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Messages - MarkW

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1
Whilst I agree with you, these are the very types of player that JMullen wants to be excluded from the point he is trying to make. He is only talking about "actual centre forwards" (as yet undefined) who score 20 goals a season, and the simple point he is making is that we don't have one and it would probably be better if we did. Do try to stay focused  ;D


He's making a valid point to be fair - only Armstrong plus as a centre forwards for their club.

Sammie Szmodics plays as a 10, Summerville is a winger, the lad at Plymouth plays from both wings.

I said in the State of the Squad thread that we just don't create enough chances to boost a strikers numbers up to 20+, or at least not within our budget & usual talent pool locations. BTA isn't clinical enough, and he doesn't get involved in build up much either, but I don't think you can just insert a better striker into this team and expect them to hit 20 goals.

Anyway, back to Mikey. A good threat for us, very good ball carrier. Do agree that his purple patch maybe has clouded expectations, and I think it's telling he's only got the one assist, which is different to Fellows. Interesting he took corners at the weekend.

2
Not sure how good but they’ve done it before and he’s quicker than Manning. Plus for us he’s probably not as effective going forward on that side

He's perfectly equipped to play off the left - he cuts inside onto his right, so his dribbling would be attacking the half space between Furlong and Kipré. He's a Premier League player, regardless of which side he plays imo

3
Think the out of contract ones in the summer are well known, but had a quick gander at the ones with 12 months left (expiring 30/06/25)

Grady
Swift
Yokuslu
Furlong
Molumby
Townsend
BTA
Ajayi
Griffiths
Taylor

In fact, the only players contracted beyond next summer are Wallace, Dike, Maja, Palmer, Fellows (and Grant).

Wasn't aware it was that many. Crunch summer incoming if we don't go up. Will have to tie them down (many will need to be on on reduced terms), sell them, or risk losing them for free.

Standaman can say it more eloquently than me, but I'm not sure how much of a market there is for any of these.

Swift is probably one of our better paid players and most Championship clubs won't be able to give him better, likewise he hasn't pulled up trees here so why would you buy him, particularly given his age?

Townsend is post-peak and will only decline. He's not reliant on pace but he isn't quick either, but with no back-up we don't have a choice but to play him for now.

Furlong, a couple of years younger than Townsend but probably not attractive to clubs better than us.

Molumby is a good age but limited as a footballer - I'd keep him if CC wants him. Only midfielder we have that can run.

Yokuslu is around 30 but imo is happy playing within himself in the Championship. His game isn't reliant on his physical attributes but his wages will be high. He's sellable and could have suitors, but does he want to go?

BTA - who knows. A striker whose best attribute is his work-rate. Reminds me of Shane Long in that sense. Probably not on high wages but question marks over Maja and Dike mean it would be risky to part with him, though I'm not sure how many Championship clubs need a non-scoring forward.

Ajayi - I can see him moving unless CC says he's a starter next season. Too old to be sitting on the bench and an international for a good team so will want minutes. Wages won't be an issue and his pace is an asset in the Championship.

Griffiths - Make a decision on him Vs Palmer. Is Palmer the no. 1 for years to come? If yes, Griffiths is wasted here and should leave. If no, get Griffiths in the team.

Taylor - next season is make or break. If he can't get into the team if/when Bartley & Kipré are gone, I don't think he will under CC

4
West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Carlos Corberan
« on: May 12, 2024, 06:22:30 PM »
I highly recommend listening to Carlos' post game interview on WBA YouTube

https://youtu.be/k6AIlsDD8HY?si=3q11FTGXMPCxUj2f

It's all good insight but shows the level he's thinking at, in terms of how the team needed to adapt because they played a back five not a back four.

6
You'd hope it's something we've prepared for the game.

If there's one thing CC can't be accused of, it's failing to prepare the team adequately. I'm hoping it's all part of the plan

7
Hope it's not that then - we're making 4 subs at the same time now.

Shows what I know! Only thought is all very experienced so hopefully know their roles?

