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West Bromwich Albion FC Forums => West Bromwich Albion FC => Topic started by: BaggieBrainy on March 29, 2014, 05:08:30 PM
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Its as simple as the title says does anyone else think different?
I watched the cardiff game today and I thought apart from the first 20 minutes we were poor the whole game, we then had a lucky break and got to 3-2 with seconds to hold it and berahino
decides instead of running it into the corner, and waiting for the whistle he will deliver a terrible ball into cardiffs feet for them to go and grab the equaliser, this is not the team i fell in love with.
The players at our club currently are full of ego and think there too good to go down.
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S*** happens!! Deal with it. We're not down yet, and there'll be many more twists and turns.
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The lad made a mistake in the heat of the moment.
There are more famous clubs where things like that never happen and that never go down -- just letting you know.
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It's incredibly hard to take in the heat of the moment after such a gutting result, but the big picture is even more depressing. Swansea and Palace winning is arguably more of a kick in the teeth than anything that happened at the Hawthorns this afternoon.
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The club needs sorting out it is full of losers - i.e. people who don't have killer instinct and a natural winning mentality.
Pepe Mel has been in charge long enough to instill some discipline into the squad, clearly given that we today showed the same naivety and stupidity as we did at Chelsea, he has not done that. I don't see where we are moving forward at all there isn't even the slightest glimmer that we are.
Mel needs to go and so do a good number of the players on our books. They need replacing with "winners". At the moment the club looks soft all the way through it.
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I've been of the view for a while that we will stay up solely because there are 3 worse teams than us. Fulham, Cardiff and, er, hopefully Sunderland. Our game against them is absolutely massive.
I don't think Norwich will get more than another 1 or 2 points. Finish above them and we will be ok. 7 points needed in my view.
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If you cannot beat the sides around you then you are always going to struggle. If you cannot hold onto a winning position (especially when it's 2-0!) then you are always going to struggle. If you cannot do the basics appropriately then you're going to struggle.
We cannot do any of the three things above. Yet again, against a poor side we've found ourselves 2-0 up and somehow managed to throw a game which we should have taken to the cleaners. Cardiff are nothing special, it is just testament to how abject we are at doing the basics, amply demonstrated by Saido Berahino not using his brain in the dying seconds - I'm 19, never played a professional game of football in my life but even I knew to take the ball into the corner and waste as much time as possible.
Let's not make excuses about refereeing decisions that have gone against us. We're not good enough. It is shown by the amount of games we've won and the amount of points we have on the board. We have a squad over inflated egos, in addition to them being a bunch of spineless tossers. Wonderful combination, eh?
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Wtf was Berahino doing? It's nothing to do with age or inexperience, a child would know what to do there it's inexcusable.
Mel's management isn't good enough, we can't defend set pieces which is a pretty MASSIVE part of football. It's like Mowbray all over again, nice football but if you get the basics wrong that's it.
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its really hard living thousands of miles away ( in India) and seeing the season unfolding as it is...i have just watched a passionate and pacy Palace make Chelsea look like rubbish....i have just seen England losing in the T20 by 3 runs to South Africa and have just been victim to the usual Baggies roller-coaster, celebrating on 92 minutes and being devastated i minute later.
But in all fairness we have all seen this coming for many months and we are precisely where we should be ,in fact its a miracle we are not in the relegation zone yet....
We have been a shambles of a club for months with internal politicking, poor transfer decisions , including the imbecilic selling of our only goal scorer to fellow strugglers a few weeks ago as the ultimate turd in the water pipe.
The latest fiasco at home to the appalling Cardiff sums it all up.....the fat lady has not sung yet but shes back stage rehearsing......the only chance we have got is that Norwich will carry on being crappier than us.....and their fat lady throws us a lifeline!
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Just post match anger. Look at the table, one win against West Ham, Norwich, Sunderland and our position looks even better. I have said 2 wins and 2 draws from our remaining games is enough to survive. We hit one of those draws today and were unfortunate to not get three points.
Calm down people, there's plenty of football left and at LEAST three teams who are going to struggle as much as us. If we were in the bottom three now then yes we may have to worry, but as it stands have faith.
We have been bottom of the table at the start of the second half of the last game of the season and we had faith, let's not get carried away. This was a far better result for us than Cardiff, if the game didn't explode in the way it did at the end emotions wouldn't be so bitter now.
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We played some good football today , 3 nice goals yet the basics have undone us again .
Our inability to put two halves together will see us down too .....gutted and to be honest i wish this season was over .
Our set pieces both defending and attacking are poor now . A Sunderland win on Monday night and a beating from Norwich on Saturday (their home form and defending is great of late) will be the end of us Imo.
Every mistake we make seems to get punished.
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Just post match anger. Look at the table, one win against West Ham, Norwich, Sunderland and our position looks even better. I have said 2 wins and 2 draws from our remaining games is enough to survive. We hit one of those draws today and were unfortunate to not get three points.
Calm down people, there's plenty of football left and at LEAST three teams who are going to struggle as much as us. If we were in the bottom three now then yes we may have to worry, but as it stands have faith.
We have been bottom of the table at the start of the second half of the last game of the season and we had faith, let's not get carried away. This was a far better result for us than Cardiff, if the game didn't explode in the way it did at the end emotions wouldn't be so bitter now.
Lol and where are these 2 wins coming from?
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Its as simple as the title says does anyone else think different?
"....., this is not the team i fell in love with......"
It's not the team I fell in love with either but we've been through a lot of changes since Big Ron was in charge.....!!!
I don't believe we will go down; I could be wrong but I think we will scrape it. Pepe needs a good pre-season and money needs to be spent in the right place, we all know what they are.
We have a good squad in many respects and I think they are beginning to show a bit more fight at long last.
Next week's Norwich game could really give us a major boost; on goal diff alone we would be above them with a game in hand to boot.
I say this time and time again when people say our form has been horrible since December 2012 - that's exactly when Odemwhinge started giving us off-stage hassle and ever since then we have been beset by dramas outside the game itself. I think it is bound to create instability. A few players attitudes - plus some bad buying and selling (particularly in not getting Rom even at a high price) are our real problem, not a lack of talent.
Fingers crossed PM's side will do enough to beat the drop this time. We need to buy, absolutely no doubt, and we need to wield the scythe here and there.
Actually come to think of it, to a large extent this IS the team I fell in love with and it always will be.
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The club and the fans did their bit today. Jp And the players f***** it up. Yes we are going down
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Just can't see how we can survive now. Us fans gave them everything today and if you can't beat a poor Cardiff side at home having scored 3 goals then who can you beat?
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The club and the fans did their bit today. Jp And the players f***** it up. Yes we are going down
What did JP do today to **** it up?
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Just can't see how we can survive now. Us fans gave them everything today and if you can't beat a poor Cardiff side at home having scored 3 goals then who can you beat?
Exactly, it's not as simple as 'just getting a few wins' when you don't look like winning a game in a million years.
The players heart's aren't in it, and the manager isn't good enough imo
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Exactly, it's not as simple as 'just getting a few wins' when you don't look like winning a game in a million years.
The players heart's aren't in it, and the manager isn't good enough imo
Hard to tell with the lot out on the pitch being so poor, even Pepe must be flabbergasted much of the time. Somehow I don't think what we are seeing now is Pepe Mel football, it is what this squad is cabable of, it is simply too unbalanced and erratic. No manager can build a solid defensive unit from this lot, no manager can build an offensive team from this lot. We simply have to survive this season, tear this squad up and build again.
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Lol and where are these 2 wins coming from?
What is the point of being so negative about every situation? There is nothing I can pose to you that you would be satisfied about.
2 weeks ago we beat Swansea away, something that seemed impossible given the situation. Now we draw to Cardiff everyone is instantly on the 'going down' wagon again.
I'm not going to speculate about where we can win because when it comes down to it anything can happen in the final 7 games. I just find absolutely nothing constructive to come from spouting off about how pooh we are and that we're going down just because we conceded late today.
Palace beat Chelsea today after playing well at Newcastle and losing with the last kick of the game - all we need is a little luck and to match the results of those below us - win lose or draw.
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Palace beat Chelsea today by grinding out a 1v0 win. Can you honestly see us doing that under this management and with this set of players? We look like conceding goals for fun at the moment. If we cannot win from the position we put ourselves in today (not once but twice!) then I just can't see where these wins are coming from. Cardiff coming back from 2v0 down today just felt so ineveitable. Teams conceding at the rate we are at present don't tend to stay up.
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What is the point of being so negative about every situation? There is nothing I can pose to you that you would be satisfied about.
2 weeks ago we beat Swansea away, something that seemed impossible given the situation. Now we draw to Cardiff everyone is instantly on the 'going down' wagon again.
I'm not going to speculate about where we can win because when it comes down to it anything can happen in the final 7 games. I just find absolutely nothing constructive to come from spouting off about how pooh we are and that we're going down just because we conceded late today.
Palace beat Chelsea today after playing well at Newcastle and losing with the last kick of the game - all we need is a little luck and to match the results of those below us - win lose or draw.
I can understand your "positivity" because if nobody is positive going into the final few games the club might as well give up now. Nobody wants to see that obviously. Yes there is still a chance that we can survive. There are 21 points to play for, get enough and we stay up, simple.
However, realistically, I cannot see it happening, you cannot keep snatching defeats and / or draws from almost certain victory. Chelsea, Villa twice and now today. We don't even look like like we are imprving in any way, shape or form, it is not about knee-jerk reactions or any one result it is a culmination of everything we've seen for a season and a half. Things have to change.
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I have been of the opinion that we would stay up purely because there are 3 x teams worse than us but now i am not so sure.
We have had so many opportunities to kick on and start to build on a decent situation and we keep messing it up and i cant help but think eventually you run out of those chances and it will haunt us.
Pepe has to take some of the blame but the majority i still feel lies with the players, they have put in performances and results against Everton, Liverpool, Chelsea, Swansea away and yet the next game we just go to bits with performances and results against Villa, Palace, Fulham, Hull and now today, i imagine it must be very frustrating for Pepe as he must think after each positive we can build, but we dont, we go back again.
We dont seem to have any bottle and cant perform under pressure (swansea away excepted) we do okay against the sides we arent expected to but struggle against those we would hope too, today we were 2-0 up in 10 x minutes against 2nd from bottom, in what both sides have built up as a huge game all week, you would think Cardiff would of been on their knees, and what a platform for us to build on, yet soon as they scored i think most people knew they would equalise, sure enough they did, but even then we scored in injury time and that should of been another platform, a massive win, but we somehow messed it up again and i just eventually this will now cost us.
Today would of felt like a defeat for our players, yet for Cardiff it was probably like a win and for the pyschological blow it was to us, what a boost for them to kick on. My concern is we dont have any redeeming quality, we dont create or score much (today the exception), we concede goals every game, we arent organised and we arent out and out attack and we seem to have no bottle and a poor mentality and it summed that up today.
When you look at some of the rubbish at the bottom, Fulham, Cardiff, Villa, Norwich, Hull, Swansea, Palace, Sunderland, West Ham, Stoke although we still have some of those to play, reality is we have only beaten Swansea, Palace and Sunderland and i think if we played the latter two again i dont think we would.
One of the only positives is that the season is exciting in a perverse way and at least each game means something but i just think we are blowing too many chances to get momentum and it cant carry on.
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Look at the players we had out today, we will have a much better idea after next week.
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Palace beat Chelsea today by grinding out a 1v0 win. Can you honestly see us doing that under this management and with this set of players? We look like conceding goals for fun at the moment. If we cannot win from the position we put ourselves in today (not once but twice!) then I just can't see where these wins are coming from. Cardiff coming back from 2v0 down today just felt so ineveitable. Teams conceding at the rate we are at present don't tend to stay up.
Clarke tried to 'grind out wins' and we were a complete mess. It's the players but the rot started under Clarke. Pepe Mel and the club management has a huge job turning this around, they must find fresh players and ideas and do a complete rebuild.
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Look at the players we had out today, we will have a much better idea after next week.
That is all well and good but the players on the pitch today are more than good enough to see out a victory against a very poor Cardiff side. The fact is, like has happened before, even with our better players on the pitch, we've once again thrown away a winning position and today, inexcusably it happened twice.
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That is all well and good but the players on the pitch today are more than good enough to see out a victory against a very poor Cardiff side. The fact is, like has happened before, even with our better players on the pitch, we've once again thrown away a winning position and today, inexcusably it happened twice.
Cardiff are not a poor side, they are a team getting to grips with the Premiership who have spent a lot of money on some decent players.
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Clarke tried to 'grind out wins' and we were a complete mess. It's the players but the rot started under Clarke. Pepe Mel and the club management has a huge job turning this around, they must find fresh players and ideas and do a complete rebuild.
I agree it wasn't working towards the end of Clarke's reign, however Mel has taken us too far the other way. The focus on good defending appears to have been completely stripped out of us. Our set piece defending is a shambles and at times, we are so easy to play through from open play. Not really the qualities you'd hope for from a team scrapping against relegation.
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Cardiff are not a poor side, they are a team getting to grips with the Premiership who have spent a lot of money on some decent players.
But they're a team we need to finish above if we are to have ANY hope of staying up. Throwing away a 2v0 lead at home to a team in the bottom 3 is absolutely criminal. Throwing away the lead in the last 10 seconds having just scored your self is absolutely ridiculous.
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Cardiff are not a poor side, they are a team getting to grips with the Premiership who have spent a lot of money on some decent players.
If they're a team getting to grips with the Premier League then it is even more embarrassing that we couldn't hold onto a 2-0 lead, nor a 3-2 lead with less than a minute remaining. They have spent a lot of money, you're quite right, but they have only won 6 games all season, conceded over 60 goals, the second highest in the league and the reason for that is because they are a poor side.
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I'm clinging to the fact I think we have 3 "winnable" games left, Norwich, west ham and stoke.. IF we win those we'll stay up.. Anything from spurs, arsenal and city would be a bonus
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I hope that, whatever happens next season, when we clear out the negative players, we can do the same with the likewise fans.
Because I think they can have a pretty detrimental effect too.
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Because I think they can have a pretty detrimental effect too.
Can't use that as an excuse - fans were terrific today - the best we've been at The Hawthorns for a long time.
Still, even with the backing they received today, they couldn't do the job required.
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On the way home I thought we were pretty much gone the Palace result was a real kick in the bollox. However we are not dead yet but each opportunity we spurn brings us closer to the point where there will be no way back. Beat Norwich and we go ahead of them and as many pundits have pointed out their run-in is truly horrible. The point won't save Cardiff and I think Fulham are too far gone it is just a question as to whether or not we can scrape together the points to finish ahead of Sunderland Palace or Norwich.
Still very down about the result and the performance particularly after we started so brightly.
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The reality is we have to get a win on the board in the next 2 games against Norwich (A) or Spurs (H). We know that Man C (A) is a nil pointer.
I just feel 2 points or less from these 3 games won't suffice. I can see Sunderland beating West Ham at home on Monday night.
Let's hope we can get some of the sidelined players back for these games. We had some key players out today.
If we can win at Swansea then we sure can win at Norwich. Let's stay positive until the last kick of the season.
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If anyone thinks that playing the way we did today, especially second half, is going to keep us up you must be on another planet, against a pretty average Cardiff side.
Our ball retention in midfield is non existent, and with the exception of Dorrans and Mulumbu who covered so much ground today to make up for the other non events playing there, nothing else was going on.
Our inability to see out games at this level will cost us our premier league place, professional players should not need coaching in how to do this.
On a positive the atmosphere today was great, keep playing the Liquidator!!!
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Hard to tell with the lot out on the pitch being so poor, even Pepe must be flabbergasted much of the time. Somehow I don't think what we are seeing now is Pepe Mel football, it is what this squad is cabable of, it is simply too unbalanced and erratic. No manager can build a solid defensive unit from this lot, no manager can build an offensive team from this lot. We simply have to survive this season, tear this squad up and build again.
I'm sure the likes of Hodgson or Pulis would. We've chosen the wrong type of manager for the job in hand. Mel isn't good enough IMO. The board have to take full responsibility for this.
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Totally speechless for an hour after the final whistle, then too angry to speak for another hour after that!
I have seen some unbelievable moments watching the Albion over the years but that was a shocking, shocking end to a game that we had just gone and won!
I still think that we will just about stay up though, not sure exactly how at the moment but we have been in far, far worse situations with far, far poorer squads.
This is still the same squad that has competed (and maybe over achieved) in the PL for the last 2-3 seasons, and unlike in earlier seasons, this squad is still capable of producing results even if we go behind in games.
There are still 6 teams in serious trouble at the bottom and we are all struggling to get those all important wins.
We are still sitting outside the bottom three and I would be surprised if the three teams below us and the two teams just above us will win more than 3 of their remaining games this season.
It’s going to be tough to survive, but to write us off already, and claim that we are already down is a tad premature in my view.
Do you not remember the Great Escape?
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It will be a straight shoot out between ourselves and Sunderland for that final position in my opinion. I think Fulham and Cardiff will drop - Cardiff won't be given presents like they were today every week. Furthemore, I can see Palace grinding out results from somewhere. They are hard to beat and Pulis has drilled them into an organised outfit and one that I believe will stay up. We could drag Norwich into it next week but I can't see us beating them and despite their horrid run of fixtures I think they have probably done enough.
As for ourselves and Sunderland. We're both poor teams who are struggling to win football matches. The game in May is going to be absolutely vital - a massive test of who can hold their bottle.
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It will be a straight shoot out between ourselves and Sunderland for that final position in my opinion. I think Fulham and Cardiff will drop - Cardiff won't be given presents like they were today every week. Furthemore, I can see Palace grinding out results from somewhere. They are hard to beat and Pulis has drilled them into an organised outfit and one that I believe will stay up. We could drag Norwich into it next week but I can't see us beating them and despite their horrid run of fixtures I think they have probably done enough.
