WestBrom.com
Off Topic => General Football & Sports => Topic started by: BaggieBirdRus on June 09, 2018, 04:42:44 PM
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/06/09/west-brom-move-sign-bobby-reid-romaine-sawyers-prepare-championship/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw
est Bromwich Albion have launched a £10m bid to sign Bristol City attacker Bobby Reid and Brentford’s Romaine Sawyers as the club prepares for the Championship.
Darren Moore, Albion’s head coach, has offered around £7m for Reid and is hopeful of agreeing a fee with City this month.
Reid scored 19 goals in the league last season and was a key figure as Lee Johnson reached the Carabao Cup semi-finals.
Sawyers, a former West Brom academy graduate, is also high on Moore’s list of targets with a £3m bid understood to be imminent.
West Brom are determined to back Moore as they aim for a swift return to the Premier League.
Romaine Sawyers - West Brom have made a £3m bid for their former academy player Romaine Sawyers (right)
West Brom have made a £3m bid for their former academy player Romaine Sawyers (right) CREDIT: JOHN WALTON/PA
Jonny Evans was the first departure last week, following relegation into the second tier, after completing a £3m move to Leicester.
The futures of Jay Rodriguez, Salomon Rondon and Jake Livermore are also uncertain, with a number of top-flight clubs ready to test Albion’s resolve.
James McClean, the Republic of Ireland international, is a target for Stoke manager Gary Rowett.
But Moore wants to keep the core of his squad together and Albion are poised to open talks with defender Craig Dawson over a new deal.
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Interesting that we are trying to resign a player we have previously released. Plays in a good footballing Brentford side as does Bobby Reid so some sign there’s the way DM wants to play football
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Another player who I would love to have. £3m is very cheap so I would expect that to push to £5.
He is from B'ham, so I would expect that he wants the move back.
Him and Bobby Reid for anything around the £12m mark is very good business. We will get that back on selling just one player.
Onwards and upwards hopefully...
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Does everyone think Bobby Reid will be a steady goal scorer then after last season? He got 7 in 89 games before last season.
Sawyers has got 6 in 85 games. Now i'm 100% not knocking signings as its down to how they fit into the team and what Moore wants. I do worry about the Sawyers, although i've not seen enough of him to comment. What kind of player has he turned into?
Wiki makes this comment "One of the standout players at Griffin Park this season with his touch and passing range impressing many"
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Does everyone think Bobby Reid will be a steady goal scorer then after last season? He got 7 in 89 games before last season.
Sawyers has got 6 in 85 games. Now i'm 100% not knocking signings as its down to how they fit into the team and what Moore wants. I do worry about the Sawyers, although i've not seen enough of him to comment. What kind of player has he turned into?
I think before this season Reid played in midfield whereas he moved to his natural CF position hence why his goal scoring record has got better
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Very excited by this, Sawyers wasn’t given much of a chance when with us but made his mark at Walsall and Brentford. Looks a very tidy player! I wonder how many academy graduates could be in and around our first team next year if Sawyers is to sign?
I’ve missed the championship transfer windows! Let the rebuild begin
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Has Reid been playing just behind the striker this season aswell as up top on his own?
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Exact kind of player we should be after - good age, above all else a technically talented player - will allow us to move away from our current style with absolutely no imagination in our build up.
Very happy with Moore's targets, Reid and Sawyers are exactly what we need to be moving towards.
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Just what we need. Reading about him he is being praised for his touch, passing and link up play between the midfield and the strikers.
Crying out for a player like this.
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Walsall supporting pal of mine said Sawyers has the ability, very good player. Obviously overlooked when he was here or a later bloomer. Either way, £3m is a steal, maybe not for someone we let go, but least it's not £90m like pogba ha.
Whether he could cut it in the prem is a different kettle of fish.
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A 5'9 midfielder...Pulis must be long gone :o
I wonder if Moore knew him as a kid so that's why he's gone for him.
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Does everyone think Bobby Reid will be a steady goal scorer then after last season? He got 7 in 89 games before last season.
Sawyers has got 6 in 85 games. Now i'm 100% not knocking signings as its down to how they fit into the team and what Moore wants. I do worry about the Sawyers, although i've not seen enough of him to comment. What kind of player has he turned into?
Wiki makes this comment "One of the standout players at Griffin Park this season with his touch and passing range impressing many"
. Don't know what you want ? Would rather have a team of hungry player, than the the likes of the Billy Big Bo***cks we had last season just taking the money.
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Still only 26. He was voted Brentford player's player of the year last season so that would suggest he's good/popular in the dressing room too which surely fits in with Moore's "we not me" philosophy.
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Romaine Sawyers is a play maker Brentford typically use him just behind the striker in the 10 role. If there is a criticism of him it is that he should get a few more goals from that position. He is the poor man's Nacer Chadli which is reflected in the price.
I am happy for us to sign him. However there are a couple of points that are worth noting here. Firstly if we are going to lump the ball down the channels there no point and we could not find a player less suited to that approach. Secondly as I pointed in the Reid thread both the players we are currently targeting play in the same position although they are quite different players. If we are bringing players in their prime years to the club we have to assume the plan to start them and I'm quite sure how that works.
Jimmy Shan would have been at the club when Sawyers signed his first contract and he would have in the academy when Darren Moore was here as a player so he is plainly known to the coaching staff so clearly will fit in with their ethos.
Finally if we are targeting Sawyers and Reid it would seem unlikely that we will retain Morrison.
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To be honest his lack of goals is a big concern for me. That aside it's a good all round deal to be honest. I'd like to think he's not going to be the starting option at 10 and perhaps Big Dave sees him as someone he could drop deeper possibly.
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To be honest his lack of goals is a big concern for me. That aside it's a good all round deal to be honest. I'd like to think he's not going to be the starting option at 10 and perhaps Big Dave sees him as someone he could drop deeper possibly.
He has never been a heavy goal scorer but nor has Morrison. Bringing players into the game who do score from out wide and the striker(s) is a vital contribution.
Potentially I see Sawyers' passing ability and Reid's energy pace and finishing ability as being a potentially potent combination. The trick is how to work them into the same line up.
I cannot see him being effective in a two man central midfield unless we can find an absolute beast to play alongside him. Brentford have occasionally lined up win a 4-1-4-1 which could potentially accommodate both Sawyers and Reid behind the lone striker. We could of course play Reid up front on his own but that really is committing to play the ball on the ground through the midfield how wonderful would that be? Alas I don't see Moore going down that route.
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He has never been a heavy goal scorer but nor has Morrison. Bringing players into the game who do score from out wide and the striker(s) is a vital contribution.
And Morrison scored more goals (5) in 31 Premiership games last season than Sawyers did in 48 games in all competitions (3) Sawyers in the past two season in English football has mustered a grand total of 8 goals and 12 assists in 96 games
I'm not one who totally advocates using statistics as a yardstick but in my opinion it's such a crucial role that I want someone who we can get excited by not, no offence to Sawyers, a £3m option from Brentford who hasn't lit the league up. I'd be honestly very disappointed if we went into the campaign with Bobby Reid and Romain Sawyers as our 9 & 10.
He could play deeper, he'd just to adjust the disciplines of his game. Could be that he wouldn't want too either. But if his passing ability is that good then I think he's possibly viewed by DM as the dictator of the play from deep.
I think 10's and I think Koumas. I want that sort of creative maestro who is an all rounder.
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Romaine Sawyers is a play maker Brentford typically use him just behind the striker in the 10 role. If there is a criticism of him it is that he should get a few more goals from that position. He is the poor man's Nacer Chadli which is reflected in the price.
I am happy for us to sign him. However there are a couple of points that are worth noting here. Firstly if we are going to lump the ball down the channels there no point and we could not find a player less suited to that approach. Secondly as I pointed in the Reid thread both the players we are currently targeting play in the same position although they are quite different players. If we are bringing players in their prime years to the club we have to assume the plan to start them and I'm quite sure how that works.
Jimmy Shan would have been at the club when Sawyers signed his first contract and he would have in the academy when Darren Moore was here as a player so he is plainly known to the coaching staff so clearly will fit in with their ethos.
Finally if we are targeting Sawyers and Reid it would seem unlikely that we will retain Morrison.
Brentford were playing Sawyers as one of the centre midfielders in a 433 every time I looked last season. However, he was the most advanced of the three and had the most license to get forward.
He has a very languid style, but has the talent to get away with it, reminds me of a midfield version of Berbatov. Complete contrast to Bobby Reid who is all-action with a seemingly limitless engine. Not sure how we fit both into the team, but won't even bother thinking about it until we know whether JRod will be here or not. 46 game season so we need options to rotate, I'm sure both Sawyers and Reid would get plenty of game time even if we sign both and keep JRod.
If these are the type of players we are targeting then I'm very pleased with the way we appear to be going about transfers.
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Being linked with Sawyers and Reid gives me great optimism for the style of football Darren Moore is going to try and get us playing.
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how many no10's do we need!! must mean that Chadli is definitely going, otherwise we will end up like Everton who did not know which one to play!!
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I'm not overly keen on a Sawyers return.
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I'm not overly keen on a Sawyers return.
Please expand your reasons.
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I agree with Jacko. He has clearly worked hard to recover from his early career rejection (he left Albion having had a disastrous few loan spells where fans really didn't rate him), so it suggests he has a good attitude and will to improve, but he is mid twenties and has only just been able to get back to the championship, despite spending his whole career in the pro game.
I feel Sawyers isn't quite the player to push us on, instead potentially being at his level here.
Also feel a bit of a sigh paying potebtially 5 mil for a player who we have already spent milliond developing from 8 years of age and then releasing on a free, only to sign him again.
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I agree with Jacko. He has clearly worked hard to recover from his early career rejection (he left Albion having had a disastrous few loan spells where fans really didn't rate him), so it suggests he has a good attitude and will to improve, but he is mid twenties and has only just been able to get back to the championship, despite spending his whole career in the pro game.
I feel Sawyers isn't quite the player to push us on, instead potentially being at his level here.
Also feel a bit of a sigh paying potebtially 5 mil for a player who we have already spent milliond developing from 8 years of age and then releasing on a free, only to sign him again.
I'm not sure you can say his loan spells were disastrous as he was only on loan at Port Vale and Shrewsbury for 1 month each, in fact Shrewsbury then extended his loan until the end of the season. Walsall signed him from us after his loan spell there.
I agree with your point about paying for a player we previously had anyway but sometimes players develop better in a different environment and Dean Smith seems to have been able to get something out of Romaine Sawyers at both Walsall and Brentford.
Like you I get the feeling that the Championship is his level but that's where we will be for at least next season.
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I'm not sure you can say his loan spells were disastrous as he was only on loan at Port Vale and Shrewsbury for 1 month each, in fact Shrewsbury then extended his loan until the end of the season. Walsall signed him from us after his loan spell there.
I agree with your point about paying for a player we previously had anyway but sometimes players develop better in a different environment and Dean Smith seems to have been able to get something out of Romaine Sawyers at both Walsall and Brentford.
Like you I get the feeling that the Championship is his level but that's where we will be for at least next season.
I think that's the key regarding our recruitment. I'd sooner see us assemble a squad of more than capable players at that level. As opposed to worrying if they can step up to a league we're not even in. Unfortunately for Sawyers, as I've said unless we view him as a CM to dictate play, I just fail to get excited about his ability as a 10.
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Not even the best midfielder at Brentford.
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Not even the best midfielder at Brentford.
But the big question is, with all the likely movement and the fact it was and has been a stagnant area of the field for us would he improve our midfield?
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But the big question is, with all the likely movement and the fact it was and has been a stagnant area of the field for us would he improve our midfield?
The one question I asked myself is would I want him starting at 10 for us? Answer was no. Genuinely uninspiring.
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Maybe it is Sawyers or Reid?
Falloutboy is not happy with any possible signing? Who do you want FOB?
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Maybe it is Sawyers or Reid?
Falloutboy is not happy with any possible signing? Who do you want FOB?
Wolves' third team looking at his post on the suggestions thread :P
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Maybe it is Sawyers or Reid?
Falloutboy is not happy with any possible signing? Who do you want FOB?
As I've just said elsewhere, Woods would be a much better signing if we're looking at Brentford players.
The fact is we seem to be looking at obvious signings, like Reid who is coming off the back of a good season, or Sawyers who we know about because he was in our academy. Maybe we should be looking at different options instead, including using the cheaper foreign markets. Granted the rules are different in the Championship regarding home grown players, but that doesn't prohibit their use.
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Wolves' third team looking at his post on the suggestions thread :P
Most of those players are decent in the Championship with the potential for growth, and unlike Bobby Reid, wouldn't cost the Earth. We don't want to end up another Villa, splashing out over the odds on overrated Championship tat (Hourihane, Kodjia, etc) and getting into difficulty later.
Besides, I think Moore's strength is probably coaching younger players, and all of those would play into that.
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Matt Wilson has just provided a update on this. He says Moore will move for Sawyer if Chadli leaves this summer which is very plausible considering he has a release clause. MW continues to say Moore wants Chadli to stay but should he move on he wants Sawyers to replace him in the central attacking midfield role. I can't see a gifted player like Chadli sticking around in the championship.
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Matt Wilson has just provided a update on this. He says Moore will move for Sawyer if Chadli leaves this summer which is very plausible considering he has a release clause. MW continues to say Moore wants Chadli to stay but should he move on he wants Sawyers to replace him in the central attacking midfield role. I can't see a gifted player like Chadli sticking around in the championship.
I'd like him and I can see us signing him, but as the main option as an attacking midfielder I don't think I'd be happy. Considering he'd only cost £4-5m and we need more options for a 46 game season I was hoping we'd sign him regardless of whether Chadli goes.
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Keeper we signed was a positive but with the three old age pensioners looking to impress Moore this transfer window could be under whelming. Hope Darren knows what he's doing with regards to transfers or is he being left short by owners?
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Sawyers has just started following WBA and Sam Johnstone on Twitter. Could be absolutely nothing but the same happened with Barnes a couple of days ago
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Sawyers has just started following WBA and Sam Johnstone on Twitter. Could be absolutely nothing but the same happened with Barnes a couple of days ago
He has been following the WBA account since he was a player here. If you look at follow lists on the twitter phone app it will show followers you share first on the list so it looks like they are recent, so if you are following WBA and Sam Johnstone yourself it will make them appear like recent follows for him. If you look on a laptop or PC it shows them in order and he followed West Brom long before he followed Brentford, so don't read too much into that.
Also bear in mind Sam Johnstone was on loan at Walsall while Romain was a player there.
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Seeing as nobody has posted anything new on this topic yet....
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11698/11768230/west-bromwich-albion-remain-in-talks-for-romaine-sawyers-after-brentford-reject-opening-bid
Bid rejected apparently.
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John Percy
#wba are hoping to make Brentford midfielder Romaine Sawyers their next signing. Would cost around £3m. A deal could progress in the next few days but other clubs are interested
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Cheap by todays standards.
Bring him home!
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Should have signed him last season instead of wasting wages on Morrison and Hoolahan. I reckon this one will get done around £3m, again a good price. He's 27 now so no real room for improvement but he's a classy Championship midfielder.
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Should have signed him last season instead of wasting wages on Morrison and Hoolahan. I reckon this one will get done around £3m, again a good price. He's 27 now so no real room for improvement but he's a classy Championship midfielder.
If we could get him for £3m in my opinion a real steal.
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Should have signed him last season instead of wasting wages on Morrison and Hoolahan. I reckon this one will get done around £3m, again a good price. He's 27 now so no real room for improvement but he's a classy Championship midfielder.
Would have cost double last season.
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Brentford fans seem pretty upset at the thought of him leaving, be a cracking signing for 3 million this and very smart business. With him & Krovinovic in the middle of the park we might look like a coherent team that can pass & move next season.
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Exactly the signing we need and exactly the player we needed so desperately last season.
A class act in this league.
A bit of “Pogba†style to him though, could be deemed lazy in the games we don’t win but superb when he’s on form.
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Would really hope to get him so we can then see a potential midfield three of Ajayi, Sawyers and Harper/Field/Brunt. Ajayi being in midfield is reliant on us signing Holgate as a CB or another CB.
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Listening to the E and S podcast today, Matt Wilson seemed a bit underwhelmed by the idea of getting Sawyers. He said he thinks he is a good mid table championship player but has his doubts that he is a top championship player.
I tend to agree, as Brentford have sold a number of good players the last few years, and yet never seem to get into the playoffs. If Sawyers has been a constant, it makes me think that MIGHT be his ceiling.
My personal choice would be to look abroad for a player in that mould, I still don't believe we are exploiting the options available abroad.
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Listening to the E and S podcast today, Matt Wilson seemed a bit underwhelmed by the idea of getting Sawyers. He said he thinks he is a good mid table championship player but has his doubts that he is a top championship player.
I tend to agree, as Brentford have sold a number of good players the last few years, and yet never seem to get into the playoffs. If Sawyers has been a constant, it makes me think that MIGHT be his ceiling.
My personal choice would be to look abroad for a player in that mould, I still don't believe we are exploiting the options available abroad.
The reason Brentford don't make the play-offs is because they usually sell their prize players and cash in before replacing them for profit.
For instance if they didn't sell Hogan, they wouldn't have Maupay. They are the epitome of a selling club and it seems a good business model for their owners however I wouldn't put their lack of promotion down to Romaine Sawyers, if anything he would be another success story being profited upon.
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The reason Brentford don't make the play-offs is because they usually sell their prize players and cash in before replacing them for profit.
For instance if they didn't sell Hogan, they wouldn't have Maupay. They are the epitome of a selling club and it seems a good business model for their owners however I wouldn't put their lack of promotion down to Romaine Sawyers, if anything he would be another success story being profited upon.
Oh i'm not blaming him, but if they aren't making the play offs with all of these fine players then it begs the question if it is because their core squad is that of a mid table championship side.
He could be a hit, and I like his style of play (have done since he was ours the first time), but i'm not sure if he takes our team to the next level.
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Oh i'm not blaming him, but if they aren't making the play offs with all of these fine players then it begs the question if it is because their core squad is that of a mid table championship side.
He could be a hit, and I like his style of play (have done since he was ours the first time), but i'm not sure if he takes our team to the next level.
They often sell players mid-season in January. They lack ambition to be anything other than a selling club, but they have a fantastic recruitment record.
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Everything to date has made sense in that there is an obvious clear role for everyone we have bought in. This makes less sense we have bought in Krovinovic as an advanced playmaker which is the role that Sawyers would fill. I find it difficult to see how both end up on the pitch at the same time and as such I feel a little uncomfortable in hiring a duplicate when there are still priorities outstanding e.g. Second Striker and Left Footed wide player.
Personally I like Sawyers other things being equal I would be happy signing him. I find Wilson's comments a litte odd Ajayi has never played at a bigger club than Rotherham who have just been relegated and would be happy to be described as a mid table championship club yet he is positively gushing about his signing whereas Sawyers who has played at a higher level for longer is "mid table championship level"
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I think Wilson is coming from the angle that Ajayi has looked head and shoulders above his Rotherham team mates and that has the potential to be a top championship player, where as Sawyers just seems to fit in at Brentford and doesn't seem to really stand out in their midfield.
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We need a couple of players who are able to take the ball on the half turn, and can pick a pass.
With Morrison leaving with Hoolahan, those were the only two 'playmakers' we had last year (not including Barnes/Phillips etc) we have brought in Filip and Sawyers would give us another option.
Again at the price being quoted its a bit of a low risk signing. He will already know the club aswell so you would hope that would reduce the 'settling in' time.
I would be happy with this signing, not only do we need to improve the 1st team, but we also need options from the bench and Romaine would cover both of those.
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I'd sooner go and get the lad from Coventry tbh.
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I don't usually disagree with Standaman but i don't feel Krovinovic and Sawyers are similar players. Granted i've only seen highlights of the Croat but it looks like he shines in and around the final third and the box whereas Sawyers seems to play a little further down the pitch and is more of a steadying and calming influence on a team, linking defence to attacks.
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this signing if happens i will be really happy with
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Apparently Leeds are now in for him too. Not surprised given the low fee, can see a few teams being interested.
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Worth having a look at the bladesanalytics twitter account. It mainly deals in Sheff Utd but is a top football analytics twitter account.
Basically goes against my Sawyers take, and says he would be the bargain of the summer if we sign him for 2.5 million. He believes he creates more chances than any other player in the championship.
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A midfield trio of Ajayi (ball wining DM who can shoot and pass), Sawyers (Box to box, able to dictate play) and Kroninovic (advanced playmaker able to unlock the final third) excites me and I believe would be well balanced unlike our centre midfield of the last few seasons.
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You can add Harper into that mix aswell. Its a midfield that on paper does exactly what its meant to do and very balanced.
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I think Sawyers coming back would be a brilliant bit of business at 3m
We need a side of players that are hungry to go up and Sawyers fits that bill.
He has also turned into an excellent midfielder
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Worth having a look at the bladesanalytics twitter account. It mainly deals in Sheff Utd but is a top football analytics twitter account.
Basically goes against my Sawyers take, and says he would be the bargain of the summer if we sign him for 2.5 million. He believes he creates more chances than any other player in the championship.
Saw that thread this morning and does show how important he was to the Brentford set up.
Last season he was deployed as more of a central midfielder as opposed to a 'number 10' yet still completed the most 'dangerous' passes in the league based on his passing stats.
Does seem a bit of a coup for the price tag. Also saw another journalist this morning state that Sawyers is pushing for a return 'home' to the Hawthorns. Does seem like he will come easily - just a case of sorting the fee with Bretford.
Can see us doing a deal at 2.5million plus add ons taking it to 3million based on promotion etc.
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If the press reports are to be believed he fancy's a move back here.
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Saw that thread this morning and does show how important he was to the Brentford set up.
Last season he was deployed as more of a central midfielder as opposed to a 'number 10' yet still completed the most 'dangerous' passes in the league based on his passing stats.
Does seem a bit of a coup for the price tag. Also saw another journalist this morning state that Sawyers is pushing for a return 'home' to the Hawthorns. Does seem like he will come easily - just a case of sorting the fee with Bretford.
Can see us doing a deal at 2.5million plus add ons taking it to 3million based on promotion etc.
Leeds are quoted to be looking to hijack the deal. But Sawyers is said to welcome a move to bring him back home .Fingers crossed on this one.
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Worth having a look at the bladesanalytics twitter account. It mainly deals in Sheff Utd but is a top football analytics twitter account.
Basically goes against my Sawyers take, and says he would be the bargain of the summer if we sign him for 2.5 million. He believes he creates more chances than any other player in the championship.
https://twitter.com/Blades_analytic/status/1153567781402685440
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Almost nothing would please me more than beating Leeds to any player, cheating, jumped up 2nd Division side with little history until 20 - 30 years ago :-X
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Sawyer's is the creative spark we were missing in the middle last year, he plays football the right way. Not sure how Slaven will slot him in but he offers something different to Brunt, Harper, Barry, Livermore etc.
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Sawyer's is the creative spark we were missing in the middle last year, he plays football the right way. Not sure how Slaven will slot him in but he offers something different to Brunt, Harper, Barry, Livermore etc.
Even I offer something different from Brunt and Livermoe
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Even I offer something different from Brunt and Livermoe
Expect a PM from Jacko ;D
Seriously, I hope the Sawyers move does come off, and if we bag Periera as well then I would say that that Dowling and co deserve a lot of credit.
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Almost nothing would please me more than beating Leeds to any player, cheating, jumped up 2nd Division side with little history until 20 - 30 years ago :-X
No fan of Leeds mate but they had one of the best footballing sides this country has ever produced back in the mid 60's to 70's, right up until Revie was appointed to the England job
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Almost nothing would please me more than beating Leeds to any player, cheating, jumped up 2nd Division side with little history until 20 - 30 years ago :-X
Showing your age there mate the 1970's were 40 years ago, horrible isn't it !
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Yorkshire reporter on twitter stating the rumours that Leeds are interest in Sawyers are 'wide of the mark.'
Could give us a clear run at him now.
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I don't dismiss the importance of a high pass completion rate, but according to the stats. he failed to score even once last season in 46 games.
I think we are going to have a goalscoring problem, as things stand.
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I don't dismiss the importance of a high pass completion rate, but according to the stats. he failed to score even once last season in 46 games.
I think we are going to have a goalscoring problem, as things stand.
I think the last 3 words of your post needs to be taken into consideration, we have 5 loans available still and only really spent the Rondon money, should still be enough left in the bank to get a goalscorer, I still think the Charlie Austin deal has legs in it but we will see......
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No fan of Leeds mate but they had one of the best footballing sides this country has ever produced back in the mid 60's to 70's, right up until Revie was appointed to the England job
I'm with Halifax on this. Leeds brought alot of what is bad into the modern game, in terms of timewasting, cheating and negative play. I think the rules stopping passes back to the goalkeeper were changed as a result.
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i'd say we've already got terms agreed with him it's just sorting out the terms between us and brentford now
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I'm with Halifax on this. Leeds brought alot of what is bad into the modern game, in terms of timewasting, cheating and negative play. I think the rules stopping passes back to the goalkeeper were changed as a result.
Except now its called 'game management'
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I'm with Halifax on this. Leeds brought alot of what is bad into the modern game, in terms of timewasting, cheating and negative play. I think the rules stopping passes back to the goalkeeper were changed as a result.
And one of their greatest exponents of their style of play. proved to be one of our best managers
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Why are we chatting about Leeds
Sawyers ?? Is he coming
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Dont know how true but deal agreed with Brentford at around £3 million
https://www.westlondonsport.com/brentford/deal-agreed-for-bees-star-to-join-west-brom
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Was just about to say the same Hunnington. They seeeeem reliable but i'll wait for somebody else to confirm first.
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according to this deal done
https://www.westlondonsport.com/brentford/deal-agreed-for-bees-star-to-join-west-brom
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https://twitter.com/SkySportsLyall/status/1154480060658790400 (https://twitter.com/SkySportsLyall/status/1154480060658790400)
A legitimate journalist has said we've agreed £3 mill and a medical for tomorrow.
Happy days :-*
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Inclined to believe it. Author is Lyall Scott and he works for sky sports. Sky are now reporting it.
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On Sky
West Brom have agreed a fee with Brentford to sign Romaine Sawyers, according to Sky sources.
Sky Sports News understands the deal to be in the region of £3m, and the midfielder is set to undergo a medical with the Baggies on Friday.
Celtic had been one of a number of other clubs interested in signing the 27-year-old, who has just one year left on his contract at Griffin Park.
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Yes yes yes!!
Huge! I'm loving these signings. Get a CB now so Ajayi can play midfield, Perreira and another striker. Never bloody pleased are we?!
It's been a good week, 4 permanent signings.
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a centre half will turn up ;)
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a centre half will turn up ;)
What's with your suggestive responses?
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He seems keen to come back ‘home’, maybe he thinks he’s got unfinished business and a bit of a point to prove.
At that price in the market and with how he is on the ball (something we lack) then 3mil is a bargain, thankfully he’s now in the last year of his contract.
Hats off to Dowling, we were rumoured to have been interested last summer and were quoted 10/12milion, so to get it done at 3 is good work.
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Great news. One of the best forward passers in the division. He gives a new dimension to the midfield. Just get a CB and a goal scorer and we'll be looking solid
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He seems keen to come back ‘home’, maybe he thinks he’s got unfinished business and a bit of a point to prove.
At that price in the market and with how he is on the ball (something we lack) then 3mil is a bargain.
Hats off to Dowling, we were rumoured to have been interested last summer and were quoted 10/12milion, so to get it done at 3 is good work.
Not sure that's down to Dowling though more the length of time left on contract
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Seeing that we are searching for new recruits in the bargain basement this looks a good piece of business. I just hope there is plenty left in the kitty for a proven goal scorer and a centre back
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On paper the team has a better balance than last season when for me we were just a bunch of individuals papering over the cracks, this lad could be just what we were lacking in midfield last season.
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Express and Star confirm fee agreed.
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My son actually grew up with Romain at Dartmouth high school in Great Barr (now Q3) going to be very bizzare seeing him line up in our first team.
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Great news, been waiting all day for an updated RE: Sawyers.
Really think he will add that dynamism to centre midfield we have lacked for so long.
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Not sure about this, which is odd because I really like Sawyers as a player he is just not quite what I had in mind at the outset of the window when I was hoping that we finally sorted out the midfield. Maybe I am wrong but I have a sneaking suspicion that we will have a lot of midfielders but no combination that is really effective.
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Wilson confirming that a fee has been agreed, in the region of £3m
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My son actually grew up with Romain at Dartmouth high school in Great Barr (now Q3) going to be very bizzare seeing him line up in our first team.
Hmmmmm given 38's ITK reputation is this a thinly veiled hint?
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Not sure about this, which is odd because I really like Sawyers as a player he is just not quite what I had in mind at the outset of the window when I was hoping that we finally sorted out the midfield. Maybe I am wrong but I have a sneaking suspicion that we will have a lot of midfielders but no combination that is really effective.
I think that's a good point Stan. I'm still not 100% he is what our midfield needed. We have a fquite a few deep lying midfirlfers now and they all have varying skill sets, but none of them are particularly mobile like, say, John McGinn or Stefan Johansson. We could be a very easy on the eye team this year but Bilic has a job on his hands getting the right balance.
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Hmmmmm given 38's ITK reputation is this a thinly veiled hint?
Please explain what you mean......
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Apparently his languid style kind of disguises how hard a worker he actually is, according to to a report i read somewhere.
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Apparently his languid style kind of disguises how hard a worker he actually is, according to to a report i read somewhere.
I'm like that at work too ;)
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"languid style" ... must use that in my next job application!!
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Great news and potentially a very good signing, have to agree with Stan though in the sense that I'm not sure what our midfield is going to look like. If we are to play 442, which seems Slaven's preference, I can't see Harper and Sawyers starting. Good news is, I can't see Sawyers and Brunt either so hopefully Brunty's CM days are over.
On paper though, we look more suited to a 5 man midfield IMO.
Excited but a little confused.
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Maybe I am wrong but I have a sneaking suspicion that we will have a lot of midfielders but no combination that is really effective.
I think we are definitely missing a mobile ball-winning midfielder which I hoped Ajayi might have been. It is so hard to know whether the midfield will work as it is tough to know how Bilic will set it up.
Back to Sawyers; he is an excellent passer of the ball, he is at a good age and we are getting him for a competitive fee. It's a good signing in my book. Even if he doesn't fit in to our style of play, I don't see us making much of a loss here.
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We're signing players who see us as a step up. Sawyers has quality on the ball and knows our club well.I like the look of how midfield is beginning to shape up personally.
Sawyers will need forwards who have good movement though for this to work well in my opinion. Imagine a midfield of Greening, Koumas, Gera and Koren without Phillips up front for e.g. ...........would've looked pretty but had no end product
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I think we are definitely missing a mobile ball-winning midfielder which I hoped Ajayi might have been. It is so hard to know whether the midfield will work as it is tough to know how Bilic will set it up.
Back to Sawyers; he is an excellent passer of the ball, he is at a good age and we are getting him for a competitive fee. It's a good signing in my book. Even if he doesn't fit in to our style of play, I don't see us making much of a loss here.
Spot on regarding the ball winning defensive mid its something we sorely lacked last season the back 4 were often exposed, Livermore there isnt the answer and unless Field takes a leap this season he doesnt seem the answer either and by the look of things Semi has been bought as a cb.
Think this is a brilliant signing for the price would have to agree I cant see the fit unless Slavs playing a 4-2-3-1 i read somewhere Sawyers dropped deeper last season so we may use him as an out and out cm rather than a behind the striker, if he is using that formation we still need a lw and a striker who will knock 15 - 20 in.
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Personally very pleased with this, haven't seen much of him however but by all accounts on Brentford forums they will miss him. Many of their fans say he is one of the best players they have seen play. My only concern is the amount of players vying for a first team place in CM but that could also be a blessing depending on injuries. It has become a much more dynamic area of the pitch with our ins/outs in this window. I know which midfield I would prefer out of Livermore/Barry/Brunt or Sawyers/Krovinović/Ajayi
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Hmmmmm given 38's ITK reputation is this a thinly veiled hint?
Fee and wages agreed....just a medical to do....dont think anyone would be hinting when saying he will be in the first team. Think its a given
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Wonder if he'll be announced at the game this evening?
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Wonder if he'll be announced at the game this evening?
Hope so if not sooner. He is having his medical today so should be done and dusted by tonight. Then again this is the Albion.
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Hope so if not sooner. He is having his medical today so should be done and dusted by tonight. Then again this is the Albion.
I was hoping he was going to play tonight ;D
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I was hoping he was going to play tonight ;D
probably will, doesn’t have to go very far to get to the game does he?!
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I have been looking at a clip of his best moments with Brentford on youtube, he will bring a new dimension to our game.
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Looking at Sawyers' game the very obvious thing that catches the eye is his passing ability which by any measure places him among the best passers in the Division e.g. Joe Allen or Olly Norwood.
His heat maps show most of his touches are within the middle third of the pitch hence the limited goal scoring output although for a deep sitting player his assists are quite high.
Defensively his contribution is not insignifcent but he probably isn't thundering into tackles but he wasn't booked 9 times last season for not tackling.
On balance I would be happy with him in a double pivot but who he is partnered with will determine how effective he is.
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Anyone itk got anything on this? Few rumours going around sheff u have hijacked it
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Anyone itk got anything on this? Few rumours going around sheff u have hijacked it
If true we move on. Not entirely sure how he fits in anyway. If Ajayi is not going to be used in midfield we need another like him.
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Matt Wilson just tweeted that it’s pretty much there. Good news.
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Anyone itk got anything on this? Few rumours going around sheff u have hijacked it
I think it was just a few of their fans on twitter wanting their club to hijack it, because they thought signing him was a no brainer at £2.9 million.
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Confirmed by Bilic on WM just. Welcome back Romaine.
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Confirmed by Bilic on WM just. Welcome back Romaine.
Great news. Let Bilic work out where he plays. He’s a footballer and that works well with me!
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While I am very happy with this signing, I would prefer Chalobah to come in (I'm doing my own head in posting it now but I think he could be as pivotal as a 20 goal a season striker as he is seriously high class in both DM and CB and would allow us serious flexibility with being able to cover Ajeyi and Hegazi, but being a brute force maestro in midfield. This kid is going to be a regular england international in a few years, much better talent than his brother who ain't shabby.
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Picture of him walking pitch side with Dowling and one of the media guys post match last night
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Good to know he's got a couple of hundred quid to one side for a dsquared2 jumper
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Not sure that's down to Dowling though more the length of time left on contract
Dowling hadn't been appointed when we first showed interest in Romain in June of 2018 and there was no mention on this thread of us having interest in Romain in January of this year when Dowling had been appointed. So, I think you can legitimately say "hats off to Dowling"
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great to see him back, along with Roofe I thought we let him go to early in his albion career, we obviously won't get Roofe back but Romaine will be a definite asset in the middle of the park, get hagahzi fit another decent CB though I think O'shea is coming along nicely, get a decent striker in and I think we will be in with a shout this season , have to be a bit patient to allow the new guys to settle in , but we wanted major surgery and now I think we have it
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Official!
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/july/sawyers-comes-home-to-albion/
“It’s been a long time coming and feel like I have unfinished business. I left the club when I was just a boy with a lot of potential. But I am coming back as a man who has matured as a player."
Welcome back!
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Boom 8)
Welcome Back!
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Welcome back on board the goodship Albion Romain
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Welcome back Romaine. He has become a very talented footballer, needs to up his goal return now he’s with us.
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Excellent signing. Really pleased with the type of players we are bringing in. Very encouraging.
Striker and possibly a left winger is what we need.
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Welcome back Romaine and good luck.
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Welcome back Romain, another good signing.
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The signing that we've needed the for the last few years - athleticism, technical and can spot any kind of pass. Really looking forward to watching him play.
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Pleased with this, comes across as a decent and well grounded fella in interviews.
Did a lot of good work in the community during his time with Brentford.
Looking forward to seeing him play in an Albion shirt.
Welcome home Romaine.
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Welcome back Romaine! Hope you hit the ground running!
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Superb news, welcome back Romaine
Looking forward to your 'languid' style and killer passes....the Bees fans have nothing but good things to say about you. An excellent signing :)
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Welcome home Romaine great to have you onboard exactly the type of player we were lacking last season.
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Really pleased to see Romaine in the B&W stripes, welcome back!
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Cracking signing, we'll done to all those involved. As for Romaine welcome back son, looking forward to seeing you on match day.
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Welcome to the club! Let's do this!
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Good signing.
Good price.
Especially like his comments, seems like he is determined to be a success here.
Welcome back Romaine.
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Welcome back RS.
Enjoyed watching you for the u23 and I am sure I will enjoy watching you in the first team.
Good luck and help us get back to where we belong.
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Good signing.
Good price.
Especially like his comments, seems like he is determined to be a success here.
Welcome back Romaine.
He also seems to come across as very modest which is a change from the big time Charlies we have had here.
If any players are reading this...you know who you are. :-*
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Well done Romaine for making the right choice!
All reports seem to suggest we will be adding quality and creativity into the midfield. I'm a strong believer that most games are won or lost by who controls the midfield.
And also pleased that he's a local boy. We need to retain a core of players who have a strong affinity with the area.
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Look at some of his passes/play on Youtube - this guy is exactly what we've been missing. Great signing.
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Welcome, looks like you will be keeping Brunt out from starting in midfield :o
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Buzzing about this signing. This kid plays the game the way it supposed to be played. Welcome home Romaine.
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A lot of warm wishes on Instagram from Brentford players, clearly made a very big impression there. Seems like a really good person with it. I like the look of our business this close season, a few more key additions to go but I’m far more optimistic for this season than I was after that villa shootout.
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Okay let's get this out of the way. It's Romaine Sawyers.
While we're here it's Kenneth Zohore.
Good let's move on. ;D
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Okay let's get this out of the way. It's Romaine Sawyers.
While we're here it's Kenneth Zohore.
Good let's move on. ;D
Sod off Jocka
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6 goals 18 assists last season in 42 games so should fit in straight away without a hitch, knows this division well.
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Okay let's get this out of the way. It's Romaine Sawyers.
While we're here it's Kenneth Zohore.
Good let's move on. ;D
You’re not trying to emulate JRM per chance? ;D
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You're not one of those pesky Romainers are you?
I'll show myself out...
Oops, your not one of those, jump to conclusion, romainiacs are you? :D
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6 goals 18 assists last season in 42 games so should fit in straight away without a hitch, knows this division well.
Don’t think he scored any goals last season actually. Still delighted with the signing though
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Thomas Frank the Brentford manager saying yesterday that he'll miss Romaine as a person and player, said he's a good presence about the place.
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6 goals 18 assists last season in 42 games so should fit in straight away without a hitch, knows this division well.
He’s a great signing and he’ll definitely fit in but he didn’t score any goals last season. He’s scored 6 goals in the 3 years he’s been at Brentford, they were when he was played further forward but last year he was used as a DM.
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Don’t think he scored any goals last season actually. Still delighted with the signing though
Yeah you're right, someone needs to get facts right.
I don't mean me I mean the report I took it from :D
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Yeah you're right, someone needs to get facts right.
I don't mean me I mean the report I took it from :D
Could be his overall Brentford tally. He scored and had 6 assists last season and scored 4 the year before (i think).
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Those figures are his entire Brentford career Phil.
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Those figures are his entire Brentford career Phil.
Looks like it, tried to find where I saw it but god knows I look at that much rubbish but I did copy and paste it and it did state 42 games and last season :-[ :D
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Lol, just found where the incorrect info I posted on Sawyers last season came from - yesterdays Birmingham Mail :o
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/romaine-sawyers-west-brom-transfer-16657386
The 27-year-old made 42 appearances last season, scoring six times and claiming 18 assists, and Whelan believes Slaven Bilic's side have got themselves a bargain.
wooopssss !!!!
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Worth a watch if you have an account on the OS
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/july/romaine-opens-up-on-his-return-home/
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There's a short video on tw@tter too.......
https://twitter.com/WBA/status/1156533595584061441?s=09
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Worth a watch if you have an account on the OS
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/july/romaine-opens-up-on-his-return-home/
His positivity and passion for this club shines through, can see how excited he is to play for the Albion. I think he’s going to be a big player for us this season and a huge fans favourite.
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Not the top 20 podcast reckon he is the signing of the Championship this Summer
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What an interview, makes me very happy for him.
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Blimey, that lad is 100% one of us. Brilliant absolutely brilliant
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Worth a watch if you have an account on the OS
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/july/romaine-opens-up-on-his-return-home/
Thanks for the link, what a cracking interview. Can't wait to see him on the pitch 8)
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Immediately my favourite player. Love the style of his game and that interview is fantastic. A couple of Albion fans in the team now. A rarity!
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Great interview from the lad, One of us clearly and supporting a team you play for must be such a good feeling. In no way shape or form should Brunt be ahead of him in the team either. But i love the respect Brunt gets at the club, Fully deserved and hoping Romaine can become a legend now aswell.
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I hope he feels his way into the team rather than busting onto the pitch over excited and gets sent off or injured by the tone of the interview he is very level headed and conscious that he is a pro athlete so it should not be a problem
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Wow, The lad's a breath of fresh air and future captain I reckon.
going to be a lot of people's new favourite player me thinks, certainly won me over. Almost bought a tear to me eye :'(
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Well if he plays half has good for us has he talks about us he's on his way to being a legand.
Wellcome home Romaine
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Refreshing interview from Romaine. Clearly an Albion fan and you can tell it's his dream to play for us. Loved his honesty to the usual new signing-type questions. Seems a really nice and grounded lad.
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Really nice guy. It's people like him and Sam Field we need, down to earth guys that have the club at heart. Great interview.
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Think Slaven will do the sentimental (right) thing and give him the armband?
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What a great interview. Very sincere and down to earth........ some would say he had a languid interview style! :D
Cannot wait to see him in our team.
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What a great interview. Very sincere and down to earth........ some would say he had a languid interview style! :D
Cannot wait to see him in our team.
Languid but a big impact!
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I remember Sky Sports News doing an interview with him sometime last season and they described him as the most laid back player ever or words to that effect
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The kids a class act. I'm sure he will be the club captain within a year or two.
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Maybe needs to back himself with shots from the edge of the box a bit more. He seems to be an unselfish player who would refer an assist to a goal and did slide one sublime pass through to someone when in a good shooting position himself last week. Maybe he needs to mix it up a bit as surely with his quality on the ball he should be a shooting threat from the edge of the box...and his YouTube stuff shows he can strike them.
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Best central midfielder we’ve had in nearly a decade. Oozes quality
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Majestic today
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Mr Cool just.100%
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The kids a class act. I'm sure he will be the club captain within a year or two.
Agree with this.
When he plays well, we play well. It’s that simple.
After the dross we’ve been served up in midfield these last 5 years or so, it’s a pleasure to watch him play. Long may if continue.
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Thought he was immense today, a calm head in a scrappy first half and a driving force in the second.
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How did we manage to get this guy for 2.9m :o
In today’s market he is worth at least 20-25...
Rolls Royce of a footballer and Albion through and through
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The player we've been crying out for to make the midfield for a couple of years. Reminds me a bit of greening but is more physical and has more of an eye for goal. Looks a wonderful player . He's also got plenty of movement in front of him so the midfield looks great to me.......fingers crossed he continues this form
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Absolutely bosses the midfield and ALWAYS looks for the ball. He’s always an option and so good when given the ball. As well as being one of our own.
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Perfect signing. Mr consistent and is very a smart footballer. Shame we didn't sign him a couple of years back.
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Absolutely love this guy. Love the way he plays and to see him score his first was great to see.
