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West Bromwich Albion FC Forums => West Bromwich Albion FC => Topic started by: iwastherein68 on August 29, 2018, 12:23:09 AM
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For me Rekeem Harper, is the best of our current crop of young prospects. I have watched him in the two league cup games, and I think he is ready to make a claim for a start in the first team. He is comfortable on the ball, passes it well, looks to get forward, and is quite strong in the challenge.
Tonight alongside Gareth Barry I thought he was excellent, and if he continues to be overlooked for at least a place on the bench, for the likes of Morrison and Brunt and Barry then we may just as well abandon the academy.Sam Field, Kyle Edwards, Olly Burke and Jonathan Leko, are other young players who are being held back by the persistence of playing the old guard. I am concerned that because our start to the season has so far been a somewhat stuttering one, that Darren Moore will not risk our youngsters.
I am convinced that there is no risk in giving Rekeem Harper, Chris Brunt's place in the team, because he will do a better job partnering Livermore.
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For me Rakeem Harper, is the best of our current crop of young prospects. I have watched him in the two league cup games, and I think he is ready to make a claim for a start in the first team. He is comfortable on the ball, passes it well, looks to get forward, and is quite strong in the challenge.
Tonight alongside Gareth Barry I thought he was excellent, and if he continues to be overlooked for at least a place on the bench, for the likes of Morrison and Brunt and Barry then we may just as well abandon the academy.Sam Field, Kyle Edwards, Olly Burke and Jonathan Leko, are other young players who are being held back by the persistence of playing the old guard. I am concerned that because our start to the season has so far been a somewhat stuttering one, that Darren Moore will not risk our youngsters.
I am convinced that there is no risk in giving Rakeem Harper, Chris Brunt's place in the team, because he will do a better job partnering Livermore.
Agree on Harper. I would say Moore seems like he is trying to blood the youngsters (more than our previous manager in the league cup). I think its a risk to throw them in but I would give Harper or Field a go ahead of Brunt. The other lads have more obstacles in front of them in the first team. Leko and Edwards are going to find it tough with Barnes and Phillips who are way ahead of them at the moment.
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Harper would be livermores replacement for me. Similar mould of player.
Field would be in for Brunt.
Nice to think the likes of these two and leko and Edwards could actually all be main stays of the future.
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Agree on Harper, really good prospect and should be starting for me.
Edwards isn't far away.
Field is a starter.
Leko has a lot to learn. It's a team game and you don't always need another step over. Needs to be more aware and learn when to lay the ball off.
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The only thing I would say about Harper is that he needs to find his role. His natural fit seems to be a defensive midfielder but last night Barry did most of the defensive work, making the last minute tackles whereas Harper was the player who covered more ground and started our attacks with some great passing.
Whether his forward play is good enough to develop him into a Paul Pogba style player, I don't know, butnif he could add the more defensive side to his game then he could be the natural reppacement for Livermore.
Whatever his role, he is worth a chance in our current formation as he seemed to fit very well into the role as one of the 2 deep lyind central midfielders.
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I feel he has looked very good against two lower league outfits, but ultimately you can only play what's in front of you. I said in another thread that I would not be adverse to seeing us try Barry and Harper together in the league, it is the ultimate acid test for the young lad, but with Barry alongside him he could guide him through the game.
I do feel he is, as many have said, the most advanced of our current crop of youngsters and will forge a very successful career for himself, hopefully with us.
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I feel he has looked very good against two lower league outfits, but ultimately you can only play what's in front of you. I said in another thread that I would not be adverse to seeing us try Barry and Harper together in the league, it is the ultimate acid test for the young lad, but with Barry alongside him he could guide him through the game.
I do feel he is, as many have said, the most advanced of our current crop of youngsters and will forge a very successful career for himself, hopefully with us.
He's decent but he has not created one chance in either game I've seen him play. He's not the type of midfielder we need right now. He doesn't have vision and all his passing is safe. The only one he could theoretically replace is Livermore but Livermore is ahead of him at the moment. Harper isn't the most advanced of our youngsters Field is which will be reflected when Field once again makes the bench on Saturday ahead of Harper as he always has done when fit.
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He's decent but he has not created one chance in either game I've seen him play. He's not the type of midfielder we need right now. He doesn't have vision and all his passing is safe. The only one he could theoretically replace is Livermore but Livermore is ahead of him at the moment. Harper isn't the most advanced of our youngsters Field is which will be reflected when Field once again makes the bench on Saturday ahead of Harper as he always has done when fit.
Can't disagree on Field, only omitted him as I do not really see him in the same bracket as the likes of Leko, Edwards, Harper et al, I see Field as a senior pro now which of course belies his years but that is how highly I rate the lad.
On Harper not creating a clear chance, I feel that is a tad harsh, his use of the ball to supply those who are in the team to do precisely that was spot on in my opinion.
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Can't disagree on Field, only omitted him as I do not really see him in the same bracket as the likes of Leko, Edwards, Harper et al, I see Field as a senior pro now which of course belies his years but that is how highly I rate the lad.
On Harper not creating a clear chance, I feel that is a tad harsh, his use of the ball to supply those who are in the team to do precisely that was spot on in my opinion.
If we class Field as a senior pro then I agree with you on Harper being the best of the crop of academy kids. Edwards for me is the least advanced and Leko is full of twists and turns and step overs but as someone posted yesterday it's more style than substance with him at the moment.
I do like Harper, think he has a bright future ahead of him.
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Harper provided the out ball for Burke, Leko and Edwards a few times last night. It was the front 3's great breaks that did most of the work, but Harper's quick balls out were the foundation. Nothing wrong with sensible, no show boaty moves. He provided a great link.
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As an aside, out of respect for the lad, is there any chance that his name could be spelt correctly on the thread title?
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As an aside, out of respect for the lad, is there any chance that his name could be spelt correctly on the thread title?
Done the subjects but I ain't editing all the individual posts :D
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Done the subjects but I ain't editing all the individual posts :D
Lazy git ;D
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Done the subjects but I ain't editing all the individual posts :D
Dereliction of duty right there ;D
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When I've seen him before he always seemed a bit lightweight, but he's impressed me against Luton and Mansfield. Granted that's not exactly stellar opposition, but he's done well.
Would be interesting to see him and Field in the middle together down the line.
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When I've seen him before he always seemed a bit lightweight, but he's impressed me against Luton and Mansfield. Granted that's not exactly stellar opposition, but he's done well.
Would be interesting to see him and Field in the middle together down the line.
Lightweight? The guy is a tank.
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Lightweight? The guy is a tank.
Yeah, I think he's filled out recently.
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Thought he was superb for majority of last night.
Actually think this lad could be the best of the bunch. Has a touch of coolness about him and leadership wise he isn’t afraid to bark orders and calm things down when needed.
Maybe not against better opposition such as Saturday but certainly deserves gametime against lesser opponents in the league.
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I fully understand that DM is not going to throw several of the talented youngsters into the team at the same time. However, given the less than impressive performances from the current two central midfielders it is surely worth the risk of giving Harper a full game in a league match? This is the only way to see if he is ready for the rigours of the championship.
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I just looked at the fixtures to see when would be a good opportunity to throw a couple of kids in, simply, there is no obvious fixture in the next few weeks, so I would give the incumbents one last chance against Stoke and if it goes badly the boys (field and probably harper) should be given a run of 4-5 games minimum.
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I think Harper has been MoM in both the league cup games. The least he deserves is a place on the bench with a view to giving him 30 minutes if we are looking comfortable in a game.
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Named in a incredibly talented England under 19 squad (to put things into perspective, Oliver Skipp who's probably Spurs' highest rated talent in their academy and got plenty of game time with their seniors in pre-season didn't make this squad and he's also a central midfielder).
The only way you learn is by playing, he should be rotating in and out the side this year. No one is a perfect central midfielder at 18. But if we can't offer games in this situation, lacking depth in central midfield, with the incumbants starting, what can we offer to our youth players?
We're not talking people with no talent here. He, and Field for that matter are considered amongst the best their age in the country. Why would someone like Morgan Rogers (who can join pretty much any club he wishes) stay on with us if we can't offer games? Because we're not offering much else.
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Named in a incredibly talented England under 19 squad (to put things into perspective, Oliver Skipp who's probably Spurs' highest rated talent in their academy and got plenty of game time with their seniors in pre-season didn't make this squad and he's also a central midfielder).
The only way you learn is by playing, he should be rotating in and out the side this year. No one is a perfect central midfielder at 18. But if we can't offer games in this situation, lacking depth in central midfield, with the incumbants starting, what can we offer to our youth players?
We're not talking people with no talent here. He, and Field for that matter are considered amongst the best their age in the country. Why would someone like Morgan Rogers (who can join pretty much any club he wishes) stay on with us if we can't offer games? Because we're not offering much else.
Yep, given that our experienced CM options are far from stand-out class at this level, Harper and Field should be given plenty of opportunities. It's not the massive risk that some seem to treat it as.
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Also think he looks a real talent and it’s great to see him getting more game time. I suppose one thing about dropping to the championship means more games and less reliance on staying up at all costs like in the prem, meaning the youngsters should see more game time as the season progresses.
As an aside I also thought Edwards has looked great in the games I’ve seen him too.
I think big dave’s previous position in the academy staff team and being the loan manager will help us see more of the younger players getting a chance
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I've mentioned elsewhere but it's a bit concerning that his contract is up at the end of the season. Wonder if there have been talks about an extension, it's needed if not.
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Nowhere to be seen again today. Not a gambler is he our Darren? Don't expect to see any Hope's, Stathams, Bombers, Hartfords, Bennetts or Robertsons coming through any time soon.
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Nowhere to be seen again today. Not a gambler is he our Darren? Don't expect to see any Hope's, Stathams, Bombers, Hartfords, Bennetts or Robertsons coming through any time soon.
Wasnt needed today, plenty of games left this season for him to get involved in
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Nowhere to be seen again today. Not a gambler is he our Darren? Don't expect to see any Hope's, Stathams, Bombers, Hartfords, Bennetts or Robertsons coming through any time soon.
I'm sure his time will come. But any manager would find it difficult to leave an experienced pro like Barry off the bench....as a fan I would love to see him play but Darren Moore is manager first and fore. I hope we keep the same team for the next round of the CC then we will get an idea of how good the kids can really be.
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I’m sure these youngsters will get some time against the lesser teams during the season, especially as the build up of games takes its toll. Stoke was a potential 6 pointer come the end of the season and a good start to the season is crucial in this league to build momentum. Can’t blame Darren Moore for putting his strongest team out whilst their all fairly fresh
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Hard to criticise a head coach who's bobbing along with a 57.1â„… win ratio
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I think its their fitness holding them back at this stage. Can't have players blowing out their backside at 60-70mins. They need to do the full 90 at optimum fitness.
Harper is only 18. A bit young to be thrwoing him in at centre midfield vs Stoke. He's got all the talent, bit of work on his off the ball game and adapting to the physique of the mens game and he'll be in.
In Moore we trust, he's the right man to develop him.
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I think its their fitness holding them back at this stage. Can't have players blowing out their backside at 60-70mins. They need to do the full 90 at optimum fitness.
Harper is only 18. A bit young to be thrwoing him in at centre midfield vs Stoke. He's got all the talent, bit of work on his off the ball game and adapting to the physique of the mens game and he'll be in.
In Moore we trust, he's the right man to develop him.
Truth of the matter is until someone cops an injury or suspension ,Darren is going to stick with the old guard.
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Im not sure I agree with the posts saying we are not going to see youth whilst Moore is here, the League Cup games have been a breathe of fresh air compared to previous managers.
It wasnt just Pulis who had an obsession with not giving youth a chance in competitions.
I do agree though with the post that says we will have to wait until injuries or suspensions before those who played in those cup games get a chance when it comes to league football.
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Hard to criticise a head coach who's bobbing along with a 57.1â„… win ratio
We’re in the second division, currently 7th which isn’t good enough. The win percentage isn’t good enough. Else we’d be in the top two.
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I agree that yesterday wasn’t the time, but we shouldn’t wait for injuries and suspensions either as that’s throwing them in the deep end.
5-1 up vs QPR was the time. Hopefully there will be games in the next few weeks where they can get time in a confident side playing with a comfortable cushion.
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I keep banging on about it , but if this kid is not ready to get in this bloody team, than after 64 years of supporting this team, I have never seen a player. We are so poor in midfield, playing Rekeem is a no lose situation.
Our manager does not even pick him in the squad, absolutely disgraceful.
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I keep banging on about it , but if this kid is not ready to get in this bloody team, than after 64 years of supporting this team, I have never seen a player. We are so poor in midfield, playing Rekeem is a no lose situation.
Our manager does not even pick him in the squad, absolutely disgraceful.
he'll get pushed further down the picking order now Hoolahan has signed. this will be Moore's downfall not trying the youngsters like Harper & Field, tonight's match for instance where Brunt and Livermore had zero impact or influence on the game but guaranteed starters next week.
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For a bloke who was in charge of youth development he really doesn't trust the kids and that's a shame.
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he'll get pushed further down the picking order now Hoolahan has signed. this will be Moore's downfall not trying the youngsters like Harper & Field, tonight's match for instance where Brunt and Livermore had zero impact or influence on the game but guaranteed starters next week.
Think it is beyond having no impact - it is actually detrimental to shape and possession and therefore negative impact. Simply don't see how trying Harper in there could be any worse - and if Darren Moore is concerned he could always play the 'experienced' head of Barry alongside to help his development...
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Yes give him a go asap.
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How could he not bring him on against QPR second half? Ideal opportunity. Deserves to be at least on the bench. 7 games into the season now, 20th worst defensive record in the league which is shocking, not a single clean sheet, outside the play-offs by 5pm today, average points return.
It's not good enough so far. Should have won last night, beat Boltin and got a point at Boro. Moore has lots of options but won't use any of then. What's the point having a squad.
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How could he not bring him on against QPR second half? Ideal opportunity. Deserves to be at least on the bench. 7 games into the season now, 20th worst defensive record in the league which is shocking, not a single clean sheet, outside the play-offs by 5pm today, average points return.
It's not good enough so far. Should have won last night, beat Boltin and got a point at Boro. Moore has lots of options but won't use any of then. What's the point having a squad.
Because he wasn't on the bench. ;D
Think he does deserve a place on the bench along with Field and Edwards.
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Because he wasn't on the bench. ;D
Think he does deserve a place on the bench along with Field and Edwards.
I think a concern for me is that most games we are seeing only one kid on the bench and thats because we have to have at least one in the matchday squad.
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I'd put Harper on the bench. If anything happens to Livermore, Harper is the ideal type of player to replace him.
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I think a concern for me is that most games we are seeing only one kid on the bench and thats because we have to have at least one in the matchday squad.
When did the EFL change the rules about matchday squad age criteria ? ;)
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I'd put Harper on the bench. If anything happens to Livermore, Harper is the ideal type of player to replace him. We'd all be delighted?
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I'd put Harper on the bench.
Personally, I'd put him on the pitch. Admittedly that view is based on a small sample of games that I've seen him play in (Cup games and U23's), but his physical input, technical ability and 'legs' would improve the team.
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When did the EFL change the rules about matchday squad age criteria ? ;)
2017 ;)
https://www.footballtradedirectory.com/efl-clubs-agree-to-matchday-squad-rule-change
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2017 ;)
https://www.footballtradedirectory.com/efl-clubs-agree-to-matchday-squad-rule-change
Missed that. But no doubt you will understand that I had my focus on a loftier league, when this politically correct change was made. :D
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Missed that. But no doubt you will understand that I had my focus on a loftier league, when this politically correct change was made. :D
To be honest I had no idea until a few weeks ago when I heard someone mention it
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So we are meant to be negotiating a new deal with Harper which seems overdue to me....has he stalled on earlier negotiations ?
I wonder what he makes of the very limited opportunities given to any of our youngsters.
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So we are meant to be negotiating a new deal with Harper which seems overdue to me....has he stalled on earlier negotiations ?
I wonder what he makes of the very limited opportunities given to any of our youngsters.
opened negotiations about 10 days ago
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/11/20/west-brom-keen-to-tie-rekeem-harper-down-to-new-contract/
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opened negotiations about 10 days ago
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/11/20/west-brom-keen-to-tie-rekeem-harper-down-to-new-contract/
Yeah, given that his contract is up in the summer, it seems to have been left relatively late in the day compared to Field who has had a couple of contract extensions well in advance of entering the final year of his contracts.
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Said it in the after match thread and say it after every game I see him play, he looks a real talent and oozes composure and confidence for a youngster. May see him slot in the first team whilst Livermore is suspended on the back of another excellent performance today. Man of the match for me
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Agree with the above, MOTM for me today without a doubt.
He looked strong, energetic, good on the ball. Id like to see him given more first team chances after watching him today.
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Agree with the above, MOTM for me today without a doubt.
He looked strong, energetic, good on the ball. Id like to see him given more first team chances after watching him today.
Yep, doesn’t seem to tire and I’m never nervous when he had the ball which says a lot. He’s not scared to put his foot in either
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If he doesn't replace Livermore then when will the kid get a chance in a league match.
The perfect foil to play alongside Barry or Brunt.
Playing Barry and Brunt v Norwich would be mad.
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Didn't catch most of the game, but from what I saw, Harper looks like the pick of our youngsters. Looks very dynamic and powerful on the ball. Definitely adds pace to the heart of the midfield and able to bring the ball forward quickly.
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If he doesn't replace Livermore then when will the kid get a chance in a league match.
The perfect foil to play alongside Barry or Brunt.
Playing Barry and Brunt v Norwich would be mad.
Correct the most natural replacement for Livermore. I would be happy with either him or field getting a go. Man of the match today for me.
We. We'd to get him to sign a new contract he's on a free come July
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Correct the most natural replacement for Livermore. I would be happy with either him or field getting a go. Man of the match today for me.
We. We'd to get him to sign a new contract he's on a free come July
Field isn't the right type of player to replace Livermore for Norwich. Harper is. I would start him.
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Field isn't the right type of player to replace Livermore for Norwich. Harper is. I would start him.
Field more akin to Barry or Brunt. Which is why he hasn't got much game time.
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Harper looks like he has a change of pace whereas Field is more one paced. I stand by my earlier comments on Field. He is more of a defensive player, whereas Harper can get past his man and bring the ball forward at pace.
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To be honest I could make a case for all three of Field, Harper and Edwards being our midfield three in 2-3 years time. I imagine they complement each other well.
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To be honest I could make a case for all three of Field, Harper and Edwards being our midfield three in 2-3 years time. I imagine they complement each other well.
What do you think Edwards position is? I ask this because I've seen him play in a few positions and I'm not sure which suits him best.
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Looked really good today, composed on the ball and happy to drive forward to start or continue attacking moves. Would not be upset at all to see him in the starting 11 with Livermore suspended at the moment!
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How long have we all been screaming out for a big, powerful, quick, box-to-box midfielder? We've already got one on our books. He may or may not be ready to play in the Championship but it's criminal that he hasn't even been given the chance. He's a really good forward passer from what I've seen as well, always seems to pick out good through balls.
We've seen that Barry-Livermore-Phillips is by far our most balanced midfield, I think Harper is the most natural replacement for Livermore and deserves a chance in his absence. Neither Brunt, Morrison or Field have the energy or physicality that Livermore gives us.
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On that showing alone he's a better footballer than Livermore will ever be.
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How long have we all been screaming out for a big, powerful, quick, box-to-box midfielder? We've already got one on our books. He may or may not be ready to play in the Championship but it's criminal that he hasn't even been given the chance. He's a really good forward passer from what I've seen as well, always seems to pick out good through balls.
We've seen that Barry-Livermore-Phillips is by far our most balanced midfield, I think Harper is the most natural replacement for Livermore and deserves a chance in his absence. Neither Brunt, Morrison or Field have the energy or physicality that Livermore gives us.
Cracking post. No reason why Harper couldn’t have been drafted in v Sheffield Wed and Blackburn, instead we went with a slow static midfield.
People are talking about buying in Jan well this guy hasn’t been given enough exposure. We are all agreed that Field is a bit short at present.
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I thought to myself earlier on in the season after the Carbaro cup games that he is a quality young prospect that deserves a go in the first team, was a class above again today.
Certainly deserves to play against Norwich with Livermore suspended, but I fear Big Dave will go with Brunt (especially seeing as he also had a good game today) which is never a bad thing of course, but will jusitify Big Dave persisting with Brunt in CMF.
This should be our Midfield 3 v Norwich: Barry, Harper and Phillips, but we all know it will end up being Barry, Brunt and Phillips.
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I'm very concerned he is out of contract in the summer, how have we left it this late? Clearly should have been playing a lot more as well. Wouldn't blame him if he moves on in the summer, the club have to try to get him to sign a new deal asap.
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I have been saying it all season. Rekeem is the real deal . Leko , Edwards, and Field can also make the grade, certainly at this level.
Just bear in mind that these lads cannot be match fit either, and Rekeem has splinters in his backside from sitting and watching players inferior to himself week in week out.
I just hope that he signs a new contract with us. I fully expect him to be an onlooker again next week. Disgraceful if he is
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What do you think Edwards position is? I ask this because I've seen him play in a few positions and I'm not sure which suits him best.
Field replaced Barry. Harper replaces Livermore. Edwards replaces Phillips.
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Field replaced Barry. Harper replaces Livermore. Edwards replaces Phillips.
Yes yes and yes
Brunt does not need to be near the starting eleven now
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Good player MOTM looked lively alongside Sako
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I'm very concerned he is out of contract in the summer, how have we left it this late? Clearly should have been playing a lot more as well. Wouldn't blame him if he moves on in the summer, the club have to try to get him to sign a new deal asap.
This a big concern - coupled with his lack of game time it wouldn't be a surprise to see him walk away on a free. There will be no shortage of sides keen to take him. Mismanagement of good academy prospects seems to be a long-term issue here.
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This a big concern - coupled with his lack of game time it wouldn't be a surprise to see him walk away on a free. There will be no shortage of sides keen to take him. Mismanagement of good academy prospects seems to be a long-term issue here.
Agreed, a big concern of we carelessly lose another talent.
Looked very good today, especially second half. Combines both a surprising burst of pace with power which Wigan struggled with.
NEEDS GAME TIME !!
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This was the season to bring these kids through. If they don't get given the chance in the championship they won't get it in the Prem. Rather than play these talented youngsters we are opting for short term fixes like Barry, Hoolahan, Mears and to a lesser extent Brunt and Morrison.
Suspect it's a decision coming from the top though.
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Harper was excellent yesterday and should start against Norwich.
Unfortunately he will not replace Livermore - it'll be either Morrison or Brunt alongside Barry and Phillips
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This was the season to bring these kids through. If they don't get given the chance in the championship they won't get it in the Prem. Rather than play these talented youngsters we are opting for short term fixes like Barry, Hoolahan, Mears and to a lesser extent Brunt and Morrison.
Suspect it's a decision coming from the top though.
Harper is 19 in March. I can think of plenty of fine players starting their careers at 17 such as Bale, Giggs, Fowler, Owen, Lee Sharpe. There’s been matches this season where we’ve been hustled out of it midfield due to a lack of pace. 1 of Barry or Brunt should play, simple.
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This a big concern - coupled with his lack of game time it wouldn't be a surprise to see him walk away on a free. There will be no shortage of sides keen to take him. Mismanagement of good academy prospects seems to be a long-term issue here.
Very concerning. On back of yesterday we should be offering big pay rise and get him tied down urgently. To lose him on a free when young English talent sells for a premium would be downright stupid.
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Very concerning. On back of yesterday we should be offering big pay rise and get him tied down urgently. To lose him on a free when young English talent sells for a premium would be downright stupid.
I don't think money is the issue. If I were Rakeem, I'd want game time. On the strength of his performance yesterday, he should get a start against Norwich on Saturday.
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If he doesn't get game time now we'll only have ourselves to blame if he decides not to sign a new contract and move on elsewhere. He showed maturity, pace and creativity yesterday, all of which has been lacking in our midfield all too often this season. We can't keep relying on the front three, talented as they are, to supply the magic and get the points.
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Ever thought that maybe Rekeem is demanding too much money?
I know that was the problem with Roberts, he valued himself higher than the club were willing to pay.
Perhaps that’s why he’s not getting as much game time? Be an interesting couple of months for sure.
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Very possibly and to be honest I don't see this ending well for us.
I really hope I'm wrong though.
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I thought we sold Roberts to raise the funds needed to pay the loan fee for Sturridge.
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I thought we sold Roberts to raise the funds needed to pay the loan fee for Sturridge.
I thought he was asking for too much money and so we basically had no choice but to sell him
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Watching his interview he didn’t sound like he was wanting to jump ship, saying loved playing for this great club.
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If he does rate himself higher than the club think in value....Saturday might equalise things
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If it comes down to a choice between drawing up a new contract for Harper or extending Hoolihan's stay, it should be a no brainer in favour of Harper. Not that Hoolihan has done a bad job, but Harper's the future.
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If it comes down to a choice between drawing up a new contract for Harper or extending Hoolihan's stay, it should be a no brainer in favour of Harper. Not that Hoolihan has done a bad job, but Harper's the future.
I wouldn't have thought there was any link whatsoever
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I wouldn't have thought there was any link whatsoever
If Harper's opportunities in the first team or indeed money were to be involved, I could see a link.
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I thought he was asking for too much money and so we basically had no choice but to sell him
wasn’t Roberts asking for around 20k a week or something silly
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wasn’t Roberts asking for around 20k a week or something silly
I think it was something like that yeah
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Moore doesn't trust these youngsters in the league, which is a shame and will cost us in long run. Field, Leko and Harper should be first team regulars by now. Burke it seems has been given cold shoulder by coaching staff and that's why he's gone out on loan. Seems from the outside looking in that no matter how well these players perform Darren is too stubborn or afraid to use them.
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I liked the look of Harper alongside Barry in the earlier cup rounds and feel that they could work well together on Saturday if selected. They both had a poor game against Palace in the final round we were in, but the whole team did and we were still playing the ridiculous 5 at the back in that game as Darren got schooled by Roy so I find it hard to judge too harshly.
He was superb on Saturday against a poor Wigan side, so I would happily see a midfield three of Phillips, Harper and Barry on Saturday.
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Very strange set up against Palace that night with three centre halves, Mears and Townsend wide then Barry, Harper and Morrison in midfield with Hoolahan off Kanu up top. Barry, Morrison and Hoolahan were still building their fitness and although we kept the ball OK we did nothing with it. Barry was replaced by Brunt in one of three subs just after an hour and we looked even worse thereon. One of those nights to forget which can never be clawed back :-X .
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Watching his interview he didn’t sound like he was wanting to jump ship, saying loved playing for this great club.
Ben Foster said the same too.. I would never judge a footballer on their words.
Harper is a good player - with a promising future and the club needs to reward that accordingly.
quite frankly, if we do not get promoted this season he is a guaranteed a spot in the first team next year. His chance should we be promoted may be less likely.
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He was superb Saturday, and I'd love to see a team in the future based around him, Field, and Edwards. Field obviously sits deeper, and in time will dictate the play; Harper gets about, moves the ball well; Edwards is the more skilful, attacking number 10.
Hope we can keep hold of all three for a good few years.
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Harper (and Field) could already be playing in the championship if they moved. I see no reason he'd want to stay. If we go up they have even less chance of playing, and they only get cup games now.
The fact is no matter how well he plays, without experience, the other central midfielders will be preferred to him and Field. The club just isn't a club that uses its academy, it requires a specific mentality. Safety first has been the clubs mantra for years now.
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:D Big Dave...put this kid into the team...too good to leave out :D
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Can't argue with anything you have said today about the academy Dan. You do need to have a culture of using academy kids. Norwich do it, Palace do it, Southampton, Villa, Everton do it. We need to become one of those who do.
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I'm getting really frustrated seeing us being linked with McCarthy and Hayden to replace Livermore and compete for the central midfield roles.
Here we have a youngster of our own who, if he doesn't get a chance now, in the Championship and with senior players out, will never play a succession of league games for us.
It was only Wigan in the cup but he showed a fantastic amount of promise and added a real dynamism and bite to the midfield.
It's a real shame as this season was a real opportunity for our kids and DM, very surprisingly, seems totally unwilling to even give them time off the bench, preferring instead to rely on a heavy amount of experience.
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Well,perhaps the bre should hold up a sheet with his name on,to show the powers that be exactly how well he's thought of by the supporters.
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To be dropped after Livermore's ban, despite looking at home? Could be behind Livermore, Brunt and Morrison again?
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Whilst I agree that he is doing really well, I think we need to assess him after a few more games really. Did well today and looked very comfortable in the role but there is no reason why we cannot be looking for other options in midfield....
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He was steady. Not as good as last week but he was playing the Phillips role. He won't keep Matty out on that showing, he needed a really stellar performance to get himself ahead of Brunt Morrison and Livermore in the management thinking and he didn't provide it. That said I hope he starts next Monday at Bolton and puts in that performance. Anything that marginalises cloggers like Jake Livermore is good for the club.
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Thought he did well today, Wonderful to see some pace in our midfield, particularly bearing in mind he's not played much first-team football yet and his fitness levels probably aren't quite there. He certainly looks a good long-term prospect.
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Thought he did well today, Wonderful to see some pace in our midfield, particularly bearing in mind he's not played much first-team football yet and his fitness levels probably aren't quite there. He certainly looks a good long-term prospect.
Agreed I think we have a really good player here give him a good run in the team now and he will be streets ahead of Brunt and Morrison.
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A steady performance imo, but he's very young and hopefully he'll get better and better with more games. I think he got caught in possession on a couple of times, but he'll get used to being closed down quicker in the first team and when not to overplay.
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We need to agree a new contract with him ASAP. Be sick to see him playing against us next year.
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He was steady. Not as good as last week but he was playing the Phillips role. He won't keep Matty out on that showing, he needed a really stellar performance to get himself ahead of Brunt Morrison and Livermore in the management thinking and he didn't provide it. That said I hope he starts next Monday at Bolton and puts in that performance. Anything that marginalises cloggers like Jake Livermore is good for the club.
If he plays like he did on Sat, he should be automatically already infront of Morrison and Brunt, after all, he can actually run with pace and pass accurately, not like the other two, who are finished at this level, this team needs regeneration. Not a constant rotation of has bin 30 plus year olds. It's time to move on from the Brunt and Morrison safety net.o
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When I started this thread back in August, I had a feeling we had a star in the making. He still has a long way to go, but he will get there. He must not be benched in favour of Morrison, Brunt, et al, and should definitely retain his place at Bolton. Our young players need to be nurtured however, as they have had little game time at any level . Field could have come on with 15-20 minutes remaining yesterday to bolster midfield/defence when we new Norwich would intensify their pressure. The management team need to show confidence in our youngsters for the run in, and give them more exposure. The introduction of Leko at such at late stage was tokenary and pointless.
Frankly Robson-Kanu, Rodriguez, Brunt, Morrison and Livermore have not covered themselves in glory this season, and have often looked "done-for" in the latter stages of games. Timely substitutions by fresh legs of our younger players, may well have resulted in more points on the board.
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I expect him to be benched in favour of Livermore, Brunt or Morrison quite soon.
Would this be fair? I think not.
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Very good performance by Rakeem yesterday. Given it was such a big game, the lad must've been nervous, & that can take massively from your energy levels, but this lad seemed to be getting stronger as the game went on, & was the player pushing for a winner on 90+ minutes.
My message to the club is, ring him up now, get him to the ground, & get his contract sorted before he leaves the room, because we're on dangerous ground playing him in high profile games, when he could easily be tapped up!
Potentially, the answer to our midfield problem, get it sorted Albion!
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We have been saying it all season, Get legs in that midfield next to Barry/Phillips, Sign Woods etc, And yet behind Livermore, Brunt, Morrison, We had our own talent all along. Why do clubs over complicate things, Football at it's core isn't a hard game to understand, It's decision making getting in the way.
Harper and Barry was great yesterday.
Literally all our 30+ players should always have been backups not first teamers on a regular basis.
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When I started this thread back in August, I had a feeling we had a star in the making. He still has a long way to go, but he will get there. He must not be benched in favour of Morrison, Brunt, et al, and should definitely retain his place at Bolton. Our young players need to be nurtured however, as they have had little game time at any level . Field could have come on with 15-20 minutes remaining yesterday to bolster midfield/defence when we new Norwich would intensify their pressure. The management team need to show confidence in our youngsters for the run in, and give them more exposure. The introduction of Leko at such at late stage was tokenary and pointless.
Frankly Robson-Kanu, Rodriguez, Brunt, Morrison and Livermore have not covered themselves in glory this season, and have often looked "done-for" in the latter stages of games. Timely substitutions by fresh legs of our younger players, may well have resulted in more points on the board.
He played well yesterday and v well against Wigan, could have done with a rest at 70 mins (although in his case I get why they would also leave him out there)
The Leko sub was stupid at best, personally I would have been straight in to the manager after the match about it, if other clubs look at his stats it shows he played 0goals 0assists , keep doing that to someone and it can get to them
On HRK , am I the only one that thought he had a really good game?
He may not be who we all, wanted but the effort is undeniable and yesterday I thought is power and hold up were fantastic?
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If we don't play Harper consistently and from the start then we can't blame him if he refuses to sign a new contract and leaves for free at the end of the season.
My concern is that when Livermore is back, it will be Harper who loses his place because it's the easier option than having to drop an experienced pro.
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Excellent most of the game yesterday and looks a real talent given his age.
Many of us wondered months ago why he hadn't been given a go ?
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Hey mig, why not have Livermore, Harper and Barry in midfield.
Phillips Gayle Jrod front three.
Holgate,Dawson Hegazi Gibbs
Johnson.
I think that's our number 1 line up now,stick with it all the way.
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Thought he had a decent game, clearly running on fumes for the last twenty minutes though. Not sure but I think they got his name wrong on the big screen prior to the game. Only saw it fleetingly but it looked like Rak' as opposed to Rek'. Definitely got Robson-Kanu wrong though, unless he's changed his name to Roson-Kanu that is :-X .
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Hey mig, why not have Livermore, Harper and Barry in midfield.
Phillips Gayle Jrod front three.
Holgate,Dawson Hegazi Gibbs
Johnson.
I think that's our number 1 line up now,stick with it all the way.
That's the 3 I'd play in midfield too, all of them can tackle and Barry and Harper look to play us forward.
Brunt and Morrison should be on the bench and Barry should be captain.
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Hey mig, why not have Livermore, Harper and Barry in midfield.
Phillips Gayle Jrod front three.
Holgate,Dawson Hegazi Gibbs
Johnson.
I think that's our number 1 line up now,stick with it all the way.
Yep I agree that would be a good trio. My concern isnt really based on the opinion that Harper should play specifically instead of Livermore - I agree Livermore is part of our strongest XI.
Rather I'm worried that when Livermore is back it will be Harper who makes way instead of Brunt, Mozza or whoever else it is in the side at that time.
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The thing I liked most about him was that he didn't go charging around mad-headed. He kept the teams shape and used his energy in bursts to better effect.
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Looked up and sprayed a quality ball out to Holgate who provided the cross for the goal.
Good vision and composure from all concerned.
Well played.
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The thing I liked most about him was that he didn't go charging around mad-headed. He kept the teams shape and used his energy in bursts to better effect.
I thought he did the first 20 minutes or so. He was trying too hard.
Once he relaxed a bit and the adreneline levels had gone back down he was finer
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He needs a new deal as failure to get promoted and he could be first choice next year.
Let's see how fairs v Bolton (hopefully he can build on his displays)
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Excellent again, Brunts injury might be a blessing if Harper gets an extended run.
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Il feel better once I see we have signed him on a long term deal. If we don't get up him and Barry would be a good pairing for championship. If we got promoted there would be plenty of suitors ready to take him on loan for year. Lads 18 so plenty of time for him to find his feet for us in the greed league
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Il feel better once I see we have signed him on a long term deal. If we don't get up him and Barry would be a good pairing for championship. If we got promoted there would be plenty of suitors ready to take him on loan for year. Lads 18 so plenty of time for him to find his feet for us in the greed league
Please sign him up ASAP, first team regular in the champ or definite squad player in the Prem. We know he can pick a pass, but he can also turn his man and make the magical half a yard, just needs to work on his defensive positioning and maybe put a bit of beef on.
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I don't think he was great yesterday, similar to Field (though nowhere near as poor) things passed him by, I was gobsmacked to hear he'd been given man of the match on TV, I would love him to retain the shirt when the dreadful Livermore is available but he's not quite doing enough to criticise Darren if he doesn't.
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I thought Harper was one of several players who looked a bit tired for whatever reason , or another start and on live television got to him somehow. Giving him MoM was a bit mystifying. The couple of surges where he attacked some space gave a hint of what he can do.
Yes get that contract signed, could mature into a major asset in the next 2-3 years.
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Well, I only had the radio and Twitter to go on(Richmond has never been a baggies stronghold 😀)
From what I heard , saw on Twitter , it would seem he was ok...just ok...but then in a pretty poor match , ok is good ?
It is clear the boy can play, I hope he gets a contract , at his age there really could be a good career ahead .
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I don't know how Dingle Don gave him MOM? I would've given it to Holgate.
I thought Harper was a bit ordinary along with the rest of the team. We lacked creativity in midfield. It's a bit concerning when it's only Bolton.
That said we need to keep and nurture him for the long haul.
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I think he is the best of our youngsters. He can turn quickly and accelerate past players, which very few of our players can do. In the midfield we need a player(s) who can carry the ball forwards. Especially now Barnes has gone. He can also pick a decent intelligent long pass, and I didn't spot too many that were off the mark yesterday.
Its debateable whether he should have been MOTM against Bolton, but I've seen enough of him to see he has talent and a change of pace.
I'm not against steady midfielders who keep possession ticking the ball backwards and sideways, but you musn't have too many of them. One is probably enough.
I hope the club sorts out a new contract for him sooner rather than later.
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I think he is the best of our youngsters. He can turn quickly and accelerate past players, which very few of our players can do. In the midfield we need a player(s) who can carry the ball forwards. Especially now Barnes has gone. He can also pick a decent intelligent long pass, and I didn't spot too many that were off the mark yesterday.
Its debateable whether he should have been MOTM against Bolton, but I've seen enough of him to see he has talent and a change of pace.
I'm not against steady midfielders who keep possession ticking the ball backwards and sideways, but you musn't have too many of them. One is probably enough.
I hope the club sorts out a new contract for him sooner rather than later.
Agree completely, great post (for what it's worth ;D )
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Agree completely, great post (for what it's worth ;D )
Wow, a compliment from Jacko. I think I'll frame that :D
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Cracking young prospect. One who needs to pick, choose and time his runs a bit better so he doesn't knacker himself out too quickly in games. That knowledge will only come with experience though be that from the start (replaced before blowing out of his bum) or off the bench. Get that contract signed Rekeem ;) .
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I think he is the best of our youngsters. He can turn quickly and accelerate past players, which very few of our players can do. In the midfield we need a player(s) who can carry the ball forwards. Especially now Barnes has gone. He can also pick a decent intelligent long pass, and I didn't spot too many that were off the mark yesterday.
Its debateable whether he should have been MOTM against Bolton, but I've seen enough of him to see he has talent and a change of pace.
I'm not against steady midfielders who keep possession ticking the ball backwards and sideways, but you musn't have too many of them. One is probably enough.
I hope the club sorts out a new contract for him sooner rather than later.
Agreed and Barry is the best we have at it, allows others to get forward, when we have Brunt alongside him its 2 sitting and stifles us.
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I don't think he was great yesterday, similar to Field (though nowhere near as poor) things passed him by, I was gobsmacked to hear he'd been given man of the match on TV, I would love him to retain the shirt when the dreadful Livermore is available but he's not quite doing enough to criticise Darren if he doesn't.
