously to see any long term improvement ??
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 03, 2019, 11:37:49 AM
Keep reading /hearing that  he is learning , developing etc where are the example!s please?  The introduction of the likes of Harper Field etc took a long time and was probably helped by fan pressure. Are we really any better now than we were in September /October? Defensively we are IMO still as poor and  still making basic mistakes, the m/f is still based around slow one dimensional players and we cannot possibly be as good up front with our best finisher playing out of position along with the loss of Barnes so am scratching my head furiously to see any long term improvement ??

I listed some of the improvements in my post above. Defensively we have improved though I admit the last few games have seen a lapse. The problem with the midfield is the squad as there aren’t very many options. Phillips and Morrison were the key to a more dynamic midfield but neither are reliable.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 03, 2019, 11:38:51 AM
I would hope it's more than just speculation.

DM would be crazy to ask GJ to join his coaching team & then ignore his advice.

Allegedly, James Shan also has a big part to play in determining tactics.

It's a team effort.

I agree that’s how it should be and that’s how I think it is. My point was addressing the speculation that Moore has no idea what’s going on and it’s Jones that’s running the show.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on March 03, 2019, 12:22:27 PM
I don’t care that he was an ex-player. Makes no difference to me. I also don’t care what he says to the press. I work with the media and what’s said to the press can have no relevance at all to what might be said amongst closed doors. Suggestions that Jones is running the tactics side is just speculation.

I do care about having a club to be proud of with a positive playing style and I think we have those two things now.

Clearly Moore is learning, it can definitely be argued that in some cases he isn’t learning from his mistakes, yet he has done a lot to demonstrate that he can learn and he has answered a lot of criticisms.

He doesn’t play the youngsters - he does now.
Three at the back doesn’t work - he switched to a 4
His subs are appalling - generally speaking I think they have
Brunt can’t play midfield - seems he is now bench at best
He has his favourites and only plays his mates - not sure of the evidence for that any longer

Then there’s the playing from the back issue. In my mind the issue isn’t the centre halves or the goalkeeper where this falls apart, it’s the midfield. While we have plenty of options they are all pretty similar. We never look sharp or inventive enough in that area and that’s where I think the squad inherited from Pulis is the issue, and also why I don’t think it’s the best squad in the league.

Morrison, if fit, would probably help the issue but fundamentally we don’t have clever midfielders who have better movement, can find a pass and that’s where the issue is for me, rather than about the defence.

Largely speaking I am still very happy with where we are and I think Moore is doing a decent job. Yes there have been some frustrations but for me it would be nuts to give him 50 or so games, let him learn, and then dump him and lose the opportunity to capitalise on everything he has learned. Whatever league we are in next year I think he should stay, get a few more signings in to help him make his system work. If it fails by Christmas next year then fair enough, it may be time for him to go.

When Pullis was manager for the first couple of years there was plenty of comment on this forum that he needed multiple transfer windows before he could call it his side and we could properly judge him.

Maybe we should afford Moore the same time and patience. He deserves it more than Pulis ever did.

Has been fit for a few weeks, in his own words "he can't get a look in". I guess he was as amazed as anyone when he was on the bench and then came on Friday.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on March 03, 2019, 12:59:44 PM
If we don’t go up next season, what will the expectation be?

We will bearly have a squad, and will need to cut our smaller piece of cloth accordingly so will DM have every excuse for us to finish mid table and for that to be considered doing well?

I just wonder when he will be required to meet a standard with some people, because to me the challenge for promotion just looks to become harder and harder and the excuses will always exist



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on March 03, 2019, 01:20:54 PM
Not sure how anyone can really seriously think about sacking DM !? He needs to finish the season at least. For me, I'm worried we don't seem to be evolving or developing a consistent way of playing or probably more likely that that the way of playing just doesn't suit the players we have (bit like Pepe Mel). I think Darren is being pushed outside of his comfort zone now and i personally hope he decides to make us more solid and introduce Morrison and Johansen for the run in (like a Fulham lite mudfield in front of Barry or Livermore). If he can sort out our awfully static midfield we at least have a chance because we have Phillips, JRod, Gayle and Murphy who can hurt teams.

We almost need ro become a Roy Hodgson team to get the best out of this squad I think. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wodenson46 on March 03, 2019, 01:30:19 PM
Bit worried about all the love in for Jimmy M. He has hardly ever shown regularly that he is an effective player for us. Some games he has seemed to be just what we need in the middle but has then disappeared into virtual obscurity for the next four or five. Best thing he has done for me, and for the team I believe was giving SB a slap. Surely we must have better options.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on March 03, 2019, 02:13:15 PM
I listed some of the improvements in my post above. Defensively we have improved though I admit the last few games have seen a lapse. The problem with the midfield is the squad as there aren’t very many options. Phillips and Morrison were the key to a more dynamic midfield but neither are reliable.
He's got about 12 midfielders/ widemen. that's more than enough on the wage bill.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on March 03, 2019, 02:31:39 PM
Has been fit for a few weeks, in his own words "he can't get a look in". I guess he was as amazed as anyone when he was on the bench and then came on Friday.
....and then proceeded to display why he hasn't been getting a look in. I'm afraid the days of sparkling performances have long gone for JM. He is mostly woeful these days.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on March 03, 2019, 03:14:03 PM
....and then proceeded to display why he hasn't been getting a look in. I'm afraid the days of sparkling performances have long gone for JM. He is mostly woeful these days.

Totally agree, should never have been offered this ridiculous new deal
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on March 03, 2019, 03:57:06 PM
If we don’t go up next season, what will the expectation be?

We will bearly have a squad, and will need to cut our smaller piece of cloth accordingly so will DM have every excuse for us to finish mid table and for that to be considered doing well?

I just wonder when he will be required to meet a standard with some people, because to me the challenge for promotion just looks to become harder and harder and the excuses will always exist

My view is that this football club should not be any lower than the top half of the Championship and most seasons we should be involved in the promotion shake up this is regardless of the parachute payments. The time to have an inquest is when we don't meet those expectations not when we are still in the mix.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on March 03, 2019, 04:48:16 PM
So because someone somewhere once suggested that Jones makes the decisions, that makes it a fact?

No, not at all. But i was talking to someone who is a big Moore fan and has had a meal with him. He said Moore doesn't make the decisions, Jones does.
Well he either takes the blame for the mind boggling tactics and subs, or he doesn't. If he doesn't why is he the head coach?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: colinmax on March 03, 2019, 04:52:26 PM
Generally the top teams are good because they have the best players and they play them in their best positions for optimum effect.
Harry Kane might be a good centre back but Spurs and England know he is a good striker so play him in that role.
We know Gayle is a good striker so why do we play him on the wing when he has not shown any particular ability in that position?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on March 03, 2019, 05:37:41 PM
No, not at all. But i was talking to someone who is a big Moore fan and has had a meal with him. He said Moore doesn't make the decisions, Jones does.
Well he either takes the blame for the mind boggling tactics and subs, or he doesn't. If he doesn't why is he the head coach?

That is a really simplistic interpretation of second hand information.

As Head Coach, DM has a responsibilty for all footballing decisions.

GJ has more experience than DM in the decision making process &, as I have said previously, DM would be foolish to ignore Jones's advice.



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on March 03, 2019, 05:44:18 PM
So they share the blame for the obvious mistakes?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on March 03, 2019, 06:50:06 PM
So they share the blame for the obvious mistakes?

In answer to your question, decision making is not about blame or mistakes: in a competitive environment, it's about making a judgement to give you an advantage for a positive outcome.

There are always a number of ways to achieve the outcome, some work, some don't.

I would say DM trusts GJ's & JS's judgement most times, but the responsibilty for the outcome always lies with DM
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on March 04, 2019, 04:08:25 PM
I think he should have a squad meeting this week and tell Harper and Field they start every game from now if fit, along with Murphy, Gayle and Phillips.  Montero, Tulloch and Edwards on the bench, Leko when fit.  Tora tora tora.

Tell the codgers (Barry, Brunt, Livermore, Morrison) they will be used sparingly to provide the experience.

Tell the "established pros" - Dawson,Hegazi, Rodriguez, Gibbs, that he would love them to buy into giving it a real go, and next season as well wherever we are, but that they will be allowed to go if we get decent offers - incentives to play for if they really want out.

If we can really do Ipswich there is till time to get some momentum going.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 04, 2019, 04:38:48 PM
I think he should have a squad meeting this week and tell Harper and Field they start every game from now if fit, along with Murphy, Gayle and Phillips.  Montero, Tulloch and Edwards on the bench, Leko when fit.  Tora tora tora.

Tell the codgers (Barry, Brunt, Livermore, Morrison) they will be used sparingly to provide the experience.

Tell the "established pros" - Dawson,Hegazi, Rodriguez, Gibbs, that he would love them to buy into giving it a real go, and next season as well wherever we are, but that they will be allowed to go if we get decent offers - incentives to play for if they really want out.

If we can really do Ipswich there is till time to get some momentum going.

like the positive outlook mate but its too late to get momentum going for an automatic finish. threw it away over the last two games and now requires us to win 9 out of the final 11 realistically and thats just not going to happen.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hunsletbaggie on March 04, 2019, 06:57:38 PM
    Just want to say thank you to Darren Moore for giving me one of the most torturous days I have had at work for a long time.
    I can take losing just as good as most people but Fridays debacle from team selection through to stupid tactics from the kick off and a torrent of stick and urine taking  from people at work today one person saying that we were the worst team he had seen at Elland rd this season has left me bewildered.
    I just hope now that Darren can galvanise the squad together and get some momentum going for our play-off push but I would rather us not make the play-offs at all than having to face another humiliation over two legs or a final by these Leeds  tw**ts now that would be too much to take.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on March 04, 2019, 07:49:21 PM
    Just want to say thank you to Darren Moore for giving me one of the most torturous days I have had at work for a long time.
    I can take losing just as good as most people but Fridays debacle from team selection through to stupid tactics from the kick off and a torrent of stick and urine taking  from people at work today one person saying that we were the worst team he had seen at Elland rd this season has left me bewildered.
    I just hope now that Darren can galvanise the squad together and get some momentum going for our play-off push but I would rather us not make the play-offs at all than having to face another humiliation over two legs or a final by these Leeds  tw**ts now that would be too much to take.

Wouldn't worry about that, I was told by a work colleague, not very long ago that we were that worst team he had seen at the Stadium of Light.
Also, weren't the Seals on here not so long ago boasting they would finish at least 10 points above us?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 04, 2019, 07:58:08 PM
Wouldn't worry about that, I was told by a work colleague, not very long ago that we were that worst team he had seen at the Stadium of Light.
Also, weren't the Seals on here not so long ago boasting they would finish at least 10 points above us?
Well they won't finish 10 points above us but don't be surprised if they play us in the play-offs.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on March 04, 2019, 08:31:17 PM
Well they won't finish 10 points above us but don't be surprised if they play us in the play-offs.

Wouldn't be surprised to see anybody in the upper half of the table in the play-offs

Traditionally, the successful play-off finalist, is the team with consistent winning form, none of the top teams are displaying that yet.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on March 05, 2019, 08:37:56 AM
Whatever anybody's thoughts are regarding performances/under performances, wouldn't it be great if everyone just got behind Darren Moore and the Albion between now and the end of the season? What a refreshing change that would make from the sometimes informed opinions and more often blind hysteria and child like rantings more commonly found on football forums.

COYB  8) .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dan87uk on March 05, 2019, 09:32:52 AM
I think he should have a squad meeting this week and tell Harper and Field they start every game from now if fit, along with Murphy, Gayle and Phillips.  Montero, Tulloch and Edwards on the bench, Leko when fit.  Tora tora tora.

Tell the codgers (Barry, Brunt, Livermore, Morrison) they will be used sparingly to provide the experience.

Tell the "established pros" - Dawson,Hegazi, Rodriguez, Gibbs, that he would love them to buy into giving it a real go, and next season as well wherever we are, but that they will be allowed to go if we get decent offers - incentives to play for if they really want out.

If we can really do Ipswich there is till time to get some momentum going.

Would love this to be the case, but don't see it happening.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on March 05, 2019, 09:47:31 AM
I think he should have a squad meeting this week and tell Harper and Field they start every game from now if fit, along with Murphy, Gayle and Phillips.  Montero, Tulloch and Edwards on the bench, Leko when fit.  Tora tora tora.

Tell the codgers (Barry, Brunt, Livermore, Morrison) they will be used sparingly to provide the experience.

Tell the "established pros" - Dawson,Hegazi, Rodriguez, Gibbs, that he would love them to buy into giving it a real go, and next season as well wherever we are, but that they will be allowed to go if we get decent offers - incentives to play for if they really want out.

If we can really do Ipswich there is till time to get some momentum going.

An Innovative and no doubt popular initiative it might be, but I’m not sure that it would be a positive move for team moral at this stage of the season. We need everyone pulling in the same direction
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 05, 2019, 10:00:15 AM
Whatever anybody's thoughts are regarding performances/under performances, wouldn't it be great if everyone just got behind Darren Moore and the Albion between now and the end of the season? What a refreshing change that would make from the sometimes informed opinions and more often blind hysteria and child like rantings more commonly found on football forums.

COYB  8) .
Would love this to be the case, but don't see it happening. :D ;)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 05, 2019, 10:05:00 AM
Whatever anybody's thoughts are regarding performances/under performances, wouldn't it be great if everyone just got behind Darren Moore and the Albion between now and the end of the season? What a refreshing change that would make from the sometimes informed opinions and more often blind hysteria and child like rantings more commonly found on football forums.

COYB  8) .

Not sure peoples opinions on a football forum is going to upset DM or maybe even be of interest to him in all honesty.

but he may learn a thing or two by reading them and taking note that Gayle out wide left and playing 4-3-3 at home isn't working.

Lets hope he has a read before saturday.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on March 05, 2019, 10:57:21 AM
Not sure peoples opinions on a football forum is going to upset DM or maybe even be of interest to him in all honesty.

but he may learn a thing or two by reading them and taking note that Gayle out wide left and playing 4-3-3 at home isn't working.

Lets hope he has a read before saturday.

I don't suppose it would no but then I never suggested such. I never stated you or anyone else can't have an opinion either. I just think it would make a refreshing change if people got behind him and the team between now and the end of the season. That is all.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 05, 2019, 10:58:40 AM
Always behind the team no matter how daft the team selection.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on March 05, 2019, 11:02:49 AM
Always behind the team no matter how daft the team selection.

My sentiments exactly, pity it doesn't always extend to enthusiastic support from all.

Let's make some noise and get behind the boys.

COYB  8) .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on March 05, 2019, 12:07:39 PM
I was going to say, I really don’t know what the problem is with our fans home support, it used to be very vociferous, but then I remembered the TP era, which slowly but surely demoralised swaths of fans, and perhaps it’s a hangover from that and fans finding it hard to forgive.

However, we are in a different era now and this head coach, his staff and probably most importantly, the team on the pitch need to feel and hear the 12th man.

COYB!!!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 05, 2019, 12:29:06 PM
Considering im a HSTH and been to 9 away games id say i do back my team and get behind them on a regular basis.
I think DM is not good enough, thats my opinion and as the season has progressed i believe my opinion is starting to look true. but i never boo or slag the team off at a game and  never would.

My continued support will be with DM and the team until the last game of the season. IF promotion is not achieved then DM has to go, simple as that really.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 05, 2019, 12:38:46 PM
Considering im a HSTH and been to 9 away games id say i do back my team and get behind them on a regular basis.
I think DM is not good enough, thats my opinion and as the season has progressed i believe my opinion is starting to look true. but i never boo or slag the team off at a game and  never would.

My continued support will be with DM and the team until the last game of the season. IF promotion is not achieved then DM has to go, simple as that really.
I'm a HSTH aswelll and have been to 7 away games what's that got to do with anything? Many others have the same attendance record but don't need to boast about it. If promotion isn't achieved Darren Moore does not need to and will not be going anywhere, and that is my opinion! And as SmethwickDan says how's about backing the gaffer and his players.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wigmore on March 05, 2019, 12:39:26 PM
Not sure peoples opinions on a football forum is going to upset DM or maybe even be of interest to him in all honesty.

but he may learn a thing or two by reading them and taking note that Gayle out wide left and playing 4-3-3 at home isn't working.

Lets hope he has a read before saturday.
I fervently hope he does not read the tripe which most people plaster all over the internet, including posters who call him a clown.
And if he was to take heed of the these deranged opinions, he and the club are done for.
I just find it hilarious that posters think that, with no background in professional sport, they can be so dogmatic about players judged on a fleeting 90 minute viewing window.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 05, 2019, 12:43:52 PM
Considering im a HSTH and been to 9 away games id say i do back my team and get behind them on a regular basis.
I think DM is not good enough, thats my opinion and as the season has progressed i believe my opinion is starting to look true. but i never boo or slag the team off at a game and  never would.

My continued support will be with DM and the team until the last game of the season. IF promotion is not achieved then DM has to go, simple as that really.
What if we win the league? Will he still be deemed not good enough.
I think that's the point, I and a few others are making, in that it's not over yet and it is quite realistic that we could still go up, so why the doom and gloom?
It's a bit like carrying out a post-mortem on a live body at the minute.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on March 05, 2019, 12:49:54 PM
Whatever anybody's thoughts are regarding performances/under performances, wouldn't it be great if everyone just got behind Darren Moore and the Albion between now and the end of the season? What a refreshing change that would make from the sometimes informed opinions and more often blind hysteria and child like rantings more commonly found on football forums.

COYB  8) .

Totally agree with this. We remain in the hunt for promotion and the mood at the club has completely changed for the better compared to 12 months ago. I point all of this out because someone new to this forum and not aware of the facts could be forgiven for thinking we are cut off at the bottom of the table!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on March 05, 2019, 12:51:08 PM
I fervently hope he does not read the tripe which most people plaster all over the internet, including posters who call him a clown.
And if he was to take heed of the these deranged opinions, he and the club are done for.
I just find it hilarious that posters think that, with no background in professional sport, they can be so dogmatic about players judged on a fleeting 90 minute viewing window.


Isn't that what matters? Down the years I've lost count of the number of training ground "Messi's" I've heard about. Aren't players meant to be judged on what they do in a a competitive match environment over the ninety (plus) minutes?

Also, you don't need a background in professional sport to understand the game. How much experience does someone like Steve McClaren have yet he's still a pooh manager or for that matter Alan Pardew?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 05, 2019, 12:59:19 PM
What if we win the league? Will he still be deemed not good enough.
I think that's the point, I and a few others are making, in that it's not over yet and it is quite realistic that we could still go up, so why the doom and gloom?
It's a bit like carrying out a post-mortem on a live body at the minute.

im a realist mate. yes its not impossible but realistically we are not going to make automatic in my opinion. thats not being doom and gloom or slagging anybody off. thats my opinion and im fully entitled to that. thats an opinion decided by a number of things such as the managers in game management, tactics, team form, recent results, future fixtures etc etc etc.

i felt that DM has brought the feel good factor back to my club and has done an okay job in my opinion. He is under par by around 6-9 points which at this stage of the season is a huge amount. i keep repeating myself, but i feel that taking into account the strength of our squad and the strength of the opposition teams we should be finishing in a top 2 place this season. If we do not  go up automatic or via the play offs then DM has to go.

if we get in the top 2 it will be a huge surprise and i will now see it as a bonus as im realistic, and realistically with 11 games to go we need to win around 9 of them, judging by our form and average points total over the previous 35 games, that tells you it is highly unlikely. Of course we still have a chance in the play offs and hopefully can get over the line.

At the start of the season i wouldnt say i was happy with the appointment and didnt think he was a good enough manager to get us in the automatic places. after 35 games and especially after the last 2 games that prediction/opinion is starting to look likely. i will be there saturday and at Brentford & Millwall away and get right behind the team as i always do. if you still feel there is a realistic chance to get in that top 2 then good for you.

How anybody can defend him after the Leeds game just baffles me. playing a right footed centre half at left back? and continuing to play the best striker in the league out wide left?

its like the feeling amongst some is dont worry, onto the next game ! i admire the positive attitude but unfortunately we are running out of games and it is imperative we are in the premier league next season and is becoming more and more difficult with him making the same mistakes each and every game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 05, 2019, 01:02:25 PM
I fervently hope he does not read the tripe which most people plaster all over the internet, including posters who call him a clown.
And if he was to take heed of the these deranged opinions, he and the club are done for.
I just find it hilarious that posters think that, with no background in professional sport, they can be so dogmatic about players judged on a fleeting 90 minute viewing window.

So you have to be an ex professional footballer to know anything about football? NO.

i played at a decent level but never at a professional level so my opinion isnt valid? you dont have to have played at the top level to know what you are talking about. DM played at a higher level than me and i know it is absolute ridiculous to play a right footed centre half at left back when you have a left back on the bench.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 05, 2019, 01:06:33 PM
What if we win the league? Will he still be deemed not good enough.
I think that's the point, I and a few others are making, in that it's not over yet and it is quite realistic that we could still go up, so why the doom and gloom?
It's a bit like carrying out a post-mortem on a live body at the minute.

And if we win the league then ill hold my hands up and admit i was wrong and fair play to DM. He has then earned the right to lead us into the PL of course.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on March 05, 2019, 01:06:58 PM
Whatever anybody's thoughts are regarding performances/under performances, wouldn't it be great if everyone just got behind Darren Moore and the Albion between now and the end of the season? What a refreshing change that would make from the sometimes informed opinions and more often blind hysteria and child like rantings more commonly found on football forums.

COYB  8) .
Well said! I just hope none of the players are of the same mindset of giving up so easily when there is still plenty of time to put things right. COYB.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wigmore on March 05, 2019, 01:25:27 PM
So you have to be an ex professional footballer to know anything about football? NO.

i played at a decent level but never at a professional level so my opinion isnt valid? you dont have to have played at the top level to know what you are talking about. DM played at a higher level than me and i know it is absolute ridiculous to play a right footed centre half at left back when you have a left back on the bench.
Your opinion is as valid as everybody else, but it does not make it right. Every observation you make is from the basic premise that DM is not good enough.
Of course, you were there to watch all the training sessions leading up to the Leeds game.
And naturally you have been able to evaluate the performance levels of Townsend et al every day for the last five months. TBH Townend has been a disappointment, since his first games in the League Cup.
Amazing how players improve the longer that they don't make the team...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 05, 2019, 01:47:29 PM
im a realist mate. yes its not impossible but realistically we are not going to make automatic in my opinion. thats not being doom and gloom or slagging anybody off. thats my opinion and im fully entitled to that. thats an opinion decided by a number of things such as the managers in game management, tactics, team form, recent results, future fixtures etc etc etc.

i felt that DM has brought the feel good factor back to my club and has done an okay job in my opinion. He is under par by around 6-9 points which at this stage of the season is a huge amount. i keep repeating myself, but i feel that taking into account the strength of our squad and the strength of the opposition teams we should be finishing in a top 2 place this season. If we do not  go up automatic or via the play offs then DM has to go.

if we get in the top 2 it will be a huge surprise and i will now see it as a bonus as im realistic, and realistically with 11 games to go we need to win around 9 of them, judging by our form and average points total over the previous 35 games, that tells you it is highly unlikely. Of course we still have a chance in the play offs and hopefully can get over the line.

At the start of the season i wouldnt say i was happy with the appointment and didnt think he was a good enough manager to get us in the automatic places. after 35 games and especially after the last 2 games that prediction/opinion is starting to look likely. i will be there saturday and at Brentford & Millwall away and get right behind the team as i always do. if you still feel there is a realistic chance to get in that top 2 then good for you.

How anybody can defend him after the Leeds game just baffles me. playing a right footed centre half at left back? and continuing to play the best striker in the league out wide left?

its like the feeling amongst some is dont worry, onto the next game ! i admire the positive attitude but unfortunately we are running out of games and it is imperative we are in the premier league next season and is becoming more and more difficult with him making the same mistakes each and every game.
The Tosin at LB was baffling, but was enforced by a late injury to Gibbs, yes Townsend or Brunt could have come in but who knows what their match fitness is like.
As for Gayle at LW, he had played there for most of our successful away run, so think it's a stretch to blame the defeat on that.
The whole team was poor against Leeds so the players have to share some of the blame.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 05, 2019, 01:55:23 PM
no it does not make it right, i havent said it is other than my thoughts on DM not being good enough to get us automatically promoted now looks that will be correct. i hope im wrong.

no i dont attend training sessions so other parts of his team selection, he knows better than i do, hence why i dont question that. but playing a right footed centre half at left back? come on? his comments after the game was that he chose Tosin to deal with the physical threat. Leeds do not play long high aerial balls and bamford upfront isnt the most physical is he. people make mistakes, i am not perfect and nor is anybody else.

there is nothing wrong in giving an opinion and saying someone made a mistake and cost us a result. DM got it badly wrong friday night. if we dont go up lets see if the same happy clappers feel the same then....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 05, 2019, 01:58:34 PM
Can we all leave the happy clapper/boo boys and the rest of that rubbish away from this forum?

If members continue then your posts will go.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 05, 2019, 02:01:34 PM
The Tosin at LB was baffling, but was enforced by a late injury to Gibbs, yes Townsend or Brunt could have come in but who knows what their match fitness is like.
As for Gayle at LW, he had played there for most of our successful away run, so think it's a stretch to blame the defeat on that.
The whole team was poor against Leeds so the players have to share some of the blame.

The Tosin decision was nothing short of abysmal. but of course mate, no one really performed. but if its not working, then react to that and make a decision to change it. we were 2-0 down at half time and possibly the worst first half performance of the season. he didnt even make a change when really it should he have been a double substitution. get the 3rd goal and make a game of it. instead he waits and waits and 3-0, game over.

its like people who dont rate DM are getting slated for giving their opinion on that. i always back the team and get behind them and will do until the last game. I would never boo during a game or slag players off, i just dont rate DM, and think he will cost us getting into the top 2. i hope im wrong but believe i will be proved right.

lets just see..
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 05, 2019, 02:23:23 PM
The Tosin decision was nothing short of abysmal. but of course mate, no one really performed. but if its not working, then react to that and make a decision to change it. we were 2-0 down at half time and possibly the worst first half performance of the season. he didnt even make a change when really it should he have been a double substitution. get the 3rd goal and make a game of it. instead he waits and waits and 3-0, game over.

its like people who dont rate DM are getting slated for giving their opinion on that. i always back the team and get behind them and will do until the last game. I would never boo during a game or slag players off, i just dont rate DM, and think he will cost us getting into the top 2. i hope im wrong but believe i will be proved right.

lets just see..
I'm not slating you mate, I actually agree with you regarding the lack of subs, Tosin at LB and even Gayle at LW but I think the negatives are over-played sometimes, and lumped solely at DM's door, whereby he gets little credit for the positives.
I just try and add balance by accentuating the positives.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on March 05, 2019, 06:40:34 PM
no it does not make it right, i havent said it is other than my thoughts on DM not being good enough to get us automatically promoted now looks that will be correct. i hope im wrong.

no i dont attend training sessions so other parts of his team selection, he knows better than i do, hence why i dont question that. but playing a right footed centre half at left back? come on? his comments after the game was that he chose Tosin to deal with the physical threat. Leeds do not play long high aerial balls and bamford upfront isnt the most physical is he. people make mistakes, i am not perfect and nor is anybody else.

there is nothing wrong in giving an opinion and saying someone made a mistake and cost us a result. DM got it badly wrong friday night. if we dont go up lets see if the same happy clappers feel the same then....

Don't think DM said that.

What he did say was he chose Tosin to give us a physical advantage at set pieces.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: section5 on March 05, 2019, 07:15:31 PM
I'm not slating you mate, I actually agree with you regarding the lack of subs, Tosin at LB and even Gayle at LW but I think the negatives are over-played sometimes, and lumped solely at DM's door, whereby he gets little credit for the positives.
I just try and add balance by accentuating the positives.

For me I understand the frustrations. DM did an amazing job coming in last season and has actually done a decent job up until now.  The frustrating thing is, if we had a manager proven at this level who knows how to get out of the champ- (already used to different scenarios and situations the unpredictable league throws at you) we probably would be walking the league with the squad we have in all honesty. It was a big risk for those factors for making DM permanent but after his performance in the premier league- it would have been shocking if anybody else got the job on the back of his performance  (like Ole at United). This is why a cut throat business man like Peace may have appointed a permanent manager with DM as assistant or something along those lines guaranteeing development in the job for DM and the experience needed from a manager who isn't a newbie. That's another factor- everything this season is new to DM as a manager, when in reality these peaks and troughs would have been managed better by a manager who has already had experience in the role.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BigFrank20 on March 05, 2019, 07:30:04 PM
This is why a cut throat business man like Peace may have appointed a permanent manager with DM as assistant or something along those lines guaranteeing development in the job for DM and the experience needed from a manager who isn't a newbie. T
An interesting proposition but;
Most 'experienced' managers come with their own entourage of assistants, coaches, fitness guru's etc there is no certainty they would have agreed to take on mentoring DM too
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on March 05, 2019, 08:35:33 PM
In my view he has probably the best team in the league; so he is doing badly with his resources.
If we don't go up this season and our squad is stripped and the quality lessens then we will see what he is made of. I hope we can go up via the play-offs at this point, but my head says we will not.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on March 09, 2019, 04:56:44 PM
Why do people want this man to continue?

We have the perfect chance to do something with the international break. I never look forward to them this time I do.

I don't see us winning again this season under this manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 09, 2019, 04:57:59 PM
He's not going to last much longer at this rate. Needs to get back to what we were doing at the end of last season and if that means sidelining Jones then so be it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 05:01:56 PM
Some bad choices in last few games. I’ve backed him so far without falling in to some of the ludicrous criticism on here. Now however he deserves to be criticised for the limp performances to date.

We need to pick the team up, change the tactics and the focus and get through the play offs. Automatic is gone.

Over to you Darren.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on March 09, 2019, 05:03:20 PM
With this squad of players, Moore is underachieving. Performances are getting worse and Jones seems to be pulling the strings. It's time for him to go now. I'd go for a Gerrard or Lampard as a replacement. If we can't beat Ipswich at home then there is something definitely wrong.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 09, 2019, 05:05:17 PM
Copied over from my after match post because it sums up my feelings and I'm starting to get bored of typing the same things about our awful 'head coach':

I'd be looking for a new head coach tomorrow morning. Moore is so far out of his depth it's frightening.

Look at the date on this, I posted this after the second match of the season when we looked atrocious against Forest, I didn't want him to get the job and thought it was obvious from the start that he wasn't up to it. Just wanted to prove that I'm not being reactionary when I post this.

A win was the absolute miniumum today, yet we've been ouplayed at home to the worst team in the league whilst showing the same weaknessess and tactical problems we've had since the first couple of games of the season. He's a poor manager who has been carried by good attacking players, of which most seem to have given up on him (or at least his terrible tactical philosophes). He's shown a complete lack of ability to change the course of a game - his in-game management is the worst I've ever seen from an Albion manager - and his persistence with this broken system throughout the season is idiotic.

Automatic promotion was the goal this season, he's failed. Time to make a change before we miss out on the play offs.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggies_24 on March 09, 2019, 05:06:28 PM
Some bad choices in last few games. I’ve backed him so far without falling in to some of the ludicrous criticism on here. Now however he deserves to be criticised for the limp performances to date.

We need to pick the team up, change the tactics and the focus and get through the play offs. Automatic is gone.

Over to you Darren.

Are you expecting Moore to be able to do this though as he hasn’t shown he’s capable of getting the team to put in a good performance so far it’s getting worse by the week at the moment.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on March 09, 2019, 05:07:41 PM
We can't make a change with 10 games left.

We have to stick.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on March 09, 2019, 05:08:55 PM
We can't make a change with 10 games left.

We have to stick.

10 games to save our season and give ourselves the best chance in the playoffs for me. We are getting worse, unless we make a change it will continue. Now is the time or it really will be too late.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 09, 2019, 05:10:27 PM
We can't make a change with 10 games left.

We have to stick.

If we stick we might not even make the play offs altogether. Either way, I've got more chance beating a top 6 team over 2 legs than Moore has.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 05:10:56 PM
Copied over from my after match post because it sums up my feelings and I'm starting to get bored of typing the same things about our awful 'head coach':

Look at the date on this, I posted this after the second match of the season when we looked atrocious against Forest, I didn't want him to get the job and thought it was obvious from the start that he wasn't up to it. Just wanted to prove that I'm not being reactionary when I post this.

A win was the absolute miniumum today, yet we've been ouplayed at home to the worst team in the league whilst showing the same weaknessess and tactical problems we've had since the first couple of games of the season. He's a poor manager who has been carried by good attacking players, of which most seem to have given up on him (or at least his terrible tactical philosophes). He's shown a complete lack of ability to change the course of a game - his in-game management is the worst I've ever seen from an Albion manager - and his persistence with this broken system throughout the season is idiotic.

Automatic promotion was the goal this season, he's failed. Time to make a change before we miss out on the play offs.

Searching your own posts to prove a point to nobody who cares is a new low. Makes me laugh.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 05:13:34 PM
Are you expecting Moore to be able to do this though as he hasn’t shown he’s capable of getting the team to put in a good performance so far it’s getting worse by the week at the moment.

I don’t know. At the start of the season I thought play offs would have been a good finish so for me I guess we are on target. The form is the worry though and you want to go into the play offs in good form. It’s down to the management team to make sure that happens.

Today there was next to no team organisation. It was a bunch of inidividuals. Midfield is the biggest issue. He needs to fix that sharpish.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 09, 2019, 05:16:09 PM
Think we should call on Gary to join the coaching staff just to bring in some experience for last ten games, something needs to be done.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 09, 2019, 05:16:32 PM
Searching your own posts to prove a point to nobody who cares is a new low. Makes me laugh.

Just proving I can judge a head coaches' ability fairly quickly and stick with an opinion whilst being shouted down all season. Better than hero-worshiping a fraud and then jumping on the band wagon once he's been found out, I suppose.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2019, 05:18:06 PM
No point sticking with him, whoever we meet in the play offs will outthink him and we've lost before we start. Get rid ASAP, him and Jones.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 09, 2019, 05:18:16 PM
We can't make a change with 10 games left.

We have to stick.
We changed manager at the end of last season and almost survived.
We must change and give the team new tactics and impetus.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 09, 2019, 05:19:05 PM
We’ve won 7 out of 18 home games. How people can still defend him is beyond me
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on March 09, 2019, 05:22:33 PM
We’ve won 7 out of 18 home games. How people can still defend him is beyond me

A very solid away form has really papered over the cracks of this season and the failing system. I have been very supportive of Moore but he hasn't stopped this rut. 6 without a win at home and 3 without a win full stop the season is unraveling fast he needs to change his system and his tactics.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on March 09, 2019, 05:23:47 PM
We changed manager at the end of last season and almost survived.
We must change and give the team new tactics and impetus.

We appointed within. Many written us off. We are 4th despite us being pooh.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on March 09, 2019, 05:25:28 PM
On the other hand our away form has been very good.

We are a scalp at home to most teams.

We've done better than our other 2 relegated sides. Potter seems nowhere near the sack ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2019, 05:27:52 PM


We've done better than our other 2 relegated sides. Potter seems nowhere near the sack ?

They are an inferior team on paper and the pitch so the expectations are lower. DM took over a team he largely knew and had his say on his own players. HE cannot get them to perform to anywhere near the standard they can so as the boss the buck stops with him and Jones.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 09, 2019, 05:32:28 PM
On the other hand our away form has been very good.

We are a scalp at home to most teams.

We've done better than our other 2 relegated sides. Potter seems nowhere near the sack ?

Swansea have an average age of about 23, spent nothing, and moved on virtually every player with decent Premier League experience. If Darren Moore had our U23 team in mid table and playing decent football I would be over the moon. I'd swap him for Potter in a heartbeat.

If he'd done as poorly as Rowett, he'd have been sacked as well. But Rowett had Berahino and McClean, rather than Gayle and Barnes to make up for his shortcomings.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on March 09, 2019, 05:33:23 PM
Yeah not denying that.

Just be mad to sack him considering we have something to play for. The players still haven't shown any sign of unrest within. If we sack him and appoint someone new and the players refuse to put on a show for him then what? We sack someone else ?

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Nice1Cyrille on March 09, 2019, 05:34:14 PM
I think the fat lady is warming up her vocal cords for Big Dave. Its not a matter of if but more of when he gets let go
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2019, 05:34:26 PM
I dont think the players are refusing to put on a show, they are being poorly managed and guided.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Pelada on March 09, 2019, 05:35:18 PM
I’ve always maintained that as a fan I can forgive results if I can see the approach is clear and right- sometimes you can get it right but lose with some bad luck (it’s professional sport and abilities are tightly matched, so it can happen)

What I can’t accept though is someone who cannot learn that their approach hasn’t worked, and hasn’t adopted a new way to improve. Darren’s biggest downfall is performances at home. We lack penetration and play our best striker on the wing.

Loyalty to out of form players (Dawson, Livermore, Rodriguez) also asks questions of the ability to make tough decisions.

At times the football hasn’t been much better than last year either. A really disappointing season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on March 09, 2019, 05:38:04 PM
They are an inferior team on paper and the pitch so the expectations are lower. DM took over a team he largely knew and had his say on his own players. HE cannot get them to perform to anywhere near the standard they can so as the boss the buck stops with him and Jones.

If it had been Tony Pulis or Alan Pardew people would be all of this.

The fact that we have someone in charge who used to play for us 20 years ago means people cut him slack for some reason.

The club should have shown some balls and got a proper coach in during the summer like Leeds did.  Swansea are just as bad with their appointment of second rate head coaches as well.

Hopefully we have an overseas appointment next time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: EastYorksAlbion on March 09, 2019, 05:39:03 PM
I am not convinced that a change now would produce the impetus we want. I do think we will get into the playoffs, but that will end in heart break. I would keep Daren till the season’s end, then give him the opportunity to stand down or move to another role in the club. If he doesn’t want to stand aside, then we sack him, I just want him to have the chance to walk first.

This summer will require a radical change at the club and total rebuild, David Wagner anyone?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: miggybaggy on March 09, 2019, 05:40:22 PM
Our biggest problem for the last two or three years has been the bloody awful midfield, and its never been properly addressed....other than the brief introduction of Harvey Barnes which proved to anyone that knows about football exactly what we've been missing.

Wake up Mr Lai, the board. etc etc and smell the coffee....we need a complete clear out and change of personnel in the middle of the pitch, players with skill and pace and instinctively on the front foot.....for Christ sake.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2019, 05:40:54 PM
If it had been Tony Pulis or Alan Pardew people would be all of this.

The fact that we have someone in charge who used to play for us 20 years ago means people cut him slack for some reason.

The club should have shown some balls and got a proper coach in during the summer like Leeds did.  Swansea are just as bad with their appointment of second rate head coaches as well.

Hopefully we have an overseas appointment next time.

Absolutely, i posted in the after match thread he gets away with so much due to the fact he is ex-albion, if Pulis was producing these results and perfromances people would be calling for his head a long time ago and rightly so!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on March 09, 2019, 05:43:15 PM
McInnally on SSN shook his head in bemusement at how disjointed we were today, no-one on here should be surprised.  I'm gutted that he has lost it like this, but I don't think he'll be moved on before the end of the season whatever happens.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: cheesyknackers on March 09, 2019, 05:46:37 PM
Darren Moore interview on WM cringe worthy .     Erm...we wanted to win the game.. stopped the rot of defeats...erm...erm..
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on March 09, 2019, 05:47:01 PM
Pulis had many transfer windows. Darren has had 2.

I don't agree with people who say we have the best team.

Many don't rate Johnstone so obviously we don't have the best keeper.

Many called hegazi a donkey early on in the season so we don't have the best center half partnership. Loads wanted rid of Gibbs/Barry/Livermore after relegation.
We have the best strike force on paper. That's it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2019, 05:47:59 PM
No " they are good team, full of good players, we had a good go and couldnt find what we needed, we will move on from this game, look back at the match tape and analyse it and look to get the 3 points in the next game"?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: addy on March 09, 2019, 05:48:12 PM
Moore's management ability starting to show...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mini gaardsoe on March 09, 2019, 05:48:17 PM
The formation we attempted to play first half today showed how clueless he is, it was an absolute shambles, Dawson centre back, right back and right wing all in the first 20 minutes. He has to go, if it was anyone else he’d be gone, absolutely clueless
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 05:48:21 PM
Just proving I can judge a head coaches' ability fairly quickly and stick with an opinion whilst being shouted down all season. Better than hero-worshiping a fraud and then jumping on the band wagon once he's been found out, I suppose.

Who is jumping on the band wagon and who says he’s been found out? Things can still change. Still laughing at you searching your own posts.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on March 09, 2019, 05:50:01 PM
muddled, lacking in a clear decisive approach all season. Afraid we're being found out now results wise. I don't think Darren and Jones have found a formula and I don't think they will based on what i've seento now. Definately give them to the summer .  Unless they suddenly stumble on something they've missed all season I'd say its the beginning of the end for Darren and Jones though. Shame but thats life and we need to overhaul players and progress. we need someone with vision to do that
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on March 09, 2019, 05:52:20 PM
Tried not to be critical of DM but it is quite clear that this is not working. Do we stick or twist? Ipswich are rock bottom of the league and still managed 20+ shots against us and it is a good job they have not got a good strike force.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 09, 2019, 05:54:45 PM
I am not convinced that a change now would produce the impetus we want. I do think we will get into the playoffs, but that will end in heart break. I would keep Daren till the season’s end, then give him the opportunity to stand down or move to another role in the club. If he doesn’t want to stand aside, then we sack him, I just want him to have the chance to walk first.

This summer will require a radical change at the club and total rebuild, David Wagner anyone?
don't want him any where near are youngsters as he is tactically inept and his football philosophy is pooh
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2019, 05:55:34 PM
If we stick with DM we stay in the champo at very best, we have less funds next year, we sell our better players and spent the next 5-10 years in champo mediocrity MAYBE. I believe if we keep with DM with a worse squad we may end up perennial relegation battlers. He is that useless.

Change to anyone with half a clue and we get a chance at making the play offs and as long as they have some level of footballing brain we may well win as ,ON PAPER, we have the better players.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 09, 2019, 05:56:15 PM
Who is jumping on the band wagon and who says he’s been found out? Things can still change. Still laughing at you searching your own posts.

It's pretty obvious to anyone with a basic knowledge of football that Moore has been found out, though that's probably where you're struggling. Searching posts takes a second to do and backs up my opinion rather than making me look fickle, why wouldn't I do it?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 05:57:35 PM
It's pretty obvious to anyone with a basic knowledge of football that Moore has been found out, though that's probably where you're struggling. Searching posts takes a second to do and backs up my opinion rather than making me look fickle, why wouldn't I do it?

The season isn’t over.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on March 09, 2019, 06:05:18 PM
The season isn’t over.

Head in the clouds, I’d be surprised if we managed another win.

Jon Leko as sub today why, nowhere last few weeks, Montero unused.  Livermore in front of Harper, he must be having a laugh.  JRod and Gayle have been s—t together for weeks, still plays both.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on March 09, 2019, 06:06:54 PM
I've been more than happy to back Darren Moore but to be honest at the moment i'm slowly thinking a change might be needed. I'm struggling to see what plan A was today let alone a plan B. Constantly doing the same things that are not working only end with one result.

Loyalty to some players will cost him along with his safety first approach, today was a day to take it to them, bench should have contained Kyle Edwards, Morgan Rogers, Rayhaan Tulloch, kids with something to prove who can come on and change a game, instead we get the old brigade, it was obvious Morrison was going to come on, if Adarabioyo had not gone down then Brunt was coming on, so predictable, only surprise was Leko but then if Robson-Kanu had been on there then that would have been the 3rd.

Seems strange with us 4th in the table that people including me are questioning the bloke but sometimes a change has to be made.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 09, 2019, 06:07:14 PM
The season isn’t over.

I don't understand that attitude at all. It wasn't over last year when we held on to Pardew too long, yet if we acted sooner we could have stayed up. If we can improve our chances of getting promoted, why would we stick with a head coach that isn't working and doesn't show any signs that he can change things? Is it just because you like him?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on March 09, 2019, 06:12:19 PM
His radio wm interview was humiliating for him . He sounded lost . If I was the owner of the club listening to that it would leave me with no doubt as to what I needed to do regardless of how many people cry .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2019, 06:13:25 PM
DM's views online shortly, their keeper had a worldy and Gayle denied a penalty at 1-0 up has cost us the game is the jist of it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 09, 2019, 06:13:30 PM
Ahhh we are finally beginning to realise.

Complete joke and still insists on us playing stupid football out from the back when his players are not
Up to it.

And before anybody mentions Graeme Jones is behind the tactics then DM should have big enough balls to tell him and play his own way or make his own decisions.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 09, 2019, 06:15:20 PM
Sorry it has to end now, otherwise we will limp into the playoffs absolutely flat, or worse still miss out altogether.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2019, 06:15:44 PM
Yeah the whole "its Jones, its Jones!" is ridiculous. We apparently have a manager/head coach who is too weak to tell his number 2 where to go. FOr that alone he should be fired.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 09, 2019, 06:17:07 PM
The season isn’t over.
Your support for Moore is admirable, but misguided
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 06:31:42 PM
I don't understand that attitude at all. It wasn't over last year when we held on to Pardew too long, yet if we acted sooner we could have stayed up. If we can improve our chances of getting promoted, why would we stick with a head coach that isn't working and doesn't show any signs that he can change things? Is it just because you like him?

I hate to blow your stereotype - but I never liked him as a player. He had next to no talent but a big heart. So the fact he is an explayer is of no interest to me.

I loathed Pulis and watch people in this forum proclaim that he needed multiple transfer windows to turn us into his Palace side. It was never going to happen and it didn’t. Pulis stripped the heart out the club.

Moore joins, gets some pride back. People write him off after a handful of games. Then moan upon moan when we don’t play champagne football. He is in his first year and I’d hate to throw him out when it’s quite obvious we aren’t going to walk this league.

In my opinion it is only now that we are genuinely right to worry. Barnes has been a huge loss and the team are looking short on imagination energy and confidence. I have remained balanced throughout my support of Albion over 42 years and this is my view.

For the record I thought play offs would have been a good finishing position.

Although what would I know as I apparently don’t go to games according to jacko.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 06:35:05 PM
Did Moore drop half our team or were they injured? If the later hardly his fault for the poor result today.

Leeds game we went toe to toe tactical and our players came up short, bottom line is beyond our first 11 we woefully lack of quality.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: richjonawba on March 09, 2019, 06:35:22 PM
I think if we can find a half decent replacement willing to take over we should get rid, Moore is unfortunately totally out of his depth. Today was an utter shambles, I can’t remember witnessing a match before where I couldn’t figure out our formation, not only that but it didn’t sound like Moore could either in his WM interview.

I certainly can’t recall ever seeing anyone play two in midfield for 90 minutes, which is what it appears just happened. Even if we’d had Fernandinho and Modric in there we’d have struggled. I don’t blame the players today I put the blame solely on Moore for that complete and utter farce of a system.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 09, 2019, 06:35:40 PM
Very concerning - I expected a response after Leeds but what was served up this afternoon was worse.

Today was an opportunity to change - we blew it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on March 09, 2019, 06:38:00 PM
You have to blame our hierarchy for appointing him in the first place, but we always go for the cheapest option and going for cheap has cost us dear down the years.
You also have to blame Moore for being either daft or arrogant to accept a job with zilch managerial experience.
He should have said, i am flattered but this is Albions most important season for years, one that could be decisive for generations to come, and at the moment i am not the right person for the job.

When he was appointed i posted,"I feel sick", and it was removed.
I feel even sicker now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 09, 2019, 06:38:09 PM
Did Moore drop half our team or were they injured? If the later hardly his fault for the poor result today.

Leeds game we went toe to toe tactical and our players came up short, bottom line is beyond our first 11 we woefully lack of quality.

Unbelievable. How is it not his fault? He still allows and encourages us to play that pathetic football out from the back!! Absolute clueless and people still defend him. Mad. He still chose to play that awful system.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2019, 06:39:56 PM
I have to say i was fairly happy when he was appointed but as i've said before getting people to perform when they are looking at a 30k a week paycut is clearly and obviously, not difficult. I was wrong about his appointment and i take it all back.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 06:40:27 PM
Unbelievable. How is it not his fault? He still allows and encourages us to play that pathetic football out from the back!! Absolute clueless and people still defend him. Mad.