As for ourselves and Sunderland. We're both poor teams who are struggling to win football matches. The game in May is going to be absolutely vital - a massive test of who can hold their bottle.
Agreed, will feel a bit better if west ham win on monday has to be said.
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Today's result will be even sorer if Sunderland beat West Ham. Today was a chance to put some daylight between ourselves and the bottom three and we've failed to take it - if anything, today's result will serve as a massive boost for Sunderland.
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It will be a straight shoot out between ourselves and Sunderland for that final position in my opinion. I think Fulham and Cardiff will drop - Cardiff won't be given presents like they were today every week. Furthemore, I can see Palace grinding out results from somewhere. They are hard to beat and Pulis has drilled them into an organised outfit and one that I believe will stay up. We could drag Norwich into it next week but I can't see us beating them and despite their horrid run of fixtures I think they have probably done enough.
As for ourselves and Sunderland. We're both poor teams who are struggling to win football matches. The game in May is going to be absolutely vital - a massive test of who can hold their bottle.
I'm glad someone has brought this up!
We have shown no bottle. We bottled it today, we bottled it against villa, twice.
We have a team of bottlers.
If it goes down to that game against sunderland I know who my money is on and it certainly isn't us.
For the record I can see us going into the stoke game needing a win and I don't think we'll get it and odemwonga may get his wish of relegating us by scoring the winning goal.
Would just sum our last two years up nicely.
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I'm glad someone has brought this up!
We have shown no bottle. We bottled it today, we bottled it against villa, twice.
We have a team of bottlers.
If it goes down to that game against sunderland I know who my money is on and it certainly isn't us.
For the record I can see us going into the stoke game needing a win and I don't think we'll get it and odemwonga may get his wish of relegating us by scoring the winning goal.
Would just sum our last two years up nicely.
That Stoke game is looking very ominous at the moment but hopefully it won't be an all or nothing game.
We are all in the same boat at the minute - interesting that us and Palace are the bottom 6 "form" teams with only 2 defeats in the last five games, Norwich, Cardiff and Fulham have lost 3 and Sunderland have lost 4 (and failed to win)!
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Gmac looked injured today and I think Reid is also carrying an injury. 2 fit players and we might just have won
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One thing I will say though is that this side needs to discover a backbone and a bit of dirty side too. We're far too nice in my opinion. The backbone is obvious, we cannot hold onto leads and if we're going to change that then players need to start stepping up to the plate. Secondly, we are far too nice. I don't know about anybody else and I know it may be sporting, but why are we kicking the ball out of play whenever their players hit the deck? Let's discover a nasty side and play on and force the referee to make a decision. You didn't see Cardiff doing the same, in-fact, instead of kicking the ball back to our keeper they ballooned it out for a throw in and squeezed us in their half. Granted, it wasn't sporting, but it was a nasty streak we've yet to see from our side.
Likewise, whenever an opposition player hits the ground, our players are too focused on picking them up instead of watching the game - Mulumbu needs to be pulled aside and told that his biggest worry is what's happening in-front of him and not some opposition player who is sitting on the floor. All this picking up the opposition and shaking their hands every five minutes is doing my nuts in.
Discover a backbone, discover a nasty side and get some bloody wins.
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Cards on the table, I have bet on us to be relegated at 4-1, I stand to win £400 if we are, but, tonight, despite the result, I see some positives.
We did not lose.
A refreshed Olsson will be back next week.
Anichebe should be fit.
The form of Dorrans.
Jones and Yacob may also be back.
So some key players back for the run in, we can hardly moan at the players for lack of belief when we are so gutless ourselves.
Give it our all until the end, if we are relegated, live with it.
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What is the point of being so negative about every situation? There is nothing I can pose to you that you would be satisfied about.
2 weeks ago we beat Swansea away, something that seemed impossible given the situation. Now we draw to Cardiff everyone is instantly on the 'going down' wagon again.
I'm not going to speculate about where we can win because when it comes down to it anything can happen in the final 7 games. I just find absolutely nothing constructive to come from spouting off about how pooh we are and that we're going down just because we conceded late today.
Palace beat Chelsea today after playing well at Newcastle and losing with the last kick of the game - all we need is a little luck and to match the results of those below us - win lose or draw.
Yes its a negative reaction because most of our football has been negative since we gave a 2-0 lead away at reading in dec 2012 yes we have won a few games since then but in all reality this team is well past its best . Just remember most of our points last season were got before Christmas and we have been on a slippy downward slide ever since. So what do we do miss out on our only real chance in letting Lukaku go to Everton let Odimwingieeeeeeee go and sell Long to 1 of our rivals? to me that's not the best thing to do when its obvious were struggling up top and have been all season.
I pay good money to watch my beloved Baggies and it hurts like hell when I witness games like today ..............but lets be honest did we deserve to win today ? after the first 20 mins we went backwards and eventually Cardiff got the upper hand and we started to struggle.
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What is the point of being so negative about every situation? There is nothing I can pose to you that you would be satisfied about.
2 weeks ago we beat Swansea away, something that seemed impossible given the situation. Now we draw to Cardiff everyone is instantly on the 'going down' wagon again.
I'm not going to speculate about where we can win because when it comes down to it anything can happen in the final 7 games. I just find absolutely nothing constructive to come from spouting off about how pooh we are and that we're going down just because we conceded late today.
Palace beat Chelsea today after playing well at Newcastle and losing with the last kick of the game - all we need is a little luck and to match the results of those below us - win lose or draw.
Yes its a negative reaction because most of our football has been negative since we gave a 2-0 lead away at reading in dec 2012 yes we have won a few games since then but in all reality this team is well past its best . Just remember most of our points last season were got before Christmas and we have been on a slippy downward slide ever since. So what do we do miss out on our only real chance in letting Lukaku go to Everton let Odimwingieeeeeeee go and sell Long to 1 of our rivals? to me that's not the best thing to do when its obvious were struggling up top and have been all season.
I pay good money to watch my beloved Baggies and it hurts like hell when I witness games like today ..............but lets be honest did we deserve to win today ? after the first 20 mins we went backwards and eventually Cardiff got the upper hand and we started to struggle.
Good post, are we in the sh!te, yes, can we get out of it, yes, there are signs of improvement, at least we are playing in the opposition box at times, stick together and support the team.
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Cards on the table, I have bet on us to be relegated at 4-1, I stand to win £400 if we are, but, tonight, despite the result, I see some positives.
We did not lose.
A refreshed Olsson will be back next week.
Anichebe should be fit.
The form of Dorrans.
Jones and Yacob may also be back.
So some key players back for the run in, we can hardly moan at the players for lack of belief when we are so gutless ourselves.
Give it our all until the end, if we are relegated, live with it.
Too right. I've been following footie long enough to know there's always a surprise just around the corner.
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Still remain confident that we will survive. As gutted as I am and will be over the next few days. For me looking at the table rationally I believe our goal difference may prove our saviour. It's gut wrenching to take today - believe me as a person who likes to remain positive - I was gutted. Players looked crestfallen.
Getting Jones back is imperative - Reid lacks zero mobility and in my opinion was to blame for goals one and two. His pass to Amalfitano was absolutely poor.
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Norwich and Spurs are both winnable and with Yacob and Jones hopefully back we can try and get 4 points from the next 2.Today was a big kick in the nuts but we felt the same against Palace in 05 and against West Ham when we bottled a 3-0 lead. Were 3 points above the zone and have better goal difference and a game in hand. We also play the likes of West Ham and Stoke who are most likely thinking of the beach. 2 wins would see us safe I think.
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Still remain confident that we will survive. As gutted as I am and will be over the next few days. For me looking at the table rationally I believe our goal difference may prove our saviour. It's gut wrenching to take today - believe me as a person who likes to remain positive - I was gutted. Players looked crestfallen.
Getting Jones back is imperative - Reid lacks zero mobility and in my opinion was to blame for goals one and two. His pass to Amalfitano was absolutely poor.
Reid also headed straight to their right back for their 3rd goal instead of clearing into touch. He was dire today. Goes without saying that we desperately need Jones back.
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Will some of you stop clutching at straws. That was the worst team we have played at the hawthorns this season. Utterly urine poor no excuses. Not good enough end off. See you all on the beach at Bournemouth next season.JP hang your head in shame for not replacing the closest thing we had in a striker January just gone >:(
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i thought after throwing a two goal lead away against villa twice it couldn't get any worse i was wrong . never mind berahnio not taking it into the corner he had two men to pass to and only one defender if he can't find a good pass from there give up. this was me and my daughters first home game of the season and i don't know if the front cover of the match programme as been the same all year but an arrow pointing down fortune telling or what
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To say 'we are going down' is a bit defeatist. If we were 6 points adrift at the bottom, okay, but we are not even in the bottom 3. However, it is going down to the wire, probably to the last day.
Today, it was criminal not to beat the poorest team I have seen this season at the Hawthorns. The Cardiff defenders looked really unsure in possession, but they were never put under sustained pressure. As for Berahino at the last, maybe he should have taken the ball to the corner flag. But as I recall it was 4 Albion forwards agianst one Cardiff defender. In a situation like that, it should have been easy to put one of our forwards through in front of goal. But he did the worst possible thing and passed it straight to the one Cardiff defender. Putting it down to inexperience, but that's being nice to Berahino.
Looking on the bright side, Olsson is available next week , and I'm hoping that Jones, Yacob and Brunt also.
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didn't think we would win today,glad we are playing away against Norwich and sunderland,we will beat Norwich olssen and jones back
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Well if you look at the up coming fixtures we may get 2 points. Will have to hope those below us will do no better. :D :'( :-[ Ah well not to wry hopefully the ticket prices will go down next season ::) but maybe not :-*.
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We were down to the bare bones of our squad today, not meaning to be disrespectful but we had straight out the academy players on the bench. Fulham and Cardiff for me are down (they couldn't even beat West Brom) and Sunderland were bottom at Christmas ;)
A couple of key players back before the end of the season and we will have the number of points required to stay up.... even if that is 7 draws!
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I'm liking this mentality, and hope that you guys are right, but we need to really take it to Norwich next week as I'm fearing a similar scenario to Hull away where we came unstuck. A loss there and we will be bottom 3 for sure, then its spurs and city to follow. Crucial therefore we at least get a point against Norwich, 3 would be very handy indeed.
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We were down to the bare bones of our squad today, not meaning to be disrespectful but we had straight out the academy players on the bench. Fulham and Cardiff for me are down (they couldn't even beat West Brom) and Sunderland were bottom at Christmas ;)
A couple of key players back before the end of the season and we will have the number of points required to stay up.... even if that is 7 draws!
and we know who to blame for that dont we
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Still remain confident that we will survive. As gutted as I am and will be over the next few days. For me looking at the table rationally I believe our goal difference may prove our saviour. It's gut wrenching to take today - believe me as a person who likes to remain positive - I was gutted. Players looked crestfallen.
Getting Jones back is imperative - Reid lacks zero mobility and in my opinion was to blame for goals one and two. His pass to Amalfitano was absolutely poor.
Still of the opinion that giving him another 1 year contract for whatever reason and with his injury record was a huge mistake by the club.
It seems that the players don't have the self-belief and desire to win games and finish teams off. Before I went to bed last night at 2-0 up, I just knew that they would throw the game away. I am starting to agree that Mel wasn't the right appointment in the predicament we are in and with the players at his disposal for the type of football he preaches.
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and we know who to blame for that dont we
Yes injuries and suspensions.
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OK, I've had time to calm down and well.... its par for the course. It's never dull being a Baggies fan. I could rant like most of you; and believe me I've had my share of that; but I'll take a deep breath and say" It's not over til the fat lady sings".
It looks a desperate situation right now, I'm not sure if we'll win again this season, but until we are bottom three with no chance of survival I will continue to believe we can survive.
That being said, God help us next season whichever division we're in!!!
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Bit of stats for you.
Since the Premiership inception, the lowest number of losses of teams relegated has been 15 in the first season of 1992-93 and in 2010-11. We are presently on 12 losses with 7 games to go with of course so many draws putting us in the predicament that we are in presently.
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I said at the end of last season it will be a make or brake summer for the Albion, and i think some of the reasons we are going to get relegated go back to the transfer dealings. Even saying that, at the start of the season i did not think we would get relegated, but to not strengthen in the right areas was unforgivable to the people who made those decisions. At the time i thought a new left back, a new right back and cover at centre half, although Ridgewell had his best game yesterday, that back line is just not good enough.
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I suppose four points from the last three games is ok. Next week is the one where we have to win and with Olsson back we will have a much better chance. With that starting 11 and some of the attacking players that Cardiff have I'm not surprised that they scored three times Yesterday.
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regardless what division we are in next season it is clear we need a major clear out.
we do not want to end up like the dingles before we realise this.
too much deadwood. players and staff that are part of the furniture at the club.
we need to seriously freshen things up. Am i the only one that can see this.
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Despite the obvious huge disappointment yesterday, having now calmed down, I'm actually feeling more optimistic than I was a few weeks ago.
However badly things go we somehow seem to always be outside the bottom 3 with the 3 clubs below us showing little sign of being capable of putting any kind of run of decent results together.
If anything I feel we are likely to survive almost by default, due to the ineptitude of those below us.
Certainly though a victory at Norwich would be priceless, it would drag Norwich back into it with very little likelihood of the teams presently below us getting good results.
But, despite the team putting us through the grinder and sending stress levels through the roof, I do believe we'll just about limp over the line, though the likelihood is it'll still be in the balance going into the last two matches.
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3 points at Norwich and 3 against West Ham a draw with Sundaland would keep us safe in my opinion. Those 3 games we have to target 7 points that would put us on 36 which won't be far off being safe this season.
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i think we have been very unlucky this season one way or another.i thought our lads worked hard yesterday and was up for it for a change even ridgewell played with more conviction.i think it hit them very hard when we conceded at the end and didnt think they deserved the boos at final whistle.if we are going to survive this season we as fans have to give them full support no matter what happens.norwich is now the next huge game and im sure we as fans will give 100% and be very loud again.keep the faith and forget this we are going down defeatist pooh....we are albion
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3 points at Norwich and 3 against West Ham a draw with Sundaland would keep us safe in my opinion. Those 3 games we have to target 7 points that would put us on 36 which won't be far off being safe this season.
Think we need to target the spurs game for points it will be less pressurised.
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i think we have been very unlucky this season one way or another.i thought our lads worked hard yesterday and was up for it for a change even ridgewell played with more conviction.i think it hit them very hard when we conceded at the end and didnt think they deserved the boos at final whistle.if we are going to survive this season we as fans have to give them full support no matter what happens.norwich is now the next huge game and im sure we as fans will give 100% and be very loud again.keep the faith and forget this we are going down defeatist pooh....we are albion
It doesn't matter if they work hard. If they've got the IQ of a baked potato (as demonstrated after our "winner"), then it's never going to end well. They deserved at least some stick for being utterly stupid.
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we do have some thick players i agree but theres 7 matches to go and we need all of our players to work hard in every game to try and get something out of it.booing helps no one.if you worked hard all day at work and at the end of the shift your manager tells you you are pooh how hard would you work the next day???
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Norwich, West Ham and Sunderland are the three big games I hope it doesn't go to the last day of the season. Spurs are also beatable too. After the Man Utd game I said that would be it, but I feel more positive about us staying up we have recently played 2 of the bottom 3 and in all honestly they are poorer than us.
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Yes injuries and suspensions.
Which happens every season of course, so it comes down to how good your backup players are, and we have either none or poor ones in too many positions. As the club makes it quite clear that transfer dealings are not the responsibility of the Head Coach, the fault for the holes in, and general poorness, of, our squad has to lie with members of the Board.
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Can't see us staying up due to lack of backbone, resilience when things go wrong and just being unprofessional. Mr Peace is reaping what he has been sowing and the gaffers at the very top of the club are hardly good role models for the players young or old.....just a shambles that I have noted national media are becoming more aware of....not just Lawrenson on match of the day but there was a very critical piece on 5 Live before kick off that was ripping the club to bits and it's leadership and direction. Shameful and only heading in one direction! See you next week at Carrow Rd.
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It's far from over yet. Norwich are eminently beatable and Spurs have faded badly of late. If we can get 4 points from those 2 games, things will be looking much healthier again. Regardless of the calamity at the end, remember it was a must-win game for Cardiff and they didn't win it. We'll have Olsson back next week and, hopefully, Yacob as well, so we should become more solid again. Anichebe might even be fit.
Ultimately though, it's going to come down to the players and how much each one of them, as an individual, wants it. Get in the way of crosses and shots properly, don't just hang a leg out and turn your back.
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Well done people.
As I said yesterday absolutely no need for panicked 'we're down' statements. We're still 3 points off the bottom three with a game in hand on Cardiff, beat Norwich and our position looks far more favourable.
There is disappointment after yesterday but the truth of the matter is that we were going to win that game in the 93rd minute apart from a very poor error of judgement from Berahino. No matter how we let the two goal advantage slip we still would have won that game had it not been for the final mistake.
We still have 7 games left of the season - Norwich, Spurs, City, Arsenal, Sunderland, West Ham, Stoke. To me that's really not a bad run in to the end of the season. With the exception of City and Arsenal there are the possibility of points at all of the other games. If Everton go and batter Fulham today I believe they are done for. That leaves two places to battle for - Does anyone really give Cardiff a shot? And to add to that Norwich have an absolutely horrific run in, if we can take three points there then I believe Norwich are really going to be in a hole.
For those who don't believe we can pull a result there just look at beating Swansea away - we can pick up points at Carrow Road.