Livermore shouldn't walk straight back into the team in fact no player should unless the bloke wearing his shirt is playing poor but having said that I think this season Livermore has played his best foot in a Albion shirt.
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The kid looks like a talent. I can see the Viera comparisons in his style, not as aggressive though and obviously nowhere near that level. I'd like to see him with Barry and Livermore with Phillips replacing Harvey Barnes.
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Worrying there is no news about his contract.
Need to prove to him he has a future here.
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Matt Wilson
@mattwilson_star
Darren Moore says #wba are putting the ‘final touches’ to Rekeem Harper’s new contract. He’s expecting it to be signed soon. More at
@ExpressandStar
soon
Great news if he signs
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I have a feeling he will sign the contract.
Part of me thinks that if he was being a bit of a 'rebel' then the club may not have thrown him into the limelight in terms of starting in the first team.
Why would they showcase his talents knowing he's going to walk.
I have a feeling there is an agreement in place and he will sign a new 4/5 year deal within weeks.
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Matt Wilson
@mattwilson_star
Darren Moore says #wba are putting the ‘final touches’ to Rekeem Harper’s new contract. He’s expecting it to be signed soon. More at
@ExpressandStar
soon
Great news if he signs
That sounds more hopeful, the lack of news was getting worrying.
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Cracking young prospect. One who needs to pick, choose and time his runs a bit better so he doesn't knacker himself out too quickly in games. That knowledge will only come with experience though be that from the start (replaced before blowing out of his bum) or off the bench. Get that contract signed Rekeem ;) .
Completely agree with the tiredness comment. But what worries me more is that Darren Moore can't see it. Cost us dearly in the Norwich game where we desperately needed fresh legs!
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The kid looks like a talent. I can see the Viera comparisons in his style, not as aggressive though and obviously nowhere near that level. I'd like to see him with Barry and Livermore with Phillips replacing Harvey Barnes.
Hopefully you will get your wish in the Middlesbrough game...
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Great news if he signs. Should get another game this weekend in the cup and start against Boro. He should be that little bit of magic that takes us past the stubborn Pulis defence- Hopefully for his first hat trick.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46988129
West Brom head coach Darren Moore says teenage midfielder Rekeem Harper is ready to sign a new contract.
The 18-year-old academy product has started the Baggies' last two Championship games after breaking into the first-team squad this season.
But his existing deal is due to expire at the end of the season.
"Rekeem is a player we want to stay at the football club, we're in the final parts of him re-signing which would be good news for everybody," Moore said.
Harper became just the second player born in the 21st century to play in the Premier League when he made his West Brom debut in the opening game of last season against Bournemouth.
He has made three Championship appearances this campaign and played three in four cup games.
"We're nearly ready to re-sign Rekeem Harper. The boy is our player, he belongs to us, he's local, he's developed through our academy," Moore added to BBC WM 95.6.
"He's young, energetic and fresh and he's enjoying his name. He's fearless and that's all the components of a good player.
"It's important to secure Rekeem because we don't do all our hard work to let the youngsters go out of the building. It would be the wrong thing to do.
"We've had good progressive talks with Rekeem's advisors and I'm pleased to stand here and say we're all on the same page."
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Another good game today. Needs that contract aorting
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Easily worthy of starting in a team that overall lacks a little pace.
Shame he wasn’t introduced earlier in the season.
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Our best player tonight. Sign him up.
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You wouldn't believe the kid has only played 6 games for us, looks so composed and assured in the middle of the park now. Going to have a very bright future, hopefully with us.
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He's got better every game, just needs to work on his stamina.
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Thought that was his best game so far. Looked very good.
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Has a very good first touch and a football brain. Maybe needs to improve his stamina. Probably our best player tonight.
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Has a very good first touch and a football brain. Maybe needs to improve his stamina. Probably our best player tonight.
Will come. More to do with pacing himself.
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Looked very good again tonight until tiring later on. The club need to sort out his contract asap or risk losing another young talent. Would rather have rested him tonight with the TV audience and played Brunt bringing Harper back in for Stoke.
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I echo the sentiments of everybody on here. He needs a new deal. If we fail to go up this year he will probably be first choice.
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Personally I will be surprised if he signs, because he has played really well on TV twice now and the sharks will be circling. As a free agent at the end of the season his value is well above any compensation we might receive.
If it were not for Murray popping up with the goals last night, he would have been MOM.
IMO the best young player to come through since Bryan Robson (including Izzie Brown).
He can recycle the ball effortlessly, not always playing passes square and behind and his special awareness for CM is excellent.
I hope I'm wrong because we will need these young lads when the parachute money runs out.
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What is the issue with contract negotiations, don't tell me we are offering too much. Jenkins better sort this out or it will be his head on chopping block.
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It is slightly worrying that we have been told for a while he has been close to signing a new deal and it hasn't yet been signed.
His development would be much better suited to staying at us as well, look how well Izzy Brown's career is going...
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Had me a bit of an old fart de ja vu moment last night watching this 'kid' glide around the park
His running, high knee and upright torso, style reminded me of someone and then later my raddled old brain popped up with "Laurie Cunningham used to run like that"
Just for clarity I'm not comparing him to Laurie just saying he reminded me of him
COYB
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I have said before, I would like to think the signing of a new contract is pretty much done, or else we are being very stupid in showcasing his talents in the first team knowing hes going to walk away.
I still think he will be signing a new 4/5 year deal soon and I fully expect to see him cement his place in the middle of the park.
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Really very pleased with Harper, he is comfortable taking the ball in tight areas and is also proficient in carrying the ball. He seems to be a decent passer of the ball and is capable of getting his head up and seeing a pass. He is also not scared to play a ball forward through the lines, which is really the mark of a good midfielder for me.
Echo what others have said, let's get the contract sorted. His stamina does seem an issue but let's not forget, he's a young lad and does have a big frame, he'll find the correct fitness programme for him which will naturally develop the more he plays. His performances do put me at ease a little regards the situation should we not go up.
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Totally agree with you Frank, he does have a very similar gait to Laurie, I thought that myself.
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he's talented and that won't go unnoticed to the elite clubs who fill these young kids heads with money. Harper could quite easily be a £20m player in a few years if his progress continues. let's hope he isn't another young player we lose.
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Had me a bit of an old fart de ja vu moment last night watching this 'kid' glide around the park
His running, high knee and upright torso, style reminded me of someone and then later my raddled old brain popped up with "Laurie Cunningham used to run like that"
Just for clarity I'm not comparing him to Laurie just saying he reminded me of him
COYB
My thoughts exactly
He has the same running style as Cunnungham, always on his toes and glides rather than runs
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Rekeem Harper has won the Coral Player of the Month award for January.
Congratulations and well deserved, let's hope we get his new contract sorted ASAP
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Rekeem Harper has won the Coral Player of the Month award for January.
Congratulations and well deserved, let's hope we get his new contract sorted ASAP
Un-droppable now surely?
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Un-droppable now surely?
Not un restable though which I suspect is what will happen tomorrow.
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That’s truly a massive acheivment for an 18 year old and shows just how well he’s done since breaking into the first team. I’ve said all along he’s our brightest young prospect and hope it continues
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Will be interesting to see who plays tonight. I could make a case for us keeping sharper as a starter alongside Livermore and Johansen. Concerned Barry may have peaked this season.
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Have we sorted his contract yet?
If not, let’s get it done!
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Have we sorted his contract yet?
If not, let’s get it done!
DM made some positive noises about the contract but that was 2 weeks ago now. It is worrying.....I live in hope that we'll have a feel-good announcement before some big game...Villa maybe ?
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Still no contract?
Can’t help being worried. Are the German clubs sniffing?
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it does seem like this is another young prospect who MAY slip through our fingers.
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it does seem like this is another young prospect who MAY slip through our fingers.
yes this whole saga is dragging on. the more games he plays the more his value goes up the more money he will want. and you know we will be being tight about his wage as ever...
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I tend to think we probably wouldn't start him ahead of Field if we thought there was a good chance he wouldn't sign.
Still, there'll no doubt be teams speaking to his agent so the sooner we get it done the better.
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yes this whole saga is dragging on. the more games he plays the more his value goes up the more money he will want. and you know we will be being tight about his wage as ever...
I don't know what he's been offered but it's not necessarily that we're being tight. In truth if I were his agent there'd be no way he'd be signing anything until he knows which division we'll be in (ed: or at the very least negotiating some very lucrative bonuses and staged pay increases), how much our new budget is likely to be and how much playing time he'd be likely to get. Rekeem and his agent hold all the cards and they have since negotiations began.
Their only worry, and it's a big one worth serious consideration, is whether he gets a serious/career ending injury before then. However, I'm quietly confident his agent will have taken out extra insurance to this effect on top of anything already in place via the club or the PFA. If he hasn't done the latter then Rekeem's not being represented very well.
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I’ve got the fear about this too. The more I see of him the more he looks like an incredibly mature and talented player. And with his strength and pace there’s quite clearly more to come.
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Hopefully it is just a matter of time - as SmethDan said, the more Harper plays, the more he can ask for in wages. I think it's crucial we tie him down on a longer deal. Fans are always happy to see a youth product make it, plus it sends a message to other players in the youth teams that if they're good enough, the club will reward it. It also helps with youth recruitment to showcase that clear path to the first team. It's almost worth giving him an above market value contract as the value to the club will be wider than just Harper's contribution on the pitch.
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There have been young players who in my opinion have been right to move on. Wood, Roofe, Sawyers are in that group.
However Roberts I genuinely think would have gotten as much time here as he has had at Leeds, if not more (surely better than HRK) and I do really believe Harper is better here than anywhere else. He’d be making a mistake to move on.
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Get this lad signed up. I’ll despair if we can’t get this sorted
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this kid could be special. think what he may be like in 2 years with better fitness levels and experience.
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This lad is unbelievably good
He needs signing up
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He's 18. Imagine how good he could be in 2 years time, and he'll still only be 20. Can't believe his contract hasn't been sorted yet, well worth £20k a week, should be paying based on ability rather than age.
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Love this kid. I saw Brian Robson playing as a kid and I think Rekeem is the best "home grown" midfielder to come through since.
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Very very special youngster and the first of a very promising bunch.
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He was excellent today.
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Watching him today and I swear if his socks where down by his ankles it was Laurie
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Someone compared his gait with Laurie the other day, I thought the same thing, totally different game to Laurie but I really like the look of him.
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The thing is with youngsters they can come in and impress for a game or two, they have talent after all, but it's after five, six, seven, eight games you see what they are all about. Can they operate at the required level for a period of time.
Harper has had that run and far from falling by the wayside he is actually getting better and better. We were not great against Forest but I thought it was Harper's best performance for us despite that. Against Villa he again looked the part.
This kid is going to make it alright in fact he already has.
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And well done to Moore for believing in him and putting him in the big games. Looks like a fantastic player.
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He can learn a lot still,he had three good chances to put players through in the second half, once he took an extra touch and Rodriguez drifted offside, the other 2 the passes were underhit and intercepted. Not intended to be overcritical, just probably the step up in intensity from the youth games for him to work on
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He can learn a lot still,he had three good chances to put players through in the second half, once he took an extra touch and Rodriguez drifted offside, the other 2 the passes were underhit and intercepted. Not intended to be overcritical, just probably the step up in intensity from the youth games for him to work on
You are right. His vision and creativity isn't great but that's not really the type of player he is. Livermore's is no better and he's a seasoned pro for example. Harper's execution of forward passes and passes over a range of distance can improve too (this is something Sam Field is better at). Yes Harper can improve aspects of his game and some of them he will do but he's already good enough to be a regular starter in a top Championship team.
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Does anyone know why there’s no contract signed yet? It’s unfathomable that he’s less than 4 months away from being a free agent and could sign a pre-contract today with a non-English club!
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Barry and Harper ran the midfield yesterday and it looks like he's getting Schooled by Gareth which is great. Thought he tired in final 20 minutes and needed a rest. As for contract the situation is baffling, kid should be signed for five years when he became 17
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Does anyone know why there’s no contract signed yet? It’s unfathomable that he’s less than 4 months away from being a free agent and could sign a pre-contract today with a non-English club!
It takes two to tango. I daresay we're keen to get him to sign but you never know if he is as keen as us.
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Barry and Harper ran the midfield yesterday and it looks like he's getting Schooled by Gareth which is great. Thought he tired in final 20 minutes and needed a rest. As for contract the situation is baffling, kid should be signed for five years when he became 17
I think the longest you can sign at 17 is three years.
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Yep - 18 or younger you can only sign 3 year deals.
Hopefully March 8th the 4 year deal will be announced
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He's very supple and can turn easily on the ball which buys him a vital second or two getting away from tackles. Middle of the park is a very important position. You need someone who will turn defence into attack with some tempo.
Choosing the right pass or when to go on a dribble should come with experience.
But his undoubted natural talent needs having the right coaching and you'd hope we have the right staff at the club to make him a better player.
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/totalfootballanalysis.com/player-analysis/rekeem-harper-west-brom-tactical-analysis-statistics/amp
A very interesting analysis on Harper.
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His wage demands now will be 10x what we could have agreed with him six months ago. The board have really screwed the contract situation up. Time to bit the bullet and offer him a 5 year deal he can’t turn down. Or we risk losing him. That’s what you get for penny pinching.
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His wage demands now will be 10x what we could have agreed with him six months ago. The board have really screwed the contract situation up. Time to bit the bullet and offer him a 5 year deal he can’t turn down. Or we risk losing him. That’s what you get for penny pinching.
Can understand where you’re coming from but maybe Harper wasn’t willing to sign 6 months ago? Or maybe Club were being cautious after offering long term contracts to Leko and Field?
A lot of younger players now are waiting to see if opportunities present themselves. I’m quietly confident he will sign.
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/totalfootballanalysis.com/player-analysis/rekeem-harper-west-brom-tactical-analysis-statistics/amp
A very interesting analysis on Harper.
Having read this,looks like we have one of the most promising home grown players ever,his movement and physique are way beyond his years,he needs to be signed up immediately
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We need to pay up for him to sign a new contract & so we should, short term pain for long time gain.
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You are right. His vision and creativity isn't great but that's not really the type of player he is. Livermore's is no better and he's a seasoned pro for example. Harper's execution of forward passes and passes over a range of distance can improve too (this is something Sam Field is better at). Yes Harper can improve aspects of his game and some of them he will do but he's already good enough to be a regular starter in a top Championship team.
I agree. The thing is, Harper actually tries more daring passes compared to Livermore who usually passes side-ways or backwards. So Harper may look worse at some times but is more likely to setup chances too.
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I agree. The thing is, Harper actually tries more daring passes compared to Livermore who usually passes side-ways or backwards. So Harper may look worse at some times but is more likely to setup chances too.
Harper and Livermore are worlds apart in terms of ability. Shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath.
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Can see him being approached by Spurs or Chelsea and us only getting a couple of million compo when he signs for them. We should have had him signed up to a new contract by now if he is in any way open to it.
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Just reading elsewhere that players under 19 can’t sign contracts for more than 3 years, Harper turns 19 next month so maybe we have an agreement in place to sign a contract then, certaintly hope so.
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Just reading elsewhere that players under 19 can’t sign contracts for more than 3 years, Harper turns 19 next month so maybe we have an agreement in place to sign a contract then, certaintly hope so.
Players can sign contracts of three years or more from the age of eighteen. The link below is from a site called 'Law In Sport'. Points 2, 4, 5 and 6 probably feature quite highly for Rekeem and his agent.
https://www.lawinsport.com/topics/articles/item/six-key-points-for-footballers-to-consider-when-signing-their-first-professional-contract
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If we do end up losing him as a result of not tying him down to a deal, would be unforgivable
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I imagine his agent is now telling him he can earn a minimum of 20,000 elsewhere.
6 months ago I imagine our contract offer would have been around the 5k a week mark, he has now gone from a squad player to a first team player so he will have people in his ear telling him he should be earning the same amount.
The club MUST be quietly confident about him signing a deal, would be suicidal to be showcasing his talents knowing he’s going to walk on a ‘free.’
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I can't blame him.
It is what his talent deserves in this stupid market.
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Apologies for it taking over the page :D
Speaks highly of Barry
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/52809878_10161523785280080_3210442282293526528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=5cef8a9bcd0f45d49104eed2f4b54c74&oe=5CF665A0)
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it's looking good about his future with us and his new contract offer.
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/974528225?-11200:789
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It is really tough for the club. It is plain that we have a player of huge potential and it seems to be a no brainer to get him to sign the longest contract he would agree to. The difficulty is I am sure there a plenty of Premier League clubs who would be happy to offer him £20k a week (and more) even if they loaned him straight back out to a Championship club. Unfortunately if we are still a Championship in 2 seasons time we won't be able to afford those wages.
Unfortunately I think we have to bite the bullet hope he continues to develop and plan to sell him in 3 years time if we don't get promoted.
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If we are talking about Harper delaying because he wants to know what division we are playing in August there is not much the club can do about it.
If it's financial then it's the club issue. There are some players paid extortionate amounts for the Championship who either haven't played much or have been poor when played.
From the Summer, Harper's talent must have noticed and the degree of potential he has got.
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Hope this gets done, I'm genuinely excited over Rakkem's future with us.
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Rekeem Harper's new deal at West Brom moves 'one step closer'
Good news, even better when and if he signs
Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/02/18/rekeem-harpers-new-deal-at-west-brom-moves-one-step-closer/
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Sounds like the club have put forward a contract proposal to his representatives and he's clearly not in a rush to sign it. Not sure if that's one step closer at all...............
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Im confident he will sign, he has had his breakthrough year this year and his performances have warranted a starting berth in the last 8 games.
He deserves a decent contract ill say that but he has a chance to get regular games at a club he knows and has come through the youth ranks of, rather than going elsewhere and ending up going on loan for the next 3 years
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what a prospect this lad is , he can only get better with games , to my way of thinking he has earned himself a starting place to the end of the season if he continues to play at his current level , because he will only get better with experience and encouragement from coaching staff not to be afraid to fail occasionally, its a shame that strike against forest never went in, that I am sure would have done no end of good for his confidence
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I get the feeling g that if we get to the Prem he will sign, if not he will be off. Hopefully I'm wrong.
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I imagine a lot will depend on who his advisors are.
If he has good ones, maybe those who have been with him a long time, who care about his development, then i think he will stay.
If he has ones who picked him up a year or two ago when he made his premier league debut and his name was being bandied about as special, then he is more likely to go, they wont care too much about where he will play, they will care about getting him the most money and fast.
If that is the case, As a 18 year old lad who will be offered huge sums that most of us can only dream of it will take a lot to turn round to his advisors and say he is staying at Albion despite possibly being offered more money elsewhere.
I would think at his age, just breaking through to first team football, not at the top level yet, you would only need your family and one good agent representing you (by good i mean trusted by the family, etc) not sure you necessarily need advisor(s) yet, that will come if you get more successful.
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I imagine a lot will depend on who his advisors are.
If he has good ones, maybe those who have been with him a long time, who care about his development, then i think he will stay.
If he has ones who picked him up a year or two ago when he made his premier league debut and his name was being bandied about as special, then he is more likely to go, they wont care too much about where he will play, they will care about getting him the most money and fast.
If that is the case, As a 18 year old lad who will be offered huge sums that most of us can only dream of it will take a lot to turn round to his advisors and say he is staying at Albion despite possibly being offered more money elsewhere.
I would think at his age, just breaking through to first team football, not at the top level yet, you would only need your family and one good agent representing you (by good i mean trusted by the family, etc) not sure you necessarily need advisor(s) yet, that will come if you get more successful.
I believe another board found out he uses the same agency as Field and Johansen.
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I imagine a lot will depend on who his advisors are.
If he has good ones, maybe those who have been with him a long time, who care about his development, then i think he will stay.
If he has ones who picked him up a year or two ago when he made his premier league debut and his name was being bandied about as special, then he is more likely to go, they wont care too much about where he will play, they will care about getting him the most money and fast.
If that is the case, As a 18 year old lad who will be offered huge sums that most of us can only dream of it will take a lot to turn round to his advisors and say he is staying at Albion despite possibly being offered more money elsewhere.
I would think at his age, just breaking through to first team football, not at the top level yet, you would only need your family and one good agent representing you (by good i mean trusted by the family, etc) not sure you necessarily need advisor(s) yet, that will come if you get more successful.
Lets just hope that he has seen berahino's fall from grace and is smart enough to not follow that path
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Good news if he has the same agency as Field then as he has signed a couple of contracts with us so hopefully they are looking at his playing development rather than just quick money.
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If we go up I think he'll stay. If not there will be plenty of Premier League teams willing to take a punt, particularly as the transfer fee will be decided by tribunal and they never value players as the open market does. Spurs already sniffing around looking to take advantage and news like that soon turns young players' heads.
It beggars belief that we've only this year begun to think about tying him down to a contract.
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It beggars belief that we've only this year begun to think about tying him down to a contract.
Whilst not being a fan of the WBA management team, I challenge you to prove your claim.
Can we be a bit more objective when carping about their 'failures'?
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Alongside Barry and Phillips he is in my first choice midfield three. Outstanding.
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Fantastic composure and instinct to play a back heel in the box in injury time to set Holgate free who picked our Livermore for the winner. Take a bow son.
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By his high standards I thought he was having a fairly modest game, then he does that back heal well what do I know. 8)
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Absolute abysmal game and I don’t like to slate WBA players. Awful and Moore didn’t take him off. Unbelievable.
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Talented on the ball, but uninterested in winning the ball and seems to lack passion.
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Talented on the ball, but uninterested in winning the ball and seems to lack passion.
Very harsh, his worst game so far, but no worse than most of his teammates tonight.
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Very harsh, his worst game so far, but no worse than most of his teammates tonight.
Agree easily the pick of the midfield trio despite having his worst game yet.
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Absolutely urine poor tonight. His closing down was about as convincing as OJ Simpsons defence. Maybe he was told to stand off, who knows. He brought nothing to the game and looked half asleep.
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Absolutely urine poor tonight. His closing down was about as convincing as OJ Simpsons defence. Maybe he was told to stand off, who knows. He brought nothing to the game and looked half asleep.
Yep that for me defined the whole game our lack of closing down versus theirs. For their goal they picked up possession centrally in their own half, no pressure on the ball, ball transitioned to their right, again no challenge, eventually working it to the byline, resisted the slide challenge, free header across goal 0-1. Gibbs and Holgate were pathetic at stopping the cross.
Just a totally lack of willingness to win the ball.
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Yep that for me defined the whole game our lack of closing down versus theirs. For their goal they picked up possession centrally in their own half, no pressure on the ball, ball transitioned to their right, again no challenge, eventually working it to the byline, resisted the slide challenge, free header across goal 0-1. Gibbs and Holgate were pathetic at stopping the cross.
Just a totally lack of willingness to win the ball.
As soon as we lost the ball we were in the rubbish as both Jake and Barry were treading water trying to get back leaving the defense completely exposed with four or five bodies running at them.
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Agree easily the pick of the midfield trio despite having his worst game yet.
The pick of the midfield ??!!! He was absolutely dreadful!!!!!!
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Livermore gets ruined on here yet was the only player showing for the ball and trying to start moves yet people think harper is the best thing since sliced bread. The game passed him by and he was by far the worst player on the pitch by a country mile.
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Livermore gets ruined on here yet was the only player showing for the ball and trying to start moves yet people think harper is the best thing since sliced bread. The game passed him by and he was by far the worst player on the pitch by a country mile.
Barry was
I don’t think Harper had too bad a game but when compared against previous games he’s played it was the worst hes played.
But worst player on the pitch?? Not for me
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He does need to work on his off the ball stuff, especially his defensive work. I think one of our biggest issues as a team is our lack of intensity off the ball - Sheffield Utd were the complete opposite this evening.
One thing I will say for him however is that I think he works a lot harder than he appears to. He looks a bit languid in his running, and yet he was quite often the first man forward to support attacks on the break, having bust a gut to ghost in.
With the right coaching he could become a very good player, but he will need to work n elements of his game.
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He does need to work on his off the ball stuff, especially his defensive work. I think one of our biggest issues as a team is our lack of intensity off the ball - Sheffield Utd were the complete opposite this evening.
One thing I will say for him however is that I think he works a lot harder than he appears to. He looks a bit languid in his running, and yet he was quite often the first man forward to support attacks on the break, having bust a gut to ghost in.
With the right coaching he could become a very good player, but he will need to work n elements of his game.
Easy to forget the kids eighteen.......
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Absolute rubbish
Barry was
I don’t think Harper had too bad a game but when compared against previous games he’s played it was the worst hes played.
But worst player on the pitch?? Not for me
He just wasn't on it tonight...... It happens, particularly with younger players. Looked languid and off the pace but that's not lack of effort.
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Agree easily the pick of the midfield trio despite having his worst game yet.
Agreed. Barry was poor tonight and Livermore isn't good enough to be a starter. How the hell does he have England caps?
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Absolute rubbish
Barry was
I don’t think Harper had too bad a game but when compared against previous games he’s played it was the worst hes played.
But worst player on the pitch?? Not for me
Out of interest who do you think was the worst player ?? Because for me it was harper by a mile. He hid from the game and on occasions looked borderline lazy. Livermore isn’t as good as harper on the ball but he never hid. He ushered the ball out and worked back where as harper was still jogging back.
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Harper took too long to get into the game, wasn't looking for the ball, could see J-Rod gesturing to him that he should have made himself available.
Crazy that the midfield 3 all finished the game with Field and Johansen still sat on the bench. Field may be a natural DM but is probably more likely to find a pass than Harper or Livermore. Barry poor today.
Harper is 18 has played a lot of games, was limping for periods 2nd half, should have been taken out of the firing line on 60 mins.
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If he keeps this up, ask yourself...Should he get a contract?
He has to revert to how good he can be.
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If he keeps this up, ask yourself...Should he get a contract?
He has to revert to how good he can be.
What ? Is that a serious question? There are several people currently at the club who are not worthy of a contract, but Rekeem is not one of them
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Blimey this is unreal. The kid is 18 years old and has great potential. He won’t be brilliant in every game.
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Harper is a young lad who has come a long way in a short space of time. I said after his debut fans will look at positive but once he gets established supporters expectations get raised and he will get criticised for doing exactly what he did that he got praised for in his first couple of appearances.
Harper wasn't great today but he was better than Barry and Livermore were.
Young lads sometimes need taking out for a while, they can regress if they are not handled carefully. Harper is a baby at eighteen.
I'd start him at Leeds and see how he goes. If he's having a poor game I'd take him off a leave him out for a while.
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Blimey this is unreal. The kid is 18 years old and has great potential. He won’t be brilliant in every game.
He will get better with experience our older players won't. If we fail to win promotion this season we will be relying on Harper and other emerging players as our ageing squad gets disbanded.
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He will get better with experience our older players won't. If we fail to win promotion this season we will be relying on Harper and other emerging players as our ageing squad gets disbanded.
If we fail to get promoted young Rekeem will get himself a Premier League signing on fee from elsewhere, while we go to tribunal.
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What ? Is that a serious question? There are several people currently at the club who are not worthy of a contract, but Rekeem is not one of them
Is he worthy of 20k a week which is what he is asking ??
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May be but it doesn't always work out that way - hopefully he'll still be with us and we'll see the benefit. Izzy Brown has hardly pulled up trees since featuring for us in the Premier League.
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he's set an high standard with his displays but not at his best today, but that's no shame when at 18 you look better than two ex England Internationals.
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he's set an high standard with his displays but not at his best today, but that's no shame when at 18 you look better than two ex England Internationals.
He wasn’t better than the other 10 on the pitch mate, he was absolutely awful yesterday. Don’t matter if he’s 18 or 28 it was like
Playing with 10 men and I rate Harper but yesterday was really surprising. People
Stick up for him because he’s getting some stick yet when Livermore has a bad game there’s a 1000 comments on his thread.
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He wasn’t better than the other 10 on the pitch mate, he was absolutely awful yesterday. Don’t matter if he’s 18 or 28 it was like
Playing with 10 men and I rate Harper but yesterday was really surprising. People
Stick up for him because he’s getting some stick yet when Livermore has a bad game there’s a 1000 comments on his thread.
This is clearly splitting people to the point where it looks like he played 2 ,arches yesterday
Personally I thought he played very well , in fact I don't think we were bad at all
Worst two if I had to pick would be Barry (tired) JRod (just don't know what he brings other than forcing Gayle wide) but all else were ok
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First half he looked a bit lost,agree with other posters he needs to offer more off the ball,good when he has the ball worst game so far,but then again I would give Montero man of the match for his 15mins,that is how bad everyone else was
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Bottom line is if he's having a mare hook him doesn't matter about his age,we cannot carry passengers
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Bottom line is if he's having a mare hook him doesn't matter about his age,we cannot carry passengers
I really do not see this
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The lad needs to be t@ken out the firingline for a game or two, I thought he looked a little jaded and tired in the last couple of games.
He’s 18 and needs to be managed properly rpto keep him fresh and maintain his confidence
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The lad needs to be t@ken out the firingline for a game or two, I thought he looked a little jaded and tired in the last couple of games.
He’s 18 and needs to be managed properly rpto keep him fresh and maintain his confidence
Yes, he can't be expected to be the focus of almost all attcking play with Barry and Livermore lumbering about behind him, he hasn't got the experience yet
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Absolutely the last player we should be looking to blame for anything, let alone a defeat, is Harper. He’s 18 and hasn’t even played a dozen games yet. I despair at the mentality of some of our fans sometimes.
It’s no wonder young players don’t want to stay with us long term when you see the dog’s abuse they get on social media from our knuckle draggers.
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Yesterday, Harper ran into some promising positions, attacking positions, but the ball was passed backwards or sideways and left him frustrated. Don’t blame Harper, blame the likes of Livermore and Barry for ignoring him.
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Absolutely the last player we should be looking to blame for anything, let alone a defeat, is Harper. He’s 18 and hasn’t even played a dozen games yet. I despair at the mentality of some of our fans sometimes.
It’s no wonder young players don’t want to stay with us long term when you see the dog’s abuse they get on social media from our knuckle draggers.
I couldn’t agree more - some on here are not supporters more like internet trolls!
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Absolutely the last player we should be looking to blame for anything, let alone a defeat, is Harper. He’s 18 and hasn’t even played a dozen games yet. I despair at the mentality of some of our fans sometimes.
It’s no wonder young players don’t want to stay with us long term when you see the dog’s abuse they get on social media from our knuckle draggers.
He was awful yesterday end of. If he’s Guna Ben to player he has to accept the criticism. It’s nothing to do with the fans that makes young players want to go elsewhere it’s purely money.
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He is 18 and special, he is allowed a couple of off days.
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He is 18 and special, he is allowed a couple of off days.
Absolutely, it's not football manager, its real life, we all have off days at work, when you are young they are more frequent, the lack of tolerance, understanding and reality on here in the last 24 hours is quite frankly, embarrassing.
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Absolutely, it's not football manager, its real life, we all have off days at work, when you are young they are more frequent, the lack of tolerance, understanding and reality on here in the last 24 hours is quite frankly, embarrassing.
Also there were still easily 7 or 8 worse performers than him.
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I really don't get how anybody can look at Saturday and pick out Harper as our worst midfielder, let alone player. Barry was blowing out of his backside after 10 minutes, while Livermore kept coming onto his right foot and leaving Gibbs exposed when defending, and lacking support going forward.
At least Harper kept picking up good positions and trying to move the ball well.
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I really don't get how anybody can look at Saturday and pick out Harper as our worst midfielder, let alone player. Barry was blowing out of his backside after 10 minutes, while Livermore kept coming onto his right foot and leaving Gibbs exposed when defending, and lacking support going forward.
At least Harper kept picking up good positions and trying to move the ball well.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion mate and there will always be different views as you believed he wasn't the worst midfielder as you say but in my opinion it was the worst midfield performance ive seen this season. Im not slating Harper, he is a great prospect and everybody has bad games. I just thought he was that poor that the last 20 minutes when we were chasing the game it was sticking out like a sore thumb that he blatantly wasn't showing for the ball and wasn't even tracking back.
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20k a week is a bargain.
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion mate and there will always be different views as you believed he wasn't the worst midfielder as you say but in my opinion it was the worst midfield performance ive seen this season. Im not slating Harper, he is a great prospect and everybody has bad games. I just thought he was that poor that the last 20 minutes when we were chasing the game it was sticking out like a sore thumb that he blatantly wasn't showing for the ball and wasn't even tracking back.
Livermore's performance at home to Forest would take some beating but Barry gave it his best shot on Saturday. Rekeem was okay, not at his best but did a decent enough job.
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion mate and there will always be different views as you believed he wasn't the worst midfielder as you say but in my opinion it was the worst midfield performance ive seen this season. Im not slating Harper, he is a great prospect and everybody has bad games. I just thought he was that poor that the last 20 minutes when we were chasing the game it was sticking out like a sore thumb that he blatantly wasn't showing for the ball and wasn't even tracking back.
Everyone can have an opinion - but some opinions are wrong :P
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I thought he was dreadful last night. How many times did he lose the ball in posession ? Countless.
Yes yes, i know he's only 18, he's one of our own etc etc,... i know all that - i just think its too much too soon for him.
i am failing to see what he is contributing. And he really was p*ss poor last night.
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I thought he was dreadful last night. How many times did he lose the ball in posession ? Countless.
Yes yes, i know he's only 18, he's one of our own etc etc,... i know all that - i just think its too much too soon for him.
i am failing to see what he is contributing. And he really was p*ss poor last night.
I completely agree mate but be careful, you can only criticise Livermore. In all seriousness he needs takin out of the firing line and rested for a couple of games. He looked borderline lazy for me last night.
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I completely agree mate but be careful, you can only criticise Livermore. In all seriousness he needs takin out of the firing line and rested for a couple of games. He looked borderline lazy for me last night.
No-one is above criticism on here as long as thats what it is criticism. So can we leave all this rubbish about only certain players allowed to be criticised, if thats what you think you're on the wrong forum.
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Tbf his best games seem to be when Barry is pulling the strings...both Barry and Livermore were pretty poor last night and Harper ran himself into the ground trying to cover for both of them
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What’s the status on his contract? He’s a free agent on 30th June and there are rumours that he is wanted on a free by all of the big 6 PL clubs (take that with a pinch of salt).
He’s 19 on March 8th and can apparently only sign a 5-year contract when he hits 19. Let’s hope that’s what is going to happen. If he ends up walking for free then we may as well bulldoze the Academy and several people should be sacked!
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Well to hear some we might as well let him walk out the door as he's lazy, not good enough and all that jazz and thats for a Championship side
Why would any top clubs be interested ?
But then we do have history of running youngsters down as a fan base don't we instead of letting them develop ?
He will make mistakes, he will struggle at times, he's 18 years old ffs
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Well if he's anything like most youngsters, his head will be turned by big bucks elsewhere, playing in the reserves, only to become lost at a League 1 club.
I fear we've missed the boat here (Again) with yet another good youngster.
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So I decided to watch the Leeds game again.
And people are actually saying Harper was the worst of our midfielders. Watch that game again.
Every time we tried to play out someone moved onto Barry.
Livermore has no mobility and takes 3 touches before he can move the ball normally sideways or backwards. Harper took the ball, used his strength and pace to beat the first man and looked for a ball forwards which often leads to giving it away but the fact our front 3s movement was woeful due to playing strikers out wide rather than wide men made it all the more an impossible task but many times he found our player.
As for being lazy our formation often leads to our full backs being left isolated against 2 opponents and neither Barry or Livermore have the legs to cover across that much ground.
Rakeem Harper will be one hell of a player and is being let down by his team mates and our inability to set a team up to play to our strengths we have not had.
He certainly doesn't deserve some of the criticism from some people on certain social platforms being aimed at him.
If our 2 head coaches can't or refuse to see this set up doesn't the players they are putting there then they don't deserve the opportunity to coach some of our gifted young players.
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So I decided to watch the Leeds game again.
And people are actually saying Harper was the worst of our midfielders. Watch that game again.
Every time we tried to play out someone moved onto Barry.
Livermore has no mobility and takes 3 touches before he can move the ball normally sideways or backwards. Harper took the ball, used his strength and pace to beat the first man and looked for a ball forwards which often leads to giving it away but the fact our front 3s movement was woeful due to playing strikers out wide rather than wide men made it all the more an impossible task but many times he found our player.
As for being lazy our formation often leads to our full backs being left isolated against 2 opponents and neither Barry or Livermore have the legs to cover across that much ground.
Rakeem Harper will be one hell of a player and is being let down by his team mates and our inability to set a team up to play to our strengths we have not had.
He certainly doesn't deserve some of the criticism from some people on certain social platforms being aimed at him.
If our 2 head coaches can't or refuse to see this set up doesn't the players they are putting there then they don't deserve the opportunity to coach some of our gifted young players.
Great post.
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Great post.
Thanks. Football isn't rocket science. I played and then managed mostly at amateur level but it's common sense to set your team up to play to its strengths with the players you have.
I do have a family member who plays professionally and was actually really good friends with Oliver Burke and rates this lad highly.
I think our handling and coaching of Burke is appalling.
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Agree with you Graka. Almost every time Harper picked the ball up he had a man on him instantly who he often beat then because there was no pass on he had to try and beat a second and third. If that had been me I'd have been inebriated off by the hour mark latest. Criticism of the lad is ridiculous given that the team at the moment is not firing and at Leeds was actually a non functioning mess.
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So I decided to watch the Leeds game again.
And people are actually saying Harper was the worst of our midfielders. Watch that game again.
Every time we tried to play out someone moved onto Barry.
Livermore has no mobility and takes 3 touches before he can move the ball normally sideways or backwards. Harper took the ball, used his strength and pace to beat the first man and looked for a ball forwards which often leads to giving it away but the fact our front 3s movement was woeful due to playing strikers out wide rather than wide men made it all the more an impossible task but many times he found our player.
As for being lazy our formation often leads to our full backs being left isolated against 2
opponents and neither Barry or Livermore have the legs to cover across that much ground.
Rakeem Harper will be one hell of a player and is being let down by his team mates and our inability to set a team up to play to our strengths we have not had.
He certainly doesn't deserve some of the criticism from some people on certain social platforms being aimed at him.
If our 2 head coaches can't or refuse to see this set up doesn't the players they are putting there then they don't deserve the opportunity to coach some of our gifted young players.
Great post. I too decided to go through the pain again and came to the same sort of conclusion. Harper was often the only swift out ball from defence, quite a few times he left his marker standing to go on a forward run to break their lines but was dragged back illegally. Often he shook off the guy trying to hold him back but the speed of the counter was neutralised and the only ball he could then play was to a slow midfielder behind or level with him. When he made a forward pass the receiver usually got closed down very quickly and lost the ball. Harper for me was our most effective midfielder whilst fit.
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I did think that Harper was hung out to dry by the formation, as the above posters are saying he was isolated between the static Barry/Livermore and the three forwards who stayed pretty high up the pitch - the same thing happened against Sheff U. It's a real shame if he loses confidence or even worse goes somewhere else because of this
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Well to hear some we might as well let him walk out the door as he's lazy, not good enough and all that jazz and thats for a Championship side
Why would any top clubs be interested ?
But then we do have history of running youngsters down as a fan base don't we instead of letting them develop ?
He will make mistakes, he will struggle at times, he's 18 years old ffs
My thoughts exactly Oldbury!. But hey who are we to argue with the expert coaches on here ::)
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So I decided to watch the Leeds game again.
And people are actually saying Harper was the worst of our midfielders. Watch that game again.
Every time we tried to play out someone moved onto Barry.