So he is going around deliberately dropping players in your view or were they injured?

Don't worry our form dropped when brunt got injured, he is soon back to starting. :-*
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on March 09, 2019, 06:51:46 PM
Any manager who is told what to do by his assistant isn't going to successfully manage a dressing room. As others have said, his loyalty to certain players is costing us points.

If he has any sense of what's right for the club, he will walk away and admit he's got it wrong on so many levels.

While there's still chance of promotion, he needs to go along with Jones. They are failing what they were brought in to do.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on March 09, 2019, 07:04:55 PM

doesn't make good viewing against bottom of the league does it.

West Brom V  Ipswich

Possession
Home47%.  Away53%

Shots
Home16.     Away22

Shots on Target
Home5.       Away7

Corners
Home8.        Away7

Fouls
Home12.      Away9
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 09, 2019, 07:07:36 PM
It’s time to admit that he is as clueless as I have said he is all along and do something to salvage the season as we are only headed one way if we keep him and Jones in charge. Successful business is about making the key tough decisions at the time time and to let it fizzle out to the end of the season would cost us massively.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: leeiswba on March 09, 2019, 07:11:14 PM
Talksport are reporting he is on the brink of being sacked
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: cads_ap_albion on March 09, 2019, 07:12:13 PM
His radio wm interview was humiliating for him . He sounded lost . If I was the owner of the club listening to that it would leave me with no doubt as to what I needed to do regardless of how many people cry .

Thought the same. Sounded totally lost.
They had a go back and their keeper made good saves. A record for the amount of times a manager said the word game or today. That was the gist. For the record we played 343. A fluid 343

Actually felt sorry for him by the end of the interview.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 09, 2019, 07:12:49 PM
Talksport and Daily Mail reporting he’a about to be sacked..

If he isn’t going tonight, you sense something is happening
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mr multivac on March 09, 2019, 07:13:54 PM
With this squad Darren couldn’t of got a better
Chance of being a success it’s almost like starting at the front of the grid with one of the best cars unfortunately he’s managed to stall it ,now he’s not got what it takes to get it started ,best hope is he manages to roll down the hill
And coast over in the top six whether then he can retune the engine
For three more races is anybody’s guess
If he does and gets third I don’t think he will behind the wheel
To long next season and the same applies if he don’t
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dan87uk on March 09, 2019, 07:15:20 PM
Talksport and Daily Mail reporting he’a about to be sacked..

If he isn’t going tonight, you sense something is happening

Not suprised by this at all..

Finally, finally, the interviewer on WM asked Moore some difficult questions and he was completely at a loss on how to actually answer them. He just rambled on as you say about trying to win the game etc and kept running in circles with the same nonsense said just slightly differently each time.

It's starting to unravel now, Auto's are gone and the players (half of which are on loan) have just gone into "go through the motions" mode.

Perhaps a new manager will shake it up a bit to try and get some momentum going into the playoffs.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 09, 2019, 07:18:05 PM
Talksport and Daily Mail reporting he’a about to be sacked..

If he isn’t going tonight, you sense something is happening
Unless someone special is lined up a-la Hodgson, this would be madness.
Ok our home form is poor but we've won 6 from 7 away, who's going to better that?
Can only see an out of work dinosaur coming in.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 07:18:22 PM
Talksport and Daily Mail reporting he’a about to be sacked..

If he isn’t going tonight, you sense something is happening

If he is sacked it won't make the smallest bit of difference our squad is not stong enough.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggies_24 on March 09, 2019, 07:19:24 PM
Talksport and Daily Mail reporting he’a about to be sacked..

If he isn’t going tonight, you sense something is happening

I don’t want to see him sacked I hope the club offer him a role with the academy etc. but it’s clear he’s in over his head.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on March 09, 2019, 07:19:43 PM
he had much support for the attacking and exciting football he bought in but that's long gone, in fact it went when Barnes left. we are not improving as a team under his management, the defence has been problematic all season, the midfield is slow, tactics repeated time after time without the players getting better at it. is it loyalty to a former likeable player why he gets so much slack?
didn't agree with the appointment but was hoping it would work but I just don't see any improvement at all.
pulls and pardew wouldve been shredded to bits.






Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 07:22:10 PM
All over Twitter that he has gone  :o

Duncan right sports writer for the sun.

Bbc confirmed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47511399
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 07:22:39 PM
Given our track record if he is to be sacked then I hold out no hope for whoever the next manager would be.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2019, 07:24:17 PM
Officialy gone

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/march/west-bromwich-albion-club-statement/


Jones has been buggered off too. Great move.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 07:24:42 PM
Speechless. Just speechless.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2019, 07:26:34 PM
Backing the board on this for a change, i think he needs to go it alone at a much lower level and work his way up. I wish him all the best but he wasnt right for us.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 07:26:51 PM
Well you got what you wanted people. Let’s see where we go from here.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 07:26:59 PM
Unbelievable with the injuries we had, or were they not injured and he lost the dressing room and dropped?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tommcneill on March 09, 2019, 07:27:37 PM
Oh wow he’s gone  :o
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Xpresso on March 09, 2019, 07:28:27 PM
Timing totally wrong again. No-one of any merit available and by the time the appointment is made the season will be as good as over.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 07:28:52 PM
Backing the board on this for a change, i think he needs to go it alone at a much lower level and work his way up. I wish him all the best but he wasnt right for us.

How can you back the board without knowing who they have in store. Maybe a return for Pardew for all you know. It had better be good or the goodwill generated within our club will quickly fall to the acidic culture of recent years.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: richjonawba on March 09, 2019, 07:29:24 PM
Deserved to go based on today’s horror show alone. His complete inability or refusal to change our system has been mind boggling.

 I like the bloke as a person but he is not at this moment in time anywhere near astute enough to be a football manager at this level. Hopefully he gets a role in a lower division and works his way back up, without Graeme Jones’ ideology!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 09, 2019, 07:29:41 PM
Disgusting Albion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 09, 2019, 07:29:51 PM
he had much support for the attacking and exciting football he bought in but that's long gone, in fact it went when Barnes left. we are not improving as a team under his management, the defence has been problematic all season, the midfield is slow, tactics repeated time after time without the players getting better at it. is it loyalty to a former likeable player why he gets so much slack?
didn't agree with the appointment but was hoping it would work but I just don't see any improvement at all.
pulls and pardew wouldve been shredded to bits.
No, it's because he's 4th for God's sake. Pulis is below him, as are both of Dean Smith's sides!
We've lost the plot if we sack him now!I
Everyone bashing his home form whilst, conveniently, ignoring his away form.
Everyone quotes the fact that we've missed Barnes but what the heck could he do about that? You can't just go to Aldi and get one off the shelf.

Yes he's made mistakes but so does every manager. We need to be better than sacking at the first sign of a few bad results!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 07:29:55 PM
Timing totally wrong again. No-one of any merit available and by the time the appointment is made the season will be as good as over.

Plenty on here wanted it so keen to hear who they want now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Aztech on March 09, 2019, 07:30:16 PM
Plenty on here wanted it so keen to hear who they want now.

David Wagner
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 07:30:59 PM
No, it's because he's 4th for God's sake. Pulis is below him, as are both of Dean Smith's sides!
We've lost the plot if we sack him now!I
Everyone bashing his home form whilst, conveniently, ignoring his away form.
Everyone quotes the fact that we've missed Barnes but what the heck could he do about that? You can't just go to Aldi and get one off the shelf.

Yes he's made mistakes but so does every manager. We need to be better than sacking at the first sign of a few bad results!

I’m afraid we are not better than that. Sad times. They had better have a belter of a manager lined up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 07:31:11 PM
Plenty on here wanted it so keen to hear who they want now.

Murinio  ???
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggies_24 on March 09, 2019, 07:31:21 PM
Blimey I think it’s the right decision although I am devastated for Dave there can be no doubt he’s restored pride in the club he took over an absolute mess and has put the club on the right path. For god sakes Albion don’t go & hire big Sam
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 07:31:34 PM
David Wagner

Seriously no. Please no.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on March 09, 2019, 07:31:43 PM
if a new man comes in straight away and gets the rest of this season as a free hit, the summer to rebuild (and a big one at that) then its probably the right choice. Sorry Darren but we were looking more ragged and confused by the week. Good luck to hin but its probably the right choice for the bigger picture
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Smethwickender93 on March 09, 2019, 07:31:51 PM
Was always going to end in tears but the correct decision
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2019, 07:32:03 PM
How can you back the board without knowing who they have in store. Maybe a return for Pardew for all you know. It had better be good or the goodwill generated within our club will quickly fall to the acidic culture of recent years.

Because they have taken action when it was clearly needed. THey may not get the next manager right, they usually dont, they gave Pardew and DM the reins and Pulis a new contract when it was time for him to be moved on (the start of the clubs downfall) but not making a very clearly needed change and just accepting mediocrity is unacceptable. Besides they were too slow in sacking Moore for my liking by about 2 months. He's been on borrowed time for a long while.

The definition of madness is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results. He is a lovely bloke but out of his depth. He is simply not ready for a managers job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 07:32:31 PM
Blimey I think it’s the right decision although I am devastated for Dave there can be no doubt he’s restored pride in the club he took over an absolute mess and has put the club on the right path. For god sakes Albion don’t go & hire big Sam

Realty bites now for everyone who complained about him.

Can’t see promotion at all now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on March 09, 2019, 07:33:23 PM
Not been a fan of DM the manager but didn’t expect the club to take this step for a while yet.

Despite the my feelings of him as a manager it’s still incredibly sad too, even if it was coming. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dan on March 09, 2019, 07:33:33 PM
Disappointed bring, last few weeks have been awful bit I said at the start of the season if we make the play offs he's done ok.

With the club's track record I would not expect a decent replacement.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on March 09, 2019, 07:34:01 PM
Wow. Didn't expect such a swift course of action by the club. We've been getting worse and worse game by game though and today it seemed clear that the players did not know what they were meant to be doing. Correct decision for me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 09, 2019, 07:34:22 PM
Disgrace. If we get a Pulis clone, I hope everyone who hounded him are happy. We are a laughing stock.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2019, 07:34:38 PM
THe fact that virtually ALL of the backroom staff has gone suggests they have a new bloke and his crew lined up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 09, 2019, 07:34:58 PM
Disgraceful decision. Hope you are all happy we could end up with a lot worse
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 07:35:13 PM
Because they have taken action when it was clearly needed. THey may not get the next manager right, they usually dont, they gave Pardew and DM the reins and Pulis a new contract when it was time for him to be moved on (the start of the clubs downfall) but not making a very clearly needed change and just accepting mediocrity is unacceptable. Besides they were too slow in sacking Moore for my liking by about 2 months. He's been on borrowed time for a long while.

The definition of madness is repeating the same thing over and over and expecting different results. He is a lovely bloke but out of his depth. He is simply not ready for a managers job.

With him we may have still got through via the play offs. I doubt we will now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2019, 07:35:45 PM
Disgrace. If we get a Pulis clone, I hope everyone who hounded him are happy. We are a laughing stock.


He is an inferior Pulis clone, albeit the more attacking version. One dimensional, no tactics beyond his plan A. Pulis is tactically leagues ahead of him as much as i hated his football.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 07:36:16 PM
THe fact that virtually ALL of the backroom staff has gone suggests they have a new bloke and his crew lined up.

Yep. Mel, Irvine, Pardew?

Better not be Allardyce.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ashdoy on March 09, 2019, 07:36:52 PM
Our club is a shambles.

Hope the boo boys are proud and happy.

Don’t worry though, we’ll have somebody new in soon for you to all boo & blame.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 07:37:29 PM
With him we may have still got through via the play offs. I doubt we will now.

Agreed no chance now. Glad to see general reaction on twitter apart from a vocal minority on here call this crazy. 4th in the championship with no money and loan players and a stack full of injuries. What he achieved from the collapse of pardrew should not be taken away from him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 09, 2019, 07:38:41 PM
Disappointed bring, last few weeks have been awful bit I said at the start of the season if we make the play offs he's done ok.

With the club's track record I would not expect a decent replacement.
Well, James Shan better be the next big thing because, based on our recent track record, the replacements won't be quick.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 07:39:20 PM
Agreed no chance now. Glad to see general reaction on twitter apart from a vocal minority on here call this crazy. 4th in the championship with no money and loan players and a stack full of injuries.

Yep. Very poor today but the bigger picture says a lot more. I think we will be a national laughing stock for this decision.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Jimmy on March 09, 2019, 07:40:08 PM
Toxic atmosphere at the hawthorns, fans have been shocking last few home games.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: section5 on March 09, 2019, 07:40:18 PM
Yep. Mel, Irvine, Pardew?

Better not be Allardyce.
He'd probably get us promoted....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on March 09, 2019, 07:40:32 PM
Disgraceful decision. Hope you are all happy we could end up with a lot worse


I don't think anybody is "happy" tonight. It's no good having a go at the fans, it's not their fault. All of them want what is best for the club, just that people have differing opinions which is everybody's right.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 09, 2019, 07:42:41 PM
Spot on decision. Nice guy but never a head coach, will remain a club hero for his efforts on the pitch. The club have been ruthless, which is nice to see, need to get their next decision right and we should be favourites for the play offs.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2019, 07:44:06 PM
Although i am glad this decision is made i'm not "happy", i personally like DM but as a manager he just doesn't cut it at this moment in time. If things had continued on the same more and more people would have turned on him. The ideal outcome would have been he walked as his interviews for the last month or so have clearly revealed him to be aware he's not quite there yet and be self aware of it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 09, 2019, 07:44:13 PM
No matter who you talk to, everyone says it...He is a nice guy.
Possibly too nice?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 09, 2019, 07:44:25 PM
The mistake was appointing him, he’s just not a manager, really lovely bloke and club legend but never a manager and this season has just gone to show it. Decision had to be made, he has failed in the job ultimately, we should have been in the top two or at least in touch with them, instead we are clinging onto a play off place. The board have acted before it was too late.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on March 09, 2019, 07:44:51 PM
I saw my first Albion Victory under Big Dave can't ask better, was going to go today but my dad was very busy listened to the game and we played awful. The atmosphere was toxic but Big Dave can hold his head high he changed us and united us back together too support our team that has been on a Downfall. Here come all the Albion fans on 606. Why sack him now if we got our form back we could have got up now what are going to do.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on March 09, 2019, 07:44:56 PM
This is the correct decision.

He hasn't learned from his mistakes and Jones is as much, if not more to blame.

I love the man, but he hasn't made sensible decisions for most of the season. He has been tactically clueless.

Lots of fans calling for his head, now he's gone.

I just hope we get this appointment right. Please not allardyce.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: throstle on March 09, 2019, 07:45:11 PM
Awful decision. The club could at least given him the chance to see if we'd go up via the play offs. We deserve all the national abuse we'll get for this.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on March 09, 2019, 07:45:29 PM
Putting aside Darrens afiliation with the club does anybody think they could see progress and something being built this season - a vision ?  I think we got worse and worse and  I saw no plan except 20 passes across the back and turgid football.

What a lovely man, great player for us but I think history  will show it was a romantic decision and when it got tough Darren really struggled. He may admit the job came too early in his coaching career? It looked that way.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 07:45:36 PM
The mistake was appointing him, he’s just not a manager, really lovely bloke and club legend but never a manager and this season has just gone to show it. Decision had to be made, he has failed in the job ultimately, we should have been in the top two or at least in touch with them, instead we are clinging onto a play off place. The board have acted before it was too late.

You got what you wanted. Fair enough. We need to move on. Who do you want in now?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 07:45:46 PM
Got big Sam wrote all over the next appointment.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Topman on March 09, 2019, 07:46:02 PM
we are now a national laughing stock
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on March 09, 2019, 07:47:09 PM
Putting aside Darrens afiliation with the club does anybody think they could see progress and something being built this season - a vision ? I think we got worse and worse and  I saw no plan except 20 passes across the back and turgid football.

What a lovely man, great player for us but I think history  will show it was a romantic decision and when it got tough Darren really struggled. He may admit the job came too early in his coaching career? It looked that way.


That's the thing.

Lovely bloke Darren Moore and I'll still think of him in a favourable light.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 07:47:31 PM
we are now a national laughing stock

scapegoat is the only way to describe this.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on March 09, 2019, 07:48:01 PM
Jokanovic now I reckon

Two promotions playing good football at similar sized clubs to us
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 07:48:04 PM
Putting aside Darrens afiliation with the club does anybody think they could see progress and something being built this season - a vision ?  I think we got worse and worse and  I saw no plan except 20 passes across the back and turgid football.

What a lovely man, great player for us but I think history  will show it was a romantic decision and when it got tough Darren really struggled. He may admit the job came too early in his coaching career? It looked that way.

You could well be right. He did a lot of good for us after what in my opinion was possibly the worst period in our history of the last 30 or so years. He inherited a disgrace and left us fourth in the league with a chance of promotion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on March 09, 2019, 07:48:38 PM
get a grip. the fans haven't got Moore sacked. not heard 1 anti Moore song at the ground just a few boos which happen at all football grounds. this is an owner worried his investment is going down the pan and no boost from promotion this year under the current management. rightly or wrongly it's his choice to stick or twist.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on March 09, 2019, 07:48:42 PM
Looking at the bigger picture I want to thank Darren for all his hard work.

He has brought this club back together and really made us proud to be a baggie in a time when our club were only going one way.

All the best Big Dave.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on March 09, 2019, 07:49:08 PM
Yep should listen to the Grilling we are being given on 606 Albion fan on now though and looks like more to come. Fan on 606 just suggested David Wagner to replace him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 07:49:28 PM
This will only be a good decision if the replacement gets us up. If not then we’ve lost the chance to build a long term structure and future for the club.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on March 09, 2019, 07:49:47 PM
Bet some are sitting with a right smirk aye.

I hope we finish 7th and lose harper on a free. Sell rodriguez/Dawson/Gibbs/hegazi/Phillips all for half a mill each

**** off Albion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 07:50:03 PM
Looking at the bigger picture I want to thank Darren for all his hard work.

He has brought this club back together and really made us proud to be a baggie in a time when our club were only going one way.

All the best Big Dave.

Good post.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on March 09, 2019, 07:51:46 PM
If you are a major investor in a club with investors behind you sentiment goes out the window. These guys obviously understand the financial implications for them. Regardless of tactics money is their main motivation. For those of us who witnessed the little and Buckley eras today was a throwback to that . I walked away from that ground fearing for our future .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 09, 2019, 07:51:53 PM
The mistake was appointing him, he’s just not a manager, really lovely bloke and club legend but never a manager and this season has just gone to show it. Decision had to be made, he has failed in the job ultimately, we should have been in the top two or at least in touch with them, instead we are clinging onto a play off place. The board have acted before it was too late.
And suddenly the same people are going to appoint a mastermind? At least Moore had the club at heart, the next one will just be another has been mercenary.
If it's Allardyce, we'll go from a Baggies legend to a doghead. Disgrace.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 09, 2019, 07:52:08 PM
Right decision in my opinion but not nice to see a coach lose his job and especially an ex player. Good luck to Darren and I hope he gets back in game soon. As for new coach hope the board have identified some one and it's not just a knee jerk reaction
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 09, 2019, 07:52:23 PM
At a party so only just catching up. I said he wouldn't last much longer, but a couple of hours is way sooner than I expected. Absolute disgrace from the club and Jenkins particularly. However, we need to move on quickly and for me that means Slavisa Jokanevic. Go and get him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: glosterbaggie on March 09, 2019, 07:53:04 PM
Bet some are sitting with a right smirk aye.

I hope we finish 7th and lose harper on a free. Sell rodriguez/Dawson/Gibbs/hegazi/Phillips all for half a mill each

**** off Albion.
Not at all happy with the "management's" decision. Be surprised if we hang on to Harper and co now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 09, 2019, 07:53:52 PM

I don't think anybody is "happy" tonight. It's no good having a go at the fans, it's not their fault. All of them want what is best for the club, just that people have differing opinions which is everybody's right.
Not having a go at anyone that's my opinion and I beg to differ there IS a lot of happy people tonight!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on March 09, 2019, 07:54:19 PM
Sitting in the pub with my mates and got to say a bit shocked. All the best Darren and thanks for what you did
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on March 09, 2019, 07:54:42 PM
You could well be right. He did a lot of good for us after what in my opinion was possibly the worst period in our history of the last 30 or so years. He inherited a disgrace and left us fourth in the league with a chance of promotion.

I agree 100% , he was the antidote to two or more 'soulless appointments and gave us our pride back last year.  I wanted his appointment and desperately wanted it to work. I'd have loved him to have been a long term appointment but his inexperience has meant we now face an even bigger , more difficult summer losing loads of players. That kind of rebuild job needs experience and a strong plan.....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Blowee on March 09, 2019, 07:55:00 PM
Bet some are sitting with a right smirk aye.

I hope we finish 7th and lose harper on a free. Sell rodriguez/Dawson/Gibbs/hegazi/Phillips all for half a mill each

**** off Albion.
Disappointed to see Big Dave go but COYB. Club will always be bigger than individuals. Hope you feel that way too in the future.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: glosterbaggie on March 09, 2019, 07:55:20 PM
If you are a major investor in a club with investors behind you sentiment goes out the window. These guys obviously understand the financial implications for them. Regardless of tactics money is their main motivation. For those of us who witnessed the little and Buckley eras today was a throwback to that . I walked away from that ground fearing for our future .
Well look at the position of the other 2 teams that came down with us below them? Explains itself.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on March 09, 2019, 07:55:58 PM
I just hope we have a proper manager lined up and aren't stuck in limbo for weeks which would be truly embarrassing.

Honestly I don't think Moore was good enough. That being said, it's stupid to sack him right now - they should have done it in the summer had we failed relegation. I think he would have got us into the play-offs and you never know from there, so to clarify the decision is ok but the timing is well off.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 07:56:40 PM
Laughing at the best of luck posts from those who have been sticking the knife in. Embarrassing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on March 09, 2019, 07:56:49 PM
I would suggest we now know why Jenkins went to China in the week
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on March 09, 2019, 07:57:23 PM
Were getting a pounding from other clubs fans on social media.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 07:58:03 PM
Were getting a pounding from other clubs fans on social media.

Rightly so.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on March 09, 2019, 07:58:42 PM
Were getting a pounding from other clubs fans on social media.

Why would anybody care what fans of other clubs think? Do any of them give a stuff about us?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 09, 2019, 07:59:08 PM
Bet some are sitting with a right smirk aye.

I hope we finish 7th and lose harper on a free. Sell rodriguez/Dawson/Gibbs/hegazi/Phillips all for half a mill each

**** off Albion.

So you're a Darren Moore fan and not an Albion fan?

I was probably his biggest critic and I'm not smirking, or celebrating. I'm relieved, and hopeful the club can get the right replacement.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: richjonawba on March 09, 2019, 08:00:14 PM
Based on wanting to get back up it’s the right decision for me. We had next to no chance in the play offs the way we have been playing (which as has been shown repeatedly wouldn’t be changing under Moore), therefore the only shot we have of going up this season is to give someone with some tactical nous a shot. Hopefully we have someone lined up, otherwise it looks to have been done too soon.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: don1thedon on March 09, 2019, 08:00:46 PM
I would suggest we now know why Jenkins went to China in the week
Yep & suspect there is also someone already lined up.
Super sad to see Darren go, but while there is a chance to still go up via play offs the board have decided to act.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on March 09, 2019, 08:01:22 PM
I feel sorry for Moore but he should never have been offered  the post in the first place.
The club have made the right decision, we were getting worse week by week as teams found out our weakness's and nothing was done to correct it. Home form is relegation form.
Don't worry about not getting into the play offs without him, we wouldn't have anyway, and he would probably have been given another season.
Nobody would be moaning if had no previous Albion connections.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on March 09, 2019, 08:02:05 PM
So you're a Darren Moore fan and not an Albion fan?

I was probably his biggest critic and I'm not smirking, or celebrating. I'm relieved, and hopeful the club can get the right replacement.

Been an Albion fan since you was born kid.

Sacked in the dressing room apparently ? Like I said **** off albion
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on March 09, 2019, 08:02:15 PM
Whilst I’m shocked, it does show that the owner is serious about wanting us to go up this season.

This next appointment is huge for the club.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mig on March 09, 2019, 08:03:11 PM
If Moore was key to keeping Harper then he would have signed a new contract already. That the situation has reached the point that we'll likely lose him for free is mismanagement from a number of people at the club, including Moore.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hardtobeat on March 09, 2019, 08:04:06 PM
Decision understandable , timing totally perplexing ,  2 games this week then almost two weeks til next game !!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Aztech on March 09, 2019, 08:04:53 PM
Whilst I’m shocked, it does show that the owner is serious about wanting us to go up this season.

This next appointment is huge for the club.

The next appointment is indeed massive, it has to be a progressive appointment and not a short term fix until the end of the season.

If it were to be the likes of Allardyce I would be truelly astounded.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on March 09, 2019, 08:05:12 PM
we are now a national laughing stock

The decision will be lambasted by people who just see the league position, but I don’t think a lot of fans will understand it, even if they think it’s a tad soon.

How many times have we played well this season?

QPR second half
Stoke was ok
Bristol City for 20 mins having been battered
Reading was ok, shoreline flattered a little
Leeds outstanding
Ipswich ok
Swansea ok
Brentford not sure how we didn’t win
Sheffield United 2nd half
Wigan ok
Rotherham ok
Norwich ok
Bolton ok

I’m struggling since then.

Brentford and Leeds we were very good. 3 or 4 games where we have had a strong spell in the game and 8 Ok performances, most of which had little resistance.

There’s been 20 questionable games, especially recently.







Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on March 09, 2019, 08:06:01 PM
Just read he was sacked in the dressing room half an hour after the match. He then went on to THAT interview with Radio WM  :o Pretty shocking if true.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on March 09, 2019, 08:06:08 PM
Kudos to Jenkins for having the balls to make a tough decision.

Thanks to Darren Moore for his efforts.  I am just so disappointed because he’s had ample opportunities to learn but we are just getting worse.

We now still have some semblance of hope this season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 08:06:20 PM
None of this matters. It’s now all about the replacement.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: theboywiththe arabstrap on March 09, 2019, 08:08:06 PM
What I would say is that I've not seen a single post by people angry with this decision actually refuting any of the criticisms of big Dave's tactics etc.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 09, 2019, 08:09:11 PM
Been an Albion fan since you was born kid.

Sacked in the dressing room apparently ? Like I said **** off albion

Harsh, but he would have known his remit for this season. He probably knew he had to win today. Shows the board are serious about promotion, which is backed up by the players we've bought and the wages they are being paid. If he was told he needed to get automatic promotion, then he'll know he's failed, I don't see how it's Jenkins/Lai's fault that we're 9 points from second?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie38 on March 09, 2019, 08:10:50 PM
Jenkins has made mistakes previously but he has got this so right. Shame that's all links cut with big Dave now but we need to move on our next appointment is arguably the biggest and most important in the last 10 years if not more.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggy_girl89 on March 09, 2019, 08:11:20 PM
It just feels really off that we gave the likes of Pulis and Pardew how long to correct things despite fans CLEARLY wanting them both out and our results and football being beyond dire. Moore has us sat in 4th with 10 games to go and it’s bye bye after the last few disappointing results.

Look, I’ve also had my frustrations at some of his decisions (like playing Gayle out wide)/persistence at playing it out from the back etc. - but I’m in shock and saddened by the decision all the same. Feel like there’s a small group of our fans that will moan and complain about anything and everything, so he never stood a chance with them anyway. Horribly fickle that don’t represent the masses but seem to make a lot of boring noise all the same sadly.

Think it’s a terrible decision but I’m hope I’m wrong and also hope we don’t at least get Pardew 2.0 in the form of Big Sam.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on March 09, 2019, 08:12:52 PM
it's a knee jerk decision, not so long ago the club was about to extend Moore's contract. wouldn't have appointed him but I wouldn't sack him at this point of the season. MONEY is behind this surprising decision but that's what investors want in return.
haven't a clue who to expect next through the door because I didn't expect Moore to be sacked.
The owners want promotion and the riches that come with it, personally I couldn't give a toss about the Premiership where we'll get slaughtered every week.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggies_24 on March 09, 2019, 08:13:13 PM
Let’s be honest bar the Villa game we have been second best in every game we’ve played from the Rotherham game which was the week before Christmas. With the level of quality in this squad that’s poor and it was only getting worse. Today was shocking Lambert worked out what we were doing 15 minutes into the game and he had no answer to it. I’m gutted for him I really am I’ve never wanted someone to succeed so much but on the evidence of the past few weeks the players are going backwards and he didn’t look like he had any idea how to turn it around.

The next appointment needs to be right and it can’t be an old school dinosaur the game has moved on from the likes of Pulis, Hughes, Allardcye.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 09, 2019, 08:14:21 PM
Whilst I’m shocked, it does show that the owner is serious about wanting us to go up this season.

This next appointment is huge for the club.
Suddenly going to find some money then  as he?
Moore was labelled a cheap option, what will the next one be?
If it’s Allardyce we’ll go from Baggies legend to Doghead. Just let that sink in.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KYA on March 09, 2019, 08:14:35 PM
Disgusting decision and brainless what do they expect a new manager to do over the last 10 games plus I imagine that decision will guarantee we lose Harper at least the Moore out brigade will be happy.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 09, 2019, 08:14:45 PM
I am not happy to see him go, but he had every chance to change set ups, tactics and players.

I was happy to see the back of Pulis and Pardew.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on March 09, 2019, 08:15:36 PM
The King is dead, long live the King (Slavisa Jokanovic)?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wabooz on March 09, 2019, 08:18:25 PM
Love Darren the man, but honestly, this team is going nowhere under his stewardship.

We've won games based on having some quality players at time snatching points. Rarely have we played well, rarely has the team looked cohesive. We've played many teams who pass better than us, have better touch, have more direction and seem to know what they're doing. Our players often look lost and there hasn't been much if any improvement technically & coaching-wise throughout the season. And that's without going into tactic, formation, player and substitution choices. There has been a lot of games where we have just "gotten away with it". Worse than that, we make the same mistakes repeatedly, week after week. What is going on with the coaching?

It's not all about results and league position for me - it's about a team that is going somewhere, a manager who is trying to achieve something with his team - and that aspect improving over time. If a coach comes in and wants to play beautiful football for example, I want to see players get better at passing, moving, showing for the ball etc. I have not seen us improve or even have a general direction of what we are trying to do - as I said, the players often look completely lost. They don't look motivated, confident, or aggressive at all - and like it or not, these things are the responsibility of the coach. Speaking of aggression, remember the Leeds CB pumping up the crowd after winning a goal kick? Imagine one of our players doing that? Nah, I can't.

I'm sorry it didn't work out for Darren, but the team isn't going anywhere and no real progress is being made in terms of building a good football team. Bad or good results come and go - but coaching improvement, strong mentality, and the green shoots of promise are a must.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 09, 2019, 08:21:04 PM
I am not happy to see him go, but he had every chance to change set ups, tactics and players.

I was happy to see the back of Pulis and Pardew.
Best hope the next ones not in the same mould then mate. At least Moore tried to play football.
Can’t wait to hear the views of the Moore out brigade if they appoint Allardyce, Moyes or Hughes.
I’d apply myself but I wouldn’t get a look in because I already have a job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 09, 2019, 08:28:14 PM
I dont recall being as angry and embarrassed by West Bromwich Albion as i feel right now.

People saying dont blame the fans, i do partly, there has been an arrogance from some of our fans about us that we would win this league based on players past reputations. The National media are right, our fans have become arrogant, Robbie Savage was on about it just, he said we moaned about Pulis because of his style, we moaned about Pardew and now we have moaned about Darren Moore.

For the past two seasons this group of players have got worse, they are getting older and are on their way down the other side from their peak, by being in the championship it has gave them a bit of breathing space.

They proved last season that they arent premier league players, they finished bottom, they werent good enough. They got Pulis sacked, they got Pardew sacked and now Moore has been sacked, all in barely 18 months, you couldnt fault their effort under Moore, but again, they just arent good enough, that isnt the managers fault.

As a new coach who gave us a miracle hope of staying up last season i would of thought people would of maybe had concerns over his experience but give him a fair chance, if this forum is anything to go by from day one vs Bolton of this season people couldnt wait to say he wasnt up to the job.

He took over a squad that had three years of the most anti football known to man and was trying to get us trying things a different way, he has been given 7 months to do that and by being 4th in probably the most competitive league in the country i wouldnt say that was failing too much.

Of course he made mistakes, think every Albion fan would admit that but so does every coach in the world, the last few weeks has been a concern but its highlighted that the group of players arent good enough, yet as of two weeks ago had we beat Sheffield United we would of been joint top.

Februarys run of results was poor but this is the first time we have had any sort of 'crisis' under Moore and yet he hasnt been given chance to turn it round, instead he has been sacked at the first opportunity, its disgusting.

Supposedly being 2nd highest scorers in the league, i think joint best away record in the league, losing probably the leagues best player, he has just been 'papering over the cracks' whatever that means.

Based on how some of our fans have judged Moore then i hope the new managers teams -

Scores plenty of goals
Keeps clean sheets
Ensures we are top of the league
Promotes youth players
Manages to turn round the form, pace and ability of around 50% of the squad which has been on the decline for the last two years
Says Fascinating thought provoking stuff in their interviews to give fans a hardon

Oh and all this needs to be done whilst playing entertaining football and needs to be achieved within say 2 games? Because thats about when Darren Moore was already being classed as 'not upto the job', 'out his depth' 'clueless' etc, etc, etc so i assume that is the criteria for every Albion manager?

Personally i hope we stay down, get rid of most of this squad who have got three managers sacked in 18 months, promote some of our youth and get younger and hungry players in and try and build a bit of identity instead of the laughing stock we have become, i would of like to of seen Moore at least given the chance to do that, but one thing i hope more than anything is some of our fan base have a reality check and lose the arrogance and instant success attitude.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 08:30:52 PM
I dont recall being as angry and embarrassed by West Bromwich Albion as i feel right now.

People saying dont blame the fans, i do partly, there has been an arrogance from some of our fans about us that we would win this league based on players past reputations. The National media are right, our fans have become arrogant, Robbie Savage was on about it just, he said we moaned about Pulis because of his style, we moaned about Pardew and now we have moaned about Darren Moore.

For the past two seasons this group of players have got worse, they are getting older and are on their way down the other side from their peak, by being in the championship it has gave them a bit of breathing space.

They proved last season that they arent premier league players, they finished bottom, they werent good enough. They got Pulis sacked, they got Pardew sacked and now Moore has been sacked, all in barely 18 months, you couldnt fault their effort under Moore, but again, they just arent good enough, that isnt the managers fault.

As a new coach who gave us a miracle hope of staying up last season i would of thought people would of maybe had concerns over his experience but give him a fair chance, if this forum is anything to go by from day one vs Bolton of this season people couldnt wait to say he wasnt up to the job.

He took over a squad that had three years of the most anti football known to man and was trying to get us trying things a different way, he has been given 7 months to do that and by being 4th in probably the most competitive league in the country i wouldnt say that was failing too much.

Of course he made mistakes, think every Albion fan would admit that but so does every coach in the world, the last few weeks has been a concern but its highlighted that the group of players arent good enough, yet as of two weeks ago had we beat Sheffield United we would of been joint top.

Februarys run of results was poor but this is the first time we have had any sort of 'crisis' under Moore and yet he hasnt been given chance to turn it round, instead he has been sacked at the first opportunity, its disgusting.

Supposedly being 2nd highest scorers in the league, i think joint best away record in the league, losing probably the leagues best player, he has just been 'papering over the cracks' whatever that means.

Based on how some of our fans have judged Moore then i hope the new managers teams -

Scores plenty of goals
Keeps clean sheets
Ensures we are top of the league
Promotes youth players
Manages to turn round the form, pace and ability of around 50% of the squad which has been on the decline for the last two years
Says Fascinating thought provoking stuff in their interviews to give fans a hardon

Oh and all this needs to be done whilst playing entertaining football and needs to be achieved within say 2 games? Because thats about when Darren Moore was already being classed as 'not upto the job', 'out his depth' 'clueless' etc, etc, etc so i assume that is the criteria for every Albion manager?

Personally i hope we stay down, get rid of most of this squad who have got three managers sacked in 18 months, promote some of our youth and get younger and hungry players in and try and build a bit of identity instead of the laughing stock we have become, i would of like to of seen Moore at least given the chance to do that, but one thing i hope more than anything is some of our fan base have a reality check and lose the arrogance and instant success attitude.

Spot on, still can't believe the arrogance of our fans this year. The whole "best team in the league" has been embarrassing. I hate to say it but Barns was our Jack Grealish.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on March 09, 2019, 08:32:57 PM
Disgusted by this and I will remain disgusted by this regardless of who appoint whether we go up or stay down.

 Players need to take a long hard look at themselves some of them have worked their way through more Head Coaches than I've had hot dinners and we still see the same mistakes the same lapses of concentration the same sloppy attitude and every time a coach pays with their job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: smosher34 on March 09, 2019, 08:34:24 PM
Totally the right decision we have got worse and Moore Jones are not learning from there mistakes. Today was embarrassing to watch and did you see how many fans left on 80 minutes.  Shame he's gone but the correct outcome.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Trigger on March 09, 2019, 08:34:41 PM
Garry Monk anyone?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on March 09, 2019, 08:34:47 PM
So losing 4-0 at Leeds and then being outplayed on our home turf by Ipswich, millions in debt and scraping the barrel with youth players, freebies and loans is acceptable?

Let’s face it he lost the dressing room and players were starting to rebel.  What other option was there?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wabooz on March 09, 2019, 08:36:05 PM
Just on another point - look at Norwich; can barely even name anyone in their squad.

Look how well they've done and how they keep going relentlessly. Fantastic coaching and management.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 09, 2019, 08:36:41 PM
b
Love Darren the man, but honestly, this team is going nowhere under his stewardship.

We've won games based on having some quality players at time snatching points. Rarely have we played well, rarely has the team looked cohesive. We've played many teams who pass better than us, have better touch, have more direction and seem to know what they're doing. Our players often look lost and there hasn't been much if any improvement technically & coaching-wise throughout the season. And that's without going into tactic, formation, player and substitution choices. There has been a lot of games where we have just "gotten away with it". Worse than that, we make the same mistakes repeatedly, week after week. What is going on with the coaching?

It's not all about results and league position for me - it's about a team that is going somewhere, a manager who is trying to achieve something with his team - and that aspect improving over time. If a coach comes in and wants to play beautiful football for example, I want to see players get better at passing, moving, showing for the ball etc. I have not seen us improve or even have a general direction of what we are trying to do - as I said, the players often look completely lost. They don't look motivated, confident, or aggressive at all - and like it or not, these things are the responsibility of the coach. Speaking of aggression, remember the Leeds CB pumping up the crowd after winning a goal kick? Imagine one of our players doing that? Nah, I can't.

I'm sorry it didn't work out for Darren, but the team isn't going anywhere and no real progress is being made in terms of building a good football team. Bad or good results come and go - but coaching improvement, strong mentality, and the green shoots of promise are a must.
Let's hope the next bloke delivers both then.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 08:37:29 PM
So losing 4-0 at Leeds and then being outplayed on our home turf by Ipswich, millions in debt and scraping the barrel with youth players, freebies and loans is acceptable?

Let’s face it he lost the dressing room and players were starting to rebel.  What other option was there?

Scapegoat. Loads of injuries, club failed to replace Barns. We are still 4th, he has a win ratio of nearly 50%.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on March 09, 2019, 08:38:16 PM
Shocked,saddened but not surprised.
Good luck for the future big Dave.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 09, 2019, 08:38:33 PM
Disgusted by this and I will remain disgusted by this regardless of who appoint whether we go up or stay down.

 Players need to take a long hard look at themselves some of them have worked their way through more Head Coaches than I've had hot dinners and we still see the same mistakes the same lapses of concentration the same sloppy attitude and every time a coach pays with their job.
but coaches kept picking them, Moore was to loyal to the senior players
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: richjonawba on March 09, 2019, 08:38:59 PM
Scapegoat. Loads of injuries, club failed to replace Barns. We are still 4th, he has a win ratio of nearly 50%.

Scapegoat? Out of interest, did you go to the match today?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 09, 2019, 08:39:48 PM
Disagree. Moore said it was decision to keep most of the squad together, the board backed him and backed him again with the January decisions. Very short-termist from all involved, fail to get promoted this season and we're screwed. I was praying for us to go down the foreign scouting and young players route in the summer, if we'd rebuilt like that then I think fans would have been more patient. Moore and the board chose the other option and we've got a squad of 30 year old Prem players on Prem wages, so we need instant returns, you can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 09, 2019, 08:40:15 PM
Thats the problem, our squad are names but are living off past reputations, they arent very good any more as recent games under pressure has shown.

When the pressure was off at the end of last season and the start of this they shown they were just fine, sadly for the people who have had to manage them, football is about performing when it really counts and our lot arent up to it.

Last year Norwich fans wanted Farke out, their board fortunately remained calm and ignored them and look at them now.

I would imagine any manager worth this salt who is not just looking for a payday will view the Albion job with caution, we are a joke how many managers we sack.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on March 09, 2019, 08:41:07 PM
Toxic atmosphere at the hawthorns, fans have been shocking last few home games.

The fans are not to blame for Darren Moore losing his job, Darren Moore and his staff are to blame for them losing their jobs. To blame the fans is a cheap shot.

Home problems started in the first game, his tactical naivety and stubbornness shone through on too many occasions and his reliance on Graeme Jones backfired.

He only changed things when he was forced too, the injuries to Brunt and Bartley forced change and it luckily for him worked out. We are so predictable especially at home, loyalty to out of form players, poor substitutions cost him and if he wasn't Darren Moore with his Albion connections fans would have turned a long time ago.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 08:41:31 PM
Scapegoat? Out of interest, did you go to the match today?

Do you seriously believe the decision was made on one game, where we drew against a team fighting for their life?

Loosing Barns lost us the midfield and the three we signed are not good enough.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wbawill on March 09, 2019, 08:41:43 PM
In shock at the decision and don't agree with it at all. We were having to revamp the squad and style of play, that was never going to be possible quickly. A couple of weeks ago we had a chance to go joint top - things haven't gone right recently but he deserved the chance to turn it around and see if he could get us up through the play offs. I don't think any manager named so far is inspiring or better than Big Dave, so unless the club pulls a rabbit out of a very left field hat, replacing him at this point will prove a mistake.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on March 09, 2019, 08:42:18 PM
On paper, who has the best team in the PL? Manchester City. What do we base it on? Cost of players, quality of players, experience of players, wages of players, expectations of the club.

Use this reasoning for why fans, myself included, have said we have the best team in this league. It's nothing to do with arrogance or past reputations. It's to do with the assets we have and our expectations compared to other teams in the league. Lots of teams are heading into administration, or having points deducted, can't pay wages. We're not.

Let's not pretend that the fans are to blame. Recently, fans have been saying he needs to learn from his mistakes or he needs to go. But there have been no "Moore out" signs at the ground. No booing him. We listened two weeks ago when he asked for the support against Sheffield Utd. We've done our part and the fact that the ground has been 22,000+ for most games shows that. He has not been up to the task and he hasn't learned from his mistakes. It's that simple. Getting back to the PL is the club's priority. Not being sentimental.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on March 09, 2019, 08:43:06 PM
Scapegoat. Loads of injuries, club failed to replace Barns. We are still 4th, he has a win ratio of nearly 50%.

Loads of injuries what?  We signed more players than any other team. 

Darren Moore lacked authority and confidence as a leader.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 08:43:48 PM
Loads of injuries what?  We signed more players than any other team. 

Darren Moore lacked authority and confidence as a leader.

What defenders did we have on the bench today? Phillips is clearly not fit. Brunt and Morrison as well  And our best player went back to Leicester.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on March 09, 2019, 08:47:01 PM
What defenders did we have on the bench today?

I’ve already told you Ipswich are bottom, millions in debt and you are talking about defensive options from the bench?  Jeez.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 09, 2019, 08:48:04 PM
The atmosphere at home games has been awful all season, fans of other clubs will vouch for that and reguarly point out how s**t our support is, the fans are the ones who create / break the atmosphere so for that they are to blame.

I blame the players more than anybody but if you were a footballer would you want to play in front of the Albion crowd this season? To hear the constant groans and moans every mistake thats made, have your goalie being jeered from the 2nd or 3rd match of the season?

It happens at a lot of clubs but considering until a couple of weeks ago we were always within a few points of the top, the atmosphere has been rubbish since the first game.

I am sure there will be some but how many other managers have been sacked when 4th in the league?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 09, 2019, 08:48:40 PM
Some people say he lost dressing room, if that's the case then it's that bloody click that have been at this club way too long.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on March 09, 2019, 08:48:48 PM
What defenders did we have on the bench today? Phillips is clearly not fit. Brunt and Morrison as well  And our best player went back to Leicester.

Morrison and Brunt have been fit for a few weeks, came out of their mouths. Morrison told me he just wasn't getting a look in, that  was the day before the Leeds game. However they are NOT the answer. In this league we need legs in the middle with the exception being Barry who until last couple of games along with Barnes has been the best performer of the season.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: richjonawba on March 09, 2019, 08:48:55 PM
Do you seriously believe the decision was made on one game, where we drew against a team fighting for their life?

Loosing Barns lost us the midfield and the three we signed are not good enough.

No I don’t, but it was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. He’s looked tactically inept all season, we haven’t won since December at home, we have just lost to two of our promotion rivals in a row AND today we were an absolute shambles because of his tactical choices. I’d struggle to argue against his dismissal.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 08:50:40 PM
I’ve already told you Ipswich are bottom, millions in debt and you are talking about defensive options from the bench?  Jeez.

Nice bit of editing what I said  ::)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 08:53:45 PM
Morrison and Brunt have been fit for a few weeks, came out of their mouths. Morrison told me he just wasn't getting a look in, that  was the day before the Leeds game. However they are NOT the answer. In this league we need legs in the middle with the exception being Barry wsho until last couple of games along with Barnes has been the best performer of the season.

Good to know about Morrison and Brunt, great servents. Should shut up some of the boo boys saying he was to loyal to the old guard.

I stand by the problem we have is the loss of Barns and Phillips giving those legs we needed in the middle. Loosing those two was the difference between the two leads performances. Team's don't fear our midfield anymore and starve our strikers.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: richjonawba on March 09, 2019, 08:54:42 PM
Good to know about Morrison and Brunt, great servents. Should shut up some of the boo boys saying he was to loyal to the old guard.

I stand by the problem we have is the loss of Barns and Phillips giving those legs we needed in the middle. Loosing those two was the difference between the two leads performances. Team's don't fear our midfield anymore and starve our strikers.

The problem was Moore playing the same system after they left despite us not having the personnel
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 09, 2019, 08:56:51 PM
Thats the problem, our squad are names but are living off past reputations, they arent very good any more as recent games under pressure has shown.

When the pressure was off at the end of last season and the start of this they shown they were just fine, sadly for the people who have had to manage them, football is about performing when it really counts and our lot arent up to it.

Last year Norwich fans wanted Farke out, their board fortunately remained calm and ignored them and look at them now.

I would imagine any manager worth this salt who is not just looking for a payday will view the Albion job with caution, we are a joke how many managers we sack.

I disagree again, there are very few players in this league with the quality of Gayle, Gibbs, Barry, Hegazi, JRod etc. If they were all living on past reputations, that is something I'd expect the head coach to address when building his squad, so even if I agreed with you I'd level that at Moore instead.

There has to be a reason why we're playing consistently poorly yet trundling along in 4th. Either the players are holding back the head coach, or the head coach is holding back the players. I know which one my money's on. Either way, we'll find out in the next 10 games.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albertbaggie on March 09, 2019, 08:58:05 PM
Absolutely gutted for Big Dave. Just don't get why you appoint a manager cutting his teeth in management  for the first time, if you are then going to axe him at the first sign of concern. You either give him time to develop/make mistakes and learn from them .... or go for experience in the first place!
This club's board, owners just don't seem to know what they want.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 08:58:44 PM
The problem was Moore playing the same system after they left despite us not having the personnel

Yet we signed three attacking players who were not good enough to fill those holes. As I will keep saying he has been made a scapegoat.