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Got what he deserved today, pleased for the lad. Listening to him on WM later he was so pleased to score for his team, and how much it meant to him really came over in the interview
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Having a proper 'playmaker' in the centre of the park is what helps to control a game.
For many years our defenders had too few options who to pass to when coming out of defence, so the ball just went long and we quickly lost possession. He doesn't hide, and he can also spot and deliver good through passes.
Being local makes this guy extra special. You can tell it means that bit extra for him. Doesn't really matter who scores the goals, but still chuffed for him to get off the mark yesterday.
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Yes he orchestrates things. You can see him pointing in certain areas where he's expecting players to make runs. I'm also pretty sure he's got enough about him to have words if those movements and runs are not being made. Pleasure to watch.
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Picked up his fifth yellow card of the season last night does that mean he's suspended for Saturday? I'm not sure of the rule now.
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Picked up his fifth yellow card of the season last night does that mean he's suspended for Saturday? I'm not sure of the rule now.
rule is the same but he’s on 4 isn’t he?
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rule is the same but he’s on 4 isn’t he?
I may be wrong but I thought he got booked vs Forest, Reading, Blackburn, Leeds and Barnsley last night ??
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I think it’s four, Forest, Leeds, Reading, Barnsley
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I think it’s four, Forest, Leeds, Reading, Barnsley
You may be right. Cheers.
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Either way, he's very close to a suspension at best and I think we'll really struggle without him. Best player on the pitch last night and you feel without him that we will revert to all the problems from last year.
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Either way, he's very close to a suspension at best and I think we'll really struggle without him. Best player on the pitch last night and you feel without him that we will revert to all the problems from last year.
Nothing like a bit of Hyperbole to get people wound up.
If/when he does get suspended it will only be for 1 match. We have Harper or Barry to come in...or even more likely we bring Hegazi into defence and Ajayi steps into midfield next to Livermore.
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Nothing like a bit of Hyperbole to get people wound up.
If/when he does get suspended it will only be for 1 match. We have Harper or Barry to come in...or even more likely we bring Hegazi into defence and Ajayi steps into midfield next to Livermore.
And you are suggesting that any of Harper (not played this season), Barry (not played this season) and Ajayi (not played in midfield for WBA) will be able to do the role Sawyers does.
My point is we need another player like him to fill the void when he's not available and a 38 year old Gareth Barry should not have be resigned to be that player.
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Nothing like a bit of Hyperbole to get people wound up.
If/when he does get suspended it will only be for 1 match. We have Harper or Barry to come in...or even more likely we bring Hegazi into defence and Ajayi steps into midfield next to Livermore.
I'd expect Krovinovic to come in for Sawyers.
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I'd expect Krovinovic to come in for Sawyers.
Yes me too and i would also say that next in line for that role would be Brunt.
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If he can avoid a booking Saturday and avoid one for most of the game at stoke, he should take a late tactical one.
Leave him at home for Hull away.
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I have not seen the tackle he was booked for last night again, but when the bloke went down we had a roll or two and hand waving followed by much slapping of hand on the ground as though he had just received a double fracture. Romaine looked a bit surprised and it did appear as though the player was going to be leaving in an ambulance. So imagine my none surprise when he a) got up and walked away, and b) ran like Usain Bolt 30 seconds later.
I can only deduce that he was play acting trying to get Romaine sent off and should be done accordingly...…..
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And you are suggesting that any of Harper (not played this season), Barry (not played this season) and Ajayi (not played in midfield for WBA) will be able to do the role Sawyers does.
My point is we need another player like him to fill the void when he's not available and a 38 year old Gareth Barry should not have be resigned to be that player.
For 1 game, yes I am.Also, they don't have to offer what Sawyers does they just have to be effective in their role.
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Based on the bench choices this season Krovinović or Brunt will replace Sawyers if he gets a suspension.
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I'd expect Krovinovic to go in there. Would be interesting to see if that actually gives us a better defensive balance, as while Sawyers is brilliant at controlling the pace of the game and making the forward passes, he really struggles to stop teams going through us. Krovinovic does seem to have a bit more of a motor in that sense.
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Watching Sawyers play this season has been a joy. His technique; his comfort and ease in receiving the ball in pressured spaces, his pass selection, the weight of his passes, his intelligence and vision. In his own understated way he really is a cut above. Someone who can definitely play at a higher level and dare I say thrive in the Premier League. There was a few below standard performances on Tuesday night but just thought I’d give a quick mention to Sawyers as his game was pretty much faultless.
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When I watch Sawyers, I can't help but wonder if Sam Field could really do with the same career-mindedness.
Move away, play football, come back the finished article.
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When I watch Sawyers, I can't help but wonder if Sam Field could really do with the same career-mindedness.
Move away, play football, come back the finished article.
I think he may well need to move away to further develop but don't personally expect him to reach the level Sawyers is at now.
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i find it absolutely amazing that for 6 weeks there hasn't been a comment about Sawyers.
I think he makes us tick, and has been absolutely phenomenal this season.
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i find it absolutely amazing that for 6 weeks there hasn't been a comment about Sawyers.
I think he makes us tick, and has been absolutely phenomenal this season.
Agree - exactly what we've needed for years/ A player to 'turn over' the ball, keep us ticking in midfield plus he can pick a defence splitting pass. Arguably why our midfield and rest of the team and contributed more goals? Majestic player in my view at times.........
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i find it absolutely amazing that for 6 weeks there hasn't been a comment about Sawyers.
I think he makes us tick, and has been absolutely phenomenal this season.
Nearly cost us a goal against Preston so people are probably letting the dust settle but I do agree he's been a fantastic signing and was the type of player we desperately needed last season.
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Great signing. Maybe it is his consistency levels that result in few posts on here, i.e. he is always good. He did leave me with my heart in my mouth at Preston however when he decided to do a Messi in his own box :)
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Nearly cost us a goal against Preston so people are probably letting the dust settle but I do agree he's been a fantastic signing and was the type of player we desperately needed last season.
Yes he is prone to being to casual sometimes, a steal at what we paid for him though, now Albion go get his ex team mate watkins from Brentford
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His relaxed style does cause the odd heart attack defensively, and he did not have his best game at Preston, but he has been superb for us and I agree that he does make us tick. With a Yacob alongside him preventing him from needing to do any defensive work he would truly flourish.
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Yup amidst the almost constant stream of virtue signalling for the perceived unpopular players, Sawyers has been immense and key to all our success.
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His range of passing is great, but I can't help wonder if he actually has the all-round game needed for the Premiership. Hopefully time will tell.
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His range of passing is great, but I can't help wonder if he actually has the all-round game needed for the Premiership. Hopefully time will tell.
More goals required perhaps?
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More goals required perhaps?
That and lack of pace.
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That and lack of pace.
respect your opinion, but personally find it amazing your not sure if he is a premier league player. i think he would look even better in that league.
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I saw an advert for Sky Bet which was really an interview with Bilic, and he said that Sawyers has great potential.
He could maybe transition into a sort of Gareth Barry type player.
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That and lack of pace.
A ball travels faster than a player can run ;) so his pace is not has inportant.
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A ball travels faster than a player can run ;) so his pace is not has inportant.
Maybe he needs to work on his positional play when we haven't got the ball though, looks to me he gets too close and/or on the wrong side, but I don't want to be too critical as I only see highlights/dodgy streams. Brunt changed his style a few years ago, and stood off a little more, I think it was under Hodgson.
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Never been his biggest fan,lazy of late
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Never been his biggest fan,lazy of late
I’m going to get slaughtered for this but I’m going to say what I see .
Totally neglectful of defensive responsibility to the point of embarrassment, really don’t get the fuss about him , one of the only players I have ever seen that cannot jockey , period , yes he keeps it simple but as you say Lazy .
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Never a right midfielder. Blame today lies squarely with management.
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Never a right midfielder. Blame today lies squarely with management.
Completely agree jacko. As much as Livermore as improved this season for me we need a proper defensive midfielder to play alongside sawyers.
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Never a right midfielder. Blame today lies squarely with management.
Agreed he was not utilised correctly today, but his general form in the last few weeks has not been very good and he could do with a game or two out to rest him/get him refocused.
Has just seemed a bit half soaked/off the pace recently.
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Never a right midfielder. Blame today lies squarely with management.
Yep,I’m ok with squad rotation but why not bring one of Phillips/Edwards on when we were desperate for an out
And if we can rotate them sawyers n pereira look like they need a break
Thought Slav made a few errors today
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Yeah disappointing today, he did win a few tackles which he generally looks lightweight/timid in his approach. As mentioned probably right there as a rotation contender. Difficult, they are all underperforming.
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Sawyers does a very important job for the team which we never had last season. He picks up the short passes out from the back and then has the confidence and control to deliver good forward passes. I think the Graeme Jones method of playing out from the back might have worked with him there (though arguably you'd have needed others besides Sawyers comfortable on the ball). But lately, he's shown he's human with a few errors, which maybe you can put down to lapses of concentration.
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The guy’s been one of our top performers and after a bad game or two the knives are out. Everyone knows how difficult this period is and we should be happy with where we are at the moment.
I think everyone is expecting us to score on every chance and win every game so when we don’t we’re quick to criticise.
I’d like to see where we are after the Leeds game and take stock then.
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Nothing like an overreaction. Easily in our top performers this season. Played out of position against Barnsley, that is all.
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I'm with Jacko on this one, he looked very much like a square peg in a round hole
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No “slagging him offâ€
Simply stating that he slows things down too much, recently hasn’t looked at the races and esp against Brentford gave the ball away too often IMO
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Really missed him connecting the play as he was out of position in my view. Hopefully that won’t be repeated.
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Going through a dip in form of late. Losing an outlet like Diangana won't have helped, nor having an in an out Phillips, an Austin lacking dynamism or a Kanu who runs very hot and cold. Playing him out of position won't help either. The points are still rolling in for now though and the gap is being maintained. Hopefully as others return to fitness and form we'll see the best of Romaine again and really kick on. Still glad he ditched his woolen Villa hat for an Albion shirt.
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Potential player of the season for me. Yes, Diangana and Pereira are show stealers but Sawyers goes about his business under the radar and it is really noticed if he isn't there or is out of position.
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Nobody plays to the same standard every single game but lazy is one thing Sawyers is not. It takes a lot of work when he continually makes himself available for the ball - the formation and positional change meant he was more restricted in being able to do that yesterday.
I also disagree that he slows us down. His main quality is the number of first time passes he plays to keep things moving and usually forward. It was more difficult to do that at Blues due to the poor pitch and yesterday due to the formation change.
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We should be building a side around him - he is a rolls Royce midfielder - always available for the ball, the instigator of our attacks and usually very productive in possession.
It was saftness to disrupt the engine room of our midfield which has functioned so well
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He’s so been brilliant this season so I can forgive a few average performances. I love his temperament, never panics, good game IQ, doesn’t show boat, can play the killer ball but only if it’s the right pass, happy to keep it simple when we need to. Great signing and a joy to watch him play.
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I wouldn't say he is lazy, but like so many others in the team he is slightly too laid back for his own good. We are also too easy to play through in midfield, because he doesn't put in the hard yards.
I think if we see it through and go up, he either needs to show a bit more, or he'll be pushed forwards as a number 10 to allow for a midfielder who can do the hard yards well - we can't carry passengers in the Prem, especially in the center of midfield.
But we need to cut out this Rolls Royce stuff - he's not that good. A very good passer, but not a great all-rounder.
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Surprised to see comments saying he slows the game down. While Krovinovic can be guilty of that, I think Sawyers is the one who sets the tempo. He speeds it up when he wants (with his trademark on the run pass which seems to happen a step quicker than you expect) and he directs the game when he feels it needs to be slowed down or moved in a different direction.
He can however be a bit sloppy/laid back in possession and his biggest issue is his inability to defend, which is possibly a by product of having come through here as a centre forward/"in the hole" number 10 and only recently dropping deeper to become a playmaker.
If we do see this season out and get promotion, the biggest question will be how we accomodate his brilliant footballing mind, while improving our defensive structure?
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I would say that alongside Perera and Diangana he is in our top 3 performers this season. He’s been outstanding. He can look as laid back as he wants in my view - he’s a total class act.
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Kid looks knackered to me and I'd rest him for a game or two. Tell tale sign when Furlong told him to close down the cross for their goal but Romaine couldn't raise a gallop to get out there.
I'd rest him for Boro and bring Barry in.
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Seen the following quote multiple times on Walsall/Brentford forums over the years: "Anyone who thinks Sawyers is lazy doesn't understand football".
Whilst that quote is spot on, I would worry about him defensively if we get back into the Prem. Nothing to do with work-rate or his lack of pace (see Barry all-time leading PL appearances), he just doesn't have any defensive instinct. It's because he's a converted number 10, and it can't be coached, especially now he's 28. There has been a good 5-6 times this season where he should have cost us a goal and I've been staggered at how he's neglected his defensive responsibility, only for the opposition to fail to convert. He'll get punished in the PL.
Again, I fully understand his role in the team and he's virtually undroppable this season. Also, this isn't a criticism of Sawyers, it's a part that is missing from his game and he wouldn't be playing in this league if he could defend as well.
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Seen the following quote multiple times on Walsall/Brentford forums over the years: "Anyone who thinks Sawyers is lazy doesn't understand football".
Whilst that quote is spot on, I would worry about him defensively if we get back into the Prem. Nothing to do with work-rate or his lack of pace (see Barry all-time leading PL appearances), he just doesn't have any defensive instinct. It's because he's a converted number 10, and it can't be coached, especially now he's 28. There has been a good 5-6 times this season where he should have cost us a goal and I've been staggered at how he's neglected his defensive responsibility, only for the opposition to fail to convert. He'll get punished in the PL.
Again, I fully understand his role in the team and he's virtually undroppable this season. Also, this isn't a criticism of Sawyers, it's a part that is missing from his game and he wouldn't be playing in this league if he could defend as well.
I have to say, to me, your post makes perfect sense and I agree with your observations on Romaine
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Love him as a player. I think Romaine is very similar to Jonathan Greening who was a converted winger after all. I think he could work great in the premier league if he has 'legs', energy and someone who can mix it up defensively around him. We really need a young Mulumbu beside him I think. Sawyers needs to be able to express himself and keep the team ticking over without worrying too much about having to change his game. I think he's a very natural footballer and if we try to manufacture him into a defensive midfielder we'll ruin him. At Champ level, Livermore beside him with Krovinovic is fine but if we go up, we'll need to beef up the midfield a bit more to protect us...........
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Seen the following quote multiple times on Walsall/Brentford forums over the years: "Anyone who thinks Sawyers is lazy doesn't understand football".
Whilst that quote is spot on, I would worry about him defensively if we get back into the Prem. Nothing to do with work-rate or his lack of pace (see Barry all-time leading PL appearances), he just doesn't have any defensive instinct. It's because he's a converted number 10, and it can't be coached, especially now he's 28. There has been a good 5-6 times this season where he should have cost us a goal and I've been staggered at how he's neglected his defensive responsibility, only for the opposition to fail to convert. He'll get punished in the PL.
Again, I fully understand his role in the team and he's virtually undroppable this season. Also, this isn't a criticism of Sawyers, it's a part that is missing from his game and he wouldn't be playing in this league if he could defend as well.
It might be spot on in your opinion, but clearly not everybody agrees and furlong screaming at him to cover and he can’t means he either showed laziness or tiredness.
Either way we have set a bar high and need improvement, imo there have been some lazy parts to his performance....doesn’t mean I don’t like/rate him...I do..but no one is above critic.
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It might be spot on in your opinion, but clearly not everybody agrees and furlong screaming at him to cover and he can’t means he either showed laziness or tiredness.
Either way we have set a bar high and need improvement, imo there have been some lazy parts to his performance....doesn’t mean I don’t like/rate him...I do..but no one is above critic.
I agree he's tired at that point but watch the goal again. His instinct should be to close the man down, no matter how half-arsed he does it, but he just stands still. Not even an attempt to track Chaplin when Furlong decides to close down, he has no recognition of the danger or where to be to prevent the chance. In isolation you could say it's lazy/tiredness but he does it regularly. When we're in possession his IQ is superb and he runs the game, defensively he's about the worst you'll see from a player who plays that deep - I'm just saying it's not his fault as he's spent most of his development years playing at the other end of the pitch.
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I agree he's tired at that point but watch the goal again. His instinct should be to close the man down, no matter how half-arsed he does it, but he just stands still. Not even an attempt to track Chaplin when Furlong decides to close down, he has no recognition of the danger or where to be to prevent the chance. In isolation you could say it's lazy/tiredness but he does it regularly. When we're in possession his IQ is superb and he runs the game, defensively he's about the worst you'll see from a player who plays that deep - I'm just saying it's not his fault as he's spent most of his development years playing at the other end of the pitch.
I get that
Does it mean as a club we have to be heartless and chop him if we go up?
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I get that
Does it mean as a club we have to be heartless and chop him if we go up?
I'm honestly not sure, but I have a feeling we'd need the next Kante alongside him if we do.
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Looks like he really needs a rest. He's played virtually every game for 90 mins.
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I'm honestly not sure, but I have a feeling we'd need the next Kante alongside him if we do.
Ryan woods not getting time at stoke, always 5hought he was quite good, also the guy blurs signed sunjic .
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Plays way to deep.
Needs to be at least 10 yards behind the striker and in front of Livermore
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Feel for him at times - seems to be the only one who isn’t frightened of having the ball.
No surprise he has to drop deep the way our back four was giving it away.
If you have sawyers deep then there has to be movement in front of him and there’s nothing. It’s stale.
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Sawyers is lovely to watch on the ball but he looks the same age as Gareth Barry moving around the pitch, slow ain't the word.
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Sawyers is a quality player who is probably tired because he has carried the useless lump Livermore for 20 games!!!
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Think it’s time we bring Harper/Barry in and move Sawyers into the 10 role. Too much pressure on Periera to create.
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Been pooh for weeks in my opinion and has offered nothing of an attacking threat since our purple patch some months back. Needs dropping with Townsend, Phillips and livermore.
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Was tough for him today. Very little movement ahead of the ball. That is another result of Diangana's injury, but what is becoming increasingly apparent is that we lack squad depth across the board to contend with a 46 game season (LB, CM, and CB are all weak once the first choice player is out, not to mention the lack of creative options in Grady's absence).
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Nice and tidy passer of the ball and does well organizing other players and directing them around the pitch. Always looks to make himself available to other players giving them an option.
However, poor in challenging for headers, not great at tackling on the ground, very rarely picks out creative balls forward to create opportunities (his position further back does limit this possibility somewhat). Doesn't run past players with the ball very often.
In summary, he's a decent player for us as long as our other players are performing but far away from the amazing player that the likes of Don Goodman on the TV every game have bigged him up as. Think we could quite possibly need an upgrade in the future depending on what league we're in, although maybe he could look better in a role further forward.
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Am I right in thinking he played further forward for Brentford ?
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Am I right in thinking he played further forward for Brentford ?
yes, his best position is where he plays for us though.
he does not need dropping at all IMO. Put yourself in his shoes, he had no options what so ever last night with what he had infront of him, a big lump in Zohore and then HRK constantly calling for the ball then when it got played into him the Defender got infront of him. and then never no option on the lefth and side because Perreria was put there and naturally is always going to drift inside the middle.
With stoke having 10 men behind the ball after scoring the movement from our front players last night was really quite bad.
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No need to drop Sawyers in my opinion. Sawyers needs better movement in front of him. If the three in front are playing well, he has options to pass to, otherwise he has to go square or behind.
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As strange as it sounds I think Sawyers is starting to become a victim of his own ability. At the moment nobody is wanting to take responsibility on the ball or be brave with it, they take the easy option and that is to look for Sawyers. He is so comfortable in possession and happy to receive it - even in tight and crowded spaces. Furthermore when he has the ball he looks forward and there is zero movement in front of him – again nobody willing to take a chance or responsibly, nobody demanding the ball, no willing runners. There are too many players hiding in my opinion, playing it safe, not enough of them have the gumption or character to affect the game when the chips are down.
I feel Sawyers is now dropping back 10 yards to play even more as a ‘quarter back’ but where is Livermore? Surely he should be more the anchor out of the two but he is unwilling to receive the ball off our centre backs, I feel he has gone back into his shell after an upturn in form earlier in this season. Also Semi needs to be reinstated, at least he has pace and the confidence to bring the ball out and push the whole side forward, neither Bartley or Hegazi did this last night which again was a contributory factor in Sawyers playing too deep.
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That's not how we set up earlier in the season. Sawyers plays the deeper role letting Livermore get further forward.
And Hegazi brought the ball out plenty of times last night, way more than Adjayi does. Half the issue we have is with the CB's deciding to hoof the ball forward to two forwards who have terrible first touches. Or they ping it out to the wings leaving our players having to head the ball back in play and hope we keep possession.
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Romaine needs to be the guy further forward and dictating the play...it seems him and Livermore have swapped roles
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Tend to agree with all the posts regarding lack of movement in opponents half. Nobody except MP showing for the ball so he was always surrounded by at least 3 opposition players. As well as Sawyers, Hegazi and Bartley only ever had the option of giving it to a well marked Periera or trying to find wide player 40 yards or more away and not really looking for it anyway. It was never any use trying to find either of our front 2 because it just came back immediately due to lack of pace, nous or ability. If there aint nobody to pass to what are you going to do?
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Romaine needs to be the guy further forward and dictating the play...it seems him and Livermore have swapped roles
Difficult call. Further forward he would be better placed to set up chances, but we need someone playing deeper to link the play from Johnstone and the CB's. Sawyers is far better than Livermore in picking up short passes from the back and linking the play. I think we saw what happened last season when Graeme Jones tried to link the play from the back with players who were less comfortable on the ball.
Also, if Swayers plays more forward, where does Perreria play?
Actually, I wonder if Sawyers could do with a breather as he looked a bit tired last night. We have to get that zip back into our play which he is part of.
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Sawyers played well last night. He was constantly looking for the ball and trying to build play and get the team going. Stoke pounced one him and Perreira like wild animals any time they got possession, forcing the ball to our defenders or Livermore who can't pass for toffee. Had a few others stepped up and not made basic errors then we would have got some sort of result. All Sawyers needs is better players around him, then the opposition have too much to concentrate on. At present all they have to do is mark him and Perriera out of the game and were screwed.
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Sawyers played well last night. He was constantly looking for the ball and trying to build play and get the team going. Stoke pounced one him and Perreira like wild animals any time they got possession, forcing the ball to our defenders or Livermore who can't pass for toffee. Had a few others stepped up and not made basic errors then we would have got some sort of result. All Sawyers needs is better players around him, then the opposition have too much to concentrate on. At present all they have to do is mark him and Perriera out of the game and were screwed.
Saywers was pants last night and has been during slump, created nothing of note with his first option passing to Hegazi too lump ball forward.
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not a fan but it does appear his poor form affecting the whole team
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not a fan but it does appear his poor form affecting the whole team
i would say the opposite, i think the players higher up the pitch is affecting his game with limited movement and options.
no options or movement monday night, stoke could have put a back 4 out of west brom crem and it would have marked our attacking players out of the game.
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Agree, Sawyers looks ineffective because the forward players are not moving, hence him having to pass side wards. Hes never scared to receive the ball, but the movement from the forward players is not there for him to pick out passes.
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Was it sawyers who was "flung" to the ground both v. Stoke at a throw-in and again v. Leeds when in the penalty area ?
How do other teams always get away with this ?
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With Pereira out, it does force Bilic to shake things up in the middle and maybe put in a few more defensive or mobile midfielders, possibly pushing Sawyers further forward.
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With Pereira out, it does force Bilic to shake things up in the middle and maybe put in a few more defensive or mobile midfielders, possibly pushing Sawyers further forward.
Yes, and Sawyers himself has said our system has been worked out by other teams, so we actually need a plan B now, either 352 or 4141, either way get more bodies in midfield.
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I've often thought Sawyers would do better further up the pitch. Don't get me wrong I love him but in his current role I think he lingers on the ball too much at times and gives it away in dangerous areas, obviously doing that further up the pitch would be more acceptable.
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i would say the opposite, i think the players higher up the pitch is affecting his game with limited movement and options.
no options or movement monday night, stoke could have put a back 4 out of west brom crem and it would have marked our attacking players out of the game.
Bang on mush.
If you have no options or movement then who are you expected to play the pass to?
Always wants the ball and trying to dictate the tempo. Bit of movement upfront to utilise his passing range and we’ll get the best of him again
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Sawyers was our best midfielder against Stoke, despite them trying to mark him out of the game and targeting him. Unfortunately we struggled ahead of him, we had no width when Zohore came on and the most of the rest of them went into hiding. Sawyers had two Stoke players pressing him every time he go the ball. Contrast that with Livermore on the other hand had the freedom of the pitch and yet was pants, with atrocious passing. Romaine has been the victim recently of his own success with teams targeting him and obviously the team with reduced quality around him. I've no concerns with him and won't be panicking because of recent results. A lot of comments are very over the top.
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Against Stoke Livermore gave the ball away cheaply 3 or 4 times in the first 20 mins - and I'm harshly including trying to create a goal scoring cahce in that - after that was pretty solid.
Sawyers gave the ball away several times throughout the game putting us under pressure. I remember him spraying one pass outwide that missed his man by about 30 yards, if Livermore did that people would have commented on it right away. Against Stoke, Sawyers was more guilty of giving the ball away, and in dangerous areas, than Livermore in my opinion. For the record, I think Sawyers is fine, doing a good job, and all players will give the ball away at some point.
Sawyers picks the ball up quite deep and his options are limited because of a few reasons.
1) Our attacking players are too far forward letting their midfield pack the central areas. Fine when we have width but neither full backs are getting forward much any more. This also means our midfield has to either drop deeper, or our passing options are limited and we end up trying to thread a ball through, or go back to a CH to hoof it.
2) Zohore and HRK aren't good enough. Neither of them are great at holding the ball up. Against Stoke I lost count of how many times the ball was played into the feet of HRK only for the defender to just step in front, or a bad touch ends up losing possession.
3) With Gibbs and Diangana in the side, they add more attacking options and occupy the other team more. Townsend just isn't good enough and without Diangana the opposition can completely ignore our left flank. Against, limits the options.
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The only thing I can say is that I'm sick of players coming on media and saying they are going to stop the rot. Let the manager do it talking to the press and players concentrate on what they are paid for talking on the the pitch.
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Sawyers is a quality player who is probably tired because he has carried the useless lump Livermore for 20 games!!!
That'll be the useless lump that has scored and assisted more and can tackle?
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Sawyers was our best midfielder against Stoke, despite them trying to mark him out of the game and targeting him. Unfortunately we struggled ahead of him, we had no width when Zohore came on and the most of the rest of them went into hiding. Sawyers had two Stoke players pressing him every time he go the ball. Contrast that with Livermore on the other hand had the freedom of the pitch and yet was pants, with atrocious passing. Romaine has been the victim recently of his own success with teams targeting him and obviously the team with reduced quality around him. I've no concerns with him and won't be panicking because of recent results. A lot of comments are very over the top.
Agree with this, Sawyers will be back to his best as soon as we come out of this bad run. However, I'd still be tempted to rest him for the next league game and play Barry instead, if for nothing more than Sawyers could do with a rest, mentally as much as anything.
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So so so so so lightweight for a central midfielder
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Another thing that riles me is he continually (EVERY game) does stupid things in risky areas
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Struggled early on but generally played well today.
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He’s a quick thinker. Probably more suited to a less hectic game.
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Very good player, still think better of more forward than he does play.
If we drop him we lose a good chunk of our possession which we can't afford
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If Livermore had given the ball away or given away as many free kick as Sawyers did today, he would have been hung out to dry on here. Bad day at the office, hopefully things improve for him.
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If Livermore had given the ball away or given away as many free kick as Sawyers did today, he would have been hung out to dry on here. Bad day at the office, hopefully things improve for him.
Agree with that thoughts Sawyers was not at the races today. Only my opinion but gave the ball away far too often and conceded free kicks in dangerous areas. Have seen him play better.
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Agree with that thoughts Sawyers was not at the races today. Only my opinion but gave the ball away far too often and conceded free kicks in dangerous areas. Have seen him play better.
Thought he was not his best, always took the negative option
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Sawyers was rubbish today. Better in the 2nd half but dismal first half.
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If Livermore had given the ball away or given away as many free kick as Sawyers did today, he would have been hung out to dry on here. Bad day at the office, hopefully things improve for him.
Agree wholeheartedly but, Sawyers does things that Livermore never will, he's composed on the ball, can pick a pass and is far more assured. Not his best performance but still a massive part of a great win.
No need to be looking for negatives today just enjoy.
Cheers.
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No need to be looking for negatives today just enjoy.
Cheers.
That will be the day! :D
Some one is always going to the focus of negative comments, even after a comprehensive, well earned team performance and victory.
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The giveaway is him chewing gum on the pitch, I can't think of anyone else who does that today - the risk of choking on it in a heavy collision may be why he is so feeble without the ball.
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Thought he was not his best, always took the negative option
Sawyers aye been at his best for ages now.
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The giveaway is him chewing gum on the pitch, I can't think of anyone else who does that today - the risk of choking on it in a heavy collision may be why he is so feeble without the ball.
Saw that not good. Mind I am a medic.
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Not at his best today or the last few game's but he sure put himself about.
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Sawyers wasn’t great first half but he made some absolutely fantastic forward passes second half and got stuck in a bit second half. I think he played well.
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He has to stop fouling player just outside of our box... Move at least 20 metres up field !
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I think he has set a very high standard. Today he gave the ball away a couple of times but also played passes the very few other players can. Still well worth his place in my view.
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Sawyers can frustrate at times, BUT his ability to pitch the ball up in time spaces and play a forward pass is almost priceless. We had No ONE with that ability last season.
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Great when on song at times was a liability today. But it wasn't a game for pretty pretty. It was a scrap. Hopefully he plays better midweek
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Sawyers can frustrate at times, BUT his ability to pitch the ball up in time spaces and play a forward pass is almost priceless. We had No ONE with that ability last season.
Spot on. And last season we had nobody who could link the play from the backs/SJ to further up the pitch.
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The giveaway is him chewing gum on the pitch, I can't think of anyone else who does that today - the risk of choking on it in a heavy collision may be why he is so feeble without the ball.
What give away? Are you saying he chews gum to make himself look like some 70’s cop? Maybe he has a reason to chew a substance during a game. Personally, I think he’d look better gnashing down a a toothpick. ☺ï¸
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The giveaway is him chewing gum on the pitch, I can't think of anyone else who does that today - the risk of choking on it in a heavy collision may be why he is so feeble without the ball.
Well O'Shea was chewing gum as well. I'm amazed at the number of players who do these days...anyone can be knocked unconscious in a head clash and chewing gum is potentially dangerous.
Anyway, I thought Sawyers played well personally in conditions which weren't suited to his touch game. Maybe we are expecting him to be perfect.
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Just not sure with this lad. Has an opportunity on edge or area to trap and shoot and just controls it and goes backwards. Even Greening would have had a shot there!
Dingle don says hes just one of those players that wants to move the ball along but sometimes it actually slows us down.
Just seems super casual like he thinks he's Iniesta? Dunno weird one , want him to do well as hes one of our youth.
Am I seeing something different to other people?
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I noticed he has a lot of strapping on his leg. He seems a bit low on confidence but is still an important player. I think he set such a high standard in the first half of the season that he's made a rod for his own back.
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Thought he was fine today made some decent interceptions while we know edge of the opposition box isn't his strength.
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A neutral watching friend singled Sawyers out for praise today
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A neutral watching friend singled Sawyers out for praise today
He was decent today.
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I think he's been a bit below his best but he certainly hasn't been as awful as some have made out.
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Can’t get my head around the criticism. Yes, he’s a shadow of the attacking prowess of Pereira and Krovinovic but he and Livermore play just as a important roles turning over the ball and providing an outlet to attack. Wish some fans would just get off his back and support the lad, there’s bigger issues to solve.
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Thought he was off the pace again today to be honest. Still our best option as the base of the 3 but would probably benefit from a spell out of the team.
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He was great pre christmas but while our form has improved recently, his still seems to be at our festive season/january levels.
I like watching him as he has vision anf looks great on the ball, but a lack of confidence seems to be showing now. He is sho2ing for the ball less when the centre backs have it and his contribution to attacking moves has decreased as well.
Hope he finds his form again, but he now looks more like what I expected when we signed - a classy but limited top half championship player.
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He was great pre christmas but while our form has improved recently, his still seems to be at our festive season/january levels.
I like watching him as he has vision anf looks great on the ball, but a lack of confidence seems to be showing now. He is sho2ing for the ball less when the centre backs have it and his contribution to attacking moves has decreased as well.
Hope he finds his form again, but he now looks more like what I expected when we signed - a classy but limited top half championship player.
It’s the pairing that’s out
It’s not his fault and it’s not Livermore’s fault, but if they are in a two the pairing is just wrong
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The issue with him in the team is when the opposition turn the ball over and the ball is coming past his position. He is a useless tackler and really struggles to even jockey/slow a player down when running at him.
He also has zero pace to get back behind the ball if he is beaten. I think he would actually beneft playing in a 3 in midfield where he is not the furthest player back so he has some protection behind him.
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Lino sent him off. Slightly harsh but no major complaint.
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Grab an opponent by the throat is a red card. No complaints, he should know better.
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As with Pereira and several other incidents, refs using every opportunity they get to give us cards. Silly of him to do it (as with Pereira) but another harsh red and a key player missing for 3 games for something that happens week in week out to us.
Having streamed the game, he's an absolute muppet, there was barely anything in the challenges and he reacts like that at 2-0 up in complete control, moment of madness! Why on earth he put his hands on his throat, maybe accidental but it didn't look like it - so I think it was a red for sure. Love the guy to bits but got engage the brain in these situations. Luckily we capitalised on an error straight after and put the game to bed.
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Grab an opponent by the throat is a red card. No complaints, he should know better.
Agree 100%. You can’t grab a player by the throat or put your hands on their face and expect to stay on the pitch. It’s a terrible example to set kids watching the game
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Let his teammates down massively and he should be extremely grateful to them
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Sawyers comes across as so laid back he's nearly horizontal now I know every fan will always say of their player "it is totally out character" but in this case it really is. I have no idea what triggered this but he was riled up by something it could not have been the challenge.
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Let his teammates down massively and he should be extremely grateful to them
He made a mistake and was unlucky to see red. Noticed your ludicrous over-reaction in the match thread.
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Apparently played with the lad at Walsall so must be some previous with him as it seemed a massive over reaction.
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He made a mistake and was unlucky to see red. Noticed your ludicrous over-reaction in the match thread.
Nothing ludicrous about it, he misses three games now, if someone steps up in his absence to play at the level he has failed to reach for the past few weeks then why should he walk back into the side?
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Whatever the Bristol player has said, you can't put your hands around someone's neck and expect to stay on the pitch. Unfortunately there are alot of players who try and wind up their opponents to make up for being outclassed on the pitch. Sawyers has to learn to ignore it, and he will be a better player for it.
Hope that Rakheem Harper is given a chance during the suspension.
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Whatever the Bristol player has said, you can't put your hands around someone's neck and expect to stay on the pitch. Unfortunately there are alot of players who try and wind up their opponents to make up for being outclassed on the pitch. Sawyers has to learn to ignore it, and he will be a better player for it.
Hope that Rakheem Harper is given a chance during the suspension.
Yes, seems the logical replacement.
Not seen the highlights yet but if hes put his hands around someones neck he deserves to get sent off. Been poor lately anyway, could do with the rest.
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Nothing ludicrous about it, he misses three games now, if someone steps up in his absence to play at the level he has failed to reach for the past few weeks then why should he walk back into the side?
You said he "has been a complete liability of late" which was uncalled for and wrong and said he should not play again for the entire season if we didn't end up winning! Pant wetting stuff. Post match your dressing it up now as somebody else grabbing his place and deserving to keep the shirt but it clear your were angrily suggesting he should be binned off had we not won, regardless of the form of others.
Thankfully Bristol were that bad I reckon we could have seen out that game with 9 men let alone 10. One thing I didn't know is that Sawyers and the Bristol player, Jamie Paterson were team mates at Walsall so maybe there is some history between them? Sawyers massively over reacted, which was completely out of character so either something was said or there is something else we don't know about. I hope like Periera, he comes back stronger.
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If players are going to get sent off do it properly and take the fuggers out! Give em a good right hook!
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Yes, seems the logical replacement.
Not seen the highlights yet but if hes put his hands around someones neck he deserves to get sent off. Been poor lately anyway, could do with the rest.
It's on the very low end of hand on throat, I think he was a bit unlucky and I've seen a lot worse just get just a booking.
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Just seen the highlights, wasnt as bad as it sounded to be fair but you still can't do that and everyone knows that.
Great finish by HRK for the 3rd!
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People have been saying he needs to be dropped etc for a few games so let’s see how we go without him
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No excuse - you can't do that and get away with it. In a strange way it may benefit him for the run in. A three game 'rest' may be what he needs to get back to his best. It didn't do Pereira any harm!
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Hasnt been playing well recently but not a good time to lose him. Hes key to when we move the ball, the players look for him. But gives a chance to harper/barry. Lets see what slav does.
Anyone know if the newcastle cup game would be the 3rd or is it league games only?
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Hasnt been playing well recently but not a good time to lose him. Hes key to when we move the ball, the players look for him. But gives a chance to harper/barry. Lets see what slav does.
Anyone know if the newcastle cup game would be the 3rd or is it league games only?
The Newcastle game will count like the West Ham one did for Pereria
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Not as big a loss as it would have been earlier in the season and it might be the rest he needs. I know he was inly 1 or 2 yellows away from a 2 match ban anyway (does this reset now?).
I note he has put something in social.media tonight which suggests he has seen some judgemental tweets about the sending off and not being happy about it - that's a bit of a downer but that is the age we live in with social media.
Hopefully he reflects on it and comes back stronger.
Harper or Krov in that spot for me.
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After the 37th game the yellow card amnesty happens
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I actually thought today was his best game in ages as well, he was a bit deeper today and defended better off the ball too. Shame it happened but as long as Livermore is fit then I think Harper will fit in nicely. It's a long season anyway so maybe the break will do him good.
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Saw the incident and while there wasn’t a great deal of force, you can’t grab someone around the throat. No way will that get rescinded.
Harper to replace maybe with Barry or Brunt to replace after 60 mins.
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Saw the incident and while there wasn’t a great deal of force, you can’t grab someone around the throat. No way will that get rescinded.
Harper to replace maybe with Barry or Brunt to replace after 60 mins.
The last thing we need is brunt or Barry to come on for the last half hour and suck the life out of the game. Both lost their legs and majority of brunt’s passes are backwards which is the last thing we need with our track record of conceding silly goals.
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We won't keep the ball well enough with a midfield 2 of Harper and Livermore. If Livermore was the one missing there would be a better case for Harper.
Regards Sawyers it's a disgrace he's had to take to SM to out needless abuse he has received from our own fans.
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The last thing we need is brunt or Barry to come on for the last half hour and suck the life out of the game. Both lost their legs and majority of brunt’s passes are backwards which is the last thing we need with our track record of conceding silly goals.
So who would you bring in mate? No way Harper plays the full 90.
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We won't keep the ball well enough with a midfield 2 of Harper and Livermore. If Livermore was the one missing there would be a better case for Harper.
Regards Sawyers it's a disgrace he's had to take to SM to out needless abuse he has received from our own fans.
That is sad to hear mate. Not sure what kind of abuse he’s copped but whatever it is, it’s unacceptable.
Who do you replace him with Jacko?
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Disgusting.
I just hope he does not read some of the comments about him on here.
Difference between constructive criticism and constantly being made as a scapegoat and slagging off for no reason.
He will be missed without a shadow of a doubt. Maybe him not playing some “fans†will realise the affect he has on this team and everything goes through him and he is a huge player for us.
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That is sad to hear mate. Not sure what kind of abuse he’s copped but whatever it is, it’s unacceptable.
Who do you replace him with Jacko?
My preference would be Brunt but I expect Barry to get the nod.
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Not too sure what people expect from fans ....or even players
I think it’s fair to say that there have definitely been grumbling about sawyers ...both on here and at the grounds, in fairness he is one of the more advanced technical thinkers and when it comes off looks great , when it doesn’t , it looks awful.
Over the last few weeks (esp at home) the crowd are getting very restless and vocalising the “need to get it forward quickerâ€....and then frustration when we do go quicker and it doesn’t work....so whilst not agreeing with the noise makers, I get why they make the noise (if that makes sense)
In terms of just yesterday....0-2 , away from home, against a decent team, in the position we are in....I don’t care if you are Zidane and someone mentions your sister, you have to keep your head , you have to look at the situation, had we been 3-0 down and with serious provocation I would have understood it, but at that point in the game it was silly, unprofessional and at its worst a risk to our season.
Based on that , I also understand people venting.....we have all done it at some stage, but after a nights sleep I’m sure the fan base will in the main return to supporting each of our players , regardless of opinion on individuals skill/potential .
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My preference would be Brunt but I expect Barry to get the nod.
Just on legs alone I can’t see him going with either
I’ve seen posts previously about swapping player for player x after 60 mins....you cannot go in to a match knowing that you have to swap players because sendings offs, injuries then become compounded
I think he puts furlong back in, slides O’Shea across and pushes semi in to midfield
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2 weeks for him to take a break and hopefully come back firing on all cylinders for the run in.
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Across the next two games I would drop Krovinovic back into the 6 role and bring Harper into the 8 alongside Livermore. I don't think Brunt or Barry have the legs to do 2 full 90's in a week nor do either replicate Sawyers ability on the ball.
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Across the next two games I would drop Krovinovic back into the 6 role and bring Harper into the 8 alongside Livermore. I don't think Brunt or Barry have the legs to do 2 full 90's in a week nor do either replicate Sawyers ability on the ball.
I have a feeling we might drop Jake back into Sawyers role and move Pereira more central alongside Krovinovic with Grosicky replacing Pereira in the front three.
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I have a feeling we might drop Jake back into Sawyers role and move Pereira more central alongside Krovinovic with Grosicky replacing Pereira in the front three.
Please no, keep the formation Just bring in Rakeem he has the abillity BUT just needs to show the desire and for fork sake give Romaine a brack i mean he is "One of our own"
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Please no, keep the formation Just bring in Rakeem he has the abillity BUT just needs to show the desire
The formation would be exactly the same. No way (IMO) will Bilic play Harper in Sawyers role, Harper isnt that type of player nor does he have the maturity in his game. Barry would be a more likely option but he's not properly fit. Brunt is the other option.
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Romaines twitter statement was a bit strange.
No doubt footballers get horrendous things written about them all the time online but to react with an ambiguous statement suggests maybe he was a little wound up about more than just that particular incident.
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2 weeks for him to take a break and hopefully come back firing on all cylinders for the run in.
Hopefully, it’s seemed to have worked for Pereira
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I think he puts furlong back in, slides O’Shea across and pushes semi in to midfield
I think that's a possibility, on the other hand, with Furlong & Townsend as part of a back four, you would lose the balance that Bilic speaks of.,
I think we might see one or two different combinations over the three games Sawyers is out of the team.
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The whole incident appeared very innocuous. It seemed he was trying to play for a free kick to kill the game when it would have been far easier to play a simple pass and stop the situation from materialising.
I initially thought he has raised his hands in the ‘give me a hug gesture’ rather than any malicious intent. It then seemed that O’Dowda caused a storm in the tea cup and then said something to ignite Sawyers. Romaine is so laid back that it would take something extremely offensive to gauge such a reaction from him. It then seemed to spark a mele on the pitch and on the bench.