Livermore has no mobility and takes 3 touches before he can move the ball normally sideways or backwards. Harper took the ball, used his strength and pace to beat the first man and looked for a ball forwards which often leads to giving it away but the fact our front 3s movement was woeful due to playing strikers out wide rather than wide men made it all the more an impossible task but many times he found our player.
As for being lazy our formation often leads to our full backs being left isolated against 2 opponents and neither Barry or Livermore have the legs to cover across that much ground.
Rakeem Harper will be one hell of a player and is being let down by his team mates and our inability to set a team up to play to our strengths we have not had.
He certainly doesn't deserve some of the criticism from some people on certain social platforms being aimed at him.
If our 2 head coaches can't or refuse to see this set up doesn't the players they are putting there then they don't deserve the opportunity to coach some of our gifted young players.
A fantastic post
We should be building our midfield around Harper
Really hope we get his contract sorted out
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Should get rid. I mean why do we want an 18 year old with a great future ahead of him who can drive forward and beat a man. wouldn't we be better off with a thirty something year old who's got no legs, can't pass and will spend more time in the treatment room than on the pitch.
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So I decided to watch the Leeds game again.
And people are actually saying Harper was the worst of our midfielders. Watch that game again.
Every time we tried to play out someone moved onto Barry.
Livermore has no mobility and takes 3 touches before he can move the ball normally sideways or backwards. Harper took the ball, used his strength and pace to beat the first man and looked for a ball forwards which often leads to giving it away but the fact our front 3s movement was woeful due to playing strikers out wide rather than wide men made it all the more an impossible task but many times he found our player.
As for being lazy our formation often leads to our full backs being left isolated against 2 opponents and neither Barry or Livermore have the legs to cover across that much ground.
Rakeem Harper will be one hell of a player and is being let down by his team mates and our inability to set a team up to play to our strengths we have not had.
He certainly doesn't deserve some of the criticism from some people on certain social platforms being aimed at him.
If our 2 head coaches can't or refuse to see this set up doesn't the players they are putting there then they don't deserve the opportunity to coach some of our gifted young players.
Spot on. It's Barry and Livermore who need dropping. Barry can still be effective but I think too many games have caught up with him and he needs a breather. Livermore is just poor and I can't really understand why he is picked week after week. Harper is our best midfielder at present and is our only creative outlet. At 18 he is still very much in the development phase of his career and if he continues like he has done recently, will be an exceptional player in a few years. Unlike some others on here, I am fully expecting that he will sign a new contract with us once he turns 19.
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Spot on. It's Barry and Livermore who need dropping. Barry can still be effective but I think too many games have caught up with him and he needs a breather. Livermore is just poor and I can't really understand why he is picked week after week. Harper is our best midfielder at present and is our only creative outlet. At 18 he is still very much in the development phase of his career and if he continues like he has done recently, will be an exceptional player in a few years. Unlike some others on here, I am fully expecting that he will sign a new contract with us once he turns 19.
Me neither. He's had 3 or 4 reasonable performances this season and this has been his best season for us. What managers see in him I really don't know, basically he's pooh. Shouldn't be anywhere near the team except for emergencies.
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Just hope this lad gets signed up.
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Hope we can point out to Rekeem what the current status of the last herbet who was liked with a move to Spuds and got too big for his boots
https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2019/03/03/report-spurs-lead-race-to-sign-west-broms-rekeem-harper-for-free/
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Whatever we are paying Livermore this guy should be offered the same amount. If he goes questions should be asked
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I have too watched a re run of the Leeds game (from behind a cushion) and the criticism aimed at Harper is ridiculous. Yes he got caught in possession sometimes and yes he turned backwards quite often when he received the ball but there are a lot of reasons for that. A midfielder needs an outlet and other players need to step up to receive the ball. What he does well is to hold the ball for a small amount of time to allow that movement and - what a shock - it doesn't come so he finds himself with little option and those he has are to go backwards, sideways or try something which invariably may not come off.
I'm not comparing him in any way to Yacob but he had the same issues, he would get the ball but have little choice in moving it on. Most of us on here loved Claudio and wanted him to stay but he would have suffered in this side. Too many plodders and not enough taking responsibility and gripping the game - That's why Barnes was so good for us.
My take on things is to get Harper signed up and focus on his skills whatever as he and other youngsters will be our future - not a load of tired out ageing players.
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Any one know why it's taking so long to get this deal done and why wasn't he signed up longer when he first signed a professional contract.
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Any one know why it's taking so long to get this deal done and why wasn't he signed up longer when he first signed a professional contract.
And why didn't we get him signed up to a two year contract or whatever the max is for u19s? It could always have been upgraded later.
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Any one know why it's taking so long to get this deal done and why wasn't he signed up longer when he first signed a professional contract.
I read recently that Spurs were showing an interest in him, so that might be influencing his and his agents decision, if it is true
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I read recently that Spurs were showing an interest in him, so that might be influencing his and his agents decision, if it is true
Wasn't there another one of our players interesting Spurs in the past?
Oh Yes...He is now at Stoke (for the time being), he destroyed himself so many times too.
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Wasn't there another one of our players interesting Spurs in the past?
Oh Yes...He is now at Stoke (for the time being), he destroyed himself so many times too.
Sorry, I don’t get your comparison, perhaps you could explain :)
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'We want to see him stay': West Brom hopeful of keeping teenage prospect Rekeem Harper despite interest from Premier League clubs
Fingers crossed
Source: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6770027/West-Brom-hopeful-keeping-teenage-prospect-Rekeem-Harper.html
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Sorry, I don’t get your comparison, perhaps you could explain :)
I think his name is Sado :o
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I think his name is Sado :o
No, sorry, still don’t get it
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No, sorry, still don’t get it
I think he's suggesting that whatever the motivation the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. Don't quote me on it though ;D .
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I think he's suggesting that whatever the motivation the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence. Don't quote me on it though ;D .
Hardly a comparison between two different types of characters, one throws his dumb out the perambulator and the other seems more sensible and levelheaded. It’s only natural players will want to better themselves, but it’s the way they go about it surely that’s the comparison. ;)
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Hardly a comparison between two different types of characters, one throws his dumb out the perambulator and the other seems more sensible and levelheaded. It’s only natural players will want to better themselves, but it’s the way they go about it surely that’s the comparison. ;)
I'm not suggesting differently. I think we'll have a better idea of what's going on when he turns nineteen on Friday. For me, no deal in place and signed by Monday reduces our chances of keeping him. As stated previously though, if I were his agent he wouldn't be signing a damn thing until we knew what division and what budget or potential game time pot we'd be dealing in. And as also previously suggested I'd have taken out extra insurance for him ahead of potential injury between now and then to help cover him just in case.
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I'm not suggesting differently. I think we'll have a better idea of what's going on when he turns nineteen on Friday. For me, no deal in place and signed by Monday reduces our chances of keeping him. As stated previously though, if I were his agent he wouldn't be signing a damn thing until we knew what division and what budget or potential game time pot we'd be dealing in. And as also previously suggested I'd have taken out extra insurance for him ahead of potential injury between now and then to help cover him just in case.
I totally agree with you and have posted similar in the recent past. It applies to all our up and coming stars and who would blame them, that’s why we need promotion.
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“Why young English players are in high demand in Europeâ€
We don’t only have to concerned about losing our youn stars to Premier League clubs, European clubs are also on the prowl
Source: https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/47422209
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Any one know why it's taking so long to get this deal done and why wasn't he signed up longer when he first signed a professional contract.
You seem to live in a world where WBA have some sort of magical hold over players. Harper has an agent, paid by the player to look after his long term interests, which may not coincide with WBA's interests. The days of players being conned by clubs into signing deals which disadvantage them are long gone.
What do you want? Daily updates? Do you really think the club isn't keen to sort this out ffs??
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I totally agree with you and have posted similar in the recent past. It applies to all our up and coming stars and who would blame them, that’s why we need promotion.
I don't think Harper would get regular game time in the premier league, I think with promotion he'd be back on the bench at best same with all our young players. We'd be looking at improving the squad across the board.
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I don't think Harper would get regular game time in the premier league, I think with promotion he'd be back on the bench at best same with all our young players. We'd be looking at improving the squad across the board.
The point I was attempting to make was that we’d probably be able to afford higher wages and persuade them to stay, your possible right about them being bench warmers, but for a top premier club, they may not even make the bench. And certainly for some of the European clubs, they’d be playing regular first team football
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This situation is looking rather too ominous for my liking. Its March and the ‘finishing touches’ to his new contract have been taking months to sort out. I’d now say it’s looking more likely that he will leave than he will stay. Moore may like him as do I but it might be time we got him out the team, maybe the first team picture altogether. We can’t let a lad learn on the job when he is prepared to the dirty on us in a month or two.
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This situation is looking rather too ominous for my liking. Its March and the ‘finishing touches’ to his new contract have been taking months to sort out. I’d now say it’s looking more likely that he will leave than he will stay. Moore may like him as do I but it might be time we got him out the team, maybe the first team picture altogether. We can’t let a lad learn on the job when he is prepared to the dirty on us in a month or two.
While there is still a mutual benefit for both parties, personally, I have no issue with Darren continuing to select him for the first team
But like you I am growing concerned at the delay which is an ominous sign that his agent is weighing up all options and I can’t really blame him for looking after his clients best interest as he sees them
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This situation is looking rather too ominous for my liking. Its March and the ‘finishing touches’ to his new contract have been taking months to sort out. I’d now say it’s looking more likely that he will leave than he will stay. Moore may like him as do I but it might be time we got him out the team, maybe the first team picture altogether. We can’t let a lad learn on the job when he is prepared to the dirty on us in a month or two.
I agree with this , personally think his performances have dipped a bit too which is to be expected at his age.
Club comes first for me.
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This situation is looking rather too ominous for my liking. Its March and the ‘finishing touches’ to his new contract have been taking months to sort out. I’d now say it’s looking more likely that he will leave than he will stay. Moore may like him as do I but it might be time we got him out the team, maybe the first team picture altogether. We can’t let a lad learn on the job when he is prepared to the dirty on us in a month or two.
It might not be him but his agent in his ear. His agent might be angling for a big move as more money for Rekeem= more money for him.
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It might not be him but his agent in his ear. His agent might be angling for a big move as more money for Rekeem= more money for him.
Harper owes the Albion big time for his development so far, and he should acknowledge this by signing a contract with us for the foreseeable future, with a release clause at whatever amount his representatives and the club can agree on. I understand this could be a sticking point, but eventually everyone would win.
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Harper owes the Albion big time for his development so far, and he should acknowledge this by signing a contract with us for the foreseeable future, with a release clause at whatever amount his representatives and the club can agree on. I understand this could be a sticking point, but eventually everyone would win.
I cannot believe some of the rubbish being thrown at Rekeem Harper on this forum. Some of our senior players are inferior to this lad, and not only has he done well so far, but our other youngsters are being encouraged by his selection for the first team. He is just as entitled to consider his future as any other player.
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Harper owes the Albion big time for his development so far, and he should acknowledge this by signing a contract with us for the foreseeable future, with a release clause at whatever amount his representatives and the club can agree on. I understand this could be a sticking point, but eventually everyone would win.
He owes us nothing and we owe him nothing.
How would you equate the same principle between you and your employer, given similar circumstances?
From a fans point of view, of course we want him to stay, but life is never that simple
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He owes us nothing and we owe him nothing.
How would you equate the same principle between you and your employer, given similar circumstances?
From a fans point of view, of course we want him to stay, but life is never that simple
If I spend 8 years as an employer teaching an apprentice the art of a trade and he then walked out to a competitor who immediately gained the benefit of my time and effort I would feel a little aggrieved I guess.
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If I spend 8 years as an employer teaching an apprentice the art of a trade and he then walked out to a competitor who immediately gained the benefit of my time and effort I would feel a little aggrieved I guess.
Are the competitor going to offer the apprentice more money than your firm though? If you value the skills that you have provided him so highly in money terms, hopefully you will be rewarding him with a salary that at least matches what the competitor will offer? And what does the future look like for your firm in the future? Are they likely to see a bright future and stability, or are they steadily but slowly performing less well, therefore providing less security?
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If Harper wasn’t deemed good enough he would just be released with not a care where he ended up so clubs can’t have it both ways
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I imagine he is waiting to see what direction we are headed in before committing, and I can't blame him to be perfectly honest.
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I would imagine he is in a bit of a whirlwind to be honest. He's gone from being relatively unknown to playing at the top end of the Championship and getting rave reviews. I would bet his agent is doing cartwheels.
Modern day football unfortunately, money talks.
I love my job but, if someone offered to double / treble my salary, my head would get a bit of a wobble.
Whatever will be will be but I won't be critical of the lad, it's the system that puts us in this position, just hope he can keep his composure and finish the season with a flourish.
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We know we can't compete for players if the likes of Spurs come calling for one of our young lads.
It should be pointed out to them that they will in all likelihood be a bench warmer for some time before they get anywhere near the first team.
We've seen it over the years. Bright young prospects here, set off after big bucks into oblivion.
Its the power of the pound that turns their heads as much as anything else.
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How much composition does the club get if he decides to leave?
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How much composition does the club get if he decides to leave?
In these circumstance, I think if the selling club and the buying club can't agree on a fee, it then goes to a football court of arbitration.
The court would then look at various aspects of the player, age, salary, years at the club and probably many other elements of his association with the club and come up with a figure.
I think we received, in the region of £5m+ for Izzy Brown
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Just hope that Spurs don't play with his head as they did with Sado.
Who they wanted on drip feed, and it seemed that he was then becoming Billy big bo££ocks, thinking that he had made it because of the price tag.
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Just hope that Spurs don't play with his head as they did with Sado.
Who they wanted on drip feed, and it seemed that he was then becoming Billy big bo££ocks, thinking that he had made it because of the price tag.
And look at him now, what must his mum think seeing him outside court like that. Maybe Harper will see that and take the slow road, give us 3-5 years on a decent salary actually playing football for a living.
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To be fair, there is little comparison between the two, Saido's asking price was circa £25m, Harper's price will be considerably less as he is only 19 and, as a result, an easier transaction for the buying club with fewer restraints and constraints.
So, if he wants to leave us, there's no where near the hurdles to overcome as with Saido and the protracted saga that we had to endure.
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I am expecting some good news on the Harper front before Easter.
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I am expecting some good news on the Harper front before Easter.
Don’t know whether that is hope or something more?
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I am expecting some good news on the Harper front before Easter.
If I remember correctly you are ITK on things Rakeem aren’t you?
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In these circumstance, I think if the selling club and the buying club can't agree on a fee, it then goes to a football court of arbitration.
The court would then look at various aspects of the player, age, salary, years at the club and probably many other elements of his association with the club and come up with a figure.
I think we received, in the region of £5m+ for Izzy Brown
It was nowhere near £5m. I think it was only going to exceed a million of certain criteria was met. We only got that because it was a few months before the change in rules where academy players could be snapped up for a set fee of around £250k.
Harper has at least had a contract here, but we would e lucky to get anywhere near £5m. Probably more like £2m and a cut of any sale.
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We got £1 million for Brown, and are due 15% of any sell on fee, which is unlikely to be much now that Brown’s career has stalled due to injury.
I would imagine the fee for Harper would not be much different, however if he signs a new contact and we sell him 12-18 months later, we could get £15-£20 million for him.
That’s the frustration with the EPPP system. It was projected that it would cost at least £2 million a season to run a category 1 academy. That was 5 years ago, so with inflation that may have risen to closer to £3 million. That means since the plan started, we have probably spent £12 million or more on our academy in a 5 year period.
If we consistently lose our best talents for £1 million at a time, it starts to look like dead money that could be better spent elsewhere. I get that the flip side is that a couple of players could make you big money (Norwich have made over £30 million on just 2 players in the last couple of years), but so far, apart from Berahino (who came through prior to the EPPP plan), we have not really got much from our academy, despite the huge promise it has shown.
If Harper does go for very little in the summer, we need to have a real look at what we are doing and how we can stop the drain, especially with players like Tulloch, Rodgers and Barry coming through.
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If I remember correctly you are ITK on things Rakeem aren’t you?
You don't and I'm not :)
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You don't and I'm not :)
So, it was more hope then? ;)
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So, it was more hope then? ;)
I wouldn't read too much into it mate, he's just put an opinion down same as we all do
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Any sniff from a so called bigger club and our youngsters can't get out of the door quick enough, not saying that Harper will be the same. Our academy needs to address this issue or what's the point in investing in the youth set up if their going to bugger of at the first chance they get.
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Any sniff from a so called bigger club and our youngsters can't get out of the door quick enough, not saying that Harper will be the same. Our academy needs to address this issue or what's the point in investing in the youth set up if their going to bugger of at the first chance they get.
But how do we address the issue? We cannot stop any player wanting to move to a 'bigger' club once they come sniffing. We have to accept there is no loyalty in football and we are not at the top of the food chain.
I don't think there is any way we can address this subject, you cannot put these youngsters' on lengthy contracts so we are very limited in what can actually do. The club have obviously shown Rekeem they see him as part of the first team squad and part of the future, if he still doesn't want to sign a contract there isn't too much more we can do.
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But how do we address the issue? We cannot stop any player wanting to move to a 'bigger' club once they come sniffing. We have to accept there is no loyalty in football and we are not at the top of the food chain.
I don't think there is any way we can address this subject, you cannot put these youngsters' on lengthy contracts so we are very limited in what can actually do. The club have obviously shown Rekeem they see him as part of the first team squad and part of the future, if he still doesn't want to sign a contract there isn't too much more we can do.
from outside looking in it seems that our academy is susceptible than most to lose youngsters to other clubs. Villa, Norwich, Southampton and West Ham seem to be able to hold on to their talent much better than us.
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If i was Harper i would be in no rush to sign a new contract.
A few things will come into it, ie - money, development, playing first team football, etc.
If i was him i would wait til the end of the season, at the moment we have a manager who knows him well and who has gave him a proper chance and made him a first team regular and will hopefully continue to promote youth.
However come the end of the season, i have a feeling if we dont make the playoffs, possibly even if we do but then lose in them i think we will sack Darren Moore (i dont want us too)
I think because of the lesser parachute money we will try and target a promotion specialist, a Steve Bruce or Neil Warnock type to have a one season push to get us into the premier league. Those managers arent known for developing young players, they will want quick fixes and if Harper signs a new deal and we do end up in that scenario i could see him becoming another Field and Leko under Pulis and Pardew, not playing and losing time in his development.
I hope Harper wants to stay, but if Spurs are seriously interested you could see the appeal, they are a big club with big ambitions and more than that, Pochettino has shown if your good enough he will give you a chance whatever your age, Spurs use their youngsters more than we do.
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In these circumstance, I think if the selling club and the buying club can't agree on a fee, it then goes to a football court of arbitration.
The court would then look at various aspects of the player, age, salary, years at the club and probably many other elements of his association with the club and come up with a figure.
I think we received, in the region of £5m+ for Izzy Brown
"Baggies" seems confident we got £1m for Brown, so how did you get the £5m+ figure?
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"Baggies" seems confident we got £1m for Brown, so how did you get the £5m+ figure?
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-brom-must-wait-transfer-13306680
Appears it was £1mill
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"Baggies" seems confident we got £1m for Brown, so how did you get the £5m+ figure?
A bad guess, I guess ;D
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Had me a bit of an old fart de ja vu moment last night watching this 'kid' glide around the park
His running, high knee and upright torso, style reminded me of someone and then later my raddled old brain popped up with "Laurie Cunningham used to run like that"
Just for clarity I'm not comparing him to Laurie just saying he reminded me of him
COYB
I've just realised that these two also seem to share the same month birthdate, which is today!
Amazing to think Laurie would have been 63 today and Rakeem is turning 19
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He was an Albion legend. If I have a career like him, I'll be over the moon."
@Rekeemharper8 on sharing his birthday with Laurie Cunningham.
Happy Birthday Reekem
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Coached by Big Dave from a young age, given first team chance by him ... chances of signing a contract now?
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Coached by Big Dave from a young age, given first team chance by him ... chances of signing a contract now?
Fully agree no chance now he will sign for us.
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Fully agree no chance now he will sign for us.
He wasn't signing a contract when Moore was in charge so I don't see how sacking the manager has changed much.
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Nothing to do with Moore. Chelsea have been after him since before u16 but he had signed pre contract agreement before u16 so Chelsea couldn't get him despite a few shenanigans that went on.
Nothing Albion can do, except offer him a lot of money to match what is being offered elsewhere.
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He wasn't signing a contract when Moore was in charge so I don't see how sacking the manager has changed much.
Unless you are ITK, how can you be so dogmatic about his intentions?
Certainly the last 24 hours will have taught him a harsh lesson about 'loyalty'.
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To be honest Harper signing is the least of our worries.
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Ridiculous to suggest Harper wont stay just because Big Dave has gone. Not one of us know what is going on in Harpwrs head or what discussions have gone on. Whether he stays or not will be down to what he wants and not whether big dave was sacked or not.
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Nothing to do with Moore. Chelsea have been after him since before u16 but he had signed pre contract agreement before u16 so Chelsea couldn't get him despite a few shenanigans that went on.
Nothing Albion can do, except offer him a lot of money to match what is being offered elsewhere.
Well it won’t be Chelsea since they are going to be banned from registering players. I think they are capping the number of players you can loan out too, so on a different note we should be taking a look at their young players.
In terms of Harper, I think he will wait to speak with any new head coach and see how much he plays in the final 10 games. He’ll genuinely be better off here with a sensible buy out in my opinion.
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Anyone who thinks Harper won’t sign a contract because DM has gone is on the moon.
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Sick and tired of all this stuff around someone who is essentially hold the club who has nurtured his talent from a very young age to ransom.
Sign or don't sign RH, WBA Fc were here before you and will be here long after you.
But, remember your contemporaries who also thought the grass was greener elsewhere.
Personally, I don't like the way he and his representatives have let this drag on. We have obviously offered him a contract and instead of signing it and concentrating on getting better and playing more and then getting another better contract these young players like him know now that one contract elsewhere could make them for life financially if not on the pitch.
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Sick and tired of all this stuff around someone who is essentially hold the club who has nurtured his talent from a very young age to ransom.
Sign or don't sign RH, WBA Fc were here before you and will be here long after you.
But, remember your contemporaries who also thought the grass was greener elsewhere.
Personally, I don't like the way he and his representatives have let this drag on. We have obviously offered him a contract and instead of signing it and concentrating on getting better and playing more and then getting another better contract these young players like him know now that one contract elsewhere could make them for life financially if not on the pitch.
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He's doing what any of us with half a brain cell would do.
Maximise the amount income for the least amount of effort
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You can't blame him for his approach, it's his career and life he's thinking about. Why jump at what he's offered when there's question marks about what division we'll be in next season? And now question marks about a new manager.
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[/b]
He's doing what any of us with half a brain cell would do.
Maximise the amount income for the least amount of effort
But, it is not what of our other youth players do.
Field and Leko have signed long term deals and shown their commitment and gratitude to the club who have honed and nurtured their talent and then you get the likes of him and Roberts who want an immediate payout rather steadily earn better contracts with us.
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But, it is not what of our other youth players do.
Field and Leko have signed long term deals and shown their commitment and gratitude to the club who have honed and nurtured their talent and then you get the likes of him and Roberts who want an immediate payout rather steadily earn better contracts with us.
Only time will tell if they have made the correct decision.
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Only time will tell if they have made the correct decision.
Time has already told us that sinclair made the wrong choice but as long as he got the signing on bonus from Watford I suppose he is happy.
If Harper goes and we don't get a significant tribunal fee and sell on I would be more sympathetic to others clubs who I previously thought were stupid for shutting down their systems.
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Anyone who thinks Harper won’t sign a contract because DM has gone is on the moon.
Exactly Dave only started playing him by default,as we had lots of injuries,a lot of fans were saying he should have been given a chance way before
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He tried..Not the end of the world.
Has to accept what he has done and what his future is.
His agent must bring him into the real world, and just not think about his agent's fees.
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Hopefully he signs a contract to stay with us and he may have a good career but at the moment he is not
anything more than promising and not worth a nailed on place in a team hoping to play in the Premiership or be an automatic promotion candidate.
Three obvious shortcomings
1)stamina A lot of younger players lack this
2)Seems slow to react to happenings around him
3)Seems powder puff in challenges particularly given his size and to me seems to avoid physicality if possible.
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Hopefully he signs a contract to stay with us and he may have a good career but at the moment he is not
anything more than promising and not worth a nailed on place in a team hoping to play in the Premiership or be an automatic promotion candidate.
Three obvious shortcomings
1)stamina A lot of younger players lack this
2)Seems slow to react to happenings around him
3)Seems powder puff in challenges particularly given his size and to me seems to avoid physicality if possible.
4)Stops for 1.5 seconds when it goes wrong and waves his arms like Brunt. Can't be doing this.
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Miles better than Livermore. Where would our midfield be without him? I dread to think.
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Miles better than Livermore. Where would our midfield be without him? I dread to think.
Harper is a great prospect and that is the thing about football, different opinions, i actually thought Harper was average last night. He did a few good runs with the ball but when it didnt come off he tended to throw his arms in the air and sulk a bit when he should of perhaps let the ball go a bit sooner. i would keep him in the team for saturday though.
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Harper is a great prospect and that is the thing about football, different opinions, i actually thought Harper was average last night. He did a few good runs with the ball but when it didnt come off he tended to throw his arms in the air and sulk a bit when he should of perhaps let the ball go a bit sooner. i would keep him in the team for saturday though.
My feelings as well more or less, I'd also add that if he loses the ball it's not often he tries to win it back.
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He's been a breath of fresh air coming in to the team and being part of our academy.
The one question I do find myself asking is what type of midfielder is he?
I'm not sure hes able to deliver that 'killer' pass in the final third, I haven't seen enough evidence from him to see him hitting 8-10 goals a season either.
Defensively I couldn't imagine him sitting in a holding role as he likes to get forward, so it's a bit of a confusing one to be honest.
Starting to get the feeling he wont sign the contract, or he will let it run down to the summer and keep us on hold.
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He's been a breath of fresh air coming in to the team and being part of our academy.
The one question I do find myself asking is what type of midfielder is he?
I'm not sure hes able to deliver that 'killer' pass in the final third, I haven't seen enough evidence from him to see him hitting 8-10 goals a season either.
Defensively I couldn't imagine him sitting in a holding role as he likes to get forward, so it's a bit of a confusing one to be honest.
Starting to get the feeling he wont sign the contract, or he will let it run down to the summer and keep us on hold.
A good point. Asides from one incredible effort that hit the bar all his shots have been miss hits or weak at best. I don't see what kind of midfielder he is either. He's certainly good at carrying the ball forward and turning defence into attack and if he can learn when to make that killer pass then we can probably call him a bit of a playmaker. At the moment though he's guilty of holding on to the ball for too long, but most young players are guilty of that.
I guess thinking of high profile players he may be able to develop like he potentially could be a Pogba kind of player but i have him in the "great potential" category and i think his game needs a lot of work.
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He's been a breath of fresh air coming in to the team and being part of our academy.
The one question I do find myself asking is what type of midfielder is he?
I'm not sure hes able to deliver that 'killer' pass in the final third, I haven't seen enough evidence from him to see him hitting 8-10 goals a season either.
Defensively I couldn't imagine him sitting in a holding role as he likes to get forward, so it's a bit of a confusing one to be honest.
Starting to get the feeling he wont sign the contract, or he will let it run down to the summer and keep us on hold.
Got to admit, I'm a bit confused with Rakeem, he does show flashes of brilliance, but I think he's far from the finished article.
I think Sam Field is better suited to the sitting role, & I've yet to see any consistency from Rakeem in an attacking role.
Pretty sure he's capable, but he seems to lack self confidence.
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Got to admit, I'm a bit confused with Rakeem, he does show flashes of brilliance, but I think he's far from the finished article.
I think Sam Field is better suited to the sitting role, & I've yet to see any consistency from Rakeem in an attacking role.
Pretty sure he's capable, but he seems to lack self confidence.
I think you are right about the self confidence. He still seems a bit tense when he plays. When he can relax and let things flow, he will start being more effective in making things happen. All in all, a fantastic start to his 1st team playing career and a very exciting prospect.
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Rekeem has been called up to England’s U19 squad
Well done Rekeem
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He's a box to box midfielder. Needs to work on his finishing but he's got everything else required, bite in the tackle, superb passing range, time on the ball, good vision and good positioning. Closest thing to a Steven Gerrard you're likely to see coming through at Albion.
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Got to admit, I'm a bit confused with Rakeem, he does show flashes of brilliance, but I think he's far from the finished article
Perhaps you could bear in mind the guy is (just) 19 years old.
I have never seen the 'finished article' in ANY player of that age.
Give the kid a break!
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He's a box to box midfielder. Needs to work on his finishing but he's got everything else required, bite in the tackle, superb passing range, time on the ball, good vision and good positioning. Closest thing to a Steven Gerrard you're likely to see coming through at Albion.
All of those things - yet remarkably in 3 months time he’ll have walked away as a free agent. Gross negligence on the club’s part.
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All of those things - yet remarkably in 3 months time he’ll have walked away as a free agent. Gross negligence on the club’s part.
And just how was the club supposed to force him to sign?
The days of indentured servitude are long gone.
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Perhaps you could bear in mind the guy is (just) 19 years old.
I have never seen the 'finished article' in ANY player of that age.
Give the kid a break!
Not sure what you mean by "Give the kid a break"?
I said later on in my comment that I thought the lad had tallent, but he needs to work on his confidence.
Is it no longer OK to give constructive critisism?
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Played 73 minutes for the England U23, despite the criticism he gets on here and elsewhere he's obviously doing something right
another Baggie Nathan Fergsuon was an unused sub
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/march/harper-involved-for-young-lions/
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And just how was the club supposed to force him to sign?
The days of indentured servitude are long gone.
Not force - incentivise. Should have been offered a better deal 12 months ago, one that he wouldn’t have hesitated to sign. But this club and the concepts of strategy and forward planning are total strangers. The club’s hierarchy is a desperate shambles.
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I assume the general consensus is that this lad won’t be signing now? If that’s the case can anyone tell me how much we are likely to get for him please?
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I assume the general consensus is that this lad won’t be signing now? If that’s the case can anyone tell me how much we are likely to get for him please?
Probably no more than a couple of million at best and a sell on, given past tribunals if he does leave.
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i could be wrong but surely how long this is dragging on is because he wants a certain salary and albion wont pay it ?
we need to be careful about giving him a 3-4 contract on too much money as it could just all go to his head and from what ive seen of harper this season he is a good prospect but not really set the world alight. he has done "okay" i would say.
it should be a gradual increase on his salary depending on performance and improvement IMO.
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i could be wrong but surely how long this is dragging on is because he wants a certain salary and albion wont pay it ?
we need to be careful about giving him a 3-4 contract on too much money as it could just all go to his head and from what ive seen of harper this season he is a good prospect but not really set the world alight. he has done "okay" i would say.
it should be a gradual increase on his salary depending on performance and improvement IMO.
I totally agree with you Tipton. However, such is the mad world of football in this country he will no doubt have an advisor telling him that he can get him a far better deal elsewhere. So we either pay up or risk losing a very good young prospect (again!)
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Harper is a good prospect but he's not worth paying crazy money for.
Yes he's very young and he can and probably will continue to improve but we have to use our heads and offer him a deal that reflects what he is, a good prospect but he's not a 16 year old Wayne Rooney or a 17 year old Michael Owen. IF and I stress IF he and his advisers want more money than what is reasonable then let him go and re-invest the money elsewhere.
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;) He is "ONE OF OURS" so lets look after him and just get rid of the "deadwood" pulling wages because they had "mates" in management.
We have to build the team around great prospects from our "Youth" academy....even if it means another 12 months in the Chumps....some of these "kids" have the potential to "walk" this league next season.
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;) He is "ONE OF OURS" so lets look after him and just get rid of the "deadwood" pulling wages because they had "mates" in management.
We have to build the team around great prospects from our "Youth" academy....even if it means another 12 months in the Chumps....some of these "kids" have the potential to "walk" this league next season.
The words "some" and "potential" aren't quite enough though ! I think I may just have taken the bait, dammit !
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It's a tricky situation in all honesty.
Yes he has a great amount of potential, we have clearly offered him a deal, from what I have heard we have improved the offer based on his continued involvement in the first 11. He knows whats on the table, his agent will obviously be talking to other interested parties to see what other deals he can get Rekeem, at this point no doubt he will try to force the club into offering a little more.
As a club we have to look at this as a business, yes he does have potential, but he has been involved with the first team squad for as long as Field, granted he has started more but you could argue Sam has had more input on games (goals, assists etc) from memory I don't think Harper has contributed any assists?
We have obviously offered him a deal, I would imagine of around 3/4 years with an option, on around 10k a week. Should we be bending over and giving him more? I'm not so sure.
If he believes the grass is greener elsewhere then so be it, he only has to look at Berahino, Izzy Brown, Yan Dhanda, Jerome Sinclair to know it doesn't always work out.
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It's a tricky situation in all honesty.
Yes he has a great amount of potential, we have clearly offered him a deal, from what I have heard we have improved the offer based on his continued involvement in the first 11. He knows whats on the table, his agent will obviously be talking to other interested parties to see what other deals he can get Rekeem, at this point no doubt he will try to force the club into offering a little more.
As a club we have to look at this as a business, yes he does have potential, but he has been involved with the first team squad for as long as Field, granted he has started more but you could argue Sam has had more input on games (goals, assists etc) from memory I don't think Harper has contributed any assists?
We have obviously offered him a deal, I would imagine of around 3/4 years with an option, on around 10k a week. Should we be bending over and giving him more? I'm not so sure.
If he believes the grass is greener elsewhere then so be it, he only has to look at Berahino, Izzy Brown, Yan Dhanda, Jerome Sinclair to know it doesn't always work out.
In my very humble opinion he is better than all of those, and he has already proved it .
Of course we could always borrow somebody like the Pole and pay him £100K per week, or evan Tosin at £54K for no commitment to the club whatever.
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In my very humble opinion he is better than all of those, and he has already proved it .
Of course we could always borrow somebody like the Pole and pay him £100K per week, or evan Tosin at £54K for no commitment to the club whatever.
It is speed of thought that marks out the really top class players and Harper has that in abundance.
When you add that to pace and his physical attributes you have something special. At is age he is the best I've seen since Bryan Robson..... although in fairness our youth set up has been pretty poor until recently.
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The only question we should ask is - can he play in the first team? Answer - yes. Therefore, pay him what a young first team regular player is worth, sign him up long with triggers to uplift based on appearances and what division we're in and with a big release clause. I guess only if it were that easy...............
A big point for me is why we keep being in this position with promising young players, imagine if we'd taken the time to properly keep and develop the likes of
Chris Woods, Kemar Roofe, Izzy Brown, Tyler Roberts, Berahino (maybe unsavable though tbf)......
We're now in a position with a couple/ few new promising lads so lets see if the club are in a better place to deal with them................?
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It is speed of thought that marks out the really top class players and Harper has that in abundance.
When you add that to pace and his physical attributes you have something special. At is age he is the best I've seen since Bryan Robson..... although in fairness our youth set up has been pretty poor until recently.
Indeed he is mate. I watched Robbo as a kid on Saturday mornings in the Birmingham Intermediate League (Third Team) and you could see he had it all, but i genuinely think Rekeem can be as good. Of course it is all about how he handles himself. BR did not have the temptations that will be put in front of Rekeem, but even at age 19 his movement is better then Robbo's ever was, and he looks to have all the attributes. Sadly I am beginning to think he will be moving on.
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Wow! Some of the comments in here are incredible. Harper is nowhere near as good as Bryan Robson was. Robson is possibly, probably, the most complete midfielder England has ever produced. Harper is very promising, but he's not in Robbo's league.
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Wow! Some of the comments in here are incredible. Harper is nowhere near as good as Bryan Robson was. Robson is possibly, probably, the most complete midfielder England has ever produced. Harper is very promising, but he's not in Robbo's league.
Have to agree about Robbo one of the few truly world class players this country has produced in last 40 years. Is Rakeem capable of reaching those standards ? its far too soon to say !
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Wow! Some of the comments in here are incredible. Harper is nowhere near as good as Bryan Robson was. Robson is possibly, probably, the most complete midfielder England has ever produced. Harper is very promising, but he's not in Robbo's league.
Absolutely right, but I do hope Rakem aspires to “Pops†level of greatness. If he does, he won’t be with us long though.
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Wow! Some of the comments in here are incredible. Harper is nowhere near as good as Bryan Robson was. Robson is possibly, probably, the most complete midfielder England has ever produced. Harper is very promising, but he's not in Robbo's league.
exactly this.
comparing the two is just silly to be honest. you cannot compare Harper when he has only been in and around the squad since January.
its silly comments/views like this that put unnecessary pressure on kids.
like ive said, hes a good prospect, but hes not exactly set the world alight in my opinion.
different types of players but harper is 19, barnes is 21. lets see first if Harper is as good as barnes in 2 years. i will say no but i hope he is.
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He's quite clearly a great prospect and the best we have
If we do not give him a deal that merits his ability and future potential then we're going to lose him
I do not blame him one iota for trying to wait and haggle because he probably will get a better offer elsewhere
Harper should be the future of this football club given his talents.. I hope we do not throw it away.
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We could have signed him up in the summer before he broke into the team for a small sum and now his agent's are rightly going to be seeking a massively inflated package, more mismanagement at board level.
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We could have signed him up in the summer before he broke into the team for a small sum and now his agent's are rightly going to be seeking a massively inflated package, more mismanagement at board level.
who knows though? his advisers might of been asking for something ridiculous back then despite him only making 1 appearance.
i think if RH genuinely believes in his ability then he will get plenty of more contracts to demand bigger sums. its more about playing than what he is earning at the moment i think for him.
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I see a lot of posts raving about Harper but for me there has been little end product to get me excited, I totally appreciate he is still a young man and could potentially grow into an important figure however going forward I would expect Rekeem to start offering more of a goal threat. Otherwise he will start to become a bit of a luxury player, graceful and confident on the ball but making no impact on where it matters.
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Someone will give him £20,000 a week.
£20,000 a week over 3 years is around £3m. His transfer value by the summer could be around that if he has a strong end to the season.
For a premier league club I think that's a gamble worth taking. If its not working out in 2 years you'll still likely recoup most of your money. If it does you have a young English midfielder who could be worth £10m plus. The agent will surely be trying to convince clubs of this.
I do think if he goes to a premier league club he will be back on loan in the championship in January 2020 though.
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Someone will give him £20,000 a week.
£20,000 a week over 3 years is around £3m. His transfer value by the summer could be around that if he has a strong end to the season.
For a premier league club I think that's a gamble worth taking. If its not working out in 2 years you'll still likely recoup most of your money. If it does you have a young English midfielder who could be worth £10m plus. The agent will surely be trying to convince clubs of this.
I do think if he goes to a premier league club he will be back on loan in the championship in January 2020 though.
But i think thats what is the problem with football today with young footballers coming through. he has made less than 20 senior appearances but then warrants earning what most people do in a year, he earns in a week? it is completely ridiculous and by going from one extreme to the other that is why so many talented footballers then grow into gambling problems and various other issues because they are earning enormous amounts of money at such a young age.
i may be wrong, but i would say at the moment he earns anything from £1,000-£4,000 a week? what is wrong with offering him a new 3-4 year deal and starts on £8,000 a week which is still a huge amount of money and if he makes 25 appearances next season in all competitions it then goes to £12,000 a week.
i think the new deal has to be structured to allow him to still have motivation to play football rather than spend money. just my opinion though.
