Author Topic: 30 Sept 2017 Albion 2 Watford 2  (Read 60630 times)

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Aussie Baggie

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #300 on: October 01, 2017, 11:34:21 PM »
Please enlighten me - has anyone heard Pulis commenting on our lack of possesion in basically every game? Is it what he wants? I think this is the biggest problem that we allow every team dominating us. Surely it can't be intentional?

I've been wondering this too, but I also want to know if he cops it in the press for his negative tactics? Does anyone on MOTD or any of the paper press get stuck into him?

All I ever read from over here is that you know what you're going to get from the Baggies, they're a tough side and hard to break down. I've never heard or read anyone from the media criticising TP.

barnestormer

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #301 on: October 01, 2017, 11:46:10 PM »
That was pathetic.

No other words to sum up that performance. It was shocking. A good five minutes spell and then we conceded the remainder of the game to Watford.

As for that **** McClean. He will never learn. Thick as pigshit. A ridiculous tackle to make given the circumstances which again come from us being useless with the ball. And don't get me started on the useless gits corners.
afraid im old school,he got the ball first,the football authorities have made football a girls no contact sport and it p1sses me off big time.and just to be sure there were no studs up

alex1

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #302 on: October 02, 2017, 12:51:10 AM »
I think alot of teams have sussed how to chase us down whilst we are clearing the ball. Because we play so deep the defenders get into panic mode in case they lose possession close to their goal, so they just launch it up the pitch. Inevitably 75% of the time the ball then gets lost almost instantly. Rondon or whoever is up there rarely have enough around him to lay it off to. His goal yestrday he did it all on his own, which is alot to expect on a regular basis. Even with JayRod to help is not enough. Even when we play 2 defensive midfielders, as opposed to 3, we still play too deep. The team has to move as a unit up the pitch. One good thing. Gibbs does get forward well. Hope that doesn't get coached out of him.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 12:54:05 AM by alex1 »
Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

AidantheBaggies

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #303 on: October 02, 2017, 08:03:29 AM »
Time wasting at home to Watford is just embarrassing. As for people saying the free kick at the end was wrong, i suggest you take the blue and white tinted spectacles off, its a clear foul.

As long as the lads keep working ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDD we will be fine  :P
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skyclad99

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #304 on: October 02, 2017, 08:58:07 AM »
Time wasting at home to Watford is just embarrassing. As for people saying the free kick at the end was wrong, i suggest you take the blue and white tinted spectacles off, its a clear foul.

As long as the lads keep working ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDDDDDDDD we will be fine  :P

Whether it was or not, he started the tackle in a different post code and it didn't look good, even if he did win the ball. Should not have been in the position of needing to do it in the first place with 1 minute to go.
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Fritzl Palace

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #305 on: October 02, 2017, 09:28:01 AM »
Saw the highlights for the first time last night. Fail to see what TP and others are moaning at, it was a clear foul  :-X

Blimey if we are pinning all of our hopes on blaming the referee for another abject display we are truly clutching at straws.

Fritzl Palace

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Re: Score prediction
« Reply #306 on: October 02, 2017, 09:31:27 AM »
I'll go 1-1 in this one.

Richarlson for them, Dawson for us.

I'll take a point for the correct outcome and a scorer. Half a point for knowing one of our goals would be a set piece  ;D

Legend

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Re: Score prediction
« Reply #307 on: October 02, 2017, 09:37:56 AM »
I also predicted a draw. Getting good at these predictions.  :P
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Fritzl Palace

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Re: Score prediction
« Reply #308 on: October 02, 2017, 09:41:18 AM »
Ah but you also said we would stifle them and not allow them to play, but in reality they ran rings around us throughout so your point is deducted  :D

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #309 on: October 02, 2017, 03:44:02 PM »
at home against Watford or on the road at Arsenal, formations/lineups may change but the mentality/gameplan is the same: defend, counter-attack. Except that the defending is far from ideal considering how many bodies and how much energy gets put into it, and the counter-attacking is timid - almost as if you're scared of counter-attacking too much or too heavily for fear of exposing your defense.