Do we not follow the same academy setup as Southampton and England now where all youth groups play the same style so they can step up easier?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Westie on March 09, 2019, 08:58:52 PM
Outrageous decision. Darren Moore was not running the recruitment side of the club, so what was he supposed to do, make a silk purse out of a pigs ear? The hierarchy of the Club are to blame, from the absentee in China, though Jenkins and his ‘team’.

To think that an Albion legend, a decent man has been scapegoated while that chinaman still is ‘associated’ with the Club is just awful. I am now inclined not to attend any more matches or to renew my ST until that horrible little man’s association with West Bromwich Albion is over. There will be no success while he owns the Club, as I have said many a time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Aztech on March 09, 2019, 09:01:05 PM
John Percy

“It is understood Jones has agreed to take over at Luton Town in the summer, raising doubts internally over his commitment”.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggy_girl89 on March 09, 2019, 09:02:52 PM
I am truly disgusted with my club.

Can’t even be bothered to start with some of the ‘fans’.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: richjonawba on March 09, 2019, 09:03:56 PM
Yet we signed three attacking players who were not good enough to fill those holes. As I will keep saying he has been made a scapegoat.

Do we not follow the same academy setup as Southampton and England now where all youth groups play the same style so they can step up easier?

Yes we did and they weren’t, so he should’ve changed the formation to suit the players, like any manager worth his salt would. That 4-3-3 with the midfielders we have relies  on one of the front three creating something out of nothing, Barnes did that, we haven’t had it since January but we’ve continued to play the same way.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on March 09, 2019, 09:04:29 PM
Too soon for me.

I get the business case - I doubt there are any Albion fans who were confident in us getting promotion any more. We had stalled afrom being unconvincing winners to unconvincing-going through the motions-mid table club types. Moore was no longer getting the best out of one of the better squads in the division and today we were outplayed by the worst team in the division.

Despite this, it was still too soon.

This, following the local media articles in the last few days, suggests a far more perilous situation than is being reported. Lai and the Chinese investors are starting to panic. It is a worrying sign.

Gutted to see a club legend go this way
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 09, 2019, 09:05:07 PM
I would say Gibbs definitely, possibly Hegazi (poor last season) Phillips (injured a lot) Jrod (based on his goals this season) out of our own players could step up and play premier league, Harper potentially. The rest i would have major doubts over but some will get moves based on past reputations.

On a side note, john percy said graeme jones had agreed to take over luton in the summer and that has caused friction the last few weeks.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on March 09, 2019, 09:05:19 PM
Yet we signed three attacking players who were not good enough to fill those holes. As I will keep saying he has been made a scapegoat.

Do we not follow the same academy setup as Southampton and England now where all youth groups play the same style so they can step up easier?

The manager needs to define a style a formation to fit the players.  Everyman and his dog knew we'd be less creative without Barnes therefore we needed to tighten up defensively, he failed to address it
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on March 09, 2019, 09:07:22 PM
Absolutely gutted for Big Dave. Just don't get why you appoint a manager cutting his teeth in management  for the first time, if you are then going to axe him at the first sign of concern. You either give him time to develop/make mistakes and learn from them .... or go for experience in the first place!
This club's board, owners just don't seem to know what they want.

Thats a good point. Also, why not have a really experienced assistant instead of Jones who seemed to confuse things a lot and obviously wants to be a boss in his own right
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 09, 2019, 09:08:17 PM
Every manager has to look over his shoulder.
None of their jobs are guaranteed.
A terrible run has ended Darren's management at the Albion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on March 09, 2019, 09:09:01 PM
John Percy

“It is understood Jones has agreed to take over at Luton Town in the summer, raising doubts internally over his commitment”.

It's a shame Jones didn't leave for Luton first time as he was as bad as Darren.  Moore should have stood up to his constant bull.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 09, 2019, 09:14:59 PM
The manager needs to define a style a formation to fit the players.  Everyman and his dog knew we'd be less creative without Barnes therefore we needed to tighten up defensively, he failed to address it

To do what? Play Pulis ball and be on the same points as Boro, Pulis is the expert at that style and we are above him.

The next manager will have a real job on his hands, it looks like the 40 points and give up mentality is still alive in the club and our top players are already looking for an escape route.

Im saying it one last time then I'm logging off for the night.

SCAPEGOAT!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 09:19:23 PM
Seems it’s a possible that he did the interview after being sacked.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on March 09, 2019, 09:20:11 PM
To do what? Play Pulis ball and be on the same points as Boro, Pulis is the expert at that style and we are above him.

The next manager will have a real job on his hands, it looks like the 40 points and give up mentality is still alive in the club and our top players are already looking for an escape route.

Im saying it one last time then I'm logging off for the night.

SCAPEGOAT!

A good manager should react to different scenarios and situations.  Whoever mentioned Pulis? It is OK to define a new way of playing mid season if that befits your squad of players.  It is called utilising the best of your resources and being intelligent.

We played the same way were too open and totally unorganised. Culminating with being embarrassed by Ipswich.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: up_the_baggies on March 09, 2019, 09:21:16 PM
Incredibly saddened by this. I can’t understand why you’d take on an inexperienced manager if you weren’t prepared to accept he needed time to adapt to his first management role.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 09, 2019, 09:25:54 PM
Think owners just cottoned on to fact that their investment could go south.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggie79 on March 09, 2019, 09:28:26 PM
I can tell you 100% he was already sacked yesterday and was just keeping up appearances.

I never wanted him to get the job but not because he didnt deserve it but the fact that at some point he would be kicked out of the club never to return.

The club are a disgrace full stop, I give up....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: alex1 on March 09, 2019, 09:32:30 PM
Its sad that football bosses and fans, have become so impatient that managers get fired so easily. I wasn't there today, and I'm sure the performance was one of our poorest this season, but still think he should have been allowed a bit more time, as he's achieved alot. Every team goes through dips in form every season, even the best of them. 
Feel for DM as he's obviously a very sincere bloke, with a genuine passion for the club.
You'd assume that the board have someone lined up who can make the difference, wouldn't you?

   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on March 09, 2019, 09:38:52 PM
why would you sack a manager 7 days after your last game and on the eve of the next one. this clubs made some weird choices in my lifetime but that's one i can't work out at all.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ajt33 on March 09, 2019, 09:42:03 PM

It's sad to see a club legend lose his position like this but for me he should never have been given the job on a permanent basis last May and I said so at the time. I always felt he was out of his depth and so it proved to be.

Recent results have been shocking, especially at home which has left us distant from an automatic promotion spot. With a play-off spot also under threat action needed to be taken. It seems the players had lost confidence in his "plan A" and poor in-game management, and with that being the case we would have had little hope in the play-offs.

A sad but correct decision.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: andibaggy on March 09, 2019, 09:44:18 PM
Think owners just cottoned on to fact that their investment could go south.

I deal with Chinese businesses at work.

Sackings are very common for their employees who are sent from a China to the UK, they work 16-18hr days compared to the contracted hours their British colleagues work on Chinese contracts.

What relevance does this have- when I ask why X or Y has been sacked it is purely a financial decision, they are ruthless and will not accept anything but their target, if it isn’t going that way they sack and replace.

It’s all about ROI, he didn’t buy us because he had been a childhood fan, it’s a business to him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wbarenno on March 09, 2019, 09:46:02 PM
It's sad to see a club legend lose his position like this but for me he should never have been given the job on a permanent basis last May and I said so at the time. I always felt he was out of his depth and so it proved to be.

Recent results have been shocking, especially at home which has left us distant from an automatic promotion spot. With a play-off spot also under threat action needed to be taken. It seems the players had lost confidence in his "plan A" and poor in-game management, and with that being the case we would have had little hope in the play-offs.

A sad but correct decision.

You mean the play off spot that looks better then it did at 3pm today ? As bad as we were today were in a better position then we were at 3pm
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on March 09, 2019, 09:46:36 PM
Totally understand it but this is a very sad day , personally think he needed an older head along side him not Jones .
The players can have a look at themselves and the Club itself too especially using Moore as a PR machine at every chance .
Thank you Darren and good luck with whatever is next.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 09, 2019, 09:47:52 PM
I deal with Chinese businesses at work.

Sackings are very common for their employees who are sent from a China to the UK, they work 16-18hr days compared to the contracted hours their British colleagues work on Chinese contracts.

What relevance does this have- when I ask why X or Y has been sacked it is purely a financial decision, they are ruthless and will not accept anything but their target, if it isn’t going that way they sack and replace.

It’s all about ROI, he didn’t buy us because he had been a childhood fan, it’s a business to him.
So what will be the new blokes target? Automatic presumably as we were destined for play offs anyway and will be get the sack of he fails? If so who would want the job?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KYA on March 09, 2019, 09:53:46 PM
My love of football has been on the decline since the Premiership formed all about money and status and today just summed that up. We have a chairman who couldn't give a toss about the club just about making money and we are a plaything he will soon get bored of.
Big Dave may not have been the best coach but we couldn't doubt his commitment and love of the club a sad sad day and my love of football is all but extinguished it's grubby and dirty in a country where everyone is always at each other throats.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on March 09, 2019, 09:57:01 PM
So what will be the new blokes target? Automatic presumably as we were destined for play offs anyway and will be get the sack of he fails? If so who would want the job?
there'll never be a shortage of people wanting a £20 k pw job. even if it damages their reputation they'll take the chance. the merry go round of managers proves it. you don't particularly have to be good or successful to get a managers position.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on March 09, 2019, 10:05:12 PM
Absolutely torn on what to think. On the one hand I wanted and willed him Moore to turn it around himself.

I’d have given him 1 more week.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 09, 2019, 10:06:45 PM
Awful decision. The club could at least given him the chance to see if we'd go up via the play offs. We deserve all the national abuse we'll get for this.
National abuse ?, really, nice guy gets fired for being poor at his job, happens all the time in all walks of life. Who cares what non
Albion people think about it?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on March 09, 2019, 10:13:03 PM
Been out tonight and only just seen this, I am gutted for Darren, I cannot help but think that Graham Jones was a mistake,  just hope that the club has a plan ready to implement
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 09, 2019, 10:29:14 PM
I deal with Chinese businesses at work.

Sackings are very common for their employees who are sent from a China to the UK, they work 16-18hr days compared to the contracted hours their British colleagues work on Chinese contracts.

What relevance does this have- when I ask why X or Y has been sacked it is purely a financial decision, they are ruthless and will not accept anything but their target, if it isn’t going that way they sack and replace.

It’s all about ROI, he didn’t buy us because he had been a childhood fan, it’s a business to him.
I also have worked with Oriental people.
I think I also noticed that they do not like to "lose face".
I had to dismiss an employee because his work was so poor.
I was accused of racialism and not liking foreigners etc.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 09, 2019, 10:35:25 PM
A bitter pill to swallow.
His guts must be churning....

Darren was thrown in at the deep end.
When he relaxes over the next few months, and thinks about his future, he can move forward witha great CV.
He can re-enter the management market with his head held high and then progress with experience.
This is all a learning curve.
All the best to him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 09, 2019, 10:35:52 PM
The sacking is knee jerk - you cannot keep sacking a manager every time your form takes a dip - otherwise we’ll have two and three managers a years it also laughable that Moore gets the sack now for not achieving promotion given the rubbish hand he was dealt at the start of the season.

Moore may have been naive, but given he saved us from a Sunderland style relegation , he deserved the opportunity to rebuild this football club. All this talk of a long term project has proved to be complete and utter balls.

The other big mistake Moore made was the choosing of Jones over Shakespeare - Moore needed that experienced hand rather than relying on an individual with a patchy record previously whose footballing beliefs was the polar opposite to his own - it often showed.

The man remains a hero, and I’m gutted it ends this way. This might be the heat of the emotions, but for me, given everything this season & the recent rubbish with season tickets, Jenkins and Lai can do one.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 09, 2019, 10:42:49 PM
The sacking is knee jerk - you cannot keep sacking a manager every time your form takes a dip - otherwise we’ll have two and three managers a years it also laughable that Moore gets the sack now for not achieving promotion given the rubbish hand he was dealt at the start of the season.

Moore may have been naive, but given he saved us from a Sunderland style relegation , he deserved the opportunity to rebuild this football club. All this talk of a long term project has proved to be complete and utter balls.

The other big mistake Moore made was the choosing of Jones over Shakespeare - Moore needed that experienced hand rather than relying on an individual with a patchy record previously whose footballing beliefs was the polar opposite to his own - it often showed.

The man remains a hero, and I’m gutted it ends this way. This might be the heat of the emotions, but for me, given everything this season & the recent rubbish with season tickets, Jenkins and Lai can do one.
agree that Jenkins and Lai should do one but Moore was to loyal to a bunch of over paid pre Madonnas who have left him down.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hong Kong Phooey on March 09, 2019, 10:45:10 PM
Results and performances have been poor of late

Slightly shocked at his sacking though...

If promotion was the objective then surely he deserved the chance to see the season out...we are 9 points of automatic not 9 points outside the playoff places  ???
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on March 09, 2019, 10:49:19 PM
Agree we are sitting in the play off places, it’s not the time to sack him now, the owners have knee jerked and I worry that we have know got a vacuum and no plan.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: cheesyknackers on March 09, 2019, 10:49:51 PM
Surprised but massively relieved ....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on March 09, 2019, 10:50:48 PM
Agree we are sitting in the play off places, it’s not the time to sack him now, the owners have knee jerked and I worry that we have know got a vacuum and no plan.
I'd be worried if they hadn't have acted
Moore didn't have a plan , that was clear, Jones plan was to run off to Luton ..

The board have acted decisively and deserve praise for it
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 09, 2019, 10:51:42 PM
Agree we are sitting in the play off places, it’s not the time to sack him now, the owners have knee jerked and I worry that we have know got a vacuum and no plan.
even these idiots have some one lined up   :o
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on March 09, 2019, 10:53:41 PM
even these idiots have some one lined up   :o
Let’s hope that they have
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on March 09, 2019, 10:58:40 PM
I assume that a big part of it is that we will probably make the playoffs whatever, but that Moore would not be the right man for that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 11:02:35 PM
This seems bizarre, never heard of this happening before  ??? I trust you because you know your stuff, but if this is true then it's really very sad/unprofessional and explains the performance today.

Excellent point.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on March 09, 2019, 11:06:27 PM
Darren I hope that you read this one day, please know that I really appreciate all you have done for WBAFC as a player/ coach / manager, your persona and character have been a credit to the club and yourself
When the club was at a really low ebb you stepped into the breech and restored our pride. I am saddened that the club has taken the decision it has, and I hope that you will find it possible to forgive them at some point.
You are a strong man and I cannot believe that you will not come back stronger from this point.
Thanks Darren for all you have done on and off the pitch
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 09, 2019, 11:09:31 PM
Darren I hope that you read this one day, please know that I really appreciate all you have done for WBAFC as a player/ coach / manager, your persona and character have been a credit to the club and yourself
When the club was at a really low ebb you stepped into the breech and restored our pride. I am saddened that the club has taken the decision it has, and I hope that you will find it possible to forgive them at some point.
You are a strong man and I cannot believe that you will not come back stronger from this point.
Thanks Darren for all you have done on and off the pitch
I Reiterate what you are saying
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 09, 2019, 11:16:40 PM
agree that Jenkins and Lai should do one but Moore was to loyal to a bunch of over paid pre Madonnas who have left him down.

Hold on. You’ve been skating Moore. Now it’s the players ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on March 09, 2019, 11:34:53 PM
I suppose the key thing is 'do you think Moore was the right man going forward?'. 

Even if we got promoted there's no way we would survive the Prem, nkt even close.  If we didn't go up then we'd get rid anyway.  Like it or not we have under performed this season especially since Jan.

As unfortunate as is it is, this gives his replacement a bit of extra time and maybe a chance to turn things around.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on March 09, 2019, 11:39:31 PM
I am truly surprised by the news and have taken a little time to digest it. Even though I don’t agree with the decision and have been a supporter of Darren, the way we have played recently has been very concerning. Tactically today we were awful and to play a 2 man midfield, both of whom are defensive minded was a very strange decision to say the least.
Taking a hard nosed view you can understand that, even though we were very likely to make the playoffs, the form suggests that we would have failed there. The choice of successor is crucial and I pray that it is not one of the dinosaurs we all know only too well.

Thanks Darren and good luck.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on March 09, 2019, 11:56:52 PM
i think the decision was made as with Dave in charge we clearly were not going to make the playoffs,the game plan,tactics everything was shot if we couldn't beat Ipswich at home,seriously when was our next point coming from,its a gamble like Pardew was,that a new manager might win his first few games its a 50/50 chance ,but Dave would not have made the playoffs a great guy ,servant to the club and player, and all the very best for the future.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 10, 2019, 12:10:42 AM
Hold on. You’ve been skating Moore. Now it’s the players ?
didn't think he was doing a good job and have called him out for relying on too many senior players no matter what form they were in. When Darren got job I thought he would integrate our youngsters into his team sooner but instead he stuck with majority of senior players who basically cost him his job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: alex1 on March 10, 2019, 01:01:00 AM
I'd like to get an insider view on whether the players had stopped playing for him. I know its standard for players to be very grovelling in their praise for their managers, when talking to the media, but I did think alot of it sounded genuine.

I don't think its possible to be a successful manager if the players don't like or have respect for him. You can be the greatest football tactician worldwide, but if the players don't respect you, or you can't communicate effectively with them, its irrelevant.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 10, 2019, 01:46:55 AM
The sacking is knee jerk - you cannot keep sacking a manager every time your form takes a dip - otherwise we’ll have two and three managers a years it also laughable that Moore gets the sack now for not achieving promotion given the rubbish hand he was dealt at the start of the season.

Moore may have been naive, but given he saved us from a Sunderland style relegation , he deserved the opportunity to rebuild this football club. All this talk of a long term project has proved to be complete and utter balls.

The other big mistake Moore made was the choosing of Jones over Shakespeare - Moore needed that experienced hand rather than relying on an individual with a patchy record previously whose footballing beliefs was the polar opposite to his own - it often showed.

The man remains a hero, and I’m gutted it ends this way. This might be the heat of the emotions, but for me, given everything this season & the recent rubbish with season tickets, Jenkins and Lai can do one.

It was never a long term plan though, was it? I said as much in the summer. Bar the signing of Johnstone, I don't think there has been a single decision made at the club that had any long term thinking behind it since Pulis was dismissed. We haven't even got our best academy player signed up beyond the end of the season. We've all been deriding the short-termism of the board for years. Moore said in the summer that he wanted to keep the squad together, from that point on it was clear this season was going to be s**t or bust and I adjusted my expectations accordingly. I'm certain the board were expecting top 2 this season, that's out of the window. Couple it with Moore showing little evidence of improvement throughout the season and I don't think it's as big of as shock as it's being made out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on March 10, 2019, 02:02:09 AM
I can tell you 100% he was already sacked yesterday and was just keeping up appearances.

I never wanted him to get the job but not because he didnt deserve it but the fact that at some point he would be kicked out of the club never to return.

The club are a disgrace full stop, I give up....
WM radio had an extended programme this evening. The bloke that interviewed Darren after the game stated, categorically, that Darren was relieved of duties after the interview. I’m not disbelieving you, and it would in some way explain the deflated performance of the players, but how can you say you know 100% that the sacking was the day before? No need to go into detail, but it would be interesting to know.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on March 10, 2019, 02:08:05 AM
WM radio had an extended programme this evening. The bloke that interviewed Darren after the game stated, categorically, that Darren was relieved of duties after the interview. I’m not disbelieving you, and it would in some way explain the deflated performance of the players, but how can you say you know 100% that the sacking was the day before? No need to go into detail, but it would be interesting to know.


Ignore him, he's chatting pooh like so many people.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on March 10, 2019, 02:25:50 AM

Ignore him, he's chatting rubbish like so many people.
OK. I’ll get back to drinking.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Nice1Cyrille on March 10, 2019, 02:43:16 AM
It's a very simple business decision. Over the last few weeks we have lost any chance of automatic promotion. Likewise our form is getting worse week by week. I suspect the owners are looking at the financial loss if we don't go up via the playoffs which in any business is extremely worrying.
It was only ever going to be a short term appointment, unfortunately DM was the right guy at the right time at the end of last season and I suspect the owners and Jenkins have discussed a new "right guy" to try to lift the team for the playoffs.
Disappointed for DM but had to come sometime.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kie the baggie on March 10, 2019, 05:18:25 AM
Just woke up to the news, shocked but relieved
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 10, 2019, 07:23:37 AM
It's a very simple business decision. Over the last few weeks we have lost any chance of automatic promotion. Likewise our form is getting worse week by week. I suspect the owners are looking at the financial loss if we don't go up via the playoffs which in any business is extremely worrying.
It was only ever going to be a short term appointment, unfortunately DM was the right guy at the right time at the end of last season and I suspect the owners and Jenkins have discussed a new "right guy" to try to lift the team for the playoffs.
Disappointed for DM but had to come sometime.

It's a very simple decision to save face. The club failed to replace Barns or get adequate cover in for Phillips their only option was to sack him.

Moore was tasked with getting us automatic yet only had the players to win games for half the season. Yes we could of gone more defensive but only winning games gets you out of this league.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on March 10, 2019, 07:57:41 AM
Moore got the job on the basis of a good run when we were already dead last season many people voiced their concerns then. I was sceptical but I have the big man my support.

Whilst he has had his failings this season; playing Brunt cm, sticking with 2 formations too long, shoe horning rodriguez into team at all costs. I thought he squoze blood out of a stone for the most part our squad is old and vastly overrated. Not to mention he had no support in the summer with regards to signings all the players are cheap fillers or loans. I had my reservations but knew we couldn't keep chopping and changing and was happy to give big dave the season.

The be all and end all of it is that we have been in a slow steady decline since Roy Hodgson took the England job. We never upgraded Brunt and Morrison, we never replaced odemwingie we have been run on the cheap the managerial appointments have been appalling. The sad thing is we have given pulis and pardew abundant time to turn things round and yet we haven't really given big dave the same luxury.

He restored a lot of pride and began to close the gap between fans and club which had become cavernous. He tried to get us playing football and for the first half of the season whilst we had Harvey Barnes it was very enjoyable. I have also loved seeing the amount of  youth he gave a chance too. Very good player for WBA and as a manager almost 50% win rate. Should have been demoted back to coaching in the youth set
Up as he had a flair for that. Will be remembered fondly by me. Thanks for all Darren!

Hope we get the replacement right.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: koren on March 10, 2019, 07:58:08 AM
A correct decision for me.

Team form was declining slowly since Barnes left.
Lack of movement and urgency on the front, despite we still have Gayle and J-Rod, also the arrival of Murphy and Montero.
It's a difficult situation for Moore, but it's his job to adjust the game plan or tactics to fix the problem.
Also the poor defense isn't being sorted since day 1 and it became worse recently.

He deserved a lot credits to restore the pride and unity for the club last season.
But the task this season(Top 2 & automatic promotion) maybe too big for him, as a rookie manager.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BB74 on March 10, 2019, 08:28:20 AM
Russell Hoult and Johnathan Greening both piping up on Twitter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/russhoult/status/1104478775834742784?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet (https://mobile.twitter.com/russhoult/status/1104478775834742784?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet)

And

https://mobile.twitter.com/JonoGreening8/status/1104484110091849734 (https://mobile.twitter.com/JonoGreening8/status/1104484110091849734)

Correct decision for me. Maybe there were hoping to get on our payroll under Moore.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on March 10, 2019, 08:32:36 AM
i think the decision was made as with Dave in charge we clearly were not going to make the playoffs,the game plan,tactics everything was shot if we couldn't beat Ipswich at home,seriously when was our next point coming from,its a gamble like Pardew was,that a new manager might win his first few games its a 50/50 chance ,but Dave would not have made the playoffs a great guy ,servant to the club and player, and all the very best for the future.
I think its more like we probably would have scrambled into the playoffs, but need to give the new man 10 games to work out a way to get through there (even if its just bog standard 442) otherwise we would have had the same system being used, which has been busted.
I might be completely wrong on the player morale thing, but it increasingly looked like they were given fixed instructions to follow (eg playing out from the back, Gayle out wide), and it was wearing them down.  Maybe they tried to raise it with Moore and got (very nicely and politely I'm sure) fobbed off.
It's a really sad day for the club whatever, but we need to get up for the next two days and get those playoff points on the board.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elmo_in_swansea on March 10, 2019, 08:33:10 AM
He should never have been given the job after 6 or so meaningless matches at the end of last season in the first place. He was the cheap option for #skinflint Albion. I knew it would end in tears - he's been hung out to dry in my opinion. Best of luck for the future Darren
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on March 10, 2019, 08:34:27 AM
On a sentimental basis and I know there is no room for sentiment, there was so much wrong in sacking Darren when and how we did.

But on a practical and purely business basis it was the correct decision as a decline had set in and, sad to say, with little sign of it being turned round.

I was pleased when Darren was appointed as, imo, he had earned the chance. I wish him all the best in the future as he is a very decent bloke.

Does anyone know if Jones has also left the club?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: koren on March 10, 2019, 08:37:24 AM
On a sentimental basis and I know there is no room for sentiment, there was so much wrong in sacking Darren when and how we did.

But on a practical and purely business basis it was the correct decision as a decline had set in and, sad to say, with little sign of it being turned round.

I was pleased when Darren was appointed as, imo, he had earned the chance. I wish him all the best in the future as he is a very decent bloke.

Does anyone know if Jones has also left the club?
Yes. Jones and Wayne Jacobs also left.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on March 10, 2019, 08:37:40 AM
He should never have been given the job after 6 or so meaningless matches at the end of last season in the first place. He was the cheap option for #skinflint Albion. I knew it would end in tears - he's been hung out to dry in my opinion. Best of luck for the future Darren
I hope he comes back from this somewhere else, not being clever after the event, but I did say something like this when he was appointed.  On the other hand if he's been sensible he will be set up for life financially, so he can take a step back and I'm sure he'll be in demand as a coach.  Good luck Big Dave, come back and see us sometime when the dust has settled.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on March 10, 2019, 08:43:16 AM
Yes. Jones and Wayne Jacobs also left.

In that case, I believe we already have our new head coach in place all but for the announcement.

Just hope it’s Jakanovic
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on March 10, 2019, 08:55:46 AM
I’m Sorry that ultimately Darren Moore has left.  No one likes to see people lose their job.  I called him out because I saw our squad consistently underachieving.

For me his legacy from the last 12 months is a manager with a lack of authority who failed to be his own man.  I just hope he can learn from it and be a success elsewhere.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on March 10, 2019, 08:58:33 AM
WM radio had an extended programme this evening. The bloke that interviewed Darren after the game stated, categorically, that Darren was relieved of duties after the interview. I’m not disbelieving you, and it would in some way explain the deflated performance of the players, but how can you say you know 100% that the sacking was the day before? No need to go into detail, but it would be interesting to know.

Simply do not believe he was sacked the previous day then asked to manage the team on Saturday, no way
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: richjonawba on March 10, 2019, 09:03:42 AM
Simply do not believe he was sacked the previous day then asked to manage the team on Saturday, no way

I can't see it being true either. How about if we had won 5-0 yesterday, how could we have announced we had sacked Moore after that?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tegga on March 10, 2019, 09:16:30 AM
So the club have sacked Darren Moore because its looks as if he will not deliver the objective of getting back into the Premier league after one season in the championship. Let me tell them something, the team from last season were never going to be good enough to go straight back up. To me, Darren has done well to get the team to this position even though we have all questioned his methods. Look at the team, we have decent defenders and strikers who can score goals, but we have no midfield. The team are not good enough to get promotion. This is why the club have made the wrong decision in trying to get straight back up. In my opinion they should have chosen the manager that could restore the football style we all want and given him a 3 year plan to do it in.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albertbaggie on March 10, 2019, 09:30:37 AM
Russell Hoult and Johnathan Greening both piping up on Twitter.

https://mobile.twitter.com/russhoult/status/1104478775834742784?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet (https://mobile.twitter.com/russhoult/status/1104478775834742784?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet)

And

https://mobile.twitter.com/JonoGreening8/status/1104484110091849734 (https://mobile.twitter.com/JonoGreening8/status/1104484110091849734)

Correct decision for me. Maybe there were hoping to get on our payroll under Moore.

Or maybe they just think it was a harsh decision. Totally unnecessary comment.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on March 10, 2019, 09:31:23 AM
I'm not surprised by the decision but I think it's a poor one. Why do the club put so much store in getting back into the premier league? It's not as if we would have been competitive, which means it can only be about money and/or the associated "glory" of being in the "best league in the world" for Mr Lai and the Palm group.

Whoever comes in will struggle with this team. The players need to have a long hard look at themselves.

Yes Moore made mistakes but this was his first job in a very challenging league with a lot of very experienced managers.

I've heard Jokanovic and Wagner being cited as new managers. I can't see the logic when both failed so abjectly in the Premier league. Should we manage to scrape through the playoffs we'll be looking for a new manager again in November if we take on either of those two.

Might as well have stuck with Moore and let him learn his trade.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Do I not like Wolves on March 10, 2019, 09:33:09 AM
I have to say that as a fan for over 50 years i did not see that coming but the reality is that with the squad we have and the money spent (compared to the competition) means we should be miles clear  at the top of the table and we are under achieving big time, so it has to be the right decision.
You have to feel for Moore, he is a great bloke but we need somebody who is a tactician and a motivator - we need to get up this season or next.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Blowee on March 10, 2019, 09:38:10 AM
So the club have sacked Darren Moore because its looks as if he will not deliver the objective of getting back into the Premier league after one season in the championship. Let me tell them something, the team from last season were never going to be good enough to go straight back up. To me, Darren has done well to get the team to this position even though we have all questioned his methods. Look at the team, we have decent defenders and strikers who can score goals, but we have no midfield. The team are not good enough to get promotion. This is why the club have made the wrong decision in trying to get straight back up. In my opinion they should have chosen the manager that could restore the football style we all want and given him a 3 year plan to do it in.
Even though the large majority of fans will agree with you as a business I guess the owners are thinking about the cost of not returning to the Premier League. Financially, it makes more sense to get promoted and relegated than to spend 3 years out of the Premier League. It is always short term rather than a longer term strategy.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albertbaggie on March 10, 2019, 09:38:48 AM
I have to say that as a fan for over 50 years i did not see that coming but the reality is that with the squad we have and the money spent (compared to the competition) means we should be miles clear  at the top of the table and we are under achieving big time, so it has to be the right decision.
You have to feel for Moore, he is a great bloke but we need somebody who is a tactician and a motivator - we need to get up this season or next.
Can someone tell me how much we have spent though given we sold Evans, Chadli, Foster, McClean and off-loaded wages for Yacob, McAuley and Rondon ..plus wages of Burke?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 10, 2019, 09:39:55 AM
Woke up today feeling quite numb.

I detest everything the premier league stands for and had fell out of love with football whilst we were in there, going the Albion had become a chore.

Keep hearing phrases like 'its a business', 'no room for sentiment', 'have to be in the premier league for the money' which are all true but when i first started watching and playing football thats not why i did it.

As a fan, none of the above really benefits me, all it means is the players i see get bigger inflated pay packets whilst passing through our club and everything becomes about being desperate to get into a league where if all things fall into place, and we have the season of our lives, we would get to finish...........7th! I bet there was some little kid who went to the Albion for the first time yesterday and said Dad i know its far fetched but imagine if we can get upto the premier league, and one day finish 7th! The glory! His dad would of said your dreaming son, 17th is the aim!

What a load of nonsense football has become, why as fans are we so desperate to see our team go and make up the numbers? How does this extra money benefit us? We may beat one of the big boys in the odd game but overall in a season, we dont compete with in any way, where is the enjoyment in that, so what do us fans have to look forward too?

My family gets to benefit from some of the off the work programmes that the club run (none of it funded by the premier league) and its those types of things that makes me feel an attachment to the Albion still.

So with how the countrys football setup is as mundane as it is, we as fans have to look for other things, those things that do make football a bit magic again. It may be you see a player who really excites you and you know they are going onto bigger and better things - Lukau, Harvey Barnes. It may be you see one of your clubs local lads breaking through - Harper, Field (Morgan Rogers looks something special too) but there has to be something that still makes football magic when your trying to get into / stay in a competition you cant win (the premier league)

So after years of unusual appointments Mel, Irvine, Pulis and Pardew, for me personally the enthusiasm and life getting sucked out of football through a combination of the premier league and boring football, to get Darren Moore was a breath of fresh air.

The goal against Tottenham was one of the best moments for years because for the first time in ages there seemed to be a connection between the fans, players and management.

We then appointed Darren Moore and we had something most clubs crave - a local bloke, a club legend, a man who had earned his stripes by working his way up the Albion ladder finally getting a chance.

A man who was trying to introduce a passing style, was starting to introduce youngsters, was scoring lots of goals (2nd highest scorers in the league) and it seemed that even if we did get to the premier league, it may be different because we had one of us in charge, different from the managerial merry go round, a bloke who did have a vision, who knew what the youngsters coming through could do.

Of course Moore has made mistakes, loads of them, but as the best coach in world Guardiola says, he makes them everyday. Giving Guardiola as an example (i am not comparing by the way) he didnt win a trophy in his first season at Man City despite having the best squad in the league, despite the money they spent, he was implementing a new style which as his first season shows, didnt happen overnight, yet Man City stuck with him.

Darren Moore has been in or around the top 3 all season, that is credit to him, as the Guardiola reference above states, change takes time, yet even as of two weeks ago we could of gone top. The last six weeks has been poor, there has been no disputing that, but i would of hoped based on the 8 or 9 months Darren Moore had previous he would of at least been given the chance to turn it round, he wasnt given that chance.

It may of been come the end of the season we would of missed out on the playoffs, (personally i dont think we would) and at that point i think you could understand discussions about his future taking place, to not finish in the top 6 would be a failure.

If as its been rumoured he was sacked before or regardless of yesterday it would seem we have based our decision on the last two games, had we say beat Sheffield United and drew with Leeds do people still think he would of been sacked? Its unlikely, but as we lost those two games it seems a whole seasons work had been defined by those two games, despite their being just under a quarter of the season left to rectify it!

People say we were not going to make the playoffs, our position suggests otherwise, we are still 4th in the league with just a quarter of the season to get ourselves back on track, if we were halfway down the league or bottom half you could maybe understand the decision but we were in a bad run of form and what the new manager has to be aware of now is that a bad run of form at West Brom means you get the sack, because the actions have shown thats how we operate now.

After 8 years of the premier league boredom, Darren Moore had made me start to enjoy going the Albion again, of course there were frustrations, and i dont think i will ever feel as passionate about the club as i once did, probably due to a combination of getting older, premier league boredom, etc but with him in charge it gave me a bit of hope that if we were going to try and get back to the premier league we were going to do it a bit different this time, sadly it wasnt to be.

If i had to pick a realistic appointment to replace him i would probably say Jokanovic but in all honesty with how this has all panned out, i dont really care, it could be Alan Pardew again for all i give a toss.

Its not just the sacking of Darren Moore, what yesterdays actions did confirm are my worst fears that with our club now everything else goes out the window, its the premier league gravy train or nothing and to me there has to be more to football than that, unfortunately i will always support Albion as you cant switch that off but how i support them may well change as yesterday was a nail in the coffin moment, its not just because somebody was sacked, its because of what we seem to have become and stand for nowadays (and Albion are not the only club like that)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on March 10, 2019, 09:40:35 AM
I don't believe they would have sacked him the day before. Perhaps there was a meeting and he was told "fail to win against Ipswich and we're going to have to look for a new coach" but no way would he have been sacked.

I'm also amazed at how many were begging for DM to be sacked after yesterday's game and now he's gone it appears that 95% of the fan base is saying how embarrassing the decision was to sack him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on March 10, 2019, 09:41:26 AM
He should never have been given the job after 6 or so meaningless matches at the end of last season in the first place. He was the cheap option for #skinflint Albion. I knew it would end in tears - he's been hung out to dry in my opinion. Best of luck for the future Darren

I am not sure that the matches at the end of last season were 'meaningless'. Given our previous performances he very nearly pulled off the greatest escape of all time. Not in the same league I know but do you think that Solskjear will not be offered the Man Utd job after he has transformed the results and team with the same players? Darren did a similar job on a smaller scale so I can see why he was offered the role.
I am surprised and sorry that it has ended this way, but results have not been good over the past few months and I think the Mr Lai can see his investment going very south at the moment so its understandable.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on March 10, 2019, 09:42:04 AM
Blowee is right. Its not just getting to the Prem, its using that money to keep us competitive at the top of the Champ.  Look at the reams we are competing with, they've spent years having to rebuild and scramble for a competitive squad.  We should have a head start on them financially with Prem money.  it appears we don't have a chairman who will dip his hand into his pocket so the Prem money and parachutes are crucial to us staying competitive.

Somehow, we've ended up with the only Chinese businessman with no money.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggies_24 on March 10, 2019, 09:46:36 AM
I do have to laugh at the so called experts calling the decision a disgrace, how many Albion games have Linneaker, Savage, Cole etc. watched this season? I bet between them they havnt mustered a full 90 minutes. I thought Paul Stewart from the Birmingham Mail sums it up pretty well as shocking and untimely his sacking has been deep down did anyone truly believe he would find the right formula to get us up this season, we’l never know but on the evidence of the past 6 - 7 weeks you’d have to say no. The fact they reverted back to the 3 at the back and played 2 in midfield yesterday when it’s clear from earlier on in the season the defence isn’t comfortable playing 3 at the back and we’ve been overrun in midfield shows Moore & Jones had no idea and were unwilling to change the approach. Had we been playing a top 10 championship club yesterday we would have conceded 4 or 5 again.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on March 10, 2019, 09:49:19 AM
I don't believe they would have sacked him the day before. Perhaps there was a meeting and he was told "fail to win against Ipswich and we're going to have to look for a new coach" but no way would he have been sacked.

I'm also amazed at how many were begging for DM to be sacked after yesterday's game and now he's gone it appears that 95% of the fan base is saying how embarrassing the decision was to sack him.

Yes I would like to know how many of the outraged hissy fit mob boooed at 78 mins and 90 mins.

Moore will have known his cards were marked . He will have been given the nod we were sounding out other coaches , harsh but it’s the world we live in .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on March 10, 2019, 09:53:57 AM
I do have to laugh at the so called experts calling the decision a disgrace, how many Albion games have Linneaker, Savage, Cole etc. watched this season? I bet between them they havnt mustered a full 90 minutes. I thought Paul Stewart from the Birmingham Mail sums it up pretty well as shocking and untimely his sacking has been deep down did anyone truly believe he would find the right formula to get us up this season, we’l never know but on the evidence of the past 6 - 7 weeks you’d have to say no. The fact they reverted back to the 3 at the back and played 2 in midfield yesterday when it’s clear from earlier on in the season the defence isn’t comfortable playing 3 at the back and we’ve been overrun in midfield shows Moore & Jones had no idea and were unwilling to change the approach. Had we been playing a top 10 championship club yesterday we would have conceded 4 or 5 again.


We would've yes. Yesterday reminded me of when we played Southampton last season and Pardew played our two slowest players (Barry and Yacob) against Southampton's five man midfield. Absolutely, mind-numbingly stupid. Yesterday was worse. I'm not a fan of Livermore's at all but he had no chance yesterday.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 10, 2019, 09:56:09 AM
I'm not surprised by the decision but I think it's a poor one. Why do the club put so much store in getting back into the premier league? It's not as if we would have been competitive, which means it can only be about money and/or the associated "glory" of being in the "best league in the world" for Mr Lai and the Palm group.

Whoever comes in will struggle with this team. The players need to have a long hard look at themselves.

Yes Moore made mistakes but this was his first job in a very challenging league with a lot of very experienced managers.

I've heard Jokanovic and Wagner being cited as new managers. I can't see the logic when both failed so abjectly in the Premier league. Should we manage to scrape through the playoffs we'll be looking for a new manager again in November if we take on either of those two.

Might as well have stuck with Moore and let him learn his trade.

Agreed. I think we should have let him start next season regardless of what league we are at to give him the chance to shape his team and put in place the things he’d learned.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on March 10, 2019, 10:03:38 AM
Albion79 - great post.

I would have given Darren another week with the 2 more games and reassessed this time next week. I think it’s really really harsh. I don’t know if he would have turned us around however there is one thing in football that is now very rare that Moore shown us - loyalty and I wish we had reciprocated and given him a chance.

After sleeping on it those are my views, he may have ultimately failed but he earned a chance in my opinion.

On the pundits front the one that has made me laugh the most is Don Goodnan. Absolutely slates is every time he watches us, points out how obvious it is and how we’re our own worst enemies and architects of our own downfalls and is now shocked when he’s one of the people putting pressure on the board to make decisions.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 10, 2019, 10:03:56 AM
Woke up today feeling quite numb.

I detest everything the premier league stands for and had fell out of love with football whilst we were in there, going the Albion had become a chore.

Keep hearing phrases like 'its a business', 'no room for sentiment', 'have to be in the premier league for the money' which are all true but when i first started watching and playing football thats not why i did it.

As a fan, none of the above really benefits me, all it means is the players i see get bigger inflated pay packets whilst passing through our club and everything becomes about being desperate to get into a league where if all things fall into place, and we have the season of our lives, we would get to finish...........7th! I bet there was some little kid who went to the Albion for the first time yesterday and said Dad i know its far fetched but imagine if we can get upto the premier league, and one day finish 7th! The glory! His dad would of said your dreaming son, 17th is the aim!

What a load of nonsense football has become, why as fans are we so desperate to see our team go and make up the numbers? How does this extra money benefit us? We may beat one of the big boys in the odd game but overall in a season, we dont compete with in any way, where is the enjoyment in that, so what do us fans have to look forward too?

My family gets to benefit from some of the off the work programmes that the club run (none of it funded by the premier league) and its those types of things that makes me feel an attachment to the Albion still.

So with how the countrys football setup is as mundane as it is, we as fans have to look for other things, those things that do make football a bit magic again. It may be you see a player who really excites you and you know they are going onto bigger and better things - Lukau, Harvey Barnes. It may be you see one of your clubs local lads breaking through - Harper, Field (Morgan Rogers looks something special too) but there has to be something that still makes football magic when your trying to get into / stay in a competition you cant win (the premier league)

So after years of unusual appointments Mel, Irvine, Pulis and Pardew, for me personally the enthusiasm and life getting sucked out of football through a combination of the premier league and boring football, to get Darren Moore was a breath of fresh air.

The goal against Tottenham was one of the best moments for years because for the first time in ages there seemed to be a connection between the fans, players and management.

We then appointed Darren Moore and we had something most clubs crave - a local bloke, a club legend, a man who had earned his stripes by working his way up the Albion ladder finally getting a chance.

A man who was trying to introduce a passing style, was starting to introduce youngsters, was scoring lots of goals (2nd highest scorers in the league) and it seemed that even if we did get to the premier league, it may be different because we had one of us in charge, different from the managerial merry go round, a bloke who did have a vision, who knew what the youngsters coming through could do.

Of course Moore has made mistakes, loads of them, but as the best coach in world Guardiola says, he makes them everyday. Giving Guardiola as an example (i am not comparing by the way) he didnt win a trophy in his first season at Man City despite having the best squad in the league, despite the money they spent, he was implementing a new style which as his first season shows, didnt happen overnight, yet Man City stuck with him.

Darren Moore has been in or around the top 3 all season, that is credit to him, as the Guardiola reference above states, change takes time, yet even as of two weeks ago we could of gone top. The last six weeks has been poor, there has been no disputing that, but i would of hoped based on the 8 or 9 months Darren Moore had previous he would of at least been given the chance to turn it round, he wasnt given that chance.

It may of been come the end of the season we would of missed out on the playoffs, (personally i dont think we would) and at that point i think you could understand discussions about his future taking place, to not finish in the top 6 would be a failure.

If as its been rumoured he was sacked before or regardless of yesterday it would seem we have based our decision on the last two games, had we say beat Sheffield United and drew with Leeds do people still think he would of been sacked? Its unlikely, but as we lost those two games it seems a whole seasons work had been defined by those two games, despite their being just under a quarter of the season left to rectify it!

People say we were not going to make the playoffs, our position suggests otherwise, we are still 4th in the league with just a quarter of the season to get ourselves back on track, if we were halfway down the league or bottom half you could maybe understand the decision but we were in a bad run of form and what the new manager has to be aware of now is that a bad run of form at West Brom means you get the sack, because the actions have shown thats how we operate now.

After 8 years of the premier league boredom, Darren Moore had made me start to enjoy going the Albion again, of course there were frustrations, and i dont think i will ever feel as passionate about the club as i once did, probably due to a combination of getting older, premier league boredom, etc but with him in charge it gave me a bit of hope that if we were going to try and get back to the premier league we were going to do it a bit different this time, sadly it wasnt to be.

If i had to pick a realistic appointment to replace him i would probably say Jokanovic but in all honesty with how this has all panned out, i dont really care, it could be Alan Pardew again for all i give a toss.

Its not just the sacking of Darren Moore, what yesterdays actions did confirm are my worst fears that with our club now everything else goes out the window, its the premier league gravy train or nothing and to me there has to be more to football than that, unfortunately i will always support Albion as you cant switch that off but how i support them may well change as yesterday was a nail in the coffin moment, its not just because somebody was sacked, its because of what we seem to have become and stand for nowadays (and Albion are not the only club like that)

I agree with everything you say about Moore and your pride in the club. The opportunity to build something long term and special is gone. It may not have worked but it’s a shame we didn’t give it a try.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on March 10, 2019, 10:10:13 AM
Albion79 - great post.

I would have given Darren another week with the 2 more games and reassessed this time next week.


That's what I would've done as well. If we'd lost to Swansea and Brentford I would've been surprised if the owner / board didn't act.

I'm surprised we've acted as quickly as we have but not shocked.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tylerm on March 10, 2019, 10:18:02 AM
I do have to laugh at the so called experts calling the decision a disgrace, how many Albion games have Linneaker, Savage, Cole etc. watched this season? I bet between them they havnt mustered a full 90 minutes. I thought Paul Stewart from the Birmingham Mail sums it up pretty well as shocking and untimely his sacking has been deep down did anyone truly believe he would find the right formula to get us up this season, we’l never know but on the evidence of the past 6 - 7 weeks you’d have to say no. The fact they reverted back to the 3 at the back and played 2 in midfield yesterday when it’s clear from earlier on in the season the defence isn’t comfortable playing 3 at the back and we’ve been overrun in midfield shows Moore & Jones had no idea and were unwilling to change the approach. Had we been playing a top 10 championship club yesterday we would have conceded 4 or 5 again.

Spot on post. However I am pleased you could see what yesterday’s formation was as I had no idea
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 10, 2019, 10:34:10 AM
I do have to laugh at the so called experts calling the decision a disgrace, how many Albion games have Linneaker, Savage, Cole etc. watched this season? I bet between them they havnt mustered a full 90 minutes. I thought Paul Stewart from the Birmingham Mail sums it up pretty well as shocking and untimely his sacking has been deep down did anyone truly believe he would find the right formula to get us up this season, we’l never know but on the evidence of the past 6 - 7 weeks you’d have to say no. The fact they reverted back to the 3 at the back and played 2 in midfield yesterday when it’s clear from earlier on in the season the defence isn’t comfortable playing 3 at the back and we’ve been overrun in midfield shows Moore & Jones had no idea and were unwilling to change the approach. Had we been playing a top 10 championship club yesterday we would have conceded 4 or 5 again.
Well I am calling it a disgrace and I've seen every home game and 7 away games.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HamsteadHarry on March 10, 2019, 10:39:44 AM
Good luck for the future Darren- thanks for what you'done player and manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on March 10, 2019, 10:48:19 AM
I’ve not posted on here for months, which is unusual for me. My interest has been slowly ebbing away.