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He wa shielding the ball and the Bristol player kicked out at him when he was nowhere near making a challenge.
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At the time I thought the ref had a chance to stop it happening to begin with, just before it happened Swayers was “tackled†and he kind put his arms out as if to say thats a foul but it wasn’t given, from there is just escalated
Can’t do what he did and get away with it, moment you raise your hands to a players neck/face area it’s gong to be a red, I don’t really get his over reaction to being sent off either, at the time I thought he has got to have been harshly sent off or something said for him to react like that, but no complaints from me
However with what he’s tweeted it’s disappointing if fans have been giving him abuse or having a go at him, he did something stupid but it didn’t cost us
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I suspect Romaine is all too aware that he has not been performing at the level he was and there will be personal frustration which gets exaggerated when strangers also comment adversely on it, but that’s what being a pro footballer has to live with now sadly
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My preference would be Brunt but I expect Barry to get the nod.
No surprise there, face it Brunt is finished, time for up and coming
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Can we keep this on Sawyers please and discuss who replaces him in the lovely topic Liam has provided for you all.
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Because of the way that Sawyers is able to shield and turn with the ball away from his marker (even when his marker is hacking at him like Paterson) he stops his defence from panicking and enables the team get in position to build an attack. It's of little use to "get it forward" if there's no one ready to receive it and the opposition have packed two close lines of defence against you. It's necessary to get to the byline, pull them out of shape or play the killer pass. When you try a killer pass against a packed defence, you must expect that high percentage will not come off but probably more than lumping it over the top which is meat and drink for most EFL defences. Surely this is the lesson that English teams learnt from playing against European sides decades back.
Stoke were able to concentrate forces on Sawyers as we didn't play Flip from the off and Pereira was suspended that's why they got the points.
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Sawyers gets some unbelievable abuse at times, 99% unwarranted. Only fault for me is the sloppiness at times especially in dangerous areas when a hoof will do.
Has no-one considered that he isn't having the effect recently he had at the start of the season as other clubs have become wise to us and close him down at every opportunity possible leaving him with no option but to play it sideways and at times behind? He does still get the odd decent ball forward as he did at Reading for the Pereira goal, he always said he was the one who assists the assister or words to that effect.
A player we have needed for a long while yet now we have the best midfield duo since Mulumbu and Yacob its still not enough it seems.
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Yesterday highlighted his influence and importance in this team.
A good footballer, able to keep the ball and dictate the game
We missed him yesterday..
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Yesterday highlighted his influence and importance in this team.
A good footballer, able to keep the ball and dictate the game
We missed him yesterday..
You've answered a question I posed in the after match debate thread. So' ill go and delete it.
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Harper was great on Tuesday but yesterday showed how hot and cold he can go. Sawyers goes straight in on Saturday for me.
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Harper was great on Tuesday but yesterday showed how hot and cold he can go. Sawyers goes straight in on Saturday for me.
Harper was nowhere near "great" on Tuesday. He was Ok nothing better than that.
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Harper was nowhere near "great" on Tuesday. He was Ok nothing better than that.
Agreed.
He was average Tuesday but yesterday not making him solely responsible but he was very poor.
I can’t see him at the club next season personally regardless of what division we are in.
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I'm hoping that the upside of Romaine's 3 match ban, will result in him coming back into the team refreshed and with a new lease of life, similar to what happened with Matheus
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I'm hoping that the upside of Romaine's 3 match ban, will result in him coming back into the team refreshed and with a new lease of life, similar to what happened with Matheus
That's what I'm hoping for. I think this ban has made us realise how much we miss him in his absence. We need him to go back to what he was during the opening 12 games or so of the season.
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On Saturday we missed the controlled possession that Sawyers gives us at the base of the midfield. It also highlights the fact that we don't have a like replacement.
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On Saturday we missed the controlled possession that Sawyers gives us at the base of the midfield. It also highlights the fact that we don't have a like replacement.
The mistake we made was expecting Livermore to be able to perform the same role when, sadly, he cannot pass a football. Barry would have been a far more suitable replacement and you could have kept Livermore in the role he was fulfilling so manfully previously instead of shifting the entire midfield around to accomodate Harper.
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The mistake we made was expecting Livermore to be able to perform the same role when, sadly, he cannot pass a football. Barry would have been a far more suitable replacement and you could have kept Livermore in the role he was fulfilling so manfully previously instead of shifting the entire midfield around to accomodate Harper.
Everybody was underpar Saturday. Harper and Krov were missing for most of the time they were on the pitch. When Livermore did get the ball he was surrounded and had zero options. It's also why we were overrun in midfield. The reason we didn't click in midfield Saturday was not because Livermore kept giving the ball away.
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Everybody was underpar Saturday. Harper and Krov were missing for most of the time they were on the pitch. When Livermore did get the ball he was surrounded and had zero options. It's also why we were overrun in midfield. The reason we didn't click in midfield Saturday was not because Livermore kept giving the ball away.
the whole team kept giving the ball .too much lofting it from the back and more importently lifting it in the air up to kanu he's not going to win many headers againt tall defenders the few times we kept it on the deck we looked good .credit to wigan though defended well and are on a good run can't win em all
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I only saw about half an hour of a stream before it went down, but it looked like our back 4 was very square and the wide players stayed out, which let them flood the midfield - Harper put in a shift but was basically bypassed and Livermore, who looked knackered after 10 mins, was overwhelmed.
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Word for Sawyers today. Looks like the break might have fired him up as he was back to his best. Keeping the flow of passes ticking through from the back. What helps make us a better team than the Route 1 football from the Pulis era.
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Word for Sawyers today. Looks like the break might have fired him up as he was back to his best. Keeping the flow of passes ticking through from the back. What helps make us a better team than the Route 1 football from the Pulis era.
but so many on here said he needed to be dropped? laughable.
when he plays everything goes through him. the difference when he is in the team compared to when he is not and Harper is in is massive.
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but so many on here said he needed to be dropped? laughable.
when he plays everything goes through him. the difference when he is in the team compared to when he is not and Harper is in is massive.
No offence but the poster said that the rest looks like it had the desired effect, your response about people wanting him dropped....argues and agrees ?
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No offence but the poster said that the rest looks like it had the desired effect, your response about people wanting him dropped....argues and agrees ?
yes he did and was spot on, i was referring to previous comments on here a few weeks back constantly slating him and saying he needed to be dropped.
as per first post, the difference when he is in the team compared to when he is not and harper is back in is absolutely huge.
maybe those people will notice now finally what he does for the team. when he plays, everything goes through him.
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https://twitter.com/playmaker_EN/status/1254711203852664834 (https://twitter.com/playmaker_EN/status/1254711203852664834)
Stat.
Best in the 2nd tier business at what he does.
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https://twitter.com/playmaker_EN/status/1254711203852664834 (https://twitter.com/playmaker_EN/status/1254711203852664834)
Stat.
Best in the 2nd tier business at what he does.
Not in the same league as Dorrans at his best though mate
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Not in the same league as Dorrans at his best though mate
Played in different positions. Sawyers a far better holding mid. Dorrans a better attacking mid.
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What's everyone opinions on him?
Personally he frustrates the F out of me and seems to 'stat pad'. By that I mean it's where he seems more bothered about pass percentage completion etc than ever actually driving forward and taking a risk.
I don't buy that it's his "game" because he's not strong at all or really a defensive midfielder.
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Needs to shoot more. One goal for a attacking player with such acclaimed accuracy isn't great is it.
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looks lazy never rated him but we are worse without him
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Pick of our lot today with Pereira fading.
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Thought he had to many touches and slowed us down when breaking out.
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I thought he was fine today, no complaints from me. 7/10.
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Needs to shoot more. One goal for a attacking player with such acclaimed accuracy isn't great is it.
He doesn't play in an attacking role for us.
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Quite right he's not an attacking midfielder in the goalscoring sense he's what I call a trickover player keeps it rolling forward etc.
I was at Wigan away and Bilic told him to get forward more and shoot at goal but its not his game ,so don't expect it.
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It is very simple Sawyers is a deep sitting playmaker.
His role is to pick up the bulk of the balls from the back four, keep possession and progress it forward. When we are in possession further up the pitch his role is to offer a pass to those in possession and recycle the ball. His role is not an overtly defensive player like Yacob which is to some extent he needs to be partnered with a couple of athletic 8's.
Anything you get from him in terms of impact in the final third is a bonus.
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Agree with every part of this. If partnered with a ball winner like Harrison Reed of Brentford we would have an effective midfield.
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Agree with every part of this. If partnered with a ball winner like Harrison Reed of Brentford we would have an effective midfield.
Sawyers sits in front of the back four and links the play with the rest of the midfield. His midfield partner needs to be a box to box player with an attacking threat not another defensive midfielder. Livermore has the energy to press the opposition and to put himself about but is rubbish footballer, can’t trap the ball, pass or shoot and has no vision. I’d rather see Krov alongside Sawyers against teams like Birmingham that put ten men behind the ball, we could have won yesterday had we been more adventurous and taken the hand break off, too defensive in our picks. If we’d gone with Dianganna, Grosicki on either wing with Krov alongside Sawyers and Perriera in front then I can’t see how we would not have won the game comfortably.
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Thought yesterday that he had too many touches before releasing ball thus our most effective player Perreira seemed to drop deeper than usual to look for ball. Needs to get his head up and get his passes of quicker.
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Thought yesterday that he had too many touches before releasing ball thus our most effective player Perreira seemed to drop deeper than usual to look for ball. Needs to get his head up and get his passes of quicker.
Totally agree but I notice he also lost the ball due to holding onto it to long and he has done that plenty of times this season. For me he needs to forget his passing accuracy which everyone bangs on about and go a little direct at times and just release the ball.
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Honestly would rather have Gareth Barry walking everywhere than him. Always will support a player at a game but I just do not see it with him.
He cannot do anything within 30 yards within the opposition goal and he’s a midfielder? Be a defender then.
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Doesn't do it for me too slow and needs to be dropped, Harper and Barry for me next game but Bilic hasn't got the bottle.
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Don't see the problem. I think he's one of our better players.
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Doesn't do it for me too slow and needs to be dropped, Harper and Barry for me next game but Bilic hasn't got the bottle.
Sawyers is too slow for you? But you call for Barry?! What planet you on? ..... would you still prefer Harper too after his ineffective appearance tonight?
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Very ordinary tonight again. Doesn’t look like the player who at the start of the season was head and shoulders above everyone else and who controlled the pace of the game.
The most frustrating thing for me? His inability to tackle. Does he really have to push everyone over? At what stage does he stop and think? He strikers me as an intelligent bloke so I don’t get it.
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Sawyers is too slow for you? But you call for Barry?! What planet you on? ..... would you still prefer Harper too after his ineffective appearance tonight?
I can see why Harper struggled tonight, our shape was awful and whilst I think sawyers can play football..there are some games not set up for him...this was one
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For someone with ball control and manipulation, His shooting is woeful, Not Yacob woeful but still bad.
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Very ordinary tonight again. Doesn’t look like the player who at the start of the season was head and shoulders above everyone else and who controlled the pace of the game.
The most frustrating thing for me? His inability to tackle. Does he really have to push everyone over? At what stage does he stop and think? He strikers me as an intelligent bloke so I don’t get it.
needs dropping
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Sawyers is too slow for you? But you call for Barry?! What planet you on? ..... would you still prefer Harper too after his ineffective appearance tonight?
Gareth Barry can shoot, Sawyers end product for a midfielder is embarrassing. It’s like the he’s a non scoring striker agument.
I hope he bloomin comes good he plays for Albion!
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Sawyers is too slow for you? But you call for Barry?! What planet you on? ..... would you still prefer Harper too after his ineffective appearance tonight?
Midfield has been ineffective in last four games Barry and Harper did a job last season, Sawyers slows are game down by taking too many touches and offers nothing going forward. Livermore looks shot after two games oh yeah I'm on plant earth space man.
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Midfield has been ineffective in last four games Barry and Harper did a job last season, Sawyers slows are game down by taking too many touches and offers nothing going forward. Livermore looks shot after two games oh yeah I'm on plant earth space man.
I take it you haven't seen how poor Barry has been this season then? God knows what you've been watching if you think our midfield needs Gareth Barry at this point of his career.
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We have a very talented pool of midfielders to choose from so it's very disappointing we look so poor in that department.
Krov isn't starting for some strange reason
Pereira is on a different level to any else.
Livermore and Sawyers are still in lockdown.
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I take it you haven't seen how poor Barry has been this season then? God knows what you've been watching if you think our midfield needs Gareth Barry at this point of his career.
and have you seen how bad our midfield has been in last four games with no attacking intent. Barry sits in front of back four with Harper giving us a bit of pace.
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Sawyers has been slow and ponderous all season, which is an opinion that has often been chastised here when i've stated as much. Ironically had an "ok" if not good game today compared to Livermore and Phillips though.
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Sawyers does need dropping, so does Livermore
Barry is not a serious option
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I like Sawyers but at the same time he did get over-hyped by our fans earlier on in the season and any form of criticism on here got shot down instantly which was wrong.
At his peak he was a joy to watch and controlled games from the middle, it helped that his style is flamboyant at times which earned him more fans. But he's been off the boil for a while now, before lockdown included. I actually thought the Birmingham game was one of his best in a while, but after Brentford it was clear he's too slow in possession at times which can harm us.
I don't think there's any harm in dropping him as he's going through a bad spell which happens to players all of the time and I'm sure he'll come back stronger. But for now I'd put Krovinovic in for him or even Harper. In my view Krov has got better this season which has timed well with Sawyers' decline in form. At the same time I felt Harper was great last season and was harshly dropped after signing a new deal with us (I believe at the time he could have gone to Spurs etc).
Anyway, my point is I think Bilic loves Sawyers and because of this he's borderline un-droppable at times. It's odd because if he can drop big names like Austin and Phillips he should be able to do the same with Sawyers.
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I’ll need to take a closer look as for me he’s not doing that much wrong.
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Sawyers does need dropping, so does Livermore
Maybe (I don't agree), but the trouble is there is no one to replace them, our midfield cover is awful. Barry has gone and is no option, Brunty, well all know about and Harper is not good enough for a team aiming to be top 2.
Arguably Brunty could cover in Sawyers position in a 433 for a game or two, I think we'd probably get away with that but that's about the only possible change I can see without it having a bigger affect than we can afford.
Look at when Sawyers was suspended we had to bring Harper in and rearrange the midfield.
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He does seem a bit off the boil now, hopefully we will all wake up this week.
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I wonder how much practise the likes of Sawyers do when it comes to shooting from around the edge of the box. I would hope quite a bit. He seems to have the Chris Brunt gene where for someone you think should be able to get a high proportion of shots from the edge of the box on target but some reason....
We know Sawyers is laid back in style but he genuinely doesn't seem to get his body weight over the ball enough when he shoots. Surely someone at the club can show him a montage of his goal efforts and get him to work on his technique and target hitting success rate. Maybe it's a slight lack of composure when the opportunity arises ....the eyes light up
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His style seems too laid back imo. Looses possession cheaply and nowhere near his form at the start of the season.
At the moment both he and Livermore look out of sorts, but then again so do a lot of other players
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Can't remember Sawyers losing possession too many times against Brentford - I thought less than any other Albion player. In fact that's his strength in that his back four can give him the ball and he can turn away from an opposition player and protect the ball. He generally gives it to one of his own team. It's true that opposition teams have been pressing further up the pitch against us; they can target Sawyers sometimes with two men because Livermore is not going to be any danger to them.
I would welcome having Krovinovich starting in a 3-man midfield. I don't think Harper has the positional sense or energy to be a midfielder, some nice tricks and that's about it. To replace Livermore who is a ball-winner we would need to find someone like Harrison Reed of Fulham and Nick Powell of Stoke. So Livermore has to stay until a replacement is found. Is there anyone coming out of the academy?
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Good performance tonight - he ran the show and the screened the back four well.
It makes a massive difference when we provide options for him to pass too.
The first half was too pedestrian and there was very little movement with Diangana and Pereira coming to the ball meaning everything was played in front of Wednesday. Sawyers then is forced to pass sideways and backwards.
Second half with the introduction of Robinson was much different and allows Sawyers to be at his best. Robinson stretches the game and allows Sawyers to bring the ball forwards and play through those lines into Krovinovic and Pereira. More importantly, we look much better for it.
He’s a rolls royce in midfield at times. Such a confident footballer with the ball.
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Did well tonight. Is he now suspended though?
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Did well tonight. Is he now suspended though?
No - next ban is at 15 cards
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No - next ban is at 15 cards
How many does he have?
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Love watching him play. If you step back for a second and look at what he offers, he is outstanding and the kind of player I’ve wanted us to sign for years. The number of times he gets us out a tight spot with a clever pass is unreal. I think we should appreciate him for what he is, and I really hope we get up so that we can see him in the premier league.
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I like him for sure. Not sure how good he would do in the premier league, especially given that we would almost certainly be a struggling team with many backs to the wall displays needed.
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No - next ban is at 15 cards
How many does he have?
10 now after weds
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Love watching him play. If you step back for a second and look at what he offers, he is outstanding and the kind of player I’ve wanted us to sign for years. The number of times he gets us out a tight spot with a clever pass is unreal. I think we should appreciate him for what he is, and I really hope we get up so that we can see him in the premier league.
Yes...when he’s on it
But with him and Livermore in a middle 2 we just lack something.
Mulumbu/yacob...that’s the dynamic we need
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Can see why he’s spent this long without getting to the Premier League, the Championship is his ceiling for me. Not enough goals or assists and I don’t feel his defensive game is strong either. Feels like a luxury player to me and this has been further emphasised due to our lacklustre strike force as he’s been unable to offer anything to pick up the slack.
Just to clarify he comes across as a top bloke and I love his passion for the club but purely from a footballing perspective I fail to see what he offers us if we make it to the Premier League.
Thoughts?
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Think this leagues is his level, for me he would struggle in the Prem (as would a few of our other players)
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Can see why he’s spent this long without getting to the Premier League, the Championship is his ceiling for me. Not enough goals or assists and I don’t feel his defensive game is strong either. Feels like a luxury player to me and this has been further emphasised due to our lacklustre strike force as he’s been unable to offer anything to pick up the slack.
Just to clarify he comes across as a top bloke and I love his passion for the club but purely from a footballing perspective I fail to see what he offers us if we make it to the Premier League.
Thoughts?
I thought his defensive deficiencies were bought right to the fore in the last 20 mins yesterday he is one of the players who should have shown leadership but abdicated responsibility . He loses runners and even when he does actually get himself into a position to jockey an opponent he can’t do it . Whilst he gets a lot of plaudits for his passing a lot of it is sideways and backwards and he actually slows us down . As you can tell I don’t think he is a premier league player .
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In my opinion Sawyers is a good championship player however he would struggle in the premier league, unfortunately that goes for the majority of our current squad.
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In my opinion Sawyers is a good championship player however he would struggle in the premier league, unfortunately that goes for the majority of our current squad.
And then we wonder what the benefit would be to those players of winning promotion?
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For me, Sawyers is a key cog in the side and will be going forward. He dictates the tempo and plays penetrative passes, he plays deep so not all of these are assists but he is vital to the beginning of our attacks.
He is however very weak defensively and I think he needs a midfield built around him to compensate for that. Our setup against Derby where we didn't have all of the possession with Livermore deeper than him is probably something we will replicate more and more, starting on Tuesday and certainly should we achieve promotion.
I'd hope that Sawyers can improve his game, deep lying playmakers generally improve in their later years.
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And then we wonder what the benefit would be to those players of winning promotion?
The only benefit would be if you take the Norwich approach, go up without spending, secure financial security for three years and come back down in 12 months with a decent championship squad.
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A luxury player who bottles tackles and doesn't get enough assists or goals for me. Great eye for a pass but alot of the opponents play comes threw Romaine.
This
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Easy on the eye and passes a lovely ball but needs to remember his defensive duties.
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Said in the match thread yesterday that he and Harper haven't got a tackle in them combined. Can never be played together again without a defensive midfielder there to cover them.
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Said in the match thread yesterday that he and Harper haven't got a tackle in them combined. Can never be played together again without a defensive midfielder there to cover them.
The frustrating thing for me is you don't even need to make a tackle most of the time. Just track your man, cut out passes, position yourself correctly. He is a passenger when we don't have the ball which is probably why he's been deployed behind the striker most of his career, unfortunately he doesn't assist or score enough for that role. He's undeniable good at passing and he always makes himself available for team mates but he really does need to improve that aspect of his game.
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I think he's excellent at keeping us ticking over, moves the ball around tidy and once in possession he's very good at making use of the ball. I agree with those that he doesn't quite do enough defensively - to be honest, if he had a good tackle in him, he'd be playing at the top top level as he'd be an amazing defensive midfielder.
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Totally agree. As stated when it comes to off the ball play he is most definitely a passenger. Thats why the game turned when Livermore went off. Livermores not a great player as such but he's the only one who gets stuck in outside the defence.
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Team is absolutely crying out for an extremely limited CM who is a scrapper. We need a Claudio Yacob player. Wins the ball, lays it off. Job done.
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Totally agree. As stated when it comes to off the ball play he is most definitely a passenger. Thats why the game turned when Livermore went off. Livermores not a great player as such but he's the only one who gets stuck in outside the defence.
That's why he has to play every minute possible. As you say Livermore is the only midfielder we have with any sort of physicality. Whatever division we are in next season we have got to be active for a couple of midfielders in the transfer window.
I'm not convinced by Sawyers in the Premier. In the Championship he's fine with the right players around him.
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I agree Atomic although funnily enough Sawyers might be better suited to the PL as it's not as intense IMO. Would definitelty need a DCM next to him no matter what though.
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That's why he has to play every minute possible. As you say Livermore is the only midfielder we have with any sort of physicality. Whatever division we are in next season we have got to be active for a couple of midfielders in the transfer window.
I'm not convinced by Sawyers in the Premier. In the Championship he's fine with the right players around him.
I just don't think that's going to happen - too many other positions need fixing first. We need at least 3 strikers as I don't think even the best of our current 3 would be anything other than 4th choice. So we're looking at needing at least 2 good quality forwards to fight for first choice - not cheap, plus a backup. Throw in a keeper for sure. I'm not convinced by our defence at all, you could maybe make a claim that L\RB's are ok, but CH wise we look chaotic.
Between those you're looking at 5 or so players for sure, if we go for 1 new CH to pair with Hegazi. Then we'll need to replace Diangana if we can't sign him. So I think between Sawyers, Livermore and Krov we'll see those positions as well down the pecking order for some spending.
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Plenty of money left over from this season. We vastly underspent from the budget hence the 3 rubbish strikers. Enough to cover Pereira and Krov too if we sign him. So IF we go up we'd have next seasons budget for a couple of strikers, a new GK, DCM and a CB at the very least.
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Sawyers has been one of the disappointments of the season for me.
When we signed him I thought he would make more of an impression than he has.
For a midfield player he has not scored enough, assisted enough and basically created enough or even had enough shots. These are basic requirements from midfield players even defensive midfielders.
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Sawyers has been one of the disappointments of the season for me.
When we signed him I thought he would make more of an impression than he has.
For a midfield player he has not scored enough, assisted enough and basically created enough or even had enough shots. These are basic requirements from midfield players even defensive midfielders.
Hegazi has hit more forward passes than him, takes too many touches of ball and will more than likely give a sideways or backward pass.
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I really don't rate him. I think it's very easy to have a high pass percentage when all you do most of the time is pass it sideways or backwards. I think alot of sides have realised they can breeze past him and that's caught us out on occasion.
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not a fan and never rated him
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I thought his defensive deficiencies were bought right to the fore in the last 20 mins yesterday he is one of the players who should have shown leadership but abdicated responsibility . He loses runners and even when he does actually get himself into a position to jockey an opponent he can’t do it . Whilst he gets a lot of plaudits for his passing a lot of it is sideways and backwards and he actually slows us down . As you can tell I don’t think he is a premier league player .
I don’t think he abdicated responsibility. He was just overrun. We conceded the whole of the midfield and expected Sawyers to do the job of two or three men. Foolish from the management team to have expected Sawyers to protect the back four and instigate our attacks on his own.
Is he premiership quality? Time will tell...
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I really don't rate him. I think it's very easy to have a high pass percentage when all you do most of the time is pass it sideways or backwards. I think alot of sides have realised they can breeze past him and that's caught us out on occasion.
That's why I don't take much notice of pass completion stats.
In defence of Sawyers though sometimes his sideways /back wards passing is just a way of keeping possession and keeping the ball moving but it does seem to be his default setting, I wish sometimes he'd just put his foot on the ball and look up for the forward pass.
I have been disappointed with him generally but agree with the poster that said he might look better in the PL as he will have more time.
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That's why I don't take much notice of pass completion stats.
In defence of Sawyers though sometimes his sideways /back wards passing is just a way of keeping possession and keeping the ball moving but it does seem to be his default setting, I wish sometimes he'd just put his foot on the ball and look up for the forward pass.
I have been disappointed with him generally but agree with the poster that said he might look better in the PL as he will have more time.
His pass percentage are as follows (based on the official clubs website on his player profile)
Forward passes 34%
Left passes 26.2%
Right passes 26.5%
Backward passes 12.7%
Not sure where people are getting the idea from that he always just passes backwards, simply not the truth. You can only pass where there's a player in space... people would go mental if he was making constant forward passes to get cleared straight away by the opposing defenders.
For me, he needs someone like a Yacob next to him to do the dirty work... If people think we are going to get someone in with the passing ability that Sawyers has but with the stopping, breaking down play quality etc that someone like Yacob could do they will be waiting a long time.
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His pass percentage are as follows (based on the official clubs website on his player profile)
Forward passes 34%
Left passes 26.2%
Right passes 26.5%
Backward passes 12.7%
Not sure where people are getting the idea from that he always just passes backwards, simply not the truth. You can only pass where there's a player in space... people would go mental if he was making constant forward passes to get cleared straight away by the opposing defenders.
For me, he needs someone like a Yacob next to him to do the dirty work... If people think we are going to get someone in with the passing ability that Sawyers has but with the stopping, breaking down play quality etc that someone like Yacob could do they will be waiting a long time.
I did say that he often passes sideways and backwards to retain possession. Don't think anyone said he just plays it backwards.
He does pass sideways or backwards 2/3 of the time though by the stats you've posted.
As I said it does seem to be his default setting (again backed up by your stats), sometimes there is a forward pass on but he doesn't look up to see it.
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I do like Romaine and I can accept how he plays passes so that the team retain possession.
But sometimes he is caught "flat footed" and doesn't react quickly enough to situations on and off the ball that puts us under pressure in all areas of the pitch, and I don't think that will ever change and he will be found out even more if we play in a higher division IMO.
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I did say that he often passes sideways and backwards to retain possession. Don't think anyone said he just plays it backwards.
He does pass sideways or backwards 2/3 of the time though by the stats you've posted.
As I said it does seem to be his default setting (again backed up by your stats), sometimes there is a forward pass on but he doesn't look up to see it.
Is there a comparison with the average midfielder in the league? I would say that most players passes in the modern game are sideways. It also depends on what forward passing opportunities he has. The good thing about Sawyers is he retains the ball and keep possession and doesn't just give it away or play a hospital pass to a team mate.
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Is there a comparison with the average midfielder in the league? I would say that most players passes in the modern game are sideways. It also depends on what forward passing opportunities he has. The good thing about Sawyers is he retains the ball and keep possession and doesn't just give it away or play a hospital pass to a team mate.
Again, I have said that I accept he often passes sideways and backwards to keep possession (read my original post) My issue is that he rarely looks up for the forward pass to see whether it's on or not.
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Plenty of money left over from this season.......
I think a fair old chunk of any previous underspend will have been eaten into by Covid' and it's fallout.
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That's why I don't take much notice of pass completion stats.
In defence of Sawyers though sometimes his sideways /back wards passing is just a way of keeping possession and keeping the ball moving but it does seem to be his default setting, I wish sometimes he'd just put his foot on the ball and look up for the forward pass.
I have been disappointed with him generally but agree with the poster that said he might look better in the PL as he will have more time.
I think the oft used comment that you get more time on the ball in the premier league is totally incorrect. Just my view...
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I think the oft used comment that you get more time on the ball in the premier league is totally incorrect. Just my view...
Depends entirely on who you are playing.
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Depends entirely on who you are playing.
Of course it does, but generally speaking I don't agree that you get more time. I repeat, it's just my opinion. The better players make their own time on the ball, at any level.
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Sawyers tends to make more sideways passes due to the lack of movement in front of him. Two of my biggest criticisms of our play this season is a lack of movement and a slow tempo.
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Wow. I must be watching a different team, I think Sawyers has been great. Stays deep and distributes. As for players closing down the opposition, the last few games, Grosicki has been leading the way on that front. He’s was making some brilliant interceptions and keeping the opposition penned in. Against Blackburn, it was his substitution that weakened the team, not Livermore. I wouldn’t put the blame at Sawyers door for that.
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Of course it does, but generally speaking I don't agree that you get more time. I repeat, it's just my opinion. The better players make their own time on the ball, at any level.
We better pray it happens if we stick with those two in the centre .
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Sawyers tends to make more sideways passes due to the lack of movement in front of him. Two of my biggest criticisms of our play this season is a lack of movement and a slow tempo.
This is how I see it, yet when we do play with a bit of tempo... teams just can't cope and we look very dangerous.
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Sawyers is class. One of my favourite players in a long time.
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Definitely one of our better players.
All this stick seems to stem from him getting brushed aside when he got caught under the ball near the end for the Blackburn chance.
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Definitely one of our better players.
All this stick seems to stem from him getting brushed aside when he got caught under the ball near the end for the Blackburn chance.
It doesn't stem from the Blackburn game as he's been criticised by some on several threads for a variety of reasons over the course of this season. Some of his criticism has been justified. On the other hand much of it has been pretty much laughable. Whilst I acknowledge certain aspects of his game could be better, overall I'm chuffed he's ours. Technically good player and I'd much rather have him with us than against us. There's so much to his game which seems to pass people by. Very subtle and intelligent with generally superb control.
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Imagine,you are the manager,you pick a goalie for obvious reasons,you pick someone you hope will score goals one or two who hopefully will make it difficult for the opposition to score a midfielder to cover box to box and score a few goals so why would you pick a player who regularly gets booked yet doesn't tackle has only made one assist and only scored one goal in a season because lets face it he is taking the place of another player who could do one of the aforementioned tasks.
When you look at these cold facts would you pick him if his name wasn't Sawyers but just a member of your squad?
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Imagine,you are the manager,you pick a goalie for obvious reasons,you pick someone you hope will score goals one or two who hopefully will make it difficult for the opposition to score a midfielder to cover box to box and score a few goals so why would you pick a player who regularly gets booked yet doesn't tackle has only made one assist and only scored one goal in a season because lets face it he is taking the place of another player who could do one of the aforementioned tasks.
When you look at these cold facts would you pick him if his name wasn't Sawyers but just a member of your squad?
Unfortunately I think Slav has his favourites, and I think Sawyers falls into that category.
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Sawyer's is superb at keeping us ticking over. He's always available for the defence and most of our play is started by him. It's Sawyers being good at his job, and Livermore being good at his, that allows Periera, Diangana, Grosicki, Robinson to have the freedom they do.
Sawyer's isn't beyond criticism, he could certainly be better when we don't have the ball, but it's wrong to think he offers nothing to the team.
Goalkeeper, defence, and striker are where the team is weakest.
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Defence apart we only have Livermore who can "mix" it. Harper tends to go around barging into people and therefore conceding lots of fouls, Romaine and Krov are more skill based than physicality biased.
I'm not going to include Barry and Brunty for obvoius reasons
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Imagine,you are the manager,you pick a goalie for obvious reasons,you pick someone you hope will score goals one or two who hopefully will make it difficult for the opposition to score a midfielder to cover box to box and score a few goals so why would you pick a player who regularly gets booked yet doesn't tackle has only made one assist and only scored one goal in a season because lets face it he is taking the place of another player who could do one of the aforementioned tasks.
When you look at these cold facts would you pick him if his name wasn't Sawyers but just a member of your squad?
Who would you pick to replace Sawyers?
player stats (https://www.foxsports.com/soccer/west-bromwich-albion-team-stats)
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Who would you pick to replace Sawyers?
player stats (https://www.foxsports.com/soccer/west-bromwich-albion-team-stats)
What those stats say to me is that we need another decent CM as an option off the bench.
Fox sports don't seem to know much about us though. Harper is listed as a forward and they have Austin as scoring only 1 penalty when he's scored at least 3 (sheff wed home and away and Preston away). Someone at Foxsports needs to be better at compiling stats
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One of our best players. Joy to watch. Always offers himself and finds an unexpected pass to move up the pitch. Often gets the ball in difficult positions and is strong and protecting the ball with his body or some neat footwork. Always seems to know where the rest of the team are. For me he’s the kind of midfielder I’ve wanted to see with us for years. Some like the busy box to box type, for me I’ve always loved the class footballers who can make a team tick and have great skill, accuracy and vision.
He’s not brilliant defensively and he’s not a goal scorer, but he’s excellent in his position and for the role he is asked to do.
Big fan and I think he could look even better on the ball in the premier league. I just hope he gets the chance to show it.
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Imagine,you are the manager,you pick a goalie for obvious reasons,you pick someone you hope will score goals one or two who hopefully will make it difficult for the opposition to score a midfielder to cover box to box and score a few goals so why would you pick a player who regularly gets booked yet doesn't tackle has only made one assist and only scored one goal in a season because lets face it he is taking the place of another player who could do one of the aforementioned tasks.
When you look at these cold facts would you pick him if his name wasn't Sawyers but just a member of your squad?
Sorry mate but that’s a bit of a daft post. You would pick him because he is essential if you want to have a possession based approach to the game. Seems like you are suggestion midfielders must be only defensive or box to box. There’s a bit more to it than that. Players like Hoddle, Beckham etc would have never got a look in if that was the approach.
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It doesn't stem from the Blackburn game as he's been criticised by some on several threads for a variety of reasons over the course of this season. Some of his criticism has been justified. On the other hand much of it has been pretty much laughable. Whilst I acknowledge certain aspects of his game could be better, overall I'm chuffed he's ours. Technically good player and I'd much rather have him with us than against us. There's so much to his game which seems to pass people by. Very subtle and intelligent with generally superb control.
I meant this latest round of criticism targeting his passing and general play, despite him having a good game aside from that defensive lapse. ;D
He's not a snotter and isn't great at the dirty work (though his positioning defensivelyi s excellent), but tbh I've had my fill of centre mids (nay, players in general) who run around a lot with little to no technical ability. Give me a Sawyers over a Livermore, Fletcher/Barry (at the stage of their careers we got lumbered with them), Gardner, McClean, Sandro, Baird, Field, etc.
Plenty of Albion fans didn't rate Krychowiak, which generally tells me all I need to know.
Hope you're keeping well mate.
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I meant this latest round of criticism targeting his passing and general play, despite him having a good game aside from that defensive lapse. ;D
He's not a snotter and isn't great at the dirty work (though his positioning defensivelyi s excellent), but tbh I've had my fill of centre mids (nay, players in general) who run around a lot with little to no technical ability. Give me a Sawyers over a Livermore, Fletcher/Barry (at the stage of their careers we got lumbered with them), Gardner, McClean, Sandro, Baird, Field, etc.
Plenty of Albion fans didn't rate Krychowiak, which generally tells me all I need to know.
Hope you're keeping well mate.
Fair play.
Keeping well this end and I hope the same applies to you and yours. Trying to keep away from the pre match thread though. The sound of knocking knees is driving me to distraction and ear defenders are rarely a good look.
As for Romaine he's quality, just a pity his painting kit came without a tackle. On the other hand not many artists paint with a monkey wrench. It's all about what you're there to do though.
Our Polish sightseer would have been a wonderful addition if he'd have been anywhere near fit on arrival, had the right players around him and had been used correctly. Fish out of water with us for the most part unfortunately.
Stay safe and enjoy the match later, I'm really looking forward to what should be a good game and an opportunity to put a little extra distance between us and the chasing pack.
All of the very best 8) .
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I meant this latest round of criticism targeting his passing and general play, despite him having a good game aside from that defensive lapse. ;D
He's not a snotter and isn't great at the dirty work (though his positioning defensivelyi s excellent), but tbh I've had my fill of centre mids (nay, players in general) who run around a lot with little to no technical ability. Give me a Sawyers over a Livermore, Fletcher/Barry (at the stage of their careers we got lumbered with them), Gardner, McClean, Sandro, Baird, Field, etc.
Plenty of Albion fans didn't rate Krychowiak, which generally tells me all I need to know.
Hope you're keeping well mate.
That plenty of Albion fans have a different opinion to you?
Clearly Krychowiak is a good player but he wasn't a good player for us. That may have been the way we used him or that he couldn't get to grips with the Premier league I don't know but he was a shadow of the player he was before and after he played for us.
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That plenty of Albion fans have a different opinion to you?
Clearly Krychowiak is a good player but he wasn't a good player for us. That may have been the way we used him or that he couldn't get to grips with the Premier league I don't know but he was a shadow of the player he was before and after he played for us.
No, that they can't spot a decent player if their life depended on it.
There were PLENTY that didn't think this key fact (in bold). Cheers for the reinforcement.
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No, that they can't spot a decent player if their life depended on it.
There were PLENTY that didn't think this key fact (in bold). Cheers for the reinforcement.
Staggering arrogance that Jacko, I think it was more that they could see that he wasn't a good player for us.
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Staggering arrogance that Jacko, I think it was more that they could see that he wasn't a good player for us.
Is it though? I see belters on Twitter, hear absolutely embarrassing shouts up the Shrine, I won't get started on fb, and it's no different on here. Some people just don't understand the game, as long as they derive enjoyment from it, that's not a problem.
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Our Polish sightseer would have been a wonderful addition if he'd have been anywhere near fit on arrival, had the right players around him and had been used correctly. Fish out of water with us for the most part unfortunately.
I can think of one or two like that over the years Dan, Borja Valero & Serge Gnabry to name just two
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Watching Sawyers is like buying a used car. It looks and drives pretty well, but has a few dents and scratches, doesn't detract from the overall beauty though, so you accept that it's imperfections, because, if it was perfect, you wouldn't afford it anyway.
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Look no further than the manager at the time as to why Krychowiak struggled during his time with us. Clearly a good footballer just not a 6 foot 6 centre half ;D
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I can think of one or two like that over the years Dan, Borja Valero & Serge Gnabry to name just two
All signed close to the end of the window if I recall (including Krychowiak). You tend to get players that are unfit, had no preseason or coming back from injury. Austin is this seasons example. It's no wonder they struggle.
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Sawyers contribute f@@k all. Has no meaningful impact on the game. I find it inexplicable that he gets such a free ride! Slows us down going forward and a liability at the back
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Always shows for the ball but not enough cutting passes made and defensively well i can't find the words.
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Sawyers contribute f@@k all. Has no meaningful impact on the game. I find it inexplicable that he gets such a free ride! Slows us down going forward and a liability at the back
Have to say I thought he played well tonight, kept us ticking over. Misplaced passes a couple of times but otherwise looked good. Still can't tackle though.
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Woeful, no awareness on the ball and constantly putting us in trouble. I like him but he's undroppable and it's infuriating, thankfully we didn't lose though.
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Yeah, looking at the difference between their DM (Reed?) was crazy. Sawyer's much more comfortable on the ball but Reed broke up our play and made several super important challenges.
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Haha, what? controlled the game tonight. Comfortably in our 3 best players today.
Yeah, looking at the difference between their DM (Reed?) was crazy. Sawyer's much more comfortable on the ball but Reed broke up our play and made several super important challenges.
The comparison for Reed is Livermore. I honestly wonder if some people are on here on the WU.
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Watching Sawyers is like buying a used car. It looks and drives pretty well, but has a few dents and scratches, doesn't detract from the overall beauty though, so you accept that it's imperfections, because, if it was perfect, you wouldn't afford it anyway.
Doffs cap. Spot on.
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Sawyers is a liability forever been bailed out by Livermore who was superb tonight couldn't tackle is way out of a paper bag he is so frustrating.
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Sawyers is a liability forever been bailed out by Livermore who was superb tonight couldn't tackle is way out of a paper bag he is so frustrating.
Christ. Worst take I've ever seen on here.
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Thinks he's Messi when he clearly isn't, offers nothing going forward with tooooooooo many touches of ball and 99 times out of hundred will pass the ball backwards or side ways. Hegazi has more influence on our attacking play than him.
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He actually did one brilliant piece of defensive work in the first half but his overall problem is slowness. He can't run very fast at all which means attackers go past him easily and too slow on the ball so he occasionally gets caught.
Fulham have better players than nearly every team in this league and they pressed well, he struggled. I fear for him in PL (if he ever plays in it).
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Thinks he's Messi when he clearly isn't, offers nothing going forward with tooooooooo many touches of ball and 99 times out of hundred will pass the ball backwards or side ways. Hegazi has more influence on our attacking play than him.
It's not often I agree with you but this is spot o......... ermmmm
Hull Baggie. This is what I'm talking about.
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Some of the posts here are insane. Anybody ever thought that Sawyers key balls aren't always forwards because of our forwards?!
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Is it though? I see belters on Twitter, hear absolutely embarrassing shouts up the Shrine, I won't get started on fb, and it's no different on here. Some people just don't understand the game, as long as they derive enjoyment from it, that's not a problem.
Haha, nail on the head with this one. I stopped replying to it a couple of seasons ago when I had people telling me HRK was a better striker than Rondon, there's a difference of opinion and then there's just being wrong.
Sawyers' positioning is very good but he's awful at defending. Our midfield problem is that Livermore's off the ball strengths are nowhere near as good as Sawyers' on the ball strengths.
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Thinks he's Messi when he clearly isn't, offers nothing going forward with tooooooooo many touches of ball and 99 times out of hundred will pass the ball backwards or side ways. Hegazi has more influence on our attacking play than him.
Cant get over this take. He was easily one of our best players on the pitch too today.
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Thinks he's Messi when he clearly isn't, offers nothing going forward with tooooooooo many touches of ball and 99 times out of hundred will pass the ball backwards or side ways. Hegazi has more influence on our attacking play than him.
Explain why he thinks he is Messi. Seriously - what has he done to make you think that? He doesn’t play even remotely the same position for a start.
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I find some of the views on Sawyers strange, he is important to us and good on the ball. I'd love to see a plot of the progressive (forward passes) for Championship midfielders with the pass accuracy, I'd imagine Sawyers would feature quite highly.
He does have weaknesses; we need someone better defensively or a different structure in midfield alongside him. Someone got it spot in when they said that Livermore isn't as good defensively as Sawyers is on the ball.
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Explain why he thinks he is Messi. Seriously - what has he done to make you think that? He doesn’t play even remotely the same position for a start. Laughable.
I think the quote means he plays with too much confidence which I agree with. For instance today he turned in our box on the ball which was dangerous. On the one hand you could say it was good awareness and it looked slick, but on the other hand I've seen him do it this season and get tackled, giving opponents dangerous possession which can lead to goals. On the ball he often fakes a touch and lets it bobble ahead of him. Again, when it works it looks nice but he often loses possession with this and whilst aesthetically pleasing it's not actually that functional.
Obviously he isn't the same role as Messi but I get the point, he lingers on the ball as if he is technically good enough to get out of tight spots etc like Messi, which often results in losing possession.
As I've said before on here I think he's been good this season but it baffles me as to why he's the only player that can't get dropped whilst the likes of Diangana, Krov, O'Shea, Harper etc all get dropped for far less.