I have no idea what people watched on Saturday, I watched a game in which Watford was on the front foot all game long and we were on the back foot the whole time. Twice we happened to counter effectively and a couple of other times we came close, but that was it. Had they not gotten that goal in the final play I would had still slammed the performance regardless of the result. Because what I've seen this season so far (and honestly prior to this season as well) is the same tired performance, and it may get results every now and then, but more often than not it'll cost you points time and time again.

The poor result is on Pulis, again.

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Re: Score prediction
« Reply #310 on: October 02, 2017, 04:01:53 PM »
2-0 Albion. Fgs Rondon

So near, and yet so very very far.........
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If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
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hillsm

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #311 on: October 02, 2017, 04:39:36 PM »
We were extremely lucky to go 2-0 up completely against the run of play through a moment of utter brilliance from Krychowiak with a perfectly weighted ball and great finish from our much derided striker and of course another corner. Watford were always going to come back into the game and they should have won it. They outplayed us from start to finish and played exactly the kind of football i wanted to see us play, on another day they'd have beaten us 3-0 with consummate ease but they lacked end product yesterday.

How people can continue to support our manager and the way we play is beyond me. Silva schooled him yesterday.


We weren't lucky to go two goals up at all. What did Watford create before we took the lead? They had a lot of the ball but did absolutely nothing with it, in fact we defended that part of the game perfectly well.

The ball by Krychowiak was a good pass, but that's what you expect from good players and is what we pay our money to see. I read your argument the other week saying our goal against Burnley was "lucky" because it was a punt forward, you can't class this goal in the same bracket.

So what if we score another goal from a corner, they scored from a set-piece too, it's part of the game. How badly did they defend that corner by the way? Evans and Hegazi were fighting over it to score without a Watford player anywhere near.

But for a last ditch challenge just before their equaliser to deny McClean we would have had three goals ourselves. That challenge ultimately kept them in it and they took their chance with the last throw of the dice.

To say they could have beaten us 3-0 is laughable.

I think it is the first time we have let slip a two goal lead under Pulis, it was very common before he arrived (Spurs, West Ham, Cardiff, Villa) to name a few. We're normally very good at seeing games out now but that doesn't fit your agenda.


SmethDan

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #312 on: October 02, 2017, 06:52:57 PM »

We weren't lucky to go two goals up at all. What did Watford create before we took the lead? They had a lot of the ball but did absolutely nothing with it, in fact we defended that part of the game perfectly well.

The ball by Krychowiak was a good pass, but that's what you expect from good players and is what we pay our money to see. I read your argument the other week saying our goal against Burnley was "lucky" because it was a punt forward, you can't class this goal in the same bracket.

So what if we score another goal from a corner, they scored from a set-piece too, it's part of the game. How badly did they defend that corner by the way? Evans and Hegazi were fighting over it to score without a Watford player anywhere near.

But for a last ditch challenge just before their equaliser to deny McClean we would have had three goals ourselves. That challenge ultimately kept them in it and they took their chance with the last throw of the dice.

To say they could have beaten us 3-0 is laughable.

I think it is the first time we have let slip a two goal lead under Pulis, it was very common before he arrived (Spurs, West Ham, Cardiff, Villa) to name a few. We're normally very good at seeing games out now but that doesn't fit your agenda.

I think the last time we let a two goal lead slip in a League game was when Lukaku came back and scored two for Everton. That was September 2015 and Tony Pulis was in charge.
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TheBrom

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Re: Score prediction
« Reply #313 on: October 02, 2017, 08:06:25 PM »
So near, and yet so very very far.........

Yeah was in dreamland for 10 minutes or so!