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Wow! Some of the comments in here are incredible. Harper is nowhere near as good as Bryan Robson was. Robson is possibly, probably, the most complete midfielder England has ever produced. Harper is very promising, but he's not in Robbo's league.
The comparison I made was with the young Bryan Robson. I watched him from age 16, and he was 18 when he made his first team debut . I do not need you to point out that Rekeem is not yet in Robbo's league.
By the way the most complete midfielder England ever produced was from Dudley and his name was Duncan Edwards.
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But i think thats what is the problem with football today with young footballers coming through. he has made less than 20 senior appearances but then warrants earning what most people do in a year, he earns in a week? it is completely ridiculous and by going from one extreme to the other that is why so many talented footballers then grow into gambling problems and various other issues because they are earning enormous amounts of money at such a young age.
i may be wrong, but i would say at the moment he earns anything from £1,000-£4,000 a week? what is wrong with offering him a new 3-4 year deal and starts on £8,000 a week which is still a huge amount of money and if he makes 25 appearances next season in all competitions it then goes to £12,000 a week.
i think the new deal has to be structured to allow him to still have motivation to play football rather than spend money. just my opinion though.
Makes perfect logical sense but that doesn’t matter these days. Why would he accept a deal like that when plenty of clubs will offer £20k/week minimum right away?
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Should be in the team. All we can do is pick the best 11 and he is in it
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Should be in the team. All we can do is pick the best 11 and he is in it
Why would you give him any further time on the pitch before he signs a new deal?
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Why would you give him any further time on the pitch before he signs a new deal?
Ouch!! But I know what you mean.
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Why would you give him any further time on the pitch before he signs a new deal?
We need him. The selected midfield was a joke we were way too slow and made it easy for Blues 1st half.
Him signing is maybe dependent on Premier or Championship footie next year. At this moment nobody knows.
Brunt, Livermore, Harper, Edwards is good right now.
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We need him. The selected midfield was a joke we were way too slow and made it easy for Blues 1st half.
Him signing is maybe dependent on Premier or Championship footie next year. At this moment nobody knows.
Brunt, Livermore, Harper, Edwards is good right now.
Shocked to see Rekeem drop off the first page. We need him now. Surely it is not beyond Jenkins to structure an offer that covers one salary if we stay in the Championship, and another level if we are promoted.
To pick him just to sit on the bench, is ridiculous and amateurish, but if the intention is to punish him for not signing, then leave him out altogether and move on.
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I think its more a case of Shan going 'back to basics' and going with the tried and tested.
He knows what he's going to get from Mozza and Brunt and obviously places a lot of trust in them. Livermore is then the most mobile of the remaining 'experienced' players.
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I think its more a case of Shan going 'back to basics' and going with the tried and tested.
He knows what he's going to get from Mozza and Brunt and obviously places a lot of trust in them. Livermore is then the most mobile of the remaining 'experienced' players.
Made me laugh ;D
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I have a family member who plays in the championship and going by what he earns I would say Harper's agents will be looking for about 15 grand a week if we stay in the championship and he is willing to stay.
If we go up then I reckon 25 grand a week.
You then have bonuses on top.
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I head rumours a few weeks ago that he is already in advanced talks with a premier league club? Putting 2 + 2 together and getting 5, but maybe that’s why he has been getting limited time?
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I do not understand why he has to be left out. After all, our loan players will leave the club at the end of the season. What's the difference?
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he just seems to go missing for a lot of the game when ive ever seen him but try not to be too hard on him as he is only 18. he tends to do a great turn a burst of pace that everyone remembers but then for 25 minutes after he goes unnoticed.
im a firm believer if you control the midfield, you should win the game so you just cannot afford in my opinion to have a CM who isnt really influencing the game.
weve won 3 on the bounce too, yes 2 results could have gone either way but cant put him back in the 11 when we are winning without him.
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I have a family member who plays in the championship and going by what he earns I would say Harper's agents will be looking for about 15 grand a week if we stay in the championship and he is willing to stay.
If we go up then I reckon 25 grand a week.
You then have bonuses on top.
He's also very close friends with Tyler Roberts who wanted £10k plus with us before he left for Leeds, so I would imagine Rekeem and his agent would easily be looking for 15kish as a starting figure.
You then have to factor in that a mid table premier league team could easily be offering him a starting figure of £20k a week as the fee they will most likely have to pay us will be quite low.
Could be a bargain for a premier league team, factoring in his age, if you were to give him say £25k a week and it didn't work out within 18 months-2years, you would still be able to sell him for the amount you have invested in him.
Personally, I would be very surprised if he is still here come the start of the season.
I think it would benefit Harper more if he continued his development here for another couple of years before moving on to a 'bigger' team. Unless he signs for a lower end prem team I cant see him playing many games if at all, and would probably see him out on loan to a championship team within 6 months.
Lets just hope the club have learnt from this and have a look at the next crop of youngsters coming through and see what contracts they are on before throwing them into the limelight.
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He's also very close friends with Tyler Roberts who wanted £10k plus with us before he left for Leeds, so I would imagine Rekeem and his agent would easily be looking for 15kish as a starting figure.
You then have to factor in that a mid table premier league team could easily be offering him a starting figure of £20k a week as the fee they will most likely have to pay us will be quite low.
Could be a bargain for a premier league team, factoring in his age, if you were to give him say £25k a week and it didn't work out within 18 months-2years, you would still be able to sell him for the amount you have invested in him.
Personally, I would be very surprised if he is still here come the start of the season.
I think it would benefit Harper more if he continued his development here for another couple of years before moving on to a 'bigger' team. Unless he signs for a lower end prem team I cant see him playing many games if at all, and would probably see him out on loan to a championship team within 6 months.
Lets just hope the club have learnt from this and have a look at the next crop of youngsters coming through and see what contracts they are on before throwing them into the limelight.
Throwing them into the limelight indeed! But for poor management by Moore & Jones , Harper should have been in and around the team all season. It is the lack of opportunity which will drive the kids away, not just inflated salaries.
If we are still in the Championship next season we will rely heavily on some of those kids.
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I wouldn't be starting the lad right now , I imagine his heads all over the place and thats not what we need for the run in .
Being honest he's shown potential but I for one haven't been swept away with it , naturally he has faults to his game at his age but I do think a few were getting a bit carried away with him . Certainly his last few starting games had dropped standards and the basics like tracking his man were glaring , again natural af his age.
His agents at this stage really need to look after him , money shouldn't always come first at this age
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I feel that his agent (and Rekeem) are just looking at the money.
Has Shan dropped him beacuse he isn't really trying ala Sado Berahino?
Trying to be Billy Big B0££0cks?
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What happens with Rekeem will set the scene for our next few years. Are we really committed to keeping and developing a bunch of home grown players? In my view, we should build a team around him, Field, Edwards and Tullloch. Four home-grown players.
Personally, I'd look at in the way that a three or four year contract could mean we have an asset who can be sold for millions even if it doesn't work out perfectly here in the next couple of years so we'd more than make our money back.What's the alternative - pay a few million and 30k a week for another average championship midfielder who won't get much better?
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What happens with Rekeem will set the scene for our next few years. Are we really committed to keeping and developing a bunch of home grown players? In my view, we should build a team around him, Field, Edwards and Tullloch. Four home-grown players.
Personally, I'd look at in the way that a three or four year contract could mean we have an asset who can be sold for millions even if it doesn't work out perfectly here in the next couple of years so we'd more than make our money back.What's the alternative - pay a few million and 30k a week for another average championship midfielder who won't get much better?
The problem is, if for example we do use Rekeem to set the scene for the future, then whats stopping the likes of Rogers, Tulloch, Edwards running down their current contracts and demanding 30,000 a week.
Harper seems talented don't get me wrong, but he's not worth 30 grand a week at the moment. Come the summer if we are still in this division that would make him one of the highest earners in the team, he hasn't justified that yet.
Someone posted previously about how he should be offered a contract of say £15/18k a week contract now, which rises to £25k if we get promoted etc etc.
We would easily litter his contract with incentives, lets not forget he's only just gone 19 and has played 12 senior games for us. No goals, no assists.
Doing a quick google search (granted it may not be 100% correct) states Sam Field is on £10k a week, Sam has also contributed more to the first team, Harper shouldn't be being offered anything over £16-20k at the most in my opinion.
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The problem is, if for example we do use Rekeem to set the scene for the future, then whats stopping the likes of Rogers, Tulloch, Edwards running down their current contracts and demanding 30,000 a week.
Harper seems talented don't get me wrong, but he's not worth 30 grand a week at the moment. Come the summer if we are still in this division that would make him one of the highest earners in the team, he hasn't justified that yet.
Someone posted previously about how he should be offered a contract of say £15/18k a week contract now, which rises to £25k if we get promoted etc etc.
We would easily litter his contract with incentives, lets not forget he's only just gone 19 and has played 12 senior games for us. No goals, no assists.
Doing a quick google search (granted it may not be 100% correct) states Sam Field is on £10k a week, Sam has also contributed more to the first team, Harper shouldn't be being offered anything over £16-20k at the most in my opinion.
I’d add that Sam’s had his contract renewed atleast twice since he broke through, so he impressed people to get that 10k
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This is football in 2019, if we want to keep the talented kids then like it or not we have to pay the wages otherwise they go elsewhere. Is it worth giving him £15k a week with an incentive of extra if we go up and possibly getting a big fee in the future or do we say "nah kid, yow ay worth it, tarraaa" and see him pick the wages up elsewhere whilst we keep scrambling round for freebies, loans and rewarding the old guard year on year ?
This season has shown the midfield needs youth and players who can run, Harper is both. To buy the finished article will cost more than we either can afford or will spend so why not keep what we have and let them learn on the job and reap the rewards in the long term. He has already said that Barry is the best teacher he's had.
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It's interesting that the arguments for RH not yet signing a contract are presumed to be about money.
Money could be a factor, but there could also be other factors, not the least of which is his personal development.
There is a trend for young UK players to move to Germany, mainly because the football ethos there is considered better for their development than here in the UK.
Perhaps he's considering offers from there?
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It's interesting that the arguments for RH not yet signing a contract are presumed to be about money.
Money could be a factor, but there could also be other factors, not the least of which is his personal development.
There is a trend for young UK players to move to Germany, mainly because the football ethos there is considered better for their development than here in the UK.
Perhaps he's considering offers from there?
rumour is it’s uk/prem based. No proof either way but I’d guess he’ll stay in the country.
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This is football in 2019, if we want to keep the talented kids then like it or not we have to pay the wages otherwise they go elsewhere. Is it worth giving him £15k a week with an incentive of extra if we go up and possibly getting a big fee in the future or do we say "nah kid, yow ay worth it, tarraaa" and see him pick the wages up elsewhere whilst we keep scrambling round for freebies, loans and rewarding the old guard year on year ?
This season has shown the midfield needs youth and players who can run, Harper is both. To buy the finished article will cost more than we either can afford or will spend so why not keep what we have and let them learn on the job and reap the rewards in the long term. He has already said that Barry is the best teacher he's had.
but just youth and players that can run dont win football games im sorry. otherwise lets just sign a load of young sprinters. there are other qualities required to play in midfield, and at the moment IMO he does not show them but hopefully that develops in time. its such a fine line but you cant just agree to a young players silly demands because hes young and got some potential. i would agree if he had set the world alight but he really hasnt and has played 12 senior games.
there is only chris wood playing for a club in a higher division than us who we let go as a young player yet we seem to get slated for it all of the time. has it ever dawned upon people that maybe some are just not good enough? Yan Dhanda has played 4 times for a poor swansea side all season and Izzy Brown has played once for leeds. Jerome Sinclair is on loan at Oxford too.
IMO if Rekeem Haper is asking for anything more than £10-12k a week then we should let him move on IMO. we have had a good look at him and he is not worth anything more than that taking into account it is 2019 and his current performances at this stage of his career. there is plenty of time for him to get millions more if he proves his potential.
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Young players/kids should try to remember some times, Short term loss for long time gain is the better road to take some times & our club should remember there is a going rate for wages & pay it.
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Young players/kids should try to remember some times, Short term loss for long time gain is the better road to take some times & our club should remember there is a going rate for wages & pay it.
Unless you're exceptional, it's the only way to take.
Tend to agree with others, RH is promising, but he's not exceptional.
If he recognises that, then it's the development opportunity that should be the governing factor, not the money.
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but just youth and players that can run dont win football games im sorry. otherwise lets just sign a load of young sprinters. there are other qualities required to play in midfield, and at the moment IMO he does not show them but hopefully that develops in time. its such a fine line but you cant just agree to a young players silly demands because hes young and got some potential. i would agree if he had set the world alight but he really hasnt and has played 12 senior games.
there is only chris wood playing for a club in a higher division than us who we let go as a young player yet we seem to get slated for it all of the time. has it ever dawned upon people that maybe some are just not good enough? Yan Dhanda has played 4 times for a poor swansea side all season and Izzy Brown has played once for leeds. Jerome Sinclair is on loan at Oxford too.
IMO if Rekeem Haper is asking for anything more than £10-12k a week then we should let him move on IMO. we have had a good look at him and he is not worth anything more than that taking into account it is 2019 and his current performances at this stage of his career. there is plenty of time for him to get millions more if he proves his potential.
In his time in the team he has shown he is more than capable at this level and possibly above, he offers more than others we have, he is happy to run with the ball which others cannot do, he's a kid learning his trade so nothing to do with signing young sprinters. One minute he's being compared to Cunningham, the next he's not good enough for us.
As for Izzy Brown you say played once for Leeds? If he had stayed he would have been a regular here. Have a look at his injury record then you'll see why he's hardly played. I notice you also omitted to mention two others at Leeds, Roofe and Roberts, they seem to have made the grade at this level okay, Roofe via Oxford but Roberts straight from here yet he also was not deemed good enough for us to pay the going rate. Thats all is it the "going rate".
Has it ever dawned on some theat they will not be world beaters after a few games ?
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In his time in the team he has shown he is more than capable at this level and possibly above, he offers more than others we have, he is happy to run with the ball which others cannot do, he's a kid learning his trade so nothing to do with signing young sprinters. One minute he's being compared to Cunningham, the next he's not good enough for us.
As for Izzy Brown you say played once for Leeds? If he had stayed he would have been a regular here. Have a look at his injury record then you'll see why he's hardly played. I notice you also omitted to mention two others at Leeds, Roofe and Roberts, they seem to have made the grade at this level okay, Roofe via Oxford but Roberts straight from here yet he also was not deemed good enough for us to pay the going rate. Thats all is it the "going rate".
Has it ever dawned on some theat they will not be world beaters after a few games ?
The comparison with Cunningham is interesting. I’ve only seen him in a few games on telly, but can’t help but be impressed with his uncanny ability of balance. It’s not quite as finely tuned as Laurie, but it’s there. That’s not something you can easily acquire with practice. It’s a gift. And when a player possesses it, it gives them valuable time on the ball to do all the other things. He’s nowhere near the finished article, but I believe other coaches have spotted this capability, and would do anything to get their hands on him. I desperately hope he stays, because we desperately need this type of player. Again, it seems that the issue of money is clouding a decision being made quickly. Fingers crossed.
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Might be clutching at straws but Albion official account posted five hours ago pictures of Edwards' and harpers' shirts and names with diamonds next to their names.
No comment. No explanation?
Is that a hint of something to do with them or am I getting carried away??
Albion don't tend to post random pictures of shirts and names...?
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I find it absolutely incredible that anyone could compare Harper with Laurie Cunningham :o :o
Harper looks promising at times, but Laurie was a genius, genuinely two footed, pace, trickery - he had everything. I read somewhere he was the only Real Madrid player ever to be applauded by both sets of fans at the Nou Camp
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I find it absolutely incredible that anyone could compare Harper with Laurie Cunningham :o :o
Harper looks promising at times, but Laurie was a genius, genuinely two footed, pace, trickery - he had everything. I read somewhere he was the only Real Madrid player ever to be applauded by both sets of fans at the Nou Camp
Nothing wrong with comparing, especially if there are comparisons.
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Might be clutching at straws but Albion official account posted five hours ago pictures of Edwards' and harpers' shirts and names with diamonds next to their names.
No comment. No explanation?
Is that a hint of something to do with them or am I getting carried away??
Albion don't tend to post random pictures of shirts and names...?
Wondered that myself. Wishful thinking perhaps.
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In his time in the team he has shown he is more than capable at this level and possibly above, he offers more than others we have, he is happy to run with the ball which others cannot do, he's a kid learning his trade so nothing to do with signing young sprinters. One minute he's being compared to Cunningham, the next he's not good enough for us.
As for Izzy Brown you say played once for Leeds? If he had stayed he would have been a regular here. Have a look at his injury record then you'll see why he's hardly played. I notice you also omitted to mention two others at Leeds, Roofe and Roberts, they seem to have made the grade at this level okay, Roofe via Oxford but Roberts straight from here yet he also was not deemed good enough for us to pay the going rate. Thats all is it the "going rate".
Has it ever dawned on some theat they will not be world beaters after a few games ?
I wont comment on Izzy Brown as to be honest I haven't seen him play since he left here, nor does he seem to have made many appearances - injuries and such.
Roofe has worked his way up from the lower leagues, he left us in 2015 - he would have been 23, we were in the premier league, I think the fact he went to Oxford, and looking at his stats at Leeds, hes only really started to find his feet in the championship since last season.
Roberts, I don't think we've done wrong in letting go, his record this season isn't amazing (granted its his first full season in senior football) but he has played 22 games with 3 goals, hasn't really set the world alight in my opinion, would I have him in our starting 11 at present, no.
As others have said, Rekeem does have potential no one is denying that, but so does Leko and many other academy players. I wouldn't be concerned with him leaving if his wage demands are too high. That's of course if that's what the issue is with signing a deal. Would love to see him stay and become a good player before moving on, as opposed to jumping ship too early and stunting his career.
Hopefully he has a look at the other younger lads who have left our academy for bigger clubs and see that it doesn't always work out, with Yan, Jerome Sinclair and Izzy Brown being the main examples.
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Problem: It may seem to these guys that they either stunt their careers at Albion waiting for the old guard to shift or stunt their careers elsewhere for more money. Which would you choose?
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Problem: It may seem to these guys that they either stunt their careers at Albion waiting for the old guard to shift or stunt their careers elsewhere for more money. Which would you choose?
In Harpers case its a no brainer , Barry , Mozza and Brunt all on their last lap as such . The only other competition is Livermore or Field , with respect to him if he departs its down to money.
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I wont comment on Izzy Brown as to be honest I haven't seen him play since he left here, nor does he seem to have made many appearances - injuries and such.
Roofe has worked his way up from the lower leagues, he left us in 2015 - he would have been 23, we were in the premier league, I think the fact he went to Oxford, and looking at his stats at Leeds, hes only really started to find his feet in the championship since last season.
Roberts, I don't think we've done wrong in letting go, his record this season isn't amazing (granted its his first full season in senior football) but he has played 22 games with 3 goals, hasn't really set the world alight in my opinion, would I have him in our starting 11 at present, no.
As others have said, Rekeem does have potential no one is denying that, but so does Leko and many other academy players. I wouldn't be concerned with him leaving if his wage demands are too high. That's of course if that's what the issue is with signing a deal. Would love to see him stay and become a good player before moving on, as opposed to jumping ship too early and stunting his career.
Hopefully he has a look at the other younger lads who have left our academy for bigger clubs and see that it doesn't always work out, with Yan, Jerome Sinclair and Izzy Brown being the main examples.
did try and post previously and put "agreed,great post" but for some strange reason it was removed.
agree with everything youve said there mate.
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Nothing wrong with comparing, especially if there are comparisons.
Yes but my point is that in no way can Harper likened to Cunningham - there simply is no comparison
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Yes but my point is that in no way can Harper likened to Cunningham - there simply is no comparison
Believe it is his gait and running style as opposed to any parallels regardig ability.
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did try and post previously and put "agreed,great post" but for some strange reason it was removed.
agree with everything youve said there mate.
I refer you to the site rules:
"Please do not post one word posts, if you agree/disagree with a fellow poster please explain why instead of just 'agreed' etc."
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Believe it is his gait and running style as opposed to any parallels regardig ability.
That was exactly what I was referring to Jacko. Being only able to view games on the telly, and usually in a bar (refusing to vacate my barstool because pole position is all important to me), quite often I can only identify our players from a distance by their running style. Harper has a very distinctive one.
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I wont comment on Izzy Brown as to be honest I haven't seen him play since he left here, nor does he seem to have made many appearances - injuries and such.
Roofe has worked his way up from the lower leagues, he left us in 2015 - he would have been 23, we were in the premier league, I think the fact he went to Oxford, and looking at his stats at Leeds, hes only really started to find his feet in the championship since last season.
Roberts, I don't think we've done wrong in letting go, his record this season isn't amazing (granted its his first full season in senior football) but he has played 22 games with 3 goals, hasn't really set the world alight in my opinion, would I have him in our starting 11 at present, no.
As others have said, Rekeem does have potential no one is denying that, but so does Leko and many other academy players. I wouldn't be concerned with him leaving if his wage demands are too high. That's of course if that's what the issue is with signing a deal. Would love to see him stay and become a good player before moving on, as opposed to jumping ship too early and stunting his career.
Hopefully he has a look at the other younger lads who have left our academy for bigger clubs and see that it doesn't always work out, with Yan, Jerome Sinclair and Izzy Brown being the main examples.
Having not watched every Leeds game I have no idea how Roberts does each week but seems to be doing okay and did well against us recently. Roofe who knows if he had stayed would have saved us a few quid in the process. If we don't give them game time we will never know and as a club we seem reluctant to give them games whilst clubs around us seem happy to do so.
Izzy Brown would have played many more games if not for some bad injuries which seem to have affected him, again another who could have saved us money but had his head turned.
If their demands are out of touch then yes we should always let them go but as a club we're happy to keep some on the gravy train but reluctant to see if we have gems of our own.
Would Statham, Bennett etc be given a chance these days or we would we dismiss them after a few games?
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did try and post previously and put "agreed,great post" but for some strange reason it was removed.
agree with everything youve said there mate.
i think there is a rule on the site that posts that add nothing, (ie, thumbs up or agree or great post) will be removed. I sort of get it as I have seen on other sites reams of posts which just consist of an emoticon and its pretty messy to be honest.
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i think there is a rule on the site that posts that add nothing, (ie, thumbs up or agree or great post) will be removed. I sort of get it as I have seen on other sites reams of posts which just consist of an emoticon and its pretty messy to be honest.
i completely get that but it has to be consistent surely? there is no point arguing anyway anymore. i feel certain members are targeted on here with having their posts constantly removed for invalid reasons. this post will probably get deleted too but im not too fussed as im not going to post on here again.
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i completely get that but it has to be consistent surely? there is no point arguing anyway anymore. i feel certain members are targeted on here with having their posts constantly removed for invalid reasons. this post will probably get deleted too but im not too fussed as im not going to post on here again.
Your post was deleted because we don't allow one word answers or 'great post' types. They are not constructive. What we don't want is post after post with those kind of answers. It adds nothing to the forum.
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Hope he comes back in tomorrow.
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Having not watched every Leeds game I have no idea how Roberts does each week but seems to be doing okay and did well against us recently. Roofe who knows if he had stayed would have saved us a few quid in the process. If we don't give them game time we will never know and as a club we seem reluctant to give them games whilst clubs around us seem happy to do so.
Izzy Brown would have played many more games if not for some bad injuries which seem to have affected him, again another who could have saved us money but had his head turned.
If their demands are out of touch then yes we should always let them go but as a club we're happy to keep some on the gravy train but reluctant to see if we have gems of our own.
Would Statham, Bennett etc be given a chance these days or we would we dismiss them after a few games?
Can’t compare 2019 with the mid-1970s unfortunately. There’s far more at stake now in terms of need to avoid relegation. Very few PL clubs can afford be patient blooding youngsters.
For the sale reason we couldn’t afford the luxury of blooding Roofe, Roberts, Wood etc in the PL, nor would Harper of Edwards have been given this season’s opportunities if we were still in the PL. Blooding Academy lads in the Championship is comparatively much easier.
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For goodness sake get this lad back in the team NOW.
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Absolute joke leaving him out. OK he hasn’t signed a contract. It might be down to what league we’re in next season. The phrase cutting your nose off to spite your face comes to mind.
Why not just give yourself the best chance of promotion?
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Harper's performance yesterday suggested to me he is either low on confidence, his head is elsewhere or he is genuinely confused by events.
He added very little to the game, which is a shame as he has done well.
It made me think he has made his mind up and is going elsewhere. The introduction of Phillips was a huge contrast just in terms of energy, work rate and contribution.
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Sauid the exact same thing to my mate at the game yesterday, he's made his mind up and he's decided his future lies elsewhere.
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Even if he thinks he might leave, there is no excuse for his half hearted non performance yesterday.
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If he is set to leave club there's another reason that lying and Jenkins need to f off. Running this club into ground with their decision making and lack of a plan.
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A very promising young player who I hope does not leave. However, a totally unacceptable display yesterday. Showed no desire, no heart and no real interest in my opinion.
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Sauid the exact same thing to my mate at the game yesterday, he's made his mind up and he's decided his future lies elsewhere.
You came to that conclusion after a poor performance?
In that case the whole squad has been leaving to go elsewhere for the past couple of seasons. ???
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urine poor management hasn't helped.
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urine poor management hasn't helped.
I'd like to agree with you gazberb but its all down to money, footballers today are mercenaries/bankers just £ sign.
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There seems to be a problem at our club that we can’t hold on to promising youngsters coming through or let youngsters go who prove that they are good enough. If it's down to unrealistic money aspirations then fair enough but if there are other issues management needs to be addressing these problems.we probably have in the next few years our greatest crop of emerging talent who could push this club on to the next level and it would be nice to see these players on long contracts down the Albion.
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I'd like to agree with you gazberb but its all down to money, footballers today are mercenaries/bankers just £ sign.
I agree 100% with you on that. Few good games and they think they are the next big thing when in reality only a few will ever be.
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At least looked interested today.
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You came to that conclusion after a poor performance?
In that case the whole squad has been leaving to go elsewhere for the past couple of seasons. ???
He didn't try against Preston, hence that comment. He looked totally disinterested.
Our players have been interested in the season, just lack a lot of energy. Our tempo or lack of, is a concern.
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There seems to be a problem at our club that we can’t hold on to promising youngsters coming through or let youngsters go who prove that they are good enough. If it's down to unrealistic money aspirations then fair enough but if there are other issues management needs to be addressing these problems.we probably have in the next few years our greatest crop of emerging talent who could push this club on to the next level and it would be nice to see these players on long contracts down the Albion.
You mean like Dawson?
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You mean like Dawson?
Dawson had made close to 100 first team appearances by the time we signed him. Not really the same situation
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There seems to be a problem at our club that we can’t hold on to promising youngsters coming through or let youngsters go who prove that they are good enough. If it's down to unrealistic money aspirations then fair enough but if there are other issues management needs to be addressing these problems.we probably have in the next few years our greatest crop of emerging talent who could push this club on to the next level and it would be nice to see these players on long contracts down the Albion.
The only one I would say who has gone on to do well is Chris Wood.
Kemar Roofe wasn't really a youngster when he left, and he left for the lower leagues and has took a couple years to really come to terms with the leagues, he was 25 when he had his first good season in the championship.
Izzy Brown - cant really comment on him as he hasn't really played regular football.
Yan Dhanda - played 3 games for Swansea this season.
Tyler Roberts - Was let go due to his wage demands. Has 3 goals in 21 games this season for a Leeds United team who are above us in the league. You only have to do a quick twitter search to see there are quite a few Leeds fans who don't rate him as much as some of our fans seem too.
Back on topic - Yes Rekeem has potential, but he also needs to add a lot to his game if he believes he is going to play at the top. I fully expect him to leave in the summer, he will probably go to a prem team and not make any appearances next year before being loaned out.
Do we look at Rekeem as being better than he is because we have had to watch our slow laboured midfield for the last 2-3 seasons?
For what it's worth, I would rather have Sam Field in my midfield than Harper.
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Half the issue is your league position. If you're in the Prem then your youth need to come through good enough to play at that level. If they are only Championship quality then you have to decide if they're worth keeping - they may develop into a good enough player, they may not, or you may have plans to buy players in. The lower down the leagues you go the easier it is to bring youth through into the first team.
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Izzy Brown was lured away by Chelsea’s Russian money, which included, I believe, a £1 million payment to his parents! I think any lad would find that a hard temptation to resist.
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Izzy Brown was lured away by Chelsea’s Russian money, which included, I believe, a £1 million payment to his parents! I think any lad would find that a hard temptation to resist.
Similar with Yan Dhanda I believe too.
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Criminal that we haven't sorted a contract for him by February. Him going on a free will highlight how badly ran the club is.
Raw talent needs more game time at this level but could be a feature for years to come is going to be allowed to leave is just horrific by us
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Absolutely terrible first half. Looked like a lost puppy. Second half was like he had dynamite stuck up his backside. He started winning the ball back, making direct runs forward, scored a goal, working to find space.
No doubt the lad has talent with the ball at his feet but he has so much work to do off the ball.
Huge talent though at only 18 and really pleased for him to get his first goal - finally.
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Absolutely terrible first half. Looked like a lost puppy. Second half was like he had dynamite stuck up his backside. He started winning the ball back, making direct runs forward, scored a goal, working to find space.
No doubt the lad has talent with the ball at his feet but he has so much work to do off the ball.
Huge talent though at only 18 and really pleased for him to get his first goal - finally.
As you say, he's definitely guilty of occasionally going missing; that's an entirely reasonable criticism. But that's pretty normal when a player is 18 - it's incredible rare for a player to be able to influence the game at all times at that age. I'm very frustrated with fans writing off Harper and Field already - they both have great potential and I hope we keep hold of both of them so they can realise that potential in our midfield, rather than someone else's. That said, the play offs are "win at all costs" games so I'm not sure I'd pick either to start in the play offs.
Great strike by Harper today, and it was clear as day how much it meant to him. Great to see.
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Yeah, really poor first half, he just looked a bit disinterested and half hearted. Second half was much better. I think the approach from his fellow players may influence him a little? Like first half nobody had a good game and most were guilty of not putting the effort in. The older pro's should be setting the example for him.
And it's true that he's still only 18 so isn't the finished article and has a lot to learn.
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Criminal that we haven't sorted a contract for him by February. Him going on a free will highlight how badly ran the club is.
Raw talent needs more game time at this level but could be a feature for years to come is going to be allowed to leave is just horrific by us
How many more times will I have to read him not signing a contract is the club's fault?
Unless someone can provide specific details of what contract has been offered, what his demands are and what deals his agent might have in the pipeline, I would suggest that people should stop using this fiction as another stick with which to beat the club.
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Didn't think he was that bad first half, was the only one seeming prepared to run with the ball, the rest of the side were tippy tappy passes to the nearest player, Harper had a couple of decent runs and finished off a good performance with a goal, thats the player we know is there, these coaches need to get the best out of him on a consistent basis and the suits need to sort a contract out, he still has masses to learn but we've seen the good and the bad of him recently but remember he's still a kid learning his trade not the finished article by any means.
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I agree with most of what’s been said on here about his display today so won’t bother repeating. Just one point of clarification though, he is 19 years old.
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Didn't think he was that bad first half, was the only one seeming prepared to run with the ball, the rest of the side were tippy tappy passes to the nearest player, Harper had a couple of decent runs and finished off a good performance with a goal, thats the player we know is there, these coaches need to get the best out of him on a consistent basis and the suits need to sort a contract out, he still has masses to learn but we've seen the good and the bad of him recently but remember he's still a kid learning his trade not the finished article by any means.
There was probably a 20 minute spell where he didn't touch the ball. He often pretends to be available calling for the ball to feet when the pass isn't even on. He's either hiding and short on confidence or doesn't have the football intelligence yet to find himself a bit more space to receive the ball.
It's this that I refer to when I say he has a lot of work to do off the ball.
Having said that he was nowhere near as bad as Johnasen who had his worst game in an Albion shirt today.
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I think he is a very talented player, but it is important he is managed correctly. He can turn past oponents with the ball and has a turn of pace, which our midfield is fairly short of. His goal yesterday will hopefully have boosted his confidence.
However, I'm not in favour of fielding a whole team of youngsters, as they don't usually have the character to fight back when the going gets tough.That's why every team needs 'leaders' out there, even if some of the 'leaders' are slightly less talented.
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A post from elsewhere:
not seen mention of it on here but very much looks like Harper threw his toys out on Saturday. Liked an instagram post showing Hourihane scoring against us.
Something to do with Tom Bates?? I know nothing about this. Same thing has been said by more than one person.
IF this is true, get the arsehole out of our club ASAP.
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Yeah he liked a post on Instagram, Tom Bates coaching posted a picture of hourahane with the caption ‘quality always rises to the top.’ Rekeem liked the post.
For what it’s worth, I have heard from more than one person that he’s pretty much sorted a deal with Watford.
Wouldn’t want to see him in the team tomorrow, would rather see Field play.
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He's a liability right now with his off the ball work.
He can go right to the top if he improves his off the ball effort and starts showing for the ball more. But right now the team drops to 10 men with him in the team out of possession as he only ever jogs back, never puts in a challenge, and generally seems to have very little defensive nous. He also consistently makes the least passes out of our 3 midfielders when he does play - too often he hides in midfield.
These are both things he can work out in which case he can become a very, very good central midfielder. But till he does he's a liability, certainly while he avoids contributing defensively. He doesn't provide enough attacking wise to make up for that.
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these big time Charlie's never learn do they?
Another Berahino in the making.
I thought his contract had another 12 months to run?
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Watford sounds abut right. E+S i think said Spurs and Norwich were in for him. He wouldnt get onto the Spurs bench but maybe Norwich he might get a look in.
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Yeah he liked a post on Instagram, Tom Bates coaching posted a picture of hourahane with the caption ‘quality always rises to the top.’ Rekeem liked the post.
For what it’s worth, I have heard from more than one person that he’s pretty much sorted a deal with Watford.
Wouldn’t want to see him in the team tomorrow, would rather see Field play.
Field is the better player anyway IMO.
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A real shame, thought he had all the attributes to be a top player but if he is making waves like this already at 18 he will eventually end up back down in the championship or lower for the rest of his career. To get to the top with football you have to have more than just play a bit, you need hard work and to be a good pro to name a few
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It's all hearsay and rumour at the moment so let's not write him off just yet?
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It's all hearsay and rumour at the moment so let's not write him off just yet?
My thoughts entirely Dan - well said.
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At the end of the game yesterday as soon as he got in his car you could see on his car screen he was straight on the phone to his agent.
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At the end of the game yesterday as soon as he got in his car you could see on his car screen he was straight on the phone to his agent.
Maybe he was saying, loved the atmosphere, I want to stay now.
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I sort of like him but I'm not sure of his position is,I think he might be better as a defensive midfielder than attacker.
But he seems muscle bound he was poor last night and for a 19 year old doesn't have much speed,not bothered if he stays or goes really
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He's a liability right now with his off the ball work.
He can go right to the top if he improves his off the ball effort and starts showing for the ball more. But right now the team drops to 10 men with him in the team out of possession as he only ever jogs back, never puts in a challenge, and generally seems to have very little defensive nous. He also consistently makes the least passes out of our 3 midfielders when he does play - too often he hides in midfield.
These are both things he can work out in which case he can become a very, very good central midfielder. But till he does he's a liability, certainly while he avoids contributing defensively. He doesn't provide enough attacking wise to make up for that.
I don't see any qualities in him, he hasn't got pace, he hasn't got a box to box work rate and his passing is limited to bad.
We all want out home grown players to do well but that makes us see them in better light than we should sometimes.
I wrote on here a while back I don't care if he stays or goes, and after him liking that post I prefer the latter as long as the fee isn't the paltry £200k for youth players and we get a decent sell on clause like with roofe.
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I don't see any qualities in him, he hasn't got pace, he has got a box to box work rate and his passing is limited to bad.
We all want out home grown players to do well but that makes us see them in better light than we should sometimes.
I wrote on here a while back I don't care if he stays or goes, and after him liking that post I prefer the latter as long as the fee isn't the paltry £200k for youth players and we get a decent sell on clause like with roofe.
His passing is excellent. His desire, not so much. Shan had to prompt him to press last night.
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I just don't see the hype yet , he's a big strong lad with the odd flash going forward . For the position he plays he doesn't work anywhere near hard enough yet , far too many times he lets his runner go .
There's talent in him no doubt but If he's off I'm not hugely bothered as with have more pressing issues elsewhere.
Honestly think he'd be making a big mistake leaving this early.
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I don't think he's as good as some people make out.
I think a number of factors helped him initially:
- We have had a very slow midfield for years, so him coming in freshened it up a little.
He's 'one of our own'
I just don't really see the hype in him to be honest, if he is to move to a premier league team, I honestly think he will just become a squad player before being sent out on loan, he is nowhere near ready for regular top flight football, his game reading and reactions are not good enough YET.
The best thing for his career would be to stay in the championship and get regular game time to really see what hes about, he's still young enough to learn and improve, it just depends on his desire to do that.
If I had to have one in my team, I would choose Sam Field over him all day.
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He seems to have gone backwards the more games hes played. When he first got into the team he was making good forward runs, putting tackles in and putting in a good all round midfield display, his last 5 or so performances have been a pale imitation. Maybe he misses having Barry in midfield talking him through games?
Glad he got a goal against Rotherham as I like to see our own young players score but if he doesn't want to stay then "turrah a bit".
Not sure where he sees himself playing but he isn't ready for the Premier league.
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He seems to have gone backwards the more games hes played. When he first got into the team he was making good forward runs, putting tackles in and putting in a good all round midfield display, his last 5 or so performances have been a pale imitation. Maybe he misses having Barry in midfield talking him through games?
Glad he got a goal against Rotherham as I like to see our own young players score but if he doesn't want to stay then "turrah a bit".
Not sure where he sees himself playing but he isn't ready for the Premier league.
I thought his performances tailed off when gossip started to get louder of him not signing the contract.
As you said, the last 5/6 performances haven't been the best, which takes you back around a month or 2 ago when they first rumours of him agreeing a deal with another club came about. I have seen from numerous people on twitter who are adamant he's off to Watford.
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I thought his performances tailed off when gossip started to get louder of him not signing the contract.
As you said, the last 5/6 performances haven't been the best, which takes you back around a month or 2 ago when they first rumours of him agreeing a deal with another club came about. I have seen from numerous people on twitter who are adamant he's off to Watford.
You may well be right about the contract issues, certainly makes a lot of sense.
Can't see him getting anywhere near Watford's midfield though...probably end up being loaned to a Championship club for the season!
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I thought his performances tailed off when gossip started to get louder of him not signing the contract.
As you said, the last 5/6 performances haven't been the best, which takes you back around a month or 2 ago when they first rumours of him agreeing a deal with another club came about. I have seen from numerous people on twitter who are adamant he's off to Watford.
I wonder if they wan't Leko as well. BOGOF.
I was startled the other night to see their performance level against the level of our loanee players.
The loanees were busting a gut and these pair couldn't be bothered.
I know Leko hasn't had much game time this season, based on his performances when he has been on you can see why.
These pair are local lads so you would think they would have a certain amount of affiliation with the club.
Personally I wouldn't be sorry to see the back of the pair of them
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I wonder if they wan't Leko as well. BOGOF.
I was startled the other night to see their performance level against the level of our loanee players.
The loanees were busting a gut and these pair couldn't be bothered.
I know Leko hasn't had much game time this season, based on his performances when he has been on you can see why.
These pair are local lads so you would think they would have a certain amount of affiliation with the club.