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I think the quote means he plays with too much confidence which I agree with. For instance today he turned in our box on the ball which was dangerous. On the one hand you could say it was good awareness and it looked slick, but on the other hand I've seen him do it this season and get tackled, giving opponents dangerous possession which can lead to goals. On the ball he often fakes a touch and lets it bobble ahead of him. Again, when it works it looks nice but he often loses possession with this and whilst aesthetically pleasing it's not actually that functional.
Obviously he isn't the same role as Messi but I get the point, he lingers on the ball as if he is technically good enough to get out of tight spots etc like Messi, which often results in losing possession.
As I've said before on here I think he's been good this season but it baffles me as to why he's the only player that can't get dropped whilst the likes of Diangana, Krov, O'Shea, Harper etc all get dropped for far less.
Christ, someone comfortable on the ball, what next? Someone two footed? :-X
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Cant get over this take. He was easily one of our best players on the pitch too today.
what game were you watching we had no control of midfield with Fulham dominating ball and when we did have chance to break inevitable he would slow play down and we'd lose initiative.
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Explain why he thinks he is Messi. Seriously - what has he done to make you think that? He doesn’t play even remotely the same position for a start. Laughable.
mate ever heard that saying when you were nipper at school when bloke wouldn't pass the ball thinks he's Pele or Maradona in my day just wanted to keep it relevant for younger generation. Bloke takes too many touches and doesn't play ball forward quick enough.
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Cant get over this take. He was easily one of our best players on the pitch too today.
disagree he wasn't even our best midfielder today with Livermore doing more.
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I think the quote means he plays with too much confidence which I agree with. For instance today he turned in our box on the ball which was dangerous. On the one hand you could say it was good awareness and it looked slick, but on the other hand I've seen him do it this season and get tackled, giving opponents dangerous possession which can lead to goals. On the ball he often fakes a touch and lets it bobble ahead of him. Again, when it works it looks nice but he often loses possession with this and whilst aesthetically pleasing it's not actually that functional.
Obviously he isn't the same role as Messi but I get the point, he lingers on the ball as if he is technically good enough to get out of tight spots etc like Messi, which often results in losing possession.
As I've said before on here I think he's been good this season but it baffles me as to why he's the only player that can't get dropped whilst the likes of Diangana, Krov, O'Shea, Harper etc all get dropped for far less.
Fair enough. Don’t agree but no issue with your view. The only thing I’d observe is that it reads as though you suggest he often loses possession. But as far as I can recall he very rarely loses possession, especially when you consider he tends to have the majority of touches most games. That’s my reading of it anyway.
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mate ever heard that saying when you were nipper at school when bloke wouldn't pass the ball thinks he's Pele or Maradona in my day just wanted to keep it relevant for younger generation. Bloke takes too many touches and doesn't play ball forward quick enough.
But he's 3rd for AVG passes per game in this league with the best pass success rate... so not quite sure how you come to that theory.
When we've got a slow Austin against a back four, it kind of limits where to pass the ball to moving forward. Unless people just want our players to hit and hope knowing Austin is never going to beat a player for pace/speed... The like of Pereira and Diangana always have multiple players marking them.. someone of Sawyers quality ain't just going to pass the ball for the sake of it to stop the fans moaning is he knowing its going to lose us possession.
If people can't see he's been one of our better players majority of the season then that just tells me they don't a good player when they see one.
Who would have thought us having a young player confident on the ball, unreal passing ability and passion for our club would make people complain so much ???
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I think Sawyers is one of the big differences from last season. Remember trying to play the ball out with players who were clearly uncomfortable on the ball? Sawyers is comfortable on the ball and he provides that important link between the keeper or defenders and further up the pitch. That helps the team keep possession.
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Agree with the last two posts. He's an important link - when he's got the ball there's not much wrong with his game. He's just not quite as good defensively as you'd like for someone in that position. Compare to Fulham's Reed who was playing the same role.
The point about Austin is correct - none of our strikers move a lot to create space. So 2 CH's can easily cover him. That leaves forward passes for Periera if he's in the middle and Livermore. The wingers are too far out wide so it's easy for an oppo midfield to keep it congested in there. Our best bits of play tend to be playing it into Periera who then looks for an early ball out wide for a runner. Tough tactic to keep up though.
I'd like Diangana\Grosicki to come infield more and the fullbacks to push on. But neither full back are quite good enough going forward.
I don't think our tactics are *that* wrong, just that the personnel playing them make it difficult. No idea how to change it because for the life of me I can't see any of the strengths our strikers have that we can play to. We need to rely on midfielders scoring.
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I really like our boy Sawyers
But I think that the position he plays for us is the only one he can play.
I like the calmness but if he loses the ball in a deep defensive position it’s a massive situation for our Defence with the opposition running straight towards our goal.
Then I don’t think he can play any further forward either his final Defence splitting pass isn’t there
The finally he couldn’t hit a barn door shooting at goal.
So he either has to improve his defensive duties or stay behind for extra shooting practice for a few hours.
How a pro footballer cannot hit the target is beyond me but I do like him and when we are promoted he’ll have to sharpen up his game a lot.
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Agree with the last two posts. He's an important link - when he's got the ball there's not much wrong with his game. He's just not quite as good defensively as you'd like for someone in that position. Compare to Fulham's Reed who was playing the same role.
The point about Austin is correct - none of our strikers move a lot to create space. So 2 CH's can easily cover him. That leaves forward passes for Periera if he's in the middle and Livermore. The wingers are too far out wide so it's easy for an oppo midfield to keep it congested in there. Our best bits of play tend to be playing it into Periera who then looks for an early ball out wide for a runner. Tough tactic to keep up though.
I'd like Diangana\Grosicki to come infield more and the fullbacks to push on. But neither full back are quite good enough going forward.
I don't think our tactics are *that* wrong, just that the personnel playing them make it difficult. No idea how to change it because for the life of me I can't see any of the strengths our strikers have that we can play to. We need to rely on midfielders scoring.
Wingers are better when they mainly stay wide. (Johan Cruyff's motto: when we have the ball spread it wide, when the opposition have it, stay compact). When wingers come inside they clog up the space, get in one another's way and its easier to get blocks in. However, I'm a strong believer in overlapping full backs. I've seen Brentford score 6 or 7 goals recently using this formula (included against us). Benrahma gets it wide left, waits for the full back to overlap, waits for him to drag defenders out of position, then gets a dangerous cross in or goes for it himself.
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I agree, at the moment though we're too one dimensional as our wingers always stay outwide - there isn't a lot of room for the fullbacks to overlap (or even a point as we're usually too deep at this point in the play). Even once the winger gets the ball, if they're just inside the oppo's half they don't have any forward options. It's why they so often end up playing it sideways or backwards. Essentially without a lot of movement from the striker, it's too easy for the oppo to keep us at arm's length.
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Heard many of the same criticisms with Jonathan Greening when he played a similar role for us. At least we have some degree of balance in midfield these days.
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Greening was better than Sawyers though, and played most of his career at the highest level. I wish we had him now.
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He played well yesterday. Took a silly chance near the end by holding onto the ball just outside our box that I was fuming with him for, but generally decent performance, got the ball into the front four a lot second half.
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He’s an integral member of this side - there is nobody capable of playing the role he does.
We’re criticising someone because he can control the football, hold onto the ball, move and dribble with the ball & more importantly, pass the ball.
The team should be built around him.
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Stick a proper midfielder alongside him in place of Captain Can'tpassico and you would probably see a marked difference.
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Stick a proper midfielder alongside him in place of Captain Can'tpassico and you would probably see a marked difference.
Sawyers nzonzi krovinovic
Now that would be some midfield
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What has happened here? He used to pretty much never lose the ball, now for some reason his passing is terrible - and thats if he actually gets a pass off. More often than not he seems content to play at walking pace and get tackled in the process. It's utterly bizarre.
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Probably the worst performance iv seen anyone put in an Albion shirt.
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What has happened here? He used to pretty much never lose the ball, now for some reason his passing is terrible - and thats if he actually gets a pass off. More often than not he seems content to play at walking pace and get tackled in the process. It's utterly bizarre.
Seems happy that Brentford are going up
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My worry was always that he was a championship player. At 27 you should be in the top flight, even as a late developer. I said it 2 years ago when first linked with him and said it again in the summer.
He started the season and I thought I was wrong, but after Christmas, I realised it was exactly the case. At his best, he is the definition of rolls royce footballer, but when you need more character, he just can't do it.
Not a winner. Fun to watch a times, intelligent, keeps you ticking, but not a winner.
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Too slow, too many touches on ball and offers nothing going forward I'd be willing to let him go this summer not good enough.
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My worry was always that he was a championship player. At 27 you should be in the top flight, even as a late developer. I said it 2 years ago when first linked with him and said it again in the summer.
He started the season and I thought I was wrong, but after Christmas, I realised it was exactly the case. At his best, he is the definition of rolls royce footballer, but when you need more character, he just can't do it.
Not a winner. Fun to watch a times, intelligent, keeps you ticking, but not a winner.
Perfect summary. He’s a sunny day footballer, but when the storm comes he won’t stand up and be counted.
He was a decent signing in terms of us redesigning our style and getting the ball back on the deck but sadly he comes out the wrong side of every tight battle and his passing went under pressure too.
He has absolutely no ability to read when the tempo needs to pick up, which for this team was about 4 weeks ago.
He’s not the only one, but I’m disappointed in him because he had the ability to prove himself but has let himself down IMO.
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Dreadful. Should have been hooked today and on many occasions.
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He's got no bottle, or experience of the situation. Brunt had to play more of a part post lockdown and will now be key in the play-offs.
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Awful again. Should have been hooked, not Livermore.
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Never rated him from day one. Backwards sideways passing that's it.
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I wrote a scathing report about a week ago and you can see why.
You might as well take the field with ten men if you pick him yet he has only missed a couple of games this season and one of our scribes likened him to Beckham and Hoddle who also scored goals.
Every time he plays he is taking the place of a player who has the skill to score goal or make them or breaks the opposition's moves down and tonight he almost gave a penalty away with a petty off the ball trip.
Unless he goes through a personality change he should never play for us again.
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If you could choose any Albion player to take on in a punch up it'd be Sawyers. His tackling is weaker than my 5 year old nephew's, mind you he is Yacob the second.
A liability tonight, Sawyers, very over-rated for me.
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He's got no bottle, or experience of the situation. Brunt had to play more of a part post lockdown and will now be key in the play-offs.
Your match predictions up to this point have been next to useless 😉, but you know what, I think you're right that Brunt is our best hope now.
Brunt is a winner. 2 promotions and a good international career.
At this point, he has to be a better option than Sawyers who looks shot.
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Another pooh waste of space. Take about 3 touches before playing a very simple sideways pass. For some reason he seems untouchable
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absolute shocking performance tonight created nothing and can't tackle at least Livermore gives you the option of wining the ball further up the field with his pressing.
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Poor tonight but the guy hasn't had a break the whole of the restart, he is clearly knackered. I'd probably rest him vs QPR so he is fresh for the play-offs.
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Poor tonight but the guy hasn't had a break the whole of the restart, he is clearly knackered. I'd probably rest him vs QPR so he is fresh for the play-offs.
God help us then, he needs dropping full stop.
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Outstanding player. Poor game tonight though.
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Outstanding player. Poor game tonight though.
No he's not, he's massively over-rated, can't defend nor attack so what is his purpose? He dwindles on the ball too much, loses possession constantly, slows down our attack and then does a fancy, pointless pass from the outside of his boot and people still lap it up.
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Outstanding player.
He cant run, cant tackle, cant create, cant score goals, cant head the ball, cant shoot.
Hmmm.
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Outstanding player. Poor game tonight though.
Your definition of outstanding must be different to mine.
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Said it numerous times bloke offers nothing going forward, ponderous on ball and weak in challenge. Delighted when we signed him, local lad and all that but like big Dave has become a disappointment on return to club.
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How he played 90 today I don't know he was awful. He just goes sideways and backwards. Should have tried krovonovic over him
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Early in the season, it was clear, Sawyer’s keeps us ticking over and generally, when he played well, so did we.
The second half and in particular since the restart, he’s been useless. Too casual and always stuck in first gear. In hindsight (pointless) if Slav insists on the midfield two, then have Livermore be the deep lying cm breaking up play and protecting the back four with Krov providing the creativity and attacking. We line up and play like a team teetering on the edge of relegation, not promotion.
Sawyers may do better in the Prem where we will need the defensive two and someone to get us ticking. Reading that over, ignore it. We won’t be in the Prem and Sawyers would be terrible there.
Still fuming.
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Sawyers has been out of his depth since Christmas and that has been magnified even further since the restart. Ive never seen a player so casual and laid back take 3 touches or more to play a simple sideways pass. It completely slows play down.
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Too slow always goes backwards or sideways never forward when he gets a shooting opportunity he either bottles it or sky’s it
he should have been dropped to the bench ages ago .
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He’s been hiding in 2/3 last games. I like Sawyers but some of the 50:50 he dodged yesterday were, at times, pathetic. I gave him a pass for Blackburn as Harper hindered him, yesterday however no excuses and I at least Krovinovic did not hide and won most 50:50s.
Our loans strangely play with more passion at times.
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I think he is a very good player but yesterday was awful and 100% needed replacing with Brunty.
I think he needs a break. If we want to move forward with him then him and Livermore isn’t the partnership.
He doesn’t tackle or win headers. His positional sense is great so he does make interceptions but he needs to be alongside somebody like Yacob in my humble. Or even better Reed from Saints.
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Like a number of players that have done well Sawyers looks burned out and out of form.
You have to question whats going on
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Like a number of players that have done well Sawyers looks burned out and out of form.
You have to question whats going on
think the warm up is too strenuous for these pampered professionals
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Like a number of players that have done well Sawyers looks burned out and out of form.
You have to question whats going on
I don't think they're physically drained, but they are mentally.
Brentford pressure on us finally told last night.
I also think there was a lot of s&**thousery going on last night which we didn't see
Willock, Bacuna & Stearman all had personal agendas against us, & weren't the Cowley brothers considered for Bilic's job?
Both Willck & Bacuna had hardly featured until last night.
Not saying it should have mattered to a pro-sportsman, but it was added pressure.
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I think Sawyers is physically drained. He covers a lot of ground making himself available to link things together.
When we are being swarmed like we were yesterday, he doesn't have many options for progressive passes. He's not a player to make hit and hope passes and I don't think that's what Bilic wants anyway. Yesterday's performance was probably as much an issue with lack of energy and movement from those around him (plus an outnumbered midfield) as it was down to Sawyers himself.
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Sawyers is a difficult one, i'm a big Sawyers fan and all the criticism for the way he plays is way ott at times, he's playing how he has always played, one major difference is the front 3 he had at Brentford and what he has in front here, yesterday he was poor but not alone which is why its amazing how certain players are being picked out when it was an abysmal performance all round.
At times the midfield is too close together and theres no-one making runs so its all tippy tappy passing.
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Sawyers is a difficult one, i'm a big Sawyers fan and all the criticism for the way he plays is way ott at times, he's playing how he has always played, one major difference is the front 3 he had at Brentford and what he has in front here, yesterday he was poor but not alone which is why its amazing how certain players are being picked out when it was an abysmal performance all round.
At times the midfield is too close together and theres no-one making runs so its all tippy tappy passing.
Yup, I agree with the comments being over the top sometimes - he was especially poor last night I think. All players have bad games but it's down to the manager to spot that. Sawyers had a terrible first half last night but Bilic put more reliance on him second half rather than less by removing Livermore.
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I think he is a good player, but sometimes he gives you the impression that he is too relaxed, chewing his gum.
But, I bet it hurt him most last night because he really is one of our since birth.
I see what some say about him passing sideways, but that imo is more to do with the movement in front of him, as he has it in his game to play great forward passes.
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Sawyers is a difficult one, i'm a big Sawyers fan and all the criticism for the way he plays is way ott at times, he's playing how he has always played, one major difference is the front 3 he had at Brentford and what he has in front here, yesterday he was poor but not alone which is why its amazing how certain players are being picked out when it was an abysmal performance all round.
At times the midfield is too close together and theres no-one making runs so its all tippy tappy passing.
Agreed. Nobody played well yesterday.
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Ronnie is at his best when players in front of him run into spaces when that doesn't happen his play suffers by having to play backwards to much like yesterday's game.
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Ronnie is at his best when players in front of him run into spaces when that doesn't happen his play suffers by having to play backwards to much like yesterday's game.
Yeah, the movement needs to start at the top as space ripples down. Periera can't find any space as it's too congested. We end up passing it sideways and once it ends up at our LB\RB they're a bit slow\ineffective on the ball.
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The way we play is based on passing through the midfield. Sawyers fits into that system.
Of course he could launch the ball 30 yards up to the forwards, but the team is not set up to play that way and we would lose possession about 95% of the time to an organised group of defenders.
However, he should always be looking for the forward pass rather than the sideways one, especially when we are chasing the game.
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Worth a read. For the many on here that were knocking him, he was clearly feeling the pressure.
One of our best players this year and I can’t wait to see him in the new season.
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/07/29/exclusive-boyhood-baggie-romaine-sawyers-living-his-west-brom-dream/
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Worth a read. For the many on here that were knocking him, he was clearly feeling the pressure.
One of our best players this year and I can’t wait to see him in the new season.
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/07/29/exclusive-boyhood-baggie-romaine-sawyers-living-his-west-brom-dream/
For what it’s worth, I thought he was brilliant against QPR. Seemed to get the ball forward a lot more and have a little more license
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For what it’s worth, I thought he was brilliant against QPR. Seemed to get the ball forward a lot more and have a little more license
I think he's been brilliant throughout the season but clearly the pressure got to him post-lockdown. Reading that though it's understandable, he really has the club at heart and to hear a footballer refer to themselves as a "fan" is something I can't remember for a long time.
In top 3 players for me this season and, hopefully, will kick on next year and be key to further success.
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If a high % of his passes are square or backwards, frankly I don't care, far rather that than lumping it forward for oppo centre-halves to immediately recycle back against us.
We (most of us) detested Pulisball and if this is part of the evolution away from it, then excellent. As others have said we will need more mobility up front next season and also ball retention will be imperative when we are subjected to "the press"
There may well be a case for Sawyers being a "player suited to the prem" on this basis.
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There is also an in the Birmingham snail that shows how much he is one of our own, and why I therefore find very hard to criticise him.
States how proud he is to go up with his team and how much it means to him and his family.
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If a high % of his passes are square or backwards, frankly I don't care, far rather that than lumping it forward for oppo centre-halves to immediately recycle back against us.
We (most of us) detested Pulisball and if this is part of the evolution away from it, then excellent. As others have said we will need more mobility up front next season and also ball retention will be imperative when we are subjected to "the press"
There may well be a case for Sawyers being a "player suited to the prem" on this basis.
Those that complain about sideways passing literally don’t understand the game. If we are playing a possession based style where we try and move the opposition around to create space then we have to do exactly what Sawyers does. He is essential. When he can he always plays a forward pass, and when he can’t he helps move the ball on and finds a new position to take the ball back and try again.
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Done enough to deserve a decent run next season, whether his dodgy backtracking/tackling will be a liability too far, we shall see
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I think Sawyers has been a quality addition - what we lacked in terms of linking up play from the back to front. I think he suffered like a few in midfield when we had a very static front line which means he has to look side wards too much. He reminds me of Greening - obvious quality and cool on the ball but needs a 'minder' beside him to help with the defensive side of the game.
My theory with him and Krovinovic is that they will be more suited to the premier league where they'll get more time on the ball (we'll see). The key for our midfield is to ensure we have plenty of pace and movement up front for him and others to aim at. He's in my top three players this season overall..............also he really understands the club - more than a typical mercenary who we may get for 100k a week wages and offer little more (Krychowiak springs to mind! )
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Slav calls him his metronone
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I want to love one of our own I just honestly think he’s lazy and does not work hard enough for this team at all. Don’t buy the link up between defence and midfield to attack. He stands around to much and jogs when should be busting a gut to get there.
Livermore needs a new partner in CM
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Garbage so far today. Stop chewing, start watching the game and tackling.
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Was disappointed with him today, doesn’t impose himself on the game at all.
Re the first goal, he didn’t shower himself in glory. You can’t just stand there blocking the sun from your eyes, you’re not on the beach mate
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Was disappointed with him today, doesn’t impose himself on the game at all.
Re the first goal, he didn’t shower himself in glory. You can’t just stand there blocking the sun from your eyes, you’re not on the beach mate
hasn't got the legs for this league I'd play Harper instead, been poor for months.
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Don't know what is he doing for the 1st goal, seems that he is not willing carry out the defense duty.
I think Field deserves a chance to prove himself next game.
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His deficiencies will be well shown up this season. We'll get done in midfield every game now we're up against proper opposition every time. No more walking around popping easy passes when we're on top and not doing much else. Was well over-hyped by Don Goodman et al last season and I think some fans actually believed the hype. He's not the only one who's not good enough for this league (in that position at least) but he's one of the most obvious. Shouldn't take Slaven too much longer for the penny to drop, hopefully.
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His deficiencies will be well shown up this season. We'll get done in midfield every game now we're up against proper opposition every time. No more walking around popping easy passes when we're on top and not doing much else. Was well over-hyped by Don Goodman et al last season and I think some fans actually believed the hype. He's not the only one who's not good enough for this league (in that position at least) but he's one of the most obvious. Shouldn't take Slaven too much longer for the penny to drop, hopefully.
The penny had dropped with a few of the supporters months ago , I cannot see how something so obvious has escaped bilic , does he honestly think sawyers is going to be a premier league player ?
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The penny had dropped with a few of the supporters months ago , I cannot see how something so obvious has escaped bilic , does he honestly think sawyers is going to be a premier league player ?
I doubt he does, however he doesn’t have the funds available to make us competitive.
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His deficiencies will be well shown up this season. We'll get done in midfield every game now we're up against proper opposition every time. No more walking around popping easy passes when we're on top and not doing much else. Was well over-hyped by Don Goodman et al last season and I think some fans actually believed the hype. He's not the only one who's not good enough for this league (in that position at least) but he's one of the most obvious. Shouldn't take Slaven too much longer for the penny to drop, hopefully.
The penny may drop.
But there is bugger all else to choose from.
He will play every week because there is nobody else to pick!
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The penny may drop.
But there is bugger all else to choose from.
He will play every week because there is nobody else to pick!
This.
Then Harper comes on. Sorry but he is League one level. Field should be on the bench ahead of him every single time.
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The only real difference between Sawyers and Livermore is Sawyers can keep possession. Neither can defend. Livermore throws himself into more last ditch challenges but is brain dead at picking up runners and give the ball away for toffee.
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This.
Then Harper comes on. Sorry but he is League one level. Field should be on the bench ahead of him every single time.
Neither Harper or Field should be playing in the premiership. Shocked when Harper was subbed on and Grosicki, an experienced international winger with pace was left out.
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Neither Harper or Field should be playing in the premiership. Shocked when Harper was subbed on and Grosicki, an experienced international winger with pace was left out.
Field is better than Harper and they are who we have to choose from.
Grosicky is better than Edwards so dont understand that sub either. Not that it mattered in the end but I dont want to see this becoming a regular thing.
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Maybe the manager should have identified centre-mid as the most important position to strengthen then before signing anyone else? Or did he think Sawyers was already good enough? Or maybe Bilic could do what other managers do and pick a formation to suit the players you have at your disposal. I know we don't have a lot of money to spend but that doesn't excuse the manager for playing a player in a position in a system in which he is pretty much totally ineffective. I'll be very worried about Bilic if we play Sawyers in that system again.
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hasn't got the legs for this league I'd play Harper instead, been poor for months.
Harper not nearly good enough. But neither is Sawyers
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This.
Then Harper comes on. Sorry but he is League one level. Field should be on the bench ahead of him every single time.
Harper has the similar problem with Sawyers, always try to avoid closing down the opponent or making tackles.
Agreed that Field should be on the bench, or even starts next game.
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Harper absolute rubbish Sawyers not Premier League
Hope we get Gallagher on board asap
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Harper absolute rubbish Sawyers not Premier League
Hope we get Gallagher on board asap
Wouldn’t it be easier to state who is premier league quality.
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Wouldn’t it be easier to state who is premier league quality.
Would not take too long.
Sawyers is particularly poor, that first goal was primarily him, lost the ball up the pitch to begin with then allowed it to bounce.
As said above, he will start because we have nothing else, but he is not the answer and even if we were to go down, I would want us to have better than him for following season
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Contrary to most other posters, I think Sawyers is Premier League quality, certainly on the ball. He is important for us to get the ball to Pereira, Diangana et al in space as opposed to when the opposition are back set with men behind the ball. Once he went off the ball got to them too slow or when our centre backs went back to front and without a target man that won't get us much joy.
He is very weak defensively, weak in the tackle and a poor marker - he loses his man far too easily. What we need to do is construct the midfield around his on the ball abilities and that means at least one, energetic and athletic ball winning midfielder - the same as we needed last yesr to be fair.
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Yup. Anyone who looks at our midfield and doesn't identify that Livermore is the problem quite simply doesn't understand the game.
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Contrary to most other posters, I think Sawyers is Premier League quality, certainly on the ball. He is important for us to get the ball to Pereira, Diangana et al in space as opposed to when the opposition are back set with men behind the ball. Once he went off the ball got to them too slow or when our centre backs went back to front and without a target man that won't get us much joy.
He is very weak defensively, weak in the tackle and a poor marker - he loses his man far too easily. What we need to do is construct the midfield around his on the ball abilities and that means at least one, energetic and athletic ball winning midfielder - the same as we needed last yesr to be fair.
Said it before st times last year I would have liked to see him have a game or two further forward.
Put another ball player next to Sawyers and you’ll see a better player, id be dropping Livermore before I dropped Romaine.
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Yup. Anyone who looks at our midfield and doesn't identify that Livermore is the problem quite simply doesn't understand the game.
We are in agreement, some sensible comments by baggiebof as well.
I think Livermore gets away with being consistently rubbish by playing the hardman routine of throwing himself into challenges, usually after he's just turned the ball over. Bloke takes no responsibility on the ball. Corner fell to Livermore first half on the edge of the box, obvious step to shot. Instead he plays a bizarre pass straight to a Leicester shirt.
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Contrary to most other posters, I think Sawyers is Premier League quality, certainly on the ball. He is important for us to get the ball to Pereira, Diangana et al in space as opposed to when the opposition are back set with men behind the ball. Once he went off the ball got to them too slow or when our centre backs went back to front and without a target man that won't get us much joy.
He is very weak defensively, weak in the tackle and a poor marker - he loses his man far too easily. What we need to do is construct the midfield around his on the ball abilities and that means at least one, energetic and athletic ball winning midfielder - the same as we needed last yesr to be fair.
I really like Sawyers and the way he kept the ball ticking over at times last year but can you carry a player with these weaknesses in the PL?
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Yup. Anyone who looks at our midfield and doesn't identify that Livermore is the problem quite simply doesn't understand the game.
Just absolutely wrong.
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Just absolutely wrong.
I agree with him. Livermore is awful, both in possession and without. Has relegation plastered across his football CV for a reason.
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Both awful today.
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I really like Sawyers and the way he kept the ball ticking over at times last year but can you carry a player with these weaknesses in the PL?
Would be interesting to see but without a proper midfield around him, we won't know. I can think of a few examples where it has worked but they're not generally sides who aren't likely to have as much of the ball as a newly promoted side. Fact is, Bilic seemingly wants to play this style and he is the central midfielder most suited so we must construct a midfield around him and hope it works.
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Both awful today.
They both had their well documented weaknesses exposed against a Champions League contender, not sure that's exactly the same thing
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Just absolutely wrong.
Right in my opinion. I think Livermore is terrible and is part of the spine of the team that has to be improved upon. Johnstone, Bartley, Livermore and a centre forward all need to be improved from what we have.
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I really like Sawyers and the way he kept the ball ticking over at times last year but can you carry a player with these weaknesses in the PL?
You might be able to, but you would need a very good defensive midfield enforcer type next to him, similar to Yacob/Kante/Mulumbu etc. It looks highly unlikely at this stage that we will be acquiring somebody to do that role, so instead we are left with the hard working but off the pace plodder Livermore next to him. With Livermore unable to shut down attacks quick enough, it exposes Sawyers lack of mobility and defensive acumen.
I said at the end of last season that Sawyers probably needs to revert to being an attacking midfield option if he's going to step up to this level, but with us trying to get Gallagher and Krov I don't think he will get that much game time by the end of the season.
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They both had their well documented weaknesses exposed against a Champions League contender, not sure that's exactly the same thing
I disagree, no doubt Leicester are a good team but they (JL RS) were dire. Took about 15 minutes for Livermore to do anything right. I know 'Sawyers thing' is that he is chilled and relaxed but off the ball his tackling and concentration are Sunday league standard.
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Why isn't Sawyers deployed as CAM as he was in Brentford if his Tackling and defense is so incredibly bad? He'd be forced to push the ball forward in this position no?
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Why isn't Sawyers deployed as CAM as he was in Brentford if his Tackling and defense is so incredibly bad? He'd be forced to push the ball forward in this position no?
YEs didn't he play a more attacking role at Brentford, thought i was imagining it.
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Why isn't Sawyers deployed as CAM as he was in Brentford if his Tackling and defense is so incredibly bad? He'd be forced to push the ball forward in this position no?
I would guess it is because he enables us to control the game and dictate the tempo.
He’s capable of playing through the lines and into Diangana and Pereira.
I would much prefer Sawyers instigating our attacks than say, a Livermore..
For his abilities on the ball, his qualities off it are poor. It’s staggering that we have not looked to address what is such a fundamental basis of the side
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He was awful yesterday. The one thing I cannot understand how can a professional footballer be on a pitch and chewing gum ! Surely if he was tackled he would risk choking on it !
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He was awful yesterday. The one thing I cannot understand how can a professional footballer be on a pitch and chewing gum ! Surely if he was tackled he would risk choking on it !
On yesterdays showing he was never close enough to the ball to get tackled
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One of our own but on yesterday's performance simply not good enough and if we get the lad in from Chelsea will be warming bench for majority of season.
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One of our own but on yesterday's performance simply not good enough and if we get the lad in from Chelsea will be warming bench for majority of season.
unless he is part of a 3 in midfield with Livermore & Gallagher (if we go 4-3-3).
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Just absolutely wrong.
What is Livermore good at?
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I want Sawyers to be a success, but we either find a system that protects us from his defensive frailties or he is out as far as I'm concerend.
And in my opinion don't think we will find this system with the players at our disposal. Not even the top teams have players that don't do the work going back nowadays. He will be exploited week in week out by teams knowing he cannot tackle or track runners. Hope I'm proven wrong.
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Romaine is one of our lads and Albion through and through.
The simple solution to get the best out of Romaine is to experiment with him as an attacking midfielder. Especially as this is a position he excelled at Walsall and Brentford under Gammonface.
Seeing as Bilic still doesn’t know his best system, I don’t see the harm in trying a new one which see’s Romaine as an attacking midfielder.
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Agreed, he must play more offensively for me.
He can't sit back he hasn't got a defensive bone in his body and thats what needed there even though he's not playing as DCM.
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What is Livermore good at?
He leads by example as a good captain should, he closes down, he tackles. He also played a good through ball for Periera yesterday.
Anyway back to Sawyers, I think he would be better playing more offensively but if we get Gallagher on loan would he play next to Livermore allowing Sawyers to play further forward as part of a midfield 3. Is Sawyers a better offensive player than Gallagher?
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He leads by example as a good captain should, he closes down, he tackles. He also played a good through ball for Periera yesterday.
Anyway back to Sawyers, I think he would be better playing more offensively but if we get Gallagher on loan would he play next to Livermore allowing Sawyers to play further forward as part of a midfield 3. Is Sawyers a better offensive player than Gallagher?
Those are things he does (well the last 2, the first is pardon my bluntness, nonsense, as is anything leadership based. Very few, if any, players throughout the history of the game are/were selected purely because they're supposed good leaders, it doesn't mean anything), not things he does well.
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Those are things he does (well the last 2, the first is pardon my bluntness, nonsense, as is anything leadership based. Very few, if any, players throughout the history of the game are/were selected purely because they're supposed good leaders, it doesn't mean anything), not things he does well.
Nobody said anything about him being selected just because he's a leader, although it's funny how many times it's been said about teams needing leaders on the park though isn't it?
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He leads by example as a good captain should, he closes down, he tackles. He also played a good through ball for Periera yesterday.
Anyway back to Sawyers, I think he would be better playing more offensively but if we get Gallagher on loan would he play next to Livermore allowing Sawyers to play further forward as part of a midfield 3. Is Sawyers a better offensive player than Gallagher?
Leads by example by giving the ball away for toffee! He can’t pass the ball. First half alone yesterday he gave it away four times in ten minutes. Livermore doesn’t offer anything. The only thing he’s consistently good at is collecting yellow and red cards - which is going to happen a lot more this season if he stays in the team.
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Leads by example by giving the ball away for toffee! He can’t pass the ball. First half alone yesterday he gave it away four times in ten minutes. Livermore doesn’t offer anything. The only thing he’s consistently good at is collecting yellow and red cards - which is going to happen a lot more this season if he stays in the team.
Scored more, assisted more, same yellows, less reds than Sawyers.
Remind me what did Sawyers do that was so good yesterday?
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Scored more, assisted more, same yellows, less reds than Sawyers.
Remind me what did Sawyers do that was so good yesterday?
Sawyers wasn’t good enough yesterday, albeit when he collected the ball he had very few players in front of him, as we’d tactically decided to fill our goal line with defenders. Regardless Livermore is still useless. He doesn’t become better the poorer Sawyers plays.
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Sawyers wasn’t good enough yesterday, albeit when he collected the ball he had very few players in front of him, as we’d tactically decided to fill our goal line with defenders. Regardless Livermore is still useless. He doesn’t become better the poorer Sawyers plays.
How can a player that scored 3 goals and 5 assists be described as useless when compared with a player that managed one of each?
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How can a player that scored 3 goals and 5 assists be described as useless when compared with a player that managed one of each?
Sawyers contributes far more than Livermore. It's plain for everyone to see. The game cannot be broken down into just goals and assists.
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Sawyers contributes far more than Livermore. It's plain for everyone to see. The game cannot be broken down into just goals and assists.
Contributing goals and assists is important though. You yourself used to use Brunt assist statistics to justify why you thought he should play.
Sawyers has something like a 90% pass completion rate but since most of his passes are short sideways and backwards passes I'd expect them to be high. I rarely see Sawyers play a decent forward pass.
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Contributing goals and assists is important though. You yourself used to use Brunt assist statistics to justify why you thought he should play.
Sawyers has something like a 90% pass completion rate but since most of his passes are short sideways and backwards passes I'd expect them to be high. I rarely see Sawyers play a decent forward pass.
Are you suggesting that Livermore has a more expansive passing range than Sawyers? Livermore is stronger, runs around more than Romain but plainly is an awful football with the ball at his feet. Even Stevie Wonder should have spotted that by now.
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Are you suggesting that Livermore has a more expansive passing range than Sawyers? Livermore is stronger, runs around more than Romain but plainly is an awful football with the ball at his feet. Even Stevie Wonder should have spotted that by now.
The insults start coming out when someone voices a different view.
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Sawyers contributes far more than Livermore. It's plain for everyone to see. The game cannot be broken down into just goals and assists.
No, it's plain for you to see, but not everyone agrees, me included.
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Are you suggesting that Livermore has a more expansive passing range than Sawyers? Livermore is stronger, runs around more than Romain but plainly is an awful football with the ball at his feet. Even Stevie Wonder should have spotted that by now.
In my opinion we need better than Livermore and Sawyers In the premier league.
However if Livermore is an awful footballer as you suggest why do so many managers continue to play him?
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Are you suggesting that Livermore has a more expansive passing range than Sawyers? Livermore is stronger, runs around more than Romain but plainly is an awful football with the ball at his feet. Even Stevie Wonder should have spotted that by now.
no, just pointing out that Sawyers high pass completion rate includes a large amount of sideways and backwards passes over a short distance.
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He leads by example as a good captain should, he closes down, he tackles. He also played a good through ball for Periera yesterday.
Anyway back to Sawyers, I think he would be better playing more offensively but if we get Gallagher on loan would he play next to Livermore allowing Sawyers to play further forward as part of a midfield 3. Is Sawyers a better offensive player than Gallagher?
Could use a 5-man midfield with Sawyers and Gallagher sharing the same two roles during a match. Sawyers attacking midfielder, Gallagher defensive midfielder and switch quickly as and when required. Or they just share the same position on as a one-on, one-off basis.
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Could use a 5-man midfield with Sawyers and Gallagher sharing the same two roles during a match. Sawyers attacking midfielder, Gallagher defensive midfielder and switch quickly as and when required. Or they just share the same position on as a one-on, one-off basis.
I think a 5 man midfield might be needed for some games, to be effective it would need the wide players to fall back though. I seem to remember we played a 4-5-1 under Hodgson a few times.
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System wasn’t setup for the midfield in that match against Leicester. Doesent excuse some poor defensive play but still, the point stands.
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no, just pointing out that Sawyers high pass completion rate includes a large amount of sideways and backwards passes over a short distance.
Fair enough. What should set alarm bells ringing with Livermore is that despite playing as the more advanced central midfielder last season he only got 3 goals and 5 assists in a team that scored as many as Leeds. Like say, jack of all trades, master of none.
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In my opinion we need better than Livermore and Sawyers In the premier league.
However if Livermore is an awful footballer as you suggest why do so many managers continue to play him?
He's useful for his physicality in the championship and a liability in the premiership. Pulis signed him, so no surprise he can't play any football and has got feet made out of lead. Pulis got sacked - after begging to be paid out of his contract. We then had a shambolic season and got relegated, after Livermore had replaced Yacob which was a massive mistake.
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I too, would like to see sawyers play further up the field. I feel he has it too easy passing around the back. I get he is supposed to be in some kind of quarterback role but he doesn’t get enough assists or break up enough play to warrant a place at the mo. The fact he has little competition for his place mean he’s not being challenged to provide more in games. I’d like to see him with his vision and eye for a pass, on the edge of the opponent’s box instead of ours.
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He's useful for his physicality in the championship and a liability in the premiership. Pulis signed him, so no surprise he can't play any football and has got feet made out of lead. Pulis got sacked - after begging to be paid out of his contract. We then had a shambolic season and got relegated, after Livermore had replaced Yacob which was a massive mistake.
Don't like Jake do you mate?
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Don't like Jake do you mate?
In his defence, what's to like?
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I think a 5 man midfield might be needed for some games, to be effective it would need the wide players to fall back though. I seem to remember we played a 4-5-1 under Hodgson a few times.
Yes we were well drilled in a 4, 5, 1 formation with Roy Hodgson. You could tell each player had a specific role which was carried out as instructed. Worked at over and over again on the training pitch. Effective.
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In his defence, what's to like?
Slapped a West Ham fan didn’t he? Love that.
I’ll be honest I didn’t see much of Sawyers at Brentford but if he was further forward let’s at least try him there then because he is not a CDM like we keep persisting with
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In my opinion we need better than Livermore and Sawyers In the premier league.
However if Livermore is an awful footballer as you suggest why do so many managers continue to play him?
These 2 points are basically it in a nutshell, neither is quite good enough for the Prem, Sawyers has quality but can't/won't tackle, Livermore is a fairly solid citizen about the park, but if he was a Top Trump card, what would his special quality be?
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Thought he was very good today. Took him ten mins to start seeing the ball but after that he was very good.
When he plays well we play well.
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Thought he was very good today. Took him ten mins to start seeing the ball but after that he was very good.
When he plays well we play well.
I agree. He can control and pass a football cleanly and intelligently. We move the ball around in possession much better when he is involved.
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Good footballer but would like to see him further up the pitch.
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Thought he was very good today. Took him ten mins to start seeing the ball but after that he was very good.
When he plays well we play well.
Agreed, obviously faded after the red card.
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Good footballer but would like to see him further up the pitch.
Agreed he just needs another midfielder behind him play the Yacob role and screen the defence.
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Very very good today in possession he needs to grab a hold defensively though you have to be good at both in the premier league. Put Gallagher in in the midfield with Jake & Romain we’l be competitive in the middle of the park.
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Almost right. Put him in the middle with Romaine and go from there. Livermore isn't the player he used to be.
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Not 100% sure what to make of Sawyers today. Neater in possession, but at times over run and turned, and did an appalling job defending one of their set piece goals where he visibly backed out of getting to the ball. You can’t do that at this level- this is the Premier League.
Will need to learn fast about the uglier side of the game if we are to compete better, or needs an ideal combination around him which I’m not sure we have.
Really really hope he proves himself and helps us be a better team though, nothing would please me more.
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He switches off all too easily and doesn't like to challenge for headers. We can't have him in the side if his only job is to make a few neat 6 yard passes when we have easy possession.
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He switches off all too easily and doesn't like to challenge for headers. We can't have him in the side if his only job is to make a few neat 6 yard passes when we have easy possession.
He shouldn't be given any marking role from free kicks or corners. Put him on the edge off the box to pick up the next phase of play.
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Keep the lad out the box wherever possible. He's awful at any aspect of defending.
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He has this very 'relaxed' way of playing which due to his ability at Championship level makes him an asset.
Currently his inexperience at this level means this relaxed way causes him and us problems at this level hes almost got to develop the understand the level hes playing at now to unlock the advantages of this 'relaxed' approach.
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He has this very 'relaxed' way of playing which due to his ability at Championship level makes him an asset.
Currently his inexperience at this level means this relaxed way causes him and us problems at this level hes almost got to develop the understand the level hes playing at now to unlock the advantages of this 'relaxed' approach.
I’ve seen this “relaxed way†mentioned a lot...
Other players (le tiss Berbatov,brunt,waddle) all had a relaxed way....but were pretty accurate/effective....yesterday facing his own goal, inside the six yard box , he laid a ball off straight to Calvert Lewin....that’s not relaxed, it’s just unacceptable.
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Thats exactly my point all three of those players were far better than Sawyers currently.
I for one am not sure he has the ability to play this way at this level but only time will tell, however its worth noting hes also no spring chicken so he may have to realise hes got to reign it in.
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He switches off all too easily and doesn't like to challenge for headers. We can't have him in the side if his only job is to make a few neat 6 yard passes when we have easy possession.
Thing is when we play well it tends to be because he's always available doing exactly that. Without him filling that role we probably wouldn't have the easy possession for as long. Yesterday we didn't keep possession for the sake of it, it usually led to a threatening attack.
Granted we will have to see how things progress and it is a bit heart in mouth when he has the ball deep inside our own area on occasions.
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Thing is when we play well it tends to be because he's always available doing exactly that. Without him filling that role we probably wouldn't have the easy possession for as long. Yesterday we didn't keep possession for the sake of it, it usually led to a threatening attack.
Granted we will have to see how things progress and it is a bit heart in mouth when he has the ball deep inside our own area on occasions.
So do we not utilise him against the bottom 8 clubs for that very purpose and replace him vs the others with an absolute beast in midfield ?
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Said it time and time again, put another ball playing midfielder next to him instead of Livermore and he will be better.
Think we will see a different player if he gets paired with Gallagher.
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Sadly RS has been poor both in last ten games of last season and total liability this season. No one wants him to do well more than me a d he might be hampered by being asked to do a role that does not suit him. That being said he should not be in the first xi either in 353 or 433 0r 4231. We have better options already -or at least options worth trying that cannot be worse
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Not his greatest fan but definitely improved yesterday with one lovely flick around the corner to set up an attack. Bilic needs to go with three in midfield with Field as the DM.