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Everyone's gutted by yesterdays result, but if we had drawn 3-3 Swansea and beaten Cardiff 2-1 we would be in exactly the same position as we are now and we would all be feeling much more optimistic
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Everyone's gutted by yesterdays result, but if we had drawn 3-3 Swansea and beaten Cardiff 2-1 we would be in exactly the same position as we are now and we would all be feeling much more optimistic
Very good point.
We need 36 points, another 7 in total. It doesn't matter how we get them.
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That's Fulham as good as gone. No way will they get 12 pts from 6 games to get to 36. Cardiff would need 10 from 6 including Palace at home and Sunderland away. Unlikely. I think they are gone as well.
Sunderland have games in hand and let's hope they don't beat West Ham tomorrow. Our game against them and their game v Cardiff could be crucial.
Whilst winning our 6-pointers v Norwich and Sunderland would be massive, avoiding defeat is also crucial.
Squeaky bottom time.
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This team doesn't have it in it to get 2 or 3 more wins.
Norwich are excellent at home, they're abysmal away, though we did somehow manage to lose to them. If we can't beat the worst away sides in the division at home in Fulham and Cardiff, quite why any would expect us to go to Norwich next week and get 3 points is beyond me - frankly given our away form expecting a draw is bordering on delusional.
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Norwich are unbeaten in their last six games at home having recorded three wins and three draws, beating sides in mid-table and taking four points off Man City and Tottenham.
They have taken 24 points at home, picking up 6 wins and 6 draws to go along with their four defeats. They don't concede many either, only conceding 12 which is the 4th best in the division behind Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal. They don't score many either, they have only managed 15, the third worst in the division.
We've taken 12 points away from home this season picking up two wins to go alongside our six draws. We've scored 17 but conceded 26.
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Everyone's gutted by yesterdays result, but if we had drawn 3-3 Swansea and beaten Cardiff 2-1 we would be in exactly the same position as we are now and we would all be feeling much more optimistic
Cardiff would be on 25 and not 26, so our position would be stronger, but that's a fair point otherwise.
Having had a day to reflect on it I still feel we have a chance, but we have to turn these draws into wins.
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This team doesn't have it in it to get 2 or 3 more wins.
Norwich are excellent at home, they're abysmal away, though we did somehow manage to lose to them. If we can't beat the worst away sides in the division at home in Fulham and Cardiff, quite why any would expect us to go to Norwich next week and get 3 points is beyond me - frankly given our away form expecting a draw is bordering on delusional.
Lets just hope nerves get the better of Norwich
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I think anyone who saw yesterdays FIASCO knows deep down we are heading only 1 way !!
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This team doesn't have it in it to get 2 or 3 more wins.
Norwich are excellent at home, they're abysmal away, though we did somehow manage to lose to them. If we can't beat the worst away sides in the division at home in Fulham and Cardiff, quite why any would expect us to go to Norwich next week and get 3 points is beyond me - frankly given our away form expecting a draw is bordering on delusional.
Football is a funny game. I would have been surprised if we had gone and beaten Hull and Cardiff comfortably. It would not surprise me if we went and won 1-0 at Carrow Road. Norwich is a mid-low-table team which means that any game can go any way. Teams like us and Norwich simply aren't good enough to be consistently good.
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I think anyone who saw yesterdays FIASCO knows deep down we are heading only 1 way !!
24 hours on i don't think fiasco is the right phrase mate , generally we played well .
Saido made a poor mistake in imo 3-2 to us would have been about right , OGS admitted Mutch's was a fluky cross post match. I'm more upset with Caulkers goal for 2-2 getting the better of Gmac and Dawson , you can never say for certain but Olsson and Yacob could make a big difference.
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We are staying up
Boing Boing
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Not sure what to think in truth, each time we are let down I try to glean positives for the remaining games. The only plus point from yesterday is that we are still three points clear with fewer games left, although I do expect Sunderland to win tomorrow.
A lot depends on how the players react to that giveaway as to whether we can stay up. If they are up for a fight then we might just get the points. Fact is, we have been found wanting so many times that even the most ardent glass half full supporter will have doubts.
It's been a rubbish season and a half, so many poor decisions from the Chairman down to the sock fiasco, everyone has been at fault.
Stay up or go down, after Saturday I am seriously past caring, I will always have a season ticket so it is irrelevant what league we are in. All I want is for the club to go back to basics and start to feel like a positive place again.
All us fans have is the hope that Albion will start to perform and win again, but slowly over the last fifteen months, even the hope is disappearing.
A big thanks should go to the Chairman, the board, the players and the various coaches for constantly letting 20000 people down.
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Who would have thought Palace would beat Chelsea? We must be positive and believe we can stay up.
We were without 5 players and they will all return before the season end.
Cardiff and Fulham look buried so we only have to edge above one more team, which currently is Sunderland. Tomorrow night is a critical match.
Of course we can beat Norwich.
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If we were in the relegation zone i might agree we are going down but we aren't! Tomorrow's game between Sunderland and West Ham is a massive game and i would say they are the one team who will influence if we stay up or not as Cardiff and Fulham look gone!
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I agree it's down to us or Sunderland
Sunderland remaining fixtures
Sunderland vs West Ham
Tottenham vs Sunderland
Sunderland vs Everton
Man City vs Sunderland
Chelsea vs Sunderland
Sunderland vs Cardiff
Man Utd vs Sunderland
Sunderland vs WBA
Sunderland vs Swansea
Sunderland have got some tough games there. I think their only winnable games are West Ham, Cardiff, us and Swansea.
They have a habit of doing poorly at home especially under pressure. Can see them picking up 5 more points and us doing the same. It will come down to our match with them and the last day of season.
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its all ifs buts and maybes but after the weekends results I honestly believe 3 points yesterday would have kept us up. if Norwich beat us they are all but safe so I would look to play a really tight game and frustrate them. obviously a win for us would be massive. Cardiff play palace next week so its either palace being safe or Cardiff back in it and dragging palace back into it. if Cardiff don't win they are gone along with Fulham probabley leaving the last place between us,sunderland and maybe palace or Norwich depending on next weeks results.
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Yes we are.....
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Yes we are.....
Why be negative though?
We have 5 players to come back. It's a repeat of 04/05 for me, when we achieved only 6 wins and 16 draws with 3 poor teams below us.
Our current team is better than the 04/05 version.
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Why be negative though?
We have 5 players to come back. It's a repeat of 04/05 for me, when we achieved only 6 wins and 16 draws with 3 poor teams below us.
Our current team is better than the 04/05 version.
That may be so, but we had a team of battlers and a degree of momentum in the run in, neither of which we have this season.
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That may be so, but we had a team of battlers and a degree of momentum in the run in, neither of which we have this season.
The simple fact is if we beat Norwich on Saturday then we go above them!!! They then travel to Fulham with an appalling away record and the last 4 are all top sides.
Norwich are on 32, it's conceivable they only get 3 / 4 points from now on.
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The simple fact is if we beat Norwich on Saturday then we go above them!!! They then travel to Fulham with an appalling away record and the last 4 are all top sides.
Norwich are on 32, it's conceivable they only get 3 / 4 points from now on.
What you actually believe we can beat a team that is actually trying?
Our players are seemingly happy to be relegated and some seem to be actively try to make it happen...
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What you actually believe we can beat a team that is actually trying?
Our players are seemingly happy to be relegated and some seem to be actively try to make it happen...
What's done is done. We can't take your attitude as there's no point driving to Carrow Rd.
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What's done is done. We can't take your attitude as there's no point driving to Carrow Rd.
sorry, but up until Saturday, I thought like you and was positive about surviving....
but after watching that, I am no longer am prepared to ignore the tragedy that is unfolding
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Did torture myself just by watching yesterdays highlights and although i feel so angry and annoyed at what happened right at the end yesterday i think the bigger picture is that we are starting to get some confidence back up front, and that can only be good. What it takes now is some no nonsense defending, and hopefully hit our opposition hard on the counter. We need to cut out the stupid preventable goals and aim to keep a clean sheet as long as we humanly can. Yes, we are 17th, but if Sunderland lose/draw tomorrow, they are still 3 points behind us and with a tough bunch of fixtures coming their way we have to hope they get sucker punched in every single one of them. I don't care about those above us now(bar Norwich), we have to just hope the 3 below keep delivering rubbish so we can just survive. Then it's really make or break post season, as to whether we have another miserable season or actually rebuild a little bit in the summer. The Mel philosophy will still deeply worry me at the back but we will hopefully add some quality/youthful players and give us a better chance next season. Keep the faith, i think we'll just about do this! Put this darn awful season to bed.
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:D
Did torture myself just by watching yesterdays highlights and although i feel so angry and annoyed at what happened right at the end yesterday i think the bigger picture is that we are starting to get some confidence back up front, and that can only be good. What it takes now is some no nonsense defending, and hopefully hit our opposition hard on the counter. We need to cut out the stupid preventable goals and aim to keep a clean sheet as long as we humanly can. Yes, we are 17th, but if Sunderland lose/draw tomorrow, they are still 3 points behind us and with a tough bunch of fixtures coming their way we have to hope they get sucker punched in every single one of them. I don't care about those above us now(bar Norwich), we have to just hope the 3 below keep delivering rubbish so we can just survive. Then it's really make or break post season, as to whether we have another miserable season or actually rebuild a little bit in the summer. The Mel philosophy will still deeply worry me at the back but we will hopefully add some quality/youthful players and give us a better chance next season. Keep the faith, i think we'll just about do this! Put this darn awful season to bed.
:D Yeah and Fulham now probably occupy one of the three places after their loss to Everton.
We must also hope the top four perform when they play the " bottom "teams...except City when they play us. Don't think Spurs is such a scary fixture as their "wheels" have fallen off for the season.
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Fulham are still not down. They are improving under Magath and have the easiest fixture list of the threatened clubs remaining. We are coming to the point of the season where a few of the safe mid table teams will start to switch off as well so who knows where our rivals will take up bonus points.
This team doesn't win 'must win' games but can fluke an odd win here and there. Generally we play better against the 'better' teams like Tottenham. I can see something like
Norwich - draw
Tottenham - win
City - loss
West Ham - draw
Arsenal - loss
Sunderland - ?? toss a coin
Stoke - ?? Stoke will be decidedly on the beach but they are a bogey team so who knows.
We simply must win one of the Sunderland or Stoke games to be safe. This season will go to the final game unfortunately.
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I think we have to rely on 3 teams being worse than we are to stay up.
I do fear for us TBH.
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;D For those who missed THE GREAT ESCAPE...??? Stand by for a repeat performance on the last day...hope its a "fairy tale ending" for us ??
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Norwich is massive, biggest game of the season so far.We put them right in the poo if we win. Its an intimidating place with all them rattles and yellow tops though
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It's still in our hands, isn't it? No-one expected a win at Swansea, but we had the rub of the green that day. Given the absolute chaos at the club, the fact that we can still save ourselves gives me hope. It really is time for the senior pros like Olsson, back from a nice rest, to step up and get those 2 wins.
The mathematical permutations narrow dramatically as the games slip away, and we are still clear of the bottom 3, so come on everyone, let's get that dodgy pen we're due, or one in off someones shoulder. Boing boing.
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I'm sure the likes of Hodgson or Pulis would. We've chosen the wrong type of manager for the job in hand. Mel isn't good enough IMO. The board have to take full responsibility for this.
I think that the criteria that we put around the selection process was very restrictive and meant that we had a very limited choice. Head Coach - we had to find someone with a lack of ego to accept this title and not 'manager'. Available (or low fee) meant that we had to find someone who had failed somewhere else and therefore was not working or someone working at a lower level (with potential) with an insignificant fee. Someone who didn't want to bring their own team of coaches - OK there was, eventually, some compromise on this one - but this could be part of the problem in getting the team to understand Mel's strategies too - i.e. his coaches could have been more effective in getting his ideas over to the players. Can Downing and Kiely coach players on how to play the pressing game?
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I will be a lot more confident if we can get Olsson, Yacob, Anichebe and Jones back in the team. (And Statham too if he's match fit.)
If we'd had Olsson and Yacob available I don't think we'd have lost on Saturday. (<---I just typed that - that's how it felt anyway, we won that game twice and came away with 1 point!)
We've somehow managed to go from our biggest and strongest squad ever (beginning of September) which Steve Clarke thought we needed to get through our normal winter slump. Now - on saturday -
- we have no proven/experienced strikers
- we started with a number of players we'd have considered peripheral, reserves at the beginning of the season - Reid, Dawson, Dorrans, Vydra
- we had more peripheral, reserves on the bench - O'Neil, Roofe, Berahino, Theivy
The decision I couldn't understand on Saturday was bringing on Berahino for Amalfitano. We were winning at the time. Surely Gera would have been a better replacement on the right? Much more disciplined and useful for defending.
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I will be a lot more confident if we can get Olsson, Yacob, Anichebe and Jones back in the team. (And Statham too if he's match fit.)
If we'd had Olsson and Yacob available I don't think we'd have lost on Saturday. (<---I just typed that - that's how it felt anyway, we won that game twice and came away with 1 point!)
We've somehow managed to go from our biggest and strongest squad ever (beginning of September) which Steve Clarke thought we needed to get through our normal winter slump. Now - on saturday -
- we have no proven/experienced strikers
- we started with a number of players we'd have considered peripheral, reserves at the beginning of the season - Reid, Dawson, Dorrans, Vydra
- we had more peripheral, reserves on the bench - O'Neil, Roofe, Berahino, Theivy
The decision I couldn't understand on Saturday was bringing on Berahino for Amalfitano. We were winning at the time. Surely Gera would have been a better replacement on the right? Much more disciplined and useful for defending.
If Berahino hadn't come on would we have got the 3rd goal??
If's, But's and Maybe's....the problem lies in not holding onto the ball when we had the chance
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I'm not going to lie,I'm still really disappointed ,mad,sad, sick & all those other emotions after the Cardiff match, but coming from someone who is always negative, even my mates & family all call me B Negative. I'm trying to put the last 3 games & Norwich coming up in to perspective. Surly we are 1 point better off at this stage. Swansea away ( should of had nothing,usual Swansea match they batter us 1st halve. Should of been out of sight. ( bonus 3 points). Hull city, old players always haunt us, & long did.(0 points.) Cardiff, should win but didnt,Albion never win must win so called 6 pointers. ( 1 point.) Every season in the prem around this time of the season these sought of games always end in dramatic draws. So a point at Norwich wouldn't be too bad,3 bloody excerlent, as every Albion fan knows we are more likely to beat Spurs & West Ham, than Norwich? It keeps them in the pack with a really tough run in. We also have a better squad than previous relegation battles? Lets just all give the Albion are best support like Albion fans do best. We just have to believe that WBA can do it and stay up!
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.... Lets just all give the Albion are best support like Albion fans do best. We just have to believe that WBA can do it and stay up!
+1 COYB
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I am still trying to work out how the hell we are still not in the bottom three after the season we have had.
Our record in the premiership without Olson is awful, every time he is out we really struggle so that's a big plus if he is back and i think Jacob is our best player this season so it would be massive to have them both back.
How can we have left Dorrans out of the team for so long is absolutely mind blowing , he looked a very good player on Saturday and with a bit of luck ( for a change ) we just might get out of it.
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I am still trying to work out how the hell we are still not in the bottom three after the season we have had.
Our record in the premiership without Olson is awful, every time he is out we really struggle so that's a big plus if he is back and i think Jacob is our best player this season so it would be massive to have them both back.
How can we have left Dorrans out of the team for so long is absolutely mind blowing , he looked a very good player on Saturday and with a bit of luck ( for a change ) we just might get out of it.
Because, because, because, we have been pretty poor at times but i honestly believe we have been good too on occasion. Most of all, as it's been said, there some bloody awful teams alongside us.
I'm going to take a punt at 14th/15th, but would happily say 'I'm an idiot and know nothing' as long as we were 17th.
Agree with the Dorrans comment BTW.
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Handed yet another lifeline tonight with West Ham beat Blunderland !!
How many chances are we going to squander before we actually take advantage and put ourselves safe FFS!!!
Talk about taking the p*** !!!
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We would have been 6 points clear with cigar out!
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As annoying as Sat was at least we played probably the best we have under Mel so far attacking wise , to add to that we had several key / senior players missing.
Norwich is going to be a hard match , they will surely come out flying at us again but I'm hoping a refreshed Olsson will help us defend better . If we can field a near fit Yacob and maybe even Jones we have a bit more of a team to compete. Stopping Snodgrass is key to this and if we can come back with something it may well kick our season on.
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Well done West ham. Was listening on the radio about Nolan taking the ball to the corner flag during the final seconds to run down the clock. One thing you could have guarenteed with Big Sam teams!
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let's be honest folks, the only way we are beating the drop currently is by there being 3 worse teams than ourselves. Simple as really, and out of the bottom 3, cardiff look the most threatening to me, as they can score and have some winnable fixtures coming up... Thankfully west ham and everton have helped us this weekend, but we might not be as lucky in weekends to follow so we have to help ourselves, starting at norwich.
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let's be honest folks, the only way we are beating the drop currently is by there being 3 worse teams than ourselves. Simple as really, and out of the bottom 3, cardiff look the most threatening to me, as they can score and have some winnable fixtures coming up... Thankfully west ham and everton have helped us this weekend, but we might not be as lucky in weekends to follow so we have to help ourselves, starting at norwich.
So to recap
1. We need other teams to help us out because we are too pooh to win games.
2. We need to start winning to help us avoid the drop.
These two don't really mix do they. We all hope we will manage to survive but frankly and honestly it will be a bit of a miracle if we do.
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all our rival fans message boards say they are going down.We are all in the same boat
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Watching the Sunderland game last night and they looked very poor indeed. The form of Adam Johnson is only there really hope of staying up. Looking at their next four game I don't see them getting a win they could be as good as relegated by the time they play Cardiff.