Personally I wouldn't be sorry to see the back of the pair of them
Yes please, get rid of Leko
For a young player, by all accounts a local lad, trying to break into the first team, and playing against local rivals in such an important game, he did himself no favours by jogging about hardly breaking a sweat, when he ought to have been busting a gut
We might has well have been down to 9 men
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Too many of these youngsters seem to have a bad attitude problem, maybe they think that they’re much better than they really are or expect a shed load of cash before they’ve even cemented a first team place.
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I sort of like him but I'm not sure of his position is,I think he might be better as a defensive midfielder than attacker.
But he seems muscle bound he was poor last night and for a 19 year old doesn't have much speed,not bothered if he stays or goes really
You got to be joking. He's the only midfielder at the club with a change of pace, maybe with Phillips. He's never a defensive midfielder. He can turn and go past players with the ball. Problem is for some reason, he hasn't been showing much of it lately.
Just a month ago most people were saying we should make sure he signs a new contract. Like alot of young players,he's just inconsistent.
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Thought I read he was off to Watford.
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Thought I read he was off to Watford.
Done deal someone said. ???
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Been handed a second and final contract offer according to Dowling's statement. Let's see what happens..
I feel shocked that we have only offered two contracts. Big Dave said talks were ongoing and getting closer months ago. I don't believe Big Dave would lie so what have we been doing?
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I feel shocked that we have only offered two contracts. Big Dave said talks were ongoing and getting closer months ago. I don't believe Big Dave would lie so what have we been doing?
Do you know the offers in those contracts?
I think Big Dave wasn't lying but probably not telling the whole truth.
The club feel that they have made a decent and final offer.
We've seen Harper, we've seen his talent, we've also seen that he downs tools if it doesn't go his way.
If he goes, he goes. There's lots of talent out there, we just need someone to spot and nurture it
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Do you know the offers in those contracts?
I think Big Dave wasn't lying but probably not telling the whole truth.
The club feel that they have made a decent and final offer.
We've seen Harper, we've seen his talent, we've also seen that he downs tools if it doesn't go his way.
If he goes, he goes. There's lots of talent out there, we just need someone to spot and nurture it
Exactly, the club cant continually be held to ransom by greedy agents and jumped up arrogant young players. Harper has done little in the last few months to justify any improved offer to what he has already been given. His attitude stinks to be honest, would rather get rid regardless of any apparent talent.
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We've seen Harper, we've seen his talent, we've also seen that he downs tools if it doesn't go his way.
Now where have I seen something similar about another up and coming Baggies young player????
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No more prima donnas please,we've had enough of them.
If they really want to play for us great its honest players with skills I want to see.
Who does Harper think he is? We've made him what he is so far,where's the gratitude ?
Give us say 3 years see how it goes for both sides,the grass isn't always greener is it? If he's hanging out for big money and no match playing leave then.
If no one comes in for him,hang him out to dry and don't sign him.
Sounds like bera brown etc,troublemakers.
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I think the whole “attitude†thing is unfair, as there is little evidence of that, other than him being inconsistent. Not signing a contract is just the way of the game now - if he wasn’t good enough we would dump him out on his backside, so I suppose he is entitled to see if he can get a better offer elsewhere.
It is annoying and frustrating though that we keep haemorrhaging players from our academy without getting any financial reward. I look at Norwich, who must have made over £40 million in recent seasons for their academy products, compared to us who have a load of players in the prem and league 1, and yet have made a lot less (Leeds strikerforce of Roofe and Roberts is probably currently worth about £20 million on it’s own).
We both need to start finding a way of retaining our best academy players, while also pushing the FA to start compensating us for how many we lose - we are after all putting in £2-£3 million a year to help English football.
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I think the whole “attitude†thing is unfair, as there is little evidence of that, other than him being inconsistent. Not signing a contract is just the way of the game now - if he wasn’t good enough we would dump him out on his backside, so I suppose he is entitled to see if he can get a better offer elsewhere.
It is annoying and frustrating though that we keep haemorrhaging players from our academy without getting any financial reward. I look at Norwich, who must have made over £40 million in recent seasons for their academy products, compared to us who have a load of players in the prem and league 1, and yet have made a lot less (Leeds strikerforce of Roofe and Roberts is probably currently worth about £20 million on it’s own).
We both need to start finding a way of retaining our best academy players, while also pushing the FA to start compensating us for how many we lose - we are after all putting in £2-£3 million a year to help English football.
and not trying, and not bothering to chase down, and standing there throwing his arms up , and a general can't be bothered type of body language.
Have you actually watched him recently?
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Barry gone , Morrison gone , Johansson gone back to Fulham , Field been out the picture and Phillips never far from injury .
Theres a huge chance right there to grab a first team shirt and develop week in , week out .
Harper could easily sign just a 2 year deal and see where both parties are 12 months in , I think he'd be badly advised to go and sit in a Premier League under 23 side or at best a bench when he lacks so many basics at the minute which is natural for his age.
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This accusation of an attitude is nothing short of a disgrace, he waved his arms once and didn’t look at 100% at it in one or two games which happens sometimes at 18!
Unconscious biased going on here.... why is that?
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This accusation of an attitude is nothing short of a disgrace, he waved his arms once and didn’t look at 100% at it in one or two games which happens sometimes at 18!
Unconscious biased going on here.... why is that?
I don't think Harper has a attitude problem , I just believe he's not as far along as many believe .
Pressing , keeping shape and watching his runners all need work on then again what 18 year old wouldn't need to work on it ?
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I don't think Harper has a attitude problem , I just believe he's not as far along as many believe .
Pressing , keeping shape and watching his runners all need work on then again what 18 year old wouldn't need to work on it ?
Yep he has a lot of work to do, can’t see it being at the Albion but at least we will money for him due to his age
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Probably end up at Leeds with the rest of our youth players. Roofe, Roberts and Brown.
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I sometimes wonder if people posting on here have any idea what it takes to be a professional footballer. These young lads have a rare and amazing ability. What they don't have is experience. So when they step up to the first team, the speed, the nous of opponents, the shouting of the crowd and the sheer physical effort is all new. Unsurprisingly, some take to it, some don't. Some, particularly creative, attacking players, will look slow on the uptake. Which 18/19 year old doesn't at times? I think we need to identify and nurture players with the talent and the right attitude so I hope Rakeem is here next year and playing regularly. Sadly, it's not looking likely
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It doesn't help anyone that we still do not have a manager.
As Harper, I imagine, a factor would be about the next manager's philosophy about style and whether they play kids.
I am not naive enough to say that money isn't the biggest factor but knowing whether you will get a look in is going to matter to some.
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Being cynical, just thought.
This contract offer is for the benefit of a tribunal. They consider contract offer, length of time at the club, appearances etc.
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CELTIC GIVE ENGLISH MIDFIELDER THE VIP TREATMENT FOR TROPHY DAY WIN OVER HEARTS
Being tempted by Champions League football
Source: https://videocelts.com/2019/05/blogs/latest-news/celtic-give-english-midfielder-the-vip-treatment-for-trophy-day-win-over-hearts/
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CELTIC GIVE ENGLISH MIDFIELDER THE VIP TREATMENT FOR TROPHY DAY WIN OVER HEARTS
Being tempted by Champions League football
Source: https://videocelts.com/2019/05/blogs/latest-news/celtic-give-english-midfielder-the-vip-treatment-for-trophy-day-win-over-hearts/
Well you can't blame him for taking a look, but if he goes there he is not as smart as I think he is.
Have the club done enough. Would be interesting to know how the offer made to him compares to some of our old guard.
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Now we know why Lennon was here.
I'd like to know where he got his tickets from though? ;D
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that report is confirmation of our thoughts, that we will not see Rekeem in the stripes again. Lessons need to be learnt !
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Guess what if they don't want to play for us sell them.
I don't care who it is.
If things have to get worse before getting better so be it.
We will still be here supporting the baggies when they're long gone.
Its not right that we train and teach them and almost as soon as they have one first team game then they're off I wouldn't mind if we got millions for them.
So ungrateful arnt they,they rarely go onto better things do they? Its all about the dish.
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Why have lessons not be learnt, over 5 years of losing talent.
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Guess what if they don't want to play for us sell them.
I don't care who it is.
If things have to get worse before getting better so be it.
We will still be here supporting the baggies when they're long gone.
Its not right that we train and teach them and almost as soon as they have one first team game then they're off I wouldn't mind if we got millions for them.
So ungrateful arnt they,they rarely go onto better things do they? Its all about the dish.
The board are a complete joke and cant seem to make their mind up.... look at other clubs that sack their head coaches/managers... within a couple of days they have appointed their new man... it seems like ours are just now going through a group of people no other team wants and going to take a gamble on whichever agrees to come here on the cheap.
Now if you were a young player, just broke into the first team... a team that is going to get a new head coach with no idea who it is, what the playing style will be like or even if you will get near the first team... would you jump at the chance of committing your future to the club by signing a new contract when there are other clubs with ambition sniffing around you?
Time and time again we let our young promising players go for one reason or another, it's a complete joke... the club seriously cant expect players to want to come to us or sign new contracts when they ain't even got a clue who's going to be in charge.
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The problem is that if clubs try to offer some type of reward to the family for signing a contract when the player is young, the club can get into trouble. The only real way around it is to offer a player a 5 year contract at 18 with wages that rise depending on appearances. Then if we want to loan them out we can or we can accept a bid from another team, instead of letting them run out of contract at 19.
But to be honest, i think it's the sign of the times that kids aren't loyal to the clubs that raised them. These kids are way too molly coddled.
With all the mental health discussions etc you'd think clubs would have a duty of care to ensure young players aren't allowed to be paid massive wages as it distorts their view of reality and decision making. Let's face it, if at 18 you're on 40k a week, you're never actually going to need to work for anything.
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I might be wrong, but if he goes to Celtic we get very little if any compo for him as it is classed as him moving abroad.
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I can’t say I would be massively concerned if Harper left, assuming he goes to an English club we would command half decent compo, I think the last month or so of the season showed he’s got a long way to go in his development and had he been on loan and not one of our own I doubt the fans would have had as much patience with some of his lazy performances.
The club have been discussing a contract with him for some time much like Tyler Roberts, at the end of the day if he doesn’t want to be here I’d rather him not stay, no one can force him to stay and the club shouldn’t be forced into paying wages that a player may not warrant just because they have shown some potential, say they throw money at him to keep him and he doesn’t develop how people expect, we are stuck with a player on good money for the duration of that contract.
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I can’t say I would be massively concerned if Harper left, assuming he goes to an English club we would command half decent compo, I think the last month or so of the season showed he’s got a long way to go in his development and had he been on loan and not one of our own I doubt the fans would have had as much patience with some of his lazy performances.
The club have been discussing a contract with him for some time much like Tyler Roberts, at the end of the day if he doesn’t want to be here I’d rather him not stay, no one can force him to stay and the club shouldn’t be forced into paying wages that a player may not warrant just because they have shown some potential, say they throw money at him to keep him and he doesn’t develop how people expect, we are stuck with a player on good money for the duration of that contract.
I completely agree. Harper has some ability for sure but I'm not sure he's going to be top class.
In any case anyone that isn't fully committed to the Albion can do one. I'm actually quite looking forward to some of the dead wood leaving the club. It feels like a new beginning is about to dawn and I say bring it on.
These "Premier League quality" players couldn't keep us in the Premier and could get us back into it either. Hegazi excepted our best players last season were loanees. That tells you something.
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CELTIC GIVE ENGLISH MIDFIELDER THE VIP TREATMENT FOR TROPHY DAY WIN OVER HEARTS
Being tempted by Champions League football
Source: https://videocelts.com/2019/05/blogs/latest-news/celtic-give-english-midfielder-the-vip-treatment-for-trophy-day-win-over-hearts/
I'll warm the car up.
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The way some of you "talk down" our young players, you would think we have an abundance of talent in our squad. Well we don't, and we suffer from a succession of urine poor managers to scared to give they youngsters a proper chance.
Maybe Rekeem has looked at the situation of Sam Field and thought " they are not doing that to me ". The treatment of Field is a disgrace.
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The way some of you "talk down" our young players, you would think we have an abundance of talent in our squad. Well we don't, and we suffer from a succession of urine poor managers to scared to give they youngsters a proper chance.
Maybe Rekeem has looked at the situation of Sam Field and thought " they are not doing that to me ". The treatment of Field is a disgrace.
Harper had massive involvement in the second part of the season, after some of his performances he shouldn’t have been keeping his place, simple fact is he’s not as good as some people make out, we may not have an abundance of talent but that doesn’t mean the club should be paying over the odds to keep players who don’t warrant it. He’s young and he’ll develop but we should be paying wages based on current ability not what he might possibly develop in to.
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Not a huge loss in all honesty. been offered a contract a long while ago and didn't want to sign it. We have come back with an improved offer and still not interested. From what i have saw of RH i haven't been majorly impressed and think Field is a better player.
if he believes he has a better future elsewhere then thats his decision.
there are not many young players who have come through our academy and gone on to do better things really is there? a lot have come through and thought they will be better elsewhere and hasn't worked.
the only one off the top of my head is Chris Wood who is playing in the premier league.
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Not a huge loss in all honesty. been offered a contract a long while ago and didn't want to sign it. We have come back with an improved offer and still not interested. From what i have saw of RH i haven't been majorly impressed and think Field is a better player.
if he believes he has a better future elsewhere then thats his decision.
there are not many young players who have come through our academy and gone on to do better things really is there? a lot have come through and thought they will be better elsewhere and hasn't worked.
the only one off the top of my head is Chris Wood who is playing in the premier league.
Chris Woods - Academy?? I made that mistake a while back,
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Be a shame to lose an up and coming youngster again but what can you do when the player doesnt want to sign
Bye Rekeem......
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Scottish football.... probably level with his ability imo
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Be a shame to lose an up and coming youngster again but what can you do when the player doesnt want to sign
Bye Rekeem......
My thoughts exactly, the club have offered him a contract (the details of which no one on here knows) and he may or may not sign. The club can't make him sign the contract and if he thinks playing for Celtic where you are expected to win with style every game and only get tested maybe 4 or 6 times a season in a poor league and go out of Europe by Christmas is "improving" then so be it. He might as well kiss any hope of further England caps goodbye too.
Can't see how anyone can blame the club really.
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Not a huge loss in all honesty. been offered a contract a long while ago and didn't want to sign it. We have come back with an improved offer and still not interested. From what i have saw of RH i haven't been majorly impressed and think Field is a better player.
if he believes he has a better future elsewhere then thats his decision.
there are not many young players who have come through our academy and gone on to do better things really is there? a lot have come through and thought they will be better elsewhere and hasn't worked.
the only one off the top of my head is Chris Wood who is playing in the premier league.
There's currently two in this division that would get into our side/squad.
Agree with your general assumption though.
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My thoughts exactly, the club have offered him a contract (the details of which no one on here knows) and he may or may not sign. The club can't make him sign the contract and if he thinks playing for Celtic where you are expected to win with style every game and only get tested maybe 4 or 6 times a season in a poor league and go out of Europe by Christmas is "improving" then so be it. He might as well kiss any hope of further England caps goodbye too.
Can't see how anyone can blame the club really.
TBH I'd do deals to get anyone away that doesn't want to be here, but that has to wait for the new manager to decide who he does and doesn't want in his formations.
Out of all of our players I would only be sorry of Hegazi and Gibbs went.
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Guess what if they don't want to play for us sell them.
I don't care who it is.
If things have to get worse before getting better so be it.
We will still be here supporting the baggies when they're long gone.
Its not right that we train and teach them and almost as soon as they have one first team game then they're off I wouldn't mind if we got millions for them.
So ungrateful arnt they,they rarely go onto better things do they? Its all about the dish.
Never mind the dish, it’d be nice to have a cup. :D
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235k in compo if he goes on a free to Celtic. It should be decided the same way for all not just english,scotish etc This system is screwed but we've known that for a few years now.
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/05/21/west-brom-could-lose-rekeem-harper-for-235k-compensation-as-celtic-join-race/
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Apparantely was at Celtic on Sunday and he is the reason Neil Lennon was here for the Villa game last week
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Why have lessons not be learnt, over 5 years of losing talent.
that report is confirmation of our thoughts, that we will not see Rekeem in the stripes again. Lessons need to be learnt !
They leave because they don't start regularly and lets be honest.... we are not successful and they go to bigger clubs. West Brom or Champions League with Celtic? He's a kid of course Celtic win that one.
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The Academy really is looking a waste of time if we cannot hold onto the best players and we don't even get a decent fee for them.
So, though not impressed with Harper's attitude towards the season's end, we lose the best ones before we have even had any realistic benefit of them and keep the mediocre (eg Leko) that make no difference to the first team ? What's the point ?
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Apparantely was at Celtic on Sunday and he is the reason Neil Lennon was here for the Villa game last week
Far be it for me to suggest 😀
But isn’t it strange that he wasn’t even in the squad in the first leg.....then starts the 2nd
And a long way for Lennon to come on the off chance?
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Sadly the Academy's looking like an expensive luxury. Maybe, it's better to follow Brentford and study the more comprehensive stats for players on the fringe of other teams (cf Romaine Sawyers)or other academies and acquire your pick relatively cheaply. I think Cowley might be good at that.
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Far be it for me to suggest 😀
But isn’t it strange that he wasn’t even in the squad in the first leg.....then starts the 2nd
And a long way for Lennon to come on the off chance?
He didn't.
He was on the bench but don't let that put a dent into your theory
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Sadly the Academy's looking like an expensive luxury. Maybe, it's better to follow Brentford and study the more comprehensive stats for players on the fringe of other teams (cf Romaine Sawyers)or other academies and acquire your pick relatively cheaply. I think Cowley might be good at that.
Does anyone know the yearly cost of running our football academy by any chance?
I assume it is most likely profitable if we've kept it for years? But I also remember Peace saying it wasn't good when Brown/Yandanda got poached. I think next season we'll definitely see 3-4 from the academy playing more though (Field, Edwards, Leko? O'Shea?) etc.
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Far be it for me to suggest 😀
But isn’t it strange that he wasn’t even in the squad in the first leg.....then starts the 2nd
And a long way for Lennon to come on the off chance?
to see a lack lustre performance from the lad as well ! Strange if you are trying to impress a prospective employer that you don't look interested in playing !
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Does anyone know the yearly cost of running our football academy by any chance?
I assume it is most likely profitable if we've kept it for years? But I also remember Peace saying it wasn't good when Brown/Yandanda got poached. I think next season we'll definitely see 3-4 from the academy playing more though (Field, Edwards, Leko? O'Shea?) etc.
Seem to recall Peace saying it was about £3 million a year, which means we'd have to sell 9 Rakeem Harpers every year to break even.
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Seem to recall Peace saying it was about £3 million a year, which means we'd have to sell 9 Rakeem Harpers every year to break even.
Wow...that is absolutely mind-boggling. Why on earth do we have an academy then? Our best players get poached and it's run at a loss...bizarre.
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Seem to recall Peace saying it was about £3 million a year, which means we'd have to sell 9 Rakeem Harpers every year to break even.
alternatively a Berahino goes a long way, Wood, Roofe and I’m sure a few other smaller fees have probably seen us okay financially from it lately. Harper going a nominal amount to Celtic is a bit of a kick but that’s not the Academy’s fault, more the poor foresight of whoever doles our contracts. I’m guessing his true market value would have been a decent few years of academy running costs.
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Far be it for me to suggest 😀
But isn’t it strange that he wasn’t even in the squad in the first leg.....then starts the 2nd
And a long way for Lennon to come on the off chance?
I don’t think so personally. He didn’t start the game anyway.
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They leave because they don't start regularly and lets be honest.... we are not successful and they go to bigger clubs. West Brom or Champions League with Celtic? He's a kid of course Celtic win that one.
The biggest motavation for running down a contract is for a bigger pay day not for bettering your football career.
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the way this club is being run would you blame any player who wants out? we have a board are incompetent, we've been managerless for two months and let's face it the future doesn't look rosey.
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I'm not sure anyone can blame any young player for wanting to move on. Yes he got his change in the side but only after injuries and suspensions to others. He gets criticised for everything he does yet is a kid learning his trade, if he was the finished article he would have been snatched a few years ago. Instead of slating him, we should be building a side around some of these kids, with Harper the talent is there, it just needs a coach to get the best out of him and someone to work on his fitness as he is knackered around the 60 minute mark each game.
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I'm not sure anyone can blame any young player for wanting to move on. Yes he got his change in the side but only after injuries and suspensions to others. He gets criticised for everything he does yet is a kid learning his trade, if he was the finished article he would have been snatched a few years ago. Instead of slating him, we should be building a side around some of these kids, with Harper the talent is there, it just needs a coach to get the best out of him and someone to work on his fitness as he is knackered around the 60 minute mark each game.
After he liked that tweet about the Villa goal as far as I'm concerned he can bugger off.
I want people at Albion committed to the cause. Look at someone like Mason Holgate. He was a loanee and he cried on the pitch after the penalty shootout compare that to a kid we've brought through our academy liking a goal against us.
He's a bad apple.
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After he liked that tweet about the Villa goal as far as I'm concerned he can bugger off.
I want people at Albion committed to the cause. Look at someone like Mason Holgate. He was a loanee and he cried on the pitch after the penalty shootout compare that to a kid we've brought through our academy liking a goal against us.
He's a bad apple.
He liked a tweet from a agent or something, naive and stupid thing to do
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He liked a tweet from a agent or something, naive and stupid thing to do
I don't think nearly enough was made of that. Sort of got lost amongst all the other stuff going on I suppose.
I couldn't believe he was named on the bench for the second leg after doing what he did. Ahead of Sam Field. Absolutely ridiculous.
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I'm not sure anyone can blame any young player for wanting to move on. Yes he got his change in the side but only after injuries and suspensions to others. He gets criticised for everything he does yet is a kid learning his trade, if he was the finished article he would have been snatched a few years ago. Instead of slating him, we should be building a side around some of these kids, with Harper the talent is there, it just needs a coach to get the best out of him and someone to work on his fitness as he is knackered around the 60 minute mark each game.
Agreed
Albion have provided no path for academy players to get a chance in the first team.
Take your blue and white specs off and ask yourself
Why would you want to stay?
I'd be out the door straight away.
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Given the choice I would take Field over Harper all day long. Just saying!
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He liked a tweet from a agent or something, naive and stupid thing to do
Wasn’t it a post of Hourihane celebrating captioned something like “quality always rises to the topâ€, definitely massively stupid to like that post on the day that goal contributed to us losing a play off semi final leg
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Wasn’t it a post of Hourihane celebrating captioned something like “quality always rises to the topâ€, definitely massively stupid to like that post on the day that goal contributed to us losing a play off semi final leg
unless you think you will be playing for them soon !
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Agreed
Albion have provided no path for academy players to get a chance in the first team.
Take your blue and white specs off and ask yourself
Why would you want to stay?
I'd be out the door straight away.
Very surprised at that comment. "Albion have provided no path for academy players"
Albion have provided a clear path IMO for academy players. the problem is, very few of them are good enough. Based upon our squad this season just finished, Harper is at best a squad player. Yes, he is only young and could improve and fulfill potential to make him a much better player. but i do not know what fans expect, young 18 year old kids to be thrown into the deep end and play 40 games?
Harper has made over 20 appearances this season so enough time to evaluate his ability and i along many others are not impressed. Izzy Brown was given a first team debut at 16 and in match day squads and wanted to move elsewhere.
Roofe & Roberts were not given many chances while they were at WBA but that was because we were a premier league club and established at the time with the priority being to stay in the league because of the financial rewards. It is a much more bigger gamble to introduce young academy players into the team whilst a premier league club unless they are very special players and up until now, neither of those two players are. But the position we find ourselves in now they would both get into our team and that is why with the level we are at now, i would expect more and more academy players to be given chances.
i think i said on another thread yesterday, there is only one player currently playing at a higher level than WBA who came through our academy and that is Chris Wood who i didn't know until yesterday he didn't come through from a young age group and was signed at 17 years old.
in summary, im all for giving academy players chances in the first team, but only if they are genuinely good enough. look at players who were being bigged up and pushing for chances such as Jerome Sinclair and Yan Dhanda. The latter played 4 times for a poor swansea side last year, and Sinclair spent the season on loan at Oxford.
i think the judgment of giving young kids chances at our club has been proven to be honest and we should let the professional people make the decisions.
i will never forget a game a few years back against Crystal Palace at home and the whole ground was screaming to bring Leko on as we were chasing a goal. we did bring him on, and he made a poor decision and lost the ball on the half way line to Townsend who skipped through and scored to finish the game. Young players have to be nurtured and slowly brought through to learn the game and how to deal with managing their decisions within a game and develop their ability at the same time.
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Very surprised at that comment. "Albion have provided no path for academy players"
Albion have provided a clear path IMO for academy players. the problem is, very few of them are good enough. Based upon our squad this season just finished, Harper is at best a squad player. Yes, he is only young and could improve and fulfill potential to make him a much better player. but i do not know what fans expect, young 18 year old kids to be thrown into the deep end and play 40 games?
Harper has made over 20 appearances this season so enough time to evaluate his ability and i along many others are not impressed. Izzy Brown was given a first team debut at 16 and in match day squads and wanted to move elsewhere.
Roofe & Roberts were not given many chances while they were at WBA but that was because we were a premier league club and established at the time with the priority being to stay in the league because of the financial rewards. It is a much more bigger gamble to introduce young academy players into the team whilst a premier league club unless they are very special players and up until now, neither of those two players are. But the position we find ourselves in now they would both get into our team and that is why with the level we are at now, i would expect more and more academy players to be given chances.
i think i said on another thread yesterday, there is only one player currently playing at a higher level than WBA who came through our academy and that is Chris Wood who i didn't know until yesterday he didn't come through from a young age group and was signed at 17 years old.
in summary, im all for giving academy players chances in the first team, but only if they are genuinely good enough. look at players who were being bigged up and pushing for chances such as Jerome Sinclair and Yan Dhanda. The latter played 4 times for a poor swansea side last year, and Sinclair spent the season on loan at Oxford.
i think the judgment of giving young kids chances at our club has been proven to be honest and we should let the professional people make the decisions.
i will never forget a game a few years back against Crystal Palace at home and the whole ground was screaming to bring Leko on as we were chasing a goal. we did bring him on, and he made a poor decision and lost the ball on the half way line to Townsend who skipped through and scored to finish the game. Young players have to be nurtured and slowly brought through to learn the game and how to deal with managing their decisions within a game and develop their ability at the same time.
Your Leko reference in a way typifies what happens with younger players at our club. Edwards played a loose pass at Bristol City which resulted in their 2nd goal and we haven't seen him since. I was quietly impressed with Edwards in his appearances and he showed more than Murphy for me.
There is going to be a settling in period for any youngster. Established players make mistakes and get forgiven but if a younger player does then he's judged to be not ready or too young.
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yes, i do agree with that but i think it may be because a big mistake can affect a young players confidence more than an experienced senior player maybe so they are taken out of the limelight for a while. i dont really agree with that but i think young players, it takes time to become regular first team players unless they are a very special talent. Harper is a prime example, i think he has potential but at the moment he needs to work on a lot of his game and improve numerous areas. if he signed a new contract i wouldnt sent him out on loan but think compared to this seasons squad, he is very much a squad player but another year of 20+ appearances will help his development.
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There is not a path way to our first team and that's why youngsters will bugger off when they have the opportunity.
There are two exceptions - Harper and Field. The former fell into the team because of injuries and the other we have absolutely wasted by playing around. The fact neither have been given loan spells away is very poor.
I agree that whilst a Premier League club, we may have been infront of the level of the likes of Roofe and Roberts but that will now come back to bite us.
Our whole Premier League existence was never tailored to being a club with a successful academy - especially when we appointed Pulis.
Izzy Brown was given a first time debut because the club wanted to sweeten him into staying.
Aside from this season, its a struggle to see where academy products have been given a chance..
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Given the choice I would take Field over Harper all day long. Just saying!
There is a massive difference in the way they both play when they are wearing our colours
1. doesn't seem to get out of 1st gear & looks bored to death
2. maybe try's to hard to please the manager/fans & is his own worse critic
So i agree with you 79
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Billy big balls behind the scenes apparently. Not quite on the scale of Berahino though.
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Billy big balls behind the scenes apparently. Not quite on the scale of Berahino though.
No matter how good a player is, or how much potential he has, if they are on this type of ego trip, then let them go and get as much money as we can with a high % sell on clauses, that's my view for what it is worth
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None of the youngsters should be in the 1st team squad unless they have signed a contract with us for at least 18 months ahead. We should not provide a platform for them to be snapped up by other clubs. We are not niave, so we must be stupid.
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None of the youngsters should be in the 1st team squad unless they have signed a contract with us for at least 18 months ahead. We should not provide a platform for them to be snapped up by other clubs. We are not niave, so we must be stupid.
Then you could end up with a bunch of youngsters on decent contracts, to find out they ain't as good as youd hope?
Luckily that would never be a thing, we've got OAPs on big contracts, we dont need over rated youngsters on them too.
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None of the youngsters should be in the 1st team squad unless they have signed a contract with us for at least 18 months ahead. We should not provide a platform for them to be snapped up by other clubs. We are not niave, so we must be stupid.
Isn't it the case that if they have played first team football they are then more valuable assets as they are no longer "academy" players ? I Seem to remember a couple of the "kids" being played so they cannot get poached so cheaply.
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Would of thought he would of signed by now if he was going to
Think it's safe to say he's gone
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Wouldn't surprise me to see him end up at Villa.
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Seems his attitude is all wrong. The fact that he hasn't made the England U20 squad when Field and Edwards have speaks volumes. He looked as though he had a bright future when he first broke into the first team, but his performances tailed off miserably after the first couple of games. If, as someone else said, he's playing the Billy Big Balls behind the scenes then he's best gone asap.
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Seems his attitude is all wrong. The fact that he hasn't made the England U20 squad when Field and Edwards have speaks volumes. He looked as though he had a bright future when he first broke into the first team, but his performances tailed off miserably after the first couple of games. If, as someone else said, he's playing the Billy Big Balls behind the scenes then he's best gone asap.
They appear to adhere strictly to age group with England. Harper is still in the u19s.
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Would of thought he would of signed by now if he was going to
Think it's safe to say he's gone
With no manager in place, no player in their right mind is going to sign with us right now.
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Morrison suggesting that Harper signs the contract we have offered him.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-brom-celtic-transfer-news-16349851
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Freeing up some of Celtic's budget so Morrison can sign for them instead.
He's got a head on his shoulders has James, always one step ahead ;D ;) .
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Freeing up some of Celtic's budget so Morrison can sign for them instead.
He's got a head on his shoulders has James, always one step ahead ;D ;) .
I can see Mozza joining Rangers.
I found his article quite bizarre that he mentioned Celtic, other than the odd press rumour there's nothing to confirm Celtic are even interested in Rekeem, unless I have missed something...
I would happily see Rekeem stay here but as others have said, if he leaves he leaves. I have said before I think Field is the better of the two. I think his timing of coming into the first 11 when the midfield looked static, adding that hes 'one of our own' really got the fans on his side, however I don't think he's as good as some think he is.
Harper is at an important stage of his career now, he still has A LOT to learn in his position, there were numerous times where you could see him switching off, not tracking runners etc this can obvisouly be coached into him - if he isn't to stay here then he really needs to be choosing a club where he will get good coaching and not just sitting in the under 23's for someone.
I don't blame the kid for not signing a contract yet, if I was in his position I would be weighing up my positions and also waiting for the club to make a managerial appointment and seeing what the new guys plans are.
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I can see Mozza joining Rangers.
I found his article quite bizarre that he mentioned Celtic, other than the odd press rumour there's nothing to confirm Celtic are even interested in Rekeem, unless I have missed something...
I would happily see Rekeem stay here but as others have said, if he leaves he leaves. I have said before I think Field is the better of the two. I think his timing of coming into the first 11 when the midfield looked static, adding that hes 'one of our own' really got the fans on his side, however I don't think he's as good as some think he is.
Harper is at an important stage of his career now, he still has A LOT to learn in his position, there were numerous times where you could see him switching off, not tracking runners etc this can obvisouly be coached into him - if he isn't to stay here then he really needs to be choosing a club where he will get good coaching and not just sitting in the under 23's for someone.
I don't blame the kid for not signing a contract yet, if I was in his position I would be weighing up my positions and also waiting for the club to make a managerial appointment and seeing what the new guys plans are.
wasn't Harper supposed to have been a VIP guest of Celtic at a recent game, hence why Lennon was at our play off game?
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I can see Mozza joining Rangers.
I found his article quite bizarre that he mentioned Celtic, other than the odd press rumour there's nothing to confirm Celtic are even interested in Rekeem, unless I have missed something...
I would happily see Rekeem stay here but as others have said, if he leaves he leaves. I have said before I think Field is the better of the two. I think his timing of coming into the first 11 when the midfield looked static, adding that hes 'one of our own' really got the fans on his side, however I don't think he's as good as some think he is.
Harper is at an important stage of his career now, he still has A LOT to learn in his position, there were numerous times where you could see him switching off, not tracking runners etc this can obvisouly be coached into him - if he isn't to stay here then he really needs to be choosing a club where he will get good coaching and not just sitting in the under 23's for someone.
I don't blame the kid for not signing a contract yet, if I was in his position I would be weighing up my positions and also waiting for the club to make a managerial appointment and seeing what the new guys plans are.
Saw a report few weeks ago Harper was in the crowd watching a recent game and the reason Lennon was here watching us against villa was to watch Harper. Could be nothing but who knows.
Morrison has been linked with Celtic a few times over the years, he still has a house in Middlesbrough so I guess that one still appeals to him.
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I think comparing Field and Harper is a touch unfair. Sam is 2 years older and has been around the first team for about 3 seasons now, although his minutes have been limited. Harper is by no means the finished article but with the right players around him and a good coach, he could be a real asset.
Of course he could leave and then all of this is moot
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The fact he still hasnt signed screams of wanting to move clubs. If he was committed, he knows the deal on the table, so he either says yes, or Im off. Worse case scenario is he waits for better deal to come along, which doesn't happen, and he begrudgingly signs our deal. I'd set him a date to sign by, or s*d off. He's clearly not that committed to the club.
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The fact he still hasnt signed screams of wanting to move clubs. If he was committed, he knows the deal on the table, so he either says yes, or Im off. Worse case scenario is he waits for better deal to come along, which doesn't happen, and he begrudgingly signs our deal. I'd set him a date to sign by, or s*d off. He's clearly not that committed to the club.
Don't think this is a factor, but maybe our new manager will be a major factor.
If my boss was about to change and might not rate me but I could earn more or similar elsewhere but know I was wanted, would you not wait??
Personally, I think he was gone a long time ago but I would wait to see the new bloke - will you play me? If non committal, I would go elsewhere who would commit to me.
Also think, outlet second offer was made for the benefit of the tribunal. He has only been at Albion the last three years because he signed a pre contract agreement and couldn't get out of it.
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Something wrong with the financial packages club is offering to our kids if yet another decides to run down contract and leave. Last season we couldn't even compete with a team in the Championship who were willing to pay Roberts wages while we were in Prem and in Saidos break out season he was reportedly on £500.00 a week playing in the richest league in the world. If Harper does leave, I won't blame him I will blame the clowns running the club.
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Something wrong with the financial packages club is offering to our kids if yet another decides to run down contract and leave. Last season we couldn't even compete with a team in the Championship who were willing to pay Roberts wages while we were in Prem and in Saidos break out season he was reportedly on £500.00 a week playing in the richest league in the world. If Harper does leave, I won't blame him I will blame the clowns running the club.
Don't forget if they run their contracts down they can ask for a substantial signing on fee at a new club.
We seem daft enough to pay wages for the likes of Krykoviac (reportedly £118k/week) and let decent prospects walk away before we offer them a few bob more
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I don't think it's just a financial issue personally. There's a common theme that our best youngsters over the past ten years have not decided to stay here to develop. As soon as they're able they've been off. Occasionally this might have been financial (Izzy Brown) but all cases can't have been.
How do we expect to compete if we sign the Livermores and Burkes of the World and don't try to develop the likes of Field or Harper who both have potential to be established championship players at least if developed properly.
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Being linked with Celtic now.
The trouble we had is quite simple, it's two problems.
1) While we were in the Prem it's more difficult to find youth players who can make that step up. It's not impossible it's just much more difficult to find one who can compete at that level. This means youth players will see their options more limited and more likely to seek a move away. It's why we would lose players to lower division clubs, it's simply that the bar to compete at lower levels is a lot lower.
2) When we do have a player who looks promising, we need to make sure we pay them enough to want to stay. Given the choice of sitting on the bench or not making the squad or playing regular first team football for about the same pay, if not more, what would you choose?
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He has only played just over 20 senior games and assessing him in those i would not be too upset if he left to be honest.
and from a financial point of view, it would be interesting to know but we cant be handing kids 4 year contracts on 20k a week when theyve only played 20 times. would be silly.
let him go and move on IMO.
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A decent agent would be looking to talk up his Albion deal. That means finding a reference point externally for what he could get paid, hence the talks with other clubs in including in Scotland. I am not sure a Scottish move would be a great idea or his or his agents preference, even to a very large club. Better off stopping with us, but only if we pay a decent wage. The challenge though is with no Manager on board, we have no clear strategy which could help us do this. So we might lose him and a number of others.
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Fan's on here may know better than me, and I'd welcome the feedback, but I can't recall, since our academy was introduced and I'm not saying there hasn't been, a young player who has allowed his contract to run down, left and then gone on too much bigger and better things than the Albion.
Can anyone enlighten me please?
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Fan's on here may know better than me, and I'd welcome the feedback, but I can't recall, since our academy was introduced and I'm not saying there hasn't been, a young player who has allowed his contract to run down, left and then gone on too much bigger and better things than the Albion.
Can anyone enlighten me please?
Tyler Roberts arguably. He ran it down, said he wouldn't sign, so we sold him. Leeds better and bigger??
Define bigger and better?
Izzy Brown is a multi millionaire - he is better off financially for his family at Chelsea than being with us? Football wise, he has wasted his career, but his family are sorted for life.
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Fan's on here may know better than me, and I'd welcome the feedback, but I can't recall, since our academy was introduced and I'm not saying there hasn't been, a young player who has allowed his contract to run down, left and then gone on too much bigger and better things than the Albion.
Can anyone enlighten me please?
There isnt one.
Roofe & Roberts are playing at the same level but at the time we were an established premier league club and could not offer them regular football.
some fans want us to throw money at young kids but you just cannot do that. and the most important thing is, they have to be good enough. and a lot that have been given chances have not been.
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Tyler Roberts arguably. He ran it down, said he wouldn't sign, so we sold him. Leeds better and bigger??
Define bigger and better?
Izzy Brown is a multi millionaire - he is better off financially for his family at Chelsea than being with us? Football wise, he has wasted his career, but his family are sorted for life.
Bigger and Better
1. Playing in a higher league
2. playing for a successful club
3. appearing in the first team of that successful club regularly
4. winning titles, cups, medals
5. playing international football at a senior level in World Cup's et al.
Of course money is important, but at what cost?
And I think other young players we have, will continue to have their heads turned with little in the way of any of the above.
But still searching to identify anyone that has become a headliner in such circumstances as I described, maybe that's me being over ambitious, a bit like some of our youngsters perhaps
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Tyler Roberts arguably. He ran it down, said he wouldn't sign, so we sold him. Leeds better and bigger??
Define bigger and better?
Izzy Brown is a multi millionaire - he is better off financially for his family at Chelsea than being with us? Football wise, he has wasted his career, but his family are sorted for life.
Has he though?