Fritzl Palace

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #314 on: October 03, 2017, 09:35:14 AM »

We weren't lucky to go two goals up at all. What did Watford create before we took the lead? They had a lot of the ball but did absolutely nothing with it, in fact we defended that part of the game perfectly well.

The ball by Krychowiak was a good pass, but that's what you expect from good players and is what we pay our money to see. I read your argument the other week saying our goal against Burnley was "lucky" because it was a punt forward, you can't class this goal in the same bracket.

So what if we score another goal from a corner, they scored from a set-piece too, it's part of the game. How badly did they defend that corner by the way? Evans and Hegazi were fighting over it to score without a Watford player anywhere near.

But for a last ditch challenge just before their equaliser to deny McClean we would have had three goals ourselves. That challenge ultimately kept them in it and they took their chance with the last throw of the dice.

To say they could have beaten us 3-0 is laughable.

I think it is the first time we have let slip a two goal lead under Pulis, it was very common before he arrived (Spurs, West Ham, Cardiff, Villa) to name a few. We're normally very good at seeing games out now but that doesn't fit your agenda.

Apologies, only just noticed this.

In pattern of play we had barely touched the ball before we scored, whilst they had yet to score or create a clear cut chance they were building continuous pressure and Richarlson was getting in behind Dawson time and time again. We seriously sucker punched them with those two goals, but even with those two goals you could certainly see Watford at least getting a draw because they were all over us throughout. They deserved to win on Saturday, certainly couldn't begrudge them the point, they were by far the better side and I was nothing but impressed by them and their manager.

If watching us fail to string five consecutive passes together in the attacking third in any game floats your boat then fair play, but it doesn't do it for me sadly. I do sometimes look at myself and wonder if I am moaning for the sake of moaning, then I remember the game that has just gone and realise that I am right, even if others don't agree because they are happy just to see us do enough to stay in the league. I want to see more from my side, I want to see us have the ball, play with the ball, create chances through brilliant pieces of skill, wingers flying past people, great movement off the ball to create the space, but under Pulis it will just never happen. We will get the ball, launch it long at Rondon, try and pick up the scraps, work our way into the corners and play the ball off someone for a set piece to give us our best chance of scoring. It just isn't for me, sorry.

I didn't class the goal against Watford in the same bracket at all chap. If you read my post, I said it was something along the lines of a touch of class (not verbatim as I can't remember my wording) from Krychowiak and a brilliant finish by Rondon who I continue to support even though the majority appear to have given up on him and look for a reason to moan about him whenever the ball goes near him. The goal against Burnley was a long punt upfield, the ball from Krychowiak was sublime and perfectly waited for anyone willing to gamble.

I have no agenda my friend, I am calling it as I see it. I am not one for stats, but how many games have we won in the last, say, 20 now? We have had perhaps the easiest start to the season we could have possibly hoped for, Bournemouth, Burnley, West Ham, Stoke, Brighton, Watford with Arsenal sandwiched in there and we have managed to pick up 9 points from them. It's a poor return considering the opposition and who we have coming up next. Not only are we now not playing with any quality, we are also failing to pick up the requisite points which is the only reason I can see for supporting the way we are playing currently. Of course Jacko will say that if you pick up more points than games, which we have by 2, you will stay up, but I think you have to look at the fact we still have all of the big boys, save for Arsenal, left to play in the first half of fixtures as a factor when assessing our current points per game.

If you disagree with the points of myself, or the likes of Standaman etc then fine, that's what we are here for, it's a discussion board. But if you cannot see that we have a point and even those who have previously been pro Pulis have started to be turned off because of what we are watching week in week out, then I struggle to see how I can discuss it with you. I can appreciate what Pulis brings to a club, the nigh on guarantee that you will stay up, it's just that that alone isn't enough for me, I want to be entertained by my team as well.

hillsm

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #315 on: October 03, 2017, 10:24:51 AM »
Apologies, only just noticed this.