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By the sounds of it anichebe is going to be back saturday and if we can get yacob,jones and brunt back fully fit for the west ham,sunderland and stoke games then i think we will just have enough. A draw saturday and beat west ham and stoke will be enough i think(36 pts)
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http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com/2014/03/26/for-the-beautiful-game-read-the-angry-game-why-the-constant-bickering-and-conflict/
I think this writer has it spot on. Nowadays, everything is always about anger in the game. Decisions, errors, losing games always seem to be the worst thing possible thing or a 'massive blow' of some sort.
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Lets just wait and see what attitude we have on Saturday
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I am quite amazed that it is still in our own hands at this point. With our form over the last year or so we should have been dead and buried by now.
All we can do is our part by trying to spur them on for the last few games and pray that it is enough to help them get the results we need.
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It's a credit to WBA that we've been able to weather this ridiculous season in which EVERYTHING has gone wrong and yet we're still about the relegation zone and we've still got it in our own hands. It shows how far we've come as a club for that to be the case these days.
If we can stay up this term, what is needed in the summer is plain for all to see and I have faith that we'll do it. JP needs to take charge again, he tried to leave a managment team in place and it's not worked at all.
We're scoring, which means a win is always likely at some point. 35 points and a good goal diff will keep someone up, I for one think it will be us.
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It's a credit to WBA that we've been able to weather this ridiculous season in which EVERYTHING has gone wrong and yet we're still about the relegation zone and we've still got it in our own hands. It shows how far we've come as a club for that to be the case these days.
If we can stay up this term, what is needed in the summer is plain for all to see and I have faith that we'll do it. JP needs to take charge again, he tried to leave a managment team in place and it's not worked at all.
We're scoring, which means a win is always likely at some point. 35 points and a good goal diff will keep someone up, I for one think it will be us.
It also shows how quickly good work can be undone
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This team doesn't have it in it to get 2 or 3 more wins.
Norwich are excellent at home, they're abysmal away, though we did somehow manage to lose to them. If we can't beat the worst away sides in the division at home in Fulham and Cardiff, quite why any would expect us to go to Norwich next week and get 3 points is beyond me - frankly given our away form expecting a draw is bordering on delusional.
It's a good job football isn't played on paper.
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Ah queue the "hindsight" merchants who themselves were nowhere to be seen as recent as 1 week ago !!
I thought we would go down but am I not ALLOWED to change my mind or be wrong. God its like the gestapo but worse !!
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Our destiny has never been out of hands and yesterday was a step forward but we are not safe yet it will not count for anything if we do not follow it up with a least another couple of wins. We might not get one of them against Spurs but a performance is required
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Ah queue the "hindsight" merchants who themselves were nowhere to be seen as recent as 1 week ago !!
I thought we would go down but am I not ALLOWED to change my mind or be wrong. God its like the gestapo but worse !!
Cardiff away I came out of the ground and thought thats it we're down. Clarke got the sack and it made me rethink with a bit of hope. Then came out after Cardiff at home thought we're stuffed and down. After yesterday I think we'll stay up. My minds been changed on a weekly basis in between those two Cardiff games. I think now is the only time i've been confident.
Too many gutless and inconsistent displays from senior pros this season who along with many of the new signings not lived up to expectation, wage packets and in some cases talent. Mistakes off the pitch all round from too many people who should be seen and not heard and in some cases not seen at all and no leadership from the top down.
I've changed my mind on loads of things and don't see any problem with that, might even be wrong on occasion, happy to be proved wrong if it means we're better for it but I still stand by what I post at the time, if folk don't like it no problem. What does rile me if the smug comments from some on here when all they do is seem to want to make a point of proving others wrong without offering much else to the forum.
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I've been saying we'd go down all season. Thankfully now it looks like I will be wrong. Hey, it happens, unless one happens to be either a) god or b) privy to secret and indisputable information - no-one will ever be right all of the time.
We have managed to sneak a couple of away wins at Swansea and at Norwich which will go a hell of a long way towards us retaining our status. I didn't think we'd do that but we did. i thought we were extremely lucky at Swansea we should've been dead and buried at half time but yesterday was a solid performance and for once we actually looked organised.
It's not all over yet, I think one more win will probably be enough.
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Ah queue the "hindsight" merchants who themselves were nowhere to be seen as recent as 1 week ago !!
I thought we would go down but am I not ALLOWED to change my mind or be wrong. God its like the gestapo but worse !!
Hindsight ? , no ...purely pointing out you never , ever know in football .
Like Stoke away a few years back.....I'm sure you remember that. :D
To be fair Greenock you do change your mind like the weather regarding the Albion. :)
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Fair play if you think after yesterday we are staying up, wish I had that amount of confidence. Something against Tottenham and then I will change my mind.
I can tell you know after we lost to Vile I almost wanted us to go down to start again, but after yesterday I've never wanted us to stay up as much. We offer something to this league and without us and our fans the league.....no bugger it the world would be a darker place :D
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Hindsight ? , no ...purely pointing out you never , ever know in football .
Like Stoke away a few years back.....I'm sure you remember that. :D
To be fair Greenock you do change your mind like the weather regarding the Albion. :)
Hindsight ? , YES..NOT MANY POINTING OUT " YOU NEVER KNOW IN FOOTBALL" 1 WEEK AGO !!!
Stoke a few years ago, yes I remember that ........I was there
I do change my mind occasionally but that's determined by how we are playing or have played, and up until yesterday, we've looked doomed.
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Hindsight ? , YES..NOT MANY POINTING OUT " YOU NEVER KNOW IN FOOTBALL" 1 WEEK AGO !!!
Stoke a few years ago, yes I remember that ........I was there
I do change my mind occasionally but that's determined by how we are playing or have played, and up until yesterday, we've looked doomed.
:D ..... It wasn't (and it's not over yet) looking good but i wouldn't say we looked doomed purely because there's three maybe four teams just as bad or indeed worse than us. I was one who quietly fancied us to get at least a point at Norwich because the signs against Cardiff attacking wise were good , our record at Carrow Road is decent and more than anything i knew things weren't right behind the scenes at Norwich despite their excellent home form.
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I'd said if we survived it would be virtue of the three sides beneath us being somehow worse than we are. I for one thought we would be relegated this season but thankfully we've managed too pulled two victories from absolutely nowhere. We now have a bit of breathing space and control our own destiny but that shouldn't disguise the urgent need of a make over this squad needs in the summer.
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Four more points should be enough and I too thought we'd end up in Championship league. A lot of work to be done in the summer Mel has to be backed with his own coaches and personal so finger out Jeremy
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I can't see many, if any, changes to the coaching staff. If we stay up we'll probably keep David Gomez who came in as 1st team coach a couple of months ago. Mel seems to get on well with KD and DK, so I can't see us changing it further.
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Yes we are.....
I would humbly like to withdraw this statement :-[
:D
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I would humbly like to withdraw this statement :-[
:D
Can you just wait until the fat lady has started to sing please :P
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I felt a few weeks ago that we would go down and I couldn't see us winning another game. However two very good, hard fought and team wins at Swansea and Norwich have now convinced me that we will stay up. As well as the teams in the bottom three not been winning enough of games against teams in and around them.
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Can you just wait until the fat lady has started to sing please :P
She did, briefly, but I told her to shut up and go and make my tea! ;D ;D
(If ever she reads this I think I'm going to have to go to the Chippy :o)
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A few weeks ago, it was hardly surprising many thought we were going down, playing poorly led by a manager who was struggling to get his ideas over and team devoid of energy and drive.
A few weeks on, we seem to have a pretty united club and fan base, all pulling together to get us out of the mess we were in.
I genuinely believe the Spanish flag campaign was a major catalyst in this, the fans had there say on Pepe Mel when the silence from the club left a void that needed filling.
The inquest on the season can wait, there is still work to be done on and off the pitch. Lessons need to be learned, I hope the club are listening.
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A few weeks ago, it was hardly surprising many thought we were going down, playing poorly led by a manager who was struggling to get his ideas over and team devoid of energy and drive.
A few weeks on, we seem to have a pretty united club and fan base, all pulling together to get us out of the mess we were in.
I genuinely believe the Spanish flag campaign was a major catalyst in this, the fans had there say on Pepe Mel when the silence from the club left a void that needed filling.
The inquest on the season can wait, there is still work to be done on and off the pitch. Lessons need to be learned, I hope the club are listening.
I agree, its galvanized the players and fans together a little more. I have just told Franksie via a text this very same thing :)
Continue with the flags. The players now realise how much we feel about Pepe and the media campaign that was against him
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I think our fans have been magnificent in backing Pepe, well about 80% I'd say, which is fantastic backing given our poor form prior to the Swansea win, & yes, I agree, it's because Pepe & the players can see we've taken to the guy that it's got an extra 10% out of everybody. I feared for us after Cardiff scored that last ditch equaliser, but after Sunderland lost last Monday & Norwich getting dragged back into it, I'm a lot more hopeful now.
I'm a big fan of Yacob & Billy Jones but the same 11 that started at Norwich have earned the right to start on Saturday IMO.
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no chance only the top 7 teams have lost less games than us
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It seems likely that we will finish above Sunderland and Norwich now. Sunderland just have too many points to get and Norwich have a youth team manager taking on 4 of the best clubs in the country. Finding another one is difficult with Fulham and Cardiff finding some form. However our goal difference is superior and we have a game in hand on these teams. If we get one more win Cardiff will need 8 points from their last 4 games so that could be enough. Difficult to win games when you cannot defend though! All in all we still look likely to just do it but I wouldn't put money on it.
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We should stay up but have obviously thrown to many games away this season. Our goal difference is better than all below us and we have a game in hand over Norwich, Fulham and Cardiff. If Sunderland win their game in hand over us they are still 4 points behind us! Keep the faith!
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Norwich - draw
Tottenham - win
City - loss
West Ham - draw
Arsenal - loss
Sunderland - ?? toss a coin
Stoke - ?? Stoke will be decidedly on the beach but they are a bogey team so who knows.
This is what I predicted earlier. I thought we would get something from the Norwich and Tottenham games, I only got them the wrong way around. :)
What is absolutely killing us is our weak fullbacks (even if we have plenty of other weaknesses). It's so easy for opponents to attack us. Having said that we are not that easy to defeat which is a strength. But it's a sign of the imbalance of the squad that we cannot put a solid 90 minutes together.
We need to win at least one of the West Ham, Sunderland and Stoke games to stay up. Two of those teams will be on the beach. If we can't win at least one in those circumstances we deserve to drop.
I think Norwich (killer last four games) and Sunderland are pretty much down now, Cardiff aren't that strong either and have a 4 point gap to make up to us. But they have Stoke, Sunderland, Newcastle and Chelsea left ie a couple of teams that like Southampton have hit the beach and a sixpointer.
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The manner in which we threw away the points today is disappointing however watching Spurs pop Sunderland 5-1 on Monday I would have happily taken a draw prior to kick off. All in all this was a good result and another vital point.
I firmly believe it leaves us needing 1 win to stay up. Sunderland, West Ham or Stoke.
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Having watched Sunderland today really have to hope they are already down and have nothing to play for as they were better than Everton today and very very unlucky to lose, their intensity at times overpowered Everton and would doubt whether we could combat it.
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Having watched Sunderland a fair bit recently they only have one real player capable of doing anything and that is Johnson, very few goals up front, no pace at the back and they hardly win the games against teams around them. I think we were quite lucky to get the point, Spurs were all over us in the second half, Foster makes too great saves in the first half and saves a penalty.
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8 points out of 15 is a very good return for a team in relegation trouble and we have played some very good teams as well. Yes it could have been better but also we could have lost at Norwich and been doomed. Sunderland and Cardiff are down and Norwich are unlikely to get another point so today was the point we needed to make us safe.
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8 points out of 15 is a very good return for a team in relegation trouble and we have played some very good teams as well. Yes it could have been better but also we could have lost at Norwich and been doomed. Sunderland and Cardiff are down and Norwich are unlikely to get another point so today was the point we needed to make us safe.
Disagree re: cardiff.
We could be in the relegation zone by the time we play City.
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We could be in the relegation zone by the time we play City.
While this is theoretically true, it would require both Norwich beating Liverpool and Fulham beating Spurs by a thirty-goal margin. I'm not racing to the bookies on either (although if Spurs defend like they did in the first half today, I wouldn't put it past them to ship a few dozen).
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I don't think we'll go down but I think we're lucky there are at least three worse teams then us this season.
We have West Ham and Stoke at home who'll have nothing to play for as well as a potentially already relegated Sunderland away. We'll get at least three points out of those and that'll be enough. Our GD is like a point too.
Norwich will get 3 points maximum
Fulham will get 6 points maximum
Cardiff will get 6 points maximum
We've dragged it out far longer than we should and I can't wait for the season to end. We've dropped so many points through referees Chelsea, Stoke and Arsenal and shocking defending three two nil leads lost and a 3 nil one now.I hope we get a new back four for next season. Reid and Ridgewell aren't up to it any more, not their fault but that's life; our centre-backs are too slow and need competition.
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Norwich - draw
Tottenham - win
City - loss
West Ham - draw
Arsenal - loss
Sunderland - ?? toss a coin
Stoke - ?? Stoke will be decidedly on the beach but they are a bogey team so who knows.
This is what I predicted earlier. I thought we would get something from the Norwich and Tottenham games, I only got them the wrong way around. :)
What is absolutely killing us is our weak fullbacks (even if we have plenty of other weaknesses). It's so easy for opponents to attack us. Having said that we are not that easy to defeat which is a strength. But it's a sign of the imbalance of the squad that we cannot put a solid 90 minutes together.
We need to win at least one of the West Ham, Sunderland and Stoke games to stay up. Two of those teams will be on the beach. If we can't win at least one in those circumstances we deserve to drop.
I think Norwich (killer last four games) and Sunderland are pretty much down now, Cardiff aren't that strong either and have a 4 point gap to make up to us. But they have Stoke, Sunderland, Newcastle and Chelsea left ie a couple of teams that like Southampton have hit the beach and a sixpointer.
Unfortunately, anyone who has Newcastle to play almost as a 'free pass' at the moment. >:(
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Unfortunately, anyone who has Newcastle to play almost as a 'free pass' at the moment. >:(
Let's say we win one of our games against West Ham, Stoke or Sunderland and lose the rest - we end up on 36 points.
If Cardiff win two games, say against Newcastle and Stoke (the Potters would love to hand Cardiff points if it relegated us I'm sure) and draw against Sunderland and lose against Chelsea they end up on... 36 points. But Cardiff are -20 goals worse than us in the goals against column. If Cardiff win three games we obviously have to win one and draw two or win two of our remaining games.
As it looks now we should just about make it unless we completely implode.
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I still believe we will go down mainly because this bunch of players have no mental strength. If it comes to last day squeaky bum time do you really fancy them to hang on in the last 10mins??.......................no nor me! :(
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I still believe we will go down mainly because this bunch of players have no mental strength. If it comes to last day squeaky bum time do you really fancy them to hang on in the last 10mins??.......................no nor me! :(
Although we managed it at Norwich
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That result at Villa in January certainly was a 6-pointer. Look where both we and Villa would be now....
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The bookies today have us around 6/1 to 8/1 to go down.
Sunderland around 1/10, Cardiff around 1/4 and Norwich around 1/2. Fulham are evens.
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Anybody had a change of heart again
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Yesterday We threw away 2 points and yes at the start of the day I would of been more than happy with a point, but being 3 nil up at home and coming away with a draw the huge effect that must have on the squads morale.
I dont know what to think after yesterday, whether we stay up or go down I cant wait for this season to be over
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Anybody had a change of heart again
Yes there has been to many basic errors for it to not end in misery its written in the headlines :( however its big positive we do have players like sess who have got the bit between there teeth west ham is going to be the biggest game in years i feel.
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It would be very pleasurable in many ways to achieve safety by beating West Ham!
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Has anybody noticed we are 9th top scoters in the prem.
Not ban after all the Lukaku,long ,Odemwingie talk.
That's why we don't lose many
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I still believe we will go down mainly because this bunch of players have no mental strength. If it comes to last day squeaky bum time do you really fancy them to hang on in the last 10mins??.......................no nor me! :(
The two most crucial matches we've had this season in my opinion were Swansea away and Norwich away and we managed wins in both. Not about mental strength, we have a rubbish defence.
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The two most crucial matches we've had this season in my opinion were Swansea away and Norwich away and we managed wins in both. Not about mental strength, we have a rubbish defence.
Let just hope they can see it through
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Let just hope they can see it through
Bloody hope so then sort it out next season. At least it looks as though Yaya Toure maybe out against us. keep it below 4 and I'd be content. Has to be said we've had more pens conceded than any other prem team and only Norwich have had less given.
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We've never looked like going down since Clarke was sacked. How this thread has got to page 7 I'll never know.
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For all that think we are going down you can get 8/1 so put your money where your mouth is, free money isn't it?
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For all that think we are going down you can get 8/1 so put your money where your mouth is, free money isn't it?
I backed Swansea to go down at 15/2 just before Laudrup was sacked. I hope that one comes in as it will also mean we survive!
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Having this discussion yesterday, and I said:
Norwich have already got 32 points, and you can't see them getting to 35.
Fulham might string some results together, but they have to climb over Norwich to get to us, so there us a buffer zone.
Cardiff might have won, but its only their third(? - correct me if I'm wrong) league win since Solskjaer took over. And Southampton looked like they were either on the beech or saving themselves for Brazil (probably don't want a repeat of the Rodriguez injury).
Sunderland might have games in hand on others, but they look shot.
I think we'll survive, but by the skin of our teeth, and mainly due to the incompetence of others - one more win and another draw, and I'd say we'll have enough.
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I backed Swansea to go down at 15/2 just before Laudrup was sacked. I hope that one comes in as it will also mean we survive!
If Swansea lose today you have to think they will be very close to being relegated due to current form.