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So do we not utilise him against the bottom 8 clubs for that very purpose and replace him vs the others with an absolute beast in midfield ?
He did a good job yesterday, I'm not sure you'd class Everton as a bottom 8 club this year. Depends what the policy is. If we are sticking to footballing principles we don't want an absolute beast alongside Livermore, unless he happens to be a good footballer also.
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He did a good job yesterday, I'm not sure you'd class Everton as a bottom 8 club this year. Depends what the policy is. If we are sticking to footballing principles we don't want an absolute beast alongside Livermore, unless he happens to be a good footballer also.
Passing to Calvert lewin in our 6 yard box is certainly a “jobâ€
I’m struggling with the amount of posts that state that our players are the same as last year so therefore championship....but also many posts stating that sawyers is good enough for the prem...I think he’s ok (and somewhere in between) but he’d be behind
Gallagher
Krov
Pererira
Field
In the middle of the park...IMO
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last season I believed the early hype but i came to realise one goal ,few assists and not capable of winning the ball it became obvious he is not good enough.
Hovever last week he played further up the pitch and had one of his best games but today he reverted to type.
It is clearly not all his fault but while he was on the pitch we had no efforts on goal and could have conceded half a dozen while without him we had a couple of half chances and only conceded a wonder goal.
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last season I believed the early hype but i came to realise one goal ,few assists and not capable of winning the ball it became obvious he is not good enough.
Hovever last week he played further up the pitch and had one of his best games but today he reverted to type.
It is clearly not all his fault but while he was on the pitch we had no efforts on goal and could have conceded half a dozen while without him we had a couple of half chances and only conceded a wonder goal.
Whatever his limitations if he was next to peak Yacob he'd be well worth a place. His partnership with Livermore just doesn't work or make sense.
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I really miss Yacob. He wasn't a great footballer but he was fantastic at what he did.
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Whatever his limitations if he was next to peak Yacob he'd be well worth a place. His partnership with Livermore just doesn't work or make sense.
Yeah about right this.
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Whatever his limitations if he was next to peak Yacob he'd be well worth a place. His partnership with Livermore just doesn't work or make sense.
I’ve been saying we need a true defensive midfielder in all summer but you keep telling me we can just drop Livermore for a box to boxer in Gallagher.
I agree, Sawyers could just about get away next to a true Yacob/Mulumbu, but even then with every passing game Sawyers is looking more and more a championship player.
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I’ve been saying we need a true defensive midfielder in all summer but you keep telling me we can just drop Livermore for a box to boxer in Gallagher.
I agree, Sawyers could just about get away next to a true Yacob/Mulumbu, but even then with every passing game Sawyers is looking more and more a championship player.
The Livermore Gallagher swap would improve us as a team, wouldn't be perfect but would be a (imo) massive improvement.
The Yacob type player would totally fix midfield without having to eventually get rid of Sawyers.
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The Livermore Gallagher swap would improve us as a team, wouldn't be perfect but would be a (imo) massive improvement.
The Yacob type player would totally fix midfield without having to eventually get rid of Sawyers.
The three of Krov,Gallagher and Field would be a much better option.
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I’ve been saying we need a true defensive midfielder in all summer but you keep telling me we can just drop Livermore for a box to boxer in Gallagher.
I agree, Sawyers could just about get away next to a true Yacob/Mulumbu, but even then with every passing game Sawyers is looking more and more a championship player.
This. The player to drop would be Sawyers, he's a luxury at this level as his defensive work just isn't there.
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This. The player to drop would be Sawyers, he's a luxury at this level as his defensive work just isn't there.
Sadly, neither Livermore nor Sawyers are premier league quality. Livermore has been relegated 2 or 3 times now and Sawyers was starting to struggle in the championship second half of the season.
Sawyers is a wonderful championship player for a top half side. He isn't a prem player.
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Sadly, neither Livermore nor Sawyers are premier league quality. Livermore has been relegated 2 or 3 times now and Sawyers was starting to struggle in the championship second half of the season.
Sawyers is a wonderful championship player for a top half side. He isn't a prem player.
I don't think being relegated several times matters (Ben Foster has been relegated 4 times) however I do agree he and sawyers are more top championship players.
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Flat track bully unfortunately, looks good in the Champo in a good side but when he has to put hard yards in comes up short (including end of last year).
So slow and laid back on the ball giving it away in our own third time and time again is unforgivable at this level. Genuinely don’t know his role which is also at Slav’s door, not a ball winner not dynamic no defensive nous. Picks the odd good pass going forward to start attacks but should not be played in a 2 man midfield.
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I would say in a 433 if the midfield three had 2 sitting and 1 advanced that would be a role for Sawyers but he needs more urgency. That “languid style†isn’t coming across well.
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I'm still not sure he would be worth his place in a midfield 3. The defensive part of his game is lacking - so if you had 2 others sitting then Sawyers would be your luxury midfielder - he's not really good enough for that. If he's 1 of the sitting players, then the defensive part will cost you.
I do think he's very good when he's on the ball - and excellent at getting out of a tight corner.
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I'm still not sure he would be worth his place in a midfield 3. The defensive part of his game is lacking - so if you had 2 others sitting then Sawyers would be your luxury midfielder - he's not really good enough for that. If he's 1 of the sitting players, then the defensive part will cost you.
I do think he's very good when he's on the ball - and excellent at getting out of a tight corner.
People talk about us not having much money
But imagine if we had got Barkley on loan, sold Livermore/sawyers to finance it
Robinson/Deeney
Diangana. Krov. Barkley. Pererira
Gallagher
Not too shabby is it ?
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People talk about us not having much money
But imagine if we had got Barkley on loan, sold Livermore/sawyers to finance it
Robinson/Deeney
Diangana. Krov. Barkley. Pererira
Gallagher
Not too shabby is it ?
Not possible either ;)
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Not possible either ;)
Took me a minute!
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I’m not saying I have the answer to his current form but when we were playing our best football last year, he was far & away our most impressive player. It probably proves how influential he is to our side.
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People talk about us not having much money
But imagine if we had got Barkley on loan, sold Livermore/sawyers to finance it
Robinson/Deeney
Diangana. Krov. Barkley. Pererira
Gallagher
Not too shabby is it ?
Selling is not an issue - finding a buyer is. As we have found out with several of our players this summer.
Nor would the club commit to spending such vast sums on Barkley for a seasons loan.
In any event, it does not work as you have two Chelsea loanees in your team.
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Selling is not an issue - finding a buyer is. As we have found out with several of our players this summer.
Nor would the club commit to spending such vast sums on Barkley for a seasons loan.
In any event, it does not work as you have two Chelsea loanees in your team.
You and your facts 😂
I meant style and kudos of player ...rather than the exact player..
I think there is plenty out there we can and should get.
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People talk about us not having much money
But imagine if we had got Barkley on loan, sold Livermore/sawyers to finance it
Robinson/Deeney
Diangana. Krov. Barkley. Pererira
Gallagher
Not too shabby is it ?
Apparently the Barkley loan was rumoured to be 10 mill for 1 season. Don’t think we could sell Livermore and Sawyers to raise that kind of money 😂
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Apparently the Barkley loan was rumoured to be 10 mill for 1 season. Don’t think we could sell Livermore and Sawyers to raise that kind of money 😂
We could find the other 9😉
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You and your facts 😂
I meant style and kudos of player ...rather than the exact player..
I think there is plenty out there we can and should get.
The kudos of an England international who has been earmarked as one our best potential talents for a number of years and who may still play a prominent role in the England squad if his season at Villa Park is successful? A creative player and powerful runner from midfield in style with a decent goal scoring record in the PL? Yes please. That kind of style and kudos cost's as nearly as much in loan fee as we've got to spend! :)
That's why we are choosing from Sawyers, Livermore, Krov and Gallacher. I get what you are saying in regards to sytle of player but its the quality that is they key.
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Their first goal about summed him up for me. You catch sight of him nonchelently jogging back as Southampton break and does not reappear on screen for the whole duration of their attack. Our defensive midfielder apparently.
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Their first goal about summed him up for me. You catch sight of him nonchelently jogging back as Southampton break and does not reappear on screen for the whole duration of their attack. Our defensive midfielder apparently.
This. This infuriates me EVERY week. Even our "flair" players Diang and Matheus work their socks off and chase/press mostly.
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This. This infuriates me EVERY week. Even our "flair" players Diang and Matheus work their socks off and chase/press mostly.
Honestly, could not believe what I was watching. When our move breaks down and Southampton regain posession, Djenepo is positioned in between Livermore and Sawyers, he then bursts forward, Livermore also tears back, Sawyers just jogs his way on back and is nowhere to be seen as the ball hits the net.
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Good technical ability but beyond useless off the ball and no work rate. First one dropped out the midfield for me.
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Good technical ability but beyond useless off the ball and no work rate. First one dropped out the midfield for me.
After the international break I hope Gallagher and Krovinovic join Livermore in a 3 man midfield.
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After the international break I hope Gallagher and Krovinovic join Livermore in a 3 man midfield.
That or Field, Krov +CG but i cant see Bilic dropping the captain regardless so i think he will go for your trio.
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As soon as he came on he had a shooting chance in the D and with no conviction put a weak shot over the bar then he lost the ball and made no effort to regain possession,He is too laid back and offers us nothing.
Can't tackle,no pace,no goal threat what does he do to deserve a place in the team?
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Sawyers is a Championship player it's as simple as that and at his age he wont ever be any better than that.
He is another one like Phillips that needs bombing out of the squad completely emergencies excepted. No point either of these two being on the bench.
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Of all our players he is the one that I would love to make his mark. I genuinely think he has the talent.
However apart from 30 mins in the first half at Everton he’s been off the pace in my view and can’t be starting at the moment.
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As soon as he came on he had a shooting chance in the D and with no conviction put a weak shot over the bar then he lost the ball and made no effort to regain possession,He is too laid back and offers us nothing.
Can't tackle,no pace,no goal threat what does he do to deserve a place in the team?
Agreed, at this level laziness gets found out.
He can call it a laid back or languid style all he wants but he’s a fair weather footballer who isn’t prepared to do any of the hard stuff or difficult stuff that marks out top class players.
People talk about Xavi, Pirlo etc as examples of the style working- these guys were absolutely world class on the ball and surrounded by brilliant players. Romaine is and has neither. I don’t recall ever thinking “what a pass that is†from him. If he wants to play this way he probably needs to have a look at (dare I say it) Neves at the Wolves or someone like that, who contributes set pieces, long range strikes and a variety of accurate passing.
He was important to us at the start of Slavs reign to earmark that we were moving back towards possession football and he gave us a tempo for that. However he has been found out now and appears unwilling to adapt his game to become a better player.
We looked a fragile team when he came on last night IMHO. I just can’t justify his poor work rate and lack of conviction in almost everything he does.
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In the Premier League he's probably better suited to be a substitute number 10 role and we aren't currently playing that system so it's hard to see where he fits in. He's a good player, i really want him to succeed but as it currently stands there are better players than him for the system we're playing and it pains me to say it because I've back him and wanted us to sign him for years but he's been losing possession far too often.
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Poor work rate is mentioned above but I think a lot of what he does is under appreciated. His thing is constantly making himself available to receive the ball and keep us ticking over you need work rate to do that. I think we missed him in that respect last night.
He may well be the type who helps others play.....Pereira and Diangana were both under-par last night and I'm not sure if that's just a coincidence with Sawyers absence.
Sawyers does need to up his game a bit in certain areas for the prem but to write him off as an important member of our match-day squad at this stage is very premature.
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I agree that he should not be 'written off' however I also totally agree with the decision to leave him out last night. Has just not done enough in games played so far this season and gets caught on the ball too often by the quicker thinking players who perform in the premier league. Not sure how he can improve at his age as has been said elsewhere.
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Not even in the squad tonight. Maybe Slav has seen the light with him and knows he’s not good enough
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He is better than Harper and is an option from the bench in a more advanced position. You have to imagine he is injured or self isolating.
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Romaine Sawyers..... Day are numbered.
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Not even in the squad tonight. Maybe Slav has seen the light with him and knows he’s not good enough
Think and hope you're wrong. We've all seen how form dips with certain players and maybe Sawyers is going through one of those dips now. That can change. I'm sure everyone on this board can think of games when he's been top notch. At his best he links up effortlessly with the other creative players and helps play the kind of football that Billic is trying to play.
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Romaine Sawyers..... Day are numbered.
Not sure about this and agree with Baggies, perhaps he is injured and or isolating. If we do play in a similar fashion to the last 30 minutes of yesterday, ie higher up the pitch with a technical player (Krovinovic yesterday) as the deepest midfielder then Sawyers absolutely has a part to play, he is excellent at progressing the play when there are options available. He is also a viable option to be the central midfielder that drifts forward in between the lines like Krovinovic was to start yesterday and Periera was at the end.
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Thought he did ok last night. Possibly his most solid game of the season. He seemed to take less chances when in position than he has previously and he kept us moving along well. Hard to judge between him and Krov though at the moment.
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Sadly I don’t think he’s a premier league player. Too ponderous. He’s a footballer for sure but needs a little too long on the ball I think.
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He's championship level, no better.
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Sadly I don’t think he’s a premier league player. Too ponderous. He’s a footballer for sure but needs a little too long on the ball I think.
Have to agree, he is too slow of thought, too ponderous on the ball, just not good enough at this level, back up player only.
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Yep, decent on the ball but an absolute nightmare off it. The amount of times ive seen a ball go past his feet, not even at speed, in his immediate vicinity and not stop it or try too winds me up.
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I thought he put in a good performance today. He is very composed and has a good awareness around him, which is important in transforming defence into attack.
It looks like he is thinking what he does as opposed to those players who just blast the ball forwards. It looks like he helps Pereira alot.
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Good enough for the PL ON the ball just needs to get better off it. Improvement from previous though for sure.
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Much better today. I have faith that he will do well at this level and he was excellent tonight.
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Much better today. I have faith that he will do well at this level and he was excellent tonight.
No he wasnt, he was OK tonight nothing better than that l.
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His passing was excellent, numerous times he kept the ball and rotated into space intelligently with Pereira and Robinson. His positional play to close down the space in front of defence was also very good for an hour. In the last 20 minutes he fell apart. He was a defensive no show for the last ten minutes - not sure if that was down to fatigue or mentality. So a mixed bag from him overall. Fact is Sheff Utd had 22 goal attempts and an XG of over 3 which should never have been possible, that is Man City levels.
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Interesting that when we concede so many shots normally the blame is put on the midfield, but not today for some reason.
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His passing was excellent, numerous times he kept the ball and rotated into space intelligently with Pereira and Robinson. His positional play to close down the space in front of defence was also very good for an hour. In the last 20 minutes he fell apart. He was a defensive no show for the last ten minutes - not sure if that was down to fatigue or mentality. So a mixed bag from him overall. Fact is Sheff Utd had 22 goal attempts and an XG of over 3 which should never have been possible, that is Man City levels.
Agree he has been much better than earlier in the season and seems to be linking up well with some of our creative players. I do still feel that there are a number of times where a simple pass if often misplaced behind the player; maybe not leading to a turnover but often killing any possible forward momentum and needing us to reset.
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He was better, passed well and started a number of moves from deep. He's style of play takes alot of pressure of the defence and moves us effectively up the pitch.
I've always found him poor off the ball, unable to spot runs and follow his man. Watch the Baldock chance which he should of scored. Sawyers must see the run and does nothing, should have been 1-1 and Sawyers would have then had a bad game.
Unless he can improve on his defensive game I don't think he'll l cut it in the PL
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We know what Sawyers is, he is a deep lying playmaker who excels in ticking the ball over and progressing it up the field. He is also poor defensively in the tackle and tracking players.
It is no surprise that he looked much better tonight when he had options ahead of him to play the ball in to. He had two forwards, a number 10 and sometimes two wing backs as options to find tonight, in other games not so much and so the positive side of his game has been ineffective. It really is about systems and players.
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Watched him closely last night, he was fantastic IMO. Linked with Pereira, shielded the ball well, really smart passing and progressed defence into attack a lot! Next time the box to box hustling Gallagher he is better than when he's next to Livermore who doesn't have the engine.
We still struggle though with needing a "Yacob." I'd be sacrificing one of the three central defenders for a defensive midfielder and it has to be addressed in January.
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He had a great game last night. Well done Romaine, let's have lots more of that.
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The last two games Sawyer's has looked a lot better , and a tad quicker too.
Seems to be given the ball less away too.
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Watched him closely last night, he was fantastic IMO. Linked with Pereira, shielded the ball well, really smart passing and progressed defence into attack a lot! Next time the box to box hustling Gallagher he is better than when he's next to Livermore who doesn't have the engine.
We still struggle though with needing a "Yacob." I'd be sacrificing one of the three central defenders for a defensive midfielder and it has to be addressed in January.
I would maybe be tempted to restrict Gallagher's getting forward quite so much, that might result in a better balance - it was great what he did yesterday in a "must win", but we look so open at times it is painful, and Sawyers still stops tracking his man back too often, he let the full back go free for the one he blazed over the bar from about 10 yards.
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I would maybe be tempted to restrict Gallagher's getting forward quite so much, that might result in a better balance - it was great what he did yesterday in a "must win", but we look so open at times it is painful, and Sawyers still stops tracking his man back too often, he let the full back go free for the one he blazed over the bar from about 10 yards.
YESS! A confident and on form Sawyers with Gallagher as part of our midfield, could add a bit of real quality. Gallagher, good as he is, might be far more effective if he 'times' his forward forays a bit better. Sawyers would also benefit so much if Gallagher stays deep a bit more, to give a bit more defensive cover, instead of trying to be everywhere at once. Playing like he does is Gallagher's natural game though, and it would be a travesty to restrict him too much.
Same with Sawyers, work-rate and defensive cover are key parts, but Sawyers strengths are also different and he should be within reason allowed to play to them.
It is as you say Mulligan, about giving us a better balance, Gallagher would also last the full 90 better if he didn't try to cover quite so much ground and let the game come to him a bit more instead of chasing it. It's probably about experience and when he gets this to add to his skill and athleticism he really is going to be some talent. We must enjoy him whilst we can.
Sawyers and Gallagher together though could form the basis of a very workable midfield for this season.
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I thought he might have been okay at this level with his ability on the ball but I’ve seen enough. He is woeful in this division. Watching those Villa midfielders glide past him was excruciating.
He has no defensive awareness, he’s poor positionally, he can’t tackle, he looks lethargic, he doesn’t close space very well.
He’s getting a game due to the lack of other alternatives.
He’s a rolls Royce in the championship, but a broken down fiat punto in this division.
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Rubbish at this level.
We have many deficiencies but by far the worst are Livermore and Sawyers utterly abject.
The must be the 2.weakest in the division.
If SA can make only 1 signing it has to be a quality cental midfielder.
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I thought he might have been okay at this level with his ability on the ball but I’ve seen enough. He is woeful in this division. Watching those Villa midfielders glide past him was excruciating.
He has no defensive awareness, he’s poor positionally, he can’t tackle, he looks lethargic, he doesn’t close space very well.
He’s getting a game due to the lack of other alternatives.
He’s a rolls Royce in the championship, but a broken down fiat punto in this division.
I think we will slowly see him disappear from the matchday squad starting with Liverpool next
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If we can get 3m back for him i'd sell him. Him and Krov are the same player.
Also thought he would do better in the PL but he seems more languid than ever and it's not on. I dont think we will see much more of him playing here. Sam wont stand for it and thats a good thing.
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If we can get 3m back for him i'd sell him. Him and Krov are the same player.
Also thought he would do better in the PL but he seems more languid than ever and it's not on. I dont think we will see much more of him playing here. Sam wont stand for it and thats a good thing.
Agreed
Theres a reason Dean Smith never signed him for Villa despite being integral to his Walsall and Brentford side's
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Agreed
Theres a reason Dean Smith never signed him for Villa despite being integral to his Walsall and Brentford side's
Warning signs were sent off in my head when someone questioned him in an interview a while back about his laidback style and how he could improve and he basically said thats how i am and i wont change. I would have thought every player would take constructive criticism on board and TRY at least but he said no basically.
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Hopefully that was his last game for the Albion,You might as well start with ten men if you play him,
His sole tackles are cynical trips,he never wins the ball he just waits for it to arrive at his feet and on a good day he passes to the nearest teammate which is merely passing the responsibility to that person.
No pace no goal threat why is he in the team?
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Sawyers is genuinely trying to be more combative, but its just not in him! He's a good natural footballer but not strong enough or quick enough for the Prem League.
He's been our weakest link all season and somehow Bilic kept persisting. I think now teams target him, close him down and bingo we lose possession. My hope is that Allardyce has seen it already and will drop him from the squad. If Sam Field is fit (and no he's not brilliant either) he should take that place as he knows how to tackle.
In January (on day one of the transfer window) we need Connor Gallagher's twin brother. No messing about with negotiations, we can't afford to miss a game, Allardyce needs midfield enforcers.
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Hopefully that was his last game for the Albion,You might as well start with ten men if you play him,
His sole tackles are cynical trips,he never wins the ball he just waits for it to arrive at his feet and on a good day he passes to the nearest teammate which is merely passing the responsibility to that person.
No pace no goal threat why is he in the team?
Simply keeping the same eleven who had done so well at Man City but also with a lack of alternatives to improve. Krov doesn't offer much more but will surely get a chance wheras Harper and Field haven't even been close to the fist team.
Watching Sawyers for the first half of last season, in a team purring, was a real joy. His ability to take the ball in a tight situation and keep possession was quite wonderful - but that was in a form team in the Championship. In this division he doesn't have the power or speed of mind and body to compete. It's a pity as a part of me blindly hoped he could step up but that really was a flight of fantasy for anyone watching him through the later half of the season. The minimum expectation is to track runners and he even falls down at this on occasions as players can just run past him. Once Allardyce has got in alternatives he should be mothballed ready for next year back at his level.
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Really tough watching Sawyers struggle. He's one of us, but his performances for about a year now have been, on average, 5/10.
Doesn't protect the back four and the amount of passes he gave away last night was frightening.
Shows how poor our squad planning and transfer window was as we have such a sparse lack of alternatives.
Not sure where we go with our central midfield...
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Really tough watching Sawyers struggle. He's one of us, but his performances for about a year now have been, on average, 5/10.
Doesn't protect the back four and the amount of passes he gave away last night was frightening.
Shows how poor our squad planning and transfer window was as we have such a sparse lack of alternatives.
Not sure where we go with our central midfield...
Hit the nail on the head there. Our squad planning and building has been so poor.
We came down from the Premier League and had Livermore, Brunt, Barry, Harper, Field...I feel like I'm missing someone (other than Hoolahan).
Somehow we scraped through a year of that, but it wasn't pretty or really very functional. Harper seemed like a breath of fresh air because he could actually run with the ball, but ultimately he hasn't looked the like solution long term.
Last year we added Sawyers and Krovinovic, two ball players, but not players who will sit in front of the defence and break up play. It just about worked as we could dominate possession, but even then, I think many fans could see the dysfunctional nature of the midfield.
It just smacks of short term thinking and a lack of a clear identity within the club. We had a squad built on playing Pulisball, which we have tried to convert over two seasons to playing possession football (but without a proper press), and now we're going back to a more direct style of football.
I daresay Dowling's brief has been "get us up so we can sell", and now "keep us up so we can sell", rather than anything actually related to football identity or strategy.
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Hit the nail on the head there. Our squad planning and building has been so poor.
We came down from the Premier League and had Livermore, Brunt, Barry, Harper, Field...I feel like I'm missing someone (other than Hoolahan).
Somehow we scraped through a year of that, but it wasn't pretty or really very functional. Harper seemed like a breath of fresh air because he could actually run with the ball, but ultimately he hasn't looked the like solution long term.
Last year we added Sawyers and Krovinovic, two ball players, but not players who will sit in front of the defence and break up play. It just about worked as we could dominate possession, but even then, I think many fans could see the dysfunctional nature of the midfield.
It just smacks of short term thinking and a lack of a clear identity within the club. We had a squad built on playing Pulisball, which we have tried to convert over two seasons to playing possession football (but without a proper press), and now we're going back to a more direct style of football.
I daresay Dowling's brief has been "get us up so we can sell", and now "keep us up so we can sell", rather than anything actually related to football identity or strategy.
Morrison !
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Morrison !
Ah yes, and Stefan Johansen came in in January.
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Not good enough. He's a mid table Championship player. Should not be anywhere near the starting line up. Field should take his place when (if ever) fit.
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Not good enough. He's a mid table Championship player. Should not be anywhere near the starting line up. Field should take his place when (if ever) fit.
Field has done nothing to suggest he can have an impact at this level and i have seen the game pass him by on a number of the occasions he has been given an opportunity BUT once he is fit he has to be given a chance in place of Sawyers.
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Not sure where we go with our central midfield...
The Championship.
I know what you mean though. When the opposition comes at us we part like the Red Sea before Moses.
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One thing is how can a professional footballer play whilst chewing gum. If he was tackled and went down, he could choke on the gum
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Not good enough. He's a mid table Championship player. Should not be anywhere near the starting line up. Field should take his place when (if ever) fit.
Thats the issue for me with Field hes been so unlucky with injuries but he does seems to pick up them quite reguarly.
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One thing is how can a professional footballer play whilst chewing gum. If he was tackled and went down, he could choke on the gum
the gum is the giveaway, as you say, he can't possibly "give it rice", or he will be in serious danger
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Not good enough. He's a mid table Championship player. Should not be anywhere near the starting line up. Field should take his place when (if ever) fit.
Agree re Swayers but Field not good enough either.
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Not good enough. He's a mid table Championship player. Should not be anywhere near the starting line up. Field should take his place when (if ever) fit.
Sawyers is champ at best.
Field league 1.
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One of two things will happen in my view - either Allardyce will coach the defensive side of the game into Sawyers and it will be up to Sawyers to take it on and become a really good player, or Allardyce will have already seen that Sawyers just isn’t defensively minded or physical and drop him entirely.
The only position I ever see Sawyers playing is an attacking midfielder now but I doubt he will make the starting eleven from now on. I could see Harper getting a start ahead of him to be honest.
It’s a shame though - I’m a big fan of Sawyers when he’s on the ball.
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One of two things will happen in my view - either Allardyce will coach the defensive side of the game into Sawyers and it will be up to Sawyers to take it on and become a really good player, or Allardyce will have already seen that Sawyers just isn’t defensively minded or physical and drop him entirely.
The only position I ever see Sawyers playing is an attacking midfielder now but I doubt he will make the starting eleven from now on. I could see Harper getting a start ahead of him to be honest.
It’s a shame though - I’m a big fan of Sawyers when he’s on the ball.
Sorry, Harper not nearly good enough. All of which are indicators as to how weak the squad is!
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Sorry, Harper not nearly good enough. All of which are indicators as to how weak the squad is!
Totally agree. If Allardyce wants a strong and physical midfield then he doesn’t have it in the squad let alone today.
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Let's face it Romaine was good for the first 3 months or so after joining and has been poor ever since. He isn't good enough for the premier league as he Is just to laid back, lazy and isn't combative enough. Dean Smith knew he was available and didn't go after a deal. There's a reason for that.
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Best game of the season for us so far, fantastic defensive work and some great passes too. Excellent.
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Easily his best game in 2020
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His pass to play Grant in was excellent.
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Best game of the season for us so far, fantastic defensive work and some great passes too. Excellent.
Agreed - a much better showing tonight.
He will be lucky going forwards that Sam will assign the team clear roles which may benefit him in an organised outfit.
He’s still at risk of being the first to be dropped should we sign a new central midfielder.
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Best performance for months. He actually won a tackle and tracked back. Much better.
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People getting over excited by the result - 1st half Sawyers was anonymous.
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Thought he was poor first half but much better the 2nd
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People getting over excited by the result - 1st half Sawyers was anonymous.
Everyone was tbh.
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People getting over excited by the result - 1st half Sawyers was anonymous.
This is a HUGE result...
Last time they dropped points at home when title was on the line... I'll wait.
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If Sawyers can play the rest of the season as he did second half he could really control the midfield against teams of similar stature, he really needs to learn to win his personal battles and that football is more than the technical side, once he wins those battles though he does have a bit of quality on the ball. I think like Phillips it’s a confidence thing
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People getting over excited by the result - 1st half Sawyers was anonymous.
I can't see anyone getting over excited, i can just see people giving praise where praise is due. If you don't feel that way fine but why try putting a damper on it for those thst do? Oh is it because you want Sam to fail?
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I can't see anyone getting over excited, i can just see people giving praise where praise is due. If you don't feel that way fine but why try putting a damper on it for those thst do? Oh is it because you want Sam to fail?
No need to get personal about it - I'm offering my opinion on his performance today. It's ok to have different opinions.
Anyway, it's not because I Sam to fail (I want West Brom to succeed, don't care about Sam), it's just people saying that's the best he's played all season, like he somehow ran the game. We packed everyone inside 30 yards of our goal first half and the game passed him by. He had a better second half but it wasn't like we were suddenly all over Liverpool. I like him as a player, but for the position he plays, he needs to offer a lot more defensively, even more than today.
If it was comments like "poor first half but looked a lot better second half" I'd agree.
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No need to get personal about it - I'm offering my opinion on his performance today. It's ok to have different opinions.
Anyway, it's not because I Sam to fail (I want West Brom to succeed, don't care about Sam), it's just people saying that's the best he's played all season, like he somehow ran the game. We packed everyone inside 30 yards of our goal first half and the game passed him by. He had a better second half but it wasn't like we were suddenly all over Liverpool. I like him as a player, but for the position he plays, he needs to offer a lot more defensively, even more than today.
If it was comments like "poor first half but looked a lot better second half" I'd agree.
Not getting personnel i just dont agree with you.
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If Sawyers can play the rest of the season as he did second half he could really control the midfield against teams of similar stature, he really needs to learn to win his personal battles and that football is more than the technical side, once he wins those battles though he does have a bit of quality on the ball. I think like Phillips it’s a confidence thing
Leeds will have a field day against Sawyers with their high pressing game.
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Leeds will have a field day against Sawyers with their high pressing game.
Or he'll beat your boys ;) press and release our players...
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Leeds will have a field day against Sawyers with their high pressing game.
Would that be the same high pressing game the mighty Liverpool use? Enjoy the moment.
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Would that be the same high pressing game the mighty Liverpool use? Enjoy the moment.
I am enjoying the moment but it will be pointless unless we beat Leeds in my opinion just like Man City was when we caved in against the vile these points against the big clubs are worthless unless you can back them up.
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I am enjoying the moment but it will be pointless unless we beat Leeds in my opinion just like Man City was when we caved in against the vile these points against the big clubs are worthless unless you can back them up.
Think we might have struggled against Liverpool with 10 men.
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My personal view, probably at odds with many of you :D, is that Sawyers is probably the best player we have at picking the ball up from deep, under pressure, and having the calmness to pick out a forward pass. Thats always his first intent and he only goes square or back when theres no other options.
I thought he did that well in the second half of last night in addition to an improved defensive performance where I agree he has been shown to be very poor at this level. He also got up the field when we were attacking and it looked to me like that was a change from Allardyce.
But if Alllardyce can add some defensive awareness to his game then on the ball I think he can compete at this level.
I am definitely biased because I have always the loved the kind of player who can stroke the ball around and play quick incisive passes, which he can.
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Much better performance
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One thing is how can a professional footballer play whilst chewing gum. If he was tackled and went down, he could choke on the gum
Tyrone MIngs seems to manage okay
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Tyrone MIngs seems to manage okay
Tyrone's the one leaving others in a heap and at risk of choking though. Kevin Keegan was a gum chewer back in the seventies. There seemed to be quite a few back then. Never really thought of Romaine Sawyers as a 70s throwback. Renaissance Man.
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Tyrone's the one leaving others in a heap and at risk of choking though. Kevin Keegan was a gum chewer back in the seventies. There seemed to be quite a few back then. Never really thought of Romaine Sawyers as a 70s throwback. Renaissance Man.
Cooler than Shaft, John Shaft !!
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My personal view, probably at odds with many of you :D, is that Sawyers is probably the best player we have at picking the ball up from deep, under pressure, and having the calmness to pick out a forward pass. Thats always his first intent and he only goes square or back when theres no other options.
I thought he did that well in the second half of last night in addition to an improved defensive performance where I agree he has been shown to be very poor at this level. He also got up the field when we were attacking and it looked to me like that was a change from Allardyce.
But if Alllardyce can add some defensive awareness to his game then on the ball I think he can compete at this level.
I am definitely biased because I have always the loved the kind of player who can stroke the ball around and play quick incisive passes, which he can.
Frazzle, I agree with this.
We have to think back to the season before Sawyers arrived and look at how bad we were at rotating the ball from defence through midfield to attack.
You could argue that was down to coaching as well but there were countless games where the three players with the fewest touches on the pitch were our front three - in the championship...
I think we need him, or a player like him, at all times - for now he's the best that we have at rotating the ball.
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Tyrone's the one leaving others in a heap and at risk of choking though. Kevin Keegan was a gum chewer back in the seventies. There seemed to be quite a few back then. Never really thought of Romaine Sawyers as a 70s throwback. Renaissance Man.
The comment was "One thing is how can a professional footballer play whilst chewing gum. If he was tackled and went down, he could choke on the gum".
Regardless of whether Mings is the one leaving others in a heap he also goes down at times and gets stuck in so runs the gum risk as well. Seems any stick to beat Sawyers with at times is used.
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The comment was "One thing is how can a professional footballer play whilst chewing gum. If he was tackled and went down, he could choke on the gum".
Regardless of whether Mings is the one leaving others in a heap he also goes down at times and gets stuck in so runs the gum risk as well. Seems any stick to beat Sawyers with at times is used.
It was a tongue in cheek comment re Mings but Romaine certainly seems to be up a gum tree with some on here.
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It was a tongue in cheek comment re Mings but Romaine certainly seems to be up a gum tree with some on here.
Should have known, its been a long week so far :D
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Cooler than Shaft, John Shaft !!
He is the man
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Having watched the second half v Liverpool this morning, I thought it was Sawyer's best Premier League game, but he needs to do that consistently, because he has been very poor in some games, the changed shape may be helping him.
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I can imagine this thread may be a little busy later.
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Fine work there from Sawyers. 'Recycled it' straight into his own net. Not good enough for this level.
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Livermore is poor, however he is more useful than Sawyers
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What a clown!🤡
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That was an error that wouldn’t be made in school football. Anyone who has ever played football knows you never boot the ball into the middle of your own goal. If in doubt kick it out. We can’t carry players like Sawyers.
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Livermore is poor, however he is more useful than Sawyers
Both utterly awful
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He is useless thinks he’s mr cool more like mr fool
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This the problem with our players they think they are better than they actually are. so there is no one touch football every player has to have extra touch and when they look up no movement.
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This the problem with our players they think they are better than they actually are. so there is no one touch football every player has to have extra touch and when they look up no movement.
Bang on the ego Sawyers carries is laughable. Genuinely don’t think I’ve ever seen him sprint thinks he’s Pirlo :o
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This the problem with our players they think they are better than they actually are. so there is no one touch football every player has to have extra touch and when they look up no movement.
Very true. Arrogant beyond belief
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Sawyers has to be one of the worst players to ever perform in the premier league.
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He wasn't any better in the championship.
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Albion fans love sentimental rubbish.
For 3m or whatever he was a fair buy in terms of value but not good enough for the PL
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He isnt good enough for this level but will be useful to us next season as we try to firstly not drop to the third tier and secondly attempt the bounce back
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That probably the best/worst own goal I've ever seen us score ;D
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That probably the best/worst own goal I've ever seen us score ;D
Albion should get rights for that goal as it will be played over and over again Romaine this is what you will be remembered for when you hang up your boots.
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Looked absolutely knackered tonight.
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But whose fault was the own goal? Sawyers or Johnstone? Maybe a case of poor communication from both.
.
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Albion should get rights for that goal as it will be played over and over again Romaine this is what you will be remembered for when you hang up your boots.
Hang them up now please, you're rubbish.
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But whose fault was the own goal? Sawyers or Johnstone? Maybe a case of poor communication from both.
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I see your point but looking in the roughly general direction of where you are kicking is a bare minimum.
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Sawyers must have been watching those 'no look passes' by football freestylers on youtube and thought he had in him too.
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But whose fault was the own goal? Sawyers or Johnstone? Maybe a case of poor communication from both.
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It's clearly Sawyers who should take the majority of the blame but Johnstone was VERY wide of even the 6 yard line with the ball only 25 yards from goal.
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I'm also surprised Johnston wasn't expecting it , the guy only passes backwards.
I will be even more surprised if he plays again.
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It's clearly Sawyers who should take the majority of the blame but Johnstone was VERY wide of even the 6 yard line with the ball only 25 yards from goal.
I have no idea why Johnstone was so far away from the goal. He takes some of the blame for me.
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Jason Lee will always be remembered for his pineapple haircut. At least Sawyers will be remembered for that own goal. I’m struggling to remember anything that he’s ever done for us in a positive manner. Tonight will haunt him for a long time - a career defining moment. Probably the only Premier league goal he’ll ever score and for a team he’ll never play for!
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It's clearly Sawyers who should take the majority of the blame but Johnstone was VERY wide of even the 6 yard line with the ball only 25 yards from goal.
SJ took the same position up several times in the game - it's how they play. It's a shorter pass back so much safer, everything can be seen more easily for both players, if there's a problem it means the ball goes for a corner rather than a goal, absolutely nothing wrong with where Sam is EVERYTHING wrong with what Sawyers did.
100% Sawyer's fault - the keeper was where he was meant to be. Sawyers hit the pass blind and with too much on it anyway. Like I said in the match thread - it was a crazy pass to play even if SJ was in the nets as it would be asking for an interception.
What stood out for me is that none of the players reacted afterwards, it was just shoulders down and "whatever" attitude. If I did that in Sunday League I'd expect to get balled out by my team mates.
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Jason Lee will always be remembered for his pineapple haircut. At least Sawyers will be remembered for that own goal. I’m struggling to remember anything that he’s ever done for us in a positive manner. Tonight will haunt him for a long time - a career defining moment. Probably the only Premier league goal he’ll ever score and for a team he’ll never play for!
He was excellent from August to December 2019. Like all of them and the previous manager.
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SJ took the same position up several times in the game - it's how they play. It's a shorter pass back so much safer, everything can be seen more easily for both players, if there's a problem it means the ball goes for a corner rather than a goal, absolutely nothing wrong with where Sam is EVERYTHING wrong with what Sawyers did.
100% Sawyer's fault - the keeper was where he was meant to be. Sawyers hit the pass blind and with too much on it anyway. Like I said in the match thread - it was a crazy pass to play even if SJ was in the nets as it would be asking for an interception.
What stood out for me is that none of the players reacted afterwards, it was just shoulders down and "whatever" attitude. If I did that in Sunday League I'd expect to get balled out by my team mates.
you are 100% right not a word from anyone, m sure Roy Keane may have said a few words
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He was excellent from August to December 2019. Like all of them and the previous manager.
But unfortunately that will be forgotten. Kanu played some excellent matches for us but my overriding memory of him will be blazing the ball over the bar from 5 inches off the goal line against Middlesbrough. I will have the memory of tonight’s own goal forever and I’m guessing so will Romaine Sawyers.
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He was excellent from August to December 2019. Like all of them and the previous manager.
I think when we're on the front foot and we're pushing the other team back he's excellent at recycling possession and keeping us ticking over. Trouble is, he's a luxury player when we haven't got the ball.
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Mysterious how it all fell apart at Xmas 2019 and never got anywhere near that again even in the EFL.
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The presenter at half time asked JFH whose fault it was and JFH looked at him like it was the most stupid question he'd ever been asked. JFH said it was Sawyers, keeper was out for the easy ball.
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I don’t even think there’s any debate at all. I’m no footballer but even I know you don’t pass the ball into the middle of your own net! You always play wide of the goal. Surely Sawyers knows that?
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I was ALWAYS trained to pass back towards the edge of the 18 yard box from the age of 5. NEVER pass back into the goalmouth.
Thing is he did not look. Thats the issue, if he looked he wouldn't have passed into the goalmouth because he would have seen SJ wasnt there. He simply switched off, chewed his gum and scored a cracking own goal.
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Sawyers thinks he's Maradona when actually he's more like Madonna
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One word...
GO
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I was ALWAYS trained to pass back towards the edge of the 18 yard box from the age of 5. NEVER pass back into the goalmouth.
Thing is he did not look. Thats the issue, if he looked he wouldn't have passed into the goalmouth because he would have seen SJ wasnt there. He simply switched off, chewed his gum and scored a cracking own goal.
This. I was a keeper, the ball when played back was always wide of the goal in case I cocked it up so wouldn’t result in a goal and at worst a corner
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I saw this game on a dodgy feed and didn’t see this live
JUST ASKING. - did he have another pass?
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I saw this game on a dodgy feed and didn’t see this live
JUST ASKING. - did he have another pass?
Well yes... in fact the same pass but 5 yards to the right 😂
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Romaine clearly has a genuine love for the club having been with us from an early age hes just not a premier league player sadly I do however think he will shine again next season in the championship
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Well yes... in fact the same pass but 5 yards to the right 😂
But did he have a pass to anyone but the goalkeeper?
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It's not just the fact he's rubbish, but his demeanour on the pitch really grates. Looks like he can't be arsed, the chewing gum doesn't help.
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It's not just the fact he's rubbish, but his demeanour on the pitch really grates. Looks like he can't be arsed, the chewing gum doesn't help.
I would not be able to play alongside someone like Sawyers (not that im good enough too ;D ) imagine running your heart out for 90 mins, sliding tackles all over the place in CM, sweating buckets and then you look over at your mate and hes chewing gum, jogging about in 3rd gear and tackling like hes testing the bath water temperature with his big toe. I'd be thinking whats the point.
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It's not just the fact he's rubbish, but his demeanour on the pitch really grates. Looks like he can't be arsed, the chewing gum doesn't help.
I agree hes far too laid back but loads of players chew gum not that I agree with it
Even though hes clearly not up to it at this level I do think had he not left and come back and come straight through our ranks we would cut him more slack
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Well yes... in fact the same pass but 5 yards to the right 😂 But did he have a pass to anyone but the goalkeeper?
The comedy own goal was symbolic of everything that was wrong with our approach to the game. 10 minutes in and our defence, midfield and attack are huddled in and around their own box and when in possession the only option is a backwards one, in the wrong direction. Leeds as they always do had a high press on. We should have been looking to get in behind them and pushing up the pitch ourselves.
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The keeper is not to blame - he makes the appropriate angle for two passes. One from sawyers or one from a centre half via Sawyers. You never make an angle for a pass between your own sticks.
What we saw from sawyers was a chap ignoring a simple forward pass in favour of an option to boost his passing stats. There was no need to pass it to the keeper which was by far the worst option.
Surely he also understands the opponent and their pressing like packs?
His mistakes alone drew any belief from not only the players but the fan base too. He has to be replaced in January.
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I’d go as far to argue that the own goal wasn’t even the worst mistake he made in the game. For Rodrigo’s goal he’s about 40 yards out of position, just sauntering back. Playing at the back in this team is a thankless task with Sawyers just letting the opposition come through at will.
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Sawyers made a shocking mistake. No doubt about it. There may have been a communication problem that contributed to it but it was mainly his fault.
But he doesn’t deserve the abuse he’s receiving in this thread. He may not be everyone’s cup of tea, I get that, but he has made a valuable contribution since he rejoined. Those who say he never makes a forward pass need to watch him morse closely and also look at the movement around him. My view is that he always looks for a forward pass first.
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Sawyers made a shocking mistake. No doubt about it. There may have been a communication problem that contributed to it but it was mainly his fault.