He's played over 70 games since leaving us (Championship level and above) and in between suffered an ACL injury that has taken best part of 12 months to recover from. Would he have got that many games here? I doubt it very much. He'll go out on loan again next season but still no lower than the level we are at.
As for Harper I can see why he's keeping his options open. The way the club is being run at the moment and lack of ambition I'd be surprised if anyone wanted to stay. If he goes to Celtic he's pretty much guaranteed Silverware and a brief taste of the Champions league. A step up from staying here IMO.
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Harper probably worth 1m or 2m in today's market. Izzy Brown probably 3m to 5m and Tyler Roberts 2m or 3m.
Imagine having these three players at our disposal or an extra 10m to spend this summer.............Instead we'll probably spend similar money on players of a similar quality so it will be a double whammy....mad really but that's how we've been run lately
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Harper probably worth 1m or 2m in today's market. Izzy Brown probably 3m to 5m and Tyler Roberts 2m or 3m.
Imagine having these three players at our disposal or an extra 10m to spend this summer.............Instead we'll probably spend similar money on players of a similar quality so it will be a double whammy....mad really but that's how we've been run lately
I think this is the thing that grates, we replace with players that are no better and in most cases are on more money. Is Robson-Kanu for example better than Roofe or Roberts? not a chance and he's on silly money for sitting on the bench coming on for the last 20 minutes with the odd start here and there, nothing to aim for as he's at a level higher than he deserves to be whereas these kids have careers ahead of them and if they progress well could bring good money to the club in the future, if they don't they get released in a couple of years, whichever that is depends on them and their performances.
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What we are saying then who at the club is analysing player performance and making tough assessments (rightly or wrongly) based on that?
I’d be asking why we waited till Jan 19 before playing Harper when he could’ve started the season?
It seems to me players in their 30s are attracted to stay at this football club because their wives want to be settled into a permanent home, kids have to find a school etc. They never seem to want to leave.
The kids on the other hand seem to want to leave at the drop of a hat for higher wages and think the grass is greener within a more ambitious set up.
No player should be signed unless they markedly improve the quality of the squad.
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What we are saying then who at the club is analysing player performance and making tough assessments (rightly or wrongly) based on that?
I’d be asking why we waited till Jan 19 before playing Harper when he could’ve started the season?
It seems to me players in their 30s are attracted to stay at this football club because their wives want to be settled into a permanent home, kids have to find a school etc. They never seem to want to leave.
The kids on the other hand seem to want to leave at the drop of a hat for higher wages and think the grass is greener within a more ambitious set up.
No player should be signed unless they markedly improve the quality of the squad.
Thats the problem with Little Aston and Henley in Arden the more celubrious parts of the west Mids where players live, really good for bringing kids up and family life but no good for the Yoof innit.
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I think a new manager could convince him to sign. All the uncertainty at the club must be unsettling for a player and I’m hoping if Bilic becomes manager he could convince him to stay
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Matt Wilson has given us an update on the Rakeem Harper situation:
"The Baggies have made Harper their second and final contract offer, but he is yet to sign.
However, Bilic is expected to meet the teenager before the month is out and speak to him about staying."
Shocked by this. I fully expected Bilic to arrive and refuse point blank to have anything to do with Harper.
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Matt Wilson has given us an update on the Rakeem Harper situation:
"The Baggies have made Harper their second and final contract offer, but he is yet to sign.
However, Bilic is expected to meet the teenager before the month is out and speak to him about staying."
Shocked by this. I fully expected Bilic to arrive and refuse point blank to have anything to do with Harper.
Why on earth would he do that?
As far as Slaven is concerned he's coming in to a new club presumably with no preconceived ideas on anyone's personality / issues. He will come in assess situations, speak to people then decide where to go from there.
The idea that he'll come in and blank people is crazy, what on earth would he gain by doing that? As much as anything it'd be in no way conducive to creating a togetherness and camaraderie within the club.
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I think it’s great he’s doing that. Harper isn’t perfect but he’s still very young and central midfield as it stands is our weakest position by far.
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Why on earth would he do that?
As far as Slaven is concerned he's coming in to a new club presumably with no preconceived ideas on anyone's personality / issues. He will come in assess situations, speak to people then decide where to go from there.
The idea that he'll come in and blank people is crazy, what on earth would he gain by doing that? As much as anything it'd be in no way conducive to creating a togetherness and camaraderie within the club.
I think maybe Timdon was being sarcastic. If he was not then heaven help us
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I give Harper a lot of credit for waiting to see how the manager situation develops before making a decision. In a career that only pays to your mid-thirties and can be cut short by injury, I would want my agent to look after my own interests. The fact all we know is contract negotiations are ongoing and he had not been flirting with other clubs gives him a lot of kudos.
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Lets's see if Harper likes what be hears from Billic and stays eg the Plan Billic has and maybe his role in the squad
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I think maybe Timdon was being sarcastic. If he was not then heaven help us
Ah,at last, somebody who understands me - I suppose marriage is out of the question? ;D ;D
I was indeed taking the pee. What a ridiculous thing for Matt Wilson to write in the name of news.
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A decent contract signed and he could work on being the player he looked like before Xmas. If only 5% of his head was elsewhere, including thinking about injuries with no contract, it would explain his from dropping off. I hope he signs and the fans give him another chance, Bilic could be the making of him. I would love to see him Field and Edwards doing the business next season.
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Ah,at last, somebody who understands me - I suppose marriage is out of the question? ;D ;D
I was indeed taking the pee. What a ridiculous thing for Matt Wilson to write in the name of news.
I hope you don't mind me interrupting, but you need to work harder on your sarcasm as it clearly/apparently wasn't dripping out of every single finger typed little pore. Must do better ;) .
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I think sarcasm is overrated
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I give Harper a lot of credit for waiting to see how the manager situation develops before making a decision. In a career that only pays to your mid-thirties and can be cut short by injury, I would want my agent to look after my own interests. The fact all we know is contract negotiations are ongoing and he had not been flirting with other clubs gives him a lot of kudos.
would you count being a guest of Celtic as "flirting" with another club (if it did indeed happen)?
It's only a guess that the manager situation is why he hasn't signed a deal, nobody knows his reasons apart from Harper himself and anyone else he's told (his agent maybe).
Ongoing contractual negotiations are the only factual thing.
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Liverpool, Spurs and Juventus all interested in Harper apparently.
From the Daily Star, so pinch of salt required ;)
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/787451/Liverpool-transfer-news-Tottenham-Juventus-West-Brom-Rekeem-Harper
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Liverpool, Spurs and Juventus all interested in Harper apparently.
From the Daily Star, so pinch of salt required ;)
https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/787451/Liverpool-transfer-news-Tottenham-Juventus-West-Brom-Rekeem-Harper
Stranger things have happened but I just cant see this being true. Definitely has potential but I don't think he is anywhere near the level required at the clubs mentioned. Still believe his best option is to stick with us and see how far he can progress over the next 2 years. Then maybe consider his options.
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Stranger things have happened but I just cant see this being true. Definitely has potential but I don't think he is anywhere near the level required at the clubs mentioned. Still believe his best option is to stick with us and see how far he can progress over the next 2 years. Then maybe consider his options.
Got to be agent talk surely
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Lets just hope that if he does go, he goes to an English club so we get paid.
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He needs to be told to either sign now or go. He isn't bigger then the club. He's clearly hanging on for something else. If he was committed to the club he would have shined a long time ago
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He needs to be told to either sign now or go. He isn't bigger then the club. He's clearly hanging on for something else. If he was committed to the club he would have shined a long time ago
He’s out of contract isn’t he? So he can do as he pleases really. I suppose we could withdraw the offer on the table, not sure what that achieves though.
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He needs to be told to either sign now or go. He isn't bigger then the club. He's clearly hanging on for something else. If he was committed to the club he would have shined a long time ago
might be waiting to see who we appointed as head coach and Slaven's vision for club going forward.
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If the clubs that are linked with him, are actually interested - there is no way he will be here next season
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It's not been announced that he has signed for another club, and given his age and being out of contract in a week I would have thought we'd have seen something somewhere of he had signed elsewhere.
He may well have been waiting to speak to Bilic before making a decision as I dare say he does have offers from elsewhere
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If the clubs that are linked with him, are actually interested - there is no way he will be here next season
not going to get into any of their 25 man squad never mind first team, just be loaned out or put into their reserves. Kid needs first team football which he should get with us.
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might be waiting to see who we appointed as head coach and Slaven's vision for club going forward.
Bilic will hold talks with Harper regarding his future, according to Matt Wilson’s tweet last week.
Of course wage would be the most decisive factor, but more playing time in next season might able to convince him to stay.
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not going to get into any of their 25 man squad never mind first team, just be loaned out or put into their reserves. Kid needs first team football which he should get with us.
Minor point but due to his age he doesn't need to be named as part of a 25 man squad
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With those teams interested no way he will stay, best hope may be that we loan him back for the season.
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not going to get into any of their 25 man squad never mind first team, just be loaned out or put into their reserves. Kid needs first team football which he should get with us.
But will probably be financially secure for life like Izzy Brown if one of those clubs come in. Will go out on loan at a level similar to us and stay there for the rest of his career or he works his backside off and who knows.
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You have to be honest and say why wouldn't he go and get several times his current wages, don't blame the lad at all just the system.
I'm told Chelsea had 50 players out on loan last season, just in case a gem was in there somewhere and thats just one club.
I do worry about his attitude though.
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You have to be honest and say why wouldn't he go and get several times his current wages, don't blame the lad at all just the system.
I'm told Chelsea had 50 players out on loan last season, just in case a gem was in there somewhere and thats just one club.
I do worry about his attitude though.
What attitude? I keep hearing this banded around about him aimlessly, the lads 19, played a few games and is correctly waiting to think, assess and make the next step in his career.
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What attitude? I keep hearing this banded around about him aimlessly, the lads 19, played a few games and is correctly waiting to think, assess and make the next step in his career.
It's not been banded about aimlessly, the kid went missing for the final 3 months of the season. In the eyes of the majority it was clear that his head had been turned and was just going through the motions. Yes, it's totally fine if he wants to think and assess his next career move but while he is still employed by the Albion it's not unreasonable to have expected him to put a shift in, show a bit more passion and willing and knuckle down to his job at hand.
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You have to be honest and say why wouldn't he go and get several times his current wages, don't blame the lad at all just the system.
I'm told Chelsea had 50 players out on loan last season, just in case a gem was in there somewhere and thats just one club.
I do worry about his attitude though.
50 kids who won't make it into chelskis 25 man squad, all there doing is taking advantage of a rule that prevents other clubs from developing their own talent.
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50 kids who won't make it into chelskis 25 man squad, all there doing is taking advantage of a rule that prevents other clubs from developing their own talent.
Don't need to be named in 25 man squad until not considered u-21 age group.
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Don't need to be named in 25 man squad until not considered u-21 age group.
these players will eventually turn 22 and vast majority will never play a competitive match for their first team.
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It's not been banded about aimlessly, the kid went missing for the final 3 months of the season. In the eyes of the majority it was clear that his head had been turned and was just going through the motions. Yes, it's totally fine if he wants to think and assess his next career move but while he is still employed by the Albion it's not unreasonable to have expected him to put a shift in, show a bit more passion and willing and knuckle down to his job at hand.
Could just be the weight of expectation has gotten to him
It happens to the beast
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Could just be the weight of expectation has gotten to him
It happens to the beast
I agree that the weight of expectation does impact certain players, of that there is no doubt. I'm not sure though in Harper's case there was all that amount of high expectation? As a 19 year old lad just having made the breakthrough to the first team, just having a usual 19 year old's sense of enthusiasm, high tempo and energy levels would have been enough to have endeared himself to the fans during his initial breakthrough season. Yes, expectation levels would rise in due course as he develops and progresses as a man and a footballer but initially you just want to see some positive body language and commitment and that is what appears to have been lacking.
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I agree that the weight of expectation does impact certain players, of that there is no doubt. I'm not sure though in Harper's case there was all that amount of high expectation? As a 19 year old lad just having made the breakthrough to the first team, just having a usual 19 year old's sense of enthusiasm, high tempo and energy levels would have been enough to have endeared himself to the fans during his initial breakthrough season. Yes, expectation levels would rise in due course as he develops and progresses as a man and a footballer but initially you just want to see some positive body language and commitment and that is what appears to have been lacking.
At times most of the buggers last season could have been accused of going missing , if I had been asked to play in the middle with brunt and Livermore I wouldn’t have come out yet
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The point I'm making is they can afford to pay stupid money to kids who have a resemblance of some kind of talent and loan them out until its obvious they haven't or if they have sit them on the bench to rot for 3 years and then sell them when they have only played 4 games in that time.
Can't be right that one club can have that many youngsters out on loan.
But again who could tell their lad to stay put and it may happen or go pear shaped.
And yes expectation may have weighed him down or he may just look like he doesn't give a s..t
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It's not been banded about aimlessly, the kid went missing for the final 3 months of the season. In the eyes of the majority it was clear that his head had been turned and was just going through the motions. Yes, it's totally fine if he wants to think and assess his next career move but while he is still employed by the Albion it's not unreasonable to have expected him to put a shift in, show a bit more passion and willing and knuckle down to his job at hand.
In the eyes of what majority? not really even a majority on this forum, just people who have turned against him because he has not yet signed a contract with the club.
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If we lose Harper and Barry for a pittance you have to ask what's the point in funding the academy. it's alright developing these players for the 1st team or even selling for big money to self fund the academy but it's not happening. we seem to be able to produce a high number of international youngsters that I hope benefit the club some day.
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In the eyes of what majority? not really even a majority on this forum, just people who have turned against him because he has not yet signed a contract with the club.
I don't think it's anything to do with his willingness to sign a contract or not, like I said in an earlier post, it's perfectly fine if he wants to think about his options and consider his career. What is not fine is his seemingly 'cant be bothered' body language and demeanour on the pitch over the final few months of the season. This I believe IS a majority view, certainly amongst Albion fans I know and speak to. It matters not a jot to me if he or anyone else signs a new contract or not, I just expect 100% effort, commitment, energy levels and positive body language from EVERY Albion player whilst they are employed by and representing the Albion.
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If we lose Harper and Barry for a pittance you have to ask what's the point in funding the academy. it's alright developing these players for the 1st team or even selling for big money to self fund the academy but it's not happening. we seem to be able to produce a high number of international youngsters that I hope benefit the club some day.
How many West Brom academy players have actually gone on to advance their careers beyond where they could have been had they stayed with us? I can't think of any. Izzy Brown has probably done well financially but hasn't done a lot - is there anyone else?
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Chris Wood has had a decent career tbf but agree there isn’t many.
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Chris Wood has had a decent career tbf but agree there isn’t many.
I was thinking Chris Woods too but since he left there are not many times he would have got into our first team.
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I don't think it's anything to do with his willingness to sign a contract or not, like I said in an earlier post, it's perfectly fine if he wants to think about his options and consider his career. What is not fine is his seemingly 'cant be bothered' body language and demeanour on the pitch over the final few months of the season. This I believe IS a majority view, certainly amongst Albion fans I know and speak to. It matters not a jot to me if he or anyone else signs a new contract or not, I just expect 100% effort, commitment, energy levels and positive body language from EVERY Albion player whilst they are employed by and representing the Albion.
I started this thread back in August ,because I was frustrated by the management of the day for not selecting him. Darren was I believe playing safe by selecting the old guard. He treated both Harper and Field appallingly , continuing to omit Harper and then when he did select him and he started to produce , in my humble opinion he overdid it and left him in too long. There is no doubt that Harper was poorly managed last season as were Field and Edwards. These are young inexperienced players still developing and playing in matches which were all very important in the battle for promotion, and they did not have any leaders helping them on the pitch except Barry when he played. Most of our players "were off it" one time or another during last season.
I was at Q.P.R where we won with a last minute goal from a subtle Rekeem backheel to the overlapping Holgate who crossed for Livermore to net the winner. That was a touch of real class of which we saw little after Barnes had left. Rekeem Harper did not throw the towel in he just lost form and confidence, but he will go on to be a very good player either here or elsewhere.
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I started this thread back in August ,because I was frustrated by the management of the day for not selecting him. Darren was I believe playing safe by selecting the old guard. He treated both Harper and Field appallingly , continuing to omit Harper and then when he did select him and he started to produce , in my humble opinion he overdid it and left him in too long. There is no doubt that Harper was poorly managed last season as were Field and Edwards. These are young inexperienced players still developing and playing in matches which were all very important in the battle for promotion, and they did not have any leaders helping them on the pitch except Barry when he played. Most of our players "were off it" one time or another during last season.
I was at Q.P.R where we won with a last minute goal from a subtle Rekeem backheel to the overlapping Holgate who crossed for Livermore to net the winner. That was a touch of real class of which we saw little after Barnes had left. Rekeem Harper did not throw the towel in he just lost form and confidence, but he will go on to be a very good player either here or elsewhere.
I agree with this. He frustrated me (and many others) towards the end of the season but I have very little doubt that he will make a good player. Exactly how good I am not sure, and this is where a real hunger and positive attitude comes into play.
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Chris Wood has had a decent career tbf but agree there isn’t many.
Chris Wood was a bit different though, he'd played a solid amount of games for us and just couldn't crack the first team who were in the Premier League at the time. It would be like if Field left this season after being loaned out - he'd clearly have a good amount of experience under his belt and game time.
The difference is players going too soon, i.e. James Hurst to Portsmouth. If you go to a club where you won't get nurtured correctly then it's incredibly hard to succeed. That's why I've always thought Berahino actually did quite well compared to Izzy Brown who was above him in the pecking order originally. Berahino may have messed his career up but he's easily earned a lot more than Brown as he stayed put and earned his reputation. It's better to be a big fish in a small pond at Harper's age, that is my point.
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To play devils advocate:
Before I get started, this is probably more an observation on the way we handle our youth player in general rather than Harper.
There are complaints from the fanbase over the perceived attitude of Harper, Leko and sometime Field. I don't recall seeing any over Edwards. At times have felt a certain degree of sympathy for these players in the way the club have handled them.
Instead of putting faith in them, the club bought in loan rangers or old-timers on short-term contracts. I'll say that Barnes, Gayle, Holgate and Johansen were worth it. But if you're a youngster on the fringes of the squad, I can imagine seeing Tyrone Mears or Wes Hoolahan or even Jacob Murphy and Tosin sat on the bench or getting minutes on the pitch instead of you must be disheartening. And then when things go wrong they're expected to spring on that pitch and give it their all? I know an argument will be about the money they are on, but all the money in the world won't shift a feeling of "f*cks sake, what is the bloody point" that I imagine is running through these kids heads at those points.
I think the club have, at stages, failed these young players and could have handled them an awul lot better and if I were in their position, I would certainly be looking at options presented to me.
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To play devils advocate:
Before I get started, this is probably more an observation on the way we handle our youth player in general rather than Harper.
There are complaints from the fanbase over the perceived attitude of Harper, Leko and sometime Field. I don't recall seeing any over Edwards. At times have felt a certain degree of sympathy for these players in the way the club have handled them.
Instead of putting faith in them, the club bought in loan rangers or old-timers on short-term contracts. I'll say that Barnes, Gayle, Holgate and Johansen were worth it. But if you're a youngster on the fringes of the squad, I can imagine seeing Tyrone Mears or Wes Hoolahan or even Jacob Murphy and Tosin sat on the bench or getting minutes on the pitch instead of you must be disheartening. And then when things go wrong they're expected to spring on that pitch and give it their all? I know an argument will be about the money they are on, but all the money in the world won't shift a feeling of "f*cks sake, what is the bloody point" that I imagine is running through these kids heads at those points.
I think the club have, at stages, failed these young players and could have handled them an awul lot better and if I were in their position, I would certainly be looking at options presented to me.
Totally agree - and its why if I was in their shoes I would consider leaving.
Sam Field is another who we have messed around - he should have been out playing first team football and instead we've had him in the stands on a match-day watching.
Harper was a breath of fresh air and only burst onto the scene because of injuries. Had we not been suffering injuries then he too would not have had a chance last year.
And if Jacob Muprhy was playing ahead of me then I'd give up football altogether. I have no idea why Kyle Edwards wasn't involved following his successful run out against Brentford.
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Totally agree - and its why if I was in their shoes I would consider leaving.
Sam Field is another who we have messed around - he should have been out playing first team football and instead we've had him in the stands on a match-day watching.
Harper was a breath of fresh air and only burst onto the scene because of injuries. Had we not been suffering injuries then he too would not have had a chance last year.
And if Jacob Muprhy was playing ahead of me then I'd give up football altogether. I have no idea why Kyle Edwards wasn't involved following his successful run out against Brentford.
I agree. Our handing of the kids last season was awful.
Sam Field at Reading was excellent, left out thereafter.
Oli Burke scored his first goal for the club in the league cup tie, never got a look in again.
Kyle Edwards played well and scored a fantastic goal at Brentford, rarely seen after.
This sort of thing is bad for kids progression mentally. When they do well you give them a run of games 5/6/7 then yes by all means bring them out again and re-introduce them when the time is right and you explain to them why they're being looked after. To just kick them aside after good performances is a right kick in the teeth, their hearts must sink when they're not included and it's hard to keep picking yourself up if you feel no matter what you do you're not going to be picked.
Slaven has a history of playing and trusting kids to an extent so hopefully this coming season we will see a change of attitude towards our youngsters.
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Edwards was superb as a sub in a game against Reading last year, then wasn't seen again until the Brentford game. But I think there have been less complaints for him because he has been out on loan and got some football under his belt, albeit in League 2.
Leko has had one unsuccessful loan; Harper the same. Field hasn't been sent out on loan at all. So I think part of the frustration is that they haven't been sent out to learn more and gain more experience, but what's the point in keeping them here if we aren't going to use them?
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I posted during the season imagining Jones and Moore sitting in the office on a Thursday or whenever and going "oooh, its Boro/Forest/Wigan, they can be tough, maybe this isn't the week for the youngsters" time after time after time, understandable maybe in one way but basically chicken.
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Brim mail reporting he is staying (possibly)
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I wonder, if he does stay will that officially make him a decent prospect again or will he still be an overrated up himself no hoper? ...... hmmm.
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I wonder, if he does stay will that officially make him a decent prospect again or will he still be an overrated up himself no hoper? ...... hmmm.
The next Bryan Robson before the ink is dry ;D
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I wonder, if he does stay will that officially make him a decent prospect again or will he still be an overrated up himself no hoper? ...... hmmm.
signing a nice new big contract or leaving the club will not change my opinion on him.
and in the 20 games or so i have seen him he looks an average player. whether that improves over the years with us or another club remains to be seen but he has plenty of years to improve but i am not convinced.
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He should stay. I cant see a better place for him.
He played 16/17 league games last season apparently. You have to fancy him to play in more this year and he will not do that with any other club hes linked with. The experts talk about the importance of first team football and he cannot afford to lose a year or two of his career.
He will also be set for life (bar having a financial melt down or taking poor advice) with this contract regardless of if its here or elsewhere.
I also don't see a Liverpool, Spurs or even Juve putting him on silly money of £40k plus. His agent should be negotiating the best terms he can get with us, and a sensible buy out should he excel over the next few years.
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Monday will be the watershed moment. Won't be under contract with us any more.
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signing a nice new big contract or leaving the club will not change my opinion on him.
and in the 20 games or so i have seen him he looks an average player. whether that improves over the years with us or another club remains to be seen but he has plenty of years to improve but i am not convinced.
I agree entirely. The signing of a contract or not was NEVER the issue in the eyes of those of us who either don't rate him overly highly or don't think he has the best of attitudes. He might be a decent prospect but I just cant see it happening for him either at the Albion or elsewhere.
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If this 'article' on birmingham live is right - https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/rekeem-harper-tottenham-spurs-transfer-16501301 (https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/rekeem-harper-tottenham-spurs-transfer-16501301) - then something is really wrong.
If our player walks away and signs for Spurs for an insulting compensation fee (can that happen with another English club?) then why would we loan him back and continue to develop him for Spud's benefit?
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I'm not one to drop in things like 'I know someone who knows someone' etc.... because those comments can be taken with a pinch of salt.
But in this instance I do have it on good authority that unless something dramatic happens over the weekend, he will sign an extension on Monday.
After speaking with Bilic and the Club Heirachy, Harper will sign it to protect the club from losing money to a tribunal fee (verses a potential higher fee), getting a higher wage and has been promised more game time. Given WBA's time and training given to him it's fair all round and done out of respect. This doesn't rule out a future move, but protects all parties.
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If this 'article' on birmingham live is right - https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/rekeem-harper-tottenham-spurs-transfer-16501301 (https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/rekeem-harper-tottenham-spurs-transfer-16501301) - then something is really wrong.
If our player walks away and signs for Spurs for an insulting compensation fee (can that happen with another English club?) then why would we loan him back and continue to develop him for Spud's benefit?
This would be a scandalous arrangement. I hope it is not true. If he won't sign for the club that has developed him so far then we should forget all about him. I wouldn't want him loaned back under any circumstances
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He's not good enough for us to waste a loan on for next season.
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This would be a scandalous arrangement. I hope it is not true. If he won't sign for the club that has developed him so far then we should forget all about him. I wouldn't want him loaned back under any circumstances
Can't exactly imagine him being a fan favourite if this was to happen either
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This would be a scandalous arrangement. I hope it is not true. If he won't sign for the club that has developed him so far then we should forget all about him. I wouldn't want him loaned back under any circumstances
Its actually a fairly common practice, in fact off the top of my head we loaned Dawson immediately back to Rochdale when we bought him.
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Its actually a fairly common practice, in fact off the top of my head we loaned Dawson immediately back to Rochdale when we bought him.
I think the point would be if they signed him on a free/minimal compo and then expecting us to maintain his development. If he was going to come and be a vital/key player then we have a reason to want him back but otherwise it is a waste of loan recruitment and game time for other young players in the squad
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I know I’ll get pelters but in terms of natural ability I think he’s better than Field. While he may have an attitude problem (rumours) there is a reason the likes of spurs and Liverpool are looking at him.
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I know I’ll get pelters but in terms of natural ability I think he’s better than Field. While he may have an attitude problem (rumours) there is a reason the likes of spurs and Liverpool are looking at him.
Not sure why you would? He's a far better player than Field.
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I know I’ll get pelters but in terms of natural ability I think he’s better than Field. While he may have an attitude problem (rumours) there is a reason the likes of spurs and Liverpool are looking at him.
Two totally different players, Field can sit in front of the back four doing the dirty work and Harper can get forward. I don't buy the attitude problems stuff to be honest. I think he lacks basic coaching at times and his fitness needs work in particular stamina as he seems to struggle late on in games and people choose the easy option of labeling him lazy, maybe he is but in his first season i'm happy to give the benefit of the doubt and lets see what the future brings
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The defensive side of his game needs an absolute tonne of work and he needs to make himself available for the ball a lot more but the raw talent is there with him. His ball retention is very good and he's very calm on the ball and his dribbling ability to power away from opponents is already very impressive at 19. How much defensive nous he can add will dictate how far his career goes, but the ceiling is high for him if he can improve that.
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Noticed in an article from Matt Wilson on Filip Krovinovic that Harper might be having a U turn on signing the new contract following his meeting with Bilic and training with the Group last week.
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Excuse me for being lazy, but a U turn in which direction? Both the suggestions of him staying and leaving have been claimed at times
He should sign today, does not stop chance of being sold later but gives us an ability to name a price.
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Two totally different players, Field can sit in front of the back four doing the dirty work and Harper can get forward. I don't buy the attitude problems stuff to be honest. I think he lacks basic coaching at times and his fitness needs work in particular stamina as he seems to struggle late on in games and people choose the easy option of labeling him lazy, maybe he is but in his first season i'm happy to give the benefit of the doubt and lets see what the future brings
I agree he does look tired later in the games and that should improve with him training with and playing in the first team instead of the u23s.
I just hope he signs as it makes having a youth set up pointless if we keep on losing the best prospects.
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"Rekeem Harper is now a free agent, but he was at the #wba training ground today. Looking increasingly like he may stay and sign his 4yr deal after meeting Bilic last week. But until it's signed..." Just posted by Matt Wilson.
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We really need to sign him up. It would be disastrous if he walked away for peanuts. I think he would thrive under Bilic and could have a very expensive footballer on our hands if he continues his development at the same rate.
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I hope he signs and starts the season in midfield alongside a few new faces. The sooner Brunt and Livermore are moved on the better.
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Didn't somebody say earlier on in the thread that he was signing today?
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Didn't somebody say earlier on in the thread that he was signing today?
Signing on at West Brom job seekers office
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He will sign for who ever puts the £ in his pocket, even at this early stage of his career he will not be short of money so he will await the £ signs and the dotted line to sign on
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Signed new deal with us , 3 years .
Best choice in my view.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/july/harper-signs-new-albion-contract/
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Good news this he must have liked what Slav has said to him, hopefully he kicks on now and nails down a regular first team position.
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Great news about Rekeem, early days but promising start for Slav.
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I'm not particularly happy about this in one way. Firstly I'm not sure exactly how good Harper is and I'm not certain how he fits into a Bilic team. Also following his twitter antics during the first leg of the play offs against Villa I don't want that sort of character at the club.
Here's the but:
BUT on the other hand it is a definite positive in the message it sends out to the academy prospects, particularly following the Louie Barry departure AND given that he's signed when he clearly had other options tells me his attitude is different at this present moment in time to what it was at the end of last season.
Given his age, I'm prepared to look over his past misdemeanour but for me Harper has to grow up, knuckle down and prove himself. At least if we have to move him on down the line we will get decent money for him so from that point of view it's excellent business for the club.
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Please he has signed and hope he fulfils his potential.
On the other hand maturity and "growing up" is difficult to define or achieve at a young age, if he behaves like he appeared to last year at 25 then we have problems. What he needs now is good impartial support and advice
I'm available for a nominal fee 8)
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Great news, remember he is only 19.
If I were him (not being an Albion fan) I'd have signed for Celtic, done 2 years there then moved to the Premier League for big money at the old age of 21.
I think this points towards him making it clear he will be played this season which is fair enough from his perspective. Even if he did flop at this point we could probably get money for him.
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Finally some good news. Although 3 years is a tad short.
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Generally pleased about this because it would be hugely disappointing to lose another academy graduate for little or no fee.
He got enough game time last season to allow me to form an opinion. His key strength is that he is good on the ball able to beat a man and of the players that completed 1000 minutes last season he has the highest pass completion rate (which indicates he is technically proficient.)
However the question remains about where he plays and the answer to that is wrapped up in some of his development issues. Generally whether on or off the ball he needs to become a lot more aware of what is going on around him. He has a good passing range but he misses passing opportunities and off the ball he too frequently does not respond to the opposition movement, while he has decent turn of pace and can recover once he gets wrong side of the ball he will always have a problem. If he wants to play centrally or in a double pivot his defensive side of his game needs to improve dramatically.
There is an argument that pigeon holes in an advanced role behind a lone striker or a front 3 where his limitations defensively are less of an issue but then the pressure falls on him to score more and make a more clinical contribution around the box.
Overall all these issues can be addressed with coaching and critically game time.
The signing of Krovinovic is probably not great news for him because it is difficult to see how both them play unless we have an absolute beast of a player as the 3rd central midfielder (not anyone on the books at the moment).
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Good for the lad and good for the club
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Great news. He should be a regular starter alongside the new Croat. If they are paying Brunt anything over £10,000 per week then it is madness.
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Good news.
If we do play a 4231, supposedly Bilic's favourite formation, wouldn't that allow Harper to fit in:
Defence x 4
Livermore Field
Harper. Edwards??
Krovanic
JRod???
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Good news. Needs to knuckle down and crack on now and put this nonsense behind him/us.
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Interestingly, being reported that the four contract on offer has now been revised to three.
Would that mean he could not leave on a free at the end of the three years as under 22? (I think)
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Another positive in my opinion.
Crack on Harper
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Good news.
If we do play a 4231, supposedly Bilic's favourite formation, wouldn't that allow Harper to fit in:
Defence x 4
Livermore Field
Harper. Edwards??
Krovanic
JRod???
A midfield pairing of Livermore and Field would see us struggle IMO. This is the area we need to improve on most. Neither have the ability to dictate a game. I still think we'll see Barry re sign out of desperation due to our usual faffing around.
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A midfield pairing of Livermore and Field would see us struggle IMO. This is the area we need to improve on most. Neither have the ability to dictate a game. I still think we'll see Barry re sign out of desperation due to our usual faffing around.
Personally I would hope Livermore goes and we replace him not Field, but I cannot see it.
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After Barry refused deal absolutely delighted that Harper has signed a new contract especially with other clubs sniffing around. :P
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Personally I would hope Livermore goes and we replace him not Field, but I cannot see it.
Livermore is on a reported £46K per week. If that figure is within £10K correct and I'm pretty certain it is, I would be actively trying to entice offers for him.
Getting a distinctly average 29 year old on money like that out of the door is absolutely what we should be doing. I'd accept pretty much any offer for him just to get that wage off the books.
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46k is his flex down wage!??!
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46k is his flex down wage!??!
No, to be fair, it wouldn't be but the thing with the flex down wage is I'd expect it rises again in the event of promotion which would then (if we went up next season) leave us with a 30 year old on wages he has never justified. Livermore hasn't long signed a new contract I'd be amazed if there isn't a condition in that contract that bumps his wages up again if we're in the Premier League.
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:o that his wages are still that high but wouldn't surprise me I'm still gobsmacked that HRK was given a contract worth 50,000.00 plus club is definitely run by a bunch of morons
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Oh right, yeah i'd like him to be gone flex down or not along with Brunt. Even in the champo we have to be paying these 2 around 50k a week combined. Insanity.
I believe HRK is on 20k in the champo and then 40k if we go up! CLueless.
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Fantastic news about Harper. Hopefully he gets his head down now and concentrates completely on improving. He could be our most valuable academy player yet.
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Oh right, yeah i'd like him to be gone flex down or not along with Brunt. Even in the champo we have to be paying these 2 around 50k a week combined. Insanity.
I believe HRK is on 20k in the champo and then 40k if we go up! CLueless.
HRK contract extension, yeah idiots offered him new deal but to be fair Pulis was hit with three million court costs I digress 54 000.00 a week.
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Good news for us.
Hopefully Harper will have more chances next season, let our academy products know that there is a pathway to break into the 1st team.
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Hopefully he can now work on refining his game and excelling in a couple of areas and can really concentrate on his Albion career. He shown lots of good signs last season i'm pleased he's signed!
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Good news. Lets hope SB can get the best out of him.
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Good news.
If we do play a 4231, supposedly Bilic's favourite formation, wouldn't that allow Harper to fit in:
Defence x 4
Livermore Field
Harper. Edwards??
Krovanic
JRod???
what about Phillips and Burke?
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Livermore is on a reported £46K per week. If that figure is within £10K correct and I'm pretty certain it is, I would be actively trying to entice offers for him.
Getting a distinctly average 29 year old on money like that out of the door is absolutely what we should be doing. I'd accept pretty much any offer for him just to get that wage off the books.
Didn't we turn down an offer from Palace for him a while back? If so criminal really. We really shouldn't be turning down good offers for any of our players IMO especially when we've ended up eventually letting many go for a fraction of the cost.
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Good news.
If we do play a 4231, supposedly Bilic's favourite formation, wouldn't that allow Harper to fit in:
Defence x 4
Livermore Field
Harper. Edwards??
Krovanic
JRod???
I imagine he would be in place of Field or Livermore with Phillips around.
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what about Phillips and Burke?
True. For got Phillips - probably be injured though.
Defence x 4
Livermore. Field
Harper Krovanic phillips
JR
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Nice one Rekeem.
Here's hoping he goes onto fulfill his potential, and preferably with us 8) .
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Very pleased about this. Adds that special ingredient of creativity to our midfield. Also gives a boost for our Academy. We do need to produce some players ourselves instead of just relying on the transfer market. Hope that Bilic gets the best out of him. He may be a similar type player to Filip in which case some competition for places makes us stronger.
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Good news. There's still this question of what type of player Harper is and what's he going to be ? He could potentially play in the same position as Filip but from the footage they are very different players.
Bearing in mind our need for legs and energy in midfield could we see
Harper Field
Krovinovic
with Harper generally more advanced than Field but with Field also able to get forward when the opportunity is there. Average age there about 21. Just a thought.
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Good news. There's still this question of what type of player Harper is and what's he going to be ? He could potentially play in the same position as Filip but from the footage they are very different players.
Bearing in mind our need for legs and energy in midfield could we see
Harper Field
Krovinovic
with Harper generally more advanced than Field but with Field also able to get forward when the opportunity is there. Average age there about 21. Just a thought.
You'll never win anything with kids ;)
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Harper probably isn't defence-minded enough to play in a 2. Krovinovic probably doesn't score enough to play as a number 10. If we could somehow bring in a Makelele-type destroyer we could go 433:
New DM
Harper Krovinovic
I never want to see the Livermore - Brunt partnership return, but then we're left needing 2 centre mids because neither Brunt, Livermore, Field or Harper are good enough/suited to playing in a 2. In which case we'd be overstocked with 6 central midfielders and the 2 young ones will never get gametime.
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Harper probably isn't defence-minded enough to play in a 2. Krovinovic probably doesn't score enough to play as a number 10. If we could somehow bring in a Makelele-type destroyer we could go 433:
New DM
Harper Krovinovic
I never want to see the Livermore - Brunt partnership return, but then we're left needing 2 centre mids because neither Brunt, Livermore, Field or Harper are good enough/suited to playing in a 2. In which case we'd be overstocked with 6 central midfielders and the 2 young ones will never get gametime.
I'm thinking of Krovinovic as an AM not a No 10 - there is a difference. We never quite seem to trust our youngsters do we ?
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Good news. There's still this question of what type of player Harper is and what's he going to be ? He could potentially play in the same position as Filip but from the footage they are very different players.
Bearing in mind our need for legs and energy in midfield could we see
Harper Field
Krovinovic
with Harper generally more advanced than Field but with Field also able to get forward when the opportunity is there. Average age there about 21. Just a thought.
That is a much better midfield three than we've been used to (cue Jacko, Field is pooh and Brunt must play histrionics ;)).
Those three are youthful, should be capable of, and indeed suited by, playing a higher tempo than we're used to (which Bilic has hinted as ideal) and they compliment each other well. You have the defensive mind and left foot of Field, the athleticism and right foot of Harper and the mobility, attacking mind and two feet of Krovinovic.
That midfield three is capable in the Championship. There are a couple of issues though: a) It's a very inexperienced trio, b) we need obvious cover and c) because of it's youth it may be inconsistent.
For any one off game though if we lined up with that midfield three I'd be pretty happy.
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Whilst Slav may get the plaudits, he can only agree what the board are willing to sanction....I think the board deserve credit on this one
This kid can play, he has a great future ahead and will only get better , there would have been plenty others willing to take him so we have done well to retain
Hopefully all those that have never met him but talk about his poor attitude, get behind the player .
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Fantastic news, we won't make a better signing this Summer. Rekeem will not be understudy to anyone he will be a star performer.
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Excellent news. I think he was on the verge of signing when big Dave got sacked, but wanted to wait until he knew who the next manager was going to be, which is fair enough. Always thought he would sign eventually. Very good prospect who needs time to develop and gain confidence and consistency, the two things hardest to achieve when you are still a teenager. We need to be patient with him and hope he can make the step up. Under Bilic, I am quietly confident.
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That is a much better midfield three than we've been used to (cue Jacko, Field is rubbish and Brunt must play histrionics ;) ).