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I think Fulham are likely to send Norwich down, but if Cardiff can string a couple of wins together and Swansea keep up their current form, Cardiff could possibly still survive at their arch-rivals' expense; what an end to the season that would be for them. (Obviously we'd need to get our act together and get out of the road, mind).
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If Swansea lose today you have to think they will be very close to being relegated due to current form.
Swansea's last 4 games will see them stay up. Newcastle (a), Villa (h), Southampton (h), Sunderland (a). Southampton are the only team there not in horrible form, and even then the defeat at home to Cardiff suggests they might be done for the season now too.
Frankly as far as survival is concerned we'd be better off with them beating Villa most likely.
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Swansea's last 4 games will see them stay up. Newcastle (a), Villa (h), Southampton (h), Sunderland (a). Southampton are the only team there not in horrible form, and even then the defeat at home to Cardiff suggests they might be done for the season now too.
Frankly as far as survival is concerned we'd be better off with them beating Villa most likely.
Swansea beating Villa would be interesting....
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Swansea v Villa is looking like a "winner is safe" match. On the same day we have West Ham which I'd call must win purely because it will probably see us safe long before STOKE
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Would any of you chaps prefer Championship football
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Would any of you chaps prefer Championship football
I said yes a while back but slightly changing my mind i think we have had a comical season its been very poor at times from all concerned with the club however if we have a mass clearout in the summer and bring in some different players it will be interesting, With pepes style i think it would be safer to play in the prem than try and get out of the championship with.
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Would any of you chaps prefer Championship football
There are things that i miss about the Championship more midweek games, cheaper tickets. I really hope that we can stay up. With a summer of changes hopefully and some new players coming in and Mel then able to get his style through to the players who knows what next season will bring. It would also be good to still be a division higher than Wolves
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I can't say we would deserve to go down, we have just drawn so many games it's quite unbelievable, have we ever drawn so many games in a season? If the league was based on amount of defeats we would be doing just fine lol :o
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Would any of you chaps prefer Championship football
From a personal point of view, yes I would prefer it. Great day days, costs not so bad, no plastics, very few sky matches. Might even get a few decisions go our way! From a club point of view though I know the Premiership is where we need to be.
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Swansea v Villa is looking like a "winner is safe" match. On the same day we have West Ham which I'd call must win purely because it will probably see us safe long before STOKE
whoever wins will be safe because it means Cardiff would have to win 3 out of there 4 games really. with swanseas other games I can see them picking up at least another point. Norwich will pull of a result in one of those last 4 games I feel. maybe Chelsea as they will have the champions league on there mind. again Fulham 6 points maybe 7,ditto Cardiff. I think sunderland are gone. so for me we need minimum 3 points to stay up, surely we can win one game in 5!!
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With only a handful of games left the permutations are still mind boggling. I will go out on a limb and say it is virtually impossible for more than 2 of the bottom four to escape particularly as Cardiff play Sunderland and they both have to win that fixture to have a realistic chance of survival and obviously that cannot happen. Equally because Swansea play Villa only one of those teams could slide into the relegation places at the death.
I think it unlikely that 2 from the bottom four will get to 37 points. Which leaves us with the following scenario
2 going from Sunderland Fulham Cardiff and Norwich
Plus Possibly 1 from WBA and either Swansea or Villa.
Hull on 36 points are probably safe even if they don't pick up another point for the rest of the season. If any team in the 2nd group lose all their games they will probably go down behind Fulham Norwich or Cardiff but even that is not certain.
If we want to go into the final week of the season in a position of relative safety then we must beat West Ham but whatever the outcome it is likely that we will go into the final week of the season with our destiny in our own hands given that a win and a draw is likely to be enough from this point.
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It's going to be very tough and obviously some of the sides below us have very winnable games in the run in as we do too. I think it's natural to look at the other teams fixtures and assume they will get plenty of points, but I still think we will all end up picking up a similar number of points as each other and we will just about be ok.
There is a good reason that those in the bottom 3 or 4 are below us and that is because they don't score lots of goals, they don't defend very well and they don't pick up that many wins. It's so unlikely that a side in that position will win 2 of their last 4, let alone anymore so hopefully we will scrape through in the last week or two. If two sides below us manage to string 2 or more wins together in what remains then they probably deserve to stay up.
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Two things are crystal clear following last night's City v Sunderland result.
1. City are not invincible. We need to go there on Saturday and look to come away with something. Sunderland could and should have won.
2. Sunderland are not dead yet. They could still be clinging on by the time we play them.
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Two things are crystal clear following last night's City v Sunderland result.
1. City are not invincible. We need to go there on Saturday and look to come away with something. Sunderland could and should have won.
2. Sunderland are not dead yet. They could still be clinging on by the time we play them.
But does this present first team squad have the belief, confidence and know-how on getting something from what on paper seems an impossible task?
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But does this present first team squad have the belief, confidence and know-how on getting something from what on paper seems an impossible task?
We go there on Monday, not Saturday
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And Sunderland are still dead
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The west ham game is now huge, we need to get the win otherwise we will be scrambling around at the end of the season.
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Absolutely no doubt about it the West Ham game is massive.The club must fill the stadium
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Pepe needs to get first Home win and if other results go are way in next two games we could be safe not mathematically but with better goal difference
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Absolutely no doubt about it the West Ham game is massive.The club must fill the stadium
Indeed, especially as Cardiff play Sunderland that weekend as well. A victory for us over West Ham and a draw between the other two could leave things looking much more rosy then, particularly with Norwich away at Man U that weekend.
For once, we need to hope that West Ham win this weekend, as their thoughts might then start to turn towards the summer holidays.
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Sunderland are dead i agree with jackrussell they needed them 3 points and the 88th minute leveller was killer for them, I was very worried at one point though as the win would have given them huge confidence at the wrong time of the season for us and also they had winnable games coming up.
The man city game is a tough one if we sit back and dont believe in ourselves we will get kicking especially the way we defend under pressure at times, But if we keep our composure and players like sess, Mulumbu, Mozza and whoever plays up top have got the bit between there legs you never know as we have proved at times this season. Its an uphill task but after last night far from impossible.
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Last night's result has very little impact on us the only Sunderland game that has any impact for us is our game on 7th May. It did however show as other posters have said that City aren't invincible.
Our game with West Ham whilst not being a must win is definitely a must not lose game. I am confident that we will go to Sunderland and get all 3 points; certainly they are no stronger than Swansea or Norwich.
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Pepe needs to get first Home win and if other results go are way in next two games we could be safe not mathematically but with better goal difference
Thats what worries me we havent got a home win under him yet and have threw away to leads to comical defending, I think draw against west ham and win against sunderland.
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Theres no impact at all in my opinion. A point was useless to both teams probaly even more useless to sunderland then city. Sunderland go to chelsea saturday.
City have to beat us.if liverpool win sunday they have to beat us to even have a glimour of hope.
City will beat us im quite certain of that (i hope im wrong)
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A win would have changed the landscape but a draw whilst creditable does very little to change Sunderland's prospects. The Cardiff game is still an absolute must win for both teams, the loser is consigned to the Championship but a draw would possibly see both relegated.
It is very simple from our perspective if we win against West Ham and draw against either Sunderland or Stoke there is very little likelihood of us being relegated almost regardless of what Sunderland or anyone else does. Okay if all the bottom four suddenly string four results together we are in the mire but realistically that seems unlikely given that the teams at the bottom are there because they haven't been able to do that all season.
.
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Even if it has given Sunderland a chink of light they have run out of games, virtually 3 wins behind us.He gets my coach of the season if he keeps them up.Imposibles
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stokies would be doing us a huge favor if they beat Cardiff, Will ease the pressure significantly on us.
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stokies would be doing us a huge favor if they beat Cardiff, Will ease the pressure significantly on us.
Spot on and tottenham and Southampton on Saturday along with Chelsea
Liverpool on Sunday
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If we go down it will be our own fault.
We have three winnable games in West Ham,Sunderland and Stoke.If Norwich,Cardiff and Fulham had these to play we would all be saying they should win them so why can't we!
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If we do go down.Who do you blame?
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If we do go down.Who do you blame?
The players, Clarke and Peace. I feel sorry for Pepe Mel for being thrown into this mess.
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If we do go down.Who do you blame?
Peace, Clarke, Mel, the players, back room staff, Garlick. More or less everyone.
Clueless bunch of idiots every single one of them.
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Would any of you chaps prefer Championship football
I can't imagine there's any Albion supporter who wants to see Albion relegated, but all we as supporters can do is cheer them on, give positive support at the matches and hope for the best.
We'll clearly have a bit of a better picture of how things stand by around 10pm on Monday night but at the time of typing this you'd have to favour us above the present bottom four clubs to avoid the drop.
Clearly though when you're going through a tough old season, the attractions of the alternatives can come into play a lot more than when things are going (relatively) well.
If the worst were to happen, I suppose there would be the obvious supporter benefits of less TV fixture changes (and I know we get off fairly lightly compared with many clubs), and for those of us who like to travel to a few away games, the obvious plus point of cheaper tickets and less likelihood of forward planning for a match to find it's switched to a Monday night and charging £56 (I'm positive we could have sold 3000+ tickets for Man City if it was on a weekend with reasonable ticket prices rather than the 300 we've sold).
There's a number of away fixtures which would be very attractive (the Midlands ones obviously) and a couple that would make an ideal weekend away.
There would be a lot more midweek matches, something which I enjoy and is very convenient with working nearby and a direct train home (fully acknowledge that is not the case for many though).
Plus we get an extra 3 home matches with our Season Tickets (ha ha).
I'd also definitely not miss all the Premiership hype and obsession with greed and cash, plus the sense of arrogance and entitlement of the supporters of the bigger clubs
I'm really confident we'll actually avoid the drop, and really hope so as there are some decent clubs in the Championship and being able to bounce straight back, especially with the likelihood of a big Summer of upheaval ahead regardless of our league status, is far from certain.
But I think, after the initial huge disappointment, that's how I'd view it if the worst happened as there'd be no point in being a miserable git all Summer!
As I say though, I think we'll just about be OK and certainly hope so.
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Saturday is more important than Monday as we are not expecting to get anything. Hopefully some or all of the results will go our way on Saturday. Must say I am particularly worried about Cardiff v Stoke though.
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Saturday is more important than Monday as we are not expecting to get anything. Hopefully some or all of the results will go our way on Saturday. Must say I am particularly worried about Cardiff v Stoke though.
The good news is if they do win they are still below us having played 2 games more
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The good news is if they do win they are still below us having played 2 games more
True but it will be getting too close for comfort.
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It will just mean we have to beat West Ham thats all :D
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Would any of you chaps prefer Championship football
Absolutely no way, as much as I hate the PL and greed I want to watch us playing the best teams every week.
That long slog in the championship sounds unbearable to me.
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It will just mean we have to beat West Ham thats all :D
Or three more of our speciality draws.....
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Would any of you chaps prefer Championship football
with the hope of getting promoted back to .........the Premier League!
There's nothing I miss about the Championship.
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I think we will be safe just Mel gets two home wins and a draw with Sunderland that's forty points and safety
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I think we will be safe just Mel gets two home wins and a draw with Sunderland that's forty points and safety
Id be amazed and delighted if that was the case, I think were going to do it the other way a win at sunderland and draw v the spammers.
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results have been quite kind. we get a free hit at man city really so hopefully a team with a bit of pace to hit them on the break. Swansea winning puts them almost safe think we really need just 3 points with our goal difference.
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I'm far from convinced we will stay up. I've had a nagging feeling for so long now that Stoke will relegate us and it will be Odemwingie who puts the final nail in the coffin.
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If we don't beat west ham then I think that'll be it for us. Sunderland are grinding out big results while we are throwing away points, Fulham have an easy run in on paper too.
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We've had so many chances to get out of trouble and blown every one of them, you really do have to think its all setting up to be a season with a sting in its tail.
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I am very very worried. I am not sure we have the bottle to see it out.
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One positive is that Liverpool have a massive incentive to get one hand on the Trophy tomorrow at Norwich. I still have a feeling that Norwich will still add to their own points tally before the end of the season.
Sunderland away is now looking like a huge game we dare not lose, the Black cats have Cardiff at home next week and last game of the season is home to Swansea who are all but safe.
It's still in our own hands but that's the trouble, I don't trust our lot to get the job done.
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We certainly ain't got Sunderland s will. Good job fulham lost
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Mixed bag of results
Sunderland really given themselves a good chance, cardiff looking like they're chances are slimming, norwich look pretty doomed , fulham well not too sure now
Maybe it's the nature of the league but one day I think were safe and the other teams have lost fight and passion next I think we're really struggle
Barring olsson we don't have a natural leader who I think will pull us through games we may be lucky enough because some of the teams below us have got to play each other and norwich have the top four (but after sunderlands escapades nothing is certain) I know the same should apply with us going to man city but after watching us bottle so many games this season I can't see us getting anything there
I think we probably will stay up but after watching sunderland beat chelsea and nearly beating city I'm getting more and more nervous
The only one thing guaranteed is its going to be squeaky bum time till the end of the season
So baggies I ask you who's going to be the bottom three I'm thinking cardiff norwich and fulham
Well I hope so anyway
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Villa Norwich & Cardiff!
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The results were so good earlier but that Sunderland match was a major blow bringing them back into contention. However 1 win could still be enough with the superior goal difference. Fulham and Cardiff would need 2 wins and a draw to catch us which is unlikely. I can't see Norwich getting to 37 either.
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Well that's a shocker(sun v chels), I thought it was strange that people were righting them off as they never looked cut off.
This week they're an inspiration and we need to go to city to win its certainly means doing better than Norwich Carsiff and Fulham may still not be enough. Because the way the fixtures are we may have to brace ourselves for the trip to Sunderland to be HUGE. Lets just pray we pick up a win v west ham and maybe something from man c and/or arsenal. We're all saying we just need to wins but the problem is the second may not come till 1 or the last 2 games which heaps the pressure on.
I think we'll get the points but they may not come till the last of our 5 games.
Or in typical wba fashion we pick up 3 v man c then nothing till stoke!
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Villa Norwich & Cardiff!
That would be lovely ;D (although I'm not bothered if Fulham or Sunderland go either)
Every game if a tough one at this stage of the season and it really is impossible to predict, but I still do believe we will stay up one way or another 8)
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Results not great for us today. Swansea have pulled away and Sunderland winning has completely opened it up.
Was hoping there would be 1 or 2 all but relegated by now but Sunderland have a great chance with their run in after picking up 4 points from City/Chelsea away.
Think 37 will be enough to stay up leaving us needing 1 win and a draw. West Ham game is huge now, no excuses for us to not win that one.
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West ham need one more win too. Oh dear
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Its in our own hands as it has been for weeks now.
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West ham need one more win too. Oh dear
They are safe! With the goal difference, 2 of the bottom 4 would have to get to 38 - it wont happen.
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I think we only need one more win but the bottom line is that we really should have secured our safety with our last two home games.
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Nothing much has changed really, despite life unexpectedly being breathed back into the Sunderland corpse. We need to beat West Ham and then everything will look so much better. Under much more pressure than us now is Norwich - they'll be feeling that they have to get something tomorrow.
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In effect due to GD Fulham and Cardiff need 1 win and 1 draw out of 3 games to go past us. Sunderlandneed 1 win and 2 draws out of 4 games.
That is irregardless of our additional points tally. 1 more win means we will be safe unless Fulham Cardiff and Sunderland all win 2 more and draw another out of their last few. Add In one more win for us and suddenly villa are drawn in and their run is not easy.
Norwich need 2 more points to go past us and that is not easy given their run in.
If we cannot win 1 more game, we deserve to go down. It is in our hands, we need to grow 11 pairs. (And hope Jonas is fit to manage carroll).
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Sunderland have always turned it on against the big clubs this season, a bit like us. Cardiff not winning today was a blow to them and I think that's them done. Fulham have decent form and a decent run in, I think they'll scrape through. Norwich may pick up a point or 2 but don't think it will be enough.
One more win and a point for us should do it. Hopefully win against West Ham and point away to Sunderland, but knowing Albion it will be the other way round.
Sunderland, Cardiff and Norwich relegated.
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and I think that's them done.
How many times have we said this now??? Sunderland have proved Nobodys done until their done. Cardiff won at southampton so beating sunderland isnt out of the question. I wouldnt be surprised if norwich win tomorrow.
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Does anyone get the feeling, that under Pulis, The player would be scared to put in such half arsed performances in over the last few weeks?
It all seems a little too comfortable to me at the moment!
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We could do with arsenal winning their next two games and everton losing theirs. That would mean arsenal have 4th spot and all eyes would be on the fa cup final by the time we play them.
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To be honest I expected Sunderland to win today, this is the problem this time of year, Chelsea have one eye on the champions league match.
If we fail to win another game then we totally deserve to go down, it's ridiculous how we've managed to get to this point with how many draws and giveaways we've had this season.
Next weeks fixtures will sort it out a bit I think with Sunderland against Cardiff, Fulham v hull and us v west ham. I think whoever gets the better out of those games will get out of it.
We may grab a lucky point or two at man city or arsenal, but I really wouldn't want a last game shoot out with Stoke and drunk of Pete.
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It remains simple if we do what we have to do over the next 5 games what anyone else does is of no consequence. Yes Sunderland's result is bad news for us but then it is worse news for Norwich Fulham and Cardiff.
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Clearly the Sunderland result has jolted the rest of us but really our aims won't change that much , cool heads are needed all around.
I honestly think a win might just do it although another draw might be needed , 4 points in the next two games could well be enough.
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Sunderland (bottom at Christmas ;)) are 4 points behind us having played 1 more game than us.
Cardiff and Fulham are 3 points (with goal difference as good as 4 points) having both played 2 more games than us. Norwich are a point behind us having played 1 more game than us and have by far the worst run in.