But he doesn’t deserve the abuse he’s receiving in this thread. He may not be everyone’s cup of tea, I get that, but he has made a valuable contribution since he rejoined. Those who say he never makes a forward pass need to watch him morse closely and also look at the movement around him. My view is that he always looks for a forward pass first.
got alot of plaudits for his performance at Anfield with one lovely ball to get Grant away but last night reverted back to type. Comical own goal aside his performance in midfield was awful letting Leeds run through us like butter. Can not recall a tackle he made or even tracking back a Leeds player
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Harper of Field would both be just as effective as Sawyers who is not the player we need with the tactics Allardyce is implementing.
He's fine in a team that has high possession but we average 25%. You could even try Kipre in that role.
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Harper of Field would both be just as effective as Sawyers who is not the player we need with the tactics Allardyce is implementing.
He's fine in a team that has high possession but we average 25%. You could even try Kipre in that role.
Harper is an attacking midfielder who started out as a forward. He's currently no more of a CDM than Sawyers. Field, yes. Harper, no.
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Like most of us i was pleased when we signed him and went a long with the flow as we played so well but about this time last year i started to question what he was actually adding to the side.
Early this year i started to criticise him and a lot of our readers disagreed with me.
O ver the subsequent months more and more have come to my opinion and i would like to see if anyone disagrees with me now.Frankly the occasional superb pass and one goal are not good enough.
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I feel for Sawyers, last night was mistake that he will make once in his career, sadly for him (and us) it came at a time when we really need points, not when we are 3-0 up or 3-0 down in a game.
Also, I never realised but read an interview somewhere when he said that when he signed Bilic said he was going to convert him into a defensive midfielder / playmaker despite the fact Sawyers best performances for Brentford were further forward.
I liked Bilic but i would question why not just sign a player who played in that role rather than paying money to convert someone. Sawyers is decent on the ball but to be that playmaker, you need to be outstanding, Pirlo was great at it, Scholes reinvented himself, but they were top top players, Sawyers never was and never will be, by trying to make him something he isnt he has been hung out to dry.
You either need to be a great playmaker to cover the fact you cant defend, or you need to be have a defensive minset, Sawyers isnt any of those things, you would get the same result if you played Pereira, Koumas, Harvey Barnes, etc in that role.
I know he looks laid back and as though he doesnt care, i dont believe that is the case, but when your struggling it can be an easy stick to beat with, other players show there passion by beating their chest, screaming out loud but leave the first chance they get.
Like a number of our squad, Sawyers is a good championship and at the moment looking out his depth in this league but i also think he has been done no favours by being signed to play a different role than the one we based the signing on.
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I feel for Sawyers, last night was mistake that he will make once in his career, sadly for him (and us) it came at a time when we really need points, not when we are 3-0 up or 3-0 down in a game.
Also, I never realised but read an interview somewhere when he said that when he signed Bilic said he was going to convert him into a defensive midfielder / playmaker despite the fact Sawyers best performances for Brentford were further forward.
I liked Bilic but i would question why not just sign a player who played in that role rather than paying money to convert someone. Sawyers is decent on the ball but to be that playmaker, you need to be outstanding, Pirlo was great at it, Scholes reinvented himself, but they were top top players, Sawyers never was and never will be, by trying to make him something he isnt he has been hung out to dry.
You either need to be a great playmaker to cover the fact you cant defend, or you need to be have a defensive minset, Sawyers isnt any of those things, you would get the same result if you played Pereira, Koumas, Harvey Barnes, etc in that role.
I know he looks laid back and as though he doesnt care, i dont believe that is the case, but when your struggling it can be an easy stick to beat with, other players show there passion by beating their chest, screaming out loud but leave the first chance they get.
Like a number of our squad, Sawyers is a good championship and at the moment looking out his depth in this league but i also think he has been done no favours by being signed to play a different role than the one we based the signing on.
That was such a good goal he scored last night , perhaps he should be tried as a forward .
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You either need to be a great playmaker to cover the fact you cant defend, or you need to be have a defensive minset, Sawyers isnt any of those things, you would get the same result if you played Pereira, Koumas, Harvey Barnes, etc in that role.
Nail. Head. Resoundingly hit.
He's good at what he does, but what he does isn't chasing down the opposition and getting nasty. (I could perhaps have put that better!)
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He has apologised on Twitter so i will give him credit for that but wtf was he thinking.
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He has apologised on Twitter so i will give him credit for that but wtf was he thinking.
I won't. Words mean xxxx all and they dont get you points.
Not interested what he says.
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I won't. Words mean xxxx all and they dont get you points.
Not interested what he says.
It doesnt excuse what he did but at least hes said sorry. Most footballers will just hide behind their mansion walls.
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Living in Leeds I have had to watch replay after replay all morning of the own goal on the local news.
The more you watch it the worse it gets he was being closed down by two players the one closest to him was goal side he had plenty of time to play a forward pass instead of a blind one unbelievable mistake when you look at it.
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It doesnt excuse what he did but at least hes said sorry. Most footballers will just hide behind their mansion walls.
Makes no odds to me. His job isnt to apologise or appease the fans his job is to work his backside off on the pitch. I see no evidence of that.
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Makes no odds to me. His job isnt to apologise or appease the fans his job is to work his backside off on the pitch. I see no evidence of that.
In agreement
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Can anybody tell me Sawyers actual position at Walsall and Brentford ? , I'm convinced he was further forward.
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Can anybody tell me Sawyers actual position at Walsall and Brentford ? , I'm convinced he was further forward.
Attacking CM i believe.
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The somewhat reliable Transfermarkt has:
Walsall - 78 apps at Attacking Mid, 31 as a second striker
Brentford - 63 at AM, 34 at CM, 28 at SS
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As I thought then , not doing my blood pressure much good reading that .
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The somewhat reliable Transfermarkt has:
Walsall - 78 apps at Attacking Mid, 31 as a second striker
Brentford - 63 at AM, 34 at CM, 28 at SS
Which leaves him well down the pecking order in this squad in any position.
As mentioned he played a key role in one of our best ever purple patches. We were running along at over 2 points a game. At one stage in early December we were on course to comfortably break 100 points. Everything fell into place for 3 wonderful months.
Due to this you can see why Bilić persevered with him and others, but in the end you have to put the team before your relationship with the players. Something Bilić has never managed to do in his career.
Yesterday evening should be the last we see of Romaine in the Premier League, although may be worth playing him off the striker at Bloomfield Road.
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I've said it before, i'll say it again...he should be second fiddle to Pereira in an attacking central midfield role (if that position exists under Allardyce).
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How can you play someone who cannot tackle and is not quick enough when sides are pressing, which most premium sides do now, to play the ball forward.
I totally agree, he should be further up the field but there are a few in front of him in the pecking order.
Be surprised if he gets another game, perhaps Blackpool.
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None of them want to tackle
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Harper of Field would both be just as effective as Sawyers who is not the player we need with the tactics Allardyce is implementing.
He's fine in a team that has high possession but we average 25%. You could even try Kipre in that role.
As poor as Sawyers is I do not believe that either Harper or Field are remotely good enough either. Sad to have to say so.
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After a very decent second half against Liverpool, that performance against Leeds was so utterly abject that he shouldn't be anywhere near the first eleven for a while.
So disappointed in him as I thought he might be one of those who looked better in the higher division.
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Watching him get spun by Smith-Rowe and then joh back whilst Smith-Rowe continues the move and ends up squaring for the goal was just typical Sawyers banter.
A child in an adults league.
Has. Not. Learned. A. Single. Thing
WOEFUL.
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Watching him get spun by Smith-Rowe and then joh back whilst Smith-Rowe continues the move and ends up squaring for the goal was just typical Sawyers banter.
A child in an adults league.
Has. Not. Learned. A. Single. Thing
WOEFUL.
Completely agree, never learns anything. I’m starting to actually feel quite embarrassed for him chasing the shadows of much better players all game. Not his fault, who’d say “I’m not playing today gaffer�!!
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Pointless player in this setup. Get a scrapper in.
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Pointless player in this setup. Get a scrapper in.
Pointless player in this league, regardless of any set up or playing style.
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Would like to see him once in his role once.
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The second goal has drawn a line under Sawyers for me. I've defended him, I've seen the best in him but I don't see anything positive of late. Needs to be a second choice number 10, nothing more.
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My problem with Swayers is that he always goes for the risk-free pass. Little 2 yard passes sideways and backwards. In his position we must have a player who can deliver a 25 yard through pass. Not blasting it, but picking out runners and timing his pass. (mind, if we have nobody making forward runs)
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My problem with Swayers is that he always goes for the risk-free pass. Little 2 yard passes sideways and backwards. In his position we must have a player who can deliver a 25 yard through pass. Not blasting it, but picking out runners and timing his pass. (mind, if we have nobody making forward runs)
In his position we need someone who can run and tackle for starters.
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I’m really sorry but he needs to be dropped and it’s actually a poor show on Allardyce for not having done it for this game.
Sawyers is outstanding in possession in my view but in this league and in this team he can’t play the position he’s asked to play. He doesn’t track any runners. He needs to be dropped I’m afraid.
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Been played out of position in a league that’s too much of a step up for him and boy is it showing. To not have invested in a defensive midfielder the past 2 - 3 years is a joke and the blame lies completely at Dowling’s door he’s had more than enough time to get one through the door. Sawyer’s is never a defensive mid, never has been & never will be.
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Been played out of position in a league that’s too much of a step up for him and boy is it showing. To not have invested in a defensive midfielder the past 2 - 3 years is a joke and the blame lies completely at Dowling’s door he’s had more than enough time to get one through the door. Sawyer’s is never a defensive mid, never has been & never will be.
I do wonder if we will ever have a balanced squad. Do you remember when we were in the PL for 8 years strasight but for about 3 seasons we didnt have a proper left back just players who COULD fill in.
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Only watched the first half tonight and all he did was foul , and give the ball away. Doubt he will be tweeting tonight about bouncing back and showing fight .
I still can't decide who is worse him or Livermore.
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Only watched the first half tonight and all he did was foul , and give the ball away. Doubt he will be tweeting tonight about bouncing back and showing fight .
I still can't decide who is worse him or Livermore.
Livermore is no worldie but he's better than Sawyers. He is absolutely abject at PL level.
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I'm staggered we have gone this long playing Sawyers at DM when clearly he's anything but .
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I'm staggered we have gone this long playing Sawyers at DM when clearly he's anything but .
I'm staggered that supposed top coaches have even tried it when he's never had a tackle in him in his career. He done brilliantly at Brentford playing a totally different role to the one he does here and people wonder why he's struggling.
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I'm staggered that supposed top coaches have even tried it when he's never had a tackle in him in his career. He done brilliantly at Brentford playing a totally different role to the one he does here and people wonder why he's struggling.
No arguement from me on that , I suspect he'll be removed asap
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Watched him closely when possible during MOTD highlights this morning and all I saw was someone lumbering around. What is the point having him in the team?
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Words fail me. Nice guy but needs to be moved on if he's not going to play ACM
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Refuse to believe he’s a WBA fan. Literally shows zero effort or energy.
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More effort made chewing gum than closing down opposition, enough said.
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He is one of the most laziest players I have ever seen play for us. At least Koumas come do something class.
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Didn’t even look on the same level as Blackpool.
The ease in which players can go past him is horrifying.
Allardyce really needs to get some one in who can play central midfield so we don’t have to use Sawyers.
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He has got to go he's truly awful. He cannot be picked in the PL. Hopefully today is the last we see of him.
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Words fail me. Nice guy but needs to be moved on if he's not going to play ACM
Sadly I’m coming to that view too. Good player but wrong position and wrong manager. Lost confidence as well I think.
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He needs to be second fiddle to Pereira, he can't be playing in a defensive midfield.
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Sadly I’m coming to that view too. Good player but wrong position and wrong manager. Lost confidence as well I think.
Disagree that he’s good to be honest. Has flattered to deceive.
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He needs to be second fiddle to Pereira,
No he doesn't. He cant shoot, he cant create, he cant go past anyone. He isnt good enough.
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I dont want to single players out today, but he is abject at best. The guy nevers sprints, tackles, runs with the ball, pass foward, shoot, gets stuck in. Lqazy and just looks far too relaxed.
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He was really poor today in a level he should be extremely capable in. His tackling is the worst I've seen in a Pro footballer.
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He was really poor today in a level he should be extremely capable in. His tackling is the worst I've seen in a Pro footballer.
Not only his tackling but also his tracking a man.
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Doubt we'd even get our 3m quid back. That's really bad.
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Doubt we'd even get our 3m quid back. That's really bad.
He could be an asset next season if we use him wisely.
He should not be protecting our back line though at any costs - in either division.
If we stay up in this division then he does start to become surplus to requirements.
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Not only his tackling but also his tracking a man.
Field is the only midfielder we have that does that. Watch Ajayi for their first goal, just ambled back. Not good enough by a million miles. When he's fit Field has to play in that DM role unless we bring someone in.
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He could be an asset next season if we use him wisely.
He should not be protecting our back line though at any costs - in either division.
If we stay up in this division then he does start to become surplus to requirements.
I've said it about him before, he's a luxury player. Normally your luxury player is someone attacking like Pierera who gets to roam and you don't expect much from him when your team hasn't got the ball. Sawyers offers so little defensively but when we have the ball he can move it around nicely and keep us ticking over. Great when we're on top of games and the opposition is pegged back - terrible when we don't have much of the ball.
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He was really poor today in a level he should be extremely capable in. His tackling is the worst I've seen in a Pro footballer.
Tackling on a par with Brunt.
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Tackling on a par with Brunt.
Brunt was superior to Sawyers in everything.
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Even Brunt in decline tried his damnest.
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Brunt was too slow and was kept 3 years too long out of loyalty, a decent player early on.
Sawyers a better athlete.
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Brunt was too slow and was kept 3 years too long out of loyalty, a decent player early on.
Sawyers a better athlete.
Sawyers is not better than Brunt in any aspect of the game. He's just younger that is all.
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I've said it about him before, he's a luxury player. Normally your luxury player is someone attacking like Pierera who gets to roam and you don't expect much from him when your team hasn't got the ball. Sawyers offers so little defensively but when we have the ball he can move it around nicely and keep us ticking over. Great when we're on top of games and the opposition is pegged back - terrible when we don't have much of the ball.
I said the same when we signed him, either play him in front of a holding two in a ‘free’ role or don’t play him at all. Too much of a liability in DM, can’t tackle and can’t run.
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Brunt was too slow and was kept 3 years too long out of loyalty, a decent player early on.
Sawyers a better athlete.
Sawyers has the turning of a JCB , Brunt a million miles better at everything until his last 18 months.
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I said the same when we signed him, either play him in front of a holding two in a ‘free’ role or don’t play him at all. Too much of a liability in DM, can’t tackle and can’t run.
and has never played defensive midfield in his career so master stroke putting a player who can't tackle in that role in a premier league team.
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Brunt was too slow and was kept 3 years too long out of loyalty, a decent player early on.
Sawyers a better athlete.
Athletism is important in football. Ability, and positioning in the team is more important though.
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Athletism is important in football. Ability, and positioning in the team is more important though.
Positioning - exactly our dumb ass managers played Brunt at CM and we got slaughtered in midfield v better teams.
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Someone show me how Sawyers is any better than Brunt in any way shape or form. After the Leeds game Sawyers tweeted saying how sorry he was and how he and the team arey trying that hardest to put things right.
Actions speak louder than words.
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and has never played defensive midfield in his career so master stroke putting a player who can't tackle in that role in a premier league team.
This was painfully obvious at times last season. I cannot fathom why neither Dowling or Bilic thought it was acceptable not to address the issue in the summer. The fact we resigned Krovinovic makes it all the more worse.
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This was painfully obvious at times last season. I cannot fathom why neither Dowling or Bilic thought it was acceptable not to address the issue in the summer. The fact we resigned Krovinovic makes it all the more worse.
Madeleys piece after Bilic departed suggested the club / Dowling wanted Bilic to address that in the Summer .
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Madeleys piece after Bilic departed suggested the club / Dowling wanted Bilic to address that in the Summer .
It’s such a fundamental area of the pitch. A good midfield allows you to control the game.
The Livermore-sawyers axis caused us problems last season as neither one of them had any defensive nous.
It still astounds me that we’ve come into a division with better players, better qualities, clever movement and persisted with the same partnership that struggled last year.
I know funds were tight but a defensive midfielder and centre half were our main priorities in my view and we failed to address them. Nearly 40 conceded goals later..
Naivety from them both.
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In my humble opinion the Livermore / Sawyers axis doesn’t have any attacking nous either !
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It’s such a fundamental area of the pitch. A good midfield allows you to control the game.
The Livermore-sawyers axis caused us problems last season as neither one of them had any defensive nous.
It still astounds me that we’ve come into a division with better players, better qualities, clever movement and persisted with the same partnership that struggled last year.
I know funds were tight but a defensive midfielder and centre half were our main priorities in my view and we failed to address them. Nearly 40 conceded goals later..
Naivety from them both.
Absolutely it’s bordering on negligent the fact the defence / defensive midfielder situation wasn’t addressed in the summer. Our summer business was absolutely shocking we’ve actually made the back 4 worse when you consider Hegazi has been swapped out for Ivanovic, Kipre was an opportunistic signing with an eye to the future he wasn’t going to make much of an impact on the starting 11 this season.
We’ve not had an out & out defensive midfielder since Yacob left in 2018 for it to not have been addressed when it’s been a glaring weakness for 2 years now is absolutely incompetent, as you said above Sawyer’s & Livermore struggled defensively last year to go into a higher division and not address it is utter stupidity and we are hugely paying the price because of that. Sawyer’s never has been & never will be a holding midfielder & I cannot for the life of me understand why Bilic & now Allardyce have persisted with it.
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It’s such a fundamental area of the pitch. A good midfield allows you to control the game.
The Livermore-sawyers axis caused us problems last season as neither one of them had any defensive nous.
It still astounds me that we’ve come into a division with better players, better qualities, clever movement and persisted with the same partnership that struggled last year.
I know funds were tight but a defensive midfielder and centre half were our main priorities in my view and we failed to address them. Nearly 40 conceded goals later..
Naivety from them both.
Couldn't agree more , I was banging that drum in the Summer when Bilic was jumping up and down for Krov .
1 if not 2 decent DM's and I'm certain it would give Pereira and Diang a bit more freedom.
Livermore / Sawyers got sussed just before the first lockdown
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It drives me mad how anyone can just breeze past him.
Opposition scouting must know this and target him, all it takes is for someone to saunter past him and they have an overload at one of the most dangerous areas of the pitch. Seen it time and time again.
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As proved against Blackpool Sawyers does not have and never will the physicality or desire to compete at centre midfield at any level. He is at best a luxury player, which we can’t afford in the Prem. There must be multiple options out there who could do a much better job than Sawyers. Unfortunately you can’t teach bravery, workrate, desire etc. You either have it or you don’t, sad to say but this guy needs moving on.
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Should play in slippers and a gymslip. Blokes spineless in the tackle.
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Possibly the worst midfielder i've seen in the PL.
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A string of bad performances dont know how hes still getting a game.
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He seemed a very pleasant chap in his interview after the Wolves match so it is nothing personal but when WM in the half time summary say he is getting a lot of abuse on social media
shouldn't that put the manager on enquiry?
How he was picked in preference to Gallagher is beyond me.
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Football managers do make me laugh sometimes that they can’t see the obvious staring them straight in the face. Sawyer’s never was & never will be a defensive midfielder. I’m not making excuses for the lack of application last night, that truly was one of the most half arsed games of football I’ve ever seen from a professional he deserves to be dropped and made to work to earn his place back in the side. Allardyce & Bilic aren’t stupid but I just cannot fathom why both insist on trying to turn him into a defensive midfielder when there has been evidence for 12 months now he isn’t up to it. Sawyer’s isn’t good enough for this level but with a defensive midfielder & box to box 8 in a midfield with him pushed further up the pitch you’d see a much better player.
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Football managers do make me laugh sometimes that they can’t see the obvious staring them straight in the face. Sawyer’s never was & never will be a defensive midfielder. I’m not making excuses for the lack of application last night, that truly was one of the most half arsed games of football I’ve ever seen from a professional he deserves to be dropped and made to work to earn his place back in the side. Allardyce & Bilic aren’t stupid but I just cannot fathom why both insist on trying to turn him into a defensive midfielder when there has been evidence for 12 months now he isn’t up to it. Sawyer’s isn’t good enough for this level but with a defensive midfielder & box to box 8 in a midfield with him pushed further up the pitch you’d see a much better player.
I said the same a few pages back. As much as I criticise him and his performances have been woeful, he’s not and never will be a defensive midfielder. The position he’s being asked to play highlights the poorest parts of his game.
If you played him further forward you’d see a different player. He’s still not good enough for the premier league, but he’s nowhere near competent enough to be a DM.
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Football managers do make me laugh sometimes that they can’t see the obvious staring them straight in the face. Sawyer’s never was & never will be a defensive midfielder. I’m not making excuses for the lack of application last night, that truly was one of the most half arsed games of football I’ve ever seen from a professional he deserves to be dropped and made to work to earn his place back in the side. Allardyce & Bilic aren’t stupid but I just cannot fathom why both insist on trying to turn him into a defensive midfielder when there has been evidence for 12 months now he isn’t up to it. Sawyer’s isn’t good enough for this level but with a defensive midfielder & box to box 8 in a midfield with him pushed further up the pitch you’d see a much better player.
where Pereira plays?
Sawyers was mostly poor last season and is even worse this season, dreadful player.
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Got to say, agree he shouldn't be near the team but are these stories, every single week, from West Brom News, necessary? Picking up tweets to slam Sawyers week in, week out. There are 8-9 players in that team that are not good enough.
https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2021/01/27/retire-embarrassing-to-watch-lots-of-west-brom-fans-tear-into-useless-29y-o/
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Got to say, agree he shouldn't be near the team but are these stories, every single week, from West Brom News, necessary? Picking up tweets to slam Sawyers week in, week out. There are 8-9 players in that team that are not good enough.
https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2021/01/27/retire-embarrassing-to-watch-lots-of-west-brom-fans-tear-into-useless-29y-o/
I agree mate. Saw several posts on Twitter last night slating him for the ‘offside’ goal saying how he just switched off and was all his fault etc etc. There was easily 5/6 players who were to blame for that goal.
Think it’s in everyone’s best interests that he’s rested and taken out the team for a few weeks.
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where Pereira plays?
Sawyers was mostly poor last season and is even worse this season, dreadful player.
I’m not advocating him playing in for Pereira just saying he’d look better further up the pitch which negates his awful defensive ability, he was very good the first half of last season (I know we’ve been dreadful since then) in which he played higher up the pitch, Bilic then decided to drop him deeper & he’s struggled ever since. He’s very much a luxury player who would look good in a possession based championship team, he simply gets found out at the next level up as we don’t have anywhere near as much of the ball & he’s not good enough defensively. I’m not defending the bloke as the lack of effort last night was utterly appalling I just don’t understand why 2 managers now have tried to persist with him in a defensive role when there is 12 months worth of evidence out there to say he doesn’t do that role very well.
It’s all a moot point as Gallagher has to come in for him Saturday & should keep the shirt for the rest of the season so we don’t have to watch half hearted efforts like that last night.
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I’m not advocating him playing in for Pereira just saying he’d look better further up the pitch which negates his awful defensive ability, he was very good the first half of last season (I know we’ve been dreadful since then) in which he played higher up the pitch, Bilic then decided to drop him deeper & he’s struggled ever since. He’s very much a luxury player who would look good in a possession based championship team, he simply gets found out at the next level up as we don’t have anywhere near as much of the ball & he’s not good enough defensively. I’m not defending the bloke as the lack of effort last night was utterly appalling I just don’t understand why 2 managers now have tried to persist with him in a defensive role when there is 12 months worth of evidence out there to say he doesn’t do that role very well.
It’s all a moot point as Gallagher has to come in for him Saturday & should keep the shirt for the rest of the season so we don’t have to watch half hearted efforts like that last night.
Sorry but the only way he could look any good would be if he were that far up the pitch, he was in McDonalds ordering a burger.
He seems a genuine guy but there is just no defending his (lack of) application. The only thing slower than his running is his thought process.
When someone goes past him it's akin to waking up a sleeping dog!
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Unfortunately Romaine is just completely out of his depth at this level, he doesn't have the speed of mind or body. He is one paced in both and there is just no dynamism to his game so players with athleticism can go past him and equally he can't accelerate away from players and create space.
Given time on the ball he can pick a pass and at his best under Slav was pivotal to keeping possesion; infact I'd seen few players in the Champ better at keeping possession in tight areas. It might be that he became less effective towards the end of the season as his weaknesses were identified and targeted. Unfortunately for Romaine this one paced way of playing makes him look lazy and careless and he appears to amble around the pitch.
I guess what frustrates us as fans is that he has talent most of us could only dream of but can't provide the qualities we feel we could if given the opportunity ie fight and desire, to leave the pitch with nothing left, to battle and scrap and put our bodies on the line. As a quite average LB I still HATED anybody going past me and have been know to try and tackle people with my head as I've fallen in desperation to get something on him. Sawyers just doesn't seem to have that devil in him.
Time for Romaine to spend some time on the bench surely, or in storage ready for next season back in the Champ? although you could make an equal case for Livermore in terms of effectiveness but I guess he stays just because he covers more ground.
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It's just painful and frustrating to watch him now. He can't protect or defend, loses possession all too frequently, and just looks lost out there. Confidence is zero.
It's past the point now of him being dropped - I'm absolutely staggered he's still in the first team squad to be honest.
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Got to say, agree he shouldn't be near the team but are these stories, every single week, from West Brom News, necessary? Picking up tweets to slam Sawyers week in, week out. There are 8-9 players in that team that are not good enough.
https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2021/01/27/retire-embarrassing-to-watch-lots-of-west-brom-fans-tear-into-useless-29y-o/
Westbrom news is just an awful clickbait site.
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I’m not advocating him playing in for Pereira just saying he’d look better further up the pitch which negates his awful defensive ability, he was very good the first half of last season (I know we’ve been dreadful since then) in which he played higher up the pitch, Bilic then decided to drop him deeper & he’s struggled ever since. He’s very much a luxury player who would look good in a possession based championship team, he simply gets found out at the next level up as we don’t have anywhere near as much of the ball & he’s not good enough defensively. I’m not defending the bloke as the lack of effort last night was utterly appalling I just don’t understand why 2 managers now have tried to persist with him in a defensive role when there is 12 months worth of evidence out there to say he doesn’t do that role very well.
It’s all a moot point as Gallagher has to come in for him Saturday & should keep the shirt for the rest of the season so we don’t have to watch half hearted efforts like that last night.
You said play him "with a dm and a box to box 8 in midfield with him pushed further up the pitch"...where further up the pitch if not in the 10 role? What formation would we play to facilitate this?
Agreed he is no Dm and Gallagher should come in for him against Fulham.
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Plays against Fulham then allardyce has lost the plot or needs to go to Specsaver they do buy one get one free.
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I dont care if he never plays for us again.
I can forgive players that aren't particularly good but give their all, Bartley is the one that immediately springs to mind but I will never forgive anyone that doesnt put it all in.
If what we are seeing is the best Sawyers can offer in terms of running, in terms of physical effort then he should not be a professional sportsman.
No doubt he would say he's doing all he can but no he isn't. Had it not been for Bartley's block in injury time at Wolves we may well have lost two points in a local Derby all because that half hearted coward wouldnt put in a challenge.
People can hammer me all they want but I dont want people like him at my club.
Bartley and the like I may criticise their ability but never their effort and they at least gain my respect.
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Unfortunately the club have today announced Romaine suffered on line racist abuse during the recent game against City. Disgraceful news.
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Romaine is having a terrible season and fair criticism is justified but never any excuse for sending him racist abuse.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/club-statement-racial-abuse
It sounds like its one of our own as well. Ban them for life which they intend to by sounds of it.
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It sounds like its one of our own as well. Ban them for life which they intend to by sounds of it.
Absolutely. Disgusting.
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As poor as a player he is, his colour should never be brought into it. Not proper fans
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Racism is solely the domain of mindless, inadequate fools. Hopefully whoever did this will be identified and punished appropriately, both by the authorities and by the Club.
It's 2021 for god's sake.
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Disgusting, criticise his performances on the pitch that should never ever verge over into abuse or racism. I hope the idiot gets the book thrown at them & I am glad the club have said they will never step foot into the Hawthorns again. Romaine is still a human at the end of the day to think it’s acceptable to send racism messages shows a serious lack of education & empathy. Sounds like it’s an Albion fan as well which is even more moronic considering how lauded the 3 degrees are still at the club & how it’s one of the things to be proud about supporting the Albion.
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I hope they identify the offenders and ban them for life - absolutely disgusting.
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Football has done a fantastic job in reducing racism, since my first days in the 70's, and we were pioneers of breaking down those barriers.
This proves though, that, even a proud club like ours, with such a proud history and legendry black players, the horrible spectre of racism still lingers over us. :'(
I hope the club roots them out, along with any like minded cohorts, and they never set foot in our hallowed ground again. >:( >:(
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Ban for life and a date in court. He's getting dogs on here but all based on performance. In regards to personal abuse we stand by Romaine and support him 100%.
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As poor as a player he is, his colour should never be brought into it. Not proper fans
Correct. Shameful behaviour. We dont want them associated with our club.
No one deserves a abuse like that
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Ban for life and a date in court. He's getting dogs on here but all based on performance. In regards to personal abuse we stand by Romaine and support him 100%.
Yep. Spot on mate. Well said
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As poor as a player he is, his colour should never be brought into it. Not proper fans
Precisely. Whether he’s any good or not is totally irrelevant. He’s a person who deserves dignity and respect. It’s inexcusable and a criminal offence.
There are some truly vile people around.
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It's disgusting, sadly the bad side of social media is people think they can post want without comeback. You've only to scan twitter and Facebook pages to see the casual racism Lai gets after every game. People who are shocked by one of our fans doing this must live with their head in the sand.
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Absolutely horrible! By all means vent about his performances but this isn't the legacy left behind by some of our greats.
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Probably acceptable to criticise any player regarding performance but never should criticism turn into personal abuse, race related or otherwise. 100% with you on this Romain, do not let these moronic types get at you. Disgusting behaviour, but with present day comms tech, not surprising. Let's see them identified and punished accordingly both by the club and by the law.
These idiots let us as supporters down more than any on field performance by any member of our team, they should not be allowed to hide behind their screen and keyboard. I would like to bet; that like me, a few of even Romain's most severe critics on here would be quite prepared to be able meet with this person face to face to help persuade him/her/etc. to see the error of their attitude.
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Disgraceful behaviour against one of our own.
Kick It Out!!!
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I think more procedures have to be put in place for people to have Twitter accounts or any other form of social media. it's far to easy for people register accounts and type horrid messages to people. This has happened to Man Utd players this week also.
I fear it's gone beyond, all these ads, slogans, kick it out etc etc. This could be someone so young writing these messages.
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I'm presuming the racist comment was on the club's official Twitter feed during the City game. Anyone got a clue as to what the offender actually tweeted?
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Its a sad state of affairs. Social media makes it easier to hide and give out racist abuse. But it feels like we are going backwards, pre covid, fans in stadiums were getting bans for racist abuse.
I've thankfully never heard any abuse at games, this person may claim to be a fan but he doesn't represent W.B.A. He deserves a lifetime ban.
In general a lot of criticism and vile abuse (not racist) is all over twitter during Albion games and 90% of it is directed at Sawyers. Hes been at fault a lot recently but no one deserves constant abuse. He is a human being first and a footballer second.
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I'm presuming the racist comment was on the club's official Twitter feed during the City game. Anyone got a clue as to what the offender actually tweeted?
I read it was sent to his Instagram. But unsure, I'm sure as the story goes on we will find out more
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I'm presuming the racist comment was on the club's official Twitter feed during the City game. Anyone got a clue as to what the offender actually tweeted?
From what I've read it was message sent direct to him. Surly if it was sent during the in game chat it would have been flagged much sooner .
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Not at this club 8) to believe that this so called fan has an issue with Sawyers skin. Do they not know are history? Sorry for your Hurt Romaine.
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Should be publicly named and shamed in my opinion. Absolutely no place in society today for neanderthal behaviour
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Any chance of getting a banner ready with message for Romaine sorted for tomorrow's game? I'm willing to contribute. Not at this club.
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And no doubt it was made by anonymous account with no profile photo because dishing out abuse is so easy for them to get away with. Social media really needs to get its act together in making sure accounts are verified by form of ID and that individuals are then accountable for their posts.
It is shameful that individuals have to accept such abhorrent abuse from anonymous accounts.
Best wishes to Romaine.
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I have said it before and will say it again. Stiff jail sentences for these people is the only way you will stop them.
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I have said it before and will say it again. Stiff jail sentences for these people is the only way you will stop them.
and maximum publicity. We need to know who the racists are amongst us.
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The poor profile of our club at the moment just keeps getting worse. Cyrille & Laurie must be turning in their graves.
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The poor profile of our club at the moment just keeps getting worse. Cyrille & Laurie must be turning in their graves.
I'm sure we wont all be tarred with the same brush due to the actions of a few mindless idiots.
Weed them out and get rid.
You can have all the banners and slogans in the world, until you name and shame and 'educate' them accordingly it will still filter through to the surface
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Shameful. At the end of the day its sport. There are winners and losers and you shake hands afterwards with everyone regardless of colour, race, nationality, religon. Feeling for Romaine.
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I not sure if I were a professional footballer I would engage on Social Media at all and a whole host used to and no longer do so which is not surprising.
I cannot express the depth of my contempt for the idiots who chose to racially abuse anyone regardless of who they are or what they have done. The fact in 2021 that we are still having this conversation is deeply depressing. Throw the book at the perpetrators fine but let's not kid ourselves that fixes anything much.
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Romaine is having a terrible season and fair criticism is justified but never any excuse for sending him racist abuse.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/club-statement-racial-abuse
It sounds like its one of our own as well. Ban them for life which they intend to by sounds of it.
Sorry for my ignorance on such matters but how can we be so sure it was from a Baggies supporter? Aren't a lot of these type of abusive messages anonymous or difficult to trace back?
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Sorry for my ignorance on such matters but how can we be so sure it was from a Baggies supporter? Aren't a lot of these type of abusive messages anonymous or difficult to trace back?
fairly sure the metadata can be used to trace them if the will too is there. There is an article here which discusses what facebook assign (and dont) to files, it seems to suggest "Creator, Copyright, Creator’s Job Title, Credit, and weirdly, Source and Description Writer," are retained.
Facebook's "hidden" metadata codes - CARL SEIBERT ...www.carlseibert.com › facebooks-hidden-metadata-codes
and twitter
As for Twitter, its REST API allows you to read and write Twitter data; in other words, it can be used to create new tweets, read user profiles and the data of followers (among other data from each profile), since it identifies the various Twitter applications and the users who register using OAuth authentication and
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Adrian Durham's going mess his man nappies at the thought of getting his teeth into this one later.
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Sorry for my ignorance on such matters but how can we be so sure it was from a Baggies supporter? Aren't a lot of these type of abusive messages anonymous or difficult to trace back?
I'm just reading between the lines here but the club said he (the offender) will be banned from the Hawthorns for life also many WBA fans are angry at the levels of his performance, which is fine, so also more likely to send an unacceptable and abusive message.
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Sorry for my ignorance on such matters but how can we be so sure it was from a Baggies supporter? Aren't a lot of these type of abusive messages anonymous or difficult to trace back?
Not sure that is at all relevant to be honest. If he is one of ours then ban him for life. If he supports another team, ask them to do the same. Regardless of who he supports he is a racist and needs to be identified.
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Disgusting clearly , as Liam says its far too easy to hide online and there's some awful people about .
We don't actually know a 100 % its from a so called Albion fan yet do we ? , the bad side of social media strikes again.
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Not sure that is at all relevant to be honest. If he is one of ours then ban him for life. If he supports another team, ask them to do the same. Regardless of who he supports he is a racist and needs to be identified.
I agree in terms of whatever was said but I would like to think that it wasn’t a supporter of our club. As a club I really believe we have never judged a player on anything but his ability to perform on the pitch and would like to think our fans saw it that way.
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I agree in terms of whatever was said but I would like to think that it wasn’t a supporter of our club. As a club I really believe we have never judged a player on anything but his ability to perform on the pitch and would like to think our fans saw it that way.
It may well be a so called Albion fan but it's very easy to put 2 and 2 together at the minute and be wrong until we get more information .
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It does not matter which club the idiots are or not affiliated to in their minds, we can hope they aren't "Albion" but let us not kid ourselves our fanbase does not include the 1% or whatever proportion of society that thinks this is okay or can somehow justify it their tiny little minds because Sawyers is struggling.
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Disgusting whoever they may be, after all our club have done in the past to kick out racism i just hope they are not Albion but if they are i hope they are found arrested charged and banned for life.
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Disgusting whoever they may be, after all our club have done in the past to kick out racism i just hope they are not Albion but if they are i hope they are found arrested charged and banned for life.
here here well said keith
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It does not matter which club the idiots are or not affiliated to in their minds, we can hope they aren't "Albion" but let us not kid ourselves our fanbase does not include the 1% or whatever proportion of society that thinks this is okay or can somehow justify it their tiny little minds because Sawyers is struggling.
Which is pretty much what I posted above mate just a shame and a huge problem there's pretty much no way of stopping this online at the minute .
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49 year old man from Kingswinford has been arrested. Good stuff.
"West Midlands Police
@WMPolice
#ARREST | We’ve arrested a man on suspicion of racially abusing West Bromwich Albion player Romaine Sawyers online.
The 49-year-old man from Kingswinford was this evening taken into police custody for questioning."
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Good news, despite what people like to say online, West Mids Police do always act pretty quickly with this stuff. Sadly, they are looking for a second person as well, it seems Romaine suffered more than the one ****.
I’ll never understand fans who criticise a player on social media and include the players Twitter/Instagram name so that they receive the message - racist or not - it’s totally out of order. The fact it was a racist message just makes it even more depressing.
It feels like this is creeping in more and more now, unless it was just under reported by the players before.
How thick do you need to be to think you are going to get away with it. Really slow, dense types.
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Shocking stuff and feel sorry for the lad
Echo thoughts above, the amount of abuse players get online / racist or not is eye opening.
I’ve only started using Twitter the last couple of weeks and the amount of abuse on their it begs belief
Glad they have someone is custody! Yes Romaine is having a bad spell but this is totally unacceptable
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Good news, despite what people like to say online, West Mids Police do always act pretty quickly with this stuff. Sadly, they are looking for a second person as well, it seems Romaine suffered more than the one ****.
I’ll never understand fans who criticise a player on social media and include the players Twitter/Instagram name so that they receive the message - racist or not - it’s totally out of order. The fact it was a racist message just makes it even more depressing.
It feels like this is creeping in more and more now, unless it was just under reported by the players before.
How thick do you need to be to think you are going to get away with it. Really slow, dense types.
I think it's a combination of social media and being reported more now. Back in the day this guy may have been racist in the pub, at home or in his car after the match...now he has a direct line to Sawyers via social media and it has a lasting fingerprint so to speak. I don't think 10 years ago people were less racist either, I just don't think it was reported as much.
I think a lot of these people use it out of frustration, especially when gambling is involved. If you lose 2-0 then you get annoyed, but if you lose it combined with £100 then you get angry. That's not justifying racism at all, but I think a lot of these people are addicts in some way and channel it through racism. As said, he's not the brightest either and the whole outburst is bizarre.
Either
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This was not mentioned on BBC LIVE this morning.
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I'd imagine it would have been on BBC Midlands Today last night.
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Chelsea's Reece James has also been racially abused on social media, what is wrong with these people?
Kick It Out!!!
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https://www.gofundme.com/f/romaine-sawyers-hes-one-of-our-own?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=p_cf+share-flow-1
Nice little fundraiser I’ve just seen on twitter
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Arrest made on this.
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49 year old man from Kingswinford has been arrested. Good stuff.
"West Midlands Police
@WMPolice
#ARREST | We’ve arrested a man on suspicion of racially abusing West Bromwich Albion player Romaine Sawyers online.
The 49-year-old man from Kingswinford was this evening taken into police custody for questioning."
What on earth is this grown man, from some chavvy, common, middle-class suburb playing at? 49, for God's sake. An actual, real grown up. I was expecting some FIFA obsessed child, bored at home from.home-school. Not a (presumed) fan who has seen Albion in far worse states than this, someone that would have grown up with Cunningham, Regis and Batson wearing the stripes.
Hope he gets named and shamed.
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A 49 year old racially abusing somebody on social media. Absolutely pathetic. Hope he's bought to justice as it's completely unacceptable.
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Hope he gets named and shamed.
That will come out in time for sure
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Racists come in all age groups. I'd argue older people are more likely than younger people to hold such views given that they will have grown up in the 60's and 70's and the world was a very different place then.
It's not nice when this sort of thing happens to anyone but I think the fact that it's this club in particular makes it feel a bit more raw. Albion fans idolised the likes of Regis and Cunningham and it's hard to think any genuine Albion fan would tarnish their legacy like this.
Anyway, back to football, as much as I stand right behind Romaine over this personal issue, I really hope we don't see him in the starting line up today. We need bottle out there in the position we're in and total commitment , we dont get that from Romaine.
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What on earth is this grown man, from some chavvy, common, middle-class suburb playing at? 49, for God's sake. An actual, real grown up. I was expecting some FIFA obsessed child, bored at home from.home-school. Not a (presumed) fan who has seen Albion in far worse states than this, someone that would have grown up with Cunningham, Regis and Batson wearing the stripes.
Hope he gets named and shamed.
Hes probably the sort of bloke whose spent most of his time on Twitter retweeting Tommy Robinson. Absolute scum of a man and I hope he gets a hefty jail term.
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A 49 yr old FFS, absolutely pathetic, doesn't surprise me though to be honest as racism has been creeping back into society for a number of years.
Romaine Sawyers might not be playing well and that's open to criticism but it's got nothing to do with his skin colour.
The FA appear to be uninterested in tackling it in any real way, same as every other Federation/Association.
They are better than a lot of Eastern European federations but that's not saying much.
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A 49 yr old FFS, absolutely pathetic, doesn't surprise me though to be honest as racism has been creeping back into society for a number of years.
Romaine Sawyers might not be playing well and that's open to criticism but it's got nothing to do with his skin colour.
The FA appear to be uninterested in tackling it in any real way, same as every other Federation/Association.
They are better than a lot of Eastern European federations but that's not saying much.
What do you mean they're uninterested? You mean all that taking the knee and special t-shirts isn't better than actual action?!
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Absolute scum of a man and I hope he gets a hefty jail term.
Man? Not in my book.
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Racists come in all age groups. I'd argue older people are more likely than younger people to hold such views given that they will have grown up in the 60's and 70's and the world was a very different place then.
It's not nice when this sort of thing happens to anyone but I think the fact that it's this club in particular makes it feel a bit more raw. Albion fans idolised the likes of Regis and Cunningham and it's hard to think any genuine Albion fan would tarnish their legacy like this.
Anyway, back to football, as much as I stand right behind Romaine over this personal issue, I really hope we don't see him in the starting line up today. We need bottle out there in the position we're in and total commitment , we dont get that from Romaine.
Do you have some evidence to prove your assertion about racism being more prevalent in the older generation? Perhaps you are just ageist without any knowledge, Wait to get over 50, apply for a job !!