Those three are youthful, should be capable of, and indeed suited by, playing a higher tempo than we're used to (which Bilic has hinted as ideal) and they compliment each other well. You have the defensive mind and left foot of Field, the athleticism and right foot of Harper and the mobility, attacking mind and two feet of Krovinovic.
That midfield three is capable in the Championship. There are a couple of issues though: a) It's a very inexperienced trio, b) we need obvious cover and c) because of it's youth it may be inconsistent.
For any one off game though if we lined up with that midfield three I'd be pretty happy.
Brunt is better than Field. End of story really...
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With him signing does this put to bed the Chelsea lad joining?
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With him signing does this put to bed the Chelsea lad joining?
Maybe he'll replace Livermore *prays*
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Brunt is better than Field. End of story really...
It's not end of story (at least not for me :D).
It's a sliding scale in that Brunt is getting further past his peak age and Field is getting closer to reaching peak age, though not close to it yet.
So if you class the main attributes necessary for CM/DM as (in no particular order) passing, tackling, movement. (Experience shouldn't come into it as that is an immeasurable and not am actual part of the game).
Tackling - I think even you would find it tricky to make a case for Brunt being the better tackler...especially after the Villa game (liability) ??
Passing, Brunt has the occasional 'worldy' assist but we haven't seen Field have chance to settle in and feel like he belongs. (Megson reckoned Field had the best passing range at the club).
Movement, well I confidently predict Field will have the better game in game out engine this season. Brunt's best efforts in the past 18 months or so have been from the bench when he knows he only has 20 or 25 minutes to get through.
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Brunt is better than Field. End of story really...
Not really, they are different types of players.
Unlike some I do still think Brunty has a role to play next season but I'd like to see him used primarily off the bench. If we need a goal with 20-25 minutes to go that's when I'd like to see Brunty introduced when teams are tiring a little bit and he can get time on the ball to deliver quality with that left foot of his. He is versatile in that you can play him wide right, wide left or more centrally against a team parking the bus, his lack of mobility isn't as much of an issue in such circumstances.
In terms of starting games, Bilic has already intimated that he wants to play a higher tempo, more energetic style (as indeed has Dowling) and that won't ideally suit Brunt.
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Brunt is comfortably the better player at the respective stages of their career. Of that, I have no doubt.
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Not really, they are different types of players.
Unlike some I do still think Brunty has a role to play next season but I'd like to see him used primarily off the bench. If we need a goal with 20-25 minutes to go that's when I'd like to see Brunty introduced when teams are tiring a little bit and he can get time on the ball to deliver quality with that left foot of his. He is versatile in that you can play him wide right, wide left or more centrally against a team parking the bus, his lack of mobility isn't as much of an issue in such circumstances.
In terms of starting games, Bilic has already intimated that he wants to play a higher tempo, more energetic style (as indeed has Dowling) and that won't ideally suit Brunt.
Brunt can not play in Central midfield cost us numerous times last season especially home against vile
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One is a natural central midfielder who can tackle and the other is a natural wide player shoehorned into the middle where he looks uncomfortable and has nowhere near the impact he can have from out wide, two totally different players.
Now as the topic is about Rekeem Harper lets talk about him ;)
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With him signing does this put to bed the Chelsea lad joining?
I hope not, the Chelsea lad sounds like he’d be a great addition to our first team. He played 40 odd games for Ipswich last year and their fans rated him very highly.
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Brunt can not play in Central midfield cost us numerous times last season especially home against vile
Yet when bought back into the team, he had 3 MOTM performances. That proves he can be consistently effective in midfield. Brunts record speaks for itself.
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Yet when bought back into the team, he had 3 MOTM performances. That proves he can be consistently effective in midfield. Brunts record speaks for itself.
Completely depends on the opposition. Put him in the midfield against anyone with pace and who will run at him and it's like playing with a man down. Actually, it's worse as he'll give fouls away that simply not having a player there wouldn't do. ;D
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Only just seen this and it is great news. Hopefully, he can knuckle down, ensure he's on the team sheet every week and really realise his potential. Exciting talent.
Would also be nice if it sets down a marker, for even younger players who may have their heads turned by bigger clubs. Money's great but you can't beat playing games.
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Can we stick to Rekeem Harper please, one polite request was posted and ignored, anymore posts removed.
There is a topic already open entitled CENTRE MIDFIELD which would be better suited.
http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=22153.0
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Glad to see Harper stay - there is lots of ability and potential there, we just need to ensure we improve other areas of his game.
His emergence from January has been very good - he lost his way a bit towards the end but hopefully Billic can bring him back on track.
We need someone who can carry the ball from midfield, with pace and power and Harper provides that. He's a different option and should not be sniffed at.
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Glad to see Harper stay - there is lots of ability and potential there, we just need to ensure we improve other areas of his game.
His emergence from January has been very good - he lost his way a bit towards the end but hopefully Billic can bring him back on track.
We need someone who can carry the ball from midfield, with pace and power and Harper provides that. He's a different option and should not be sniffed at.
Agree totally, he looked good in parts 2nd half of last season. Hopefully Slav will get Sam Field and Edwards up to speed too.
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Agree totally, he looked good in parts 2nd half of last season. Hopefully Slav will get Sam Field and Edwards up to speed too.
Highest pass completion rate in our midfield last season, unlike Livermore and Brunt constantly giving the ball away. Not only was he tasked with breaking between the lines and revolving possession he was also struggling to cover for his dad's army midfield teammates who had the mobility of OAPs. I'm looking forward to seeing him play in central midfield alongside a new capable midfielder who can actually play and hold his own. It's a shame Barry has gone and that Brunt and Livermore are still on the wages, Barry was ten times the player of both of them combined.
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Good news that he has signed the deal but he must get his head down now, work hard and earn his right to be in the team.
will be very interesting to see how he is this season.
i could be completely wrong but i just get the feeling he came back to sign that contract because he hadn't got a better offer elsewhere.
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Good news that he has signed the deal but he must get his head down now, work hard and earn his right to be in the team.
will be very interesting to see how he is this season.
i could be completely wrong but i just get the feeling he came back to sign that contract because he hadn't got a better offer elsewhere.
Most of the players who join the club come here because it's the best they can do . They don't come here because they like the Black Country or us as supporters. He is a good player who will thrive under Bilic
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Not even in the starting 11 or squad today. Had a really poor game on Tuesday so hopefully this will give him a kick up the backside.
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It is a bit optimistic to expect a lad of his experience to perform week week out, I would call a resting him rather than a kick up the backside
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It's early days in along season, so he will definitely get his chances. It's up to him to impress and up his game. Luckily, we have a decent squad, so there's competition for places.
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Anyone know what's going on with him?
I was pleased when he signed a new deal and he looks a player - but hasn't featured for us this season. Is he injured or am I missing something?
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Anyone know what's going on with him?
I was pleased when he signed a new deal and he looks a player - but hasn't featured for us this season. Is he injured or am I missing something?
He's been playing in the U23's lately and from what I've heard has been fairly disappointing.
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Where is Harper? Has the ability too walk into our first team.
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Where is Harper? Has the ability too walk into our first team.
Clearly Bilic don’t think so, on the recent evidence I’d side with bilic. Harper isn’t at the quality of the first eleven.
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Where is Harper? Has the ability too walk into our first team.
are you related to him?
amazed by that comment. i wouldnt swap him for any of our starting midfielders or our sub midfielders at the moment.
when ever i have seen him, he does not work enough, and never gets involved or dictates the game as much as he should.
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I think his performances started to taper off towards the end of last season, he started to look like he couldn't be arsed, especially against Derby.
That and the sudden interest by Celtic I think probably put other things into his head.
Still a bit concerting that he isn't even making the squad when he showed so much potential last season.
Didn't we tie him up into a new deal at the start of the season as well?
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I think his performances started to taper off towards the end of last season, he started to look like he couldn't be arsed, especially against Derby.
That and the sudden interest by Celtic I think probably put other things into his head.
Still a bit concerting that he isn't even making the squad when he showed so much potential last season.
Didn't we tie him up into a new deal at the start of the season as well?
Tells you everything about the squad changeover. At one point towards the end of the season due to injuries he was both the best ball carrier AND most creative midfielder on the books! Now he has Krov, Sawyers, Pez, Diagana and a fit again Phillips offering legs and creativity. If he applies himself he will get a chance at dome point and will need to shine.
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Where is Harper? Has the ability too walk into our first team.
Don't agree with this at all. Surprised he's not getting the occasional place on the bench though.....
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Whilst I don5 5hink he would “walk in†his absence from the bench is weird, he does seem to be the most natural replacement for Livermore/sawyers ....both of whom are playing well , but tiredness hits everyone .
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Where is Harper? Has the ability too walk into our first team.
Yes before the arrival of Sawyers,Perriara and Diangle
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Anyone know the latest on Harper? Seems very strange that he is yet to make an appearance this year, especially considering he was going to leave and was convinced by Slaven to renew. Would of thought that at least a couple of appearances would have been guaranteed to make him sign, maybe he is expecting to start featuring more in the christmas period and in the new year?
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Think he's just well down the pecking order like Brunt, Zohore and Townsend. He played in that league cup game vs Millwall and he did ok, nothing special. CM is a lot better this year than last year that's for sure.
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based on current squad quality hes not good enough to get on the bench and before anyone jumps down my throat then who would he replace?
brunt didnt even make the bench last night, barry was on there and i would rather have barry on there than harper.
when ever i have seen harper he has talent but does not work hard enough for a central midfield role. he had a chance against millwall in the cup this year and was very poor. Probably start against Charlton in the fa cup.
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The kid needs to be loaned out we have signed players who are ahead of him he will not develop if he doesn't get games.
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Preston on loan would be a good fit.
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based on current squad quality hes not good enough to get on the bench and before anyone jumps down my throat then who would he replace?
Bond. :D
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The kid needs to be loaned out we have signed players who are ahead of him he will not develop if he doesn't get games.
I think so, he will go stale otherwise, and he isn't getting a look in (unless we have a couple of long term injuries over Xmas)
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He should be at Walsall
Instantly improve their team 15%, he’d be guaranteed 90 mins every game, local so we can keep an eye on his progress
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He should be at Walsall
Instantly improve their team 15%, he’d be guaranteed 90 mins every game, local so we can keep an eye on his progress
Are you serious? They are 3rd bottom in league 2!! This guy played well in a top 4 championship team last season. A Championship team like Preston, Wigan or Hull would make sense.
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walsall no but certainly not a preston.
i would think bottom end of the championship, thats not to say thats his level but he needs games and a lot of them. not ready yet for 20-30 games in our team.
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Same level as Leko and Field so we should be looking to send him to a mid table Championship side.
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Would arguably have been a better option than Barry yesterday. We might as well loan him out for the 2nd half of the season.
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Would arguably have been a better option than Barry yesterday. We might as well loan him out for the 2nd half of the season.
100%
Vs leads we need energy , and I think we need a complete rethink
I’d be going with a 5 midfield
With. Semi and Harper
Just behind. Krov. Sawyers. Pereira
Energy, skill, pace
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Has something gone on behind the scenes/have I missed something? Had half forgotten about him in the last few months.
Whether it’s for sawyers/Livermore in the middle or Pereira at no.10, surely he deserves a go? Needs a bit of freshening up in the middle, even if it’s 20 mins off the bench.
Rate all 3 of the above and they’re undoubtedly first choice but don’t want legs getting heavy or things getting stale. Feels like it’s gone a bit flat and Harper could provide some of the energy we’ve been missing?
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Judging from when he burst onto the scene last season we have a player that should be on the bench and having minutes on the pitch. I think it's massive shame but like you like you say - has something gone on? Does the attitude stink?
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A good performance on Saturday, even if from the bench puts him in the shop window for a badly needed loan move. Charlton is one obvious destination with their injury problems but seeing as they have seen long term injuries to 2 of our players already you can't blame the club for having some questions around the conditioning work there.
Harper has talent and can come good but it shows how hard it is to develop young players. Harper burst on to the scene but tailed off after a while and by all accounts, hasn't done much in PL2 (under 23) football either.
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At times he was the most creative midfielder we had towards the end of last season, which proabably tells you more about Brut, Barry et al then anything else. The standard of our midfield has risen unmeasurably with the addition of Sawyers, Pereira, Grady and Krov which has also allowed Livermore to really raise his game. To get in over the experience of Brunt and Barry he would really need to be pulling up trees in the stiffs, but have heard very little positive feedback. Slav will have high expectations. Hunger??
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At times he was the most creative midfielder we had towards the end of last season, which proabably tells you more about Brut, Barry et al then anything else. The standard of our midfield has risen unmeasurably with the addition of Sawyers, Pereira, Grady and Krov which has also allowed Livermore to really raise his game. To get in over the experience of Brunt and Barry he would really need to be pulling up trees in the stiffs, but have heard very little positive feedback. Slav will have high expectations. Hunger??
I think hunger is the word. Towards the end of last season he looked distinctly lazy to me. An undoubted talent but it has to be coupled with desire. Check any top player for proof of that.
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There's been a lot of talk about Harper on the After Match Debate thread so thought i'd bring the debate here instead...
I think Harper has got the potential to be a top player; he can dribble, he can shoot, he can pass with good quality long and short too. I also think his positional play has improved from last year in terms of when to lay it off and sit deep and when to try and go to join or go beyond the strikers. He could be more tenacious in pressing off the ball and needs to improve his stamina, he has a large frame so hopefully that will come as he continues to mature and get stronger.
I think his best position is actually the one Krovinovic occupies, the more offensive of the three but I could be proven wrong longer term as he is quite adept and driving with the ball from deep. Some of the criticism of him comes from his languid style which I think is unfair, it looks to me like he does put the yards in. Personally, I would be happy with him playing regularly for us next season in either division.
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at just 19 year old he needs games and i think from what i have seen so far he is not ready to be a regular in our team either in the premier league or competing in championship.
He bypasses games in my opinion, backs out of challenges and does not close down or press off the ball. He is quite quick, and dribbles with the ball well and does have a good shot on him.
considering all of the above, he needs a full season next year playing week in, week out at a mid table/lower end Championship club like we arranged with Leko and Field.
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In my opinion, Harper is another Leko, lazy and over-hyped. His lack of stamina is shocking and he should be nowhere near the first team. If this was a signing and not 'one of our own' the patience would have worn thin a long time ago.
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In my opinion, Harper is another Leko, lazy and over-hyped. His lack of stamina is shocking and he should be nowhere near the first team. If this was a signing and not 'one of our own' the patience would have worn thin a long time ago.
I think if we had signed him as an 18-year old and he scored away at Villa Park and contributed as he did last year and then didn't get the opportunities this year, we would be clamouring for him to play more.
Regarding Leko, it's interesting that prior to his injury he was having a decent season at Charlton - perhaps we don't have enough patience as fans?
If we are comparing the two, I think Harper is streets ahead; his ball control, passing range and something that I think really separates good players from others is an appreciation of the pace of a pass, which are all good. I rate him highly, I of course could be proven wrong, but I think he is the most promising youngster we've produced since Berahino. I understand that I'm putting my neck on the line with this view!
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I think if we had signed him as an 18-year old and he scored away at Villa Park and contributed as he did last year and then didn't get the opportunities this year, we would be clamouring for him to play more.
Regarding Leko, it's interesting that prior to his injury he was having a decent season at Charlton - perhaps we don't have enough patience as fans?
If we are comparing the two, I think Harper is streets ahead; his ball control, passing range and something that I think really separates good players from others is an appreciation of the pace of a pass, which are all good. I rate him highly, I of course could be proven wrong, but I think he is the most promising youngster we've produced since Berahino. I understand that I'm putting my neck on the line with this view!
I have two issues with him. His apparent lack of stamina and his unwillingness to recover the ball when he loses possession.
Far from being the finished article, whether we get to see that here or if he has to move away, I'm not syre
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Played well last night, certainly the best of the midfield until Krovinovic came on but even then impressed with his chasing back, needs to be the next in line when a chance comes up.
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I have two issues with him. His apparent lack of stamina and his unwillingness to recover the ball when he loses possession.
Far from being the finished article, whether we get to see that here or if he has to move away, I'm not syre
I think I know what you mean regarding recovering the ball as he is a little like Brunt, he shows his frustration/disappointment on the pitch with his body language, however this maybe leads to a slight misinterpretation. Looking at the last 3 games, although a small sample, his tackling stats (according to whoscored.com) are fine:
WBA v PNE - 1 tackle
WBA v WA - 3 tackles (2nd most in game and got hooked early)
WBA v NU - 2 tackles (same as other midfielders Brunt and Barry)
The above suggests that he does win the ball enough and as mentioned, I think he is a more offensive minded midfielder in any case.
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I think I know what you mean regarding recovering the ball as he is a little like Brunt, he shows his frustration/disappointment on the pitch with his body language, however this maybe leads to a slight misinterpretation. Looking at the last 3 games, although a small sample, his tackling stats (according to whoscored.com) are fine:
WBA v PNE - 1 tackle
WBA v WA - 3 tackles (2nd most in game and got hooked early)
WBA v NU - 2 tackles (same as other midfielders Brunt and Barry)
The above suggests that he does win the ball enough and as mentioned, I think he is a more offensive minded midfielder in any case.
i think it is more the fact he does not seem to show the same amount of energy or willing to press or close down the opposition as other midfielders and when he has the ball.
i also think he goes missing for long periods in a game and on occasions very rarely shows for the ball, like he is just happy to coast through the game.
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i also think he goes missing for long periods in a game and on occasions very rarely shows for the ball, like he is just happy to coast through the game.
And this is why he requires a spell out on loan.
He needs to learn his position and therefore improve his game.
We’ve wasted a season of his development by allowing him to gain splinters in his backside
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Definitely needs a loan. I thought we would use him more this season but it hasn't turned out that way. Looks like we kept him as 4th backup in case of injuries and suspension and i suppose it's helped us but he's stagnated
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If we go up, he will need to be loaned to a solid champ side, he needs a pretty much full season of actual games
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I'm amused with the number of posters who think there is a burgeoning number of clubs who are queuing up to take our players that they think are deficient.
There is no absolute guarantee that a loan will enable players to develop at all, as the loanees may not get the required game time, and the clubs that take them may misuse them (e.g Gnabry).
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I'm amused with the number of posters who think there is a burgeoning number of clubs who are queuing up to take our players that they think are deficient.
There is no absolute guarantee that a loan will enable players to develop at all, as the loanees may not get the required game time, and the clubs that take them may misuse them (e.g Gnabry).
Leko and Field getting game time at a decent enough Charlton suggests there are opportunities out there.
Harper has loads of talent and clubs would be interested in him. I'd actually be looking at wherever Bowyer is next season as his destination.
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I think next year it's going to be important for us to have a whole crop of our youth players out on loan. For some we might see if they can keep on their development and make the step up to play premier league football or whether they will only forge a career in the lower leagues. Harper is one of many that needs to go out on loan
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In my opinion, Harper is another Leko, lazy and over-hyped. His lack of stamina is shocking and he should be nowhere near the first team. If this was a signing and not 'one of our own' the patience would have worn thin a long time ago.
I just don't get this "lazy" accusation. Against Newcastle he covered real ground trying to make up for the two pensioners along side him. Understandably by the end of the game his legs had gone.
He's 19 and only played so much last year because we had a paucity of CM's. He's been managed much better this year, and will only improve. As part of the learning process he will make bad decisions and play some poor passes (as he did the other night) but his ability to travel at pace with the ball and go past players is very good and he shows flashed of real skill. He does show his frustration to readily, but that doesn't seem to have stopped Brunt having a fantastic career.
This is a youth academy product who has signed a contract and will go through his developmental years with us. Might he make a top Championship or PL player? its too early to tell but unlike Barry, Rogers and Ferguson at least we will get to see the journey.
Have a word with yourself.
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I agree. He has a very languid running style, which perhaps creates the impression of laziness.
He was poor against Wigan, but I thought very good against Newcastle. His retention of the ball and recirculation in tight spaces are characteristics of a good player.
And I would be interested to see the Opta stats on ground covered, because to my eyes he was right at the top in terms of work rate.
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I just don't get this "lazy" accusation. Against Newcastle he covered real ground trying to make up for the two pensioners along side him. Understandably by the end of the game his legs had gone.
He's 19 and only played so much last year because we had a paucity of CM's. He's been managed much better this year, and will only improve. As part of the learning process he will make bad decisions and play some poor passes (as he did the other night) but his ability to travel at pace with the ball and go past players is very good and he shows flashed of real skill. He does show his frustration to readily, but that doesn't seem to have stopped Brunt having a fantastic career.
This is a youth academy product who has signed a contract and will go through his developmental years with us. Might he make a top Championship or PL player? its too early to tell but unlike Barry, Rogers and Ferguson at least we will get to see the journey.
Have a word with yourself.
After 'having a word with myself' I agree with me, he is lazy! He loses the ball and rather than chase after it to get it back he stands still shaking his head and moping about it, every single time!
So if he was carrying 2 pensioners against Newcastle and looked good, what was his excuse for being absolutely awful against Wigan??
He looks knackered the minute the games kicked off and there is nothing about him that screams star in the making to me, exactly the same as Leko or Field, if we sold any of them we would not miss them one bit.
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After 'having a word with myself' I agree with me, he is lazy! He loses the ball and rather than chase after it to get it back he stands still shaking his head and moping about it, every single time!
So if he was carrying 2 pensioners against Newcastle and looked good, what was his excuse for being absolutely awful against Wigan??
He looks knackered the minute the games kicked off and there is nothing about him that screams star in the making to me, exactly the same as Leko or Field, if we sold any of them we would not miss them one bit.
Blimey, mind made up!! I've seen plenty of shoddy looking players we've shelled out very good money for, so I'm happy to give one of our own a few years to develop either here or out on loan.
If he gets some more game time I'll be sure to keep an eye on his off the ball work rate, see if i can agree with you.
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Blimey, mind made up!! I've seen plenty of shoddy looking players we've shelled out very good money for, so I'm happy to give one of our own a few years to develop either here or out on loan.
If he gets some more game time I'll be sure to keep an eye on his off the ball work rate, see if i can agree with you.
I agree with your summing up. He is far from the finished article and I am not sure where the journey will take him. I am convinced however that he is well above Leko or Field given the respective ages of the guys.
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After 'having a word with myself' I agree with me, he is lazy! He loses the ball and rather than chase after it to get it back he stands still shaking his head and moping about it, every single time!
So if he was carrying 2 pensioners against Newcastle and looked good, what was his excuse for being absolutely awful against Wigan??
He looks knackered the minute the games kicked off and there is nothing about him that screams star in the making to me, exactly the same as Leko or Field, if we sold any of them we would not miss them one bit.
completely agree with this but i think field is a much better all round footballer than Harper. but thats just my opinion.
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Blimey, mind made up!! I've seen plenty of shoddy looking players we've shelled out very good money for, so I'm happy to give one of our own a few years to develop either here or out on loan.
If he gets some more game time I'll be sure to keep an eye on his off the ball work rate, see if i can agree with you.
I agree with that sentiment mate. Left to some on here, we would be getting rid of ( or sending out on loan, the likes of :)
Edwards , Field, Leko, Harper, O'shea . I don't know how or with whom, they expect to make up our squad for the Prem or indeed the Championship. Ferguson, Brunt and Barry gone, 3 loanees ??? ,and almost certainly a limited budget.
A reality check is required I think.
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I agree with that sentiment mate. Left to some on here, we would be getting rid of ( or sending out on loan, the likes of :)
Edwards , Field, Leko, Harper, O'shea . I don't know how or with whom, they expect to make up our squad for the Prem or indeed the Championship. Ferguson, Brunt and Barry gone, 3 loanees ??? ,and almost certainly a limited budget.
A reality check is required I think.
If you think any of them are anywhere near premier league ready you sir need the reality check! O' Shea is coming on well as is Edwards and to a point Harper is but as I have stated he is lazy and over-hyped because hes 'one of our own'.
If he is as great as some think he will be then a season away will prove it one way or another as he just wont get game time here next season and quite rightly too.
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If you think any of them are anywhere near premier league ready you sir need the reality check! O' Shea is coming on well as is Edwards and to a point Harper is but as I have stated he is lazy and over-hyped because hes 'one of our own'.
If he is as great as some think he will be then a season away will prove it one way or another as he just wont get game time here next season and quite rightly too.
Lazy and over-hyped could be attributed to a seasoned pro like Matt Phillips, let alone a relatively inexperienced 19 Year old.
I do not need a reality check to know that the majority of our squad are not of premier league quality, but some of the youngsters can grow into it. Phillips, Austin, Bartley, Robson-Kanu, Zohore, and Gibbs can not.
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If this crop of kids don’t “make it†and are “only championship†level there could a good £50m of talent there on today’s fees, that would justify the academy into the 2030’s
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Lazy and over-hyped could be attributed to a seasoned pro like Matt Phillips, let alone a relatively inexperienced 19 Year old.
I do not need a reality check to know that the majority of our squad are not of premier league quality, but some of the youngsters can grow into it. Phillips, Austin, Bartley, Robson-Kanu, Zohore, and Gibbs can not.
Would that be the Gibbs who has already played 170 EPL games? :o :D
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Would that be the Gibbs who has already played 170 EPL games? :o :D
Yes that's the one , who has not contributed a great deal for us this season, is a quite average defender, and like during his Arsenal career he misses too many games through injury. Would have been off like a shot at the end of last season, but no-one was interested. It's a continuing theme, everyone wants our youngsters, no-one wants our senior players, which says it all really.
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Did Gibbs put a transfer request in, I honestly don't remember us trying to get rid of him?
And you can't really blame him for being injured this season, we rushed him back and he got injured again. He's still, easily, the best LB at the club and probably one of the best in the division.
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Did Gibbs put a transfer request in, I honestly don't remember us trying to get rid of him?
And you can't really blame him for being injured this season, we rushed him back and he got injured again. He's still, easily, the best LB at the club and probably one of the best in the division.
He said no=one was interested, not that we tried to get rid of him. When a team is in the Championship, it is par for the course that Premier league teams will try to buy those players who are Premiership quality. The discussion was about whether Gibbs was Premier team quality and the fact no Premier team was sniffing around suggests he isn't. Definitely WAS at one time but not any more. Same with Philips. Same with Brunt. The point being that they are all past their sell by date (literally). Harper is only 19 and has progressed well so far. Will he ever be Premier League quality? None of us know. The difference between him and the afore mentioned is that Harper has many years to prove himself. The others don't.
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He said no=one was interested, not that we tried to get rid of him. When a team is in the Championship, it is par for the course that Premier league teams will try to buy those players who are Premiership quality. The discussion was about whether Gibbs was Premier team quality and the fact no Premier team was sniffing around suggests he isn't. Definitely WAS at one time but not any more. Same with Philips. Same with Brunt. The point being that they are all past their sell by date (literally). Harper is only 19 and has progressed well so far. Will he ever be Premier League quality? None of us know. The difference between him and the afore mentioned is that Harper has many years to prove himself. The others don't.
Thanks Timdon, I believe we are on the same wavelength.
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I know he’s one of our own but can we please stop persisting with him. Mid table champ player or league 1 at best
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Seems to have dropped off completely since the 3 year deal or did he just seem good compared to our nonexistent midfield last year of Livermore, Brunt etc.
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I know he’s one of our own but can we please stop persisting with him. Mid table champ player or league 1 at best
I don't believe in all this one of our own nonsense. Like Sam field and Kyle Edwards the bloke isn't good enough.
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I don't believe in all this one of our own nonsense. Like Sam field and Kyle Edwards the bloke isn't good enough.
100 per cent correct.... sadly
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I know he’s one of our own but can we please stop persisting with him. Mid table champ player or league 1 at best
Mid table championship is polite... shouldn’t be anyway near it. Not ready at all.
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Was huffing and puffing 5 minutes after coming on, Decision making isn't his thing either. Wasted that ball at the end.
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Poor today , looks tired which for a youngster he shouldn’t be , wasn’t at the races at all today would of been better if he’d been loaned out to Charlton and we would of kept Sam Field here
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He has talent, he shouldn't be dismissed as some are on here. His ability to turn and beat a man is absolutely there, and he can carry the ball. He can also pass the ball but for the last few games has been poor, and is going backwards when he should be developing.
We can't say why that is but I think after today Bilic will be very reluctant to put him in the side for the last three games.
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We've got away with it when he's come into the side before. He's not at the level to perform in a midfield 2, especially when we are chasing a game. He could probably get there with time.
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Could have played Phillips through the middle as an engine or even thrown brunt on.
However by time Rak came on we had really lost out shape and we had taken off grosicki and Austin and periera was tiring we had gone
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He hasn't talent, he shouldn't be dismissed as some are on here. His ability to turn and beat a man is absolutely there, and he can carry the ball. He can also pass the ball but for the last few games has been poor, and is going backwards when he should be developing.
We can't say why that is but I think after today Bilic will be very reluctant to put him in the side for the last three games.
He’s a kid who needs some guidance on the pitch from someone of the ilk of a McAuley to talk to him and advise him as the game goes on . He wasn’t helped In the last 20 minutes by Mr Wonderful aka Sawyers totally abdicating responsibility and strolling around and offering no leadership alongside him .
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if he is going to be worth a place in our first team he must go on loan and hopefully develop because at this stage in his career he offers precisely nothing to the team and must not feature at all on bench or pitch this season.
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if he is going to be worth a place in our first team he must go on loan and hopefully develop because at this stage in his career he offers precisely nothing to the team and must not feature at all on bench or pitch this season.
Absolutely agree he offers nothing and I don't see why Bilic has suddenly started using him after Harper barely getting a look in all season until the lockdown.
Needs to go out on loan for sure.
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Harper has been crying out for another loan move ever since he left Blackburn in league 1. He needs a full first team season at a Charlton/Huddersfield/Coventry etc. I think there is a player there who could if he gets going become a premier league midfielder but it isn't going to happen with us just yet.
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Hard to be too harsh on Harper , he"s been in need of a good loan for 18 months.
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He wasn't the sole reason why we appeared to be a different team in the last 20 but there is no doubt that he was the wrong sub.
Taking Livermore off led us to lose the midfield battle. If we had to take him off, Brunt was the sub. He would have retained composure and control. We just became the definition of a headless chicken - panicked, hitting balls out of play, all charging to the ball. It nearly lost us the game - probably should have.
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He wasn't the sole reason why we appeared to be a different team in the last 20 but there is no doubt that he was the wrong sub.
Taking Livermore off led us to lose the midfield battle. If we had to take him off, Brunt was the sub. He would have retained composure and control. We just became the definition of a headless chicken - panicked, hitting balls out of play, all charging to the ball. It nearly lost us the game - probably should have.
And this highlights bilic’s lack of nous ?
Brunt came on two games ago to steady the ship and did it well...why in gods name would you then not use the same player?
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And this highlights bilic’s lack of nous ?
Brunt came on two games ago to steady the ship and did it well...why in gods name would you then not use the same player?
because against Hull he used Brunt ostensibly as a replacement Sawyers and added Livermore to improve our defense (it was 3-2 at the time and they had come back level twice), at the same time taking Krov off and replacing Harper with Grady to return to our standard shape.
At Blackburn either Brunt replaces Sawyers and largely change nothing, or he replaces Livermore and he (in my mind) has similar issues to Harper and we lose the defensive ability in midfield.
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I'd be loaning him out or selling him next season regardless of division. He has alot to learn.
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I don't believe in all this one of our own nonsense. Like Sam field and Kyle Edwards the bloke isn't good enough.
I disagree that it is "nonsense". I don't mean sentimentality but financially if we have players that we can bring through that can be used as squad players or go on to play in the first team, then it is economically beneficial for the club. Of course there needs to be an element of trust and support from the club by giving them opportunities to play.
Harper certainly has elements of his game tht are quality, generally the more offensive elements, and some areas that really need addressing like his reading of the game, positioning and the defensive side. Edwards too has quality and has been effective at this level, more as a sub than a starter and these players shouldn't just be written off because they aren't there yet.
As others have said, we should be giving these players an opportunity to play via the loan system in situations where they really will play. If we go up, I'd fully expect that to happen, if we don't they'll be in the squad like they have been this year which probably won't be great for them as they need to play and start 30 games next year in my opinion.
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I'd be loaning him out or selling him next season regardless of division. He has alot to learn.
Not sure if he has the right attitude, seems to suffer from droopy shoulder syndrome.
I just don't think he's got what it takes at the moment, and even though he's still quite young I'm not sure he ever will
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Harper leko Edward's field all will need championship loans next year and it will be make or break for most of them...
If we fail to go up less will be out on loan as our squad will no doubt be very different
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They might all be playing Championship football next season.........
.......with us!
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Its his lack of energy & drive,that makes most of us question how much he wants to play football. He physically looks the real deal a & in rare moments in a game can shows it. A rocket up his backside or a size 10 boot might just might be called for. 12 months out on loan next season then reavaluate. n :-\
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Last night proved that Harper needs a loan. Scores a great goal then drifts out of the game! Frustrating.
His body language is interesting though as he gets really angry at himself if he misplaces a pass or loses possession, suggesting that his limitations could be as much mental as physical. At first glance he can come across as lazy or arrogant, but it could just be a deep lack of confidence.
Needs a loan where he's playing week in week out for a good man manager.
I think if he can sort out his confidence issues, we could still have a decent player on our books.
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100% agree. The little bits that he does well in a game, like his goal where he used skill to find space and how cleanly he strikes the ball, as well as moments in the second half where he would glide past a midfielder and easily make a cross field pass hint he has a top level talent base to work on. Problem is as you say, he was anonymous after his goal and only really came back into the game in the last half an hour and even then it was only in parts. A good example was when O'Shea gave the ball away and was caught out of position. Harper as the nearest man stood still and tried to claim a foul as the Harrogate player ran past him, while Sam Field tracked back to make the tackle.
A loan move, preferably to a side like Barnsley or Luton would give him a chance to play 35-40 games this season with managers who have good track records with young players. They might be able to help him to start taking more control of games, rather than letting large portions of games pass him by.
We haven't had a brilliant track record of getting young players the loan moves they need at the right time, but with Dowling seemingly learning his lesson this year with regards to this and with us having Gallagher and potentially now Field in Bilic's thinking, it would be a waste not to try to develop a talent like Harper in a better environment rather than him continue to have drips and drabs from the bench.
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Should be loaned out to the championship. Odd player, weird gait, doesn't seem to have any natural positional sense. Quick feet but doesn't come across like he knows what he's doing half the time.
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100% agree. The little bits that he does well in a game, like his goal where he used skill to find space and how cleanly he strikes the ball, as well as moments in the second half where he would glide past a midfielder and easily make a cross field pass hint he has a top level talent base to work on. Problem is as you say, he was anonymous after his goal and only really came back into the game in the last half an hour and even then it was only in parts. A good example was when O'Shea gave the ball away and was caught out of position. Harper as the nearest man stood still and tried to claim a foul as the Harrogate player ran past him, while Sam Field tracked back to make the tackle.
A loan move, preferably to a side like Barnsley or Luton would give him a chance to play 35-40 games this season with managers who have good track records with young players. They might be able to help him to start taking more control of games, rather than letting large portions of games pass him by.
We haven't had a brilliant track record of getting young players the loan moves they need at the right time, but with Dowling seemingly learning his lesson this year with regards to this and with us having Gallagher and potentially now Field in Bilic's thinking, it would be a waste not to try to develop a talent like Harper in a better environment rather than him continue to have drips and drabs from the bench.
Agree with large parts of this, he has great talent but could benefit from a full season so much. I see his best position as a number 8 who could probably play the 10 role too and probably most effective in a midfield 3. With Gallagher coming in, I presume Harper is now behind him there too but unless Krovinovic comes in as well, I don't see Harper going out on loan.
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I think it would be good for Harper to go out on loan as what we need right now he can't deliver. And the longer he stays with us playing a few minutes here or there will destroy his confidence further. Even if it was a short term loan as I do think he has the potential to be great. That's my take on him anyway :)
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Harper showed his skill yesterday but he needs consistency.
He should go to a championship club on loan and play more games to develop.
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A loan to a side like Luton would be excellent actually. A lot to learn.
I like Harper and think he has a lot of attributes which will make him a good player but he does not influence the game enough. He sometimes reminds me of the kid on the playground who wants to play with the big boys so stands on the periphery in case the ball comes near him.
He needs to really start getting involved and influencing the game more.
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He does need a loan but it wont happen until we get gallagher and krovonovic. Also theres another cup game next week which I imagine he will play in
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I think Harper is one of the most naturally talented players at the club, but I don't think he's quite developed his self confidence. He is still quite young so maybe that will come with more experience. In his position, he needs to sometimes demand the ball, not just wait and hope someone sees him. If he is handled well by the club and coaching staff, he could turn out to be one of our top players.
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With the signings of Gallagher and Krovinovic and the emergence of Sam Field as Bilic's preferred holding midfielder sub, it's crucial that Harper goes out on loan this window.
The club have got way better in 2020 at getting players out on loan rather than stagnating in our reserves and it is having some success, but there are still a couple of players screaming out for a loan move this window are Harper is the most important one.
A full season at championship or league 1 level, if at the right club, could be the making of him and be the succession planning for next season.
There is absolutely no benefit to keeping him at the club this window, not when we have Livermore, Sawyers, Field, Gallagher, Krov and Pereira to play those positions. Harper MUST go out on loan this window. Him, Soule and maybe even Shotton/Solanke.
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With the signings of Gallagher and Krovinovic and the emergence of Sam Field as Bilic's preferred holding midfielder sub, it's crucial that Harper goes out on loan this window.
The club have got way better in 2020 at getting players out on loan rather than stagnating in our reserves and it is having some success, but there are still a couple of players screaming out for a loan move this window are Harper is the most important one.
A full season at championship or league 1 level, if at the right club, could be the making of him and be the succession planning for next season.
There is absolutely no benefit to keeping him at the club this window, not when we have Livermore, Sawyers, Field, Gallagher, Krov and Pereira to play those positions. Harper MUST go out on loan this window. Him, Soule and maybe even Shotton/Solanke.
Agree with this, just concerned that it might not happen as if we switch to 433 as I expect, then you'd have 6 midfielders for the three roles as it currently stands:
Holding: Livermore/Field
Playmaking: Sawyers/Krovinovic
Box to box: Gallagher/Harper
Two players for each position is optimum although now we are out of the League Cup, perhaps a loan until January would be sensible. We need to get him regular games somehow.
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A year on loan in the Championship would do him a world of good. Needs to go to a team who play the right way. Somewhere like Blackburn or Swansea would be perfect.
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A year on loan in the Championship would do him a world of good. Needs to go to a team who play the right way. Somewhere like Blackburn or Swansea would be perfect.
Already been to Blackburn and couldn't get much of a look in .
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Already been to Blackburn and couldn't get much of a look in .
That was 3 years ago now which for a developing player is a long time so I'm doubtful it's that relevant to where he's at now. He clearly has ability but needs to switch on far more quickly in games and be more consistently involved. He would have competition for places wherever he went in the championship but that's more or less a given anyway these days.
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That was 3 years ago now which for a developing player is a long time so I'm doubtful it's that relevant to where he's at now. He clearly has ability but needs to switch on far more quickly in games and be more consistently involved. He would have competition for places wherever he went in the championship but that's more or less a given anyway these days.
It's a shame Charlton dropped , would hace been ideal for Harper.
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Should play v Arsenal over Sawyers.
How can he be any worse?
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Should play v Arsenal over Sawyers.
How can he be any worse?
That's my thinking also... what we got to lose as it stands
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That's my thinking also... what we got to lose as it stands
Sawyers has earnt a rest i'd say.
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Sky sports reporting that 4 championship clubs are interested in taking him on loan,
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Sky sports reporting that 4 championship clubs are interested in taking him on loan,
We need to get him out and get him some game time. No way he'll be playing here the rest of this season.