Funny old game and I expect a few twists and turns but can not honestly see two of these teams coming passed us.
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just did a predictor, i think we'll beat west ham and 36 will be enough, but that would be staing up o goal difference and i don't fancy that. I think we'll get draws against sunderlnd and stoke and end up comfortably safe with our goal difference. I've got cardiff on 31 points and down, norwich on 33 and down, and fulham, sunderland and villa all on 36 with fulham down on their dire goal difference.
If we don't beat West Ham then we need things to go our way which hasn't really happened at all this season
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Here's the vitals:
Team ++ Games Played ++ Points ++ Fixtures left
Sunderland 34 29 Cardiff H
Man Utd A
West BromH
Swansea H
Fulham 35 30 Hull H
Stoke A
C Palace H
Cardiff 35 30 Sunderland A
Newcastle A
Chelsea H
Norwich 34 32 Liverpool H
Man Utd A
Chelsea A
Arsenal H
ALBION 33 33 Man City A
West Ham H
Arsenal A
Sunderland A
Stoke H
Villa 34 35 Swansea A
Hull H
Man City A
Tottenham A
Hull 33 36 Arsenal H
Fulham A
Villa A
Man Utd A
Everton H
Swansea 35 36 Villa H
Southampton H
Sunderland A
I think three draws against West Ham, Sunlan and Stoke will do it for us.
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The 36 points is very much based on Norwich struggling because of their fixtures. After yesterday you start to think that anything can happen in any fixture. Then you think that Norwich who have struggled all season have a youth team manager in charge who does not have the experience of Poyet. I'm going to give up thinking and go on holiday for 3 weeks. I think.
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A thought on the goal difference. At the moment we are +13 in relation to Sunderland; if they pick up points before we play them and we get hammered by Arsenal and City, that could almost closed. They could well be looking at a situation where a good win against us gives them a better goal difference. A few years ago on the final day Cardiff went to Preston 3 points and 11 goals ahead in sixth in the last champ play off place, and lost 6-0.
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It's far from over. You look at Sunderland now and think they must be flying and they will look at their fixtures and know they have a big chance.
We simply have to beat West Ham especially if we lose tomorrow. I'd like to see us get the points on the board sooner rather than later so if we get the 3 points we probably need by draws against west ham and the last 2 games that'll be a horrible way of doing it!
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Happy Easter everyone!
We'll I thought it was until I stumbled over this thread , what results were we expecting ?
Yes the black cats winning was a shock ( but must admit slightly amusing seeing the special ones face ) but it was better than Cardiff or Fulham getting 3 points .
We will not go down no way
Looking though this thread and going back over old threads it seems the same old bloggers post the same old negative comments. Yes we all agree the season hasn't panned out the way we wanted it to but we are still in there with more than a shout .
And if there is ever a sign above looking out for us that is Jesus isn't playing Easter Monday!
Come on keep the faith !
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Happy Easter everyone!
We'll I thought it was until I stumbled over this thread , what results were we expecting ?
Yes the black cats winning was a shock ( but must admit slightly amusing seeing the special ones face ) but it was better than Cardiff or Fulham getting 3 points .
We will not go down no way
Looking though this thread and going back over old threads it seems the same old bloggers post the same old negative comments. Yes we all agree the season hasn't panned out the way we wanted it to but we are still in there with more than a shout .
And if there is ever a sign above looking out for us that is Jesus isn't playing Easter Monday!
Come on keep the faith !
Well said.
We could do with everyone boyant for the West Ham game,We don't want a tense nervy atmosphere for that one.The club should play the liquidator again.
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It's in our own hands, and I think we will be safe. It'll most likely be a close squeak, but safe we will be.
Roll on next season and a fresh beginning.
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Happy Easter everyone!
We'll I thought it was until I stumbled over this thread , what results were we expecting ?
Yes the black cats winning was a shock ( but must admit slightly amusing seeing the special ones face ) but it was better than Cardiff or Fulham getting 3 points .
We will not go down no way
Looking though this thread and going back over old threads it seems the same old bloggers post the same old negative comments. Yes we all agree the season hasn't panned out the way we wanted it to but we are still in there with more than a shout .
And if there is ever a sign above looking out for us that is Jesus isn't playing Easter Monday!
Come on keep the faith !
Agreed, good stuff.
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at least two teams below us have to go on a descent run from now until end of season and with fulham and cardiff thats with only three games left and that means with our better goal diference they need to pick up four points just to get above us and albion picking up nothing in last five games. sunderland again are four points behind with goal diference in our favour so again they need to get five points and the baggies picking up nothing in the last four and five games respectivly just to get above us. norwich are losing to the pool at half time and again they need to get three points just to get above us in their final three and a half games. happy easter albion
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Fair play to Norwich, but it's another loss from them, Losing 2-3 at home to Liverpool.
You never know obviously, but i can't see them getting more than a point in their last 3 games. So I'm confident we'll finish above them.
As for our situation? 3 points will make it near certain and 4 will make it realistically impossible for our opponents.
Keep the faith (but if you can get 15/1 on us going down anywhere put £20 on it just in case)
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Fair play to Norwich, but it's another loss from them, Losing 2-3 at home to Liverpool.
You never know obviously, but i can't see them getting more than a point in their last 3 games. So I'm confident we'll finish above them.
As for our situation? 3 points will make it near certain and 4 will make it realistically impossible for our opponents.
Keep the faith (but if you can get 15/1 on us going down anywhere put £20 on it just in case)
never back against the baggies
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never back against the baggies
Best you can get is 8/1 at the moment.
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at least two teams below us have to go on a descent run from now until end of season and with fulham and cardiff thats with only three games left and that means with our better goal diference they need to pick up four points just to get above us and albion picking up nothing in last five games. sunderland again are four points behind with goal diference in our favour so again they need to get five points and the baggies picking up nothing in the last four and five games respectivly just to get above us. norwich are losing to the pool at half time and again they need to get three points just to get above us in their final three and a half games. happy easter albion
Mate you just lifted my spirits
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the problem I have is that apart from the odd 10 minutes here and there I don't see us offering the type of sustained pressure and effort that Norwich/Cardiff and Sunderland do.
If we get out of this it will by the skin of our teeth
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Anybody would think we were in the bottom 3.Its in our hands folks and the players know it, they will keep us up.
Its next season i worry about
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never back against the baggies
If it made a blind bit of difference, if somehow it made 1% of 1% difference against us, i'd never do it. But it doesn't. I've got £25 at 9/1, so if we do go down i'll have a holiday on behalf of Albion to gain some shread of joy from the misery of relegation. I do however, obviously hope i never see that £25 ever again.
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Best you can get is 8/1 at the moment.
Try this link
http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/man-city-v-west-brom/winner
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After this weekend's results we are now 1/11 to stay up, seems that the bookies think we are completely safe. I for one agree with them.
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After this weekend's results we are now 1/11 to stay up, seems that the bookies think we are completely safe. I for one agree with them.
14/1 now, shows how kind the results have been this weekend to us.
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Not sure if 36 will be enough now, Hull must be a bit worried with a tricky run in and players minds on the cup... Wigan??
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14/1 now, shows how kind the results have been this weekend to us.
Where are you getting that? The previous link was to the wrong thing (us Vs Man City, not relegation odds)
The current best is 8/1
http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/relegation
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Where are you getting that? The previous link was to the wrong thing (us Vs Man City, not relegation odds)
The current best is 8/1
http://www.oddschecker.com/football/english/premier-league/relegation
Oh right, I did not read the link, that's what I originally thought it was before yesterdays games, worth a tenner at 8/1
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My mistake! I read it wrong :o
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My mistake! I read it wrong :o
The good thing is, bookies are not often wrong, they don't give 8/1 easily, they clearly think we will stay up.
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You got to admit this is more exciting than being on the beach this time last year
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No way - give me beach football any day - we've had enough relegation battles this century!
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The good thing is, bookies are not often wrong, they don't give 8/1 easily, they clearly think we will stay up.
Can't remember if it was Mad Mick or Terry Connor who took comfort from the betting odds which showed (at that point) that the bookies didn't think the Wolves would go down...that ended well then! ;D
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Much nicer being safe with a feeling of progress at this time of year than it is to be facing a relegation battle after 3 years of safety at this date. Last year wasn't great due to the awful form but the 2 years before that were we had decent form to end the season were much more enjoyable than our attempts to self destruct.
Sunderland beating Chelsea is a big blow, that makes our game against them absolutely huge now, but otherwise the rest of the results mean there's pretty much no change in the situation. I still think 36, at most 37 points will keep us up. And if we can't manage 4 points from our last 5 games then frankly we'll be well deserving of relegation.
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The good thing is, bookies are not often wrong, they don't give 8/1 easily, they clearly think we will stay up.
Bookies are wrong all the time why else are there 6/1, 7/1, 8/1, 16/1, 20/1 winners every day of the year?
It's just that statistically 92% of people will lose on betting in the long term because they don't know what they're doing.
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Bookies are wrong all the time why else are there 6/1, 7/1, 8/1, 16/1, 20/1 winners every day of the year?
It's just that statistically 92% of people will lose on betting in the long term because they don't know what they're doing.
I am definitely one of the 92% ;D ;D
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I put 20 quid @ 13/2 on us going down. Hopefully that will ensure our survival.
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Simply the bookies odds reflect the view of the market they make money by offering a price that is less than the probability of the event happening
The relegation and staying up markets are a point in case. Ladbrokes have us at 8/1 for relegation and 1/16 to stay up. This represents a combined probability of 94.78% when obviously we will either stay up or go down 100% of the time. Therefore for every £1 staked on the combined market Ladbrokes will make £5.28 regardless of the outcome. That is why bookies generally make money and gamblers generally lose. Yes they make mistakes like for the few glorious hours about 2 months ago when you could back Norwich to go down and stay up at different bookies and make money regardless of what happened. 8)
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Simply the bookies odds reflect the view of the market they make money by offering a price that is less than the probability of the event happening
To expand on this.
If A (example) has a true chance of winning an event of 25% then the bookie should theoretically be pricing at 3/1. If the bookie offers 2/1 then in the long term (if they have worked out their percentages correctly) they will make money. For a punter it is the other way round. To make money a punter needs to understand a genuine percentage chance. If a punter thinks A has a 25% chance of winning there is no way he would bet at 2/1 or 3/1. If he can find A at 4/1 anywhere and A is a genuine 25% chance (3/1) then in the long term the punter will make money.
The vast majority don't understand this concept and even if they do they have no idea of percentage chance or how to compile a tissue hence the bookie wins and only a tiny few punters win over a period of time.
A punter should compile his / her tissue to 100% percentage chance (i.e. all the prices should add up to 100%) but do not bet unless you can find prices bigger than the prices you have in your tissue. The bookie will always create an over-round and offer prices to over 100%. If the bookie bets to 112.5% that means he expects to have to pay out £100 for every £112.50 that he takes in bets leaving him with £12.50 profit.
Examples - Race today 3.35 Yarmouth - Paddy Power prices
5/4 Piazon 5/4 = 44.44%
4 Nova Champ 20%
9/2 Finflash 18.18%
6 Penine Warrior 14.29
6 Eva Clare 14.29
20 Kalon Brama 4.762
= 116%
Say you compiled your tissue as below (this is only an example)
15/8 Piazon 34.78%
3 Penine Warrior 25%
7 Nova Champ 12.5%
7 Finflash 12.5%
9 Eva Clare 10%
18 Kalon Brama 5.263%
100%
From the example above the two you should back are Penine Warrior (particularly as he's double the price than on your tissue) and Kalon Brama because if you have compiled your percentages correctly (you need to know your stuff to do this) then those two horses have a better percentage chance than the bookies think and the bookies are therefore offering you value and in the long run if you keep betting on selections that have a better percentage chance of winning than the bookies think they have you will make money. Personally I wouldn't bother with Kalon Brama because although he is value it's only fractional and that sort of difference could be as a result of a slightly distorted tissue but Penine Warrior is more than 5% difference so this would be a bet.
You won't be able to find value in every market by any means but bookies do make errors and if you can find them and exploit them then you can make money.
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Sunderland have come back to life. It is Easter I suppose so we shouldn't be surprised.
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Not sure why people find bookies' odds so important, unless a bookie's going to come on as a sub to score the winner against West Ham on Saturday! All that matters is what we do on the pitch, not how likely or unlikely the bookies think it is that we'll do it.
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To expand on this.
If A (example) has a true chance of winning an event of 25% then the bookie should theoretically be pricing at 3/1. If the bookie offers 2/1 then in the long term (if they have worked out their percentages correctly) they will make money. For a punter it is the other way round. To make money a punter needs to understand a genuine percentage chance. If a punter thinks A has a 25% chance of winning there is no way he would bet at 2/1 or 3/1. If he can find A at 4/1 anywhere and A is a genuine 25% chance (3/1) then in the long term the punter will make money.
The vast majority don't understand this concept and even if they do they have no idea of percentage chance or how to compile a tissue hence the bookie wins and only a tiny few punters win over a period of time.
A punter should compile his / her tissue to 100% percentage chance (i.e. all the prices should add up to 100%) but do not bet unless you can find prices bigger than the prices you have in your tissue. The bookie will always create an over-round and offer prices to over 100%. If the bookie bets to 112.5% that means he expects to have to pay out £100 for every £112.50 that he takes in bets leaving him with £12.50 profit.
Examples - Race today 3.35 Yarmouth - Paddy Power prices
5/4 Piazon 5/4 = 44.44%
4 Nova Champ 20%
9/2 Finflash 18.18%
6 Penine Warrior 14.29
6 Eva Clare 14.29
20 Kalon Brama 4.762
= 116%
Say you compiled your tissue as below (this is only an example)
15/8 Piazon 34.78%
3 Penine Warrior 25%
7 Nova Champ 12.5%
7 Finflash 12.5%
9 Eva Clare 10%
18 Kalon Brama 5.263%
100%
From the example above the two you should back are Penine Warrior (particularly as he's double the price than on your tissue) and Kalon Brama because if you have compiled your percentages correctly (you need to know your stuff to do this) then those two horses have a better percentage chance than the bookies think and the bookies are therefore offering you value and in the long run if you keep betting on selections that have a better percentage chance of winning than the bookies think they have you will make money. Personally I wouldn't bother with Kalon Brama because although he is value it's only fractional and that sort of difference could be as a result of a slightly distorted tissue but Penine Warrior is more than 5% difference so this would be a bet.
You won't be able to find value in every market by any means but bookies do make errors and if you can find them and exploit them then you can make money.
This all makes sense for when the bookie is creating the book at the outset, but a sizeable bet on one horse forces him to re- balance the odds, which thereafter reflect what other bets he had taken, rather than just his calculation of the odds of the outcome.
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Not sure why people find bookies' odds so important, unless a bookie's going to come on as a sub to score the winner against West Ham on Saturday! All that matters is what we do on the pitch, not how likely or unlikely the bookies think it is that we'll do it.
I look at them purely because they provide a more objective view than I can as I ride the emotional rollercoster that this season has provided, I HATE ROLLERCOASTERS BY THE WAY.
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This all makes sense for when the bookie is creating the book at the outset, but a sizeable bet on one horse forces him to re- balance the odds, which thereafter reflect what other bets he had taken, rather than just his calculation of the odds of the outcome.
Yes. If there is significant money for one horse the bookie will shorten his price. He may or may not lengthen another prices (s) depending on whether he wants to attract money on another horse.
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at least two teams below us have to go on a descent run from now until end of season and with fulham and cardiff thats with only three games left and that means with our better goal diference they need to pick up four points just to get above us and albion picking up nothing in last five games. sunderland again are four points behind with goal diference in our favour so again they need to get five points and the baggies picking up nothing in the last four and five games respectivly just to get above us. norwich are losing to the pool at half time and again they need to get three points just to get above us in their final three and a half games. happy easter albion
AND Cardiff have to play Sunderland - they cant BOTH win.
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We are staying say we are staying up
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I cant seeing Norwich picking up another point this season. If there is a winner between Sunderland and Cardiff then surely the loser will be going down. Hopefully that will be a draw and it will look pretty certain that both will go down.
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Loose against West Ham on Saturday and its twitchy bottom time again. :'(
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It'll go to the wire. Plenty of twists and turns to come!
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Win our last two home games, we'll stay up.
Got a feeling that a win and a draw will be enough though.
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Hope we all look back on this thread and laugh in a few weeks , if we can just defend a bit better as a team we will be fine.
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3 weeks today we will all be on the beach knowing our fate sipping champaign
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Hull have 3 away games to come and finish with Everton at home. Currently 36 pts.
My revised forecast for the trap door is Cardiff, Norwich, Hull. Sunderland will survive (after being bottom Christmas too) as will Fulham
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Hull have 3 away games to come and finish with Everton at home. Currently 36 pts.
My revised forecast for the trap door is Cardiff, Norwich, Hull. Sunderland will survive (after being bottom Christmas too) as will Fulham
How i would love that for obvious reasons
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Hull have 3 away games to come and finish with Everton at home. Currently 36 pts.
My revised forecast for the trap door is Cardiff, Norwich, Hull. Sunderland will survive (after being bottom Christmas too) as will Fulham
Funny you should say that...I've got a tenner on Hull to go down at 40-1. I think that Fulham will beat them Saturday and in fact I can see them losing all their remaining games. Whereas I can see us, Sunderland and Fulham picking up enough points to overtake them.
I suppose they are 40-1 for a reason (their GD is decent too), but I still think it's far too high when they're only only on 36 points.