I'm sure others will be deeply offended by your claim
I grew up well before the 70's, met, drank and played sport together with and worked with all colours, races, religions, nationalities - it was never a consideration or topic. People were just accepted and treated as equals except of course for being wolves supporters in the 50's
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What do you mean they're uninterested? You mean all that taking the knee and special t-shirts isn't better than actual action?!
Taking the knee and wearing t-shirts as well as real action is what is needed. The first things raise awareness then real legal action helps to stop racists posting their nonsense.
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I don’t know whether Romaine or his friends or agent ever looks at this forum but if he does, I hope he sees the absolutely unified response from Albion fans. Whatever we think of him or anyone as a footballer there is no excuse for racist behavior. This of all clubs has a proud history of supporting players of all colours and I really can’t believe that a true Albion fan would choose to abuse one of our own (or indeed an opponent!) in that way.
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I don’t know whether Romaine or his friends or agent ever looks at this forum but if he does, I hope he sees the absolutely unified response from Albion fans. Whatever we think of him or anyone as a footballer there is no excuse for racist behavior. This of all clubs has a proud history of supporting players of all colours and I really can’t believe that a true Albion fan would choose to abuse one of our own (or indeed an opponent!) in that way.
Albion, like every club will have racist fans.
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Man? Not in my book.
Yeah...coward
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Did anyone miss him the last two matches? I think he would’ve been better than Livermore. He can at least occasionally pick out a good pass to a better player unlike Livermore
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Did anyone miss him the last two matches? I think he would’ve been better than Livermore. He can at least occasionally pick out a good pass to a better player unlike Livermore
I hope neither play again but I think your right he can at least pass a ball.
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Can someone genuinely tell me why 2 successive managers continued/continue persevering with Sawyers in a position unfamiliar to him prior to joining the club in which he has on the whole performed poorly. Have there really been no alternatives, although I assume his days are numbered now with the new loan signings replacing him.
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Just saw their first goal again hes marking Kane a second before hes played in and pushes him off and leaves him in space. What a joke.
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Good on the ball today I thought but hopeless defensively as we know. As I said when the team was announced it only made sense if he was played forward, but he wasn’t so it didn’t and it cost us.
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Can see why he’s spent this long without getting to the Premier League, the Championship is his ceiling for me. Not enough goals or assists and I don’t feel his defensive game is strong either. Feels like a luxury player to me and this has been further emphasised due to our lacklustre strike force as he’s been unable to offer anything to pick up the slack.
Just to clarify he comes across as a top bloke and I love his passion for the club but purely from a footballing perspective I fail to see what he offers us if we make it to the Premier League.
Thoughts?
Well I wrote the above quote in July, if this was clear to me then why does even Allardyce persist with playing him? It pains me to say but he has been utterly out of his depth this season one of the worst I’ve seen in an Albion shirt in the Premier League.
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Good on the ball today I thought but hopeless defensively as we know. As I said when the team was announced it only made sense if he was played forward, but he wasn’t so it didn’t and it cost us.
I assumed he’d be playing the number 10 role when the teams were announced, but I was clearly wrong.
Either play him further forward or not at all.
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I assumed he’d be playing the number 10 role when the teams were announced, but I was clearly wrong.
Either play him further forward or not at all.
I don’t even think we’ve given him the chance to play in the Number 10 role since we bought him. Pretty sure that’s where Walsall and Brentford played him and the position he was most effective.
God knows what meaty tackles he puts in during training to keep landing the fence dive midfielder gig.
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I don’t even think we’ve given him the chance to play in the Number 10 role since we bought him. Pretty sure that’s where Walsall and Brentford played him and the position he was most effective.
God knows what meaty tackles he puts in during training to keep landing the fence dive midfielder gig.
Bilic signed him to play the defensive role for some strange reason when he has never as you say played there before. Its baffling and has now not only set the players career and confidence back but Bilic and Allardyce have both played a part in turning some of the fan base against a player who last season was "one of our own".
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I don’t even think we’ve given him the chance to play in the Number 10 role since we bought him. Pretty sure that’s where Walsall and Brentford played him and the position he was most effective.
God knows what meaty tackles he puts in during training to keep landing the fence dive midfielder gig.
It was Thomas Frank at Brentford that converted him to a holding midfielder.
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Sawyers is not a defensive midfielder and I can't understand why anybody ever thought he was least of all a qualified football coach. He is a playmaker he can be either be deployed as in an advanced or deep sitting one. Without a reasonable share of the ball you probably need 2 fairly athletic CM's to partner him in midfield.
Brentford largely dispensed with the DM role altogether but used a back 3 to give them a little bit more defensive solidity.
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Accepting he's a deep sitting playmaker not a DM you would still hope that he would be more switched on to dangerous situations....such as leaving Kane in space for the goal yesterday.
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Accepting he's a deep sitting playmaker not a DM you would still hope that he would be more switched on to dangerous situations....such as leaving Kane in space for the goal yesterday.
No absolutely being misused does not absolve any player in a specific game situation but generalised criticism for not being something that nobody ever said that he was is probably a little unfair.
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Sawyers is a mid to bottom Championship player even in his best role it's as simple as that. He should not be playing for a club like ours. Unpleasant, but true. Not good enough and at 29 not going to get any better.
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Sawyers is a mid to bottom Championship player even in his best role it's as simple as that. He should not be playing for a club like ours. Unpleasant, but true. Not good enough and at 29 not going to get any better.
Why would Bilic and Allardyce start him if he was as you describe?
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Why would Bilic and Allardyce start him if he was as you describe?
Why did they start Livermore?
Managers aren't gods they manage football teams because they happened to be able to play the game to a high level then they have the opportunity to go into management afterwards.
If they had no footballing ability they'd be in the same boat as the rest of us.
Because they were decent players doesnt mean they are any more intelligent than anyone else. They just have a gateway into management in professional football.
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Why did they start Livermore?
Managers aren't gods they manage football teams because they happened to be able to play the game to a high level then they have the opportunity to go into management afterwards.
If they had no footballing ability they'd be in the same boat as the rest of us.
Because they were decent players doesnt mean they are any more intelligent than anyone else. They just have a gateway into management in professional football.
Jose Mourinho disagrees with this
Sven Goran Eriksson disagrees with this
Arsene Wenger disagrees with this
Ralph Rangnick disagrees with this
Arrigo Saachi disagrees with this
Carlos Alberta Parreira disagrees with this
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Jose Mourinho disagrees with this
Sven Goran Eriksson disagrees with this
Arsene Wenger disagrees with this
Ralph Rangnick disagrees with this
Arrigo Saachi disagrees with this
Carlos Alberta Parreira disagrees with this
Roy Hodgson would be up for a debate on it as well.
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Jose Mourinho disagrees with this
Sven Goran Eriksson disagrees with this
Arsene Wenger disagrees with this
Ralph Rangnick disagrees with this
Arrigo Saachi disagrees with this
Carlos Alberta Parreira disagrees with this
You've named half a dozen out of thousands and thousands
of managers.
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Roy Hodgson would be up for a debate on it as well.
Yep.
And a host of others.
Diego Maradonna was the best and yet a poor manager. There is no correlation between playing the game and being a manager or a good one at that.
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You've named half a dozen out of thousands and thousands
of managers.
Strange...I thought if you didn’t play football to a high level you were in the same boat as the rest of us.
These prove that’s not the case at all
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Yep.
And a host of others.
Diego Maradonna was the best and yet a poor manager. There is no correlation between playing the game and being a manager or a good one at that.
But what percentage of managers are people who have played the game at professional level compared to those who haven't? I'm guessing 99%.
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Strange...I thought if you didn’t play football to a high level you were in the same boat as the rest of us.
These prove that’s not the case at all
They don't. John Smith down the local pub can be the best spotter of a player in the world but hes never going to manage Man City.
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Anyway, back to Sawyers.
He may turn out to be a great manager if he goes into it upon retirement.
He will still be useful in the Championship but he needs to be played in the position that suits him best and that’s further forward.
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But what percentage of managers are people who have played the game at professional level compared to those who haven't? I'm guessing 99%.
Probably but it’s nothing to do with playing the game to a high level.
It’s passing their coaches badges and having an interest in becoming one.
Same with coaching.
It’s gone off topic now so back to it please
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Anyway, back to Sawyers.
He may turn out to be a great manager if he goes into it upon retirement.
He will still be useful in the Championship but he needs to be played in the position that suits him best and that’s further forward.
No he wont. He needs selling. He'd be a quarter of the player Pereira is in that role and that isnt good enough.
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Probably but it’s nothing to do with playing the game to a high level.
It’s passing their coaches badges and having an interest in becoming one.
Same with coaching.
It’s gone off topic now so back to it please
Pardew had all his coaching badges. Alan Buckley too. Etc etc etc etc.....
Despite his coaching badges Allardyce left Pereira out on Sunday and picked Sawyers and Peltier. End result .... what everyone wouldve predicted upon seeing the line up.
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No he wont. He needs selling. He'd be a quarter of the player Pereira is in that role and that isnt good enough.
I don’t think I said in Pereira’s role did I??
But CM and further forward without the task of defending so much is his position...not the one he currently occupys and has never played.
I’d rather judge him in his best position than his worst
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Pardew had all his coaching badges. Alan Buckley too. Etc etc etc etc.....
Despite his coaching badges Allardyce left Pereira out on Sunday and picked Sawyers and Peltier. End result .... what everyone wouldve predicted upon seeing the line up.
And the same result that would have been expected even with them in.
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I don’t think I said in Pereira’s role did I??
But CM and further forward without the task of defending so much is his position...not the one he currently occupys and has never played.
I’d rather judge him in his best position than his worst
His "best position" is widely accepted as the number ten role. He isnt good enough for us in that role if we intend to go back up again.
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His "best position" is widely accepted as the number ten role. He isnt good enough for us in that role if we intend to go back up again.
How do you know when he hasn’t been played in it??
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And the same result that would have been expected even with them in.
Unproven.
Sawyers and Peltier at fault for first goal. Sawyers letting Kane in behind him and god only knows what Peltier was doing. Shielding Ajayi from nothing by the looks of it, a good ten yards out of position.
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Unproven.
Sawyers and Peltier at fault for first goal. Sawyers letting Kane in behind him and god only knows what Peltier was doing. Shielding Ajayi from nothing by the looks of it, a good ten yards out of position.
Unproven?
How is it unproven?
99.9 times out of 100 Spurs beat us. Nothing to prove about that....
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How do you know when he hasn’t been played in it??
Because he doesn't have the attributes. His shooting is absolutely woeful for a start.Pereira has five goals in the last half a dozen games or so. Sawyers wouldn't get more than three in 46 games in the Championship.
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Unproven?
How is it unproven?
99.9 times out of 100 Spurs beat us. Nothing to prove about that....
So do Liverpool at Anfield and Man City at their place.
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Because he doesn't have the attributes. His dhootingnis absolutely woeful for a start.Pereira has five goals in the last half a dozen games or so. Sawyers wouldn't get more than three in 46 games in the Championship.
Yet had them at Brentford in the championship. Off the back of which we signed him and then put him in a defensive position :-\
If you’ve got a good forward line you don’t need goals from your creative midfielder....
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So do Liverpool at Anfield and Man City at their place.
Exactly.
Pereira didn’t play at Liverpool either
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Yet had them at Brentford in the championship. Off the back of which we signed him and then out him in a defensive position :-\
If you’ve got a good forward line you don’t need goals from your creative midfielder....
And Brentford went up with Sawyers in the team did they? No their best finish was when they sold him.
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And Brentford went up with Sawyers in the team did they? No their best finish was when they sold him.
So it was Sawyers fault now that Brentford didn’t go up?
They didn’t want him to go...says it all really
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And Brentford went up with Sawyers in the team did they? No their best finish was when they sold him.
And I believe we did go up with him in the side and played out of position.
Mad eh
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Exactly.
Pereira didn’t play at Liverpool either
What are you talking about? You just said Spurs beat us 99.9 times out of 100, your words (statistically absolute rubbish and easily provable) and two better teams failed to beat us at home.
This is just nonsense and not even debatable.
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So it was Sawyers fault now that Brentford didn’t go up?
They didn’t want him to go...says it all really
Says nothing. They are a better side since he left. Again stats prove the point.
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What are you talking about? You just said Spurs beat us 99.9 times out of 100, your words (statistically absolute rubbish and easily provable) and two better teams failed to beat us at home.
This is just nonsense and not even debatable.
And we achieved that result without Pereira. Yet you think we couldn’t achieve a result at Spurs without Pereira..
Thought that was obvious what I was talking about.
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Says nothing. They are a better side since he left. Again stats prove the point.
But we did go up with Sawyers....
How do you reconcile that into your opinion
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And we achieved that result without Pereira. Yet you think we couldn’t achieve a result at Spurs without Pereira..
Thought that was obvious what I was talking about.
Nothing obvious when you are quoting percentage chances that are categorically wrong.
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But we did go up with Sawyers....
How do you reconcile that into your opinion
We had a better overall squad than everyone but Leeds and still relied on Brentford bottling it.
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Nothing obvious when you are quoting percentage chances that are categorically wrong.
Ok 9 times out of 10...is that better?
And they do beat us on paper that many times
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We had a better overall squad than everyone but Leeds and still relied on Brentford bottling it.
But who got promoted and who didn’t?
Who was playing for which club that did get promoted.
Over the course of the season who didn’t bottle it in the end
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Ok 9 times out of 10...is that better?
And they do beat us on paper that many times
Still statistically wrong. Check it out.
What you are saying is wrong. You can clever argue against it all you like but you are still wrong.
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But who got promoted and who didn’t?
Who was playing for which club that did get promoted.
Over the course of the season who didn’t bottle it in the end
We got promoted. All because of Sawyers of course. He made all the difference.
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We got promoted. All because of Sawyers of course. He made all the difference.
Who said it was all because of Sawyers?
He was a part of it. Those are the facts.
I’ve just checked and in the sample size of 13 games away we have
7 losses
5 draws
1 win
All of the above bar last nights loss with a far superior side to what we have now
Those draws were deemed good draws because on paper we shouldnt expect a result against them away from home with their players vs ours.
I wasn’t quoting statistics...you took it as I was.
‘On paper’ we lose to them 9 times out of 10 when you put the squads together...understand now?
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Who said it was all because of Sawyers?
He was a part of it. Those are the facts.
I’ve just checked and in the sample size of 13 games away we have
7 losses
5 draws
1 win
All of the above bar last nights loss with a far superior side to what we have now
Those draws were deemed good draws because on paper we shouldnt expect a result against them away from home with their players vs ours.
I wasn’t quoting statistics...you took it as I was.
‘On paper’ we lose them 9 times out of 10 when you put the squads together...understand now?
No we dont. You are still wrong and that is official not based on your personal opinion of the merits of each particular squad of players.
If you are basing it upon that you cannot claim that fact until we've played each other ten times and Spurs have won 9, even then it is the minimum sample.
Anyway I'm bored of this debate you are just going to try and find any left field angle you can to (in your mind) "prove" what cannot possibly be proved, so carry on.
And no this isn't an admission of defeat (yeah, really), it's giving up on a tedious discussion that I've already "factually" won and am now bored of arguing ridiculously tenuous issues.
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No we dont. You are still wrong and that is official not based on your personal opinion of the merits of each particular squad of players.
If you are basing it upon that you cannot claim that fact until we've played each other ten times and Spurs have won 9, even then it is the minimum sample.
Anyway I'm bored of this debate you are just going to try and find any left field angle you can to (in your mind) "prove" what cannot possibly be proved, so carry on.
And no this isn't an admission of defeat (yeah, really), it's giving up on a tedious discussion that I've already "factually" won and am now bored of arguing ridiculously tenuous issues.
Wow!
I think you’re wrong....that’s how it works doesn’t it?
You’ve provided your opinion, not facts. You haven’t quoted a single fact yet.
So unsure how you’ve factually won without providing any facts.
But yes this has been tedious...I can agree with you there
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But yes this has been tedious...I can agree with you there
I've read through a couple of pages of yourself and Atomic debating and I can't even work out what your discussing as it's quite abstract :D. If we are just looking and comparing Sawyers with Livermore then for me, it's a case of:
Sawyers: Good on the ball and no use without the ball
Livermore: A complete liability on the ball and also no use without the ball
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I've read through a couple of pages of yourself and Atomic debating and I can't even work out what your discussing as it's quite abstract :D. If we are just looking and comparing Sawyers with Livermore then for me, it's a case of:
Sawyers: Good on the ball and no use without the ball
Livermore: A complete liability on the ball and also no use without the ball
To be fair he lost me a few times. So I just replied to whatever comment he put up next
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Sawyers has a role to play next season for me. He isnt premiership class. But if played correctly (NOT A DM) he is a top end championship player, easily.
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Sawyers has a role to play next season for me. He isnt premiership class. But if played correctly (NOT A DM) he is a top end championship player, easily.
With Yokuslu, or similar, Sawyers would be a different animal in the Champ.
As you say, probably not good enough for the Prem but, provided we replace Livermore with a proper DM, he'll do a job next season.
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If we play Sawyers next season we will be back to the same problem we've had for a while. Sawyers cant play further forward he doesnt have the legs. We dont want to go back to a slow, non athletic midfield. We've finally got away from that now, we dont want to go back to it again.
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Sawyers has a role to play next season for me. He isnt premiership class. But if played correctly (NOT A DM) he is a top end championship player, easily.
Well hopefully you will be considered for the Blackburn/Forrest/Bournemouth jobs
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Well hopefully you will be considered for the Blackburn/Forrest/Bournemouth jobs
Is there any need for this? Why not just respond without the sarcasm? ::)
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Is there any need for this? Why not just respond without the sarcasm? ::)
I’m assuming you will respond in kind to every single post on here that has sarcasm then?
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If we play Sawyers next season we will be back to the same problem we've had for a while. Sawyers cant play further forward he doesnt have the legs. We dont want to go back to a slow, non athletic midfield. We've finally got away from that now, we dont want to go back to it again.
We got promoted with him in the team last time, so that is a problem I would like to replicate. He doesn't have the engine or defensive desire for the premiership but he is undoubtedly an excellent passer of the ball and an intelligent player in the championship so I've no problem seeing him in and around the team next season.
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He was absolutley sublime for a few months remember guys. When we changed shape and made him change his role, thats when he and us struggled. He played well, we played well. he stopped playing well....we mainly stopped playing well.
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He was absolutley sublime for a few months remember guys. When we changed shape and made him change his role, thats when he and us struggled. He played well, we played well. he stopped playing well....we mainly stopped playing well.
Thats also true, i remember not being overly enthralled by him in his EFL season with us OVERALL but he seemed a bright player the first chink of games.
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Having watched Leeds last season and this, I think we need to speed up our play not slow it down, which stands you in good stead if we are promoted.
Unless you have the quality slowing down the game is suicide in the Premier.
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Having watched Leeds last season and this, I think we need to speed up our play not slow it down, which stands you in good stead if we are promoted.
Unless you have the quality slowing down the game is suicide in the Premier.
This.
There is no way we're going to survive in the PL playing a slow tempo. We'd have to be technically amazing to do that.
Allardyce has already had a go at Pereira for being too slow on the ball.
We need to up the tempo of our play and we wont do that with Sawyers in the team. We have to build a team capable of staying up once we get up and that means installing a way of playing that enables us to adjust to PL football more comfortably.
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This.
There is no way we're going to survive in the PL playing a slow tempo. We'd have to be technically amazing to do that.
Allardyce has already had a go at Pereira for being too slow on the ball.
We need to up the tempo of our play and we wont do that with Sawyers in the team. We have to build a team capable of staying up once we get up and that means installing a way of playing that enables us to adjust to PL football more comfortably.
We need to speed up
speed of thought is the issue, top players know before the ball arrives where to play it, all too often this season our lot, receive it, control, look up, decision, too late !
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This.
There is no way we're going to survive in the PL playing a slow tempo. We'd have to be technically amazing to do that.
Allardyce has already had a go at Pereira for being too slow on the ball.
We need to up the tempo of our play and we wont do that with Sawyers in the team. We have to build a team capable of staying up once we get up and that means installing a way of playing that enables us to adjust to PL football more comfortably.
That's optimistic with this lot
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speed of thought is the issue, top players know before the ball arrives where to play it, all too often this season our lot, receive it, control, look up, decision, too late !
Yep.
We have too many players that need too many touches every time they get the ball. When you have Pereira, Sawyers, Phillips, Diangana in the same team you're never going to survive in the Premier League.
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Sawyers looks good in chumps because he shields the ball brilliantly while turning out of pressure, in the prem as teams press in unison he often turns into trouble (IMO)
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Sawyers looks good in chumps because he shields the ball brilliantly while turning out of pressure, in the prem as teams press in unison he often turns into trouble (IMO)
In a nutshell
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Sawyers looks good in chumps because he shields the ball brilliantly while turning out of pressure, in the prem as teams press in unison he often turns into trouble (IMO)
Really good call. For me the real difference between the PL and Championship is that so many players have both good technique AND physicality including speed across the ground. RS is good technically in regards to his control and passing range, and is very composed on the ball, but he just doesn't have the physicality to compete.... we have often seen players just run past him and even if he is turning away from a player he will rarely then be able to get away.
It's no new thing. I remember being shocked in those first few games in the PL how many defenders could match Jason Roberts stride for stride, after a year seeing him leave many a Championship defender trailing. A decent manager should find Romaine has a lot to offer in the Championship, but please not in partnership with JL.
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I'm just not sure where I'd play Sawyers , actually not sure if I would . Sawyers and Grant present issues regarding where best to play them whilst balancing out a side
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I'm just not sure where I'd play Sawyers , actually not sure if I would . Sawyers and Grant present issues regarding where best to play them whilst balancing out a side
Both good championship players which is quite handy really considering......
Almost as though the powers to be were planning for this before we even went up last year.
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Both good championship players which is quite handy really considering......
Almost as though the powers to be were planning for this before we even went up last year.
I think all of our recruitment screamed relegation until the mid year panic bought in the current crop. I actually thought it was part of a longer term plan until Slav was removed, at which point it was just highlighted as incompetence. It would also be incompetence to allow Romaine and Jake to provide the midfield base for next year.
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I think all of our recruitment screamed relegation until the mid year panic bought in the current crop. I actually thought it was part of a longer term plan until Slav was removed, at which point it was just highlighted as incompetence. It would also be incompetence to allow Romaine and Jake to provide the midfield base for next year.
I will say that I like Romaine, I was happy when he came back and some of his 'languid style' of play worked well in the Championship, mainly because he had the time on the ball. I don't have any issue with him being part of our set up next year.
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I will say that I like Romaine, I was happy when he came back and some of his 'languid style' of play worked well in the Championship, mainly because he had the time on the ball. I don't have any issue with him being part of our set up next year.
I agree, he's a good Champ player. The romantic in me would love to see him use this year's experience and improve his game ready for another go at the Prem. Sadly, I don't think he can. The flaws in his game, lack of pace, lack of urgency, slow of thought, are too deeply rooted. Would love him to prove me wrong as, in terms of shielding the ball and passing composure, he is exceptional.
I hope we see him this season alongside Yokuslu (maybe when Gallagher's suspension kicks in), just to get an idea of how he fares with a proper DM in the side.
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Both good championship players which is quite handy really considering......
Almost as though the powers to be were planning for this before we even went up last year.
Missing my point mate , Sawyers.....well he isnt a DM . I'm not sure whats best given his lack of pace . Grant we are told is a left forward , I presume thats in a 4 3 3 which causes us more issues . I'll say it now , Grant was a brainless signing with Bilic trying him as a lone forward just to add to it .
If Grant smacks in 18 + goals next season I'll hold my hands up , I don't see it .
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Missing my point mate , Sawyers.....well he isnt a DM . I'm not sure whats best given his lack of pace . Grant we are told is a left forward , I presume thats in a 4 3 3 which causes us more issues . I'll say it now , Grant was a brainless signing with Bilic trying him as a lone forward just to add to it .
If Grant smacks in 18 + goals next season I'll hold my hands up , I don't see it .
If we had Grant last season I'm confident he'd have scored a 18+. Even Kanu scored 10!
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Missing my point mate , Sawyers.....well he isnt a DM . I'm not sure whats best given his lack of pace . Grant we are told is a left forward , I presume thats in a 4 3 3 which causes us more issues . I'll say it now , Grant was a brainless signing with Bilic trying him as a lone forward just to add to it .
If Grant smacks in 18 + goals next season I'll hold my hands up , I don't see it .
Sorry, see where you are coming from now.
I would like to see Sawyers in the DM position with Yosuklu - bit of a good/cop bad cop pairing for me; Sawyers can shield and his distribution is better, whereas you know when you have been tackled by Okay..... ;D
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Sorry, see where you are coming from now.
I would like to see Sawyers in the DM position with Yosuklu - bit of a good/cop bad cop pairing for me; Sawyers can shield and his distribution is better, whereas you know when you have been tackled by Okay..... ;D
Is Sawyers passing better than YokuÅŸlu? Not convinced it is. Then there is the rest of his game...
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Is Sawyers passing better than YokuÅŸlu? Not convinced it is. Then there is the rest of his game...
Sawyers is toast at this level regardless of partner, and we do not want Yokuslu's game to be impaired covering for him. Would be genuinely delighted if he proved me wrong of course.
However in the Championship I would be happy to see him as part of a more mobile midfield unit, just not necessarily as automatic firsty.
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Is Sawyers passing better than YokuÅŸlu? Not convinced it is. Then there is the rest of his game...
Do we have a better passer of the ball than Yokuslu?
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I believe he has a year left on his contract - he should be useful in the champ next year, after that, who knows where we will be?
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I believe he has a year left on his contract - he should be useful in the champ next year, after that, who knows where we will be?
I don't think he should be anywhere near the side next season. The things that's worrying about Sawyers is he had about 3 good months of football for us and that was when he joined he then struggled. He isn't a player we should be carrying he is very much a luxury player. For me we have the players who will definitely leave in the summer such as the players out of contract and the loanees then there's the players who fall in the next category who we should be looking to move on for a small fee to shift them and get their wages off the books such as Sawyers, Phillips and Livermore.
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I don't think he should be anywhere near the side next season. The things that's worrying about Sawyers is he had about 3 good months of football for us and that was when he joined he then struggled. He isn't a player we should be carrying he is very much a luxury player. For me we have the players who will definitely leave in the summer such as the players out of contract and the loanees then there's the players who fall in the next category who we should be looking to move on for a small fee to shift them and get their wages off the books such as Sawyers, Phillips and Livermore.
disagree, he was a pivotal part of the "almost" Brentford side before he came here,
from wiki "was described as "one of the standout players at Griffin Park this season with his touch and passing range impressing many".[31] He was voted Players' Player of the Year by the Brentford squad and was also named as Community Player of the Year
he is a good championship player
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disagree, he was a pivotal part of the "almost" Brentford side before he came here,
from wiki "was described as "one of the standout players at Griffin Park this season with his touch and passing range impressing many".[31] He was voted Players' Player of the Year by the Brentford squad and was also named as Community Player of the Year
he is a good championship player
That was two years ago plus I'm going off of what I saw last season.
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I would be ok with him getting a 2nd chance next season, but he has to be used differently.
Let's just say in a freak world we sign Yokuslu or his clone, a 4141 with Yokuslu as the holding midfielder with Pereira/a new CM and Sawyers in front of him could work and bring out the best in Sawyers, with him further up the pitch which a lot of people say he played for Brentford.
But we know that Sawyers & Livermore as a double defensive pivot will not work so we really don't want to see that.
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Delighted to see the police have charged a Simon Silwood from Kingswinford over the alleged racist abuse of Sawyers. No place for it in society.
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Delighted to see the police have charged a Simon Silwood from Kingswinford over the alleged racist abuse of Sawyers. No place for it in society.
Not some spotty teenage internet herbert either, he's 49 years old........
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-birmingham-56730629
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A few pages on twitter claim Stoke are in talks with us regarding Romaine Sawyers. I don't think he suits vval at all a very casual and lazy player who won't suit energetic high press. It's worth pointing out none of the pages are classed as the usual reliable bunch.
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I wouldn't call Sawyers lazy, that's the way he plays
It suited us at the time
I think we've outgrown our local lad and if he goes I wish him well
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Apparently been left out the squad tonight and Stoke are interested.
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Apparently been left out the squad tonight and Stoke are interested.
Fingers crossed as I can't see him fitting into Valerien's system. It would mean we need to sign 2 CMs in short order though.
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Fine by me so long as we improve upon him. Watching him last season was just excrutiatingly painful.
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Can’t let him go before we have a replacement in as we are already short in that area. Snodgrass to come back but his injury record isn’t great
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Wonder how much they’ll be offering?
No qualms with moving him on but it must mean we have some replacements lined up?
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Wonder if we could swap him for Kev Campbells lad ? :D
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Just hasn't worked out for us and player, not to bothered about fee as owner's ain't going to invest in first team just getting another 20 k off the wage bill.
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Don’t know if he’s lazy, he just isn’t very good
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Sawyers made the Championship team of the season last time around . He isn’t the best but he isn’t as awful as a lot of our fans seem to think.
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Sawyer's is a decent championship footballer with the right players around him
Just not him and Livermore
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Sawyer's is a decent championship footballer with the right players around him
Just not him and Livermore
I think he would be decent if we played him with Mowatt but the football wasn't as fast paced and high energy.
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I think he would be decent if we played him with Mowatt but the football wasn't as fast paced and high energy.
But it is and it will be, all season.
Sawyers is a good player. Not a great player, but a good one. But like 99.99% of players, he needs to be in the right role and system for him and CM for us won't be it.
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Sawyers I believe was signed was a safe stop gap in the midfield at 29 moving him on for a decent fee is the correct move.
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Sawyers I believe was signed was a safe stop gap in the midfield at 29 moving him on for a decent fee is the correct move.
Agree with this. I also think our current managers strategy goes against what Sawyers is about.
I view him as an ok Championship player, and Stoke are an ok Championship side under O'Neill, so at 30 it makes sense for everyone involved.
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Its clear he is the furtherst thing from being a suitbale player in this system so if we can get some money for him and move his wages off the books then that suits everyone. Hopefully allow someone else to come in that fits the bill.
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He gave us half a good season when he arrived but was poor 2nd half and totally out of his depth the whole of last season. Likeable guy as he’s an Albion fan but painfully slow, error prone and looks lazy. He’s 30 soon as well so he ain’t going to improve much. All the best to him though.
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A good signing who was pivotal to getting us promoted, then it fell apart for him in the premiership. A transfer out would now make sense, as Bilic played to his strengths with more of a possession game that isn’t happening now under VI.
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If we can get the £2-3m back that we paid, with him approaching 30, then that's good business for me. Good Championship midfielder, not suited to our current system and nowhere near good enough to play regularly in the Prem. Means we'd need to bring 2 centre mids in though.
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.....Likeable guy as he’s an Albion fan.......
He sees Albion as 'his' club as we developed him and he has a close affinity to the club. But he was a Villa supporter as a kid. He even turned up for his first training session as a youngster wearing a woolly Villa hat. True story.
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If we can get the £2-3m back that we paid, with him approaching 30, then that's good business for me. Good Championship midfielder, not suited to our current system and nowhere near good enough to play regularly in the Prem. Means we'd need to bring 2 centre mids in though.
I'd be very, very surprised if Stoke are willing to do anything other than a loan and cover of his wages. I wouldn't expect much of a fee.
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Nothing been mentioned since last Friday it seems? Be surprised if he’s in the squad tomorrow.
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Signing for Stoke tomorrow on a season long loan
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"John Percy
@JPercyTelegraph
Stoke transfer news: #wba midfielder Romaine Sawyers will sign on a season-long loan tomorrow #scfc"
If he's in the last year of his deal better be a good fee.
Edit - Apparently we hold the option for another year.
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Signing for Stoke tomorrow on a season long loan
Good for him, good for us. Really hope his wages are going towards a new player now as we are threadbare…
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Wish him well.
Need 2 centre mids in now and a striker.
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Whilst I’m happy to move him on, slight concern he may make them stronger and cost us in the long term, they look decent so far, thoughts?
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I wish him well and hold no ill feeling towards him.
A good championship player but looked out his depth last season.
Still not sure we used him correctly at all. Was never a defensive midfielder and should never have been asked to do the role.
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Good luck mate, you achieved your goal with us
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Good deal all round, he isn’t getting in this side.
Good luck Romaine
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It's a shame we couldn't get a fee for him, but hopefully us being willing to let him go on loan is creating an opening which we're able to fill with someone who can play in Valerien's style. I think it means we need to sign 2 CMs now, but hopefully we were going to sign one anyway even if Sawyers stayed.
I wish Romaine well in the future.
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It's a shame we couldn't get a fee for him, but hopefully us being willing to let him go on loan is creating an opening which we're able to fill with someone who can play in Valerien's style. I think it means we need to sign 2 CMs now, but hopefully we were going to sign one anyway even if Sawyers stayed.
I wish Romaine well in the future.
We've got a further years option on him so can ask for a fee at end of season if we take up that option. Originally I read it was a 3 year deal he was on with no options but that was wrong.
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We've got a further years option on him so can ask for a fee at end of season if we take up that option.
Alternatively, we run a risk of being stuck with him for another season if no-one else wants to sign him!
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Torn on this one. Had Stoke been giving us a fee in the region of £1m I’d get the deal as it brings in more funds, but I’m not overly sure on the benefit of sending him on loan to a promotion rival. Sawyers was great here for the first few months and if played next to a genuine defensive midfielder, he could easily rediscover that form. There’s a reason Brentford fans loved him.
With all of the player drain at the club and the lack of fees being spent, should we be concerned about the finances?
Looking at our squad now, I really don’t know how we cope without signing a central midfielder. We’ve lost Yokuslu, Maitland-Niles, Harper, Krov and now Sawyers from last season, while Snodgrass is only just coming back from injury. It’s very thin in that area of the pitch. I hope we have someone lined up.
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Always a bit sad to lose a local player. That's him, Edwards, Harper and Field gone. Don't think we have anyone left from the west Midlands in our squad.
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Always a bit sad to lose a local player. That's him, Edwards, Harper and Field gone. Don't think we have anyone left from the west Midlands in our squad.
:( I had high hopes for Field...and thinking about it he had a "good engine" and would have been good backup for the squad as a DM.
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Torn on this one. Had Stoke been giving us a fee in the region of £1m I’d get the deal as it brings in more funds, but I’m not overly sure on the benefit of sending him on loan to a promotion rival. Sawyers was great here for the first few months and if played next to a genuine defensive midfielder, he could easily rediscover that form. There’s a reason Brentford fans loved him.
With all of the player drain at the club and the lack of fees being spent, should we be concerned about the finances?
Looking at our squad now, I really don’t know how we cope without signing a central midfielder. We’ve lost Yokuslu, Maitland-Niles, Harper, Krov and now Sawyers from last season, while Snodgrass is only just coming back from injury. It’s very thin in that area of the pitch. I hope we have someone lined up.
You'd assume we could now pick up a free/loan player in the middle ourselves from this.
As for Stoke, I agree they look a good side under O'Neill. I still think it's the right move though and doubt it will impact us that much.
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:( I had high hopes for Field...and thinking about it he had a "good engine" and would have been good backup for the squad as a DM.
The lad is made of biscuits and not made for the physical and demanding nature of Val-ball.
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I think it's safe to say that he would have been surplus to requirements this season. After Slav left he had no place in the team. I wish him the best. Just don't think he has a place in the current set up.
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Alternatively, we run a risk of being stuck with him for another season if no-one else wants to sign him!
True but I guess they will hope he does ok this season at Stoke for the purpose of drumming up interest.
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Depends where they play him but Stoke have a lot of midfielders: Clucas, Allen, Cousins and Thompson listed as CM but only Obi Mikel at DM and Powell at AM. I guess he's going as DM or AM.
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Sawyers going will have minimal impact, just like Stoke. :-*
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Depends where they play him but Stoke have a lot of midfielders: Clucas, Allen, Cousins and Thompson listed as CM but only Obi Mikel at DM and Powell at AM. I guess he's going as DM or AM.
Clucas plays for Swansea now, I believe he scored against Stoke the other day.
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Clucas plays for Swansea now, I believe he scored against Stoke the other day.
No it was the other way round. He joined Stoke from Swansea and scored and rubbed it in the face of the Swansea fans afterwards.
I think he's probably a more practical player than Sawyers in fairness.
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No it was the other way round. He joined Stoke from Swansea and scored and rubbed it in the face of the Swansea fans afterwards.
I think he's probably a more practical player than Sawyers in fairness.
Whoops ;D .
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Confirmed on OS now. Have a good one Romaine and try and keep some value for us.
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Best wishes Romaine 👍
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Well, I wouldn’t have seen this coming when he signed but it seems the best thing to do.
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Unsure on this one. We shouldn’t be allowing players to strengthen rival clubs.
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I'm not overly keen on a Sawyers return.
To avoid any confusion the post Mo is responding to was quoting this from yours truly on the first page of this thread.
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Wish Romaine all the best. No doubt he’s a very refined and competent footballer who’s undoubtedly lost his way. For me, he lacks the desire/intensity and guile to succeed in the prem….but more than able at this level.
I think he needs to build his confidence again, as last season was hard on every player in the team. The abuse he suffered (by an idiot) was just awful and NOT the Albion way; so again I wish him all the very best and hope he comes back stronger.
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To avoid any confusion the post Mo is responding to was quoting this from yours truly on the first page of this thread.
My wife's phone is hopeless lol
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Good luck mate great first six months at club but for whatever reason thinks tailed off.
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Good luck Romaine. Seems like some people have forgotten some of your very classy performances when you first arrived. You’ll always be one of our own.
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Good luck to Romaine
Go and earn yourself another 3yr deal somewhere lad
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All the best wishes Romaine. Great quality in the right place in the right team team with a manager who knows how. You were superb for us at times so many thanks.
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good player used incorrectly, good Luck Romaine except when the clayheads play us of course
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good player used incorrectly, good Luck Romaine except when the clayheads play us of course
Do wonder whether we will have some sort of a gentleman’s agreement in place against him playing us.
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Do wonder whether we will have some sort of a gentleman’s agreement in place against him playing us.
He's on loan there, he can't play against us.
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He's on loan there, he can't play against us.
I had it pegged that this was just the rules in the Premier League. Happy to be wrong in this instance
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I had it pegged that this was just the rules in the Premier League. Happy to be wrong in this instance
No mate, standard rules from top to bottom of the pyramid i believe.
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I had it pegged that this was just the rules in the Premier League. Happy to be wrong in this instance
Ditto, thought that was prem only.
Also, Could this be the season my Stoke prediction comes good ? You cannot keep spending on their scale and not fluke some success eventually.
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Ditto, thought that was prem only.
Also, Could this be the season my Stoke prediction comes good ? You cannot keep spending on their scale and not fluke some success eventually.
No. They're still ****.
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No. They're still ****.
Phew, that’s a relief !!
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Anyone heard of any reported loan fee? Assume they're paying his wages but interested to know if there's a fee on top of that.
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Anybody catch Sawyers’ comments today on Twitter? I’d say there was a definite dig at how he’s been used.
Thanked the Stoke fans then said: “Even got to play as an 8â€. This was followed by a few emojis.
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Anybody catch Sawyers’ comments today on Twitter? I’d say there was a definite dig at how he’s been used.
Thanked the Stoke fans then said: “Even got to play as an 8â€. This was followed by a few emojis.
I don't care he's half the player Mowatt is. He can make all the digs he likes.
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I don't care he's half the player Mowatt is. He can make all the digs he likes.
If only he was as interested on his time on the pitch as he is on twitter.
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If only he was as interested on his time on the pitch as he is on twitter.
He's lazy for me. I understand he may have been out of his depth in the PL but that doesn't stop him busting a gut and making a nuisance of himself. He did none of that last season, no-one will tell me he ran as hard or as much as he could. Just strutted around. That's fine if you're world class and playing for Man City but when you're in a bottom of the table team getting chasing after chasing it isnt acceptable.
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He's lazy for me. I understand he may have been out of his depth in the PL but that doesn't stop him busting a gut and making a nuisance of himself. He did none of that last season, no-one will tell me he ran as hard or as much as he could. Just strutted around. That's fine if you're world class and playing for Man City but when you're in a bottom of the table team getting chasing after chasing it isnt acceptable.
Spot on. I think sometimes as fans we can forgive a lack of quality from time to time but a player can neve get away with not trying and showing some fight. Romaine showed some decent glimpses during his first season with us. Last season he was awful as you said a lack of effort was the main factor.
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I went on to the Stoke forum to see how he played last night and they were all very complimentary about him and a few even said the best 10 minute debut they’ve seen.
Hope he’s a success there and Stoke want to keep him on at the end of his stint.
He was fantastic in Slav’s system before the lockdown but as time went on and he got pressured on the ball more and more his deficiencies started to show.
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I went on to the Stoke forum to see how he played last night and they were all very complimentary about him and a few even said the best 10 minute debut they’ve seen.
Hope he’s a success there and Stoke want to keep him on at the end of his stint.
He was fantastic in Slav’s system before the lockdown but as time went on and he got pressured on the ball more and more his deficiencies started to show.
Thing is, when you’re playing well and winning games he’s very easy on the eye and does the basic stuff really well. Knocks the ball around calmly at his own pace and is a good quarter-back type player.
When you’re needing someone to dig in, put themselves about and pick out killer passes when you’re chasing the game or struggling to break the opposition down you need someone a bit more ruthless. How many times did we struggle in 2019/20 when teams sat deep and we seemed to be left with Sawyers knocking it round in our own half or turning round on the half way line, especially when paired with another defensive minded midfielder.
10-20 minute cameos to see a game out against a poor Forest side aren’t going to be the best ones to judge him on.
Do wish him the best of luck though. At his age he needs to be playing regularly, especially at this level, and he’s clearly Baggies through and through, a bit of a wrong place wrong time now with us unfortunately.
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I think what angered some fans and certainly me was the fact that he didn't put the effort in because it's "just not in my nature/game etc" or whatever the comments were.
Awful attitude for someone in that position to have. If you are on 20k a week you do whatever the hell you are told to do on the pitch.
Hope he has a good season and we get some money for him, that's it.
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Thing is, when you’re playing well and winning games he’s very easy on the eye and does the basic stuff really well. Knocks the ball around calmly at his own pace and is a good quarter-back type player.
When you’re needing someone to dig in, put themselves about and pick out killer passes when you’re chasing the game or struggling to break the opposition down you need someone a bit more ruthless. How many times did we struggle in 2019/20 when teams sat deep and we seemed to be left with Sawyers knocking it round in our own half or turning round on the half way line, especially when paired with another defensive minded midfielder.
10-20 minute cameos to see a game out against a poor Forest side aren’t going to be the best ones to judge him on.
Do wish him the best of luck though. At his age he needs to be playing regularly, especially at this level, and he’s clearly Baggies through and through, a bit of a wrong place wrong time now with us unfortunately.
Agree with this. I think when the chips are down and you see whose willing to get dirty is when Sawyers goes missing.
I think it's also a bad mentality to claim you only play one way or another. The reality is that if you don't do basic stuff like tracking back because you'd prefer to jog rather than run then you will get caught out. For years Craig Dawson played out of position and never moaned and even looked good. Even O'Shea did it under Bilic, it's the sign of a modern, adaptable footballer.
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He's lazy for me. I understand he may have been out of his depth in the PL but that doesn't stop him busting a gut and making a nuisance of himself. He did none of that last season, no-one will tell me he ran as hard or as much as he could. Just strutted around. That's fine if you're world class and playing for Man City but when you're in a bottom of the table team getting chasing after chasing it isnt acceptable.