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We need to get him out and get him some game time. No way he'll be playing here the rest of this season.
PLus he's only got 18 months left on his contract. SO we need to make a decision at end of season whether to resign or sell.
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He should have gone out on loan last season, he's no kid anymore and hasn't played a handful of games.
I do feel a little for him even though I don't really rate him if I'm honest, but thats what I've seen of him and that ain't a lot.
Him and Edwards out on loan definitely.
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Harper will never be good enough sell him.
Edwards the same. He's 23 next month, for a winger that's not young anymore.
Neither going to make the level we need.
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Harper will never be good enough sell him.
Edwards the same. He's 23 next month, for a winger that's not young anymore.
Neither going to make the level we need.
Totally agree about both.
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Like others have said I'd be moving him and Edwards on. These aren't young acedemy players you can send out to get minutes now these are players we need to be making decisions on whether or not they are good enough for where we want to be and the obvious answer at the moment is they aren't.
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Totally agree about both.
I don’t agree - they are both fine for next season in the Championship.
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I don’t agree - they are both fine for next season in the Championship.
That’s a fair point. However I even have doubts about them at that level, especially Harper. Lacks bottle for me.
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That’s a fair point. However I even have doubts about them at that level, especially Harper. Lacks bottle for me.
They both need game time. Both need to be out on loan playing every week in the Championship
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Sky sports reporting that 4 championship clubs are interested in taking him on loan,
Please let him go, it's meaningless to keep him here but playing in PL2 games for most of the season.
The club can elevate is he good enough for championship, to prepare for next season squad.
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Definately loan him out, along with Edwards and Field. They will all be assets in the EFL next year so worth keeping on the books longer term.
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Edwards and Harper will both be fine in a championship squad, and probably get a reasonable amount of minutes. The fact they would probably both start for 12 championship sides shows how strong our squad will still likely be next season.
They will both be far more use to us if they go and get 20 games somewhere this season though.
For Rakeem, that would at least double, perhaps triple the amount of professional minutes he has played which is shocking given how long he has been on the scene. It's 4 years this summer since he first went on loan to league one.
Harper has decent attributes, he needs experience and to toughen up. He will only do that by being part of a first team and being relied upon to perform.
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We have bring a proper DM and RH has to go out on loan before he stagnates to oblivion.
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Can't remember the last one that went out and came back better for it, certainly not at his age. Think this will be shop window, a-la Leko and he will be sold. How well he does will just determine the asking price.
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Sell him. He wont make it.
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Can't remember the last one that went out and came back better for it, certainly not at his age. Think this will be shop window, a-la Leko and he will be sold. How well he does will just determine the asking price.
Morton is a similar age and his loan last season really helped.
Harper seems like he needs a kick up the backside to me. Does he want to be a championship player or does he aspire to be a top flight player.
I dont see how there can be any debate he needs games though.
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Definitely needs games so I think a loan would still do him good.
Players at other clubs have gone on loan at his age and it has done them good plus his only loan to date was to Blackburn when he was probably too young.
Massively stagnated development as doesn't look any better than when he came into the side two years ago, hence a loan could still be beneficial.
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Blues Twitter saying he's joining them on loan. Nothing concrete i can see yet though.
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Confirmed by BBC WM
"Richard Wilford
@wilfordwm
The young #wba midfielder Rekeem Harper has had a medical at #bcfc with a view to a loan move through until the end of the season."
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Good move
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Good move
Yes I agree. If he cant get 20+ games from now to end of season that surely a failing on him as a player.
Need him to keep improving we might well need him next year in championship. And at some point we really need to shift on both our current cms
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Good move
I'm not sure it is, Blues are a mess and have a defensive minded manager when Harper isn't a defensive minded player. Maybe he'll get played further forward and have some freedom, let's see. It is good that he has got a move though.
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I'm not sure it is, Blues are a mess and have a defensive minded manager when Harper isn't a defensive minded player. Maybe he'll get played further forward and have some freedom, let's see. It is good that he has got a move though.
KAranka said he wants Harper because he is attacking, wants him as a number 8 as he's already got 2 number 6s
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KAranka said he wants Harper because he is attacking, wants him as a number 8 as he's already got 2 number 6s
Thanks for the info, Harper looked better when he played more advanced for us under Shan. We will see what happens, Karanka is a very defensive minded manager so will be interesting how much freedom he has, even as the attacking midfielder.
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Thanks for the info, Harper looked better when he played more advanced for us under Shan. We will see what happens, Karanka is a very defensive minded manager so will be interesting how much freedom he has, even as the attacking midfielder.
Harper will be better served playing in the EFL reguarly for me. End of this season he enters his last year so stick or twist time.
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Playing alongside his mate Jon Leko is a possible positive. He definitely needed the loan move and while Karanka is defensive, I don’t necessarily see that as a negative. He might learn structure which has been his biggest weakness so far. He will need to learn to stop drifting in and out of games - having the odd big moment like a shot or a good pass isn’t enough.
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Really pleased for him. Hope he sets the place on fire (not literally...) and comes back to us another step along the road to being the player people think he can be!
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Really pleased for him. Hope he sets the place on fire (not literally...) and comes back to us another step along the road to being the player people think he can be!
Always hope this when we loan someone out but my gut feeling is that we will not see Rekeem in our first team again. :(
Will make a good living but will never hit the heights.
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Confirmed on OS now. Good luck and increase your value for us at the very least.
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Good luck Rekeem. I hope you can get game time and push on for your own good and that of the Albion's
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Should have gone out in the summer as a I was moaning about back then, but glad he has gone now.
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Good luck Rekeem hope you do well.
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Fingers crossed for the lad! It's a big half season for him which could boost the career with us. Certainly hope so.
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https://www.twtd.co.uk/ipswich-town-news/40428/town-close-in-on-west-brom-midfielder-harper
Not sure if there is any truth in this as not seen anywhere else.
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Good luck to him, I don’t think he ever looked good enough and the hype around him when he broke through was unwarranted.
Should be good in league one though, wouldn’t be a surprise to see Edwards join him.
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He’s got all the attributes but somethings missing.
I think 46 games in league one would do him the world of good though. There’s a solid championship player there in the future.
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He’s got all the attributes but somethings missing.
I think 46 games in league one would do him the world of good though. There’s a solid championship player there in the future.
It’s almost like he needs a rocket up the backside or for something to click in mentally. As you said he was the ability to make a decent career, think a perm move to a league 1 team could really kick start his career. Looks like another squad position needs filling.
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Fee rumoured to be £0.5m only one year left on his contract and going to a League 1 club think that's about as good as it gets I'm afraid.
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Fee rumoured to be £0.5m only one year left on his contract and going to a League 1 club think that's about as good as it gets I'm afraid.
We currently have sawyers and Livermore left as centre midfielders.
And potentially Snodgrass depending on his return to fitness and where we see his future.
Time to get recruiting!
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There was an interview with him only two days ago about how he wants to estanlish himself this year in the West Brom midfield ::)
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Another one we’ve wasted when he should have been out playing regular football..
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Scratching my head here? Surely worth a look at for the new gaffer?
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I never really felt that he has the level of application required to play even at Championship level, so I can't imagine gegenpressing being his thing at all. All things considered, I think it's right to move him on.
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Stagnated here. Take the .5m, get the 10k pw off the books. Thats another 1m in the mighty warchest
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Perhaps worth a cheeky look?
But if were serious about promotion and progression then he's not going to make it with us.
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Stagnated here. Take the .5m, get the 10k pw off the books. Thats another 1m in the mighty warchest
That plus a sell on % i agree.
If we could get Livermore out the door this summer we would be laughing
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That plus a sell on % i agree.
If we could get Livermore out the door this summer we would be laughing
I don't think anyone is going to match the 20k per week we will be paying him sadly.
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That plus a sell on % i agree.
If we could get Livermore out the door this summer we would be laughing
Given the penny-pinching feel of the club thus far I fear he me be a starter!
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Given the penny-pinching feel of the club thus far I fear he me be a starter!
I'd also agree that he will likely be starting :(
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Maybe Brunt can out of retirement ;)
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The problem is that we are desperate for one of our own young lads to show promise and do well, that when they do break into the first team we as fans expect more from them than they are able to give.
Harper had a few good games for us but looked, in the main, that he didn't have a lot of stamina or the heart when the pressure was on.
Hope he does well wherever he ends up.
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We currently have sawyers and Livermore left as centre midfielders.
And potentially Snodgrass depending on his return to fitness and where we see his future.
Time to get recruiting!
None of those 3 is suitable for a high tempo pressing game supposedly favoured by incoming head honcho . Its alright trying to save a few bob but make sure you have a team/ squad first
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Harper's is a sad tale really and one we need to put right if we want to keep our best academy players. Premier league debut at 17, breakthrough season at 19 but we failed to help him kick on with irregular football and a lack of loan opportunities.
A move to league 1 under Cook could be perfect. He has a lot of attributes that could make him a midfielder England lack. A deep lying, athletic player, with a great range of passing and who can chip in with goals (2 great finishes while here).
He needs to work on his application - no good only playing 20 minutes and then missing the next 70, or putting in one great performance and then going AWOL for the next 2 or 3 games.
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Good luck to Harper, he's the latest in a long line of potentially good players who for one reason or another have failed to break into the team/ game substantially. Maybe none of them were good enough or maybe the structures at our club failed them - bit of both I think.
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There is talent there but its pretty damning that you would have to say that Harper is not a better player now than he was when he came into the side at 17/18. Has technical talent but he's one of the worst off the ball players i've ever seen - either doesn't want to, or cannot develop that side of his game so he's a total passenger without the ball, and generally did not show for the ball much either - he was consistently our midfield with the least touches and passes whenever he played.
Maybe a lower level will help him develop into the player he might be, but as with Field, it was increasingly difficult to see it ever happening here.
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There is talent there but its pretty damning that you would have to say that Harper is not a better player now than he was when he came into the side at 17/18. Has technical talent but he's one of the worst off the ball players i've ever seen - either doesn't want to, or cannot develop that side of his game so he's a total passenger without the ball, and generally did not show for the ball much either - he was consistently our midfield with the least touches and passes whenever he played.
Maybe a lower level will help him develop into the player he might be, but as with Field, it was increasingly difficult to see it ever happening here.
I watched Harper closely a couple of seasons ago in a home game when we had someone unavailable in midfield (cant remember the details). Harper was supposed to be playing the right side of a three and the starter of the press, which Livermore had been doing previously.
He (Harper) was absolutely dreadful he didnt have a clue where he was supposed to be in or out of possession and he hadnt got a clue what do or when to do it. The game just went on around him the whole time.
Herein lies his biggest problem for me, he lacks footballing intelligence and tactically is nowhere near aware enough.
I wish him well but he's never been good enough. Technically, he's not bad but other aspects of his game leave him well short of what we need.
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Agree with this assessment of Harper. It's puzzled me whether his going AWOL when not in possession was lack of nous or lack of the right coaching. Cook maybe the one who can solve this riddle.
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I watched Harper closely a couple of seasons ago in a home game when we had someone unavailable in midfield (cant remember the details). Harper was supposed to be playing the right side of a three and the starter of the press, which Livermore had been doing previously.
He (Harper) was absolutely dreadful he didnt have a clue where he was supposed to be in or out of possession and he hadnt got a clue what do or when to do it. The game just went on around him the whole time.
Herein lies his biggest problem for me, he lacks footballing intelligence and tactically is nowhere near aware enough.
I wish him well but he's never been good enough. Technically, he's not bad but other aspects of his game leave him well short of what we need.
If fans could spot this 2 years ago why couldnt the club?
It is as if the club hopes we will breed a superstar that will slot straight in to the premier league as a teenager and instantly be worth £20m. When the evidence shows 95% of the academy players produced by us who have gone on to reach decent levels in the past 10 years have needed to get out and get experience and ply their trade.
Being accountable in league one for 50 games, 90 minutes week in week out is far better than 200 minutes a season from our bench. That game mentality and experience will come in time as it does with most players.
If we think they can play for a club at the top of league one, send them to a mid table side. If we think the can play mid table, send them to a side likely fighting relegation. Try and guarantee them minutes first of all. They will hopefully have to battle if they come back here so battle harden them. It also sets a minimum level / foundation for the youth player too which i've heard seen an academy coach talk about before.
Once they've got 50 games and 5000 minutes as a pro you can worry about what they do next.
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Fee rumoured to be £500k upfront. Rising to £1.5m if Ipswich are promoted.
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Fee rumoured to be £500k upfront. Rising to £1.5m if Ipswich are promoted.
Thats fair. I would like a sell on included in possible but end of the days thats 1m kept in the kitty for a lad who wasnt going to have much of a role.
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Fee rumoured to be £500k upfront. Rising to £1.5m if Ipswich are promoted.
I wonder if we're going to hurry this through to enable us to afford compensation for a new head coach..
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I wonder if we're going to hurry this through to enable us to afford compensation for a new head coach..
Sold Morgan to fund Bilić I believe.
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For me Rekeem Harper, is the best of our current crop of young prospects. I have watched him in the two league cup games, and I think he is ready to make a claim for a start in the first team. He is comfortable on the ball, passes it well, looks to get forward, and is quite strong in the challenge.
Tonight alongside Gareth Barry I thought he was excellent, and if he continues to be overlooked for at least a place on the bench, for the likes of Morrison and Brunt and Barry then we may just as well abandon the academy.Sam Field, Kyle Edwards, Olly Burke and Jonathan Leko, are other young players who are being held back by the persistence of playing the old guard. I am concerned that because our start to the season has so far been a somewhat stuttering one, that Darren Moore will not risk our youngsters.
I am convinced that there is no risk in giving Rekeem Harper, Chris Brunt's place in the team, because he will do a better job partnering Livermore.
I started this thread back in August 2018, because I thought we had a star in the making. I don't know how or why it all went wrong, but I do think that as a club we are afraid to give opportunity to very promising youngsters. Bilic was brave enough to "throw in " youngsters, and Ferguson and Dara came from nowhere and quickly became regulars. To be fair I think he did try to encourage Rekeem too, but apparently did not get the required response.
Good luck Rekeem it is now down to you alone to make a career for yourself. I think you have the tools , it's now time to show the application
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Sold Morgan to fund Bilić I believe.
Amazing that we have to sell the family silver to appoint a head coach.
The most important position at the football club and we're scratching around the floor looking for pennies.
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I wonder if we're going to hurry this through to enable us to afford compensation for a new head coach..
It would be simpler to just make Harper the head coach! In fact, perhaps the simplicity of it will be attractive to the Board?! :-X
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Amazing that we have to sell the family silver to appoint a head coach.
The most important position at the football club and we're scratching around the floor looking for pennies.
I saw a journalist post as such on twitter but I tend to think we sold Morgan because we had no choice - Man City wanted him and Morgan wanted to go.
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I saw a journalist post as such on twitter but I tend to think we sold Morgan because we had no choice - Man City wanted him and Morgan wanted to go.
I had heard that Morgan was happy to stay. We wanted the money.
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I saw a journalist post as such on twitter but I tend to think we sold Morgan because we had no choice - Man City wanted him and Morgan wanted to go.
Supposedly the issue was timing and price. We rushed a deal.through at a lower fee to ensure we had the funds for Bilić
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That's awfully short sighted if true.
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That's awfully short sighted if true.
I'll see your short-sighted and raise you an embarrassing!
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£500k seems way too cheap for me even with add-ons. We are remarkably short of depth at centre mid and I’d sooner we keep Harper, who could well improve into a starter at this level, than Livermore who we know won’t improve.
Yes we have premier league aspirations but let’s not get ahead of ourselves - right now we are a championship club with limited funds and a sizeable rebuild on our hands. We need to sign at least 2 CMs so why not keep Harper as a serviceable 3rd/4th choice there and see if he can develop/impress beyond that in pre-season.
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I watched this lad come on a few times in his early days and really thought he would be a very good player and he may still be, he has everything to become one except a vital ingredient and that is Heart, if a good coach can capture his and get him going there is a player in there but I worry it may never surface.
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To sell him whilst managerless is utterly stupid and shows exactly where our priorities lie. The paltry transfer fee and his wages off the bill will make little or no difference in the great scheme of things so why rush him out the door until the new coach/manager has had good look at him
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Many players look good at 18/19/20 when they are boys in men's bodies with all the confidence and energy of youth. Unfortunately, most do not go on, become more aware and improve. Sadly, Rakeem seems to fall into this category. He looked such a prospect. Good luck, fella, I hope you have a good career.
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I watched Harper closely a couple of seasons ago in a home game when we had someone unavailable in midfield (cant remember the details). Harper was supposed to be playing the right side of a three and the starter of the press, which Livermore had been doing previously.
He (Harper) was absolutely dreadful he didnt have a clue where he was supposed to be in or out of possession and he hadnt got a clue what do or when to do it. The game just went on around him the whole time.
Herein lies his biggest problem for me, he lacks footballing intelligence and tactically is nowhere near aware enough.
I wish him well but he's never been good enough. Technically, he's not bad but other aspects of his game leave him well short of what we need.
This is a very accurate assessment of the player. Sadly not good enough.
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That's awfully short sighted if true.
'I had heard', and ‘supposedly' is a dead giveaway.
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If fans could spot this 2 years ago why couldnt the club?
It is as if the club hopes we will breed a superstar that will slot straight in to the premier league as a teenager and instantly be worth £20m. When the evidence shows 95% of the academy players produced by us who have gone on to reach decent levels in the past 10 years have needed to get out and get experience and ply their trade.
Being accountable in league one for 50 games, 90 minutes week in week out is far better than 200 minutes a season from our bench. That game mentality and experience will come in time as it does with most players.
If we think they can play for a club at the top of league one, send them to a mid table side. If we think the can play mid table, send them to a side likely fighting relegation. Try and guarantee them minutes first of all. They will hopefully have to battle if they come back here so battle harden them. It also sets a minimum level / foundation for the youth player too which i've heard seen an academy coach talk about before.
Once they've got 50 games and 5000 minutes as a pro you can worry about what they do next.
Bang on. It's like training in a martial art or sparring. Anyone can look good in training.
It's beyond me that our club hasn't loaned him out more. Is his move to Ipswich good or bad? Really no one knows...because we've barely seen any of him. Since his debut with us he's played 18 games at Birmingham. That's been 4 seasons - why is this seen as acceptable?!
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Bang on. It's like training in a martial art or sparring. Anyone can look good in training.
It's beyond me that our club hasn't loaned him out more. Is his move to Ipswich good or bad? Really no one knows...because we've barely seen any of him. Since his debut with us he's played 18 games at Birmingham. That's been 4 seasons - why is this seen as acceptable?!
Absolutely spot on and its worse than unacceptable, we have a man (John Terrys brother) in charge of the kids loans / development, he is doing a freakin embarrassingly bad job when judged on results.
Where are the pathways from youth to senior team, our kids either fail dismally or flicker briefly and then leave for lower leagues. There is NO development from 18 onwards.
I know there are folks on here who watch the kids assiduously and i will bow to their greater knowledge but the above is how it seems to me.
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To sell him whilst managerless is utterly stupid and shows exactly where our priorities lie. The paltry transfer fee and his wages off the bill will make little or no difference in the great scheme of things so why rush him out the door until the new coach/manager has had good look at him
To be fair to the club, the entire point of a Director of Football model is so that footballing decisions can be made without a head coach being in place, or at least, we don't have to rely on them being in place.
I understand the retort "well what if the new manager likes the look of Harper", but at some point Dowling has to keep things ticking over.
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To be fair to the club, the entire point of a Director of Football model is so that footballing decisions can be made without a head coach being in place, or at least, we don't have to rely on them being in place.
That would be more acceptable if our Director of Football (or whatever Dowling's job title is) wasn't hopeless!
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Think it is too early to be easing Harper out the club. Its not as if we are overloaded with creative midfielders. Besides Livermore and Sawyers, who else is there (assuming MP goes)? In his latest interview, Harper says his priority is to come back and win a first team place here. Also £1million is too much of a bargain for any buyer. We seem to specialise in paying over the top for players and giving away our own talent on the cheap. Dowling or whoever seem to have very little grasp of player values.
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Deal for Harper to Ipswich has been held up due to Albion's on going search for coach. Now that is a sensible bit of news, player might have a role with new man installed.
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Deal for Harper to Ipswich has been held up due to Albion's on going search for coach. Now that is a sensible bit of news, player might have a role with new man installed.
Good news if that's true. As a player under contract of couse he should be assessed by the new man.
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Let him go, he has flashes in games but his overall game for 90 minutes is poor, decent kid but not one to dig in and fight, busting a gut tracking and tackling. My observations
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So does this mean the gaffer they had in place was happy to let him go or?
I’m so confused at who is making these decisions. Why even have the discussions until the new boss comes in with a player like Harper
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Same as Field - generating income in any way possible to fund transfers and/or manager wages.
Field went to get BIg Sam in.
Harper will go to get the new manager in.
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Afraid I can't see the lad ever making the grade at Championship level let alone Premiership. Sell and bank the money for the new manager.
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Afraid I can't see the lad ever making the grade at Championship level let alone Premiership. Sell and bank the money for the new manager.
Another one not good enough unfortunately.
Time to move on if we have any sort of ambition in The Championship.
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Harpers big chance was at Birmingham last season where he had the chance to prove he was ready for that level and he failed.
The key is to keep the players who develop as they should and sell those that arent developing to the correct level, this may come back to bite the club but we cant keep players just because one day they 'might' reach their potential.
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Agree with Dudleylad, time to sell. Get a good fee and wish him luck. If he develops well at Ipswich, there is no guarantee he would have done so here.
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Think club and coaches are to blame for our academy players with potential not improving. In the case of Harper who had a taste of prem football under Pulis then you would have thought that Big Daves appointment would have been ideal for Rekeem a coach who had dealings with him in youth system but he trusted the senior pros than him. Club should have loaned the boy out if coach had no intention of playing him. Same problem has occurred with Field, Edwards and lad that went to bluenoses development stunted by coaches who arnt sure about their own decisions never mind player's ability
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Think club and coaches are to blame for our academy players with potential not improving. In the case of Harper who had a taste of prem football under Pulis then you would have thought that Big Daves appointment would have been ideal for Rekeem a coach who had dealings with him in youth system but he trusted the senior pros than him. Club should have loaned the boy out if coach had no intention of playing him. Same problem has occurred with Field, Edwards and lad that went to bluenoses development stunted by coaches who arnt sure about their own decisions never mind player's ability
Totally agree - that season under Moore was such a waste for field and Harper when they had to watch two blokes knocking on 40 parading around in our midfield
We should have got them out on loan much quicker rather than stifling them by merely having them around the place.
Harper has quality but he looks more of a street footballer than a pro - doesn’t get involved and has no sense positionally. They should have been ironed out during loan spells
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Think club and coaches are to blame for our academy players with potential not improving. In the case of Harper who had a taste of prem football under Pulis then you would have thought that Big Daves appointment would have been ideal for Rekeem a coach who had dealings with him in youth system but he trusted the senior pros than him. Club should have loaned the boy out if coach had no intention of playing him. Same problem has occurred with Field, Edwards and lad that went to bluenoses development stunted by coaches who arnt sure about their own decisions never mind player's ability
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So true! Unfortunately. But still a perfect description of the problem Paulo, especially the last bit
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Wasn't it under Moore when Harper had his first proper run of games in the first team? He came into the team in January and got a run of about eight or nine games.
It was Leko who got a look-in under Pulis, and Field has had cameos here and there.
Edit:
Career Appearances - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rekeem-harper/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/456877
Championship season (16 appearances) - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/rekeem-harper/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/456877/plus/0/saison/2018/wettbewerb/GB2/verein/984
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I checked and Harper got a game against Barnsley in March so Ismael has seen him play last season which is more than most of us have done. Quite what he would have made of him is anybody's guess on the face of it Harper's performance was hardly eye catching and Birmingham barely got out of their own half so he has seen him playing in a low block.
It is sensible to pause the transfer until the new coach is in the building although I suspect the outcome is quite likely to be the same. Harper is still of an age where if he meets the right coach and critically gets a run of games he could develop.
I would add that the coach we need is the one that takes a player like Harper and works with them rather than walking into the club with a shopping list of "their" players.
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There have been a few players over the years that have broken the first team then just sat out, no loans or few appearances for us. I think we have successfully stunted the growth of Field, Harper, Leko and Edwards and killed their confidence. You can make a very strong argument that all may not be/have been good enough but each of them have hit a moment where they broke in, looked great and were then dropped and then absolutely no development plan in place beyond training.
I personally think we should give Harper one more season, with only Sawyers and Livermore in CM on the books and Harper sounding motivated and more dynamic than the other two - he has to have an opportunity. He may have failed by January but we have to give these players a chance, 5, 10, 15 minute appearances at the end of games are not that chance.
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There have been a few players over the years that have broken the first team then just sat out, no loans or few appearances for us. I think we have successfully stunted the growth of Field, Harper, Leko and Edwards and killed their confidence. You can make a very strong argument that all may not be/have been good enough but each of them have hit a moment where they broke in, looked great and were then dropped and then absolutely no development plan in place beyond training.
I personally think we should give Harper one more season, with only Sawyers and Livermore in CM on the books and Harper sounding motivated and more dynamic than the other two - he has to have an opportunity. He may have failed by January but we have to give these players a chance, 5, 10, 15 minute appearances at the end of games are not that chance.
I think that the sentiment of your post is 100% correct. I would add though, and it is purely my own opinion, that the 4 players you mention are not good enough and will never make us wish they had been kept. Time will tell for sure.
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Its only right that the transfer gets put on hold until the new manager has had a chance to look at him. I think we will need some very fit midfielders. Also when you look at the fee of just one million, we don't stand to lose a lot of money. If there are better midfielders who become available, we can always review our decision.
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I think that the sentiment of your post is 100% correct. I would add though, and it is purely my own opinion, that the 4 players you mention are not good enough and will never make us wish they had been kept. Time will tell for sure.
I probably agree with you but my main gripe is how all of them barring Edwards perhaps were handled at a crucial point of their development. Leko v West Ham, Field when he had a run with Megson and Harper when he broke the team all looked like players that could go somewhere and were then mishandled.
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I probably agree with you but my main gripe is how all of them barring Edwards perhaps were handled at a crucial point of their development. Leko v West Ham, Field when he had a run with Megson and Harper when he broke the team all looked like players that could go somewhere and were then mishandled.
Can’t argue with this.
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I don't think that many will have expected Chris Wood and Kemar Roofe to go on and develop the way they have.
I think Edwards, Harper and Field in that order have the ability to do similar. Sometimes it seems to need the right manager, regular game time, luck with injuries or just something to click in the brain for players to re-launch their careers. As a club we need to ask how that transition from England age groups to first team can be more productive for us.
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The mere fact Ipswich want him says it all I'm afraid. He showed vert little whilst at Birmingham. We have an offer on the table. Take it before it's withdrawn.
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Be interesting to see if Val keeps him.
His age and ability to work harder than RS and JL might mean he’s kept around for abit.
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Be interesting to see if Val keeps him.
His age and ability to work harder than RS and JL might mean he’s kept around for abit.
Whatever we may say about JL I have seen no evidence at all of Harper working harder than him.
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The mere fact Ipswich want him says it all I'm afraid. He showed vert little whilst at Birmingham. We have an offer on the table. Take it before it's withdrawn.
If we're serious about mounting a promotion challenge then this lad shouldn't be part of it.
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I don't think that many will have expected Chris Wood and Kemar Roofe to go on and develop the way they have.
I think Edwards, Harper and Field in that order have the ability to do similar. Sometimes it seems to need the right manager, regular game time, luck with injuries or just something to click in the brain for players to re-launch their careers. As a club we need to ask how that transition from England age groups to first team can be more productive for us.
Spot on, I sometime think coaches take the easy option of using old players and not investing in the young lads, most likely because they are under such pressure to get results at all costs, Valerien has a 4 year contract so hopefully can allocate time and resources to getting younger players transitioned into the first team
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Gone to Ipswich (undisclosed). So much for taking a look ;D
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Probably spoken to a few people and watched the compilation of his highlights; 2 minutes later, decision made :D
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Good luck Rekeem!
Any sell-on clause?
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Good luck Rekeem!
Any sell-on clause?
OS doesn't say. Very brief. Imagine more details to come out later.
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Gone to Ipswich (undisclosed). So much for taking a look ;D
I think this is for the best as he doesn't seem to have it in him to play in the manner that Valerien will require. All the best to him at Ipswich.
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Wages off the bill, which can only be a good thing. £500k initial plus add ons plus possibly a sell-on (not clear), from local Journos.
Plus, another £500k minimum to the tally of fees raised from Academy products.
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Good luck Rekeem, should have been given a chance by Moore and Shan who new him well from youth setup.
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Good luck Rekeem, should have been given a chance by Moore and Shan who new him well from youth setup.
Surely that's quite telling if they knew him well and still chose not to use him. Not good enough much like Field hence why none of these coaches are using them.
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I have no problem with his leaving as I don’t think he’s good enough. A little strange in terms of timing though. New coach surely has had no say either way which I do find odd.
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I have no problem with his leaving as I don’t think he’s good enough. A little strange in terms of timing though. New coach surely has had no say either way which I do find odd.
Agreed it would be strange but he has been appointed so he may well have run his eyes over footage of Harper's 1st team appearances and OK'd the deal.
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Didn't give the new manager much opportunity to cast his eye over. Maybe they are very confident about having a new creative midfielder lined up.
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It would have made more sense to delay the deal for a month to allow the new manager to assess the player. He may have seen in Harper something others haven’t. Definitely short sighted sale in my view. I hope it doesn’t come back to haunt us.
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The new manager has probably studied Harper's data already and unsurprisingly decided he wont cut it. I'd be amazed if Sawyers figures next season as well.
Sometimes you just need to look at the stats.
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The new manager has probably studied Harper's data already and unsurprisingly decided he wont cut it. I'd be amazed if Sawyers figures next season as well.
Sometimes you just need to look at the stats.
I can't see that Sawyers is going to make it under Ismael either.
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The new manager has probably studied Harper's data already and unsurprisingly decided he wont cut it. I'd be amazed if Sawyers figures next season as well.
Sometimes you just need to look at the stats.
How can you assess a player by just looking at stats? They don't give a complete picture. Also diferent players fit into different systems better.
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It just proves that the football side of things didn’t stop, like some seemed convinced of, when Dowling went.
The wheels have continued turning.
Not good enough for us in all honesty maybe this will be his break but we have given him a fantastic start.
Another academy success
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How can you assess a player by just looking at stats? They don't give a complete picture. Also diferent players fit into different systems better.
If, for example, you are a manager that demands a high press or a certain distance covered in games it would be pretty clear that Sawyers and Harper are going to fall well short.
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Another academy success
It is if you see the purpose of the Academy as being to produce players of League 1 or League 2 standard. To my mind, unless players are regularly produced who become fixtures in our first team, the Academy is failing.
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If, for example, you are a manager that demands a high press or a certain distance covered in games it would be pretty clear that Sawyers and Harper are going to fall well short.
Yes, if you took the view that players can never change or be coached.
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It is if you see the purpose of the Academy as being to produce players of League 1 or League 2 standard. To my mind, unless players are regularly produced who become fixtures in our first team, the Academy is failing.
Any academy sabotaged by Dowling
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On the official site -
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/rekeem-harper-joins-ipswich
Undisclosed fee
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It is if you see the purpose of the Academy as being to produce players of League 1 or League 2 standard. To my mind, unless players are regularly produced who become fixtures in our first team, the Academy is failing.
In my mind the academy’s job is to have a positive net worth and perform well in relation to academies at clubs of a similar size (in terms of players making it, not youth team results). The net worth can either be players in our first team or players sold.
I don’t know enough about other academies to know if our output is good comparatively, but it does seem to have a positive net worth over the past few years.
With that said I do think harper may be a success for the academy but I do wonder if the club failed him and the academy in the early days of his pro career.
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Good luck Rekeem, all the best for the future.
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It is if you see the purpose of the Academy as being to produce players of League 1 or League 2 standard. To my mind, unless players are regularly produced who become fixtures in our first team, the Academy is failing.
What a load of nonsense, if that were true Man City would never buy anybody, they would just get the best kids and build a team.
Any player that comes through our academy and has a professional career is a success. The vast majority of academy players do not.
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What a load of nonsense, if that were true Man City would never buy anybody, they would just get the best kids and build a team.
Any player that comes through our academy and has a professional career is a success. The vast majority of academy players do not.
You may disagree with the previous poster but the opinion is as valid as yours. In short can we not refer to someone's comments as 'a load of nonsense'.
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What a load of nonsense, if that were true Man City would never buy anybody, they would just get the best kids and build a team.
Any player that comes through our academy and has a professional career is a success. The vast majority of academy players do not.
Did I say your initial post was "a load of old nonsense"? No, I just replied giving an alternative viewpoint. It's a pity that you have to resort to abuse.
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Did I say your initial post was "a load of old nonsense"? No, I just replied giving an alternative viewpoint. It's a pity that you have to resort to abuse.
Fair point mate, I meant no offence and should have put it differently. Apologies.
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For our academy to be successful first we need to be producing player's on a regular basis that get into first team. Second any promising youngsters need to be persuade not to jump ship at first sign of interest from clubs with deeper pockets, just stick a few photos of Sinclair. Yanda and izzy with where are they now? Third transition to first team for potential should not be long winded or you can stick another few posters of Leko, Field and Harper with caption never given the chance. Saido is our only real success story came through youth setup impressed went out on loan and impressed again was introduced to first team and cemented a regular spot in first 11 plus club made money on his transfer.
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It is if you see the purpose of the Academy as being to produce players of League 1 or League 2 standard. To my mind, unless players are regularly produced who become fixtures in our first team, the Academy is failing.
Quite right Worcester although I doubt if any academy in the country expects to produce that many of potential first team Premier League standard each year but at least one or maybe two.
The problem is that once they become good enough they are poached by bigger clubs as was the case of Izzy Brown and Ferguson where the time and money spent on them was effectively lost.
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Harper has had 4 years in and around our first team and has not manged to nail down a place. On his latest loan at Blues he remained inconsistent, so on that basis he is still not ready for Championship football (and we want to win it). His contract situation would have required us to extend it soon, so for me we had no choice but to cash in and move on.
I'm sure Morrison as part of our coaching staff would have been consulted by Allardyce and Dowling about his capability, yet one let him go out on loan and the second engineered the move to Ipswich.
On the academy, I think its doing OK, but only OK. I'm sure having the players represent England at multiple age groups is not helping. I imagine its a pampered, cosy environment with agents buzzing around everywhere. Before they know it the lads think they've 'made it' before they've achieved anything. I would partner with a couple of Walsall like teams and send 5 or 6 out every season to face lower league professionals. That will teach them about the real world and accelerate their progress...or show that they aren't mentally tough enough to succeed. Perhaps we could take a gamble on only one per season where the stand out player gets a 4 year contract to try and avoid the vultures (as they have done with Richards).
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Sad to see him go, one I think we may well come to regret.
Would have liked to at least give him a few weeks pre-season under Ismael so a proper assessment could have been made by the new coaching staff, but maybe we felt it wasn't fair to hold the deal up. Also assume that we are very confident of Mowatt and other CM targets given the lack of depth there.
Good luck, Rekeem!
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Good deal all round. He’s never done it at the Albion and he’s had enough chances. He can’t impose himself in games. He looks decidedly average in the championship and I hope the step down improves him and he goes on to have a great career. Albion have made the right choice though, he’d have made the bench for us at best this season, what’s more if we’d been struggling in a game not one person in the ground would be sitting there thinking ‘oh well at least we’ve got Harper to come on’. Best of luck to him though.
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Fair point mate, I meant no offence and should have put it differently. Apologies.
Thanks, no worries.
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I agree that, for some Academy players, getting a good fee for them when we sell them is useful as it helps to fund the Academy. However, that's not going to be the case when they're going to lower league teams. For example, reports suggest that we're getting about £500k for Harper with possibly some more to come down the line. On the other hand, he's been a member of the first team squad for more than 3 seasons - even if he's only on £10k a week now, he would have received more than £1m in wages in just 2 seasons. On that basis, plus taking into account what it cost before that to develop him at the Academy, we've clearly lost money on him.
Developing players who are only good enough for League 1 at best and also losing money on them in the process can't be regarded as a success in my book. If some come through who are really good, so that they more than offset other Academy players being less successful, would make it more acceptable, but that's not happening is it?
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I agree that, for some Academy players, getting a good fee for them when we sell them is useful as it helps to fund the Academy. However, that's not going to be the case when they're going to lower league teams. For example, reports suggest that we're getting about £500k for Harper with possibly some more to come down the line. On the other hand, he's been a member of the first team squad for more than 3 seasons - even if he's only on £10k a week now, he would have received more than £1m in wages in just 2 seasons. On that basis, plus taking into account what it cost before that to develop him at the Academy, we've clearly lost money on him.
Developing players who are only good enough for League 1 at best and also losing money on them in the process can't be regarded as a success in my book. If some come through who are really good, so that they more than offset other Academy players being less successful, would make it more acceptable, but that's not happening is it?
It's difficult to evaluate obviously but if you add up the money for Berahino, Thorne, Roofe, Wood, Roberts, Morgan Rogers, Ferguson (eventually) it's a fair amount. Also O'Shea is now a regular member of the team/match day squad so that saves on a player coming in. If Field, Harper, Edwards hadn't been around for squad cover (that's why they weren't out on loan) in the past 3 - 4 years we'd have needed to bring others in. Then you have to say what value did Berahino's spell in the first team bring...and Harpers back heel for Livermore's late goal at QPR for that matter.
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I get the feeling this episode is being used by some to argue for the scrapping of the Academy, which I think would be a big mistake. That means, you are completly at the mercy of the transfer market. How much would a decent midfielder cost in today's market? Considerably more than than the one million Harper is supposed to be costing (although I think Harper is being undervalued).
Fact is, we can't as a club afford to be paying out transfer fees for our entire first team squad. The Academy, with good competent coaches, gives us a pool of players to draw from, mainly with local roots. Obviously many will not make the grade, but others will, even if its just the matchday bench. A proper football club has roots in the local community. Its not just an elite group of players who turn up as a kind of franchise on matchdays.
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Any academy sabotaged by Dowling
Was it though Frank? Dowling tried to introduce some structure and discipline into the set up. Some long standing employees in cushy positions didn't like it and went elsewhere. Not sure that it is down to Dowling to produce 'oven ready' championship players and I did not notice any disruption during this turbulent period.
Some people got too comfortable and Dowling pulled the rug basically.......
WorcsWBA makes a valid point, if all it is producing players of L2 / L1 standard then isn't it failing?
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I get the feeling this episode is being used by some to argue for the scrapping of the Academy, which I think would be a big mistake. That means, you are completly at the mercy of the transfer market. How much would a decent midfielder cost in today's market? Considerably more than than the one million Harper is supposed to be costing (although I think Harper is being undervalued).
Fact is, we can't as a club afford to be paying out transfer fees for our entire first team squad. The Academy, with good competent coaches, gives us a pool of players to draw from, mainly with local roots. Obviously many will not make the grade, but others will, even if its just the matchday bench. A proper football club has roots in the local community. Its not just an elite group of players who turn up as a kind of franchise on matchdays.
I agree with the sentiment but would say that competent coaching isn't good enough to be a success you need excellent coaches, it's a competitive environment and competent coaching will only yield competent players, ?what we need is more than merely competent
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I get the feeling this episode is being used by some to argue for the scrapping of the Academy, which I think would be a big mistake.
I'm not advocating scrapping it, just that I think it needs to do better to justify its continuing existence.