Author Topic: Under 23's / Academy Thread  (Read 640082 times)

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #250 on: January 15, 2014, 10:23:35 PM »
The academy needs an overhaul, they should get someone with a proven track record at a decent academy, you look at the coaches we've had for our academy and none of them really have any grounding in it. Myabe even look abroad to see where we're going wrong and getting the academy playing a decent style.

3m a year is a huge investment, you realistically have to be getting players out the academy regularly, but after Berahino there doesn't appear to be any names cropping up. Particularly concerning is none of them are even getting decent loans, at best to relegation strugglers in league one, so there's not much hope for the current crop.

Doesn't help that we lose our very best of course, and I still think the academy isn't worth the minimum 3m we put into it annually. I guess Berahino looks to be a good find but I imagine our academies run at a huge loss over these 10 years. Only Wood has actually gone on to be sold for more than a nominal fee.
Well it doesn't help when one or two of the betters ones are plucked by Chelsea / Liverpool. We need a bit of patience at the moment, it was only under Ashworth that we started a full professionally run academy system. It takes time for players to benefit from that system. We also can't really be expecting more than 1 possibly 2 to break through given the standard of the premier league now and the ease of bringing in foreign players in. Berahino could easily have a £15m buyout clause and who knows we may end up getting offered more than that if he progresses well in the next 18 months or so.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #251 on: January 15, 2014, 10:58:38 PM »
Adil Nabi, Donervan Daniels, Kemar Roofe and Liam o Neil are names that spring to mind along with the couple we lost to LFC and CFC. It's  coming of age as a project. Why do people need to be negative?

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #252 on: January 16, 2014, 08:33:35 AM »
On a (slightly) related note, at the time of the Izzy Brown furore, the talk was Albion were taking it to tribunal rather than accept the standard EPPP set fee.

Does anyone know the outcome of that? What fee did it end up as?

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #253 on: January 16, 2014, 09:54:11 AM »
On a (slightly) related note, at the time of the Izzy Brown furore, the talk was Albion were taking it to tribunal rather than accept the standard EPPP set fee.

Does anyone know the outcome of that? What fee did it end up as?

Does seem to have gone quiet on this one.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #254 on: January 16, 2014, 12:17:48 PM »
On a (slightly) related note, at the time of the Izzy Brown furore, the talk was Albion were taking it to tribunal rather than accept the standard EPPP set fee.

Does anyone know the outcome of that? What fee did it end up as?

Not entirely sure if it has been sorted out yet but there was never going to be a standard EPPP set fee for Izzy as he had agreed a scholarship with Albion when he turned 16. We will still end up getting peanuts for the lad. If the tribunal has happened or the clubs agreed a fee beforhand then I don't think the result has been made public.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #255 on: January 16, 2014, 08:04:58 PM »
Adil Nabi, Donervan Daniels, Kemar Roofe and Liam O'Neil are names that spring to mind along with the couple we lost to LFC and CFC. It's  coming of age as a project. Why do people need to be negative?

It's called asking a fair question Mike. If you perceive asking fair questions of something to be a case of "being negative" then a discussion forum isn't for you. Why shouldn't it be raised? If you don't ask questions, nothing gets improved.

I don't think those four names are going to make our first team really. Donervan Daniels is 20 and has just been released back to us after failing to get much game time at Gillingham at the bottom end of league 1. Keemar Roofe is 21 now and is still playing for a mid table league 2 team while Liam O'Neil turns 21 in the summer and has yet to get a loan move anywhere or near our first team.

If you contrast that with the development of other players, we have signed players at 21 such as Darren Carter, Richard Chaplow and Joe Mattock who have been capable of playing championship football at that age but have never been good enough to reach the top level. For this reason, I would say it is unlikely that Roofe, Daniels and O'Neil will break into our team if we stay in the top flight (that's not to say they can't be late developers elsewhere with hard work). I hope Nabi can come through but his injuries may well curtail his development - he turns 20 next month himself and hasn't even got close to the first team picture yet.

Looking further down the academy levels, there seems to be very little buzz about the players we have available to us, although we have been unfortunate to lose our best players like Brown, Sinclair and Dhanda but beyond those 3 there does not seem to be much left in the academy that looks like it is going to make it into the first team any time soon. That should raise some questions as these players will have spent their entire careers in our academy structure as some would have been 7 or 8 when we got the academy status.