As some one once said to me, give an average player time, you make them look good, give a good player time you make them look great, Sawyer's has the ability to make opponents look good or great.
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I wish Romaine well- he needs to be playing at his age and hopefully he can convince a championship club into paying him a good wage on a 3 year deal or something at the end of his loan spell.
I give him credit for clawing his way back having been let go from our youth system- that is no mean feat for any young footballer and very few manage it.
But with a manager head on, you simply cannot believe that he has been allowed to get away with such a happy go lucky style in midfield, no defensive positional awareness and worrying no bust a gut workrate. He is very lucky he played at Brentford under Smith and Bilic at Albion, where he was given freedom to do it.
Because he hasn’t improved that side of his game- he’s sadly found his own ceiling and that’s a shame when you know there could be more to add to his game.
As I said though- good luck in his career.
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Anybody catch Sawyers’ comments today on Twitter? I’d say there was a definite dig at how he’s been used.
Thanked the Stoke fans then said: “Even got to play as an 8â€. This was followed by a few emojis.
If he has a dig, so be it, he is more than in his right to. Been abused and treated appallingly by some Albion fans. Good luck to the lad.
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If he has a dig, so be it, he is more than in his right to. Been abused and treated appallingly by some Albion fans. Good luck to the lad.
Its also not his fault after years playing a certain role that suits him we buy him and try to turn him into a defensive midfielder when he hasn't got a tackle in him. Similar in how we tried to turn Grant into a lone striker.
Do we not actually watch some of the players we sign?
Hope he does well at Stoke or whereever he goes after this season ends.
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I wish Romaine well- he needs to be playing at his age and hopefully he can convince a championship club into paying him a good wage on a 3 year deal or something at the end of his loan spell.
I give him credit for clawing his way back having been let go from our youth system- that is no mean feat for any young footballer and very few manage it.
But with a manager head on, you simply cannot believe that he has been allowed to get away with such a happy go lucky style in midfield, no defensive positional awareness and worrying no bust a gut workrate. He is very lucky he played at Brentford under Smith and Bilic at Albion, where he was given freedom to do it.
Because he hasn’t improved that side of his game- he’s sadly found his own ceiling and that’s a shame when you know there could be more to add to his game.
As I said though- good luck in his career.
That's right, his lack of success is down to his poor attitude mainly although he was used in some daft ways by previous managers. He dictated his own glass ceiling with his attitude ultimately in my opinion. I cannot understand the mindset of a person that refuses to improve themself. Constructive criticism should be welcomed and embraced fully, not met with a shrug of the shoulders.
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I'm actually a bit gutted league rules don't allow him to play against us.
He'd be a liability against the swarm.
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I'm actually a bit gutted league rules don't allow him to play against us.
He'd be a liability against the swarm.
Precisely this. He can have all the digs he wants, he simply was not good enough when we needed him.
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Its also not his fault after years playing a certain role that suits him we buy him and try to turn him into a defensive midfielder when he hasn't got a tackle in him. Similar in how we tried to turn Grant into a lone striker.
Do we not actually watch some of the players we sign?
Hope he does well at Stoke or whereever he goes after this season ends.
But that wouldn’t and shouldn’t stop him putting in effort as a bare minimum……didnarsenal watch Henry before they signed him?😀,there are some very good players that have converted positionafter signing.
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But that wouldn’t and shouldn’t stop him putting in effort as a bare minimum……didnarsenal watch Henry before they signed him?😀,there are some very good players that have converted positionafter signing.
Not saying it shouldn't stop him. He's always been a laid back player, Sky even did a feature on him when he was at Brentford calling him something like the most laid-back player around and he was the same off the pitch as well so not sure why people are surprised about his demeanour on the pitch.
Not sure you can compare someone like Henry with Sawyers though, totally different levels.
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Not saying it shouldn't stop him. He's always been a laid back player, Sky even did a feature on him when he was at Brentford calling him something like the most laid-back player around and he was the same off the pitch as well so not sure why people are surprised about his demeanour on the pitch.
Not sure you can compare someone like Henry with Sawyers though, totally different levels.
Paul warhurst then …
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Paul warhurst then …
Still not the same though, went from the back to the front and then the back.
Sawyers cannot tackle, doesn't seem he ever could so why play him as a defensive midfielder?
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Still not the same though, went from the back to the front and then the back.
Sawyers cannot tackle, doesn't seem he ever could so why play him as a defensive midfielder?
on the face of it he seems an odd signing unless Bilic thought his laid back approach would be suited to a quarter back type role?
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The 'fan' Simon Silwood, banged up for 8 weeks, and £1200 fines, to add to his lifetime ban! Good, sends a clear message out, racism will not be tolerated.
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The 'fan' Simon Silwood, banged up for 8 weeks, and £1200 fines, to add to his lifetime ban! Good, sends a clear message out, racism will not be tolerated.
Good, a good strong clear message to anyone else who thinks it is acceptable to do this.
What a buffoon.......
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The 'fan' Simon Silwood, banged up for 8 weeks, and £1200 fines, to add to his lifetime ban! Good, sends a clear message out, racism will not be tolerated.
Brain of Britain Mr Silwood obviously. Idiot!
Something more does need to be done about online abuse. I mean varying opinions is fine and even someone getting a bit frustrated and labelling someone a xxxx, again OK but some of the stuff is just toxic and downright nasty.
I'm all for freedom of speech and freedom of views even if I absolutely disagree with them but adults do have a responsibility to act as such and recognise that being horrible and hurtful isn't acceptable.
Had Mr Silwood held his hands up and said sorry I'd be much more charitable but clearly lying and trying to blame a spell checker thing shows no acceptance of his wrong doing.
Some people need to grow up.
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As Silwood was being taken down the cells, a woman in the public gallery described the sentence as "disgusting" and shouted: "He's an innocent man."
-Thomas Parkes E&S
Embarrassing, how anyone could literally shout their support is puzzling.
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Statement from Romaine Sawyers on O/S:
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/statement-romaine-sawyers
West Bromwich Albion Football Club welcomes the eight-week custodial sentence issued to a supporter earlier today for the racial abuse of Romaine Sawyers in January 2021.
The Club immediately banned the individual for life following his conviction on Thursday, September 9.
Romaine has issued the following statement:
“I welcome the custodial sentence today issued to Simon Silwood and I am now focused on putting this incident behind me.
“Racial abuse towards anyone, in any circumstance, is totally unacceptable, and I hope this case will serve as a deterrent to others.
“This is an incident that has affected me deeply, but I would like to encourage fellow players to report all racial abuse to the police. We must together stand strong in order to rid the game, and wider society, of this hideous behaviour.
“It is widely accepted that social media companies must do more to stop the publication of racism on their platforms. I again urge them to take the necessary action required to prevent anyone from receiving the abuse I experienced.
“I would like to thank PC Stuart Ward and Ian Skidmore of West Bromwich Albion for their tireless support and professionalism during what has been a difficult eight months for me personally. I would also like to applaud the Baggies fan who bravely came forward to report what they had seen. It is important we all remain vigilant in the fight against racism, so please, if you are aware of racism, it is essential you report it.
“It is important to me to turn this negative experience into something positive and I will, therefore, donate the £500 awarded to me as compensation to a local West Midlands charity.â€
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::) Wonder who Romaine was supporting tonight ??
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Michael O'Neill and Steve Bruce, this morning, have spoken of Romaine Sawyers. He's set to play his first game in almost three months for Stoke tomorrow. He's out of contract but Albion have the option to extend. #wba
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Rather have Romaine playing in our midfield over any of the midfielders we have now. Whichever way you see him. Would improve us don’t be scared to say it 🤣
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Anyone know if there's a recall option for Sawyers between now and May?
I would play him in a 4-2-3-1.
2 stoppers in front of the back four (probably Mowatt & Molumby). Sawyers further advanced, flanked by Diangana and Robinson, with Carroll as sole striker.
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Anyone know if there's a recall option for Sawyers between now and May?
I would play him in a 4-2-3-1.
2 stoppers in front of the back four (probably Mowatt & Molumby). Sawyers further advanced, flanked by Diangana and Robinson, with Carroll as sole striker.
Not sure, but I would have thought that option would have lapsed in the January transfer window
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Would just be another mediocre mid table championship player, albeit a suppose it will be for a mediocre mid table championship team
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Michael O'Neill and Steve Bruce, this morning, have spoken of Romaine Sawyers. He's set to play his first game in almost three months for Stoke tomorrow. He's out of contract but Albion have the option to extend. #wba
Which no doubt we will take up because we never, ever learn.
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Can't tackle, not quick, can keep possession, can give some probing passes* - possibly front man of the diamond but limited to that position.
* some on here don't understand that long probing passes are more risky and prone to be intercepted - especially against the packed defences that we have come up against this season.
Too many incomplete passes was what was thrown at RS when last in a Baggies shirt. Some midfielders can get very good completion stats by passing sideways and backwards but that's not going to inflict any damage on the opposition. That's why the recruiting team must look at smarter and more comprehensive stats.
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Would just be another mediocre mid table championship player, albeit a suppose it will be for a mediocre mid table championship team
I'm not going to say he's the answer but I'd gladly start him over the dross we have right now.
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Can't tackle, not quick, can keep possession, can give some probing passes* - possibly front man of the diamond but limited to that position.
* some on here don't understand that long probing passes are more risky and prone to be intercepted - especially against the packed defences that we have come up against this season.
Too many incomplete passes was what was thrown at RS when last in a Baggies shirt. Some midfielders can get very good completion stats by passing sideways and backwards but that's not going to inflict any damage on the opposition. That's why the recruiting team must look at smarter and more comprehensive stats.
I thought the main criticism of Sawyers was that most of his passes were "safe" and sideways, and that he didn't apply himself well when not on the ball?
Not saying I agree, but I don't remember much criticism for him trying things and them not coming off, but rather him being a part of a midfield that struggled to control games in the Premier League and back end of the Championship.
I don't know of you've heard of "Packing" stats, but they're quite useful when it comes to this kind of thing
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We never utilized Sawyers as a CAM which has been his prefered position throughout his career. Maybe his tendency to not pass forwards is because of his insecurity of playing as a DM. As said he doesn't tackle either because thats not his playstyle. He would be the CAM in my starting XI.
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I thought the main criticism of Sawyers was that most of his passes were "safe" and sideways, and that he didn't apply himself well when not on the ball?
Not saying I agree, but I don't remember much criticism for him trying things and them not coming off, but rather him being a part of a midfield that struggled to control games in the Premier League and back end of the Championship.
I don't know of you've heard of "Packing" stats, but they're quite useful when it comes to this kind of thing
I'd never heard of "Packing Stats", but just looked it up & it looks as though it puts a conditional & grading element to the stat, changing it from 2D to 3D.
I could see why it would be really useful in decision making.
Allegedly Thomas Tuchel is a big fan.
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Sawyers is a playmaker played in a balanced midfield with forwards providing good movement ahead of him he would be an asset. However we don't have that nor do we have a coach who has any sort of clue.
I like Sawyers he would be better off out of here.
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Scored a really good goal for the clayheads last night.......
Just saying.... ;)
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I like Sawyers too. We have worse right here.
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Should certainly be part of the squad next season - think he walks into the team as the most advanced of a central 3, but if we are to stick with just two centre mids then he’s more of a rotation piece.
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Sawyers is one of the older brigade we need to be getting rid of. Move him on at the end of the season.
We can't call for squad refreshness then want to retain players like Sawyers.
We've been guilty of retaining players for too long. We should be learning lessons.
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He's out of contract, isn't he?
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He's out of contract, isn't he?
Yes.
30 years old. Be a mistake to offer him a new deal.
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I think we have a 12 month option. Sawyers could be a real asset in the right tactical set up but I don't think Bruce is that sort of coach, as such I think it is probably better for all concerned to call it quits at the end of this season. This causes me great sadness because he was criminally misused and as such has become an unfairly maligned player. I wish him well
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If there is an option we should exercise it, we won't get much better for the champ next year, and we are fairly well stocked with more defensive players. IMHO.
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We should absolutely keep Sawyers, better than all of out current midfielders whuch is not hard granted
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Not good enough, what we want another midfielder who has no pace and doesn’t score we have plenty of them at club.
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He might be decent on the ball but as a midfielder his work rate is horrible.
Not willing to press or tackle, always try to escape from duels.
We should not exercise the option.
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Shouldn’t be an option, the guy can’t run. Great on the ball, just doesn’t fit in with any of our other midfielders who unfortunately will still be here next season.
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My thought process is;
Reach or sawyers? Sawyers
Molumby or Sawyers? Sawyers
Mowatt or Sawyers? Sawyers
Sawyers ain't amazing but he's better those who replaced him which is the same for Sam Field.
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Totally misused at Albion. I was delighted when we signed him. If we had the right manager he would be like a new signing next season.
It's a KEEP from me with the caveat of needing a new manager.
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My thought process is;
Reach or sawyers? Sawyers
Molumby or Sawyers? Sawyers
Mowatt or Sawyers? Sawyers
Sawyers ain't amazing but he's better those who replaced him which is the same for Sam Field.
my thinking would be none of the above as they have all been pish poor in Albion shirt, need midfielder’s with pace and physicality and can get into opponents box.
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My thought process is;
Reach or sawyers? Sawyers
Molumby or Sawyers? Sawyers
Mowatt or Sawyers? Sawyers
Sawyers ain't amazing but he's better those who replaced him which is the same for Sam Field.
Why we let field go under allardyce with an option to buy is beyond me. Allardyce wasn’t going to stay if we went down so should have had no input into the next season.
In regards to those players, I’d get rid of all of them. Unfortunately 3 are on long term contracts with us, sawyers is not.
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Totally misused at Albion. I was delighted when we signed him. If we had the right manager he would be like a new signing next season.
It's a KEEP from me with the caveat of needing a new manager.
Agreed. When he signed in 2019, the consensus was he one of the best no.8's or no.10's in the Championship. He was then played increasingly deeper over those first 18 months, in the vain hope he'd turn into Pirlo.
Bilic did some good things at Albion but the Sawyers experiment was a failure.
I'd like him back next season if used correctly. It's the kind of low-risk move the club are likely to make and I'd support it IF he is joined by 2 more central midfield additions and the plan is to use him as a more attack-minded, creative player.
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If I remember rightly Thomas Frank and maybe Dean Smith before him started using Sawyers in a deeper role at Brentford, it wasn't some Bilic experiment.
Sawyers played well while the team energy levels were up under Bilic, linking things together. I guess he needs movement around and in front of him. Post lockdown during the Bilic slump his form went, players weren't making themselves available for the ball any more which didn't suit him as he wasn't a launch it forward merchant.
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Bruce is right when he says we need a younger, more vibrant squad. There is no place for immobile, ageing players like Sawyers.
Hopefully the club have learned past lessons.
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Bruce is right when he says we need a younger, more vibrant squad. There is no place for immobile, ageing players like Sawyers.
Hopefully the club have learned past lessons.
We also need a squad not tied down on fat, lengthy contracts. We need players with a desire to win not just turn up and get paid and i'm alright because i'm already a multi-millionaire.
We also need Lai gone for real change to come.
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I think we should have kept hold of Sawyer's last summer then alternated the midfield between him, Livermore, Mulumby and Mowatt and TGH.
Has we done this we may have been in a better position to not automatically trigger options on Livermore and Mulumby's contracts as they could have all been used sparingly. We could have then been in a position this summer to have room for 3 new midfielders.
As it stands if we keep Sawyers then there is no room for any new midfielders knowing full well we need more dynamic players in there.
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Sawyers fits the mould of the midfielder we already have. Waiting for Val to return for Mowatt as he has disappointed me all season - he certainly has not matched the description of what we were signing - just like most of our signings.
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As ever with all current discussions about us, there is uncertainty and contention. The Club has to have a mission and a strategy and has to stop knee jerking. We are in dangerous waters and we need to keep afloat, have a long term plan and stick to it. From the outside it looks like we have nothing in the pipe.
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Rightly or wrongly Sawyers had a traumatic end to his spell with us. He's also 30+ and on a wage that was relevant a couple of years ago, but certainly not now in the Championship. So for me, we must move almost anyone of the old guard we can (and that includes Sawyers) and get younger players on lower wages.
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Rightly or wrongly Sawyers had a traumatic end to his spell with us. He's also 30+ and on a wage that was relevant a couple of years ago, but certainly not now in the Championship. So for me, we must move almost anyone of the old guard we can (and that includes Sawyers) and get younger players on lower wages.
Get all the old guard out.
We should be looking at the end of Sawyers, Livermore, Phillips and Bartley next month but nope. All extended/triggered extensions possibly. People in charge are absolutely clueless. Lai deserves every single penny he's lost here. Sadly it's at the club's expense.
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With “no where near good enoughâ€Bruce in charge he’s a shoe in for a contract extension as he looks good on paper.
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Get all the old guard out.
We should be looking at the end of Sawyers, Livermore, Phillips and Bartley next month but nope. All extended/triggered extensions possibly. People in charge are absolutely clueless. Lai deserves every single penny he's lost here. Sadly it's at the club's expense.
That's the sad thing. Senior pros just turning up for a guaranteed pay day.
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This lads career here tells you everything that you need to know about the mis-management of this club in recent times
Signed from Brentford "one of the standout players at Griffin Park this season with his touch and passing range impressing many".[31] He was voted Players' Player of the Year by the Brentford squad and was also named as Community Player of the Year."
Manager Slaven Bilić said that "we targeted him as a player who will raise the quality in our midfield" and gave him a £2.9M contract
2 years later Allardyce loans him to Stoke
Less than a year later Steve Bruce admires him & wants him back with a rumoured new contract on offer
Yes he is laid back and yes he isnt a DMF in anyway, shape or form, but WBA have totally mis-managed this asset and no-one could be surprised if we sign him back up and then Bruce goes (viz Ismael and Dyke) leaving us and the lad in a dilemma again.
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From the signing announcement
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/july/sawyers-comes-home-to-albion/
We have an option for an additional 12 months so he can play for us next season without a contract extension. This would obviously leave him as a free agent 2023 but frankly as 31 old year we aren't passing up much value by the way of a fee.
Discussions with the player I guess would revolve around what Bruce's plans were for him. I would love to see him in an advanced playmaker role but to be honest it is not something I particularly associate with Bruce with.
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This lads career here tells you everything that you need to know about the mis-management of this club in recent times
Signed from Brentford "one of the standout players at Griffin Park this season with his touch and passing range impressing many".[31] He was voted Players' Player of the Year by the Brentford squad and was also named as Community Player of the Year."
Manager Slaven Bilić said that "we targeted him as a player who will raise the quality in our midfield" and gave him a £2.9M contract
2 years later Allardyce loans him to Stoke
Less than a year later Steve Bruce admires him & wants him back with a rumoured new contract on offer
Yes he is laid back and yes he isnt a DMF in anyway, shape or form, but WBA have totally mis-managed this asset and no-one could be surprised if we sign him back up and then Bruce goes (viz Ismael and Dyke) leaving us and the lad in a dilemma again.
For one of the chosen few who can accurately spell Albiooon I 'm surprised you didn't know that it was VI not SA who loaned RS to Stoke.
Just saying loike.
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He hasn't nailed down a starting position at bottom half Stoke City this season and while on the whole Stoke fans seem to like him, I'd have a concern about how much he raises the quality of our midfield. We are obliged to sign Molumby next season, already have Mowatt and will be destined to play Livermore as an automatic starter until he is 40. There is logic to keeping Sawyers on for a year as he might add something our other midfielders don't in advanced positions but are we not just in danger of adding yet another mid table level player to our rotation?
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The argument for Sawyers is this he improves the one thing that the current midfield does incredibly poorly i.e. pass the ball and retain possession. The tactical decision is a simple one. It hinges on what style Bruce wants the more possession heavy it is the more inclined he should be to take up the option that the club has
(https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/july/sawyers-comes-home-to-albion/)
It costs a wage to improve the midfield in one very important regard. However the one proviso is that if you want Sawyers in a playmaker role you have to structure the rest of the team in a way to maximise the benefits and that in my view can be achieved in a number of ways.
In a deep lying role in a 3-1-4-2 or as an 8 in a 4-3-3 or maybe in advanced playmaker in a 4-3-1-2. The 2nd striker has to be the creative 10 in all of those formations.
As with any signing it should only happen if the head coach can explain with clarity how it works with the current squad and any other proposed signings. Never again do we collect 4 players that want to play wide left in the space of two windows that hobble the squad for anything up to 4 seasons.
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Never again do we collect 4 players that want to play wide left in the space of two windows that hobble the squad for anything up to 4 seasons.
Wanna bet? This is the Albion we're talking about. Not exactly known for taking on "lessons learned".
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Yes I know I should have said "we should" but the point being it really can't be the footballing fetishes of the manager that shape the squad long after they have probably moved on. Too frequently the randomness of some of the recruitment/retention decisions demonstrates a real lack of tactical clarity.
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I just find it incredulous that any discussion is going on regarding Sawyers returning to the club.
He wasn't good enough three years ago to play for us.
He's lazy, slow, lacks awareness, can't tackle, head a ball, shoot or score. Apart from that he's brilliant.
Apparently he also refuses to follow advice re training methods and diet.
Let him go for heavens sake.
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Yet in the promotion season under Bilic, before the lockdown, there were discussions on nationwide media about who is better - him or Kalvin Phillips.
The whole team then came back off form. Deployed correctly at this level he offers things our current players do not, he was just totally misused and he wasn’t good enough in the Prem but we aren’t in the Prem, we’re in a Championship fight next season.
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I just find it incredulous that any discussion is going on regarding Sawyers returning to the club.
He wasn't good enough three years ago to play for us.
He's lazy, slow, lacks awareness, can't tackle, head a ball, shoot or score. Apart from that he's brilliant.
Apparently he also refuses to follow advice re training methods and diet.
Let him go for heavens sake.
But on the plus side - he’s local. Steve Bruce likes that in a player!
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I just find it incredulous that any discussion is going on regarding Sawyers returning to the club.
He wasn't good enough three years ago to play for us.
He's lazy, slow, lacks awareness, can't tackle, head a ball, shoot or score. Apart from that he's brilliant.
Apparently he also refuses to follow advice re training methods and diet.
Let him go for heavens sake.
I'm with you mate, think it's absolute insanity. It's like how many times do the club need to get their fingers burned before they stop sticking them in a fire?
Wake up, learn your lessons.
It's Albion all over though. You just watch us keep him.
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Yet in the promotion season under Bilic, before the lockdown, there were discussions on nationwide media about who is better - him or Kalvin Phillips.
The whole team then came back off form. Deployed correctly at this level he offers things our current players do not, he was just totally misused and he wasn’t good enough in the Prem but we aren’t in the Prem, we’re in a Championship fight next season.
I don't doubt your word but I honestly don't recall these nationwide media discussions over the merits of Sawyers v Phillips. I can only imagine it was click bait drivel. They're completely different players with different skill sets so comparisons should only be drawn over the merits of their respective roles rather than their abilities.
As for Romaine's form post lockdown his form and effectiveness had dipped prior to that. He was being played too deep and his lack of mobility was exposed. In fact although he still had good games I don't think he was the same following his sending off and subsequent ban.
Don't get me wrong, he can pick a pass and has attributes but Pirlo he is not. Extending his contract depends on a number of factors for me. How Bruce or whomever sets us up moving forward, who comes in to provide the legs around him and whether he's ever going to wake up to the advice re training and diet.
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Yet in the promotion season under Bilic, before the lockdown, there were discussions on nationwide media about who is better - him or Kalvin Phillips.
The whole team then came back off form. Deployed correctly at this level he offers things our current players do not, he was just totally misused and he wasn’t good enough in the Prem but we aren’t in the Prem, we’re in a Championship fight next season.
I do remember that.
I do find it strange that we are happy to condemn yet another Albion player as useless. With the exception of TGH the whole of our midfield has been bobbins all season. I am not sure what some are expecting but they will not be replaced en masse in the close season. RS is a decent Championship player, and that is where we will be next year [and for the foreseeable by the looks of it]. Personally I would be happy to see him back for one more season.
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I do remember that.
I do find it strange that we are happy to condemn yet another Albion player as useless. With the exception of TGH the whole of our midfield has been bobbins all season. I am not sure what some are expecting but they will not be replaced en masse in the close season. RS is a decent Championship player, and that is where we will be next year [and for the foreseeable by the looks of it]. Personally I would be happy to see him back for one more season.
He is. I wouldn't want him to still be on the books should we gain promotion next season though. One year extension/clause trigger at the very most for me. While I'd prefer younger and better it depends on what the options beyond Romaine actually pan out to be.
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Not that it matters now but…
I wonder how we would have got on this season if we kept Sawyers and Snodgrass. Surely we would have done better than where we are now.
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Not that it matters now but…
I wonder how we would have got on this season if we kept Sawyers and Snodgrass. Surely we would have done better than where we are now.
doubt it, Sawyers hasn't pulled up any trees at Stoke (i know he was injured for a significant amount but still) and Snodgrass hasnt managed a full game's worth of minutes at Luton yet, hes a squad filler at best.
i get the reasoning but it's straw-clutching at best.
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I don't doubt your word but I honestly don't recall these nationwide media discussions over the merits of Sawyers v Phillips. I can only imagine it was click bait drivel. They're completely different players with different skill sets so comparisons should only be drawn over the merits of their respective roles rather than their abilities.
As for Romaine's form post lockdown his form and effectiveness had dipped prior to that. He was being played too deep and his lack of mobility was exposed. In fact although he still had good games I don't think he was the same following his sending off and subsequent ban.
Don't get me wrong, he can pick a pass and has attributes but Pirlo he is not. Extending his contract depends on a number of factors for me. How Bruce or whomever sets us up moving forward, who comes in to provide the legs around him and whether he's ever going to wake up to the advice re training and diet.
Yeah there was some talk on Sky Sports Podcasts and Talk Sport.
In all likelihood he’s probably only worse since then and if we’re doling out deals to Button and Carroll then perhaps we should say goodbye here…
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Not that it matters now but…
I wonder how we would have got on this season if we kept Sawyers and Snodgrass. Surely we would have done better than where we are now.
If we played Louis Armstrong and Stevie Wonder we would be better then we are now.
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If we played Louis Armstrong and Stevie Wonder we would be better then we are now.
Can't see it myself.
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Yeah there was some talk on Sky Sports Podcasts and Talk Sport.
In all likelihood he’s probably only worse since then and if we’re doling out deals to Button and Carroll then perhaps we should say goodbye here…
When I think about it I believe Kalvin Phillips was being compared to Pereira, not Sawyers.
One of our players was definitely in the comparison but I don’t think it was Sawyers
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Sorry no thank you, we already have enough garage in midfield thank you.
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Romaine Sawyers is Championship Zidane and Stoke City must hope West Brom sanction transfer
https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/stoke-west-brom-romaine-sawyers-7019139
Personally, l wouldn’t take up any option
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Steve Madeley tweeted
Romaine Sawyers is a free agent after Albion decided not to activate their one-year option on his contract. Sad to see his homecoming end anticlimactically after such a promising start but not hugely surprising news.
Can’t say that I’m disappointed with this decision
Thank you for your service Romaine and good luck in the future
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Misused in all honesty. Was delighted when we resigned him but he is older now and I hope it’s a sign that we are bringing in youth in midfield.
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Good decision.
Finally, maybe, just maybe this club is starting to run properly.
He's 31 in November. That alone is reason to release him. As a general rule (there are always odd exceptions), we should not be offering new deals to anyone over the age of thirty.
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Good decision.
Finally, maybe, just maybe this club is starting to run properly.
He's 31 in November. That alone is reason to release him. As a general rule (there are always odd exceptions), we should not be offering new deals to anyone over the age of thirty.
Agreed. I have no problem with this.
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No problem with this either. Just didn't work out for one reason or another. All the best Romaine
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I’m no fan of Sawyers at all and if so the correct decision .
Time to wait for the meltdown when someone of the like of Hourihane rocks up .
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One of our own but sensible for club not to take up option, good luck Romaine.
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Good decision.
Finally, maybe, just maybe this club is starting to run properly.
He's 31 in November. That alone is reason to release him. As a general rule (there are always odd exceptions), we should not be offering new deals to anyone over the age of thirty.
Gmac😛
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Gmac😛
He's 42, but we could do worse
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Happy with this decision, especially if the club is serious about reducing average age.
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On balance probably the right decision. However the midfield can't pass water and is really poor at retaining possession. Both of these short comings Sawyers would have improved in the right set up. However Bruce isn't going down that route so it is far better to get a player in who he might be able to use than keep one who he won't.
I am sorry to see Sawyers go and wish him all the best for the rest of his career.
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Hope he can find a home - presume Stoke will be interested. All the best to him. Shame it never really worked out for him here.
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Absolutely fine with this decision, average footballer, can pass well enough but that is about your lot with him. We need to be moving in a different direction and making the right noises with decisions like this.
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It looks like I'm in the minority.
He can't tackle, but he can pass the ball well, and that's what we missed this season. If (and I think it's a big "if") we do bring in a creative, passing, midfielder in the summer, then whoever it is would need an understudy at least, and there's no way we're going to be able to buy two players of that type. We had one already and have waved him goodbye. Seems a silly, short-sighted, decision, to me.
Oh wait, this is Albion we're talking about. Pretty standard, then.
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Happy with this decision, especially if the club is serious about reducing average age.
So we release Sawyers, aged 31. Then I see reports we are interested in signing Hourihane, aged 31.
Looks like a bit of Albion logic there !!
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So we release Sawyers, aged 31. Then I see reports we are interested in signing Hourihane, aged 31.
Looks like a bit of Albion logic there !!
You are the one believing rumours. Year after year there are loads of clickbait internet rumours that turn out to be absolute cobblers and year after year people get sucked in by them. I've seen nothing whatsoever from any credible source that confirms we have any interest in signing Hourihane. So why use Hourihane as a stick to beat the club with?
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I think it’s the right decision. Not in any way trying to be dismissive but I don’t think he’s good enough if we’re hoping to climb from being a mid-table Championship team.
But the challenge now is to bring in better, not downgrade even further.
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So we release Sawyers, aged 31. Then I see reports we are interested in signing Hourihane, aged 31.
Looks like a bit of Albion logic there !!
Of course, if we sign Hourihane it completely defecates all over any good done by the Sawyers decision. Have to pray it is just speculation without substance
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I understand the logic that he could be a cheaper squad option, he is a reasonable back up, but he is nothing more than a decent mid table Championship player and we have too many of them on our books already. We will be signing a few central midfielders this summer and all of them need to be relegating the current crop to the subs bench, so this is the right call.
Sawyers is a good player and he will probably pop up at a Blackburn, Milwall, Sunderland or Preston, but that is about his level.
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Of course, if we sign Hourihane it completely defecates all over any good done by the Sawyers decision. Have to pray it is just speculation without substance
Here we go again . One of our fan base taking against a player before he’s even signed and most certainly before he’s anywhere near kicking a ball for us !
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Here we go again . One of our fan base taking against a player before he’s even signed and most certainly before he’s anywhere near kicking a ball for us !
While I'm not getting too worried at this stage (it's probably just a rumour), it's a perfectly reasonable comment. It isn't "taking against a player before he's kicked a ball", it's pointing out the obvious that he is 31 and has been deemed surplus to requirements at a side who finished 5th place last season. He was also the weak link for many Villa fans in their midfield that contained Grealish and McGinn.
Critiquing a clubs transfer business is fair game, it isn't waging a campaign of hate or picking on players.
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Here we go again . One of our fan base taking against a player before he’s even signed and most certainly before he’s anywhere near kicking a ball for us !
Blimey…overreaction/10.
He’s just not very good, sorry to be the one to break it to you. He would be an awful use of wages, not that this is an unfamiliar concept with our squad
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No issue with sawyers going. We give too many contracts to old duffers. We still got Phillips bartley Livermore etc on the books...
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You are the one believing rumours. Year after year there are loads of clickbait internet rumours that turn out to be absolute cobblers and year after year people get sucked in by them. I've seen nothing whatsoever from any credible source that confirms we have any interest in signing Hourihane. So why use Hourihane as a stick to beat the club with?
Rumours startout being rumours then some of them become fact. This is typical of the sort of business that Albion will do in the summer. Bruce going back to previous clubs and players he knows regardless of age.
We should be looking at gems in lower divisions that we can get for next to nothing, who want to play for us. Players who can replace the likes of Sawyers. Not over 30's who have seen better days. Take a look at some of the teams that have made the playoffs and see where some of there players have come from. I can't see Bruce going to the lower leagues to get fresh talent because he is not educated with lower league football and there is the fact that Bruce is the wrong person for this job.
Going back to Hourihane lets just see what materialises !!
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Rumours startout being rumours then some of them become fact. This is typical of the sort of business that Albion will do in the summer. Bruce going back to previous clubs and players he knows regardless of age.
We should be looking at gems in lower divisions that we can get for next to nothing, who want to play for us. Players who can replace the likes of Sawyers. Not over 30's who have seen better days. Take a look at some of the teams that have made the playoffs and see where some of there players have come from. I can't see Bruce going to the lower leagues to get fresh talent because he is not educated with lower league football and there is the fact that Bruce is the wrong person for this job.
Going back to Hourihane lets just see what materialises !!
Masi states Albion have no interest in Hourihane.
There you go!
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Masi states Albion have no interest in Hourihane.
There you go!
I hope he's right. BUT the transfer window is not even open yet and a lot can happen, so just because Masi says they have no interest doesn't mean to say nothing can happen.
To be perfectly honest I don't care if he comes or not because there are far too many things wrong at Albion and until they sort them out they will get no more of my money. The way I see it a mid table finish will be an achievement next season !
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I'm in agreement with the decision to let him go, very average player who slows the tempo down to much.
We have problems with most areas of squad but I think the midfield must be where we spend a good deal of our resources, been a massive problem for a few years and Pereira slightly papered over the cracks for a few years.
Im hoping Dike and Grant can provide us with enough goals and we have enough defenders to do ok IMO.
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Always a slow motion player, who embodied the name Strollers. Get rid.
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Another in a list of players who were scouted playing one way and tasked to play in another once signed. Good eye for a pass lacking the industry to make the most of his abilities. Right signing at the right time and ultimately used the wrong way. He won't be getting any better. Should have been moved on once we were promoted.
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Another in a list of players who were scouted playing one way and tasked to play in another once signed. Good eye for a pass lacking the industry to make the most of his abilities. Right signing at the right time and ultimately used the wrong way. He won't be getting any better. Should have been moved on once we were promoted.
I agree with this. I'd also add that many players can adapt to certain styles/managers, whereas Sawyers was very one dimensional. Not our worst signing ever by a long shot but not the player some made him out to be either.
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Confimed he has gone.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/albion-announce-202122-retained-and-released-lists
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Confimed he has gone.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/albion-announce-202122-retained-and-released-lists
Would have liked to see more names on that list. Phillips, Bartley and Livermore but hey ho.
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Would have liked to see more names on that list. Phillips, Bartley and Livermore but hey ho.
They are under contract they can't just be released without paying up their contracts. If the club want to move them on they will be looking at fees. If it comes to a point where they consider paying up contracts (for any contracted player) it will be at the end of the window when they know they can't get a fee for them. Business is business.
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They are under contract they can't just be released without paying up their contracts. If the club want to move them on they will be looking at fees. If it comes to a point where they consider paying up contracts (for any contracted player) it will be at the end of the window when they know they can't get a fee for them. Business is business.
My point was more the stupidity of the club giving them extensions (Phillips and Bartley) for no reason and Dynamite Dowling offering Livermore a 4+1 at the age of 28.
We should be wishiig the old boys off with best wishes now, not struggling to sign new players due to the old crew hogging a lot of wages between them
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My point was more the stupidity of the club giving them extensions (Phillips and Bartley) for no reason and Dynamite Dowling offering Livermore a 4+1 at the age of 28.
We should be wishiig the old boys off with best wishes now, not struggling to sign new players due to the old crew hogging a lot of wages between them
True enough but that was the old regime. The guys running the club now can only deal with situations they are left with.
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True enough but that was the old regime. The guys running the club now can only deal with situations they are left with.
Agreed. I'm not having a pop at new crew (yet). I'm just wishing the old boys were gone. We would be in such a better place
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Would have liked to see more names on that list. Phillips, Bartley and Livermore but hey ho.
All of those, especially Phillips, are looking quite a way behind them to their best days. If they can move, so much the better. Though I suspect at least two of them will still be here next season.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned the revenue and enthusiasm drain that is Kenneth Zohore. Literally no one, in his unstellar Baggies career to date, neither coaches nor fans nor commentators, have seen anything in him that warrants game time. So it was with a sinking feeling I heard Bruce name him as one of the main strikers for next season. Top of my to go list.
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Zohore can sod off an all. Should never have been signed.
Can't see any of Bartley, Livermore being shifted due to the amounts we pay them unless someone offers them mutli year deals.
Phillips with another 2 full seasons ahead of him yet. Good grief
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Seen alot of people complaining that there arent more names on the list. Those on the list are those out of contract and for me those decisions are right. Sawyers and Carrol have past their best years and will want decent money. Regarding Johnstone ive never been a fan and ive said before his best form came behind closed doors without the pressures of a crowd behind him. I really do believe he crumbles under pressure and ive seen very few keepers that make the defence look so terrified and nervy in front of them than he does. Good luck to them all with their future careers but the club are right on all Three. I havent seen any of the younger lads play so couldnt possibly comment.
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Just read this about Romaine.
Romaine Sawyers’ 2019/20 promotion winning season with WBA in numbers:
•42 games played 📝
•4026 mins played â±
•2476 accurate passes 🎯
•60 successful dribbles 💫
•134 interceptions 🧹
•1 goal 🥅
•1 assist 🎨
1 assist from a central midfielder shows exactly why he is not required now.
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Just read this about Romaine.
Romaine Sawyers’ 2019/20 promotion winning season with WBA in numbers:
•42 games played 📝
•4026 mins played â±
•2476 accurate passes 🎯
•60 successful dribbles 💫
•134 interceptions 🧹
•1 goal 🥅
•1 assist 🎨
1 assist from a central midfielder shows exactly why he is not required now.
Whilst I won’t get into too much of a debate about the G/A of players, this post shows an utter disregard to the system we played under Bilic and more so the way Sawyers was part of that system.
He was a deep lying playmaker. The man to spread it wide, give it the MP etc.
That role, in the same way somebody like Jorginho or Kroos have done fantastically is never going to get amazing G/A.
Their stats are more based on passes, passes forward, attempts to take the ball etc. sawyers was top class at this for the first 2/3 of the promotion season then tailed off and subsequently never found his form again.
That first 6 months should never be forgotten in that sense, was easily the best ball playing CM in the league for that period.
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Whilst I won’t get into too much of a debate about the G/A of players, this post shows an utter disregard to the system we played under Bilic and more so the way Sawyers was part of that system.
He was a deep lying playmaker. The man to spread it wide, give it the MP etc.
That role, in the same way somebody like Jorginho or Kroos have done fantastically is never going to get amazing G/A.
Their stats are more based on passes, passes forward, attempts to take the ball etc. sawyers was top class at this for the first 2/3 of the promotion season then tailed off and subsequently never found his form again.
That first 6 months should never be forgotten in that sense, was easily the best ball playing CM in the league for that period.
Glad someone said it. Sawyers, when we were playing well, used his passing to find Pereira between the lines, so no, he didn't get the assist, but he may have the the pass before the assist.
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Glad someone said it. Sawyers, when we were playing well, used his passing to find Pereira between the lines, so no, he didn't get the assist, but he may have the the pass before the assist.
Have to agree with yourself and Ashdoy previously. I don't know if it was a confidence issue or what but he never found his mojo again after that promising first 6 months. But, he was very very good in his role during that opening two thirds of the season under Bilic.
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Whilst I won’t get into too much of a debate about the G/A of players, this post shows an utter disregard to the system we played under Bilic and more so the way Sawyers was part of that system.
He was a deep lying playmaker. The man to spread it wide, give it the MP etc.
That role, in the same way somebody like Jorginho or Kroos have done fantastically is never going to get amazing G/A.
Their stats are more based on passes, passes forward, attempts to take the ball etc. sawyers was top class at this for the first 2/3 of the promotion season then tailed off and subsequently never found his form again.
That first 6 months should never be forgotten in that sense, was easily the best ball playing CM in the league for that period.
You make a number of good points. However, although good at passing between the lines and picking out the likes of Pereira, for me he shouldn't have been tasked to do it from so deep.
He's no Pirlo yet he sat deeper and deeper as the season progressed and it was no coincidence he was getting closed down more often. In turn the forward through balls from the earlier part of the season were replaced by more balls sideways and backwards to retain possession which slowed build up play.
Personally don't think he ever looked quite the same or as happy with his game from the Bristol City sending off in the February. I'd love to know what it was his former teammate (whose name escapes me) said to spark him off given he's generally quite laid back.
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Noticed that Mings also chews away like crazy with green gum like Romaine does. Wonder what the gum is? Spearmint Super Bazooka??
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Noticed that Mings also chews away like crazy with green gum like Romaine does. Wonder what the gum is? Spearmint Super Bazooka??
Going by his laidback-ness I'm guessing Romaine favours chewing gum made by Euphoria.
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Going by his laidback-ness I'm guessing Romaine favours chewing gum made by Euphoria.
Don't know why but I genuinely thought you were going to reference Khat leaves then. And then I also thought there's not a chance in hell Romaine's on stimulants during games ;D .
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Nasturtium leaves with a soupcon of fennel pollen, you lot need to eat in better establishments
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Sad to see it the end it did really - he deserved better being one of us.
Why Bilic thought it was appropriate to enter a Premier League season with Sawyers as our deepest midfielder is beyond me. It left both him and us criminally exposed and he never recovered from that.
He was excellent though under Bilic up until the first lockdown - really did enable us to get the best of Diangana and Pereira with his ability to play through the opposition.
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Outgoing West Brom star Romaine Sawyers closing in on permanent Stoke City move – but sales must come first
https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2022/06/25/outgoing-west-brom-star-romaine-sawyers-closing-in-on-permanent-stoke-city-move-but-sales-must-come-first/
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Good luck to him but no qualms about him being released.
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Should have kept him in my opinion
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Personally I would have kept Sawyers but he is no more a Bruce player than an Ismael one so what is the actual point?
Interesting that Stoke need to move players off the wage bill before they complete a free transfer. This can only be an FFP issue because as far as I'm aware the Coates family are happy to bankroll the club. I can't help wonder how many £5 accumulators that club have eaten to be a Championship side.
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I would have kept Sawyers and I can't believe this to be true, surely... (in bold)
Bruce said: “Of course there was a decision to make and he was the other one we let go to make way for others."
“I hadn’t seen him, but it was a decision you have to make."
“I have to live with it, stand by it, that’s my job. The kid’s a good player, though, I know that.â€
https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2022/08/17/west-brom-manager-bruce-reveals-why-he-released-romaine-sawyers/
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I would have kept Sawyers and I can't believe this to be true, surely... (in bold)
Bruce said: “Of course there was a decision to make and he was the other one we let go to make way for others."
“I hadn’t seen him, but it was a decision you have to make."
“I have to live with it, stand by it, that’s my job. The kid’s a good player, though, I know that.â€
https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2022/08/17/west-brom-manager-bruce-reveals-why-he-released-romaine-sawyers/
the article also refers to Bruce as 'the Scottish manager' so I'd take it with a pinch of salt.
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the article also refers to Bruce as 'the Scottish manager' so I'd take it with a pinch of salt.
Wow! I did not see that :)
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the article also refers to Bruce as 'the Scottish manager' so I'd take it with a pinch of salt.
:P :P :P ........ westbromnews strikes again.