Darren Moore was the last element of football/West Brom that retained my interest, now that has gone, so am I. I’m disgusted.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on March 10, 2019, 10:49:04 AM
Pretty much agree with every word from Baggie79. For me this a watershed moment. The club I loved is gone and now I have to accept that it won't be coming back. Throughout the Pulis years I could believe with the right appointment and a little bit of courage things could be different. Well that notion has been laid to rest.

I absolutely did not want Darren Moore appointed I did not believe he was ready for what remains one of the most challenging roles in the Division. I feared that it would end this way. However once we had appointed him and let's not forget the club made his life even more challenging than it needed to be then we had to believe in the project warts and all.

For what it is worth while I am of a generation that started watching football 30 years before the birth of the Premier League. I don't believe I have a dewy eyed sentimentality attachment to the past. A lot of things in the old days were rubbish and some of the legacy of 30 years ago still haunts the game but the one thing that remains constant if you do the same thing and behave the same way as clubs awash with money e.g. Man United etc. with a lot less money you are going to get a bad outcome.

So here we are just a pound shop Man United.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on March 10, 2019, 10:50:21 AM
I don't believe they would have sacked him the day before. Perhaps there was a meeting and he was told "fail to win against Ipswich and we're going to have to look for a new coach" but no way would he have been sacked.

I'm also amazed at how many were begging for DM to be sacked after yesterday's game and now he's gone it appears that 95% of the fan base is saying how embarrassing the decision was to sack him.

Great post, agree with all that you say. Whatever our feelings we must now move on and hope that the next appointment is the right one.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on March 10, 2019, 10:53:07 AM
I was so excited to come back to watching West Brom 2 weeks ago after my self inflicted Pulis ban after the Astle game. I feel very saddened that they’ve pulled the trigger so quickly. Like many say Moore galvanised the club and bought back enthusiasm for me.

Too soon

My love and enthusiasm will not change but I’m probably a little more cynical now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Westie on March 10, 2019, 11:14:48 AM
Albion79, excellent post. TV money and the Premier League has ruined football for the real fans, those of us that actually go to matches rather than the fat legend arses that just consider football as TV ‘entertainment’. It’s the TV money that brought the likes of Lai into the picture, they know sod all about the game and are in it purely for their own financial gain. Whilst I never want the Albion to be relegated, it would serve our owner right if we went down to League 2 and he lost all his investment. Actually, I don’t want that for The Albion but it would serve him right.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BB74 on March 10, 2019, 11:32:36 AM
I can understand the decision. We have 25% of the season left and have a hardcore of points on board. That is more than enough to see us over the promotion line given someone experienced comes in and gets the new manager bounce and tidies a few things up.

Moore is a club legend and I wish we had time to let him learn his trade but now is not the time for a rookie to cut his teeth. I love the guy to bits but he shouldn’t have been given the job in the first place. We were damned if we gave him the job and damned if we didn’t.

Jokanovic or Allardyce for me. I must admit I’m swaying towards Allardyce only because I would have more confidence in him settling things down, getting the job done and keeping us in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on March 10, 2019, 11:36:54 AM
I can understand the decision. We have 25% of the season left and have a hardcore of points on board. That is more than enough to see us over the promotion line given someone experienced comes in and gets the new manager bounce and tidies a few things up.

Moore is a club legend and I wish we had time to let him learn his trade but now is not the time for a rookie to cut his teeth. I love the guy to bits but he shouldn’t have bern given the job in the first place. We were damned it we gave him the job and damned if we didn’t.

Jokanovic or Allardyce for me. I must admit I an swaying towards Allardyce only because I would have more confidence in him settling things down, getting the job done and keeping us in the Premier League.

We've got to get there first! lol
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BB74 on March 10, 2019, 11:39:35 AM
We've got to get there first! lol

You must have missed points 1 and 2 then...

1) settling things now - next couple of weeks
2) getting the job done - playoffs/promotion
3) staying there
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 10, 2019, 11:39:58 AM
Soon good comments about how much of a great servant he was and local lad etc etc  but the harsh reality was unfortunately he wasn’t good enough as a manager. Constantly making the same mistakes and tactics not good enough. I didn’t want him in the first place but understood why. However, I don’t understand  the timing of doing it now when automatic isn’t going to happen. Should have waited until the end of the season and if we failed at promotion then he had to go then.


Good luck Darren, hope you get the chance again at a lower league club and gain some experience.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: NJS on March 10, 2019, 11:41:55 AM
I was not positive about the appointment of DM which I thought to be for sentimental rather than football reasons and I have echoed many of the criticisms of his managership that have appeared on this site.  But I was shocked to read of his sacking.

I didn't think we would go up this year but only at the end of the season could we have established:

1) Whether the rookie DM had learned and improved over the season in terms of game management or not

2) Whether there would be a clear out of the old players

3) DM's competence at introducing young players and whether we could look forward to building a team fit to win the Championship

4) Hopefully Lai might have sold the club at a discount to someone genuinely interested in football

As a loyal servant he deserved that chance.  I only hope that the board has someone lined up to take over or the club is going to be a laughing stock.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggieboyfred on March 10, 2019, 11:53:00 AM
I am sad to see Big Dave go , whether it is right decision only time and nothing less than a promotion to premiership will tell, anybody who has ever met Big Dave will confirm what a genuine human being he is and is baggies through and through and I have never met a baggies fan who had anything but respect for the man as a player.
there is no doubt that as a manager he was on a learning curve , unfortunately that is what has caught him out, with the loss of Barnes and Phillips being injured a chunk of the time we lost the attacking edge that made us so dangerous in the first half of the season dispite a very dodgy defence
with the absence of those two players specifically , he could not or would not change his system or tactics to suit the players he had got, he certainly persisted in his three at the back which was a disaster.
I think it is fair to say that since the turn of the year our current play off position owes as much to the inconsistency of the teams below us as it does to our own efforts , and the 3 above us who have had their own little inconsistent runs  which kept us in touch with them until the SU game have put it right and will now sort out the 2 auto places between them.
Personally I think we may well have made the play offs with Big Dave whether we would have got through them  I am not sure.
To be honest from a playing perspective even if we did get promotion , that squad would have to  be dramatically overhauled to have a chance of staying in the top flight and I do not think Big Dave would be the man for that, what I would like to have happened was to keep Big Dave to the end of the season , and then whatever happened would like a change of management in close season so that Big Dave could stay at the Albion in another capacity if he so wished, with his head held high and hopefully come back into management more experienced another day.
finally I for one would like to thank Big Dave , for his contribution to the Albion over the last 20 years both as player and manager and wish him every success in the future
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Pureade1 on March 10, 2019, 11:54:06 AM
Whether i or anyone else agrees or disagrees with his sacking is another matter but all i want to say is

Big Dave you brought this club back together at a time where it was disjointed and regardless of anything else i want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on March 10, 2019, 11:57:30 AM
Well I am calling it a disgrace and I've seen every home game and 7 away games.
You will be very aware of the last 9 homes returning only one win, the crazy subs, the strange way that players are not utilised correctly the hesitance of a keeper who looks devoid of confidence , the differing instructions being ralyaed on to the pitch ...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 10, 2019, 12:02:03 PM
You will be very aware of the last 9 homes returning only one win, the crazy subs, the strange way that players are not utilised correctly the hesitance of a keeper who looks devoid of confidence , the differing instructions being ralyaed on to the pitch ...

Great post.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on March 10, 2019, 12:08:42 PM
You must have missed points 1 and 2 then...

1) settling things now - next couple of weeks
2) getting the job done - playoffs/promotion
3) staying there

I didn't. I meant let's not get ahead of ourselves. Let's focus on this season and getting promoted. Worry about next season in the summer once we know what division we're in. I do understand though that's it's a bit of a catch 22.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on March 10, 2019, 12:11:43 PM
When you look back there have been plenty highs as well as the lows , we have to respect that
The bit that really made me feel we needed to make a change and that Moore was out of his depth was after a home match (can't remember against who) and we had just signed the loanees

We hadn't played well and the reporter on WM  asked Moore why he had left out johansen (bearing in mind we had 5 other lowness in the match squad so there is the answer I was expecting)
Moore explained "when loaners come in they can't go straight in to the team, it's important that they spend time around the squad and get to know the players first"
Johansen signed a couple of days before

In that match Murphy started having signed a couple of days before
In that match. Montero was on the bench having signed a couple of days before
In that match holgate started and had done so in the cup 2 days after signing

This alone showed that the general awareness and management acumen wasn't there , really nice bloke, really good man , I wish him a long healthy and prosperous life, this guy makes people feel good.
But he is not cut out for the level of management that we require
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 10, 2019, 12:18:02 PM
You will be very aware of the last 9 homes returning only one win, the crazy subs, the strange way that players are not utilised correctly the hesitance of a keeper who looks devoid of confidence , the differing instructions being ralyaed on to the pitch ...
Easy to forget the free flowing attacking football that as got us 68 goals the 7 against QPR the 4 against Leeds and so on we have no divine right to go back up and as I've said before people who think we have the best squad in the division are sadly deluded! Darren Moore got this club back together and got an average squad performing. Problem know is our squad are ageing and to many loan players who don't have the club at heart IMO the board havent backed him and Jones was a hinderance rather than a help.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on March 10, 2019, 12:20:28 PM
Two things I could never work out about Moore's tactics, he himself was not the kind of player to be comfortable playing out from the back, so why was he so keen on it for players at his sort of level?  And secondly, as a defender, he must have been aware than if/when we lost it playing from so deep, we were essentially allowing a free run for them with virtually no chance of an offside.  Maybe it was Jones, I suppose we might find out now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on March 10, 2019, 12:31:57 PM
Easy to forget the free flowing attacking football that as got us 68 goals the 7 against QPR the 4 against Leeds and so on....

But how much of that was due to Darren Moore as opposed to the brilliance of Gayle and Barnes? Then we lose Barnes and he shoves Gayle out wide. Very harsh to sack him but it's also not too hard to make a sensible case for him going given the performances, tactics, results and form.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 10, 2019, 01:03:18 PM
The idea that early season success was purely down toGayle and Barnes, with no credit to Moore is for the birds

Credit the players in the success, vilify the gaffer in the first poor run of form..
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on March 10, 2019, 01:05:26 PM
I'm struggling to understand why anybody is shocked or upset about Darren Moore losing his job. He has had undoubtedly, the best squad in the league and automatic promotion should be the target. Darren and his team have failed and we are getting worse. The way we have continually passed it out from the back, constantly playing ourlesves into trouble on the edge of our box is criminal and sunday league standard. The persistence with this tactic and our failure to improve as time has gone on (we have actually regressed) is more than enough for me to be confident that the club have made the right decision for the club.

While some are questioning the timing, I actually think it's the perfect time. We have time now to change things and correct the glaring tactical deficiencies, to consolidate a playoff spot or even push for automatic if we can get an immediate momentum change from a new coaching setup. A few draws and losses for the teams above could open the door. With Moore in charge it wouldn't have mattered because we wouldn't have a prayer of defending well enough to win 7 or 8 on the spin. With the quality in our squad, we are capable if setup right.

I'll always have the utmost respect for Darren Moore has a human being and also as a football player, but he was simply not ready for the job on a full time basis. He needs more experience and a lot more tactical nous to be competing at this level. He deserved his chance, but ultimately he has failed. Now it's time for somebody else to get an opportunity to get the BEST SQUAD IN THE LEAGUE performing to their ability levels.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 10, 2019, 01:45:35 PM
Why do you feel its the best squad in the league?

Between march 2017 and april 2018 this squad had one of the worst records in the country, we lost games reguarly, two managers (including one who had managed a 1000 odd games) couldnt get them to improve, in fact they showed signs of getting worse.

We finished bottom last season and Had it not been for a mini revival at the end of last season when pressure was off we would of gone down as one of the worst premier league teams ever.

Out our current squad - johnstone, bartley, gayle, hrk, murphy, hoolahan and johansen have played regularly at this level in recent years, so thats 7 players out a squad of 20 plus players.

Jrod, Brunt, mears and mozza played at this level around 8-10 years ago, a lot has changed since then. Phillips and hrk did a few seasons ago, dawson and burke have played about 10 games at this level years ago.

Holgate, gibbs, tosin, gibbs, townsend, barnes, barry, livermore, field, harper, hegazi, montero, leko, edwards have never played at this level.

So over half out squad has never played at this level and we have a few who did nearly 10 years ago, a large chunk of those players had also played reguarly in a team that lost a lot of games between march 2017 and 2018 whilst playing anti football, and also are very one paced.

So where is the evidence and why are they the best squad in a league where other teams are younger, hungrier and have been together, developed and built over a couple of years?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiemart on March 10, 2019, 02:26:53 PM
I think fans class us as having the best squad in the championship on paper.  The only trouble is football isn't played on paper !!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: glosterbaggie on March 10, 2019, 02:35:34 PM
Why do you feel its the best squad in the league?

Between march 2017 and april 2018 this squad had one of the worst records in the country, we lost games reguarly, two managers (including one who had managed a 1000 odd games) couldnt get them to improve, in fact they showed signs of getting worse.

We finished bottom last season and Had it not been for a mini revival at the end of last season when pressure was off we would of gone down as one of the worst premier league teams ever.

Out our current squad - johnstone, bartley, gayle, hrk, murphy, hoolahan and johansen have played regularly at this level in recent years, so thats 7 players out a squad of 20 plus players.

Jrod, Brunt, mears and mozza played at this level around 8-10 years ago, a lot has changed since then. Phillips and hrk did a few seasons ago, dawson and burke have played about 10 games at this level years ago.

Holgate, gibbs, tosin, gibbs, townsend, barnes, barry, livermore, field, harper, hegazi, montero, leko, edwards have never played at this level.

So over half out squad has never played at this level and we have a few who did nearly 10 years ago, a large chunk of those players had also played reguarly in a team that lost a lot of games between march 2017 and 2018 whilst playing anti football, and also are very one paced.

So where is the evidence and why are they the best squad in a league where other teams are younger, hungrier and have been together, developed and built over a couple of years?
Very good post.The players we face are the ones who want to play and improve.They could go to a Prem club and sit on the bench every week.
But they are footballers and want to play.Organize them against big time charlies,past sell buy's and look at the results.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kc56wba on March 10, 2019, 02:57:08 PM
When I heard the news last night I thought Jones and Jacobs would take over but then heard they had been sacked as well. Why sack the backroom staff if you have not got replacements on the brink of joining, and if that is the case how long has this been on the boards agenda?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on March 10, 2019, 03:01:50 PM
When I heard the news last night I thought Jones and Jacobs would take over but then heard they had been sacked as well. Why sack the backroom staff if you have not got replacements on the brink of joining, and if that is the case how long has this been on the boards agenda?

Since November if you believe the Telegraph.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 10, 2019, 03:03:49 PM
I'm struggling to understand why anybody is shocked or upset about Darren Moore losing his job. He has had undoubtedly, the best squad in the league and automatic promotion should be the target. Darren and his team have failed and we are getting worse. The way we have continually passed it out from the back, constantly playing ourlesves into trouble on the edge of our box is criminal and sunday league standard. The persistence with this tactic and our failure to improve as time has gone on (we have actually regressed) is more than enough for me to be confident that the club have made the right decision for the club.

While some are questioning the timing, I actually think it's the perfect time. We have time now to change things and correct the glaring tactical deficiencies, to consolidate a playoff spot or even push for automatic if we can get an immediate momentum change from a new coaching setup. A few draws and losses for the teams above could open the door. With Moore in charge it wouldn't have mattered because we wouldn't have a prayer of defending well enough to win 7 or 8 on the spin. With the quality in our squad, we are capable if setup right.

I'll always have the utmost respect for Darren Moore has a human being and also as a football player, but he was simply not ready for the job on a full time basis. He needs more experience and a lot more tactical nous to be competing at this level. He deserved his chance, but ultimately he has failed. Now it's time for somebody else to get an opportunity to get the BEST SQUAD IN THE LEAGUE performing to their ability levels.
Best squad in the league you say? Then you say they can't pass the ball and play like Sunday league players!? Make your mind up. The reason they can't play out from the back is because they ain't good enough to do it!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: telford baggie on March 10, 2019, 03:09:20 PM
Best squad in the league you say? Then you say they can't pass the ball and play like Sunday league players!? Make your mind up. The reason they can't play out from the back is because they ain't good enough to do it!!
yeah and we didnt have anyone in charge to see that, was obvious first game of season and they still carried on...his time was up the club hqve made the right move he was clueless
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on March 10, 2019, 03:09:54 PM
Best squad in the league you say? Then you say they can't pass the ball and play like Sunday league players!? Make your mind up. The reason they can't play out from the back is because they ain't good enough to do it!!

Isn't that part of the problem though?  You can't say Hegazi, Dawson, Gibbs and Holgate aren't amongst some of the best defenders in the league - genuinely, name a better back 4, yet our system makes them look like Sunday League players at times.

Clearly our squad is right up there and our league positions feels like it's in despite of the tactics not because of it.  How many games can you say that we've played well for 90 minutes for this season?  How about 45?  How about since January? 

It's ridiculous to use the fact they struggled in the Prem as a reason for them not being amongst the best in the Championship.  Likewise the fact that half the squad haven't played at this "level", no, they played at a higher level.  I know we all have a soft spot for Big Dave but looking at the squad, looking at how we play, can you honestly say, hand on heart, that we are performing as well as expected, or even above that?  I can't.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 10, 2019, 03:14:51 PM
Best squad in the league you say? Then you say they can't pass the ball and play like Sunday league players!? Make your mind up. The reason they can't play out from the back is because they ain't good enough to do it!!

Surely a half decent head coach would tell them to stop doing it then? Or maybe find a way of playing that they were more comfortable in? Or, and here's a big one, not give the go ahead to spend in excess of £10m of the summer budget on a goalkeeper and centre back that clearly would not be suited to playing it out from the back?

As much as some fans are angry at the decision, Moore was clueless when it came to actually setting up a football team. He made fundamental mistakes on a weekly basis, playing just those 2 in midfield yesterday was so stupid I can't comprehend the thinking behind it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 10, 2019, 03:15:53 PM
Isn't that part of the problem though?  You can't say Hegazi, Dawson, Gibbs and Holgate aren't amongst some of the best defenders in the league - genuinely, name a better back 4, yet our system makes them look like Sunday League players at times.

Clearly our squad is right up there and our league positions feels like it's in despite of the tactics not because of it.  How many games can you say that we've played well for 90 minutes for this season?  How about 45?  How about since January? 

It's ridiculous to use the fact they struggled in the Prem as a reason for them not being amongst the best in the Championship.  Likewise the fact that half the squad haven't played at this "level", no, they played at a higher level.  I know we all have a soft spot for Big Dave but looking at the squad, looking at how we play, can you honestly say, hand on heart, that we are performing as well as expected, or even above that?  I can't.
Where have i said cause they struggled in the premiership they ain't good enough in the championship? You think we have the best squad, fair enough me and a lot of others don't.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 10, 2019, 03:26:45 PM
Surely a half decent head coach would tell them to stop doing it then? Or maybe find a way of playing that they were more comfortable in? Or, and here's a big one, not give the go ahead to spend in excess of £10m of the summer budget on a goalkeeper and centre back that clearly would not be suited to playing it out from the back?

As much as some fans are angry at the decision, Moore was clueless when it came to actually setting up a football team. He made fundamental mistakes on a weekly basis, playing just those 2 in midfield yesterday was so stupid I can't comprehend the thinking behind it.

It’s amazing we are fourth really isn’t it.

I’ll be watching closely to see how you treat the next manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mo on March 10, 2019, 03:31:23 PM
Surely a half decent head coach would tell them to stop doing it then? Or maybe find a way of playing that they were more comfortable in? Or, and here's a big one, not give the go ahead to spend in excess of £10m of the summer budget on a goalkeeper and centre back that clearly would not be suited to playing it out from the back?

As much as some fans are angry at the decision, Moore was clueless when it came to actually setting up a football team. He made fundamental mistakes on a weekly basis, playing just those 2 in midfield yesterday was so stupid I can't comprehend the thinking behind it.

The gaps were too big between the lines too and that isn’t good coaching , we weren’t compact and didn’t play as a unit  .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 10, 2019, 03:34:28 PM
It’s amazing we are fourth really isn’t it.

I’ll be watching closely to see how you treat the next manager.

Yep, having a top 3-5 player in the league in every position really helps when you're not great at management. In the same way I'd fancy my chances of finishing 6th if I was Man City manager  :P

If the next manager is another dud then he'll get the same treatment from me, I don't support the manager I support the club. Sadly every appointment since Hodgson has been poor so I'm not overly confident.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on March 10, 2019, 03:37:55 PM
The gaps were too big between the lines too and that isn’t good coaching , we weren’t compact and didn’t play as a unit  .


You're not kidding. Every time one of our players got the ball second half he had to carry it forty yards with no-one anywhere near him.

A mess an absolute mess.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on March 10, 2019, 03:38:09 PM
The idea that early season success was purely down toGayle and Barnes, with no credit to Moore is for the birds

Credit the players in the success, vilify the gaffer in the first poor run of form..

That would be unfair but isn't my view. The players do need to take a lot of blame for their performances of late, I'm particularly critical of Livermore and Rodriguez. I've never called for DM to be sacked, it was harsh, I think he did a decent job all things considered BUT our better moments and results this season have relied upon the quality of individual players rather than his management and we have been out schooled recently by Pulis of all people, Biesla and Wilder. So I can understand the board's point of view.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on March 10, 2019, 03:39:58 PM
The gaps were too big between the lines too and that isn’t good coaching , we weren’t compact and didn’t play as a unit  .

I thought that was most noticeable yesterday, massive gap between the team with a overweight Livermore unable to cover the ground in the middle. The shape was all wrong.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: allenkevanastle on March 10, 2019, 03:51:08 PM
Sad, very sad. Like many, I wanted DM to succeed. But then again, I wanted him to be appointed as assistant to the man down the road near Perry Barr. Then he could have learned.
Unfortunately, I think his biggest mistake was to appoint Jones as his assistant. Here is a coach who had been a part of much the same thing at Everton - promoting keep-ball sideways tactics that frustrated  their fans and were equally unsuccessful.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 10, 2019, 03:51:47 PM
After the failure of it earlier in the season we managed to revert back to five at the back and trying to pass it round between defenders and goalkeeper yet again. I really do not understand this great outpouring of outrage over the decision, over 36 games this season the management team of Moore and Jones have proven themselves be be tactically clueless. Take all emotion out of it, they had to go, whether it was now or in the summer, at least doing it now gives us a hope of promotion still.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 10, 2019, 04:02:35 PM
Yep, having a top 3-5 player in the league in every position really helps when you're not great at management. In the same way I'd fancy my chances of finishing 6th if I was Man City manager  :P

If the next manager is another dud then he'll get the same treatment from me, I don't support the manager I support the club. Sadly every appointment since Hodgson has been poor so I'm not overly confident.

I’m not convinced any of our midfielders would be in the top 10 midfielders in the league to be honest.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 10, 2019, 04:40:00 PM
I’m not convinced any of our midfielders would be in the top 10 midfielders in the league to be honest.

I disagree. But I'd agree central midfield is our weakest area overall, so surely the sensible option is to pack the midfield with bodies so we don't get overrun and rotate well to make up for the weakness? Moore has overused Barry and Harper to the point they look burnt out, and yesterday went with just 2 in the middle and we lost the midfield battle to the worst team in the league.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kris_boing on March 10, 2019, 04:46:09 PM
Not surprised in some ways that this has happened. It was the wrong appointment and if Moore is honest with himself he'll admit he was out of his depth.

We need to make the right appointment now. It's critical we get this right.


Wouldn't surprise me if we get a quick appointment with whoever it is having been already sounded out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie82 on March 10, 2019, 05:19:17 PM
I hope we do get the appointment sorted out asap, no time to waste.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: alex1 on March 10, 2019, 05:55:12 PM
It just seems to me, we make a series of panic short-term appointments. It would be interesting to survey which League clubs had the greatest turnover of managers, but we must be near the top end. There are even several posters here who say it explicitly, lets make a short term appointment. Why would any decent coach be attracted to that for the right reasons?

We just go from one crisis to the next. Is that the owner's policy? So the next appointment will boil down to who's available in the next week, not who is the best man for the long term vision of the club. This is where a Director of  Football needs to come in, but of course, that only makes sense if he is the right man, with the right long term vision. I don't think there are enough 'football people' above training staff level at the club.  The ideal would be someone like Bomber Brown, but with experience of business.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on March 10, 2019, 06:11:47 PM
Have any of the players put anything on social media about Darren’s dismissal?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Joust on March 10, 2019, 06:31:09 PM
It took me by surprise when I saw the news yesterday but actually upon reflection it was probably the right decision. Our squad should be top two in the league and most definitely winning more at home than we have since Boxing Day. Slav for me and auto could be back on with a good run ...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on March 10, 2019, 06:40:17 PM
Best squad in the league you say? Then you say they can't pass the ball and play like Sunday league players!? Make your mind up. The reason they can't play out from the back is because they ain't good enough to do it!!

Yes, undoubtedly the best squad in the league.

When did I say they can't pass the ball and play like Sunday league players? Are you disputing the fact that our defenders are not suited to playing in a back 3 and tip-tapping the ball around? THE TACTICS ARE SUNDAY LEAGUE - NOT THE PLAYERS.

Hegazi, Dawson Gibbs and Holgate are quality players and if setup up properly, would have many more clean sheets. Anybody who has watched us this season should now that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wbarenno on March 10, 2019, 06:41:59 PM
Makes me laugh how the Moore haters credited Graeme jones when it was going well, that Moore hardly had any input , then when it falls apart it’s all Moore’s fault. Can’t have it both ways.

For me there both to blame
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on March 10, 2019, 06:43:47 PM
Why do you feel its the best squad in the league?

Between march 2017 and april 2018 this squad had one of the worst records in the country, we lost games reguarly, two managers (including one who had managed a 1000 odd games) couldnt get them to improve, in fact they showed signs of getting worse.

We finished bottom last season and Had it not been for a mini revival at the end of last season when pressure was off we would of gone down as one of the worst premier league teams ever.

Out our current squad - johnstone, bartley, gayle, hrk, murphy, hoolahan and johansen have played regularly at this level in recent years, so thats 7 players out a squad of 20 plus players.

Jrod, Brunt, mears and mozza played at this level around 8-10 years ago, a lot has changed since then. Phillips and hrk did a few seasons ago, dawson and burke have played about 10 games at this level years ago.

Holgate, gibbs, tosin, gibbs, townsend, barnes, barry, livermore, field, harper, hegazi, montero, leko, edwards have never played at this level.

So over half out squad has never played at this level and we have a few who did nearly 10 years ago, a large chunk of those players had also played reguarly in a team that lost a lot of games between march 2017 and 2018 whilst playing anti football, and also are very one paced.

So where is the evidence and why are they the best squad in a league where other teams are younger, hungrier and have been together, developed and built over a couple of years?

Maybe the fact that when the team has been setup correctly, we have smashed in a lot of goals against the auto promotion challengers and annihilated the "Mighty" Leeds. The way we smashed Leeds, QPR, Sheff Utd, Norwich is all the evidence you need to see that this squad is head and shoulders above the rest when MANAGED PROPERLY.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on March 10, 2019, 06:54:26 PM
The more I read it does seem Jones was a very bad decision and maybe Darren's biggest mistake. We didn't do too badly with Moore minus Jones last season? Matt Wilson's latest piece is illuminating and reflects what many of us feel I think certainly me.......
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 10, 2019, 06:54:47 PM
Yes, undoubtedly the best squad in the league.

When did I say they can't pass the ball and play like Sunday league players? Are you disputing the fact that our defenders are not suited to playing in a back 3 and tip tapping? THE TACTICS ARE SUNDAY LEAGUE NOT THE PLAYERS.

Hegazi, Dawson Gibbs and Holgate are quality players and if setup up properly, would have many more clean sheets. Anybody who has watched us this season should now that.
I do watch regularly every game actually and have for years so don't come with that rubbish cause my view is different to yours  and no we definitely have not got the best squad far from it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on March 10, 2019, 06:58:29 PM
No post from Jacko in 24 hours. I think a storm is approaching.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Black Pearl on March 10, 2019, 07:00:20 PM
I think its very sad that Moore has been sacked, he was a symbol of hope, unity and one of our own, but whilst its sad, it's also the right decision.

At the end of last season, he appeared to motivate a revival, that may be partly true, but it was more a case of player power returning to their comfort zone and striving to keep their Premiership pay packets and as a result of this mini revival, big Dave got the job, so he got the job on a false premise when you look at it honestly.

Now to this season, he was well backed and tried to change the playing style with three at the back playing out from the back, that was a disaster and much criticised by many on here, eventually he returned to a back four, but still playing out from the back, some improvement, but still awkward with many errors, because the players are not up to it, we have a backline who are normally risk averse and a midfield horribly neglected since Pulis dictated that they were largely irrelevant as they watched the ball launched over their heads, then returned to a shield of four in front of the defence.

Darren was backed with several signings and loan signings which left him with a strong first 11, especially once the useless Kyle Bartley was removed [at £6million, probably the worst signing in the history of the club].

Unlike many on here, I don't get too high following wins or too low following losses, but what was becoming increasingly obvious was that Darren was struggling, his tactics were at best predictable and easily countered, his ability to change a game almost non existent, we luckily got a draw yesterday against a poor Ipswich side, only two saves from Johnstone save an appalling defeat.

Darren has been found out, he simply was not up to the job, its sad, but the club made the correct decision, it would only have got worse from here as the fans, who in the main have been patient and supportive, turned to venomous.

Good luck in the future Dave, you are a creditable and sincere Albion man, your reputation as a Baggie will remain, but time ran out this season and it was the best for you and the club.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on March 10, 2019, 07:12:44 PM
 I too tink Jones could have been a factor. But Darren Moore should have told him who was in charge. Nice bloke Darren Moore but not a Megson.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on March 10, 2019, 07:23:03 PM
If DM has been sacked without a replacement lined up that is shocking mismanagement from our board of disasters.

Imo they must have someone like jobless allardyce lined up with a short term contract of big bonus on promotion or you can walk away to another job elsewhere.

Good look to DM in whatever he chooses to do next. He didn't deserve the personal abuse he got and imo he had plenty of credit in the bank to not be subjected to that after bring a cornerstone of a side that took us at of the wilderness after 16 years.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on March 10, 2019, 07:26:32 PM
I do watch regularly every game actually and have for years so don't come with that rubbish cause my view is different to yours  and no we definitely have not got the best squad far from it.

You're the only one spouting rubbish as you took the contents of my post way out of context... and YES we do have the best squad in the league. Hopefully we get to see it if we bring in somebody competent. The only reason we are 4th is because of our quality. We've managed this despite Moore and Jones, not because of.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 10, 2019, 07:29:32 PM
No post from Jacko in 24 hours. I think a storm is approaching.

Probably banned...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on March 10, 2019, 07:32:44 PM
Probably banned...

Nope
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 10, 2019, 07:34:33 PM
You're the only one spouting rubbish as you took the contents of my post way out of context... and YES we do have the best squad in the league. Hopefully we get to see it if we bring in somebody competent. The only reason we are 4th is because of our quality. We've managed this despite Moore and Jones, not because of.
Mate you thought Murphy was man of the match yesterday!! So on that note I ain't getting into any further discussion about Moore or the squad, you got your view I got mine.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on March 10, 2019, 07:43:40 PM
Mate you thought Murphy was man of the match yesterday!! So on that note I ain't getting into any further discussion about Moore or the squad, you got your view I got mine.

Well perhaps forums are not for you then mate, because that is the whole point of them! Murphy was our best player. Who did you have as MOM? Bartley?  ::)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: cads_ap_albion on March 10, 2019, 07:45:55 PM
Well perhaps forums are not for you then mate, because that is the whole point of them! Murphy was our best player. Who did you have as MOM? Bartley?  ::)

Just to muddy the waters, it was clearly Townsend. 🤪
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on March 10, 2019, 07:48:33 PM
Just to muddy the waters, it was clearly Townsend. 🤪

 :D

Now he was really bad. He is one player that is definitely not Premier league quality, that is for sure.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 10, 2019, 07:50:36 PM
Well perhaps forums are not for you then mate, because that is the whole point of them! Murphy was our best player. Who did you have as MOM? Bartley?  ::)
Even he was better than Murphy. Forums are for discussion and different points of view! You don't discuss you state as fact what you think.like Murphy was our best player. Your opinion mate not mine.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 10, 2019, 07:51:46 PM
:D

Now he was really bad. He is one player that is definitely not Premier league quality, that is for sure.
Here You go again your opinion not a fact!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on March 10, 2019, 07:54:17 PM
Here You go again your opinion not a fact!

Maybe not a fact on Planet 59 but on Planet Earth, it very much is a fact.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 10, 2019, 07:54:53 PM
I think we can all surely agree that Townsend is not Premier League quality...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on March 10, 2019, 07:55:00 PM
Can we cut the petty squabbles out please gents !!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on March 10, 2019, 07:55:49 PM
I think we can all surely agree that Townsend is not Premier League quality...

Apparently not!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on March 10, 2019, 08:08:58 PM
 :'(
I think we can all surely agree that Townsend is not Premier League quality...

I think someone could put an argument forward that he’s not Championship quality
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on March 10, 2019, 08:19:36 PM
The more I read it does seem Jones was a very bad decision and maybe Darren's biggest mistake. We didn't do too badly with Moore minus Jones last season? Matt Wilson's latest piece is illuminating and reflects what many of us feel I think certainly me.......
I think last season was a holding job by Moore, the football was solid but not enterprising. I'm sure that's not what he wanted the football to stay like this season - he wanted to get promotion playing attacking exciting football.
He may well have thought he needed a coach more used to working with teams playing attacking football hence the appointment of Jones.
I suspect that Moore was instrumental in the decision to give Morrison his 2 year contract despite his appalling injury record over the previous 3 years. The result of this has been Morrison missing the majority of games through injury thereby limiting our attacking midfield options. Bringing Hoolahan in was probably worth a punt in the circumstances but it doesn't hide the strong need for a younger fitter attacking midfielder to join the ranks.
I feel sorry for Moore that it's ended like this, it is premature, as Matt Wilson said 2 weeks ago we were closing in on the top two. He's a rarity in being a manager seemingly without any ego and really hope he finds a job he enjoys going forward whether that's another shot at management or going back to the academy side of things.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on March 10, 2019, 08:20:25 PM
I think its very sad that Moore has been sacked, he was a symbol of hope, unity and one of our own, but whilst its sad, it's also the right decision.

At the end of last season, he appeared to motivate a revival, that may be partly true, but it was more a case of player power returning to their comfort zone and striving to keep their Premiership pay packets and as a result of this mini revival, big Dave got the job, so he got the job on a false premise when you look at it honestly.

Now to this season, he was well backed and tried to change the playing style with three at the back playing out from the back, that was a disaster and much criticised by many on here, eventually he returned to a back four, but still playing out from the back, some improvement, but still awkward with many errors, because the players are not up to it, we have a backline who are normally risk averse and a midfield horribly neglected since Pulis dictated that they were largely irrelevant as they watched the ball launched over their heads, then returned to a shield of four in front of the defence.

Darren was backed with several signings and loan signings which left him with a strong first 11, especially once the useless Kyle Bartley was removed [at £6million, probably the worst signing in the history of the club].

Unlike many on here, I don't get too high following wins or too low following losses, but what was becoming increasingly obvious was that Darren was struggling, his tactics were at best predictable and easily countered, his ability to change a game almost non existent, we luckily got a draw yesterday against a poor Ipswich side, only two saves from Johnstone save an appalling defeat.

Darren has been found out, he simply was not up to the job, its sad, but the club made the correct decision, it would only have got worse from here as the fans, who in the main have been patient and supportive, turned to venomous.

Good luck in the future Dave, you are a creditable and sincere Albion man, your reputation as a Baggie will remain, but time ran out this season and it was the best for you and the club.

Good post.  Balanced and thought provoking.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: caravanc58 on March 10, 2019, 08:51:51 PM
no sitting on the fence with an undecided option, just a straightforward answer to gauge if you support or oppose the decision.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on March 10, 2019, 08:57:43 PM
Completely agree and am happy the club have acted swiftly while there is still time for a final push for the top two. Moore and Jones have underperformed in my opinion and have failed to address our glaring problems.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 10, 2019, 09:01:19 PM
Should have got until the end of the season at least.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on March 10, 2019, 10:15:59 PM
Should have got until the end of the season at least.
If you are on your way to Blackpool with the family in the car, the car starts juddering..

Do you make a decision and pull in to the garage, or just get on the motorway because you may has well give it till the end of the journey?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wappingbaggie on March 10, 2019, 10:21:23 PM
I do understand the decision but it still came as a surprise

I would not have gone that way. I would have given him the whole season

It was a pretty brave decision with a high chance of looking silly in retrospect Unless they have a really inspired choice already lined up I think they risk damaging not helping the promotion push

I think we outperformed this season - usually the team that finishes last in prem really struggles in the championship - look at stroke and swansea they are the correct benchmarks for us - if you had offered me 5th with 10 to play at the start I'd have taken it immediately.

It is a bit galling to be so consistently poor at home, and also to have a manager who was a defender presiding over a shockingly awful defence

What has undone our push for automatic promotion is Harvey Barnes being recalled, nothing to do with DM.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wappingbaggie on March 10, 2019, 10:43:09 PM



... especially once the useless Kyle Bartley was removed [at £6million, probably the worst signing in the history of the club].



Nope - Oliver Burke
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Black Pearl on March 10, 2019, 10:54:08 PM
Nope - Oliver Burke

Maybe, but that is yet to be proven, Burke may come good, but Bartley is a truly shocking player, he lacks ability on the ball, does not read the game and ball watches continuously.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 10, 2019, 11:41:26 PM
If you are on your way to Blackpool with the family in the car, the car starts juddering..

Do you make a decision and pull in to the garage, or just get on the motorway because you may has well give it till the end of the journey?
What a stupid reply why would I want to go to Blackpool!?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on March 10, 2019, 11:53:29 PM
If you are on your way to Blackpool with the family in the car, the car starts juddering..

Do you make a decision and pull in to the garage, or just get on the motorway because you may has well give it till the end of the journey?

I think this is a really good way of looking at the situation. The warning signs have been there from very early on and eventually you have to bite the bullet and make a decision. With 30 points still to play for, there's still time. It's unlikely all three of the teams above us will drop 9 points over the next few matches, but a change could bring a fresh vibe to the club and I'd rather us go into the play offs (should we also not falter any further) on a good run, than just about crawl over the line with players not knowing what formation to play.

If you look back through the posts, you'll see that over the past few weeks there has been a steady increase in those calling for DM to be sacked. A few months back ones were scolded for even mentioning it, then the call grew and grew. And after Saturday's debacle there was the biggest calling yet. Now it's finally happened so many seem to be bewildered. I have mates who have said "you're 4th, what's the problem?" It's crazy having to keep explaining to people that we're in a false position and could very easily drop to 7th by the end of the month if we don't get a grip.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hillsm on March 11, 2019, 12:33:53 AM
Why do you feel its the best squad in the league?

Between march 2017 and april 2018 this squad had one of the worst records in the country, we lost games reguarly, two managers (including one who had managed a 1000 odd games) couldnt get them to improve, in fact they showed signs of getting worse.

We finished bottom last season and Had it not been for a mini revival at the end of last season when pressure was off we would of gone down as one of the worst premier league teams ever.

Out our current squad - johnstone, bartley, gayle, hrk, murphy, hoolahan and johansen have played regularly at this level in recent years, so thats 7 players out a squad of 20 plus players.

Jrod, Brunt, mears and mozza played at this level around 8-10 years ago, a lot has changed since then. Phillips and hrk did a few seasons ago, dawson and burke have played about 10 games at this level years ago.

Holgate, gibbs, tosin, gibbs, townsend, barnes, barry, livermore, field, harper, hegazi, montero, leko, edwards have never played at this level.

So over half out squad has never played at this level and we have a few who did nearly 10 years ago, a large chunk of those players had also played reguarly in a team that lost a lot of games between march 2017 and 2018 whilst playing anti football, and also are very one paced.

So where is the evidence and why are they the best squad in a league where other teams are younger, hungrier and have been together, developed and built over a couple of years?


Barnes played for Barnsley last season.
Leko played for Bristol City last season.
Livermore has played for Derby, Ipswich, Leeds and Hull at this level.
Gibbs played for Norwich in 2008 at this level.


Glad Moore has gone, completely out of his depth. Any manager with a bit about them would have this squad in the top two.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on March 11, 2019, 01:02:54 AM
This is my final contribution to this debate.

Maybe Albion overpromoted him. I absolutely know for a fact that many of his current detractors were clamouring for the appointment in the summer and dismissed any scepticism out of hand pointing to the many fine qualities Darren Moore has. I am deeply saddened that it has come to this and feel we have lost a good coach and a good man. There are precious few of those in football and we can't afford to easily cast them aside.

Ultimately I was desperate for Darren Moore to work. We need some stability and we can't keep chopping and changing Head Coaches as soon as we hit the first bump in the road but whatever bring on the next one, who this time next year will be replaced.

One final suggestion to the mods leave the "Next Manager" thread open because there is always someone who would be doing so much better with this or any other group of players than whoever happens to be in the hotseat on any given day. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on March 11, 2019, 01:29:31 AM
The fact is managers' reputations are built on the performance of the players performances on the pitch.

When we had HB we could unlock the defences of the teams who came to our ground to defend and that was proven by the number of goals scored in the second half and late on when opposition defences were tired.

When he went the home wins went too and became draws and losses and add to that the injuries to mp and we lost our invention and guile.

It was less obvious away because we were playing and winning by scoring on the break like seen at the vile recently. Err

We'll never know how we would have done if HB had stayed but he wasn't ours and the possibility was always there that he would go back like he did at Barnsley last season.

His departure there last season arguably cost them relegation and it has probably cost us automatic unless we have have megsonesque finish to the season.

As ogs has shown at man utd a half decent manager can do well with good players and nothing with bad ones like when he was at Cardiff.

Let's hope the next one can get a tune out of Murphy and Montero and we go up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on March 11, 2019, 08:26:21 AM
If you are on your way to Blackpool with the family in the car, the car starts juddering..

Do you make a decision and pull in to the garage, or just get on the motorway because you may has well give it till the end of the journey?

I'd pull into the garage and try and sort the problem which might involve some of the parts needing changing. I might be able to change the parts but not to the ones I want but once I get to Blackpool I might be able to get the parts I want and get rid of some of the other older parts that are showing some wear and tear and the parts that might not be as good as I thought they were.

 What I wouldn't do is pull into the garage and get in a new car just because I think it might perform better than the car that just needs a little work on it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on March 11, 2019, 08:30:58 AM
OK so we've blown away another manager that didn't live up to expectations.
Question I'd ask is when do the players start to take some responsibility?
The likes of Livermore, Barry, Dawson have been in residency for the tenure of 3 managers now and they will still be in the squad for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 11, 2019, 10:36:44 AM
Final say on this as ultimately Moore has gone.

I was gutted by the sacking of Darren Moore but what worries me more is what we may become / are becoming as a club.

We have sacked three managers in 18 months, one who was as experienced as you can get, one who had a decent cv and one who was a novice, over the years we have probably all looked at certain other clubs working their way through managers like hot dinners and thought what a joke and thats what we risk becoming.

I imagine Darren Moores remit at the start of the season was promotion, as it stands we still have a good chance of doing that. Of course automatic looks a long shot but even if you go up in the playoffs, its still promotion. The playoffs is a lottery, you only have to have a bad 45 minutes and your season is over, a lot better managers than Darren Moore have had that happen to them so anybody you bring in now doesnt guarentee or really even enhance us getting too / winning the playoffs.

We havent been out the top 6 most of the season and even now after a disappointing february we are still 7 points clear of 7th place with arguably the hardest games of the season out the way. Through February (throwing the Leeds game in there) we played 7, won 3, drew 1 and lost 3, with two of those three defeats against the teams above us, there is nothing to suggest we wouldnt make the playoffs and if you do it becomes a lottery whoever is in charge.

There have been loads of good points for people thinking its the right decision to sack him and good points for those who didnt but as a club, where are we going? Whats the plan?

Surely when you appoint a rookie manager you know there is going to be rough periods, this season hasnt been perfect and again all the pros and cons have been done to death, but the last two weeks has been the first time all season where you could say it was bad results wise and we have panicked in my book.

I dont believe this squad is the best in the league other than on past reputations, other people do and thats great but i think most would agree we have certainly have one of the best six squads in the divison so why not give him til the end of the season and review it then? I would imagine the minimum requirement would of been playoffs (and like i say there is no evidence yet to suggest we wont, 4th place with 7 point cushion isnt panic stations) but had we not done that then you could understand a bit more them saying it hasnt worked.

Regarding the squad, i think if you had put this squad in this league 2 or 3 seasons ago i think they would of done a lot better but i do a number have peaked and although still decent players, they are on the downward curve now. We have some good players but aside from Barnes one thing we havent had compared to our other promotion seasons is standout players.

Under Mowbray when we made the play offs we had some real standout players for this level - Curtis Davies, Jason Koumas, Kevin Phillips, Zoltan Gera, Robert Koren, Jonathan Greening we had a loose cannon in Diomansy Kamara.

That side didnt go up, i think around February time we were right in the mix for top 2 and we didnt do it and ended up playoffs. That squad was starting to peak and i dont think we have many players in our current squad who were upto the above players level, maybe a few years the current squad could of but not now.

With that side and that Mowbray had 7 months to manage them that season you could argue they should of gone up, they didnt but the board remained patient because they knew after the Robson era change takes time. They stuck with Mowbray and the next season produced one the the best seasons certainly in my time going, he learnt a lot from that first season, we had scored loads but let in loads, we lost a number of players that summer but added younger and hungrier players and we ended up winning the league, this season has been very similar to Mowbrays first season, the difference this time is we had only one match winner in Barnes, Mowbrays first season we had 3 or 4.

Even the RDM era, we had some real quality for that level - Olsson, Jerome Thomas, Bednar but we also had a crop of young hungry players like Dorrans, Mulumbu, Simon Cox, Mozza, Brunt, Ishmael Miller all players who were getting better and nowhere near their peak yet, very much like Norwich and Leeds are now, where our squad nowadays we dont have those players, we have more been there and done that and at championship level you do need that hunger, the energy, the legs and we just dont have that.

I was told in the summer Darren Moore had wanted to give this squad a chance, maybe he should of looked to change the squad but i would imagine he was told its promotion or bust so he played it safe, that is possibly his biggest downfall.

I think ultimately change takes time but i worry for us as a club now that nobody is going to get that time, not comparing but Guardiola under Man City won nothing first season and there were all the questions is he right for english football, etc yet they stuck with him. Klopp at Liverpool, they were doing laps of honour for drawing 2-2 with Albion and there were doubts over him, yet they stuck with him and look at them now, thats the elite top level where their is more pressure than at Albion.

Even this level, Norwich last season were very concerned with Farke, they were newly relegated and halfway down the league, yet they remained patient and look at them now, they have let him build and develop a team with identity and the club is buzzing.

I think we are panicking with our decisions and our vision (if there is any) just say Jokanovic gets the job and we dont go up, next season we start well, we are top 3 or 4 by the end of October. In November we have a bad month and by December we have dropped to 6th or out the playoffs, do we sack him? Because that seems to be the clubs logic and thats what worries me more than anything.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Xpresso on March 11, 2019, 10:41:43 AM
So now we learn that Darren's supposed big mate Jones was about to stab him in the back at the end of the season. I feel for Darren, a decent and honourable man treated dishonourably and shamefully by all those around him, including the vultures on the terraces and social media. The club has lost a great servant.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: geoff on March 11, 2019, 10:51:05 AM
The club did the right thing Dave seemed void of idea's that would stop the rot.

The new manager now has time to not only push on but to assess his squad.
Thanks Dave,
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on March 11, 2019, 10:54:49 AM
Final say on this as ultimately Moore has gone.

I was gutted by the sacking of Darren Moore but what worries me more is what we may become / are becoming as a club.

We have sacked three managers in 18 months, one who was as experienced as you can get, one who had a decent cv and one who was a novice, over the years we have probably all looked at certain other clubs working their way through managers like hot dinners and thought what a joke and thats what we risk becoming.