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There is very, very little chance of us going down, for a number of reasons:
1: Our current form actually isn't too bad. In the last six games, we have won 2, lost 2 and drawn 2, which if translated over a season would give us 50 points and a top half finish. The six teams we have played represent a reasonable spread as well, with 2 being in the top 6, 2 in the bottom 6, and 2 in the middle. What's more, 4 of these matches were away from home. Pepe Mel is clearly taking the team forward in the right direction, and results reflect this. Given the terrible run we were on before he came, the limited squad he inherited, and the lack of funds made available to him in January. I think he has done exceptionally well.
2: Of the teams below us, it would take a miracle for Norwich to survive, Cardiff and Fulham have a mountain to climb, and even Sunderland, despite 2 excellent results, are nowhere near out of the woods yet. It would take 2 of these to miraculously escape for us to be even threatened, not to mention Villa and Hull, neither of whom look very convincing.
3: Our goal difference is so much better than the teams below us that in effect we have an extra point.
4: Our run in isn't too bad and I expect us to get at least the couple of points that we need. A win against West Ham and I believe we are safe. Neither them nor Stoke have much to play for and I expect points from both.
Relegation? Honestly, and logically, it aint going to happen.
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Does Moyes going help or hinder us?
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Win our home games, simple isn't it ?. Our last home win was new years day. :o 36 should be safe with our GD. West Ham are on a slump at the moment and their fans want fat SAM out. Could work in our favor.
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How can we expect to win any match with a defence like ours, specifically our full backs? I suspect confidence is shot and that most of the team are thoroughly fed up with the lack of ambition at the Club. Frankly, we deserve to go down. I hope we don't, though, but even if we survive, I cannot see Mr Peace investing enough in the team to make next season any different to this one.
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I still feel we have just enough to stay up. I feel confident we won't lose against west ham and we will beat Sunderland.
Sunderland are having another mini revival which i put down to them being dead and buried a few games ago so they played without fear/pressure against 2 of the top sides away from home. Now there is pressure on them again to stay up and that pressure will be felt greater in home games than away games. Fulham is similar too.
As much as I'd love Hull to go down I can't see it myself. I think it will be Cardiff, Sunderland and Norwich.
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I have watched West Ham a times recently and are very reliant on hitting their big men from either wing from wide positions and have hardly any pace. they do get their midfielders in the box for knock downs so its a good time to play a high line.
We must defend wide a lot better than we have in wide areas and i am praying Macca is fit to win those areal duals,
And finally if someone is reading this on the coaching staff please keep the ball better.
Keep the faith its going to be a long 3 weeks .
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I think West Ham is a 'must not lose' rather than a 'must win'. A draw will then give us 3 chances to get the 1 win required. A defeat means we need 4 points possibly from 6 with Arsenal a likely defeat.
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disagree.This is a must win game.On paper at this moment they are the most likely team we would beat.We dont want to be leaving it for the last 2 games to pick up the 3 points we need
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disagree.This is a must win game.On paper at this moment they are the most likely team we would beat.We dont want to be leaving it for the last 2 games to pick up the 3 points we need
Yes I agree they are a team we can beat but if it's level with a few minutes to go I don't think we need to risk the point by going all out attack.
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I hate the tendency to label games "must win" when in truth they are not. West Ham is technically in the must not lose category given that we have three more games to find the 2 to 3 points that we would require for safety should we draw. That said as soon as a Head Coach in effect labels a game "must win" then it really is regardless of the actuality of the situation because the psychological impact of not winning the "must win" game is such that we probably won't win one of the following three games the last of which probably would be a genuine must win game.
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Sooner we get that win the better and for me West Ham is our most winnable game left. I can't see us getting anything at Arsenal, Stoke are our bogey side and add in the Odemwingie factor that points to a defeat. Sunderland away is a tricky one and could go either way.
So for me this is a must win.
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We need to beat West Ham. Better to get the 3 points now than having our arses pinching.
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We need to beat West Ham. Better to get the 3 points now than having our arses pinching.
but would you risk the point late on in the game?
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We will be fine, all will be good. I fancy a win tomorrow and a nice relaxed feeling tomorrow night. A point at Sunderland and at least a point against Stoke, though I think we'll be safe by then.
Cardiff, Norwich and possibly Hull for the drop, though obviously I'd happily replace any of those three with Veela.
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but would you risk the point late on in the game?
That's a good question, what would count as a risk? If we are exerting pressure during the game towards the end then we should be going all out for a win yes! People talk on here about drab football and that we are not seeing edge of the seat football so id rather go down trying to win at least.
A point would keep us breathing but I expect us too beat West Ham anyway
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It shouldn't be hard to get the pints needed. However losing the remaining games would not be good! :o
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It shouldn't be hard to get the pints needed. However losing the remaining games would not be good! :o
Depends how busy the bar is!! ;D
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My Dad was a Villa fan, god bless him, and he took me to see the Vile when i was 5 years old. I sat on his shoulders, behind all the blokes with mackintoshes and peekcaps, and the moment that changed my life was when the Baggies ran out onto the pitch in the most beautiful colours i had ever seen. 'Dad, Dad, ' i said , 'who are they?' ' They are the Baggies, son' he replied and knew at that moment he had lost me.
As Baggies fans we have suffered probably more then most, but this season for me has been nearly unbearable. Lay luck, referees and of course the press have. been against us far more then normal.
I hope we dont get relegated, I hope Pepe Mel stays... but Ive been a fan for 58 years and always will be....Albion come what may and fecking proud. JFDI!
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I think we must now be at least 90% safe, especially if Norwich don't win at Old Trafford now.
Villa still really need at least another point and at the moment its hard to see where it will come from.
We are on the way to being top Midlands club again.
Delighted for Pepe Mel. Onwards and upwards!
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I think you mean WEST Midlands, club, Stoke, will be the leading Midlands club this term.
I agree with your happiness, but this has been a disastrous season, nothing at all to be proud about.
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You are correct - Stoke don't count :D
Nothing to be proud about, but neither would relegation! Can't wait to put this season behind us now.
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I have a big thing about Stoke, I really hope that we batter them at the end of the season, they can stick Delilah, where the sun don't shine....
Our Chairman has to do something this summer, unfortunately I just can't see it.
Keep the faith...
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played well today, I think Mel deserves a season or two
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I hope all the non believers on here in our team are happy now that they have been proved very very wrong.
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Here's what's needed for the sides below us to get ahead of us now:
Norwich: If they lose today, they'll then need to win both of their remaining games to go above us. On cue, they've just gone behind at Old Trafford!
Fulham: Need to win both of their remaining games to go above us
Cardiff: Need to win 2 and draw 1 of their remaining 3 games to go above us
Sunderland: If they lose or draw against Cardiff tomorrow, they'll then need to win all 3 of their remaining games to go above us.
Villa: We'll they've only got 1 point in their last 6 games. They need to beat Hull next week, as they have Man City away and Spurs away as their final 2 games.
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Well I bet today result has cheesed all you doom mungers off
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I hope all the non believers on here in our team are happy now that they have been proved very very wrong.
Yes I'm happy, but lets face it we should never have been in this position in the first place.
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Yes I'm happy, but lets face it we should never have been in this position in the first place.
Us and the other 9 clubs?
but you're right we shouldn't have been in this position and maybe wouldn't but for silly errors from both refs and our players... but that's football, and every club could say the same.
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38 points will now put us mathematically safe so I hope we can get the 2 extra points as quickly as possible. We may already have enough but we musn't relax yet.
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That result has pretty much ensured our safety and another year of Premier League football. It would take the strangest set of results possible for the teams below us in their remaining games for us to go down even on 36 points with our goal difference. That's before taking into consideration that we may pick up another point or two before the end of the season. Enjoy the rest of your night ;)
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That result has pretty much ensured our safety and another year of Premier League football. It would take the strangest set of results possible for the teams below us in their remaining games for us to go down even on 36 points with our goal difference. That's before taking into consideration that we may pick up another point or two before the end of the season. Enjoy the rest of your night ;)
You are right, the teams below us can barely afford to lose a game now, we are safe, I'm off out for a beer or three! ;D
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Today has all but secured our survival now. It was a massive win and I'm so pleased that the players came though it today and also for Mel he has deserved this. Lets hope we can get three points at Sunderland.
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That result has pretty much ensured our safety and another year of Premier League football. It would take the strangest set of results possible for the teams below us in their remaining games for us to go down even on 36 points with our goal difference. That's before taking into consideration that we may pick up another point or two before the end of the season. Enjoy the rest of your night ;)
If Sunderland beat Cardiff tomorrow then Cardiff can only get a maximum of 36 points with a vastly inferior goal difference (-34 us -12) so they can't catch us with Newcastle away and Chelsea at home to play.
Fulham (Stoke away and Palace home) to play can only get a maximum of 37 points again with a vastly inferior goal difference (-42)
Norwich (Chelsea away and Arsenal home) if they won both matches (unlikely) would be on 38 points again with a vastly inferior goal difference (-32)
So 2 points will make us definitely safe although I think that 1 point will be enough.
If the results go for us next weekend before we play Arsenal on the Sunday we could be safe before we play them.
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Well done to the players and the coaching staff.
This isn't a time for fans bickering - or the I told you so posts - we should just appreciate that the club will more than likely be playing in the Premier League next season.
Let's face it, some months ago we looked dead, especially after our Hull and Man United defeats. We couldn't win a game and we seemed to be inventing new ways of throwing a football match - in particularly our two recent home games.
We've obviously had problems with Pepe trying to get his methods across but in the last month or so we've seen signs of progression. We've seen annoyance too, but on the whole we've seen some progression. We're seeing players becoming more familiar with his methods and most important we've started to pick up some wins.
I thought we were as dead as a doornail but thankfully the lads have pulled together and managed to get enough points to get themselves over the line.
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If Sunderland beat Cardiff tomorrow then Cardiff can only get a maximum of 36 points with a vastly inferior goal difference (-34 us -12) so they can't catch us with Newcastle away and Chelsea at home to play.
Fulham (Stoke away and Palace home) to play can only get a maximum of 37 points again with a vastly inferior goal difference (-42)
Norwich (Chelsea away and Arsenal home) if they won both matches (unlikely) would be on 38 points again with a vastly inferior goal difference (-32)
So 2 points will make us definitely safe although I think that 1 point will be enough.
If the results go for us next weekend before we play Arsenal on the Sunday we could be safe before we play them.
If Sunderland win tomorrow this can't happen. We need a draw or Cardiff win tomorrow then a good set of results on Saturday afternoon. Possible but unlikely.
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Yes I forgot that the Chelsea v Norwich game followed our game at Arsenal.
But would you back Norwich on current form to win at Stamford Bridge?
So Sunday evening then.
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I think Norwich will lose both of their games.
Will Sunderland be able to win at least two of their last four games I doubt it. Cardiff have to win Tommorrow or they will surely be down. Villa have got Man City and Spurs still to play too both away.
I personally felt we would go down, after the Man Utd game but since then Mel has turned it around and we have started to score goals and although we should be in a much better position he has done a very good job in turning things around.
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I still think we need a point to be sure but I find it hard to believe that 3 of the 5 teams below us will get to 37 points which given our goal difference should see us safe on 36 points regardless.
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I still think we need a point to be sure but I find it hard to believe that 3 of the 5 teams below us will get to 37 points which given our goal difference should see us safe on 36 points regardless.
Agree with this. If Sunderland beat Cardiff today that is them gone. In addition, both Fulham & Norwich would have to win both of their remaining games to overtake us (assuming we don't get any more points) which is unlikely.
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Agree with this. If Sunderland beat Cardiff today that is them gone. In addition, both Fulham & Norwich would have to win both of their remaining games to overtake us (assuming we don't get any more points) which is unlikely.
The mathematical 38 points has Norwich winning both matches so 37 has got to be the real target (unless strange things start happening!)
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hoping sunderland win that puts Cardiff below us. I think Norwich might get one result but certainly not 2 so I reckon Norwich will finish below us. I still think villa will get one more result.
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Was one of the fans saying we would go down after Utd game, I officially take it back, we will stay up and deservedly so. Always backed Pepe and his record since coming has been good, didn't trust the players to pull it off but they have proved me wrong.
The suns shining, birds singing life's good!!
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As much as I hate everything about Chelsea, their win at Anfield today is good for us in 2 ways:
1) It keeps Man City interested in the title, so they'll still have everything to play for against Everton next Saturday. If Arsenal beat Newcastle tomorrow and Man City beat Everton on Saturday, Arsenal will already be certain of 4th place by the time they play us on Sunday and their focus will start to be on the FA Cup Final.
2) Chelsea are now only 2 points behind Liverpool and play Norwich at home next Sunday before Palace play Liverpool on the bank holiday Monday, so Chelsea's title hopes will definitely still be alive when they play Norwich. If Norwich don't win that game, they can't catch us.
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Why does only lost 3 in last 10 games sound better than won 3 in last 10 games ? Well done Pepe for silencing the doubters :D.
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It's over, we're safe. Enjoy rest of the season folks.
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It's over, we're safe. Enjoy rest of the season folks.
Personally, I won't be able to really relax till its mathematically 100% :-X
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Squeaky bums for the Villa if Fulham beat Palace and Sunderland beat us.....
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Squeaky bums for the Villa if Fulham beat Palace and Sunderland beat us.....
And for us!
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Squeaky bums for the Villa if Fulham beat Palace and Sunderland beat us.....
They have got to do something against Stoke first though.
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Think its virtually guaranteed that we'll stay up, would now like to see a bit more of Thievy, could be a good cheaper signing in the summer if he does well, looked relatively good so far I think. Like to see Sessegnon used further up the field, if we did that he could convert into a forward next season meaning we need to sign one less and also gives more game time to either Dorrans or Morrison. Now we are virtually safe it could be a good time for Mel to have a look at some new ideas.
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It's over, we're safe. Enjoy rest of the season folks.
No...and the players must not think like this. The fact that Fulham have 2 winnable games left means we need another point and the next 2 games for us are not easy.
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Think its virtually guaranteed that we'll stay up, would now like to see a bit more of Thievy, could be a good cheaper signing in the summer if he does well, looked relatively good so far I think. Like to see Sessegnon used further up the field, if we did that he could convert into a forward next season meaning we need to sign one less and also gives more game time to either Dorrans or Morrison. Now we are virtually safe it could be a good time for Mel to have a look at some new ideas.
Not sure we're comfy enough to start experimenting just yet, maybe if Saturdays results go our way.
Safety first.
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My thinking is that we aren't safe until it's mathematical !!!!
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I think we're out of reach for Cardiff & Norwich now, but Fulham and Sunderland have winnable games, including the one against us. A point at the SOL would see us safe I think.
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I think we're out of reach for Cardiff & Norwich now, but Fulham and Sunderland have winnable games, including the one against us. A point at the SOL would see us safe I think.
If I've worked it out right, a point anywhere will do as long as Norwich don't win both their last games.
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I think we're out of reach for Cardiff & Norwich now, but Fulham and Sunderland have winnable games, including the one against us. A point at the SOL would see us safe I think.
If Fulham and Norwich loose next Saturday then neither can catch us
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If Fulham and Norwich loose next Saturday then neither can catch us
Yep, that's what I'm working (ie hoping) upon before enjoying the Emirates on Sunday ! EXCEPT Norwich don't play until after us on Sunday :(
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If Fulham and Norwich loose next Saturday then neither can catch us
Given our far superior goal difference we can afford For both to draw and still be safe. Villa on the other hand... :D
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If Fulham and Norwich loose next Saturday then neither can catch us
Agreed, in fact if Fulham don't win next Saturday, they can't catch us, but they are playing a Stoke side who have nothing much to play for, & I could see them winning there.
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So many pluses in yesterdays game, Berahino showed what a class act he can be, Foster best form since we signed him,Dorrans superb game again, Jones most improved player in squad, Sessegnon improving every game,
no Ridgewell and the team spirit was great. I think we have enough points but also think we will finish the season with style now we have a bit of confidence, i say we will finish on 40 points .
Please give Pepe a Chance JP the atmosphere was brilliant yesterday imagine what it would be like if he had his own staff and a few of his own players.
Or we can always go back to falling asleep during the match.
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If Fulham and Norwich loose next Saturday then neither can catch us
Yeah your right. Fulham and Norwich have to win to catch us. A draw wont do anything.
I think we will be safe after saturday anyway. Cardiff cant catch us, the best i can see fulham getting is a draw at stoke and after today norwich will get spanked at chelsea
That will make us 100% safe
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Shame we gifted 4 points to the Vile. I've said all along that those points will keep them up and looks like they probably will. :(
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no chance we will win easy at sunderland
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no chance we will win easy at sunderland
Won't be easy, but we will win.
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So many pluses in yesterdays game, Berahino showed what a class act he can be, Foster best form since we signed him,Dorrans superb game again, Jones most improved player in squad, Sessegnon improving every game,
no Ridgewell and the team spirit was great. I think we have enough points but also think we will finish the season with style now we have a bit of confidence, i say we will finish on 40 points .
Please give Pepe a Chance JP the atmosphere was brilliant yesterday imagine what it would be like if he had his own staff and a few of his own players.
Or we can always go back to falling asleep during the match.
Everything about this post is spot on and the falling to sleep bit
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Shame we gifted 4 points to the Vile. I've said all along that those points will keep them up and looks like they probably will. :(
Didnt we help keep them up last season too
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Didnt we keep help them up last season too
Yes we did. >:(
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Didnt we help keep them up last season too
And the season before when Morrison scored a last minute equaliser against Bolton. 3 years now we've helped them stay up.
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If Fulham beat Stoke and we don't get anything at the backside then Sunderland's going to be a huge game if we don't want to take it to the last game of the season.
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If Fulham beat Stoke and we don't get anything at the backside then Sunderland's going to be a huge game if we don't want to take it to the last game of the season.