8
Surprised we've not made any changes - we normally make them clockwork.

I think CC has drilled the XI, and subs risk disrupting the game plan.

9
Even enough half started well but then dropped off to let them into game Carlos gave them rollicking at drinks break and we improved. Think we need to get Fellow’s more involved because he’s got his man on toast. Brandon and Mikey need to improve as neither are threat.

Johnston is presumably up against KWP, who would be an improvement for most lower half Prem sides, and then besides him is Harwood-Bellis who was part of the Burnley team who romped the league.

10
I wonder if we may change to match them in a 3-5-2 shape, maybe M'Vila on.

Risk is they change back to normal and we're out of kilter.

11
We are so far back, if the ball goes forward, we almost have to run the length of the pitch.

Think it's the game plan - they have 3 CBs so hard to press with in our usual 4-4-2 shape. Hold them at arm's length

12
They've gone three at the back - I guess there'll look to leave Kyle Walker-Peters high up against Townsend, and try to pin Johnston back. They played a back 3 Vs Leeds on the last day of the season so hopefully we have looked at it a bit.

It also means they have a bit more height for set pieces which could be problematic at both ends.

Our lineup is what I would have picked. Extremely nervous but also excited to see how this plays out. COYB

13
West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Carlos Corberan
« on: May 11, 2024, 01:00:01 PM »
"Corberan’s game is based on explosive high intensity and the intention to always outrun the opposition."

Really? Does Percy believe that?

For me Corberan's game is about being flexible and adapting to the strengths and weaknesses of the opponent, rather than relying on a specific style of play. We can press, we can sit deep, we can dominate possession. But I wouldn't say we outrun teams.in the way Bielsa's teams do. I'd put Corberan stylistically closer to Guardiola than Bielsa - it's much more positional and we don't tend to.go for a man to man approach when pressing

14
I know highlights don't paint an accurate picture, but I don't think Southampton were that good at the Hawthorns. Their first goal is a really well worked corner involving two sets of blocking and they clearly looked at how we defend, because Brooks isn't picked up and then they have a guy block the man closing the crosser down, and another blocking Furlong at the far post. It's well worked, and we are vulnerable at set pieces, but you'd hope our coaches would have seen that and altered things.

Their second goal, we get the ball back and look to counter. They counter press and get a 4 on 2 and just work the extra man while our defence isn't set.

On the other hand, we had Okay force a very good save from their keeper, and Furlong could/should have done better.

All of this against the backdrop of CX being sent off in bizarre fashion!

We can absolutely win this, COYB

15
If you like your podcasts there’s a simply excellent episode of Not The Top 20 featuring a Championship Play Off preview.

I’ve listened to their weekly episodes throughout the season but it really gives an in-depth look at each of the four teams and some really interesting little bits which give the most pessimistic of fans (myself included) some real optimism that we *may* just have a chance.

Check it out. 

Have it a listen, but skipped the Norwich-Leeds chat and zoned out on the bedding stuff. Really good insight otherwise.

I've always struggled to pin down CC's style, so it's nice to hear those on the podcast confirm he changes things based on the opponent a lot (they use the two games Vs Coventry as examples). Makes things seems less clear cut and really bigs up Corberan's tactical nous.

Edit: Does anyone know where to find extended highlights of the two games Vs Saints this year on YouTube? WBA channel always have such short highlights when we lose.

Found the Feb game here:

https://youtu.be/cHMlVG0IEyo?si=u1kaeboK3y7TllCN

16
General Football & Sports / Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONS LEAGUE THREAD
« on: May 10, 2024, 06:31:59 AM »
Tremendous finish to Real-Bayern semi-final as Real turn it around in final few minutes.
Maybe not such a good call by Tuchel to take Kane, Musiala and Sane off whilst Bayern were leading. 
3 ex-Championship players appearing, Gnabry and 2 ex Stokies, Choupo-Moting and matchwinner Joselu. 