There is still time to wait, but if we don't start to see results soon then the club may need to start analysing what is going wrong and what needs to be improved. At the moment we are producing a number of players capable of playing league 1, league 2 and conference football, but  so far only the 1 in 10 years capable of playing premier league football.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #256 on: January 16, 2014, 08:39:49 PM »
Adil Nabi, Donervan Daniels, Kemar Roofe and Liam o Neil are names that spring to mind along with the couple we lost to LFC and CFC. It's  coming of age as a project. Why do people need to be negative?
Gayle and Garmston also possible - Gayle came on sub against Newport in the capital 1.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #257 on: January 16, 2014, 08:40:48 PM »
Jonathan Leko(England) and Tyler Roberts(Wales) looked decent in the Victory Shield earlier in the season, and when I saw Leko at Hereford in pre-season he was very good. I know it's the youth cup but is that mostly under 18's? I know Leko is the same age as the lad Dhanda that we lost to Liverpool, so perhaps this year came just one too soon for him.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #258 on: January 16, 2014, 08:58:29 PM »


There is still time to wait, but if we don't start to see results soon then the club may need to start analysing what is going wrong and what needs to be improved. At the moment we are producing a number of players capable of playing league 1, league 2 and conference football, but  so far only the 1 in 10 years capable of playing premier league football.

The PL is a very strong league. The fact is that to be an impact player nowadays in the PL you need world class talent and that simply is not something you can teach. You can hone it if it is there but you can't create it if it isn't there to start with. That is the simple reason we lost Sinclair, Dhanda and Brown, they had the talent and the potential.

I think that four or five like that in the system, if you add Berahino, is what you can expect in terms of cutting edge talent at one single club that doesn't outright buy their talent. For a club like us it is a disaster to have our real talent poached for nothing because such talent is so rare and so hard to replace.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #259 on: January 16, 2014, 09:34:47 PM »
It's called asking a fair question Mike. If you perceive asking fair questions of something to be a case of "being negative" then a discussion forum isn't for you. Why shouldn't it be raised? If you don't ask questions, nothing gets improved.

I don't think those four names are going to make our first team really. Donervan Daniels is 20 and has just been released back to us after failing to get much game time at Gillingham at the bottom end of league 1. Keemar Roofe is 21 now and is still playing for a mid table league 2 team while Liam O'Neil turns 21 in the summer and has yet to get a loan move anywhere or near our first team.

If you contrast that with the development of other players, we have signed players at 21 such as Darren Carter, Richard Chaplow and Joe Mattock who have been capable of playing championship football at that age but have never been good enough to reach the top level. For this reason, I would say it is unlikely that Roofe, Daniels and O'Neil will break into our team if we stay in the top flight (that's not to say they can't be late developers elsewhere with hard work). I hope Nabi can come through but his injuries may well curtail his development - he turns 20 next month himself and hasn't even got close to the first team picture yet.

Looking further down the academy levels, there seems to be very little buzz about the players we have available to us, although we have been unfortunate to lose our best players like Brown, Sinclair and Dhanda but beyond those 3 there does not seem to be much left in the academy that looks like it is going to make it into the first team any time soon. That should raise some questions as these players will have spent their entire careers in our academy structure as some would have been 7 or 8 when we got the academy status.

There is still time to wait, but if we don't start to see results soon then the club may need to start analysing what is going wrong and what needs to be improved. At the moment we are producing a number of players capable of playing league 1, league 2 and conference football, but  so far only the 1 in 10 years capable of playing premier league football.

Fair point but I'm just fed up of the general negativity on this site at the moment. At a time when this club is more auccessful than at any time in the last 30+ years I read post after post by fans slating the chairman, the sporting director, 2/3 of the players and by 10pm on Monday probadly the new head coach. Maybe I snapped at the wrong post but seriously people need to realise what we've got here and try to enjoy it.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #260 on: January 16, 2014, 11:14:44 PM »
The PL is a very strong league. The fact is that to be an impact player nowadays in the PL you need world class talent and that simply is not something you can teach. You can hone it if it is there but you can't create it if it isn't there to start with. That is the simple reason we lost Sinclair, Dhanda and Brown, they had the talent and the potential.

I think that four or five like that in the system, if you add Berahino, is what you can expect in terms of cutting edge talent at one single club that doesn't outright buy their talent. For a club like us it is a disaster to have our real talent poached for nothing because such talent is so rare and so hard to replace.

I agree with bits but not other. I do not think it is correct that you can not teach talent. Are we really saying that Spanish kids and Argentinian kids are just born with the natural talent while English kids just naturally aren't good enough? Or is it something to do with coaching? While a lot of it will come down to the culture of English football and the poor coaching kids during there very early development years, there is still a lot that can be gained by good coaching from the ages of 8 up to 13 or 14. After that I would start to agree that if they don't have it they probably never will, but the majority of "talent" is learned, and not natural (i'm not saying every but is, for instance Ajax coaches who know their stuff have picked out 4 areas they personally see as being the hardest to actually coach into a player who has not got it but you get my drift).