In pattern of play we had barely touched the ball before we scored, whilst they had yet to score or create a clear cut chance they were building continuous pressure and Richarlson was getting in behind Dawson time and time again. We seriously sucker punched them with those two goals, but even with those two goals you could certainly see Watford at least getting a draw because they were all over us throughout. They deserved to win on Saturday, certainly couldn't begrudge them the point, they were by far the better side and I was nothing but impressed by them and their manager.

If watching us fail to string five consecutive passes together in the attacking third in any game floats your boat then fair play, but it doesn't do it for me sadly. I do sometimes look at myself and wonder if I am moaning for the sake of moaning, then I remember the game that has just gone and realise that I am right, even if others don't agree because they are happy just to see us do enough to stay in the league. I want to see more from my side, I want to see us have the ball, play with the ball, create chances through brilliant pieces of skill, wingers flying past people, great movement off the ball to create the space, but under Pulis it will just never happen. We will get the ball, launch it long at Rondon, try and pick up the scraps, work our way into the corners and play the ball off someone for a set piece to give us our best chance of scoring. It just isn't for me, sorry.

I didn't class the goal against Watford in the same bracket at all chap. If you read my post, I said it was something along the lines of a touch of class (not verbatim as I can't remember my wording) from Krychowiak and a brilliant finish by Rondon who I continue to support even though the majority appear to have given up on him and look for a reason to moan about him whenever the ball goes near him. The goal against Burnley was a long punt upfield, the ball from Krychowiak was sublime and perfectly waited for anyone willing to gamble.

I have no agenda my friend, I am calling it as I see it. I am not one for stats, but how many games have we won in the last, say, 20 now? We have had perhaps the easiest start to the season we could have possibly hoped for, Bournemouth, Burnley, West Ham, Stoke, Brighton, Watford with Arsenal sandwiched in there and we have managed to pick up 9 points from them. It's a poor return considering the opposition and who we have coming up next. Not only are we now not playing with any quality, we are also failing to pick up the requisite points which is the only reason I can see for supporting the way we are playing currently. Of course Jacko will say that if you pick up more points than games, which we have by 2, you will stay up, but I think you have to look at the fact we still have all of the big boys, save for Arsenal, left to play in the first half of fixtures as a factor when assessing our current points per game.

If you disagree with the points of myself, or the likes of Standaman etc then fine, that's what we are here for, it's a discussion board. But if you cannot see that we have a point and even those who have previously been pro Pulis have started to be turned off because of what we are watching week in week out, then I struggle to see how I can discuss it with you. I can appreciate what Pulis brings to a club, the nigh on guarantee that you will stay up, it's just that that alone isn't enough for me, I want to be entertained by my team as well.


I think a lot of your points are valid in terms of the style of play that we choose to employ and I appreciate everyone has a preference in the style they want to watch. Watford were easy on the eye and knocked it around well but that's only a crumb of comfort if defensively you are inept. Both teams will feel that they should have done better with the goals they conceded but ultimately I think a draw was the fair result. Pulis certainly wasn't "schooled" by Silva in that game.

I think anyone who looks at a set of fixtures on paper and tries to calculate some kind of points target from them is naive. We had all the pant wetting on here a few years ago concerning our final six fixtures of the 2014/15 season. People were writing us off in them and saying we needed to be safe in early April or we would go down. Ultimately we only lost the final game away to Arsenal and picked up 11 points from the other five games, including wins over Man Utd and Chelsea.

Our win away to Burnley looks better by the week and we're the only team to defeat them in the league this season. I bet Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool and Everton fans thought that would be an easy game too...   

Fritzl Palace

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #316 on: October 03, 2017, 10:50:44 AM »

I think a lot of your points are valid in terms of the style of play that we choose to employ and I appreciate everyone has a preference in the style they want to watch. Watford were easy on the eye and knocked it around well but that's only a crumb of comfort if defensively you are inept. Both teams will feel that they should have done better with the goals they conceded but ultimately I think a draw was the fair result. Pulis certainly wasn't "schooled" by Silva in that game.