Who did Gnabry play for in the Championship? He was in the Premier for us under Pulis, right?

17
General Football & Sports / Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONS LEAGUE THREAD
« on: May 10, 2024, 06:31:10 AM »
Oh yes, forgot about them, though can't remember who Kane played for.

He was on the bench for Leicester in the (in)famous playoff semi-final with the saved pen into the Deeney goal at the other end

18
Thanks for the kind words, folks. I'll try to respond to a few points.

@KN22 - yes, BTA has missed several good chances, and nothing I've looked at can indicate if he misses when it matters or not, i.e. at 0-0 or 3-0 up.

@Dan - this is a great point and just a limitation of the data freely available on the internet. What happens if a player is through on goal, rounds the keeper but takes an extra touch and a defender comes in a tackles him? That's not a shot, it gathers no xG, but it is still poor play. I would argue, however, that he is actually quite active off the ball in the box. His first miss Vs Preston was as a result of good instincts, and he has a good habit of following up on shots in case the keeper parries.

@ttree30 - a target man or player who links play would be useful - I would argue Dike and Maja fit those roles, they've just not been available. I've said it before but do you know who on our team has the fewest touches of the ball per 90? It's BTA. That's partly a position thing (strikers normally have fewer touches than say, central midfielders), but to be dead last? It's concerning to say the least.

@hardtobeat - yes, using totals rather than per 90 figures can distort things, but in general you need to play a lot of.minites to score a lot of goals. It's hard to score from the bench! I'm certainly not saying what I've written is gospel or the only way to view the stats, but given the thread is around the state of the squad next season, rather than BTA himself, I think my conclusion is quite interesting for our transfer activity.

19
West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Cedric Kipre
« on: May 07, 2024, 11:31:28 AM »
Ive flipped my opinion on him a few times but at the start of the season I was firmly in the he’s a disaster camp so he’s made me eat my words.

I don’t see a premier league defender though, I can’t see any pre sides signing him. So where does he get his pay day? I honestly have no idea. It might be another championship club, or back to 1 of 2 in Scotland maybe?

Still think there’s a chance he could stay

A decent Ligue 1 outfit, probably.

20
Controversial opinion time! Also apologies it's so long!

I don't think a striker is a priority. We have two or four strikers on our books next season (depending on how you categorise BTA and Grant) and while you might rightly criticise BTA especially with not being clinical enough, I don't think that is a key concern.

Why?

Because as a team we don't create enough good quality chances.

This year we scored 67 goals, enough to rank 9th in the league. According to Opta, we scored 14 set pieces goals, which was joint 6th best, four penalties (joint 5th) meaning we scored only 49 open play goals, which is actually 12th in the league.

But Mark, I hear you cry, having a better striker would mean we finish more chances, so we score more open play goals! This is definitely true - having clinical players means you convert more of your chances into goals.

But as a team, we have the joint highest goals per shot, and outright highest goals per shot on target. So in general as a team, we are actually very clinical. BTA does have a lower goals per shot than other members of the squad - he's tied in 7th alongside Wallace, Swift and Bartley. Unsurprisingly Johnston and Fellows are 2nd and 3rd - their introduction into the team since January has seen them contribute 11 goals from 40 shots. Calls for Weimann to be on the bench could be warranted - he has 2 goals from 10 shots.

So why am I saying it's not a striker issue if BTA isn't as clinical as other members of the team, or other strikers in the league?

Because as a team, we just don't create enough quality chances. If you like xG, then being 11th in the xG table should give you some context. If you don't like xG, then we were 19th in shots this season. We took over 100 fewer shots than the clubs who finished above us in the league. I'm not generally a fan of taking pot-shots - the stats tend to suggest it's not a good strategy for success - but there is a definite problem with chance creation.