I imagine Darren Moores remit at the start of the season was promotion, as it stands we still have a good chance of doing that. Of course automatic looks a long shot but even if you go up in the playoffs, its still promotion. The playoffs is a lottery, you only have to have a bad 45 minutes and your season is over, a lot better managers than Darren Moore have had that happen to them so anybody you bring in now doesnt guarentee or really even enhance us getting too / winning the playoffs.

We havent been out the top 6 most of the season and even now after a disappointing february we are still 7 points clear of 7th place with arguably the hardest games of the season out the way. Through February (throwing the Leeds game in there) we played 7, won 3, drew 1 and lost 3, with those three defeats against the teams above us, there is nothing to suggest we wouldnt make the playoffs and if you do it becomes a lottery whoever is in charge.

There have been loads of good points for people thinking its the right decision to sack him and good points for those who didnt but as a club, where are we going? Whats the plan?

Surely when you appoint a rookie manager you know there is going to be rough periods, this season hasnt been perfect and again all the pros and cons have been done to death, but the last two weeks has been the first time all season where you could say it was bad results wise and we have panicked in my book.

I dont believe this squad is the best in the league other than on past reputations, other people do and thats great but i think most would agree we have certainly have one of the best six squads in the divison so why not give him til the end of the season and review it then? I would imagine the minimum requirement would of been playoffs (and like i say there is no evidence yet to suggest we wont, 4th place with 7 point cushion isnt panic stations) but had we not done that then you could understand a bit more them saying it hasnt worked.

Regarding the squad, i think if you had put this squad in this league 2 or 3 seasons ago i think they would of done a lot better but i do a number have peaked and although still decent players, they are on the downward curve now. We have some good players but aside from Barnes one thing we havent had compared to our other promotion seasons is standout players.

Under Mowbray when we made the play offs we had some real standout players for this level - Curtis Davies, Jason Koumas, Kevin Phillips, Zoltan Gera, Robert Koren, Jonathan Greening we had a match winner in Diomansy Kamara.

That side didnt go up, i think around February time we were right in the mix for top 2 and we didnt do it and ended up playoffs. That squad was starting to peak and i dont think we have many players in our current squad who were upto the above players level, maybe a few years the current squad could of but not now.

With that side and that Mowbray had 7 months to manage them that season you could argue they should of gone up, they didnt but the board remained patient because they knew after the Robson era change takes time. They stuck with Mowbray and the next season produced one the the best seasons certainly in my time going, he learnt a lot from that first season, we had scored loads but let in loads, we lost a number of players that summer but added younger and hungrier players and we ended up winning the league, this season has been very similar to Mowbrays first season, the difference this time is we had only one match winner in Barnes, Mowbrays first season we had 3 or 4.

Even the RDM era, we had some real quality for that level - Olsson, Jerome Thomas, Bednar but we also had a crop of young hungry players like Dorrans, Mulumbu, Simon Cox, Mozza, Brunt, Ishmael Miller all players who were getting better and nowhere near their peak yet, very much like Norwich and Leeds are now, where our squad nowadays we dont have those players, we have more been there and done that and at championship level you do need that hunger, the energy, the legs and we just dont have that.

I was told in the summer Darren Moore had wanted to give this squad a chance, maybe he should of looked to change the squad but i would imagine he was told its promotion or bust so he played it safe, that is possibly his biggest downfall.

I think ultimately change takes time but i worry for us as a club now that nobody is going to get that time, not comparing but Guardiola under Man City won nothing first season and there were all the questions is he right for english football, etc yet they stuck with him. Klopp at Liverpool, they were doing laps of honour for drawing 2-2 with Albion and there were doubts over him, yet they stuck with him and look at them now, thats the elite top level where their is more pressure than at Albion.

Even this level, Norwich last season were very concerned with Farke, they were newly relegated and halfway down the league, yet they remained patient and look at them now, they have let him build and develop a team with identity and the club is buzzing.

I think we are panicking with our decisions and our vision (if there is any) just say Jokanovic gets the job and we dont go up, next season we start well, we are top 3 or 4 by the end of October. In November we have a bad month and by December we have dropped to 6th or out the playoffs, do we sack him? Because that seems to be the clubs logic and thats what worries me more than anything.

Good post mate and spot on with a lot about our current squad.

I get your comparison with building a team and Guardiola, but lets not forget he has also been heavily backed in the transfer market, as has Klopp (granted he had to sell Coutinho but VVD and Allison come close to £150million).

This summer for the club is huge either way. We go up and we would need to rebuild with a squad that isn't capable of staying up, would need a huge reinvestment, would we get that from our owner, who knows. He may look to cut his losses and sell the club.

If we don't go up, we lose all the loanees, some of the more 'senior' players will either be looking to leave or out of contract.

Darren did a good enough job in his first full season, many of us would have taken 4th spot at this stage of the season if you offered it us at the start. Our form hasn't been great admittedly, and with all the rumours coming out now that the players lost faith in the way we wanted to play, Jones falling out with Dowling and the board, Jones jumping ship end of the season will 100% of had an impact on the reaction he got from the first team.

Our performances the last few weeks/months have been miles apart from how we looked at the start of the season, granted Barnes had a huge influence in those results, but there were times when we could/should have changed things but persisted too long, was that DM or Jones who had the influence on that, I guess we will never know.

I would say that Jones to some extent has let down his 'mate' Darren. I would imagine had DM chosen for example Shakespeare as his assistant, he may still be in a job. One thing is for sure though, our club has lost a brilliant man in DM, someone who everyone liked and respected, its a shame he isn't still involved with us as he genuinely had the club at heart. I wish him all the success and hope he is given another crack at management and learns from this experience.

For now though, Jenkins, Lai and Dowling have to get this appointment spot on.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on March 11, 2019, 10:55:44 AM
We'll never know for sure the board's thinking but I doubt it was a decision purely based on results. We know other head coaches have been through far worse periods and remained in the job. Maybe it was more that Jones had seriously fallen out with people and Moore didn't manage this well, then Jones decided to leave in the summer anyway,  on top of this, the tactics clearly didn't suit our current players (again Jone's influence?). Maybe the board looked at it and thought Darren wasn't managing the situation well enough and not managing Jones well enough. Maybe this was translating to results on the pitch because the players had picked up this - form had clearly dipped. As I say, we'll never know but I just think (purely my opinion based on no facts) maybe Darren was not ruthless enough at times and didn't have the instinct to spot Jones being a problem? Ultimately , a lack of ruthlessness in the very cut throat world of football doesn't get you too far as it's a brutal place to work isn't it? For better or worse, I'd say players and others in football are used to leaders being leaders (in the old fashioned big ego sense of things).

Darren just seemed too nice.............and didn't get shot of Jones when he should've done maybe?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on March 11, 2019, 10:57:57 AM
So now we learn that Darren's supposed big mate Jones was about to stab him in the back at the end of the season. I feel for Darren, a decent and honourable man treated dishonourably and shamefully by all those around him, including the vultures on the terraces and social media. The club has lost a great servant.

Do you know for certain that he hadn't already discussed this with Moore, and that Moore wasn't fully aware of the situation?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 11, 2019, 11:00:08 AM
Apologies i wasnt comparing Guardiola or Klopp with Big Dave, just giving the example that at a higher level with a lot more pressure, clubs have shown more patience than we have!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 11, 2019, 11:08:43 AM
Final final say! (Possibly!)

There were reports over the weekend that our board are quite happy to go up, get the money, know there is a good chance of relegation but use the £100m parachute money next time for rebuilding, if thats the case why didnt they do it this time?!

I can see the logic of planning worst case scenario but as investors i just dont think Mr Lai and his people will have that motive, their first priority at this stage is recover the money they have already shelled out, that way they are break even if nothing else.

They will then look to try and make profit where possible, they are different to Peace as he didnt put much money in, he grew the club and made money that way, these people have already staked a lot of money upfront.

So sadly when i say whats our club going to become i imagine it will be a yoyo club again at the very best with short term fixes for managers and players, any manager will not be thinking how can they develop a team, etc because evidence shows that they dont get time to do it, they will look for instant success and with that it becomes instant failure too when things go wrong.

I am normally a glass half full person but i fear the worst for opportunities for our youngsters unless we stay down a season or two and have a firesale, everything from now on will be quick fix for the club but for me as a fan, i dont anticipate much to look forward too.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: DurhamBaggie on March 11, 2019, 11:15:24 AM
I am personally pleased that he has gone. Nice guy but...

*You play the best striker in the league out wide
*You ask centre halves that cannot pass the ball to continuously pass the ball.
*You ask a goalkeeper that cannot pass the ball to continuously pass the ball.
*Play Tosin out of position (continuously).
*Purchase Connor Townsend.
*Started the season with a midfield 2 of Brunt and Livermore
*Persevered with a back 3 for far far far too long.
*Have been outplayed on numerous occasions (Leeds away / Blues away / Forest away / Sheff U home / Ipswich home / Derby home / Sheff Wed away / Blackburn away + many more
*Purchase Kyle Bartley.
*Design a formation to beat Leeds at home (great) - but then stick to it even though it has failed in almost every game since.
*Fail to make substitutions that positively impact the game (usually waiting until the opposition act.
*Fail to see that the opposition have worked us out. All you have to do against Albion is let them have the ball at the back and press Barry/Livermore once the ball is passed into midfield (usually at knee height).

For these reasons - he should have been fired. We do have a good squad of players and this is a poor league (in terms of quality).

Good luck Darren but in my opinion you were totally out of your depth.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on March 11, 2019, 11:45:08 AM
I am personally pleased that he has gone. Nice guy but...

*You play the best striker in the league out wide
*You ask centre halves that cannot pass the ball to continuously pass the ball.
*You ask a goalkeeper that cannot pass the ball to continuously pass the ball.
*Play Tosin out of position (continuously).
*Purchase Connor Townsend.
*Started the season with a midfield 2 of Brunt and Livermore
*Persevered with a back 3 for far far far too long.
*Have been outplayed on numerous occasions (Leeds away / Blues away / Forest away / Sheff U home / Ipswich home / Derby home / Sheff Wed away / Blackburn away + many more
*Purchase Kyle Bartley.
*Design a formation to beat Leeds at home (great) - but then stick to it even though it has failed in almost every game since.
*Fail to make substitutions that positively impact the game (usually waiting until the opposition act.
*Fail to see that the opposition have worked us out. All you have to do against Albion is let them have the ball at the back and press Barry/Livermore once the ball is passed into midfield (usually at knee height).

For these reasons - he should have been fired. We do have a good squad of players and this is a poor league (in terms of quality).

Good luck Darren but in my opinion you were totally out of your depth.

Completely agree with that. I can only think that supporters against the sacking are being swayed by a great deal of sentiment for a club favourite. Too many amateur-hour tactical mistakes and no sign of rectifying things makes it a great and very brave decision by the club in my opinion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on March 11, 2019, 11:54:19 AM
Nope - Oliver Burke

Nope - Zhiang Thingumi
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 11, 2019, 01:07:21 PM
I am personally pleased that he has gone. Nice guy but...

*You play the best striker in the league out wide
*You ask centre halves that cannot pass the ball to continuously pass the ball.
*You ask a goalkeeper that cannot pass the ball to continuously pass the ball.
*Play Tosin out of position (continuously).
*Purchase Connor Townsend.
*Started the season with a midfield 2 of Brunt and Livermore
*Persevered with a back 3 for far far far too long.
*Have been outplayed on numerous occasions (Leeds away / Blues away / Forest away / Sheff U home / Ipswich home / Derby home / Sheff Wed away / Blackburn away + many more
*Purchase Kyle Bartley.
*Design a formation to beat Leeds at home (great) - but then stick to it even though it has failed in almost every game since.
*Fail to make substitutions that positively impact the game (usually waiting until the opposition act.
*Fail to see that the opposition have worked us out. All you have to do against Albion is let them have the ball at the back and press Barry/Livermore once the ball is passed into midfield (usually at knee height).

For these reasons - he should have been fired. We do have a good squad of players and this is a poor league (in terms of quality).

Good luck Darren but in my opinion you were totally out of your depth.

If only others on here could take note of this. exactly why DM was out of his depth.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on March 11, 2019, 01:15:00 PM
His name is Darren not Dave ffs

Mate, you are being petty. We get it, you're not happy Big Dave has been sacked but no need to take it out on everybody else. Geoff was certainly not being derogatory...Big Dave is an affectionate term for a player all WBA fans love to bits, not an insult or pi55take.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 11, 2019, 01:19:12 PM
Mate, you are being petty. We get it, you're not happy Big Dave has been sacked but no need to take it out on everybody else. Geoff was certainly not being derogatory...Big Dave is an affectionate term for a player all WBA fans love to bits, not an insult or pi55take.
Not being petty stating a fact. And I know it's affection but that's when we where all singing there's only one big Dave, on here we are not.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on March 11, 2019, 01:28:00 PM
Not being petty stating a fact. And I know it's affection but that's when we where all singing there's only one big Dave, on here we are not.

Says you. As a man and a player, there is and will always be only one Big Dave. We're all gutted that things haven't worked out for him, but our love for a former player cannot affect the running of our club or paper over the glaring problems we have had under his leadership as manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 11, 2019, 01:28:29 PM
All fair points Durham baggie, on that basis you would sack him, however also worth pointing out the positives as to why it was harsh

- Took over a laughing stock of a club with a group of players which had won 4 league games in the previous 44, yet managed to win 3 and drew 2 of the last 6 against some of the biggest teams in the country to stop us going down with a record as one of the worst premier league clubs in history
- Introduced a new passing style of football after fans had repeatedly complained about style for the 3 or 4 years previous-
- Attracted the leagues best player Harvey Barnes who turned down a better offer from Leeds to play for Darren Moore and his style of football
- Gayle, Holgate, Murphy all stated the reason they chose Albion was to play in Darren Moores team and they way he wanted to play
- Gareth Barry and Jake Livermore stated as of a few weeks ago that the players who stayed agreed to it as they believed in what Darren Moore was doing. That is likely to be true as nowadays if players want a move they usually force it  - Foster and McClean good examples (Dawson the exception)
- Promoted youngsters into the squad gradually and now play reguarly which fans have criticised the club for not doing for numerous years
- Ahead of the Leeds game i believe had the best away records in the country in the 10 games prior to it
- Second highest scorers in the league (again after fans had complained for years how boring the football was, scoring 68 goals isnt too bad)
- Over 50% win ratio as Albion manager
- His style of football ensured more sellouts at the Albion this season than probably the previous 10 combined, if it was just a results thing then we would of sold out a lot under Pulis too as we got results for him to too often against more glamour opponenets.
- Played away to two of biggest rivals in recent weeks (Villa and Stoke) and barely got out of first gear we were that far ahead
- Won three manager of the months out of a possible 8 available
- Left the club 7 points clear of the last play off place
- Done all of this whilst selling three of our best players in recent years - Foster (would of been best goalie in the league) Evans (a class above anything in this league and many the one above) and Rondon (who even under Benitez, not exactly an attacking coach, has shown they by playing a bit more attacking purpose rather than the Pulis way, what a good quality striker he is)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: phbaggies on March 11, 2019, 01:31:45 PM
I am personally pleased that he has gone. Nice guy but...

*You play the best striker in the league out wide
*You ask centre halves that cannot pass the ball to continuously pass the ball.
*You ask a goalkeeper that cannot pass the ball to continuously pass the ball.
*Play Tosin out of position (continuously).
*Purchase Connor Townsend.
*Started the season with a midfield 2 of Brunt and Livermore
*Persevered with a back 3 for far far far too long.
*Have been outplayed on numerous occasions (Leeds away / Blues away / Forest away / Sheff U home / Ipswich home / Derby home / Sheff Wed away / Blackburn away + many more
*Purchase Kyle Bartley.
*Design a formation to beat Leeds at home (great) - but then stick to it even though it has failed in almost every game since.
*Fail to make substitutions that positively impact the game (usually waiting until the opposition act.
*Fail to see that the opposition have worked us out. All you have to do against Albion is let them have the ball at the back and press Barry/Livermore once the ball is passed into midfield (usually at knee height).

For these reasons - he should have been fired. We do have a good squad of players and this is a poor league (in terms of quality).

Good luck Darren but in my opinion you were totally out of your depth.

And you could build a similar list as to all the good things he done too, not all as bad as you make out hence why we are comfortably in the play off positions, if his remit was to get us promoted then he was on target (albeit through the playoffs), for all the bad signings (and some were bad!) he had some gems - Gayle, Barnes, Holgate. For all the poor performances, there were some crackers too. Our club was rotten throughout and he fixed it to a degree, overall for his first full year in management he done very well with the resources made available to him, just my opinion of course......
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: walter baggie on March 11, 2019, 01:32:15 PM
Not being petty stating a fact. And I know it's affection but that's when we where all singing there's only one big Dave, on here we are not.

There's still only one Big Dave!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: phbaggies on March 11, 2019, 01:34:08 PM
All fair points Durham baggie, on that basis you would sack him, however also worth pointing out the positives as to why it was harsh

- Took over a laughing stock of a club with a group of players which had won 4 league games in the previous 44, yet managed to win 3 and drew 2 of the last 6 against some of the biggest teams in the country to stop us going down with a record as one of the worst premier league clubs in history
- Introduced a new passing style of football after fans had repeatedly complained about style for the 3 or 4 years previous-
- Attracted the leagues best player Harvey Barnes who turned down a better offer from Leeds to play for Darren Moore and his style of football
- Gayle, Holgate, Murphy all stated the reason they chose Albion was to play in Darren Moores team and they way he wanted to play
- Gareth Barry and Jake Livermore stated as of a few weeks ago that the players who stayed agreed to it as they believed in what Darren Moore was doing. That is likely to be true as nowadays if players want a move they usually force it  - Foster and McClean good examples (Dawson the exception)
- Promoted youngsters into the squad gradually and now play reguarly which fans have criticised the club for not doing for numerous years
- Ahead of the Leeds game i believe had the best away records in the country in the 10 games prior to it
- Second highest scorers in the league (again after fans had complained for years how boring the football was, scoring 68 goals isnt too bad)
- Over 50% win ratio as Albion manager
- His style of football ensured more sellouts at the Albion this season than probably the previous 10 combined, if it was just a results thing then we would of sold out a lot under Pulis too as we got results for him to too often against more glamour opponenets.
- Played away to two of biggest rivals in recent weeks (Villa and Stoke) and barely got out of first gear we were that far ahead
- Won three manager of the months out of a possible 8 available
- Left the club 7 points clear of the last play off place
- Done all of this whilst selling three of our best players in recent years - Foster (would of been best goalie in the league) Evans (a class above anything in this league and many the one above) and Rondon (who even under Benitez, not exactly an attacking coach, has shown they by playing a bit more attacking purpose rather than the Pulis way, what a good quality striker he is)

Agreed! (I tried to make the same point) any argument looks good when you only put one side to it!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Black Pearl on March 11, 2019, 01:45:15 PM
All fair points Durham baggie, on that basis you would sack him, however also worth pointing out the positives as to why it was harsh

- Took over a laughing stock of a club with a group of players which had won 4 league games in the previous 44, yet managed to win 3 and drew 2 of the last 6 against some of the biggest teams in the country to stop us going down with a record as one of the worst premier league clubs in history
- Introduced a new passing style of football after fans had repeatedly complained about style for the 3 or 4 years previous-
- Attracted the leagues best player Harvey Barnes who turned down a better offer from Leeds to play for Darren Moore and his style of football
- Gayle, Holgate, Murphy all stated the reason they chose Albion was to play in Darren Moores team and they way he wanted to play
- Gareth Barry and Jake Livermore stated as of a few weeks ago that the players who stayed agreed to it as they believed in what Darren Moore was doing. That is likely to be true as nowadays if players want a move they usually force it  - Foster and McClean good examples (Dawson the exception)
- Promoted youngsters into the squad gradually and now play reguarly which fans have criticised the club for not doing for numerous years
- Ahead of the Leeds game i believe had the best away records in the country in the 10 games prior to it
- Second highest scorers in the league (again after fans had complained for years how boring the football was, scoring 68 goals isnt too bad)
- Over 50% win ratio as Albion manager
- His style of football ensured more sellouts at the Albion this season than probably the previous 10 combined, if it was just a results thing then we would of sold out a lot under Pulis too as we got results for him to too often against more glamour opponenets.
- Played away to two of biggest rivals in recent weeks (Villa and Stoke) and barely got out of first gear we were that far ahead
- Won three manager of the months out of a possible 8 available
- Left the club 7 points clear of the last play off place
- Done all of this whilst selling three of our best players in recent years - Foster (would of been best goalie in the league) Evans (a class above anything in this league and many the one above) and Rondon (who even under Benitez, not exactly an attacking coach, has shown they by playing a bit more attacking purpose rather than the Pulis way, what a good quality striker he is)

Sorry, just not true, did as much to get us relegated as anyone.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Sted1990 on March 11, 2019, 01:45:21 PM
I can’t beieve the pettiness about calling him big Dave, that’s what he’s known as!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dan87uk on March 11, 2019, 02:00:24 PM
I can’t beieve the pettiness about calling him big Dave, that’s what he’s known as!

If you put "B D" (with no spaces) in on your next post the board auto corrects to Darren Moore you know :P noticed it a few weeks ago

like this: Darren Moore
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on March 11, 2019, 02:04:45 PM
This article is well worth reading and will strike a cord with every Albion fan on the rights and wrongs of sacking Darren

https://albiononsunday.wordpress.com/2019/03/10/darren-moore-head-vs-heart/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Signor_Maresca on March 11, 2019, 02:12:34 PM
Absolutely gutted about Moore.  I really hoped he would be at the helm for many years to come; he is such a goliath of a man, full of integrity and such a great person to have as the figurehead of the club.  I liked that he was trying to change our footballing philosophy and was invested in our young prospects coming through - which I think is so important for a club of our size and restraints.  The ‘we not me’ stuff was a bit naff I suppose but it encaptured the culture and ethos he was trying import.

Jokanovic seems to be the man the club want, a managerial nomad who has never stopped anywhere long enough to build anything concrete, granted he has some credibility but all the enthusiasm I had for this season feels like its gone.  All aboard yet another managerial merry-go-round.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 11, 2019, 03:46:24 PM
Moore wasn't good enough. thats it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on March 11, 2019, 04:21:19 PM
All fair points Durham baggie, on that basis you would sack him, however also worth pointing out the positives as to why it was harsh

- Took over a laughing stock of a club with a group of players which had won 4 league games in the previous 44, yet managed to win 3 and drew 2 of the last 6 against some of the biggest teams in the country to stop us going down with a record as one of the worst premier league clubs in history
- Introduced a new passing style of football after fans had repeatedly complained about style for the 3 or 4 years previous-
- Attracted the leagues best player Harvey Barnes who turned down a better offer from Leeds to play for Darren Moore and his style of football
- Gayle, Holgate, Murphy all stated the reason they chose Albion was to play in Darren Moores team and they way he wanted to play
- Gareth Barry and Jake Livermore stated as of a few weeks ago that the players who stayed agreed to it as they believed in what Darren Moore was doing. That is likely to be true as nowadays if players want a move they usually force it  - Foster and McClean good examples (Dawson the exception)
- Promoted youngsters into the squad gradually and now play reguarly which fans have criticised the club for not doing for numerous years
- Ahead of the Leeds game i believe had the best away records in the country in the 10 games prior to it
- Second highest scorers in the league (again after fans had complained for years how boring the football was, scoring 68 goals isnt too bad)
- Over 50% win ratio as Albion manager
- His style of football ensured more sellouts at the Albion this season than probably the previous 10 combined, if it was just a results thing then we would of sold out a lot under Pulis too as we got results for him to too often against more glamour opponenets.
- Played away to two of biggest rivals in recent weeks (Villa and Stoke) and barely got out of first gear we were that far ahead
- Won three manager of the months out of a possible 8 available
- Left the club 7 points clear of the last play off place
- Done all of this whilst selling three of our best players in recent years - Foster (would of been best goalie in the league) Evans (a class above anything in this league and many the one above) and Rondon (who even under Benitez, not exactly an attacking coach, has shown they by playing a bit more attacking purpose rather than the Pulis way, what a good quality striker he is)

This would be my perspective too. Agree on the players sold. said all along Foster was our best player (proved it with Watford this year) who got Pulis a load of points...
Evans was our best defender and is quality. People saying he isn’t are going on his form from last year. If that’s the case then we don’t have the best squad in the league as we were rubbish last year and finished bottom.
Rondon proving he’s a decent striker and was playing well under Moore at the end of last season. It’s as if those players are the spine of a team.
Our home form is really poor but surely you have to look at our away form too. The way some supporters have talked the home form is all that is counted when looking at the league table.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on March 11, 2019, 05:09:40 PM
I didn't go to the Ipswich game (weekend in Paris for my girlfriends birthday), but everything I've seen and heard says we were right to let him go.

The fact is he got 6 games as a stop-gap, and that should have been it. The problem was he did well enough in those six games that it meant the club thought that he (and those players) were good enough to get us out of the Championship. Neither has been true, at least as far as automatic promotion goes.

I'm not going to go through the litany of complaints I had about him during the season, enough has been said, suffice to say he was found wanting tactically. It's a harsh decision, one I'm sad about, because I really wanted him to succeed. And I feel bad about his sacking, but he was out of his depth, bailed out by individual performances earlier in the season.

We should really have given him until the summer, but had we done so on current form we could have been outside even the play-offs at that point; the club have made it clear that financially, we need promotion.

Getting beaten at home by Boro and Sheffield United was bad, but getting outclassed by Leeds was probably the final straw in most peoples eyes. I hope he goes on to get a decent job, and come back stronger for the experience.

What I will say is that I saw a change when Graeme Jones walked in the door, and it wasn't one that I was fond of. If Moore had got in a different number 2, I think things would have been better.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 11, 2019, 05:12:03 PM
I didn't go to the Ipswich game (weekend in Paris for my girlfriends birthday), but everything I've seen and heard says we were right to let him go.

The fact is he got 6 games as a stop-gap, and that should have been it. The problem was he did well enough in those six games that it meant the club thought that he (and those players) were good enough to get us out of the Championship. Neither has been true, at least as far as automatic promotion goes.

I'm not going to go through the litany of complaints I had about him during the season, enough has been said, suffice to say he was found wanting tactically. It's a harsh decision, one I'm sad about, because I really wanted him to succeed. And I feel bad about his sacking, but he was out of his depth, bailed out by individual performances earlier in the season.

We should really have given him until the summer, but had we done so on current form we could have been outside even the play-offs at that point; the club have made it clear that financially, we need promotion.

Getting beaten at home by Boro and Sheffield United was bad, but getting outclassed by Leeds was probably the final straw in most peoples eyes. I hope he goes on to get a decent job, and come back stronger for the experience.

What I will say is that I saw a change when Graeme Jones walked in the door, and it wasn't one that I was fond of. If Moore had got in a different number 2, I think things would have been better.


I think we'd have won the league easily had we kept Foster and Rondon and stayed compact and pragmatic in style. Would have gone down like a lead balloon though. I don't think it was a mistake to give Darren the job, but his naivety and trust particularly in Jones and his methods have cost him big time.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: letmereadposts on March 11, 2019, 05:17:22 PM
This article is well worth reading and will strike a cord with every Albion fan on the rights and wrongs of sacking Darren

https://albiononsunday.wordpress.com/2019/03/10/darren-moore-head-vs-heart/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


Thank you for sharing.

I particularly enjoyed this - "As a supporter, football should be melodramatic indulgence. As an owner it is hard business. Fans should always aspire to the former, aesthetic dream of football, no matter its patent absurdity. When we buy too far into the business part it becomes transactional and frankly pointless."



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 11, 2019, 05:24:09 PM

Thank you for sharing.

I particularly enjoyed this - "As a supporter, football should be melodramatic indulgence. As an owner it is hard business. Fans should always aspire to the former, aesthetic dream of football, no matter its patent absurdity. When we buy too far into the business part it becomes transactional and frankly pointless."

Totally agree, at the end of the day its 22 blokes kicking a ball on a pitch, people pay for the experience and the passion and all that goes with it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on March 11, 2019, 05:28:38 PM
I haven't seen the board this divided since the days of Jeremy Peace.
Yes, we were correct to sack him, if people couldn't see the reason's why he was sacked, then maybe football isn't for you.
I am still in shock with his decisions in the Brighton game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: letmereadposts on March 11, 2019, 05:34:19 PM
I haven't seen the board this divided since the days of Jeremy Peace.
Yes, we were correct to sack him, if people couldn't see the reason's why he was sacked, then maybe football isn't for you.
I am still in shock with his decisions in the Brighton game.

Below the belt. If the board had no intent of giving Darren Moore a full season to succeed or fail then why appoint in the first place? Maybe football isn't for them.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 11, 2019, 05:42:09 PM
Below the belt. If the board had no intent of giving Darren Moore a full season to succeed or fail then why appoint in the first place? Maybe football isn't for them.

Some people buy what ever line the board spin. Moore was not backed in the transfer market to replace Phillips or Barnes and the players we have are not good enough for automatic.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: NathWBA on March 11, 2019, 05:43:39 PM
Below the belt. If the board had no intent of giving Darren Moore a full season to succeed or fail then why appoint in the first place? Maybe football isn't for them.
the board were in a lose lose situation, they were put in a situation by media and a section of fans that made it almost impossible to not give it him, they were then in a position that no matter when he was sacked there was going to be the sentimental argument and uproar from certain sections
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Black Pearl on March 11, 2019, 05:45:10 PM
As I said in an earlier post, I'm no knee jerker, but on Saturday, it was obvious the trajectory was only downwards, any team in the league bar Ipswich would have beaten us and Ipswich should have with our defensive incompetence.

Had we made the playoffs (and that was doubtful based on Saturday) we would have failed miserably, at least now, we have a chance again.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tlms-p23 on March 11, 2019, 05:45:47 PM
Baggies podcast from the Express and Star is out with Matt Wilson, who I think talks a lot of sense and is a fan.

Worth a listen if you've got some time. Pretty in-depth on the season so far, Moore, the opinion of the board, his sacking and what comes next.

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/03/11/baggies-broadcast-season-2-episode-32-thank-you-darren-moore/

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: letmereadposts on March 11, 2019, 05:47:02 PM
the board were in a lose lose situation, they were put in a situation by media and a section of fans that made it almost impossible to not give it him, they were then in a position that no matter when he was sacked there was going to be the sentimental argument and uproar from certain sections

I'm not buying that. The timing is what has made all so questionable for me as a fan.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BAGGIE5 on March 11, 2019, 06:04:50 PM
What i dont get is.. if they weren’t going to have someone in quickly. Why not leave the sacking until the international break?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 11, 2019, 06:05:40 PM
What i dont get is.. if they weren’t going to have someone in quickly. Why not leave the sacking until the international break?


In case we beat Swansea and Brentford.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Black Pearl on March 11, 2019, 06:12:47 PM

In case we beat Swansea and Brentford.

Which was dubious with our suicidal defending, that alone had to stop, it was like a madness, any decent coach would have stopped it months ago, but it still continued with no benefit, if it enabled us to attack quickly it may have been worthwhile, but it NEVER did, we just passed it around the back until we lost it and presented the opposition with a chance.

Other teams pressed us because they knew we were pooh at passing out, the obvious counter to being pressed is to play it long straight away, but Darren never learned, never changed and for that alone, he can have no complaints about being sacked.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on March 11, 2019, 06:13:01 PM
I'm not buying that. The timing is what has made all so questionable for me as a fan.

I too disagree with that.

Our board of disasters is full of people who have their self interest at heart and they should concentrate on the interests of the club.

They should have looked the fact that this squad had clearly stopped playing for the fans and then started again like a tap when DM took over.

If should have been dismantled then in the summer under the guidance of a proper experienced manager like Chris Wilder who knew this division and the lower divisions and the untapped talent there.

I love DM, for his efforts that took us back to a division I never thought I would see us play in, but I said he needed to go and learn his trade and and earn the Albion job by doing well elsewhere.

It appears that DM was what I suspected a very loyal person and that is shown in the way he has treated GJ, when others could see he was using us as a stepping stone to get his name out there with in regular appearances on talksport.

I remember at the time I had never seen an assistant promoting himself in such a way, and we now know he could be off to luton and probably in the same division as us.

Personally I think his plan was to take us over after DM got the boot.

The fact Darren Moore didn't sack him if it is true that he was going to Luton in the summer says it all imo.

Way to nice to be ruthless manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 11, 2019, 06:26:40 PM
TalkSport going down the racism route of course...

Wait for the first idiot to bite.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: VANDERLEI on March 11, 2019, 06:32:59 PM
TalkSport going down the racism route of course...

Wait for the first idiot to bite.

I hate talk sport. Bunch of time wasters.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: glosterbaggie on March 11, 2019, 07:00:53 PM
A Norwich fan's view. I fear he may be right?

"I'm a Norwich fan. And for 15 years, more or less, West Brom were, in my view, the model club for clubs of our size.

Gary Megson came in with them on the verge of relegation to the third tier. Kept them up, just... then through sheer bloody-mindedness and force of personality, transformed them into the biggest overachievers in the division. Merely making the playoffs in 2001 was remarkable; automatic promotion the following season, as Wolves produced their worst - and most hilarious - choke ever, was an astonishing achievement.

All they ever were under Megson were hard workers - so down they inevitably went, but crucially, straight back up they came. Then Bryan Robson kept them up, albeit more by luck than judgement - and then, importantly, Tony Mowbray was brought in to change their style of play. They were honest cloggers under Megson and Robson; Mowbray's task was to make them more cerebral, because this was what'd give them a real chance of establishing themselves in the top flight.

Trouble was, no Tony Mowbray team has ever been able to defend for toffee. Once again, they yo-yoed (or rather, boing-boinged), but the breakthrough was coming. Most neutral observers thought Roberto di Matteo's sacking was harsh. I didn't. They'd been steadily going backwards under him; whereas Roy Hodgson's calm, intelligent approach meant they finally crossed the rubicon separating 'yo-yo club' from 'established Premier League club'. That'd taken over a decade of patient, piecemeal gains: never getting ahead of themselves, never having delusions of grandeur, always running a tight ship and making damn good boardroom decisions.

Then briefly, Steve Clarke seemed to offer something even more... before they all but imploded under him, making his sacking the correct decision too. As long as, that is, they had the right man to replace him. Pepe Mel obviously wasn't - and whereas Tony Pulis was always going to keep them up, this was where the rot set in. Because there's only so much constant "nullify, nullify, track back, hoof the bugger ball into the box, no football please, I'm Tony Pulis" eye-bleeding anti-football which any fanbase anywhere can take. I know the likes of Berahino or Rondon can't be too popular with Baggies fans... but look at it from their point of view. Was this even the same sport they grew up playing? THIS was football?!

And the thing about life in the Premier League is: it always asks the question, "what next?" Somehow, under Jeremy Peace, one of the best football club owners of the last 20 years, West Brom, despite never spending all that much, had always found the answer. Now, they stopped doing so. Which is where what Darren Moore did was so remarkable. He breathed new life back into a club which had gone completely stale, and had sold its soul to Chinese owners who clearly don't have the first clue about the club or its supporters. He won the fans, so disenchanted by life under Pulis and Pardew, back. They loved him and he loved them.

Any board with any understanding of football at all would've given Moore time. Not just because of the patience required in such a competitive league... but because he was so popular. Heaven only knows how many fans have been alienated completely by this ridiculous decision. Everything that Peace built up so gradually has been wrecked - and as the likes of Charlton have found in the past, just one reckless decision can do so so much harm to a club's long term future.

For the record: I was never convinced by Moore's Baggies this season, and never felt they'd go up. They've been papering over large cracks. But those cracks are mostly the board's fault. You cannot demand automatic promotion while refusing to spend money, plenty of it. I'm sure Wolves' success, and their hugely promising position longer term, has added to the pressure and sense of urgency which the board feel: the pendulum between the two clubs has swung, massively. But as one of the best fanbases in the country, West Brom fans don't expect the Earth. Moore gave them their club back - and now, it's been wrenched away from them.

This decision will almost certainly haunt the club for years. West Bromwich Albion just shot Bambi. He'll be fine: other clubs are bound to be interested in him. But WBA, very likely, won't be. Watch them drift down the league next season now; and watch the fans turn against the owners amid increasing anger. Football is about community. Darren Moore embodied that. This shower of a board wouldn't understand it if it smacked them round the face."
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 11, 2019, 07:03:07 PM
A Norwich fan's view. I fear he may be right?

"I'm a Norwich fan. And for 15 years, more or less, West Brom were, in my view, the model club for clubs of our size.

Gary Megson came in with them on the verge of relegation to the third tier. Kept them up, just... then through sheer bloody-mindedness and force of personality, transformed them into the biggest overachievers in the division. Merely making the playoffs in 2001 was remarkable; automatic promotion the following season, as Wolves produced their worst - and most hilarious - choke ever, was an astonishing achievement.

All they ever were under Megson were hard workers - so down they inevitably went, but crucially, straight back up they came. Then Bryan Robson kept them up, albeit more by luck than judgement - and then, importantly, Tony Mowbray was brought in to change their style of play. They were honest cloggers under Megson and Robson; Mowbray's task was to make them more cerebral, because this was what'd give them a real chance of establishing themselves in the top flight.

Trouble was, no Tony Mowbray team has ever been able to defend for toffee. Once again, they yo-yoed (or rather, boing-boinged), but the breakthrough was coming. Most neutral observers thought Roberto di Matteo's sacking was harsh. I didn't. They'd been steadily going backwards under him; whereas Roy Hodgson's calm, intelligent approach meant they finally crossed the rubicon separating 'yo-yo club' from 'established Premier League club'. That'd taken over a decade of patient, piecemeal gains: never getting ahead of themselves, never having delusions of grandeur, always running a tight ship and making damn good boardroom decisions.

Then briefly, Steve Clarke seemed to offer something even more... before they all but imploded under him, making his sacking the correct decision too. As long as, that is, they had the right man to replace him. Pepe Mel obviously wasn't - and whereas Tony Pulis was always going to keep them up, this was where the rot set in. Because there's only so much constant "nullify, nullify, track back, hoof the bugger ball into the box, no football please, I'm Tony Pulis" eye-bleeding anti-football which any fanbase anywhere can take. I know the likes of Berahino or Rondon can't be too popular with Baggies fans... but look at it from their point of view. Was this even the same sport they grew up playing? THIS was football?!

And the thing about life in the Premier League is: it always asks the question, "what next?" Somehow, under Jeremy Peace, one of the best football club owners of the last 20 years, West Brom, despite never spending all that much, had always found the answer. Now, they stopped doing so. Which is where what Darren Moore did was so remarkable. He breathed new life back into a club which had gone completely stale, and had sold its soul to Chinese owners who clearly don't have the first clue about the club or its supporters. He won the fans, so disenchanted by life under Pulis and Pardew, back. They loved him and he loved them.

Any board with any understanding of football at all would've given Moore time. Not just because of the patience required in such a competitive league... but because he was so popular. Heaven only knows how many fans have been alienated completely by this ridiculous decision. Everything that Peace built up so gradually has been wrecked - and as the likes of Charlton have found in the past, just one reckless decision can do so so much harm to a club's long term future.

For the record: I was never convinced by Moore's Baggies this season, and never felt they'd go up. They've been papering over large cracks. But those cracks are mostly the board's fault. You cannot demand automatic promotion while refusing to spend money, plenty of it. I'm sure Wolves' success, and their hugely promising position longer term, has added to the pressure and sense of urgency which the board feel: the pendulum between the two clubs has swung, massively. But as one of the best fanbases in the country, West Brom fans don't expect the Earth. Moore gave them their club back - and now, it's been wrenched away from them.

This decision will almost certainly haunt the club for years. West Bromwich Albion just shot Bambi. He'll be fine: other clubs are bound to be interested in him. But WBA, very likely, won't be. Watch them drift down the league next season now; and watch the fans turn against the owners amid increasing anger. Football is about community. Darren Moore embodied that. This shower of a board wouldn't understand it if it smacked them round the face."
An outsider looking in.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on March 11, 2019, 07:17:54 PM
The Norwich fan makes some interesting points of course but he is just that, an outsider looking in.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on March 11, 2019, 07:30:27 PM
A Norwich fan's view. I fear he may be right?

"I'm a Norwich fan. And for 15 years, more or less, West Brom were, in my view, the model club for clubs of our size.

Gary Megson came in with them on the verge of relegation to the third tier. Kept them up, just... then through sheer bloody-mindedness and force of personality, transformed them into the biggest overachievers in the division. Merely making the playoffs in 2001 was remarkable; automatic promotion the following season, as Wolves produced their worst - and most hilarious - choke ever, was an astonishing achievement.

All they ever were under Megson were hard workers - so down they inevitably went, but crucially, straight back up they came. Then Bryan Robson kept them up, albeit more by luck than judgement - and then, importantly, Tony Mowbray was brought in to change their style of play. They were honest cloggers under Megson and Robson; Mowbray's task was to make them more cerebral, because this was what'd give them a real chance of establishing themselves in the top flight.

Trouble was, no Tony Mowbray team has ever been able to defend for toffee. Once again, they yo-yoed (or rather, boing-boinged), but the breakthrough was coming. Most neutral observers thought Roberto di Matteo's sacking was harsh. I didn't. They'd been steadily going backwards under him; whereas Roy Hodgson's calm, intelligent approach meant they finally crossed the rubicon separating 'yo-yo club' from 'established Premier League club'. That'd taken over a decade of patient, piecemeal gains: never getting ahead of themselves, never having delusions of grandeur, always running a tight ship and making damn good boardroom decisions.

Then briefly, Steve Clarke seemed to offer something even more... before they all but imploded under him, making his sacking the correct decision too. As long as, that is, they had the right man to replace him. Pepe Mel obviously wasn't - and whereas Tony Pulis was always going to keep them up, this was where the rot set in. Because there's only so much constant "nullify, nullify, track back, hoof the bugger ball into the box, no football please, I'm Tony Pulis" eye-bleeding anti-football which any fanbase anywhere can take. I know the likes of Berahino or Rondon can't be too popular with Baggies fans... but look at it from their point of view. Was this even the same sport they grew up playing? THIS was football?!

And the thing about life in the Premier League is: it always asks the question, "what next?" Somehow, under Jeremy Peace, one of the best football club owners of the last 20 years, West Brom, despite never spending all that much, had always found the answer. Now, they stopped doing so. Which is where what Darren Moore did was so remarkable. He breathed new life back into a club which had gone completely stale, and had sold its soul to Chinese owners who clearly don't have the first clue about the club or its supporters. He won the fans, so disenchanted by life under Pulis and Pardew, back. They loved him and he loved them.

Any board with any understanding of football at all would've given Moore time. Not just because of the patience required in such a competitive league... but because he was so popular. Heaven only knows how many fans have been alienated completely by this ridiculous decision. Everything that Peace built up so gradually has been wrecked - and as the likes of Charlton have found in the past, just one reckless decision can do so so much harm to a club's long term future.

For the record: I was never convinced by Moore's Baggies this season, and never felt they'd go up. They've been papering over large cracks. But those cracks are mostly the board's fault. You cannot demand automatic promotion while refusing to spend money, plenty of it. I'm sure Wolves' success, and their hugely promising position longer term, has added to the pressure and sense of urgency which the board feel: the pendulum between the two clubs has swung, massively. But as one of the best fanbases in the country, West Brom fans don't expect the Earth. Moore gave them their club back - and now, it's been wrenched away from them.

This decision will almost certainly haunt the club for years. West Bromwich Albion just shot Bambi. He'll be fine: other clubs are bound to be interested in him. But WBA, very likely, won't be. Watch them drift down the league next season now; and watch the fans turn against the owners amid increasing anger. Football is about community. Darren Moore embodied that. This shower of a board wouldn't understand it if it smacked them round the face."

Personally, I don't think £38 million on wages is too bad for an ambitious Championship Club.
I have no doubt that Jones was the brains behind DM'S Management team, I wonder how much Jones alleged decision to go to Luton in the summer has influenced the board.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 11, 2019, 07:34:02 PM
The Norwich fan makes more sense then most on here. How people still think Murphy is a decent replacement for Barns and Montero is any where near Phillips level and still claim we have the best in the league is laughable. If we don't go up that is the number one reason why for me. No doubt the football club board Shills will be along to blame it all on Moore.

How much of the £38 mill on wages is on players that took us down not replacements to get us back up. I doubt that figures is right anyway.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on March 11, 2019, 07:42:14 PM
That Norwich fan post is very spot on. I used to be very proud of how this club was ran
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on March 11, 2019, 07:49:08 PM
There's more than one side to every story but the web fingered fen dweller does indeed post much sense.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Black Pearl on March 11, 2019, 07:50:55 PM
A Norwich fan's view. I fear he may be right?

"I'm a Norwich fan. And for 15 years, more or less, West Brom were, in my view, the model club for clubs of our size.

Gary Megson came in with them on the verge of relegation to the third tier. Kept them up, just... then through sheer bloody-mindedness and force of personality, transformed them into the biggest overachievers in the division. Merely making the playoffs in 2001 was remarkable; automatic promotion the following season, as Wolves produced their worst - and most hilarious - choke ever, was an astonishing achievement.

All they ever were under Megson were hard workers - so down they inevitably went, but crucially, straight back up they came. Then Bryan Robson kept them up, albeit more by luck than judgement - and then, importantly, Tony Mowbray was brought in to change their style of play. They were honest cloggers under Megson and Robson; Mowbray's task was to make them more cerebral, because this was what'd give them a real chance of establishing themselves in the top flight.

Trouble was, no Tony Mowbray team has ever been able to defend for toffee. Once again, they yo-yoed (or rather, boing-boinged), but the breakthrough was coming. Most neutral observers thought Roberto di Matteo's sacking was harsh. I didn't. They'd been steadily going backwards under him; whereas Roy Hodgson's calm, intelligent approach meant they finally crossed the rubicon separating 'yo-yo club' from 'established Premier League club'. That'd taken over a decade of patient, piecemeal gains: never getting ahead of themselves, never having delusions of grandeur, always running a tight ship and making damn good boardroom decisions.

Then briefly, Steve Clarke seemed to offer something even more... before they all but imploded under him, making his sacking the correct decision too. As long as, that is, they had the right man to replace him. Pepe Mel obviously wasn't - and whereas Tony Pulis was always going to keep them up, this was where the rot set in. Because there's only so much constant "nullify, nullify, track back, hoof the bugger ball into the box, no football please, I'm Tony Pulis" eye-bleeding anti-football which any fanbase anywhere can take. I know the likes of Berahino or Rondon can't be too popular with Baggies fans... but look at it from their point of view. Was this even the same sport they grew up playing? THIS was football?!

And the thing about life in the Premier League is: it always asks the question, "what next?" Somehow, under Jeremy Peace, one of the best football club owners of the last 20 years, West Brom, despite never spending all that much, had always found the answer. Now, they stopped doing so. Which is where what Darren Moore did was so remarkable. He breathed new life back into a club which had gone completely stale, and had sold its soul to Chinese owners who clearly don't have the first clue about the club or its supporters. He won the fans, so disenchanted by life under Pulis and Pardew, back. They loved him and he loved them.

Any board with any understanding of football at all would've given Moore time. Not just because of the patience required in such a competitive league... but because he was so popular. Heaven only knows how many fans have been alienated completely by this ridiculous decision. Everything that Peace built up so gradually has been wrecked - and as the likes of Charlton have found in the past, just one reckless decision can do so so much harm to a club's long term future.

For the record: I was never convinced by Moore's Baggies this season, and never felt they'd go up. They've been papering over large cracks. But those cracks are mostly the board's fault. You cannot demand automatic promotion while refusing to spend money, plenty of it. I'm sure Wolves' success, and their hugely promising position longer term, has added to the pressure and sense of urgency which the board feel: the pendulum between the two clubs has swung, massively. But as one of the best fanbases in the country, West Brom fans don't expect the Earth. Moore gave them their club back - and now, it's been wrenched away from them.

This decision will almost certainly haunt the club for years. West Bromwich Albion just shot Bambi. He'll be fine: other clubs are bound to be interested in him. But WBA, very likely, won't be. Watch them drift down the league next season now; and watch the fans turn against the owners amid increasing anger. Football is about community. Darren Moore embodied that. This shower of a board wouldn't understand it if it smacked them round the face."