Sunderland will be looking to hammer us and close the GD gap if we're not safe by then, every goal would effectively count double between us (I think I'm getting a bit obssessed with this, I may have posted about it 3 times now :'()
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Can't really see Norwich beating a title chasing Chelsea away, ok Sunderland did it but Norwich look awful and Chelsea can still win the title. Stoke lost against Spurs at home but to be fair their home record has been fantastic, only 3 defeats at home all season. Maybe Fulham could nick a draw but even that would keep us up. Plus can you really see us losing our next 3 ? Nope.
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Cardiff can't catch us.
Norwich need to win both of their games and so do Fulham. Norwich we can surely rule out with their 2 games, especially as Chelsea now are back in the title race and will be wanting to win. It's possible Fulham can pick up 6 points but unlikely. I think we're already safe but 1 more point will confirm it. I think we can get a point at Arsenal, we've picked up results there before and have held our own all season away at the top teams.
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After sunday norwich will more then likely have lost and wont be able to catch us, cardiff cant catch us.
Now would you take a fulham win at stoke if villa lose against hull?
That would leave fulham 1 point behind villa going into the last game.
For us it would mean we would need 1 point to be safe out of our last 3 games
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Cardiff can't catch us.
Norwich need to win both of their games and so do Fulham. Norwich we can surely rule out with their 2 games, especially as Chelsea now are back in the title race and will be wanting to win. It's possible Fulham can pick up 6 points but unlikely. I think we're already safe but 1 more point will confirm it. I think we can get a point at Arsenal, we've picked up results there before and have held our own all season away at the top teams.
Yes you make a very valid point regarding holding our own away from home
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I think we will go into the Arsenal game with a bit more ease.I think we can get a draw.Not quite samba beach football but a good footballing display
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After sunday norwich will more then likely have lost and wont be able to catch us, cardiff cant catch us.
Now would you take a fulham win at stoke if villa lose against hull?
That would leave fulham 1 point behind villa going into the last game.
For us it would mean we would need 1 point to be safe out of our last 3 games
Nope, safety first. My heart can't take anymore.
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Don't start thinking about results that will put them down until we are safe.
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Don't start thinking about results that will put them down until we are safe.
I'm enjoying their discomfort. I know it's not over until the fat lady sings, but she's practising her scales in Witton right now.
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Our safety in the Premier League is paramount first and foremost.
What will happen though is they will not win another game this season. But neither will the teams below them thus keeping them up
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Our safety in the Premier League is paramount first and foremost.
What will happen though is they will not win another game this season. But neither will the teams below them thus keeping them up
Got the lottery numbers?
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our safety before Villa's relegation, definitely.
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I can't see Cardiff, Fulham or Norwich picking up enough points to get to 36.
Cardiff, unless they score a phenomenal amount of goals, can't catch us. They would also have to win both their last 2 games to overtake Villa. Cardiff have Newcastle (A) and Chelsea (H)
Fulham also need to win their last 2 to overtake us. They have the most 'winnable' games, against Stoke (A) and Palace (H). They could win 1 and draw 1 to have the same points as Villa, but their GD means they would have to win both to definitely get above them
Norwich need a draw and a win to get 36 points but their GD is too poor to affect us or Villa. They have Chelsea (A) and Arsenal (H).
That makes me think we're safe. I also think Villa are safe.
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Got the lottery numbers?
Ive got mine yes!! ;D
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As soon as Clarke was removed we never looked like going down.
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I can't see Cardiff, Fulham or Norwich picking up enough points to get to 36.
Cardiff, unless they score a phenomenal amount of goals, can't catch us. They would also have to win both their last 2 games to overtake Villa. Cardiff have Newcastle (A) and Chelsea (H)
Fulham also need to win their last 2 to overtake us. They have the most 'winnable' games, against Stoke (A) and Palace (H). They could win 1 and draw 1 to have the same points as Villa, but their GD means they would have to win both to definitely get above them
Norwich need a draw and a win to get 36 points but their GD is too poor to affect us or Villa. They have Chelsea (A) and Arsenal (H).
That makes me think we're safe. I also think Villa are safe.
Sunderland and Fulham are the teams we should be wary of. Both teams have good recent results. I think that Fulham are playing reasonably well at the moment and have winnable games still whilst Sunderland are on a roll.
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Sunderland and Fulham are the teams we should be wary of. Both teams have good recent results. I think that Fulham are playing reasonably well at the moment and have winnable games still whilst Sunderland are on a roll.
I think Fulham have had it to be honest, they really needed to beat Hull and after being 2 up then blowing the lead I think it will have knocked the fight out of them.
Sunderland are in a mini revival but they had one earlier in the season and then it fell apart when the expectation from their fans got too much. Even though they got 4 against Cardiff they were quite poor. The sending off helped them and also Cardiff were terrible.
I think at home the pressure to win will be too much and I expect us to take at least a point from them.
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Fulham
Norwich
Cardiff
Simples
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As soon as Clarke was removed we never looked like going down.
Totally agree.We were doomed otherwise
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Totally agree.We were doomed otherwise
I am sure some of you never travel away Stoke.Chelsea and Man Utd did we looked doomed then!
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I am sure some of you never travel away Stoke.Chelsea and Man Utd did we looked doomed then!
You would be wrong. Only missed two games all season. Chelsea away wasn't actually a great performance. Did a good job on a poor Yanited side but not the miracle result it had been hailed as. Failed to beat a toothless Stoke very much finding their feet under a new manager and playing style.
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I am sure some of you never travel away Stoke.Chelsea and Man Utd did we looked doomed then!
If the typical 'Clarke was just unlucky' balls is being touted again then yes we were doomed - he'd have carried on being really 'unlucky' and/or bad at managing.
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I am sure some of you never travel away Stoke.Chelsea and Man Utd did we looked doomed then!
Wasn't at Stoke but go to all other away games. did you see us against Norwich at home swansea, Southampton,Cardiff away to name a few.All unacceptable performances and results from a clueless manager not mentioning from Swansea away onwards the season before.How many points did Clarke get from November 2012 then.Without doubt he was lucky to be in a job from the start of this season.He should have gone at the end of the 5-5 game which Lukaku no doubt saved his job
If you want to watch uninspiring negative football then that's up to you
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Think I've got this right.
In Clarkes first 14 games of the season we won 3 drew 6 lost 5. In Mels 14 games so far we have won 3 drawn 6 lost 5.
The results might be the same but the football that we now play gives me more confidence than it would if Clarke was still here. Also Clarke started the season with a side that had finished 8th the previous season whereas Mel joined a side looking to survive.
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Think I've got this right.
In Clarkes first 14 games of the season we won 3 drew 6 lost 5. In Mels 14 games so far we have won 3 drawn 6 lost 5.
The results might be the same but the football that we now play gives me more confidence than it would if Clarke was still here. Also Clarke started the season with a side that had finished 8th the previous season whereas Mel joined a side looking to survive.
not forgetting Clarke had 2 pre seasons to get it right and a few quid to spend
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not forgetting Clarke had 2 pre seasons to get it right and a few quid to spend
True. Clarke was taking us down. Now it might not all be champagne and roses with Mel but we seem to heading upwards at least.
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No one can say for sure how things would have panned out under Clarke. However I think I had got to the point where I can honestly say it didn't matter either way because as we slid further into the mire the football became progressively worse. If we had survived then aside from more of the same what was there to look forward to? Another season of dogged retreat, thanks but no thanks.
I have long been of the opinion that it is better to be relegated and start afresh than grimly hang on to Premier Leagues status at all costs. Relegation under Clarke would have been a relief. However now it would be a massive disappointment because I think there is a real prospect of a better tomorrow.
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No one can say for sure how things would have panned out under Clarke. However I think I had got to the point where I can honestly say it didn't matter either way because as we slid further into the mire the football became progressively worse. If we had survived then aside from more of the same what was there to look forward to? Another season of dogged retreat, thanks but no thanks.
I have long been of the opinion that it is better to be relegated and start afresh than grimly hang on to Premier Leagues status at all costs. Relegation under Clarke would have been a relief. However now it would be a massive disappointment because I think there is a real prospect of a better tomorrow.
100% agree! I hate to be in the 'dog fight' at the end of the season! I would rather be either down and rebuilding, or comfortable and safe. I couldnt stand it if we were a sunderland style of team, just scaripng by at the end of the season each year with no progression
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Agree Standaman. There's no guarantee Clarke would have kept us up or sent us down but the majority of us are relieved that we didn't have to find out. The stats showing Clarke's and Mel's similar records but it's important to remember that Mel inherited a team lacking confidence and asked to change our playing philosophy too amongst other difficulties.
I was at Cardiff away and NEVER want to see us play like that again.
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That Shane Long goal to equalize on Saturday was a very valuable goal for us.
Wouldnt it be funny if Pete scored the winner for Stoke when they play Fulham.
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That Shane Long goal to equalize on Saturday was a very valuable goal for us.
Wouldnt it be funny if Pete scored the winner for Stoke when they play Fulham.
Even funnier if he got sent off
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Even funnier if he got sent off
Even funnier if he fell down a well and was never heard of again.
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Theres another option if fulham and norwich lose were safe, if cardiff win and villa lose,cardiff would be two points behind villa going into the last game. If sunderland beat man utd and drew against us that would mean its a straight shoot out between villa and cardiff for that last spot.
Cardiff do have chelsea at home last game though with villa at spurs
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I hope Fulham stay up, its the best awayday
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I hope Fulham stay up, its the best awayday
I dont, we never win, nowhere to park, beers sh*t. ;D
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I hope Fulham stay up, its the best awayday
no way... one less London team, the better
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no way... one less London team, the better
fantastic day out, never any trouble loads of pubs on the riverside and a nice park to stroll through. Very chilling indeed
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im really hoping Chelsea beat Norwich so we can have a stress free week. worst case scenario arsenal beat us and guarantee 4th and Norwich get a result at Chelsea leaving Norwich to play arsenal a week before the cup final and us needing to beat stoke. cmon Chelsea save me a week of continually looking at tables and fixtures!!
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im really hoping Chelsea beat Norwich so we can have a stress free week.
You can have a stress-free week if Norwich draw at Chelsea as well! As it is, Chelsea have a big prize to play for, so they'll be all guns blazing to try to win the game.
Of course, if we get any points at all at Arsenal today, you can have a stress-free Sunday afternoon/evening to add to your stress-free week!
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The backside have 4th place confirmed as Man C beat Everton - what that will do to their play is anyone's guess however. Chelsea need to win so will be all out against Norwich. I think yesterday's results were great news for us.
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still goaless at Chelsea. really hoping Norwich don't sneak it or we are back in the pooh!!
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still goaless at Chelsea. really hoping Norwich don't sneak it or we are back in the poo!!
Even if they did they would still have to beat Arsenal and hope we got nothing from Sunderland and Stoke, relax, we're safe.
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We'll be staying up on goal difference at least
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We'll be staying up on goal difference at least
ok ok I will relax now. a draw between us and sunderland will see Norwich relegated because of there goal difference. time for pepe and Jeremy to sit down and decide whats going on so we can get sorted this summer.
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We've done it!!! Boing Boing and thank feck for that!
Stick with Pepe, start the signing process as soon as possible and lets look forward to a far more productive season!
Well done to Pepe and all the players who have dug in and tried in a season where nearly everything went wrong!!! Doom and glum merchants, you can use these thread to apologise now
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It still puts a bit of pressure on Sunderland though and if they slip up against us then it's down to the final game. Will Sunderland play for the draw on Wednesday now?
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Well there we are, unless we think Norwich can overturn a 19 goal deficit in their goal difference, we can start planning for next season as a Premier League club. It looked bleak when we were in the bottom 3 briefly, but some good wins since then have done the business. We can now enjoy the final 2 games with no pressure on us.
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Quite relived after this Weekend's results. We have almost done it, it has been a very tough few weeks for us but we have just about managed to stay up. I do think we will go to Sunderland and get a result would love us to get to the fort point mark too.
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Its done and dusted. Obviously its possible mathematically but a 19 goal turnaround means its almost impossible.
We need to lose 6-0 Wednesday and 6-0 against Stoke means Norwich have to beat Arsenal 8-0. ;D
We have limped over the line in what can only be described as the most inept and frustrating season since the dark days of the early 90s.
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Yep, thank flip for that we've limped over the line.
Time to rebuild now, been a miserable season.
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A bad season which could have been a whole lot worse. We need a complete restructure with Kiely and Downing being shipped out and Mel being allowed to bring his people and his players in. I am so relieved that we have squeaked past the line, but as far as people talking about where are the doom and gloom merchants now, well just look at where we are and our results this season. We have gone backwards. We are fortunate to stay up and to get the chance to put right the problems we have experienced. Unless we give this squad a thorough re-haul, then we can expect the same or worse next year. All in all though, I am over the moon with this weekends results.
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The 3 worse teams have finally revealed themselves take a bow Norwich, Fulham and Cardiff. We are safe but we will survive by a pretty thin margin admittedly at the end of a season when every thing that could go wrong has gone wrong. Things to have to improve next year.
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Get Mel signed up and lets just be happy it's not us going down :)
Funny day as we've lost yet it feels good as we're staying up :)
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Thank God all but safe, now let the pepe revolution begin Mr peace if you have got the you know whats between those legs
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I know that we all have an opinion, but there was a chap who phoned WM and called Pepe Mel a muppet and stated that if we have kept Clarke in charge we would have been safe well before now.
I completely disagree, we would have been relegated by March under Clarke with the negative tactics he employed. Is this bloke aware of Clarke's record in the 2013 calendar year.
And the so called "muppet" has done the job of keeping us in the premier league.
Enough said.
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It would be typical Albion to make it interesting by getting thrashed in the last two matches.......lol
On a serious note, I am mightily relieved that Norwich didn't grab a late winner, i have never been so nervous watching a non-albion game as I was today.
Not sure what the future is now, massive changes are needed and I doubt that Peace will agree to the funds that Mel needs to completely change the team to play the way he wants to play. For a club of Albions size, it is a gamble to give a new-ish and mainly unproven manager a large amount of money to spend, but it is what they need to do.
It will be interesting, but for now we can relax and hopefully draw a line on one of the most disappointing, disheartening, frustrating and disillusioning season for probably twenty years.
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I am so happy! :D
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Firstly I admit to getting it wrong - I voted that we would go down.
Secondly people must remember that 10 years ago we would have been happy with a season like this. To me the aim is still to stay up. We have done it so job done.
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Despite the fact that we are pretty much safe. Major changes need to be addressed over the summer the main too for me better strikers and full backs. Overall the season has been frustrating and on a lot of occasions very disappointing I really feel that we shouldn't have been in the situation that we have put ourselves in this season. However I am pretty happy for Pepe Mel that he is going to keep us up. This summer shall be very interesting to see what happens.
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We are safe bar a true miracle, The main thing now is sorting out who they are letting go, As it's been a failure of a season as regards too signings, We have ageing players who need to move on, Stale players who have been there far too long, Loan players to go back, And average players who need replacing.
I hope we stick with mel first & foremost.
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This season had relegation written all over it with all the on and off field problems we've had. The positive for me is that we've somehow managed to stay up despite all this. This summer is absolutely massive for us. Get it wrong like we did last summer and I don't think we will get over the line.
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Didn't enjoy listening to the last 20 with Redmond on the pitch... but is he one for us maybe??
Safe now, can look forward to next season... more of the same, I expect!
One other thought, do we thank Steve Clarke just a little bit for the dour displays that at least kept our GD down??
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Still buzzing.. the stress from the last few weeks was unbearable. Glad its as good as over now, I hope we are not going to be in the same position next season.. going to the last few games.
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Still buzzing.. the stress from the last few weeks was unbearable. Glad its as good as over now, I hope we are not going to be in the same position next season.. going to the last few games.
leave it out !!! If you wanted an easy life you wouldn't follow the baggies ;D
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This season had relegation written all over it with all the on and off field problems we've had. The positive for me is that we've somehow managed to stay up despite all this. This summer is absolutely massive for us. Get it wrong like we did last summer and I don't think we will get over the line.
That is so true. From day one we looked a clueless, toothless team and we have to grateful that we did just about survive.
As I've said many times, I'm a fan of Pepe, and I hope that now JP will back him, Pepe will stay and next season we see a return to attractive, attacking, winning ways.
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I actually think Downing and Kiely deserve some credit for getting those vital 6 points over our traditionally bad Christmas period , a good effort considering a few our of squad didn't seem to like the Clarke sacking.
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More relieved than happy we stayed up as this season has generally been a mess.
We should have done much better both on and off the pitch.
That said, I always thougth we would have enough BUT this club of ours like to put us through it.
The moments I wavered:
Cardiff away - sat on the coach outside the ground thinking we could drop the way Clarke has us sent up after a dire negative performance.
Fulham at home - so poor against a side destined to drop that probably outplayed us on the day.
Cardiff home - Shocking double throw away after some great attacking play in parts against very poor opponents.
Spurs home - brilliant start BUT most of us never felt easy at three up and then to fail to hold on so late on yet again felt totally deflated as a major opportunity went begging.
Still, let's hope Peace and Co. have learnt valuable lessons as they dissect want went on, not just last season BUT since the start of 2013 when the real rot set.
We now have another chance and have another season of extraordinary money flowing into the Club - lets hope we can start to move forward again.
Heres to mid-table mediocrity but playing decent attacking football next season!
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I actually think Downing and Kiely deserve some credit for getting those vital 6 points over our traditionally bad Christmas period , a good effort considering a few our of squad didn't seem to like the Clarke sacking.
True and I think they were given credit at the time but going forward we needed a new head coach with fresh ideas to move us on.
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So if we conceed say 6 tomorrow and another 6 on sunday how many would Norwich need to beat Arsenal :D
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So if we conceed say 6 tomorrow and another 6 on sunday how many would Norwich need to beat Arsenal :D
8
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8
still a tall order then
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still a tall order then
Ever so slightly :)
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No doubt about it we have East Anglia on our side tomorrow