Another good way of looking at this is by looking at some case studies of other teams. Blackburn had the league's top goalscorers in Sammie Szmodics, who outscored his xG by a good margin to score 27 goals (xG of 22.3, 144 shots). Their next highest goalscorers got 5 a-piece from 34 and 25 shots. League winners Leicester had three players score above ten goals:

Vardy - 18 goals (4 pens), xG 17.1, 53 shots
Mavididi - 12 goals (2 pens), xG 9.1, 88 shots
Dewsbury-Hall - 12 goals (1 pen, 6 free kicks), xG 10.2, 87 shots

BTA - 11 goals (1 pen), xG 12.7, 73 shots
Swift - 9 goals (3 pens), xG 5.8, 43 shots
Diangana - 7 goals, xG 5.4, 42 shots
Johnston - 7 goals, xG 3.0, 23 shots

You can see that in general our players just didn't have the same number of shooting opportunities, and so it's no surprise we haven't scored as many. It also shows that Vardy is still a very clinical striker.

Of course being able to finish more of the few chances we create would help, but clinical goalscorers are a rare and usually expensive commodity, so if there is a tactical change to facilitate that, then it would certainly be much cheaper. Equally, other areas of the pitch are usually cheaper than strikers.

So where would I prioritise? Central midfield looks very light - only Molumby and Yokuslu are under contract next season, and neither can fill the role Mowatt has played. If Kipré leaves then his passing will definitely be missed, and I think we can all agree that left back should be an area of focus. Although it might be counter-intuitive, I would be looking at stabilising the defence first.

Remember when I said we scored 14 set pieces goals? We also conceded 15, which is joint 2nd worst! But the flip side is we conceded the 2nd lowest for open play goals (29), so we've been a really good defensive outfit when the ball is in play, but actually very vulnerable from dead balls. Given how few goals we conceded from open play, if we could tighten up the set pieces, our defence would be nigh on impenetrable.

It's hard to know if our lack of creativity is a tactical choice from Corberan - prioritising defensive stability over allowing players freedom -  or whether it's a personnel issue, with players either unable to spot passes or perhaps taking too many touches and not getting a shot off. I feel like Corberan likes us to play with very rehearsed set patterns of play - lots of third man runs and cut backs into the box. Is it a tempo issue? I do think we can be too ponderous at times, even allowing for us to try and bait a press and attack the space in behind. Ultimately, it's a systemic issue and not an issue that can be fixed with the acquisition of one single player.

Tl;Dr - our goalscoring problems aren't just down to BTA not being clinical enough, as a team we don't create enough chances, and I am unsure if a new striker will fix that.


21
West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Alex Palmer
« on: May 05, 2024, 04:38:29 AM »
Official Championship twitter account gave it to Meslier?!

Tied for Clean Sheets but Meslier conceded only 40 whereas Palmer conceded 47

22
Last Match Forum - 04/05 Preston North End (H) / Re: In Game Chat
« on: May 04, 2024, 02:13:36 PM »
Reminder about this forum rule

PLEASE DO NOT POST IN CAPITAL LETTERS. This applies to both thread titles and posts.


23
Last Match Forum - 04/05 Preston North End (H) / Re: Pre Match Chat
« on: May 04, 2024, 10:49:07 AM »
That’s kind of how I feel but a Wembley trip would be nice.

Saw us lose both Vs Derby and Portsmouth under Mowbray, but wouldn't be able to make it this year. Maybe I'm bad luck...

24
Are you assuming we sell Mowatt and Kipre or are they out of contract?

They are out of contract

25
https://fbref.com/en/players/e26a9a17/Josh-Flint

The kind of player we should be looking at.

He's English so no need to worry about work permits, but he's played over 3000 minutes in the Eredivisie and is 23, can play centre back and left back. He's out of contract in the summer.

Not saying we should specifically sign him, but the type of player we should be looking at.

I’d def add in the Croatian, Bulgarian and all the other Eastern European nations

Find some absolute crackers there

Work permit rules make life slightly harder but as you say, there are gems to be found. They also introduced a rule I don't fully grasp which basically says if you have plenty of British/English players already, you can bring in a foreign player without jumping through all the usual work permit hoops

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