Its a good generally well balanced piece, but whilst its nice to write "its about community" its not, its about money, something Jeremy Peace never forgot, he never was concerned with community, quite the opposite, the share grab ensured that.

I'll predict now that Darren Moore will not make it as a coach, lovely guy and all that, but making the same mistakes over and over and over and over again show he is out of his depth.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on March 11, 2019, 07:52:29 PM
Baggies podcast from the Express and Star is out with Matt Wilson, who I think talks a lot of sense and is a fan.

Worth a listen if you've got some time. Pretty in-depth on the season so far, Moore, the opinion of the board, his sacking and what comes next.

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/03/11/baggies-broadcast-season-2-episode-32-thank-you-darren-moore/

Interesting he says Jones had already agreed to go to Luton in the summer and was manager by proxy.

If that’s true it’s another nail in DM’s coffin as we would essentially be losing our ‘manager’ in the summer.

DM probably was too nice, which is no surprise but should make the decision more understandable for those in doubt
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on March 11, 2019, 08:09:34 PM
What a stupid reply why would I want to go to Blackpool!?
😂😂😂
You might like streetfighting and lap dancing
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: section5 on March 11, 2019, 08:09:43 PM
If football was run on sentiments and morality then I'd get it but its not.Also can anyone seriously quite suggest that they thought this was the right time for DM? The good performances last season made it impossible for him not to get the job but for me the risk of appointing Moore was too much considering what we could lose this season. That's why this decision seems so cut throat but in reality, from a business sense it was probably the right move. Our overheads have got to be at the top of the league.. how do people expect us to make up the deficit of the TV money if we dont go up... sell all our best players and become a shell of the team we are even now? The fact of the matter is that anyone watching us consistently this season will be able to allude to the fact that there has been far more occasions where we have relied on luck or individual brilliance than solid team cohesion and performances. That's got us to 4th in the league but its clear we've been found out and our threats nullified? People may point to the fact we switched formation against Leeds at home or we've had injuries like Phillips.. the point is we should have a plan b,c,d and e for all these things and we don't. I love DM but since Barnes has left can anyone seriously say that they have been satisfied or we look likely for promotion? He'll always be a legend but I felt this was never going to end well. He should have been nurtured in some sort of role with an experienced manager to see the highs and lows and mistakes to avoid that is being a championship manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on March 11, 2019, 08:16:05 PM
The Norwich fan makes more sense then most on here. How people still think Murphy is a decent replacement for Barns and Montero is any where near Phillips level and still claim we have the best in the league is laughable. If we don't go up that is the number one reason why for me. No doubt the football club board Shills will be along to blame it all on Moore.

How much of the £38 mill on wages is on players that took us down not replacements to get us back up. I doubt that figures is right anyway.
How people can come on a board of opinions and have the disrespect to call others opinions laughable.....could be deemed laughable
Montero against Sheffield Utd was much more direct and positive than Phillips has been since he came back
I personally think we do have the best first 11 in this league, if utilised correctly .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 11, 2019, 08:26:42 PM
Have to say the Adrian Durham stuff is disgraceful.

If i was the club lawyers i would be looking into that because he has implied that Darren Moore was sacked because he was black which is nonsense. Fans may be split on the decision but i have yet to see any fan say he was sacked because he was black and fans normally are the most irrational when it comes to things like this.

As a club who has broke down many barriers and did / do so much to promote black participation in football i think its an insult that some jumped up click bait 'presenter' should be allowed to spout his views on a national platform when there is not one bit of evidence to suggest he is right, problem is if you phone or text in then you are giving him exactly what he wants.

I know people like Durham are there for that reason but there is a big difference between saying so and so is off form, or the club have made a bad appointment, the ground manager isnt doing a good enough job, to then jump into racism accusations.

I actually dont think it helps when people like Troy Townsend are immediately out implying a racism angle too, its a lazy accusation, if they looked into it they would see except for Pulis, Albion have sacked managers after six months on average for a number of years - Mel, Irvine, Pardew, they are all white.

There are loads of good black coaches out there, i get to work with a few of them and they have said themselves that although some clubs dont appointment managers due to their skin colour (which is a disgrace) other clubs are also scared of the above scenario happening - appoint a black manager, if it doesnt work out they get sacked and then the club is accused or racism.

Its not fair on good coaches who want a chance but are being restricted because of the backlash if things dont work out if they get the chance.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on March 11, 2019, 08:33:38 PM
Have to say the Adrian Durham stuff is disgraceful.

If i was the club lawyers i would be looking into that because he has implied that Darren Moore was sacked because he was black which is nonsense. Fans may be split on the decision but i have yet to see any fan say he was sacked because he was black and fans normally are the most irrational when it comes to things like this.

As a club who has broke down many barriers and did / do so much to promote black participation in football i think its an insult that some jumped up click bait 'presenter' should be allowed to spout his views on a national platform when there is not one bit of evidence to suggest he is right, problem is if you phone or text in then you are giving him exactly what he wants.

I know people like Durham are there for that reason but there is a big difference between saying so and so is off form, or the club have made a bad appointment, the ground manager isnt doing a good enough job, to then jump into racism accusations.

I actually dont think it helps when people like Troy Townsend are immediately out implying a racism angle too, its a lazy accusation, if they looked into it they would see except for Pulis, Albion have sacked managers after six months on average for a number of years - Mel, Irvine, Pardew, they are all white.

There are loads of good black coaches out there, i get to work with a few of them and they have said themselves that although some clubs dont appointment managers due to their skin colour (which is a disgrace) other clubs are also scared of the above scenario happening - appoint a black manager, if it doesnt work out they get sacked and then the club is accused or racism.

Its not fair on good coaches who want a chance but are being restricted because of the backlash if things dont work out if they get the chance.

You opened with Talk sport and Adrian Durham. They are a radio station that thrive on saying inflammatory things to get a reaction (they employ Jim White).
I assume Durham didn’t point out that we were one of very few teams (maybe 3 off the top of my head) in the top two divisions to actually appoint a black manager...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: leeiswba on March 11, 2019, 08:34:59 PM
You opened with Talk sport and Adrian Durham. They are a radio station that thrive on saying inflammatory things to get a reaction (they employ Jim White).
I assume Durham didn’t point out that we were one of very few teams (maybe 3 off the top of my head) in the top two divisions to actually appoint a black manager...

Yes, but he said we employed him because we had no choice not because we wanted to!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 11, 2019, 08:38:26 PM
Everyone knows what Talksport are like and what they do, they like to talk about should managers be getting sacked, players been out of form, etc as it gets a rise but i think when they start throwing a very serious subject like racism about, thats a line crossed even for them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tommcneill on March 11, 2019, 08:44:03 PM
Have to say the Adrian Durham stuff is disgraceful.

If i was the club lawyers i would be looking into that because he has implied that Darren Moore was sacked because he was black which is nonsense. Fans may be split on the decision but i have yet to see any fan say he was sacked because he was black and fans normally are the most irrational when it comes to things like this.

As a club who has broke down many barriers and did / do so much to promote black participation in football i think its an insult that some jumped up click bait 'presenter' should be allowed to spout his views on a national platform when there is not one bit of evidence to suggest he is right, problem is if you phone or text in then you are giving him exactly what he wants.

I know people like Durham are there for that reason but there is a big difference between saying so and so is off form, or the club have made a bad appointment, the ground manager isnt doing a good enough job, to then jump into racism accusations.

I actually dont think it helps when people like Troy Townsend are immediately out implying a racism angle too, its a lazy accusation, if they looked into it they would see except for Pulis, Albion have sacked managers after six months on average for a number of years - Mel, Irvine, Pardew, they are all white.

There are loads of good black coaches out there, i get to work with a few of them and they have said themselves that although some clubs dont appointment managers due to their skin colour (which is a disgrace) other clubs are also scared of the above scenario happening - appoint a black manager, if it doesnt work out they get sacked and then the club is accused or racism.

Its not fair on good coaches who want a chance but are being restricted because of the backlash if things dont work out if they get the chance.

I’ve just had this argument on a banter page on FB...they posted about Talksports angle  and basically every black guy called me out as a racist for agreeing he should be sacked.

When I went into our proud club tradition of breaking the barriers of racism with Regis, Cunningham et al..I was told that was a load of rubbish as we employed Atkinson who is a racist! They all agree it was a racist decision to sack him, because we are 4th!

This is the world we live in now, when even a manager who gets rightly relieved of his duties is now only sacked because he is black. I asked how did he get the job in the first place...no replies
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: elkiellis on March 11, 2019, 09:19:27 PM
What i dont get is.. if they weren’t going to have someone in quickly. Why not leave the sacking until the international break?
Because we would be sitting about 8th by then had Dave carried on,even the caretaker only has to read the posts on here regarding who plays where and formations,take notice and we will be fine,after Ipswich it can only get better,famous last words
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 11, 2019, 09:25:31 PM
I’ve just had this argument on a banter page on FB...they posted about Talksports angle  and basically every black guy called me out as a racist for agreeing he should be sacked.

When I went into our proud club tradition of breaking the barriers of racism with Regis, Cunningham et al..I was told that was a load of rubbish as we employed Atkinson who is a racist! They all agree it was a racist decision to sack him, because we are 4th!

This is the world we live in now, when even a manager who gets rightly relieved of his duties is now only sacked because he is black. I asked how did he get the job in the first place...no replies

Well put sir.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 11, 2019, 09:35:53 PM
Whether Moore could of coped with the pressure of the playoffs is one thing but there is no evidence to suggest we wouldnt of made them, as somebody pointed out above we have more points from the last 15 games than we did the first 15.

we have hardly been out the top 6 all season and currently have a 7 point gap, if automatic was what he was told was the target and he agreed to it then it looks like he failed, however if play offs was the target he was well on course to reach them.

like i say whether he was savvy enough to get us up once in them is another thing entirely.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on March 11, 2019, 11:29:12 PM
I’ve just had this argument on a banter page on FB...This is the world we live in now, when even a manager who gets rightly relieved of his duties is now only sacked because he is black. I asked how did he get the job in the first place...no replies

And therein lies the route of your problems earlier, Facefk...... who on earth thought they could have any kind of reasoned debate on that clusterfk of a medium - ever? Wasting your time chap.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on March 12, 2019, 12:34:03 AM
Everyone knows what Talksport are like and what they do, they like to talk about should managers be getting sacked, players been out of form, etc as it gets a rise but i think when they start throwing a very serious subject like racism about, thats a line crossed even for them.

Agreed. They incite strong opinions / emotions and then have the nerve to turn round and condemn the behaviours they caused. The self righteousness and narcissism that are rampant in western culture are personified by this radio station. I have always enjoyed Hawksbee and Jacobs but then turn off the radio. If you look at the rest of their presenters it’s all you need to know. I’ve always had a lot of time for Colin Murray who quit talk sport as a matter of principal in terms of who owns them...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on March 12, 2019, 02:39:16 AM
Talksport have just been about the race issue again on their show after 1 am and on about it now with fans phoning in and it is shocking how they are trying to peddle this theory.

I understand that they have to court controversy to get idiots to ring them on their premium phones line but this rubbish is pathetic and they should look at our history of putting talent over colour.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: bangkokbaggie on March 12, 2019, 08:23:54 AM
Talksport have just been about the race issue again on their show after 1 am and on about it now with fans phoning in and it is shocking how they are trying to peddle this theory.

I understand that they have to court controversy to get idiots to ring them on their premium phones line but this rubbish is pathetic and they should look at our history of putting talent over colour.

You wonder whether the authorities should intervene if it construed as inciting racial hatred.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on March 12, 2019, 08:41:23 AM
Because we would be sitting about 8th by then had Dave carried on,even the caretaker only has to read the posts on here regarding who plays where and formations,take notice and we will be fine,after Ipswich it can only get better,famous last words

No we wouldn't there are only 2 games until the break and even if we lost both games and the teams below us all won their's we would be no lower than 6th....still in the play off places.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on March 12, 2019, 09:57:16 AM
The sacking was too early, but what all of the commentators seem to be missing is that:

A, our board is made up by 50% BME representation

and

B, Our caretaker manager (and potentially manager till end of season) is also BME.

if you are going to call thr club racist and say we treat white people different, you do need to consider these 2 things.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on March 12, 2019, 10:03:29 AM
Reading between the lines in the news reports David Wagner yesterday dismissed the job saying he wanted to wait until the Summer before taking a new position. I guess that is due to the fact that he's still being paid by Huddersfield and thinks why should I work for money when I've got a nice little earner until my contract runs out, plus the fact that we would have to pay compensation to Huddersfield if we were to appoint him now.
We, apparently, are looking towards an interim manager until the end of the season?
Makes you think that the board are not confident of landing Jokanovic and Wagner is keener than we're being led to believe
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: phbaggies on March 12, 2019, 10:08:05 AM
The sacking was too early, but what all of the commentators seem to be missing is that:

A, our board is made up by 50% BME representation

and

B, Our caretaker manager (and potentially manager till end of season) is also BME.

if you are going to call thr club racist and say we treat white people different, you do need to consider these 2 things.

Jimmy Shan is BME??
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 12, 2019, 10:50:19 AM
(https://www.wba.co.uk/api/image/cropandgreyscale/8334bbde-61c2-4703-bd37-e198ca38cc12/?preset=square&greyscale=false)

Obviously...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on March 12, 2019, 11:06:11 AM
Reading between the lines in the news reports David Wagner yesterday dismissed the job saying he wanted to wait until the Summer before taking a new position. I guess that is due to the fact that he's still being paid by Huddersfield and thinks why should I work for money when I've got a nice little earner until my contract runs out, plus the fact that we would have to pay compensation to Huddersfield if we were to appoint him now.
We, apparently, are looking towards an interim manager until the end of the season?
Makes you think that the board are not confident of landing Jokanovic and Wagner is keener than we're being led to believe

As I understand it, there is a clause in Wagner's severance agreement stating that he cannot take another managerial position until the end of this season.
If he does, the club that he joins will have to pay compensation to Huddersfield.
On the surface, it does appear that we are becoming less confident of landing Jokanavic.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on March 12, 2019, 12:27:00 PM
Chall (the baggiebird) has just put a status on twitter:

Just had a phone call... the bloke on the other end was Darren Moore and he told me to make sure the fans get behind Jimmy Shan on Wednesday


Say what you want about whether he was up for the managers job or not, but no one can argue he is a true gentleman and that's something this club will now be without.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on March 12, 2019, 12:39:39 PM
Chall (the baggiebird) has just put a status on twitter:

Just had a phone call... the bloke on the other end was Darren Moore and he told me to make sure the fans get behind Jimmy Shan on Wednesday


Say what you want about whether he was up for the managers job or not, but no one can argue he is a true gentleman and that's something this club will now be without.
I honestly believe that Darren Moore was not the wrong manager for this club, but this was the wrong club for Darren Moore.
We didn't deserve him.
I hope he finds a club that will appreciate his strengths, and give him time to build something, rather than constantly harangue him for his weaknesses.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on March 12, 2019, 01:07:43 PM
To be honest, I think he was a coach who stepped up too far. Lovely bloke, but just not cut out for it.

The Norwich fan had some very good points, but I would say where the rot really set in was losing Dan Ashworth. I don't know if breaking up his role into three was the problem, or just the lack of a long term vision, but that's where all the good work started slipping.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 12, 2019, 01:22:52 PM
Chall (the baggiebird) has just put a status on twitter:

Just had a phone call... the bloke on the other end was Darren Moore and he told me to make sure the fans get behind Jimmy Shan on Wednesday


Say what you want about whether he was up for the managers job or not, but no one can argue he is a true gentleman and that's something this club will now be without.

thats all briliant and as a man and ex player i have a lot of admiration for DM but being a gentleman does not win you automatic promotion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 12, 2019, 01:25:53 PM
I honestly believe that Darren Moore was not the wrong manager for this club, but this was the wrong club for Darren Moore.
We didn't deserve him.
I hope he finds a club that will appreciate his strengths, and give him time to build something, rather than constantly harangue him for his weaknesses.

without coming across as rude and sarcastic. seriously, what do you think his strengths were as a manager?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 12, 2019, 01:30:33 PM
I honestly believe that Darren Moore was not the wrong manager for this club, but this was the wrong club for Darren Moore.
We didn't deserve him.
I hope he finds a club that will appreciate his strengths, and give him time to build something, rather than constantly harangue him for his weaknesses.

What a ridiculous post.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on March 12, 2019, 01:40:58 PM
Absolutely disgusted with Talksport and Adrian Durham over this
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 12, 2019, 01:41:40 PM
without coming across as rude and sarcastic. seriously, what do you think his strengths were as a manager?

Getting 4th in the championship in his first season. Last seasons great fight back before we were relegated. Playing a completely different style to this season. Multiple managers of the month awards.

Not his fault we lost 66% of our midfield three and the best players after Christmas.

Many people bang on about the best squad in the championship but ignore all the injuries we had last game.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 12, 2019, 01:51:44 PM
Getting 4th in the championship in his first season. Last seasons great fight back before we were relegated. Playing a completely different style to this season. Multiple managers of the month awards.

Not his fault we lost 66% of our midfield three and the best players after Christmas.

Many people bang on about the best squad in the championship but ignore all the injuries we had last game.

....against....Ipswich...?! They had 21 points from 35 games before playing us. They are truly awful and we made them look like Barcelona at times.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 12, 2019, 01:56:04 PM
Getting 4th in the championship in his first season. Last seasons great fight back before we were relegated. Playing a completely different style to this season. Multiple managers of the month awards.

Not his fault we lost 66% of our midfield three and the best players after Christmas.

Many people bang on about the best squad in the championship but ignore all the injuries we had last game.

and in my opinion, none of those "strengths" get you automatic promotion. all clubs suffer injuries its up to the manager to manage the squad the best way possible. he never did that. he consistently played people out of position and in systems that blatantly didn't work and went on for far too long. his in game management was one of the poorest i have seen. he was playing livermore and brunt as a midfield pair for how long at the start of the season and never changed his method of playing it out from the back when it is clear as day we do not have the players to do that.

being 4th at this stage of the season with the resources available is not good enough with the resources available.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: phbaggies on March 12, 2019, 02:00:54 PM
....against....Ipswich...?! They had 21 points from 35 games before playing us. They are truly awful and we made them look like Barcelona at times.
So we should have just turned up to beat them then?, its an arrogant attitude to have, they are fighting to stay up and it showed Saturday. We have taken 4 points out of them, they have not beat us. Lets not forget Derby, Sheff Utd, Norwich and even Villa have also failed to beat Ipswich this season too....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 12, 2019, 02:02:49 PM
So we should have just turned up to beat them then?, its an arrogant attitude to have, they are fighting to stay up and it showed Saturday. We have taken 4 points out of them, they have not beat us. Lets not forget Derby, Sheff Utd, Norwich and even Villa have also failed to beat Ipswich this season too....

Who says anything about arrogance? I would expect our team to still be far superior in terms of quality, so with the right set up and attitude, yes, yes, I would fully expect us to beat them. I certainly would not expect us to allow them to come to our home ground and completely outplay us. If anyone thinks that performance was acceptable I am concerned for their football knowledge.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 12, 2019, 02:07:16 PM
So we should have just turned up to beat them then?, its an arrogant attitude to have, they are fighting to stay up and it showed Saturday. We have taken 4 points out of them, they have not beat us. Lets not forget Derby, Sheff Utd, Norwich and even Villa have also failed to beat Ipswich this season too....

They clearly did not get the memo that they were playing us and should role over, even if they are fighting for their life. As soon as the opposition saw we had one fit first team defender and no decent and fit wide players of course they were going to throw everything at us.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: phbaggies on March 12, 2019, 02:09:10 PM
Who says anything about arrogance? I would expect our team to still be far superior in terms of quality, so with the right set up and attitude, yes, yes, I would fully expect us to beat them. I certainly would expect us to allow them to come to our home ground and completely outplay us. If anyone thinks that performance was acceptable I am concerned for their football knowledge.
That performance was shocking, but for every bit that we were poor they were good, it was at times a good end to end match, they didnt sit back and defend and deserve a fair bit of credit for taking the game to us. Sometimes expectations are not met, we are Albion fans and know this well!! But these games happen, who expected Palace to bang in 3 away at City and win?? Who expected Utd to turn a 2-0 deficit around at PSG, etc etc ....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on March 12, 2019, 02:11:23 PM
They clearly did not get the memo that they were playing us and should role over, even if they are fighting for their life. As soon as the opposition saw we had one fit first team defender and no decent and fit wide players of course they were going to throw everything at us.
They are down except for the last mathematical rites, so they could do what we did the last six games last year and just throw everything at it whatever team we put out.  We still should have been good enough to win though!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 12, 2019, 02:13:04 PM
That performance was shocking, but for every bit that we were poor they were good, it was at times a good end to end match, they didnt sit back and defend and deserve a fair bit of credit for taking the game to us. Sometimes expectations are not met, we are Albion fans and know this well!! But these games happen, who expected Palace to bang in 3 away at City and win?? Who expected Utd to turn a 2-0 deficit around at PSG, etc etc ....

It became a continuous theme...which is why those who are paid to make such decisions made the big decision. The litmus test for him came in this past week or so and he completely ballsed it up and ruined our shot at automatic promotion by not only failing to beat Sheff Utd and Leeds, but putting out a team to play absolutely awfully in both games, showing no ability to change a game in his role as head coach. The Ipswich game was just the icing on the cake that proved it was only headed in one direction.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on March 12, 2019, 02:28:13 PM
Who says anything about arrogance? I would expect our team to still be far superior in terms of quality, so with the right set up and attitude, yes, yes, I would fully expect us to beat them. I certainly would not expect us to allow them to come to our home ground and completely outplay us. If anyone thinks that performance was acceptable I am concerned for their football knowledge.
I think you have answered your own question.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: richjonawba on March 12, 2019, 02:37:07 PM
I think you have answered your own question.

How is it arrogance to rightly believe we have a squad of far superior quality to bottom of the league Ipswich? I guarantee 100% of Ipswich fans would agree
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on March 12, 2019, 02:50:47 PM
How is it arrogance to rightly believe we have a squad of far superior quality to bottom of the league Ipswich? I guarantee 100% of Ipswich fans would agree
There's not a huge difference in quality between top and bottom in this league. On any given day, any team can beat any other if the higher team has an off day and the lower team has a good day. All of the top teams have experienced results similar to ours against Ipswich (ie lost or drawn against a team down near the bottom of the table) at some point during the season; it's not just us. Our squad is certainly better but far superior is an overstatement.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on March 12, 2019, 03:12:10 PM
your talking boll*cks mate.
Thanks for your input to the discussion. I am intrigued to know why you think that.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 12, 2019, 03:17:17 PM
Thanks for your input to the discussion. I am intrigued to know why you think that.

to be honest i read the first about theres not a huge difference in quality between in top and bottom of the league and didnt read the rest.

theres not much difference? just 50 points between top and bottom of the league. there is a HUGE gulf in quality. yes a one off game lower teams can get a result and that has been proved but it is certainly not arrogant to have expected us to beat ipswich comfortably on saturday and it should have happened and Ipswich were expecting the same.

people need to stop covering the cracks for Darren Moore and saying how lovely he was and loved WBA to bits and has given a lot of service. yes its all lovely and he will always get a good reception at the albion. but none of that lovely stuff gets a team automatic promotion that should be challenging for it.

end of.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 12, 2019, 03:25:56 PM
to be honest i read the first about theres not a huge difference in quality between in top and bottom of the league and didnt read the rest.

theres not much difference? just 50 points between top and bottom of the league. there is a HUGE gulf in quality. yes a one off game lower teams can get a result and that has been proved but it is certainly not arrogant to have expected us to beat ipswich comfortably on saturday and it should have happened and Ipswich were expecting the same.

people need to stop covering the cracks for Darren Moore and saying how lovely he was and loved WBA to bits and has given a lot of service. yes its all lovely and he will always get a good reception at the albion. but none of that lovely stuff gets a team automatic promotion that should be challenging for it.

end of.

People need to stop buying the BS spouted by the board and accept we lack strength in depth.

Double end of, no returns. ::)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on March 12, 2019, 03:26:15 PM
to be honest i read the first about theres not a huge difference in quality between in top and bottom of the league and didnt read the rest.

theres not much difference? just 50 points between top and bottom of the league. there is a HUGE gulf in quality. yes a one off game lower teams can get a result and that has been proved but it is certainly not arrogant to have expected us to beat ipswich comfortably on saturday and it should have happened and Ipswich were expecting the same.

people need to stop covering the cracks for Darren Moore and saying how lovely he was and loved WBA to bits and has given a lot of service. yes its all lovely and he will always get a good reception at the albion. but none of that lovely stuff gets a team automatic promotion that should be challenging for it.

end of.
When you finish your post with "end of", I assume that you mean that you have proved your point and the discussion is now at an end. Now THAT is arrogant.
Regarding the bit that I have highlighted, I think you will find that until a couple of weeks ago, we WERE challenging for the top 2. Accepted we have had a bad run over the last 3 matches, but that doesn't change the fact that we have been challenging for pretty much the whole season
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 12, 2019, 03:51:07 PM
When you finish your post with "end of", I assume that you mean that you have proved your point and the discussion is now at an end. Now THAT is arrogant.
Regarding the bit that I have highlighted, I think you will find that until a couple of weeks ago, we WERE challenging for the top 2. Accepted we have had a bad run over the last 3 matches, but that doesn't change the fact that we have been challenging for pretty much the whole season

its not arrogant at all.

and exactly that, we were challenging and the difference is now we are not due to poor management, performances and tactical decisions that have severely cost us over the last 3 games. some fans would argue that we should have been more than challenging when considering the quality of the squad, how long have we actually spent in the top 2? very little.

i have said on previous posts that  i have never rated DM but he should be given until the end of the season and if the target is failed then he has to go, simple as that. the club decided to make that decision a lot earlier on the slim chance that someone can come in and reignite us and challenge for the top 2. the quality of performances and continuous poor tactical decisions and in game management, in my opinion we would have dropped out the top 6 under DM, but we will never know now if that would have happened.



Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 12, 2019, 03:55:48 PM
Going back to the Talksport s**t, the worst thing is, that idiot Durhams claims now seem to be getting more awareness.

I am a pretty relaxed bloke but this has really got under my skin, i have never phoned up a radio station before but i am very temped to put him right about about a few things but then i think he doesnt care, if i call up he has done his job and its giving him a recognition he doesnt deserve.

When you read the twitter feed from his comments, about 75% of the comments say the decision was clearly nothing to do with race (out that 75% some say was right, others say was madness) but most comments are from everyday people, fans of other clubs, quite a lot of black people too.

There is 25% who seem to agree the decision was made because of his skin colour, but the worst thing is the more famous black people who are spouting off, the rent a quotes for anything to do with black people and football - Kevin Campbell, Paul Ince, Troy Townsend.

I wonder if Albion phoned up Paul Ince and offered him the job, would he be that disgusted by our club he would turn it down on moral and principles or would he already be in his car travelling down to say yes? i think we know the answer to that.

The fact remains that since January 2014, so the last 5 years we have had 5 permanent managers, out those 5 managers Darren Moore is the 2nd longest service manager with 8 months, the number of sackings shows that we are just s**t at appointing managers, not that we are a racist club.

Talksport and Sky sports have been telling us all our season we have the best squad in the league, if that is the case then you would expect us to win the league, with 10 games to go we are 11 points behind top and 7 behind 2nd so top two, let alone top spot look long gone so in that view Darren Moore failed, if you fail you get the sack. (I know a number of our fans also think we have the best squad, i personally dont and wouldnt of sacked him but thats not the point here)

He makes no sense, he said he isnt accusing Albion of racism but the sacking was a sub concious thing because of Darren Moores skin colour?! and that what have done is disgraceful to black coaches in this country, yet he offers no evidence at all to back it up!

I imagine the club have enough going on with the manager search to take too much notice of Durham, but this wasnt a ignorant comment by a fan, this was a bloke who has a national primetime slot and is being allowed to spout his views and get support because its a one way opinion, he should be removed from his position when he implies and makes accusations as serious as he has.

I would really hope with how much attention Durham has got (which is what he wants) that the club are aware of this and that they have the lawyers ready to take action against him, he usually gets away with saying what he wants but when you make racism accusations without any evidence you need to be held responsible, i am sure a letter through his door informing him that we are beginning legal action against him may stop him in his tracks abit.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: throstle on March 12, 2019, 04:00:29 PM
I don't know what depresses me more. The sacking of Darren Moore or the reaction of those Albion fans welcoming it.   
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on March 12, 2019, 04:01:47 PM
Talksh1te are careful enough to protect themselves with language so as to avoid legal challenges - they're well trained in this I imagine.

Like any 'troll' - just ignore them, they'll eventually go away. We 're a great and proud club for many reasons and don't even have to answer this kind of rubbish in my opinion.......

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on March 12, 2019, 04:03:51 PM
Talkshit want a reaction and every time anyone comments on their pooh they get one. Idiots are best ignored. They have the problem, not us. Just blank their pooh out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albion79 on March 12, 2019, 04:15:03 PM
The issue i have its not john down the pub implying racism, its a national platform.

If they said WBA are idiots for sacking Moore when 4th then fine, if they say Pickford is out of form and shouldnt be picked for England, Arsenal are under achieving, etc, etc then thats fine we all have different opinions.

But i think when you start making racism claims like they are, with nothing to back it up, you should be held accountable because its a serious slur being made to a big audience.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Westie on March 12, 2019, 04:15:47 PM
I don't know what depresses me more. The sacking of Darren Moore or the reaction of those Albion fans welcoming it.

I don’t know about being depressed by the sacking and the reaction but I am disgusted by it. We have an awful owner and a useless board and now, I am sad to say, too many arrogant ‘fans’ who seem to believe that we have a God given right to automatic promotion? WBA was a cash cow for Peace and is now a prestige project gone wrong for an absent Chinese speculator. How anyone can side with Lai and his cohorts against Darren Moore amazes me; disgraceful. I feel ashamed of West Bromwich Albion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on March 12, 2019, 04:22:51 PM
I don’t know about being depressed by the sacking and the reaction but I am disgusted by it. We have an awful owner and a useless board and now, I am sad to say, too many arrogant ‘fans’ who seem to believe that we have a God given right to automatic promotion? WBA was a cash cow for Peace and is now a prestige project gone wrong for an absent Chinese speculator. How anyone can side with Lai and his cohorts against Darren Moore amazes me; disgraceful. I feel ashamed of West Bromwich Albion.

no one has said we have god given right to win automatic promotion. but the expectation is to challenge for the top 2. we have done for majority of the season in a fashion despite not spending hardly any time in the top, with the gap now between top 2 and the mistakes and lack of in game management then DM has to be made responsible. As the season has progressed it has become more noticeable that he isnt quite up to the job.

without being disrespectful or sarcastic, i am genuinley very surprised that we have fans who are "disgusted" by us sacking DM. i think its early and he should have been given until the end of the season but as ive always said, failure to get promoted and he would have been nailed on to get the sack and rightly so.

i just honestly do not understand the thoughts that if we didnt achieve promotion he should still be in the job next season but thats just my view.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SirTonyM on March 12, 2019, 04:27:56 PM
The issue i have its not john down the pub implying racism, its a national platform.

If they said WBA are idiots for sacking Moore when 4th then fine, if they say Pickford is out of form and shouldnt be picked for England, Arsenal are under achieving, etc, etc then thats fine we all have different opinions.

But i think when you start making racism claims like they are, with nothing to back it up, you should be held accountable because its a serious slur being made to a big audience.

A guy on twitter made a great point that Talk Sport only employ middle aged white men to host their shows. Must be unconscious racism...give some black ex footballers / cricketers a chance...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on March 12, 2019, 04:31:01 PM
A guy on twitter made a great point that Talk Sport only employ middle aged white men to host their shows. Must be unconscious racism...give some black ex footballers / cricketers a chance...


What like Ince and Collymore to pedal more absolute pooh?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 12, 2019, 04:33:46 PM
I don’t know about being depressed by the sacking and the reaction but I am disgusted by it. We have an awful owner and a useless board and now, I am sad to say, too many arrogant ‘fans’ who seem to believe that we have a God given right to automatic promotion? WBA was a cash cow for Peace and is now a prestige project gone wrong for an absent Chinese speculator. How anyone can side with Lai and his cohorts against Darren Moore amazes me; disgraceful. I feel ashamed of West Bromwich Albion.
Excellent post mate 100% agree
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on March 12, 2019, 04:45:07 PM
It's all getting a bit petty on here at the moment. I think we need to chill and appreciate that everyone is entitled to an opinion.

The thing that sticks out to me is that we're all shocked by his sacking. I've spent time looking back through some of the post-match threads and there are huge numbers of fans saying Moore is clueless. And none of us could see him being sacked, especially not immediately after a match. After holding onto TP and Pardew for too long, I thought we'd hang on to DM throughout this season and replace him in the summer if we failed to go up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on March 12, 2019, 04:45:23 PM
I think the point made by a previous poster is also an important one. By accusing a club of being racist by sacking a BAME manager (even when there is no racism involved, conscious or subconscious), and it happens most times a BAME manager is sacked, it makes clubs scared to hire BAME managers in the first place as they are worried about the reaction of certain pockets of the media.

This behaviour from the likes of Durham, imo, actually harms the chances of black managers getting jobs in the future.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: phbaggies on March 12, 2019, 04:54:34 PM
It's all getting a bit petty on here at the moment. I think we need to chill and appreciate that everyone is entitled to an opinion.

The thing that sticks out to me is that we're all shocked by his sacking. I've spent time looking back through some of the post-match threads and there are huge numbers of fans saying Moore is clueless. And none of us could see him being sacked, especially not immediately after a match. After holding onto TP and Pardew for too long, I thought we'd hang on to DM throughout this season and replace him in the summer if we failed to go up.
Which in my opinion should have been the way, I still stick by it that if his remit was promotion then he was on target, if it was top 2 they should have backed him in January.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Black Pearl on March 12, 2019, 05:50:42 PM
I don't know what depresses me more. The sacking of Darren Moore or the reaction of those Albion fans welcoming it.

I certainly did not welcome it, its sad, unfortunate, but correct.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on March 12, 2019, 06:10:12 PM
I don’t know about being depressed by the sacking and the reaction but I am disgusted by it. We have an awful owner and a useless board and now, I am sad to say, too many arrogant ‘fans’ who seem to believe that we have a God given right to automatic promotion? WBA was a cash cow for Peace and is now a prestige project gone wrong for an absent Chinese speculator. How anyone can side with Lai and his cohorts against Darren Moore amazes me; disgraceful. I feel ashamed of West Bromwich Albion.
I'm with you 100% but we seem to be in the minority.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KYA on March 12, 2019, 06:26:27 PM
I don’t know about being depressed by the sacking and the reaction but I am disgusted by it. We have an awful owner and a useless board and now, I am sad to say, too many arrogant ‘fans’ who seem to believe that we have a God given right to automatic promotion? WBA was a cash cow for Peace and is now a prestige project gone wrong for an absent Chinese speculator. How anyone can side with Lai and his cohorts against Darren Moore amazes me; disgraceful. I feel ashamed of West Bromwich Albion.
Fully agree apart from the fans I see it more of a national disease where there is a total lack of respect for our fellow man and the act of abusing someone is all too easy with social media being the main vehicle to deliver abuse.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: NathWBA on March 12, 2019, 09:03:17 PM
I think the point made by a previous poster is also an important one. By accusing a club of being racist by sacking a BAME manager (even when there is no racism involved, conscious or subconscious), and it happens most times a BAME manager is sacked, it makes clubs scared to hire BAME managers in the first place as they are worried about the reaction of certain pockets of the media.

This behaviour from the likes of Durham, imo, actually harms the chances of black managers getting jobs in the future.
on this subject it would be interesting to get the clubs views on the comments made by talksport, they are slanderous and are clearly attempting to damage the clubs reputation, it may be something that is raised at the next assembly meeting. I’d be amazed if the club aren’t seeking legal advise over it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on March 12, 2019, 09:11:15 PM
on this subject it would be interesting to get the clubs views on the comments made by talksport, they are slanderous and are clearly attempting to damage the clubs reputation, it may be something that is raised at the next assembly meeting. I’d be amazed if the club aren’t seeking legal advise over it.

I would hope the silence from the club is down to them watching and waiting before acting. Durham needs to be held to account for his comments, too long this clown has been getting away with it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 12, 2019, 09:43:53 PM
I would hope the silence from the club is down to them watching and waiting before acting. Durham needs to be held to account for his comments, too long this clown has been getting away with it.

I hope so. His comments are defamatory.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on March 12, 2019, 10:46:47 PM
I would hope the silence from the club is down to them watching and waiting before acting. Durham needs to be held to account for his comments, too long this clown has been getting away with it.

Somebody should ring the idiot up and ask him his many bame presenters they have on talksport.

I listen to TS a lot and Radio 5 sometimes, and TS gives Darren Lewis 5 minutes here and there whilst radio 5 have the excellent dotun adebayo and his world football show etc. I didn't see them giving sol campbell a job instead of the idiot cundy, but the rest of us are castigated for not giving him a chance.

So before judging others look at yourselves you hypocrites.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on March 12, 2019, 10:59:47 PM
Somebody should ring the idiot up and ask him his many bame presenters they have on talksport.

I listen to TS a lot and Radio 5 sometimes, and TS gives Darren Lewis 5 minutes here and there whilst radio 5 have the excellent dotun adebayo and his world football show etc. I didn't see them giving sol campbell a job instead of the idiot cundy, but the rest of us are castigated for not giving him a chance.

So before judging others look at yourselves you hypocrites.

They have had one BAME presenter as far as I know, Collymore who was not given a new contract, was it due to colour or his mental health issues ?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on March 12, 2019, 11:30:53 PM
Interesting interview with Brunty about life under DM. He said they were told to play out from the back, it was done too much and questioned whether the players understood his tactics.

It's also interesting that in the interview he wasn't lamenting DMs sacking. Brunt said it's sad when anyone loses their job.

For me that sums up what many fans have said. DM may be a nice guy, but being a nice guy doesn't win you matches and just because he's a former player doesn't mean he's able to communicate his ideas well enough.

I genuinely appreciate what DM has done, and I've only ever said that about Roy in recent years. But his lack of experience and inability with regards communication has cost him.

I can't help but feel his appointment would have been a huge success in about 5 years time. Start off in the lower leagues and work up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Nathan on March 12, 2019, 11:47:07 PM
I would hope the silence from the club is down to them watching and waiting before acting. Durham needs to be held to account for his comments, too long this clown has been getting away with it.

These idiots in the media just don't get it do they. For every ridiculous racism accusation that they make on a seemingly more and more regular basis about something totally innocent, all they are actually doing is encouraging more and more people to get wound up and angry about it and actually develop racist thoughts rather than doing anything to discourage any racial discrimination. The vast majority of the population have had enough of being accused of being racist or something else 'ist' all of the bloody time. The likes of Paul Ince, Kevin Campbell, etc are doing themselves no favours at all if they think that trotting out the racism card every 5 minutes is going to achieve them anything. It will have the exact opposite effect. What were we meant to do? Never ever sack the bloke because he is black??
Moore was sacked simply because the results, tactical awareness and performances have steadily been getting worse and worse and for once the club actually acted bravely and promptly to hopefully halt the slide rather than delay matters 'a la Pardew'.
I feared this nonsense would all be inevitably trotted out at some point the minute he was appointed, What a sad, horrible 'liberal' PC world we live in.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on March 13, 2019, 12:21:15 AM
They have had one BAME presenter as far as I know, Collymore who was not given a new contract, was it due to colour or his mental health issues ?

Exactly, and a terrible phone in he had too the vile dogger.

Therefore, people in glass houses should not throw stones.

Last night on the 1 am late night show they were saying, without any foundation, that they were sure DM was paid less too because he was black.

Just total baseline rubbish slagging off a club who pioneered black players whilst the team this idiot presenter supports (man utd) can be heard doing monkey noises in the 3-5 win of ours.

It was bad the commentator (Gerald Sinstadt I think) can be heard publicly castigating them.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on March 14, 2019, 08:27:49 AM
For those who saw the game last night, and disagreed with sacking Darren, based on what you saw, do you now think it was the right decision?

I voted disagree, but from following the game on BBC text web site and Matt Wilson Twitter Account it appeared, tactically, we were sounder and the players more comfortable in the set up. So, I guess it was the right decision even though I base it on just one performance.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: collins101 on March 14, 2019, 08:33:38 AM
Depends how you want to look at it, we could have have been 4-1 down at half time. Any top 6 team would have had a field day in that 1st half, fine margins really.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 14, 2019, 08:36:35 AM
We were awful last night and I have no idea how we won the game, let alone 3-0, but sacking him remains the right decision.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on March 14, 2019, 08:44:00 AM
The score line flatterers us and it could have been different but fortunately we we more clinical so in that respect I don’t think it was vastly different to some of our games under Darren Moore.

We did at least cut some rubbish at the back out so teams should have to be a bit smarter to create chances against us rather than just crowd us.

I didn’t rate DM but he wouldn’t have lost every game and there still much to improve. I’m hoping the new boss gives me more faith it’s moving in the right direction because that’s what I lacked with what I saw from DM
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on March 14, 2019, 08:44:36 AM
We were awful last night and I have no idea how we won the game, let alone 3-0, but sacking him remains the right decision.

we weren't great i'll admit, but we were better than we have been of late.

no more nonsesne of knocking the ball around the defence and back to the keeper (well until Barltey came on), more urgency in closing down the opposition from front 3 (still not great but an improvement), more urgency in getting the ball forward to the strikers which caused swansea a few issues mainly of there own doing and created some half chances.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 14, 2019, 09:05:07 AM
The score line flatterers us and it could have been different but fortunately we we more clinical so in that respect I don’t think it was vastly different to some of our games under Darren Moore.

We did at least cut some rubbish at the back out so teams should have to be a bit smarter to create chances against us rather than just crowd us.

I didn’t rate DM but he wouldn’t have lost every game and there still much to improve. I’m hoping the new boss gives me more faith it’s moving in the right direction because that’s what I lacked with what I saw from DM

If Swansea had their top goal scorer and penalty taker fit and on the pitch last night that result would of been a different story. I said in another thread the lose of our form coincided with the lose of Brunt!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on March 14, 2019, 09:11:00 AM
If Swansea had their top goal scorer and penalty taker fit and on the pitch last night that result would of been a different story. I said in another thread the lose of our form coincided with the lose of Brunt!

Personally, I would have said  Barnes
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: phbaggies on March 14, 2019, 09:45:50 AM
If Swansea had their top goal scorer and penalty taker fit and on the pitch last night that result would of been a different story. I said in another thread the lose of our form coincided with the lose of Brunt!
But they didn't and it wasn't so enjoy the win as it is the first one at home this year! Their top scorer/ penalty taker wouldn't have stopped them conceding 3

You could argue if we had our first choice defenders against Ipswich we would have won, etc, etc.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on March 14, 2019, 10:06:50 AM
But they didn't and it wasn't so enjoy the win as it is the first one at home this year! Their top scorer/ penalty taker wouldn't have stopped them conceding 3

You could argue if we had our first choice defenders against Ipswich we would have won, etc, etc.

Agreed, i will take anything at the moment!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 14, 2019, 10:24:13 AM
I thoroughly enjoyed the game personally. Darren spent 8 home games trying and failing to get the win, super Jimmy Shan nails it in his first game after having a couple of days preparation and keeps a clean sheet to boot, something that Darren has struggled to do all season.

It's a new dawn, chaps.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on March 14, 2019, 10:27:58 AM
Personally, I would have said  Barnes

An interesting avatar AF, do you know something we don't?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on March 14, 2019, 10:38:56 AM
An interesting avatar AF, do you know something we don't?

He is my first choice to replace Darren, I would add I have no second choice at the moment.

But the one thing I do know is "I know that I know nothing" ala Socratic Paradox.  :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 14, 2019, 03:01:39 PM
The decision is correct on the face of things though I'd have hoped a plan was in place; regards last night Swansea are like that every week, they've got all the best passing stats in the league, last week they hammered Norwich and lost narrowly. Saying things like the top 6 would have had a field day simply isn't true, because they aren't as good creatively as Swansea.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Windmill Baggy on March 14, 2019, 03:16:05 PM
The decision is correct on the face of things though I'd have hoped a plan was in place; regards last night Swansea are like that every week, they've got all the best passing stats in the league, last week they hammered Norwich and lost narrowly. Saying things like the top 6 would have had a field day simply isn't true, because they aren't as good creatively as Swansea.

Swansea beat Sheffield Utd a month or so ago, and out-passed them at the time as well.

I believe there is not a great deal between the majority of teams in this division currently and that as the season draws to a close the notion that there are no easy games becomes even more true.

Excellent win yesterday, and it shouldn't be underestimated how crucial it was to quickly bounce back from the recent poor run of results and the sacking of DM.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 14, 2019, 07:13:20 PM
The decision is correct on the face of things though I'd have hoped a plan was in place; regards last night Swansea are like that every week, they've got all the best passing stats in the league, last week they hammered Norwich and lost narrowly. Saying things like the top 6 would have had a field day simply isn't true, because they aren't as good creatively as Swansea.

I think Swansea could be some side next year.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on March 14, 2019, 07:28:02 PM
I think Swansea could be some side next year.
I was thinking that watching them ping it around
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on March 16, 2019, 08:13:15 PM
Always supported Darren Moore even though I never thought he should have been anywhere near the job to start with.
He had to go, and if he was still here would Edwards have started today.
Very brave decision to start with him today, he could also see it was time to give Harper a rest and drop Livermore.
I don't say that Shan is the right man for the job long term but he's the right man for now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on March 16, 2019, 08:16:41 PM
I still find it bizarre that DM used Edwards so much in pre season and he looked the main youth player that was ready to step up this season, then didn’t even give him game time all season.

Today’s preronance for me shows he had something to offer us, the ability to take someone on, that level of no fear about his play. When Barnes left, Kyle should have been getting game time.

If DM was manager, Edwards wouldn’t have even made the bench today.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 17, 2019, 04:06:18 AM
We have 6 from 6, with some good fortune admittedly. If DM was in charge still realistically i would have expected a maximum of 2 points. Shan still has a lot to learn but already showed he is more astute than Moore and Jones. I do not want him as boss. We need an 'outsider'.  Hopefully DM finds a job back in our club but not in charge.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wappingbaggie on March 20, 2019, 01:11:03 AM
We need an 'outsider'.  Hopefully DM finds a job back in our club but not in charge.

well its not going to be as Defensive Coach
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on March 20, 2019, 08:55:01 AM
I still find it bizarre that DM used Edwards so much in pre season and he looked the main youth player that was ready to step up this season, then didn’t even give him game time all season.

Today’s preronance for me shows he had something to offer us, the ability to take someone on, that level of no fear about his play. When Barnes left, Kyle should have been getting game time.

If DM was manager, Edwards wouldn’t have even made the bench today.
He really missed a trick there, and if you ask me with Harper too - not playing him till Xmas then virtually every game till he was knackered, sidelining Field as .  My guess is that he had the right intentions, but every week he sat in his office with Jones and the team sheet and they decided maybe just not yet, put the experienced old guys out this week, maybe next week, repeat scenario each game.  Easy with hindsight I suppose, but that's what I think was going on.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on March 20, 2019, 02:37:50 PM
well its not going to be as Defensive Coach

He needs to learn his trade the old fashioned way i think, from the bottom up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on March 20, 2019, 11:06:28 PM
 Nothing that was likely to happen would have persuaded me that sacking Moore at this time was the right decision. However the aborted manager search does suggest a lack of premeditation.

Either it was very much a knee jerk reaction to our downturn in form or suggestions that a dispute around Jones and his future blew up in Moore's face are not as far fetched as I thought.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 22, 2019, 12:09:13 AM
Nothing that was likely to happen would have persuaded me that sacking Moore at this time was the right decision. However the aborted manager search does suggest a lack of premeditation.