I think anyone who looks at a set of fixtures on paper and tries to calculate some kind of points target from them is naive. We had all the pant wetting on here a few years ago concerning our final six fixtures of the 2014/15 season. People were writing us off in them and saying we needed to be safe in early April or we would go down. Ultimately we only lost the final game away to Arsenal and picked up 11 points from the other five games, including wins over Man Utd and Chelsea.

Our win away to Burnley looks better by the week and we're the only team to defeat them in the league this season. I bet Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool and Everton fans thought that would be an easy game too...

I think you would have to look at the difference between Watford and, say, Bournemouth who we played at the start of the season. With Watford they passed it around nicely but they were passing it with intent to score in mind, getting into some great positions because of it and I felt if they had someone with more quality than Deeney up top, who is a lump let's face it and a lump we'll probably end up signing, they could have exploited those positions far better. Bournemouth were the epitome of passing it around for the sake of it with no end product and I would not want us playing like that, nor would I ever want Eddie Howe in charge of us.

I had nothing but admiration for Watford on that performance, they got caught cold by us from the superb ball from Krycho and were still reeling when the corner came around to put us 2 up, but instead of folding or panicking at that point, they believed in their style of play and that they would create chances and in addition to the two goals, their one lad missed an open goal and Capoue's effort was whistling into the bottom corner before it deflected just wide. I would disagree and say that Pulis was schooled, we were far inferior throughout the match and his substitutions were awful to compound it, but I have no issue with you disagreeing.

Of course you can never rule anything out in terms of the fixtures, but I can do nothing more than look at our most recent results against the top sides last season where we didn't do much against them throughout, save for a serious backs to the wall job against a Man United side who struggled to break many teams down and a G-Mac error at Chelsea. With the way we set up to play, unless we do keep the clean sheet, there is next to no chance of us getting anything from the games as we do not carry a goal threat with our team of defensive midfielders and defenders.

But I would always go back to the fact that my argument against Pulis is not the results he gets because he has teams in and around the mid table area so you cannot dispute the results, I just cannot abide watching the methods to get those results. There is more to football than just the end product for me, not everyone will feel the same of course, but the amount of times people on here have criticised people like me, called us idiots etc. for wanting more than just grinding out wins I find frustrating and pretty poor. Just an easy argument to say Pulis keeps you up so you should have no reason to moan, which isn't aimed at you hillsm as the points you have put across have been perfectly valid and I have enjoyed discussing them with you like adults.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 11:14:43 AM by Fritzl Palace »

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #317 on: October 03, 2017, 06:58:55 PM »
I bet Pulis was fuming about McClean's 3 corners failing to beat the first man. On the evidence of the earlier corners I reckon if those 3 had gone into the mix it would have been even money we'd have been 3-1 up from one of them. Yes it would have been a set piece goal but if you attack and win a corner you might as well try and score from it.
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TheBrom

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #318 on: October 04, 2017, 03:57:18 PM »
I bet Pulis was fuming about McClean's 3 corners failing to beat the first man. On the evidence of the earlier corners I reckon if those 3 had gone into the mix it would have been even money we'd have been 3-1 up from one of them. Yes it would have been a set piece goal but if you attack and win a corner you might as well try and score from it.

Have to admit they were poor and they deflated the atmosphere too

skyclad99

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #319 on: October 04, 2017, 03:59:40 PM »
I bet Pulis was fuming about McClean's 3 corners failing to beat the first man. On the evidence of the earlier corners I reckon if those 3 had gone into the mix it would have been even money we'd have been 3-1 up from one of them. Yes it would have been a set piece goal but if you attack and win a corner you might as well try and score from it.

They were complete garbage to be fair......not what you expect from a team so feared for its set pieces.

That's where the game changed for me to be honest. It was as though he was rushing to take then... not being able to beat the first man on three occasions is not good.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 04:09:57 PM by skyclad99 »
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