You my have a point on the second paragraph though. Maybe when you are brining through the likes of Brown, Sinclair and Dhanda, that is all you can really expect from an age group in an academy like ours. I do feel some clubs such as Southampton and Villa seem to produce 1 first team player from every age group but I suppose outstanding players are always going to be quite rare and our job is not being made easier by the very negative methods employed by the big clubs that can only be harming the national game of pooling the b est youngsters into structures they will struggle to adapt from and therefore could stagger their development.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #261 on: January 17, 2014, 09:07:58 AM »
Important to remember that the academies at Southampton and Villa have been fully developed for longer than ours. It will be easier to judge the success of ours in 5 - 10 years time.
We have seen Thorne and Berahino emerge in the past two seasons.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #262 on: January 20, 2014, 12:28:29 PM »
Under 21's at home to Leicester today 1pm kick off behind closed doors at the training ground, squad is

ALBION (from): Atkinson, Birch, L Daniels, D Daniels, Francis, Gayle, Howkins, A Jones, C Jones, S Nabi, O’Neil, O’Sullivan, Rose, Thorne, Ward, Wright.   
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #263 on: January 20, 2014, 12:33:57 PM »
Is Thorne now ready for first team action after his injury problems?

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #264 on: January 20, 2014, 12:41:42 PM »
Is Thorne now ready for first team action after his injury problems?

I think he's been on loan at Watford and playing well.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #265 on: January 20, 2014, 12:56:06 PM »
Jonathan Leko(England) and Tyler Roberts(Wales) looked decent in the Victory Shield earlier in the season, and when I saw Leko at Hereford in pre-season he was very good. I know it's the youth cup but is that mostly under 18's? I know Leko is the same age as the lad Dhanda that we lost to Liverpool, so perhaps this year came just one too soon for him.

Leko is only 15. Plays mainly for the Under 16's although he has been involved with the Under 18s on a couple of times.

I like the look of Tyler, hes a good striker and can hold the ball up well. Ive been to see the Under 16s play 3 times now and hes scored in every game.

The keeper looks good aswell and is good at catching.
The right back for the Under 16s also looks good, little blonde lad.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #266 on: January 20, 2014, 11:50:31 PM »
ALBION suffered a 2-1 defeat by Leicester in the Barclays U21 Premier League at the club's training ground this afternoon.

Wes Atkinson (pictured) equalised for the Baggies late in the first half but the visitors fought back to all three points after the interval.

ALBION: L Daniels; Gayle, Atkinson, Thorne, D Daniels, O'Neil, Francis (Wright), Birch, A Jones, O'Sullivan, Ward (S Nabi). Subs not used: Rose (gk); C Jones, Howkins.


Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-u21-1-leicester-u21-2-1306108.aspx#AVfelmxA38ZyGMUv.99
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #267 on: February 16, 2014, 09:13:42 PM »
So it sounds as though Roofe, Donervorn Daniels + Wes Atkinson have gone on the training trip to Spain.
I don't know much about Atkinson - is he a fullback ?
I guess it gives Pepe a good chance to have a look at a couple, think its decision time soon as to whether Roofe gets a new deal. Not sure if the same applies to the other two ?
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #268 on: February 27, 2014, 09:06:00 PM »
Just heard the next U21 game against the Wolves has been switched from the Hawthorns to the Ricoh Arena, Coventry, next Monday night 7.00pm KO.

The Ricoh Arena, surely not
why not a local non league club if they want to protect the Hawthorns ?

Is any football played at the Ricoh any more ?

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #269 on: February 28, 2014, 07:02:25 PM »
Just heard the next U21 game against the Wolves has been switched from the Hawthorns to the Ricoh Arena, Coventry, next Monday night 7.00pm KO.

The Ricoh Arena, surely not
why not a local non league club if they want to protect the Hawthorns ?

Is any football played at the Ricoh any more ?
That's kind of the point, Ricoh's cheap and available at short(ish) notice.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #270 on: February 28, 2014, 07:50:12 PM »
Just heard the next U21 game against the Wolves has been switched from the Hawthorns to the Ricoh Arena, Coventry, next Monday night 7.00pm KO.

The Ricoh Arena, surely not
why not a local non league club if they want to protect the Hawthorns ?

Is any football played at the Ricoh any more ?

Requirement of that league to play a certain number of games in a stadium environment.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #271 on: February 28, 2014, 08:58:38 PM »
Liam O'Neil?@LiamONeil31·4h
Nice to of been offered a new contract at West Brom

Another one of the younger lads signing up by the looks of it. Not sure what age category he falls into? Same as Berahino possibly?

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #272 on: February 28, 2014, 09:13:29 PM »
Liam O'Neil?@LiamONeil31·4h
Nice to of been offered a new contract at West Brom

Another one of the younger lads signing up by the looks of it. Not sure what age category he falls into? Same as Berahino possibly?
He's in the 20-21 ball park, I also saw on another forum (new606?) that Danny Barrow's been given/offered a one year contract.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #273 on: February 28, 2014, 10:20:55 PM »
He's in the 20-21 ball park, I also saw on another forum (new606?) that Danny Barrow's been given/offered a one year contract.
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/liam-oneil/leistungsdaten/spieler_141349.html
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #274 on: March 03, 2014, 01:54:32 PM »
Anyone got the teams for tonight yet?
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