Either it was very much a knee jerk reaction to our downturn in form or suggestions that a dispute around Jones and his future blew up in Moore's face are not as far fetched as I thought.
Jenkins has a lot to answer for in this debacle, always looking for cheap option except when it comes to his wages and yearly bonus.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on March 22, 2019, 06:25:58 AM
Nothing that was likely to happen would have persuaded me that sacking Moore at this time was the right decision. However the aborted manager search does suggest a lack of premeditation.

Either it was very much a knee jerk reaction to our downturn in form or suggestions that a dispute around Jones and his future blew up in Moore's face are not as far fetched as I thought.

Totally agree. That’s what I’m thinking too.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: rajesh-wba on March 31, 2019, 10:59:46 AM
Darren Moore on Goals on Sunday for those who are interested. Starting in next few minutes
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: rajesh-wba on March 31, 2019, 11:14:47 PM
Darren Moore came across really well as expected. Didn’t put his dismissal down to any racial intertwines and merely stated he had accepted it as football reasons. Is willing the club on to get promoted this season. Still thinks automatic is possible. Clearly has Albion at his heart.
Found it humbling when he said he had been away doing charity work in Kenya after his dismissal.
Most interesting thing I found was that he would have slightly tweaked his staff. Kamara nor Shepherd probed him.
I do think Moore will be slightly more pragmatic in his next role and I sincerely hope he returns to Albion in the future.
His role in unifying the club should be respected IMO
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on March 31, 2019, 11:27:38 PM
Still a big fan of Big Dave and I hope he proves himself as first team coach. Top bloke and I wish him well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on April 01, 2019, 08:17:00 AM
Probably not psychotic enough to be a successful manager.  I really hope he can return at some point in a coaching role.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on April 01, 2019, 09:41:41 AM
Big Dave for me is the perfect Ambassador for a club, or a coach in the lower age groups.

He speaks well and is respected by many in the game. The head coach job came too early in my opinion, I doubt even DM expected to be a first team coach at this stage in his career, he had progressed through the academy roles and was placed within the first team, was thrown into the limelight after the mess of Pardew and gave us a bit of hope.

I will always thank DM for the work he has done in helping rebuild this club, we were a shambles (granted we are still a mess now at board level) and he helped stabilise the club when it could have been so easy to 'do a Sunderland.' He had changed our style of play dramatically from the drab we were used to seeing.

Did he place too much faith in his assistant, possibly. Maybe more will come out in the future, who knows. What I do hope for is that DM gets another crack at a managers role again and that he does a great job.

There needs to be more people like DM not just in football, but in every day life, a true gentleman.

Hopefully one day he can return here in some way or another, he is a credit to himself.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on April 01, 2019, 11:35:14 AM
Big Dave for me is the perfect Ambassador for a club, or a coach in the lower age groups.

He speaks well and is respected by many in the game. The head coach job came too early in my opinion, I doubt even DM expected to be a first team coach at this stage in his career, he had progressed through the academy roles and was placed within the first team, was thrown into the limelight after the mess of Pardew and gave us a bit of hope.

I will always thank DM for the work he has done in helping rebuild this club, we were a shambles (granted we are still a mess now at board level) and he helped stabilise the club when it could have been so easy to 'do a Sunderland.' He had changed our style of play dramatically from the drab we were used to seeing.

Did he place too much faith in his assistant, possibly. Maybe more will come out in the future, who knows. What I do hope for is that DM gets another crack at a managers role again and that he does a great job.

There needs to be more people like DM not just in football, but in every day life, a true gentleman.

Hopefully one day he can return here in some way or another, he is a credit to himself.

I don't want to get into a slanging match here,
I am a fan of Darren Moore the ma, and thought he should have been given more time, but a couple of the things you say in his support, I do have issue with

a) You say "he speaks well", he started out with a great message but got mired in repeating things which were patently incorrect and often baffling.
His delivery isn't slick, but personally and hopefully for most others, I don't think thats an issue, its more that the content was poor and highly repetitive.

b) You say "the head coach job came too early"  Darren is 44, he has been coaching since 2010, he may have been held back by WBAFC but at what age are you capable, Lampard / Gerrard / Howe are younger,  Gareth Southgate / Dean Smith / David Wagner all similar age, more remarkably Villas Boas / Chris Coleman / Alex Neil were much younger when they "broke through"

I am being a bit pedantic, but just felt these things needed pointing out.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on April 02, 2019, 07:06:29 AM
I don't want to get into a slanging match here,
I am a fan of Darren Moore the ma, and thought he should have been given more time, but a couple of the things you say in his support, I do have issue with

a) You say "he speaks well", he started out with a great message but got mired in repeating things which were patently incorrect and often baffling.
His delivery isn't slick, but personally and hopefully for most others, I don't think thats an issue, its more that the content was poor and highly repetitive.

b) You say "the head coach job came too early"  Darren is 44, he has been coaching since 2010, he may have been held back by WBAFC but at what age are you capable, Lampard / Gerrard / Howe are younger,  Gareth Southgate / Dean Smith / David Wagner all similar age, more remarkably Villas Boas / Chris Coleman / Alex Neil were much younger when they "broke through"

I am being a bit pedantic, but just felt these things needed pointing out.


Darren has never been a particularly polished performer in front of the camera. There are plenty of coaches that appear a lot more comfortable and confident in the media e.g. Pardew but on balance it is something we shouldn't hold against an otherwise successful coach.

There isn't an ideal career path for ex-players into coaching but instinctively there are 3 steps. 1. Learn to coach through study and experience typically at Youth team level. 2. Step up to a supporting role at first team level. 3. Head Coach position.

Typically each of those steps should take about 2 years to complete. Hence from retirement to 1st Head Coach position is about 4 years. Anything less and the young coach probably does not have the grounding they need.

Obviously most of those you quote were pretty much thrown into the deep end with little or no previous coaching experience but made a sufficient success of their initial appointment to be offered their next appointment and therefore establish themselves as Head Coaches. However there is a huge survivor bias in that list there are probably many whose career path has been similar and whose coaching career has regressed or been abandoned altogether.

While Darren had quite a bit of youth coaching experience he had precious little at 1st team level and as such was a relative novice even at the age of 44 because his playing career lasted to his late 30's. Whereas Coleman's Howe's and Neil's playing careers were over before they were 32. Even had their career paths had followed a similar trajectory to Darren's and they were pitched into Head Coach roles within 18 months of retirement,  they would have been Head Coaches at an age when Darren was still playing.

 


 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on April 02, 2019, 11:12:43 AM

Darren has never been a particularly polished performer in front of the camera. There are plenty of coaches that appear a lot more comfortable and confident in the media e.g. Pardew but on balance it is something we shouldn't hold against an otherwise successful coach.

There isn't an ideal career path for ex-players into coaching but instinctively there are 3 steps. 1. Learn to coach through study and experience typically at Youth team level. 2. Step up to a supporting role at first team level. 3. Head Coach position.

Typically each of those steps should take about 2 years to complete. Hence from retirement to 1st Head Coach position is about 4 years. Anything less and the young coach probably does not have the grounding they need.

Obviously most of those you quote were pretty much thrown into the deep end with little or no previous coaching experience but made a sufficient success of their initial appointment to be offered their next appointment and therefore establish themselves as Head Coaches. However there is a huge survivor bias in that list there are probably many whose career path has been similar and whose coaching career has regressed or been abandoned altogether.

While Darren had quite a bit of youth coaching experience he had precious little at 1st team level and as such was a relative novice even at the age of 44 because his playing career lasted to his late 30's. Whereas Coleman's Howe's and Neil's playing careers were over before they were 32. Even had their career paths had followed a similar trajectory to Darren's and they were pitched into Head Coach roles within 18 months of retirement,  they would have been Head Coaches at an age when Darren was still playing.


Good counterpoint to my musings and a valid point about the different career progressions, however, if Darren applied for a manager / head coach position today, his CV would be thin for a 44 year old and any appointment would be a leap of faith. Where does Darren go next ? I really, really hope that his contacts in the game hold him in good stead and he will earn a good living from the game, I would love to see him back at B71 in the future but how?

Darren is undoubtedly a great bloke and the clubs Senior Management hasn't really done him any favours over the the long term, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on April 02, 2019, 06:22:40 PM
Good counterpoint to my musings and a valid point about the different career progressions, however, if Darren applied for a manager / head coach position today, his CV would be thin for a 44 year old and any appointment would be a leap of faith. Where does Darren go next ? I really, really hope that his contacts in the game hold him in good stead and he will earn a good living from the game, I would love to see him back at B71 in the future but how?

Darren is undoubtedly a great bloke and the clubs Senior Management hasn't really done him any favours over the the long term, in my opinion.
Agree with that , I fear though he'll got to Luton as No.2 to Jones.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on April 02, 2019, 09:32:59 PM
Agree with that , I fear though he'll got to Luton as No.2 to Jones.
Walsall
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on April 02, 2019, 10:36:45 PM
Agree with that , I fear though he'll got to Luton as No.2 to Jones.

Is it a fact that Jones has the Luton job? Reason for asking is a cursory glance at the league 1 table. Will Harford not get the job there?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on April 03, 2019, 07:46:34 AM
Is it a fact that Jones has the Luton job? Reason for asking is a cursory glance at the league 1 table. Will Harford not get the job there?
Hartford has consistently stated that he does not want the job long term
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiebof on April 03, 2019, 08:18:09 AM
Is it a fact that Jones has the Luton job? Reason for asking is a cursory glance at the league 1 table. Will Harford not get the job there?

Some friends down Luton way told me he was going there in the summer, before he got sacked by us; everything seems to be pointing to that being the case.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on April 03, 2019, 08:43:02 AM
Good counterpoint to my musings and a valid point about the different career progressions, however, if Darren applied for a manager / head coach position today, his CV would be thin for a 44 year old and any appointment would be a leap of faith. Where does Darren go next ? I really, really hope that his contacts in the game hold him in good stead and he will earn a good living from the game, I would love to see him back at B71 in the future but how?

Darren is undoubtedly a great bloke and the clubs Senior Management hasn't really done him any favours over the the long term, in my opinion.

agree mate except the last bit. not the senior managements fault DM wasnt up to it, thats his own fault with continuous poor decisions all season which has left with us having to  win every game to try and break into the top 2.

i think he needs to take a league 1 job who are expecting top 8 or something maybe and then progress from there. IMO him taking an assistant job now is surely admitting that he isnt cut out to be a manager? he could surely get a job in league 1.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: darbolina on April 03, 2019, 02:17:08 PM
I actually think DM was onto something at the beginning but that he just got confused by Jones and paid him too much respect. He basically got dragged down with a vision of perfect football which didn't / doesn't exist for a team of players like ours. 

I could see Darren carving out a decent career as a manager albeit maybe at a lower level than the premier league and Championship at least initially if he got back to a more pragmatic approach?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on April 03, 2019, 02:58:19 PM
I actually think DM was onto something at the beginning but that he just got confused by Jones and paid him too much respect. He basically got dragged down with a vision of perfect football which didn't / doesn't exist for a team of players like ours. 

I could see Darren carving out a decent career as a manager albeit maybe at a lower level than the premier league and Championship at least initially if he got back to a more pragmatic approach?

Me too, if you look at our games in the premier league when he came in (granted its different expectations) but he set us up in a way the players knew best, similar to what Shan has done now, back to basics.

We seemed to complicate things a little too much when Jones came in and then that's when it all started becoming stubborn.

I would love to see DM successful as he's a genuinely nice bloke, if people like Warnock, Pardew, McLaren and the likes keep getting jobs, then DM surely deserves another chance somewhere else.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on April 04, 2019, 05:36:15 PM
Apparently Daves on QPR’s shortlist, good luck to him if he gets it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OldburyWBA on April 04, 2019, 06:23:07 PM
Apparently Daves on QPR’s shortlist, good luck to him if he gets it.

Was down South on Monday talking about a possible job as he wants to get back into it asap.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BigFrank20 on April 04, 2019, 06:41:01 PM
https://twitter.com/i/status/1113849964235558912

Darren More visits Inspire Afrika project in Kenya soon after his sacking and has been an ambassador for the charity since 2014
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: smethwick2 on April 05, 2019, 10:18:48 AM
I agree with the posts that Darren will be a great ambassador for the club and its a shame that the promotion to head coach meant that he would inevitably leave the club, would have been good to keep him working with the academy system. For me he will always be an Albion hero and I'm glad that he has left the club before our relationship with him turned sour, he would be welcomed back in the stands I'm sure.  Interesting that Darren had our best win percentage since Ozzy Ardilles, albeit most of that in the championship
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on April 05, 2019, 06:28:25 PM
I understand Darren wanting to get back in asap because in football you very quickly become yesterday's man but I sincerely hope he does take stock on what he has learned over the last 12 months and comes back to the game better for it.

He said in his interview on Goals on Sunday there was very little he would have done differently which is fair enough in public because he can't come across as being riddled with self doubt that is the kiss of death in such a competitive environment.  In private however I think he needs to develop a playing style he is comfortable with and work with that. I think he leant too heavily on Graham Jones for the overall strategic direction.

Fine if he wants a possession based style but he has to coach to it and be comfortable sending out his team to execute it. I will watch his progress with great interest.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 06, 2019, 09:13:16 AM
I understand Darren wanting to get back in asap because in football you very quickly become yesterday's man but I sincerely hope he does take stock on what he has learned over the last 12 months and comes back to the game better for it.

He said in his interview on Goals on Sunday there was very little he would have done differently which is fair enough in public because he can't come across as being riddled with self doubt that is the kiss of death in such a competitive environment.  In private however I think he needs to develop a playing style he is comfortable with and work with that. I think he leant too heavily on Graham Jones for the overall strategic direction.

Fine if he wants a possession based style but he has to coach to it and be comfortable sending out his team to execute it. I will watch his progress with great interest.

So will I. Agreed on all that... love the guy and hope he has found his experience managing us beneficial to his future. To be fair we did a lot better under him than with the last two... three... four... bring back Fred Everiss!!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on April 06, 2019, 06:42:50 PM
Walsall have just sacked Keates, would be great to see Big Dave get the job there so he can learn his craft....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 06, 2019, 06:52:26 PM
Walsall have just sacked Keates, would be great to see Big Dave get the job there so he can learn his craft....

Damn straight. Well said.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on April 06, 2019, 07:13:31 PM
Walsall have just sacked Keates, would be great to see Big Dave get the job there so he can learn his craft....

They would be fortunate to get him. He’d do well there and, as you say, he’d be learning his craft, win, win for both parties
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on April 06, 2019, 07:22:02 PM
Walsall have just sacked Keates, would be great to see Big Dave get the job there so he can learn his craft....
I called this on another thread...brunt as player/captain/assistant
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on April 06, 2019, 07:33:29 PM
I still think it’s a level too high for him, he should be starting in the non league and seeing how he gets on, much like a Tim Flowers.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on April 06, 2019, 07:36:28 PM
I still think it’s a level too high for him, he should be starting in the non league and seeing how he gets on, much like a Tim Flowers.
Nonsense, he would do a great job there without Jones, and would get the backing he didn't get at the Albion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on April 06, 2019, 07:39:08 PM
Nonsense, he would do a great job there without Jones, and would get the backing he didn't get at the Albion.

Yes, because Walsall provide their managers with so much backing...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on April 06, 2019, 07:44:20 PM
I still think it’s a level too high for him, he should be starting in the non league and seeing how he gets on, much like a Tim Flowers.

I believe Darren has had more Head Coaching / Coaching experience at a higher level than Flowers, who I rate by the way
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on April 06, 2019, 07:54:18 PM
Yes, because Walsall provide their managers with so much backing...
I'm on about the fans.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 07, 2019, 07:04:23 PM
If he was without the so called backing of Jones, then perhaps he would have done better.
I feel that Jones had too much input about style of play etc.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 07, 2019, 07:14:29 PM
If he was without the so called backing of Jones, then perhaps he would have done better.
I feel that Jones had too much input about style of play etc.


Youd have to assume so. Nothing in preseason pointed to the pathetic 3 at the back kamikaze football, nothing. Then Jones arrived.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on April 07, 2019, 07:18:53 PM
Interesting that people think that DM could have performed better without GJ's influence, & yet DM was happy to wait for him. ( For some considerable time & including granting GJ permission to take a holiday before he joined us)

IMO GJ was a vital cog in DM's coaching & management team.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionBest on April 07, 2019, 07:36:08 PM
New manager imminent yet ? Thought not ! :(
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on April 07, 2019, 07:44:08 PM
Interesting that people think that DM could have performed better without GJ's influence, & yet DM was happy to wait for him. ( For some considerable time & including granting GJ permission to take a holiday before he joined us)

IMO GJ was a vital cog in DM's coaching & management team.

I agree, fans will look for reasons to mitigate a club legends part in tactics that have been, at the very least, questionable.

But Jones and Darren go back along way in their playing days, room sharing and obtaining their coaching badges together I understand. They became good friends during their playing days at Doncaster, I read somewhere.

They both shared a footballing philosophy and culture and would talk long into the night when playing together about coaching etc.

Above all, they trusted each others judgement implicitly in all matters football. So, it is somewhat a slanted view, IMO, to point the figure at one partner in a joint venture that was to their mutual benefit and that of the clubs, albeit one was recognised as being senior in the management structure. If one had to leave then they would both leave, that was the strength of their relationship IMO.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 07, 2019, 07:49:31 PM
Interesting that people think that DM could have performed better without GJ's influence, & yet DM was happy to wait for him. ( For some considerable time & including granting GJ permission to take a holiday before he joined us)

IMO GJ was a vital cog in DM's coaching & management team.
IMO. Darren was doing quite well (end of Premier season and start of Championship season) then Jones came along and then things went t1ts up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 07, 2019, 08:06:49 PM
I agree, fans will look for reasons to mitigate a club legends part in tactics that have been, at the very least, questionable.

But Jones and Darren go back along way in their playing days, room sharing and obtaining their coaching badges together I understand. They became good friends during their playing days at Doncaster, I read somewhere.

They both shared a footballing philosophy and culture and would talk long into the night when playing together about coaching etc.

Above all, they trusted each others judgement implicitly in all matters football. So, it is somewhat a slanted view, IMO, to point the figure at one partner in a joint venture that was to their mutual benefit and that of the clubs, albeit one was recognised as being senior in the management structure. If one had to leave then they would both leave, that was the strength of their relationship IMO.


The only philosophy they shared at Albion belongs to Roberto Martinez, and I can't imagine Darren has had a great many dealings with him...
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 07, 2019, 08:09:07 PM
IMO. Darren was doing quite well (end of Premier season and start of Championship season) then Jones came along and then things went t1ts up.

That's how I see it too.
Not knocking Jones as such but I think DM got him in more because he doubted himself more than anything.

End of last season and a chunk of the first half of this seem to go towards that.

Mind you Harvey Barnes...........
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on April 07, 2019, 08:11:09 PM

The only philosophy they shared at Albion belongs to Roberto Martinez, and I can't imagine Darren has had a great many dealings with him...

Perhaps you could elaborate on that with substantial facts and not just guess work based on a particular playing style that was utilised on occasions?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on April 07, 2019, 08:13:31 PM
IMO. Darren was doing quite well (end of Premier season and start of Championship season) then Jones came along and then things went t1ts up.

Except........................... DM nominated Jones & was happy to wait for him, including giving him time to take a holiday after the world cup.
IMO, (from comments made by local football correspondents at the time) the person who propped up DM at the end of the EPL season & pre-season was the person who currently has the caretaker position.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 07, 2019, 08:16:54 PM
Except........................... DM nominated Jones & was happy to wait for him, including giving him time to take a holiday after the world cup.
IMO, (from comments made by local football correspondents at the time) the person who propped up DM at the end of the EPL season & pre-season was the person who currently has the caretaker position.
Exactly that... NOT Jones
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on April 07, 2019, 08:49:00 PM
Moore was pragmatic managing in the prem which was fair enough in terms of position and personnel and him wanting to make a good fist of it. I do think though that he realised what the fans thought at the end of the Pulis era and genuinely wanted to provide a more exciting team in the Championship. Barnes was signed pre season before Jones got here. It wasn't the case that Moore + Shan would have kept going with the pragmatism if Jones hadn't come in.  The question is whether we would have kept the 3 at the back as long and the playing out from the back as long.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on April 07, 2019, 09:01:46 PM
Moore was pragmatic managing in the prem which was fair enough in terms of position and personnel and him wanting to make a good fist of it. I do think though that he realised what the fans thought at the end of the Pulis era and genuinely wanted to provide a more exciting team in the Championship. Barnes was signed pre season before Jones got here. It wasn't the case that Moore + Shan would have kept going with the pragmatism if Jones hadn't come in.  The question is whether we would have kept the 3 at the back as long and the playing out from the back as long.

If you're crediting DM with Harvey Barnes, don't forget DM was chasing Maddison from Peterborough.
When Harvey Barnes came, nobody had heard of him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Adder on April 07, 2019, 10:24:51 PM
If you're crediting DM with Harvey Barnes, don't forget DM was chasing Maddison from Peterborough.
When Harvey Barnes came, nobody had heard of him.
Barnes had done well for Barnsley in the Championship the previous season so he was not an unknown plucked from Leicester's backup squad. My point is I'm certain Moore genuinely wanted a more attacking style, that idea didn't arrive with Jones.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on April 08, 2019, 08:17:54 AM
Barnes had done well for Barnsley in the Championship the previous season so he was not an unknown plucked from Leicester's backup squad. My point is I'm certain Moore genuinely wanted a more attacking style, that idea didn't arrive with Jones.

I'm sure you're right that DM wanted a more attacking style, but IMO, GJ was a major player in that.
This forum was going balistic for weeks when we hadn't appointed an assistant to DM over the summer. I'm convinced that GJ was considered, by the club, to be the catalyst to make that work.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wigmore on April 11, 2019, 10:09:43 AM
So, Moore was sacked because he failed to get "the best squad in the Championship" (as many posters repeatedly told us) into the automatic positions. Some told us that so called mediocre managers would have WBA six points clear of everybody.
Would that squad be the same one that posters are now lining up to castigate and dismember on the Next Manager thread....?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on April 11, 2019, 11:17:41 AM
So, Moore was sacked because he failed to get "the best squad in the Championship" (as many posters repeatedly told us) into the automatic positions. Some told us that so called mediocre managers would have WBA six points clear of everybody.
Would that squad be the same one that posters are now lining up to castigate and dismember on the Next Manager thread....?

its not unreasonable to argue a club has a good squad that isn't performing, ie Chelsea under Conte &  Man utd under Mourinhio.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on April 11, 2019, 11:52:40 AM
So, Moore was sacked because he failed to get "the best squad in the Championship" (as many posters repeatedly told us) into the automatic positions. Some told us that so called mediocre managers would have WBA six points clear of everybody.
Would that squad be the same one that posters are now lining up to castigate and dismember on the Next Manager thread....?

Actually we dont know that do we.......?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Wigmore on April 11, 2019, 12:06:36 PM
Actually we dont know that do we.......?
Quite right. But that was what many posters repeatedly claimed. Many posts kept churning out the mantra of the 'best squad' bollox. This was the stick with which that DM was hit.
Are there still posters who would make the same assertion now?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on April 11, 2019, 02:48:13 PM
on ability alone, this squad has to be up there with the likes of Sheff Utd and Norwich, BUT the real question is, do they want it enough ???
I have a theory that some of the more experienced players are trying to eek out as much as they can and recognise that promotion almost certainly guarantees them being moved on, whereas a near miss and yet another new manager may be convinced to let them have another crack at it, ergo another £1-1.5m in the bank.

The loanees will not be that fussed either, which just leaves the kids

call me cynical .........

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ronnie_allen on April 11, 2019, 03:43:47 PM
on ability alone, this squad has to be up there with the likes of Sheff Utd and Norwich, BUT the real question is, do they want it enough ???

Would agree about Sheffield United and Norwich. I think a lot of the time; the discussion was looking at how squad compared to those in and around us; which was generally the top four. I would have had a number of squads I felt were significantly better than us but doing far worse such as Stoke City and Aston Villa (at the time).

Do think we had some massive shortfalls in squad which were increased significantly with departure of Barnes and (as is usual) injury to Phillips. Never really feel we control the game from midfield. Started off with three very good defenders but back-up doesn't seem to be great and did get Holgate in to make it a decent four. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: stoxman on June 15, 2019, 10:56:31 AM
This sums the man up for me.  What a thoroughly nice human being.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11741339/darren-moore-interview-west-brom-favourite-ready-for-new-challenge-after-eye-opening-kenya-trip
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on June 15, 2019, 01:05:49 PM
This sums the man up for me.  What a thoroughly nice human being.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11741339/darren-moore-interview-west-brom-favourite-ready-for-new-challenge-after-eye-opening-kenya-trip
Happy with Bilic  and we move on but still think WBA FC is a worse place without him. Really hope he gets that 2nd chance and smashes it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Chipperfan on June 15, 2019, 01:20:01 PM
This sums the man up for me.  What a thoroughly nice human being.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11741339/darren-moore-interview-west-brom-favourite-ready-for-new-challenge-after-eye-opening-kenya-trip

He’s a great bloke. Wish him nothing but success.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on June 15, 2019, 01:27:09 PM
Nice Bloke, Generally Cares about Albion and everything he does even Charity will always be the manager who nearly pulled off the Greatest of Great Escapes that I could have seen, Had Players who didn't care for him wish him luck and hope someone at the Albion reappoint him in the Youth Academy or Resvere Coach.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on June 15, 2019, 04:45:39 PM
Nice Bloke, Generally Cares about Albion and everything he does even Charity will always be the manager who nearly pulled off the Greatest of Great Escapes that I could have seen, Had Players who didn't care for him wish him luck and hope someone at the Albion reappoint him in the Youth Academy or Resvere Coach.

If he wanted it... but nicely said BaggieBoy.

Regardless of what individuals thought of his management (and I think he deserved more time but happy where we are now in terms of appointment).... anyone who doesn't LOVE Big Dave is a doghead in disguise.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: glosterbaggie on June 15, 2019, 05:37:52 PM
If he wanted it... but nicely said BaggieBoy.

Regardless of what individuals thought of his management (and I think he deserved more time but happy where we are now in terms of appointment).... anyone who doesn't LOVE Big Dave is a doghead in disguise.

Could not agree more Sir!
Wish him every success.Would love him back  coaching.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on June 15, 2019, 05:42:59 PM
Don't think anyones ever not said he was a top bloke tbf just wasn't cut out for management yet. I too hope he finds his way back here once he's got more experience under his belt.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on June 16, 2019, 12:42:38 AM
I hope he does well in future.

I also wish he never does well against us and most certainly never to our detriment.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on June 16, 2019, 12:07:39 PM
Great man and will always have a good reception  at the club but just not cut out for management, or at best league 1/2.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mr multivac on June 16, 2019, 01:51:39 PM
If frank Lampard leaves Derby for Chelsea,Darren may turn up there
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on June 16, 2019, 05:06:27 PM
Lovely bloke chyte manager
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on June 17, 2019, 12:39:52 PM
Love Big Dave who was a great player for us and an inspiration in the dressing room.  However, I am not surprised we sacked him.  I was there at the Ipswich match and the couple before where it was clear that the team had hugely lost momentum.  The passing was dreadful, the confidence low, and we made Ipswich look like Brazil.  At that stage of the season, we did not look like we would make the playoffs, let along go up.  So we parted company with our Manager.  It then came as a surprise that we had no real idea what we were going to do next. 

DM's appointment in the first place was in my view cynical.  He had some development to do before taking up the role, and would have been better as a strong assistant to a new coach, or going out to manage in League one before coming back to us.  However, appointing DM allowed the Board to blame him when it went wrong, and to deflect blame for what I am increasingly seeing as a Board with no clear strategy on how to run the club.  I was always a fan of Peace, where I understood exactly what and why he did things. 

Given he has lost money, why does a Chinese investor maintain s stake in a Backcountry club to which he has no historic connection?  I am not clear personally, and I do not think it will last or end well.  However, I live in hope (though not expectation).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on June 17, 2019, 12:42:44 PM
Lovely bloke chyte manager
Think that's a bit unfair, he did a decent job, just didn't quite have that extra bit of oomph. If I were to put together a list of chyte managers he would be nowhere near the top.
Hope he gets the chance to continue his managerial career and is a huge success.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BoingFlyer on June 17, 2019, 01:09:44 PM


He did the best with the resources he had, we all agree that a massive rebuilding is now needed. He was sacked when we were 4th and we finished 4th, I can't say he did much wrong. All teams have a dip in form and he was sacked unfairly to be a scapegoat for a disastrous winter transfer window.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on June 17, 2019, 02:31:05 PM
Apart from having limited knowledge of tactics or positions and not knowing when to use substitutes to an advantage, he did little wrong.
 A very nice man. He loved the Albion. ::)
Don't expect him o be winning anything soon, or even in my lifetime.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: DurhamBaggie on June 17, 2019, 02:37:36 PM
Unpopular opinion - but Darren came across as incredibly thick. His pre/post match interviews were quite frankly, at times, toe curling.

I would guess this contributed towards his downfall - you can only imagine what some smart backside executives made of him during meetings.

I wish him all the best.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on June 17, 2019, 02:56:50 PM
Think that's a bit unfair, he did a decent job, just didn't quite have that extra bit of oomph. If I were to put together a list of chyte managers he would be nowhere near the top.
Hope he gets the chance to continue his managerial career and is a huge success.

Absolutely, we have had some shocking managers over the years. Even relatively recently remember Brian Little prior to Megson- A tenure that so nearly took us into League One.  That was only nine years ago.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on June 17, 2019, 04:43:23 PM
weve had some terrible managers but saying he wouldn't be near the top of the list does not mean hes a good manager does it ?

the resources he had we should have been higher than 4th its as simple as that really and he was very lucky to get the job in the first place.

a poor manager but lovely man and ex player. i hope he makes a career out of management in the lower leagues because i feel that is his limit as a manager.

anybody who plays Dwight Gayle left wing for months really isnt cut out to be a manager at a high level unfortunately.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on June 17, 2019, 07:45:14 PM
Absolutely, we have had some shocking managers over the years. Even relatively recently remember Brian Little prior to Megson- A tenure that so nearly took us into League One.  That was only nine years ago.
Brian Little was Albion's Manager 1999-2000 so 19-20 years ago mate!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ronnie_allen on June 18, 2019, 10:26:24 AM
Unpopular opinion - but Darren came across as incredibly thick. His pre/post match interviews were quite frankly, at times, toe curling.

Certainly wouldn't be hiring for an in-depth analysis TV show or podcast on the intricacies of the game based on his pre/post match interviews. To be honest I never really pay them much heed. Pre-match; just try to be complimentary about the opposition team and say how great they are whether they are high-flying Norwich or down in the doldrums relegated Ipswich. Post-match; either say we happy with win and move on to next game or just a find way to moan about the referees without explicitly stating it so you can't be fined/suspended.

My own bar-stool interpretation is that he has a strong emotional intelligence and was able to gel the squad together and his football outlook was highly defensively based. That all gelled well after Pardew finally went; when we put several strong back to the walls performance together with a solid foundation and strong team spirit. Jones was bought in to develop our style of play from attacking point of view. Personally I was ok with us trying the new style and making mistakes early in the season but it became evident that we were still playing the style without being able to eradicate the mistakes and didn't grow in confidence with the system. Moore effectively had the final say is accountable as well.
Think he did a decent job with us and overcame his first major challenge to ensure that we were among the contenders rather than having the squad but being in total disarray like Stoke. Having established our position as promotion challengers; in the second-half of the season we didn't kick on enough and were starting to slide back. That slide mixed with Jones stated departure for Luton the following season led to his departure.

Has certain qualities as a manager and some development. Wish him the best for the future and hope he can build up a decent career for himself.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on June 18, 2019, 11:04:04 AM
weve had some terrible managers but saying he wouldn't be near the top of the list does not mean hes a good manager does it ?

the resources he had we should have been higher than 4th its as simple as that really and he was very lucky to get the job in the first place.

a poor manager but lovely man and ex player. i hope he makes a career out of management in the lower leagues because i feel that is his limit as a manager.

anybody who plays Dwight Gayle left wing for months really isnt cut out to be a manager at a high level unfortunately.
4th in the Championship doesn't make him chyte either, which was the original quote.
You could also argue that anyone who can manage a team that scores the most goals in all 4 divisions, must have something about them.
We've had better and we've certainly had worse.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on June 18, 2019, 11:13:16 AM
i think Darren had one failing and that was loyalty to Graham Jones and his coaching ability. Either GJ couldn’t get his ideas across to the players or they were not capable of implementing them.
GJ didn’t show Darren any loyalty either and jumped at the very first opportunity to come along
Sad really
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mr Cynical on June 18, 2019, 01:18:39 PM
I love Darren.  Emotionally, I thought it was outrageous when he was sacked.  Logically, I could see why someone decided they had to act.  What followed was a farce.  Darren Moore performed his role as head coach to a far higher standard than Jenkins performed his role as CEO.

If we look back to the summer last year... once the extensive search for a new manager was complete and we found the outstanding candidate at the training ground...  Moore had to deal with Jenkins holding the purse strings.  No player recruitment dept.  No legal/contractual resource.  No assistant manager.  Missing coaching staff.  Experienced players with loud voices.  Other experienced players manipulating for a move.  Holes in his squad that weren't filled until the last minute.  All this with 6 games worth of experience.  I think he did surprisingly well... except the two players we spent money on (Johnstone and Bartley) were not really that good.

If we go back to the 1st game against Bolton.  We played 4-4-2 and absolutely nothing clicked.  Nobody knew what they were doing.  Then Jones arrived.  I think he implemented the 3 at the back and also passing across the back. Initially it was really successful (I think we were top by the end of September).  But we were worked out and didn't constantly evolve to maintain our performance.

I think Darren did a great job of bringing the squad together and motivating them.  He was poor at implementing a style of play that suited the players, tactics, subs.  He made a grave mis-judgement in his trust in Jones.  But he was never an experienced manager and needed the time to learn. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on June 18, 2019, 04:19:31 PM
I love Darren.  Emotionally, I thought it was outrageous when he was sacked.  Logically, I could see why someone decided they had to act.  What followed was a farce.  Darren Moore performed his role as head coach to a far higher standard than Jenkins performed his role as CEO.

If we look back to the summer last year... once the extensive search for a new manager was complete and we found the outstanding candidate at the training ground...  Moore had to deal with Jenkins holding the purse strings.  No player recruitment dept.  No legal/contractual resource.  No assistant manager.  Missing coaching staff.  Experienced players with loud voices.  Other experienced players manipulating for a move.  Holes in his squad that weren't filled until the last minute.  All this with 6 games worth of experience.  I think he did surprisingly well... except the two players we spent money on (Johnstone and Bartley) were not really that good.

If we go back to the 1st game against Bolton.  We played 4-4-2 and absolutely nothing clicked.  Nobody knew what they were doing.  Then Jones arrived.  I think he implemented the 3 at the back and also passing across the back. Initially it was really successful (I think we were top by the end of September).  But we were worked out and didn't constantly evolve to maintain our performance.

I think Darren did a great job of bringing the squad together and motivating them.  He was poor at implementing a style of play that suited the players, tactics, subs.  He made a grave mis-judgement in his trust in Jones.  But he was never an experienced manager and needed the time to learn.

Agreed, love the bloke, but never thought he was the right man, as I like experience and promotions on a cv.

His sacking was correct imo (although the lack of planning that followed was a disgrace) as the home form was terrible, if he'd just sorted that a little bit then we would have been top 2.

If only HB had stayed he had the skill to turn some of them draws into wins.

I DM does great in whatever he does next and I would love him to come back someday in some capacity, and even manager if he has earnt the chance by getting experience and promotions.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: GREGMT on June 18, 2019, 07:40:30 PM
Darren didn’t stamp his authority on Jones.  I hope Luton sink without trace.

As for WBA in 2018/19 so many games of being outworked by technically weaker teams, better drilled, more motivated, every manager more animated.

Darren was there for 7 months.  when he departed we still had a chance.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: alex1 on June 18, 2019, 07:48:24 PM
It was just bad luck for DM that Barnes was recalled. Otherwise I fancy DM could still have been with us.
You also have to look at it as very useful work experience for DM. It was his first main appointment, so he will be that bit wiser when the next job comes along. 
 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BB74 on June 18, 2019, 07:58:25 PM
I really don’t think Big Dave will pick up another Managers job again.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mifos on June 18, 2019, 08:10:16 PM
I really don’t think Big Dave will pick up another Managers job again.

I really hope he does, I think he's a top bloke, one of the nicest people in football and still a legend to me. I think he needs to build a CV and experience at another club , maybe in a less competetive situation than the championship promotion race.


To all those sticking their noses in from other clubs, outraged at his sacking and wishing the club ill because of it, I presume you'll welcome him with open arms when your manager gets sacked.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on June 23, 2019, 08:37:30 PM
https://www.coachesvoice.com/darren-moore-west-bromwich-albion/ (https://www.coachesvoice.com/darren-moore-west-bromwich-albion/)

Great read this. The football by the Ipswich game was gone but i will never ever knock Darren Moore he's been one of my favourite players and what he did to turn the club around and that feeling when we beat Tottenham will stick with me for a long time.

Coaches Voice is a great website.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 23, 2019, 09:35:32 PM
https://www.coachesvoice.com/darren-moore-west-bromwich-albion/ (https://www.coachesvoice.com/darren-moore-west-bromwich-albion/)

Great read this. The football by the Ipswich game was gone but i will never ever knock Darren Moore he's been one of my favourite players and what he did to turn the club around and that feeling when we beat Tottenham will stick with me for a long time.

Coaches Voice is a great website.


Was about to post this link. Puts to bed that Darren is in any way thick. Also interesting to note he doesn't mention Jones by name at all.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: KN22 on June 23, 2019, 11:11:43 PM

Was about to post this link. Puts to bed that Darren is in any way thick. Also interesting to note he doesn't mention Jones by name at all.

What a fascinating read that is. Does he even refer to Jones? If so I missed it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on June 24, 2019, 06:33:00 AM
What a fascinating read that is. Does he even refer to Jones? If so I missed it.

Not by name " Even my assistant manager didn’t arrive until a few days before the first game of the season" is as close as he gets. 

The antidote about missing a chat with Sir Alex Ferguson gets more prominence. Actually that gets almost as much space as the events of last season in their entirety. Now that might be editing or it might be telling.

He may not have any regrets, at least ones he is willing to admit to in public and he is way too honourable to snipe at former colleagues but waiting to appoint Jones might be one.

I suspect had the club appointed a Director of Football before the Head Coach wiser council might have prevailed, although in those circumstances Darren might not have got the job in the first place. Unfortunately we have to consign that to the alternative universe of what might have been and we will never know for certain.

One thing that I thought was interesting was he thought that Pardew was not going to be sacked even after we were relegated. That might indicate how different things look from inside the football club (any club for that matter) than they do looking in. I would have given Pardew zero chance of surviving relegation as would have any fan or journalist familiar with the club. 

Much of the criticism Darren has recieved on here is unfair and the nice bloke terrible manager comments are wholly unwarranted. I hope he learns from his experience and finds another job in football he is way too good to be lost to the game and I will always welcome him back to the Hawthorns.

 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on June 24, 2019, 09:31:40 AM
Comes across much better in that article than he did on TV at least. When he was in charge the whole thing felt forced and aimless, cliche after cliche spouted especially towards the end although you could tell he knew he was done for himself in the last few weeks of his tenure.

To say he has no regrets seems bonkers and validates the decision to sack him. When things are not working week in, week out you change them. Not become bloody minded and persist to the detriment of the club.

Nice bloke, not a good manager but doesn't mean he can't be one day. Was not ready for this level of job, needs to go to the lower levels and work his way up. Good luck to him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on June 24, 2019, 09:34:07 AM
Comes across much better in that article than he did on TV at least. When he was in charge the whole thing felt forced and aimless, cliche after cliche spouted especially towards the end although you could tell he knew he was done for himself in the last few weeks of his tenure.

To say he has no regrets seems bonkers and validates the decision to sack him. When things are not working week in, week out you change them. Not become bloody minded and persist to the detriment of the club.

Nice bloke, not a good manager but doesn't mean he can't be one day. Was not ready for this level of job, needs to go to the lower levels and work his way up. Good luck to him.

I'd believe what I saw and heard in his interviews over a prepared article that I imagine he was not the only contributor to...

Lovely bloke, but painfully out of his depth.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on June 24, 2019, 10:11:41 AM
I'd believe what I saw and heard in his interviews over a prepared article that I imagine he was not the only contributor to...

Lovely bloke, but painfully out of his depth.

True but i always allow some artistic licence whoever it is in print. I don't think any article is ever precisely word for word if you compared it to the original voice recording.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiejohn on June 24, 2019, 11:20:19 AM
Not by name " Even my assistant manager didn’t arrive until a few days before the first game of the season" is as close as he gets. 

The antidote about missing a chat with Sir Alex Ferguson gets more prominence. Actually that gets almost as much space as the events of last season in their entirety. Now that might be editing or it might be telling.

He may not have any regrets, at least ones he is willing to admit to in public and he is way too honourable to snipe at former colleagues but waiting to appoint Jones might be one.

I suspect had the club appointed a Director of Football before the Head Coach wiser council might have prevailed, although in those circumstances Darren might not have got the job in the first place. Unfortunately we have to consign that to the alternative universe of what might have been and we will never know for certain.


One thing that I thought was interesting was he thought that Pardew was not going to be sacked even after we were relegated. That might indicate how different things look from inside the football club (any club for that matter) than they do looking in. I would have given Pardew zero chance of surviving relegation as would have any fan or journalist familiar with the club. 

Much of the criticism Darren has recieved on here is unfair and the nice bloke terrible manager comments are wholly unwarranted. I hope he learns from his experience and finds another job in football he is way too good to be lost to the game and I will always welcome him back to the Hawthorns.

Agree with all of the observations in bold, & I believe, that demonstrates why he wasn't the success that we hoped he would be.

Almost all good Managers have equal focus on people & task, it seems to me that DM tended to have a leaning towards the people at the expense of the task.

As you say Stan, you would have thought "wiser council" would have prevailed. (Jenkins could have advised him even without a DoF).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Foster#1 on June 24, 2019, 12:39:37 PM

Was about to post this link. Puts to bed that Darren is in any way thick. Also interesting to note he doesn't mention Jones by name at all.

The fans who called him thick are the thick ones.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on June 24, 2019, 12:47:20 PM
Gave the club back it's heart, gave the fans some pride, and even in perceived failure has provided a solid base from which to appoint a manager with the prestige of Bilic. 

The period in which Barnes hit his best form and linked with Gayle (and Hegazi started doing Cruyff turns in his own box) was some of the most entertaining football i have seen at the Albion. That might sound like hyperbole but i missed the Albion team who so enthralled with Cyrille and Laurie etc and was bought up on some pretty shoddy fare which was only alleviated by SGM.  The capped wonders diabolical brand of football almost killed the Albion fan in me and it took Darren Moore to apply the resuscitation by at least attempting to do things the right way, so for that i will always be grateful.   

The only real pity for me, and this was always my concern when he got the job, is that it is unlikely he will return to the Hawthorns again in a professional capacity unless coaching/managing the opposition.  There aren't many like him in football, and for what he may have lacked in the detail as a manger, he bought the other good stuff in buckets.

I wish him all the success.


Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kris_boing on June 24, 2019, 12:56:18 PM
I'd believe what I saw and heard in his interviews over a prepared article that I imagine he was not the only contributor to...

Lovely bloke, but painfully out of his depth.

Have to agree with that.  When I was reading article it didn't seem like it was written by him at all.  Heavily edited perhaps?

Loved him as a player and will always have fond memories of him but I'm not sure top level management is for him.  Would have loved for him to stay with our set up.   I don't blame him for having a go at the top job but he shouldn't have been offered it in the first place.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on June 24, 2019, 02:59:26 PM
The fans who called him thick are the thick ones.

...insightful.

Anyone who believes that Darren has sat down on his own and typed that without it being edited by another person is frankly deluded.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Oldbury24 on June 24, 2019, 04:31:23 PM
...insightful.

Anyone who believes that Darren has sat down on his own and typed that without it being edited by another person is frankly deluded.

Of course it's been edited, he's not judged on his ability to write good prose and the English GCSE probably doesn't feature heavily on his CV.  Intelligence comes in many forms and in the piece he comes across as thoughtful and well-balanced.

A lot of the negative reaction came from post match, however, I have heard manager after manager spout cliche so did not really judge him on those interviews, flawed as they may have been.  They followed a standard football manager template of saying nothing but keeping the journo's in copy however mundane.  What i don't remember though is hearing any utter bull spouted by him, and i'll take that. 

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on June 24, 2019, 04:47:46 PM
I dunno about not spouting bull. When questioned as to why he was insisting they play it out from the back even though the players weren't capable and this error of his was costing us numerous goals and points he said he wanted to continue on and it would be worth the pain! Nice one DM.

He was as one dimensional as Pulis and reeled out the same awful soundbites after every game. Only difference why DM got such a free ride is our fanbase like DM and couldn't care less for Pulis.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on June 26, 2019, 08:40:51 AM
Lincoln City boss Danny Cowley and former West Brom manager Darren Moore are favourites to take charge of Derby County if Frank Lampard leaves for Chelsea.

Good luck Darren, he’s 7/1 to be the next Derby Country Manager

Source: https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-county-next-manager-odds-3017452
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on July 10, 2019, 06:11:57 PM
New manager at Doncaster rovers. Good place for him to really start his management career. We were too.much too soon for him. Good luck
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wbastrollers on July 10, 2019, 06:20:28 PM
I sincerely hope he does well - I will keep an eye on his progress.
COME ON DONNY!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on July 10, 2019, 06:23:18 PM
Hope he does well,I'll look for their results with interest
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on July 10, 2019, 06:37:52 PM
Good luck Darren, you deserve it
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on July 10, 2019, 06:50:10 PM
Nice bloke but never be a football manager.

Anyone who takes off a centre forward for a centre half in a cup tie, and then uses all his subs before extra time has no business in football. Never seen anything as daft in all my years.
It's only because he played for Albion that people feel the need to make excuses or him.

It's due to the board appointing a pure novice that we  are where we are now. A bloody clown could see what was going to happen. Surprised he lasted until March, Barnes got him out of jail a few times particularly at hillsborough when he took the two strikers off again when we were 2-0 down.
I get so so angry when people keep mentioning him. He was like Don Howe, iconic player for us but a terrible manager. But Don Howe had got a footballing brain and knowledge of the game, his mistake was trying to turn a free flowing attacking side into a defensive one.

Darren Moore? Might as well have given the job to a Moth.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: CL3MO on July 10, 2019, 06:53:56 PM
Seems a nice fit for him - really hope it all works out and will follow their results curiously.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: HamsteadHarry on July 10, 2019, 06:54:23 PM
Best of luck Darren
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on July 10, 2019, 07:19:36 PM
Good Luck DM :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: jonny on July 10, 2019, 07:19:41 PM
Hope he does well, but another club he played at - did that influence their decision when appointing him?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on July 10, 2019, 07:28:19 PM
To be a good manager you have to come over well to both the public and the players. You have to have personality. Ron Atkinson had it in abundance, though i didn't like the bloke. Clough had it, Shankly had it. It rubs off on the team, it's infectious.
When Darren gave interviews i found it very embarrassing on his behalf, you could see him struggling to put a sentence together and kept falling back on old cliches. This isn't the sort of man to motivate a team.
He had not touchline presence or passion either. We may as well have put a goldfish in a bowl on the touchline.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: kanu on July 10, 2019, 07:29:54 PM
Nice bloke but never be a football manager.

Anyone who takes off a centre forward for a centre half in a cup tie, and then uses all his subs before extra time has no business in football. Never seen anything as daft in all my years.
It's only because he played for Albion that people feel the need to make excuses or him.

It's due to the board appointing a pure novice that we  are where we are now. A blood clown could see what was going to happen. Surprised he lasted until March, Barnes got him out of jail a few times particularly at hillsborough when he took the two strikers off again when we were 2-0 down.
I get so so angry when people keep mentioning him. He was like Don Howe, iconic

player for us but a terrible manager. But Don Howe had got a footballing brain and knowledge of the game, his mistake was trying to turn a free flowing attacking side into a defensive one.

Darren Moore? Might as well have given the job to a Moth.
Far too harsh, very rude and disrespectful in fact. Whatever his shortcomings he doesn’t deserve comments like that. He was a great player for us and when he became manager he restored pride and was about 3 or 4 points short of pulling off the greatest of great escapes. He may have been a bit out of his depth last year but he kept us in the play off positions and we witnessed attacking, exciting football. It’s the board who threw him in at the deep end as a cheap answer to our managerial dilemma and he did his best and left with his head held high.
Just out of interest, if you bumped into him out and about  would you say that to his face?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 10, 2019, 07:30:18 PM
To be a good manager you have to come over well to both the public and the players. You have to have personality. Ron Atkinson had it in abundance, though i didn't like the bloke. Clough had it, Shankly had it. It rubs off on the team, it's infectious.
When Darren gave interviews i found it very embarrassing on his behalf, you could see him struggling to put a sentence together and kept falling back on old cliches. This isn't the sort of man to motivate a team.
He had not touchline presence or passion either. We may as well have put a goldfish in a bowl on the touchline.


Yeah that downward spiral we were in just arrested itself the season before last.


Give over DW.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on July 10, 2019, 08:20:11 PM
I wonder if we will see Donny playing it out from the back every single time?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on July 10, 2019, 08:23:19 PM
Great news, hope he tears it up. Will look for their results with interest.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on July 10, 2019, 08:44:55 PM
Good luck Darren, the level and size club he should of started at in all honesty.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on July 10, 2019, 08:56:57 PM
I’m pleased for Darren and the Albion fans who gave him their full backing regardless.

The very best of luck Darren Moore, Albion legend
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on July 10, 2019, 09:04:50 PM
I really hope he does well - football is full of idiots and he is not one of them.

However, the realist in me thinks he will fail quickly. With us he had one of the best sides/budgets in the league and in my opinion, underachieved.
Having said that, perhaps without Graeme Jones behind the scenes maybe he will do better.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggiemart on July 10, 2019, 09:23:21 PM
I really hope he does well - football is full of idiots and he is not one of them.

However, the realist in me thinks he will fail quickly. With us he had one of the best sides/budgets in the league and in my opinion, underachieved.
Having said that, perhaps without Graeme Jones behind the scenes maybe he will do better.

For me it was Graeme Jones who was the downfall for Darren Moore. I suppose he should have been stronger and stuck to his own principles.

I still think if Cyrille had still been alive , Darren Moore would have had him as his assistant.  that would have worked.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: don1thedon on July 10, 2019, 11:13:07 PM
Good luck Darren really hope you are successful, fully deserved!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: The Black Pearl on July 10, 2019, 11:17:35 PM
It was Darren's passing out from the back that cost us promotion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on July 10, 2019, 11:24:13 PM
Nice bloke but never be a football manager.

Anyone who takes off a centre forward for a centre half in a cup tie, and then uses all his subs before extra time has no business in football. Never seen anything as daft in all my years.
It's only because he played for Albion that people feel the need to make excuses or him.

It's due to the board appointing a pure novice that we  are where we are now. A bloody clown could see what was going to happen. Surprised he lasted until March, Barnes got him out of jail a few times particularly at hillsborough when he took the two strikers off again when we were 2-0 down.
I get so so angry when people keep mentioning him. He was like Don Howe, iconic player for us but a terrible manager. But Don Howe had got a footballing brain and knowledge of the game, his mistake was trying to turn a free flowing attacking side into a defensive one.

Darren Moore? Might as well have given the job to a Moth.


He was a new manager, in the job for less than a year.

Good luck DM, I hope you do great.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 10, 2019, 11:26:59 PM
It was Darren's passing out from the back that cost us promotion.


Jones'..  correction.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on July 10, 2019, 11:33:43 PM
Good luck Darren really hope you are successful, fully deserved!
He seems an alright bloke, but why is it “fully deserved”?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 10, 2019, 11:42:12 PM
He seems an alright bloke, but why is it “fully deserved”?


 Well his win rate including 6 PL matches for a start.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on July 11, 2019, 01:23:52 AM
Football is a brutal game, and i am brutally honest. I loved Darren as a player, but as a manager he was totally inept and should never accepted such a big responsibility as taking on the Albion with no previous experience.
For all is ineptitude he now has another job while we are suffering because of his tenancy.
Some people seem to think more of players and manager more than the club they should be supporting.
I am Albion through and through and to me they come before any average player or inept manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 11, 2019, 01:30:18 AM
Football is a brutal game, and i am brutally honest. I loved Darren as a player, but as a manager he was totally inept and should never accepted such a big responsibility as taking on the Albion with no previous experience.
For all is ineptitude he now has another job while we are suffering because of his tenancy.
Some people seem to think more of players and manager more than the club they should be supporting.
I am Albion through and through and to me they come before any average player or inept manager.


It's just not true Des everyone is entitled to their opinion but what Moore did at the end of 17/18 was an incredible achievement. His PL record is up there with the greats considering the opposition. Last season he bought into Jones bull and it cost him. I imagine he'll be a great success with Donny!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wappingbaggie on July 11, 2019, 04:03:58 AM
its true he was out of his depth in the role in the Championship -  but we have definitely had worse managers than him.

i also think you have to give him some credit for us entering the Championship with morale and self-belief intact after he led that end of Prem season defiance - the fact that we went out with a bang not a whimper meant we didnt plummet like stoke

I'm slightly surprised he has been given another chance so soon....but DR now my second favourite team
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: telford baggie on July 11, 2019, 05:32:15 AM
So easy for everyone to keep blaming jones.. Maybe he let him have so much say because he didnt have a clue himself.. If he wins first game most will bewanying him back. Clueless
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: koren on July 11, 2019, 07:20:21 AM
This time without Graeme Jones, Darren can apply his own tactics and idea to the team.
Hope he does well.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 11, 2019, 08:30:50 AM
Manager lets his assistant dictate terms and is absolved from blame as a result of it?  :-X Few straws being seriously clutched at here.

Be interesting to see how he gets on, it is about the level he should have started at, maybe even still a division too high.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on July 11, 2019, 08:52:26 AM
Manager lets his assistant dictate terms and is absolved from blame as a result of it?  :-X Few straws being seriously clutched at here.

Be interesting to see how he gets on, it is about the level he should have started at, maybe even still a division too high.

exactly this !

Moore should of started at a league 2 club and gained experience rather than going to a premier league side and having huge pressure to deliver a promotion challenge when he had never managed before and completely out of his depth at championship.

Doncaster is still a big job for him as they are looking at a promotion challenge after losing in the play offs last year. Hes an Albion legend but remember thats as a player, not a manager.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on July 11, 2019, 09:01:34 AM
Football is a brutal game, and i am brutally honest. I loved Darren as a player, but as a manager he was totally inept and should never accepted such a big responsibility as taking on the Albion with no previous experience.
For all is ineptitude he now has another job while we are suffering because of his tenancy.
Some people seem to think more of players and manager more than the club they should be supporting.
I am Albion through and through and to me they come before any average player or inept manager.

I would suggest that wishing an ex-player and manager, who has always treated our club with nothing but respect and integrity, all the best in his new role, rather than showering him with disrespectful abuse, does not make someone less of a fan. Quite the opposite in fact.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 11, 2019, 09:02:52 AM
So easy for everyone to keep blaming jones.. Maybe he let him have so much say because he didnt have a clue himself.. If he wins first game most will bewanying him back. Clueless

I doubt anyone will want him back if he wins his first game with Doncaster Rovers, certainly not "most" anyway.

I hope he does well.

It will be interesting to see his tactics now that he doesn't have Jones as assistant. I do think he relied on Graeme Jones too much and that was a problem.

Like a few others have implied he needs to get to grips managing at a lower level to learn his craft.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on July 11, 2019, 09:17:05 AM
Manager lets his assistant dictate terms and is absolved from blame as a result of it?  :-X Few straws being seriously clutched at here.

Be interesting to see how he gets on, it is about the level he should have started at, maybe even still a division too high.

How about "manager supports his top coaches philosiphies / tactics and loses job as a result" I think you are spinning this totally inaccurately.

I'm a middle level manager, if my board came along and said "
Albionic, we like what you have been doing we want to promote you and give you a big rise and status, new title is director of xxxxx, should i try and make a success of the opportunity or say 'nah, don't think i can cope with that, sorry" ??
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 11, 2019, 09:19:02 AM
How about "manager supports his top coaches philosiphies / tactics and loses job as a result" I think you are spinning this totally inaccurately.

I'm a middle level manager, if my board came along and said "
Albionic, we like what you have been doing we want to promote you and give you a big rise and status, new title is director of xxxxx, should i try and make a success of the opportunity or say 'nah, don't think i can cope with that, sorry" ??

I'm really not spinning it in any way other than, he was the head coach, he chose his backroom team, he is ultimately culpable for the results based on the structure that he put into place, he failed miserably and we are now seeing the effects of that as our squad, our academy and our backroom team are being decimated.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on July 11, 2019, 10:18:00 AM
I'm really not spinning it in any way other than, he was the head coach, he chose his backroom team, he is ultimately culpable for the results based on the structure that he put into place, he failed miserably and we are now seeing the effects of that as our squad, our academy and our backroom team are being decimated.
He failed, but not "miserably", he couldn't be flexible when he needed to be and he wants to be a manager he'll have to learn that.  Everyone goes on about how we should have gone up as if we had a god-given right, the best squad and all that, well we weren't that good really.  HRK backup striker?  Ageing Brunt/ Barry/Livermore/Phillips?  Lucky to get Barnes, unlucky to lose him.

He should never have been put up for failure like that, it was predicted by many including me, and it's done nobody any good.  I hope he does a solid three year shift there and does well. 

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on July 11, 2019, 10:28:42 AM

It's just not true Des everyone is entitled to their opinion but what Moore did at the end of 17/18 was an incredible achievement. His PL record is up there with the greats considering the opposition. Last season he bought into Jones bull and it cost him. I imagine he'll be a great success with Donny!

It was yes, but i don't think it was all down to Darren, we had a talented squad of players who didn't want to play for Pulis and Pardew, and they reacted like men let out of prison.
We saw the same reaction at Manchester United after Mourinho was sacked. They won their next six on the bounce. United foolishly like us then gave the job to Solksjaer and their form fell away. He won't survive next season, but he had managed clubs before and  had a much better knowledge than Darren. But the job will prove to big for him, and the same with Lampard at Chelsea.

It's the board i am really angry with for appointing Darren in the first place, this is a decision that may prove to have finished us as a top flight club. Those are the bare unpalatable facts. I may never see Albion in the top flight ever again, and all because Darren was a nice bloke and cheap.
We needed a manager of Bilic's ability last season while the players were still there. I personally wanted Dean Smith, a proper football manager, but our tight board won't pay compensation to another club.
Had we  chosen the right manager we would be back in the prem now instead of Vile.

It galls me that after being in the prem for eight seasons, and being bought out by a billionaire the club still acts like a league 1 outfit.
I am gutted that we now have no money, no players, a failing Academy, (for the benefit of us at least) while our two neighbours swagger about.

I am sorry but i have no enthusiasm for wishing Darren Moore all the best for the future, anymore than i would wish any other manager at any other club.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on July 11, 2019, 11:23:27 AM
It was yes, but i don't think it was all down to Darren, we had a talented squad of players who didn't want to play for Pulis and Pardew, and they reacted like men let out of prison.
We saw the same reaction at Manchester United after Mourinho was sacked. They won their next six on the bounce. United foolishly like us then gave the job to Solksjaer and their form fell away. He won't survive next season, but he had managed clubs before and  had a much better knowledge than Darren. But the job will prove to big for him, and the same with Lampard at Chelsea.

It's the board i am really angry with for appointing Darren in the first place, this is a decision that may prove to have finished us as a top flight club. Those are the bare unpalatable facts. I may never see Albion in the top flight ever again, and all because Darren was a nice bloke and cheap.
We needed a manager of Bilic's ability last season while the players were still there. I personally wanted Dean Smith, a proper football manager, but our tight board won't pay compensation to another club.
Had we  chosen the right manager we would be back in the prem now instead of Vile.

It galls me that after being in the prem for eight seasons, and being bought out by a billionaire the club still acts like a league 1 outfit.
I am gutted that we now have no money, no players, a failing Academy, (for the benefit of us at least) while our two neighbours swagger about.

I am sorry but i have no enthusiasm for wishing Darren Moore all the best for the future, anymore than i would wish any other manager at any other club.
I wish Darren Moore all the luck in the world and I hope he is a big success. That said it's because of Darren Moore the man not the football manager. I will never forget what he did for my family and me when i asked him to do something and that was about 10 years ago. Thanks Darren and all the best.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ronnie_allen on July 11, 2019, 02:33:01 PM
It was yes, but i don't think it was all down to Darren, we had a talented squad of players who didn't want to play for Pulis and Pardew, and they reacted like men let out of prison.
We saw the same reaction at Manchester United after Mourinho was sacked. They won their next six on the bounce. United foolishly like us then gave the job to Solksjaer and their form fell away. He won't survive next season, but he had managed clubs before and  had a much better knowledge than Darren. But the job will prove to big for him, and the same with Lampard at Chelsea.

It's the board i am really angry with for appointing Darren in the first place, this is a decision that may prove to have finished us as a top flight club. Those are the bare unpalatable facts. I may never see Albion in the top flight ever again, and all because Darren was a nice bloke and cheap.
We needed a manager of Bilic's ability last season while the players were still there. I personally wanted Dean Smith, a proper football manager, but our tight board won't pay compensation to another club.
Had we  chosen the right manager we would be back in the prem now instead of Vile.

It galls me that after being in the prem for eight seasons, and being bought out by a billionaire the club still acts like a league 1 outfit.
I am gutted that we now have no money, no players, a failing Academy, (for the benefit of us at least) while our two neighbours swagger about.

I am sorry but i have no enthusiasm for wishing Darren Moore all the best for the future, anymore than i would wish any other manager at any other club.


I would be leaning towards the other side of the fence on this matter. I did feel you were making good arguments on your side but the statement that the following three items are facts rather than opinion is clearly untrue.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: skyclad99 on July 11, 2019, 03:02:06 PM
It was yes, but i don't think it was all down to Darren, we had a talented squad of players who didn't want to play for Pulis and Pardew, and they reacted like men let out of prison.
We saw the same reaction at Manchester United after Mourinho was sacked. They won their next six on the bounce. United foolishly like us then gave the job to Solksjaer and their form fell away. He won't survive next season, but he had managed clubs before and  had a much better knowledge than Darren. But the job will prove to big for him, and the same with Lampard at Chelsea.

It's the board i am really angry with for appointing Darren in the first place, this is a decision that may prove to have finished us as a top flight club. Those are the bare unpalatable facts. I may never see Albion in the top flight ever again, and all because Darren was a nice bloke and cheap.
We needed a manager of Bilic's ability last season while the players were still there. I personally wanted Dean Smith, a proper football manager, but our tight board won't pay compensation to another club.
Had we  chosen the right manager we would be back in the prem now instead of Vile.

It galls me that after being in the prem for eight seasons, and being bought out by a billionaire the club still acts like a league 1 outfit.
I am gutted that we now have no money, no players, a failing Academy, (for the benefit of us at least) while our two neighbours swagger about.

I am sorry but i have no enthusiasm for wishing Darren Moore all the best for the future, anymore than i would wish any other manager at any other club.

Just to play devils advocate;

What do you think would have happened if we had not have appointed Darren after his six games in the premiership? One scenario would have been that we gave it to a 'name' and, despite his best efforts we did not get promoted, everyone on this forum now would be saying 'should have given it to Darren, I blame the board'.......

Sometimes you just cannot win, and hindsight is a wonderful thing. It was a popular decision at the time.....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on July 11, 2019, 03:19:04 PM
Just to play devils advocate;

What do you think would have happened if we had not have appointed Darren after his six games in the premiership? One scenario would have been that we gave it to a 'name' and, despite his best efforts we did not get promoted, everyone on this forum now would be saying 'should have given it to Darren, I blame the board'.......

Sometimes you just cannot win, and hindsight is a wonderful thing. It was a popular decision at the time.....

It's all conjecture isn't it, we will never really know. But i think we would have done much better with the players at our disposal had we appointed the like of Dean Smith. I think you wanted Smith as well if i remember rightly.
Darren was a popular choice to some purely because of his Albion history and because he is such a nice guy.
I never wanted him and when it was announced we had appointed him i posted "I feel sick," on here and it was removed.
I could see a club icons name being remembered for all the wrong reasons. I think he was used by both the club and the players to suit their own needs. Don't forget the players nominated him, and then scarmbled for the door, notably Jonny Evans, Foster ( another toe rag) and Rondon. Three players who would have helped us get up had they put their backing behind Darren. These players saddled the club with someone who was way way out of his depth. People say he was learning, but if we were ever serious about last season being imperative to go straight back up, then appointing a learner makes no sense at all. Even less sense when they appoint someone with more experience than himself, and then sack both of them with no replacement.

I think i have been unkind to Darren with my previous comments but it's just pure frustration at the people who run our club.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TiptonThrostle on July 11, 2019, 03:26:18 PM
It's all conjecture isn't it, we will never really know. But i think we would have done much better with the players at our disposal had we appointed the like of Dean Smith. I think you wanted Smith as well if i remember rightly.
Darren was a popular choice to some purely because of his Albion history and because he is such a nice guy.
I never wanted him and when it was announced we had appointed him i posted "I feel sick," on here and it was removed.
I could see a club icons name being remembered for all the wrong reasons. I think he was used by both the club and the players to suit their own needs. Don't forget the players nominated him, and then scarmbled for the door, notably Jonny Evans, Foster ( another toe rag) and Rondon. Three players who would have helped us get up had they put their backing behind Darren. These players saddled the club with someone who was way way out of his depth. People say he was learning, but if we were ever serious about last season being imperative to go straight back up, then appointing a learner makes no sense at all. Even less sense when they appoint someone with more experience than himself, and then sack both of them with no replacement.

I think i have been unkind to Darren with my previous comments but it's just pure frustration at the people who run our club.

ive got to be honest, i dont ever remember many fans screaming for Moore to get the job at any point.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 11, 2019, 03:44:53 PM
I wonder if we will see Donny playing it out from the back every single time?

They are already do.

He’s not going in and rebuilding a football club as he had to here

There are foundations in place

Good luck to the bloke. I hope he does well
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mister AT on July 11, 2019, 03:47:39 PM
Without looking (so excuse me if its common knowledge) but it will be interesting to see who he chooses as past of his backroom staff.

I wish the bloke well, he will probably do well enough to get around the play offs, he has something about him which makes players want to do well for him.

If he is able to go back to his mindsight when he first became caretaker manager, as opposed to how we tried to play with Jones, then he should do well enough.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on July 11, 2019, 04:28:00 PM
Jimmy Shan to Donny as asst?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: FallOutBoy on July 11, 2019, 04:45:45 PM
I wish the bloke every success. I really do.

I just think it speaks volumes that after leaving us in 4th in the Championship, he's had to drop down a level for his next job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: NJS on July 11, 2019, 06:13:27 PM
Interesting that people blame Big Dave's managerial shortcomings on Graeme Jones as if they were in the team talks and dugout.  How Jones gets on at Luton should settle it.  But if he was giving duff advice to DM, DM didn't need to take it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: 17GD on July 11, 2019, 06:27:48 PM
I wish the bloke every success. I really do.

I just think it speaks volumes that after leaving us in 4th in the Championship, he's had to drop down a level for his next job.

Can kind of see where you're coming from, but look at the players he had to work with last season. We had freescoring strikers and some other PL players. Would he have got to 4th with another team? I'm not sure he would. My main issue with him was not learning from his mistakes quick enough.

I genuinely wish him all the best though. Is a great bloke and will always be a hero here.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: sing on our own on July 11, 2019, 07:19:01 PM
I wish the bloke every success. I really do.

I just think it speaks volumes that after leaving us in 4th in the Championship, he's had to drop down a level for his next job.
could say the same about Bilic I suppose 🤔
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie38 on July 11, 2019, 07:22:45 PM
Look we all love big Dave as a person he is a gentle giant and gives his time for everyone but the fact is he shouldn't of been handed the job. That winning run towards the end of the premier League season was the worst thing that could of happened as it gave the board a easy decision to make. We should of gone for someone such as Dean Smith who has worked wonders with shoe string budgets. Sacking Darren was the right decision it was failing to replace him with a strong experienced replacement which was the mistake.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: beechyboy90 on July 11, 2019, 07:50:18 PM
hope he gets given a bit more time, plenty of positives to Darren moore as a manager he needed a smaller job to find his feet.
very good opportunity for us to get the likes of leko and possibly o'shea or Fitzwater a loan deal and some game time
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on July 11, 2019, 09:14:43 PM

 Well his win rate including 6 PL matches for a start.
But in a very short unproven career
Still don't think it's deseverd
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: divinewind on July 11, 2019, 11:06:32 PM
Look we all love big Dave as a person he is a gentle giant and gives his time for everyone but the fact is he shouldn't of been handed the job. That winning run towards the end of the premier League season was the worst thing that could of happened as it gave the board a easy decision to make. We should of gone for someone such as Dean Smith who has worked wonders with shoe string budgets. Sacking Darren was the right decision it was failing to replace him with a strong experienced replacement which was the mistake.

A much more reasoned and balanced assessment than my manic rants.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Standaman on July 13, 2019, 10:22:37 AM
I am pleased that he has got back into the game. I hope he does well at Donny but I wouldn't under estimate the pressure he is under there either. Yes they are in League one but they made the play-offs last year so there are expectations.

Hopefully he will pick up the lessons he has learned from his all too brief spell in charge at the Hawthorns and prove his critics wrong. As ever I am somewhat conflicted about the whole episode, I didn't think he should have been appointed in the first place but nor did I think he should have been sacked when he was.

Good luck to him I will be looking out for his results. 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on July 13, 2019, 10:41:41 AM
All the best Big Dave.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: paulosull on July 13, 2019, 01:46:48 PM
Good luck Darren, hope your successful  :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 02, 2019, 10:06:47 PM
After watching that tonight, I'm so annoyed with Darren for trusting this guy. Hamstrung himself and was doomed to fail. Massive shame.


It was like watching Albion 18/19 lite.


Sh1te.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: leeiswba on August 02, 2019, 10:38:55 PM
After watching that tonight, I'm so annoyed with Darren for trusting this guy. Hamstrung himself and was doomed to fail. Massive shame.


It was like watching Albion 18/19 lite.


Sh1te.

I agree mate.

 it’s shame because I’ve always quite liked Luton for some reason, think it may have something to do with it’s the away end that stays in my memory more than any other but with Jones there it does make me want them to go down.

 Really don’t like the bloke.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 03, 2019, 11:38:49 AM
There is a Graeme Jones thread in the general sports section. Can you please post in there. Cheers
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ashdoy on September 14, 2019, 12:33:07 PM
Might be wrong of me to bring this up, but 9 of our starting XI today are black/mixed race.

Don’t hear Durham claiming us to be racist now do we. Ridiculous statement
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: frazzle on September 14, 2019, 05:22:32 PM
Looks like he has started well. Unbeaten.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 22, 2019, 11:42:20 PM
Darren is at it again. 7(seven)-1 away win tonight.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: leeiswba on October 23, 2019, 07:11:25 AM
FairPlay to him would love him to go up with them but let’s give everyone the full picture of last night at least, playing against a team who had already shipped 33 goals and were down to 9 men by the 53rd minute
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ronnie_allen on October 23, 2019, 10:56:20 AM
FairPlay to him would love him to go up with them but let’s give everyone the full picture of last night at least, playing against a team who had already shipped 33 goals and were down to 9 men by the 53rd minute

True. Still an impressive score-line, although the one main source I listen to concerning EFL Football were tipping Doncaster for a relegation struggle; while currently they are (just about) in the play-offs. Appears to be doing a good steady job at the least and wish him and Doncaster all the best myself (not really feeling similar sentiments for Luton though). 
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on October 23, 2019, 01:06:48 PM
Saw this thread pop up and thought Doncaster had sacked him following a 1-7 away win  ;D .
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on October 23, 2019, 08:07:38 PM
Saw this thread pop up and thought Doncaster had sacked him following a 1-7 away win  ;D .

Me to.

Can I make a suggestion that the mods remove the “sacked” bit from the thread if possible please  :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on October 24, 2019, 10:22:52 AM
saw the "Darren Moore sacked" thread had been moved and then saw this thread. Put 2 & 2 together and made 5 !

Darren seems to be doing a good job at Donny, would be a major achievement to get them to play offs IMO, early days yet though.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: smethwick2 on October 24, 2019, 01:05:50 PM
I really hope that he learns from the mistakes he made with us and go on to become a top manager. Hardly a nicer guy in football and was a hero of mine growing up. If he could get the bit at the back right, he plays very nice attacking football and could do very well, just needs that experience where he can learn from his errors
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: AlbionFan on October 24, 2019, 01:21:15 PM
Thank you to the mods for listening  :)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on October 20, 2020, 09:13:31 PM
Very good start to the season, given high flying Ipswich a tonking tonight, well done Darren
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on October 20, 2020, 10:37:52 PM
Always follow his progress at Rovers and I hope he does well there as he is great bloke and I have a soft spot for them as  we won promotion there and it was brilliant to celebrate on an away pitch and their fans were very generous in their applause of our promotion whilst we celebrated.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: timdon on October 20, 2020, 10:47:52 PM
Always follow his progress at Rovers and I hope he does well there as he is great bloke and I have a soft spot for them as  we won promotion there and it was brilliant to celebrate on an away pitch and their fans were very generous in their applause of our promotion whilst we celebrated.
That was a great day out, that was. Lovely sunny weather, really good match (Dorrans scored a cracker from a free kick if I remember correctly), and sealing promotion being the icing on the cake. Excellent result for big Dave tonight.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: JMullen95 on March 14, 2021, 02:41:49 PM
Lost his first three games as Wednesday manager.

Wouldn’t surprise me if our fans blamed it on Graeme Jones despite him being at Newcastle.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on March 14, 2021, 07:45:16 PM
Big Dave was doing well at Doncaster remember seeing them in the FA Cup can't remember if it is was live or on MOTD but they gave the game a good go and played well but lost. Sheffield Wednesday is a mess of a Club I still think Big Dave should have returned here to be part of the youth setup with Mozza and Brunty.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: albion59 on March 14, 2021, 08:54:30 PM
Lost his first three games as Wednesday manager.

Wouldn’t surprise me if our fans blamed it on Graeme Jones despite him being at Newcastle.
What is the point of your post? A dig at Darren?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on March 14, 2021, 10:06:03 PM
Big Dave was doing well at Doncaster remember seeing them in the FA Cup can't remember if it is was live or on MOTD but they gave the game a good go and played well but lost. Sheffield Wednesday is a mess of a Club I still think Big Dave should have returned here to be part of the youth setup with Mozza and Brunty.
And Quinny and Koreney and Dartoney and Taylorey
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on March 14, 2021, 10:10:33 PM
And Quinny and Koreney and Dartoney and Taylorey
Ah yes them to but Big Dave was working for the youth before his rise to sack him completely was disgusting we should have rehired him to work with the youth.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 14, 2021, 10:12:28 PM
Ah yes them to but Big Dave was working for the youth before his rise to sack him completely was disgusting we should have rehired him to work with the youth.

He would never have accepted. His days of being a youth coach are over.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 14, 2021, 10:18:11 PM
Norwich are 10 points clear and his awful Wednesday side matched them for an hour. He's a good coach, every chance he'll keep them up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 20, 2021, 06:33:41 PM
First win on the board in Barnsley’s cup final  :D

Chuffed for him
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dexy on March 20, 2021, 09:03:09 PM
First win on the board in Barnsley’s cup final  :D

Chuffed for him
What a win that is  8)
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on March 20, 2021, 10:45:00 PM
Great Escape time huh But Seriously well done to Big Dave Big Dave there's only one Big Dave Big Dave
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on April 02, 2021, 02:16:49 PM
Hes officially got the old Covid. Get well soon Darren.

"Sheffield Wednesday
@swfc
Darren Moore will be absent from the dugout this afternoon having returned a positive COVID-19 test result.

Assistant manager Jamie Smith will lead the Owls at Vicarage Road.

Speedy recovery, gaffer!
Owl"
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on April 03, 2021, 12:02:46 PM
Thoughts are with Darren and his family, all of the very best big man.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wodenson46 on April 03, 2021, 04:33:30 PM
Complete and speedy recovery big man. Best wishes to you and yours.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 03, 2021, 05:01:19 PM
Get well soon Big Dave thoughts go out to him and his family horrible virus and hopefully with his Football background and his good shape he beats it soon,
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on April 15, 2021, 08:34:46 PM
Horrible news about Moore. Seemed to have made a recovery but now had pneumonia and blood clots as a result of Covid and what he has described as "extreme discomfort". I really hope he can make a come back soon.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: CL3MO on April 15, 2021, 08:44:58 PM
Worrying news that - horrible to hear. Fingers crossed for a full recovery for Big Dave.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: iwastherein68 on April 15, 2021, 09:01:39 PM
Best wishes Darren. Our thoughts are with you and yours. Come on big man.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on April 15, 2021, 10:12:36 PM
Come on Darren, all of the very best big man.

Thoughts are with you and yours.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on April 15, 2021, 10:16:20 PM
What horrible news. Hope he gets through it and if this isn’t a wake up call for the deniers then there won’t be one. Fit as a fiddle and relatively young.

Get through it big man, we love you!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on April 15, 2021, 10:23:21 PM
Oh no, Darren you can & will beat this, I know you are a man of god, I am not but will say a prayer for you tonight !
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on April 15, 2021, 11:02:08 PM
I have faith in your faith Mr Moore. 💪🏼
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Cardiaccarol on April 16, 2021, 07:40:54 AM
Just announced on radio 5 that he has blood clots on his lungs as well as COVID.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery big man
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggies_24 on April 16, 2021, 07:59:28 AM
Hope the big man pulls through, sounds very scary.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on April 16, 2021, 08:39:55 AM
Best wishes and thoughts
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: seteefeet on April 16, 2021, 08:55:49 AM
Terrible news, get well soon big man.
Still a legend to me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 16, 2021, 09:21:08 AM
The power of our prayers are with Darren.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TheBaggieMan on April 16, 2021, 02:14:54 PM
Get well soon Big Dave - thoughts and best wishes are with you and your family

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: hardtobeat on April 16, 2021, 02:18:18 PM
C’mon Big Dave you got this ! Get well big man !
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: wodenson46 on April 16, 2021, 03:00:05 PM
Just another one to beat Big Man! Kick it into touch. Get well soon, Darren, and may God bless you and your family.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on April 16, 2021, 03:33:07 PM
Get well soon Darren. Wishing you a full and speedy recovery!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 16, 2021, 06:43:02 PM
Oh no this goes worse but your strong and you believe in god I don't but if he is up there I'm sure he is watching over you Get well soon Darren
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: tuamigos on April 17, 2021, 11:32:26 AM
All the best Big Man. Thoughts go to you and yours.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on April 17, 2021, 04:15:47 PM
Seen some posts from another site, he’s upright and speaking with nurses etc, should be going home tomorrow.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on April 17, 2021, 11:42:33 PM
Thanks for posting this, some great news !!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 05, 2023, 10:09:23 AM
Big Dave doing an excellent job down at Sheffield Wednesday.

Top of the league, 6 points clear with a game in hand.

22 games unbeaten in all competitions.

17 clean sheets in the league - one more to break a club record.

Nearly 34k in Hillsborough yesterday as they beat Plymouth 1-0

Looks as though the big man is taking them up  :D
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on February 05, 2023, 10:12:25 AM
Glad he's got there in the end. He was appointed here 5 years too soon for me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gerry m on February 05, 2023, 10:26:29 AM
Big Dave doing an excellent job down at Sheffield Wednesday.

Top of the league, 6 points clear with a game in hand.

22 games unbeaten in all competitions.

17 clean sheets in the league - one more to break a club record.

Nearly 34k in Hillsborough yesterday as they beat Plymouth 1-0

Looks as though the big man is taking them up  :D


Lets hope so. A top guy and coach, and obviously a legend here!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Atomic on February 05, 2023, 10:35:18 AM
Really pleased for Big Dave. Nicest bloke in the world I really hope he sees it through and gets Sheff Wed promoted. Great old club, been in the doldrums for far too long.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on February 06, 2023, 01:22:07 PM
Great news, gathered the atmosphere pre game was brilliant at Hillsborough, fans really enjoying his reign now as its got going.

Pleased for him, had some doubts in this day and age with the super analytical managers as he always struck me as more of a great man motivator and leader, but ultimately old fashioned but he's doing a brilliant job.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on February 06, 2023, 09:02:36 PM
Big Dave doing an excellent job down at Sheffield Wednesday.

Top of the league, 6 points clear with a game in hand.

22 games unbeaten in all competitions.

17 clean sheets in the league - one more to break a club record.

Nearly 34k in Hillsborough yesterday as they beat Plymouth 1-0

Looks as though the big man is taking them up  :D
Probably helps not having a right hand man insisting they play out from the back 100% of the time.

Seriously, brilliant stuff, hope they go up.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on February 06, 2023, 09:32:35 PM
Probably helps not having a right hand man insisting they play out from the back 100% of the time.

Seriously, brilliant stuff, hope they go up.
The Daily Mail guessing we’ll approach him if Carlos goes. Do these guys actually receive a wage?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on February 07, 2023, 12:05:33 PM
Probably helps not having a right hand man insisting they play out from the back 100% of the time.

Seriously, brilliant stuff, hope they go up.

Yeah, makes me wonder how good Moore was/is - based on his time in the Premier League managing us, his style was completely different to the Championship. I really dislike Jones too, so perhaps Moore wasn't ever that bad. Time will tell anyway.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on February 07, 2023, 12:37:59 PM
Yeah, makes me wonder how good Moore was/is - based on his time in the Premier League managing us, his style was completely different to the Championship. I really dislike Jones too, so perhaps Moore wasn't ever that bad. Time will tell anyway.

Didn't exactly have roaring success after us either did he, despite his unwavering belief in his own 'philosophy'.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on February 07, 2023, 12:49:26 PM
managers sticking rigidly to a philosophy doesnt very often end well, it needs time to build a squad who "fit" and that's not feasible nowadays.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on February 07, 2023, 12:51:39 PM
Yeah, makes me wonder how good Moore was/is - based on his time in the Premier League managing us, his style was completely different to the Championship. I really dislike Jones too, so perhaps Moore wasn't ever that bad. Time will tell anyway.
Dave’s back with Shan at Wednesday, obviously they were together in that PL stint as well before Shan left/ was replaced with Jones (whichever is correct), hence why it’s similar to how Wednesday play now.

From what I can tell the general idea is Shan is the tactician and the “on field manager” if you will. Dave is the face and off field manager, who’s very good at getting people to work with him and get his/their ideas across. It seems to be working well for them and I’d guess they’ll come as a pair if/when they move on.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Dan on February 07, 2023, 03:08:10 PM
Glad to see him doing well, we never should have given him the permanent job when we did, he just wasn't ready for that. Appointing people with no experience to manage relegated teams who expect instant promotion never ends well. That squad should have walked automatic promotion that year. Instead Moore didn't trust his instincts at that point and Graeme Jones had too much power and made us far too beatable, if he'd trusted in his more pragmatic instincts he'd likely have done much better.

Certainly Jones has a good reputation as a coach but a good tactician he most certainly isn't, as also shown by his time here and Luton. The three at the back formation was also a horrible fit for that side.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 07, 2023, 09:18:05 PM
Dave’s back with Shan at Wednesday, obviously they were together in that PL stint as well before Shan left/ was replaced with Jones (whichever is correct), hence why it’s similar to how Wednesday play now.

From what I can tell the general idea is Shan is the tactician and the “on field manager” if you will. Dave is the face and off field manager, who’s very good at getting people to work with him and get his/their ideas across. It seems to be working well for them and I’d guess they’ll come as a pair if/when they move on.

I’m not sure whether Shan is even still at Wednesday - he’s not listed on their website and he’s certainly not on their bench on a match day.

The person you describe in your second paragraph - and has been an ever present with Moore at Hillsborough and Doncaster is Jamie Smith - who was also an academy coach at the Albion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on February 07, 2023, 09:26:37 PM
I always look out for Darren Moore's results and was very happy him when sw beat pa last Saturday to replace them in top spot.

I hope he goes on to secure promotion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Baggies on February 11, 2023, 09:34:47 PM
I’m not sure whether Shan is even still at Wednesday - he’s not listed on their website and he’s certainly not on their bench on a match day.

The person you describe in your second paragraph - and has been an ever present with Moore at Hillsborough and Doncaster is Jamie Smith - who was also an academy coach at the Albion.

Shan is still there. Local paper have run a story in the kast few days calling him Wednesday's "secret weapon".
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 12, 2023, 09:29:59 AM
Shan is still there. Local paper have run a story in the kast few days calling him Wednesday's "secret weapon".

Funnily enough I did catch that article after my posting.

Definitely answered my question.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on March 29, 2023, 09:18:39 PM
Unfortunately, Darren Moore is having a terrible run now after going on a twenty odd unbeaten streak.

I hope he turns it around quickly and gets over the line for promotion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on May 07, 2023, 04:07:36 PM
Darren Moore has had terrible bad luck to get 96 points and still not get promoted.

On a very, very, very much brighter note Derby missed out on the po after losing today and dropping from 6th to 7th.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on May 18, 2023, 10:57:16 PM
The Legend continues...4 nil down.

Now go finish the job big man.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Groovephil on May 19, 2023, 12:05:33 AM
Over the moon for this wonderful man. You can do it Dave.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Mikkyk on May 19, 2023, 12:21:10 AM
And to think Wednesday fans were calling for his head
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: dangerman on May 19, 2023, 08:28:25 AM
I think he’s going to the top, I even think he may get Wednesday into the premier league.

Ultimately I don’t think he was quite ready for us unfortunately but he’s learning all the time and now think if he takes them up (which I think he will), they will leap frog us and he’ll go onto bigger and better things.

As a side, he’s such a lovely bloke and deserves all the success coming his way!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: baggie96 on May 19, 2023, 09:22:04 AM
Love the guy, such a shame he appointed Graeme Jones as assistant here. Really should have been Jimmy Shan. Hopefully he gets another shot one day
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on May 19, 2023, 09:47:58 AM
Well done to Darren Moore and his players. That Wendy who sent the racist tweet following the first leg defeat looks even more of an appendage now.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: liverbaggie on May 19, 2023, 01:16:19 PM
Well done so far Big Dave, whoe said nice guys dont win?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on May 19, 2023, 01:25:27 PM
Well done Big Dave. Top guy
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hull Baggie on May 19, 2023, 01:35:02 PM
Well done so far Big Dave, whoe said nice guys dont win?

He hasn't  won anything yet though.
I do hope that Sheff Wed win the final but they shouldn't have been in the play offs they should have got automatic promotion.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on May 20, 2023, 07:52:58 AM
Great response to the racist abuse
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on May 29, 2023, 12:09:24 PM
good luck today Darren
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: BalisPen on May 29, 2023, 07:34:56 PM
Well done Big Dave, you absolute legend.

4 nil down in the semi, and then to win with the last touch of extra time was brilliant.

The Barnsley gk Istead (on loan from Luton) was great and if it went to pens I had a bad feeling Barnsley would have won.

I hope we get 6 points from though next season big man.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: OhBilics on May 29, 2023, 07:59:29 PM
It really couldn't have happened to a nicer person. I'm chuffed for him (and the Wednesday supporters).
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 29, 2023, 08:01:23 PM
Delighted to see this today. So very pleased for Big Dave, truly over the moon for him.

I hope he reads this thread and realises how much he is loved and respected by us Baggies.

If and when we lose CC (I'm hoping we don't by the way!!) I'd take Big Dave back without question.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: WBArgo on May 29, 2023, 08:12:35 PM
Delighted to see this today. So very pleased for Big Dave, truly over the moon for him.

I hope he reads this thread and realises how much he is loved and respected by us Baggies.

If and when we lose CC (I'm hoping we don't by the way!!) I'd take Big Dave back without question.

Without that poser Jones, Darren Moore looks like a decent manager so far. I do wonder without Jones, if we'd have got promoted this season, I guess we'll never know.

Delighted for Moore though.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Orlando Astle on May 29, 2023, 10:56:51 PM
Not much to cheer this season but Wednesday going up is something I can be happy about. Some Owls fans should be ashamed of themselves given the abuse they gave him.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Albionic on June 19, 2023, 07:24:16 PM
Darren and Wednesday have parted company “by mutual consent”, did not see that coming. I Will not be following them next season!!
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Lionheart on June 19, 2023, 08:00:20 PM
Darren and Wednesday have parted company “by mutual consent”, did not see that coming. I Will not be following them next season!!
Seems very odd doesn't it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on June 19, 2023, 08:15:22 PM
Darren and Wednesday have parted company “by mutual consent”, did not see that coming. I Will not be following them next season!!
the Dave and Wednesday part ways the same day Bournemouth sack their manager? Interesting…
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: johnny Cash on June 19, 2023, 08:18:01 PM
the Dave and Wednesday part ways the same day Bournemouth sack their manager? Interesting…

Bournemouth have already announced a new manager.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on June 19, 2023, 08:55:17 PM
Bournemouth have already announced a new manager.
yeah, spotted that after.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: mulliganstired on June 19, 2023, 10:21:59 PM
WTAF? as the young folk say
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: ex coseley kid on June 20, 2023, 08:36:58 PM
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this; doesn't make sense to me.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 21, 2023, 11:54:31 AM
A baffling decision.

Chansiri is targeting the play-offs this season so I am not surprised he has agreed to walk as I would expect that the budget provided and lack of infrastructure at the club around their recruitment makes those ambitions incredibly difficult.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on June 30, 2023, 08:21:14 AM
Chansiri has spoken on Moore's departure.

Darren Moore asked for a 400 percent pay rise at a minimum, on a 3 year deal.

Chansiri offers a payrise but not at this figure,Dave declines so they agree on mutual split.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: MarkW on June 30, 2023, 02:50:06 PM
Chansiri has spoken on Moore's departure.

Darren Moore asked for a 400 percent pay rise at a minimum, on a 3 year deal.

Chansiri offers a payrise but not at this figure,Dave declines so they agree on mutual split.

It's tough to imagine Darren demanding a 4x pay increase, but say he was on £2k a week, going to £8k isn't unreasonable, I don't think.

Ultimately, it's unlikely DM will say anything in response, so we will only have one side of the story.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on June 30, 2023, 02:56:18 PM
It's tough to imagine Darren demanding a 4x pay increase, but say he was on £2k a week, going to £8k isn't unreasonable, I don't think.

Ultimately, it's unlikely DM will say anything in response, so we will only have one side of the story.

Chansiri has released it in public via official statement and explicitly stated DM payrise and contract request so if it's untrue it will be very easy for DM to take legal action surely?

No shame in asking for a payrise but as you say it depends what was he on prior to the discussion.  If it was a reasonable amount then 400% is a joke but if DM was underpaid then it's only right.

On Twitter there was something saying that the average L1 manager gets around 150k a year and an average champo manager gets about £650k a year. Maybe that's what DM was basing his 4x payrise request on. Thing is DM hasn't done anything at Champo level as a manager other than fail here so he needs to reign himself in a bit if that's what it's based on.

Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: zippyandbungle on July 01, 2023, 08:43:59 AM
Chansiri has released it in public via official statement and explicitly stated DM payrise and contract request so if it's untrue it will be very easy for DM to take legal action surely?

No shame in asking for a payrise but as you say it depends what was he on prior to the discussion.  If it was a reasonable amount then 400% is a joke but if DM was underpaid then it's only right.

On Twitter there was something saying that the average L1 manager gets around 150k a year and an average champo manager gets about £650k a year. Maybe that's what DM was basing his 4x payrise request on. Thing is DM hasn't done anything at Champo level as a manager other than fail here so he needs to reign himself in a bit if that's what it's based on.

I disagree
If he took a job based on a contract that he had negotiated then those are the terms.
If he isn’t savvy enough to put in an increase in the event of promotion then more fool him and his representatives.
Does anyone belive that Corberan wouldn’t have inserted such a clause?, anyone thinks that Kompany is on the same this week that he was in January?
If it’s true then it shows that he really should have been cleverer when signing.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on July 01, 2023, 09:25:23 AM
I disagree
If he took a job based on a contract that he had negotiated then those are the terms.
If he isn’t savvy enough to put in an increase in the event of promotion then more fool him and his representatives.
Does anyone belive that Corberan wouldn’t have inserted such a clause?, anyone thinks that Kompany is on the same this week that he was in January?
If it’s true then it shows that he really should have been cleverer when signing.

That's why i said no shame in asking for a payrise based on the successful season. Doesn't mean he's automatically entitled to 400% though if true.

Sounds like Chansiri was happy to give him a payrise and new deal just not at 400% from his old deal.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: boinging_along on July 01, 2023, 10:01:28 AM
Yeah, entirely depends on what Dave's wage was before.  400% means nothing unless you know that.

I would be incredibly surprised if he's suddenly become a greedy, money based manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on July 01, 2023, 12:48:08 PM
Chansiri has released it in public via official statement and explicitly stated DM payrise and contract request so if it's untrue it will be very easy for DM to take legal action surely?

No shame in asking for a payrise but as you say it depends what was he on prior to the discussion.  If it was a reasonable amount then 400% is a joke but if DM was underpaid then it's only right.

On Twitter there was something saying that the average L1 manager gets around 150k a year and an average champo manager gets about £650k a year. Maybe that's what DM was basing his 4x payrise request on. Thing is DM hasn't done anything at Champo level as a manager other than fail here so he needs to reign himself in a bit if that's what it's based on.

I read an article which outlined the back and forth of their contract negotiations. I was left with the impression that Chansiri should change his name to Chancer. It read like utter bull shine.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on July 01, 2023, 04:28:53 PM
I read an article which outlined the back and forth of their contract negotiations. I was left with the impression that Chansiri should change his name to Chancer. It read like utter bull shine.

Got a link please Dan?
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on July 01, 2023, 04:38:33 PM
Got a link please Dan?

Read the official statement from Chansiri and hear it from the horses mouth
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on July 01, 2023, 04:40:37 PM
Read the official statement from Chansiri and hear it from the horses mouth

Oh that. Well, like I say if it's wrong DM can take action to prove it.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on July 01, 2023, 04:41:02 PM
Got a link please Dan?

Here you go, courtesy of Sky......

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/12912001/sheffield-wednesday-chairman-dejphon-chansiri-says-contract-demands-led-to-darren-moores-exit
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on July 01, 2023, 04:41:47 PM
Cheers Dan, have read it. Thought there was something different.

Hopefully DM takes legal action to prove hin wrong.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on July 01, 2023, 04:45:25 PM
Cheers Dan, have read it. Thought there was something different.

Hopefully DM takes legal action to prove hin wrong.

Even if he is telling the truth it seems wrong to broadcast it all, no? Should be private.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on July 01, 2023, 04:51:59 PM
Even if he is telling the truth it seems wrong to broadcast it all, no? Should be private.

The back and forth vagueness leads me to politely suggest there's a whiff in the air....
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: lewisant on July 01, 2023, 05:06:16 PM
The back and forth vagueness leads me to politely suggest there's a whiff in the air....

Of bull shine
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 29, 2024, 12:33:04 PM
Sacked by Huddersfield now.

3 wins in 23.

As I said when he was here, superb bloke, poor manager.
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 29, 2024, 01:01:27 PM
Sacked by Huddersfield now.

3 wins in 23.

As I said when he was here, superb bloke, poor manager.

I would say he is a good manager based on what he achieved at Sheffield Wednesday however I would say at lower level League 1 and below
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: gazberg on January 29, 2024, 01:15:05 PM
Sacked by Huddersfield now.

3 wins in 23.

As I said when he was here, superb bloke, poor manager.

Fully agree. Love the bloke but not a champo level manager sadly
Title: Re: Darren Moore
Post by: SmethDan on January 29, 2024, 01:32:33 PM
In fairness although he chose to take both jobs I can't imagine the owners of Sheffield Wednesday and Huddersfield being dream employers. And while I felt he underachieved with the resources at his disposal here neither is Lai.